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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Text window (by John on 2017-09-18 00:44:03 GMT from United States)
I wonder when Android will put a text window back in?
2 • Mageia (by Winchester on 2017-09-18 02:56:04 GMT from United States)
Just to put it out there,using Mageia,I recommend XFCE or KDE.
Mageia 5 with Gnome was very problematic. I haven't tried the latest Mageia 6 with Gnome and likely will not because, XFCE and KDE work so well under Mageia. There are plenty of other options for Gnome .... CentOS,Fermi,Debian,FrugalWare etc.and the much underrated PALDO .
3 • Spitfire Laptop (by Tran Older on 2017-09-18 04:10:50 GMT from Vietnam)
Never before in the fields of FOSS conflict, so much is coded for so many by so few.
4 • welcome (by tim on 2017-09-18 04:45:51 GMT from United States)
MageiaWelcome is nice, but isn't it similar to (or even identical to) the welcome included in Mint LMDE, SparkyLinux, LinuxLite, PCLinuxOS and others?
I'm reacting to this, mentioned in today's DW review: "The first thing that really sets Mageia apart from many of its competitors is its really nice welcome screen."
In my memory, a couple welcome apps stand out as being especially memorable. Deepin Linux had (past tense b/c I haven't booted it during the past year) an over-the-top, highly graphical, presentation ~~ like animated (javascript?) featurettes covering each of several pre-installed applications. Another standout in my memory is puppyLinux welcome include a button which opened a locally-installed html page which listed LOTS of preinstalled apps. Each was a hyperlink, leading to the application's project page. That clickthru ability to learn (read docs, from the horse's mouth) about each of the various applications was hugely helpful to me.
To me, the UNappealing aspect of many of these welcome apps is that they employ qtwebkit & pop open various web-resident pages into a stripped-down viewer. No urlbar, no toobar; can't read a page, follow a link to read another page then navigate backwards. (Um, maybe you can, maybe I'm expected to realize that Control+LeftArrow kb press performs this action?). To the creators of these "apps": Hello? Please ask my permission/consent before connecting to internet webservers. (ps: seems wrong to presume a net connection will be available at time of welcome) Also, PLEASE provide a way for me to know (copy/bookmark) the url of a reference page, so that I might revisit it using regular web browser.
Has anyone (anyone reading this) run across a "welcome" app that incorporates gamification aspect (badges, checkoff list)? I haven't, and expect it would be both effective and well-received. A checkoff list (state retained across sessions) wouldn't "too kiddy-ish" -- there's probably (hopefully) way more gettingStarted documentation available than I can wade through in one sitting. I would appreciated it if the "welcome app" helped me to keep track of "where I left off, where I intended to continue reading".
5 • Station X (by Dave Postles on 2017-09-18 06:47:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Really? Starting price at £850?
6 • Station X (by lupus on 2017-09-18 07:11:22 GMT from Germany)
I just recently bought a Laptop, now I wish I hadn't cause for 500,-€ I didn't get my moneys worth for this Acer can't handle Linux quite as well as I'd hoped. And it's only i3 no RJ-45 jack no 8 Gigs of Ram and no M2 SSD and no Tux Key.
So overall I wish I had known of Station X before!
7 • DWW thoughts... (by claudecat on 2017-09-18 07:59:14 GMT from United States)
I've been blessed/cursed with lots of free time lately, and one of the things I've found myself doing is traveling down memory lane by (re)reading ancient DWW's and in some cases the comments. What's become apparent to me is that things have sort of become... I dunno... predictable? Don't get me wrong, I find Jesse's reviews and other input as informative as ever, but there's a certain editorial sameness to it all.
Compare that to the old days, when writers like Caitlyn Martin or Robert Storey (or others) would shake things up a bit with their respective styles, be they abrasively factual or think-outside-the-box hilarious (I just read the Storey piece on the economic collapse and how that could benefit Linux - brilliantly absurd or chillingly accurate?).
I miss reading even the over-the-top elitist ramblings of self-proclaimed clinical psychology PhD/FLOSS blowhard Landor! OK, perhaps that's stretching things, but there doesn't seem to be the same level of camaraderie/combativeness in the comments that there once was, which makes things a little... boring? Static anyway. Not as much fun, for me at least.
