 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 719, 3 July 2017 |
Welcome to this year's 27th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Last week we talked about Debian, a stable, highly versatile, conservative distribution which is usually updated infrequently. This week we begin with a review of a distribution which is Debian's opposite in many ways: Manjaro Linux. The Manjaro project builds a rolling release, desktop-oriented distribution that ships with multimedia support and many convenient utilities. Read our Feature Story to learn more about the Manjaro project. In our News section we cover a number of new developments, including Fedora's Atomic Host edition getting a new life cycle and Qubes OS experimenting with a configuration feature called Admin API. Plus we share a few new developments coming out of the Ubuntu MATE project. In our Questions and Answers column we explore whether an ISO file can be linked to a specific user. Plus we share the distribution releases of the past week and provide a list of torrents we are seeding. In our Opinion Poll we ask if our readers are interested in seeing more information about single purpose, single platform distributions and we hope you will share your thoughts with us. Finally, we welcome the Photon OS distribution to our database. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 "Xfce"
- News: Fedora's Atomic Host gets new life cycle, Ubuntu MATE working on new features, Qubes unveils Admin API
- Questions and answers: Linking an ISO file to a specific user
- Released last week: Mint 18.2, Manjaro 17.0.2, Linuxfx 8.0
- Torrent corner: 4MLinux, Calculate, Clonezilla, Linuxfx, Manjaro, Mint, Netrunner, PClinuxOS, Q4OS, RancherOS, Sabayon, SwagArch, Thinstation
- Opinion poll: Single purpose, single platform distributions
- New additions: Photon OS
- New distributions: Pop!_OS, Redcore Linux
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (108MB) and MP3 (83MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 "Xfce"
Manjaro Linux is an Arch Linux-based desktop distribution. Like its parent, Manjaro features a rolling release approach to software updates, providing its users with cutting edge applications. Manjaro is currently available in 32-bit and 64-bit builds and there are several desktop editions from which to choose. New Manjaro users can download the project's Xfce, KDE or GNOME editions as well as a wide variety of community editions. Most of these editions feature the systemd init software, but a handful of the community editions feature the OpenRC init technology, though it can take a little digging to find the OpenRC editions among the other installation files.
For the sake of my experience, I decided to download Manjaro's Xfce edition for 64-bit computers. The download for this edition was 1.5GB in size and booting from the media presents us with the Xfce 4.12 desktop environment. Xfce is presented to us with the application menu, task switcher and system tray placed at the bottom of the screen. Icons on the desktop are available to open the Thunar file manager, a user manual, the HexChat IRC client and the project's system installer. The user manual is a 134 page PDF document that explains how to obtain a copy of Manjaro, install it, change settings and perform some common tasks. The HexChat application will, by default, open a connection to the Manjaro support channel so we can get help. Shortly after the Xfce desktop loads a welcome window appears. This welcome window supplies us with buttons we can click in order to get access to support, documentation and release notes.
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 -- The Xfce application menu
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Installing
Manjaro uses the cross-distro Calamares system installer. The installer begins by asking us to select our preferred language from a list. We are then walked through selecting our time zone from a map of the world, confirming the keyboard's layout and partitioning the hard drive. Calamares has a fast and simple built-in partition manager that supports working with ext2/3/4, Btrfs, XFS, JFS, f2fs and Reiser file systems as well as LVM volumes. For my experiment with the distribution I decided to use the ext4 file system for my partitions. The Calamares installer then asks us to select a username and password for ourselves and copies the distribution's packages to our hard drive.
The fresh, new copy of Manjaro boots to a graphical login screen where we can sign into our user account. Signing into my account launched the Xfce desktop again and presented me once more with the welcome screen. A few seconds after signing in, a green icon appeared in my system tray which was accompanied by a small notification window that told me there were software updates available. Clicking on the green icon opened a graphical update manager which displayed a list of available package upgrades along with their total size. We can click a box next to each update to enable or disable it. During my trial I performed two batches of updates, the first included 19 updates totalling 146MB and the second featured 25 updates totalling 111MB. Both groups of updates installed without any problems.
Software management
Manjaro features a graphical package manager called Pamac. The Pamac application displays a simple list of available applications in a pane on the right side of the window. On the left side we can provide search terms or category filters to narrow down the list of packages shown to us. Right-clicking on a package gives us the option of seeing more details about the selected software. We can click a box next to a package to mark it for installation or removal.
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 -- The Pamac software manager
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People who prefer to use the command line can use the pacman software manager from a terminal. Both Pamac and pacman work very quickly. I find pacman's syntax to be relatively short and cryptic when compared against other package managers, but it is fast and worked well for me.
Manjaro is based on Arch Linux and can make use of the Arch User Repository (AUR) of contributed software. However, Manjaro draws binary software packages from the project's own repository servers.
There is one more software management utility built into Manjaro: the kernel manager. When new versions of the Linux kernel become available in Manjaro's repositories, a notification will be displayed on the desktop. The user then has the option of opening the kernel manager (which is also available through the settings panel). The kernel manager lists the available kernel versions and we can click a button to install new kernels or remove old ones. For the most part, Manjaro provides long term support (LTS) kernels, but there are some newer, development kernels present too. I took the opportunity to install a newer kernel during my trial and found it worked well. Though the kernel was bumped up a version, the new kernel worked (as far as I could tell) exactly the same as the default kernel.
Settings
As I mentioned previously, the kernel manager utility can be found in a second settings panel and that is one of the few odd design choices I ran into while I was using Manjaro. The distribution features a settings panel which is pretty standard for distributions running the Xfce or MATE desktop environments. From the settings panel we can adjust the window manager settings, change the look of the desktop, configure the firewall and change notification settings. One of the modules in the settings pane is called the Manjaro Settings Manager which opens a second control panel. This second panel provides us with utilities for working with user accounts, installing language packs, changing the keyboard's layout and installing new kernels.
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 -- The settings panel and kernel manager
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This approach to putting a second settings panel inside the first is a bit unusual. To make matters worse, searching the first settings panel for a keyword (like "users") does not indicate the Manjaro Settings Manager contains the module we want to access - the user needs to find the hidden settings through exploration. Another quirk of the settings panel is there is some overlap in functionality and nomenclature. For example, there is a Notification Settings module and a Manjaro Notifier, a Settings Manager and a Settings Editor. There are also two keyboard layout managers. Once again, the user is left to explore and discover the differences through trial and error.
It may seem I was frustrated by the Manjaro settings panels, but on the whole both worked well. Some trial and error aside, I found all the settings I wanted to adjust and found the individual modules easy to use. I especially appreciated how easy it was to disable notifications by enabling "do not disturb" mode and that there is a setting to prevent new windows from automatically stealing focus.
Applications
Manjaro ships with a fairly typical collection of desktop software. The distribution features the Firefox web browser (without Flash support), the Thunderbird e-mail application and LibreOffice. The distribution also includes the HexChat IRC client, the Pidgin messaging software and the Guayadeque music player. The VLC media player and Xfburn disc burner application are included. Manjaro ships with codecs which allow us to play most media files. I also found a calendar & appointment application and a dictionary. Manjaro provides users with a document viewer, the GNU Image Manipulation Program, an image viewer and a tool for renaming files. The distribution uses Network Manager to help us get on-line and features a sensors viewer so we can keep tabs on our hardware.
Digging deeper we can find Java installed for us and the GNU Compiler Collection (version 7.1). Manjaro's main editions run the systemd init software, though there are community editions that use OpenRC in place of systemd. The version of Manjaro I installed shipped with version 4.9 of the Linux kernel, but both 4.10 and 4.11 were available through the distribution's kernel manager utility.
For the most part Manjaro's applications worked for me and my experience was generally smooth. There were just two exceptions to this general rule. The first was that the Steam gaming portal, which is included by default, failed to launch. No error was displayed when trying to launch Steam. The other problem I ran into was, when I tried to open the Printer Manager utility, the Firefox web browser would launch and report it was unable to connect to the local service. This would seem to indicate the CUPS web-based service is not running by default. It is possible to work around this, but it would be nice if a local desktop application was present for setting up printers.
Something else I noticed while exploring Manjaro was several command line programs are aliased. For example, the copy (cp) command is aliased to cp -i to avoid overwriting files. The dh, free and more commands are also modified using aliases. These aliases are probably meant to make the commands easier for newcomers to use, but it meant the commands failed to work the way I expected them to when I first used them.
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 -- Listing default aliases
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Hardware
I tested Manjaro in two different environments, a physical desktop computer and a VirtualBox virtual machine. In both environments the distribution performed very well. The distribution booted quickly, was fast when launching applications and completing tasks. The Xfce desktop was very responsive and all of my hardware was automatically detected. When running in VirtualBox, the system automatically detected and integrated with the virtual machine, allowing me to make use of my host computer's full screen resolution. In either environment, Manjaro used approximately 275MB of memory when logged into Xfce.
Earlier I mentioned the default printer manager utility did not work. To work around this I downloaded the system-printer-settings utility which gave me a friendly, graphical tool for setting up printers. Manjaro was able to detect my HP printer and setting up the printer required just a few mouse clicks.
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2 -- Trying to set up a printer
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Conclusions
Sometimes after I write a review people will e-mail me and ask, in so many words, "Never mind the overview, why would I use this distribution over another one?" In Manjaro's case this is an easy question to answer as the distribution does a lot of things well. Manjaro is a rolling release, cutting edge distribution so the project consistently provides the latest and greatest open source software. Apart from the programs in the distribution's repositories, people running Manjaro can also make use of AUR (the large collection of software submitted by Arch Linux users). This provides Manjaro users with a huge collection of packages, most of them consistently kept up to date with upstream sources.
I found Manjaro's Xfce edition to be very fast and unusually light on memory. The distribution worked smoothly and worked well with both my physical hardware and my virtual environment. I also enjoyed Manjaro's habit of telling me when new software (particularly new versions of the Linux kernel) was available.
I fumbled a little with Manjaro's settings panel and finding some settings, but in the end I was pleased with the range of configuration I could achieve with the distribution. I especially like that Manjaro makes it easy to block notifications and keep windows from stealing focus. The distribution can be made to stay pleasantly out of the way.
In short, I think Manjaro is the ideal distribution for people who like the simple, cutting edge philosophy of Arch Linux, but who would like to set up the operating system with a couple of clicks and have settings adjustable through a friendly point-n-click interface. Manjaro has most of the same capabilities of Arch, but with a friendly wrapper which makes installing and working with software packages a quick, click-and-done process.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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Visitor supplied rating
Manjaro Linux has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.1/10 from 414 review(s).
