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1 • Swag Arch (by Linuxista on 2017-08-07 00:28:20 GMT from United States) |
I can't see the point of Swag Arch. If you want to install Arch from a respin, use Archlabs, Archbox or OB Revenge. At least with those you get a well-configured Openbox desktop to start with, or Openbox AND i3 in the case of Archlabs. This is real value added by the distro developers that would take hours of configuring to get to an equivalent point of usability and attractiveness. XFCE is so easy to install and configure on Arch there is almost no value added to having it pre-installed as your desktop. Swag appears to be nothing more than an (badly implemented) installer and a vanity distro project, like all the Ubuntu respins of yore.
2 • RE: Swag Arch (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2017-08-07 01:09:59 GMT from United States)
Yeah, as far as I'm concerned Arch is fine as is - no extra package managers, live media, etc. Yes, it could use a better installer, but I'm fine with "ArchBoot".
3 • Debian - its not just the LiveCD that has boot/install problems (by DistroRolling on 2017-08-07 02:29:56 GMT from Philippines)
Oh, Debian Stretch... Its not just the live cd that is having install or boot problems. i have been using the normal dvd install disks and when you install on a system with an already installed windows on a separate harddisk, this will not install the necessary boot files needed for the system to boot up. whether you use grub or bios mode, or uefi system will not boot up. You need to manually fix and reinstall grub/eufi using another debian/ubuntu livecd.
The KDE install also is very unstable.
4 • Debian Live (by Ben Myers on 2017-08-07 03:37:49 GMT from United States)
I urge the Debian crew to keep the live desktops and to test them well. I use the live distros to test and evaluate their features, and it takes a lot less time to do it live than to run through a full install. Who knows? Maybe some day after running a live Debian distro, I may be convinced to make it my go-to distro.
5 • Swag Arch & too many Linux distros ? DISTROWATCH !! (by Greg Zeng on 2017-08-07 03:43:19 GMT from Australia)
This a standard "human resource management" issue. It will never be easily solved. Open source operating systems (BSD, Linux & Blockchain) attract many innovators, who cannot work well in teams, or with other people. For example, "parenting" distributions (Red Hat, Debian, Arch, etc) spawn many children & grand-children. Generally the parents are being so true to themselves, that they ignore the suggested "innovations" of their offspring.
In the "individualism" bias, it is easiest to avoid group discussion-decisions by sole-hero bravery, or vanity-publishing. This explains DIVERSITY. Cognitive overload prevents everyone benefitting from so much diversity. This is why "DISTROWATCH" exists. DISTROWATCH "summarizes" overwhelming complexity (too much DATA) into rational, digestible INFORMATION.
6 • Swag Arch (by Roger Brown on 2017-08-07 03:59:30 GMT from Australia)
I tried Swag Arch a couple of weeks ago on a VM (which I still have). I had no issues with the installer and found this distro to be a quite effective and fast method of getting a reasonably 'pure' Arch installation going.
I thought it had some of the user friendliness of Manjaro without the disadvantage of the delayed updates.
Like all these 'Arch inspired' distros, it *is* Arch under the hood - at least a basic knowledge of the underlying OS is always an advantage.
But it's well worth a try.
7 • Debian CD1 & Live ISO installer broken (by Re: 3 on 2017-08-07 05:38:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Debian 9 live ISO insatller requires network to install. Wont proceed without setting up soruce.list. FAIL!
Debian 9 CD1 which comes with XFCE installs without network in VirtualBOx but won't even boot in real machine. FAIL AGAIN!
Debian need to fix their live ISO installer and it should be default not dropped. Debian 4 installer was also broken which drove me to Ubuntu. Unity drove me back to Debian 7/8 with XFCE. Now I am in process of moving from Debian 8.9 to Xubuntu 16.04.3 for all my machines.
8 • Debian Live (by Simon Morgan on 2017-08-07 07:56:30 GMT from United States)
The issue is not just the Live images. Debian Stretch is quite a disaster and not what one would expect.
9 • Oh Dear (by Darren Hale on 2017-08-07 09:58:59 GMT from New Zealand)
Sad times for a once great distro. Debian wouldn't release till the bugs were worked out. Conservative was their mantra then they force systemd - try removing that from Buster.
I have one message for Debian - check your work before releasing.
10 • Swag-ger (by Simpleton on 2017-08-07 10:39:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
As usual, Jesse's review is comprehensive, informative and honest - but Jesse may be far too generous? His comments might suggest it's an unnecessary lemon. That seems to concord with No. & No.2, above. Show-stoppers from the start, lotsa bugs to squash. The main conclusion from his review is that Xfce is still a great DT, despite the ham-fisted application of those developers.
11 • Debian LiveCDs (by Someone on 2017-08-07 11:09:21 GMT from Greece)
I was thinking lately about how much Debian changed from version 5 to version 9. I concluded that Debian is a Server OS with Desktop features on top. Reading about the LiveCDs today, I was right. Ubuntu and its derivatives are more important that I used to think.
12 • Unity, Artix (by a on 2017-08-07 11:49:21 GMT from France)
I voted "let it die" because I tried to use Ubuntu 17.04 and couldn’t even find how to list the installed programs or open a terminal… I don’t understand how this can be the main/default user interface for that distro…
About Artix, it’s good news because using OpenRC under Manjaro was too complicated. But without 32 bit packages it’s of no use to me. Anyway since it’s based on Arch it will break too often for my taste (and yes I know what I’m talking about, I used Arch for five years.)
