 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 530, 21 October 2013 |
Welcome to this year's 42nd issue of DistroWatch Weekly! This past week news feeds in the Linux ecosystem were flooded with reports of Ubuntu, Ubuntu spins and reviews of Ubuntu in its many flavours. This week we bring you early reports of Ubuntu's 13.10 release and some first impressions. Ubuntu is, of course, based on the Debian GNU/Linux distribution and this week we reflect some of Ubuntu's spotlight onto Debian. Lucas Nussbaum, current Debian Project Leader, recently gave an interview to Frostcast and we link to that discussion below. This week we also feature a review of a Debian-based distribution, Kwheezy. Read on to learn Jesse Smith's views of this young distribution which mixes Debian's stable branch with a full-featured KDE desktop. Also in this edition of DistroWatch Weekly we discuss keeping up with security patches on enterprise-focused Linux distributions, announce the new releases of the past week and look forward to exciting new distribution releases to come. We wish you all a pleasant week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Introducing Kwheezy 1.2
 Kwheezy is a Debian-based distribution which combines Debian's latest stable release with a live disc, a nice graphical system installer and the KDE desktop. The project attempts to provide users with a stable operating system that will run KDE and provide most desired functionality directly out of the box. The concept certainly appeals to me. I like Debian in general, but I find it takes a while to get it set up the way I like. The idea of having all of the features I desire ready to go combined with Debian's stable base and the KDE desktop certainly appealed to me. I downloaded a copy of the project's live disc which was approximately 3.6 GB in size.
Booting off the live disc brings up a window asking us to confirm our keyboard's layout. Once we have made our selection the window is replaced with the KDE desktop. The application menu, system tray and task switcher sit at the bottom of the screen. Over on the left is an icon for the system installer and to the right of the display is a panel which gives constant updates on CPU, network and memory statistics. As the distribution appeared to be running smoothly I immediately launched the system installer which is a graphical application. At first we are asked if we would like to be guided through partitioning the disk with help from the installer or if we would like to manually divide our hard disk. Choosing the manual option, I found, launches the KDE Partition Manager. The Partition Manager is a fairly friendly program to use and I found it worked well for me.
When we finish dividing up the disk the installer tries to guess which disk partitions we would like to use for our root file system, the /home directory and swap space. We can override the guesses the installer makes. The installer also asks where we would like to install the distribution's boot loader. After that we are asked to select our time zone from a list. The following screen gets us to set passwords for the root account and an "Administrator". Typically with Linux distributions the terms "administrator" and "root" are used interchangeably, but with Kwheezy the first regular user account to be created is labeled "Administrator". Once we have set passwords on both accounts we are asked to provide a hostname for our computer and then the installer copies its files to the local drive.
When we reboot the computer and login to Kwheezy for the first time, a few things immediately stand out. One is that, upon logging in, we are greeted by a series of pop-up windows which ask us to select the proper driver for our video card. We are also asked to confirm which language the system should use and we are asked if we would like to change language settings for KDE or LibreOffice. These pop-ups are not the only eye-catching elements. Desktop visual effects are enabled, some of the icons in the system tray are animated and there are regular system statistic updates from the Conky status panel on the right. I also noted the default mouse pointer is red, rather than the usual black or white. The icons on the desktop which open applications to display hardware information, KDE's settings, the package manager, user account manager and other system configuration utilities, are larger than usual, giving the desktop an almost cartoon-like appearance. The application menu, by contrast, is presented in the classic layout with smaller icons and text.
Kwheezy 1.2 - the Apper package manager
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Shortly after I logged into the KDE interface a notification appeared in the corner of the screen letting me know software updates were available in the distribution's package repositories. Clicking on the notification didn't accomplish anything and so I launched the Apper package manager using its desktop icon. Apper is a friendly package manager with a simple interface that features bright, clearly labeled icons. Clicking one icon brings up a list of available package updates and another click will download these waiting items. Apper also handles installing and removing software packages, allowing us to browse through software by category, search for software by name and create batches of actions to execute. When Apper first arrived in distributions I was skeptical of it and ran into occasional stability issues, but I am pleased to say the version of Appear which comes with Kwheezy was rock solid for me and worked quickly.
Kwheezy 1.2 - running various desktop applications
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The Kwheezy distribution comes with a lot of applications, ranging from quite common ones to less popular niche software. We are provided with the Firefox web browser and the Adobe Flash plugin. The Thunderbird e-mail client is installed for us, as are the LibreOffice and Calligra productivity suites. The KMail e-mail application is included as is the Rekonq web browser. A Qt-based graphical front end for the Transmission bittorrent software is in the application menu as are a VNC client, the TeamViewer software and the Jitsi voice over IP software. Kwheezy also comes with the Google Earth map software, the Marble desktop globe, the GNU Texmacs editor and the GNU Image Manipulation Program. In the Multimedia sub-menu I found the k3b disc burner, the VLC multimedia player, MPlayer, WinFF for transcoding media and the KsCD audio disc player. Kwheezy comes with a small collection of KDE-themed games, the Steam gaming platform software and the PlayOnLinux utility which helps us install Windows software on Linux. In the same vein the WINE Windows compatibility software is available.
The distribution comes with many small utilities for managing the system and its appearance. Some of these tools include the KDE System Settings panel, a batch file renamer and the Midnight Commander file manager. I found a text editor, calculator and archive manager on the system. There are also accessibility tools which will magnify the screen and read text from the screen. Java is installed on the system and I found Kwheezy runs on the Linux kernel, version 3.2. In the background I found the distribution runs a mail server, a web server and the OpenSSH secure shell. I was surprised to find a web server running on a desktop-oriented distribution as there does not appear to be any direct use for it. There are not any sites or documentation provided by this web service, just a default web page which reads "It Works!". Personally I feel running these network services are more of a security concern than a benefit to most users.
I ran Kwheezy on my desktop machine (dual-core 2.8 GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card) and in a virtual machine courtesy of VirtualBox. I found the distribution ran very well, both on my physical hardware and in the virtual machine. My display was set to its maximum resolution, sound worked out of the box and I encountered no stability issues. The distribution was quick to boot and typically remained responsive while I was using it. Debian is well known for its excellent performance and that strength was evident, even while all of KDE's features were enabled. The distribution is heavier on memory than most. Even with visual effects turned off, file indexing disabled and extras like the Conky statistics panel disabled Kwheezy still used 260 MB of RAM, just sitting at the desktop. With everything enabled, as it was out of the box, the system uses slightly more memory, making Kwheezy one of the heavier distributions I have run. I also noticed that the distribution requires 12 GB of hard drive space for all of its software. This space requirement is about three to four times larger than most mainstream distributions.
Kwheezy 1.2 - changing system settings and adding third-party software
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My overall impression of Kwheezy thus far has been that the distribution does a nice job of making it easy to get up and running with a desktop installation of Debian. I really like the KDE desktop and I like Debian's conservative nature and this makes the concept of an easy to install KDE edition of Debian very appealing. I found the graphical installer worked well and I think it will appeal to newcomers more so than the vanilla Debian installer. There were two points of design where I felt Kwheezy and I were not on the same page. The first is that Kwheezy includes a lot of software. Not just one application for each task, but often several applications per task. This may be convenient as it means we may never need to install any additional software -- all of our multimedia, development, graphic editing and word processing needs are met out of the box -- but the huge collection of software makes Kwheezy quite heavy. The distribution takes up approximately 12GB of space and the menu feels overly cluttered with all of the available tools. I feel this may be off putting to users (it was for me) as it takes that much longer to find want I want. This is not just a matter of bloat, it is also a security concern as Kwheezy ships with several network services, including a web server, running out of the box.
The second issue I had with Kwheezy is that its interface is busy. Debian, plain Debian, has a very low-key graphical interface. When we run Debian we do not see any welcome screen, very few pop-ups and the distribution tends to lack visual effects. Even the icons and wallpaper which come with Debian are, well, bland. I like this as Debian does not draw my attention away from the task at hand. Kwheezy, by contrast, has a very active interface. There are regular updates, flashing icons in the system tray, bright colours everywhere and we are greeted with several pop-ups when we login for the first time. Over the first day or so I found myself taking breaks to hunt down these features and disable them, slowly turning off visual effects, turning off file indexing, confirming settings and generally trying to get the interface to calm down.
Once the interface was pleasantly bland and once the additional services had been disabled, I found I slowly grew to like Kwheezy. The combination of the KDE desktop with a lot of useful software and Debian's rock solid base is a winning formula. I certainly liked the Kwheezy installer and the basic concept behind its design. I would have enjoyed my time with the distribution a good deal more if it had a quieter interface and fewer features enabled out of the box. I feel a calmer desktop would be more in line with Debian's design. In the end, I came around to enjoying Kwheezy, but only after I convinced the desktop to stop distracting me from my work.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Initial impressions of Ubuntu 13.10, Interview with Debian Project Leader, Zenwalk's future
 This past week saw the release of Ubuntu 13.10 and Ubuntu's many community spins. Ubuntu is one of the most widely used Linux distributions and this insures many people will look over and explore the latest release of Canonical's operating system. ZDNet has an early review of Ubuntu 13.10 which covers the interface, changes since the previous release, some notes on Unity and Ubuntu's on-line search. The first-impressions review is generally positive, coming to the conclusion, "While Unity isn't quite to my personal taste, Shuttleworth has been successful in making a Linux desktop that anyone can use. Don't believe me? Download Saucy Salamander and see for yourself."
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 Debian GNU/Linux is a massive open-source project and, perhaps more significantly, a large community of developers, users, organizers and artists. The project, unlike most open-source projects, functions as a democracy where the Debian Project Leader is elected by popular vote. Lucas Nussbaum currently has the honour of holding the Debian leadership position. It is an important job and Nussbaum's work is felt throughout the open-source community. Frostcast featured a podcast last week in which they interviewed Lucas Nussbaum. The interview gives listeners insight into the giant open-source project and the man who helps keep the project on track.
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 In years past when a user wanted a light-weight, powerful distribution that was designed to be clean, fast and stable, Zenwalk Linux was an obvious choice. The project, which is based on the venerable, rock-solid Slackware Linux, was once a highly popular choice for people who wanted the stability and performance of Slackware combined with a quick installation process. However, in recent years the Zenwalk project has fallen out of favour. The project seems to be falling behind in terms of features, currently lacking a 64-bit variant and user-friendly package management. The All Things Linux blog discusses Zenwalk, its glory days and its possible future: "A couple of people must still be using Zenwalk. I still don't really understand how such a promising light weight distro could fall so deep, but I hope it will pick up again. Surviving is not good enough, that's what it's doing right now. A good start would be better testing for the next release as QA seems to have slipped." Are you a current or former Zenwalk user? Let us know what you think of the project in the comments section.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Keeping up with the vulnerabilities
Keeping-updated asks: I would like your insight on an issue I am having with server distributions (Red Hat Enterprise Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise) and their free derivatives concerning their handling of package security updates. Understandably, they do not upgrade server packages, such as PHP and Apache, to the very latest releases since there may be backward incompatible issues (PHP 5.3 to 5.4 to 5.5 or Apache 2.2 to 2.4). This will break business applications that have not been migrated to run under a different version from what came with the distribution at install time. Hence, the server distributions are good for long term stability.
However, at the same time they pride themselves in security which would imply that the current major version of packages would be kept up to its latest minor version. This does not seem to be the case. Despite PHP's warnings of major security issues being fixed in the minor backward compatible versions and recommendations that hosts should immediately upgrade to avoid breaches, server distributions still have ancient insecure versions (SUSE with 5.3.17 and Red Hat with 5.3.3 while security and bug fix updates from PHP are all the way to 5.3.27).
Consequently, in order for me to feel safe about running a host I am forced to use third-party unofficial mirrors which causes instabilities and (potentially) more security issues since they may not be maintained by dedicated experts who develop the distribution and their servers are not controlled by the parent distribution. But that is the risk I have to take if I do not want to run blatantly insecure and bug-prone versions. How do they get away with such a contradiction?
DistroWatch answers: There are a few things to keep in mind when dealing with enterprise level distributions and packages which may be patched during the life cycle of the distribution. First, major distributions back-port bug fixes from recent software releases into their older packages. This means you may appear to be running an insecure old version of a package, but in reality companies like Red Hat and SUSE may include security fixes without bumping the version number. Do not base your security practices on the version number of a package, it is not a useful metric. Instead check the package's change log and the distribution's security advisories.
Both SUSE and Red Hat maintain security advisory trackers which are publicly readable. These trackers provide useful information with regards to known vulnerabilities and comments made to bug trackers and they typically include workarounds or information as to which package version contains a fix for the vulnerability.
Second, avoiding older software that is properly vetted by a company like Red Hat in favour of a third-party repository is highly unrecommended. You are basically trading back-ported, tested security updates from a trusted vendor in exchange for unvetted, untrusted versions of packages which are likely to break functionality. This would be a disservice to your users and to yourself.
