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1 • Canonical, systemd, the future of Linux (by Alexandre Dumas on 2018-02-19 00:23:55 GMT from Australia)
"Canonical is ... collect[ing] hardware information and send it over a secure connection to Canonical's developers."
Canonical continues to model its business model on the other personal-information-collecting tech giants. This combined with the move in the Linux world away from basic UNIX principles (eg. systemd) - it is sad what is happening to Linux.
2 • Unofficial software (by DaveW on 2018-02-19 00:31:48 GMT from United States)
I prefer to use a third-party PPA. but occasionally there isn't one. Then I follow whatever recipe the website has for my distro. If there is no recipe, then I don't really need the software.
3 • #1 (by jadecat on 2018-02-19 01:01:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thankfully not all distro's are data grabbers and non-unix followers.
4 • Canonical, systemd, the future of Linux (by Alexandre Dumas on 2018-02-19 01:45:09 GMT from Australia)
#3 You are correct, jadecat, but distros such as Slackware, Gentoo, CRUX, Void, Alpine (who have I missed?), these are not mainstream. Many users new to Linux use one of the shrink-wrapped Debian/Ubuntu or RedHat derivatives. How long will the true believers be able to hold out against the big money and bloatware cancers?
Sorry, I am not trying to be negative, I am looking for good news! Tell me that I am wrong please...
5 • Canonical, systemd, the future of Linux (by Steve Akers on 2018-02-19 02:09:54 GMT from United States)
#4 > MX Linux is now providing a very attractive distro for Ubuntu refugees. Debian 9 Stable base with current software versions from MX and Debian backport repos, ready-to-go out of the box with all the software most people need already installed, and a fine XFCE desktop setup to boot. Although not a lightweight distro, it only eats about 300MB after boot up and is super fast and responsive!
6 • Packaging (by fritz becker on 2018-02-19 03:06:56 GMT from United States)
I voted "appimage", because that's what I prefer. From there, I'll probably look for a snap -- if that's not an option, than I'll probably compile it myself. (How willing I am to compile things all depends on how many dependencies the thing has.)
7 • Popcon? Really? (by albinard on 2018-02-19 03:30:59 GMT from United States)
If you read along in the mailing list thread, you'll see "enable popcon to periodically report lists of installed packages". So the reporting goes on presumably for the life of the installation, unless you uncheck the box.
Who asked for this - the NSA?
8 • Software not from a distro's official repositories (by TheTKS on 2018-02-19 04:57:13 GMT from Canada)
Have used Slackbuilds, PPA (Kubuntu), AppImages, Snaps, Flatpak, other packages from author's sites ex. Qcad installer *.run file
9 • Canonical wanting to collect hardware information (by TheTKS on 2018-02-19 05:14:09 GMT from Canada)
If done right, this could help Canonical make the *buntus more compatible with our machines and focus their development on the software most in demand. From what I gather, this is nothing like the Amazon thing.
Claims are that data would be anonomized, they wouldn't store IP addresses, and files containing data (saved on your drive) would be available for you to look over.
I could live with this. It won't stop me from using Xubuntu and Kubuntu.
But it should not be enabled by default in my opinion, and I'm not entirely comfortable with an application (Popcon) being installed to track your package usage, although how else would they do this?
10 • Canonical is exploring the idea of collecting hardware information (by frisbee on 2018-02-19 05:25:44 GMT from Switzerland)
“Canonical is exploring the idea of adding an option to the Ubuntu system installer which would allow the operating system to collect hardware information and send it over a secure connection to Canonical's developers.”
1. Everybody is happy when their computer “just works”
2. Developers have limited resources, many working for little or no money
3. Most people today expect, that they simply plug in the USB and install without issues
If a company collects HARDWARE data, then everybody cries: “Data stealing”, “Data collectors” ...
If a company does not collect any HW data, everybody cries (because the systems are not working) ...
If a company tries to make a system more professional / include some paid software, everybody cries ...
If a company does not include any extras and paid software, everybody cries (“... BUT there is no software”)...
1. Most Linux users “take care about security and privacy issues” and complain endlessly, but same time, they are using Google (+, Mail, Maps, Chrome), Facebook, WhatsApp, DropBox, Skype, Amazon, ...
2. Most Linux users don't want to donate their labour / free time, don't want to donate Hardware, don't want to donate money, don't want to donate HW data, don't want to donate ...
3. Most Linux users cry: this doesn't work, that doesn't work, there is no this or that software, there is no “Photoshop”, there is no “MS Office”, there is no ...
What am I missing here?
The HW data collecting is necessary if someone expects a “Plug 'n' Play Operating Systems” that will “just work” on any HW you throw it on!
11 • "Everybody Complains" (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2018-02-19 06:25:53 GMT from United States)
@10 …
Sure, (nearly) everybody complains. But they don't all make the same complaint(s). Different people have different preferences. Choice happens.
For some, that may exercise rarely-used grey cells … which may hurt at first.
…
What's being missed? Standards. As contrasted with vendor pranks. Consider how generally successful ethernet circuitry has been - a good example of plug'n'play that works. Then ask why vendors continue to churn out products that seem to show a loathing of standardization. Collecting after-sale data shouldn't be necessary. A different kernel for every SoC shouldn't be necessary. Demand better.
12 • Software not from a distro's official repositories (by jg on 2018-02-19 07:33:47 GMT from United States)
I download and install packages from https://pkgs.org/ (Debian .deb, Slackware .txz, and Redhat .rpm packages)
13 • interesting that DietPi provides an x86 build (by tim on 2018-02-19 07:45:20 GMT from United States)
That's pretty slick! Which other distributions provide both an ARM and an x86 version?
14 • Opinion poll - Packaging (by Chris Whelan on 2018-02-19 07:49:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
I voted other because where something I want is not available, I contact the developers of the distro I use (MX Linux), and where possible they will make it available in the repositories.
If that can't be done, I cross my fingers and download a .deb!
15 • Creating your own distribution (by debianxfce on 2018-02-19 08:45:52 GMT from Finland)
To #13 and others, it easy to make your own Debian based distribution for the x86 architecture with the simple-cdd software, see Debian wiki. It is relatively easy to make your distribution for ARM devices, see armbian documentation.
16 • Small Distros (by John on 2018-02-19 09:45:32 GMT from United States)
HI All,
I am glad to see some attention being paid to small distros.
We are certainly in a world of gross overbloat.
2GB to run a browser??? What happened to Dr. Dobbs?
How about a stand alone system that is useable.
John - NH USA
17 • #4 (by jadecat on 2018-02-19 10:53:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
Proof, as if it's needed, that the majority isn't always right.
18 • Anyone tried DietPi on an old netbook? (by Uncle Slacky on 2018-02-19 11:13:07 GMT from France)
I might give it a try on my old Asus EEE 701 4G - looks like it should fit comfortably on the internal 4Gb SSD with room left over. Previously I've been restricted to antiX, Void or Q4OS if I wanted to avoid using up the SD slot with a card with a larger distro installed.
19 • @13 - Which other distributions provide both an ARM and an x86 version (by P.R. on 2018-02-19 11:26:04 GMT from Germany)
Void linux provides the same distro for all those archs, even with two different libc implementations:
x86_64
i686
armv5
armv6
armv7
arm-64 (aka aarch64)
mips
So you can run the same distro on your router, your RaspberryPi and you old latop, new laptop, server as well on certain tablet if you like.
While enjoying the simplicity and the security of runit and libressl.
You're welcome.
20 • Packages (by Pat Huff on 2018-02-19 11:38:23 GMT from United States)
I always enjoy looking at the various distros and am always grateful for those who put them all together. Being just a basic user I generally stick with whatever packages are included which is usually plenty for me. I have a dozen or so unemployed older machines that I put to work testing new Linux's. BTW,ever since I've been on the internet I've always felt that someone was looking over my shoulder so I don't mind the data-probing that goes on and am happy to help make the distros better at least in some small way. Keep up the good work all you developers and many thanks.
21 • Poll: (by dragonmouth on 2018-02-19 12:55:33 GMT from United States)
Other. With 10s of thousands of packages available in the repositories of most distros, I don't have any need to obtain software from third parties no matter which distro I use.
