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1 • Elementary Review (by Ari Torres on 2016-10-31 00:31:42 GMT from United States)
Right ON Jesse
Elementary OS Loki 0.4 is too buggy to say the least. It is a beautiful design but compare to previous releases this one is a regression.
There are tons of improvements to be apply, WiFi, Printers, Pantheon and few Apps that are badly designed.
Good Luck eOS Team.
2 • Elementary OS Loki (by Dion on 2016-10-31 00:34:38 GMT from United States)
I have not had any of the issues the reviewer had. I am running Loki on Surface Pro 3 (i7 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD) and Alienware i3 Desktop. Other than having to install software-properties-common and gnome-software so I can add PPAs and deb files, the OS runs smoothly.
I wish there was a way to install proprietary drivers. Seeing how there are daily OS updates, I figure there they will get there soon.
3 • Fav WM (by linuxista on 2016-10-31 00:34:51 GMT from United States)
Hard to choose b/t i3 and openbox. Fav. tiling vs. fav. stacking.
4 • Other WM (by Torres Johoinon on 2016-10-31 00:39:43 GMT from United States)
Motif Window Manager for me.
5 • No particular subject ? (by bigsky on 2016-10-31 00:45:37 GMT from Hungary)
That's it. I am done Distro hopping and that's not elementary Watson.( and don't ask me have I ever tried it ) No more experiments. Stick a fork in me as I am done. It's LINUX MINT from now on. END of STORY. Thanks
6 • Window manager & Rolling release (by Sparky on 2016-10-31 00:51:49 GMT from United States)
Favorite window manager: Budgie
Favorite rolling release: Solus
'nuff said!
7 • window manager (by Gilbert Sanford on 2016-10-31 01:10:12 GMT from United States)
cwm (the calm window manager) on OpenBSD is my all time favorite. It's part of the default installation along with tmux and vi (not vim,) a developer's dream come true (I'm old school, and, yes, I even use ed from time to time :-) You can read the man pages at:
http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man1/cwm.1
http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man5/cwmrc.5
How clean and concise compared to the manual pages of other window managers!
Regarding rolling releases, try running OpenBSD current, and see what you think. I've tried a few operating systems in my day, and OpenBSD is hard to beat.
Cheers,
Gilbert
8 • WindowMaker (by tuxmm on 2016-10-31 02:13:28 GMT from United States)
WindowMaker; highly customizable, super fast, stays out of the way.
9 • DIRTY COW DISEASE affects Linux - not scary (by Greg Zeng on 2016-10-31 02:38:07 GMT from Australia)
Https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.26
Author: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Date: Thu Oct 20 10:01:03 2016 +0200
Linux 4.4.26
Author: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Date: Thu Oct 13 13:07:36 2016 -0700
This is an ancient bug that was actually attempted to be fixed once
(badly) by me eleven years ago in commit 4ceb5db9757a ("Fix
get_user_pages() race for write access") but that was then undone due to
problems on s390 by commit f33ea7f404e5 ("fix get_user_pages bug").
In the meantime, the s390 situation has long been fixed
The above "press release" shows that any Linux Kernel released by the Linux Foundation after the above date ... Is "safe", for every kernel dated after "Thu Oct 20 10:01:03 2016". These updated kernels could be from not just the Linux Foundation. Some distro makers will have their own kernel upgrades: Canonical, Arch, PCLOS, etc.
Kernel updates can also be upgraded easily with some down-time and a few CLI lines of code, depending on the version of Linux. It also means that all Linux kernels after Kernel 4.8.3 is auto-immune.
What is not mentioned is that the next major Linux Kernel (version 4.9) will allow system admins update the Linux kernel, but not have any major down-time. To every responsible operating system, down-time can be enormously expensive. Ver 4.9 is now in Beta x release now. New kernels are being updated & released almost every day now, much to my annoyance. Some kernel updates are very trivial imho. The final ver 4.9 will be released next year, on a supposed fixed date.
On this week's survey ... I don't know, and I don't care which windows manager I use. All I know is that it is Gnome, MATE, KDE, LXDE, etc. Some claim to also use OpenBox, etc. Most advanced Linux users imho, are not coders. We use our operating systems to get non-computer tasks done. Computers are not our reasons for living, nor working.
10 • Fav WM (by slick on 2016-10-31 02:41:25 GMT from United States)
Have to say that Openbox is my all time favorite, run multiple distributions which I also run Fluxbox and i3. WM's are just easier without the bloat of a DE.
Devuan is become my preference for a distribution, just a very stable and reliable release. Super light on the memory usage which further compliments the enjoyment of a WM.
Happy day!
Slick
11 • Rolling releases (by TheOtherDonald on 2016-10-31 02:53:04 GMT from United States)
I have never understood why Sabayon does not include vi. It wouldn't take up much room, and legend has it that vi is the best test editor to learn, since its guaranteed to be on every UNIX system. Apparently not this one. In general, there are several things I like about Sabayon's approach, and have thought it looks impressive when booted, but has been flakey for me once installed.
I would really like to be able to run OpenSUSE again. It was good in the early days, when it was done in Germany and there were only about 4 Linuxes. But it always seems to have its glitches. The last time I tried it (13.2), it would not install because it could not find a directory on its own DVD.
All in all, most Linux distros seem to be regressing lately.
12 • eOS Loki, rolling releases & desktop enviroments. (by mystified1234 on 2016-10-31 03:44:13 GMT from Australia)
I switched from Windows about 6 yrs ago. I think I've tried over 100 Distro's in that time, For a Noob one can't go past Deb/Ububtu/Mint for their first Linux. There is so much written in support & not mention in various forms of social media.
If we look at SysD based Distro's my preference would be either elementary Pantheon or Gnome 3. Elementary should be shipped with default elementary-tweak-daily, With these added features there is much more that can be done to enhance the desktop experience for a user to customize the Desktop in ways that only Gnome 3 can offer, The benefits of pantheon over Gnome 3 is it uses less resources & I believe it's, considerably faster. I enjoy gnome 3, but I don't like having to be connected to the net to constantly add plugins to tweak tool. I have been using Arch ( Apricity & Arch-Anywhere) with Gnome 3. I really prefer the benefit's of the rolling release over LTS Distros. I also prefer the Arch (pacman) package manager Vs Apt package manager.
I have started to move away from SysD (I have found it very buggy) & it's often hard to find solutions to rectify the boot solutions( that can take over 3 mins to boot), Especially if you do not have a technical background. I have been experimenting with Distro's that are not using SysD Unfortunately, there is really no options in Linux for SysD free (Gnome3 or Pantheon ), So I have been testing Calculate-Linux (Gentoo) with the Mate desktop. If you are wanting to test the waters with a Gentoo distro that is configured, having done all the hard work for you this is the one. It's good place to start for an intermediate Linux user, I certainly prefer it over Sabayon. The downside for Gentoo is it feels like you downloading half the internet when you are building pkgs or updating the Os, so if you have limited bandwidth then keep away from Gentoo based Distro's.
In the last fortnight I have enjoyed using TrueOs with Lumina desktop, I was initially frustrated with Idea of using lumina as my preferences were gnome 3 or pantheon. Lumina is based Kde. I have grown to like this, its fast & responsive & low on resources. TrueOs is based "freebsd12-current, thus is is a rolling release. Is configured & ready to go from the box. I will say they are incredibly helpful & friendly on their small but close forum & chat site. They go out of their way to help Noobs. It also uses
ZFS file system.
