| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 682, 10 October 2016
Welcome to this year's 41st issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
The KDE project, which develops the Qt-based Plasma desktop environment, turned 20 years old last week. The KDE project has long been known for making a feature-rich and highly customizable desktop environment. In an effort to help users test and preview upcoming features in the Plasma desktop, the KDE neon distribution was created. KDE neon uses Ubuntu LTS releases as a base and features the latest software packages from the KDE project. This week, to celebrate KDE's 20th anniversary, KDE neon is the subject of our Feature Story. We also share a second review this week in which Ivan D. Sanders talks about the latest version of Android-x86. In our News section we discuss an update bug which affects Fedora Workstation users, remind people running FreeBSD of upcoming end-of-life dates, report on HandyLinux dropping English translations and share benchmarks from the LXQt desktop project. Plus we cover the distribution releases of the past week and share the torrents we are seeding. In our Opinion Poll we ask how many of our readers work in information technology fields. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (47MB) and MP3 (34MB) formats
|Feature Story (by Jesse Smith)
KDE neon offers cutting edge Plasma
For people who wish to keep up with the latest developments in KDE software and the Plasma desktop, one way to get a vanilla, cutting edge preview of what is coming out of the KDE project is to run KDE neon. KDE neon is an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution and live DVD featuring the latest KDE Plasma desktop and other KDE community software. Besides the installable DVD image, the project provides a rapidly-evolving software repository with all the latest KDE software. There are two editions of KDE neon, a User edition with stable releases of KDE packages, and the Developer edition which offers cutting edge development packages fresh from the build server.
At the end of September I decided to experiment with the User edition of KDE neon. The download for the User edition is approximately 970MB in size. Booting from the downloaded ISO brings up the Plasma desktop. The wallpaper is a collection of blue, purple and black regions. The application menu, task switcher and system tray sit at the bottom of the screen. The theme is mostly a combination of light grey and dark grey. On the desktop we find a single icon for launching the distribution's system installer.
KDE neon uses the Ubiquity graphical system installer it inherits from Ubuntu. The installer asks us to select our preferred language from a list and then gives us the option of downloading third-party software such as media codecs and Flash. We can also choose to download software updates during the installation process. We are then walked through disk partitioning, selecting our time zone from a map of the world, confirming our keyboard's layout and creating a user account. The installation process is pleasantly straight forward and we can typically take the defaults offered on each page. When the installer finishes setting up our new operating system we can either return to the live desktop or reboot the computer.
Once installed, KDE neon boots to a graphical login screen. Plasma is the only login session available to us and we can sign into the account we created during the installation process. The Plasma desktop looks the same as it did during the live session, but there are no icons on the desktop. We are not greeted by any welcome screen and there are no notifications or other distractions.
Shortly after signing into the Plasma desktop an icon in the system tray subtly indicates there are software updates available to us. Clicking the icon opens a widget which indicates the number of waiting updates and 42 were available the first day I was using KDE neon. At the bottom of the widget is an Update button and clicking the button launches the Discover software manager.
KDE neon 20160915 -- The Discover software manager
(full image size: 325kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
The Discover application features three tabs: Discover, Installed and Update. The Update tab shows us a list of the available software updates in the distribution's repositories. Each update is listed with the package's name, version and size. I found Discover listed every update as having a size of zero bytes. We can check a box next to each update we wish to install. Clicking a button labelled Update causes the selected packages to be downloaded.
The Discover tab is used to browse the available packages in KDE neon's repositories. At the top of the Discover tab is a slide show of featured items. The slide show was choppy on my system and the individual slides appeared to be cropped at odd places or improperly sized. Toward the bottom of the tab we find lists of popular downloads and highly rated applications. A third grouping shows us available software categories. Clicking a category shows us popular downloads and highly rated apps in the selected category. Below these groupings we find an alphabetical list of apps in the category. Clicking an available application brings up a page with a description of the software. On the description page there is a space reserved for a screen shot, but no image was displayed. In the corner of the window is a button we can click to install the selected package. New applications are installed in the background while we continue to browse the Discover tab.
The Installed tab shows a list of installed desktop applications in alphabetical order. Each application entry includes a brief description and an icon. The size of the installed package is featured too, but the size is always displayed as zero bytes. We can click a button next to each entry to remove it from our system.
KDE neon 20160915 -- Empty list of installed applications
(full image size: 170kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
KDE neon pulls in most of its software from the Ubuntu 16.04 repositories, but the distribution also features its own repositories for KDE related software. I found I did not particularly like using Discover. While the interface is fairly easy to navigate, the Discover tab is quite busy, especially with the slide show running at the top of the page. The software manager was generally slow to respond to input and did not calculate package sizes properly. Toward the end of my week with the distribution I noticed packages no longer showed up in the Installed tab, making it impossible to remove unwanted applications through Discover. We can use the command line apt-get utility to work around this issue and deal with low-level packages.
One of the prominent features of the Plasma desktop is the System Settings panel. This panel provides many modules for changing the desktop's look, layout and behaviour. Some modules will help us adjust Plasma's search features, power management and window behaviour. The KDE Connect software for communicating with Android devices is featured too. System Settings has a search feature which I find useful for digging through Plasma's many options.
KDE neon 20160915 -- The System Settings configuration panel
(full image size: 305kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
While most of Plasma's settings modules worked well, I did run into a few minor problems. One module crashed while I was adjusting window manager settings and another refused to save my changes the first time I used it, forcing me to close System Settings and try again. I also failed to find a screensaver configuration option. There are screen locking settings, but I did not find a built-in module for changing screensaver settings.
KDE neon ships with a fairly minimal collection of desktop software. The Firefox web browser with Flash support is included. We also have access to the VLC multimedia player, the Ark archive manager and the KWrite text editor. The Spectacle screen shot utility is featured along with the Gwenview image viewer. The Dolphin file manager is present along with a hardware information browser and the KSysGuard system monitor. The Konsole virtual terminal is available along with the KWalletManager password manager. KDE neon ships with codecs for playing most media files. I found Network Manager is available to help us get on-line. The distribution ships with systemd 229 and version 4.4.0 of the Linux kernel.
While the distribution does not include a lot of desktop software, we have access to many thousands of packages via the Ubuntu repositories. This allows us to install image editors, productivity software, compilers and just about any other utility we might want to use.
KDE neon 20160915 -- The application menu
(full image size: 421kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
I tried running KDE neon in two environments, a VirtualBox virtual machine and on a desktop computer. The distribution, despite having a small collection of desktop software, uses about 3.5GB of disk space, but required a relatively small amount of memory - 340MB of RAM. By default, KDE neon does not integrate with VirtualBox and its screen resolution is limited. However, VirtualBox guest modules are available in the distribution's software repositories and installing them enabled the use of full screen resolution. When running on the desktop machine, I noticed my monitor would switch on and off a few times during the boot process. However, once up and running, the distribution ran smoothly on the desktop computer. In both environments, the Plasma desktop was responsive and the operating system was stable. I did run into a few application crashes, but the underlying system presented me with no problems during my trial.
While using KDE neon I made some miscellaneous observations which I will share here in no particular order. First, the software on the system appears to be built using Qt 5.7, putting us fairly close to the cutting edge of Qt and KDE technology.
Plasma's Info Centre is quite useful for finding information about memory usage, hardware, Wayland and X display software. Info Centre can also be used to toggle file indexing on and off. File indexing and search functions can be fine-tuned through the System Settings panel.
The terminal font in Konsole was quite small (9.0pt) by default. This can be adjusted in Konsole's profile editor. When I first started using KDE neon I found the default theme with its grey colouring looked washed out and I switched to a different theme. Later, I noticed Konsole's font has been reset back to its original 9pt size. It seems theme changes may override individual application settings.
One day I booted and signed into the distribution and found the wallpaper had disappeared. in its place I had a plain, black background. I was able to go into the desktop settings and restore the wallpaper. At the same time I noticed the settings widget which usually sits quietly in the corner of the desktop was rapidly flashing and flicking the word "Default". Moving the widget to a different corner of the screen caused it to stop flickering.
KDE neon 20160915 -- Default desktop theme and icons
(full image size: 233kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
With the default theme the bottom panel and application menu were opaque and a soft grey colour. It was straight forward to switch to a higher contrast theme. However, once I changed themes, the panel and menu became transparent. I looked around for a way to turn the desktop panel opaque again, but could not find a way to do this in either its settings or the theme settings.
Most Plasma applications feature a Help option in their menu which will open a manual. Selecting this option opens the Firefox web browser and presents us with the application's on-line manual. Most applications do properly display their on-line help pages, but it seems some manuals have not yet been written. For example, the KWalletManager application did not have an on-line manual at the time of writing.
The KDE neon distribution is an interesting way to see what new technologies are coming out of the KDE project. The combination of a stable base, as provided by Ubuntu LTS releases, and the cutting edge KDE software makes for a convenient way to try out the latest versions of Plasma. The distribution is fairly minimal in the software it supplies, basically giving us just the Plasma desktop and a few important utilities.
I think it is pretty clear KDE neon is not intended to be used as a day-to-day desktop distribution. While it is an easy way to see what the KDE team is creating, the system does not have many features or applications. The Plasma desktop is not tweaked or polished in the same way it would be if we were running KaOS or openSUSE so what we get is quite vanilla. This might appeal to some people, but I tend to prefer customized flavours of Plasma that have been dressed up.
KDE neon shows us Plasma in progress, meaning there are rough edges. There were a few crashes and minor problems for me to deal with during this experiment. None of the issues was really deal breaking, but there were the rough edges one gets from running development software. If you are interested in the latest changes in the KDE project, then this distribution is an easy way to see what is coming out of the developers' computers.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
|Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith)
Fedora warns of update bug, FreeBSD reminds users of EoL dates, HandyLinux drops English support and LXQt benchmarks
Adam Williamson has posted an informative advisory letting Fedora users know there is a bug in the Fedora Workstation update mechanism which can cause the desktop and the active update procedure to crash while the DNF package manager is updating software. This can result in data loss and corruption of the RPM package database. "Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically what happened, and it sounds a lot like what's happening is that something in the 'dnf update' process can cause a GNOME or X crash, possibly depending on hardware or package set installed. When that happens, the update process is killed and does not complete cleanly, which is why you get 'duplicated packages' and other odd results." Further investigation has revealed that some specific hardware configurations, when coupled with a service being restarted during a package update, can trigger the bug. It is recommended Fedora users either run package updates from a text console or via off-line updates to avoid desktop crashes.
