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1 • BSD flavor (by Gilbert Sanford on 2017-08-21 00:44:38 GMT from United States)
I've been an OpenBSD user for about ten years. OpenBSD-current is hard to beat in my opinion . . .
2 • I do not run any of the BSDs, however (by OhioJoe on 2017-08-21 00:52:03 GMT from United States)
I am interested in running a version of BSD and occasionally test one, generally in VirtualBox. Thanks for the reviews.
3 • BSD's (by drlong on 2017-08-21 01:07:57 GMT from United States)
I agree with Gilbert, OpenBSD is hard to beat. It has to be hands down the easiest os to installl and maintain. Just my 2 cents and its worth exactly what you paid.
4 • Bsd flavour (by Gagandeep Singh on 2017-08-21 01:27:14 GMT from India)
I use true os (previously pc-bsd) from about an year and it's currently my most favourite thing...
5 • BSD flavors (by Blue Jay on 2017-08-21 01:30:58 GMT from United States)
I've used FreeBSD and TrueOS (back when it was still called PC-BSD) on a few occasions. Definitely robust systems and I can easily see why they have a dedicated following.
I've considered trying them again if/when the hardware support improves. (The open-source AMD stack on FreeBSD is unfortunately still far behind the current Linux developements, and my specific GCN 1.0 hardware lacks acceleration on FreeBSD as of yet.)
6 • BSD lfabor (by DaveW on 2017-08-21 01:35:50 GMT from United States)
I have been intrigued by GhostBSD for some time. While it is not my primary OS, I am trying it out on a virtual machine.
7 • OpenBSD (by Billy Larlad on 2017-08-21 01:49:15 GMT from United States)
I've been using OpenBSD on my server and my laptops since 2011 and 2013, respectively. It's really great. Generally everything Just Works. There is a real focus on sane defaults and simplicity. Bugs get fixed FAST.
Certainly, it's not for everyone. Linux is a better platform by far if you need proprietary or obscure software, use hardware not (yet) supported by a BSD, or need a GUI for everything (and I don't mean that as an insult; the lack of a way to graphically select wifi networks is a small weakness of OpenBSD, for instance).
So I keep around a Debian install, but I'd like to replace even that with OpenBSD one day.
8 • Redcore and re-sizing windows (by Alexandre Dumas on 2017-08-21 01:57:21 GMT from Australia)
Thanks Jesse for reviewing Redcore (and Calculate a few weeks back). Redcore is an interesting project.
Note that to re-size or move windows in LXQt, Openbox, XFCE and others just hold the Alt button and use the left or right mouse buttons, pointing anywhere in the window. No need to grab the edge of the window!
9 • BSD flavors (by DjangoSR on 2017-08-21 02:19:24 GMT from Suriname)
I've always been a (Free)BSD user but switched to Ubuntu server when I noticed how better Ubuntu server performed with postgresql server.
Lately due to web development In switched to MySQL/mariadb and with that decided a freebsd 11 vps was worth it.
So a mixed environment works best
10 • Redcore & Bsd.. (by what_If on 2017-08-21 04:21:27 GMT from Australia)
I've been testing Redcore for over a month, now i've installed it on 2PC's . Love it, fast & very stable. Easy install & updates so efficiently. Support on there Irc & facebook pages are great. What I like about it is ease of use & installing software binaries.. It also give you the choice to install directly from source & decide what parts of the src pkg you wish to install. That's fantastic if your a gentoo jedi master. For those not quite so literate as them, but like something more challenging & evoking your computer skills; Redcore may provide the solutions, with it's ease of installing binary software & mixed source mode.
I like to dabble in different OS's, BSD is a different kettle of fish. Love it's concept, stability & for some it's purism of BSD. Apart from TrueOs & Ghost, the two fundamental issue for linux user to make the change is the installation & driver support/compatibility (Gpu). I've installed FreeBsd/Netbsd. Not being a techie, was to hard for me a couple years ago to maintain. What is amazing is seeing how far TrueOs has come in the last 12 months from the merging of Pc-Bsd/TrueOs. In that time it has become the number one BSD distro on Distrowatch. Implemented innovative ideas that are foreign to Bsd. It's Implementation of it's own Desktop "Lumina" written primarily for "BSD". This is one of the major struggles with BSD, as most DE are written for linux, so when an update comes to the Linux DE it requires a great deal of work to maintain it BSD. A big thanks to Ken More @ ToS for his work there. Although Lumina at this point does not have a lot of the enriched features that some other DE have, It certainly will not eat up resources of some of those highly credited DE. Based freebsd 12.
