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1 • Categorization of deepin: should be it reconsidered? (by Brenton Horne on 2018-01-15 00:49:52 GMT from Australia) |
Jesse said he couldn't find a more user-friendly distro for personal use, does this mean deepin should be added to the "Beginners" category? I suppose technically user-friendly is not necessarily synonymous with beginner-friendly, but I've used deepin and I find it very beginner-friendly. The only aspect of it that is not so beginner-friendly is that the default mirrors can result in slow downloads and changing them does require a little more knowledge than an absolute beginner would have.
2 • Wayland vs Xorg (by John on 2018-01-15 03:17:17 GMT from Romania)
I am using Xorg because Wayland doesn't work at all under Kubuntu with the official Nvidia driver so the is no choice.
3 • Permissions ruin FUN. (by OS2_user on 2018-01-15 03:51:32 GMT from United States)
First a quibble: "I like to test distributions live before installing them to make sure my hardware is compatible." -- Should never be necessary with that you state. Completely standard, major manufacturer.
"deepin favours ease of use over security" -- Good! You are not running a 1970s time-sharing system, but have a PERSONAL computer with adequate physical security. The worst you can do by experimenting is have to re-install, a half-hour tops. I don't want to be too rude here, but the shared / personal distinction that entails password is a key point that simply removes FUN. I think this highly important. First time on Ubuntu (version 8 or so) hit me with "sudo" demand for password just to do a trivial experiment was the last time. If you add up time wasted obtaining "permission", it's substantial.
Most of you here claim to be savvy gurus, and you're NOT always root? I don't think you're either brave or careful, then. -- Just clicking around in a GUI is often more risky than root as such. Actual example: intalled Puppy intending to be permanent, began to select video files to move when finger slipped on mouse. ALL began to open, freezing low-resource machine. After powered off, would not re-boot. Wouldn't even re-install! Had to remove with another. -- AND SO, I gave up on Puppy: its BAD DESIGN of allowing more than one instance of video player convinced me that I couldn't rely on it.
And again, what I think a key point that you Linux types overlook: You simply cannot scare Windows users into "good" behavior! They're used to crashes for variety of causes. But you can take away the fun of Linux with endless "permissions". Just try to warn of the most obvious immediate dangers. Anyone using the command line is "going commando" at own risk, eh?
4 • translucency (by MeKa on 2018-01-15 04:46:10 GMT from United States)
I appreciate that the deepin desktop integrates translucency into the interface (the dock, the settings panel, the launcher). By that I mean the gaussian-blurred bleed-through of colors that ties things together aesthetically. You see simple transparency sans blur often, even in light-weight window managers like xfce, but the added blur in my opinion fixes the problem of competing and overlaid visual elements that require extra attention from the user.
5 • @3 (by Thom on 2018-01-15 06:24:23 GMT from Sweden)
If entering your root password when making changes to the system is spoiling your fun, and you haven't bothered figuring out how to log in as root on startup, maybe Linux isn't for you...
6 • @3 On the subject of permissions (by Microlinux on 2018-01-15 06:46:07 GMT from France)
In other words, when folks care to point out that you risk shooting yourself in the foot (by running X11 and apps as root), here you are claiming BUT IT'S MY FOOT! :o)
7 • @3 (by Bellux on 2018-01-15 07:15:26 GMT from United States)
I agree that permissions do ruin the fun. You can thank hackers for that being necessary. You won't find all that craziness in Windows at the cost of security and privacy. There is quite of bit to learn about Linux before you can safely dive right in. I get your point. Let's go back to Windows (using 8.1 myself). Linux isn't as fun as Windows, but Windows isn't as secure. I used Linux for a year, and regretted it. Oh, it was such a delight to see Windows being installed on computer again. Those permissions get repetitive, but there are ways around them-do your own research. I just dozed off while typing this. I was thinking of a time when my sister was younger, riding on a public bus, and a guy kept putting his hands on her feet. Had she had mace back then, she could have made that guy stop (in the end, I stared him down, and he left her alone). Sorry, I had not business bringing up that personal matter. Anyway, I am very tired now, and will go to sleep. But, you have someone here who understands your point (or most of it).
8 • @3 (by salt on 2018-01-15 08:11:06 GMT from Germany)
actually, permission is fun and useful in a lot of situations as for example at work, when you use a computer embedded in a network, or at home/work when you want that keep files/directories safe from being red from third parties (there are lot more examples). You can also save you a lot of sudo by editing and saving config. files for applications in your home folder etc.
I don't get your point with puppy linux -- it is actually one system among few others that you can use easily even without installing it (keyword poor man install). The ability to work as root is imho not a strength, because you don't need to always be root.
yes, linux is not windows and it can be frustrating -- but it is not for nerd only, and you will probably realize it if you give it another try, and if you are ready to dig a bit in it.
