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1 • Gobo packages (by DaveW on 2017-01-23 01:43:27 GMT from United States) |
It seems like the Gobo file structure would eliminate the need for Flatpak, Snap and the like. Am I correct or am I missing something?
2 • KDE neon : ubiquity vs calamares (by Tran Older on 2017-01-23 03:13:42 GMT from Vietnam)
Please do not replace ubiquity with calamares in User Edition. Calamares DID crash a couple of times on the process of installing Manjaro (Arch-based) and Netrunner (Debian-based). And when it did not crash, the percentage of the installation bar did not fully reflect the process. While calamares is very promising, it is not yet as stable and easy to use like ubiquity or yast.
3 • TrueOS and OpenRC (by cykodrone on 2017-01-23 04:06:44 GMT from Canada)
I don't understand the obsession with boot times, how the init system and operating system behave after booting are what is important to me. Who boots/reboots so much that a few seconds would matter? Also, in this day and age of SSDs, booting is naturally faster.
I don't run applications remotely, I even have remote access to my router by my ISP's 3rd party vendors blocked (there were 3). Poke around in your router's software, you'll find them if there are any, if you can't disable them, change the passwords if possible.
4 • "Latest Packages" - NEW (Linux Kernels) !! (by Greg Zeng on 2017-01-23 04:13:06 GMT from Australia)
"01/20 linux • 4.9.5"
Followed the links above, in this week's issue of Distrowatch. It missed "01/15 linux 4.9.4".
It also fails to mention http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ **
This link has ALL the Linux kernels, from "v2.6.24-hardy/" to the very latest "drm-intel-nightly/ 2017-01-23 03:20".
Difference is, no compilation from source code needed. Compilation is tedious, CLI, slow, skilled and very error-prone. Most Desktop Linux users are using Ubuntu-based distributions, such as Mint, Lite, Zorin, Neon, Peppermint, Watt OS, Xubuntu, etc. Some non-Ubuntu-based operating systems also have their own versions of Grub-Customizer also.
Most Desktop users just need to select the three necessary files from the link ** above, for any of the six or so CPU types available: "ALL", "IMAGE" and "HEADER". Temporarily copy these to the Linux Desktop. Double-click on each of them, in the order listed, and they will auto-install.
Alternatively, run the following command from a Linux terminal where the three files are placed: "sudo dpkg -i *.deb"
If you want to select which Linux kernel of many, or which operating system of many, then you need have installed Grub-Customizer, or similar, in Linux. This application is installed in only very few distributions, atm. Otherwise you need to install it with a few CLI commands:
When the choice and preferred order of operating systems is made, this is just cut-paste of the lines. No more CLI rubbish.
: INSTALLING GRUB-CUSTOMIZER
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:danielrichter2007/grub-customizer
sudo apt-get update
echo Y | sudo apt-get install grub-customizer
: RUNNING GRUB-CUSTOMIZER
: Do not close the terminal window until customizing ends.
5 • remote desktop client (by django on 2017-01-23 04:14:46 GMT from Suriname)
I use nomachine nxserver and clients to reach my desktop from abroad and am quiete happy with what I have seen up till now.
6 • Remote access. (by Ankleface Wroughtlandmire on 2017-01-23 05:26:45 GMT from Ecuador)
TeamViewer for NAT / firewall traversal, or if it's a VPS I've had excellent results with X2Go (open source).
7 • Remote Client (by X2Go Shill on 2017-01-23 05:33:57 GMT from United States)
I use X2Go myself because unlike VNC, I can have passwords longer than 8 characters, and the connection takes place over ssh. It runs on nxserver as the backend but is much easier to setup.
8 • TigerVNC (by hobbitland on 2017-01-23 06:34:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
For remote login I use TigerVNC. Its the only VNC server that supports dynamic resizing of the remote desktop. So you can resize the desktop based on the screen resolution of the viewing client.
Also I use VNC over a ssh tunnel. I wrote a "svncviewer.py" wrapper to make it easy for me so don't have to worry about the details.
Running a separate VNC session is better than using your desktop for security reasons. Viewing real desktop remotely is a security risk. Screen has to be unlocked and otehrs can and control your screen.
9 • Refuse (by Thesim on 2017-01-23 06:44:06 GMT from Italy)
ssh -X ipserver
10 • unable to submit mini-review (by ams on 2017-01-23 07:06:48 GMT from United States)
My submission attempt on the "mini-review" apparently failed, so am posting here what I drafted
Instead of of delivering on their promise to protect and preserve user choice, the devuan developers have undertaken a perverse course of action -- "eliminating" systemd -related files (.service files, etc) from existing packages drawn from jessie repository & redistributing those packages otherwise unmodified/unimproved. Several other distro releases which are based on debian jessie, including antiX 16, DebianDog64, MX Linux 16, have shown that avoiding systemd as default init while preserving users' choice is, in fact, possible.
DW hasn't provided much guidance in terms of quantifying a rating value. The '4' I have chosen represents my expectation that five or under "means" less-desirable, or less admirable, or less viable than average. I've held back, didn't slap a subjective '1' here, with due respect toward the fact that devuan has succeeded in the task of (raising awareness about preserving init choice and) building out a build and repo server infrastructure.
11 • About HandyLinux death and DFLinux (by Frederic Bezies on 2017-01-23 07:16:38 GMT from France)
HandyLinux was hostily forked by some of its user to create a so-called accessibility version, which is not really accessible after all.
