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1 • DSL (by greg on 2012-07-23 10:30:14 GMT from Slovenia)
An interesting piece of news is that DSL might get a reboot. Author is planning some changes to it. And hopefully an update. DSL is really interesting solution for older mashcines but it's a bit old and since it wasn't updated possibly also insecure.
2 • Arch Linux Installer (by linuxuser on 2012-07-23 10:58:56 GMT from Greece)
It's a surprise for me that the beautiful and stable installer of Arch Linux is no longer present in the 2012.07.15 "netinstall" CD image. I hope that the nice installer will be back in a future snapshot release.
3 • No menu installer for Arch? (by Willie Green on 2012-07-23 11:06:47 GMT from United States)
Attaboy guys!
Let's make Arch even more difficult to install.
Maybe one of these days you can become Gentoo or Linux from Scratch.
4 • DSL (by Neal on 2012-07-23 12:13:54 GMT from United States)
Though there is no mention of a return of DSL here, I did see that on the new forum on the DSL site.....A welcome back is in order! About time something non Ubuntu or debian based....And geared for older machines....not everyone is using an i5 or higher.
5 • Re No menu installer for Arch (by Scott on 2012-07-23 12:16:08 GMT from United States)
As I understand it, sad to say, despite Arch's current popularity, there was no one to maintain the current installation menu framework, so it's been dropped for the moment. There's an excellent chance, with their active community, that someone will now pick it up. Or, maybe not, maybe like the old Gentoo, it will just rely upon its documentation. Either way, for the more experienced user, it's not horribly difficult, just a bit more time consuming, and, from what I've seen of Arch over the years, there's a good chance that it will be improved as time goes on.
The general impression I get from the forums is that the ones in charge don't care too much about Arch losing popularity. This has benefits to those who like what it is--one sees other distributions working so hard to please the newcomer that they start getting in the way of the more experienced.
6 • Re No menu installer for Arch (by Willie Green on 2012-07-23 12:32:28 GMT from United States)
Well I certainly hope somebody in their community updates the installer.
They better understand that a menu installer isn't just a convenience for the uninitiated. More experienced users don't like wasting any more time on an installation than they have to either.
7 • review (by Fewt on 2012-07-23 13:05:33 GMT from United States)
Jesse - thanks for the review! We do know that packagekit is junk, a member of my team is actively working on changes to yumex to replace the Add / Remove software component.
We are also looking for volunteers to help clean up our comps metadata and do some of the other similar work around the project if anyone is interested. :)
We do have lots of improvements that aren't in Fedora though - like GNOME 2.
bahahaha XD
8 • Arch linux (by Leon on 2012-07-23 13:31:45 GMT from France)
Why did Arch release this "distribution release?"
If it is that popular, why can't they maintain a simple installer. is Arch becoming Gentoo or are we going back to 1990?
9 • Opensuse (by Kailash on 2012-07-23 13:42:10 GMT from India)
Any idea why OpenSuse is not present in list of expected release? It used to be there a while back.
10 • DSL back? (by Barnabyh on 2012-07-23 13:54:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
That would indeed be welcome. I always found it to fit my needs better than Tinycore or SliTaz, and the latest Puppy Slacko update is unstable, at least here.
Short of customizing Arch to this extent, and that's a lot of work in comparison, DSL would be the best.
11 • Linux Installations (by Mike Adams on 2012-07-23 14:26:47 GMT from United States)
My greatest concern about 95% of the Linux distributions I've looked at (and I've looked at quite a few) is the fact the installers for them rarely take into account the fact that many users are either unschooled in hard drive partitioning lingo and procedures or just a bit timid in making changes to their hard drives. What most people need is an installer that handles everything yet still gives the hard-core users the opportunity to express their inner need to control everything. So far, the only installation programs I've encountered that do that are Ubuntu and Linux Mint. They are easy to use, and they're great for the non-technical folks out there (like me). The other distributions would do well to follow their example. If they had, I might be using some of them right now.
12 • Arch & older machines (by OldTimer2 on 2012-07-23 14:37:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
Arch is a great operating system, but they tend to give out the wrong vibes, making things harder isn't the way to make Linux universal.
A simple installer like the one in AntiX, MEPIS or even PClinuxOS is the smart way to go, if you want more Linux users and greater appeal, wearing a hair shirt is not.
Arch is great for older machines, but doesn't help itself by not widening its appeal.
13 • Fuduntu (by Sam on 2012-07-23 14:47:49 GMT from United States)
A while ago I spent some time dual-booting Fuduntu and Kororaa Linux (back when both were spiraling away from their Fedora parent). I found Fuduntu a much more stripped-down, bare metal version of Fedora with some "ease of use" added - namely multimedia codecs. Fuduntu was my first encounter iwth the Jupiter power management system, so maybe I'm giving the distro too much credit for innovation as later I was able to install Jupiter on both Ubuntu and Mint.
I stopped using Fuduntu after a few hours - the developers didn't design this distro with me or any researcher in mind. As a GIS user, I found they not only didn't include ANY GIS software in their repositories, they didn't include many of the necessary base components for GIS and scientific computing that have been part of the Fedora/Red Hat ecosystem.
Not sure who they're aiming for, but it is obviously a subsegment of the Fedora/Red Hat kind of user.
14 • @2,3,5,6,8,12 Arch installer (by mandog on 2012-07-23 15:09:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
So if you have a problem with the scripts then make a shiny new one or maintain the old one. While the devs do a very good job in maintaining Arch Linux, they don't get paid and its a rolling release so if you are competent that means you only install once ever. Even a new machine only needs dd to transfer, they don't see the installer as a problem or even a opstickle, If you can install Arch Linux you can in theory maintain your own setup or cheat and install Archbang.
15 • Fuduntu (by claudecat on 2012-07-23 15:16:22 GMT from United States)
Seems to me that Fuduntu's target audience is netbook and low-power laptop users along with those that like gnome2 but want reasonably up to date packages otherwise.. This distro excels at power management - the jupiter app is not merely for display control and is something that sets Fuduntu apart from others (the app was written by fewt after all).
Also worth mentioning is the quality and responsiveness of the forum - I've requested packages and they appear in testing literally within hours. It may not cater to everyone's needs, but for what it does, Fuduntu is unique and serves its purpose well.
16 • Fuduntu (by RayRay on 2012-07-23 15:23:40 GMT from United States)
Fuduntu shouldn't be compared with Fedora, perhaps they should just change the name and avoid the confusion.
It looks great and works well for a newer distro. Eventually they may have to get away from Gnome 2 but as long as they have the osx type of panel to launch they won't have much of a problem using Gnome 3.
Jesse I know you love Fedora but it's a distro that is pretty buggy and not newbie friendly. Fuduntu would not have been necessary if Fedora were more than a test bed for Red Hat.
