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1 • iso file (by Bill on 2015-10-05 00:01:28 GMT from North America)
Not sure if my post went through.
I use an old Download Manager I bought in Windows XP days.
It runs fine in Wine, and gives me accelerated multiple segments.
I can get 1.5 gigs iso in 25 or 30 mins.
2 • linux preloaded (by Steanne on 2015-10-05 00:08:08 GMT from North America)
http://linuxpreloaded.com/ keeps a handy list of vendors that sell machines with linux preinstalled, though they seem to be missing compulab.
3 • iso downloads (by SlaxFan on 2015-10-05 01:09:29 GMT from North America)
I prefer using axel and a few mirrors at the same time for accelerated multiple segments. I'd use bittorrent but I tend to find new versions to download before I can find the torrents.
4 • re tip on removing dot-files (by Noobie on 2015-10-05 01:30:13 GMT from North America)
The tip on removing dot files was informative, but the wording re use of noatime was confusing/ambiguous. When you say noatime should NOT be "set" in your /etc/fstab, do you mean the actual word "noatime" SHOULD be present in the line for the relevant mount point, or that the actual word "noatime" should NOT exist on the line for the relevant mount point? I guess it is the use of the word "set" that is ambiguous.
My understanding is that if the term noatime is on a line for a relevant mount point, than access times will NOT be tracked. Presumably there may be some advantages for this behaviour, such as faster access times?
If I follow the logic properly, your example to clear some dot files depends on time stamps to determine whether or not to remove a given dot file, so "atime" would have to be "enabled" (is THAT what you mean by "set") to make the determination; and to "enable" atime, you don't want the term "noatime" in the line for the relevant mount point? This seems to indicate that atime (ie - no word "atime" or noatime") is the "default", and to turn access time logging "off", you insert the word "noatime" on the line for the relevant mount point"??
I find no manpage for noatime, so being new at this, not sure under what heading the documentation would be covered.
English can be sooo confusing and ambiguous at times......
5 • Getting ISO files / OpenIndiana (by Will B on 2015-10-05 02:47:33 GMT from North America)
Thank you DistroWatch team for another fine DistroWatch Weekly.
[ Getting ISOs ]
I would use torrents for ISO retrieval, but it often seems it's slower than grabbing an ISO from a web page sometimes. What's more, when I *do* use torrent for downloads, it practically kills my internet connection for other applications (and other users on the LAN) because my connection appears to be saturated. For me, download over http or ftp works best.
[ OpenIndiana ]
Nice to see an update for OI after all this while. Almost worth downloading except I have a Radeon card, and they appear to not support that just yet. (sigh)
6 • Poll (by bison on 2015-10-05 02:58:46 GMT from North America)
Other: wget
7 • Searching for torrents: QBITTORRENT (by Greg Zeng on 2015-10-05 03:23:02 GMT from Oceania)
Most Linux distribution creators do not understand how torrents work. If you use normal torrent searching, you will get many evil, bad & false torrents.
Using Linux's common tools (Transmission, etc), which forces you to use often dangerous torrents.
In the Linux world, the most popular Torrent tool, for searching AND downloads, is Qbittorent. This is unknown to nearly all distro creators. As their website write: "qBittorrent runs and provides the same features on all major platforms (Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, OS/2, Free". This combined search & download tool can be controlled from other sites, so can run easily from a remote (Linux) server.
So if you want a fast, reliable download of most Linux distributions (PCLOS, Netrunner, Manjaro, etc), it is so easy, safe & quick, using most common computer operating systems.
8 • @ 4 (by GuntherT on 2015-10-05 03:39:26 GMT from North America)
Read this for more information on 'atime options':
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fstab
9 • Bittorrent or web download (by M.Z. on 2015-10-05 04:46:19 GMT from North America)
I usually try Bittorrent if the option is available, or download directly via my browser. I find the torrent option is usually much better for recently released & big name distros, while less popular distros are just as fast or even faster using a direct download link.
@7
Why bother searching when there is a link for the torrent on the web page? Frankly I've never bothered to search for anything in a torrent downloading program & don't want to as I'm looking for a reputable seed file. I think qBittorrent is installed by default on my Mageia partition, but I've never bothered with the search feature. The fact is you can get a reputable seed file every time if you get it from a reputable website, so why bother searching? I want to do a little homework on a new distro before I download it anyway, so I'm going to be on their website. It is easier & safer just to click the torrent link on the official site & open it in KTorrent (or whatever you prefer). I suppose there could be some advantages to using qBittorrent that way, but I think it's a bit better doing things without the search.
10 • atime options (by Noobie on 2015-10-05 04:47:27 GMT from North America)
8 - GuntherT
Thanks for the tip. THAT manpage answered ALL my questions. Also learned some valuable new things like the relatime option. Interesting that there can be so much difference from one manpage to another for the same topic. Guess the distro, and especially the version number of the manpage would account for that.
11 • Install ISO (by Zork on 2015-10-05 04:53:04 GMT from Oceania)
Prefer downloading using Torrents from the Distro Creator ( Currently using Ubuntu ) and then creating a bootable USB...
Saves the hassle burning a disk and I'll know that I can use it on any computer with "Boot from USB" without having to worry about the integrity of the burn or differences in the DVD drives... Had too many incidents where a burned disc won't read on some machines but will read on others...
12 • ( • 5 • 7 • ) ISO download/use methods (by Somewhat Reticent on 2015-10-05 05:03:39 GMT from North America)
Some torrent clients use all available bandwidth and have no obvious way to manage their greed - "trickle" may help, not only with torrents, but with other apps, on Linux/BSD/Solaris.