Third, if you know for certain the package you are using is insecure and that the enterprise vendor is not releasing an update to deal with the issue then you are better off downloading a patch or updated version of the software from the upstream project and compiling it yourself. This removes the risk presented by using a third-party binary repository.
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| Released Last Week |
Rebellin Linux 2.0
Utkarsh Sevekar has announced the release of Rebellin Linux 2.0, a Debian-based commercial distribution showcasing a highly customised GNOME 3 desktop: "It gives us immense pleasure to announce the latest Rebellin Linux release - Synergy v2.0. Rebellin is a modern, efficient, stable, general-purpose Linux distribution. Our goal is to bring top-notch, personal, unlimited email support to our customers at an affordable price. And here is v2.00 at your service. Rebellin Synergy is based on Debian 'Wheezy' with backports. Here's a quick peek at the benefits of using Rebellin Synergy v2.00: top-notch, unlimited email support that lasts for the lifetime of the product - included in the price; ease and fluidity of GNOME Shell coupled with the superbly efficient design of Gnome 2.x - see your productivity go straight up; Synergy is designed with practicality in mind - built with a no-nonsense approach from start to finish, you get a product that's practical and extremely resource-friendly...." Read the full release announcement for further information.
Rebellin Linux 2.0 - a Debian-based distribution with a customised GNOME 3 desktop
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Vine Linux 6.2
Daisuke Suzuki has announced the release of Vine Linux 6.2, a general-purpose Japanese Linux distribution with GNOME 2.30 as the default desktop environment: "Vine Linux 6.2 (Haut Bailly). This is Vine Linux version 6 release. Since this is not a commercial version (Vine Linux CR), non-free applications and fonts are not included on the CD/DVD. Instead of proprietary ATOX X/Wnn7/Wnn8/VJE Japanese inputs and Ricoh/Dynacomware fonts, this FTP edition contains Anthy and free TrueType fonts. Vine Linux 6.2 has following features (highlights): update the software collection; update Linux kernel to 3.4.65 (latest LTS kernel); bundle newer software - Firefox 24, Thunderbird 24, LibreOffice 4.1; stability improvements; look and feel improvements; newer hardware support; new user-friendly tools." Read the release announcement (in Japanese) and see also the brief release notes (in English) for further information.
Slackel 5.0 "Openbox"
Dimitris Tzemos has announced the release of Slackel 5.0 "Openbox" edition, a lightweight desktop Linux distribution with Openbox based on Slackware's "Current" branch: "Slackel 5.0 Openbox has been released. Slackel is based on Slackware Linux and Salix. Includes Linux kernel 3.10.16 and latest updates from Slackware's 'Current' tree. The ncurses installer includes the option to install LILO or GRUB boot loader. After installation users can use the grubconfig utility to re-install GRUB or to change the boot loader from LILO to GRUB. Users can also use update-grub to update GRUB menus any time they upgrade their kernel or install other Linux distribution. The os-prober tool is used to probe for other operating systems and to update GRUB menus. Slackel 5.0 Openbox includes the Midori 0.5.5 web browser, Claws-Mail 3.9.2, Transmission, SpaceFM, OpenJRE 7u40, Rhino, icedtea-web, Pidgin 2.10.7, gFTP 2.0.19, wicd. AbiWord 2.8.6, Gnumeric 1.12.2 and ePDFviewer office applications are included." The release announcement is accompanied by a screenshot.
Ubuntu 13.10
Welcome to the Ubuntu 13.10 release day. The first in the line-up is Ubuntu itself, Canonical's flagship product and one the world's top desktop Linux distributions - now also available for the 64-bit ARM architecture: "Canonical today announces the availability of Ubuntu 13.10 for desktop and smartphone. Ubuntu's first true mobile release delivers the streamlined core OS and mobile user interface that pave the way for full device convergence and create a unique platform for modern computing. Canonical is working with partners to bring Ubuntu smartphone devices to market in 2014. The desktop version of Ubuntu 13.10 reflects much of that progress, with scopes that organise home, apps, music, video content, lower device memory and graphics requirements and substantial improvements in battery and memory efficiency." Read the press release and the more technical release notes further information.
Ubuntu 13.10 - on the path to "convergence"
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Ubuntu Studio 13.10
Howard Chan has announced the release of Ubuntu Studio 13.10, an Ubuntu sub-project providing a full range of multimedia content creation applications for audio, graphics, video, photography and publishing: "The Ubuntu Studio team proudly announces the immediate release of Ubuntu Studio 13.10. This exciting release incorporates the new features listed below: a new menu structure which works on any desktop environment; a new package named ubuntustudio-installer, which allows any person to install our metapackages and can fit into any desktop environment; instead of a settings menu, we have fitted in a new Settings Manager, with all settings in one place; when you are in the GRUB menu, the boot item for Ubuntu Studio will show 'Ubuntu Studio' instead of 'Ubuntu'; the latest low-latency kernel will be always the default boot item in the GRUB boot loader; the XFCE session in the LightDM is removed to avoid any confusion with the Ubuntu Studio session...." Continue to the release announcement and release notes to learn more.
Xubuntu 13.10
Pasi Lallinaho has announced the release of Xubuntu 13.10, an official flavour of the Ubuntu operating system with Xfce - a stable, light and configurable desktop environment: "The Xubuntu team is delighted to announce the release of Xubuntu 13.10! Some of the highlights for Xubuntu 13.10 include: a new version of xfce4-settings has been uploaded, bringing amongst other things a new dialog to set up your displays; a tool for changing your theme colors easily, gtk-theme-config, has been added to the default installation; new wallpaper; new releases of our GTK+ themes (with GTK+ 3.10 support) as well as the LightDM greeter, fixing many visual bugs; updated documentation. Known problems: indicator sound no longer functions with Xfce indicator plugin; gmusicbrowser's albuminfo plugin is deactivated by default and causes the app to hang if enabled...." See the release announcement and release notes for further details.
Kubuntu 13.10
Jonathan Riddell has announced the release of Kubuntu 13.10, an Ubuntu variant featuring the latest KDE desktop environment: "Welcome to Kubuntu 13.10, a brand-new version with the latest KDE software to enjoy. Highlights: a new versions of KDE's Software Compilation 4.11 is featured in Kubuntu 13.10, adding faster Nepomuk indexing, Kontact improvements such as a new theme editor for e-mails, and preparing the ground for future developments using Wayland and Qt 5; Muon Discover - a friendly new way to discover and install applications; User Manager - a simpler way to manage your system users; wireless setup in installer; KDE Telepathy with better text editing and improved notifications; the new Network Manager applet gives a simpler UI for connecting to a range of network types; for a summary of the OS installed use the new About System page in System Settings...." See the full release announcement for more details, screenshots, known issues and information about the new Kubuntu shop.
Edubuntu 13.10
Stéphane Graber has announced the release of Edubuntu 13.10, a flavour of Ubuntu designed for educational and non-profit environments: "The Edubuntu team is pleased to announce the release of Edubuntu 13.10 (code name 'Saucy Salamander'). This release will be supported for 9 months, it is intended for enthusiasts and users who would like to try out the latest and greatest software. If you're installing Edubuntu in an organisation such as a school, university or non-profit, we suggest you deploy Edubuntu 12.04 LTS (long-term support), which is supported until April 2017 for both servers and desktops. What's New? Edubuntu 13.10 is mostly a refresh on Edubuntu 13.04 without any significant change to the package selection. Notable updates: Unity 7.1.2, LibreOffice 4.1.2, Firefox 24.0, Thunderbird 24.0, Linux kernel 3.11, Upstart 1.10, Python 3.3.2." Here is the brief release announcement.
UbuntuKylin 13.10
Jack Yu has announced the release of UbuntuKylin 13.10, an official variant of Ubuntu (with Unity) designed for users in China and providing a customised Chinese user experience: "We are glad to announce the release of UbuntuKylin 13.10. In this release, the Linux kernel has been updated to 3.11. We have added more useful applications, such as Youker Assistant, KuaiPan client, fcitx-qimpanel, Unity China video scope, Unity China photo scope and UbuntuKylin wallpapers. Besides, Chinese calendar, Indicator China Weather, Unity China music scope and WPS for UbuntuKylin have been updated. New features: system customization - provides new GRUB selection, slideshow and boot animation; Youker Assistant provides a simple but powerful way for users to use and manage their systems; Unity China video scope - shows Chinese video results searched from Youku service on Dash...." See the release announcement (in Chinese) and release notes (in English, with screenshots) for more details.
UbuntuKylin 13.10 - a distribution designed and optimised for users in China
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Lubuntu 13.10
Mario Behling has announced the release of Lubuntu 13.10, a lightweight variant of Ubuntu that provides the minimalist LXDE desktop and a selection of light applications: "Julien Lavergne has released Lubuntu 13.10. Features: based on the lightweight LXDE desktop environment; PCManFM - a fast and lightweight file manager; Openbox -a fast and extensible default windows manager of LXDE; LightDM using a simple GTK+ greeter; Firefox as the new web browser for Lubuntu 13.10; based on Ubuntu 13.10. Improvements since Lubuntu 13.04: new version of PCManFM and libfm (1.1.0) including a built-in search utility; artwork improvements, including new wallpapers, community wallpapers and new icons; removed Catfish since PCManFM has its own search utility; fixed a very old bug causing GNOME MPlayer to crash with some CPUs; several fixes for the GPicView image viewer." Read the rest of the release announcement for system requirements and known issues.
Ubuntu GNOME 13.10
Ali Jawad has announced the release of Ubuntu GNOME 13.10, the project's second release as an official Ubuntu flavour featuring the GNOME 3 desktop with GNOME Shell: "The Ubuntu GNOME team is proud to announce the release of Ubuntu GNOME 13.10. Ubuntu GNOME aims to bring a mostly pure GNOME desktop experience to Ubuntu. Keeping in coordination with the Ubuntu Desktop team, we have decided to stay with GNOME 3.8 for the 13.10 release. Features: most of GNOME 3.8 is now included; many artwork improvements including new boot loader theme, Plymouth theme, wallpapers, installer slideshow and completed branding with our new logo; the new GNOME Classic session is included, to try it choose it from the Sessions option on the login screen; Ubuntu Online Accounts is no longer included by default." See the release announcement and release notes for more information.
Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 - Ubuntu with a standard GNOME 3 desktop and GNOME Shell
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Simplicity Linux 13.10
David Purse has announced the release of Simplicity Linux 13.10, a new version of the project's Puppy-based distribution for desktops and netbooks, featuring the LXDE desktop environment: "We are proud to announce that Simplicity Linux 13.10 is now available for download. From today you can download Obsidian, Netbook and Desktop. Media and X will be available in a few days, as we're still not 100% happy with them. Simplicity Linux 13.10 is based on Upup 3.9.9.1 which in turn is based on Puppy Linux. Desktop has the biggest change this release cycle. We have now brought back OnLive; improvements in WINE and video drivers mean that OnLive works better than it did in the past. We know it's not Steam, but with OnLive if you have a decent Internet connection, at least you don't have to worry about big downloads, you can just get on with gaming. Desktop also has Dropbox integrated into it, so you can sync your files and get them on any device with a browser." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details.
Simplicity Linux 13.10 - a Puppy-based distribution with a customised LXDE desktop
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CentOS 5.10
Johnny Hughes has announced the release of CentOS 5.10, an updated build of the project's distribution built from source code of the recently-released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.10: "We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of CentOS 5.10 for the i386 and x86_64 architectures. New features: MySQL versions 5.1 and 5.5 are now available, MySQL 5.1 is only provided for assisting in upgrading MySQL 5.0 databases to MySQL 5.5 and it should not be used in production environments; there will be no more security updates for the 5.0 and 5.1 versions of MySQL; a new package, gcc-libraries, consisting of libraries libatomic and libitm, is now available - these libraries provide support for certain atomic operations and transactional memory; the HP cciss RAID driver has been updated to the latest version...." See the release announcement and especially the release notes for a detailed list of changes and known issues.
LinHES 8.0
Cecil Watson has released version 8.0 of LinHES (which stands for "Linux Home Entertainment System"), an Arch-based Linux distribution centred around MythTV. The biggest change of the release is the switch to the x86_64 architecture. From the release notes: "With this release of LinHES several things have changed. The main thing to note is that with this release, LinHES will support 64-bit processors only. This change, along with a partition layout change means that an in-place upgrade of an existing system is not possible. All installs of R8 should be treated as new installs, with the option to import the old recordings, if desired. R8 uses the same version of MythTV as R7, so importing the old recordings should be very straightforward." Other notable changes include: "old NVIDIA drivers have been dropped; Fbsplash has been replaced with Plymouth; GRUB 2 has replaced GRUB; Fluxbox has been replaced by Enlightenment as the default window manager...."
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
New distributions added to waiting list
- LoC-OS Linux. LoC-OS Linux is a re-spin of Ubuntu featuring lots of useful software in the default installation.