9 • Wayland + Nvidia (by morgan cox on 2018-01-15 10:59:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm still on xorg as I have a Nvidia card.
There is no point trying yet due to lack of xwayland support at present. Idea of using nouveau is insane as that would be wasting my money I spent on my card, if you are doing that you may as well have stuck with onboard intel.
10 • Wayland or Xorg (by JIm on 2018-01-15 12:06:12 GMT from United States)
I guess I really don't know or care. I use Debian and Ubuntu Mate, so whatever they use, that is what I use.
11 • Deepin 15.5 Review (by DistroScreener on 2018-01-15 12:46:28 GMT from India)
// I was disappointed there was no live desktop option.
Just like base distribution, deepin also fails to provide a live desktop. :(
12 • Welcome to Deepin Live... @ Jessie (by OstroL on 2018-01-15 12:54:51 GMT from Poland)
"I was disappointed there was no live desktop option. I like to test distributions live before installing them to make sure my hardware is compatible."
When the Grub screen appears, press 'e' ,and then in the next screen,
>> linux /live/vmlinuz.efi boot=live union=overlay livecd-installer locale=zh_CN quiet splash -- <<
delete livecd-installer, change locale=zh_CN to locale=en_EN
and, press F10.
Welcome to Deepin live!
13 • @Jesse Depin Software Management (by dragonmouth on 2018-01-15 13:15:29 GMT from United States)
Since Deepin is Debian-based, can't you install Synaptic and use that to manege software?
14 • Wayland or Xorg (by Tim on 2018-01-15 13:34:57 GMT from United States)
I run both: Xorg on my Arch Linux desktop and Wayland on my Fedora Linux notebook. Both are doing fine.
15 • at #1, Agree, and should be done to several distro actually (by BeGo on 2018-01-15 14:24:31 GMT from Indonesia)
I fully agree to add new distros for beginner, like Zorin and Deepin
Bodhi Linux should be taken off from RasPi category, cause, we still considering to re-support it.
For multi-version distro, like Mint and Zorin, should they added to each intended category (that means Zorin also encompass netbook category), or separated as different entries (Zorin and Zorin Light separated)?
16 • Jesse's review of DeepIn -- suggestion (by Clicktician on 2018-01-15 15:16:41 GMT from United States)
I have a humble suggestion about Distrowatch reviews (which are excellent, by the way).
Certain distros like PopOS!, and I believe DeepIn, invest considerable development efforts in support of HiDPI screens. Many distros reviewed here are crippled on any screen higher than 96dpi. Yes, you can dance around with Xrandr and reduce your UHD screen back to HD, but that's an annoying waste of your hardware.
Many linux apps and desktops presume they're on 96dpi and even hard code such resolutions in icons, font sets, and GUI features. It wouldn't surprise me if Chrome was oddly included with DeepIn because it requires some tweaks to get it to behave in HiDPI. Firefox is somewhat easier to rig.
If HiDPI support is a requirement for a user, as it is on my current laptop, well over half of the distros on the roster here would fail basic usability tests. They either can't use the max resolution of the display, or the UI is microscopic. Throw in running under VirtualBox or VMware Workstation and resolution problems abound.
Screens in excess of 150 dpi are everywhere in the stores, and their mass adoption is accelerating. If you have access to one, it might be a welcome addition to your suite of review challenges. It may surprise you how many more times you can't even get past the graphical installer.
17 • Deepin (by Jesse on 2018-01-15 15:19:32 GMT from Canada)
@12: You are correct, changing the GRUB boot parameters can give you a live desktop environment. It's an ugly step to make users take to get it, but it does work. One footnote here: With deepin's GRUB menu I need to press Tab to edit boot parameters and Enter to boot, pressing "e" doesn't do anything.
@13: Yes, you can install Synaptic on deepin if you are so inclined.
18 • @3 opening multiple instances (by JG on 2018-01-15 15:22:05 GMT from United States)
It's not a feature of the OS (like Puppy or Windows) to stop or allow opening multiple instances of a program, it's usually a setting in the program's preferences itself.
For example, in VLC's menu under Tools / Preferences / Playlist you'll find a very handy "Allow only one running instance" checkbox. Or, in Firefox for example, it's slightly more complicated, you have to play with the documented "about:config" settings.
Since I can make mistakes like accidental mouse or key presses, etc., I often look for this control setting up my preferences for a program. With windows opening on top of each other it's sometimes hard to notice there's another instance running.
19 • Spectre and Meltdown (by albinard on 2018-01-15 15:50:35 GMT from United States)
There is a Github tool to check what variants of Spectre your computer is vulnerable to:
20 • @12 Deepin Live (by Reinaldo Fernandez on 2018-01-15 16:05:58 GMT from Venezuela)
Last time I tried Deepin 3 weeks ago, on my legacy bios machine it gave me an option for live mode, and on my UEFI laptop just choosing the failsafe option acts as a live mode for some reason
21 • @ 17 Deepin (by OstroL on 2018-01-15 16:35:09 GMT from Poland)
"With deepin's GRUB menu I need to press Tab to edit boot parameters and Enter to boot, pressing "e" doesn't do anything."