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Xin Li of the FreeBSD team sent out an e-mail on October 3rd to remind people that multiple branches of the FreeBSD operating system will be reaching their end of supported life later this year. "Dear FreeBSD community, At 23:59 UTC, December 31, 2016, FreeBSD 9.3, 10.1 and 10.2 will reach end-of-life and will no longer be supported by the FreeBSD Security Officers Team. Users of FreeBSD 9.3, 10.1 and 10.2 are strongly encouraged to upgrade to a newer release as soon as possible." People still using the affected versions of FreeBSD can upgrade to 10.3 or 11.0. A support schedule is available on the FreeBSD website.
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HandyLinux is a distribution designed with Linux beginners in mind. The project is based in France and primarily offers French language support, though English translations have been available. Unfortunately, the project has had to drop English language support for future versions due to lack of contributors and interest in maintaining the translations. The project's announcement suggests that people who run HandyLinux and want English language support may wish to transition to Debian after HandyLinux 2.x reaches its end of life in May of 2018.
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When the LXDE project decided to merge with Razor-qt to create the Qt-based LXQt desktop environment, some people were concerned about the direction of the project. In particular, some people raised concerns over the amount of memory the new Qt-based desktop would consume compared to the GTK-based LXDE environment. The LXDE blog has some memory consumption figures which explore how LXQt compares to LXDE, Xfce, GNOME and Cinnamon. "It has always been rumoured that Qt is bloated so programs written in Qt should be bloated. Some even argued that the LXDE developers made a wrong decision on the migration to LXQt. Why not replace the assumptions with some experiments? In fact, LXQt 0.11 even uses slightly less memory than Xfce (with GTK+ 2). After cold boot, LXQt uses 112MB in the testing environment." Information on the testing environment used and the results can be found in the LXDE project's blog post.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
|Distribution Review (by Ivan D. Sanders)
Android-x86 6.0 review - not there yet
Android-x86 version 6.0 is the newest version of the Linux distribution released on September 13, 2016. Android-x86 is based on Android (yes, the popular mobile operating system) 6.0, also known as Marshmallow. The Android-x86's goal is, "To provide complete solution for Android on Eee PC platforms first and then to provide solutions for common x86 platforms as well."
Common x86 platforms include Intel's Core (including i3, i5, and i7), Xeon, Pentium, Atom, and virtually all their modern CPUs. AMD also makes x86 CPUs, specifically the Athlon, Sempron and Opteron lines.
What does this mean? Android-x86 aims to bring Android to basically all current PCs and CPUs. Does Android-x86 complete that goal with their 6.0 version?
Very first impressions
The Android-x86 ISO is only 671MB and is available from their website. They do not provide a torrent version to download from their website. I was able to put the ISO on a USB drive for use very simply with Ubuntu's provided Startup Disk Utility. I left plenty of space available on my system (100 GB of storage) just for this test and I formatted it ahead of time with the ext4 file system (in my case the partition was /dev/sda6).
I rebooted my computer and the USB read perfectly. I booted immediately to the Android-x86 installation and started the installation process. I was taken aback slightly with what I saw next.
The Android-x86 installation process is simple. It is reminiscent of a PacBang, ArchBang, or other architect style installation with the blue screen and simple options to select. No GUI is present, but using the arrow keys, Enter, and Escape is the next best thing. I sent the installation to /dev/sda6 and completed the process with no issues. It updated my GRUB boot loader and even my rEFInd had no problem automatically detecting the new OS upon reboot.
Android-x86's welcome and setup
Android-x86 6.0 -- Browsing available apps
(full image size: 558kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
I wasn't phased by the installation, but I was happy to be out of there and on to a more modern interface, and it is beautiful. The setup asked if I wanted to copy my current Android device's setup to my computer. Thankfully, I use a modern Android phone, so yes, why not? That sounds great! I followed the directions and interacted with my phone a little (the process required Bluetooth on the phone and the computer), and, poof, I was up and running.
And it was great. My GMail account was setup; my calendar, Play Store, all these settings were imported from my phone. My computer knew me. Opening the Play Store gave me the option to download what apps I wanted from my current Google account. It was seamless, like getting a new phone. So easy and modern.
Android-x86, the next big thing?
At this early point in my Android-x86 experiment, my mind was blowing up with possibilities. Is this going to be the next big thing? Is this the perfect desktop that can compete with Apple's OS X/macOS and finally destroy the Windows phone for good? Think of the possibilities! Is this an Android experience that can run Android apps and a Linux desktop environment?
But this euphoria did not last long. Android is not a Linux desktop environment. Android-x86 brings Android to personal computers, and it delivers the Android environment, but it stops there. It is Android and the development team seems to want it to remain Android.
Android-x86 6.0 -- System notifications
(full image size: 2.0MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Let's explore Android-x86 a little more. Install apps from the Play Store and they go to the second screen. To get back to the first screen simply use your touchscreen like your phone and swipe back, or you can use two fingers on your touchpad to swipe back. Either that or a click on the mouse and a drag to the side will also change screens.
What works great? Maps works great, as do GMail and Calendar. I had no problems with other basic Android/Google apps.
I installed Amazon Prime Music, Amazon Underground to get the Amazon Instant Video app (you have to allow third party software to install the .apk from Amazon Underground), Netflix, a couple of the most popular games, etc. Prime music worked great. Pandora worked great. Amazon video and Netflix? This is where my errors started.
Android-x86 6.0 -- Switching between tasks
(full image size: 2.2MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Nothing actually worked after install, but after a restart the games worked, and they were cool! I have never had so much fun playing Angry Birds than on my computer, weirdly enough. Games that require you to move your phone (accelerometer) for moving, steering, and leaning, do not work well on the computer (unless you happen to have an accelerometer on your computer). Android-x86 on your computer is the equivalent of using your Android phone sideways, the way you would probably watch videos. This means that games and apps without landscape support do not work well, unless you want to turn your screen (or in my case, laptop). If your game plays with the phone aligned vertically only, it is not good for this environment.
Android-x86 6.0 -- Dealing with screen orientation
(full image size: 429kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Netflix did not work initially but worked after a restart. I could play videos and watch movies at my leisure through the Netflix app on my computer! A Netflix package is not available on other distros, and would be kind of cool (although Netflix does work through Chrome on desktop Linux). The same is true for Amazon Prime Music. There is no app for that on other distros, but it worked great on Android-x86, so that impressed me. If there is someone who can port that to a regular Linux distro, please get it done! Amazon music does not work through any browser or app on other Linux distros currently. If you want to watch content on Android-x86, you can use Netflix, YouTube, or perhaps some other network (CBS, ABC, CW) apps. Amazon video did not work through the app or through any browser, although it did play a commercial for me in the app, so I felt like it was very close. When I tried to take a screen shot of a movie on Netflix, Android-x86 identified that I was watching Netflix and would not allow me to do so (I suppose due to copyright issues).
Android-x86 6.0 -- Browsing Netflix
(full image size: 932kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Getting a little deeper
HDMI worked flawlessly, but it just replicated my screen. Using the Alt key and pressing an arrow will take you to the tty2 terminal, background command line interface, where you can play around a bit. GNU's make program is not installed, nor is sudo. Also, you are the root user by default. On Android (the ARM version) there is a solution for make called Terminal IDE, available through the Play Store. It has a number of other cool uses too. Terminal IDE did install from the Play Store, but it is not intended for x86 platforms and cannot use the app's subsystem. This means I was unable to make install or compile other Linux software (I really wanted to try to get a full version of Steam running and test games... silly me).
Android-x86 6.0 -- Browsing the file system
(full image size: 95kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
I thought that since this is Android, maybe it would interact with my Android phone through USB in some cool way, but I was wrong. I could not get my phone to interact with Android-x86 through the USB other than charging (remember, initial setup was done using Bluetooth).
Do you want to edit documents using Android-x86? There are some free apps for this, but after trying most of them I definitely recommend the Google Docs app.
Android-x86 is pretty cool. The setup process blew my mind and was very easy. But after that, it failed to woo me. I think I was expecting a Linux distro and Android, which this is not. This is Android for your computer. There were a lot of errors along the way, but it was fun to explore. This distro is not for the everyday desktop Linux user. In my opinion it still feels like a beta, as not everything worked as I wanted it to. Also, there is not a ton of documentation or support through a community or forum.
Android-x86 6.0 -- Encountering an error
(full image size: 76kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
I would say that if you are a die-hard Android user, or a developer, Android-x86 may be for you. Otherwise, stick the some of the more popular distros. As a side note, this may be good for kids, but it may also prove frustrating for them when things do not work as they do on mobile Android. One more note: Android-x86 Marshmallow was released after Android released Nougat so there is a delay in getting new releases.
Memory (RAM) Android-x86 used from my machine at rest after boot-up:
Used: 1,854MB, Free: 8,025MB, Total 9,880MB
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Summary of hardware used for this review:
- ASUS ZenBook UX302LA-BHI5T08
- Intel Core i5-4200u CPU @ 1.60GHz (Haswell)
- Micron/Crucial M500 480GB 2.5-inch SATA III MLC (6.0Gb/s) Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
- Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4400
- 10 GB (1x 2 GB, 1x 8 GB) DDR3 RAM
- Intel Wireless-AC 7260
Bittorrent is a great way to transfer large files, particularly open source operating system images, from one place to another. Most bittorrent clients recover from dropped connections automatically, check the integrity of files and can re-download corrupted bits of data without starting a download over from scratch. These characteristics make bittorrent well suited for distributing open source operating systems, particularly to regions where Internet connections are slow or unstable.
Many Linux and BSD projects offer bittorrent as a download option, partly for the reasons listed above and partly because bittorrent's peer-to-peer nature takes some of the strain off the project's servers. However, some projects do not offer bittorrent as a download option. There can be several reasons for excluding bittorrent as an option. Some projects do not have enough time or volunteers, some may be restricted by their web host provider's terms of service. Whatever the reason, the lack of a bittorrent option puts more strain on a distribution's bandwidth and may prevent some people from downloading their preferred open source operating system.
With this in mind, DistroWatch plans to give back to the open source community by hosting and seeding bittorrent files. For now, we are hosting a small number of distribution torrents, listed below. The list of torrents offered will be updated each week and we invite readers to e-mail us with suggestions as to which distributions we should be hosting. When you message us, please place the word "Torrent" in the subject line, make sure to include a link to the ISO file you want us to seed. To help us maintain and grow this free service, please consider making a donation.