I have always been a fan of rolling releases, & a dislike to SystemD. So I constantly test different OS that are free of SystemD. I was disappointed to hear last week that termination of manjaro-openrc. I tried the migration to "Artix" & it did not end very well. With benefits of Arch & open-rc, made it an easy to install Arch Non SystemD. I would love to try out PacBSD. I have not succeeding in installing PacBsd so far. On a positive not it's really easy to install OpenBsd, I've been it's supposedly the most secure OS out there. A positive about OpenBsd, is there is a default build for Tor-Browser s it's not available in the in FreeBsd ports tree so that includes other FreeBsd based distros like (Trueos, DragonFly OpenBsd PacBsd).
If you guys got this far, a big thanks for reading, my ramble ! Cheers.
11 • BSD (by Vukota on 2017-08-21 04:50:09 GMT from Serbia)
I have a VM with pfSense that I use for development, so I count that as “running“.
12 • pfSense and BSD (by edcoolio on 2017-08-21 05:16:33 GMT from United States)
Great catch @11.
It didn't even occur to me, which speaks volumes about how rock solid it can be.
@5 @7, I agree. Hardware support is lacking, which tends to make it a distant choice at times (for me) as a daily driver.
13 • Redcore Linux (by Sanjay Prasad on 2017-08-21 06:38:56 GMT from India)
lxqt the new desktop environment is not still mature but distrowatch review is quite optimistic.
Redcore provide both look and performance , idle for old computer. Tried Fedora based LXQT
it was fast and quite stable , one can try it from here
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LXQt
14 • Rolling BSD (by TheMsDosNerd on 2017-08-21 06:42:04 GMT from Netherlands)
Besides TrueOS, there's also pacBSD. It's an Arch-Linux based distro with the BSD kernel.
I believe it is also possible to use the 'unstable' rolling release model of Debian GNU/kFreeBSD.
15 • FreeBSD all the way (by RoboNuggie on 2017-08-21 07:14:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
Used to be a Linux distro hopper, never quite happy with the one installed.... not quite sure.
Saw someone running FreeBSD as their desktop.... curious, installed FreeBSD 7 around 2009, and never looked back.
Using FreeBSD 10.3 & 11.1 for all desktop, laptop and server needs.
16 • BSD (by Romane on 2017-08-21 08:44:37 GMT from Australia)
I have tried the various BSD's at various times, including recently. Have never really found it to my liking, on the few times it would install. And that was the key issue that turned me off trying BSD's again in the future - too hard to get installed and running.
17 • BSD (by Stefan on 2017-08-21 09:10:47 GMT from Germany)
I used NetBSD for about 8 years, first on server, then also as desktop. The reason for the choice was siplicity, bloatlessness (well, FreeBSD isn't really bloated, but it's bigger than NetBSD) and support for acpi-things that OpenBSD lacked at the time -- not sure if that changed. The reasons i use different things now: work requires docker and other linux-things (i make my life easy (compatible) by using linux). And on the Desktop: I've a microsoft surface device as my primary working computer (with docking stations at work and at home), and since windows 10 includes a usable bash, that's good enougth as a shell, and the brilliant hardware just works best with windows. My big home-pc runs Windows for gaming :-)
18 • BSD (by Trihexagonal on 2017-08-21 11:41:39 GMT from United States)
I helped beta test PC-BSD beginning in 2003 and in 2005 switched to vanilla FreeBSD. I currently have 5 laptops with 4 running FreeBSD and the other OpenBSD. I've also ran a home brewed pfSense firewall/rounter but am not doing so ATM.
I've tried several different Linux distros, my first being Puppy Linux on a 100MB Zip Disk, and till recently had a Debian box, but wiped that drive in favor of OpenBSD and prefer BSD over Linux.
19 • BSD Flavours (by Neville on 2017-08-21 11:42:03 GMT from Japan)
I'm currently using GhostBSD 11.1 and 10.3. Both run very well and are very easy to install. Much easier and quicker to get installed and running than vanilla FreeBSD.
20 • BSDs (by TheTKS on 2017-08-21 11:56:17 GMT from Canada)
Tried a month ago to install several dual boot with Win 10 on only one device so far (mid range HP laptop 3 years old, AMD/Radeon), partially succeeded only with Free so far. Have read the distros' reasons for being, lean toward Open for their approach to correctness and security.
Attempts: Free, Net, Open, True, DragonFly, and Ghost (also tried it live on the laptop and an old desktop, which worked only sometimes [why?].) So far, only got Free to install didn't succeed in installing a GUI. All others, either got installation failed message or it looked like they would only install whole disk, not recognizing that there was unallocated space alongside another OS, although I had had Linux installed and removed its partition with gparted, not actually removing its data from the disk (could that have been a problem?)
Fairly new to non-Win OSS, Linux with Windows since Jan 2017.
Setting BSDs aside for now and have since managed to install Slackware, would really like to try a BSD though and will get back to trying when I can set aside enough time for it.
