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1 • systemdOS here we come (by Jeff on 2015-03-30 00:38:24 GMT from North America) |
It is becoming harder to ignore that the systemd devs intend to have it become the whole operating system.
They are largely RedHat employees, employees of a for profit corporation.
RedHat is also a US .gov contractor.
Still not worried?
2 • SuperX and PCLinuxOS Mini (by Randy McD on 2015-03-30 00:43:06 GMT from North America)
Ran the live cd of Super X and was going to install - but - I had to agree to a "subscription fee" to install? It wasn't THAT pretty!!! And, a guy named "Crow" referred me to PCLinuxOS Mini (still looking for a distro with no apps!) and it was almost perfect - installed on my Intel based desktop fine tried to install it on my AMD based system (where I really want it) and it won't install) - any other distrubitions that have minimal apps!
Thanks - Randy
3 • Relax, nothing is changing (by Henrique Rodrigues on 2015-03-30 01:10:28 GMT from Europe)
The thing you have to remember is that everyone is forking Linux, meaning that almost no distribution is using the exact code that Linus publishes. Red Hat adds some patches for their distribution, same goes for Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, etc.. I know that in Gentoo you can install the upstream kernel, but that's the only distribution I know that gives you that option on the packages list. Of course, you can install it yourself.
What I think is happening here is that the systemd developers are now providing their own fork to guarantee compatibility without having to wait for Linus. Patches will reach upstream eventually, but this makes the development of systemd faster and easier.
All in all, Linux will still be used, of course. This is just a convenience, like embedding a library on your code. And please remember the difference between systemd and systemd: one is an init system, the other one is an umbrella project, which includes the first one. This Linux fork falls under the umbrella project, not the init system. Yes, the nomenclature sucks and is responsible for most of the confusion surrounding systemd.
4 • Systemd (by MBarland on 2015-03-30 01:32:08 GMT from North America)
Jeff, you're right. This is getting scary. That they've already got so many of the core Linux distributions on board and now want to fork the kernel! They clearly have Linux-world domination on their minds.
I like the idea of systemd much less having read this. This is far worse than the fork ofthe kernel Google did for Android.
5 • systemd project's kernel forking (by cykodrone on 2015-03-30 02:04:21 GMT from North America)
Wow, that didn't take long, now distros adopting systemd will have to also adopt THEIR kernel too. All us 'detractors' are laughing right now, we told ya so just doesn't seem to cut it. All those early adopters have egg on their faces. Shhh, what's that sound, I think that's the sound of embarrassed developers scrambling for a workaround, that and PR spin damage control mode. I'm typing this between rolls on the floor. :D
6 • Systemd (by Leonard Ashley on 2015-03-30 02:23:20 GMT from North America)
@1-4: Most of us know so very little about systemd, and was quite a snafu with many developers of Debian distro's. Most seemed to have moved past the initial impact of the change. Sometime ago I read a article about Gnome being the most to benefit from systemd but why do something to benefit just one DE (desktop environment)? I believe this is only a partial reason, but not the sole reason. Then another article that the developers who left and created Devuan as a fork complained that systemd had tentacles reaching deep inside the core of the system, violating the principles of the Linux basic rules of simplicity. What ever the reason, the most senior, and most knowledgeable, left and I see and hear there are more to the rift. Greed is the most certain ingredient of all failed ventures. Perhaps it is time to start supporting Devuan, and push for a stable distro. AntiX and others are offering sysVinit as a alternate install.
7 • systemd (by Will B on 2015-03-30 02:47:41 GMT from North America)
I am not at all surprised that this development is coming to pass. I really saw this coming down the road a while ago.
God bless Pat Volkerding and others who are maintaining what I feel is the last bit of sanity in the Linux distro world. I personally believe that the systemd project has grossly overstepped its bounds. Now distros will have to 'fall in line' with systemd or be, basically, outcasts.
I'm glad I finally have a stable and reliable FreeBSD install. While Linux will always be my first open OS in my heart, systemd makes it easy to run to the open arms of the BSDs.
8 • Is this an April Fool joke? (by Jimmie on 2015-03-30 02:49:45 GMT from Planet Mars)
Is this systemd Linux kernel fork for real? Or is this just an early April Fool joke?
9 • Linux is free! Fork it, until you try to do something I don't like... (by Darren on 2015-03-30 02:55:16 GMT from North America)
It is so scary, someone is doing something that you don't like. Wow. I don't like Devuan myself, but I'm not complaining. If it succeeds, great, the distro I use might gain from it. It if fails? I told you so.
I didn't realize that change was so threatening in Linux.
Go outside, get a breath of fresh air and ignore it. At least until the robots that are created by the SystemdOS take over the world. Then you can all come tell me you told me so. :p Though it would be like Terminator, and that would be sort or cool. Until we all die that is.
10 • @8 (by Will B on 2015-03-30 02:55:43 GMT from North America)
Jimmie, if this was an early April fool's joke, the article would have probably said "systemd developers realize the error of their ways and cut all extraneous functionality, except for init tasks". Oh how I'd love to see that kind of article be true ;-)
11 • Dsystem[umbrella-project] (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2015-03-30 02:58:52 GMT from North America)
Oracle claims to have a better kernel. If RedHat believes they can come up with something better too, we should let them go for it. Swapping kernels with identical ABI should allow ample demo and testing, right?
"Yes, the nomenclature sucks and is responsible for most of the confusion surrounding systemd." And here I thought it was just over-hype scaring the timid among us, and buggy-code dumping. Yes, refusal to label clearly created the perception of exponentially increasing mission creep. That certainly contributed to concern. But I suggest the responsibility for most of the concern - not confusion - about Dsystem was the tidal wave of buggy code. Perhaps swappable kernels will be a wiser, gentler approach.
12 • Early April fool's joke? (by Thomas on 2015-03-30 03:00:18 GMT from Planet Mars)
"I have tricked you"?
Early April fool's joke?
13 • Systemd (by Ryan Mitchell on 2015-03-30 03:53:42 GMT from Oceania)
The thought that the systemd guys thing this will reduce fragmentation is astonishing.
One core linux platform? You mean like we've had for years now?
Linux, Xorg. And do-one ever had compatibility issues ever.
But no, let's make 2 kernals now, splitting development between 2 systems, for the first time in history truly fragmenting linux.
At least if this happens they'll get their hands out from the inside of the pure linux kernal. Give them their own cesspool to splash around in.
14 • systemd, and Tails--use a thumbdrive! (by Roland on 2015-03-30 04:09:06 GMT from North America)
I recommend highly Salix, a Slack derivative. SysV init, no PulseAudio, lots of software, much of it precompiled, gslapt for easy beginner administration. If Mint follows the 'buntu plan to switch from upstart, goodbye Mint!
Tails should be run from a thumbdrive. You can install software to a running Tails system, but it runs in memory, so it doesn't alter the thumbdrive and is lost at reboot. One exception: you should check out onionshare, a Tor webserver for transferring those special secrets. It creates a zipfile archive. It can automatically shut itself down after a single access. It is "installed" in the encrypted "Persistent" directory and you will need to install it to the OS from there at each boot, a single-click operation.
15 • systemd (by Teresa e Junior on 2015-03-30 05:04:23 GMT from Planet Mars)
This is trolling, folks! There is no "Ivan Gotyaovich" working on systemd, and the linked GitHub account was created only this month, and as "systemdaemon", which is not the same as the old "systemd" account.
16 • @2 • SuperX and PCLinuxOS Mini (by tony on 2015-03-30 05:20:00 GMT from Asia)
Yes, if your problem was related to NVidea drivers, please have a look here
I too had some c**p, but it was solved with one email.
17 • systemd (by Endiz on 2015-03-30 05:36:29 GMT from North America)
I can't wait for all the systemd distros to start getting infected with malware, virus' and spyware since they are taking the WinBlowz approach. No more independence in the "systemd Linux distro" world, now they are all just RedHat distros with a different look.
I was watching the Devuan mailing list for a while, and the attitude is not that much different from Debian. Question anything and the defenses come out as if they know everything. I questioned something about security and was branded a pedophile. What a mess that place has become.
18 • systemd (by MoreGee on 2015-03-30 05:39:29 GMT from North America)
I've been scrambling to deal with machines that installed the latest ubuntu upgrades. All sorts of old weird issues are coming up. One machine started running bad x.org Intel i8x/i9x drivers that has been happily running vesa drivers for years. I had to run and install Debian expert on that one.
Another machine had a old gremlin of the start menu disappearing along with the distribution specific icon.
Another the shutdown icon disappeared from the toolbar and was not available anymore to add to the tool bar.
On another the the icon for networking on the toolbar changed to an older type and showed that it was working but was not and "edit networking" was grayed out. That one if I remember was a realtek 813x driver bug that I have not seen for years (version 8?).
A bunch of others would just come up with a black start screen or streaked and garbled white text on the black screen. Those machines I had to turn off the log in screen or get to a command line and get them into a vesa driver to fix. Puppy precise 5.6 was a big help on those machines. Newer versions don't check the previous configuration very well if you do not have a save file.
The last time I was getting black screens on these machines was because it would try and run a video mode that was OK for the monitor but the video card did not have enough memory. For instance 24 or 32 bit color to run a splash or login screen. The reason I say that is sometimes i was getting in text mode the old ask for video mode ie. 25x80 enter zero etc.
Systemd is just making bad assumptions.
19 • systemd (by jsm on 2015-03-30 06:10:58 GMT from North America)
I've been fairly neutral regarding this whole systemd controversy up until now. I've understood the arguments for and against, and I've thought that things were getting a little overblown. I no longer feel that way.
