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1 • GUI (by Rev_Don on 2016-11-21 01:14:42 GMT from United States) |
I want a GUI that is appropriate to the hardware. How difficult is that for developers to understand.
2 • Rolling Distributions (by Marc Magi on 2016-11-21 02:05:56 GMT from Belize)
"...While Arch caused me headaches during the initial installation and openSUSE flooded my computer with updates during the past month, Sabayon was pleasantly dull. Sabayon was fairly easy to get up and running, offered a medium amount of updates and offered no surprises. Sabayon did not present any amazing features, it consistently lagged a bit behind the other Linux distributions in terms of package versions and it did not cause me any problems..."
What's the PURPOSE of a Rolling Distribution? If you want pure stability then stay with a tradition distro that gets a 6 -12 month release. Sabayon seems to want the TITLE of Rolling Distro but yet not be bleeding edge or close to it. Man up! Swing for the fences or stay as a distro on a release cycle.
3 • That's not the point (by bigsky on 2016-11-21 02:48:57 GMT from Canada)
..........HUH....... ? Its always an experiment . Sometimes incremental some times not.
4 • OpenIndiana (by Michael Kruger on 2016-11-21 03:05:13 GMT from United States)
"TrueOS is the only project of the four to use ZFS as the default file system. ZFS, like openSUSE's Btrfs, allows us to create snapshots of our operating system which we can revert to if there is a problem."
The one to watch is OpenIndiana (formerly OpenSolaris) which is currently experience a renaissance. It also provides ZFS as the default operating system, complete with automated boot environment snapshots, which are created by the package manager whenever performing a 'pkg update'. Not only that, with the newly ported FreeBSD boot loader, you can now install the root pool to a mirror or raidz.
5 • Ubuntu (by bison on 2016-11-21 04:02:30 GMT from United States)
Currently a unified UI at 11% in the poll, while different UIs is at 75%. Ubuntu is of course free to do what they want; it's their time, money, etc. But I wonder where they'd be today if they hadn't run down that rabbit hole.
6 • @2 - rolling distros (by Hoos on 2016-11-21 04:39:07 GMT from Singapore)
Rolling is not always extreme bleeding edge.
It just means the whole distro, every single package, is moving along all the time so you never ever need to reinstall or take special steps - which may or may not cause problems - to upgrade it to the next fixed release every 6 to 12 months.
The SPEED at which a particular rolling distro moves is different. Arch is bleeding edge. Manjaro Stable is maybe 2-3 weeks behind Arch. PCLinuxOS is fairly sedate in pace, but at any point in time it is still likely to have newer packages than a fixed release distro except possibly when a fixed release distro is still shiny new (and even then, I suspect it will be much newer than a newly-released Debian Stable). Sabayon is somewhere in between Arch and PCLinuxOS. I have used all of them.
What is the PURPOSE of a rolling release? You don't have to reinstall, ever. And if the packages are always much fresher than a fixed release distro, some people may be perfectly ok with the fact that their rolling distro of choice is a few weeks behind the bleeding edge.
7 • Endless OS (by Tran Older on 2016-11-21 05:03:47 GMT from Vietnam)
Endless OS reminds me of Lindows OS 4.5 - both have Debian background, both are Microsoft Office compatible and both have online store for purchasing applications and codecs. It didn't work in the past, doubtfully it will work in the future.
8 • Interfaces (by mcellius on 2016-11-21 05:17:37 GMT from United States)
I'm an Ubuntu user and I love it. I use and like Unity - yes, I'm the one - but I really don't care a bit if my phone and desktop have the same interface. I have always been up to handling different interfaces.
On the other hand, I really don't mind if Ubuntu experiments with convergence and tries to develop a unified interface. Good things have come from the effort, and more probably will.
So I checked "other" in the poll. Frankly, I don't care. I've tried all the interfaces and like Unity best, and in the future I'm sure to try new developments, too, whether or not they can also be used on my phone.
9 • multiple alike Interfaces (by Thom on 2016-11-21 05:37:56 GMT from Sweden)
I feel one obvious option is missing from the survey.
The idea that you can shoehorn a desktop interface into a phone format is about as practical as ballooning a phone interface up to a desktop format. Neither works, as have been convincingly demonstrated. What would be the obvious solution is a set of agreed-upon standards, shepherded by a advisory group, that can bring together a common theme with familiar elements that ensures commonality but respects the different form factors and user needs.
I guess the short answer would be a both/and rather than a both, neither, or either.
10 • Inerfaces (by argent on 2016-11-21 06:48:01 GMT from United States)
Personally refuse to use Ubuntu anything simply because it does not merit my trust. Happy with Android as being the lesser of two evils.
Any type of unified interface would suggest a compromise of what I enjoy with my desktop, personnally see no contender interface that would suffice. Unity to me is not an option as it would not for many.
Maybe a new approach could be considered but not going to get my attention with what I'm seeing in the Linux world, don't use Android on my desktop but content on my iphone.
Too much attention toward Ubuntu, think they need to polish and make it a lot better with stability as a desktop first. Think Ubuntu is getting over it's head with mobile devices, like I said earlier it is a trust issue.
11 • opensuse (by Bob on 2016-11-21 07:41:10 GMT from Germany)
opensuse was and still is the most buggy linux distro that i have ever tested!