21 • FreeBSD (by Phil on 2017-08-21 12:30:06 GMT from United States)
I've been running FreeBSD on ThinkPads (R61 then T430) since 2008. Started with FreeBSD 7.0, just upgraded to 11.1. I appreciate the excellent documentation.
22 • Memo to Rolling-with-a-different-operating-system (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-08-21 12:46:40 GMT from United States)
Void Linux may suit you. Its leader came out of NetBSD. It resembles BSD (binary/source options) and Arch (fast rolling). It avoids systemd, something quite specific to Linux.
For adventure try PacBSD. You already know pacman. You get choice of init and core utils. Overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udGaooPIIKw
BSDs are slow on apps. When BSDs keep them fresh, I'll ditch Linux. Here is FreeBSD lounge chair advocacy for curious Linux folks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cofKxtIO3Is
It's fun inside baseball, but as usual, neglects app deadwood to dwell on dev tools, server bandwidths, ancient history, attracting banks as users, and related non-app crap. All I want for Christmas is for FreeBSD to ship apps in harmony with upstream.
23 • setting up a GUI on FreeBSD (by Trihexagonal on 2017-08-21 12:59:48 GMT from United States)
@20 "So far, only got Free to install didn't succeed in installing a GUI."
FreeBSD doesn't come with Xorg included with the base system and has to be built separately, along with the DE or WM you prefer and other 3rd party programs. If you use the pkg system it's a matter of minutes to set it up as opposed to hours compiling ports, which I personally prefer to use.
OpenBSD does include Xenocara in the base system and you boot directly to a desktop after the base install.
I have a tutorial on my site that guides you through the whole process of getting a fully functional FreeBSD desktop up and running, complete with security and system settings, that spells it out step by step and is geared toward people with no prior UNIX or command line experience.
I have also posted it to the FreeBSD forums and you can receive further guidance there if need be.
24 • BSDs are nice but Linux is too good (by robert on 2017-08-21 13:50:33 GMT from Austria)
I have a soft spot for the BSDs but after using Linux for about 15 years, I think my tinker-days are over.
The systemd invasion forced me to use pure distributions that are not tainted by systemd; most of the time I end up doing LFS and BLFS anyway though. On my Linux system this workflow works very well and I can update what I want to, when I want to, without others interfering in this process.
I am unaware of whether BSD allows such customizations.
25 • Using BSD (by Matthew Rivers on 2017-08-21 13:59:56 GMT from United States)
For about 4 months, I used t1n1wall, as a router/firewall. It's based on m0n0wall.
I decided to switch to IPfire, because i needed some more features, but t1n1wall did what it promised very well.
26 • freebsd (by tma on 2017-08-21 14:06:05 GMT from United States)
I’ve been using freebsd as the primary OS on my thinkpad for a few months, and it’s generally been going well.
(In previous freebsd efforts, living elsewhere, wifi was shaky and freebsd-update/pkg weren’t robust enough—-at least at the time—to cope well.)
I tried openbsd briefly a couple of years ago but the lack of package updates for stable releases was just crazy.
27 • I have (by Job on 2017-08-21 14:11:29 GMT from United States)
I once had an installation of FreeBSD but it was a pain to set up the xserver for a BSD newbie. The latest release came out and I did not bother anymore but I am planning to go back to FreeBSD.
28 • BSD Poll (by cykodrone on 2017-08-21 14:30:05 GMT from Canada)
BSD is certainly a different 'animal' than Linux, even though they're cousins, I found it to be like learning another 'language'. My dabbling occurred when systemd was swallowing almost every Linux distro like an unstoppable cult, I'm not one to easily jump on a bandwagon like a fanboi distracted by shiny objects. I even buy hardware that has matured on the market, not only do I get a better prices, the bugs have been worked out of the hardware and it's almost always Linux supported and compatible. But I digress, BSD seemed stable and all, but it felt like reviving a dinosaur, I tried several flavours, researched like crazy, printed out phone books of documentation, but in the end, I've been too spoiled by Linux and its user friendly distros to bother scraping some knuckles and getting dirty up to the elbows. Maybe if I was previously a Mac guy, I would have already had wet feet.
29 • The BSDs are awesome on the server; desktop--not so much (by Andre on 2017-08-21 14:44:27 GMT from Canada)
I have FreeBSD running on a couple of machines. It's a great OS in many respects. But I wouldn't recommend it as a desktop platform. The unfortunate reality is that the BSDs are second-class citizens when it comes to open-source desktop software development. Most of what you will run on the desktop will have originally been designed for and tested on Linux, and that comes with all sorts of consequences--not the least of which is that sometimes porting can take a while. For instance, as far as I'm aware, none of the BSDs currently offer KDE Plasma 5 without you going out of your way to get it from some developmental repository or trying to build it yourself.