Mine is a UEFI laptop, and I just did that and I am writing from the live Deepin 15.5.
22 • deepin booting (by Jesse on 2018-01-15 16:44:10 GMT from Canada)
@21: Perhaps I should have been more specific. Pressing "e" doesn't do anything in deepin's Legacy BIOS boot loader. It does in UEFI mode. Tab is the reverse, it works in Legacy mode, but not UEFI mode.
23 • @ 22 • deepin booting (by OstroL on 2018-01-15 17:28:51 GMT from Poland)
The info is given on the bottom of the grub window. Little bit hard to read the info in UEFI laptop, because of the light blue, white background.
For UEFI, Press 'e' to change the menu entry and press F10 to start.
For an MBR laptop, press Tab and then edit the entry line, and then press F10 to start.
You can play with it, and if you like, and then install it as there is a link "Install Deepin" on the desktop.
I think, Deepin is not giving a live mode, as it has to cater for Chinese and other languages. At the install stage, you choose locale, so the rest is not installed.
24 • @22 continued (by OstroL on 2018-01-15 17:33:36 GMT from Poland)
I wrote the comment #23 from Deepin 15.5 in live mode from an MBR laptop. It would be nice to test any distro in both MBR and UEFI laptops, even though nowadays no new MBR laptops are produced.
25 • Some thoughts about distro reviews (by OstroL on 2018-01-15 18:43:14 GMT from Poland)
After writing the comments on Deepin's live modes (#12, 22, 23), I was thinking about another interesting, and different from others Solus. Someday, there would be a review on Solus 3, and there would be problems on giving a right view about it.
In the last DW review of Solus 2017.01.01 (Issue 698, 6 February 2017), there was a wrong view, "There is no option to mount NTFS/FAT32 partitions so, if you have one, you have to mount these partitions manually after installation." And, nothing else. That sends wrong signal to the readers. That statement is not exactly true. (That was not Jessie's review.)
Actually, if you install Solus on an MBR laptop, os-prober would find all installed distros and Windows too, and the grub login window would have Solus at the top and all other Linux distros and Windows there.
But, if you install Solus in a UEFI laptop, you won't even see Solus anywhere, even if you had another distro's grub login screen. If you'd go to your own distro and update grub, you'd see Solus 3 in your grub screen, but you won't be able to boot it from that. To boot Solus in a UEFI mode, you have to press Esc/F2/F9/F10/F11/F12 during boot (depending on your motherboard) to call your EFI boot options, and then go to Linux Boot Manager and click on it to boot Solus 3. In the UEFI mode, Solus won't dual boot with any distro or OS. You have to use the EFI boot options of your computer to boot Solus. And, you can't have 2 or more Solus derivatives in one EFI install. Maybe in the future, Solus might find another way to boot in UEFI mode. Right now, you can't dual boot.
So, a distro should be reviewed in both MBR and UEFI modes. As there are no more MBR computers produced, more emphasis of distro reviews should be on UEFI ones.
(The newer version of Solus is Solus 3.)
26 • Fair Warning is Smart Design & Running as Root is Dumb User Choice (by M.Z. on 2018-01-15 19:27:21 GMT from United States)
"...Just clicking around in a GUI is often more risky than root as such. Actual example: intalled Puppy intending to be permanent, began to select video files to move when finger slipped on mouse. ALL began to open, freezing low-resource machine. After powered off, would not re-boot. Wouldn't even re-install! Had to remove with another. -- AND SO, I gave up on Puppy: its BAD DESIGN ..."
"...You simply cannot scare Windows users into "good" behavior! They're used to crashes for variety of causes. But you can take away the fun of Linux with endless "permissions". Just try to warn of the most obvious immediate dangers. ..."
So basically, you want fair warning on all GUI programs that could cause an issue, but not on the ones security experts & Linux makers have deemed most wise to safe guard? That sounds like a self contradictory mess of a position that is designed by you to fix your particular preferences while potentially doing lots of damage in the real world. People share PCs in their homes & some users would make better root users than others. That & the case of shared machines in a business are both parts of why security permissions exist. I do think there is some merit to getting some kind of warning if you transfer a large number of files or do something else to cause the system to hang; however, there is no good reason to think removing security permissions is a smarter default. Feel free to find systems that let you log in as root, but complaining about smarter options being available for the rest of us is rather pointless & foolish.