1-usb install not possible...it hangs or need some hacks to work!
2-login to normal user hangs after changing the root password!!
3-X doesn't start after update...
4-default firewall interface doesn't work. removing this and install firewalld is a mess with yast modules...
5-yast is not complete and some modules doesn't work
6-software update takes too long...zypper problem with dns!? curl problem!?
7-opensuse has still ugly fonts..
8-some devices wont work despite the firmware was installed...intel wireless 8260 is an example...
you can not solve this problems on forums despite they try to help and are polite!
12 • Graphical user interfaces... (by Vukota on 2016-11-21 08:33:45 GMT from Montenegro)
I voted other, because there are no two types of devices, but three. I have mobile devices, pure desktop devices, and hybrid "desktops" (two in ones) that I use sometimes as a desktop, sometimes as a tablet, sometimes as a hybrid (desktop with extensive touch and zoom in/out capabilities or with the pen). Unfortunately, where I really see support lacking in Linux is this hybrid use case and the one I do need most on those devices. These devices are usually more expensive than "pure" desktops (and very cool) but unfortunately only usable UI alternative on them is to use Windows. I don't really have much of the use case for pure "mobile" graphical user interface on Linux , but I can see where it can be applicable (Raspberry Pi hybrids and pure Linux tablets/phones that can run full desktop apps).
13 • OpenSuSE Leap 42.2 - great! (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2016-11-21 09:17:41 GMT from Austria)
This edition may really been marked a Hail Mary!
In the past I've installed 42.1 as well as Tumbleweed again and again for I always appreciated that wonderfully sophisticated instrument called YaST which in it's perfection as an exceedingly powerful all-purpose graphical management tool has kept singular and leading all through the evolution of Linux distros up to these days. However, within those numerous trials I'd always run into the same troubles with Plasma stability especially when operated over two or three monitors, and as the worst issue 42.1 made my main flatscreen's backlight fail severely and repeatedly. In fact, with the release of 42.2 that's all eradicated! Even the formerly vast cycles of startup and shutdown procedures are forgotten.
The only minor issue rested therein is that the software based USB2 connection to my Eaton UPS as set up by systemd-sysvinstall will not be reestablished after every startup, so from time to time I must call systemctl restart for it from a root terminal. Be as is, that's a snap.
For conclusion, I dare say I strongly recommend 42.2 to all guys who're looking for a mature and well engineered Linux OS. Give it a trie!
Well, it needs a pretty bit of experience to get the system balanced with Packman or VideoLAN repos for MM purposes, but as soon you have learned about all the tweaking possibilities of YaST you will certainly be overcome!
Be the Ancients with all of you, Geri
14 • @5 Poll (by kc1di on 2016-11-21 10:49:04 GMT from United States)
I Agree With # 5 how far would the desktop have come if Ubuntu had not run down the convergence path.
I favor separate flavors for each job. They are not the same beast and I'd rather have something separately that works well on each. I don't need my phone to be the same as my desktop just that they will sync files , photos etc.
As for the rolling releases they all break from time to time. PCLinuxOS would be my choice but that wasn't part of the trial. PCLinxOS does a good job of balancing cutting edge and stability. In any event good issue of DW weekly
15 • @5 Poll (by kc1di on 2016-11-21 10:50:22 GMT from United States)
I Agree With # 5 how far would the desktop have come if Ubuntu had not run down the convergence path.
I favor separate flavors for each job. They are not the same beast and I'd rather have something separately that works well on each. I don't need my phone to be the same as my desktop just that they will sync files , photos etc.
As for the rolling releases they all break from time to time. PCLinuxOS would be my choice but that wasn't part of the trial. PCLinxOS does a good job of balancing cutting edge and stability. In any event good issue of DW weekly
16 • Opensuse (by tonny on 2016-11-21 11:57:19 GMT from Indonesia)
@11: Same with me. Opensuse is not a smooth sailing to me. There's always something missing/ problematic. And the GUI is not that responsive compared to the other like debian and arch. Debian and Arch are the least troublesome for me.
17 • desktop interfaces: a responsive website (by meanpt on 2016-11-21 12:35:42 GMT from Portugal)
Which one approaches the responsive webite UI design? Seems to be the first option, the Xdevices, with a bit more chameleonich features. Otherwise how to be effective with the touchscreen of a new laptops?
18 • Opensuse (by Simon on 2016-11-21 14:07:25 GMT from South Africa)
I am still fairly new to Linux but played around with many distros in a short space of time. Unfortunately opnesuse does not work for me whatsover as it was soo buggy on my machine that I was forced to go back to something else. I do not have the experience to manually fix multiple issues just to have a working environment. 42.2 might be different but I see no need to try if there are other great distros with newer drivers.
19 • Unified UI (by dragonmouth on 2016-11-21 14:23:22 GMT from United States)
Any 'unified UI' is by definition a compromise. Compromises try to please everyone, while pleasing nobody. I want a distinct UI for each type of device.
20 • GUI across devices (by seacat on 2016-11-21 14:40:29 GMT from Argentina)
My election is "I want separate interfaces for each device" because the devices have different nature. Even more, the same user plays different roles in different devices. For instance, in my smartphone I'm massive internet user, but in my desktop I'm developer, so in my smartphone never I use the console, but frequently in my desktop.
