 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 461, 18 June 2012 |
Welcome to this year's 25th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! The brand-new version 13 of Linux Mint was probably the most eagerly anticipated release in the project's history. Appealing to more conservative users and featuring a rather traditional desktop layout, the distribution has succeeded in combining modern software and classic user interfaces into one tasty and fragrant package. Read our first-look review of Linux Mint 13 below. In the news section, openSUSE delays the 12.2 release amid unprecedented development and management difficulties, Debian discusses the role of the independent Multimedia repository in the project's wider context, Puppy Linux community releases a "Fatdog64" variant with multi-user support, and Ikey Doherty reveals the philosophy of SolusOS, one of the fastest-growing new Linux distributions in recent times. Also in this issue, a Q&A section discussing specialist distributions for audio recording and suggesting a good multi-distro disk layout, and the upcoming releases column with a link to the new Mageia 3 roadmap. Happy reading!
Content:
- Reviews: Mint mated with Cinnamon
- News: openSUSE 12.2 delay, Debian Multimedia controversy, Puppy multi-user variant, SolusOS interview
- Questions and answers: Distributions for audio recording, multi-distro disk layout
- Released last week: Lightweight Portable Security 1.3.5, Tails 0.12, Liberté Linux 2012.2
- Upcoming releases: Mageia 3 roadmap
- New additions: iQunix OS
- New distributions: Adonis Linux, Bitrig, DeniX OS, Instant WebKiosk, JfLinux, Linux-Bro, Linux Regal, MLIPenguin-OS
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (24MB) and MP3 (22MB) formats
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Mint mated with Cinnamon
 The Linux Mint project is one which has gained a good deal of attention in recent years. The distribution, lead by Clement Lefebvre, has continued to increase in popularity and currently tops the DistroWatch page hit charts. The project has continued to do well financially too, bringing in over $13,000 from donations and sponsorships last month. The main edition of Linux Mint is based upon the Ubuntu distribution and the latest version of Mint, version 13, will be a long term support release and receive support for five years. The Main edition is further broken into several sub-editions, each of which is offered as either a 32-bit or 64-bit build. The flavours currently offered are Cinnamon and MATE -- Cinnamon being a desktop environment which is put together using GNOME 3 technology, but featuring a classic style desktop. The MATE desktop can be considered a continuation of the GNOME 2 environment. Further expanding our options users can download a fully loaded build of either preferred desktop, complete with multimedia codecs and Flash. Alternatively users can download a completely free edition of either desktop that avoids the use of proprietary or patented software.
With so many editions and builds available we are not lacking for choice and we've been told to expect KDE and Xfce spins of Mint in the near future. For the purposes of this review I decided to download the fully loaded Cinnamon 32-bit edition. The ISO image for this edition is a touch over 800 MB in size and booting from the disc brings up a classic-looking desktop. The Mint logo is displayed in the background, an application menu sits at the bottom of the screen and the task switcher and system tray also line the bottom of the screen. On the desktop we find icons for launching the system installer and browsing the file system.
Running through the installer we find it's the same as the latest Ubuntu installer. We are walked through choosing our preferred language, partitioning the hard disk, setting our time zone and confirming our keyboard layout. We are asked to create a regular user account and we are given the option of encrypting our home folder. After copying over the required system files the installer starts downloading additional language packs, a step which can be skipped if we don't wish to wait for the download to complete. As I found with Ubuntu, the Mint installer walked through its steps smoothly and I found the process to be both fast and intuitive. Partitioning with the Mint installer is very straight forward and just about every file system in the Linux ecosystem is supported.
Linux Mint 13 - the welcome screen
(full image size: 309kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Booting into our local installation of Linux Mint the first time the screen goes blank. This is by design and it is a choice I find strange as it makes it look as though the computer has locked up while it is going through its start-up routine. The system eventually brings us to a graphical login screen. Logging into Cinnamon my initial impression was that it looked like a typical GNOME 2 desktop where the application menu and system tray are placed at the bottom of the display. The first time we login a welcome screen appears and provides us with links to documentation, tutorials, a donation page and the project's manual. Looking around the system, I found the Cinnamon developers had done a good job of imitating the old GNOME style. The application menu is a bit more fancy with quick-launch buttons arrayed along the left-hand side, but otherwise I found the experience ... familiar. It was an odd sensation when I considered this was my first experience using the Cinnamon environment.
After playing around with the Cinnamon desktop for a while and finding the experience to be smooth I downloaded the MATE desktop and tried it too. Logging into MATE I found it to be virtually identical to running GNOME 2 on Ubuntu. The Applications, Places & System menu are placed at the top of the screen and the task switcher is placed at the bottom of the display. The theme is a basic grey with a flat blue background. Personally I didn't find any difference between running MATE on Mint compared to running GNOME 2 on older versions of Ubuntu. It's a straight forward environment and quick to respond. One aspect of running both desktops I hadn't expected was that when I was logged into Cinnamon no notification was displayed when package updates were available. However, when I logged into MATE an icon would appear in the system tray and let me know whether or not my system was up to date with the repositories.
On the subject of updates, upgrades to packages are handled by the custom Mint update manager. Like most other update managers, this one shows us a list of packages available to be upgraded, provides a description of the package and (for some packages) a change log. Unlike most other update tools the Mint update manager ranks each available package on a scale of one to five to indicate how safe upgrading the package should be. A value of one indicates the package has been tested by the Mint team and found to be safe. A five indicates the package is likely to cause problems. I installed Linux Mint 13 a few weeks after it became available and found there were 181 packages waiting to be updated. Each of the updates downloaded and applied without any problems.
Linux Mint 13 - managing software and desktop settings
(full image size: 201kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Linux Mint comes with two graphical package managers. The first one, called Software Manager, presents us with categories represented by icons. Clicking on a category brings up a list of items available items in that section. Each software package is displayed with a name, description, icon and user-provided rating. Clicking on a package's entry brings up an information screen with further details on the software. Some information pages include a screen shot and user generated reviews. We can queue software to be added to or removed from the system with the click of a button. Queued items are processed in the background while we continue to use the package manager. We can view the actions currently queued and remove them if we wish. I enjoy the Software Manager's approach to managing items, I find it intuitive and quick. My only complaint was that each time I queued an action the system prompted me for my password, which can get repetitive when downloading or removing several packages at a time. The other package manager provided in Mint's default install is Synaptic. The older package manager is quite capable and flexible. Though it doesn't try to be as novice friendly as the Software Manager, it is a solid application and I encountered no problems while using it.
The Linux Mint application menu comes with a collection of popular software. Included on the DVD we find the Firefox web browser, the Thunderbird e-mail client and LibreOffice. The Pidgin instant messaging client is installed for us, as are the IRC XChat program and the Transmission BitTorrent client. Creating and configuring network connections is handled using Network Manager. We also find a document viewer, the GNU Image Manipulation Program and a disc burner in the menu. Mint comes with an array of media players including Banshee, Totem, VLC and MPlayer. These players are equipped with popular multimedia codecs and we find the Flash plugin is installed for us. The distribution comes with a number of small admin utilities for managing the firewall, performing backups, blocking domains, trouble-shooting the network and uploading files. Running either MATE or Cinnamon provides us with a corresponding control panel where we can adjust the appearance and behaviour of our desktop. Digging in deeper we find Java is installed on the system, the GNU Compiler Collection is included and Mint comes with version 3.2 of the Linux kernel.
Playing around with the available software I didn't find many surprises. Programs ran and, for the most part, acted as I expected them to. Everything in this release appears to be stable, probably because any serious bugs in the original Ubuntu packages had over a month to be fixed prior to my downloading Mint. I did notice a few unusual choices. One is that Firefox uses Yahoo as its default search engine. Usually, in other distributions, we see Google or DuckDuckGo at the top of the list. Yahoo worked just as well for me as the next search giant, so functionally I don't think it made a difference. The other odd item is that when running the backup tool the default folder it backs up is the /root folder, not the user's home folder. Likewise, backup archives are, by default, saved to /root. This setting is easily changed, but it struck me as an odd default. Otherwise running applications on Mint was "business as usual".
