 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 497, 4 March 2013 |
Welcome to this year's 9th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! The world of Linux has seen many ambitious projects trying to build a business model around desktop Linux by charging users for the privilege of downloading the distribution. The latest arrival among them is Rebelling Linux, a new Debian-based operating system that promises great desktop computing with personal email support. But is the US$5 download worth the cost? Read Jesse Smith's review to find out what he thinks. In the news section, Ubuntu developers and users continue to argue over the merits of a rolling-release development model, Arch Linux explains the benefits of running the original distribution over some of its more user-friendly derivatives, and Debian GNU/Linux continues to march towards "Wheezy", albeit with many unexpected bumps on the road. Also in this issue, we'll take a brief look at the Steam gaming portal for Linux and we'll discuss the issues of diversity in the world of Linux distributions. Finally, we are pleased to announce that the recipient of the February 2013 DistroWatch.com donation is the Linux From Scratch project. Happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (25MB) and MP3 (47MB) formats
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
First look at Rebellin Linux 1.00 "Adrenaline"
 In recent weeks I've received several requests to review a new commercial distribution called Rebellin Linux. This project, founded by Utkarsh Sevekar, uses Debian GNU/Linux as a base and is available in two editions called "Synergy" and "Adrenaline". Synergy is put together using packages from Debian's "Stable" software repository and Adrenaline is mostly composed of packages from Debian's "Unstable" software repository. While Synergy is offered in two builds, 32-bit and 64-bit, the Adrenaline edition is available as a 32-bit build only at the time of writing.
Normally I don't review commercial distributions, at least young ones which don't offer a trial period. However, in this case Mr Sevekar contacted me and offered a free copy of Rebellin Linux for the purposes of this review. I appreciate the opportunity as I hope this review will help our readers make an informed decision about whether to lay down their money for this new distro. During this review I will be looking at the Adrenaline edition of Rebellin. The Debian project is getting close to releasing a new stable version of their distribution and I feel the Synergy edition of Rebellin, which is based on the existing Stable branch of Debian, will probably be obsolete in a few months. The ISO image for Rebellin's Adrenaline edition is approximately 1.6 GB in size. While the ISO was downloading I looked around the project's website to see what sets this distribution apart from its Debian parent and there appear to be two things. The first is the commercial aspect. It costs $5 (I believe the price is in US dollars) to download Rebellin and, in exchange for the fee, the developer provides e-mail support for his product. The second feature is Rebellin comes with support for non-free software (such as multimedia codecs and Flash) out of the box. Debian, being a project focused on software freedom, is careful not to ship certain pieces of software on their install media and Rebellin adds some of these non-free pieces to their download image.
Rebellin Linux 1.00 "Andrenaline" - productivity software
(full image size: 81kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
Booting from the Rebellin Linux media brings up a boot menu which allows us to either try the distribution's live desktop environment or launch the system's installer. The installer can be run in a few different modes, specifically "default", "expert" and "auto". Booting to the live environment also has a few options, allowing us to run either with or without PAE support. I decided to try the live environment first. Rebellin boots into a GNOME 3 desktop and, depending on the capabilities of our video card, we are either treated to the GNOME Shell or GNOME's fallback mode. Poking around the GNOME interface I found it seemed functional enough, though there didn't appear to be any way of launching the system installer from within the live environment and I decided to reboot. Easier said than done as I didn't see any shutdown/reboot option available and logging out of the desktop automatically logs us back in. I finally turned to the command line and issued a "sudo halt" to bring down the operating system. Booting from the Rebellin media again I opted to take the default install option.
The system installer walks us through a series of text screens, most of which display lists of choices from which we can select our answers. We start off by confirming our preferred language and then our location. The next screen asks us to confirm our keyboard map and then we are asked to create a hostname and domain name for our machine. The following screen gets us to set a password for the root account. After that we are asked to supply a user name for a non-root account and set a password for that account as well. We then supply our time zone. Next we get into partitioning and I found the menus which walk us through setting up partitions are not particularly intuitive, but in the end I was able to set up the partitions I wanted. The Debian installer allows us to create LVM volumes and it supports encryption. We're able to work with ext2, ext3, ext4, JFS and XFS file systems.
The new Btrfs file system does not appear to be supported. Once the disk has been divided up and we have assigned mount points to our partitions the installer copies its data to our hard drive. After the necessary files have been copied the installer asks us from which country we want to download packages. After we select a country from the list we are asked to pick a specific repository mirror within that country which will, hopefully, supply us with up to date packages. The installer then downloads package information from the selected repository and we are asked if we would like to install the GRUB boot loader. With this final step completed the system reboots itself. The default installer does have a lot of steps, but I found they were fairly straight forward and, when in doubt, the installer's prompts usually provide enough data for us to make an informed choice.
I tried running Rebellin Linux on my desktop computer (dual-core 2.8 GHz CPU, 6 GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card) and in a virtual machine powered by VirtualBox. I was not able to get Rebellin to successfully boot on the physical machine. Quite often a distribution will require specific parameters to be passed to the Linux kernel in order to boot on this hardware, but in the case of Rebellin none of them worked. As a result my experience with Rebellin was almost entirely limited to running it in a virtual machine. While running in the virtual environment I found Rebellin performed quickly, boot times were short and the desktop was responsive. Due to the limitation of running within VirtualBox the desktop interface provided by GNOME was limited to GNOME's fallback mode, the full GNOME Shell interface was not available. While using GNOME's fallback mode I found logging into the desktop would use approximately 150 MB of memory, a fairly small footprint by modern standards. I suspect, based on my previous experience with Debian Stable, that Rebellin's Synergy edition will use even less memory. Unfortunately, I found Rebellin wouldn't make use of my full screen resolution and so my Rebellin desktop was quite small.
There was one interesting side effect which showed up when trying to boot Rebellin Linux on my physical computer. Between attempts to boot Rebellin I had logged into another distribution, visited some websites and opened documents. After closing all my applications, rebooting the machine and attempting to load Rebellin I found the machine would freeze. Just before the boot process would freeze the screen would show images of documents I had been working on in the other operating system. Obviously, even though the documents I was working on had been closed when I logged out, their images remained in memory. I don't believe I have ever seen this happen before and it was a good reminder that even encrypted documents aren't always safe from prying eyes when someone has physical access to one's computer.
Rebellin Linux boots to a graphical login screen and logging in brought me back to the GNOME fallback desktop, which closely resembles the classic GNOME 2 environment. At the top of the screen there is an application menu and, at the bottom of the display, we find the desktop's task switcher. Shortly after logging in a password prompt appeared and requested the system's root password in order to check for updates. No application window or list of updates was displayed, just the password prompt. If we give the system our password we can see network activity in progress, but no software updates are downloaded and applied to the system. At this time I decided to dig into the application menu and manually launch the operating system's software update tool. This is a simple graphical application which will display a list of available package updates and let us select which ones we want to apply.
Now, Rebellin's Adrenaline edition is based on Debian's Unstable branch, which gets regular updates so it surprised me to learn only two updates were waiting for me immediately after installing the operating system and both of these updates were related to time zone information, not applications. I closed the update app and switched over to one of Rebellin's graphical package managers, the venerable Synaptic application. Attempting to bring up repository information in Synaptic would not display the expected settings window, instead Synaptic would simply report repository information had been changed, no further details were forthcoming. Turning to the command line I opened the APT package manager's configuration files and found Rebellin, by default, connects to the Debian Stable repositories. This means the software we have at install time is mostly drawn from Debian Unstable which features relatively new versions of packages, but the package manager pulls from Stable where we find older package versions. As a side effect, most packages will not receive updates as the version numbers in Stable won't catch up to Unstable.
I e-mailed the developer about this strange configuration and he pointed me to a documentation page on the Rebellin website which contains a series of "first run" instructions, most of which explain how the user can configure GNOME Shell. At the bottom of this page are instructions for switching the repositories from which Rebellin Adrenaline pulls packages. The developer added that future versions of Rebellin will not require the user to manually configure the system's package repositories. With the proper repositories entered into my APT configuration file I once more returned to Synaptic, refreshed my local package database and found there were about 800 package updates (totaling 700MB in size) waiting to be downloaded. Attempting to download these waiting security updates produced an error saying the package database was locked. A quick check showed no other programs were using the package database. I manually removed the package manager's lock file and gave Synaptic another try. This time Synaptic downloaded all of the available updates and installed them. I was happy to find that all updates applied without further problems.
One additional note on package management - the Rebellin documentation recommends locking a package named "desktop-base" to prevent it from being updated. Synaptic respects this lock, but the dedicated update manager does not. This means it is very easy to accidentally update the package even after it has been locked. I did this toward the end of my week with Rebellin and found the only noticeable consequence was that my desktop's wallpaper changed, reverting back to displaying the Debian logo rather than Rebellin's logo.
Rebellin Linux 1.00 "Andrenaline" - browsing packages and changing settings
(full image size: 140kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
The distribution comes with applications for a wide range of tasks. In the application menu we find the Firefox web browser, the Epiphany browser, the Empathy messaging client and the Skype voice over IP client. The Deluge bittorrent client is installed for us as is the Orca screen reader. In the Office section of the menu we find the Evolution e-mail client, the LibreOffice suite and lighter productivity applications such as Gnumeric and AbiWord. Rebellin comes with the GNU Image Manipulation Program, a document viewer, the Inkscape vector image editor, the Shotwell photo manager and Blender for creating 3-D models and animations. The Audacity audio editor is included, along with the Cheese webcam utility, the Exaile media player and the OpenShot video editor. A few other multimedia apps are included, such as Rhythmbox, VLC and the Totem video player. A disc burner and audio CD ripper are installed and there are several small games included in the default installation. Rebellin comes with the GNOME settings panel, a text editor, calculator and archive manager. The Network Manager software is installed to help us get on-line and the distribution includes popular multimedia codecs out of the box. Flash is available in the default installation as is Java. In the background we find the Linux kernel, version 3.2.
Basically what I have found, following nearly a week of using Rebellin's Adrenaline edition, is that the project is very similar to its Debian base. In fact, with all software updates applied the distro's branding even reverts back to the Debian artwork. Rebellin does not feature any special packages and the project does not maintain its own repositories, nor does it appear to include any additional software not found in Debian's repositories. Basically this distribution gives us a Debian system with a slightly different selection of default applications. The operating system is fast, stable and the amount of available software in the repositories is huge, as one would expect from Debian. Essentially I believe there are two ways of looking at Rebellin. The first is that Rebellin is Debian with added multimedia support out of the box and e-mail support. The other way to look at this distribution is Rebellin is Debian you have to pay for with more initial configuration steps and a few extra bugs. Personally I suspect anyone who is able to navigate through Debian's installer and manually edit their repository configuration files will probably be able to get by with community support provided via Debian's forums and won't need the dedicated e-mail support.
* * * * *
 I'd like to shift gears for a moment and talk about another commercial product which has been introduced recently to the Linux community. The stable release of Steam, the gaming portal, launched a few weeks ago. This game distribution software has the potential to bring a lot of new and entertaining games (especially big commercial games) to Linux desktop users. Gaming is often seen a weak spot in the GNU/Linux armour and I think Steam being ported to Linux may finally put that issue to rest as dozens of new titles are already available to Linux users. I've been running Steam for a month or so now and I've found it to be a pretty good experience thus far. There were a few minor annoyances while Steam was still in beta, but those problems have been ironed out and there have been no serious bugs in my experience. I was pleasantly surprised to find that Valve, the company behind Steam, is not only supporting Linux, but they are also activity encouraging people to give Linux (specifically Ubuntu) a try. Apart from Ubuntu and related derivative projects, some other Linux distributions have introduced support for the Steam platform. These adventurous distributions include Fuduntu and Korora.
