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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Remote network mounting at login? (by dbrion on 2014-01-06 10:25:51 GMT from France)
"This" (mounting remote networking share) " can be done
___when you login___
by running the smbmount or mount commands." (tips and tricks):
But, if you connect USB devices, filesystem images on a file, etc.... , they can be mounted
___at any time___ (not only at login ) "sudo mount xxxx" .
Is this mounting at login specific to remote networks?
Or is it an error?
2 • network shares (by abpabp on 2014-01-06 10:26:28 GMT from United States)
Xubuntu seems not to support either method of mounting at least with windows shares
also it seems smbmount is not included in Ubuntu and its derivatives has anyone here found a way of doing this in said distro;s ?
3 • Parted Magic (by Far Traveler on 2014-01-06 10:35:53 GMT from United States)
When did it go commercial and why?
4 • Parted Magic (by Chris Whelan on 2014-01-06 12:02:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ No 3
Parted Magic has not been a free download since August 2013. It has a sole developer, and was partially donation-funded, but the developer and his wife lost their jobs. Consequently, the small charge gives him an income, and he has more time for development.
In my opinion, it's a very small price to pay for such a useful collection of utilities. In fact, I've just purchased the newest release and recommend to others.
5 • re: #3, #4 - Wonder how that works? (by brad on 2014-01-06 12:08:54 GMT from United States)
I mean is it like windows, that "version" (newest) gets updates for so long, then you pay for a new version? Or do you pay this one time and get a code etc to get the new versions.. since we all know many Linux distros update frequently?
6 • Parted Magic Donations (by DWW_reader on 2014-01-06 12:30:45 GMT from Luxembourg)
The money earned by Parted Magic is also a benefit for other open source projects:
http://forums.partedmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64
7 • Siduction (by Paraquat on 2014-01-06 12:54:16 GMT from Taiwan)
One of my New Year's resolutions was to download and install Siduction. But now I see the announcement that they've incorporated Systemd into it as the default init system. Well, that's not welcome news (for me), and for now I'll pass.
I have several reasons for saying that, a big one being that Debian developers have not yet decided that they will go with Systemd. There is much heated discussion at present between going with Systemd, or with Ubuntu's Upstart in future releases. Some users would rather leave the init system as it is, while others are lobbying for Gentoo's OpenRC. I have made up my mind which is best, but I am leery of the complexity of Systemd. Anyway, I think I'll wait for Debian's developers to decide and not jump the gun.
So I guess if I want to try Debian Unstable, I'll just download it and not bother with the Siduction spin.
8 • server review (by David Smith on 2014-01-06 13:43:03 GMT from Canada)
Have to say I'm as surprised as Jesse by the reader selections for review. I going to go out on a limb here and guess a) it was not a particularly large sample, and b) preponderance of linux/server n00bs who were seduced by the names "Suburb Mini" and "SME". Without commenting on the quality of the reviewed server distros (neither of which I've tried), I think it's important for folks to understand the importance of the organization behind your platform of choice. The larger distros (e.g. RHEL-based Cent-OS and Scientific, and Ubuntu) that are in fact the choice of most experienced admins (going by installed numbers), are generally going to have much better support and documentation -- things which are make-or-break in the world o' distro's more so than, say, a beguiling name -- and you are better off investing your time learning one of these, which are far more likely to still be around a few years hence. Furthermore you will gain a more marketable skill set (and overall 'cred'), if that is at all a consideration.
9 • XStreamOS (by Dave Postles on 2014-01-06 13:57:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
It looks v. interesting on the Sourceforge webpage. I'm downloading it now to try. Does anyone have any comments about it?
10 • samba mounts (by dolphin_oracle on 2014-01-06 14:25:04 GMT from United States)
you should be able to mount your share anytime, not just at boot.
AntiX (debian based) uses a custom connectshares script that allows mounting of network shares anytime. Its utilizes the mount command to perform the connection. In my mind, having your share mounted this way is a boon, because the system simply treats the mounted share as just another directory. and mounted this way, the shares are accessible from any interface.
virtual filesystems (gvfs, etc...) make us forget how to do these things sometimes.
11 • @8 server review (by David Smith) (by greg on 2014-01-06 14:50:23 GMT from Slovenia)
it was not server review it was HOME server review and it is not surprising that people voted an easy to use solution for small companies/home. something anyone with little bit of IT knowledge could configure. something with sane defaults etc... GUI makes OS easy to use. just look at the number of people on iOS and android. my 2 yo can use those. not so much debian as he doesn't know how to read&write...
so yes, us home users like things that are simple to setup (clickign 4 times next is easy) and do what they are ment to and are stable (no crashes etc). its the same reason why Ubuntu & Mint are popular choice for beginners (i mean just compare Ubuntu and Debian upgrade process...).
12 • @8 David Smith: (by dragonmouth on 2014-01-06 15:17:43 GMT from United States)
You sound just like a Windows user who does not want to try Linux because there is no "organization" or "comapny" to provide support. :-)
You and I both know that support does not need to wear a corporate logo. In fact support from individuals may be better and more in-depth than that from corporations since corporate support tends to take cook-book or a Chinese menu approach.
13 • @12 : Are Chinese menus that bad? (by dbrion on 2014-01-06 15:21:16 GMT from France)
@dragonmouth:
Do Centos/Scientific servers take cook-book/Chinese menu approaches?