Have you used Manjaro Linux? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Fedora's Atomic Host gets new life cycle, Ubuntu MATE working on new features, Qubes unveils Admin API
The Fedora distribution maintains several editions and one of the lesser talked about editions is Atomic Host. The Atomic Host edition is a lightweight platform for running containers. Due to Atomic Host's minimal and fast-moving nature, the Fedora team is changing the edition's life cycle to be different from the life cycles of Fedora's Workstation and Server editions. A post on Fedora Magazine explains: "The Fedora Atomic Working Group will then collapse Fedora Atomic into a single version. That release will track the latest stable Fedora branch. When a new stable version of Fedora is released, Fedora Atomic users will automatically shift to the new version when they install updates. Traditional OS upgrades can be disruptive and error-prone. Due to the image-based technologies that Atomic Hosts use for system components (rpm-ostree) and for applications (Linux containers), upgrading an Atomic Host between major releases is like installing updates within a single release. In both scenarios, the system updates are applied by running an rpm-ostree command and rebooting. The release provides rollback to the previous state available in case something goes wrong. Applications running in containers are unaffected by the host upgrade or update."
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When Canonical announced it was no longer developing the Unity 8 desktop environment, many people assumed they would also cease work on the Mir display software, an underlying component Unity 8 used. However, Mir is still being worked on and developed for certain Internet of Things (IoT) scenarios. Mir may also be useful for desktop environments such as MATE. Martin Wimpress, of the Ubuntu MATE distribution, has put forward the idea that Mir could be used as a Wayland compositor. "Implementing a Wayland compositor is a massive undertaking. Just look at the investment in time that was required for Mutter and Kwin to land Wayland implementations. Both of which extend the Wayland specification in different ways to accommodate their needs. The rumours of Mir's death are greatly exaggerated. MATE is a very small team, with extremely constrained time. Implementing Wayland directly is, at our current development velocity, several years away in my opinion. If Mir could provide us a fast path to supporting Wayland we (and possibly other desktops without Wayland support) should explore it."
The Ubuntu MATE team is also working on a new version of Software Boutique, a graphical package manager. The new version of Software Boutique will work as a stand-alone application and will no longer be tied to the Ubuntu MATE Welcome greeter. The new version of Software Boutique will also support working with Snap packages. Martin Wimpress shared details on Google Plus: "While the Software Boutique will still be a carefully curated list of applications we plan to change the way the search works so that it will now interrogate the Snap store and Ubuntu archive in full. This will allow Software Boutique to be used as a general purpose package manager. Decoupling Software Boutique has several advantages: it can be installed and used on other distros (something we regularly are asked about), Software Boutique and Ubuntu MATE Welcome use fewer system resources and Software Boutique will dynamically adapt to the currently selected theme to better fit in with your preferred look and feel."
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Qubes OS is a security-oriented operating system which places a strong emphasis on isolating processes and information. The Qubes OS project is experimenting with a new concept which should allow certain virtual machines in the Qubes platform to perform a limited selection of administrative functions. Joanna Rutkowska explains: "The main concept behind the Admin API is to let select VMs preform various select administrative functions over the Qubes OS system. If this idea scares the hell out of you, then, my dear reader, we're on the same side. Indeed, if we're not careful, we can use the Admin API to shoot ourselves in the foot. Moreover, it might look like we're actually adding complexity and enlarging the amount of trusted code (TCB) in Qubes OS. All good intuitions. But below I argue that the opposite actually holds, i.e. that the Admin API allows us to actually shrink the amount of trusted code, simplify trust relationships in the system, and ultimately to improve the overall security at the end of the day. It's a bit like comparing SSH to Telnet. Admittedly, at first sight, the SSH protocol has much more complexity than Telnet, yet no one questions today that SSH is actually significantly more secure than the much simpler Telnet." A complete explanation of the Admin API feature can be found in Rutkowska's news post.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Linking an ISO file to a specific user
Chasing-Tails asks: Is it possible to track an ISO from a distro like Tails or Kali? If I download Tails for a friend and they get caught with it, does the ISO have unique tracking information that can lead back to me?
DistroWatch answers: While it is technically possible for an ISO file to be altered prior to, or during, a download in order to insert user-specific tracking information into each copy, it is unlikely that will happen. Each unique ISO would need to be generated for a specific user or region and it would result in ISO files with different checksums. Security-oriented projects like Tails would not do this intentionally as it would be fairly easy for people to discover and then no one would trust the distribution anymore. So as long as you verify the checksum (and signature) of the ISO you download, you can be fairly certain it has not been tampered with and does not contain unique tracking information. If you want to be extra careful, ask someone else to download the same ISO file from a different location and confirm they get the same checksum you do. That will confirm the ISO file itself does not feature a digital fingerprint specific to you.
However, there are other ways a download could be tracked to you, though many of them require some investigation. If you are really worried about a state-level agency trying to find out where a copy of a distribution came from they have easier ways than watermarking a digital download. Following your friend or having someone ask them about Linux would likely lead them back to you. The DVD or USB drive you installed the ISO on probably has a serial number that could be tracked to your neighbourhood. You might leave fingerprints on the USB drive or DVD you passed to your friend. Your ISP may have records indicating you download Linux distributions and visit sites like those run by Kali and Tails.
My point is that while it is theoretically possible to tag and track an installation image file, it is fairly easy to guard against such methods. It is probably easier for people to track the origins of an ISO through other means, particularly traces left in the physical world. If you are worried about privacy-protecting media being tracked back to you, it may be a better option to teach a friend how to download Linux distributions in general and let them select the one(s) they want, rather than creating a ready-made installation media for them. I am not a lawyer and if distributing Linux distributions could result in legal ramifications, I recommend talking to a legal expert.
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More answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Manjaro Linux 17.0.2
Philip Müller has announced the release of Manjaro Linux 17.0.2, an updated build of the project's "Gellivara" set of distributions featuring KDE Plasma 5.10, GNOME 3.24 and Xfce 4.12: "Manjaro Gellivara was a great release. Now we are proud to announce 17.0.2 which fixes a lot of issues we had with our original release of Gellivara. It took us almost three months to finish this updated version. We improved our hardware detection, renewed our installer (Calamares), added the latest packages available to our install media and polished our release as a whole. Everyone who used older install media than this release should also read this announcement about password weakness and follow its advice to secure your systems. Features of this updated release Gellivara: latest LTS kernel from the Linux 4.9 series; latest X.Org stack from the 1.19 series; latest KDE Plasma 5, Applications, Framework and Qt; updates to our graphical package managers; enhancements and improvements to our Manjaro Tools and Profiles...." Here is the brief release announcement with a screenshot.
Clonezilla Live 2.5.2-17
Steven Shiau has announced the release of Clonezilla Live 2.5.2-17, an updated build of the Debian-based live CD with specialist utilities for disk cloning and backups: "This release of Clonezilla Live (2.5.2-17) includes major enhancements and bug fixes. Enhancements and changes: the underlying GNU/Linux operating system has been upgraded, this release is based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2017-06-26; Linux kernel has been updated to 4.11.6; Partclone has been updated to 0.2.91; languages file de_DE, es_ES, fr_FR, hu_HU, it_IT, ja_JP, sk_SK, and tr_TR have been updated; add SMB version selection when mounting CIFS; add brltty and espeakup packages; add sshpass and keychain packages; a lite server has been added to Clonezilla Live, it can be used as Clonezilla server, with limited features, but should work in most scenarios; re-arrange the main menu of Clonezilla live as 'device-image', 'device-device', 'remote-source', 'remote-dest', 'lite-server', 'lite-client'; boot parameter 'ocs_litesrv_mode' has been added for lite server pre-setting - use-existing-dhcpd, start-new-dhcpd, auto-detect, no-dhcpd." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details.
Linuxfx 8.0
Rafael Wagner has announced the launch of a new version of Linuxfx, a Brazilian distribution based on Ubuntu and featuring the KDE Plasma desktop. The new release, Linuxfx 8.0, is based on Ubuntu LTS packages and features the Plasma 5 desktop environment. Linuxfx also includes the WPS productivity software which offers strong compatibility with Microsoft Office documents. An English translation of the release announcement reads: "The latest news of the most advanced Linux system with all the stability and security of the LTS version. Fully compatible with programs developed for Debian and Ubuntu and always with the latest stable versions of KDE. All this is updated automatically, without the need of any technical knowledge! Install programs with the Discover facility, surf the internet with Chromium, or edit your documents and spreadsheets with the WPS Office. Meet Plasma, the most beautiful high-end Linux desktop, why we believe your computer must be unique just like you. For OEM integrates, the Sentinel ctOS - access control platform for biometrics, vehicle license plate reading and virtual concierge - is already shipped."
Linuxfx 8.0 -- Running the Plasma 5 desktop
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Calculate Linux 17.6
Alexander Tratsevskiy has announced the release of an update build of Calculate Linux, a set of desktop and server distributions based on Gentoo Linux, free of systemd. This version is provided in four desktop variants, featuring KDE Plasma 5.9.5, Cinnamon 3.4.2, MATE 1.18.0 and Xfce 4.12.3. "We are happy to announce the release of Calculate Linux 17.6, marking the 10th anniversary of the project. This new version features installation in LXC/LXD containers, theme customization, more stability with automatic dependency support, better security as editing the kernel parameters now requires a password and system update can be only performed by users authorized to do so. Main changes: Calculate gets a new flavour, 'Calculate Linux Container', to be installed on a LXC/LXD virtual machine; no default password is provided on a newly installed system - instead, a user password is prompted for at installation time; you can manage access privileges via Calculate Console; the 'sudo' group was added for sudo authentication...." Read the full release announcement for further details and upgrade instructions.
Netrunner 17.06
The Netrunner project has announced the availability of Netrunner 17.06, a desktop distribution built from Debian Testing packages. The new version ships with the KDE Plasma desktop, Linux kernel 4.9.0 and Firefox 52 ESR. "The Netrunner Team is happy to announce the immediate availability of Netrunner 17.06 'Daedalus' 64- bit ISO. Netrunner 17.06 ships with an upgraded stack of KDE Plasma, Frameworks and Apps on top of an updated Debian Testing, plus the usual selection of applications like LibreOffice, Kdenlive, GIMP, Audacious, Steam, Skype, Transmission, VirtualBox, Krita, Inkscape and many more. Here is an excerpt of some major version numbers shipped in Netrunner 17.06: Linux Kernel 4.9.0-1, Plasma 5.10, Frameworks 5.34, Qt 5.7.1, KDE Applications 17.04, Firefox 52 ESR, Thunderbird 52.1." Information on the new update to the Netrunner distribution, along with screen shots, can be found in the project's release announcement.