The table below provides a list of torrents we currently host. If you do not currently have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found here. All torrents we make available here are also listed on the very useful Linux Tracker website. Thanks to Linux Tracker we are able to share the following torrent statistics.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 244
- Total data uploaded: 45.3TB
|Released Last Week
NixOS is an independent Linux distribution which features the Nix package manager. Nix provides many special package management features, including declarative statements, snapshots and package rollbacks. The latest version of the distribution, NixOS 16.09, offers many new security features and more efficient use of disk space. "In addition to numerous new and upgraded packages, this release has the following highlights: Many NixOS configurations and Nix packages now use significantly less disk space, thanks to the extensive work on closure size reduction. For example, the closure size of a minimal NixOS container went down from ~424 MiB in 16.03 to ~212 MiB in 16.09, while the closure size of Firefox went from ~651 MiB to ~259 MiB. To improve security, packages are now built using various hardening features. See the Nixpkgs manual for more information. Support for PXE netboot. See Section 2.3, 'Booting from the "netboot" media (PXE)' for documentation. X.org server 1.18. If you use the ati_unfree driver, 1.17 is still used due to an ABI incompatibility. This release is based on Glibc 2.24, GCC 5.4.0 and systemd 231. The default Linux kernel remains 4.4." Further details and a list of new supported services can be found in the project's release notes.
KDE neon 5.8
Hot on the heals of KDE's Plasma Desktop 5.8, released yesterday, comes a new version of KDE neon, a fast-evolving Ubuntu-based distribution built by KDE and Kubuntu developer Jonathan Riddell: "The KDE neon builders have been firing away this afternoon and Plasma 5.8 LTS is now available in the User edition archive. If you don't already have KDE neon installed you can grab the latest User edition ISO image to install it on your hard disk. A feature I've been wanting for ages in KDE is the ability to install plugins from within the application. This was made more urgent when we added Gwenview in KDE neon and had to choose between either an empty Plugins menu or adding a dependency on Kipi Plugins which brought in Konqueror and several KDElibs 4 tools. So I got round to coding the feature based on discussions I'd had previously and work on the Samba browser in Dolphin I'd done before." Continue to the release announcement for more information and screenshots, and see also the Plasma 5.8 announcement for a detailed list of new features and more screenshots.
KDE neon 5.8 -- Running the Plasma 5.8 desktop
(full image size: 830kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Superb Mini Server 2.0.9
A new build of Superb Mini Server (SMS), version 2.0.9, has been released. This new version of the Slackware-based distribution for servers, brings a new Linux kernel and upgrades to most server packages, while leaving the base system unchanged. "Superb Mini Server version 2.0.9 released (Linux kernel 4.4.22). This release brings upgrades to server packages and the latest LTS kernel branch, version 4.4.22. Server packages upgrade include Postfix 3.0.7, Samba 4.5.0, Dovecot 2.2.25, BIND 9.10.4-P3 and MySQL 5.5.52. We still keep Apache httpd 2.2.31 as our default web server, but we moved to PHP 5.6.26 since PHPMyAdmin needed it. Besides, PHP 5.4 has reached end-of-life so mind the new /etc/httpd/php.ini if you are upgrading. Most likely inn our next release we will switch to Apache httpd 2.4 as our default web server, so you better look for migration tips. Apache httpd 2.4 is in the testing repository for those who have switched already. This release also brings support for the Let's Encrypt certificates." Here is the full release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
Do you work in an information technology field?
Linux initially gained a lot of its following from software developers and system administrators. This has given rise to the stereotype which suggests people who use Linux or one of the BSDs tend to work in technology fields.
This week we would like to put that idea to the test and find out how many of our readers work in IT and related fields.
You can see the results of our previous poll on favourite BSD flavours here. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
Do you work in an information technology field?
|I am a local software/application developer: ||184 (10%)|
| I am a system administrator: ||240 (13%)|
| I am a database administrator: ||27 (1%)|
| I work in DevOps: ||45 (2%)|
| I am a web developer: ||72 (4%)|
| I am a network administrator: ||56 (3%)|
| I work in another IT field: ||284 (15%)|
| I do not work in an IT field: ||962 (51%)|
Distributions added to waiting list
- Subgraph OS. Subgraph OS is a security-focused operating system. Subgraph OS integrates with the Tor network for anonymous web browsing and offers encrypted chat and e-mail features.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 17 October 2016. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Neon and IT (by brad on 2016-10-10 00:26:13 GMT from United States) |
I had many of the similar issues as Jesse, during my (short) time with Neon. I came to the same conclusion.
I *used* to work in IT, back in the day - now, I'm just a greybeard having fun...
2 • Poll (by Pikolo on 2016-10-10 00:54:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
I can't believe cybersecurity is missing from the options. I marked "other IT" and I'm fairly sure most people marking it will be from a similar background
3 • KDE Neon (by snowdust on 2016-10-10 01:04:12 GMT from Canada)
I downloaded the latest release (October 4th). I did not experience the issues Jesse had. Au contraire, the distro is very responsive, fast and customizable. I used Synaptic to install/uninstall software apps. I even selected and downloaded the BareNaked theme making the panel totally transparent. No problems switching desktop wallpapers. To summarize, it is fun to play with this distro. Your mileage may vary.
4 • IT (by mcellius on 2016-10-10 03:45:22 GMT from United States)
Like Brad (@1) I used to work in IT (systems administrator, network administrator, cybersecurity, management), but back then I worked mostly with Windows. Now I run my own home network, none of it on Windows but all on Linux.
5 • IT (by Semiarticulate on 2016-10-10 04:21:55 GMT from Canada)
I actually began using Linux before I became involved in IT. Using it at home gave me a huge leg up when I got pulled into administering a small business network.
6 • Neon 5.8 and KDE's Plasma 5.8 (by Bobbie Sellers on 2016-10-10 04:37:43 GMT from United States)
This falls short of the low end goals of the Features list.
No KWin seen.
Discover simply is a waste of time and could not give me my
primary text processor, Kate, If I did get Kate I am pretty sure
that the plugins I want to see would be there. They are not
there in PCLinuxOS 2016.07 which of course is only a preview
of what may come.
There are lots of downloads I have made to see what the
latest Version of KDE's Plasma looks like and what it has
to offer. So far I am disappointed in the extreme.
If i have to leave KDE 's Plasma behind I will be unhappy
but I will use another PCLinux OS and run my 2016.03
with KDE's Plasma 4.14.8 in a Virtual Box.
7 • neon (by mes on 2016-10-10 05:10:18 GMT from Netherlands)
I use neon on my desktop. It works for me. I like the minimal approach. So I can choose the applications that I want.
I tried kubuntu and mint 18 kde but they did not work as expected on my pc. Both crashed regularly. Neon just works!!
The black screen has occurred only one time in the last month.
I do not like the discover application. I also use synaptic.
Neon has trouble noticing that there are updates available on my pc. When I use discover I have to type Ctrl-R to look for updates. Then updates are found and (mostly) can be installed. I do nit use discover anymore Now I update in the terminal or I use synaptic.
The shutdown time is very long but this can easily be fixed.
8 • IT Survey (by Chris on 2016-10-10 05:52:19 GMT from United States)
This is one survey where I wish there was an option to select multiple choices since I work in a combination of Network and Systems administration with a smidgen of DevOps in the mix.
9 • Opinion Poll (by Kurt on 2016-10-10 06:10:16 GMT from Australia)
I just had to choose "work in another IT field" seeing as I'm employed as a tradesman in the original Information Technology field (AKA operate a multi-colour printing press).
10 • Android-x86 6.0 review - not there yet (by k on 2016-10-10 06:48:30 GMT from Costa Rica)
@Ivan D. Sanders
" interacted with my phone a little ..., and, poof, ... My computer knew me."
How controlled (secure) is that? What did you mean by "a little"? "My GMail account was setup; my calendar, Play Store, all these settings were imported from my phone." That is a "great" deal of "data" it "poof" captured from your phone.
11 • Service Technician (by prifici on 2016-10-10 08:23:48 GMT from Australia)
I'm a service technician with a speciality in data recovery. I'm also the only guy running Linux in my workshop. Everyone else loves their Windows 10.
12 • KDE Neon @ Jessie (by Lennie on 2016-10-10 08:55:47 GMT from Canada)
>At the end of September I decided to experiment with the User edition of KDE neon.<
Well, I suppose Jessie should read Distrowatch's front page sometime. There is a new release on 5th October with KDE 5.8. Your review is TOO old!
13 • @ Ivan Sanders (by Alex on 2016-10-10 09:04:33 GMT from Germany)
>Android-x86 6.0 review - not there yet<
In a way an interesting review. But, Android for x86 is great work by a dedicated experimentator. And because of him, we have an Android created for PC, which work for in the PC not like an phone distro. So, we can say it is there already.
Otherwise, let's challenge anyone else to create such a distro, even you Ivan. Its easy to criticize, but terribly hard to make.
14 • KDE Neon (by Lennie on 2016-10-10 09:11:14 GMT from Canada)
I have KDE Neon installed in a Linux only box, which had been upgraded to Ubuntu 16.10 base, and another dual booting in UEFI laptop with the 16.04 base. Both working very well.
The one with 16.10 base had been upgraded to the latest KDE.
15 • Strange... (by Silv on 2016-10-10 09:23:56 GMT from United States)
Its pretty funny to see a old distro reviewed, while the new distro is announced in the middle of the DWW page. The new distro has a new wallpaper, while the one reviewed still has the old wallpaper. It seems that Neon dev (and other devs of other distros) are releasing distros faster than the watcher.
16 • RPM DB corruptions & DWW... (by Vukota... on 2016-10-10 09:42:06 GMT from Montenegro)
Nothing new, I recall I had those RPM corruptions in the past with Fedora and it reminded me that it was one of the reasons I do not currently use Fedora (doesn't mean its bad, but these kind of bugs throws you off worse than when the single package is broken). I didn't have similar experiences (in recent years) with other distributions related to package management (RPM or not).
Related to the poll, I don't think it matters much what kind of IT role you do, it is more of a question whether you are in the IT field or not (geek or not :-)).
About Android-x86 review, I am surprised that the OS was not tested in a VM as it may be valid test environment for the Androdi apk development, though 2GB of RAM to start is a bit steep price.