So HandyLinux creator decided to move on into a new project, called DFLinux (DF = Debian Facile, in english Easy Debian) which is french speaking only and which can be downloaded here : https://lescahiersdudebutant.fr/dflinux.html
You can read : "`DFLinux` prend la suite du projet HandyLinux qui accompagne les débutants sur Debian depuis 2013. " -> "`DFLinux` takes over the HandyLinux project which accompanies beginners on Debian since 2013."
Had to add this. Free software world is full of good willing people... Or not!
12 • Another Review For GoboLinux (by Edword Bill on 2017-01-23 07:41:27 GMT from Turkey)
I found another review for GoboLinux here: https://fosspost.org/2017/01/22/gobolinux-a-linux-distribution-with-new-filesystem-hierarchy/
The conclusion is as the writer states:
"GoboLinux introduces a lot of new ideas and designs into the Linux distributions world. Things like the filesystem hierarchy and the compiling scripts are amazing examples of what “modernizing” Linux distributions may really mean. However, the distribution wasn’t intended to be “user-friendly” or “ready-out-of-the-box”.
Because of this, it can be said actually that the distribution manages to achieve its goals. An experianced user with a lot of time would definitely enjoy using and tweaking GoboLinux to fit his needs and learn in his way".
13 • Poll (by Andy Mender on 2017-01-23 07:56:00 GMT from Austria)
While I use X11 forwarding via SSH mostly, I think the poll should contain a "X11 forwarding + SSH" option. Sometimes we do need to login to Windows machines also :D.
I really like the idea of GoboLinux. Nix is also worth looking into. It makes for incredibly reproducible server deployments and the "one-config" design is similar to the /etc/rc.conf we're so familiar with ;).
14 • @10 (by Hoos on 2017-01-23 07:57:45 GMT from Singapore)
I suspect you need to present an actual review of the distro's latest iso, ie, put it through its paces and let us know whether it installs and runs well or terribly, etc.
Right now, your statement is more a general opinion of their direction/method for creating their distro and the quality of their forum software and forum posts.
I've tried Nelum-Dev1 (devuan-based) before. Nelum was ok live I guess, kind of an echo of the old Crunchbang, but I didn't find it interesting enough to install for real on my computer. As for Devuan beta, I had lots of issues with the installer and gave up.
But my point is that in the 3 and a bit lines above I probably "reviewed" Devuan and a derivative distro more than you did in your post.
15 • correction: inaccurate examples (by ams on 2017-01-23 08:14:53 GMT from United States)
With MX Linux 16 and DebianDog64 and a few others listed at without-system.org, it is easy/trivial for a user to switch to systemd init. Maybe the switch is TOO easy, as in, could happen "accidentally" if a user tries to install (for instance) gnome shell. With antiX 16, a user desiring to switch would need to remove apt-pinning and adjust repo priority to prefer package versions from debian's repository.
16 • antiX and systemd (by anticapitalista on 2017-01-23 08:41:43 GMT from Greece)
Just to make it clear about antiX and systemd.
antiX has decided to free itself of systemd by not including it nor libsystemd0. That means we repack certain packages with systemd or libsystemd0 dependencies, eg cups, util-linux, mate and many others. Users will find systemd service files on antiX since they are packaged upstream (Debian in our case) in some packages to make them compatible with systemd eg rsync, but they do not depend on either systemd or libsystemd0.
Of course users are free to do whatever they like with their installation of antiX, but we advise them not to use systemd. If they want a lightweight systemd Debian, they would be better installing Debian and not antiX.
17 • @3, Boot times (by Tommi Nieminen on 2017-01-23 09:34:40 GMT from Finland)
”I don't understand the obsession with boot times, how the init system and operating system behave after booting are what is important to me. Who boots/reboots so much that a few seconds would matter?”
It depends. If I have a quick task to do, do I care to switch on my desktop computer if it takes a minute just to boot, then a while to get logged in, yet another while to get the relevant program opened etc.?
Yes, SSDs made a big difference, but still, I think you shouldn’t just ridicule the “obsession” with boot times as it’s plainly a relevant thing for many of us.
18 • RE: Boot times (by Andy Mender on 2017-01-23 11:08:05 GMT from Austria)
I think it's more relevant for spinning VMs and containers. One would like the init and service manager to be slim so that booting is as fast as possible and service management doesn't take too much of the container's performance away.
On a regular desktop it's more of an "obsession", I think, than an actual need/gain.
19 • RE: Gobo packages (by asyncial on 2017-01-23 12:32:56 GMT from Germany)
"It seems like the Gobo file structure would eliminate the need for Flatpak, Snap and the like. Am I correct or am I missing something?"
That is an interesting question. I think it depends, on how Gobo handles depencies (if it handles them at all). The thing about Flatpak and Snap is to eliminate the differences of different Distributions for developers, so it creates a runtime, which is the same on every system (at least, that's what I heard).
I would say GoboLinux eliminates the need for a package manager, because you don't have to track the files. Your command to remove a package would be rm -rf and rmdir. That's really nice, as it is using standard unix tools to achieve that goal. The problem remaining ist the handling of dependencies, which would stay the responsibility of the user.
20 • Dedoimedo Interview (by mechanic on 2017-01-23 12:39:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
A couple of things from this interesting interview:
How young Jesse Smith looks!
I notice he likes Peppermint - one of the things I always try with a new distro is running various youtube videos - the latest Peppermint fails this test on my system although the previous version was quite happy running them. Neither html5 or Flash players seem to run. It's this kind of issue that keeps me running Windows here.