With respect to rolling releases my preferences would 1. Arch 2. TrueOs 3. Calculate-linux. Preference on Desktops 1. Pantheon (must have elementary-tweaks-daily installed) 2. Gnome3 . 3. Lumina.
As an Os, my preference has now moved to Bsd, I have in the past tried Freebsd & NetBsd I find for a noob, these are a to difficult for my level of understanding, So If you are considering testing a Bsd try TrueOs. I must emphasize that if you are considerin resting a Bsdm ake sure your hardware is compatible before trying to instal. So my Os preference would be 1. TrueOs 2. Arch ( either Apricity or Arch-anywhere) 3. Elementary.
I hope I have not bored you guys with my lengthy comments & I hope this is not tossed in the trash by Distrowatch.
Mystified.
Ps Love this website..
13 • favorite window manager = compiz (by LiuYan on 2016-10-31 03:55:56 GMT from Singapore)
Operating system: Fedora
Desktop Environment: MATE
Window Manager: Compiz
Optionally, I may use LXDE which use openbox as window manager.
14 • KWin forgotten? (by BeGo on 2016-10-31 04:03:45 GMT from Indonesia)
Correct me, please,
KWin is a windows manager. :)
15 • Re: favorite window manager (by Destino on 2016-10-31 05:55:20 GMT from United States)
I vote KDE in the destop poll as I find it most confortable for recreational use.
But in the office (I'm a system admin), I find wmii (short for Window Manager Improved Improved) compact and efficient. I think it's similar to i3 but has a more interesting configuration.
16 • favorite window manager (by argent on 2016-10-31 06:53:13 GMT from United States)
Past year have elected to spend time with tiling Wm's, bit tasking at first adjusting to something new and quite fond of i3. Still use openbox, fluxbox and blackbox as well.
@ 15 Destino: Will have to take a look at wmii, thank you!
@ 10 slick: Devuan has a lot to offer, simply the only way to go, getting away from the main stream big distributions. My desktop has never run at login at 165mb of memory, it does now!
17 • Favourite WM (by OstroL on 2016-10-31 07:24:55 GMT from Germany)
Openbox.
Also gave you guys a few distros to download, Monara, Nelum (Debian and Devuan).
18 • Rolling release distros (by billc on 2016-10-31 07:44:15 GMT from Australia)
Void and Calculate if you want to avoid systemd. I have been running Calculate for >6 months with no issues except for the LXQT DE freezing - fixed with XFCE! I have just started using Void - it is awesome.
19 • Fave Window Manager (by RoboNuggie on 2016-10-31 08:49:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Motif Window Manager on FreeBSD. . . Scartches my *nix itch.
20 • Favourite window manager (by devtry on 2016-10-31 09:07:11 GMT from Italy)
dwm, http://dwm.suckless.org, btw awesome derived from it if I'm not mistaken
21 • Rolling (by Rick on 2016-10-31 10:26:36 GMT from United States)
I always liked the concept of rolling distros, because you always are up to date without waiting for releases or adding numerous third party repositories. When Arch based distros started to appear, I started trying them out. It is a great way to try Arch and then you can decide whether you want to do the "Arch way" installation.
I have found that Antergos works so well for me that I have forgone the Arch installation and it has replaced Ubuntu on most of my machines. It is definitely worth a try, if you want to check out Arch and see if it suits you.
22 • Other WM (by Charles on 2016-10-31 10:29:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
FVWM for me.
23 • JWM for the win (by session on 2016-10-31 10:35:29 GMT from United States)
I discovered Joe's Window Manager through Puppy Linux. Like Puppy, JWM is very fast, unadorned and extraordinarily usable--it's like a lighter version of Marco, the default wm on my current Mint setup. Stacking managers like Openbox and Xfwm are supposed to be this way too, but they're so much slower it's not funny.
24 • favorite wm (by karga on 2016-10-31 10:35:56 GMT from United States)
Been a fan and user of Openbox primarily, but on the other hand really appreciate Fluxbox. Started using various tiling window managers and liked i3 the most. JWM is another Wm that has been around a long while, found it to be a very lightweight and fast, plus easy to configure.
Openbox was the first I landed with after departing Windows for good, it just worked for me. Liked everything about it and wanted to learn Linux and Debian in particular.
Devuan has replaced Debian for me, simply a much better distribution base which offers better stability, certainly easier to configure and maintain.
Star Linux offer Ob, Fb, i3, and Jwm window managers along with Xfce. Those who would like to try them and Devuan can find the at SF.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/?source=directory
Zephyr Linux also has Ob, Fb, and Jwm.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/zephyrlinux/
These distributions are very lightweight and small (less than 600mb) live-hybrid image installable from a USB.
25 • My favourite window manager (by Don Shae on 2016-10-31 10:48:33 GMT from Netherlands)
I use PEKWM (https://www.pekwm.org/) with very much satisfaction.
26 • Boot Time of Rolling Releases (by sydneyj on 2016-10-31 11:11:37 GMT from United States)
@ Jessie - I was very surprised to see the 2-minute boot time noted for Arch, and over a minute for SUSE Tumbleweed. I have used Arch as a daily driver for some time, and just timed my boot at 12 seconds. I have Gentoo in a VM, and it boots under 15 seconds. Maybe a hardware problem at Distrowatch?
I don't believe any Arch or Gentoo user would tolerate a 2-minute boot time for very long. I would have changed years ago.
27 • Apps, package managers etc @ Jessie (by Lennie on 2016-10-31 11:53:42 GMT from Canada)
Our Linux distros are wound around a package manager. These package managers bind the apps to it in such a way, so the user has to use the distro's package manager, the gui one or through the terminal. In a way, that keeps the user a noob all the time, blocking them from digging in. You can install apps in another way and be the owner of the apps in your computer, and also not be worried about unwanted upgrades. Some upgrade might brake your system.
Take for example the .deb package based distros. Download a deb package and unpack it. You may get 3 folders. Unpack everyone and have a look at them. The control file would tell you what this app is dependant on. You may have all or some of the dependencies already. Check if you want to "install" any of the dependencies.
Inside the unpacked data file, you'd most find 3 folders, etc, usr and sometimes lib. Copy to /etc. /lib, /usr, only those you think you need for the app to run. You might need a link (desktop file) in /usr/share/applications, a file in /usr/bin, few folders and files in /usr/share.
Putting files and folders all over the root is what Linux distros (package managers) do. Most of the devs say, you need to update periodically. In other words, they are saying is that their app is not that ready. By not upgrading the app won't stop working.
By learning where to put files and folders, you'd start learning how the Linux system works. Don't rely on package managers or their shiny GUIs. Try yourself.
28 • WM / Desktop (by John on 2016-10-31 12:01:08 GMT from Canada)
@5 - I agree - Linux Mint for me! I've been distro-hopping since Slackware 2 in the early 90s, and no distro works better / smoother / "just works" than Mint. Currently using 18 Cinnamon and unless something really major happens, I think this is it for me :-)
29 • Boot time (by mandog on 2016-10-31 12:04:15 GMT from Peru)
Jessie Idon't suppose you asked systemD why it was hanging at boot?
Its in the Arch Wiki Just one the page is all the user needs https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd
in a terminal $ systemd-analyze blame would of told you the process that was hanging
as it prints the start time of every process starting with the longest 1st
$ systemd-analyze prints the total start time like this
Startup finished in 3.416s (kernel) + 5.433s (userspace) = 8.850s everything is simple commands even children can use much easier to use than any other init system to fix boot problems.
