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1 • Slow performance in Virtualbox (by Ubuntu 12.10 on 2012-10-29 09:59:38 GMT from Netherlands)
Only VirtualBox 4.2.2 (released 2012-10-18)
supports Xorg 1.13
•Linux Additions: support X.Org Server 1.13
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog
2 • Ubuntu (by Jon Wright on 2012-10-29 10:07:12 GMT from Vietnam)
Jesse says new releases of Ubuntu always turn heads but it feels like the fanfare surrounding this one sounds distinctly ... muted. (I only just got around to downloading it this morning.) Thanks for reviewing it Jesse - this is the first serious review I've read - I'm not too surprised with the conclusion but I would really appreciate it if you could be a masochist one more time and review Xubuntu - pleasant surprise perhaps?
... and I wonder if Clement will be able to make anything from this latest release - or will Mint be taking another big foray back into Debian land?
3 • Unity 2D-3D (by silent on 2012-10-29 10:21:46 GMT from Europe)
"In addition, the lack of a 2-D mode means users who do not have suitable 3-D acceleration are out of luck." I think that this is not correct: "In Ubuntu 12.10 everyone* will be able to use ‘regular’ Unity – Unity 3D. Those lacking sufficient graphic grunt will get a hardware accelerated interface powered by the OpenGL rasterizer LLVMpipe, whilst anyone with a capable graphics card will see that utilised" (Joey-Elijah Sneddon, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk). There are a couple of test on Phoronix regarding LLVMpipe, the conclusion is that: "While LLVMpipe can handle a basic Linux desktop like Unity or the GNOME Shell if on a recent x86_64 CPU with multiple cores and modern instruction set extensions, even with the high-end Intel Core i7 3960X CPU it's still not viable at all for running old, visually-unimpressive OpenGL games".
4 • Re:2 Mint (by Nick on 2012-10-29 10:22:03 GMT from Greece)
"... and I wonder if Clement will be able to make anything from this latest release - or will Mint be taking another big foray back into Debian land?"
That is never going to happen. Dont get your hopes up. If you want a Mint based on Debian use LMDE.
5 • Ubuntu review opinion (by Ubuntu 12.04 User on 2012-10-29 10:29:05 GMT from United States)
@Jesse
Sorry you had problems with 12.10. I have installed on one of my machines and it seems to be working fine. On my work machine I only use the LTS versions. 12.04 is solid and no problems. For newer software I usually add some trusted PPA's and seem to have no problems at all. On my laptop I use Kubuntu 12.04 and I've really warmed up to KDE. You need to remember that these 6 month releases are like a testing ground for the LTS versions. It seems your review proved that point. Good review.
6 • Ubuntu 12.10 vs Kubuntu 12.10 (by rich52 on 2012-10-29 11:38:51 GMT from United States)
I installed Ubuntu 12.10 and had quite a few issues with the install on my 64-bit machine. In frustration I too it off and my decision was final with it. It may be 6 more months before I reconsider taking another look. Graphics was one of the issues.
On the other hand Kubuntu 12.10 was by far considerably much better and offered me no real issues except for getting hplip printing driver to run after I installed it. I realized that a 'sudo hplip-setup' in Konsole was all I needed. After that everything was working real smoothly. I'm liking KDE much better.
I'm now awaiting Fedora 18 and Mageia 3 for their next upgrades. . . hopefully they will be as equally mpressive or better.
Rich :)
7 • "Something has changed" = advertising embedded. (by os2user on 2012-10-29 11:53:41 GMT from United States)
"During the first twenty-four hours Ubuntu spied on me, provided performance which was distinctly sub par, the interface regularly popped up errors (sometimes so frequently the first pop-up wouldn't have faded out of view before the next one appeared), the update notification didn't work and it wasn't possible to turn off accessibility features through the graphical interface. Adding insult to injury, the Unity dash kept locking up or losing focus while I was trying to use it and the operating system crashed more times than not while trying to shutdown or logout."
It's certain that the spy processes for advertising tie-ins don't help.
Now, if this trend continues -- of Linuxes getting filled with extraneous crap, GUIs gone gaga, and built-in spyware -- then it's no alternative at all. I suppose there are some minimalist versions, but I want to be shielded from Unix: that's what the GUI is supposed to do.
But where do I go to complain about the stupidity of GUIs that with one slight slip during marking will attempt to open dozens of video files at once, and lock up the machine? None of that behavior can be changed: it's all hard-coded.
Stop getting more complex with geeky "features" that no one uses, guys; stop flirting around chasing every new release: use the same programs every day until you learn what's needed to actually make them convenient.
8 • The two modes of Unity (by Bored Slackware user on 2012-10-29 12:06:06 GMT from France)
Unity works in two modes: Facepalm and Fallback.
:o)
9 • Surprised Zero errors on 12.10 (by Sayth on 2012-10-29 12:09:00 GMT from Australia)
Surprised to here there were errors on the laptop install of 12.10 as described in the review.
I couldn't have had a more opposite expreience, all hardware detected on my system and the additional drivers installed well.
During my time I had one error report which I filed, but nothing to stop me working or interupt me at all.
Only thing is that a debian stable or testing install is faster.
10 • Other community spins (by Jesse on 2012-10-29 13:08:40 GMT from Canada)
>> " I would really appreciate it if you could be a masochist one more time and review Xubuntu - pleasant surprise perhaps?"
I personally probably won't review the other Ubuntu community projects, but I believe Robert is planning to cover Lubuntu in the near future. that will give us two "buntu" reviews. When version 13.04 rolls around I'll certainly consider trying Xubuntu.
11 • So scared to run Linux: LINUX REVIEWERS!! (by gregzeng on 2012-10-29 13:51:35 GMT from Australia)
I daily surf YouTube, which has a few regular testers/ reviewers of all the newly released Linux Distros. All frequently mention & use Distrowatch in their postings. Some reviewers (Ireland, USA & Australia) also have in common a podcast together, as ll as other individual internet postings.
What surprises me is their use of Virtualbox from their favorites distro, rather than running the distros in real time, using Linux screen-video capture. So each so-called 'review' is just a face-over. Only one reviewer has Ubuntu 12.04 (with Unity) as their favored virtual-box tester.
They all use Linux's Openbox or similar to create their YouTube uploadings. But none dares to use Openbox, etc in the tested distros. Is Linux THAT bad that no tested (new) distro is capable of using any apps?
Retired Chief Information Officer (1984), Australian Capital Territory
12 • Ubuntu has left me longing for a useful desktop. (by Still Searching on 2012-10-29 14:03:34 GMT from United States)
Thank You Jesse for an honest review.
I have been distro hopping since Mandrake 8.2 looking to replace Windows in my company. The open source community has helped us in many, many ways to overcome the vendor lock in challenges associated with . In most cases, with, mostly, a minimal amount of training or re-training. Our last area is the desktop itself. Because of the lack of a real, usable, Linux desktop, we have been forced to upgrade from Windows 2000 to XP to 7. We have tried many different variations of all of the desktop programs. Some work fairly well, but still, none of them offer the stable, day to day operational stability the Windows 2000. I really have had high hopes for Unity, but this latest version, even after changing the privacy settings to stop the Amazon stuff, leaves the desktop much slower than windows 7. We will keep reading your reviews Jesse, and keep looking for a usable Windows Desktop Replacement.
13 • ubuntu---excited or ashamed? (by Julian on 2012-10-29 14:12:40 GMT from United States)
what ubuntu is doing to integrate with tablets and mobile phones is wonderful and groundbreaking. their unity environment is shameful though in terms of its performance on most machines. If Jesse had reviewed Xubuntu or Lubuntu i'm almost certain the performance issues he encountered would have disappeared. What is Shuttleworth thinking?
14 • Jumped off Ubuntu wagon (by Still Using a Pentium 4 on 2012-10-29 14:16:11 GMT from United States)
I have old hardware and I'm painfully aware I'm not Canonical's target audience since they went with a PAE kernel even with Xubuntu. So it's Lubuntu for me (for now, LOL) or using some other distro. I like Salix a lot.
