| DistroWatch Weekly
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
(Tips this week: 0, value: US$0.00)
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Command line (by Linuxista on 2017-06-19 00:41:15 GMT from United States) |
I understand the idea that for the linux on the desktop to be successful, the measure of user friendliness is that it should be unnecessary to use the command line. The longer I use linux, however, the more I've come to prefer it. All things being equal if I can get something done there, I'd rather do it in a terminal than open a gui, to the point that I can actually imagine (not yet realistically) having a system with no graphical display at all.
The command line is awesome. The more one learns on it, the more freeing it is in so many ways. In fact, that's how I get around on Macs, whose graphical interface I find unintuitive and foreign. But the command line on a Mac is a very familiar place where I can get things done.
The point is that, rather the command line being a mark of shame for Linux on the desktop and something that is marked for elimination, it should be touted as an additional asset. And GNU/Linux arguably has the best cli tools of any OS.
2 • Commandline (by Scuttlebuck on 2017-06-19 02:16:45 GMT from Nicaragua)
I still use the command line quite a bit though not as often as i used to ...
I have used a lot of different distros over the years and whilst some things have stayed pretty much the same some things are a bit different and i must e getting old i forget some commands then spend too long trying to find what i need ...
all updates and installations removals etc i will always use command line
3 • All the GUI buttons in Linux just wrapper of command line anyways :P (by BeGo on 2017-06-19 02:38:21 GMT from Indonesia)
And, it dependent on the task in hand. Many task elegantly achieved by GUI click, install, update, etc, cron, but not all,
For adding PPA or response automation, for example, command line work best. :)
4 • command-line (by John (from Australia) on 2017-06-19 04:37:05 GMT from Australia)
It seems to me there is a natural progression - start with pointing and clicking, then move on to the command-line.
I like to use the following analogy: when we're small and don't have much grasp of language, we indicate what we want by pointing. Then as we develop better language skills, we can explain what we want with sequences of words, and we grow out of the need to point.
5 • command line (by Hoos on 2017-06-19 05:17:05 GMT from Singapore)
Well, while I much prefer to initiate system upgrades using command line, I find it more convenient to use a GUI package manager if I just want to remove or install individual packages.
And if I can open a file manager as root in order to manage files or edit text files that way, so much the better. I'm not keen on using command line for that if I don't have to.
6 • command-line fu (by Semiarticulate on 2017-06-19 05:51:44 GMT from United States)
If it wasn't for web browsing, Tmux would be my 'desktop' of choice. Although, I have been known to frequently do something like this:
links2 -g distrowatch.com
7 • CLI, GUI, we all … (by FOSSilizing Dinosaur on 2017-06-19 06:04:37 GMT from United States)
I used command-line before a GUI was available, and appreciate being able to produce or modify simple plain-text scripts.
A good GUI means I can avoid syntax errors and typos; subtleties should be available through "advanced" options. It should allow me to focus on the task at hand, and envision my interaction through appropriate abstraction.
When a program is unfamiliar, point-and-click makes basic usage accessible; once proficient, shifty keystrokes provide for greater productivity.
These things were researched thoroughly decades ago; unfortunately the interests of users are rarely given top priority, as UI design is most often considered a method of manipulation: "Your call is very important …"
8 • Command Line (by Sondar on 2017-06-19 07:30:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
In the olden days it was all CLI (excepting the 'turtle', of course) because it was all DOS commands, multi-tasking hadn't been invented. It wasn't necessary to be a professor of IT to type in commands on the line. Problem was that one had to issue a save/stop/exit command and start something else. Now we can open as many tabs, windows, virtual consoles, etc. as our system can tolerate and switch between them. Think it's called 'progress'?! We are already into thought-control and direct wiring into the brain (very successful for quadriplegics). Will we move towards brain augmentation and control by brain-embedded devices? Would certainly avoid bumping into street-zombies with eyes/ears fix on little glowing boxes...
9 • Command Line (by Alan on 2017-06-19 07:47:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
what is interesting is how PowerShell on windows systems has become more and more popular with systems admins, DBAs etc, to run scripts to perform maintenance tasks, Active directory work and so on as it does the regular traditional scripts as well as enhanced stuff using .net.
Worth playing with in Linux as it really is very powerful, as files etc become objects, you can often get the info you want on a file in a simple command rather than having to use several bash commands together :)
10 • Command line -- Gui (by OstroL on 2017-06-19 07:51:52 GMT from United States)
Command line to update, upgrade, add a ppa etc, file manager (gui) to change the text files. Even though I mostly use nano to edit text files, text editor Geany is a very valuable gui app. Midnight Commander (MC) is still the best app, the TUI over the terminal, best of both worlds. MC was inspired by Norton Commander (NC) of the long forgotten Windows 2.0 days.
Not everyone is good at command line, so GUI is a necessity for the majority.
11 • cli / GUI (by Romane on 2017-06-19 08:29:42 GMT from Australia)
None of the option really suited my choices in the survey. For me, it depends on the situation. If I can do it with a GUI, that's the way I go. Yet, often enough, I find myself at the command line for simple things. Mainly running small single-purpose bash-scripts I wrote for some very specific simple and small tasks. My server is run from the command line, but sometimes it is just easier to walk into the room, squat on the floor, turn on the screen and use something from the GUI (Xfce).
But yeah, I guess mostly GUI.
12 • CLI (by Dave Postles on 2017-06-19 09:17:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Still prefer it for dd and ftp.
13 • cli (by whomever on 2017-06-19 09:55:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ever since I began using linux 17 years ago with mandrake the cli needed to be used. I see that over time little has changed. I burn cds and dvds using the command line, I ftp, dd, rsync, nc and even have my own little scripts run via the command line. At least on desktop and laptop and rpi. Android even though linux has pretty much attempted to limited the user from doing that though.
14 • Nitrux (by Winchester on 2017-06-19 10:39:24 GMT from United States)
What system is Nitrux based on?? Or is it an independent distribution??
15 • @14 (by NT on 2017-06-19 11:31:48 GMT from France)
It's based on Ubuntu. I like Nomad so far, overall it looks promising, but not yet stable...
16 • Command Line (by Geo on 2017-06-19 13:17:27 GMT from Canada)
I've been forced against my will to do it since he 80s.
There is no valid reason for it.
It is necessary because interface designers are just too damned lazy.
It is just a way to keep Linux for elitist jerks.
17 • command line (by bison on 2017-06-19 14:22:02 GMT from United States)
I spend most of my time programming with gcc, python, perl, vim, make, etc., so I couldn't do much without a CLI. The only graphical apps I use on a regular basis are Chromium, Evolution, VLC and the GIMP. Oh... and my number one graphical app: gnome-terminal. :)
18 • For those who are not "playing" (by FOSSilizing Dinosaur on 2017-06-19 14:33:40 GMT from United States)
@9 PowerShell - open-sourced (MIT) cross-platform (Debian/Ubuntu, CentOS/RHEL, OSX, Windows) CLI(bash).NETcore (not just Mono),
leveraging Open-Source for Microsoft world domination\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ server management.
For decades some insist on being dragged (kicking and screaming) to the wisdom and elegance of Rexx (originally from IBM…).
@17 You may also want to consider mpv.
19 • Command line (by John on 2017-06-19 15:10:31 GMT from United States)
I wonder how long it will be until Android gives its user's a command line?
And I wonder when a cheap Tracfone will be hacked so I can send and receive IP packets with it?
And I wonder if anyone still uses Baudot?
Add your own to this list!!!
Lots of fun :).
20 • Command Line Poll (by cykodrone on 2017-06-19 15:48:08 GMT from Canada)
I voted 'a little', I occasionally have to run commands to fix or install something, other than that, it's mostly GUI for me.
