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1 • Periodic Table of Distros (by David Hartigan on 2017-09-25 01:27:56 GMT from Australia)
I love the Periodic Table of Distros, that'd make a very nice wallpaper!
2 • @1 Periodic Table (by Bill S on 2017-09-25 02:44:12 GMT from United States)
Yes, nice wallpaper. But for a moment I thought it was the start of that old Breakout game! lol
3 • Linux distros: clear download: colored, labelled, logical. (by Greg Zeng on 2017-09-25 02:58:16 GMT from Australia)
https://distrowatch.com/images/other/periodic-table-of-distro.png
Google Images led to many versions of the above chart. This seems the most logical.
4 • Korora (by stalled man on 2017-09-25 03:02:51 GMT from Australia)
Korora codename "Bloat". I love their sense of humour!
5 • Table Omissions (by Winchester on 2017-09-25 03:17:41 GMT from United States)
Slackel , SliTAZ, ArchBox , PALDO , AV Linux ..... some of the best distributions out there which actually serve a purpose.
Not included in the table. Maybe due to being underrated / popularity level as opposed to quality level??
Contrast the above distributions against BackSlash Linux which just seems to be a poor man's NetRunner / Maui / KDE Neon type of distribution only made to appear more like a MacOS system in its theme.
6 • Correction (by Winchester on 2017-09-25 03:31:15 GMT from United States)
SliTAZ is actually on the table but,not the others mentioned above ..... and I didn't see Clear Linux on there either. Clear OS .... yes but Clear Linux .... didn't see it on the table.
7 • Periodic Table of Distros (by Terry on 2017-09-25 03:35:07 GMT from United States)
Very creative! To be 100 percent complete, it would be nice to see all the active linux distributions listed on the table. That would be something!!!!
8 • backslash (by Hoos on 2017-09-25 05:11:18 GMT from Singapore)
" ...BackSlash skips this step and, instead, sets up an account with the username "administrator" which can be accessed with the password "root". This administrator account logs in automatically when we boot the computer, suggesting security is taking a backseat to convenience with this distribution."
Sounds a little questionable that a distro using the Ubiquity installer would deliberately choose to change the installation process that way. Does the distro inform the user they should change the password as soon as practicable?
9 • W3C obviously bought by Hollywood (by Gerald Morris on 2017-09-25 06:05:44 GMT from United States)
This latest degeneration of the W3C demonstrates how Big Capital AGAIN has bought another body once dedicated to protecting computing freedom, at least in theory. MANDATING that browsers MUST roll DRM filth into their code violates the privacy and security of every web browser on the planet, in principle. So Big Media intends too.
To ultimately prevail against this cabal requires dedicated, disciplined resistance. Folk should reject all corrupted browsers; refusing to permit them on their hardware, period. Don't buy corrupted systems, or surf websites which comply with the W3C. Since Big Media often pays advertising money to websites based on how many hits, this can adversely effect their ill gotten profits.
10 • Omissions (by ptyerman on 2017-09-25 07:19:11 GMT from Germany)
No Linux Lite mentioned in the Ubuntu section either. With all the missing distro's in this table, it's FAR from complete!
11 • @9 (by Juan on 2017-09-25 08:53:24 GMT from Brazil)
+1
DRM=closed web (not open) or web killer. :(
12 • DRM Extensions must be non-free? Nonsense! (by luvr on 2017-09-25 09:30:34 GMT from Belgium)
So, we are supposed to take it at face value that DRM extensions MUST be non-free because otherwise, the encryption that they require cannot be made "secure"?
That's just a gigantic load of bullcrap! Ignoring the fact that DRM is, by definition, "Digital Restrictions Malware" and doesn't work anyway, there's no reason why encryption couldn't be handled by freely verifiable code (not to say "Free Software") whatsoever. Otherwise, things like the Belgian eID Software modules (see "https://eid.belgium.be") could not be implemented as they are.
Paranoiacs like the the media industry mogols don't deserve our trust. I just hope that, even if browsers may be forced to include the Digital Restrictions Malware extensions in future, they will continue to allow users to disable them--in a SIMPLE and straightforward way.
13 • Wrong opinion poll (by OstroL on 2017-09-25 10:01:18 GMT from Poland)
Its a wrong opinion poll. There is no way to say, I prefer Unity, but don't prefer Yunit. Should I care for "Yunit?"