21 • G.U.I. Other (by Roy on 2016-11-21 16:05:58 GMT from United States)
Yeah. Surprise me. That has been my fun in distro-hopping. And recently phone-hopping and stream player-hopping well. A lot of stuff running on Android. I used to think that networking was about computers and that networking was getting other computers hooked with other computers. With the advent of HDMI I am learning that the term 'networking' has taken on a much larger 'context'.
22 • GUI Poll Question, Rolling Experiment (by cykodrone on 2016-11-21 16:08:02 GMT from Canada)
I get it that the uber nerds were thinking 'future proof' when most (oily filthy fingerprint germ culture) PC and laptop screens will be swipe soon, but they jumped the gun. It was like overnight mice and keyboard users were cast aside to the obsolete column. Short version, forcing swipe GUIs on non-swipe device users is presumptive and arrogant.
If I may add one more gripe, every time Redmond churns out a 'flat' and ugly GUI/icon set (complete with eye-mare Fisher-Price colours), FOSS lemmings jump off the cliff with them, where's their originality? I don't want my FOSS OS to like a Redmond abomination, that's part of the reason I use FOSS. Butchering existing GUIs seems to be breaking backwards compatibility. I get that bright, vibrant colours are supposed to be stimulating, but they can also cause eye strain, balance is required.
Rolling release experiment questions:
Do you use the default repos, or have you added/changed any?
Do you install a boat-load of third party apps from the distros' default repos and periodically try them to see if any updates affect them?
Do you do any customizing of any kind, or do you keep the install(s) 100% 'stock'?
Do you leave the GUI(s) their default themes or do you change them at all?
Why I'm asking is because if you don't keep the 'test bed' 100% 'sterile', there's kind of no point, updates and apps from default repos shouldn't break anything, just saying.
23 • @14 FUD @22 answers (by linuxista on 2016-11-21 16:17:38 GMT from United States)
@14 said, "As for the rolling releases they all break from time to time." Sorry, simply FUD. I'm just a normal user, not an IT greybeard, and my primary OS on my old laptop was an Arch install that kept going for 6 years. If you want something with a greater chance of really breaking, use a release upgrade distro and do release upgrades instead of clean installs.
@22 RR questions (pertaining to Arch):
*Use AUR without significant problems. Generally easy and functional to install and update.
*Use anything and everything. No problems.
*Don't understand what you mean by "customize."
*I use third party themes and icons without any issues.
24 • @23 Customizing (by cykodrone on 2016-11-21 16:37:13 GMT from Canada)
Anything, anything at all, something as simple as changing a line in a config file for example. Since you are using Arch, that's a moot point, lol. :D
I was referring to Jesse's experiment, and keeping the testbed installs 'sterile'.
All three distros on my machine have been customized to some degree, but I'm not a noob, so I can get away with it. My questions were with noobs in mind, trying and using Linux as a replacement for overpriced and snoopy proprietary operating systems.
25 • Security_hole_in_KDE_neon_packages,_and_Maui_2 (by k on 2016-11-21 16:39:44 GMT from Romania)
Might the Maui 2 build released before discovery of security hole
in packages archive of KDE neon it is based on have been compromised?
I downloaded and verified -- md5 and sha256 -- Maui 2 ISO from
sourceforge, twice, then made 2 different bootable USBs, first
with unetbootin, and second with dd command, and the 1st had
an error in 1 file, the second in 2 files.
That has not happened before with many such trials of other
Does anyone know where the signature and signing key files for
Maui 2 are?
Thank you very much in advance for any help.
26 • Endless OS (by Brian on 2016-11-21 17:57:35 GMT from United States)
First off, Endless OS uses flatpak for its app management. If you want to install anything, you can add the dependencies (such as Gnome) and then install whatever flatpak you are looking for.
Second, Endless OS is primarily intended for countries were internet access is limited or unreliable. Therefore the Full version, which offers 100+ apps that are fully useful offline makes more sense. Since I have a stable connection, I did the basic and added the apps that I want.
Third, this is a education-centric distribution. It is here to help kids learn. One look in the App center tells the story. There are some very unique apps and some applications of common web interfaces for other apps that set this distribution apart.
I am in no way a fanboy of Endless OS, but my 9 year old absolutely loves if for her homework and she was using Edubuntu prior. She says Endless is better because she can't break it.
27 • <3 OpenSUSE 42.2 (by xChris on 2016-11-21 19:02:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
a bit more polished from 42.1, also KDE really rocks than the older version, I had to use Gnome because of some bugs of KDE (on 42.1) , I am now back to KDE, minor issues like gfx corruption on some tooltips (on Xrender now instead openGL, seems the built-in GPU (A6-7400K) is partially supported...) I like Tumbleweed (rolling) but having an SSD , rolling releases is overkill for it.
28 • @5 (by Jeff on 2016-11-21 19:04:12 GMT from United States)
Did they give up on bug #1?
To beat another OS don't you need to be more popular than it?
Wouldn't that usually mean paying attention to what the users that you are trying to attract want?
Software devs so often seem to act like artists, they make what they want and don't care that no one likes it.
But if success is measured by how many users you have then wouldn't an approach like a business where you supply what the 'customer' wants be more likely to work?