Maybe this reflects changes in the Linux/FLOSS landscape over the years. Gone are the heady days pre-Gnome 3/Unity, that little window of time during which it seemed like Ubuntu might just make major inroads on the desktop as Microsoft struggled to follow up XP's success. People just don't seem to get as excited as they once did about individual distros or the prospect of taking down the megalomaniacs in Redmond and Cupertino. Maybe, like me, most have settled into their lives, continuing to use their favorite FLOSS software but no longer being quite so vociferous in their evangelism.
Forgive the long post! I guess my point is that I'd love to read some DWW features that have a bit of that old-time flavor. Some humor, some excitement, some enthusiasm. A little less dryness in the writing (no offense Jesse!). Heck, I'd be happy to write something myself. I do have over a dozen distros currently installed, a few of which I don't believe have been reviewed recently.
Or not... Just seems like there's a bit of a lull in the comments (at least) here over the past few years, which I hadn't really noticed until taking this recent trip in the wayback machine. I'd like more fun, that's all. Unless that means we have to start keeping our sticks on the ice again. That got annoying real fast.
8 • Graphical control panels (by Mike W. on 2017-09-18 10:17:23 GMT from United States)
I use both text and graphical control panels when available. I like the idea of graphical because you can have many more settings readily available, especially if you can get a tabbed interface.
Ideally, a graphical panel would also present the command line in at the bottom so users could learn the command line. This is important because it would then allow you to script or schedule the commands.
9 • Mageia 6 review (by Erick BR on 2017-09-18 13:11:27 GMT from Brazil)
Does this latest version make it easy to set up full disk encryption on install? Once I've tested the version 4 in my notebook. I've liked it, looked stunning, but had to replace it because couldn't set it properly to fully encrypt the disk, as I can't afford to let my work data to fall in bad hands in case my machine is lost or stolen. When Distrowatch makes a review, I would suggest also to be checked if the distro installer has a straighforward option to encrypt the disk, or at last the home folder, as it is probably a critical feature for many users out there too.
10 • Archlabs and Nelumbang (by lenn on 2017-09-18 13:37:42 GMT from Canada)
Its nice to see "another" Openbox based distro coming up. It looks like a copy of Nelumbang, which is based on Debian and uploaded in May 2016. There are many Nelum distros around, that are based on Debian and Devuan, and most of them feature the good old Skippy-XD.
And, "Minimo" sounds like something from PCLinuxOS some years ago.
11 • Mixing this up (by Jesse on 2017-09-18 14:32:11 GMT from Canada)
@7: "What's become apparent to me is that things have sort of become... I dunno... predictable? Don't get me wrong, I find Jesse's reviews and other input as informative as ever, but there's a certain editorial sameness to it all. "
I like the way your present your thoughts. Come write for us! Express yourself, get paid, shake things up. We can always use a fresh perspective on the Linux landscape.
12 • Mageia 6 review (by Likeme on 2017-09-18 14:46:08 GMT from Netherlands)
Concerning Mageia and Full Disk Encryption: Yes, it's very easy to setup FDE during installation, and actually it was pretty easy to do this in Mageia 4 as well. You can use a variety of schemes, including LVM, and the Mageia installer is perhaps the most thorough you can find. Regarding FDE, I can't think of a distro that does it better and easier than Mageia.
Mageia has an excellent and very friendly community as well.
13 • GUI without graphical control panel is broken (by curious on 2017-09-18 14:47:11 GMT from Germany)
A desktop environment or GUI is obviously not complete if it can't even provide the graphical tools to configure its own graphical elements.
That said, I like the idea of *also* being able to adjust things in a text-based config file. But that should not be the only way.
14 • @4 and 11: How about tabulate some parts? (by OS2_user on 2017-09-18 15:13:41 GMT from United States)
Like so:
Booted without trouble:__Real_hardware__VM
Graphical installer___:__Yes
Partitioner___________:__Gparted
and so on. It's a bit late to start, but would yet help.
I starting tabulating on distros I tried, but trends soon became clear: many didn't get up to booting.
Anyhoo, I've solved most of my Linux troubles with an old distro called Windows 7. Of late, only advantage Linux had over XP was handles drives over 2T -- formatted w NTFS 3G, which 7 of course initiated.
I'd still like to take an interest in "Linux", but I doubt you want MY perspective here.