About openSuse, I hope that the delay is because they are releasing a rock solid release and not releasing something that is really not ready. There last release was very good and they have one of the best deployments of KDE4.
DSL is incredible I hope that it really comes back.
17 • Re: Arch Linux Installer (by pouar on 2012-07-23 15:31:57 GMT from United States)
@2,3,5,6,8,12,14 just use dhclient to setup the network connection then download the ArchLinux Installation Framework with pacman.
you could also read this
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide
18 • Getting the boot (by Emery on 2012-07-23 15:35:53 GMT from United States)
Funny, but whenever somebody tells me I "have nothing to worry about", that's when I REALLY start worrying.
19 • Fuduntu (by David McCann on 2012-07-23 15:42:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
The striking point about Fuduntu for me is their caution. Rolling release can so often mean software versions that seem to have escaped rather than have been released, while new distros often seem to try to include more software than they have the time to check. The Fuduntu repository is small but perfectly formed: this is for users, not hackers.
Why Sam should expect it to provide for scientific computing, I can't imagine. When you see a distro that defaults to Google Docs for word-processing, that should tell you that it's for home users.
Getting the packages listed under categories is a matter of some patient volunteer labeling each one! In the meantime, there's a classified listing on the web-site.
One legacy from Fedora (apart from Anaconda and lumbering old gpk) is the excellent set of configuration tools. Compare system-config-services to Ubuntu's BUM, for example.
I have no connection to the Fuduntu team; I'm just a reviewer who gave it 9/10 and recommended it for non-geek home users, especially with laptops.
20 • Re 19 (by bert barten on 2012-07-23 16:08:07 GMT from Netherlands)
I agree to david. I have installed Fuduntu a week ago. Before that I tried Windows 8 preview, but got all the time errors. Then I decided tot use Fuduntu. Last year I tried it also, but got several errors. As a distrohopper I try regularly other distro's. See my blog:
http://bertbarten-distrohopper.blogspot.nl/
In this week that I use Fuduntu I haven't any problems. Everything works well and I continue it for a while till the moment that I have to hop to an other distro. I read recently about Voyager Os a candidate for my next blog.
21 • Steam (by Dan on 2012-07-23 16:08:44 GMT from Canada)
I think it's excellent news that Steam is attempting to move into the Linux world. I've never supported Steam in the past, but now I'll definitely support them for supporting Linux users. A welcome treat, and hopefully a sign of things to come.
22 • Fuduntu (by Alexander Krebsson on 2012-07-23 16:25:58 GMT from United States)
I also found Fuduntu a pleasure to use, except it is quite possible to freeze up my old dual core Gateway laptop (2 gigs ram) just by using a web browser with lots of tabs open. The same laptop is more stable running LinuxMint in contrast. I am not a power user really. I primarily use my laptop for web and multimedia and some remote desktop work.
23 • Re: 19 (by Sam on 2012-07-23 17:26:18 GMT from United States)
"Why Sam should expect it to provide for scientific computing, I can't imagine. When you see a distro that defaults to Google Docs for word-processing, that should tell you that it's for home users."
Why would I think that? On the ultra-newbie friendly Ubuntu I can apt-get install gis-workstation gis-statistics r-cran gretl pspp and get a pretty decent set of research applications. Nobody designed Ubuntu for the geospatial science noob, but the ability to simply add software is a trademark of Linux.
Is Fuduntu designed for the casual home user, probably. But why drop core components of Gnome that make it dependency hell to try installing something as basic as the Gnome Scientific Libraries?
24 • RE:State of Arch, Fuduntu and such. (by Eddie on 2012-07-23 17:58:03 GMT from United States)
Arch: The people who develop Arch really don't care if it's popular or not. Saying they don't have anyone who can maintain the installer is plain bull. They don't feel they need one. There was never a lot of work put into the installer anyway. They just want their Gentoo type crowd and want to keep their computer nerd status. Someone said that even experienced linux users have better things to do than to muddle through an install process, and that is correct. Saying that you will only have to install once because it's a rolling release is just ridiculous to say the least and a lie for the most part. Rolling releases are not immune to problems and breakages. We should not be sad for Arch Linux in any way because they are right where they want to be. I have installed the last release of Arch and while it is a good distro the walled garden approach they take will not fare well in the long run.
Fuduntu: There's not a lot to say about Fuduntu. I do agree with another commenter that mentioned they needed a name change. I've never really liked the name and I never really understood why they could not come up with a better one. Anyway they are aimed at the lower powered systems. They could do well in the Linux community. Soon tho they will have to go with something other than Gnome 2. After all that is like beating a dead horse. Several other projects have done the same thing. That is getting away from Gnome 2 and have not gone to Gnome 3 or any other high demanding environment. I wish them the best of luck.
25 • Sam @23 (by Fewt on 2012-07-23 18:01:31 GMT from United States)
Sam, we haven't dropped it, we have simply never carried it. When we forked, we decided that we would only carry what the core team needed plus common requests from the community. We maintain many of the things that were requested, within reason of course. We don't have the resources the other big distributions do so we only carry things that are actively used and have an active maintainer.
You can install those packages on Ubuntu because Canonical has 200 people actively working on the distribution on payroll and thousands of others in the community actively working on their product as well.
Chances are there is at least one maintainer for all of those software packages you need over at Ubuntu.
Our entire team is only ~12 members strong, and only half of us are active at any given point in time. An even smaller subset focuses on package maintenance. We can handle the current package set just fine, but when you expect something like 'gis-workstation gis-statistics r-cran gretl pspp' you probably aren't taking into consideration all of those packages dependencies which could range from 1-2 to 30. All of which would have to go under active maintenance for those 5 requested packages to be "maintained" properly.
All of those packages also have deeper requirements, storage; replication; etc. Usually not a big deal, but some packages are quite large and when you have 40,000 people downloading them for an update it can use quite a bit of bandwidth.
If we had the bottomless pocketbook of a billionaire to throw at us we could do a lot more, but we don't currently have one of those available at Fuduntu. haha! :)
26 • arch installer (by hm on 2012-07-23 20:10:42 GMT from Germany)
the arch menu-installer is gone for the moment and as a consequence, when installing arch, you have to understand what is going on "behind" that installer.
Anybody who is willing NOT to understand what is going on behind the installer will find (in the arch forum and not very prominently) a tutorial that works very much like that gone-away installer.
27 • @8 (by Dave on 2012-07-23 20:53:08 GMT from United States)
Quite simply, they made a new release snapshot because one was needed to incorporate major systems changes that have happened since the last snapshot which would complicate or possibly prevent installation entirely using old media. At the very least the user would be doing two or three major upgrades almost immediately after install which require manual intervention. Such is the price of staying very close to the bleeding edge.
As for the installer, it's unfortunate no one has the interest to maintain it. Maybe someone will step up and write a better one or step into the old maintainer's shoes. Maybe they won't, it won't be a dealbreaker for the core audience regardless and as some have noticed Arch most definitely is not trying to be Ubuntu.