29 • Endless OS @ Jessie (by Lennie on 2016-11-21 19:16:44 GMT from Canada)
>People running Windows can plug their USB drive into their Windows computer and install Endless alongside Windows. The documentation mentions a third option where we can wipe our computer's hard drive and install Endless. The documentation seems to imply this option should be available from the distribution's boot menu, but it was not visible to me. <
Last week, I mentioned this. I tried to install it alongside other Linux distros, in my Linux only laptop. I'm not interested in installing it as my solo Linux distro, wiping out my laptop. That's not the way we use our Linux boxes. We use many Limux distros happily living alongside.
It installed alongside Windows from Windows, in an old Windows laptop, where I didn't care if it killed Windows, without a problem. It favours Windows for dual booting. It doesn't favour Linux.
30 • @26 Brian (by Lennie on 2016-11-21 19:55:33 GMT from Canada)
I understand that this Endless OS is good for kids, but that is not what I want know. Can you tell us, how you installed it alongside another Linux OS? Do you know, (or feel) why the devs won't release an iso? If they do, won't we simply fork it?
31 • @30 Lennie (by Brian on 2016-11-21 21:01:56 GMT from United States)
From what I have read on their development track, they are working on an ISO format now. I would expect it to come out very shortly.
In terms of installing it alongside Linux: If you install a distribution afterwards, you will lose the boot option for Endless. I am unsure what type of boot manager they have, but GRUB2 will not pick it up by default. I have tried repairing GRUB to no avail. I am considering setting aside an area of the hard drive from within linux using something like GParted and then running the installer for Endless pointed to that path.
I have been very pleased that they use OSTree for their system files and Flatpak for packages. It gives piece of mind to see someone adopting both at this stage in the development.
I hope that helps.
32 • GUI (by Modern Software on 2016-11-21 21:06:12 GMT from United States)
I personally believe that the upcoming MXLDE built into Modern X is the best for all, but I'm the only one who has seen it, so...
33 • ReactOS (by PMcCartney on 2016-11-21 21:08:59 GMT from United States)
Earlier last week, ReactOS announced its latest 'Alpha' release; 0.4.3.
I decided to give it a spin, so I managed to successfully install it in a VM. Surprisingly, it has a look and feel that is very similar to Windows XP. However, that's pretty much where the similarity ends.
ReactOS is NOT another Linux distribution trying to emulate Windows by running WINE. Instead, the developers of ReactOS have written everything from the ground up. The installation is quick and minimal. And, the amount of system resources it uses is also minimal.
Applications are installed through a GUI 'Applications Manager'. The Applications Manager offers a fairly complete list of useful, open source applications that are available to install. However, I ran into problems when I tried to install LibreOffice. It complained that it couldn't find the address to download the package. And you cannot simply go to the LibreOffice website and download the version for windows and expect it to install. It just doesn't work that way. In other words, you cannot download any Windows software application and expect it to install. The system will more than likely crash, if you try.
Overall, it appears to be a good effort in the right direction for getting a non-commercial version of a Windows-like environment. It just needs more time for refinement. Kudos to the developers, and their ongoing efforts.
34 • @11 and @16 (by matteo on 2016-11-21 21:32:40 GMT from Italy)
Taht was my experience too with the standard desktop install. Then, to test, I tried the netboot. I made a minimal install (sort of basic cmdline only) and than started poking with zipper to meet few goals in my exercise:
1- have a gui and a session starting in graphic mode (no cmd line) with xfce
2- have chrome and vlc on it
3- have all codecs and audio ok for multimedia - live in europe and don't give a f*** to free-vs-patent encumbered codecs: hey I want my mp3!
using this not-really-smooth-path from a minimalistic install lead me to a very stable and responsive system.
I'm now really impressed of how much messy is the default opensuse vs what you can achieve using it the harderst path!
35 • @31@ Brian (by Lennie on 2016-11-21 21:50:39 GMT from Canada)
Your explanation doesn't help at all. Your 1st comment (#26) said your 9 year old daughter is using it. Now, after reading your last comment, it looks like you've installed it in alongside Windows.
I know what boots it in the USB stick and also what boots it alongside Windows. I got it going in a Linux partition alongside other Linux up to a point. Then, I dropped it. I'm not going to waste time picking it to pieces to study it. I can see why the devs are not that interested on making it accessible for installation alongside other Linukses. At this moment, they have done everything possible for it to not to be installed in a Linux box. I wrote last week that I thoroughly studied it.
So, until such time, the devs would release a live iso or an installable iso, I don't consider this Endless iso as a Linux distro.
36 • Oh, c'mon! (by azuvix on 2016-11-21 21:54:36 GMT from United States)
Forgive me for getting a little blunt with this, but I'd like to find the person who first thought "hey, wouldn't it be cool if my tablet and desktop looked exactly alike!" and bludgeon them to death with said tablet.
Literally *nothing* that I use my computer for is better served by a tablet, and the last thing I need is whatever limited, glitzy GUI all the cool kids have on their mobile devices determining my workflow.
Now, if other people have different devices and needs, I'm not saying you're doing something horribly wrong. What I'm saying is that you should weigh your options and find your most efficient way of using your tech, and you'll likely be surprised at how often a more traditional GUI will get the job done. How big companies pushing for an unholy amalgam of desktop and mobile are currently succeeding, I may never know. Maybe they're catering to a new generation that knows Android and iOS far better than any other systems.