17 • KDE Neon (by marame on 2016-10-10 09:57:06 GMT from Finland)
Yes, there is a lot experimental in Neon and a lot tweakin'. Works pretty good afterwards. One big headache is Muon including Discover. It has not worked in all versions and distros I have tried. In Neon it claimed that my software was up to date and update popup said 279 packages to update and both were wrong (over 330 updates in apt update). I purged Muon and Discover and installed Synaptic and everything is OK
18 • The Poll? (by geert on 2016-10-10 10:00:22 GMT from Netherlands)
Do you work in an information technology field?
A person working in a IT field wouldn't look in here, would he? The guy would have an opinionated view on his/her IT field. This weekly info web site is for non geeks like us, even though the info given here is somewhat old for the week starting on a Monday.
19 • Poll: shock, horror - 55% (so far) non-IT (by Sondar on 2016-10-10 10:21:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
So, it's not the IT crowd pushing Linux any longer? Just well-informed, hacked-off with 'doze, fed-up with being hacked relentlessly, suspicious of data-mining, individuals working on their home PCs and, hopefully, promulgating the good news?! But thanks to that IT contingent for giving us the option - we appreciate you.
20 • Qbittorrent and containers for Android (by Miguel Mayol Tur on 2016-10-10 10:28:50 GMT from Spain)
1.- Why yo do not recommend Qbittorrent too?, it is for me by far the best torrent client and the only one with a great integrated search.
2.-Why there are not a project (or mentions or wishes) to run Android X86 in a container as it is going to be run in ChromeOS? And or a chroot project as Crouton runs (only in developer mode, porbably because marketing reasons) inside Chrome OS
21 • Android x86-6.0 review @ Sanders (by Alex on 2016-10-10 10:32:19 GMT from Germany)
>As a side note, this may be good for kids, but it may also prove frustrating for them when things do not work as they do on mobile Android.<
Kids coming here? Really?!
This is a project to show that Android can be made to run on PCs. It also gave a start for another Android for PC with PC like work. The developer of this works with the other project. If you read carefully, http://www.android-x86.org, you'd be directed to the other distro. Review that.
22 • Neon and Maui (by Bernie Victor on 2016-10-10 10:45:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you want to use the latest plasma 5, you should try Maui, which is based on Neon, but has most of the bugs solved and has a good selection of applications. It comes from the same stable as used to put out Netrunner. I've used it for a week and have not had any major issues.
23 • @22 (by Alex on 2016-10-10 10:51:05 GMT from Germany)
Netrunner was never a popular distro, for it had its own bugs. Anyway, you can install any extra app yourself. No, its better to stay with pure KDE Neon.
24 • Android x86 (by curious on 2016-10-10 11:48:07 GMT from Germany)
What I'd really like to know is whether this distro makes turning off all the tracking/spyware ingredients that constantly phone home easier than standard Android does? On a phone that is a very tedious procedure.
If not, Android for PCs had better remain an experiment. The Google cancer already infiltrates everyone's computing far too much.
25 • KDE Neon (by Ash on 2016-10-10 12:13:43 GMT from Latvia)
Stable core and bleeding edge app`s so it is fixed distro or however it is semi-rolling distro?
26 • KDE neon timing (by Jesse on 2016-10-10 13:30:58 GMT from Canada)
>> "Well, I suppose Jessie should read Distrowatch's front page sometime. There is a new release on 5th October with KDE 5.8. Your review is TOO old!"
I'd like to point out two things with regards to the timing. One is that KDE neon releases new images every week. Any review that covers more than the installer is likely to be of the previous snapshot. There just isn't any way for a reviewer to keep up with a semi-rolling release with weekly snapshots. Second, I spend a week with any distro I review so for me to have reviewed a distro released four days ago would require time travel on my part. And my skills just are not that diverse.
27 • Do you work in an information technology field? (by bassplayer69 on 2016-10-10 13:34:27 GMT from United States)
I picked other as being a Software Engineering Manager for a software company as I didn't see an option for management positions.
28 • Running Linux software under Android (by K.U. on 2016-10-10 14:09:15 GMT from Finland)
There are multiple Android apps for installing a Linux system (Debian/Ubuntu/etc) which runs in parallel with Android. I assume most of these apps are for ARM devices - I am not sure if any of these run in an x86 system.
As an example, see this one:
29 • poll (by Jordan on 2016-10-10 14:16:30 GMT from United States)
Good to see no Systems Analyst from The Onion among the choices. :D
30 • Local software/application developer (by bison on 2016-10-10 14:19:57 GMT from United States)
> I am a local software/application developer
I do not understand "local" in this context. Local as opposed to... what?
31 • KDE Neon (by Roy Stefanussen on 2016-10-10 14:47:29 GMT from United States)
My laptop has a partition dedicated to Neon, and I find myself using it most of the time. Bugs come and go, but it does very well for basic use.
A long awaited feature, now available, is the ability to turn off scroll wheel application switching on the task manager. That in itself is a reason for me to keep it.
32 • LxQt memory footprint (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-10 14:48:29 GMT from Austria)
So per this link: https://blog.lxde.org/?p=1364
LxQt uses less memory relative to XFCE4. How does it matter? The comparison should clearly highlight LxQt vs its predecessor - LXDE. That's what matters! In that sense, Qt is still more "bloated" than Gtk. XFCE4 is heavier than LXDE and LxQt for other reasons, not related to Gtk.
I understand that LxQt is not a mere translation of LXDE to the Qt world of drawing/depicting things on the screen. Let's emphasize that a bit. However, it's still fairly buggy across GNU/Linux distributions and I don't see it being a replacement for the aging LXDE in the nearest future. What I think would be worth exploring is LXDE based on Gtk3 libraries. Not trivial either, but a direct "upgrade" nevertheless.
33 • Running Linux software under Android (by K.U. on 2016-10-10 15:05:50 GMT from Finland)
Now, I noticed that the Linux Deploy app runs on x86 systems in addition to ARM. Therefore, it should be possible to run Linux apps under Android-x86.
34 • Poll Question (by cykodrone on 2016-10-10 15:37:12 GMT from United States)
I voted 'other' because I'm a freelance nerd for many people, from phones to complicated home theater.
The Fedora bug is really something, oops. :)
Sad to see Handy lost English.
35 • 26 • KDE neon timing @Jessie (by Lennie on 2016-10-10 16:06:19 GMT from Canada)
>There just isn't any way for a reviewer to keep up with a semi-rolling release with weekly snapshots. <
Update your install every few days. Distrowatch too tries to update every week, only it is bit late with the news, and reviews.
36 • Kde Neon (by Lennie on 2016-10-10 16:42:05 GMT from Canada)
>More than ever people expect a stable desktop with cutting-edge features, all in a package which is easy to use and ready to make their own.
KDE neon is the intersection of these needs using a stable Ubuntu long-term release as its core, packaging the hottest software fresh from the KDE Community ovens. Compute knowing you have a solid foundation and enjoy the features you experience in the world's most customisable desktop.
You should use KDE neon if you want the latest and greatest from the KDE community but the safety and stability of a Long Term Support release. When you don't want to worry about strange core mechanics and just get things done with the latest features. When you want your computer as your tool, something that belongs to you, that you can trust and that delivers day after day, week after week, year after year. Here it is: now get stuff done.<
I am copying the first words from KDE Neon.The base is stable and LTS, so not rolling semi or otherwise. Only the KDE apps are getting hot all the time. And, the guy who is doing it is the guy once did Kubuntu.
37 • KDE Neon (by Tran Older on 2016-10-10 16:49:00 GMT from Vietnam)
1. The look and feel of KDE Neon 5.8 in comparision with that of 5.7.4 is very impressive.
2. Discover is still the Achilles' heel of KDE Neon. I personally prefer elementary OS AppCenter (both are based on appstream). So I remove Discover, add elementary OS repository and install AppCenter. I know Jonathan Riddell won't be happy :-) but Firefox is also not a KDE app. An update of the Rekonq browser will be highly appreciated.
3. Issues regarding connectivity with iPhones and Windows Phones as mentioned in Dedoimedo review of KDE 5.7 have not been solved.
38 • Poll (by Martin on 2016-10-10 20:47:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
I would just like to comment in regard of the poll, that I used to be part time employed in the IT industry, but am no longer, therefore I voted that I do not work in IT.
However, it was my involvement in IT that sparked an interest in Linux and that has endured ever since!
39 • QT, GTK confusion ... Please? (by Greg Zeng on 2016-10-11 09:17:06 GMT from Australia)
@32 • LxQt memory footprint is about "LXQt on my Raspberry Pi" from the url. On many Linux distributions, we usually do not use the Raspberry Pi CPU, with its tight memory contraints.
Instead we are offered applications or Linux operating systems in either GTK, QT or both. For non-coders like myself, which should I choose, and when?
40 • Poll (by jymm on 2016-10-11 11:20:21 GMT from United States)
I am one of those non tech users. 60 years old, never had a computer until 1998. Liked 98, and XP, suffered through Vista, was okay with Win7 and finally went to Linux over Win8 and 10. I rarely and barely use the command line. Mostly just to update and upgrade. I just go tired of updating virus and spyware software and the long and intrusive Windows updates. Love Linux but have no desire to become an expert or work in IT. Just one of those elusive general Desktop users. Stick to Debian (Ubuntu) based distros.
41 • linux running Android apk (by mkingsley on 2016-10-11 12:22:29 GMT from United States)
You mentioned someone porting netflix (and other similar apps) to a traditional linux distro. One option to look into would be Shashlik ( www.shashlik.io ) in all fairness, I have not tried it, but the compatibility layer looks intruiging.
42 • Info Tech poll (by Jordan on 2016-10-11 14:03:11 GMT from United States)
I wish I had more incentive to get into IT, but I don't so I just use the fruits of others labors on that field. I do pay, as in contribute money and bug/error reports to many distros.
Like so many here I went through the Windows gamut, while, since '96, always having a linux distro to mess around with.
Linux took over right around the Windows ME release. I was aghast that this big company was wringing the necks of computer users and emptying their wallets while they were at it. Got mad. Looked for "the perfect distro," and ended up with a tie between Manjaro and Korora, both with strong pedigrees.
43 • Android for PC (by Lennie on 2016-10-12 07:29:52 GMT from Canada)
I tried the other distro found in http://www.android-x86.org, not the one advertised prominantly there, not the one reviewed here at Distrowatch, but cm-x86-13.0-rc1, the CyanogenMod release for PC.
Quite a different experience.
