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1 • Pinebook & Pineboard (by Elcaset on 2017-05-15 00:07:02 GMT from United States)
Has anyone had a chance to try out a Pinebook GNU/Linux laptop, yet. Or a Pineboard?
2 • Linux pre-installed (by Tony on 2017-05-15 00:29:35 GMT from Bulgaria)
I plan to buy me a ChimpBox with PCLinuxOS pre-installed! Can't wait for owning one...
3 • Preinstall linux? not (by DaveW on 2017-05-15 00:45:10 GMT from United States)
I don't expect to buy a computer with linux already installed because I like to build mine. Then I just install whatever my preference is at the time. (That happens to be Mint right now.)
4 • Poll (by Vukota on 2017-05-15 00:49:14 GMT from Serbia)
There should have been fourth option:
- I will buy whatever is best for the budget, but still supports well Linux
Who cares about "preinstalled" Linux, when we usually replace it with a different distro sooner or later? Only thing that matters is that hardware is well supported by Linux.
5 • Poll (by brad on 2017-05-15 00:54:55 GMT from United States)
@4 - or, a fifth option: no OS installed.
I wouldn't mind installing Win10 *and* Linux(en) on the same machine, using only a license key for Win10 (if such a beast actually existed!)
6 • linux pre-installed (by AndrewL on 2017-05-15 00:55:27 GMT from Canada)
I build my own systems for desktops. Any future laptop I purchase will only be checked for linux compatibility rather than having a prerequisite of linux already installed.
7 • Preinstalled-No (by Bob on 2017-05-15 01:14:31 GMT from United States)
I don't buy new computers. I scrounge used parts to keep my current desktop systems running. I recently received a used Toshiba Satellite L505 laptop for free. It had an "upgraded W10" installed. I ran gparted to delete all the partitions, then ran DBAN just to zero everything out, and now it runs Xubuntu 16.04. Sweet!
8 • Linux preinstalled (by slick on 2017-05-15 01:21:24 GMT from United States)
Build my own box and run Devuan. Would be my guess that it would be either Ubuntu, Android or possibly openSUSE on a store bought machine with Linux.
Think it would be a good idea if folks sold computers without an operating system at a much reduced price and the buyer could install what they want.
No way would I have Ubuntu or Android on anything!
9 • Linux Pre-installed (by amar on 2017-05-15 01:27:33 GMT from India)
I use a 11 year old Dell Latitude and it runs just fine with Ubuntu Mate 16.04. I *had* to buy a Macbook Pro for my work stuff, and that completes my requirement for the next 3 to 5 years. I am not sure if a laptop would fit the need for a portable device when I am in the market for replacing my devices. Linux, yes, Laptop maybe not. Most of them come pre-installed with stock Ubuntu anyways- which I promptly replace with a distro of my choice.
10 • Pre-installed Linux (by Ista on 2017-05-15 02:08:29 GMT from United States)
I recently purchased a laptop. I spent a lot of time reviewing options from system76 and other vendors that offer linux pre-installed. I was disappointed by the number of negative reviews suggesting that systems with Linux pre-installed don't always use Linux-friendly components. In the end I went with a Lenovo T450. It came with windows, but who cares? I wiped it and installed ArchLinux, and everything works flawlessly, including wireless, trackpad, trackpoint, touchscreen, and even the fingerprint reader.
11 • computer with pre-installed linux (by Hoos on 2017-05-15 02:26:00 GMT from Singapore)
I am in fact at the moment exploring various businesses that offer laptops with Linux pre-installed. Of course I could get a laptop from any standard brand that comes with Windows, and then wipe it, but:
1. I hope to support the people who offer Linux on their machines
2. I don't really want my purchase of a Windows machine to add to the stats on the number of people buying and using Windows.
3. and even if Windows machines in some places might be cheaper than a no OS machine, I don't want to pay a "windows tax".
12 • NixOS (by tim on 2017-05-15 02:28:09 GMT from United States)
"The configuration of your entire system is described in one, compact file and it can be reproduced at will on any other machine"
"can easily go back. Essentially, you have an unlimited number of versions of the same distro"
The description(s) seem a bit misleading, or exaggerated. If you choose "generation 17" in the bootloader, any tweaks you made to your KDE prefs and the configuration files of each of the various installed apps during generation18..onward, those are lost/inaccessible to you, yes?
and, when bringing that "one compact configuration file" to another computer, you're faced with the time-consuming chore of remembering and again applying ALL those app/DE tweaks? Or, is the expectation that you have setup /home on an external mount... so will be "taking /home PLUS one compact system configuration file" to the other machine?
13 • Prefer No OS, 2nd post 5 (by BeGo on 2017-05-15 02:58:44 GMT from Indonesia)
I prefer No OS installed.
I shall install mine :)
Still, best OS for newcomer in Linux (without aspiration to dive deeper into Linux) is LXLE, Zorin, or Elementary OS. I dont mine one of them preinstalled in my new laptop. :)
14 • Linux/OS pre-installed ? (by LiuYan on 2017-05-15 03:35:21 GMT from China)
I didn't pick an option for this poll.
- As a normal user, I would like the pre-installed OS easy to use for my daily job/entertainment.
- As a experienced user, pre-installed OS is not important, I will reinstall a favorite one.
By the way, I believe that pre-installed Linux on computer is used to cut the costs
15 • Linux pre-installed? (by Mandatory on 2017-05-15 04:26:55 GMT from France)
My PRESENT computer had Linux pre-installed. I just bought a Raspberry Pi.
16 • Nix,Linux pre-installed, The Alpha Litebook, Canonical (by edcoolio on 2017-05-15 04:28:24 GMT from United States)
LINUX PRE-INSTALLED:
If a manufacturer wants to make a really nice laptop and, like @14 said, cut some costs, I'm all for that. I don't like to pay the Windows Tax if I can help it. Regarding which distro is on the box, I do not care. I'm going to wipe it the second I get it. I wipe Windows 10 machines when I get them, I would do the same with a Linux box. Why? Security. I'm an untrusting SOB and we have all seen what hardware companies love to do with spamware, spyware, and corporate garbage applications on both smartphones and computers. Lenovo anyone? No thank you.
The only thing I care about is if the box has common, well vetted hardware that will be recognized and run smoothly once I choose my OS. Beyond that, it does not matter to anyone except a true "basic knowledge" end user, and I highly doubt they are going to buy anything that doesn't have the quad-square or sickly-sweet apple on the box.
NIX:
I'm sure it is fine. I'm sure it is nice. No graphical installer in this day and age?? That will be a huge problem for many and severely inhibit use of the distro. It may not be fair to say, but I believe that it is realistic. As for power users, don't worry, not to be left out, they are also alienated by this distro with a non-standard file system hierarchy. To each their own I suppose.
CANONICAL:
Well, the truth finally comes out. Canonical is going public and now they are beginning to overtly and publicly ignore the Linux community that built them up out of nothing. Yet again, maybe I'm being unfair, but I'll bet I'm not the only one. I'm not judging, just making an observation. After all, I wouldn't want to be a drain on Canonical's upcoming IPO...
ALPHA LITEBOOK:
I'm sure it is a nice device. I thought it might be so nice I went to their website.
I looked below, I looked above. I looked left, I looked right. I looked until my eyes were bereft of sight.
NO CPU SPEC. Nothing. It's a secret.
Reading the review, checking the price range, looking at the poorly made website with the giant black bar at the top, I'm guessing it is probably a Celeron N3050. A processor that is equal to (or slower) than a Core 2 Duo T5470 from 2009. In fact, the only real difference between the two is power consumption. Now, I could be (hopefully) wrong, but I see no information otherwise.
Having used a Celeron N3050 before, I can say with confidence that it is a processor that is painfully slow for the modern web browser. Chrome, Chromium, Firefox, etc. It doesn't matter. Just slow.
I'll keep my $249.00, thank you.
17 • linux preinstalled (by marame on 2017-05-15 05:59:47 GMT from Finland)
My computers are selfmade and -repaired. So I install Linux myself. A hobby and education and cheap. A couple Windows (10 and XP) and one Apple Mac Mini have OS preinstalled.
18 • What exactly is the market for Linux pre-installed pc? (by Viktor on 2017-05-15 06:39:36 GMT from France)
There are some fine laptops nettops out there but regarding laptops you always get more value for money by installing your *nix yourself. I recently bought a Zen book and got a refund for overwriting the w10 OS (eur75 if you are wondering). Asus is one of the few to properly abide by the law of allowing you to chose your own OS even if pre-installed windows is the norm.
19 • Ubuntu will never die. (by Former Ubuntu user on 2017-05-15 07:19:41 GMT from Australia)
"Ubuntu will never die." I disagree, Ubuntu died years ago when Shuttleworth morphed from open source advocate to just another greedy tech billionaire. Canonical just goes from bad to worse.
20 • @19 • Ubuntu will never die. (by Greg Zeng on 2017-05-15 08:01:58 GMT from Australia)
Publicly traded companies, like 1) "Red Hat", 2) SUSE, & 3) Google need to disclose legal & financial details to the investors, with reputable auditing reports. It depends on which nations they are "legally" situated; often in Ireland, instead of the USA.