Now, if you don't care about running the latest bits, then the BSDs are great. I even have one application, Trojita, which has been less buggy for me under FreeBSD than Arch Linux. But that's a rarity. You have to be prepared to make a lot of exceptions in most cases if you want to use a BSD operating system on your desktop PC.
30 • BSD (by rdaniels on 2017-08-21 15:02:38 GMT from United States)
I do not currently run any BSDs, but in the past I've used (in order): OpenBSD, DragonFly, FreeBSD, and most recently PC-BSD (now TrueOS).
They all work mostly fine, and there are some interesting features out there in BSD land, but I still would rather not use one as a daily driver. Mostly because I'm just used to Linux. Whether I spend 6 hours, days, or months on a BSD, it just feels slightly alien. But there are also issues with the third party applications. Most open source development is Linux first, BSD second if at all. So apps tend to become buggy and/or out of date.
31 • BSD? No. No thanks (by tom joad on 2017-08-21 15:35:33 GMT from Finland)
I have never done BSD. I have thought about it but that is as far as I have gotten.
The principle reason being I have hundreds of versions of Linux to use, play with, look over, work through, etc. Some of those versions are really nice specialty versions setup for specific needs and purposes.
Another reason is development is much better in the Linux field than in the BSD area. I always suspected that. After reading some of the comments I now know my suspicions were true.
Last, Linux runs the software that I need and that selection is wider and more current.
I am sure BSD is nice and functional and all. If it were not for Linux we would all be over there. Luckily we have it better over here though who knows what the future will bring.
32 • GUI on BSD (by TheTKS on 2017-08-21 17:47:43 GMT from Canada)
@23 FreeBSD doesn't come with Xorg
I knew that and followed the installation instructions, but think I did something wrong (rather than there being a hardware or software issue) and ran out of time to dig into it. It'll have to wait until I have time for another go at it. If that still doesn't work, I'll give the tutorial on your site a try. Thanks for the suggestion.
33 • Redcore Linux (by Ghiunhan Mamut on 2017-08-21 19:36:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
First of all thank you for the review, it is a very honest one and is highly appreciated.
Second of all, most of the issues you encountered are already fixed, or in progress of being fixed.
The ugly UI you faced was just a Qt qgtkstyle regression, it was fixed.
Libreoffice UI is now fixed as well. Default theming was also fixed, apps will look more uniform from now on. That being said, I'm happy that most issues you mentioned are cosmetic ones.
Regarding booting on real HW :
- booting from DVD should work without any issue be it MBR or EFI.
- booting from USB should work without any issue as long as the thumb drive label is set to REDCORE . This is actually our fault, documentation is still our weak point.
And in the end, let me address the concern about space. Yes, Redcore will take more space than many other distros for several reasons :
- libraries are built both as shared and static
- packages are built as upstream intended, there is no package splitting (wine, wine-devel, wine-mono, wine-d3d9), so development headers are included
- packages downloaded during an upgrade are being kept in cache, and not removed (I'm working to provide a way to clean the package cache)
34 • BSD (by vic on 2017-08-21 21:51:22 GMT from Canada)
I currently do not run any, just too comfortable using Linux. Every once in a while I do get the urge to give it a test run on a spare system. Generally a decent experience but it doesn't take long before I'm missing something or stumble enough that I move back into a more comfortable deb or arch based distro again.
35 • DragonFly BSD (by dirk on 2017-08-21 23:03:31 GMT from United States)
DragonFly BSD user on an HP i5 laptop and an ASUS Celeron netbook. I may be the only one on my block though...
36 • RE #33 Redcore (by More Gee on 2017-08-22 03:20:55 GMT from United States)
I am seeing a lot of sloppiness with booting and installation on most new Distros. It started with Debian 9 and seems to have spread across to others. I never did get Ultimate edition 5.5 to install. The boot-loader would only run the first option on menu which was run live from DVD, when it did come up about 5 minutes later all the fonts were washed out the KDE windows in the graphic install program. No desktop would work so I went into the loaded font and turned it to bold so I could at least read the menus. Then an old bug that I have not seen in while came up where it would not recognize any FAT entries in any drive (even ultimate edition) and wanted me to chose which drive to format and install. Even mounting the drives did not help so I stopped right there. Ultimate edition also comes with a bunch of dead apps that are either miss-configured or out of date. The last time I installed it it took 18gb and CUPS did not work as it could not see anything on the network.
37 • bootloader.. (by what_if on 2017-08-22 05:04:39 GMT from Australia)
@36
If your PC is EFI , consider trying rEFInd boot loader.. It's quite impressive, I discovered it TrueOs, as there dual boot option. It picks up just about every Os with ease, & no modifications to grub required ( that is, if an existing Os is using grub) or even a live installer that uses grub.