22 • Opinion Poll (by Kevin on 2018-02-19 13:43:36 GMT from United States)
There was an option missing from the poll, so I had to select other. If I'm running a distro that's easy to create packages for, like Arch or Slackware, I create a package and install it using the distro's package manager. Otherwise I build from source.
23 • Other (by Trihexagonal on 2018-02-19 13:50:52 GMT from United States)
I build 3rd party programs from the ports tree with FreeBSD and on OpenBSD use pkg with the official repository.
I use the same programs all the time and am happy with what's available.
24 • Poll (by bushpilot on 2018-02-19 14:42:42 GMT from Canada)
I use other apps like skype and a deb file for Libreoffice with Debian, with great success. Other than these two instances, I get everything from the Debian repository.
25 • 10 • Canonical is exploring the idea of collecting hardware information... (by verndog on 2018-02-19 15:17:28 GMT from United States)
@risbee,
Great post. I couldn't agree more. Some people just complain.
If something is being acquired, they think their security is being stolen.
26 • Poll (by tuxedoar on 2018-02-19 15:25:37 GMT from Argentina)
I rarely install packages from non official repositories but when I need to, I choose to do it on a VM or some kind of isolated environment. Having said that, my preferred choices, in order of preferece, when a software is not available on official repositories (Debian repos, in my case), would be the following:
1) Compile and install from sources.
2) Install from non-official repositories.
Cheers!.
27 • Getting software not in a distro's official repositories (by Mauro on 2018-02-19 15:27:11 GMT from Argentina)
Running Debian Stable (Stretch), I depend on the stretch-backports and I add Google (Chrome), Spotify and VirtualBox repositories. Everything else comes from ./configure; make; make install
28 • Software repositories (by Tim on 2018-02-19 15:28:28 GMT from United States)
My first choice is the Arch AUR. For Fedora, I will use their PPA's. If I can't find something in those places, I usually go to the project's homepage and see if they have a suitable generic Linux download.
29 • Hardware info (by ybolu on 2018-02-19 15:49:22 GMT from Turkey)
I will gladly give my hardware info to Cannonical or to any similar Linux company. I believe this may be useful for disto/software/driver etc developers to do better.
@10 Very well said. I agree.
30 • Plasma Mobile (by OstroL on 2018-02-19 16:29:59 GMT from Poland)
You can download the Plasma Mobile iso here, http://images.plasma-mobile.org/iso/
31 • Getting software (by David on 2018-02-19 16:50:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a CentOS user, I'm used to utilising a lot of repositories! But if all else fails, I'll grab an rpm of roughly the right vintage from anywhere and sort out the dependencies myself.
32 • Canonical's survey (by David on 2018-02-19 16:59:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've just had to struggle to find a usable distro for my old laptop, now that Salix no longer supports the Banias Pentium M. Xubuntu to the rescue! Would I like to keep Canonical aware that machines like mine are still out there? Obviously!
Equally obviously, this will bring out the tin-foil-hat brigade, but who cares? They're probably using Slackware, anyway. I was particularly amused by #4's condemnation of Red Hat and Debian derivatives: they *are* Linux today, and run almost all of the internet. He calls himself a "true believer", but to me belief is just what some people substitute for knowledge.
33 • OpenIndiana; Canonical and data collection (by JWJones on 2018-02-19 18:39:37 GMT from United States)
Good to see OpenIndiana forging ahead and recompiling the userland with an updated GCC; it's nice to have more options in UNIX-land, outside of Linux and the BSDs.
@32 - Nah David, us tin-foil-hats are using OpenBSD or hardened Gentoo. ;)
34 • Canonical's Trust Issues & Unofficial Software (by M.Z. on 2018-02-19 18:44:26 GMT from United States)
To me Canonical's trust issues were primarily related to those spyware 'lenses' that were once stuffed into Unity. They certainly offended me a great deal, but they also hurt their image long term with the larger Linux community. Frankly I don't consider popcon to be anything but beneficial if it's used correctly; however, getting people to trust Canonical on their word after their earlier fiasco is asking a lot especially when you take the wider Linux community into account.
----
On the topic of unofficial software I use a couple of .deb packages on the Debian related distros I use (eg. Vivaldi for when I feel like trying something other than Firefox) & I use some Flatpaks from the new Mint Software Manager. I tried Nix at one point on Mageia, but it didn't really seem to offer many packages that I was interested in & it was more trouble than it was worth for me. I've also used PPAs, but decided that there wasn't a compelling reason to downgrade my security by using them.
Of the setups I use most I do like the point & click easy nature of .deb packages from trusted sources & they can be secure, but I think there is reason to be careful in may cases just like PPAs. On the whole I like the ease, security, & continence of Mint Software + Flatpaks best. They are super easy to use, always up to date, & the default ones come from sources trusted by the Mint team & widely respected. There could be a better selection (lots of software are newer version of whats available in repos) & I'm not sure of what security provisions exist for things beyond flathub. I also think it would be good for Mint to add reviews of Flatpaks in their Software Manager & more version information.
On the whole though, Mint Software Manager + Flatpaks is by far the most attractive & user friendly source of extra software I have ever seen. I think it's currently a a great foundation for the future & with improvements it could easily beat every other option for 3rd party software I have ever tried or seen by a wide margin.
35 • Canonical (by DB on 2018-02-19 18:55:55 GMT from United States)
I hope Canonical will abandon this idea! The information collection by another OS, is the most popular reason I've heard from people for switching to Linux. Now they want to mess that up and start spying on us too? Get a clue Canonical!!!!!!!!!!
36 • "Alien" software (by PhilippE on 2018-02-19 19:24:23 GMT from France)
I have several distros installed on my PC. I use softwares such Firefox, Libreoffice, Calibre or Dropbox from each of them and it's not convenient to perform upgrades for each distro. That's why I install them from the their vendor's web site rather from the official repositories of the different distros I use. All these applications are installed in a /opt directory wich is a symlink to a partition other than /.
37 • Canonical, systemd, the future of Linux (by Alexandre Dumas on 2018-02-19 21:51:54 GMT from Australia)
@33 LOL, how did you know that I use OpenBSD and hardened Gentoo? Admittedly I am an old UNIX greybeard and I hear the same arguments from my children as I hear from @10 and others above.
The argument seems to be that plug-and-play is the most important thing. Having things "just work" is more important than privacy.
I understand your points of view, but being a greybeard I am old enough to remember the civil rights movement and the other struggles us young people (back then) had in the 1960s. Now I fear that all the advances in freedom and civil rights, including privacy, made decades ago are being squandered by a younger generation that has no memory of the society that preceeded the 60s.
Canonical and other big corporations exist to make money for shareholders - fair enough - but if we trust these corporations with our freedoms, privacy, rights, we will lose these things. Canonical in particular has shown that it cannot be trusted - allowing Ubuntu to collect seemingly benign information such as hardware details is just the top of a long, slippery slope.
38 • Debian tracks you too (by imnotrich on 2018-02-19 22:25:57 GMT from Mexico)
Debian tracks the packages you install and other data, too. During the install, you're given the opportunity to opt out.
SO it's not something unique to Ubuntu!
I appreciate how difficult it must be to code distros/drivers which are compatible with all the hardware on the planet, an almost infinite number of combinations. Still, I have a problem with ANY operating system that wants my data regardless if I can opt out or not.
Does this mean Linux is going down the Windows 10 road? Where they collect telemetry about your hardware so they can send you the wrong driver for your video, sound, network and other hardware with the next forced Windows update? Bork your hardware or make it slow down, trying to deceive you into buying new hardware?
Hope not.
Oh wait, Apple does that too.
39 • Getting software not in a distro's official repositories (by FabioLolix on 2018-02-19 22:44:32 GMT from Italy)
When software is missing from official repository I try to package it for the Arch User Repository. One of the last addition is text editor Textilosaurus
40 • Canonical hardware survey... (by tom joad on 2018-02-19 23:08:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
I dunno...
I am ok with it if I am allowed to at will turn all of it off. Even before Snowden pulled back the curtain, I was suspicious of processes working in the 'background.' Post Snowden I am ever more concerned.
