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1 • Poll about package management (by mikef90000 on 2017-04-24 01:08:48 GMT from United States) |
The poll does Not have enough options as there is a place for both 'traditional' and 'universal' package management.
The traditional form as we have to come to know it stores applications (groups of packages) more compactly and enables quick installs.
The best uses of the newer 'universal' method have not yet had time to evolve. One use I have not seen yet is to preserve stable and working abandoned apps - someone please package k9copy this way!
2 • Nix package manager (by Bob on 2017-04-24 01:25:49 GMT from United States)
I agree...very good article! Who knows, maybe some years in the future, we might have a utopian Linux world where even ".exe" files can be installed without WINE. (It's just a nice dream...don't beat me up.)
3 • Ubuntu (by bigsky on 2017-04-24 01:39:18 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu !!! You will need a large crowbar to take my Mint Mate install out of my cold dying hands before I ever use that OS again. Have a great summer folks.
4 • Ubuntu (by DaveW on 2017-04-24 02:37:03 GMT from United States)
I jumped ship to Mint Mate when Unity arrived. I don't like Gnome any better. 'Never say never', but at this time, I can't imagine going back to Ubuntu. Cinnamon would be an acceptable alternate DE.
5 • Poll about package management (by Amon on 2017-04-24 03:39:32 GMT from Brazil)
I prefer the current form of packages, the problem is when you try to install an old version of the software, because the libraries are in new versions of those required by the package to be installed, perhaps if it was possible to keep different versions of the same library, Still keeping the possibility of sharing them between programs. Because in this mode of universal packaging, sandbox, there will be several copies of the same library, as in windows, so forget to partition 15GB to the root (/:) of the system.
6 • Ubuntu kills Unity (by sparky on 2017-04-24 03:46:10 GMT from United States)
IMHO Ubuntu Mate or some other Ubuntu derivative would have been better than Gnome 3.
Maybe Kubuntu, now that Ubuntu's UI folks gathered some Qt experience while working on Unity 8.
Or maybe help fixing the bugs of the Deepin Desktop and use this one.
Everything would have been better than Gnome 3 :P
Gnome 3 on official Ubuntu just doesn't compute...
7 • Everything Of Linux (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 03:51:57 GMT from United States)
Im a fairly new user of linux going on 3 months , mostly Linux hopping trying to find my Linux Distro (that I like most)
With that said, as a new user coming into Linux I have some strong opinions of Linux.
What bothers me most is is that everyone is trying to have their own stores and their own thing.
And well its pissing me off...... mind you im a new user, so its a bit frustrating watching and experiencing this, when im trying to break into Linux OS as primary coming from windows 7 x64 Ultimate SP2.
People in linux really need to stop trying to make their own store, and just build (ONE) major store that everyone can go to. Some distros only have command, some have tiny stores with very little usable stores, some make it nearly impossible to install their OS's within systems.
And then you have those that want to have their own stores.
I understand everyone is trying to have their own thing and thats awesome and all.
But too much of everyone trying to have their own thing, puts off new users like myself.
You guys have to work together more and create ONE, ONE destination where people go and shop for apps and themes and things.
Also to Linux MINT Debian Edition 2 - You guys need to work on your distro.
many other distro's when testing the OS within VirtualBox automatically has a code within their OS that sizes the screen like its suppose to..
Your's does NOT Linux Mint Debian Editon, your does not.
You distro is stuck in a 1024x720 and no matter what you do, it cant be fixed.
I tried reaching out to you guys, but all I got was a brush off.
I tried installing your OS LMDE2 onto a 2016 laptop Intel x64 bit system.
and could not, ran into so many problems installing, and one major one was not being able to size the screen to actually be able to press the ENTER Button.
Even people with 5 years Linux experience could not fix the problem.
Please for the sake of this planet, fix your distro please.
There are about 4 other distros that does the same damn thing, its so annoying.
As for the rest of you people - I love linux, I love what they do and how they are open source.
I even supported by purchasing 7 DVD's and 6 Thumb drives just to give a bit of support.
Im not rish but I did what I thought best to support DistroWatch.
Currently im running dual-boot on my laptop 2 linux distros.
A - Linux Mint XFCE regular ubuntu version - (since I couldn't install Debian version)
B - Debian Budgie edition.
just trying to find that right distro thats right for me.
Sorry for my little rant, just ran into lots of problems and no one to talk to thats very into Linux and that I can bounce off of (if you know what I mean)....
Also I really hope VULKAN by what people explain to me and by what I understand,
I hope it changes how Linux is with AAA games.
Its like watching paint dry and waiting for aliens to arrive.
Ill keep chugging along trying out distros (distro hopping) until I find MY distro. :D
PS> please dont hate me, just understand where im coming from :D thanks
8 • @7 • Everything Of Linux. Package management of applications. (by Greg Zeng on 2017-04-24 04:40:05 GMT from Australia)
Linux has the same problem as Windows & other computer systems. Applications & the dependencies are updated at different times. Hence the inventions of Nix, Snap, Flatpak, Appimage, Java, etc. Installing qBittorrent in Linux is ok. But when you ty running qBittorrent in Windows, it will ONLY run on an old version of the Python dependencies. Updating on Windows will always break the operation of that particular application.
I agree with your comment that Linux is not yet ready for the iSheep, who hate flexibility and options. Either Windows OR Mac default setup. Nothing that deviates from either of these. The current Linux users are so arrogantly proud that 98% of computer (desktop) users are NOT using Linux. Like you, I hope that these elitists will one day that there is more to life that being so selfish.
Solus distro hopefully might die soon, if either Snap or Flatpak does not become "fashionable". Solus's love child (Budgie DE) however is so popular in Linux, that is attracting rave reviews. Appimage, Java, etc seem to be failures. Until Linux stops being hostile & elitist, it will stay off the Desktop, which is owned by Windows, still.
However, with the human resource engineering of Google's Chrome & Google's Android, Linux should hopefully be the sole victor of the pocket-devices, defeating Microsoft & Apple.
9 • Opinion Poll (by Chris on 2017-04-24 05:37:20 GMT from Australia)
I was hoping for another option to choose, since I have tried Appimage but without success. I did try the suggested application which did work. But when I tried it on the application that I wanted I had lots of problems. Which I assumed might have been something that I did wrong so I tried it again. Also without success so I gave up. Luckily the application that I wanted I was able to download at a later date using the normal method. For those wondering what the application was its the latest version of Open Shot Video.
10 • It's a Twisted Land Mr Twsted (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-04-24 05:48:11 GMT from United States)
Hi @7 and welcome to distroland where everyone has opinions but not information. Yours should not be strong after 3 months. I did not develop opinions for years. Now I have lots, StartPage my handle. Among them: Debian sucks, Ubuntu worse.
Nobody says 'store' in these parts without money changing hands. That's phone app lingo. We say 'repositories,' repos for short. Maybe I do not get your drift but I think repos are your subject. If you feel adventuresome in Linux, go have a look at Docker, you might enjoy it more than VMs.
For everyday you probably want PCLinuxOS.com. Its community and repos are large and friendly. It likely has all the drivers you want. I don't know about VM support, but they'll help you for sure. Here are the links.
Official Editions (MATE, KDE)
Community Editions (XFCE, LXDE, LXQT, TDE, KDE4)
@8 Weird. I've never found any Linux enthusiasts enjoying their marketplace minority status.
11 • @7 and 8 -- Again(st) frustrations (by al on 2017-04-24 07:18:47 GMT from Germany)
You are not alone with your general comments which everybody can read here and there on the internet mostly coming from users who do not want to invest time in doing homework, and then complaining that teachers are bad (just to use another picture than store and the like).
Personally, I am tired of such comments which are in no way constructive critique, just 2 cents frustrations that lead to misplaced rants. Against frustrations, there is a very simple solution: give yourself a gift, do not use linux, and you will feel a lot better. Because, indeed, there is no linux derivative distribution which is a turn-key system, none which would do the job for you, e.g. learn for you something new, and package it the way that feeds your needs without any involvement from your part.
Linux is about learning, asking question, experimenting, and discovering new ways not only to deal with technology, but to organize your daily tasks at your computer. You have distributions that go a long way taking you by the hand, so that you can better discover their way to deal with your machine. And you have other ones which need more involvement but give you in return more knowledge about how to get control over your machine.
It impresses me all the time how people who do not invest time and effort to understand something call their authors 'elitists' - and mix up all sort of things like android and linux etc. I don't know, read a book or some pages on the internet, get some more information before if it is not too much for you.
12 • Unity 2D (by meanpt on 2017-04-24 07:45:22 GMT from Europe)
I kept and used an Ubuntu installation while Unity 2D were mantained and wasn't showing major problems while running the more recent versions of applications. I always hated the slugishness of the "3D" main version and mostly the increased thermal peaks' torture it submitted my hardware to.
13 • Early Ubuntu Netbook Edition vs Unity (by Chris on 2017-04-24 08:02:42 GMT from New Zealand)
I was an early user of Ubuntu Netbook edition I think version 10, in fact, it is still one of my
favorites. It managed to get everything right with visual presentation with
what then became the Unity desktop. Edition after edition, year after year
of Unity that was just plain ugly, vs netbook edition that was so nice. I was dismayed
asking myself , how can they not see how dreadful unity looked, but to no avail.
If it ever is re visted in some form please make it like the early netbook edition,
that was so attractive.
14 • Linux is difficult? (by Dave Postles on 2017-04-24 08:26:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm a relative newcomer to Linux - started around 2002. I've had to learn an enormous amount, but all truly beneficial. No doubt at some stage, I will be hacked or some similar misfortune, but if I was still with Windows I would, like most people, still be a sucker waiting for the punch. Anyone who believes that Windows is a coherent system should, IMHO, remember all the leveraging out of little companies to introduce their intricacies into Windows and the absolute mess it made because it did not have their expertise (not just thinking of AV here). These days, you need to know what's under the hood and out there. Three further points: your high-street kit comes pre-loaded with Windows tweaked for that kit by your vendor; try installing a Windows OEM edition (tried that once - almost died from frustration); does Windows have a live system to experiment? I'm not a techie; I'm an historian.
15 • Give A n00b Some Credit (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2017-04-24 08:31:12 GMT from United States)
@11 My retort may offend.
(1) Value input from n00bs if only to see what Joe Sixpack and Sally Soccermom think when they hit actual usage. We need this info.
(2) The man has a point on themes and fonts. He may not get repos yet but I see his point on themes and fonts. No distro packages them well or good selection. We use 'stores' called xfce-look.org and similar. Indy artists post themes and fonts on their own websites. It's a mess out there for themes and fonts. If all it takes to make n00bs happy are themes and fonts, why the h**l aren't we packaging them ALL in the distros? I mean like, ALL of deviant art? Can't it be scripted or something?
(3) About homework. UNIX and Linux man pages SUCK. And I mean, they REALLY SUCK BADLY. They're written by geeks for geeks proud to be geeks who think other geeks want to study recursive descent syntax parsing and keyboard shortcuts. Gimme a break. If I were to correct one thing in Linux it would be man pages. Most improve 500% just putting examples first instead of listing every possible switch and its corner cases. There are some projects going along these lines (bro pages? tldr pages?). But yeah, recommend intro books SO N00BS DON'T WASTE TIME WITH AWFUL MAN PAGES THINKING THAT'S HOW TO LEARN LINUX.
16 • man pages (by DaveT on 2017-04-24 09:12:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
After 30 years of working on UNIX, assorted BSDs and Linux I have just about got used to the man pages. Those with useful examples of usage are few and far between. The interweb gives more help than the man pages!
17 • @15 Some credit -- why? (by al on 2017-04-24 09:51:17 GMT from Germany)
It's not offending, it simply completely misses the point:
1. better knowledge of what you can do with your system/applications, which means a lot -- you can learn to be independent with it solving yourself your problems, protecting yourself against attacks, being more productive daily with applications not staying on your way, making more with less junk etc. etc. A concrete example: learn an editor like vim, or emacs, or geany, learn how you can edit on the basis of flat text files large documents of every type (code, report, poetry), and a lot of them, converting them in a snap into doc, rtf, pdf files, editing them in a terminal-server style when you are on your way with a netbook or your smartphone etc. etc. Generalize this example to other applications (mail, internet, tabulators, maths etc.) and you get the idea.
2. your problem with themes has nothing to do with linux, but with your ability to look for them here and there; they are a plenty of themes that are not restricted to xfce-look.org or deviant art; fonts -- mainstream distributions have all what you need, and probably more than you can expect, but obviously if you don't look for fonts in the package manager of your distribution or on the internet (cf. distrowatch report last week), you won't get them.
3. as said: if you don't want to read, don't do it, and stay away from linux or unix based distributions because they are not for you. Actually, man pages are professional very good writings for someone who want to know how a given application works, and how to customize it. But you also have a lot of how-to made by a lot of people -- and sometimes noobs, as you label yourself -- which can be followed without difficulty and apply in minutes.
This is probably non sense for you, because you don't want to invest a minimal amount of time and effort in order to learn something. Feel free to do so, but don't blame others that spend time and effort in order to continuously deliver to anybody efficient and well documented non profit software.
Side note: Do you seriously think that people working at those distros have to give you credit because they need people like you to use their stuff? Are you joking?
18 • Deepin (by Ari Torres on 2017-04-24 10:43:06 GMT from United States)
I finally found a Distro that I like. Who cares? nowadays everything is made in China. :)
19 • @7 Twted (by karibou on 2017-04-24 10:56:22 GMT from Canada)
Hi and welcome to Linux and Distrowatch. I would like to address your rant on LMDE2 in a friendly way. You state that your laptop is fairly new (2016); assuming it is Intel based it is probably running either the Skylake chipset or the Kabelake chipset. If this is the case, you cannot install LMDE2 because
a) LMDE2 is packaged with the 3.16 version of the kernel which does not support the latest Intel chipsets
b) you need a distro that is packaged with at least a 4.4 version of the kernel, higher is better.
How I know? In August 2016 I bought a brand new HP laptop running the Intel Skylake chipset. I almost became bald until I found out that LMDE2 would never install due to the older version of the kernel. So I said aurevoir LMDE and installed KaOS currently running kernel version 4.10.9-1. Been very happy ever since I switched. Wishing you the best of luck and Happy Linuxing ;)
20 • @7 Linux World (by Pssst on 2017-04-24 11:22:59 GMT from Netherlands)
@7 Welcome to the Linux World.
I have left my frustrations with Linux DIstributions long ago behind, as I
remember having even more frustrations by using Win....
It is totaly normal to be frustrated at the beginning from time to time, but not all the time.
Distrohopping will stop as time pases by. (It may take years..)
Nr.10 by Arch Watcher is recom.You PclinuxOS. I would not. Just my personal opinion. This Distro has never worked for me.
I used Mint Debian based and Kicked it out from my system within one day.
I wish Mint would put more energy in to their Debian version, but they are
very focused on Cinnamon and that is also very ok.
Mint xfce , was just as heavy as Mint Mate in my experiance. Mint is over one GB in download amd once installed there is barly anything on it. Do not know what there is taking all the ISO space up...?
In my Opinion if you like Mint, the best Mint option is Cinnamon. And maybe for some the KDE edit.
Linux Mint 18.1 "Serena" - Cinnamon (64-bit) - 1.7GB
Linux Mint 18.1 "Serena" - KDE (64-bit) - 1.9GB
Supported until Apr.2021
(Also you will outgrow Mint very fast, but its great for the new Users, and perhaps experianced Developer, but one outgrows it fast)
For School and Students or as daily Driver I like:
uberstudent-4.3-xfce-amd64 - 2.9GB in download and tons of tools to work with. Takes only little time to get used to. This release is little old, so probably there are tons of Updates after Install.
Also some Distros to look at:
Ubuntu Mate / Peppermint / New release of LXLE / and anything that is Debian without systemd. Take look at those. Regarding systemd. I have heared that systemd can also serve cup of Coffe on startup, and I have no need for it, so that I am not using it. Just me use it if you like.