14 • Re: 1 (by hobbitland on 2014-01-06 15:38:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
You can also mount securely using "sshfs"
sshfs user@hostname:/path -o reconnect mountpoint
15 • RE (by :wq on 2014-01-06 15:51:31 GMT from United States)
@5 "...is it like windows, that "version" (newest) gets updates for so long, then you pay for a new version? Or do you pay this one time and get a code etc to get the new versions.."
$4.99 USD for the current version (for use "on any number of computers"). $49.99 USD for a one-year subscription.
@7 "Some users would rather leave the init system as it is..."
I think that is the least likely outcome.
@8 "Have to say I'm as surprised as Jesse by the reader selections for review."
I mistakenly assumed Debian, CentOS, Ubuntu, and Slackware were shoo-ins since Jesse had already mentioned them in DWW #537, so I didn't bother affirming any of those selections, as I took them for granted. That being said, light being shed on (with the exception of openSUSE) lesser-reviewed distributions isn't necessarily a bad thing. I realize that Jesse doesn't have time to review server-oriented distributions en masse, and he has to make a judgment call as to which ones to spotlight.
@9 XSteamOS
As per your initial findings, how does it compare to other Illumos-based distributions that have a similar focus, such as OI, OpenSXCE, and Tribblix?
16 • Home Linux computer and Home Server arrives in a box...ready to go. (by Stephen Douglas on 2014-01-06 16:04:10 GMT from United States)
I am non technical. I just want things to work. I would be tempted to buy a complete system that arrived in a box. Take it out and connect it all together. The software has already been configured for the home server to be a part of the network. Something like that might sell. That is how I tend to look at it. I am 71 yrs old and no longer want to work with a lot of detail technical knowledge in setting up a system because later on I will have forgotten most of it by the time I have to upgrade the system. Best of all wouldn't be nice to have a Linux tech living in my building. So, you might think I am a candidate for something like Dropbox, but I do not like the idea of someone else holding my data. I hope in the future the home network with server becomes standard appliance.
17 • sms boot (by notsure on 2014-01-06 16:09:39 GMT from United States)
I dunno, but i think a /boot partition of say 128mb formatted as ext2 would have allowed for the sms to boot. i don't use btrfs, just guessing.
18 • ZFS, Btrfs and webmin (by Scott Dowdle on 2014-01-06 17:01:04 GMT from United States)
To the best of my knowledge LILO doesn't understand Btrfs so I'm guessing that's why it failed to boot with Btrfs as the / filesystem. Maybe having a separate /boot that isn't Btrfs would have made it work?!?
Regarding ZFS on Linux goes... to the best of my knowledge... you won't find any distro that ships it. The obvious reason is that ZFS' license conflicts with the GPL and they can't be distributed together without license violation. What everyone who uses ZFS on Linux does is follow the instructions on the zfsonlinux.org site. They have pre-built packages for a number of distributions and it is fairly easy to get going.
Btrfs is mostly a function of the kernel version and of course the btrfs-progs a distro provides. For any of the more advanced features of Btrfs (RAID, compression, etc) a 3.9 or newer kernel is recommended... and that would leave out a number of distributions. OpenSUSE and SLES stand out I believe because they offer a wrapper that encapsulates the snapshot feature named snapper... but I don't think they recommend using Btrfs RAID in production.
Regarding Webmin... while it is nice that some distros (like SMS) ship with it by default, it can usually be added fairly easily after the fact by those who want it from packages provided by the webmin.com website.
19 • @8 (by Thom on 2014-01-06 17:03:31 GMT from Sweden)
You do make some very valid points and you are of course right -within the context of your arguments - whether other posters agree or not.
That said, I think you forget one important issue: The readers of DW are the ones whose voices should be heard. If the flock wants to see the less well known server distros, then give them the less well known server distros. Those that bothered to let their views be known get to influence the outcome.
Besides, those big famous server distros are sure to get loads of editorial coverage in the mainstream media and the attention of publishers, so it would make good sense for DW to feature those smaller, less public servers - particularly if the readers want it.
20 • SolydK (by GNUday on 2014-01-06 17:09:08 GMT from Canada)
I was using KDE+Debian testing but I found it way too much work and hassle (and somewhat buggy), I just wanted a clean, pretty and functional system without hours of fix/configure web searches, I found SolydK using the DW distro search (NOT Ubuntu, based on Debian, Desktop, KDE, etc) and up popped this beautiful distro among others. There are complaints it's not that pretty out of the box (flashy custom wallpaper), but who doesn't know how to right click a desktop and change the wallpaper?! Go in to system settings and turn on some GUI candy. It's aimed at a wide audience, which is good because this distro is ready for 'prime-time' IMHO. I will be definitely making a financial donation as encouragement to keep the distro active and maintain support.
Just a heads up, as with most Debian based distros, the proprietary video chip driver blob was somewhat buggy, this distro works great out of the box with nouveau so I switched back to nouveau, see their forum (Newbie Questions) for howto.
21 • @20 • SolydK (by Hollandhook on 2014-01-06 17:31:32 GMT from Mexico)
Yes, I think so, too. The distro started out in the Linux Mint community. The guy who developed what became SolydK and SolydX, who was known as Schoelje back then, did great work with it from the beginning.
22 • ZFS on Linux (by Jesse on 2014-01-06 17:46:58 GMT from Canada)
>> "Regarding ZFS on Linux goes... to the best of my knowledge... you won't find any distro that ships it. "
Zentyal has ZFS support in the default repositories.