15 • Posts 7 & 11 . . . DistroWatch Articles . . (by GregA on 2017-09-18 15:18:02 GMT from United States)
YES! . . . I'm looking forward to Claude's first official article on DW! (really - - he seems to have his pulse on what makes reading more interesting . . ). Perhaps and article about the ABC's of how to submit an article or review in an upcoming DW? Generate more interest . .
16 • RE: #5. Station X and Linux Laptops (by Sam on 2017-09-18 15:22:43 GMT from United States)
Yeah, that is pricey. But so are offerings from System76. The problem I have with these pre-loaded Linux laptops from smaller companies is that they tend to have poor to "meh" build quality and you pay a premium for little more than a Linux distro "guaranteed" to work with your laptop. Most users would be better off buying a mid-grade laptop new or a nice laptop used and installing the distro of their choice (depending on hardware compatibility).
17 • Benefits and drawbacks of using completely free operating systems (by Tim on 2017-09-18 15:33:03 GMT from United States)
Kudos for a well written and balanced little article on free (as in liberty) distros. I have not tried a purely free distro, but I run Arch Linux on my desktop and Fedora Linux on my notebook PC, and I do as much as I can to keep them completely free.
18 • Station X and Linux Laptops (by tonny on 2017-09-18 16:21:10 GMT from Indonesia)
Pricey. I'm content with ~$280 second-hand thinkpad series. Have two (E330 & X220) that have zero problem running linux.
19 • New article submissions (by Jesse on 2017-09-18 16:29:43 GMT from Canada)
@15: Anyone interested in submitting a new article can check out our tips for doing so on our contributing page: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=contributing#writing
20 • Free Distros (by Justin on 2017-09-18 17:07:04 GMT from United States)
I noticed Gentoo isn't on the GNU list. Where do distributions like Gentoo, Linux From Scratch, etc., fall? I'd think they would be okay because you are building software from source yourself, but now I'm not sure.
21 • Control Panel Poll (by cykodrone on 2017-09-18 17:14:44 GMT from Canada)
I voted both. As a rule I'm a lazy bum so if I can point and click, I will, but occasionally there's a tweak or configuration that's not available in the control panel, only then do I dig around. That being said, I use Geany because it can create backup file copies and open/edit practically anything (Gedit went downhill). If I don't like a distro's feature or behaviour (or lack of), I have no problem using a search engine to find out how to change/add/remove it and use the command line if I have to. I remember a very steep learning curve with Windohs, getting it under control and secure was no walk in the park, to me now, Linux distros are a breeze.
Speaking of configuration and settings, I forgot to mention a few things in my review of Devuan a while back, I installed all relevant firmware (this really helps for those struggling with wifi) and Qt 4 Settings for a more uniform Xfce look in apps that utilize Qt. So for those struggling with not working wifi chips, etc, maybe download the full DVD so those firmware packages are available offline before you get completely up an running. I don't use proprietary video drivers, they rarely work perfectly and are always bloated, I much prefer to just use the video chip's firmware and the distro's FOSS graphical server. Debian has never been for skittish n00bs, neither is Devuan, Devuan is just Debian without systemd, other than that, there's very little difference between the two and skill level required to run/tweak them.
22 • Free distros (by Jesse on 2017-09-18 17:18:41 GMT from Canada)
@20:
> >"I noticed Gentoo isn't on the GNU list. Where do distributions like Gentoo, Linux From Scratch, etc., fall? "
The GNU project also maintains a list of popular distributions and lists the reasons why they are not endorsed: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html
Gentoo doesn't make the cut because they offer non-free options. Same with Debian. LFS probably does not qualify as an operating system by GNU standards since it's instructions for building an operating system, not an OS you can install.
23 • reviews. how well the distribution can share hardware. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2017-09-18 18:55:36 GMT from United States)
I generally like the reviews and they save me a lot of time
avoiding some distros. I wish that the reviewer could look
at how well the distros share the same hardware.
On my test bed a salvaged Dell E6420 I have had some
experience with conflicts between otherwise fine distributions.
I have multiple distros installed in order to show them
off at LUG meetings.
Sometimes the various distros will try to seize control of Grub.
Last month I installed the Debian/Edu version 9 and it seems
to have a powerful installation script for the Grub2 boot tool.
When I replaced the aged drive I used Debian/Edu as the base
and have to run it in order to get Grub to recognize the latest
installation. Currently I have tried twice to install Manjaro
with very great care and failed twice to get a bootable installation.