This is just my personal opinion, we all have our opinions. Am sure you will have yours also changing as Time goes by. I wanted to give you something to work with, so you do not stand there frustrated.
Also remember that Linux World is not Micro.... and Mac. But Linux in time will eat them up. Micros..., will soon engage in new Business, selling Pencils down the Street. Greed will eat them from the inside out. If they like it, then that is ok to. Works well for them.
Reg.My uneducated self teached English;
Should anyone see huge grammar mistakes in my little poem here, you can keep them for free. I apologize for my Grammar Street English.
Just wanted to help. Thank you Distrowatch for running your Platform, and the Work you do.
Pssst: Dont tell anyone...BillG. Is using Linux
21 • Re@ #7- Some Ideas.. (by brad on 2017-04-24 11:46:42 GMT from United States)
-PcLinuxOs is a great distro for beginners.
-Along with Mint/stable LTS less breakage, unless you over do it with PPA's but with mint that wont exactly be necessary
-There's also Manjaro (a Lil more involved, but it's the "LINUX MINT" of the arch based distros.
-There's lots of "how-to's" to get the perfect desktop w/various distros out there.
-I distro-hopped all over the place.. Mandriva/pclinuxos/Sabayon/Ubuntu/Mint/Manjaro/Arch.. after all my work.. and getting the "You're not smart enough for Arch" "RTFM" comments.. I stuck with arch..
-You'll learn and figure things out.. no matter what distro you use, if you have issues, Ubuntu forums are invaluable resources. If for nothing else, to get you pointed in the right direction for Googlin' answers to whatever's going wrong with the distro you're using.
*Time Wounds All Heels*
22 • @7 VirtualBox (by OhioJoe on 2017-04-24 11:49:50 GMT from United States)
VirtualBox is great and useful. Some distros run full screen and some run in a small box until you run the guest additions. Sometimes a hard disk install is more useful. Or you could make a live USB to check it out. Quote "Even people with 5 years Linux experience could not fix the problem." I have not used Linux Mint Debian Edition 2, but I will give it a shot. Most Linux users are helpful if you ask nicely at the correct place and be patient. It may take a few days for the right person to see your post.
23 • Opinion Poll (by dragonmouth on 2017-04-24 12:00:58 GMT from United States)
I will not use a "universal package manager" until Linux developers decide on one TRULY universal package manager, meaning one that I can use it to manage the software on ALL 800+ distributions in the DW database. Until then I will continue to use whatever package manager was developed for a particular distro.
24 • Replay to post #19 and #11 (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 12:01:30 GMT from United States)
My CPU is a Intel Dual Core N3060
the laptop is a Asus E402SA - The sticker on the bottom of the laptop says
manufactured 2016 in China.
An experienced Linux veteran user came to the conclusion that the Distro itself has a problem with resolution itself.
When I install the regular version of MINT it has no problems what so ever, it installs quickly and without any fuss.
But on the other hand installing Linux MINT Debian Edition, resolution is stuck at
1024x768 on both installing it on actual hardware as well as installing it to test it on VirtualBox.
Also when playing around with the TAB key to force navigate within LMDE2
to get it to install, once installed all texts in LMDE2 are pixelated.
I have pictures & screenshots of everything. - its horrid the way the distro is acting.
I even redownloaded it 3 times and did the (sha) check, distro says it has not been tampered with.
In the future I plan on making a video and posting on youtube so people can see
what a newbie goes through and the headaches that a newbie should not go through
just to install an operating system. - There are only a hand full of distro's that do this problem.
most distros installs quickly and effortlessly without and fuss,
then there are distros that make you want to bang your head on a keyboard a million times.
And one would have hoped that by now 2017, all this nonsense would have been worked out already.
Anyways..... hopefully people at Linux MINT Debian Edition see's this and fixes it.
I will look into KaOS as I do with many other OS, as I am distro hoping trying to find one I really really like for my daily primary driver.
It was awesome meeting Linus in NY. and thanks I will do my best Linuxing :D
Response to #11
It is people like you as to the reason why the general population including major software & gaming companies don't have any respect for Linux OS. People like you who think that Linux was made ONLY for learning and experimenting and the reason why most call Linux users
("The Tinkerers Geeks"). Its people like you that they have that name for Linux users
and why its so hard for other companies to have any kind of respect at all for Linux.
And the reason why its so damn hard for Linux to grow properly.
Linus did not make Linux for that reason, Linus made Linux for the reason to have
a different OS that was not proprietary and enclosed within itself. Linux is suppose to liberating people from proprietary companies OSs. It was not made just as you say and I quote "For Learning and Asking Questions". basically by what you say "Tinkerers"
For that Linux would have kept Linux for himself. (In Linus's Own Words when I met him in NY)
Also I did my research. spent days on the net looking for answers for my problems
but did not find any answers, only to be told by a 5 year veteran linux user that has informed me that the LMDE is broken in some areas and not properly coded and packaged properly and having the Live CD only confine itself to 1024x768 resolution,
while other distro's dont have this problem except a hand full which includes LMDE2
and in some screens making it impossible to view certain sections of the screen because of the confined resolution. - Again, an experienced 5 year hardcore linux user tested this and concluded that.
I stayed up hours on end on my own googling my ass of trying to find answers. so to say I did nothing is ignorant to say because you was not next to me in any shape way or form to come to that conclusion. and this crap happened on 4 different systems.
And even though I have 3 months as a linux user I am ALLOWED to have strong opinions, because as a new user its suppose to be much easier than this and not such a pain in the ass and me spending an entire week trying to find answers.
I should be able to install an Operating System without going through hell and back to get it to work. - Now I know why your general peers and major companies have such as strong harsh nickname for linux users such as "The Tinkerers Geeks"
Its because people like you who think Linux was only made to learn and ask questions. - Well you are wrong.... Linux is an Operating System and thats how Linus made it to be. - Dont believe me, ask him yourself.
Its a shame that people like you is telling me to get off of linux as well.
And then to tell me that Linux is for learning and asking questions.....LOL
and with YOUR assumption that I didn't google anything and just sat here waiting for people to do things for me.
Shame on you.....
25 • @21 (by mono on 2017-04-24 12:12:27 GMT from France)
About Manjaro and beginners, it's been recently discussed a lot in the forums. The front page might claim it super user-friendly and stuff, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone with only 3 months of Linux experience. Manjaro might not be Arch, but you still need a bit of effort to learn about how it works and how to use it. If you're ready to do that and are willing to read the forum posts before updates, sure, why not, but I doubt most people coming from Redmond are in that state of mind. Better avoid starting with rolling release distros and stick to the fool-proof ones such as Mint and make the switch later if needed.
26 • @11: al (by dragonmouth on 2017-04-24 12:17:53 GMT from United States)
You are a perfect example of why Linux noobs complain that the Linux community is rude and arrogant. Your elitist 'Love or or leave it!' attitude never was and never will be popular. Not everybody lives, breathes and bleeds Linux as you seem to. Not everybody was born knowing Linux backwards and forwards. All of us were once novices in everything we do.
27 • Thanks for everyone else replying, its appreciated :D (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 12:18:16 GMT from United States)
for everyone else that responded and gave a few links.
Thanks for everyone else replying, its appreciated :D
Thank you Distrowatch for running your Platform, and the Work you do. :D
Also, I did try PSLinuxOS, I didnt like it. I dont know something about it I didnt feel was right for me.
I still have the (iso) but I uninstalled it from my hypervisor (VirtualBox)
and my hardware computer and trying other distro's :D
@ #20 Pssst
You are correct, Mint Debian needs work. Im currently using Mint XFCE on my laptop
dual booting with Debian Budgie. just trying it out by using it daily and see what I dont and do like about those distros.
I have tried Peppermint 7, MX-16, Manjaro (in different flavors), OpenSUSE, OBRevenge, Solus, Ubuntu MATE (but also waiting for v18), Debian 8 and Fedora 25 XFCE edition.
ooh and Antergos 17.4 (different flavors)....LOL
So far im only liking 4 of them.
28 • How I changed Screen Resolution in Netrunner 17.03. (by OS2_user on 2017-04-24 12:19:14 GMT from United States)
Was at 1024x768 after fresh install; monitor does 1600x900 but no choices offered, just showed "VGA 0"...
3rd time system was booted on that install I clicked one of the four icons on Desktop, the "readme"...
Firefox opened. I had network switch turned off to prevent anything calling home. Fooled around cleaning up Firefox; closed it...
Wanted rid of "readme", so right click, then "Delete".
Icon remains! Repeat the above. Icon went away.
Now I see a delete dialog in task bar! What the hell??? -- Open, then click "Delete".
Hmm. Still in task bar. -- But now Desktop is TOTALLY DEAD! -- Pressing power button got immediately to "shutdown" counter...
Reboot. ... HEY. It's at full resolution! Whoopee! Now I can run Virtual Box decently!
It's non-intuitive to me, but yes, CAN do it if find the secret Linux ritual.
Now, that's simply relating facts, and with far less snark than deserves.
Last week I complained never found how in PCLinux 2014.12 to make screen res stay set. Two examples of failing on basic element that should be rock-solid.
I think it fair to say that there's growing unease that problems with Linux GUIs are multiplying, not becoming fewer, with more "development".
29 • @7: Twstd @20: Pssst (by dragonmouth on 2017-04-24 12:51:46 GMT from United States)
I have been a Linux user for over 10 years and over that time I have come to pretty much the same conclusion as you. FYI, in case you have not yet learned it, one of the basic tenets of Linux is 'Do your own thing'. That is one of its greatest strengths but also one of its greatest weaknesses. It leads to innovative software being developed but it also leads to every Tom, Dick and Harry making their own spin of Ubuntu, or four competing 'universal' package managers.
Stick with Linux and don't let arrogant elitists like al from #11 spoil Linux for you.
Just because PCLinuxOS has not worked out for you does not mean it won't work out for anybody else. I have been using PCLOS without any problems for the last three years. OTOH, I would not touch Ubuntu or any of its derivatives if my life depended on it. But that's neither here nor there. These are only our personal opinions.
"Distrohopping will stop as time pases by. "
Not necessarily. Some of us find that a distro to use easily and some of use keep searching forever. And then there are those that jump from distro to distro out of habit. :-)
30 • @24 and 26 (by al on 2017-04-24 12:56:39 GMT from Germany)
It is quiet interesting how you try to make out of basic statements outrageous comments, but it does not work with me, and neither does it with anybody having spent some time and effort to get to grips with some linux distros. And again, it might hurt to recall to someone who is writing rants here how thinks goes on when you are new to linux -- yes, you have to spend time to read things on the man pages and on the internet, you have to know your needs, and to write one or two things on the command line, and that's where things begin to be productive and interesting for you. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. If you want to do it, then show what you have gotten by yourself, and anybody will be happy to help (as you can see by yourself in these comments). In my first times with a linux distro, I have spent weeks and months to look for things here and there. I ran, too, into terrible frustrations wanting to slap the first linux geekos around a forum telling me what I am telling you. And in the end, I learned to ask questions, to describe a problem with technical data more useful for the ones knowing better this or that distro than me, and have begin to learn a lot thanks to such people. Indeed, "Not everybody was born knowing Linux backwards and forwards. All of us were once novices in everything we do". So, you know where to begin.
31 • Noobs who want Linux to be Windows (by sydneyj on 2017-04-24 12:59:54 GMT from United States)
@7 Your problems are of the PEBCAK variety, and you have an arrogant attitude. You would be happier with Windows.
Incidentally, I have LMDE running in a VM right now. Resolution is 1920x1080.
32 • @13 Netbook edition (by denethor on 2017-04-24 13:05:33 GMT from Serbia)
I totally agree with you. It was absolutely beautiful, although a little heavy on the netbook resources of that era. It was great for a netbook. But for a desktop or a large screen laptop, probably not...
33 • et al (by dragonmouth on 2017-04-24 13:07:04 GMT from United States)
Not everybody is as brilliant as you. It takes some people a little longer than 5 minutes to master Linux.
Do you know the definition of the word "ass-u-me"? Because you are making a lot of assumption about people and things you know nothing about.
34 • @18 Deepin (by denethor on 2017-04-24 13:16:20 GMT from Serbia)
I loved version 2014.3. I still use it all the time on my daily use laptop. It was beautiful and also light on resources. In addition, it was based on an LTS version (albeit ubuntu). I was excited when they announced that they are moving to debian basis, but they should have gone for the debian stable... The problematic issues are so many and each new version introduces new ones, check their forum and you will see. I decided to try once again their latest 15.4 version yesterday and although it is even more pretty, it use approx. 800mb at idle after cold boot! And the number exceeds the 1gb very quickly after some normal use, again at idle with previous opened apps clossed! MEmory leaks... The 2014.3 uses merely 260mb... I will not try it again anytime soon. Pity for this distro, they have the best dde. I hope debian includes it soon, maybe in the next stable after stretch).
35 • @33 (by al on 2017-04-24 13:16:44 GMT from Germany)
I am not saying anything else -- one has to assume the learning curve, and it is not a thing that takes you 5 minutes, one or two weeks. So, there is no point to write rants. Instead, trying to detail a problem in technical terms in order to get accurate help is a better challenge, and it takes you on the right track.
36 • @18 Deepin made in China (by denethor on 2017-04-24 13:20:46 GMT from Serbia)
As for the part that is made in China, I have to say that I trust it a bit more than a US based distro after Snowden! :-) Same with the russian ROSA...
37 • @7 Reply to post #24 (by Karibou on 2017-04-24 13:21:08 GMT from Canada)
OK, your Asus laptop is either running a Celeron or Pentiom N3xxx series CPU powered by Intel 14nm architecture Braswell chips for entry-level segment computing products and first released in mid-2015 with C-core stepping. In 2016 Intel refreshed the embedded Braswell lineup with D-stepping chips. Yours being N3060 thus sports the refreshed D-stepping chips released to market in early 2016.
It is no wonder that the Ubuntu-based version of Mint runs well: it is compiled with the 4.4 version of the kernel, see this link https://www.linuxmint.com/pictures/screenshots/serena/kernels.png
This 4.4 version of the kernel supports newer CPUs and graphics chipsets.
As mentioned in my previous post, LMDE2 is based on Debian8-Jessie compiled with the 3.16 version of the kernel with no support for newer Intel chipsets be it Braswell or Skylake or KabeLake. Hope this helps.
38 • @27 Twsted... (by kaczor on 2017-04-24 13:25:18 GMT from Germany)
If you are coming to the Linux World, be ready to tinker a bit. And, that's the beauty of it.
Btw you'd have to learn the distro names. There is no such thing as PSLinuxOS or Debian Budgie.
Also, be patient. We have been doing just that for ages...
39 • @27 @38 (by denethor on 2017-04-24 13:31:06 GMT from Serbia)
You could use newer kernel from the debian backports in LMDE2 to solve any hardware issues... But since you are newbie, maybe you will find this installation intimidating although it is not. Anyway, wait for the new debian stable and you should be fine. Debian rules!
40 • Ubuntu (by SteveS on 2017-04-24 13:33:52 GMT from United States)
I liked your Ubuntu review - you are one of the few reviewers to point out the ergonomic efficiency of Unity compared to the traditional walk-through-the-menu style desktops (which is pretty much everything else, and with trivial variations). Once I used Unity long enough to catch on to it I found it annoying to use other desktops that require wild mousing, step-by-step menu use, "hot" corner disappearing docks and other inefficient steps to get where you want to be.
I hope somebody with understanding and competence can continue its development... it offers a lot more than interfaces that are simply another take on the same old Windows-based ergonomics.
41 • Everything of Linux (by Sofia Smith on 2017-04-24 13:43:08 GMT from Spain)
For me Linux is a long road.
First, I tryed Mint Cinnamon. Later xfce. Easy. Tryed knoppix for usb.