Some people have commented that forking the Linux kernel is no big deal, it happens all the time, and all distros tend to add their own set of patches.
However, most of those patches are either backports of fixes in later kernel versions, or other improvements. But for most distro's they are NOT required. For example, I use Debian more than any other Linux distro. However, I rarely use the kernel that comes with the distribution. I typically build a kernel.org kernel and use that (for a variety of reasons).
I like the fact that Debian (and most other Linux distro's) don't have a user space environment that REQUIRES their kernel. Yes, you can get into trouble if you try to install an older kernel than what the distro was built for, but that has never been the case (at least on Debian) in my experience. when using newer kernels.
Now, it appears that will no longer be the case. If I understand correctly, The Systemd team is forking the kernel so that they can make changes that will be required by new versions of systemd in order to run. So I will no longer be able to build a kernel.org kernel and have it boot successfully unless I get the right set of "systemd kernel patches" and apply them. No Thanks. I guess I'll be moving to a non systemd distribution in the future.
20 • systemdoesn'tmatter (by bin on 2015-03-30 06:35:04 GMT from Europe)
Sadly none of this is going to matter soon.
From ostatic.com quoting arstechnica article.
"MIcrosoft has made dual-booting machines with Windows 10 UEFI and/or Secure Boot a lot more difficult than with versions passed. With Windows 8.x a switch was authorized to allow users to disable Secure Boot checking or distributions could do the crypto-key dance with Microsoft. The Linux Foundation has been working to make the certification process accessible to more players, but now Microsoft has removed the previous requirement that a switch be available. That may not sound like a big change, but a lot of lower cost boards and systems will save money there no doubt. Mobile devices won't be allow to have a switch at all, but on desktops it's up the manufacturer. Microsoft knows it will be dropped on a large number of machines."
No doubt there will be some small incentive from Redmond to adopt that money saving option??
In other words in 18mths to 2 yrs time you probably will not be able to buy a normal laptop or desktop that will allow you to install anything other than Windows. OK some mfrs may produce a premium price range for linux and server mfrs will be able to charge an arm and a leg for 'Linux Enabled' stickers.....
Just suggesting we keep things in perspective and developers devote energy to the very real possibility of not being able to run systemd, upstart or sysvinit on anything at all................................
21 • How to trust systemd? (by denk_mal on 2015-03-30 07:08:24 GMT from Europe)
Linus is kicking one of the systemd developers out of the kernel team because it's development breaks the kernel and the reaction of the systemd is to fork the kernel?
How/why shoult I trust those new kernel?
Systemd is getting more and more to a single point of failure for *any* linux system.
It seems to me that Slackware is not only one of the first Linux Distro; It would also beeing one of the last one.
IMHO distrowatch (and the rest of the world) shoult than separate between linux distros and systemd distros
22 • re. 20 (by Sondar on 2015-03-30 07:44:11 GMT from Europe)
It defies understanding that folks want to dual-boot (duel-boot?!) anything, albeit liveCD is an entirely separate option. Two, at least, machines are required. The primary one will continue to be the 'favourite', which, for the younger set, first adopters and retirees wondering what next to use up their pensions rather than leave it to the grandchildren, means will be SOTA complete with go-faster stripes. This will run the user's preferred Linux distro, with or without 'd'. Post-W10, a BIOS intercept will permanently prevent any UEFI/SB/M$-based boot up. [It may opt as a live Tor base, of course].
The second machine can be something rescued from a skip/dumpster/boot-sale/gift/under-bed re-discovery/etc. which will never, eve,r have its NIC connected. It can run any of the other testing, obsolete or even WXP distros or all of the above depending on the user's proclivities. Archived apps., data, whatever, files can be statically transferred by USB, SD, CD/DVD, even FD from machine A, but never from B-to-A. Additional machines also remain unplugged from the vundernet. Of course, there will be detractors jumping up to point out the flaws and shortcomings of such a strategy but there's plenty of scope for refining it according to personal needs, abilities and innovationary skills.
23 • dual-boot (by excollier on 2015-03-30 08:12:02 GMT from Europe)
re: 22 I dual boot Windows 7 and Linux Mint. Why? Because my wife needs Windows 7, and I prefer to use Linux - simple. I maintain the whole setup and we are both happy. It boots to Windows 7 by default so my wife has nothing extra to do. Is that so hard to believe or understand?
24 • ...allow you to install anything other than Windows (by zcatav on 2015-03-30 08:30:00 GMT from Europe)
"In other words in 18mths to 2 yrs time you probably will not be able to buy a normal laptop or desktop that will allow you to install anything other than Windows. OK some mfrs may produce a premium price range for linux and server mfrs will be able to charge an arm and a leg for 'Linux Enabled' stickers....."
25 • Systemd, and the paradox of choice? (by Sander on 2015-03-30 08:33:43 GMT from Europe)
I hope this kernel fork is a joke.
Users already have to deal with myriad of distribution packaged with badly designed desktop environments, where software is designed with completely different tool-kits that sometimes fail to work together in the same system.
And now we have to deal with two different kernels? They want to unify with more fragmentation... nahh I don't believe it... yet....
26 • Wow ! How many fishes eaten here. (by FredBezies on 2015-03-30 08:48:16 GMT from Europe)
In France, there is no "april fools", but we're using april fish instead. You're not fooled, you ate the 1st april fish. A lot of fish was eaten !
It looks like nearly all comments before #25 do not realize it is a joke. How many looked at developer's name ? How many searched for him ?
How many looked at github repository ? Sad to see how many people were fooled here.
"I Got You Babe" from Sonny and Cher was released in 1965 and it could be applied again here !
27 • Systemd (by jura321 on 2015-03-30 08:50:39 GMT from Europe)
I see myself as just "Linux user" but why some more educated persons who don't like systemd just not put systemd on the surgical table and split that monolithic shit into working parts (manageable parts) where will be possible to identify what every line of code is doing? Perhaps some nonsenses would need to be re-written - like logging into binary blobs etec. Then every distro could have a choice of what parts are ok for them and avoid the rest. There are still some Linux distributions which are not using systemd - https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page so there is still way to go further. So please stop complaining and start doing something.
One more question for Jessie:
Is it possible to write reviews for distributions which are really different and avoiding writing tests of same ones ? - Ubuntu for 100 times with different wallpaper for example? There are some really unique distributions which deserves much more attention and which brings something new or different technologies (VOID LINUX, SLACKWARE, GENTOO, ARCH,).
28 • systemd kernel = April Fool's joke (by Paraquat on 2015-03-30 08:59:26 GMT from Asia)
I'm pretty sure that this systemd kernel fork is an April Fool's joke.
But not a good one.
Indeed, would have been much funnier if Lennart Potstickers decided that both systemd and Pulseaudio are flawed concepts, and he's recommending we go back to sysvinit and Alsa...
"Simplicity is bliss," Potstickers mumbled as he submitted his resignation to Red Hat. "I see no reason for an init system, and if you want sound, what's wrong with cassette tapes? Which is why I'm going to work for the FreeDOS project. I'm also moving to Tibet."
29 • April Fool's joke continued... (by Paraquat on 2015-03-30 09:20:32 GMT from Asia)
Meanwhile, Red Hat management admits that Lennart Poettering is just a bot.
"It started out as a joke," Red Hat CEO Richard Stallman confessed at a news conference on Friday. "Some of our developers with a weird sense of humor got this idea after seeing the movie S1m0ne back in 2002...
I mean, who would have thought that anybody would believe there was a real guy named Poettering? But the geek community fell for it. So they had Poettering introduce that bad joke of software called Avahi. Somehow that didn't raise eyebrows. And then Pulseaudio - still, the Linux community ate it up. So they tried systemd, and still nobody got the joke.
I'm just here to tell you that the gag has gone on for too long. If they keep this up, someone is going to think they'll fork the kernel. So just for the record, there is no Poettering, there is no systemd. Never was.
30 • RC1 (by der_bud on 2015-03-30 09:22:35 GMT from Europe)
I just tried the first RC kernel of that fork (from here: http://bit.ly/1HeDJ5I) and man - that boots lightening fast on my Amiga.
31 • systemd (by jb on 2015-03-30 10:06:03 GMT from Europe)
April Fool's joke or not ...
Here is an example of how its workings are transparent to end users and developers
This thread is quite telling - after so many years of systemd in testing and production,
a simple task of adding some modification to system booting order causes so much
interpretation and confusion about how its ordering works, if at all reliably.
One poster is convinced that systemd works very well - by "magic".
32 • Systemd fork is April Fool's Day (by Dawid on 2015-03-30 10:33:20 GMT from Europe)
You got me on that one, I'll grant you, Distrowatch. At first I was dismayed at this systemd kernel fork but then I took a look at the comments of some more wary readers and realised it was just a faux. If you try to google this Ivan Gotyaovich you'll get exactly one result and it's this very page, the Distrowatch Weekly.
I've also found this GitHub repo: https://github.com/systemdaemon/systemd/tree/master/src/linux which was made by a guy named Ivan Gotyaovoich [sic!] who joined on 18.03.2015 and has just one commit - the init commit to the said repo.
Still, good one. Terrifying. And really quite plausible, given the extent to which systemd has expanded already, just like in this gif: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/112502661235/watching-systemd-evolve :)
33 • systemd - Salix (by dxr on 2015-03-30 10:38:53 GMT from North America)
Fully agree with Roland on Salix. In search of a distro without systemd, I gave Salix XFCE a try.
