 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 584, 10 November 2014 |
Welcome to this year's 45th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Often times it is not enough that an operating system is capable and has useful features, software should also be easy for people to use. This is why most of the popular desktop distributions are those which pay attention to details and attempt to provide a friendly experience to the user. This week we focus on one such project, OpenMandriva, and we take the distribution's latest version for a spin. Plus we have several discussions lined up, including a continuation of our rolling release trial where we compare the characteristics of five different rolling release operating systems. We share a few more thoughts on systemd, Debian and boot times and we share a tip on throttling the network traffic of specific processes. Several interesting announcements were made last week and we link to these in our News section. We talk about Debian's upcoming release of "Jessie", PC-BSD's new package manager and UEFI support, we share some of the new features of Fedora 21's beta release and a peek at the new features in the latest release of openSUSE. Plus we talk about a new container technology being developed by Canonical. As usual, we share the distribution releases of the past week and look ahead to fun new developments to come. We wish you all a great week and happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (48MB) and MP3 (54MB) formats
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Introducing OpenMandriva 2014.1
 OpenMandriva is one of several distributions to crawl out of Mandriva's slow implosion. The OpenMandriva project has chosen to focus on being a user friendly, desktop oriented distribution and the project's website states, "OpenMandriva Lx is an exciting free desktop operating system that aims to cater to and interest first time and advanced users alike. It has the breadth and depth of an advanced system but is designed to be simple and straightforward in use."
The latest release of OpenMandriva, version 2014.1, contains mostly minor updates and polish over the previous release. The new offering features the KDE 4.13 desktop, changes to some default applications, the 3.15 release of the Linux kernel and systemd is now the default init software. The release notes let us know this is the first version of OpenMandriva to incorporate support for UEFI booting. We are also warned that package management might not work straight away when running from the live media: "The live media currently comes with no predefault mirrors. This means that there are currently no mirrors accessible to urpmi. The mirror list is updated/refreshed periodically."
There is just one edition of OpenMandriva, a live disc which features the KDE desktop. This edition of the distribution is available in 32-bit and 64-bit x86 builds. The ISO we download is about 1.5GB in size. Booting from the distribution's media offers us the choice of trying the project's live desktop environment or we can jump straight into installing the distribution. I decided to experiment with the live environment first. The operating system began by asking me a few questions such as which language I'd like to use, I was asked to accept the project's license agreement and I then selected my time zone from a list. We then confirm our keyboard's layout. With these questions answered I was presented with the KDE desktop. The background of the desktop is a soft blue colour. Icons sit on the desktop, enabling us to launch the system installer or donate to the OpenMandriva project. The KDE desktop features a traditional layout with the application menu, task switcher and system tray placed at the bottom of the display. We are soon greeted by a welcome window. This welcome screen features several tabs and I will get into the features of this welcome screen later.
OpenMandriva 2014.1 - the welcome screen
(full image size: 464kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
OpenMandriva features a graphical installer. When run from the live environment, the installer asks very few questions. We are offered the chance to manually partition our hard drive or we can take an automated "guided" option. I went with manual partitioning and found OpenMandriva supports a wide range of file systems, including ext2/3/4, Btrfs, JFS, XFS, ReiserFS and LVM volumes. I decided to try working with Btrfs and also created a small swap partition. The system installer copies the operating system to our hard drive and, when it is finished, it offers to install a boot loader for us. Once the boot loader is in place we are asked to reboot the computer. The first time we boot into OpenMandriva a window appears and asks if we would like to remove unnecessary hardware drivers and language support. We are then asked to create a password for the administrator account and we are tasked with creating a regular user account for ourselves. Once our account has been created we are brought to a graphical login screen.
When we sign into our account we are brought back to the KDE desktop and the welcome screen appears. The welcome application is divided into several tabs. The first tab displays a greeting and a brief description of the OpenMandriva project. Another tab includes a list of configuration options we can access by clicking on their respective icons. A third tab provides quick links for installing popular software packages not included in the default installation. Another tab gives us access to the distribution's on-line resources such as a manual, the project's bug tracker, the OpenMandriva donation page and the mailing lists. A final tab includes licensing information and links to the project's source code. The configuration buttons in the welcome screen launch modules in the distribution's Control Centre and I will touch on those later in this review.
Clicking on icons next to software packages instructs the package manager to download the selected item. I attempted to install multimedia codecs using the welcome screen. A small window opened and indicated software was being downloaded. A short time later a message appeared saying simply "Codecs not installed". I clicked on the button for installing multimedia codecs a second time. Immediately another message appeared saying codecs were already installed on the system. A quick check with one of the distribution's media players showed that, in fact, multimedia support was available. After I closed the welcome window I noticed an icon in the system tray was displaying a message in which the software was asking to be configured. This system tray application turned out to be a weather reporting utility.
OpenMandriva 2014.1 - browsing the web and exploring the application menu
(full image size: 390kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
One of the first things I did after installing OpenMandriva was to open the Control Centre and use the update manager module to check for new software. The first time I ran the update manager utility it took a few minutes to return any results. The application shows us a list of available package upgrades and we can check a box next to each item we want to download. The first day I was running OpenMandriva there were 55 waiting updates and these totalled 113MB in size. I found when I instructed the update manager to download the waiting upgrades the application's window blanked for about a minute. Eventually the update manager's window restored back to its usual appearance and I could watch a progress bar expand as the available packages were downloaded. At first it seemed all updates had been installed successfully. However, the next time I booted into OpenMandriva the distribution's boot process froze and an error message saying "sparse file not allowed" was displayed. The system then paused until I had pressed any key on the keyboard. There appeared to be no other ill effects other than this initial pause at the beginning of the boot process which persisted during the remainder of my trial.
OpenMandriva ships with a small collection of useful software. We are treated to the Firefox web browser (without Flash, by default), the KMail e-mail application, the Konversation IRC client, the Kopete instant messaging software, the KTorrent bittorrent client and the KPPP dial-up software. The LibreOffice productivity suite is installed for us along with the Okular document viewer. For drawing and image manipulation we are given the Krita application and we can utilize our webcam using the Kamoso program. OpenMandriva ships with the Amarok music player, the Plasma Media Centre and the VLC multimedia player. Multimedia codecs are not available by default, but can be easily added to the system through the package manager or via the welcome screen. The distribution also ships with a remote desktop client, text editor, calculator and the Kleopatra encryption utility. I found no sign of Java on the system and no compiler. In the background OpenMandriva runs atop the Linux kernel, version 3.15.
OpenMandriva 2014.1 - changing desktop settings
(full image size: 289kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
OpenMandriva ships with a friendly package manager that gives us a good degree of flexibility without cluttering the interface. The package manager shows a list of software categories down the left side of the screen and packages in those categories over on the right. Near the top of the window we see two drop-down selectors which allow us to filter the software displayed. One control allows us to filter based on a package's status (installed/not installed) while the other control allows us to filter types of software. For instance, we can view only desktop software or only security updates or we can see all updates or all packages, including libraries and command line programs. We can choose to add or remove packages by clicking a checkbox next to a package's name.
The installation or removal of software happens as one big batch of actions and the package manager is locked while our commands are processed. Generally, the package manager worked quite well for me. I like the filtering options and the package manager is fairly responsive. I only ran into one problem during my trial. I attempted to install one package which had a dependency no longer in the OpenMandriva repositories and the package manager refused to install the software since the dependency was missing. I checked and the upstream software does not actually rely on the missing dependency anymore, which is probably why the library was missing from the repositories. Sadly, there is no override option to install the application without the missing dependency.
My favourite feature of OpenMandriva is the distribution's Control Centre. The Control Centre gives us a central panel from which to manipulate virtually every aspect of the operating system. The Control Centre is nicely organized into categories of system management such as software handling, hardware, security, networking, etc. From this central panel we can launch user friendly modules that allow us to check for updates, manage software packages, get information on our hardware, work with user accounts and set up printers. Using the Control Centre we can manage disks, adjust the system clock, manipulate background services and configure backups. We can also change our video card settings. (I feel it worth mentioning the Control Centre lets us set the range of display resolutions we can access while the KDE System Settings panel lets us select which resolution we want to see from that range. Effectively we need to adjust the screen's resolution from two locations.) From the Control Centre we can enable Internet connection sharing, configure network proxies and import settings and documents from a Windows partition.
OpenMandriva 2014.1 - working with software packages and network settings
(full image size: 238kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Two modules in the Control Centre stood out and I feel they are worth mentioning. The first is the system services panel. This module acts as a front end to systemd. It shows us the status of background services on the system and allows us to run or stop each service. Some distributions I have tried recently have not adjusted well to working with systemd and the front end tools have reflected this. While using OpenMandriva I found the system services module not only looked good, but performed well. There were no delays or errors and services responded to my commands. The other module that stood out, though in a less positive way, was the backup configuration tool. The backup utility allows us to configure what files on the system will be backed up and to where. What it does not do is allow us to schedule backups or, apparently, create a backup "now". In fact, despite configuring backups of my home directory it seems no backup was performed during my trial. There is probably a service or button somewhere to enable backups, but I have not found time to go looking for it.
During my trial I ran OpenMandriva on a physical desktop computer and in a VirtualBox virtual machine. In both environments the distribution worked well. The operating system was stable and responded quickly. When running in the virtual environment I had to adjust OpenMandriva's screen resolution, but otherwise everything worked properly. When I ran the distribution on physical hardware all my hardware was properly detected, but OpenMandriva sometimes took several minutes to boot. Not every start-up required a lot of time, but sometimes the system would appear to hang during the boot process, for up to about three minutes in one instance. In either environment, OpenMandriva required about 550MB of RAM when logged into KDE.
Conclusions
This version of OpenMandriva was presented mostly as a bug-fix and polish release and that shows. The operating system is stable and the interface looks friendly. For the most part, the distribution worked very well for me. OpenMandriva has a sense of polish and friendliness about it which is hard to qualify, but is certainly there. The system installer, the Control Centre and the pretty (yet traditional) desktop environment all appear to be designed to be as newcomer friendly as possible. I was especially impressed by the systemd front end. Recent experiments with Arch, openSUSE and Debian have left a bad taste in my mouth has far as systemd is concerned and OpenMandriva did a beautiful job of smoothing over the details of systemd while presenting a functional front end. During my trial I ran into two minor glitches, both with package management, but nothing that really caused me any concern.
In recent years I think it has been too easy to think of the Mandriva-based projects as "also ran" distributions. The financial troubles Mandriva faced and the user friendly efforts of projects like Ubuntu and Mint have conspired to push Mandriva out of the spotlight. OpenMandriva 2014.1 is one of the best efforts I have seen to date to take back the "beginner friendly" crown. This distribution was easy to set up, easy to use, has a great control centre and should appeal to both novice users and power users alike. I was happy and a bit impressed with OpenMandriva 2014.1 and I recommend giving it a try.