>> "The obvious reason is that ZFS' license conflicts with the GPL and they can't be distributed together without license violation. "
That is not correct. The ZFS cannot be merged with a GPL project, such as the kernel. There is nothing preventing ZFS from being shipped as a module or being present in the repositories so long as it is shipped as a separate package. In a similar fashion, there is nothing preventing Linux distributions from shipping with proprietary blobs or applications, so long as those components are not merged with GPLed software. This is a common misunderstanding of how the software licensing works.
23 • DMDc (by Ray on 2014-01-06 18:29:50 GMT from United States)
For those of us who liked gnome 2, I must say I am happy to see more distro's adopting the MATE desktop environment. I will be testing DMDc on a vbox later :)
24 • @23 DMDc (by Rev_Don on 2014-01-06 18:32:32 GMT from United States)
You got that right. I'm hoping to find somewhere to download it (por internet connection and low bandwidth cap here)..
25 • @ 18, 22 -- ZFS on Linux (by Ralph on 2014-01-06 18:39:59 GMT from Canada)
Does not Sabayon also have ZFS support in its repos?
26 • @23 @24 (by jaws222 on 2014-01-06 18:40:11 GMT from United States)
If you like MATE try Point LInux. Even Compiz works like it did back in the day oln Gnome2. The distro is really fast too.
27 • home server distro reviews (by Pearson on 2014-01-06 19:42:41 GMT from United States)
I'm actually looking forward to this series of "unexpected" distros for home and small office servers. I don't know if the votes reflect a shift in what users are looking for, or a reflection of voters "assuming" the main servers would already be there. But, this will be a different take and so useful and interesting. Given today's technology, I can understand wanting a more "hands off" approach to small servers.
I was kinda surprised at the results of SMS. For some reason, I guess because it's derived from Slackware, I didn't expect the CPU usage to be as high.
28 • server reviews @12 (by David Smith on 2014-01-06 19:58:08 GMT from Canada)
No, I have been using linux and running linux servers for about ten years, and during that time I have tried a number of obscure distros. The importance is not in the company (or organization) -provided support (which is usually irrelevant, unless you're paying for it), but the installed base of users that makes for an active community who have probably encountered every bug, every problematic piece of hardware and made every mistake in the book.
That's the real value in sticking with one of the large distros. As Jesse can well attest, the smaller distros have a tendency of falling by the wayside, as developers move on to other projects or commitments, leaving the user base orphaned as far as further updates and compatibility with new hardware and software.
If you're going to go to the trouble of getting one of these things up and running, you might as well learn it on something that's built solid, is well-tested, and is going to be around for a while.
29 • Home Server (by More Gee on 2014-01-06 21:03:40 GMT from United States)
I use SMS and I agree with #16 the command line stops me not because I can't do it but the commands are used so rarely that you never get them all right the first time in the correct sequence when you install. One parm wrong and you have to start over. How hard is to provide a batch file that runs through the steps and lets you bypass a mail server install for instance. Even Puppy will give you a batch file to help you with the command line. This goes for Arch as well, I don't know how many times I've accidentally entered a Ubuntu or Debian command parameter and had to start over. I'm also seeing a lot of limited shell dropping on boot just because it can't get to the internet and doesn't bother to prompt me for it.
I use SMS at home currently running on 4gb Microdrive in a IDE tray (bit tight). The data and web page is on a SATA drive and does get slow when more than one computer is using the webmin and the LAMP server. The other issue is that webmin requires Java for some functions and webpages created with Bluefish also need Java. I also still haven't got Wordpress and the system databases to run on SATA data drive. I 'm worried manually move the databases will break Webmin and Phpmyadmin. Other than that I'm very happy with SMS. Also when you upgrade SMS you can restore your settings from a Backup, so you don't have to get everything back the way it was again.
BTW #8 is not a representative of a Distrowatch reader. It should not take this long to create a server let alone a Home server, I've got better things to do.
30 • @22 Thanks for the correction (by Scott Dowdle on 2014-01-06 21:05:31 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the correction. I'm still confused though. If just having zfs support in separate packages makes it all ok... does that mean that one is free to ship it with a distro, pre-installed and enabled by default?
If not, what exactly are the limitations?
31 • ZFS (by Jesse on 2014-01-06 22:32:39 GMT from Canada)
>> "If just having zfs support in separate packages makes it all ok... does that mean that one is free to ship it with a distro, pre-installed and enabled by default?"
Yes, that is right. ZFS's license prevents the code from being merged in with a GPL'ed project, but you can bundle ZFS modules or ZFS-FUSE with a distribution. So you can't, for example, get the ZFS code commited to the mainline Linux kernel, but you can build Linux modules from the ZFS code and ship them alongside the kernel binary (in a separate package). The ZFS on Linux project has some good information on licensing if you'd like to explore the topic further.
32 • systemd (by Jeff on 2014-01-06 23:41:47 GMT from United States)
At this point if forced to choose, I would prefer systemd over upstart in Debian, if those were to be the only options.
I find myself worried by the number of Canonical employees on the committee, what are they likely to choose knowing where their paycheck comes from ?
The copyrights and developer agreement with upstart could cause Debian to become a subsidiary of Canonical.
I guess I am just hoping for something better to come along in time.
33 • EEE - MS pump and dump (by MS pump and dump on 2014-01-07 03:49:21 GMT from United States)
"The copyrights and developer agreement with upstart could cause Debian to become a subsidiary of Canonical."