What a pleasant surprise; close Slackware based (same version #), very polished, 1 click full media codec support, GSlapt is similar to Synaptic, 1 application per function... Very simple; no Pulseaudio, no Plymouth, all inits from rc.d, simple lilo boot.... This is the first time in a long time I fully understand what gets booted from where and when. Been running Salix on 4 machines for a few months, solid.
I am surprised that this particular distro isnt more popular.
34 • @2 - Distro with minimal apps (by Uncle Slacky on 2015-03-30 10:43:17 GMT from Europe)
Bodhi is pretty minimal - only comes with a browser, terminal, file manager and (I think) picture viewer out of the box. You can of course easily change the DE if you don't like Enlightenment.
35 • April Fool's joke part III... (by Paraquat on 2015-03-30 10:56:28 GMT from Asia)
Mark Shuttleworth admits that Mir is also a hoax...
"I have to admit, those systemd pranksters really had everyone going. We also tried to lighten things up at Canonical with our Mir graphics server hoax, but nobody cared. Ever since we announced it in 2013, not a single person has even bothered to attempt to download it. If they'd clicked on the download link, they would have known it was an April Fool's joke. But I guess it's my fault - ever since we released Unity as a spoof interface, nobody has taken anything I say seriously."
"Nevertheless, I'm awed by Red Hat's systemd gag," Shuttleworth beamed in admiration. "First they said you'd need it for udev, then logind, and finally Gnome and KDE, but nobody batted an eyelash. If this had gone on for another week, they'd be saying that you'd need systemd to run VI and Emacs."
36 • systemd and control freakery (by Nematoad on 2015-03-30 10:57:39 GMT from Europe)
"...gives us control over almost all key parts of the stack."
Ah! there we have the systemd devs finally showing their true colours. A sort of "Apple complex" Control, control control.
"Since until now development of GNU/Linux has been fragmented, slowed by poor communication and conflicting designs."
Strange then given all these handicaps Gnu/Linux has almost managed to take over the computing world.
For those looking for a non-systemd distro that is actively maintained and has a lot of good features look no further than PCLinuxOS. No sudo, no systemd, diskdrake partitioning tool, apt-get, the list of good stuff goes on.
37 • Distro with minimal apps (by Nematoad on 2015-03-30 11:06:18 GMT from Europe)
I could not see any mention of Tiny Core Linux
That might suit you.
38 • @19 (by Henrique Rodrigues on 2015-03-30 11:10:32 GMT from Europe)
"Now, it appears that will no longer be the case. If I understand correctly, The Systemd team is forking the kernel so that they can make changes that will be required by new versions of systemd in order to run. So I will no longer be able to build a kernel.org kernel and have it boot successfully unless I get the right set of "systemd kernel patches" and apply them."
Not at all. My understanding is that this fork is about rapid development, all patches will go upstream. So if you are building systemd from master Git you might need some extra patches, but for a normal distro usage you should be fine with Linux straight from kernel.org.
39 • systemd (by Nematoad on 2015-03-30 11:30:16 GMT from Europe)
OK, you fooled me. Well done!
The troubling thing is given the way that the systemd devs have been acting this April Fool joke was all to close to the truth.
I think that they *are* intent on grabbing control of the whole GNU/Linux system, whether through a conviction that they have the "One true way" or that they see commercial advantage in what they are proposing and doing I don't know. I do know that I consider systemd to be a threat to GNU/Linux by adding unnecessary complexity and as othershave said here introducing a single point of failure.
40 • tor (by greg on 2015-03-30 11:36:00 GMT from Europe)
Tor is kind of cool, but i found some issue while using it. the porblme is that it seems many attacks are made using this network. so you could be asigned IP and then get autobanned on some sites. i once tried to Access a page just for fun and i had to restart a couple of times before i got the IP so that i could connect to the site. the site was nothing special. just some local news. it happened to me again some time later when i had to reinitialise tor 2 times to Access the site. previous IP's were all baned due to spam or attacks. too bad they abuse it.
41 • Systemd (by Alex on 2015-03-30 11:42:04 GMT from Europe)
I am using my own remix of Ubuntu Trusty with Linux kernel 4.0 RC6 and was thinking to move to systemd permanently. I am also using another remix of Ubuntu Vivid, which is using systemd by default, and even in beta stage, I don't have any problems, crashes. This too is on Linux kernel 4.0 RC6.
I don't know why you guys are so paranoid on systemd. Why don't you guys try it for a while and come to a conclusion. As far as my computer's concerned, this systemd or upstart stays out of the way, never troubling me at work.
42 • SystemD (by Mister Linux User on 2015-03-30 11:48:18 GMT from North America)
sheesh! was a beast SystemD has become maybe more distro developers will wake up and realize what a terrible thing it has turned in to, i refuse to put a distro on any of my PCs that includes SystemD, not for a desktop, not for a laptop or mobile device, not for a server, not for ANYTHING!
43 • Kubuntu 15.04 (by kc1di on 2015-03-30 11:57:08 GMT from North America)
Kubuntu 15.04 with plasma 5 is looking pretty good. :)
44 • systemd (by gav on 2015-03-30 12:00:51 GMT from Europe)
Well done to all involved - totally got me!
Cheeky doing it a day early when our guards were down though
45 • Tails (by any on 2015-03-30 12:17:00 GMT from Europe)
I like the idea behind Tails but what I do not understand is why there are programs like Scribus, The Gimp , Inkscape, Audacity in it. Multimedia players OK, but video and audio editors and publishing software? Isn't it enough to have them installable through Synaptic? Instead of LibreOffice Gnumeric and Abiword are enough for a live CD I think.
Also I I would like to have a Tails version with LXDE or XFCE and not with Gnome3.
46 • secure boot Win10 (by Dave Postles on 2015-03-30 12:35:45 GMT from Europe)
I sincerely hope that the EU and national anti-trust/monopoly authorities will get on the case quickly and investigate that.
47 • The systemd project forks the Linux kernel (by M. Fraenkel on 2015-03-30 12:55:07 GMT from Europe)
In my opinion L. Poettering & co, namely Red Hat, is brazenly trying to undermine the freedom of linux, as Red Hat surely is the elongated claw of creepy nsa and furthermore in general of world ruling business interests. Can individuals with intellect really want this?
Only a dumb person can't imagine that implementing systemd into the kernel is dangerous in regards of easily implementing any spyware well hidden in future kernel versions.
So my urgent appeal to Linus Torvalds is to stand right against this corruptive behaviour.
This is as said only my opinion, but you know, what mankind is able to do, lastly mankind will do!
48 • @ Jesse Smith - You may have started something here.... (by Sander on 2015-03-30 13:36:46 GMT from Europe)
The news is spreading all over...
I was shocked where I read this comment in Debian user forums:
"Pretty crappy joke if I'm going to be honest. This is like an April fool joke that makes you want to punch the dude in the face, not laugh."
L __/  \
49 • @ 46, 47 April Fool's Day (by Alex on 2015-03-30 13:38:52 GMT from Europe)
Come on, guys!
Its just 2 days to April Fool's Day, but DWW comes only on Monday, the 1st April is Wednesday.
50 • Re: systemd April Fools (by Pearson on 2015-03-30 13:55:10 GMT from North America)
I, too,think this is an April Fools joke.
The sad thing is, it's almost believable. I actually started to look around at other reputable Linux news sources for confirmation. That says a lot about (the reputation of) the systemd maintainers.
51 • @48 (by Pearson on 2015-03-30 13:59:47 GMT from North America)
> I was shocked where I read this comment in Debian user forums:
> "Pretty crappy joke if I'm going to be honest. This is like an April fool joke that
> makes you want to punch the dude in the face, not laugh."
I kind of agree with that user. I don't go to news sites for humor -- I expect them to give me real news.
I have vary rarely disagreed with Jessee, but this is one area in which I must. As I said above, this was too close to believable.
Man, I hate being online April 1.
52 • systemd (by dragonmouth on 2015-03-30 14:23:08 GMT from North America)
"One common concern is the systemd project has a habit of taking on additional features outside the scope of a traditional init implementation."
Change for change's sake IS NOT an improvement. It has been proven over and over again in science, computers, corporate world, etc that the more tasks an entity takes on, the more inefficient it becomes at performing any one of them. The more tasks are integrated into systemd, the more of a kludge it becomes.
The forking of the Linux kernel is a joke, figuratively as well as literally.
53 • Ubuntu Mate 15.04 Beta2 (by Ari Torres on 2015-03-30 14:39:20 GMT from North America)
Great Job Team Ubuntu Mate!!!
it works great,looks good,feels like we never left :) (old timer here)
my I suggest:
1-cheese over guvcview
2-docky over plank (plank has some advantages over docky,location of the dock-bar but docky has the elegance no dock-bar can bring)
4-Audio Recoder by osmoma (awesome app)
5-gedit over pluma
over all very satisfied,to the point that I am using it as my daily driver :)
54 • systemd (by Gordon Shumway on 2015-03-30 14:40:02 GMT from Europe)
I fully agree with this statement:
"Pretty crappy joke if I'm going to be honest. This is like an April fool joke that makes you want to punch the dude in the face, not laugh."
Let alone the impossibility of forking Linux by two (or a couple of) clumsy devs, i.e. Lennart, Kay and other systemd developers. It is a giant code base and cannot be managed by a handful of people. But to be honest; if they could, they would not hesitate a moment to fork it.