* * * * *
Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8 GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500 GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6 GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar) |
Debian enters feature freeze, systemd-free Grml delays release over critical bug, PC-BSD introduces UEFI support, Fedora presents new features, openSUSE introduces boot environment snapshots, Canonical shares new container technology
 Debian GNU/Linux, one of the Linux community's largest and most venerable distributions, has entered feature freeze preceding the release of Debian 8.0 "Jessie". Jonathan Wiltshire posted last week that Debian's Testing repository, code name "Jessie", had been frozen: "The release team is pleased to announce that Debian 8.0 "Jessie" is frozen. Further updates to this release will be restricted to bug fixes only." According to Debian's freeze policy, the Testing branch will only accept critical bug fixes from now until December 5th and updated translations through to January 5th. Debian usually does not follow a strict release schedule, instead releasing new stable versions when they are suitably ready. Based on the project's current policy document it appears as though we may see Debian 8.0 released around the end of February or beginning of March 2015.
Another post on the debian-devel-announce list worth mentioning here was by the same author, Jonathan Wiltshire, who summarised the recent release team sprint and, in the process, also announced the code names for Debian GNU/Linux 9 and 10: "Our release managers chose the following codenames for future releases: Debian 9 "Stretch", Debian 10 "Buster"." Those users who run Debian or less wide-spread processor architectures will be interested in the current state of Debian "Jessie" in terms of support for these architectures: "There remained yes/no decisions for arm64, ppc64el and kfreebsd. arm64 and ppc64el have made enough progress to be release architectures for Jessie. Britney no longer has special handling for these two. Therefore, FTBFS regressions for arm64 and ppc64el are now release critical (but non-regressions are not). We discussed kfreebsd at length, but are not satisfied that a release with Jessie will be of sufficient quality. We are dropping it as an official release architecture, though we do hope that the porters will be able to make a simultaneous unofficial release."
Many of the above-mentioned technological achievements have been largely overshadowed by the continued "political" bickering among some of the Debian developers over the Debian constitution. One disastrous result of these squabbles was the unexpected resignation of Joey Hess, one of the best-known and respected developers of the popular distribution: "It's become abundantly clear that this is no longer the project I originally joined in 1996. ... We've made some good things, and I wish everyone well, but I'm out. If I have one regret from my 18 years in Debian, it's that when the Debian constitution was originally proposed, despite seeing it as dubious, I neglected to speak out against it. It's clear to me now that it's a toxic document, that has slowly but surely led Debian in very unhealthy directions." You can read more on the subject in these blog posts by John Goerzen, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho (who joins Joey Hess in quitting Debian), Wouter Verhelst and Martin-Éric Racine.
* * * * *
 The controversy surrounding systemd as the default init system in Debian "Jessie" is probably what have triggered much of today's troubles in the Debian land - even though many systemd proponents maintain that users still have a choice to use SysVInit if they so prefer. Grml, a Debian-based live distro built by "sysadmins for sysadmins" tested this assertion, but the result was disappointing. In fact, the project has been forced to delay its upcoming release due to a release-critical bug in the udev package: "We sadly won't manage to hold the planned stable release date. Systems *without* systemd in Debian have a bug which we consider as serious regression for us. Sadly this turns out to be a show stopper for us. We need to get this issue resolved before we can announce a new release candidate or stable release. Any help in resolving this issue is more than welcome."
* * * * *
 November has ushered in several new developments and advancements across multiple projects. The PC-BSD project announced last week they were launching a new release candidate in anticipation of PC-BSD 10.1. The 10.1 preview contained several updated packages and a CD spin of PC-BSD's server edition. The project also reported PC-BSD 10.1 will include UEFI support and the ability to use full disk encryption. In addition, PC-BSD will ship with a new, HTML5 based package manager that can be used to manipulate software packages on both the desktop and server editions of the operating system.
* * * * *
 Exciting new technology is also coming to the Fedora project. Fedora launched a beta version of the upcoming Fedora 21 release. The beta shows off some new technologies, such as the GNOME desktop running atop a Wayland display server, a new server monitoring solution called Cockpit and Atomic Host, a minimalist platform for running containers. The beta also shows us how Fedora 21 will be organized, with three different products (Workstation, Server and Cloud) available. Fedora Magazine shares some of the details: "As part of the Fedora.next initiative, Fedora 21 will boast three products: Cloud, Server, and Workstation. We encourage you to visit the wiki pages providing the details of these individual products for more information. In addition to the new Fedora products, Fedora users also have the choice of Fedora Spins that highlight user favourites like KDE Plasma Workspaces, Xfce, LXDE, and Sugar on a Stick (SoaS)."
* * * * *
 One of the big events of the past week was the launch of openSUSE 13.2. The new openSUSE release features a more streamlined installer, faster control centre and new artwork: "The new openSUSE 13.2 installer comes with several changes targeted to make the installation process easier and more welcoming to new users. Those changes include a new and more straightforward installation work flow, better and smarter automatic proposals, less cluttered configuration options and a brand new layout for the user interface." However, perhaps the biggest advancement is the way openSUSE automatically takes snapshots of the Btrfs file system and allows the user to rollback to previous configurations by rebooting the machine and selecting an old snapshot from the boot menu.
openSUSE 13.2 - the Welcome screen and KDE desktop
(full image size: 375kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
 Canonical, the organization behind Ubuntu, has announced they are working on a new type of virtualization technology that combines the lightweight nature of Linux containers with many of the features virtual machines provide. The new technology is called LXD and Canonical describes it in the following way: "Take all the speed and efficiency of Docker, and turn it into a full virtualisation experience. That's the goal of Canonical's new initiative to create the next big hypervisor around Linux container technologies." Using LXD, Canonical hopes to make it possible to run more operating system instances inside containers on a single server.
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| Tips and Tricks (by Jesse Smith) |
Limiting network transfer speeds
Have you ever found yourself in the situation where you wanted to be downloading (or uploading) a large file and you also wanted to either browse the web or stream a video at the same time? Quite often, unless we have a wonderfully high bandwidth Internet connection, downloading a file will interfere with other transfers over the network. As someone who is regularly torrenting new Linux images while also browsing the web or trying to find some entertainment on YouTube, I find it very useful to have some way of limiting the amount of bandwidth an application is using.
While some applications will self regulate themselves, others are not so polite. The trickle command is a utility which will help us enforce bandwidth restrictions on specific applications. This means I can limit a download I'm performing with wget while I allow other applications to use as much of the remaining bandwidth as they like. The trickle command can generally be found in the software repositories of Linux distributions and is also available for the BSD family of operating systems.
Running trickle is fairly straight forward. On the command line we run trickle, followed by the maximum rate we want to allow a program to transfer data. Then we finish the command by supplying the program we wish to run. Here is an example of running trickle and limiting the amount of bandwidth the wget command can use to 50kB/s:
trickle -d 50 wget http://example.org/download-this-file.iso
The above example only limits data being downloaded (note the -d flag near the start of the line). Should we wish to limit both upload and download rates we can do that too. In this next example we launch the Transmission bittorrent program and limit it to uploading at 100kB/s and downloading at 50kB/s:
trickle -d 50 -u 100 transmission
The trickle application is especially useful when scheduling backups over the network. We usually do not care how quickly a backup is completed, but we can be fairly sure we do not want the backup interfering with other tasks. Placing trickle in our backup script will prevent our routine network traffic from interfering with other downloads, web browsing or media streaming.
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| Rolling-Release Trial (by Jesse Smith) |
Rolling-release trial - week 5
Getting back to my experiment with rolling release distributions, things continue to be interesting (at least for me). For example, someone messaged me and correctly pointed out that it is possible to manually add multimedia repositories to openSUSE's Factory branch. I followed the instructions they sent me, running:
zypper ar -f -n packman http://packman.inode.at/suse/Factory/ packman
This did indeed add the required repository. After that I was able to play audio files in various media formats. However, I was still not able to play any video files. The system offered to hunt down video codecs for me, but all automated searches failed. I manually installed a video player and all the video codecs I could find and, still, none of my media players on openSUSE would play a video.
Moving on, I tried searching for updates with openSUSE's graphical update manager. The application claimed it had found updates and then crashed. Switching over to the command line package manager, zypper, revealed no new updates available. Perhaps openSUSE is too close to a new release (at time of writing) for any new packages to be flowing into Factory.
 Upgrading software on PCLinuxOS went smoothly, as usual. Checking for updates in the Synaptic package manager turned up 32 new items. I then checked for updates to LibreOffice using the separate LibreOffice Manager application and found no new copies of the productivity suite. Someone reminded me last week that PCLinuxOS does not automatically upgrade the Linux kernel. Instead, we need to hunt through Synaptic to find new versions of the kernel (four or five are available in the repository to give people a range of options). I installed the latest kernel and it ran well for me. This bumps up PCLinuxOS's lagging kernel version in my chart of version numbers below.
My installation of PC-BSD threw a few new things my way this week. First, using the project's update manager told me no new upgrades were available. However, turning to the command line pkg package manager revealed 232 new packages were waiting in the Edge repository. The pkg utility failed about halfway through the upgrade saying it couldn't download all the waiting software. I was able to resume the upgrade process and it completed cleanly. This week I also ran the freebsd-update utility which checks for low-level updates to the operating system. This tool found a new FreeBSD kernel update. This update downloaded and installed without any problems. My only complaint with the kernel upgrade is I do not know how big it was.
A few days after writing the bulk of this column, it was time for me to launch into another series of upgrades. PC-BSD was the first on my list to update. The project's update manager properly detected a new upgrade to the base system. This upgrade appeared to install cleanly, but the next time I booted PC-BSD the operating system locked up before it could reach the login screen. The system was frozen and I had to force a reboot. Though the latest version of PC-BSD Edge would not boot, the most recent snapshot, from the previous week, still worked and I was able to get PC-BSD up and running again simply by booting into this week-old snapshot.
I was happy to find that both Debian GNU/Linux and Arch Linux worked smoothly for me again this week. Both distributions provided big updates (327 packages from Arch, 214 from Debian) and I encountered no problems with either distribution. I did notice Debian's update took a long time and the distribution appeared to be stuck thrashing my hard drive for about five minutes, but the upgrade eventually finished. Both distributions continued to work well afterwards.