28 • Fuduntu (by Jesse on 2012-07-23 20:53:14 GMT from Canada)
@Fewt
Since you're answering questions I wonder if you would take a moment to comment on Fuduntu's choice to use Google Docs and Google Mail in place of a local e-mail client and LibreOffice in the default install? Was this something the Fuduntu community voted on, or was it a move to save space on the DVD?
I'm really happy to hear your team is looking at YumEx, it's a package tool I think more RPM-based distros should use. Never figured out why Fedora didn't adopt it years ago.
29 • @28 (by Fewt on 2012-07-23 21:13:31 GMT from United States)
Hi Jesse, I held a survey a few months after starting the project and replacing the mail client with GMail was one of the things that received a lot of votes. Since I was already doing that type of work, it made sense to use the same sort of Chromium app for Google Docs also. I don't personally use them myself, but a side benefit is that it helps shrink the media some. Especially since we don't ship LibreOffice by default.
Now that it has shifted to Google Drive I'll probably have to re-evaluate Docs, but my ideal goal is to keep the media under 1GB so I don't know what I'll do there yet.
I agree that YumEx is a great tool, it needs some work, but one of the developers on the team has taken up the challenge. :)
30 • Steam (by WoodCAT on 2012-07-23 21:16:01 GMT from Canada)
Great news about Valve getting more involved with linux. I'd love to have Steam client on my Linux computers. I got many games from steam over the years [few more this summer sale ;-)) ] It's the only reason I still keep windows around.
Here is a link to Valve Linux Team blog
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/
31 • Arch Install Scripts are easier to use than you think (by Matin C. on 2012-07-23 21:37:19 GMT from Argentina)
Hey, what's up with all the fuss about Arch and it's new installation system? Did you tried it? I'm sure that no one from all the people complaining about this haven't installed any Arch using AIS yet.
While the new way may seem harder than previous with AIF, it's really a piece of cake, even more, the new way to install Arch let you:
1. install the base system
2. configure it
3. install additional packages, desktop environments and so on so by the time you make your FIRST boot you have your system up and running!
Come on, Arch is one of the _easiest_ power distros out there...
32 • Fuduntu (by Caveira on 2012-07-24 00:46:35 GMT from Brazil)
Hi all,
I've recently made the switch from SL 6 to fuduntu 2012.3 and I must say the project is fantastic.
I was looking for a rpm based distro with easy multimedia and desktop apps, while my scientific stuff would be compiled from source. Fuduntu provided both: the integration of chromium is good, AWN dock is awesome, codecs are there (fluendo!), and the repos give everything needed to compile all stuff I needed - GSL, Fltk, OpenMP, etc. I've also put gnome office, and for the rest, the wiki is simply great. I've also noted that their development rules result in a very stable environment - the copies I am running in my laptop and virtualized are rock solid.
In other words, at the end of the day, I get a modern system with the latest multimedia and desktop stuff AND my scientific programs get recent gcc, kennel and stability. I hope the project continues to progress and also hope to help at that!
Keep the good work fewt! Congrats!
33 • Fuduntu name change (by RollMeAway on 2012-07-24 03:57:24 GMT from United States)
fewtux
Seems like a natural.
There are far too many *untu , and there is NO relation, misleading to some?
34 • Arch Install Scripts (by Bandi on 2012-07-24 04:39:34 GMT from Romania)
The Arch Install Scripts are indeed easy to use, it reminded me of installing crux or gentoo, though i had some problems with booting after install. Arch mounted twice the wrong boot partition, but it worked out fine in the end. Control over your system, thats what i like by installing arch linux.
35 • Arch Install Scripts are easy for long time Archers, not for newcomers (by ZukrutP on 2012-07-24 05:23:03 GMT from Portugal)
I started with UNIX in 1982 and was a sysadmin until retirement. Yes, i am old.
I gave a try installing the new Arch in Virtualbox, trying to put the skin of a newcomer to ARCH.
If he is coming wiling to learn, forget it, he must already have learned. The Arch scripts page says:
To install Arch Linux on your system requires knowledge and application of a few skills on Linux. The list itself is not comprehensive but it gives an idea.
1. Working knowledge of shell, e.g. bash
2. Configuring network in shell.
3. Working knowledge on utilities like fdisk, mkfs, nano/vi/vim, chroot, locale-gen, passwd, etc.
4. The pacman mirrorlist.
5. Basic knowledge about /etc/fstab.
6. The purpose of running mkinitcpio.
7. Configuring GRUB/Syslinux.
Sure. With my beginners skin, first step: Keyboard layout
It says: available keymap files can be found in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/
He goes there and sees:
amiga/ atari/ i386/ include/ mac/ sun/ ppc@
Nice.
Follows disk partitioning. Go here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Partitioning
and so on.
With this approach, Arch will with no doubt scare the so despised noobs away.
But we all were noobs back in time.
And without noobs coming in, there will be no new generation.
If things remain in this state, I am afraid Archlinux will dwindle. Which is a pity because it is a wonderful distribution.
Hardened Archers fail to see any problems here, I suppose because for them all the configurations, vim, fdisk, mkinitcpio meanwhile are obvious for them.
In 6 months we will see.
36 • RE: 6 - 8 - 10 - 11 - 35 (by Landor on 2012-07-24 05:59:06 GMT from Canada)
#6
Experienced users don't want to waste time, so they need a GUI? Funny. Gentoo's a bit more in depth and I can basically go through a Gentoo install on the command line like a rocket. Are you an experienced user? You don't know the process by heart?
#8
How in the world could Arch ever become Gentoo with its current structure? Seriously.
#10
I never thought too much about TinyCore, and SliTaz is ok, but not to my liking. I'm with you on DSL. I've love to see it return, great little distribution. Too bad it's not Libre. Maybe one of the guys here that are complaining about Arch will show their expertise one day and make us a Libre DSL. :)
#11
If two (Ubuntu and Mint) are 5%, then you've looked at 38. Anyway, My biggest concern is that the 5% make it too easy for people. If a person isn't schooled in partitioning 'lingo' and procedures, or are a bit timid about making changes to their hard drives, then they should stick with whatever they're using already and overcome those two failings, or just forget about it completely. They're already getting it for nothing pretty well, not even any really participation, just they like it. So what else, it's gotta be spoon fed to them too?
#24
Eddie, you're right, but not completely. Rolling release distributions 'can' require a reinstall. One time I was in the Gentoo IRC and just scopin' things out (you would not believe what you learn in there more than you would pretty well most any other distribution, most) when this guy rolls in and is talking about all the crap he has to do to update his system, and was looking for a quick and easy way to do it. For some reason he let about 8 months slide by and Gentoo had made major changes to their system and he had to really do a lot if he wanted to keep his original install. In the end he just reinstalled new. But he had been running Gentoo for 7 years, and had done a stage 1 install I do believe. That's a long time for a rolling release, and if he wanted to actually work for it, he didn't have reinstall.
