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1 • Fedora 21, good distro, unsatisfactory install (long, tedious). (by Jeffersonian on 2014-12-22 03:21:06 GMT from United States)
In my view, (a technical guy) Fedora remains the most solid, effective distro, with well tested packages (excellent repositories : "rpmfusion" too).
For Kernel work, Fedora is a lot easier to use than the Debian based (Ubuntu, Mint).
And I do love the latest applications.
---
This being said, Fedora 21 installer, is barely better that F21, F19, F18, etc...
It requires Linux expertise, and is a long process (especially from a Live Flash drive).
When your machine has a Broadcom Wi-Fi chip set, install is not for the faint of heart (I have learned how to do this), this being a breeze with Mint 17.1 for example.
A positive recent thing is that Fedora 21 Live, now include "gparted" to help with partitioning, rather that using the atrocious anaconda tools, but the DVD install may not give this option.
I installed MATE, still my favorite, some applets are still failing (as in Fedora 20).
Why would not the most popular applications (Libre-Office, gvim, kmods, akmod, kernel_devel, fslint, bleachbit, evolution, and a few more, installed on request during the same install ?
The Kernel, is still 3.17 but 3.18 shall be here soon, with an update.
Hope the yumex-dk is still not available (for dnf)...
Unfortunatly very promising "LXQt" windows manager is not part of Fedora 21, at least not know.
After about a week of use, I really like Fedora 21, and above all I do like the latest packages showing real improvements, for example Evolution (not available on Fedora 20 respositories, because of dependencies with more recent libraries).
Jeffersonian.
2 • Korora after Fedora (by Justiniano on 2014-12-22 09:49:12 GMT from Philippines)
Korora makes Fedora more useful to the everyday user the same way that Mint improves you know what. Simplicity is another derivative (from Puppy) that is subjectively better.
3 • Fedora and multimedia support (by far2fish on 2014-12-22 11:50:32 GMT from Denmark)
I have been using Fedora since the start of the project a little over 10 years ago. For the past year it has been my only desktop OS. I fully agree with Jesse that Fedora is not something I would recommend to family and friends. But that can easily be said about Debian and openSUSE too. They are all medium level Linux distributions.
Personally I believe Fedora's major issue is their blind faith in FOSS. The lack of media codec availability during install makes it more difficult for novice users. Having to add 3rd party repositories for something as simple as playing a MP3 file should not be happening in 2014. At the end of the day, developers are end users too. I can fully understand that many developers and experienced Linux users chooses Ubuntu or Mint for the simplicity of having a desktop OS that out-of-the-box supports both work and play.
I know Ubuntu and Mint are less restrictive with multimedia support since they originates from Isle of Man and Ireland, but Fedora could easily also have spins available for downloads in Europe with multimedia support to circumvent this.
4 • F21 (by hadrons123 on 2014-12-22 12:08:10 GMT from United States)
I have used fedora in the past, But now a total Debian user.
Cant imagine how fedora workstation became so irritating to use. I installed on my system and it was such a pain with bugs all around.
5 • Fedora 21 (by seatex on 2014-12-22 13:10:10 GMT from United States)
I decided to give Fedora 21 a try, after last using Fedora a couple of years ago. It only reminded me why I left it. Gnome 3.14 (supposedly vastly improved) is still utterly painful to use on a desktop or workstation environment. I know there are other spins available, but this is the one they chose as the standard? I also echo many others who feel the Fedora developers need to actually look at what users like about Ubuntu and Mint - easy access to proprietary drivers and media codecs - and learn from that. Even developers want an easy to use OS.
6 • @5 What about software patents ? (by Frederic Bezies on 2014-12-22 13:13:42 GMT from France)
I'm using Gnome Shell on my archlinux, and it works not too bad. Maybe it is arch power ? :D
"I also echo many others who feel the Fedora developers need to actually look at what users like about Ubuntu and Mint - easy access to proprietary drivers and media codecs - and learn from that. Even developers want an easy to use OS."
Correct me but in the US - but hopefully not in Europe for now - there is something called software patents which is really a PITA for software developers.
By the way, you could add RPM Fusion repositories and get third party codecs from it.
7 • Fedora 21 (by seatex on 2014-12-22 13:24:21 GMT from United States)
> Correct me but in the US - but hopefully not in Europe for now - there is something called software patents which is really a PITA for software developers."
Yes, but that doesn't stop Ubuntu or Mint from making them easy to install.
> "By the way, you could add RPM Fusion repositories and get third party codecs from it."
Again, this shouldn't be necessary. Look at what people like in the more successful distros and adopt it, or don't and continue wondering why more people don't use your distro.
8 • F21 (by mikeh on 2014-12-22 13:32:49 GMT from United States)
If Jesse had set the nonproduct switch on the install maybe his experience with Fedora 21 would have been more positive. I'm not a tekkie, just a user. I've hopped onto most distros but none offer me the base solidity and package freshness that Fedora does. And that's all I need in a distribution.
9 • Fedora 21 (by Tide on 2014-12-22 13:45:18 GMT from Malawi)
Have been running Fedora 21 since Day 1 of release with 'some minor' niggles (non of which have been showstoppers). I thought it would only be fair to set the record straight on a couple of points.
1. Multimedia support from 3rd party vendors has been available from Day 1 of release. The following got me what I needed:
yum -y localinstall --nogpgcheck http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release.rpm
yum -y install lame gstreamer-plugins-bad-nonfree gstreamer-plugins-ugly gstreamer-ffmpeg gstreamer1-plugins-bad-freeworld gstreamer1-plugins-ugly gstreamer1-libav gstreamer-plugin-crystalhd gstreamer1-vaapi ffmpeg libdvdcss
2. Fedora 21 also now ships with Gnome-Boxes. It makes setting up 'virtualization' a breeze for other linux distros. I am yet to try it with Windows, but from what I've heard on forums, that might not be working out so well
I am no Linux guru by any long shot, and consider myself reasonably tech savvy, but I have been using Fedora 21 for the last couple of weeks as my only desktop OS without major incident (apart from the occasional annoying bug that pops up now and again to spoil my day at least once daily!). Usually a refresh of Gnome fixes that.
Overall, this release has seemed buggier at initial release than Fedora 20, but I still personally cannot imagine using anything else (I live in Africa and the delta-rpm feature for example is an absolute killer feature for me - bandwidth is a luxury. Yet at the same time I value having the 'latest and greatest' software at my disposal).
I would recommend it in a heartbeat to anyone who is willing to explore, but of course I would be responsible enough to warn them that 'some pain now and again is good for you!'
Overall, however, a great release once again!
10 • @8 Fedora 'nonproduct' switch at install? (by Pearson on 2014-12-22 14:27:02 GMT from United States)
What does the 'nonproduct' switch do?
11 • @7 Mint and ubuntu are non-US based distributions... It helps ! (by Frederic Bezies on 2014-12-22 14:39:23 GMT from France)
"Yes, but that doesn't stop Ubuntu or Mint from making them easy to install."
You have to know (at least for Ubuntu) how to install them.
"Again, this shouldn't be necessary. Look at what people like in the more successful distros and adopt it, or don't and continue wondering why more people don't use your distro."
Well... Fedora is in the top 10 distributions on Distrowatch. Even if these statistics are not really scientific, it is interesting to see that - on december 22, 2014 - that Fedora is :
Last 7 days : #3
Last 30 days : #2
Last 3 months : #5
Last 6 months : #5
Last 12 months : #4
And before, knowing that Fedora was born on 2003 :
2013 : #5
2012 : #4
2011 : #3
2010 : #2
2009 : #2
2008 : #4
2007 : #4
2006 : #3
2005 : #4
2004 : #2
So, always in the Top 5 to 10... Maybe less users, but at least, there is people looking to know more about it.
Besides this, Fedora is for people who know a little about their computers, not a switcher distribution like Ubuntu or Mint.
12 • MP3 playback (by Microlinux on 2014-12-22 14:58:16 GMT from France)
MP3 playback is handled by libmad (MPEG Audio Decoder), which is not encumbered by any patents. Only MP3 encoding is limited by patents. Slackware, for example, is shipping libmad in the default configuration, but if you want an encoder like LAME, you have to build it or get a third-party package.
13 • Fedora 21 details (by Scott Dowdle on 2014-12-22 14:59:34 GMT from United States)
rpmfusion *IS* available for Fedora 21. I've been using the rawhide/dev repo since before the Fedora 21 Alpha came out. rpmfusion.org's top level page is a little confusing because it doesn't list Fedora 21 but if you click on the "Enable RPM Fusion on your system" link, you'll see that Fedora 21 is indeed listed and available. Also, saying that Fedora does not ship with multimedia support is incorrect. They support non-patent-encumbered codecs like ogg, opus, webm, etc.