Went further and read the CyanogenMod wiki. An excerpt from there, "So to be clear-- today, your Android devices are in fact very similar to your laptop and desktop computers. Because they are now based on so-called SoCs, or "systems on a chip", modern Android devices are effectively tiny, low-power laptops, only with touch screens instead of keyboards. CyanogenMod, based on Android, is a full-fledged operating system, just like Windows, OS X, or Linux are on laptop computers. In fact, Android runs on a version of the Linux kernel, and you can even run a full Linux desktop on many Android devices just as you would on a regular laptop."
Distrowatch had reviewed Android x86 for PC in this issue, maybe it would review the other two?
44 • RE: QT, GTK confusion ... Please? (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-12 10:02:50 GMT from Austria)
If you have good enough hardware (4 GB RAM, at least Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz and a decent graphics card) and you don't run too many programs at once, you're safe to use KDE if you like the shine and mainstream experience :). However, when choosing between Qt and Gtk remember that:
a) it's mostly about the looks. Qt-based GUIs can look like Gtk-based GUIs if you want them to or if you have the themes/skins that do that. Contrary is also true. There are Qt-like Gtk themes/skins out there.
b) Across various application choices, there are graphical interfaces to almost everything. You can listen to music, watch videos, game, etc. with programs that use either Gtk or Qt.
In terms of resource limitations, when you use both types of graphical libraries, you obviously need both of them. In addition, there is Qt4 and Qt5 (legacy Qt3 not so much anymore), and Gtk2 and Gtk3. I'm more of a Gtk-purist so I tend to use applications with Gtk-based GUIs. That way I don't have to install Qt libraries on my system and I save some drive space. It's very case and taste specific, though. You might like Qt-based applications more ;).
45 • @ 42 Jordan (by OstroL on 2016-10-12 14:44:14 GMT from Canada)
I also got mad at Windows few times, from the 3.1 days to Win7. Dropped it completely at Win7. I was using Linux before and stayed on. But with Win8.1, I looked closely at Windows. Now I am with Win10. I still use Linux, but the experience is getting stale. I want Linux distros to work in a touch screen environment and no dev is trying, maybe except Ubuntu with its Unity8 and Android for PC distros.
Actually, I never bought Windows at any time, so never gave a penny to the big company, not even with Win8.1 or Win10. But after using Win10, maybe I'd pay a nominal sum, but not what that company is asking. Its been pretty stable for a MS product. Talking about MS products, I think the best product they ever produced was Office 2000. Btw, you can buy i3, i5 or even i7 laptops from warehouses at 30-40% of original price. They become a problem for the dealer/seller and are sold in bulk to warehouse sellers. So, why not try a practically free rolling distro, even if it is a MS product?
46 • @ huge lot of Android or Win10 support posts (by curious on 2016-10-12 14:57:39 GMT from Germany)
Do you not value your privacy?
47 • Linux touch-screens @42 (by brad on 2016-10-12 15:24:25 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint (since version 17) also supports touch screens. I now use Manjaro, and haven't checked lately, but I'd be surprised if touch screen is *not* supported. I'll check it out when I get home.
I also use Win10, but not as a primary DE, just to see what they are up to. The only thing I would use it for would be to access iTunes, if I ever started using that POS again. Inkscape, darktable and Gimp are more that adequate for my image manipulation needs; never found a need to pay for Photoshop.
48 • Staleness (by brad on 2016-10-12 17:51:06 GMT from United States)
@45 (BTW, my previous comment was meant to address yours...)
I do agree, though, about the perceived staleness of Linux. That's the big reason I stopped using Mint as my primary distro - LM17 was still using a version of Linux kernel 3.X, long after many distros had moved to 4.X. Yes, I had a "stable" environment, but one that was also not taking advantage of the efficiency improvements in kernel 4.X. Manjaro has removed most of the staleness, while retaining most of the stability. LM 18 has made improvements in kernel management, and I am using it as my "backup" distro, in case something goes terribly wrong with Manjaro.
49 • @45, 48 (by Jake on 2016-10-12 18:29:29 GMT from United States)
I've felt the same thing with LM and Debian distributions. I started using Arch and found that gparted offered several partition flags that were critical for my new application that didn't exist in the older version.
At the same time, I can argue that WinXP does everything I need it to do (from an OS perspective) and that some people want to treat an OS like an app or a game in terms of how "entertainment." That was my one of my early realizations when I was trying this new "Linux" on different CDs: the OS is a means to something, not the destination. If you want it to be the destination, then what you really want are applications/widgets that do different things, and most distros you can make into that if you're willing to customize it (if you're not, then you look for someone who's done it for you).
For me, it depends on the application. For my desktop, I need updates because of security reasons (and some bugs I suppose). For my RPi media center, I could care less about updates. In fact, I ignore them unless I'm really having a problem. I want my device to remain the same for X years, and without being on the net, I don't care about "fixes" that also may "break/change" the UI from my perspective. I don't want change for the sake of change (at least from my perspective; other people may find the changes necessary). I think that is why there was such resistance to Win10 and over-aggressive marketing on it. I think Office 2003 is the ultimate in that series, and every time I get mad at ribbons or the like, I ask myself what has MS Office really given me since 2003? (FYI, I run MS Office for work; I keep my LibreOffice at home and much prefer it.)
50 • @ 48 and 49 (by OstroL on 2016-10-12 19:40:07 GMT from Canada)
To play a game, we need two sides, but we;d only clap for one side and whistle or jeer at the other side. Even though we are fans of one side we can't play with our own side, but need the opposite side for the game.
By saying we don't use, or don't want to use Windows, we only have one side, but don't know what the other side do. Some say, they uninstalled Windows as soon as they bought the laptop, or some others say, you'd never find a Windows computer in their homes, but all of them know enough to have an opinion about the other OS.
I too for more than 6 years didn't look at Win7, considering everything MS is bad. I forgot that to know the taste one must taste the food. And, the problem of tasting food is you might like the taste.
51 • @50 - seeking the truth (by brad on 2016-10-12 21:13:34 GMT from United States)
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. This principle is, contempt prior to examination.”
- Rev. William H. Poole
I've been guilty of this myself, when it comes to all things Windows. I still investigate Win10 as much as I can.
BTW, for anyone who's interested, Manjaro Xfce, KDE, Cinnamon, and Budgie DE's all respond to touch screen gestures. I'm assuming that this is true for other distros, as well.
52 • Windows vs Linux (by bushpilot on 2016-10-13 01:28:36 GMT from Canada)
Let us not forget that windows xp was a very powerful and successful OS. The primary reason that I went to a Linux OS was that windows was pitiful as a high resolution music playback source.
Debian Linux has been, and continues to be my favourite OS for music and word processing. Windows 10 is good, but in my opinion, a far less an OS than Linux. However, Linux if it gets too successful, may become a money maker that determines it's demise, as a OS, leaving all of us without the freedom to choose.
Food for thought?
53 • Troll Cave (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-10-13 02:39:48 GMT from United States)
One could imagine paid trolls posting for MS. It's a classic ploy: open your mind like a reasonable chap, here is my goo. The fallacy is false choice, agreement or insult. The world is bigger than that.
1. Nobody escapes from "tasting" Windows. It's everywhere in the workplace and the world at large. Even embedded devices use DOS/Windows.
2. Nobody here has contempt prior to examination. MS has been known for decades. A big reason for FOSS movements is MS. Even consumers know about "forced upgrades" for Windows 10. Go teach MS tasting philosophy. Remember anti-Linux campaigns? Now they've had to back off and "be friendly" like a fox.
3. I have advocated on DW for compatibility distros like ReactOS.org to replace ¢ommercial $pyware. Why do Windowz Boyz not advocate such alternatives? Haven't you "tasted" yet? Have you stopped beating your spouse? What about the dog?
54 • What's an OS? (by OstroL on 2016-10-13 07:25:10 GMT from Canada)
OS must stay underneath (out of the way) and let the user do what s/he wants with the apps. Its also better if there are enough apps to use in/with that OS. If you have to find out ways to use an app in an OS half the time, then try to use that app not in its full capacity, then we are in trouble.
I use KDE Neon lately, maybe because of its shine, maybe because its using Ubuntu LTS as the base. Only, I'd use this distro to work with apps that work in Linux. I have no interest in using Wine to try to work on a windows only app, even if that app is useful. Talking about apps, Acrobat reader works better in a Linux environment than in a windows environment. Scanning is better in a Linux environment. But office writing is horrible in Libreoffice.
55 • Office Politics (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-10-13 08:41:30 GMT from United States)
WINEHQ.org lists 4356 "platinum" apps "which install and run flawlessly on an out-of-the-box Wine installation." The "gold" list adds 3764 which "work flawlessly with some special configuration." goo.gl/w4qkVw
The dying days of default MS hegemony are here. The company will now have to ... compete. People use LO Writer for all kinds of good stuff, btw.
goo.gl/FBAEE goo.gl/5iqKjw goo.gl/3IXevn goo.gl/ndoxDN goo.gl/rlNL7N
56 • @43 Lennie (Cyanogenmod for x86) (by Elcaset on 2016-10-13 10:00:54 GMT from United States)
Lennie, Thanks for letting us know about Cyanogenmod for x86. I will be trying it out. I'm looking forward to seeing what Cyanogenmod is like without rooting my phone.
57 • Kanotix Spitfire 2016 (by John on 2016-10-13 13:11:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Looking for a fast, stable and comprehensive LXDE-based OS I came across Kanotix Spitfire released in January this year.
Installed it and very pleased. it's a keeper. After two weeks not a single bug or frustration. It's based on Debian Jessie - so I don't know how they got compiz to work so well with it, since it has been depreciated in the latest Debian stable release - but it does.
Is there some reason why this latest release from Germany was not listed in the Distrowatch list of releases? Or was it just an oversight?
(I have no connection with the Kanotix team whatsoever - so this isn't some sneaky plug. They are admirably unboastful.)
58 • @ 55 and @ 56 (by Lennie on 2016-10-13 13:40:41 GMT from Canada)
Wine won't catchup. The existence of Wine advertises that there are highly needed apps in Windows, which we cannot make for Linux. Also, at the beginning, the Wine project appeared to be a noble-minded work, but doesn't appear to be now.
What you cannot get with Wine is sort of given through proprietary Crossover. And, the Wine maintainer is earning through Crossover. It is not a problem for a Linux dev to earn from his work, but doing it surreptitiously through another app is bit questionable. It is also strange that Crossover given free only to Chinese, even though Codeweaver company is based in the US.
