DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 473, 10 September 2012 |
Welcome to this year's 37th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! This has been another exciting week in the world of Linux. The openSUSE project has release version 12.2 of its distribution. The new release comes after a two-month delay to fix bugs and add polish to the latest version of the popular distro; time will tell if the new release was worth the wait. Another fascinating release comes from the Qubes OS project which attempts to improve desktop security through the increased isolation of different tasks. Read more about both of these distribution releases below. Also in this edition of DistroWatch Weekly we talk about Debian's most popular architecture and which versions of the Linux kernel receive long-term support, and we also link to a talk regarding Google's custom desktop distribution. Plus we are happy to announce that the Slackware project is putting together a vast collection of knowledge with the help of its community members - get all the details below. This week Jesse Smith tells us about a book which tries to teach people how to use the Linux command line; read on to find out how well the book works as an educational tool. As usual we will take a look back at the distributions released over the past week and look forward to those soon to come. Finally, do not miss our roundup of reviews, podcasts and newsletters from all around the web. Until next time, we wish you a pleasant week and happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (38MB) and MP3 (35MB) formats
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Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Meeting, exploring and mastering the command line
I used to work at a company which had its own custom pens. You know the sort with the company's name and address or website printed on them? These pens were unusual in a number of ways. For instance, they were pointy at the top, rather than at the bottom, they had no visible click-top, no visible cap and no apparent seams. When handed one of these pens people would often spend a minute or more turning them around, pressing parts of them, trying to turn pieces, trying (in vain) to figure out how to expose the writing tip. The trick, oddly enough, was to grasp either end and simply pull, causing the pen to "break" into its two halves, the cap and the pen proper. Once the pen's secret was known it was a simple matter to open it and writing with them was a dream. They were fine, high-quality pens, easy to hold, hard to damage and they lasted for ages.
The reason I bring up these company pens is because people tended to fall into one of two camps when exposed to them. Either the person would become frustrated and toss aside the pen or they would see the puzzle as a bonus, an interesting quirk and (possibly) a source of amusement when new people came into the office. I suspect when you read the above description of the pen you had a reaction similar to one of those two groups. Is the pen needlessly complex in a world of clicky-tops and Bics, or is the beauty, strength and quality of the pen enhanced by the puzzle? Chances are if you fall into the latter camp then you will enjoy the book I wish to share with you this week, "The Linux Command Line" by William E. Shotts, Jr.
Exploring the Linux command line can be a difficult journey for several reasons. Command line interfaces are not as discoverable by trial and error as their graphical counterparts, plus a lot of commands are typed in short hand making their function difficult to understand at first glance. "The Linux Command Line" is the ideal guidebook into the world of the Linux (and UNIX and BSD) command line. The book tries to be distribution (and even operating system) neutral as much as possible, though the author is up front about the examples contained in the text being tested on Fedora and some commands or scripts may produce slightly different results on other systems. The book is divided into four main parts: an introduction to the command line and shells, configuring the shell, performing common tasks such as backups and searching for files, and the final section is on writing scripts to automate tasks.
Something which grabbed my attention right away is the book has two tables of contents. The first one lays out the sections listed above and gives a brief overview of the chapters. The second, more detailed table, gives an almost page-by-page description of what is covered and this makes the book an easy-to-use reference. Let's say we want to look up the section on pausing and resuming system processes, we can go to the first table and find "Chapter 10: Processes", then go to the detailed table of contents and find "Chapter 10: Processes -- Controlling Processes ... Stopping (Pausing) a Process, page 102". Also to aid in navigation of the book there is a detailed index at the back of the text allowing the reader to find specific examples of commands based on their name. This is helpful if we have heard of a command called "grep" and want to see how it is used. The index lets us know there are three pages with "grep" examples on them.
Let's move on to the heart of the book which, as previously mentioned, is divided into four parts. "The Linux Command Line" is laid out as a text book in that it begins very simply, laying a basic foundation and then slowly building up. We start off with a few commands to move into a directory and see what is in that directory. We learn how to find out what part of the file system we are looking at and then we move on to displaying files, creating directories and making links. Each chapter slowly expands upward and outward from the previous chapter making for a very gentle learning curve. The book begins by assuming we know very little about the command line or even Linux in general and, by the end of the text's first part, we are able to tackle some regular expressions, browse through files, redirect output, manage links and manipulate permissions on files and folders.
The second section of the book teaches us a bit more about the environment, how to customize it and how to use the vi text editor. The third section is where we get into the interesting stuff, processing and sorting large amounts of text, managing packages, configuring our network connection, transferring files between computers and making use of secure shell connections. Part 3 also covers compiling software, performing backups and searching for specific files. The book's final section deals with scripting and automation. Being able to create a script to perform tasks is a culmination of everything up to this point and the book does a fine job of introducing us to getting input, setting up basic logic steps, using loops and managing variables.
"The Linux Command Line" appears to be written with two styles in mind. It functions both as a step-by-step teacher, taking us from the bare bones basics and slowly walking us through until we're capable of performing complex tasks (and then automating them). The book also works well as a reference. After a person has read through the book once it's easy to flip to the index, find a specific command or concept and review that piece on its own. The text, while it builds from the ground up, does so in a way that allows each sub-chapter to stand on its own. I really enjoy and admire the skill with which these separate modules are fit together like building blocks, complimentary, but independent. Another thing I like is that each concept, each command introduced, has an example. We are not simply told about a command and its functionality, we are shown. The example text in each chapter gives us the whole picture with the console prompt, the command entered and the resulting output. It makes following along with the examples easy and makes it feel as though the author is actually showing us something on his screen, rather than just talking about it.
Another thing I appreciated about this book is that, even after over a decade of using the Linux command line, the text was still able to present me with some new material. Perhaps not so much the commands themselves, but in the method of problem solving. I think we all develop habits, certain ways of looking at problems and methods of solving them. "The Linux Command Line" demonstrates many solutions for common problems and I was happy to find the author took different (but equally effective) approaches to problems I had seen presented in other text books and tutorials. Even if you've been around the command line for years this book may still be able to introduce you to new methods of solving your system administration puzzles. And one final thing I like about "The Linux Command Line" is the occasional aside. I think most of us, when first learning how to use the command line, wonder, "Why would they design it that way?" This text adds a few foot notes here and there which give the reader some perspective as to why certain conventions and traditions exist. These additional notes help round out the experience and, I found, put some of the quirks of the Linux operating system into context.
Obviously with a name like "The Linux Command Line" we can assume this book is aimed squarely at the GNU/Linux crowd (and it is). However, this book should also be useful to people running other operating systems in the UNIX/Linux family, including those running any of the BSDs, OpenIndiana or OS X. A few of the commands won't work the same way and the naming conventions for devices won't always be the same, but a majority of the book will still be relevant.
Really, I don't think I have anything negative to say about this book. It starts off light, builds nicely on itself, works as a reference guide and a large portion of the text is dedicated to examples and little projects where the reader can learn by doing. Warnings are given in sections where anything risky is attempted, which is rare, and concepts are explained in context. The book is practical and covers a good deal of ground and does so without veering off topic (which would be easy to do, especially in the networking section). Whether you are just starting out or looking for a refresher course, I think you will enjoy "The Linux Command Line", I certainly did.