13 • Swag Arch + Debian (by Bonky Ozmond on 2017-08-07 12:17:14 GMT from Nicaragua)
agree with (No1 +5) I applaud any new Distros its great people still develop them I just wish people would try to do something different as many could almost be exactly the same with different wall papers,
Linux used to be great distro hopping every new distro when it came out as people had different ideas and tried different things, now i have to check which one i am trying as it's hard to find differences
I guess the will to compete against MS and recently systemD has unified a lot
Swag installed ok But i dont like Installers prefer old ways...
I cant say its is a bad distro it kept things minimal and i liked the encrypt thing like jesse
I like Arch and i liked Manjaro,and Arch bang....and i could just as easy like Swag......though ill stick with Gentoo and Sackware for now
On the Manaro subject The RC community edition was seen as a big thing for them at one time...now its gone on its own ....wonder if there was bickering in the forums again, one reason i stopped using Manjaro.
Debian oh Debian what are you doing...you used to be THE reliable distro people could depend on well tested....(never liked me much i must say) but i cant install it at all ...not going to try to hard either but surely the installer was tested on more than one computer
14 • Unity living on... (by OstroL on 2017-08-07 12:51:28 GMT from Poland)
>> Is Unity 7 dead?
Unity 7 was the default desktop environment for Ubuntu users for the past several years. While new development on Unity 7 has ceased, existing versions of the desktop are still being supported... <<
You can install Unity in default Ubuntu 17.10 and use Unity without the Gnome shell, GDM, Gnome session etc. Unity works quite well with Ubuntu 17.10 and you can see this happening in here, https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2367282.
15 • I hate Unity Desktop, but doesn't means it should be sent to the grave :) (by BeGo on 2017-08-07 13:02:46 GMT from Indonesia)
I am confident there Those who love Unity and willing to create Unibuntu :P
16 • Debian live (by seacat on 2017-08-07 14:03:11 GMT from Argentina)
It would be a pity if Debian live is discontinued, because is very useful this version on several situations
17 • @3, @11 Debian Installer Problems (by Mike on 2017-08-07 14:37:49 GMT from Kenya)
Yes, admittedly Debian Stretch has had some problems with the installer. But once installed I have found it to be as stable as usual. I think that we shouldn't forget that as users of FOSS, we too have a responsibility. And that is we should try to help these projects, either by volunteering or by donating money to support them and thus help to improve the quality of the product!
18 • @15 (by lenn on 2017-08-07 14:39:04 GMT from Canada)
Its not a case of love and hate. Its a case of testing the Unity DE with care in the Ubuntu Forums. Its interesting that this testing is done by someone, who uses Openbox. People, who use Openbox don't care too much about DEs, but are open to test any DE without prejudice.
Debian Live was discontinued by the person, who created it, as it appears because of backstabbing. The guys, who sort of hijacked it cannot really create a good live iso, it seems.
19 • Unity (by Sasi on 2017-08-07 15:14:06 GMT from Kuwait)
Realization comes very late, for some people, be it an individual or be it an organization. The users of Ubuntu have a big sigh of relief that at least now the widely used, admired, distro has finally taken a wise decision. Gnome is slowly but steadily improving - polishing - the interface so that the large number of users can come back to its fold, as being the most user friendly environment. So, the combination would definitely take the Linux usage go a long way and would surpass the leader, in the near future. Best wishes!
20 • Unity Panel (by Paperless Tiger on 2017-08-07 15:21:33 GMT from United States)
Unity was a good idea, but they kept making it worse, less customizable and less modular. I ran Unity 2D Session for a while, because I liked the Panel, but I didn't like the clunky Dock, and I hated having to deploy the awkward, bloated Dash just to launch a program. Unity Panel with a regular menu button would be great.
21 • UNITY and Debian (by edcoolio on 2017-08-07 17:43:43 GMT from United States)
I don't cold install any distro without checking it out live. Fix the installer. No matter what anyone says, there is no excuse. This is Debian, what ever happened to no-fuss clean installs with complete distro stability as the goal before release?
Ubuntu Unity @12, 19, 20:
DIE! Die I say! All of those resources wasted on the most annoying, non-flexible desktop ever created by man. Well, maybe not that bad, but you get my drift.
I attempted to use Unity for a week and discovered very quickly that I would have to relearn everything in order to use this desktop. Needing actual production, I let it go. It occurs to me that there are many people out there that love Unity and took the (long) time to figure it out. Those people will now be rewarded with their loyalty and effort by being dropped like third period French.
Just a few changes for the people that stuck with Unity:
To quote Didier Roche (https://didrocks.fr/2017/08/03/ubuntu--guadec-2017-and-plans-for-gnome-shell-migration/)
"some things will change for our user coming from an Unity experience. Off the top of my head, global menu, the HUD, alt-tab behavior, messaging menus, volume notifications, launcher integration via running apps & software center, lenses & scopes, and other tweaks are thus not be part of the default experience anymore"
Gee... is that all? I'm sure those users that learned and stuck with the bizarre desktop will not be upset at all.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
22 • Quick search application (by Jesse on 2017-08-07 18:59:02 GMT from Canada)
Since someone e-mailed me to ask, I thought others might want to know the answer to this. The quick file search application I mentioned in the SwagArch review was called FSearch. You can find out more about the software at fsearch.org
23 • Swagarch, unity, debian live, (by RICK on 2017-08-07 19:21:18 GMT from United States)
Swagarch - welp, this seem's like a waste of resources to me...
Debian live - kinda sucks but would you really miss it? If you want a live debian-esque environment there's always ubuntu...I only use debian for servers anyway
Unity 7 - I say let it die. An idea or a feature can live on and perhaps it is a great idea to keep working on something like the HUD (perhaps making it something universal that can be added to any DE with relative ease), but we don't have to keep a whole DE going just for the sake of it "staying alive". Ideas, features, concepts can live on. A DE can die for all I care.