21 • @Dedoimedo@20_What-3-main? (by gee7 on 2017-01-23 13:08:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for such an interesting edition of Distrowatch this week, team. And special thanks to Jesse for the work he is doing updating the Distrowatch search and for giving an full interview with Dedoimedo - yes, mechanic, Jesse does look young ion his photo there (and full of a young man's energy) but what fascinated me was the rounding of a nerd - Jesse has many interests, it appears, but 3 of his main ones may well be Computing, Tractors and Yoga.
For me, I have a variety of things I like to do or research, but 3 of my main interests are Computing, World Cinema and hand-made Pottery ... Off topic, I know, but I wonder what 3 main interests round off other Linux readers here?
@20 There is a Linux OS waiting for you with information about it on Distrowatch, mechanic, so no need to keep running Windows. It is extremely rare for a Linux OS not to be able to display YouTube videos so you just chose the wrong one in trying out Peppermint, or maybe there was an error in your download or other reason. Devuan is highly flexible as is Linux Mint Mate. Please try again, the Linux world is welcoming.
22 • New ratings (by vw72 on 2017-01-23 13:59:45 GMT from United States)
I think that it would be more useful on the new ratings page if the distros are first sorted by the number of ratings and then the actual ranking. One person rating their distro a 10 is less useful than multiple people rating a distro. For instance which is more useful to a view, a bunch of 10 ranked distros that were rated as such by one person each or a distro rated at 9.2 as an average of 30 people?
Listing by number of reviews first would also be another indication of popularity (at least by those willing to do reviews), compared to the simple page hit rankings.
Just a thought -- and another great issue of Distrowatch!
23 • Remote apps (by nightflier on 2017-01-23 14:01:19 GMT from United States)
I've found X11 forwarding via SSH to be too slow to be of practical use when connecting via the Internet. VNC does much better, and I do use that from time to time. However, most of my remote computing is done via RDP, tunnelled trough SSH. Say what you want about Microsoft, but their remote desktop is good. I'll RDP to a Windows machine in the office, then VNC from there to Linux.
24 • Second thought on new ratings page (by vw72 on 2017-01-23 14:04:18 GMT from United States)
It might be useful, and garner more input, if there were categories to rate, such as Ease of Installation, Community, Documentation, Hardware Compatability, etc. as indicated in the outdated graphic from Linux Format Magazine: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CAinBMkj-_8/UA6_l-3juDI/AAAAAAAAALI/PsCOJX-T9Mw/s1600/distro_stats_lg.png
People could simply assign a value from 1 to 5 for each category and those are combined for a total score. Then on the actual distro page, the average of each category can be displayed to help people in choosing a distro.
25 • Interests (by Jesse on 2017-01-23 14:12:12 GMT from Canada)
>> "what fascinated me was the rounding of a nerd - Jesse has many interests, it appears"
I believe the world is as interesting as our interest in it. I like to learn and explore almost every topic. I'm curious about almost everything from airplanes to zebra behaviour.
@1: "It seems like the Gobo file structure would eliminate the need for Flatpak, Snap and the like. Am I correct or am I missing something?"
Gobo's file system structure and technologies like Flatpak and Snap seem to be solving two different problems. Gobo deals with organizing files and making them easy to clean up. But Gobo doesn't do anything to handle dependencies or security. Flatpak and Snap fix the dependency issue (from the user's point of view) and add extra security features.
26 • remote wayland (by Libcha on 2017-01-23 14:13:18 GMT from Czech Republic)
Long enough I use ssh -X (or -Y) to tunnel Xorg via ssh. I found this feature particularly handy. I'd like to ask anybody for a clue, how to do the same with Wayland. Shall I expect, that in the future, when Wayland replaces messy Xorg, this feature disappears? Thanks.
27 • Remote apps (by a on 2017-01-23 14:46:53 GMT from France)
I use TigerVNC as the client and x11vnc for the server, as copy-paste doesn’t work when using TigerVNC server. TightVNC was noticiably slower than Tiger, and IIRC copy-paste worked randomly.
I’ve also briefly tried xpra which worked very well, but it doesn’t show the whole screen.
28 • Gobo Linux (by Sam on 2017-01-23 15:01:45 GMT from United States)
Here we are in 2017 and today's review of Gobo Linux sounds exactly like the experience I had testing the distro back in 2009.
29 • remote access (by wally on 2017-01-23 15:09:43 GMT from United States)
I use x11vnc, but I only run it on demand, so ssh to start vnc server, then vinegre to access.
30 • remote desktopping with XRDP (by Mark D on 2017-01-23 15:19:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned XRDP in relation to remote desktops.
You can install it easily on a server (it was pretty much as simple as apt-get install on ubuntu, then allow the port in the firewall),
then you can connect to it using Windows remote desktop, or Vinagre in Linux.
What's nice is that you can log in to it without disturbing people already using the machine - each logged in user gets a new session.
31 • x11 (by Tim Dowd on 2017-01-23 15:56:16 GMT from United States)
I use x11 over ssh on my home network for a couple reasons
The first is that I have a computer with all our music on it hooked up to the home stereo system. X11 means that this can be controlled via any computer in the house, or even an android phone pretty easily.
The second is that it makes older PCs somewhat useful. All they have to run is a lightweight desktop, and the resource intensive stuff can be on the server. This isn't fast, but if the only thing you'd be doing with the PC was checking email or the weather it can be good enough and convenient
32 • Daphile (by Tim Arnold on 2017-01-23 16:06:48 GMT from United States)
A great self-contained audio-server. Well supported and well documented. The guy that runs it is pretty responsive as well. Gets my vote !!
33 • remote access (by Steve S on 2017-01-23 16:15:46 GMT from United States)
I use VNC as a convenient way to access and do things on a Raspberry pi3.
