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1 • Fedora (by musty on 2012-12-03 10:05:16 GMT from France) |
Thank you for this new review.
Fedora is blocked only by the unfinished installer but the rest follows its evolution with normal updates like if version was released in November. So in January, Fedora 18 will be perfect in term of stability, even now I do not encounter any bug. perfect
2 • Distribution vs re-spin (by Alexandru on 2012-12-03 10:20:29 GMT from Romania)
The difference between notions of distribution and re-spin is not only subjective, but also very dynamic in time. The situation is similar to the difference between OS and OS family, or between language and dialect.
It was a time when there were Windows OS and Linux OS (among others). Novadays, Windows is considered an OS family and many of distros name themselves OSes. It is naturally because of growing number of their concretisations.
As of human language, similar question is whether American is a stand-alone language or a dialect of English one. It was borned as dialect, but become (or became) a language. The same way, but earlier, went Portuguese, Spanish, French, Romanian etc languages from Latin family.
3 • @5 Distribution vs re-spin (by Alexandru on 2012-12-03 10:27:37 GMT from Romania)
The botton line is that re-spins often tend to become distributions.
4 • Debian Stable (by Tux Raider on 2012-12-03 11:31:35 GMT from United States)
Debian Stable is what I run, one thing I hate is just after getting a distro installed is just a few months later there is a new release they want you to download and install. but Debian takes the time to pay attention to detail so not only am I not reinstalling a new release every few months when I do finally install a new release of Debian I know I can depend on it to be just like its namesake "Stable"
Kudos to Debian's developers
5 • @4 (by greg on 2012-12-03 11:48:34 GMT from Slovenia)
I think Ubuntu could do better if they were adding new features for 3 months and then spent 9 months only fixing bugs (not 2 or 3 months) - releasing once a year. that way short term support releases would be relatively stable.while LTS could get as solid as Debian on their release.
6 • Basic boot UI (by Somewhat Reticent on 2012-12-03 11:51:19 GMT from United States)
If I have basic issues while checking out a software collection, I look for info on starting "safe" or "basic". No finite compendium is likely to work for all hardware configurations. This is where boot parameters (aka cheatcodes) come in handy, and should be available for display and explanation during startup (aka boot). Like "F1 for Help" ...
7 • Manjaro (by mandog on 2012-12-03 12:12:51 GMT from Peru)
The full size of xfce is 1.2 gb I think you downloaded the net install or just the core it pays to visit the sites 1st and read the documentation. The GUI installer is experimental the CLI installer works fine. There are many happy users of manjaro so its a very easy distro to use.
8 • Manjaro 0.8.2 Review (by Carl Duff on 2012-12-03 12:33:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
You "reviewed" the Net-Edition of Manjaro, which as stated on our wiki (the 'about manjaro' article), does not come with a desktop environment, display manager, or software applications pre-installed. That is why you only booted into a login prompt. In addition, full instructions on how to build on the NET-edition are in fact provided on our wiki, too (the 'installation guides' section).
The manual is for beginners who have downloaded a Manjaro ISO with a pre-installed desktop environment. The names of the DEs are listed in the ISO names themselves.
9 • Re-Spin Distros (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 12:42:26 GMT from United States)
For me, the question of re-spin vs distro is just as explained above by Jesse. If a project has its own repos, it is a distro, period. It could survive if the parent dies. If it depends on its parent distribution's repositories entirely, it is only a re-spin.
That isn't to say that a re-spin doesn't have any value. Someone may find it useful to have their system configured exactly that way without any extra effort required after install. The best example I can think of is the choice of desktop environment to be installed, with all the default settings and such optimised for that particular desktop environment. That is the most common re-spin from most parent distros.
I also agree with Alexandru (Post #2) above about re-spins eventually becoming distros. But, that can only happen as they are able and willing to create their own repos, even if they are just a direct copy of the parent repos at first. Obviously, if the parent repos went down for any reason, if you don't have your own, you are NOT a distro any longer, no matter what you thought you were before.
10 • Debian (by dragonmouth on 2012-12-03 13:34:21 GMT from United States)
Debian may be conservative, stodgy or boring but when a release goes out in the wild, it has minimum of bugs. Ubuntu and other distros, in their releases, concentrate on new "features", eye-candy and glitz, rather than on eliminating bugs. They let the user community do most of their beta testing. Ubuntu releases every six months whether the product is really ready for prime time or not. I could understand such an emphasis on features, eye candy and glitz if they were developing games, not operating systems which have to be stable from the word go.
11 • *shakes head* @ Ubuntu (by John Dough on 2012-12-03 13:53:52 GMT from Canada)
Simple, release an old school PC GUI and a smartphone-ish monstrostiy GUI (ope, wait, they already do that).
"User research and user testing became a core plank in our approach to the design" - Yeah, who, fired MS workers?
Re: Debian, yep, snail crawl, but hey, a lot of distros would be nowhere without them, including Ubuntu based spins. They are kinda like a quiet, humble cuddly pet, always there, really hard to hate.
12 • Debian vs Ubuntu? Why? (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 14:12:53 GMT from United States)
Why contrast Ubuntu against Debian? Ubuntu is built off Debian. If Debian does so much work, why should Ubuntu have to duplicate the effort? Six months to transform a (semi-)stable Debian testing into a leading-edge distro is not so bad. Yes, there are bugs, some of which are inherited from the "testing" branch of Debian, and some are Ubuntu's own. But, overall, I think it's more stable compared to the practice of starting from scratch and building bleeding-edge distros which are also released in six months, as some others do.
"They let the user community do most of their beta testing. Ubuntu releases every six months whether the product is really ready for prime time or not." Didn't I read somewhere that "release early, release often" was a UNIX development philosophy? If so, then Canonical are doing EXACTLY as they should, according to you! So why complain? It's not like they're charging you hundreds of dollars for this "beta" software, as one particular proprietary OS company does.