24 • Unity - Never liked it. Never used it. (by VT on 2017-08-07 19:36:02 GMT from United States)
Never liked the mobile/smartphone interface on the desktop --- didn't like it in Unity and don't like it in Gnome. Whether its Unity's bloated dash or Gnome's mobile inspired activities window, it's just hopelessly inefficient on a desktop. I'm not sad to see Unity go, but it's a shame they had to trade Unity for the marginally extensible, resource hungry mess that is Gnome --- the very desktop they rejected.
25 • @24 (by OstroL on 2017-08-07 20:58:07 GMT from Poland)
"Unity - Never liked it. Never used it."
and then the guy goes on to say,
"Whether its Unity's bloated dash or Gnome's mobile inspired activities window, it's just hopelessly inefficient on a desktop."
Very exact thoughts of a guy, who had NEVER used it.
26 • Red Hat and btrfs (by Simon on 2017-08-07 23:03:37 GMT from New Zealand)
Interesting that Red Hat's announcement says "FedFS has been deprecated because..." whereas its dropping Btrfs is merely announced, with no "because" to explain it.
27 • Debian Live (by MoreGee on 2017-08-08 03:13:58 GMT from United States)
I am really getting tired of forced upgraded into non booting mess.
Be it Debian or their children. All of the installers think they know better and mess up a multi boot system or create their own in compatible file system that can not share files with each other on the same box. Debian took it to a new low by letting me bypass the boot loader on install and yet messed up the boot loader. I then fixed the boot loader and every time it updates it messes up the boot loader again. I wouldn't dare try to dual boot this with windows 10. I also think it does not like IDE hard drives very much, the installer takes forever. BTW as someone else has mentioned, wifi is horribly messed up on the install programs, and will try and use it even if you want to install from the DVD. For starters the DVD should have every network driver from the dawn of time if it really has to have it. I couldn't even get a Raspberry Pi USB wifi plug to work with the installer to use to get past the first screen.
28 • Collaboration for Freedom (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-08-08 03:36:36 GMT from United States)
@13 "On the Manaro...RC community edition...gone on its own..."
There's much collab among systemdfree Arch/Manjaro devs, not bickering. Manjaro has always loved its OpenRC folks. The Artix announcement should have been phrased as a birth, not a funeral or divorce. It had a needless negative tone.
The plans I read include support for various inits in the long run, s6 and runit plus OpenRC. Artix Linux can go 100% systemdfree without following Manjaro's roadmap. So between ArchBang, Obarun, and Artix, the systemdfree folks across Archlandia can focus on systemdfreedom. I expect the pace to pick up as collaboration gathers momentum. Now may be a good time for interested devs to join.
29 • @28 Collaboration for Freedom (by mandog on 2017-08-08 03:48:49 GMT from Peru)
For once we totally agree,
Artix is doing what needs to be done to get viable alternative to Systemd.
Unfortunately that could never happen under Manjaro I said this a long time ago but was shot down in flames.
I run Artix at the moment it has a few teething problems and is based on arch this will gradually change as the Artix repros populate arch core is already gone.
Good times ahead
30 • Unity (by TheTKS on 2017-08-08 03:53:37 GMT from Canada)
First reaction to Unity was "meh", but I'm more interested in the packages than in the DE, as long as the OS just works (at least mostly) and the DE or WM is reliable and easy to use (good looking is a bonus.)
Unity grew on me enough in a week to say that it works for me, so I'm not strongly in the "kill it" camp, but other DE's appeal to me more and a slight majority seem to want something that's not Unity, so I voted kill. If enough people want to keep it going outside of Ubuntu, they can.
I'm most comfortable with Xfce (Xubuntu) and JWM (Puppy), but I'm test driving KDE and Pantheon to see if I can convince any of the visually-oriented artistic types in the family (whose computers I buy, set up and maintain) to move to or add Linux.
Basic user - email, spreadsheet, word processor, web browser cover most of what I do, but starting into CAD and graphics/animation packages, maybe will start into programming. Pretty new GNU/Linux user (Jan this year.)
31 • Btr or Naught (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-08-08 04:33:10 GMT from United States)
@26 Red Hat's phrase "Technology Preview" refers to unsupported pre-release demo software which may never reach their standard for "enterprise viability". Bug reports for such software may be stored temporarily in case the software attains supportable release.
32 • debian (by vic on 2017-08-08 05:20:02 GMT from Canada)
I went through hell also trying to get the debian installer to work, was pleasantly surprised that I could install mate (or any desktop environment) from the installer. I forget what eventually worked but at first the installer would just freeze on the second screen or something.
33 • Debian live (by denk_mal on 2017-08-08 06:40:13 GMT from Germany)
If you sit back and think of the goal for such a live distro then you maybe came to the same point as I.
- use Ubuntu for finding out the experance of Linux/Debian
- use Knoppix or some other specialized Distros for reparing and other maintaining things that need a stopped system.
- use the standard installer cd/dvd for installing.
IMHO there is no need for a debian live CD/DVD.
34 • Debian Live DVD (by Torsten on 2017-08-08 06:52:52 GMT from Germany)
Well, it's really better to install Debian 9.0 (Stretch) from Debian's netinstall. At least, this worked for me.
On the other hand, I really cannot understand why Debian's maintainers didn't tested their Live images BEFORE they released them. This really is embarrassing, I think. Such things shouldn't happen.