30 • For rolling release I can surely reccomend Void linux (by UT on 2016-10-31 12:18:00 GMT from Germany)
I run Void Linux for >12 months now, both on homerserver and every-day-use-laptop.
Besides the issues everyone else may have had with upstream-induced flaws (gtk3 theming for example...) I did not erxperience real trouble on my daily working machine.
Boots from grub to login in about 25sec, even less if would cut some things down to minimal ;)
check it out: www.voidlinux.eu
31 • Window manager (by César on 2016-10-31 13:16:20 GMT from Chile)
Hellow!!!
In the ancient times (Suse 9.3), i use window Maker, i like the style and the performance with the green Chameleon.
Now, in this time, i use Devuan Jessie with Mate in the main PC and Ubuntu Mate Edition in the old laptop.
Saludos desde Santiago de Chile.
32 • Favorite Window Manager... (by PMcCartney on 2016-10-31 13:29:43 GMT from United States)
If I had to choose, I would have to say, 'WindowMaker' as my favorite WM. It's super lightweight, and extremely fast and customizable. Before any of the desktop environments came into existence, WindowMaker was my WM of choice.
33 • JWM, because the code is so good (by bison on 2016-10-31 13:45:41 GMT from United States)
I like JWM because the code is clean and well written. If you are interested in modifying your window manager, JWM is a really good place to start.
At the other end of the spectrum is FLWM; it desperately needs to be refactored.
34 • Arch issues (by DaveW on 2016-10-31 13:48:27 GMT from United States)
I have been using Arch with the Mate DE for several years now. I think there was one time (maybe twice) when an update broke something. A little research was required to fix the problem(s), but not a lot. The system has never been unusable.
My boot time has always been about 10-15 seconds.
35 • Window Manager (by Jose on 2016-10-31 13:52:04 GMT from United States)
Favorite Window Manager is Windows Maker. Love the look and functionality.
Favorite Rooling Distro is PCLinuxOS. It is what I use everyday.
36 • poll (by Jordan on 2016-10-31 14:02:09 GMT from United States)
Looks like the "other" choice is getting about a third of us.
Mate and Cinnamon occupy my two laptops. I can't decide which one is my "favorite," as they serve different purposes on the two machines. Both are grand environments.
37 • Favorite Window Manager (by Kevin on 2016-10-31 14:10:56 GMT from United States)
Favorite window manager - DWM
38 • distro review (by Jordan on 2016-10-31 14:31:35 GMT from United States)
Something that has always intrigued and puzzled me a bit is the disparity in page hit ranking between distros that basically function very well from install to daily use, and distros that are troubled.
Case in point; this week's review of elementary, a terrible distro by my experience, which is borne out by the review in some ways. That distro enjoys being high in the top ten, while Korora and KaOS, as two examples, which function wonderfully and reliably, are way down the list, about 49 and 37 respectively.
I know that many factors drive distros up and down that page hit ranking list, but those examples seem almost startling.
39 • fav window manager (by Mark D on 2016-10-31 14:48:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
I installed OpenBSD a few weeks ago and got FVWM window manager; what a blast from the past! I had to remember how to use it, and I had forgotten that 'sloppy' focus used to be common on Unix machines.
Nice, but I wouldn't particularly want to go back to it. Gnome/Unity/XCFE may have their problems, but they have a lot of nice usability features and feel good to use too, in my experience, so I'm happy with today's 'desktop environments'.
40 • Elementary OS review (by Ennio on 2016-10-31 14:49:31 GMT from Netherlands)
Thanks to OSNews(.com, if you like), there is a review of Loki by a very professional user, that which contrasts with Mr. Smith's goal of assessing how painless/friendly/noobie/etc. a give GNU/Linux distribution can, should, or hopefully might be. The test on a Chromebook Acer C720 is here: http://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2016/10/29/2240.
Mind we all, not all hardware is created equal, and so are users. I wouldn't have bet a dime on the smoothness of such experience on a hardware category (prop products made "in house", aka: close the gate, spaff the sources) that inspires me sighs like "... and here it goes the cryptic piece of hardware with no drivers (yet)". On the other hand, I too, at times, would like to be spoon-fed. Corrections and remarks are welcome.
Cheers
41 • Rolling Releases (by Sam Crawford on 2016-10-31 14:54:50 GMT from United States)
I love Debian Stretch.
42 • Rolling Release left OUT! (by Bobbie Sellers on 2016-10-31 15:39:35 GMT from United States)
Should have included a mention of PCLinux OS.
Since the Weekly did not hear is my little report.
I will say that you can encounter some problems
at various installation points but always found
a work-around.
I am running a fully updated PCLinux OS 2016.03
on my Pavilion notebook with 12 Gigabytes of RAM
and an AMD A10 4 core machine.
The kernel updates have been coming thru very quickly,
One had a <90 minute interval from the previous release.
Currently on the Pavilion have 4.8.4-pclos1 with KDE's
Plasma 4,14.18
Updates to Plasma (about 40) came down last week.
On my salvaged Dell E6420 I have a useless Windows 7,
the main control for the rest of the system is again PCLOS 2016.03
again fully updated and using kernel 4.8.5,
There is a preview version of PCLinuxOS 2019.07 with KDE's
Plasma 5 running kernel 4.8.5, Updates are coming thru
pretty fast but Plasma 5 remains far from the smoothness and
convenience of Plasma 4, with only slight improvements to
a few points and lots of missing plugins.
On the same machine I have a Ubuntu Studio install that I haven't
looked at much because the interface in 16.04.1 turns me off.
Finally a blast from the past, pclos-babymate-2015.10 is
updated to kernel 4.1.26 and has a older version of Mate
the was appealing running live as it looked a lot like my
old Amiga. The unique thing in these days of simplified
releases is that the pclos-babymate-2015.10.iso is about
490 Megabytes. Of course they get to that size by
leaving out tools like Firefox and Thunderbird that
require more space.
I started Linux with Mandriva 2006 and update every
year until 2011 when the late release was broken,
I love the drakxtools which is why I went to Mageia 4.1
and Mageia 5 when PCLOS had no way to deal with
the UEFI systems on the Pavilion except by removing
Windows installation. As soon as I heard via Distrowatch
in a tiny note that PCLOS 2016.03 was out and could deal
with UEFI I started trying it again and by the second month
had moved across from Mageia 5 to PCLinux OS.
I have checked out each release of Open Mandriva and
been unimpressed even when it worked on my hardware.
Truely Rolling releases need an system duplication so that
if and when an update fails a quick reboot will take you back
to the latest operating version. Failing that do those backups.
bliss
43 • Rolling Releases (openSUSE) (by Pierre on 2016-10-31 15:56:37 GMT from Germany)
I used openSUSE tumbleweed for quite a long time now. Never had real issues. And if you install openSUSE like suggested onto a Btrfs partition it is very easy to revert to the last snapshot of the system via snapper as zypper does a snapshot before and after every package manager job.
This is what I am missing about almost every other rolling release distro at the moment. The only OS which does something comparable is TrueOS.
Manjaro is based on Arch and is rolling as well - it replaced my openSUSE installation on my Laptop recently and performes great since the installation. So maybe worth a try as well.