It seems to be a very nice distribution but I guess the LUG will
have to be shown from the bootable disk of
manjaro-kde-17.0.4-stable-x86_64.iso. or maybe this disk
too is getting too old having been in use nearly as long as
the disk it replaced. By the way way I am reading Kernel
panic: Kernel Offset disabled - not syncing: VFS: Unable
to mount root fs on unknown block-block(0,0).
Gotta fix my lunch now before I faint.
bliss on PCLinuxOS64 kde(Plasma 5) 2017.07
24 • @20 (by azuvix on 2017-09-18 20:13:27 GMT from United States)
I think a lot of people misunderstand where the FSF is coming from with that list. Plenty of GNU/Linux distros can be made completely free. Gentoo even has a guide for doing that if you want to, and Slackware can be liberated easily using FreeSlack. I think LFS isn't included because it doesn't come pre-packaged, not many people use it as their sole operating system, the instructions recommend a vanilla Linux kernel (with binary blobs), and software freedom isn't an explicit goal of the project.
The issues come in when you install software from official repositories and/or if the base system already contains non-free software. A well-meaning user can end up with non-free software pulled in as a dependency or have small programs they never use that are non-free on their system without their knowledge. One of the main points of having completely free distros that package software carefully to maintain freedom is so that the user doesn't have to maintain constant vigil over that process. It's much easier if project leaders share your philosophy and you don't have to work against their decisions.
25 • Welcome Screens and Settings Changes (by M.Z. on 2017-09-18 20:29:55 GMT from United States)
@4
"MageiaWelcome is nice, but isn't it similar to (or even identical to) the welcome included in Mint LMDE,..."
I rather like both Mint & Mageia & I can state definitively that the Mageia welcome screen is far more comprehensive & powerful than the Mint welcome screen, although they both contain several similar options. While the Mint equivalent is nice & far more simple, the Mageia welcome screen is far more powerful & quite a bit closer to being a comprehensive guide to set up & admin of the system. The Mint welcome screen launches a couple of important apps & links to some important documentation & while the Mageia version does all that it has quite a few more options spread across several pages & is has setup & configuration hints built in to help you configure repositories, learn about & launch the very comprehensive Mageia Control Center & as DW Weekly mentioned, you can install many of the most popular programs directly in the welcome screen even without launching MCC.
Having played with both I find the Mageia version far more powerful, though Mint certainly has other tools that I like better than the nearest Mageia equivalents.
-------------------------------------------
On the subject of changing settings I chose that 'I prefer to use a control panel', although by the wording I could have easily said that I use that & editing text files. For me the direct editing of files is always plan b & not at all something I prefer, even if I do it on occasion. That being said I do like how digging into the guts of Linux seems to be a more inviting process that it ever felt like on Windows. It could just be my perception, but tweaking things seems to be far more popular & widely done among Linux users & the process digging in & learning seems to far more encouraged. That's something I really like about the Linux community.
26 • 19 • New article submissions -- subject to editorial control. (by OS2_user on 2017-09-18 21:48:39 GMT from United States)
I've already stated that my review -- call it complaint if you wish -- of PCLinuxOS -- didn't get in after three attempts. The ratings numbers go from 1 to 9, but probably anything below a 7 gets tossed. That's simply falsifying.
And I'm now sure that in 2014-2015 my comments here were shadow-banned: after a few, none got out. Also falsifying.
If doesn't fit your notions of promoting Linux -- cheerleading -- you don't want it. Up to a point I'd agree. **But when it's sheerly facts, you are in the wrong to suppress.** So why would anyone with a truly different perspective (than cheerleading) put in effort when certain won't be used?
That attitude of falsifying on top of bad trends in Linux (mostly GUIs) doesn't help your cause. The ill will created likely pops up in forums that you don't control. -- Indeed, if I was a regular anywhere, I'd now be a firm anti-Linuxer, though was promoting it when overjoyed with the 2007 version of PCLinux. -- Read some of the comments in the Linux kernel piece at The Register today. Linux forums are pretty much regarded as toxic.
Now, I'm OUT, and not even going to read responses until maybe next week. Or perhaps never, as there's no reason for me to even check in here anymore, now that I've HAD TO switch to Windows 7. I'm just not able to put up with the nuisances / bad design in Linux.