15 • Ubuntu 12.10 (by Tony on 2012-10-29 14:17:49 GMT from United States)
My Ubuntu 12.10 experience has been decent. I upgraded from 12.04LTS to 12.10 on my Dell E6410 Laptop (Intel Core i-7 @2.66Ghz,4M cache), 4GB RAM, NVIDIA NVS 3100 512MB Graphics, 500GB DH) because Dash 12.04 would lock up and sometimes the system crashed. I did notice several crashes and system errors the first day while testing on 12.10, but they weren't as bad as 12.04. By the third day the system was operating much better, and note that I updated the system through update manager every time an update is available. Now over a week later, I haven't received anymore of those system crashes anymore. The 12.10 system is much faster than 12.04, and starting to be real pleasure to use. Regarding performance, I think the laptop runs nicely because of the 4GB RAM and the especially the NVIDIA NVS 3100 graphics card. So far so good and I would say to everyone give Canonical some time to do more bug squashing and let 12.04 get better. Eventually, I will migrate back to 12.04LTS to take advantage on the support provided until 2017. I will keep all other PCs at home on 10.04LTS until April 2015 since I loaded the server software and added the Ubuntu-desktop GUI after the install.
16 • No More Linux Distros (by J of S on 2012-10-29 14:24:38 GMT from United States)
We need to put a ban on these new releases, and simply call them skins. If you have hundreds of releases, how can the Linux market develop? Call the releases skins, I say.
17 • ...by still using a Pentium 3 (by morri on 2012-10-29 14:52:25 GMT from Germany)
I have got ebven older hardware, and while I am not prepared for the bare loooks and feel of tiny r puppy linux i run fine with Lubuntu, which idels at 175 MB Ram.
18 • A nice *buntu based distro (by Ray on 2012-10-29 14:58:47 GMT from United States)
Jesse, Could I suggest reviewing Luninux 12? I use it on my (GASP!) netbook in fallback with effects disabled and its been great. Based on ubuntu 12 lts, with an OSX style interface. Who knows, you might like it.....
19 • ubuntu 12.10 (by frajla on 2012-10-29 14:59:48 GMT from Serbia)
since Canonical start with Unity i'm using Arch GNU/Linux. It's much faster, and it's KISS.
20 • #13.xubuntu (by jack on 2012-10-29 15:26:53 GMT from Canada)
I tried to install xubuntu 12.04.1 (both 32 and 64 versions) on my 64 bit machine.
When instructed to push the restart button (at end of install) the cd tray popped out and *immediately* retracted ...too fast to remove the cd/dvd.
Also a notification appeared saying that my computer had experienced a crash either now or in the past.
I had to reinstall my previous xubuntu 11.04 to have a functional computer.Many thanks Jesse for a very practical and honest review
ps
I think that sentences describing (in a review) the screens that tell the person to push the "continue" button are redundant .(unless they don't work)
21 • @12 Useful desktops (by eselma on 2012-10-29 15:32:53 GMT from Spain)
After Slackware and RedHat, I started to use seriously Linux with Mandrake 7.0.2. The transition then was not so easy, but finally was able to migrate my work computers and the private ones, including some members of my family, not technically savvy. Now I am using Debian Linux everywhere: Virtualbox cares of some necessary MS-Windows applications. But there is a common denominator for every system I have been using since then: KDE desktop. The easiest migration from MS-Windows world, if you have enough resources (but still usable in a tiny netbook).
Of course, as I could realize, Ubuntu with Unity desktop can be useful in some leisure gadgets, but it seems NOT intended for production environments, specially if the users come from MS-Windows (aka Hasefroch).
My 5 cent.
22 • If you're going to review another Ubuntu... (by Matt on 2012-10-29 15:52:11 GMT from United States)
I think it's worth noting that LXDE and Xfce really don't have much of a difference memory wise. As far as Lubuntu and XUbuntu go, they should pretty much use about the same amount of memory, I don't have any hard-numbers though, as it depends on things other then just Xfce or LXDE (So with that, while LXDE and Xfce use around the same amount, XUbuntu probably has some extras that bump up it's memory useage a bit). If someone is going to review Lubuntu then it's worth at least adding a quick comparision to the memory useage that XUbuntu uses as that's probably one of the main reasons someone would choose one over the other. I personally have tried Lubuntu and XUbuntu for every Ubuntu release from 11.04 to now, and I can say XUbuntu always felt much better put together from a useability standpoint. Xfce is just a lot more integrated then LXDE is.
I'm glad to see this review, I'm going to hold off on bumping my Brother's Ubuntu 12.04 install up to 12.10. He's using the onboard video and has a somewhat slugish computer in general, so this update won't do him any good. I've offered to setup Xfce with an easier setup then Unity because it would be faster, but suprisingly he likes Unity and would rather just stay with what he has, so go figure.
23 • Ubuntu Review (by Donnie on 2012-10-29 16:25:39 GMT from United States)
@Jesse--I used to keep my production Ubuntu machines updated to the latest Ubuntu version, but your experience with 12.10 is an example of why I quit. I've found the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu to be nothing but trouble, and I no longer run them on production computers.
Canonical's decision to allow users to upgrade LTS versions to non-LTS versions is a huge mistake. They should do like Red Hat, and separate their production and development versions into two distinct distros.
24 • @22 Ubuntu/Lubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu compared (by michaeljking on 2012-10-29 16:29:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
This blogpost has listed some basic information about the amount of ram and how it compares
http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/ubuntu-1210-quantal-quetzal-review-is.html
it has a good Lubuntu review too!
http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/lubuntu-1210-review.html
25 • @22 Ubuntu/Lubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu compared (by michaeljking on 2012-10-29 16:39:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
all four are here, sorry!
http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/ubuntu-1210-vs-kubuntu-1210-vs-xubuntu.html
26 • LTS vs regular (by Gustavo on 2012-10-29 16:41:19 GMT from Brazil)
I believe that the fact of some LTS releases being more stable is just a coincidence. 10.04 was rock solid, 12.04 has a lot of unsolved bugs. 12.10 is just better in this respect.
Canonical just packs a lot of buggy software and sometimes they got it right by mere fact that the software they distribute got fixed mainstream.
27 • Ubuntu's base (by Jesse on 2012-10-29 17:35:24 GMT from Canada)
>> "I believe that the fact of some LTS releases being more stable is just a coincidence."
I don't think it's a coincidence. As I recall Ubuntu's regular releases are based on Debian's Unstable branch, but their LTS releases are based off Debian Testing. Unless Debian happened to be going through an upheaval at the time this makes it more likely Ubuntu LTS releases will have software which has undergone more testing and bug fixes.
28 • A real, honest review (by Caitlyn Martin on 2012-10-29 18:22:28 GMT from United States)
Thank you, Jesse, for an honest review. Expect some hate from some of the Ubuntu fans at some point. As you well know it goes with the territory.
I keep trying new Ubuntu releases. I keep discarding them as broken pieces of junk, at least on my hardware. Oh, and no, it's not the same bugs over and over again. Like you I've had something work on one release and break on the next, including 12.10.
Regarding the suggestion you try Xubuntu and/or Lubuntu, my experience with them is better, at least in terms of the desktop, but they consume more RAM and run more slowly than similar distros with other bases, including Debian-based distros. I can't find a compelling reason for me to run anything *buntu at this point. Pity.
29 • @28 (by cba on 2012-10-29 18:52:55 GMT from Germany)
You could install a commandline *buntu system and afterwards add xorg, lxde or xfce4. That's all, then there is nothing left of Ubuntu, this is rather pure Debian Testing with regard to the last releases. Debian needs a lot of time to publish a new stable release so this Ubuntu thing is something like a stable "test-bed" which usually works on most desktops.
