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1 • Manjaro (by Ajay on 2013-01-14 09:15:08 GMT from India)
Thanks for the review!
Just wanted to let the readers know that we are currently working on a graphical installer! You should see it in the near future.
Cheers!
2 • most important open source projects... (by cflow on 2013-01-14 10:03:44 GMT from United States)
Overall I see a couple often overlooked and underestimated projects in open source that are extremely important:
1. Blender: This 3-d animation and modeling software is getting very useful features quite quickly, but really keeping the bug count quite low for its size. Its even just now getting mentioned by several other 3-d sites out there, and it is one of the few applications -not a desktop environment nor OS component- that has such a wide, sustainable development community for something that's open source. I'll definitely watch it grow!
2. Qt5: This toolkit hit a point such that it can help make applications run natively in so many platforms, and a new company now owns it that might utilize such a toolkit. Even Ubuntu considers QML as the standard for making its phone apps.
I'm pretty surprised that ubuntu wasn't the list. It's probably more important that many other operating systems - it's the one that gathers the media attention and drama that gets all the open source projects worked up and thinking about how things should work! Don't underestimate the "Agenda Setting Theory" in media - its quite important for such movement that is predominantly online...
3 • 100% Open? (by fossala on 2013-01-14 10:35:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
I just tried to email HazeOS regarding how free their distrobution is. It seems like there online "contact us" section is broken. They say "It's completely free and open-source." Is this 100% free and open including the libre kernel?
4 • Re: 100% open, Haze OS (by sneeky on 2013-01-14 11:51:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
the contact section of the haze website has not been working for me either, and plus the d/l is hosted by 4share which needs you to sign up to there service, which i will not be doing.he really needs to find a different upload service.
as for 100% free i think he means as in beer.
5 • Qt5 (by elcaset on 2013-01-14 12:43:13 GMT from United States)
at #2, cflow.: I, too am really looking forward to Qt5. It looks quite promising.
6 • Seriously? (by BobbyQuine on 2013-01-14 13:38:04 GMT from United States)
"America's top-selling laptop... the Samsung Chromebook"
7 • Manjaro 0.8.3 bootup issues (by Philip Müller on 2013-01-14 14:25:21 GMT from Germany)
Hi Jesse,
Your bootup-issue might be due glibc 2.17 update in i686 architecture.This is a known issue and is fixed with todays Update: http://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=1528.0
Other than that I'm glad you revisited our young project. Currently we are working on our GUI-Installer. Also we release Manjaro-Openbox later this afternoon. It includes all fixes of today.
8 • Ubuntu Phone (by CSRedRat on 2013-01-14 14:37:21 GMT from Russia)
Where news about Ubuntu Phone, Ubuntu for Android, Ubuntu TV, Wayland in Ubuntu 13.04 and other?
9 • Manjaro update problem (by Donnie on 2013-01-14 14:40:42 GMT from United States)
@Jesse--The update problem that you encountered is quite common with Arch and Arch-based distros. Arch is supposed to be a rolling-release distro, but in reality, you'll end up having to periodically do a clean install whenever an update trashes the system.
Sometimes you can fix the problem by tweaking the grub configuration file, and sometimes you can't.
I've found that running Slackware on the "current" repository provides a much more stable and trouble-free rolling-release type distro.
10 • @3 @4 (by Plutonius on 2013-01-14 15:37:25 GMT from Brazil)
Free beer strikes again. I downloaded it and used in virtualbox. They installed Google Chrome, Skype, TeamViewer, Adobe Air by default and generic kernel. Not freedom compliant by any means.
11 • @8, Ubermix (by Arkanabar on 2013-01-14 15:51:53 GMT from United States)
the story was a RETROspective. The ones you're talking about are PROspective.
As for Ubermix, it looks like a superior classroom solution, compared to Edubuntu. But part of the reason for its success is no doubt the extensive teacher training & development that was done prior to deployment.
12 • Installers... Manjaro (by hughetorrance on 2013-01-14 16:13:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
I find the text type installer easier to use than some GUI installers,I found the Slackware installer easy because I had been playing around with the BSD,s,I also like to do the partitioning separately with gparted,the answer is to do things the way you find easier.
13 • Re: 9 • Manjaro update problem (by Anon on 2013-01-14 16:23:48 GMT from Norway)
Donne wrote: "(...) in reality, you'll end up having to periodically do a clean install whenever an update trashes the system."
Well, maybe you do, but I installed Arch in April 2008 and have yet to be forced to reinstall. A couple times during the first two years I needed to chroot into the system and downgrade the kernel for a short while, that's all. In the meantime I have changed the motherboard and moved the OS to a SSD, but Arch has stayed the same, er... has been changing all the time, needing manual intervention to adjust config files only now and then. Even changing to systemd was a breeze.
For me, as I like to see what's new asap, Arch feels perfect. Should I want a system that I could set and forget, I might choose Slackware. Or I might just stop upgrading Arch - and still be ahead... ;)
14 • @6 (by Josh on 2013-01-14 16:33:38 GMT from United States)
Note that it says "Amazon's" instead of "America's" best-selling laptop ;)
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Laptop/zgbs/pc/565108
15 • Re: 9 • You must be kidding (by Pera on 2013-01-14 16:45:34 GMT from Serbia)
Are you serious man? Has to reinstall system? I installed Arch in Decembre 2008,and it works flawlessly till now. Just read news section when is some major upgrade,and don't worry.