- Book Title: The Linux Command Line
- Author: William E. Shotts, Jr -- Copyright 2012
- Length: 480 pages
- ISBN-10: 1-59327-389-4
- ISBN-13: 978-1-59327-389-7
- Publisher: William Pollock
- Available from No Starch Press, Amazon.com and other booksellers.
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Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Slackware's new documentation project, Debian's most popular architecture, changes to Ubuntu's ISO images, look at Google's desktop
Fans of the oldest surviving Linux distribution will probably recognize the name Eric Layton, or at least his handle, "Nocturnal Slacker". He writes to us at DistroWatch with some good news for his fellow slackers. "The Slackware Linux Documentation Project is born! The project has the blessing of Slackware's BDFL Patrick Volkerding. It is currently being designed and staffed and is live now. It is using the DocuWiki wiki software. This is a worldwide, multi-language (English as primary) community project. Your help is needed. Please come join us in creating what we hope will be the largest single source of Slackware Linux knowledge on the Net." The new Slackware Documentation Project wiki is now up and running. People wishing to join the project should consider subscribing to the SlackDocs mailing list.
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For almost as long as 64-bit computers for consumers have been available there has been debate as to whether a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system is preferable. Proponents of 64-bit systems point to faster number crunching, access to larger amounts of memory and the availability of more registers. Fans of 32-bit systems will point out the lack of need in their lives for larger amounts of memory, the benefit of smaller packages and wider developer support. With this in mind it may be interesting to note that, for the first time, amd64 has become the primary architecture of Debian users in terms of number of submissions via the popularity-contest statistics. It is also interesting to note that amd64 overtaking i386 does not appear to be a result of i386 usage declining, but rather of amd64's install base slowly increasing, Graphs and exact numbers are available on the Debian popcon website.
Still on the subject of the world's largest GNU/Linux distribution, the Debian project has announced the availability of the second beta of Debian Installer for "Wheezy": "The Debian Installer team is pleased to announce the second beta release of the installer for Debian 7.0 'Wheezy'. Improvements in this release of the installer: espeakup - fix voice path according to multi-arch switch, This fixes the failure to switch languages; grub-installer - fix /proc mounting code to use linprocfs on GNU/kFreeBSD, this fixes the failure to find a GRUB device on those systems; mountmedia - fix hang due to trying to mount extended partitions; Linux kernel - updated from 3.2.21-3 to 3.2.23-1; netcfg - list available ESSIDs, improve support for s390 and s390x; silo - fix ext4 support, fix timeout-related crashes on sparc (Niagara - sun4v); udev - fix qcontrol/LED/beeper support on arm, fix persistent-net-generator on s390 and s390x; win32-loader - switch to the 'Joy' theme; default to the graphical installation for all kernels...." Interested beta testers can download the new Debian Installer images from the project's download page.
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The Canonical development team is looking at streamlining the installation ISO images they offer. The ISOs currently on the chopping block are the small "Alternative" CDs which feature a flexible text-based installer and the 32-bit Server edition. To insure users still have access to the same install-time features the Canonical developers are in the process of merging LVM, RAID and full disk encryption support into the standard Ubiquity installer. While fans of the Alternative images will feel a loss, this means increased flexibility for people using the more commonly used Desktop edition of Ubuntu.
It's no secret that Google uses a lightly customized version of Ubuntu for their in-house development. The special spin, called Goobuntu, is essentially Ubuntu LTS with some minor tweaks. Thomas Bushnell, a member of the group which manages and distributes Goobuntu internally, recently took time to talk about Google's desktop strategy. Bushnell made some interesting comments about desktop environments, alternative operating systems and why the company chose Ubuntu for their desktop computers: "Bushnell was asked why Ubuntu instead of say Fedora or openSUSE? He replied: 'We chose Debian because packages and APT [Debian's basic software package programs] are light-years ahead of RPM (Red Hat and SUSE's default package management system.]' And, why Ubuntu over the other Debian-based Linux distributions? 'Because its release cadence is awesome and Canonical [Ubuntu's parent company] offers good support.'"
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Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
The Linux kernel and long-term support
Looking-for-a-kernel-of-support asks: Could you tell me what Snowlinux 3 long-term support Linux kernel 3.2.0 LTS is? The information about Snowlinux states that Snowlinux 3 is Debian-based, but I couldn't find an LTS kernel in Debian.
DistroWatch answers: The Snowlinux website is a bit vague on a few points. The website mentions that Snowlinux is based on Debian 6 "Squeeze", but claims to come with the 3.2 version of the Linux kernel. This seems odd as "Squeeze" shipped with the 2.6.32 version of the kernel. The Snowlinux team also has Ubuntu editions which can make navigating the world of Snowlinux and its packages a little confusing.
I suspect what the Snowlinux team has done is import the Linux 3.2 package from Debian's Backports repository. The Debian developers maintain a repository of newer packages which users of Debian's Stable branch can optionally access. This would allow Snowlinux to use packages which are, strictly speaking, built for Debian Squeeze, but which do not appear in the standard Debian repositories. As for the LTS label on the Snowlinux kernel, some Linux kernels are quietly marked for long-term support, even if the packages are not labeled as such in the repositories. If you visit the kernel.org website, where the vanilla Linux kernel source code is available for download, you will find there are several entries listed as "stable". The older stable kernels are long-term support kernels and are usually the ones chosen for inclusion in distributions with longer release cycles. Red Hat, Ubuntu and Debian typically use kernels that are long-term support kernels. You can find a helpful table with the history of LTS kernels on Wikipedia.
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Released Last Week |
Slackel KDE-4.8.5
Dimitris Tzemos has announced the release of Slackel KDE-4.8.5, a Slackware-based desktop Linux distribution: "Slackel KDE-4.8.5, installation DVD images, 32-bit and 64-bit are immediately available. A new wallpaper theme image is included in this release. Slackel 'current' includes the latest 'current' tree of Slackware Linux and the latest KDE 4.8.5 accompanied by a rich collection of KDE-centric software. The Firefox 15.0 web browser, KMail and KTorrent are the main networking applications included in this release, followed by Akregator, an RSS reader for KDE, Kopete, the KDE instant messenger and more. Wicd is used for setting up your wired or wireless networking connections. In the multimedia section, Bangarang 2.1, Clementine 1.0.1, K3b 2.0.2 included." See the full release announcement for additional details.
SystemRescueCd 3.0.0
François Dupoux has announced the release of SystemRescueCd 3.0.0, a live CD containing a large number of data rescue and disk management utilities, based on Gentoo Linux. What's new? "Added support for loading extra SRM module files (System Rescue Modules); added support for UEFI booting from the CD-ROM on x86_64 using GRUB 2.00 (efi.img); updated standard kernels to long-term supported Linux kernel 3.2.28 (rescuecd + rescue64); updated alternative kernels to long-term supported Linux kernel 3.4.9 (altker32 + altker64); the rescuecd kernel image has been renamed rescue32 for better consistency; configured isolinux to automatically use the 64-bit kernel if CPU is capable; automatically use 64-bit version of FSArchiver and memtester if CPU is capable; reorganized and updated isolinux configuration and help messages; updated e2fsprogs to 1.42.5, GParted to 0.13.1, Partclone to 0.2.50." Here is the complete changelog.