Here is a table with the number of new packages from each project last week, along with the size of the package manager's download.
| Distribution |
Packages updated |
Bandwidth required |
| Arch |
327 |
764MB |
| Debian |
214 |
173MB |
| openSUSE |
0 |
0MB |
| PCLinuxOS |
32 |
125MB |
| PC-BSD |
232 |
721MB |
Here is a table of each operating system and the version numbers of key packages in each project.
| Package |
Arch |
Debian Sid |
openSUSE |
PCLinuxOS |
PC-BSD |
| Kernel |
3.17.1 |
3.16.2 |
3.16.4 |
3.16.6 |
10.0-RELEASE-p18 |
| X |
1.16.1 |
1.16.1 |
1.16.1 |
1.14.6 |
1.12.4 |
| KDE |
4.14.2 |
4.14.2 |
4.14.1 |
4.13.3 |
4.14.2 |
| LibreOffice |
4.3.2.0 |
4.3.2.1 |
4.3.2.2 |
4.3.2.2 |
4.3.2.0 |
| Firefox |
33.0.2 |
31.2.0 |
32.0.2 |
33.0.1 |
33.0.1 |
* * * * *
I have been running the operating systems in my rolling release trial for over five weeks now and I feel some distinct patterns and characteristics are beginning to emerge. For instance, the Arch Linux distribution appears to consistently have the most up-to-date software packages. Arch may not always have the newest version of every package, but on the whole Arch seems to be leading the pack as far as getting new software versions out quickly. This idea appears to be supported by OS Watershed which tracks the package versions in multiple distributions. Arch is typically the least "obsolete" distribution in their list. During my trial Arch has, so far, remained stable and no serious problems have shown themselves. There was a Java update that required manual attention, but no critical packages have required user intervention. However, the flip side to this is Arch, while up to date, is probably the most difficult distribution in the trial to get up and running. To install Arch one should first read through the documentation, have a pretty good idea of how to set up X and a display manager and be willing to manually handle things like networking configurations and formatting hard drive partitions. Of all the projects in my trial, Arch took the longest to set up, due in large part to the amount of reading and typing involved.
Debian stands out in a few ways. Like Arch, setting up Debian Sid takes a relatively long time. One must manually configure the Sid software repositories and be prepared for a long installation process. However, once up and running Debian has probably caused me the least number of headaches. Debian may be the only distribution in my trial where everything worked as advertised and nothing broke or developed quirks. Debian is probably also the fastest, most responsive distribution in my trial and Debian Sid requires the least amount of disk space.
The PCLinuxOS distribution is almost certainly the most user-friendly distribution in the rolling release trial. It has a nice installer, is easy to set up and has a nice interface. PCLinuxOS performs quickly and comes with a huge pile of applications installed by default. PCLinuxOS is the most conservative of the distributions I tested, so much so that LibreOffice and the Linux kernel are not upgraded automatically through Synaptic like other packages are. PCLinuxOS may be, by default, slower moving than the other rolling release distributions, but it is never far behind and it is probably the most newcomer friendly project in the trial. I feel it is also worth mentioning PCLinuxOS is the only operating system in my trial where managing software upgrades is handled by default through a graphical package manager and (in my trial) that graphical package manager actually worked.
PC-BSD is typically used as a stable release with regular upgrades every three months, but it works passably well as a rolling release operating system. PC-BSD is fairly easy to set up and it comes with some great administration tools. A few minor things broke during my trial (like the AppCafe and Lumina's launch bar). At the start of week six PC-BSD failed to boot, but recovering the system was as easy as rebooting and launching the last good snapshot. PC-BSD's application versions often lag a little behind when compared to other projects, like Arch, but not by a significant amount. What makes PC-BSD stand out is that the project's update manager (when it detects updates) will automatically create file system snapshots and add these snapshots to the boot menu. This means that when an upgrade breaks the operating system, fixing the issue is as simple as rebooting the computer and selecting the previous snapshot. PC-BSD will probably continue to work until our hardware gives out. The operating system even automatically cleans up old file system snapshots so we do not need to worry about running out of disk space.
During my trial openSUSE gave me the most trouble. Even finding the proper ISO to download took some searching. Installing openSUSE went smoothly, but I constantly ran into trouble with the distribution's PackageKit service, with the YaST update module, with the snapper utility not being configured properly and systemd incorrectly handling services. Multimedia support never really worked properly on openSUSE and the documentation provided concerning multimedia was either incorrect or out of date. The openSUSE distribution required the most disk space of any project in my trial and sometimes pushed out massive updates with one weekly upgrade reaching 1.25 GB in size.
The openSUSE project's one redeeming feature when it came to my rolling release trial was Btrfs. The advanced file system allowed me to add a second virtual disk to my openSUSE installation and merge it into my storage pool with no fuss. In the latter weeks of my trial openSUSE's zypper package manager has automatically taken snapshots of the file system and allowed me to recover old snapshots by rebooting. This means openSUSE, like PC-BSD, is effectively immune from upgrades causing a problem. The openSUSE tools for working with snapshots are not quite as refined as PC-BSD's, but they are close. Having openSUSE use Btrfs by default and snapshot the file system automatically makes up for a lot of other problems in my mind as it provides a good deal of security against broken packages and flexibility where storage space is concerned.
At this point I believe it is time to bring my rolling release trial to a close. It has been (for me, at least) an interesting and fun experiment with rolling releases. I hope it has been informative and I have greatly appreciated all the feedback people sent in. Originally, I planned to run these five operating systems until one broke and one finally did, or at least PC-BSD failed to boot and required rebooting into an existing snapshot. I was happy to find PCLinuxOS, PC-BSD and openSUSE all have guards against upgrades breaking the system. Realistically, Arch users and Debian users can, assuming they use Btrfs as their root file system, make themselves immune to broken packages too.
From a practical point of view, I feel this trial has demonstrated the real danger of running a rolling release is not running into situations where the operating system won't boot. While that can (and did) happen, there are other concerns one needs to watch out for such as the amount of time and resources (especially bandwidth) that go into maintaining a rolling release. A single operating system in my trial easily required ten times more bandwidth and upgrade time than most fixed release systems I use. Plus, most of the projects in my trial required more disk space than I would usually allocate. There is also the rare case where an application's configuration changes, causing a problem with our settings, but that is rarely a critical concern.
Each project in my trial had strengths and weaknesses and I suspect each operating system will appeal to different people. Hopefully this experiment has been informative and helped those of you considering rolling release distributions. Starting in early 2015 I hope to run a similar trial with another set of either rolling or development repository projects. If you would like to e-mail me with your suggestions I will accept the five most popular or interesting ideas.
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| Opinion (by Jesse Smith) |
More on systemd and boot times
 Two weeks ago I made some statements with regards to systemd and SysV init. Specifically, I tested how quickly an installation of Debian Testing "Jessie" would boot using systemd and then compared that boot time against Debian booting using SysV init scripts. I also timed Arch Linux booting using systemd for comparison with Debian booting with systemd. In my tests I found, in environments as identical as I could make them, it did not matter which init technology was used, Debian would boot to a graphical login screen in 30 seconds running either SysV or systemd. Arch Linux, running systemd, booted to a graphical login screen in 40 seconds.
Shortly after my results were posted I received an e-mail entitled "systemd has way more features than faster booting" with links to a couple of Red Hat presentations on the many features of systemd. The kind soul who e-mailed me is quite correct, systemd has many features and I encourage people to read up on them. The reason I focused on boot times is that in every forum conversation, e-mail exchange and nearly every blog post I've encountered that talks about systemd and its benefits over SysV, the main point that gets talked about is systemd's faster boot times. As I quoted in my previous post, both Debian's team and Fedora's claim systemd is faster at booting a Linux distribution than SysV or Upstart. The idea that systemd is faster than other init technologies has become so ingrained in open source culture that it is routinely considered common knowledge.
I believe in verifying the things we think are true to see if they hold up to observation. For example, I have heard many people claim the Z file system (ZFS) requires at least 8GB of RAM to operate. However, I have been running ZFS on multiple machines with less than 2GB of RAM for several years. I've heard people claim either the GNU C compiler or the Clang compiler perform better, or produce better results, and I test those ideas to see if they have merit. Sometimes "common knowledge" does turn out to be true, often times is can be proven false with a little testing.
Following my limited testing of systemd and SysV, someone e-mailed me to ask if I would duplicate the tests, this time booting to a command line environment rather than a graphical login screen. I was happy to do so. Once again, I ran Debian Testing with systemd and SysV init systems. Using either init system the boot times varied by a second in either direction from one boot to the next. When the times were averaged out, both init systems brought Debian to a text console prompt in 17 seconds. For comparison, I booted Arch Linux with systemd three times. To get to a text console login prompt on Arch took an average of 22 seconds.
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| Released Last Week |
Trisquel GNU/Linux 7.0
Rubén Rodríguez Pérez has announced the release of Trisquel GNU/Linux 7.0, a new version of the Ubuntu-based distribution with focus on software freedom as defined by Free Software Foundation: "Version 7 of the Trisquel GNU/Linux distribution, code-named Belenos after a Celtic sun god, has been released. Belenos is a long-term support release that will be maintained until 2019. Relevant new packages and features include: kernel Linux-libre 3.13 with lowlatency and bfq scheduling by default; custom desktop based on GNOME 3.12 fallback; Abrowser 33 (a free Firefox derivative) as default browser; GNU IceCat 31 available as single-click optional install from Abrowser's homepage, complete with many extra privacy features; Electrum Bitcoin wallet pre-installed; moved to DVD format, now with 50+ languages and extra applications; improved accessibility by default." Here is the brief release announcement.
Trisquel GNU/Linux 7.0 - the default desktop uses GNOME's "Fallback" mode
(full image size: 1,028kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
openSUSE 13.2
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa has announced the release of openSUSE 13.2, a major new version of the popular open-source operating system for desktops, laptops and servers: "Dear contributors, friends and fans: openSUSE 13.2 is out! After one year on continuous improvement in the tools and procedures and many hours of developing, packaging, testing and fixing issues, a new stable release is here, providing the best that free and open source has to offer with our special green touch: stable, innovative and fun. Green light to freedom. This is the first release after the change in the openSUSE development mode, with a much shorter stabilization phase thanks to the extensive testing done in a daily basis in the rolling distribution used now as a base for openSUSE stable releases." Read the rest of the release announcement for further information and screenshots.