14 • Linux lite (by davidnotcoulthard on 2017-09-25 10:22:37 GMT from Indonesia)
@10 Linux Lite is in the 3rd period, part of the *Debian* section
15 • DRM (by Mike W. on 2017-09-25 12:06:39 GMT from )
We should always use Restrictions for the R in DRM to make it clear to everyone, not just those of us technically aware of what they want to do to us.
I am sure DRM will be eventually be used to keep us from seeing the source code we need to eliminate intrusive overlays and loud sounds used by some advertisers. Ad blocking and even blocking cookies that track us across the web may be threatened.
We have already seen the flash cookies that can't be deleted by clearing them in the browser. I am sure they will work on cross site cookies hidden from us by the Digital Restrictions Manager.
16 • Which browsers will remain DRM-free? (by curious on 2017-09-25 12:10:48 GMT from Germany)
Another victory for the MAFIAA.
So which browsers will remain uncorrupted?
For *real* security reasons, I wouldn't like to have to freeze my browser version and completely stop updating. (Although I got tired of the Firefox rat-race ages ago...)
17 • Pale Moon is EME-free (by a on 2017-09-25 12:19:32 GMT from France)
I switched to Pale Moon a few weeks ago because I was tired of Mozilla making Firefox worse and worse at almost every update, requiring a growing number of addons to fix it… Addons that would stop working in the near future!
I’m glad to read that Pale Moon’s authors are anti-DRM and do not plan to implement EME, at the end of this page: https://www.palemoon.org/survey2017/
"out of principle as well as our users' desire, we will keep the browser completely free of DRM"
18 • Wayland tweaked Mir (by cykodrone on 2017-09-25 13:21:39 GMT from Canada)
Instead of Canonical getting behind Wayland like everybody else is, they're trying to avoid egg on their face (wasting time and money developing a proprietary graphics server) by slapping baind-aids on Mir to play nice with Wayland. Then they wonder why people are leaving them in droves, one bad decision after another. Sometimes I wonder if Red Hat and Canonical are in a race to see who can be the MS of the Linux world. smh
19 • Periodic Table (by DaveW on 2017-09-25 13:22:19 GMT from United States)
I do like the table. However, it does have at least three duplicate symbols: An, Ge, Sa.
20 • Mir (by dragonmouth on 2017-09-25 13:39:34 GMT from United States)
Why "teach Mir to talk to Wayland" instead of adopting Wayland itself???
21 • DRM (by Jesse on 2017-09-25 13:43:27 GMT from Canada)
@12: >> "So, we are supposed to take it at face value that DRM extensions MUST be non-free because otherwise, the encryption that they require cannot be made "secure"? ... there's no reason why encryption couldn't be handled by freely verifiable code"
Yes, DRM must be non-free. The reason is the module doing the decryption of media must have some secrets in order to be able to perform its decryption without the user knowing how it works. This means that either the decryption process or the decryption key must be kept secret, typically both, because if you have one you can work out the other.
DRM is the answer to the question: How do we give someone an encrypted message and let them decode it without giving them the decryption key? To do that, you have to be able to hide the key. To hide the key, you need to hide how it is acquired/used. This requires the method be closed. If the DRM code was open, I could just edit one line and tell my player to print out its decryption key after its loaded into memory.
22 • Options and Mir (by Jesse on 2017-09-25 13:50:19 GMT from Canada)
>> "There is no way to say, I prefer Unity, but don't prefer Yunit."
Yunit is Unity, they are the same code. Yunit is the continuation of Unity.
>> Why "teach Mir to talk to Wayland" instead of adopting Wayland itself?
Wayland is not an implementation, it is a protocol. Mir is both the name of a piece of software AND a protocol. Teaching the Mir software to speak Wayland is easier and faster than writing a Wayland implementation from scratch. This way lots of projects can use Mir as a Wayland implementation rather than each desktop writing its own implementation of Wayland. It is a big resource saver.
>> they're trying to avoid egg on their face (wasting time and money developing a proprietary graphics server) by slapping baind-aids on Mir"
Mir is not proprietary.
23 • Periodic Table (by Foo2foo on 2017-09-25 14:56:27 GMT from United States)
The table has incorrect dates for many Distros and leaves out a lot of huge distros simply because it uses Distrowatch's ranking. While Distrowatch's ranking system is about as good as we can get, it is not perfect, and a accurate table like this deserves some more work than website hits. The table should be based on forking presidence from the partner distro, importance of the distro in the Linux eco system, the amount of users and activity.