@3 - Fedora doesn't have a blind faith in FOSS... they just don't like getting Red Hat sued... and Red Hat gets sued a lot. Blind would also imply that they don't take an active roll in changing the situation and that simply isn't the case because Red Hat sponsors a number of multimedia related projects. Saying that Fedora could easily release spins outside of the US is also a complete non-starter.
Regarding Flash, it needs to go away. Yeah, Google Chrome browser includes it and every time there is a Flash update there is a Google Chrome update... but I recommend not installing Adobe's flash-plugin (11.x with security updates still being done). iOS has never supported Flash and Adroid dropped it some time ago. Websites really shouldn't provide content as Flash-only anymore and should adapt to HTML5-compatible output when Flash isn't available... ie Flash-only content "should not be happening in 2014". I primarily use Firefox but when I have a site stuck in time (that requires Flash), I fire up Google Chrome.
14 • Fedora (by Nate on 2014-12-22 15:16:07 GMT from United States)
To be fair with Fedora; I'm not entirely sure if it's meant to be a distro for end-users. "I'll admit, I prefer a mix of Xubuntu and CentOS." To me, Fedora always seemed more like a giant developer playground, constantly experimenting with the latest packages and development ideas. Yes, it's userbase is treated like second class citizens a lot, but overall, it's still a successful distribution.
15 • Mageia and GCompris (by Frodo on 2014-12-22 15:49:25 GMT from United States)
Great to hear Mageia is giving back. GCompris is a great project and a seedbed of future Linux users. Great time of year for Linux to support Linux.
16 • Fedora 21 (by rich on 2014-12-22 16:10:51 GMT from United States)
I've installed F21 after attempting to figure out why Manjaro kept crashing on me with KDE. (something to do with power management). . . . anyways. Fedora was a quick install but the features I was looking for couldn't be found until I installed 'EasyLife' which did a fine job putting Nvidia driver and multimedia codecs into my installation. If is wasn't for these I doubt I would care to use it. (I personally want to thank the EasyLife author for his good work on this. . . ) Gnome works put still requires a ton of work. The menu system is absurd and scrolling down 15 pages of icons on the screen for a particular program stinks. You think the people at Gnome would revamp this by categorizing the menu icon system by task or type of use or purpose? (i.e. all office software goes on one page of icons, all multimedia on another page, all utilities on another). Something like this. Overall though it all works well and I've installed a ton of apps. Some of the apps are up to speed but as usual many are not. The app icons for many look terrible and some don't have icons whatsoever.. . . . I'll think stay with F21 until Manjaro figures out issues I'm seeing with 'power management' crashes I've been experiencing with KDE.
Rich
17 • @49 (by jaws222 on 2014-12-22 17:23:24 GMT from United States)
"I have used fedora in the past, But now a total Debian user.
Cant imagine how fedora workstation became so irritating to use. I installed on my system and it was such a pain with bugs all around."
I also went away from Fedora after 16 and did not like 17-20 but I have to admit the F21 Mate is extremely good! I downloaded it Friday and have been using it the last few days and am very impressed. Out-of-the-box Compiz works well, system-config-samba and even adobe flash. it usually takes me days to get the networking but I was up and running after a few hours. Intel 120gb SSD and 8 gb's of RAM and this thing is smoking fast! Loving it so far.
18 • Fedora 21 (by Rick on 2014-12-22 17:28:27 GMT from )
I downloaded and tried to install Fedora 21 alongside Mint LMDE. I became frustrated with the confusing installer which is anything but user-friendly and intuitive. Based on some of the comments here, it is a shame that there are few USA based distros that have a Debian and Non-Ubuntu base, will run MATE and have all the system & user programs that I need on a daily basis. After using Ubuntu for several years and then being betrayed by Canonical, I have been using Linux Mint for the past 3 years. I am generally very satisfied with that distro as well as the collaborative direction of Clem & the Mint team and community. If only more distro developers would listen to their users!
19 • Fedora (by LorenzoC on 2014-12-22 17:45:59 GMT from Italy)
The thing that is killing Fedora is basically the fact that it is associated with Gnome 3, which makes no sense on a PC much like Windows 8. Once you see that Gnome 3 makes your work harder and then you are forced to use a "spin" of Fedora, the "spin" doesn't have anything special/different plus you need some post-install utility to get codecs, fonts, plugins and stuff without wasting too much time, then the conclusion is you move to another distro for good.
20 • @19 why gnome3 is a non-sense to you? (by matteoN on 2014-12-22 18:26:06 GMT from Italy)
hi,
just curiosity... I'm a software developer and debian user. I've started using gnome 3 since I've switched to my new laptop in February and I've installed debian testing (jessie).
To be honest I find it more productive then gnome 2, even if you go to abuse a lot the Super key...
21 • Fedora 21 (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2014-12-22 18:43:55 GMT from United States)
I'm somewhat locked into Fedora, since I maintain a Fedora remix for digital journalists (https://osjourno.com), but I do agree with many of the points in the review and the preceding comments.
The "New installer" - I forget when it came in - is vile and not at all intuitive for a naive user. Despite what the reviewer said, you *can* change partition sizes but it's a real bitch to do it. Ubuntu / Mint win the installer game.
As far as GNOME 3 is concerned, it's my preferred desktop. It's easy to remove and add applications from the start bar on the left, the 'Windows' key brings up a search bar where you can type an application name, and I like having a blank desktop. Most of the time I'm only working in one app and it's full-screen, so really, any desktop works.
Fedora's GNOME 3 isn't significantly different from openSUSE, Mageia, Ubuntu or Debian. The one thing in GNOME 3 I find utterly useless is GNOME Boxes. I invariably delete it and install the full virt-manager / guestfish GUI virtualization suite.
I switched to Fedora from openSUSE when 'Beefy Miracle' was in beta. It would be fairly easy for me to switch back - both have excellent support for re-branding, But honestly, for someone like me who's been using Linux as my main desktop for 15 years, they're all the same.
I've been running F21 on my workstation and laptop since the pre-alpha branch with few problems, most of them having to do with the remix / re-branding process. The bugs, even obscure ones, always got fixed promptly. So I'll stick with Fedora.
22 • Fedora (by LorenzoC on 2014-12-22 18:52:15 GMT from Italy)
See, the point is not what me or you or somebody else finds "productive", because there are people who use no DE at all and people who use mostly touch screens and every other possible configuration. The point is about the "logic" that drives Gnome 3 and how that logic adapts to most PC users (who BTW can be in any age and expertise range). Please note that I don't write "how the users adapt to that logic". That logic is obviously inspired by smartphones and tablets, with the "one application a time, full screen" and the "browse stuff in flipping containers/grids" plus "no menus". The mantra about "we listened developers so we avoid distractions" is some sort of excuse from the "one thing a time, full screen" that comes with smartphones and tablets, to the point that phone users don't even know what applications are opened and how many of them. Somebody thought that the smartphone and tablet "mode" could work on PCs too and that is not the case. The above review just pointed some obvious examples of it.
23 • MariaDB broken (by Jim on 2014-12-22 19:12:02 GMT from United States)
I put F21 on my desktop and downloaded MariaDB from the repos and just like in F20 the installer does not pause to allow you to set a root password to allow you to use the database. This of course renders it worthless. I posted this in the forums and despite help from many people, I couldn't make it work. I had hopes this would get fixed in 21.
24 • Pathway to Arch (by wrkerr on 2014-12-22 19:39:50 GMT from United States)
I started on Ubuntu in 2005. I switched to Linux Mint as my primary around 2012 when I didn't like the choices Canonical was making for Ubuntu. Fedora drew me in around 2013 because of the faster updates, mostly vanilla packages, and I really appreciate how much their developers contribute upstream, rather than primarily working to benefit their own distribution. Fedora's community seems to embody the open source paradigm well.
In early 2014 though, I decided to give Arch Linux a spin, and I loved it right away. Always up to date, no need to reinstall periodically, almost all packages are completely vanilla, clear and understandable internals, fantastic documentation. There's even a very user-friendly installer at www.evolutionlinux.com if you don't have time or patience for the initial install.
I really do wish the Fedora project the best, and I'll continue to check in periodically, but I don't think I'll be leaving Arch linux any time soon.
25 • Gnome lock screen (by AnklefaceWroughtlandmire on 2014-12-22 19:53:48 GMT from Ecuador)
I also hate that Gnome lock screen. What you're seeing is actually called the "screen shield". You can actually dismiss it with any key type, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. But the Gnome devs don't care if it's annoying or not, it's their baby.
26 • Fedora (by Jason on 2014-12-22 19:54:15 GMT from United States)
I've been a user of *nix for last 6 yrs and decided to try Fedora for the first time with the 21 release. I also was a bit confused at the installer -- and was very disappointed at the lack of built in drivers, multimedia codecs, and general desktop software. It is shocking to me to see Fedora rated so high on distrowatch, there are far better distributions further down on the list. "rich's" advice above about "EasyLife" is appreciated -- I might give that a shot in the future. For now, I am sticking with Manjaro KDE, which has automatic hardware detection and drivers, easy to switch kernels, and my favorite package management (pacman/yaourt).