27 • Poof (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-09-19 00:20:34 GMT from United States)
@7 "taking down ... Redmond and Cupertino" is why I contribue, not forgetting RedTeamBlackHat.
28 • Free OSs (by Bonky Ozmond on 2017-09-19 00:45:45 GMT from Nicaragua)
I haven't tried any of the FSF listed distros for a long time....
For some reason i started to feel conscientious about using one but there was a huge set back
Nothing worked right for me, so i couldnt use it for work.due to some issue couldn't watch movies etc due to codecs and graphics card stuff. needed flash,
I was having to use GFs windows to get things done...
They sound like things have improved a bit so I may give it a go again
I don't know if Manjaro have knocked out a different OS but it sounds a very expensive way to get a OS then you can put the same on a 200gbp laptop for free...
I guess through habits of old but i like to edit settings but i do use graphical tools ...maybe more so when i first install any distro...then when i tinker a bit more i tend to edit text files
29 • begs to be said (by tim on 2017-09-19 02:32:46 GMT from United States)
Hey, I didn't need to look far to debunk the accusation that "ratings less than 6 are deleted". Plenty of 5 (and under) ratings are present in the example I just checked
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ratings&distro=devuan
ps: dear Sourdough, I too have occasionally returned to find that a comment of mine on the dwWeekly has been deleted. (Never a long rant; maybe some silly or overly-sarcastic oneliner) No hard feelings -- i defer to the site owners' judgement on what may, or may not, stand.
30 • @14 (by OstroL on 2017-09-19 08:59:36 GMT from Poland)
>> Anyhoo, I've solved most of my Linux troubles with an old distro called Windows 7. <<
Really? You must be having a very special Windows 7 that can 'see' inside Linux.
Actually, I solve most problems of Windows 10 from Linux.
31 • Too Soft (by Garon on 2017-09-19 12:16:39 GMT from United States)
@26,
And you call yourself an OS_2 user. You just keep thinking that young gun.
32 • Mageia (by Carlos on 2017-09-19 16:14:30 GMT from Portugal)
Mageia is very nice, I'm using it for years.
One improvement that I'd like to see implemented is to scroll up/down through the packages in Rpmdrake with the mouse wheel.
The people at Mageia are fantastic, IME.
33 • Graphical control panel / contributing page (by simpleSimon on 2017-09-19 16:17:17 GMT from Germany)
I voted both methods in "Graphical control panel vs text files" but like to say that I first look for a graphical variant. I think it's important to know what the command line is, how it works and generally use of a text editor, also for Linux beginners like me.
@Jesse
Some weeks ago I downloaded the German translation txt-file, but it looks complete and could
not find any translation errors, that's nice ;)
34 • FSF approved = no codecs (by M.Z. on 2017-09-19 22:43:57 GMT from United States)
@28
"I haven't tried any of the FSF listed distros for a long time....
...For some reason i started to feel conscientious about using one but there was a huge set back
Nothing worked right for me, so i couldnt use it for work.due to some issue couldn't watch movies etc due to codecs and graphics card stuff. needed flash,"
If you want codecs & flash than you don't really want an FSF approved distro. They may be worth trying to see if alternatives like Gnash work well enough for you, but otherwise you have no codecs & hardware compatibility will suffer unless you are sure you use only free drivers.
If you want all the codecs & great hardware compatibility out of the box I suggest PCLinuxOS, but if you don't mind enabling repos or want something that's not a rolling release then Mageia is a great alternative. And of course there is always Mint, which I think is a little bit less secure than Mageia, but has more software & can very easily pull in yet more software.
There are of course plenty of other alternatives & many would likely work very well with minimal extra config time like Mint & Mageia; however, FSF approved distro just seem like a total non starter for me. Their creators have very good intentions, yet they hit a wall when it comes to practical daily driver solutions. FSF distros are like some crazy hippie commune that seem better for the world overall, but those hippies really need to figure out how to get some form of solar power & modern medicines into that place before they will be able to convince many people to try it their way. In the same way every time I read about an FSF type distro I come away with the impression that it's not there yet as a daily driver & may never really be.
35 • FSF (by Bonky Ozmond on 2017-09-20 01:38:00 GMT from Nicaragua)
@34
I have been with Linux For many years and have used almost all of the different distros at some time or another some for the duration of running the live CD up some for many years....
