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1 • Flatpak and snap (by DaveW on 2017-08-28 01:15:53 GMT from United States) |
I currently am not using either. However, the poll did arouse my curiosity. I could be interested in installing Libreoffice in one or the other format, so I went looking.
The Libreoffice flatpak page says: "The LibreOffice.flatpak does not include a Java Runtime Environment (JRE)."
The snap Libreoffice page says: "Downloading the snap will not give you automatic updates"
This means I won't be installing Libreoffice in either format. I don't currently know of any other application that I might be interested in.
2 • btrfs stability and also flatpak (by Billy Larlad on 2017-08-28 01:46:50 GMT from United States)
I used btrfs from mid-2010 to early-2011 on OpenSUSE 11.3. I had no problems. I'm not saying it's necessarily ready for enterprise users, but do home users really have problems with it in 2017?
P.S. flatpak is okay but I feel like its developers need to do a better job making it user-friendly. I think the command line UI is a bit clunky, there is still no simple centralized list of flatpaks, and it's lamentably easy to install some flatpak that barely works unless you run it with cryptic flags (e.g., I installed mgba but couldn't get my USB controller to work with it; after removing it, I learned that I should have specifically told flatpak to allow this flatpak to access USB devices). That said, I feel like flatpak is a technology with some promise.
3 • Cucumber vs. Slackware (by linuxista on 2017-08-28 02:19:51 GMT from United States)
Even if Cucumber were more stable and mature, it's not clear at all what the rationale would be for installing it instead of Slackware. Basically, what is the raison d'etre?
4 • Why fiddle with "Cucumber"? (by OS2_user on 2017-08-28 03:19:58 GMT from United States)
"mistyping a username would effectively bring down the system"
Literally a non-starter.
Today I twice crashed the desktop in PCLinux 2017.04 just by what I thought ordinary clicking around. -- But there's so many options in KDE that one is bound to make a mistake. And still haven't figured out what the green + and red - on upper left corner of "folder" icons mean except that I can't click there. I'm getting fed up with too many exotic options and not enough basics.
Also today, doing FTP from PCLinux to copy files from an NTFS drive, Windows has weird filenames that the receiver system wouldn't accept -- so a dialog box popped up sprawling across entire 1920 pixels with the buttons well off-screen. Simply needs wrapped if too long, but since problems like that never pop up in clean test environments, it's just one of the insufficiently thought-through parts that'll never be fixed, yet I seem to find often. -- But just try to complain! I've found that they don't want to know.
By the way, on that line: a negative review of PCLinux that I put into Distrowatch three times never appeared. Manifestly, only positives are let through. I now know one cannot trust those reviews or "ratings" numbers, so why bother having them?
5 • @OS_2 User #4 (Your PCLinux Review) (by JD on 2017-08-28 04:50:36 GMT from United States)
Developing a Linux distribution like PCLinux is huge task. So at the end of the day please try to have respect for others. Its super easy to come across issues and make complaints but at the end of the day please try to be more forgiving and respectful to developers. They spend a lot of time on stuff.
BTW I hope your rating wasn't a 1 star because I would not post that either.
6 • Ah, Cucumber Linux... A simple question... Why? (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-28 05:03:17 GMT from France)
When I read your article about Cucumber Linux, it reminds me a term I coined for my french speaking youtube channel : frankly useless GNU/Linux distribution. It is a rough translation, though.
Do I need to explain this concept? Really? :)
Just a distribution which is not really useful or needed to help GNU/Linux world to be seen in a better way. Do you know what I mean? :D
7 • Black Lab Linux XFCE edition ... (by Hornero on 2017-08-28 05:13:02 GMT from Canada)
As announced; the latest release of Black Lab's Enterprise edition comes with Linux kernel 4.10.0-37.
Now, does anybody out there knows if the current edition of Black Lab's XFCE flavour is, also, using the same Linux kernel ??
8 • @JD #5 (by MCBuhl on 2017-08-28 05:24:35 GMT from Germany)
Looks like a hen-egg-problem: who is in need of whom?
The same is true on the other side. Be thankful for comments, especially if they are constructive: I'm not happy with not usable windows either.
9 • We need LESS distros and more bugfixes. (by Jason on 2017-08-28 06:06:00 GMT from South Africa)
Why still adding new distro after new distro with "My super uber awesome custom distro" when there are STILL major faults with the main, even top-tier distributions.
Basics like drivers, multimedia, usb performance, DE stability are all chock-full of bugs and yet new distros are coming out almost weekly/monthly? I've spent the last 6 months actively trying most distros in an attempt to replace Windows - and you know what, not a single distro was usable. None went a week without major errors that involved putting my life on hold till it was fixed.
Linux is the ONLY viable candidate this planet has of a free operating system that everybody can use to compute, create, share, and collaborate - but if we keep ignoring the base issues and polluting the scene with useless ditro after useless distro we will never get anywhere.
10 • Snap/Flatpak (by zykoda on 2017-08-28 06:51:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Used snap to install Anbox on Mint 18.2. ( Anbox hangs with Android icon and Starting... and finally gives up. ) Not needed Flatpak yet!
11 • Flatpak or Snap (by pola on 2017-08-28 06:53:22 GMT from Czech Republic)
I chose to check "neither" in your opinion poll, because I use AppImage. Avidemux-2.7.0 works just fine for me. (Better than in Ubuntu 16.04!) Snap package created some strange partitions - or how should I name it - which I saw in Disks program. So I deleted all that stuff.