Netrunner 17.06 -- Featuring the KDE Plasma desktop
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4MLinux 22.0
Zbigniew Konojacki has announced the release of 4MLinux 22.0, a new stable version of the project's fast and lightweight mini Linux distribution featuring JWM as the preferred desktop user interface. This version comes with several new features, including the ability to set it up as a LAMP server: "The status of the 4MLinux 22.0 series has been changed to STABLE. Create your documents with LibreOffice 5.4.0 and GIMP 2.8.22, share them using DropBox 28.4.14, surf the Internet with Firefox 54.0 and Chromium 59.0.3071.86, stay in touch with your friends via Skype 5.3.0.1 and Thunderbird 52.2.1, enjoy your music collection with Audacious 3.8.2, watch your favorite videos with MPlayer and VLC 2.2.6, play games powered by Mesa 13.0.4 and Wine 2.10. You can also set up the 4MLinux LAMP Server (Linux 4.9.33, Apache 2.4.25, MariaDB 10.2.6, PHP 5.6.30 and PHP 7.0.15). Perl 5.24.0 and Python 2.7.12 are also available. 4MLinux 22.0 comes with some amazing new features (Skype, FreeCol game, support for the LUKS disk encryption). However, the biggest changes are related to the 4MLinux Server, which is now feature-rich and the lightest and fastest server suite available on the market." Here is the full release announcement.
Linux Mint 18.2
Clement Lefebvre has announced the availability of a new release of Linux Mint. The new version, Linux Mint 18.2, is the latest update in the 18.x series and is built upon a base of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The new release will be supported until 2021 and is available in four editions (Cinnamon, KDE, MATE and Xfce). Linux Mint 18.2 features improvements to the X-Apps cross-desktop applications with improved short-cuts coming to the Xplayer video player and line sorting coming to the Xed text editor. The login screen is now powered by LightDM running the Slick greeter and includes support for HiDPI. The update manager has been tweaked to help users find their ideal balance between security updates and system stability: "The Update Manager received many improvements. It still has the same mission and tackles the same issues as before (keeping your computer safe, providing bug fixes and protecting you from regressions) but it presents things slightly differently. Policies and level definitions were refined to better filter updates depending on their level of impact on the operating system and without worrying about their origin. Most updates are now level 2. Application updates which do not impact the OS are level 1. Toolkits and desktop environments or libraries which affect multiple applications are level 3. Kernels and sensitive system updates are level 4. Level 5 is extremely rare and not used by default. This level is dedicated to flagging dangerous or broken updates." Further information and screen shots can be found in the project's release announcements (Cinnamon, KDE, MATE, Xfce) and in the release notes (Cinnamon, KDE, MATE, Xfce).
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. Thanks to Linux Tracker we are able to share the following torrent statistics.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 472
- Total data uploaded: 14.2TB
You may note that this week's "Total data uploaded" torrent statistic is lower than last week's. This is because the old stat, which we were importing from the Linux Tracker server, included all data uploaded by both ourselves and any users who were using torrents linked to our Linux Tracker account. The new, lower value represents only data our server has uploaded.
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll |
Single purpose, single platform distributions
Most of the time, we here at DistroWatch, focus on exploring flavours of GNU/Linux and BSD which run on generic, x86 computers. We generally try to explore and share computing options our readers can try at home without purchasing dedicated hardware in order to run the operating system. In some rare cases we have made exceptions to this rule. For example, the Raspbian distribution is a general-purpose operating system which is designed specifically to be run on the popular Raspberry Pi computer. Some similar operating systems, such as RaspBSD, have also been added to our database because, while they run on one specific set of hardware, RaspBSD and Raspbian are still general purpose operating systems and useful in a wide range of situations, potentially useful to millions of people.
Typically, up to this point, when an open source operating system worked with just one type of hardware and was designed for one specific purpose, we did not add the project to our database. Instead we have added these single-platform, single-task operating systems to our list of embedded systems.
While this approach of covering general purpose distributions has generally worked well for us, it has been noted that an increasing number of the projects on our waiting list are single-purpose, single-platform projects. Right now, we have at least four single-purpose distributions on the waiting list just for the Raspberry Pi platform (Raspberry Digital Signage, Raspberry Picture Frame, Raspberry Slideshow and RasPlex). These projects, like Raspbian and RaspBSD, run on the Pi series of computers, but have a dedicated purpose in mind. We have also had queries about tracking the UBports project, a community continuation of the Ubuntu Touch operating system for Android phones. UBports only runs on a handful of devices at the moment and has a narrow focus: running smart phones.
This week we would like to know what our readers think about adding these highly focused projects, dedicated to a specific use on a narrow range of hardware. Do you think having updates on Raspberry-based, dedicated systems is useful? Are you interested in the latest updates from UBports? Or are you more interested in general purpose distributions? Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments section.
You can see the results of our previous poll on running distributions on CPUs older than i686 in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Single purpose, single platform distributions
| I would like to know more about Raspberry-based projects: | 334 (26%) |
| I would like to know more about UBports: | 126 (10%) |
| I would like to know more about both: | 360 (28%) |
| I am not interested in either: | 467 (36%) |
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| DistroWatch.com News |
New projects added to database
Photon OS
Photon OS is a minimal Linux container host, optimized to run on VMware platforms (though it is capable of running in other environments). Photon OS includes a small number of packages and offers users a command line interface. The default installation will often require less than 100MB of memory to run. The operating system comes with Docker pre-installed.
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Distributions added to waiting list
- Pop!_OS. Pop!_OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 and designed with developers and 3-D model creators in mind.
- Redcore Linux. Redcore Linux is a Gentoo-based distribution for desktop and laptop users. It includes desktop, multimedia and productivity software in the default installation.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 10 July 2017. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
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- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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1 • Manjaro Open-RC ISOs (by Somewhat Reticent on 2017-07-03 00:55:53 GMT from United States)
These can also be found at a separate SourceForge project:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/
2 • Manjaro is an awesome arch based distro. (by Brad on 2017-07-03 01:06:34 GMT from United States)
I've used many Arch based distros.. and platforms for installing arch; besides using the "arch way". Such as Arch-Anywhere/Arch-revenge(both just live cds for using an automated installer) and antergos (arch based spin) .. I'm using arch proper after years of learning/figuring stuff out, but in my experience.. Manjaro is to arch what Mint is to debian. Arch is just awesome however/whatever way you can use/install it!
3 • Single purpose, single platform distributions (by Greg Zeng on 2017-07-03 02:56:18 GMT from Australia)
"Raspberry-based, dedicated systems" are very, very hardware dependent. The CPU, etc is very rapidly upgrading, incompatible with earlier versions. Raspberry family CPUs have other competitive brand names in the same market sector. It is is the same category of the ARM CPUs used in Android devices (not just tablets & phones), imho.
4 • Arch, Manjaro and Antergos (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2017-07-03 04:31:57 GMT from United States)
A few months ago I decided to switch from Fedora 25 to a rolling release. After trying Debian Testing, Fedora Rawhide and openSUSE Tumbleweed, I decided to look at Gentoo / Sabayon and Arch / Manjaro / Antergos.
To make a long story short, I couldn't get the GNOME desktop to work on Manjaro. I had enough problems with Sabayon that it came down to raw Gentoo, raw Arch or Antergos.
Antergos was a joy to install and use. I wasn't too crazy about having an extra repository on top of all the Arch repos, but IMHO it's much better than Manjaro. I ended up on raw Arch. If you install from the "archboot" media, it's mostly as easy as the Debian text-based installer. Partitioning is a bit tricky and you'll have to install some extra packages if the system is dual-booted, but once you get the base installed the rest of it is quite easy.
5 • @4 (by brad on 2017-07-03 04:39:11 GMT from United States)
I acquired a 2nd laptop for free... 1st gen i7 and Arch for some reason wouldn't install.. so i put mint, then Ubuntu mate, etc.. After you use Arch (my personal .02) it's very very difficult to use anything else.. nothing else "feels" right.
I did get Arch on there somehow, and I ended up with XFCE and I'm not looking back..
6 • @4 Rolling Release (by linuxista on 2017-07-03 05:55:06 GMT from United States)
Debian Testing and Fedora Rawhide are not rolling releases. They are staging development repos with zero QA, and are not purposed to serve as functioning systems for the end user.
Until you get rid of that extra Antergos repo, I wouldn't call it "raw Arch." The Antergos repo is much more extensive than other Arch respins, like the late Apricity, Archbang, Archlabs, etc., which generally just have some theming and maybe a Chrome binary. The Antergos repo has all the packages for most of the DEs, as well as a larger selection of other binaries that are normally just available in the AUR.
It certainly is possible to unhitch from Antergos and get closer to "raw Arch," but it's going to take a bit of work to disable the Antergos repo without causing too many glitches. I also suspect that Antergos may do more unorthodox things with its configuration files than plain Arch based on the needs of its ambitious installer, which is probably why lightdm is the display manager for every DE.
7 • Manjaro (by Alexandre Dumas on 2017-07-03 06:05:58 GMT from Australia)
Thanks Jesse for the review, the Manjaro developers are really firing and this distro is a great alternative to the Buntus.
8 • Manjaro (by Simpleton on 2017-07-03 06:18:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
Nice review (as usual), but Linux Mint Xfce (new version today) does it better on every count and, being the most popular, has the most extensive support Fora. Arch, like Gentoo, tends to be niche and aimed at IT-literati; Mint is for Joe Public...
9 • Majaro XFCE 17.0.2 vs SwagArch 17.06 XFCE (by Tran Older on 2017-07-03 06:20:03 GMT from Vietnam)
If you love "raw Arch"then SwagArch 17.06 (https://swagarch.github.io/index.html) would be considered a better choice. It could be considered a continuation of now-defunct Apricicity OS. Verdict : Majaro XFCE 17.0.2 : 9.5/10; SwagArch 17.06 : 8.75/10
10 • KDE (by HKMarkP on 2017-07-03 06:53:41 GMT from Hong Kong)
And Manjaro KDE is the best implementation of Plasma imo.
11 • @8 All Hail Mint (by linuxista on 2017-07-03 07:47:50 GMT from United States)
Even if Mint did have the most extensive support Fora, what good would it be since by your own claim it's the IT-illiterate leading the IT-illiterate?
12 • @1 Does Manjaro OpenRC KDE Plasma ISO exist? (by Elcaset on 2017-07-03 08:29:52 GMT from United States)
I can't find an ISO of Manjaro OpenRC KDE Plasma anywhere. The only current edition of Manjaro OpenRC I can find is with XFCE. There are some old OpenRC ISOs from 2015 with i3 desktop & fluxbox, but not KDE Plasma or Trinity DE. If this does exist, please mention where. Thanks!