59 • Marketing (by Somewhat Reticent on 2016-10-13 17:25:58 GMT from United States)
After exhausting the mainstream (Windows/Mac) market (aka skimming the cream), squeeze a few more revenues by selling to a few Linux-users. This applies to old hardware ¿got drivers? as well as old software. Use FOSS like Wine or PlayOn (and point to them for support to avoid related costs?); offer a free trial.
The existence of Wine (and PlayOn) shows that Proprietary support is still substantial ¿more than Freed OSS support?, and provides more robust market platforms.
See also: BDFL, freeware, shareware.
[Lennie] Codeweaver Crossover (Mac or Linux) offers a free 14-day trial - is that what you mean?
60 • @53 (by Jake on 2016-10-13 18:50:35 GMT from United States)
I agree with you. In fact, I used to not like Microsoft stuff because they were Microsoft until I learned about all the backwards compatibility that they did and how hard it is to do computing well with "stupid" users. After that, I started giving credit to Microsoft where it is due. I moved to Linux because they killed XP, and I didn't want to go through forced upgrades. Linux seemed to offer me more stability and choice, and it was free. I can upgrade when I want. I can stay in the dark ages if I want and still have some level of security patches.
That is only one reason--for my needs, Linux makes sense as the primary OS. I keep Windows in a VM and use Wine when I need to (although I've cut that down by just looking at the Linux landscape more, and adjusting my habits). I agree with earlier comments about needing tax software in Linux. But I have a Windows set up just for that that seems to work.
My anti-Win10 feeling is the spyware and telemetry. If that could truly be shut off, I might consider it for a primary OS. But for now, Linux gives me what I need without all that, and I get better performance on lower-end machines that I have. I'd much rather have Bunsen Labs or Archbang on an under-spec'd laptop than Win10 (or Win7) because of the resources it takes and all the extras (e.g., AV, other tools) that I am forced to put on top. If I could live in a (more secure) XP world, I would have just stayed there. I'm happy for choice, and right now, I like Linux best.
61 • @ 59 (by Lennie on 2016-10-13 18:51:20 GMT from Canada)
Codeweaver is giving Crossover for free to the Chinese, while demanding pay per month from other Linux users. (If Mac users have to pay, that's not our interest.) Wine is sort of not complete, while Crossover "appears" to have something more.
There is a way to give this crossover app free to every Linux user, whether Codeweavers like it or not. But, yes there is a BUT, why should a Linux user use Windows apps at all in a Linux environment?
62 • Windows apps (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-13 20:45:20 GMT from Austria)
"There is a way to give this crossover app free to every Linux user, whether Codeweavers like it or not. But, yes there is a BUT, why should a Linux user use Windows apps at all in a Linux environment?"
I use WINE for older Windows games. Some, like Civilization II or Warzone 2100 got ported to Unices, but many will never be. That's how WINE fills the gap for me :).
63 • @62 Windows apps (by Alex on 2016-10-13 22:15:19 GMT from Germany)
The question is, why do you want to play Windows games, older ones or not, if you don't like the OS, or the people, who created it? Shouldn't we be consequent? Either we use an OS and apps in that, or we don't use them at all.
Using Wine means we still like that OS and apps created for that, but cheat ourselves using them in a Linux environment. The existence of Wine means, the apps made for that hated OS is loved by us. If you don't like that OS, you shouldn't use apps made for that OS. There is no middle way.
64 • Fedora 25, best thing since sliced bread ? (by Andre Gompel on 2016-10-13 22:20:44 GMT from United States)
Fedora 25, best thing since sliced bread ?
Perhaps not, but I do like the simplicity, reliability and also the latest packages software developments.
Where Ubuntu (and derivative like MINT) focus on usability (user's friendliness), with great success, Fedora took somewhat the bag of system (low level) robustness and stability.
So far the fedora developers were very frugal and paid little effort to the Desktop.
Fortunately the latest MATE and LxQt are making Fedora a bit sexier.
Until Fedora 24, the usual complaint was that it did not "out of the box" for NVIDIA(video) or Broadcom (Now Qualcom) chips, it had to be done manually (easier with time though).
The other is that so many developers stopped all together to create RPM packages, and on occasions (the "cloud" developers) only Debian ( *.deb) packages are available.
The emerging "Snap" packages, if successful may "finally" unify Unix / Linux...
I am not holding my breath but that would be a great thing !
"RUST" (iron + Oxygen!) : the relatively new system low level language seems to gather lots of momentum.
Tools are not yet mature, but fast developments in this area are very promising.
The venerable "C" is now almost 40 years old, still very good, but RUST may bring some freshness at the system low level.
I have only played with RUST, but is the debugger (GDB) supports RUST, ideally with JTAG ( ELF, DWARF info), and ARM, it may be a real winner.
I admit disliking the syntax, but if the language keeps its promises, the syntax is tolerable... and could be enhanced with time.
65 • Playing catchup (by geert on 2016-10-13 22:23:57 GMT from Netherlands)
>>Ubuntu 16.10 previews Canonical’s device convergence vision. Unity 8 developer preview includes apps that scale from phone to desktop, from mouse to touch screen, setting a precedent for the next wave of Linux devices.<<
The other Linux distros would have to play catchup. But, would they ever come this far as Ubuntu?
66 • Fedora & other Linux thoughts (by M.Z. on 2016-10-13 23:01:47 GMT from United States)
Well having used Fedora XFCE for a few months now on an old 32 bit desktop I can't say I'm all that surprised by a failure in some GUI software, though the desktop failing completely is fairly bad. Honestly the command line is so much more reliable in my Fedora XFCE setup that all I ever do to upgrade things is go to the command line & use DNF. Being as it's the main thing I use the command line for all I have to do is hit the up arrows a few times & put in my password, so it was easy to hit 'Ctrl Alt F2' & drop to the command line to do my upgrades this week. Still, this kind of thing is one of the problems that keeps Fedora from being desktop friendly.
"LxQt uses less memory relative to XFCE4. How does it matter?"
Isn't it obvious? there are multiple projects competing in the space of fairly light GTK based desktops (MATE & XFCE), & it makes good sense to have a similar Qt based one. As the blog post mentions, there are more features in the new Qt based replacement for LXDE, so a bit more weight is to be expected, but still being lighter than XFCE & gaining a minimal amount of extra RAM use are good goals for the new LxQt project. Most desktops seem to be gaining both features & weight over time, but LxQt is trying to strike a balance & retain many of the essential characters of it's predecessor as the new project moves forward. It may still be early in development, but the new project is meeting those goals. I would also point out that if there was much about the character of the old LXDE that the new LxQt drops, then the void can be filled with a fork, much the way the Cinnamon & MATE filled the void when Gnome went off the deep end with version 3.
"Linux if it gets too successful, may become a money maker that determines it's demise, as a OS, leaving all of us without the freedom to choose."
No! That is _Not_ how Free & Open Source Software released under the GPL license works. You might be able to argue that it has happened with the Mac/iOS versions of BSD, but then again the original FreeBSD that Mac is mostly based on is still there being developed & released under the same BSD license despite the fact that Apple has been so successful in making a closed source BSD. That is about as bad as someone could do to an open project, because after a closed version of a BSD licensed project pops up someone could fork the older code that was still BSD licensed.
On the other hand GPL software is totally different & must be made available to the users of the GPL software under the GPL license. That basically means that if you fork Linux & sell it your users will be able to give away copies of your new version as long as the strip out logos & such.
The prime examples of this are Red Hat Enterprise Linux & Android, both of which are immensely successful & profitable versions of Linux. Does this mean that the source code goes away? No! You can get a copy of CentOS (which is virtually identical to RHEL) or even use copies of Android like the one reviewed in DW this week, both for free. Part of this may be because Red Hat & Google are willing to play ball & be part of the Linux community, but part of it is because under the GPL license anyone who buys their software has the right to get a copy of the code & redistribute & or modify it at will. If anyone has any reason to want enhancements made in a copy GPL software to end up in a free community based copy of the software all they have to do is buy the software & donate a copy of the source code. This means you effectively can't close the source code of any GPL software in any serious way at all & GPL software can always have a community of free users around it.
TL;DR - no it isn't 'food for thought', you just don't get how the Open Source License of Linux works at all.
"Nobody here has contempt prior to examination"
I'm a bit dubious on that give how arguments over systemd tend to go, but then I dislike the systemd haters far more than I care for sytemd. That being said there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of MS.
67 • Mr 66 Stepped In It Again (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-10-14 01:47:28 GMT from United States)
You guys ignored the use case I advocated: Windows-compatible Linux to wean average consumers off the platform. Compatibility helps transition; run your current apps on your familiar desktop with your familiar menus and your current disk files. That's exactly why MS itself deploys legacy compatibility in Windows, to keep customers. We need to WIN customers with it.
You can say WINE is behind like a mantra but I call FUD. WINE has more apps going, as I showed numerically, than many Linux distros do IN LINUX. Count them. You're just waving hands in the air.
Gamers have a set of performance/compatibility needs all their own. Gaming is a niche and over-represented among nerds, who flock to DW. I suggest gamers keep a dedicated Windows PC. Most do.
@66 As I've explained before (go look), my contempt for System D- came long after the examination. I used it with other lemmings chasing distro leadership and had no opinion. Then it hosed multiple machines multiple times, and I wrote my own units. I looked into its design and thought for myself. That behavior meets no approval in distros parroting Lennart's ad hominems. I mean, it's so very obvious that we're mental, you know? Haters! How can we possibly be objective, not to worship RedTeamBlackHat product?
We're supposed to march lockstep with our brains turned off and not observe the evidence before us of our own machines getting borked by redteam blackware. The System D- lovers for whom I have zero respect have never written a single unit file and could not explain target dependencies to save their lives.
68 • @63 (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-14 06:46:36 GMT from Austria)
"The question is, why do you want to play Windows games, older ones or not, if you don't like the OS, or the people, who created it? Shouldn't we be consequent? Either we use an OS and apps in that, or we don't use them at all."
You're throwing all of those apples into one basket, mate. Some are rotten, some are not, mind you! I don't fancy Windows as a platform much, because it's inflexible and dumbed down ad infinitum. However, there is a number of great old games like Monkey Island, Age of Empires (yes, made by Microsoft, I know), etc. which deserve some praise. Why should I hate them? They could've been written for any platform, but it so happens that Windows IS the go-to OS for gaming.
What init do you use on a day to day basis then? One of the alternative supervisors (runit,s6,nosh, etc.)? I'm asking, because I'm out of the lemming rush as of late as well.
69 • @67 (by adamek on 2016-10-14 07:11:41 GMT from Canada)
"Windows-compatible Linux to wean average consumers off the platform."