24 • review hardware (by PaulW on 2017-09-25 14:58:16 GMT from United States)
Jess FGS man that hardware should be a print spool trying to run modern stuff on decade old stuff kinda what should be expected. of course it doesn't run well in Vbox doesn't have the hardware for it. does the floppy and 4x cd work?
25 • DRM and W3C (by DaveW on 2017-09-25 15:36:51 GMT from United States)
I don't do any media streaming from sites like Netflix. Just stuff like MLB, NHL, and generic YouTube. Is this going to affect me?
Even if it doesn't, I do think the DRM decision is wrong.
26 • DRM and EME (by David on 2017-09-25 15:53:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
When I first heard of this I too was concerned, like Jesse, that "any standards compliant web browser must feature non-free, secret code". I've checked at W3C and this turns out to be NOT the case. They state that "EME standardizes only the discovery hooks, which don't contain any of the DRM itself" and EME "can be implemented in open source … since EME doesn't mandate any particular CDM implementations." Unless I've misunderstood, this means the secret code will still be downloaded, but when you run the content rather than when you install a plug-in. They also state that EME in browsers will be optional and capable of being disabled by the user: the format is part of the standard for HTML, but not the presence.
Are the protesters confusing DRM with EME? Are they panicking unnecessarily?
https://www.w3.org/2017/07/EME-backgrounder.html
27 • DRM and EME (by Jesse on 2017-09-25 16:09:11 GMT from Canada)
@26:
I recommend going back and re-reading the document you linked to as I believe there is some misunderstanding here. To clear up a few things:
1. Your posts says EME can be implemented as open source. However, the W3C's document reads: "The EME API allows interaction in the browser with simple clear key decryption as well as complex DRM systems for high-value video....It is not possible to implement a fully functional EME in free software, due to the closed nature of the encryption required by DRM."
2. The secret code will be baked into compliant browsers, with (it seems) the option of adding on more DRM implementations later. Only one approach is mandated by the standard, but more add-on DRM can be added. Thsoe are the parts that will be downloaded separately.
3. The EME can be disabled by the user (at least in theory) but the code is still in the browser and still closed. Which means we cannot audit it.
4. You're correct that EME is not an HTML standard, but it is still a web standard. (Both EME and HTML are web standards by the W3C.) All W3C compliant browsers will need to implement EME.
28 • Favorite desktop environment... (by Bobbie Sellers on 2017-09-25 16:24:53 GMT from United States)
I voted for KDE's Plasma but not for Plasma 5 which is not finished.
My favorite was KDE's Desktop Environment 3.5.9 or
KDE Plasma 4.14.18 both of which werecompletely usable.
and polished like jewels.
I only have a slight hope that KDE, the people, will stop using terminals
and start using their own distribution as they develop the next version.
I assume they are using terminals because they leave so much out
of Plasmas 4 and Plasma 5 at initial releases. If they were using
KDE they would realize that the parts they have not replaced yet
are valuable and deal with the un-copyable digital task bar clock and the
missing plugin and extensions to the K editors which let one
insert files. It is easy enough to make a nice looking interface in
KDE Plasma 5 but it requires extra steps to get things done.
bliss- 11 years of KDE's desktop environment productivity
29 • The W3C, encrypted media and software freedom (by Tim on 2017-09-25 16:33:43 GMT from United States)
Kudos for you excellent article on the new proposal. It gives me a better understanding of the issues.
I, for one (of many, I hope), wish to maintain software freedom. Dou you think it is probable that there will be new, fully free browsers that bypass this mess?
30 • DRM (by Victor Nikolaev on 2017-09-25 16:33:59 GMT from United States)
Thank you Jesse for the great "Opinion" part! Very important for everybody to understand what is going on with web standards. Even the father of WWW has betrayed his creation in this process. Looks like appeals were not considered at all, there is no intent to even release the information on who voted for and against the DRM in HTML5, no transparency ever happen in this process. Very, very sad!
31 • Free browsers (by Jesse on 2017-09-25 16:44:46 GMT from Canada)
>> " Do you think it is probable that there will be new, fully free browsers that bypass this mess?"
Probably. GNU already has a Firefox fork called, if memory serves, IceCat. And Debian maintained their own fork of Firefox called Iceweasel for years. I suspect most of the pro-free distributions will ship completely libre forks of Firefox if the browser implements EME.
There are other, existing free browsers which probably stand to gain more (in terms of userbase) by not including DRM than they do implementing it. I'll be interested in seeing where browsers such as Epiphany and QupZilla, for example, land on this issue.