13 • @ 8 (by OstroL on 2017-07-03 09:21:43 GMT from Poland)
Is there a need to use Linux Mint Xfce, when Xubuntu has everything in it? No one is blocking you from upgrading to the newest packages in Xubuntu and if you are adventurous enough, you can have Xubuntu 17.10
14 • @12 Manjaro OpenRC KDE (by blob on 2017-07-03 09:26:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
There is (to the best of my knowledge) not an iso for Manjaro OpenRC KDE. You could either use the Xfce iso and then change DEs or you could use the Manjaro Architect installer and select both KDE and OpenRC when setting up the system.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-architect/?source=directory
15 • Majaro - Nvidia driver too old for good Vulkan support (by morgan on 2017-07-03 09:27:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
At present Majaro is not a good choice for gamers, the version of the nvidia driver is an older version and doesn't have the performance benefits that the 381.22 driver offers in terms of Vulkan.
I now refuse to run as my main desktop any distro where the latest stable driver isn't offered easily, and it is the only reason I do not run Tumbleweed, yes I could install the binary .RUN driver from nvidia.com however even with dkms there are times after other package updates (other than the kernel) where you have a desktop that doesn't boot (i.e mesa updates, etc) and require manually re-installing the driver.
16 • Ubuntu Mate (by jymm on 2017-07-03 10:29:12 GMT from United States)
Looking forward to the change in the software boutique. I use Ubuntu Mate and currently prefer Synaptic to the software boutique. Hoping the changes to the software boutique are positive enough to no longer need another package manager.
17 • Arch Installer (by OstroL on 2017-07-03 11:54:51 GMT from Poland)
Maybe the best and the quickest way to install Arch Linux can be done by an installer called Feliz. Its also interesting to know that Feliz is created by a woman, Elizabeth Mills. You can find it here, https://github.com/angeltoast/feliz
18 • Calculate Linux (by a on 2017-07-03 12:30:50 GMT from France)
Something that’s not clear about Calculate is if all the packages are built from source like on Gentoo, or if they provide bin packages. It isn’t mentionned on their web site. If they provide pre-built packages it could be a nice option for slower computers.
19 • Calculate Linux (by Dave Postles on 2017-07-03 12:40:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
I may be wrong, but I think that emerge builds from source.
20 • Calculate (by Jesse on 2017-07-03 12:49:49 GMT from Canada)
@18: Calculate's software is, by default, installed from binary packages. You have the option of installing from source if you wish, but the default is binary packages.
21 • Arch Linux (by sydneyj on 2017-07-03 12:54:44 GMT from United States)
Just for the record, Arch Linux is installed from the command line with an archlinux iso. Use the handholders if you must, but you will not be welcome on the Arch boards. You will simply be a (e.g;) Manjaro user with an Arch base.
22 • AURs & PPAs (by dragonmouth on 2017-07-03 12:59:29 GMT from United States)
How sure can we be that the software in AURs and PPAs has been thoroughly checked for malware and/or ill intent? Is there some entity that vets and approves user-developed software for inclusion?
23 • Calculate Linux (by a on 2017-07-03 13:00:18 GMT from France)
@20 Thanks for the clarification!
@19 Yes emerge builds from source… if the package (ebuild) tells it to do so ;). There are also pre-built packages, like firefox-bin for example, but on Gentoo there are very few of them.
24 • Manjaro (by Jordan on 2017-07-03 13:02:01 GMT from United States)
I was hooked on Manjaro for quite some time; it was my default for over a year. Using it on two laptops I decided to dedicate "the other" laptop to distro hopping and ended up on Solus (which is now on both laptops). When I attempted to "go back to Manjaro" on one of the laptops just for the sake of diversity, I could not get the live DVD to boot. I tried it on the other, same story.
The forums offer a bit of help but nothing worked, not even going to the flash drive method and trying different spins. I stopped struggling with it as I was running out of patience and time, thus Solus.
Am happy with Solus. :)
25 • 24 • Arch Linux (by lenn on 2017-07-03 13:04:28 GMT from Canada)
Once you install Arch through an installer like Feliz, you get the vanilla Arch install. There is no such thing as not being welcome in the Arch boards. Arch forum welcomes all. How you install Arch is your matter, not the matter of Arch Linux. Arch Linux doesn't dictate anything on anyone. Don't try to demonize Arch Linux.
26 • nvidia driver freshness (by steanne on 2017-07-03 14:03:51 GMT from United States)
@15 nvidia's drivers have short- and long-term branches. manjaro runs the latest driver from the long-term branch. the current difference between release dates in the two branches is five days (5/4 for 375.66, 5/9 for 381.22). that's not exactly "an older version".
27 • Manjaro, Arch, Atergos,... (by Vukota on 2017-07-03 14:16:39 GMT from Serbia)
My experience was similar as @4 had. I had major problems with Manjaro's installer (graphics driver and resolution, WiFi driver not working, GPT partitioning issues with multiple disks, ugly fonts, etc...). Besides the issues with installer I found that there is a huge difference (usability wise) between Arch (which has latest packages and latest security updates) and Manjaro's which waits with updates several months. Problem is that those "urgent" updates Arch does are make or break type of updates/patches that end up few months late in Manjaro and if you are unlucky to have a hardware that is related to these fixes (as I had on more than few occasions with Manajaro) you end up with a broken system for which you don't have a good/quick workaround for a few months (which is in my book unacceptable). With Arch, breakages are usually very quickly fixed. Also, "sources" for some additional packages in Manjaro are somewhat obscure (I believe it is Ubuntu) and those produce sometimes mess (due to a different configurations) on its own as well.
I found (from my experience) that Antergos is a much better Arch based distro than Manjaro. Their beautiful installer works flawlessly and you get mostly the current Arch with it. I haven't found a single occasion that something was broken by Antergos repositories (only by base Arch) and that any latest Arch (wiki or forum) instructions were not 100% applicable on Antergos (beside the obvious: additional Antergos repository with its keys and signatures on top of the Arch repos).
Now, from the standpoint of updates, all three of them have issues with cyclic/missing dependencies and file permission differences between updates and different package split/delete type of changes, and if you don't do updates every day (i.e. put a computer in a closet for two months), you'll have issues with updates which will require manual (command line) fixing and sometimes searching how/what to fix.
@22: I have the same concern. More so with AUR, than PPAs, as I either trust PPA maintainer or not (and usually I only add really important and well known PPAs with well known maintainers). With AUR, there are no really important or well known/trusted maintainers and often sources, as the sources are almost always from some third party and I am hesitant to install/update anything that is from AUR (especially if it is used for network/internet access to unreliable third parties). I always inspect AUR configuration/script/source and tend to install only from well trusted sources behind, but will admit there should be a better way. So far this was a price you have to pay for the latest and greatest software that is written for the Linux by any distribution (and that runs natively in full speed and with smallest memory footprint).
28 • Arch (by sydneyj on 2017-07-03 14:26:53 GMT from United States)
@25 From the Arch Forums/Forum Rules:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/misc.php?action=rules
"These forums are for Arch Linux ONLY. Not Antegros, or Apricity, or Manjaro or anything other than vanilla Arch Linux. Ask those communities for support. If you have installed Arch, please read the rules before posting. README: Forum Rules."
Guess again.
29 • Arch (by sydneyj on 2017-07-03 14:47:31 GMT from United States)
@25 Here's some more from the Arch Forums:
"These boards are for the support of Arch Linux, and Arch ONLY
If you have installed Archbang, Antegros, Chakra, Evo/Lution, Manjaro, Whatever, you are NOT running Arch Linux. Similarly, if you followed some random video on YouTube or used an automated script you found on a blog, you are NOT running Arch Linux, so do not expect any support, sympathy or anything but your thread being closed and told to move along.
Arch is a DIY distro: if someone else has done it for you, then showing up here asking to have your hand held for more help is just help vampirism and is not welcome."
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=130309
I presume you don't want to argue this point further. You could test by posting on the Arch boards and tell them you used an installer, see what kind of response you get. I have witnessed it firsthand several times.
For the further record, I do not ever "demonize" Arch. I have used it for many years, and have great affection for it. It's the help vampires and circlejerkers that drive me crazy.
30 • they really look down on non-vanilla arch users..in forums (by Brad on 2017-07-03 14:57:37 GMT from United States)
Heavens forbid you ask a question mods don't like or they don't believe, no matter how much you describe what you've done to try to help yourself, you've done enough.. reminds ya of those old RTFM/google it yourself days/comments.. you would figure those "arch" based distros would be, for quite a few, gateway distros to using arch proper, and these people should be welcome with open arms and not shooed away... just my .02
31 • Redcore Linux (by Saleem Khan on 2017-07-03 14:58:27 GMT from Pakistan)
Redcore Linux is a surprise distribution, Gentoo based but offers binary packages with no need of compiling packages. I wish Distrowatch reviews it.
32 • Arch... (by Vukota... on 2017-07-03 15:17:49 GMT from Serbia)
@8, @29: Very true, although you don't have to tell them that you used something else to install Arch in some of the mentioned cases (admittedly Manjaro is not that case as they don't use current Arch as a base and for a majority of packages).
33 • Tails may not be secure. (by OS2_user on 2017-07-03 15:21:49 GMT from United States)
Believe was version 1.6 of Tails, in the network tray I noticed a check box set on letting icanhazip.com get my real -- non-TOR network -- IP address. So who and what is icanhazip.com? The site claims a "researcher" who pays for bandwidth just out of curiosity. Baloney. There's zero reason for Tails to have that. Haven't looked in recent versions. MAYBE was overlooked by Tails itself, but I doubt. How did that check box get there in first place? It's effectively hidden because unexpected and irrelevant, though Tails and icanhazip.com can claim you "agreed" to the tracking because didn't turn it off. Someone was paid to by an intelligence "service". Besides that, many of the entrance nodes are known to be run by intelligence: honey traps. Who else would pay for terabytes of bandwidth?
You should trust no software that haven't written yourself from bare metal. That means zero. You cannot possibly read through millions of code lines, besides know that the binary on your drive is actually built solely from that code, beside figure out all possible back doors, intended or not.
In short, Tails and TOR are only good for dodging bans by small web-sites.
34 • @ 29 Arch install (by OstroL on 2017-07-03 15:34:48 GMT from Poland)
"For the further record, I do not ever "demonize" Arch. I have used it for many years, and have great affection for it. It's the help vampires and circlejerkers that drive me crazy."
Help is the keyword in the Linux world. If you use Feliz, and still get a vanilla Arch install, you got a vanilla Arch install. The "circlejerkers" don't drive me crazy. I can only thank them. The time of the masochists are gone!
35 • Arch (by sydneyj on 2017-07-03 15:41:08 GMT from United States)
@30 Arch is not really concerned with attracting large numbers of new users. From Arch FAQ:
"Arch needs more press (i.e. advertisement)
Arch gets plenty of press as it is. The goal of Arch Linux is not to be large; rather, organic, sustainable growth occurs naturally amongst the target user base."