37 • @24 custom configuration (by linuxista on 2016-11-21 23:54:57 GMT from United States)
Moot point indeed. Yes, of course, there are some config files I tweak. I don't know that there's anything though that I wouldn't have to do on another distro to get things the way I want. Doesn't affect stability at all after upgrades, though.
The one thing with Arch and its derivatives is manually updating config files. That's going to be somewhat of an obstacle for noobs, but, depending on what you've got installed, it's not much of an issue. When I had an apache server local dev environment installed, there were changes to apache and php config files that had to be manually reconciled because of custom settings. With a normal home/office usage scenario, in practice it's not much of an issue. Mostly it's minor stuff like shadow, locale, mirrorlist files that don't make any difference, and which you can just auto overwrite your old config files. And sometimes I let them stack up for months without any adverse effect. I would be a noob could just ignore them completely and run without any issues for a number of years.
38 • @33: ReactOS (by Da on 2016-11-22 00:09:06 GMT from United States)
My opinion about ReactOS is that, however good it is or isn't, it is about 10 years too late. In '07 I would have been very interested in trying to make it work. Now, there are just too many other options.
39 • Opinion Poll (by denk_mal on 2016-11-22 07:46:13 GMT from Germany)
Who ever want's to see what happend in a "one fits All" environment could take a look at the website of Logitech (Mouse and Keyboard company).
Even on a 1920x1600 there is is the same (less) number of products as on a 480x320 smartphone.
40 • @33,38 ReactOS (by Thomas Mueller on 2016-11-22 08:38:54 GMT from United States)
I would like to try ReactOS, would like to try to cross-compile from source on FreeBSD but there are barriers within ReactOS, as I was told in communications on their emailing lists. A ReactOS build can not be installed directly but must be made into an ISO image and burned to installation CD. USB won't work because ReactOS will crash when trying to boot from USB, according to their website, so I can't use a USB stick either for installer or installation target, and I can't use SATA hard drive because I use GPT, which ReactOS does not support. I think @38 is right in that ReactOS is too late in the Windows version it tries to be compatible (XP) with, and that there are now much better options such as Linux, FreeBSD and Wine.
41 • "one fits All" environment (by Greg Zeng on 2016-11-22 08:44:15 GMT from Australia)
Started reading this on my Samsung Galaxy s6 phone, portrait then landscape. Now on the 12 inch tablet. Next year, a Lenovo Yoga 910, running either Linux, Windows or Android?
As a very high powered user, I demand flexibility. Highest information density possible, at times, to defaulted multiple choices of menu & icons. Android's Nova Launcher is the only desktop that has this power & flexibility. It can be simulated, partially in Windows & Linux. My smartphone has a fast cpu, GPU, memory, etc. Handling 300+ applications is easy and quick.
Linux's version is having intelli-hidden taskbar on upto four sides of the screen. This is easily done in KDE, XFCE, etc. Compiz, Docky, AWN taskbar addons also add this to all Linux distributions.
42 • user interface (by slick on 2016-11-22 11:09:31 GMT from United States)
Having interface the same on all devices would be boring and problematic, just not something I would do or want.
My Android device is not perfect, sometimes behaves like a buggy Windows install. But, it does the job.
Ubuntu simply trying to move to fast and would suggest improving on their desktop. Steering away from that altogether.
43 • One UI to bring them all and in the darkness bind them... (by Zork on 2016-11-22 12:13:46 GMT from Australia)
Finally a Poll Question that 75%+ agree on...
Trying for a unified interface across multiple devices, while a noble quest, is a task fraught with peril ( and/or bugs )...
People will use their smart-phones & tablets in a specific way to do specific tasks, People will use their laptops & desktops in a specific way to do different specific tasks...
Last thing I want on my desktop is something "Android"-like or the abomination that Win10 splatters on your screen... I am perfectly capable and happy with any of the usual Desktop Environments available in Linux...
Unless there is a quantum shift in the way we interact with the UI on our devices, I can see nothing but an "Almost there" solution coming from trying to have a common interface...
Or we could keep everything separate and optimized for how people actually use each of their devices... Just because a UI change is made to Android/iOS that works doesn't mean the same will work on a desktop/laptop and vice versa...
44 • UI/UX/Streamlining Interfaces, etc... (by observer on 2016-11-22 13:08:13 GMT from Canada)
I selected a new interface, though i don't really want nor need a new interface.
I've read comments about hardware being a deciding factor. And in some ways agree - When I need more power/options/real estate, I choose a desktop or lapttop and thus expect a 'larger' interface. Conversely, when I need something more portable/less powerful, I can opt for a tablet or smartphone with its smaller footprint. I am ok with both scenarios.
A detail I often think about and which popped up today is how even the hardware people can't agree on a standard. Case in point: QWERTY Numeric keypad vs. telephone keypad. They are reversed and using one or the other requires a different set of input motions. Sure, easily remembered/habituated, but entirely not necessary if there was one unified standard for entering this information.
A small ripple in the pond, yet a ripple, nonetheless...
45 • @38,40 ReactOS (by PMcCartney on 2016-11-22 13:30:07 GMT from United States)
Yes, I know ReactOS has been around for a number of years, however, due to my position at work, I'm testing alternate solutions to meet the needs of our company's users who are locked inside a 'Windows 7' world, where AutoCAD along with several other 3D modeling/analysis applications are key.