32 • framing (by dogma on 2017-09-25 16:56:31 GMT from United States)
We have to be careful with words. Note that Jesse is accepting the framing of DRM "protection".
33 • @22 I stand corrected (by cykodrone on 2017-09-25 19:24:16 GMT from Canada)
You are right, Mir is NOT proprietary, just heavily supported and used by Canonical and Ubuntu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(software)
34 • @ 22 Unity (by adamek on 2017-09-25 20:01:19 GMT from United States)
"Yunit is Unity, they are the same code. Yunit is the continuation of Unity."
I don't think so. Unity is still available Ubuntu 14.04, 16.04, 17.04 and in 17.10 development repos. Its still Ubuntu, and Ubuntu had not thrown it away, so Yunit can't be a continuation of it. Not like Mageia being one of the continuations of Mandriva.
Unity code is open source, so can be copied. But, not a continuation.
Ubuntu is still discussed in at Ubuntu Forums here, https://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=427 and there are at least 2 Ubuntu 17.10 Unity live installable isos created by Ubuntu users. You can find them in this thread; https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2372237
35 • Yunit and Unity (by Jesse on 2017-09-25 20:10:29 GMT from Canada)
@34: "I don't think so. Unity is still available Ubuntu 14.04, 16.04, 17.04 and in 17.10 development repos."
You are talking about Unity 7, I am talking about Unity 8 and Yunit. Unity 7 runs on desktops only and does not run on mobile devices, which is why it is not mentioned in the poll. Yunit is the continuation of Unity 8 which Canonical stopped working on back in April. Unity 8 is the desktop interface used by Ubuntu Touch devices and Yunit is what the project is called now that it is no longer maintained by Canonical.
On a side note, packages are not dropped from old repositories when they are no longer supported. They are static and left in place.
36 • SubGraph (by Dave Postles on 2017-09-25 20:14:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Does anyone have any comments on this iteration?
37 • Opinion on the DRM Future of Internet ! (by EqUiN0x_CoD3r on 2017-09-25 21:33:14 GMT from Greece)
As far as I know about close-source softwares and Browsers Independency of over the Web.
W3C must reconsider the fact that Online Business should control how his content is displayed in order to preserve their privacy and copyrights and made a standard an non-secure protocol is putting not just newbies in danger, is putting ALL in danger.
Example:
Today you approve the DRM standard, tomorrow my dear friend X021m find the decryption key with some debugging and Wireshark to able to compromise the encryption system but found a buffer overflow and is exploitable and is capable to run remote code on user browser at user-level. This could give a very powerful tool to not just security research, black hat hackers, it will give to entire internet, Advertiser companies, Government companies and the most dark places of the net access to our entire technology life.
I thing that W3C must learn that if business wants get encryption, must first learn to code, because make an web standard something that is entirely out of subject ( because a common media player is out of subject ) is just break the philosophy of the Internet developed by ARPANET on his start.
Remember something, if you make this an Standard only will make developers create new ways to fight against an censored internet and YOU KNOW THAT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE WHEN YOU CODE !!!
38 • Periodic Table - How ordered? (by James on 2017-09-25 22:25:42 GMT from Australia)
How is the periodic table shown ordered? I thought it would be popularity amongst related distributions but no, it seems just a random ordered bunch within distro family.
39 • DRM (by denflen on 2017-09-26 01:50:18 GMT from United States)
Reading the article about DRM is about the most depressing thing to happen to the open software community since the onset of Microsoft's Secure Boot several years ago. I made it through that and hopefully will make it through this DRM crap, but Damn!! What's next?
40 • DRM (by qwerty1234 on 2017-09-26 10:48:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
The problems with the WWW aren't due to 'big capital', they're due to terrorists, paedophiles and other abusers. If this DRM helps remove them, I'm all for it.
41 • @40 It doesn't. (by curious on 2017-09-26 13:07:00 GMT from Germany)
This Digital Restriction Malware will do absolutely NOTHING to stop "terrorists, pedophiles and other abusers". It is not meant to.
DRM is ONLY there to prevent you from watching videos that you have (probably) already paid for *without* informing the provider that you are watching it. Its about the corporations in the MAFIAA controlling their users.
Terrorists don't want to rent out video files to you, so they will not be affected.
42 • Why no Xfce in the poll? (by Charles Burge on 2017-09-26 17:23:30 GMT from United States)
I thought the poll options were really incomplete, and I think that is reflected in the fact that 29% or respondents chose "other". It leaves me wondering how many of those "other" votes are from users, like me, who prefer Xfce.