21 • Debian 9 bugged (by LorenzoC on 2017-06-19 16:17:38 GMT from Italy)
I tried to upgrade from Debian 8 and making a "clean" install, there are tons of bugs in Debian 9, like USB dongles not working while the kernel spits cryptic and useless errors, CDs that cannot be unmounted either accessed, weird Networkmanager behavior and so on.
So much for an "extra-stable" distro, years of development and testing for this?.
Regression translates in depression.
22 • Beauty of Linux (by Doug on 2017-06-19 16:24:37 GMT from United States)
Before complaining about the designers laziness, why don't you learn how to make a gui tool.
I am sure there are books/websites out there where you can learn how to do something like that.
That is the beauty of linux, you have the freedom to do something about something you don't like.
23 • Command line and GUI (by Vakkotaur on 2017-06-19 16:37:58 GMT from United States)
I am quite fond of the GUI... but some things just seem inherently easier or more precise via command line. I am fairly sure there is a nice GUI search tool and it likely works fairly well. But I still find I use $find before even considering such a thing. And I arrived at Linux from Windows and was quite pleased to discover KDE and then Xfce (and even icewm at times) rather than the crazy idea (but was still somehow there) that Linux was nothing but command line.
Should the command line be a requirement? NO!
Should it be a readily available option? Oh, yes!
Having a backup system is good. Sometimes the command line is the backup to the GUI.
24 • Command Line (by Steve on 2017-06-19 17:23:32 GMT from United States)
Give me a command line any day. Sure I used ms windows v1 in the 80's but that was mostly a gimmick and not very functional. My day job at the time had me programming in COBOL on a mainframe using VT100 terminals... and I loved it. When I started using CDE on Solaris boxes in the 90's (my first decent GUI desktop) I quickly discovered the best feature of a GUI was that I could open up multiple terminal windows (with proper scrolling even) for command line access. I'm still convinced that is the best use of a GUI today. Manipulating and displaying images and video does come a close second.
But then I started with computers in the 70's and most of my early interfaces were switches on the front panel and printer terminals (like teletypes and such). A command line on glass tube was a huge improvement (and saved a ton of paper). X Window and it's derivatives and copy cats were still a ways off back then.
GUI's hide the complexity and isolate users from the real system. That's fine for someone that wants to operate a toaster, or browse the web, but not for someone who wants to get the best they can from a system. Knowing how to point and click makes you a user, maybe even a competent one. Using a command line and knowing how the thing actually works make you a knowledgeable, skilled and (dare I say) power user. Besides, GUI's are fine for workstations but are just a waste resources on a server. Why spend memory and processing power on an interface that is so little used on a server and gets in the way of accessing the full potential of a system? The servers I've worked with (UNIX/Linux/BSD) have all been headless (after initial install) so a command line is always the most efficient interface ....now get of my lawn! 8^)
25 • Command Line (by Rev_Don on 2017-06-19 17:27:00 GMT from United States)
I only use the command line when it is the ONLY way to do something. This isn't 1977 so we shouldn't need to use it for everything.
26 • Debian 9 (by bison on 2017-06-19 17:54:05 GMT from United States)
@21 Perhaps you have a hardware compatibility issue, or just a bad download. I hesitate to say it, but... it's working for me.
27 • Command Line (by Basil Fernie on 2017-06-19 19:28:24 GMT from South Africa)
Although I clicked on "a little", that's not quite true. Every time I boot up, the fist thing I do is run a terminal and hit the up-arrow (maybe more than once), then Enter.
The command I run looks like this:
sudo synclient touchpadoff=1
If for some reason I really need the touchpad facilities, I run the same command, with the 1 changed to 0.
28 • Debian 9 bugged (by LorenzoC on 2017-06-19 19:58:19 GMT from Italy)
Like I already said, I tried upgrading from 8 to 9 and installing from the Netinstall CD.
Yes, there is some "hardware compatibility issue", meaning the same hardware that worked well with 8 does not work with 9. I would call it a "bug" or a "regression", you can call it "a feature".
It is annoying because you don't get a message like "sorry, it doesn't work with 9", you install the driver, the thing seems to work but nope, it doesn't. You look in the log and there are pages of "kernel: USB 3 - 1 - xyxkr - hjkkhj - USB err 2" which you cannot find anywhere. Surely somebody from kernel development or people who maintain the driver (if anybody does) could maybe understand the issue but it is way above my simple user level. Or maybe it depends on systemd or who knows. Another sad thing is I quit reporting bugs because either nobody cares or you are asked to debug them yourself.
The fact is the only hardware that matters is the common and recent one, like graphic cards. The less popular or the older the hardware gets, the less interest in addressing "compatibility issues". It is depressing when you face the option of trashing your hardware or staying with an obsolete distro version for ever.
On a side note, besides regressions, upgrading a "regular desktop" from 8 to 9 results in some mess with "obsolete" packages, the system somehow works but I don't know why Debian documentation tells you can upgrade like the procedure has been carefully engineered, instead of just being "apt-get and prey" or "apt-get and don't touch".
29 • Robolinux, again (by Basil Fernie on 2017-06-19 20:12:24 GMT from South Africa)
I do not like to be thwarted by software, and so resumed perennial efforts to get RL working. Downloaded 8.8.1 MATE for 64bits and promptly ran into the usual sort of nonsense. Thought forensically for a while, checked the MD5sum of the .iso (it was fine) and burned ANOTHER dvd with xfburn, this time running on MX16.1 (no, I don't know whether that was important) BUT at the lowest possible speed (3x). Voila! At last I was treated to the fullscreen version of the scene that had reminded me so many times of 9/11.
Wandered around the scenery for a while and noted archaic versions of kernel and LibreOffice. Fair enough, if you're building a distro on Debian Stable while you do exciting things with complicated impenetrable (?) VMs you don't want to introduce possible hassles by bunging in a (much) more recent kernel, but surely they could package LO220.127.116.11, if I have it right, as the New Stable. (I run bleeding edge Fresh LO versions invariably, and have only regretted it, briefly be it said, once in several years, so I don't pay much attention to the exact version number for Stable).
What did shock me was that RL couldn't read any of my ext4 partitions, and not even my fat32 SD card. Maybe you have to pay for that?
Maybe not. I went back to my archives and (very slowly) burned a DVD with Robolinux 8.3. It booted happily into a live session and even read all my partitions. I should have waited for 8.8.2?
So I guess I'll just wait for Robolinux 9 to come out of hiding before deciding whether to give the distro as a whole a decent romp on one of the partitions I reserve for experimenting with likely-looking distros. At least, now I can get past the splash screen.
30 • Debian 9 (LXQt and Cinnamon) (by scootergrisen on 2017-06-19 20:26:17 GMT from Denmark)
Are there any way to comment on what is being written for at given distribution or is this the place?
Like for the Debian 9 released it says LXQt 0.11.
But during installation there is no LXQt.
But there is Cinnamon which is not mentioned.