Unfortunately, WINE is NOT an option. Especially when the software versions are completely incompatible. It really would be great to have another (64-bit) choice besides Windows 10, after Microsoft decides to retire Win7.
IMO, Windows 10 is FAR worse than 8.1. And neither will ever be a match for Windows 7, in my book.
And just to be clear, I am a die-hard Linux fan and user. I started out with Slackware in the mid-90's, and I've recently set up one file server at work that's running Debian "Jessie". Plus, I'm in the process of adding two more servers that will be running Ubuntu to replace two ancient Windows Server 2003 servers.
46 • GUI unification/convergence not a fan (by Mark D on 2016-11-22 14:47:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've been a happy Ubuntu/Unity user since it arrived (although I was quite happy with the Gnome 2 interface actually).
However, if Unity 8 asks me to "swipe" or gets me to performs 2 clicks to get something done when previously 1 click sufficed, I'm going to be sadly looking elsewhere for a desktop OS.
I don't understand this desire for convergence across devices.
47 • @ Marc Magi - Rolling Releases (by Lurks on 2016-11-22 15:28:50 GMT from United States)
The post is comparing rolling release distros from installing to using not to say whether one should use one. The main take I get is that Arch and derivatives once set up provide an excellent user experience overall. Sabayon seems to be the next, easier to set up, not quite as bleeding edge (presumably stabler), though with a slower package manager. The other two seem to be solid efforts.
The primary reason to use a rolling release is periodic reinstalls are not required not that they are necessarily bleeding edge. The apparent bleeding edge aspect comes from the continual updating any and all packages on the system after the maintainers have blessed them for release. The one downside of this is that there will be more updates with more bandwidth being used; for some a very important consideration.
48 • @45, ReactOS (by Jay on 2016-11-22 19:15:57 GMT from United States)
I also tried this release, which worked a lot better than the last time I tested it (of course, that was a long time ago when moving the mouse would cause it to crash). It has come a long way. It boots much faster than I thought, shutdown is also very quick, and the RAM footprint is where many lightweight desktops are.
The one negative I found was that writing to disk seemed to be very slow (and maybe reading too). The VM itself was in tmpfs, so I know that the sluggishness was the OS. I was trying to copy 10-20k files into the system, which would take minutes on Windows (the total size was a few hundred MB). On ReactOS, it took an hour or two (not sure how long; I left it and did something else). When I tried to open the application to use it, it was equally slow to non-responsive. I don't know what the problem is, but I hope it is something that they'll get to. I'd like to be able to use it for older software/games/etc.
49 • @47 Rolling Releases (by linuxista on 2016-11-23 07:30:59 GMT from United States)
@47 You said, "Arch and its derivatives once set up..." Setting up Arch from a base install (the Arch way) is indeed more involved than installing, say, Ubuntu or Mint, and presents more opportunity for making mistakes as Jesse might have suffered in his test.
However, installing and "setting up a derivative," be it Manjaro, Apricity, Antergos, ArchBang or whatever else is just as easy as installing, say, Mint. So it is possible to get the excellent user experience without the extra burden at the outset.
Except for missing out on the educational experience, there's not real downside to installing a derivative/respin. Cruftiness doesn't really plague Arch, so you can add or subract apps and whole desktop environments without causing any systemic problems.
50 • UI (by Doug on 2016-11-23 19:58:55 GMT from United States)
I prefer to have different UI for different devices.
My laptop does not have touch capability, why would I want to have software that uses touch?
51 • GUI (by Martin on 2016-11-23 20:38:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
The Unity desktop completely put me off using Ubuntu after it was introduced, IMO a totally unnecessary attempt by canonical to impose a new interface on its many users.
If I use a full desktop, I use Mint, otherwise Fluxbox/Openbox minimalism is my choice. It is interesting that the majority of people polled on here tend to think that way too.
52 • Opinion Poll (by Alessandro di Roma on 2016-11-23 21:44:48 GMT from Italy)
I have a dream: the same user interface on my car and on my rowboat and on my bicycle and on my skis... or maybe it's a nightmare?
53 • @ 50 (by rom on 2016-11-23 22:54:40 GMT from United States)
Touch capabilities are already here. Most of the laptops have it. Once, yo get used to using a touch screen, it'd be pretty hard for you to return to the old way.
54 • @53 Touchscreens (by linuxista on 2016-11-24 04:34:02 GMT from United States)
My new laptop has a touchscreen and I'm using Gnome3 which arguably has the best touch interface. And... I never use it. Never feel the urge to touch the screen. I use a trackball mouse primarily, keyboard shortcuts secondarily, touchpad when I don't have the trackball, and the touchscreen the first day or two after I got the laptop, and nevermore. If I had a convertible laptop where it acted like I tablet I guess I might use it, but I don't see the convenience at all with a regular laptop in reaching for the screen and making big gestures that I can do with a flick of the finger with my hands near the keyboard.
55 • @54 Touchscreens on laptops (by Hoos on 2016-11-24 08:13:42 GMT from Singapore)
Makers and developers should also consider there will always be people like me who have very sweaty hands and really would prefer not to smear their screens with wet streaks if they can help it.
