 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 430, 7 November 2011 |
Welcome to this year's 45th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! And it's a sizeable issue as well. We'll start with a first-look review of Sabayon Linux 7, a Gentoo-based distribution with many cutting-edge features and a variety of editions for all kinds of tastes and purposes. Then we'll move on to the news section where we'll discuss the big DistroWatch event of the week - the dethroning of Ubuntu by Linux Mint as the new "number one" distribution in our page hit ranking statistics. This is then followed by news about the upcoming changes in Ubuntu 12.04 as discussed during last week's Ubuntu Developer Summit, and information about the two important releases of the coming week - those of Fedora 16 and Solaris 11. A section called "Opinions" then adds to the recent spike of anti-Unity articles in various Linux media before we move to a much more technical topic - the purpose and function of Fedora's systemd which has replaced the traditional SysVInit boot sequence in all Fedora and Red Hat-based distributions. The usual sections summarising last week's distro releases as well as new distribution additions are only intercepted by a record about two DistroWatch donations; we are happy to announce that the recipients of the cash prize are Trinity Desktop Environment and LibreCAD. This is a bumper issue, so set aside plenty of time to enjoy the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Happy reading!
Content:
- Reviews: First impressions of Sabayon Linux 7
- News: Linux Mint - the new "number one", upcoming changes in Ubuntu 12.04, six reasons to try Fedora 16, Solaris 11 launch party
- Opinions: Disunity
- Questions and answers: systemd
- Released last week: OpenBSD 5.0, Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11, Scientific Linux 5.7 "Live"
- Upcoming releases: Fedora 16, Solaris 11
- Donations: Trinity Desktop Environment, LibreCAD
- New additions: Parabola GNU/Linux, SuperX
- New distributions: angusOS, FX64 Linux, Linux Wizard, R4W, SimbiOS
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (31MB) and MP3 (42MB) formats
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
First impressions of Sabayon Linux 7
 Sabayon's slogan, which appears when the distribution is booting, is "open your source, open your mind". It's catchy, it's simple and maybe even inspiring. However, were I to choose an alternative slogan it would probably be "There's an edition for that." A quick look at the project's download area reveals six different editions (GNOME, Xfce, KDE, Server Base, Spin Base and Core), each of them available in 32-bit and 64-bit builds. And, indeed, the project lists its number one feature as "variety". Judging by the editions which eventually appeared for Sabayon 6 we'll probably see future editions of Sabayon 7 featuring LXDE and Enlightenment.
For now though let's focus on the Xfce edition, which is what I decided to download. There wasn't any particular motivation for the choice, except when in doubt Xfce is usually a safe option. Speaking of options, booting off the 1.2 GB DVD brings up a menu which allows us to try the distribution in live mode, perform a graphical install, perform a text install or boot into a console. I decided to go for the graphical install. Sabayon uses the tried-and-true Anaconda installer, which Fedora and Red Hat users will recognize.
The installer begins by asking for our preferred language and we're given the option of downloading additional languages and fonts. The next screen gets us to select our keyboard layout. Then we set our hostname and pick our time zone from a map of the world. The following two screens require us to set a root password and create a regular user account. The next section is disk partitioning, a task I feel Anaconda performs very well. There is a wide range of support here, providing us with the ability to create LVM or RAID setups or to create plain partitions. Then we have the choice of using ext4, ext3, ext2, Btrfs, JFS, XFS or ReiserFS file systems. We can also choose to encrypt these partitions. The last screen of the installer gives us the choice of installing a bootloader and, if so, its location. From there the installer copies files to the hard drive and prompts us to reboot when it is done.
Sabayon Linux 7 - desktop settings and firewall
(full image size: 304kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Booting into Sabayon for the first time brings up a graphical login screen with a soft blue background. Once we sign in we're shown a desktop featuring blue wallpaper. On our first login two windows pop up, one with tips & tricks for using the graphical environment and another window opens the Sabayon website. After we clear these away we are presented with the Xfce desktop (version 4.8). At the bottom of the screen is a task switcher and, along the top, we find the application menu, quick-launch buttons and system tray. On the desktop are icons for navigating the file system and for accessing the Sabayon website and opening the Entropy Store. We'll come back to the store in a moment. First, let's explore the application menu.
There is a good collection of useful software included in the default install. We're given the Midori web browser, the Pidgin instant messenger client, XChat for communicating on IRC and the Transmission BitTorrent client. A graphical PPP dialer is included as are LibreOffice and a PDF viewer. In the multimedia section we find an audio player, a video player and the Cheese webcam app. Both the GIMP and Shotwell are included. There is a category of the menu dedicated to opening links to the various Sabayon web pages where we can find help, send donations and read documentation. There's a graphical firewall configuration tool, an archive manager, text editor and note taker. Xfce comes with a wide range of apps to configure the look and feel of the desktop and, so far, they've all worked well for me. The distro comes with a full range of multimedia codecs, allowing users to play mp3 files and videos straight out of the box. Sabayon includes Flash and Java and GCC is included. Sabayon is a rolling release distribution so versions will vary over time, but on the DVD we find the 3.0 version of the Linux kernel.
When we login to Sabayon an icon appears in the upper-right corner of the screen, letting us know if package updates are available. The first time I logged in I clicked on the notification icon and requested it refresh my package information. A few seconds later the applet informed me the system was up to date. This seemed strange considering Sabayon's rolling release nature. Shortly afterwards I opened the system's package manager, which is called the Entropy Store. (Despite the name, there doesn't appear to be any software for sale in the "store", all the packages are free.) When we first open the Entropy Store it goes to work setting up and downloading repository information. And, from that point on, the update notification applet was able to detect when package updates were available.
Sabayon Linux 7 - updating package information
(full image size: 494kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
The package manager features a fairly simple layout. Along the top of the window there are buttons for resynchronizing repository information, viewing all available packages, viewing all pending updates and there's a button for viewing queued actions. Packages are displayed in alphabetical order and we can filter the displayed packages by searching for keywords. Software can be queued for installation or removal by checking a box next to the package name. Though it doesn't have as many features as some other popular package managers, I found Entropy worked well.
I ran Sabayon on two physical machines, my HP laptop (dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, Intel video card) and a desktop machine (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA video card). The distribution was able to properly detect all of my hardware on both machines. My Intel wireless card worked with no configuration on my part and sound volume was set to a low, but audible, level on both machines. While everything worked, I did find boot times and the act of launching applications took an unusually long time on my laptop. Desktop responsiveness when moving windows or clicking menus was fast, as I would expect from the Xfce environment, but launching new programs took several seconds longer than normal (launching Entropy took about 40 seconds, opening a terminal took about five seconds).
Boot times were about four to five times longer than what I experienced with Ubuntu a few weeks ago. When running on the desktop machine boot times were noticeably shorter and applications launched in a more timely manner. I also found that on my laptop machine desktop effects were enabled by default. Usually this wasn't a problem, but sometimes I found windows would turn semi-transparent while I was moving them and then not turn opaque again when I released them. This made it difficult to view the windows' contents. Disabling transparency solved this problem. Another annoying characteristic presented itself on the desktop machine. The mouse was very sensitive to gestures and I found moving the pointer slightly left or right would cause Xfce to move to the next virtual workspace. Until I changed the mouse settings this resulted in almost any mouse movement jumping me to a different workspace.
Sabayon Linux 7 - browsing the web
(full image size: 313kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Most of my experiences with Sabayon 7 have been positive. There's a wide range of up-to-date software present in this distribution and a good deal of functionality out of the box. There are lots of application, a full range of codecs, Flash, compilers, office software and other goodies. Hardware support, in my experience, was fairly good. For people who like to stay on the cutting edge, Sabayon supplies a rolling release platform that is easy to get up and running. However, the trade-off for all this variety and the stream new software is some rough edges. The package manager, while functional, isn't as mature as similar tools found in Ubuntu or Mandriva. Some of the extras and effects enabled by default were unhelpful distractions and, on my laptop, launching applications was quite a slow process. While I have several small complaints in this vein, over-all Sabayon was pleasant to use. The Xfce desktop stays out of the way and the interface is nicely organized. After the first day I didn't encounter any issues.
Personally, for my purposes, on my hardware, Sabayon wasn't the ideal operating system. It was a square peg in a pentagonal hole; close, but not quite a fit. Some of this misalignment was from the technical issues I mentioned above and some of it was the design of the project. Sabayon is focused on providing variety, on being cutting edge, on providing a rolling release with a steady stream of updates, on providing all the bells and whistles by default. If you read that list of characteristics and thought, "Yes, I want those!" then Sabayon is probably a great match for you. A few minor glitches shouldn't stand in your way and I recommend giving Sabayon a try. On the other hand, if you are, like myself, looking for something a little more predictable, a little more boring, then Sabayon probably isn't the right choice.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Linux Mint - the new "number one", upcoming changes in Ubuntu 12.04, six reasons to try Fedora 16, Solaris 11 launch party
 As they say, once you are on top, you can only go one way. After being (largely unopposed) the number one distribution in our page hit ranking statistics since April 2005, Ubuntu has finally been dethroned. Ironically, it's one of its many derivatives, Linux Mint, a distribution sometimes referred to as "Ubuntu done right", that assumed the top spot late last week. Why? Some DistroWatch readers have already started speculating about the reasons - the all-too-frequent radical changes, the controversial Unity desktop (see our opinion piece below), the increasing amount of unresolved bugs... Of course, this little piece of statistic doesn't mean that Linux Mint has suddenly more users than Ubuntu, far from it. But it does perhaps indicate the increasing dissatisfaction of users with Canonical's flagship product and a growing interest in an alternative, at least among those Linux users who frequent this website. And in many ways, Linux Mint is a perfect option - it's still more or less Ubuntu, but without the unpopular changes that have given many Ubuntu users nothing but frustration.
Some DistroWatch readers have started wondering whether Mint's ascend is a result of fraudulent loading of the Linux Mint page. If this is the case, we have not been able to detect any problem. On the contrary, it seems that Linux Mint keeps generating genuine interest, largely by word of mouth. As an example, last week's change in ranking did not go unnoticed on various Linux websites throughout the world: a short post in the Ubuntu section of Reddit generated over 120 remarks, an article on Russia's Linux.org.ru resulted in over 800 comments, and a similar piece on Italy's LFFI website was voted "top story of the week". Poland's OSNews.pl also noticed Ubuntu's losing the crown, while, quite naturally, many members of the Linux Mint forum have observed the fact with great satisfaction. As a result of all this publicity, the Linux Mint page received 5,354 unique hits on Friday, 6,325 on Saturday and 6,078 on Sunday, well above its six-month average of 2,100 hits. It's likely that this trend will continue throughout this week as more "minty" publicity is generated in Linux media.
That won't be the end of it, however. As the developers of the current "number one" distribution on DistroWatch prepare for a new release in the coming weeks, there will be undoubtedly more excitement. This, in fact, has started already. Last week Clement Lefebvre, the founder and lead developer of Linux Mint, published some information about the upcoming Linux Mint 12, including continued support for GNOME 2: "In Linux Mint 11 we made the decision to keep GNOME 2.32. The traditional GNOME desktop, although it’s not actively developed by the GNOME development team anymore, is still by far the most popular desktop within the Linux community. As other distributions adopted new desktops such as Unity and GNOME 3, many users felt alienated and consequently migrated to Linux Mint. We recorded a 40% increase in a single month." A heavily modified variant of GNOME 3 will also be available: "We developed 'MGSE' (Mint GNOME Shell Extensions), which is a desktop layer on top of GNOME 3 that makes it possible for you to use GNOME 3 in a traditional way. You can disable all components within MGSE to get a pure GNOME 3 experience, or you can enable all of them to get a GNOME 3 desktop that is similar to what you’ve been using before." The first release candidate for Linux Mint 12 should be available as early as Friday.
Linux Mint 12 - GNOME 3 running under the new Mint GNOME Shell Extension
(full image size: 774kB, screen resolution 1920x1200 pixels, image courtesy of LinuxMint.com)
* * * * *
 In the meantime, the Ubuntu developers gathered in Orlando, USA, for their annual Ubuntu Developer Summit (UDS). As has become custom, many profound changes for the upcoming Ubuntu 12.04 were announced, including a switch to a DVD-size live media, various improvements in Unity and Ubuntu Software Centre, a likely replacement of Banshee with Rhythmbox, and possibly even a preview of the Wayland display server protocol. From "Expected changes in Ubuntu 12.04": "Ubuntu will promote 64-bit images starting with Precise. This means that when you go to Ubuntu.com and click to download Ubuntu, the 64-bit image will be selected by default. You can of course choose to download 32-bit images instead if you want to. Until now, the 64-bit images weren't promoted due to the lack of multiarch support, but with this problem solved, there's nothing blocking it anymore. The Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin ISO size will increase to 750 MB which means it won't fit on a CD anymore so you'll need either an USB stick or DVD. There were issues the last cycle with fitting everything on the CD so this is a welcome change for the developers. The reason only 50 MB were added is to make sure there's not too much stuff added on the ISO just because it's possible."