Later Ubuntu, lubuntu, xubuntu, peppermint, ... and others ubuntu derivatives.
Then, Debian stable. Later debian testing and sid... and others debian derivatives.
Later, Fedora. Korora. And Centos and Scientific Linux.
And then I climb the big mountains: Arch Linux, Slackware and ... finally Gentoo.
My conclusion: I've had a lot of fun and I learned a lot of Linux in this process.
And what distro I use to use:
For my mother: mint 18.1 cinnamon.
For my very old desktop pc: debian stable lxde (256 ram)
For my laptop: dual boot = arch linux + slackware
Why? IMHO is the best bleeding edge distro and the more stable distro.
Every linux distro has especific application like the cars.
For mountains, Jeep. For highways (german), Porsche. For ecologics, Prius (or Tesla).
42 • In My Opinion, Your Are Using The Wrong Methods In Your Search ie Distro Nirvava (by sasdthoh on 2017-04-24 14:23:10 GMT from United States)
This comment is directed to #7 (Twisted USA)
In my opinion, you are not using what I call "right thinking" in you search, as a new Linux user, to find the Linux distro that meets your current needs. I will not waste everyone's time detailing my history with Linux as a whole and the years I have in OS work. Please understand that I speak with enough experience to make reasonable assessments and recommendations concerning your choice of Linux distribution for your NEW Linux experience level.
First, a process of elimination will narrow down your choices to a few perfect selections, each fulfilling your daily needs.
Let's look at the BASE LINUX PLATFORMS. All variants are built upon what I call master Linux distributions.
Linux From Scratch Based Distros - New Users run away as fast as possible.
Gentoo Based Distros - New users run away as fast as possible
Slackware Based Distros - New user run but has possibilities as you gain some experience.
Arch Based Distros - New users run but choices are available to ease your pain with a little experience. (ie: Manjaro)
Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Compatible Based Distros - New user forget it!
Fedora Based Distros (Red Hat Community based) - New user could use but recommend not without some level of experience.
Debian Based Distros (ie: 100% compatible with current Debian upline and my personal daily driver) - New users run at first but there are choices to ease your newbie pain. (ie: Solydxk, MX-16, Sparky Linux; I recommend a little experience)
Ubuntu and Ubuntu Variant Based Distros (ie: Linux Mint and others) - There are many very fine Ubuntu variants that would suit your needs.
HOWEVER, I believe every experienced professional and hard core Linux user will agree that you should start your journey with one of the following choices depending upon the color of "paint you like on your house."
Ubuntu Based or Variants:
Ubuntu 64-bit Mate Edition or Xfce Edition
Linux Mint 64-bit Mate Edition or Xfce Edition
Linux Lite 64-bit Mate Edition or Cinnamon Edition or Xfce Edition
All are Ubuntu based with desktop environments that your great, great, great grandma can easily use and work out of the box, no fuss, no muss, with fine software choices and a world of support and information available everywhere
Once you get your "feet wet", then you can go "distro hopping" and experiment with the tremendous number of choices offered in the Linux world.
UNTIL THEN, however, I think you are better off sticking with my recommendations. Who knows, you may be happy forever with the recommended choices listed.
REMEMBER DISTROWATCH REGULARS, by his own admission he is NEW to Linux. We can ease the newbie into other choices once he is ready.
Paul ( sasdthoh )
43 • Reply to a few (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 14:25:24 GMT from United States)
Yaa, im not going to let those elitist spoil it for me.
They think Linux is only built for learning and tinkering. People don't understand
that once linux users treat linux more seriously and like an OS and not like a
Tinker geekout station OS then the population will take Linux more serious. :D
Incase you didnt catch the part, i came from windows (so haa).
Its either Linux or Mac. and yes MAC as a new user took me 15 minutes to learn
didnt have to go through so much crap like im doing now. and yes I know mac is UNIX.
im giving Linux a try because i spoke with Linus and he was informative :)
Thanks :D \o/
ya a bit of typo there due to dealing with lots of distros...lol
I meant to say - PCLinuxOS and Ubuntu Budgie 17.04
And yes im trying my best to be patient, its just that some distros anger me....lol
im not afraid of cmdline typing. - I just dont want to spent half the day doing it...lol
I dont know how to backport or update the kernel, but ill look it up on youtube to see if I can figure it out.
If I see its too much of a pain in the ass to do, ill stop trying and wait for new stable debian version to come out.
I was going to use Ubuntu, but I wanted to stay as close as possible to Debian itself
since its the main distro everyone forks are coming from. so thats why I was going more for the debian version instead of the ubuntu version.
thanks to Pssst, Karibou, Denethor & a few others for helping :)
Oh and ya, im staying away from distro's that are arch based.
Those gave me headaches, i find debian based distro's are much easier to deal with.
I love how manjaro looks and all, but dont want to deal with the headaches.
maybe in the future when I understand it better and their AUR system and all that stuff.
a week ago I played with MAC and picked it up super fast.
it was a breeze but ive been told Linux is getting much easier for users.
Specially if they are coming from windows.
44 • Correction on Last Post (by sasdthoh on 2017-04-24 14:30:19 GMT from United States)
Sorry but when listing the three choices, I listed Linux Lite with Mate and Cinnamon. It is an Xfce variant. I meant the Linux Mint choice to offer the three versions, Mate, Cinnamon, and Xfce.
Sorry for mixing the two lines. a (duh moment)
Paul ( sasdthoh )
45 • kernel changes easy to use (by dmacleo on 2017-04-24 14:34:06 GMT from United States)
saw some mentions of changing kernels and that it may be difficult.
UKUU works very easy on deb based systems
tested on ubuntu, mint, debain with no issues, only oddity is SOMETIMES the first attempt fails (it will show error in terminal when running) but immediately clicking install again on same kernel works and from then on any install works.
just need to make sure kernel itself has no known issues with your hardware.
46 • correction (by dmacleo on 2017-04-24 14:36:27 GMT from United States)
that should say ukuu works on ubutu based systems even though I did test on debian and it seemed fine
47 • The path (by sydneyj on 2017-04-24 14:40:44 GMT from United States)
@41 Sofia, I loved your post. I read it with a big smile, because it closely mirrors my own path. Started with Mint/Cinnamon, used a lot of distros in adjunct on VMs, then "climbed the big mountains". Great respect for Gentoo, but the build times frustrated me, so I ended up with Arch/Mate, and won't ever leave. I do triple-boot with Mint 18 (nostalgia), Win 7 (Apple phone > itunes), and (true) Arch as daily driver. I have LMDE on my wife's machine, and on a VM.
Enjoyed your post, best of luck.
48 • Goodbye Unity? (by Garon on 2017-04-24 14:45:04 GMT from United States)
I hope not. Maybe we can have a community edition, "Ubuntu Unity Edition". Anything is possible in the Linux world. As far as package managers goes I really love Synaptic. Its a good front end for Apt.
49 • @7 LMDE screen resolution (by far2fish on 2017-04-24 14:45:31 GMT from Denmark)
I have never used LMDE, but I am a frequent VirtualBox user. It sounds to me that you need to install virtualbox guest additions for LMDE2 (or Debian). I am 99% that is the issue.
I would also advice you to install xrandr, which will show you whihc resolutions your virtual display supports. Simply run 'xrandr' from the terminal after install to show you the name of your virtual display and which resolutions it supports.
Since you admit being a Linux newcomer I would suggest you start with a newcomer friendly distro instead. LMDE is for more advanced (at least intermediate) users.
Manjaro, Linux Mint, Ubuntu would fit that description. Welcome to Linux by the way.
50 • Taking info into consideration (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 14:49:17 GMT from United States)
thx for the info - im taking the info into consideration.
currently using - ( Linux Mint 64-bit Mate Edition or Xfce Edition )
I really wanted to use LMDE2 since it has debian.
dual booting with Ubuntu Budgie.
And then playing with other distro's on hypervisor to weed out what I do and dont like.
51 • @43 Twsted (by lenn on 2017-04-24 15:02:29 GMT from Canada)
> a week ago I played with MAC and picked it up super fast.<
Well pal, to play with a Mac, either you have to buy the machine, or have a pal, who'd give it to you. In Linux, you just just try it live, not even have to install it. And, its FREE! Have you ever seen a OS X or Mac free?
@ 41 Sofia, your post brought a smile. I started with Ubuntu 4.10 and gone a long way. Even created few distros based on Debian, Ubuntu and Devuan.
52 • Finding the "right" distro (by Jordan on 2017-04-24 15:06:36 GMT from United States)
Take your time. ;)
Spend time with many, and make sure you don't dismiss distros that seem to be in the "wrong category," etc.
Ignore "expert" advice! "Experts" can rattle on and on about Arch based vs Gentoo based vs Debian based etc. None of those people know you and what your comfort zone is because YOU don't yet know what your comfort zone is with regard to linux. Many linux newbies seek Windows like distros for a long time and then evolve to what seems right for them.
I went from Windows to Red Hat to Mandrake to Vector to PCLinuxOS and on and on through Ubuntu (yuck) and finally settled in with Korora on one machine and Solus on another.
Take your time. ;)
53 • Response to #41 and #49 (by twsted on 2017-04-24 15:12:10 GMT from United States)
nope its not virtual guest additions or Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack
thats not the issue. as they are both installed since I first installed virtualbox 9 months ago. I will try out that xrandr though, see if that helps any.
thanks for the info.
thanks for all that info. its very appreciated :D
I dont want people to think i have no clue about computers, electronics or any derivatives thereof.
Im an audio & electronics engineer and my first job back in the day after graduating college in computer science was to work for motorola.
And currently work as an audio and electronics engineer for mixing console companies that do concerts and major movie companies. So I don't want people here to think im some stupid 90 old naive man that doesnt know current technologies tucked in a corner counting my days. the first time i put my hands on a computer was an IBM and programing in basic.
54 • Package managers... (by kaczor on 2017-04-24 15:12:22 GMT from Germany)
There seem to be 2 OSs that don't have package managers and both are not in the Linux world. Whoever makes an app for those OSs make them with all the dependencies inside them, that is, everything is in the app-folder and there is a link to the executable file. These apps are self contained. If something in the app goes wrong, the OS won't suffer. In our Linux World, we don't really have such a distro with such self-contained apps.
What all Linux package managers do is pull in the tar file, untar it and put the files in different folders (/etc, /usr/share, /usr/lib, etc) as root. And, if something goes wrong with the app, it might delete some files (libraries...) and those files maybe used by other apps or even the distro base. Then you'd have a major problem.
So, the need for self-contained apps is critical for Linux distros. AppImage, for example, creates self-contained apps in squashed mode. You don't need a special app installed (snapd or flatpak) in your computer to create them or run them. Interestingly, you don't have to have a extension, such as .snap or .flatpak or even .AppImage.
55 • @53 VirtualBox (by far2fish on 2017-04-24 15:24:12 GMT from Denmark)
"nope its not virtual guest additions or Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack
thats not the issue. as they are both installed since I first installed virtualbox 9 months ago."
Please note that virtualbox guest additions are NOT installed on your physical OS. It has to be installed on your virtual OS. So it you got 10 virtual machines, you will need to install guest additions 10 times. One on each.
56 • Reply to #51 and #52 (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 15:25:53 GMT from United States)
I have never said I got a mac for free.
All I said was I played with MAC and it was a lot simpler than what i'm going through now with linux.
Yes I do know linux is free.
Yes I do know that Mac is proprietary software that only works on certain hardware.
I was just making a point that my experience using a MAC was much easier than linux
as a new user on both platforms.
Yes I do know macs are extremely expensive,
and yes my friend lent me his mac pro laptop and MAC Pro desktop.
I work for a living, so its not like im some young kid living in moms house.
so if it did came down to it, once I cleared my month mortgage payment and car insurance. I can walk into a store and get a MAC.
I just decide not to because I wanted to try out Linux as a user who has been using Windows since 3.1.1.
EXACTLY - Exactly..... Thats exactly what I am doing taking my time hehehe
though I do take everyone's advice.
I will have no choice but to do lots of linux distro hoping to find what is comfortable for ME.
You are exactly correct.
There is also lots of information ive taken down from people who have responded,
to learn from it.. :D thanks buddy :D
57 • Opinion poll (by Jeffrey on 2017-04-24 15:29:13 GMT from United States)
- Other: I don't use niversal package formats, and I don't yet know if I'll want to. :P
58 • Reply to #55 (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 15:31:38 GMT from United States)
yes I do know that :D - very good info though and thank you for pointing that out :D
Thats exactly what I did. I installed guest addition and extension packs to each.
59 • @8 "Solus distro hopefully might die soon" (by Ikey Doherty on 2017-04-24 15:55:43 GMT from Europe)
Yeah no chance of that lad, now if you could wind your neck in and stop your campaign across comment sections (youtube, distrowatch, etc) for the last 24 hours that'd be great. People like you are of no help to Linux or progress in general.
60 • @ 59 Solus (by kaczor on 2017-04-24 16:05:17 GMT from Germany)
Greg Zeng is an old lad, so he has lot of time to kill. He goes around attacking everyone and everything.
Btw, what do you think of Ubuntu Budgie, Ikey? Would you support it or let it go its way?
61 • @60: Ubuntu Budgie (by Ikey Doherty on 2017-04-24 16:14:26 GMT from Europe)
Honestly I'm happy for them. They have their own unique take of Budgie and people seem to enjoy it, so I can't ask for more than that, really. I don't provide any direct involvement or engagement with the community, it's not my place to do so. However I respond to bugs upstream as Budgie is a distro agnostic project (has it's own website and github org nowadays). I helped get some fixes in for this release which allow Budgie to work back as far as 3.18 so it can be backported to LTS releases.
62 • Rant (by Atrail on 2017-04-24 16:16:06 GMT from United States)
I have followed Linux from 1998 to present,Have watched it grow from an almost useless Os into something remarkable that many of men an women have spent countless thankless hours in their spare time while working real jobs that pay to feed their families to create! If more would choose to help instead of ranting they would be all the better. I distro hop but have found a mainstay that I use everyday. I choose to! not because I have to nor do I think every distro should have to cater to mine or anyone esle opinion as to what there OS should be. Don't like it move on,don't worked or can't fix it move on, It's not like you'll get thur all 800 or distro's anyway.There are plenty that all ready do more an have more than you'll ever need. Just because your pissed at corp OS you shouldn't come here bitching, make a better OS an then will all have a talk again!
63 • @ Jessie (by kaczor on 2017-04-24 16:19:07 GMT from Germany)
Most of us say "As the root user I ran" as Jessie wrote explaining Nix packaging.
The Linux distro you install is done as root. You cannot install it as "user." The root is the owner of your installed distro and also all apps you install. Giving oneself a "username" the only thing you can do an duse that username to log in and use the distro (OS). When you want to install an app or change something seriously, you have to become the root. In a way, we users simply cheat ourselves saying that we are not the root.
Anyway, if you use a self-contained app, which really lives in your home folder or any folder inside your home, the root cannot do anything to them. You are the owner of the app, not the root.
64 • Re: to #31 and the "Noobs" out there (by d'Gonzo on 2017-04-24 16:23:34 GMT from United States)
@31: "Incidentally, I have LMDE running in a VM right now. Resolution is 1920x1080"
Your reply @31 is how we treat "Noobs" - he is asking for help out of frustration and instead to explained to him how you manage to run the "1920x1080" you just rub his noose ...
I've been reading Distrowtch.com and distro-hopping since dawn of this century, and yet to find the "perfect" distro that appeals to me with a balance between the bloat, functionality, hardware support and easy of use for newcomers and switchers.
I'm not un experienced Linux user, but I know how to "Google it"
I've been and still am going trough the same "Noobs" issues and frustrations. I've been quietly reading Distrowatch forums for years and never had commented, but your post was the tipping point for me.
And finally, I would like to give credit to Distrowatch.com for the INCREDIBLE work they do to inform us about Linux - THANK You!