44 • @ Jessie - the GRUB problem (by Mark on 2016-10-31 16:05:37 GMT from Canada)
> The first time I went through the install process and rebooted, Arch failed to load, reporting the kernel could not be found. A little exploring revealed that the installation script for the GRUB boot loader had incorrectly detected the drive identifier (UUID) on my hard disk. I swapped out the bad identifier in my GRUB configuration...<
This is nothing to do with Arch installation. It is a problem with your GRUB from your other distro you have in your computer.
45 • Window Managers (by Jake on 2016-10-31 16:21:14 GMT from United States)
I really like this memory comparison of window managers and desktops:
https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/
I used to think that XFCE was "light," but it is up there with Cinnamon. In that case, I'd use Mate instead! I use Openbox on my netbook and on some custom stuff I've done. Probably would give JWM a try, used it on Puppy.
What does a DE offer over a WM? For example, why would I want Cinnamon over Openbox (with "start" menus installed)? Is it all eye candy, or is there something else?
46 • Rolling release trial#2 - Problems with Arch Linux (by Wim Herremans on 2016-10-31 16:43:29 GMT from Belgium)
@JessSmith.
I cannot confirm the problems you had with Archlinux in your article on "Rolling releasetrial #2".
You wrote:
"I then set about manually enabling networking, installing a display manager and installing a desktop environment, along with the proper video drivers. Here, I once again ran into a problem as the LightDM display manager I had selected for handling logins installed, but failed to load. LightDM would crash on start-up and the log entries it provided were of no help in trouble-shooting."
I am using Arch Linux already many years and I have never has any serious problems with it.
Today, I freshly installed Arch Linux on my 4 year old Acer Aspire V3-571 laptop (i5 processor) to see if I encountered the problems you mentioned.
I have installed the XFCE desktop environment and the Lightdm display manager with gtk-greeter (packages lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter and lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings).
This enabled me to start the XCFE desktop without any problems.
You also wrote:
"One issue I noticed with Arch, beyond the setup problems with UUIDs and the LightDM login manager, was that the boot process was unusually slow. While booting, at least one service would be unresponsive, leaving systemd to wait. This meant booting Arch took a little over two minutes with the default configuration."
I have measured the boottime from the moment that I press ENTER on the bootmanager until the display of Lightdm. The result: 20 s.
I agree this is a rather minimum installation without networkmanager and without CUPS.
Therefore, I also measured the boottime on the Arch installation I normally use, which has lightdm, XFCE, networkmanager and CUPS and which is already installed for more than a a year. Result: 30 s.
47 • Boot loader (by Jesse on 2016-10-31 17:10:23 GMT from Canada)
>> "This is nothing to do with Arch installation. It is a problem with your GRUB from your other distro you have in your computer."
I know this is not the case and the reason I know is the drive was wiped clean before the trial and Arch was the first distro installed. There was no existing GRUB entry or installation before Arch was set up. So, yes, it is a problem with the Arch set up.
>> "Jessie Idon't suppose you asked systemD why it was hanging at boot? "
No and it is not an issue which interests me, really. Not for the pruposes of this trial anyway. By the way, the preferrd spellings are "Jesse" and "systemd".
>> " I was very surprised to see the 2-minute boot time noted for Arch, and over a minute for SUSE Tumbleweed. Maybe a hardware problem at Distrowatch?"
Clearly not since both the other operating systems in the trial (and, as I mentioned, Mint before that) all have very good boot times. The boot time issue was specific to just Arch and openSUSE, the other three distros I tested later in the week booted quickly.
48 • Favorite WM (by Pavel on 2016-10-31 17:21:54 GMT from Romania)
My favorite Window manager is JWM ! although I do NOT USE it on my computer !!! I cannot have my computer the way I truly dream to because I need my computer to be productive, to feature professional tools ( utilities ) so I use Budgie window manager&desktop session. I have tested JWM and sometimes under multitasking with lot-of-RAM using ( hungry ) applications crashes and the session ends up instantly redirecting me ( the user ) to the default login manager. So JWM is my favorite window manager and I hope Linux distributions and maybe even BSDs to feature editions of Live Disks ( ISOs ) with it so I can enjoy it when I have the time !
49 • Window Managers (by evbo on 2016-10-31 17:23:39 GMT from United States)
I've floated between i3-gaps and bspwm in the past, but always come back to bspwm
50 • Rolling release wm (by Gekxxx on 2016-10-31 17:24:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
Very happy with Antergos xcfe. Keeps getting better all the time.
51 • Window mangers (by David on 2016-10-31 17:26:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
I need the facilities of a full desktop, but I've tried most WMs over the years. For me, the best are Icewm and JWM, but it may be that AntiX and Puppy have added enhancements.
52 • crashed on the rocky, barren shores of UEFI (by tom joad on 2016-10-31 17:40:06 GMT from United States)
I just bought a new computer. I checked to make sure the hardware would work with Anti-x and others in the Debian branch. That is always what I have done in the past with good results.
Only I crashed hard on the rocky, barren shores of UEFI!
OMG. Who this side of Hell dreamed that up? Worse still, looks like the ghouls in Redmond had their wretched fingers in it as well.
I gather their utter failure to write tight relatively bug free software caused them to come up with the concepts of Secure Boot!
My guess is the goal is for folks just to go with Windows 10 and shut up. Sorry, ain't a-gonna happen on my watch.
So I will work through it, the sun will shine again too. But what an Oooooogly surprise UEFI was for me.
53 • crashed on... (by nolinuxguru on 2016-10-31 17:58:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
@52 I have been waiting for the decision by Mircosoft affiliates at UEFI-central to not require Window-10 computers to allow an opt-out from Secure Boot to hit home. Did you buy such a machine? I have been buying HP machines with Windows 7 [and Windows 10 as option], but this choice may not last.
The only alternative would be to replace the BIOS with LibreBoot, but that is a scary and difficult path.
54 • @52 (by Jay on 2016-10-31 18:10:47 GMT from United States)
I hit this same problem with a new Dell laptop. You're right, you will get through it. The one trick to make it work for me was needing to set up a boot entry from the BIOS itself (or the UEFI manager or whatever they call it now... hitting F2 from boot). Until I did that, the system refused to boot from the internal eMMC because it required UEFI as a special "feature." The laptop did boot legacy from USB which drove me crazy for a long time!! The installer also did not do this properly. It set up a folder for grub, but then I had to manually point the boot manager to it.
55 • @47 Jessie (by Mark on 2016-10-31 19:33:23 GMT from Canada)
> know this is not the case and the reason I know is the drive was wiped clean before the trial and Arch was the first distro installed. There was no existing GRUB entry or installation before Arch was set up.
If you've wiped your hard disk clean, and there was no other distros installed, there would be one partition, OR where did you install it? Or you had so many (free) partitions, HOW did you know your installed Arch didn't find the installed partition's UUID?
I just installed Arch, just to check. Nothing like what you say happened!
56 • Desktop Manager (by Chazd on 2016-10-31 19:39:36 GMT from United States)
@6 I agree Budgie/Solus all the way. Best rolling distro out there.
57 • Arch and UUIDs (by Jesse on 2016-10-31 20:03:26 GMT from Canada)
>> "If you've wiped your hard disk clean, and there was no other distros installed, there would be one partition, OR where did you install it? "
When i began the installation of Arch there were zero partitions, the drive had been zeroed. When I ran the Arch install process I created two partitions, one for root (/) and one for swap. Those were the only partitions at the time. The UUIDs which were written to the GRUB configuration file during the grub install/setup did not match either partition. I don't know where they came from.