As long as you know what Ubuntu claims to be, and use it for what it is, rather than for what it isn't, you will do well enough. If super-stable (aka boring) is what you're looking for, have at it! There are plenty of distros built for that, and Debian is a really good one, IMHO. But that doesn't mean that Ubuntu is in some way inferior for not taking that path. Different people with different usage patterns have different opinions about "stability" and different tolerances, or intolerances, as the case may be, for "instability". Thusly, we have hundreds of Linux distros to choose from, and each one is useful to somebody, if not you or me. I've said before, and I still believe, that ALL operating systems are a compromise. There is NO single, perfect OS, or distribution thereof. I choose to use linux in general, and Ubuntu in particular, because the things I need, or want, they have, and the things they don't have, I can live without. Others choose a different distro, or another OS, with different compromises, because it's the closest thing to what THEY need or want.
13 • @11 John Dough (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 14:32:34 GMT from United States)
That "smartphone-ish monstrostiy GUI" may not be for you. Please do neither use it, nor complain about it. There are dozens of alternatives, none of which I use, or complain about. What would be the point of doing so? Why do people feel compelled to "hate" everything? Isn't it enough to just "not use" something? Also, does nobody remember that the Unity Shell started life as the "Ubuntu netbook remix"? I remember when it first came out, I wanted to install it on all my laptops, because I believed it would make using them easier for me, and it did. People did like it and use it. My daughter loved it on her laptop back then, and I still like Unity today. I really don't like Gnome 3 Shell, therefore I don't use it. I've tried LXDE, XFCE, and others. I don't use them. But, I don't see any reason to go about insulting them or their users either. Please, everybody, stop insulting me and other Unity Shell and/or Gnome 3 Shell, and/or "whatever DE" users by your comments. No wonder people accuse the linux community of being rabid and insane! There are better ways to say "I don't like Software X, and I don't use it."
14 • Manjaro (by Jesse on 2012-12-03 14:38:27 GMT from Canada)
>> "Jesse, You "reviewed" the Net-Edition of Manjaro, which as stated on our wiki (the 'about manjaro' article), does not come with a desktop environment, display manager, or software applications pre-installed. That is why you only booted into a login prompt."
Glad you cleared that up. In the future I hope the Manjaro project will consider some changes to make this more apparent. For example, mentioning they have a net install edition on the About or page, notes indicating the default download isn't for Xfce, but for net-install, and labeling the net-install image to indicate what it is. Those details would have made for a better experience.
15 • Unity: why is 3D Mandatory (by Leo on 2012-12-03 14:40:53 GMT from United States)
I really like the direction Ubuntu is taking in many areas. For instance, presenting a light desktop, and trying to embed Ubuntu inside Android, so you can extend something that already gives you a gazillions apps.
But why on earth would they make Unity only run if 3D Compositing is available????
16 • @13 (DavidEF) (by John Dough on 2012-12-03 15:04:50 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (disrespectful).
17 • Manjaro (by User on 2012-12-03 15:07:44 GMT from Paraguay)
They seem to have fixed it by now, or you it was just your fault Jesse
18 • Manjaro (by Carl Duff on 2012-12-03 15:13:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
The Manjaro team and I are fine with criticism. It helps us to improve. However, it is clearly evident that you didn't bother to read the documentation properly. If you did, you would've noticed that there is also a Net-installation guide available, for example. And that our 'About Manjaro' page does indeed already provide a detailed list of the available flavours, with an explanation of what the Net-Edition is.
I'm a bit taken aback that you didn't even notice what ISO flavour you were downloading, either (i.e. the xfce edition has the tell-tale "xfce" listed in its name). I don't think it has anything to do with the "default" download for Manjaro, as there isn't one.
19 • Dear Carl (by EZ Buttun on 2012-12-03 15:36:09 GMT from United States)
Do you really expect us to read a manual? We are far too busy ranting about things on the web to know what we are doing.
20 • Quick looks (by :wq on 2012-12-03 15:48:13 GMT from United States)
Manjaro is my favorite preconfigured Arch-based distribution, and I like the Manjaro team's approach (well tested snapshots of Arch). Too bad the review didn't pan out for whatever reasons.
Regarding Kwort, while I agree that package selection is scant, there are also additional packages (Firefox, etc) available on the Kwort ISO, in the "more" folder.
21 • Distro vs Respin (by vw72 on 2012-12-03 16:29:05 GMT from United States)
Using whether or not there is a separately maintained repository as the definition of distro vs respin doesn't go far enough. Kubuntu uses the Ubuntu repositories, but is definitely not a respin and is sponsored by a different company than Canonical.
The best definition of whether something is a respin or a separate distro may be with how the parent treats it. Fedora feels that the xfce based version is just a re-spin of the base Fedora. Ubuntu feels the xfce based version is a separate distro.
It has to do with the internal workings and decision process, not whether or not there are separate repositories (although usually separate repositories would be indicative of a separate distro, just not always).
Put differently, for any given distro/respin, who has control and how is it exercised. That should be the determining factor.
22 • Manjaro confusion (by claudecat on 2012-12-03 16:37:13 GMT from United States)
Wow. It's really not difficult to discover which ISO is preferable for trying out Manjaro. It's obviously a distro that concentrates on Xfce, and it's also obvious that the net-install ISO is what it is. As someone else mentioned, there is no "default" download.
Manjaro is a young but fast growing project with unusually good documentation (easily navigable web site and wiki/forum) which should be taken advantage of when the would-be user is unsure of something. I really hope that someone will do a real review of Manjaro at some point, and that this attempted "first look" won't dissuade users from trying what I have found to be one of the most interesting new distros in quite some time.
23 • Ubuntu testing... (by cflow on 2012-12-03 16:42:09 GMT from United States)
For those who are real skeptics about ubuntu's testing, this might be an interesting read:
Apparenty, they aren't stupid - they put in a lot of objective factors in choosing their testers and subject matter. This compared to mint, who just gives what people want via interpretations of online users- I don't know how they test their interface. Which is the best approach? Who knows... Maybe a little of both?
24 • SnowLinux (by Thom on 2012-12-03 16:48:30 GMT from Sweden)
I was sorry to see the rather aborted Snow Linux review in this edition of DWW and I do feel Jesse took the opportunity to take a chunk out of the To Do list rather than try a less video-demanding interface and go from there.
At the same time, I do wish to express my appreciation for the work the good people at DW do day in day out and the normal high standard I have come to expect in DWW. A round of applause for the team.
25 • As expected... (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 16:49:49 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
26 • @23 Ubuntu testing (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 16:51:57 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the link, cflow.