43 • Periotiic Table for Distros (by Jordan on 2017-09-26 19:55:45 GMT from United States)
Wonderful idea. It's being picked apart a bit as to exacting, but it's a great start. It will improve with time I am sure!
44 • @42: (by dragonmouth on 2017-09-26 21:26:50 GMT from United States)
Is there XFCE version for mobile devices? If there isn't, that's why it was not included.
45 • Mobile UI poll & Periodic Table (by M.Z. on 2017-09-26 22:13:09 GMT from United States)
@42
"Why no Xfce in the poll?"
The poll is specifically about mobile based versions of Linux DEs. To my knowledge the XFCE project has stuck totally with the traditional mouse based desktop environment & is staying away from touch based mobile interfaces. Has that changed? I checked the XFCE site & didn't notice anything.
You can see announcements for projects for KDE & Gnome on smart phones here:
https://www.kde.org/announcements/kde-purism-librem5.php
& here:
https://www.gnome.org/news/2017/09/gnome-foundation-partners...
It's also worth noting that KDE has an actual website dedicated to their mobile version & seems to have some solid experimental versions of their plasma mobile version working in videos there:
https://plasma-mobile.org/
To me it seems like Gnome lost it's way on the desktop while trying to integrate mobile features that few users wanted into a hybrid of a mobile UI & a traditional desktop. They could theoretically be ahead in the mobile style User Interface; however, KDE has been showing me videos for what feels like a long time of actual mobile specific versions of their software. On top of that KDE seem to be going on what I find a more sensible route & re-using parts of their software while creating a new phone focused UI. Going that way means neither UI is deeply compromised for the sake of the other & both function well at their very different tasks. I think the KDE route is better than the Unity/Yunit route, & what little sense I get of a similar route from Gnome.
Anyway, that's my take on the mobile UI competition between KDE, Yunit, & Gnome, but I'm not sure what all the people selecting other are wanting in a Linux based mobile UI.
----------------------
On the periodic table thing, did anyone else notice that Manjaro & Mageia are both using the Ma symbol? I think that needs some rethinking.
46 • DRM and EME (by Ian on 2017-09-26 22:19:57 GMT from United States)
@27:
From what I understood from the document linked in @26, the only requirement to meet the W3C standard is for a browser to implement EME with Clear Key, without mandating its support for any other DRM system, and Clear Key does not require any non-free code (see the section entitled 'EME in Open Source'). This would mean that one would still need binary blobs to decrypt certain types of DRM (such as that used by netflix), but that those blobs would not need to be shipped with the browser. Am I wrong?
47 • desktop interface on your smart phone (by mini-animal on 2017-09-27 07:17:35 GMT from Norway)
I would use Openbox, dmenu and dunst, with only tekstfile configs.
48 • About the phone interfaces… (by a on 2017-09-27 12:12:00 GMT from France)
Gnome: the developers are more concerned about breaking things regularly than making something useful and stable, so I don’t want that.
KDE: from my limited experience with it, I know that it is unstable (bugged) and unintuitive, so no.
Unity: the last time I tried it, I wasn’t even able to open a terminal or open the list of installed applications, so… no?
So I guess a smartphone GUI should be something else, but I don’t know what.
49 • Smart Phone Interface (by Winchester on 2017-09-27 12:45:15 GMT from United States)
Enlightenment seems as though it would be best suited for cellular phones and the like. E17 / E21.
50 • User interfaces for GNU/Linux mobile devices (by Geo. on 2017-09-27 13:19:23 GMT from Canada)
Glad mobile OS work is continuing. I think it's the key to GNU/Linux long term survival.
51 • Xfce is for mobile devices too (by debianxfce on 2017-09-28 01:03:04 GMT from Finland)
To @45, Xfce with the Whisker many is much more practical in a mobile device than different popup menus and swiping menus in current android phones. You can change the size of the whisker menu items so you can use that with a finger too. I have use Debian Xfce in a Tatung 10" tabletpc. No need for separate mobile version. Xfce uses less hardware resources than kde and gnome, Xfce is freely configurable and Xfce is stable. Xfce is the best.
52 • Keep Your Blobs to Yourself (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-09-28 07:21:23 GMT from United States)
Actor-victims say pedos run Hollywood, famously the world capitol of smut. Browsers, bend over for ethical DRM profit extraction...
Browsers don't yet have baked-in pubkey crypto for webmail. But yay, here comes DRM. Browser devs have priorities. PLEASE CORPORATE CREEPS.