16 • Comparing apples and oranges (by vw72 on 2013-01-14 16:59:26 GMT from United States)
This topic comes up all the time and I hate to rehash it, but when comparing Ubuntu to Linux Mint in terms of downloads or disk shipments, it seems that Ubuntu should include it's official spins (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Gubuntu) in the total. All of these share the same core distribution with a different desktop/application set.
Mint, like Fedora, Suse and the others are not broken out by which desktop they are running and while it may be nice for the developers of the various *buntu spins, they are, still all Ubuntu.
For instance, including all of the official *buntus in the with Ubuntu in the OSDisc stats would increase the Ubuntu stats by 3.6%, or put differently the other Ubuntu spins taken together are ranked right after Debian (which isn't too shabby for bastard step-children).
The fact that Ubuntu assigns specific names to their spins doesn't change that they are spins. The *buntu spins have restrictions on what they can put into their packages based on how it impacts Ubuntu, not the other way around. That would seem to imply they are not independent distributions (there are no Xubuntu repositories, Xubuntu and the other *buntus use the Ubuntu repositories). Likewise, if Ubuntu makes a directional change, say going wayland, then the others must follow. This is how it works with the other distros (Fedora, Mint, OpenSuse, etc.), too.
We treat the other distro's like brands (Ford, Chevy, Toyota), but for some reason, Ubuntu get's broken out into individual models. When trying to do any type of meaningful comparison, it would be helpful if all of the distros were treated the same way.
There is no doubt that Mint is a very successful distribution that meets the needs of many users. This post is not about that. What it is about is treating all of the distros on Distrowatch the same way.
17 • Other pears and pineapples (by dbrion on 2013-01-14 17:27:53 GMT from France)
Fedora and Mageia do not cut themselves into kde, Xfce, edu... editions:
Fedora electronic lab http://spins.fedoraproject.org/fel/ is not seen as independant - though some of its packages cannot be found in Fedora repos, IIRC.
If one adds the UBUlinux variants, their percentage slightly increased between 2011 -19.03%- and 2012 19.96%
There are some other "issues " in the statistics of CD /DVD sales :
* Centos and Scientific can be considered, once installed , as the same... (as the percentage of their sales increased for both of them, and as SL is somewhat small, this does not , in 2011 2012, have consequences in interpretation.)
* If one adds TRK, SRC and PM, they have a very high percentage (8.1 in 2011, 8.5 in 2012) and a very high rank -above Fedora's one-
* Mandriva was not replaced by Mageia (their percentage halved) - IMO, Mageia has less packages, (hard to compile ones) than Mandriva had -ex : scilab : maybe it is the consequence of a choice of packaging only what they could, with less developpers...
It would be interesting to know whether OSdisks ships more 32 bits than 64 bits or not... (is their audience old computers or newer ones -some of them do not have a CD/DVD reader!)
18 • Comparing Apples and Oranges!? (by Vishwanath on 2013-01-14 17:49:42 GMT from India)
#16 Then a better process would be to consider the distro-lineage; e.g. count Ubuntu itself as Debian; count Mint as Ubuntu etc. This way we would also believe that FLOSS is about We against them.
I often see comparisons like Ubuntu Vs. Debian. How do people forget that there is no Ubuntu without Debian. May be even true that I like my buntu because there is Debain behind the buntu.
Incorporating this idea let some do the math again!
19 • Ubermix (by octathlon on 2013-01-14 17:52:44 GMT from United States)
Ubermix looks like a very useful distro, not just for education settings but I can think of other scenarios where this approach would work well. I will test this out on my Eee netbook.
20 • Marrying horses and mules Re 18 (by dbrion on 2013-01-14 18:06:27 GMT from France)
Well, if I download and install a Fedora electronic lab, and after thet, use Fedora's repos to add , say, lyx and abiword (they have no text processing, and it is very annoying sometimes), nothing will break and I got two text processors....
What will happen if you download and install an UBU variant, end then, use the debian repo for complex software -a web browser, a text processor- ?
What will happen if you download and install LUBU and decide you prefer having gnome and use an UBU repo?
21 • re: arch and rolling release updates.. (by brad on 2013-01-14 18:26:57 GMT from United States)
I found a GREAT rule of thumb for Arch is to , when it asks to replace a set of files.. either keep'em all or replace'em all (of course after reading whatever tidbit of info on the main page)...
But God Forbid you bork your system and ask for help(when you don't understand or the wiki doesn't seem to answer the current problem you have, as you can figure out how to describe it).. then you get RTFM, it's in the wiki.. or they copy and paste some excerpt from the wiki about being a "help vampire" or that "you may have to get your hands dirty" or worse.. "arch isn't for you, go back to x,y,z distro"..
Arch>than it's userbase
Manjaro is the way to go..
22 • re: arch and rolling release updates.. (by brad on 2013-01-14 18:27:26 GMT from United States)
I found a GREAT rule of thumb for Arch is to , when it asks to replace a set of files.. either keep'em all or replace'em all (of course after reading whatever tidbit of info on the main page)...