12 • Windows 10 (by I hoped Linux --------- on 2017-08-28 06:57:53 GMT from Australia)
Being just an ordinary PC user I thought of giving Linux a whirl as anything must be better than Win 10 spyware. Right ?
Too many linux distros too many bugs and too many smart Linux people who want Linux desktop to stay what it is, a fragmented mess to argue over.
13 • BTRFS (by grash54 on 2017-08-28 07:25:52 GMT from United States)
I wonder if this video has anything to do with the btrfs Redhat and Suse stuff. Seems like they're taking a dig at Redhat to me but you decide.
14 • BTRFS (by grash54 on 2017-08-28 07:27:24 GMT from United States)
Sorry, forgot the link - https://itsfoss.com/suse-red-hat-banter/
15 • New distro (by César on 2017-08-28 10:22:50 GMT from Chile)
Why useless distro?
I think is a good idea and a lot o work make a distro, and with time some of them grow and grow, looks at the example of distros that were born from others like Debian, BSD or Slackware. Obvious, provided they have a community and support that.
And the problems always arise in every distro, for example in Debian 9 my HP all in one NEVER WORKS and the repos have fewer packages than version 8, bad, bad, bad, this is the reason because i installed Slackware 14.2 in my PC, everything works. And in the laptop i install Sabayon, they recognize the infamous Broadcom BCM4311 at first boot.
At last, PCLinuxOS is the other distro works fine in my PC, never fails or hangs.
16 • New Distros (by Pat Huff on 2017-08-28 10:25:52 GMT from United States)
I think I might be the world's largest consumer of new Linux distros. I love seeing new ones and trying them as well as new versions of the others and I keep a large collection of them. So keep up the good work and keep pumping them out. Let the developers know that they have a faithful, enthusiastic consumer out there and it helps keep my old brain in shape.
17 • Why Cucumber? @3,4,6 (by curious on 2017-08-28 11:11:52 GMT from Germany)
The review was excessively kind to Cucumber.
One can guess that it is intended to be like Slackware, but independent, i.e. with much smaller user base and repositories. That usually means worse hardware support, less bug-reports and very limited software availability - yay!
If one takes into account the current state of the distro, what it achieves is more like providing supernerds with the fantastic combination of the beginner-unfriendlyness of Slackware with the proverbial reliability of Windows ME or Vista.
The quote from their website, "usable as an every day, general purpose operating system" is obviously a joke.
18 • BTRFS (by Sanjay Prasad on 2017-08-28 11:14:57 GMT from India)
Btrfs is a excellent file system based on the copy-on-write (COW) principle, One of the reason I use opensuse is btrrfs's snapshot feature ....
19 • Why Cucumber (by Roger Brown on 2017-08-28 12:51:22 GMT from Australia)
@17 - I disagree. I can see that with some further work, this distro could easily be a simple no fuss everyday operating system. Even as it stands, you get a useful collection of software pretty much ready to use.
The review is incorrect about networking not being available for VirtualBox - it is. It's merely that the old generic device names (such as eth0 ) are not recognised - predictable device names are. And since the full kernel source is included, the guest additions can indeed be installed.
So I have this app running in VirtualBox with full networking and at 1920x1080 resolution with rather less trouble than quite a few better known distros I could mention.
I hope to see this distro develop further.
20 • cfdisk (by OhioJoe on 2017-08-28 13:15:02 GMT from United States)
Quote " I found the cfdisk partitioning tool, which I feel has a nicer interface than the other two utilities, is also available. " I almost never can get cfdisk to work. Even following a tutorial and copy and pasting the commands gives me errors.
(I don't have a list of the errors-oops) (Maybe a link to a better cfdisk tutorial-I used one from Arch) If it is better than fdisk or parted, then I suggest that Cucumber and other distros (Even popular ones like Void) use a different type of installer.
21 • Cucumber and networking (by Jesse on 2017-08-28 13:45:20 GMT from Canada)
>> "The review is incorrect about networking not being available for VirtualBox - it is. It's merely that the old generic device names (such as eth0 ) are not recognised"
This is not correct. When running in VirtualBox the only network interface available to Cucumber is the loopback "lo" device. No other devices, with old or new names, are recognized.
22 • Snap/Flatpak/AppImage (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 13:53:18 GMT from United States)
Is there really a NEED for THREE "universal" package installers?! Linux has gotten like TV and Hollywood, if an idea works once, let's beat it to death by repeating it over and over again. Just because it CAN be done, does not mean it HAS to be done. Unless someone is concurrently using distros based on Debian, Red Hat, Slackware and Gentoo, the native package manager should be sufficient. The way I see it, in order to be "universal", Snap/Flatpak/AppImage offer lowest common denominator version apps that are not optimized for any distro. They work adequately across all distros but not great for any particular distro.
If, as Jesse says, the three are not competing, then two of them are redundant.
23 • Cucumber and networking (by Roger Brown on 2017-08-28 14:28:35 GMT from Australia)
>When running in VirtualBox the only network interface available to Cucumber is the loopback "lo" device. No other devices, with old or new names, are recognized.
Check /sys/class/net and you may find otherwise. I did, anyway.
(Posted from a VirtualBox VM running Cucumber)
24 • Flatpak and Snap (by Jordan on 2017-08-28 14:29:00 GMT from United States)
More to learn every time I check in here. ;)
25 • Appimage (by OstroL on 2017-08-28 15:41:02 GMT from Poland)
I use Appimage sometimes. I like the way the squashed file is being created, and that it opens in practically every distro. (Why "practically?" I haven't used every distro in the Linux land.) I like creating them. And, I can give it any extension, for example it can be Chrome.Appimage, Chrome.distrowatch, or even Chrome.ostrol...