35 • Unity will survive. (by Garon on 2017-08-08 12:48:26 GMT from United States)
A lot of comments about Unity. Some based on fact and some based on just an opinion, some informed and some uninformed. When Unity came out on Ubuntu I had a hard time with it for a couple of days. When a person puts a little effort into something they can usually find success. That's how it was with me. I think it's funny when people diss Unity and haven't tried it or spent much time with it. Unity is customizable very much. People who say that it wasn't was very wrong. After you used Unity for a short time and was serious about it you would learn that it was very efficient. Unity will not die. It will live on in other distros whether as the default desktop or as an addon. Whole or in parts. There were certain aspects of Unity I wish were done different and maybe that could happen now. I voted to let Unity continue whether I use it or not. That's the way it should be.
36 • Btrfs in RedHat? Not invented here ... (by curious on 2017-08-08 13:00:42 GMT from Germany)
That was to be expected. RedHat will always prefer to support technologies developed by themselves, even if they are inferior. As to filesystems, they obviously prefer Ext4.
XFS support (actually the default now iirc) ONLY came about because some of their enterprise customers demanded it. And that will be the only realistic scenario for Btrfs - enterprise customers would have to demand it. This might actually happen someday, if one considers all the advanced features that make a lot of sense in an enterprise/server environment.
Of course, many other distributions support the whole range of filesystems that linux can potentially support, and leave the choice to the end user / admin - as it should be.
37 • Unity / Debian 9 (by Winchester on 2017-08-08 13:41:22 GMT from United States)
I am not a huge fan of Unity but,I used it with the Oz Unity "Star Sapphire" 14.04 LTS distribution. I would say that it is slightly more usable than Gnome 3 for my purposes. If the machine it is deployed on is strong enough to handle it. The zeitgeist packages eat up system resources. I am not a big Gnome 3 user either although I do like having the "Nautilus" file manager and "File Roller" on at least one partition.
"Oz Unity Star Sapphire" has been discontinued but,the 14.04 LTS base is still supported with updates for another year and a half plus. Not much different than its parent but,slightly more visually appealing if you like this family of distributions. I don't use it much but,once every so often,I do.
As far as Debian 9 goes,there is plenty of time for them to sort things out. Debian 8 is still supported with updates for 2 and a half more years. One could just continue with Debian 8 while waiting to see if Debian 9 gets ironed out over the next 30 months. Derivatives are also an option.
38 • Technology previews (by Microlinux on 2017-08-08 14:16:57 GMT from Austria)
In my brain, the term "technology preview" is wired somewhere next to "wisdom tooth extraction" or "waiting line at the embassy". It's OK to include these in Fedora or similar bleeding edge distributions. But as a sysadmin, I only want to use reliable components. Understand: those that can be used even by folks with blood pressure issues. Hence my preference for RHEL/CentOS, where everything JustWorks(tm).
39 • @ 35 Unity will survive. (by lenn on 2017-08-08 14:19:13 GMT from Canada)
I think it will. There is no pressure on the devs at Cannonical to keep developing it. All the pressure is with the "gnome devs" there now to get a working distro out by the release day of 17.10 Artful. Like the guy at Ubuntu forums, who is testing Unity on Ubuntu 17.10 and without the Gnome shell, I also did the same thing after reading what he did.
It is as though a normal Ubuntu release with Unity as default. Few days ago, there were even few Unity only upgrades. If upgrades are coming, someone is working on it. When Unity works well, even without upgrades means that Unity is good. I am going to keep on testing it in day to day work.
I have a feeling that Unity would come alive later. The people, who say "let it die" are those, who had never used it, and those simply like to hate something. In the Linux world, such haters shouldn't be. This is a community world.
40 • Artix or Dead-Endix ? (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-08 18:49:48 GMT from France)
I'm not that optimistic about artix future, for two main reasons.
1) Since october 2012 when Archlinux switched to systemd, arch-based + other inits distribution were not very lucky. Besides Obarun S6 and Archbang, which one survived ?
2) If I want binary packages + OpenRC in a rolling release model = Calculate. For runit ? I'll choose void. If I want s6, I'll choose Obarun.
And some other little things :
1) how many people working on it?
2) how many users?
3) why choosing lxqt by default? Lxde is far more complete for a daily computing work.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see what is the user market for Artix, besides die-hard "pro-init choice" people. Where pro-init means anything but not systemd.
41 • Unity fork hardly noteworthy (by david esktorp on 2017-08-08 18:53:04 GMT from United States)
I fail to see the significance of such a small group of people trying to keep Unity going. It was reported upon and relatively nothing has happened since then-- why dredge it up? Yunit? Cmon gtfo here with this stuff guys. How about Junkit? At this point, there are probably more people using i3 than Unity. How much longer are we going to be expected to care about that whole mess anyway? Is it noteworthy / newsworthy simply because it was jettisoned from Ubuntu's stinking maw? Can't we just toss it in the growing pile of failures called Unity and move on? How many half-assed, abandoned desktop environments do we need?
Linux: Land of the Divided and Conquered
42 • @29 (by Justin on 2017-08-08 19:11:34 GMT from United States)
I'm still not clear on what Artix is when it comes to packaging. Is it going to be like Arch and stay up to date, or will it be like Manjaro and hold stuff back? I like the consolidation if it will mean a better overall system (I was fine with arch-openrc, so I'm having trouble seeing how this is better, but it's still early). Being able to use s6, runit, etc., would be a welcome change. I read some of the Manjaro exchange, and I like the idea of being able to select the one I want. That's how systemd should have been in Debian and elsewhere. I also want to see projects like Archbang continue, so combining with arch-openrc and Manjaro, if it does that, then that's a good thing.