But God Forbid you bork your system and ask for help(when you don't understand or the wiki doesn't seem to answer the current problem you have, as you can figure out how to describe it).. then you get RTFM, it's in the wiki.. or they copy and paste some excerpt from the wiki about being a "help vampire" or that "you may have to get your hands dirty" or worse.. "arch isn't for you, go back to x,y,z distro"..
23 • Apples and oranges, but not lineage (by vw72 on 2013-01-14 18:39:30 GMT from United States)
Using lineage doesn't make sense. Debian has no say over what Ubuntu does. Ubuntu does have a very strong say over what Xubuntu does. On the other hand, Ubuntu has little or no say over what Mint does.
There are true derivatives of Ubuntu that stand on their own, Mint being a prime example. But the "official" Ubuntu derivatives are really no more than the core Ubuntu with *buntu-desktop installed.
Canonical dictates what goes on in Ubuntu and therefore in all of the official derivatives. Even the recent Gnome-buntu (or whatever it is called) has the goal of providing Ubuntu with a gnome-shell desktop. How is that different than Fedora's KDE? Isn't that team trying to provide Fedora, but with the KDE desktop?
If the core of a distribution is to provide the parent distribution but with some superficial change (different desktop, pre-installed codecs, etc), is it truly a different distribution? Particularly if it is using the parent distribution's repositories, kernel, etc.? And if it isn't different, then why break out the Ubuntu equivalents separately?
Here's another reason why it is problematic. From the statistics in the article, it appears that Ubuntu has lost a lot of ground since last year and the implication is that they lost it to Mint. However, by including the official derivatives (like all the other distros do), Ubuntu has actually increased since last year. So, while, Mint has soared, it evidently is gaining most of its market from outside the Ubuntu family of distros.
Looking at the statistics, as presented, leads to one conclusion, looking at them combined, leads to a very different conclusion. Which is correct? Well, looking at the number of dead distributions listed in distrowatch, coupled with the activity on various sites about both Ubuntu and Mint, it would appear that much of Mint's growth, but not all, has come from other than Ubuntu. Or, if it has come from Ubuntu, it has been more than offset by new Ubuntu users (which could mean that Canonical was on target for Unity).
Anyway, my point being, by treating each desktop version of Ubuntu as a totally independent distro while not doing the same for other distros means that casual comparisons can be misleading. Yes, I know, that all of those *buntus want to be viewed as their own independent distros. But one has to ask, even if they have their own governing board, if Ubuntu can trump their decisions, are they really an independent distro (could Gnomebuntu really ship the new Gnome-Files if they wanted to do so)?
24 • Comparing Apples and Oranges! (by jeffersonian@noemail.net on 2013-01-14 19:23:15 GMT from United States)
Comparing Apples and Oranges!
Linux is originally, and still today about the OS kernel, and its drivers, etc...
Fedora like Suse are Red-Hat derivative, not Debian, there are significant differences.
Read-Hat derivative is still the place where lots of Linux Kernel work is being done: the heavy weight lifter. Just try to compile the Linux kernel with Ubuntu or Mint: most utilities do not really work out of the box.
And yes, Ubuntu as well as Mint have done a very nice service by packaging a distro which is relatively (To Red-Hat derivatives) easy to install, and easy to use. This is good, I just wish they did not break the basic Linux tools.
For me I wish I could have the solidness, the latest packages that Fedora provides, with the ease of use of Ubuntu derivatives (like Mint). Ubuntu repositories are often very outdated.
I also wish that every Linux distro would be more multi-boot friendly, because frankly none really is ! If you disagree with this statement, just try to install for example Windows, Mint, and Fedora on the same system. This is indeed possible but still requires lots of manual geek's work !
Most distro want to reformat most partitions, else the install fails, and for /home and /boot this is just silly.
The kernel files (on /boot) should indicate their origin, this is very simple to do....
The promises of GRUB 2 have not yet been fully kept, and that may be due to GRUB's excessive complexity for the task.
I still wish to have a standard Linux Install, the same for all distros, giving the user the option to call "gparted" (An almost perfect example of simplicity and functionality) for partitioning.
Same for the desktop, and here, razor-qt seems quite promising.
---
25 • Comparing apples and oranges (by rop on 2013-01-14 19:23:57 GMT from Spain)
I have always find it funny that so many people take the distrowatch stats so seriously.
Linux MInt is a great and user/newbie friendly distro, and more and more users are joining the Linux MInt community and installing the green distro in their PCs (by the way te Linux MInt forums are really great for newbies with lots of helpful people willing to assist the newbies). But the reason why Linux Mint is number one in Distrowatch is because the default browser in Linux Mint is Firefox, and one of the default bookmarks in the LInux Mint's Firefox is Distrowatch. So most of the Linux Mint users are familiar with Distrowatch (in fact I first met this web when I first installed LM, and I had been using Ubuntu for two years and never heard of Distrowatch)
Ubuntu has never included Distroatch as a default bookmark, and so there are many Ubuntu users that don't even know that Distrowatch exists.
If you see the Alexia or the WOT stats you will see that Ubuntu and even Debian are much more popular than Linuxmint
26 • Favorite Programs (by Ron on 2013-01-14 19:25:09 GMT from United States)
I think a couple might not be open source. I am too lazy to check right now.