I have Xubuntu on the pi with vnc4server. I can access it from Ubuntu with the Remmina client, which can also make an SSH connection,
34 • Ranking projects (by Jesse on 2017-01-23 17:18:10 GMT from Canada)
@22: I see your point and I have updated the Ranking page to allow people to sort by either average rating or by number of votes, whichever they feel will be more useful. Hopefully, over time, all projects will get more votes and the ratings will balance out to reasonable averages.
35 • Devuan and antiX (by cykodrone on 2017-01-23 17:46:59 GMT from Canada)
I thought we weren't allowed to veer off topic in the comments? I've been using Devuan (bare metal HDD) since the first beta, there was a glitch in the installer but I found a way around it at the time. I installed Devuan Beta2 to an SSD (got rid of the HDD install), the installer glitch was fixed. The only issue I have with it is right-clicking in the Xfce GUI is a little clumsy, like there's a lack of precision, sometimes it's sluggish, sometimes it's too responsive, like involuntarily activating the top item in right-click menu, causing an unwanted action and the menu to disappear. This GUI problem could be due to my choice of window manager and/or theme(s), not completely sure, I would have to experiment more. Other than that, I find it fairly stable and usable, I've customized my Devuan install to the mammary glands with very few problems, if any at all.
You can't compare antiX and Devuan, I'm not knocking antiX, it's a great and honourable distro, but it's all over the road, by that I mean a smorgasbord of repo choices (different package levels and 3rd party maintained sources). I'm guessing they avoid the major DEs (even Xfce) because the lesser known and used DEs are easier to sterilize and keep free of systemd, and an indication of how deep systemd's roots are in the two major cabal DEs (Gnome and KDE). At least Devuan's default thoroughly maintained and supported DE is Xfce, which seems to be the last normal survivor on the gtk island, I've noticed MATE is taking a beating from the Gnome 3/systemd cabal, it's having an identity crisis, half of the apps are opening with a Gnome 3 look in an old gtk2 interface, a GUI dog's breakfast (aside from the bugs caused by trying to merge the two). Both distros want to be systemd free, but one wants to be cool and cutting edge (which it is), the other wants to be a mirror image of a stable, boring and bland Debian (but without the bloated init that wants to be a kernel). You're comparing a floor model economy car to amphibious flying machine.
Devuan can upgrade safely from Debian Wheezy, creating that ability was no small feat, this was one of it's major intended features. Yet another huge difference between Devuan and antiX.
When all the smoke clears, it depends on what the end user needs and wants, not what doesn't suit your needs or excite your tastes. FYI, Devuan does have backports (that's where I found Kodi for Devuan), for those who can't resist messing around and living a little dangerously.
I am going to give antiX a thorough run for it's money soon (on the other SSD), I'm getting fed up the breakage in a gtk based PCLOS install.
I dumped Debian near the end of Wheezy's normal support cycle when they announced their lack of init choice in Jessie (this is why I left proprietary operating systems, I don't like being forced or told what to use or run). Devuan is the closest replacement for Jessie out there, antiX is more like a systemd free Siduction.
36 • Remote Use, Installers, & Kernels (by M.Z. on 2017-01-23 19:09:20 GMT from United States)
For using apps remotely I've used Team Viewer a fair amount, though only to use proprietary Windows apps on Linux. It's been very useful, though I would like a bit higher resolution. I may try some of the other methods discussed here in DW, but once you get Team Viewer going it's very easy to go to any OS you want remotely.
Funny, my main installer issues recently have been related to bugs in the ubiquity series of installers. I would like to have a better alternative, especially one that bridges many distros like the Calamares installer is trying to do.
You seem to be complaining about a superseded kernel not showing up in the DW package tracking list. Why continue to list kernel 4.9.4 after 4.95 is already out? I've had 4.9.5 installed on my PCLinuxOS desktop for days & it came straight from the official PCLOS repos.
Don't get my wrong, there are probably more than a few users of Ubuntu family distros interested in what you're talking about; however, the DW list tracking packages if for official upstream packages. If they start trying to track downstream stuff the people saying 'me too' will quickly create a massive logjam of thousands of things to track. After all many big distros have 10,000+ packages. It's far easier & simpler to track the upstream projects & it's distro agnostic, is a good for all users regardless of the popular distro of the moment.
37 • Mini-reviews and ratings (by Vukota on 2017-01-23 19:52:46 GMT from Montenegro)
Great addition to the DW (form for mini reviews and ratings). I think people will love it. I would also suggest to add voting for the reviews, so that good reviews can have better visibility. Also, few additional fields might be a good thing to have like "What was the hardware/environment you used for testing?", "Were you able to install the distro?", "Problems unresolved?", "Pros?", "Cons?", "How do you rate your technical knowledg?", "What was the intention of the install/usage of the distro/system?", "Whom would you suggest to try this distribution?". Also good thing may be to provide an optional field for e-mail with a way for people to be able to correct and/or add update to their review.
About GoboLinux, I think the guys were trying to reinvent the wheels. Yes, directories in Linux are confusing, but deviating from the "standards" is not always good. No matter what you pick for the name, it will be "strange" for someone. Not everyone is speaking English, but they have to "know" what those things are. It would be better spent effort to split directories where the apps, libraries and their different version are installed, than to try to reinvent different names for something that already just works. Its enough that different distros place same configuration files in different places and name them differently (for not so good reasons), but moving files around for even less good reasons gets my down vote.
