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1 • Politeness in LKML (by Theodore on 2015-10-19 01:08:09 GMT from Europe)
Your deli argument is a non sequitur, because you just buy and eat the sandwich, you aren't the sandwich guy's quality or project manager (I don't use the term 'boss' on purpose: neither you or Linus are in the position of paying these people).
You either are very lucky or haven't experienced 10, 20, 30 years on the same project, working with and somehow leading a huge team composed by people who often you distrust.
Living Linux mostly as a parasite (I don't pay for anything floss but heavily use flos software), I prefer swearing Torvalds to polite Garrett. Because Linus is still here, being paid, while Garrett ceases development of what he likes or based on political stance although being paid.
But yeah, whatever, the swearing Linus, like systemd or Snowden, is an easy clickbait, so who gives a damn
2 • search does not work as intended (by Tomas on 2015-10-19 01:23:49 GMT from North America)
select: based on Debian, select: non based on Ubuntu, select: systemd, select: not in current release. Result: lists a mishmash of active and non-active O/Ses; everything from PC-BSD to Slax
3 • Being "Nice" (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2015-10-19 02:05:51 GMT from North America)
Linus was right. Socio' bullies with social skills are still just bullies; they simply prefer a different skillset. Corporate shills likewise aren't in it to help. The worst thing you can do for a group is tolerate poisonous people.
That said, Civil is best, though sometimes mistaken for Gullible.
In my experience, a "Code of Conduct" is often a weapon for PC bullies to use on their victims, or a facade for management hypocrisy.
In the absence of sane licensing, I prefer Freed and Open-Source Software, whether BSD or GPL, and tolerate Free-ware and (to a lesser degree) Trial-ware. After all, Freedom isn't free. I strongly favor Try-Before-You-Contribute, including testing IRC/forum attitude, civility, moderation and self-discipline. Spreading small remunerations over time minimizes long-term risk.
I do wonder why Package Search doesn't use simple pattern-matching?
4 • Male Engineering hard-heads: more "Linus" coming! (by Greg Zeng on 2015-10-19 02:11:15 GMT from North America)
Since my undergraduate days in the 60's (University of Adelaide), the impoliteness of male engineers has been noticed by the junior Femocrats. Today on other parts of the internet, the MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) movements are rebelling against this female bias, saying-writing that task is more important than personal mannerisms, whether it be software, hardware or firmware engineering in any area.
Now that I have been traumatically brain-injured for 30+ years, with many police-records & interventions for being TOO IMPOLITE, I can see that there are many legitimate reasons for rudeness. Physical-trauma, drug & alcohol poisoning are not the only reasons. IMHO the major cause, regardless of sex, age, race, etc ... is low EQ - Emotional Intelligence.
Understandably children and child-like adults should be "forgiven" for low EQ. If however the person is highly productive, such as a CEO, CFO, CIO, ... these people are often protected from the lay people with several layers of cushion-buffers, or people-orientated staff.
Australian federal politics is similar to that other nations, with a high turnover of our nominal CEO (president, prime-minister, etc). But the main machinery of government continues onwards, reliably, predictably.
This machinery of "corporate personality" or "middle-management" usually has stable governance, but long term health?. Witness the declines of IBM, manufacturing (software & hardware) in the USA, Europe, Scandinavia, Canada and Australia, who are now facing post-industrial stagnation. Perhaps the 3rd world nations will also face this bleeding edge when they too reach the post-industrial stages of civilized living (more democracy, more internet, more "Linus", etc).
Solutions: more R&D into management technologies, than is currently being applied. The conservative, know-all thinking of the past generations are preventing this R&D. Again USA's fear of uncertainty is leading the planet, especially in 2016.
5 • Minimum hardware requirements to run distro??? (by Ben Myers on 2015-10-19 02:28:30 GMT from North America)
Would that other distros followed Linux Lite by stating the minimum hardware requirements for running them. This would take some of the guesswork out of deciding which distros to download and try out on older hardware, typically single core, limited graphics (16M or 32M graphics memory) and older PATA hard drives. One would also hope that these minumum requirements are realistic enough for people to do actual work once the distro is installed, in contrast to Microsoft which ALWAYS gives low-ball unrealistic minimum hardware requirements, resulting in a barely usable system.
6 • @5 Re: Minimum hardware requirements for Linux Lite (by Rev_Don on 2015-10-19 02:47:30 GMT from North America)
" One would also hope that these minumum requirements are realistic enough for people to do actual work once the distro is installed"
Those minimum requirements are for the older 1.x releases based on Ubuntu 12.04. LL 2.x releases are based on Ubuntu 14.04 and have a slightly higher minimum requirement. I find it appalling that they failed to update those to reflect currently available releases, especially since the 2.x releases require a cpu that supports PAE.
That said, I haven't tried LL on a 700MHz system, but when I tried it on a 1.4GHz P4 with a gig of ram it did NOT perform very well. It was stable enough, but sluggish and laggy. I would say the recommended requirements are closer to Real World Minimum requirements.
It is a fine distro overall, but definitely not meant for really old systems like LXLE, Q4OS, or some of the other truly light weight distros are.
7 • Linux distribution limits, better known please (by Greg Zeng on 2015-10-19 03:04:19 GMT from North America)
Distros can be hazardous, in ways known only to the creator of the distro. National governments that create distros might note my first point, which allows malware & spyware, other than the ones already in the official Linux kernels (required for organizational tracing):
from: ExTiX 15.4 64 bit (http://sourceforge.net/projects/extix/files/)
> kernel 4.2.0-16-exton corresponding Kernel.org's kernel 4.2.3
Limits of Linux's supporting parts:
> Gnome 3.14 won't run together with Nvidia's proprietary drivers.
> possible to watch Netflix movies. It is not possible in Firefox (in Linux).
Limits of user-installations of most operating systems:
> "all" multimedia codecs. Everything the average Linux user could wish for I would say.
> versions can run from RAM
> run ExTiX from the USB stick
> Login Manager as root with password root or as extix with no password.
The reviewers of operating systems usually ignore the points above. If only they could mention them. Most notes attached to distributions hide the true limits of their distributions.
8 • Convergence (by cykodrone on 2015-10-19 03:23:00 GMT from North America)
You don't stick a truck engine in a compact car and vice versa. PC's and smartphones are different hardware, different animals, different input methods. I would love to see somebody create a full blown spreadsheet on a smartphone, and then print it from a printer connected to that phone. I'm old school PC, it's shear power, there's very little I cannot do with it, there's a lot I CAN'T do with a smartphone (yes, I own an Android, I hate it, it's nothing but corporate and Goggle spyware). Sometimes I think developers drink way too much coffee, then expect us to accept whatever garbage they churn out, NOT!
9 • New releases and new DE releases (by gnome on 2015-10-19 03:26:32 GMT from Europe)
Gnome 3.18 is there since a few weeks and it is very disappointing that among the 40 DW's top ranking, there's only 1 distribution that offer it as stable: Antergos!
10 • Convergence (by Josh on 2015-10-19 03:34:59 GMT from North America)
As a developer, the idea of convergence is great, because it means I get to be lazier. As a consumer, I hate the idea of convergence, because it generally means things will be dumbed down across the board for the lowest common denominator.