Why should there be a Windows-compatible Linux? It should be Linux and Linux only. Either create apps that would work in Linux, or use those must-have apps in the OS platform they are created for.
"WINE has more apps going..."
Why should anyone, who wants to be a pure Linux user need to use apps created for Windows? Wine actually help Windows, by simply existing as an app that would allow Linux users to think of Windows. So those thoughts never ever leave the Linux user. And, also to show that such apps are superior to any created for Linux.
If you are a dedicated Linux user, you don't need Wine, period!
70 • @69 Fundamentalism? (by curious on 2016-10-14 08:12:53 GMT from Germany)
Why should anyone want to be a "pure" Linux user?
Most people don't choose an OS as a religion, they either use what they got with the hardware, or what they consider the best tool for the job.
"Purity" is therefore irrelevant.
71 • examination vs FUD (by M.Z. on 2016-10-14 08:17:18 GMT from United States)
Not really interested in your particular case, just the general trend I see of people saying nutty things like 'this GPL software will make Linux proprietary' etc. If you have legit reasons not to like systemd that's fine & it's why I'm glad that there are still choices when it comes to such things. The real point of the statement was that there are people that seem far more interested in throwing FUD against a piece of the Linux ecosystem that they don't like by using crazy conspiracy theories rather than saying 'I had problems & need another option'. Of course if you keep projecting your own issues into larger points with out considering the big picture then you'll continue to 'step in it'.
I'd also say I've been using the version of systemd packaged with Mageia for over a year now & only ever had a few minor issues that were all fixed with a system reset. I did find systemd to have those minor if annoying flaws (a tiny number of annoying system checks followed by a very laggey desktop), so it's neither great nor the end of Linux as we know it from my perspective. It should just be an interchangeable part that can be substituted for other options in most cases, not an existential threat. I do think Debian dropped the ball to some extent by not trying to offer more choice in how things were setup in their distro, but other options remain, so if you have problems you can still switch distros.
72 • RE: examination vs FUD (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-14 09:18:57 GMT from Austria)
"(...)It should just be an interchangeable part that can be substituted for other options in most cases, not an existential threat.(...)"
Then make it so. Please, tell the systemd project to stop putting itself in the center as the single provider of key system functionalities like dbus or udev. Then, the problem will disappear. Most things Linux are modular, per the GNU/Linux understanding of UNIX system design. Apart from systemd that wants to Be There and expects everyone and everything to tag along. Do you know how hard it is already to "substitute for other options in most cases"? No trivial task 'tis.
Debian dropped the ball, because back then it was the only viable option for them. Neither of the other init systems provided good enough benefits to cut ties with the System V conundrum. I agree, though. Other options exist, even in Debian itself.
73 • @69, 70, 71, 72 (by Alex on 2016-10-14 10:15:03 GMT from Canada)
So, we don't need Wine, do we?
We can use Linux apps in Linux, Windows apps in Windows. So, no need to favour one OS platform against another?
74 • @73 (by Andy Mender on 2016-10-14 11:16:53 GMT from Austria)
"So, we don't need Wine, do we?
We can use Linux apps in Linux, Windows apps in Windows. So, no need to favour one OS platform against another?"
Well, every platform has its place. One size doesn't fit all, no matter how we look at it. We do need WINE, though, because it covers an important niche - running apps we need/like without using a dedicated platform. Same goes for the less popular Cygwin. Of course, one could virtualize the OS in question. Either approach is valid, I think.
75 • @67, 72 (by Justin on 2016-10-14 14:34:17 GMT from United States)
Replacing systemd is not easy nor straightforward. For a new, unfamiliar user with other init systems, it is very daunting because the documentation that used to explain sysvinit and other stuff disappears (I'm looking at you Arch, whom I'm starting to adore, but really, where did all the great earlier documentation go?).
I run Arch with OpenRC. I wish I could donate to the team that maintains it because I know it is work, and I love having it. For me, I care about raw speed and performance. Every time I benchmark a systemd distro with an openrc one, the openrc one wins (the tests are most meaningful when the same distro offers both options like Archbang, but you can do other comparisons with older versions of Debian).
@Why WINE: I agree with @68: the games were developed on a DOS/Windows platform, just like games were developed for SNES or lots of older computer systems that run on emulators now. MS didn't put Civilization in DOS, Sid Meier did. Good for him; he has all that money now by reaching the most people at the time. I also agree that WINE doesn't promote Windows but helps with transitions. I used Firefox, VLC, and other cross-platform apps on Windows intentionally to help myself migrate myself to Linux one day if I wanted to. Should I feel bad I didn't use IE and WMP during those years? I did, but then they also didn't have the features I wanted, so I looked for something else. I made a conscious choice to pick something Linux-compatible, and it totally paid off when I finally made the move. I used WINE for a while as a crutch, and I was glad to have it. It makes it easier to convince others to move because sometimes it IS that one app that's holding them hostage.
Does anyone feel bad about using cygwin or tools like that trying to bring GNU tools to Windows? It's the same thing, but in reverse. These are just platforms, and if I can use tools from multiple platforms, then I'm happy. Yes, I'm going to favor native ports and be very happy to find the Linux way to do things, but hey, life is short, and if I can have some compatibility, great! It gives me something to do while I wait for that better Linux version anyway.
76 • Wine...Crossover (by Lennie on 2016-10-14 16:40:37 GMT from Canada)
Well guys, should the so-called enhanced Crossover be given to the Chinese free, while all other Linux users are asked to pay per month?
Mind you, Crossover is a cover for Wine dev.
77 • Crossover (by Qihoo on 2016-10-14 20:10:39 GMT from United States)
Where can someone get crossover free from china? Where are the links?
78 • @77 (by Lennie on 2016-10-14 21:29:20 GMT from Canada)
It is available just under your nose, right here. Once you find it, you'd have to use some Linux knowledge to pick it out for your Linux distro.
I'm not interested in Wine or crossover. I feel this Wine and crossover are there to prove Windows apps must be (or should be) used in a Linux environment. It is not a gift, but a curse.
79 • @70 (by bigsky on 2016-10-14 23:09:49 GMT from Romania)
@70 I'm not to sure how you tie in pure and religion in relation to Linux but it's a big world out there and purity has a different meaning for everyone. Some think Microsoft is not pure and I agree.
80 • @79 (by Doug on 2016-10-15 00:41:28 GMT from United States)
I believe "pure" is referring to someone who does not use any propietary drivers for there devices.
Trisquel linux would be a "pure" distro.
And some people get rather religious(fanatical) about it.
Some of us just want to get stuff done or play that game.
And if Wine/Crossover is necessary to do that, so be it.
81 • @80 (by bigsky on 2016-10-15 05:05:23 GMT from France)
@80 Plausible but yet unlikely. I am a purist and wonder why not dual boot for pleasure or just use a dedicated box for the sake of being a gamer. I don't use Linux for anything but research and that's all as I may be in a different demographic and that's the beauty here. The options are endless. No one should ever complain when it's free. Yet I do send my small donations to my favorite distro every 6 months as a matter of showing my faith. To each his own reasons I guess. Thanks
82 • Distrowatch readers are not typical (computer users). (by Greg Zeng on 2016-10-15 07:25:35 GMT from Australia)
"Computers" are rapidly changing. Today's smartphone is more powerful than the supercomputers of last century. youtube.com/watch?v=3MYhhO_nSAk "5 Mind Blowing Facts About Your Smartphone!"
Canonical, Microsoft, Apple & Google are very aware of these facts. WINE & Crossover are needed for Apple & Linux, because so many end-user applications are only offered for Windows XP. Some professional tools are only in EXE or MSI executing files: graphics, video, genealogy, medicine, engineering, science, mathematics, linguistics, etc.
In my experiences with computer utilities, Linux has yet to develop reliable, flexible & capable utilities. Speech recognition & speech control, NTFS-partition check-repairs, and GUI-utilities (instead of CLI tedium).
83 • @ 80, 81, 82 and others (by Lennie on 2016-10-15 09:02:42 GMT from Canada)
Why not dual boot for pleasure and play the games (or use other apps) in that OS platform, rather than using Wine (or its proprietary wing crossover) do the same thing in a worse usage situation?
Wine and crossover is made (or maintained as the guys maintain) the same guy, while Wine is free as Linux goes, but crossover is not free for normal Linux users--you are asked to pay per month--but quite free the Chinese.
84 • Purist (by Doug on 2016-10-15 13:25:39 GMT from United States)
@81 Could you define "purist" for us?
@77 Check out Deepin Linux. It is pre-installed.
85 • @84 (by Lennie on 2016-10-15 15:28:43 GMT from Canada)
Now all you have to do is to find out how to "port" it to other Linux distros. Little bit of digging would show you the way.
Deepin is one of the Chinese distros crossover is given free, the other Chinese distro is only for the Chinese.
86 • use for WINE (by M.Z. on 2016-10-15 18:55:39 GMT from United States)
"Why not dual boot..."
I for one don't have very many computers that came with any sort of decent/recent copy of Windows on it. Half the PCs I have are fairly old second hand 32-bit things that I got for free & if they had an OS I didn't consider that old version of Windows remotely useful so I wiped everything & installed Linux (or in one case pfSense/BSD). I really didn't see the use in having some old unmaintained version of Windows on most of my PCs, and while my laptop is newer it never had anything on it but Linux. In addition my main desktop have a copy of Vista that I just plain don't want to boot into ever. There was some problem with some Windows updates at some point & I never got around to figuring out how to resolve the issue because I only cared about the copy of PCLOS that dual boots with Vista. Given the near monopoly status of MS Windows & the general attitude of MS for most of the time I've used PCs I don't care to feed the beast that is MS by buying a copy of Windows for either my desktop or my laptop.
At any rate because of a combination of cost & personal preference I don't really have access to any good copies of Windows, nor do I care to get access to one at home. I still have a fair amount of old PC games that I could easily use, though I tend to ignore them & use things in the repos. I could easily go the other way though & start using WINE/Play on Linux more & I'm glad I have the option to do so. For a fair amount of time when I was younger I spent a decent amount of my money on PC games & while I've lost interest in paid games I think WINE & related programs still open up a lot of possibilities to get more value out of all those old copies games I spent so much time & money on. While I only ran WINE for a few games & haven't used it lately I see still real value in WINE as a project & I'm glad I have the option to use it & I'm sure lots of people in situations similar to mine are as well. Of course there are people pay good money for crossover & if there is a market for it then there is no need to justify the existence of such projects because money speaks louder than words.