I ran Linux Mint on two physical machines, one was a desktop box featuring a 2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM and NVIDIA video card. The other was my HP laptop which has a dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, an Intel video card and Intel wireless card. On both machines Mint performed very well. Boot times were short, the desktop was responsive, regardless of whether I was logged into Cinnamon or MATE. I found using either desktop environment used around 150 MB or less RAM. My wireless card picked up nearby networks automatically, sound volume was set to a medium level and my screens were set to their maximum resolution. I also tried running Mint in a virtual machine and found the distro worked quite well in VirtualBox. One concern I had going into this review was the note on Mint's website stating Cinnamon requires 3D support from the video card. However, despite the fact one of my installs was in a virtual machine and both of my test machines have low-end cards, Cinnamon worked quite well. I did note launching a virtual terminal in the virtual machine did result in invisible text (which could be fixed in the virtual terminal's settings), but otherwise Cinnamon got along well with my minimal graphics hardware.
Linux Mint 13 - Cinnamon desktop and application menu
(full image size: 208kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Thus far my experience with Mint 13 in general, and the Cinnamon desktop in particular, has been positive. All of my hardware was supported out of the box, multimedia worked without hunting down additional packages, the applications available in the default install were ones I found useful and I liked the Mint package manager and update manager. If one pokes at Cinnamon enough there are little differences which separate it from GNOME, but I think Cinnamon is close enough to the legacy GNOME desktop many people will not notice the difference. As I mentioned in my review of Mageia, it is nice to see a desktop use modern technology while presenting basic, familiar features. Cinnamon is doing just that and my first impression of the environment is a good one.
I don't like to throw around the term "just works" all that often as I feel it gets overused. However, for me at least, that is what Linux Mint 13 has done, worked. I've been using it for a week now, I've applied over 200 package updates, made use of multimedia applications, browsed the web, tweaked settings, edited documents and I have yet to experience any problems, even something as minor as an application crash. The distribution has done a good job of being easy to use while staying out of my way, with the combined Mint and Ubuntu repositories I have over 38,000 software packages available and the user manual is both clearly written and detailed. Additionally, since Mint is binary compatible with Ubuntu, users have the option of making use of Ubuntu One services and PPA repositories. Mint provides an impressive set of features on a stable base which will be supported for the next five years. It is a very attractive distribution in my opinion.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
openSUSE 12.2 delay, Debian Multimedia controversy, Puppy multi-user variant, SolusOS interview
 The usually reliable openSUSE development process has run into an expected wall last week, just as it was about to enter the final stages before the release of version 12.2. The H Online reports in "Wake up call for openSUSE as 12.2 is delayed": "According to openSUSE Community Manager Jos Poortvliet, the release candidate for 12.2 is unlikely to go out today as previously scheduled and the planned release date of openSUSE 12.2, 11 July, is also unlikely to be kept to. Poortvliet says that this and the email by Kulow 'serves as a wake up call for openSUSE'. The distribution's problem seems to be that it has attracted many more contributors over time and that its development processes have not scaled. An increasing number of contributors are submitting more and more smaller patches but according to the release manager's assessment, what the distribution really needs is 'a crew of highly experienced core hackers to fix issues all over within a reasonable time frame.'" Jos Poortvliet explains the issues and looks for solutions in a separate post entitled "Where is my 12.2, my Kingdom for a 12.2!"
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 Debian GNU/Linux has often been walking a tightrope between complying with the FSF guidelines for software freedom and the usability of the distribution. As a result, periodic fights over the content of the project's repositories have created tensions in the development community. The latest round concerns Debian Multimedia, a project of Christian Marillat who is a Debian developer, but who maintains the multimedia repository independently of the main distribution. Steven Rosenberg summarises the controversy: "It seems the confusion, in part anyway, is over the fact that Debian Multimedia isn't an 'official' arm of Debian project. And though Christian is himself a Debian developer, Debian Multimedia is his own project and not subject to the same governance as Debian itself. As you follow the thread on the pkg-multimedia maintainers list (again, start here), at issue besides the use of the Debian name and logo is the solicitation of donations and any possible confusion over whether a donation to Debian Multimedia is a donation to the Debian project (which it is not). The reason for Debian Multimedia's existence in the first place is to provide Debian users all the restricted multimedia bits like codecs that prevent a stock Debian system from working with formats such as MP3, MP4, MOV, etc."
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 Puppy Linux, the most popular of the ultra-small Linux distributions on the market, has often been criticised by reviewers for always "running as root" and for disregarding one of the most basic among the UNIX security principles. Now some community members on the project's forum responded with a special Puppy derivative called "Fatdog64", a 64-bit Puppy build with extra applications and, most importantly, an experimental multi-user setup. This beta release includes Linux kernel 3.4.2, SeaMonkey 2.10, Flash Player 11.2.202.236, and numerous bug fixes since alpha 2. From the announcement: "James and myself are happy to announce Fatdog64-600 beta 1. Here are the changes since alpha2: SFS works with multisession; add libdbus_glib; uses BusyBox blkid (faster) instead of util-linux blkid; volume label display on drive icons can be turned off; bug fix with first-time session save; hardinfo patched - does not crash, show Fatdog64 version; Windows-K key is shortcut for xkill (to kill windows apps); new control panel - all system/settings apps are now here; QuickApps - create application shortcuts; urxvt 9.15 (without Perl extension); command-line tool to split Fatdog humongous initrd to standard Puppy initrd for faster USB boot; experimental multi-user (some applications are still broken; some PET packages do not support non-root)."
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 SolusOS has been one of the fastest-growing new distributions on DistroWatch's page-hit ranking charts in recent months. The project, which combines the stability of Debian's "stable" branch with up-to-date software applications, all the while retaining the familiarity of the GNOME 2 desktop, has seemingly captured the hearts of users tired of the current wave of dramatic user interface changes. Ikey Doherty, the founder and lead developer of SolusOS explains the philosophy of the project in this brief interview at Linux and Life: "SolusOS is based on Debian Stable, but includes its own software repository as well as Debian backports. This gives it access to some very new applications (i.e. VLC 2, LibreOffice 3.5.3, Firefox 12.0, etc.) whilst being as stable as possible. We saw no need for having to chase a moving target with testing (rolling release), but rather supplement our own repositories to make the best combination possible. We will support SolusOS 1 until 'Squeeze' is no longer supported. However long before then we will have released SolusOS 2, 'Wheezy'-based, containing our modified GNOME 3. This will enhance fallback mode, with a patched GNOME Session and GNOME Panel, allowing traditional GNOME 2 behaviour in GNOME 3. We've also had huge success in porting the old applet and panel bindings (i.e. Python) to the new GTK+ 3 and D-BUS APIs, meaning for our users GNOME 3 will in every way act and look the same as GNOME 2."
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Distributions for audio recording, multi-distro disk layout
Mic-check asks: I'm thinking about setting up an external Firewire drive or an older AMD Athlon 64-based desktop to host a Linux install dedicated to digital audio recording. I've never used Linux, but I'm quite literate on the PC/OS X side of the room and I was wondering if there is a particular distribution that would lend itself best to DAR and also if there are any apps you're aware of that would function on the same level as say, Steinberg's Cubase. Are there any user communities that would be a good place to start on this subject?