- Audiophile Linux. Audiophile Linux is an operating system optimised for high-quality digital audio reproduction featuring a real-time kernel.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 28 October 2013. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • @ Keeping-updated (by greenpossum on 2013-10-21 09:14:38 GMT from Australia)
You might want to check what actually happens behinds the scenes when a stable distro such as RHEL or SUSE Enterprise updates packages such as PHP. Last time I checked, what they do is backport the security patches to older versions while retaining the old version number. So the version number is not a reliable guide to what security bugs have been addressed.
2 • Re: Rebellin Linux 2.0 (by silent on 2013-10-21 09:39:43 GMT from France)
Very nice customization of Gnome based on the screenshot. Gno-Menu (or probably the quite similar Dexi Applications Menu?) with the search bar and many configuration options is indeed a much more user friendly menu extension (unfortunately not yet available for Gnome 3.10) than the official Applications Menu in Gnome Classic.
3 • Zenwalk (by Microlinux on 2013-10-21 09:49:09 GMT from France)
I've been a Zenwalk user back in the early days, back in 2005. I liked the idea of an easy-to-use no-nonsense distro based on Slackware and Xfce. A few things drove me away from the distribution.
1) You couldn't always find the sources, and the distribution policy in regards to sources has never been entirely transparent.
2) The release policy could only be called frantic. One new release every two or three months, with no indication whatsoever about support cycles or the likes.
I guess the "Slackware for the lazy Slacker" niche has been entirely and successfully filled by the Salix distribution. A glance on their forum also shows that most of the Zenwalk folks seem to have migrated to Salix.
Advantages here: perfect sync with the mother distribution, full source tree always available. Plus, they're rather a nice bunch.
(Me, I stick with Slackware :oD)
4 • Kwheezy (by Sondar on 2013-10-21 09:53:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Predictably comprehensive and competent review again, Jesse - thanks. About busyness and size, who could not agree. KDE used to be my favourite desktop, but over the years its own bloat has increased so much as to obscure the underlying intentions and productivity of the distro itself. Time to visit the amazing but underpublicised X-Slacko ! This is an Xfce derivative of the Slacko derivative of Puppy. Talk about kitchen sink, and all in 184Mb. The comparison with Kwheezy is stark. But both have their strengths and weaknesses; being Linux avail yourself of both.
5 • Zenwalk (by kc1di on 2013-10-21 10:16:07 GMT from United States)
@ # 3 I would agree with Microlinux's assesment and would add that the erratic development model did me in also. no set goals seemed to appear.
Also Vector once a very popular Distro has fallen on a similar fate quite a few that used to use it have moved on because of the slow progress of development. With either on I I once used Vector and Zenwalk a lot. there is no clear feeling that they know where they want to go.
they were both great distros in their day.
6 • Zenwalk (by César on 2013-10-21 10:39:14 GMT from Chile)
Saludos desde Santiago de Chile.
Soy usuario Linux hace bastantes años ya, he probado varias distros y hace muchos años que usé Zenwalk por primera vez, la cual era ligera, basada en Slackware, no tenía problemas con dependencias, tenía paquetes actualizados, uso simple, segura y estable.
¿Qué pasó con ella?...hace tiempo que no se ve actividad en la página del proyecto, parece que está "muerta". Salix OS que es muy similar a los comienzos de esta distro tiene una comunidad bastante activa, siempre está sacando imágenes actualizadas, en fin, hacen lo que en Zenwalk ya no sucede. Ojalá esta distro vuelva a estar actualizada ya que era una excelente distro en lo suyo, "una aplicación por tarea".
Saludos.
7 • Zenwalk (by fencemeister717 on 2013-10-21 11:17:24 GMT from United States)
I use numerous versions of both Linux and BSD. Most are on dedicated hard drives with one of those being Zenwalk. Zenwalk is my choice for use when watching live sports events on my PIII/400 with 384mb. Although I have 3 never desktops and two newer laptops which I could use Zenwalk on. I purposely use it on my old PIII time and time again. I suppose I may never get over the fascination with just how flawlessly it performs on otherwise would be a piece of sh*t. Losing Zenwalk and it's ability to shine on old machines would be yet another dagger in the heart to one of Linux' main purposes, resurrecting of old systems.
8 • Zenwalk (by uz64 on 2013-10-21 11:45:52 GMT from United States)
Zenwalk was actually the first Linux distro I used, although I eventually switched away from it years ago. I still have good memories of it. The only real reason I switched away at the time was for a larger package repository.
9 • Zenwalk (by slck64 on 2013-10-21 12:19:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
I did not start my linux journey with Zenwalk. I began with mandrake, progressed to Slackware then did Zenwalk for a while. It was light and quick as is known, but I left because of unfriendliness of developers when answering questions. I mainly use slackware now. I know it has everything plus the kitchen sink, but at least it works with no hitches, which is something that Zenwalk had.
10 • zenwalk (by munichjohn on 2013-10-21 12:59:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
I used and appreciated Zenwalk on a Compaq Armada notebook a good while back. A few years ago I believe that the Salix folk split-off from Zenwalk. Since then the progress of updates and new versions of zenwalk slowed considerably, presumably because of resource constraints. Time moves on and daily I'm using the Mate flavour of PCLOS still on old hardware but no longer a PIII. The old notebook has been consigned to the attic, presumably still with a working copy of Zenwalk.
11 • Ubuntu 13.10 (by Chanath on 2013-10-21 13:19:56 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I wasn't very happy with what I got of Ubuntu 13.10. It left a blank bar, when I had the Unity side bar autohidden. I have found out that others had the same problem. the Ubuntu 13.10, I had since Ubuntu released the daily image and updated was working much better than this release. I also downloaded the Gnome edition, which too gave some initial problems, but was working much better. This is strange, as I had updated and dist-upgraded the Ubuntu 13.10 I had, just a day before.
Usually, I download Kubuntu, Lubuntu and Xubuntu too, but this time refrained from doing so. I think, I'd wait for the 14.04 daily image to see what's happening.
I wish Ubuntu would come out with Mir or Ubuntu Next or whatever new DE they are planning. Lately, I've been using Windows 8 RT that came with Lenovo Yoga 11, and surprisingly very happy with it. It upgraded to 8.1 RT without a hitch. This Lenovo Yoga 11 is ARM, so my next desire is to buy a touch screen laptop with Intel or AMD, so I can use Linux with touch. Not good with my purse yet for that. The System 76 laptop is too expensive, unnecessarily.
Time to move on to touch devices with Linux.
12 • zenwalk (by Fred on 2013-10-21 14:16:43 GMT from France)
I used slack, zenwalk and Salix.
Salix moved so well that Zenwalk becomes useless.
Finally I get upset with lack of package management, and moved to Fedora.
Yes sometimes dependencies, which are human-decided, are subject to discussion, group organization is sometimes weird (1 group seems installed, because 1 package of this group installed, e.g.) but I was tired of handling dependencies
13 • Naming convention (by Fred on 2013-10-21 14:29:56 GMT from France)
About security and naming convention.
yes it is true that for example Redhat will includes security fix in upstream version 1.2.45, in for example version 1.2.14-301 (if they first released that package using version 1.2.14).
But then they will update package from version 1.2.14-300 to 1.2.14-301.
Ubuntu is doing the same for kernel. kernel release name is, say, 3.5.0-123, and base number remains 3.5.0, while the package is based, say on 3.5.23.
It may sound incredible, and I don't know how they are not loosing their mind by doing so...
I think it just to make decision makers feeling more comfortable, as they may think that it is more stable this way...
Decisions makers often don't understand what minor release means (ex: 1.2.3 versus 1.2.4), and developers as well.
Indeed, it not uncommon some major changes are done in so called minor versions...
14 • Zenwalk and Ubuntu (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-21 15:43:12 GMT from United States)
I tried Zenwalk on a Toshiba Satellite Pro with a P3 processor around 7 or 8 years ago and it worked very well. The laptop finally died and I moved on from Zenwalk but while I used it I was happy with the way it performed. I would like to see them make a comeback but I wonder if there would be enough of a niche market for them to succeed?
With Ubuntu 13.10, I downloaded, installed, updated and started using. So far everything has worked very well and I've not had any of the problems that Chanath has had. That's not to say that I won't but it's worked well so far. I've got some younger friends and family that seem to like it very much, but then again they love their smartphones while I don't even have one. While there has been some glitches for the most part, people seemed to be very pleased. The convergence with tablets and smartphones is getting closer. I'm sure there will be a touchscreen device with ARM that Linux can be installed on coming soon. Well, I would think so anyway. :)
15 • ARM and touchscreens : TSlib has been existing for years... (by dbrion on 2013-10-21 16:06:33 GMT from France)
" I'm sure there will be a touchscreen device with ARM that Linux can be installed on " (14).
"Time to move on to touch devices with Linux."(11)
I suppose TSlib (http://tslib.berlios.de/) is living in a temporal distorsion, as it has been used on an ARM based GNUlinux since 2009 http://www.armadeus.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Tslib&action=history
(maybe it does not exist on one's favorite laptop, but it has been checked at least on one ARM 4 years ago);
Oh, it has been tested on RPi one year ago (rather 6 months, in fact) , too : http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=16541&p=180185 .
I do not know about its bright future (no crystal balls) , but its past and present seems interesting...
16 • @ 15 dbrion (by Chanath on 2013-10-21 16:30:00 GMT from Sri Lanka)
When I said time to move onto touch devices with Linux, I meant Intel or AMD processor laptops. I am not going to buy a Nexus 7 and take away nicely working Android and try to install Ubuntu.
I know there are touch screen laptops with Ubuntu in System 76, but they are terribly expensive, so I might buy a used Dell or HP used core 2 duo touch screen laptop to install Ubuntu.
The touch screen computers with Intel/Amd chips are already there, and would be the future, so it is time for our developers of Linux distros to go that way. I wish Ubuntu success with Mir .
17 • Tuture is not the Pas; a given laptop is not the PC world (re 16) (by dbrion on 2013-10-21 16:54:32 GMT from France)
" time to move onto touch devices with Linux, I meant Intel or AMD processor laptops. "
There are lots of ARM (and MIPS) platforms with GNU-Linux inside. Some are very popular or very cheap (Beagle Bone Black, RPi, PCduini ) .
The restriction to (your laptop)/PCs is as absurd as the equation a PC == XP (at least 80% of the French PC users believe it) or GNUlinux == Ubuntu.... or as absurd as the confusion of
things already developped == things which should be developed...
18 • Security & naming (by M.Z. on 2013-10-21 17:49:36 GMT from United States)
The whole updates & names thing was one of the few things about Linux that drove me nuts when I first started using it. I always knew it was supposed to be more secure, but it bugged the hell out of me knowing that I was running an 'outdated' version that hadn't been fully fixed, or so I thought at the time. Now a few years later I know that it has always been that way, but it can be quite unsettling if you don't realize what's going on from the start.
19 • OpenMandriva (by Dave Postles on 2013-10-21 18:36:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
It distinguishes itself from Rosa by having the KDE kicker as well as the Rosa panel. Sadly, it still requires a reboot during installation for the partitioning process if you use the full disk, The installation stalled on my Toshiba (nothing new there - several distros fail), but ran fine on my PCSpecialist notebook. It's obviously a VERY heavy DE, combining Rosa-adapted KDE and 'normal' KDE.
20 • Zenwalk (by Ivan V. [ivnmad] on 2013-10-21 18:44:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
I installed Zenwalk on old laptops and distributed them among family and friends for many years. Unfortunately I had problems with the latest release and the very slow development didn't help either. I've been installing PCLinuxOS instead during the last year. A real pity, because it used to be a very good distro.
21 • Rebellin 2.0 (by JohnM on 2013-10-21 18:49:49 GMT from United States)
Rebellin is truly a godsend for those of us new to Linux, but powerful enough for even the most experienced user. This is obviously a labor of love, and not just a hobby for the Rebellin team.. you can see they have seen to the smallest of details. Here's my favorite part ... they have a library where all sorts of tutorials for installation of various softwares onto Rebellin, written in a friendly casual manner, in plain everyday language. Easy to follow... and should you need some support.. email the support team. Many times the replies are almost instant, but friendly patient help is never more that a couple hours away. How many Distro's can you ask for help, and get it directly from the developers? Sure, they charge a few bucks for the download, but they are a commercial enterprise, offer professional support, as good, or better than the other professional distro's. They spend plenty of time, never rushed, to make sure you have only the best experience with Rebellin. Try them, you will be happy you did.