Valve's Steam store
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Open source purists may not appreciate the arrival of Valve's closed source technology; however, I suspect people who have been dual booting in order to play games will enjoy the convenience of playing games on their favourite operating system. I certainly like the prospect of having additional options and an abundance of inexpensive entertainment.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Seven exciting "Raring" features, Ubuntu's rolling-release arguments, Arch Linux versus Arch-based spin-offs, Debian "Wheezy" status
 Despite the lack of official alpha releases, the Ubuntu development team is hard at work in order to bring us the latest and greatest; Ubuntu 13.04 final is just seven weeks away now. Jun Auza summarises the seven impressive features expected in "Raring Ringtail": "Ubuntu 13.04 (code-named 'Raring Ringtail'), although not a long-term support (LTS) release, will bring along some major changes to the Ubuntu operating system. With the proposed improvements in Dash, one of Shuttleworth's major goals, that is bringing the web and the desktop together, will get a shot in the arm. Undoubtedly, Ubuntu 13.04 marks a crucial release for Canonical. Their new project on the other hand, which is bringing Ubuntu to smartphones, is in heavy development. But the busy developers at Canonical are making sure that their core product gets all the attention it deserves. Ubuntu 13.04, apart from bringing new features to the user, will also come with a more polished and refined look that will hopefully put it head-to-head with Microsoft's convoluted Windows 8 desktop. Here are some of the best features that are either expected to land or have already landed in Ubuntu 13.04."
The issue of Ubuntu possibly switching to a rolling-release development model (where the installed operating system will get continuous daily software updates instead of the current model where the distribution is only updated once every six months) has once again stirred emotions and prompted heated exchanges in the blogosphere. First, it was Canonical's Vice President for Ubuntu Engineering Rick Spencer who tabled an official proposal: "I think we should keep LTS releases, but starting now, stop doing interim releases and start a rolling release. ... A rolling release instead of interim releases will benefit users, community members, and developers." Then it was Ubuntu Member and Ask Ubuntu Moderator Oli Warner who put together convincing arguments against the change: "Developers don't know what they're building for. Users barely know what they're running on. Triagers need to work five times as hard to track down which version of which software a bug is coming from. What happens to bugs after the new release comes out? How on earth do you plan a multi-month project (e.g. migrating Upstart to Systemd) when you have no way to freeze and force everything else to fit around you?" Which side of the argument are you on? Please discuss below.
* * * * *
 Speaking about the rolling-release model, the ever popular Arch Linux is a proof that the concept is feasible, even though most distributions clearly prefer the traditional release cycle method. But the continued insistence of Arch developers to adhere to the distribution's original KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principles, has resulted in a growing number of more "user-friendly" Arch forks, as well as some tension between the parent project and some of its derivatives. Jason Wryan has written an excellent post explaining Arch's raison d'être for those hesitating between the real Arch and one of the "easier" spin-offs: "If you think that you can just skip the whole tiresome RTFM thing by downloading a derivative and installing that, how exactly do you expect to be able to run a rolling-release distro that has, on average, a couple of significant changes every year? Sooner or later you are going to have to come to terms with the responsibility that is an integral part of this type of rolling release and, if you have installed it yourself, you will be much better placed to be able to build on that understanding and broaden and deepen your knowledge of your system."
* * * * *
 One of the major highlights of 2013, at least in the world of Linux distributions, will undoubtedly be the stable release of Debian GNU/Linux 7.0, code name "Wheezy". So where do we stand in terms of getting the release ready? Niels Thykier gives us an update: "According to UDD, we are down to 204 release-critical (RC) bugs (down from 249, since my last post). It is not quite the 2.4 RC bugs per day - actually it is about 1.1 RC bug a day. Unfortunately, we do not appear to be fixing bugs faster than we are reporting them at the moment. If you look at Richard Hartmann's post from last week, then we had 206 RC bugs left. Even worse, we appear to have regressed between week 7 and 8 of this year (194 to 206). If you want the Wheezy release to happen soon, please consider helping us by providing bug fixes that comply with the Wheezy freeze policy. If the pace of RC bug fixes do not pick up, the alternative is that the release team 'deals' with the bugs. Note that 'deals' generally falls into one of 2 categories. Either we defer/ignore the problem for Wheezy or we remove affected packages from testing. Particularly, if we have to remove packages, they may take reverse dependencies with them as collateral damage."
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Questions about justification and diversity of Linux distributions
Who-needs-a-reason asks: I think your review of SparkyLinux was a bit harsh, especially the part about justification. Since when does a Linux distribution have to justify its existence?
DistroWatch answers: Linux distributions do not need to justify their existence. I believe one of the benefits of working with free and open source software is that anyone can take the pieces and rework them into a new form and share their vision with the rest of the world. It was certainly not my intent to suggest the developers behind SparkyLinux need to justify their creation. What I wrote in my review of the distribution was "I quite like distro diversity and I'm not one to complain about being spoiled for choice. Yet the fact remains, I couldn't figure out exactly what SparkyLinux is trying to accomplish." By which I didn't mean to imply the developers had to justify their distribution. What I was trying to get across was that I didn't know why the distribution had been created and I wasn't sure how it was meant to be used.
Most of the major distributions have some sort of mission statement or description of what the project aims to do well. The Linux Mint project has an excellent About page, Ubuntu dedicates an entire section of their website to detailing reasons for using their operating system, the openSUSE team has a good explanation for why we might use their software. This makes the above projects fairly easy to evaluate as we have something against which to measure them. The SparkyLinux website very briefly states what the project is, but not what its aims are. This makes the project difficult to evaluate as it is hard to measure success without goals.
* * * * *
Looking-for-something-new asks: You mentioned you like diversity in existing distributions, but is there a distro you want to see made that doesn't exist, yet?
DistroWatch answers: I'm not sure if there is a new distribution I would like to see created, but there are existing features out there which exist in some projects which I would like to see ported to other projects. For example, I really like Mageia's control panel and would love to see it (or at least its interface) adopted by other distributions. Both the openSUSE and the PC-BSD projects have excellent support for advanced file systems (Btrfs and ZFS respectively) and those tools would be very welcome in other projects. I would like to see Ubuntu's Software Centre and One client-side software ported to other distributions. I think it would be great if more effort was put into supporting cross-distribution packages so that a developer could build one self-contained binary package and have it work across distributions and even integrate into the package management system. Right now there are several cross-platform package formats, but they are rarely used and not all that well supported by the various distributions.
Right now I feel as though selecting one distribution to install means gaining some great features while giving up on others. Enjoying the wide-spread support of Ubuntu and its features means not having openSUSE's great YaST configuration system, running openSUSE means accepting a shorter support cycle, moving to CentOS with its long term support means having old desktop applications. Choosing a Linux distribution is like playing rock-paper-scissors, each project has advantages and missing features. My ideal would be cross pollination, bringing the best features of the existing projects to all the other projects.
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| Released Last Week |
Tails 0.17
A new version of Tails, a Debian-based live DVD focusing on user's privacy and anonymity while browsing the world wide web, has been released: "Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 0.17, is out. All users must upgrade as soon as possible. Notable user-visible changes include: Install the KeePassX password manager with a configuration and documentation that makes it easy to persist the password database; upgrade to Iceweasel 17.0.3esr; do not allow listing all available fonts; improve default spellchecker dictionary selection; disable the add-ons automatic update feature; remove NoScript click-to-play confirmation; synchronise some preferences set by Torbutton to be ready when it stops setting these; disable navigation timing; disable SPDY...." A more detailed changelog, including the list of bug fixes and minor improvements can be found in the release announcement.
Manjaro Linux 0.8.4
Philip Müller has announced the release of Manjaro Linux 0.8.4, a Arch-based Linux distribution with a choice of Xfce, Cinnamon and Openbox desktop user interfaces: "More features, more refinements, and more user-friendliness characterises the release of Manjaro 0.8.4. While the most immediately noticeable difference will likely be the introduction of a new look developed especially for the Manjaro desktop environments, the most significant development will be found in the official introduction of Pamac, a user-friendly Pacman interface developed in-house by the Manjaro team. Replacing the Kalu, Pacman-GUI, and Package Browser applications, Pamac makes it faster and easier than ever before to update the system, search for, and install software." Read the full release announcement for information about new features and screenshots.
Manjaro Linux 0.8.4 - now with a new graphical package management tool
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Clonezilla Live 2.1.0-26
Steven Shiau has announced the release of Clonezilla Live 2.1.0-26, a new stable build of the project's live CD with specialist open-source tools for disk cloning tasks: "Stable Clonezilla Live (2.1.0-26) released. This release includes major enhancements and bug fixes: the underlying GNU/Linux operating system was upgraded, this release is based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2013-02-26; Linux kernel was updated to 3.2.39; multipath devices are now supported natively; the blkdev.list info file was added in the image directory; Xen disk was added as a supported device; the Partclone package was updated to 0.2.58, an issue with imaging JFS partitions larger than 50 GB was fixed; added '-m 1024' option to Partclone, this should increase the imaging efficiency; the udisks package was added the packages list...." Read the rest of the release announcement for a complete changelog.
Zorin OS 6.2 "Core", "Ultimate"
Artyom Zorin has announced the release of Zorin OS 6.2 "Core" and "Ultimate" editions. Although both are based on Ubuntu 12.04, only the "Core" variant can be had for free while the "Ultimate" edition, with extra tools and enhancements, is a commercial product that cost €10 to download. From the release announcement: "The Zorin OS team is pleased to announce the release of Zorin OS 6.2 Core and Ultimate, our operating system designed for Windows users. Zorin OS 6.2 builds on top of our popular previous release of Zorin OS 6.1 with newly updated software, a newer kernel and Zorin Menu. Zorin Menu is our continuation of the GnoMenu start menu software which has been included in every version of Zorin OS before. The first release of Zorin Menu, included in Zorin OS 6.2 for the first time, provides lots of bug fixes to ameliorate the overall stability of Zorin OS. As Zorin OS 6.2 is based on Ubuntu 12.04 it is an LTS (long-term support) release, provided with software updates until April 2017."