These public companies do have a legally-defined "death" & death-process. If 4) Ubuntu follows other three Linux "public" companies, it will be much harder for it to die. Each company has other legally registered "dependents": Fedora. OpenSUSE, (Android, Chromium), etc. Some of these "dependents" have staff members & other resources financially supported by the legal-financial "parent".
If ever the "parent dies", the dependent "children" may continue. Some "children" might also morph into privately-owned, and-or publicly traded corporations.
In comparison, other privately-owned companies, like most small & medium businesses, have very limited legal & financial obligations. This includes the freedom to "die" & disappear instantly, without any definite way of being easily accountable for crimes, debts, etc.
Often "death" talk is unfashionable. All human enterprises ("religions" excepted) are engineered creations, so they have known & predictable deaths. Public accountability has openly declared investors, with known, calculable "death-rates".
To determine if any legal corporation has a more accountable death, google:
investment shares "_", where the name of the legal-owner is in between the quotation marks.
21 • Opinion poll: Linux on 2nd hand computers (by Kazlu on 2017-05-15 08:06:52 GMT from France)
I voted "unsure" because I don't plan on buying a new computer again. For ecological reasons, I will now only buy 2nd hand computers. There are many of them which are sold because they "do not work any longer" or they "are slow". Kicking out Windows and installing a GNU/Linux distro on them allows you to have a perfectly capable computer for cheap. And that way you do not encourage the mass production of computers thought to last only a few years.
Even when I needed a powerful computer, I bought a "reconditionned" computer and I'm absolutely satisfied with it, it's a beast and does what I want. It had Windows 8 on it but I never used it. There are also lots of 2nd hand gamer computers that are powerful and relatively cheap.
So, I am unsure of what will be preinstalled on my next computer, because it's not a criteria for me and it will depend on what is on the 2nd hand market when I need it. Whataver the OS that is preinstalled, I will install my GNU/Linux distro of choice on it anyway.
22 • Ubuntu will never die (by Former Ubuntu user on 2017-05-15 08:25:33 GMT from Australia)
@20 I have no doubt that Shuttleworth will be well protected and that the company will survive. I was referring to the spirit of Ubuntu in the Zulu (?) sense. The word "ubuntu" means "humanity to all". Good luck with that.
23 • last PC purchase (by xon on 2017-05-15 09:10:07 GMT from United States)
My last PC purchase was an HP 8000 G2 mini, which came with Freedos. I was pleased that I could buy a oc sans-serif Windows. I have two drives installed: one with Ubuntu 16.04, the other with Fedora 25.
My next purchase should be similar: mini/micro, no OS. I get to decide which OS I want.
24 • Pre-installed Linux (by cykodrone on 2017-05-15 09:15:43 GMT from Canada)
I had to vote NOT pre-installed because I'll be building my next computer (as usual), it'll be a Ryzen 1700, and I'll be installing Linux myself (as usual).
25 • No OS installed (by Dave Postles on 2017-05-15 09:20:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
I buy my notebooks from PCSpecialist in the UK. You can specify no OS installed in the build specification. Despite that, they test the build with Windows, so you receive the notebook with Windows pre-installed (in my experience). Novatech in the UK offers notebooks with £100 discount (from Win10 installed) for no OS installed (according to their website).
26 • Refurbished PCs (by Pierre on 2017-05-15 09:26:49 GMT from Australia)
the refurbished PCs market is steadily growing,
yes - they come pre-installed with Windows,
but, you are used to that option, so therefore you dual-boot,
- there is no way around the Microsoft Tax.
eventually you replace both systems, with what you really prefer.
27 • Pre-installed Linux (by Paschalis Sp on 2017-05-15 09:44:23 GMT from Greece)
I preffer to have no os on any of my PCs / Servers & Laptops, because I want to choose what-how and which os to install. So It is better to have Linux/BSD Compatibility than to get a box with Pre-installed Linux.
28 • re. 26 (by Someguy on 2017-05-15 09:46:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, indeed, but my machines for refurbishment come thick and fast - free gratis! Sometimes feel they'd pay to have them taken away! Plenty of excellent 32bit Linux options - no need to dual boot. Plenty of gratis spares, cheap recertified ex-TV box hard drives, all modern TVs have a vga socket. What's to need? Kid's-play to bolt it all together.
29 • Canonical & Pre-Installed Linux (by RandomBoy on 2017-05-15 09:58:45 GMT from United States)
I'll buy stock in Canonical if it goes public, just to be part of their story. Canonical has done more than anyone else ever, to bring Linux to "ordinary" non-geeky casual desktop users. Many others have tried to do the same, but none with as much impact as Canonical.
I too will buy only refurbished or flea-market second hand computers from now on. I have an ancient Dell that has been kept out of the landfill for 15 years now because of 32-bit lightweight Linux options, from Salix (Slackware-based, simple, awesome - kinda does for Slackware what Ubuntu has done for Debian) to Linux Lite.
30 • NixOS and Plasma (by Mustafa on 2017-05-15 10:02:23 GMT from Iraq)
I really like NixOS, I just prefer rolling distros, the name of the desktop is Plasma 5, not KDE 5, please call it by its name, KDE is a community, news outlets and reviews should call the DE with its name, not what they like, this can confuse users, the re-branding didn't work well yet because of this.
31 • No OS... (by Vukota on 2017-05-15 10:17:29 GMT from Serbia)
@5, @13. Option I listed includes "No OS installed". Are you really willing to pay more for the system that doesn't have OS installed, given everything else is equal? I am not, and as @10 mentioned, having pre-installed Linux doesn't provide you with any warranty that installed components are indeed Linux friendly (you have to DYOD). I purchased very cheap locked Chromebook that had solid hardware with the sole intention of swapping ChromeOS on it with the pure Linux.
To those that said they will build their next computer by themselves, good for them. Rest of us, we usually need flexibility to move computer around and to have it working without power (on the train, airplane, bus, car...). I will build "server" type of computer myself, but regular desktop, not really.
About Ubuntu, I don't know if it is going to die, but obviously Shuttleworth proved not to be a good visionary leader, and I will not be investing money in it. When RHT was going public, I was excited and knew they would do good. With Ubuntu, I am afraid, after going public, they will go from bad to worst. Why? Because once companies goes public, they have to answer to investors and only thing they care about is the profit. That kills innovation, unless you have a strong leader with a good and clear picture what to do in the future (and investors trust in his "crazy" decisions and they "do get it"). Here, that secret ingredient is missing.
About Alpha Litebook, it looks nice on the picture, but as others have stated, on the site it doesn't provide enough information about the laptop itself or the company that is selling it. What is the CPU in it? What is the graphics card in it? Can you swap memory? What is the max amount of RAM you can put in it? Is the screen touch screen? Is the screen mate or glossy? Can the screen be rotated by 360 or 270 degrees? What is the company's address and phone numbers for support and for sale (there is no link "About Us" and that is something that even eBay/Amazon sellers have)? Whole site looks as a site form a shady business. Where is the shipping and return policy listed on the site (I couldn't find a link)? What are the shipping times, costs and abilities to ship to a different countries? Support is only by e-mail? Really? There is no support for the hardware they are selling (guides, manuals, drivers, etc.)?
32 • Alpha Litebook, Corel Linux, Xandrox and The Black Lab Linux ... (by Nemrut on 2017-05-15 10:22:49 GMT from Canada)
i have tried majority of distros listed here on Distrowatch, as i have been a`distro-hopper since mid '90ies ...
Among all distros i used; Corel Linux, and Xandros ... were the two PERFECT DISTROs i still fondly recall and always will. Pity that they were eventually discontinued.
I would say The Black Lab Linux is the only distro which can be compared to Corel Linux, or Xandros, today. Accordingly, i would have definitely bought one of those Alpha Litebook machine if they had The Black Lab installed.
33 • Hardware Review (by Jesse Smith) The Alpha Litebook (by No Body on 2017-05-15 10:23:19 GMT from Switzerland)
@Jesse
Well Jesse, what shall I say to that?
If I have Elementary OS allready preinstalled which doesn't work / stops working after kernel update, then I'm not trying to install something even more deprecated (LMDE ships with kernel 3.16.xxx or 3.19.xxx?) but I try something with newer kernel versions.
I'm also not trying to install some other deprecated server systems like Red Hat (CentOS, Springdale, Fermi, Scientific...) or anything else Debian / Devuan based (with exception MX Linux).
Under Manjaro you can easily change kernels and take 4.10 or 4.11. I don't know if this would make the things better with Alpha product, but many Machines started to work with kernels after 4.8.7.
Kind Regards
34 • Pre-intalled Linux (by jymm on 2017-05-15 10:33:38 GMT from United States)
I am basically familiar with System 76 and ZaReason for Linux pre-installed. I know they have excellent hardware, but the prices were basically out of my reach. I opted for a re-conditioned laptop from Amazon.