30 • Ubuntu 12.10 know issue (by Open Source Fan on 2012-10-29 18:57:37 GMT from India)
Good Review but Ubuntu 12.10 is not a complete usable desktop as comapare to 12.04, sluggish , less compitable , selection of package is not upto mark
common problem
1.unity is little sluggish,download shell and use gnome traditional desktop which is fast
2. i you are using 64 bit version you will not able to install wine , ia32-lib, so not able enjoy xampp untill ubuntu resolve some dependency issues
3. No Power Profile option is there, if using laptop each time when you log into ubuntu desktop screen brightness will be 100%, a little tweak can help to get rid of this problem
31 • #29: I've done that (by Caitlyn Martin on 2012-10-29 19:17:30 GMT from United States)
I've done as you suggest before and it does work well with Ubuntu. However, as you correctly point out, then there is no Ubuntu left to speak of. There is no longer any compelling reason to start with Ubuntu. In that situation I'd rather use another base, preferably one with rpm packages. Both openSUSE and CentOS/Scientific Linux are great starting points for building as you suggest. For that matter, some may prefer Slackware or Fedora or ROSA... in the end the only differences are what's in the repos, the packaging system, and what you add to your base.
32 • Ubuntu (by Jesse on 2012-10-29 19:42:26 GMT from Canada)
>> "Thank you, Jesse, for an honest review. Expect some hate from some of the Ubuntu fans at some point. As you well know it goes with the territory."
Aye, sometimes it does go with the territory, but I've found most people are pretty good about rolling with the punches. Especially in the Ubuntu community. Maybe having their favourite distro in the spotlight so much toughens the skin of Ubuntu fans. Or maybe the way the community is structured just makes for less of a cult mentality than some other distributions. After some reviews of various distros I get hate mail, even threats. Which made me wonder if the people writing those things thought that would make me take their favourite project more seriously? I am open to constructive critique, but I fail to understand the thought process behind angry, violent ranting.
>> " Like you I've had something work on one release and break on the next, including 12.10."
Which is a shame. I've found Ubuntu (and its community spins) to be really good for the most part. In fact I'm running Kubuntu 12.04 and Ubuntu 12.04 on my main laptop and desktop right now, quite happily. I'm a big fan of that LTS release which made my experience this past week all the more disappointing.
>> "Regarding the suggestion you try Xubuntu and/or Lubuntu, my experience with them is better, at least in terms of the desktop, "
I tried Lubuntu a while back and it was pretty good. Very quick. I believe Robert has a review of Lubuntu in the works and I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
33 • @24/25, note on removal of Unity-2D (by Matt on 2012-10-29 19:48:23 GMT from United States)
Thanks for pointing me to that website, I was curious on those numbers. And looking at that, XUbuntu runs with ~40MB more RAM usage then Lubuntu. I can see how that would make a difference on some older hardware, most normal computer users wouldn't even notice the extra usage though.
Does anybody know what's going to happen to Unity-2D on 12.04 setups since it was dropped in 12.10? Will it stay or should I expect it to be removed by an update and switched with Unity-3D using software rendering(At least, that's my understand of what it's doing)?
34 • No obvious buntu solution for me (by geirknappen on 2012-10-29 20:31:08 GMT from Norway)
To bad no obvious buntu distro solution has presented itself since 10.04. I am quite used to to looking up technical solutions for eventual problems in ubuntu 10.04, if someone have had a problem of some sort, almost always some forum dude finds a way to solve it. Not all distros have that,I guess.
There is a couple of thing thats annoying with ubuntu 10.04: 1 is that sometimes i lose wireless Internet connection. This usually happens when I run Transmission for several hours. 2 is that last time i inserted a dvd, it did not detect it. And I have never written a bug report.
I have only 1 gb ram on my laptop, and ubuntu 12.04 was to wastefull on resources. I dont like the kde desktop environment, It just feels so chaotic, so kubuntu is not for me. Xubuntu 12.04 seemed to have some bugs on the live cd, and the xubuntu 12.04.1 point release would not boot with unitbooin. Lubuntu was not so easy to customize (I didnt see anyway how i could), but note I didnt try much.
35 • @34 (by Matt on 2012-10-29 20:44:07 GMT from United States)
You noted that XUbuntu 12.04.1 wouldn't boot with unetbootin, but it's not needed anymore assuming you were using it to install to a USB. All Ubuntu iso files should be hybrid files, so write the iso directly to a USB (Via the dd command or similar) and it will be bootable with no need to use unetbootin. I ran Ubuntu 12.04 and 12.10 this way, so XUbuntu 12.04.1 should work fine as well.
36 • Sluggish Ubuntu..try Elementary (by Andrew on 2012-10-29 21:27:42 GMT from Australia)
For anyone hating the performance of Ubuntu + Unity I reckon another alternative worth trying is Elementary OS Luna.
It's not released yet but you can try a daily build ISO; it's still quite stable I've found. And the thing flies.
It uses several hundred MBs less RAM than Unity Ubuntu and it's still based on 12.04, so you get all the usual packages and software centre. Could be one to watch (just hurry up and get it finished Elementary guys :3 )
37 • #34 Alternate recommendation (by Caitlyn Martin on 2012-10-29 21:44:47 GMT from United States)
On older laptops I've been very pleased with SalixOS, especially the LXDE build which is exceptionally light and fast. I have 13.37 running on a Toshiba Libretto L1 (Transmeta Crusoe 600MHz processor, 384MB RAM) and it runs reasonably well on the old box. With 1GB of RAM it should be quite the performer. Oh, and yes, 13.37 will work with UNetbootin.
38 • Ubuntu alternative desktop (by ZorklatdeOrc on 2012-10-29 21:53:12 GMT from United States)
I'm using Ubuntu-based Madbox 12.04 (dunno why the dev doesn't send release announcements DWW, the distro's in the database) and it's working pretty well for me. When I log into the desktop, I find about 105MB of RAM in use, according to conky. It's basically an Openbox distro in the tradition of #!, fortified with several other components of lxde, and very light with regard to installed apps. It's worth a shot.
39 • How is Ubuntu 12.10 spying? (by Steve on 2012-10-29 22:24:40 GMT from New Zealand)
Hi Jesse,
Thank you for the review. Personally I haven't had any problems running 12.10. I am a tad concerned with your statement that 12.10 was spying on you. Could you please clarify how exactly it was doing that? (i.e what it was was doing, how you became became aware). Personally I don' t have a problem with the Amazon thing, but privacy is a concern.
Many thanks,
Steve
40 • Ununtu 12.10 (by David McCann on 2012-10-29 22:37:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
I review new distros at LinuxQuestions.org and I've just finished (thankfully) with Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xununtu. Of current distros, there are 30 I've rated at 7/10 or better: that's 30 reasons not to use Ubuntu.
The release notes tell you that it may not work with any video chips except Nvidia, ATI, and the latest Intel: true. They then suggest a solution that starts with the alternative CD and ends with creating xorg.conf. In fact, all I needed to do was add "xforcevesa" to the boot parameters. Do they not know their own distro?
The person who claimed that the fall-back mode is still present in Unity is mistaken. I had Compiz running my CPU at 100% and I couldn't even get at the menu. In Kubuntu, 5 out of 6 programs had bugs, one didn't work, and one crashed with an illegal instruction. In Xubuntu, the installer was still the one that crashes on certain (unspecified) hardware, a bug solved in Ubuntu 12.04.1.
41 • re A nice *buntu based distro by Ray (by Waltff on 2012-10-29 23:11:02 GMT from United States)
"Jesse, Could I suggest reviewing Luninux 12? I use it on my (GASP!) netbook in fallback with effects disabled and its been great. Based on ubuntu 12 lts, with an OSX style interface. Who knows, you might like it....."
Ray, could I suggest you try Fuduntu on your net book? I am using it on mine and it works great and I do not have effects off and don't need to turn them off. I like Luninux and have tried it both on my net book and my laptop but when searching for the perfect distro for net books, Fuduntu takes the cake!
42 • Is it spying? (by Jesse on 2012-10-29 23:29:54 GMT from Canada)
>> "Thank you for the review. Personally I haven't had any problems running 12.10. I am a tad concerned with your statement that 12.10 was spying on you. Could you please clarify how exactly it was doing that?"