Grml 2013.02
Michael Prokop has announced the release of Grml 2013.02, a Debian-based live CD with a collection of specialist GNU/Linux software, tools and scripts designed for system administrators: "We just released Grml 2013.02 'Grumpy Grinch'. This release brings the Grml tools towards the upcoming Debian stable release ('Wheezy'), provides up-to-date hardware support and fixes known bugs from the previous Grml release. New features: ssh boot option - display SSH server key fingerprints; grml-hwinfo - added support for lsscsi, iscsiadm, Proxmox, libvirt, OpenVZ, VServer information retrieval, swapon, mdadm, LVM + dmsetup, now using 'lspci -nn' for lspci output; grml-live - handling firmware related packages in GRMLBASE, added uuid-runtime to GRMLBASE; grml-network - netcardconfig provides support to scan for available wireless networks...." Read the release notes for a list of new features and important changes.
aLinux 15.0
Jay Klepacs has announced the release of aLinux 15.0, an independently developed distribution (formerly known ad Peanut Linux) designed for ageing computers and featuring the KDE 3.5.10 desktop: "aLinux 15.0 released, updates the graphical installer, dialogues, etc., easier to install. Same old system but with just enough updates to be 'usable'. KDE 3.5.10, X.Org 7.7, glibc 2.17, GCC 4.7.2, Linux kernel 2.6.34.14, Perl 5.16.2, Skype 4.1.0.20 (MSN and Windows Live support). Main web browser is Firefox 17.0.1. Distro is optimized for i686 now. Kopete has been removed and replaced with Pidgin messenger. It's still a distro aimed at computers from the past (mine included), so if you're looking for the latest bleeding edge, you won't find it here, but if you're looking for something a bit more complete from a past 'yesterday' operating system that still manages to work in 2013, this may suit you." Here is the brief release announcement.
OS4 13.3
Roberto Dohnert has announced the release of OS4 13.3, an updated version of the project's Xubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution: "Today we are pleased to announce the update of OS4 OpenDesktop. OpenDesktop is the leading provider of cutting-edge Linux desktop technology to the masses. With this release we encompass stability and functionality. Some of the changes we have made in OS4 OpenDesktop 13.3 is that we have cleaned it up quite a bit, so legacy kernels and older versions of software have been removed. Some of the improvements in OS4 OpenDesktop 13.3 are: over 300 application and system updates; Google Chrome 25; Linux kernel 3.2; Cheese webcam booth for webcam users; Google Voice web application which provides SMS and telephony services to OS4; disk utility to manage partitions and prepare partitions for installation...." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details and a screenshot.
Linux Caixa Mágica 19
Linux Caixa Mágica 19 has been released. Linux Caixa Mágica is a Portuguese Linux distribution based on Ubuntu and featuring the latest GNOME 3 desktop with GNOME Shell. The most important features of this release are software updates to GNOME 3.6, LibreOffice 3.6.2, Linux kernel 3.5, Mozilla Firefox 19.0 and Google Chrome 24.0.1312.56, as well as a new version of the Portuguese citizen card software program with support for digital signatures of PDF files. Another interesting new feature is the introduction of Caixa Mágica TopApps, a one-click, web-based software installation tool. This version offers a possibility to upgrade directly from Caixa Mágica 18, while Wubi, a utility designed to install the distribution from Windows, is also available. Read the brief release announcement (in Portuguese) for more details, a screenshot and relevant links.
Caixa Mágica 19 - a Portuguese Linux distribution GNOME Shell, based on Ubuntu
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Parted Magic 2013_02_28
Patrick Verner has announced the release of Parted Magic 2013_02_28, a new version of the project's Linux-based live CD with open-source tools and utilities designed for disk management and data rescue tasks: "The Parted Magic project is proud to announce another stable release of the popular partitioning and system rescue environment. Since the last release many new improvements and updates have taking place. Parted Magic now supports booting from EFI BIOS. The kernel has been upgraded to Linux 3.7.9 with fixes for the bug bricking Samsung laptops using EFI and the samsung-laptop module. It's safe to use EFI and Parted Magic in this release. The chntpw utility has been added to the boot menu once again. A new kernel command line option 'wicd' allows easy switch between NetworkManager and wicd." Visit the project's news page to read the remainder of the release announcement.
Quirky 5.4.91
Barry Kauler, the founder of Puppy Linux, has released a new stable build of Quirky, a minimalist distribution that attempts to explore new avenues and implement unusual ideas. This release of Quirky doesn't come as live CD image, but rather as a single kernel file that needs to be downloaded and then booted via an existing bootloader (instructions included). From the release notes: "It has been a very long time since the last official release of Quirky. Yes, despite the rather odd version number, this is a new public official release of Quirky. These are two ideas/features to play with in Quirky 5.4.91: absolutely everything built into a single (126 MB) file; f2fs (Flash Friendly File System). The idea was developed by the Linux kernel developers, in which an 'initial file system' can be built into the kernel. Various people, including myself, toyed with building all of Puppy into the kernel."
Linux From Scratch 7.3
Bruce Dubbs has announced the release of Linux From Scratch (LFS) 7.3, a book of instructions on how to build a base Linux system from scratch from an existing Linux system or a live CD: "The Linux From Scratch community is pleased to announce the release of LFS Version 7.3. It is a major release with toolchain updates to Binutils 2.23.1, glibc 2.17 and GCC 4.7.2. In total, 31 packages were updated from LFS 7.2 and changes to bootscripts and text have been made throughout the book." Other major updates in this release include Linux kernel 3.8.1, Coreutils 8.21, kmod 12, Perl 5.16.2, TCL 8.6.0, Texinfo 5.0 and udev 197 (extracted from systemd 197). Visit the project's news page to read the release announcement and check out the changelog for a full list of changes, fixes and package updates.
Puppy Linux 5.5 "Wary", "Racy"
Barry Kauler has announced the release of Puppy Linux 5.5 "Wary" and "Racy" editions, special Puppy builds targeting (not only) older computer systems: "Wary, our edition of Puppy for older computers, has now reach version 5.5 (along with Racy, that we think of as 'Wary on steroids', intended for not-so-old hardware). Most of the system libraries and some major applications have not been upgraded since 5.3, but a lot of smaller applications and utilities have, notably those created 'in house' by our very enthusiastic developers. What really has progressed significantly since 5.3 is the Woof infrastructure, bringing a plethora of bug fixes and enhancements. These improvements have made it imperative to release a new Wary (and Racy). Note that Wary 5.5 has the same old 2.6.32.59 kernel (configured for uniprocessor i486 CPU)." See the release announcement for more information.
PureOS 7.0
Marc Poirette has announced the release of PureOS 7.0, a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution with a choice of GNOME or Openbox desktop user interfaces: "PureOS 7.0 is a GNU/Linux live distribution based on Debian's 'testing' branch, multilingual, installable and built with the new Linux Live Kit scripts. It is available in two editions (GNOME and Openbox) as ZIP images for live USB only. Features common to both editions: Linux kernel 3.6.11; Chromium, GParted, Synaptic; scripts for modules management (dir2pb, pb2dir, pure activate and deactivate, deb2pb and debs2pb); smxi and sgfxi scripts. The Openbox edition weighs only 356 MB; it was designed to serve as a basis for the design of the live USB image customized by adding modules. The GNOME edition is more complete (supports scanners and printers) and it weighs 642 MB." Here is the brief release announcement.
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
February 2013 DistroWatch.com donation: Linux From Scratch
We are happy to announce that the recipient of the February 2013 DistroWatch.com donation is Linux From Scratch, a community project providing a comprehensive book of step-by-step instructions on how to build a base Linux system from source code. It receives US$350.00 in cash.
Linux From Scratch was created by Gerard Beekmans back in 1999. The book's 1.0 version, released on 16 December 1999 and still available from the project's museum section, included instructions on how to build a Linux system using the then brand-new Linux kernel 2.0.38 and the glibc 2.0.7pre6 toolchain, all compiled with one of the available versions of the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) - the stable 2.7.2.3 or the experimental 2.95.3. The book only lasted four days and was replaced with a bug-fixed version 1.1. New releases followed fast and minor updates were sometimes made available on a weekly basis. Nowadays the project is much more mature and sedate, with new versions arriving at roughly six-month intervals. For more information about Linux From Scratch please visit its website and wiki pages.
Launched in 2004, this monthly donations programme is a DistroWatch initiative to support free and open-source software projects and operating systems with cash contributions. Readers are welcome to nominate their favourite project for future donations. Those readers who wish to contribute towards these donations, please use our advertising page to make a payment (PayPal and credit cards are accepted). Here is the list of the projects that have received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NDISwrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and Sabayon Linux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350), Frugalware Linux ($340), cURL ($300), GSPCA ($400), FileZilla ($400), MythDora ($500), Linux Mint ($400), Parsix GNU/Linux ($300), Miro ($300), GoblinX ($250), Dillo ($150), LXDE ($250)
- 2009: Openbox ($250), Wolvix GNU/Linux ($200), smxi ($200), Python ($300), SliTaz GNU/Linux ($200), LiVES ($300), Osmo ($300), LMMS ($250), KompoZer ($360), OpenSSH ($350), Parted Magic ($350) and Krita ($285)
- 2010: Qimo 4 Kids ($250), Squid ($250), Libre Graphics Meeting ($300), Bacula ($250), FileZilla ($300), GCompris ($352), Xiph.org ($250), Clonezilla ($250), Debian Multimedia ($280), Geany ($300), Mageia ($470), gtkpod ($300)
- 2011: CGSecurity ($300), OpenShot ($300), Imagination ($250), Calibre ($300), RIPLinuX ($300), Midori ($310), vsftpd ($300), OpenShot ($350), Trinity Desktop Environment ($300), LibreCAD ($300), LiVES ($300), Transmission ($250)
- 2012: GnuPG ($350), ImageMagick ($350), GNU ddrescue ($350), Slackware Linux ($500), MATE ($250), LibreCAD ($250), BleachBit ($350), cherrytree ($260), Zim ($335), nginx ($250), LFTP ($250), Remastersys ($300)
- 2013: MariaDB ($300), Linux From Scratch ($350)
Since the launch of the Donations Program in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$34,635 to various open-source software projects.
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- Shell-Linux. Shell-Linux is a small Linux distribution built from Micro Core Linux 2.5 with many user-friendly features. It is released under the General Public License version 2 (GPL2).
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 11 March 2013. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • PureOS 7 (by Hylas on 2013-03-04 09:52:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a crunchbang user i was keen to try this distro (openbox) version.
Sadly, despite following the instructions contained in the zip file for making the usb stick bootable, i was just shown a couple of error messages (this is from within my win7 boot, as administrator).
Hence didn't get a chance to test :-(
2 • Cross distro support (by kc1di on 2013-03-04 10:44:58 GMT from United States)
I would just like to say +1 to the comment about cross-platform compatibility. It sure would be nice to have packaging systems that would allow for the use of the same package on all distro or at least many.
The downside may be that tracking down bugs would become more difficult.
3 • Too much variety and too much flexibility. (by os2user on 2013-03-04 11:30:18 GMT from United States)
Frankly, new Linux distros make me shiver, then ignore them as likely wastes of time.
I'll just touch on the "variety" aspects: obviously even experts can't manage to cope with the features, bugs, and quirks of new distributions. But since not intending to use for everyday let alone rely on, you just gloss right over and go on to the next. Doesn't strike me as practical...
Flexibility is an even larger and more entrenched problem. Yesterday I, yet again, was just clicking around innocently to move some video files for burning to DVD, when SOME of sort (a new way I think) started multiple copies of each playing. Brought a tolerably fast 2800+ to standstill, then as I frantically tried to close windows, a black screen and nothing, so I just powered off.
Now, my point is that NO ONE EVER WANTS TO OPEN MULTIPLE VIDEO PLAYERS! -- NEVER. -- And yet flexibility to do so is considered sacred. And it has to be a top level option on menus to ensure that it can be done by accident. It's just lousy design. If there's a "single instance" setting anywhere, we're back to the variety and arcane problem: I don't know where it is on the one I've been using for a while, and trying a new distro, should I really have to ferret such things out rather than expect reasonable people to set the defaults right?