27 • Running Deepin live from USB (by eco2geek on 2018-01-15 22:23:24 GMT from United States)
Another, more permanent way of running Deepin live from USB that also involves modifying its GRUB parameters: Write the ISO image to a USB key using Deepin Boot Maker --
-- (binaries for Mac and Windows are on the ISO image) -- when it's done writing the USB key, go to the
directory, and edit "live.cfg" to remove "livecd-installer" from the line that reads
append boot=live components quiet splash union=overlay livecd-installer locales=zh_CN.UTF-8
and also change "locales=zh_CN.UTF-8" to "en_US.UTF-8".
Then just boot the default entry from the USB key.
28 • @27 - oops (by eco2geek on 2018-01-15 22:25:25 GMT from United States)
That should read, change "locales=zh_CN.UTF-8" to "locales=en_US.UTF-8".
Also, that's the /syslinux/ directory at the root of the USB key.
29 • All is great till try living in America and need check weather. (by Scott Eno on 2018-01-15 22:55:52 GMT from United States)
Deepin has one flaw so I will not use it to addressed. There is no way to get the nice weather program to read in American numbers instead of metric. One that's resolved I will retest this distro.
30 • KDE, Mate (by Kim on 2018-01-15 23:28:23 GMT from Austria)
Lost patience with KDE more than a year ago due to annoying stability issues and ended up with LXDE. The latter does its job but no more than that. I might consider something else as long as it is not called Gnome or Xfce. If someone was recently playing around with DEs and could share his opinion, I'd be grateful. Mate and KDE (again) are on my watch list but I am flexible as long as my next DE proves to be rock solid and does not waste my time.
31 • @30: Budgie, DDE, Liri, LXQt, Pantheon or a nice simple window manager? (by Brenton Horne on 2018-01-16 07:23:12 GMT from Australia)
Guessing you've considered the Deepin Desktop Environment (DDE) after reading Jesse's review of deepin? I have found it rather stable, to be honest. It used to be buggy, at least on Arch and Manjaro, but now it is nice and stable. It isn't very customizable, but it is beautiful and light in terms of RAM usage.
LXQt is LXDE's port to Qt and may represent the future of LXDE as LXDE is presently essentially in maintenance mode. LXQt is primarily developed by the same great mind that brought us LXDE, Hong Jen Yee (PCMan, whom happens to be a medical doctor in real life too, ironic as his software also happens to save old hardware and prolong its life). I have only used LXQt a few times, the first couple of times (during its early days) it was buggy as ...., after that it became rather stable. I do not use it because I find it fairly limited in customization options, or at least it was last time I used it (~mid 2017, I think).
Pantheon of elementary OS I find fairly stable running on elementary OS, but on other distros (e.g. Arch) it tends to be quite buggy (granted I last tried it on another distro over a year ago). Customizability options are not all that much, but still it is a pretty DE.
Budgie is also fairly good-looking and I have found it fairly stable on other distros (other than the one it was developed originally for, Solus OS). It is based on GNOME though so depending on what problem you have found with GNOME, it may also have this problem.
Liri (formerly Hawaii desktop) is a desktop environment that can only run on Wayland. Early on its stability was quite poor but recently I've found it getting more and more stable. It is used by its own distribution called Liri OS.
My favourite user interface is usually i3, it is simple, fast, customizable (using shell script-like configuration files) and stable as can be. I do not believe I have ever noticed a bug in it, despite using it 60% of the time (and I use my PC ~15 hours a day) for the past 6 months or more. i3 is available for like >95% of desktop distributions, frankly the only desktop distro I know of that does not have it is GoboLinux (although it does have a i3status package, oddly https://recipes.gobolinux.org/r/?name=i3&search=Recipes), they favour the awesome (Lua configured) window manager instead. Feel free to check out my i3 config files https://github.com/fusion809/i3-configs (an example of what i3 looked running an older version of my configs is shown at the repo). If Haskell is your preferred language you can check out the Haskell-configured xmonad window manager.
32 • @29 weather in 'American numbers' (by Niko Z. on 2018-01-16 08:15:50 GMT from Indonesia)
'Deepin has one flaw so I will not use it to addressed. There is no way to get the nice weather program to read in American numbers instead of metric.'
You mean the 'imperial system'.. ;)
33 • @ 29 a bug in the US (by Per on 2018-01-16 08:16:25 GMT from France)
"There is no way to get the nice weather program to read in American numbers instead of metric. "
That's a bug in the American "numbers", rather than a 'bug' in a Linux distro. Not even the British use the "imperial system."
34 • @30 KDE (by Mike on 2018-01-16 10:13:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
You don't say what you were running KDE on, but that could make a difference. It has been rock solid for me on Debian Stretch for several months.
35 • deepin and CrossOver (by meanpt on 2018-01-16 11:47:39 GMT from Portugal)
CrossOver only provides limited time free trials. Meaning deepin can only ship a free trial.