You don't need any extra app installed for an Appimage to start. I suppose, Flatpaks and Snaps need such.
@ 22 dragonmouth
>>Is there really a NEED for THREE "universal" package installers?!<<
While Appimage can be named as an universal packager, it is NOT a package manager. An Appimage is a squashed file that opens in given distro just like a live iso.
26 • Cucumber (by Slacker on 2017-08-28 15:52:08 GMT from United States)
Echoing some other commenters:
I noticed and was intrigued by the description immediately, since it draws inspiration from Slackware, but upon reviewing the website I failed to find an answer as to why this distro was developed when Slackware exists. What's the new thing that Slackware isn't doing?
Devuan exists because Debian went to systemd. Mint exists because Ubuntu doesn't install codecs by default and Unity.
Why does Cucumber exist? What is Slackware not doing?(within the framework of what Slackware does well for the target demographic)
27 • @26: Slacker (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 16:44:59 GMT from United States)
Cucumber probably is trying to be to Slackware what Ubuntu is to Debian or Antergos/Manjaro are to Arch - a newbie-friendly respin on a distro that is not exactly newbie-friendly. Unfortunately, Cucumber just ain't makin' it for now.
28 • @5: JD (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 16:56:46 GMT from United States)
IOW, users should only post adoring comments to stroke the egos of the developers?
"respectful to developers"
Respect should gained, not demanded. I'll be respectful to the developers when they are respectful of the users. I am respectful of the developers that engage in a honest discussion about their products. The developers whose attitude is 'This is what I developed, like it or lump it!' deserve all the abuse that's heaped on them.
29 • why X distro ? (by ploppy on 2017-08-28 17:13:29 GMT from Portugal)
Because GPL. Who needs any more reasons?
They CAN so they DO.
How many linux actually add value? Not many.
30 • @9: Jason (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 17:16:56 GMT from United States)
'Freedom of choice' is not only Linux's biggest asset but also its biggest negative. On the positive side, if you don't like a distro or a program, there are always others you can use. On the negative side, this freedom has led to what you call "My super uber awesome distro" phenomenon with a proliferation of distros that are only minimally different from each other. DW database contains 870 distros, of which 570 are either dormant or discontinued. How many of them were 'one version wonders'? I wonder how many of the 299 active distros are very similar to each other?
31 • Why ______? (by MikeOh Shark on 2017-08-28 17:26:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
It would be nice if every distro had a why ___? page that explained why their distro needed to be created instead of just fixing/contributing to someone else's.
Things like Puppy allows you to boot from CD AND save your changes to the writable CD.
Other distros come with utilities that allow you to save/backup your custom setup to a bootable ISO.
Some are intended to be easier to install than the parent distro, include multimedia codecs, or other changes.
If the distro doesn't include a why page, perhaps DW can add one for it's pages and get the developers to comment before adding new distros.
32 • @12: I hoped Linux... (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 17:31:27 GMT from United States)
"Too many linux distros"
While I agree that there are too many distros, you should be used to it. When you go to the store do you rail against the multitude of pasta, bread, beer, etc brands? How many clothing and shoe brands are there? How many car brands and models? And every day new ones are introduced and old ones are discontinued. Are you as confused shopping as you are choosing a Linux distro?
33 • @31: MikeOh Shark (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-28 17:55:53 GMT from United States)
"Things like Puppy allows you to boot from CD AND save your changes to the writable CD."
Then why create more distros that do the same thing?
"Other distros come with utilities that allow you to save/backup your custom setup to a bootable ISO."
You can install MyLiveCD/DVD or Remastersys or a similar utility from your distro's repositories. A special distro is not required.
"get the developers to comment before adding new distros."
Oh, I'm sure the developers can write volumes on 'WHY' they felt the need to develop a distro. But, in the end, for many developers, it comes down to what ploppy post #29 says "Because the CAN".
34 • The Perfect Operative System (by Lluis Puig(Catalonia not Spain on 2017-08-28 18:09:41 GMT from Spain)
IMHO there is no only ONE perfect os linux / bsd to replace w10.
I discover that the PERFECT SYSTEM is to combinate several OS in the same coomputer with multiboot.
On my new laptop I have w10, openbsd, arch, debian, fedora, slackware and mint.
For secure boot and last pkgs: Fedora.
For safe banking and test bsd (without chrome): OpenBSD.
For the bleeding edge packages: Arch
For stability and downloading torrents: debian / slack
For my wife and daughters: Linux Mint /Win10
And I do not distrohopping. I'm stick with these very good distros. (Jesse Smith in my prefered distrohopper)
PS.: Arch Linux is the closest OS to perfection (except for annual crash)
35 • Edible distros... (by OstroL on 2017-08-28 18:28:07 GMT from Poland)
There's mint, if you have a bad breath, peppermint to make the breath even nicer; we had a pear that went sour, there was a peach and olive sometime ago...now we have cucumber for the salad...sure there is 'nasty' bitten apple, from a sort-of-bsd family. Most probably, we need carrots and beetroot too...maybe, even leeks...
36 • KDE features & 'too many' Distro options (by M.Z. on 2017-08-28 18:52:36 GMT from United States)
"...And still haven't figured out what the green + and red - on upper left corner of "folder" icons mean except that I can't click there..."