I know it works MacOS, I have run it with Windows, every linux I have tested it on 2 BSD's, TrueOs & OpenBsd. I will not use anything else anymore.
http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind
really easy to install.. No more grub-update, while testing out other distros.. No more grub failure or kernel crashing..
38 • BSD (by zykoda on 2017-08-22 06:40:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Have tried several BSD in the past (5 years) when I've had a spare primary partiton to format.Quite impressive. Running Windows/linux multiboots means having at least a second disk on which to install a BSD flavour. Thus, the reorganisation of disk space deters from installing any BSD.
39 • Some of the reasons that I do not use FreeBSD based distributions (by Paschalis Sposito on 2017-08-22 07:16:44 GMT from Greece)
ZFS moans if the drives sizes are different,
No LVM2 equivalent...gvinum or gconcat ? Root, Home, Swap on LVM?
Lack of Desktop applications, such as Skype e.t.c.
No compatibility with XFS, Ext4 e.t.c. filesystems....
40 • BSD FileySystem Compatabilty (by what_If on 2017-08-22 08:35:35 GMT from Australia)
@39
What you state is true.
On my Desktop I have an internal Drive formatted to ext2. I save everything in that ext2 drive, so regardless if I'm using either Linux/Bsd I have access to or my data. If using windows tools like Ext2Fsd are available.
41 • Redcore (by Mr. J on 2017-08-22 10:46:30 GMT from Slovenia)
It would be great if Redcore would have a persistant option for USB use...
42 • BSD (by me2 on 2017-08-22 12:47:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I just about run freebsd. I do mean just about. Sometimes it seems like its one step forward one step back. I have been tempted on several occasions to ditch freebsd. But I do have it on both my laptop and desktop - but not run all the time - only when I have the time. Its not good with everything and it is like taking a large ten year step back in time; all those problems that linux has ironed out that bsd still has. I cant see it being my main rig/desktop.
43 • bsd (by me2 on 2017-08-22 12:50:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
@41-yeah I know the filesystem compatiblity thing is a problem. I did the same as you and have an externale usb drive formatted to ext2. But it still sucks as too often the filesystem to to be rechecked. Recently I pluggeb that drive into a rpi and have the rpi run a nfs server that bsd can access; no reformatting needed.
44 • BSD (by Todd Firkins on 2017-08-22 13:11:38 GMT from United States)
I just started to dable with FreeBSD that is part of an OPNSense firewall I just installed. I just added NUT to the firewall and that was a bit of a project but the firewall is working well. I have not tried a desktop variant yet.
45 • using BSDs (by M.Z. on 2017-08-22 19:01:26 GMT from United States)
I'm running pfSense as a FreeBSD based firewall distro, though it's off & on when I have the right old hardware that is working properly. If the fan on a seconhand box of mine weren't making a grinding noise I'd be running it right now & feeling even more secure than I do with just Linux.
I have had some significant hardware compatibility issues when I tried to run BSD on the desktop in the past. I think I'm the only one on my block running Linux as a desktop & I'd guess that #35 is the only one for many blocks around running BSD on the desktop, given how rare it seems to be. I do hope it gets to the state of being at least as good on the desktop as Linux is now. BSD has been a really good firewall for me though.
Also BSD pumps vast quantities of video streams off the netflix servers. It seems to truly excel at streaming TV. I'd still like to put BSD to more direct use though.
46 • Alternate Universes Beckon BSD (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-08-23 03:40:25 GMT from United States)
A thought occurred to me. Rather than try desktops, BSD should play to its other strengths: Write open-source firmware for motherboards.
BSD succeeds in embedded systems and networking servers. The devs love low-level tinkering. The license appeals to vendors. BSD needs drivers.
A move into motherboard firmware would one-up Linux and help libre life. Linux has little presence in firmware, though lots of drivers.
If a vendor ships closed forks or clones, we could just reflash with public firmware. Where compatibility prohibits, reverse engineering remains possible, but I see a different outcome.
Many firms want outsourcing and crowdsourcing help. They profit on hardware markup, not code. Even walled-gardener Apple tried a FOSS kernel and OpenFirmware. Most mobos already use third-party firmware of some standard flavor. It's just closed source so these third parties can profit. They will die, I hope. Libre people would not buy boards lacking a 'BSD inside' approval sticker. So the market could drive vendors towards FOSS.
Example. If OpenBSD sold a motherboard running OpenBSD firmware with all necessary drivers and kernels on board, I'd be the first to buy it. Imagine all the security gurus lining up behind me...
47 • BSD's (by commenter 47 on 2017-08-23 06:01:52 GMT from Australia)
#42 BSD "is like taking a large ten year step back in time"
Well said. The current trend in OS development is microkernels with verified code, concurrency, and built-in hypervisers. But they're usually for embedded devices. Exception is Minix with a microkernel + OpenBSD compatibility. But it still doesn't have USB support yet.