11 • I'm in @8's camp (by pedro on 2015-10-19 03:50:11 GMT from North America)
For the sake of the kids, I hope folks of our mindset aren't a dying breed. I believe The convergence hype is being fueled by commercial entities who, collectively (in their little cliques, or alliances) are bent on corporitizing the technospere. For example, FIDO Alliance: Googleborg, PreyPal, BancoAmerika... they claim they want to protect us. Yeah, right. Howabout Tizen, Yocto Project? Little cliques deciding "for our protection" which flavor DRM, which TPM, which PlayStore will be forced onto users, as "comes with the package, part of the experience" lock-ins. Sony, Samsung, LG, Amazon, Google... and now nVidia, playing hardball. "If you want you use our device, you must allow us to provide, or at least marshal (and moetize) all aspects of the overall `experience`".
12 • Convergence (by Chris on 2015-10-19 03:50:31 GMT from North America)
Similar to @10, in my opinion convergence has its pros and cons. However, I think the solution is to converge everything below the desktop environment and available software, which then should both be customized to the intended hardware while having complimentary themeing across hardware types.
Say what you want about Apple, but they are experts at this hybrid method.
13 • Being polite may not kill you, but you might be taken advantage of (by Eric Yeoh on 2015-10-19 03:58:53 GMT from Asia)
I empathise with the amount of work/commits that Linus needs to wade through on a daily basis. With something as complex and critical as the kernel, I can certainly understand his frustrations and outbursts. Being polite by dropping lesser f-bombs and personal attacks are by no way losing credibility nor being dishonest but shows maturity. Being direct and in your face worked in Linux's infancy but I am unsure this will ensure its growth. Will kids or newbies be willing to work towards being a contributor and risk being flamed? Not everyone can take it. So only thick-skinned developers need to apply? Awesome people like GKH, akpm and Torvalds will need to pass the torch to someone sooner or later - with so much bad publicity and bruised egos - when the time does come, will there be someone to take over or will the kernel be taken over by some corporation like RH or Canonical or even MS? The whole Sarah Sharp issue was sparked off by some silly joke (as per https://www.preining.info/blog/2015/10/looking-at-the-facts-sarah-sharps-crusade/) but it was possibly the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. If she was whining were Alan Cox and Con Kolivas too? I am worried as I use GNU/Linux at work and almost exclusively for personal computing. Are we really comfortable in the prospect of forking the kernel? Matthew Garret is already doing that.
14 • NuTyX, another unique distro! (by Hsyin G. Guzelaydin on 2015-10-19 05:47:08 GMT from North America)
Besides NixOS, OpenIndiana, GoboLinux, PisiLinux, Slax and few others; it is truly exhilarating now to see the emergence NuTyX as another promising distinctive distro, amongst tedious myriad distros at large ....
I believe it would make a highly interesting read if Jesse or Ladislav were to (perhaps by interviewing some developers) enlighten us more about the above-stated eminently inspiring distros which are, indeed, unique -- yet not fringe, hence legitimately promising linux operating systems ...
Admittedly I, for one, would relish reading such a special coverage about all those exceedingly great distros in one of the upcoming DW Weekly's editions.
15 • Life in the Big Leagues (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2015-10-19 06:53:47 GMT from North America)
13 • Errant coders in the Linux Kernel group aren't met with extremes in discipline for their first offense. It takes repeated misdeeds, a pattern of error, to attract that much energy.
Of course, "kids and newbies" aren't expected to start out in such high echelons, where bugs can cost millions and take so much more work to correct.
Whoever inherits the challenge from Linus will be faced with the same constant barrage from strong personalities that either provide great coding or attempted sabotage, requiring the same strong discipline.
4 • For management expertise, consider consulting some Japanese. They take wisdom from wherever it can be found, explore and expand its boundaries. I suspect it's part of their cultural tradition.
16 • Convergence is good for the OS but not for the UI (by Name on 2015-10-19 07:44:12 GMT from Europe)
Convergence for the base OS is a good thing because it allows you to run one application on different devices but the user interface should NOT be the same, the best interface for a desktop PC that has a keyboard, mouse and a large screen cannot be the same as that for a smartphone that has a small touchscreen or for a server that is controlled remotely via command line.
17 • Speaking out against Sarah Sharp (by Microlinux on 2015-10-19 08:02:35 GMT from Europe)
Here's a message that hits the nail on the head.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/7/24/142
18 • Covergence (by Sondar on 2015-10-19 08:04:33 GMT from Europe)
Sounds good, superficially. On reflection, better to have a plethora of options, with many minority distros attracting too little attention to be of interest to the growing legions of cyber crooks and wannabes.
19 • @13 and The Author (by Stan on 2015-10-19 08:21:03 GMT from Europe)
Agreed with 13, also I think the Author of the article has some points in favor, but we have to look at the context.
Linux kernel development is not a company making profit with payrolls that could easily implement rules and sanctions that could possibly put people in line. With all his defects I want Linus T. and the next one should have similar strong character, otherwise we will see the kernel filled in with political bugs, mundane wishlist and choppy workarounds.
20 • Linux Code of Conduct & Convergence (by Alexandru on 2015-10-19 08:27:31 GMT from Europe)
@ Linux Code of Conduct
What Linus tries to emphasize is that one's technical abilities are different from his moral qualities and in LKML the first is more important than the last. Although I personally do not share this opinion, it was at least one situation when such an aggressive attitude helped Linux - when Linus answered to Andrew Tennenbaum critics of Linux. It is possible this answer also determined Minix little importance in present day compared to Linux.
@Convergence
Convergence is always a good thing. The question is: at what level the convergence should be realized. Just two examples:
1. Application shortcuts. Regardless of application purpose and OS, user usually expects Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V, etc to do same things - copy, cut, paste etc. And this is A Good Thing (TM).
2. When you keep your phone or tablet in one hand, you can easily touch any part of the screen with another hand. So if you need to touch at opposite screen corners, it isn't a problem. However when using a PC with 27" display the very same situation is frustrating. An this is A Bad Design (TM).
21 • The price (by lucius on 2015-10-19 08:45:40 GMT from Europe)
Freedom isn't free - that lame excuse, usually offered by those with a line of cash registers by the exit. Most distros are free. You can download a copy, install it and use it, without registering signing up, or paying. Freedom, in that sense is free.
Freedom is free.
Convenience is cheap.
Obedience/participation (barely any difference between the two these days) costs.
22 • Review of Linux Lite 2.6 (by Ari Torres on 2015-10-19 09:21:04 GMT from North America)
Great Review,Great Distro (my daily driver) I recommend Linux Lite to new comers from windows.
I made my installation look like Windows 7 so much that people can't tell what OS I'm using but I can also make it look so Capitan that people can't tell either.
Thank you Jesse.
23 • LKML (by Prime Meridian on 2015-10-19 10:03:28 GMT from North America)
The last thing in the world the linux community needs is a fork of the kernel to go along with all of the other mindless squabbles and rivalries that already plague the FOSS world, but I almost hope the SJWs go ahead and do it just so that the difference between a messy meritocracy and a politically correct kindergarten can be made crystal clear and the best model can win.