The first boot made me question the authenticity of the Windows 7 Professional copy on the laptop. I didn't really care as I bought the laptop to run Linux. I picked HP as they have a good record of supporting Linux. I got a lot of laptop for what I spent.
With Linux laptops starting at near $700 to $800 dollars from those two companies, I think there will be a lot of Linux running on Windows machines that start as low as $250, MS tax or not. While I would love to buy a box with Linux pre-installed, economics plays hugely into that decision.
35 • Pre-intalled Linux (by Alan on 2017-05-15 11:48:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Dell in the past have offered machines with Linux, but they are different machines, to those that come with Windows, so you can't see the cost difference.
Interestingly a while ago I read that it can be cheaper to buy with Windows, as the OEM gets a "kickback" from the bundling of anti-virus, other software etc, so this actually discounts the price of the machine and Windows.
As mentioned above, there is the option of shops like Novatech which offer a price for a machine, then OS is additional extra, which can be a giood way to get Windows installed without all the bloat, but then you miss the discount of having the "free" trials etc.
So, in short, if you're buying a machine to run Linux, don't just look at machines with no OS and Linux machines, you could be better off buying a Windows one.
36 • Disappointing hardware choices (by curious on 2017-05-15 12:02:02 GMT from Germany)
Considering Jesse's review and comment @10, buying a computer with Linux preinstalled makes no sense, as one still has to expect that certain components will be incompatible with Linux (or at least with the version used).
That removes the main reason for getting such a computer in the first place.
If I were to buy a computer with an (ANY!) operating system preinstalled, I would expect the hardware to be fully supported - which is reasonable, even for Linux: Linux hardware support today is better than ever.
37 • Hardware review (by Jesse on 2017-05-15 13:04:38 GMT from Canada)
@33: "If I have Elementary OS allready preinstalled which doesn't work / stops working after kernel update, then I'm not trying to install something even more deprecated (LMDE ships with kernel 3.16.xxx or 3.19.xxx?) but I try something with newer kernel versions."
I think you may have missed the part of my review when I mentioned trying to install Ubuntu 16.04.2 on the Litebook. Ubuntu 16.04.2 is the base for elementary OS 0.4 and uses the same kernel. Both Ubuntu and LMDE edition, while they use different kernels, have the exact same hardware problems when running on the Litebook.
The issue, in this case, has nothing to do with the kernel version. The problem is the required drivers are not in the mainline kernel and must be installed separately. Also, keep in mind that Ubuntu 16.04.2 has an updated kernel with newer hardware support. (Drivers have been backported.) If the hardware doesn't work with Ubuntu's backported kernel drivers then trying a newer kernel will not help as the drivers clearly still haven't been merged into the mainline kernel.
38 • Buying Linux pre-loaded... (by Tom Joad on 2017-05-15 13:56:49 GMT from United States)
Yes, no and maybe.
So far I have done pretty well with linux and computer buys.
I build my own towers so that is not a problem necessarily. But I do have to shop for the components. However that is relatively easy too. Mostly I avoid ATI, Broadcom and maybe a few others. Having recently built three with no problems with Linux building towers are easily doable.
Laptops are a hard core shopping experience if you don't buy 'pre-installed.' System 76 is good. I have had one and it still runs well after 8 or so years. I would have bought a second but we got, the company and I, got 'cross-wise' over some issues. I do continue to look at them and considered them before I bought is HP. I have had good luck with Sony too. I would suggest looking for manufacturers who will let you 'build' from scratch the computer you want.
Lastly buying off the shelf in a big box store is pretty tough. One has to be diligent and go slow about hardware or one will be easily fubarred. I look, as much as I can, at the particular hardware inside and then research those individual parts. That takes time to do but it can be done. Also have a look at Linux sites to gauge how those parts or computers are treating Linux users in the real world.
Lastly, a nice, gracious store or web site return policy and a usb drive with Mint, Ubuntu or System Rescue or Parted Magic, etc with tell all you need to know about what is inside the computer. If Lninux doesn't run or run nicely...well you know what to do...
Happy hunting...
39 • Market for Computers with Linux Pre-Installed (by Winchester on 2017-05-15 14:24:14 GMT from United States)
It seems to me that,in general, people who would want a Linux distribution pre-installed on a new computer might also fall into the group of people who don't want to re-install an operating system.
However,most computers with Linux pre-installed seem to have fixed / point release distributions. The KDE Slimbook is one example of this.
It would seem to make more sense,to me anyway,to have a rolling release distribution pre-installed such as SUSE Tumbleweed.
If you can re-install an operating system than you can also initially install one in the first place.
PClinuxOS would be a good option for being pre-installed on a new computer but,I have heard of some "Chimp Box" customers struggling with the PClinuxOS Synaptic Package Manager xAuthority issue / feature requiring a root account log-in to use the program. Maybe they should pre-install the PClinuxOS update notification applet with instructions on how to deploy the applet using apt-get.
Maybe a Debian Testing based distribution would be a good option in some cases.
40 • Computer with Linux pre-installed (by aguador on 2017-05-15 14:26:36 GMT from Spain)
As said in one of the comments, the best reasons for buying machines with Linux pre-installed is to support the vendors who are doing this. Unfortunately, most offer Ubuntu or a variant, which means they push my least favourite distro onto newbies. For more experienced user that is not a problem as we simply wipe the HD and install our favourite distro.
I am quite happy with the machine I bought here in Spain in January (Vantpc.es). The bad part was that it came with Ubuntu preinstalled; the good part, Vant provides a backup pendrive and good tech support information for users on its website -- and windows drivers for those who may need a dual boot machine for programs that won't run in Wine. These features make it great for newer users. In my case, Unity lasted for less than an hour of testing, the Mate I downloaded for a couple of days of real use, and then I installed my daily driver (Mageia 6 with E21) and have been a happy camper ever since.
For newer Linuxeros, there is at least one vendor here in Spain, Slimbook, that offers a few distros pre-installed, Windows if you really want/need it, or no OS. I hope there are others offering choices in other corners of the world.
41 • Buy or Build? (by c00ter on 2017-05-15 14:38:51 GMT from United States)
After their first Linux install, I imagine most long-term users look to identify Linux-friendly components, rather than brands, pre-builts, etc. That has been my experience.
42 • Survey lacks Freed option (by FOSSilizing Dinosaur on 2017-05-15 16:30:46 GMT from United States)
If it isn't Freed Open-Source Software, your pre-installed OS is worth less to you - and more to those who hope to trade on your data. If it doesn't perform at its best with FOSS, it's hardware is worth less to you; could be the vendor just wants to clear old stock off dusty shelves. How many vendors support one or more pre-installed FOSS operating systems?
?
(Of course, unless it's open hardware, software is useful, but security debatable.)
43 • Linux Pre-Installed (by Bill on 2017-05-15 16:37:23 GMT from United States)
I ordered my laptop from the Linux Laptop Company. I was going to let them put Linux on it, but their versions were about 3 mos behind. So I bought it with nothing on it and partitioned the drive for the 4 OS I have on it now. Incidentally, the hardware rocks!! i7 quad core 16 gigs ram and Nvidia card. It's awesome!
44 • Linux Laptop Company (by brad on 2017-05-15 17:21:18 GMT from United States)
@43 -
Interesting - add $159.00 for a dual-boot option (I don't think you can get a license key for much cheaper than that). My only objection here would be that I don't know/haven't heard much about the company and its products. Anyone else out there have any experience with LLC?
45 • NixOS (by silent on 2017-05-15 17:27:02 GMT from Hungary)
A very lightweight OS with Plasma desktop? I don't really get the point...
46 • NoOS would be preferable (by far2fish on 2017-05-15 20:27:19 GMT from Denmark)
Buying an OS less hardware with Intel only components would be my choice. However where I live you have no other options other than Windows pre installed.
So...enter BIOS and turn off secure boot. Boot gparted and wipe everything. Install my Linux distro of choice. Make some coffee. Launch Ansible playbook to install favorite software and tweak the OS. Drink the coffee. Login. Voila. Looking at watch. Have only taken 20 to 30 minutes for the entire chain of events; depending on chosen distro.
47 • Bought a Dell Inspiron 14 5458 (by Douglas on 2017-05-15 20:40:00 GMT from Brazil)
The Dell Inspiron i3-5005u I'm writing this post with came with Ubuntu 14.04 pre-installed (why didn't they update? i ask myself. It came very bloated by Dell, with Chrome installed and some undesired modifications). Most people would say that if it came with Ubuntu, it must be really bug-free and fully supported, but that's not always the case. Fedora runs better here, but I still face issues with Linux distros in general such as BIOS entries deleting themselves, network-manager failing to reconnect and GTK3 Desktop Environments filled with disastrous graphical glitches.
I would still pick a Linux laptop, but please be aware that as of 2017, Intel graphics and Wireless are causing many problems.
48 • Linux pre-installed? (by dragonmouth on 2017-05-15 20:59:24 GMT from United States)
Nope. I want to run the software that I like (distro and apps), not what someone thinks is popular and/or kewl. Like #16:edcoolio, I don't trust the system integrators not to install some crap ware that I have to expunge unto the system. When I buy my next PC, it will be something refurbished from Newegg. I will wipe the drive and install the distro I want with only the software that I need/want. Nothing superfluous.