55 • Systemd April fool's joke (by Linux Apocalypsis on 2015-03-30 14:59:36 GMT from Europe)
I wrote the same joke a few months ago:
Only that it is not a joke. It will happen sooner or latter. But now is too soon. They have to wait at least until the systemd package manager becomes the default and only PM in all the major distros and that, for instance, Nvidia and other drivers will work only in systemd distributions. This is going to happen and then the corporations will control all of main stream Linux and Torvalds will be history.
My guess is that in one or two Aprils it will become real.
56 • systemd joke exposes Linux NTP problem (by Oko on 2015-03-30 15:08:38 GMT from North America)
The systemd 1st April joke that somebody posted on March 30th exposes Linux real problem with NTP. Namely UNIX exclusively uses Coordinated Universal Time (UTC abbreviation is from French) not the local time as a system time. Apparently Linux people (some distributions) should rethink whether adopting local time as Windows is a good idea.
Can anyone close to Linux foundation point out existence of a simple OpenNTPD http://www.openntpd.org/ ? Having OpenNTPD as a default network time protocol daemon would benefit Linux in two ways:
1. Their computers will be able to tell them accurately 30th of March from 1st of April.
2. As a bonus they will remove over 1500 vulnerabilities and potential attack surfaces due to their current "more accurate" implementation of NTPd.
Now that brings us to real problem with systemd. How does one enable something as simple as OpenNTPD through systemd?
57 • first stable plasma 5 distro (by Johan Borgstrøm on 2015-03-30 15:09:15 GMT from Planet Mars)
Regarding Kubuntu being the first Linux distribution to offer a stable release with the Plasma 5 desktop I think not quite :-)
While I'm sure the Kubuntu team will do a fine job and be one of the first, Manjaro already has a stable release with plasma 5 since 2015-03-20 afaik ;-)
58 • Forking the Linux Kernel (by Alex on 2015-03-30 15:11:17 GMT from Europe)
April fool's joke or not, it won't be a bad idea forking the Linux kernel. BSD kernel was forked and we have OS X. Linux was forked from Minix, so why shouldn't there be a Pinix or Sinix?
All for development!
Maybe someone really should fork Linux and make a thinner kernel.
59 • BlackArch (by Pearson on 2015-03-30 15:32:11 GMT from North America)
This project looks interesting (I haven't been to their site yet). Have there been any reviews on how well it stands against other pentest distros, (I think Kali is one?).
60 • April (or simply) Fools (by anticapitalista on 2015-03-30 15:33:25 GMT from Europe)
Well done Jessie!
It's about time people started reading more carefully and critically.
61 • @56 (by Sander on 2015-03-30 15:37:16 GMT from Europe)
@56 You made me look for the UTC etymology, a lot of things you can learn in a single day :)
62 • Development (by Alex on 2015-03-30 16:00:45 GMT from Europe)
I use Ubuntu Vivid and Trusty.
I've been looking at Windows 10 9926 technical preview.
In the Linux world, only Unity DE is anywhere near Windows 10, or vice versa.
When are we going to stop fighting and create a top notch distro? Maybe, we should really fork Linux kernel?
63 • @62 (by jaws222 on 2015-03-30 16:14:40 GMT from North America)
"In the Linux world, only Unity DE is anywhere near Windows 10, or vice versa".
You can have them both. I'll stick to Openbox, XFCE, LXDE and Mate..
By the way, I did check out Oz Unity and Voyager this weekend and liked them both.
64 • @56 How long is March this year? (by dbrion1 on 2015-03-30 16:28:01 GMT from Europe)
"The systemd 1st April joke that somebody posted on March 30th exposes Linux real problem with NTP"
That would be logical if March were a 30 days long month (perhaps this year is an exception?)
65 • @58 (by Ivan on 2015-03-30 16:39:29 GMT from North America)
Linux was not forked from Minix.
The OS X kernel in XNU, a Mach/BSD hybrid.
66 • Playing right into the FUD (by schultzter on 2015-03-30 17:01:34 GMT from North America)
I like systemd, but this is getting ridiculous!!! All this name-calling, forking, and "I'm taking my ball and going home!" posturing is NOT how Linux and the open source community is supposed to work. Anyone looking for ammunition against open source has hit the mother load here! We're destroying ourselves from the inside-out!
67 • Systemd forks the kernel (by Rambo Tribble on 2015-03-30 17:08:44 GMT from North America)
The practice of bringing all the elements of development under one umbrella is an artifact of proprietary development, not UNIX, per se. Collaborative development is usually more distributed, but then systemd is the child of a proprietary interest.
68 • GNU/systemd (by William Barath on 2015-03-30 17:11:22 GMT from North America)
It's slightly early for April Fools jokes, but I applaud you nonetheless!
69 • systemd (by eamonnb on 2015-03-30 17:26:10 GMT from Europe)
Congrats DW...all that instant outrage and streams of psychological projection.
70 • SystemD (by BrianL on 2015-03-30 17:32:23 GMT from Europe)
April Fool has been forked: Late March Fool.
71 • domination (by delta on 2015-03-30 17:52:08 GMT from Europe)
Already the 3rd poster found a reason for development to be done 'without having to wait for Linus'. Hoping for global monoply a for profit company may find its interest in forking kernel.
System Daemon tries to live up to its name, demon. Come up silently, at first bonding to a popular destkop environment [Gnome], getting to as much users as possible. Once tied, they will be more ready to get eased into other changes.
Really, for funs sake, how would you cook a frog? Say, you drop it in boiling water? It would jump out right away... But if you put it in cold water and then turn the heat on. Slowly?
72 • imho (by k on 2015-03-30 18:33:21 GMT from Europe)
(even if this is an april's fool joke...)
one should keep in mind that a kernel-fork with something interrelated into other (more surface-/userland-near) components of a system is more about politics than technicals. even if this not intended, it would be sooner or later. i wouldnt like that
73 • systemd forking the kernel (by Rich on 2015-03-30 18:35:19 GMT from North America)
Microsoft would be proud. This is a perfect example of the first two stages of their mantra: "embrace, extend, extinguish".
74 • GNU/systemd (by mw on 2015-03-30 18:36:04 GMT from Europe)
Sorry I thougt that 1st of April is on Wednesday, not today
75 • Plasma 5 (by charlieD on 2015-03-30 18:55:26 GMT from North America)
@57 Manjaro is still at Pre 5, I just checked there website.
76 • This was great, LMAO!!! (by Eddie on 2015-03-30 18:58:58 GMT from North America)
As usual people got bent out of shape over nothing. Very funny to see people act like idiots and some still don't realize that it's a joke. Funny indeed.
77 • Ask A Leader: Sunit Kumar Nandi (by latefordinner on 2015-03-30 19:08:17 GMT from North America)
does the study of heartbleed & shellshock et al improve developers quality assurance & security auditing ability?
78 • Systemd April 1st Joke (by Bill on 2015-03-30 19:52:31 GMT from North America)
79 • Systemd (by Scrumtime on 2015-03-30 20:19:20 GMT from North America)
Divide et impera Latin for Divide and Rule ( conquer)
a way of keeping yourself in a position of power by making the people under you disagree with each other so that they are unable to join together and remove you from your position
Maybe windows had started this rumour
80 • April fools weeks (by Alt Ek on 2015-03-30 20:45:26 GMT from Europe)
2015-03-30, the day the Systemd project forked Linux: Are you sure it's a joke? That seems like something the Systemd idiots would do, and it's not April 1st yet.
Anyway, April Fools is an irritating habit when it's done on April 1st. It's so much more annoying when it's spread out over weeks because every periodical has to participate even if they don't publish on the day.
81 • systemd (by bubbke on 2015-03-30 21:32:04 GMT from Europe)
Hmmm... Russian speaking community have no news about systemd (usually there are "holywars" about anything related to systemd), so I suppose that was Fool's Day joke.
Actually such new wouldn't be shocking for me, since I don't see anything scaring about the kernel forks. Any project can be forked anytime. Just remind Devuan, which by the way still haven't became Deabian-killer. Similar situation will happen with the kernel (if it will happen finally). Anyway it is up to you to decide whether to use systemd-kernel or pure linux.
82 • #80 (by anticapitalista on 2015-03-30 21:34:11 GMT from Europe)
"Anyway, April Fools is an irritating habit when it's done on April 1st. It's so much more annoying when it's spread out over weeks because every periodical has to participate even if they don't publish on the day."
It is even more worrying, IMO, that people just blindly accept anything written/said on tv/newpapers/magazines/blogs etc without question.
83 • SystemD "joke" (by Linux Lover on 2015-03-30 22:13:29 GMT from North America)
There's NOTHING funny about systemd
You got my hopes up that they were closing for the kill prematurely...that's not funny either.
84 • systemd linux (by stefan on 2015-03-30 22:34:43 GMT from Europe)
i don't understand the rumors about the message that systemd devs are forking the linux-kernel -- that's what it's made for, isn't it? And what's so bad about systemd anyway, i love it, just look how coreos e.g. is using it: making things very easy to maintain. I'm looking forward to a GNU/systemd/linux -- will be another option. Nothing is bad about slackware too, it's a matter of what you want your computers to do.
And whoever thinks he's doing just clear and familiar natural-langueage things when working on his SysV-Init script, doesn't know what he's doing. You can't avoid blobs unless u use a trigger switch to speak x86 instruction set with your machine -- or whatever architecture it is.
85 • Things were just starting to calm down... (by Milo on 2015-03-31 01:04:42 GMT from Europe)
As a community, the wounds, while still very much raw, were in the beginning stages of healing, even if it meant some people felt obligated to go a different way. At least people were beginning to move in productive directions, rather than the endless and poisonous hatefest that had been going on.