That's a better way to add to or remove from a group of selected items. Ask yourself, 'how quick & visually intuitive is it to hit Ctrl & Click to add or remove an item to a selected group?' Now try using the KDE feature & ask yourself 'Why didn't every GUI desktop do that from the beginning?' Once you figure it out it actually makes far more sense than any other desktop & frankly I'm surprised others haven't adopted it. I had a similar issue wondering what the round 'sticky' button in KDE was supposed to do for a while, but then I started to use it once I figured out the whole 'pin across all desktops' thing.
"We need LESS distros and more bugfixes."
I agree with #29, but that deserves to be expanded on a bit:
"I wonder why there are hundreds of distros & they can't all combine into something that can compete for more of the desktop market"
That often asked question goes directly to the nature of open source software. Under the GPL license that Linux is released under, all the code belongs to anyone who uses the software & they can get a copy of the human readable & editable source code upon request from whoever created their copy of Linux. That means anyone who can edit code can make their own copy of Linux & create a new distro on a whim, because under the GPL it is their software as much as anyone else's. Now just imagine the endless possibilities. Now try & imagine every hobby coder & corporate Linux vendor in the world trying to agree on how to do anything. Never going to happen, because it belongs to them all equally & no one can tell them what to do with their code.
What you end up with is a handful of top tier company projects like Red Hat & SUSE, along with some major community projects like Debian, Mint, & Mageia. Then there are a couple of hundred other well know flavors, along with literally thousands of little known hobby projects. Because everyone has a different vision & the right to do whatever they want with the code there will never be any total centralization, nor will there be any way to force users/developers to accept anything they don't like. I think it's a trade off that is well worth making, though I would still like to see a more polished Linux on the desktop.
37 • Linux vs Windows 'universal' packaging in krita, blender, godotengine case. (by usman on 2017-08-28 19:44:21 GMT from Indonesia)
I use neither, not because against snap or flatpak, but because the new software i downloaded seem to use different packages format.
- krita using appimage
- blender, i don't know but as simple as extract and click to run program
- sweethome3D also extract and click
- godotengine, i don't know what they use, just download and click
well, it seem many software already using portable packaging. If these software integrated in update manager, that will be awesome.
Now this is joke but serious :
As we know, if you download krita, blender portable, or godotengine for Windows, all will have .exe extension.
If you download krita, blender portable, or godotengine for Linux, the files don't have/need 'universal' extension.
Now if developers rename all Linux executable files above with (for example) .tux extension (krita.tux, blender.tux inside blender.zip, godotenginev2.tux, etc). That will already look like Linux have universal packaging.
38 • Why indeed? (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-08-28 20:16:11 GMT from United States)
Re-inventors come in all sorts, from "top-tier vendor" to backroom hobbyist.
There are always reasons why, from someone else's refusal to fix an annoying bug or add a desired feature ... to wanting to control a market.
Didn't Linux itself come about (in large part) because some people wanted an alternative?
If you don't like it, at least you're free to make your own - unless you'd rather leech?
39 • Black Lab Linux XFCE (by Fairly Reticent on 2017-08-28 20:57:08 GMT from United States)
@7 • Looks like kernel 4.8.0-53-generic(x86_64) to me. Has Pinguy Builder.
40 • red linux OS (by Seosilly on 2017-08-28 22:37:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
There is NO place for this on distrowatch https://redlinuxos.wordpress.com/, the last thing Linux needs is political partisans of any type using it to garner votes or actions. It is listed under new releases.
41 • Don't be So_Silly (by Kragle on 2017-08-28 23:25:46 GMT from United States)
@40 • There may be no Freedom of Speech in your police-state (Birmingham, UK?), but elsewhere anyone can propose their own distro with whatever features, including political, religious, regional or culturally-biased material.
The lone developer of Trisquel might appreciate the competition assistance.
(But will there be a trademark lawsuit from Red Star OS? Stay tuned...)
42 • Re-Dont be so silly (by Seosilly on 2017-08-29 00:13:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
LOL, Birmingham, what are you on? Think you are the internet police or something, FAIL!
Thus far, after using Linux for over 10 years, I have never come across, downloaded or tried any linux that has been politically biased to the point of including specific politically biased material or links.
There are millions of places for political bias, IMO, any OS should not be one of them. If people wish to sound the death nell for Linux, carry on the way it is heading. Also, if people have not got the brain power to source political material without the aid of an OS to help them, they should not really be given a vote.
All Linux should be OS´s, which stands for ¨operating system¨, not used as PPP ¨political promotion platforms¨.
43 • Did someone hit a nerve? @40, 42 (by curious on 2017-08-29 09:22:59 GMT from Germany)
Your agitation/horror is rather amusing.
I take it you haven't seen BLAG or Emmabuntüs yet?
Actually, all distros that insist on being completely "libre" tend to have a political agenda (gasp!). Perhaps it would be enlightening for you to research the FSF / Stallman - and what the GNU in GNU/Linux is about?
44 • Why not one widely accepted distro (by Igor on 2017-08-29 14:15:48 GMT from Croatia)
There is no such thing as potential freedom. Freedom comes to be only by being consumed. Yes, there are so much distros because people can make them. And by the way, freedom IS first class political agenda, always has been, there is distinct political alignment named liberalism.
Now, having bigger market share, what is it good for? Sounds like supporting your local basketball team against Lakers, and has nothing to do with the nature od FOSS. Sure it would be fine to have every piece of hardware working with every distro without having to reverse engineer drivers, but how is hardware industry supposed to pay their employees? Looking for a serious market share always ends up with some sort of Android.