49 • Buying new computer (by Ken on 2017-05-15 21:08:43 GMT from United States)
I build my desktop and replace components as necessary, and when I first got it, I didn't know much about GNU/Linux and bought Windows 7 to go with it. But I dual-boot it now. I doubt I'll ever buy a complete desktop again, as I enjoyed building this one.
When I needed a new laptop, I knew I wanted a Libreboot laptop, so picked up an X200 from MiniFree. Pricey for me to ship across the Atlantic, but I wanted a laptop that would be as freed as possible. It came with Trisquel pre-installed, but I reinstalled it anyway for full disk encryption. I wasn't sure how I'd like it, but I love Libreboot. If my X200 ever fails, I'll be buying a new Libreboot laptop and putting a full-disk encryption install of GNU/Linux on it for sure.
50 • Linux pre-installed,....and Nix (by lenn on 2017-05-15 21:33:07 GMT from Canada)
I wouldn't buy a laptop with pre-installed Linux distro. By the time it arrives, the "installed" Linux is already old. And, being a "fan" of Linux distros, I would like to have a laptop that would have a large hard disk, which can accommodate few distros. Then, again I'd buy a laptop with Windows pre-installed, for that OS practically comes to you free. Of course, I won't buy a "just released," hot from the oven laptop. I'd wait few months, if I want that exact machine. The price usually falls down by about 20-30% by that time. The pre-installed Windows would be the same (and free -- price difference) and would be upgraded practically immediately. I'd install whatever Linux Distro(s) I like at the moment to few partitions. That way, I'd have the best of both worlds.
@ Jessie
If you are going to make a review of a piece of hardware, you shouldn't buy it, but the company should sent it free. In this case Elementary should pay for part of it. Anyway, your review proved what I maintained all the time--Elementary OS is getting buggy all the time.
@ Ivan
When you start using Nix Package Manager in other distro(s), could you give us a detailed how-to?
51 • preinstalled linux (by gekxxx on 2017-05-15 21:34:35 GMT from Belgium)
I change distro regulary, however buying preinstalled prevents paying for Windows whioch I do not use anyway. And if the installed distro helps the devellopers financially, why not?
52 • Opinion Poll (by Steve on 2017-05-16 00:17:05 GMT from United States)
Not a well thought out poll... it left out some obvious choices... like:
I build my own computers and install the OS myself.
For my four systems that is currently:
Win7 (turned off updates before having that win10 malware jammed down my throat)
PCLinuxOS w/Mate
Tiny Core Linux (just keeping a really old laptop alive)
FreeBSD (no GUI, used as a server)
53 • Poll (by Kleer Kut on 2017-05-16 01:06:21 GMT from United States)
Seems like a lot of us that go DIY for our OS also do the same for our PC's.
I bough my very first pre-assembled computer last year. I actually bought an SSD months before getting the laptop. It seems to me many people into gaming, overclocking, Linux, or other more enthusiast computer uses tend to switch out drives that come with machines. It's too bad they can't sell the machines without drives since they can't please everybody.
On the other hand it would be pretty awesome if Microsoft subsidizes the OS to a bunch of machines and then find a huge gap between the number of licensed machines sold and actual users, but that would require more people to try Linux and dual booters to get over the 'I need X' when they genuinely don't have a 'need'.
54 • for #31, Yes, No OS :) (by BeGo on 2017-05-16 03:34:21 GMT from Indonesia)
"@5, @13. Option I listed includes "No OS installed". Are you really willing to pay more for the system that doesn't have OS installed, given everything else is equal?"
- Err, wrong premise and pressing for question with wrong premise as argument is downright rude. BNBR. :)
- 1st. We did not pay extra for no OS system, and we use the stable newest OS. :)
2nd. In Indonesia, we can actually test install our OS to the laptop before buying it. It already became a custom here. :)
"having pre-installed Linux doesn't provide you with any warranty that installed components are indeed Linux friendly" (you have to DYOD)
- 3rd. And sadly, for most cases in Indonesia, no shop can guarantee any OS and any OS version work well with any laptop, even for Microsoft OS Installer. :)
you have to DYOD
- This is why I love Linux. I take it as a compliment. This way better than some clueless admin mess up with my PC and became a bottleneck :)
55 • Well, maybe (by azuvix on 2017-05-16 03:39:00 GMT from United States)
I see no problem with buying hardware with a distro preinstalled, as long as other distros won't choke on the hardware if I ever change my mind. I guess the biggest challenges would be familiarity with the distro (not a huge issue anymore) and how much tweaking would have to be done to get things "just right".
Really, though, after a decade in *nix land, you know your preferences and installation is one of the least complicated things you have to do. My machines go from "useless" to "productive" in a couple of hours, if that. I'd sooner build the PC myself, toss in a blank hard drive, and have some fun.
Regarding NixOS, I think its underlying concepts are the bee's knees, though I'm generally more interested in GuixSD (because Lisp).
56 • Buying Linux pre-loaded (by jaws222 on 2017-05-16 03:46:39 GMT from United States)
I either build my own or install an SSD in a laptop and load the Linux OS of my choice
57 • Poll (by Vukota on 2017-05-16 07:27:55 GMT from Serbia)
@54: Anyhow, epilogue is that poll results are rigged, since people were giving votes in two different categories (as they were one) "Unsure" and "Will not have Linux pre-installed", when they meant totally different things. And they all ranged from
- Will have closed source OS pre-installed
- Will have no OS pre-installed (either because you buy such computer pre-built or you build it)
- Will have whatever OS installed as long as it is the cheapest option that is reasonably well supported by Linux
- Will have whatever OS installed on it if the price difference is not close
- Will have whatever OS installed on it as long as it is the cheapest option available
- Unsure what it will have on it and what will be support for Linux
Now about whether having Windows pre-installed will cost more or less money, as others pointed out, it depends. Many times (if you are shopping for it), it will be cheaper (at least in US and often times in Europe) with windows on it. If in Indonesia those discrepancies does not exist, good for you and your options are clear. For rest of us, not so.
For shoppers in US, best warranty when they are buying computers is good store's return policy. COSTCO being probably one of the preferred places for such a purchase (as matching 90 days no questions asked returns on computers is hard to match).
58 • Linux pre-installed (by argent on 2017-05-16 10:01:12 GMT from United States)
Guess for most would be "do you own your computer" versus "does your computer own you"? Regardless of the available choices Ubuntu, Android and a few others mentioned will be basically proprietary software and your life for sale as it is with Windows.
Suggest build your own and stay away from the exploit developers and run something systemd-free.
59 • Already Old (by jymm on 2017-05-16 11:01:24 GMT from United States)
"I wouldn't buy a laptop with pre-installed Linux distro. By the time it arrives, the "installed" Linux is already old." Lenn
There are options to avoid this happening. There are extended support LTS and rolling releases.
I agree if you have Ubuntu 17.04 installed, it will be old by the first of the year. Yet if you had chosen 16.04 when it first was released you had 5 years of support. You still have 4 years of support left on that release.
60 • NixOS (by Jordan on 2017-05-16 13:08:05 GMT from United States)
The first few phrases of that review made NixOS sound like great distro ready for enjoyment by the masses.
Then the rest of the review indicated a hosts of problems, kinks, and things to be dealt with as if we were getting a kit with (some out of place) instructions.
KDE 5 is KDE 5. But that isn't the OS. NixOS seems to be in need of either finishing off or re-catagorized as truly experimental. I do admit I have not tried it, so perhaps I'm getting impressions from the review that are leaning more negative than was intended.
61 • @ 59 (by lenn on 2017-05-16 14:37:59 GMT from Canada)
I'd buy a laptop without the pre-installed part, even better if it has the "other OS" in it, at a discount price and install whatever Linux distro I like at the given moment. Other than that, I'd build the Linux installation from netinstall or a mini iso.
Pre-installed Linux laptop is just a gimmick for some company to earn money, not to help us have an up to date distro in a quality machine. One good example is the laptop Jessie got with a buggy elementary os.
No, I won't buy a pre-installed Linux in a laptop, for it'd rid me of the fun of playing with Linux installs, and studying newer distros created by other people. Linux is evolving much faster.
62 • @ Jessie Nix package manager (by chris on 2017-05-16 15:11:43 GMT from Canada)
Regarding your review of Nix package manager in issue no: 709;
"The only issue I found was that applications installed by Nix were not automatically added to my desktop's application menu. I could edit the menu and add desktop program launchers if I wanted to, but Nix did not do this for me by default"
How did you add the desktop program launchers? How and where to find them to add them?
63 • Pre-installed Linux (by Brian Vaughan on 2017-05-16 17:42:21 GMT from United States)
I can see the value of pre-installed Linux for novice users, or for an organization that needs a common standard baseline for system configuration. For personal use, though, I prefer to choose which distro and which desktop environment I install, so it's a lot easier for me to start fresh, with an installation on bare metal. Also, as others have said, I doubt I could afford a new system in the foreseeable future, and would be more likely to purchase a used system; and anyway, I take some pride in bringing older systems back to life.