Then MS buys Canonical.
34 • ZFS and distros (by Scott Dowdle on 2014-01-07 05:01:18 GMT from United States)
@31 - Jesse, again... thanks for the clarification. I had actually read the info on the zfsonlinux.org website but had misunderstood it. So I guess the reason the vast majority of Linux distros have not adopted those ZFS packages is because they don't want to, not because they can't. Or perhaps more distros will begin to pick them up over time.
All distros ship a variety of free software... using a lot of different licenses under which I'm sure ZFS' CDDL would be welcome. Some distros also ship non-free software. Most don't ship proprietary drivers that taint the kernel. zfs is free software that taints the kernel. I guess that is why some distros don't ship it? Oddly most distros seem to have the zfs-fuse stuff. What is different about the two that makes one more popular in distros than the other? It certainly isn't your responsibility to explain this to me... but it is very confusing.
I don't envy your task of comparing a lot of server distros but I do appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work.
35 • Re: Maui project (by silent on 2014-01-07 11:28:22 GMT from France)
After reading the article here I installed Hawaii from the third party binary repository for Arch Linux on a PC with integrated Intel video card. At first glance the desktop is clean, the swordfish file manager looks nice. The built in menu is strange, the applications are shown in a grid with several pages in an apparently random order without categories. Within few minutes after starting the desktop environment, the mouse pointer has simply disappeared.Once I managed the start the QupZilla browser, but most of the time it has crashed immediately. For me Hawaii was an interesting technology preview. On the other hand, I cannot but agree to the statement at the project site that "it's not currently considered as stable as other operating systems".
36 • Virtualization (by sasha on 2014-01-07 13:43:42 GMT from Finland)
If possible, I'd like to read more about your experiences of using other virtual machine software (VMWare Player, etc.) for testing some of the distros. I've been using VirtualBox for 3 years and like it, but it frequently crashes so I've stopped using it...
37 • ZFS and ZFS-FUSE (by Jesse on 2014-01-07 15:14:50 GMT from Canada)
>> "Oddly most distros seem to have the zfs-fuse stuff. What is different about the two that makes one more popular in distros than the other?"
I think the big difference is that a ZFS kernel module may need to be upgraded at the same time as the kernel. Since the module and the kernel itself are two different packages this could, potentially, result in breakage. Have you ever had a video driver break due to a kernel upgrade? Distributions shipping a ZFS face the same potential problem. It requires some QA to make sure ZFS modules continue to work across upgrades.
Another reason is a lot of people misunderstand the licensing issue and don't want to touch ZFS as a result.
ZFS-FUSE avoids upgrade problems by living in userspace. This makes the driver slightly slower, but it nicely side-steps compatibility problems and further avoids any licensing concerns.
38 • tarring large archives (with pipes, split and a cat) (by dbrion on 2014-01-07 16:48:56 GMT from France)
I used another solution for large archives -I did not know tar could divide archives : split can divide -is meantt for that and can be fed with stdin) :
tar cvfz --to-stdout <directory_to_save> | split --bytes=4000M #(IIRC)
(assumes there are no files beginning with x -default option of split) where one saves; to restore:
cat x* | tar xvfz - # "-" is the name of tar's standard input.
39 • re: back to the future, err, past. (by CAI ENG on 2014-01-07 17:57:50 GMT from United States)
"Given the results of the votes I received I decided to drop my original line-up of distributions and review the following projects from the point of view of setting up a home server: SMS, SME Server, openSUSE and Zentyal."
My opinion on this subject may very well be at variance with the majority of readers, if so, please ignore my comment. No need to argue.
I disagree with the choices selected, and would sound a note of caution about relying upon "messages", or "email". I approve the original idea of testing Debian versus FreeBSD, and any other distros, as desired (Slackware, Suse come to mind)
I don't personally use any of those OS, (I prefer CrunchBang and Lubuntu) but I am thinking about converting my entire network to Linux. What is crucial, from my perspective, is simplicity of installation. I don't seek to fumble about for two months, unable to even change the font size, let alone connect a dozen devices, to communicate with one another...
In my experience, with XP, a single mouse click solves the problems. Each computer can read from any other. Each computer can send data to or from any other device. Simple, Easy. With, or without, internet connected. That's what I need.
But, now, with Linux/Unix, problem is (no intention to offend the various religions) we are moving back to the days when the top person of the congregation walked about burning incense, thinking that they were thereby removing bad humors, and promoting good health, physical and spiritual.
Linux, ever faithful to the unix ancestor, demands lots of keyboard attention, i.e. waving lots of incense about. I dislike incense, and I especially dislike typing, not simply because I am clumsy and arthritic, but also, because I am not that clever, and have trouble understanding some of the concepts, often unwritten, and unintuitive, which the keyboard types assume, incorrectly, everyone knows.
I was eagerly awaiting this review of servers from DistroWatch, because, in my opinion, this is THE topic for the linux world this year, as XP moves to the burial ground later this spring. XP may have a LOT of faults, but simplicity of use, and intuitive user interface do not number among them. There are literally millions of XP orphans out there, as poorly educated as am I.
As a starting point, I would urge Jesse to elaborate on the distinction between SMS and Slackware. Since SMS is based on Slackware, how is it different from the parent distribution, in terms of setting up a home/Small office network? Which kinds of information about the hardware is required from SMS, versus Slackware, (keeping in mind, that with XP, the user is obliged to enter NOTHING at all....) What we need, really, is a chart, showing for each distro tested, the precise data which the user must furnish, so that we can see at a glance, which distro will best serve our needs, i.e. the one that figures out the "default" setting, by itself, without requiring a rocket scientist to configure.