65 • What matters most (to me) coming from Windows... (by OS2_user on 2017-04-24 16:59:37 GMT from United States)
1) NOT spending hundreds of hours trying to ferret out basic information. -- Actually, it's finding whether the info can be found. -- That's not useful employment of anyone's time. ALWAYS put root password on screen where can't be missed. Also include an FAQ. Linux must lose more potential users over simple hiding of literally ten characters than any other cause. Quit keeping secrets!
2) NO PASSWORD. Enforcing use only after click Next in Install instead of warning up front just riles. Nearly everyone uses Windows without, and it's just too much trouble for a personal computer on which I have physical security. -- Never mind when on or installing from the net, as any PW system is just an extra step, not actual protection. -- YES, I know about protections to the system at user level: point is that if the system is protected, then I TOO am excluded from root level! Linux at home is NOT like a 1970s time-sharing system. Abandon that view. The back and forth of demanding password when trying out new software is intolerable. Just let me RISK IT, okay? Perhaps I'm using a practically invulnerable virtual machine. Most can cost me these days is to repeat half hour install, and often flaws cause that!
3) Root ALL the time. Actually same objection. Just allow me to totally do as I wish, or you're worse than Windows.
4) Wacky repositories that almost never work and give zero clues about anything. For typical enough instance, I got a REXX package and it appeared to install, but I couldn't find it and one needs the executable path, besides to "learn the Unix way" like magic #s.
5) I don't want and in practice have never needed a swap partition nor file. It's sheer waste of space. Give up that cherished notion too.
This starts criticizing the religion, such as your mania for still handling an actual Teletype with "vi" instead of providing a usable editor in case I screw up etc/fstab with a mistaken click, and I've done (and barely got fixed with vi). So I stop here.
-- No, I'll add one more thing: that Linux NEEDS a complaint forum because they don't want to hear 'em at the distros, and I think that Distrowatch should PROMOTE such. Maybe separate.
66 • Rants and elitists (by lupus on 2017-04-24 17:15:29 GMT from Germany)
For your search for the 'right' Distro I have the ultimate advice
I was once like you are now
And I know that it's not easy
To be calm when you've found
Something going on
But take your time, think a lot
think of everything you've got
For you will still be here tomorrow
But your dreams may not
And then I'm outraged how the stupid stubborn right wing conservatives managed to turn the word 'elitist' into something bad.
There is a saying that if your are pointing fingers (i.e. Index finger) there are always 3 fingers pointing back in your own direction (your own Middle finger , Ring finger ,pinkie)
So be prepared everybody that if you use elitist in a derogative manner you might be considered stupid, illiterate, right wing, conservative.
I believe our common goal when turning to linux was to reach some kind of excellence over the market dominating forces of evil by learning how to do things the right way. In the world of Free and open Source that means getting off your arse just to shout and rant in anyone's face: "WTF this isn't working. I've had enough...blah" Doesn't accomplish a thing.
In that way all we Linux user are supposed to be elitists because we do care and read and help fellow soon to be elitists to find their way around the quirks of FOSS.
67 • Treatment of noobs (by sydneyj on 2017-04-24 17:45:01 GMT from United States)
@64 I did, indeed, tell @7 that I have LMDE in a VM, and it is running at 1920x1080. This is after his post telling us how "pissed off" he is, addressing us as "you people", and saying Mint devs "need to work on their distro". Coming from someone who knows nothing about Linux (he wants a "store"), that is insulting. If I want to respond in a like manner (I thought I was restrained), I will do so. I don't rub anybody's "noose", but I will respond as I please whether you like it or not.
68 • No password (by Dave Postles on 2017-04-24 19:30:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Running a system without passwords puts everyone else at risk because their machine can be controlled as a bot. We have enough problems with IoT bots because extra bits of kit (like webcams) don't have passwords and can be hacked. In my (now) limited experience of Windows (I set up 7 for my wife), Windows requests a password for users now.
69 • 7 • Everything Of Linux &15 • Give A n00b Some Credit (by neo on 2017-04-24 20:15:20 GMT from Canada)
Guys, does Windows has a "store"? You can find everything inside? Can you try it before to install on real hardware?
I think your way is Apple way. Everything inside and you don't need to read. Just pay... Pay for everything :-)
70 • @65 what matters (by far2fish on 2017-04-24 20:34:06 GMT from Denmark)
1. That basic info is hidden is just FUD. About having the root password in plain sight: You installed it. You decided the root password. Where you keep it "safe" is up to you.
2. It is your install. You have various options to omit supplying a password when installing software.
3. If you want to use root all the time, who is stopping you? It is your install.
4. FUD or corner case scenario.
5. Completely optional to use swap on most distros.
71 • storepository fonts themes etc blah blah (by david esktorp on 2017-04-24 20:36:59 GMT from United States)
Funny how they want fonts and themes all hyper-centralized but then they still have to download janky .exe files from all over creation and that doesn't bother them.
Talk about double standards.
72 • Pictures speaks a thousand words (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 20:40:20 GMT from United States)
Hey #64 and Pssst, Karibou, Denethor & a few others for helping
this is what I was complaining about and so frustrated after trying to get this to work for days on end. But hey other people say im not allowed to be frustrated with LMDE2 people.
and everyone else. this is proof of me having massive problems with LMDE2
that a few here seems to have working. and you say I have no right to be pissed.
going through this for days on on end on my own googling and reading and googling and reading
trying to solve this problem and even with a person who was with me that have 5 years experience wondering why this is happening, and im the crazy one??
Linux Mint Ubuntu Edition installs flawlessly as you can see in the very last picture.
But installing LMDE2 is the first 4 pictures including the one with the messed up text
in the sort of installed OS what ever it did.
I can install any other distro, and this one along with 4 other different kinds of distro gives me the same problem.
When I resize the window in the hypervisor, automatically the windows resizes
on any other distro EXCEPT LMDE2 which stays stuck at 1024x764 and grays out everything else.
Even after installing all additional add-ons for the hypervisor within the VM OS.
Virtual Guest Additions and Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack
So I said Oookkkkkk. - Lets try installing it directly on hardware on the desktop and 2 laptops.
Not to mention also counting 2 of my friends computer which is a laptop and a desktop of hers.
still nothing. thats 5 computers doing the same exact thing.
Picture speaks a thousand words.....
This is what new users are suppose to go through ?
And im not allowed to be frustrated towards LMDE2?
73 • @72 Pictures speaks a thousand words (by mandog on 2017-04-24 21:14:11 GMT from Peru)
I really don't understand your problem LMDE does not install to your satisfaction so try others there are plenty to choose from you like mint so use mint LDME is just a hobby project for intermediate users to play with.
Pclinux is great if you like it its not for me either.
Manjaro has the most friendly forum in Linux give it a try XFCE4, KDE, Gnome, are the supported editions, but cinnamon Deepin and many more are supported community editions and the nice thing with Manjaro Forums, is there is no such thing as a stupid or newbie question.
We were all new users once some choose to forget that and rant and rave about new users no need for that attitude.
But saying that a new user that rants and raves usually end up the same, just saying that's all.
Remember this is Linux nobody gets paid for their hard work and nobody gets thanked for their hard work.
74 • Rants (by rich52 on 2017-04-24 21:26:06 GMT from United States)
Jeeeez. . . I was falling a sleep with all of this commentary. . . . chill out. . . .I've been using Linux since
1997. . . I've done a ton of distro hopping. (I started with Suse 6.2) if I remember right. If you've got issues with your OS of choice . . . shop around. (Hardware is continually evolving and software needs to fit the hardware. . . biggest problems have been with proprietary video drivers. . . . Not all distro's give you the same outcomes and results. . . Software is reason everything falls apart or doesn't work. Unless you are an accomplished developer or software programmer. . . go with the flow. Eventually things get fixed . . . . in the repositories by programmers who know their stuff. It ceases to amaze me how files are linked and when something needs to be tweaked it affects other files that need to be tweaked. . . . .Linux isn't half bad when you consider the Alternative. . .(Windows. . . . ). Just saying. . . sometimes it best to give it a rest when you can and start over in another direction with another OS that may serve you purposes better. . . .nothing is perfect out of the box. . .
Peace. . . .
75 • Frustrations (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2017-04-24 21:40:18 GMT from United States)
Oh, you're allowed to have feelings of frustration - please make sure you aim your ire at the appropriate target(s) before venting: start with the hardware vendors who design pranks and quirks into their products, instead of consistency and standards. Then work your way toward licensing extremists who prevent market thriving, and marketers lying to sell. By the time you get past those major contributors, you'll be conserving what's left of your energy, and thus (hopefully) be perceived as less offensive by the time you drill down to every balkanizing little wannabe group (or solo 'benevolent dictator').
But there is hope; it's not all bad news. Manage your expectations wisely, and you'll likely find gems as you mine through the heaps. One thing to remember: Version(/vintage) Rules; Never Trust an Update.
Cheers, and Good Hunting!
76 • Response to #73 (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 21:47:41 GMT from United States)
yaa im installing Manjaro XFCE and giving it another try, i see your point.
But the way I think about it is, if I treat it like a project and brush off my problem under
the rug like everyone else then im no better than the people who yell out at linux users and say "Ahh those guys are hobbyist tinkerers geeks"
Knowing that this is an operating system.
Also I have donated almost $100 two weeks ago , so I am helping some.
Im not warren buffet or anything but i do help.
I want people in the LMDE2 camp to fix it because by the looks of it, its a major problem. I tweeted them, emailed them and was ignored. not one word from MINT team, or Debian or anyone else over there. so kinda feel like its being brushed away.
And yes I had my best friend type a nice letter about it to them.
going on 9 days and not a word from anyone.
Thats why I came here frustrated to high hell.
I believe that once people start treating Linux more serious and stop treating it like
a hobby tinkering thingy and more like an OS, then AAA gaming & software companies will start to take Linux more serious as and show more respect by actually moving their asses and make
AAA games and software like they do for Windows and MAC.
The only reason why MAC a UNIX base OS was taken seriously and people jumped on
it is because Apple made sure that people respected the OS.
Even MAC has far superior software when it comes to packaging and distribution
along with MAJOR companies standing behind MAC when it comes to software development for the MAC
an OS is not some tonka toy "Geek tinkerer hobbyist thingy".
Its an OS and we need to help get the platform respect, otherwise whats the sense
if its just a hobbyist thing in the garage.
I was voice chatting in a very large gaming channel last month,
and one thing that kept getting repeated within the channel.
"How can anyone take Linux serious if everyone is saying its a
hobbyist tinkering thing for geeks.?
Other comments was "When linux community takes themselves more seriously,
maybe software companies and game devs will take them more seriously".
I myself would like Linux to be huge of an OS as Windows and MAC and be respected for it. But if we keep thinking its a hobbyist OS, we will remain so for decades to come.
Thats why MAC is where its at now, it was treated like an OS and business
and they got the respect and user base in return even though its a expensive close system, but non the less they got respect from software companies and AAA gaming devs.
Yet linux has to fight tooth and nail to get a good AAA game in the OS.
see what I am trying to convey ??
Im not so great at explaining things over text. sorry.
My experience with Linus pushed me even more to head over to Linux.
So im giving it a huge try. - One way or another im leaving windows.
im hoping Linux takes its place, if not then I will spend 4 grand and just get a MAC.
See where this is going ?
77 • response to #74 and #75 (by Twsted on 2017-04-24 21:53:33 GMT from United States)
#74 and #75
hahaha, very very true. :D
Sometimes I take things I to seriously & emotionally because i want it to work
and hope its improves and sometimes it takes the best in me.
I get hyped for years of people telling me telling me that and when I arrive
its a bit of a let down, so frustrations kicks in.
Thanks Rich and Kragle :D
78 • linux distros are not... (by whinger on 2017-04-24 21:53:53 GMT from Australia)
Linux Distros are not flowers in a meadow, all the different types with their own seductions and rewards, hoping to be visited by a "windows refu'bee", hoping to be fertilized into significance.
I am not saying that's exactly what is happening here, in this discussion, just that it's a common misbelief that all these linux distros are all laying out their best china, hoping to swoon a proprietary operating system user into adopting their wares..
No, they are beacons of effort, acts of dedication, specialisation. hard work and comittment.
The price of use is paid by your involvment in learning a bit about your computer, maybe a command line entry or two, at least a bit of duckduckgo'ing for an answer.
Unfortunately I am not a Linux Guru, no sir, just a humble user, respectful, willing to learn and usually in awe of what fun can be had, for free
79 • Ubuntu Unity & GNOME 3 (by Simon Wainscott-Plaistowe on 2017-04-24 22:42:41 GMT from New Zealand)
I never could see what's so great about either Unity or GNOME 3, although if I had to choose then I'd prefer Unity for aesthetics and intuitive ease of use. I'm still wondering what's behind the decision to abandon so many years of Unity development. Perhaps in time the design principles of Unity will be integrated into GNOME and a better system will emerge. Anyway, for now Linux Mint serves my purposes better, with Cinnamon on my newest laptop and MATE on my older machines. IMHO one of the great things about Linux is that it gives us the ability to choose and customise our operating environment.
80 • 76 • Response (by mandog on 2017-04-25 00:12:09 GMT from Peru)
Actually users don't want Linux to be like MAC/Windows or successful this is Linux.
Have you tried openSuse very user friendly.
81 • It's not the Gates nor Ballmer era anymore! (by RJA on 2017-04-25 01:18:52 GMT from United States)
@8 Unlike those times, Microsoft has been clearly making major mistakes and thus Linux can slip right by at any time! And unlike the Gates era and the Ballmer era, Android is a major competitor!
82 • Re: Package Manager (by Ev on 2017-04-25 02:24:57 GMT from United States)
I use Smart-PM for my CLI and GUI package manager. I use PCLINUXOS and while Apt is fine for a lot of people, I like the straightforward CLI commands for Smart much more. Not many people seem to be aware of this universal package manager and I'm not sure why. This very poll is an example as I would have included it in as an option in the "I use a universal format (AppImage/Flatpak/Nix/Snap/Smart-PM*)" option inside the "Modern Package Managers and Formats Poll"
* Not an exact quote since I wrote Smart-PM in myself
Here's some comparisons:
sudo apt-get update | smart update
sudo apt-get install | smart install
sudo apt-cache search | smart search
More information about Smart-PM can be found on it's homepage here:
Additional Info can be found on it's GitHub page here:
I hope this comment will give Smart-PM some other users who also love this simple, straightforward Package Manager.
83 • The stereotypical documentation pages are a major problem (by RJA on 2017-04-25 02:45:28 GMT from United States)
@15 Too often, I run into documentation pages that are obscenely out of date!
That will make some OS newbies think that Linux is trash!
A hypothetical example:
Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, while the man page contains only stuff for 8.04 LTS, all the way back from 2008! Thus, folks turn away...
84 • Distro testing (by A Reyes on 2017-04-25 03:08:15 GMT from United States)
I view the Linux experience in a different way, I try different desktops instead of a particular distro. I have settled on Mate as the best desktop for me. In a years time I will review LXqt, KDE Plasma is beautiful, just too slow loading in my equipment, which is I5 with 4gigs!
With the Mate desktop I have tried the following: Mint, Sparky, PCLinusOs, Ubuntu, Manjaro, Antergos and a couple of others. Since I have extra hard drives I do a full drive installations of the distros, real world experience. I will try Fedora soon since I have not tried it for a while.
This is my opinion, Mint and PCLinuxOs are the easiest to install, perhaps PCLinux a little easier, both recognize my hardware without any problems, both Manjaro and Angergos take a little work. Sparky and Antergos repos do not have all software need.
I know how Mate is supposed to work, I just want to know if the distro works with my hardware and has the software that I need.
85 • @7...Three months, eh... (by Tom Joad on 2017-04-25 03:18:24 GMT from Netherlands)
I hope this doesn't chafe...