It seems that OS projects don't progress much if they don't get a large userbase who like to hack the code. That means both good and bad stuff: apps, hacking, malware etc. Without that, OS's are just a basic codebase, with a lot of developers' dreams on top.
48 • BSD (by scuttlebuck on 2017-08-23 08:51:41 GMT from Nicaragua)
Many moons ago When i first found Linux I was working as a windows Virus remover and found in invaluable in my quests....
Then someone Mentioned BSD. and being seen as the real computer expert (i used Linux) expected this to be an easy task......Oh My how wrong....Probably the only OS that lost me and beat me completely
Since then I have had regular attempts with one or the other different BSDs and now at least I can regularly get a running Machine, all be it feeling like i have installed an Old Linux Distro.....which is great .....But not what I can use for much anymore
I Did try GhostBSD recently that was showing a lot of Promise
I Can't fault any of the BSDs I have had running servers, firewalls and Desktops and have all seemed very stable,
Maybe im getting Old and Lazy now but i find it easier to not spend too may hours trying to fathom something out when i can Install something else that i can use out of the blocks
49 • Black Labs Gnome edition is Unity (by tim on 2017-08-23 12:00:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi
just downloaded Black Labs Gnome edition and it has Unity desktop not Gnome. Nice though and on my windows tablet works a little better than Ubuntu
quick comment on the surveys. Before you ran them comments were most about your reviews and recent releases and additions. Now mostly comments ae about the survey. I used to learn more from the comments before
a favorite site still though
50 • Is Simplicity Linux still active? (by Pestokiwa on 2017-08-23 12:03:16 GMT from United States)
Can anybody tell if Simplicity is still developed/maintained? On Distrowatch it is listed as 'active', but the last post on their homepage is from August '16, last activity on their Github page was on November '16 ...
51 • Torn apart between Black Lab and SolusOS (by Hornero on 2017-08-23 15:16:03 GMT from Canada)
i downloaded Black Lab (XFCE) yesterday, and I'm already torn apart, as fell in love with its beauty, lightness, lightning speed, and user-friendlies ... Therefore, I'm now seriously thinking to use it permanently on my desktop, instead of SolusOS, which i have been very happily using for a long time as my favorite distro.
By the way, i understand that the latest release of Black Lab's Enterprise edition comes with Linux kernel 4.10.0-37. And, now, i wonder if the current edition of Black Lab's XFCE flavour is, also, using the same Linux kernel 4.10.0-37.??
52 • BSD? Oh yes. (by azuvil on 2017-08-23 17:41:46 GMT from United States)
The workhorse router that serves my entire network has a stock OpenBSD-current installation on it. The computer I'm using right now was a dedicated FreeBSD machine for quite awhile, and now I run different BSDs in virtual machines from time to time. Really, it's hard to go wrong when you know what you want from the operating system and it delivers so well.
Come to think of it, the last few GNU/Linux distros I've been using seriously (Slackware and Gentoo) have stretched closer to BSD territory. It's funny how tastes develop.
53 • @49, BSDs (by Jake on 2017-08-23 18:52:41 GMT from United States)
I think it depends on the week. I like having a lot of discussion about anything here: polls, review, etc. I also get a lot out of the comments, which is why I read every week.
I have yet to try BSDs. I've looked at them more because of systemd (their lack thereof). I tried OpenBSD in a VM many years ago when I was fed up with Windows and was ready that weekend to wipe my XP partition. I was very glad I didn't. That was the first time I learned about mounting disks, and the whole experience at the time was very frustrating (not OpenBSD's fault; I was over my head).
54 • BSD as bloatware? (by M.Z. on 2017-08-23 19:12:36 GMT from United States)
@46
"BSD succeeds in embedded systems and networking servers. The devs love low-level tinkering. The license appeals to vendors. BSD needs drivers.
A move into motherboard firmware would one-up Linux and help libre life. ..."
So you're saying you don't think people are complaining enough about bloated OSes & you'd like to load an entire BSD operating system into all PC firmware by default? It's not just bloat either, a complicated universal firmware could create significant security holes that would likely either go unnoticed & un-patched by typical users, or create a huge number of failures after patching.
I've seen the failure after patching happen on pfSense when the upstream folks at FreeBSD decided that some old serial hardware wasn't worth supporting. My free old junk firewall PC became nearly worthless, as a boot time of what was probably less than a minute began taking hours. I'm not sure how long I actually gave it but after a couple of resets & some 30 plus minute waits while I was off doing other things, I decided there was something seriously wrong. I'm sure the average Linux user wouldn't be all that bothered by going to the forums to troubleshoot & finding the correct settings in BIOS to turn of the old legacy serial support; however, it's still a pain & probably a massive problem for average PC users as a whole.