Cheers,
CAI ENG
40 • DMDc, Zorin 8, XP (by fernbap on 2014-01-07 19:26:24 GMT from Portugal)
I think most of XP users won't even notice that it is "dead". They will just keep using it as usual, until that computer gets out of service. Some of them will think that it is finally the time to get a new computer, which will com with 7 or 8 pre-installed.
Very few will try ways to extend their old computer's lives, by using something out of the MS universe. Those are the ones to be catered by Linux, and the current trends are not helping at all. Linux will be too "alien" for them ant they will even have trouble with support for older hardware that was meanwhile dropped frokm the Linux kernel.
Zorin: Perhaps the ONLY reason for its existence is to provide windows users with something familiar and pretty enough to convince them to give it a try, and once you try linux you will realise how much better it is.
Zorin 8 fails, imho, because it doesn't look either familiar or pretty (sorry. I know beauty is in the eyes of the beholder).
DMDc: The good
It is nice to see a MATE distro with a "modern" look, full of eye candy. DMDc shows clearly what i said all along: there is nothing Gnome 3 offers that can't be covered better by MATE+Compiz.
It is nice to finally see a distro that presente SMPlayer as the default video player, something that i would like to see for long.
It presents a modern kernel and modern apps on top of Debian stable. A winning combination.
The bad
The default desktop is not for everyone's taste. I find it too crowded and with redundant functionalities. The underuse of the panel is only justificed by the inclusion of a bar that is too crowded.
I didn't manage to install Wine. I believe this is an issue that will eventually be fixed (i hope), but so far no good.
It is considerably heavier on resources than Point Linux which presents a much more conventional look and feel. I just hope that, for now on, MATE distros divert from the default layout, as it is seriously outdated, making the distro look old.
41 • ZFS on Linux con't (by Ralph on 2014-01-07 20:00:33 GMT from Canada)
Maybe another reason ZFS support is not found in the default repos of many distros is that it has only recently been declared stable. Besides, the zfsonlinux.org site already has repos that are tailor-made for *some* specific distros. There is a ppa specific to Ubuntu. (Also, Btrfs is a competitor to ZFS and some distros (e.g. OpenSuse) might want to through their weight behind it instead.)
A critical difference with ZFS on Linux is using ZFS as a root filesystem vs merely loading the kernel module that will allow you to create, mount, read, and write to ZFS hardware storage devices on a machine that has a root filesystem other than ZFS. The former involves about 3 pages of command-line work to get going in Ubuntu, while the latter is simply a matter of adding the repo and installing the appropriate package. If you allow the kernel to be upgraded on a distro with a root ZFS filesystem there exists the possibility of toasting your *entire* system. However if something nasty happens to the ZFS module on a, say, ext4 system, I suspect the worst that can happen is that your ZFS data is inaccessible, which is admittedly bad enough, even if temporary.
42 • Home servers (by Barnabyh on 2014-01-07 20:58:28 GMT from United States)
Tried ClearOS a few weeks ago, very nice but limited web admin console. Would choose SMs again any day if I needed a home server, or a Slackware install and just adding webmin from SlackBuilds and the few services and programs that are actually needed - much lighter.
43 • The Distrowatch List (by Peter Besenbruch on 2014-01-07 22:07:37 GMT from Romania)
It's sad to see the decline of Gentoo, and interesting to see Debian leapfrog Fedora, OpenSUSE, and Mageia to attain third place. I'm not entirely sure why, as Debian Wheezy was released May 2013 with roughly the same software versions as Ubuntu 12.04. We're talking cutting edge and splashy, just what you need for the Distrowatch page hit rankings. ;)
44 • A comparison? (by cobra on 2014-01-07 22:31:41 GMT from United States)
Been doing some searching on a curiosity I have and have found a lot of geekspeak but no answer.
How does the windows and illumos kernel compare to the Linux kernel as in a number that gives me a guide to go by.
Like say the linux kernel 3.8 version. How do the other kernels compare? Using a linux number like 3.2 or 3.4. Something like that.
45 • @44 (by byku on 2014-01-07 23:59:30 GMT from Poland)
Some info is here (comparison features, probably a bit outdated):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_system_kernels
illumos is fork of Solaris.
46 • @39 CAI ENG (by dragonmouth on 2014-01-08 00:38:08 GMT from United States)
After you use Linux for the same amount of time as you have used XP, you will find Linux as easy, or even easier, to use as XP. The first day you ever used Windows did you solve all problems with just one click, or did it take you some time to learn that? Every O/S becomes simple to use once you get beyond the learning curve.