If you're already using the keyboard of your PC/laptop for work and heavy drafting of documents, a touchscreen interface isn't necessary at all.
As it is, I have to clean my tablet/phone screens all the time and it is highly inconvenient.
In the poll I therefore chose to have different interfaces for different devices. The interface should be appropriate for the usual tasks that a device is used for.
I believe people nowadays are quite adaptable and can switch easily between what's "normal" interface for handheld devices and what's normal for a work machine.
56 • @ 54, 55 (by Gert on 2016-11-24 11:09:05 GMT from Netherlands)
How about buying a simple capacitive pen, if your hands are sweaty? You can make a capacitive pen with a simple conductive material. There are lot of youtube videos on that.
I use fingers and a capacitive pen I made myself when working on documents, and even designing. Once you get used to using your fingers on the screen, your usage of the mouse is less. Working long hours with the mouse brings in wrist and palm problems.
57 • @56 (by Vukota on 2016-11-24 14:17:02 GMT from Montenegro)
Quite opposite, using finger and pen on the screen "brings in wrist and palm problems". If you experience the same with mouse, you should look for another mouse. I guaranty that using proper mouse on the desk is the lowest pressure and effort on your muscles .
From the practicality stand point, I 100% agree that artistic skill and teaching/presentation skills are easier with a capacitive pen, and that is why I do need a hybrid UI experience on the desktop that supports capacitive touch (one that will not work the same as the one with mouse). When the touch is involved, you do need few different behaviors (for pen/fingers) and surrounding that has more icons, less menus, and bigger area for clicks/selections. And that is why I voted other, because I do wish to have separate desktop UI/behavior choices for
(2) mobile and
(3) HYBRID (I don't need dumbed down environment in this option to the level of the cell phone or even tablet)
Right now, under Linux situation is very sad for the option #3. The reason is probably the same as why Apple doesn't support touchscreens on OS X devices (as it would require new type of the UI experience).
58 • @57 (by Niemen on 2016-11-24 16:48:39 GMT from United States)
Touch screen is not that supported by Linux distros. None has pinching, zooming abilities. Maybe they have simple open, close, moving, but that's not enough. Right now, other than Android, only Windows appears to have full touch screen abilities in all platforms.
59 • @53, 54, 58 (by Doug on 2016-11-24 17:09:09 GMT from United States)
@53 I have a Dell Latitude D830, no touch capability, why should I buy a new laptop when this one works? I also have a Lenovo Flex, that has touch capability that I almost never use.
Got no use for touch capability. I have an android tablet that I touch all the time with the stylus and only touch with my fingers in order to resize text that is to small to read.
@54, well said.
@58 I have Linux Mint 18 on my Flex and touch works to resize text. So, yes you can zoom if you want.
60 • @59 (by min on 2016-11-24 18:43:54 GMT from Canada)
No, the touch screen actions doesn't work with Mint 18. It won't work with Firefox, which is Mint's default. Some Chromium based browsers allow some touch actions, but not other usual apps. Right now, there isn't a Linux distro that is cleared for touch actions.
61 • Touch (by Doug on 2016-11-24 19:18:03 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint 18 with Chromium, touch works fine.
With FF, the same motion to resize text, just highlights the text.
This is a FF issue. There is probably a way to configure this behavior in FF.
62 • @61 (by Doug on 2016-11-24 19:38:11 GMT from United States)
Now you can use Touch, FF and Linux.
63 • @58 pinch zoom (by linuxista on 2016-11-24 23:02:26 GMT from United States)
GNOME3 definitely does support pinch zooming, swiping as well as other multi-tocuch gestures. I'm afraid that's not the reason a touchscreen on a laptop just isn't a desired feature for me even though I have one.
64 • Tails 3.0 Alpha 1_stretching_the_limits (by k on 2016-11-25 07:34:54 GMT from Romania)
There will probably be some disappointed by 64-bit only version out
at this time, but this latest Tails seems to prove that project is a
really productive return on investment.
Happy to have learned of it from DistroWatch and still wondering
how the Tails project developers do their "magic", I went a bit far
downloading and testing other live distros alongside this Tails 3.0
Alpha 1, but kept and keep on using this Tails. So fast, so functional.
We all have our "little needs".
Actually, rather neglected the live Tails with persistent I have been
using and upgrading for some years.
Much thanks and kudos to the Tails project team and donators.
65 • ALT Linux (by Somewhat Reticent on 2016-11-25 08:26:21 GMT from United States)
Weren't they working with Secure_Boot years ago? How many distros have ISOs that work with this enabled?
If I Remember Correctly, they offer live ISOs with about a dozen different DE/WMs for test/demo/install usage, as well as more ISOs for yet more DE/WM/init flavors, and their corporate workstation editions are 'free for personal use'.
Haven't seen them on LinuxTracker since 2015 May.
66 • rolling release (by voncloft on 2016-11-25 09:23:20 GMT from United States)
I can not stand stable locked releases (mint, ubuntu, etc...) - when you upgrade to the next release there is always a possibility something will go wrong and you were just better off to have installed from scratch to begin with - after that pleasent experience of the first 4 years of my "linux learning/experiences" i moved to Arch as my first rolling distro - but it was just to bleeding edge...so i decided to go with Gentoo - I get more control, it is built for my system in real time (no binaries of generic packages), and it is best of all stable.