36 • @30,31 missed the obvious? (by curious on 2018-01-16 13:14:53 GMT from Germany)
I'm surprised that Cinnamon is not on your list. It is quite full-featured and "modern" - but with a classical layout, so no-one is surprised by an unusual workflow and/or missing adjustability. Thus, it is like KDE, but uses GTK technology (like Gnome) instead of QT. I liked it a lot when I tried it last.
On a side-note, what problem did you have with Xfce? In my experience, it is both rock-solid and fast, and thus does not waste time. The only drawbacks are that it sometimes feels a bit simple (and to some people, that is a plus!), and the configuration modules are not always very comfortable to use.
37 • x.org (by Jordan on 2018-01-16 14:01:49 GMT from United States)
Wayland seems to be about 50% evolved. Perhaps less? So x.org it is for many of us, as is borne out by the survey.
Speaking of evolution, the Deepin distro seems to be coming along nicely. The review made it seem tantalizing enough to give it a try.
38 • Deepin 15.5 and WPS (by Jeff Tincher on 2018-01-16 15:31:21 GMT from United States)
I tried Deepin 15.5. I loved the graphics but didn't care for Crossover or WPS. Crossover did not work with my main DAW. I like WPS and it's functionality. But their presentation software is not compatible with Microsoft Office. Being a worship leader at our local church we use Powerpoint as our presentation software. When I created slides on WPS, the fonts didn't match Microsoft Office fonts and I had to make a lot of adjustments to have them work with MS Office. I didn't care for the application menu being spread over the screen. I like the listing application menus than the tile version Deepin has.
39 • 35 • deepin and CrossOver (by aquila on 2018-01-16 16:15:52 GMT from France)
"CrossOver only provides limited time free trials. Meaning deepin can only ship a free trial."
They have some sort of a contract, so the crossover you get with deepin you can use just like another application. It is not blocked in anyway.
40 • OstroL (by @ 38 Powerpoint and church... on 2018-01-16 16:19:16 GMT from Poland)
> Being a worship leader at our local church we use Powerpoint as our presentation software. <
You should ask the Church to buy you Windows...
41 • Deepin (by jeffrydada on 2018-01-16 18:25:26 GMT from United States)
As Mentioned earlier Deepin WILL boot into live mode by selecting "failsafe" in the boot menu. It's another one of those "same language, but drive on the other side of the road " thing.
42 • @31 @34 @36, ..@32 (by Kim on 2018-01-16 23:24:52 GMT from Austria)
Thanks for all your feedback guys.
KDE: I've used it for more than a decade, was excited by the stability of KDE3.something, then witnessed its complete destruction for quite a long time. Finally a late KDE4 became rock solid. KDE5 started to fail on me reliably after a few reconfiguration attempts. Tried it on 3 distros and dumped it for good. But I definitely want me to believe that it will regain stability as suggested in one of the posts.
Cinnamon: Crashed on me some time ago which led me to think that Mate would be better. But it eventually turned out that Mate got confused with my dual head configuration at some point.
Xfce: Was running it several times. Seemed ok but at least as old fashioned as LXDE while it felt slightly less responsive with more memory consumption. So LXDE is still in all of my boxes waiting for its replacement in 2018....
@32: That's a good one :-)
43 • deepin (by david esktorp on 2018-01-17 04:05:53 GMT from United States)
I guarantee anyone processing sensitive data through this distribution will eventually be deepin doodoo. I do not understand the appeal to non-asians and especially to those who don't speak a lick of mandarin. The DE is nothing special. Seems purely novelty of saying you're using a chinese OS; like the handful of americans and brits who use Ubuntu Kylin full-time simply because they're self-loathing sinophiles.
It's bad enough we're forced to buy all of our hardware from China. It is known that the chinese have built back doors in to these products, so why would any sane westerner trust them to deliver untainted end-user software? As bad as our own corporations have been regarding 'open source' and 'free' software, there is no doubt the chinese will be 100x worse. It's absurd to hide behind the the typical FOSS arguments because none of us have the chops to audit such a mammoth collection of code.
Use as close to a domestically produced distribution as possible and unconditionally trust none of them!
44 • @ 43 (by aquila on 2018-01-17 07:44:27 GMT from France)
> I do not understand the appeal to non-asians and especially to those who don't speak a lick of mandarin. <
> It's bad enough we're forced to buy all of our hardware from China.<
45 • @23 david esktorp: "It is known that the chinese have built back doors" (by meanpt on 2018-01-17 08:35:37 GMT from Portugal)
... hum ... Did they also design intel's processors? ... or should we look at somewhere (someone) else?
46 • really GREAT news for KDE/Nvidia users (by curious on 2018-01-17 09:36:34 GMT from Germany)
So now there is an "eternal feature freeze" for KWin/X11. That means, at least until Wayland works with Nvidia (and who knows when that will be?), that Nvidia/KDE users will no longer be bothered by buggy new "features". Stability at last!