27 • Thank you for the link. Please review Rebellin Linux. (by UtkarshSevekar on 2012-12-03 16:57:44 GMT from India)
Thank you so much for the link DistroWatch. Guys if you are reading this, can you please review Rebellin Linux? It's awesome and works flawlessly. It won't disappoint you as a user. I need your help to get the word out.
Just a sincere request. Please review Rebellin Linux on your website.
Here's the link: www.therebellin.com
Thank you so much.
28 • Fedora's installer (by Barnabyh on 2012-12-03 17:11:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
The new installer looks more modern now and like a better fit for the default Gnome Shell environment. Dare I say it looks Ubuntu-ish with the flat icons that seem to have become the order of the day with Google and Canonical, almost as if they're trying to confuse you and make online and your desktop seamlessly blend in.
And now MS with Outlook.com and W8 are also going for that new, simplified clean look.
That said I couldn't care less what the installer looks like, as long as it does the job and does what it says on the tin, but it's nice that somebody took the time to bring it into the new age I suppose.
29 • next level linux programing (by venkatesh on 2012-12-03 17:15:42 GMT from India)
space ship, defence ,educational, automation systems, support all processor..
30 • Manjaro (by Pera on 2012-12-03 17:17:53 GMT from Serbia)
Alongside Voyage Linux,Manjaro brought to me the best XFCE experience.It is great distro,worthy trying out.
31 • Rebellin Linux (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 18:39:39 GMT from United States)
If you really want to get the word out about Rebellin, you might want to consider offering SOME KIND of free download, even if it is just a trial. Charging for a linux download isn't new, but I for one, won't try a new product that I know nothing about, at cost, when I can get a similar product for free that I'm happy with.
To all who don't know, Rebellin is $5.00 US. Not much, but is it worth it? Has anyone here tried it?
32 • Ban fights and arguments. (by Scott on 2012-12-03 18:50:04 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
33 • Hardware compatibiltiy (by Glenn on 2012-12-03 18:58:30 GMT from United States)
This continues to be an under-emphasized area of all Linux distributions, especially the area of graphics cards. Information about whether or not a distribution will run on my hardware is difficult, if not impossible to ascertain without attempting to install any given distro.
More information about which graphics cards are definitely not supported in a given distro would save everyone a lot of time.
34 • DW's reviews... (by buntunub on 2012-12-03 19:02:46 GMT from United States)
@CarlDuff - I can understand your frustration. Imagine how I felt after reading Jesse's review of Debian Squeeze almost two years ago! :)
35 • Nadia (by colors, colors on 2012-12-03 19:17:45 GMT from Finland)
I'm loving Linux Mint 14 and a big fan of Cinnamon. I also like green and blue. But I still have a little problem. My laptop is red and I'm too lazy to find a good red theme.
36 • Sabayon 10 (by Douglas E Knapp on 2012-12-03 19:45:58 GMT from Germany)
I am a long time Liunx user and I have tried out a lot of distros over the years. They have always fallen short of what I would like to have until now. It seems that Sabayon has finally gotten it right. After giving up on Kubuntu I started distro hopping and thought I would give Sabayon yet another try because the basic idea is so cool. Problem is that it NEVER worked on my systems or crashed a lot. Now as of Sabayon 9 it has been working perfectly and much faster than any other major system I have ever tried! The only problem I have had this year was one time it updated and forgot to install a graphics driver, a big problem. But being a long time user it was easy to see and fix. It took me only a few minutes and problem solved. Not for the newbie but if you know a bit, give it a spin!
PS I have nothing to do with Sabayon other than being a happy user.
PPS some of the default programs are a bit lame but they have everything that you could want in their page management system. Use the CLI to install, the ringo thing is in need of CPR IMOHO.
37 • Flavour? (by Peter on 2012-12-03 20:50:55 GMT from Poland)
Why it can't be re-spin and distribution at the same time? Re-spin distribution sounds quite good and have a lot more sense in projects like Ubuntu than only one of the two. And we could use a word "flavour" to describe projects in form of "Ubuntu with different wallpaper" ;)
38 • Linux Mint DEBIAN EDITION (by 8675309 on 2012-12-03 20:52:13 GMT from United States)
If you think Linux Mint is the way, Linux Mint Debian Edition is, IMHO, a few cuts above regular Mint. Being a rolling release, you can say goodbye forever to having to re-install a 'newer version' of your OS, still have the great stability of a Debian based system, and still have your choice of different desktop environments, should you so please.
39 • @33 Hardware (by DavidEF on 2012-12-03 21:14:59 GMT from United States)
I agree. Hardware is very hard to figure out sometimes. What makes it worse is that sometimes a particular piece of hardware will work with one distro but not another, or even quit working with a distro from one version to the next. I have a mic on my laptop that didn't work in some older versions of Ubuntu, then it did for a couple iterations, now it doesn't again, for the last few releases. That kind of stuff is ridiculous. Graphics cards sometimes have the same up-and-down situation, as internal changes to the OS change the functionality, or lack thereof, of the drivers. It would be great if developers would keep a running list of the hardware their OS supports, and not let it go backward without a REALLY GOOD reason.
40 • STOP (RE)SETTING THE SYSTEM CLOCK! (by Annoyed in America on 2012-12-03 21:26:38 GMT from United States)
I like Linux Mint and will use it. However when it comes to desktop distros...
I HATE THE FACT THAT NO ONE - NOT EVEN MINT - SEEMS TO REALIZE THAT SYSTEM TIME (in the BIOS settings) IS ALMOST ALWAYS SET TO LOCAL TIME!!!
Yes, it is an easy thing to deal with but it shouldn't even be an issue.
Come on people! It's almost 2013 and the "Y2K" scare was over a decade ago. This time fix isn't exactly a "bug" but it's still something no one seems able or even willing to correct. The best I've seen is some sort of configuration process that still messes with the BIOS clock - needlessly!
Dual booting with Windows when the BIOS time has been "adjusted" by a Linux distro - even a Live one - is a HUGE ANNOYANCE! Windows and only a handful of other OS's always correctly assume the system time is set to LOCAL time and NOT some weirdo UTC offset. You might have even noticed that Windows has "time servers" it can sync with too. But those time servers are almost exclusively for atomic clock settings where longitude calculations might be more critical. Those time servers won't help reset the hour or even the date! So when Mint or something resets the BIOS / system time, it just messes things up. SO STOP IT!!! Stop the madness.