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Frequently_asked_questions
Arch attracts plenty of new users because it is excellent for its *target users*. We are not concerned with "gateways".
36 • Manjaro / ArchBox (by Winchester on 2017-07-03 16:21:48 GMT from United States)
Manjaro is not bad if you want most of the latest software. Maybe a couple of weeks behind Arch from what I understand.
Myself,I prefer some of the Gentoo-based distributions such as Calculate Linux. RedCore Linux does look interesting.
Manjaro / Arch seems to require more maintenance and end-user intervention to keep it going. I just recently completed a re-install of Manjaro FluxBox from the 15-12 (December of 2015) iso on a secondary computer. It ran relatively well from February 2016 with rolling updates until about late March or early April of this year when the repositories wouldn't load / update. There were other minor problems along the way. Plank broke with one update. I had to "downgrade" it for it to work properly again. It looks like that issue has since been sorted out with another more recent update. I could not get the audio output to function properly with the OpenRC version so,I resorted to the SystemD version. Somewhere along the line there was an issue where the system would take 90 seconds before it would shut down. "Stop Job Running .... please wait". The FluxBox scroll bars disappeared in the software / update manager.
My first re-install would not update to Manjaro 17.0.2 because of the outdated GStreamer 0.10 plug-in packages. The system broke right away upon trying to update it. So,I re-installed the 15.12 FluxBox iso once more (the 3rd time overall). This time,before trying to update the system,I removed the outdated GStreamer 0.10 plug-in packages and then ran a few PacMan commands BEFORE updating the system. After all of that,the system update finally worked. Next,I installed the current Gstreamer plug-ins ..... version 1.12. Now,I have Manjaro 17.0.2 FluxBox all up to date and running smooth for the time being. Still no longer any left or right scroll bars in the software / update manager window. I suspect that it is because of an error or an omission in a newer FluxBox window manager theme. I can't scroll through the software,I have to use the search bar.
Just to give people a general idea of what to expect from living with Manjaro and a "community edition".
ArchBox never seems to be mentioned but,for those who want Arch,OpenBox,a graphical installer and both 32-bit and 64-bit options,it seems like a good choice if this is your case. Very similar to Manjaro OpenBox,Manjaro FluxBox,and to Antergos OpenBox.
37 • DistroWatchWeekly (by Jordan on 2017-07-03 17:53:35 GMT from United States)
The knowledge, research, insights, writing skills, and WORK that are so obvious each week as we read the DistroWatchWeekly section here are always very much appreciated. Sometimes it really stands out and hits hard on a mark that makes it quite the keeper, as it has this week.
The review, poll section, and q&a this particular week very much have the over-the-top professional weight to them.
Thank you for DWW every week, and especially this week's.
38 • Manjaro (by Bonky Ozmond on 2017-07-03 17:58:26 GMT from Nicaragua)
i used Manjaro from when it first appeared on the scene really, up untilla year back....it was a very good reliable system i had openbox as i like openbox and theirs wasa very good pre configed version......sadly people had odd ideas about what it should be in the future..which caused big splits in the dev team and forums...next they dumped any support, i kept trying to keep mine running but with updates that didnt work getting installed regularly i had to give it up...
@18 Calculate makes installing a Gentoo system a breeze..you can run it like a gentoo system as it is basically Gentoo, and compile everything yourself ..or you have growing repo of e-builds you can still edit use flags and all that
I find it a great OS and runs fast and trouble free on a 32bit system...
39 • Ubuntu V Mint & AUR/PPA (by M.Z. on 2017-07-03 17:59:50 GMT from United States)
@13
"Is there a need to use Linux Mint Xfce, when Xubuntu has everything in it?"
I can assure you that there are indeed some very nice tools in Mint that you don't get in Ubuntu, so no version of Ubuntu 'has everything in it'. To me the better question is 'Is there any need to use x version of Ubuntu if Mint has a version available with that DE?" I know Ubuntu has done lots of useful things for the Linux desktop, yet I don't see any compelling reason to use it over Mint when there are so much better tools in Mint. To name just a few: the repo management is a breeze, ensuing faster downloads of new software/updates; the update management is more fine tuned to maximize user control & minimize breakages/regressions; and there is a great tool set to handle outside software, including support for .deb files and and their security keys, & GUI support for PPAs. I've played with Ubuntu in Virtual Machines before & never found anything as compelling as Mint, though I've been meaning to put their final Unity release in a VM to look it over.
@22
I think #27 has it right from what I've heard about AURs & PPAs. There are some definite security risks involved because you are ultimately pulling software from somewhere that is far less vetted than an official repo. In some ways those alternate sources are a bit like sites that give away free downloads of Windows software & in many cases it can be hard to sure everything is correct & secure.
40 • X86 (by Jessica F Lawson on 2017-07-03 18:23:39 GMT from United States)
I don't use X86 any more. I had it with Intel running our community. We still don't have full X support on the SGI Indigo 2 and yet we people are porting Linux to the Shitbox one. I get it more people want new hardware then old hardware. Linux does not have any stake in the retro computer market. It belongs to ether closed source OS's. The only two we got are FreeBSD and NetBSD. FreeDOS is only partly free with closed source compontets. AROS is X86 only, but could be ported in theory. OS-free is dead and no one other then me wants to see modern linux runing on old hardware. I don't give a shit about linux adding support for a new Xeon I want support for my Apple 2 GS. Wow another dumb game came to Steam, but Darling is still stalled. Wow another Doom clone, yet there is work needed for rust to be done. I am not a programer so at best all I can do is bitch and hope the NetBSD guys will add suport because the linux guys don't care any more. They rather play Doom 2016 then get linux running on a Dreamcast.
41 • Manjaro (by Rich52 on 2017-07-03 20:04:38 GMT from United States)
I've got nothing but praise for Manjaro. Been using it for 4 years now. Got tired with Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint and the likes. . . . they're all good distro's but Manjaro has has had a fast rise to the top of all of them in my opinion. I've used all 3 (Xfce,Gnome, KDE). Wine works well and I have a lot of apps from the AUR repository running on my computers. Antergos is my other distro which I have installed on an old laptop. It too works well. Kudo's for the Manjaro development team for their fine efforts and making this an excellent distro. I use the proprietary Nvida drivers on the desktop and an Intel driver chipset for the laptop. Everything works well including their kernel updates.
42 • @39 (by lenn on 2017-07-03 20:33:14 GMT from Canada)
There is NO reason to use 2nd hand Mint Xfce, when XUBUNTU is there. There is no such thing as x version of Ubuntu, but Xubuntu. If you are such a fanboi of Mint, and you don't like Ubuntu, why don't you ask your dev to base it on any other base than Ubuntu? Why not create an independent distro?
There are more respectful developers such as ones, who created Arya Linux. Such distros can add any DE to its base, for that's done independently.
And, don't argue for the sake of arguing.
"I think #27 has it right from what I've heard about AURs & PPAs." That's just hearsay!
Use AURs and PPAs for few years and come back to tell something about them.
43 • Steam on Manjaro (by Peter Burns on 2017-07-03 20:37:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
I didn't see anyone else mention this, so I will - the reason Steam doesn't work in a standard Manjaro installation is that it does not actually pre install the steam runtime. Simply tick the box in the package manager to install it and agree to the steam agreement and there you go. I bet they don't include it as standard because a lot of people wouldn't like having steam fully preinstalled, as it is nowhere near FOSS with its user agreement.
44 • Substitute for X, right? (Can't we all just get along?) (by M.Z. on 2017-07-03 22:31:05 GMT from United States)
@42
"There is no such thing as x version of Ubuntu..."
You've heard of substitute for X, right? When most people say something like that it means there is Mint KDE as an alternative to Kubuntu, Mint XFCE for Xubuntu, etc., but saying X version is a math related thing most people recognize as a quick & easy short hand.
"...why don't you ask your dev to base it on any other base than Ubuntu?"
Funny, both my previous post & this one are from Linux Mint Debian Edition. You have heard that that's been around for awhile haven't you? Also, I thought Ubuntu was happy to have child distros base on them, do they not like the fact that they are open source anymore? Why be so grumpy when someone else finds more utility in the child distro than the parent? Do Debian users ever tell you to use straight Debian or else ask the Ubuntu devs to switch to another base? That seems to me to be a bit against the spirit of open source, doesn't it to you?
"There is NO reason to use 2nd hand Mint Xfce, when XUBUNTU is there."
See post @39 regarding Mint tools.
"...That's just hearsay!"
No, it's a potential problem that isn't actually being actively exploited. From someone who would know better than either of us: "A malicious PPA archive could affect Ubuntu and Linux Mint users..."
From the following post on Mint security: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3007
"And, don't argue for the sake of arguing."
No offense was intended, but I do find that statement a little ironic.
45 • Redcore Linux (by OhioJoe on 2017-07-04 04:00:00 GMT from United States)
@31 I hope Distrowatch reviews Redcore Linux as well. I wonder if I can change ithe desktop to Xfce. Always like to try Gentoo based distros.
46 • Arch forums (by Microlinux on 2017-07-04 05:40:33 GMT from France)
I'm a long time Linux user, started out with Slackware 7.1 and my first source of help was news:alt.os.linux.slackware on USENET. I gave Arch a spin briefly ten years ago, and the impression I had from the forum (moderators and users alike) was that it was fine to talk about the weather as long as you were a member of the Royal Meteorological Society.
47 • @ 44 AURs are trusted (by OstroL on 2017-07-04 10:05:24 GMT from Poland)
Actually, AURs are trusted. Here's what Arch Linux say,
"We complement our official package sets with a community-operated package repository that grows in size and quality each and every day.
Our strong community is diverse and helpful, and we pride ourselves on the range of skillsets and uses for Arch that stem from it."
48 • @40 Running GNU/Linux on old hardware (by Elcaset on 2017-07-04 11:31:48 GMT from United States)
There are quite a lot of other people (including myself) who like to run GNU/Linux on old hardware for various reasons. Even really old hardware. You are not alone!
@14 Thanks for the recommendations for creating Manjaro OpenRC KDE.
49 • single-purpose distros (by Jim Michaels on 2017-07-04 12:56:18 GMT from United States)
As one characterization--of the Raspberry Pi--put it, "...a cheap little computer...".
Why in the world would I be interested in a Linux distribution aimed ONLY at a "...cheap little computer..."?
Why would YOU, Distrowatch, waste your precious, limited resources?
50 • Raspberry Pi (by Jesse on 2017-07-04 13:28:23 GMT from Canada)
@49: "Why in the world would I be interested in a Linux distribution aimed ONLY at a "...cheap little computer..."?"