After having used Linux for three months, Ubuntu in my case, I kind of doubt I would be wailing and gnashing my teeth here. I really believe I would have kept my mouth zippered and gone on to learn about the OS in my own way in my own time. Me thinks a lot of folks here have done just that...they learned by doing and asking for help when needed.
I really think if you quietly persevere you will 'get it.' Everything will begin to fall in place as it did for me. The building blocks would begin to stack up and you will be 'on your way' so to speak. Everybody's 'road' to here is different.
However, I have to tip my hat to you. You sure got folks going. Most weeks the comment section doesn't have nearly as comments as it does now and it is just Monday! Good job, ol' boy!
By the way, I don't and never have bought Linux from anyone except Parted Magic which you will get to in due time. Mostly I download what I need though early on I was given CD's of Red Hat. (Here a Linux-ville we can do that and we even encourage doing just that!)
Lastly, I would suggest being calm, learning, practicing, using, asking questions and enjoying what we all have.
Actually, it is pretty OK here...rather than...well, never mind.
86 • twisted - various (by x on 2017-04-25 03:29:39 GMT from United States)
I am not sure what your motive is here. You are not going to find the perfect Linux Distribution by hopping around from one distribution to another. Pick one,no matter how imperfect, make sure your hardware is compatible. Then learn how to use it, several recommendations have been offered. It will take time, be somewhat patient. After you learn how to use it as well as customize it, then start looking for the unobtainable ' Perfect Distribution'. You will be in a better position to find something close to what you are looking for.
Most distributions have resources to help and people that are able to provide advice. As a rule the demanding and insulting are generally ignored or banned. Please be polite.
Documentation is sparse or non-existent for many distributions. A few have reasonably good documentation. One of the problems is there is not as much joy writing user documentation as there is writing code.
However, I sense an underlying hostility on your part and believe that no matter how much advice and assistance you receive, you will never be happy. The BSD's and Linux distributions are not and never were intended to be MS replacements. That expectation is is unreasonable.
87 • One more thing (by FOSSilizing Dinosaur on 2017-04-25 04:26:12 GMT from United States)
(for Twsted et al) Add to list of adages:
Avoid base distros; derivative/spin/remix one level up are kinder/gentler to newbies.
Remember also: most forums/IRC-channels/etc have nasty lurkers (Do Not Feed The Trolls!), some of which are 'moderators' (encouraged and officially authorized).
88 • Distro Testing and Learning. (by Howard Schabow on 2017-04-25 08:07:41 GMT from United States)
Hello everyone, this is my first post here.
I believe to be able to use any operating system well, you will need to learn how to use it. Just like anything else in life, we are not born knowing how to walk, or ride a bicycle, or how to drive a car, or how to do math, or reading and writing, etc. Those are all things we needed to learn since we were born.
It's the same with any computer program, including the Operating System. Sure, some operating systems (or Linux distros) can be a little easier for a newcomer to use, compared to others. It's probably easier for the average person new to Linux, to install Ubuntu compared to installing Slackware. But even installing Ubuntu (or Linux Mint, etc) could seem confusing to someone that has never done it before.
And certainly if someone is familiar with using Microsoft Windows (or Apple McIntosh ) all your life, using sometime different (such as Linux) might seem confusing and overwhelming to the newcomer. But that is because, that person has already learned how to use a computer with Windows or Mac.
People are not born knowing how to use a computer, it's a learned skill. I believe it helps very much, when a person is willing to learn something different, something new. Sometimes we are forced into that, because we have changed our careers, or moved to a foreign country with a different culture, etc. But sometimes we choose to make changes to being improvements into our lives.
Personally I find Linux a much better choice for my computing needs, compared to Windows or Macintosh. But that is my personal choice and opinion, it's what works best for me.
I will also mention I have been using computers since the 1980's, and received my first computer in around 1991 or 1992, it was a vintage Tandy 1000 SX with the Intel 8088 CPU, a huge 1 MB of RAM, 2 floppy drives and MS-DOS 3.2, and no hard drive or optical drive. And I started using Windows 3.11 sometime later in the early 1990's on an Intel 386, and eventually started using Linux around 1998, about 20 years ago. Nowadays I multi boot with Slackware, PCLinuxOS, Linux Lite, Debian, Kubuntu and FreeDOS.
I happen to enjoy learning about Linux, so that makes it easier for me. But I think anyone should be willing to learn, at least the basics. Otherwise you will be stuck, not understanding anything. After all, I have never seen a baby that is not interested in learning how to walk and climb, and speak, and play with things. They have a natural curiosity and desire to learn and explore the world. Otherwise they would never grow up, or learn much of anything.
I'm not saying everyone should become computer experts, or experts at Linux. Of course not. We are all free to learn how much, and what we desire. But I hope, if you are willing to at least try out Linux, then I hope you give it a fair chance. I hope you don't call it junk after only a couple of weeks. Give it some time, and be willing to learn a few new things. Because after all, you were not born knowing Windows, or Macintosh, or your iPhone or Android smartphone, etc.
89 • @Twstd: (by dragonmouth on 2017-04-25 13:42:50 GMT from United States)
"I want people in the LMDE2 camp to fix it because by the looks of it, its a major problem"
Maybe yes, maybe no. Considering that there are thousands, if not more, people who use LMDE2 successfully and only few, yourself include, who have problems with it, chances are very good that the problem exists on your end, not with LMDE2. I am not saying that just to be nasty to you, I'm speaking from experience. There are certain Linux distros that I CANNOT install on my PCs. I don't agonize, rant or stamp my feet about it. I accept it and move on to other distros. Distrowatch database has 288 active distros. Even after disregarding all the Ubuntu-based ones, there still are enough distros to keep me busy for the rest of my life.
For you and all those out there that bemoan the fact that Linux is so different from Windows, I would suggest you read the following article:
I would sa 'Enjoy' but I know the dies-in-the-wool Window fans will not.
90 • avoiding "base distros" (by Jordan on 2017-04-25 14:40:36 GMT from United States)
Baloney. Never avoid anything like an Arch or Gentoo or Debian. Those are what taught me linux!
91 • Package manager (by Francesco Turco on 2017-04-25 17:09:15 GMT from Italy)
Since I use Gentoo Linux I will keep the Portage package manager.
92 • Lots of Thinking To Do Ahead Of Me. :/ (by Twsted on 2017-04-25 17:32:44 GMT from United States)
#80 •• Response (by mandog on 2017-04-25 00:12:09 GMT from Peru)
[Actually users don't want Linux to be like MAC/Windows or successful this is Linux.]
You are not the only person to tell me that mandog, countless other people in other
places tell me the same thing over and over, which makes me wonder.
Why am I doing this in the first place if linux users are telling me this.
Maybe I should take the advice of many who have posted that said (And I quote)
"Linux is a hobby and not an OS like Windows or MAC." "Linux is for tinkerers geeks"
Maybe I should just walk into Apple and purchase a MAC, an OS thats stable
without many flaws and used by MILLIONS and just use Linux as by people
describe, a tinker hobby application thingy. MAC has support by many major software companies
including AAA games companies, much more than Linux.
Since many people keep telling me over and over that Linux is just a tinker hobby application os and that linux users dont want Linux to be as successful as Mac or Win.
Its really sad that linux users think this way, one would think that linux users
want linux to be much bigger than what it currently is, but looks like they dont.
though yes linux is open source, linux is free and all, but if people dont want linux
to be as successful as mac and win, then whats the sense ? why do this, why be an os?
anyways, I have a lot of thinking to do. though I do like that MAC has many softwares
im really used to like Adobe products, Ableton live, Pro Tools, Rainmeter which I love so much, and countless other applications, not to mention the massive support they get from many software companies including graphics drivers and many other drivers.
so I sit here and read from actual linux users telling me that linux is just a tinker and hobby thing and is not taken serious as a serious os and the users dont want linux to be as noticeable or big as mac or windows as an os.
I have some debating and thinking to do on the steps i need to take to
have a stable os that i can use on a daily bases as my daily driver that has full support
from other companies.
And its true what many people say, not just here but other places as well, that
documentation is sparse or non-existent for many distributions.
linux os always have to fight to get proper drivers support from companies from
either hardware or software and lack of support for many others, not to mention
To find information is like trying to find a needle in a haystack and on top of that,
many so called informative pages are outdated, not by weeks or months but by years.
I kept finding information about different linux os's that are from 2008 and some even earlier and a few from 2011 or so. New users looking at this will make them wonder.
maybe im mistaken into thinking im taking linux too seriously as an official os.
For now ill just treat linux as a hobby tinker projects thingy, while I debate to myself.
maybe im taking linux too seriously and having too much high hopes for it.
Ill minus well follow everyone else and just let it be what it is, a hobby tinker geek thing in my spare time.
As my friend says, maybe im beating a tree thats already dead....
anyways, lots of thinking ahead of me.
I really have a lot of thinking to do......
93 • @92 Linux vs macOS, Twsted (by far2fish on 2017-04-25 18:16:22 GMT from Denmark)
Like many have said before in this thread. You need compatible hardware to run Linux.
If you buy a Mac, you get an OS that is built specifically for the hardware.
So, if you want success with Linux you will need compatible hardware. There are a few sites where you can find info about compatible hardware. Ubunty hardware certification is one of them.
Personally I prefer to use the Lenovo Thinkpad series as Lenovo makes an effort to make their business laptops Linux ready. Right now I have Fedora 25 on running on a brand new T470. My previous laptop was also a Thinkpad, on which I have used Fedora, Antergos, Manjaro and Ubuntu with success. On that laptop I never got wifi to work with Linux Mint though, which was really strange since it is based on Ubuntu, and the wifi chip vendor was intel.
The Dell XPS developer edition is also used by many Linux users.
Have a look at hp and asus as well for which models they have that works with Linux.
Like any purchase, do the necessary research before you decide.
94 • @92 (by Denethor on 2017-04-25 18:49:47 GMT from Serbia)
I would suggest to take the dual booting approach until you get familiar with linux. I did that for years and I still need Windows for work (not any serious CAD program in linux, not even close). In addition, if your hardware is relatively new, you need a newer kernel and therefore you find yourself a distro with newer kernel. My advise is to avoid rolling distros for now and stick to an LTS version or debian stable (with a backported kernel or wait a few months the 9 realease). Even better, have several partitions with different distros as one with a stable/LTS, one rolling like manjaro and one or two for trying new ones. When you are confortable enough, give arch a try for the educational expirience. Finally, Linux is not a hobby OS although you can use it as one. Actually, it is the most reliable OS for any serious systems like CERN, Supercomputers, Stock markets, space stations etch. It is just that the desktop has not yet seen the same focus by the developers and the luck of some specific software due to its open source character. It is a great OS and you will never regret getting involved with it.
95 • It is what you make it Twsted. (by Garon on 2017-04-25 18:55:07 GMT from United States)
As far as linux goes it is what you want to make it. Most servers run on linux, most embedded systems run on linux, most super computers in the world run on linux. The downfall of a lot of system admin. is when they don't take the power of linux serious. Really if you think about it anyone who wants to have a successful career in the IoT craze that going on now will need to know how to code with linux more so than Windows or whatever Apple has going on now, which is a modified form of BSD. That's what it pretty much relates to. Whoever told you that linux was a dead tree and just for someone who wants to tinker around are really out of touch with reality. It may not ever be number one on the desk top but it doesn't have to be. It is number one on the things that really matter.
96 • Hobby OS, I don't think so (by Doug on 2017-04-25 19:39:56 GMT from United States)
For me and many others, Linux is our workhorse OS.
And for many Windows is what they need for playing games.
And Windows is so susceptible to viruses, whereas Linux is much better at being secured.
I know Windows can be secured, but it is a pain. And some of the Antivirus programs are almost as bad as the viruses themselves.
And for those who say that Windows just works, you should check out some of the Windows forums, they are full of people who can't get there computers to work.
And for some, Linux lets you look under the hood and see what's going on. And you get to tinker with it.
Think of those people who like to work with there cars, and make them run better. They still drive those cars that they work with.
97 • @ 96 (by kaczor on 2017-04-25 20:05:59 GMT from Germany)
> And Windows is so susceptible to viruses, whereas Linux is much better at being secured. I know Windows can be secured, but it is a pain.<
Tells me that you don't know Windows, at least the Ten version. That Windows is very well secured. Btw, the apps in Windows are self-contained, and cannot really attack the OS.
>And for those who say that Windows just works, you should check out some of the Windows forums, they are full of people who can't get there computers to work.<
Forums everywhere are full of people, who cannot get something to work, and that is because they are either dumb, or lazy to do some work, or even search.
Btw, how about talking about Linux, rather than attacking other OSs? Every OS has its pluses and minuses
98 • @97 (by Denethor on 2017-04-25 21:42:33 GMT from Serbia)
Yes, I agree, let us talk about linux. Linux dos NOT phone home! How can people stil use windows by choice after the Snowden revelations, is really beyond me...
99 • @92 re Linux popularity (by Simon on 2017-04-25 21:56:51 GMT from New Zealand)
Well, both your questions and your comments suggest that you're confusing popularity with quality. Popularity and quality are very different things: McDonald's makes its billions by selling sugar and fat, not healthy food. MacOS and Windows are popular for similar reasons: they are "fast food" operating systems that have been developed to appeal to the tastes of consumers, with no respect for good software principles (like software freedom, for starters...but many others too, like simplicity and stability, all of which go out the window when you're trying to wow customers with the latest sparkly nonsense). If you want a Mac (whether the burger or the computer), just buy a Mac and be happy with it.
GNU/Linux desktops should always be less popular than commercial desktops, for roughly the same reasons that home-grown and home-prepared salads are less popular than fast food: in fact, the more popular GNU/Linux desktops become, the worse they become (in terms of UNIX principles and so on...systemd is a good recent example). So if you ever see a triumph of Linux over MacOS/Windows on the desktop, it won't be a triumph of free software or even of geeks: it will be a triumph of commercial, satisfy-the-masses principles over the GNU/Linux desktop...and the geeks will all have moved to OpenBSD or some other project that cares more about software quality than popularity with users.
Of course, "popularity" depends on the population you're discussing. Linux is already by far the most popular OS on supercomputers (over 99% of the world's top 500 supercomputers run on Linux) and among computer scientists and so on. It's only unpopular among people who want their computers to "just work" without their having to "tinker" as you put it. If you want to go from A to B, you can choose whether to drive a private car or to take a bus. It's not a "problem" that the private car doesn't let you pay a fare and then sit back and close your eyes and wait until you arrive at your destination. If you don't like it, take the bus...but don't confuse cars with buses and imagine that there's something wrong with them if they don't work the same way.
Linux is not MacOS/Windows, and the hordes of ex-Windows users (and wealthy sponsors like Shuttleworth) who imagine it ought to be are just lifelong bus passengers who think it would be cool if performance cars were more like buses. "Granny should be able to hop straight into this performance car and have it take her to the shops without effort...so first the manual gear shift has to go...", etc., etc. Seriously, if you don't want to tinker, you're absolutely right: you "should just walk into Apple and purchase a Mac". You're going to be endlessly and pointlessly frustrated if you admire MacOS and want your computer to work like that, and yet for some reason use GNU/Linux instead.
100 • Linux, not hobby OS (by Doug on 2017-04-25 21:58:19 GMT from United States)
Actually, I was just showing the superiority of Linux over that other OS.
Linux distros have package managers.
Multi- user setup by default.
And Linux really gives me the opportunity to learn about the OS and the computer.
101 • @100 and others (by kaczor on 2017-04-25 22:22:25 GMT from Germany)
Linux distros are not superior to other OSs, just different. Every OS has pluses and minuses. An operating system is needed to use apps, we need to work, play and create. Some apps work with Linux, some work with other OSs.
In this issue of Distrowatch, we are supposed to discuss/talk about package managers or lack of them. A linux distro's package manager pulls a package from a repo, unpack it and put relevant files in relevant folders owned by root, not you as the user. Some of these files are common to other apps. So, if one app gets damaged (bugs...) it might make other apps go wrong, and also the whole distro go wrong.