That's just one (recurrent) example. Linux distros are too much like an adventure game where you re-boot when find a trap.
Linux is no longer fun for me.
4 • @3 but what if... (by greg on 2013-03-04 11:49:50 GMT from Slovenia)
but what if you wanted to watch 4 movies at the same time or two in paralel to analyse them. see the differences and such.
or what if you give computer to a 2 year old and he decided to launch 28 video players at the same time on 256MB RAM system. i am sure he had his reasons... :-P
5 • openSUSE (by Mac on 2013-03-04 12:09:23 GMT from United States)
I think openSUSE is coming along very well have 12.3 rc2 installed and everything is going gust fine for the way I like things. Looking forward forward for final. Will give me a chance to learn something about rpm, been using mepis or kubuntu for years. I have read here about suse and mbr problems and this one worked for me and I am excited to see the final.
Have fun Mack
6 • Rebellin Review (by DavidEF on 2013-03-04 12:24:15 GMT from United States)
Thanks, Jesse, for the review. It helps a lot of us to decide to not spend $5US on a free operating system. It seems odd to me that the developer would want so badly for you to review it, knowing it is just Debian with a few tweaks and not even its own repository.
7 • ubuntu rolling release arguments (by kernelpanic! on 2013-03-04 12:27:46 GMT from Germany)
distro-hopping for the 4 years I`m in linux I just got sick of installing a new version every half year or so. linux beginners just don`t recognize that they are stuck with the software they installed with the initial setup. dist-upgrades of course are theoretically possible if one knows how to do it (setting up / changing repositories, locking critical software and stuff like that), however that`s not what the windows-refugee would be able to do, and in most cases the system will break anyway.
now I settled just on distros that feature the rolling release concept, in my opinion the only way to go for in the future.
my 2 main distros (both on desktop PCs and notebook) are antiX (debian testing based) and PCLinuxOS. didn't try arch, because the approach of this distro to make the install process tricky and complicated as long as there are nice and easy installers available (as in the 2 distros mentioned above) is not appealing to me.
rolling up (dist-upgrading) with those 2 distros I never encountered any problems, so for me that`s the way to go.
maybe canonical should offer both (steady/rolling) releases, the rolling type for the more experimental oriented and a stable "snapshot" for the more safety oriented user.
8 • Re: 7 rolling releases (by hobbitland on 2013-03-04 12:48:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've stayed with Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS but with Gnome 3 fallback and will move to XFCE for Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. I don't like rolling release as I heavilly remaster Ubuntu 12.04.2 with unity removed and gnome 3 fallback included plus lots of other tweaks.
I've done this for a few years. Remastering allows me to install on multiple machines and save time. I think Ubuntu still has the best installer but shame on the default desktop and Amazon spyware. Distro hoppers should learn to do remastering of a major distro. That is a very good way to learn Linux. Also allow removing the stuff you dislike and adding stuff you like.
For me a distro MUST allow installation from LiveCD without network access (Debian live 6/7 don't work). Not all systems have network access or allowed to access internet. I only used LTS releases and need 5 years support (again Debian onyl 3 years).
I use CentOS 6.3 and Ubuntu 12.04.2 only!
9 • aLinux iso (by PCBSDuser on 2013-03-04 12:57:58 GMT from Canada)
I was interested in trying aLinux 15.0 (the distro formerly known as Peanut), but all the iso links are deadends.
From the posts on the aLinux news pages, I'm guessing that Jay Klepacs has withdrawn the iso because of DVD boot problems, but is going to rebuild it. Does anyone have further information?
10 • Rolling and playing (by Jesse on 2013-03-04 13:04:11 GMT from Canada)
>> "Now, my point is that NO ONE EVER WANTS TO OPEN MULTIPLE VIDEO PLAYERS! -- NEVER"
That isn't at all true. Many people, myself included, open multiple video players at once. Sometimes to compare video, sometimes to aid in editing, sometimes to compare the performance or picture quality in two different players. Having two different players queued to run different videos can be helpful during presentations too. You may not like the feature, but others find it useful.
Regarding Arch and the comments by Jason, I think he may miss the point why a lot of people like Arch derivatives. Projects based on Arch are great because they are easy and fast to set up. No manual reading or command line tweaking is required. At some point a user may have to look up something, but it's fairly rare in an Arch derivative and usually only required when something goes wrong. With plain Arch it's a given users will have to read the manual before they start.
11 • 1 • PureOS 7 (by joji on 2013-03-04 13:14:51 GMT from Belgium)
Was able to do a frugal install of PureOS 7 Openbox on a USB-stick.
Feel crunchbang is better. But PureOS allows you to add modules the Slax way.
My biggest problem was network. At first sight no tools to install / set network. So my testing didn't go very far ...
12 • Replys & Thoughts (by Jay on 2013-03-04 13:56:28 GMT from Canada)
@1 did you try unetbootin they have a windows .exe
@3 As stated by Jesse there are reasons for using multiple video player windows but did you know that you can configure some players so it will only open one player window at a time and add newly selected items to a playlist or auto play the new file? I know not all players have that feature. If yours doesn't you could switch players.
Still @3:
Now I have an honest question for you, do you use a custom theme installed from *-look.org? some of those themes have little quirks. Delorean Dark 1.55 for example, when I started using that on Xubuntu 12.04 I found that my right-click menu in thunar wouldn't stay open unless I held the mouse button down, I had to edit the ~/.gtkrc-2.0 file and change 1 character on 1 line to make the right-click menu work properly. it took a google search, 5 min of reading and about 20 sec of work.
@8 I've tried a few times to find a way to remaster a system but have yet to find a way that works for me, I've since given up on that for a while
As far as Ubuntu goes Unity on the desktop = useless to me, can't configure it the ways I want to, it's way to resource intensive and the Amazon thing kinda rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm really excited to see where Ubuntu phone and tablet go in the future.
regards
Jay
13 • Ubuntu Rolling Release (by The Linux Cat on 2013-03-04 14:12:25 GMT from United States)
I probably would prefer a hybrid model where the system is fixed for each release but new applications versions are updated to the current release. I think what most people are concerned with is they need to update or install a ppa to keep applications updated and would like not to reinstall the distro every 6 - 12 months.
14 • Debian Wheezy (by Robert on 2013-03-04 14:18:04 GMT from Germany)
Debian with 206 RC bugs? I think kernel 3.2 is another big bug and there it is 206+1 bug. I offer to stay with this RC and see what patches comes with the first RedHat 7.0 beta to copy them for Debian for really stability.
15 • Distro "Justification" (by The Linux Cat on 2013-03-04 14:20:42 GMT from United States)
I think a carefully thought-out mission statement is important to focus the developers on concrete goals and explain to potential users why the distro is useful. An added bonus is that it makes evaluating whether a distro fits the user's needs easier.
The developer does need to justify their distro to anyone but themselves ultimately.
16 • re Pure OS 7 (by hylas on 2013-03-04 14:34:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
@12 no because the download is a zip not an iso. Is that possible to do from a zip?
17 • Re: Arch and Jason (by Kevin on 2013-03-04 14:46:25 GMT from United States)
@10 - And thats exactly the reason Jason argues against the derivatives. People who want to skip RTFM should not be using Arch. Part of running Arch is performing regular updates and keeping on top the news and doing maintenance as required. If a person isn't willing to do the installation, what else would they not be willing to do?
18 • Debian (by jan on 2013-03-04 14:46:31 GMT from Poland)
As many other linux users, I was expecting Wheezy to be finally released way back in spring 2012. It is very disturbing to read the same story for over a year now - "we have 200 critical bugs and don't anticipate the situation to be any better soon". I just read on the Debian page that the Project Leader has a one year tenure, but the present Leader will soon start his third term. It looks to me like a real crisis in leadership. What if the kernel development was run the same way the Debian project is run right now?
Maybe there is a need to reevaluate the goals and the organization of the project itself. Life goes on, people get or loose jobs, they fall in love or fall sick, a million reasons to say I have no time, I have other, more important things to do. The management is there to lead and if your are not a true leader, no one will follow you.
Maybe the people who feel gratitude to the Debian Project (like Mr. Shuttleworth) could contribute, not cash, but the business acumen that the Debian project lacks, to help it on its feet? As far as Europe is concerned, why not try to elevate the status of the project to a higher social purpose utility (promotion of freedom and freedom of speech) to get some EU financing?
Debian is a project very important to the freedoms we all enjoy today and it sure looks like it were in deep trouble now.
19 • Does RR stand for Rolling Release? (by Marco on 2013-03-04 15:30:38 GMT from United States)
Seriously, one of the reasons for using Kubuntu is to follow the KDE SC schedule. So 13.04 will ship with KDE SC 4.10. This may be more difficult with Rolling Releases and LTS.
20 • Re: Arch and Jason (by marcs100 on 2013-03-04 15:58:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
@17
That maybe so but even seasoned Arch users some times just want to get up and running quickly. The current install method for Arch IMHO is not difficult but it is tedious! As I understand it it is only this way due to Arch not wanting to maintain the antiquated installer any more.
21 • Re: 12 remastering Ubuntu 12.04.2 (by hobbitland on 2013-03-04 16:15:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I don't use any of the GUI remastering tools for Ubuntu as they are buggy and had to follow. I developer my own system and all commandline.
I unpack the "iso" using "7z x -y", uncompress the seuashfs and chroot. Basically the key thing is documenting all your tweaks in a txt file. Here are the basics and its simpler than any of the GUIs (for me). You cna update a chroot klike a real system using commandline.
Actually I have just remastered Ubuntu 12.04.2 with the new Linux 3.5 kernel * zram but not the new xorg. I don't share my remasters just with friends and family. learn to remaster one of the major distro and you will learn more about Linux.
rm -rf iso; mkdir iso
(cd iso; 7z x -y ../ubuntu-*.iso; rm -rf [BOOT])
rm -rf squashfs-root; unsquashfs iso/casper/filesystem.squashfs
echo remaster > squashfs-root/etc/hostname
mount -o bind /dev squashfs-root/dev
mount -o bind /proc squashfs-root/proc
mount -o bind /shared squashfs-root/shared
mount -t tmpfs -o size=256m,noatime,nosuid,nodev tmpfs squashfs-root/tmp
mount -o bind /var/run/dbus squashfs-root/var/run/dbus
chroot squashfs-root /bin/bash
...
exit
umount squashfs-root/dev
umount squashfs-root/proc
umount squashfs-root/shared
umount squashfs-root/tmp
umount squashfs-root/var/run/dbus
And:
cp -p squashfs-root/boot/vmlinuz-*efi* iso/casper/vmlinuz.efi
rm -rf ramdisk; mkdir ramdisk
(cd ramdisk; gzip -d < ../squashfs-root/boot/initrd.img-* | \
cpio -imvd --no-absolute-filenames)
sed -e "25s/\$USERNAME//" ramdisk/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init \
> ramdisk/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init-new
chmod 755 ramdisk/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init-new
mv ramdisk/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init-new \
ramdisk/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init
rm -f iso/casper/initrd.lz
(cd ramdisk; find . | cpio --quiet --dereference -o -H newc | lzma -9 > \
../iso/casper/initrd.lz)
cp -p iso/isolinux/txt.cfg iso/isolinux/isolinux.cfg
(cd /boot; ln -sf `ls -1t vmlinuz-* | head -1` vmlinuz)
(cd /boot; ln -sf `ls -1t initrd.img-* | head -1` initrd.img)
chroot squashfs-root dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Version}\n'\
> iso/casper/filesystem.manifest
rm iso/casper/filesystem.squashfs
mksquashfs squashfs-root iso/casper/filesystem.squashfs
chmod 644 iso/casper/filesystem.squashfs
(cd iso; find -type f | grep -v boot.cat | md5sum > md5sum.txt)
chown -R owner:owner iso
genisoimage -D -r -V "Ubuntu 12.04.2+ LTS amd64" \
-cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat \
-no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table \
-o ubuntu-12.04.2+amd64.iso iso
22 • Steam on Linux (by SilentSam on 2013-03-04 16:55:46 GMT from Canada)
OpenSuse 12.2 has an incredibly easy install process for Steam as well, and I wasn't forced to upgrade my nvidia drivers either. Steam seems to be well supported on most of the major distros.