31 • Command line (by Pat Menendez on 2017-06-19 21:37:19 GMT from Canada)
If you have ever used the Mandriva "Configure your computer" root GUI tools you have to wonder why no one ever ported them to Arch and Debian. They are so brilliant! This is the 21st century and using archaic command line for everything seems counter intuitive. 30 years ago I did quite a bit at the command line because at times there was no other way. Things progressed and GUI tools took over nearly all of the system tasks. If you lose your network or sound or other hardware issue being able to fix it with graphical tools is user friendly, modern, and where things should logically go. Especially if Linux wants to make an impact on the desktop they need to lose the testosterone masochistic mentality and work at making Linux accessible to more people. Having to go to the command line to build packages and install drivers (printers, scanners, etc.) or programs in 2017 is unacceptable! For the most part I see no problems with hardware detection with most distros running right out of the box. There are times though when things don't work (sound cards) and then if you have to go to the command line to try to fix it, format the drive and try something else, (something better). If over time you learn some commands and come to prefer doing things that way great! People who have used the proprietary OS have not had to use the command line since xp. That's a long time ago! With good graphical installers installing manually should be kept an option for those who want it as should an "advanced installer" but graphical is where we are today and the rest of the computing world has been for quite a while. I try Arch and fight with it and give up and go back to my Mandriva based PCLinuxOS. Arch is so fast and stable but unless you are a Linux geek it ends up being more hassle than it's worth. In 2017 having the graphical package managers fail is inexcusable! Spending 20 minutes building the packages to install and then telling you that some files are missing is inexcusable! Having to go to the command line to change file permissions in 2017 is ridiculous! This applies to everything that does not have GUI system tools. There are things Linux can do to make it more accessible to more people. Forcing the command line on them is not one of them. With GUI tools you can have someone who knows nothing about computers or Linux call you with a problem and walk them through the problems they are having. Giving them a page of cryptic commands to type in just doesn't work!!! Unless the goal is to keep Linux as a hobby OS for geeks.
32 • CLI or not? (by DaveW on 2017-06-19 22:26:08 GMT from United States)
I really don't understand why so many people are so exercised about using commands in a terminal vs. GUI programs. A person who just needs to do well-defined tasks is going to want and need a GUI interface as the quickest way to get the job done. Someone with more experience (geek, if you like) can frequently get his/her task done quicker from a terminal (CLI). The two tasks may or may not be the same. I really do not see where there is an argument over which is better, because neither is intrinsically better. People just use whatever is best for them.
You can say there is a need for a specific tool, such as the Mandriva "Configure" tool (@32), but that is a separate argument.
33 • CLI no instruct (by CLIpper on 2017-06-20 04:20:13 GMT from Australia)
The problem with the CLI is that it has been around for a long time - yet every time you boot up a distro you have to use the CLI from scratch. You would think that after all these years each distro would provide a list or database of commonly used CLI argument examples included as an easy way to get work done: like dd, archiving, installing, iso creation, etc. There must be many arguments that could simply be copied, pasted into the CLI, edited to fit your own system, then executed. But no. The best that is offered is to go back to basics and look up single commands in the man pages. This is strange when developers want people to easily learn and use linux.
34 • Fun with Distrowatch ... popularity of distros! (by Greg Zeng on 2017-06-20 05:53:15 GMT from Australia)
Distrowatch lists 74 nations, but only about half of them originate a Linux, Android or BSD type of distro. Some surprises. As expected USA=80 & Germany=24. Russia only 7? Isle of Mann has 5, but the big FIVE; for legal & tax reasons? The tiny nation of New Zealand originates four distros. Equals my home nation, Australia, which is about four times bigger in population size.
Of 291 active distributions, 119 have just one language. Distrowatch has 32 "foundation" (based on) distros. At least 133 of these are based on Debian. There seems to another 49 Debian-based and about another 78 Ubuntu-based distros, perhaps making about 260 Debian-based distributions, or about 90 % of the live Linux distributions? Then the 233 "Independent" distros seem very strange as well.
The managers among us like to anticipate future changes. Originally the application packages were source-code, or Java, DEB, RPM, & AppImage. All of these are cumbersome and not sustainable. So now we have the fight between Red Hat's Flatpak , or Ubuntu's Snappy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snappy_(package_manager). Does this signal the slow death of the RPM distros from both the server (where they dominate atm) to be replaced by Ubuntu?
35 • 34 • Fun with Distrowatch ... popularity of distros! correction. (by Greg Zeng on 2017-06-20 05:59:41 GMT from Australia)
New Zealand has a population of less than 5 million (2017). Australian has a population of 24 million; about five times the size; but similar race, education, etc stats. Unfortunately this extra post is the only way to awkwardly try to correct typos.
36 • Why Torrent Austrumi? (by Bill Lee on 2017-06-20 06:34:40 GMT from Canada)
Why is Austrumi in your Torrent feeds?
The home pages and forums go to out-of-date discussions from years ago.
It boots into Latvian and there is no obvious way to find the Voladyus (flag icon) to change into other languages.
Yes, it is small, fitting a basic set of programs into 300 Mbytes, but the website seems old and confused. (Older versions were only 50 Mbytes of code,expanding into 120 Mbytes of RAM.).
Even the Latvian (Latviešu) Wikipedia page is outdated.
Only the English Wikipedia article mentions the Voladyus (flag icon) note to change languages.
37 • @ 16 • Command Line (by OstroL on 2017-06-20 10:05:04 GMT from Poland)
The normal people don't use the command line, and don't even know such a thing exists. Even, if they knew, they'd never touch it. There are millions normal people around, who'd like to use a computer without knowing how its made or how that runs it (software) is made.
These normal people wouldn't know what is hardware or software, they only know there is a computer that runs programs, and those programs get their work or play done. They don't even know what the hell is GUI, all they know is a windows opens, and you click a button and things start working. And, that's all they want.
The other 2 "other OSs" know about that, so they have abundance of users all over the world.
Android from the Linux world knows about that too, so Android has more than 1.6 billion users and ~88% of the global mobile market. All this because of GUI, The graphical user interface.
The terminal must be there for the (thousands of) geeky users, but for the billions of normal users, the GUI should be there.
38 • Command Line vs GUI (by Zork on 2017-06-20 10:50:36 GMT from Australia)
I regularly use both the CLI and GUI...
Sometimes it is purely simpler and cleaner to do a task via the Command Line than to click 100 times on a GUI to achieve then same thing...
A lot of the power to do this comes from being able to understand pipes and redirection which can cause an average user a lot of "What the..." moments... Some of the command strings end up looking more like a weird line of techno-hieroglyphs...
While I have in the past created 100's of aliased BASH scripts to do this small task or that I find that unless its something I have to do regularly ( or want to run as a CRON job ) I just don't bother with the scripts anymore...
39 • Installation new debian stable stretch 9 (by sofiasmith on 2017-06-20 12:52:12 GMT from Spain)
I've installed on my new laptop Acer E15 i5 (uefi, secure boot on)
For wifi firmware = firmware-netinstall-amd.iso
Issues after install:
right mouse not worked (libinput?). installed synaptics and then ok.
flashplugin not available on official repo stretch contrib. (But it is available on wheezy, jessie, and sid).
According debian wiki, installed manually, and all is ok.
Everything works smooth.
40 • Debian 9 images (by bison on 2017-06-20 13:22:49 GMT from United States)
@21 Check out the discussion on LWN. New images are on the way that may solve the problems you are having.
41 • Command Line... (by Vukota on 2017-06-20 15:39:41 GMT from Serbia)
I regularly use command line, even though I prefer to have a lite, clean and intuitive GUI for most tasks. Problem is that lot of Linux (and Windows as well) GUI apps are neither light, clean, intuitive or can be well customized to meet all use cases.
I use command line when
- It is liter than most GUIs (memory/CPU wise).
- It is faster for some obscure requirements that requires different options or criteria
- I have specific requirement or need specific report or information
- I can script or chain commands to get faster and/or repetitive and/or custom result that I can potentially automate for the future execution.
- There is no (good) GUI alternative for the task at hand
- GUI or system is not stable enough.
42 • Debian 9 - two issues solved (by LorenzoC on 2017-06-20 15:56:41 GMT from Italy)
Here are two fixes I found for Debian 9 so far:
- The first is quite simple, you can't set your touchpad because somebody at Debian decided to replace the synaptic driver with a different one knowing it does not work. I don't want to know why, anyway you can "apt search synaptic" and install the old one.