43 • Artix Is Not Ready (by Jay on 2017-08-08 19:51:07 GMT from United States)
I downloaded the base image. It booted to a large bootloader screen (not VGA resolution but something hi-res that makes Virtualbox jump to a different monitor). I picked the "CD" option (not sure what the heck this is versus USB nor why I need to tell the boot media what it is) and booted to the command line. From there... nothing. I couldn't find a way to start an installer. I went back to the boot menu (the place where I couldn't figure out why I had to tell it if I was on a CD or USB) and selected something that sounded like it might be install. That caused the VM to hang. Okay, scrap that, and let's move on.
Next, I tried the LXQT version. I took the same steps and got to a LXQT desktop. Yay! I went to the menu and selected "Calamares" (not probably obvious to a new user, but hey, a shortcut at the top could fix that). Then I went through the install and took the defaults. I need to maximize the window because it was large than the VM screen resolution (640x480), and I couldn't see buttons on the partition screen (other distros have this problem without virtualbox-guest-utils). After quite a long wait at 24% (probably pacman downloads), the installation completed. What did I get? Not an LXQT desktop! Not even a tty login! First, booting stopped on a GRUB menu with a goofy set of options (whatever happened to "Boot Artix" KISS). My timezone and keyboard layout are separate boot options? Second, just hitting enter to "boot" whatever was selected by default (I think it was the keyboard) gave me about 20 messages that said "error: unknown filesystem." Hitting enter just continued to print those messages (they look like they are being piped to more). If I went far enough, I could get to another GRUB boot menu with "Cancel (us)" as the only option. Hitting enter did nothing after this point. Sort of ironic... yeah, I'll cancel you for now.
I'm sure this stuff will be sorted out in the months ahead, but in the meantime, wtf? I guess the silver lining is that their live installation is already on par with well established distros like Debian 9... ;)
Seriously, though, I'm a huge fan of non-systemd distros and Arch ones at that, but perhaps it would have been better to slowly move forward and release something a bit more polished. This experience is what the Arch haters talk about when they mean Arch breaks too often... except in this case, it's not Arch so much as it is Artix. It's too bad because their waiting list announcement is getting them some press, but it's going to make their adoption harder long-term with starts like this.
44 • @42 and @43 : artix is far from being ready (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-08 20:32:57 GMT from France)
Answering to both comments here.
Their repository policy? If someone can tell me, I'll be happy to understand.
For now, core repository is replaced by 3 smaller repositories, extra and community from archlinux are still used. Well, that is what you can guess looking at /etc/pacman.conf file.
A true init choice not the "kill systemd with fire" is a great idea, in theory. The only distribution providing this is Gentoo, even if OpenRC is the only really supported choice ;)
Manjaro OpenRC was the only really working project using an arch-related base and OpenRC. I also hope ArchBang won't "commit suicide" and stay apart from this project. The same for Obarun s6.
Calamares on Artix? The horrible hybrid installer tool which makes you wait an hour to grab packages from the internet. Good old calamares gives you a working installation in less than 15 minutes.
I looked at base image : no script or tools to launch installation for now.
Artix is a god send gift for archlinux haters. To me, an archlinux user since early 2009, this project is in alpha state to be gentle for now. I mean in the early august 2017.
45 • debian 9 (by jason d on 2017-08-09 00:45:09 GMT from Australia)
Been using Debian for years and absolutely love it...but unfortunately stretch is completely broken, its a total mess. I am so devastated it just locks up my machine randomly and i have to hard power off. I have 2 desktop machines both dell optiplex which have been running on debian 8 with no problems. Debian used to be super stable but now its just released full of bugs, why o why.
46 • @44@42@43artix is far from being ready (by mandog on 2017-08-09 01:12:43 GMT from Peru)
Actualy its is ready for a metal install
I'm running it now with cinnamon all the openrc packages come from Gentoo then repackaged, all packages in extra, community, are on par with arch, at the moment only core is not needed so core is replaced, in the future all packages will be repacked so that their will be no compatibility issues i'm led to believe.
The long term aim is for a serious alternative to systemd on Arch based systems so platforms for S6, Runit, are being put in place if all devs work together then this will be a reality.
At this time it is testing and many changes on a daily basis are being made.
For me its in a better state than Manjaro openrc now its the same developers just moved on from the constraints of having to try and work with a reluctant Systemd distro so now the chains are off they can hone Artix to Artoo and his goals that could never happen with Manjaro as a side project.
47 • stretchy stretch (by stretchy on 2017-08-09 02:00:15 GMT from Canada)
stretch... stretch.., and stretch.
Where as developers can stretch it in all possible directions to tear it apart into broken pieces offering Apple and MS easy-joyful-rides just for FREE with torn pockets and without a penny in the wallet.
48 • Unity (by Scuttlebuck on 2017-08-09 04:18:09 GMT from Nicaragua)
I hope Unity survives and someone makes something out of it, the more Options we can have in Linux the better,
I tried it on something but it really wasnt for me....but then the only DE i have use in quite some time is XFCE....and only that because my GFs anger at trying to get to grips with i3 or flux/ openbox, ....I used to like KDE or Gnome many years back but they loused themselves up, I can adapt to use any of the DEs if i really wanted to many i just dont see the reason for much of the gumph in them...