I was a Mandrake user ( the origin of PClinuxOS and Mageia)
I Tried my FSF distro as i sort of agreed with a lot of the ethos behind it...but for me it wasn't going to be a usable option if i needed to use a computer....and without the computer i wouldnt have had any work etc...
I have Gentoo / slackware and or derivatives on most of my burgeoning heap of computers which have served me well and given me pretty much trouble free usage
I could now probably use a FSF Distro with a lot less issues than before as need and whats on offer are a lot closer now
36 • Post # 14 (by Winchester on 2017-09-20 11:41:45 GMT from United States)
This character is obviously just trying to get a reaction.
Either that or has some very odd hardware that can't boot Linux distributions.
He / she has all of these problems that nobody else has.
Constantly railing against PClinuxOS without giving any real legitimate reason. (Not being able to figure out how to change the command terminal color scheme theme is not a legitimate issue for anyone who is half-way computer literate.) How does one even encounter this problem if the distribution will not boot??
Why is PClinuxOS so popular if it can't boot??
If it really can't boot on given hardware,maybe use a different distribution or different hardware. You don't have to use security porous operating systems such as Windows XP or even Windows 7.
37 • Legitimacy (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-09-20 13:06:39 GMT from United States)
@36 • @14 • @26 • When vintage hardware is "deprecated" and dropped from say, kernel support, without advance warning … a confessed Luddite (2010) may become a bit bitter, and lack appreciation for a loss of polish in a distro, especially after an initially pleasant (2007?) experience brings false hope.
…
Loyal opposition? A persistent grating whine may indicate a need\\\\market-opportunity for some polish/grease/discipline, however irksome to a dev. Serves a legitimate, if unpopular, purpose - gadfly. Contrarian.
How many would begin to believe their own marketing hype without one? Or at least believe their audience does?
…
(Vintage rules - for vintage hardware, vintage distro ISO?)
…
For some, the best way to try out a distro is via Qemu …
38 • hardware (by Tim Dowd on 2017-09-20 16:01:29 GMT from United States)
Someone above said something about "maybe you had very different hardware" and I'm starting to think that might be at the root of a lot of the angst and fighting that goes on in the "which distro is the best" genera.
I have an older desktop that is completely happy with Mint 18.1 (Ubuntu Xenial based.) I have a laptop that will crash if anything related to Xenial is put on it. I have a newer desktop that doesn't work well with any kernel before the one currently in Ubuntu 17.10, and a second laptop that's happily running Ubuntu 17.04.
I have no explanation for the differences. I suppose I could look into what hardware is different, and look at the release notes for every distro or software component. I've learned it's much quicker to keep my /home folder on a separate partition and just keep trying APT based distros until I get one that works the way I want to.
But anyway, if someone genuinely hates the OS you love, consider that it might really be a hardware difference. And vice versa, if someone loves what you hate, it might be the same reason.
39 • hardware and Win vs *nix (by TheTKS on 2017-09-20 21:59:21 GMT from United States)
@38 http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20170918#comment-38
Yes, your mileage may vary. My experience is similar, having dual or triple boot installed (and tried live DVD) several Linuxes and BSDs on several desktops and laptops, just since January this year. Oh, yeah - OpenIndiana and Haiku, too.
Today I'm happy running Slackware, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, elementary and Mint on three machines and rarely use Windows at home anymore (work: only Win 10 possible, and I've no problem with using it there.) Would still like to successfully install a BSD with GUI.
Then settle on 1 or 2 (ok, maybe 3) OSs/distros.
Does someone want to tell us here why Windows is better? Fine, but I went to Linux after too many hours fixing Windows problems and (the last straw) the Oct '16 Win 10 update that messed up a family member's computer.
I would say to other newbies to try as many as you have time for, and on more than one machine if you can. What you like best is the best OS and distro for you.
40 • Hardware support (by RJA on 2017-09-20 22:07:06 GMT from United States)
@38 XX's nouveau and possibly XX's X.Org, hates my GeForce GTX 1060!
IIRC, noveau don't even recognize it and X.Org refuses to give me a desktop, despite an updated XX ISO!
So if you were told that additional support was added and expect the GTX 1060 to be usable, you will be wrong! Unfortunately, it feels more like Windows 2000 SP4 in a bad way, where you're stuck up the creek without a paddle!