23 • Distro I haven't seen yet (by Piete on 2013-03-04 17:12:19 GMT from Brazil)
There is definitely a type of Linux distribution I'd like to see: one that defaults to maximum power savings so that laptop users could install it and not to be worried about their battery life.
Today's computers are so powerful that I rarely need all their processing power, and I would like to have performance as an option, not the default. If such distribution already exists, I am more than happy to try it. I also wouldn't mind if it had an option to use a legacy kernel, since one of my laptops has a legacy GPU and so far the best mileage comes with Debian Lenny with the proprietary ATI driver.
The moment I get more battery life of a default linux installation than the good old Windows XP is the moment I switch to Linux for good.
24 • @19 Kubuntu is not alone (by Marco on 2013-03-04 17:18:06 GMT from United States)
> * What are we going to do with Xfce 4.12 having a release target of 2013-03-10?
> Are the timing of new Xfce releases going to give us issues akin to what the Kubuntu team is facing with KDE SC releases?
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/community-xubuntu-contingencies
25 • @23 Power saving distro (by DavidEF on 2013-03-04 17:57:32 GMT from United States)
Piete,
Have you tried wattOS yet? From the Distrowatch page: "wattOS is a fast desktop Linux distribution based on Ubuntu. Using the lightweight Openbox window manager as its default user interface, the distribution strives to be as energy-efficient as possible so that it can be used on low-specification and recycled computers."
The Distrowatch page for wattOS: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=wattos
The wattOS website: http://www.planetwatt.com/
26 • Ubuntu Rolling (by Arve Eriksson on 2013-03-04 18:17:27 GMT from Sweden)
Rolling or not...? I pretty much agree with the Canonical rep: LTS will in that case have to stay, or Ubuntu loses all relevance as a production OS. On the other hand, the serrah Warner makes some relevant sounding points. Knowing nothing of any sort about programming, I'll just stick my head in an ostrich, or whatever.
27 • 17 Re: Arch and Jason (by Ron on 2013-03-04 18:17:42 GMT from United States)
"...People who want to skip RTFM should not be using Arch. Part of running Arch is performing regular updates and keeping on top the news and doing maintenance as required. If a person isn't willing to do the installation, what else would they not be willing to do?"
So glad you asked. I would not be willing to use an OS that actually promises breakdowns and maintenance as something to be expected. Yep, I read TFM and installed Arch, it was great for a couple weeks. Updated a few times, great, updated another time - boooomp nada. Black screen, crash, nada.
Using Xubuntu 12.04 and everything going well, do updates almost daily, no problems.
28 • Meh... rolling releases, Debian bugs, Arch, distro diversity, oh my! (by JWJones on 2013-03-04 18:36:01 GMT from United States)
So many things for the newcomer to Linux to consider. I've done my share of distro-hopping since I began in 2000. Stuck with Debian and Debian-based most of the time. Tried Arch, which is fun to toy around with, if you need the latest and greatest. I've moved everything to Slackware 14: 32-bit w/xfce on the old desktop, Slackware-current (KDE 4.10, kernel 3.7.1) on the laptop. Problem solved. I guess the final frontier is either Gentoo or LFS. Or not.
29 • Distro I haven't seen yet (by kc1di on 2013-03-04 19:06:06 GMT from United States)
#23 try fuduntu -- "Laptop and Netbook users will be pleased to know that Fuduntu is optimized for on the go computing and provides tools to help achieve maximum battery life when untethered. You may realize improved battery life of 30% or more over other Linux distributions." Their claim not mine but they are better than some.
30 • Re: Distro I haven't seen yet (by Piete on 2013-03-04 19:22:55 GMT from Brazil)
@25 and @30: Thanks for the suggestions, I know of both distros, and a while ago at least their websites didn't impress me, but seeing that bold claim (30% more may still not equal to Windows's battery life) I will give them both a try as soon as I have some spare time. :) In the meanwhile, other suggestions are also welcome!
31 • Debian bugs (by darry1966 on 2013-03-04 20:33:31 GMT from New Zealand)
A lot of Debian problems would bed resolved by getting rid of pulse audio from the standard installation and just make sure alsa is working fine.
Tried Wheezy pulse audio was just awwwwwwwwwful.
Slackware works fine without it.
In a word simple is beautiful in design.
32 • Re: Arch and Jason (by Kevin Vesga on 2013-03-04 22:14:51 GMT from United States)
@27 - Choosing a distro that fits your needs is fine and people who don't want breakage would not be encouraged to try Arch Linux anyways.
However the article was specifically talking about Arch-based distrolets which is a different issue. With these distrolets, you skip the Arch installation process but you still end up with Arch packages, repos, etc.
33 • KISSing cousins (by :wq on 2013-03-04 22:51:40 GMT from United States)
I view some of the Arch derivatives much like I view some of Gentoo’s derivatives (such as Calculate Linux). They aren't meant to subvert the learning process, their primary use is just to provide a quicker initial setup for those users who are okay with the setups those derivatives provide. There are a few that may go further than that, such as Manjaro which claims "Manjaro-Linux will be 100% compatible with Arch-Linux but uses well tested snapshots of Arch-Linux instead. We manage our repository with our own developed tool called BoxIt which is designed like git. This means for our users they still have a rolling release but not so fast as Arch-Linux might be. AUR is still usable and you have all features you know from Arch-Linux. This way we provide a stable system which is still up-to-date. Another feature will be our hardware detection...", in which case perhaps more distinction needs to be drawn between the derivative's objectives and Arch's objectives. Those derivatives who pattern their website designs off of Arch's website should also probably not do so (such as ArchBang's and CTKArch's websites, to a fair extent Arch Hurd's and Parabola GNU/Linux-libre's websites, and any others of similar design I've missed), as to some degree that could present the appearance that they are under some sort of common project banner. I do agree that users of Arch derivatives shouldn't visit the Arch forums expecting any help (much the same as PC-BSD users shouldn't expect support on FreeBSD's forums), but many of these derivative distro projects maintain their own forums (and don't link to Arch's website for forums or other support). To the degree that feathers are being ruffled, then perhaps derivatives should approach the matter of their lineage similarly to the RHEL derivative CentOS, that is to say not directly mentioning on what they are based (such as "CentOS is an Enterprise-class Linux Distribution derived from ... a prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor").
34 • Steam and issues. (by JWM on 2013-03-04 23:37:22 GMT from United States)
I hope you can look into some of the issues with Steam. Users who want to get the most out of their hardware will want to run 64bit Linux, but Steam is currently 32bit. Some have been able to get this to work on 64 bit, but the less hearty have had problems or are very weary of trying. I dual boot to play Unreal Tour. I have not been able to get this to run natively on Linux as some have claimed. I could not get wine to work with Halo either. Can you do a bit on installing Steam? // Go Cinnamon.....Unity bites (worse than ever) and UEFI is a headache....
35 • Rolling release Ubuntu (by cflow on 2013-03-05 00:00:23 GMT from United States)
I really wouldn't mind a rolling release if they stay fully committed to stability and compatibility (no broken updates). ... However, looking at the context they are in as of today - building their own display server called "MIr" and recreating Unity with QML called "Unity Next" - I would really hope they wouldn't start it out until they finally get all their new impending technologies stable enough to use. They have they got some work to do... Those canonical developers always keep linux users on their toes!
Now, if only they could combine the tools and options of other distros and desktops, like how people here suggested...
36 • Re: 18 • Debian (by jan on 2013-03-04 14:46:31 GMT from Poland) (by forthurst on 2013-03-05 00:50:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why expect a release of Wheezy in Spring 2012? Debian has an approximate 2 year release cycle and the freeze was not until Summer 2012, so Wheezy is slightly late. The number of RC bugs is now down to 137 as the release team are starting to throw their weight around. There has been a slight snarl up because of a conflict between a bug fix version and a development version of a package both using the Testing branch post freeze; this is to be resolved for future releases. There will be a new Project Leader in a few weeks, probably after the release as Franco Zachirolli will not be standing again. Things really aren't that bad.
37 • Installing Arch (by Charles on 2013-03-05 01:55:32 GMT from United States)
@20 I'm not sure what you find so tedious about installing Arch. I've done it dozens of times and it's pretty straightforward. Yes, you need to do some typing and you need to know how to use console tools like fdisk and nano. What I find far more tedious in other disto's install routines (like CentOS, Debian, openSusE, etc.), is going through and *unchecking* all of the options I don't want installed. I like Mageia, but if I want a simple LAMP server with no graphical desktop, it takes almost as long to remove all of the extraneous stuff from the default installation choices as it does to copy the files from the DVD. Rolling releases aside, I think the coolest thing about Arch by far is that I get a system with *only* the packages I want, without having to comb through a list of packages that the distro designer *thinks* I want.
38 • Docky, AWN, Cairo Dock, Unity (by Greg Zeng on 2013-03-05 02:06:11 GMT from Australia)
May 8 '11:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/40878/how-can-docky-awn-cairo-dock-and-unity-be-compared/264096#264096
I've continued the discussion in the thread in ASKUBUNTU.com. It follows from the topic:
why so many distros (forks, diversity, human resource scattering, wheel re-inventing, etc) ??
Sine the latest KDE can imitate or emulate Unity, Cairo, Docky, IOS, Windows7, Window8, AWN, Compiz, ... why don't we all abandon those other docks, taskbars and distros, and just support development of KDE ??
In my follow-on in the Askubuntu thread from 2 years ago, I favor the XFCE interface for light, fast distros. Informative eye-candy, retaining the speed & resources of XFCE, I use the current versions of KDE, is in Mine-KDE or Netrunner ATM.
Our data is independent of the operating system used (on a NTFS-3G partitions/ drives, backup online & off-line), but accessed by any of 8 distros or operating systems. NTFS-3G is defragged, repaired by a W7 op-sys. AFAIK, ext4 has no reliable defrag, nor recover/ repair app.
39 • From a proprietary-OS corporate espionage manual (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-03-05 02:10:36 GMT from United States)
"Divide and Conquer" beats "works well with others": encourage diversity.
40 • Debian and related distros (by darry1966 on 2013-03-05 02:42:55 GMT from New Zealand)
Agree with Fossilizing Dinosaur divide and conquer so many variants of Debian yet the parent is in crisis with so many bugs and what are they doing to help?
Case of too many variants. Choice is good but too much choice is not when the base Distro is clearly not in a good way.