I know different people will have different reactions, but for me, this systemd April Fools attempt was poorly timed and really only served to stir back up the acrimony and conspiracy theories (which several of the reactionary comments demonstrate), but it is the latest, and final, indication to me that I need to move on from DistroWatch after years of readership. I leave bearing no ill will, and I wish all the best, but in the current environment, I don't think there is any constructive conversation to be had here either.
Also, threats of violence against Jesse (http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=121167#p572980), even if not seriously intended, are inappropriate, and are no better than numerous examples I've seen from zealots, such as https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/02/msg00462.html. Whether they agree or disagree, I had hoped that people could remain sensible adults, but it appear fanboy hysteria has won the day.
86 • systemd - the hidden demon (by M. Fraenkel on 2015-03-31 01:55:54 GMT from Europe)
All this shallow-brained clap speaking about the ostensibly harmless systemd - as if - fanboy hysteria - as if - conspiracy theory!
It's always easy to put someone in this corner, but to prove the opposite might be quite more difficult. Reality will overhaul those ones then sitting there saying how come we didn't see that.
Anyway, I wish the Devuan project good luck and many, many followers.
87 • @85 Two Linux camps (by cykodrone on 2015-03-31 02:24:31 GMT from North America)
Well said, the bearded Linux purists will stick to their non-systemd ways will the others will put their blind trust in Soylent Green distros. I wish them luck. If and when there's no more systemd-free Linux, then I switch to a BSD, that's if the barnacle-ware hasn't infected them by then too.
88 • GNU (by forlin on 2015-03-31 02:50:47 GMT from Europe)
GNU/systemd? No way.
Why opening the door for GNU/this, GNU/that or GNU/else? We already have enough distros :)
GNU/Linux was, is and should be the way to go.
89 • April Fools (by dooright on 2015-03-31 03:30:58 GMT from Europe)
Not just April. We wish systemd/Gnome would fork off any day of the year.
90 • systemd (by Coolsville on 2015-03-31 03:35:54 GMT from North America)
When UNIX brought small tools under one umbrella, it was not as invasive to other subsystems as systemd has become. For that reason, I find Poettering's response largely sophistry.
Originally, I was OK with the systemd idea, but I now think it has gone way too far. It seems to be spreading like a bad virus, and now seems to be taking over the kernel. Frankly, it looks more like a power grab than an init system.
It might be nice for commercial developers to be able to develop to a common core, but I would rather this core be common in only a subset of distros - leaving users the choice of using non-systemd distributions.
I use Xubuntu at present - but have used openSUSE, Debian, Mageia, Arch, etc. All have switched to systemd. Soon, anyone wanting a non-systemd distro will have few choices.
91 • systemd, the hidden demon (by M. Fraenkel on 2015-03-31 03:54:25 GMT from Europe)
As stated before: like a bad virus - BUT: not only like - it is a bad virus!
And the habit of a virus is that it cannot stop itself - like an obsessed creature.
And that's the way systemd pushers are acting, radically and recklessly - leaving no choice for other opinions!
And that is NOT a UNIX manner. Hopefully some more can recognize and act!
92 • Linux fork (by deant on 2015-03-31 05:17:17 GMT from Europe)
I am realy exited about that. Actualy sistemd devs are doing what Linus should have done LONG TIME AGO. Dont get me wrong, Linus is a great guy, and we love him for actualy develop the Linux kernel from scratch. But he is a Temper Temper guy, and should step back and look at the kernel from a diferent point. Its not a fun college experiment anymore. Billions od devices run his kernel now, the things are getting serious and there is no turning back. I want Linux to be a real alternative to MS Win, not only in server space but in the Desktop too. For that you need a well sticked core of the sistem, whixh is not only the kernel, but the booting tools, core tools and maybe, just maybe in near future - the graphics interface. You cannot deny that, without a good integration of graphics interface, you cant get linux to be a 100% alternative of win or osx. My wish is Linus to think about that, and even support this new project, or even join in. Take care, Distrowatch and keep up the good work.
93 • @ 86 • systemd - the hidden demon by M. Fraenkel (by Alex on 2015-03-31 05:55:06 GMT from Europe)
> Anyway, I wish the Devuan project good luck and many, many followers. <
https://devuan.org/donate.html The guy(s) had earned ~ 6000 euros without doing anything yet; https://git.devuan.org/explore and nothing here: https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng.
Maybe, its good way to earn...
94 • Systemd is about politics (by Linux Apocalypsis on 2015-03-31 07:20:50 GMT from Europe)
Reading quickly through the Debian fora and mailing lists, one realises how naive developers are. Most think that they can stay neutral just by claiming this is just a technical discussion. But it is not.
It is clear that the system (not d) has succeed at producing very clever and (technically) literate individuals who are, however, unable to see the big picture and have no clue about the world we live in.
The fact is that, with Android, Linux has become too big and commercially relevant to let Linus Torvalds and a group of aficionados manage it. So corporations are currently fighting to take over. They might not be able to "own" the thing, but they can control it. It is a war of power not of init times.
They could, of course, just fork the kernel and give it a different name. The problem is that, that way, they would lose most of the unpaid developers and user base (beta testers).
So they have devised a strategy to swallow the whole thing. Now they have systemd in all major distros and, as soon as those distros had adopted the systemd package manager (and other stuff such as network administration, graphics integration, etc), there will be no way back. They will be trapped. Why? Because, as I have explained before, as systemd become the universal administrative layer in all major Linux system all corporate developers will profit from it and all the drivers and installers will rely on systemd.
Then, and only then, they will fork the kernel. Of course, a minority will struggle to stay free but most people will just adapt (or migrate to BSD). Free Linux will become a minority kernel in the next few years.
95 • Systemd (by Linux Lover on 2015-03-31 07:58:00 GMT from North America)
One dep to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
How could our smartest be so blind?
96 • Systemd (by denk_mal on 2015-03-31 08:13:12 GMT from Europe)
because fools day is TOMORROW, not today or yesterday
could you *really* be sure that forking the kernel by the systemd dev would not happen?
I am really not surprised if they will doing this.
97 • SystemD (by Russ Whitaker on 2015-03-31 08:26:02 GMT from North America)
Carry systemd to its logical conclusion and everyone will have three choices:
a Mac, Microsoft, or systemd.
98 • systemd (by bubbke on 2015-03-31 08:59:16 GMT from Europe)
Sorry, but some comments look like medieval religious slogans to me :).
Despite all cons systemd has the same right to live as any other project. And by the way it is supported and accepted by many developers. I just can't understand why people are so agressive. Where is the problem?
Why no one is concerned about dozens of Ubuntu-like distributions? As for me they bring nothing to linux except "shiny new cute wallpapers", i.e. they are just consuming resources without producing anything at all.
99 • systemd and kernel (by jb on 2015-03-31 09:21:41 GMT from Europe)
If that's indeed the game played, it is dangerous to GNU and Linux future.
What about GNU Hurd as an alternative ? Would shifting of emphasis on its development
With regard to Linux, GNU Hurd, and GNU tools - is is time to look for a new license
type that woud make sure that they really stay "free and open" as originally intended and
that unwanted interests (corporate or within open source development movement) do not
gain unwanted control over them and do not have say in forming a direction for them ?
Also, a new governance that would prevent hijacking a la systemd of software architecture
internals from occuring ?
100 • systemd, the hidden demon (by M. Fraenkel on 2015-03-31 13:39:55 GMT from Europe)
Guys, as stated before: Despite all cons systemd has the same right to live as any other project.
But is has no right in my view for example to kick out users trying to do a fresh sabayon linux install due to not having the newest nvidia graphic card in their pc's. And exactly that is what's happening. Surely there are ways to get around especially this problem, but where does that end?!
As if - medieval religious slogans!
And it has no right to force users into an unmanageable and weiry situation anyhow. However if it still does that, nobody should ask why linux has a hard stand against the alternatives.
By the way, MAC or Windows to me are NO alternatives, and BSD is far too tricky to configure for a beginning user.
101 • BSD and systemd fork (by bison on 2015-03-31 14:55:54 GMT from North America)
I'm already hedging my bets and learning BSD. PC-BSD is a good place to start because it's easy to configure, but I really like DragonFly, even though I haven't got a completely working installation yet.
But I don't think it will come to the point where I switch completely switch over to BSD. I expect systemd really will fork the kernel someday. Redhat probably has the resources to maintain a fork, and we're getting closer to the point of irreconcilable differences on design goals, so I think it's inevitable. And not a bad thing, if done right.
102 • Systemd As An April Fools Joke (by 2damncommon on 2015-03-31 15:53:55 GMT from North America)
How much of a joke is reporting something that is completely plausible.
BREAKING NEWS. ISIS has beheaded John Kerry!!!
103 • After tomorrow there will be a new saying in open source: (by Sander on 2015-03-31 16:25:52 GMT from Europe)
The old fashion way:
- "if you can't beat them, join them"
- "Don't rage quit the game!"
The new way:
- "if you can't contribute it, fork it"
- "Don't rage fork the project!"
104 • Ask a Leader - all four (by Tourbali on 2015-03-31 17:28:15 GMT from Europe)
Could the systemd project one day overtake the Linux kernel? And if so, would this be as bad as many of the comments suggest?