22 • KWheezy (by janusz on 2013-10-21 21:15:57 GMT from Poland)
For the last 3 years I tried a few KDE-based distros. I went from Mint KDE through Mepis then Sabayon 11 followed by Mint 14 and 15, Manjaro, Wheezy and lastly KWheezy. My Thinkpad R500 has almost the same specs as Jesse's. KWheezy did not recognize the touchpad, I had to to install 2 packages to make it work. But when over the next 3 days I tried to change the default themes, switched off almost all eyecandy and desktop effects, the system started to freeze from time to time - exactly that, no clear reason could be detected. And while Mepis never did freeze and never stopped working flawlessly no matter what, it nevertheless literally burned up two power supply units for my laptop. With KWheezy, though Conky did not indicate anything wrong, the power supply did get very, very hot. And so, I finally decided to install Kubuntu 13.10. So far so good. No bloat, you got kernel 3.11 so the power supply stays real cool no matter what. So I guess power management is something that the Ubuntu guys spent hours at streamlining. Even all my laptop extra function keys and controls work out of the box. I even read some late interview with Shuttleworth. And strange as it may seem, I have the feeling that his team does a lot of hard work under the hood to make the system run smooth and save us hours on tweaking the kernel and basic services. I customized the look of my Kubuntu, installed a few basic apps and am looking forward to the year of linux on the desktop.
23 • Mark Shuttleworth's Tea Party Comment (by William Roddy on 2013-10-21 21:18:50 GMT from United States)
I have always been a fan, user, and supporter of Ubuntu, and an admirer of Mark Shuttleworth. However, today he stepped well out of bounds when he defended his Mir project from those who oppose it, by saying, "At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party ;)" (The "wink" is his.)
What does that mean? Is Mr Shuttleworth, a South African who is doing business on the Isle of Man implying 1) that he finds the American so-called "tea party" is something he understands enough to use as a comparative? 2) That the "Tea Party" is intrinsically bad, something he opposes? 3) That he believes the term "Tea Party" is a pejorative? 4) That he can blithely impose a connection between American politics and his visions of a Linux distribution?
There is no such thing as the "Tea Party," other than it being a loosely connected variety of people with varying ideals and ideas about American government. It is not monolithic, any more than the community of "Linux" is monolithic.
People have a right to believe what they wish, without being bulldozed into a corner by a name many people with the same ideals chose not to use.
The little "wink" at the end of the comment -- Mr Shuttleworth's -- adds to the offense, and, to my mind, the entire statement feels uncomfoI have always been a fan, user, and supporter of Ubuntu, and an admirer of Mark Shuttleworth. However, today he stepped well out of bounds when he defended his Mir project from those who oppose it, by saying, "At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party ;)" (The "wink" is his.)
What does that mean? Is Mr Shuttleworth, a South African who is doing business on the Isle of Man implying 1) that he finds the American so-called "tea party" is something he understands enough to use as a comparative? 2) That the "Tea Party" is intrinsically bad, something he opposes? 3) That he believes the term "Tea Party" is a pejorative? 4) That he can blithely impose a connection between American politics and his visions of a Linux distribution?
There is no such thing as the "Tea Party," other than it being a loosely connected variety of people with similar but varying ideals and ideas about American government. It is not monolithic, any more than the community of "Linux" is monolithic.
People have a right to believe what they wish, without being bulldozed into a corner by a name many people with the same ideals chose not to use.
The little "wink" at the end of the comment -- Mr Shuttleworth's -- adds to the offense, and, to my mind, the entire statement feels uncomfortably close to being bigoted. I would expect more, particularly of a South African. I would expect far more from a mover and shaker in one of the few moral group enterprises on the planet, the open-sources community.
I am offended by the comment, not only for the name-calling, but also for the dark shadow that has suddenly been cast by Mr Shuttleworth across the faces of Americans and of Linux whom I love.rtably close to being bigoted. I would expect more, particularly of a South African. I would expect far more from a mover and shaker in one of the few moral group enterprises on the planet, the open-sources community.
I am offended by the comment, not only for the name-calling, but also for the dark shadow that has suddenly been cast by Mr Shuttleworth across both the faces of Americans and of Linux whom I love.
I hope you all will forgive me for going off-topic, but DistroWatch.com is the best on the Web. And I truly believe open-source should be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, because it is a truly world-wide cooperative effort to produce and improve things that a both good and useful.
24 • Chrome (by Ralph Smole on 2013-10-21 21:42:52 GMT from United States)
Why don't more distros feature Chrome instead of Firefox? I personally will NOT try a distro with Firefox. Waste of my time having to go through Synaptic to download Chrome(Chromium).
25 • re: #23 & Mr Shuttleworth's comments (by Bill on 2013-10-21 21:54:00 GMT from United States)
To me this is but a public relations gimmick to create a grass roots demand for Mir support from all those parties currently not supporting it. Mr. S. wishes to be seen as being being bullied and hopes for the masses to come to his and Mir's defense and demand for it's support.
I am still am not sure why Wayland couldn't be extended to meet Ubuntu's needs, maybe timing, but that part of an OS is not something I understand nor care to as long as it works.
When I look at Ubunty and Mir and Unity I get the impression that Mr. S. wants his creation be be perceived as something apart from Linux and more akin to Apple's OS - cooler and more desired.
26 • Zenwalk, VectorLinux, etc... (by Caitlyn Martin on 2013-10-21 21:58:37 GMT from United States)
I think the comments so far about Zenwalk and VectorLinux have been spot on. Both were excellent attempts at making Slackware more user friendly (using a conventional definition of usability) and offering features that vanilla Slackware doesn't offer. What has happened is that distros like SalixOS and Slackel have passed them by. They seem to have the momentum not only in terms of mindshare, but in terms of their developer community. The good news is that both VectorLinux and Zenwalk still have viable communities and talented developers so, eventually, they may make a leap forward and regain users and mindshare.
I'm increasingly finding things that other distros do well out of the box that Slackware and derivatives don't do at all, like successfully connecting my Samsung Galaxy SII and being able to transfer files back and forth. Most of the searching online I've done led to suggestions (i.e.: which library to install) that didn't work for me. My last install of SalixOS will die as soon as my download of Stella 6.4 is finished. Pity, because in general it's a very good distro. My tinkering time is limited and is dedicated to a specific project so, for right now, I need to use distros that mostly just work and where whatever I need to add or change isn't an adventure.
27 • Kwheezy is a great idea but... (by Linadian on 2013-10-21 22:23:20 GMT from Canada)
...like every other Debian based distro, it doesn't 'see' my Intel 'hardware' Raid 0 (2x120GB SSDs). This is why use Kubuntu, and only Kubuntu, no WinDOHS on this machine. ;-D
28 • Mark Shuttleworth's Tea Party Comment (by bam on 2013-10-21 22:35:29 GMT from United States)
Bravo Mark Shuttleworth's. I read Mark's comments and agree with him 100%.
Actually there are some scathing comments concerning the open source group:
http://solarbay.tumblr.com
29 • Point Linux (by fernbap on 2013-10-21 23:16:20 GMT from Portugal)
I have been using Point Linux 2.2, and so far It has been flawless.. If you are interested in a distro based on Debian Stable, with up to date apps (and Firefox from the start) and enjoy the "old" MATE+Compiz+Emerald environment while remaining rock solid, light and fast, give it a try.
So far, after trying LMDE and Point Linux, it gives me the sensation of "LMDE done right".
30 • Re: Red Hat Security updates (by Pearson on 2013-10-21 23:17:30 GMT from United States)
There's a yum-security plugin that is supposed to make it easier to keep up to date, and only get security updates. I found it to not be complete (one particular Red Hat Security Advisory (RHSA) didn't show up). I wrote a combination of bash and perl to scrape the html page of an RHSA to identify the packages requiring an update. It wasn't terribly difficult, and much more accurate that what I would've done by hand (some RHSA updates are outdated by more recent RHSA updates).
31 • Running Linux on an ARM laptop / touchpad (by K.U. on 2013-10-21 23:19:23 GMT from Finland)
I am writing this on a low cost ARM (Allwinner A10) based laptop with Raspbian installed on an external SD-card. The install was extremely easy with the Berryboot bootloader / installer, see http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot_a10. Android remains (nearly unused) in my laptops internal SD-card.
There are a lot of cheap ARM based laptops/touchpads available on webshops like eBay or Aliexpress. Quite many of them are capable of running Linux - probably all Allwinner A10 based at least.
32 • Zenwalk (by SlaxFan on 2013-10-21 23:39:11 GMT from United States)
I used to use Zenwalk on my Phenom w/8GB RAM. I only used the live distro and loaded it to RAM. I never shut down, just suspended to RAM. It always worked flawlessly, supported all my hardware, and ran really quick. I don't recall why I didn't install to the hard drive. I wish the Zenwalk team luck and I look forward to future improvements.
33 • Distributions on the bubble (by :wq on 2013-10-22 03:36:16 GMT from United States)
• PureOS seems to have dropped off the map, and can likely be dropped from the list of active distributions. Its home page reads, "This website is closed since Aug. 23, 2013." I'm not sure about the status of SprezzOS; its home page was blank for a time earlier this year, and then later redirected to the developer's personal web page for much of the summer, but the distribution's web page is back now for the time being.
• As far as Zenwalk, I always thought Jean-Philippe Guillemin was quite affable and responsive (characteristics which sadly I find are often lacking in other projects) whenever I read something he had written somewhere, but I agree with others that Salix OS has displaced VectorLinux and Zenwalk, though I have enjoyed all three in years past [it might be worth noting that Salix OS also receives a mention in Slackware's FAQ (http://docs.slackware.com/slackware:faq), which may steer some users to Salix OS over VectorLinux or Zenwalk]. There doesn't seem to be enough niche space for all three (Salix OS, VectorLinux, and Zenwalk) to equally prosper. And this last sentiment brings me to...
• OpenMandriva Lx- I'm not certain what the exact role of this distribution is. Mandriva SA bases is server product on Mageia, and while its OEM product will presumably be based on OpenMandriva Lx at some point in the future, it seems it would be in Mandriva SA's best interest to base that product on Mageia as well. OpenMandriva Lx doesn't really bring anything to the table that ROSA Desktop doesn't, save perhaps drakconf/Mandriva Control Center, which ROSA Desktop has shed in favor of KDE's System Settings, etc. It appears Moondrake GNU/Linux will be joining ROSA and OpenMandriva in this urpmi distro running of the bulls as well. I really think there is just enough demand for two post-Mandrakelinux distributions (i.e. those that will inherit the legacy of and serve as continuity for the ecosystem of the Mandrakelinux of old), these being 1) Mageia for those people who prefer the pre-2011 Mandriva Linux feel and direction, and 2) ROSA Desktop (or OpenMandriva Lx or Moondrake GNU/Linux, but only one of those three) for those people who prefer the 2011 and later ROSA-influenced look and development. Considering that it is ROSA's ABF that is being used and that ROSA provides much of the user-facing customization that finds its way into the ROSA-OpenMandriva-Moondrake distributions, in my mind ROSA is the likely candidate of these three to survive. I guess time will tell, but I think Mageia will survive because it has the community resources, and I think ROSA will survive because it has the financial resources. All of the other urpmi distributions will hobble along as best they can, and, over time, some will surely fall by the wayside, despite the hard work of their very dedicated contributors.
As far as the OpenMandriva Lx Beta, when I installed it for a quick look, the Kickoff, Homerun, SimpleWelcome, and Lancelot menu widgets were all displayed in the panel. I hope this serves some testing purpose, and won't find its way into the final release. One default menu is sufficient for those of us without dissociative identity disorder. The list of repos also had to be populated, something that was fixed with at least the last ROSA Desktop Fresh release I looked at, and attempting to update resulted in a prompt that key packages (ex. urpmi) would be removed. A rough beta. OpenMandriva Lx ends up looking like a remix of ROSA Desktop. Somehow both Mageia and ROSA Desktop come off as closer relatives of the various iterations of Mandriva Linux than OpenMandriva Lx does itself. I don't want a Linux world that only has room for one distribution, anymore than I want an open-source world that only has room for one OS, but I don't think there is always demand enough to support multiple very similar distributions.
34 • @13 Naming convention (by greenpossum on 2013-10-22 06:47:09 GMT from Australia)
>It may sound incredible, and I don't know how they are not loosing their mind by doing so...
>I think it just to make decision makers feeling more comfortable, as they may think that it is more stable this way...
It's more than that, dependencies may break if the version number is changed. So they change just the patch level even though the package contains code from a more recent version. I pity the developers who have to keep this straight in their minds.
35 • Zenwalk (by FrustratedwithZenwalk on 2013-10-22 09:59:50 GMT from Canada)
Zenwalk generally worked well if you stuck with the GUI and used the default packages. In addition to problems mentioned in previous comments, there were problems with the default choice of packages. For example, including the brain-dead Brasero instead of something functional like xcdroast or K3b. Ever try modifying default behaviour in Brasero? No way to modify file system support, add translation index, etc. If you drop down to the command-line to use mkisofs and growisofs, you find they've subbed cdrkit and symlinked everything to the former. Then if you try and install xcdroast, you find it does not get along well with these subsititutions.
One of the attractions of Zenwalk was that it was lightweight, but included the full compiler system, but when you actually compiled anything, you had to fix paths and such. It got to a point where rather than fixing the deviant behaviour, it was more time efficient to simply go back to using Slackware and doing a custom install. Everything compiles and works properly, there is an intelligent selection of packages, and no dependency hell (as found in various rpm-deb-based-distros).