- The issue with the USB dongle depends on the couple kernel - systemd as you read here:
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/, again, in the caveats there isn't anything like "this change will break compatibility with USB wifi adapters", anyway... at the end of the article there are three ways to restore Debian 8 behavior, in case you simply "don't like it", I choose to pass the kernel command via Grub config file and update-grub.
43 • Sharing (by Somewhat Reticent on 2017-06-20 16:33:31 GMT from United States)
@36 Once upon a time, torrents were the quickest download method for nearly everything; now this applies mostly to popular new material whose popularity is fickle. Torrents are still a more reliable method for downloading, well-suited for less-affluent areas with volatile connectivity.
44 • D'9 (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-06-20 16:34:37 GMT from United States)
@40 (Thankfully not a pay-to-play article) install-from-live workaround: use install-only image; new live images TBA.
In my experience, base distros are best left for people who want to help debug; especially first versions of new releases. (Several seem to have a tradition of including the same bugs in every '.0' release.) Most first-level derivatives deal with such obfuscations before release.
45 • Daily CLI use (by azuvil on 2017-06-20 17:46:45 GMT from United States)
I think the whole "user-friendliness demands the CLI be invisible" argument is a false dilemma, ultimately. The main problem comes down to the goals of the user defining user friendliness. If your only goals are to get on your computer, browse the web in a modern browser, read email on the web, and write a few things down in a word processor, then the term "user friendly" has a very limited meaning and fails to account for quite a lot of the work that is done by sysadmins, programmers, advanced users, and so on.
If you ask me, user friendliness (at least for an operating system) extends much further than that. When the fundamental principles of the operating system are simple, that is a form of user-friendliness. When the operating system has a standard interface like text streams and the user can easily work with them, that is user friendliness. When resources for extending and adapting the operating system and software to the user's needs are readily accessible, that is certainly user friendliness. When the user can navigate around their filesystem and everything is clearly labeled, that is user friendliness. When system documentation is as thorough as it needs to be, but no more so, that is user friendliness. When individual programs have a well-defined purpose and can interoperate well, that is user friendliness.
But none of those "criteria" require a desktop environment or anything that many people think of as "user friendly". All of them just require a little learning and practice.
So, more to the point, why do I prefer to use the CLI when possible? Not much to it, really. When programs that use the CLI are well-designed, they are often versatile, simple, and it's relatively easy to predict how they will work. If I need a feature that no default tool provides on its own, chances are that combining their functions will give me what I want. I also have to be a lot more thoughtful about what I'm doing, rather than mindlessly clicking until something happens. There may be a few more reasons, but I've probably droned on long enough.
And some last minute advocacy: learn a shell, and learn it well. You'll be glad you did.
46 • #36 Why Austrumi? (by Peter086 on 2017-06-20 18:30:23 GMT from Spain)
Well, besides it not asking for a system locale instead of jumping into latvian, I find it very fast AND visualy atractive, while having most of what a general purpose Live CD needs. Since I depend on the expertise of real gurus to get me out of trouble or get certain hardware working, I I use 'Buntu flavours (KDE for me, Xfce for older PC's)... but Austrumi has always been in my LiveCD shortlist, and now even more since Knoppix doesn't fit on a CD, Slitax is MIA or Slax just disappeared (sniff).
47 • love the little box... (by tom joad on 2017-06-20 20:57:00 GMT from Switzerland)
When I first started with Linux way back in the dark ages almost the first thing that endeared me to it was the terminal.
I started with an ms-dos machine in '86. Then everything was a DOS box and Dos commands. Gradually the wizards in Redmond took it all away. For folks like me we were just 'annoyed.' The gutted 'dos box' is one of the many reasons I walked away from the wizards in Redmond.
Here, I used the teminal at least once a day, most days way more than that.
Just this afternoon I used it extensively to resolve an issue with Tails 3.0 and Kingston USB drives. The issue was created at the behest of a Microsoft change at how USB drives are 'seen' by OS's. For a time Kingston was 'marking' some of their USB drives as 'non-removable.' Tails refused to install on those drives.
The terminal in Linux rocks! Please let it be so forever!
48 • @ 45 (by OstroL on 2017-06-20 21:01:23 GMT from Poland)
"And some last minute advocacy: learn a shell, and learn it well. You'll be glad you did."
I'd ask what for?
The ordinary user wants the computer to work, that is, get the programs the user needs to work. He might need to read something, write something, add a photo, listen to music, watch a video, browse the web and such day to day stuff. He doesn't want to tinker with the computer, but just want it to do what he wants it to do.
The normal (ordinary) users are in billions, while the geeky are just thousands.
The geeky, of course, can have their fun with the terminal, but the ordinary users don't even want to know about it. I'm sure, the non-geeky, ordinary users would even come here.
I have introduced Linux distros to quite a few non-geeky ordinary people, and they happily use the programs in those distros. If updating is needed, a program would ask them, and all they do is click ok, and the updating/upgrading goes behind the scenes, while they work/use their favourite programs.
Trying to teach them how to use the terminal is useless, and the only result would be their running away from Linux distros. We, who know how to use the terminal, must realise that there are billions out there, who want their computers to just work, and the modern Linux distros should cater to them, if we want them to like Linux. The geeky would always find a way to tinker around.
49 • @16 (by tom joad on 2017-06-20 21:06:18 GMT from Switzerland)
I beg your pardon!!! There aren't any "elitest jerks" here save one...(wink, wink, wink!)
50 • Debian 9 .... unpleasant surprise!!!! (by snowdust on 2017-06-20 21:44:03 GMT from Canada)
Like other DW posters, I was not able to install Debian 9. I downloaded the KDE & MATE versions, burned to CDs but couldn't install and got the following error message : "There was a problem reading data from the CDROM-Failed to copy file from CDROM". I also tried the netinstall ISO ... no dice! And yes, my hardware is rather recent, bought the desktop 3-1/2 years ago. Not holding my breath for new Debian 9 ISO images. Thanks to Distrowatch offering a large selection of distros.
51 • Spell Check Saves MIA POW Distro (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-06-20 22:32:31 GMT from United States)
@46 It's alive. Any search engine would fix your misspelling, as I just verified with StartPage.
For the interested, SliTaz is a great NON-systemdeadend, INDEPENDENT distro, not based on any other. Like Puppy it can run from RAM. You want rolling release. I think SliTaz just stopped emitting snapshots.
What always impressed me about Austrumi is running from RAM with full LibreOffice. Yes it must improve locale selection.
52 • GUI Stuff (by M.Z. on 2017-06-20 22:36:44 GMT from United States)
@16 & @42
So, aside from some occasional & not totally necessary use of the command line, I use the GUI almost exclusively on nearly all the distros I use. I'd hardly call most versions of Linux elitist or anti noob, except perhaps for certain things like Slackware & Arch, but those are not targeted towards most users. Aside from some comment I saw here somewhere between 21 - 23, most Linux users aren't elitist jerks either. Anyone with half a clue knows that something like 99% of most PC users can't be expected to program, & a similar proportion of Linux users shouldn't be expected to. That being said, a very occasional trip to the command line to reliably fix something can be a very good option for many users. The command line can be a powerful & useful tool in many situations, though I agree that it shouldn't be necessary for most users & I don't think it really is as long as you pick the right distro.
I will admit to having some problems with the GUI package manager in Fedora, & there are certain things I like to do on the command line. It really isn't totally necessary for most users though. I think most user friendly distros like Mint & PCLOS generally have very good GUI options, though all distros do seem leave the CLI as a very solid backup option just in case. I would recommend that most people that use Linux should try to learn a little about the command line, but some don't want to & I think it is okay too. Never using CLI is certainly a whole lot closer to being lazy than not learning to code, but command line is & should be optional for most users of desktop distros.