#35
"With this approach, Arch will with no doubt scare the so despised noobs away."
Good.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
37 • RE: 35 (by Landor on 2012-07-24 06:17:50 GMT from Canada)
I forgot one thing.
"In 6 months we will see."
The dreaded doomsday. I don't know how many times I've seen stuff like this. I guess it never gets old. There were people in here years ago predicting the demise of Gentoo, and I just snorted and laughed when I typed that.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
38 • The death of Arch? I don't think so. (by Anonymous Coward on 2012-07-24 10:44:27 GMT from Spain)
ZukrutP wrote:
--------------------------------------------
If things remain in this state, I am afraid Archlinux will dwindle. Which is a pity because it is a wonderful distribution.
Hardened Archers fail to see any problems here, I suppose because for them all the configurations, vim, fdisk, mkinitcpio meanwhile are obvious for them.
In 6 months we will see.
---------------------------------------------
Many users of hardcore distributions come from newbie-friendly distributions. It took me less than a year to start with Ubuntu (big fail) and move to Debian (good but not for my liking anymore) and then jump to Slackware. I can see that an experienced Linux user won't have trouble migrating from *buntu to a hard distro if he wants and reads the documentation.
I don't think a distribution is obligated to be easy to use or something. When someone decides to install a given distribution, it is supposed that he has investigated and he knows what he is getting. I think Arch competitors are the distributions which are considered "hardcore", nor the distributions that claim (often without a base) to be easy to use or install... Knowing Arch is not aimed at the newbie public, is easier to understand their decisions. I don't use Arch, nor I plan to. However, I must say you should not blame them if they take a "wallen garden" position. Experienced users will work the install out if they want, an newer users were surely better served by other distributions anyway.
For that matter, I would like to add that I don't mind if a given distribution takes an elitist stand, has unfriendly forums, keeps newbies away etc. There are a lot of distributions for newbies, but not so many for hardcore users. If they think that keeping a distribution "geek only" has advantages (and it has), let them do it and try something else if you don't like it. Don't try to turn the few hardcore distributions that are left into another *buntu clone.
39 • @35 • Arch Install Scripts (by mandog on 2012-07-24 11:13:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
Arch Linux targets and accommodates competent GNU/Linux users by giving them complete control and responsibility over the system.
Arch Linux users fully manage the system on their own. The system itself will offer little assistance, except for a simple set of maintenance tools that are designed to perfectly relay the user's commands to the system. Arch developers do not expend energy re-inventing GUI system tools; Arch is founded upon sensible design and excellent documentation.
This user-centric design necessarily implies a certain "do-it-yourself" approach to using the Arch distribution. Rather than pursuing assistance or requesting a new feature to be implemented by developers, Arch Linux users have a tendency to solve problems themselves and share the results with the community and development team – a "do first, then ask" philosophy. This is especially true for user-contributed packages found in the Arch User Repository – the official Arch Linux repository for community-maintained packages.
40 • Arch Linux for all of us (by Alex on 2012-07-24 11:41:28 GMT from Czech Republic)
We, the users, not the geek have a very good chance to own an Arch Linux distribution by downloading an excellent distro Bridge Linux with all the DEs, Cinnamon, Gnome, KDE, LXDE, XFCE. Isn't the world good?
41 • @38 (by greg on 2012-07-24 12:19:14 GMT from Slovenia)
I on the other hand don't like to lose much time dealing with OS. i mostly use programmes found in certain os to do my work and for leisure activities. All this time OS runs in background operating with the system. i prefer if the OS is not seen and heard. and as long as i can run the type programmes i want to run i do not care what os is running underneath them. Be it linux, windows or whatever else.
42 • 39 (by mandog on 2012-07-24 12:34:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
That was taken from the Arch way
People should read about so called geekish distros, "which they are not in any way I know I'm old I'm Dyslexic so I have to read Wiki's many times" before attempting a failed install its as simple as that. Remember Arch does not break its self you break it nobody forces you to install what is above your own abilities nor does it give you the right to be judge and jury if you are not competent.
43 • Arch and install (by Scott on 2012-07-24 13:36:01 GMT from United States)
Well, I just gave it a try. If you're familiar with fdisk, (or probably cfdisk, didn't try it with that), it should be pretty easy. You boot, run the fdisk command and partition, then moutn your partitions. After that, you just run the scripts. The beginners' guide makes it pretty clear, though I wasn't quite clear where to configure networking for first boot. (However, rc.conf still works.)
For me, Arch has always been a good thing to quickly throw on when I need a minimal system. The lack of an install menu, I now see, isn't really going to change that. I do understand one of the earlier comments, that even the experienced user doesn't want to spend too much time on an install, but it really takes little more time than the old style installation. It makes fewer decisions for the user, and as has been said, isn't too worried about setting the bar low for the newcomer. It was started as a one person thing by a developer who had his own idea about what he wanted, and grew. So, I would guess that if it did lose popularity, and I don't really think it will, the people who still use it would be fine with that.
44 • Unity for Fedora -- and openSUSE please? (by AnklefaceWroughtlandmire on 2012-07-24 14:32:33 GMT from Ecuador)
Great news about Unity for Fedora. I personally hope that once the team figures out how to de-couple Unity from its Ubuntu-specific underpinnings and puts it in RPM format, this could theoretically be used to generate packages for other distros. Specifically, I'd like to see Unity available for my preferred distro, openSUSE.
45 • Mate (suggestion for the Fuduntu team?) and Arch (by John on 2012-07-24 14:32:48 GMT from Europe)
I have never considered Fuduntu before but might give it a quick try, although I doubt I will ditch my current distro for it. I'm currently using Linux Mint 13 Mate and it's the best install I have had in a long time. I have played with and actually like Gnome Shell, Unity and Cinnamon and would happily any of them - if they weren't so sluggish on my (admittedly not up to date) hardware. Mate has proven to be a godsend, fully featured but also lightening quick.
Perhaps the Funduntu team should consider it for future releases.
I might have to try Arch again too. I last used it probably about 3 years ago and found the install easy (following the guides), and ended up with a lightweight/fast system that met my needs. The only thing that has stopped me is that I am finding it increasingly hard to justify spending time tweaking an install when distributions like Mint do what I need out of the box - even though I do enjoy the process.
46 • Re: 18, Secure Boot (by Apostrophe on 2012-07-24 14:38:45 GMT from France)
> Funny, but whenever somebody tells me I "have nothing
> to worry about", that's when I REALLY start worrying.