Movie addicts, have closed blobs or devices for moar. Why pollute web standards? You use Skype, a blob. You should make vid calls on qTox or RetroShare, but it's your choice. Why do you insist on turning FOSS browsers into blob drops? Once DRM is everywhere, you'll be sorry. Look where it's going:
https://www.wired.com/2016/09/hp-printer-drm/
DRM + FOSS = nerd doublethink. Closed code propaganda fails. Picking one FOSS lib at random, just encrypt with a side-channel salt good for 6-12 hours.
https://github.com/stealth/opmsg
"opmsg does not rely on a web-of-trust which in fact never really worked. Rather, due to ubiquious messenging, its much simpler today to verify the hashsum of the persona via additional communication paths. E.g. if you send the pubkey via plain mail, use SMS and twitter to distribute the hash, or send a picture/selfie with the hash and something that uniquely identifies you. Using two additional communication paths, which are unrelated to the path that you sent the key along, you have a high degree of trust."
53 • The Periodic Table Of Linux Distros (by Ilmar on 2017-09-28 07:35:13 GMT from Latvia)
Very gooooooooooooooooood idea! Respect to author!
54 • Linux for Mobile devices (by ShawnJ on 2017-09-28 17:12:19 GMT from United States)
I truly appreciate the fact that developers are developing a true Linux Distro for cellphones and tablets. What puts me off with the the listed UI choices, is that all of these environments have traditionally been very heavy, resource hogging DE's that, aside from Unity were developed primarily for desktop/ notebook users. Because tablets and cellphones have much tighter rescource requirements than desktop computers, I believe that something else should be developed.
The QT development toolkit can definately be used, as it was used previously on an OS that was developed by Nokia, and has also been used quite well with LXQT, but none of the suggested choices make sense to me.
55 • More on Mobile Linux UIs (by M.Z. on 2017-09-28 19:53:33 GMT from United States)
@48
It seems to me like you are complaining mostly about the still experimental nature of the mobile versions of the projects you are talking about. I think we can all acknowledge that none of the projects are there yet on mobile & assume that the poll is more a question of what you'd be most interesting in seeing as a new open UI on a mobile platform, especially if it were given proper time to mature & stabilize. That being said Gnome does seem to break a lot between desktop releases, so I can see the hesitation there.
@51
"...I have use Debian Xfce in a Tatung 10" tabletpc. No need for separate mobile version..."
I like the XFCE Whisker Menu too & quite a lot given how configurable, fast & easy it is. That being said & acknowledging that finding XFCE useful on a tablet is interesting, it still looks to me that you are advocating sticking a square peg into a round hole. Even if our hypothetical XFCE peg is so small (aka light on resources) that it can go into the hole, it will fall right through & land on it's face because it is meant to fit the desktop perfectly & has no previsions, or certainly none that I know of or anyone has pointed out, for taking over all the functions of a mobile UI. From what I have seen it looks like going from a desktop UI down to tablet, or going from a mobile UI up to a tablet, is easy & often creates a fairly useful & functional end result. It's trying to go from desktop down multiple levels to a phone, or doing the reverse for that matter, that tends to end quite badly.
@54
"...What puts me off with the the listed UI choices, is that all of these environments have traditionally been very heavy..."
As per my link above, the KDE mobile project seems to be reusing as much of their software as possible while adapting it specifically for a mobile interface. That seems to be the right approach to me. I doubt I'll have any good devices to try KDE mobile on, but it looks like a good project that is very much tailored to the phone & not at all trying to put everything & the kitchen sink from KDE into a phone. Perhaps that's just my impression, but they certainly haven't tried to jam a whole desktop UI into a phone, so it seems likely that they are tailoring their components to meet the normal RAM & CPU requirements for a mobile device. Given how much they have already customized things to fit the phone in the intro vids I can't really see the argument that they wouldn't be sensitive to the resource constraints on a phone. That being said I could see KDE trying to target med to high end phones, because they certainly haven't gone after low end desktops since KDE 4 came out.
56 • A different but better simple. (by Theopoli on 2017-09-29 13:06:49 GMT from United States)
Have tried tested, installed, and run many Linux operating systems on Continuum mainframe computer, Relativity desktop computers, custom portable (bigger than laptop) computers, Laptop computers, Notebook computers, Tablets, and Mobile phones.
Discovered with over 30,000 distributions of LinuxOS (most are still classified by
the very industry that created them), but the mainstream still have over 4,000 distributions selections for their personal usage.