38 • Rankings... (by Vukota on 2017-01-23 20:11:24 GMT from Montenegro)
I forgot to add. I agree with other comment(s) that number of reviews (and length of them) should be included somehow in rankings. One review with vote of 10 vs. 10 reviews with more detailed reviews and average vote of 9 to me is in reality like comparing 6 with 10. Maybe voting should go 1-5 and score from 1-10 to be calculated based on the number of reviews and scores (votes) given, so that 1 five can not be higher than 10 fours, but 1 five may be equal or higher than 10 threes.
39 • HandyLinux (by mikef90000 on 2017-01-23 23:49:48 GMT from United States)
I've revisited using HandyLinux several times because it offered a simple UI suitable for the less computer literate or for cases like kiosks. Unfortunately the lack of good English documentation kept me from customizing the UI more.
Request to HandyLinux devs - please consider packaging the UI source separately where it can be preserved and possibly improved for us non-French speakers.
40 • mini-reviews: any link? (by Hoos on 2017-01-24 04:38:46 GMT from Singapore)
Is there a link on the Home page to the "visitors' mini-reviews" landing page?
41 • mini-reviews (by bigsky on 2017-01-24 04:54:45 GMT from Canada)
@40 That's also what I was wondering but my best guess is that there are none at the moment ? Time will tell. Anyhow this was a good read this week. Keep your stick on the ice.
42 • Remote apps (by argent on 2017-01-24 06:02:19 GMT from United States)
Don't remotely use anything to connect to my main PC's, maybe in the future will have a need but not ATM.
Comment about Devuan, personally found it to work perfectly and better than it's parent Debian. Have some apps like Kodi that works with Devuan ascii/ceres but not with Debian testing or sid!
Maybe it is the machine and not the the distribution. Get better GTK rendering and fonts are sharper and clearer, perhaps being more black in appearance is the reason. Have nothing but a great experience with Devuan and happy about it's existence and the work they are doing with a systemd-less image. Will be patient with the idea "that it will be ready when it's ready"!
Like antiX, but something with the distribution causes it not to play well with other drives on the eight drive PC, scrambles the UUID and become not accessible. Works fine by it's self, but as soon everything is reconnected then it's nothing but havoc.
43 • PcLinux abandoning Grub Legacy (by GreginNC on 2017-01-24 12:40:58 GMT from United States)
Sad to hear PcLinuxOS is doing away with grub legacy as that was one of the main things I liked about it. I've always despised Grub2 and really didn't care for Lilo. Grub legacy was straight forward to use and always reliable, it's sad to see what is likely the last distro still using it by default abandoning it. What's next the inclusion of Systemd?
44 • Reviews link (by Jesse on 2017-01-24 12:56:33 GMT from Canada)
@40: No, but there are links to the visitor reviews and rankings on our Sitemap page. There are links on every distribution's page to their ratings/reviews page, in the Popularity section.
45 • @43 (by a on 2017-01-24 17:06:15 GMT from France)
I also don’t like the complexity of grub2. I recommend syslinux: it’s simple and easy.
46 • PCLinuxOS (by M.Z. on 2017-01-24 17:43:32 GMT from United States)
One big difference in the Grub policy vs the systemd policy is that Grub 2 has been in there as an option for a good long time. Given that I think the chances of Systemd being the only option in PCLOS is basically 0, though I don't find much to dislike about Systemd in Mageia so I don't really care. I'd also note the Grub customizer is in there as well & I've been using the two for some time in PCLinuxOS; however, I admit I don't think it is quite as easy & automated as I'd like.
47 • File system names/paths (GOBO) (by Jordan on 2017-01-24 17:45:07 GMT from United States)
When I first looked at Zorin, I expected to see something we see described in the GOBO review; more intuitive (read, "Windows-like") file names/hierarchies.
Not the case with Zorin, but we do see it now (as a work in progress I presume) with GOBO. I do like the idea, but by now I've come to understand the unix/linux way.. so.. it'll be there as a choice for newer users I suppose.
48 • @35 Deuvan & AntiX (by Martin on 2017-01-24 19:05:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for your comments, I found that an interesting review of Deuvan. I have tried it in the past, but was waiting for a stable release to come out, it sounds as though you find the current release to be stable. I must try it again.
AntiX is a thoroughly reliable and stable distro with a very helpful and enthusiastic following, I have used it for many years now.
49 • Dedoimedo interview (by Dr David on 2017-01-25 03:43:49 GMT from United States)
Wait, on the airspeed of an unladen swallow. Are you referring to a European swallow or ... ;-)
Keep up the good work Distrowatch, I love it !!!
50 • Remote Desktop access and remote desktop use (by Martin on 2017-01-25 23:13:23 GMT from United States)
One BIG oversight that was solved by Microsoft since 1995. Yes, that is 2 decades ago and to this day, NO LINUX SOLUTION has surfaced.
HOW do you get sound to accompany and video you start in your remote desktop session???
How do you get your remote desktop server to see the USB or files you have on your local machine (client) so that the remote server app can access and use?
How to you get your remote desktop server to print thru your client session to your local printer?
Can your session have both encryption AND compression to significant impact a positive performance session?
XRDP was a project started some time ago that started with this intent. BUT NOONE step forward to help .... even when he offered money.
No, to me, Remote Desktop in Open Source is still DEAD.
51 • Remote Desktop access and remote desktop use (by Martin on 2017-01-25 23:22:29 GMT from United States)
My comment merely intends to suggest that an Remote Desktop Server, today, doesn't have an great performing multimedia solution for users. Neither on a local LAN or the WAN.
If you merely want a Xdesktop without multimedia features, this was solved years ago in open source. But, if you want a true experience that matches what you get at an Linux console running X desktops, then Remote Multimedia X Desktops does not exist, IMHO.