Indeed. It looks like Microsoft's infamous scheme to monopolize access to standard hardware has already found supporters among the handful of large, commercial GNU/Linux distributions. Why am I not surprised to find Red Hat, Fedora and Ubuntu to be the first to collaborate with Microsoft on the issue? But I wonder what will happen in a few years time, when there will be no more PC hardware that runs anything other than Windows without Microsoft's permission? I'm sure this won't make much of a difference for the kernel crowd and for most of the upstream projects. They will continue to toil away and do what they're doing, no matter what. But what will happen to large non-commercial distributions like Debian, Slackware, Mageia, Arch, Gentoo etc? What will happen to the hundreds of small, independent projects, when there's no more hardware for them to run on? A lot has been written and said and there's a lot of noise around the whole issue. But so far I have never (not once!) heard any reassuring answer to all these questions. You are right, we really should be worried.
47 • Re: 45, "from Europe" (by Apostrophe on 2012-07-24 15:35:43 GMT from France)
I'm sorry this is completely off-topic, John. But seeing that your post came "from Europe" I am interested to know what one has to do to be so wonderfully vague about one's location. I'd like to do the same :-)
48 • Re: 47 (by John on 2012-07-24 15:45:37 GMT from Europe)
Good question. I don't know - I'm in the UK. I believe one of my posts on a previous dww said I was in the United States (but I was still in the UK) so I guess my ISP must be upto something dodgy. :)
49 • All this talk of Arch installs made easy (by Dan on 2012-07-24 16:34:38 GMT from Canada)
Arch wants you to get used to the idea of reading & learning. Seriously, even a pacman -Syu comes with some needed reading half the time, and those that don't read are bound to end up with a somewhat broken install. It's better to get used to this idea straight from the install as opposed to later. Noobs are welcome, but only if they are willing to dig a little.
50 • Arch, Secure Boot (by Arkanabar on 2012-07-24 16:36:17 GMT from United States)
Folks really need to understand that when Arch says their way is "simple," that simple != easy. In the kitchen, a wooden spoon is simple. A Kitchenaid stand mixer is easy. Arch's configuration is a lot like Slackware's package management, in that in both cases the sysadmin cedes no control to code. No code is the simplest code.
I appreciate that Arch is what it is, a group with a very particular vision of what they want a linux distro to be that builds their distro to match their vision. It reminds me a bit of the mindset of the Eastern Orthodox. Don't ask them to be something they aren't.
Microsoft is now targeting ARM devices for secure boot lock-in more than desktops. Since these smaller, more mobile devices will likely outnumber desktops in the near future (if they don't already) this locked-in dominance will help them maintain control over the consumer's computing/internet experience in the coming decade.
51 • Arc, the reluctant distro (by Charles on 2012-07-24 17:09:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Arch is a reluctant distro, the devs are uncomfortable with their distro's popularity. The developers, annoyed with being harassed by their users have taken to using private development forums which I think is a bit silly, however it is their distro and they will do as they see fit as they seem to keen to tell us at every given opportunity.
I also see Aaron Griffin is still the lead developer having not been seen for about 2 years, with nobody wanting to take responsibility.
Maybe this is why they are struggling for maintainers, how about a rolling release binary based distro that embraces their users instead of sighing loudly at them?
52 • secure boot on ARM (by Julian on 2012-07-24 17:27:35 GMT from United States)
it may be that microsoft is targeting ARM devices for secure boot, but microsoft has very little control over that market. That market belongs to iPad, iPhone, and Android. (Mind you, i won't be surprised to see google/apple/amazon lock down their hardware some, too)
53 • The Secure Boot Shenanigan (by Woody Oaks on 2012-07-24 18:13:26 GMT from United States)
The gambit seems to depend on motherboards being controlled by UEFI in lieu of BIOS, so a very real question is the degree to which the UEFI Project people will submit to vassalage under Microsoft's thumb. (Consider Nokia's recent fate.) Is the UEFI code Open Source? Can it be forked, and if not can it be reverse-engineered? Can BIOS itself or some sort of pseudo-BIOS be swapped-in in its stead? Coreboot code is only now being written for K6 architectures, so it might be too distant a dream. My own conclusion from the little I know is that some serious email exchanges need to be made with the UEFI people right now before this monster's egg hatches.
54 • Re: 52, secure boot on ARM (by Apostrophe on 2012-07-24 18:32:15 GMT from France)
> Mind you, i won't be surprised to see google/apple/amazon
> lock down their hardware some, too
I wouldn't be surprised either. But it is one thing, when people enter such a jail voluntarily out of stupidity, ignorance or conformism and it is another thing, when an entire hardware architecture is locked down under the pretense of "security", especially when those entrusted with the administration and the distribution of the keys have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted in such matters.
I think, there are strong arguments in favor of a "Unified Extensible Firmware Interface". But the administration, the coordination and the distribution of the keys should be left to an uninvolved party, ideally an international non-profit organization, that is unbiased, transparent in its actions and, for a change, not located in the US or in Europe. How about South-America or Asia?
55 • @John #45 (by Fewt on 2012-07-24 18:33:18 GMT from United States)
John, We looked at using MATE but decided against it some time ago. When I re-evaluated our GNOME 2 / desktop direction a few weeks ago I decided that I would likely fork GNOME 2 and we would maintain that fork ourselves. We are already pretty deep into GNOME 2 maintenance having patched a lot of things that the GNOME team left broken when they abandoned it, so heading down this path seems like the right direction for us.
56 • ARM ROM (by Woody Oaks on 2012-07-24 18:56:26 GMT from United States)
While the ROM chips of a desktop can be swapped or even flashed in place such modifications of tablets, phones, and other small devices might not be so easy or even practical, so Balmer's scheme holds a special promise (for him) in that market. Tablets and such will soon be ubiquitous in hospitals and warehouses and on retail and manufacturing floors where they will serve as thin clients in radio contact with their in-house servers, but Microsoft's software is too inefficient for use on a small client (e.g., Lumia's 500M of RAM) and a poor challenger to UNIX for any serious server. Thus Microsoft's kludge has no good place in the ARM market at all, and its possible success with this Secure Boot Scam would definitely not be good for ARM at all.
57 • fewt @55 (by fernbap on 2012-07-24 20:08:13 GMT from Portugal)
" I decided that I would likely fork GNOME 2 and we would maintain that fork ourselves"
Kudos to you!
The first person here that i think is having the right attitude towards Gnome.
Mate is not really a gnome 2 fork, it is more a clone. A version of gnome 2 able to run alongside gnome 3. Who wants that? You either want Gnome 3 or Gnome 2, noone would want both.
Let's stick to the real thing instead.
58 • @Fewt #55 (by John on 2012-07-24 20:36:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Fewt, That's fair enough. Personally I don't mind whether I'm using Mate or Gnome 2, so long as it works and is supported, but I like the sound of the work you are doing with Gnome 2.
I wish you luck with your fork and with the distribution in general. I'm downloading the ISO as I write this to give it a spin. :)
59 • Mate and Gnome (by Jesse on 2012-07-24 20:53:09 GMT from Canada)
>> "Mate is not really a gnome 2 fork, it is more a clone."