Unless you specifically disable the feature Ubuntu monitors your activity, keyword searches and keystrokes. Some of these, along with your IP address, are transmitted to third parties. As to how i found out, check the privacy settings in your System Settings panel and read the project's legal notice (I linked to the appropriate documents in my review).
43 • Ubuntu Hatred (by cflow on 2012-10-30 00:31:36 GMT from United States)
Note this: I don't use Ubuntu (Unity) on my main desktop - my graphics card can't handle it very well - but I do notice one thing - of all other distributions I've tried, the Ubuntu based ones are the most convenient and flexible. No other distro type has ppa's to update packages, the sheer number of automatically configuring packages, software managers that actually look "good", nor installer that is as convenient. There _must_ be a reason why so many distributions use the Ubuntu base, all over openSUSE, Mandriva, Fedora, or even Debian itself. I wonder why There's no Mageia derivative with xfce, while there are several Xubuntu ones? I thought that would be an awesome combination...
Yet I've seen that not only do some wish others to quit using Ubuntu, but even for developers to stop using the Ubuntu base to make their distributions - Some want Mint and such to do that, even Kubuntu to move to debian testing, which really misses the whole point of it being an official derivative.
This extreme I consider not only hatred, but a huge step back from any of the progress the Linux world has to getting even a piece of the desktop. Ubuntu already has so much work done for many more to build, and the builders who have so much experience with the tools are asked by users to dump them to use another base just because hate Canonical.
By the way... It's been over 3 years since someone at distrowatch reviewed xubuntu, and I didn't consider it very in depth. why the snub?
44 • Ubuntu and drivers (by Toran Korshnah on 2012-10-30 00:35:33 GMT from Belgium)
I wonder if Ubuntu supports TomTom GPS and all Samsung multifunctional printers. As long as no GPS-manufacturer is supporting Linux I keep W7 until it crashes, but I will NOT go to W8...
45 • Ubuntu 12.10 Installation Experiences (by Tom Trotter on 2012-10-30 01:50:20 GMT from United States)
I've always liked Ubuntu ... being torn between a customized
version of RHEL 6 with many Georgia Tech/PUIAS enhancements
and the flash and pop of a really hot, current distro. So when
Ubuntu 12.10 came out, I had to try it. Ouch, ouch, ouch several
times over. I put it on two laptops, both Lenovo's, one a T410 and
the other a T420. I also installed it on two desktop pc's. This one
has an NVida 8600 GeForce card and my main workstation
has an NVidia 370LP card. This one has 8 GB of ram while
the main machine has 20+GB of ram. I had stability issues
with all four installations, but this machine with the GeForce
card was the worst. After doing all the updates, I got into
a loop where the machine would spontaneously logout
and take me to the login prompt. A forced reboot would
kill the loop ... but only temporarily. After a little bit of
desktop usage, I would invariably get back into the loop.
I did two installations on this machine and the behavior
was repeated.
Between the four machines, I've sent a large number
of reports of system errors back and eventually got tired
of the exercise.
Just to be fair, all four machines ran relatively well with Ubuntu 12.04, the LTS release. Most likely, I should just swallow
hard and keep using stable resleases like this one and
forget all the nice looking but unreliable stuff that comes
with the latest and greatest. Bottom line is that I would
give Ubuntu 12.10 five fingers down. Your hardware/mileage
may differ, but my experiences were uniformly bad, not
disappointing, but bad.
Tom Trotter
46 • Ubuntu (by Jesse on 2012-10-30 01:50:34 GMT from United States)
"Or maybe the way the community is structured just makes for less of a cult mentality than some other distributions."
Sabayon, perhaps?
If you haven't reviewed Xubuntu in a while, as some have suggested, you should. I've had absolutely no problems with 12.04, and this has been a hard machine to get recent Linuxes working on. I'm not an Ubuntu fan, but Xubuntu seems like the best place for Gnome 2 types at present.
47 • @44 (by Jack on 2012-10-30 01:53:48 GMT from United States)
Totally agree. My golf gps only works with Windows and TurboTax is the same. For Linux I use SolusOS 1.2 and am anxiously awaiting 1.3.
48 • Lightweight Buntu-based distro (by Hoos on 2012-10-30 07:06:30 GMT from Singapore)
@34, have you tried WattOS r6? It's a LXDE distro based on Ubuntu 12.04.1 so you have the benefit of all the Buntu repos without the bloat, the Ubuntu trademarking, and unnecessary stuff.
I have a 7-year-old PC running wonderfully on it without sluggishness. In contrast, the last few versions of Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint, Mint KDE and other heavily eye-candied Buntu derivatives haven't been doing so well. They are either sluggish and/or my modest graphics card can't handle their escalating requirements.
49 • Lightweight Buntu-based distro (part 2) (by Hoos on 2012-10-30 07:14:55 GMT from Singapore)
Oops. Forgot to mention that like you, my system has 1GB RAM. Customisation? I installed Compiz and it runs well on WattOS r6.
I installed WattOS using Multisystem on USB.
50 • Re:2 Mint (by Jon Wright on 2012-10-30 08:16:03 GMT from Vietnam)
It's just that I've never read of anyone reviewing the latest version of Mint and recommending that readers skip it and stay with the last one, no matter which version of Ubuntu it is based on - I recall 9.10 Karmic not rated so highly. If 12.10 is a bomb like it sounds then it might be good to skip it - why would people use it when the version released six months earlier is LTS? Only to keep the donations rolling in, I imagine. And the Xfce version will be going back to Debian in all likelihood?
51 • Ubuntu 12.10 (by Andreas on 2012-10-30 09:30:23 GMT from Sweden)
Ubuntu .12.10 is an awesome release, remember that this is the first release after a LTS and it can be buggy the first month. 12.04 was the best Ubuntu release to date and Unity works great. Thanks Canonical and Ubuntu devs. :)
52 • PUPPY LINUX (by Y R DIXIT on 2012-10-30 10:31:41 GMT from India)
Puppy linux is a very small linux, having all fetures, but network connection ( mobile broad band ) why it is so complicated in many this types of distros ? its better to improve like other major distros like ubuntu / mint / magia / suse/ debian / fedora / redhat etc.
most of the linux users dosent know how to connect usb modem
53 • Ubuntu releases and why they are usually buggy (by TobiSGD on 2012-10-30 12:18:05 GMT from Germany)
IMHO it is pretty simple, the main reasons for Ubuntu being buggy are these two:
1) The short development cycle of six months. Almost any other distro that at least somehow has stability as a goal has a longer development cycle. The only other popular distro with a development cycle of six months is Fedora and gues what? People expect Fedora to be bleeding edge and buggy. So I wonder why people think that this can be massively different with Ubuntu. When I hear phrases like "remember that this is the first release after a LTS and it can be buggy the first month" there are only two things that I can think of: The release cycle of Ubuntu is obviously one month too short and at least some Ubuntu users already have made their peace with being used as beta testers of an already released version.
2) The mindset of the developers. The AMD Catalyst 12.6 Legacy drivers were released in July, three months before the release. Nonetheless they have not made it into the current version, so that third party how-tos are necessary to explain to people how to use their hardware properly with Ubuntu. The developers just seem not to care about people using hardware that AMD considers to be obsolete. In opposite to that they replaced the bootloader while Ubuntu was already in the beta phase, which was not a minor replacement. Obviously no one ever explained to those developers what a beta phase is for: getting rid of bugs, not making unnecessary changes.
If I think about that I wonder abput people that expect Ubuntu to be somewhat bug free. Any distro that really aims at stability has a release cycle of at least a year, with an extended testing (not replacing) phase. Debian's beta phase is as long as Ubuntu's whole release cycle, you simply can't expect it to be stable.
54 • @44 Ubuntu drivers? (by greg on 2012-10-30 12:34:58 GMT from Slovenia)
44 • Ubuntu and drivers (by Toran Korshnah)
I wonder if Ubuntu supports TomTom GPS and all Samsung multifunctional printers. As long as no GPS-manufacturer is supporting Linux I keep W7 until it crashes, but I will NOT go to W8...