53 • Debian live images (by Jesse on 2017-06-20 23:04:36 GMT from Canada)
I think there is a bug in all the Live images which prevent them from installing. The bug does not exist on the plain installation CD and I don't think it is present on the DVD either. I think it is just the Live editions which cannot install.
54 • distro nationalities (by distro filosofer on 2017-06-21 03:09:42 GMT from Australia)
@34 Linux nationality: "USA=80 & Germany=24. Russia only 7? Isle of Mann has 5, but the big FIVE"
Russians seem to prefer alternative OSes: KolobriOS, ReactOS, KasperskyOS, and wasn't the gov developing its own secret OS? Maybe they see Linux as being part of a "Western freedom" philosophy thing, which would be supported by the fact that German and US cultures are big on "freedoms". Also tax avoidance via proxy locations (e.g., Isle of Mann) is also a Western thing.
But it is surprising that govs don't develop their own more secure OSes. Afterall, what do all their military forces use on their computers - surely not Windows?
55 • @48 (by azuvil on 2017-06-21 04:25:40 GMT from United States)
I see a serious problem with that argument, though. It tries to derive an "ought" from an "is". Sure, there are probably a lot more people out there who barely know how to use a computer. Is that the way it should remain? I also don't think the concept of a "normal" user is all that useful when the requirements and barriers for entry can be changed over time, and have changed considerably since home computers became something of a standard.
The other issue is this - how does anyone know how the normal user will ultimately react if said user doesn't have all the information they need to make a decision? No doubt, there are benefits to using a CLI, so why not explain what they are? Why not empower the user to solve their own problems instead of relying on other people, as a good working knowledge of the CLI can often allow you to do? More often than not, I would wager that it's simply assumed that the user isn't interested and development goes from there, but the reasons for keeping that status quo aren't all that compelling in my view.
There's at least one other audience I can think of that would benefit from more insight into what their operating system can really do: those who love to learn. Maybe it's a bit utopic, but that's one of the things I love about free software. You can start from nothing and learn as much as you want, ultimately using it however you want. If that's just another way of saying "geeky", then it's a pretty disappointing commentary on where the world is right now.
I hope none of that sounded disrespectful of you, just consider it a dissenting view.
56 • Debian live images (by Bushpilot on 2017-06-21 04:25:53 GMT from Canada)
I too have experienced a non install with debian live images. Hopefully this will be corrected soon.
57 • How to crack Linux, disclosed by Canonical. (by Greg Zeng on 2017-06-21 04:53:54 GMT from Australia)
Most Linux distributions rely on the source code released by "The Linux Foundation". Exceptions are those especially custom-compiled by proprietary brands. So it is NOT good news for most brand-names of Linux. The ONLY EXCEPTION are those distributions NOT based on Ubuntu. Protected from security faults then are Ubuntu-families, Mint, BlackLab, Lite, Neon, Peppermint, Zorin, etc.
This link is officially the latest Linux kernel updates from Ubuntu. It is released as soon as the source code of the kernels released by the "Linux Foundation".
Because it is independent of the Linux Foundation, it has the other Ubuntu-only features, including afaik the security updates mentioned in this news item. This suggests that the official source-codes released by the open-source Linux Foundation may NOT INCLUDE the security updates. Every non-Ubuntu-based distribution is therefore fragile; possibly open to these security faults. Pirates, crackers, national security agencies of all types should be rejoicing for Canonical's publicized discoveries.
58 • @ 50 about not being geeky (by OstroL on 2017-06-21 07:31:40 GMT from Poland)
Being geeky was never been bad. The word geek is not bad either.
Most people are not technical, and some don't want to be. All the people, I introduced Linux to had Windows in their laptops. Most of them wanted to check out the "program" I am using in my laptop. For them, it was a program, not an operating system. They liked the snappiness of the system.
They didn't care much about office suites and such like. They know about files, folders, copy & paste, so it was not that hard for them to switch. They'd try this new "program." Of course, they get hooked after a while. Its easy and its fast. They don't want usernames or passwords. They'd be happy, if the laptop would start, when they open the lid. They are not young any more.
Its hard to get the younger ones to move to Linux, for they are already hooked the "other" OS. Btw, the "other" OS calls itself a platform, rather than an OS.
59 • #54 (by osthisway on 2017-06-21 08:27:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Afterall, what do all their military forces use on their computers - surely not Windows?"
You will be surprised what they use.
60 • Austrumi Linux : Post # 36 (by Winchester on 2017-06-21 13:47:25 GMT from United States)
It is extremely easy to change the language in Austrumi Linux.
In the default FVWM theme after the system boots up,click on the gold colored shield menu icon,then click on the wrench and gear tools icon,then click on the light blue colored flag icon labeled Voludys. This brings up a selection of languages. Pick one and then the system logs you out. Log back in with the user name "austrumi" and the password "austrumi" without the quotation marks.
Their web-site is outdated but,the system is fast,can run entirely from RAM,is very light on resources,is based on Slackware-Current and Slackware 14.2 packages in addition to Austrumi packages,and is one of the only distributions that I know of with FVWM-Crystal as the default window manager.
61 • @58 (by azuvil on 2017-06-21 15:01:20 GMT from United States)
You know, I think that our opinions on the subject might be more similar than they appear.
For starters, I agree that the word "geeky" shouldn't have a negative connotation. It's unfortunate that it has been used that way.
I also see a great need for free software to be introduced early on, in the educational system if at all possible. The reason isn't so people can be indoctrinated or anything, but rather so they can learn early on that Windows and OSX aren't the only game in town. Maybe they'd even have to learn the distinction between "program" and "operating system", as you mentioned. At any rate, if a free operating system were given to students and they were encouraged to explore, ask questions, make and fix mistakes, and even read source code if they wanted to, there would at least be an increase in the level of technical awareness, if not technical competency.
And for what it's worth, I'm not saying that the free software system has to be a GNU/Linux variant, either, though I gather that widespread adoption isn't as important to other development communities (and that's their call).
62 • @61 (by OstroL on 2017-06-21 15:49:46 GMT from Poland)
The old people usually want something easy to work on, rather than how to tinker with it. I'm quite happy showing them Linux distros, actually one type of a distro. You see, the problem we have in the Linux world is too many distros, which can't work with each other. For us, it is an attribute, while for new users, especially from the "other" OSs, its a headache. They are used to one type covers all thinking. That's why I introduce them to one type of Linux distro.
Yes, the free open source software should be introduced to the young. It'd be nice, if the developers of Linux distros try hard to unify the distros somehow, rather than keeping to "my distro is the best" attitude. Simply, if my distro is the best, then the rest is inferior. How do we prove that practically all Linux distros are really the best to them?
Ubuntu: The leading operating system for PCs, IoT devices, servers...
Choose Freedom. Choose Fedora. Less setup, more innovation...
Arch Linux, a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple...
Get the most complete Linux distribution with openSUSE's latest regular-release version...
Debian -- The Universal Operating System...
And, it goes on.
Which one to choose? Which one to show?
63 • @62 (by azuvil on 2017-06-21 16:28:03 GMT from United States)
Yeah, that's definitely a quandary. There are practically as many distros as there are people these days.
Maybe the starting point isn't quite as important as understanding WHY the distros are different, and how superficial or deep many of those differences are. For all the benefits of Distrowatch, it's not a place I would send a complete newcomer unless they had some basic idea of what they were looking for.
Thinking back, if I had to start all over again, I probably would have appreciated a Slackware box with X running on startup and a bit more office software. It's a pretty complete and stable system out of the box, and the fact that you can learn as you go without always using a specific distro's way of doing things is really nice. That's not to say it doesn't have its own unique points, but the fact that it's kept relatively vanilla is appreciated by a lot of people.
