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1 • Sticking with Gnome 2.x while trying MGSE (by LiQuidKermit on 2011-11-07 10:48:19 GMT from Indonesia)
I'm linux mint user and will of course continue using MATE (gnome 2.x fork) as my daily desktop, while on the same time exploring MGSE. Who knows I'll like MGSE and change into it. Years ago I'll be thrilling to try new revolutionary things such as Unity or Shell. But today, I need my PC experience to be a "just works" without having to re-learn and re-adapt new things.
2 • Gnoem 3 fallback (by hobbitland on 2011-11-07 11:12:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I am planning to use Gnoem 3 fallback until RHEL 7 / Scientific Linux 7 supports Gnome 3 shell. Then I will use Ubuntu with Gnoem 3 shell & SL 7 with Gnome 3 shell.
I need same environment for both commerical and home user desktops. So using Gnome 3 fallback to get the Gnome 2 classic migth be ok for a year or two.
Linux Mint is looking promising but I don't like that Windows XP look. May look at Mint 12 again when it comes out.
3 • Mint & R4W (by How-old! on 2011-11-07 11:16:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ardent readers of DW will be aware that Mint has displaced Ubuntu at the top of the charts on previous occasions. Maybe we can ask Ladislav to trawl his records and give us the full SP?!
R4W want $10 for their distro and have the gaul to ask $5 for PartEd Magic. Perhaps someone can explain to them that asking cash for Linux not only offends against the gargantuan efforts of devoted public-spirited developers but is also a thoroughly bad business model which has already put paid to a number of much higher profile attempts. Transitioning from one OS to another is always fraught but once achieved pays long term dividends. As a happy Minty person, the LXDE or Xfce versions would be a good place for refugees to start.
As for Sabayon, have tried most of the previous releases. They seem to get bigger and bigger with longer and longer boot-up (or not boot-up!) times and installation times. No.7 is no exception. This distro has had a spate of issues over the years, especially non-booting. Have found it attempts to be far too glitzy with poor productivity. Recently have been wary of overly large distros with someone else's selection of software. Surely it's better to have a compact distro with a substantial package repo which is frequently overhauled and an effective (not all are effective) update/upgrade path.
4 • RHEL clones !!!!!!! (by Caraibes on 2011-11-07 11:17:44 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I can't believe I am reading "Linux aux petits oignons" again !
Kiki Novak where are you ?
I am back in RHEL universe... Where Gnome 2 still has a future ;)
Good guide here as well: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/centos-perfect-desktop.html
5 • MGSE (by pera on 2011-11-07 11:26:41 GMT from Serbia)
Yes,MGSE is way how gnome3 should look like. I think many users will switch from ubuntu to mint in next few months. And I think MGSE will be the most used gnome shell extension also on other distros. Mate desktop is much better choice than gnome-fallback mode for those with low end graphics cards.
6 • Linux Mint #1? (by fox on 2011-11-07 11:49:21 GMT from Canada)
While I have little doubt that the trend for change is meaningful, to say that Mint is #1, even based on DistroWatch page hit rankings is not quite right. All versions of Mint are counted in one place, whereas for Ubuntu, every version has a separate entry. Adding up the 'buntu page hits will give you at least a 50% higher count than Mint.
7 • @6: counting and ... (by meanpt on 2011-11-07 11:55:37 GMT from Portugal)
... you're deadly right. And I don't know of any mint based distro, with the exception of one based on mint lxde which is based on lubuntu ... and I like to use G3S as well as Unity (having applications running in full screen is really good - do that, mint!).
8 • MGSE (by smellyman on 2011-11-07 12:01:57 GMT from Hong Kong)
I wish the Mint team would concentrate on MGSE and make it the best distro they can moving forward (it looks VERY promising)......Am I the only one to not understand the yet another split in development and working on Mate? There are loads of great DE's and WM's out there and XFCE was already quite close to Gnome2 and will continue to get great support.
9 • @8: MATE vs other DM (by LiQuidKermit on 2011-11-07 12:08:23 GMT from Indonesia)
The thing is Gnome is the desktop with most user, and I believe most of them choose to stick with it. Why? Because it works. If it works, why should I change? I just want to use computer. If I can still use Gnome 2.x (MATE) then there's no reason to convert to xfce,shell, or other.
I think this is why windows xp is very famous. Eventough vista and 7 has been out for years, windows xp user base is still very high.
10 • Fedora 16/Mint 12 (by Sven on 2011-11-07 12:16:29 GMT from Sweden)
I have been using Fedora 16 RC and it quite good and already updated. I am awaiting the Gnome 3 desktop tomorrow. Also will be looking forward for Mint 12 with Gnome 3 + Mint specialities.
11 • #6 (by zykoda on 2011-11-07 12:29:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
A point made in distrowatch issue 429 comments!