24 • Well done Jesse (by Paul on 2015-10-19 10:38:24 GMT from Europe)
Thanks Jesse for a nice review of Linus Lite and for a very well written and measured piece on LKML communications. I can see points on boh sides but what one contributor (Francesca) calls "grumptastic" is unnecessary abrasiveness to others. The truth is that both sides have behaved less than civilly and could reflect on it. I'd say the moral winner is the first to acknowledge it, but I don't expect that to happen, just digging in. I know from having worked with some that there's no rule that brilliant people have to be nice. That's just a fact of life. Given a voice between two kernels I will not look for the one labeled "No feelings were hurt in the production of this kernel."
It was another fine issue. Thanks for the consistent excellence.
25 • Convergence (by speedytux on 2015-10-19 12:49:22 GMT from Europe)
Who tried to work with OpenDocument on Android can't oppose Convergence
26 • Review of Linux Lite 2.6 (by Torrey on 2015-10-19 13:02:26 GMT from North America)
Thanks for the fair review of Linux Lite 2.6. I use it on all of my PCs and have helped several others get it to work on their machines.
For those commenting on the minimum specs, I can say that a PC from 2007 or younger is the sweet spot. To get more details, you can see the hardware database for version 2.6 at the following link: https://www.linuxliteos.com/hwdb.html.
27 • civility and politeness (by Pearson on 2015-10-19 14:39:29 GMT from North America)
Yet again, I'm reminded of why I enjoy Jessee's writing -- he and I share a philosophical outlook.
I contend that Linus has the right to run "his" organization as he sees fit. But, I agree that his stated approach, as quoted by Jessee in this opinion piece, is logically flawed. Linus has drawn two extremes as the only possible options. We must remember that the goal of politics is to find a way to reach agreements among and between disparate people with equally disparate ideas and goals. The fact that "politicians" have made this a dirty occupation should not lessen its need.
Whenever you find yourself negotiating with your spouse/partner/friend and come to an amicable and respectful agreement, you've just practiced politics.
28 • convergence and conduct (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-19 14:42:27 GMT from North America)
Ironically I feel like these two things are controversial in the Linux community because of the exact same reason: Too many people feel like their way of doing things is absolutely the best and everyone who does things differently is WRONG.
I'd add all the controversy over systemd into this mix as well.
I think the solution is pretty simple and all effective organizations have such: a clear chain of command.
If a controversial decision needs to be made, it should be clear who makes it, there should be time to collect all informed opinions, and then it should be made for technical reasons that are clearly laid out for all to see, and that needs to be IT. Flaming and trolling should result in being banned from discussions. If an organization (the kernel team, a distro, an application team) enforced "who gets to make the decision" rules then a lot of this could be avoided.
29 • Lite tweaks (by Kazlu on 2015-10-19 14:46:10 GMT from Europe)
About Lite Tweaks: This litle piece of software is really great. It reminds me of when I had a Ubuntu installation that had been running for years in a 15GB partition, that I upgraded every six months. Of course, I ended up filling up the partition. I looked here and there for ways to clean my installation so I could simply continue using it. That's when I discovered one has to remove old kernels manually (I had something like 20-30 old kernels installed at that time). I could easily take care of that, but I figured less experienced people would just be stuck. This is one of the little reasons that made me think Ubuntu and its official variants have some potential deal-breaker drawbacks for the less experienced users that are non existant with other distributions, like Linux Mint where the standard upgrade path is to reinstall the whole OS anyway. But with this, Linux Lite fills a hole and this little detail is in fact a strong argument to make it one of the best non-techy-user friendly distros out there. The Linux Lite Control Center looks amazing too, it reminds me of the Mageia Control Centrer or openSUSE's Yast, and I think this kind of software is really a huge bonus to any distro. Congratulations to the Linux Lite team for coming up with these tools!
30 • Civility (by dragonmouth on 2015-10-19 15:25:42 GMT from North America)
Kinus's attitude and methods will ultimately lead to "migh makes right". Those with the strongest, most abrasive and obnoxious personalities will be ramming through their ideas for Linux, regardles of whether those ideas will benefit or hurt Linux in the long run. "Be reasonable, do it MY way" is not cooperation. Linus Torvalds thinks that just because he is brilliant and the "Father of Linux", he has no need for social skills.
31 • Policing, Passion and Politics (by Somewhat Reticent on 2015-10-19 16:03:42 GMT from North America)
Generally, in a factory full of drones filling in for robots, a clear chain of command is common ('workers' are not privy_to or expected_to_understand the 'big_picture'); in a group of professionals, a leader sells ideas (Steve Jobs?).
Life is never that simple, of course. Savvy workers prevent mishaps; professionals push in directions unhealthy for the organization. Less-mature individuals need to be mentored. Offenders should be disciplined; a recalcitrant repeat offender should be confined to a playpen, or invited (and motivated) to leave.
The Linux Kernel team is a Benevolent Dictatorship for good reason. It is not a marriage, nor is it a prison.
Lawyers are required to respect the law. A case should not be determined by social/political skills. Trial by public opinion would quickly subvert justice, even fairness.
A sharp sociopath can fool many for quite some time. So what?
32 • Linux Lite 2.6 (by Shashi Warrier on 2015-10-19 16:27:59 GMT from Asia)
That was a pretty good review of Lite. However, I've been having one little problem with it. I like Opera, and installed it a few weeks ago. It doesn't update!
Otherwise, Lite is perfect.
33 • @32 Opera on Linux Lite / *buntu (by Tran Older on 2015-10-19 17:21:35 GMT from Asia)
If you installed Presto-engined Opera 12.16, it is the last of the line and possibly new update would be the Vivaldi browser, which has not been stable enough for productivity, despite its huge merits and potentiality.
If you installed Chromium- engined Opera browser, you could always download the latest *.deb installation file from the Opera website.
Personally, I would stick to Presto-engined Opera 12.16. It simply works (meaning : it crashes less than Firefox and Chromium :-)).
34 • Best Linux distro and Desktop Environment Combinations? (by Hayden James on 2015-10-19 17:38:32 GMT from North America)
Linux Lite looks ravishing. What other Distros / DE combinations do you guys recommend?
35 • drones and robots (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-19 18:26:34 GMT from North America)
@31
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying in your second half (from "Linux Kernel team" onward) but this is EXACTLY why a chain of command is needed.
In no way am I saying collaboration and disagreement should be interdicted. But that at the end of the day, the community should give one person or one committee the power to make a decision. Once that decision is made, continued bickering is no longer productive, it just ticks people off.
Chain of command makes it not personal. One doesn't have to fight to the death for an idea. Make your case, the team decides, everyone moves forward. No one has to question the worth or value of anyone else.
36 • Weakening of Society (by Eric Estrada on 2015-10-19 19:08:11 GMT from North America)
The world has embrassed political correctness at the cost of mental accuity. If you are above average intelligence, polical correctness is a metal straight jacket, a prison for your mind, if you will. If you are an average working joe, as the saying goes, you live in the world and seldom question anything beause you just don't have the ability to think beyond the next day of work or the next beer.
I agree with @3 on this point:
"In my experience, a "Code of Conduct" is often a weapon for PC bullies to use on their victims, or a facade for management hypocrisy."