Sometimes I have to download directly in order to set up a torrent.
I have never been "forced to use" any "dangerous torrents" by a torrent client. (Of course, I don't assume torrent tech is private or secure.) I have found some clients' functionality inconsistent across platforms.
* Some who wish to test or demonstrate may have more challenging expectations from geekdom, as demonstrated by Linux versions of multiboot tools YUMI, MultiBootUSB, and Easy2Boot, which clearly show it's never necessary to bulldoze everything else on a drive just to add one (more) ISO (preferably with a per-ISO persistence option) and that it should be easy for the user.
13 • Download (by lupus on 2015-10-05 05:13:21 GMT from Europe)
Always Torrent if provided.
It is only a little bit slower (much slower if obscure) but time shouldn't be the main factor, giving back to the maintainer should be.
Leave the torrent running until nobody downloaded snippets for 2 complete days or the distrbution factor reaches the 100s then I think you can stop the feed.
Always check the md5 before using!
I mostly have up to 10 Torrents in my queue (uploading) and it doesn't harm Networking speed at all.
So please use Torrents and you are already giving back beside donations that is
Bye Lupus
14 • Downloading ISOs (by hobbitland on 2015-10-05 05:22:21 GMT from Europe)
I always use web download and sometimes aria2c for parallel downloads. Most of the time I just use single thread download as its fast enough
15 • android (by peer on 2015-10-05 06:32:01 GMT from Europe)
I run android 4.4 on my EEEpc (1000H).
It starts quickly and runs good and stable. Not all apps works but may do.
The cursor on the screen is small circle instead of a arrow. When I move my finger on the touchpad the cursor moves on the screen. Swiping is done with the left touchpadbutton and moving my finger on the tochpad. Zooming in and out can be done with two fingers on the touchpad.
When I plug in a mouse I see the standard arrow. I can move and swipe. Unfortunately I do not know the tric for zooming.
I tried several linux distributions om the EEEpc (peppermint, debian xfce) but now I am used to android on my pc. I prefer android for my EEEpc
16 • android (by peer on 2015-10-05 06:40:26 GMT from Europe)
on my pc I have installed Genymotion. It works also with virtualbox but has its own starter. Unfortunately on my pc Genymotion is not stable at all. This has to do with the graphic card (radeon HD 7750).
17 • Android-x86 (by Johannes on 2015-10-05 06:45:17 GMT from Europe)
Thank you for reviewing Android-x86, and as usual for a very interesting DWW issue. The Android-x86 team is apparently working on porting Lollipop (Android 5.1), looking forward to all these improvements. Maybe one day Android-x86 ends up being a really popular distribution...
18 • Dotfiles Gone Wild (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2015-10-05 07:15:21 GMT from North America)
There is so much data breeding in dotfiles that I take an aggressive approach.
First learn the handful of FreeDesktop.org $XDG_ vars. You can set them in profile.d scripts or for that matter pam_env.conf.
Decide if you can throw any XDG's in tmpfs, say $XDG_CACHE_HOME. If you have the RAM and don't mind slight sluggishness on first use of menus in the DE, try it. Cleaning is automatic because tmpfs disappears on reboot. Cache runs faster from RAM anyway.
Persistent files you want to keep -- retain a list or its complement/inverse. Script to save or delete everything indicated by whichever list. It can run at shutdown or logout.
You can massage some keepers, e.g. strip "recent documents" lines but keeping the dotfile. Some apps may have a CLI command equivalent that your script can use.
19 • android-x86 resolution (by peer on 2015-10-05 07:47:47 GMT from Europe)
The resolution of android-x86 in virtualbox can be changed:
https://4sysops.com/archives/change-the-screen-resolution-of-an-android-virtualbox-vm/
I just did this.
In the text you have to search for a textfragment video=-16 in the first line that starts withe kernel . It was not there.
I inserted the line: "video=-16 UVESA_MODE=1280x800" before SRC in that line and it works.
20 • Find old dotfiles (by PePa on 2015-10-05 07:53:36 GMT from Asia)
When using Bash as a shell, I like setting GLOBIGNORE='..' so that * doesn't get resolved to .. (parent directory) as well. A side effect I like, is that it automatically sets dotglob to be on (so that dotfiles are included with *). These Bash shell settings can be reviewed by "shopt".
Then looking for those old dotfiles is just:
find ~ -depth -atime +365 -ctime +365 -type f
(I included -ctime +365 because it found a newly created file that had never been accessed yet!)
If you don't want to always set GLOBIGNORE, you can run:
GLOBIGNORE='..' find ~ -depth -atime +365 -ctime +365 -type f
This avoids the ugly constuction with the for loop.
21 • @20 • Find old dotfiles (by PePa on 2015-10-05 07:57:35 GMT from Asia)
To amend comment #20, ~ finds all files in the home directory... You need to use .* to only find dotfiles:
GLOBIGNORE='..' find ~ -depth -atime +365 -ctime +365 -type f
(To delete what you find, add -delete)
22 • @20 @21 Find old dotfiles (by PePa on 2015-10-05 08:00:36 GMT from Asia)
Sigh...
GLOBIGNORE='..' find .* -depth -atime +365 -ctime +365 -type f
23 • Ubuntu installer (by Kurt on 2015-10-05 10:05:23 GMT from Oceania)
It's all very nice to have a consistent UI, but it would be far better to make it more functional.
For one thing Ubuntu's support for RAID installations is effectively non-existent, sure the installer will recognise software RAID if you create it separately.