Of course, I'm probably a bit weird in that respect. :P
64 • same problem can't install (by Debian LiveDVD iso on 2017-06-21 16:41:51 GMT from Canada)
same problem yesterday when I started the installation programme. Best chance another time....
65 • @63 (by OstroL on 2017-06-21 20:29:34 GMT from Poland)
My first PC was i286, not considering Atari or Sinclair. There was no such thing as pre-installed OS. Those were nice days for some of us, who were young then.
There was a long period of time, the computers were sold without a pre-installed OS, but that OS was available in the shop that sold the computer, so you got a computer with pre-installed OS. But that OS was not a valid one, but sort of a pirated one. Most of us buying the computer didn't even know the OS was pirated. And, didn't care.
The OS producer knew about this, but didn't take real action against that. You could buy that (pirated) OS, and all kinds of other (pirated) applications in any street shop in any part of the world. Some shops sold them absolutely legally and paid taxes to the government. The world got hooked.
From some time you can buy computers with pre-installed OS. All the user has to do is answer few questions, and you have a ready to work computer. These days such laptops are so cheap, no one is really worried about the installed OS. Everything just works. Boots up pretty fast.
It would be nice to have laptops with a pre-installed Linux distro. The ones available in the market today are damn expensive! Its cheaper to buy a Windows laptop and install the free Linux distro in it, that is, if you know how to install it. Most people don't know how to, and don't want to know. So, we need cheap laptops with ready to work Linux distro. The laptop should be much cheaper than the one with the proprietary OS.
We dual boot, or even uninstall the proprietary OS completely. There must be lot of new i3/Pentium4 laptops lying in warehouses. Not all laptops get sold. If someone or some group could buy them wholesale and install the newest Linux distro (OEM) in it, lot of people could buy a cheap, fully working open source laptop. Until such time, when there is an abundance of Linux laptops, we'd be just a bunch of command line geeks with elitist operating systems.
Of course, some Linux distro companies have their enterprise clients, whose workers would only use the computers, just the same way as the workers of companies that use computers with the "other" OSs. Those workers don't use a specific OS, but a computer at work. If the worker change the company, he'd just change the computer, the table. Interest in the OS/platform is practically none. They use one or few applications and that's it.
Right now, the Linux distro users are enthusiasts. If we need millions of normal people to use Linux, there should be cheap laptops with pre-installed Linux distros. The terminal should be there, of course, for the geeky, but the GUI apps must dominate, just as in the "other" OSs.
66 • @65 (by anticapitalista on 2017-06-21 20:44:31 GMT from Greece)
Linux is available in many distros for those who want to use a gui. At the same time there are plenty of distros that cater to cli users. Probably, most distros attempt to cater to both.
THAT is the beauty of Linux, unlike 'other' OSs.
67 • New Debian live images (by bison on 2017-06-21 22:07:16 GMT from United States)
@52 I see that all the live images have been updated to 9.0.1, so maybe some of the issues have been fixed.
68 • Quick and easy commands. (by Paleoflatus on 2017-06-21 22:20:37 GMT from Japan)
Is there any easier and better way of getting things done than hitting F12 (to bring up yakuake), then typing (perhaps su), df, apt-get (whatever), wget -Nc, dpkg -i, or a handful of similar commands?
69 • The US Military Prefers Red Hat Linux (by M.Z. on 2017-06-21 23:23:29 GMT from United States)
@54 & @59
"Afterall, what do all their military forces use on their computers - surely not Windows?"
From what I've read on the subject the US military often runs variations of Red Hat Linux. I believe I've heard some comments about the US Army using RHEL in mobile data centers, but more recently there was a article on a new super high tech warship that used Red Hat on IBM hardware to automate nearly everything. Some select bits from the article:
"...using off-the-shelf hardware—mostly IBM blade servers running Red Hat Linux—and putting it in a ruggedized server room.
Each CDS [Common Display System] system can run multiple Linux virtual machines atop LynuxWorx's LynxSecure, a separation kernel that has been implemented in CDS as a hypervisor. This allows the workstation to connect to various networks partitioned by security level and purpose."
From the article here:
It's also worth noting that the Red Hat website has reported use of their product by all US executive departments for several years. That is of course in addition to their extensive use by big fortune 500 companies & lots of other businesses as well. I think the NSA developed SELinux features were probably a contributing factor to the heavy use by US government agencies & the US military. Of course it also lends itself to tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theories, which is less helpful for business.
70 • @65 (by azuvil on 2017-06-22 01:03:40 GMT from United States)
Also not a bad idea. It makes me think about Chromebooks and how disappointed I was that Google seems to have missed a great chance. Maybe this will be an unpopular opinion, but knowing that they're Gentoo-based made me hopeful that they would increase exposure and awareness of free software. Instead we got machines that, by default, reveal nothing about how they operate, have to be re-worked a bit to get anything done locally, generally have little storage, and certainly don't discourage anyone from using locked-down proprietary plugins (which matters a lot to some of us).
Maybe others are just fine with all that, but I don't count it as a win of any kind.
71 • Moving from Debian 8 to 9 (by eco2geek on 2017-06-22 05:21:07 GMT from United States)
I'm happy to report that my upgrade (using the Internet) from Debian 8/KDE to 9 went fine. It did take a while (and it appears I have some old KDE 4.14 programs remaining to weed through).
The steps are pretty simple and straightforward, and someone has written them up here:
Also, new live images have gone up; they're now at version 9.0.1. Under "known issues with live images" on their download page for the ISOs --
-- it indicates that the "installation from the live image boot menu does not work" bug has been fixed. So if you tried before installing with 9.0.0, try again with 9.0.1!
72 • @ 70 Cheap laptops with pre-installed Linux (by OstroL on 2017-06-22 06:27:00 GMT from Poland)
There should be an exposure of Linux distros in computer shops (or any other shops), physical shops.
I lived in a country, where there are cluster of computer shops in every city, and they had laptops with Windows, and also laptops without an OS, which are much cheaper than the ones with the proprietary OS. But, these laptops were not without an OS, they either had Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Zorin in them. Anyone can play with them and check them out. The sellers knew how Linux distros work, and could show why they are better than the proprietary OS. All of them had the cube activated too.
Lot of young people move around these shops daily. They get to know that everything can be done in such Linux laptops, that all apps are free. You can do your school work without paying the monthly forced tribute. You also get to know that the laptop, the operating system in it and all the applications are yours forever, which is quite comforting.
How about your community start selling laptops with your excellent distro?
73 • Again on Debian 9 (by LorenzoC on 2017-06-22 07:15:19 GMT from Italy)
In Debian 9 (32bit- Mate) so far I got:
1. touchpad stopped working because of different/wrong driver being installed by default, on purpose (?). I had to install the synaptic driver.
2. USB WiFi adapter stopped working because Debian 9 implements a new way to map devices. This happens ONLY with "new" installations and does not with upgrades from 8. I had to edit Grub config file and force the kernel to ignore the new mapping method.
3. LibreOffice - Writer crashes silently while opening. Could not find any fix.
4. Abiword, which I tried instead of LibreOffice - Writer flickers when the focus is on the document. Could not find any fix.
Plus, I read Firefox will stay ESR on 9 (like on 8) because current releases require Rust which is not available on Debian. Any other browser is not recommended because lack of security fixes, but Chromium.
I don't know, it looks like you need to be a little masochist to use Debian.
74 • @68 quick and easy (by curious on 2017-06-22 08:13:48 GMT from Germany)
It all depends on how easily you can type (error-free), and how easily you can remember a load of mostly-cryptic commands.
I don't think that eitherone of either the GUI or the command line is "better" than the other. Both can be useful to different people in different situations - and a good operating system should provide both in such a way that they work well for the people that use them.