27 • F21 Chrome (by Toran on 2014-12-22 21:49:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Failed to install chrome due to missing library. Failed to install the library. Went back to Ubuntu. need Chrome for Facebook. games (flash)
28 • YUM is a mess (by Paraquat on 2014-12-22 22:54:50 GMT from Taiwan)
The comment by #9 above (which is pro-Fedora) inadvertently demonstrates one of Fedora's biggest annoyances: YUM.
That poster said was trying to explain how you can get multimedia support on Fedora by adding the rpmfusion repositories. As he pointed out, you need to do this:
yum -y localinstall --nogpgcheck http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm
Even an experienced Fedora geek would have a difficult time remembering that, or even typing it. And this complexity is fairly typical of YUM, which I find to be slow and clumsy compared to competing package managers such as Debian's APT, Slackware's TGZ or FreeBSD's PKG. Even Fedora seems to realize this (after how many years?) and will probably abandon YUM for DNF in Fedora 22, though that is not yet set in concrete. It's doubly sad because there was an enthusiastic but unofficial APT4RPM movement some years ago, but it died due to lack of support from Red Hat.
This seems to be a recurring theme for Red Hat - they have a bias against "not invented here." So they create new technology, for better or worse. That does make their distro "stand out" from the others, and shows just how "innovative" they can be. Unfortunately, it also means they invent and stubbornly stick with a technology that creates more problems than it solves (do I need to mention their installer?). They are also currently doing this with something I've decided not to mention by name but starts with an "s" and ends with a "d," though I think I'd better shut up at this point because I don't want to go off-topic.
Anyway, I've tried just about every Fedora since it's first release, and though it always looks nice, it always seems to annoy me enough that I keep it no more than a few days. This time, once again, that has been my experience. Too bad.
Currently loving Salix and PCLinuxOS,
- Paraquat
29 • MP3 decoding and Fedora (by Ralph on 2014-12-23 00:48:00 GMT from Canada)
If, as #12 says, mp3 decoding is unencumbered by patents (via libmad) why wouldn't Fedora include it out-of-the-box?
30 • I do actually like it! (by Max on 2014-12-23 01:11:40 GMT from Germany)
I am impressed that so many of you have made such bad experiences with fedora. If you have always tried the workstation favour I might be with you in terms of usability, but there are spins and I would recommend anybody who haven't tried it to give the xfce spin a try. That is my personal preference and advise. I do not like gnome3 either, but I do not believe that having it as default desktop says anything about fedora as whole.
I consider myself a long term power user (and developer) and I always found most packages well pre configured. The list of available and steadily updated binary packages is very long and inclusive (if using rpmfusion, of cause), so that there is no need to include many 3rd party repos. In my experience fedora does have very good hardware support, even compared to ubuntu, because red hat is working together with companies (e.g. intel), so that in contrast intel delivers rpm packages for their products (take the xeon phi as one example). Worth mentioning even so it might not be of interest for the average user is, that fedora comes with selinux pre installed and that (even as power user) can teach you a lot, I believe. This is because selinux forces you to rethink your understanding of user groups and 'what belongs where' in the file system. In general I consider fedoras concept of the file system logical consistent, which has always been a debate, but somehow made it way in other distributions as well: Take these conf.d-folders as an example, which you might know from /etc/udev/rules.d/. Fedora is consequently trying to move everything towards using this logic, which I consider to be more reliable that other approaches.
What I dislike about fedora:
- The 'new' installer. There has been one (let me lie) till fedora 16 or so, which I preferred.
- That outdated packages force you to do distribution updates and that automatic distribution updates have never worked for me
- That you have to reinstall your system twice a year (because of that^). On the positive side: This teaches you relatively quickly how to use a dedicated partition for your /home/ folder
31 • @28: Enabling the RPM Fusion repository is easy (by eco2geek on 2014-12-23 01:49:06 GMT from United States)
To be fair to Fedora, all you have to do to enable the RPM Fusion repository is to go to its web site...
http://rpmfusion.org/RPM%20Fusion
...then click the link "Enable RPM Fusion on your system" under "users", and then follow the "Graphical Setup via Firefox web browser" instructions for your version of Fedora. Fedora 21 is listed there. That's about as easy as you can get, clicking on a web link, with no command line involved.
Even if you wanted to use the command line, the commands are listed there, on the same web page. How hard is copying and pasting into a terminal?
32 • @31 Terminals and Command line (by greycoat on 2014-12-23 02:26:30 GMT from United States)
"How hard is copying and pasting into a terminal?"
I sprained my finger once to that... ;)
Gnome 3 is dumbing down the desktop. Nautilus was once "descent", but now worthless to me and but a aggravating nuisance. I removed the Gnome desktop off Fedora and added Cinnamon. Also Mate and Xfce. Those three are far better usability wise. Sadly the Windows programmers, i.e. I'm a Windows 7 user also, have taken the same dumb-down less usability approach in Windows 8 and Windows 10 (Technical Preview 64) as the Gnome 3 programmers/developers. As a Windows user predominately, I hate the direction Windows is going. I didn't even buy Windows 7 until just a couple weeks before the release of 8. Tried then the 8 Technical Preivew and said no way not for the desktop. I've tried and played around with around 81 Linux and BSD distros and Chakra is one that is unique is separating out GTK programs from KDE programs. If you want GTK programs you have to add a repository and I like that, i.e. the option to keep a pure KDE desktop if you want. Mint has come a long way and I hope the keep LMDE alive. Never know when a company might go belly up and I hope they never do. I enjoy their products, i.e., various Ubuntu blends also.
33 • Fedora and DeltaRPM's - Nice (by greycoat on 2014-12-23 02:49:28 GMT from United States)
I forgot to add and hopefully without typos this time, that I do love Fedora's deltaRPMs, i.e. you only download the portions of a package that has changed and not the entire package. I wish deb files were deltadebs...
34 • arch - manjaro (by archy on 2014-12-23 03:48:40 GMT from United States)
I have used SUSE first, then moved to Debian but got irritated with there self serving bs about what should be in the repos, and tried kubuntu which I stuck to for years but swapped out to gnome out of desperation to avoid the catastrophe that I view as kde4 and was surprised how much I liked it, with a little tweaking anyway. Then canonical started making the same mistakes and told everyone what they are going to like and ignore everything except what they want to hear. I have recently swapped over to manjaro testing repo and love it. What is the point of change simply for the sake of change.
35 • Fedora stinks (by scooter on 2014-12-23 04:19:22 GMT from United States)
Fedora stinks. I can't imagine a "typical desktop user" being satisfied with the default fresh install of Fedora. You need to add a number of packages/repos to make it usable. One of the great things about linux is the variety of distributions -- which allow you to install a flavor of OS that quickly fits your needs. Hat-tip to the Manjaro team which has done a great job with their product.
36 • Fedora (by Hector Zelaya on 2014-12-23 05:49:40 GMT from El Salvador)
The only thing I wish to have in fedora are more packages in official repos. To me it is annoying having to add aditional repos for stuff like nvidia drivers, codecs, dropbox, mupen64plus, etc.
My experience with this distro has been better in the kde spin than default flavor though right now I'm on workstation and testing server on another machine.
Fedora is one of my 4 favorite distros. The others one are elementary OS, OpenSUSE and Arch Linux.
37 • Fedora 21 (by Derek on 2014-12-23 06:11:42 GMT from India)
I've been using Fedora for a long time, switched from 20 to 21 during the beta, and I've faced less crashes compared to some of my friends using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS(Let's face it, different computer systems and different people can result in different behaviour).
There are many things that work really well in Fedora(tried on Ubuntu too):
- Plugin my Canon MFP via USB, pop, configured. Simple scanner can scan too. Did the same thing with Ubuntu and had to manually add it. Simple scanner just wouldn't work.
- Getting the same functionality of the printer via WiFi worked too.
- rpm is quite simple -- After the Fedora 21 release, I wanted the freshly release darktable, rawtherapee, libgphoto2/gphoto2, etc. building packages is simple, even if I have to write my own spec files.
About the lock screen - I never really swipe it - I blindly start typing in my password and unlock it.
People focus way too much on how much the desktop can be configured. I still have mine with the default wallpaper -- I do prefer using the functionality provided by the apps than trying to decorate my desktop.
While there is scope to improve Fedora -- the installer, the gui package manager, etc, I think that the Fedora devs are doing a fine job.
38 • Fedora, Red Hat Doesn't Care About Desktops. Shame. (by JD on 2014-12-23 06:36:12 GMT from )
First off, I am not trying to be mean or upsetting. I admire Red Hat a lot. they do great work and have a awesome enterprise server workstation distro. love it.