>> "HOW did you know your installed Arch didn't find the installed partition's UUID?
If you read the article you'll find I explained Arch would not boot because GRUB had the wrong UUIDs. When I manually changed them in the grub config file, the distribution was able to boot.
>> "I just installed Arch, just to check. Nothing like what you say happened!"
That is nice for you, but not at all relevant to my experiences.
58 • @ 57 (by Mark on 2016-10-31 20:23:30 GMT from Canada)
> I don't know where they came from. <
That's better than saying Arch is bad.
If you had only 2 partitions, there'd be 2 UUIDs, so it can be one or the other. There can't be something out of the sky. Its a GRUB problem. Or maybe the way you installed Arch.
Installing Arch is quite a straightforward matter, and its a simple boot. Try again, until you get it right.
59 • WMs (by geert on 2016-10-31 20:26:24 GMT from Netherlands)
I use Openbox most of the time, and sometimes DWM. Do you use DWM?
60 • rolling (by mike on 2016-10-31 20:37:07 GMT from United States)
I've been using Sparky Linux (Debian testing) for over a year now. It's been rock-solid. When I do reboot, which is not very often, it's fast, in the 15 to 20 second range. Although the current standard Debian itself may not be as bleeding edge as some others, it's testing release really isn't as stodgy as some make it out to be. It's not quite Sid, but is very stable.
61 • Window Managers (by nolinuxguru on 2016-10-31 20:40:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
I use Openbox mainly because on Devuan it has obmenu. Obmenu is a really easy-to-use way of creating your own menus away from the complications of XML [or worse]. With this and lxterminal [borrowed from LXDE], I can get started with as little as 150mb memory]. Still, running [and using] Chromium or Firefox as a browser soon gets the actual memory requirement up to 1gb.
62 • Arch install (by Jesse on 2016-10-31 20:41:55 GMT from Canada)
>> "If you had only 2 partitions, there'd be 2 UUIDs, so it can be one or the other. There can't be something out of the sky. "
Nope, the UUIDs of either of my partitions did not match the ones which the GRUB setup process placed in the configuration file. So, this time it seems it really was just (as you put it) out of the sky.
>> "Try again, until you get it right."
That's a bit silly and patronizing. I've done many installations of Arch (a handful I've documented here on DW), all of them prior to now have worked out. And there really are only two commands for setting up GRUB. It's not like there is any room for the GRUB installation to go wrong. You're really just making excuses for an issue which A) shouldn't exist and B) has very little to do with the focus of the article.
63 • PekWM (by Markus on 2016-10-31 20:55:21 GMT from Serbia)
PekWM has all that openbox has + tabbing as in fluxbox.
I add compton, skippy-xd & piedock for ergonomy/i-candy(C).
After 5 years Arch is more stable than Pclos. Both are good.
64 • Rolling release left out (by Harold on 2016-10-31 21:01:18 GMT from United States)
To Bobbie Sellers... I totally agree with your post. I have been running PCLOS for several years now and still love it. It just works. Many of the other linux flavors that I have looked at just don't cut it.
I run the latest KDE version on my desktop and laptop. I also have the latest Mate version installed on another desktop that has Windows 7 on it. Mate controls the boot menu. Great job Texstar and all the minions.
65 • antiX Linux makes it very easy to try different window managers (by billc on 2016-10-31 21:45:34 GMT from Australia)
antiX has an interesting feature, it allows you to change window manager from the application Start menu. The options are Fluxbox, IceWM, Jwm and Herbsluftwm. You can also choose the WM with Rox, Space or minimal.
This works from the live distro as well - makes it very easy to see these WMs in action.
66 • @62 (by Mark on 2016-10-31 22:02:00 GMT from Canada)
As you've installed many distros, you should know if grub fails, then its a grub problem, rather than the distro problem. Grub is the app, and an app can fail sometimes. Grub is also notoriously know to fail.
Now that you have 4 distros in your comp, try installing Loki in one of the free partitions. Elementary Loki would take over Grub. When you try to boot OpenSuse or Arch or whatever you have, Grub might not see one or few. Lately Grub is having problems in recognizing partitions.
67 • @59 DWM? (by Mark on 2016-10-31 22:05:47 GMT from Canada)
Sure, geert, I too sometimes use DWM. I know what you mean. I'm sure many of us use DWM to.
68 • GRUB (by Jesse on 2016-10-31 22:17:07 GMT from Canada)
>> "you should know if grub fails, then its a grub problem"
I'm not sure it really matters whose fault it is, the end result is the same. I think too much time gets spent trying to point blame in the open source community when, in the end, what matters is whether something works. The end user is not going to care if their computer doesn't boot because of the installer, GRUB or a distro config error or a package maintainer bungled a script. What the end user knows is their computer is not booting, the fine details are not important to them.
>> "Grub is also notoriously know to fail."
Maybe, but I think this is only the third time I've experienced a problem with GRUB in the past 15 years or so. When we take into account how many thousands of installs I've performed, across hundreds of distros, that's a pretty decent track record.
69 • @58 Mark (by Dave on 2016-10-31 22:37:04 GMT from United States)
-That's better than saying Arch is bad.
It's not that great, either.
-If you had only 2 partitions, there'd be 2 UUIDs, so it can be one or the other. There can't be something out of the sky. Its a GRUB problem. Or maybe the way you installed Arch.
How many different ways are there to install Arch? I only know one.
-Installing Arch is quite a straightforward matter, and its a simple boot. Try again, until you get it right.
Arch is not straightforward, and all distro's are a 'simple boot.' "Try again?" Really, is that what you did? Several times till you got it right?
70 • 45 • Window Managers (by Greg Zeng on 2016-11-01 00:29:28 GMT from Australia)
The url is more than three years old. Many changes have been made. Significant or not changes? Unsure, until the tests are repeated.
https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/ (March 17, 2013).
Interesting questions you posed: "What does a DE offer over a WM? ... "
Answers afaik. If you are using Raspberry Pi CPU, with a very low powered CPU and scarcely any memory, and very poor GPU, then DE in not wanted. If it is a desktop computer, the CPU, GPU, memory, storage & IO ports are not so tight, so DE is ok.
The scary-cats will pretend we all run matchbox gadgets. Most of us do not. So XFCE, KDE-Plasma, MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, etc are ok. The WM-fuss is for the match-box gadgeteers. The 30% percentage of "other" in the original poll indicates this imho.
71 • WM vs DE (by jeff on 2016-11-01 02:53:52 GMT from United States)
The idea that only people that have low power computers would want a WM instead of a DE is like saying _everyone_ wants a big luxury car.
Personally I prefer a high performance hot rod over a luxury car.
With a WM instead of a DE a fast computer is even faster.
Does a DE really do enough to justify the extra overhead?
Does a DE make your web browser work better?
Does a DE make your video or audio player work better?
Does a DE make your text editor work better?
Does a DE make your (insert anything you use your computer for) work better?
72 • Enlighten Me (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-11-01 03:51:59 GMT from United States)
Rolling releases
I second the recommendation for Void Linux. I wish Void had been enrolled in this testing cycle. It's what Arch Linux should have become by now. Other good options for VD- avoidance include Alpine Linux "Edge" and Manjaro OpenRC.