There have been over 14 million Raspberry Pi computers sold. Most, probably close to all of them, run one flavour of Linux or another. That means there are probably over 10 million people who are interested in both Linux and the Pi. You, personally, may not be interested in the devices but a lot of people like them. That is why we cover operating systems like Raspbian.
51 • @46 but.. (by Brad on 2017-07-04 13:50:22 GMT from United States)
As elitist as arch users & forum users/moderators can be... if you're lucky enough to be able to search for your problem and find it solved on their forums... it's a very good way to fix things.. besides that I've been kicked from their forums multiple times over the years.. I've read everything in various threads.. and they didn't exactly answer my question or shed light onto what I was dealing with..and i explained everything.. and was chastised many times.. Ubuntu forums are a great source of help also.. with a kinder gentler community based on respect and helpfulness.. just my .02 from many bad experiences.
52 • Arch is simple, st*pid! (by sofiasmith on 2017-07-04 14:23:27 GMT from Spain)
Arch is simple, not easy. This is my complete installation KDE plasma on Acer old laptop through wifi: (2 partitions done with gparted)
loadkeys es && wifi-menu && swapon /dev/sda2 && mount /dev/sda1 /mnt && pacstrap -i /mnt base base-devel && genfstab -U -p /mnt >> /mnt/etc/fstab
#arch-chroot /mnt
nano /etc/locale.gen (select en_US.UTF-8) && locale-gen && echo LANG=en_US.UTF-8 > /etc/locale.conf && export LANG=en_US.UTF-8 && ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Madrid > /etc/localtime && hwclock --systohc –utc && echo arch > /etc/hostname && passwd (for root) && useradd -m -g users -G wheel,storage,power -s /bin/bash sofiasmith && passwd sofiasmith && pacman -S dialog wpa_actiond wpa_supplicant grub && grub-install --target=i386-pc --recheck /dev/sda && grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg && exit && umount -R /mnt && reboot
After reboot:
ip addr (wlp3s0) && systemctl enable netctl-auto@wlp3s0 && wifi-menu
pacman -S xorg-server ttf-dejavu xf86-video-intel xf86-input-synaptics plasma firefox chromium flashplugin libreoffice ktorrent okular vlc qt4 ffmpeg etc etc
systemctl enable sddm
reboot
53 • Of Tails, Tor and the State... (by Tom Joad on 2017-07-04 15:37:10 GMT from Austria)
@33, et.al
God only knows what is really secure and beyond the reach of the State. If one reads the disclaimers and other info offered by Tails and Tor, they pretty much tell you to have your guard up. Sure, they say their stuff is better than open yahoo email but it ain't bullet proof. Likely, as you say, Tails, Tor and the like, keep it down to a mild roar. They eliminate some of the troublesome stuff.
But the State will always know or at the very least should be held to know whether they know or not. And that is the real strong position to work from. As an old saying goes, "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean 'they' are NOT watching you." How do I know that is true?
Ed Snowden, among others, have pulled back the 'curtain' so to speak to reveal what is inside. We do KNOW now. The State knows a lot. That said Snowden used Tor and Tails and I have read he recommends both along with Noscripts and Spideroak. But he would say, too, if you use Tails and or Tor you better have your 'dukes' up if you want to sail into danger.
However, other than a philosophical and academic discussion none of it matters to those of us here. We know everything has limitations. As they say, your mileage may vary. We know we live in an increasingly dangerous world and that the Internet a wild, wild place.
Stay off the Silk Road.
54 • Arch (by sydneyj on 2017-07-04 16:10:54 GMT from United States)
@52 A nice, useful algorithm for MBR setups. I might suggest a third partition as /home (mount at mnt/home), in order to facilitate fresh installs. You can then just wipe your / partition, mount the /home partition unformatted, and reinstall Arch on /; all your configs will be preserved, just re-install packages. Also, you might want to consider a swapfile vs a full swap partition. A matter of choice.
Users should know that the algorithm is for MBR firmware machines, and won't work for UEFI setups. That would require yet another partition, /boot (mounted at /mnt/boot), formatted correctly, and with the proper hex code. You can then use grub, but also systemd-boot or rEFInd as a bootloader. If you multi-boot, grub can hijack your bootloader if you reinstall a second Linux system.
55 • @ 51 Arch users are NOT elitist (by lenn on 2017-07-04 16:17:37 GMT from Canada)
Arch users are NOT elitist. They might think they are, but they are not. Some mods and some users think they are, just because they managed to install Arch in the old masochist way. For others, who can't or don't want to be masochists, there are enough installation tools around. Those, who create these scripts are also users of Arch Linux, and maybe the best human beings, period!
56 • AURs... (by Vukota... on 2017-07-04 17:15:23 GMT from Serbia)
@47: Your quot is not mentioning any kind of "trust" level that is coming from AUR packages. It is extremely reckless to claim they are "trusted". First, sneaking malicious package as a fake user in AUR is a very quick and easy task. Any kind of vetting, review, etc. is not present there. Yes, people may catch thing or two at the time, but problem is that those packages are highly untrusted. For that matter, I can't think of any other Linux distro that has such an insecure "review" model. Things can be easily changed (and malicious things leaked in) at several levels of AUR packages from malicious configuration, malicious installation scripts in them to untrusted repositories for the sources behind AUR packages along with malicious dependent AUR packages. Binary things gathered through AUR may not be possible to inspect. Local build process is very (not to say extremely) insecure thing possibly done with too much privileges.
Comparing this to in example insecure packages from OBS, that you can confirm are built from provided sources on OpenSuse's servers is two different things and two different trust levels. In one case you can review everything (history, sources, build process, etc.) in advance before installing anything. In the other, there may be limited number of things you may do in advance (with various levels of trust).
57 • @56 (by OstroL on 2017-07-04 17:53:17 GMT from Poland)
"We complement our official package sets with a community-operated package repository that grows in size and quality each and every day.
Our strong community is diverse and helpful, and we pride ourselves on the range of skillsets and uses for Arch that stem from it."
That's what Arch Linux says in its official page.
"community-operated package repository" is AUR. Arch is made by a community and that community trusts its community-operated package repository.
I deduct that you don't use Arch, so you don't have to trust AURs. Arch users (and all other non-official "derivative" users) do, and that's all there is to it.
I have no idea what's OBS, and I am not interested in OpenSuse. I am not going to install OpenSuse now or in the far future.
I like Debian, Ubuntu, Arch and Gentoo. I don't mind PPAs, and I'd install them in both Ubuntu and Debian. I won't install any, I repeat any package without looking at it. Most times, I unarchive them and copy paste the files in appropriate folders. Then again, I don't need so many apps to have a working Linux install.
58 • Arch scripts...Arch-based distros... (by OstroL on 2017-07-04 20:35:27 GMT from Poland)
Did an experiment. Downloaded a non-official, (sort of) non-supported by the main Arch forums, but recognised by Arch Wiki pages (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch-based_distributions) distro, and liked what I saw. So, I installed it. The old arch installer (the old official one) was there. The installation went very smoothly. It was nice to see the old official installer after so many years. I got vanilla Arch installed with some additional apps from Arch and AUR repos (which I would've installed later, anyway) and it took less than 7 minutes. Lovely!
I won't give a damn what the forum mods or users would say. I am a user too.
Sure, it says "Warning: Arch-based distributions are not supported by the Arch community or developers." But, they support the packages, so the community would reply to questions, if they happen. The distros would look after themselves, for the guys, who created those distros are much brainier than the "users and mods." If you guys have a free partition (these days the hard disks are really big) try one or few of these Arch based distros on bare metal. You'd be surprised. You can learn a lot by reading the Wiki after. (Emphasis on "after.)
59 • AUR security (by M.Z. on 2017-07-04 20:44:25 GMT from United States)
@56 & @57
I think when it comes down to it 'secure' software in Linux, reasonably secure packages must have some degree of vetting & some sort of security mechanism built in their installation mechanism. If I install a package through the official repos in Mint or Mageia I can get security warning if the packages don't look like their security signatures say they should & can halt the installation/upgrade. I've seen issues with security signatures in both distributions & solved them, though I don't think there were any serious security issues with any of the software that had the issue.
In both cases the important thing wasn't that I had no real issues, but that I was able to see that there could be a problem & resolve it without issue regardless of the level of threat. This level of verification is important if you want good security. It could well be the case that neither AURs or PPAs will ever be used as a serious attack vector, but if they don't have the degree of security that most .deb & .rpm packages do through official repos then they are inherently less secure. There is an important distinction here between 'trustworthy to our users' and 'secure'.
If you want to highlight the difference you can look at the 'spices' software that can be installed in the Cinnamon desktop. The Linux Mint team originally built their Cinnamon desktop with very little security verification in the spices software that could be pulled from a network connection. There were no known security issues in the whole existence of the original spices system and all the things that could be added to the Cinnamon desktop could be considered trustworthy by Cinnamon users. None of that meant the system was actually all that secure. Now creating spices for the Cinnamon DE requires accounts & a greater degree of verification. This wasn't done because there were in serious issues, but rather to prevent them in the future. I'd argue that now Cinnamon is both more secure & more trustworthy because it has additional security procedures in its spices development process.
I honestly don't know enough about AURs to make any kind of judgement call on how secure they actually are, but I still have the impression that they are more like PPAs or the old Cinnamon spices system than they are like properly secured .deb/.rpm packages. It may well be good enough for Arch users & not pose any serious issues, but without more details on the process I'm not convinced that the AURs are actually secure. Are there signatures or other verification mechanisms built in? If not, it could be an opportunity for improvements that could increase trust & prevent possible issues in the future.
60 • Manjaro 17.2 iso problem (by Bill Julian on 2017-07-05 01:49:36 GMT from United States)
Jesse Smith's July 3 review of Manjaro 17.0.2 is well done but it may obscure a problem. At the beginning Jesse says "The download for this edition was 1.5GB in size and booting from the media presents us with the Xfce 4.12 desktop environment." Fair enough but there may be a difficulty. I downloaded and did a sha1sum for the 64-bit Xfce system as did Jesse. I wrote my iso file to a DVD disk, something I rarely do anymore. That disk simply did not work. It would appear to boot normally, until the script reported "starting login service" and then "A start job is running ...." to the left it showed a red "FAILED" indication. The script then apparently attempts to move through a variety of services it is required to start and these all fail. It searches as long as a person wants to watch it.
So what now? A visit to the Manjaro forum showed the problem has been discussed there. The suggested solution is to put the iso file on a jump-drive and boot from there. A simple dd script gets this done and sure enough the iso file then boots just as it should. So a jump-drive iso works, a DVD iso does not.