I tried Artoos OpenRC Manjaro and was impressed and thats when he first started it ..have yet to think about artix yet,
I rarely try Debian though thats more than Ubuntu which i havent tried since the horrid Brown themed thing came out in 2005 ish....Though I like Antix and Knoppix,
After reading all the negative comments I thought this is BS as Debian has always been very good and stable, even on testing .....so I tried to install it on 3 different machines all with failures by chance i got it installed on one only to suffer a complete freeze up, then it wouldnt install again.....Shame that a great Distro with its History is turning out stuff like this ....maybe payback for some unwanted technology it forced on us who knows
49 • @46 : Artix is in alpha stage... @48 : hardware issues ? (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-09 06:34:37 GMT from France)
And its site is not ready. Also, do you think that people behind Obarun S6 or ArchBang will kill their "old" projects?
I don't think so.
"I'm running it now with cinnamon all the openrc packages come from Gentoo then repackaged, all packages in extra, community, are on par with arch, at the moment only core is not needed so core is replaced, in the future all packages will be repacked so that their will be no compatibility issues i'm led to believe."
Only time will tell if it will work. I said before, Arch switched to systemd back in october 2012, and the only working projects still alive and not in alpha state are both Obarun and ArchBang.
"For me its in a better state than Manjaro openrc now its the same developers just moved on from the constraints of having to try and work with a reluctant Systemd distro so now the chains are off they can hone Artix to Artoo and his goals that could never happen with Manjaro as a side project."
I do a migration from Manjaro OpenRC to Artix in video. When artix-keyring was installed, there were only 4 gpg keys grabbed and actived. So, there is only four developers behind this project.
I'm not really optimistic about this project. Too small team = dead project within a year.
I'm not an ideologist, just someone running linux as my only daily OS since 2006, and which have known and used : sysVinit, upstart and now systemd. I also used some times OpenRC.
All of these are working. I don't care which one is running my OS. I just care about getting services run, like 99,5% of linux users.
Have a good day.
@48 : you're talking about freezes. What is your hardware? Some distributions are not working correctly with some computers.
50 • Debian (by rooster12 on 2017-08-09 10:11:44 GMT from United States)
Think it would behoove Debian greatly to finally admit that systemd has strangled what was once a great distribution, a real power house like Wheezy. That is all gone now, Stretch is something that is beyond most experienced users or derivative developers skills and experience.
Perhaps the folks at Debian should eat crow and admit they made a mistake going with systemd, something is quite wrong and it wasn't a mess before.
Simply no longer usable!
51 • @ 48 Unity (by OstroL on 2017-08-09 12:33:56 GMT from Poland)
"I hope Unity survives and someone makes something out of it, the more Options we can have in Linux the better, I tried it on something but it really wasnt for me..."
"...Ubuntu which i havent tried since the horrid Brown themed thing came out in 2005 ish..."
Just can't imagine where you "tried" Unity as you've not used Ubuntu since 2005.
52 • Cleaning up Arch with Artix (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-08-09 12:42:00 GMT from United States)
@40 @44 @49 Collaboration is happening as you post; thank you for vigorously bringing attention thereto.
Perhaps you would also like to help test the latest ArchBang beta?
53 • @49 Artix is in alpha stage (by mandog on 2017-08-09 16:58:39 GMT from Peru)
Really Artoo is worth 4 on his own did more work for Manjaro apart from Openrc the net installer was one of his projects. He is a fixer most things reported to him are fixed in 24 hrs if possible.
Slackware. Mint. 2 big hiters. are basically one man bands so where do you get the pesemisam from.
Then choose to use it beats me.
They have stated they need testers, wellcome bug reports etc but not here that is no good. Its not alpha its beta and the lxqt and cinnamon versions are stable well enough for me to work on.
54 • Unity (by Massimiliano on 2017-08-09 17:50:32 GMT from Italy)
AHAHHAHAHA ... Unity bye bye...
I used Unity only few times when I tryed Ubuntu. It failed because Canonical decided to not hear user reviews. Mir and Unity are only a lost work and time. They coulded be help the Wayland development.
55 • Debian (by Bill Donnelly on 2017-08-09 22:19:12 GMT from Canada)
In response to 50, I have been using Debian 7, 8 & 9. I have found that all of these distributions have slowly improved over time and all have been rock stable. In my experience with Debian 9, it has proven to be a little more polished than Debian 8 and has more features like improved firewall "gufw" and pulse audio panel control and newer version of Virtualbox. I am presently running Deb 8, 9 & 10 on my 2 year old desktop computer and very happy with all of these distros. Also running Antergos and OpenSUSE Leap with good results too. However Debian live iso's are still a problem. Hopefully that will improve over the next few months.
56 • @52 about artix and Arch ideological cleanup (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-09 22:51:25 GMT from France)
Well, to stay gentle : I don't care a dog poo about these projects. If I want to use OpenRC, I'll switch to Gentoo or Funtoo.
If I want to use runit, I'll switch to Void Linux. If I want to use sysVinit, I'll switch to Slackware.
I prefer older and more polished distribution. Have a good day.
57 • Unity (by scuttlebuck on 2017-08-10 03:57:10 GMT from Nicaragua)
oh damn you caught me out as a Liar !!!!!
oh no I remember i tried it out on my Gentoo......https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Unity
I believe also that it's available on Fedora and open suse... oh and i think it may have been available to install on Arch for 2 yrs....actually it may have been Arch i tried it on.....no matters
58 • Unity (by Andy Figueroa on 2017-08-10 04:15:14 GMT from United States)
It was really gratifying to see that only 18% voted that Unity should be kept alive.
59 • "The Unity 7 desktop environment" (by eco2geek on 2017-08-10 06:35:56 GMT from United States)
I'm sorry to see Unity go away. Not because I liked its UI design all that much, but it was another alternative offered to Linux users. (And they did put a lot of time and effort into making it look good and making it stable.)