Salix 14.1 "Live Xfce"
George Vlahavas has announced the release of Salix 14.1 "Live Xfce" edition, a Slackware-based live distribution featuring the Xfce desktop environment: "The Salix Live team is proud to announce the immediate release of Salix Live Xfce 14.1. We haven't had a live release for quite a while, this being our first official live release in more than two years. During the last few months there has been a lot of action behind the scenes to get this ready. The live system creation scripts that we were using up to the 13.37 release (called SaLT), while originally created with the idea to become a one-stop solution for creating our live releases without much trouble, had become a burden to use. After a lot of trying to get them work with newer releases, we decided that we should switch to a better, easier to use system. This is based on the Slackware Live Scripts, which is also what powers other Slackware-based live systems as well." Continue to the release announcement for further details.
Pisi Linux 1.1
Pisi Linux is an independent distribution built by many of the former developers of Pardus Linux - complete with custom package management and system installer, as well as several home-made utilities. It is also one of the few remaining Linux distributions (besides Slackware and Gentoo-based ones) that haven't switched to systemd as their default init system. The second stable release of Pisi Linux, version 1.1, was announced yesterday on the project's website: "Pisi Linux continued its activities after 1.0 and we have reached our second stable version - 1.1. This version resulted from intensive studies - it is strong, stable, comfortable to use, safe and fast. This release includes, along with many innovations, the following main packages: Linux kernel 3.17.1, KDE 4.14.2, MATE 1.8.0, Firefox 32.0.3, LibreOffice 4.3.2, GIMP 2.8.10, Calligra 2.8.5, Clementine 1.2.3, Qt 4.8.6, glibc 2.20, Binutils 2.24, Coreutils 8.22." Here is the full release announcement.
Pisi Linux 1.1 - one of the few remaining non-systemd Linux distributions
(full image size: 662kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
AV Linux 6.0.4
Glen MacArthur has announced the release of AV Linux 6.0.4, a new update of the project's Debian-based distribution with a collection of audio and video production software: "A new AV Linux 6.0.4 ISO image with important security updates and a lengthy changelog of updates and improvements has been released. For the best experience it is highly recommended to update to 6.0.4 by installing the new live DVD image. As a second option there is also a new updater script to update existing AV Linux 6.0.2 and 6.0.3 systems with the core updates and security fixes provided by 6.0.4. This release features the diehard4 theme, I'm sure folks will either love it or hate it, don't worry the complete former AVLinux Blue theme is still there." Read the release announcement for further details.
KaOS 2014.11
Anke Boersma has announced the release of KaOS 2014.11, an Arch-inspired, rolling-release desktop Linux distribution with KDE 4.14.2 as the default desktop: "KaOS is proud to announce the availability of the November release of a new stable ISO image. Since August updates were done to a good 1,200 packages and to stay with the policy that a first 'pacman -Syu' should be an uncomplicated one for new users means a new ISO image is needed. Testing this ISO image took longer then usual, due to the fact that getting ready for an UEFI capable ISO image is a must. For that, the interim installer is not a good option, so a lot of work was done to try and get the new Qt 5-based installer ready, but it is just too early to use on a stable ISO image. So this is one last time a BIOS-only ISO image. At the base of the system some of the updates this ISO image has include: Linux kernel 3.16.7, GCC 4.8.3, LLVM 3.5.0, Qt 5.3.2, OpenSSL 1.0.1.j, MESA 10.3.2, Bash 4.3.030, Poppler 0.26.1, systemd 216 and X.Org Server 1.16.1." Read the full release announcement for more details.
Parsix GNU/Linux 7.0
Alan Baghumian has announced the release of Parsix GNU/Linux 7.0, a desktop distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux 7, but featuring the GNOME 3.12 desktop: "We are proud to announce that the final version of Parsix GNU/Linux 7.0 a.k.a 'Nestor' is available for immediate download. Parsix Nestor ships with GNOME Shell 3.12.2 and a brand-new kernel based on Linux 3.14.23. Other features: modernized kernel build system, enhanced live boot system and installer to support UEFI-based environments, built on top of the rock solid Debian 'Wheezy' (7.0) platform. This version has been synchronized with Debian Wheezy repositories as of November 6, 2014. Parsix Nestor ships with GNOME 3.12 and LibreOffice productivity suit by default. Highlights: X.Org 7.7, GRUB 2, GNU Iceweasel (Firefox) 33.0, GParted 0.12.1, Empathy 3.12.7, LibreOffice 3.5.4, VirtualBox 4.3.10." See the release announcement and release notes for further information.
Parsix GNU/Linux - a Debian "Wheezy"-based distribution with GNOME 3.12
(full image size: 393kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
October 2014 DistroWatch.com donation: The Document Foundation
We are pleased to announce that the recipient of the October 2014 DistroWatch.com donation is The Document Foundation, the organisation behind the development of LibreOffice. It receives US$400.00 in cash.
There is no need to introduce LibreOffice, but what exactly is The Document Foundation? Here is the answer: "The Document Foundation is a charitable foundation under German law, founded on February 17th, 2012. Its objective, as defined in the statutes, is to nurture and develop office software that is free to use by everyone. The foundation furthers a sustainable, independent and meritocratic community which develops free, libre and open-source software based on open standards through international collaboration. We are driven by thousands of volunteers as well as paid contributors worldwide, and with joint forces, provide the best free office suite, LibreOffice, which is available in over 110 languages, for any major platform." Please visit the above page if you wish to offer support to the foundation and its excellent suite of office applications.
Launched in 2004, this monthly donations programme is a DistroWatch initiative to support free and open-source software projects and operating systems with cash contributions. Readers are welcome to nominate their favourite project for future donations. Those readers who wish to contribute towards these donations, please use our advertising page to make a payment (PayPal, credit cards, Yandex Money and Bitcoins are accepted). Here is the list of the projects that have received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NDISwrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and Sabayon Linux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350), Frugalware Linux ($340), cURL ($300), GSPCA ($400), FileZilla ($400), MythDora ($500), Linux Mint ($400), Parsix GNU/Linux ($300), Miro ($300), GoblinX ($250), Dillo ($150), LXDE ($250)
- 2009: Openbox ($250), Wolvix GNU/Linux ($200), smxi ($200), Python ($300), SliTaz GNU/Linux ($200), LiVES ($300), Osmo ($300), LMMS ($250), KompoZer ($360), OpenSSH ($350), Parted Magic ($350) and Krita ($285)
- 2010: Qimo 4 Kids ($250), Squid ($250), Libre Graphics Meeting ($300), Bacula ($250), FileZilla ($300), GCompris ($352), Xiph.org ($250), Clonezilla ($250), Debian Multimedia ($280), Geany ($300), Mageia ($470), gtkpod ($300)
- 2011: CGSecurity ($300), OpenShot ($300), Imagination ($250), Calibre ($300), RIPLinuX ($300), Midori ($310), vsftpd ($300), OpenShot ($350), Trinity Desktop Environment ($300), LibreCAD ($300), LiVES ($300), Transmission ($250)
- 2012: GnuPG ($350), ImageMagick ($350), GNU ddrescue ($350), Slackware Linux ($500), MATE ($250), LibreCAD ($250), BleachBit ($350), cherrytree ($260), Zim ($335), nginx ($250), LFTP ($250), Remastersys ($300)
- 2013: MariaDB ($300), Linux From Scratch ($350), GhostBSD ($340), DHCP ($300), DOSBox ($250), awesome ($300), DVDStyler ($280), Tor ($350), Tiny Tiny RSS ($350), FreeType ($300), GNU Octave ($300), Linux Voice ($510)
- 2014: QupZilla ($250), Pitivi ($370), MediaGoblin ($350), TrueCrypt ($300), Krita ($340), SME Server ($350), OpenStreetMap ($350), iTALC ($350), KDE ($400), The Document Foundation ($400)
Since the launch of the Donations Program in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$41,625 to various open-source software projects.
* * * * *
Distributions added to waiting list
- FUZIX. FUZIX is a fusion of technologies drawn from many sources, including UZI, V7 and POSIX.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 17 November 2014. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
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| Linux Foundation Training |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Easy Arch Install (by Arch Watcher 402563 on 2014-11-10 09:17:51 GMT from United States)
Refer back to my comments "Bridge into Linux" and "Arch-Manjaro vs Kernel.org Gut Drops" on easy Arch installation and Debian v Arch. I fled Debian for Arch and have never looked back. Arch ships plain vanilla upstream software, whereas Debian tweaks it.
2 • Rolling Release/ Suse (by kc1di on 2014-11-10 10:19:31 GMT from United States)
Hi Jessie - I believe you also have to add this repository to get DVD playback in OpenSeSE.
zypper addrepo -f http://opensuse-guide.org/repo/13.2/ dvd
3 • booting time (by sunny on 2014-11-10 10:35:55 GMT from Ireland)
booting time sysvinit vs systemd i.e. Debian vs Arch: this has not been my experience, on my machine Arch boots much faster than Debian especially in text mode. The command:
$ systemd-analyze blame
lists the started unit files, sorted by the time each of them took to start up, and will tell you which unit is the culprit.
4 • Rolling Release Test (by kc1di on 2014-11-10 10:44:01 GMT from United States)
Thank You Jesse for the rolling release testing, sorry it will be ending for this time. But enjoyed it and will look for the next one when you do it.
My list of preferences as far as your test went pretty much followed
With Debian being the most stable (even when using Sid) and PCLinuxOS coming in a close second. (I've always like PCLinuxOS but have this one problem program I need and it will not run in Wine on their 64 bit release.) OpenSuSe though I've tried to like it is just too time consuming to keep up with. Have not Used PC-BSD in years. And Have Used Manjaro but not Arch so can't comment on that one.
Anyway It was very interesting to following -Thanks
5 • Rolling Release / Debian (by Tom on 2014-11-10 11:37:01 GMT from Germany)
Too bad your testing comes to an end right now as Debian gets into freeze. Would have been very interesting to me how fast (or if) Sid is going to break now.
6 • For wget, you'd also use --limit-rate (by lramos on 2014-11-10 12:20:46 GMT from Brazil)
About trickle, one also could achieve bandwidth limitation for wget with the option --limit-rate=<bw_limit>. Obviously this applies for wget, and in a wider sense, to any application which provide bandwidth limiting features, with its own syntax.
7 • ZFS (by LAZA on 2014-11-10 12:49:16 GMT from Germany)
Manual FreeNAS:
"ZFS typically requires a minimum of 8 GB of RAM in order to provide good performance. The more RAM, the better the performance, and the FreeNAS® Forums provide anecdotal evidence from users on how much performance is gained by adding more RAM. For systems with large disk capacity (greater than 6 TB), a general rule of thumb is 1 GB of RAM for every 1TB of storage."