The marvel of Void is how such a tiny team keeps thousands of packages instantly up-to-date, on all architectures, while other distros need prodding. Void's build chain is git atop buildbot.net. Would you other distros please copy? It's awesome.
Window Managers and Desktop Environments
The terms seem misnomers. They're conglomerate concepts needing old-school software factoring. Few gizmos in this realm do things The Unix Way (tm). They do things the M$FT or Crapple Way. Challenge: find a single-purpose tool for desktop icon management still actively developed.
Most WMs/DEs center on a file manager. That because what they really do, from a user standpoint, is drag-n-drop and file association. It's all about icons: what happens when you drag one, what when you click one.
Window resize, compositing, etc. is properly "window management." I don't even include "theme management" here, let alone panels.
What I want is mix-n-match. I hope Lumina Desktop will offer such factoring. It promises a plug-in architecture.
OpenBox needs no hacker 5k!11z. Just use the GUI tools. I suppose LXQt is the minimalist DE "for the rest of us." Many center on keyboard control, which I detest, but to each his own.
I wish I could grok Enlightenment, but it seems in everlasting beta for the latest spiffy new API 2.0 du jour. The API is all E ever advertises with any enthusiasm. E lacks a user-centric outlook. It may run super fast and light on everything, but I can't work the widgets. The default rigging always sends me away confused. If someone has configs to make E look like Manjaro XFCE then I'm all ears.
No WMs/DEs offer GUIs to control "special" locations ($XDG vars). None do security / sweeping for recent files listings. Why should my wife see the titles in my vast trove of ... oh, never mind ...
73 • WM vs DE (by m1 on 2016-11-01 04:10:20 GMT from Switzerland)
>>Does a DE really do enough to justify the extra overhead?
Yes. Plenty of eyecandy and complete solutions for all those many users which don't wan't to have anything to configure and tweak, and yet an attractive system.
PS. I'm a WM user! (openbox with my own tyling config, and every now and then i3)
74 • And Another Thing (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-11-01 04:10:58 GMT from United States)
And would you DEs kindly take a heavy, bloodthirsty hatchet to your ridiculous file indexing Spotlight-Google crappleware. These slow-down spyware gizmos need to be OPTIONAL EXTRAS, not mandatory dependencies.
So does PulseAudio. A DE should let me use any sound platform I want. Believe it or not, some of us don't give a rip about bluetooth, and don't want our sound streams tied into network ports or smartphones.
75 • Void Linux and DE.vs.WM (by nolinuxguru on 2016-11-01 07:59:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
@72 I agree on Void Linux, and use it on one of my computers. However, I am forced to use XFCE4 Desktop as Openbox lacks Obmenu which makes it usable as a desktop. Having said that, Void represents a significant advance with the xbps package manager, Runit init/daemon manager etc etc. I like where it is going.
76 • Favourite Window Manager (by brain_death on 2016-11-01 12:22:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have no issues with Xfwm, the default window manager for Xfce...
77 • FVWM Crystal : Austrumi / Void Enlightenment (by Lionel Winchester on 2016-11-01 15:31:50 GMT from United States)
FVWM Crystal was left out of the poll.
It is very well implemented in the Austrumi distribution.
Multiple themes to choose from. Run in RAM off of a USB stick.
The hard drive installation would not work in version 3.5.2 (it would only start from a command line entry prompt and then fail to work anyway) but,still worked very well off a USB flash drive. Very fast.
I could not get either of the last 2 Void Linux Enlightenment releases to boot after installation. April 20th,2016 iso + the prior iso. Maybe the next one will be better or maybe I should try the MATE .iso ??
78 • rolling release os (by debianxfce on 2016-11-01 15:36:44 GMT from Finland)
Debian testing Xfce is a stable, easy to use rolling release distribution. Update whatever and when ever you want, Debian packaging system takes care of dependencies. It is hidden here:
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/stretch_di_alpha7/amd64/iso-cd/
Padoka ppa and Oibaf ppa are compatible if you need the latest Mesa drivers. Install nvidia driver from nvidia site Use the Xfce Whisker menu plugin and tune the desktop to your liking.
79 • FaVorite WM (by lain on 2016-11-01 15:54:34 GMT from United States)
Heh, I can't believe that FVWM wasn't included in the poll... it's one of the oldest around. But I still use it to great effect.
I love customizing it(though I admit, it takes up a LOT of my time lol). It's customizability can't be beat: you can basically program the thing. I have it set up to give me a minimal titlebar on the left side, dynamic menus, 'pseudo-tiling', tons of keybinds, and even mouse bindings!
The fact that it barely uses any resources is icing on the cake.
I do also enjoy WindowMaker, and Spectrwm on the tiling side of things.
80 • @70-74 (by Jake on 2016-11-01 17:21:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks for your thoughts. As time goes on, I start to think a DE isn't really necessary. Sometimes I like eye candy and Knoppix attracted me to Linux when KDE looked so familiar. However, I agree with Arch Watcher's rant of why the heck is the system spending so much time indexing, searching, etc., for things I don't want. I learned "chattr +i" and other tricks when /dev/null failed to stop doing that crap.
I have an Openbox setup with keyboard shortcuts for all programs (not a production machine so that's only a few). I used to do that for XP for common programs. I don't do much with spacefm because the machine is for browsing and not files. I like Nemo from Cinnamon but wish I could turn off the gnome crapware that is still there that my workarounds above "fix" (and then give me a complaining popup each session). That machine is very fast and could run anything, but that isn't the point. I bought a fast machine, so I want it to be fast. They are my bits and my cycles; if I want to waste or not waste them, I want that ability to choose.
81 • Void Linux and wm.vs.de (by nolinuxguru on 2016-11-01 17:50:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
@75 correction: Void Linux with Openbox window manager DOES have Obmenu, so my desktop is now setup almost as on Devuan. However, I have to borrow xfce4-{taskmanager,terminal,settings-manager} from XFCE4. I like the way Linux allows this mix-and-match approach.
82 • Favourite window managers (by John on 2016-11-01 20:28:11 GMT from United States)
fvwm2 for me
@79, same here, surprised fvwm was not on the list either. at one time it was the goto window manager on Linux
83 • Boot Manager Systemd Grub etc. (by MoreGee on 2016-11-01 21:17:53 GMT from United States)
I have had to do this many times. Sometimes it is upon first install or after an update. All I do is Boot Puppy and run Grub Update then reboot. Problem solved. But like UEFI this needs to addressed and give users an option to black list this package on install. Used to be the installer would ask what you wanted now you have no choice. Another trick is to install Mint last on a dual boot machine that also works 100 percent of the time.
84 • Bare-bones, WM, DE or not. (by Greg Zeng on 2016-11-02 02:38:21 GMT from Australia)
Very expert Linux troubleshooters can solve all problems with CLI and multiple terminals, with RTFM embedded permanently & very expensively into the expert's brain. CLI-only, will not destroy the costly, expensive learning needed by the true Linux-only "experts". Unfortunately, I prefer the GUI-only world, where RTFM is easily visible, being deliberately designed into GUI-display. Computer-operating-system stuff is not my interest, which is Human-Operating Systems: ergonomics).
Purists like bare-bones, it seems. Fixed, simple tasks. No windows managers, no desktop environments, etc. No indexing. No further expansion, no debugging ever needed again. No upgrades, ever again. These purists are so scared of the extra 0.1 % of any "flab" that might be added to their "perfect" system.