Epicyclan Processor Computers:
Quantum Adaptive Linux runs best on that Epic mainframe computer.
IBM 390x:
Red Hat Enterprise Linux runs best on that series of mainframe computers.
(Note many other distributions can also run on this architecture.)
The Intel Core i7-Ultra, Core i7-Extreme processors:
QubeOS, Korora, Chapeau, Fedora, Gentoo, Debian GNU/Linux, Sabayon, Bluestar, TAILS, Heads, Knoppix, and many other Linux distributions can run on these mainstream desktop computers.
The Intel Core i7, Core i5, Core i3 families along with the AMD multi core processors:
Can run most Linux distributions easily. An easy Linux distribution is Bella Linux which requires no updates (leaves the User alone,) and very easy to experiment, and become comfortable for daily use (former Microsoft Windows, MacOS-X, UNIX user.)
Laptops and Notebook computers:
There is presently attempts by the processor manufacturers to simplify their product lines to compete with the very efficient ARM processors. Doing this has made the processor less able to run the more feature heavy Linux, UNIX, and Windows v10 operating systems.
Computer manufacturers has gone out of their way to maximized profit without thinking about how a User will be able to run an operating system adequately.
Apple iphones and Android phones:
Believe the difference is that many if not all Tablets and cellular phones have a version of ARM processor or an revised one. Thus trying to run a full feature operating system designed for computer (CISC) processors instead of ARM (RISC) processors surely makes a mess.
Since most mainstream laptop and notebook computer processors have become energy efficient, probably now wise to design a new cellular phone with that four core (4x32bit) Intel Core i5 or Core i3 processor family to support all the mainstream desktop computer operating systems.
Since phone Users have the gift of "gab", may as well design a energy conversion method so that the human voice can be used to charge the lithium battery. Not that difficult.
Someone has already power their cellular phone on vegetables (a messy affair.)
Who said the User can not wear their vegetables to work.
Phone manufacturers went to simpler ARM (CISC) processors because they consume less energy. Having a phone with an ARM eight core (8x32bit CISC cores) is not the same as a desktop computer with an Intel or AMD (8x32bit RISC cores).
Some folks say they can make a Raspberry PI type of mini computer do anything.
There are no substitute for torque, horsepower, and quiescent threshold point value.
Keep it simple... that Raspberry Pi will go only so far. Users will necessarily "redesign"
their little "hobby test-board."
After using Linux for many years, I find Linux distributions with the Xfce desktop environment to be the best behaved and the most compatible with most mainstream computer hardware. Now maybe this is where the software community should focus their efforts to create a feature compatible LinuxOS for these ARM (CISC) cellular phones.
With that as experience in a year, then move on to having a truly great LinuxOS cellular phone that have "Holographic Projection", "Tunneling LASER", "Digital Capture Multi-Phasic Oscillascope", "Thermolathe", "Relativity Atmosphereic Forecasting", and "Human Biometric Measuring System for all five senses." This is why we use LinuxOS because all the hardware are supported (almost.) There must Linux running that 6 million dollar Fluke Meter. Maybe than the remainder of humanity can have fun when our life saving assignments are completed.
Tied of all the industry bickering among the principals.
No real hardware progress, just incremental creep.
While its true that first comes hardware, net comes firmware, and last come software.
Lets us not blame the software yet. Make certain that the hardware all is all functional,
not like the recent ARM, Intel, AMD "hardware bugs" problems.
Remember the Hewlett-Packard HP-40 calculator "Lookup Table" irk that gave false answers from the 1990s.
While "touch screens" invented by Hewlett-Packard are useful for most folks.
Then there are folks like me that have dry skin, no matter how many times the cellular phone screen is "swiped" the device responses very slow or not at all.
Therefore electrician's choice recording device is a laptop computer (with keyboard and mouse,) not a touch screen cellular phone.
LinuxOS has made it possible for the everyday user to "have it all", from GPS, drones, quantum computers, Schmidt-Cassigrain Cadiodioptric Telescopes, Lathes, CNC machines, HAM radio, Satellites, EMR devices, QMS devices, AWR devices, and many other industry specific hardware all working well together because of Linux.
Thank you Mr. Torvolds.
Thanks again to the Linux Development and Testing Community.
Ye hath madeth our lives easy.
57 • drm (by Walt on 2017-09-29 16:50:52 GMT from United States)
Have always considered drm to be digitally ruined media.