* * * * *
 Good news for the Fedora fans - the upcoming release 16, code name "Verne" was declared gold last week and will be officially released tomorrow (Tuesday). PCWorld's Katherine Noyes gives us "six good reasons to try Fedora 16": "The Fedora project abandoned its efforts to implement Ubuntu's controversial new Unity interface back in February, so the Unity-averse will find a safe haven in Fedora. They'll still have plenty of choices, however, with both GNOME and KDE on offer. Included in Fedora 16 are KDE Plasma Workspace 4.7 - including Plasma Desktop and Netbook workspaces, the KDE Applications and the KDE Platform - as well as GNOME 3.2. GNOME 3 has also been controversial, of course, but it's only one option, and GNOME users will also find a new tool that lets them switch seamlessly between keyboard layouts and input methods. For those who don't like GNOME 3, KDE provides a really attractive alternative." Another attraction of Fedora 16 is speed: "Following the introduction of the systemd services management program in Fedora 15, this new version features better integration of that software via native systemd services in many software components. That translates into faster boot times for desktop users, along with more powerful management capabilities for system administrators."
Fedora 16 and GNOME 3.2 - the latest and greatest from Red Hat's community distro
(full image size: 755kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
 A launch of a new version of Solaris is only slightly less rare than a solar eclipse, so the fans of the once highly popular UNIX operating system will have a reason to rejoice later this week when Oracle unveils the brand-new Solaris 11. This will be the first major version since January 2005 when Solaris 10, then still under the umbrella of Sun Microsystems, was unveiled. Although many expected Solaris 11 to arrive on 2011-11-11, "Oracle will, in fact, release the new version" two days earlier, on 9 November: "On November 9th, 2011, the long-awaited final version of Solaris 11 will be launched. If you happen to be near New York that day, you're invited to join the official Solaris 11 launch party! Solaris 11 has been in the making since 2005, when Solaris 10 was launched. In fact, every major Solaris release is just a fork of the ongoing Solaris development train, so the very first uber-pre-release of Solaris 11 was actually generated only weeks after Solaris 10 hit the shelves. Since then, Solaris 11 (or: Project Nevada as it was called) has seen a lot of OS history: an open-source adolescence called OpenSolaris, growing adoption and community work, a broad range of ground-braking new features, long overdue re-writes, brand new concepts, controversial discussions, a major acquisition, rules changed and rules kept."
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| Opinion (by Robert Storey) |
Disunity
Please accept my resignation. I don't care to belong to any club that will have people like me as a member. (Groucho Marx)
* * * * *
 My name is Robert, and I'm a distroholic. For the longest time, I was in denial. But as any AA member will tell you, the first step to dealing with an addiction is to know you have one. And to admit it publicly. Which is why I am here today.
What a long, strange trip it has been, ever since that fateful day in 1998 when I installed SUSE Linux. I remained loyal to her for all of six months. But soon I was having an affair with Red Hat. And then I found Slackware. I had a long and satisfying fling with Libranet, now sadly deceased. Then, in despair, I embraced FreeBSD and OpenBSD, only to abandon both of them for Debian. I'm sure there were others, but I've forgotten their names.
And suddenly, in 2005, stability came into my life, when I first put a free "ShipIt" disk from Canonical into my CD drive and rebooted. Yes, the first one was free, but soon I was hooked. My friends tried to warn me: "Don't be seduced just because she's easy," they said. But I wouldn't listen. "It's got a graphical installer!" I exclaimed. "And my mouse just works, without having to manually edit file /etc/X11/XF86Config!" I was in love.
My tryst with Ubuntu lasted over five years. But the relationship - often rocky at times - began to sour. And when Oneiric arrived last month, I knew it was over.
I cried - at least they said I did - when I recently booted a Debian disk, typed mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda1, hit enter, and watched my Ubuntu installation disappear in a digital puff of smoke. Gone, but not forgotten.
Unity: Ubuntu's Waterloo?
 OK, before someone tells me to put a sock in it, I'll cut the crap and get to the point. I'd been having issues with Ubuntu for a long time, but still remained loyal. I figured that these travails would eventually be worked out, and besides, the competition wasn't any better. However, the seriously misnamed "Unity" was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Now yes, I know, Unity is not required to run Ubuntu. Indeed, I was one of the loudest voices proclaiming to Unity-haters that they could simply go with GNOME-Shell, or Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu. Not to mention that aside from the official *buntu interfaces, buried within the bowels of the repositories are numerous other worthy desktop environments: IceWM, Enlightenment-17, FVWM-Crystal, Fluxbox, or for the truly hardcore, Ratpoison (thus named because it kills your mouse). So really, if you don't like the look of Unity, the solution is just an "apt-get install my-favorite-desktop" away. Right?
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The biggest problem with Unity is not that it has become the new Ubuntu default desktop. The problem is that Unity development seems to be sucking up Canonical's resources, to the detriment of everything else. Bugs have been creeping into Ubuntu, and they are not getting fixed because the developers apparently have no time. Over the years I have reported a number of bugs myself on the Launchpad web site, and in the beginning I recall that developers were very prompt to examine the reports and come up with solutions. I was quite surprised, and pleased, the first time I reported a bug and received a polite email from an Ubuntu developer the next day asking for more details. I replied, and within a week the bug was fixed.
But that was then and this is now. More recently, bug reports have sat in the overworked developers' inboxes for months while numerous users add additional comments saying how they too have run into the same issue. Occasionally, these bugs are real show-stoppers - everything from an inability to get online to frequent system lock-ups. Many serious bugs are now officially "triaged," which means that the developers will get to it if and when they can, but don't hold your breath waiting.
Perhaps it would be worth putting up with the bugs if Unity was the greatest thing since sliced bread - something wonderful that is going to revolutionize desktop computing. But it's not. I tried Unity, and it's kind of cute, but nothing to write home about. If it vanished from the face of the Earth, I wouldn't particularly miss it. Perhaps it will be of some value in the future if someone manufactures an Ubuntu Pad (uPad?), but for now I just want something that works well on my conventional computer. And Ubuntu is no longer stable or fast enough to fit my needs.
Where do we go from here?
I started out this rambling essay saying how I am (was) a "distroholic." That is to say, my early days of Linux Geekdom were spent jumping from distro to distro. Ubuntu gave me stability for five years, but now I am back to distro-hopping again. I am actually enjoying this experiment, and seeing how many quality distros now exist, I feel a bit like a kid in a candy store. I have three computers in my possession, each one running something different. Two of the three are Debian-based (AntiX and Linux Mint "Debian"), while the other (Salix) comes from the Slackware universe. I haven't yet bothered to set up any of my machines to double (or triple) boot, but that's a possibility too. So maybe by next week I'll be playing with six distros, or nine.
I view this as a competition. And may the best distro win.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
systemd
Getting-up-and-running asks: Perhaps you could do an article to shed some independent light on systemd? Why are distributions migrating to it? What problems is it supposed to solve?
DistroWatch answers: In case you haven't heard the name before, systemd is a replacement for the aging Linux init daemon. The init daemon is the program largely responsible for getting the system up and running at boot time. It also handles some other tasks, but its big job is getting the operating system into a usable state. Over the years the init system has been criticized for being too slow and complex for a modern operating system and, as a result, some alternatives have surfaced. Upstart, which is championed by Ubuntu, is one such init replacement. Another is systemd, which is showing up in Fedora and a few other distributions.
Probably the number one feature of systemd is parallelization. Wherever possible systemd will try to start tasks in parallel, taking advantage of the multi-core characteristics of modern hardware. It also tracks processes by control groups (often referred to as cgroups). What this does is ensure that new processes can't "escape" from systemd. When an init system tracks daemons by process IDs (PIDs) the daemon can fork itself to change its process number. Since systemd tracks daemons via cgroups a daemon can change its PID and still be tracked and terminated using its control group. Another thing systemd tries to do is start fewer processes, or avoid starting processes until they're needed. It might help to visualize what this looks like. The following chart shows a traditional init system starting programs to arrive at the desktop compared to how systemd starts processes to also arrive at the desktop.
| Traditional init |
Start A -> |
Start B -> |
Start C -> |
Display desktop |
| systemd |
Start A -> Start C |
|
|
Display desktop |
|
As you can see, with systemd, your computer works harder up front to get everything ready, but finishes much sooner because it's doing all the work up front. It's also cutting out services it doesn't need to start. The old version of init is processing tasks one at a time, which may be easier for humans to visualize, but takes longer. Additionally, designing a new init system has allowed the developers to add new features. Here is a feature list of what systemd does compared with traditional init and Upstart.
Something else systemd tries to do is replace traditional shell scripts with compiled C code. Shell scripts are relatively quick and easy to write, but relatively slow to run. For this reason some of the basic start-up processes are being re-written in C to increase their speed.
To summarize, systemd is trying to make the most of modern software (particularly the Linux kernel) and hardware to start everything the operating system needs in parallel and getting the system to a point where the user can interact with the computer in less time. There are a few drawbacks though. For starters, while systemd tries to be compatible with traditional init scripts, it isn't compatible with Upstart (which gained wide-spread usage a few years ago). Lennart Poettering, systemd's primary author, has also pointed out the new init system relies on Linux-specific features (like udev) and uses Linux-specific APIs instead of POSIX. This reliance on modern, Linux-specific features makes systemd more attractive to experimental projects like Fedora and openSUSE, but perhaps less appealing to conservative projects such as Slackware and Debian.
As for who is making the transition to systemd, so far most projects haven't adopted systemd, at least not as the default init process. Fedora 15 includes systemd, as does Mandriva. The upcoming openSUSE 12.1 release is expected to feature systemd. The Paldo distribution includes systemd, though I'm not certain if it's the default init system or simply available as an option. Other distributions have included systemd in their repositories, but haven't made it the default option. Arch Linux fits into this category. Debian is testing systemd, and systemd is available in Gentoo's repositories.
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| Released Last Week |
OpenBSD 5.0
Theo de Raadt has announced the release of OpenBSD 5.0, a new version of a BSD-based operating system renown for its high security thanks to meticulous code review. Some of the new features and systems in the new release include: "Improved hardware support, including: MSI interrupts for many devices, on those architectures which can support them (amd64, i386, sparc64 only so far); a new dma_alloc(9) API makes it easier for kernel code to allocate dma-safe memory; as a result, big-memory support has been enabled on all possible architectures; the rather rare bce(4) driver now copies mbufs all the time, to cope with the hardware having a 1 GB limit. Highlights: GNOME 2.32.2, KDE 3.5.10, Mozilla Firefox 3.5.19, 3.6.18 and 5.0, LibreOffice 3.4.1, PHP 5.2.17 and 5.3.6, Chromium 12.0.742.122...." A much more comprehensive list of features can be found in the detailed release notes.
Alpine Linux 2.3.0
Jeff Bilyk has announced the release of Alpine Linux 2.3.0, a security-oriented, lightweight Linux distribution based on uClibc and BusyBox: "The Alpine Linux project is pleased to announce immediate availability of version 2.3 of its Alpine Linux operating system. This release introduces several new features: a new Linux kernel based on 3.0; GCC 4.6; improved setup scripts with tools for helping configure local configuration backup location and package manager cache; preliminary support for booting from encrypted LVM partitions; BusyBox has been upgraded to version 1.19.2 with shell history search (with ctrl-r); unbound DNS resolver with DNSSEC support; better multi-ISP support in Pingu with support for PPP and DHCP; PostgreSQL has been upgraded to 9.1; Kamailio has been upgraded to 3.2...." Here is the full release announcement.
AVLinux 5.0.2
Glen MacArthur has announced the release of AVLinux 5.0.2, an updated version of the project's Debian-based distribution featuring a large collection of audio and video production software: "An updated ISO (5.0.2) for the AV Linux 5.0 series has been released with a new kernel, a few bug fixes, updated applications and enhancements. Trulan Martin has worked very hard to provide a 3.0.6 kernel with an important SMP -rt scheduling patch, M-Audio Fast Track Pro support, ATI mode setting switched on and some extra security features. On the application side the Audio menu has grown to include Mixxx 1.9.0 for DJs, MuseScore 1.1 for sheet music scoring and XCFA for audio conversions. The Video menu has been heavily re-worked to provide the best possible out-of-the-box experience with Cinelerra 2.1.5CV, OpenShot 1.4.0, Kdenlive 0.8.1svn and LiVES 1.4.7." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details.
AVLinux 5.0.2 - a Debian-based multimedia distro
(full image size: 2,258kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
ALT Linux 6.0.0 "Centaurus"
Andrey Cherepanov has announced the release of ALT Linux 6.0.0 "Centaurus" edition, a Russian general-purpose distribution for desktops and servers: "ALT Linux proudly presents a new release of our key distribution, ALT Linux 6.0 'Centaurus'. This is a universal GNU/Linux distribution intended for use on servers, desktop systems and laptops. Features: selection of installed solutions such as web server or desktop environment during installation; support for manual system services setup and web-based configuration using the Alterator control center.... The distribution contains GNOME 2 and FVWM, Linux kernels 3.0.7 and 2.6.32." Here is the brief release announcement.
ArchBang Linux 2011.11
Willensky Aristide has announced the release of ArchBang Linux 2011.11, an updated build of the project's lightweight distribution with Openbox, based on Arch Linux: "ArchBang 2011.11 is out in the wild. You don't need it if you already have ArchBang Linux installed on your system. Changelog: PCManFM over Thunar file manager; Xcompmgr-dana over Xcompmgr; recent files pipe menu added; new key bind to read the upgraded DOC; progress bar while copying files; better font rendering; new look; smaller ISO image. Notes: you can always build Arch with Openbox from scratch by following this guide; if you don't like the black and gray system tray icons, remove the following line in tint2rc - 'systray_icon_asb = 100 -100 -25'." See the release announcement for a few more details and a couple of screenshots.