If everyone, despite their ability, has to be praised, then we are lowering the bar. Meritocrasy is replaced with mediocrity. I have someone working with me that cannot seem to remember from one day to the next what the application does, despite working on it for over a year. The PC movement dictates that I cannot fire someone for incompetance, because that would hurt their feelings. But if I say you are a moron, I would get fired.
Would we like for Linus to be removed and have someone else take the helm? They would certainly be more polite, but I think Linux would become so bug-infested and unmaintainable that everyone would turn back to Windows. You have a nice corporation behind it, so average joe doesn't have to think or question it, like people using google docs. You know they are indexing your documents, but you just dont have the ability to think critically and object to the invasion of privacy. Average joe would not go to the BSDs. They would politely tell him if he wanted a GUI to use PC-BSD or Windows. Why can't Linus behave like the BSD? Because the project is organized differently, and he is the BDFL.
37 • Linus's Logical Leap (by Jason on 2015-10-19 19:40:19 GMT from North America)
Linus is definitely making the logical leap there, suggesting that acting with civility necessarily means adopting the worst of office politics. The likely explanation is he enjoys his clubhouse and wants to keep it how it is.
38 • Weakening of Society (by Eric Estrada on 2015-10-19 19:08:11 GMT from North Amer (by Bill on 2015-10-19 20:23:17 GMT from North America)
@36 We are living, Atlas Shrugged.
39 • @36 - Wekening of Societh (by Pearson on 2015-10-19 21:44:52 GMT from North America)
"If everyone, despite their ability, has to be praised, then we are lowering the bar"
Again, this is painting an extreme as the only logical alternative. Nobody is saying that "everyone has to be praised", only there's usually a respectful way to say that something is wrong.
For example, Linus could hypothetically say "Pearson's an idiot who isn't worth talking to", or he could say "None of Pearson's ideas have been useful or usable. It's a misuse of my time to continue with him." Note how the first is an attack, and the second is a statement of facts (as he has the privilege of defining the facts).
An occasional use of the first may be appropriate in some circumstances, particularly if needed to get the other person's attention. IMHO, those circumstances should generally be rare.
40 • Society is not weakening (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-19 21:48:31 GMT from North America)
It's not "being politically correct" to ask people to not be jerks.
I hate the term politically correct because typically you get accused of it when you point out when someone's behaving badly and they don't like to hear it.
NO ONE is suggesting that meritocracy be replaced with anything. But if you scratch the surface in any dispute that affects the FOSS community you're usually not very far from people being worked into a blind rage over some perceived slight and responding by bullying anyone that disagrees with them. And good developers are constantly getting sick of it and leaving the community and that hurts all of us.
The FOSS community exists for a purpose: to create, develop, bug-test, and use FOSS software. That's what debates should be about. And when debates are over they need to be over.
All of this could be solved with a little bit of structure. It doesn't have to be a huge, cumbersome process. Each team of developers just needs to agree beforehand how disputes will be settled and then stick to it. "We have this big technical decision to make and we will make it by next Thursday. We'll all vote Friday. Between now and Thursday make your points about the decision and don't be a jerk if you think someone's incorrect- explain why they're incorrect." Then enforce it. And if on Saturday someone's still flaming about the decision then don't allow further discussion. There'll be a new issue to worry about
41 • convergence, DEs & politeness (by M.Z. on 2015-10-19 22:15:45 GMT from North America)
On the subject of convergence I say it greatly depends on context & execution, so I put it depends on the UI/device. I think what #20 said about common shortcuts being good & common touch points on very different screens being bad are both good points. I'd also add that I think flexibility also matters a great deal. I think throwing out the old & not giving enough flexibility in new UIs is a huge failing in both Gnome 3 & windows 8. It seems like someone could integrate both touch & traditional desktop elements together in a flexible way that respects both paradigms & user preferences, but I haven't seen it done.
@34 - DEs
It depends largely on your sensibilities. I like the glow & sheen of most any recent KDE 4 based distro, but if you like something slightly flatter like Linux Lite then you might look into either something with KDE 5 or perhaps Cinnamon. Both are fairly flexible & have some nice pop to them if you play with the effects, so set any theme you want (including the relatively flat defaults) & enjoy.
@33
I have both Firefox & Opera 32 on my Mint installs & I have to say I find them both to be fairly trouble free & enjoyable. The .deb file for Opera installs nice & the newer versions seems like worthwhile upgrades over the old 12.16 version, though I still prefer Firefox.
------------------------------------------------------
As for the whole politeness vs 'PC' debate regarding the mailing list, well I'm in favor of a degree of common decency & politeness in professional settings when ever possible. It doesn't seem like Linus would agree, & while I like a good lowbrow movie or TV show on occasion, it's better to try and avoid that kind of stuff in a relatively professional setting like a mailing list.
@38
I saw the old black & white movie of Atlas Shrugged a while back on TV & I must agree with Officer Barbrady. That is to say if the book is as bad as that worthless self serving piece of crap movie, I can see why it would make South Park's chief of police swear off reading forever.
42 • @5 Minimum hardware requirements to run distro (by Yan on 2015-10-19 22:27:30 GMT from North America)
One can't always rely on a distribution's stated minimum requirements. Some distributions will run well with the minimum requirements; others are practically unusable.
I've found that SliTaz is one of the best distributions for very old systems.
43 • re: 35 * drones and robots (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-19 18:26:34 GMT from North Am (by the card says "consultant" on 2015-10-19 22:54:06 GMT from Europe)
> No one has to question the worth or value of anyone else.
Especially the value of those more equal than others.
44 • 36 * Weakening of Society (by Eric Estrada on 2015-10-19 19:08:11 GMT from North (by the card says "consultant" on 2015-10-19 22:54:48 GMT from Europe)
> Why can't Linus behave like the BSD?
Not one system, with it's own kernel and the letters "BSD" in the project name, was started for any other reason than at least two competent geeks, at least two geeks among geeks, both sufficiently competent to hack an actual production grade kernel, found each other insufferable. Not merely ill behaved, by geeks among geeks standards, but so intolerable that a new kernel was born.
45 • Convergence will not happen (by Ricardo on 2015-10-20 00:06:43 GMT from South America)
I thought convergence could be a good thing but always had my doubts.
There's a sereis of articles by Aaron Seigo (from KDE fame) which are pretty interesting, starting with:
https://exote.ch/blogs/aseigo/2014/08/16/what_is_the_desktop_convergence_will_not_happen/
46 • Linux Lite and Peppermint (by hotdiggettydog on 2015-10-20 00:17:33 GMT from North America)
I've been a Lite fan for some time. Pretty in its default form and trouble free. Great distro!
I also have to give credit to Peppermint. It answers my needs well. It is more bare bones than Lite but I get to choose what I want to install instead of wasting bandwidth on included software.
Peppermint is a polished product. Very stable and trouble free.
I would suggest the developers supply an eye popping wallpaper instead of the dark, dreary, default one. First impressions are everything and an appealing desktop speaks volumes.
47 • Lite & Convergence (by Platypus on 2015-10-20 01:11:54 GMT from Oceania)
I stumbled upon Lite a year or two back and it has been my "go to" distro since then. It works well and is polished. Jesse has it absolutely right. Being Xcfe based you can set it up any way you like.
Convergence n dumbing down of software features is like socialism; forced coercion led by opinionated self-indulgent leaders who know what is good for us. I just wish people would stop and realise that there is an awful amount of work done in professional writing, engineering, accounting and business (just to name a few) that can't be done with your thumbs on a tablet and phone.
