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1 • Neptune (by linuxista on 2018-04-16 00:25:29 GMT from United States) |
Originally I was somewhat intrigued, but the Neptune website says: We will no longer strive to bring in more recent versions of Plasma, Kernel or other software on our own. With Snaps, Flatpaks and AppImages being more and more popular and mature these days we strongly believe these are the ways to go if you want to try out bleeding edge software. We on the other hand strive to provide the most stable and best Desktop user experience out there.
So now I don't get the purpose of this distro. You get plasma installed by default and maybe a few settings or themes? At first I thought this was a project meant to fill a big hole in Debian's offerings for desktop users, i.e. a snapshot more current than Stable that's maintained for the purpose of working for end users. Then it appears their distro specific backports repo only includes plasma, chrome and libreoffice (I think). And then this announcement that it's just Debian Stable and telling users to use snaps or flatpacks or whatnot. Really puzzled as to what possible niche this distro could be serving.
Debian really needs to fork Testing into a real distro.
2 • Neptune (by Sherlock on 2018-04-16 01:28:46 GMT from Canada)
I have been running Buster+Plasma 5.12.4 for almost 3 months. Surprisingly very solid, responsive and fast. Interested ... want to check it out ... click here to download
BusterKDE has become my daily driver. This distro works so well with my Brother multi-functional printer. DCP-7060D. Kudos to the Debian testing team.
3 • @2 Buster/Testing (by linuxista on 2018-04-16 02:20:16 GMT from United States)
No thanks. If I had to run one of Debian's unsupported dev repos, I'd just use Sid. At least I would get more timely upstream fixes and security updates. That's why Debian needs to turn Testing into a real distro.
4 • Debian testing team (by olaf on 2018-04-16 02:43:18 GMT from United States)
Isn't Testing generated automatically from Unstable? Meaning, there is no "Debian Testing Team".
5 • Dormant and discontinued projects (by Bob on 2018-04-16 02:54:50 GMT from United States)
Well done! That page looks great.
And, you were right. "We hope it will offer long-time readers with a trip down memory lane." I spent a few moments on the CrunchBang page. I really miss that distro.
6 • LTS Poll (by Andy Figueroa on 2018-04-16 03:20:52 GMT from United States)
In the LTS poll, there is an overlap between:
At least 5 years: and
Between 5-10 years:
To be interpreted meaningfully, those two items should be combined.
7 • @5 by Bob (by frisbee on 2018-04-16 04:59:43 GMT from Switzerland)
No need to miss CrunchBang Linux except for it's name. ;)
CrunchBang is still alive but -- it got renamed.
You can find it here:
8 • LTS Poll (by Alexandru on 2018-04-16 08:11:57 GMT from Romania)
The exact support term should depend on the OS purpose, on the hardware it is ought to be installed and also other factors.
For embedded systems, where the hardware is not changed for years, but whose operation is of high importance and which need to be always up-to-date, the support term is expected to be very high, maybe over 10 years.
For servers, which are upgraded from time to time, the support for exactly the same release is not as important, because most likely new version of OS is installed together with the hardware upgrade. So in this domain 5 years is usually sufficient.
For office systems, this term can be 3 years or so. Home users are usually happy without long term support at all, because they install new version of OS every 6 months.
Another option to consider is the cost of maintenance. It is obvious that the longer is offered support the harder is its implementation. So a good business model is to offer standard LTS support (say, 5 years) for one price and extended LTS support (e.g. 10 years) for higher price for the same version of OS.
9 • @5 Me too :( (by Drango on 2018-04-16 08:39:35 GMT from Sweden)
I miss Crunchbang so much, the completion of it all. Ah well - times change I guess
10 • @5 @9 (by Tuxie on 2018-04-16 09:31:32 GMT from Switzerland)
Guys, did you try Archlabs? I know, I know, there are many differencies but authors fell in love with Crunchbang + Bunsen Labs later on --> and their product is still familiar to me.
11 • LTS (by Dxvid on 2018-04-16 10:53:26 GMT from Sweden)
For a desktop 3+ years might be considered LTS, older than that you miss out on new features, but a few might want 5-10 years.
For a server 5 or 8 years might be considered LTS, but a few might want 10+ years. The purpose is often for things to run with the highest stability and security. But in all honesty things get old and there's often advantages in making a distro upgrade every 1-3 years to get performance improvements bug fixes and new features, especially if you're serving a public website running it on a 5+ years old distro isn't optimal. I rarely run things on distro versions older than 2,5 years even if there's LTS of 5 or 8-10 years. After a while you need so many community repos to be able to keep performance up and use new features that there's simply no advantage in running on an old distro version. If a site runs wordpress I often tend to do a distro upgrade once per year as wordpress often takes advantage of new features very quickly.
For a car 15 years might be suitable for LTS.
For an industrial robot maybe 10-20 years might be considered LTS.
For an airplane, a helicopter or a satellite 20 years might not be enough to call a distro LTS, maybe you need 40 years?