47 • I love the page hit rankings, it's entertaining (by GNUday on 2014-01-08 03:28:17 GMT from Canada)
I know they are not to be taken too seriously but it gives the distro builders incentive to put out something decent, otherwise we would be stuck in 90s like uber-geek land, lol. I have an idea for another 'benchmark', have a monetary donations rank too, the best distros attract the most money, but that too can be easily fudged like fanbois stacking the page hits deck. ;-D
48 • @ 39 • re: back to the future, err, past. (by CAI ENG) (by greg on 2014-01-08 07:05:06 GMT from Slovenia)
you want somehting you dont' have to configure, yet you want to go pure Debian? are you kidding? everything needs to be configured there. samba share? create and change config file so and so. drivers? install this package that package maybe even compile etc.
the distros mentioned here are what you are actually after. they come with easy to use user iterfaces. Zentyal is ubuntu based but has a GUI to administer the server. a few clicks and you amy have it set up for you. ClearOS is again centOS based with a nice webgui for administering it. what is going to be tested in the reviews is also ease of use etc. and as you can see reviews show certain difference between these home servers distros. you can see their web interfaces in review.
as for winxp - yes it's only a click or two. but it's only a command or two for the malware to mess it all up. ;-)
i am hoping the selection here will give us some overview over server user interfaces and these are aimed at home users that dont' want to or have the time to create it all from scratch. but ofcourse with some reading you can easilly do centOS or Debian +webmin and just be done with it.
49 • avlinux 6.02 (by linuxdog on 2014-01-08 08:50:59 GMT from United States)
I have the previous version running on another machine so i risked death and put avlinux 6.02 on my wife's Hp Touchsmart. Everything is fine, except my wireless which sees points of access but i am unable to log on to the one i have the password. cat 5 fixed that, and when we get home changing to a usb wireless will help. I can't say that I know everything about the new avlinux but what I do know is that is sees all 4 cpus, and runs very fast. I have no complaint with something I have only put a small amount of time. I do know how to do what I want for the most part and 6.02 is a very nice distro. You could not ask for a nicer person than Glen for someone to put together a audio video based linux. Thanks Glen for the upgrade!
My second choice (which for years was my first choice) is PC Linux Os.
50 • Re: AV Linux (by GNUday on 2014-01-08 13:30:12 GMT from Canada)
Only in i386? No DVD editing/authoring tools by default? Seriously? The maintainers should drop the 'V' from the name.
51 • XStreamOS (by Dave Postles on 2014-01-08 14:51:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Bearing in mind that it's still in beta, it's quite a nice development. It's nice to have a somewhat better fledged recursion of Sun's Solaris. The installation is text-based, but not demanding. The installation takes a long time, but I find that with all Unix-based OSs. The first boot was slow, no doubt because of some additional configuration. It detected my eth0 automatically - no need to fiddle with network connections. The default is a Gnome 2 desktop with a nice panel at the top and Cairo dock at the bottom. The basic applications software is installed by default: GIMP; all LibreOffice (incl. Base); vlc; FileZilla; Firefox; Thunderbird; Emacs (which I usually have to download and install); and gedit. File manager is PCMan. I haven't tried the package manager yet. There isn't much in the way of GUI configuration tools. I noticed from Sourceforge that there have been 372 downloads this week. Six users have given it 5 stars. I wouldn't be that generous, but I shall use it for a while and see what happens. I have a lingering feeling of obligation to the former Sun - it was so helpful to the community. Overall, I think that XStreamOS looks very encouraging and I look forward to more iterations.
[Legacy Toshiba Satellite C660D 64-bit with 6Gb RAM - I usually get my kit from PCSpecialist or Novatech, but I inherited this PC and use it for experimenting].
52 • SME (by aasche on 2014-01-08 14:55:13 GMT from Germany)
@Jesse:
>but I had to configure Samba manually to enable file sharing over the network
Interesting... never tried this. Maybe you missed the concept how shares are managed within SME:
1. Create users/groups as required
2. Create iBays (=shares) and set privileges
That's all :)
53 • server/page hit rankings (by U on 2014-01-08 18:49:01 GMT from Netherlands)
Anny and i mean Anny Linux distro or pure kernel can be configured as a server, just add a few packages and your up and running.
As for page hit rankings on distrowatch, this means nothing its based on wath????
I thing politically correct egg $$.
54 • @51 XStreamOS (by Anonymous Coward on 2014-01-09 02:47:08 GMT from United States)
Thanks for posting some info about XStreamOS. I saw that you had no problem with your ethernet connection.... have you tested wireless? I may give it a shot but am always leary of these new projects, because they tend to have horrible hardware support for laptops, which is all I have at home.
55 • RedHat Partnerships (by trotter1985 on 2014-01-09 03:40:22 GMT from United States)
Apologies that this is coming from a Windows 8.1 box ...
but I just read that RedHat and CentOS have announced
a partnership. Here at Georgia Tech, we run a customized
version of RedHat, spiced with some tools from PUIAS (now
Springdale), so this is big news for us. My question is whether anyone has heard of partnerships/potential partnerships
for other clones. CentOS is not of much use for
people like me who need a fully functional desktop Linux.
Over the years, I've installed dozens and dozens of
distributions, but keep coming back to the mainstream
RedHat, Fedora, Ubuntu and openSUSE. Regardless,
it would be *major* news if one of the RedHat clones
came into full partnership with RedHat, while on the
side helping you to install multimedia, codecs, non-free
software, etc. Oh joy!!
trotter1985
56 • @55 (by :wq on 2014-01-09 04:11:18 GMT from United States)
"My question is whether anyone has heard of partnerships/potential partnerships
for other clones . . . it would be *major* news if one of the RedHat clones came into full partnership with RedHat, while on the side helping you to install multimedia, codecs, non-free software, etc."
No, just CentOS. What you're seeking might be achievable via the proposed CentOS "variants" (https://www.centos.org/variants/ & http://community.redhat.com/centos-faq/#_centos_and_variants), though I kind of doubt it for proprietary or legally encumbered software.