48 • Lite, Convergence & Civility (by GittyUp on 2015-10-20 02:14:46 GMT from North America)
@Lite: Another good review, Jesse. Thanks. Lite looks to be another fine "modified version based On Xubuntu. Question: Is Lite's UEFI support comparable to base Xubuntu or Linux Mint? If yes, it should work on most, if not all UEFI based rigs.
@Convergence: Seems something always gets left out. Different hardware functions, need a different OS. My 2 bits.
@Civility: Something about a "golden rule" "Do unto others as you would..." You may be completely and technically right, but with a wrong attitude/spirit you shall end up on the wrong end, eventually. "Like people and use things." (Not the other way around.) Peace. :)
49 • Convergance (by Ralph Bromley on 2015-10-20 02:20:42 GMT from North America)
I am a firm believer in the right tool for the right job, and convergence is like taking a sledgehammer to a thumb tack.
Look I use a tablet but if I wanted a tablet OS I would use stock android not Ubuntu and if I wanted to use my desktop I would use another distro if Ubuntu is forcing a tablet UI on us.
Remember windows 8 Canonical? its a harsh lesson that you simply cannot take a phillips head screwdriver to turn a hex nut
50 • Being sincere, productive and NOT rude (by Will B on 2015-10-20 03:26:30 GMT from North America)
You know what? I agree with @40 Tim in that being nice, or polite, does NOT automatically mean you're being 'politically correct'.
Jesus (yes, I'm pulling the 'Jesus Card') was totally NOT 'politically correct' yet he cared for and loved people...Jesus did way more for the world than Linus has.
Linus is sitting up in his little kingdom and it seems like he expects the members of his group to conform to his rude and obnoxious behavior. On technical merit, Linus is super-bright and if not genius, he's pretty close to it. I don't care if Finland has a culture of swearing and I don't care if Linus thinks swearing and being caustic is good for 'business'. I lived for a while in South Central Los Angeles, but you don't see me shooting people for messing up my food order, or cussing out a gasoline attendant for taking too much time to fill up my car (Oregon - you can't pump your own gas).
I had a boss who was firm but fair. Of all the bosses I've had, I wanted to work the hardest and do the best job for this firm-but-fair boss. He didn't have to cuss me out, he didn't have to shame me publicly or ride my behind to get good work or cooperation from me. He treated me well all the time but if I screwed up, he wouldn't bash me over the head with it, he'd calmly and genuinely tell me the consequences for messing up, and helped me improve. He didn't use fake politeness, he wasn't 'politically correct'...he was real, and he was great to work for.
Linux (and just about everything else) is about people working together to make something fantastic. People need structure, guidance and advice, but they sure as heck don't need someone screaming or cussing at them when things don't go right. Linus has a behavioral problem, and it's starting to burn technically good people out.
[ BSDs ]
Lots of great BSD news today! OpenBSD's new release, DragonFly's work on Wayland and GhostBSD. Go BSD!! :-D
[ 'Light' distributions ]
I've tried Linux Light, and while it's pleasant to work with, it's not at all 'lite'. I consider a distro to be 'light' when it uses less than 120 MB after the graphical desktop starts. Since so many distros use Debian or Ubuntu as their base, it's going to be pretty hard to make a truly 'light' distro due to all of the baggage those base distros clump in. I can't wait for the day when an independent distro makes a distro that is 'light' but still fully-functional for people like me. I guess I'm a bit odd as I've got 16 GB RAM, a nice fast processor, large hard disk and decent video card, but I still like running the bare minimum (currently, OpenBox and LXPanel). I do remote tech support and don't need anything getting in the way, and don't need 3D effects and sludge slowing me down during my fast-paced day.
Thanks for this week's DistroWatch Weekly Jesse and Gang! :-D
51 • Communication and Linux kernel development (by Ruff Guy on 2015-10-19 04:41:28 GMT from South America)
"Perhaps the community needs to ask itself which is better to have: Torvalds or the many developers who find him too aggressive to work with."
TORVALDS, forever TORVALDS!!!
This wonderful man is the reason why our beloved operating system have a kernel called Linux (not Garrettix, Sharpix, Coxix, or Kolivasix).
Just imagine how sucky would be the Linux kernel if it were developed by the "very polite" space tourist Mark Shuttleworth...
52 • convergence (by zykoda on 2015-10-20 07:23:42 GMT from Europe)
Convergence happens at the command line. The flexibility and comprehensiveness of the UI at generating the command can ease and quicken the "Driving Of the Vehicle" DOV. The user interaction mechanisms demand special considerations..keyboard, mouse, graphics pen, camera, sensors,... just as the feedback for confidence, expectations, monitoring, interrupt, interposition.....etc.
53 • @51 (by Stan on 2015-10-20 08:53:15 GMT from Europe)
Agreed, the kernel is the core of the OS it needs to be strong and resilient, same as the maintainer.
Only the time will tell which are the traits a maintainer should have to manage such type of project.
54 • Convergence (by jg on 2015-10-20 12:25:15 GMT from Europe)
A receipt for success:
Take a horse cart, a bicycle, a BMW, a MACK truck and the space shuttle. Now sit quietly for some time and cleverly devise ONE GUI to drive them all.
Good luck and may Linus watch over you!
55 • Convergence vs Users (by Stan on 2015-10-20 13:35:58 GMT from Europe)
I'm curious to see how convergence will succeed battling against standard file formats, vendor locking and DRM.
56 • Review of Linux Lite (by Torrey on 2015-10-20 15:00:49 GMT from North America)
In defense of my distro of choice, Linux Lite is light, just as Xfce based distros tend to be. Is it as light as LXDE, LXQt, Openbox, Evolution? No. But it is lighter than KDE, Gnome, and Unity. It's perhaps on par with MATE.
Linux Lite is not the fountain of youth, but it can do a lot, I repeat, a lot with PCs from 2007 and younger. I know from personal experience. That is just where the benefits begin. Ease of use, documentation, and an active, friendly, knowledgeable distro forum for support, are the cherries on top.
Linux Lite might not be the answer for distro hoppers, but quite frankly, distro hoppers are not necessarily the target audience. Lite is for those PC users who have a Windows based PC and they want something better without having to buy a new PC altogether. They've heard about Linux, but they don't know where to start. They want a familiar desktop experience they can install and get on with their lives. That is who Linux Lite attracts and maintains as users. And being just 3 years old, it's hitting that goal out of the park.
57 • @55 Stan (by lupus on 2015-10-20 15:37:36 GMT from Europe)
At first I was LOL about your comment, now I'm not so sure anymore.
Convergence should be good for us users cause in principle we would know where to find stuff in a comparable (not identical) environment! So what is there to fight against if the convergence is well done (Agreed today well done convergence doesn't exist) .
Standard file formats would be convenient if you mean open formats and could easily be part of any environment convergent or not. So a different matter not to be compared but we should clearly fight for it.
You can easily guess my standpoint towards DRM. You know what God says in the Bible about not forgiving....... He's against it and so I'm against DRM and the Bible cause I don't forgive so easily.