105 • April Fools! (by DaveMC on 2015-03-31 17:31:34 GMT from North America)
I have to agree that this April Fools joke is in poor taste. These things are not supposed to rub people the wrong way, but rather, they are supposed to be light hearted and fun pranks that are designed to make people laugh, not gasp in horror.
106 • Systemd (by Henry Martin on 2015-03-31 18:28:01 GMT from North America)
OK. We get it already. This is an April Fools joke.
But look, there really IS a debate about systemd (the daemon replacement for init etc) going on. I am not too pleased with the init tool. It feels like it makes things HARDER to do, not easier. I liked the ease and convenience of parsing out the log info I wanted using grep or even a short inline perl at the command line. Call me old fart, if you like, but I like the flexibility and simplicity of access to the information.
But that isn't to say I am against the idea. I just hope that at least some distros will continue to support the more conservative UNIX-style implementations, maybe forking the majors off -- of course, that creates yet more distros, but... alas, that has been the history of Linux forever hasn't it? So I don't see anything wrong with this.
I have started learning the journalctl tool. I find its options a bit limiting, and many times, I still have to filter its output to discover the info I need or want. But whatever. I'll be sticking with the older stuff. Maybe some folks here will push for alternative distros that accommodate us hardcore "fanatics" (not my words, just what I think they probably think).
107 • @ 106 • Systemd by Henry Martin (by Alex on 2015-03-31 19:10:43 GMT from Europe)
> OK. We get it already. This is an April Fools joke.
But look, there really IS a debate about systemd (the daemon replacement for init etc) going on. <
Actually, the joke was not about Systemd--maybe, that was the original idea--but, about forking the Linux kernel. Now, why should it be a joke? We think that Linux is something holy, and no one would ever think of forking it. But, why not?
If someone would really fork it, would that be a joke?
108 • Not impressed (by IJ on 2015-03-31 21:33:14 GMT from North America)
I bet the developers at Tails were delighted to have their distro reviewed this week. I'm not sure they garnered a single comment amongst all the systemd BS...
109 • Linux & systemd (by M.Z. on 2015-03-31 23:36:06 GMT from Planet Mars)
I'm fairly certain Linux was already a force in the corporate server market long before Android came along, so no that didn't really change all that much. In fact if I remember right Android originally ran on a fork of the Linux kernel that was later merged back with the mainline kernel. All that changed was more direct contribution from Google & other Droid device makers & better support for ARM. Red Hat still has big money from corporate servers & still does more of the work than any other single company, although they only make a modest portion of Linux & need to keep it GPL.
I see the whole fork talk as proof positive that the GPL is doing the job intended & giving users the power to do whatever they want with GPL software, be that forking a project or dropping a software package like systemd. This init software really has no more power over Linux as a whole than Gnome did when it pushed that shell garbage on everyone. When Gnome 3 came out Ubuntu & Mint drop kicked the packages out of their default installation because it was bad for users, & the same can happen with systemd if there are too many problems. If you don't like systemd and want something else right now there are also other options like PCLinuxOS, which is a fairly nice desktop distro. Of course you can also look up lists of non-systemd distros if you want, & support those projects. The power of the GPL is that no one can take your GPL software away & close the source code, so if you don't like something in Linux you can support developers doing what you want & use a non-systemd distro or one with a systemd fork like uselessd. That's right systemd was already forked, which can happen when someone doesn't like your open source project. Rest assured, if you're using GPL software you have the right to the source code & can do whatever you want to it as long as you keep the same license. No worries, you are in charge of your computer with Linux, relax & have a happy April 1st.
110 • Hilarious comment from a forum... (by cykodrone on 2015-04-01 02:45:43 GMT from North America)
cjcox over at Phoronix said...
"Well... there's some misinformation here. While it's true that the kernel is not being forked it's because it's being obsoleted!
According to Uve Benhad, one of the key developers, systemd will become self-aware in less than one day."
Self-aware, too funny!
111 • Classic April Fools nerdism! Well Done. (SystemD) (by G.Wolfe Woodbury on 2015-04-01 05:18:16 GMT from North America)
Some of the best April Fools nerdy jokes have taken a bit of time to prepare and were no presented on exactly April 1. It also is classic in that it takes on the form of something that could be plausible. Check out Tom Limmoncelli's book about April 1 RFCs for a bit of history.
I have modified some of my opposition to systemD to the extent tat I grant it some niceness as a replacement init system, but it fails miserably in regards to being overreaching and requiring too many additional changes to use in combination with other system tools. Personally, I prefer the mathod OpenRC uses to extend the SysVinit system to enable run-time sequence calculation. [I haven't studied Upstart, so I don't have a valid opinion about it.]
Additionally, there are some massive personalty and philosophical differences between the systemD group and a more "traditional" interpretion of open source development.
112 • @109 Power balance (by Linux Apocalypsis on 2015-04-01 07:01:35 GMT from Europe)
Yes, you can fork whatever you please. And it will be irrelevant because noone will use your fork, no matter how much better it is as compared to the mainstream project. Why? Well, there are several reasons, but the most important one when it comes to hardware and software is: compatibility. We have seen this many times.
So, as stated previously, you are right, they cannot "own" the kernel, but they can control it. The whole thing is about swifting the equilibrium of powers. Now they co-manage and soon they will rule.
As for your first proposition: you cannot copare the server market and the mobile devices market. This is so evident that I will not waste my and your time explaining it. It is not organges and apples, it is oranges and asteroids...
113 • April Fools (by hobbitland on 2015-04-01 10:42:39 GMT from Europe)
The systemd kernel fork sounds like April Fools. I switch off during April Fools. Its all a waste of time. Never believe you read during these days.
Don't even think about making real announcements during April Fools. Oh, Mozilla released Firefox 37.0
114 • Debian without systemd (by zcatav on 2015-04-01 11:20:39 GMT from Europe)
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation Is it possible so easy to run Debian without systemd?
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/kfreebsd-i386/iso-cd/ Is it an alternative?
115 • systemd (by woua on 2015-04-01 12:44:36 GMT from Europe)
R. Stallman himself, when asked for the systemd issue, said that he doesn't care since from an ethical point of view systemd is under GPL license it is free and that the issue is only a matter of convinience.
I couldn't agree more, Red hat is following a microsoft-like policy for her products. Very well let them do what they want. You don't like systemd...don't use it.
It is all about freedom
116 • forking linux kernel (by sam on 2015-04-01 16:00:08 GMT from Africa)
Serious question appearing here, to those who understand more about the kernel please, has the linux kernel ever been forked? It is forkable (legally and technically)? If the answer to first question is no and the answer to the second yes, why hasn't anyone thought of forking it?
117 • @116 forking the Linux kernel (by Kazlu on 2015-04-01 16:18:21 GMT from Europe)
Like M.Z. said on comment #109, Android forked the Linux kernel and maintained it for a while before merging back its kernel with the main Linux kernel. Also, Ubuntu uses a parallel version of the kernel, but it may be nothing more that what #3 Henrique says, being every distro patches the kernel to some extent.
118 • @117 forking the Linux kernel by Kazlu (by Alex on 2015-04-01 17:59:11 GMT from Europe)
Android is a mobile OS based on the Linux kernel and currently developed by Google. The kernel used there had been so forked that it has to be re-forked to get Android working in x86 machines. Google also showed us that forking Linux kernel was so successful that there were over one billion active monthly Android users. Interestingly the kernel used in Android is 3.4 and 3.10, whereas we consider those kernels as old.
119 • Forking the kernel (by Linux Apocalypsis on 2015-04-01 18:50:55 GMT from Europe)
If patching the vanilla kernel accounts as "forking", then, yes, the kernel is continuously being forked. One of the most conspicuous patched kernels is Zen (see for instance the Liquorix project):
For a while, this kernel was considered to provide better desktop responsiveness and it became quite popular among gamers. However, the Phoronix benchmarks have demonstrated that a recent vanilla kernel provides better performance.
Regarding the Stallman resmarks, with all the due respect, Richard can afford using exclusively free software and therefore he does not need to care much about Linux kernel politics. He does not mind using a minority distro and, besides, the whole thing can be good to resurrect the Hurd.
However, those who need proprietary drivers, CUDA, Intel compilers, third-party installers and the like will soon become prisoners of systemd.
120 • systemd (by Coolsville on 2015-04-01 19:00:45 GMT from North America)
OK, you magnificent bastards, you got me. Its pathetic when you sneak up on a guy on March 30th. Wasn't even April 1st yet!!!! Have you no shame!?
But that's STILL how I feel about systemd. So There!
And get off my lawn.
121 • apples & asteroids (by M.Z. on 2015-04-02 03:24:50 GMT from Planet Mars)
Yes severs & smart phones are very different & the companies behind Android have a very different agenda than Red Hat or SUSE; however, the fact remains that Linux isn't controlled by any one company. It is controlled in part by dozens of companies, but none has more than moderate influence. Last I heard no one company did even 20% of kernel development, & individual contributors actually did more than any one company. That may have changed, but Linux is still free & not truly under control of anyone. Point me to proof that someone is doing over 50% of kernel work & independent devs feel controlled & then I'll start to worry, most of the rest is speculation. Life is good & there remain plenty of good Linux distros with & without systemd, as well as a few BSD alternatives.
122 • @112, 121, power balance (by Kazlu on 2015-04-02 07:06:14 GMT from Europe)
#121 M.Z., I'm with you on this. Indeed, if too many people are pissed off, they can counter attack and take over. See the example of LibreOffice over OpenOffice. Of course if should be hard to counter attack big companies, but right now no one "controls" Linux, there are several independant companies that contribute. So, as long as Google has not bought them all, it will be difficult for a single company to control everything. And if it does, there will be enough pissed off people and companies to counter attack.