DistroWatch answers: Your best option, especially as you are new to Linux, is to try Ubuntu Studio. It's a Linux distribution specifically targeted at people who are not familiar with Linux and want to work with multimedia. According to the project's website, "Ubuntu Studio is a multimedia editing/creation flavor of Ubuntu. It's built for the GNU/Linux audio, video, and graphic enthusiast or professional. Our aim is to make it more accessible for new users to get into the tools that GNU/Linux has to offer for multimedia creation and production." Hopefully Ubuntu Studio will come with the applications you need. If it doesn't, chances are someone can help you find what you are looking for on the project's forum.
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Dividing-a-disk asks: I want to start trying out new distros, ideally more than one at a time. How should I partition my disk? How big should the partitions be?
DistroWatch answers: First let us look at a recommended layout for one distribution and build from there. Each person will have their own preferences as to the exact size, format and order of partitions. Once you have had some practice you will come to adapt your own approach, but this is what works for me.
First, every distribution needs a root (/) partition where system files, programs, logs and configuration can be stored. Generally I recommend making this partition about 16 GB in size. Some people can get away with less, say 8 GB, and others might prefer larger, but I find around 16 GB allows me to install everything I need with a little room left over. These days I recommend formatting this root (/) partition using the ext4 file system. Next, each machine should have one swap partition. Linux distributions can share a swap partition, so only one is needed per machine, even if you have additional distributions installed. Some people recommend making the swap partition twice the size of the amount of RAM your system has (1 GB of RAM would suggest a 2 GB swap partition). However, I find modern machines rarely use swap at all, so if you have 2 GB or more of memory I suggest making a swap partition equal to the amount of RAM. For instance, if you have 4 GB of RAM try starting with a swap partition that is 4 GB in size. Your swap partition does not require that you format it with a regular file system.
The third partition I suggest making is the /home partition. This is where your personal files are kept. Your documents, music and settings specific to you are kept in /home. Now, if you were experimenting with one distribution at a time I would say you should make the /home partition as big as the remaining space on your hard drive. However, if you want to play with more than one distribution at a time, then you will have to limit the /home partition's space. Earlier I mentioned each distribution needs its own root partition and suggested the root partition be 16 GB in size. With that in mind, for each additional Linux distribution you plan to have installed on your computer at one time, I recommend shrinking the /home partition by 16 GB.
Let's look at it this way, if your total hard drive space is 100 GB, then your root partition takes up the first 16 GB. Now, let's say your swap partition takes another 4 GB. We have used up 20 GB, so there is 80 GB of space remaining. That 80 GB will be used to store your /home partition, plus any additional distributions. If we were to install one more distribution, that would take up another partition of 16 GB. Which means we have 64 GB of space we can set aside for our /home partition. I suggest formatting the /home partition using the ext4 file system. This /home partition can be shared between each of your distributions, meaning your files go with you whichever distribution you boot into. It also means you can remove or install distributions without disturbing your personal files.
| root partition of first OS (16GB) |
swap partition (4GB) |
root partition for second OS (16GB) |
/home partition (remaining space) |
Visual representation of simple multi-distro disk layout.
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| Released Last Week |
Lightweight Portable Security 1.3.5
Lightweight Portable Security (LPS) version 1.3.5, a Linux live CD with a goal of allowing users to work on a computer without the risk of exposing their credentials and private data to malware, has been released. What's new? "Updated Firefox to 10.0.5 ESR; updated Firefox extensions HTTPS Everywhere to version 2.0.5 and NoScript to version 2.4.6; updated Thunderbird to 10.0.5 ESR (Deluxe only); updated Flash to 11.2.202.236, including fixing the library support issue noted in release 1.3.4; updated Encryption Wizard application to 3.3.4; Updated OpenSSL to 0.9.8x; minor bookmark updates, including adding check for updates to major bundled software components; fixed problem with iPhone tethering introduced with iOS 5.1 update; updated Java to 6u33." Here is the complete changelog.
Tails 0.12
Tails (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) is a Debian-based live DVD project with the goal of enabling users to surf the Internet anonymously. Version 0.12 was announced earlier this week: "Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 0.12, is out. Notable user-visible changes include: the unsafe web browser, which has direct access to the Internet and can be used to login to captive portals usually found at libraries, Internet cafés and when using other publicly available Internet connections; Windows camouflage can now be enabled via a check box in Tails greeter - Tails' user interface is unfamiliar to most, which may attract unwanted attention when used in public places, this option makes Tails look more like Microsoft Windows XP in order to raise less suspicion; Tor upgrade to 0.2.2.37; upgrade Iceweasel to 10.0.5...." Read the rest of the release announcement for more details.
Liberté Linux 2012.2
Maxim Kammerer has announced the release of Liberté Linux 2012.2, a secure, lightweight and easy-to-use Gentoo-based live medium with the primary purpose of enabling anyone to communicate safely and covertly in hostile environments: "Release: Liberté Linux 2012.2. A new release has been published on SourceForge. Summary of important changes since the previous release: no executables with PaX exceptions any more; better boot media support (including fixes for SD and USB 3.0); New microhttpd-based cables communication implementation (no protocol changes) - nginx / spawn-fcgi / fcgiwrap integration is gone; VIPS image manipulation toolkit (including nip2 GUI); fixed key retrieval in GNU Privacy Assistant; touchscreen calibration utility. In addition, many packages have been updated - e.g. LXPanel now has working thermal sensor support, and I2P has been upgraded to version 0.9." Here is the brief release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Mageia 3 release schedule
After the recent release of Mageia 2, the developers of the community distribution have taken a look at a calendar and started making plans for the upcoming release, version 3. Anne Nicolas: "Mageia 2 was released 2 weeks ago. The QA and security teams are working hard to fix bugs and provide security updates. It's time now to think about our next release: no rest for the brave! We have now a full plan for Mageia 3, which will be released in March 2013. At the moment, Mageia teams are working hard on specifications for this coming release. In order to improve the way we manage this, a policy for proposals submission has been released. A template is now to be used so that we can make better choices, given the content of these proposals and the resources to be allocated." The first alpha build of Mageia 3 is scheduled to arrive on 4 September 2012 while the final release is expected on 20 March 2013. See this blog post for more information.
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
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New distributions added to database
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Adonis Linux. Adonis Linux is a distribution that aims to branch into multiple flavours. There are some built on Debian GNU/Linux, others on Ubuntu. These flavors aim to be simple yet great to look at. They are a direct result of trying to combine a minimalist attitude with a want for a beautiful desktop to work on. The ultimate goal of this project is to provide a highly customisable system that leaves the user in control of it while maintaining an ease of use that allows even the most novice of users able to accomplish what they set out to do.
- Bitrig. Bitrig is a free, fast, and secure UNIX-like open-source operating system based on OpenBSD. It is available on current hardware platforms.
- DeniX OS. DeniX OS is a Fedora respin with packages from RPMFusion and other repositories. The goal is to simplify the installation and setup, a system with multimedia support, wider range of programs and applications.
- Instant WebKiosk. Instant WebKiosk is a browser-only "live" operating system based on Debian GNU/Linux and designed for use in web kiosks, multi-user workstations (cafès, offices, schools, hotels) and digital signature deployments.
- JfLinux. JfLinux is a new Java-infused Linux-based operating system where most of the applications are written in Java. There are applications for everything - from the installer to the dock and the media player.
- Linux-Bro. Linux-Bro is an Ubuntu-based distribution featuring a customized user directory that takes as little space as possible, panels and menus arranged in a GNOME 2 style, and other useful and user-friendly enhancements.
- Linux Regal. Linux Regal is an Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution.
- MLIPenguin-OS. MLIPenguin-OS is an Italian Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 25 June 2012. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Mint Cinnamon (by mandog on 2012-06-18 10:04:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
That was a very positive review. The Mint team has done a good job with Cinnamon. But no doubt some regulars will still insist its just a re-spin.