But it won't copy the required driver packages to the newly created install leaving you with an unbootable system.
24 • RE: purchasing computers with Linux Mint pre-installed (by Guzelaydin on 2015-10-05 10:16:31 GMT from North America)
"Historically, it has been difficult to purchase a computer with Linux pre-installed on the hard drive"
DISTROWATCH's above statement is hardly true, as I recall seeing desktop computers pre-loaded with a distro called Lindows (later renamed Linspire) on sale at a number of stores everywhere, including at Walmart, in the early years of 2000snds .....
However, once they got home; the first thing majority of those people (who bought those comparetively affordable linux desktops) reportedly did, was to replace Linux with a version of Window they had pirated :)
25 • >*.iso (by zykoda on 2015-10-05 11:32:07 GMT from Europe)
I use wget from bash.
26 • Affordable Linux box (by Justiniano on 2015-10-05 12:31:41 GMT from Asia)
An AMD A4 Kabini-5000 mini-ITX board can be ordered for under 60 from NE,... Strong enough for Fedora/Korora. 4M, antiX and Simplicity are just one snap.
27 • Old dotfiles (by a on 2015-10-05 13:40:48 GMT from Europe)
Not sure if finding obsolete dotfiles based on their access time works. Wouldn’t any backup, or search (grep) on the home dir, set the access time to now?
28 • ISO acquisition (by solt87 on 2015-10-05 13:56:52 GMT from Europe)
- Debian discs (my desktop OS): jigdo
- everything else via torrent (if available), or wget
29 • Wal-mart PCs and old dot files (by Jesse on 2015-10-05 13:59:37 GMT from North America)
@24: I would like to point out that one store selling computers with Linux does not mean disprove my point. A number of retailers (Wal-Mart, NewEgg, Dell) have tried selling Linux PCs. However, usually these are very low-end machines and hard for the consumer to find. You usually need to specifically search for Linux and then the options are very limited. That is why I mentioned it was difficult to purchase computers with Linux pre-installed. The options are almost always bad and difficult to locate. That the options exist doesn't make them easy or appealing for the consumer.
@27: A grep or backup may update the access time, but that is sort of the point. If you are still grepping through your dot files and/or backing them up, then you probably want to keep them, since you're clearly still accessing them. The check for access time is ideal as it will only remove files that you are no longer using.
30 • No touch sreeen? (by davemci on 2015-10-05 15:39:31 GMT from North America)
Hey Jesse, I thought that laptop of yours has a touch screen. Did it not work with Android-x86 or did you not try it for this review?
31 • @27 access time of dotfiles (by Pearson on 2015-10-05 17:17:07 GMT from North America)
Jesse, I generally agree with your point about access time being viable. However, if I execute:
$ find $HOME -type f -exec grep foo '{}' +
then the access time of my otherwise unused dotfiles would be bumped. It's a corner case, to be sure, but I use that command a *lot*. I don't know whether updatedb (to build the locate command's database) would also bump the access time, but I'd guess that it does.
32 • Android-x86 (by More Gee on 2015-10-05 17:22:04 GMT from North America)
Hello Jesse,
How big was the install size and how large was the VM and how much memory does the VM need?
Can you tell it to not format the partition (in this case VFAT) so that it can be installed on puppy partition or a USB drive?
Can you set the windows key to bring up the on screen keyboard?
Thanks
33 • ISO downloads (by Marco on 2015-10-05 18:42:51 GMT from North America)
Dailies: zsync
Otherwise: FTP/HTTP through a web browser
34 • Android x86 on Windows tablet (by J_L on 2015-10-05 19:14:26 GMT from North America)
Bought a Chuwi Vi8 recently that works surprisingly well dual-booting Windows 8.1 and Android 4.4.4 by default... I'm probably not going to upgrade to Windows 10 or Android x86 Lolipop (when it comes out) simply due to how unpredictable it can be, the amount of disk space used up, and lack of incentives to do so.
35 • Android X86 4.4 r3 with USB persistence (by USB Multiboot Light Speed 32 on 2015-10-05 20:04:00 GMT from North America)
You can try Android X86 4.4 r3 via USB without installing to hard disk.
http://www.gooplusplus.com/multiboot-2015-lite-speed-32/
36 • ISO downloading (by mikef90000 on 2015-10-05 21:19:28 GMT from North America)
I would like to use torrents more but I often encounter only one or two slow peers that are seeding. It seems like reputable, bandwidth 'rich' distro mirror sites would gain by hosting torrent seeds, but with the possible side effect that Clueless Large ISPs *cough*comcast*timewarner*at&t*cough* would arbitrarily block them.
Fallback to browser FTP/HTTP download using best available mirror. Oh well.
37 • ISO downloading (by lashley on 2015-10-05 22:25:33 GMT from North America)
I will always use a bittorrent if available, if not I use the web browser download. Have been fortunate that over the last year or so that both bandwidth and successful downloads are consistent.
I do occasionally use wget, a terminal based command-line download, works well with specific hosting sites.
38 • Linux pre-installed (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2015-10-06 00:39:04 GMT from North America)
Don't ThinkPenguin and LinuCity also have mail-order Linux computers? Since Linux is often about choice, one factor to consider is just which distros (and which versions) are supported by the hardware chosen. Location is another …
Some vendors use "bundling with Ubuntu" to dump obsolete/non-competitive inventory - does the vendor actually provide support? Is only one version provided/supported?
For that matter, what will happen to used computers with wi-fi when the FCC makes them all illegal?