123 • @53 Ubuntu MATE (by Kazlu on 2015-04-02 07:11:07 GMT from Europe)
"2-docky over plank (plank has some advantages over docky,location of the dock-bar but docky has the elegance no dock-bar can bring)"
I don't see any dock, only MATE panels, are we talking about the same Ubuntu MATE?
"5-gedit over pluma"
That wouldn't make sense: pluma is part of MATE, gedit is part of GNOME. Pluma makes full use of libraries you already loaded by just using MATE, whereas using gedit will get you to install and load into RAM a big bunch of GNOME dependancies... This seems really ineffective as far as system resources are concerned. What does gedit bring that you can't find with pluma?
124 • @98 (by Kazlu on 2015-04-02 07:16:27 GMT from Europe)
First, the Linux kernel fork is highly probably an April fools joke. But you asked what was the problem with systemd. This question has already been answered, there are multiple answers here and in other places of the Interet. Some people are worried, for different reasons: division in the Linux world, centralization of projects leading to big companies controlling more of and more the code used for our systems, adoption by many distros of a tool that is still in motion and is demanding a lot of work to catch up every time, one big piece of software becoming a target for many more systems because of its ubiquity, etc. Some are really subjective points, others are less. Some consider the pros outweight the cons, some not. One way or another, this is a very big change, so that implies risks, so people get worried, so they get angry.
"Why no one is concerned about dozens of Ubuntu-like distributions? As for me they bring nothing to linux except "shiny new cute wallpapers", i.e. they are just consuming resources without producing anything at all."
It does not work like that. You cannot easily swap "resources" in the GNU/Linux world. People do what they want and what they are able to do. Do you think the guys that do those multiple Ubuntu respins are all able to work on the kernel? I don't :)
125 • @ 121 • apples & asteroids by M.Z. (by Alex on 2015-04-02 07:47:15 GMT from Europe)
>Yes severs & smart phones are very different & the companies behind Android have a very different agenda than Red Hat or SUSE; however, the fact remains that Linux isn't controlled by any one company. It is controlled in part by dozens of companies, but none has more than moderate influence.<
If more than 80% of the Linux developers are paid by the companies, how could we say this corporate influence as moderate? The companies may have different names, different director boards, but they usually have clubs, associations to meet up, discuss and take decisions over a drink.
126 • @97 systemd (by Thomas Mueller on 2015-04-02 11:32:43 GMT from North America)
"Carry systemd to its logical conclusion and everyone will have three choices:
a Mac, Microsoft, or systemd."
Don't forget FreeBSD and Haiku!
127 • "nothing except shiny cute wallpapers"... a reminder of what GUI stands for. (by frodopogo on 2015-04-02 19:51:11 GMT from North America)
First of all, I'm curious as to which distros you mean. Mint?
I think your comment shows a bias I see fairly often in the Linux world.
People who are good at writing code often have a very poor grasp of esthetics.
And because they've learned at least one computer language and use it well, the concept of a GUI is somewhat foreign.... someone who codes is meeting the computer much more than halfway... the tendency is to assume that everyone can do that, and it should be obvious by now that they can't.
Linux systems have featured graphical user interfaces for a very long time now.
The whole point of a graphical user interface is accommodating the USER. It's an interface or connection between the machine and the user.
Users have esthetic preferences, they have a sense of taste. Apple gets this, that is much of the reason why they are so successful. If a graphical USER interface is functional but as ugly as can be (Like a lot of Soviet era architecture, perhaps) it fails to be an effective connection between the machine and the user... because the user is human, they have emotions, preferences, and an esthetic sense... well, in most cases! If the user interface is GRAPHICAL it means it can be SEEN, and people like to look at "pretty" a whole lot more than they like to look at "ugly". These more esthetically oriented distros should be a reminder to coders that esthetics DO matter when it comes to GUIs.
There is a problem with esthetics is that it's a BIG challenge to find something that will appeal to people all over the world. Apple manages to do it, but it's not easy. This is probably one of the reasons for these national respins- each culture tends to have a different esthetic sense. So.... of course code is important- but esthetics are too.
Wallpaper may seem trivial, but for a new computer user or a computer user new to an operating system, getting new wallpapers may not be nearly as obvious as it is to you and I. Therefore, having a set of visually appealing wallpapers preloaded with the operating system will help the new user enjoy it at the same time they are learning it. Eventually they will understand things well enough to download their own wallpapers, and it will seem trivial... but until that point, it's NOT.
The other reason for respins is of course language. If someone knows an operating system well, they could easily go in and change the default language to their own. But if someone is new to the operating system AND English isn't their native language, changing the default language is WAY more than you could rightly expect them to do. I had a neighbor whose native language is Spanish, and whose English is weak, despite years of working at it. But he had bought a Windows laptop, and wanted help. I did a search on Distrowatch, found Trisquel (based on Ubuntu), and he's as happy as can be with it, and all I had to do was show him how to use it ONCE. So I'm REALLY glad that this website provides information on projects in other languages.
Basically, if the interface is in the wrong language, if FAILS to interface the computer with that particular user. So it's not a trivial thing, either.
128 • Never said that (by M.Z. on 2015-04-02 21:21:47 GMT from Planet Mars)
"If more than 80% of the Linux developers are paid by the companies, how could we say this corporate influence as moderate?"
The answer is simple, I never said that. The point is that no one company is in control, & what control there is over the kernel if offset both by the sheer volume of companies from all over the world, & of course the nature of the GPL license. The newer GPL 3 was actually designed in part to solve some problems that the free software foundation believed were happening with some copies of Linux, & if big problems occur I'd guess a new license would fix them too as long as there were real issues that Linus & the kernel devs thought needed fixing.
129 • ...a reminder of what GUI stands for (by bubbke on 2015-04-02 22:08:12 GMT from Europe)
Actually it was a kind of a sick joke. Sorry if it sounded offensively to you.
130 • GUI (by Kragle on 2015-04-03 03:04:09 GMT from North America)
A GUI allows the user to focus on the task, rather than such distractions as spelling or syntax; a good GUI design includes methods for access to advanced options and procedures, sometimes in multiple layers.
Perhaps this could be a discussion launching topic for purveyors of "simplified-for-beginners" systems, giving fearless Leaders a chance to deny "dumbing-down", or at least imply plans for future enhancements.
131 • Off by a day or two (by bison on 2015-04-03 03:58:44 GMT from North America)
> Some of the best April Fools nerdy jokes have taken a bit of time to prepare and were no presented on exactly April 1.
Right. There's Windows 95, for instance, which came out on August 24.
132 • GUI (by Angel on 2015-04-03 05:13:10 GMT from Asia)
@127 Excellent points! First thing I do after installing a distro is set it up to my taste. If I'm going to spend hours every day looking at it, I'd rather it look pleasant to me.
@130 Same! I can spell and I can type, I just can't seem to do both at the same time.:-) Using the command line is a chore, so I keep lists of commands that I may need so I can just cut and paste.
While I'm at it, a vote of appreciation to all who offer help online and take the time to make sure the needed commands can be pasted to the terminal. Makes life a lot easier.
133 • 'wallpaper distros' & such (by M.Z. on 2015-04-03 07:14:43 GMT from Planet Mars)
re # 128
Just to be clear, it is obvious that there is a fair amount of corporate interest given the number of Linux service providers; however, individual companies only have moderate influence over Linux as a whole.
You make some fair points, but I also think #124 hit the nail on the head about all those random remakes. Some tinkerer has an itch they want to scratch & they decide to do a distro. Good for them, that's part of what the GPL is there for. Give users control & they will create something they find aesthetically pleasing, or easy to understand etc. If its here today & gone tomorrow then so be it. Of course some may use work in one little side project as a springboard into something bigger & get a cushy job at some big Linux service provider where they can really work on the guts of Linux & fix problems. That could be awesome too, it just depends on what the tinkerer wants out of their little distro & whether they want to go further after they try making something a bit different that is all their own. I think those little distros do a lot of good, even if they just scratch an itch for their creators.
134 • Kubuntu & Plasma 5 (by speedytux on 2015-04-03 11:35:11 GMT from Europe)
"Riddell claims Kubuntu will be the first Linux distribution to offer a stable release with the Plasma 5 desktop."
Archlinux announced the switch on january 26th 2015.
135 • @134 Kubuntu & Plasma 5 (by Kazlu on 2015-04-03 12:06:09 GMT from Europe)
The annoucement was subtle: it did not say "first Linux distribution to offer Plasma 5" but "first Linux distribution to offer a *stable release* with the Plasma 5 desktop." Arch Linux has no such things as "stable release", it rolls :)
I did non say anything when #57 Johan Borgstrøm mentionned Manjaro because, officially, Majaro does indeed "releases" of snapshots of its "stable" repositories, but that's borderline!
136 • GNU (by forlin on 2015-04-03 12:37:17 GMT from Europe)
Jesse, who wrote about GNU/Systemd, must be laughing like a Boss!!!
137 • @ 128 • Never said that by M.Z. (by Alex on 2015-04-03 13:18:09 GMT from Europe)
>"If more than 80% of the Linux developers are paid by the companies, how could we say this corporate influence as moderate?"