Now Vendor locking is a completly different matter as many users love their secluded Apple Island just as those hardcore gaming nerds love Windows. They have their reasons we have our own reasons to tell the undecided to come over and evolve to freedom. But if one knowingly chooses Vendor lockin he is completely well off paying the price for it. No freedom at all and no future security. So be it
Bye Lupus
58 • Pros and Cons in LK Team (by Kragle on 2015-10-20 16:51:05 GMT from North America)
40(by Tim Dowd)
"… Each team of developers just needs to agree beforehand how disputes will be settled and then stick to it.…"
Linus sets a clear rule - he's gentle for the first few mistakes, but repeating the same error (pattern implies deliberate) will be met with correction combined with increasing motivation - nothing personal, just whatever is required to obtain attention and compliance.
50•40(by Will B)
"I had a boss who … didn't have to cuss me out, he didn't have to shame me publicly or ride my behind to get good work or cooperation from me. …" - obviously you weren't the kind of team members Linus has to be forceful with.
You mention Jesus - what about when he took a scourge (aka cat-o'-nine-tails-whip) to money-changers inside a worship-zone? Perhaps nothing less would motivate compliance?
Many people are quick believe whiners (who haven't gotten their way) calling the gullible to their banner, instead of doing due diligence and researching context. Perhaps they're simply eager to assume the worst of others, and "drink the Kool-Aid", like readers of tabloids?
The Linux Kernel team is full of intelligent people, some of whom are passionate about what they do, none of whom are novices. Some are paid by organizations whose interests will never harmonize perfectly with the direction given. Endless energy expended on "kind and gentle" nice-ness on a sociopath is as wasted as light down a dark hole.
59 • what about those who did get their way? (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-20 20:26:54 GMT from North America)
@58
It's been less than a year since Debian lost two key developers who were pro systemd because those against it made their lives miserable.
Of course the minority can be wrong sometimes. But it doesn't change the fact that the story plays out over and over again across many projects (not just the Linux kernel people) and usually is because people see technical decisions as being the choice between absolute good and evil and they must vanquish their enemies.
It doesn't have to be this way. Decide beforehand how you're going to settle disputes, stick to the process, and banish anyone who isn't willing to follow the rules everyone agreed to. Do it transparently and then "the whiners" should be obvious.
60 • Convergence (by M.Z. on 2015-10-20 20:45:57 GMT from North America)
@45 - Convergence
Some good thoughtful points in the blog post you linked to & I agree with much of it. Convergence as a one size fits all solution will never work, at least not well. But if it is done in a way that minimizes work across platforms & retains common design elements while being context sensitive, then you can get something useful that works. I think KDE gets it right here while others tend to fail.
61 • ssd support (by Richard Kerns on 2015-10-20 22:54:12 GMT from North America)
I would like to hear from Distrowatch, an informed opinion, about present linux support for ssd drives. For example, is there some reason that a Kingston HyperX Predator might perform better in Windows than in linux, given the same hardware which otherwise works well in either OS. The Predator is a PCIe 2.0 solution on an adapter card. I am also wondering about PCIe 3.0 drives, the M.2 form factor and Sata III, all as supported by linux.
Thank you,
Richard
62 • moral hack attacks (by syko Linus on 2015-10-20 23:39:31 GMT from Oceania)
Linus better be careful who gets on the wrong end of his poor social skills. He could end up with garbage dumped outside home, anonymous calls, emails intercepted, computers hacked, work stolen, car tracked, home bugged, and family followed. There are some tech syko ppls who do these kinds of things - their social skills are not much better, but they see themselves as hacker vigilantes for good moral behavior.
63 • Additional search items, UEFI and GPT (by Jim Black on 2015-10-21 01:03:13 GMT from North America)
With the coming ubiquity of UEFI motherboards, it would be nice to have notes on distributions comfortable with UEFI and GPT partitioning. You are already covering the 32bit/64bit dichotomy. All of my present computers have the UEFI and I find the GPT partitioning scheme preferable to the ancient MBR system. With time, ALL distributions will need to support GPT and UEFI but for now, knowing which do and which do not would be helpful.
Thank you.
64 • Searching for UEFI (by Jesse on 2015-10-21 01:14:32 GMT from North America)
You can already search for UEFI support (and Secure Boot) support. We add those features earlier this year. If you missed the announcement, you can search for EFIbootmanager and the Shim packages on the Search page. As for GPT, any distro that supports EFI should also support GPT.
65 • 62: Watching out (by kernelKurtz on 2015-10-21 03:04:31 GMT from North America)
The sykf*ucks you're talking about generally don't go after big game. They're cowards who go after those that they think are weaker. That ain't Linus.
If Ms. Sharp (or a dozen of her) wants to feel offended and leave, that's legit. So is doing it unquietly--even loudly.
What isn't legit is expecting a decades-old project to conform to anyone's tender standards about what is offensive. Linux is what it is, and most of the credit or blame for that goes to one guy, and his idiosyncratic way of dealing with the world.
Don't like it, go fork yourself. If you've got the chops.
66 • Tired of Political Correctness (by Jackie on 2015-10-21 04:02:10 GMT from North America)
Does EVERY interaction in every forum have to be about "inclusiveness" and non-threatening, mealy-mouthed political-correctness these days? It is really becoming tiresome.
Civility is a virtue that often eases communication. There is no need to outright bully someone to put them on the defensive. But the world is being choked by all this demand to never offend anyone. There is no freedom in communication when you have to weigh your words so heavily, to try to not offend this group or that group. Often the most benign little mention is greeted with outrage or upset when no offense was intended.
Freedom of Expression is already dead in this society. I fear it is too late. We have already become a bunch of zombies, afraid to speak our mind for fear of upsetting someone, somewhere, that we don't even know and had no intention to even address them.
I APPLAUD Linus for being willing to speak his mind, and actually HAVE some convictions, unlike the vast majority of mindless conformists that inhabit this world.
67 • Political Correctness (by Antony on 2015-10-21 14:54:13 GMT from Europe)
#66
Wholeheartedly agree with your feelings. I wanted to comment on the topic, but you have exactly put my feelings into words - and made a better/more coherent job of it than I would have managed - thanks.
68 • re: 59 • what about those who did get their way? (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-20 20:2 (by the card says "consultant" on 2015-10-21 16:59:39 GMT from Europe)
> Decide beforehand how you're going to settle disputes, stick to the process, and banish anyone who isn't willing to follow the rules everyone agreed to.
Tim, you ignorant twit! That's exactly what the Linux kernel (and Debian, and on) did! If "everyone agreed," there'd be no need for rules, now would there? If The Rules have already been settled, then there can never be reason to question them, ever, again, can there? It's newcomers (none dare call them interlopers, vagabonds, and thieves) that don't like the (current) process of ruling The Rules of The Process, who are "whining"! Now, fsck off and do some work! Not expend some(one else's) effort, but you (yes you laddy!) accomplish some work!
(STEM morlocks superstitiously claim that there's a difference between "work" and other terms, now, known to be interchangeable with "work." That's why they/i> have no place in The Process.)
69 • thanks for proving my point (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-22 00:27:59 GMT from North America)
@ 68
I think your comment is exhibit A of what's wrong with the discussion that happens in the FOSS community. It's not "political correctness" to say that people shouldn't call each other ignorant twits for no good reason. It's basic decency.