However it feels like they are holding Fedora back and making it boring at times. Even a leader at Red Hat has stated something like... "The Desktop is becoming irrelevant and everyone is gonna use smartphones and tablets" I disagree with this, they should have not made that comment. They don't appear to try to make a distro for desktop users. thus this is why you may be disappointed using it as one. That said you can go and install all sorts of packages from RPMFusion and make it pretty nice but the release cycles are short , there is no LTS. It feels like fedora could be more if Red Hat would let it and if they cared about the desktop. Just my thoughts. I really wish they did a Fedora desktop LTS.
39 • Looks like rain. Red Hat must be controlling the weather again. (by Milo on 2014-12-23 13:54:10 GMT from Poland)
I don't agree with the entirety of the Fedora Project's stance on what are deemed "forbidden items", nor do I believe the Fedora Project is without relatively safe alternative solutions which could allow it to provide some of these by some means (though I have two left peg legs when it comes to dancing the legal tango); I do believe a lot of the reasoning is more ideological than it is legal, and is a part of Fedora Project culture. There is a cost to any approach that is taken, whether purist or pragmatic. I also don't see the endgame for desktops and laptops given GNOME 3's direction, although, in my opinion, GNOME 3 is finally a release-quality product. GNOME 3.14 is what GNOME 3.0 should have been. But Xfce, MATE, Cinnamon, KDE and LXDE all seem like more sensible choices for a workstation. GNOME 3 as a desktop environment centerpiece doesn't put Fedora's best foot forward; perhaps by the time GNOME 3.28 arrives that will no longer be the case. GNOME 3 may be well-suited for tablets, although KDE has that covered as well. I do think GNOME 3 is more suited to a workstation than the Sugar desktop environment, but that was never at issue.
There are several third-party repositories which provide access to encumbered software for Fedora. Furthermore, there are tools such as PostInstallerF, Fedy, easyLife, Autoten, and Local Package Factory which simplify adding encumbered software. There are also several remixes which include some encumbered software out of the box, the most popular of which is probably Korora, which also includes its own driver management utility. The existence of these Fedora-based tools and remixes suggests that there is demand by some for a different approach, and that the Fedora Project isn't meeting it, but the Fedora Project is free to determine its own identity and path. I hope that aligns with what is of greatest service to its users at large.
Fedora is targeted at developers; that's nothing particularly new, now it's just explicit. Unless it makes for an incredibly compelling development environment, I personally think this approach is a road to obscurity, as developers tend to follow user base migrations, not the other way around. Also, some of today's general-purpose users will be tomorrow's developers or system administrators (not to mention that the developers and system administrators of today are general-purpose users when they don't have their work hats on), and I think Ubuntu's initial focus on general users has in part helped it make gains in multiple markets, as familiarity travels; I think some of Red Hat's success is owed to a time when general users were more sought after by Red Hat. With Red Hat Linux no more, and Fedora more focused on being a for developers, by developers distribution, not as many people outside that circle will be exposed to Fedora/Red Hat. The value of the general user Linux desktop to a company like Red Hat or Canonical isn't direct profitability, but value as exposure and relationship building, i.e. mindshare.
The above being said, Fedora makes for a great foundation for the type of person who is willing to build upon it. For those wanting more bells and whistles configured out of the box, or those who have a pathological aversion to systemd, PulseAudio, etc, there are other solid Linux distributions to choose from which cater to those desires.
RPM Fusion can be added via a browser, and there are instructions listed at RPM Fusion, "Enable RPM Fusion on your system". The command line setup is also listed on that page, so no memorisation is required, although apart from the rpm URLs, the Yum command isn't much to remember. It's hardly worse than apt-get install. The localinstall command is only maintained in Yum for legacy reasons, and isn't necessary; use the install command instead. DNF drops the localinstall command altogether. RPM Fusion can be added without the nogpgcheck flag as well. If you're inclined to use GNOME Software, know that once RPM Fusion has been added, RPM Fusion applications won't show up in GNOME Software at this time, though the RPM Fusion devs are working on it. This does not affect Apper or yumex. Google Chrome can also be installed on Fedora.
Not sure if apt4rpm is being conflated with APT-RPM, but regardless, though it makes for a great scapegoat, Red Hat is not responsible for the APT-RPM state of affairs (if anything, Conectiva's fortunes determined this), anymore than Red Hat is responsible for the pace of Xfce development beyond arguments involving the butterfly effect, in which case everyone would be responsible, not just Red Hat personnel. Red Hat was already committed to Yum replacing up2date when APT-RPM was discontinued in favor of pursuing Smart Package Manager by the then developer of APT-RPM, an employee of Conectiva who joined Canonical shortly after Mandrakesoft worked the antithesis of the Midas touch in its purchase of Conectiva. Around a year later it was a Red Hat employee and RPM developer who then sought to salvage the abandoned project. In the subsequent nearly nine years since then, anyone could have forked APT-RPM if they were unhappy that it entered into an eventual stasis. As for Yellowdog Updater, Modified (Yum), derived from Yellow Dog Update Program (Yup) of Yellow Dog Linux origin, the original authors of Yum were both at Duke University at the time of its creation; one of them became a Red Hat employee thereafter. Regarding "starts with an 's' and ends with a 'd'", of the two Germans credited as being the initial developers, one of them was with Novell at the time, and then was later hired by Red Hat.
Red Hat could have thrown its weight behind APT-RPM, the same could be said for thousands of projects, but Red Hat doesn't have an obligation to do so just because a project exists, anymore than DistroWatch has an obligation to donate to every open-source project in existence. Judgment calls are made and priorities are ordered. And Red Hat does contribute substantially to many projects, from the kernel on down, work that benefits users of all distributions. That some don't like some of those contributions shouldn't nullify them all. It's a no-win proposition. If Red Hat does get involved, it's to blame for anything remotely unpopular, never mind that most major projects have developers from multiple companies as well as independent developers from around the world. That independent developers and developers from other companies remain involved in these projects must only be because Red Hat has chained them to their computers? If Red Hat doesn't get involved, it's to blame for failing to support a project.
PS #33, you might want to take a look at debdelta. The home page might be unavailable at the moment, but the project is still up and running.
40 • Fedora 21 (by Buntunub on 2014-12-23 15:38:05 GMT from United States)
There should be no surprises for anyone with F21. It is what Fedora has always been - a test bed for experimental technologies built on a developer (definitely NOT general user) friendly platform. Fedora has never been user oriented and never will be. They simply do not care what any of you have to say, and that includes you Jessie. They blaze the trail that they always have on their own. Anyone who uses that Distro should go into it knowing this and with no false assumptions about what the "experience" will be like.
I kind of found it funny that Jessie commiserated with the Fedora lead about their lack of relevance because, well, nothing could be further from the truth! Fedora is for testing the latest and greatest technologies, and it has always been very good at doing that. It provides a somewhat stable base for developers who are interested in adopting/working on said new technologies to further innovate/refine them. In short, they throw a plethora of new shiny toys out on the dartboard to see what sticks. The winners often then go in to the next Red Hat release. IMO, Fedora should never be used as a real workstation or server unless you have paid support staff to refine it, and in this case, I can see some advantages to adopting some of the newer technologies that might "fit" better into your business model.
41 • Fedora and Mint compared (again) (by Jordan on 2014-12-23 15:50:34 GMT from United States)
Well Mint wins and the reasons are being posted here in the comments area. There's just something about Fedora that puts me off. Mint on the other hand draws me into the distro and productivity ensues.
It's subtle, but it's there.
42 • f21 easy codecs and such.. (by wintermute on 2014-12-23 19:35:31 GMT from Hungary)
although it simply _is not_ designed to be "mint", if one needs proprietary stuff without much hassle, look for fedy (previously known as fedora tools) for easy drivers, codecs, repos, software, etc goodness..
terrible review btw.. '%D
merry christmas all..
43 • So at Fedora they are telling lies (by LorenzoC on 2014-12-23 20:08:50 GMT from Italy)
About comment #40 and alike.
IF Fedora is just a test bed for experimental technologies then Fedora should take down their own site since it is built upon a pile of lies.
Besides the general communication like:
"Fedora Workstation is a reliable, user-friendly, and powerful operating system for your laptop or desktop computer. It supports a wide range of developers, from hobbyists and students to professionals in corporate environments."
In the "Mission" chapter you find:
" Usser base (also known as target audience)
Among our other goals, we strive to create a distribution that is not only open to contribution but also serves the needs of a wide audience of users. By meeting the common needs of a wide audience, Fedora encourages the spread of free software, understanding of its methodologies, and participation in its processes. "
So the Workstation is not user-friendly because Gnome 3 is not designed for PCs and you must work a week to add all the things that are missing from the default installation. You cannot use Fedora in a corporate environment and even Redhat recognizes that, Fedora doesn't care of their users either to gain the "wide audience" and so on.
I guess there is something VERY wrong around Fedora, in a way or another.