64 • Pre-installed Linux Options (by M.Z. on 2017-05-16 21:11:02 GMT from United States)
For my part I've really enjoyed my old Zareason Laptop. It's several years old now, but it multi-boots LMDE & Mageia quite well, & does HDMI out for all my TV streaming. I did a lot of school work on it while earning my masters & have done a little bit of Linux gaming & other miscellaneous tasks as well, but mostly but it has streamed mass quantities of TV. It seems very high quality & has held up very well with few issues & the vast majority of distros I throw at it just work.
@61
"...No, I won't buy a pre-installed Linux in a laptop, for it'd rid me of the fun of playing with Linux installs..."
Funny, when I got my Zareason laptop they seemed happy to accommodate my multi-booting habits. I asked for them to put Mint Cinnamon on 1/4th of the SSD & they did it. Then I played with other distros like Fedora, LMDE2 (still on there), multiple versions of Mint KDE, & finally ended up triple booting Mint KDE 17, LMDE2 & Mageia 5. I killed Mint 17 when version 18 came out & had a few issues so I'm only dual booting for right now while I'm waiting for LMDE 3 & Mageia 6. Anyway, I'm very happy with my Linux multi-booting experience on the whole & it came to my door with one copy of Linux & room to grow.
Also, the way they let me configure the laptop I ended up with something a bit like Jesse, but with a bigger SSD for multiple copies of Linux & with an old school HDD for my /data partition. The /data partition connects to all my home folders with out containing the .dot files the can cause cross configuration issues if you make the mistake of using a shared /home folder.
I also reuse a lot of hardware & all my stuff is at least 5+ years old now, but sometimes it's really nice to have a good laptop for muti-booting different distros. At this point I think I would generally build my own desktops if I had the time or money (not paying for anything new anytime soon), but for the laptop I think pre-built & Linux friendly can be very worth while. At very least it's worth looking into as an option when you need & can afford a new laptop.
65 • preinstalled Linux (by thor on 2017-05-17 02:12:58 GMT from United States)
I build most of my computers and then I install Debian on them Debian always works. The beautiful thing about Debian is you can have any desktop installed that you want even several at the same time.
66 • Linux PreLoaded . . Yea or Nay . . . ? (by G. Geoffrey on 2017-05-17 03:32:09 GMT from United States)
Yea . . . .
Have retrofitted about 10 desktops and laptops since 2003. Then, there was NO practical option to buy pre-loaded . . . . BUT . . . . with standard BIOS it was easy to setup a dual or linux only PC (provided you had popular, standard hardware).
Have only setup 1 dual-boot and 1 Linux only on UEFI PC's. Suceeded on each, but for sure more work and effort required.
Just not worth the hassle to me anymore, as I don't spend even 2 hours to totally install the OS and setup the Desktop & Apps.
With pre-installed, that time can be cut down to less than 1 hour. The core OS setup takes maybe 10 minutes.
I also like that "everyting" works out of the box on my System76 Galago UltraPro laptop. It's been used everyday for the past 2.5 years without a single issue. Ditto for my System76 Sable AIO (all-in-one). Best overall PC I've ever had re speed, display, storage & other periphs . . .
And lastly, I've always supported my Linux distros financially - - in my view, it's just the right thing to do.
67 • Pre-Installed Linux (by Paul Vandenberg on 2017-05-17 12:13:57 GMT from Canada)
I would love to buy a laptop with Linux pre-installed. However, this seems to be available only on more expensive laptops, which are out of my budget. I tend to go for lower priced Windows laptops and then de-fenestrate them. LOL
68 • Pre-installed Linux. (by Lawson on 2017-05-17 15:27:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think folks are looking at this from the wrong angle !
Widows are written to work on every pc or laptop. In other words, every pc or laptops designed with Widows in mind. RESTRICTION ?
With Linux, it’s different. It is all about CHOICE !
Choice of distros.
Choice of environment.
That then leads on to your choice of hardware. If your like me, you take advantage of knowing people in the trade who give you the nod when something special is coming up at the right price. The most expensive item I have ever bought was a third generation i7 laptop last year for £100.00. And I got a 17" screen / 8gb ram and a tb hdd.
Everything I have had in the last 13 years - since ditching Widows - has run smoothly with Linux. From PIII-500's through Xeon servers, right up to current i7.
Over the years have found 2 distros that suit my needs. Pclos and LinuxMint. With both of these distros, everything " works out of the box ".
And in case your wondering........... yes I am an old fart ! and proud to be in his 8th decade !
69 • @68 (by Bellan on 2017-05-17 15:36:55 GMT from United States)
It doesn't matter if the hardware is designed for Windows as long as it also works for Linux-based operating systems, which it usually does. It's not like computers that come pre-installed with Linux use different components. (Unless of course, you are a Free Software fanatic, in which case you're likely to almost never be pleased.) As computers don't restrict what you can install on them, you still have choice. And I choose not to purchase lesser hardware just because it has Linux labeled on it.
70 • installing linux (by Jesscia on 2017-05-17 18:58:35 GMT from United States)
@Linux Preinstalled: I don't buy computers with linux preinstalled as there are none. The only company's all ship with Amiga OS 4.1 or the latest version of Mac OS Lepard.
@Ubuntu's Death: Ubuntu has been dieing for years. If they had been doing there job correctly we would not have distros like Solus, OpenSuse tumbleweed, or the KDE Neon. Don't get me wrong they are good distros, but each was created because ubuntu sucks.
71 • @ 70 (by kaczor on 2017-05-17 22:09:23 GMT from United States)
The guy, who created KDE Neon was once the head of Kubuntu team, but I don't think the Solus creator Ikey was ever a Ubuntu person.
72 • Build Your Own OS (by GuesSuX on 2017-05-17 23:02:24 GMT from Canada)
@#58 ... argent
[b][i]Guess for most would be "do you own your computer" versus "does your computer own you"? Regardless of the available choices Ubuntu, Android and a few others mentioned will be basically proprietary software and your life for sale as it is with Windows.
Suggest build your own and stay away from the exploit developers and run something systemd-free.[/i][/b]
Pick up on GNU/GPL, go through sources. Pick on Libre kernels & Build Your Own OS!
Ubuntu going to promote wayland and marketing for RedHat.
Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, RedHat and Windows will be fantasies of past for commercial oligarchy. systemd has no future too, with multiple rise of DEVUAN and it's derivatives.
73 • OBrevenge (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-05-18 00:23:28 GMT from United States)
Only distro I met whose ISOs lack mention of a root password. How to test live? Is this an Arch thing?
74 • What? (by M.Z. on 2017-05-18 00:33:33 GMT from United States)
@58
"Regardless of the available choices Ubuntu, Android and a few others mentioned will be basically proprietary software..."
Do you even understand the concepts behind the GPL license or what it has accomplished for you & me the end users? Canonical has done some fairly terrible things with Ubuntu, especially regarding the privacy rights of Unity DE users; however, there can be no reasonable argument regarding it being 'proprietary software'. It's also worth noting that even if Ubuntu isn't your first choice, there are still some places selling computers with whatever Linux distro you want pre-installed (Zareason & Think Penguin just to name 2).
@70
"I don't buy computers with linux preinstalled as there are none."
What? Why is there a whole page here on DW about such options then? See link:
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=hardware#purchase
75 • GNU/Linux pre-installed... (by zcatav on 2017-05-18 12:12:16 GMT from Turkey)
I've a system76 laptop GNU/Linux pre-installed on it.
76 • Linux Pre-Installed (by Jake on 2017-05-18 16:51:27 GMT from United States)
I agree with @11: the only reason I would buy a Linux pre-installed machine would be to support those actually making the effort to offer Linux (I would also take no OS pre-installed as well). The trouble is what I've found is usually overpriced for what you get. I don't want to support that.
@18, I wish I lived where you lived. That was always my dream: cheaper hardware without Windows.
77 • preinstalled linux (by Jessica F on 2017-05-18 19:35:03 GMT from United States)
@74 There are no new laptops being made let alone with linux. The last one was over 3000 dollars and got hot to the point where you can't have it on your laptop. There is a project for a new labtop though http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/en/. As for the desktops there are still companies makeing them such as A-EON, Acube systems, Eye Tech, AMCC, Gensei, and IBM.
78 • Linux pre-instaled laptops (by kaczor on 2017-05-18 20:10:48 GMT from United States)
The cheapest Zareason is $869 + transport costs. cheapest Think Penguin is $699+, System 76 also $699+.
Well, how much is the cheapest Windows laptop today? $150? $200?
Why buy Linux pre-installed laptop, when there are so(oooo...) many Linux distros availble here at Distrowatch? An, when most of these distros are brand new, practically every week?