12 • Neptune (by John on 2018-04-16 12:43:11 GMT from Canada)
Happy to see your review of Neptune here. I only recently found this distro and thought I'd try it out. It's by far my favorite design (visually) for a KDE desktop. Very smooth. I've only been using it so far on an older laptop I use in my living room for a multi-media centre, but it works perfectly for playing my music, streaming, Spotify and other basic stuff. Am about to try it out on my main laptop and see how that goes.
13 • Dormant and discontinued distros (by jotatb on 2018-04-16 12:55:00 GMT from Brazil)
I miss Kalango Linux a lot! Loved that Brazilian distro!!!!
14 • Dormant and just gone... (by Jordan on 2018-04-16 12:57:59 GMT from United States)
Oh my goodness.. Yoper.. BLAG (their site: blagblagblag.org)..
Great to have that list (and the links).
15 • LTS (by Jessica on 2018-04-16 14:18:21 GMT from United States)
I think that it depends on if we talk about home or servers. For home users they don't update there computers any more so I think at least 7 years of support. Why seven and not five? It is because five is two short as we see with Ubuntu. Ubuntu has many bugs that never get fixed like the sleep wifi bug. You know the one that kills the interface and makes you reset after your laptop goes to sleep and you cant get wifi working. This no longer happens on broadcom chips like in the 14.04 branch, how ever it still happens on intel chips on the 16.04 branch. Even with 5 years of support they don't fix bugs. With seven it means that the Ubuntu devs have to make updates.
Also I mean full support and not the crap Ubuntu does now. For those who don't know you don't get 5 years of support and updates. You only get two years of updates, 3 years of patches, and 5 years of commmunity updates. That means out of every LTS you only get 3 years of real updates. If you have 7 it means you get the full 5 years of updates and patches.
Now for servers it should be at least be 10 years. Companies just don't update there servers much if at all. Even if they get new servers they still want to be able to run there old distro. You do this by making point updates. There is a market for this. You can see that with Solaris sales still going. Orical would have shut down Solaris, but legaly can not do so do to goverment contracts. The US government and others around the world don't like upgrading hardware. They want an OS that will run for 30 years and all they have to do is add more ZFS drives to the SAN pool. They don't want to waste money on hardware when they could use it on bribes.
16 • Corel LinuxOS (by Carney3 on 2018-04-16 14:20:36 GMT from United States)
I miss this project. Sold at retail, it added a lot of credibility to Linux with its high-end packaging. Bundling with Netscape and WordPerfect Office (back when they were relevant) was also excellent.
17 • Crunchbang (by OstroL on 2018-04-16 14:22:31 GMT from Poland)
"CrunchBang is still alive but -- it got renamed."
If at all, it is Crunchbang++ or even Monara, but the Bunsenlabs is not the same, even though it might think it is.
18 • LTS (by Matt on 2018-04-16 15:56:37 GMT from United States)
I won't complain while I am not paying anything for support. The support is a gift that I am happy to receive for as long as someone is willing to give it.
19 • @15 (by Ravi on 2018-04-16 18:34:44 GMT from India)
"They don't want to waste money on hardware when they could use it on bribes."
This one is Universal
Have seen governments giving el-cheapo laptops for students with MS windows on it rather than giving a good quality laptop with linux on it.
20 • LTS (by Justin on 2018-04-17 21:20:44 GMT from United States)
@15: I've found bugs in Mint that were fixed in the next release of Debian, but since it wasn't the "latest" Mint (still supposedly supported), those bugs never came in. It's quite annoying. I've resorted to downloading the updated Debian package and manually installing, but this is limited and not recommended as general practice.
I also agree with 7+ years. I know people that don't upgrade; they just buy a new machine when the old one wears out. I did that with XP, which I ran for 11+ years. I didn't need newer features, but I do need security fixes, so when that support stopped, I finally moved on to Linux.
21 • Neptune 5 (by tuxuser on 2018-04-18 01:10:41 GMT from Canada)
I used Neptune in the past. There were some problem here and there but the project was still young but promising.
When Neptune release 5 was released, I tested and installed it because I liked the project. Good choice of software, based on KDE Plasma, the multimedia is excellent.
After a few weeks of use, I stopped using it. Not because of Neptune, only because KDE. Plasma's too slow! Launching an application is frustratingly slow. I'm no longer able to use such slow desktop environments.
But for those who love KDE Plasma, Neptune is an excellent choice based on Debian. Neptune is a serious project, built by competent people.
Congrat Neptune Team
22 • LTS 5/10 years (by Hilbert on 2018-04-18 04:03:25 GMT from Belgium)
LTS for enterprises or professional use should be 10 years for the obvious reasons, which are stability and a clear snapshot of all versions (libs, frameworks, kernels)
For home users 5 years will be fine in it's current form. Longer would stagnate development, which might hinder a lot of things. I mostly think about newer hardware and game support.
Perhaps a good alternative would be Servicepacks ( like MS did in the past) that would have more dramatic upgrades to a certain LTS version.
23 • LTS (by Jim on 2018-04-18 10:25:02 GMT from United States)
I think 6 years of support with 3 years of overlap would be great. That would mean a new LTS version every 3 years. You could go 10 years of support with a 5 year overlap also. That would give you a chance to upgrade sooner if you wanted too, but go the distance if you loved a release.