44 • Thank you #39 Milo (by Greycoat on 2014-12-23 23:49:06 GMT from United States)
@39 I didn't realize "DebDeltas" or "DeltaDebs", as I called it, even existed. Thank you I'll check it out. Just think of all the bandwith (and energy/money saved) if you didn't have to download the same fonts and wallpaper after an upgrade.
If I may be permitted to rant a bit more about Gnome 3, I really get annoyed with windows that can't be resized. It's a particularly annoying when installing in Virtualbox or Vmware player where you have to guess where the "OK" button is clicking enter for its offscreen and can't move the window any turther to see it. I find some windows in Windows 10 Technical Preview are the same way. They can only be resized to a limited resize. Windows 10, unlike 7, menu is annoying being more like Gnome menus than Windows 7 where you can't easily edit, copy and paste, create new folder categories in the menu. Software advancement is going backwards not forward these days where the developers/programmers are now like the car manufacturer who replaces the fine leather seats of a luxury car with wooden benches, hide the controls to adjust the wooden benches, and tell us it's better.
It is a myth and outright lie that the desktop is being replaced. It is a contrived attempt to create and change public opinion than accurately report it. The desktop is not dead nor will it be regardless what the charlatans and opinion manipulators try to tell us.
45 • Fedora 21 & Gnome 3? You're kidding! (by Ben Myers on 2014-12-24 04:19:43 GMT from United States)
Just ran Fedora 21 Live on a test computer. Navigation? You want to call it that with Gnome 3? Sorry, but clicking Activities at the top of the screen is not my idea of finding programs to run. Gimme Cinnamon, Mate, LXDE or just about any other desktop.
Yet another impediment, shared by Fedora with other distros, is this senseless holy war with Broadcom over driver source code. So Broadcom does not provide source code, and one can't simply boot up and use a Broadcom wifi card without standing on ones head! So I'll say it once again. If someone REALLY wanted to promote use of a distro, it would be a public relations coup to include the Broadcom wifi driver(s). Then people could actually use the distro even!
Well, now it is time to wipe Fedora off of my magic boots everything flash stick and try another distro. Bye, bye to Fedora until the next release.
46 • Broadcom (by Reuben on 2014-12-24 11:49:22 GMT from United States)
If Broadcom allowed the free redistribution of their firmware, I'm sure most distributions would be glad to include it. (Free as in beer, I think Fedora includes a few bits of propriatary firmware with it's kernel.) Anyways, I use a netbook with a broadcom chipset. It's a matter of connecting with ethernet, and a copying and pasting a few commands. Standing on one's head can't hurt either.
47 • The downward decent of Fedora (by JonLinkletter on 2014-12-24 13:43:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
I only installed and used Fedora once. It was Fedora 4. Must have been ten years ago. It was an awkward distro back then and it sounds little has improved. Can't say I see the appeal. Besides, i've never felt that rpm based distros have the same solidness and versatility as deb based ones. Just my cents worth :)
48 • Fedora (by MarkThomas on 2014-12-24 14:49:40 GMT from Nicaragua)
I First tried Fedora some years back and it seemed quite good much better than Ubuntu. Then a few years on i tried it on a Lappy and had nothing but problems...it wouldnt recognise i had a touchpad. to start with..then it ran like a horse in deep mud, which was apparently due to my AMD graphic.which the forum guys seemed to frown apon and really didnt help me out much.. ...But i later tried Fuduntu which worked much better...but that was a while ago and i have just tried the latest Fedora 21.the installer didn't inspire me at all...and this being my first experience with Gnome 3 was a real shock..Horrendous if this is the future for desktops im hope my computer days are soon over....then we still have this issues withAMD drivers, broadcom and codecs etc (the free drivers dont like my Laptops it seems .) Fedora21 for me is just too much work to get something usable.. seems ill stick with Calculate, Manjaro, and Slackel...
49 • Fedora 21 (by Ron March on 2014-12-24 15:21:57 GMT from United States)
I do not understand the big deal about Fedora and Gnome. Just do not download the Gnome iso. I use KDE mostly and have also installed Mate. Both work fine. As for the extras like flash, codecs etc just install easylife for Fedora and it will install all the extra repos you need and install flash etc.
As far as 21 goes, I find it a vast improvement over earlier versions and the installer is even easier to use. In the beginning the new installer was a big mystery to me and I could never figure out how I installed the iso alongside of other OS's.
On a different note, I finally got the iso to install in secure boot by using Fedora's usb creator. Not only that it installed right alongside of Win 8.1 which I use for work sometimes when needed and actually shared the boot automatically.
I am have installed Chromium with no problems and am able to use Kindle and Netflix among other stuff on Chromium.
I say this is the best version yet from Fedora. In the past I have been discouraged with Fedora and now it is my main distro. I love it. I can see good things in the future from Fedora and this is good.
If you are looking for an easy out of the box no need for additional work needed experience then by all means get Mint or some other Ubuntu derivative. This is what makes Linux great. Diversity. Personally I like the challenge of changing things around a bit to my liking including eye candy.
I am not by any means a power user and have had to dig around to change things to my liking. When I finally get it right then it really pleases me. Right now I have it on all three of my laptops and I am happy. It even works great on my touchscreen laptop.
50 • Fedora User Base (by Buntunub on 2014-12-24 16:32:56 GMT from United States)
Lorenzo -
"IF Fedora is just a test bed for experimental technologies then Fedora should take down their own site since it is built upon a pile of lies.
Besides the general communication like:
"Fedora Workstation is a reliable, user-friendly, and powerful operating system for your laptop or desktop computer. It supports a wide range of developers, from hobbyists and students to professionals in corporate environments."
In the "Mission" chapter you find:
" Usser base (also known as target audience)"
You misunderstand what Fedora is about, and then you go on to answer/clarify exactly what I said. Re-read your own quotes.
Fedora Workstation is a reliable, user-friendly, and powerful operating system for your laptop or desktop computer. It supports a wide range of DEVELOPERS, from hobbyists and students to professionals in corporate environments."
How is that different than what I said above? You found on Fedoras website where they clearly state that the workstation distro is for DEVELOPERS only. Then later you found another quote where they discuss their user base. Well.. Their user base is by and strictly for only DEVELOPERS! Developers are users too you know. They are users that have special needs which Fedora caters to. They do not want you as a user, as in non-developer, and they do not care what anyone who is not a developer has to say.. about anything really. That is because your opinions are near worthless unless you can write the code to change things yourself.
Now, from the perspective of a developer, Fedora 21 is fantastic!
51 • Fedora 21 (by Bushpilot on 2014-12-24 17:31:54 GMT from Canada)
Being a novice Linux user, I must say that fedora 21 is an excellent distro. I have been running Fedora 20, Debian 7 and 8 along with Fedora 21. All desktops are Xfce and all have proven to be stable and quick for my daily use. Fedora has been a more difficult distro for me personally to install and setup as it requires more computer learning than Debian. Even Debian is far more difficult to setup than a Ubuntu distro but that does not make them inferior. It seems to me that Fedora is there for those who make the effort to suffer the learning curve required to master it. There is great satisfaction from getting a distro to work as you would like it to. I am looking forward to tackling the complexities that any good distro presents to users who simply enjoy computer learning. Cheers for all of these great distro's.
Merry Christmas.
52 • XMAS (by Robert Coulson on 2014-12-24 18:21:26 GMT from Canada)
Have a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year...Keep up the great work you have been doing with "Distrowatch"..I look there every day..Great site..Thank you.
Robert
53 • 20 • @19 why gnome3 is a non-sense to you? (by matteoN on 2014-12-22 18:26:06 GM (by Ron on 2014-12-24 19:32:35 GMT from United States)
"just curiosity... I'm a software developer and debian user. I've started using gnome 3 since I've switched to my new laptop in February and I've installed debian testing (jessie).
To be honest I find it more productive then gnome 2, even if you go to abuse a lot the Super key..."
For me, I gave it a try and found Gnome3 most upsetting. Actually my blood pressure increased, my hair loss (from pulling) became alarming, and my internet became much busier as I reloaded another OS with XFCE.
54 • Fedora, Gnome 3 and Fedora 21 Alternatives (by Ben Myers on 2014-12-24 20:36:20 GMT from United States)
Gnome 3 has taken a lot of heat in all the commentary thus far about Fedora 21. Fedora does itself no favors by promoting Gnome 3 as its most favored desktop, then burying all the Fedora spins elsewhere on its web site. In other words, you have to dig and prod elsewhere the Fedora website to find these other spins. Just not user-friendly, like the Fedora 21-Gnome 3 combo.
55 • Gnome 3 up-swipe to unlock screen (by vw72 on 2014-12-25 15:59:35 GMT from United States)
If you are on a non-touch screen computer, instead of trying the up-swipe gesture on a trackpad or with a mouse, you can simply hit the ESC key to unlock the screen. Likewise, the "windows" key opens the activities screen.