Point about cooperation being better than competition is sound, but many people indeed do choose this approach, again because they can. Debian contributing community counts thousands of people. And Linux distros based on similar approach ARE fine polished OSs. When I showed my wife the KDE trick with little pluses and minuses in the edges of the file icons she just asked why she doesn't have it on her Windows. I am using openSUSE exactly because it is fine and polished OS, more so than Windows, less so than MacOS, but respecting its user, instead of humiliating her.
Bottom line, OS is not why anyone uses computers, it is software. After trying out Inkscape (stil below v.1.0) I found I can do most of the things I usualy do with Adobe Illustrator, only not that easily. But Inkscape, nominally still in beta, doesn't blackmail me the way Adobe does. If there is less easy to do things, there is no humiliation, but freedom. Definitely worth it.
45 • freedom of ownership vs licensing (by lupus on 2017-08-29 18:12:54 GMT from Germany)
We have to be thankful, even if we (I) mostly don't agree with him, that Richard Stallman took a stand and for all of us invented the GPL Idea. I don't go into the specifics you can all google his ass for yourselves. The Industry invented licensing Software opposed to plainly selling for a good reason. Money. Now we all have to really be thankful for each and every Jim, George and Herriett who put their thoughts their labour and their enthusiasm behind this great GPL Idea even if they merely add some Pictures to an already existing Distro and then call it thier own intellectual property under the GPL.
Because of natural reasons the BottomUP approach has difficulties when competing with strict hierachichal TopDown Industrylevel competition. But in my view they are doing great even though there is no automatic giving back upstream procedure implemented.
For instance I am loving the hell out of Antergos Gnome edition right now, which runs great on a tablet touchy type computer. Nearly everything worked right out of the box and it was free of pay and freedom respecting as well. Don't try to split hairs with me on that I know it's not 100%. I will honour their effort with 10€ when the next paycheck arrives 2 Weeks from now. I hope you all respect your freedom in a similar way!
46 • @27 (by Jyrki on 2017-08-29 18:13:35 GMT from Czech Republic)
but we do have Salix, Zenwalk. Can Cucumber make it better? It's another distro without systemd hell but I appreciate projects that can merge and cooperate much more, eg Arch-openrc, Manjaro-openrc, Archbang
47 • Freedom Means You Can Create Whatever You Want & Distro Polish (by M.Z. on 2017-08-29 22:34:02 GMT from United States)
"...I have never come across, downloaded or tried any linux that has been politically biased..."
Well, welcome to the real world. The freedom in the GPL means you can create whatever type of Linux you want & dedicate it to whatever sort of cause you want to. There was an attempt to make an OccupyOS during a certain political movement here in the US & that BLAG thing #43 mentioned looks even more out to the political left. On the opposite side, I've seen some guy railing against systemd who was very openly a 'tea party' type. In a similar vein I also have a distinct memory of some 'distro reviewer' openly endorsing the worst (racist, corrupt, stupid etc.) presidential candidate I've ever seen in my life. Being that I'm just as free to think & do as I please I decided to never visit his website again. Of course there was also a great deal of controversy around something called 'Ubuntu Satanic Edition', which was apparently made by folks seeking to cause both political & religious controversy while misappropriating the title of their upstream distro.
Anyway, the point remains everyone is free to do with their copy of the Linux code as they please. Some who are way to the left will try to tie Linux with trying to end capitalism, & Red Hat will continue to generate a big profit from selling Linux support services, like any capitalist company would. As long as Red Hat & it's employees are trying to be ethical I'm personally glad they are there doing everything they do to enrich my OS of choice; however, that OS is used by some diametrically opposed groups.
All this can & likely will continue to happen, so either ignore it or get used to it because it is going to happen when you set your code free.
"And Linux distros based on similar approach ARE fine polished OSs."
If that's in reference to what I said above I agree, and would only add that all OSs are imperfect & that you could never create a Distro that was too polished for the desktop.
48 • Linux mealtime (by bkind2dragons on 2017-08-30 00:56:31 GMT from Australia)
@35 "Most probably, we need carrots and beetroot too...maybe, even leeks..."
The fruit & veg theme has moved on to dev boards that also run linux: for fruit there's the raspberry, banana, orange, and graperain boards, and for veg there's the potato board. If you like a bit of protein with your fruit & veg there's the beagle, dragon, and panda boards; or for the insectivorous - as in some countries - there's the firefly board. For after-dinner deserts there's the marsboard; and for some chewing action while strutting your stuff there's the bubblegum and gumstix boards.
So far Linux has conquered the kitchen, and (at the other end) the toilet - and is now trying to conquer cars. Maybe the Linux community is more intent on getting Linux to run on anything - at the expense of bugfixing and unification?
49 • There should be Only One (by Kragle on 2017-08-30 01:31:52 GMT from United States)
@48 et al "… at the expense of bugfixing and unification?" Wait - does upstream even Want this "unity"?
How often does upstream pay more-than-cursory attention to bug reports?
How many barriers are erected to making a report?
For those with the tools, it may be less trouble to make their own, solve their own issue(s), and simply share their version of a fix.
Or should there be only one … kind of human?
50 • misc (by tim on 2017-08-30 02:34:17 GMT from United States)
You wouldn't want to EAT fireflies. I accidentally discovered they are unpalatable (bitter).
FWIW, if you care to look, at sourceforge.net you can find at least 3 distros having a political and/or religious bent.
Each time "Snap and Flatpak" are mentioned and AppImage is NOT mentioned... I silently wonder "what's up with THAT?"
51 • @36 So now must dodge left corner of icons, ALL the time. (by OS2_user on 2017-08-30 05:31:06 GMT from United States)
From now until another whim strikes. -- That. Is. A. Nuisance. What you think brilliant is infuriating when move between systems.