That's why we are been looking at self-contained apps, with their dependencies contained within the app (like in Windows and OS X). We have docker method, and lately flatpaks and snaps. AppImage was there a long time. It is much more interesting than flatpaks or snaps.
Now, have any of you created a flatpak, snap or an AppImage? Or even an Orbital App? I have learned from AppImage and created a few useful self-contained apps. They can be taken from one computer to another through usb stick, or kept in one distro's home folder and used in other distros. So, if you have created a few, let's talk about that. That was the poll this time too.
102 • @92 - Not just a hobby (by historyb on 2017-04-25 23:37:24 GMT from United States)
First I want to apologize that some on here are being rude. I hope that does not prevent you from using Linux in any iteration.
Second I want to assure you that just because some say Linux is a "tinkerers geeks thingy" I can assure you it's not, there are more things out there than distrowatch so don't relay on people here to tell you everything about Linux. I know people that have and do use Linux that are not geeks and I use it full time and want an OS that just works and stays out of the way and I use Linux because it does, I do not have the time to tinker with things that is why I and my family do not use windows. (I use Elementary OS)
Give Linux it's due and don't discount it because of some snot nose geeks
103 • @7 Twisted (by OhioJoe on 2017-04-26 00:28:37 GMT from United States)
Done a little research and recommend You try SolydXEE-solydxee_9_64_201703.iso
The regular SolydX is built for stability, while the Enthusiast's Edition
has the most recent software and kernel. It should work on your laptop.
104 • SolydX (by bigsky on 2017-04-26 01:37:30 GMT from Canada)
@ OhioJoe. He's just playing a game. Ignore would be wise. Good call mate. Its a solid distro. Thanks
105 • Nix (by 2damncommon on 2017-04-26 03:34:45 GMT from United States)
I thought Nix would be really interesting to try in conjunction with LFS. But I did not think I found enough information in the Nix site that would explain building Stage 1 using Nix then using a profile of stage one to build Stage 2 of LFS. So how to do a profile of stable builds, introducing a profile of new builds, reverting to stable if there are problems and progressing to new if it works?
106 • A professional desktop. (by lupus on 2017-04-26 08:13:48 GMT from Germany)
Since at least 7 Years my Wife uses different Distros and Desktop Environments all based on Linux without even noticing and because I stopped giving her Windows support for free. The only thing that has changed is the pure number of her requests for me to fix things. Nowadays once a year some Software goes sideways and maybe takes cups the printing aid with it downhills. That may lead to me rebooting the machine cause I don´ t have the time to inspect what went wrong. We work on Laptops without ECC so maybe cosmic fire let to bitrot how the hell should I know? That is also the time when I notice that the Laptop had an uptime of 327 Days or so (including sleep). This kind of stability was unknown to me in the preLinux Aera (weekly complaints from Wife). So I´m pretty sure we can call most of the Desktop Environments that exist on Linux professional. There maybe a lack of professional Software for non average Computer users, but that is a choice Adobe makes blame them.
Don´t get me wrong Windows10 might be a gamechanger in that stability Department, again how should I know, but the way it was constantly shoved down my throat (yes I still own one damn Microsoft driven tablet pc) and the EULA trying me to surrender all my Data to Microsoft Servers is so evil. There I draw my line in the Sand and put my foot on the ground. Where my freedom begins the freedom of Microsoft or Apple ends. And btw I call this kind of behaviour unprofessional!
107 • Universal Package Managers (by Bellan on 2017-04-26 12:26:08 GMT from United States)
The fact is, if we want professional software companies to produce software for Linux distributions, then you need a universal format for them to use. Steam has been proof that people are willing to make things for Linux operating systems... if it's sold through an already established store. I need things like Clip Studio Paint for work, and Krita is not an acceptable substitute for it at this time. Therefore I can either use Windows, use Windows in a VM in Linux (which would be too costly for my resources), or try the painful experience of trying to get it to work through Wine. Until there is some universal standard and a proper way to sell software on various distros, people will not come. So far we've proved that Linux can be successful in reaching the vast public- if it's spread by Google with their own store installed. We need our own.
108 • @ Jessie - universal format (AppImage/Flatpak/Nix/Snap) (by kaczor on 2017-04-26 12:29:39 GMT from Germany)
As no one here is saying they have created any app using a universal format (AppImage/Flatpak/Nix/Snap), I'd like to ask, if you have created one. Regards!
109 • LMDE (by Tim Dowd on 2017-04-26 12:48:19 GMT from United States)
Apologies if someone has pointed this out, but LMDE 2 "needs work" because it's almost at end of life. Debian is fixing to release their next stable, and then we'll have an LMDE 3 that's binary compatible with it.
Every Debian release cycle I make a decision between LMDE, Ubuntu MATE, Mint, and Debian itself (for each machine and its unique quirks.) LMDE2 was a great choice for me for the past year.
110 • 109 • LMDE - Tim Dowd (by lenn on 2017-04-26 14:50:12 GMT from Canada)
LMDE means Debian + Cinnamon at the time, so why not install pure Debian and add Cinnamon to that? The rest is just eye-candy (well, if you can consider Mint wallpaper as eye-candy). Also, you won't be bogged down with someone's mistakes, would you?
111 • MATE / Beginners Distributions / Themes and Fonts (by Winchester on 2017-04-26 15:53:13 GMT from United States)
It seems as though there is a large group fixated on Mint and Ubuntu. Personally,I don't completely understand the reason for it. Drivers perhaps??
At any rate,for those considering Mint MATE or Ubuntu MATE,I would recommend looking at Ultimate Edition GNU/Linux which uses MATE in its primary releases. They have ISO's with other desktop environments but MATE is their "bread and butter". Very smooth and responsive.
LMDE Mate alternatives worth considering are RoboLinux (Debian Stable Base) and Rebellin' Linux (Debian Testing Base).
For those with a little bit more experience,Korora MATE and Void MATE are solid options.
I have Calculate Linux Desktop MATE installed on one of my partitions. I have to say that,although it is based from Russia and based on Gentoo,it has been surprisingly easy to use and fast. All you have to do is read the "Emerge" manual page. Calculate,along with Ultimate Edition and Korora have been the three best experiences that I have had with the MATE desktop environment.
I might end up installing Gentoo itself or the Exton "ExGent". Gentoo doesn't seem to be as complicated as some make it out to be. There is good documentation in the manual pages.
Speaking of which,this leads me back to the Ubuntu slant on things. Exton has around 10 or 12 distributions of different bases but,the only one listed here is ExTix ..... based on Ubuntu. No listing for "ExGent" , "SlackEX" , the Exton Android releases ,nor the Exton Puppy Linux releases.
Regarding Post # 15, I agree that almost all distributions have a poor default selection of themes,wallpapers,and fonts. There are a couple of exceptions. The aforementioned Ultimate Edition has some good themes. Calculate Linux and Gecko Linux have some good fonts but not many. This is probably because the time and resources are spent on other,more critical matters. Maybe licensing issues in some cases?? Some of the fonts I prefer are Maven Pro , Linux Biolinium , TimeBurner , and Spinnaker Pro. There are a handful of others which I can't recall off of the top of my head.
Last of all,what is the explanation of the reason(s) why Mint and Ubuntu are so beginner friendly?? I can't be the software center,can it?? Reinstalling the operating system every few years doesn't seem too beginner friendly to me. What exactly makes Mint and Ubuntu more suited for beginners than KaOS as an example .... or Mageia XFCE ?? Sticking in the Ubuntu world,why is Mint MATE more beginner friendly than Ultimate Edition with the MATE desktop?? I have yet to read a convincing explanation.
112 • @111 (by alex on 2017-04-26 16:06:39 GMT from Canada)
"I would recommend looking at Ultimate Edition GNU/Linux which uses MATE in its primary releases."
This Ultimate Edition is a complete mix of everything...and pretty ugly.
"I have Calculate Linux Desktop MATE installed on one of my partitions. I have to say that,although it is based from Russia and based on Gentoo,it has been surprisingly easy to use and fast."
Have you got anything against Russia, btw? Calculate is made in St. Petersburg, which is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, and the cultural centre of Russia.
113 • Swapfile + encrypted home in 17.04 slow boot (by vampireJ on 2017-04-26 17:47:52 GMT from United States)
Swapfile + encrypted home in 17.04 makes booting so slow and I am already on ssd.
Anybody noticed this as well?
114 • Response to #107 & #109 (by Twsted on 2017-04-26 18:44:37 GMT from United States)
EXACTLY... thank you... exactly... finally someone realizing this. that's refreshing.
#109 Tim Dowd
Yup...I agree... It does need work.
115 • lmde (by Tim Dowd on 2017-04-26 18:51:08 GMT from United States)
All of the distros I mentioned should in theory be tweakable to work exactly like each other. But of course minor differences in builds, included kernels, default settings, included or excluded firmware, etc, make a distro more or less usable on different hardware and in different conditions. Tracking down the source of firmware problems or permissions problems can be educational, but it can take hours. It's a lot quicker to grab one of the other 5 functionally identical distros and see if they just work out of the box better.
The worst example in my 7 years of Linux was with Suse 10.1 I can't remember whether I had KDE or Gnome installed, but YAST would not share my printer, no matter what I did. I got fed up and did a clean install in case I had broke something, but I picked the other desktop for some reason. The printer shared perfectly.
I know distrohopping because a bug is taking too much time to resolve seems extreme, but I don't have a lot of time these days, and I'm more than happy running a lot of different debian and ubuntu derivatives.
116 • Success! Yes, though PCLinux 2017.03 didn't boot... (by OS2_user on 2017-04-26 21:28:11 GMT from United States)
2017.04 does on same box with same clicks for default on every choice. So turns out wasn't me. All who question my competence or resolve are simply wrong. And I'm plenty tired of the attitude.
Netrunner 17.03 that I mention above spontaneously reverted to 1024x768 so it's gone, and that's why I tried latest PCLinux.
Then I flailed worse than ever just trying to set screen resolution, LOST ALL DISPLAY TWICE (2nd time having only mouse pointer after log-ins!), had to re-install from scratch. It's TWO THOUSAND SEVENTEEN, people. Get the basics working FIRST.
Anyway, IF 2017.04 works with Virtual Box, I'll keep it away from the net and be DONE.
But they've changed it so can no longer just click on root no pw, am forced to give two-character password.
Fact is, I CAN'T have Linux how want, only within orthodoxy. That's same as Windows: once give in and obey their arbitrary WAY, it works fine!
I give up, Linux. Too much time spent just getting a stable Desktop.
>>> I'm thoroughly convinced that Linux (GUIs) are simply becoming unusable. And so are others! Just read above. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?
117 • Kit/OS (by Dave Postles on 2017-04-26 21:39:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
I buy my kit from PCSpecialist in the UK. Never had a serious issue installing Linux or BSD (PC-BSD, Ghost BSD) and I'm a distrohopper.
118 • @115 LMDE etc (by lenn on 2017-04-26 21:44:14 GMT from Canada)
Debian has lot of volunteer devs to create and maintain packages. Ubuntu had been creating and maintaining packages. Cannonical had been backing Ubuntu and had been recruiting people and paying wages for them. How do they make money, while giving away a distros free?
Base of LMDE or Mint is from Debian and Ubuntu. It doesn't make any Debian or Ubuntu base apps.Doesn't spend money or time creating those base packages, and getting releasing Debian or Ubuntu distros, but create a DE or some apps, that has nothing to do with Debian's or Ubuntu's development. It waits until Debian and Ubuntu release a new distro/OS and add its apps and release so-called LMDE and Linux Mint.
See what Ikey Doherty, the creator of Budgie desktop says in post 61 about Ubuntu Budgie. He is happy in a way and even helped out. What if someone takes Ubuntu and add Cinnamon to it and create Ubuntu Cinnamon? Won't it be better than Linux Mint? Most importantly, it'd released the same day together with the release of Ubuntu. Maybe, its time someone like the devs of Ubuntu Mate or Ubuntu Budgie create Ubuntu Cinnamon. It would be quite fresh too.
119 • # 29 (by Pssst on 2017-04-26 22:00:13 GMT from Netherlands)
Thank you for your Input.
I explain if I may reg. PClinOS;
Years ago I got burned very hard by PClinuxOS, took way to long to install, then, the updates were hanging and once they started to download it took like forever for them to finish up. No go for me. I installed it on real PC and this whole Distro started missbeheaving, wrong screen resoluytion, right up the boot, following by screen flackering and ahh, do not even want to think about it again anymore. Not to mention the booting took like over 5 Min. Just forget it I say, and dumped this whole thing. You understand the nature here, please?
If you people release some Distro that is not working and people get burned, then do not wonder why o why, some of us do not like it.
I do not discredit the developers. Great work! Just not for me, this time.
I am not as educated as you are maybe, for using this Distro.
Ever since I have not touched this PClinuxOS and am sure will not touch it
again for long time to come. As I have what works for me and it is Debian based. That is it.
At the same time I am very pleased to read that people like you and others
are using this PClinuxOS to this very day, with no problems. That is just great and that is the unique power of Linux.
Thank you all for your great Input. Thank you Distrowatch and again please forgive my Grammar. Over and out.
120 • Response to #103 OhioJoe (by Twsted on 2017-04-26 23:11:30 GMT from United States)
Looks pretty cool so far, I installed it on VirtualBox to play with it for a while.
I like the logo if it too. I put it in my folder of Liked Linux OS's. , thx :D
121 • # 41 and Twsted (by Pssst on 2017-04-26 23:19:19 GMT from Netherlands)
@ 42 Sofia
@ Twsted, and some thought of mine for who cares or not..
And very nice read from 111 by Winchester
@ 42 Sofia
Very beautiful written , just like little Poem. (Headline)
At the same time 107 Bellan is exactly addressing the problem Twsted is
writing about, not directly but right on.
111 by Winchester is very true fact to read about.
You only 3 Months down and you have tested so many Distros and
write allot about them already. Addressing the main problems.
Respect to you. As Yoda would say" Inteligent you seem to are.Are you
No offence I mean it in serious kind manner.
As I read you are in to audio. Perhaps dedicate one Laptop for
AV LInux. It is the best Linux in my Opinion for Audio production.
After install it is not recom. To Update, because settings would change.
It is more like isolated to use, best with no Internet.
Best audio out of this Linux ever. I used older Version in 32bit.
He has some 64bit version UEFi If I remember, so I do not know about this one.
You will be just very fine by using Mint xfce. Soon you out grow it anyway. Any way. I feel everything you have written about. I am positive,
we all go to the same thing, one person more and the other less.
Linux has used allot of my life time, but somehow I do not regret it at all.
I am sorry for some Family members that are stuck to Win...s for ever due to the lack of ahhh., what ever. In general I am sorry for people that are
glued to Win.
I am most happy however if one person out of 20 asks for help to install any linux. I do it for free.
As I grow older, I care more to go for a walk in Nature and sit less in front of PC Monitor. Take it easy and do not go to hard on yourself with this Linux. Also one thing. If you post something in any Linux comunity and it takes long time for them to answer, then that is the reality. They will answer, when the time is right.
122 • # Twisted (by Pssst on 2017-04-26 23:45:45 GMT from Netherlands)
I like OhioJoe recom.
I did not know about the SolydXK Enthusiast’s Editions.
Am downl.It now for my VirtualB. Do not know when I check it.
(All my hardware is busy so VirtualB has to do it)
I remember Solyd to be fine experiance,on real hardware, however MX performed better for me. But Solyd is just fine and way better then Mint xfce if I may say.
All day better then Mint LMDE. But that is past memory, maybe things changed..I do not know about the clipmanager in Solyd, but oh well.
Link to downl (at the very bottom)
Over and out.
123 • Reply to Pssst #121 #122 (by Twsted on 2017-04-27 00:48:42 GMT from United States)
#121 #122 Pssst
Hahahaaa, that yoda comment was awesome...LOL
And yes, Ive been through many distros, and basically tortured them in my own way.