Have played around with Puppy-Slacko, and for a LIVE, light-weight distro, it is impressive. Another light-weight, Slack-based distro one may want to look at is Absolute Linux. If you just need to throw something simple on an old PC for someone coming from Windows, and they just need to send the odd email, or write a letter, it will do the job, plus, compilation of source works properly.
Guess I'll have to have a look at Salix. The main attraction would be for a minimal portable and live version of Slackware (although Puppy-Slacko seems to have filled that need for now).
36 • @22 (by debian only on 2013-10-22 10:42:10 GMT from Indonesia)
Oh sure, have you installed Kubuntu 13.04 on 22 PC and laptop without internet connection? Tell me how do I installed multimedia codecs without internet connection? Netrunner does it better than Kubuntu. But I choose Kwheezy, why it's all there. I don't need to download anything. Even if it needs to download anything from it's repo, I don't have to download that goddamn multimedia codecs that is not compatible with K3b.
No I'm not against Ooboo family, I use Ubuntu after the dead of Dreamlinux. And moved to Debian after the end Gnome 2.x on Ubuntu.
37 • Answers. (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-22 12:15:13 GMT from United States)
@36,
" have you installed Kubuntu 13.04 on 22 PC and laptop without internet connection?"
Kubuntu and many distros can be installed without an internet connection.I never use an internet connection when I install.
"Tell me how do I installed multimedia codecs without internet connection?"
Get a friend to download the codec multimedia packs that many distros have in their repositories. Then install like you would any other deb file.
"I don't need to download anything."
Just curious. How did you get Kwheezy in the first place if you didn't download it?
"I don't have to download that goddamn multimedia codecs that is not compatible with K3b."
Unknown variables.
"No I'm not against Ooboo family,"
Okay, you like Debian, or rather Kwheezy. Then what other point am I missing?
I am interested in the multimedia codecs problem with K3b.
38 • Answers to answers. (by dbrion on 2013-10-22 12:26:09 GMT from France)
"Get a friend to download the codec multimedia packs that many distros have in their repositories. Then install like you would any other deb file."
* Thi scannot work if there are dependencies... (friends are not supposed to have this notion -nor to be begged for services- ... else one might lose friends). BTW Debian was more user-friendly than Fedora : one can know the list of dependencies of one application without downloading it : this can be very useful for people having no direct connection and downloading ***by themselves**)
* This might be expensive (depends on the countries)
"Just curious. How did you get Kwheezy in the first place if you didn't download it?"
The answer to this rhetorical question may be found in other "answers" (installation iso-es are hoped to have each and every dependency satisfied; at least I hope and never met an exception).
39 • Politics and or Religion (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-22 12:33:32 GMT from United States)
When you start referring to a developers politics when talking about Linux distributions then you start delving into something that really should be irrelevant. It works the same with a person's religious beliefs. A person cannot and should not focus on the developers political and religious views unless there is an unhealthy extremism which I'm sure you can figure out what that means. These Linux distros are developed by people throughout the world who have different views on every aspect of life. I sure we could find something we don't like about all the developers if we look hard enough. That really shouldn't be our concern. Of course it is our right to express our views but this is not the place to do it. This is more of a tech site than a blog and it should remain that way.
40 • Linux in the Navy (by janusz on 2013-10-22 13:20:55 GMT from Poland)
I just read in Linux Today that the newest, $ 3.5 bn USS Zumwalt will be powered by Red Hat as far as all software is concerned. This should drive another nail in Micronots coffin - and namely, that a system designed to spy on and control its users is a clear and open danger to all military units that still use it. If governments can buy the MS Keys for their local Windowz versions, then surely some governments other than the US Gov already are able to remotely deactivate all Windowz versions. The Redmond Monster grew from a brave and fair little David fighting the Goliath (IBM) to become a Godzilla that devours its childresn, but thankfully, it already starts eating its own tail.
41 • @24 Chrome (by Rev_Don on 2013-10-22 14:41:22 GMT from United States)
Quote: "Why don't more distros feature Chrome instead of Firefox? I personally will NOT try a distro with Firefox. Waste of my time having to go through Synaptic to download Chrome(Chromium)."
My question is why don't more distros feature Firefox instead of Chrome? While having Chrome instead of Firefox will not prevent me from trying a distro, I much prefer Firefox (Chrome/Chromium is just too limiting for me to use as a default browser). You can't have choice without having to accept some compromises. Unless I do a net install I end up having to remove about 1/4 to 1/3 of the software included in the base install of most distros then install my preferred apps.
I could say the same for VLC, K3b, LibreOffice, and any number of other apps I prefer. Finding a distro that has EXACTLY the apps, desktop, window manager, accessories, themes, etc. that I want is essentially impossible. To me it's just the cost of running Linux. You can't please everyone so my advice to you is to grow up and deal with it. You'll never be able to change peoples opinions on which browser is the best or which one should be included, although I would prefer they include both just to make it easier. The sizes of the ISO's are so large now that trying to keep them to a CD size is more and more rare so why not include both, but that is neither here nor there.
42 • @41 (by jaws222 on 2013-10-22 15:47:53 GMT from United States)
:You can't please everyone so my advice to you is to grow up and deal with it"
Exactly! That's what the package manager is for. If you don't like Firefox uninstall it and install Chromium and vice-versa. The beauty of Linux is in most cases it doesn't take up a lot of space you can even have both.
43 • @29 (by kc1di on 2013-10-22 16:51:52 GMT from United States)
Thanks for pointing out Point Linux. I've installed it and so far find it refreshing and a distro that I'll keep for awhile.
Cheers!
44 • “Hand of Thief” Trojan (by Scott on 2013-10-22 17:16:39 GMT from United States)
This thing is in its infancy, but certainly cause for concern.
https://blogs.rsa.com/thieves-reaching-for-linux-hand-of-thief-trojan-targets-linux-inth3wild/
My apologies if links aren't allowed.
45 • No more cause for concern then usual. (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-22 17:39:51 GMT from United States)
I just read up on this and cannot find any beneficial information on this Trojan. From what I've read, it seems that you could only have problems with this if you were real lax in your security. It seems to me as being a scam trying to scam the ones who scam. Could even be BS. Not enough info.
46 • A cup of tea (party) ;-) (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2013-10-22 17:49:07 GMT from Belgium)
Maybe Shuttleworth is just trying to blame others in order to justify (in advance) his own failure.
47 • @41, 42 (by Ika on 2013-10-22 17:52:13 GMT from Spain)
You missed the point: opening the package manager, installing and/or removing an app is sooo complicated and requires sooo much handwork... Especially with Synaptic in this case!... LOL LOL
48 • Nope (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-22 18:12:41 GMT from United States)
What makes you think he will fail Itchy? Hell people has been saying that for 10 years. It hasn't happened yet. ;-)
49 • Odds and ends (by Barnabyh on 2013-10-22 18:17:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Once the interface was pleasantly bland..." As a vanilla software guy this made me smile. Another fairly recent arrival offering Debian with KDE 4 is of course SolydK which seems a bit slimmer, cleaner on the desktop and overall better suited. There are quite a few nice choices now that have made me use a Debian base once again as I have less time now to play around with compiling and making things work. And on laptops with an SSD you'll want to be light on the writes and the battery and not use something that wants to compile updates all the time. Debian is perfect for this and very fast.
Zenwalk appears to me still faster than SalixOS in boot up and desktop responsiveness (both using XFCE). This would be a good reason to prefer it, particularly on P4's and less capable hardware. For this reason alone I hope it lives on.
50 • @ 17 dbrion (by Chanath on 2013-10-22 18:57:47 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I am NOT talking about ARM devices, but about ORDINARY laptops powered by Intel and AMD processors. I have ARM devices powered by Android, which is based on Linux. I also have a partition in my ordinary laptop that runs Android, along with many Linux distros and Windows 7 in other partitions. I also had Chromium OS (as in Chromebook) installed once, and that was thanks to Ubuntu 12.10
I don't have a touch screen Intel/AMD laptop yet. I'd like to have one, but not the System 76 one. I know that Ubuntu works with the touch screen. And, I am looking forward to Ubuntu's Mir, just as I looked forward to Unity and Gnome 3.
For me, Ubuntu is NOT the only Linux distro. I have Arch, Zabayon, OpenSuse, Zenwalk, and few other ones. I've been with Linux for quite a long time.
Please don't misconstrue what I write, dbrion. There would more and more touch screen laptops and tabs in the future. A decade ago, a laptop was a pretty expensive gadget, but its so cheap today. There are already Intel and AMD powered tabs, and quite inexpensive ones. I don't know, whether Arch, Fedora, Gentoo or Slackware etc would come up with touch screen enabled distros, but Ubuntu is already there. So, I am awaiting Mir.
51 • Touchscreens seem a minor case (by dbrion on 2013-10-22 19:26:20 GMT from France)
Well, touchscreens have existed for 25 years: in 1988 -one century ago- , I was advised **not** to use them (on PCs, with Intel inside), as touchscreens with big screens were _anti ergonomic_ : they can be used for short time (to automatically buy train tickets, to notice what people want to eat at a restaurant) but it is much more tiring than ordinary mices.
Unless you put the screen horizontally (some selling points in supermakets), one cannot use them for one hour.
Libraries to support touchscreens have been existing for a long time (I gave the link), had commercial success -though free- and was meant for small screens -there is a distinction between big screens and small ones: to understand it, put a bicycle wheel -or shoes, that would be funnier- as a car wheel-. I know Fedora ships it with her Intel/Arm version (just a rpmfind : your vast experience of distroes(hopping) will enable you to find it...).
And most of people do not expect touchscreen -enabled distroes for laptops and PCs (would be antiergonomic) with > 10" screens. And ARMs, with small screens (7") have been having touchscreen support for years .
Therefore, testing can be difficult for laptops/desktops -and tabs (oh, now, tabs are appearing! I thought you were taalking about laptops /desktops....) are expensive.
BTW : I doubt (software in uesr space to drive a touchscreen is very simple, and 8 bits avrs have been using it for years http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=22609.0) that Mir will have a long lasting monopoly on touchscreens -if it ever has : no crystall balls to know how bright the future is, factual errors w/r to the past being a burden -
52 • @50 Touch Screens (by Ron on 2013-10-22 19:27:18 GMT from United States)
What am I missing here? Why would one desire a touch screen laptop?
Typing: Hmm, 10 fingers verses one or two swipers, carpal tunnel elbo, spilled beer, I just cannot imagine what the reason would be for a touch screen laptop. Oh, yes I almost forgot to mention; potential slime bobs on the screen.
Please clue me in.
53 • @23 William Roddy (by Chanath on 2013-10-22 23:54:45 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Tea party or not, I agree with Mark Shuttleworth. The people, who are against Mir are either those, who can't make a DE like Mir, or those, who want Ubuntu to fail. When Unity DE came, there was such a shout against it by few individuals, but did Unity die? It grew and used by few millions. There are users, who absolutely love it, and they are not the ones, who whine.
Those, who don't really like progress whine.
Ubuntu gives you the Gnome edition, which contains a very good Gnome 2 like session for those, who want to stay in the past.
Mark Shuttleworth speaks straight, and most people can't bear that. He won't stop just because some people whine, and if Mir won't work, he'd find another one. We need progress, and we should applaud the person, who goes for that progress.
54 • @53 (by linux user on 2013-10-23 01:37:15 GMT from United States)
You do realize that Mir is not a DE (desktop environment) ....it's a display server.
55 • 29 • Point Linux by fernbap (by Bill on 2013-10-23 01:40:10 GMT from United States)
@29 • Point Linux
"Ive been using Point Linux 2.2, and so far It has been flawless.. If you are interested in a distro based on Debian Stable, with up to date apps...and enjoy the "old" MATE+Compiz+Emerald environment while remaining rock solid, light and fast."
...
You are so right, I've been playing around with it, working it hard for about 12 hours now and it's GREAT! I can't find a flaw. And considering that compiz is almost completely out of most of the new 13.0+ OS repositories, how nice that they put compiz and emerald back in!! Here is my setup complete w/compiz, emerald, and all the special effects from days gone by:
https://backup.filesanywhere.com/FS/M.aspx?v=8970648c5e939f77a296
56 • @ 52 & 54 (by Chanath on 2013-10-23 01:57:51 GMT from Sri Lanka)
@52,
A decade or so ago, I didn't want a laptop, considering it is too bulky and opted for a desktop computer. Today, my desktop is the 15.5" laptop. I can lug it around the house and the garden, if the need is real, I can even take it with me. But, I bought myself a "netbook", lighter than a book, and that became my travelling companion.
Then, the Android 7" tab became the travelling companion. Now, the Yoga 11 had become my computer on the lap. It doesn't heat up. The battery lives more than 12 hours with one charge.
I would love to discard my heavy, ordinary laptop and buy a touch screen System 76 Ubuntu with AMD--I can use the "normal" applications--and also with 6 hours battery life. But, it is way too expensive.