My real world is different. Some "errors" need upgrades, or bigger partitions, or new hardware & software. Simple, inflexible systems do adjust easily to future changes. So many distribution creators, even the big-names, refuse to include partition managers (e.g. gparted), proper application packagers (e.g. synaptic package manager, apt-get, aptitude), yet allow so much junk: Braille, foreign languages, etc.
I do agree: simple users have simple needs. IoT is the plain example. My wife seems to also be simple, until diagnosing the "trouble" in her system. Many Linux systems have simple WM or DE, have only one window as a default. Debugging needs two or more Windows. A full DE (LXDE, XFCE, KDE, ...) easily allow this. Sometimes the solution might be to have only one task per Window, in a DE rather than just a WM.
Eye & Ear candy might seem a luxury to "experts". For fatigued users, these gimmicks might lessen user mistakes. But I forgot. Operating system trouble shooters would loose their jobs & job-skills, if the world was easier for everyone. Linux might not be confined to the two-per-cent elitists on computer desktops,tablets, etc. That would be so very, very terrible.
83 • Boot Manager Systemd Grub etc.
Agreed. Mint and most other Ubuntu-based distributions handle Grub well. Other Linux operating systems really mess the boot process with multiple operating systems.
85 • Favourite window managers @ 59 and 67 (by adamek on 2016-11-02 13:17:27 GMT from United States)
I was thinking what you were asking about DWM.
86 • @ 85 DWM? (by OstroL on 2016-11-02 16:07:51 GMT from Canada)
What is this window manager called DWM? I haven't found this anywhere. Is it a new type of a WM?
87 • dwm window manager (by nolinuxguru on 2016-11-02 17:03:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
@86 "dwm" is the suckless.org window manager. Very frugal. It is available to "apt" users on Debian, etc.
88 • MX Linux as an "independent" distro (by Debian Supporter on 2016-11-02 17:44:21 GMT from Brazil)
Hello, UNIX community! This is the first time I post in DWW. Unfortunately, not to say nice things... So you major geeks have patience and try to help one more n00b struggling to learn a little bit about the intricacies of Linux.
Okay, this is my point-of-view regarding MX Linux:
Just like Mint is seen as a "separate" distro amidst gazillions of Ubuntu respins, I always thought MX Linux should also be considered not exactly an antiX variant, but a mature project with a unique personality. By the way, in my opinion, it's better than LMDE in each and every detail, except for the fact that the Brazilian national keyboard standard (called ABNT2, or "br-abnt2" in the form of a keymap) is WRONGLY implemented, so I cannot type accented vowels. Examples: "é" and "ã", which appear as "'e" and "~a". All non-accented vowels and all remaining symbols appear normal, including "Ç" (C cedilla, uppercase) and "ç" (c cedilla, lowercase).
Following the route of all neo-Latin idioms (Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Romanian, and even French), several non-Latin derivatives (including the nordic lineage of tongues like German, Danish, and Swedish) also have accented vowels. Check, Turkish, and many other European languages that use the Roman alphabet, have their own set of accented vowels. The sad truth is that ALL of them could be implemented by an ONLY keyboard standard, by means of an ONLY keymap, if the IBM engineers weren't so narrow-mind. Of course, a character-page with just 128 hex codes would not be enough to include the whole bunch of symbols the Europeans use to write documents.
As everybody knows, the guys who created the IBM-PC didn't see the need for a "universal" keyboard standard that could encompass anyone of the Western alphabets, both using Roman characters. They didn't even include the "Ç", a letter used in France, Spain, Portugal and Turkey. Thus Linux and the BSDs had to cope with an insanely high quantity of keymaps for an insanely high quantity of national keyboards that use the very same Roman alphabet with some particular group of accented vowels. It makes, for instance, an e-mail from Sweden (thus written in a Swedish keyboard) be read in Brazil with some characters CHANGED by the corresponding symbols in the ABNT2 standard; what doesn't occur if the message is PRINTED in a paper sheet and then sent by snail-mail in the shape of a letter.
In other words: The modern technology of making documents by typing characters in a computer keyboard SUCKS in the sense that it is not standardized enough to avoid such a basic problem as eventually get "wrong symbols" in a mail message or an HTML page from a foreign country. And then, probably because of a mistake in the br-abnt2 keymap, the splendid MX Linux version 15 simply doesn't let me type accented vowels in the Brazilian standard keyboard... Same trouble my father had years ago with a certain version of VectorLinux Standard Gold... What an absurd situation!
Well, it finally made me choose PCLinuxOS LXDE as my multimedia oriented distro. Now testing Scientific Linux (with GNOME2, that I hate) and a couple of other rock-solid, professionally crafted distros that also recognize the ABNT2 keyboard without a glitch. And because I love Debian Stable with XFCE, MX Linux will replace PCLinuxOS LXDE in my PC the day it replaces the apparently flawed br-abnt2 keymap. (Yes, I still wait for an antiX respin which make my keyboard happy
Great job, anticapitalista and friends! Debian community rules the world!
89 • @88 - MX Linux (by Hoos on 2016-11-02 18:05:50 GMT from Singapore)
Re: "mistake in the br-abnt2 keymap"
Have you tried asking for help in the MX Linux forums? They are very helpful and have a great packaging team. Since you say that the package in PCLinuxOS for the ABNT2 keyboard works well, if you explain the problem the team might be able, if at all possible, to import over the relevant PCLOS packages for MX.
You never know unless you ask.
90 • @87 DWM (by geert on 2016-11-02 18:59:46 GMT from Netherlands)
Really?
DWM stands for Desktop Window Manager.
Most of us use it, maybe without knowing they are using it. Strange, no one had found what that is!
91 • @89 - MX Linux (by Debian Supporter on 2016-11-02 20:50:46 GMT from Brazil)
Prior to post in DWW, I did think of entering the MX Linux forums to ask for help. But then I decided to do it in DWW because of the phenomenal popularity of this webpage, which every week aggregates millions of distro-lovers searching for news and reviews.
As I have frequently realized, it seems to be "impossible" not being read when releasing a message hereby due to the fact that distrowatch.com is the world's most relevant website for the entire bunch of Linux communities. (Why bother just one of them when you can bother all of them? :)
By the way, I confess my ignorance: I'm not sure whether the problem exposed in the #88 post is related to the br-abnt2 keymap or to any other part of the MX 15 distro. It's just a dumb assumption... What I can positively affirm is that some distros have a weird, unexpected behavior, especially when running from a live environment. Only for the record: The problem with my Logitech ABNT2 keyboard was verified after I run from an HDD an MX 15 "real install" and also after I run from a pendrive a "frugal install" of the same system (in reality, a "snapshot" of a configured HDD installation taken by means of "MX Snapshot", a script that creates an ISO image of the distro).
Anyway, your advice is perfect. Thanks, Hoos! Maybe I join the MX Linux forum the next time I find a difficulty. My dad could help me because he's a proficient Debian user who knows a lot about CLI, source compilation, and stuff like that, but he said: "Linux is neither for dumb people, nor for lazy bastards. So you have to learn it the hard way. Do your homework. Otherwise, F**K YOU!!!"
Oh, this is my dad...
92 • dwm dual identity (by nolinuxguru on 2016-11-02 20:55:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
@90 the dwm window manager FOR LINUX is described at dwm.suckless.org; there is another DWM used by Microsoft Windows 7 etc [see wikipedia for disambiguation].