There are plenty of merits to open hardware & firmware as a whole, but I think stuffing an entire Unix-like OS of any kind down into firmware would be a bad move. Unless of course we all have 12+ CPU cores, a very durable on board SSD for firmware, 16+ GB of RAM, & a very good system in place for handling the patching of BSD 'firmware'. On the whole, not really worth it.
BSD is great for firewall OSs & servers that stream netflix & such, but I just don's see why it would mix very well with firmware. BSD getting more common on the desktop seems far more realistic to me.
55 • Firm where? (by FOSSilizing Dinosaur on 2017-08-23 22:29:18 GMT from United States)
Perhaps @46 meant "embedded" systems?
Open-Source firmware does sound like a very good idea.
(Don't some motherboards advertise Linux onboard?)
56 • Mighty Zany Strikes Back (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-08-24 01:50:25 GMT from United States)
Hi MZ @54, you're not mad at me, you just don't know it yet. You're mad at FreeBSD and your loopy self for not RTFM. I work in embedded systems, the final holdout for DB-9 serial ports, often mandatory in development. Read my postings. They advocate old h/w support and rib kernel devs chasing shiny shiny from Las Vegas consumergizmocons.
Your anecdote proves my point, thank you. Had your BIOS been BSDIOS, not an import-export mystery chip, it would have had docs and support.
Hypothetical BSDIOS for any given board would by definition include all the drivers for it. If "universal" political decisions are your problem, dedicated firmware is your answer.
We already got insecure bloatware BIOS, BECAUSE FOSS FOLKS WERE NOT OFFERING SOMETHING ELSE. We got UEFI, courtesy vendor committees. Using FAT filesystem. Go, security!
Embedded whatzits at Big Box Suckermart often run DOS. Yes, Miscreant DOS. Embedded SDKs are based on DOS. Would you prefer FreeBSD, or not?
If the shiny whatzit doesn't run DOS, it boots a custom hackathon created by backroom nerds trying to make sales happy. Sales doesn't give a fig about bugs, bloat, or security. What sales execs obsess upon is OPAQUENESS and DON'T LET THE CUSTOMERS KNOW WE GOT BUGS OR HOLES. And if customers do find out, issue press releases on our deep concern for quality.
I notice people booting SSDs nowadays. Meanwhile with UEFI firmware is getting big. So these days the distinction between firmware and boot disk is getting silly. Half the arguments about systemd were boot times. And nobody thought about putting the kernel in the firmware?
I see plenty of room for BSDs to offer libre boards and/or libre bootware for 3rd-party boards. How much OS code belongs on board will depend on its design specifics.
DD-WRT fits *nix into 4MB or 8MB flash space across for dozens upon dozens of models. I don't see why something similar can't be done for mobos. It's been twenty years and BSD has shown very little interest in good desktop support. Does your printer work? How about that monitor? Never mind ancient serial ports.
What BSD has shown is a whole lotta kernel cruftwerken. I merely opined that such natural interest is better targeted at firmware, a market nobody in FOSS is serving. The Raspberry Pi success story is also a good lesson. BSD nerds could design new libre mainboards with whatever flash size seems best, and open-source schematics.
57 • Simplicity Linux (by Winchester on 2017-08-24 13:18:50 GMT from United States)
In response to post # 50 ......
Simplicity Linux was a clone of LxPupSC (Simplicity 15.1) and LxPup (later versions of Simplicity).
Simplicity just added some more wallpapers and the wBar launcher.
They couldn't even figure out the script to delay launching the wBar 8 to 10 seconds to avoid a black rectangle around the wBar.
Then,they said that they would be switching the base to antiX or maybe it was Knoppix but,either way it seems pointless when you could just use antiX or Knoppix or Debian or LxPupSC. Pointless besides additional wallpapers.
I believe that it is a mistake by DistroWatch to not include LxPup / LxPupSC as "not ready" especially when a clone with more wallpapers (Simplicity) is included as ready.
LxPupSC has a weird name but,it is one of the best distributions going. Blazing fast,run in RAM. I am a little bit uneasy about running as root but,I run FireFox as a normal user. The default desktop is cluttered and looks dated,especially the menu but it can be adjusted and it is well worth the time.
58 • OpenBSD-6.1 (by MENSKY on 2017-08-24 21:14:18 GMT from United States)
Every time I install OpenBSD I can't get my HP PSC 1500 printer to print. I even tried the lpr thing that comes with BSD which says print to file,well I don't want to print to file, I want to print to paper. I used many distros and always return to linux mint which always works without doing any configuring after install.