39 • Ubuntu UI changes; comment not approved by Canonical, reposted here (by Paul on 2015-10-06 00:57:42 GMT from Europe)
All well and good but there’s something ironic about tarting up first impressions while ignoring all the remaining impressions of Unity. Like a great many others I abandoned Ubuntu for Linux Mint because I hated it. I have used Ubuntu since about 2005; still use the server version.
I have to admire the almost Jobsian chutzpah that underlies the “We know better than you” approach to UI design, and I get the underlying logic of cross-platform consistency. It may have led to Microsoft’s strategic disaster with Windows 8 which could prove a downward inflections point from which it never really recovers.
But even Microsoft corrects its mistakes (and makes new ones).
Canonical’s pig-headedness about Unity, when it has corrected other mistakes (Amazon search, the hopeless app store e.g.) is hard to fathom and it makes the subject of this article fairly “so what” to those who have given up and switched to Mint. This was an entirely avoidable, self-inflicted mistake. I might have stuck it out if it was even possible to put the Unity toolbar at the bottom of the screen on a desktop. But no, we know better than you drove large numbers to Mint. I no longer know anyone using Ubuntu on the desktop (I work in IT; I have known many; we’ve given up).
So… This is all very nice, but… It’s solving the wrong problem. Ubuntu could and should have remained the nr 1 distro on the desktop. This isn’t going to turn that around. Nor is it going to overturn Android.
Bug Nr 1 for a lot of people is Canonical’s approach to Unity. It is simply Stupidity.
Who wants a nice UI for installing that? It’s just being short-changed with a smile.
40 • preinstalls & Ubuntu (by M.Z. on 2015-10-06 04:39:42 GMT from North America)
I think the big names in preinstalled Linux are Zareason (who made my current laptop) & System 76 (who are a bit to stuck on Ubuntu for my tastes). They & ThinkPenguin all seem like decent options; however, all Linux specialty vendors share a common problem in that they are unknown to most potential users & focus on a tiny part of the market. For Linux to come anywhere near true competitiveness with MS & Apple they will need to be presented as genuine alternatives that are available at multiple price points & sold by big name computer companies both in big name stores & online. This is a far cry from the current situation & seems unlikely to change anytime soon, so I have to agree that Linux is rarely presented as a viable alternative. There may be options but few people know that they exist or would go out of their way to look for such alternatives.
@39 - Ubuntu & installers
I never like Unity myself, though I do think it is a bit better than Gnome 3 which it was meant to replace, so Ubuntu was somewhat successful in that regard. I prefer to think that the ongoing Amazon/spyware issues in Unity are doing more to drive away Ubuntu users than any basic DE flaws, though it's hard to say what the reality is. I also get the impression that Ubuntu is staying on top, though I personally would far prefer a more ethical distro maker who actually respect users privacy take the top spot. I think the big picture news here is that all the distros down stream of Ubuntu like Mint will either have to switch installers or start to maintain their own fork of the old installer.
41 • Linux Pre-Installed - - Many Options, Choices (by GregA on 2015-10-06 05:24:46 GMT from North America)
Getting ever easier to buy pre-installed Linux desktops, laptops, etc.
Just point your browser to:
http://linuxpreloaded.com/
42 • Linux Boxes (by Someguy on 2015-10-06 06:59:34 GMT from Europe)
Apart from laptops, can't understand why anybody would want to buy a Linux pre-installed desktop. Almost any tin box manufactured in the last decade-&-half will accept a new board. For those frightened of undertaking such a task, either get the kiddie next door to do it for you or buy a completely built and tested bundle from e.g. CCL (UK), NewEgg(US). They will also supply instructions, but scarcely necessary. Only a small electrical screwdriver is needed. Since the Linux .iso comes free, just what IS the problem?! Takes about 15mins, so even busy folks can find the time. Many times, don't even need a new PSU since new kit is more efficient/lower power demands. Need different cables (eg PATA-to-SATA)? Conversion cables cost pennies. Even old HDD s can be accommodated for a few schillings with a little plug-in device. Guys needing the latest video cards, bells, whistles, etc will already have the talents(?!) to implement their desires. Want a psychedelic case with flashing lights? Spray it with car paint, intercept an unused fan header, world = oyster...
43 • @ least 3 reasons (by M.Z. on 2015-10-06 08:58:50 GMT from North America)
@42 - reasons for Linux boxes
Well first off I have to acknowledge that a large majority of Linux users are tech savvy types that could easily put together their own PC. That being said there are at least 3 types of reasons ranging from the practical, to the economic, to the philosophical.
1 - the practical
Some people just don't fell like they have the time or inclination. If you aren't that into the guts of a PC or are pressed for time, it may just be easier to buy something already built. There could easily be timing issues that make it important to get a good PC sooner rather than later & have it in working condition ASAP. There is also the factor that some people have plenty of money to burn & just find it easier to pay up. Also I'm not buying the whole 'get someone else to do it' thing. There is no guarantee that you have a tech savvy neighbor/friend/etc. who wants to help.
2 - the economic
If you have any kind of problem at all with the near monopoly status of the current PC operation system market, you would probably like to see something like Linux become a viable alternative for normal users. Sure you could also get a Mac, but that is just another form of vendor lock in with a hardware specific OS. Only having 2 highly visible options isn't really good for any potentially competitive market.