8 • Uneven rolling release test (by cykodrone on 2014-11-10 12:59:37 GMT from Canada)
You've got the whole gammit of distros in your test list. Arch and Sid are not used by everyday Joes that much, speaking of 'cutting' edge, do you actually *use* any of them, or do you just boot in to them to see if an update will bork? Because I've tried Sid, and believe you me, it breaks, and pukes, I found numerous nooks and crannies that were funky. PCLinuxOS and PC-BSD are marketed as reliable and n00b friendly, no surprises there, but I too found PC-BSD's updater and servers a little 'quirky', which is surprising considering its base OS, the granddaddy of mega-server OSes. I won't even comment on openSUSE except it's like pouring molasses in to your machine, it's been over-engineered for years, pretty much like KDE is over engineered now.
9 • Is trickle still developed (by Microlinux on 2014-11-10 13:05:43 GMT from France)
Recently I've been looking for a solution to limit bandwidth, since I administrate a few networks where I have to isolate some resource hogs. Trickle looked very promising, but I wonder if it is still developed. Any information about that?
10 • openSUSE codecs, systemd (by Mustafa Muhammad on 2014-11-10 13:47:39 GMT from Iraq)
Hi,
I am using the rolling openSUSE (was called Factory, now Tumbleweed), I installed vlc AND vlc-codecs, everything runs smoothly, every type of video I try.
About systemd, try:
systemd-analyse blame
to see what is taking so long, my openSUSE takes about 17 seconds (autologin to KDE and opened the menu, but I use SSD)
systemd-analyze plot > systemd.svg
plots the time for each service into an svg image.
11 • Rolling releases (by vw72 on 2014-11-10 15:03:48 GMT from United States)
I think the rolling release series was very good and provided a lot of helpful information. I wonder, however, if openSUSE had so many problems because at the time of the testing, Factory was the development version of openSUSE 13.2 and wasn't stabilized. Now that openSUSE has separated the development (Factory) version from the rolling release (Tumbleweed) version, I'd be curious to know how the experience would go.
12 • Wrong openSUSE Tumbleweed (former Factory) (by ferri on 2014-11-10 15:14:46 GMT from Slovakia)
You have something wrong in your rolling openSUSE because actual correct state is
kernel 3.17.1
KDE 4.14.2
LibreOffice 4.3.3.2
Firefox 33.0.2
13 • OpenMandriva (by Lpen on 2014-11-10 15:23:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I tried OpenMandriva and was really impressed, sadly I could not get my Brother Printer to work.
14 • Jesse, openSUSe and multimedia (by Barnabyh on 2014-11-10 15:23:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Media players in openSUSE used to be deliberately crippled to ensure they were unable to play 'patent-encumbered' codecs. That would only leave a re-compile or an upgrade from one of the external repositories that would host a functional version.
Maybe that is why you were still unable to play video files? Just a thought.
15 • systemd and Arch (by schultzter on 2014-11-10 15:23:53 GMT from Canada)
I know it's anecdotal but when I went from Slackware -current (SysV init) to Arch (systemd) the boot-up time went from "much faster than Windows" to "what?! it's already booted?!"
The key I think is that I did not set-up technically identical systems (the hardware was the same) but rather identical purpose machines. So I can do everything I wanted to do on my new Arch set-up although the software components may not be exactly the same as they were when I was running Slackware.
I'm also discovering some of the other things I can do with systemd, like cron jobs and launching jobs on file systems changes or other system status changes. All pretty handy.
End result for me is that systemd boots up way faster than SysV Init did.
16 • systemd boot time confusion (by David on 2014-11-10 15:25:12 GMT from United States)
The main reason systemd was stated to have an advantage over SysV for boot times is because it could start services in parallel, whereas SysV starts them serially. When compared to SysV systems for which that is true, systemd does boot faster. However, for distributions like Mageia/Mandriva and Debian that used prcsys or startpar with SysV to parse LSB headers to determine service dependencies and start services in parallel, those boot time benefits did not come to fruition with systemd in practice. In fact, when Mageia/Mandriva switched, systemd was slower to boot than sysvinit was. However, as others have mentioned systemd does give you tools to analyze the boot time and you can tweak your configuration to make it boot faster. You just won't experience this "out-of-the-box." Another theoretical advantage in systemd was replacing a lot of shell scripts by C programs, greatly reducing the number of new processes that need to be created while booting, which should help given that process creation is an expensive operation. Why this hasn't led to more notable reductions in boot time, I'm not sure.
17 • Debian Joey Hess (by linuxista on 2014-11-10 15:45:08 GMT from United States)
"The controversy surrounding systemd as the default init system in Debian "Jessie" is probably what have triggered much of today's troubles in the Debian land - even though many systemd proponents maintain that users still have a choice to use SysVInit if they so prefer."
One of those proponents that users still have a choice was apparently Joey Hess himself, who, according to some digging by the guys at the Linux Action Show found Hess' statements about how, because of Debian's BSD branch SysV was always still going to be supported, Debian users would still have a choice, and therefore the reactivity surrounding the Systemd conversion was exaggerated. So it might be a fairer statement to say the sky-is-falling reaction against systemd in the Debian community is more to blame. We might be jumping to conclusions then about what is the root cause of his trouble with the project and the constitution are.
18 • Arch installation (by Paulo Fino on 2014-11-10 16:08:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
Dear Jesse,
I would like to point out Antergos as a way of getting Arch Linux up and running quickly.
Essentially, Antergos is arch with some extra packages and artwork maintained within an additional repo.
I have been running self-installed Arch quite smoothly for about two years (on a Lenovo G470 laptop). Recently I got a bigger HDD for the machine and decided to try the Antergos distro to install Arch. I must say that, compared to my previous manual install with all the wiki reading, the Antergos automated installation is a breeze and makes the system faster, needing less resources.
And the only thing I had to do to switch to pure Arch was to purge the Antergos repo and edit grub.cfg to change the name back.
Thanks for all the reading!
Paulo Fino
19 • rolling releases (by Alie on 2014-11-10 16:24:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just to comment on PClinuxOS, there are newer kernels in testing (I use 64bit versions)uname -r gives me 3.17.2-pclos1 not too shabby, as for Libre Office this is updated by going to the LO manager in the "Software Center" in the main menu and it downloads and installs the latest version. You will know when there is an update by seeing the update-notifier go purple rather than orange :)
Present_arms
20 • Antergos (by wolf on 2014-11-10 17:55:14 GMT from Germany)
#18
Full support here instead of the hole typing and reading (which is recommended to fully understand your system) Antergos way to setup Arch is very fast and you don't have to go through the hole Arch Wiki experience (again).
Some purists might have a point talking about unwanted bloat (some MB of unnecessary gtk) but I'm not sure if that's even true.
For me it isn't cause I like GNOME
I even found it very fast, Newbie friendly and nothing broke by updating 12 months running....
So people if you want to give Arch a try without learning Arch try Antergos it's smooth as sillk
Wolf
21 • linux (by kas on 2014-11-10 18:20:02 GMT from Spain)
i'm still waiting a perfect linux distro .!
22 • OpenMandriva (by Dave Postles on 2014-11-10 18:30:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Interesting. Looking at the screenshots above, it looks like OpenMandriva has diverged from the Rosa desktop, back to a more traditional KDE style. I'll have to check it out.
23 • Antergos & Rolling Releases (by Ti-Paul on 2014-11-10 18:44:20 GMT from Canada)
I too wanted to share my addiction to Antergos.
I've been a long time distro hopper (since late 90s).
Since the birth of Antergos i've never "hopped" again.
I used it to get Arch and all my Full Fledge desktop installed in a breeze (more than a year ago). And always check official ARCH Linux news web site (https://www.archlinux.org/news/) before making updates in order to make necessary changes if they tell me...
Beside, I have an Ubuntu (latest LTS) installation that i've kept just in case. Never had to rely on it for now! :)
24 • Some things change over night (by M.Z. on 2014-11-10 20:15:23 GMT from United States)
@12
In a rolling distro many packages change overnight, while articles can't necessarily do the same. Here is my PCLinuxOS config from yakuake:
uname -r
3.16.7-pclos1.pae
So the article is "wrong" on that too, but the upgrade was fairly recent & likely soon after the article was finalized. As Jesse mentioned in a rolling article earlier, finished articles can't change as fast as package repos. This means a well written article will never have packages that match all the latest versions in all project repos. Just like more stable rolling distros take a bit more time to stabilize new software instead of pushing hot & new, so must well written articles be a bit out of date as well.
25 • @jessie about systemd-sysv (by matteo on 2014-11-10 20:19:56 GMT from Italy)
I've tested the same on my laptop. ironically, while both inits give the same boot times, the shutdown was far faster with systemd.
timing:
boot 9.5 sec for both systemd and sysv
shutdown 4.5 secs for systemd vs 8.5 secs for sysv
boot is computed from decompression message of linux up to gnome 3 login. shutdown computed from shutdown button pression up to powering of of the laotop.
OS: debian testing
HW: lenovo T440, 8gb RAM, OS on the 16GB msata provided with the laptop.
home is on a separate disk: a sata3 ssd.
26 • openSUSE multimedia (by AnklefaceWroughtlandmire on 2014-11-10 20:25:03 GMT from Ecuador)
Thanks a lot to Jesse for the rolling release trials, it was very interesting.
I suspect that the openSUSE multimedia woes were probably owing to several factors:
1. After adding Packman, it's necessary to switch some pre-installed packages from the official openSUSE version over to the Packman. This is because openSUSE actually cripples some of their packages so that they can't work with 3rd-party proprietary codecs. Fortunately it's easy to switch over to the Packman versions, as illustrated in this screeshot:
http://s13.postimg.org/c2p31hhkn/Screenshot_from_2014_11_10_15_17_19.png
2. Also, don't forget to set Packman to a lower number, which (confusingly) givies it higher priority:
http://s3.postimg.org/is4hicxtv/Screenshot_from_2014_11_10_15_20_06.png
3. Next, try installing the following packages:
vlc-codecs
gstreamer-0_10-plugins-bad
gstreamer-0_10-plugins-bad-orig-addon
gstreamer-plugins-bad
gstreamer-plugins-bad-orig-addon
gstreamer-0_10-plugins-ugly
gstreamer-0_10-plugins-ugly-orig-addon
gstreamer-plugins-ugly
gstreamer-plugins-ugly-orig-addon
(In my case, I had similar troubles at first, but I later realized that it was because I was missing the *-orig-addon packages. Also notice that there are two versions of gstreamer, the old 0.10 release that some apps still require, and the newer 1.x release.)
Hope this helps!