57 • Parted Magic - good luck but I won't be paying for it (by qwerty on 2014-01-09 05:10:51 GMT from Netherlands)
"4 • Parted Magic"
Why do I need to pay for something which is solved by either using System Rescue CD, Ultimate Boot CD, or rolling my own?
58 • 55, 57 (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2014-01-09 07:48:13 GMT from United States)
55: You're from Ga.Tech, and haven't checked out the Stella remix by Nux?
Isn't LinuxTracker.org right nearby?
57: You don't _need_ to pay for a Slackware-based toolset like Exton Defender, but if you want a dedicated distro with a dedicated developer - and can tolerate a forum with an arch attitude - then look over the included toolset. Or, like you say, roll your own.
59 • 58 (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2014-01-09 07:50:08 GMT from United States)
Ambiguity not intended ... Arne's mellow.
60 • @48 (by CAI ENG on 2014-01-09 08:36:37 GMT from United States)
Thank you Greg, very helpful, I did not know about webmin:
http://www.webmin.com/
It would be interesting to learn, then, whether webmin running on Debian vs BSD vs Centos is (a) faster in execution; (b) easier to install & configure.
What one needs here, is a comparison, made by someone who is fluent, of the time needed to setup a SOHO network of say, three machines and a printer, (as a simple illustration) with webmin, versus the traditional keyboard, and then transfer times of a ten gigabyte file from one system to the other two. Obviously, such a comparison, conducted by someone like me, who has no concept of the distinction between a DNS server and PERL, (for example), would be meaningless. But, someone like you, or Jesse, could perform such a three way test, and offer some actual performance data, instead of mere platitudes..."With Debian, the network installed by keyboard in 37 minutes on all three machines, vs. 26 minutes using webmin. Those times were three minutes shorter with Centos, and three minutes longer with BSD.", or something comparable....."The same task with XP required 14 minutes, with 8.1 six minutes 40 seconds." or something comparable...."The three files transferred in two minutes ten seconds under BSD, four minutes forty seconds under Debian, and thirteen minutes with 32 bit XP, 1min ten seconds running 8.1, on three machines with H87 Haswell motherboards and 3GHz core i5 cpus with 8 GB RAM."
That's the sort of information, if conducted by someone who could setup a network by keyboard in his/her sleep, that will propel Linux, and DistroWatch, to the head of the class...
61 • @60 & speed (by greg on 2014-01-09 11:50:53 GMT from Slovenia)
i think file transfer speeds don't have much to do with OS but more with hardware. and linux are often used as internet servers so you can be sure file transfer differences are really not bit if any at all.
as for setup time i think this is ease of use and it is important to get a general idea in review how things are done (which is what happens here in reviews usually). is installing an applicaiton as easy as 3 words in command line or does it require you to go through 10 manual pages, setting up config files etc. is most stuff preinstalled and just needs to be enabled with a click (perhaps even already enabled) or is extra configuration necessary.
some easy servers are found at TurnKeyLinux. you basically just extract the file to disk and you have for example a joomla server running.
GUI in linux is basically just executing comand line parameters. it's interpretation of commands in a way that is easier to understand for some people. and most of described features are plug and play in these easy to use server distros such as the ones being reviewed now.
CLI offers more commands/flexibility that these GUI interfaces but requires a deeper knowledge of the OS and CLI interface..
62 • Server (by Ben furstenwerth on 2014-01-09 12:46:03 GMT from United States)
After years of working with Linux servers ( ubuntu Debian opensuse centos) I found the ease and joy of turnkey Linux! If you want a nice lamp server just install virtualbox , VMware or other virtualization software and install the turnkey lamp appliance. Turnkey is using Debian wheezy. I set the vm to bridged mode so it can act as a standalone server. Plus if you must have a ui it comes with webmin, shell in a box, and all services for that appliance installed. Clone the vm and you have a full backup! I use sftp in my host file manager for file transfer. So there is a full ssh server already running!
I'm glad I learned and used the way I did at first, but this is a piece of cake. Oh and there are many turnkey server types besides lamp.
63 • @53 re: page hit counter (by Tom on 2014-01-09 16:05:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :)
The page hit counter, surprisingly, counts the number of times pages such as
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mint
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu
get clicked on by anyone.
Since those pages list many useful website's pages, such as the downloads page, other articles, forums, official homepage and many more then people sometimes use the DW pages rather than doing a blind google-search (or duck-duck-go or whatever). Also those pages have stats and information about the version numbers of fairly crucial packages included by default. So if you are on a distro-hopping spree or researching into which ones have Kate or whatever then they can be incredibly useful pages.
So, the page hit counter indicates "interest or curiousity about" each distro rather than being a precise measure of installs or such. Money doesn't enter into it.
Regards from
Tom :)
64 • @53 re: page hit counter (by Tom on 2014-01-09 16:19:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :)
As an example i sometimes try to help out on a User Support mailing list for an "upstream" project (ie such as Mozilla, Gimp, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, or other programs) and today just popped in here to find out where the support forums are for a specific distro.
The user ran into a problem on 1 specific distro that doesn't exist on other platforms so it made sense for them to report the problem in the distros own mailing list/forums/bug-tracker and rather than googling it and potentially getting it wrong i just used the DW "back pages" to give them the correct info.
So today that distro got 1 hit from me. I keep meaning to try that particular distro but somehow never get around to it and keep using the one i'm currently using or do a little hopping at random rather than an organised hopping session.