Hopefully, that does not mean that in the future, KDE will no longer work with Nvidia cards ...
47 • Deepin - - ArchMan (by Winchester on 2018-01-17 13:59:38 GMT from United States)
I tried the Deepin desktop last year in Manjaro. I might give it a shot in Arch or in ArchMan. Just for the sake of variety on a multi-boot system. Can't see myself ever using it as a primary option. Also,I am not going to mess with the Deepin distribution itself. The Deepin Music player doesn't seem too shabby,though.
48 • Re: 38: Powerpoint (by Mac from ZA on 2018-01-17 14:26:37 GMT from South Africa)
For presentations including of songs, check out OpenLP and OpenSong. (Hint: they can do presentations too)
Fonts can be installed easily enough, they just have to be obtained.
49 • Problematic Sources (by M.Z. on 2018-01-17 17:32:23 GMT from United States)
"> It's bad enough we're forced to buy all of our hardware from China.<...
I for one also find the situation with a near Chinese monopoly on PC & electronics hardware production to be highly problematic. I don't like the way #43 put the part about Mandarin, & don't think there is much merit to such arguments except when there are obvious translation problems, though I have certainly seen those.
The real issues to me are the intertwined problems of an authoritarian market manipulating regime & of big multinational companies stepping in to take advantage of both manipulated markets & sweat shop conditions. That alone is more than enough to make me wary of things coming from a region. When you add to that the deeply ingrained culture of social control from the top with things like the 'great firewall of China', then you arrive at somewhere being worth avoiding as a source for all kinds of software & products due to numerous factors.
Frankly that whole thing where no one in China can run a web search or pick up a book on the goings on in Tiananmen Square in 1989 is deeply creepy. It makes me want to avoid any software from there regardless of how great most of the people are & regardless of whether or not local software & hardware producers are required to do anything on behalf of the 'Peoples Republic' of China & those in power there. I hope that those in power in China eventually give up on being so creepy & controlling, because I'm sure there are plenty of people like myself who are deeply bothered by it & are trying to avoid things coming from there as a result. Most of the Distros I use regularly aren't from my country & they are very solid products that I trust, but I don't feel comfortable with Distros coming from areas where the government has anything like total top down authoritarian control of both products & speech. That's the antithesis of the goals of 'free as in speech' software & is totally contradictory to the freedom for users it seeks.
50 • @ 49 (by OstroL on 2018-01-17 17:43:41 GMT from Poland)
Have you been to China?
51 • @49 • Problematic Sources (by mandog on 2018-01-17 21:28:33 GMT from Peru)
So You don't like what goes on in China I'm sorry the rest of the world does not agree with the US on the Use of water torture used in the torture of terrorists Now not 30 years ago.
Back to Deepin it uses Debian so that means The US Debian is in co-hoots with the Chinese to spy on the world pull another one please.
Regards China manufacturing a majority of goods, well that is easy its called western greed of both companies and the public, companies have no ethics just buy cheap sell for inflated prices a iphone for instance probably costs $5-$10 to produce and sells for a fortune, Trainers cost 50cents to produce sell for over $100, and the public ignorance for buying these inflated priced goods, China is only doing what the west cant do produce top quality goods a low prices.
I have used Deepin its a solid distro its not for me but it at least brings new ideas to the table where Ubuntu failed
52 • @40 and 38 Powerpoint abd Church (by Rev_Don on 2018-01-17 22:53:17 GMT from United States)
> Being a worship leader at our local church we use Powerpoint as our presentation software. <
>You should ask the Church to buy you Windows...<
And how would buying Windows solve anything? Windows doesn't include PowerPoint. He could access the FREE Online version of PowerPoint (and the rest of MS Office) via https://products.office.com/en-gb/office-online/documents-spreadsheets-presentations-office-online
But aside from his not liking the layout of the WPS Menus it sounds more like a Font issue than a program issue to me. I ran into issues with fonts opening LibreOffice Impress files in PowerPoint until I installed the same fonts on both computers.
53 • @44 (by david esktorp on 2018-01-18 04:32:45 GMT from United States)
It's called common sense. You can call it whatever you like. Ask the chinese, japanese, russians, etc; ask any nation if they would like to be 99.9% dependent upon another nation for its electronics, rare earth minerals, etc (ie modern technology) as the West is with China, today. Their answer will be a resounding, "No!" Go call them xenophobic and watch carefully how they laugh in your face.
Why do you think the Japanese discourage foreigners from permanent residency? Why do you think the Chinese are always banning foreign software, sites, etc and replacing them with domestically produced clones? It's because they have no reason to implicitly trust other nations, corporations, etc.