56 • Gnome3 (by linuxista on 2014-12-25 19:52:52 GMT from United States)
I've used every desktop, and ultimately I always come back to Gnome3. Whenever I use Cinnamon, I find I'm always trying to make it look and work like Gnome3. KDE4 has gotten a lot better, but I still find it gets in the way more, and I tend to avoid it. I'll try again with Plasma5. I'm not trying to convince anyone that "Gnome3 is the best," but I see a lot of negative comments about it. For some it's great, and has been very usable and bug-free all the way back to Gnome 3.0 (except for very limited configurability). Unlike KDE 4.0-4.6, however, Gnome3 was basically crash free. Different strokes for different folks. For me Gnome3 is the best, followed by i3 and Openbox. Everything else I can easily do without.
57 • Fedora and My user experience (by tuxtest on 2014-12-26 18:14:52 GMT from Canada)
I use Linux exclusively since 2005 ... 10 years now ! I'm getting old ... hahaha
My first 2 system were pcbsd 1.5 and Mandriva version ?. I finally stay on Mandriva one year as a novice she was perfect. Then I started to test all the linux distro. Around 2008 I opted for the rolling release distro because I liked the philosophy behind. Except that in many cases I quickly became disillusioned. Because they all ended up being broken within one year (Sabayon, Arch, Siduction etc ...) Sometimes the cause was xorg in other time it's other things so at the end why use a rolling release that you should reinstall every 6 months.
I have often tested Fedora 10,11.12 etc.. but I never hooked. The new installer is totally missed. But who's behind this genuis idea ? A major design/concept error. As I read somewhere on the web, the guy had to be on antidepressants. For my part, Fedora is and remains Fedora distro is just a test bed for experimental technologies and the message on the site should be the one. I agree with @43 that the information on the website doesn't represent reality. Korora may be an excellent alternative out of the box if you want use a Fedora base without taking your head or having to repeat the installation at 6 months.
To the question of Desktop choice on Fedora Gnome 3 for me, it's a useless debate. If you don't like Gnome 3, my god just use something else.
I use PCLinuxOS 64bit since is first release in April 2013 almost 2 years at home and my work office. I went from kernel 3.4 to 3.18.1, KDE 4.10 to 4.14.3 without any worries.
On my old laptop I turn the aircraft supersonic SalixOpenbox 14 and now 14.1 without any worries too.
Happy new years all ! I hope 2015 Linux became on Desktop/Laptop market with a real action by big sellers as Dell, HP,Lenovo,Acer etc..
58 • OS (by sobo on 2014-12-27 14:30:58 GMT from Canada)
I'm trying to develop a DAW on an almost state-of-the-art Desktop PC.
This PC is primarily used for surfing, file development and recording.
I don't need any language except English.
I don't need any system administration software or 'groups'.
I do need graphical capability - a GUI.
I also need up-to-date drivers for a variety of hardware.
Is there a LINUX for me - without all the bloatware?
59 • @58 - DAW (by Rev_Don on 2014-12-27 17:27:09 GMT from United States)
Define Bloatware?
As far as system administration software, you aren't going to find any OS that doesn't have at least some included. That's all part of having a modern OS with a GUI. It's required to be able to even have a GUI. Without it how will you configure your network to get online, install and uninstall software, and a myriad of other necessary (and often times day to day) tasks.
Depending on your skill set, Arch is probably the closest you will come to what you describe. You install what you need, and only what you need (along with what is required to actually run what you need of course). The glitch is that you either need to be fairly Linux and computer literate to be able to install and configure Arch or are willing to put in a considerable amount of time learning how to do so.
If that isn't a viable option, then a 14.04 LTS release of Xubuntu or Lubuntu would would be a good choice (at least IMHO). They come with less preloaded software, have a more basic GUI, and about as up to date driver support as anything other than Arch in an easier to install and configure package. They also tend to be quite stable overall. Nothing against Kubuntu, Ubuntu Gnome, Ubuntu Mate, or even straight Ubuntu, it's just that they tend to have what some might call more bloat than Xubuntu or Lubuntu.
60 • Distro search (by MZ on 2014-12-27 17:57:14 GMT from )
@58
There is also always the search function here at Distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/search.php
Just plug in your parameters & search to your hearts content. It is easy to isolate distro options by things like desktop & intended function. In your case I would go with 'Multimedia' for the distro type & a light weight desktop like LXDE, Enlightenment, or perhaps even Openbox. When I plug those into the search I come up with things like Musix & ArtistX. Most distros with those sorts of desktops try to reduce the bloat & should fly on modern hardware. I'm assuming you meant digital audio wokstation as per acronymfinder.com. If not adjust the parameters & run a different search. There may not be a perfect Distro, but there should be one that is fairly close to what you want.
61 • ZFS expansion (by Anthony on 2014-12-27 18:40:16 GMT from New Zealand)
I hate to say this but this is the normal way to expand the storage pool. The real problem is google has started caching all the questions instead of the actual answers.
RTFM perhaps applies
Normally you will have some sort of mirror raid to extend the drive sizes in a physical machine.
You can assign full drive, Partition slices, Loopback files to ZFS.
62 • Re: 3 • Fedora and multimedia support (by far2fish on 2014-12-22 11:50:32 GMT fr (by Finalzone on 2014-12-27 20:25:26 GMT from Canada)
"I have been using Fedora since the start of the project a little over 10 years ago. For the past year it has been my only desktop OS. I fully agree with Jesse that Fedora is not something I would recommend to family and friends. But that can easily be said about Debian and openSUSE too. They are all medium level Linux distributions."
I can challenge the claim as Fedora can be used by family once setting right.
"Personally I believe Fedora's major issue is their blind faith in FOSS. The lack of media codec availability during install makes it more difficult for novice users. "
Remember Fedora Project being a US distributions has to abide to patent laws and, due to its FOSS stance, cannot include closed and patented software. Users can enable RPM Fusion during installation and media software will automatically detect and attempt to install missing codecs . Educating users should be more important than trying to hide the reality of software patent laws especially in US which also applied to some countries.
"I know Ubuntu and Mint are less restrictive with multimedia support since they originates from Isle of Man and Ireland, but Fedora could easily also have spins available for downloads in Europe with multimedia support to circumvent this."
Fedora Project cannot afford breaking US Software Patents laws. The matter is more complex than you think and you should consult US lawyers. Both Ubuntu and Mint would have to abide to laws of countries they try to distributes.
63 • rpm has no interactive scripting (by Scott Dowdle on 2014-12-27 21:31:13 GMT from United States)
@23 - rpm has a rule where you can't interrupt the installer and assume there is a human there to answer questions. Installs must be automatable. As a result, no there isn't a pause to ask the user for a mariadb root user password. How does one set it? In the past they often spit out the very instructions to do so to standard output during package install... but how you do it is how mysql says in their manuals. I'd paste a URL here but I think that is discouraged in comments. Anyway, just do a search engine search for "Securing the Initial MySQL Accounts site:mysql.com" and it comes right up. It's also pretty handy because it helps one understand how it is setup and how one might go about resetting the password if desired.
64 • @63 (by Adam Williamson on 2014-12-27 21:39:17 GMT from Canada)
AFAIK rpm doesn't have such a rule, but RPM-based distros tend to adopt it as a policy. I don't believe there's any 'rule' which would prevent you putting an interactive command in %post, but users of RPM distros would probably not expect it to happen.
65 • @62 FOSS stance (by Terence on 2014-12-28 15:16:51 GMT from United States)
Their stance actually does allow "closed and patented" software in the install. For example, if I install Debian, I have no WiFi on a default install. But if I install Fedora, WiFi is functioning from the start. So clearly, they are including blobs for my wireless card. The difference is that codecs are actively protected by its creators whereas the wireless makers either could care less or they distribute under some GPL like code allowing copying.
66 • @62 (by Adam Williamson on 2014-12-28 22:31:15 GMT from Canada)
No, that's not it. Please, please stop conflating "closed" and "patented". They are entirely different things. "Open source" and "closed source" refer to the copyright license on the code. Both "open" and "closed" source code can be covered by patents - there's an overlap in the sense that patent law can make it difficult to exercise your right to redistribute open source software that is patent encumbered, but its author is still *trying* to make it open source.
Loadable firmware blobs are rarely (if ever) covered by patents. The difference between Fedora and Debian here is that Debian goes with the FSF interpretation that a distribution attempting to respect free software principles must not include non-free firmware blobs. Fedora decided against that interpretation, siding with the argument that applying software freedom restrictions to firmware blobs is going too far and somewhat odd given that the common alternative is just to bake the non-free firmware into the device, which gives you even *less* freedom to modify it (at least with externally loaded firmware, you have the opportunity to replace it with a reimplemented free one).