Mate is the very definition of a fork. A fork is what happens when you take a project's code, make a copy of it and then make changes to your copy of the original code. A clone is what happens when you start a new project from scratch and design it to work like another project. Some people think of Linux as being a UNIX clone, for example. Mate is a fork of the Gnome 2 code with the libraries renamed so it can run on machines which have Gnome 3 installed. This can be quite handy, especially for distributions like Mint where people might want both Cinnamon (based on Gnome 3's code) and Mate (based on Gnome 2's code).
60 • @59 (by Fewt on 2012-07-24 21:38:06 GMT from United States)
Jesse is exactly right, MATE is a fork. Our reasons for not using MATE don't have anything to do with the MATE project itself. They are based around what's best for our project and that our planned changes may not be easily managed as patches to another upstream project.
61 • Arch and loss of AIF (by Sam Snead on 2012-07-24 21:42:54 GMT from United States)
I just installed Arch without AIF, using the new scripting. Not an issue.
What I do have an issue with, is the attitude on the Arch forums, from moderators and some posters.
These guys must be ex-moderators from Freebsd. Talk about bad attitudes! I am pretty disgusted by their frequent, if not constant, flippant, rude, unsympathetic, impatient, and generally unwelcoming and unfriendly attitudes. And, worst of all: UNPROFESSIONAL. Now I know they are dealing with many who dont' RTFM, or worse. But still, moderators essentially represent the public face of the distro, and I hate to see it.
Otherwise, Arch is fun, but requires attention to detail, and an appetite for troubleshooting and digital adventure.
62 • Learn it or Leave it (by Fred on 2012-07-24 22:12:39 GMT from United States)
@61 Thanks for your comments. I am 73 and for years used what Landor calls the :kiddy disros" e.g. 'buntus, 'mints. I have tried 4 times to install Arch and failed. I am just an average guy who enjoys linux over windows. So many comments this week can easily be seen as unfriendly to anyone who does not have the skills to deal with the likes of Arch, Gentoo, Slackware. Perhaps many of those commenters are geeks or those who have had training. I continue to read distrowatch each week Despite occasional noob negativity.
63 • @59, @60 (by fernbap on 2012-07-24 22:45:59 GMT from Portugal)
I understand your views, but i find a bit odd watching the emergence of a few distros offering MATE alone (btw, Mint Cinnamon and Mint MATE are 2 different install mediae).
And i ask: why on earth? Isn't Gnome 2 around? MATE working on its own without Gnome 3 doesn't make much sense, does it?
64 • Mate (by Jesse on 2012-07-24 23:54:20 GMT from Canada)
>> "(btw, Mint Cinnamon and Mint MATE are 2 different install mediae).
Yes, but you can easily install both environments and experiment with both, as I did in my last review of Mint. Some people like to explore their desktop options without performing a fresh install.
>> "And i ask: why on earth? Isn't Gnome 2 around? MATE working on its own without Gnome 3 doesn't make much sense, does it?"
Gnome 2 was disconnected by its developers. They have dropped it. If you want a desktop with the same style and functionality of Gnome 2 and you also want security updates and bug fixes then Mate is the best option. Some distributions, like Red Hat, will continue to maintain Gnome 2 in their own repositories for years, but if you are putting out a _new_ release there is no point in shipping a dead desktop. That's why projects are adopting Mate, it's an actively maintained branch of the Gnome 2 code.
Perhaps try turning the question around, why would a distribution ship Gnome 2, which is no longer maintained, when there is Mate, which does the same thing and has active developers?
65 • Re: #61, 62 - Arch (by Anon on 2012-07-25 00:09:42 GMT from Norway)
Sam Snead wrote: "I am pretty disgusted by their frequent, if not constant, flippant, rude, unsympathetic, impatient, and generally unwelcoming and unfriendly attitudes. And, worst of all: UNPROFESSIONAL."
Ain't that the truth. As a longtime Arch user I find it totally unforgivable to have what I consider one of the finest Linux distros being fronted by people with such despicable attitudes. Of course, they don't understand how they come across or they would have done something about it.
Fred wrote: " I have tried 4 times to install Arch and failed."
Try again! I spent quite a while myself before I finally got Arch to boot the first time. I had a second computer with the detailed installation/configuration instructions on the screen during the process. I guess you could also print out the document(s). It is not complicated, but does require attention to detail... Have at it, and good luck!
66 • @64 (by fernbap on 2012-07-25 00:27:56 GMT from Portugal)
"Perhaps try turning the question around, why would a distribution ship Gnome 2, which is no longer maintained, when there is Mate, which does the same thing and has active developers?"
1. one more reason to fork gnome 2
2. because MATE and Gnome 2 are not the same thing. Gnome 2 users are used to a lot of things MATE doesn't offer, including compiz. MATE has still a long way to go before it becomes "the same thing".
67 • @61, 65 (by Charles on 2012-07-25 00:29:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think a lot of people feel the same, there are no other distros that are binary based, build from the ground up and rolling release so if you want this feature set you use Arch and basically put up with or stand off from the community, just stay well clear of #archlinux-offtopic
The Arch devs have made it clear that you won't be nurtured, and if you don't contribute they don't care for you, catch 22, who wants to be a part of that? We don't want to know you if you don't contribute but to contribute you have to put up with the infamous "snobbery".
If it wasn't for already established Arch users such as Dave Reisner plucked from within their community to become devs I don't know what they would do.
68 • Mate desktop (by Jesse on 2012-07-25 01:37:07 GMT from Canada)
>> "1. one more reason to fork gnome 2
2. because MATE and Gnome 2 are not the same thing. "
As Fewt and I have been trying to explain, the Mate desktop _is_ a fork of Gnome 2. They are doing exactly what you suggest they do. If you feel there are pieces missing or things which haven't been addressed yet then you should report a bug and let the Mate developers know. They have a number of ways you can leave them feedback: http://mate-desktop.org/support/
Forking a project as massive as Gnome 2 takes time, it's a work in progress. Just because they haven't got everything working 100% yet doesn't mean it's not a fork, it means they have a lot of work to do. Remember even the Gnome developers, the people who wrote Gnome 2, claimed it was impossible to maintain their codebase. Mate has a smaller team so it's going to take time before they have everything working exactly the way they want.
69 • Enjoying "hard" distros (by leon on 2012-07-25 04:40:45 GMT from Netherlands)
If you want to enjoy Gentoo, you can have Calculate or Sabayon. If you want to enjoy Arch, you can have Bridge Linux, Archbang or CTKArch and they become Arch installations, when you install them. Some people have been good enough to give us not so geeky people these "hard" operating systems. So, there is no problem in getting these "hard" OSs, right?
70 • @68 (by fernbap on 2012-07-25 04:59:47 GMT from Portugal)
" If you feel there are pieces missing or things which haven't been addressed yet"
That is not the point. The point is desktop integration and inclusion of third party software that expects the file manager to be named nautilus and the window manager to be named metacity.