In no special order;
These four are used very often.
*Rakarrack (Guitar software amp, also works great with keyboards.)
*Jack (Audio connection kit)
*Audacity (Audio editor)
*Guitarx (Guitar software amp)
----------
*Kamoso (KDE Webcam)
*Openshot (Video Editor)
*Makehuman (3D character design)
*Blender (Modeller)
*Gimp (Image editing)
*Cherrytree (A Hierarchical Note Taking Application)
*Truecrypt (Encryption)
*Geany (light dev environement)
*VLC (media player)
*Yakuake (Drop down terminal)
There are other programs of course, including these, I really love. But these are used the most often.
27 • Fuduntu (by Hollandhook on 2013-01-14 20:26:35 GMT from Mexico)
Nice. I can't seem to get Focuswriter installed and getting fonts to look decent is proving a tough job, because the settings aren't sticking. Otherwise, I'm finding my way around okay and everything's steady. It's the first Gnome 2 distro I've liked enough to want to keep around. Thanks.
28 • Able2extract (by Johannes on 2013-01-14 20:40:03 GMT from Germany)
That's what I call a review! Thank you for pointing out this piece of software, which I needed badly. A pity there is no reliable free software equivalent... Cheers,
Johannes
29 • Manjaro (by Philip Müller on 2013-01-14 21:34:06 GMT from Germany)
I did a remote-update session on one of my customers PCs. From my side it seemed to be fine and I asked her to reboot her system. After a while I got a call-back that something don't work and she wasn't able to boot her system anymore. So I've to visit her tomorrow and see what went wrong.
Sometimes you hit rare issues you might have missed. We are trying to test Arch-Stable a little longer and push those updates as update-packs with documentation weekly instead of daily, but sometimes some bugs are slipping thru due bad timing.
Which makes it even harder are Update-Notifier like kalu, yapan and co. Some even try to update their systems every hour. It might be an update-addiction or some sort of.
It is aways good to have a working install-media you can use to fix issues thru updates.
Read the documentation and never force the update cames in mind ...
Monthly released install-medias are common to keep up with the package-changes.
Sometimes it is hard to simplify a beast ;)
30 • @25 • Comparing apples and oranges (by greg on 2013-01-15 09:40:30 GMT from Slovenia)
That doesn't even make sense. so you are saying that because you have firefox on linux mint wiht a bookmark to distrowatch you would visit this site and read about what Mint is? and Mint reviews? because that's what these starts are showing mostly. how many times someone read a page.
and the previous poster is correct Kubuntu, Xubuntu etc. are not separate distributions since cannonical has plenty of say into what stuff is added.
oh and i haven't tried this myself but i believe CentOS and Scientific are not one and the same. as it was proven in one install comparison. additionally as i remember at the time i read how centos hasn't got their patch while scientific linux already made them.
31 • @24 (by Mac on 2013-01-15 11:28:55 GMT from United States)
I have xp, kubuntu 12.04, mepis, kubuntu 12.10, and aptosid with no problem. Have had mint in the mix in the past. Just watch the install, suse you have to look at every page, fedora 17 works been a while but it was in there. Kubuntu is real easy. Have fun Mack
32 • @29 Manjaro as a desktop system? (by django on 2013-01-15 11:41:17 GMT from Netherlands)
Philip,
why have you decided to use Manjaro for a not so tech savvy user as described in your posting here? I'm curious as to how these decisions are made.
33 • Apple, oranges, pineapples, strawberries, horses , mules and ntfs. RE 30 (by dbrion on 2013-01-15 11:56:13 GMT from France)
"as i remember at the time i read how centos hasn't got their patch while scientific linux already made them."
Well, as both clone RH independently, it may happen that one is newer than the other. The Big Patch Issue with Centos happened (a patch was one month late, and upset the fora) , IIRC, before 2010; as there was no other one, some people somehow remembered it...:
I doubt it has consequences now and that many people draw conclusion w/r Centos to-days performances .
"CentOS and Scientific are not one and the same. as it was proven in one install comparison. "
Do **install** comparisons "prove" anything? People who **use** Centos or Scientific (or both, as I did) do not like to install (they can, with great sufferings, as their favorite hobby is not distro(s)hopping). Having them suffering for 10 minutes instead of 14 is a very short lapse of time w/r the intended life of stable distributions.
From an user point of view, they are the same (unless one wants to mount ntfs external disk(s) , but it is not a GNUlinux distribution issue: it is the only difference I saw when using).
34 • @31 (by Mac on 2013-01-15 12:50:06 GMT from United States)
They also work with Win 7.
Have fun Mack
35 • @33 (by greg on 2013-01-15 13:51:37 GMT from Slovenia)
well they are compiled from same source. like i said i only know what i read. i do not use them. i read reviews linked to from this site. i read them because i still plan (when i have a bit more money) to set up my own server and i am interested in RHEL based distros and debain as both are stable and good for such mashcines. also my first brush with linux was red hat.
i know that for example debian and ubuntu are similar but there are differences. the problem with these distros is they keep moving things arround or sometimes ubuntu adds some commands. for example init command for ssh from 10.04 and i imagine also in Debian failed for some reason but service restart worked well.
but many distros are same under the hood (very similar to eachother), and maybe have only a few subtle differences that make them "different".