The whole counting thing is meant to be as automated as possible with little or no human intervention at all. It would actually be more difficult to maintain it if money was a factor. Decisions would have to be made and accuracy checked blah, blah, all tooo boring!
Regards from
Tom :)
65 • XStreamOS (by Dave Postles on 2014-01-09 19:56:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
@51 I mainly use ethernet over a powerline. I do have a Belkin wireless dual-band mobile router which converts ethernet to wireless signal. XStreamOS will not automatically detect it and there is no GUI network configuration, although wireshark is one of the default applications. Sorry that I can't help any further.
66 • @65 XStreamOS (by Anonymous Coward on 2014-01-10 04:19:45 GMT from United States)
Thanks man, fair enough.
I'm not surprised it doesn't detect your wireless card. I don't have a problem configuring the wireless without a GUI, that's easy enough. But I suspect that for many wireless cards, the problem is deeper than just a lack of GUI tools - it's probably a lack of support in the Illumos kernel.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for future reviews though.
67 • Page Hit Rankings (by Charles Burge on 2014-01-10 19:16:42 GMT from United States)
I think another story that continues from last year is the death spiral that Mandriva finds itself in. It went from #10 at year-end 2011 to #29 last year to #42 this year. Frequent visitors to this site probably know how Mandriva shot itself in the foot with infighting among the team and then mass defections to the Mageia project. I'm a little saddened by that since Mandrake 7.1 was my introduction to Linux. I've read before on this site opinions that resources are too thinly spread out among too many projects. As this point, I think it would make sense for the Mandriva folks to divest themselves of their resources and throw their support behind either Mageia or ROSA.
68 • @67 (by jaws222 on 2014-01-10 20:25:19 GMT from United States)
PCLinuxOS also forked from Mandriva. I guess when Mageia formed it hit Mandriva even harder. I have a copy of PCLinuxOS on one of my partitions and use it from time-to-time. It's a pretty good distro, not one of my favorites but not too bad.
69 • RE:67 (by Landor on 2014-01-10 23:42:37 GMT from Canada)
So because some pseudo numbers on a website that are only based on page clicks in some fashion or another you believe Mandriva is going to spiral out of existence?
Mandrake/Mandriva has had problems pretty well since its inception and is still around in some form, yet the almighty PHR shows it's going to be gone. WoW!
It reminds me of the Gentoo hater that couldn't use it properly so attacked it here regularly. I think in 2007 it was predict without question that it would no longer exist within a year.
Internet Prophecy. We can all sleep better at night thanks to it.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
70 • Home and Small Office Server evaluation (by DaveLoper on 2014-01-10 23:45:00 GMT from United States)
It was interesting to see your surprise that so many non-traditional Linux distributions were voted to be part of the Server Showdown for Home and Small Office. I'm not surprised at all by the votes, why? Because when you set up a Home Server, it needs to be as useful for the competent Linux administrator as it does for the users in the environment. As an admin, I need my wife to be just as able to whitelist a website for my kids as I am. This means that all the typical distributions like OpenSUSE, CentOS, Debian and Ubuntu are off the list. Why? Because it's not useful to my missus and when she wants to get to a blocked website, the last thing I want to do is to drop everything at work and manage another live environment.
This is why I think your criteria for your test is wrong. Instead of thinking how this is useful to an already competent linux admin that can get services running on any FLOSS box, why not look at it through Missus-o-vision.
My wife could care less about advanced filesystems or being able to access files via OpenSSH. What she does care about is being able to stop children from viewing porn, accessing her files with a mapped network drive, organizing her photos, accessing her data remotely when we are traveling, using our server to watch her movies and stop pop-up adds. Moreover, I need to be able to have HER do these admin tasks without breaking the stuff that I know doesn't or should need touching (admin privilege separation).
Small offices need the same thing, they need turnkey platforms that don't require them to have a full-time admin on hand or on call. They need to be able to add users, printers, email accounts and they need reports. They also need to have the secretary do some of this stuff and not have her breaking the VPN configuration. This is what is really important for these environments.
Two things as a side note, first in defense of SME. SME does have the ability to enable sharing within their interface. They do it through a central storage mechanism (called i-Bays or information bays) that is NOT in the Samba control. Like ClearOS, they do this so that they can specify storage and then turn on different protocols that show that storage. Make your samba shares here.
Second, I was saddened that you didn't include ClearOS on the list of servers that you are going to test. I find this sad because of the 4 systems that were voted in that are smalloffice/home-centric, ClearOS is more widely used. For example, ClearOS is currently 51 on distrowatch (6 month average). Compared to SME@129, SMS@153, and Zentyal@81.
71 • Debian Testing (by Hugo Masse on 2014-01-12 20:15:10 GMT from Mexico)
I see some discussion about Debian Testing derivatives. You should really try out SparkyLinux 3.2. It's almost vanilla Debian with a handful of very useful tools: LM's Disk Drive Manager (that has just upgraded my kernel to one with PAE support), and a series of APT scripts to backup app settings, documents and even create an ISO image of your current install. Of course, you could do all that from bash (and, in my case, a manual to guide me) but here's just a few clicks away. My favourite flavour: MATE.
72 • @71 (by jaws222 on 2014-01-12 20:39:11 GMT from United States)
SparkyLinux is pretty good. I installed Makulu XFCE version in Virtualbox the other day and that one is also nice. It has the whisker menu which is really polished.
Number of Comments: 72
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