I myself will not use it as a main desktop as I roll my own with arch as a base and Gnome Shell + testing for Cinnamon-Git. I do have MInt 13 installed but when grub appears I go for Arch/slackware for some reason just personal choice
2 • packages? who cares about number of packages? (by greg on 2012-06-18 10:13:02 GMT from Slovenia)
"over 38,000 software packages" - i keep hearing about this. it's a useless piece of informaiton for the user. The real qestion is how many programmes/applications (or apps for those that want to be cool) are available? Oblivion is one game but comes with many packages that need to be installed. i don't really care about them much.
it's equally "missleading" in software center/manager it will say how many then there is a number are available. turns out that large number are packages. If you go to games there arent actually 1400+ games available but rather only a few (even fewer good ones). well actually close to 100.
3 • Mint Cinnamon (by Marc Visscher on 2012-06-18 10:27:03 GMT from Netherlands)
I think at this moment Linux Mint is the most attractive Linux-distro available, and even more preferable for novice users than Ubuntu is these days. And really... it just works (like it supposed to be, in my humble opinion!) If Linux on the desktop wants to get a bigger user base and a wider audience, Linux Mint shows us how to do it.
I really like the path Linux Mint is going! First with Cinnamon and MATE, now the Mintbox... Clement Lefebvre is doing a great job!
4 • Mint Cinnamon (by Wine Curmudgeon on 2012-06-18 10:55:04 GMT from United States)
That's about the same experience I had. I needed something to run until the next Elementary is ready, and Cinnamon does the job. Sometimes, just works is all you need.
5 • Debian Multimedia Controversy (by Xaver on 2012-06-18 11:04:04 GMT from Austria)
On reading the thread on the mailinglist regarding the "problems" with Marrilat's Debian Multimedia, I'm left with the impression that Mr. Zacchiroli and some other people have much too much time on their hands.
Debian Multimedia just works and always just worked.
But of course that's enough reason to immediately find some fault with and sabotage it ... one should have seen it coming:
Now that the desktop has been "improved" beyond usability, it's the turn of other parts of the Linux Environment.
Timeo developers improvements ferentes :(((
6 • Bitrig (by david on 2012-06-18 11:20:33 GMT from United States)
It's good to see another OpenBSD derivative.
7 • Audio Recording Distribution (by Angel Candelaria on 2012-06-18 11:25:13 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Another good multimedia/recording distribution suitable for beginners is AV Linux. It comes pretty much ready to run, and includes a lot of useful software to record and edit audio.
8 • An appeal for an endangered species, (by Antony on 2012-06-18 11:33:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
The recent fracturing of the official project and the lack of any clear official direction/information has seen a corresponding plummeting down, and out of the Distrowatch top 100 hits per day chart, with Pardus now being listed as dormant.
A lot of people will by now 'accept' that Pardus (as we knew it) is no more. A lot of enthusiastic ex-users will have moved on.
Yes, there is still an official project, but its immediate focus is on the corporate side. There is though, a passionate community-driven effort which is focused on the 'desktop/home' Pardus. But I think they could benefit from some publicity; for people to be aware of the current situation and the actual work that has so far been achieved and to try to attract more support/volunteers.
Perhaps the more than casual ex-users of Pardus will still be keeping an eye on things anyway, and there may not be much of a target audience - I don't know. But one of the hurdles (biggest?) for developers and prospective users of a particular project is language/communication and I think at this 'embryonic' phase there is a lot of activity going on in the 'shell' - but not fully broadcast to the outside world, or even to fairly close observers.
Anyway, hope you don't mind me posting this but I think the future of one of the most promising and innovative distributions of recent years (to my mind at least), is important. Pardus is not 'just another respin' - it was its own distro and demonstrated real innovation and great quality and attention to detail and I think it would therefore be a real loss to Linux if Pardus disappeared.
Perhaps some readers might consider to check out the Pardus Worldforum? They really could use some help.
Thanks.
9 • @3 (by Arkanabar on 2012-06-18 11:35:53 GMT from United States)
That's the thing we ACTUALLY learn from the DW HPD rankings -- which distros are most interesting to people seeking a new Linux distro. Mint has earned its place at the top.
10 • Mint Cinnamon (by NetbookUser on 2012-06-18 11:37:10 GMT from Canada)
I also agree with the review. I immediately felt that everything just works. All the apps I needed were installed. I also find the black screen booting disconcerting. I'm using an atom netbook and the performance is slow. It sometimes takes a few seconds for the menu to appear. The whole desktop also crashes a lot. I can't play videos smoothly. My guess is my 3d driver isn't good enough. If I try to open windows exe with mono runtime, it never does anything. CAD programs in wine don't work at all. The update notifications work for me, there's a little i and if you hover, it says xxx updates available. There's a problem with tooltips not placed properly and unreadable. I'll try Mate, hopefully it's more stable.
11 • the right thing at the right time? (by meanpt on 2012-06-18 11:39:39 GMT from Portugal)
Not being neither a user nor a fanboy of opensuse, when such an important distribution leaves the bandwagon rush release while seeking to rethink its design and building model, it can only impress me and get my respect.
12 • @#3: Mint Cinnamon (by dragonmouth on 2012-06-18 11:41:31 GMT from United States)
I agree that Mint is the distro for novice users, BUT ONLY if used as installed by default. Once the user tries to make changes to the system, it ceases to "simply work". An example would be the uninstall of unneeded/unwanted packages. Most packages are integrated into the core system and the removal of any of then results in making the system unusable.
Mint (and Ubuntu) by default install dozens of language packs, drivers for dozens of printers and video cards. Which is fine as it allows all users to have a system in their own language and their hardware. However, once the desired language and drivers are installed, why force the user to keep 200, 300 and sometimes 400 megs of superfluous software on the drive? The user should be able to uninstall that software.
13 • Multi-distro box (by Paul on 2012-06-18 12:11:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'd advise against having a shared home partition. This can lead to conflicts between applications from different distros. A much cleaner, albeit slightly more complicated, approach is to have a home partition per distro and a dedicated data partition. Works for me very well.
Linux Today has more detail - http://www.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/08/painless-linux.html
14 • @12 (by greg on 2012-06-18 12:11:12 GMT from Slovenia)
i haven't tried unistalling and i don't think newbie would do it. I think MS does something similar (not sure) i.e puts some drivers that are not actually used on disk.
anyway i did a quick math and 400MB would cost the user about 3 cents (mabye even less). i am not really sure this used disk space is actually an issue. unless you have a 90's era maschine with HDD from that age. in which case Mint is probably not the way to go.
and look at it from another angle - you add a new hardware and it has a biogger chance to be plug any play.
15 • @12 • @#3: Mint Cinnamon (by mandog on 2012-06-18 12:44:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
That goes for any Linux distro if the core app you want to remove requires a explicit shared lib.
16 • Q@A: dividing disk (by Luiz on 2012-06-18 13:15:31 GMT from Brazil)
First of all, congratulations about the weekly news!
About "dividing-a-disk", a comment: if you have two distros installed and a single /home directory, as pictured, you'd may run into problems if some distro's config files conflict with the equivalent of one other distro.
I had this problem with Mandriva 2007.1 and Slackware (don't recall the exact version), both sharing KDE 3.5 both installed at the same machine, some time ago.
I found better to have "n" /home directories, one for each distro. There, a single link to a "/var/local/data" "data" partition was set up as ~/data, which ideally would hold only the user's "data", excluding the "configuration". Of course, this generates also some problems, such as programs having two "identities" when called from one or other distro, but the "data" can be managed to be unique.
Not perfect, draws some extra effort, but it worked reasonable well in that case.
17 • @13, @16 partition layout (by Alexandru on 2012-06-18 13:49:16 GMT from Romania)
I always do this way: let configurations to be per-distro while using common data-only partition.