Kwort Linux 3.2
David Cortarello has announced the release of Kwort Linux 3.2, a CRUX-based desktop distribution (with Openbox) designed for intermediate and advanced Linux users: "Almost a year has passed since Kwort's last stable release, and today I'm rolling out a new release of our system. This is a major upgrade of almost every software package included in Kwort 3.14, except the toolchain. The most noticeable changes include: move from OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice; a new kernel 3 series, Firefox 7.0.1 (not installed by default but you can install it from the CD image) and the latest version of Chromium. Other than what's noticeable, there are tons of improvements under the hood, like the inclusion of LVM2 and mdadm for logical volume management and raid support, the ext4 file system supported in the installation and some nice improvements in kpkg." Visit the distribution's home page to read the release announcement.
Kwort Linux 3.2 - a lightweight, CRUX-based desktop distribution
(full image size: 816kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
SystemRescueCd 2.4.0
François Dupoux has released SystemRescueCd 2.4.0, an updated version of the specialist live CD containing a large collection of open-source utilities for disk partitioning and data rescue tasks. The new release comes with the brand-new GParted 0.10.0, the latest X.Org Server and Mozilla Firefox, while DHCP has been upgraded to the 4.x series. From the changelog: "Updated standard kernels to Linux 3.0.8 (rescuecd + rescue64); updated alternative kernels to Linux 3.1.0 (altker32 + altker64); dropped Reiser4 patch from all kernels (no patch for Linux 3.x); updated X.Org Server to 1.10.4 (graphical server and drivers); updated Mozilla Firefox to 7.0.1; updated GParted to 0.10.0; patched Parted 2.4 with fixes from Fedora."
Scientific Linux 5.7 "Live"
Urs Beyerle has announced the release of the "Live" edition of Scientific Linux 5.7, a set of installable live CD, live DVD and mini live CD images based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.7: "With a little delay I can announce the release of Scientific Linux 5.7 live CD/DVD. Please note that the SL 5.7 live CD/DVD were built with the old build environment used for all SL 4.x SL 5.x live CD/DVD releases so far. The Scientific Linux live CD/DVD is a bootable CD/DVD that runs Linux directly from CD/DVD without installing. It is based on Scientific Linux 5.7 (SL57), which is recompiled from Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 sources. Software: Linux kernel 2.6.18-274.3.1.el5, openAFS client 1.4.14, X.Org 7.1, ALSA sound libraries 1.0.17, GNOME 2.16.0 (standard desktop), OpenOffice.org 3.1.1, Firefox 3.6.23, KDE 3.5.4 (only on live DVD)...." Here is the release announcement.
IPFire 2.11
Arne Fitzenreiter has announced the release of a major new version of IPFire, a specialist Linux-based distribution for firewalls: "It has already been four years since IPFire 2 was released for the first time. There has been huge progress until today, the release of version 2.11. The biggest new feature in the released version 2.11 of IPFire is the option to create net-to-net VPNs with OpenVPN. Until now, it was only possible to use OpenVPN to create roadwarrior networks, but we kept the easiness of configuring VPN tunnels by just sending configuration archives in ZIP format. To learn how that works, see the reworked documentation on the Wiki. IPsec-VPNs do now support the IKEv2 protocol which allows a more secure, faster and easier connection of the tunnels." See the release announcement for additional details.
OLPC OS 11.3.0
Daniel Drake has announced the release of OLPC OS 11.3.0, a specialist distribution created under the initiative of the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project to provide children in developing countries with low-cost laptops: "We are pleased to announce the release of OLPC OS 11.3.0. This new OLPC software release adds several new features and significant bug fixes. XO-1 and XO-1.5 are fully supported as usual; additionally, this release adds support for the new XO-1.75 laptop. Sugar 0.94 is included in the release; this updated version includes various improvements such as more powerful View Source functionality, and easier file exchange between the Journal and the regular file system. One notable change is that the Keep button has been removed from activities. Many users mistook this with Save, but actually Sugar saves all your work for you - you do not have to tell it do so." See the brief release announcement and the detailed release notes for further information.
GParted LiveCD 0.10.0-3
Steven Shiau has announced the release of GParted LiveCD 0.10.0-3, a new stable version of the useful utility live CD containing a collection of utilities designed for disk partitioning and data rescue tasks. This release comes with the much-improved GParted 0.10.0 while the Fluxbox window manager has been upgraded to version 1.3.2. From the release announcement: "GParted team is proud to announce a new stable release of GParted LiveCD, version 0.10.0-3. This release includes the new GParted 0.10.0 application which adds Btrfs resizing, exfat detection, and the intelligence to merge overlapping operations. The deprecated 'info' icon is removed and the underlying GNU/Linux operating system is based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2011-11-02." Visit the project's news page to read the brief information summary about the new version.
Elastix 2.2
Rafael Bonifaz has announced the release of Elastix 2.2, a CentOS-based telephony distribution whose goal is to integrate the best tools available for Asterisk-based Private Branch Exchanges (PBX) into a single, easy-to-use interface: "Now available Elastix 2.2 and the elastixWorld 2011 attendees were the first to witness the improvements in this new Elastix stable version. In this version you will enjoy a new and improved interface and the upgrading of Asterisk among other additions such as: Elastix Web Services module, MarketPlace module, Statistics module, Advanced Security Settings module; CentOS and kernel upgrades; Asterisk 1.8.7.0 update; security and bug fixes; definition of the AMI and ARI credentials in Elastix's first-boot process; support for the Operator Panel in Internet Explorer and Firefox; minor graphic and language bug fixes." Here is the brief release announcement.
Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11
Phil Miller has announced the release of Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11, a desktop distribution featuring the just-released KDE 4.7.3: "The Chakra development team is proud to announce the second release of 'Edn', Chakra GNU/Linux featuring Linux kernel 3.0.8 and KDE 4.7.3. This is a regular scheduled release, approximately 7 - 10 days after a new version of KDE is announced. Besides the latest KDE, this release features an updated toolchain and a split of Qt and QtWebKit, thus enabling HTML 5 and WebGL support for Qt/KDE web-browsers. Chakra is now offering a DVD and CD edition; the CD edition is a minimal working KDE desktop, while the DVD version includes all the language packs, most of the standard KDE applications, LibreOffice...." See the full release announcement for more information.
Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11 - the first distro coming with the new KDE 4.7.3
(full image size: 953kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
September and October 2011 DistroWatch.com donations: Trinity Desktop Environment, LibreCAD
We are happy to announce that the recipient of the September 2011 DistroWatch.com donation is Trinity Desktop Environment, while the October 2011 DistroWatch.com donation goes to LibreCAD. Each of the two projects receives US$300 in cash.
Trinity desktop environment is a community effort to maintain and develop the KDE 3 series desktop environment: "This project aims to keep the KDE 3.5 computing style alive, as well as polish off any rough edges that were present as of KDE 3.5.10. Along the way, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date. Toward that end, significant new enhancements have already been made in areas such as display control, network connectivity, user authentication, and much more. This project is not an official continuation of KDE 3.5 by KDE e.V., which will not be creating new releases of the KDE 3 series. This is an independent fork using a largely separate developer community." As it happened, last week saw the release of a new version of Trinity Desktop Environment, version 3.5.13.
LibreCAD is a free and open-source personal 2D CAD application for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. It started as an add-on to the better-known QCad, but eventually evolved into an application on its own. From the project's About page: "LibreCAD started as a project to build CAM capabilities into the community version of QCad for use with a Mechmate CNC router. Since QCad CE was built around the outdated Qt 3 library, it had to be ported to Qt 4 before additional enhancements. This gave rise to CADuntu. The project was known as CADuntu only for a couple of months before the community decided that the name was inappropriate. After some discussion within the community and research on existing names, CADuntu was renamed to LibreCAD. Porting the rendering engine to Qt 4 proved to be a large task, so LibreCAD initially still depended on the Qt 3 support library. The Qt 4 porting was completed eventually and LibreCAD has become Qt 3 free."
Timothy Pearson, the founder and lead developer of the Trinity Desktop Project, has emailed DistroWatch with a brief thank-you note: "Thank you very much for your generous contribution to the project! It is much appreciated." It is always nice to receive a few kind words. (It's amazing how many donation recipients don't even bother to reply!)
Launched in 2004, this monthly donations programme is a DistroWatch initiative to support free and open-source software projects and operating systems with cash contributions. Readers are welcome to nominate their favourite project for future donations. Those readers who wish to contribute towards these donations, please use our advertising page to make a payment (PayPal and credit cards are accepted). Here is the list of the projects that have received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NDISwrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and Sabayon Linux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350), Frugalware Linux ($340), cURL ($300), GSPCA ($400), FileZilla ($400), MythDora ($500), Linux Mint ($400), Parsix GNU/Linux ($300), Miro ($300), GoblinX ($250), Dillo ($150), LXDE ($250)
- 2009: Openbox ($250), Wolvix GNU/Linux ($200), smxi ($200), Python ($300), SliTaz GNU/Linux ($200), LiVES ($300), Osmo ($300), LMMS ($250), KompoZer ($360), OpenSSH ($350), Parted Magic ($350) and Krita ($285)
- 2010: Qimo 4 Kids ($250), Squid ($250), Libre Graphics Meeting ($300), Bacula ($250), FileZilla ($300), GCompris ($352), Xiph.org ($250), Clonezilla ($250), Debian Multimedia ($280), Geany ($300), Mageia ($470), gtkpod ($300)
- 2011: CGSecurity ($300), OpenShot ($300), Imagination ($250), Calibre ($300), RIPLinuX ($300), Midori ($310), vsftpd ($300), OpenShot ($350), Trinity Desktop Environment ($300), LibreCAD ($300)
Since the launch of the Donations Program in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$29,640 to various open-source software projects.
* * * * *
New distributions added to database
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- angusOS. angusOS is an Italian desktop Linux distribution, featuring the KDE and Xfce desktops, based on openSUSE. The project's website is in Italian.
- FX64 Linux. FX64 Linux is a Fedora-based distribution, with Oracle Java, Adobe Flash Player, Skype and RAR pre-installed, together with essential system, office, multimedia and Internet applications from the official Fedora and RPM Fusion repositories.
- Linux Wizard. Linux Wizard is a Russian desktop Linux distribution based on Ubuntu. The project's website is in Russian.
- R4W. R4W (Replacement for Windows) is a Debian-based distribution designed to be a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Windows 98 - XP era computers. It is intended to be used by computer refurbishing/recycling centres and businesses. The goal is to keep perfectly good computers from becoming e-waste, as well as helping small businesses prosper by saving money.
- SimbiOS. SimbiOS is a Brazilian desktop Linux distribution based on Ubuntu. The project's website is in Portuguese.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 14 November 2011.
Jesse Smith, Ladislav Bodnar and Robert Storey
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Sticking with Gnome 2.x while trying MGSE (by LiQuidKermit on 2011-11-07 10:48:19 GMT from Indonesia)
I'm linux mint user and will of course continue using MATE (gnome 2.x fork) as my daily desktop, while on the same time exploring MGSE. Who knows I'll like MGSE and change into it. Years ago I'll be thrilling to try new revolutionary things such as Unity or Shell. But today, I need my PC experience to be a "just works" without having to re-learn and re-adapt new things.
2 • Gnoem 3 fallback (by hobbitland on 2011-11-07 11:12:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I am planning to use Gnoem 3 fallback until RHEL 7 / Scientific Linux 7 supports Gnome 3 shell. Then I will use Ubuntu with Gnoem 3 shell & SL 7 with Gnome 3 shell.
I need same environment for both commerical and home user desktops. So using Gnome 3 fallback to get the Gnome 2 classic migth be ok for a year or two.
Linux Mint is looking promising but I don't like that Windows XP look. May look at Mint 12 again when it comes out.
3 • Mint & R4W (by How-old! on 2011-11-07 11:16:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ardent readers of DW will be aware that Mint has displaced Ubuntu at the top of the charts on previous occasions. Maybe we can ask Ladislav to trawl his records and give us the full SP?!
R4W want $10 for their distro and have the gaul to ask $5 for PartEd Magic. Perhaps someone can explain to them that asking cash for Linux not only offends against the gargantuan efforts of devoted public-spirited developers but is also a thoroughly bad business model which has already put paid to a number of much higher profile attempts. Transitioning from one OS to another is always fraught but once achieved pays long term dividends. As a happy Minty person, the LXDE or Xfce versions would be a good place for refugees to start.
As for Sabayon, have tried most of the previous releases. They seem to get bigger and bigger with longer and longer boot-up (or not boot-up!) times and installation times. No.7 is no exception. This distro has had a spate of issues over the years, especially non-booting. Have found it attempts to be far too glitzy with poor productivity. Recently have been wary of overly large distros with someone else's selection of software. Surely it's better to have a compact distro with a substantial package repo which is frequently overhauled and an effective (not all are effective) update/upgrade path.
4 • RHEL clones !!!!!!! (by Caraibes on 2011-11-07 11:17:44 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I can't believe I am reading "Linux aux petits oignons" again !
Kiki Novak where are you ?
I am back in RHEL universe... Where Gnome 2 still has a future ;)
Good guide here as well: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/centos-perfect-desktop.html
5 • MGSE (by pera on 2011-11-07 11:26:41 GMT from Serbia)
Yes,MGSE is way how gnome3 should look like. I think many users will switch from ubuntu to mint in next few months. And I think MGSE will be the most used gnome shell extension also on other distros. Mate desktop is much better choice than gnome-fallback mode for those with low end graphics cards.