59 • BSD chill pill (by open OS user on 2017-08-24 22:48:01 GMT from Australia)
@56 Archy, you reply as if people are attacking you personally. That's not the case. We all come here because we like using Linux and other open OS's. Everyone has useful comments to make according to their own experiences and expectations. Your own comment on using BSD as firmware is also of interest. I think we all help developers since some of them drop in here from time to time. So relax and enjoy the to-and-fro of conversations. .
60 • @54 Linux is Already in Firmware (by Jake on 2017-08-25 16:09:11 GMT from United States)
Most BMCs (board management controllers) are already running stripped down versions of Debian or other distributions. These ICs are used for IPMI and remote system management. And yes, they are open to all sorts of vulnerabilities because they do not get regular patches (one of many reasons not to put IPMI on a public connection). I like the idea of BSD being used for a similar purpose if only to put some pressure on treating these embedded systems as updatable systems. There are only a few vendors that actually write BIOS or BMC firmware. Sometimes I'm amazed that stuff works considering all the bugs/issues we find at work.
61 • @56, @59 (by Jake on 2017-08-25 16:22:13 GMT from United States)
I think Arch Watcher's comments are spot on if you're in that part of the industry. I can confirm everything he was saying and think what he proposes would be a good idea. There is definitely a space for better solutions in these low-level spaces.
Think about it this way: why do people say "unless you're having a problem, don't update your BIOS/firmware/etc"? The real reason is that this stuff is full of problems, and you're likely to introduce bugs or brick your hardware or something else bad happening because it is so closed and of such low quality. Seriously, it is that bad. I wish there was more incentive to do something about it because a lot of corporate profits drive keeping things the way they are.
The point I see in bringing stuff like this up is to make people aware and get people talking about it. I love the suggest of the BSD teams taking stuff like this on, but of course, I'm not them, and they are free to do whatever they want. This is the first time I've heard such an idea, so maybe if people talk about stuff like this enough, the right people will take notice and give things a try.
62 • Freebeastie 11 (by Simurgh on 2017-08-25 21:38:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
Once the beastie took hold, am reasonably sure its goodbye to GNU/linux at least for the time being. There's a purity in the BSDs that the penguins cannot match, if that makes any sense at all. Running 11.1 on a mainstream AMD 64 machine and ARM raspis currently. Loving it.
63 • @61 (by edcoolio on 2017-08-25 21:47:15 GMT from United States)
That may all be true, but it was still very, very annoying to read #56.
#59 was correct in this regard.
64 • @62: FreeBSD (by dragonmouth on 2017-08-26 14:19:27 GMT from United States)
If FreeBSD or any other BSD were as easy to install and maintain as Ubuntu, I would agree with you. However, based on the comments so far, it seems that even the most user-friendly BSDs are not ready to supplant the penguin. Just because you have the BSD expertise does not mean that many others do too. Neurosurgery and/or rocket science are easy if you know them.
65 • BSD (by Jordan on 2017-08-26 19:45:12 GMT from United States)
Tried a few here and there over the years. Found them primitive and requiring too much effort to get things going as I need and to just do work. Lately it's gotten much better and had Dragonfly and TruOS on my old laptop for a while.
Linux won, though. Just my familiarity with the system and my druthers.
66 • firmware & stuff (by M.Z. on 2017-08-26 22:08:18 GMT from United States)
@56, @61,
& @60: "Most BMCs (board management controllers) are already running stripped down versions of Debian or other distributions..."
That being true, BSD probably would be a reasonable choice for similar operations & it could pick up better hardware support by performing such a role; however, the real problem would be getting enough community buy in to really do it right & make it wide spread.If equipment makers are having trouble now, how do you create any more accountability in the future when they can point at the community & say, 'well what were they doing about it?". I mean how do we avoid an OpenSSL situation? I don't think putting a BSD there soles the issue any more than any other firmware option, the real problem is buy in & accountability.
67 • BSD (by sverige on 2017-08-27 20:33:42 GMT from United States)
I tried many different distros of Linux and the BSDs about 7 years ago, and occasionally since then. None have proven to be as stable, simple, correct, and secure as OpenBSD. It may take a little more work to get things set up the way you want initially compared to something like OpenSUSE or Mint, but once that's done, it's very easy to maintain. There has been no reason to go to something else since. And since systemd has been forced into the Linux world, if there were only Linux and Windows, I think Windows would be the better option.
68 • systemd (by Winchester on 2017-08-27 22:33:18 GMT from United States)
The prior post goes off the rails towards the end.
There are plenty of Linux distributions without systemd as noted last week. Notably PClinuxOS , almost the entire Gentoo family besides Sabayon, Devuan, Nelum, Refracta, MX-Linux,the SlackWare family, Void Linux, and Alpine Linux.
I am sure that I am leaving some out also.
Additionally,systemd doesn't make a Linux distribution worse than Windows. Not by far,in my opinion.
Number of Comments: 68
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