36 • CentOS/Scientific Linux/Springdale Linux (by Caitlyn Martin on 2013-01-15 15:12:24 GMT from United States)
dbrion is half right :) CentOS did have an issue over roughly a two year period where they were frequently and chronically late with patches, sometimes as much as two months late with critical security patches. LWN covered it heavily, I wrote an article for O'Reilly, and Ladislav highlighted yet more articles in the DWW news section. However, that ended when CentOS went to the Continuous Release (CR) repository. Over the past year and a half CentOS has actually been the fastest on average of the three major Red Hat clones in terms of delivering patches. The developers really and truly have solved that problem. (Reminder to self: write follow-up article as promised to the CentOS developers and community.)
At their core, CentOS, Scientific Linux, and Springdale Linux (formerly PUIAS Linux) are all compiled from the same Red Hat srpms with only the branding/trademarks removed. To that extent they are the same. They differ in the extra packages they offer, the various installation configurations they offer (i.e.: Scientific Linux offers a light version with an IceWM desktop) and they all have separate repositotories.
37 • Horses and mules (by dbrion on 2013-01-15 15:25:35 GMT from France)
Even the choice of packages can make two computers, having the same distribution, different ... and the differences might be not that subtle.
Dogs can be different between others (just have a look at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Big_and_little_dog.jpg/220px-Big_and_little_dog.jpg ) , but can be interfertile... (but try to marry an he dog and a she bear)...
I am sure SL repos and Centos ones (or common ones) can be shared ,though it is not seen as a good practice...with less issues than would occur if, say, a Debian user wanted to use UBU linux binaries....
Adding together sales figures of Scientific and Centos would not be utterly stupid (and this is why, in post 17, I noticed it -and noticed it would have no consequences in interpretation as both distributions slightly increased).
They have the same important packages, have the same audience (people interested in RH, but not willing to spend a lot of money without testing....
Adding together xUBU would make sense (the same sense as ignoring Fedora's has many desktops and remains unique, or Mandriva could offer a menu to choose, just after booting, which desktop to use in 2008 -making the nature of desktops pointless in distributions separation) ...,
38 • #37: Combined numbers (by Caitlyn Martin on 2013-01-15 16:22:20 GMT from United States)
I don't think combining page hit rankings (I assume that's what you mean by "sales numbers") for CentOS, Scientific Linux, Springdale Linux and Stella would be fair at all. They all have separate development teams and different goals. The first three have their own repositories. They all have their own forums and their own communities. By any reasonable standard that qualifies them as different distributions.
Yes, under the hood the code is essentially the same. From an end user perspective they aren't the same at all. Stella really is just a respin of CentOS but the focus is squarely on the desktop. A lot of people seem to find it difficult to turn CentOS into a desktop oriented distro. Stella does that for them. Similarly, if someone has older, legacy equipment then Scientific Linux with IceWM is a lot easier to get going than the other three. There are similar issues for server deployments as well largely due to differences in the extra packages.
39 • Combining numbers (by dbrion on 2013-01-15 17:09:45 GMT from France)
Well, I did not want to combine
* page hit rankings (nobody knows they are there because people are curious about a distribution or because they looove their favorite one; anyways, it is there everyday, and, if someone was able to analyse these PHRs in a convincing way, one would have known it), but
* this weeks OSdisks.com's sales evolution between 2011 and 2012 (sale numbers are more than curiosity or love, as people are ready to pay...).
I (and my collegues) use CentOS at work, as a desktop, without any issues... Our boss buies RH for servers.... (I suppose that, if we were dissatisfied with Centoses, he mignt be more reluctant to buy RH) I used Scientific for ease of mounting ntfs partitions, compatibility with my work and because their live DVD had almost everything I needed -so , I did not need to compile it- and found out it was almost the same thing ... For a browser, a text processor (this is 95 % of what people need at Internet Cafes -exception : Skype or other speech software and games- and at work -besides specialized software, in this latter case-), there are no differences....
When CentOS had difficulties in 2010, people had the idea of using SL . This indicates they are very near .... Vicinity/neighborhood does not mean they are the same, I am aware of it.
But two Centoses, given to two people with different tastes, might be much more different than a Centos differs from a SL...
Combining numbers would have made a 25 lines table easier to read; in the case of Centos+SL, there would have been no errors of interpretation (if combining was an error) , as *both* increased between 2011 and 2012. I already noticed that, as I am aware it is somewhat controversial -but the consequences in interpretation are not (interpretation is just made easier) -
May be I am very unfair with people supporting Centos, but, in 4 years, noone of my colleagues and I needed help and support from their fora (I learnt things from them, but it was not failures related, it was out of curiosity) . This explains I cannot understand, at least spontaneously, that a communauty is part of a distribution.
But SL having an IceWM does not make two distibutions out of SL... Why are {a,b,X,L,,K, ...z} UBUs seen as different distributions, with the same criteria than for SL?
40 • HazeOS (by votre on 2013-01-15 17:45:02 GMT from United States)
Once again a new distro is making the false claim about invulnerability.