6 • Linux Mint #1? (by fox on 2011-11-07 11:49:21 GMT from Canada)
While I have little doubt that the trend for change is meaningful, to say that Mint is #1, even based on DistroWatch page hit rankings is not quite right. All versions of Mint are counted in one place, whereas for Ubuntu, every version has a separate entry. Adding up the 'buntu page hits will give you at least a 50% higher count than Mint.
7 • @6: counting and ... (by meanpt on 2011-11-07 11:55:37 GMT from Portugal)
... you're deadly right. And I don't know of any mint based distro, with the exception of one based on mint lxde which is based on lubuntu ... and I like to use G3S as well as Unity (having applications running in full screen is really good - do that, mint!).
8 • MGSE (by smellyman on 2011-11-07 12:01:57 GMT from Hong Kong)
I wish the Mint team would concentrate on MGSE and make it the best distro they can moving forward (it looks VERY promising)......Am I the only one to not understand the yet another split in development and working on Mate? There are loads of great DE's and WM's out there and XFCE was already quite close to Gnome2 and will continue to get great support.
9 • @8: MATE vs other DM (by LiQuidKermit on 2011-11-07 12:08:23 GMT from Indonesia)
The thing is Gnome is the desktop with most user, and I believe most of them choose to stick with it. Why? Because it works. If it works, why should I change? I just want to use computer. If I can still use Gnome 2.x (MATE) then there's no reason to convert to xfce,shell, or other.
I think this is why windows xp is very famous. Eventough vista and 7 has been out for years, windows xp user base is still very high.
10 • Fedora 16/Mint 12 (by Sven on 2011-11-07 12:16:29 GMT from Sweden)
I have been using Fedora 16 RC and it quite good and already updated. I am awaiting the Gnome 3 desktop tomorrow. Also will be looking forward for Mint 12 with Gnome 3 + Mint specialities.
11 • #6 (by zykoda on 2011-11-07 12:29:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
A point made in distrowatch issue 429 comments!
12 • Linux Mint - the new "number one" (by Carlos Felipe on 2011-11-07 12:35:55 GMT from Brazil)
Mark Shuttleworth wants act now like Steve Jobs, he doesn't want to hear the community, wants to take us the freedom [...] Clem, in turn, is wiser, thinks in the users, talks with them, doesn't hide. This policy of CanonicaL does not please me, so I'm changing.
Sorry bad english.
13 • LinuxMint #1 (by Podsgrove on 2011-11-07 12:46:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
I was going to make the point about adding the numbers of the Xubuntu, Kubuntu etc. together but was beaten to it. I would also agree that Mint LXDE is just Lubuntu coloured green. I wish some clever group of developers would take over maintaining good old Gnome 2 then we could have an official Ubuntu flavour called Gubuntu perhaps.
14 • Mint #1 (by dragonmouth on 2011-11-07 13:04:17 GMT from United States)
Here we go again! All the Ubuntu faithful are up in arms over some other distro taking over the #1 spot which they feel belongs in perpetuity to THEIR distro. Couple of years ago the object of their ire was PCLinuxOS. I well remember the strident comments posted by the faithful on this forum. How dare PCLOS have higher hits counts than UBUNTU?! The counts for PCLOS must be faked, gamed or otherwise falsified! PCLOS can't hold a candle to Ubuntu, yada, yada, yada!
Ubuntu fans, get over it! You sound like the Apple crowd, whatever comes from St. Mark and Canonical is the greatest thing since sliced bread and everything else sux. Hit counts and download counts are just that, numbers. They are not a matter of life and death. Unless, of course, you are Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical, trying to take over the part of PC universe not already owned by M$.
15 • Unity: Ubuntu\'s Waterloo, Think Different ;) (by dopher on 2011-11-07 13:22:04 GMT from Belgium)
This weekend i configured my wife's new Imac. Had to import the data, from her windows pc. Took me a whole weekend to get it more or less perfect. Meanwhile i tried to learn the interface and functionality, to give her some support with it. I just loved it. OSX is great.
Now, back to my pc. Today i tried unity. After spending a whole weekend with the mac, you notice the unity interface has inherent some stuff from OSX. Which is NOT a bad thing, that is, if the good stuff get's copied. I mean, stuff get's copied all the time. Windows does it, mac does it, and it happens in the several WM's on linux.
My experience with Unity has been good. I like it. It's clean, it looks good and it works good, once you learn how to use it. And i only have been using it for a couple of hours. In my opinion Ubuntu has made the right decision to go for Unity.
Ofcourse there are a lot of bugs to get rid of, and they have to be fixed for the final release. Remember 11.10 is NOT an LTS release, which qualifies it for me as a beta. And for a beta it's pretty damn good. I think I am not alone when I say that ubuntu's last LTS release was absolutely great. 10.04 is/was a good looking userfriendly release. very professional even. I will put my money on this LTS release. Meanwhile i will use their beta. ;)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But don't be a parrot and use the bad reviews from others in forming your opinion. Just give it a fair chance. At the end most of us want a clean and stable platform (10.04 has been extremely stable for me) to run our apps while having a pleasant interface.
16 • Google trends (by Leo on 2011-11-07 13:28:26 GMT from United States)
Hi
A Linux trends comparison shows Mint linearly growing up until now, and Google decaying since 2007. Still Ubuntu is 3 times as popular today (as per google trends):
http://www.google.com/trends?q=linux+mint%2C+ubuntu+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
What I like of mint is the extra polish they add. The same as I like he polish Ubuntu adds on top of Debian. I think Mint is generating more enthusiast excitement, and Ubuntu is going more into the corporate world, which is a good thing IMHO.
17 • Re: #15 • Unity: Ubuntu's Waterloo, Think Different ;) (by Leo on 2011-11-07 13:48:57 GMT from United States)
Finally, somebody level headed :) I tend to agree. Unity is not the end of the word or anything. I have used Kubuntu for years. But I find myself more and more troubled with experiments like akonadi and nepomuk, and I really want a simple, beautiful desktop, such as webos, android, or even KDE Plasma (if there was a light version).
Unity is a step in that direction, and I applaud it. It also brings them closer to the phone and tablet, with one common interface, which I also consider great. We need to focus on the future, not the past. The future is lighter, leaner, cleaner, and Cloud oriented :)
18 • Beta (by Tourniquette on 2011-11-07 13:52:37 GMT from United States)
@15
I can sorta see your point, but even 10.04 glitched out and became less useable over time for most of the people I installed it for. At this point I've been recommending and installing CentOS, ZorinOS (for super noobs), and of course Mint. My own machine runs Fedora though, more my style ;)
@4
That Dedoimedo article is great, flipped the switch and turned me on to CentOS. To them, Gnome2 isn't going anywhere for a while.
19 • @12, Listen to who? (by Eddie on 2011-11-07 14:20:31 GMT from United States)
"he doesn't want to hear the community"
What community are you talking about? Your community? My community? There are enough users to go around. Mr. Shuttleworth is listening to a community, it's just not the one you are a member of. That is not bad for anyone especially Canonical . For too long a time distro developers only listened to a small number of the population. Linux is branching out to different areas thus becoming available and usable for everyone. While LinuxMint and Ubuntu are the two top holders on Distrowatch they cater to two different types of users, or if you prefer, two different types of communities. They are totally two different types of projects. How can that be bad? It's not. The basic core is the same as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider myself to be a member of any certain special community per say but a well rounded person who can and does receive benefits from all of these projects. There is no "walled garden" here so the reference to Steve Jobs does not fit and out freedom is not in danger.
20 • Re: 12. Clem is wiser? (by LinuXFroG on 2011-11-07 14:58:00 GMT from United States)
I don't think he is. He USED to be. Until he stepped on toes when it came to KMint. Alot of you will know what I mean. Some will not.
Enough said......
LF
21 • KDE 7.3 (by Blue Knight on 2011-11-07 15:01:34 GMT from France)
> Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11 - the first distro coming with the new KDE 4.7.3
Err, I run Mageia Cauldron and I have KDE 4.7.3 since several days already... ;-)
22 • Ubuntu vs Mint (by SB on 2011-11-07 15:18:41 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu has been seeing the negative feedback since going to Unity and continues to ignore it. They need to get back to remembering who their customers are and not just what they think everyone else wants. Until then they will continue to drop in the rankings and in the hearts and minds of users.
23 • Mint #1 (by Rajamohan on 2011-11-07 15:32:03 GMT from India)
Its nice to see competitions, but it should be constructive. For me Ubuntu 11.10 with gnome3.2 is working great, of course it need a little tweak like add the min, max, close button and change the theme to ambiance to match the default Ubuntu theme.
Gnome 3 is integrated perfectly and it make the system productive. The only issue I face is switching window when working with multiple window open, previously I used to do with mouse Now I need to make use of ctrl + tab, another issue is default to suspend, for shutdown I need to press alt key.
Other than that I feel ubuntu 11.10 modern with latest kernel and stable, I feel Mint with gnome 3 with MGSE will be serve more user.
24 • Ubuntu (by rubyplusplus on 2011-11-07 15:40:05 GMT from United States)
I haven't tried Mint in quite a while, however it is a solid distribution and it meets the needs of its users very well. I've been using ubuntu for a long time now but I am a bit torn as to my distro future. I'm not a huge fan of unity and gnome-shell works pretty well after a bit of tweaking, but I really think that KDE is likely where I'll end up. I tried it for a short while, then tried gnome-shell, thought it was pretty neat, but it really doesn't stay out of the way of my workflow the way KDE does.
So, do I wait a few (9) days and give openSUSE KDE a shot, or do I just install Kubuntu and move on with my life? It's a toss up.
25 • Mint Gnome Shell Extensions (by silent on 2011-11-07 15:50:15 GMT from France)
MGSE is a really good idea, sounds like 'GS for humans'. I hope that it will be soon available also in other distros.
26 • Fedora coming out tomorrow (by Jesse on 2011-11-07 16:09:23 GMT from Canada)
Tomorrow we're going to see the release of Fedora 16 and, as usual, I plan to do a "first look" review of the cutting edge distro. My question to everyone here is: Would you prefer to see a review of the GNOME edition of Fedora or the KDE edition?
Please let me know which you'd rather see covered by e-mailing me (no sense in cluttering up the comments area).
27 • "Ubuntu has finally been dethroned" (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:32:40 GMT from Romania)
"Ubuntu has finally been dethroned" - that statement is not really correct, I still remember that in 2007, PCLinuxOS was rank one for months (half a year I think). By the way, PCLinuxOS 2007 was probably the best distribution ever.
28 • fedora review (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:36:51 GMT from Romania)
Hello, Jesse, I suggest a Gnome review, mostly because of Gnome 3, the KDE side is pretty uneventful right now, stability is boring :)
29 • Linux Mint the new #1? (by PDR60 on 2011-11-07 16:38:03 GMT from United States)
I s it just me or is all this buzz about Ububtu vs the world really kind of silly. All the distros involved in this "controversy" are all derivatives of the same main source in Debian. I used to distro jump and always ended up coming back to the source, Debian. Why not just run the real thing? I’ve had the same install of debian testing going for a couple of years now. The only time it really gets reloaded is with a new workstation hardware build. I have a kubuntu install running for the wife and all the main programs are the same between the two. The point being I don’t ever have to reload mine as the rolling updates take care of that. My present “wheezy” load started out its life as a “lenny” install and has never missed a beat by just using the testing repos. I actually had to reload her install this time as her Kubuntu 11.04 just quit during the “upgrade” process (didn’t lose any data with separate /home). She is seriously thinking about having me reload her to Debian testing. Anyway, it just seems like the kids are all fighting over who is loved the most and it really is just kind of pointless.
30 • openSUSE review (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:38:57 GMT from Romania)
Sorry for the triple post, but I just thought that the openSUSE review should be done from the KDE side, so it's probably a good idea to do the Fedora review on the Gnome side.
31 • @ 26 (by itsme on 2011-11-07 16:42:17 GMT from Germany)
I am interested in gnome, because am familar with kde, since it it did change a longer time ago. Gnome3 and Unity try out new ways. It has to get bad till it gets better. Kde4 for example is in some ways better now than kde3. I hope it catches up in terms of stability. At least that was my expierience. Perhaps it was a distrospecific issue, who knows. Am i offtopic. Yes. Well. Ahem.
32 • @17, Unity as future (by TobiSGD on 2011-11-07 17:04:54 GMT from Germany)
"It also brings them closer to the phone and tablet, with one common interface, which I also consider great. We need to focus on the future, not the past."
I totally disagree. If the future is to run an UI designed for phones, tablets and netbooks on my 22 inch monitor plugged into my workstation then the future will happen without me (and it seems many other people). A good UI should support the user to get his work done, that means it should be able to be easily adapted to the users way of doing the work. This is more easily done with a classical desktop (besides that Unity isn't really configurable). Most of the users simply don't do their work with a phone, they use their desktop machines.
33 • New Number 1 in 2007: PCLinuxOS (by cba on 2011-11-07 17:18:54 GMT from Germany)
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070917#editorial
"PCLinuxOS - the new Number One distribution
As many of you noticed, PCLinuxOS has overtaken Ubuntu in our Page Hit Ranking statistics and is currently occupying the top spot on the default 6-month view for the first time. (...)"
34 • Would you prefer to see a review of the GNOME edition of Fedora or the KDE editi (by How-old! on 2011-11-07 17:40:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you d/l the Gnome version, Fedora usually has an authorised version of Xfce listed in the repo, so this would be a very good combo test because Xfce, by concept, is intended as a 'lightweight' desktop. So, just how much is it dragged down by being an adjunct to the host desktop?