3 - the philosophical
If you care about what free & open software stands for philosophically & the ways it benefits users, then you likely want more users to have free & open software. I would like everyone to know that there are choices & that some options put you in control of your own computer far more than others. Sadly I don't think most people have heard of Linux & the last time I heard it mentioned on the news the guy called it 'line-x'. If the options were sitting there on a shelf in every store that sold similar products then people might realize that there are options & do some homework. I don't know how well the 'free as in speech' philosophy would work as a pitch, but you could get converts if the realized how well Linux could work for them & software freedom would be a big side benefit.
44 • Pre-installed Linux (by nolinuxguru on 2015-10-06 10:13:17 GMT from Europe)
Following on from @42,43 and others: there is a similar thing in the UK. For laptops, there is zero choice for pre-installed Linux, so it is often a matter of guess-work whether it is even possible to install Linux alongside/over Windows 8/10.
For desktop systems, there are a number of companies that will build system the way you want it with either Windows or Linux or nothing pre-installed [eg QuietPC]. But it is more expensive than buying a brand-name Windows box and risking that the BIOS allows non-Microsoft installs. Will the BIOS stick to the rules about making Secure Boot an option?
When distro vendors do get big enough to venture into hardware alliances, little good ever comes out of it [Ubuntu?]. What a mess.
45 • @42 CCL (UK) (by mandog on 2015-10-06 10:27:43 GMT from South America)
CCL (UK) Are a excellent company to deal with every thing next day delivery. not only that the offer a fantastic after sales and help. I used them for years when in the UK
46 • Android on computers -- the exton option (by gnomic on 2015-10-06 10:38:41 GMT from Oceania)
Have a look at the Exton Linux web page for details of many many Android versions even unto 5+. Alas a compulory donation is mainly required. The odd free version. According to Mr Exton his images are the real thing, ie make running an Android on PC pretty close to the phone experience. Whether one would wish that I can't quite say as never had an Android phone so far. One tiny thing, never try to run an external screen wihout acquiring the relevant voodoo first. Freely available on the internet, extra text in the boot stanzas. That's for the version under review anyway. Maybe Exton has fixed it.
I disclaim any association with Arne aside from informing him of wee problems with his distro versions. And unlike him I have never played golf.
47 • 43 rejoinder (by Someguy on 2015-10-06 11:23:18 GMT from Europe)
"1 - the practical
Some people just don't feel like they have the time or inclination.
- yes, indolence can strike us all if you let it.
If you aren't that into the guts of a PC or are pressed for time, it may just be easier to buy something already built.
- no, missed the point, it's never easier, mail order saves dragging round the stores talking to ill-informed youths selling junk.
There could easily be timing issues that make it important to get a good PC sooner rather than later & have it in working condition ASAP.
- nope, nothing pre-installed I've seen qualifies as 'good', it's the cheapest Chinese-sourced parts inside. Get quality from a knowledgeable supplier.
There is also the factor that some people have plenty of money to burn & just find it easier to pay up.
- agreed. Ignorance and indolence (again) never won fair lady, paraphrasing.
Also I'm not buying the whole 'get someone else to do it' thing. There is no guarantee that you have a tech savvy neighbour/friend/etc. who wants to help.
- we hear that they have a special way of dealing with dumbos over there.
2 - the economic"
- about the same cost but better parts unless you specify go-faster kit.
48 • @42 Pre-installed Linux (by Ben Myers on 2015-10-06 11:39:49 GMT from North America)
Yes, you and I and probably everyone else commenting here are well capable of installing Linux, in any of its almost infinite flavors, and many are equally proficient at building their own tower or desktop. But the real question here is Linux for the unwashed masses. Every day, I deal with people who do not have the know-how to build a system, or even to install the mainstream Windows, or to install other software, or to get the latest updates. These self-same people would be the ones to whom a pre-built and pre-installed Linux system. They are the same ones who go to Walmart or Best Buy or Frys for their computers. If mass market stores had Linux systems on the floor and available to try out, maybe some folkw would buy them. But Microsoft has brain-washed most of the media and nearly all the sellers of computers. Not quite all. We have Chromebooks making some inroads, and a Chromebook runs nothing more than a highly customized Linux.
49 • @47 Chinese-sourced parts (by Ben Myers on 2015-10-06 11:46:15 GMT from North America)
And where today can you buy parts that are not Chinese-sourced? Apple? No. Lenovo? No. HPaq? No. Motherboards, hard drives, video cards, memory, etc? Well, yes, much of the manufacturing is elsewhere on the Pacific Rim.
Ah, yes, there is a distinction among Chinese manufacturers of parts. Asus, for example, has long produced good quality motherboards, documented well and supported properly with drivers for most operating systems. By contrast, there are the no-name types who make boards with no manufacturer identification and documentation lacking a company name, a web site, a mailing address or a phone number.
50 • Hardware Linux support - the easy route (by far2fish on 2015-10-06 12:22:17 GMT from Europe)
If you search for 'ubuntu certified hardware' you will see that Canonical maintain a page with laptops, desktops and servers that are certified with Ubuntu. If it works with Ubuntu, it is likely it will work - or that you can get it work - with other distros too.That is where I went for inspiration the last time I bought a new laptop, which I then installed Fedora on, and which I later replaced with Ubunto before settling on Antergos.
51 • cf. 49 (by Someguy on 2015-10-06 13:11:43 GMT from Europe)
Nothing wrong with Chinese parts. It's the adjectives in life that define the intention. The box shifters buy cheapest and in bulk - buy cheap, get what you pay for.
re.48. My comments were directed specifically at readers of DWW, whom I presumed to be capable, interested and sufficiently adept, since, ispo facto, they took the time to read this column and comment thereupon.