Yes, I understand the need to know what kind of hardware is in the 'wild.' That would make it easier for all concerned to have better distros and apps. I like that part.
What I don't like not really knowing what is going on in the background and what kind of info is being collected.
As a user I want a switch or something to absolutely turn all of it off when I want to do that. And NO nag screens, boxes or pop ups. I don't mean having to search processes to 'kill' something or other. I want that turn off switch right out front where I can see it.
41 • Software not from a distro's official repositories (by TheTKS on 2018-02-20 05:11:57 GMT from Canada)
... and continuing from @8, as of tonight also using Alien Bob's Slackbuids
42 • easy to use installers for distros (by mmphosis on 2018-02-20 08:07:00 GMT from Canada)
I've come to Linux from Mac OS X. Originally, I installed Ubuntu because the installer was the easiest to get started with. I know Disk Utility on the Mac. The linux partitions and partion managers freaked me out at first. I've used third-party PPAs but would rather not. I've managed to install Adobe Flash but would rather not, obviously. I've moved on from Ubuntu to Xubuntu and tweaked things using Xfce which is a breath of fresh air from Mac OS X and Unity.
I often build software from source locally, install locally, and remove what I don't need after it is built. For example, I used a font program that needed JRE, so I installed JRE using apt-get, but once I was done using the font program I removed the font program and the JRE because I don't need it anymore. I've removed some of the more obnoxious pieces of software that come with Ubuntu that I simply have no use for. I've removed popularity contest. I've turned of mlocate.db that runs periodically in the background. My biggest concern, which is a small concern compared to other platforms, is when I do a search, the word "canonical" is embedded in the URL: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=x&t=canonical How do I turn that off?!?
I've tried other distros, but keep running back to Xubuntu. There is lots of appeal in other distros: not using systemd, leaner systems, leaner package managers, rolling updates, building from source, building from scratch, but overall the config/package manager/dependency hell seems like an unsolved problem on all platforms not just Linux. There are some great ideas in other distros, but an easy to use installer is what is needed.
43 • @40: (by frisbee on 2018-02-20 08:13:28 GMT from Switzerland)
What is going on in background?
You hook up your computer on HUB and you hook up one more computer to the same HUB to show you all the traffic.
Switch to absolutely disable all data collecting, with no nag screens, boxes and pop ups, without having to search processes to „kill“ and right in front where you can see it?
Well, that‘s diferent from case to case. Every good computer (like my Thinkpads) has a switch to disable the WLAN. Second best way to do it - you take the network card out. The best solution is still the same since many years - you just keep your home internet connection free and geht yourself a typewriter and analog, 8-channel TV.
Cheers!
;)
44 • @42 canonical in search URL (by curious on 2018-02-20 15:27:13 GMT from Germany)
I don't think that should be much of a concern to you. I believe that that is a monetization feature that many open-source projects use (e.g. distros and browser developers). This just means that the project (in this case, canonical) gets paid a small "royalty" from their default search engine provider (duckduckgo) for each search from that project. If you don't agree with that, use another search engine - or manually connect to duckduckgo via your browser.
In short: no information goes from you TO canonical. Just "canonical" goes to the search engine provider.
45 • Various (by gplcoder on 2018-02-20 17:12:05 GMT from Sweden)
DietPI: "slimming things down to the bare essentials", infected with the systemd virus, "I'll retire to bedlam".
I did not get a chance to vote on the advertisements or cryptomining poll last week and my vote is: "none of the above". The internet was originally designed as a information storage depot, free of commercialization and I think we should do whatever it takes to see that this model is dominant. I disagree with the rabid commercialization of the internet along with every web master begging for donations. The internet is a labour of love and should remain that way. I donate much time, money and effort and I have never asked for and will never receive any donations or load my site with commercials.
#3, you missed MX (as #4 pointed out) as well as AntiX, Artix and Devuan
My vote is no telemetry. I am ok with asking up front (with a 'no' default).
46 • @44 canonical in search URL (by mmphosis on 2018-02-20 19:01:56 GMT from Canada)
I appreciate you commenting. It turns out it is not that difficult to manually create a new search engine entry to duckduckgo (or to wherever) without the extra tag in it. Thank you.
47 • 44.46: comical search box (by nano-me on 2018-02-20 19:50:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
44, 46: I find the search box in most browsers to be too small for realistic searchs. A better solution is that I have duckduckgo.com on the bookmarks toolbar [either alone or as the first bookmark in my monster list]. With duckduckgo you can even leave the search string off the URL.
48 • "tagged" browser searches (by tim on 2018-02-20 21:29:31 GMT from United States)
Many folks gripe about Canonical appending tags to browser search engine queries, yet Linux Mint does similar and no one has noticed?
I'm "not okay with it" (tagging) because it amounts to fingerprinting. The presence of the tag also undermines attempting to spoof one's user-agent. I'm also "not okay with" the devs enabling (silently, implicitly) geoip tagging by default and when challenged, claiming "Science tells us {rolleyes}... it's what our users want. Any users who notice, and object, they can edit prefs to opt out. User's selected language, not geoip, should be the signal which steers any conditionally-served content."
Examine the files installed by the (mandatory, thanks to dependencies) Mint "debian-adjustments" package. You'll notice that the Linux Mint devs have gone to great lengths to ensure activation of the tagging mechanism. When user installs an extra browser, e.g. vivaldi, from vendor-supplied debfile, Mint's mechanism STILL intervenes; a dpkg post-install hook watches for new browser installation and overwrites (taints!) the vendor-supplied search engines.
This sort of attempted "monetization" has become rampant (timescale: 5-6 yrs). Ubuntu and mint must have been tickled pink to see myriad "more betterz wallpapers" respins being created and distributed -- further propagating the number of systems laced with their pre-installed monetization hooks. Hilariously (or despicably, depending on your point of view), the browser vendor Mozilla and Google took notice as the number of "monetized" installs propagated and grew, and retaliated. They adding components to perform recurring checks which employed popup scare-tactics notifications worded like "Psst! You wanna 'refresh' your web browser search engines? Malware may have changed the defaults." Toward further stomping out the growing plague(?) of revenue sharing, they re-coded browser updates. With each update, "reset/reinstall vendor-supplied default search engines" became the new normal.
At some point (2014?), when questioned via comment to Linux Mint Blog, Clem Lefevre stated that the to-date cumulative revenue from search partnering was minimal. IIRC, the total amount was less than US$100. Check the timing (I have not done so) -- around the time of the brigading by Ubuntu users, Mint further "buried" their embedded monetization hooks. Initially packaged as "mint-search-enhancer", Mint moved the functionality into the speciously named "debian-adjustments" package. All that effort (and risk of undermining user trust) toward chasing $100 chump change?
49 • No Free Lunch, even for 'Pi's (by Kragle on 2018-02-20 22:24:36 GMT from United States)
The commercial success of the Raspberry Pi was not anticipated, but does demonstrate the power of Freed Open-Source Software with support, as the surve of imitators, clones and better-thans demonstrates. How powerfully would Freed Open Hardware affect the market?
…
The internet was never cost-free; it was initially developed at taxpayer expense. Early service providers passed generous parts of their revenues downstream in hopes of generating profitable markets. Current market conditions have moved on. In a competitive market, prices are dynamically negotiated. In balkanized fiefdoms of monopolies, not so much.
Moochers and leeches carping about web services wheedling for support will find sympathy diminishes as economies are squeezed for efficiency
….
Sharing is generally accepted as good - usually - but not for diseases.
Discrimination is generally accepted as bad - usually - but not for criminals.
…
Freedom isn't free. It's freed, always at a cost. And priceless.
50 • Technology and the loss of freedom (by Landrew on 2018-02-21 07:07:24 GMT from Canada)
I came to Linux a few years back from the Windows world because of the privacy issues I began to notice manifesting, and it seems 'here we go again' the same privacy issues are slowly creeping into Linux.
Now, I am not ancient by an sense, though I am old enough to have witnessed the beginnings of the silicon/technological age give birth.... and I will tell you this much, It was not a random haphazard occurrence or accidental discovery.