35 • @26 (by pera on 2011-11-07 18:05:50 GMT from Serbia)
It would be very interesting to see comparative review,gnome3 vs kde4 on fedora 16,like you did with ubuntu vs kubuntu.
36 • Ubuntu (by Douglas E Knapp on 2011-11-07 18:17:20 GMT from Germany)
I keep reading all this stuff about how Ubuntu has made a mistake with Unity but no one is talking about how it will bridge the gap between desktop and smart phones or other little gadgets. I have to say that I think they are correct about the gadgets taking over from the desktop. I see it at work everyday. Many people do all their internet work on their smart phones. I think he has made a move with real foresight.
On the other side, they don't seem to learn. I mean look at the transition that took place with KDE and Kubuntu. It basically killed Kubuntu. I am one of the few to stick with Kubuntu and I think at this point (11.10) that KDE has come into its own. I love the new system and for the first time ever have had no big bug problems with it. It is powerful, flexable and very easy to use. (take a look at that pic SuperX, that is what my Kubuntu looks like too. You do need to learn a bit to bring out the power of KDE 4 but it is worth it!
It was said that the transition to KDE4 would have been better if Conical had kept KDE 3 for a year longer than they did and just kept KDE 4 as an alt. I think this thinking is correct and it should have been used with the transition from Gnome 2 to 3 and even more so with Unity! If Conical lives through this, I think we will find in 5 years that they did the right thing.
For the average user the Desktop is close to dead. Desktops will continue to rule for work and art but daily users will soon be almost all only on their Smart Phones.
I fear the day that I MUST use a non-free OS on my smart phone. I love open source and the freedom and ad free nature of it. I hate the pushy, BUY ME, that you get on other systems. Long live open source!
37 • Fedora review (by electro on 2011-11-07 18:24:33 GMT from United States)
Jesse, I would like to see Fedora reviewed with the Gnome 3 desktop. I am familiar with and generally like KDE (though it is too much of a good things sometimes). But for netbook use or even laptop use KDE is a bit much. Fedora's recent RC looks and works well on my laptop though I think Unbuntu w/Unity might be better on the netbook.
I generally have used KDE on desktops and Gnome on older machines or laptops. So figuring out which of the new desktops for less capable devices would be beneficial I think.
Of course I like LXDE it just never quite seems to be everything I need.
The one I really like is E17. Boy I wish Canonical had thrown their resources behind it for the new Ubuntu desktop.
38 • Unity/Mint (by Scott on 2011-11-07 18:38:40 GMT from United States)
The only place I am still distro hopping, is on netbooks. I have a Celeron M EEE that is still running a dual boot of UNR and Easy Peasy (works good but old) because UNR does not work quite right with this hardware. Unity will not run (needs Atom) but Bodhi may replace the Easy Peasy on this netbook. What I need is a Mint derivative that can run on this hardware and fly with Atom based netbooks. I would also use this on other older hardware that I have connected to TVs and install XBMC or something to run the media.
39 • @29 True, Debian is great. (by Eddie on 2011-11-07 20:28:06 GMT from United States)
I don't believe that there is a better base to build off of than Debian. Would I use Debian as a full time distro? No. It's not the quality issue. It's not the rolling release issue.( I don't know if you would call them a rolling release. I don't believe they are, which is fine because I don't think much of the rolling release system.) I just believe they are more tuned to development then deployment. I do think they are right where they want or need to be. As far as I'm concerned they are at the top of the pecking order.
@22, I've seen the opposite effect Steve. People are talking like Ubuntu was the only distro that had any users and that is just not true. I used several other distros before I even knew what Ubuntu was. I like their direction. Some don't like Unity but many do. The Ubuntu developers are not making a mistake in my opinion. There is too much choice out there for people to get so worked up about this. There is LinuxMint, Fedora, openSuse, Mandriva, and the list goes on and on and on. What is the purpose of being confrontational? There is none.
40 • Robert Storey's opinion (by Walter on 2011-11-07 20:36:05 GMT from Canada)
Three cheers for Robert!
I claim to be a closet distroholic, checking out many of the same ones Robert did, in a different order, and also wound up using Ubuntu for many years. Like Robert, I'm not keen on how Canonical has gone about its business. For now, Linux Mint 11 (the Ubuntu done right version) is my distro of choice, while greatly anticipating the release of Mint 12. I will, however, keep an eye out for the next distro that'll be better than sliced bread. Maybe it'll be Fuduntu 14.12 that I'm grabbing as I type. :)
41 • @24 regd KDE distro of choice (by kvv on 2011-11-07 20:37:00 GMT from United States)
Given that you are used to KDE, I would highly recommend Kubuntu. They have integrated KDE very well, while keeping the look and feel stock. In addition, they have a low fat settings package, which makes the experience lighter if you so prefer.
KDE 4.7 is a stellar release, and I would recommend you to check it out anyway.
42 • @26 Emails instead of commenting... (by CliffyB on 2011-11-07 20:37:44 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
43 • @24 (by kvv on 2011-11-07 20:49:05 GMT from United States)
Oops..
Given that you are used to Ubuntu*
44 • @ 41 & 43 (by rubyplusplus on 2011-11-07 21:32:28 GMT from United States)
Noted! I definitely don't like working remotely (NX) with a different interface than I can locally. This takes gnome-shell out of the picture, but unity 2d works on both, as does KDE.
45 • Unity (by Retro Grade on 2011-11-07 22:05:55 GMT from United States)
Mark Shuttleworth recently tried to pass off discontent over Unity onto "power users" even though he admits himself that Unity isn't a good fit for even himself. He created Unity as a kind of least common denominator: a way to make Linux appeal to everyone possible, not as a way to make computers fun or more fulfilling. This, I think, is what people are reacting to.
#1: People don't like being labeled. It's patronizing and frankly a little arrogant.
#2: Just because people like the mouse usage to be efficient doesn't necessarily make them power users.
#3: Developers aren't trying to save the world of computers with Linux. They're doing what they do because they ENJOY it. If they don't, then it's a safe bet that their users aren't going to enjoy it either.
46 • Clem is on the correct path (by Joe Linuc on 2011-11-07 22:07:29 GMT from United States)
Clem correctly states the problem with both Gnome 3 and Shuttleworth's Exodus (Unity). He says, "It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)
It doesn’t do multi-tasking well (you can’t see opened windows, system tray icons, etc..)"
See: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
Of the the two, I find Gnome 3 to be more intuitive and less confusing than Shuttleworth's Exodus. One thing I absolute detest is the retched "wiper" on the left hand side of Exodus. At least the favorites launcher in Gnome 3 doesn't annoyingly keep moving in and out. Another issue with Exodus is the menus in the top bar that change with the application in focus. This is a Macintosh idea that was implemented years ago. I used Macs for many years in the school system and enjoyed them very much. However the Exodus implementation is not quite correct. For example in Firefox, instead of the menus showing, the name of the web page that is in focus shows, This is totally stupid and moronic, because you are already looking at that page in the first place.
In short Exodus provides an unnecessarily complex, confusing, and clumsy work environment. Gnome 3 is somewhat better, but still falls very short because you cannot see at a glance what tasks you have running. And it's really tough to switch between two different running applications.
Clem's Linux Mint MGSE extension will hopefully provide a reasonable solution. It has a more traditional menu set up, and continues to allow users to easily switch between and manage the tasks they have open.
47 • Unity, NOT SO BAD LIKE THAT (by Houge_Langley on 2011-11-07 22:09:39 GMT from United States)
Err, Unity NOT SO BAD like Robert said.
in some places, Unity maybe slow down and more bugs than before using gnome desktop environment. BUT, everything could not be great at first we know. Maybe, we should calm down and give Unity more time to solve the problems.
48 • Disunity (by Bill on 2011-11-07 22:10:17 GMT from United States)
I don't own an Ipad or Ipod or Blackberry or anything like that. I just have a desktop computer that I want to use both for business and fun. So when I discovered Ubuntu a little over a year ago, I was in hog heaven. And since I like to tweak things, finding compiz and fusion and emerald gave me great fun. I continued to upgrade from 8.04 to 9.10 up to 10.10 until Unity was released. Thank goodness for Distrowatch and my abilty to dual boot on 3 hard drives because I was able to test about 50 distros. The problem I have with Unity and Gnome 3 is that programs used to take 2 clicks to find and run, now take 4 or 5 clicks. I cannot design my desktop to my liking. I cannot even hide the dock. I am like a cattle being forced to move in a groove which I hate. Therefore, I too have retired Ubuntu w/Uinty, Fedora w/Gnome3 and have migrated to Zorin 5 (taking out their desktop WM and designing my own, and I also play with Mint just in case. I will not return to Ubuntu unless they give us choices again. I know it really doesn't matter to Ubuntu what I do, but it matters to me.
49 • @4 - The present of GNOME 2 (by Microlinux on 2011-11-07 22:11:10 GMT from France)
Hello everybody, and hello Caraibes a.k.a Martin,
I've recently given Unity a spin on Ubuntu 11.10, worked for it for a few days. I like it, though there are still some bugs that prevent me from using it on a production PC or install it to my clients. Currently I'm happy with 10.04 LTS, which provides all I need. I guess I'll gladly try out 12.04 once it comes out.
I have written some scripts for a personalized install of Ubuntu 10.04, to turn it into a full-blown desktop on steroids. Check it out if you're curious :
$ svn co svn://svn.tuxfamily.org/svnroot/microlinux/ubuntu
(Work in progress, might eat your hamster...)
50 • Classical or new ideas ? (by alcid on 2011-11-07 23:18:17 GMT from France)
When Ubuntu released 11.04 with Unity, I disliked it. I didn't want Gnome3 with Fedora either. So i tried Fedora spins : LXDE and XFCE. But they were rather slow on my notebook. So i came back to Ubuntu 11.10 and i had a VERY good surprise : There were two versions of Unity 2D and 3D and they worked well on my laptop ! I got used to it fast. And i can add or remove icons on the unity bar. And il's very easy to switch applications with Unity.
So where is the problem ? Give it a try before criticizing ! And good work to Ubuntu !
51 • Mint (by astrotrek on 2011-11-07 23:53:44 GMT from United States)
WOW! Mint is now #1. I have been use Ubuntu for years until Unity started with Ubuntu 11.04/11.10. I switched back to Window$ 7 but I heard Linux Mint 12 with gnome 3 will be released this month so I can't wait to see what Mint 12 looks like. I am very fond of Gnome!
52 • Unity, Ubuntu and Canonical (by Mandrivian on 2011-11-08 00:46:25 GMT from United States)
Just in case.
Canonical sells Ubuntu tablets in South Africa.
Together with Dell they were going to China and start selling Ubuntu computers there.
53 • Mint now #1 - maybe (by SlaxFan on 2011-11-08 01:03:27 GMT from United States)
Whether or not Mint is number 1 among those of us who try new distros regularly, I note that I have difficulty gaining Linux converts at work. People seem to prefer Mint to my other favorite distros (PC Linux OS, Sabayon, Debian, etc.). Mint does many things right.
54 • @26, KDE review of Fedora, please (by Mikademus on 2011-11-08 01:04:40 GMT from Sweden)
KDE on Fedora has always been the child left to it self while its Gnome brother got most of the attention, and the KDE experience has always felt somewhat less well-integrated, both in terms of polish and software, which has been frustrating. In this version they seem to imply that KDE in on equal footing with Gnome, which sounds interesting and should be explored. So I would like to request a KDE review, please.
55 • Starting to agree with Mr. Storey (by James Jones on 2011-11-08 02:09:10 GMT from United States)
Case in point: if you try a Wacom graphics tablet with Oneiric, it won't work. It will act as if you've clicked when you haven't; it will refuse to notice when you release a mouse/pen button; mouse/pen motion will be jerky. My wife was already perturbed at being forced away from GNOME 2.x (and my sister, niece, and various friends who I've set up with Ubuntu are/will be as well), but she does a lot of graphics, and Wacom functionality is VERY important to her.
According to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11435375#post11435375, the cause of the problem, Launchpad bug #863154, has been known for a week--a call to xf86PostButtonEvent() should have been a call to xf86PostButtonEventP()--but the fix has yet to make it into the repositories.
56 • perfect (by noone on 2011-11-08 02:15:53 GMT from Brazil)
"DistroWatch.com donation is Trinity Desktop Environment, while the October 2011 DistroWatch.com donation goes to LibreCAD."
Perfect choice.
57 • http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2011/14/ (by 123 on 2011-11-08 03:25:49 GMT from United States)
Way to go DistroWatch!
Even the index on Debian's main site (11/07/2011@22:22PM) does not list the current issue.
After clicking on your front page link, I got November's issue.
I tried clicking on the upper trees of the page and could not find any way to read it,
besides using the DistroWatch link.
Talk about getting news first! Even before Debian releases it!
Thanks DistroWatch!
58 • disunity (by bob mccarty on 2011-11-08 04:43:46 GMT from United States)
enjoyed you article. your path was similar to mine. first nix experience was freebsd in 1998. thought is was cool until i needed a driver for just about any devices that one might want to attach to my computer including dial up modems. then i found slackware and was hooked until ubuntu came along. ubuntu upgrades started getting buggy and found relief with librenet which was pretty cool until it was discontinued. vector linux worked for me for about 4 year until i tried linux mint and was hooked because the repositories were so much larger and it was so easy to install any thing using synaptic. being too stupid to ever successfully compile and install a source package using slackware and tired of all of the smug rudeness in the slackware user community, linux mint was a welcome relief. now i use mint xfce, puppy lucid pup, and antix. i have been experimenting with bodhi and will probably use it as the default on my laptop. salix ratpoison was interesting. the more i experiment, the more i seem to be drifting toward light weight distros and bodhi has the perfect balance for me.