52 • Yup, another month of chasing my "Tails!" (by tom joad on 2017-01-25 23:26:20 GMT from Netherlands)
First I want to say I like Tails...I do. And I like to use it and I do on a daily basis.
But every month or so I seems chase my tail to get the new rev up and running only to have to repeat the process again in short order. The constant installing from scratch following frequently changing instructions and process seems little more than busy work. And I guess entertainment for the former Microsoft software engineers who put it together.
Maybe it only seems like a 'microsoft' product.
Presently I am stuck at the restore or create image apparent 'loop' using the Gnome disk manager. I have been restoring and creating for the better part of the afternoon while not restoring or creating much of anything usable to access the internet.
Of late I am given to using a sand box hardened Tor to access the internet. I am using it now to opine now. And tor is apparently working on a sandboxed version of their product too. "Come on, guys, hurry but a lot of us are waiting for a rational more protected access to the internet."
While I am waiting for another restore, create task to finish I was thinking about the folks who live in "enemy" Territory who need a usable, intuitive and protected way to access the internet. It must be scary to government facilities to access the internet on the sneak. And millions have to do it on the sneak too or suffer dearly. For me to chase my tail with this product nothing much awful will happen to me. But in 'enemy' Territory...well, you get the picture.
I wonder if the former Microsoft software engineers have ever reflected on the real world consequence of not having their product configured or install correctly? I wonder if they lay awake reflected on the utter tediousness of their software.
Nah, I truly doubt it. They sleep well I am sure, they are not in enemy terrority after all.
Oh, the latest restore, create has finished. Perhaps this time it may work...may indeed. I've been 35 mintues in the process. Everything with tails takes hours too. That is not a bug, it is feature I am sure.
53 • x2go is great but no 3D (by Scott Dowdle on 2017-01-26 00:01:02 GMT from United States)
If you want a terminal-services type remoting protocol (single user, or multi-user each with their own independent desktop), then x2go is for you. There is also a desktop-sharing package for x2go if you need it.
x2go connects over ssh and provides a really fast (especially compared to VNC) environment. It also does sound, filesharing, and printing if configured properly. Over a fast LAN, video playback works fairly well.
One thing x2go doesn't do is 3D stuff... so no desktop environments that require 3D (GNOME3, Unity, etc). Works great with XFCE, MATE, etc.
x2go is in the standard Fedora repos, in EPEL for RHEL/CentOS. For Debian and Ubuntu, the x2go-client is stock, but you have to get x2go-server from a third-party repo. Instructions on the x2go site.
54 • Re; My Tails travails... (by tom joad on 2017-01-26 03:34:54 GMT from France)
I never got the Gnome disk manager to do the install as the Tails documentation said that it would. It looked as though it did do what it was supposed to do however. More illusion.
So I had to fall back to the old school way. I burned the ISO to a DVD and went on from there. That worked as it does. I have Tails installed on a USB drive. I am happy to use something that will keep some of the internet dark forces at bay.
Six weeks from now there will a few tweaks here and there in Tails. Me, I will be back in the weeds again attempting to get another rev up and running.
I have some hope that the Torproject will have their 'sandboxed' tor browser up and running soon.
Lastly, from my experience I think there is a real world need for a user friendly and more secure distro like Tails. I really do. I used LPS, now TENS, for a time but I have a new computer. This computer is EFI and TENS is not so that is a no go. At least I don't want to putz with it to see if it will go. No time. Off my soap box. Thanks for enduring my mini-rant.
55 • @20, 25 etc â€¢ Dedoimedo Interview (by Greg Zeng on 2017-01-26 04:08:45 GMT from Australia)
Like most Dw readers, spead-reading meant that we missed, above: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/interview-distrowatch.html
Seems my suspicions were correct. A self-taught, isolated, youngish geek, devoid of senior corporate experiences, atm. Photo was taken over ten years ago. JS has English-as-a-Second-Language (ESL)? I used to be a high school teacher (STEM), 1971, Australia.
Seems to me that there is no true Linux-guru on the planet. Researchers are researching (more & more about less & less: PhD); "teachers" (including "writers" are overwhelmed by the knowledge explosions and the heavy, heavy politics. End-users & codes are instantaneous fanboys. Retired senior executives like myself are surprised about the popularity of Windows, & failures of the Unix-derivatives (Apple, Androids, Lunux's & BSD's).
"Do you think Linux is ready for mass consumption?
JS: Yes, I definitely do."
Seniors like myself know this to be false. Linux ergonomics (hence market-ability) is extremely poor. Linux seniors know this: no universal package containers, no universal installer that just "works", no running-kernel-update (yet), poor updating procedures, limited range of applications, no easy roll-back process, extremely inconsistent ways on closing the operating system.
"The" computer operating system which might be Windows-10", with severe reservations, atm. Terrible updates, crazy roll-back processes, extremely demanding on all computer resources (CPU, GPU, memories, storage, multiple redundancies, page-files, etc).
Linux is so promising, that Microsoft, etc (but not Apple) are contributing to the Linux projects, with direct funds, staff & otherways. BSD-based Unix's are trying to unseat Linux's flaws, but atm cannot match the coder numbers of the other systems (Ms, Apple, Linux).
All operating systems need an open-source coding, marketing approach imho. So open & easy, that even the Putin plutocracy can help the billionaire oligarchs to dominate this planet, with the assistance of our Australian lad, Wikileaks. Who will be the Putin of the computer world? Microsoft, Google or Apple to conquering the iSheep?