52 • Preinstalled Linux (by Neil on 2015-10-06 13:16:36 GMT from North America)
Has anyone had experience with Currentbuild, a small Southern California Company, offering preinstalled linux computers?
http://currentbuild.com/
53 • preloaded linux (by ezsit on 2015-10-06 17:58:55 GMT from North America)
Am I the only one who does not view the mass availability of Linux in the commercial pre-built computer market as a win-win? Why does it help Linux? I see only detriment as Linux will become a slave to commercial interests even more than it is now.
54 • What to do with a RAW file? (by Oxynewbie on 2015-10-06 20:05:52 GMT from South America)
A certain Linux distro doesn't provide an ISO image, but a RAW image (in reality, a gnuzipped tarball of that file). How should I burn it onto a DVD-RW? No commercial CD/DVD burner can do it directly.
55 • Exactly (by M.Z. on 2015-10-06 20:37:58 GMT from North America)
@48
Those are exactly the sort of issues I was trying to get at. I'd certainly like it if most computer users were fairly competent, but that isn't really the case. It feels like certain parts of the Linux community tend to devolve into elitist little clubs of power users who look down on average people. I'm guilty of getting frustrated with less savvy people on occasion myself, but we would do better as a community if we tried harder to be open to more average users. Such uses could make plenty of non technical contributions & still be a benefit to the community at large.
@54 - corporate interests
It's GPL so anyone who has an issue with it can roll their own version of Linux with different components or even fork the whole thing. You know that the GPL has recreated all those old questions that the Native Americans had about 'why do you think you can OWN land?' You seems to be under the mistaken impressions that you don't own most of the code running on your Linux distro every bit as much as the distro developer does. Let me assure you that this isn't the case & that abusive attempts to control open source software only lead to new & better forks. Just look at the LibreOffice situation after Oracle took over OpenOffice.
56 • GPL is a bitter pill (by nolinuxguru on 2015-10-06 22:12:23 GMT from Europe)
@57 I used to think GPL is a great idea, but it is a bit of an illusion. The Linux kernel is 15 million lines of source code [sloc], and all the popular packages together probably exceed that by many times. The first Linux kernel was 10 thousand lines of C, and Linus could manage that essentially alone. Let's face it: bloat along with understandable desire for features has left Linux mostly in the hands of professional software engineers paid by large corporations. How else could you explain the decision by the main distros to use systemd [550,000 sloc] to do a job that can be done by 220 sloc [sinit] or 10,000 sloc [sysvinit or Epoch]. Depressing.
57 • GPL (by M.Z. on 2015-10-06 23:19:31 GMT from North America)
@56
I disagree, though admittedly nothing is perfect. I also don't buy all this systemd talk. I still run PCLinuxOS without systemd as well as Mageia with it. I can't really tell the difference from an init perspective, though there are already forks of systemd meant to fix perceived problems like uselessd & forks of big name distros like the Devuan project. The fact is that that alternatives exist to some degree. I find it hard to argue that the systemd situation proves anything other than the GPL is doing it's job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Forks_and_alternative_implementations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devuan
58 • @52 Chinese parts are OK (by Ben Myers on 2015-10-06 23:54:42 GMT from North America)
Right. Nothing wrong with Chinese parts. But, as with any other products in this life, there are quality Chinese parts and cheap poor quality Chinese parts. It's just that most all the parts these days are made by Chinese companies, whether in China or elsewhere on the Pacific Rim.
Some box shifters buy junk, some buy quality product. No matter what, they get quantity discounts. Depends on which brand of box shifter we are talking about and whether we are talking about the cheap crap sold by mass market retailers or the well-made stuff bought by the smart enterprises and government agencies. I like Lenovo, HP and Dell BUSINESS-class computers. Their consumer-class hardware is most often junk, along with the kit shifted by Toshiba, Sony (RIP in the computer biz), and Acer-eGateMachinesWay. I'm not convinced that Asus computers are good quality, even though they generally produce good motherboards and graphics cards.
How do I form these opinions. By servicing all brands, fixing them when possible.
59 • 56 • systemd - never just init (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2015-10-07 01:39:35 GMT from North America)
Not just an init daemon, systemd is process-control/management; as more processes are absorbed under its umbrella, Lines-of-Code grows to suit. (Think of it as, say, standardizing process tracking via XML?)
On Linux-Pre-Loaded computers, hopefully that means they are built with Linux-compatible hardware only. Trying to utilize other hardware is still a dicey 'shoot, with odds loaded against the player by vendor attitude. One useful indicator is evidence (with dates) of robust support in public-readable fora and/or wiki(s).
60 • GPL (by nolinuxguru on 2015-10-07 06:46:04 GMT from Europe)
@57 Forks are normally acts of exasperation, and hard work, especially if there is any attempt to maintain points of contact with the parent. Especially if the parent is undergoing rampant development for dubious reasons.
I have been using Devuan, but from the outside, its development appears slow. Not surprising, given the mammoth task they are undertaking. Forks just to fix a mess created by others are just a [necessary] waste of time.
It is a sad indictment that in the race to build more and more "features" into software, the growth of exploitable bugs and malware has continued unabated. No profit margin in creating reliable, secure code. Projects like "suckless.org" provide a refreshing, if extreme, alternative to the modern trend to bloat-ware.
I didn't want to complicate my concerns at just trusting the GPL to save us from big, bad corporations. I also didn't want to use the "s-word", but just because there are distros without it [Slackware, PClinuxOS and the impenetrable Gentoo], does not mean that people should be forced to migrate to them.