59 • @26 (by Pumpino on 2011-11-08 05:34:05 GMT from Australia)
Jesse, you could always review Fedora 16 running XFCE. I've just made the switch from KDE to XFCE in both Fedora and Arch, and it's actually quite functional. It's not quite as good as Gnome 2, but it's not far from it.
60 • @6 flawed reasoning (by Vic on 2011-11-08 06:04:49 GMT from Canada)
Though I don't consider it entirely accurate to base Mint's combined ranking under one listing against Ubuntu's fragmented listings, it is even more flawed to consider combining the totals of all the Ubuntu flavors against Mint's one listing. Quite simply because one individual could easily visit each of the Ubuntu family pages and generate a hit for each visit. Where as there is only one option for Mint, hence there is only one possible page hit per individual. Really no matter how one looks at it, it's much like comparing apples to oranges the way in which the information is presented.
61 • @26, Fedora 16 Review (by Stan on 2011-11-08 07:00:37 GMT from United States)
As a Fedora KDE fan myself (with XFCE as my second choice), I'm going to have to say that GNOME is the better choice for the review. GNOME is now at 3.2 and thus past the dreaded .0 release, and Fedora, having a lot of the GNOME devs (via Red Hat), is the preeminent GNOME distribution, especially now that Ubuntu has gone its own way. A review of F16 GNOME would thus shed light on both your thoughts on Fedora 16 and on GNOME 3.2.
62 • Switching distros. (by M on 2011-11-08 11:12:29 GMT from Australia)
Average length of time on a distro ~ 1 month for 8 years.
Arch coming up to 3.
Say no more.
63 • f16 review (by Antony on 2011-11-08 11:20:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Have to go with Stan's good reasoning (61) on this.
I am more of a KDE person as well. While it would be nice to see an f16 Gnome/KDE comparison, if it has to be one or the other, then I think for fedora the review ought to be Gnome.
Thanks.
64 • systemd and Gentoo (by disi on 2011-11-08 11:25:49 GMT from Germany)
Just the link to the bug report is probably not so helpful.
Here is the official project website:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/systemd/index.xml
Official installation guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/systemd/systemd-install-guide.xml
Official WIKI page:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
Most scripts should work out of the box and some need to be manually migrated to systemd...
p.s. yes, Gentoo has finally an official wiki page :)
65 • Disunity; to all distrohoppers for years - one possible solution... (by Randy Andy on 2011-11-08 11:26:20 GMT from United States)
Do you really believe that the perfect distro exist?
If it exist for you now, would it be perfect in the future too?
Let's take the author of this funny article as an example that it would not, cause the strategy of distros could change as your needs too, over the time.
I found the solution for this misery in building my own "distribution" (Linux installation) which fit to my needs.
If i see a nice feature in any other distro I'm intereseted in, i build it also into my system.
That's not that problem, if you use the power of the source code. This makes you independent from any repository or package format.
That's one big advantage of source based distributions, but most of them are very uncomfortable and hard to maintain.
The easiest and most comfortable source based distro for me, is gentoo.
Since i know how to use it, my endless search ended here. No need for distrohopping anymore. It's worth every extra hour to study and to use cause the compiling.
Precisely Gentoo is no distro, it's a Framework to build your own.
Gentoo is all about choice.
Best regards, Andy.
66 • #60 (#6) (by zykoda on 2011-11-08 11:43:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
But so combining *buntus gives an upper estimate!
67 • Disunity - Opinion (by Robert Storey) (by randy on 2011-11-08 11:58:46 GMT from United States)
Like you i like to try a lot of different distros, but i find the best way to do that is through a VM VirtualBox. I find this is an excellent way to test out these distros and to see what might appeal to me as a preference. I have tested a lot of models like Ubuntu, which i do not like, but love Mint which is a great improvement on Ubuntu and now number one on the list. I have used Mepis, PCLinuxOS, OpenSUSE, Fedora, RedHat, Debian, Slackware, Sabayon, Puppy, Mandriva, Xandros, Linspire, GEOS, Peppermint, PinguyOS, Zorin, Ultimate, Tiny Core, Knoppix, Unity, ClearOS, DEFT, Frugalware, SuperOS, antiX, WattOS, DreamLinux, ZevenOS, TinyMe, and probably many more that i have managed to forget and overlook. I did not mention that i have also use numerous Unix variants as well as the BSD units too. Ouside the Linux arena, i have tested and used just about everything you can imagine from DOS 1.0 on up. I miss the versatility and uniqueness of OS/2 or now available as eComstation. The one thing though that Linux has over most any other OS i have tried is the ability to recognize and be aware of most Hardware systems and able to boot and run and then in most cases install without much issue. Even Windows has hardware hiccups and drivers that are omitted that you need CD's and maybe access to the internet to find the right driver to fit the device. Still every time i see a new or different DISTRO i download it and put it to the test without having to install it live and making a CD/DVD to boot the system. Well, without getting involved in side chit chat aside from the subject at hand i will call this a written comment and completed here.
Randy
68 • RE: Disunity (by Marti on 2011-11-08 13:05:44 GMT from United States)
I have been completely content running a very minimally customized Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. My Verizon DSL may infrequently be down, but I have only had 1 OS mishap in 4+ years; I did start with 7.10. With the impending demise of my familiar Gnome, I decided some weeks back to install LXDE and use that session every time I login. I like the CLEAN desktop and file menus...Mmmm, file menus.....
Does anyone have any clue if upgrading (yes, upgrading) to 12.04 will hamper alt enviros (KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc.) from working?
Thanks to everyone for reading and thanks to Distrowatch for a great site.
69 • Hey, Kiki ! (by Caraibes on 2011-11-08 17:42:19 GMT from Dominican Republic)
While I am having fun running Firefox 8 on Scientific Linux 6... I might setup a VirtualBox with Lucid, just to play with you script !!!
70 • Fedora 16 review (de) (by zykoda on 2011-11-08 17:45:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
For those that don't understand German
http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/Die-Neuerungen-von-Fedora-16-1372288.html
has an english version selectable from within.
71 • @60 Mint's combined ranking (by fox on 2011-11-08 18:05:03 GMT from Canada)
I see your point Vic, and I do agree that it is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. But there is an alternative logic to yours that should also be considered. If one is interested in trying both regular Mint Gnome and Mint LMDE, for example, it is at least as likely that one will do so on separate occasions, which would generate two page hits instead of one. In my case, I tried Mint gnome, Mint xfce, Mint fluxbox and Mint LMDE and Mint xfce LMDE, all on separate occasions generating 5 page hits. At any rate, I think that most people agree that DistroWatch hit rankings do not necessarily reflect the popularity of a distro.
72 • @71 Even more important... (by Vic on 2011-11-08 19:22:57 GMT from Canada)
As far as I'm concerned the popularity of individual projects is far less important than the growing popularity of FOSS in general as viable alternatives to using the mainstream closed platforms. I personally enjoy using Linux on my PCs, and the large selection of options available to choose from is a boon. I may not be a fan of the direction some distros have taken but there is so much out there to choose from that I generally always find something to suit my needs.
73 • dis-unity (by walter_j on 2011-11-08 21:59:48 GMT from Canada)
I'm trying distros to find a replacement for 10.10, and a may have found few i may live with - reluctantly - including kubuntu and a lxde distro. It's always such a relief to boot back int0 10.10 after trying other distros, so it's going to be a tough change I think.
The distro that aggravated me the most was opensuse 12.1 with gnome 3. I can't stand gnome 3. KDE has potential, but there's problems there too. Akondai and neoputk are more trouble then they're worth. Akondai has broken kontact I think. I can't get kontact running, and evolution looks hideous in KDE. KDE aps look good in gnome 3.28 though, so I wish KDE could improve the looks of gtk apps.
Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE.
74 • @73: Adversity fosters resistance (by Mikademus on 2011-11-09 00:20:19 GMT from Sweden)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
The common reaction to criticism is unfortunately not reflection, analysis and improvement or change, but defensiveness, resistance, denial, resentment, self-martyrdom and isolationism. It is visible in GNOME3 (the users are all wrong and we know better) as well as in KDE4 with akonadi/nepomuk (refusal to admit to the nepomuk issues and stubborn closing of bug tickets as wontfix to silence the criticism).
KDE has gone from strength to strength, but the 4.0 introduction debacle should have tought the developers what can happen when you mismanage your community and the nepomuk situation risks causing severe badwill. It is already generating plenty of bad word-of-mouth.
Yes, disabling nepomuk wrecks the functionality of Kontakt and mail indexing in Kmail, but perhaps this indicates too strong an ambition to centralise everything in KDE (strigi, akonadi, nepomuk, Kmail, Kontakt) where modularity and user choice might be better. Hopefully this will be resolved or some good alternatives will emerge.
75 • @73, 74 (by Stan on 2011-11-09 01:16:16 GMT from United States)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
Sadly, the trend of the tabletifacation of the desktop is not relegated to FOSS. In Mac OS X, Lion has one foot in the traditional desktop world and one in the tablet world, and Windows 8 is jumping in with both feet, relegating the traditional desktop to "legacy" status! Hopefully it will just be a fad, as people realize that traditional desktop metaphors work better than touch-based ones on the desktop, but currently, the trends are quite worrying, in both FOSS and proprietary desktop environments.
76 • systemd dependencies (by 123 on 2011-11-09 02:59:13 GMT from United States)
I think I'm the only one who does not like Systemd because of the Dbus dependency.
I run Debian Squeeze without Dbus, Hal, or any other system daemon, except init.
Since the upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze and my final straightening out of Inserv's mess,
which I may have probably caused by not letting apt fully install it originally, my boot time has easily dropped to half or less.
But Systemd promises this and more, but Dbus appears to be a necessary dependency.
Debian site seems to mention about going at least three cycles until they fully implement it.
As I said, I'm probably in the tiny minority about not wanting Dbus, since most desktop environments seem to already have it as a needed dependency.
Would anyone else rather not have Dbus running?
77 • @76, D-Bus and systemd (by Stan on 2011-11-09 05:01:29 GMT from United States)
D-Bus is a relatively light-weight IPC protocol, nothing more. When booted up to Debian, it takes merely 3 MB (two dbus-daemon processes and one dbus-launch process). On embedded or ancient systems, I could see that being a problem, but that's still only around 1% of memory on an old computer with only 256 MB, to say nothing of modern systems with gigabytes upon gigabytes of memory.
I can see there being valid complaints against systemd: harder to write units as they have to be in C rather than shell (though there is sysv-compatability mode), tightly tied to the Linux kernel, more complexity, etc... Dependence on D-Bus seems a rather petty reason not to like it though, IMHO.
78 • Bold moves. (by wizix on 2011-11-09 07:19:49 GMT from Germany)
my main two desktops are fedora and mint, but in my opinion what ubuntu is doing is very beneficial to desktop advancement, so what if their new environment isn't very catchy or there is a general distaste for it by the "old" users, if it is good it will stay and if its not it will probably be changed to something better as fast as it was first introduced. the fact that Canonical has good financial resources and large user base means that new and good ideas that might otherwise fail due to lack of resources have a chance to be widely tested and adopted. if I was to place a bet on which distro will set the new standard in linux user interface I would think that ubuntu would do it. although at present I personally don't like unity :)
79 • systemd is trying to do this? (by technosaurus on 2011-11-09 10:08:13 GMT from United States)
you _could_ use systemd... or you could add a function to your init script that allows you to fork processes and wait for them using
wait_pids(){
#use echo to make pids space separated (faster than piping through tr/sed)
PIDS=`echo $@`
#use substring manipulation to convert it to a test syntax
#works in ash,hush,bash but not dash/sh - use sed in dash/sh (it will be slower)
PIDS="[ -d /proc/"${PIDS// / ] || [ -d /proc/}" ]"
while (`eval $PIDS`) ; do usleep 1000;done
}
command args &
PIDS=$!
another_command args &
PIDS="$PIDS $!"
#do other stuff here if needed
wait_pids $PIDS
now just get your project management software out and figure out your predecessors and successors and you can get your boot down to <2 seconds
ok... you'll also have to clean up all the other legacy code too
80 • @68 lxde upgrade to 12.04 (by Jb on 2011-11-09 13:10:58 GMT from United States)
Does anyone have any clue if upgrading (yes, upgrading) to 12.04 will hamper alt enviros (KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc.) from working?
I'll make a prediction with respect to KDE,Xfce, and LXDE. From what I have seen, they are not doing anything nutty or revolutionary with these desktop environments. You probably won't see much of a difference, except that a couple of problems that irritate you might (or might not) get fixed. Now, if they come out with a kde5, that could be the same sort of drama as KDE4 or GNOME3
81 • RE: 73 (by Ron on 2011-11-09 21:08:54 GMT from United States)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
Yes, paying really makes a difference - remember NEW COKE!
82 • Unity, G3 (by mike on 2011-11-09 22:03:13 GMT from United States)
Gnome 3 and Unity never cease to confuse me. There's a lot of people talking about the need to build a bridge between desktops and little gadgets by creating a common interface.