27 • OpenMandriva -- wistful thoughts (by EngelbertHumperdinck on 2014-11-10 20:32:57 GMT from United States)
I wish OpenMandriva didn't have Russian code because I respect their efforts to make Linux welcoming to novices. AFAIK they swap code back and forth with the ROSA people:
'OMA and ROSA teams work in close cooperation exchanging code in both directions which constantly improves and maintains this shared base.'
https://blog.openmandriva.org/en/2013/12/openmandriva-and-rosa/
Half of the world's viruses and malware come from the not-so-former Soviet Union and China. That is a fact. You're nuts to run software from either place, so OpenMandriva, ROSA and Deepin are out.
28 • shocked (by robert3242 on 2014-11-10 20:43:28 GMT from United States)
I was shocked to read about the changes at Debian. I hope the resignations of Mr. Hess and several others don't lead to further losses. Personally I am not a partisan of any particular init system. I've had my concerns about systemd, which I've expressed, but at the end of the day, as long as it works I don't particularly care how. What's scary is that a relatively simple issue can be this divisive, can cause a world-class project to start hemorrhaging people it can ill-afford to lose.
29 • init boot time test ground rules (by cykodrone on 2014-11-10 20:46:49 GMT from Canada)
Can we set some boot time test ground rules?
Do we start timing from just after the POST is complete to the time the OS reaches the desktop? Or is it from the point of pushing the power button? This is a variable, some motherboards POST slower than others. Just sayin.
Here's another variable, do we temporarily enable auto-login for the test(s)?
If there's no consistency, then results, reports and bragging are useless. Sheldon Cooper would agree with me, lol.
30 • #27 (by Teresa e Junior on 2014-11-10 21:06:02 GMT from )
@EngelbertHumperdinck said: "Half of the world's viruses and malware come from the not-so-former Soviet Union and China. That is a fact. You're nuts to run software from either place, so OpenMandriva, ROSA and Deepin are out."
And what about the other half, I lol'd!
31 • @30 (by Dave Postles on 2014-11-10 21:31:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
The other half - that's any one of the CIA, NSA, GCHQ.
32 • viruses (by wolf on 2014-11-10 21:39:31 GMT from Germany)
#30
Sure funny but I laughed harder #27 comment when the joke wasn't spoon fed to me
but maybe Irony loses it's edge over the Internet.
Bye Wolf
33 • Salix 14.1 live xfce (by Louis on 2014-11-10 21:54:48 GMT from Canada)
Comments on Salix live : love language selection on boot menu. Java not working out of box, need to modify mime set up or application pane in firefox. Kind of slow to boot.
34 • Perfect Distro (by Jymm on 2014-11-10 22:09:41 GMT from United States)
kas - Yeah, and I am still waiting for a perfect Windows distro. LOL. Doin't hold your breath. As for LInux, Point Linux is as close to a perfect distro (for me) as I have ever found.
35 • Rolling release & Manjaro (by Louis on 2014-11-10 22:09:56 GMT from Canada)
I am using manjaro for the past 6 months. Easy to install, complete with codecs, flash, java !. Non free drivers for nvidia from installation media. Kernel choices. Modification for ssd out of the box .... i love it
36 • Antergos lovefest (by jaws222 on 2014-11-10 22:29:44 GMT from United States)
@18, 20 & 23
I'd like to jump in on the Antergos lovefest myself. I've been running a Mate and an XFCE version and they are both great distros and extremely fast. Also love pacmaXG
37 • #35 Manjaro (by Smellyman on 2014-11-11 01:50:11 GMT from Taiwan)
Manjaro is doing it right, holding back updates just enough to run through Arch and their own testing to find bugs. I got an SSD and read a lot about how to make sure it is setup right, only to find that everything I was supposed to tweak was already done by Manjaro. Pretty awesome. Also, good artwork and styling across all the DE's.
38 • Arch-based distros; rolling, start timings? GUI torrenting. (by gregzeng on 2014-11-11 02:44:00 GMT from Australia)
Comments so far fanboy the No.4 on the Distrowatch-Arch-based distro. My preference is No.2, Netrunner, because it seems to be more fine-tuned to the GUI-user.
Using CLI (avoiding the GUI) is an unfriendly way of defining "rolling" release. All Linux distros could be said to be "rolling", if defined using CLI. Even Windows could be said to be "rolling" if certain 3rd-party freeware apps are used (e.g. 360 Total Security).
On boot-timings, etc ... using flash drives or SSDs seem to be the best way to speed these timings. Then turning off certain "safety" & "maintenance" routines could better these timings again, but for less long-term safety.
Good to see CLI wisdom on torrent bandwidths. If bust people don't want to waste thought-time by staying in the GUI, use qBittorent, available in all (?) Linux & Windows distros. It allows both off-peak torrenting and/ or bandwidth limits, flexibly, without CLI rubbish. Unlike Transmission, etc, it also allows real-time torrent searching, downloading, etc.
A little off-topic: the Wikipedia entry on Distrowatch seems inaccurate again, as to the main persons involved with the site, IMHO. Hope this site will continue; very upset when it went offline a few months ago, for just several hours.
39 • #17, #19, #25 (by Kubelik on 2014-11-11 03:42:57 GMT from Denmark)
#17. I think you got that right:)
#19. +
#25. Boot time in Jessie with or without systemd depends on DE: GNOME is much faster than XFCE. - Systemd has not fully entered. Jessie is still testing, allthough frozen, not stable.
40 • Boot times - vs - Shutdown (by Ron on 2014-11-11 04:20:53 GMT from United States)
One might think boot time was of quintessential importance from all the discussions about it. I personally regard shutdown time as more relevant to me as a home desktop user.
I think for a production server, boot up time is of little concern, one boots up once and life goes on....
For a user like myself, wife calls, dinner time, shutdown.
Phone call girlfriend lonely, ha, ha, just joking, me anyhow, but you get the point.
I like to shutdown fast, and, well, windows should certainly win the prize for longest shutdown. Linux, much faster, any version.
41 • rolling release test (by Reuben on 2014-11-11 04:35:41 GMT from United States)
I don't think running these for a little bit over a month really proves much about their stability. A serious break can occur after months or even years of running these.
42 • #41 - rolling release test (by hoos on 2014-11-11 08:44:36 GMT from Singapore)
It was never going to be more than a taste or flavour of what rolling release is like. A lot would depend on the status of a particular distro at the time of this test. If it was conducted just before an update that would require substantial user intervention, then the potential for problems would increase. If it was a generally smooth sailing period, then the distro would seem to be stable during the updates.
I'm glad this 5-week test was carried out despite its limitations. I look forward to seeing next year's test with a different set of distros.
43 • rolling release test (by linuxista on 2014-11-11 08:59:49 GMT from United States)
@41 My experience is that minor, reparable breaks can occur once a year or so with a rolling release, but serious, catastrophic, nuke 'n pave type breaks are much more likely when conducting release upgrades.
44 • You want fast boot... (by Carlos on 2014-11-11 10:24:50 GMT from Portugal)
This was more than a year ago, but the fastest boot I've experienced on Linux was a LinuxBBQ version with LXDE desktop.
LinuxBBQ is based on Debian Sid and uses systemd.
On my "old" almost 10 years old Acer laptop with a 64GB Kingston SSD, that thing booted in under 5 seconds. (!!!)
No joking...
Shutdown was immediate. I'd say less than 1 second.
45 • Fastest bootup (by Bootup on 2014-11-12 04:00:29 GMT from United States)
I still get a fastest bootup on my ChromeOS Chromebook than either systemd or SysV distros I've installed.
46 • Quick Look at RoboLinux 7.7.1 XFCE (by Ben Myers on 2014-11-12 05:08:29 GMT from United States)
I keep looking for distros that might run nicely on older laptops in good working order, like a pretty nice 15" IBM Thinkpad R51 I have here. I replaced its original Pentium M CPU with a Dothan CPU with its PAE enabled, to give me a wider choice of modern distros. It has 2GB of memory, a 100GB hard drive, CD-RW/DVD combo drive and an Intel 2200 802.11bg card inside.
First, I put RoboLinux on one of my all purpose flash sticks. But when run from flash, RoboLinux complained that it could not install essentially because the files were fragmented. Never seen that one before. So I burned a DVD and started off again. I got as far as the partitioner, and I could not make much sense out of what it was telling me about the existing partitions. So I booted up other software, deleted the partitions, then started all over again by booting the DVD. This time, what the partitioner was saying was not ambiguous, and I succeeded in partitioning the hard drive using the defaults chosen by the installer. The installation proceeded ahead to successful conclusion from this point.
I rebooted as required and looked at the inventory of software that comes with the distro. Although it is shown clearly in the RoboLinux package list on DistroWatch, I was stunned to see an almost archaic LibreOffice 3.5.2. This I do not understand. Firefox is pretty contemporary and so is GIMP. I have not looked extensively at the versions of the other software that comes with the distro.
So I went to the LibreOffice web site and downloaded the latest Debian 4.3.3 and looked inside its zip file. The README file told me how to do a manual install by opening up a terminal window. Having done command line stuff a lot, I ran the LibreOffice install command as shown and the install went smoothly.
Being able to run Windows XP or Windows 7 looks very inviting, but an attempt to do so will have to wait for another day, like tomorrow. It is bedtime now.
The XFCE desktop is not gorgeous, and not butt-ugly either. It runs quite responsively on this older hardware. It will also be interesting to compare it with the X86 Gnome version of 7.7.1.
So far, I see that RoboLinux has two warts that might inhibit newbies from trying it. The partitioner could explain itself in far clearer language. The version of LibreOffice is way too old and it requires a command line install, albeit a simple one liner.
More to follow. As the title says, this is a QUICK look at RoboLinux... Ben
47 • Defaults (by mjjzf on 2014-11-12 06:05:17 GMT from Denmark)
Xfce on default settings is not exactly beautiful, but remember Gnome 2? That would make your eyes bleed on defaults... Xfce can be done *very* nicely. I usually use Openbox with Lxpanel, but Xfce offers some additional options.
48 • Debian & systemd (by Mirix on 2014-11-12 07:40:58 GMT from Belgium)
I have tried hard to remove systemd from Jessie. To no avail. Has anyone succeeded in getting rid of this trojan horse?
The last solution I tried was init-select which does not help at all and results in the filesystem being booted as read-only.
49 • PCLinuxOS - (still) no GPT (by Carlos on 2014-11-12 09:28:11 GMT from Portugal)
The problem with PCLinuxOS is that it still uses Grub 0.97 and also the installer is very old.
With these things combined, it does not recognize GPT partition tables.
If you have your HDDs with GPT (as I do, for many years), don't even try to install PCLinuxOS, the installer shows the partitions but they are wrong and if you try to guess what is what and make some sense out of that mess, you'll loose data.
Very dangerous and I'm very surprised that they still haven't fixed this.