Ubuntu is not making drivers. it's only packaging the modules together and making them work nicely (sort of) with eachother. Drivers are made by manufacturers and some by opensource.
I do not know about tomtom GPS, but Samsung provides unified linux drivers (a PPA with patches is also available) and my multifunciton printer works great.
55 • Development cycle (by Jesse on 2012-10-30 13:12:28 GMT from Canada)
>> "IMHO it is pretty simple, the main reasons for Ubuntu being buggy are these two: 1) The short development cycle of six months. Almost any other distro that at least somehow has stability as a goal has a longer development cycle."
I don't think that's really fair. Lots of projects have release cycles that are six months or shorter, some of them are quite stable. In the Linux world there are lots of projects which roll out incremental updates quarterly (once every three months). Over in BSD land OpenBSD has a six month release cycle. The issue isn't the time between releases it's the style of development which takes place during that time. Ubuntu is a large, very experimental project based on an unstable upstream repository. It's not really designed with stability in mind, at least not where the development (non-LTS) releases are concerned.
56 • There are a reasons Ubuntu is falling in the rankings (by John Dough on 2012-10-30 13:28:45 GMT from Canada)
Terrible GUI, spyware, etc, makes a good base for other distros though, like Kubuntu for instance, been running 12.04 since April, very few problems, customizable, fast, clean, pretty. There is no question Ubuntu wants to be the Linux world's 'Windows' (ack) but we really shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Just sayin'. :-/
57 • Ubuntu development cycle (by David McCann on 2012-10-30 16:23:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you look, Ubuntu has quite a long development cycle: alpha 1, alpha 2, beta 1, beta 2. So why aren't the bugs getting picked up? I think the problem must be that not enough people are downloading these test releases. If you look at the Ubuntu forum, there are a lot of unanswered posts. And LinuxQuestions has a lot of non-Ubuntu users try to make up for it. There are not enough hobbyists using Ubuntu, the sort of people who provide the army of testers that keeps Linux distros on their toes. The secret of success with Ubuntu (apart from being able to tolerate Unity) is probably to have a computer from a major manufacturer, made recently, and with Nvidia or ATI graphics: then at least Canonical will have tested on something similar.
58 • Ubuntu 12.10 (by DavidEF on 2012-10-30 17:00:52 GMT from United States)
I've been an Ubuntu user ever since 5.10 was the first linux I could get to install successfully on my desktop computer many moons ago. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of Ubuntu in all these years. But it was never IMHO any worse than others I tried, and mostly I considered it better. I even like the Unity interface and the dash.
The latest Ubuntu offering seems completely out of place with my past experiences. Jesse said it seems like an early beta. I'd say it's more like a late alpha. Not only is it not ready for production machines, it is not even feature complete. I've installed it on my few-years-old HP laptop with dual-core 1.9GHz AMD processor, 2GB RAM, 160GB SSD, and onboard Nvidia graphics. The Dash was unusable until I turned off web search results. It would seemingly freeze after typing a few letters in the search box. And it would not give me applications results, only files and/or web items. I also had to manually track down some dependencies for a couple of applications I installed, as well as the Nvidia graphics driver.
The Nvidia thing is still boggling my mind. The desktop was doing some crazy stuff, so I decided I needed the proprietary driver. I installed Jockey, because it had been removed from the default install, but there was no obvious replacement. I used Jockey to "activate" the Nvidia driver, then rebooted.
Upon logging in, I saw nothing on the screen but my wallpaper and mouse pointer. After fiddling around, I figured out how to get the "System Settings" to come up, and discovered that the new way to un/install Nvidia drivers is in a new tab in "Detailed Information". I reverted back to the Nouveau driver, rebooted and logged in. Everything was back to the way it was before the fiasco. But, that was still problematic, so I searched online to find the solution. It turned out to be that the Linux Kernel Headers needed to be manually installed before the Nvidia driver could be installed. Jockey hadn't told me that.
Like I said above, there were other cases with applications where a dependency was missing, and I had to find out and install it manually. It seems to me that the devs should have caught this stuff months ago. Now, my laptop functions, but still has a few issues that I don't know how to fix. I'm tempted to start distro-hopping again, even though that never brought me any satisfaction in the past. It just doesn't seem right to have such glaring regressions. What is going on here? If they said there was a major structural change in the underlying OS, and it might be weird for a while, I could understand. But, I haven't heard anything like that. It seems that someone simply dropped the ball.
59 • linux (by Ulf on 2012-10-30 17:06:14 GMT from Netherlands)
Why not ban all spinoffs of main distro`s?
Linux is just linux E.G the kernel.
Everything else is polishing of some sort of company.
There are a few real good distro`s;
Red Hat , Debian, (Open) Suse,
and a few BSD`s , Openbsd,Free bsd etc.
The rest are wannebees, just instal a linux kernel begin adjusting to your liking, for everyday work.
And please keep from compairing distro`s to eatchoter.
We beginning to sound like windows fans compairing one version against the other.
Do with linux what ever you like en be happy, just because you can.
if you dont think that way you are not a real free software user,
butalso a wannabee.
60 • @59 Keep from comparing?! (by John Dough on 2012-10-30 17:17:20 GMT from Canada)
Whaaaaat?! Really?! Not just with Linux, with ANYTHING, somebody will come along and make something better. You shop around for shoes or cars or whatever don't you? I shopped around for years, since 2004, and finally settled on Kubuntu 12.04 for many reasons including (to me) KDE is the best DE around. Being based on something so well supported like Ubuntu is just a bonus, Kubuntu is a BETTER iteration of Ubuntu, hands down. Comparing is how the cream rises to the top, the cream gets my donation dollars.
61 • sluggish Ubuntu on modern hardware? (by Comparor on 2012-10-30 19:16:03 GMT from Germany)
Example: siduction boots in under one and installs in under 5 minutes, none of it's Desktops is sluggish, Amazon and BBC have to stay out by default, but the world keeps talking about Ubuntu, which took 4 minutes only to boot and almost as long as WinXP to install on the same hardware!
If it wasn't for the excellent support in Ubuntu forums (given by USERS, not devs for the most part), I would have nothing positive left to say about Ubuntu. Sometimes I think Shuttleworth gets paid by MS to give Linux a bad name lol. But that's surely not the case, it's just hybris...
62 • Driver addition (by Jesse on 2012-10-30 19:22:51 GMT from Canada)
>> " I installed Jockey, because it had been removed from the default install, but there was no obvious replacement. I used Jockey to "activate" the Nvidia driver, then rebooted."
I'm not sure why you would think that, the Additional Driver module is still in the Ubuntu System Settings panel, just as it was in previous releases. It's there in the default installation.
63 • EFF on Ubuntu 12.10 privacy concerns (by Caitlyn Martin on 2012-10-30 21:37:56 GMT from United States)
Jesse isn't alone in raising red flags. The EFF is raising alarms as well: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/EFF-calls-Ubuntu-Shopping-Lens-a-major-privacy-problem-1739019.html
64 • @63 The irony (by John Dough on 2012-10-31 00:11:50 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu took Debian and turned it into exactly opposite of what Debian is all about. If Debian's development, etc, wasn't fragmented, I would be using it, but I am just too damn lazy (troubleshooting, command line, fixing, etc). :-/
65 • Bloatware and things.. (by davemc on 2012-10-31 01:22:32 GMT from United States)
os2user - "Now, if this trend continues -- of Linuxes getting filled with extraneous crap, GUIs gone gaga, and built-in spyware -- then it's no alternative at all. I suppose there are some minimalist versions, but I want to be shielded from Unix: that's what the GUI is supposed to do."
Agree. The only difference at that point is that Linux is "free", as in free beer.
Don't fret though. There is always Debian which will never, ever succumb to such silliness.
66 • #65 Debian "will never succumb?" (by imnotrich on 2012-10-31 01:48:45 GMT from Mexico)
You forget that Debian already succumbed.