Traditionally (because of the Unix heritage), command-line support in Linux is very good. It is often the GUI that has problems or usability limitations - which is why it gets talked about more.
75 • @72 (by anticapitalista on 2017-06-22 10:31:34 GMT from Greece)
- Selling laptops with antiX?
Nice idea, but not likely to happen due to financial reasons.
76 • @75 (by OstroL on 2017-06-22 15:26:24 GMT from Poland)
Maybe start with 10 nos? There must be some warehouses there with loads of unsold laptops. Maybe i3s or Pentiums. You have been persistent, and Antix had become a highly respected distro. I'm sure there'd be buyers. Maybe a crowd funding effort? Maybe a list of buyers paying upfront? I'd love to see this working out!
77 • Debian 9 Upgrade (by Paul M on 2017-06-23 00:49:55 GMT from United States)
Just upgraded from Debian 8 to Debian 9 (MATE DE). Upgrade went fairly smooth, only had to upgrade & reinstall my VPN client manually.
Things I notice:
1) Pros: System seems slightly snappier/faster, fonts/type are sharper/clearer, internet video streams better (less lag), some audio buzzing sounds (heard through the speakers) that I had with Debian 8 are gone.
2) Cons: Desktop behavior shows some weird movement (shadowing?) when moving folders around the desktop. This seems like a regression.... I haven't seen anything like this since seeing LXDE do something along these lines ~5 years ago. Hmmm...
Also, free -m gives different memory usage vs the new MATE System Monitor. This could be due to a differing method of accounting for memory usage?
But, overall, it all seems to run pretty well...
78 • Debian 9 upgrade (by Bushpilot on 2017-06-23 04:44:58 GMT from Canada)
I have both Debian 8 and Debian 9 installed now for a few days. Cannot tell any difference in performance or visual attributes. No problems of any kind with the install or overall operation. Have been running Debian 8 since it was created and love it. Have also been running Antergos xfce and it too is performing well. Too may upgrades for my liking but it is still a great Linux distro and easier to install and configure than Debian.
Will stay with Deb 8 for now.
79 • Korporate Kash Kool-aid Kult Kidz Kontinue Killing Komputer Kulture (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-06-23 04:45:10 GMT from United States)
DoD and the Fortunately Connected 500 still run COBOL. Their F-35 "Turkey" and computerized USS Fitzgerald just spell quality in my book.
However size matters in a corporate welfare state. So measuring OS quality by balance sheet is clearly the right way.
And who can't love a stylish logo, even if all a trenchcoat and fedora connote since film noir is spycraft. Why don't tinfoil hatters like Daddy Torvalds get therapy and buy some iStuff?
80 • Debian 9 and its Discontents (by eco2geek on 2017-06-23 05:04:01 GMT from United States)
I'm running KDE. So far the one annoyance I've run into is that system notification sounds would come out at a volume level of 100%, no matter what the volume was set to before.
A Google search seems to indicate that a fix is to edit "/etc/pulse/daemon.conf", uncomment the "flat-volumes = yes" entry, and change the "yes" to "no". This does seem to work.
> it looks like you need to be a little masochist to use Debian.
This may be an explanation for why certain distributions that are _based on_ Debian are so popular.
81 • @ 80 (by lenn on 2017-06-23 13:29:15 GMT from Canada)
> it looks like you need to be a little masochist to use Debian.
This may be an explanation for why certain distributions that are _based on_ Debian are so popular.<<
Maybe because these Debian based distro developers had gone through the masochist phase, for others to stay normal.
82 • CLI (by Jordan on 2017-06-23 21:13:47 GMT from United States)
I used to use the command line in Windows, especially back in the Windows 98 days. Great way to untie knots the freaking OS would create at times.
Not needed so much with most linux distros.. but nice to have it. It seems to work better for updates in Manjaro than their gui update gizzy. Not needed at all in Solus, so far.
Of course, if one visits the forums of any linux distro it will be seen as the preferred way to move around and make things happen (or not happen) with various issues being dealt with.
83 • Comfort with the command line (by Trihexagonal on 2017-06-25 07:44:12 GMT from United States)
I have Eterm start from .xinitrc with my FreeBSD desktop and keep that terminal open at all times for easy access as I use it several times a day.
84 • Command line (by jymm on 2017-06-25 10:27:16 GMT from United States)
I seldom use the command line. I have a cheat sheet to copy and paste when I need to use the command line (mostly copied from the Distrowatch Package Management Cheat sheet page). I have gotten familiar enough to use update and upgrade, and use pkill without my cheat sheet.. Past that it is only if I find a command line tutorial for some software or PPA that I want to install.
I have found most things in Linux can be accomplished with a GUI and prefer that method. The reason i use update and upgrade command line is that it seems a bit faster than a GUI. I love Synaptic for most software installation. One reason Linux is great is you have the choice of command line or GUI.
85 • Other Secure OS Options (by M.Z. on 2017-06-25 21:56:35 GMT from United States)
Re #69 - @54 & @59
Not sure if anyone cares, but I ran into some info about Trusted Solaris & remembered hearing some info about it earlier. I wouldn't claim to know if it's any better that RHEL, or what options other companies like SUSE might have as an alternative, but I think it competes with RHEL in the secure OS space. Still from what little I know it seems that Red Hat is doing more in the secure OS space than most other players.
Number of Comments: 85
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
|• Issue 750 (2018-02-12): Solus 3, getting Deb packages upstream to Debian, NetBSD security update, elementary OS explores AppCentre changes|
|• Issue 749 (2018-02-05): Freespire 3 and Linspire 7.0, misunderstandings about Wayland, Xorg and Mir, Korora slows release schedule, Red Hat purchases CoreOS|
|• Issue 748 (2018-01-29): siduction 2018.1.0, SolydXK 32-bit editions, building an Ubuntu robot, desktop-friendly Debian options|
|• Issue 747 (2018-01-22): Ubuntu MATE 17.10, recovering open files, creating a new distribution, KDE focusing on Wayland features|
|• Issue 746 (2018-01-15): deepin 15.5, openSUSE's YaST improvements, new Ubuntu 17.10 media, details on Spectre and Meltdown bugs|
|• Issue 745 (2018-01-08): GhostBSD 11.1, Linspire and Freespire return, wide-spread CPU bugs patched, adding AppImage launchers to the application menu|
|• Issue 744 (2018-01-01): MX Linux 17, Ubuntu pulls media over BIOS bug, PureOS gets endorsed by the FSF, openSUSE plays with kernel boot splash screens|
|• Issue 743 (2017-12-18): Daphile 17.09, tools for rescuing files, Fedora Modular Server delayed, Sparky adds ARM support, Slax to better support wireless networking|
|• Issue 742 (2017-12-11): heads 0.3.1, improvements coming to Tails, Void tutorials, Ubuntu phasing out Python 2, manipulating images from the command line|
|• Issue 741 (2017-12-04): Pop!_OS 17.10, openSUSE Tumbleweed snapshots, installing Q4OS on a Windows partition, using the at command|
|• Issue 740 (2017-11-27): Artix Linux, Unity spin of Ubuntu, Nitrux swaps Snaps for AppImage, getting better battery life on Linux|