One more reason: along Linux there exist another OSes that can access linux filesystem, namely FreeBSD and Haiku. If all them are installed in one machine, configurations have a good chance to conflict among them.
18 • Multi-distro setup (by octathlon on 2012-06-18 14:23:48 GMT from United States)
We should also mention that you will want to make an Extended partition so that you can have more than 4 total partitions to allow for more than 2 distros.
Like #13, I have always kept a separate data partition and let /home stay with the / partition of each distro. Having your application config settings maintained separately for each distro is both the safety feature and a bit of a pain (have to set up links and edit fstab, and have to re-apply settings in each distro), but seems like the best way.
However, when I got my new laptop last month and installed Ubuntu 12.04, I got lazy and just went ahead and mapped my data partition as /home, thinking I wouldn't bother with any other distros. But Mint is looking so good that now I want to install it. I'm hoping that sharing /home between Ubuntu and Mint should not cause any conflicts, since after all Mint is based on Ubuntu.
19 • mint and other distros (by walter_j on 2012-06-18 14:53:26 GMT from Canada)
I'm using mint 11 and 12 at work, and am happy with both. I have ubuntu 12.04 on a partition at home, but only occasionally try it. I'm unsure how long mint 11 will be supported, but thats ok, since 12 also works fine. Good review - I've had the same experience as jessie.
I'd like to suggest another distro I've been curious about: 2X Thin Client. Or do you need hardware specific for such a distro?
20 • multi boot partitioning (by Joseph on 2012-06-18 14:53:39 GMT from United States)
I have kept my data separate from the operating system for the last 10 years by keeping it on an external drive. This improves reliability of data storage because the external drive only experiences reads/writes when I call for data instead of both when I call for data and the operating system does. I believe the drive lasts longer the less frequently it is accessed. I can also change operating systems reliably by simply unplugging my data drive without worry about losing data.
21 • @2 packages? who cares about number of packages? (by Stuart on 2012-06-18 15:05:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
I (and many others) do care about the number of software packages. Desktop Linux is a system for developers, and so I want access to development software, software libraries, and all sorts of software which isn't a program to an end user.
The Linux world does not begin and end with the Ubuntu Software Center.
22 • @13, @16 (by Patrick on 2012-06-18 15:26:35 GMT from United States)
I also use this approach. I used to do the shared /home thing but it caused problems. Other than having a ~/Data symlink pointing to my separate data partition, I also change the default ~/Documents, ~/Downloads, ~/Music, ~/Pictures, etc folders to symlinks that point to corresponding folders in ~/Data. Seems to work very well. I also use symlinks to have a common mailbox between distros, it works as long as I'm careful to have similar mailer versions between installs.
23 • Re:#7, Audio Recording Distribution (by Apostrophe on 2012-06-18 15:34:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree. AV Linux has a tweaked real-time kernel for better performance of demanding a/v applications. It also receives lots of praise in the reviews of specialist magazines. I'm not so sure though, how beginner friendly AV Linux is. Ubuntu Studio is possibly a more universal and newbie friendly distribution.
An excellent source of information on the subject is Dave Phillips' series of audio articles in Linux Journal ...
http://www.linuxjournal.com/users/dave-phillips
... although they're written from a musician's perspective, they cover the whole range of music production, (multitrack-) audio recording, audio effects, audio restoration, music notation and so on. Very recommended reading.
24 • Debian Multimedia Controversy (by Ron on 2012-06-18 16:49:35 GMT from United States)
I think Debian should just go back to older ways. The distributions seen as certified free software barely even make the ranks here on tis site. Why you may ask? Because people expect the system to work and gimping drivers and whatnot is not a easy way to attract people to your brand.
Debian used to be one of my favorite. When they started stripping the Kernel in order to appease the "purists" I stopped using it. Been using one form or another of GNU/Linux since about 1999. I don't want to regress back to days trying to get my hardware working when there are plenty of distributions that always work out the box.
Going back to a purist was of thinking is a step backwards. Just concentrate on making your system easy to use and maintain the geekyness that has always been Debian and you will do fine. Try and conform to the purists and nice knowing you and you will hit a rank over 100 on DW and Ubuntu with becaome the new Debian. Please don't do this!
25 • Black_screen_in-Linuxmint_boot@10 (by gee7 on 2012-06-18 18:58:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Like some other users, I'm not too keen on seeing a black screen on boot.
It's a minor quibble, though. As said earlier, this distro deserves to be number one on Distro Watch. It's really easy to use. I wish teachers would get it into classrooms - it deserves a place in education and would be a lot more useful there than Microsoft systems.
To see grub bootsplash info, I guess you need to edit /etc/default/grub using the command line:
sudo pluma /etc/default/grub
if your text editor is Pluma as in Maya Mate.
Changing the line:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
to
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=""
and then saving and closing the file, before giving the update command in the terminal:
sudo update-grub
This does the trick but there appear to be 2 pages of boot messages, the first easy to read and the second a blur of speed. Not being a coder, I have no idea on how to slow this page of boot info so that it can be read with ease. Perhaps taking a speed reading course would help :-)
But at least this shows the user that the system is being booted.
26 • Re: 13 • Multi-distro box (by Jim on 2012-06-18 21:27:11 GMT from United States)
I agree with Paul and the others. Sharing a /home partition can lead to conflicts and permission problems. If you use the shared data partition as suggested, then there's really no need for separate /home partitions. Just keep /home within the root (/) partition.
27 • Request for future DW: Privacy distros (by Jim on 2012-06-18 21:28:25 GMT from United States)
I've noticed several distributions that take different approaches to protecting users' privacy, such as Tails, Privatix, Liberté and Ubuntu Privacy Remix.
For a future DW, could you do a rundown of some of these, maybe going over which work best for different situations?
28 • Good for openSUSE (by AnklefaceWroughtlandmire on 2012-06-18 21:29:42 GMT from Ecuador)
Well, I'm glad to see that openSUSE is identifying these issues and working to resolve them, instead of just ignoring serious infrastructure issues like some distros tend to do. openSUSE has always struck me as a very practical, pragmatic, and extremely professional offering, and I plan to stick with it.
29 • Confusion over Debian multimedia (by Ralph on 2012-06-18 21:50:44 GMT from Canada)
In the blog article on Debian given above, Rosenberg says he is not confused. But I think he is. He seems to think that the default install of Debian (with no nonfree and contrib repos) will not play mp3 and mp4 files. But it will, and a lot of multimedia formats can be played once you have installed, say, VLC from the free repo. The nonfree and/or contrib repos will contain the proprietary Nvidia driver (but not the latest, which you can get from the Nvidia website), Adobe flashplayer and proprietary wireless firmware. What you can get from Marilatt's unofficial repo, however, is libdvdcss (for playback of encypted DVDs), some video and audio encoding (as opposed to decoding) software like x264 and transcode, and Adobe Acrobat Reader. (In fact, both x264 and transcode are now in the testing repo, so I don't know what is going on here.) So really, a Debian install without Marilatt's packages is not as bad as Rosenberg makes out.
Another source of confusion (which Rosenberg does not mention) is that there is an official "DebianMultimedia" site which has nothing to do with Marilatt.
30 • Re: Multi-distro setup (by Thomas Mueller on 2012-06-19 02:34:20 GMT from United States)
Even better than an extended partition is GPT, where you can have 128 partitions by default, and optionally more. In GPT, there is no distinction between primary and extended partitions. GPT is useful especially with the newer big hard drives, overcomes the 2 TB limit for traditional fdisk/MBR partitioning.
31 • "Dividing-a-disk asks" (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2012-06-19 04:05:07 GMT from United States)
Multiple booting of Linux distros to find the best one for a given use case is a highly risky and wasteful effort. It's a lot easier to take the existing Windows or Macintosh machine, install VirtualBox on it and boot up the distros to be evaluated in virtual machines. When you find the one that best meets your needs, *then* go through all the hassles of clearing space for a swap partition, the distro itself and possibly a shared data partition with the machine's main install.