Look for an example no further than your own nation. France has invited in the entire world to suckle its withered teet, while taxing its citizens to death and as a result it is now a rotting, crime-filled husk of its former self. The City of Paris has even allowed CHINESE POLICE to operate on its streets explicitly to protect CHINESE TOURISTS. Look it up if you don't believe me.
We are living in possibly the most precarious economic situation in history.
Welcome to the real world, Aquila.
54 • Just a base (by Garon on 2018-01-18 16:55:48 GMT from United States)
No. What that means is that Debian is used just as a base for Deepin. That's all. The Deepin developers can and did what ever they wanted to do with it. That's their right under the GPL.
55 • fonts and sudo (by Tim Dowd on 2018-01-18 17:08:08 GMT from United States)
If you're using any of the Debian family, the command
sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts
should fix your problem. Microsoft released its most common fonts back in the Netscape/IE days under a license that allows redistribution. You have to accept this license to complete the install.
@ 3 and likeminded
I'm confused about what you think is especially onerous in Linux about permissions. For day to day use, I don't think any of the major desktop distros are significantly different than Windows or MacOS at this point. Every OS asks for confirmation before carrying out a command that makes changes to the system. Sure, in some of them if you have an administrator account it might not ask for a password, but is entering a password all that worse than clicking "yes I really want to do this?"
56 • Deepin (by Xeta on 2018-01-18 20:13:33 GMT from United States)
I've been with Linux since Turbolinux 1998? 20 years? And tasted Distro after Distro through the years - so many I can't count! I must admit Deepin, regardless of ease of use or not- depending on what you try to tweak afterwards, has to be one of the most beautiful distributions I have seen in a very long time. Chose the Pcmanfm file manager though, and I removed some of the default home folders in .config but damn the Chinese really did a fine job here! Easiest install I've seen. The software center is beyond simple and uninstalling a program is also. Very impressed by this system. I'm an e17 fan and have used that the last few years as a desktop. e17 can be installed. But I'm torn between the Beauty of Deepin and the tweaky e17. Kudos to the work involved here.
57 • Re #3: so much mis-understood that must reply. (by OS2_user on 2018-01-19 01:54:51 GMT from United States)
@7 "a guy kept putting his hands on her feet." -- IF you're being sly with an "analogy", no, the situation with "permissions" is that I can't put MY OWN hands on MY OWN feet!
@8 "lot of situations as for example at work," -- NO, I stated a PERSONAL computer.
@8 "I don't get your point with puppy linux" -- It TOTALLY CRASHED AND BURNED after my finger slipped. Someone else advises turning off multiple video instances: YEAH, that should be default for its low-resource targets!
@8 "you will probably realize it if you give it another try, and if you are ready to dig a bit in it." -- No. Gave it TEN years and new GUIs are wretched, as many here complain. I am not "experimenting", I want stability. And to be root. I run WINDOWS and chop out whatever I don't care for, yet it's Linux that NAGS!
XP or W7, though annoying, are stable in comparison to say, PCLinuxOS that ext4 file system rotted away on until lost both superblocks. That drive is now fine on W7.
@26 "not on the ones security experts & Linux makers have deemed most wise to safe guard?" -- The contradiction is of your imagining. I don't want to get permission to change the desktop wallpaper, actual example. I stated a PERSONAL computer, no other users, so don't drag that in for cause.
@26 "Feel free to find systems that let you log in as root," -- Yes, I have: XP and W7 after PCLinuxOS stopped letting me. And XSane NAGS every time when root.
@26 "complaining about smarter options being available for the rest of us is rather pointless & foolish." -- YOU are free to be so smart and enjoy so much security theater as you wish, but clearly you and those who make distros want ME to jump through hoops TOO. It's not necessary. I run WINDOWS without this security theater. WINDOWS. OLDER WINDOWS: XP and 7.
58 • Installation of ANY desired fonts. (by Fonty Funtoos on 2018-01-19 06:32:56 GMT from Canada)
"When I created slides on WPS, the fonts didn't match Microsoft Office fonts and I had to make a lot of adjustments to have them work with MS Office. "
If Windows fonts is only your problem, then,
I hope you are using deepin 15.xx based on debian (unstable) branch.
(1) you can install any fonts (.ttf) or (.otf) by installing font-manager either by synaptic or apt-get.
Manually installation of required fonts,
(2) By login as a root...
a) Run Deepin File Manager and make a mscorefonts directory in /usr/local/share/fonts
so it is like /usr/local/share/fonts/mscorefonts.
b) Manually copy all microsoft true-type .ttf fonts into this "/usr/local/share/fonts/mscorefonts" directory.
c) As a root, open a shell and run following command.
By manual installation fonts will be available globally to all users and all applications.
59 • varied (by verndog on 2018-01-19 15:56:49 GMT from United States)
Usually I just swiftly glance at the opinions and move on. Surprisingly, I found some very helpful comments this week. I had to peruse the fonts and how to install them. Good information.