Debian developers consider drivers for common hardware as "bloat" and stripped them from the distribution.
Debian developers also consider Flash, Java, Codecs, and loads of other necessary features/functionality as bloat and don't include them either. While true Debian has made great strides in helping regular users who actually want to use their computers for work and or play many bugs and issues still require command line fixes, and in some cases there are no workarounds.
And now the next version of Debian is going with a GUI similar to Unity and Windows 8? This only reinforces my belief that Debian developers talented and devoted as they are don't give a rip about regular users.
I'm not a fan of the endless spins we see on Distrowatch being touted as "new'" or separate distros, but if anyone can suggest a useable, non-grub2 distro using a NORMAL gnome2 style GUI that features stable yet up to date software and common drivers I'd love to try it. My Ubuntu experience ended at 9.04 because newer versions don't support my very common hardware, and more recent versions come with a garbage gui (and yes, I tried "classic" but it's not a true gnome).
Linux is dying, people! We need to pull together and focus on functionality/usability for a while instead of bs gui changes and features nobody wants.
67 • Red Flags have been waving... (by RollMeAway on 2012-10-31 01:53:15 GMT from United States)
Red Flags have been waving since kde4 and gnome3 began development.
For gnome3: "Zeitgeist is a service which logs the users's activities and events
(files opened, websites visited, conversations held with other people, etc.)
and makes relevant information available....."
For Kde4: Akonadi,nepomuk,strigi,virtuoso....masquerade as being beneficial to users,
while logging every keystroke, content of ALL personal files, email, websites visited, etc.
ALL your personal info setting in databases on your computer (and perhaps on some web servers?),
Do you REALLY think these databases are for you, the user?
Let us assume the creation really was to benefit the users (so they can find a lost file ?).
The temptation for programmers, who know the data is there, just waiting, ...you finish the story!
68 • @65 (by cflow on 2012-10-31 02:29:59 GMT from United States)
>>And now the next version of Debian is going with a GUI similar to Unity and Windows 8? This only reinforces my belief that Debian developers talented and devoted as they are don't give a rip about regular users.
Which "gui" are you talking about?
69 • Re: Linux 'spyware' (by John Dough on 2012-10-31 02:33:56 GMT from Canada)
Remember when you used Windows? Remember shutting off their spyware 'services'? Every distro that actually makes it on to my HDD, that's one of the first things I do, research what services are running in a default install, decide which ones are beneficial and which are not and eliminate accordingly. I, for one, do not need file indexing, etc, I know where my files are, on my storage drive nicely organized, by me, not the OS. Here is a theory, at least half of the distros out there try to emulate Windows in one way or another to gain 'converts' (my self being one of them), the latest spying bloatware, etc, is an extension of that. Even I see my own Windows influence, preferring KDE because it is much like pre-Windows 8 GUIs, sad but true. Bottom line, Linux is free, nobody can really complain, tweak until it suits YOU, that's what I do. Kind of like going to a food bank soup kitchen and yelling at the cook for too much salt in the soup, try a different soup kitchen.
70 • Ubuntu spying and stuff (by claudecat on 2012-10-31 03:06:52 GMT from United States)
While I am no great fan of Ubuntu (I find Unity almost as inconvenient to use as gnome-shell), I think the furor over the whole Amazon in dash search thing is a bit excessive. I don't like it and will never use it, but it takes just 3-4 clicks to completely disable it. Is it bad that unsuspecting linux newcomers will not know to do this? Yes. Do I think Ubuntu has a right to recoup some cash in this way? Sure they do. Like it or not, our online lives are an open book in many more devious ways than having our Amazon searches etc. cataloged.
In other news, I had zero issues with putting Ubuntu 12.10 on my 2 machines (in-place upgrade actually worked on the laptop!). It is a bit slower than 12.04, and the compiz cube is broken when there are any open windows, but it seems ok otherwise. I guess I'm in the minority here :=}
@ imnotrich - Sadly, the few remaining gnome-2 distros seem to use grub2, with the exception of CentOS/Scientific (I think - I didn't install their grub at all here). Even more sadly, both gnome2 and grub legacy are all but extinct. It may be time to come to terms with KDE or xfce.
Also, isn't Debian going with xfce for its "default" DE?
71 • #68 (by imnotrich on 2012-10-31 03:08:51 GMT from Mexico)
It's called Gnome 3. Tried it yet?
Total garbage. Looks like Unity or Windows 8, but less functional.
When will developers figure out what mainstream users want and need as a base/default? I don't have time or energy to test drive 30-40 distros every month. I just need something stable that works, something that gets out of my way and lets me get work done. Am I asking too much? 20+ years using Linux, hardly an expert but I'm bright enough to know the difference between smart changes and stupid changes.Observing a lot of stupid ones lately.
72 • @71 (by cflow on 2012-10-31 04:06:46 GMT from United States)
The default cd _won't_ have gnome 3 - It will have xfce:
http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Debian-to-use-Xfce-as-its-standard-desktop-1663868.html
Apparently there wasn't enough CD disk space for Gnome 3. The DVD might have gnome, like the last release, but probably for the same reason, will have kde by its side. I don't know for sure, and don't know if they're biased towards any desktop in particular. I think that's why it's prone to so many spins. :)
73 • Kde3 is still a usable desktop (by RollMeAway on 2012-10-31 04:23:47 GMT from United States)
I have been aware that kde3 always remained an option on openSUSE. I've ignored it, expecting they would drop support soon.
From: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE3
"As of openSUSE 12.1 KDE 3 desktop is included as officially supported part of the distribution. Additional KDE 3 software can be installed from community-supported KDE:KDE3 repository. "
A week or so ago, someone posted a link to a "how to" for an openSUSE net install of kde3. Guess I was bored, so I followed it.
It is like coming home after a long time on the road. Everything is quick and easy. I open a window, POP it is open, close a window POOF it is gone. No wobbly shake and shimmy crap to disable. Even the invisible theme for gkrellm works. There is no apps running in the background logging my every keystroke either.
Along with a solid desktop, I have the latest packages for other application.
I decided to revisit several OLD Kde3 distributions, installed on various legacy
computers I keep from the dump.
I found vector6 SOHO still has a working repo. so does mepis 8, kanotix-kde3, and slackware-12.1. There probably are more.
This means you can still install software on those system, like a driver for your new printer or other gadget.
I also installed a trinity derivative called "q4os". Quite a disappointment. Didn't even have konqueror!
I always install firefox and thunderbird directly from mozilla, and get immediate updates from mozilla. Never have to wait for a distro maintainer.
So, a rock solid desktop, nobody tweaking the packages, they just work, and the most recent browser and email client. What more could one ask for?
74 • One more Kde3 option, and counting ... (by RollMeAway on 2012-10-31 04:49:02 GMT from United States)
Centos-5.8
http://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS5#head-a2fd35a09ebf776661ab0f1288762329bb64209c :
"We intend to support CentOS 5 until Mar 31st, 2017 The current plan is this:
Full Updates (including hardware updates): Currently to Q4, 2012
Updates ( including minor hardware updates): Up to Q1 of 2014
Maintenance Updates Q1, 2011 - Mar 31st, 2017
Full Updates
During the Full Updates phase, new hardware support will be provided at the discretion of CentOS via
Update Sets. Additionally, all available and qualified errata will be provided via Update Sets (or
individually {and immediately} for Security level errata.) Update Sets normally will be released 2-4
times per year, with new ISOs released as part of each Update Set. In the 5.x numbering scheme, the .x
is the number of the Update Set.
Maintenance Updates
During the Maintenance updates phase, only Security errata and select mission critical bug fixes will
be released. There will be few, if any, Update Sets released."