32 • Shared /home (by Branjdon Sniadajewski on 2012-06-19 11:45:42 GMT from United States)
If you want to have a shared /home partition for multiple OSes, it's best to have separate accounts for each distro on your system. Having a separate partition for shared data is also recommended.
33 • @24 debian and purists (by Julian on 2012-06-19 12:38:30 GMT from Satellite Provider)
Most of the non-purists either left debian or never used it. I am using debian but I'd switch to ubuntu or mint in a heartbeat if they offered better support for my hardware. While i am not a purist I value what they do for us. They don't need to give us yet another Ubuntu since we have plenty of those. But keeping free software free isn't a bad thing. If we don't, we might see programs and OSes that dont actually WORK unless you pay for some proprietary component.
34 • dividing disk/separate 'home' partition (by notsure on 2012-06-19 13:15:37 GMT from United States)
You could try this:
let's say you want ubuntu and slackware. create 4 partitions:
/ for ubuntu
/ for slackware
swap (if wanted)
/data
Install ubuntu, then slackware, mounting /data in each
mkdir -p /data/{ubuntu,slack}/USERNAME
Log into ubuntu:
cp -rfp /home/USERNAME/{.*,*} /data/ubuntu/USERNAME
chown -R USERNAME /data/ubuntu
ln -s /data/ubuntu/USERNAME/ubuntu USERNAME
Rinse and Repeat for slackware
Then, all your data and User configs are in 1 partition with backups being non-trivial and clean installs less cumbersome.
hope this helps.
35 • @34, correction (by notsure on 2012-06-19 13:17:55 GMT from United States)
Log into ubuntu:
cp -rfp /home/USERNAME/{.*,*} /data/ubuntu/USERNAME/
chown -R USERNAME /data/ubuntu
ln -s /data/ubuntu/ /home/USERNAME
sorry 'bout that.
36 • Mint Mate (by netbookuser on 2012-06-19 13:40:56 GMT from Canada)
After having tried Cinnamon, I've now tried Mate. It seems faster, videos play smoothly now. I miss not being able to right click a drive and see how much space is free. Don''t know about the other bugs yet, but being able to play videos means I'm keeping it for a while. If you're using a notebook, you might try Mate. Also going to give Zorin a try.
37 • Audio Recording Distribution (by Jawara on 2012-06-19 15:18:54 GMT from United States)
Audio Recording Distribution:
Ubuntustudio: Comes with XFCE Desktop
http://ubuntustudio.org/
KXStudio: Comes with KDE4 and XFCE
http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Main_Page
DreamStudio: Comes with Unity desktop
http://dream.dickmacinnis.com/forum/
When you say Cuabase like application, i assume you mean an Audio/MIDI application.
The best i think on Linux thus far is Qtractor, but Ardour 3 is Coming.
I am using a combination of UbuntuStudio and KXStudio with Gnome 3 Desktop with a lowlatency kernel.
38 • Freed OS's - Zealotry vs The Duly Cautious (by Somewhat Reticent on 2012-06-19 16:46:59 GMT from United States)
When purveyors of software refuse to respect a user's choice of hardware or (other) software, whether self-professed freedom zealots or proprietary shills, the effect is the same.
When seeking an OS, I first rule out those who rule my choices out, then seek those which most carefully contain and control any compromising code. Recent efforts to separate compromised code from system cores meant enduring several years of frustration, but we're all better off for it. Like Fedora, DebIan reached high goals, and deserve our support, respect and allegiance. I would hate to see them backslide now.
Of course, I'm also encouraged to see alpha and beta systems finally working (OutOfTheBox) on my not-getting-any-younger hardware. I have every reason to hope that the freed-software community will easily accommodate recent years' hardware proliferation, while keeping it on tight reins.
After all, constant vigilance is always necessary, not only to protect the freedoms we have, but to assure that any concession continues to deliver sufficient benefit to deserve our tolerance.
39 • Ubuntu is Debian. (by Ulf on 2012-06-19 17:17:19 GMT from Netherlands)
@ 37 why recommend 3 diferent distro`s?
All are ubuntu EG Debian,
Take Debian, and install the progs you need.
KISS;
Keep
It
Stupid
Simple
Greetings from the real unix Geek.
40 • Mint MATE (by claudecat on 2012-06-19 17:49:40 GMT from United States)
I have installed and tested both MATE and Cinnamon versions of Mint and for me, MATE is the keeper. Cinnamon just doesn't feel finished yet, and still lacks some configuration options. MATE puts you right back into the Mint 9-11 era - which is a good thing.
I enjoyed the review, but it should be noted that the MATE iso gives you the mintmenu rather than the traditional gnome-style menu that Jesse apparently got by default when installing MATE alongside of Cinnamon.
41 • @2 Number of Packages (by Johannes on 2012-06-19 18:52:00 GMT from Germany)
« Who cares about number of packages? » "over 38,000 software packages"
Thank you for this comment. I have been using CentOS for months, and as far as I can tell, not only the amount of available packages is important, but also how "fresh" they are.
Definitely a problem with Debian stable, RHEL / CentOS and such.
Mint ist an exeptional distro, but some nasty bugs keep me from using it...
42 • LinuxMint development (by DR. GONZO on 2012-06-19 20:55:35 GMT from United States)
One of my favorite Mint "flavors" (horrible pun fully intended) is the very fast "flux box" spin of Mint 9. I'd like to see it brought current with the latest kernel, packages, etc. as was LMDE a few months ago.
43 • @33 - keeping free software free (by Xaver on 2012-06-20 09:27:05 GMT from Austria)
"But keeping free software free isn't a bad thing. If we don't, we might see programs and OSes that dont actually WORK unless you pay for some proprietary component."
This point can't be emphasized enough. The danger of this happening is very real and closer than one might like to believe.
44 • @21 Packages (by DavidEF on 2012-06-20 20:28:17 GMT from United States)
I care about packages, and I'm not a developer. I think it's just fine for someone to not care about packages, and it should also be just fine for those of us who do care. My 11-year-old daughter doesn't care about packages, but I sometimes find I need to access some functionality that isn't a "program" per se. I like how your last sentence puts it:
"The Linux world does not begin and end with the Ubuntu Software Center."
Ubuntu was not the first, nor latest to ship with this particular style "Software Manager" and there's nothing wrong with the idea, but give me Synaptic any day!
45 • Great Mint review (by Mintguy on 2012-06-20 23:27:30 GMT from New Zealand)
This review mirrors my experience with Mint. It is **outstanding**.
Nice clean design, rock-solid feel, and it just "stays out of your way" so you can get things done.
Also good to see an OpenBSD derivative in Bitrig. Very best wishes to them!
46 • why use linux (by david on 2012-06-21 12:23:14 GMT from United States)
Could somebody tell me why they choose mint, ubuntu, magia, etc. I understand that these distros are well supported and have gui's for everything. But what's the point?
Do you choose linux because you can tweak it to your hearts desire, or is it because you want to be different but still have a distro that is windows like.
If one visits the forums of said distros one will immediately come to the conclusion that the user base is novice for the most part.
I am not saying this is a bad thing but it does present a paradox within the linux community.
47 • @46 why use linux? (by Marco on 2012-06-21 16:19:01 GMT from United States)
Why use Linux:
My two use cases (I find myself generally favoring Kubuntu since 11.10):
1. Segregate all my personal usage and virtually all access to the Internet from my work laptop by running Linux virtual machines as guests. The Win7 host only accesses the company intranet, and a very small number of reasonably safe sites.