Once past this glitch Manjaro installs quite quickly and the system appears to run well. Might curious potential users trip over this? They might. The Manjaro team should repair the problem.
61 • Arch Toxic (by G. Savage on 2017-07-05 14:02:42 GMT from Canada)
The Arch forums have so poisoned the well, there is no going back - and that's too bad.
:-(
62 • joe public (by H Wms on 2017-07-05 14:27:39 GMT from United States)
With all the talk about Arch, I just thought I would comment. Joe Public, as in myself and I would imagine a great majority of Linux users, just want an installation that works without a huge learning curve. For me that distro is PCLOS KDE. It just works and is a rolling release. I have looked at other distros (Manjaro, Solus, Mint) and even installed them but so far nothing has been able to get me away from PCLOS. One doesn't have to be concerned about an unfriendly forum, either. No matter what dumb thing I ask everyone is kind and helpful. Even Texstar will chime in occasionally.
63 • @ 61. 62 (by OstroL on 2017-07-05 15:32:04 GMT from Poland)
The Arch based unofficial distro I installed for an experiment was Archbox, created by a Ukrainian. (post #58) Just 7 minutes to install. Works out of box. You can also find his work in Github.
I won't give a damn what the forum mods or users would say. I install what I want. They can keep their poison to themselves.
I'm going to try out Feliz too one of these days. Try them out. You won't be sorry.
64 • mint vs ubuntu vs debian vs.... (by Tim Dowd on 2017-07-05 16:28:14 GMT from United States)
@ 13, 42
What's the best *.deb based disto? I would hope we could all agree that it's the one that makes your computer work.
These all start from the same source: Debian Unstable. All of them are someone taking a snapshot of unstable and putting together a coherent operating system based on that snapshot. They inherently have different versions of the underlying packages... and that's what one's job is in picking the distro to install. Which is best for THIS computer?
In the 5 years I've used the *.deb family, I've used many versions of Debian stable, Debian testing, Ubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, Lubuntu, Mint, LMDE, and Lliurex. I can't tell you which one was the best because that was completely task, hardware, and year dependent. Maybe I wanted the newest version of LibreOffice, but I didn't want the newest Linux kernel because it broke my wifi. Or maybe there was some underlying change in a window manager or something that vastly improved or hurt performance on my particular system.
Why use Mint versus Ubuntu? Well, they have different kernel versions and different versions of packages available. Plus the default install makes different choices- some obvious and some less so. If one of them is working at like 80% for you, it makes sense to try the other to see if it does a better job. That's the point of open-source: you're not locked in and you can choose the best OS for you in the specific scenario you're in. Don't lock yourself in by thinking that because one is good the other must be bad.
65 • Single device projects (by Daniels on 2017-07-05 18:19:27 GMT from United States)
I feel coverage of Raspberry pi distros or similar projects would be better served by the raspberry pi community. But I am biased in that I don't own such a device and don't plan to.
66 • confused by DW search results (by tim on 2017-07-05 18:20:38 GMT from United States)
DW search page ~~ results for "distributions without systemd" seems to contain some incorrect listings. For instance, "Lakka - The DIY retro emulation console", I haven't booted it but had read thru its docs, bug tickets, etc which repeatedly mention systemd
67 • a question (by time on 2017-07-05 18:25:36 GMT from United States)
I probably should have posted the open-ended question:
Which active distributions without systemd support RaspberryPi 3 or Odroid XU4 ?
68 • systemd-free SBC distros (by nano-me on 2017-07-05 19:08:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
@64 I use Devuan, Void and Slackware, all of which are systemd-free. All three are available for various single-board-computers such as RPi3, Odroid XU4, PINE64. However, my interest in SBCs has not stretched to getting one and playing [I fear it would be more involved than installing x86 distros]. I would be interested in hearing others experiences with SBCs and systemd-free Linux.
69 • The .deb family and kernels @64 (by OstroL on 2017-07-05 19:11:36 GMT from Czech Republic)
My main workhorse is Openbox + Ubuntu base. The Ubuntu base is from 17.10, not a LTS release. This base had been updated and upgraded all the time. In other words, its like a rolling install. For few years it had been moving from one Ubuntu "testing" to another. For example, when the Ubuntu 17.10 stable is released sometime in October this year, in about few weeks the "Testing" 18.04 would be out. Then the repos would move from artful to "what-ever-the-name" next repo. Actually, I've not used the "stable" releases for so many years, and without any problems. (My Debian + Openbox install too is always Testing.)
Few days ago Linus released kernel 4.12, and I have it installed in Ubuntu Testing 17.10. Do I expect trouble? No, not at all! When, the next kernel 4.13 is released, I'd install that too. And, this is the install I use for my day to day work. Its more than 8 hours work every working day.
Debian Testing would always have older packages than Ubuntu. I like to check it out, but won't use it for work. Its just not interesting. But, Arch Linux is interesting, for they practically always have new packages, and you have to read a bit to keep it going. And, that exercises the brain.
There are some in the Linux world, who sell fear to grow their user base and keep their users. One of them usually say don't update and upgrade like Ubuntu, while his distro is using Ubuntu as the base. (Of course, using Debian stable as the base would be okay, for the packages are always older. Only, there won't be many users.)
70 • kernels and the deb family (by Tim Dowd on 2017-07-05 20:19:34 GMT from United States)
@69
I hope you don't think I'm trying to spread fear- I am not at all. If one's machine works well with the newest hardware, then being as current as possible is awesome.
For a couple of years I did exactly what you describe. But then after having no problems at all with Ubuntu 15.04 or 15.10, I found my machine ran much more poorly with 16.04 than with 15.10. I couldn't get the notoriously bad RTL8188EE wifi to work at all with 16.04, but I could limp by with 15.10 (which was of course about to lose support) or with LMDE 2 or Debian Jessie.
I may be the only one on the planet who liked Ubuntu 15.10 better than 16.04, but that's my point- every one of our computers is different, and what may be an improvement for 100,000 people might mess up 3 people's machines. When it happens to you, you quickly become grateful for things like Debian Stable or Ubuntu LTS.
In addition, every deb distribution makes hundreds of choices of things that aren't immediately obvious, like what window manager, or init system, or toolkits are in use, and for the average user experiencing poorer performance than they expected, the easiest thing is to just try a different set of defaults by distrohopping.
Finally, although most of the times the newest software is an improvement, sometimes the direction the developer has gone in isn't what one is interested in. GNOME3 was the obvious example, but I felt like the Debian Wheezy LXDE was better for me than the Debian Jessie, and I really like the older Kodi interface better than the newer one. Being able to stick with preferred software without being forced to upgrade is a joy when your favorite software gets changed.
I'm not arguing that any one distro is better or worse. I'm just arguing that we're better off with the diversity of distros because it gives us options when stuff goes wrong.
71 • Lakka (by Jesse on 2017-07-05 20:59:59 GMT from Canada)
@66: You are right, Lakka uses systemd. The project's entry has been updated. This one was filed under "misc/other" as no one is ever likely to interact with Lakka's init software or manage services on the distro, given its single-purpose nature.
72 • @ 70 (by OstroL on 2017-07-05 21:26:56 GMT from Poland)
"I hope you don't think I'm trying to spread fear- I am not at all." Not you, Tim, but the guy(s), who base his distro on Ubuntu, but block upgrades coming from Ubuntu.
"Being able to stick with preferred software without being forced to upgrade is a joy when your favorite software gets changed."
That I completely agree. I unarchive the deb file, check the control file to see, if all the dependencies are there in the repo, if not, find the dependencies in the net. Unarchive the data file and place the needed files in relevant folders. I won't paste the the files that apt sees, so they'd never be upgraded. I have an app I like from Natty days. Some of the dependencies are unavailable in the repos. I have the necessary files from the time, Ubuntu upgrade stopped having them in the repos. I just paste them. Apt won't see them, so it can't delete them. Synaptic is a very good tool to check the dependencies.
Until Lubuntu and Xubuntu are still there with Ubuntu, Xorg would not taken away from the repos, so my Openbox install would live.
"I'm not arguing that any one distro is better or worse. I'm just arguing that we're better off with the diversity of distros because it gives us options"
True! Not everyone is a tinkerer. Some people need point and shoot type. Some people here always come out with "Mint is better than Ubuntu" talk. Ubuntu and all its official derivatives would always are better than any Ubuntu based Mint. They are all up to date. Mint is 2nd hand and stale.
73 • Self Contradictions & FUD (by M.Z. on 2017-07-05 22:39:29 GMT from United States)
@72
'..."I hope you don't think I'm trying to spread fear- I am not at all." Not you, Tim, but the guy(s), who base his distro on Ubuntu, but block upgrades coming from Ubuntu
..."I'm not arguing that any one distro is better or worse. I'm just arguing that we're better off with the diversity of distros because it gives us options"
True! ... Ubuntu and all its official derivatives would always are better than any Ubuntu based Mint. They are all up to date. Mint is 2nd hand and stale.'
Do you see the irony there at all? Have you no self awareness about your own FUD at all? First you complain about FUD, then you admit that no distro is inherently 'better', then you throw FUD!
The distro you're complaining about is based on Ubuntu & is receives about 99% of it's updates at the exact same time as the Ubuntu LTS by default. Implying otherwise is complete & utter FUD. Also the thing you're complaining about with regard the the other small percentage of updates, well it still puts the user in control of updates & allows the most savvy among them to follow the exact same upgrade procedure that every IT department in the world follows. That procedure of course, is to test every vital system update before rolling it out to all machines.
I've seen upgrades break things on Windows, on FreeBSD & Ubuntu based distros, & on PCLinuxOS as well. Haven't you ever seen an upgrade cause a problem? The procedures of IT departments are well established & were done so with good reason. These procedures involve testing first & upgrade as similar configurations are confirmed good. It's a shame that not everyone has access to the level of upgrade control that It experts use; however, Linux Mint is offering the next best thing & making it available to all users. Do you really have the expertise needed to make such a negative judgement about the tools Mint is providing to users? Again, it feels like FUD to me.
74 • Manjaro (by Scuttlebuck on 2017-07-06 03:42:22 GMT from Nicaragua)
I quite like Manjaro or rather i did.....I used it quite a lot for a few years..and really couldnt fault it, like @38 above i used Openbox it was a official supported distro pretty much it had everything installed...then some idiot started pushing for it to be pretty much empty and then it changed again for the worse, I tried a few community versions which most worked OK but seemed to run out of support from the community
I am a distro hopper and have been for many many years and i don't generally spend too much time putting stuff right when it fails ...but i had a few issues with Manjaro .. my sound went off , many programs would crash, and then somone changed synaptic which i used for touch pad for some other thing and I had no touchpad...and no one really had a workround for those who had issues. that was it for Manjaro.......I do miss the AUR even though a lot of packages i ever wanted stopped being maintained or a dependency wasnt....