SYSTEM TIME IS LOCAL TIME!
41 • end of linux zealot. (by one is enough on 2012-12-03 21:46:22 GMT from Indonesia)
I have five years old laptop, other distro forced me to use fn+left arrow as soon as it boot. the only distro that work without using fn+left arrow was antiX. I use antiX 12 now, I have everything that I need. ceni detected my wlan card, no fn+left arrow, and I don't have to download flash player or multimedia codecs after install. so goodbye opensuse, goodbye ubuntu, don't care with fedora or arch linux I don't need all of you.
42 • Manjaro (by Jesse on 2012-12-03 22:58:40 GMT from Canada)
>> "However, it is clearly evident that you didn't bother to read the documentation properly. If you did, you would've noticed that there is also a Net-installation guide available"
Why would I read the net-install guide when there was no indication the software I had downloaded was for a net-install? The ISO is quite large, it comes with X and the About page doesn't mention a net-install option is available.
>> " I don't think it has anything to do with the "default" download for Manjaro, as there isn't one."
Really, because when I browse to the download page it offers me a ISO, manjaro-0.8.2, without me having to browse through the list of available spins. That certainly seems like a default to me. If the default download link had pointed to the Xfce spin then I would have taken it.
43 • @13 Monstrosity (by Ron on 2012-12-03 23:20:16 GMT from United States)
"Please, everybody, stop insulting me and other Unity Shell and/or Gnome 3 Shell, and/or "whatever DE" users by your comments. No wonder people accuse the linux community of being rabid and insane! There are better ways to say "I don't like Software X, and I don't use it."
Comments? I would call if FEEDBACK. Yes, feedback, one of the most quintessential processes in just about all of nature.
How else is anyone to judge the popularity or usefulness of a nefarious monstrosity than to consider other's valid opinions ?
Are you really asking others to just not speak? Asking someone to not give an opinion on an opinion outlet is, well, (to paraphrase this sort of thinking "deep thinking man that I am"), silly.
44 • My continued Light Distro testing ( #! ) (by Leo on 2012-12-03 23:21:35 GMT from United States)
So, I've created a Crunbang ( #! ) install on a USB, just to see if it could be an option for a homebrew 'chromebook' or 'workstation'
To me , for a techie/scientist workstation, it is awesome as it is. For regular users (like, uhmm, my family), it is a bit hard, in that "icons" are not supported "naturally".
I added aDeskBar, removed things redundant with the panel, and it seems like the way to go. I still need to edit the "autostart" script to run google chrome and aDeskBar on login (there is a menu entry that opens a text editor as super user for that). It still is a bit annoying, in that you can't simply add an app, because the app menu you see in aDeskBar is not the same as the Debian menu, so only a few apps show up. I needed to configure a custom launcher, and hunt for the chrome logo (to add google chrome), and others for other apps. Not the end of the world, but I guess it would be nice to add support for either launcher or desktop apps, which would make #! accessible to a larger audience.
As it stands, my light Ubuntu install + razor qt is a more familiar, and really fast interface. But it is rather incomplete, though useable, at this point. That's my default bootup on my dell mini, which boots to a full desktop in 15 secs.
45 • #44 (by anticapitalista on 2012-12-04 00:55:20 GMT from Greece)
So Leo, antiX was also suggested to you. Are you going to give it a try?
Poster #41 liked it :)
46 • Manjaro (re:#42) (by Hoos on 2012-12-04 02:10:09 GMT from Singapore)
There was a link directly to the XFCE iso image for 0.8.1 via the distribution release announcement on Distrowatch's own pages. The iso file name had "xfce" on it. It worked brilliantly as a live distro. However I had some problems installing it due to Grub and X issues.
After version 0.8.2 was released, I noticed from Distrowatch's own pages again that they had announcements for both XFCE and LXDE versions. So I visited their site and went to their download page. I had no problems identifying and choosing the DE version I wanted (XFCE). I chose the basic option of using the open source graphics drivers, installed version 0.8.2 onto my 7 year old computer, and it's running very well.
This is my first Arch distro. I'm not a Linux expert, so I can say that I believe it does a good job of making things simple and ticking along. It's worth trying out, IMO.
47 • @40 Re: STOP (RE)SETTING THE SYSTEM CLOCK! (by Predrag Punosevac on 2012-12-04 02:17:45 GMT from United States)
The system time is always Coordinated Universal Time (UTC). Converting UTC to a local time based upon the stored information about the time zone of a local user is a job of the operating system. Apparently your favorite operating system has a major bug because it uses local time as a system time.
48 • Manjaro (by JDM on 2012-12-04 02:24:32 GMT from United States)
I was able to easily distinguish between the net install and full ISO when I downloaded and installed Manjaro on my laptop a couple weeks ago. I also burned the LXDE version and checked it out in Live mode before going with XFCE.
Not to add insult to injury, but as a non-IT person, I am not very deep technically. Consequently I tend to scour a distribution's website with extra care. All 5 of my home PCs run Linux of some variety -- mostly Debian/Ubuntu versions.
Before Manjaro I tried Archbang on my oldest box and used it for a while. Although I started getting used to Pacman package management, I still missed Synaptic. Maybe it is because I am not a very good typist.
Anyway, I have often heard that real hacker men (and probably women) think an application like Synaptic "gets in their way" but that's not how it is for me.
Lack of a good graphical package manager is my only knock on Manjaro so far. It feels very light and responsive when I am using it (If you can say that about an OS.).
Hope you find these comments instructive.
49 • Re: #40 STOP (RE)SETTING THE SYSTEM CLOCK! (by Vance on 2012-12-04 02:29:06 GMT from United States)
No, on UNIX systems, the system time is UTC and has been since before Windows ever existed.
Fortunately you can configure your Linux-based system to treat the hardware clock as local time: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52423/different-time-in-windows-and-linux-mint
Some of the downsides of using local time in the hardware clock are described here: http://catless.org/Risks/24.66.html#subj15
50 • Manjaro (by JDM on 2012-12-04 02:32:35 GMT from United States)
"Constructive" not "instructive." That's why I have to be careful. JDM
51 • @28 (by Adam Williamson on 2012-12-04 05:17:55 GMT from Canada)
Despite the name, the 'new UI' isn't really just about making it look nicer - a lot of it is to do with cleaning up and rationalizing the UI code to make the maintenance workload more bearable.