A big screen and a smartphone are two entirely different things. I tried GNOME 3 on my desktop and it was a joke. I couldn't even minimize/maximize windows. Unity was worse. I was back to good old XFCE in a heartbeat.
The whole unified UI thing was dreamed up by money-hungry corporations because they need to sell more products. Windows XP was great but the folks at M$ had to create the vista nightmare and the boring Windows 7 because you need to force people to keep giving you money. Linux is not like that.
83 • @80 - the reply to 68 (by Marti on 2011-11-09 22:39:04 GMT from United States)
Thank you very much. I will keep hope alive that after upgrading to 12.04 my LXDE will work! ;)
84 • Sabayon slowness (by Nick on 2011-11-09 23:45:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good review of Sabayon, I find everything works in this which is what you need. I don't find it particularly slow even if it is slower than Ubuntu, but then again i don't care if I have to wait a few more seconds for things to work better.
85 • Network Mangler (by Woody Oaks on 2011-11-10 01:13:21 GMT from United States)
Is anyone else having difficulty establishing a network connection with the Fedora 16_64 DVD installer?
86 • Fedora 16 (by dc on 2011-11-10 01:55:16 GMT from United States)
Re: 26
I also would prefer a comparison of the KDE and Gnome versions of Fedora. As someone else said, they supposedly put more effort into this KDE version (with good reason) than in previous versions and KDE 4 has developed into quite a nice environment with the release of KDE 4.7. It would be nice to compare that to the supposedly improved Gnome 3.2.
If a comparison is not possible than I would prefer a review of the KDE version.
87 • "73 • dis-unity (by walter_j" (by Verndog on 2011-11-10 03:27:01 GMT from United States)
Comment #73 is exactly my feelings. I have been using Ubuntu Lucid as my main Linux
OS. I do have Mint 9 installed, and use it as well.
I tried Ubuntu's Unity distros and find them not to my liking. Knowing the Lucids LTS will come to and end of its life cycle next year, I am in a quandry as to what to use next.
I have used KDE, but prefer Gnome....
then I just downloaded Fedora Verne (because of my namesake :) ). I was blown away it its speed. Tried Gnome3 in the early stages and it was awfull. Fedora on my USB was faster than anything to date on bootup.
Now its installed and not knowing RPM very well I am left with allowing its automatic updates to take over. I am very use to using Debian's 'apt-get', and 'Apptitude'.
The only thing that I couldn't find was how to reboot or shut the thing off. Found out its ALT+Suspend. There is suppose to be another way using the logout method, but that didn't work.
Ala and all, I am real plea
sed with Fedora 16 and Gnome3 interface. Time will tell.
88 • Re #82 & others (by imnotrich on 2011-11-10 03:32:56 GMT from Mexico)
Actually, I find Windows 7 exciting because you never know what will break next, where to find your files (since the introduction of these stupid "libraries" which obfuscate the actual file tree) and who know what window will pop up or close without being asked to. Network configuration is a joy too, because the operating system thinks you are stupid and tries to override your settings now and then.
People pay for inferior products all the time. Vista, WIndows 7, the new coke (at least until the old coke came back) because there are limited options available. This is what has allowed M$ to survive one boner after another.
The last version of Ubuntu to support my laptop was 9.04. Every Ubuntu release since then has been overwhelmingly...disappointingIy so. I was recently able to sort of get 11.10 running on my laptop briefly. To enable video forced me to disable 16 different boot parameters which also disabled my wireless card. Pointless.
Before I gave up though, I did experiment with unity for a few hours. Saw enough. Unity is not designed for laptops or desktops or even tablets or smart phones. The only thing Unity did well was cause repetitive strain injuries through additional keystrokes and mouse clicks that a NORMAL GUI wouldn't ask of you.
Sure, tablets, pads and smartphones are fun gadgets but they're mostly toys. Unless we have some odd human evolutionary bump simultaneously increasing visual acuity while at the same time making fingers smaller and more able to operate these silly small screens...the laptop and desktop will remain the only tools for serious work.
Developers sometimes forget that hardware support is not bloat, and usability/functionality (including UI's that make sense) should be a priority unless they only aspire to be a fringe hobby distro used only by geeks with thick glasses and a pocket protector. That seems to be the direction Ubuntu has chosen, and I wish them well but nobody who is paying attention should be surprised that as a result Ubuntu has been spanked by Mint.
89 • Pre-Loaded Distros (by Terry Lee on 2011-11-10 03:38:06 GMT from Australia)
As a long-time user of Linux (mainly Fedora and Ubuntu but now Mint-HATE UNITY) I have been fascinated by what various distros consider we should have on our desktops. Whilst many such as an office application or a graphics program are no-brainers, many of the others seem to me to be a way for the distro to plug its favourite programs or to get us users to have the same likes and dislikes as they do. WHY??
As many of the downloads now exceed a gb it seems that its time to take another look at this age-old system. Why are we not able to simply download the distribution and to add the other applications as we require them? Who choses what we download? How do they know my requirements? Even that other mob that use soft micros allow you the opportunity to chose the makeup of your system.Mahjong may be absolutely fascinating for some bit I"m sure the majority of us would not use it.
There are others in most distributions BUT the list of alternatives plus other more common applications that are kept in the repositories allow us to ONLY download what we want and to minimise the bloat on our computers.
How about it Mr Fedora, Mr Mint, Mr Ubuntu and others. We are not really that stupid.
90 • There's a thingamajig for that… (by Jeff Dickey on 2011-11-10 07:06:06 GMT from Singapore)
Apt point on Sabayon; they've been raising the number and quality of editions steadily over the years. But I thought part of the point of Linux since SLS was new and shiny was, "there's a DISTRO for that". From IBM mainframes to souvenir trinkets, from critical system automation to your television set, we've all been Linux users for years now.
The irony is, of course, that the more explosive growth there is in the overall ecosystem, the more stable the content, if not the order, of the Top 5 on DW has become. Many of us started out as distroholics, but too few of us have the time to keep the binge going.
91 • re: 87 Fedora 16 (by Michael J King on 2011-11-10 07:50:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I too ran Fedora Verne from a usb and as my thinkpad x40 couldn't use the full blown Gnome 3 I booted into the safe 2d mode, I was using 209mb of ram...pretty good, especially as This looked something like a normal gnome desktop(without the full gnome 2 functionality)
92 • re: 89 (by disi on 2011-11-10 08:20:50 GMT from Germany)
With great choice comes great responsibility...
You can do whatever you want with a Gentoo installation, but guess why it isn't as popular as distributions that make the choices for the user?
FreeBSD has a different approach. Give the user base system and let them handle/install all the applications as ports (X, desktop, servers, office etc.).
Gentoo goes a step further and lets users easily change parts of the base system as well (bootloader, kernel, systemlogger, init system etc.).
93 • Re: 87 Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS 3 years on desktop (by hobbitland on 2011-11-10 09:29:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS is not ending support next year. Not its until 2013-04 for desktop and 2015-04 on servers.
I am seriously itchimng to mv to Linux Minit 13 when it comes out. I have managed to make Ubutnu 11.10 useable by installing Gnome 3 classic (gnome-session-fallback, gnome-tweak-tools, gdm) and I actually rm the dis-unity desktop and lightdm. Ligthdm is so tied to dis-unity desktop at least in Ubuntu (ie ligthtdm breaks if dis-unity is rm ed). Ubuntu needs to make an official Gnome 3 spin called gubuntu.
I think we need same desktop on commerical desktops and home systems. Currently, RHEL 6.1, CentOS 6 and Scientific Linux 6.1 are using Gnome 2 so that environment is what I need to use. I don't see how dis-unity desktop can ever be used by RHEL so it will have to be Gnome 3 shell in the long term.
Meanwhile the next LTS will be Gnome 3 classic for a couple more years on either Ubutnu 12.04 LTS or Linux Mint 13 until RHEL 7 and Scientific Linux are released.
Non LTS distro only deserves to be installed in a VM for testing. Soon Ubuntu will lose crown to Linux Mint on Distrowatch 12 month time scale. I think 12 months is the fair time period to look at rankings.
94 • Solaris 11 (by Bards on 2011-11-10 10:27:41 GMT from Australia)
Should solaris 11 be listed here ? It is not open-source any more and IMHO, is not deserved of the free publicity !
Do new versions of Windows get a mention ?
8-)
95 • UI (by mythdc on 2011-11-10 16:25:10 GMT from United States)
I dist-upgraded and gave unity a fair shot. In the end I discovered it wasn't for me, im quite ok with that. The Ubuntu focus has always been inovation and welcoming new users. Not new to computers but new to Linux. What I have come to learn is that I am no longer a new user (also I think I have ADD as the more eye-candy my DE has the less work I get done). I don't have any problem with Unity nor with Gnome 3 they just aren't for me. But this has made me love Linux more. I backed up and installed Sabayon 5.4 (wanted to test the upgrade path which worked execellent BTW) this is how I realized Gnome 3 is not for me either. Once again the beauty of Linux shines through. With Mac OS or Windows, you don't like the UI or DE too bad! For the most part instead we still have many options such as install another WM/UI or DE and change the session also you can reinstall a different spin Kubuntu, Xubuntu or what have you. You could also download the core distro in this case Sabayon spinbase, or Ubuntu mini, Debian core and pick whatever setup you want. Additionally there are many nitch distros that might fullfill your needs.
Good Luck.
96 • Solaris 11 (by Jesse on 2011-11-10 17:01:00 GMT from Canada)
>> "Should solaris 11 be listed here ? It is not open-source any more"
Why do you think Solaris is not open source anymore? The GPLed bits are available for download here: http://oss.oracle.com/systems-opensourcecode/
Oracle has stated the rest of the operating system will soon be available for download under the CDDL.
97 • Toys (by Ron on 2011-11-10 23:45:00 GMT from United States)
"Sure, tablets, pads and smartphones are fun gadgets but they're mostly toys. Unless we have some odd human evolutionary bump simultaneously increasing visual acuity while at the same time making fingers smaller and more able to operate these silly small screens..the laptop and desktop will remain the only tools for serious work. "
Yes, toys, mostly. Lots of people seem to love those mobiles, almost to the point of being rude. I had a friend visit the wife and me a few days ago and she started playing with the I-phone. It rang and then she started, (it rings every 10 minutes or so), and she began playing on and on and us just sitting there wondering about her visit.
Drivers using it all over the road, waiting at a green traffic light to play with the gadget. Oh, yes ran right through a stop sign in front of me as I could see the woman yapping away on the gadget. I sometimes hear people walking alone in public talking loudly ( they almost always do yell on cell phones - I guess they think it puts out more power that way). The first impression is that the person is a mental before I see the phone appear, then the second impression is that the person really is a mental.
98 • Re: Disunity (by Shahryar on 2011-11-11 07:49:01 GMT from Pakistan)
Excellent article. Ilearned Linux with Slackware, tried Redhat 6.0 switched to Debian3.0, then Ubuntu. Ubuntu 5.04 was the smoothest, cleanest, most comfortable Linux experience ever. But then bloatware, or bling or Winitis (wanna be fat, dumb and stupid like Windows) happened. By the time Ubuntu 10.04 came along, I was recommending Mint to first time users. For myself, I switched to Arch Linux. The machines which crawled with Lubuntu 8.04 are flying with Arch+LXDE. Machines that used to take over one minute to boot now take just under 40 seconds. Its not for newbies, but its excellent wiki and forums take the guesswork and trial and error out of your first install. It, in my opinion is the ideal tinkerer distro between Gentoo and Slackware.
Speed, simplicity, reliability, these are qualities for long term distro success.
99 • Solaris 11 (by Bards on 2011-11-11 10:05:45 GMT from Australia)
>>Why do you think Solaris is not open source anymore? The GPLed bits are available for download here: http://oss.oracle.com/systems-opensourcecode/
>>Oracle has stated the rest of the operating system will soon be available for download under the CDDL.
You are joking right, Oracle may have *said* something, but we'll wait and see if they make good on their statement.
So we can expect to see announcements about these in the future;
* VMS
* HP-UX
* AIX
* Windows
?????
100 • Solaris 11 (by mechanic on 2011-11-11 12:58:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
If anyone is tired of the same old distros with minor changes from version to version, try Solaris 11 ! It's a whole new ball-game in terms of difficulty of managing the system. My trial install totally destroyed the Grub installer and left me with a dead machine, thankfully restoring Grub to another system on another partition enabled trials to continue...but with no decent forums for support and impenetrable docs, not to mention unusual file systems etc., it's a real puzzle to get working nicely. On the upside it looks nice and apparently it's secure. Anyone who finds Ubuntu too easy to work with should give it a try!
101 • Disunity (by Sayth on 2011-11-11 13:03:27 GMT from Australia)
Why Why Why do i always have to be the odd one out really come on guys and girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For years I have not like Ubuntu always preferred Fedora and I would sometimes use Vectorlinux, ubuntu never seemed complete. Now when everyone else is Jumping off a cliff about Ubuntu I like it Nay I love it.
Unity on a laptop is a friggin awesome distro, wireless connections(including broadcom) automatically detected, you get a desktop that stays out of your way and maximises your display, has long battery life in comparison to the other distro's I recently tested as well.
Sure this release is at 85-90% but it has me revved up for the next LTS release its gonna kill. When people actually grasp lenses and the dash it will be another story.
I will admit there is only one sticking point whilst Ubuntu is going to be great for mobile devices laptops, netbooks & u-Pad ???? I do concede that it doesn't translate as well to a desktop PC.