56 • @55 (by gee7 on 2017-01-26 11:41:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
I do not understand your post, Greg, about speed-reading and missing some factor unknown. I read the interview on Dedoimedo slowly before I read this week's Distrowatch and I found Jesse's answers to be amusing, honest and revealing of his integrity. Nor do I agree with your criticism: to be "devoid of senior corporate experiences" is not a flaw for a person who works as a journalist and is involved in practical Linux coding problems and bug repair, as other valuable experiences fill the time, though, for example, "to be devoid of integrity and an eagerness to learn new skills in a fast-changing world" would be. Any man or woman who has had to earn a living using practical skills and who becomes self-employed develops a self-reliance and an understanding of the world that can be considered superior to the mind-set of someone who knows only the corporate world.
Yes, Linux is ready for mass consumption - with 2% of the known market it is already used by a sector of the mass market, and that sector is growing annually. Statistics from mainland China are not included in the percentage breakdown as they are not available, though over the last decade I have come across various statements giving out the information that the Chinese government was starting to bring their own version of Linux into local and national government departments because they did not trust Microsoft. Any information on Chinese Linux statistics would throw some light on the matter, if anyone can refer a source ...
57 • @55 lots of BS (by curious on 2017-01-26 11:51:26 GMT from Germany)
Linux IS ready for mass consumption.
The main reason people use an operating system (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android or whatever) is because it comes ready-installed on their machine. Only very few people care enough to change it - and among those, Linux is probably the favorite.
But until Linux comes ready-installed on new devices, its market share, at least "on the desktop", will remain small.
Oh, and thanks for dissing the main contributor to distrowatch. As if one needs "senior corporate experience" to be a Linux-guru ...
And btw. "no universal package containers, no universal installer that just works, no running-kernel-update (yet), poor updating procedures" is true for Windows as well.
58 • @55 (by SlackCliMax on 2017-01-26 12:45:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Apple has been known to give back to the BSD community. When BSD started out in 1974 it was open software. AT&T (in their infinite wisdom) made it proprietary.
So by your logic the FreeBSD Foundation and others are small time operations. I don't think so.
59 • Regarding the interview (by Jesse on 2017-01-26 13:18:37 GMT from Canada)
>> Seems my suspicions were correct. A self-taught, isolated, youngish geek, devoid of senior corporate experiences, atm. Photo was taken over ten years ago. JS has English-as-a-Second-Language (ESL)"
If you had read the interview you might have noticed, I'm not solely self-taught. I started out self-taught in elementary school (grade school, I think they call it elsewhere), but I took computer courses in high school, college and later, when I entered the job market.
Isolated is certainly debateable, I've worked in both big, urban offices and small, rural settings. I've certainly worked in corporate settings, though not at the CIO-level if that is what you mean by senior.
Not that it matters, but the photo was not taken ten years ago, the camera that took the picture had its clock reset to an earlier date. English is my first language, French is my second.
>> "Seniors like myself know this to be false. Linux ergonomics (hence market-ability) is extremely poor. Linux seniors know this: no universal package containers, no universal installer that just "works", no running-kernel-update (yet), poor updating procedures, limited range of applications, no easy roll-back process, extremely inconsistent ways on closing the operating system."
You may feel that way, but I know several seniors who are quite happy with Linux. They find it less hassle than using other systems because Linux typically just works for them. It keeps running and updating without issue. They don't need universal installers because everything is packaged for them in the software manager. You seem to projecting your own experiences onto others, but your experiences (while valid) and computing needs are not universal.
Around 50 million people or so use Linux as a desktop operating system. That's a pretty big market, so I think Linux certainly has proven itself ready for the masses at this point.
60 • Trolls (by a on 2017-01-26 13:55:25 GMT from France)
Don’t waste your time answering trolls Jesse… I liked the interview btw and was glad to read that you also think distro maintainers shouldn’t jump at new (and broken) software.
61 • Seriously? (by Rando McGillicutty on 2017-01-26 20:45:28 GMT from United States)
On a planet of over seven billion people, fifty million is 'yuge'?! You're deluding yourself. Cheap servers, computation nodes, and embedded all make sense as a place for linux; a desktop for the masses not so much.
62 • @ Jessie on you interview (by Jake on 2017-01-26 20:47:25 GMT from France)
"For example, if you are running Windows and you don't like Windows 10, your choices are to stick with an older version (and disable the sneaky automatic upgrade process) or use Windows 10 anyway and deal with its problems."
You don't use Windows 10, and your non-Linux OS is FreeBSD. You also said, if you had a magic wand, you'd like to see distribution developers distro-hop more.
I've been using Linux distros since 2005, meaning had distro-hopped a lot. In the mean time used Windows for specific apps, and later dropped Windows 7 completely and stayed only with Linux. Found Windows 10 (I got it free with a laptop at highly discounted price).
I still have my only Linux box, and this laptop with Windows 10 and few Linux on dual boot in it. Strangely, this Windows 10 is not giving any problems, not even trying to update without my allowing it.
Question; how can you or anyone can tell how bad Windows 10 without using it? Shouldn't we also "hop" a little to see how the other side doing?
63 • Trying the other side (by Jesse on 2017-01-26 21:09:02 GMT from Canada)
@62: "You don't use Windows 10, and your non-Linux OS is FreeBSD...how can you or anyone can tell how bad Windows 10 without using it?"
First of all, I didn't comment on the quality of Windows 10. I was talking about people who want to upgrade Windows, but also don't like some of the features in the new version. There are lots of people who like some aspects of Win10 and not others. I didn't say I thought Win10 was good or bad.