79 • Cost & Value(s) (by M.Z. on 2017-05-19 03:25:31 GMT from United States)
@77 & 78
The figures from #78 actually sound real & indeed I've seen similar figures on those sites recently, not sure where the others come from. That being said, there are certainly things like Chromebooks that are based purely on price & there are probably Windows machines going after that market as well. You could certainly get a Chromebook if price was make or break for your purchase & still get something with Linux, albeit an odd version. The thing of it is that most regular Linux laptops are aimed at something closer to a Macbook or mid to high end Windows laptop in price. It's a niche market for pre-installed Linux machines so it is difficult for most small Linux focused manufactures to compete with the price & volume of others. At least that's what makes sense from what I understand of the Linux laptop market.
Anyway, some of us are willing to save up for a dedicated Linux focused machine every great once in a while. When I looked at the specs & features on competitive Mac computers I felt there was a real & reasonable value proposition in my Zareason laptop. It's been a few years, but from what I can remember the things I lacked on my somewhat modest model seemed to made up for in the savings compared to some similar Mac hardware. I do think of both as being somewhat niche, especially in the case of Linux, so I thought the value was very reasonable for what I got. Also it's been very good to me. Everyone has different budgets & priorities, but for me my Zareason machine gave a good balance of vale & meeting my values, & yes is was a lot cheaper than the price mentioned in #77.
As a side note on price, saying all Linux laptops cost $3k is like saying an American made pair of jeans costs $200. You may find someone willing to charge that, but if you do a little homework you can find blue jeans that are union made in the usa for like $40 or $50. Perhaps they aren't the cheapest around, but like a Linux laptop they also make me feel like an ethical consumer (avoiding sweatshpos, OS monopolies etc.) for far less $s than some would have you believe.
@78
"Why buy Linux pre-installed laptop, when there are so(oooo...) many Linux distros availble here at Distrowatch? An, when most of these distros are brand new, practically every week?"
Better comparability (with the right manufacturer)? Not feeding a monopoly player? Also, what does the number of distros here have to do with it? I put several of them on my Zareason laptop as I mentioned above. Also the newness thing matters little, because everything needs to be updated after install regardless.
80 • The many different distributions, variants, editions, and versions of LinuxOS. (by Theopoli on 2017-05-19 13:28:36 GMT from United States)
2017May19
Thank you all in the Linux Community for creating, testing, archiving, and documenting the now more than 37,840 versions of Linux operating systems and more are added every hour. Though many are classified and austere, they have fulfill a need. Especially now that there are many "virtual" quantum processors Linux shall be the forerunner of new technologies to come. Today the only computer operating systems that can model real-time and multi-state concurrent time rendering of quantum phase phenomenon are Quantum capable Linux operating systems that adapts and scales beyond several Exa-bit in resolution.
Family has the most fun with older "supposed obsolete" Windows computers. We clean
the hard disk drive of its contents and install several different versions of LinuxOS...
[BellaOS], [KaOS], [Sabayon], [Chapeau], [Bluestar Linux], [UltimateUbuntu Mate], [Debian GNU/Linux], [Knoppix], [Pearl], [Just Browsing], [Quantum Temporal Linux], [Fermi], [TinyCore], [Scientific Linux], [Fedora], [AntiX], [Shakespeare Linux], and they are all very good with most Intel, AMD, Zilog, and ARM processors.
Matter of fact... when older computers running Windows, or Mac OS-X operating systems seem slow, then wiped the hard disk drive clean, next install a version of Linux operating system. The computer now behaves like a brand new computer system on day one.
Best yet, many versions of LinuxOS do not require any kind of storage device to operate normally. There are even versions of LinuxOS that will run from rare and embedded RISC processors.
What more can a user ask of LinuxOS? How about doing my multi-variable quantum modular calculus for me. What users want from LinuxOS in the next several years is a Linux operating system that can modulate a battery of "tunneling LASERs" in a quantum phase enabled matrix to project onto three dimensional space a dynamic holographic image that will also interact with the audience.
My favorite versions of LinuxOS, too many to list here, but the surviving versions of the old UNIX operating systems are greatly enhanced and improved by re-using and inserting Linux code into its framework. At last I can now tolerate FreeBSD UNIX.
Is there a version of LinuxOS that has a file system that can scale beyond the 256 Exa-Byte size storage limit? Some database files are coming very close to the LinuxOS file system limits.
But if I only had one obsolete (all that is available) computer system, I will run [Just Browsing] CD-ROM disc because that is secure, requires no storage, no other utility to access the internet (running just the secured Firefox browser.)
Thanks again.
81 • @ 79 (by lenn on 2017-05-19 15:23:58 GMT from Canada)
> It's a niche market for pre-installed Linux machines so it is difficult for most small Linux focused manufactures to compete with the price & volume of others. At least that's what makes sense from what I understand of the Linux laptop market.<
If any Linux distro boots on a so-called Windows laptop, and it had been happening all the time, all those laptops are (were) Linux-friendly, and the only thing you have to do is install a Linux distro(s) in it. If you bought a Win laptop and either wiped it out and installed a Linux based distro(s) in it, or voted to keep the "other OS" and dual boot, you don't really have to look for Linux pre-installed laptop.
For example, one my laptops were bought as a Win7 one, but since the 2nd month, it is a Linux-only laptop. So, what's the need to buy an expensive Linux pre-installed laptop (mostly made in China)? To help the manufacturer?
There is no such thing as a Linux pre-installed laptop that would only work with Linux. If anyone wants, they can install Win10 on it, or even some hakingtoshes.
82 • Pre-Installed Linux ? - May be a nightmere. (by Linux Blends on 2017-05-19 17:36:39 GMT from Canada)
@81 lenn
"There is no such thing as a Linux pre-installed laptop that would only work with Linux. If anyone wants, they can install Win10 on it, or even some hakingtoshes."
You never know What your pre-installed linux is already bundled with?
Get a cheapo laptop or desktop, Brew your stripped kernel, and install all-wares you need.
If you can't pick a pure blend of GNU-Linux distro (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html) you like. Strip out wares you do not really want and install those you want.
Very recent, I have wiped installed other OSes and installed GNU/Linux pure blend on at-least more than 10 laptops and PCs, including two pentium-II.
83 • One of Many Possible Solutions (by M.Z. on 2017-05-19 19:48:55 GMT from United States)
@81
"So, what's the need to buy an expensive Linux pre-installed laptop (mostly made in China)?"
Try actually reading the post. There are no perfect solutions, but sometimes there are ones that can be better & can be had a reasonable cost. Also some manufacturers do contribute back to Linux & even send patches upstream. I don't claim pre-installed is for everyone, but sometimes it makes perfect sense.
"There is no such thing as a Linux pre-installed laptop that would only work with Linux."
And that's relevant to anything?
"...the only thing you have to do is install a Linux distro(s) in it."
Yes, that's perfectly reasonable for many users. It's still farther from a guarantee that you'll get comparability with a Windows based machine & again you are contributing to the near monopoly status of Windows. I don't claim that anyone must buy Linux pre-installed, just that it's a perfectly reasonable solution if you are in the right price market. If you want to see a bad value go compare most of the top Linux pre-install retailers to a Mac & ask yourself 'why anyone would pay for a Mac?'
There are perfectly reasonable ways to avoid paying into MS, so why go in circles about the same freaking arguments? Do what you want, but don't act like you solution is the only way or that other options are wrong.
84 • @83 (by lenn on 2017-05-19 21:02:49 GMT from Canada)
Why come here, then?
You have your Linux pre-installed laptop and you don't need Distrowatch, do you?
There are 100 distros in the home page and 289 in other page - whole lot distros to check out and choose one for yourself, even for few days.
But, with your pre-installed Linux laptop made in China, you are just like the one, who uses Windows only.
85 • What are we talking about? (by kaczor on 2017-05-19 21:18:36 GMT from United States)
Zareason has 3 laptops, and all are with Ubuntu 16.04, one $799, $1499 and $2048.
Think Penguin has only with either Ubuntu, Kubuntu 16.04 and Korora at $699.
System76 has 4, from $699 to $949 and with Ubuntu again
What are we talking about? Should we use only Ubuntu?
86 • in addition (by kaczor on 2017-05-19 21:21:06 GMT from United States)
System76 has another 3 laptops, also only with Ubuntu from $1399, $1899 and $2799!
Are we really mad to buy such laptops?
87 • Silly (by M.Z. on 2017-05-19 22:40:31 GMT from United States)
@84
I clearly stated above that I had multiple PCs, most of which are recycled & the one Zareason laptop has multiple distros on it. Also shouldn't you be denouncing Jesse for doing the same thing I did? What are you doing here if the DW article this week is so objectionable?
Also are you denouncing the people who answered the poll the way you didn't like (now @ 27%)?
@85
Zareason clearly has options to select from several different distros if you look, & Think Penguin has similar options. What are you talking about?
88 • @87 (by kaczor on 2017-05-19 23:11:38 GMT from United States)
What's so good about Your Zareason laptop against those you recycle, those which were once with the "other OS?" Would you pay $799 for low spec laptop with just Ubuntu?