41 • more than one video opened at a time (by Candide on 2013-03-05 02:43:08 GMT from Taiwan)
If accidentally opening more than one video at a time is a problem, may I suggest installing and using emelfm2 as a file browser. It's very simple to use and great for simple tasks like moving, renaming and deleting files. When double-clicking on a file name (like a video), it won't automatically open it, but rather will ask you what you want to do.
If you DO in fact want to open a file by double-clicking, you can use a different browser for that purpose. There are many good ones to choose from in Linux. I personally like Krusader, but if you want something more lightweight check out pcmanfm and thunar.
42 • @23 (Piete) (by LAZA on 2013-03-05 10:11:01 GMT from Germany)
I would suggest Puppy Linux 'Wary' 5.5, which was released just these days but supports old and really old hardware, kernel 2.6 and older Xorg which can updated (if you want so).
An older version just worked great on my notebook from 2000 with an Celeron A and 64 MB RAM!
43 • 38 • NTFS on linux (by greg on 2013-03-05 10:35:19 GMT from Slovenia)
THe reason ext4 doesn't have defrager is because it hardy ever gets defragmented. if you look a bit on how it works you iwll see that data doesn't really get fragmented. which is why linux mashcines will run as fast as they did on start on hude drives even with no defragmentation.
it's a similar thing with recover/repair. there are tools. reliable tools.ddrescue, testdisk, mondo rescue and such. in fact those tools are also able to recover repair windows drives. check the data recovery ubuntu documentation for more info (since you run krunner)
and nothing beats a good backup.
there are better file systems than ext4 in linux.and you can use them. most (if not all) are better than NTFS.
44 • Arch with wireless (by Julian on 2013-03-05 11:44:58 GMT from United States)
I wanted to use Arch a year or two ago but the derivatives were the only ones that gave me what I wanted: to be able to get up and running without using wired internet. I now have access to wired internet but I still prefer a distro to work with wireless immediately upon install. Am impressed with Puppy for that reason and for its no fuss approach to saving RAM/disk space.
45 • 44 • Arch with wireless (by mandog on 2013-03-05 12:07:00 GMT from Peru)
arch does give you wireless on install its on the install disk you just need to pacman -S package name to install. people need to read the wiki and beginners guide 1st.If you don't need wireless tools why should you be forced to install them. That is the arch philosophy KISS.
46 • Re: Distro I haven't seen yet (by Piete on 2013-03-05 12:29:10 GMT from Brazil)
@42 (LAZA): Thanks, but the issue is not normally the old hardware support as such. Even the resource hog Windows Vista gives a good battery life, and the last time I used Puppy that was not the case (but it was before open radeon driver had any power management). I will still put Wary on my testing list. :)
47 • @44 that is not KISS (by greg on 2013-03-05 13:29:23 GMT from Slovenia)
KISS means that it is so simple even an idiot could use it. And in this case it is, as you've indicated. only you need to read a lot before you start using it. not a simple thing. not a mini thing as well.
in my opinion a person doesn't need to know how to make a carborator and where to install it in order to drive a car.sending screws and part to someone and saying "here assemble it to drive. it's simple. all you need to do is read the manual on how to do it". this is not KISS principle. KISS principle is what we have you buy a car turn the key (nowadays press a button) and away you go. it's so simple even a kid can do it.
derivatives might be closer to the principle.
48 • commercial apps...(rebellin & co) (by amadus on 2013-03-05 14:23:07 GMT from France)
I still cannot understand how can some people ask for money on behalf of the work and effort of others? In such a case, a donation would be profitable to all... (here to Debian, eventhough it's not the one i use) think fair, it's open&free!
49 • About KDE and rolling release. (by ismaelvc on 2013-03-05 15:16:31 GMT from Mexico)
@ hobbitland #8:
You can also remaster arch:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Remastering_the_Install_ISO
@ The Linux Cat #15:
You may be interseted in Chakra if you like KDE and have 64 bit cpu, it's
release model is called half-rolling and I think it's just what you are
thinking, even if you don't like KDE or have 64 bit cpu there is the proof the concept it posible, wish more distros moved to this kind of model.
@ Marco #19:
I don't think it is more difficult, just look at Arch, it's rolling release
model already has KDE 4.10.0-1 and all KDE packages are mantained by Andrea
Scarpino only and Chakra already has 4.10.1-2 in their stable repos and
4.10.1-3
in testing.
50 • Rebellin (by Frank on 2013-03-05 16:19:47 GMT from United States)
I guess Rebellin just went out of business :)
51 • @47 that is not KISS (by mandog on 2013-03-05 17:21:20 GMT from Peru)
Arch Linux defines simplicity as without unnecessary additions, modifications, or complications, and provides a lightweight UNIX-like base structure that allows an individual user to shape the system according to their own needs. In short: an elegant, minimalist approach.
A car also needs constant maintenance to keep working at optimum efficiency and a kid can not do it. Read the owners manual of your car and see what you should do on a daily bases. I happen to be part of the 5 billion+ people that that if a car is 30 years old that's new to us.
Back to the original point where in the Arch manual does it say its a beginners distro its for intermediate users. That means you have to be able to spend time reading 1st.
The install is not hard in fact takes around 20 mins.
You only install what you need nothing less nothing more so you keep it simple.
52 • @47, KISS (by notsure on 2013-03-05 17:32:14 GMT from United States)
KISS does not mean that it should be so simple an idiot can use it.
The simplicity is in the design of the operating system, see:
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=review-slackware
53 • KISS - Keep It Short & Simple (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-03-05 18:14:37 GMT from United States)
(47) If you can't pass driving class you don't get a license - it's not for everyone.
That said, deliberate obfuscation or omission (to protect fragile ego?) is inexcusable.
For example, RTFM (ReadTheFullManual) when ThereIsNoManual is inexcusable.
This also applies when the manual is not clear, current or complete.
"Go Fish'n Giggle For'Em" is also inexcusable; a library after a tornado is worth less.
And labeling ignorance as stupidity is unwarranted derogation.
54 • Short and Simple question to 53 (by dbrion on 2013-03-05 18:19:19 GMT from France)
"For example, RTFM (ReadTheFullManual) when ThereIsNoManual is inexcusable."
Can you give a **provable** (IT link) example?
Or is it just a straw man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man technique?
55 • KISS principle (by DavidEF on 2013-03-05 19:41:26 GMT from United States)
Post #52 by notsure has it right. KISS means simplicity in design. It does not mean that it's super easy to use. Ease of use is itself a complex matter. What's easy for you may be difficult for me, so it's also very subjective. Simplicity is not subjective. It is measurable and objective. There are, of course different levels of simplicity. There may even be a case of over-simplification. A certain amount of complexity is often needed to ensure smooth operation. The KISS principle is about making something as simple as it can be and still do its intended work. It has nothing to do with the ability of the person using the tool, but only the tool itself.
56 • @50 Rebellin (by DavidEF on 2013-03-05 19:49:22 GMT from United States)
Frank, I don't wish the Rebellin developer(s) any harm, but I'm sure you must be right. There is seemingly no compelling reason to buy Rebellin. The same technology can be had for free, from other similar distros, and even better ones. I'm not against commercial distros, but I question the validity of taking something that is free, changing only the branding (seemingly), and then attempting to charge for it. Rebellin don't even have their own repositories? What, exactly, are they charging for?
57 • Arch Respin Respect (by Two Cents of Real Copper on 2013-03-05 20:14:36 GMT from United States)
Arch is still very good, but inner group attitudes have gone weird. Things aren't as much fun since Judd quit. It's now a street gang complete with drive-by shootings and hazing rituals: RTFM! Learn the haxorz toolz! Earn your tattoo!
Wryan's claimed forks can scarcely wear the title. I call them respins or flavors. Frugalware and Chakra started repos and constitute forks. ArchBang, ArchMint, BridgeLinux, and Manjaro are respins. Even then, Arch repos reflect gang tastes - the gang ignores votes cast in AUR. For many apps, you can get any color you want, so long as it's black. Asking red or green lands you in eternal AUR.
Wryan says "Arch is a base on which you build your preferred system." OK, so respins use Arch as designed. Hair-splitting about Certified Arch(tm)(c)(r) patent pending, all rights reserved, is very silly.
I don't buy any Microsoft Certified Technician status for Arch users. The teen who can't service her car still drives it and fills the tank. Why do Arch boyz think all Archers must play auto tech? So devs can be lazy, and not keep the thing running well with good engineering? So they can redesign it from scratch every other year, like racing enthusiasts, and pawn overhaul problems on end user incompetence? Why is there still no decent GUI for pacman? At least Manjaro is trying.
If respins fashion nice smooth cars from Arch OEM chassis and parts, sweet. The real Wryan complaint may be that Arch OEM fears competition from retailers. Drive-by shootings from Arch gangbangers terrorize you to stay on homeboy's gang turf.
What is Wryan on about? The Arch brand? Look how many variant penguin logos live in Linux world. We don't hear Linus moaning. Control of Arch users? Then Wryan has a problem with open source licensing.
DistroWatch, please drop Arch gangland shooting news. Let Wryan get busy moving AUR packages to core/extra/community.
Arch should SUPPORT RESPINS and TAKE THEIR FEEDBACK SERIOUSLY and THANK THEM FOR INITIATIVE and generally help.
Notice the fallacy in Wryan's conclusion. He strawmans a false choice between using Arch respins and helping mother Arch. It's possible to do both.
Wryan's false choice fallacy tells you everything. Gangbangers have no concept of cooperation if you run an indy project capable of its own design choices and opinions with a customer base to back them up. Arch, please grow up and start raising your family.
58 • @53 kiss, again (by notsure on 2013-03-05 22:35:06 GMT from United States)
the stupid part isn't labelling the user, but a self derogation of the developer (in good humor) -- don't add , ie... remember to 'keep it simple, stupid'
that being said, a KISS operating system isn't intended (as has been said before) for users desiring autopilot operating systems. the user is in control of the applications, not the other way around
59 • Arch (by ismaelvc on 2013-03-05 22:59:42 GMT from Mexico)
@ Two Cents Of Copper:
If a graphical installer is not in their agenda, then it's not in their agenda, period. Why do you assume it must have a GUI installer?, Arch is exelent for learning linux, but yes I know many users are elitists, still I don't mind them, thankfully when they tell you to RTFM you can actually read one of the very best FM available:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/
And why should they support the other arch based distros?, Arch is whatever you want to make out of it, but you have to make it, not them, they already give you an exellent base, what else do you want?
whats wrong with AUR, I think is a very good idea, if something doesn't compile... fix it! If there is a nasty bug... file it out!
You complain about Arch changing drastically and very fast, but thats exactlly the point, bleeding edge!
What you are not taking into account is all the little and somethimes not so little modifications and custom configurations they do to the respins, why do they have to support those?! If you really think they have to, then you obiously don't know the effort it takes to support, create, and make a distro evolve.
If someone else wants to make a respin, then they should take care of it, why should Arch care, seriously?
I don't understand your logic.
What do you need? an automatic partitioner? Automatic wireless detection?, if so then you still don't understand what arch is all about.
Please note that this is a true reflection, if you sense a bad or harsh tone in my writing it may be I'm not a native english speaker.