|• Issue 739 (2017-11-20): Fedora 27, cross-distro software ports, Ubuntu on Samsung phones, Red Hat supports ARM, Parabola continues 32-bit support|
|• Issue 738 (2017-11-13): SparkyLinux 5.1, rumours about spyware, Slax considers init software, Arch drops 32-bit packages, overview of LineageOS|
|• Issue 737 (2017-11-06): BeeFree OS 18.1.2, quick tips to fix common problems, Slax returning, Solus plans MATE and software management improvements|
|• Issue 736 (2017-10-30): Ubuntu 17.10, "what if" security questions, Linux Mint to support Flatpak, NetBSD kernel memory protection|
|• Issue 735 (2017-10-23): ArchLabs Minimo, building software with Ravenports, WPA security patch, Parabola creates OpenRC spin|
|• Issue 734 (2017-10-16): Star 1.0.1, running the Linux-libre kernel, Ubuntu MATE experiments with snaps, Debian releases new install media, Purism reaches funding goal|
|• Issue 733 (2017-10-09): KaOS 2017.09, 32-bit prematurely obsoleted, Qubes security features, IPFire updates Apache|
|• Issue 732 (2017-10-02): ClonOS, reducing Snap package size, Ubuntu dropping 32-bit Desktop, partitioning disks for ZFS|
|• Issue 731 (2017-09-25): BackSlash Linux Olaf, W3C adding DRM to web standards, Wayland support arrives in Mir, Debian experimenting with AppArmor|
|• Issue 730 (2017-09-18): Mageia 6, running a completely free OS, HAMMER2 file system in DragonFly BSD's installer, Manjaro to ship pre-installed on laptops|
|• Issue 729 (2017-09-11): Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, running Plex Media Server on a Raspberry Pi, Tails feature roadmap, a cross-platform ports build system|
|• Issue 728 (2017-09-04): Nitrux 1.0.2, SUSE creates new community repository, remote desktop tools for GNOME on Wayland, using Void source packages|
|• Issue 727 (2017-08-28): Cucumber Linux 1.0, using Flatpak vs Snap, GNOME previews Settings panel, SUSE reaffirms commitment to Btrfs|
|• Issue 726 (2017-08-21): Redcore Linux 1706, Solus adds Snap support, KaOS getting hardened kernel, rolling releases and BSD|
|• Issue 725 (2017-08-14): openSUSE 42.3, Debian considers Flatpak for backports, changes coming to Ubuntu 17.10, the state of gaming on Linux|
|• Issue 724 (2017-08-07): SwagArch 2017.06, Myths about Unity, Mir and Ubuntu Touch, Manjaro OpenRC becomes its own distro, Debian debates future of live ISOs|
|• Issue 723 (2017-07-31): UBOS 11, transferring packages between systems, Ubuntu MATE's HUD, GNUstep releases first update in seven years|
|• Issue 722 (2017-07-24): Calculate Linux 17.6, logging sudo usage, Remix OS discontinued, interview with Chris Lamb, Debian 9.1 released|
|• Issue 721 (2017-07-17): Fedora 26, finding source based distributions, installing DragonFly BSD using Orca, Yunit packages ported to Ubuntu 16.04|
|• Issue 720 (2017-07-10): Peppermint OS 8, gathering system information with osquery, new features coming to openSUSE, Tails fixes networking bug|
|• Issue 719 (2017-07-03): Manjaro 17.0.2, tracking ISO files, Ubuntu MATE unveils new features, Qubes tests Admin API, Fedora's Atomic Host gets new life cycle|
|• Issue 718 (2017-06-26): Debian 9, support for older hardware, Debian updates live media, Ubuntu's new networking tool, openSUSE gains MP3 support|
|• Issue 717 (2017-06-19): SharkLinux, combining commands in the shell, Debian 9 flavours released, OpenBSD improving kernel security, UBports releases first OTA update|
|• Issue 716 (2017-06-12): Slackel 7.0, Ubuntu working with GNOME on HiDPI, openSUSE 42.3 using rolling development model, exploring kernel blobs|
|• Issue 715 (2017-06-05): Devuan 1.0.0, answering questions on systemd, Linux Mint plans 18.2 beta, Yunit/Unity 8 ported to Debian|
|• Issue 714 (2017-05-29): Void, enabling Wake-on-LAN, Solus packages KDE, Debian 9 release date, Ubuntu automated bug reports|
|• Issue 713 (2017-05-22): ROSA Fresh R9, Fedora's new networking features, FreeBSD's Quarterly Report, UBports opens app store, Parsix to shut down, SELinux overview|
|• Issue 712 (2017-05-15): NixOS 17.03, Alpha Litebook running elementary OS, Canonical considers going public, Solus improves Bluetooth support|
|• Issue 711 (2017-05-08): 4MLinux 21.0, checking file system fragmentation, new Mint and Haiku features, pfSense roadmap, OpenBSD offers first syspatch updates|
|• Issue 710 (2017-05-01): TrueOS 2017-02-22, Debian ported to RISC-V, Halium to unify mobile GNU/Linux, Anbox runs Android apps on GNU/Linux, using ZFS on the root file system|
|• Issue 709 (2017-04-24): Ubuntu 17.04, Korora testing new software manager, Ubuntu migrates to Wayland, running Nix package manager on alternative distributions|
|• Issue 708 (2017-04-17): Maui Linux 17.03, Snaps run on Fedora, Void adopts Flatpak, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, Debian elects Project Leader|
|• Issue 707 (2017-04-10): PCLinuxOS 2017.03, Canonical stops Unity development, OpenBSD on a Raspberry Pi, setting up a VPN for privacy|
|• Issue 706 (2017-04-03): Super Grub2 Disk, Snap packages of deepin applications, Subgraph OS routes network traffic for one application, announcements from Linux Mint|
|• Issue 705 (2017-03-27): Minimal Linux Live, sharing control of the operating system, new KaOS features, Uplos32 provides 32-bit fork of PCLinuxOS|
|• Issue 704 (2017-03-20): ToarusOS 1.0.4, Linux Mint's security record, Debian starts Project Leader election, Ubuntu 12.04 reaches end-of-life|
|• Issue 703 (2017-03-13): SolydXK 201701, CloudReady, Solus announces new features, KDE Connect sends text messages from desktop, openSUSE's YaST module for Let's Encrypt|
|• Issue 702 (2017-03-06): Fatdog64 Linux, elementary OS bundled with new netbook, Haiku announces new features, security and the size of a distro's development team|
|• Issue 701 (2017-02-27): OBRevenge 2017.02, Mageia 6 delays, NetBSD reproducible builds, questions about swap space, trying to steam video on a Raspberry Pi|
|• Issue 700 (2017-02-20): RaspBSD, Debian replaces Icedove with Thunderbird, Fedora's licensing guidlines, tips for switching shells, finding battery charge, getting IP address and killing processes|
|• Issue 699 (2017-02-13): Clear Linux, GhostBSD network utility ported to FreeBSD, Ubuntu coming to Fairphone, elementary OS crowd funding an app store|
|• Full list of all issues|
|Random Distribution |
OviOS Linux is an independent, storage OS which combines open source technologies to provide a dedicated, performance-oriented storage system. The goal is to keep OviOS Linux a pure storage, appliance-like OS. It targets users and admins who need a stable out-of-the-box iSCSI, NFS, SMB and FTP server. The distribution features a special command line shell called "ovios shell" which strives to simplify system management.
|Tips, Tricks, Myths and Q&As |
|Questions and answers: System freezing while deleting files|
|Tips and tricks: Play nicely, drop secure shell sessions cleanly, check init's name|
|Questions and answers: Cleaning up the package cache|
|Tips and tricks: Keep terminal programs running, using the at command, reverse OpenSSH connections|
|Tips and tricks: Basename, for loop, dirname, aliases, bash history, xsel clipboard|
|Tips and tricks: Creating bootable USB drives with UNetbootin|
|Questions and answers: Troubleshooting waking-from-sleep on laptops|
|Tips and tricks: Package compression compared|
|Tips and tricks: Basename, for loop, dirname, aliases, bash history, xsel clipboard|
|Questions and answers: Security and potential malware in Linux distributions|
|More Tips & Tricks and Questions & Answers|