Qubes OS 1.0
Joanna Rutkowska has announced the release of Qubes OS 1.0, a Fedora-based security distribution for the desktop with a number of isolated domains implemented as lightweight virtual machines running under Xen: "After nearly three years of work, I have a pleasure to announce that Qubes OS 1.0 has finally been released. Qubes OS is an advanced tool for implementing security by isolation on your desktop, using domains implemented as lightweight Xen virtual machines. It tries to marry two contradictory goals: how to make the isolation between domains as strong as possible, mainly due to clever architecture that minimizes the amount of trusted code, and how to make this isolation as seamless and easy as possible. Again, how the user is going to take advantage of this isolation is totally left up to the user." Read the release announcement and visit the project's security goals page to learn more.
openSUSE 12.2
openSUSE 12.2 has been released: "Dear users, developers, and geekos around the world -- openSUSE 12.2 is ready for you! Two months of extra stabilization work have resulted into a stellar release, chock-full of goodies, yet stable as you all like it. The latest release of the world's most powerful and flexible Linux distribution brings you speed-ups across the board with a faster storage layer in Linux 3.4 and accelerated functions in glibc and Qt, giving a more fluid and responsive desktop. The infrastructure below openSUSE has evolved, bringing in mature new technologies like GRUB 2 and Plymouth and the first steps in the direction of a revised and simplified UNIX file system hierarchy. Users will also notice the added polish to existing features bringing an improved user experience all over." See the release announcement and release notes for further information.

openSUSE 12.2 - the default KDE desktop (full image size: 966kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Kiwi Linux 12.08
Jani Mosones has announced the release of Kiwi Linux 12.08, an Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution with many popular extras, such as browser plugins, media codecs, archiving tools, etc, included by default: "After exactly two years of neglect I released a new version of the Ubuntu remix with Romanian, Hungarian, German and English languages included by default. It is based on Ubuntu 12.04.1, and keeping in line with the traditional goals of the project, it targets Linux newbies who find some of the standard Ubuntu applications lacking or who are taken aback by anything too unfamiliar. It also targets lazy people who would otherwise change about the same things on a vanilla Ubuntu install. So it features the Classic GNOME 2 desktop, Chromium, VLC, Pidgin, Flash, multimedia codecs and the rar and p7zip archive format handlers." Read the rest of the release announcement for a few more details.
Ubuntu Christian Edition 12.04
Jereme Hancock has announced the release of Ubuntu Christian Edition 12.04, an Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution designed for Christians, as well as churches, Bible study schools and other religious organisations: "Ubuntu CE 12.04 has been released. What's new? Built of Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS; system management (dconf tools, Synaptic package manager, BleachBit, gAlternatives, gnome-tweak-tool with advanced settings, ubuntu-tweak); daily usage (WINE and WineTricks, Google Chrome, VLC, MyUnity, terminator, Nautilus scripts for better file management); Bible software (Quelea, Bibledit, Verse, Xiphos, OpneLP). Customizations ranging from artwork, themes and icons along with the PPAs added to enable more artwork installation. UCE also comes with the award-winning DansGuardian web content filter configured to block pornography and other questionable content." See the release announcement for more information.
Network Security Toolkit 2.16.0-4104
Ronald W. Henderson has announced the release of an updated build of Network Security Toolkit (NST), a Fedora based live DVD with a good collection of open-source network security applications: "We are pleased to announce the latest NST release: version 2.16.0-4104. This release is based on Fedora 16 using Linux kernel 3.4.9. This is a interim release which includes all of the NST and Fedora 16 package updates since 2012-02-27 rolled into a fresh ISO image. If you are building your own NST yum repository or have a subscription to the NST PRO yum repository, you may not need this ISO image as you should be able to simply 'yum update' you NST system(s). The NST project team has worked with the CloudShark folks to facilitate uploading and viewing network packet captures generated by an NST system to either CloudShark.org or a CloudShark Appliance. A new CloudShark Upload Manager tool was created and embedded within the NST WUI to accomplish this." Visit the project's home page to read the full announcement.
PCLinuxOS 2012.09 "KDE FullMonty"
A new maintenance release of the PCLinuxOS "KDE Full Monty" edition, the project's Linux distribution with a special desktop layout and a large number of applications, is ready: "PCLinuxOS KDE FullMonty 2012.09 is now available for download. This is a 32-bit DVD image which can also be installed on 64-bit computers. KDE FullMonty is a regular PCLinuxOS KDE installation with special desktop layout and many applications and drivers pre-installed. FullMonty applies a new concept: activity-focused virtual desktop layout, which is designed to address typical user needs and tasks. KDE FullMonty features: Linux kernel 3.2.18, KDE 4.8.3 with many applications; all kinds of drivers and applications to deal with any kind of external hardware, like cell-phones, scanners, printers, webcams, TVs, Bluetooth devices, iPods, radios, etc; six activity-focused virtual desktop layouts, each with task-related desktop launchers of popular applications." See the brief release announcement and read the more detailed product description's page for further info and screenshots.
Arch Linux 2012.09.07
Pierre Schmitz has announced the availability of a new Arch Linux installer image, version 2012.09.07: "As is customary by now there is a new install medium available at the beginning of this month. The live system can be downloaded from the download page and used for new installs or as a rescue system. In addition to a couple of updated packages and bug fixes the following changes stand out: first medium with Linux kernel 3.5 (3.5.3); the script boot parameter works again; when booting via PXE and NFS or NBD the ISO image will be copied to RAM to ensure more stable usage; the live medium contains usb_modeswitch and wvdial which allows to establish a network connection using an UMTS USB dongle. Furthermore the newest versions of initscripts, systemd and netcfg are included." Here is the brief release announcement.
Chakra GNU/Linux 2012.09
Anke Boersma has announced the release of Chakra GNU/Linux 2012.09, an updated build of the project's distribution featuring the new KDE 4.9.1 desktop: "The Chakra project team is proud to announce the second 'Claire' release. After the release of 2012.08 well over a thousand packages were updated, including a new sound stack, updated Poppler, OpenJPEG and OpenAl group, KDE 4.9.1, latest Calligra and LibreOffice. Because of all these changes, and to get back to having a release schedule that follows closely to the schedule KDE is using, 2012.09 is following the first 'Claire' ISO image rather quickly. It also gives us a chance to fix some issues found in that first release. Chakra is making the switch to PulseAudio as default with this release." See the complete release announcement for more details and a brief list of main features.
PureOS 6.0
Marc Poirette has announced the release of PureOS 6.0, a desktop Linux distribution with GNOME 3 based on Debian's "testing" branch: "PureOS 6.0 is a multilingual live CD/USB based on Debian 'testing' with GNOME. Supported locales: FR (France, Belgium, Canada, Switzerland), EN (USA, United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Ireland, India), others (Brazil, Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey). Main features: Linux kernel 3.5.3 and GNOME 3.4.2 (GNOME Shell + GNOME Classic). Internet: Chromium 21.0 with Flash player. Multimedia: GNOME MPlayer. Graphics: Evince and Eye of GNOME. System: GParted, smxi/sgfxi scripts, scripts for modules management: activate, debs2lzm, debs2lzm-file, dir2lzm, lzm2dir and find2lzm." The release announcement includes the full package list and a list of download mirrors.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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Around The Web (by Jesse Smith) |
Latest reviews
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Latest podcasts
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Latest newsletters
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DistroWatch.com News |
New distributions added to database
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Jondo Live-CD. Jondo Live-CD offers a secure, pre-configured environment for anonymous surfing and more. It is based on Debian GNU/Linux. The live system contains proxy clients for JonDonym, Tor and I2P.