Living in a small town, where folk were intune with nature, intune with themselves and intune with their inner thoughts, it was easy for me to 'see' a change begin. How to describe it, well, I guess you could say it was like a dark toxic cloud that descended from the sky onto a few major citys around the world. Slowly, ever so slowly so as not to be noticed, it began to oozed out from the windows of a few dark buildings, onto the sidewalks and roadways, spreading ever outward, like a mist that did not diminish.
Imperceivable it was to most, as it over took folks moving about lost in their day to day routines. As it flowed over them, they would stiffen upright for a moment (do you remember your moment?) as a cold shiver ran down their spine as the colors and warmth of life seemed to diminish into shades of grey. A few had the 'sight' to see what was coming, and fled before it...crying as they ran out of the citys that an evil has come down upon us.
Far, far out into the countrysides these few fled and made such abodes as was possible with what little they were able or willing to bring along with them in short notice.
From distant hillocks one could stand and view this dark mist spreading outward in the citys, consuming the souls and minds of those it touched...and onward it flowed.
There is an intelligence in that mist, an intelligence aware of humanity and completely despising it. How it found this world, I know not, yet I believe it was called forth from another realm by fools of greed...thinking it to be a force they could control to enrich themselves and their familys.
Oh yes, at the very first it appeared to be the case, as riches beyond imagination came pouring in... yet too late it was when they discovered what they brought down was not an ancient force to manipulate but a dark living entity. They were the first to be consumed and enslaved under its power from which these men of influence were turned against one another and against their fellow man.
They were directed to begin a campaign to bring about the complete subjugation of the human race, secretly guiding everyone into a dark world where complete slavery of the mind from birth is the norm.
Imagine a world where you live in a constant nightmare brought about by mandatory brain implants.
Every thought, watched and turned against you.
This is what awaits everyone down this road we all are so eagerly embracing called technology.
Few are still sane enough to see far down this road that we are on...but I ask you all to Stop what you are doing, really put aside all your preconceived happy notions of where you hope technology with take us...and actually Look where this is all heading.
Anything that is created for good, is immediately twisted and ways found to use against us. That in itself should enough to stop and wonder....from wench this comes.
I know its hard to break away from the televisions programming, or the sports, or religions, or cellphones, tablets, cameras, videos, social medias, politics, drones et al...
These 'distractions' have been given to us 'on purpose' to keep us ever so busy, while the global prison cell of technology is quietly setup.
The only way to avoid the darkness that is coming, is for everyone to drop technology....now, completely.
Everything, Immediately, and Completely.
Now !
I will tell you this much , if we succeed in turning our backs on technology and say No More!, the evil that has been manipulating things in the background for so long will come forth. It will try and turn man against man using lies...as always has been the case and wage a world war so great against humanity that no person it hopes, will be left alive...while at the same time, the chosen ones who have sold their minds and souls completely to this evil, will blast off in ships to conquer other peaceful worlds.
You are already witnessing the testing stages of this plan, and they invite you to watch, Live !
Fools !
One last battle I say...but at least a chance, though a slim chance.
But right now as things stand, we are all walking with heads bent, faces lit by the corpse light of our phones, walking blindly in step towards a horror so great, words can not even begin to describe it.
I wish this was all just a science fiction story......yet layed out before you, I hope you begin to see what I can see.
If there be war...Let No Man Harm Another who is Unarmed.
51 • @ 48 browser searches (by Morton on 2018-02-21 12:08:46 GMT from Ukraine)
> "All that effort (and risk of undermining user trust) toward chasing $100 chump change?"
-- While we are on someone else's money, I hope your donation to Mint is comparable with that amount.
Why to attack the distribution defaults? It less than a minute you can add startpage.com search to your browser, remove or change geoip providers or install another browser, such as privacy oriented Iridium etc etc.
52 • Unofficial Repositories (by Kim on 2018-02-21 12:12:58 GMT from Austria)
Never needed to look for anything else than what is offered at https://software.opensuse.org/search/ . The site searches through official and a myriad of unofficial repositories. If the desired package isn't included in the official repositories someone else will probably have prepared already a suitable one. I tend to think that openSUSE is pretty much underrated these days. While I am not much of a fan of their beloved Tumbleweed (rolling release), the upcoming Leap 15 looks pretty solid and promising to me.
53 • Collecting hardware information (by Jim on 2018-02-21 12:14:08 GMT from United States)
"Canonical is exploring the idea of adding an option to the Ubuntu system installer which would allow the operating system to collect hardware information and send it over a secure connection to Canonical's developers."
If it is an option I have no problem with it. I prefer opt in to opt out, but both are okay as long as I have a choice. While most Linux OS's are free, and most Internet browsers are free, these people still need money and information to develop their systems and software. Now hidden and forced participation are different, but you can vote on those by moving on. Linux is not Microsoft.
54 • Ubuntu data collection (by dragonmouth on 2018-02-21 14:17:44 GMT from United States)
To those who believe that Ubuntu is going to collect data for an altruistic reason of "improving their product" I have just one thing to say - You are being naive. Canonical, just like Microsoft, Apple, Google, et al before them, will collect data to give them a commercial competitive advantage. The data collected will help to spot trends, beat competitors to the market with new gee-whiz features, monetize the data by reselling it.
Did data collection indicate that users wanted Win 10, Metro UI, laptops with minimal number of ports and limited storage space, phones with no headphone jacks, non-removable batteries? On the contrary. Data collection most probably indicated quite the opposite.
Linux developers have done very well so far in developing Linux and Linux apps without collecting reams of data on the hardware and/or software being used in the wild. Slowly but surely Linux id being Window-ized.
55 • Software Outside of Repositories (by Winchester on 2018-02-21 15:25:17 GMT from United States)
I rarely install software outside of official repositories. I have a multi-boot system with several GNU/Linux OS's. I don't really feel the need to have every piece of software which I use to be installed on each of them. Certain software which I use most,sure,but not every program that I use from time to time.
Almost all of the software that I need \ want is in at least one of the repositories of at least one of the OS's.
For example,if I want to use MakeMKV,I will boot into PClinuxOS .... which (by the way) has a good amount of useful software in its repositories.
There are a few exceptions. I installed "Etcher" which is a live USB writer in my Netrunner Debian Version partition. "Wire Desktop Messenger" instead of Skype as well. From .deb packages. I keep the Adobe Flash plug-in on only 2 of the 12 OS installations for the increasingly rare instances when I need to use it.
In general,I keep outside software limited to a couple of the operating systems.
56 • DietPi and AppImage/FlatPak/Snap (by Arghalhuas on 2018-02-21 15:51:23 GMT from Luxembourg)
Thanks for the DietPi review. I downloaded it a month ago to try it on an old netbook but haven't had the time to install it yet. I am glad to know that it is likely to work fine.
The netbook currently runs Funtoo 64-bit, it seems to be too slow for pretty much anything pre-compiled. Funtoo is great but it is kind of high-maintenance, so I will give DietPi a try as soon as possible.
In the poll I see that AppImage and FlatPak/Snap are in different categories, how are they different?
57 • AppImage vs Flatpak/Snap (by Jesse on 2018-02-21 16:14:07 GMT from Canada)
@56 - There are a lot of differences between the portable package formats, but the key difference, in relation to this poll, is that AppImage files are entirely independent. They can be placed on virtually any GNU/Linux system, marked as executable and run. They don't have outside dependencies or controls.
Snaps and Flatpak packages are installed through a package manager and need to have their respective frameworks in place to run. You need to have Flatpak installed to run a Flatpak package. You need to have Snapd installed to install/run a Snap package.
The flip side to this arrangement is AppImages usually need to be found, installed and (sometimes) updated manually while Flatpak and Snap handle package management for you.
We covered more details about all three a while back: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160704#opinion
58 • Search Revenue & Tracking (by M.Z. on 2018-02-21 19:17:09 GMT from United States)
@48
I doubt most users care much about browser ID switching & frankly if your concerned about tracking it seems likely to me that you'd be far better off getting something like Privacy Badger installed. That actually active blocks websites attempting to track you, rather than making your browser look less obscure. And of course you could set tracking protection to always be on in new versions of Firefox. Personally I'd like people to know that I'm both running Linux (which should encourage more support for my platform of choice) & I'm also concerned about privacy.