In your rage you've entirely missed my point. The "rules everyone agreed to" are not technical rules, they're conduct rules. In the recent Debian systemd debate a technical decision was made to adopt systemd. A lot of people went ballistic and dragged the developers through the mud and forced an unprecedented reconsidering of their decision (it still passed.) And a few quit because it pissed them off so much.
Rules that everyone should be able to agree to are to limit debate to technical points, to stop fighting dead issues, and yes, to probably agree not to call random people ignorant twits. I don't think it's too much to ask.
70 • opinions (by pcninja on 2015-10-22 01:19:41 GMT from North America)
It is sad that we live in a world where having a different opinion could cause WW3.
71 • Conduct (by Kragle on 2015-10-22 09:31:02 GMT from North America)
For card-carrying "consultant": chill. Tim's being 'deliberately ignorant' is just another tactic. Stay civil; do not feed the troll.
And next time please check your HTML syntax before posting.
For Tim:
"…for no good reason…" No good reason? Really?
"…stop fighting dead issues…" Dead according to whom?
"… call random people …" Random? Wasn't a specific twit named?
So your opinion is the only one of any import then?
72 • Convergence (by Shashi Warrier on 2015-10-22 12:16:14 GMT from Asia)
The present bunch of convergent systems - including Windows 10 - offer very few customization options. A UI that can be customized would take care of a wide range of devices.
73 • RE: outstanding distro's list (by Andulicsta-PA on 2015-10-22 12:34:52 GMT from North America)
@14
I truly enjoyed reading your outstanding comment about your list of outstanding distros. And please allow me to add several more distros to the list:
Tiny Core, SliTaz, Porteus, KolibriOS, SparkyLinux, Elive, Antergos, Mangaka, Solus, Voyager and Exe GNU/Linux
74 • troll? (by Tim Dowd on 2015-10-22 14:45:18 GMT from North America)
I just want to make sure I understand this correctly: I'm a troll (and a twit) because I suggested that debates over technical issues should not become personal attacks and that there needs to be a process for deciding when a debate is over.
I've gotta admit... I can't follow that logic at all. What are you even angry about?
Are you mad I brought up systemd? I don't have a strong opinion on such, other than that the debate was pointlessly nasty. Here's the resignation notes from two developers who quit during that fiasco
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00071.html
https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/on_leaving/
If you note, they make the same points I do, specifically that it wasn't clear on how decisions were made and it was emotionally exhausting.
My opinion on any FOSS topic is of no import whatsoever to anyone other than me. I never claimed it was But in large projects, there needs to be some mechanism of deciding something and then ending debate civilly. I frankly don't care what it is. The people running the project simply need to set this out ahead of time. Ideally different distros or different competing applications make big decisions differently so that choice remains for the user, but of course it's up to the actual developers, who shouldn't be abused for their decisions.
When is a topic dead? According to whom? It's dead according to what the project, using its mechanism for deciding things, has said it's a done deal.
None of this is really controversial. I'm not really sure what's ticking you off about it, but given that this seems to be getting increasingly (and pointlessly) toxic I'm going to bow out.
75 • Slingblade (by fooling around on 2015-10-24 00:09:45 GMT from Europe)
" It is sad that we live in a world where having a different opinion could cause WW3."
heaven is better than this rock of fools.
76 • Politically Correct ... after Jobs, & now Linus? (by Greg Zeng on 2015-10-24 02:48:12 GMT from North America)
Every social unit: Mono, Duo, Small-group, Large-group, population has compulsory "LAWS OF GROUP BEHAVIOUR". These have been mathematically defined by experts over the centuries, and are academically published for everyone to view & comment. I abandoned Pure Mathematics at the University of Adelaide in 1969, for participant-observer research, so we can see that humans are slowly learning that word-communications are better than physical actions, but little is understood about words, & the types of words. (Computerese: words are logic collections of bytes; bytes are logical collections of bits. mathematics, genetics, etc all have their own categorization methods).
Linus is not a black-negro, so his injection of emotion into words is by keyboard-word-selection, rather than para-verbals or other types of meta-verbals. Amongst white "educated" men, use of impolite swear words is the way that they express emotion. Femocrats (white non-violent "civilization") demand that everything has to become "Femocrat-polite", otherwise it is violent-assault, as documented by the USA's MGTOW activists on the Internet in very recent years.
Japan and other "civilized" peoples are heavily over-socialized into political correctness. This creates an IBM ("I've Been Moved") management culture which knowingly & historically has created stagnation: Democratic Dominance of all meritocracies, by the Mediocre Majority. Good-bye Linus. Good-bye Steve Jobs.
Some of us colored people are waiting for the decades ahead when the educated people might discover the expressions for human emotions, which are not coded in Political-Correctness. "EDUCATION" is brain-washing into emotionless, deadpan, "boring" Political-Correctness". Tiger-Mothers of East-Asia are the envy of the gawking white observers who are totally ignorant of natural human emotion.
As I mentioned earlier, in @4 above, and other internet postings in my name, many of we un-educated third-world people are dreading your white, civilized democracies. The whities of Australia gave me six-years "Hard-Labour" imprisonment for a moneyless, victimless "drug-crime", in Sydney, 1975. Instead of allowing my full-time work in medical research and charities to continue. Such is educated white arrogance.
Academic histories will show how primitive the idiots of C20 are. Hopefully the youngsters of C21 will have some form of large-government civilization (not 2016-USA-Republican-Small-Government) that allows capitalist-free research to happen. And with emotional humanity, mathematically moved from Pure-Maths to the real-world.
Jobs is an early young death. Punishment for legally stealing ideas from Xerox, Lg Prada (iPhone), Samsung, and many others. Linus next? If USA-Political-Correctness legally, democratically ... wins again.
77 • @76 Errr... (by Hoos on 2015-10-24 06:06:40 GMT from Asia)
@Greg Zeng
Your posts are always interesting but often leave me scratching my head.
And often you'll be making one point, then throw in something that makes me think, "huh? what has that got to do with the rest?", or "so is he for or against [an idea]?".
So it is with your last paragraph. I don't really get how the 1st 2 sentences tie in with everything else in your post. He had a terminal disease. So now you're saying it was karma, it was deserved? Then how is it the fault of the PC-zealots?
I don't have information or knowledge to comment on the actual kernel mailing list furore.
However, I do think one can be civil to a person while still frankly, even brutally, criticising the persons' idea/submission, ie attack the idea not the person. It is possible to be civil and not be a politically-correct zealot.
Another thought - survival of the most thick-skinned may not mean survival of the best or most skilled.
Like in all things, I believe striking a balance is important, but that is easier said than done. Seeing it from the other side, when you have so much to do and so little time to do them in, it's natural to get short and brusque. That may not necessarily be a personal attack.
78 • context matters (by M.Z. on 2015-10-24 08:24:41 GMT from North America)
In all this talk of 'political correctness vs free speech' I want to point out one stupidly obvious fact, context matters. Where I'm from you have the right to say whatever you want to who ever you want so long as you don't threaten anyone or incite violence & it's protected in the constitution. This happens all day everyday & people say whatever they want be it insightful or stupid all the time, & if they do it on their own time no one cares. If on the other hand you say something rude or nasty to a customer in a store you're working at you can get fired. This has to do with things like professionalism, corporate image, & customer service. You can say whatever on your free time, but a level of professionalism is expected in other settings where you could be seen as representing someone else. The only question is if the mailing list is rougher than it should be. It's simple a question of the degree of formality that is appropriate in the mailing list & has nothing to do with freedom of thought etc. All the talk about stiffing thought is nonsense, say what you want to whoever you want as long as it's on your own time & you aren't acting as a public face for some organization.