However this will likely also be the last PC I ever have if it dies I will simply get another laptop.
102 • RE: 101 (by Landor on 2011-11-11 18:37:10 GMT from Canada)
I figure it's great for any system, in all truth.
I've said this before, and will again, the biggest point is that menus are one of the biggest problems on the desktop. The add in the slab menus too, and it gets crazy. Having to deal with all the levels of a menu is just unproductive, very much so.
What makes me wonder in that regard is this community are the people who love the keyboard. I've said this and it's true, the GNOME and Unity shells have the potential to be a power user's dream. Anyone coming from another operating system to this one has to be considered, even of the smallest scale, a power user. Why? Because they install operating systems, take control of their system. Many love keyboard shortcuts, so why couldn't they appreciate a simple interface that drives them to that end?
What some distribution should do is duplicate the efforts of CrunchBang and ArchBang by putting a reference to the shortcuts for the shells on the desktop, via conky, or even a background if desired. That would definitely go a long way. Just to prove a point on this too, I know people who never used shortcuts ever and used CrunchBang loved the shortcuts thanks to the conky script.
Anyway, they're far more efficient in that regard than the DEs we've been using.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
103 • Menus (by fernbap on 2011-11-11 18:58:58 GMT from Portugal)
I don't understand why people would havew anything against menus. Menus are a trail that leads to all applications. You can't go wrong with a menu.
It is also, obviously, the most newcomer friendly approach, since it allows anyone who is not familiar with the desktop to run any application. Not only that, it is a way to show the newcomer which applications he has available.
Sure, it may not be the quickest way to do things, but it is the sure way to get there.
That doesn't mean that the desktop can't have ways to ease the task for the most used applications, which they usually have.
But get rid of menus? Are people insane?
104 • Menus (by Landor on 2011-11-11 21:34:12 GMT from Canada)
Obviously you believe in limited functionality.
GNOME and Canonical both have brought a better, more intelligent option to the old dilemma of needlessly flipping through sections to find out what you want. Then let's not forget that every single menu structure differs as to the preferences of the DE/WM, or the developer of each.
In fact, people who use mobile phones (which are the majority of the world) negates your belief that people need a menu to see what is there. Just because people think another operating system made them first, and that's what everyone uses, is what everyone will expect, doesn't mean it's true. I the shell alternatives far more user friendly, and far easier to explore for anyone. Oh, and new users to a computer are pretty well a myth in this age, unless they're a child, and if so, they're readily taught new things that they don't have some preconceived belief about that people who are too fixed to progress with do have.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
105 • Interfaces (by Jesse on 2011-11-11 23:01:09 GMT from Canada)
>> "Anyone coming from another operating system to this one has to be considered, even of the smallest scale, a power user. Why? Because they install operating systems, take control of their system. "
While that used to be true, I don't think it holds anymore. Lots of people these days use Linux, but didn't install it themselves. Lots of people post here about introducing their friends or family to Linux and installing it for them to avoid dealing with malware.
That aside, I do agree that simplified interfaces, if designed properly, have the potential to appeal to a wide audience. The example with the short-cut keys is quite spot-on. Putting those in the background was a great move by the developers.
I think the big issue a lot of people have with GNOME Shell and Unity isn't the default design so much as the lack of configuration options. A good graphical interface should be fast to respond, intuitive, flexible, consistent and easy to navigate quickly. I believe the intuitiveness and navigation of GNOME 3 and Unity are up for debate and will vary from person to person. However, neither is flexible nor responsive and Unity (at least) isn't consistent.
106 • Desktop Environments (by tdockery97 on 2011-11-11 23:29:35 GMT from United States)
The comments here demonstrate the undeniable fact that everyone has different tastes and different needs. That is, of course, why we all use Linux. Well, guess what? You want Gnome Shell? We got it. You want Classic Gnome? We got it. You want single panel at the bottom Gnome? We got it. And we got it all in ONE single edition. The new Linux Mint 12 Lisa is almost here. It's just been released in RC status, and gives you the choice of using Gnome 3 Shell, Classic Gnome desktop, or the Mint-style Gnome desktop with a single panel at the bottom using MATE. I may get deleted for "spamming", but I just want to point out that it IS possible to provide a choice for everyone.
107 • Gnome Shell and Unity (by Henning on 2011-11-12 00:29:59 GMT from Denmark)
In my opinion, Unity and Gnome Shell share 2 problems, that keep me from using them: 1. When you have several applications running at the same time, navigating between them is confusing.
2- They are quite demanding on hardware resources. They seem quite slow, compared to LXDE.
If the top panel in Unity (I think it is called "Global Menu") would show open applications, so that switching between them was easier, and if Unity was made less demanding on hardware resources (and therefore faster) I would go back to using Unity
108 • What linux is best for syncing your samsung galaxy tablet 10.1 usb connection (by androidsamsung on 2011-11-12 02:17:15 GMT from United States)
I was just wondering , also remastersys seems very broken in ubuntu as of current versions of ubuntu, and that relinux fails to make a usable version of ubuntu 11.10 for me, it will not boot, I was also using ubuntu tweak for it of course, it runs fine, but as soon as I tried that relinux instead of remastersys, the usb image fails to start up based on what I had installed of course
these are and lack of good hardware plug and play support is why I have to stick with windows all the game, plus gaming reasons too, dual booting is a need for me, linux alone can't do it
109 • Gnome shell and Unity (by fernbap on 2011-11-12 02:45:51 GMT from Portugal)
Clem explained it better than i could.
Gnome shell and Unity are application centric, while gnome 2 is task centric, and your opinion goes exactly according to that definition.
An application centric desktiop makes sense on a smartphone or a tablet, but it certainly doesn't make sense in a PC workstation.
Also, there are 2 very different approaches to things. For instance, if i want to listen to a mp3 file, i open my mp3 folder, and double-click on the file i want to hear.
An application centric environment makes me have to load the mp3 player first, and then look for my mp3 file from within that application. Sometimes, the application itself doesn't allow you to browse your disk, but relies on a "library" that is not updated in real time.
That fact is, in fact, why i don't like KDE 4. It is too application centric.
110 • Unity & Gnome == Vim & Emacs Full circle (by Sayth on 2011-11-12 02:59:44 GMT from Australia)
Unity and gnome3 are becoming powerful tools. Using them feels a lot like vim & emacs after a little usage they become powerful tools. Your hands never have to leave the keyboard to slide a mouse and click and back and forth again when using unity especially.
Just like some people will never come too like vim or emacs the same will be true of gnome3 & unity. Both emacs and vim after al these years still have large communities due to the power they bring to the user and I think we will find the same of unity and gnome3.
111 • Keyboard shortcuts on a touch screen? (by RollMeAway on 2011-11-12 03:21:27 GMT from United States)
Makes NO sense to me.
Guess you could call up an on screen keyboard and awkwardly touch two keys.
If this is progress, leave me out.
112 • DVL, dead? (by Chuck on 2011-11-12 08:09:58 GMT from United States)
A few weeks back I asked about the dilinquent status of
DVL. Curiously the next week they posted a -new- expection date, end of 2011. Over the past week however, the message strongly suggests the distro is dead -- as in '... quit looking for something that doesn't exist'./
Any enlightenment available?
chuck
113 • DE configurability (by zykoda on 2011-11-12 09:30:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Some years ago I tried to remove "icon" displays from the file manager and menu systems. It would have proved very tedious to go through the process. What I required was just a plain text listing (ls) since the icons had little utility. It would appear today, that those seemingly meaningless "glyphs" have now found currency. I suppose it's yet another housekeeping feature like the invention of the filename or variable. Everything will soon be a glyph which is OK if you speak glyphish. Still the Greeks continue to channel philosophy.... "The Greeks had a glyph for it".
114 • @109 (by Brandon Sniadajewski on 2011-11-12 12:51:59 GMT from United States)
KDE 4, at least the regular desktop UI, is still very much task-centric. It still has a taskbar (called Task Manager, but you can have other task maangers, like Smooth Tasks for Win7-like experience). I'm not certain about the netbook UI as I don't use it though, but KDE still has a definitely a good desktop experience if you want that.
115 • FreeBSD packages on dvd1 (by Cyclops on 2011-11-13 01:18:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Does anyone know if new FreeBSD9.0 will release dvd1 with packages, or does one have to build the system on our own like betaX and rc1?
Also if anyone has scripts to build livecd/livedvd in FreeBSD would you mind sharing them or pointing to a site where this is explained. FreeSBIE is an outdated project and is next to useless. Thanks!
116 • re #115 FreeBSD live (by gnomic on 2011-11-13 02:07:00 GMT from New Zealand)
ghostbsd.org may be of interest.
117 • re #100 - Solaris 11 (by Breathing Brain on 2011-11-13 18:14:09 GMT from United States)
Beautiful post, mechanic. Those are very much my experiences with Solaris. But it's the distro that started me into Unix/Linuxland, so I take a run at it every so often. It provides frustrations and aggravations that are truly special.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand it's device naming conventions....
118 • Fedora 16 Install fiasco. (by Jeffersonian on 2011-11-13 18:33:23 GMT from United States)
Hello:
I have used read hat and fedora for about 12 years....
And I have always found this distro leading the pack.
But this time, I tried to install Fedora 16 on a multi boot system (Mint, Fedora 15, Centos 6, Win 7), using the usual custom install, and I have to admit it is a total fiasco !
I used the Fedora 16 x64 DVD on an HP (so far rock stable) machine.
First I reformatted a (logical) partition a btfrs and tried to install Fedora 16 (F16) on it: not only could I not even have the installer to allow me a custom install on the freshly partitioned partition (/dev/sda9).
Further more this attempt to install damaged very badly the existing FC15 partition that I wanted to keep pristine, until FC16 was proven stable.
I tried to reformat a partition as ext4: still anaconda would not even allow me to install FC16 on this partition at all ! urthermore it is almost forcing me to install LVM that I do not want (I have my reasons).
Why a new installer (Anaconda) when the old one did the job, and was reliable?
Better cosmetic to compete with Mint/Ubuntu I guess: why not ?
but then it has to be usable !
Also it would be a great idea to integrate (as an option) gparted as part of the installer... because it works very well : only the old Mandrake was to this level of usability!
This new installer has for the moment all the bad sides of Windows: trying to hard to second guess what the user want to achieve: so far not a success!
I suggest that the custom install (usually used on multi-boot systems) does not attempt to second-guess the user, and just does what the user wishes to do. And this goes for the boot loader, and the boot sector too !
I am sure that will be fixed.... and sooner or later I will be a FC16 user, still the most appealing distro for a developer (Ubuntu/Mint have in my view serious short commings for kernel work!).
By the way: since most Linux Installers try to reinvent the wheel it would very useful if a group could just focus on creating the best Linux Distro installer, to take that part away from the Ubuntu, Fedora crowd, because they are not so good here !
Mandrake had one of the best installer, years ago, it was KDE 3 based.
It is also unfortunate that neither KDE nor GNOME could provide a long term stable platform for a good Linux installer... that may be a part of the problem: need some stability there: difficult to build on unstable ground. Here the quest for eye-candy seems to have been counter productive, it has bee achieved at a high cost.
I am looking forward for (in my view) the best Linux Distro for developper to be at leat usable...
J.
119 • re #98 -- Re: Disunity (by Breathing Brain on 2011-11-13 18:57:25 GMT from United States)
I was also a distroholic and my path was similar to Shahryar's. Except that I never found a non-lite distro that was fast enough, and I wasn't willing to wait for newly developed hardware's speed to overcome the software bloat. I first got into Linux with Mandrake and Red Hat, and stayed with Mandrake because it was reasonably user-friendly. I kept looking at other distros, but for all the bloat and other problems of Mandrake/Mandriva, I never found a non-lite distro that was much better. Until I stumbled onto Archlinux, which pleased me so much I soon switched and never looked back.
After years of using KDE and Gnome, found them bloated and slow. I like the reasonably full-featured lighter graphical environments like xfce4 and lxde, which provided the same functionality I got from KDE and Gnome, but without being complex and slow and requiring the installation of so much supporting software.
It was a little disconcerting to feel most of my distroholic urges dry up, because trying new distros can be fun. But I still check some out every so often. Recently I tried installed Ubuntu but for some reason it wouldn't install. I installed Lubuntu instead, and it seems to work okay.
I periodical install *ubuntu because it's become so huge in the Linux scene, not because I like it much. It's supposed to be this great distro for newbies, but it doesn't work all that perfectly, at least not on my hardware, and requires as much tinkering with nagging little issues as most other distros do after installation. Plus *ubuntu does enough things differently from other distros for no apparent advantage that it's sort of its own standard, and there's nothing so wonderful about *ubuntu that makes me want to take the time to learn all the differences. Though every so often I install a new version and give it a chance to change my mind for me. It hasn't yet.
The Unixes, which I guess are BSDs and Solaris, are their own special kind pain. In my experience, the idea of a desktop BSD is a joke. And you gotta love Unices which feature file systems that want to take over the entire hard drive. Or those that have such crappy partitioning tools that you can only get them to install on primary partitions. It's amusing to install Unices and see how close to useful functionality you can get them to.
120 • Re: 118 Re: Fedora 16 (by dc on 2011-11-13 19:26:28 GMT from United States)
Fedora finally gave into peer pressure and upgraded to Grub 2 for Fedora 16. If you do custom partitioning, you need to create a 1 MB Grub partition. By the way, Fedora has been using anaconda for many years, it isn't a new installer.
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