There is also all the work made by Ubuntu on Gnome 2, that MATE would have to completely rewrite to make it work on MATE.
So, MATE is basically a quick fix of the vanilla Gnome so that it may work with gnome 3. However, Making all things that are already working fine on Gnome 2 also work fine and integrated on MATE is a HUGE task, that i don't believe will be ever finished.
If you simply get Gnome 2 and continue developping it, which is basically what fewt wants to do, all that work is already done. You don't have to rewrite ANYTHING in order for it to work fine.
MATE is going backwards. I prever to move forward.
71 • Microsoft's Secure Boot requirements and ARM (by DavidEF on 2012-07-25 17:45:18 GMT from United States)
First, we all know Microsoft will close any and all markets to competitors in any way they can. That is their track record, and the only reliable/predictable thing about them. So, what does that mean? Well, the OEM's that wish to play Microsoft's game will play by Microsoft's rules. But, it is obvious to some that it's no fun and very bad for business to play by Microsoft's rules. They simply won't seek certification for their hardware. It isn't necessary anyway, because they can still install Windows without it.
What I'm hoping will happen is that the majority of hardware that uses ARM processors will NOT be certified, and will NOT be locked down, because they don't have to be! Besides the fact that most ARM devices run some other OS than Windows anyway, there is also no need for those who do want to sell ARM hardware with Windows to certify it for Windows. In the real world, users don't even care about Microsoft certification.
To me, what this means is that we may still have plenty of choices in hardware, possibly even more than we have today. Microsoft only has a desktop monopoly. They've clearly shown time and time again that they cannot succeed outside of their monopoly zone. I believe that if they were to somehow lose monopoly status on the desktop today, they'd never be able to get it back. They apparently feel the same way. That is the only logical explanation for their Secure Boot restrictions. It is a last ditch effort to maintain and extend their monopoly. The problem for them is that the conditions that allowed them to become a monopoly years ago no longer exist, at least not in the right mixture. They need to get a new imagination and be creative if they are to make it in this new computing world.
Remember - ARM doesn't need Windows, but Windows needs ARM. Unless manufacturers are unbelievably stupid, we really shouldn't have much to worry about. Oh wait...
72 • MS kludge for a MS problem (by Woody Oaks on 2012-07-25 18:54:23 GMT from United States)
Just how many UNIX boxes, with appropriate SELinux and ClamAV protection, have been compromised by malware in the past year - or past two years - or past three years? Does anyone know? Seriously, folks, post some data here if you know of any. Is Secure Boot anything more than just another of Microsoft's attempts to ameliorate those previous problems which its previous amelioration attempts caused?
Could it be that the greatest virtue of Microsoft's Windows System is that it is not as bad as it used to be, and that is a great way to sell software like the Windows 1.1 repair of Windows 1.0 which didn't work at all?
73 • Re: 71, Microsoft's Secure Boot ... (by Apostrophe on 2012-07-25 19:10:43 GMT from France)
Excellent comment, Dave. Let's hope things will play out that way. It would also be interesting and potentially useful to know, what the scattered, unorganized zoo of small, independent GNU/Linux projects thinks about such issues. A survey of these projects might bring results that could provide some sort of leverage with hardware manufacturers.
74 • Comprised (by Jesse on 2012-07-25 21:20:43 GMT from Canada)
>> "Just how many UNIX boxes, with appropriate SELinux and ClamAV protection, have been compromised by malware in the past year - or past two years - or past three years? Does anyone know?"
There have been reports on this if you search around a little. I don't have any specific numbers on world-wide compromises, but I can say that I often see Linux servers (and the odd desktop) that has been compromised. Off the top of my head I can think of about half a dozen infected Linux boxes I've been asked to clean up in the past year. If memory serves the desktops were all Fedora installs (with SELinux running) and the servers were all CentOS. That's just my personal experience though.
75 • Re: 44, Unity for Fedora -- and openSUSE please? (by Albert on 2012-07-26 02:38:20 GMT from Netherlands)
Have you tried http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/GNOME:/Ayatana/12.1/ ?
76 • wpa_gui - some config required? (by gnomic on 2012-07-26 11:07:37 GMT from New Zealand)
Of late have struck a couple of live CDs that offer up wpa_gui as the only means of gaining wireless access. This means that the user has to set up wpa_supplicant.conf as root before wpa_gui can be of any use? Just wondering whether anybody has been through this loop and can give me the gen without having to read the fine manual. Don't recall wpa_gui just working out of the box, unlike ceni, wicd, and NetworkManager for example.
77 • Compromised Linux Boxes? Uhh...none! (by DavidEF on 2012-07-26 12:33:53 GMT from United States)
I've seen dozens of infected Windows boxes. I've never seen a compromised Linux box, unless you count the distance between keyboard and chair. No, wait, I've not really seen problems there either, although I've heard it *can* happen.
78 • RE: 34 - 40 - 55 - 62 -65 - 76 (by Landor on 2012-07-26 16:46:43 GMT from Canada)
#34
Arch selected the wrong boot partition twice, then was fine? I gotta ask, how did it do that, then magically fix itself? A distribution going through the boot process doesn't go to itself, wait, maybe I'll just pick this one this time, and then when it doesn't work moves on to another one. You tell it what to boot from and if you didn't know what you were doing it doesn't know what it's doing in turn.
#40
You learned a lot from that too I guess, no? Learn how to download an ISO, burn it, boot it up, 'play' with the live system. Isn't the world good?
#55
I wouldn't get too excited if I were you, fernbap. He states that he's maintaining GNOME 2, not developing it. Sounds very limited to me. The GNOME developers worked on it for, well, some of them since the start, I'm sure when they say the codebase has issues they know what they're talking about. I wouldn't be expecting too much other than being able to be packaged/installed and possibly some very minor other things from them with GNOME 2. Nor would I expect that for years to come either is my guess. Also, if I read correctly some things have already been excluded on being 'maintained' (ie: in reply to Sam I do believe).
Possibly an explanation of what 'maintaining' it means would be in order.
#62
Facts are facts though Fred, if someone doesn't have the skills then they shouldn't be doing something. I can list a billion things that people shouldn't do for a billions reasons. If they want to keep doing it though, and no directly negative consequence other than to themselves, then by all means. That doesn't mean anything should be made easy just for them, or that they have rights so every distribution should suck up to them because they lack what others do not. People seem to forge the natural order of the world. A prime example is #34.
#65
I don't see those distributions being named Gentoo or Arch, so tell me, by your logic,
how do you enjoy them?