And, there is another very serious problem with all Linux laptops; poor battery life.
@54,
Oh, does that matter, how I called Mir? What is nice is that Ubuntu is doing something to develop the Linux world, and it doesn't use your or my money to do so.
57 • @24 Chrome? Yuck (by Smellyman on 2013-10-23 02:09:42 GMT from Hong Kong)
and people complain about Ubuntu spying......
Not only is Mozilla the shining beacon of open source and free software, it is imo much much better than Chrome/ium. I can see how people get sucked in to google but it is not for me.
58 • @ #29 - Point Linux 2.2 (by Az4x4 on 2013-10-23 03:09:08 GMT from United States)
Quote: 29 • Point Linux (by fernbap on 2013-10-21 23:16:20 GMT from Portugal) I have been using Point Linux 2.2, and so far It has been flawless......it gives me the sensation of "LMDE done right".
I couldn't agree more! Debian based Point Linux has become the desktop OS of choice on all three of my laptops, replacing LMDE without breaking a sweat. Still love LMDE, but had problems with it in certain situations that Point Linux takes in stride. Peter has put together a top notch desktop offering for those who enjoy a rock solid Debian based desktop that runs without so much as a hiccup!..
59 • RE 56 : matters of common sense (by dbrion on 2013-10-23 08:28:37 GMT from France)
"Oh, does that matter, how I called Mir?" (i.e : you wrote it was a DE as it might become a display server)
Well, when I buy a car, it would matter to me if I was sold ... a would be engine (no seats, no air conditioner). Even if money was not involved, it would matter...
"And, there is another very serious problem with all Linux laptops; poor battery life."
Well, if one buys a Windows laptop, and puts some GNU-linux on it (via unetbootin or one installs it on an external drive/USB stick : I use both), one usually notices the time to discharge the battery is about the same (I use the same applications; there were ACPI issues with GNUlinux and some laptops in 2003-2004, they have been fixed a decade ago). What I noticed (and it was an unfair test, as I added external dvices which eat milliamps) is consistent with anybody test ... unless too much distro(s)hopping leads to weird settings.
For a battery life expectancy : it is a hardware issue, and has nothing to do with OS issues; messing up everything can lead to poor choices, and a terrific mixture of hardware and software issues...
60 • @36 & @37 (by deadman on 2013-10-23 10:22:43 GMT from Indonesia)
Let the man choose what distro they want. Isn't that the essence of Linux? I agree with @4, X-Slacko is the best. Especially after I replace xfce with fluxbox.
61 • i think (by luko on 2013-10-23 12:12:26 GMT from Slovakia)
hi folks, i think zenwalk was great, and has potencial to future.zenwalk allways was distro with new software, allsways there was new xfce and one app soft. i think best for zenwalk was switch to pure compatible with slackware current and allways bring to people new xfce with predefined apps.
1) compatible with slackware like salix, but different with thi that will be have allways new software (slackware current)
2) 64bit version pure
becouse there doesnt is man power to develop 32 and 64 , i prefer slckware core with zen spirit, oh zenwalk spirit
62 • @ 59 dbrion of France (by Chanath on 2013-10-23 13:54:34 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Dbrion, I find you love to fight. Do you know, when we write comments here, sometimes we forget to read the whole thing, before we click enter. I added DE to Mir, while you misspelled "supported." We are all human.
Do I care, whether Mir is this or that, but I know Mir would be good. Some people didn't didn't like Gnome 3 and Unity, and were whining. I remember Clem of Linux Mint had quite a lot of criticism to Gnome 3, but he needed Gnome 3 to make his Cinnamon. Today, Gnome 3 is sort of not needed to make Cinnamon work, Good for him, but how many would be using Cinnamon, well, on touch screens?
I don't buy Windows laptop, as you say, but usually OS-less laptops. In both countries I live, I can buy such laptops. Sometimes I get the "Windows OS" officially installed, but without paying the Windows tax. I don't know how it is in France, though.
Only problem is there won't be a touch screen laptop without an OS in it, Windows or Ubuntu. I haven't heard about any such laptops with Arch, Fedora, OpenSuse, Gentoo, Slackware, Mageia etc. Have you?
Now, when you are partitioning your hard disk, try NTFS or FAT 32, and what you get? Practically fully free partition. What happens, when you partition with Ext2, 3 or 4? They eat lots of MBs.
Battery life, Dbrion, depends on the OS, rather than the device. I have noticed the Windows 7 having more time on one battery charge than our Linux distros.
I still like my Linix distros, and I would love to see them grow. Ubuntu is going forward in developing new "things", while others stay back with old fashioned DEs, X and whatnot. KDE based distros are very pretty, but they still remind me of Windows XP, plasma or not.
63 • @62 (by Davide on 2013-10-23 14:31:05 GMT from Italy)
By default the 5% of an ext2/3/4 formatted partition is reserved to root user. Try tune2fs -m 0 -r 0 /dev/<your partition> and you'll see a lot more space.
64 • @48 (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2013-10-23 15:09:56 GMT from Belgium)
Well, he founded a private company 10 years ago. That company is still not profitable and so he has been spending his private fortune in a, so far, ruinous firm. In a capitalist world that tends to be called failure. In terms of technology, Canonical has not contributed much either. They always arrive late and with poorer quality standards as compared to the real businesses. Canonical main (and great!) contribution this far was to show that free software does not necessarily have to be a geek business, that it is ready to be mainstream. I will give them that, but even in that department they are loosing ground...
65 • "new things", battery life (by dbrion on 2013-10-23 15:13:46 GMT from France)
"Battery life, Dbrion, depends on the OS, rather than the device."
Well, That is a great discovery.
Or a funny one ...
In most cases, battery life depends ... on the battery (...), on the devices it supplies, on the applications one is running (do they activate disks? do they crunch numbers? do they wait for a key being hit?) , and on the background tasks (then, if one enables, say, nepomuk indexing on GNUlinux -or antiviruses on W$-, battery life becomes sometimes shorter as it accesses disks: that is not a matter of OS, but of tweaking; each and every other points are OS-agnostic ... like dumb bIatteries). Poor support for ACPI was known, in Linux, about ten years ago .. and has been fixed.. Remains poor tweaking, if there are differences...
BTW : battery life comparison should be done on the same PC, with the same battery, with -about- the same applications ; then , one might to draw conclusions about an OS being superior to another with some hope of being believed (as you can find linux enabled PCs, and W$ ones, you compare apples and bananas..: I found a __slightly___ longer battery life , on the same PC, with the same battery, doing about the same thing, when it was GNU/Linux run than under W7).
And choosing GNUlinux is not a matter of DE - fashion (new DEs are terrific, as they try to mimic "smart" "phones" on big screens, losing much ofthe functionalities of older DEs).
And I doubt (maybe it will come with Mir, maybe it will be somewhat satisfying: no crystal balls ) touchscreen support is a
"new "thing" " : free libraries have been existing for ...years (in the 8 and 32 bits worlds); touchscreen has been existing for ...centuries -though it was known as antiergonomic, therefore, it was not fashionable...)
66 • ex-Zenwalker (by Marc on 2013-10-23 15:16:13 GMT from Spain)
I used to be a Zenwalk happy user. It brings my old laptop back to life when Xubuntu turns to be too heavy for it. But I left two years ago as I needed newer software, and better support. I'm using antiX (Debian testing derivative) right now and I'm happy with it... saddly!
Cheers
67 • kwhezzy taming it down (by Loyal on 2013-10-23 15:21:42 GMT from Thailand)
Thanks JEsse on your editorial. How did you tame down Kwhezzy? I really want to try out kde. But i am one of the beginners overwelmed by the amount of software and the busy interface. But I am a mewbie. Can you give any suggestions? (I want to introduce my children's school to linux so I am looking at KDE but myself run only xfce.)
Thanks
Loyal
68 • @66 (by jaws222 on 2013-10-23 15:49:13 GMT from United States)
Try Crunchbang. Very fast and only 256mb of RAM required.
69 • Re : Chanath and dbrion (by Kazlu on 2013-10-23 16:51:19 GMT from France)
Chanath : Your questioning about the possibility to get a Windows-less PC is right : in France, it is almost impossible to buy a PC without Windows in a shop. Although I did buy an Ubuntu netbook online. Therefore, getting GNU/Linux running on a PC often means Windows was there before. That being said, I also encountered different battery lifetime between Windows and GNU/Linux on the same computer but this was mainly due to the lack of decent drivers on recent hardware. After a release or two of Ubuntu the hardware gets better support and you can then profit from the (usually) lower ressource heaviness of GNU/Linux to increase your battery life. Some hardware gets good support right away though.
About file systems : ext3 and ext4 are journalised file systems, meaning more or less that files to be written are first written in a temporary zone, then to the final intended zone of the hard drive, with date checking. The eaten MBs are used for that temporary zone. That way in case of a problem while copying a file, the zone where the file was supposed to be is not considered occupied and can be overwritten. NTFS and FAT32 are not journalised, so in case of problem you end up with a fraction of a file that cannot be exploited nor deleted and wastes your disk space along with a file name that is no longer available. ext2 is not journalised either, so you shouldn't have as much MBs eaten, although @63 Davide says there is space used for root user, so MBs may be eaten, but less than ext3/4.
dbrion : like I said, the OS in itself can indeed make a difference as far as battery life is concerned, since the efficiency of the drivers may not be the same between the two OSes (particularly CPU frequency management).
You don't see the point of touch screens on laptops, well for me it depends. On a stock laptop, I would agree, though for some actions a touch screen may help when you don't have anything but a stupid touchpad. However we start to see hybrid PC/tablets appearing, that are well served with touch screens. I also am curious to see what happens with GNU/Linux in this category, although I don't need that for the moment.
70 • That's not quite correct, maybe. (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-23 17:22:39 GMT from United States)
@64,
"That company is still not profitable and so he has been spending his private fortune in a, so far, ruinous firm." That could be true but,.......
How can you know that? You can't for it is a private company. A lot of people have their own little speculations but without hard data, which they don't have, it's just guesswork and that my friend are the facts. Anyway it's not any concern of mine. As far as the rest of your statement that is just personal opinion which I happen to disagree with. I've had people state so called facts on both sides of the fence so I leave those statements alone also because people will believe what they want to believe, no matter what the facts are, so, why are we even talking about it?
71 • Battery life (by Ika on 2013-10-23 17:35:08 GMT from Spain)
I have a HP Pavilion laptop which I bought with Windows 7 pre-installed. Still need this OS for some programs not running nor having equivalent in GNU/Linux world. But have installed Linux in dual (multi) boot. The OS I settled on after a lot of distro-hoping is PCLinuxOS, though, occasionally am trying other systems.
So, having tried and trying many GNU/Linux operating systems with different DEs/WMs the battery life is ONLY a half the time as running Windows. And this with Windows watching movies, or streaming, or any other works, while in Linux running nothing, just the empty desktop! As I said, no matter which OS and DE/WM! Watching a movie the battery life is reduced to onl a quarter!
Now, the machine have hybrid graphics and one might say this is the cause of the short life, t this affects Windows system too.
Still not tried yet BSD, nor a distro shipping a micro-kernel, like MINIX for example...
72 • @67 Loyal (by Ika on 2013-10-23 17:44:05 GMT from Spain)
Maybe you might consider giving a try to PCLinuxOS. Is really user friendly - not only the OS, but the forum too :) - while very stable and with the advantage of being a rolling release.
73 • On the influence of distro shopping on bactery life (by dbrion on 2013-10-23 17:54:13 GMT from France)
Distro shopping does not lead to long bactery lives : as one forgets to remove some tasks (nepomuck, say: one should look at the background tasks) and prefers to switch from one distro to another ( superficially concluding the preceeding did not work) , batteries get overused... (I got very little differences between W7, Scientific, Mageias and Fedoras on a MSI wind -simple graphical drivers-: they were slightly in favor of GNUlinuxen, though I used heavily the NTFS internal partition , did some number crunching, and linuxen were copied/installed on external drives, eating some milliamps ).
I am not afraid of what will hapen with GNU:linux and (unneeded, IMO) touch screens: it is not a complicated hardware and difficulties will be less than those linked with graphical drivers...
74 • ubuntuGNOME (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-23 18:56:43 GMT from United States)
Has anybody here done a review on ubuntuGNOME. It seems that a review is done on every new release except ubuntuGNOME. If anybody knows of one, drop me a link.
Thanks,
Eddie
75 • Firefox (and Iceweazel) cookie handling, compared to Chrome (by Jordan on 2013-10-23 21:28:45 GMT from United States)
That's what I like about Firefox.
You can get into it in a bit of depth with FF. The default in FF is pretty much all you get in Chrome.