Also, as #51 indicated, search revenue seems to be the most reasonable way for many projects to make some money & help keep their work going. Even if the revenue is relatively small, it's better than nothing. Also given that those who know how the web works understand that projects like Firefox rely on search revenue, it's far from an unusual imposition to expect the same from Linux Distros.
59 • re: AppImages (by tim on 2018-02-21 23:36:17 GMT from United States)
@57 post contains a few details that are less-than-entirely accurate:
"AppImage files are entirely independent. They can be placed on virtually any GNU/Linux system, marked as executable and run. They don't have outside dependencies or controls."
They absolutely do (or may) have "outside" dependencies. AppImage docs on github shows a list of approx 150 libraries presumed to be present on any base system. Packagers are instructed to NOT bundle a (presumed redundant) copy of the listed libs. Predictably, the list is imperfect. Twice, I've personally encountered an AppImage which was unusable on various debian-derived "claims to be lightweight" distros, unusable until I chased down the missing lib(s) and installed the additional debian packages which provided them. Okay, I'm just explaining that "can be placed on virtually any GNU/Linux system, marked as executable and run" is an unrealized ideal.
"They don't have outside dependencies or controls." It would be accurate to state "by design, AppImage-packaged programs are not sandboxed". I'm wrestling with the term "outside" -- when an AppImage-packaged program runs, it can freely write (overwrite) its config files residing under your home directory. At each startup, the program reads any such config files, if present, and these "outside" config files essentially control, customize, its behavior. @57 maybe was focused on emphasizing "no sandbox" in contrast to the platformed alternatives?
60 • followup to @58 responses (by tim on 2018-02-22 00:19:18 GMT from United States)
@48 presents factual information. The followup spouting truisms like "you can opt out" is lame, is ignorant (uninformed). Try it: knowing it's there, try to weed out the Mint-installed "system addon". With difficultly, its files (and reference within firefox "extensions.bootstrappedAddons" prefkey) can indeed be removed. That's a far cry from "can opt out" so, in rebuttal, at least tell us the magic button to press or tickbox to check to accomplish the feat.
"I doubt most users care much about browser ID switching & frankly if your concerned about tracking it seems likely to me that..."
Apologist drivel (and I should donate to Mint?), and blahblah ignorant opinion and presumption regarding "what most users want". Hello? The issue immediately at hand is: undermining user trust by performing, or facilitating, tracking without obtaining informed consent.
61 • AppImage (by Jesse on 2018-02-22 01:03:44 GMT from Canada)
@59 When I talked about outside controls for AppImages I was talking about having a dedicated package manager/control system. With AppImages one simply downloads and installs them, you don't need/leverage any package manager or framework like you do with Flatpak and Snap. There is not equivalent to snapd or the flatpak binary with AppImage.
Regarding dependencies, yes AppImage itself may rely on some very basic dependencies, which is why I specifically wrote that it can run on "virtually" any GNU/Linux distro, not every GNU/Linux distro. There are some odd or super light distros which are exceptions to almost every rule.
62 • Sabayon Linux. For Packages out of the Official Repos. (by albfneto on 2018-02-22 01:12:25 GMT from Brazil)
Mainly I use Sabayon Linux. Many packages are in the repos of the Official Package Manager, Entropy.
When the package is not found in Entropy repos, I generally use the versions from the Gentoo Repository or their Overlays.
This works, since Sabayon is Gentoo based, and Gentoo compatible.
Sometimes, i compile some packages from their source code.
63 • distros with ARM and x86 versions (@13) (by greenpossum on 2018-02-22 01:38:00 GMT from Australia)
@13 There's a version of Raspbian Pixel for PCs.
64 • Third party repositories (by Sam Crawford on 2018-02-22 03:25:09 GMT from United States)
I run Debian Stretch with the MATE desktop. But I also like Google Chrome, Skype for Linux and Insync (Google drive clone) and these are only available from the respective developer's repositories.
I'm not sure if any of the choices in the survey actually describe this situation.
65 • @54 (by frisbee on 2018-02-22 11:15:48 GMT from Switzerland)
I am asking myself, do you actually understand the difference between data collecting and "data collecting". We are here talking about HW data collecting...
When one Linux doesn't work on some computer, people say -- didn't you inform youself? Why didn't you check the compatibility first?
But how exactly to check the compatibility? Computer MODEL e0000 can come in tens of different configurations ...
HW data collecting and a good HW databank are actualy a must.
We are here talking solely about HW data collecting, something like:
http://wiki.rosalab.ru/en/index.php/Blog:ROSA_Planet/ROSA_hardware_DB_%E2%80%94_the_largest_in_the_world
http://wiki.rosalab.ru/en/index.php/Blog:ROSA_Planet/ROSA_Hardware_DB
http://hw.rosalinux.ru/
66 • kde (by Mac on 2018-02-22 12:34:09 GMT from United States)
HW data collecting and a good HW databank are actualy a must. Yes that is true I can recall chasing down drivers for a lot of things. And I don't understand the problem. But KDE has dolphin not allowed to run as root that to me is telling me what I can and cannot do and that makes me mad, so guess after several years of de kde I will take a look at xfce. So if they want to do something good that is bad and if that tell you how to use your computer that is okay.
Have fun Mack
67 • @66 Dolphin... (by OstroL on 2018-02-22 13:54:29 GMT from Poland)
"But KDE has dolphin not allowed to run as root that to me is telling me what I can and cannot do..."
No, you can break your system, if you want to, only KDE is not letting you use Dolphin to do so. Go to any folder you want, open terminal there, and then open any file you care to play with as root.
68 • @50 Technology (by Bushpilot on 2018-02-22 15:04:09 GMT from Canada)
You have some valid comments that need to be assessed be all of us. Unfortunately, many people are not interested in a philosophical or theological discussion on this web site. Virtual reality is now becoming more interesting than the real. However we can still hope that we will learn something from our present to help is towards a better future. We still have the freedom to choose. Turning off TV and Internet will not work any more than prohibition did. We have to find a way out of this wilderness and there is a WAY.
69 • Same old same old (by Garon on 2018-02-22 16:37:54 GMT from United States)
@54
Surely you're not going to bring up the same dribble I've been hearing for the last 15 years. One of the main pitfalls of Linux has been the all great Linux secret society who wants to give no one any info at all. For many a years people have bitched about no drivers for this and hardware not being linux friendly. The hypocrites cry to these companies to open everything up so we can see what you are making and how it works. Really? You think they should lol. Then we have one linux company who ask for hardware data from IT'S users to try to improve the situation. Now here we go again with unproven accusations that the info will be sold, or used to give someone an unfair advantage in the business world. So what? Sorry but that really isn't any of your business. Only the distro's users. The term "Window-ized" is an old, outdated and really nonsense term. If there are facts to be stated then state them. If not then say nothing and use your distro of choice. I grow tired of the gibberish.
70 • @68 (by Mac on 2018-02-22 18:47:02 GMT from United States)
You got the idea they are telling me what I can not do and that to me just is not the way it should be. Used mepis for years and no one I tried to tell me what I could do and to me that is not right. That is worse than ubuntu and amazon.
Have fun Mack
@69 Very well said!!
71 • @70 (by Mac on 2018-02-22 19:01:44 GMT from United States)
Hay and I put it on the computer so if I break it bet I can do it again. That is a pitiful reason. They took log in as root away for your good, and I bet you like that idea too. If they want all that let them pay for it and we will all be happy. Till then I will do with it as I see fit. Just happened to like kde a lot but that will cause me to change de.
Have fun Mack
72 • Software from outside official repositories (by aguador on 2018-02-22 22:02:25 GMT from Spain)
When using Arch there is the AUR which I would hate to reduce to the level of a ppa. In other cases, when there are big repositories and little need to look outside, two other approaches are to search for packages on a "per package" basis in another repository (e.g., in Fedora's if using Mageia) and/or install the odd java-based program like OmegaT that can but does not need to be packaged.