Some I didnt like and some I did like. either in behavior or aesthetics or both.
The ones I liked I placed in my Linux Folder on a drive as an (.iso)
and some ive actually purchased on OSDisc to help support.
Also, many people think im only using my laptop, though my laptop currently has a LinuxMINT regular edition XFCE installed its not the only thing
im going to be installing linux on,
Im trying to get off Windows on my desktop.
because i dont like what windows is doing right now in regards to invading my privacy.
but there are softwares that are holding me back that are currently only on windows.
I cant just switch because I have thousands of songs and projects and things ive dont in the windows base.
So if I just shove over I cant use it the way I want to, too long to explain
and its not as simple as people paints it if they are not in the same line of work i do.
Audacity in Linux is not the same as Pro Tools HD, Ableton, Reason and Steinberg products in windows.
MAC is the only OS cross compatible with all my audio softwares & other softwares I have on my windows desktop.
And using wine with them , i never want to go through that crap ever again. pure disaster and headaches.
This is why ive been debating..........
As far for daily regular stuff, then yes Linux is great.
Emails, watching hulu, netflix, amazon prime, discord, teamspeak, IntelliJ Idea, Pycharm, OBS, and Steam.
(though AAA games still needs to grow within linux)
and a bunch of my files that are Illustrator, Photoshop & Premier based.
These are not Linux friendly yet. not to mention the amounts of files I have for Ableton, Pro Tools HDX, Steinberg Products and Reason & Reason Packs dont play nice with Linux.
I was going to get BitWig for Linux which is similar to Ableton Suite Live 9 in many ways,
but they changed their motto to subscription based. So I said no way.....
Only leaves me with Reaper, which is not the same as my Pro Tools HDX and Ableton
Remember I have thousands of files that I cant just trash.
so people saying "Why not use Reaper or Audacity" its not the same....LOL
.and 107 Bellan pointed out some of the points I was making, he hit most of them
Its hard to explain to people,
specially to those people who keep referring me to Audacity or Clemente...LMAO
124 • # 123 Twsted (by Pssst on 2017-04-27 01:20:13 GMT from Netherlands)
@ 123 - Twsted
Thank you for the large Input.
I totally understand and feel you there on the Win...s Situation.
Same here. Am using only Win7. And should one day this not work for some unexplained strange reasons, I do not care, nor will I use their pail of upgrade crap.
Yea I upgrade to Xp !
I must admit for serious work it looks you do, MAC is the way for you. And feel yourself in Linux slowly.
And dedicate one PC to this crap Win...s, If you have to use it, and just name the PC as
"Hildegard Gutentag" and look up daily Cooking Recipes, this way Micros.
Will think you are Big Mama cooking and listening to music.
You get the jist.
Allright , was a plesure talking. Am going for some biology technical maintenance called sleep. Over here in Europe its little early in the morning.
This Weks postings are awesome read from all of you.
Thank you and thank you Distrowatch.
And once more Greetings to all, from Hildegard Gutentag.
Oh and one more thing. I did find more up to date link for the Solydk
here it is;
the very top one with 1.9 GB is the Enthusiastic one.
The one with 1.5 GB, is stable, from 12-Apr-2017 17:59
125 • Post # 112 ...... Appearance (by Winchester on 2017-04-27 05:34:38 GMT from United States)
Ultimate Edition MATE has the same appearance as Linux Mint MATE only with a different logo , default wallpaper , and default icon and cursor theme.
The default wallpapers in the latest Ultimate Edition releases have been ugly but,there are quite a few to choose from in /usr/share/ . This can easily be changed with a couple of clicks by most "beginners". This background : http://forumubuntusoftware.info/download/file.php?id=16224&mode=view ,for an example ,has a very similar color scheme to Linux Mint. The bright shade of green can also be toned down with the GNU Image Manipulation Program.
Icon themes ,window manager themes, and cursors can also be changed with a couple of clicks. The point being is that there are more options installed in Ultimate Edition except for maybe the wallpapers. Mint does include quite a few wallpaper options but,that is about it as far as theme options go in Mint.
No default restrictions or warnings on legitimate software package upgrades / kernel updates either in Ultimate Edition as there is with Mint.
126 • @123 Twsted (by lenn on 2017-04-27 06:47:42 GMT from Canada)
A pizza has to be done in an oven, while milk has to be boiled on a stove. Just the same way, you use different operating systems for different applications. Every OS has its pluses and minuses, so use the relevant operating system for the given application, where it works best.
If your music is not stolen, for example, you don't have to worry about using Windows calling back to base. If you are worried about the US government having an eye on you through your computer, then the best is to change the country. Applications are made for a given platform, for example, Autocad is made for Windows and for Mac, but not for Linux. You may use Wine, but who is going to give you a guarantee that it'd work? And, Autocad is a specialized expensive application.
If you are using a Ford car, it won't work with spare parts from Fiat, would it? So, why the argument on Linux, Windows and OS X? This is only Linux and BSD world.
We have been wasting the whole 4 days on that argument. Why not talk about the quality of Linux package managers, self-contained packages such as AppImage, Flatpak, Orbital Apps, Snaps etc? It is this week's discussion theme. You are pulling people away from it.
(If you want to discuss problems concerning a given Linux distro, you take it to that distro's forum. It is that simple.)
127 • @126 Your attitude on privacy is disappointing. (by curious on 2017-04-27 08:31:31 GMT from Germany)
I am sick and tired of the sheeple-style argument "if you aren't criminal, you don't have to worry about privacy".
Please get this: Privacy is a RIGHT - even if many people act as if it were worthless.
Nobody, neither a big (or small) company nor a government agency should know what is on my computer or in my home or in my head, unless I explicitly decide that (and exactly what) I want them to know.
The question of whether I might have something to hide is irrelevant.
128 • re:MATE / Beginners Distributions (by session on 2017-04-27 10:11:37 GMT from United States)
Steering people away from Mint without reason sounds as arbitrary as Mint being the Beginner's Standard-Bearer. ...Unless you're concerned with "restrictions" on software packages, which is dealt with here: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3235#comment-135219
Mint has had quite a bit of sway in the Linux Desktop world; they've put alot of attention on Mate and Cinnamon, and their desktop-agnostic Xapps are taking hold. I suppose some people would want to stay with a distro that's at the forefront of those developments.
129 • @127 (by kaczor on 2017-04-27 14:41:28 GMT from Germany)
Privacy maybe something you want keep for yourself, but wasting time the topic of which operating system is better than the other is utterly useless!
130 • @123 and his paid apps (by adamek on 2017-04-27 16:29:02 GMT from United States)
> Audacity in Linux is not the same as Pro Tools HD, Ableton, Reason and Steinberg products in windows.<
>and a bunch of my files that are Illustrator, Photoshop & Premier based.
These are not Linux friendly yet. not to mention the amounts of files I have for Ableton, Pro Tools HDX, Steinberg Products and Reason & Reason Packs dont play nice with Linux.<
And so on...
I suppose, all those Pro Tools HD, Ableton, Reason and Steinberg products, Illustrator, Photoshop & Premier are given to you free...
If you pay for those "special" apps, then pay for the operating system too. That is, if you want to use them correctly.
If you want to argue about your privacy is getting breached, then complain to "that" OS or in its forum. What can the Linux or BSD people can do about that?
131 • shame on you (by disiple on 2017-04-28 01:51:26 GMT from Canada)
I was going to use linux but by what I have been reading & observing here I am not liking how linux elitist are pushing away growth of linux. if you speak of any word in regards of what people here have mentioned above "the industry standard of applications" all hell breaks lose within linux conformity. linux elitist do not want any software of outside major softwares companies to be part of linux. another point someone else pointed out in regards to having a central location for repos gets shot down immediately yet again all hell breaks lose, posts gets deleted and linux elitists with pitchforks are exposed.
I feel as a new user and observing the conformity of its linux elitist only a certain kind is allowed here and others are not.
many linux elitist here think the little softwares currently available within linux is suppose to replace the industry standard applications of 90% of the population of this planet use at work or pleasure that the major development companies have created. As a person that is considering leaving windows for personal reasons, I would rather go to apple mac platform then to be stuck here with linux elitist and their conformity ignorances.
shame on you.
132 • Oh, please... (by tom joad on 2017-04-28 03:12:09 GMT from United States)
If you want to install, learn and use Linux, fine. If you don't want to install, learn and use Linux, fine.
But don't come barging in here (not even a noob yet!!!) to lecture us about what you think about this or that or the other.
This is about software; good, solid, stable, relatively secure software with code that is wide open for anyone to see. And software is pretty much all it is about. That is what brings all of us here. That software causes us to be happy too. We like happy.
This is not about touchy, feely, fuzzy warm thoughts about how we should interact here. Folks here get on pretty well I must say. Furthermore that happens with out a lot of lecturing from those who wander in, wagging their fingers all around as they come in.
I would greatly encourage you to walk away from Windows, side step Apple and give this a go. Personally, I think Linux is way better. Yes, there is a learning curve but it is not insurmountable and I think well worth the effort. Despite the lecturing, anyone here would offer thoughts and advice, etc., on how to get started.
But please lighten up on the judgemental stuff. We are a pretty happy lot here and don't need or want the harshness.
133 • Is Linux good for beginners? (by Howard Schabow on 2017-04-28 08:05:03 GMT from United States)
I want to make some remarks, after reading all the posts.
I'm currently volunteering at a non-profit organization that recycles used computers called FreeGeek Chicago. We take old computers that are donated to us. Some of the old computers don't work anymore, so they get taken apart and recycled into their respective materials (such as various metals, plastics, wires, circuit boards, etc).
Some of the used computers still work fine, and if they meet our minimum specs, we will install Linux on it. Basically it needs to have at least a dual-core processor of 2 GHz or higher, and the motherboard should be able to handle 2 GB's or more of RAM memory. Most computers we build get 4 GB of RAM memory, and they all have at least a dual-core processor or better. We also securely wipe the hard drive of every computer that gets donated to us, for various reasons including data privacy.
Many of the people that come to FreeGeek Chicago to volunteer have very little computer experience, usually only Windows or Mac. Very few have any experience with Linux, some have never even heard of it. But they are taught how to build a computer, how to install Linux, and how to diagnose computer problems. And they can be taught other things, (programming, computer and Linux related) depending on when FreeGeek is able to hold classes.
Any volunteer that completes at least 24 hours of volunteer time, is able to walk away with a free computer with Linux installed on it. Over 900 people come to FreeGeek Chicago in a typical year, and they walk away with a totally free computer. All they have to do, is be willing to volunteer 24 hours or more, where they help FreeGeek with the recycling of broken computers, and they also learn how to build a computer, and install Linux, wipe hard drives for security and data privacy, etc.
It's mostly the poor and a few middle class people that come to FreeGeek Chicago. All kinds of people come to volunteer, including high school kids, seniors citizens, and people of all races, economic back grounds, etc. A lot of woman come also, it's not just all guys.
And while most people are excited to get the free computer (after volunteering for 24 hours), many people keep coming back, sometimes for years. I have been there since July of 2016, because I love learning about computers and Linux. And I have made many friends there.
Please understand, we get people of all races, ages and economic backgrounds. There are 70 year old women that come, and love working on computers, and using Linux. Many of the people that show up at FreeGeek Chicago, have little or no experience with Linux. Some have little experience of any type with computers. Some have never owned a computer. Some have never done a google search in their lives.
Sure, some just a free computer. But many of the people that come, are willing to learn about computers and Linux.
I really do believe that Linux can be good for even complete beginners, because I see it every week with my eyes.
134 • @133 (by anticapitalista on 2017-04-28 10:06:12 GMT from Greece)
@133 - excellent post.
135 • @133 (by Hoos on 2017-04-28 10:12:07 GMT from Singapore)
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I think people who come to Linux without any preconceptions from Windows or Mac, and are interested in learning, will fare well.
136 • @Twsted in #7 and others (by Kazlu on 2017-04-28 14:49:43 GMT from France)
Thank you very much for sharing your opinion! It's always good to have the opinion of a beginner from time to time, it helps knowing what people that are not using Linux (or have just begun) think of it.
When beginning into Linux, maybe don't insist too much if a distro is not working whereas another is (except if you absolutely WANT to experiment and find the solution, of course). Why bother? If there is ONE benefit of having many different distros, it's that if one fails the next one might work, specifically because they are different ;) I had the same problem when I tried Mageia, theoretically and philosophically matching perfectly what I wanted, but in practice the two consecutive versions I tried showed some show-stopper bugs that led me to give up. I found happiness somewhere else, that's all.
For the record, I stopped distro-hopping when I met MX Linux (with MX-15). I would not suggest it to a beginner, but since I see wou already tried MX-16... I like that this distro uses a large part of unmodified from Debian (which I trust a lot in terms of quality/stability) while providing up-to-date software and an easier to use desktop.
"I was going to use Ubuntu, but I wanted to stay as close as possible to Debian itself"
Yes! By all means do that! Well I am this enthusiast just because my reasoning is the same. However, your problem is typical: your computer has hardware that is not correctly handled by Debian because the current stable Debian version is a bit too old. I would join what others say: the easiest solution for you is probably to stay with Linux Mint or an Ubuntu variant at least until the next Debian is out. Then you can try this new Debian, it should handle your hardware better. And LMDE as well when it will catch up with this new Debian. In the meantime, Ubuntu/Linux Mint should bring you anything you need.
However, if you are willing to try a few things, since you tried MX-16, know that the guys behind it provide you a more up-to-date kernel with a relatively easy method to install it. Check out this page: https://mxlinux.org/user_manual_mx16/mxum.html#toc-Subsection-7.6
With Linux Mint and Ubuntu Budgie, you're in good hands. Mint is an excellent place to start. Distro hopping is a good way to learn. In your #27 post I see you already tried quite a lot of different distros, that should give you a pretty representative point of view! Which are the ones you like, and more importantly, why?
"Linus made Linux for the reason to have a different OS that was not proprietary and enclosed within itself."
Well, actually Linux did not create the OS, he just added the missing part (Linux, or 'the Linux kernel" to be accurate) to an existing OS called GNU. That's why you may sometines see people talking about GNU/Linux: The GNU operating system completed with the Linux kernel. GNU was not complete and not fully functional without Linux. Thanks to Linus, the last piece was finally there. People now often say just "Linux" because it's simpler than "GNU/Linux". There are several guys behind GNU, but the main one is Richard Stallman, that's the guy that really pushed first for libre and open source software.
"Its really sad that linux users think this way, one would think that linux users want linux to be much bigger than what it currently is, but looks like they dont. though yes linux is open source, linux is free and all, but if people dont want linux to be as successful as mac and win, then whats the sense ? why do this, why be an os?"
There, you have it: the beginning of an explanation of why there are so many Linux distros and why there is not a centralized "store" (and there can't be any). Different people want different things. Some want Linux to be this very particular OS that you can customize a lot, even if it requires work. So they want it to stay clean and not necessarily user friendly. That is more or less the way of thinking of Arch Linux developpers: Arch Linux is of tremendous quality and their documentation is excellent, but it requires quite a bit of work to do what you want. And on the other hand, you have people that want to take the best out of Linux and make an easy to use OS out of it, geared towards beginners and non geek users. Think what you want of Ubuntu, but that is what Mark Shuttleworth is trying to do. That is why Ubuntu has a polished look, what resembles the most an "application store", some commercial companies that are working with them to make compatible drivers, etc. What is great about Linux is this: these worlds can never be united as one, but they can both coexist! And in between you will find a myriad of other points of view. Each distro was born out of a particular way of seing things. Pick the one you adhere the most! You can read the "why this OS?" or "about that OS" pages of websites, this might be a good way to select your preferred distro (provided it works on your computer of course).