93 • MX Linux as an "independent" distro (by Debian Supporter on 2016-11-02 23:16:21 GMT from Brazil)
Hello, UNIX community! This is the first time I post in DWW. Unfortunately, not to say nice things... So you major geeks have patience and try to help one more n00b struggling to learn a little bit about the intricacies of Linux.
Okay, this is my point-of-view regarding MX Linux:
Just like Mint is seen as a "separate" distro amidst gazillions of Ubuntu respins, I always thought MX Linux should also be considered not exactly an antiX variant, but a mature project with a unique personality. By the way, in my opinion, it's better than LMDE in each and every detail, except for the fact that the Brazilian national keyboard standard (called ABNT2, or "br-abnt2" in the form of a keymap) is WRONGLY implemented, so I cannot type accented vowels. Examples: "é" and "ã", which appear as "'e" and "~a". All non-accented vowels and all remaining symbols appear normal, including "Ç" (C cedilla, uppercase) and "ç" (c cedilla, lowercase).
Following the route of all neo-Latin idioms (Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Romanian, and even French), several non-Latin derivatives (including the nordic lineage of tongues like German, Danish, and Swedish) also have accented vowels. Check, Turkish, and many other European languages that use the Roman alphabet, have their own set of accented vowels. The sad truth is that ALL of them could be implemented by an ONLY keyboard standard, by means of an ONLY keymap, if the IBM engineers weren't so narrow-mind. Of course, a character-page with just 128 hex codes would not be enough to include the whole bunch of symbols the Europeans use to write documents.
As everybody knows, the guys who created the IBM-PC didn't see the need for a "universal" keyboard standard that could encompass anyone of the Western alphabets, both using Roman characters. They didn't even include the "Ç", a letter used in France, Spain, Portugal and Turkey. Thus Linux and the BSDs had to cope with an insanely high quantity of keymaps for an insanely high quantity of national keyboards that use the very same Roman alphabet with some particular group of accented vowels. It makes, for instance, an e-mail from Sweden (thus written in a Swedish keyboard) be read in Brazil with some characters CHANGED by the corresponding symbols in the ABNT2 standard; what doesn't occur if the message is PRINTED in a paper sheet and then sent by snail-mail in the shape of a letter.
In other words: The modern technology of making documents by typing characters in a computer keyboard SUCKS in the sense that it is not standardized enough to avoid such a basic problem as eventually get "wrong symbols" in a mail message or an HTML page from a foreign country. And then, probably because of a mistake in the br-abnt2 keymap, the splendid MX Linux version 15 simply doesn't let me type accented vowels in the Brazilian standard keyboard... Same trouble my father had years ago with a certain version of VectorLinux Standard Gold... What an absurd situation!
Well, it finally made me choose PCLinuxOS LXDE as my multimedia oriented distro. Now testing Scientific Linux (with GNOME2, that I hate) and a couple of other rock-solid, professionally crafted distros that also recognize the ABNT2 keyboard without a glitch. And because I love Debian Stable with XFCE, MX Linux will replace PCLinuxOS LXDE in my PC the day it replaces the apparently flawed br-abnt2 keymap. (Yes, I still wait for an antiX respin which make my keyboard happy :)
Great job, anticapitalista and friends! Debian community rules the world!
94 • Favourite window managers (by Nemesis1963 on 2016-11-02 23:18:32 GMT from Europe)
PekWM.
95 • Knoppix 7.7.1 and DIRTY COW DISEASE affects Linux - not scary (by k on 2016-11-03 07:11:18 GMT from Canada)
@ 9 by Greg Zeng and 5 by bigsky
Thank you for interesting and informative comment, Greg.
Relating to the "Dirty Cow Disease", it might be useful for
some to know:
"Version 7.7.1 of KNOPPIX ... uses Linux kernel 4.7.9
(not affected by the "Dirty Cow Bug""
Having quite thoroughly "broken" our sole Linux Mint Debian
Edition 2 installation, I used Debian for downloading, Tails
for verifying signature and ISO, and antiX (contains UNetbootin)
for forming a bootable USB of KNOPPIX 7.7.1.
So, despite bigsky's "sentiment(s)", distro-hopping has served
very vital educational and adaptation functions.
96 • favorite wm (by argent on 2016-11-05 20:55:47 GMT from United States)
Good to see that there are many Wm only fans enjoying the DE-less Linux experience.
Regardless what distribution you use, so many really cool Wm's to pick and choose or just test as I frequently do. Tiling Wm's have my attention and enjoy the similarity of many, while some are an interesting departure from the rest.
A full DE never cut for me, need a minimalist approach to computing and just don't understand the large, bloated attempt of producing a distro. Guess it is really about choice and something for everyone!
97 • wm (by anticapitalista on 2016-11-05 23:08:17 GMT from Greece)
I love window managers and over the years have tested lots of them.
My initial love was fluxbox, but then I came to love IceWM and jwm. All stackers.
It took me months to get used to tilers. Really. It can be quite a conceptual change.
I tried lots of them, some very obscure (for those interested in testing out obscure window managers - give Linux BBQ a try - what they have produced will bow your brains!) before settling on favourites like dwm, wmii, spectrwm, i3.
Then I discovered herbstlutfwm and have been using it on all my boxes/laptops for at least 3 years now.
98 • Dead & dying languages @93 (by Greg Zeng on 2016-11-06 03:03:10 GMT from Australia)
93 •
> "Hello, UNIX community! This is the first time I post in DWW. ...
except for the fact that the Brazilian national keyboard standard (called ABNT2, or "br-abnt2" in the form of a keymap) is WRONGLY implemented, so I cannot type accented vowels. Examples: "é" and "ã", which appear as "'e" and "~a". All non-accented vowels and all remaining symbols appear normal, including "Ç" (C cedilla, uppercase) and "ç" (c cedilla, lowercase). ... "
Welcome, new-comer. This Unix "community" is one of many communities on the internet, but it is the widest publicized, because of its simplicity, ease of use ... for experts in this area. Not Unix, but open-source Unix-based, with some minimal credibility.
At the end of each week, which is in your post here, there are few readers, few responders to the "comments". Dw by design, does not encourage old threads (discussion-topics). No does it encourage threads to last more than just one week.
You do raise many important points: designed disappearance of human languages. Hopefully this might be covered again, in some other internet forum. I'm not sure where however. The topic is at the edge of my interests in cognitive sciences.
99 • uefi's barren, rocky and stormy shore.... (by tom joad on 2016-11-06 03:19:12 GMT from France)
@ 53 and 54...
Big ol' tip of my hat! Both of you pointed out that there are ways around that ugly, stinky pile of misbegotten code called 'uefi.' Again, thanks.
Another pain for me and this uefi stuff is that not all flavors of Linux are uefi capable. And I want access to all of the smorgasbord, not those just those versions who ponied up the money to buy 'their key.' I am a 'hopper' and I wander a bit.
Anywho I did a simple search; 'how to point uefi to grub' and voila!
If it is open source, the answers and the solutions are 'out there.' Just ask.
Number of Comments: 99
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Storm Linux was a Debian-based distribution aimed at server and desktop markets, produced by Stormix Technologies. The company was founded in February 1999 in Vancouver, Canada with the goal of providing tools that Linux needed to compete against Windows NT. It closed in April 2001 after failing to attract capital for continued operation.
Status: Discontinued
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