60 • Rebellin review (by Barnabyh on 2013-03-06 00:33:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Very sad indeed, these days kids idea of rebellin is putting out a Linux distro. In my day we occupied the university and went on strike with sit-ins, and did some other stuff I cannot write about here, but it was similar to the anti-austerity protests in some countries currently. Seems real life is cut short now in the so-called information age, as people are tranquilized staring at their monitors full of 1s and 0s.
Interestingly, the problem Jesse encountered obviously means his decrypted documents were still in memory after a reboot. It should remind everybody to power down fully and force a cold boot next time.
61 • Semi-rolling (by Jordan Fails on 2013-03-06 04:31:14 GMT from United States)
@13: have you ever run openSUSE? They have a full rolling release (tumbleweed) but there is also a huge set of build service repos that you can add to get updated GNOME/KDE/LibreOffice and other things while still keeping the core of you install stable.
62 • LTS, Battery Power and Rolling on! (by TransformHumanity on 2013-03-06 10:38:09 GMT from India)
#7
" just got sick of installing a new version every half year or so"
"stable "snapshot" for the more safety oriented user."
No one told you what's an LTS? (I am still running Mint 13 based on 10.04)
"linux beginners just don`t recognize that they are stuck with the software they installed with the initial setup"
People are happy being stuck with something 14 years old?
#23 (#25, #30) More battery life - I have been running Ubuntu based distros mostly edubuntu, mint and the like for over 3 1/2 years now. Some little tweaking for power savings though - Spectacular results - the battery on Toshiba Satellite L510 still gives over 3 hours of power after (repeat) 3 1/2 years of daily use of about at least 10 hours with at least one discharge of over 80%.
Your stock pop os would have juiced out the life of the battery in barely 18 months.
I guess its got to do with Linux, meaning any linux distro would do just as good.
But anyways WattOS claims it is power saving. You could try that.
God you wasted four years, as I know it, looking for a linux distro that would save you battery! Switch now - any would probably be way better than what you now have.
#61 Hats off to OpenSuse and Tumbleweed.
63 • K.I.S.S. (by imnotrich on 2013-03-06 17:30:50 GMT from Mexico)
Lately, KISS means in many cases the distro, package or feature was designed by idiots.
Which in turn means that only a Linux genius can get it to function properly.
Not everybody has the resources to buy a new laptop or desktop every 3-4 months just to keep up with all the changes. Developers need to remember this, that hardware support is NOT bloat and although shiny new features may be fun for a small portion of us geeks and hobbyists, the majority of us still use our computers for work too and we don't have endless hours, weeks and months to set up and configure installs.
All distros lately, in varying degrees, seem to place a premium on making things more complicated than they have to be. Twisted fun for hobbyists perhaps but not us normal folks with some tech chops but not enough time to devote to constant experimentation, coding, and commandline BS since we have a "day job" already.
64 • KISS and minimalism (by Pearson on 2013-03-06 17:58:30 GMT from United States)
"Lately, KISS means in many cases the distro, package or feature was designed by idiots."
Not necessarily. In the context of Arch, which AFAIK started this discussion, they are *not* idiots, just minimalists. Their idea of "simple" is to make as few changes to the original author's intents as possible, and maintain as few variations of things as possible, in order to reduce the number of combinations requiring testing. Since Arch is rolling release and "bleeding edge", this allows them to focus in the inevitable breaks that occur on a regular basis. And yes, sometimes they introduce breaks in the Arch-specific tools.
Slackware's idea of simple is similar, without being rolling release and "bleeding edge". Patrick's (controversial) decision to exclude package dependencies is based on simplicity. Who decides what is "required" verses what is "really, really, nice to have"? What if the user wants to provide a dependency with something outside of the Slackware repositories? Slackware also makes as few changes to upstream as possible.
To use the car analogy someone made above. I know a lot of "car guys" who lament modern cars because they *can't* work on them as much; the cars are too complex. So, simple for the college girl who just wants to drive is different from simple for the guy who wants to replace his own parts, optimize his performance or whatnot.
Linux is a diverse community. We can, and should, have room for distributions geared (pun not intended) towards the "car guys" as well as distributions geared towards the college student.
65 • Re: 64 (by Peter on 2013-03-06 18:13:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
So what is KISS to some isn't KISS to others. For some, shipping a base set of vanilla packages where possible is KISS, whereas for other, including things like systemd or automatic dependency resolution would not be KISS. Correct?
66 • @51 mandog (by Ika on 2013-03-06 18:14:04 GMT from Spain)
"...so you keep it simple."
Didn't you forgot something?
...Oh, of course...: "Stupid!"
What Arch developers define as "simple" is in fact THEIR OWN simplicity, not the users one. Behind this mask they name "simplicity" hides, in fact, their own confort or, maybe, the incapacity to provide something really simple for the current user.
Why are they afraid to provide this as an option?
For me, I don't have time to loose in serving an OS. The OS must serve me.
67 • Are Developpers meant to serve users? (by dbrion on 2013-03-06 18:59:21 GMT from France)
There is no definition of simplicity. As users may be different, there is no definition of THE users simplicity (and one might be very stupid to claim one speaks in the name of THE users).
Some cars users liked to go to Sahara in the 1970s-1980s years. Their cars could easily get sanded (was a lot of sand), or broken on stones. They often chose very dificult to drive cars, but very easy to fix without finding a repair shop (it was more unpleasant to stay without water with a broken car : people trained themselves).
Easiness of fixing may be a better criterium than the presence of CLI (I have some colleagues, when I show them the resources involved with some GUIs, they prefer to learn some fast responding command lines).
And are Arch's developpers goal (same thing for Fedora) to serve users (if they are not paid, that would be slavery)
68 • Stupid vs Short (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-03-06 19:18:11 GMT from United States)
Substituting an insult for an important criterion is usually a defensive ad-hominem move by someone who mistakenly thinks keeping a secret gives them some advantage. It masks insecurity, inferiority-complex, and/or hostility. It does not help.
69 • @66.so you keep it simple. (by mandog on 2013-03-06 19:45:54 GMT from Peru)
No I did not forget anything and I don't use words that insult like stupid!
May I suggest you look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man.
What arch developers decide is up to them not you or anybody else. Arch is what they use on a daily basis. If you want to share there work that's fine you are more than welcome, if not There is plenty of choice out there. I personally find Arch easy to use and stable, You can use GUI tools they are all there for those that need them so that myth is not so. as is its hard to install its even easier without the installer than it was with. You need to be able read mind you. I really think if people can waste so much time complaining in places like this they could read the beginners guide. or maybe its the word beginners that puts them off.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. (Mark Twain)" and go elswhere
70 • @68 (by notsure on 2013-03-06 20:01:42 GMT from United States)
it's a self degrading insult (not directed at the user), what is the secret? i guess i don't follow. Everything is there, open to the world - including documentation. kiss is for people who WANT it that way. To (mis)quote alienBOB: "then don't use it"
71 • @65, and others (by Pearson on 2013-03-06 20:42:08 GMT from United States)
"So what is KISS to some isn't KISS to others"
Yes, you understood me.
Another analogy that comes to mind is giving driving directions. There are different definitions of "simple". For some, "simple" directions may mean only use major routes with clear signs. For others, "simple" directions would be fewest turns. For yet another group, "simple" would mean least number of traffic stops.
Let's apply this idea to Arch installation. It is very simple - you read the Wiki and you follow the steps. It is also tedious a bit tedious (which some consider "not simple for me").
The question that has been asked several times, but I think mostly rhetorically, is "simple for whom?" The question itself reveals the complexity of the word. As someone else said, Arch is developed for and by Arch developers. It's become popular by the hobbyists
72 • Rebellin Linux (by Stefan on 2013-03-06 21:57:01 GMT from Sweden)
Reading through the comments it looks like many of you don't seem to understand how free software works. Charging for SUPPORT is perfectly fine. And that's what Rebellin says they do. So I'm just asking myself if they really thought this through. They should be charging $50. Because if everybody who buys their product needs support for only 1 hour within a year, they'll be working for.. guess what.. 5 bucks an hour.
73 • Rebellin (by Ada on 2013-03-06 22:28:33 GMT from Italy)
Stefan + 1
Finally one guy who thinks like me.
Purchased and installed Rebellin since 2 months, it took me only ten minutes to
install without the crazy issued like boot problems.
All my hardware recognized immediately out of the box.
Why tested on VM? Try on physical computer and the lapidary review might change.
74 • Stupid vs Short (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-03-07 02:18:49 GMT from United States)
"it's a self degrading insult (not directed at the user)" Then I recommend you add an asterisk (KISS*) and explanatory footnote, since every time this detail is left out readers cannot ignore the rest of the normal context.
75 • K.I.S.S. (by imnotrich on 2013-03-07 04:32:40 GMT from Mexico)
For sake of clarity, I would consider video and networking capabilities to be rather basic for any distro.
A distro that can't handle one or both of those features isn't simple. It's stupid.
Add Squeeze, Wheezy, Most recent puppies, the last 5 versions of Mint, and even Ubuntu since about version 10 to that list.
I'm going to give Rebellin a spin. Maybe having one brilliant mind instead of a bunch of brilliant prima donnas running a distro will convey some advantage and help with common sense priorities that these committee run distros seem to lack.
76 • Rebellin is debian but... (by Steve on 2013-03-07 05:40:29 GMT from United States)
Read the review and immediately downloaded Rebellin Adrenaline. Installs fine! Gnome Shell starts under 150 MB! Don't know how the kid managed to do that but it's amazing. I'm not a newbie, so I just tinkered around the distro and stopped many unwanted start up services bringing down the RAM usage to around 134MB. I have tested the distro on as many systems I could find including my 2004 P4 which chugs along fine with WinXP. Rebellin is extremely fluid. So what if its just Debian? It does the job!
The only hiccup I had was with my wifi. But the kid solved it within hours. I didn't need the help actually, just wanted to give a shot to his '$5 email support'. And he's damn good! And $5 is super cheap. Email support is the need. It's faster than any forum out there. +1 for $50 Stefan (Comment 72).
No sport Jesse. You robbed a poor man of his business. He's just starting for Christ's sake. It's just version 1.00! With great power comes great responsibility. You misused the power of DW. Now be a sport and don't delete this comment!
77 • Open source Support (by Linux Fan on 2013-03-07 06:30:03 GMT from India)
Thanks Distrowatch for supporting Linux by your small donation, it will not only speed up development of Open source projects but also bring attention of people towards us
78 • RE 68,74 : ask wikipedia for simple explanations (by dbrion on 2013-03-07 07:44:29 GMT from France)
"Substituting an insult for an important criterion is usually a defensive ad-hominem move by someone who mistakenly thinks keeping a secret gives them some advantage. It masks insecurity, inferiority-complex, and/or hostility. It does not help."
Well, I suppose the US navy, where the KISS concept was explicitly stated in 1960 (30 yrs before GNUlinux happened) felt inferior, unsecure (being a soldier is sometimes a dangerous job), and hostile (they were paid for that, messeems).
It is very simple and straightforward to know that this concept was not invented by arch developpers : just ask wikipedia.... -no need for a footnote....)
Ease of maintenance , even by someone stupid, may be an interesting criterium (during war times, sometimes people do not have time enough to be intelligent and things need to be quickly fixed).
79 • Arch discussion arose bec of mention of Wryan article (by Hoos on 2013-03-07 10:44:22 GMT from Singapore)
It seems to me that it was Wryan's article critical of the need and reason for Arch-based derivative distros that started this debate here, not the critics of Arch that did so.