Second, while I do not run Windows at home, I do have to support it for clients. To say I haven't used Windows 10 would be inaccurate. Not only have I used it, I've had to install it, fix it and recover broken systems that were running it. I'm in a pretty good position to say what I do or don't like about the operating system.
64 • Trolls & Linux Volume (by M.Z. on 2017-01-26 22:21:43 GMT from United States)
If you're referring to #55 as a troll, I'd say that while his posts rarely seem all that great to me he posts here often & he does seem genuine. I've seen plenty of trolls, good (as in you want me to argue with a dancing what on youtube?), as well as lots of bad & misinformed stuff meant to start an argument. The last few times someone called troll here on DW I think it was an over reaction. Let's try not to bring out the 'T' word unless it is really warranted.
I find it hard to believe that tens of millions of any group of people could be considered a small number. As a bit of a car buff I can tell you that last I heard the top three car manufactures were all in the ballpark of 10 million sales a year. In addition Wikipedia lists less than 30 countries that exceed that 50 Million user estimate, while most of the other 196 on the list have far less. In fact if you put all Linux users from the above estimate into their own country they would rank as right between South Korea (#27) & Columbia (#28).
Anyway, I find the whole notion of 50 million people being a tiny number fairly laughable. It may not be the biggest number, but it is fairly respectable. Also you're treading far closer to what #60 was talking about than #55 was.
65 • Chrome (by V2 on 2017-01-27 03:54:18 GMT from United States)
Anyone else use Chrome Remote Desktop? Seems to work without many issues so far, even through corporate fire walls. Can even control Windows boxes. All you need is the Chrome or Chromium browser and the app from the store. One issue is that on Linux it starts a new session so it does not seem to let you control an already running session.
66 • Running desktop applications remotely (by far2fish on 2017-01-27 10:24:38 GMT from Europe)
I voted "I use X11 forwarding", which is my preferred method.
In hindsight I probably should have voted "I use another method", because often I find X forwarding blocked by sshd_config or network complexity.
So while X11 forwarding is my preferred option, I often find that I have to explicitly set the DISPLAY variable to point back to my client.
There is also the odd occasions where I connect to a server through VNC, which is only when I have to run a long running graphical installer, and do not want to transmit screen refreshes over the network.
I also enjoyed reading the Dedoimedo interview, and while I skipped through some parts of it, it was really nice to get some context on Jesse. And it makes me cherish even more the time and effort he puts into keeping this site running.
67 • linux on the desktop (by Tim Dowd on 2017-01-27 14:27:09 GMT from United States)
I'm with @57 on this discussion. Linux isn't on many desktops because it isn't the default. For most, a computer is a tool that does a specific task for them, and they're not going to change until you give them a reason.
For what it's worth, I wait until I have family or friends complaining about their not-that-old computer being entirely nonfunctional and then I ask if they'd mind if I installed Linux on it for them. They're usually blown away by how much better the computer works.
That most people haven't switched for Linux is a different issue than whether "Linux is ready on the desktop." It absolutely is ready. The only major issue I have at this point is that Apple won't release drivers to make my iPhone work with Linux... and my hope is that someday Ubuntu phone will make that a non-issue for me.
Also, Jesse, thank you for all your work. You've immensely helped me over the years and I don't like seeing people criticize you
68 • Greg Zeng (by Jordan on 2017-01-27 14:40:18 GMT from United States)
You position yourself here, via your posts, as the "final word" in various aspects of linux discussion, even to the point of accusing others of being "trolls" if they do not agree with you and/or of they present a view of things as they see it as opposed to your stated views. You even go so far as to accuse disagreement as likely because someone didn't read things thoroughly or slowly enough, putting them on the defensive.
There is a lot to be learned here at DW. You can even learn here, believe it or not.
69 • Gobo (by Somewhat Reticent on 2017-01-28 12:58:29 GMT from United States)
Like NixOS or ZeroInstall, with dependency-checking easier for human?
70 • Distrowatch & Linux (by Bill on 2017-01-28 23:59:01 GMT from Canada)
There is so much I like about Linux. The reason I like it over Windows is the stability it has given me for the past several years. So reliable and fast and able to provide me with all of the applications I need for my computing needs. I am not knocking Windows as it has given me a start in computing that has proven to be helpful in moving to Linux.
Thank you Jessie for your fine web site. It is my favourite place to travel to for information and insight to making computing a truly satisfactory endeavour.
71 • @70 Distrowatch & Linux (by mandog on 2017-01-29 15:40:26 GMT from Peru)
I think that goes for a lot of readers las well
Its a shams the last couple of weeks have been slightly marred with name calling no need to get personal its only a comments page after all.
72 • DW & Linux (by zephyr on 2017-01-29 22:15:16 GMT from United States)
DW has a lot to offer and personally enjoy the comments section, respect everyone's comments when pertaining to distributions or applications. Questions and Answers is my first stop each new week and have learned a great deal.
Tolerance of others, no one is is a Linux guru in my opinion, Linux is ever changing and even the most seasoned has to get caught up occasionally. Ones opinion is exactly that but don't think it is worth the argument if we have to offend one and another. DW is all about information for me, and many others who would like to share knowledge or helpful hints.
Many distributions have forums where the trolling is common place, avoid them and don't use their distributions either. Don't expect anyone or everyone to agree with any statement or finding I may post regarding a specific application or distribution. Appearance and functional capabilities is usually met with different skill level and knowledge. Linux simply has something for everyone.
Let's please keep DW and it's contents professional, no doubt a lot of hard work goes into this site weekly and for one appreciate it and all the folks who comment here in this section.
Number of Comments: 72
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