#76
I've been known to not have wireless automatically setup on some of my systems. All I do regardless of what I'm using is drop to the console and bring it up manually. It should be that simple for whatever you're using. I know you're looking for an automatic solution, and I have no doubt you already know my solution too. :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
79 • @78 (by fernbap on 2012-07-26 17:21:10 GMT from Portugal)
"The GNOME developers worked on it for, well, some of them since the start, I'm sure when they say the codebase has issues they know what they're talking about"
Sure, but those "issues" are also inherited by MATE.
My point is, MATE still has a lot to go until it offers a desktop as polished and integrated as, say, that of Ubuntu 8.04.
So, we can say that MATE took us back for at least more than 4 years.
However, if we pick Gnome as is, we are not looking 4 years into the past. We are looking at present.
By "mantaining" i mean keep it working, and that is all. Also, if you consider the basic KISS principle, "if it works, don't fix it", the myth that only software that is continuously being developed is good comes crumbling down.
80 • A first for me, I agree with openbsd's Theo De Raadt ! (by RollMeAway on 2012-07-27 01:12:47 GMT from United States)
UEFI "secure boot" :
http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/55924-openbsds-de-raadt-slams-red-hat-canonical-over-secure-boot
I never thought I would see the day when a linux distro would include a microsoft KEY embedded in the kernel.
Is hell covered in ice now?
81 • RE: 80 (by Landor on 2012-07-27 02:32:08 GMT from Canada)
I've said for some time that Fedora and Red Hat are nothing but trouble. They only worry about freedoms and rights from a financial/corporate point of view. Meaning, when they need to protect their collective asses, then freedom's good. When it's gonna cost them money, who cares.
I've also said the same thing about Ubuntu. It's been obvious from the onset that Canonical is out to make money only. The whole community thing was a scam. People talk about Unity being the killer and such, what a joke. Prior to Unity long term community supporters were leaving the project prior to all that because Canonical started stiffing the community large.
This isn't surprising in the least. I wouldn't recommend either of the two to my worst enemy.
Though I'd recommend another OS to a lot of undeserving newbs. :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
82 • @80 (by othedeadrat on 2012-07-27 15:31:36 GMT from United States)
actually, most of de raadt's rants/comments should be taken more seriously, his intentions are good, and he holds himself and project to a very high standard. many times, he is taken out of context. his points are valid.
83 • arch linux and newbies (by Julian on 2012-07-27 22:20:39 GMT from United States)
"Arch Linux targets and accommodates competent GNU/Linux users by giving them complete control and responsibility over the system"
Arch linux may intend to target them, but Arch (and Debian, Slackware, and other distros that are loved by experienced Linux folks and ignored by new folks) is also a target of people who make derivative distros. Perfect! you can have plain arch, or you can have 'already ready to go' arch derivative.
84 • @83, "easy" Arch derivatives (by TobiSGD on 2012-07-27 22:50:13 GMT from Germany)
" you can have plain arch, or you can have 'already ready to go' arch derivative."
Sounds nice, but has a significant problem. The normal way to install Arch is (at least if you are new to Arch) by following the beginners guide, so that you can learn in this process how Arch works and how you can configure it. The problem with distros like Archbang is that they completely omit this step. This leads to newbies installing Arch and being totally clueless what to do if Arch breaks, which, due to its rolling release nature, can and will happen.
Those derivatives are fine for people that know Arch and want to have an easy to deploy system, but actually make things harder for people that do not know Arch in the long run.
Let X break for whatever reason and those newbies don't know at all what to do and where to look for reasons of the breakage, just because they haven't learned the basic things that you should know about the system.
85 • AntiX 12 rc2 (by Eduardo on 2012-07-28 00:32:13 GMT from Chile)
testing AntiX 12 rc2 in live mode all works well but installing is very different. After installing in spanish language, passwords does not works and all the process go to trash. What a frustration!
86 • #85 (by anticapitalista on 2012-07-28 10:56:28 GMT from Greece)
Eduardo, the problem is with the slim login manager. It is basic and really only recognises 'standard' characters. So you can boot antiX-rc2, at boot/menu Press F2 for Spanish and when you install make sure the username and passwords use 'standard' characters eg qwe username works in Spanish, but ñ probably will not.
87 • @84 - Arch derivatives (by subg on 2012-07-29 07:58:55 GMT from Canada)
"...derivatives are fine for people that know Arch and want to have an easy to deploy system, but actually make things harder for people that do not know Arch in the long run..."
I'm not sure that's a significant issue. Any new user with limited understanding who runs into problems will try the derivative's resources first, and those who need to will end up referred to the Arch pages anyway.
In some ways qualifying Arch as a distribution for only advanced users is misleading - the Arch documentation is almost a cookbook it's so good, so it isn't hard to troubleshoot and stay running. Fiddly, yes, but not difficult or advanced if you follow the instructions.
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| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
| • Issue 1044 (2023-11-06): Porteus 5.01, disabling IPv6, applications unique to a Linux distro, Linux merges bcachefs, OpenELA makes source packages available |
| • Issue 1043 (2023-10-30): Murena Two with privacy switches, where old files go when packages are updated, UBports on Volla phones, Mint testing Cinnamon on Wayland, Peppermint releases ARM build |
| • Issue 1042 (2023-10-23): Ubuntu Cinnamon compared with Linux Mint, extending battery life on Linux, Debian resumes /usr merge, Canonical publishes fixed install media |
| • Issue 1041 (2023-10-16): FydeOS 17.0, Dr.Parted 23.09, changing UIDs, Fedora partners with Slimbook, GNOME phasing out X11 sessions, Ubuntu revokes 23.10 install media |
| • Issue 1040 (2023-10-09): CROWZ 5.0, changing the location of default directories, Linux Mint updates its Edge edition, Murena crowdfunding new privacy phone, Debian publishes new install media |
| • Issue 1039 (2023-10-02): Zenwalk Current, finding the duration of media files, Peppermint OS tries out new edition, COSMIC gains new features, Canonical reports on security incident in Snap store |
| • Issue 1038 (2023-09-25): Mageia 9, trouble-shooting launchers, running desktop Linux in the cloud, New documentation for Nix, Linux phasing out ReiserFS, GNU celebrates 40 years |
| • Issue 1037 (2023-09-18): Bodhi Linux 7.0.0, finding specific distros and unified package managemnt, Zevenet replaced by two new forks, openSUSE introduces Slowroll branch, Fedora considering dropping Plasma X11 session |
| • Issue 1036 (2023-09-11): SDesk 2023.08.12, hiding command line passwords, openSUSE shares contributor survery results, Ubuntu plans seamless disk encryption, GNOME 45 to break extension compatibility |
| • Full list of all issues |
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Ark Linux
Ark Linux was a Linux distribution designed especially for desktop use, primarily for people without prior Linux experience. Its main goal was ease of use, and the inclusion of many tools end users will need. Ark Linux was fully Open Source and Free Software, meaning, basically, you can freely redistribute it in both modified and unmodified form.
Status: Discontinued
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View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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0x969CD4E778C7b6549A2B00e34114e0168c86A542 