From the HazeOS website:
"Since Haze OS is based on Linux, There is no question of Viruses here. Install Haze and stop worrying about Anti Viruses."
Statements like that drives me insane.
It is factually incorrect and potentially misleading. Although the risk of malware is significantly lessened running Linux, it hasn't been eliminated - nor should the potential for such risk be completely ignored. Especially by a distro catering to people who just want to "load it up and go."
41 • @17 (by David on 2013-01-15 19:14:14 GMT from United States)
This is the second time I've seen you complain about Mageia not having a scilab package, but it does have it! Also, yes Mageia has less packages than Mandriva, but Mandriva has tons of old unmaintained packages, many of which do not compile or work anymore. Even they have been cleaning some of these out and continue to do so. As for Mageia, the packages that have been imported have been the ones that people have actually been interested in. Someone needs to maintain all of those packages. If there are any other specific packages you feel are missing that you are interested in, you can request them in the bugzilla.
42 • RE 41 (by dbrion on 2013-01-15 20:16:00 GMT from France)
Well, I messed up scilab missing in Mageia with it missing in Fedora (at least in 2011- they have fixed it, some of my colleagues like scilab but I have no time using everything and do not complain). Maybe it was my being stupid and too much distro(s)hopping and adding things.... I was not unhappy with Mageia 1...
I confirm I use Fedora now -and I tried Mageia2 for a brief time, but cannot try all the versions (normally, I used Fedora after I had developped on Mandriva,/Mageia 1 as I prefered Mandriva)...
Now I am afraid I have *too many** packages (qemu-arm, qemu-x86, {avr,msp430,x86,arm}-{gcc,size,nm}, msp-debug) which may seem very exotic (not the x86 ones) and I can manage to download from upstream and compile -if a distributor supports them, I am very happy; else, I manage- plus the classical ones (bash,vim, make, text processor, browser, {pdf,png,any}viewer) . I never will ask a distributor to add them....
43 • Fedora 18 (by Woody Oaks on 2013-01-15 21:35:08 GMT from United States)
Does anyone know how to circumvent the installer's automatic partition selector which, on my system, seems to want to consume either my entire hard drive or some tiny portion of it which that installer deems to be too small for use. I have installed various Linux systems for ten years now and have always found every installer I encountered to be goofy in some way, but this one seems to be the dumbest by far.
44 • @43 (by Mac on 2013-01-16 01:19:47 GMT from United States)
I have the same problem it wants /dev/sda2 and I want /dev/sda3 this is the first one I have not been able to past in about 5yrs. Any help would be a big thank you.
Have fun Mack
45 • #43 Fedora install (by Chris H on 2013-01-16 01:28:02 GMT from United States)
"If you don't know what to do, do what you can do". That's what my Steam Engineering instructor at the USMMA used to say.
Select your disk.
Click 'Continue', lower right corner.
Set your time zone.
For 'Partition Scheme Configuration', deselect 'LVM' select 'Standard Partition".
Click 'I don't need help...'
Continue to next screen.
A lot of 'Unknown Linux Partition' s are shown.
Click the + next to each one until you see where you want to install.
Select it. Configure it.
Add mount point /.
Select 'reformat'
A lot of orange triangles will indicate things to be done.
Go to next screen, Start Install.
Do a yum update immediately after the install.
Beware /etc/adjtime might have UTC instead of LOCAL.
Watch your time after you reboot
Chris H
46 • Re 45 (by Woody Oaks on 2013-01-16 03:31:22 GMT from United States)
Thank you, Chris. I had performed some or perhaps even all of those actions before, but had not waited long enough for the system to acquiesce. The installation is now proceeding (on another machine) into some sort of blank-screen-phase. I have installed and used various Linux systems since the days of Red Hat 7, but I have never encountered such a scatterbrained mess as this one. And let me add that Fedora 17 has become progressively less usable over the past months with boot-times grown excessively long and even hanging in a loop ever more frequently. The weekly (at least) kernel updates are nuisances which lead me to suspect that the distribution itself has developed some fundamental problems.
47 • Fedora's NEW installer (by RollMeAway on 2013-01-16 06:24:12 GMT from United States)
BEWARE it will install grub2 to your MBR without mention or warning.
I had a tough time understanding the new installer, so paid very close attention to every detail.
I naively expected some interaction with the installer, about the boot loader, after the system was copied to the partition.
NEVER happened. Just said reboot your system.
It wiped the extended partition table as well.
Way to go Fedora! Throw out that old, well seasoned installer that worked so well.
Give us a smart installer that knows whats best for us. No questions asked.
We needed something else to bitch about.
48 • Fedora 18 (by Dave Postles on 2013-01-16 08:44:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I don't like the installer or the package manager (YumExtender or whatever it's called). YumExtender is a reason to revert to the CLI. I was quite happy with Fedora 17 XFCE, but I've temporarily given up on Fedora. I'll see what 19 is like later in the year.
Viruses: I always install clamtk - don't want to pass along junk to others.