41 • Quo vadis, Mageia? (by Andy Mender on 2017-09-21 12:51:30 GMT from Austria)
It's nice that we have so many different open-source projects, though not sure how Mageia fits in anywhere. Of the rpm-based distributions there is already Fedora and openSUSE, which cover most if not all expectations one might have. Both are fairly user-friendly and welcoming, and offer more applications than Mageia.
Again, it would be nice to see more distributions that disfavor "bloat". We've got the user-friendliness covered quite well. To the brim even. Maybe it's time for a step back?
42 • Hardware support and the Linux kernel (by cykodrone on 2017-09-21 15:29:04 GMT from Canada)
The newer the kernel, the more hardware it supports (or should). Not all hardware chip firmwares or drivers are in the standard Linux kernel, that's where separate firmware packages (in the distro's repo) come in. If a distro and its installer is worth its salt, it should detect what you have (properly) and install those extra firmware and driver packages for you. Some distros won't automatically install firmware blobs because they have proprietary licenses (free to use but not change the code and then redistribute). Beginner friendly distros are more likely to automatically install proprietary firmware blobs for you, and more likely to offer fine tuned video driver packages for installation once you're up and running.
In my experience over the years, it's been exotic hardware component makers (never heard of or lesser known names) used by the big proprietary PC and laptop builders (corporations) that are the problem. Sure, the name on the front of the device is big and well known, but they shopped for the cheapest components they could find and made deals with that monopoly OS company to make sure generic drivers for those cheap and lesser known components were supplied. That and the latest bleeding edge hardware could be a problem too, this is why I build my own PCs and research if components are supported by Linux or not before I buy. Search engine suggestion, 'Linux compatible (plus) *motherboard model*/*video card chip*/*wifi card*/*laptop model*', etc.
43 • Text file configs (by nkuitse on 2017-09-21 18:54:14 GMT from United States)
While I understand the value of GUI interfaces for system settings, it's incredibly frustrating to jump (click) through a gazillion hoops, trying every which way to accomplish something, when the solution is (or should be!) a one-line config file change clearly documented in a man page.
Of course the converse is true as well -- the key to a good text config file is clear documentation, and obviously that's not always what we get.
44 • Mageia etc. (by M.Z. on 2017-09-21 20:32:17 GMT from United States)
@41
"there is already Fedora and openSUSE, ... Both are fairly user-friendly and welcoming..."
Perhaps I'm biased because I've used Mageia & PCLinuxOS more than Fedora & openSUSE; however, I personally find Mageia far superior in terms of everyday usability & ease of setup compared to either Fedora or openSUSE. On the openSUSE front, there may be equally powerful setup & config tools in SUSE, but the control center in Mageia is far more usable & useful without feeling quite as obtuse & obscure as what I remember of YAST.
As for the Fedora comparison, well Fedora is a nice secure, cutting edge distro; however, the installer seemed like a bit of a nightmare, especially custom partitioning, up till the most recent releases. In addition there is the necessity of bringing in outside repos to get full media support, while Mageia builds everything you could need for that into the optional repos that are very easy to configure from the greeter. As another point of comparison, I would say that I had massive problems with something as basic as package management via the GUI in the previous releases of Fedora XFCE. It would have been one thing if themes on Yumex were the only thing broken in Fedora 24-25 XFCE, but I also got errors every single time I tried to use Yumex just to do basic updates. Ironically enough, the Fedora team seems to agree with my assessment because they decided switch to Mageia's new DNFDragora package manager on Fedora 26 Cinnamon.
Anyway, as nice as somethings about Fedora are I think Mageia is a far better desktop distro. Its also worth noting that given its history as a child of Mandriva who took most of the former dsitros devs, the Mageia team has been working at making a nice polished distro that is desktop ready for a very long time. And of course if you want to complain about too many distros there is a lot more going on in the debian family of distros. It seems like there are always 1001 Deb distros poping up & disappearing, while Mageia has been around for 6+ years & was built by a team that had over a decade of experience under Mandriva before creating Mageia.
-----------------------
@35 So you think the FSF hippie distro commune has all the basic utilities worked out (aka hardware support & other basics), they just don't have modern steaming media services?
45 • The point of Mageia. (by Antony on 2017-09-23 13:49:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Still scratching my head about Andy's comments @41.