As for a central place to gather software, it's complicated and it subject to trust (you may trust the Debian or openSUSE folks, but not the owners of the hypothetical centralized app store). Thas is what folks behind Snaps, Flatpak and Nix are trying to do however: a cross-distro application store. But they are still young projects and not ready to be used by the average Joe and not very full of applications. But with time these solutions will mature and grow. I tried Nix - not bad!
Finally, a word: if you are looking for hardware support for graphic cards or so, stay in the Ubuntu derivatives, that is where you should have the better working drivers. Ubuntu and its derivatives are probably the most used distros on the desktop and companies know that, that's why Ubuntu is their primary target.
137 • 'Shame on you' (by Dave Postles on 2017-04-28 15:54:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
No, shame on you for even considering Apple which is a gross global tax avoider, has established its position by insisting on only its own hardware (including printers), is basically based on BSD in OSX (i.e. Unix, so the same parent as Linux), has a very poor track record in its Chinese production factories (FoxConn), and hikes its prices astronomically because it is a fetishist product., Microsoft leveraged out the competition - remember Netscape, WordPerfect? - and threatens OEMs if they don't install Windows. It too is allegedly a gross global tax avoider. ISO accepted LibreOffice xml as its standard, but MS leveraged that position too. For myself, I don't like gross global tax avoiders and oligopolies. Feel the freedom.
138 • Linux app packages (by lenn on 2017-04-28 17:50:05 GMT from Canada)
Linux file usually doesn't need an extension, such as .deb, .rpm or .whatnot. Arch, Gentoo and some other operating systems use their package managing application to pull in tar files from their repos and place them in relevant folders in the root folder. Then the application works.
In PCLinuxOS for example, the Apt package manager (unpackaging manager) pulls in .rpm file and place the unpacked files in relevant folders in root. The idea is to place those files in relevant folders. It can be done with many "package managers."
The thing is, different distros are making their libraries bit differently, so the other distro won't be able to use. What AppImage, Flatpak, Orbital Apps or Snaps are trying to do is to make self-contained, sometimes fully scrambled (iso like), which would live anywhere else, except in the root folder. They only give us the feeling that we have our own (private) applications, but without the root folder, no distro would exist.
(You just can't run away from the root, and that's why Puppy Linux never tried to give us a pseudo user.)
139 • root folder (by lenn on 2017-04-28 17:53:59 GMT from Canada)
What I meant by the root folder is not what you see as root in the file system, but the whole file system. What you see as /root is just the home folder of the root.
140 • @133 (by gee7 on 2017-04-28 21:59:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
@133 Thanks for your interesting post, Howard. Such organisations as the one you work for (and your sharing of your experience of it) make me feel glad to be part of the Linux community and are an inspiration to others.
I see that the GNU/Linux systems that you install are Xubuntu 14.04 and Kubuntu 14.04 - it would broaden the choices available if you could also offer Devuan (as long as interested beginners were told how to update on the command line) as it is straightforward and stable - the user reviews of it here on Distrowatch generally confirm that. Whatever, keep on Free and Geeky. Best wishes
141 • Recommendations for those new to Linux (by Fairly Reticent on 2017-04-29 05:00:43 GMT from United States)
Devuan has only recently put out its first Release Candidate.
Several derivatives have been generated; clearly there's interest. There's also a procedure for converting from a DebIan-based system (don't remember if there's one for conversion from an Ubuntu-based system). These make good starting points, but shouldn't they be thoroughly tested against the rest of the available repositories and other sources first, before promoting it to beginners?
Has anyone installed, say, Guix on a non-GuixSD system? Any live ISOs?
What about 0install (ZeroInstall)?
142 • @41, 56, 60, 66, 72. Distros are "cars" for GEEKS-ONLY ?? (by Greg Zeng on 2017-04-29 07:38:02 GMT from Australia)
@41 • Everything of Linux (by Sofia Smith
" ... Every linux distro has especific application like the cars.
For mountains, Jeep. For highways (german), Porsche. For ecologics, Prius (or Tesla)."
Happy bragging rights to you: many cars, many storage garages, plenty of reliable, competent support resources, etc. My nursing-home-carer can only afford a Camry (MINT MATE, or Windows). My 4-year-old notebook is running 3x Windows (40 GB each, excluding applications), plus 12x Linux operating systems (10 GB each, including all applications). This notebook moves on its wheeled nursing-bed-table from bed to "living-room".
@56 • Reply to #51 and #52 (by Twsted
Seems many comments do not understand "virtualbox" is not an operating system. It exists "virtually", and disappears after it is turned off, to its birthday suit, without modifications, setting changes & updates.
Many Linux geeks seem to think that Linux users must be operating system geeks. At least 98% of computer users do want to be operating system geeks. They want to do other things, like run applications, where the underlying system is "invisible". That's why we pay taxes, elect or representatives & laborers. We can't geek into the many very deep layers of the structures around us (substructures, superstructures, infra-structures, etc).
@60 • @ 59 Solus : "Greg Zeng is an old lad, so he has lot of time to kill. He goes around attacking everyone and everything. ... "
Correct, partly. Like all semiotic research engineers, we are self-taught, self-directed, etc. Linux is just one mammalian artifact of just one species of many on this planet, atm. Self-absorbed juniors translate all perceived reality as "attacks" onto their very fragile ego. If it is in (A-N) code, or (A-V) code, these juniors interpret the received message as BINARY (good, bad), (for, against). Sorry for the autistic binaries who think the world exists only as code. This should be mentioned in DSM-6 or DSM-7, when "they" (the slow-learner A-N coders) create these versions of "reality".
@66 • Rants and elitists (by lupus does not know free markets work. If the 98% of potential users keep away, then Linux has a very big problem. When you grow up, you ill discover the listening to the gripes & limitations of the 98% creates "democracy". Linux atm is very smugly happy with authoritarian CLI dictatorship.
In my old age, we retire "seniors" have had many decades being puppeteers (mentors) behind our "mentees". By definition, "mentees" are supposed to be ignorant fast learners. Noobs among the mentees think that reality is accurately encoded into alphanumerics (A-N). What they don't know is that all (A-N) are time-culture virtual-prisons, that virtualize reality. This virtualization is very inaccurate, outdated, and rapidly changing. The best known examples are the world's old religions, whose founders were illiterate, innumerate, psychologically crippled-perverted (DSM-V), and mono-cultural.
@ 72 • Pictures speaks a thousand words by Twsted
When you make $$ on a populist channel (YouTube, Distrowatch, NYT, WP, etc), the $-dependent publisher cannot dare to "offend" the $-paying public with "TRUTH". That is too artistic, too dangerous, too much like Linus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drUMRMnxvBk&t=675s "Solus Revisited...I missed some really important stuff the first time!". "Switched to Linux" (the YouTube publisher) had to pretend to eat humble-pie, for being truthful. SOLUS is absolutely correct for hiding its "SETTINGS ICONS" in places that are not expected. Many Linux coders believe this is
correct. As "Switched to Linux" apologizes, it is of for SOLUS to disguise the main files with bad-icons, reserved
for dependent libraries. All the CLI-crazy Linux distributions do this. It is the norm. RTFM. SNAFU
(Situation Normal, All Fouled Up, as I learnt in my time in the Australian Army).
Coders are juniors, as are publishers of computer applications & systems. Our technical writers, teachers & marketing people need to be accountable to the human users, the 98%. Senior people need to somehow get these autistic juniors to be more ergonomic, more reality & user friendly. By definition, the (A-N) coders are psychologically mono-cultural. Usually by monocultural inbreeding. Usually distressingly pressure-cooked in psychologically crippled institutions.
Finally many noobs have no idea what a GUI is. The infant children are so happy with basc alpha-numerics, they want everyone to stay at their alpha-numeric CLI stage. In my micro-computer days (1979), our Supercal & Visicalc users had to literally fight the mini & mainframe computer idiots who so hated our electronic spreadsheets, with our GUI layouts. GUI done properly, replaces Linux's "MAN" pages. One day the CLI slow learners might discover that.
143 • Re.. my previous post @133 (by Howard Schabow on 2017-04-29 07:59:15 GMT from United States)
Thank you for the comments @134, 135 and 140.
That is true @140, at FreeGeek Chicago we are currently installing the 14.04 version of Kubuntu and Xubuntu on our computers. Laptops get Xubuntu 14.04 LTS, while desktops get Kubuntu 14.04 LTS.
FreeGeek Chicago is currently in the process of updating the install server so we can install the latest LTS release, which is 16.04. We would continue to use both Kubuntu and Xubuntu, on desktops and laptops respectfully, until we make any changes in the future.
Sometimes we install other Linux distributions for anyone that asks, such as Linux Mint, or Debian, etc.
144 • @123 Twsted, another long time Windows guy here (by BobC on 2017-04-29 20:50:34 GMT from United States)
At home, I'm pretty much off Wiindows now, having gone from CP/M to DOS to W95, 98, 2000, NT, Vista, XP, 7 and 10 over the years, and required to use it at work. These are just my opinions, based on my experiences getting away from Windows, so here goes.
I wasn't able to get *everything* off Windows. You may be in a similar boat with some apps.
I was able to migrate most of my day to day use to Linux. I tried about 20 distros back in 2014 and the closest ones to having all of what I wanted out of the box were Manjaro, AntiX and SlackoPup.
Slackopup had low system requirements and lots of apps I liked available in the repositories it could load from and it worked, and I migrated to it. I ran it for a couple years but I couldn't get the newer versions to work, and fell behind on things like the browser and flash player, and got to where I couldn't play videos. I found that if things worked or you could make them work with minimal help, you were fine, but if the problems were more major, the odds of a solution weren't so good.
Anyway, earlier this year I moved to AntiX 16, https://distrowatch.com/antix and am having a lot better luck there, especially due to a friendly group that's developing and supporting it, which for a relative Linux newbie, is important, I think. I even got it working from my new laptop (a Dell i7 7559 Gaming machine), with the i7-6700HQ processor, which I've only found 2 distros that can run on it (AntiX 16 and Knoppix 7.7.1) after trying many distros, few of which would even boot, or load. The problems are due I think to to the i7 8 processor CPU and the combined i915 and nVidia GTX 960m 3840x2160 graphics, which are pretty new.
I'd suggest finding what distros are "happy" to run on your machine, and then choosing from those one you feel comfortable with, features wise. Run them from flashdrive or give them each 15 or 20gb and keep trying different ones, using what you learn on each for the next. If you are trying to do this without learning, you will need to stick to the distros that accommodate that, but those seem to frustrate me, so I won't try to suggest of those.
I think buying flashdrives and such only benefits the distro if you are actually buying it from the distro, not from a company that makes different ones, and would suggest the distro itself would better benefit from a direct donation, instead. I actually did so with AntiX because I liked it and its attitude so much, and want to see it continue to improve, so I supported it with a donation.
Everyone working on linux is doing it pretty much because they like to, which I think is just a great attitude, and so I suggest keeping that in mind when asking for help. A cookie or two of thanks for the cool things people create and give away will keep that person enthused to work on creating that fix or next new toy you might really wish for.
145 • @126 Fords, Fiats etc. (by imnotrich on 2017-04-30 07:35:46 GMT from Mexico)
Expanding on the car analogy, I drove a car designed in Italy, assembled in Australia by Ford using mostly Mazda parts which was then exported to the USA as a Mercury. It required lots of tinkering and hunting for obscure parts (Because only 66,000 were made Ford stopped supporting it, but Mazda parts were still out there). She took great care of me for 308,250 miles before she was adopted by another family.
And that's kinda where we are with Linux today. It's not always possible to get the packages, dependencies or whatever you need from one distro, but because of Debian, Ubuntu and Mint's common heritage I've been known to grab packages for their "cousins" and run one or the other Debian based system successfully as a smorgasbord rather than a homogenous distro.
Linux CAN benefit from some standardization, I think our lack of standardization is part of the reason we're mischaracterized as primarily hobbyists but that said it would be downright boring if every distro is the same as every other.
Does anyone know why Microsoft makes a version of Office for Mac, but not for Linux? Because Microsoft knows that doing so would be corporate suicide. So many users would flee Windows for Linux it'd be game over. Not sure what Adobe's excuse is, or other companies who refuse to port their flagship product to Linux but until then, most folks who interact with the corporate world will have to keep at least one machine running Windows (or dual booting), and that makes me sad - because I don't want to share any data with Bill Gates, or the NSA.
146 • nix-env (by ro0t on 2017-04-30 10:06:08 GMT from Germany)
i was able to install nix on backbox4.7
nix-env -i playonlinux
now i can play heroes 3 without problem
147 • LMDE, Linux, & alt package managers (by M.Z. on 2017-04-30 19:39:24 GMT from United States)
I've been using LMDE 2 in my laptop since it came out & have had no problems that I can remember. It also plugs in fine to the HDMI port on this newish 1080p TV I got second hand & displays fairly well for everything but certain full screen videos (which have tearing). No distro is perfect everywhere, but LMDE has been really great for me on my laptop with Intel HD 4000 graphics & Intel Wireless. If you have a problem the right thing to do is to file a bug report, not rant pointlessly on some Linux related website. As an example I had a big issue with the graphics support in Mageia 6 sta2 (I guess it's a beta?). Anyway instead of ranting how PCLinuxOS is the only distro that works on my old desktop with nvidia graphics I submitted a bug report & described the issue as best I could. I think it's far better than throwing bricks, because I know Mageia works well elsewhere & has been nearly as good on my laptop as LMDE 2 has, but I can get the video on Netflix/Hulu to playback prettier on Mageia 5 KDE than LMDE Cinnamon.
Anyway, long story short I recommend finding the best use for each distro based on the hardware support & context I'm using the distro for. I can easily go back & forth between LMDE, Mint, Mageia & PCLOS & use whats best for my particular hardware that I'm try to get a new distro on. They all work fairly reliably after install & can serve as an excellent desktop. When I hit a roadblock in hardware I try to file a bug report if I can & move onto the next distro in my toolkit I feel would work best for the situation. I think it's both nicer & more productive than the 'I Think UR Distor Is Junk, Fix It 4 Me Losers' type vibe I seemed to get in some comments this week.
@131 - Shame on me?
That's a bit of a low blow & ugly generalization about all Linux users based on what you think you see in some of us. The fact is we don't receive great support from commercial software vendors when we are generic Linux Desktop users. There are plenty of us who don't like it & wish everything would just go on our OS of choice, but there are work arounds like Wine, Nix, .deb/.rpm downloads, & Virtual Machines. Of course many of us find that the best way is to get the nearest free & open alternative in to repos & just adapt to the limitations, because its usually both good enough & far easier & more reliable. Sorry if that isn't good enough for you, but it's a limitation I'm happy to accept because of all the other virtues I see in Linux & free & open software.
Frankly throwing bricks at the rest of us for accepting the limitations of Linux & then declaring that you are going to throw thousands into some fancy new Mac is infinitely more elitist than anything I heard any Linux user say on DW. I used old recycled hardware for many of my computing needs & think Linux is a great fit for anyone willing to accept it's limitations & work with it a bit. You do understand the deep irony in you declaring how buying a new Mac is less elitist than what I'm doing don't you? I don't drive around in a Ferrari or use a Mac, & I don't judge other computer users for doing what they think works well enough for them by declaring 'that's not good enough for me, I have to do it this way' & then acting like people that are just making due are somehow the ones being elitist. Sorry to rant & I don't mean to be mean, but you really did come off mean, elitist, & judgmental.
I largely agree with your sentiments & think Linux is part of my own efforts to avoid unethical sweatshop junk like Mac/Foxconn. I would say toning it down a bit would be nice & facilitate a more convincing & productive dialog, but I think the second part of my own response isn't really any better. To top it off I can't resist posting mine as is. Anyway, keep up the good fight. It can be really hard to find ethically made products & it's great to remember that Linux can at least make the software part easy.
As a more general note I'm thinking Nix looks like the best alternative for me. I use LMDE & Mageia, but get tired of some software like LibreOffice being so outdated. I think Nix could be the best way to get some fresher software & alternative web browsers in my old stable distros.
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