49 • midori - the little browser that can? (by gnomic on 2013-01-16 11:14:17 GMT from New Zealand)
Anybody with opinions to offer on how Midori functions on the www these days? I was going to do a grumpy old man as to why sundry distros are including Midori instead of a 'real' browser even on DVD editions, but was pleasantly surprised in recent use when 0.4.7 stayed up for some hours of browsing instead of terminating abnormally inside 30 minutes as often happened in previous versions in my experience.
50 • Re 47: (by Woody Oaks on 2013-01-16 19:06:51 GMT from United States)
Is there a way to avoid that? I hate Grub2 and certainly don't want it infecting my MBR. For that matter, is there a way to install Legacy Grub on Fedora now that it has been so greatly improved? Re 47: Is it now illegal to use command line Yum with Fedora? Is that now impossible as well?
51 • Arch Linux (@ #9, #13, #15, #21) (by Pierre on 2013-01-16 19:10:26 GMT from Germany)
As I told often in the last few posts here at the comments to the DWWs I am changing distros quite frequently and only stopped for openSUSE 12.2 on my workstation PC last year. I won't change that in the near future because it runs fast and stable since I installed and set it up.
On my laptop I have replaced openSUSE 12.2 with Arch recently. I am quite happy with it as I always had been for quite some time after installing it.
To avoid misunderstandings: before I do updates I always - even in the past - checked for announcements on the Arch Linux homepage. Nevertheless after a few months of using Arch Linux I always - as experienced by other too - ended up with errors which were more or less fixable. Sometimes I had no time or wasn't willing to once again fix my OS because an update messed it up.
I know, as common to the Arch Linux community I would become some comment like "Then boy move on, Arch isn't made for you if that turns you away from using it.".
Seriously, I understand that a rolling release distro needs some user intervention before an update. That's ok for me and I am not afraid of the command line as well.
But: I simple don't want end up with errors frequently that need to be fixed. That is very time consuming and the rolling release model's one big advantage should be, that it does not take time for re-installing and re-configuring each 6 to 12 months.
Honestly, it takes me less time to re-install openSUSE each 8 to 9 months, copy over my i3 (and apps related) config files and re-install my frequently used apps instead of tinkering around on errors every few weeks / months because some update messed up my system.
Considering this I find misleading that on the Wiki they say something like "It just needs to frequently do pacman -Syu to stay up to date."
In fact it needs a lot more than that beforehand and sometimes even afterwards. Just a thought I had when installing Arch lately.
But I am still using Arch, yes, I really like it and therefore am giving it tries from time to time again. But until now I always turned away in the end because of a messed up system.
Let's see if it will be different this time. :-)
Greetings from Germany.
Pierre
52 • Adam Williamson (by Chris H on 2013-01-16 19:35:55 GMT from United States)
Where's Adam Williamson?
Does he still work for Fedora/Red Hat?
He could probably best answer Fedora 18 questions.
Chris H.
53 • @47-new Fedora installer and GRUB (by Ralph on 2013-01-16 20:59:22 GMT from Canada)
The installer on the generic NON-live DVD has an option to not install grub to the MBR, but it is easy to miss because the whole process is not structured very clearly. After you click on "target of installation" (I forget the exact wording), pictures of your hard drives show up, and you can click on the drive you want to install to. At the same time, in tiny blue print at the bottom left of the screen there is an option for further configuration. When you click on it you get a window that tells you the disc you selected will be the boot disc. I inferred from this that the bootloader would be installed to the MBA of that (selected) hard drive, so I highlighted the disc in the window and unchecked the boot loader. It sounds like GRUB will now not be installed at all, but I guess it gets installed to the root partition instead, as I was able to boot into it (after install) from the GRUB of my default boot distro (after running update-grub). (Further tinkering allows one to install to any partition the hard drive.) Anyways, everything went relatively smoothly, though I admit the new installer is not exactly a gem of perspicuity.
54 • new Fedora installer (ref. 53) (by RollMeAway on 2013-01-17 03:15:10 GMT from United States)
My disastrous fedora install used "Fedora-18-i686-live-kde" DVD, dated 01/09/2013.
It is possible something like you describe, exists on the live installer as well, although,
I did explore ALL "little blue texts", buttons, options, etc.
I will NOT be using it again to find out.
55 • @54 (by Mac on 2013-01-17 14:47:01 GMT from United States)
That is also the way I look at Fedora too. Not fast enough to download the dvd so will wait on opensuse. Most of the time here is between the keyboard and chair, but that new installer is not for me. Have fun Mack
56 • @26 multiboot friendliness (by Tom on 2013-01-17 15:52:05 GMT from United States)
" also wish that every Linux distro would be more multi-boot friendly, because frankly none really is ! If you disagree with this statement, just try to install for example Windows, Mint, and Fedora on the same system. This is indeed possible but still requires lots of manual geek's work !
Most distro want to reformat most partitions, else the install fails, and for /home and /boot this is just silly."
Have you tried recently? I had a Win7 box and Installed Kubuntu 11 on it. It automatically set up the dual boot (I actually didn't want this. I wanted to run Windows in my virtualbox but this will do). I just added Fedora 18 and now can triple boot without having done anything.
57 • Multiboot friendly +1 (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-01-17 16:45:24 GMT from United States)
I prefer to test a new distro by multibooting live from flash, without wasting drive storage space or burning plastic discs. "Works well with others" is a plus on a resumé.