50 • re 48 systemd (by cornelius on 2014-11-12 15:49:46 GMT from Canada)
How is systemd a trojan horse?
Debian developers FREELY chose systemd because they probably thought it is good software. You FREELY chose Debian because you probably thought it is good software. For the thousand time, systemd was NOT imposed on anybody, it is simply impossible to impose anything in the free software world.
Why do we have to post derogatory comments regarding systemd every single week?
All this whining and bitching about systemd make me enjoy your pain. I am glad you can't remove systemd from your computer.
On a second thought, I'll help you remove systemd from your computer. Simply open a terminal and execute this command as root:
rm -rf /
51 • PCLinuxOS and GrUB2 (by Fairly Reticent on 2014-11-12 16:42:21 GMT from United States)
PCLinuxOS does roll, slowly and deliberately. GrUB-Legacy's days are numbered, though it's been the default for some time. The September 2014 issue of their monthly magazine included an article introducing GrUB2, which is included in their repositories and system-settings Control Center.
The installer may not be up to speed yet; it's possible but complicated to set up with GPT, grub2-efi, etc.
52 • troll 50 (by Somewhat Reticent on 2014-11-12 16:48:40 GMT from United States)
With that attitude, it's amazing you're not using a proprietary system.
Clearly it's easy for a corporate sponsor to fund a coup; that doesn't make it right.
53 • re troll @ 52 (by cornelius on 2014-11-12 17:05:24 GMT from Canada)
What attitude? I didn't have any attitude until i read troll after troll bitching about systemd. I am not amazed you are amazed, I didn't expect you to understand my point.
Corporate sponsor funding a coup? Wow, that's deep. That's deep astro turfing. So the Debian team of developers voted to use systemd because they had a hidden agenda. Call Superman, he's your last hope.
54 • GPT <> EFI (by Carlos on 2014-11-12 17:26:41 GMT from Portugal)
@51: forget about EFI, I don't care about it.
GPT partitions exist much before EFI, I'm using them for many years.
Any Linux distro that doesn't recognize GPT partitions looks severely dated to me.
Seriously, I'd love to install and use PCLinuxOS but I just can't. And I've been waiting for years...
55 • @ 50 and 53 (by Barnabyh on 2014-11-12 19:51:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, people chose FREELY to use Debian, in the vast majority of cases that decision was made before systemd and because people have been very invested in and loyal to the Debian distribution.
If it's not possible to run the upcoming release without it due to dependencies -at last look networkmanager, policykit and udisks showed as broken packages as soon as I removed systemd- people can and will also FREELY choose to move to something else. Thankfully there are still some distributions out there that do not hop on the latest bandwaggon and respect users choice and KISS.
Myself, I'm very tempted by OpenBSD now, as well as returning to a Slackware base. OTOH, Debian users will still be able to run Wheezy with backports for many years to come if they want to stick to what they're comfortable with AND have recent aoftware updates.
56 • @41 rolling release test (by Ron on 2014-11-12 22:53:58 GMT from United States)
I agree, more time needed for a good test.
"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
57 • What kind of shmuck (by Ron on 2014-11-12 23:02:02 GMT from United States)
would tell someone to use rm -rf / without clarifying its result?
58 • Distro keywords in notifications please? (by gregzeng on 2014-11-12 23:03:18 GMT from Australia)
Distrowatch is run by distro-watchers, which most of us are not. We are users, knowing not much about the 700+ distros. Often we use SOME of the DW keywords, in the DW-search menus:
OS Type, Based on (there are 4 Debian-types; some distros use a selection of three); Desktop interface (some distros use a selection); Architecture (confusion here, since some publishers use "AMD-64", "INTEL-64", so Atom CPU is which?).
"Country of origin" keyword is only of value if the distro refuses to use the one-&-only-one" international language of planet-Earth, 2014. DW is ok with DW-specialists, but unfortunately most of us on the internet consciously or consciously value key words, especially those used in a art of DW search tool.
59 • Good distros (by Merry Sismas on 2014-11-13 02:40:41 GMT from Australia)
OpenMandriva: good control centre, system services list, and firewall. Shows what you can do when you roll with the systemd changes.
Antergos: once you set your passwords, it's more secure against hacking than Qubes, and better for surfing the net than TAILS or JonDo. Keeps the Arch philosphy of proper coding and nothing beats that for simple efficiency and security. The Arch devs seem to have the best inside knowledge for coding an OS.
60 • @57 I thought it was funny (by cykodrone on 2014-11-13 04:00:57 GMT from Canada)
What kind of schmuck would execute such a command without researching it first?
Is it even laid out properly?
rm (remove) -r (recursive, aka everything) -f (force) / (the root directory)
But I do agree, the OP resembles a feminine hygiene product espousing to be an experience or result similar to a midsummer evening, lol.
61 • re 55, 57 and 60 (by cornelius on 2014-11-13 13:34:52 GMT from Canada)
@ Barnabyh: I am glad there are Linux users with attitudes like yours, way better than Mirix's. Although I don't think this is the best attitude, as I'll explain later. Anyway, good luck in your search for the best solution.
@cykodrone: It was meant to be funny and annoying in the same time. I am curious about the feminine hygiene product. Can you detail that a little bit? And by OP did you mean Mirix or I?
@Ron: Even if I know your question is rhetorical, I'll answer it. You make a good point and in general I have to agree with you. But let's look at the context. We have here a user so versed with Unix and command line and such stuff, that he obviously knows what that command would do to his hard drive. And if he doesn't have a clue, and yet, he slams people's work like that, then I guess he deserves to learn more the hard way.
Some other thoughts: We all know Linus is not the kind of person that pulls punches when he thinks something is not right about Linux. Remember how he blasted the Gnome developers and Nvidia and a key (or Kay?) systemd developer? And yet when Linus was asked whether he is for or against systemd he said he is neutral and he doesn't care how Linux gets booted. I think that is the best attitude regarding systemd. If he had anything to say against systemd, I am sure he would've said it right there. People like Minix strike me as more catholic than the Pope himself.
Remember a while ago when Mono threatened to become a dependency of Gnome because Tomboy was the default note taking application and it was written in C#? Well, some developer quickly ported Tomboy to C++ and GNote replaced Tomboy, and the Mono threat suddenly disappeared. I have absolutely no doubt that if systemd is so flawed like some people here suggest, then there will be a fork that will make things right (and I will gladly switch to using that software if it is better than systemd). But so far systemd has worked great for me and my computer boots way faster than before.
62 • correction (by cornelius on 2014-11-13 13:44:00 GMT from Canada)
"Minix" should read "Mirix" obviously :-)
63 • Boot Time (by Jeremy Justus on 2014-11-13 17:16:08 GMT from United States)
Is boot time still important for people? My laptop reboots once per week at most; even if it had a boot time of half an hour, it would still be a complete non-issue.
64 • @61 The 'command', etc (by cykodrone on 2014-11-13 17:23:31 GMT from Canada)
It was also a joke directed at the original poster (OP) of the command. N00bs do come here and read these comments, I would either hazard a guess a few tried the command, it was kind of mean but funny to those (some) of us who know better.
No real harm intended, as was posting that command (I'm guessing). ;)
Use a search engine for more info on "Summer's Eve". In particular, the one intended to flush a certain female body cavity, lol.
65 • Debian & systemd (by Mirix on 2014-11-13 18:27:51 GMT from Belgium)
Just two things: My e-mail is real, who is the troll.
And, yes, I consider systemd to be a trojan horse because when the Debian developers decided to use it as the default init system (even if it is not just an init system, but the foundations of a full OS) they said that there was no reason to worry, that anyone would be able to switch to the init system of their liking.
As things stand now, this was a lie. Right now systemd is an essential component of Testing and Unstable, which cannot be neither removed nor disabled.
I want my freedom back and if Debian does not allow for that freedom, it will be time to switch to a really free OS.
66 • systemd (by Pogo on 2014-11-13 18:42:36 GMT from United States)
Just for those wondering:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
But you know, I have been under the belief that the freedom part of linux
had to do with the choices out there (along with the big freedoms of most
of the distros being free/donate, and the other one of whether or not the
stuff can be altered by anybody).
Can those end users against systemd alter it to their liking in a given distro?
I don't know. All who read in here are not that savvy.
Trying though.. at times. ;)
Best,
Pogo
67 • re 65 (by cornelius on 2014-11-13 19:04:00 GMT from Canada)
@Mirix: OK, fine, I admit. I am the troll and you are the victim. You seem interested in my e-mail so I have sent you an e-mail. Now you have it.
Someone argued on this board a while ago that the great thing about community driven distros versus corporation driven distros was that community driven distros listen to their community and their decisions benefit the community and not the parent corporation.
Could it be that the majority of the Debian community either does not care about having options or loves systemd so much that any other option is considered useless?
68 • systemd in DebIan (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2014-11-13 20:59:44 GMT from United States)
The community was not consulted - a few (RedHat employees?) packagers (calling themselves "developers"?) turned a tie-breaking committee into an oligarchy.
But they insist "It's for your own good. Really!".
69 • re 68 (by cornelius on 2014-11-13 21:17:06 GMT from Canada)
Reheheheally? What the Hell have RedHat employees to do with this? Do they make rpms for Debian? And now RedHat owns Debian? Care to post a link about this? Because if you just spread stupid rumors, with all due respect, I'll have to call you a despicable piece of shit.
70 • bored with systemd (by bored v bored on 2014-11-13 23:52:14 GMT from Australia)
I think dino is referring to the red hat developers of systemd and why they developed it for our "benefit". Dino is a nice person - just a little stubborn and antiauthoritarian, like most ravenous dinos.
71 • The Case for the /usr Merge (by gregzeng on 2014-11-14 09:16:53 GMT from Australia)
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/
discusses reasons for-against, myths-truths why Linux is slowly imitating Solaris Unix. When I looked at Android 4.2, I could not follow their arguments (using registered Solid Explorer).
Chakra Linux 2014.11 (Arch-based) is following Fedora into this structural changes now, with it newest release. I am wondering which other distros have done this already, & which are not ever going to do this "follow-the-leader" chase. As a GUI user, sometimes I wonder if I ever will be forced to know Linux any deeper. Since its foundations are changing, his means that many tutorials & instructional stuff will be now out of date.
72 • fozzoil dinosaur (by wolf on 2014-11-14 10:14:36 GMT from Germany)
"Dino is a nice person - just a little stubborn and antiauthoritarian, like most ravenous dinos"
Most Dinosaurs have been so stubborn and antiauthoritarian they only accepted asteroid strikes from heaven as an authority which took them down completely so they fossilized and nowadays fill the tank of my car ;)
let's just hope he learns the difference between red hat and debian before the next meteor strike wipes us from this earth. Cause when you're wrong you're just wrong.....