73 • Realities of Tracking - Be Proactive & Don't Throw FUD (by M.Z. on 2018-02-22 22:53:51 GMT from United States)
@60
" 'I doubt most users care much about browser ID switching...' Apologist drivel"
Actually with a fairly simple search I can confirm that it appears for all the world to be a statistical fact:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=user+agent
There are maybe 100,000 users among the top 6 options in that search & given how many hundreds of millions of web users there are it's not an issue for much of anyone. I'll try to take the high road here in spite of your nasty tone & just say that it's plain to see that what you
describe is a corner case that affects a tiny portion of users. Only a handful of luxury items are built on a tiny portion of the general public & expecting any different is deluded.
Oh & look at this for more numbers over on the right:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/...
As a point of comparison there are about 18.6 million users of the top three add blockers on the the Firefox add-ons site & well over 20 million depending on how you count the top 6 privacy & security add-ons. Let's call it 240:1 in terms of caring about adds & tracking in general vs user agents. I maintain my original statement
was accurate.
"... The issue immediately at hand is: undermining user trust by performing, or facilitating, tracking without obtaining informed consent."
No, the issue is that you are being tracked every step of the way as soon as you start using Google, or for that matter any website that using any ad/tracking service whatsoever. This has absolutely nothing to do with any Linux distro and has been going on for most of the history of the web. It can be circumvented with the tools like Privacy Badger & Firefox tracking protection regardless of what distro you use. Once you start actively blocking as much tracking as possible any profile being built around you weakens & thins out considerably. Whoever your search provider is sharing revenue with is rather incidental & a tiny part of the whole scheme. If you are actually worried about that then you best option is to stick with duck duck go (or perhaps a similar search provider) regardless of your distro, because they have promised not to track you & are in most distros including the one you are ignorantly attacking.
There are tools & methods to actually solve the issue you are complaining about & some of the most effective ones are built directly into the distro you are so ignorantly launching FUD at. Go into your Firefox preferences & set search to duck duck go (yes, it's an option there by default in Mint), then goto 'Tracking & Security' and set tracking protection to 'Always'. The if your crazy about tracking protection like me you can add Privacy Badger & uBlock Origin from the Firefox add-ons site. I see no reason whatsoever to think that the defaults in Mint are any worse than the defaults in Firefox in general & those are the best privacy defaults among any relevant major browsers. The only difference is that your search provider points revenue at your distro instead of just at Firefox. If you have a problem with what your search provider will do with that info, then switch search providers & stop throwing mindless FUD built on minuscule minorities of users.
All that being said I care about on line tracking & think it's gone too far. What we need is thoughtful actions, not ill conceived attacks based on corner cases involving user agents, which may be a familiar thing to most Linux users but are very obscure to average folks. Also let's try to be civil, I'm certainly going out of my way to do so.
74 • I spy with my little eye (by Gentoo Lover on 2018-02-23 04:28:56 GMT from Canada)
It would appear that many of the Emperors guard are out and about trying to silence the crowd, yelling "Move along, nothing to see here"
Whats all the fuss if a few are voicing their opinion that the Emperor appears to be naked? Maybe there is something to it then???
First it was 'trade your freedoms for security',
now it appears to be 'trade your freedoms for ease of use'?
No, thank you.
75 • Real Privacy Issues (by M.Z. on 2018-02-23 22:28:20 GMT from United States)
@74
So what, you want to substitute actually well reasoned arguments with grandiose conspiracy theories? Not exactly a convincing position. When someone stuffs software that tracks what you type into a general off line search for things on your PC through the desktop UI without asking, that is called spyware. That was actual trading of privacy for some minor convenience. It happened in one prominent distro for a while before it was killed & the Unity DE died soon after & I was glad to see the behavior end. What's being complained about no is nothing like that actual harm to user privacy.
For all these claims of an issue no one can explain how the change is substantially different than what was already happening in browser search. The most substantial thing I saw was the proclaimed harm against user who wanted to change their user agent, which for reasons stated above can reasonably say is a tiny portion of users (to correct the typo above about 1:204th of those who block ads & tracking). If you don't want to be tracked while searching changing you search engine is far more effective than playing with your user agent & always an option. Of course if you can think of an actual intelligent reason to think something is worse for a substantial portion of user when search money goes to a distro rather than a browse tell us tell us so we can discuss & decide if it's serious.
76 • reading comments (by Fantomas on 2018-02-23 22:49:18 GMT from France)
Reading D.Watch comments is like reading modern Philosophy Books.
I enjoy it very time. Thank you all and thank you D. Watch.
@ #10. Great Input and even greater comments regarding this subject...
77 • Source, binaries, packages and repos. (by Tommy Trustworthless on 2018-02-24 01:55:18 GMT from Canada)
@ #10
What am I missing here?
The HW data collecting is necessary if someone expects a “Plug 'n' Play Operating Systems” that will “just work” on any HW you throw it on!
What it missed here is Ubuntu in on the way of bankruptcy. And, Ubuntu users are innocent victims of HW experiments. A good SW development companies do not rely on end-users HW.
@ #38
Does this mean Linux is going down the Windows 10 road? Where they collect telemetry about your hardware so they can send you the wrong driver for your video, sound, network and other hardware with the next forced Windows update? Bork your hardware or make it slow down, trying to deceive you into buying new hardware?
In fact, Windows 10 followed the concept from Linux and went too far. Linux has implemented this a way long back before Windows 10 by calling it an installation report. The telemetry has become a part of every piece of software regardless of OSes.
@ #50
"Technology and the loss of freedom"
A beautiful write-up, at least users can decide very well how much technology they actually really need, and how they are going to consume or use it.
@ # 55 & 64
Software Outside of Repositories & Third party repositories.
Whom do you trust and how much you trust is very important. Most of the linux users might be using only firefox as a web-browser. But, how many of you did care to download firefox source from mozilla and run it through a trusted virus scanner(s)?
In theory, same source code when compiled for same hardware architecture must produces same size and same hashes regardless of version of compiler. But, with gcc size of compiled binary keeps increasing with gcc version number. How many of you did really notice this?
At this moment of replying, gcc, grub (bootloaders)and kernel are bloated heavy. Once Linus has also told that kernel is a mess and bloated heavy. As a matter of fact kernel is bundled with so many absolutely irrelevant or obsoleted drivers, and some hidden gotchas are dated way back more that ten years ago.
So,
Whom do you trust and how much you trust is very important.
@ # 76
Reading D.Watch comments is like reading modern Philosophy Books.
Same here!
Thanks DW!
78 • hardware info for sale (by usmackdownd on 2018-02-24 05:24:38 GMT from Australia)
You never know, if Linux computers take off, Canonical could sell their hardware info collected from users to companies that make such computers - like Emperor, ZaReason, System76, Los Alamos, Purism, et al.
79 • @77 (by frisbee on 2018-02-24 07:25:15 GMT from Switzerland)
“A good SW development companies do not rely on end-users HW.”
With all due respect, your statement is a complete nonsense and it proves that you have absolutely no ideas about a development processes. It also depends on how you define a “good~” or “a bad SW developer”.
You may be partially correct in case where one company is developing their own HW and SW or at least, selecting the components to use (like Apple does). Otherwise, “user feedback” and “bug reporting” (== HW data collecting for analyzing and problem solving) are an absolute must.
Developing an operating system is maybe 5% of work, testing an operating system is, at least 95% of work.
When a developer makes some product or some part of it, it has to be thoroughly tested to insure, it works properly. Now, how many millions of possible HW configurations we have out there?
Do you actually really believe that a product developer could test the product on 1% of all existing HW, where the end product is intended to work on, or, does that make the “bad” developer out of him just because it wasn't able (by money, investment in HW and by time needed to do it) to test a product on a couple of millions of possible configurations?
You can love or hate Ubuntu and Canonical but, they did more for Linux then all the others together. Without Ubuntu, we wouldn't have many Linux users out there and probably also none of the third-party SW for it neither.
80 • @79 frisbee: (by dragonmouth on 2018-02-24 13:11:32 GMT from United States)
"they did more for Linux then all the others together"
All hail Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical! When are we going to canonize them?!