75 • Jesse sais... (by Ika on 2012-10-31 12:28:41 GMT from Spain)
"...after the installation of Ubuntu was complete, I found that logging into my main account would cause my mouse pointer to be set to a [...] large size"
Because I have some problems with my eyes, I'll be very pleased and happy if it might be a possibility to establish a large size pointer as default . OK, I can customize it very well in KDE, and in this DE it works perfectly. But I usualy am istalling other DEs, especialy Xfce and Enlightenment. These DEs also permits customizing the pointer But... opening a window (System settings, browser, file management...) inside these windows the pointer turns at default size (and type) from the login screen, that is the default.
Other DEs or WMs, like LXDE, Fluxbox, Afterstep, IceWM, etc., works with the default pointer, so it's very hard to me.
Is it a way to establish a large size pointer as default for the OS? And if, how?
76 • @62 Jockey (by DavidEF on 2012-10-31 14:58:29 GMT from United States)
Jesse,
Jockey was not on my system by default. I don't know why it would be, if the functionality was present elsewhere, which it is. I searched for it in the dash using every variation of "Additional Hardware" I could think of, as well as "Jockey" and finally opened up Synaptic and installed it. However, if I'd known the functionality was there under a different heading, I would not have cared to install Jockey. It wasn't Jockey I wanted, it was just the Nvidia proprietary driver I needed. I don't see any value in change-for-change's-sake, especially without being told there was a change, and how the new thing was made to work.
The part I really didn't like was finding out that I had to manually install something (Linux kernel headers), when the expectation was that the GUI "tool" would get it done for me. Even that wouldn't have been so bad, if I'd been told up front, instead of making my system unusable first, and then having to search online for a solution.
77 • NVIDIA drivers (by Jesse on 2012-10-31 15:12:17 GMT from Canada)
@76
That is interesting, because when I installed Ubuntu 12.10 on the box with the NVIDIA video card all I had to do was add the appropriate driver. I didn't need to get any additional headers or anything, the GUI tool took care of everything.
78 • Debian will NOT change the default GUI (by TobiSGD on 2012-10-31 16:40:28 GMT from Germany)
From the release notes of their Beta 3 release: "Most of GNOME fits onto CD#1 again (network-less installation).
LXDE and Xfce now live on separate images."
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2012/20121018
The GUI on CD#1, the default GUI, is still Gnome 3.
79 • KDE 3 distros (by Barnabyh on 2012-10-31 20:15:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
RedHat 6 derivatives are good to use with Trinity DE. It's (mostly) very stable and covers a wide range of the old KDE software, even kasablanca FTP, but not Kftp or Kbear. After the latest update to 3.5.13.1 even Ktorrent does not crash anymore. So yes, it's not perfect but very close if that's what you want, but has a few more bugs than the original.
80 • @77 Nvidia Drivers (by DavidEF on 2012-10-31 20:47:13 GMT from United States)
It must have been a glitch in my install. Maybe my combination of hardware is still a bit odd for mainstream linux. Like I said, I've had issues in the past, just not like this. Good to know my experience is not necessarily typical. Although, it's obviously not a one-time event either, because I found my answer in a forum where someone else had the same issue, and they ended up installing kernel headers to get the Nvidia driver to install. Chalk one up to YMMV, I guess.
81 • Nice to see Wayland hit 1.0 (by Michael on 2012-10-31 23:34:31 GMT from United States)
It's great to see Wayland maturing. After all, Xorg is pretty old and tired.
It's nice to see cool things happening in Linux. Things like wayland, systemd, firewalld, etc.
Would be even more cool things if not for so much wasted developer talent spent maintaining packages for 323 unique Linux distros. It's not like there is any shortage of application bugs needing to be fixed. But no.....everyone wants their own distro instead.
Message to developers: "Put the pride away and team together to make at least one of those distros good enough to compete with Apple or Microsoft (I am talking desktops here)."
82 • Ubuntu Has Lost It! (by Former Ubuntu User on 2012-11-02 10:27:33 GMT from United States)
Against my better judgement to keep my mouth closed, I think Ubuntu is starting to lose it. Not just in rankings but lose respect from it's users due to corporate mentality and a seemingly twisted desire to spy on it's users. Their desire to watch people might not be so bad if Canonical were just a little more up front an honest about it. But they aren't and that just doesn't sit very well with me as I'm sure it probably doesn't with most other people.
And now that I see the review for Ubuntu 12.10 is even worse than 12.04 I'm not even going to try it. Too bad too. Cause for a while it looked as if Ubuntu was finally going to rise up and become a real alternative to Windows or even OSX. And although Microsoft might not admit it, I'd be wiling to bet that Ubuntu and company (Xbuntu, Kbuntu, Lbuntu, etc.) was why Microsoft decided to finally be a little more honest about pricing on Windows 8 too. We saw a similar reaction when it came to web browsers so it's clear to me that Microsoft was a little worried about Ubuntu. But if you're Steve Balmer you can probably relax now that Ubuntu 12.10 has clearly flopped. I just hope it isn't a signal to start tightening the UEFI noose!
So it is with a heavy heart that I am now turning my back on Ubuntu. It's not like there aren't other distros probably more deserving. But for me, I think I'll either be switching over to the French Magia project, back to the German SuSE project, or more likely just back to basics with good old Debian. And that's because Ubuntu just may have just shot themselves in the head.
And if you're a Linux gamer, pay close attention to what happens next. It's not likely going to be very pretty.
83 • Other 'buntus (by thezebeanzmarkz on 2012-11-02 17:28:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've been using Xubuntu on my main PC at work for over a year now, and I think it's brilliant. It's got everything Gnome2 had but even better. I find Unity over-engineered, inflexible and less stable than XFCE. And I hate how you can't change from orange and purple, without using an unattractive theme which doesn't integrate well into the UI.
At home I've got Lubuntu on my laptop. It's attractive, minimalist and functional.
The Ubuntu base is great so use another 'buntu if you don't like Unity...get the best of both worlds.
84 • Ubuntu bad? No...but the honeymoon is definitely over! (by DavidEF on 2012-11-02 19:37:31 GMT from United States)
I've seen worse mistakes and errors-in-judgment in the past, both in Ubuntu, and in other distros and other projects. We've made it through some bad junk. The latest Ubuntu is not super-cool, but I don't think it is quite ready for the junk-heap. I think a lot of people expect to be impressed with greatness in every release, and that puts pressure on the devs. They are the "Wow Me" crowd, looking for something new to crow about.
After a project or distro has been around a while, it seems the "Wow Me" crowd starts falling by the wayside, moving on, and leaving a trail of judgment and complaints. I'm proud to say I'm not of the "Wow Me" crowd. I like new stuff, but I prefer familiarity just enough that I won't leave when times get hard. Having said that, it says a lot that I didn't hesitate to move to linux from Windows XP after first hearing about it, even though it took so much time and effort to find one that would even install or boot on my hardware - which happened to be Ubuntu.
When I hear (or read) people saying they'd move back to Windows because linux is so bad, or they are moving to another distro because "Ubuntu sux" I have to just tell myself that you pick your poison. Every OS is a compromise in some way. No OS is perfect. I choose linux in general, and Ubuntu in particular because it is the best option for me. Anything else would be less functional for me personally. I happen to LIKE Unity too. So, even though I've tried other DE's, I just don't feel as comfortable using them.
I believe we should speak up when the distro we use on a daily basis has some problem - a regression, a security issue, a privacy policy we can't stomach. But, if you're just moving to another distro or back to Windows, instead of sticking it through, why waste your time and ours with complaining? What good does it do? Why should the devs fix your issue, if you're not there to appreciate it?
85 • Opensuse 12.2 (by pfbruce on 2012-11-02 21:10:58 GMT from United States)
Please disregard any blank messages that have arrived. i can be stoopid at times.
I like Suse but:
1. Thunderbird amost always leaves thunderbird-bin as an orphan/zombie process. This requires closing the process before Thunderbird can be restarted. This may be a Mozilla problem, but it only shows up on Suse.
2. My web cam freezes immediately on starting any webcam program. It is NOT restricted to Cheese. Fedora has fixed this. Why cannot Suse?