I would have liked to see Unity continually developed by Canonical, into version 8 and so on, not just left to die at version 7.
I'm trying out a daily build of Ubuntu 17.10, which (as Jesse said) uses the gnome desktop. Personally I think that gnome's UI design just sucks rocks, although it appears that Ubuntu has added a whole lot of gnome shell extensions to their 17.10 repository to make the switch easier. There's no need to use the "activities overview" or the application picker if you don't want to.
Unfortunately, since it's gnome, you do have to deal with a lot more so-called client side decorations and a lot fewer menus.
It's pretty stable (no surprise, since it's gnome 3.24). The main thing that stands out is that Ubuntu hasn't yet finished working out the cosmetic differences between Ubuntu's traditional brown and orange theme and gnome's gray and blue theme. Right now they're clashing with one another.
60 • @58 (by lenn on 2017-08-10 14:59:07 GMT from Canada)
> It was really gratifying to see that only 18% voted that Unity should be kept alive.<
This shows how human one can be. One is gratified that someone, something might die. Lovely!
61 • Debian (by menski on 2017-08-10 16:32:40 GMT from United States)
What happened with the Debian developers? They spend years and years working on a new system and years making sure everything works before the final release, yet they screw up. The cd iso does not work and in the full dvd the root password will not work. Still no update notifier after all these years. It would seem important to be notified of security updates.
62 • @46 (by Jay on 2017-08-10 19:35:44 GMT from United States)
I'm going to give Artix time to settle. The fact that I couldn't install it in a VM was just bad. I've done probably 20+ arch-openrc installs in the past 6 months with no problems, so I know it's possible. Regarding bugs and testers, I'm not really sure what to report other than it seems to work for you but didn't work for me. For me, it sucks that arch-openrc just stopped and everything became Artix. I would have liked some transition time. Right now I'm afraid to try a metal install or a metal upgrade to my working install because I don't want it to stop working. I'm not sure where you got the Cinnamon ISO from. When I looked, there was only base and lxqt. But, as you say, things are changing quickly, so perhaps I caught things at a bad time.
Unlike @56, I do care about this project and hope it is successful. I also hope it goes faster than Devuan took. Regarding your comments in @53, the point about Mint is well-taken. You don't need an army of people--a small team of good people can do good work. I like seeing Artoo (Manjaro OpenRC), Chris (arch-openrc), MrGreen (Archbang), you and others joining up to make something better than their individual projects. That's the power of Linux.
I also hope you guys fall more on the Arch side of things rather than the Manjaro way. The held-back updates really bugs me. Arch is very good at keeping things up-to-date with a legion of maintainers. I hope you'll have an automated build system that can keep up with them. Good luck!
63 • Debian 9 (by Debbie on 2017-08-10 19:38:18 GMT from United States)
What hardware are people running that are having problems? My friend started with 7, upgraded to 8, then upgraded to 9. He hasn't told me of any problems, but his hardware is at least 10 years old at this point. Maybe that makes a difference.
64 • @62 : I prefer older and well maintained projects. (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-11 08:31:08 GMT from France)
Just a small reply to your point :
"Unlike @56, I do care about this project and hope it is successful. I also hope it goes faster than Devuan took. Regarding your comments in @53, the point about Mint is well-taken. You don't need an army of people--a small team of good people can do good work. I like seeing Artoo (Manjaro OpenRC), Chris (arch-openrc), MrGreen (Archbang), you and others joining up to make something better than their individual projects. That's the power of Linux."
There are already successful projects in this domain. Why reinvent the wheel? Why wasting resources in this project?
Because you can? Because fork is life? :D
Well, the more I see """linux world""", the more I think BSD world is the way to go sometimes. In order to get working and more reliable softwares... It is sad for me to say that, after 11 years using only linux distributions as my daily OS.
Have a good day.
65 • Das Order (by Kragle on 2017-08-11 15:25:37 GMT from United States)
"There are already successful projects in this domain." Details, evidence? Your definition of "successful"?
"Why reinvent the wheel? Why wasting resources…" Why so much denigration?
What's your preferred alternative? What are your vested interests?
After the elephants stomped the room, survivors needed time to shake off their shock, clear their minds, and begin anew.
Small fork projects form, collaborate where applicable, and hopefully grow.
Life persists, though individuals may not.
What's the best way to get reliably-working software?
66 • @64 (by Jay on 2017-08-11 16:49:48 GMT from United States)
Choice is Linux's greatest strength and greatest weakness. People can make good choices, bad choices, and waste their time on both. I like that there exists a system where you and I can have different preferences yet still get what we need (and want most of the time). I also agree with your general frustrations as I have them too. I'd definitely encourage people that want to get involved to join existing like-minded projects. At the same time, if no like-minded projects exist, it's nice that people can start them.
67 • Salvaging some parts of Unity (by M.Z. on 2017-08-11 22:18:37 GMT from United States)
@24 & @25
"...Very exact thoughts of a guy, who had NEVER used it."
I have to say, I've only dabbled lightly in either Gnome or Unity over the years, but I concur that they could both easily be a bad experience for those of us who like normal desktop environments. Most users want something that they can transition into very easily from Windows with a minimal learning curve & perhaps then begin to find additional power user feature that add value. That was certainly where I come from & those typical users I've discussed desktops with tend to want the same, just without the extra features because "that's just making things more complicated...'' or something to that effect.
All that being said, & with apologies to those few who actually like Gnome, but Unity was a genuinely attractive alternative to Gnome 3. Both are fairly marginal compared to KDE, Cinnamon, or XFCE; however, Unity was a fair bit better than Gnome for most potential coverts. The big downsides were the still odd DE design & the former privacy problems. On the whole i think moving back to Gnome is still a big regression for average users wanting to pick up the default version of one of the biggest names in desktop Linux & just go.