@66
"Freedom of Expression is already dead in this society."
That's an absolutely absurd statement if I've ever heard one. In my country Vice Present Cheney had a guy walk up to him & say something like 'F^@# You!' right to his face & nothing happened. I think the cops walked up to the guy & made sure he wasn't violent or crazy, but they let him go & nothing bad happened to him. What more proof do you need that people can say what they want & have the freedom of speech? I know for a fact that the fist amendment is alive & well in my country no matter what foolish nay sayers claim.
79 • Linus (by Rob Solomon on 2015-10-24 13:01:16 GMT from North America)
To put the kernel mailing list behavior in perspective, I have thought for a long time that Linus is autistic. He just cannot understand the basics of social interactions. He never will. The failure is biological.
However, this does not explain the behaviors of others, who are probably not autistic.
80 • Diagnosis (@79) (by Jordan on 2015-10-24 13:07:29 GMT from North America)
That diagnosis is not meant to excuse his behavior, I know. But it
could well be something other than that, which he may share with
those "others." Perhaps his behavior can be excused and perhaps
not.
Lots of words come to mind, but "jerk" is the SFW term. I used to
work for one of those. The female version is referred to as a
"bee-yatch."
Meanwhile, there is too much in the way of wisdom coming from
his efforts, to worry about his printed word behaviors etc. IMO.
81 • Context natters (by Somewhat Reticent on 2015-10-24 17:19:07 GMT from North America)
Context does indeed matter, though many ignore it and pontificate anyway. Of course, in so doing (having declined to perform due diligence, however light the homework), they demo folly. And a fool in the midst of doing folly is rarely receptive to correction.
For the rest of the audience, then:
One common assumption (by omission) here is that Linus expends the effort required for verbal/written chastisement ... without (sufficient) cause.
Another assumption (again by omission) is that verbal/written sparring using salty language somehow cannot possibly be civil or friendly (i.e. must be taken 'personally', must be destructive); one corollary being that bullying using politically-correct language skills is somehow preferable thereto.
Any thoughtful, reasoned comments (on LKML) showing due diligence, then?
.
82 • Linux Lite: Satisfied Customer! (by Eddystone on 2015-10-25 05:49:58 GMT from North America)
My hardware is always a few heartbeats behind state of the art, and I am always looking for distributions that can do everything without all the whizbang stuff. A couple of years ago, I tried Linux Lite and have been very satisfied with it ever since through a couple of versions. All of the software is quite current, and I am very happy with the XFCE desktop. I am the "go-to" computer person for a small group of family and friends. For some reason, Linux Lite seems to be more readily accepted and used by elderly friends and those who couldn't care less about how an operating system functions. I can't really explain this, but things are just laid out in a non-threatening and logical manner that people can work with. This is especially true when the XFCE Whisker Menu is set up to display the application's function rather than its name. I use Linux Lite as my everyday operating system on several machines and have never found myself limited in any manner despite its thrifty use of system resources. It is stable, flexible and a pleasure to use. It is very apparent that the developers really made an effort to anticipate problems a user might encounter and to te up every loose end they could find. This is why I have recommended Linux Lite several times in the Distrowatch comment section. I am very happy with it.
83 • KaOS (by Smartbyte Systems, Inc. on 2015-10-25 16:31:46 GMT from North America)
Most people I talk to are impressed with KaOS Plasma 5 Distros but the install grub doesn't work well on most systems.
So the best work around is to install MINT linux 1st and then install KaOS
You can then update the grub in MINT linux which will import the KaOS into its own menu
The other alternative to this would be to install another plasma 5 linux Distro
84 • RE: #73, #14 - outstanding distro's list (by frtux on 2015-10-25 16:55:53 GMT from Europe)
The outstanding distro's list would not be complete without the inclusion of Paldo, a rolling release, Gnome centric desktop that usually has an updated iso available in the same day a new release is distributed upstream.
Number of Comments: 84
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Archives |
| • Issue 1160 (2026-02-16): Noid and AgarimOS, command line tips, KDE Linux introduces delta updates, Redox OS hits development milestone, Linux Mint develops a desktop-neutral account manager, sudo developer seeks sponsorship |
| • Issue 1159 (2026-02-09): Sharing files on a network, isolating processes on Linux, LFS to focus on systemd, openSUSE polishes atomic updates, NetBSD not likely to adopt Rust code, COSMIC roadmap |
| • Issue 1158 (2026-02-02): Manjaro 26.0, fastest filesystem, postmarketOS progress report, Xfce begins developing its own Wayland window manager, Bazzite founder interviewed |
| • Issue 1157 (2026-01-26): Setting up a home server, what happened to convergence, malicious software entering the Snap store, postmarketOS automates hardware tests, KDE's login manager works with systemd only |
| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
| • Issue 1144 (2025-10-20): Kubuntu 25.10, creating and restoring encrypted backups, Fedora team debates AI, FSF plans free software for phones, ReactOS addresses newer drivers, Xubuntu reacts to website attack |
| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
| • Issue 1142 (2025-10-06): Linux Kamarada 15.6, managing ZIP files with SQLite, F-Droid warns of impact of Android lockdown, Alpine moves ahead with merged /usr, Cinnamon gets a redesigned application menu |
| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
| • Issue 1137 (2025-09-01): Tribblix 0m37, malware scanners flagging Linux ISO files, KDE introduces first-run setup wizard, CalyxOS plans update prior to infrastructure overhaul, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Issue 1129 (2025-07-07): GLF OS Omnislash, the worst Linux distro, Alpine introduces Wayback, Fedora drops plans to stop i686 support, AlmaLinux builds EPEL repository for older CPUs, Ubuntu dropping existing RISC-V device support, Rhino partners with UBports, PCLinuxOS recovering from website outage |
| • Issue 1128 (2025-06-30): AxOS 25.06, AlmaLinux OS 10.0, transferring Flaptak bundles to off-line computers, Ubuntu to boost Intel graphics performance, Fedora considers dropping i686 packages, SDesk switches from SELinux to AppArmor |
| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
| • Issue 1126 (2025-06-16): SDesk 2025.05.06, renewed interest in Ubuntu Touch, a BASIC device running NetBSD, Ubuntu dropping X11 GNOME session, GNOME increases dependency on systemd, Google holding back Pixel source code, Nitrux changing its desktop, EFF turns 35 |
| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
| • Issue 1124 (2025-06-02): Picking up a Pico, tips for protecting privacy, Rhino tests Plasma desktop, Arch installer supports snapshots, new features from UBports, Ubuntu tests monthly snapshots |
| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Ubuntu Rescue Remix
Ubuntu Rescue Remix was a GNU/Linux live system which runs from CD or USB Flash device. It provides the data recovery specialist with a command-line interface environment equipped with some of the best free and open source data recovery and forensics tools available.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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