61 • 51,57,58 (by Someguy on 2015-10-07 07:18:52 GMT from Europe)
....as I said "Nothing wrong with Chinese parts" - the problem lies with the purchasers.
In the dayes of yore, any self-respecting guy could change the wheels, tyres, sparking plugs, wiper blades, name-your-car-part-here. Manufacturers have made it more difficult under the guise of all sorts of guises, but few are valid. Westerners have become idle, disinterested, overpaid, w.h.y. There are still parts of the world where the screwdriver and welding torch rule! Well-intentioned folks in the UK (ARM, RISC and all that) have been banging the drum for raising the interest in IT technologies for three decades, culminating (as well as for mobiles, routers & co!) in the release of the RPi s, accompanied by not-for-profit educational activities. Nice to see the bare circuit board, tap in raw code, invent something useful - inspires young folk.
As for the great unwashed, I've managed to show many sceptics how to rebuild and upgrade both hardware with old boxes and software using Linux. It is gratifying to see how happy they are in discovering their hidden talents. Well, perhaps not so much talent it's so easy and saves a bunch of dosh.
Fixing stuff is good for the planet, good for the wallet and so much more satisfying for the individual. It promotes individual skills. Landfill is bad. In grand canonical terms, it is never cheaper to discard and buy new.
Now, what is needed is encourage more of the fairer sex back into this field. In the '60s, most software writers and operators were female - what happened?
62 • Remix OS, Android on the desktop (by BarryK on 2015-10-07 12:52:03 GMT from Oceania)
Remix OS is an alternative, if you want Android on the desktop. Currently only runs on some tablets.
Kickstarter campaign was recently completed, and I put in a pledge for a "mini PC", to be delivered late October:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jidetech/remix-mini-the-worlds-first-true-android-pc
All the feedback so far is that it works remarkably well.
This is not for PCs or laptops, only certain hardware, but it is interesting to see an alternative implementation of Android on the desktop.
63 • Various (by Dave Postles on 2015-10-07 13:55:55 GMT from Europe)
1 I don't understand why anyone would want to run Android on a computer - it seems to defeat the purpose - except perhaps as proof of concept. I don't even have Android on my 'phone (prefer FirefoxOS). Google sold out long ago in my mind with its 'tax planning'.
2 Low-end PCs - alleged above that pre-installed Linux was only offered on low-end PCs. It seems to me that Windows is increasingly offered on low-end PCs over here (UK) with merely 2Gb of RAM (aimed at the undergraduate market?). Now, it seems that Linux is only pre-installed on high-end PCs.
64 • is it really out of the box ready? (by philip on 2015-10-07 14:37:47 GMT from Europe)
A few months back I bought a Toshiba laptop and its OS was Windows 8.1.
My reasoning was simple, that we had used Toshiba with great success.
However all that has changed and it would seem that the normal functions of wifi and bluetooth both of which I would like to use are only partially or totally unsupported.
so the question then becomes is there such a thing as an out of the box distro that plays nice with Toshiba...............or am stuck with windows 8.1 and by the way trading in the lap top is not an option.
your help would be greatly appreciated.
Phil
65 • @64 hardware support (by Kazlu on 2015-10-07 15:57:16 GMT from Europe)
You can never be sure distro X will work with PC model Y from brand Z, unless somebody tested that exact same combination before you. From my experience, the oldest your PC is, the better hardware support it gets. So yes, the situation will probably improve over time, but not in a day. At this point I would recommand you go looking for support from the community of your distro (forums, chatrooms or whatever there is). If you still want to try another distro and you are looking for the best hardware support available with the less work needed, I would recommend, in that order:
- wait a few days until the release of the new Ubuntu and pick the derivative with the desktop of your choice (Kubuntu, Xbuntu, etc.)
- if that is still not good enough, try a rolling release distro. It's more prone to get you bugs from time to time, but since software is more up-to-date that is your best shot for hardware support. I would suggest PCLinuxOS, Antergos (never tried them though) or Manjaro (easy, works well, but updates are delayed by one or two weeks in comparison to its parent distribution, which might be a concern for security updates).
Several distros maintain a database of hardware that has been tested and runs well with it, try to find your computer in one of those and go for it.
66 • @64 Toshiba (by lupus on 2015-10-07 19:20:24 GMT from Europe)
Try to boot Ubuntu from Stick or Spinning Media. If your WLAN Card is detected you are nearly there. I'll admit there once was a Laptop where after installing the WLAN wasn't working though after booting it was but that was just a minor nuisance.
Is it a Touchscreen? Maybe read the previous DWW for hints to the right Distro (Kubuntu maybe)
Graphics Drivers might be the next trouble but where's Internet there's help at your fingertips!
You can do it all you need is the courage to do so.
Best of Luck
Lupus
67 • ISO Downloads (by ScratchInSniff on 2015-10-08 09:32:00 GMT from North America)
Mostly Other=Uget. Otherwise web browser.
68 • ISO Downloads by FIREFOX (by Muthu on 2015-10-08 17:09:13 GMT from Asia)
Always torrents are not available for all ISO Downloads. So, I use mostly Firefox Web Browser to download most of my ISO.
69 • plentiful retail linux boxen (by Tom on 2015-10-08 18:31:28 GMT from North America)
Whoever claimed that it use to be easy to get a computer with Linux from a retail outlet (like Walmart), must have been in a test market or something. Until that comment, I had never heard of Linux being available like that.