87 • @74 (by Jordan on 2016-10-15 18:59:54 GMT from United States)
"..every platform has its place. One size doesn't fit all, no matter how we look at it."
Thinking back to the time when that notion was considered blasphemy by more linux purists than now. Things have changed and I think it may be because Windows improved and so did the crossover apps for linux.
That may have weaned some back to seeing Windows as "good for something," when before that it was just thought of as a big pile of expensive compost with a near monopoly on the home computer world (the business world as well, Mac notwithstanding).
88 • @86 (by Lennie on 2016-10-15 21:21:10 GMT from Canada)
"Of course there are people pay good money for crossover & if there is a market for it then there is no need to justify the existence of such projects because money speaks louder than words."
Maybe,because they are not Chinese or maybe because they are fools to pay money. Looking at what Wine and its cousin is doing, it appears that MS must be funding them secretly. What Wine is doing is trying to prove that MS apps are better and they should be used in the Linux environment.
89 • @88 BINGO (by bigsky on 2016-10-15 22:44:33 GMT from France)
@88 BINGO at least someone understands what the hell is going on. Good call.
90 • WINE Conspiracy Theory (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2016-10-16 01:22:30 GMT from United States)
@88 @89 That's the most bizarre conspiracy theory I've ever heard. If MS wants Windows apps on Linux, there are faster ways to make it happen with less harmful results to corporate control. MS source code is extremely compartmented within MS offices, nobody has it all in one place. MS is extremely keen on controlling that code and the access rights to it. WINE is a cleanroom effort.
I don't think anyone can refute that there are more Windows apps and users than Linux apps and users. Call it legacy inertia. It's got nothing to do with quality issues, really.
Crossover may be commercial but still proves my point that such a distro is (a) possible and (b) wanted. Roll another one for free. I guess Play on Linux counts.
(Administrivia - Jesse, check e-discards from yesterday, was my post lost? Thanks.)
91 • @88, 89, 90 and others... (by Alex on 2016-10-16 09:29:08 GMT from Canada)
At the beginning, we welcomed Wine. We thought it gave us an app to use Windows apps. At that time Linux distros didn't have much apps, but today we have enough (and better) apps in the Linux world. Now, we don't have to think that Windows apps are better than apps we have for Linux.
When we find out that Wine making another app, sort of an enhanced app for the same action, and ask us the Linux users to pay for it per month, but give it away to the Chinese free, the bell starts ringing. To use Windows apps in Linux you have to start paying. Taking money for apps is the standard MS way.
So, it appears that crossover (and Wine) is the 5th column in the Linux world.
If the apps don't work in the Linux world, most probably they are not needed. And, if you really want to use Windows apps, then do it in that platform. By using or trying to use Windows apps in a Linux environment, we are actually trying to hurt Linux.
In our Linux world, we have thousands of really excellent apps. Even, the gaming companies are coming to the Linux world. Looking at Android, we can see how much can be achieved in a Linux environment.
92 • More FUD (by M.Z. on 2016-10-16 15:18:41 GMT from United States)
5th column? Because they offered to sell you a paid version is some markets? That's paranoid FUD. Can't people try to make money off a paid subscription model of open software without it being a giant conspiracy? The source code is still there & you still have the free versions with Wine & Play on Linux much like you have the free components of RHEL with Fedora & CentOS. It's also the case that the open code in Wine gets reused in other open source projects, especially in ReactOS. I think the fact that the code is shared & reused speaks volumes more than paranoid FUD attacks against GPL software. Also CrossOver is designed be be compatible with Mac, so there are plenty of questions about the main revenue source really is. Mac users may well be a bigger financial boon than Linux users to the CrossOver project, so what exactly will this conspiracy to affect Linux do to profit the so called conspirators?
Also if you know anything about the policy of MS in China, then CrossOver giving away stuff for free seems far more like bowing to the inevitable than it does like targeting users outside China. Last I heard piracy was rampant in China & MS gave up on enforcing the idea of getting money from copies of Windows there a long time ago. If MS is giving away their OS for free competitive products must follow suit if they want to remain relevant at all, that's just economic reality. Try to think seriously instead of tossing out shallow ideas that are obvious FUD.
Number of Comments: 92
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|• Issue 811 (2019-04-22): Alpine 3.9.2, rsync examples, Ubuntu working on ZFS support, Debian elects new Project Leader, Obarun releases S6 tools|
|• Issue 810 (2019-04-15): SolydXK 201902, Bedrock Linux 0.7.2, Fedora phasing out Python 2, NetBSD gets virtual machine monitor|
|• Issue 809 (2019-04-08): PCLinuxOS 2019.02, installing Falkon and problems with portable packages, Mint offers daily build previews, Ubuntu speeds up Snap packages|
|• Issue 808 (2019-04-01): Solus 4.0, security benefits and drawbacks to using a live distro, Gentoo gets GNOME ports working without systemd, Redox OS update|
|• Issue 807 (2019-03-25): Pardus 17.5, finding out which user changed a file, new Budgie features, a tool for browsing FreeBSD's sysctl values|
|• Issue 806 (2019-03-18): Kubuntu vs KDE neon, Nitrux's znx, notes on Debian's election, SUSE becomes an independent entity|
|• Issue 805 (2019-03-11): EasyOS 1.0, managing background services, Devuan team debates machine ID file, Ubuntu Studio works to remain an Ubuntu Community Edition|
|• Issue 804 (2019-03-04): Condres OS 19.02, securely erasing hard drives, new UBports devices coming in 2019, Devuan to host first conference|
|• Issue 803 (2019-02-25): Septor 2019, preventing windows from stealing focus, NetBSD and Nitrux experiment with virtual machines, pfSense upgrading to FreeBSD 12 base|
|• Issue 802 (2019-02-18): Slontoo 18.07.1, NetBSD tests newer compiler, Fedora packaging Deepin desktop, changes in Ubuntu Studio|
|• Issue 801 (2019-02-11): Project Trident 18.12, the meaning of status symbols in top, FreeBSD Foundation lists ongoing projects, Plasma Mobile team answers questions|
|• Issue 800 (2019-02-04): FreeNAS 11.2, using Ubuntu Studio software as an add-on, Nitrux developing znx, matching operating systems to file systems|
|• Issue 799 (2019-01-28): KaOS 2018.12, Linux Basics For Hackers, Debian 10 enters freeze, Ubuntu publishes new version for IoT devices|
|• Issue 798 (2019-01-21): Sculpt OS 18.09, picking a location for swap space, Solus team plans ahead, Fedora trying to get a better user count|
|• Issue 797 (2019-01-14): Reborn OS 2018.11.28, TinyPaw-Linux 1.3, dealing with processes which make the desktop unresponsive, Debian testing Secure Boot support|
|• Issue 796 (2019-01-07): FreeBSD 12.0, Peppermint releases ISO update, picking the best distro of 2018, roundtable interview with Debian, Fedora and elementary developers|
|• Issue 795 (2018-12-24): Running a Pinebook, interview with Bedrock founder, Alpine being ported to RISC-V, Librem 5 dev-kits shipped|
|• Issue 794 (2018-12-17): Void 20181111, avoiding software bloat, improvements to HAMMER2, getting application overview in GNOME Shell|
|• Issue 793 (2018-12-10): openSUSE Tumbleweed, finding non-free packages, Debian migrates to usrmerge, Hyperbola gets FSF approval|
|• Issue 792 (2018-1203): GhostBSD 18.10, when to use swap space, DragonFly BSD's wireless support, Fedora planning to pause development schedule|
|• Issue 791 (2018-11-26): Haiku R1 Beta1, default passwords on live media, Slax and Kodachi update their media, dual booting DragonFly BSD on EFI|
|• Issue 790 (2018-11-19): NetBSD 8.0, Bash tips and short-cuts, Fedora's networking benchmarked with FreeBSD, Ubuntu 18.04 to get ten years of support|
|• Issue 789 (2018-11-12): Fedora 29 Workstation and Silverblue, Haiku recovering from server outage, Fedora turns 15, Debian publishes updated media|
|• Issue 788 (2018-11-05): Clu Linux Live 6.0, examining RAM consumpion, finding support for older CPUs, more Steam support for running Windows games on Linux, update from Solus team|
|• Issue 787 (2018-10-29): Lubuntu 18.10, limiting application access to specific users, Haiku hardware compatibility list, IBM purchasing Red Hat|
|• Issue 786 (2018-10-22): elementary OS 5.0, why init keeps running, DragonFly BSD enables virtual machine memory resizing, KDE neon plans to drop older base|
|• Issue 785 (2018-10-15): Reborn OS 2018.09, Nitrux 1.0.15, swapping hard drives between computers, feren OS tries KDE spin, power savings coming to Linux|
|• Issue 784 (2018-10-08): Hamara 2.1, improving manual pages, UBports gets VoIP app, Fedora testing power saving feature|
|• Issue 783 (2018-10-01): Quirky 8.6, setting up dual booting with Ubuntu and FreeBSD, Lubuntu switching to LXQt, Mint works on performance improvements|
|• Issue 782 (2018-09-24): Bodhi Linux 5.0.0, Elive 3.0.0, Solus publishes ISO refresh, UBports invites feedback, Linux Torvalds plans temporary vacation|
|• Issue 781 (2018-09-17): Linux Mint 3 "Debian Edition", file systems for SSDs, MX makes installing Flatpaks easier, Arch team answers questions, Mageia reaches EOL|
|• Issue 780 (2018-09-10): Netrunner 2018.08 Rolling, Fedora improves language support, how to customize Kali Linux, finding the right video drivers|
|• Issue 779 (2018-09-03): Redcore 1806, keeping ISO downloads safe from tampering, Lubuntu makes Calamares more flexible, Ubuntu improves GNOME performance|
|• Issue 778 (2018-08-27): GuixSD 0.15.0, ReactOS 0.4.9, Steam supports Windows games on Linux, Haiku plans for beta, merging disk partitions|
|• Full list of all issues|
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NordisKnoppix was a version of Klaus Knopper's Knoppix, supporting Nordic and Baltic languages, and maintained by Conrad Newton. Presently, the supported languages include Danish, Estonian, Finnish, Faroese, Icelandic, Latvian, Lithuanian, Northern sami, Norwegian bokmål, Norwegian nynorsk, Swedish and US English, to the extent that Debian packages for these languages are available, and that they fit on the CD. Aside from the Nordic/Baltic language components, NordisKnoppix was the same as standard Knoppix.