The answer is simple, I never said that. The point is that no one company is in control, & what control there is over the kernel if offset both by the sheer volume of companies from all over the world, & of course the nature of the GPL license. <
If you'd check the Linux Foundation report, you'd find out that more than 80% of the Linux kernel contributors are paid by companies, which means the corporate influence is very high to say the kernel is that free. I know that the corporate heads usually meet at clubs in the corporate world, so how can be say the corporate influence as moderate? No one does anything for free. Have you seen the "donate" icon in practically all distro web sites?
138 • @137 Linux contributors (by Kazlu on 2015-04-03 15:01:54 GMT from Europe)
What M.Z. said, or at least what I've understood, and I agree with it, is that among the companies that contribute to Linux, no one does more than 11%. So no single company is in control by far. Every company has to do with others. For now at least.
"I know that the corporate heads usually meet at clubs in the corporate world"
Yeah, sure. That's where they decide the fate of the world and the next time an eclipse occurs. I'm not saying there are no secret arrangements, but given the number of companies working on Linux and the and the fact that there is no company that has monopoly by far, it would be difficult to anyone to impose something alone. No one is powerful enough to decide alone of the future of Linux among those companies, thay have to compromise with others, which is good. And in the end, Linus Torvalds still has the last word, since he is the project leader... That's the man who has the power. I think we're pretty lucky for now, he might have a temper but he's a good guy for this role. I don't know what will come next...
139 • Linux vs Win & Mac (by M.Z. on 2015-04-03 19:42:56 GMT from Planet Mars)
I think this whole corporate influence thing boils down to on core problem with Linux when compared to Windows & Mac. For Win & Mac users monolithic corporate influence & control is a given & everyone can just just ignore it & go about their business in ignorant bliss; however, in Linux we are given the promise of user control via the GPL, & after being given such a powerful thing we have to invent conspiracies to give ourselves an excuse to be weary of the kind of corporate control we see lorded over other computer users. Everyone knows that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, & no one who uses Linux wants to be forced to use some bloated half thought out mess like Windows 8, so people naturally feel that anytime there is a problematic piece of software put into Linux distros it is an excuse to ring the alarm bells. Even if it isn't strictly necessary at least the bells act as a safety drill. Then comes the excessive amount of back & fourth comments about the topic, & we just keep going in circles.
The fact remains that all software vendors that use GPL software have opted in to a license that is explicitly designed to create control & rights for all users. Not only that but the GPL has stood the test of time & defeated numerous legal challenges while continuing to guarantee user rights. As # 138/Kazlu indicates, corporate collusion & control is unlikely given the diverse nature of the companies creating Linux all over the world, & those who create Linux have accepted that they are giving control to users. Not only do Linux makers accept user control, but they admit it to their users & use things like 'no vendor lock in' as proof of the long term value proposition of Linux. Perhaps it's because I'm in the US, but I don't think I've heard drug companies admit that they should work hard to provide value to customers because generic drugs exist & should remain available to all. Drug makers over here prefer to play games with patents that drag out their singular control over drugs for as long as possible. In the Linux world I think Red Hat vendors would admit that you can get a generic version of their OS from Debian of SUSE, and they would say that gives them a reason to work that much harder at customer service.
Corporate influence in Linux is very different than in other areas because if Red Hat tries to diminish the generic version of Linux by making some new features in their OS, they will still have to release all code under the GPL. This means even if they want to take control all of their changes will simply be released by customers because they understand the value proposition of the GP. Part the value of having other equally good version of Linux as another option. This is an example of how the GPL really forces everyone to cooperate openly in a way that is totally alien to most of the corporate world. It is a very radically different model of creating something, so people can be forgiven for suspecting that things are actually operating the same in Linux as they do in other parts of the corporate world. I don't like & trust Red Hat & most other Linux makers just because the people in change their seem to 'get it' or be nice or whatever, even though they do seem to get it. I actually dislike some o the stuff Red Hat has been the top contributor to like Gnome 3, but then the GPL came along & let Mint create something useful out of the Gnome 3 mess by making Cinnamon. A major reason I trust these companies is that I think even if someone bad takes over Red Hat or SUSE or any other top Linux contributor some version of the GPL will eventually reign in their worst tendencies & retain user control. I know the world in general is fairly screwed up at times, but I think things are far better here in Linux land than any of the pessimists would suspect, & this is due to the amazing degree of user control.
140 • Linux freedom. (by Kubelik on 2015-04-03 23:20:07 GMT from Europe)
@ 138 "... given the number of companies working on Linux and the and the fact that there is no company that has monopoly by far, it would be difficult to anyone to impose something alone."
@ 139 "Everyone knows that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"
@ 139 "The fact remains that all software vendors that use GPL software have opted in to a license that is explicitly designed to create control & rights for all users."
@ 139 "I know the world in general is fairly screwed up at times, but I think things are far better here in Linux land than any of the pessimists would suspect, & this is due to the amazing degree of user control."
4 x Amen:)
141 • Global warming, the "Big One" (earthquake) in Calif. (by Jordan on 2015-04-04 00:06:04 GMT from North America)
Corporate take over of Linux.
This discussion today ... wow.
There is an elephant in the room and it has the appearance of inevitability.
142 • In keeping with April Fools'... (by cykodrone on 2015-04-04 16:33:31 GMT from North America)
systemd has been re-branded to 'systemDominator', they have also adopted a new motto, "vee vill rrrrrrool zee verld!". ;D
143 • Systemd-April Fools (by Leonard Ashley on 2015-04-05 01:22:56 GMT from North America)
Regardless of it may or not be an April Fools joke concerning forking systemd, fact is that the whole situation really spills out about "mistrust". We all thought Microsoft had a monopoly on that in it's entirety. Facts are there is a lot of mistrust, and uncertainty about Debian's future. Sure it will be around, but will not resemble what we thought it would become. I believe it's time to head over to BSD.
144 • @114 (by DJ on 2015-04-05 07:13:45 GMT from North America)
I have to agree with Stallman and I'm getting tired of the Religious bigotry of the anti-SystemD movement.
can't we just get along. - Rodney King
145 • Religious bigotry? (by cykodrone on 2015-04-05 14:39:05 GMT from North America)
@144 What does MS style corporate creep in the GNU Linux landscape have to do with religion? So I guess you are saying all political uprisings against different forms of oppression were fuelled by zealots too? You might be comfortable with having your choices and freedoms controlled or extinguished altogether by a single entity, I and many others are not.
You are missing the big picture, soon all DE and app developers with have to make their software compatible with systemd, eventually dropping any support for other inits. DEs and apps should be init agnostic, not drag in an UNWANTED init as a dependency. Also, an init should not take almost total control of your system, it creates a huge attack surface. People are already finding flaws and security weaknesses, if you have a good search engine, you can see for yourself, I've already watched some interesting videos of people breaching systemd. It's already a joke, and not just during April Fools'.
146 • init (by M.Z. on 2015-04-05 21:27:16 GMT from Planet Mars)
The systemd topic has been called 'Humour' for several days, so there really is no question of if it is or isn't anything. As for BSD, well I like to use it as a firewall but there really isn't good enough hardware support for a PC system from what I've seen. Also the GPL does a lot more to protect your rights as a user, so an evil takeover is probably a bit less likely in Linux. Of course there are also plenty of Linux distros without systemd & I feel confident that there will be for some time to come. I seriously doubt most DEs will have an absolute requirement for systemd, & if any do you can just change to another DE.
I agree that it isn't really religious, this whole thing seems more like a conspiracy theory. The only difference is that instead of talking about who shot JFK or the evil left wing climate conspiracy everyone in Linux is talking about a piece of init software and how a few programs have tied in too closely with it. It really isn't the end of the free software world, at most its more like a few folks moving into some set camp of systemd using software. This could have some negative implications, but then again a fair amount of Linux desktop software like Firefox & LibreOffice also run on Windows & Mac, which will never use systemd. This ensures that systemd requirements aren't likely to be absolute for most desktop Linux software. Like most conspiracy theories the systemd one doesn't seem to match the hype; however, people just love to talk conspiracies, so the discussion will keep going in circles forever regardless of the reality.
147 • @145 • Religious bigotry? (by mandog on 2015-04-05 21:50:17 GMT from South America)
I think you really need to take a good look at what you have written over the last few months SystemD is not going to take over the world Linux is not going to crumble because of systemD, so you don't like it so what use something else systemD will not miss you nor will systemD users,
Learn Gentoo/slackware or go back to Windows its free for 12 months then come back and complain about SystemD and by the way Ms has contributed to the linux kernel in 2010 I think they contributed 3.5 million lines of code so if there are any back doors in Linux they were added then?
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|• Issue 779 (2018-09-03): Redcore 1806, keeping ISO downloads safe from tampering, Lubuntu makes Calamares more flexible, Ubuntu improves GNOME performance|
|• Issue 778 (2018-08-27): GuixSD 0.15.0, ReactOS 0.4.9, Steam supports Windows games on Linux, Haiku plans for beta, merging disk partitions|
|• Issue 777 (2018-08-20): YunoHost 188.8.131.52, limiting process resource usage, converting file systems on Fedora, Debian turns 25, Lubuntu migrating to Wayland|
|• Issue 776 (2018-08-13): NomadBSD 1.1, Maximum storage limits on Linux, openSUSE extends life for 42.3, updates to the Librem 5 phone interface|
|• Full list of all issues|
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the Star Lite, Star LabTop and more. Available with a choice of Ubuntu, Linux Mint or Zorin OS pre-installed with many more distributions supported. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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Hancom Linux, headquartered in Seoul, Korea, specializes in developing Linux-based applications for desktop computers and information appliances. Founded in 1999, the company employs more than 90 employees in 5 locations worldwide.