The Puppy Linux community of developers offers a variety of bootloaders and install options - frugal or full, partition or MBR, Grub4dOS or Grub2 (or LiLo?), based on your choice of several distros. Clearly it's doable.
Microsoft doesn't think Windows needs to get along with others. Many distros share this arrogant laziness. [See also: Grub2Win project at SourceForge]
58 • multibootusb - a project at sourceforge (by Fairly Reticent on 2013-01-19 00:32:28 GMT from United States)
This may have a long way to go to catch up to PenDriveLinux's YUMI but it's a start.
59 • openSUSE - CRUX (by Landor on 2013-01-19 07:49:44 GMT from Canada)
openSUSE seems to be having problems with their torrents, at least for the KDE 32 and 64bit versions. I rarely look at openSUSE at all for a multitude of legitimate reasons, and now they don't even have the torrents setup right. For a community that relies on goodwill more than most, I have no idea why torrents are barely given a second thought.
I'm very happy to see CRUX hit the 3.0 release, and it being 64bit! It's really nice to know there's bastions of sanity still left in this community where real users can turn to. Knowing they won't have to hear from the click-click kiddie-distribution install crowd complain about installers, codecs not present, making it so easy they don't have to pay attention and no longer worrying about knowing they're the reason their mbr or data gets overwritten every time they 'play' with a new distribution.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
60 • Fedora 18 (by Colin on 2013-01-19 10:09:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is it me or have they made the installer more complicated than it needs to be? Prefered the old installer myself.
61 • Nexus 7 / Android weirdness running Mint 14 MATE... (by Kevin Scribner on 2013-01-20 00:04:31 GMT from United States)
hey there, DW people --
this is an extension of a request for help i'd made here some weeks ago...
background: i have an emachines M250 netbook which i finally wiped Windows 7 Starter Edition off of and installed Mint 14 MATE... it's been all peaches and cream with one minor exception: i have a Google Nexus 7 Android tablet [Asus, really], the 8GB model [since discontinued], and when i plugged it into the netbook via USB, absolutely nothing happened... so, i posted my issue here, and several fine folk came to the rescue with excellent advice... which, sadly, did not solve the problem, but at least i had directions to look in...
at the end of the day, i was able to set the Nexus to be read as a camera, rather than a multimedia / storage device, and i could access the two ["DCIM" & "Pictures"] follders in which pictures are stored therein, but no other folders were visible... heartened by partial success, i kept plugging away at it, researching the issue on the web...
so, today, i tried the methodologies described on the following pages, in the following order:
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/888
http://blog.mpshouse.com/?p=609
http://blog.jeshurun.ca/technology/connecting-the-google-nexus-7-to-ubuntu-mint-over-usb
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1185
now, the last one seems to have worked... when i plug the nexus in and then open a terminal and type in "go-mtpfs /media/MyAndroid" [minus the quotes, of course], i get a MyAndroid icon on the desktop which i can explore and use like any other device -- success...!!!
sort of...
point the first: i HAVE TO keep that terminal window open until i later unmount the device, or else all hell breaks loose... not such a high price to pay, though...
but here's the real problem... after following the 4th set of instructions, those steps somehow interacted with one of the other sets of instructions, because now when i plug in the Nexus, a "Nexus7" icon appears... i can explore it, with limited success, but i cannot unmount it later... when i do [from the GUI], i get an error window stating:
"umount: /media/Nexus7 is not in the fstab (and you are not root)"
[minus the quotes...]
the nautilus window for that Nexus7 icon tends to freeze up a lot, and i don't know if i can safely just unplug the Nexus, so i've been shutting down the machine before unplugging...
interestingly, when i run the command lines indicated in that fourth tutorial, i get the MyAndroid icon, which operates much more effectively than the Nexus7 icon in Nautilus, right underneath the Nexus7 icon, and i unmount that by command line as per the instructions [i haven't scripted them, i just keep the instructions in a note on the desktop and enter them manually into a terminal window... the second terminal which i use to unmount the MyAndroid icon, makes the MyAndroid icon disappear and returns the first terminal window, which i used to mount it in the first place, to an active command line after yielding up some usage statistics...
i'm still a Linux n00b, only been plugging away at it for a few years, but i'd like to have a better understanding of what's going on here and what i can do about it, particularly about the Nexus7 icon... i don't mind that the interface where my Nexus 7 isn't so "perfect" as it may have been under Windows 7, so long as i'm able to get the job done without too terribly much foolishness and difficulty...
sorry i went on so long about it, but i wanted to provide as much information as possible to get better replies... any insights would be deeply appreciated...
thanks for reading, and thanks to the DW folks for getting so much great Linux and open-source information out there, and for providing a forum like this for n00bs like me to get answers and ideas and education...
peace --
-- khs
62 • Fedora 18 - syslog? (by gnomic on 2013-01-20 01:46:01 GMT from New Zealand)
Running Fedora 18 live DVD the other day I wanted to have a look at what syslog might have to say about a wee issue. Off to /var/log I went ... but no syslog to be seen. Has there been some technological advance I have missed, or ought I to have been the superuser rather than merely liveuser? It seems that syslog may be on the way out, but I thought not quite yet.
Number of Comments: 62
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