Now who is it that has no ideas? Shuttleworth and Canonical did nothing more than capitalize on the work of Ian Murdock, as well as that of the developers of Slackware, Red Hat, Gentoo, SuSe, Knoppix and others. Canonical was a relative Johhny-come-lately to Linux development.
"Without Ubuntu, we wouldn't have many Linux users out there"
No. You can thank the tech writers and pundits who have pushed Ubuntu ad nauseam to the point that all non-Linux users think that Ubuntu is the only Linux distro in existence. Yes, Ubuntu is easy to install and use. HOWEVER, it is only easy to use if used as installed. Try uninstalling any package that was installed by default. Even something as innocuous as 'cowsay' or 'fortune'. You can't without making the system inoperable.
Ubuntu is what a Microsoft-written Linux distro would look like.
81 • @80 (by frisbee on 2018-02-24 14:35:49 GMT from Switzerland)
"Shuttleworth and Canonical did nothing more than capitalize on the work of ..."
And they did it well. Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr was the best and the most professional Linux ever made.
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/lg-laptop-trusty.html
"Ubuntu is easy to install and use. HOWEVER, it is only easy to use if used as installed."
Then use it as intended or take some other operating system.
Just like with my car or my coffee machine. I don't buy a product to pimp it, but to use it.
Most people get and use products as they are.
"Try uninstalling any package that was installed by default. Even something as innocuous as 'cowsay' or 'fortune'. You can't without making the system inoperable."
That's not only Ubuntu problem -- that's a basic package management "problem" under Linux.
Try to uninstall 'xavtv' on a rpm based distro (CentOS, Fedora...) and it will "uninstall itself" if you don't know how to remove the package but keep the dependencies.
Same thing with Ubuntu & Debian. How to remove 'cowsay' or 'fortune'?
sudo dpkg -r --force-all PACKAGENAME (conf files are not removed)
or
sudo dpkg -P --force-all PACKAGENAME (conf files are removed)
"Now who is it that has no ideas?" ;)
82 • Time repeats (by Gentoo Lover on 2018-02-24 20:45:21 GMT from Canada)
@81
Hey man, come down from that swiss mountain and get a lung full of fresh air, you seem a bit uptight.
No one likes being addressed in the fashion of "YOU WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD, AND LIKE IT" !!!
Relax man, maybe its time you switched OS's? too much ubuntu is bad for the health.
Maybe a nice slackware perhaps?
:D
83 • Post # 81 (by Winchester on 2018-02-24 23:34:03 GMT from United States)
The best Linux ever made ????
14.04 or any Ubuntu for that matter .....
Best for security : No. Alpine ; Qubes etc. .
Best for speed of operation : No. Not even Lubuntu can match Gentoo or Alpine or Porteus or Austrumi for speed. Desktop to Desktop.
Best for kernel management : No.
Best for driver management and compatibility with a wide range of hardware : maybe so.
Best for video application : No.
SystemD : Yes.
Compels many users to add PPA : Yes.
Embedded tracking with the default desktop environment in 14.04 : I believe so.
Rolling Updates : No. 14.04 is out of time 15 months from now if I am not mistaken.
84 • @ 79 -n @80 (by Tommy Trustworthless on 2018-02-25 00:05:10 GMT from Canada)
@ # 79
"You can love or hate Ubuntu and Canonical but, they did more for Linux then all the others together. Without Ubuntu, we wouldn't have many Linux users out there and probably also none of the third-party SW for it neither."
One can love or hate any distro depends on what it is bundled with as a buit-in components.
One can love or hate any distro depends on How any distro respect the privacy, rights, ignorance and lack-of-knowledge of end-users.
Long trail of version history tells...
Ubuntu planted amazon lens and other spy-ware bundled with.
Ubuntu corrupted end-user BIOS not once, but, twice.
What do all of you folks think, Should any linux user love Ubuntu, and why?
"they did more for Linux then all the others together."
If Mark Shutterworth is really genius, what he is NOT in reality, he would not be breast-feeding himself Ian-n-Deborah's Debian.
As a matter of fact, Linux provides endless development opportunities for development some lone penguins like Trisquel, Devuan-Family, Arch-Family, Slax-Family, Gentoo-Family, MX-Antix Family, Salix, SliTaz, and Puppy Family did better job than Ubuntu.
Debian and Ubuntu philosophy are opposite. Of course, there is an analogy between MS and Mark Shutterworth, what Ubuntu implemented and tested by victimized innocent users. Microsoft followed a same trail later. Generous Debian Family over-looked commercialization by Debian Sucker called Ubuntu.
@ # 80
""they did more for Linux then all the others together"
All hail Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical! When are we going to canonize them?!
Now who is it that has no ideas? Shuttleworth and Canonical did nothing more than capitalize on the work of Ian Murdock, as well as that of the developers of Slackware, Red Hat, Gentoo, SuSe, Knoppix and others. Canonical was a relative Johhny-come-lately to Linux development.
"Without Ubuntu, we wouldn't have many Linux users out there"
No. You can thank the tech writers and pundits who have pushed Ubuntu ad nauseam to the point that all non-Linux users think that Ubuntu is the only Linux distro in existence. Yes, Ubuntu is easy to install and use. HOWEVER, it is only easy to use if used as installed. Try uninstalling any package that was installed by default. Even something as innocuous as 'cowsay' or 'fortune'. You can't without making the system inoperable.
Ubuntu is what a Microsoft-written Linux distro would look like."
I have re-quotted your reply coz it said it all.
Thanks!
85 • @84 (by frisbee on 2018-02-25 06:25:41 GMT from Switzerland)
There are users and "users" out there, or there are users and there are "freaks" out there, if you prefer it that way. You either work with your computer, or you work on your computer.
Average user does not care for the name of the operating system but it expects it to function. The sole purpose of an operating system is to start the application that one needs or wants - no more or less.
It's all about what the user sees and does. Can it play music and videos, can it print and scan, can it run the SW that one intends to use etc.
Most people I know order stuff from Amazon, call their friends over Skype, writethrough WhatsApp and "hang" on Facebook and YouTube. They also sometimes work with their computers so they also need apropriate SW: Softmaker Office for serious writing, DaVinci for cutting movies etc.
"Ubuntu is what a Microsoft-written Linux distro would look like." -- that exactly is what we are missing. A profesionally made Linux. A couple of "ready for use" distributions (among the others half-working, open and free), owned by somebody and commercial, with propper support for it and propper "third-party" software integration. Wouldn't it be great if one could go to Ubuntu Store, click on Photoshop, pay 15$ a month and just start working?
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-perfect-desktop-formula.html
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-more-professional-the-list.html
Canonical tried at least. They offer you an almost finished product, free to use for anybody, privatly or commercialy. Take it or leave it.
Nobody stops you from taking Trisquel, Devuan-Family, Arch-Family, Slax-Family, Gentoo-Family, Salix, SliTaz, and Puppy instead. You can even take LFS and make an operating system that works out of it (if you can) -- but that's something for "freaks", not for average users.
The sole point is:
https://freelancewritingjournal.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/wallpaper-687406.jpg
Turn computer on, do your job, turn computer off.
"Ubuntu is what a Microsoft-written Linux distro would look like."
I have re-quotted your sentence coz it said it is the essence of professional.
Welcome!
86 • Photo Editing (by Photoos A Dobe on 2018-02-25 09:52:17 GMT from Canada)
I am a casual Photo Editor. Most of the time i prefer GiMP rather than U$15/month for Adobe Photoshop - a cloud based service. Rest of the job is done by wine + PhotoFiltre7.exe (portable version which can be unzipped anywhere.) as under:
$PAD> wine PhotoFiltre7.exe
Is not so simple like 1,2,3?