76 • Shuttleworth comments (by M.Z. on 2013-10-23 21:32:08 GMT from United States)
One thing that some people from outside the US don't get is that it's very politically incorrect in the US to bring our politics up in international contexts, and a lot of Americans don't like it when people from other places bring our politics up. Americans often expect each other to give direct political opinions, but never in front of people from outside the US. It probably isn't very smart of Shuttleworth or other open source figures from outside the US to bring up stuff like the tea party for that reason, it's just not likely to be appreciated here even if you agree with the sentiment entirely. All that being said, I as an American skeptic of Mir am mostly offended by being compared to the tea party. No one deserves to be called that, but oh well.
77 • @70 Re:profitability (by :wq on 2013-10-23 23:25:31 GMT from United States)
This short article from earlier this year cites Shuttleworth- http://www.internetnews.com/blog/skerner/canonical-ubuntu-linux-is-still-not-profitable.html
78 • #29 Point Linux (by Kubelik on 2013-10-24 01:06:36 GMT from Denmark)
Point Linux is not "LMDE done right". Point Linux is based on Debian Stable. LMDE is based on Debian Testing. All the problems with LMDE is Mint's attempt to adopt their extras to a more or less rolling distro. Debian Testing is reasonably stable. LMDE is not.
79 • #33 • Distributions on the bubble (by Kubelik on 2013-10-24 01:10:55 GMT from Denmark)
Thanks :wq for your exposé. I think you got it all right :)
80 • PureOS (by :wq on 2013-10-24 02:35:33 GMT from United States)
Well, after having waited several weeks to see if its status would change, and shortly after I mentioned it being down, I see that the website for PureOS has been resurrected. It's a conspiracy :p The site will probably be promptly closed again now that I've said it's back.
A few of the "dormant" and "discontinued" distributions even occasionally show signs of life; keeping track of it all must sometimes feel like herding cats for the DW team.
81 • Ubuntu GNOME review (by Kazlu on 2013-10-24 09:20:27 GMT from France)
I second #74 LinuxMan : although it is normal there was no Ubuntu GNOME review yet (after all, it's only the second release that just got out, and review the very first one could lead to unmerited flaw spotting inherent to a debuting distro), I find interesting to review Ubuntu GNOME 13.10. In my opinion, one review for all the Ubuntu derivatives is enough. It was a smart move last time to try Ubuntu 13.04 then Kubuntu 13.04 because Unity was laggy. Ubuntu GNOME is a good candidate to review the 13.10 edition and to evaluate that new pure GNOME derivative.
82 • Point Linux (#78, #29) (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-24 14:14:20 GMT from United States)
"LMDE done right" - maybe using Stable is the Point? It's certainly lean. Seems polished, or at least less primitive than most new DebIan spins, at first glance.
83 • SolusOS (by jaws222 on 2013-10-24 14:16:21 GMT from United States)
Looks like SolusOS is closing shop. It's a shame. I was really looking forward to SolusOS 2.
http://forums.solusos.com/
84 • Zenwalk (by digger on 2013-10-24 14:24:59 GMT from United States)
Used it off and on for years. Never had problems; even installed iton an old laptop for my mom, who was able to se it fine, although I eventually replaced it with Debian stable. Development has been glacial recently and I've also played with Salix, and now use SolydX on my lappy.
85 • @81 /Gnome? (by M.Z. on 2013-10-24 16:05:49 GMT from United States)
I've lost so much respect for the Gnome project since version 3 came out that I no longer want to know unless they've actually totally reworked it. Given all the hidden buttons & magical thinking that went into the design of the modern Gnome 'desktop', all I really want to hear is that it's reverted to being as good out of the box as Gnome 2 or KDE. Unfortunately they've settled on a 'bold new design paradigm' at Gnome & now nothing less is acceptable. They'll allow you to tack on have measures & minor fixes later, but they refuse to make the core design any less broken. Gnome used to be a good general desktop, but now they're only worth discussing as a novelty niche desktop with a few interesting design changes. It definitely doesn't seem like a general purpose desktop to me, it's more like they've adopted a few specialty design goals, like ratpoison but focused on looking like a touch UI, & now these specialty design features are good enough for everyone. No thanks.
86 • Ubuntu not profitable (by LinuxMan on 2013-10-24 16:08:30 GMT from United States)
@77,
Thanks for the link. So, Canonical doesn't make a profit with the Ubuntu desktop distribution. I don't really see how you can take a desktop version of a linux distribution and become profitable. Redhat's not a good example because they are in to servers and support and not general consumers. It's the same way for Suse. I will not include Fedora or openSuse in the mix because they are testbed distributions and are not moneymakers at all. There is more besides the desktop or server market. There's the mobile market. Tablets and Smartphones. I would hate to think that there are no more slots in the mobile market for any more players. Are we just going to have to bow down to the Apple, Microsoft, Google conglomerate? Are we to believe the FUD about the market already being saturated? I guess that time will tell. You "will" say that I won't be held hostage by these entities but not too far in the future you may not have a choice. It is true that Android is open source but the layer on top of the Android core is pure proprietary Google. You "will not" have a choice. That's what strikes me so wrong about the attacks on Canonical by the so called opensource community. The opensource community "wants" Canonical to fail. Why? Canonical is aggressive, they change according to the business market, they want to make a profit and become successful, they gear their research and development toward the mobile market, where the profit would be, and they are a corporation. Their business plan is not centered around the open source community who more often than not say, "It's my way or the highway", and they are hated for that. What about Redhat, or Suse. Their success is based on the business community, the corporate world. They make no money from the opensource community, both have done questionable things and yet are still not hated. I know the reason. Canonical with Ubuntu are the only ones that targeting the general public with their products. There's the rub. The opensource community with their free software always mentality feels slighted. If Canonical was to fail then Linux on the desktop would not be an option, nor would there be any alternative mobile options for the general public and the opensource community would not care, but there are ones that Canonical's failure would make very happy. Apple, Microsoft, and Google.
87 • @82 Point Linux (by fernbap on 2013-10-24 16:55:41 GMT from Portugal)
"maybe using Stable is the Point?"
I guess so. I always thought that LMDE should be based on Stable. I think Point Linux shows that the idea has merit.
You can take a look at another example: Crunchbang started as a Ubuntu respin, and at some point the decision was made to switch their base to Debian stable. That's when Crunchbang began to sore.
I know there is a psychologic issue here. Version numbers, specially the kernel version. We love to discuss numbers and using a higher number makes you feel ahead of the others. But in most cases, numbers are no garantee that you are moving forwards.
88 • @86 (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2013-10-24 17:59:02 GMT from Belgium)
Criticism is not hate. I personally wish all possible success to any company whose business model is genuinely based upon free software, which has been the case for Canonical this far. My criticism intends to be constructive. They are making mistakes and they do not listen to the community because Canonical is a typical case of the "one guy with a vision" kind of stuff. And I really, really, wish to be wrong on this one, but, just in case, I just wanted to share with you my personal analysis. Maybe you are right and it is just a pile of bull. However, everything that has happened up to know kind-off seems to confirm my worst concerns...
89 • Zenwalk (netpkg?) (by Onuca Victore Doefil on 2013-10-24 20:01:13 GMT from Mexico)
I remember five years ago there was a disruption in the Zenwalk environment. Developers were discussing each others but they couldn't solve their problems. I remember, especially, a discussión over the package management in Zenwalk, netpkg, and how some developers wanted to replace it and some others didn't.
Zenwalk was a really neat distro. I owned an old PC with a VIA Cyrix III processor running at 800 MHz that couldn't manage GNOME, but Zenwalk was perfect in it. SiS video card included was horrible, but I could go to a TTY and play videos flawlessly with mplayer under zenwalk... great times for Zenwalk those early 2000s.
90 • SolusOS - brooding, not dead (#83) (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-24 20:07:23 GMT from United States)
Seems rather impatient to declare any distro "dead" after only a week or two of apparent inactivity, especially when the last word was to expect a major re-design.
91 • Oops, should've looked first! (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-24 20:11:10 GMT from United States)
Sad, that. First promise of serious packaging progress in years, perhaps decades - hopefully the vision won't die, rather be shared with whatever communities are open to it.
92 • @86 (by :wq on 2013-10-25 02:39:59 GMT from United States)
I wouldn't say that Red Hat and Attachmate/SUSE aren't hated by some. Remember boycottnovell.com? Granted, much of that enmity was from the Novell days over the joint patent agreement with Microsoft, as well reservations about Mono, but there were also concerns over the sale of IP assets to CPTN Holdings LLC (whose members include Apple, Microsoft, and Oracle) when Novell was acquired by Attachmate. As for Red Hat, some dislike Red Hat for leaving the consumer desktop market, others hold Red Hat responsible for software (such as systemd, GNOME 3, PulseAudio) they dislike (for various reasons) which has to varying degrees (see the respective projects for specifics) been developed by some Red Hat employees. More recently, both slightly before and after the NSA scandal, I've seen some implying that Red Hat should be deemed more suspect or less suitable than companies headquartered in other lands. All three companies (Canonical, Red Hat, SUSE) also received mixed reactions to how they dealt with the secure boot issue. It's really not worth addressing the political gamesmanship, water-cooler melodrama, and intractable prejudices that seem to rear their heads from time to time. There is plenty of dislike to be had, regardless of the particulars. There are probably even people who loathe distributions aimed at children.
I would gather that a saving grace for any company involved in open-source development is whether it is perceived as being a (mostly) good community citizen and the perception of what it gives back. I'm not voicing support for anybody here, except perhaps SCO, which I think we can all agree, during its spiral around the drain, did more to support GNU/Linux than any other company, or all other companies in history combined for that matter. But it's understandable that other companies can't measure up to SCO's level of greatness.
93 • SolusOS (by :wq on 2013-10-25 02:44:49 GMT from United States)
I wanted SolusOS to do well, but the project seemed to wander all over the map with SolusOS 2, with some scope creep and more self-imposed work than manpower permitted. I hope Ikey Doherty finds his way to contributing to another distro project sometime in the future.
94 • SolusOS, DescentOS, etc (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-25 04:58:15 GMT from United States)
It's a rare supernova that garners enough community; most wink out all too soon, cutting the rest off from each other in the process. (TexStar is one notable exception.) Divided we fall ...
95 • @ 69 Kazlu of France (by Chanath on 2013-10-25 05:57:10 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Thank you for the information on ext 2/3/4 partitioning. Whether journalised or not, I am not that happy at losing 500-600 MB on a partition, when it comes to a partition that keeps data. External hard disks come in either NTFS or Fat 32, and I was thinking why. It must be not just because that's Windows, so I keep 2 partitions in NTFS in my hard disk. Linux distros can read them, so no need to have them in ext 2/3/4. I know, we have massive storage hard disks, but most times, we need more and more space.
When we use the usb stick to burn a iso, we have to have that formatted in FAT 32, otherwise we can't use Unetbootin, and if we use the dd method, after a while the usb stick dies. I've been looking at quite a lot of Linux distros for past few years, so I know how many usb sticks I had to throw away, after doing dd method.
Usually our normal laptop batteries work about 3-4 hours, if we use the charging procedure correctly. I read about Ubuntu touch screen laptops with bigger battery life, and that's about 5-6 hours. You see, I didn't think about this battery life that much, as my laptop was practically a desktop, so when it needs, I charge the battery. But, lately I was given a touch screen laptop with an unusual OS, Windows 8RT, which runs more than 12 hours on battery. That made me think about battery life and search about it.
In my experience the Linux distros eat the battery faster. This is an area the Linux distro developers must do something. I've been with Linus so long, I am not ready to change to Windows. But, this Windows 8 RT really gnawing at me. This is the first laptop, I had kept on my lap. It doesn't heat at all. The other "normal" laptops are never been laptops, as we just can't keep them on our laps.
The touch screen evolution is coming up very fast, so we need touch screen adapted Linux distros, and also with longer battery life.
Its a pity you can't buy OS-less laptops is France. You can buy them quite freely across two borders from France, in Poland. If you want to order one, check this website: http://allegro.pl/laptopy-491?a_mask%5B4327%5D%5B1%5D=1 I'm sure you have such Web sites in France too.
Have a good day!
96 • @86 /Canonical (by M.Z. on 2013-10-25 07:10:14 GMT from United States)
I'd just about guarantee you that Mint & some of the other Ubuntu based distros would find a way to make something else work for them if Canonical disappeared tomorrow. There is a lot of great work that goes into the Ubuntu base, but the same can be said for its parent disto Debian and a lot of other distros that aren't even even related to Debian or Ubuntu. They raised the bar for desktop Linux over at Ubuntu a few years back, and there is no denying that; however, that doesn't mean that they should be immune to legitimate criticism. As for your claim about the lack of alternatives for a phone OS, well that's demonstrably false as the existence of Firefox OS based smartphones proves it. There are also other projects like Tizen and webOS that offer a Linux based solution for smartphones. Canonical has accomplished some significant stuff, but they are not the only game in town. They do however have seem to have a way of inducing more competition in the Linux world, which means they still do some good despite the spyware BS that they pull.