Over the course of 20+ years, I don't think there are that many distro's that I've not tried. The advent of Mandrake was my biggest joy in Linux. Mandrake was the original 'user-friendly' distro. For me, Mageia is the best way of connecting to that.
Do you think Mageia is less relevant than ROSA, OpenMandriva or even PCLinuxOS? You say that there is no need for Mageia because fedora are openSUSE "fairly user-friendly". Well, if I were not using Mageia, then I would use openSUSE. However, I have used both openSUSE and fedora for long periods, but hey are not as user-friendly or 'smooth' as as Mageia 6. I would not class the fedora installer as being very friendly at all, and I much prefer openSUSE's (the most comprehensive installer there is). You also refer to bloat, but a default openSUSE is a bit of a 'kitchen-sink' distro.
I normally have 2, maybe 3 distro's side by side but with Mageia 6, I have not felt the need to do that. It gives me all I need, and it is a very smooth experience. I have dusted off my 32bit laptop as well, and Mageia runs very nicely on that too. In just over 2 months of using only Mageia 6, I have had not once had to 'roll my sleeves up', and I have had zero issues. Plug-and-play, as they say. Oh, and the community is the icing on the cake for me.
As M.Z. said, if you are concerned about excess/pointless distro spawn, then I think you are focussing on the wrong camp. You said Mageia is pointless, but you didn't say "I don't see the point in distro's like Mageia, OpenMandriva, ROSA, or perhaps even PCLinuxOS - because we have a 'fairly' user-friendly openSUSE and fedora". How come?
Back to the good old days? For me, that is the point of Mageia.
46 • Star Linux (by rooster12 on 2017-09-24 10:57:03 GMT from United States)
Star Linux has been something I tried out some time back, still running Star ob and i3 on my desktop. What I'm impressed with is the resources being extremely low. Desktop running 140mb of memory at login is something to marvel at.
Very streamlined distro, yet has everything you need to customize and simply be quite efficient OTB.
Devuan certainly has attracted a multitude of users over the last couple of years, would guess it will end up with the lion share of Debian users. Much like Manjaro has done with Ubuntu.
The Star developer has many Window manager distros to pick from, and xfce as well. Well worth anyones interest with trying out one of the very best Devuan derivatives. One of the very few distros that everything works...and inviting!
Star seems to receive constant attention with frequent updates and upgrades, changes. A developer who cares about his distributions. Kudos! Thank you Ozi!
47 • 140mb of memory at login (by tim on 2017-09-24 20:23:45 GMT from United States)
That "140mb of memory" is most likely a byproduct of cumulative autostarted services (and/or session-autostarted applications: clipboard manager, etc). Throughout my distrohopping (including Star, a few months back), I'm still finding/expecting only 78--92Mb overhead at the start of a i3, fluxbox, icewm, jwm, or openbox session.
48 • Star Linux (by dick on 2017-09-24 21:40:21 GMT from Canada)
Just installed Star 586 with JWM,
93 Megs used at start-up,
all the programs I use have been added OK.
Only 1 problem encountered...
the Splix printer-driver in repos is broken.
49 • Debian Vs. Devuan (by M.Z. on 2017-09-24 22:15:49 GMT from United States)
@46
“Devuan certainly has attracted a multitude of users over the last couple of years, would guess it will end up with the lion share of Debian users.”
The idea that Debian will lose a majority of anti-systemd users to Devuan seems like a bit of a given; however, the idea that a majority of all Debian users would care seems highly dubious. It certainly seems clear that there are a number of very vocal people that care a lot about their init, but what reason is there to believe that there was a large enough majority of Debian users interested in there init that it would count as a 'lions share'? Just because the anti-systemd crowed is vocal doesn't mean its base includes anywhere near a majority of Debian users.
That being said, the right to fork because of something you didn't like is a huge part of why the GPL exists. I wish Devuan luck, though I'm not really interested in it or a derivative unless they can make a compelling case that they have a good alternative to Mint on the desktop. I do find both PCLinuxOS & Mageia to be good desktop distros & I'm open to the idea of another good desktop distro, but it'll take more than a rant on init to get me to try a distro.
As for a 'lion's share' of Debian users, well taking those will probably entail creating a truly great & flexible/universal OS with a big community & lots of good stable open source software. That's a lot easier to say than to actually do & a compelling case will have to be made.
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