I remember when I had to find some obscure part of Dell's website to be able to order a Linux box directly from them. There was no other place to get one. Unfortunately it was a complete disaster. The monitor that came with it wasn't Linux compatible at the time. Dell's troubleshooting software used some sort of Windows environment that claimed the monitor was fine. Dell of course refused to take their crap back.
In the 15 years since that, it hasn't gotten any better. The best you can do now is get a no-OS box from newegg. Not even they will sell something with Linux pre-installed.
70 • 69 • Linux retail (by Kragle on 2015-10-08 19:29:23 GMT from North America)
I wouldn't want to buy a computer from a local department store - it's not a commodity, and I'd want support. There are local computer shops who can make a custom build, but few do the homework needed to assure support for more than one version of one OS. Even Windows doesn't support all hardware components out-of-the-box, likewise Apple products. Hardware component vendors may provide crude drivers, but their support often ends with one or two initial versions, since they'd rather see their products replaced with new ones. Resources for researching OS compatibility of hardware are incomplete and disorganized.
Until the extremism of both proprietary and Freed and Open-Source Software licensing provides producers with some negotiating leverage, I suggest this counter-productive mess will persist.
71 • git not atime 4 dotfiles (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2015-10-09 01:07:22 GMT from North America)
Dredging file system timestamps for dotfiles, icky. Use git. Using atime slows down your system. Git lets you see both changes and last date of use (read: last commit).
72 • acquire an ISO file (by SillyPutty on 2015-10-09 06:29:01 GMT from North America)
Web Browser (vpn).
I would use torrent, but 1.) Not that safe and 2.) zero IP address privacy.
73 • @72 torrents (by Kazlu on 2015-10-09 09:09:43 GMT from Europe)
"I would use torrent, but 1.) Not that safe and 2.) zero IP address privacy."
What do you mean by "not safe"?
74 • Re: torrents (by Tom on 2015-10-09 13:43:17 GMT from North America)
@73
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrent_poisoning
"Torrent poisoning is intentionally sharing corrupt data or data with misleading file names using the BitTorrent protocol. This practice of uploading fake torrents is sometimes carried out by anti-piracy organisations as an attempt to prevent the peer-to-peer (P2P) sharing of copyrighted content, and to gather the IP addresses of downloaders."
75 • @74 torrent poisoning (by Kazlu on 2015-10-09 13:57:14 GMT from Europe)
This hardly apply to FLOSS operating systems. Just gather the torrent file from the website of the OS you want and you know it's good. You can never be sure if you go looking elsewhere, but why would you anyway? The only reason would be because the website does not offer torrents, this is becoming very rare among GNU/Linux distros. Personnally I always get ISOs from the website of the distro, mostly via torrent, and via direct download if I have no other choice.
76 • hardware support (by M.Z. on 2015-10-09 17:52:38 GMT from North America)
@64 - try a couple of different distros
I generally try at least a couple of unrelated or loosely related distros if I have hardware issues. I remember Ubuntu & it's derivatives failing to work on some hardware that other things would work fine on (PCLOS was good there I think). I've definitely had more graphics issues with Mint on my main desktop than PCLOS, but on my laptop Mint & Mageia both work perfectly while PCLOS has wifi issues. I generally say you should try a couple of different live distros from different parts of the Linux family tree & see if one gets you there. I generally alternate between Mint and either PCLinuxOS or Mageia, but try what ever combination works for you.
77 • hardware support (by Jordan on 2015-10-09 22:41:43 GMT from North America)
@76 and 64 .. oh yes well put M.Z. That post (76) answers a lot of
the angst many including yours truly have had over the years
thinking this or that distro was bad or messed up because this or
that function was less than expected on a given machine.
"..try different distros from different parts of the Linux family tree.."
Yep!
78 • 64 • Is it really Toshiba ready? (by Kragle on 2015-10-10 14:35:48 GMT from North America)
(Fixed-Subject-For-You) Did you check with Toshiba about this, first? Research their support system for specifics on your model's components? Did you shop for a model that supports Linux well in the first place?
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Really, nothing is. Not even the Windows 8.1 that came with it! That would require psychic cracking of every component maker's secret code, which would scare everyone silly. Even so, there's a fair chance most can be made to work. Common software tools can detect most hardware. Roll the dice, do your homework - good things can happen.
But realistically, you have to know what you want to do with it first. How do you define "success"?
79 • Toshiba is an anomaly. The rest are easy. (by Ben Myers on 2015-10-11 00:26:01 GMT from North America)
Toshiba laptops are among the most poorly supported in the industry, unfortunately. And Toshiba has been known to provide the oddball setup or two, which explains Toshiba's declining popularity, along with difficulty to repair and product quality.
Other major brands like Lenovo, HP/Compaq and Dell provide good quality information right on their web sites, describing the specs of their computers.
I do not do much with AMD processors, but no matter the brand name these days, the specs, chipsets and drivers of systems with Intel CPUs are pretty much cut and dried for most any brand. Here is a brief rundown covering the last 5 years or so.
1. Motherboard chipset - Intel (Surprise!)
2. Graphics - Intel, AMD (ex-ATI) or nVidia
3. Ethernet - Realtek, Broadcom or Intel
4. Wifi - Intel, Broadcom, Atheros
5. Audio - Intel, Realtek, Analog Devices
Because Broadcom does not release source code for its chips, one must find a distro that still includes the Broadcom drivers. For the rest it's pretty straightforward. I run numerous live distros here, and as long the computers in question have the chips listed above, no problemo.
AMD CPUs? You are on your own.
Number of Comments: 79
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