- Mozillux. A live Linux distribution designed to provide Mozilla software, such as Firefox and Thunderbird, to the end user without requiring any installation.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 17 September 2012. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • CLI book (by AliasMarlowe on 2012-09-10 08:53:30 GMT from Europe)
Thanks for the review of a CLI book, Jesse. Those of us who came up the "hard way" mostly assimilated our CLI knowledge in small increments over the years. Nowadays, with kids, it's good to have books which can systematize that knowledge and present it in a clean and comprehensive way.
2 • yum x apt (by Sergio on 2012-09-10 10:00:37 GMT from Brazil)
I don't think that Google person has ever seriously used rpm/yum. I won't say it's light-years ahead of apt but it's certainly superior (easier to use, more flexible and much more features).
3 • RPM vs APT (by DavidEF on 2012-09-10 12:10:31 GMT from United States)
I've used apt tools almost exclusively myself, mainly the Synaptic gui package manager, a little apt-get, and a sprinkling of others. However, with the limited experiences I've had with rpm tools, I can say I prefer to stick with what I know (apt). In other words, if there is any superiority of rpm vs apt, it is cleverly hidden from the casual user. It certainly isn't enough to get my attention. If asked, I would say apt is superior, but I couldn't tell you why, except I personally like it better. See what I mean?
As for specific applications, I am strongly in favor of Synaptic, and other gui package managers which are similar. The "app store" style installers seen in several distros nowadays get in my way more often than not. Others are hard to figure out (not discoverable). Synaptic is simple (enough), powerful, and elegant.
4 • APT vs. RPM (by Tourniquette on 2012-09-10 12:23:32 GMT from United States)
I can understand what they're saying about apt, but I think a lot of it comes down to userbase. Personally, I've used most of the major package managers and prefer the Pacman manager because of its speed. But apt definitely has the upper hand as far as the number of distros, and therefore people, using it and putting in the time to maintain it.
5 • DEB vs RPM (by Omari Norman on 2012-09-10 12:24:07 GMT from United States)
Google guy has no idea what he is talking about.
"The days have passed in which Debian's package management wiped the table clean. Today, various approaches exist, each with their own special features and annoying caveats. When people tout their favorite package management system and diss the other available solutions, they effectively admit their own ignorance of the matter . . . A common belief among Debian supporters seems to be that the DEB format is largely superior to RPM, which is simply false (and certainly one of the reasons why Debian's reputation is not always positive). In fact, the RPM format is actually more feature-rich than DEB, but the additional features are not commonly put to use. Nevertheless, in terms of the capabilities actually put to use, the two formats are just too similar to compare."
Source: "The Debian System," page 200, by Martin F. Krafft (a Debian developer!)
6 • Way to start a religious war... (by David Hughes on 2012-09-10 12:39:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
The guy from Google could have thrown in a reference to them using Vim because it's way better than Emacs while he was at it. ;-)
Such talk is quite daft; I personally (slightly) prefer working with apt-get, but I recognise that that's probably got something to do with the fact that Ubuntu was the first Linux distro that I used. If I find myself working on Red Hat or OpenSUSE I find that I can work productively using their package management systems.
The only ones that come to mind that definitely don't make me a happy bunny are Slackware and Gentoo. [But if you enjoy Gentoo, you're doing it wrong. Probably. ;-) ]
7 • Arch, Archbang and Bridge (by Alex on 2012-09-10 13:02:36 GMT from Sweden)
We have Arch at #7, Archbang at #35 and Bridge Linux at #55, and both Archbang and Bridge are Arch distros, but while Archbang was made from Arch installation iso, Bridge Linux was done by remixing Archbang. So, whould we call Bridge Linux an Arch derivative or Archbang derivative?
For example, Solus OS is from Debian, while Mint 13 is from Ubuntu, so what would Bridge Linux be, an Arch derivative or Archbang derivative?
8 • openSUSE and SlackDocs (by Barnabyh on 2012-09-10 13:02:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Downloaded the KDE i686 iso the day it came out and have to say I'm impressed. I tried Suse often over its lifespan of various incarnations and name changes but was never quite happy enough with it, due to crippled players and media libraries compiled with important playback options disabled, and due to a general feeling that package management took too much time.
12.2 is a top release in my view, and I may even keep it on my new external hard drive as boot option. This is a very polished, and fast distribution, Or it may just be that now that I have less time available I appreciate well and long-term supported distris like RHEL clones and openSUSE better.
SlackDocs is a great project certainly worth of attention, and it coming into existence completely surprised me. I thought one of the requirements for being a slacker was to be able to dig through the internet and use Linuxquestions.org or the relevant newsgroup ;) Bit like you can't be an MA student without knowing how to use the library. But Arch, and Gentoo before, have shown how good such a centralized resource can be.
A good week to everyone, Barnaby
9 • Who needs APT or RPM when you can have... (by jaycee on 2012-09-10 13:25:26 GMT from Australia)
Slackpkg. Seriously, once you get used to having control over exactly what packages you have installed on your system, it's hard to go back to dependency-based package management. That said, the idea of using a package manager without dependency resolution essentially assumes you're starting with a complete operating system - I certainly wouldn't like to try building Slackware up from a minimal install! (For that, of course, Arch and Pacman serve the purpose.)
10 • "The Linux Command Line" book (by Joe H on 2012-09-10 13:51:25 GMT from United States)
Note that the book is released under a Creative Commons license, and is available for free download in PDF format at...
http://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
11 • - (by Simon Pedersen on 2012-09-10 14:23:54 GMT from Denmark)
For anyone bothered by the termination of alternate CD's, there is always the Minimal isos located at:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
12 • @10 TLCL download (by DavidEF on 2012-09-10 15:30:34 GMT from United States)
Thanks Joe! I got my copy.
13 • openSuSE 12.2 (by Sam on 2012-09-10 15:30:37 GMT from United States)
Was fast and zippy and ALMOST replaced my trusty 11.4 installation. Unfortunately, after three days use and one or two rounds of "updates" it refuses to boot on my system (an old Thinkpad R61i circa 2006/7). I ran into a similar issue on the same laptop with Fedora 17 - installed, ran once, then an update killed it. I suspect this is an issue with a newer linux kernel and I have to reset the kernel boot parameters, but c'mon.
Looks like I'll stick with 11.4 for the foreseeable future - when official support ends in November I'll just switch my main repo over to the Evergreen Project and try to squeeze more months out of the distro. I suspect some distro with "legacy" support is on my horizon early next year...
14 • Damn Sam... durned ole java again (by Jordan on 2012-09-10 16:09:57 GMT from United States)
I keep having to go running back to Windows with my tail between my legs because Pogo and other sites keep tweaking their games code. The latest java update often fixes it for a while, and lo and behold I log in one day some games won't fully load. The site sometimes brings up an error page saying to clear cache and temp files etc. Never works.
Happens once on a while on Facebook games as well, but not as often as Pogo. Talking to the Pogo people in chat brings up canned responses and once in a while the mention of "security."