52 • Re: @48 - JDM (by claudecat on 2012-12-04 06:01:59 GMT from United States)
Kudos to you JDM for sharing your experience with linux and Manjaro. I agree that it feels very light and responsive - much more so than, say, Xubuntu. I'd add that it seems (to me) much more polished and complete than other "light" Xfce distros like Zenwalk or Vector.
I too love Synaptic - for me it's the ONLY gui package manager worth using. You may want to try using yaourt-gui in Manjaro (it's in the AUR, hence usable on most Arch based distros). First do pacman -S yaourt, then do yaourt -S yaourt-gui. It's a simple bash wrapper/"gui" for common pacman commands that eliminates a lot of typing (I too am a poor typist).
Hope this helps you or someone. Arch-ish distros don't have to be hard!
53 • @40 Re: STOP (RE)SETTING THE SYSTEM CLOCK! (by one is enough on 2012-12-04 06:18:34 GMT from Indonesia)
For UTC or non dual boot with Windows
# echo -e "0.0 0 0.0\n0\nUTC" > /etc/adjtime
For local or dual boot with Windows
# echo -e "0.0 0 0.0\n0\nLOCAL" > /etc/adjtime
....linux = freedom isn't it??????
54 • @27 what the rebelin?! (by greg on 2012-12-04 07:15:59 GMT from Slovenia)
I see no incentive to try out rebelin as well. not because of the payment (which could be easilly avoided if you put it on server outside India, but because after scouring the site there is no mentioning of any good product support. "the team" is a one man band, that refers to himself in 3rd person. i could not find list of packages at least some basic ones that are installed. all in all it seems like debian with few new icons and a few backports - we already have that in Mepis, Chrunchbang and few other debian spin offs. there are also some strange claims in there that put me off. like going against "fragmentation". there really is no big fragmentation. you can use gnome apps nicely in KDE (which for example i prefer) and i can use KDE and Gnome apps in windows as well. bottom line i see no usability improvement that would stand out.
55 • Last Post on the Manjaro Issue (by Carl Duff on 2012-12-04 12:05:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Your "review" falsely claims that 'The Manjaro documentation assumes the user will attempt to launch the installer from the desktop. Starting the system installer from the command prompt isn't covered...' Yet anyone can see that the wiki does provide a net-edition installation guide.
Your "review" also states that 'searches for combinations of "manjaro", "system" and "install" from the command prompt didn't return any matches'. Yet upon booting up, there is a message that states you should enter "sudo setup" after logging in to start the installation process. It's displayed right there in front of your eyes along with the login details. This is after not paying attention and/or bothering to check which ISO you had downloaded or were trying to use.
Your responses to my posts also falsely claim that the 'About page doesn't mention a net-install option is available'. Yet there is an entire paragraph about it there. And it's listed in both the stable and testbuild release sections. And throughout the wiki itself.
And of course your responses falsely claim that there is some kind of a 'default' net-edition download. Anyone visiting the sourceforge website can see for themelves a big list of available ISOs in the 0.8.2 folder. ISOs with the names of the DEs listed in them.
I really don't see any point or sense in your responses so far. It seems you feel aggreived by my criticism of your review. How do you think we feel about a trusted reviewer on a popular website publishing a slapdash "review" that glibly misrepresents and rubbishes our hard work to the world? Be as critical as you like - we at least have the humility to take on board fair criticism. However, it would be appreciated if you could show the appropriate level of courtesy, professionalism, and self-respect to put in the effort necessary to properly - and failry - evaluate the work of others.
56 • Manjaro (by kc1di on 2012-12-04 12:20:32 GMT from United States)
I have to say Jesse that I had no problem finding the xfce iso and installing it. I personally don't care for the package management and like debian based distros better. But it is fast and seems stable for what little time I've used it.
One of the problems I have with many distros on this particualar set up is the fonts just look lousy on this video card / monitor out of the box , so either have to spend lots of time fiddling or simple stay with mint/ubuntu which both do a good job on this machine.
In any event manjaro looked pretty good here. Hope next week you fair better :)
57 • @54 Rebellin (by DavidEF on 2012-12-04 14:24:44 GMT from United States)
Yeah, from the looks of things, there is not much, if anything, to be gained by trying it. The claims on the website are too vague to give any real idea of what you're getting. The reason I mentioned the money isn't because it's so much (which it isn't) but because I could easily try hundreds of other distros I may never use, all for free. If the OS is worth it, I don't see $5.00 US being a barrier to adoption, but I'm not looking to PAY to test it out, with NO really specific mention of what there is to gain by it.
58 • The decline of Linux Mint (by Simon on 2012-12-04 15:11:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have been using Mint as a desktop OS from the beginning of the LinuxMint project. Mint 9 or 10 were probably the best as far as stability, user-friendliness. and lack of bugs is concerned. It's been on a slide downhill since there.
The latest editions are increasingly buggy and unstable. I don't blame this on the Mint team but on the increasing bloated state of GNU and Linux kernel.
I envy those who have only recently discovered Linux Mint. They can enjoy possibly the best Linux-based OS currently available without being shadowed by the 'good old days' memory :)
59 • Rebellin's not bad! Why hate it?! (by Utkarsh on 2012-12-04 15:25:58 GMT from India)
@54 (Greg): Greg, I know Rebellin's short of what other distros are out there. But c'mon! What was Mint when it started? We have to start at least somewhere! And I do have a vision. Just cos the first step was a baby step doesn't mean it's a crappy product or it won't get any momentum!
Secondly, I haven't referred to myself in 3rd person anywhere. Don't know how you read.
But anyway, I expect some constructive criticism from you. Help me grow. Download Rebellin and tell me how I can improve. No seriously. Please download Rebellin! :)
60 • @58, Decline of Linux Mint (by TobiSGD on 2012-12-04 17:28:33 GMT from Germany)
"The latest editions are increasingly buggy and unstable. I don't blame this on the Mint team but on the increasing bloated state of GNU and Linux kernel."
If the kernel or the GNU tools were to blame for Mint's bugginess (which I can't say anything about, I am not using it) then any other distro using the Linux kernel and the GNU tools would have the same problems. I can assure you that this is not the case, so you should seek the cause for instability somewhere else.