Also, at some point I tried Deepin, but eventually gave up because I have an older AMD dual-core with an integrated nivida chip. But there are some good comments on Deepin.
60 • @54 • Just a base (by mandog on 2018-01-20 02:11:28 GMT from Peru)
Lets make this clear Deepin is a DE/ window manager I run it on Arch Linux its nothing more, The Deepin distro runs on Debian yes or no, So if their are any back doors they would have to go through the Debian base as they would for me with Arch Linux, Both Debian/Arch would never allow this to happen so the back-doors is pure FUD as is the FUD about RedHAT and the NSA.
61 • @60 Backdoors and Naivety (by Rev_Don on 2018-01-20 03:33:53 GMT from United States)
Are you really that naive to believe that China would care about what Debian or Arch think? What recourse would Debian, Arch, Redhat, or any of the others have if China decided to place backdoors in their Distro?
No, I don't have a tin foil hat on and I'm not certain that there are any Chinese Back Doors in ANY Linux Distro, but I didn't just fall off of the turnip truck and know that they very well could if they wanted to and NOBODY could do anything about it.
62 • Doesn't matter. (by Garon on 2018-01-20 15:41:58 GMT from United States)
Rev_Don is correct. There is no relevance to the base being Arch or Debian, which Deepin runs on. As I said, they can do anything they want to with it and as Rev_Don said, NOBODY could do anything about it. That's just the way it is.
63 • Root Log-In (57) (by Winchester on 2018-01-20 16:18:12 GMT from United States)
Alpine Linux allows root log-in , is much more secure than Windows (especially XP) , runs extremely fast in RAM, and doesn't seem to have a built-in backdoor.
Personally,I decided to add another non-root user to the system but,it's optional.
4M Linux allows a root user log-in as well. I am sure that there's more.
Puppy Linux doesn't re-install is nonsense. If one still has installation media and it worked once,it can work the same way a second time. Not installed through Windows. Installed from a disc ..... frugal install to ext3 partition. Can even be installed "frugal" inside of another Linux OS's partition.
64 • Installation of ANY desired Linux (by Fonty Funtoos on 2018-01-21 00:05:09 GMT from Canada)
@ # 63
If done manually, Installation of ANY desired Linux does not require any sci-fi installer and that can be done as easy as 1) Create Required Partition 2) Transfer Required Files and 3) Install boot loader and transfer system a.k.a make system boot-able. Not going into details, just figure out HOW by yourselves on spare HDD.
65 • Above Post # 64 (by Winchester on 2018-01-21 05:33:32 GMT from United States)
I know that.
The last part of my post # 63 was regarding the erroneous complaint in post # 3 that Puppy Linux "wouldn't even re-install".
I suppose that I was not very clear in that regard.
I just can't follow the line of thought in post # 3. Do they suspect that the running operating system "wirelessly" altered the installation media?? It doesn't seem possible to me outside of perhaps damage to the hardware .... which should be able to be ruled out in this case because the same poster has stated in recent weeks that they continue to use the same hardware or hard drive.
66 • @65 Damage to hardware (by Rev_Don on 2018-01-21 15:06:49 GMT from United States)
I run into people continuing to run their computers with failing hardware all the time. They blame the software or some cosmic power instead of the actual cause of their problems, often because they don't know how to determine what the problem actually is. Some will simply say if it works at all it can't be bad, or it runs well enough, and a few will own up and admit they don't have (or are unwilling to spend) the money to replace it.
To quote the great Forrest Gump "Stupid is as Stupid does".
67 • Rooting out (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2018-01-21 17:39:17 GMT from United States)
Actually, "Foolish is as Foolish does"; the Forrest Gump movie was an excellent demonstration of the difference between intelligence and wisdom (or stupidity and foolishness).
That said, when it's time to use the power of root, shouldn't there be an ("advanced") option on the permission GUI for setting the duration of persistence, and shouldn't that apply to all operations until expired? Refusal to provide such an elementary thing seems like passive-aggressive harassment.
68 • Above (by Winchester on 2018-01-22 00:03:00 GMT from United States)
Maybe,however the log-in display manager is obviously a GUI tool. Log-in as "root" user if needed or if you so choose. Then log-out and log-in as another user. Using distribution(s) which have this option available.
SpaceFM file manager has an option to open a "root" window .... under OpenSUSE Tumbleweed ,anyway (maybe under PClinuxOS as well). You can then launch any application as "root" via SpaceFM file manager root window simply by going to /usr/share/applications or wherever there are desktop file launchers .... /usr/local/share/. The duration of time expires when you close the SpaceFM root window and any windows opened through it.
"su" from the command line is a non-GUI way of operating as the root user. Anything that is done after "su" will be done as root until you "exit".
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