What I want to know is: why does any and all versions of Windows do the job and linux distros don't (by and large)? It's been the same for many years.
15 • Java and web pages (by Jesse on 2012-09-10 16:35:34 GMT from Canada)
@14: Since both Pogo and Facebook use a web browser (and, in Pogo's case, Java) as a base, then it shouldn't matter which operating system you use. Their sites should work exactly the same on Windows, Linux or OS X as long as you're using the same web browser and an up to date installation of Java. If something breaks then their website is probably trying to ID your system and breaking something as a result. Properly coded web pages and Java applets don't care about the underlying OS.
16 • 10 • "The Linux Command Line" book (by Joe H (by Sven on 2012-09-10 16:46:15 GMT from Sweden)
Thanks for the info, Joe. I've already downloaded it.
17 • @15 (by Jordan on 2012-09-10 16:48:55 GMT from United States)
Thanks for that explanation. It sounds plausible.. but "...it shouldn't matter which os..." is way, WAY opposite of what we're experiencing (I say "we" because it's an ongoing issue and is in the Pogo and other forums).
All I have to do is snatch my W7 hard drive, whip it in and all, ALL games work at Pogo. Switch back to my spare hard drive with SuSe 12.2 on it (same with other distros) and voila: no Monopoly Slots, etc.
VectorLinux has been an exception most of the time. I do admit to going back to it most often (NO: I am not a VL fan boy etc and I don't work for them etc). The version numbers of the java and flash in VL are the same as in other distros. Now that is another question: why some work and others don't? And again, always works in Windows 7 (and Vista). ???
18 • 7 • Arch, Archbang and Bridge (by Alex (by Sven on 2012-09-10 16:50:19 GMT from Sweden)
Interesting info by Alex, but the DWW states "Bridge Linux is an Arch Linux derivative that includes a GUI and standard applications. It comes in four separate editions with a choice of GNOME, KDE, LXDE or Xfce desktops."
Most probably maybe all arch distros could be called arch based. It would've been interesting, if Linux Mint Maya could say it is based on Debian, but cannot use Debian repos.
19 • @9 (by bonzoso on 2012-09-10 17:03:44 GMT from United States)
exactly, my skill set doesn't allow me to tolerate dependency checking
20 • @15 Pogo and Java (by corneliu on 2012-09-10 17:04:23 GMT from Canada)
Not true. There are different Java Virtual Machines, one for each operating system. All these JVMs implement the same interface but they implement it differently. There are unwanted inconsistencies between them.
21 • Slackware Linux Documentation Project (by V. T. Eric Layton on 2012-09-10 17:36:00 GMT from United States)
Jesse,
Thanks for the mention of the project. I just wanted to comment that I'm just one of many participating in this community effort. Credit for the idea and the implementation must go to Nicolas Kovacs and Eric Hameleers.
We currently have over 160 pages of data on the new wiki. The project also has permission to duplicate the new Slackbook, which is in beta at this time, in its entirety on the wiki.
There's still a lot of need for input, article submissions, and community support. C'mon over, Slackers. Be a part of this historic project from it's inception.
Thanks again, DW!
~V. T. Eric Layton AKA Nocturnal Slacker
22 • @20 (by Jordan on 2012-09-10 17:46:38 GMT from United States)
Thanks corneliu. The number on them looks the same to me, but if they are different in function then it must be Pogo site's fault for not being scripted for different operating systems. I keep thinking it's "linux vs the world." It looks like the Mac users in there complain too though (just noticed that today).
One of the Facebook games, "Pyramid Solitaire Saga," corrected in SuSe when I did an update on icedtea in the browser addons area.
23 • re 22 Java (by corneliu on 2012-09-10 18:12:26 GMT from Canada)
It could be Pogo's fault but IMHO it is more likely that it's Sun's/Oracle's fault. Java was created to solve platform fragmentation, to make software run the same way on any JVM (compile once run everywhere). The problem is that operating systems are so different from each other, it is impossible to get the same behavior on all JVM. For simple applications Java can achieve its goal. But when the Java application has to deal with system calls, advanced graphics, sound etc., then the issues start popping up. Speaking of different implementations, IcedTea is a good example. Sun did not have the sole ownership of the Java code, so some parts of Java could not be open sourced. RedHat implemented the parts that could not be open sourced. And this became IcedTea. So IcedTea is a JVM that is different from Oracle's stock JVM.
24 • OpenSuse - Currently Fastest Linux? (by Bob on 2012-09-10 18:12:41 GMT from Austria)
Haven't installed it yet, but judging from feedbacks this one might be as good as it gets. Fewer complaints regarding stability as compared to previous versions. Any related comments appreciated... Tks.
25 • @23 (by Jordan on 2012-09-10 18:29:57 GMT from United States)
Man that info about why java was created is good to know, to say the least. I had no clue! Thank you.
Some of us are pretty dopey about all this.. just wanting to move off the Microsoft stream and stay with linux. :)
26 • 23 continued (by corneliu on 2012-09-10 18:33:18 GMT from Canada)
What I meant with RedHat was that Sun could not open source all Java bits, so RedHat came up with the missing parts in order to have a completely open source JVM.
re 24. Not sure about Suse's speed, all distros have about the same speed but for sure the best KDE integration. And the Suse Studio is amazing. I wish Fedora had something like that.
27 • Java (by Jesse on 2012-09-10 18:33:38 GMT from Canada)
>> "Not true. There are different Java Virtual Machines, one for each operating system. All these JVMs implement the same interface but they implement it differently. "
That is exactly what I was saying. The whole point of using Java is to provide a consistent interface across multiple platforms. If a site's code isn't working properly across OSes then their is either something quite wrong with their code or with the installation on the client's machine (buggy version, out of date version, not integrated with the browser...)
28 • re 27 Java and Suse (by corneliu on 2012-09-10 18:48:56 GMT from Canada)
OK, I didn't want to offend you, I just wanted to highlight that even properly coded applications can misbehave due to the JVM. I had this idea, If you plan a Suse review, I think it would be nice to review the Suse Studio instead of a regular Suse install.
29 • CLI Review (by Rick on 2012-09-10 19:16:43 GMT from United States)
Thanks Jesse for that review. I am greatful for any additional knowledge about using the terminal effectively.
And Thanks to Joe H for the pdf link. (I actually became engrossed in reading it before I realized I was still online taking care of some other projects!)
30 • APT vs YUM (by SilentSam on 2012-09-10 20:07:06 GMT from Canada)
I've ran across RPM dependency hell before, but that was due to the number of 3rd party repositories I had added to YUM in attempts to make my Fedora far less free (and therefore more productive for me). I honestly think that RPM / YUM get a bad rap because of the lack of certain packages in the main Fedora repos, thus sending people to 3rd party repositories for their non-free needs.
In Fedora the SELinux defaults bothered me far more than YUM ever did, plus I thought Yumex was pretty spectacular once installed.
31 • ZDNet Goobuntu article (by René on 2012-09-10 21:11:48 GMT from Anonymous Proxy)
Perhaps it was not his intention, but it read as if Thomas Bushnell was comparing APT to RPM, rather than comparing dpkg to RPM or comparing APT to Yum or Zypper.