The way this is technically implemented is that Fedora's ban on non-F/OSS code does not cover code which is not to be executed on the host system: "The files are non-executable within the Fedora OS context" - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main#Binary_Firmware
Once again, this is not to do with patents. Multimedia codecs usually *are* about patents, because there are perfectly F/OSS implementations of most codecs, but they are generally held to be covered by software patents, and so distributions that are vulnerable to lawsuits under the relevant patents don't include them.
67 • @62 (by Finalzone on 2014-12-28 22:31:46 GMT from Canada)
The stance only applied on firmware, programs that directly run hardware like wireless card in this instance. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main#Binary_Firmware
68 • Trying on Fedora 21 (by Oleg on 2014-12-29 01:27:01 GMT from United States)
Absolutely agree with a reviewer (Jesse Smith). From Fedora 16 to 20 I was loyal Fedora follower with zero doubts, but now switch back to Mint for my experimental desktop even with terrible Mint/Ubuntu support for software development. For my desktop for work and my private server I will stay with Fedora 20 as long as possible - it has good package support and already tuned to be UX friendly. May be Fedora 22 (desktop) will change a game back.
69 • @59 (by jaws222 on 2014-12-29 14:00:06 GMT from United States)
"Is there a LINUX for me - without all the bloatware?"
If you're looking for a "lean" distro there are a few I'd recommend
Crunchbang
Bodhi
Q4os
even Lubuntu, which would be a bit friendlier
70 • Digital Audio Workstation (by Fairly Reticent on 2014-12-29 16:30:54 GMT from United States)
Isn't low latency a prime concern for a kernel, given this priority? Not many distros build on this base: a search here for multimedia toolsets only lists 11, not all of those mention a low-latency kernel up-front, many are more concerned with video production.
How many support or include an audio server like Jack?
71 • Fedora 21 KDE spin - thumbs up (by Andy Prough on 2014-12-29 17:24:01 GMT from )
I tried the KDE spin over the weekend, and really enjoyed the whole experience.
I found that I ran into some of Jesse's software installation issues if my WiFi was nearly out of range. Seems like most of his complaints in that regard might simply be internet connectivity issues.
Otherwise, many of his complaints were in regards to Gnome 3, which really aren't a Fedora issue at all. I would recommend trying the KDE spin - very nice setup. In fact, Fedora should strongly consider moving to KDE as its default desktop.
72 • Use the even numbered Fedora versions (by Scott Wislon on 2014-12-29 21:56:54 GMT from United States)
I have found that the even numbered versions are usually a smoother experience. I cut my Linux teeth on Red Hat, I do wish it was a bit easier to configure items in fedora such as the NVidia, multimedia, etc.
73 • Fedora core 21 (64 bit Workstation) (by zykoda on 2014-12-30 11:14:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
Chose second disk to install from live workstation version. Wish the bootloader could be suppressed? (can it be?), at least for testing. Smooth install, followed by big (slow) update which required an initial reboot prior to installation (this is new: what happened to dynamic update?). Unattended update in multiboot system would not be possible OOTB without prior setup. Update to primary boot partition required after installation. Definitely not a beginners distro in multiboot.
74 • RANT! About Hardware Requirements Again! (by Ben Myers on 2014-12-30 22:49:23 GMT from United States)
Today, I visited someone to whom I had given a live Linux DVD and tried to walk him through it on an elderly computer. Well, the boot process did not get very far, hanging the system way before any desktop would show up. I am not naming the distro to keep its reputation unsullied, except that it is one of the top 6 in hits on DistroWatch. I told my friend that I suspected that the system did not have enough memory, only 512MB, but I really did not have a clue.
So here is the rant? NONE of the top 6 distros on Distrowatch have an easy-to-find page that succinctly describes the hardware needed to run the distro. There are minimum requirements, which are a sick joke when stated by Microsoft, and what I'll call the requirements needed to run a distro reasonably. This goes way beyond my complaint about Intel PAE a couple of weeks ago.
C'mon folks! Spit it out! How much memory? Minimum graphics required? Minimum hard drive space? Supported out-of-the-box brands of wifi cards? Audio chips supported?
If you offer different desktops, how does that affect amount of system memory and the minimum type of graphics needed for each of the three surviving mainstream graphics chips (NVidia, AMD, Intel)?
You want people to use YOUR DISTRO? Don't flame me here. Go fix your web site by adding an easily accessible (direct from the home page?) list of minimum recommended hardware. Then post a message here. It's all about promoting your distro and making it easy for people who might use it. It's also about getting a bad rap for your distro when it does not work at all.
75 • @58... low bloat (by dangerous don on 2014-12-31 00:53:12 GMT from Nicaragua)
You should look at Peppermint it is designed mainly for online use and based on Ubuntu though Modified to be light and fast.....we had it running for a year or so on an old old laptop ..but it performed well.....
@ 74
I sort of agree with you that a lot of distros dont really explain the requirements too good.....specially regarding graphics cards i have been caught out in the past with litte advice about getting AMD to work or similar (probably Fedora)
76 • @74 Hardwae Requirements (by Rev_Don on 2014-12-31 01:10:26 GMT from United States)
Maybe you could post the hardware specs here and maybe someone might be able to offer some advice about it.
I do agree about the lack of minimum hardware requirements though.
77 • Minimum what, exactly? (by Fairly Reticent on 2014-12-31 05:13:57 GMT from United States)
Ben Myers' rant is understandable.
Matching hardware to a particular kernel or software combination has traditionally been a blind gamble, where vintage looms large - both kernel vintage and hardware vintage. Some ISOs include some form of hardware analysis tool for revealing inner secrets of a particular computer, few are sophisticated enough to generate useful recommendations based thereon.
This is why so many are initially disappointed with one ISO, initially enamored with another, and, after one or more multiple updates, aggravated with their suddenly-broken choice. Large sections of distro forums are filled with endless permutations of this issue.
"It Just Works" ... unless or until it doesn't, of course. Dry humor at best, this often accompanies attempts to trivialize or avoid the problem. It says more about the speaker than about a distro.
That said, I'm amazed nobody mentioned LXLE, which at least distinguishes between low hardware capability and minimal software.
Or the process hidden in PCLinuxOS installation, during which, after collecting some preference data, the software is "thinking"...
(By-The-Way, DistroWatch ratings show seeker interest, not any distro quality or performance, and should not be mis-used as such.)
78 • hardware requirements for top 6 (by Milo on 2014-12-31 05:51:45 GMT from Poland)
This is presented strictly FYI, and does not serve as veiled commentary on the ease of finding this information, nor seek to assert to the adequacy of the presented information.
Linux Mint: Codename -> Edition -> Announcement -> "System requirements" @ http://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php
Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements - (12.04) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#System_Requirements
Debian: Release -> Installation Guide -> Architecture -> "System Requirements" @ https://www.debian.org/releases/
openSUSE: https://en.opensuse.org/Hardware_requirements
Fedora: Release Notes -> "Hardware Overview" @ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/
CentOS: "Recommended minimum requirements" @ https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product
Distros don't have Microsoft levels of financial resources to ensure testing against a plenitude of hardware, so minimum requirements are probably as good as it's going to get in most cases.
79 • RE: OS (by Diego Rodrigues on 2014-12-31 11:55:08 GMT from Netherlands)
@ 58 • OS (by sobo on 2014-12-27 14:30:58 GMT from Canada)
I produce tracks on an (older) AMD64 machine powered by Debian.
What you are looking for is the exact same I was looking for in a distro.
That's why I always use the Debian netinstall .iso to install a basic Debian system, no bells and whistles.
I add everything else as I move forward as such installing only what I really need. Perhaps this is something that can work for you.
80 • Working on open source distributions (by Diego Rodrigues on 2014-12-31 12:26:25 GMT from Netherlands)
I am currently studying to become a Linux System Administrator, I would love to work with/on an open source distribution. I was thinking of helping out with packaging, Debian needs more LV2 Plug-ins....
....okay so maybe I need LV2 Plug-ins to play around with in Qtractor :)
So I was thinking; maybe that's something I can do.
The thing most distro's are missing is guidance for people who want to contribute. I could really need a mentor who can look at what I am doing, correct me if I make mistakes (allowing me to learn from them) and providing a helping hand when I am stuck with something.
I think that proper mentorship programs are a great idea and a necessity, such programs are needed to pass on knowledge and share ideas, maybe get some new input.
81 • @76 @78 Hardware Requirements Are Not Too Visible, If at All (by Ben Myers on 2014-12-31 23:19:15 GMT from United States)
Rev Don: What you are asking is the reverse of what I would like to see. And it let's the movers and shakers behind these distros off the hook.
Milo: What you have found and posted validates what I keep saying, because the info is either buried deep in the distro web site or gone missing.
How about something simple, right there on the home page? The tab could be something a little technical like "Hardware Requirements". Or it could be in verbose plain language: "The Minimum Hardware You Need to run This Distro."