87 • Canonical info gathering (by cuvtixo on 2018-02-25 10:39:37 GMT from United States)
Inresponse to 65 • @54 (by frisbee on 2018-02-22 11:15:48 GMT from Switzerland) -- Was the irony intended when you wrote of the Russian based distro, Rosalinux? Anyways, after taking a look at Alt Linux, I noticed no mention on Astra Linux on these boards. The premium version being a product of the government and Russian military, is probably restricted in the US and Western countries(?) as an banned import, but I'm unclear where the free "community/education version" stands, legally. I'm probably not going to try it just because Alt Linux did not play well with my 802.11ac Intel wireless, and tying to find the right Russian word for English, (sometimes its английский), so I can change language settings was painful. I'm surprised Distrowatch hasn't taken on the subject: "Legal to import Alta Linux, can it be trusted if so?" Back to the main subject, you're right that the average user does not care about the operating system-- IT SHOULD be near TOTALLY INVISIBLE! It was Microsoft itself who commoditized it. Several versions of DOS were floating around before Windows, TRS-DOS, Digital Research DOS, both PC and MS-DOSes, and plenty of microcomputers running their own versions of CP/M. It was a headache in certain ways, but the operating system was seen as an extension of the PC hardware, nothing more. The manufacturer was solely responsible for the OS, of course. Perhaps if there is a convergence of cell phones and computers and "cloud computing" we will return to those days.
On the other hand, there's less jobs overall because of the PC revolution, and employment may yet drop drastically. Studying the maintenance, care and feeding of microcomputers is as good a strategy as any for keeping employed. When I went to college in the US, I was assured I'd always be able to get a clerical job with a diploma. If nothing else, with a college degree I'd be spared the fate of a seasonal or contract worker. Uncertain jobs like a manual laborer might be expected to do. How that has changed! An attractive secretary used to be a status symbol for male middle managers, a useful, competent secretary, next best. Then PCs came, and you could apply the same criteria to their laptops and phones. But I can't help but notice, whether the machine is a sexy MacOS, a humble Chromebook, or a brilliant Arch linux derivative that's more competent than you'll ever be, there is not an clerical employee walking alongside. (Sorry, yes, I'm milking the metaphors). So I can't agree with your assessment of "freaks"- Not only because I watch Top Gear and Jay Leno drool over million dollar vehicles that should only take them from point A to point B, but I'm fairly certain the remaining clerks, paralegals, middle class workers everywhere are going the way of the dodo. If in 2028 I can customize the entertainment system of the latest self-driving car with Classic Kodi on Debian, I will count myself lucky.
88 • @87 / In response to 87 (by frisbee on 2018-02-25 13:04:13 GMT from Switzerland)
“Was the irony intended … Rosalinux? … I'm probably not going to try it just because Alt Linux did not play well with my 802.11ac Intel wireless … ”
That “ not play well” was the reason why I wrote Rosa Linux and not Alt Linux. Rosa Linux “just works” and it has some additional SW already included in it‘s repositories. The likes of Skype, SoftMaker Office Free, Steam ...
English is not my mother tongue so, it may be that I used the expression “freaks” the wrong way or that you simply just misunderstood it. In this context “freaks” should have the meaning of “people having nothing better to do in their lives but, getting themselves some Arch or LFS and get occupied with pimp it until they drop – people working on their computers to make them to work, instead of simply working WITH their computers, use them as a tool – what they actually are”.
“On the other hand, there are fewer jobs overall because of the PC revolution ...” – sad truth. Human beings are getting more and more irrelevant and, probably around 30% of the jobs, “white collar” jobs at least, could be replaced by machines already tomorrow.
As for the “Legal to import Alt Linux, can it be trusted if so?” and privacy/data collecting concerns: there is nobody who can tell you whom YOU can trust – it’s just a simple matter of your logic and, it’s only YOU who can answer it for YOURSELF. You can check it, if it concerns you (@43).
Basically, data collecting is absolute necessity. No matter what you do, you always must collect data first. You wanna cook? You need a recipe (== data collecting). You wanna write a fiction book? You need to create a data collection for your fictional characters. You wanna improve some product (@10, @65, @79)? You need a data collecting … You want a functioning city or state? You need a data collecting. On which basis you’re gonna say how many and how big hospitals you have to build if you don’t know how many people you have? Or how many schools you need if you don’t know how many children are out there? And so on, and on …
Basically, not a data collecting itself is a problem but who collects the data and what for.
About trusting … generally speaking, only YOU can say whom YOU can trust. Only you know, where are you living and “what do YOU have to hide”. Yes, we all have something to hide.
Take the Egypt as an example.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/08/lgbt-people-egypt-targeted-wave-arrests-violence
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/apr/03/jailed-for-using-grindr-homosexuality-in-egypt
Take the U.S. as an example.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/#10ede05c8f95
Again basically, living in the U.S., I wouldn’t have any privacy issues/concerns about Chinese or Russians having my data but, U.S. government having my data – and, of course, the other way round.
There was a very nice written editorial about the sense of data collecting and its possible consequences. It appeared in German computer magazine c’t and it’s written on German, so I shall copy/paste two links to it:
Original Article on German:
https://www.heise.de/ct/ausgabe/2015-17-Editorial-Nichts-zu-verbergen-2755486.html
Google Translator translated version:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fct%2Fausgabe%2F2015-17-Editorial-Nichts-zu-verbergen-2755486.html&edit-text=
The translation is not perfect but still fairly well and usable, so I’ll not bother by repairing it.
89 • @ #88 frisbee Data Collection (by Tommy Trustworthless on 2018-02-25 16:46:26 GMT from Canada)
@ # 88
Now you are talking ...
Talking about Data Collections.
That's may be the main reason why you are shouting to promote Ubuntu.
As you said
"“On the other hand, there are fewer jobs overall because of the PC revolution ...” – sad truth. Human beings are getting more and more irrelevant and, probably around 30% of the jobs, “white collar” jobs at least, could be replaced by machines already tomorrow."
You must apply and talk to Mark Shuttleworth for a post of Marketing & Product Promotion Manager.
Back to Data Collection ... Here is the BiG HINT for all Internet Users.
In Data Collection Business, Validity is also very important.
True validity of collected data is very difficult, if you can make it more difficult.
Local Authority Collects the Garbages on regular basis from outside of our homes, where I live in order to maintain clean neighborhood for decent living.
Same holds true for Data as well,
Garbage IN => Garbage Collection => Garbage OUT
Now all of you know what to FEED.
90 • @ 89 (Blind beside healthy eyes) (by frisbee on 2018-02-25 18:50:18 GMT from Switzerland)
„That's may be the main reason why you are shouting to promote Ubuntu.“
PLEASE, learn reading or stop discussing.
Noticing the facts like about Ubuntu beeing the most professional Linux up to date is not promoting it. That is simple fact.
The part about the jobs you obviously also didn‘t understand. That was anyway citation of my predecesor (@ 88) and my reply to it - which is also just a simple fact. Mark Shuttlewort has very little to do with it. Your government much more so.
Data collection business is as is - because of your choice. Every 4 years you get a chance to make it better. So, it‘s somehow more your failure them Shuttleworths. But you also didn‘t understand.
But, back to „our topic - HW data collection“. It is necessary for product improvement. If you don‘t wanna do it, „Shuttleworth“ is giving you a chance to turn it off and if that is not yet enough, „Shuttleworth“ is not forcing you to use it - just keep using your Gentoo or LFS or whatever else you are using.
So, „Shuttleworth“ is actually beeing very generous and is giving you one free ALTERNATIVE, in opposite to other paid products.
And what do you do? You are crying and complaining.
Grow up and try to change your problem on a right place. Next elections are comming...
91 • frisbee (by anbticapitalista on 2018-02-25 20:37:07 GMT from Greece)
@85 Just wondering why you omitted MX/antiX family from your 'quote' of the list posted in @84
92 • Canonical-ize? (by Kragle on 2018-02-25 22:05:42 GMT from United States)
( @91 You're not alone, AnitCapitalista: that quote left out the entire DebIan-clan. ;-)
But should you interfere with fools in their folly*? That's dangerous, you know.
…
Shuttleworth's effort at reform (prior disclosure, asking permission) should be acknowledged. That said, following Microsoft's initial (cost-)free OS offering 'the first fix(s) are free' in hopes of cornering the Linux market, while beneficial to Linux promotion, wasn't entirely saintly. Considering RedHat's deeply-rooted(!) presence, OpenSUSE, ROSA, etc it was certainly ambitious, and did eventually garner some server market-share.
…
* Calling opinion "simple fact" doesn't change it.
Number of Comments: 92
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