32 • @13: Evergreen 11.4 (by cba on 2012-09-10 21:21:41 GMT from Germany)
Yes, Evergreen 11.4 support is slowly beginning: http://lists.rosenauer.org/pipermail/evergreen/2012-September/thread.html openSUSE really needs an Ubuntu-like LTS release and this time they will try to accomplish this goal with openSUSE 11.4. Evergreen 11.1 went out of support after around three years, but openSUSE 11.2 ist still supported by Evergreen. So 11.4 is number three. Moreover, it is planned to use the SLES 11 SP2 3.0 kernel in Evergreen 11.4 (this SLES kernel is freely available in OBS). First tests showed that this SuSE kernel works flawlessly with openSUSE 11.4.
33 • yum and selinux (by corneliu on 2012-09-10 21:33:05 GMT from Canada)
Yum seems very polished to me. For example if I have an rpm already installed and I update, it doesn't download the whole rpm. It checks which bits of the old rpm have changed, then it downloads only the different bits and rebuilds the old rpm with the new rpm. This is really nice for bandwidth, especially if you have a bad internet connection. Does apt or any other package manager do that? I don't know much about security, but if I am behind the firewall of the router, what's the point in having selinux running? To me selinux seems more annoying than helpful. Am I wrong?
34 • @33 (by cba on 2012-09-10 21:56:57 GMT from Germany)
Yes, you are totally wrong, but only with regard to servers. :-) And remember, security is not only a firewall, it is a whole security concept, and therefore, your strategy to physically separate the firewall (on your router) from the desktop system it protects, is a very important step towards better security. So, yes, disable it on your desktop, when selinux is really "annoying". But I do not recommend it. Another strategy would be to ask Nvidia and Google and game developers to make their software fully compatible with selinux. If "selinux" begins to pop up and shows you "problems", these are real. It is no joke.
35 • @33 (by René on 2012-09-10 22:18:36 GMT from Germany)
You are speaking of DeltaRPM support. This is achieved with Yum via the presto plugin (Yum's extensibility via plugins is great). The fastestmirror plugin can also speed up the downloading process. These plugins are available for RHEL derivatives as well.
openSUSE/SUSE's package manager supports DeltaRPM functionality as well.
36 • RPM and DEB (by TobiSGD on 2012-09-10 22:55:10 GMT from Germany)
It seems to really be confusing for people to differentiate between the package formats (RPM and DEB) and the package management systems (APT, yum, zypper, ...). Things like delta support for downloads are neither advantages of RPM nor DEB, they are advantages of the package management systems (I don't know about zypper, but both yum, via plugin, and APT, via debdelta, support this). I don't know why a developer does make such a mistake like comparing APT to RPM, but it does simply not work this way (have a look at PCLinuxOS, RPM packages with APT package management).
Anyways, since we all know that the best package management is that from Slackware discussions like that are not really worth the time.
37 • slackware package management (by jon on 2012-09-11 01:46:49 GMT from United States)
#36 "Anyways, since we all know that the best package management is that from Slackware discussions like that are not really worth the time"
What evidence do you offer to back up this rather bold statement?
38 • Voyager 12.04 and honesty (by Sven on 2012-09-11 01:52:07 GMT from Sweden)
Voyager 12.04 is based on Xubuntu and was released in May 2012. It is one of the best Xubuntu derivatives around, much better and faster than Mint XFCE for example. The most interesting fact of this distro is that it asks for donations, but not for its developer, but for Xubuntu!
That's honesty! The developer likes Xubuntu enough to make a derivative out of it and asks his users to donate to Xubuntu! All others ask for themselves. He is a Frenchman.
39 • apt vs. yum (by Kevin Burrus on 2012-09-11 01:57:13 GMT from United States)
I agree with the second comments listed above by Sergio. Thomas Bushnell of Google is just being fancy for the article but no way apt is "light years ahead" of rpm. I use both Ubuntu and Fedora and openSUSE on the same machine and I've used Debian many times. Apt and all its variations, especially, aptitude is supreme over all, but Yum comes in a close second. Also, Zypper with openSUSE is just as good if not better than yum as well, or at least its more user friendly in my opinion. But now with Yum-Extender, yum is comparatively equal to its Debian counterpart. Kudos to the developer of Aptitude because that application alone is phenomenal in its dependency resolution, especially when doing distribution upgrades within Alpha or Beta phases (in a safe manner).
I rarely comment here on Distrowatch but the hyperbole of the Google guy's comment just bugged me enough to get that off my chest. Thanks.
40 • @37 (by TobiSGD on 2012-09-11 02:02:27 GMT from Germany)
"What evidence do you offer to back up this rather bold statement?"
Damn it, I forgot to add a smiley to that statement. But it is rather simple, at least for me: No dependency resolving, therefore no problems with meta-packages and such crap, a really simple package format and a straight-forward package management system. Have a look at the package format and the tools to manipulate packages (makepkg, installpkg, upgradepkg and explodepkg), hard to get more KISS than that.
41 • CLI, yum/apt, SELinux, openSUSE 12.2 (by Caitlyn Maritn on 2012-09-11 03:17:11 GMT from United States)
First, nice to see a review of an up-to-date command line reference. The one I've had on my shelf for years is "Linux System Commands" by Patrick Volkerding and Kevin Reichard, which is excellent but is getting to be a bit dated. Oh, almost everything in there is still accurate but newer technologies like SELinux just aren't covered.
SELinux is really vital security nowadays. It's also really not nearly as hard to learn as people think. Here's a tip: instead of disabling it set it to permissive mode. That way SELinux will block absolutely nothing but log everything. Take the resulting log, which will show you how SELinux reacts to your typical use of your system, and build your policy from that. The end result is that you'll have a policy which won't get in the way of your work but which will stop an intruder from doing things to your system.
Finally, the whole yum vs. apt or rpm vs. deb debate is a bit silly to me. Both are excellent, mature, well maintained package formats and packaging systems. Both work extremely well. Neither is immune from "dependency hell" if the repository maintainers and/or packagers do their job poorly. In practice "dependency hell" has all but disappeared in any case.
#30: The way to avoid conflicts when using multiple repositories is to install the yum-priorities plugin and to rank your repositories. That will eliminate conflicts and generally prevent any dependency issues. I use it on both servers and workstations and it really does help.
#5: Good quote. I'll point to delta rpms and to the ability to rebuild an srpm for a different environment as two real time savers available in rpm based systems with no real Debian equivalent last time I checked. That isn't a negative reflection on Debian packages, but it does show that for an experienced systems administrator there are some really nice tools in the rpm system. I personally really like the way you can basically put everything you need to determine how an rpm is built in a single spec file.
Having said all of that, I've also built Debian and Slackware packages and there is nothing at all wrong with either of those systems. Slackware packaging, even with Slackware Apt (slapt-get, gslapt, slapt-notifier) added and dependency checking added, which is commonly done in most Slackware derivatives, is relative feature poor. However, it works very quickly and very reliably.
Finally, I'm just starting to play with openSUSE 12.2 as I will be working in a SLES/SLED shop most of the time starting next month. So far this looks like a very good release.
42 • @13 openSUSE on R61 (by LAZA on 2012-09-11 05:49:20 GMT from Germany)
I did an fresh installation of Edubuntu 12.04.1 on my R61 for my wife to do some homework for tutoring here students and it works great (even Edubuntu is very bloated vs. Xubuntu). So try this and get free three extra years out of the old ThinkPad!