67 • MX 16 RC1 (by tom joad on 2016-11-25 16:19:50 GMT from Czech Republic)
I want to get a giant shout out to the MX Linux folks for the latest release even though it is still a RC.
I like it, I like it ALOT!
I have used MX-15 for a long time. Then I tried Mint again. And it was Mint. But the MX folks got it going on. It is fast, adjustable and I love the right click on the screen so you can just get on with your business.
However, I would very much like to see Keepassx added to MX-16. That would make it better for a lot of folks, myself included. And if you do it, do the 2.x version. Tails just upgraded to 2.x in their 3.0 alpha release. Good move. I have been straddling both versions. Otherwise I will have to add it as I do.
Jesse, maybe we could have a review of MX-16 in the by and by...
68 • @63 touch screen actions (by Niemen on 2016-11-25 17:59:50 GMT from United States)
I can tell you that Gnome 3 doesn't have pinching zooming abilities. I'm writing from Gnome3 and a touch screen laptop, so I know. If you install Chrome or Chromium, you may get those abilities, but only on that web browser. Nautilus won't work, or any other default apps.
69 • @67 0 tom joad (by Chris Whelan on 2016-11-25 18:22:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
MX-16 includes Seahorse for password and key management.
70 • @68 gnome3 pinching (by linuxista on 2016-11-25 19:06:45 GMT from United States)
I can tell you that Gnome 3 does have pinch zooming abilities. I'm writing from Gnome3 and a touch screen laptop. So I know. Pinch zooming works in Chrome, Brave, and Epiphany browsers. Looks like it works in Firefox as well, with add-ons or not, but this is a more of a question of Firefox than Gnome. Pinch zooming also works with image and pdf viewers in Gnome. If your point is that pinch zooming is not universal across all apps, including GTK2 based GUIs, that is certainly true, but your statement was categorical in saying that Gnome3 does not support pinch zooming. And that is false.
71 • GUI design going down... (by Andy Mender on 2016-11-25 19:12:10 GMT from Austria)
And I wish GUI designers would stop behaving like artists and trying to fit one size to both mobile and desktop devices. It.makes.no.sense. It was proven NOT to work so many times that any further attempt I am fair to attribute to sheer ignorance.
There is a reason why HAND-held devices have a touch screen and desktop devices typically do not. Why even think of building a touch-centric GUI and shoving it onto a desktop OS? There is enough over-engineering as it is...
Also, someone mentioned developers as the culprit. No, it's not the fault of the developers solely. It's the fault of the so-called "end-users", who have unrealistic expectations and throw a fit whenever those expectations are not met. There actually do exist developers who understand what a GUI can be used for. "Shiny" should not be on such a list.
72 • GUIs across devices (by Simon Wainscott-Plaistowe on 2016-11-25 19:57:40 GMT from New Zealand)
It will be interesting to take Endless OS for a test drive, however I suspect I'll still be using Cinnamon & MATE as my desktops of choice. Why? ...simply because they both have reasonably modest resource requirements and they both provide a comprehensive desktop computing experience. Meanwhile I continue to use Android phones because they're inexpensive and do everything a phone should do. Both Canonical and Microsoft have tried the "one OS size fits all" approach and IMHO it hasn't worked particularly well for either of them, although I do believe Ubuntu's Unity has much potential. Perhaps the future will bring the Killer-OS-for-All-Devices, but for now I'll stick to using interfaces which are specifically designed to provide the best user experience for the relevant hardware.
73 • Endless OS (by RJA on 2016-11-26 01:06:52 GMT from United States)
Endless OS=More like The Beginning Of The End OS
The developers apparently think they can take control away from the comsumer and change the license to suit a screwed up agenda.
74 • MX-16 (by Stormbringer on 2016-11-26 08:25:13 GMT from United States)
Kudos to anticaptalista for providing a much unique and original Linux distribution. Both Mepis and antiX run on my dust box and couldn't be any happier.
Simply a distro with excellence under the hood!
75 • @74 MX-16 (by Niemen on 2016-11-26 08:48:12 GMT from United States)
"The 32 bit version ships with 2 stable 3.16 Debian kernels (pae and non-pae), while the 64 bit comes with the more recent Debian backports 4.7 kernel to cater for newer hardware."
The above is from MX Linux. Linux kernel's development is to support newer hardware, rather than support for new software. We users have that comfort of all old apps working in 'old' kernels. Between 4.7 and 3.16, there is a massive difference, isn't there?
76 • MX-16 (by Stormbringer on 2016-11-26 20:09:45 GMT from United States)
Yes, spot on! have been using antix-mephis for a few years and now it certainly has a lot more look and feel with MX-16. Very pleased with this release.
Sometimes a little impatient waiting on update-upgrade so run either testing or sid with all installs. A world of difference between stable and testing. Please to know anticapitalista is helping lead the way with systemd-less distributions. Very responsive, very fluid and no drag!
77 • @76 MX-16 is Stable only (by Jerry on 2016-11-27 22:58:39 GMT from United States)
There is no option to run Testing or Sid with MX, though antiX offers those options. MX is based on Stable, adding many backports and non-Debian packages as well as the native MX Tools.
Number of Comments: 77
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