>>> Ask yourself, 'how quick & visually intuitive is it to hit Ctrl & Click to add or remove an item to a selected group?'
Doesn't actually matter. After 20 years, I'm used to it. All GUIs are arbitrary. Quit changing them for more "cool", they're becoming unusable. If want to improve selection, treat the icons as a series in rows as, ahem, OS/2 does, or any text editor does, not by a rectangle area. Part of the problem is accumulation of bad ideas.
>>> Now try using the KDE feature & ask yourself 'Why didn't every GUI desktop do that from the beginning?'
Because makes all other uses more difficult and dangerous.
Also, it'd just be NICE if somewhere the purpose was written down. Am I supposed to read up before using a GUI? What happened to "intuitive", indeed?
52 • @51 GUI, intuitive? (by Igor on 2017-08-30 14:29:28 GMT from Croatia)
There is nothing intuitive about computer GUI, pure and plain convention. And KDE does implement IBM's old guidelines on human-machine graphical interface, more strictly than Windows for instance. Thus, Ctrl+Click works, but so do both Ctrl+W and Ctrl+Q which indeed is easier to remember than Alt+F4, though nothing like intuitive.
True, documentation is always of lowest priority, as there is chronic shortage of human resources in community driven software production. But compare this to mobile apps, most of these commercial. Documentation or Help is more of an exception than anything like rule in this world with as chronic shortage of time.
Anyway there is setting in KDE to have tooltip shown whenever mouse hovers anything clickable, so look for it and activate it, this will make your life with KDE much less bitter.
53 • Just Click It Like Before (by M.Z. on 2017-08-30 19:14:57 GMT from United States)
"...Because makes all other uses more difficult and dangerous."
How is that? Single click selects & so does the little + sign. What exactly changed about the behavior of the icon, aside of course from easier group selection? Have you tried ignoring it & acting as you would before you noticed the +/-? If so, did it actually act any different than you expected when you did so?
I just double checked & double click did exactly what I want regardless of how many things are selected. I see absolutely no 'danger' created by the addition of the feature; however, i will admit that it could induce some hesitation if you focus on it too much & let not quite knowing whats going on with it bother you. That being said, the trade off is more functionality regardless of you have KDE set to launch items with a single click or a double click. You can completely ignore the fact that you are right on the +/- & double click as normal with the results you'd expect if the feature wasn't that & not double clicking fast enough has the roughly the same effect I'd expect.
All that I can detect from the feature is add functionality & extremely little, if any, unexpected behavior. It seems genuinely more intuitive too me now & it seems to me to be a net gain for the vast majority of potential users. I see the utility in not needlessly reinventing the wheel, as for instance the completely unintuitive mess that is Gnome 3 did*, but features that have no negative impact on functionality & benefit users should be added. I'm sorry if the +/- caused some confusion for you, but give how little the feature affected clicking things aren't you basically arguing that we should never change anything so you can feel more comfortable? Can't you see how that would be a big net loss to users as a whole, many of whom could benefit from such features?
I realize that you may have been put out of your comfort zone; however, it is worth noting that this is KDE we are talking about & that particular desktop has tried to blend advanced new features into a traditional desktop for as long as I've been paying any attention to it. This is one of the reasons MATE & Trinity exist, because if you hate change so much you can get a well supported & functional 'old school' DE while the rest of us get new features that make computing better for us. I hope you play with KDE a bit more & think about it before deciding what to do, but you could always ditch it for a more stagnant DE. It's a free operating system & you can get it put together however you want.
*(Preemptive apology/side note - yes I know some do like Gnome 3, but it isn't what many of us normal PC users want & it certainly significantly changed & in ways that seemed to cause it to lose users. Sorry if you feel bad about it, but it's a perfect example of certain kinds of changes that lots of users don't like & it's nothing personal. I'm sure Gnome 3 is great for some people.)
54 • @53: Quit telling me I'M the problem! (by OS2_user on 2017-08-30 21:17:40 GMT from United States)
>>> "but give how little the feature affected clicking things aren't you basically arguing that we should never change anything so you can feel more comfortable?"
Yes, exactly! You probably expected me to deny I'm against change of what's arbitrary yet should be standard across all systems else confusion results, especially when there's no way to even find out what the heck it's supposed to do. -- Where exactly does one find a list of all the options in KDE? How am I to know it's safe? I don't at all care for experimenting with my files besides wasting time.
That "feature" makes the upper left fourth unavailable so I must use higher precision to avoid, increasing difficulty. As to danger: if I accidently click and leave grouped, one could be deleted, right? Any doing of what's not expected is "danger" in a GUI.
You've reminded me: the upper left folder on Desktop is somehow different. I couldn't get it to be normal without a green +, so I put a dummy there and ignore it. Why is that folder different? Is that good design?
And then there's KDE's wretched color scheme and thin borders! It's basically white on white. The progress bar for file copy is literally two gray pixels wide on white background. It flouts all good design simply because CAN, to be "different", as noted above, and evidently many are fed up with change for the sake of change.
In PCLinuxOS of 2007, it was possible to permanently DELETE files instantly simply by click to select then moving the mouse down, no check for mouse button in between. Simply shoddy, inexperienced design.
No, I clearly can't have a Linux do what I want. There's a comment above that says can't find one that's usable, and I agree. They removed my ability to boot to root without password. I can't run the Tor browser as root without going to the second script, so I just set that directory as Home. Is that having the system as I want? Phooey.