43 • openSUSE 12.2 (by zykoda on 2012-09-11 11:46:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Installed from a downloaded and burned i586 DVD (#8 mentions i686 but I did not find that!). onto an older 1GB RAM AMD sempron 2500+ with many distros on board. Tried to Chainload the root partiton resident GRUB2 boot loader from the primary Debian etch GRUB MBR...result MBR stage1 cleaned to zero. Reloading Etch GRUB stage1 (446 bytes) retrieved the situation and ability to multiboot/chainload again. Found the install quite slow and the KDE desktop positively sluggish with the OOTB settings. Things much crisper without all the superfluous bling. Yast is showing its age. Without some fresh input I see openSUSE in decline and fit for retirement. SUSE 8.0 was my intial distro which has sslloowwllyy evolved into 12.2. Alternative DE not tried yet. MMMV.
44 • Fishing for Complements for Slackware! (by Transform Humanity on 2012-09-11 13:21:59 GMT from India)
@36 Slackware doesn't need you to be fishing for complements for them! ... at least not this way.
45 • @44 (by TobiSGD on 2012-09-11 19:40:01 GMT from Germany)
Nice that you know what Slackware needs and that you are obviously the compliment police. May be the next time try not to tell people what to like and what not, also may be next time ask yourself about humorous or ironic comments.
46 • SElinux and such. (by Anonymous Coward on 2012-09-11 22:57:20 GMT from Spain)
I don't really like SElinux, as it seems to me too complicated for what it offers. I think OpenBSD maniacs have a point when they say that, when such security solutions get in the way and are designed as an addon, your admins are more likely to turn them off than not. Of course, using default policies or pre-designed ones is easy, but building your owns is a pain. I find the documentation for doing so sucks.
I tend to favor GRsecurity, because it comes with PAX (which includes proteccions against common buffer attacks) and is damn_easy to set up. I have heard good words for other solutions too.
However, these solutions are designed as afterthoughts and are not natural to use, or over-complicate the administration of the system in not-so-complex scenarios. You have to test the systems far better to find out if your security measures are thrashing the running software. A (very) bad SElinux/GRsecurity/RSBAC/whatever policy is likely to DoS your system more quckly than any platform of Vigilante Cyberwarriors.
47 • Added security (by Jesse on 2012-09-12 11:07:54 GMT from Canada)
I tend to agree with post 46. SELinux has a few problems. One being that it feels like a bandage rather than a fix. The other being that it is such a pain to learn and use compared with other security solutions. Which is why people tend to turn it off rather than trouble-shoot it. I've heard it argued that SELinux is more powerful than, say, Apparmor, but the latter is so much easier to learn and set up that, for most people, it's a much more attractive solution.
48 • Java issues (by BluPhoenyx on 2012-09-12 16:13:11 GMT from United States)
Another option for those willing to put in a bit of effort. Use WINE with a Windows based browser/java combo. Once it's up and running there should be little need to change things. If necessary you could keep different setups available for different sites which offers some minimal security if each setup is in it's own WINE configuration/drive/etc...
Cheers, Mike T
49 • @13 VAIO laptop from 2004 (by AliasMarlowe on 2012-09-12 21:05:55 GMT from Finland)
I suspect the problem is with Suse or the laptop rather than with the kernel itself. I'm posting this from an 8-year-old Sony VAIO VGN-A117S laptop, which is running fine with Xubuntu 12.04 and it has never had an issue with updates. It started its Linux career with Ubuntu 5.04 "Hoary" which was replaced by a beta of Ubuntu 5.10 "Breezy" on which everything worked well enough that its XP partition was removed. It has been regularly updated ever since, but sticking to LTS releases since 10.04, along with our other PCs and newer laptop.
50 • mepis (by Mac on 2012-09-13 00:10:15 GMT from United States)
Welcome back to my hard drive mepis 12 b2 looks good to me and thanks for all the hard work.
Have fun Mack
51 • openSUSE 12.2 - WOW fast! (by Andy Prough on 2012-09-13 01:04:28 GMT from United States)
This distro is just flying. This is really amazing to watch. I'm running it on a dual-core laptop with 4 GB of ram - about 2 years old.
52 • @51 Flying vs. flying (by Microlinux on 2012-09-13 08:55:42 GMT from France)
If you consider "two years old" is "old" and "4 GB of RAM" is "low RAM", you should take a peek at my standard desktop (Slackware 13.37 + Xfce 4.8.3 + tons of addons) running on a ten-year-old Pentium IV 1.0 GHz with 512 MB RAM. My battered Panasonic Toughbook has roughly the same specs, and I use it daily for work, with the same setup. You'd be surprised, I guess.
53 • @51 (by tim_c. on 2012-09-13 11:22:53 GMT from Germany)
openSUSE 12.2 flies also on my old PIV computer, in contrast to other Distros like Debian Wheezy and also in contrast to older openSUSEs. So it is very obvious that openSUSE "optimized" something. But what software part? Maybe the Glibc? What tweaks does openSUSE 12.2 use?
54 • @52 (by Andy Prough on 2012-09-13 13:11:40 GMT from United States)
I don't doubt that you can get Slackware+xfce optimized to run really well on your system. If I wanted to run something light and fast, I would prefer xfce also. But I'm shocked at how fast openSUSE+KDE is - this should be an absolute resource hog.
55 • @51,52,53,54 (by notsure on 2012-09-13 13:16:22 GMT from United States)
I don't use opensuse, but my guess is they are using a recent (4.8+) KDE, which is probably your main reason for flight.
56 • Bodhi (by Jimmy Carl Black on 2012-09-14 02:20:08 GMT from Germany)
> Jeff Hoogland has announced the release of Bodhi Linux 2.1.0, the latest > update of the Ubuntu-based distribution featuring the Enlightenment 17 > desktop: "I'm happy to release to everyone our first scheduled update > of Bodhi Linux's 2.x.y branch - version 2.1.0.
I'm glad some development teams still use the phrase "I'm happy" or "We're happy" instead of "I'm proud" or "We're proud" when they're announcing a new release of their GNU/Linux distribution. Happiness is a much nicer sentiment than pride.
57 • @56 happy happy joy joy (by Jordan on 2012-09-14 16:57:30 GMT from United States)
Oh I agree. And if the dev is happy to help others with his distro, then people who feel "proud" to help others and say so might stop and think about why they're so proud. Of course one can be happy and proud at the same time. :oD
Meanwhile, I'm fixing to burn the Bodhi image and give it a go.. I miss the whole Enlightenment scheme and admit to not enjoying the new KDE that much anymore. Don't want to judge them all but even Gnome leaves something to be desired imo.
58 • @55 (by tim_c. on 2012-09-14 21:19:05 GMT from Germany)
No, openSUSE 12.2 could not fly if I would use KDE4 on this old PIV machine. I am still using KDE 3.5.10. openSUSE 12.2 is fast, but it is obviously not a "miracle", openSUSE did something every other distro could do also, new glibc, new kernel, some tweaks for a better desktop experience. But it is a real surpise.
59 • SuSe 12.2 (by Jordan on 2012-09-15 01:27:43 GMT from United States)
It is fast, but error messages when opening "my computer" and sometimes Yast. I did another install and the same stuff.. hmm.. hardware? This is a new HP Pavilion m7. The same install disk works better on my old Toshiba Satellite.