61 • Decline of Linux Mint (by marti on 2012-12-04 18:11:18 GMT from Spain)
I do not think that Linux Mint is getting worse, actually I think it is the best distro for newbies. It is a bit buggy, and it has always been basically because ot two reasons:
First because it is based on Ubuntu (and so it is based on Debian sid), or on Debian testing (the Liinux Mint Debian edition). Neither Debian sid nor Debian testing are bug free (nevertheless, Debian testing is a pretty stable distro at the moment because it is frozen, but in 3-4 months will start rolling and become a bit tricky)
Second: Because the Linux Mint team is a small team, and they are working on lots of projects at the same time (they develop Cinnamon desktop, they release the Linux MInt main edition Cinnamon, LM main edition MATE, KDE, Xfce, Linux Mint Debian edition -this last one is a distro I will never understand, neither it is a rolling distro nor it is a secure distro-). They should choose one release (ie Linux Mint Cinnamon) and focus on it, they will get a bug free distro, and if someone wanted another desktop environment, they could always get it from the repos
62 • Manjaro (by Bill on 2012-12-04 20:02:48 GMT from United States)
I tried Manjaro Xfce version when 0.8.1 came out here on Distrowatch. Just downloaded the iso, and ran the CLI installer. It was very very easy and I had some fun with Arch as I had never run that distro before. Once I figured out Pacman and then AUR stuff, I had everything I ever wanted running, including cairo dock, emerald themes, and compiz. The forum was very helpful answering questions in a timely fashion. I still have an image file of the system which I can put back on a partition whenever I want to. The reason I'm not running it now is because no matter what I tried I couldn't get CUPS and printer to recognize my cannon and print. Also in AUR the "ace-of-penguins" solitaire game wouldn't work. But other than that it was easy, fast, stable and the help on the forums was great.
63 • @58 Decline of Linux Mint (by Chanath on 2012-12-05 03:35:20 GMT from Sri Lanka)
"The latest editions are increasingly buggy and unstable."
Well, that's true, and since they started playing with libmutter, things get slower. If you want, have a look here; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2090907
You might be surprised at the memory usage.
64 • 59 ? Rebellin's not bad! Why hate it?! (by Utkarsh (by Chanath on 2012-12-05 04:14:18 GMT from Sri Lanka)
"But anyway, I expect some constructive criticism from you. Help me grow."
To get that constructive criticism, you have to let the people download your Rebellin free. No one is going to test a distro, which had to be paid to download. If you remember Elive, where to find it today, and that person at least allowed it to be downloaded, but blocked it from being installed.
Bodhi, on the other hand, made a superb distro, got more than enough "constructive" and "destructive" criticism, where is Bodhi now? On the very top! And, how he tried to make it better and better!
65 • Zentayal review (by Robert Strickler on 2012-12-05 05:08:56 GMT from United States)
Since webmin is deprecated by ubuntu and no longer in the official repositories. Zentayal (nee ebox) has been given the nod in its stead. While it has a full install t Its features are also supposed to be available via an apt-get install package. I would like to see a review of this package and how well it handles SAMBA4, DHCP, DNS configuration and administration.
66 • Saving on distribution costs [Rebellin, Elive, etc] (by SkepticalEncourager on 2012-12-05 06:15:41 GMT from United States)
If it costs $5 to upload 1.5Gb, you're paying way too much for bandwidth. Consider distribution via torrent instead.
67 • #(58,60,61,63) MintX (by zykoda on 2012-12-05 15:46:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
IMHO the basis has become more problematic for Mint 11-14. Everyday still on 9 myself until another distro switch is called for! Backed off from 10 for LTS reasons. Future may be a tailored Debian 7? I have many other distros trialling, but none yet match the OOBE of Mint 9. So little to install and configure for me. YMMV.
68 • XFCE (by Peter Besenbruch on 2012-12-06 04:41:55 GMT from United States)
I use XFCE on Debian. Whether its Squeeze (the stable version) or Wheezy (testing, and soon to be stable), the version of XFCE I run is 4.8. I run it on Ubuntu Lucid (10.04) and Mint Isadora (9), too. Debian is faster, and takes less RAM. No distro has XFCE configured the way I like, so I tend to roll my own with Debian.
You install until you get to the point when you get asked what sorts of tasks I want to do. I always leave the Desktop environment blank. After I reboot, I install mc, xfce4, xorg, lightdm, and synaptic. I remove exim4-config, exim4-base, and rpcbind. Then I reboot again, and I have a very fast and light desktop. From there I can add what I need, and I have nothing extra.
It's a little more work to set up, but for the expected two years of use, Debian is worth it.
69 • Mint (by Franz on 2012-12-06 17:42:47 GMT from United States)
I give a try to Mint and it is so good (live dvd). Everything works faster than on my FreeBSD, applications are newer than on FB and I am ready to change OS. It looks like FreeBSD for desktop user is history...
70 • My testing of light distros: MacPup (by Leo on 2012-12-06 21:40:17 GMT from United States)
One of you suggested McPup, I loved it. It isn't just light but ultralight, inherited from Puppy. And it looks TONS better and more professional to my taste. Also, more intuitive to be used, so it's a better Puppy in my opinion.
My only gripe is that it doesn't have a volume control gadget in the panel, and clicking on the WIFI signal opens a slightly confusing PUP configuration window, which is a bit confusing. Finding where to adjust the volume is a challenge, the only way I found was by running some generic "wizard wizard" which I accidentally found. In that sense, #! is a lot easier, but then again, it isn't nearly as light.
My verdict: MacPup rocks, and it's a better Puppy
71 • @52 (by JDM on 2012-12-07 04:11:24 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the tip claudecat.
Pacman says yaourt is already installed. When I tried to install yaourt-gui, I got an error message saying the package is corrupted. Hmmm.
Manjaro has its own repositories but allow downloads from AUR. Looks like I have many learning opportunities with this distro.
72 • Games (by Rajesh on 2012-12-07 13:01:17 GMT from Qatar)
I would like a feature to be implemented in all linux distributions by default.
Whenener we play a game on linux the resolution changes from my default 1280 x 800 to 800 x 600 or what ever is set in the game.
After quiting the game the resolution does not return to my previous default of 1280 x 800.
i have to manually do it.