As for what will not run, that needs to be covered, too. In the same place and reported by people who have suffered a non-running distro on a specific set of hardware.
Finally, I have almost as much heartburn from the (Was it OpenSuse?) claim that the distro will run on a 500MHz system with 1GB of memory as I do with the Microsoft absolute ficticious hardware requirements. One would have to struggle to find a 500MHz Pentium III with 1GB of memory, because very few of them ever existed. The Intel 440BX desktop chipset maxed out at 1GB, but for some strange reason, most of the 440BX boards I've ever seen could take no more that 768MB in three DIMM slots. And it would run slow enough that I could watch paint dry. So the minimum requirements have to be both real and realistic, not some odd fantasy.
Once again, I will belabor the obvious. If you want people to use your distro, make it easy for them, instead of putting up obstacles of no information or misleading information or incomplete information.
Enjoy the New Year and the holidays and think about it.
82 • @80 (by Milo on 2014-12-31 23:43:04 GMT from Poland)
Does mentors.debian.net fit the bill of what you are seeking?
83 • @73 (by Adam Williamson on 2015-01-01 00:35:51 GMT from Canada)
"Wish the bootloader could be suppressed? (can it be?)"
Yes. In the disk selection screen there's a 'full disk summary and bootloader' link (blue text) - click that and it opens a screen with full details about each disk, which also lets you choose the bootloader stage1 target disk, or pick *no* disk, i.e. disable bootloader installation.
"Smooth install, followed by big (slow) update which required an initial reboot prior to installation (this is new: what happened to dynamic update?). Unattended update in multiboot system would not be possible OOTB without prior setup."
you can do live updating with gnome-packagekit, yumex, yum or dnf if you like; offline update is just one mechanism (and only default on the Workstation flavour). The rationale for offline updates is fairly sound, but in practice a lot of people do use live updates. You keep talking about 'multiboot', but you're really talking about just *one particular* multiboot configuration. If you just install Fedora with its default config and let it control the bootloader configuration, it will configure multiboot for you (and Fedora is the default entry in the bootloader menu, so unattended offline updates of Fedora will work). Will it do a perfect job in all circumstances? No, but then neither does any other multiboot mechanism, because multiboot is a whole big mess that gets messier the harder you look at it.
84 • @83 multiboot (by Barbara F. Lang on 2015-01-01 12:58:40 GMT from Austria)
"... multiboot is a whole big mess that gets messier the harder you look at it."
Multiboot works fine for me - here some example menuentries for Grub2 from a xfs-partition (don't use ext4):
Grub2 to Grub2:
==============
menuentry 'SL7 sda1' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-' {
search --fs-uuid --set=root --hint hd0,msdos1
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
Grub2 to Grub2beta:
==================
menuentry 'MINT sda1' {
search --fs-uuid --set=root --hint hd0,msdos1
multiboot /boot/grub/core.img
}
Grub2 to Grub1 or W7:
====================
menuentry 'SL6 sda4' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-' {
set root='hd0,msdos4'
chainloader +1
}
menuentry 'W7 sda2' {
set root='hd0,msdos2'
chainloader +1
}
A good New Year to all!
85 • @83 multiboot (by Barbara F. Lang on 2015-01-01 13:05:45 GMT from Austria)
Sorry, the word "yourUUID" didn't appear in my comment last time - so once again:
"... multiboot is a whole big mess that gets messier the harder you look at it."
Multiboot works fine for me - here some example menuentries for Grub2 from a xfs-partition (don't use ext4):
Grub2 to Grub2:
==============
menuentry 'SL7 sda1' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-yourUUID' {
search --fs-uuid --set=root yourUUID --hint hd0,msdos1
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
Grub2 to Grub2beta:
==================
menuentry 'MINT sda1' {
search --fs-uuid --set=root yourUUID --hint hd0,msdos1
multiboot /boot/grub/core.img
}
Grub2 to Grub1 or W7:
====================
menuentry 'SL6 sda4' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-yourUUID' {
set root='hd0,msdos4'
chainloader +1
}
menuentry 'W7 sda2' {
set root='hd0,msdos2'
chainloader +1
}
A good New Year to all!
86 • @82 (by Diego Rodrigues on 2015-01-02 15:33:26 GMT from Netherlands)
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
I will have a look at this straight away.
Cheers.
87 • CDLABEL in boot from hard drive ISO (by zykoda on 2015-01-02 17:25:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
/dev/disk/bylabel gives CDLABEL without "_Compiz" after MATE for the correct assess to the software.in a GRUB2 stanza.for Fedora 21. The Xfce version is as the iso name.directly suggests. Useful chainloader stanzas from B F Lang.Thanks AdamW #83 for the detail re Anaconda control re bootloader+update. I did not want the bootloader from F21 to be in control so I put in on the second hard drive MBR as a way of side stepping any issues.Must flick through Anaconda docs.
88 • @81 System requirements (by Rev_Don on 2015-01-02 17:55:41 GMT from United States)
I fully understand that my comment was the reverse of what you were asking, but I was attempting to deal with the immediate symptom of assisting in finding a distro that would fit your needs. That is something that can be handled fairly quickly.
Conversely, changing the way that some distros list their system requirements is something outside of our direct control. We can send e-mails, make forum posts, etc. requesting that they make that information more readily available, that is going to take time.
I thought that the more immediate problem was getting a distro that would work on your friends computer while working on the more long term problem of the sites posting their system requirements, but maybe that doesn't really concern you.
I did mention in my second sentence that I agree with you. I went thru this several months ago. That is one of the reasons I offered to assist in finding an appropriate distro for that system.
89 • @81 Distro for an old P4 (by Ben Myers on 2015-01-02 18:41:31 GMT from United States)
The system in question was a Viewsonic (way more famous for monitors) 2.8GHz Pentium 4 small desktop with 512MB. I forget if it had integrated (probably Intel) graphics or an AGP card. Honestly, not worth the bother. If it was mine, I would tear it down for scrap. But I was trying to help out a local recycler (who has done me some favors) how to get value out of some of the systems he has there. Mint 17.1 boots live just fine on the Dell Latitude D520 laptops he has, so I've told him to use Mint as a quick 95+% confidence test of the hardware, something I do often myself with the odds and ends of computers that show up here.
I've been stonewalled numerous times by the lack of useful information about the minimum configuration required. I realize we can't ask for "minimum configuration supported", like we can with the paid-for distros, which are equally deficient in this area. A true blind spot of people in the Linux/BSD world.
90 • @89 old P4 w/ 512megs (by Rev_Don on 2015-01-02 18:58:41 GMT from United States)
On an older P4 like that LXLE is one of the better choices. I've had no problems installing it and getting it to run on any of the S478 Pentium 4's I've tried it on, even those with 512 megs of ram. It even works well on the Non PAE models.
I've also found that a distro based on 12.04 will quite often work better than one based o n 14.04 on these older P4 systems. That means that Mint 13 might run better than 17 on it.
91 • @90 Want My Cake and Eat It,Too (by Ben Myers on 2015-01-02 20:46:17 GMT from United States)
Unfortunately, the older distros often do not play nice with the newer applications like the latest GIMP, LibreOffice, Thunderbird and Chrome or Firefox.
I figured that LXLE would work OK, but I didn't bring a flash stick to try with it. The fellow with the system is very much a newbie with Linux, and I am afraid that more than one distro would be more than he could handle, especially with the different desktops presenting a different way to do something useful, and the different distros including more or less useful software and even different software.
I am a strong advocate of the KISS principle, so I try to use and set up a very limited number of distros. To do otherwise would require a 48-hour day, and I have other demands for my time in my life.
Also, for the Linux systems I set up on my own, I have plenty of memory removed from systems put out of their misery and recycled, so I would rarely ever set up a system with less than 2GB. For me, it's just pointless to set up a system with less memory contributing to excess wear and tear on the hard drive, as code and data come and go from the swap file.
And because this is a minor money-making proposition for me, I just do not like the idea of selling someone a 10-year old system, or sticking someone with a high-priced $100+ ancient computer.
92 • beware PClinuxOS (by Roland on 2015-01-03 22:28:53 GMT from United States)
Downloaded & installed PClinuxOS to sda1 on my SSD. It did not recognize Salix on sda3. Tried to run 'update-grub' command not found. Does not play well with others. Also, it has a utility to create bootable thumbdrives, but they must be re-formatted from vfat. No unetbootin. And it still tries to make the first user ID 500, unlike every other linux. Too non-standared!
Number of Comments: 92
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| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Quirinux
Quirinux is a Devuan-based Linux distribution designed for the development of animated films. The project provides tools to create an animated film using various common techniques (traditional, digital, cut-out, CGI-3D, stop motion, motion graphics) using open-source software. The distribution uses the Xfce desktop and its main features include ease of installation with the Calamares system installer, GIMP image editor that comes with a configurator tool and extra plugins, and choice of themes and desktop layouts.
Status: Active
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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