Well, I'm going to stick with it and put the Bodhi on the Toshiba. I like the "big" distro on this one; I'm going to read in the SuSe forums .. it is a very "substantial" feeling distro this SuSe. Big areas of configuration, etc.
I'll mess around with Enlightenment on the smaller laptop.
60 • @59 (by cba on 2012-09-15 21:29:49 GMT from Germany)
By the way, there are OBS repos with E17 for openSUSE 12.2: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Enlightenment:/Nightly/openSUSE_12.2/ It is quite stable and very lightweight and it will be released very soon.
Yast is a very powerful configuration tool which is available in every desktop environment, even on the command line. You can even configure e.g. an old serial mouse with it without knowing anything deeper about the Linux system. Yast is very valuable if something goes wrong.
The only "not so good thing" with openSUSE is that it is not "company-independent" like Debian, it is more like an upstream distro solely for SLES/SLED, although it is completely free. But maybe this will change in the future. The real good thing is that Attachmate decided a little time ago to let their engineers in Nuremberg work on their own unaffected by company decisions of people who do not really know free software.
61 • other e17 opensuse repositories worth mentioning (by RollMeAway on 2012-09-15 23:53:04 GMT from United States)
From the above link, go to "Parent Directory" (one level up), to discover e17 for other distros and older versions. http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Enlightenment:/Nightly/
Note: the entries appear OK for rpm based distros, but all deb based are incomplete. I can verify the Fedora_17 version worked.
62 • Important:Sabayon wiki (by Sven on 2012-09-16 04:50:13 GMT from Sweden)
A very interesting matter, mentioned in the Sabayon Wiki;
Reverse dependencies
Gentoo Reverse dependencies are a major drawback of Gentoo's current portage implementation: It does not take care of them at all at the moment. This means that you can uninstall packages needed by others without being warned about it. E.g. you can remove the x server package without portage warning you that kde (which you have installed as well) depends on it. This way you can actually break your entire system (e.g. by removing glibc).
Debian In Debian, reverse dependencies are taken care of by dpkg.
Arch Linux Also automatically removed when needed.
Looks like using Debian and its derivatives is safer for the users.
63 • Re: 62 • Important (...) (by Anon on 2012-09-16 13:51:13 GMT from Norway)
Sven wrote: "Arch Linux Also automatically removed when needed."
Not sure how to interprete that, but trying to uninstall (remove) glibc from my Arch system, I get:
[root@Adm /]# pacman -R glibc checking dependencies... error: could not prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) --> then a (very) long list of dependencies follows, ending in a new prompt.
Whatever you meant to say, there is NO automatic removal of needed dependencies in ArchLinux. The admin gets, not simply a warning, but an error message and the transaction is NOT carried out. This goes for ANY package needed by other packages.
If I misunderstood and you meant to say something else, my apologies.
64 • dangerous package removing (dependencies)... (by Jordan on 2012-09-16 15:58:00 GMT from United States)
Re post #62 about the reverse dependencies and the dangers of wrecking your system, it's about removal of packages. But then the word "safe" is used as if Debian based distros (the slowest in many cases I've noticed) can't be rendered insane by removing packages.
That would have produced a huge number of complainers using non-Debian distros.. I can't find much searching around. Perhaps some will speak up.
65 • Sabayon ATI video problem (by Roland on 2012-09-16 20:10:16 GMT from United States)
Booted Sabayon_Linux_10_amd64_Xfce.iso from thumbdrive, no problems, got audio working. Installed, booted, screen was a total mess. Reboot didn't help. Sabayon forums show quite a bit of that sort of thing. ATI HD3000 video controller on motherboard, it isn't that old or unusual. Beware!
66 • What's up with gnome 3 / Unity ? (by G-Linux on 2012-09-16 20:25:34 GMT from Canada)
What's up with gnome 3 / Unity ?
A LOT of people disagree the way Gnome 3 and Unity are developed and they just don't LIKE IT !
Even FEDORA that was a PURE Gnome Distro for many years, become to offer KDE desktop more and more in they new release...strange, isn't it !
The fact is that : Mint work on a project to build his own gnome 2 like (call ???) Mate desktop already exist Cinnamon already exit XFCE already exist ( very close to gnome 2 )
Gnome 3 / Unity are more like toys instead of a real desktops. (Some administrative or preferences options are missing)
So that's why MANY Gnome2 users switch to XFCE / MATE or EVEN KDE4 !
Not because Gnome3 / Unity and so on, are huge in RAM (Kde4 is huge anyway) , but just because they are not reliable for all days use.
So, Gnome / Unity... WAKE UP...or like Mandriva , die and let's develloper try a solution FOR YOU...If you cannot !
I am and ex-Gnome2 users now using KDE4 and MATE (a have 3 computers at home) and I'm very happy with them , beleive me !
KDE 4 is especially intelligent the way each desktop has his own menu !
If you reply to tis message :
1) Know what you're talking about (I builld some Linux from Scratch or sometime use Slakckware), so be a REAL Linux user.
2) Have at least a couple of years of experience with Linux (Like to know developer's and experienced Linux user opinions)
3) If you're newer from Windows, PLEASE, don't reply, you just don't know what you are talking 'bout, because you're certainly use Ubunutu or Ubuntu based Distro !
For the others , be patient, the good old Linux days will come back ... I hope !
Ciao !
Number of Comments: 66
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
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Archives |
• Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
• Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
• Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
• Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
• Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
• Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
• Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
• Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
• Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
• Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
• Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
• Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
• Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
• Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
• Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
• Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20 |
• Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
• Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
• Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
• Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
• Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
• Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
• Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
• Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
• Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
• Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
• Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
• Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
• Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
• Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
• Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
• Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
• Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
• Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
• Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
• Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
• Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
• Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
• Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
• Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
• Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
• Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
• Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
• Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
• Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
• Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
• Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
• Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
• Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
• Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
• Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
• Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
• Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
• Full list of all issues |
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Random Distribution | 
Damn Small Linux
Damn Small Linux was a business card size (50MB) live CD Linux distribution, based on Debian and Knoppix. After a 12 year break (from 2012 to 2024), the Damn Small Linux (DSL) project was relaunched. The distribution is now based on Debian and antiX with the goal of fitting on live media 700MB or smaller (in order to be usable in CD-ROM drives). Despite its minuscule size it strives to have a functional and easy to use desktop. Damn Small Linux has a nearly complete desktop suite, including web browsers, office software, an e-mail client, PDF viewer, media players, and FTP/SFTP client.
Status: Active
| Tips, Tricks, Q&As | Myths and misunderstandings: Wayland, Xorg and Mir |
Tips and tricks: Keep terminal programs running, using the at command, reverse OpenSSH connections |
Tips and tricks: Monitoring and recording user activity |
Questions and answers: Printing copies of local manual pages |
Questions and answers: The safety of software in distribution repositories |
Tips and tricks: Creating, removing, modifying, and ignoring aliases |
Tips and tricks: Basename, for loop, dirname, aliases, bash history, xsel clipboard |
Questions and answers: Moving the /home directory to another partition |
Tips and tricks: Konqueror & Kate make an excellent remote admin team... and a killer casserole |
Questions and answers: Alternatives to GNOME 3 |
More Tips & Tricks and Questions & Answers |
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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Star Labs |

Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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