Cannot this be done automatically ?
Appreciate a reply soon.
73 • Re: 72 • Games (by Leo on 2012-12-07 14:32:58 GMT from United States)
I've seen this happen, Rajesh, but it is not a universal problem. It happens for certain combinations of games and graphics drivers. And it has gotten a lot better in recent years ... what's your software/hardware? HTH!
74 • @71 (by mandog on 2012-12-07 20:42:59 GMT from Peru)
I don't know what you are doing wrong but the package installs fine. I you have a problem go to Manjaro forums and ask that is where you will get help.
75 • Ubuntu spyware: the new RMS article (by Caitlyn Martin on 2012-12-07 22:26:30 GMT from United States)
In case you haven't seen it yet: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do
76 • 68 XFCE (by Peter Besenbruch (by Chanath on 2012-12-08 01:00:59 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Well, Xfce is good, Lxde too. If you install from the Ubuntu mini.iso, Precise, Quantal etc, and then add xinit, and install Xfce (or Lxde), you'd get a faster installation. I am not saying Lubuntu desktop or Xubuntu desktop, but Xfce or Lxde. Once, you rebooted and logged in, you can install all the apps you want, without being hitched to a given desktop. What you'd run is a pure Xfce (or LXde) with the Ubuntu base.
The speed is the more or less the same, whether you install Debian or Ubuntu base. There is one plus too--you can install ppas in a Ubuntu based installation, and an easy way to remaster it. Being with Ubuntu, you are in a much modern installation than in a Debian one.
77 • Same old same o', but is there hope? (by SkepticalReticent on 2012-12-08 05:51:48 GMT from United States)
Canonical Corporation says they send no "personally identifying data" (only "hashed IP" and maybe geoIP) to Amazon Corporation, and offers opt-out. Many downstreamers offer opt-in instead, of course. When you have the Source, you get Choice.
Of course, socialista RMS of FSF screeches "Spying! Boycott!" anyway. Really? Just how much software has he personally worked on and donated lately? Why should we throw out the baby with the bath-water?
Notwithstanding extremists from both poles, I suggest more robust solutions than patent or copyright are needed, and more likely to come from the Freed Software community than from corporations - provided cooler heads prevail. After all, developers need to eat too.
78 • bummer (by Windows is a bummer on 2012-12-08 8:33:16 GMT from Sweden)
"Dual booting with Windows when the BIOS time has been "adjusted" by a Linux distro - even a Live one - is a HUGE ANNOYANCE!"
Even worse, when you install/reinstall Windows, it wants to overwrite the MBR and if you're not Linux savvy, you'll have to dig around for how to restore your MBR for dual boots!
Windows should bend towards ease of use, Linux is easier to use once it's installed for that matter and upon install usually gives you the option of leaving any Windows partitions alone.
79 • Unity (by Ex-ubuntu user on 2012-12-08 11:54:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a long time Ubuntu user, now ex-Ubuntu user, Unity is has been a huge turn-off.
Perhaps I'm just an old-fashioned conservative luddite.
I use Debian/gnome now, which I have used before.
Ubuntu, please drop Unity - it is simply pants.
80 • @Ubuntu spyware (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2012-12-08 13:03:55 GMT from Luxembourg)
Stallman is right: Spyware is spyware no matter who it comes from. Period. Shame on Ubuntu.
81 • Manjaro (by Jeff on 2012-12-08 15:28:46 GMT from United States)
I have Manjaro-Xfce installed on my Macbook and it runs great. The review written on here is really an injustice. It has an easy installer, and stays updated just a touch behind the regular Arch distro. I love it.
82 • @77 (by John Dough on 2012-12-08 18:01:55 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu is backed by a corp, eventually corps like to see return on their investment(s), I'm not surprised in the least. There are a plethora of distros based on Ubuntu (actually better too) with no spyware to choose from, all this will do is drive faithful users to those distros, oh well.
83 • Ububu (by Skeptical on 2012-12-08 22:43:04 GMT from United States)
I haven't seen incompetence as bad as Canonical's first Amazon Lens search results since ... another corporation published alpha-quality software. Even for those who like the idea, refusal to address blatantly obvious bugs resulted in negative PR. It wasn't the concept, but the initially underhanded, and then arrogantly high-handed refusal to fix, that put so many potential customers off. Clearly Shuttleworth is no Jobs.
But will the Freed Software community pioneer better methods for supporting development, or just kick its feet in the air and whine, and leave it all to corporations by default?
84 • Ubuntu spyware: Canonical is the evil (by Claudio on 2012-12-09 01:20:33 GMT from Brazil)
Some years ago I knew a man (Mr. Katsuyoshi) who posted here
using the pseudonym NippoNoob. He made a lecture in my school
showcasing the superiority of Linux over Windows. I remember
he said: "Unhappilly, the desktop is dominated by Microsoft.
But there is an even worse company in the Linux world. It's
name is Canonical."
Then he started such a harsh criticism of both Windows and Ubuntu,
and such a big propaganda of other distros (if I still remember,
PCLinuxOS, Vector, and Dreamlinux), that I got very confuse, not
knowing what to try. But one thing I understood perfectly: There
are "good" and "bad" distros, depending on their code bases and
some other factors.
Since that day, as recommended by Mr. Katsuyoshi, distrowatch.com
became one of my favorite tech sites. Many months later, I decided
to choose antiX as my main distro and abandon Windows. (Oh glory!)
Today, after reading the article suggested by Ms. Caitlyn Martin,
I finally realize why Mr. Katsuyoshi said this in an old e-mail:
"Ubuntu must die. Period. Android is another Linux we can't
rely on because it's baked by another evil company."
Well, I now clearly see that the guy was right. And I thought he
was being paranoid... Silly me! No wonder why he used to say that
Red Hat is the only decent Linux company, and that all Linuxers
should love Scientific IceWM (the distro he runs in a laptop).
The funny thing is that Mr. Katsuyoshi, who is an architect, runs
Windows XP at work. The guy is a heavy user of Autodesk's AutoCAD
(another closed-source software) and NVIDIA's Quadro videocards
(hardware devices that need proprietary drivers).
Yes, proprietary software still rules the world. Maybe this is the
number one reason why some Linuxers hate it so much. And If the
open-source Ubuntu was contaminated with malware, what to say
about the closed-source ("blackbox") Android?