And btw there always is the freedom to chose and if your choice turns out bad just make another one... Life is always learning and adapting to new situations but when you always look at your life in a rear view mirror you will only get disappointed by the things you "lost" instead of embracing the new possibilities
Just sad
73 • re 68, 70 (by cornelius on 2014-11-14 13:42:27 GMT from Canada)
@bored: Maybe you are right. Maybe I went too far so I'll apologize. Fossilizing Dinosaur's post just seemed to be one of those oh-no-the-evil-corporations-are-screwing-again-our-beautiful-community-distros type of comment. Or maybe it is a the-gullible-Debian-developers-got-tricked-by-the-sleazy-RedHat-developers type of comment. Not sure.
Anyway as this discussion is winding down, I am also getting tired fighting all the paranoia and conspiracy theories on this board. I'll just go in chmod 466 and I am sure y'all won't miss me :) And don't worry, I'll make sure the door won't hit me on my way out.
Keep your head in the ice...
74 • re 63 and 72 boot time is important to me (by cornelius on 2014-11-14 13:56:54 GMT from Canada)
I just realized I forgot to reply to Jeremy Justus:
Maybe for laptops the boot time is not important. But laptops are too cute for my taste. I am old school, I prefer desktops because it is easier to repair them and reuse their components. So I boot and shut down two desktops every day (one at work and one at home), so yes boot time is important to me.
And @Wolf: Thank you for your support.
75 • 'real email' (by cykodrone on 2014-11-14 17:12:18 GMT from Canada)
I have to laugh at people claiming a 'webmail' (gmail, yahoo, etc) is 'real email', umm, no, it's sock-puppet dejour email. A 'real' email is ISP based or from one's website domain.
Anybody with a PC, laptop, tablet, smartphone (form 'borrowed' wifi, no ISP required), even a game console, can create a 'webmail'. If a webmail asks for my cell number, I don't use it, that simple.
People have created webmail accounts and social network accounts based on their pets, those same pets were then solicited for many things, including invitations to accept credit cards.
So the next time somebody tells you their webmail is 'real', laugh in their face. Just sayin.
76 • RE: 74 aka Gettin' Cute (by Landor on 2014-11-17 00:44:13 GMT from Canada)
I happen to have numerous boxen and laptops/netbooks and currently use a laptop as a personal PC thanks to the intelligent use of a usb hub and a LCD monitor. I find it far more convenient than a desktop, easily reusable, and extremely cost efficient, especially in the power usage department.
Cute? Funny term, no? Do you use Mint by chance?
Also, boot times are extremely important to me.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
77 • RE: 55 - Barnaby (by Landor on 2014-11-17 00:57:08 GMT from Canada)
You know, that's funny. In a lot of ways we think along the same lines as you know. I've always been a strong advocate of OpenBSD, and cut my teeth on UNIX and BSD before most people here started to get over their fears of the unknown and plugged in their "puters". That said, because of a lot of changes in distributions, changes in the community, and to be honest, the community itself, I've been seriously considering going to OpenBSD full-time. I'm probably going to very soon. It's not surprising at all that you're considering the smart move as well.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
Number of Comments: 77
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| • Issue 1033 (2023-08-21): MiniOS 20230606, system user accounts, how Red Hat clones are moving forward, Haiku improves WINE performance, Debian turns 30 |
| • Issue 1032 (2023-08-14): MX Linux 23, positioning new windows on the desktop, Linux Containers adopts LXD fork, Oracle, SUSE, and CIQ form OpenELA |
| • Issue 1031 (2023-08-07): Peppermint OS 2023-07-01, preventing a file from being changed, Asahi Linux partners with Fedora, Linux Mint plans new releases |
| • Issue 1030 (2023-07-31): Solus 4.4, Linux Mint 21.2, Debian introduces RISC-V support, Ubuntu patches custom kernel bugs, FreeBSD imports OpenSSL 3 |
| • Issue 1029 (2023-07-24): Running Murena on the Fairphone 4, Flatpak vs Snap sandboxing technologies, Redox OS plans to borrow Linux drivers to expand hardware support, Debian updates Bookworm media |
| • Issue 1028 (2023-07-17): KDE Connect; Oracle, SUSE, and AlmaLinux repsond to Red Hat's source code policy change, KaOS issues media fix, Slackware turns 30; security and immutable distributions |
| • Issue 1027 (2023-07-10): Crystal Linux 2023-03-16, StartOS (embassyOS 0.3.4.2), changing options on a mounted filesystem, Murena launches Fairphone 4 in North America, Fedora debates telemetry for desktop team |
| • Issue 1026 (2023-07-03): Kumander Linux 1.0, Red Hat changing its approach to sharing source code, TrueNAS offers SMB Multichannel, Zorin OS introduces upgrade utility |
| • Issue 1025 (2023-06-26): KaOS with Plasma 6, information which can leak from desktop environments, Red Hat closes door on sharing RHEL source code, SUSE introduces new security features |
| • Issue 1024 (2023-06-19): Debian 12, a safer way to use dd, Debian releases GNU/Hurd 2023, Ubuntu 22.10 nears its end of life, FreeBSD turns 30 |
| • Issue 1023 (2023-06-12): openSUSE 15.5 Leap, the differences between independent distributions, openSUSE lengthens Leap life, Murena offers new phone for North America |
| • Issue 1022 (2023-06-05): GetFreeOS 2023.05.01, Slint 15.0-3, Liya N4Si, cleaning up crowded directories, Ubuntu plans Snap-based variant, Red Hat dropping LireOffice RPM packages |
| • Issue 1021 (2023-05-29): rlxos GNU/Linux, colours in command line output, an overview of Void's unique features, how to use awk, Microsoft publishes a Linux distro |
| • Issue 1020 (2023-05-22): UBports 20.04, finding another machine's IP address, finding distros with a specific kernel, Debian prepares for Bookworm |
| • Issue 1019 (2023-05-15): Rhino Linux (Beta), checking which applications reply on a package, NethServer reborn, System76 improving application responsiveness |
| • Issue 1018 (2023-05-08): Fedora 38, finding relevant manual pages, merging audio files, Fedora plans new immutable edition, Mint works to fix Secure Boot issues |
| • Issue 1017 (2023-05-01): Xubuntu 23.04, Debian elects Project Leaders and updates media, systemd to speed up restarts, Guix System offering ground-up source builds, where package managers install files |
| • Issue 1016 (2023-04-24): Qubes OS 4.1.2, tracking bandwidth usage, Solus resuming development, FreeBSD publishes status report, KaOS offers preview of Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1015 (2023-04-17): Manjaro Linux 22.0, Trisquel GNU/Linux 11.0, Arch Linux powering PINE64 tablets, Ubuntu offering live patching on HWE kernels, gaining compression on ex4 |
| • Issue 1014 (2023-04-10): Quick looks at carbonOS, LibreELEC, and Kodi, Mint polishes themes, Fedora rolls out more encryption plans, elementary OS improves sideloading experience |
| • Issue 1013 (2023-04-03): Alpine Linux 3.17.2, printing manual pages, Ubuntu Cinnamon becomes official flavour, Endeavour OS plans for new installer, HardenedBSD plans for outage |
| • Issue 1012 (2023-03-27): siduction 22.1.1, protecting privacy from proprietary applications, GNOME team shares new features, Canonical updates Ubuntu 20.04, politics and the Linux kernel |
| • Issue 1011 (2023-03-20): Serpent OS, Security Onion 2.3, Gentoo Live, replacing the scp utility, openSUSE sees surge in downloads, Debian runs elction with one candidate |
| • Issue 1010 (2023-03-13): blendOS 2023.01.26, keeping track of which files a package installs, improved network widget coming to elementary OS, Vanilla OS changes its base distro |
| • Issue 1009 (2023-03-06): Nemo Mobile and the PinePhone, matching the performance of one distro on another, Linux Mint adds performance boosts and security, custom Ubuntu and Debian builds through Cubic |
| • Issue 1008 (2023-02-27): elementary OS 7.0, the benefits of boot environments, Purism offers lapdock for Librem 5, Ubuntu community flavours directed to drop Flatpak support for Snap |
| • Issue 1007 (2023-02-20): helloSystem 0.8.0, underrated distributions, Solus team working to repair their website, SUSE testing Micro edition, Canonical publishes real-time edition of Ubuntu 22.04 |
| • Issue 1006 (2023-02-13): Playing music with UBports on a PinePhone, quick command line and shell scripting questions, Fedora expands third-party software support, Vanilla OS adds Nix package support |
| • Issue 1005 (2023-02-06): NuTyX 22.12.0 running CDE, user identification numbers, Pop!_OS shares COSMIC progress, Mint makes keyboard and mouse options more accessible |
| • Issue 1004 (2023-01-30): OpenMandriva ROME, checking the health of a disk, Debian adopting OpenSnitch, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1003 (2023-01-23): risiOS 37, mixing package types, Fedora seeks installer feedback, Sparky offers easier persistence with USB writer |
| • Issue 1002 (2023-01-16): Vanilla OS 22.10, Nobara Project 37, verifying torrent downloads, Haiku improvements, HAMMER2 being ports to NetBSD |
| • Issue 1001 (2023-01-09): Arch Linux, Ubuntu tests new system installer, porting KDE software to OpenBSD, verifying files copied properly |
| • Issue 1000 (2023-01-02): Our favourite projects of all time, Fedora trying out unified kernel images and trying to speed up shutdowns, Slackware tests new kernel, detecting what is taking up disk space |
| • Issue 999 (2022-12-19): Favourite distributions of 2022, Fedora plans Budgie spin, UBports releasing security patches for 16.04, Haiku working on new ports |
| • Issue 998 (2022-12-12): OpenBSD 7.2, Asahi Linux enages video hardware acceleration on Apple ARM computers, Manjaro drops proprietary codecs from Mesa package |
| • Issue 997 (2022-12-05): CachyOS 221023 and AgarimOS, working with filenames which contain special characters, elementary OS team fixes delta updates, new features coming to Xfce |
| • Issue 996 (2022-11-28): Void 20221001, remotely shutting down a machine, complex aliases, Fedora tests new web-based installer, Refox OS running on real hardware |
| • Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices |
| • Issue 994 (2022-11-14): Redcore Linux 2201, changing the terminal font size, Fedora plans Phosh spin, openSUSE publishes on-line manual pages, disabling Snap auto-updates |
| • Issue 993 (2022-11-07): Static Linux, working with just a kernel, Mint streamlines Flatpak management, updates coming to elementary OS |
| • Full list of all issues |
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