2. Avoid malware on my home computers, which are accessible to the children by running a live USB.
I think these use cases attracted a non-techie like me. And non-techies can contribute bug reports, improve documentation, and point newbies in the right direction. There are more ways to giving back than to commit code.
48 • @46 Why I choose Ubuntu (by DavidEF on 2012-06-21 17:08:10 GMT from United States)
david,
I started using linux in 2005, with Ubuntu. I had already tried OpenSuse and Redhat, and could not get either to install on my hardware. I had a dial-up internet, and a whole cd download would take over 7 days, downloading 24 hours per day! I got the Redhat CD from a friend, and my brother had downloaded the OpenSuse CD, burned it, and mailed it to me. I wanted linux because I heard it was highly configurable and not prone to crashing and/or needing to be defragged, decluttered, reinstalled, or whatever every few months like XP (my real-life experience, not made up.) I had no delusion that it would be "windows like", nor did I care for it to be.
I searched until I found Ubuntu, and their Ship-It service. They sent me a free CD by slow boat (took about a month) and I booted up linux for the first time. I cut my "linux teeth" on Ubuntu with Gnome. I've since tried other distros, especially after I got dsl internet. I've played around with Puppy, DSL (back when they spelled out what DSL stands for), Vector, Fedora, Mandriva, Lindows, various *buntu spins, remixes, and derivatives, Toorox, 64 Studio, PureDyne, and many others, but I continue to find that Ubuntu meets my needs well enough that there is no benefit to switching. I like it. I even like the infamous Unity desktop. My wife is using Mint with Cinnamon because she prefers the Gnome2-like interface.
I'm not a highly technical user. I like to learn, and I've had many problems that have caused me to need to learn. But, overall, I'll keep my linux problems over going back to Windows. At least the linux problems generally have a reason that I can understand and sometimes fix, other times work around. I don't think having an influx of newbies is a problem, as long as those newbies are willing to roll up their sleeves a little and learn that Linux is a new and different OS, not a "free Windows". Hope this helps answer your burning question.
49 • @46 Why I choose Ubuntu (by mcellius on 2012-06-21 19:11:58 GMT from United States)
I started using Linux a little over a year ago, just about the time Ubuntu 11.04 came out. I knew about Linux through reading computer news, as i worked in IT supporting Windows desktops and networks. I had seen Linux on the desktops of others - but I had no idea about different desktop environments on Linux. I was impressed, though, that sometimes when I needed something done, it seemed that it was always the Linux people who could do things on and over the network that just couldn't be done on Windows. I was very familiar with working with the DOS and OS/2 command lines, so that aspect of Linux didn't frighten me.
So now, no longer working in IT, I was getting frustrated with Windows. Too many security issues of all sorts, too much need to keep buying new versions, too little ability to customize in significant ways (although I was a big user of Stardock's Object Desktop which allowed me to customize to the maximum degree possible), etc. I was just tired of and bored with Windows.
So I decided to get and install Linux. The only versions I could name were Fedora, OpenSUSE, and RedHat, so I began looking at them online. In the process I heard of Ubuntu and learned that it was not only popular, but also seemed to be designed for those new to Linux. Although I was computer-savvy, I was new to Linux, so I decided to give it a try.
I liked it from the beginning, and I've learned a lot. In the past thirteen months I've tried maybe fifty or sixty distros and every desktop environment I could find, and I no longer use Windows on my home computers. Linux lets me do everything I want. It's as easy as I might want, yet as involved and complex as I might need. I can change just about everything and get in deep under the hood when I find that desirable. And after installing and trying so many distros, I keep coming back to Ubuntu because it does seem to me to be the perfect mix of techie and simple.
But Linux to me is not a distro, or hundreds of distros: it's the kernel, the open-source philosophy, the helpful community, etc. Ubuntu is Linux, but so are all the others.
50 • Why use Linux? (by fernbap on 2012-06-21 21:45:55 GMT from Portugal)
I could name a lot of reasons to use Linux:
No viruses, no need to an antivirus
It is stable, no more Blue Screen of Death
Virtually every application a typical user will ever need for free
Pay nothing for a OS that actually works, and do it legally
But THE main reason why i use Linux, you will only find out after you try it:
Linux is fun.
That's it.
51 • @46 (by Mac on 2012-06-21 21:47:02 GMT from United States)
Been in Linux for about 10yrs. now and some of the people here make me look like a beginner. I use Debian KDE and Kubuntu. Low fat settings on all. Why ????
Have Fun
Mack
52 • opeSUSE-Puppy-Why (by Landor on 2012-06-22 02:39:10 GMT from Canada)
openSUSE:
It seems really odd that after increasing their release cycle they still have to halt and deal with stuff.
Puppy:
When I read the comment here (last week?) about Puppy now dealing with the non-root issue it seemed as if it was an official fix, now it's a community fix. Also, wasn't Barry and crew supposedly working on some way to fix it? Will this issue ever really get officially resolved? I personally don't think so.
Why:
The whole why questions smacks as trolling in my opinion. Is there any reason anyone would have to ask why? Seriously? You either use it or you don't, for your own reasons. Who cares what anyone else does, and why. It's gotta be a troll. If not, the question is regardless. Pointless, nothing else.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
53 • Puppy's Peer Pressure (by DavidEF on 2012-06-22 13:14:42 GMT from United States)
@52 Landor,
Puppy running as a single root user was a design decision from the first. Puppy was never meant to be an installed OS, but a convenient little runs-in-RAM live CD. It has since matured and changes have been made along the way. The "community fix" is not a "fix" at all. It is a re-spin or remix for those who might find it useful.
I think Puppy linux has more re-spins and derivatives than Ubuntu, because of the extremely modular nature of the project, and the encouragement from Barry for people to make it their own, use it however they like, have fun with it, and share what they do with others. This is just another one of those community spins.
We in the linux community at large have been beat over the head so much about protecting the root account that we seem to have forgotten that the greatest security risk is between the keyboard and the chair. We give people sudo power using their own user password, automatic login to the desktop, and other modern conveniences, just so they can BYPASS security, and get on with what they WANT to do, all the while thinking they're safe because they're not logged in as root.
I'm not assuming you're party to any of this, or that you agree with any of it. I'm just stating that linux security depends on the user having a brain. It always has, and hopefully always will. The only alternative is the Windows model of having anti-malware programs eating up resources 24/7 to "protect" us from the bad guys.
54 • RE: 53 (by Landor on 2012-06-22 14:53:11 GMT from Canada)
#53
Why would you even bring up another operating system. I find it ironic that you did though. It proved that you really didn't know what you were trying to talk about. Running as root and given ultimate powers on the other OS' are exactly the same thing.
Yet here you are talking down the scaled down privileges of sudo, and a password. I haven't read anything so disturbing in a long time. You need to take a more serious look at trying to understand security, and risks involved before defending running a wide open system as root.
WoW.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
55 • Deepin (by Hassle on 2012-06-22 15:29:26 GMT from Ireland)
ONE MORE TIME : as it seems to be very difficult to understand ....
There's an international version of Deepin, new release coming up very soon :
http://www.linuxdeepin.com/download
reg.
Hassle
56 • @54 (by DavidEF on 2012-06-22 15:30:20 GMT from United States)
Landor,
Perhaps I am a little bit ignorant on the subject of security, because I totally missed the point of what you just said. I will try to catch a couple things and respond to them. Tell me if I misunderstood you.
"Running as root and given ultimate powers on the other OS' are exactly the same thing."
I disagree. There is a lot more to security than whether a person is running as root or not. The problem with the "other OS" (I guess you're talking about Windows) is that it started as a single-user system, then added multiple user capability without changing the security model. What Barry has done with Puppy linux is just the opposite. He took a true multi-user system, and made it single user, also without significantly changing the security model. While addressing this subject, can we just look momentarily at the term "single user"? If I'm running a "single user" system, am I not "root", no matter what you call it?