89 • Linux offers you a very wide variety and vast choices. (by Linux Blends on 2017-05-20 00:27:03 GMT from Canada)
@83 ~ @88 len & kaczor
1) All most all Linux distro offers Live CD, try it before you buy pre-installed.
I see no reason to spend any dime or $$$ crappy smart electronic hardwares.
2) Try to install Linux on discarded and outdated hardware, see how it blends.
3) Linux has more than 1000+++ distros to try.
4) Even if you do not like any from these 1000+++, pick up LFS Linux From Scratch Manual and go little more extra-miles with your own research to brew next generation linux of your taste.
5) RMS GNU Concept, FSF & FOSS kept everything FREE, just use them if you like.
Contribute & Help Linux Community to GROW, if you can.
There plethora choices of distros, pre-installed hardwares, go for one which meets your wallet-budget, and your personal requirements from hardwares & softwares. Apart from personal budget, personal requirements and expectations vary users-to-users.
90 • Litebook (by Simon on 2017-05-20 01:31:19 GMT from New Zealand)
Why, why, WHY would a company "specializing in selling computers with Linux pre-installed" choose to sell a laptop with WiFi hardware that lacks driver support in the Linux kernel?! Full marks to Jesse for discussing it so respectfully, but...what the...? It's like marketing a house as wheelchair-friendly and installing steps instead of a ramp: you have to keep looking again to see if you're missing something...but no, they actually did it. This is not one of the many laptops out there that are sold to run Windows but happen to run Linux perfectly, with no compatibility issues, because all their hardware has drivers in the Linux kernel. No: this is a laptop that they're selling specifically for running Linux...and they decided to ship it with a crucial hardware component with compatibility issues.
Thank you, Jesse, for alerting us to the fact that these companies can actually do this. If I were buying a laptop with Linux pre-installed, I probably wouldn't even have bothered to check the Linux hardware compatibility of the laptop's WiFi: it's just so obvious that it should be compatible (in a "Linux" laptop, for heaven's sake) that I'd have assumed that it was. Now I know better: if I shop for one of these comes-with-Linux laptops, I'll be just as careful with checking all the individual hardware components for Linux compatibility as I would when buying a Windows laptop off the shelf.
91 • Celeron N3050 and Core 2 (by RJA on 2017-05-20 03:35:21 GMT from United States)
@16
The Core 2 Duo T5470 appears to be from 2008 or 2007, because according to the Intel web site, it's 65 nm. And 2008 was a transition year, with both 45 nm and 65 nm processors being manufactured. In 2009, I would have expected 65 nm to be discontinued already...
I like the 45 nm Core 2s better.
And the Celeron N3050 is pathetic for today's standards. Even in 2014, 8 GB of RAM was common. 8 GB wasn't as rare as a Bugatti going down the street!
92 • core 2 duo (by edcoolio on 2017-05-20 05:14:40 GMT from United States)
@91
Wikipedia has the Merom 65nm as produced from 2006-2009, but I think you are probably more accurate about production timeframes. Wikipedia is not always the most accurate of sources.
As for the N3050, you are right. Pathetic.
93 • Non-Intel and Non-AMD Processors (by Linux Blends on 2017-05-20 05:53:43 GMT from Canada)
Non-Intel and Non-AMD processors like MIPS, ARMv8 and OpenSPARC/SPARC 64bit multicore processors needs to boost Linux World. So far, China, Japan, and Russia have their own 64bit low-powered processors used to build SuperComputers running on Linux.
The Computer-World keeps running even without Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Intel or AMD.
94 • Pentium 4 laptop (by lenn on 2017-05-20 07:08:35 GMT from Canada)
Have Pentium 4 UEFI 15.9" touch screen laptop with 8GB ram, 2MB cache. It has the processor N3510 - 4 cores and 4 threads. The N3510 processor is 22nm. Bought it last year new. It had been lying in a warehouse and had Win 8.1 pre-installed. Paid about 40% of its original price. The battery has only 2 elements, but works more than 3.5 hours on one charge. Pretty good one, as most of the laptops with 6 element battery works 4 - 5 hours max. Linux distros are installed in it and dual boots with Win 10. Don't have any trouble with Win10 and doesn't heat up much. But with Linux distros, the heat tend to go up few degrees higher.
If these pre-installed Linux laptop manufacturers can make their machines not heat up much, then buying such a laptop might be justified. For some reason, Linux distros heat up the machines, I have no idea why.
95 • Why indeed? (by Kragle on 2017-05-20 08:25:37 GMT from United States)
Why would vendors make computers that need proprietary third-party binaries to function? Perhaps they've seen so many other vendors doing just that, and believe they need to do the same to compete. Perhaps it's part of the balkanizing proprietary mentality so endemic in the market.
Sometimes imitation isn't flattery, it's just that they don't know any better.
(For a worse case, consider the Linux kernel (versions) used in Android/CyanogenMod/F-droid/Replicant/etc.)
...
Isn't unused RAM a waste of electricity?
...
My next new computer will have DIY materials for multi-OS installations; after a major bork (God Forbid!) I prefer to be able to re-install - updated and custom. That said, I highly prefer hardware that works (best) with Freed Open-Source drivers, not cheap-disposable hacks; happenstance inclusion in some version of a Linux kernel is worth a good bit less.
96 • Ram usage (by Adam on 2017-05-20 10:30:50 GMT from Poland)
Some distro developers are saying that their distro uses less RAM at idle, etc, but if more RAM is used, its good for the computer. RAM sticks use much less energy than the hard disk. It'd be nice if the whole Linux system would move to RAM and work from there, instead of reaching for the hard disk. Some do, and they are very fast.
97 • @90 Ram usage (by mandog on 2017-05-20 13:37:47 GMT from Peru)
2 sides to that theory this is my angle on it I do not like to see wasted ram that is ram that is not req,
its a bit like driving your car with the handbrake on.
KDE has just proved this the latest plasma is down to 350-400 mb at start up leaving the rest of the users ram free to do what it was intended for.
Yes any Linux system can run from Ram but In todays world ram has no advantage over a SDD drive speed wise, don't get me wrong you still need ram, and you only need swap for hibernation,
For older laptops/Desktops low ram is the most important consideration for the users as ram limits are in mb not gigabytes
98 • Are vendors paid enough? (by Linux Blends on 2017-05-20 14:23:12 GMT from Canada)
@95
"Why would vendors make computers that need proprietary third-party binaries to function? Perhaps they've seen so many other vendors doing just that, and believe they need to do the same to compete."
1) Are vendors are paid enough per piece installation inclusion of proprietary third-party binaries blobs? or,
2) Is it like a non-profit charity organization making someone else businesses more successful by harming their own?
"My next new computer will have DIY materials for multi-OS installations;"
Same here, but NO MORE Apple, AMD, IBM, Intel or Microsoft or even Google.
99 • Ram ... (by tricky on 2017-05-20 14:46:54 GMT from Canada)
Ram is absolutely needed to run the computer. When the computer boots up, the processes are loaded in to ram. Hard disk, or SSD is just a storage. If you have more than one Linux distro, check the one that's not running at the moment. You'd notiice that /proc and /sys has nothing in them. Check your running distro's /proc and /sys and you'd find in /sys the wieght of the running system, (mine is 630MB) and when you check the properties of the /proc, you'd find a strange amount > 140.7 TB and with some contents unreadable.
100 • Other Laptop Thoughts (by M.Z. on 2017-05-20 18:03:04 GMT from United States)
@90
"...WHY would a company "specializing in selling computers with Linux pre-installed" choose to sell a laptop with WiFi hardware that lacks driver support in the Linux kernel?!"
It's a big problem with many computer companies in general & it's sad that a company trying to specialize in Linux couldn't find a better solution. It certainly does nothing for their reputation. For my part I felt I went with a more reputable company for my laptop & haven't been disappointed. I think all the top Linux hardware specialists tend to do far better, but it's worth checking out further to avoid these kinds of problems. The Zareason "About" & "FAQ" sections appear to be down at the moment, but I seem to remember getting some very good signals there before buying from them. There are similar signals on the ThinkPenguin site:
"Our products are freedom-compatible: Meaning they will work with just about any free software operating system.
...
The chipsets we use encourage community development and user participation. Users can not be locked into a vendor or product, be forced into an expensive upgrade, or have other digital restrictions placed on them."
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about
That's more the kind of thing I would look for if I had the money, or the inclination for that matter, to get a new laptop. It's unfortunate that the laptop Jesse reviewed had so much less thought put into it.
@88
"What's so good about Your Zareason laptop against those you recycle..."
I have lots of recycled hardware in general, but I only ever had one recycled laptop. In that case not having a broken screen was a giant plus. Of course there was also more RAM in the standard configuration than the chip-set in my secondhand Dell could handle (2GB limit). There was also the modern CPU with twice as many bits & more than one core. Also the Intel HD 4000 graphics were freaking awesome compared to what was on the Dell, & with HDMI out I could watch streaming video on my nice TV.
Basically it wasn't disposable junk. I do not have a lot of nice computers or finer things, but if I was going to invest in a new laptop anyway I'm glad I got a good one that was more compatible with my OSs of choice (as seen in the comment to #90).