I understand his point that people not willing to invest the time and effort reading through the "manual" should not use Arch Linux itself. It's expressly meant to be a tinkerer's start-from-scratch distro, so no one should be able to demand that they cater to out-of-the-box users. And I think it's fair that there can't be an expectation that the Arch Linux community/developers support or answer questions from Arch-based derivative users.
However, I see no need for Arch users or supporters to go on to say that the Arch derivatives don't have their own place or reason for existence in the wide Linux universe.
Take this excerpt quoted by DW:"If you think that you can just skip the whole tiresome RTFM thing by downloading a derivative and installing that, how exactly do you expect to be able to run a rolling-release distro that has, on average, a couple of significant changes every year? Sooner or later you are going to have to come to terms with the responsibility that is an integral part of this type of rolling release and, if you have installed it yourself, you will be much better placed to be able to build on that understanding and broaden and deepen your knowledge of your system."
Sticking with the car analogy, just like there are car owners who want to tinker with, work on and maintain their own cars, there are also those who prefer to let a mechanic work on it. If an Arch derivative was willing to deal with the significant changes so that the end-user had an easier time with the rolling release nature of Arch, is that so wrong?
Along the way the user of a derivative can still widen their knowledge about Linux and Arch in particular, but at a gentler pace and from a perhaps more forgiving forum. In fact, the less intimidating atmosphere might encourage some users to learn where previously they might not have dared to.
I believe both sides have their place, and appeal to different types of users.
80 • @72...rebellin & co (by amadus on 2013-03-07 11:34:29 GMT from France)
@72 not understanding how open source works, thank you for pointing it out... (ironic of course!).
Not reinventing others' wheel, but adding 'steering' to it, is helpful both to open source and all people at the same time. Charging for help, why not... but for the, and as, an added value, of course. That, will keep the open source's wheel turning!
Rebellin and others have done the same, didn't live for long and disappeared. What a loss! If they only added some more letters to the 'great book of the open source ' not only changing the cover... and charging for it.
Of course it's just a point of view, and if someone needs some help in uderstanding it, it's only 1c the word... (peanuts!)
81 • the graphics stack mess (by meanpt on 2013-03-07 11:55:55 GMT from Portugal)
It seems canonical wants to part with its own stuff, curiously codenamed "Mir", meaning "Peace" in the Russion language - but peace it ain't, this time, while sending a goodby kiss to wailand and xorg - Mir was also the name of the former russian space station, me thinking if mr mark shuttle something wants to revive his adventurous space trip. Unity is to be recoded in QT/QML - heckt, will we have unity 2D back? Beyond the usual alien ruberish talk in the canonical statments, one gets confused: is it for the better, or for more and more bloat on the desktop? At least, will canonical deliver anything anounced? I'm sick of those "seamless user experience and desktop integration" which only brought a system resource hunger without any fit for a touch screen nor for a resourceless netbook. Even the plasma desktop seems more fit for a hybrid use for both touch and non touch screens. In short, what the hell is going in those heads? And where the current buntu users fit?
82 • @79 (by Sam Graf on 2013-03-07 13:38:55 GMT from United States)
Well said even as a general observation. There are more Linux users in the world as a direct result of the efforts of the derivative developers and their releases.
I get that there are some who question the value of more Linux users if they are merely users and return little to nothing back. Or worse, that a segment of the more users is a demanding lot. But I for one and grateful for the kinder, gentler approach taken by some Linux developers. Without their work, I would have had no hope of learning.
83 • @74 (by notsure on 2013-03-07 14:28:35 GMT from United States)
well, 'I' didn't/can't/won't be adding an '*' to anything. maybe people shouldn't personalize everything, and learn what things are. like 78 said, wikipedia...works for me.
84 • @81 (by alex on 2013-03-07 16:38:46 GMT from Denmark)
Canonical's convergence story that they've been marketing every which way may end up being a convergence of poorly planned or poorly implemented goals. I hope Canonical doesn't end up being the kid who urinates in the public (the greater Linux community) pool.
85 • Arch and derivate (by tuxtest on 2013-03-07 17:12:11 GMT from Canada)
@66 I agree with!
The approach of Arch is exceeded in 2013. What was good in 1999 is no longer in 2013. We all need to evolve with the times.
The derived distribution are often the result of the conservative development of mother distro in terms of ease of use.
best regard at all
86 • Rebellin (by Ada on 2013-03-07 21:56:28 GMT from Italy)
Rebellin is well alive and improved v1.5 will be available very soon.
87 • openSUSE extended support through Evergreen project (by Andy Prough on 2013-03-08 07:15:44 GMT from United States)
In his Q&A section this week, Jesse said "running openSUSE means accepting a shorter support cycle, moving to CentOS with its long term support means having old desktop applications".
But actually, openSUSE extends its support for more than a total of 3 years for its releases through the community supported Evergreen project - similar to the average 3 years of community support provided for CentOS releases.
Project Evergreen's goal is to provide 3 years of support for all openSUSE releases, and to "to provide updates for all parts of the distribution". The Evergreen team has made the process as painless as possible - admins simply need to add one repository.
88 • Rebellin&co... (by amadus on 2013-03-08 12:39:56 GMT from France)
@85 waiting for version 15...
and @ all derivatives
Still, one reason for all clones to exist, starting from version Zero, is: "WHAT IS THE ADDED VALUE?"... definitely not numbering versions!
89 • CentOS Long Term Support (by Johnny Hughes on 2013-03-09 10:48:06 GMT from United States)
@87 Except CentOS has support for 7 to 10 years, not 3 years.
90 • Rebellin (by Ada on 2013-03-09 12:32:21 GMT from Italy)
I'm in no way involved in the Rebellin project; however my considerations are that
Rebellin can easily justify its existence because it fills the huge gap
IMO, between the all around distributions who constantly preach how
great they are, and the gross distribution with heavy components, who
have a GUI for everything. Rebellin is richly endowed, easy to lunch and
heavy with applications, which can be easily removed if you want to go
light, or keep if you need them. And last, but MOST important and of
significant value, is the reality of the simple, unlimited, unquestioned email support
for the whole lifetime of the product.
Email support is the need. It's faster than any forum out there.
91 • Rebellin (To comment 90) (by Steve on 2013-03-09 13:53:06 GMT from United States)
Email support is needed. Forums are painfully slow and chaotic for new users. I'm not new, but even I hate the whole process. Someone finds an answer to your query, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! Not reliable at all.
People are used to getting stuff for free in the Linux world. When I saw Rebellin I smiled. I knew the guy would get a beating for charging $5! But personally, I support his way. Email support for $5 for the lifetime of the product is dirt cheap. And he's doing pretty good job of it!
This review is a cheap shot at a distro with email support that is dirt cheap!
92 • Diversity : Ordissimo and Rapsberry Pi (by dbrion on 2013-03-09 15:57:15 GMT from France)
Well, there is something in France which looks like Rebellin, it is Ordissimo, meant for very old people http://www.senior-market.fr/technologies-communication/ordinateur-simplifie-ordissimo.html
(they have no time to waste upgrading software, just want to use it).
It is Debian based (in fact, debian)
It is already installed and the computers are sold 100 E$ more than their XP/7 equivalent (which makes Rebellin "fees" very symbolic)
The package manager is out of the owner's control (it was the only point in Rebellins review which had defaults) .
The other side of prices is Rapsbery Pi; for ca 20-25E$, you have a keyboardless, screenless board, with about the same processing power as a PC (arm-based). (keyboard can be a USB one or a putty link, screen can be a salvaged one -for graphics- or a putty link).
Disk is a SD card, with a choice of two GNUlinux systems http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads (gcc is shipped, as well as python as it was meant ... to teach Python):
Debian : it has binary ports to ARMs for years.
Arch Linux (may be it is more pleasant for Arch devs to port to an ARM architecture, rather than answering the same question for the hundredth time : when one speaks about reading the Holy manual, it is often because of a quite usual question, which has been answered years ago).
RPi is often used as an electronic component (and electronic hobbyists are**not** GNU linux specialists : here is an answer to 63 "Which in turn means that only a Linux genius can get it to function properly.
").
There was a great demand (some people, in november, thought RPi was vaporware) among electronic hobbyists.
93 • Cent OS Live CD (by piruthiviraj Natarajan on 2013-03-09 17:31:40 GMT from India)
Why dont the RHEL clones(CentOS 6.4 and SL 6.3) release the LiveCD/DVDs on the release date?
Why isn't the liveCD not a priority for them?
94 • @93 Cent (by tuxtest on 2013-03-09 21:50:47 GMT from Canada)
Just be patient a couple day and the liveDVD, liveCD coming.
CentOs is a Big name great Distro vesatility * server and desktop * and his develement are done with serious.
" Everything comes to him who waits. "
95 • 43 • 38 EXT4, NTFS not good! ?? (by gregzeng on 2013-03-10 13:19:40 GMT from Australia)
43 • 38 • NTFS on linux
"THe reason ext4 doesn't have defrager is because it hardy ever gets defragmented. ...there are better file systems than ext4 in linux.and you can use them. most (if not all) are better than NTFS."
On PCs, EXT4 is chosen by most Linux users afaik. Many published tests show that Ext4 is the fastest format for PCs. Not needing defragging is often used by some, but for PCs with smaller hard disk drives & partitions, I believe defragging in mechanically & logically needed. Exceptions might be for electronic storage (SSD, etc) or multi-TB drives that are mostly empty.
greg from Slovenia - where are your references (for PCs)?
96 • @89 (by Andy Prough on 2013-03-11 02:53:28 GMT from United States)
>"@87 Except CentOS has support for 7 to 10 years, not 3 years."
Those are just the longterm support security patches converted from RHEL. CentOS active feature support ends after 3-4 years. SUSE users who need 8-10 years of guaranteed security support would get SUSE's enterprise version - SLES. Unfortunately, I don't know of a no-cost clone, like CentOS is for RHEL.
Longterm support in enterprise editions is necessary, but supporting a community version of an everyday, cutting edge desktop like openSUSE for 7-10 years wouldn't make much sense. Users who refused to upgrade would be stuck using some packages that had been abandoned many years ago by their developer communities. Much more secure to push desktop users to upgrade occasionally.
97 • @87 Re: Evergreen's...3 yrs support for all openSUSE releases (clarification) (by Suse User on 2013-03-11 06:16:45 GMT from Australia)
>>But actually, openSUSE extends its support for more than a total of 3 years for its releases through the community supported Evergreen project - similar to the average 3 years of community support provided for CentOS releases.
Project Evergreen's goal is to provide 3 years of support for all openSUSE releases, and to "to provide updates for all parts of the distribution". The Evergreen team has made the process as painless as possible - admins simply need to add one repository.<<
Hi Andy,
FYI, Evergreen is NOT supporting every openSUSE release (though that may have been an original goal previously) but seems to be selecting to support only one release at a time, 11.4 at present to be supported until July 2014 (with a possible extension of a few months if the next supported release is 13.1).
I was just today reading an Evergreen list discussion by the main contributors about choosing the next release to be supported, which would either be 12.3 or 13.1.
[Evergreen] 12.3 vs 13.1 Evergreen
http://lists.rosenauer.org/pipermail/evergreen/2013-March/001068.html
Number of Comments: 97
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