I'm biased to thing that EVERY software company sucks, one way or
another. Thus, could we blindly trust Red Hat? What would make it
better than Canonical (besides the quality of RHEL, of course)?
85 • Live testing ArchBang! 2012.12 (by John Dough on 2012-12-09 02:50:28 GMT from Canada)
on a P4 1.7GHz junk pile. I have been toying with several 'lite' distros for about 3 weeks now, oddly enough, most Ubuntu based lag like crazy, wattOS is ok but still a bit laggy and buggy (the desktop icons have a mind of their own, lol). ArchBang 2012.12 is a very pleasant surprise, considering other distros with a 'newer' kernel did not like my D-Link DL10050 PCI network adaptor, this one has the 3.6.8 kernel and the card works just fine. I like this slick, fast and clean distro so much, I will be wiping wattOS and installing ArchBang. Coming from Debian/*buntu, I will have to learn a few new command line tricks but hey, ArchBang has an excellent wiki, the Rosetta section is fantastic. I have 8 years distro hopping/testing experience, I am REALLY impressed by ArchBang!
86 • re: XFCE (by Peter Besenbruch on 2012-12-09 07:59:40 GMT from United States)
I just switched my last machine off of Ubuntu today. I am familiar with PPAs and have used them quite a bit. The problem with running them with Ubuntu Lucid, is none of them kept up to date. You basically got one round of updates to the next Ubuntu release, but nothing beyond that.
Debian works a bit differently. It has a more extensive Backports repository, and then there are Backports for Debian Desktop and Iceweasel. Supported software works better from Debian Backports. Eventually Squeeze Backports had more complete and more advanced versions of GNUCash, XFCE, Audacious, GIMP, and the Linux kernel.
Installing from a mini-ISO, as you describe, and building up makes more sense that ripping out a bunch of stuff. I ran a fairly lean Lucid with XFCE, and I can tell you that Debian is a tad quicker, but not enough to matter. Phoronix ran tests on Ubuntu vs. Debian in a similar configuration, and found Debian faster, but again, not by much.
What I like is Debian's stability, when added to the mix. Ubuntu can't match it. LXDE was fairly unstable on Lucid. XFCE was a lot better, but every two weeks, or so, the X server would freeze. That simply doesn't happen with Debian, at least not on my machines (they're all Intel based).
Finally, the closest thing Debian has to spyware is the Popularity Contest, which is disabled by default. Now Ubuntu has added search lenses, and plans to add more in 2013. I don't like Ubuntu's direction. That's why I took my last machine off of Ubuntu, today.
87 • Re: 84 . Ubuntu spyware: Canonical is the evil (by Celso (son of Katsuyoshi) on 2012-12-09 13:56:46 GMT from Brazil)
I'm biased to thing that EVERY software company sucks, one way or
another. Thus, could we blindly trust Red Hat? What would make it
better than Canonical (besides the quality of RHEL, of course)?
I guess you meant "I'm biased to THINK that..."
Anyway, I was also influenced by my dad's propaganda of Red Hat, a company we simply love. Although I use VectorLinux, which has nothing to do with RHEL...
As you must know, Claudio, he is no more a warrior fighting the "evil empire" (Microsoft). After starting his own business, he works about 12 hours a day and has almost no time for breathing. And I will go to the university next year, so I also don't have much time to waste here in DistroWatch or in any other Linux site. BTW, this is my only post at DWW's opinion column.
I have never said a single word against Microsoft just because I'm too different from my tempestuous dad, who defines himself as "The Microsoft Enemy Number One". In reality, I think Google is much worse than Microsoft for the single reason of being a Linux company. Well, Chrome OS is nothing else than a cloudy inferno, isn't it?!
Red Hat's RHEL is probably the best distro ever created. It's not a frightening "blackbox" like Google's Android or Apple's Mac OS or Microsoft's Windows, and I'm pretty sure it will never get either a spyware or a backdoor.
Long live all devs committed to excellence!!!
88 • Re: Rebellin (by silent on 2012-12-09 17:53:11 GMT from Hungary)
You created a very nice desktop distro. Using Debian as its base is a good idea. As proposed here earlier, you could make it freely available for initial testing by torrent. I wish you lots of success! And keep ... an eye on the market :)
Number of Comments: 88
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|• Issue 799 (2019-01-28): KaOS 2018.12, Linux Basics For Hackers, Debian 10 enters freeze, Ubuntu publishes new version for IoT devices|
|• Issue 798 (2019-01-21): Sculpt OS 18.09, picking a location for swap space, Solus team plans ahead, Fedora trying to get a better user count|
|• Issue 797 (2019-01-14): Reborn OS 2018.11.28, TinyPaw-Linux 1.3, dealing with processes which make the desktop unresponsive, Debian testing Secure Boot support|
|• Issue 796 (2019-01-07): FreeBSD 12.0, Peppermint releases ISO update, picking the best distro of 2018, roundtable interview with Debian, Fedora and elementary developers|
|• Issue 795 (2018-12-24): Running a Pinebook, interview with Bedrock founder, Alpine being ported to RISC-V, Librem 5 dev-kits shipped|
|• Issue 794 (2018-12-17): Void 20181111, avoiding software bloat, improvements to HAMMER2, getting application overview in GNOME Shell|
|• Issue 793 (2018-12-10): openSUSE Tumbleweed, finding non-free packages, Debian migrates to usrmerge, Hyperbola gets FSF approval|
|• Issue 792 (2018-1203): GhostBSD 18.10, when to use swap space, DragonFly BSD's wireless support, Fedora planning to pause development schedule|
|• Issue 791 (2018-11-26): Haiku R1 Beta1, default passwords on live media, Slax and Kodachi update their media, dual booting DragonFly BSD on EFI|
|• Full list of all issues|
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|Random Distribution |
ARMA aka Omoikane GNU/Linux
Omoikane GNU/Linux, known as OGL, is a Japanese distribution based on Debian's testing branch. It has a user friendly installer based on Scheme and GTK+. The commercial branch of the Omoikane GNU/Linux is knows as ARMA - it includes the most popular Japanese input method "ATOK", RICHO True Type Fonts and other features. A free version of OGL, containing fewer packages, is available from FTP servers and mirrors.