"Would you pay $799 for low spec laptop with just Ubuntu?"
That's a joke right? I specifically mentioned a reasonable value in my other posts & general Linux compatibility as well. Also I never really use Ubuntu & had Mint on the laptop I received. I am more willing to put up with Ubuntu being there than Windows, but the hardware has to give me reasonable value & solid compatibility.
101 • Poll re Pre-Installed Linux (by Bill Julian on 2017-05-20 18:10:50 GMT from United States)
I agree with Vukota. I look for -- or build -- Linux-friendly hardware. This let's me decide which Linux variant I wish to install for whatever I am going to be doing.
102 • @100 (by kaczor on 2017-05-20 20:14:50 GMT from United States)
>Also I never really use Ubuntu & had Mint on the laptop I received....<
Well, Mint must be made from Fedora, or OpenSuse...or maybe, Lefebre bought Ubuntu out...Or maybe your Zawhatever pre-installed with Gentoo...
No need to advertise manufacturing companies, when we can get more than enough Linux and BSD distro here at Distrowatch. All of them boots in Bios or Uefi computers.
Buy even an older computer (you might get one free) and just install Openbox based distro, or Puppy Linux, and it'd come to life, and be much faster than any Windows!
103 • My next computer will not have Linux pre-installed (by Pssst on 2017-05-20 21:07:18 GMT from Netherlands)
I prefer to purchase PCs and Laptops empty. No OS on it.
For myself and Friends, I would do the Installation personally.
Why? There is DisnayW. Media Codecs being pushed on.
Now Disnay has made tons of Money. Now they want to push their
Meat on Linux. I do not want them. There fore let me make the decision.
Do not ask me, what I am talking about. Just open your Eyes at the very beginning on the Installation process. No disrespect to anyone. Thank you.
104 • Litebook & Elementary OS (by Simon Wainscott-Plaistowe on 2017-05-20 22:00:08 GMT from New Zealand)
IMHO the Litebook seems an unwise choice. The hardware is incompatible with standard Linux drivers, and Elementary OS is still too immature and buggy for release to the general public. Who'd want one, when just about any stock standard laptop will run Linux with no problems whatsoever? Why didn't they just use standard Linux-compatible hardware with a long-standing well-proven OS such as Linux Mint? This seems to be yet another case of a manufacturer dumping sub-standard junk on the unsuspecting non-technical public, which of course will give said public a negative impression of Linux. And that in turn will help perpetuate the MS desktop monopoly.
105 • Car Analogy (by M.Z. on 2017-05-21 04:51:27 GMT from United States)
@102
"Buy even an older computer..."
Well for that matter, we could all drive around in old rusty cars with 300k miles on them & tiny 3 cylinder engines. It makes perfect economic sense, if you don't mind scrounging up parts. Why would anyone ever buy a new Mustang, let alone a Mercedes or Ferrari. Are we all complete & utter morons for not buying every vehicle & PC to your jalopy taste?
Here in the real world everyone is allowed to set their own budget priorities & buy to their own taste. We know recycling is a virtue & many of us do so when it makes sense, but people buy new things as well & don't need mantras about reuse mindlessly repeated. My formerly new laptop is a few years old now & is going strong & I don't see that changing anytime soon, much like my Chevy with all 4 of it's cylinders & over 100k miles on it. If I get a great new job anytime soon I still see using both for years to come regardless of my budget. Trying to recycle & get good & lasting value out things is great & I try to do so; however, I also live in the real world where people splurge on new things a little now & then, and so long as they think things over & budget properly it's all good.
106 • Small Business Survival (by Linux Blends on 2017-05-21 05:55:08 GMT from Canada)
Epic of WannaCry and WannaASister (which is on the way) made small business survival damn difficult due to ransom.
Many Small Businesses are throwing out PCs and Laptops from their business related activities. And, rolling back to manual paper-work.
You may pick one of these with not too old hardware for cheap, and install linux.
In domestic consumer market PCs and Laptops are getting just for more fun on IoT.
107 • Off Topic asking for Help (by Pssst on 2017-05-21 17:53:30 GMT from United States)
Dear Distrowatch
Should this what I am posting here, not be in your Interest, please delete then this, I have to call by now desperate asking for Help posting on your Platform. And I do not know where to go, but to the Gurus themselves. I do not know call me everything you want. This is some desperate asking for help, because for many many days...Just take quick Look. This is a Copy, from the Forum;
- - - - - - -
Scr.Resolution chang.Can not see Desktop Enviroment.May.2 - 20.2017
#1 Postby !!!! » Tue May 02, 2017 6:18 pm
Hello MXLinux
Situation I am having is this;
Under MX16 (32bit) I went to the Screenresolution Settings and chave changed them from 1366x768 to 1024x768.
Rightaway, a nice white Color all over the Screen reapeared, and I could not see the Desktop Enviroment anymore. After Reboot I went by pressing
CTRl - Alt - F5 or F6 do not remember correctly, logged in as Root in this Terminal mode, tiped in: xrandr -s 0 and nothing happened, so I tiped in:
xrandr -s 1366x768 and nothing happened either (I looked it up on the Net). So after reboot I can not see the Desktop Enviroment anymore.
Hardware; Monitor is Philips 18,5" - ModelNo 191EL2. The PC ( Pentium4) has no additional Graphicscard, only the one from Manuf. On board.
Is there any specific Terminal Command to fix this please ?
I have found on the Forum new post by k...:
SCREEN RESOLUTION PROBLEM
Postby kmathern » Mon May 01, 2017 3:14 pm
sudo make-xorg-conf 1280x1024 -o /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Changing it and applying like this: sudo make-xorg-conf 1366x768 -o /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Would this fix my Problem?
For those who ask, why I did this. I have honestly to answer, that I did this under Windows7 with out never having any problems, just for the sake of checking it out, when Problem shows up. Also the Main Reason is because, on bootup,
left Side of the Screen shows instead of loading it displays oading. So that is why.
Did not know I would run in to this problem. But that is ok. That is how one learns. Besides this Problem, the Distribution MX16 runs very perfectly.
Thank you all for the Work you do and I am waiting patiently for some solution from you. Greetings to all.
- - - - -
As of today, May the 3.2017 I did this:
sudo make-xorg-conf 1366x768 -o /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Something showed like auth...Following by something I did not chave the chance,
to write down. And then the whole Screen turned Green.
I guess no MX16 today either.
- - - - - - - - - - -
As of today, May the 14th of 2017. I did this, with still no results in fixing the problem:
1) On boot viewing my blank light-green scren I press:
Ctrl+Alt+F5
2) Log in as User
3) Open up /etc/default/grub with superuser privileges: sudo nano /etc/default/grub
(GNU nano 2.2.6 opens up)
4) Uncomment/add the following lines:
GRUB_GFXMODE=1024x768x32
GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep
5) Save the file and exit: Ctrl-O, Enter, Ctrl-X,
save changes by selecting Y and hit Enter. (I did this way)
6) Run update-grub as superuser: sudo update-grub
Reboot (sudo reboot), higher-resolution and the oading changed finally to loading. So that is fixed. Now I do not still have my Desktop Enviroment visible.
7) I did on another reboot the updates, and still nothing.
Eight)
I did this now:
sudo make-xorg-conf 1366x768 -o /etc/X11/xorg.conf
(Enter, changes took place)
9) Now I did update and then upgrade. over 200MB Files are being pulled.
After Restarting the System I still have no graphical User Interface visible on login. Displays just in light-green Color blank Screen.
?
- - - - - - - -
It is May the 20th of the year 2017 , by now and I start to really get very p....d!
On this Distribution I have lots of software configured that I like. Because of this Screen S..tt. I can not use it.
There is not single response from you. Nothing. Like hay, we look in to it or hay , s...t happens reinstall.
NOTHING? Really?
108 • Possible solutions (by M.Z. on 2017-05-21 18:37:13 GMT from United States)
@107
Well being that you seem to know the forums are a better place for that kind of thing, my first guess from the few years of related experience I have is that your hardware was hit by one of those regressions that Mint Update manager is designed to prevent. You might try installing again & figuring out how to hold back graphics related updates. It might also be worth doing at least a little checking into possible related issues upstream or at other help sites:
http://forums.debian.net
https://www.linuxquestions.org
Sorry that the forums of your distro let you down & good luck getting it fixed.
109 • #107/108 (by anticapitalista on 2017-05-21 19:33:10 GMT from Greece)
Poster kept editing his/her original post so nobody saw the edits.
Number of Comments: 109
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Grml
Grml is a bootable CD (live CD) based on Debian GNU/Linux. It includes a collection of GNU/Linux software especially for users of text tools and system administrators. It also provides automatic hardware detection. Grml can be used as a rescue system, for analysing systems and networks, or as a working environment. Due to on-the-fly decompression, Grml includes about 2 GB of software and documentation on the CD.
Status: Active
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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0x969CD4E778C7b6549A2B00e34114e0168c86A542 