I don't miss the Arch forum which i joined many moons ago when i installed Arch...never felt like anyone really wanted to help some would but it was RTFM and you should try a different distro..
75 • @ 73 (by OstroL on 2017-07-06 06:37:45 GMT from Poland)
"however, Linux Mint is offering the next best thing..."
Well, there'd always some die-hard Mint lover defending his beloved distro. That's his right.
But, Ubuntu LTS and its official LTS derivatives are much better than this Mint. After all 99% is not 100%, is it?
76 • @OstoL. #47 (by dragonmouth on 2017-07-06 13:08:04 GMT from United States)
"Here's what Arch Linux say,"
What they say and what may actually be happening are two entirely different things. You, of all people, should realize this. All communist countries claimed that they were 'People's Democracies'. Were they?!
You have the chutzpah to make fun of Mint users defending their distro when you blindly belie Arch's self-serving propaganda.
77 • @76 (by OstroL on 2017-07-06 14:19:02 GMT from Poland)
"What they say and what may actually be happening are two entirely different things. You, of all people, should realize this. All communist countries claimed that they were 'People's Democracies'. Were they?!"
Are you saying this, because I'm from Poland?
Just a hour go, your democratically elected president was here and praised Poland for being tough enough to kick the commies out.
Anyway, Ubuntu and its official derivatives are much better than this Mint.
Arch is pretty good, and you own your computer, so what you install is yours, not any forum mods of any forum.
78 • @OsTroll: Boring repetition (by curious on 2017-07-06 14:43:32 GMT from Germany)
Constant repetition of
"Ubuntu is better than Mint" (because it is better than Mint)
does not make this statement true. Why this strange obsession with Ubuntu versus Mint, anyway?
I don't see you constantly claiming the equivalent:
- Debian stable is better than SolydXK or MX or ...
- Gentoo is better than Calculate
- Fedora and Redhat are better than Korora or Mageia or PCLinuxOS or ...
- Arch is better than Antergos or ...
If you were really serious, you would also claim:
Debian is better than Ubuntu, and especially
LFS is better than ANY of the other distros.
You do realize that all this is absurd, don't you?
79 • @68 (by Justin on 2017-07-06 15:04:55 GMT from United States)
Installing a new OS on a Raspberry Pi is very easy... you dd an image to an SD card. Most releases come that way. Why? Normal installs take *forever* otherwise. I once imaged Raspian and then tried to install Retro Arch on it. After several hours of apt-get running, it finally finished (and of course, it didn't work). Alternately, when I discovered Lakka here on DW, I downloaded their image, used dd on my card, and voila, everything worked very quickly.
So, most distributions that have been set up for the Raspberry Pi will be easy to install, but if you want to do updates or roll-your-own on the Pi, expect it to take a lot of time. There's probably a way to do it on a PC and then transfer it over. Given that all the hardware is the same and that you need binary blobs anyway to start the board, it's not really necessary to do another type of install.
80 • @ 77 (by lenn on 2017-07-06 15:15:23 GMT from Canada)
I understood the irony behind 'democratically elected president' without naming the guy. It appears that in some democracies, the majority vote is not exactly considered democratic. 3 million+ votes doesn't appear to be good enough for my neighbour.
One advice though, don't mention Mint negatively here, even if you know the truth, for some diehards would go bonkers.
81 • @70, @74 (by Justin on 2017-07-06 15:24:25 GMT from United States)
It is great to have LTS versions and other distributions for the reasons you gave, namely my computer worked fine until someone changed something I don't like. For me, that's Firefox dropping ALSA support and the ability to re-enable it during compilation. I've tried getting Pulse Audio started on my netbook to play YouTube again, but it just doesn't work. I get frustrated with it, too, since that's the primary thing I use the netbook for. Using AUR to get the ESR Firefox doesn't really help since it's not being compiled; it pulls the pre-built binary from Mozilla (who doesn't like ALSA anymore, nor do the 5 users from their statistics that prompted the change).
I'm considering another browser like maybe Opera, but the point is, once you start deviating from the developer or the distro, then you have hard times. That's why I love having diversity in browser, in inits, and in distros. I want options, even if I don't use them all, I want them there because someday I need them.
82 • Comparing Distributions (by Winchester on 2017-07-06 15:32:53 GMT from United States)
To me, Mint is basically equal to Ubuntu. Not better,not worse. The only differences are the desktop user interfaces (although Cinnamon and Mate can be used in both) , the default installed applications, the forked "X-Apps" and the Mint Update Manager which favors system stability a little bit more than the newest updated software as has been discussed here multiple times. What else of any consequence ??
I don't really like either one compared to PclinuxOS , the Gentoo family, Porteus Desktop, or to SUSE Tumbleweed.
If I had to choose an operating system from the Ubuntu family,without spending the time adjusting a base Ubuntu LTS to my liking,I would probably go with Peppermint or Ultimate Edition Mate LTS .
Honestly,Alpine Linux .... when it had XFCE as its default desktop,was in many ways the best distribution I have ever used .... except for the deal-breaker which for me was the limited selection of software and no audio output unless logged into the root account. Alpine XFCE was the fastest,most responsive operating system I have ever used. It would be nice if Alpine one day becomes a rolling distribution with more available software in its repositories.
83 • BS (by sydneyj on 2017-07-06 17:19:29 GMT from United States)
@80 It seems we found out about what you know of "the truth" from your post @25.
84 • alpine and salix (by nano-me on 2017-07-06 18:47:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
@82 I like the idea of Alpine Linux, with its stance on security, but its concessions to being usable on the desktop are too limiting for me.
In contrast, I just installed, Salix Linux starting from the XFCE4 Live ISO. This is an easy way into Slackware, with the addition of dependency resolution with slapt-get [modeled on Debian's apt-get] for the Salix repositories [the full Slackware repos are also available]. I was surprised how few barriers there were to creating my preferred "custom" Openbox desktop .
85 • Ubuntu Die-Hards (by M.Z. on 2017-07-06 19:38:41 GMT from United States)
@75
"Well, there'd always some die-hard Mint lover defending his beloved distro. That's his right.
But, Ubuntu LTS and its official LTS derivatives are much better than this Mint. After all 99% is not 100%, is it?"
I find the comments about 'die hard Mint lover' very ironic given the total depth of your reasoning about 'Ubuntu is Always Better Than Mint! Why, Because! Also Because Numbers!' Did I not give a rational & reasonable explanation of the Mint update policy & why it might be better for some users? If you think Ubuntu is better for you that's fine, but again I've see Ubuntu based systems have serious issues after updates & FreeBSD & Windows systems too for that matter.
I have 2 Mint Debian based systems on 2 different computers & both have a total of about 5 updates that are held & not patched; however, I've applied all security & kernel related updates & have noticed zero problems with either systems. What does patching for the sake of patching really get me or the average users that Mint is designed to serve? There is clearly no security benefit given which updates I've applied, & there seem to be no stability or other benefits either. If the two systems were at least somewhat similar I'd apply updates to one, then apply to the other after checking things out, like actual IT people do. From what I understand this is the ideal way to do things & if I had more similar hardware it would be very easy to do under Mint.
Is there a clear advantage for all users applying such updates blindly, even if there are no security benefits? By all means tell me _Why_ you think applying updates for non security bugs I don't notice is good for me & the average users Mint is targeted toward. If you can't come up with an actual reason then you are clearly the die-hard you accuse others of being.
@80
"One advice though, don't mention Mint negatively here, even if you know the truth, for some diehards would go bonkers"
Again, who has an actual rational explanation for their position? You are also free to tell us all why the Ubuntu update policy is better for everyone, rather than the policy that looks more like what actual IT departments do. You could have a good reason for why the Ubuntu policy is better for you, or a good explanation why its better for everyone, or you could be a bonkers die-hard if we believe your line of reasoning. Of course if you just like Ubuntu better that's also fine, but then why engage in the name calling?
86 • @ 85 (by OstroL on 2017-07-06 20:35:26 GMT from Poland)
"I find the comments about 'die hard Mint lover' very ironic given the total depth of your reasoning about 'Ubuntu is Always Better Than Mint! Why, Because! Also Because Numbers!' Did I not give a rational & reasonable explanation of the Mint update policy & why it might be better for some users? If you think Ubuntu is better for you that's fine, but again I've see Ubuntu based systems have serious issues after updates... "
Well, otherwise, Mint won't be based on Ubuntu, would it?
Oh, I don't care two bits about Mint update policy. I don't and won't use Mint. I like the Ubuntu update policy, if there is one. My system is Ubuntu "Testing" + Openbox. It hadn't seen a breakage for so long. It gets upgrades everyday. So, the base is good.
A desktop environment with fixed dependencies might get into problems after an upgrade, but I don't have one. Good day!
87 • @25 Feliz installer (by damech on 2017-07-06 21:51:43 GMT from United States)
Thank you, lenn for pointing me to Feliz installer. It installed Arch Linux in a breeze. I would've never installed Arch Linux through CLI. Thank you, Elizabeth Mills.
88 • @ 87 and @ 63 Archbox (by macior on 2017-07-07 19:39:31 GMT from United States)
Like you, I wouldn't have tried to install Arch Linux the Arch way. I tried the other distro mentioned here, Archbox. https://archbox-linux.github.io Took about 6 minutes to install it. I got myself a beautiful vanilla Arch Linux with some applications, even with deepin screenshot installed in it. Manjaro's Pamac was also there. Pamac is like Synaptic in Debian. I can install new apps easily and upgrade the system regularly. Finally I have a vanilla Arch Linux system. I'm grateful to Archbox creator. Maybe Distrowatch would make review of this distro.
89 • ArchBang (by gekxxx on 2017-07-07 21:24:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
yesterday down. But today again on the move. What happened?
90 • Redcore Linux (by Slug on 2017-07-08 10:26:49 GMT from United States)
Is there a way to download Redcore Linux? I couldn't find it on the website.
91 • Redcore Linux (by Somewhat Reticent on 2017-07-08 12:24:22 GMT from United States)
@90 - Download - open repository - *.iso (in new tab/window)
or http://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/redcorelinux/iso/
Note - to set timezone, change symlink:
su
ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/{region}/{zone} /etc/newtime && mv -Tf /etc/newtime /etc/localtime
92 • Redcore linux (by Doug M on 2017-07-08 14:41:00 GMT from United States)
Redcore linux is great. The only problem I had was with wireless.
I could see my network in the list, but no matter what I did I could not access it.
Till I found this page in the Archwiki.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Connman
Hopefully your wireless will just work, but if not.
Number of Comments: 92
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CPUBuilders Linux
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