The present PCLinux and KDE is all I can stand for rare use -- I cannot stand constant use -- so I'm hoping to get a good clean non-updating Win 7 instead. It's become impossible to take out all the foolishness, even if I were expert programmer: it's metastatized like cancer, infinite dependencies. Example: systemd. Experts have now spent years just getting it OUT.
In 2007, I thought PCLinux was GREAT, wave of The Future. I could install while trying out the system! It found nearly all hardware, except for Dell; was a little peculiar, but almost no trouble.Then it was changed. -- That's the problem right there. It may work, but I can't dodge all the complexities.
Bottom line: STOP CHANGING because I can't use it. Yes, I'm STUPID, DULL, and a FOSSIL.
55 • @52 I'm using OS/2 and you're telling ME... (by OS2_user on 2017-08-30 21:24:24 GMT from United States)
that the current KDE is like IBM, eh?
No, it's LITTLE like it. OS/2 is in fact NT 2.4 (though Microsoft denies that it even exists), and essentially the same for GUI-ness. OS/2 has the close / maximize buttons swapped, but since in Windows the close button is big and red, I'm never confused.
Regardless how you view Windows, it's the standard.
But though KDE also works much the same, it's got TOO MUCH of other.It's too busy, too unreliable -- TWO crashes within an hour -- and the only promise in sight is yet MORE of what I don't want!
You're not going to convince me on this.
56 • Problems with too many distros and alleged bugs in Linux. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2017-08-31 04:17:22 GMT from United States)
First I was convinced by Mandriva to join that community and I had previously enjoyed
the Amiga from OS 1.3 to 3.9. and a short time that I used XP.
All operating systems have bugs. If you are "nailing jelly to a tree" which is an
apt description of coding, the sugar in the jelly is going to attract insects of
on sort or another.
I use presently PCLinuxOS64 2017.07 and if you haven't updated that may be
the cause of your problem with it. There is an old saw that GNU/Linux or Unix
is not user unfriendly but requires that the user respect it and learn about how
to properly use it.
I liked KDE when I first met it but then Plasma 4.x came out and wiped out
half the convenience. We used to be able to run them side by side and I
would get the work done in 3.9.5 then switch to the KDE Plasma 4.x.x to do
updates and see if functionality was finally restored. It took quite a while
maybe several years before I was able to unreservedly recommend KDE's
product which I like because of all the options that Windows users are
uncomfortable with. Then we were forced to upgrade(?) to KDE's Plasma
5 and we have an unruly beast again. I am going to stick with it though
as Trinity(a fork from KDE's 3.9.5) has gotten too complicated with multiple
task bar choices that make little to no sense for an outsider. I have to say
that the configuration menus and programs remind me of old times, like
12 years ago.
I am missing an important file apparently relating to the installation of
Linux kernel 4.12.9. and I will go to the PC-Linux forum to see if
anyone can come up with an answer.
But my task bar digital clock has become invisible. I can still get
the configuration menu by clicking on the absense of clock but there
is no way to alter the colors to perhaps make is visible.
I have had an interesting week using as i do an AMD A10 4 core in
my HP Pavilion notebook which is my production machine.
and an salvaged Intel i7 Dell laptop which is about 6-7 years old.
The Dell was mistreated but it ran pretty well for a year or so.
I install multiple systems on it lately having removed all of them
yesterday to start re-installing but it seems the hard disk cannot
be written to by the install procedure.
Then this HP got fouled up by the bad kernel so I re-installed
late last night and early this morning.
Windows users should try to learn more about how GNU/Linux works.
With PCLinuxOS you have to do frequent updates.
Remember I started with the C=64 in the late 80s and had souped up
my Amiga before I was unable to use that old machine and one of the
first things with the Amiga you had to learn was how to terminate
a SCSI chain. I hope the kids that have trouble with Linux distros
never have to learn about the equivalent though it might be the
(U)EFI setup these days. On an old MBR machine I have problems
with the BIOS-boot but if the Grim Reaper holds off long enough
I will probably learn how to do that in a breeze.
bliss - working now on her 81st year.
57 • @56 KDE - when will they reinvent the wheel again? (by curious on 2017-08-31 09:31:48 GMT from Germany)
My impression is that KDE 5 has been getting more and more stable and complete - almost to the level of the previous versions.
The way things have been run by the KDE people in the past indicates that it is HIGH time to drop KDE 5 and start (preferably from scratch) with KDE 6.
And the distro developers will then drop the working KDE as soon as they can for something new, shiny, un-proven and functionally crippled, since the software that actually works and has the necessary functionality is "no longer maintained".
58 • @52 (by OstroL on 2017-08-31 09:58:54 GMT from Poland)
What has OS/2 to do with Linux?
59 • CUA GUI (by Igor on 2017-08-31 12:26:52 GMT from Croatia)
@55 & 58
Now tell me please which one of the conventions is not implemented by KDE? Well, KDE on Linux is not OS/2, that's for sure. It's not that particular people's fault that OS/2 was discontinued. Nor is it necessarily wrong to try something else. But, when I look at all those folks gazing at their mobiles and swiping them, i'd say, never mind, KDE, or OS/2, we all are fossiles.
It's not nice new ideas about GUI, or general shift of taste towards more abstract design that are driving the development of the KDE, but the necessity to clean up and simplify the code when it periodically becomes unmaintainable. The trouble with KDE is that the project initially took its aims too high, and yes, it is very un-UNIX, and yes, it is precisely why we use it and love and hate it. But I guess it must be a nightmare to maintain and develop.