24 • LTS opinion (by Garon on 2018-04-18 19:04:38 GMT from United States)
With me I always run Ubuntu LTS releases. They have proven to be stable with few problems. That will always be the case when you do proper updates. Server systems, 7 years. A stable system without missing out on improvements.
25 • LTS - what is actually supported (by George on 2018-04-18 19:38:00 GMT from United States)
Hats off to Ubuntu and Mint for their efforts to provide user-friendly secure operating systems that inexpert users can use for years without having to reinstall. However, they face difficult problems.
While many of us assume that the phrase "long term support" means that we have software that is actively supported, the actual level of support and security of software included in an LTS release varies considerably. Some software is not supported for long periods - common software such as GIMP, Synaptic, and VLC. (I personally have no expertise/knowledge of the support of these softwares but am relying upon posts to the Mint forum where assertions were never contradicted).
PPAs may or may not meet a concerned user's expectations with regard to security.
The process of upgrading from one release to another may or may not be user-friendly.
The Distrowatch community is ambivalent about support periods. For example, the review of MX doesn't tell us about support period. The MX people don't indicate the End of Life on their page here. The review does say that MX is based upon Debian Stable, Stretch, but no End of Life is listed for Stretch on the Debian page here. The DW poll indicates that the readers here are generally in favor of long support periods but judging by the few posts here, the feelings are not strong.
IMO, developers in the open source community who actively push for long support periods deserve some kind of special recognition. They're running up hill.
26 • Long Term Support (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-04-18 19:54:05 GMT from United States)
I use a rolling release PCLinuxOS64.
Now this is truly long term support
until some third party decides to change
a major component as KDE did when
it forced us to move from Plasma 4.14.18 to
Now I voted for 5-10 year support but
I think if the user(s) which may be significant
wants to pay for support as with Red Hat
Enterprise Linux, RoboLinux and some
others that they must be supported as
long as they are paying for the coders
to provide them with compatible updates.
As for Linux Kernels the distribution coders
from my PCLinux effort keeps us pretty much
up-to-date[Linux bliss.localbox 4.15.16-pclos1
#1 SMP]. I also see long term support
kernels in the Synaptic search box but i am
interested in the changes so I take the
latest of the greatest kernel to be published
freely. When I had to work on Ubuntu boxes
I was surprised by the difference in kernel
numbers and the same with Debian from
which Canonical takes it source codes.
I find Ubuntu almost incomprehensible
in the way it does things but if it suits the
users who am I to take umbrage.
Anyhow I joined a Usenet news group
alt.os.linux.ubuntu to learn more about the
system and users, I am sorry I did. Maybe
I can find Ubuntu for Dummies or Idiots.
to learn the things I need to know to tell
people who barely understand what a
virtual terminal is....
27 • @25 - MX and LTS (by Hoos on 2018-04-19 09:09:17 GMT from Singapore)
In the case of MX Linux, I think your assumptions that people don't have strong feelings about LTS may be off.
The MX forum is essentially the former Mepis-lovers' forum, and they have been around for a long time, supporting Mepis/SimplyMEPIS and now, MX Linux. That's a long track record, which users might be aware of. I'm guessing some users are attracted to MX for that reason.
They are still supporting Mepis 12 Beta, the last version of Mepis released by Warren Woodford. And it's not even a final OS release.
MX14 and Mepis 12 are both based on Wheezy, which is 2 Debian releases back from the current Stretch. So security updates from Debian LTS volunteers will cease in May. But I suspect if you had issues with these 2 after the EOL date, you would still be able to get some help, albeit limited, in the forum.
28 • distro LTS and some apps (by Jordan on 2018-04-19 12:57:10 GMT from United States)
No matter the distro I'm messing with, I always look for a few things such as GIMP, VLC, Neverball(putt), etc.
Sometimes they're there and sometimes not, but LTS distro or not I always find those and many other apps in the repos or online somewhere and they all end up in my distro, whether it's Arch based, independent, or Debian based.
So, unless I crave different apps and packages than many others in the linux community, I do not see the angst about long term support, with the notable exception of security.
29 • Regarding KDE's System Settings, mentioned in Jesse's review (by eco2geek on 2018-04-20 01:32:46 GMT from United States)
If you don't like the new "Sidebar View" (I don't either), you can change it. As with most things in KDE, System Settings is configurable.
Most people who've used KDE are probably most familiar with Icon View, which has been around for a while. And there's a third setting, Tree View.
You can also turn on or off tooltips which show you what's "under" each main setting.
>> "This time around I found Amarok loaded and ran quickly and did not
>> cause any headaches."
You obviously need to turn your volume up, then! :-P
30 • Neptune - no longer useful (by curious on 2018-04-20 14:51:06 GMT from Germany)
"... we stopped officially supporting proprietary graphics card drivers. We removed the support for easy installing them ..."
Then I don't see why I should bother with this operating system.
Thanks to the Neptune devs for removing their distro from my list.
31 • Opinion Poll (by Corentin on 2018-04-22 22:40:15 GMT from France)
20+ years for me
Number of Comments: 31
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