58 • Wrong direction, chaps! (by Basil Fernie on 2017-09-30 02:47:22 GMT from )
Why try to squeeze a desktop/laptop experience onto a mobile handset? Look, cellphones have ample resources (does your laptop have an octocore CPU?) apart from tiny touchscreen real estate. Why not get the guys who have decades of experience in designing UIs and user experiences for mobiles to tackle the job?
I refer of course to Jolla (ex-REAL Nokia) and their Sailfish OS. True Linux base, very slick UI, compatibility with most Android apps, intended to slide right onto quite a wide range of currently-using-Android phones/tablets (Sony Xperia X anyone?). Ready for ARM and x86-x64. Run a test in a VBox and report back. Take one of your less-used smart-phones and replace that Droid with a natural Sailfish. Let us know how it pans out.
Maybe, before you hit the Download button, you could take a look at
wiki Sailfish_OS,
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_operating_systems
Bear in mind that Russia, understandably suspicious of software coming from the USA, have already signed with Jolla to make Sailfish their official OS for government devices. China looks likely to follow suit. That's the two biggest countries in the BRICS bloc blazing a Google-free, DRM-free trail.
59 • Sailfish OS (by a on 2017-09-30 13:28:54 GMT from France)
@58
I went to sailfishos.org and couldn’t get any real information out of it. That web site is a disaster. Is it open-source or not? On what phones does it work? How can I get it? Information is very much hidden in a ton of marketing garbage.
60 • A Jolly Mess (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-09-30 16:38:08 GMT from United States)
@59 Sailfish_OS, like its ancestor MeeGo, and Meego's ancestors Maemo and Moblin, may have Freed Open_Source at its core, but the rest is a patchwork of permissive FOSS, strict_socialist FOSS, and proprietary (UI, drivers, SDK, etc) software. Naturally, with extremism on all sides, it's a steep challenge for Jolla.
It's (mostly) Open_Source; that does not mean it's Freed - some open_source software is licensed proprietary. Think NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement).
Jolla does say they aspire to some sort of Freed Open_Source Software licensing … someday … at least acknowledging an unattained (and perhaps unattainable) ideal.
61 • Couldn't find the direction to save it's life (by M.Z. on 2017-09-30 19:38:07 GMT from United States)
@58 -60
"...Look, cellphones have ample resources (does your laptop have an octocore CPU?)..."
You're making some very bad assumptions based purely on the raw number of cores available. Do you have any performance benchmarks to indicate if one ARM processor core has speed closer to an old graphing calculator, or a modern 3.5GHz desktop CPU? It may be closer to the second as a rule, but there is nothing to say that 2 desktop cores couldn't way out gun 8 ARM cores on most every performance benchmark, though the ARM cores would likely do far better at doing lots of small tasks in parallel.
"...Why not get the guys who have decades of experience in designing UIs..."
I'm not sure how long their senior members have been around, but based on project longevity that part could easily describe the teams from either Gnome or KDE. Regardless I still think Gnome 3 is crap & MS made mistakes that I found similar with their Windows 8 UI that fell flat in the market. If MS can dominate the desktop market for decades & fall flat on it's face & Gnome can slide from years of being the top Linux desktop, (to what 3rd or fourth after KDE & XFCE?), then why assume experience means all that much?
It's also well worth noting that even the link you posted indicates the concerns about source code from #59 & 60 are very valid. Why advocate something with a closed UI? Is there any indication that the licensing is actually any better for the user than an Android phone? The fact is Droid runs on top of Linux as well & also contains a mixed bag of open & closed components, so if you want me to go to something else advocating anything less than a fully open alternative looks like a half measure that is beyond pointless to even try. I'm not digging into the licensing, so if it's not fully open Droid is the next best thing & has both market share & momentum already on it's side.
That being said it wouldn't take much to convince me that KDE or some other fully open mobile project was better licensed & had better privacy. I am interested, but I doubt anything that I really want is there yet & ready to go, so for now I would like to try one of the mobile focused projects in the future.
Number of Comments: 61
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Chitwanix OS
Chitwanix OS was an Ubuntu-based distribution that has been crafted to fit the needs of computer users in Nepal. It comes with the Sagarmatha desktop environment (a fork of Linux Mint's Cinnamon) and it also offers various user-friendly enhancements. The developers of Chitwanix OS are cooperating with user communities in Nepal in order to translate the operating system and applications into Nepali, as well as Tharu, Newari, Gurung and Magar languages.
Status: Discontinued
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