60 • @59 unmaintainable is bullshit (by curious on 2017-08-31 12:34:23 GMT from Germany)
The existence of Trinity proves that KDE 3 never was unmaintainable, periodical or otherwise.
But (and this applies to almost all projects, not only KDE) it is more *interesting* for developers to write something new than to optimise or improve code that already exists.
And the sheer size of newer projects (e.g. KDE 5 vs. KDE 3) would indicate that there is nothing "simplified" about the newer project, unless you mean the culling of useful functionalities at the beginning, only to reintroduce them later in an even more complex form.
61 • @59 I've no intention of going through CUA vs KDE (by OS2_user on 2017-08-31 14:38:11 GMT from United States)
The OS/2 desktop looks and works nothing like KDE. I guess you'll just have to trust me on that. OS/2 is also a POSIX system, therefore it's exactly like UNIX, right? Except has threads instead of processes, and other minor details.
@ "What has OS/2 to do with Linux?" Well, provides me with perspective. I don't push it, but I don't have to be expert to use OS/2 because it's generally well-thought out. It was made in the brief reasonable period between shifting from UNIX and DOS to the horrors of modern GUIs.
62 • AppImage (by Jake on 2017-08-31 19:16:16 GMT from United States)
I agree with @50. I'm surprised AppImage didn't get mentioned, especially since I first heard about it here when snaps and flatpaks came out.
The reason to make the other two is because you control the one you make. I'd rather see AppImage used everywhere and have whatever security features added as necessary. However, there is history between these two companies making stuff: Wayland, Mir; systemd, upstart; etc.
63 • Free Purism Smart phone ?? (by R O on 2017-08-31 19:47:31 GMT from United States)
I would not consider the planned 599 USD planned pricing anything like "free", although it seems reasonable for what they plan to put in it as compared to the latest/imminent "flagship" phones more in the area of 1000 USD.
I'm almost tempted since I am tired of the priced Android and iOS phones with their snooping/walled garden approaches. My preferred, somewhat less intrusive, Windows Phone 8.1 Lumia 640 is getting a bit old (in cell phone terms), and is stuck with an abandoned OS and apps frozen in time, so an open source, Linux-based phone appeals to me for many reasons. The planned Purism phone appears to even have a docking function in mind similar to Win 10 Phone's Continuum (big ratchet up in snooping factor by MS with W10P!) and the older Motorola Droid Bionic/Atrix Webtop/Lapdock features that I had found very useful (still using a Moto Lapdock for a Raspberry Pi - great mobility option).
Alas, an early 2019 expected release date, IF the crowdfunding goal of 1.5 million USD is achieved, is a bit far along in my biological lifecyle to be willing to leave that much money "dangling" for that long. If they make it, and I am still around, I will give it my full attention ;-}
64 • So use a different DE (by M.Z. on 2017-08-31 20:16:55 GMT from United States)
"Bottom line: STOP CHANGING because I can't use it."
It sounds to me like you have a fundamental difference of opinion with the goals of the desktop environment you are using. Personally I find KDE 4 & 5 to have a superb blend of configurability, traditional PC interface design, & cutting edge features. The only thing close for me is the slightly simpler yet still excellent Cinnamon DE. Of course part of what I like about KDE is that it is constantly evolving & providing me with interesting new & useful features that can enhance my experience or that I can ignore if I want. My wants are aligned perfectly with my DE & it sounds to me like you should do some investigating on which DE aligns better with what you want from a PC desktop. Since you already use & somewhat like PCLinuxOS I would start with the other desktop options on the page here:
The link was on the main PCLinuxOS site here:
Given that you mentioned an older release of PCLinuxOS & seem to like parts of KDE but not change I would try the TDE version. The Trinity Desktop is basically KDE 3 & is probably the same as the PCLinuxOS experience was 10 years ago.
"And then there's KDE's wretched color scheme and thin borders!"
I noticed I hated the Breeze them & instantly ended the flat ugliness by changing to the Oxygen theme. That's a change I hated myself, but the fix felt easy because I'm so used to KDE 4+.
Anyway, the bottom line for me is that you're just looking for the things you want in the wrong places. Find the right desktop for you & the rest should follow. After all, you wouldn't expect the new gen 7 Corvette to be exactly the same as the classic '63 Stingray would you? That's what replica cars are for & many can come with just the right blend of modern convenience & classic experience. Newer Linux Distros offer much the same, with more traditional DEs like Trinity & Mate that can be combined with the latest applications & Linux kernels.
65 • KDE on and on (by Igor on 2017-09-01 21:12:30 GMT from Croatia)
Quick search of Distrowatch for distros running Trinity as a primary DE gives two (2) results. How comes? OSs, software, hardware, everything is evolving because the computing itself is evolving, and I didn't mention mobile folks for no cause. Now, it seems quite a few guys here hate it, but, right or wrong, it's a fact.
I myself have quite a few objections to KDE5, but by this summer it became decent and useful DE, and it didn't take too much of a patience to get along with it. And, after all, at any given moment we are having terminal at hand, and that's the world resilient to usability metaphysics, changes of paradigm, taste, or fashion, streamlining programmer's imagination back to basics.
66 • Cucumber Linux (by Ronald Buckman on 2017-09-03 02:18:56 GMT from United States)
As a person who has Slackware 14.2 with elements of C4C Lubuntu ReSpin mixed in , I like the idea of Bible quotes in a distro. Also, Cucumber Linux probably doesn't have the error messages that Slackware has if GRUB is used as the bootloader. However, I wouldn't consider using Cucumber Linux in anything other than a virtual machine until some serious bugs are fixed.
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