The thing I think is fairly positive about all this is the possibility of using Mir for Wayland support. It would be a bit ironic, but salvaging some of those Unity parts like Mir to bring greater compatibility with more mainstream projects like Wayland is a great bit of added value to the community. I really don't want to see all those efforts go completely to waste, so reusing Mir this way, or any other Unity parts in a similar fashion, would be a great way to salvage something useful.
@51 & @57
Indeed, there are at least 7 distros that the DW search page list as having Unity as a DE. I wanted to check how widely used the top DEs are by various projects using http://distrowatch.com/search.php & found the following:
Unity - 7 distros
Cinnamon - 22
Mate - 52
Gnome - 71 (not sure why the list includes Mint)
KDE/KDE Plasma - 75
XFCE - 89 distros
So, while Cinnamon was a relatively small project supported mainly by the community driven Mint distro, it still managed to spread to about 3x as many distros as the Unity DE. Anyway, I thought the numbers were an interesting indication of the demand for support for various DEs across distros. I do think Gnome is so wide spread due mostly to sheer institutional momentum, (i.e. we've always had it, why change?); however, the numbers are interesting regardless of possible explanations. The low uptake for Unity probably indicates that the project wasn't receiving much support outside Canonical, though there could well be enough for the project to continue independently.
68 • @67 (by OstroL on 2017-08-12 07:47:14 GMT from Poland)
"So, while Cinnamon was a relatively small project supported mainly by the community driven Mint distro..."
It still is, for it is only a desktop environment, while Debian and Ubuntu is a much larger projects. Mint being community driven is I'm not very sure. It may still be a one man project.
69 • Installing Debian 9.0 (by Jörg on 2017-08-12 08:00:55 GMT from Germany)
Well, @34 is absolutely right! You all should install Debian 9.0 from "Netinstall". It really works so much better, than Debian's Live images!
70 • @61, 69 etc, Debian (by Damski on 2017-08-12 08:19:57 GMT from United States)
Maybe you should look in here, http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20170619 and go to the bottom to find AIMS Desktop, which is a Debian 9 distro. It was released simultaneously with Debian 9 and It really works.
71 • @65 and @66 : is 11 years being a full time linux user an answer ? :) (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-08-12 08:27:22 GMT from France)
I can tell you that : just open a dictionary and look for definitions.
In France - I'm a frog eater ;) - we use to say a project that is more than 5 years old is really successful. So I do prefer a 5 years old project than a new one that can die within a year.
I'm just somebody who have seen a lot of great distributions that are pushing up daisies. Like ApricityOS, PearOS to list the two first names that came to my mind.
My vested interests? Working and reliable software for a daily use. Nothing less, nothing more.
The best way to do this? Stop to fork compulsively and do it for good reasons, not for ideological ones.
@66 : "I also agree with your general frustrations as I have them too. I'd definitely encourage people that want to get involved to join existing like-minded projects."
Problem is forking too easily, compulsively. How many distributions are only : ubuntu + wallpapers + another browser ?
I know, it is kinda cartoonish, but is that completely wrong? :)
72 • Installing Debian (by debianxfce on 2017-08-12 16:50:51 GMT from Finland)
Modern os is a rolling release so install Debian testing Xfce. Use the following installer and after installing change the buster repository to testing. Then you have a rolling release os forever. For latest Mesa drivers, use Oibaf ppa yakkety version.
73 • Debian 9.0 (by fumblefingers on 2017-08-12 19:04:47 GMT from United States)
@34 & @69
Agree with you: Debian 9.0 netinstall works without problems - at least for a base command line system at the console including disk encryption. After that installing the xorg, xterm and icewm packages will give you a basic window display that can be started from the console with the command startx. Icewm seems to integate well with Debian, and both the xorg and icewm packages come automatically configured for startx.
74 • DE projects (by M.Z. on 2017-08-13 05:45:43 GMT from United States)
"...Mint being community driven ... It may still be a one man project."
Actually that's not true of either Mint or the Cinnamon DE. There are at least half a dozen people that have made hundreds of commits to the Cinnamon project & there are over 100 others that have also made contributions. Oddly enough Clem is actually listed as second on number of commits, though you'd have to know a lot more than me to know what the numbers listed on github actually mean. See here:
At any rate it still seems odd that an organization with the resources of Canonical put a DE out there that had so much less uptake than the Cinnamon DE did among distros. There is a lot that could potentially be read into that. Canonical have certainly produced a large amount of software that is widely used, but I wonder what people on the inside the organization think of the apparent lack of uptake of their main DE prior to it's demise.
75 • @74 (by OstroL on 2017-08-13 08:20:14 GMT from Poland)
>> "At any rate it still seems odd that an organization with the resources of Canonical put a DE out there that had so much less uptake than the Cinnamon DE did among distros."
Because, we are sort of old fashioned, we like the bottom panel and a searchable menu at the left bottom edge--even Microsoft found that out after trying to push Win 8.1 and finally cam back to the more original Start Menu in Win 10. But, there are people, who like newer ideas and got used to Unity or Gnome 3.
76 • Better Options (by Better Options on 2017-08-13 14:13:58 GMT from Canada)
I am absolutely NOT married to Debian at all,
But to "the absolute freedom", I do.
Therefore, there exists life even without Debian,
and it won't be dull!
Most of developers might have heard of "tao of programming",
But, there exist absolute pure honey stream called "Zen of Programming".
There are always better options for better replacements.
Number of Comments: 76
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