"You need to take a more serious look at trying to understand security, and risks involved before defending running a wide open system as root."
Well, you may be right, that I need to look at security more seriously, but I still disagree with the assertion you make in this statement, that the fact of running as root, taken by itself, is a major security threat. You seem to believe that running as root negates all other security measures. I think it doesn't. In fact, you equate running as root with being "wide open" as if the two are inseparable. I think they aren't. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm definitely open to the possibility that I am.
57 • Why Linux and security (by Jesse on 2012-06-22 16:56:50 GMT from Canada)
I run Linux because it does what I want it to do. It's inexpensive, it comes with lots of great development tools, much of the software I need is installed by default and running Linux avoids many malware threats. Perhaps the biggest reason though is package management. Hunting down and installing software and dependencies on other OSes is a huge waste of time. With most Linux distros it's a simple matter of going to the package manager, selecting the appropriate category and clicking the download button.
>> " In fact, you equate running as root with being "wide open" as if the two are inseparable. I think they aren't. Maybe I'm wrong."
The two often go hand in hand, but they are definitely separable. Several years ago a developer (I think he worked with Red Hat) set up a Fedora installation and gave everyone root access to the box.. It stayed uncompromised for weeks. It was a test of SELinux, to see if the kernel modifications could be used to protect a system even when the root account was compromised.
Security is all about layers. Not running as root is one of those layers, but there are many others.
58 • root security (by notsure on 2012-06-22 17:37:23 GMT from United States)
running a 'single user system' does not imply that you don't make yourself a user account, at least i never interpreted it that way.
run as user, administer as root, not run and administer as root.
if you run solely as root, the trademark applies: Bad Things Will Happen.
Maybe not today, nor tomorrow, but they will...
in a pristine-upon-boot ram based system (i think puppy,tiny core) you have a bit more protection from yourself, but don't fool yourself.
even dsl and tinycore have normal user as default login, maybe there's a good reason...
59 • Root Security ... Maybe a little clarity is in order. (by DavidEF on 2012-06-22 18:39:26 GMT from United States)
I just want to clarify my stand on root security. I do believe running as root is "less secure" than running as user, in a general sense. I just don't believe running as root is "insecure," as in "wide open system as root."
I liked comment #57 by Jesse from Canada. I agree that running as user, instead of root, is a layer of security. I don't believe it is an absolute necessity for security.
Taking the bullets out and putting your gun in a locked cabinet are both good safety measures, but not "necessary". Sometimes you're better off having it loaded under your pillow. The best form of gun safety is knowing how to handle it. The same can be said for root user security.
60 • Security (by Landor on 2012-06-22 18:43:51 GMT from Canada)
I guess all of you semi-proponents leave your homes unlocked with the doors and windows open as long as you've taken precautions by putting your valuables in a closet someone can open up with little effort.
Try telling that to companies that run server farms. I bet they run systems wide open as root all the time.
The RH analogy was a bullshit example to say the least.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
61 • @60 (by notsure on 2012-06-22 19:40:52 GMT from United States)
yup, the RH BS was quite funny to read, i thought that was a joke. Not to mention root's worst enemy is the Enter Key.
Gun loaded and under your pillow? Good Luck with that.
62 • Root Security I guess it all comes down to perspective. (by DavidEF on 2012-06-22 19:54:42 GMT from United States)
@60 Landor,
Circumstances dictate what layers of security are needed. Where my mom lives, she indeed leaves all the doors of her house unlocked and, in the summer, the windows open. Her car keys are always in the ignition, so the car is ready to go when she is. In 20+ years of living there, she has had no problems, and I suppose she won't for a long time to come. I only lock my home because my wife is a little paranoid, like some of you guys. And yes, some people do have their gun loaded under their pillow. I pity the fool who breaks in on them. I know I won't be trying it.
Running as root is NOT inherently "insecure", although definitely "less secure", as I've said before. And locks only keep honest people out. The biggest danger of running as root is the ability of a dummy to trash his own system.
63 • @60 Single user server farms? (by DavidEF on 2012-06-22 20:11:52 GMT from United States)
Landor,
I think we can all safely agree that running a server farm in single user mode would be pointless, if not utterly useless. Remember, "single user" is what we're talking about here. Puppy linux is a "single user" system. I doubt Puppy linux will EVER be considered for use in commercial server farms. It is an end-user OS, not a server OS. Server OS do need all the layers of security we can give them, including a protected, closed, locked root.
64 • @62 (by notsure on 2012-06-22 20:16:43 GMT from United States)
not getting into the gun safety part here, but intruders just might get to you before you know it... anyway, inappropriate analogies aside, this is computer security, not home. think chicago in a much larger, say "world wide" scale..you know, the ww before web...
65 • Puppy Linux (by greg on 2012-06-22 20:24:21 GMT from United States)
I, for one, hope Puppy Linux remains the same. When a hard drive crashes, Puppy can be used to recover or change files. It is a great demonstration tool, for showing Linux to newcomers. For casual web surfing it is the fastest I've found, since it runs on RAM. I don't use it for secure environments, but I haven't found any distro that can "do-it-all".
66 • RE: 61 - 62/63 - 65 (by Landor on 2012-06-22 22:31:53 GMT from Canada)
#61
It really was absurd. First off, anything that comes out of the RH/Fedora group instantly smacks of being dressed up for the prom to say the least. Then not to mention it was obviously a controlled environment, which is obvious again because of who was doing it, and why. Let's put it this way, they sure as hell didn't let the BackTrack boys take a few swings at it I'm guessin'.
#62/63
I can't believe the comments you're typing and you can't see the correlations, and contradictions. It's amazing. The more you try to get me to listen to reason (which I've yet to actually see any, I might add), the more you convince me you're grasping at straws and don't really understand the things you yourself are typing out.
#65
Funny, you don't consider your own systems needed secure environments? You stated you use it for casual web surfing, no?
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
67 • RE:66 (by greg on 2012-06-23 01:54:31 GMT from United States)
I mostly use Slacko-Puppy-Linux on one computer. It is my distro-hopper computer, which has very little personal information. While the distro flavor-of-the-week may change, Puppy Linux remains as a second OS. The other computer I have Puppy Linux on, is there only as a tool. I think it's the easiest way to fix or change grub, if need be, and such.
68 • RE: 67 (by Landor on 2012-06-23 05:51:23 GMT from Canada)
Are any of these systems networked? Is more than one system on a time?
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
69 • Linux Mint Maya MATE (by Woody on 2012-06-23 09:28:18 GMT from Kuwait)
I tried lots of different Linux Distros, but always go back to Linux Mint. It works out of the box with no hassle. Why can't other distros do that? Before I stuck with Linux Mint 9 with Gnome, but now I've switched all of my computers to Linux Mint Maya MATE. MATE is a much better graphical interface than the GNOME 3 interface that comes with Ubuntu and Fedora. No wonder Mint is the most popular distro in the Distrowatch page hit rankings. Thank you Clem!
70 • @69"Why can't other distros do that" (by @69"Why can't other distros.." on 2012-06-24 17:44:35 GMT from Portugal)
Quick answer: because distributing patent encumbered software may be a contingency and because many distros want to keep fidelity to the free open source principles.
71 • root account (by wade on 2012-06-24 18:27:00 GMT from United States)
What the heck does "running as root" mean? You can log in as the root user, but that doesn't necessarily have any effect on what what user your operating system starts it's processes as. When I log in as as the root user on one of my servers, my server doesn't suddenly become unsecure.
72 • root (by greg on 2012-06-25 01:17:43 GMT from United States)
If you are on a server, and mess-up due to unrestricted access, how will anyone else know it was you? I'm sure there will be better explanations coming from others, or correct me if I'm wrong.
Number of Comments: 72
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