3. I cannot shutdown Suse without (almost always) getting a kedeinit4 segmentation fault (11). No amount of heroics will allow me to file a bug report. There is always not enough information. Something as simple as shutdown should be easy to fix?
4.Opera does not follow cursor on startup. This may be an Opera problem. I does not happen with Fedora. But, on that machine, it opens on the desired screen. If it is an Opera problem, I take back some of the bad thoughts I am having about Suse.
5. What in the hell is the matter with Apper?! Sometimes it works like a dream. Other times it churns, and churns, and churns. To the point where I have to shut it down. In fairness, this occasionally happens with Fedora also. What does Mageia do, that Fedora and Suse cannot figure out?
Rant over. I still like Suse, but I am starting to see why Ubuntu fanatics are desperately trying to find something in their favorite distro to like.
86 • Finding Ubuntu alternatives (by ange on 2012-11-02 22:34:22 GMT from Hungary)
@85 I think that Fedora is a good startpoint for distrohoppers like me and others who trying to divorce from *buntus. But the default Gnome Shell UI is so... inconstant. You never know what will happen with extensions and themes with next subrelease.
So I think that Xfce is a good environment and Fedora provide a strong base. Let's try Fedora Xfce Spin.
87 • Kubuntu (by Mac on 2012-11-03 22:51:29 GMT from United States)
I have been using Kubuntu 12.04 since it came out and Kubuntu 12.10 since alfa 2 daily build with out much trouble and 12.10 without trouble. So maybe it is a hardware thing. This is on desktops. Laptops still mepis 12 b2.
Have fun
Mack
88 • comment (by francisco on 2012-11-03 22:56:42 GMT from Brazil)
olá,tudo bem? tem uma excelente distro da bulgaria chamada rainos linux!!! já testei varias distros baseadas em ubuntu e essa é muito especial na minha opinião,muito bem elaborada... espero que voces possam publicá-la e asssim oferecer apoio ao projeto. obrigado...
89 • Ubuntu's flaws (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2012-11-04 08:45:59 GMT from Luxembourg)
I have said this many times: The main issue with Ubuntu is that they prioritize schedule over quality control and therefore the system will always be intrinsically buggier than others. The second problem is, in my humble opinion, that they prioritize bling-bling over performance and stability. Third problem is that they impose their Steve-Jobs-wannabes' "visions" rather than promoting community-driven practicality and rationalism. That is why it will always be a hobbyist operating system and not a professional-grade operating system. That is why Canonical will never be a successful company. That, and the fact that the only successful operating systems are those that come pre-installed. Now, which serious company is going to choose a buggier system if they can get a more stable one for the same price?
90 • Ubuntu's flaws (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2012-11-04 08:57:38 GMT from Luxembourg)
Let me give you just one example: Last summer we went to buy ice-cream. We always go to the same place. They have a few LCD screens with a slide show loop showing their products. Now, suddenly, the slide show stops and an error message pops up informing of a system crash. It was Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. What a shame, I thought, they install Linux to perform a single very simple task and it crashes for no good reason, just like Windows. Just imagine if it were a mission critical machine...
91 • Ubuntu 12.10 Desktop Review by Jesse Smith (by Jaes Michaels on 2012-11-04 13:56:01 GMT from United States)
“Let's put such [privacy and security] concerns aside for a moment and look at the various forms Ubuntu takes.”
Not to put too fine a point on this matter: you certainly did put this serious topic aside... but “not for a 'moment’.
You just never got back to discussing this newest, latest, and most serious and disturbing aspect of Canonical’s treatment of its users.
You can almost (but not completely) be forgiven for not completely covering this topic, given the extremely extensive list of faults, problems, and errors you did so admirably and objectively report.
.
I, like Jon Wright (comment #50), have never seen a suggestion to take a pass on the latest Mint offering and revert to the previous version (I have seen some thinly-veiled suggestions along these lines re other distros, however). But, in this case, we’re discussing one of the--supposedly--more popular and widely-used distros.
40 • Ununtu 12.10 (by David McCann on 2012-10-29 22:37:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
“I review new distros at LinuxQuestions.org and I've just finished (thankfully) with Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xununtu. Of current distros, there are 30 I've rated at 7/10 or better: that's 30 reasons not to use Ubuntu.”
A complete mystery to me is why Ubuntu users continue to put up with this type behavior (sic) from Shuttleworth and Canonical (be certain to give ‘credit’ where it’s due). This modus operandi has been in evidence for a very, very long time, now.
You want Ubuntu? You want Ubuntu done correctly, and with your best interests at heart; with no one TELLING you what your best interests are? You want Ubuntu built to the highest possible quality? You want Ubuntu devoid of extraneous, resource-sapping fluff? So did I and so do--apparently--many, many others--NOW.
That’s why you need to switch to Linux Mint. You’ll never read reviews such as this again.
92 • @89 & 90 Well said! (by John Dough on 2012-11-04 14:35:38 GMT from Canada)
Totally agree, and I have seen 'Windows based' gas station and variety store devices crash like the Ubuntu loaded one you saw, what a laugh, hilarious. Best advertising ever for Microsoft, drive up to a gas pump and see an ad screen with a BSOD!
93 • @92 (by Joe Blow on 2012-11-04 23:52:50 GMT from United States)
A number of years ago I was on a transatlantic flight they needed to reboot the entertainment system - a verbose reboot came up - the OS was redhat. What does this mean? Nothing ... every OS I have used has required a hard reboot from time to time, Windows before XP more than most, but Linux is not immune.
94 • @93 Re: Rebooting, or lack of (by John Dough on 2012-11-05 00:05:12 GMT from Canada)
When was the last time Windows ran for over a year without rebooting? My point was/is, Linux is WAAAAAAAAAAY more resilient than Windows. That's been my experience too, not just my example. Here is another argument, I do next to zero hours maintenance on Linux, spent zero dollars on third party protection, so which is the better deal? An OS that costs a fortune in hours and money and requires more frequent rebooting, or one that doesn't?
95 • @94 (by Jaes Michaels on 2012-11-05 01:37:59 GMT from United States)
Glad to see that John weighed in with a much-overlooked virtue of Linux, when done properly. It has long been understood that having to re-boot a Linux system is almost unheard-of, both on the desktop/laptop and on the server. Having to re-LOAD a Linux system? Keel-haul the bastards; flog them through the fleet; and then hang what’s left from the nearest and highest yardarm.
I do not like it when commenters start personalizing (sic), but I’m going to violate one of my own rules in order to help make a point; and name names, to boot:
I bought my wife an Asus EeePC running Xandros Linux, when it was first offered for sale in 2007. She’s used it ever since, until switching to a larger machine a year ago, on which I loaded Ubuntu 9.04 for her (I wanted her to have a rock-solid, very nice experience, what with her being a computer-indifferent and VERY intolerant person). Neither Xandros nor Ubuntu 9.04 has ever needed to be re-booted or re-loaded. And yes, the EeePC is still used. The 9.04 machine gets flogged daily by someone who “...doesn’t know what she’s doing...” (her words; NOT mine).
I have used Linux Mint on a daily basis, since 2009, on two different machines. Never had to re-boot or -load those either. Through Ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10, I never had to re-boot/load.
The entire Linux community has missed a real opportunity in not getting this message out to all those millions whose first attempt at fixing problems is to re-load the OS (I fully understand that, given the OS I'm obviously referring to, in most cases this is the ONLY solution).
The message all along should have been “It’s not supposed to be that way; there’s no reason for you to EXPECT things to be that way; there’s no reason for you to put up with this! LOOK AT LINUX! CONSIDER LINUX!
(Interestingly enough, this admirable quality of Linux was one of the points drilled into me/us as Linux/UNIX student(s) at college a few years ago)
John, I would like to respectfully add that the situation of not needing protection (third-party, or otherwise), is not going to last forever. As soon as Linux becomes (not if, but when) the OS of choice, you're going to see serious security attacks and problems from the bad guys. It's already started. I'm sure you've heard the term 'rootkit'.
Just be prepared; don't be complacent.
Live long; be critical; prosper.
Number of Comments: 95
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