97 • @95 Chanath (by Kazlu on 2013-10-25 09:29:40 GMT from France)
About file systems : I made a mistake, NTFS IS a journalised file system. However, on non-system partitions, the journal is not enabled by default (according to wikipedia). That explains the not eaten MBs. However, if it is true that GNU/Linux are able to read/write on NTFS drives, they cannot manage nor journalisation (irrelevant for external hard drives or data partitions if journalisation is disabled) neither permissions management. That may cause some security issues. That being said, the file system to adopt for an external hard drive must also take into account the use you have of it: if the drive is only to be used with GNU/Linux systems, it is a good idea to use ext3/4 (or ext2, which is not journalised so you do not lose MBs) as it prevents malwares or thiefs to mess your data up. But if the drive must also be used with Windows or another device (such as TVs, set-top-boxes...), ext2/3/4 will probably not be supported (although some ext2/3 drivers exist for Windows). Until recently I have used NTFS for data partitions but progressively I switch to ext, except for one external hard drive which is subject to be used by several different devices, but on this one no sensible data is stored (security issues). Since I do not use Windows any longer and GNU/Linux cannot format partitions in NTFS, next time I will have to use FAT32, but the file size limitation to 4GB is a problem for large file such as videos...
Finally, you are absolutely right to use FAT32 on USB sticks : journalised file systems require more write operations on the disk which ruins flash memory, the memory type used in USB sticks (along with SD cards and SSDs). This is similar to what you experienced with dd apparently. But does dd not require the file system to be FAT32 too ?
98 • #97 - Yes, we can. (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-25 13:50:44 GMT from United States)
Linux formats in NTFS - IF you want it to. It's just not popular. Consider the up-and-coming F2FS for flash. And no, dd can put any - or no - filesystem in place ... as it damages whatever filesystem was there before.
[rant]
I never suggest using a totally destructive low-level function like dd for normal operations like adding distros to USB flash storage devices. That wipes whatever filesystem was there before, often damaging the partition table in the process. It is a dodge for lazy cowards who don't want to work under the discipline of the presence of a filesystem with other data in it. Multibooters put multiple versions of a distro on one stick, using SysLinux, GrUB4dOS, or even GrUB - often because no one version works on all architectures.
Many potential Linux converts currently using that other distro - Microsoft Windows - should be given options that Windows won't bulldoze later, like putting the Linux bootloader in the root or boot partition and using grub2win (for XP) or EasyBCD to manage multi-booting in a compatible manner - instead of taking over the MBR with the same deliberate obnoxiousness Microsoft is hated for.
[/rant]
FAT32 is not the only filesystem for USB flash storage, and as file sizes and device capacities exceed its limits, tools for flash storage are adapting to other filesystems, usually NTFS first, driven by market size and demand.
[rant]
Speaking of which, the only reason Linux systems have been a respite from frequent malware harassment is the perceived small market size. It's just another computer system. Bad security discipline allows the same vulnerabilities. Lying about this should never be tolerated, especially in marketing hype.
[/rant]
99 • Touschscreen support was explained in March, 2007 + Linux PCs in France (by dbrion on 2013-10-25 13:52:40 GMT from France)
Well, one can find at least two GNU linux platforms (rather 5) France:
* Armadeus http://www.unixgarden.com/index.php/open-silicium/armadeus-project-linux-embarque-professionnel-accessible-a-tous was released and usable in 2007, with touch screen support . As Mulhouse has been in France since 1918 (and remained 90% of the time) ... it is in France ;
its price is .... 5-10 times higher.... than other GNU/linux based boards such as RPi , BeagleBone or PCduino -that make three others, one can find in many electronic component shops- , as it supports FPGA programming=interfacing , has better connectors (I am uneasy with RPis connectics) and has a limited niche -industry, teaching-. BTW : Touchscreens have been supported by GNU linxux since 6 or 7 years.... at least.... (GNULinuxMagazine France, in march 2007, explained how to wire and use a TFT +TS screen with Armadeus).
* Ordissimo is meant for very old people, who do not want to spend (the remainings of) their life in tweaking, installing software and repairing dependencies. It is based on Debian, administration by users being forbidden (not the audience)and it is ca 200 $ ...more expensive... than the same hardware with the infamous Window$ tax (the Window$ tax being replaced by support). It has a nice French keyboard, with each and every detail taken into account; I do not know whether sound is supported (the intended audience might be deaf).
Else, one can find GNU linux PCs in Barcelone, Catalunya (it is 400 km nearer Northern France than Poland). The price of the journey is much higher the infamous W$ tax...
For USB sticks : 5 years ago, the number of successive writes could be a concern; now (minimum 100 000 successive writes at the same place), I use USB sticks, which are formatted at install as ext{2,3} or btrfs; I never has issues with them, though I have to compile a lot (making/using cross compilers for avrs, msp and arms) and use the package manager, too. The only issue is iirregular lag times (at install, it may be discouraging) I do not see with rotating, classical disks (put on the same USB bus : this is cheaper, but eats mor mAmps)
100 • future of zenwalk (by marc on 2013-10-25 20:43:27 GMT from United States)
I stopped using zenwalk back in 2010 since it refused to work on any of my 40 laptops , I have been using multiple distros since 2002 so I am not a newbie.I now run all variations of puppy, mint ,fedora,mageia, tinycore and slackware
101 • OS/4 OpenLinux forum; puppies R compact (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-25 23:02:27 GMT from United States)
Hm - 19 posts in 5 years - not exactly a busy forum ...
I remember two dozen different puppies on one flash stick - been a while.
102 • @32 Slackware and Suspend (by tinkerer on 2013-10-25 23:19:22 GMT from United States)
I will second the suspend "just worked" on Zenwalk for me on old P3 laptops. This is a feat that few distros ever master "out-of-the-box". Oddly enough Vector also suspended correctly (though not as consistently). I enjoyed Zenwalk on an old Thinkpad but moved to Debian stable as "apt-get" for me is the killer app. Slackware's implementation was just not as "friendly".
103 • Point Linux @82, 87 (by Kubelik on 2013-10-26 00:34:26 GMT from Denmark)
Fossilizing and fernbap. You certainly deserve an extra Point : - )
104 • Point #87 (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-26 02:32:07 GMT from United States)
I'll concede the extra point to fernbap - I have yet to see anything verify a new(er) kernel is a better fit to current hardware before inflicting.
105 • @104 (by Kubelik on 2013-10-26 05:26:13 GMT from Denmark)
Well, Fossilizing, I really just wanted to say that I am just quite happy with Debian Testing/Jessie. It's really stable. The installation is a bit lengthy. Maybe you have to add non-free or VLC to get it all to play. - But then, that's all. - Now, don't you all come running with Ubuntu or Mint or Sunny Beach Bulgaria :-)
106 • @105 (by fernbap on 2013-10-26 06:46:39 GMT from Portugal)
My player of choice is smplayer, btw. Much better than VLC
107 • re #74 Ubuntu Gnome 13.10 (by gnomic on 2013-10-26 07:06:46 GMT from New Zealand)
Not a review as such but have given it a run as a live disc. Alas I found it unable to connect via a 3G modem - the usb_modeswitch software didn't seem to be present. It was also unable to supply a webcam picture on a Presario CQ61 laptop - presumably no driver.
Debian live DVD v7 does 3g and provides a picture via the HP-Webcam-101. However it has no wireless firmware. But does connect via wifi using the Atheros AR9285 in this laptop.
So possibly a 'must try harder' report here. Unclear why 3G is apparently not supported whereas it is usable in other Ubuntu versions iirc.
108 • Avant-Window-Navigator on Ubuntu 13.10 (by MSXManiac on 2013-10-26 10:23:19 GMT from Brazil)
New version and as usual new problems and incompatibilities.
Who made the upgrade from 13.04 to 13.10 or installed version 13.10 from scratch may have noticed that if had AWN installed, it stopped working.
And who tried to install it in 13.10, no matter if installed from scratch or from an installation updatet, failed to do so.
I go around the forums and so far only saw one quote that was not answered.
I hope posting this here call the attention of the Linux community.
Thank you!
109 • freedom means linux (by XPup on 2013-10-26 10:48:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
If I have to use lightweight distro and want to download anything later, I definitely not using Ubuntu. Peppermint? Lucid Puppy? Nah, I prefer antiX and now X-Slacko.
110 • @ 98 you are not ranting! and also @ dbrion of France (by Chanath on 2013-10-26 13:39:08 GMT from Sri Lanka)
"Speaking of which, the only reason Linux systems have been a respite from frequent malware harassment is the perceived small market size. It's just another computer system. Bad security discipline allows the same vulnerabilities. Lying about this should never be tolerated, especially in marketing hype."
You are not ranting, but telling the truth. For many computer users, Linux is "never heard that" thing. Windows make one OS for few years and make people get used to it. In some countries, the OS-less laptop is the popular one on sale. Some shops call the Dos laptops, and some install Ubuntu. I never saw a laptop with Arch, Fedora or any other Linux distro installed on sale in shops. Here the shops call the OS-less laptops as Ubuntu ones. It is much cheaper and there is an OS to work with immediately, with a bonus of a Offi ce Suite.
If someone wants a laptop with Win 8, and cheaper, say 30-40%, one buys that outside the "normal" shops. Sometimes there is some guarantee, and most times no guarantee. Well, laptops don't go bust these days.
@ dbrion of France
My friend, your country France has a company that produces Linux powered laptops. It is called, Ordissimo and you can buy them at Auchan. If you want to know more about this product of France, check here; http://www.ordissimo.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=182
111 • Thanks to dbrion of France (by Chanath on 2013-10-26 14:04:34 GMT from Sri Lanka)
As I don't know French, I'd not have looked in French websites, but thanks to dbrion, I was pushed to look in French websites, and France had made touch screen Linux laptops and even a Linux tab. Have a look; http://www.ordissimo.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=127&Itemid=217&lang=en
This tab is using Atom processor.
112 • Ordissino is well known and meant for eigty/ninety years old. (by dbrion on 2013-10-26 14:08:47 GMT from France)
and corresponding hardware is ... cheaper when W$ geared (price of administration? small size series?).
Unless there is a big temporal distortion, I might wait some decades before buying it (though it is likely to be perfect for its audience -every one else, knowing Ordissimo features, smiles ...-).
And I was aware of it as I wrote 99.
113 • @112 Dbrion (by Chanath on 2013-10-26 15:09:13 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Sorry pal, I didn't read your comment #99 about Ordissimo. I had read the earlier ones. Whether this Ordissimo is supposed to be used by the older people, it is Linux. It has an old OS, but as they are using Toshiba laptops, renamed and retouched, any other Linux can be installed too in another partition.
But, the Ordissimo tab with Linux is interesting, whether or not old people would use it. It is a French product!
114 • #98: Linux and malware (by Caitlyn Martin on 2013-10-26 19:06:05 GMT from United States)
Chanath wrote: ""Speaking of which, the only reason Linux systems have been a respite from frequent malware harassment is the perceived small market size"
I couldn't disagree more. Linux is a major target because it is a dominant force in the server room. Servers have much more powerful hardware in most cases than home machines and make the juiciest targets. It is much harder to take over and exploit a well secured Linux server than the typical home Windows machine and many if not most servers are well secured because they are maintained by professionals. That is the real reason why there is less Linux malware.
115 • @108 (by :wq on 2013-10-26 19:48:39 GMT from United States)
Issues with AWN aren't just limited to Ubuntu (ex. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=170713). AWN hasn't seen a release since 2010. Maybe a distro like Zorin OS or AriOS will fork it.
116 • Linux security vs malware (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-10-26 22:25:01 GMT from United States)
Point to Caitlyn: not the only reason.
An OS can be well-secured - by a skilled, disciplined, experienced admin. Which a newbie is not likely to be.
Inclusion of "windows" of opportunity for malware (even to support anti-malware business) isn't helping either.
117 • Price issues with Ordissimo (by dbrion on 2013-10-28 07:45:50 GMT from France)
@113 Ordissimo (hardware + support) is 200$ more expensive than the (same specs) hardware + Windows tax -the intended audience does not want to lose their photos, nor time trying to rescue them with safety issues-... Shall wait some decades...
ARM based platforms -RPi, PCduino, BBB- can be turned into laptops -if one gives them a USB keyboard, a USB hub, a screen and batteries-; they eat 5-10 W , much less than traditional laptops, icewease or midori, libreoffice can be installed on RPi from Rapbian, though they seem to be used as electronic parts -a PC is more difficult, 8 bits boards with thesame functionalities can be more expensive- . They are sold 30 -60 E$ at electronic shops....
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| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
| • Full list of all issues |
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| Random Distribution | 
ChaletOS
ChaletOS was a beginner-friendly Linux distribution based on Xubuntu and featuring the Xfce desktop. It provides a simple and intuitive desktop interface, modest hardware requirements and five years of security support. The name ChaletOS was derived from Swiss mountain houses whose concepts of simplicity, beauty and recognisability inspired the creation and design of ChaletOS.
Status: Discontinued
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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