12 • Linux Mint - the new "number one" (by Carlos Felipe on 2011-11-07 12:35:55 GMT from Brazil)
Mark Shuttleworth wants act now like Steve Jobs, he doesn't want to hear the community, wants to take us the freedom [...] Clem, in turn, is wiser, thinks in the users, talks with them, doesn't hide. This policy of CanonicaL does not please me, so I'm changing.
Sorry bad english.
13 • LinuxMint #1 (by Podsgrove on 2011-11-07 12:46:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
I was going to make the point about adding the numbers of the Xubuntu, Kubuntu etc. together but was beaten to it. I would also agree that Mint LXDE is just Lubuntu coloured green. I wish some clever group of developers would take over maintaining good old Gnome 2 then we could have an official Ubuntu flavour called Gubuntu perhaps.
14 • Mint #1 (by dragonmouth on 2011-11-07 13:04:17 GMT from United States)
Here we go again! All the Ubuntu faithful are up in arms over some other distro taking over the #1 spot which they feel belongs in perpetuity to THEIR distro. Couple of years ago the object of their ire was PCLinuxOS. I well remember the strident comments posted by the faithful on this forum. How dare PCLOS have higher hits counts than UBUNTU?! The counts for PCLOS must be faked, gamed or otherwise falsified! PCLOS can't hold a candle to Ubuntu, yada, yada, yada!
Ubuntu fans, get over it! You sound like the Apple crowd, whatever comes from St. Mark and Canonical is the greatest thing since sliced bread and everything else sux. Hit counts and download counts are just that, numbers. They are not a matter of life and death. Unless, of course, you are Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical, trying to take over the part of PC universe not already owned by M$.
15 • Unity: Ubuntu\'s Waterloo, Think Different ;) (by dopher on 2011-11-07 13:22:04 GMT from Belgium)
This weekend i configured my wife's new Imac. Had to import the data, from her windows pc. Took me a whole weekend to get it more or less perfect. Meanwhile i tried to learn the interface and functionality, to give her some support with it. I just loved it. OSX is great.
Now, back to my pc. Today i tried unity. After spending a whole weekend with the mac, you notice the unity interface has inherent some stuff from OSX. Which is NOT a bad thing, that is, if the good stuff get's copied. I mean, stuff get's copied all the time. Windows does it, mac does it, and it happens in the several WM's on linux.
My experience with Unity has been good. I like it. It's clean, it looks good and it works good, once you learn how to use it. And i only have been using it for a couple of hours. In my opinion Ubuntu has made the right decision to go for Unity.
Ofcourse there are a lot of bugs to get rid of, and they have to be fixed for the final release. Remember 11.10 is NOT an LTS release, which qualifies it for me as a beta. And for a beta it's pretty damn good. I think I am not alone when I say that ubuntu's last LTS release was absolutely great. 10.04 is/was a good looking userfriendly release. very professional even. I will put my money on this LTS release. Meanwhile i will use their beta. ;)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But don't be a parrot and use the bad reviews from others in forming your opinion. Just give it a fair chance. At the end most of us want a clean and stable platform (10.04 has been extremely stable for me) to run our apps while having a pleasant interface.
16 • Google trends (by Leo on 2011-11-07 13:28:26 GMT from United States)
Hi
A Linux trends comparison shows Mint linearly growing up until now, and Google decaying since 2007. Still Ubuntu is 3 times as popular today (as per google trends):
http://www.google.com/trends?q=linux+mint%2C+ubuntu+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
What I like of mint is the extra polish they add. The same as I like he polish Ubuntu adds on top of Debian. I think Mint is generating more enthusiast excitement, and Ubuntu is going more into the corporate world, which is a good thing IMHO.
17 • Re: #15 • Unity: Ubuntu's Waterloo, Think Different ;) (by Leo on 2011-11-07 13:48:57 GMT from United States)
Finally, somebody level headed :) I tend to agree. Unity is not the end of the word or anything. I have used Kubuntu for years. But I find myself more and more troubled with experiments like akonadi and nepomuk, and I really want a simple, beautiful desktop, such as webos, android, or even KDE Plasma (if there was a light version).
Unity is a step in that direction, and I applaud it. It also brings them closer to the phone and tablet, with one common interface, which I also consider great. We need to focus on the future, not the past. The future is lighter, leaner, cleaner, and Cloud oriented :)
18 • Beta (by Tourniquette on 2011-11-07 13:52:37 GMT from United States)
@15
I can sorta see your point, but even 10.04 glitched out and became less useable over time for most of the people I installed it for. At this point I've been recommending and installing CentOS, ZorinOS (for super noobs), and of course Mint. My own machine runs Fedora though, more my style ;)
@4
That Dedoimedo article is great, flipped the switch and turned me on to CentOS. To them, Gnome2 isn't going anywhere for a while.
19 • @12, Listen to who? (by Eddie on 2011-11-07 14:20:31 GMT from United States)
"he doesn't want to hear the community"
What community are you talking about? Your community? My community? There are enough users to go around. Mr. Shuttleworth is listening to a community, it's just not the one you are a member of. That is not bad for anyone especially Canonical . For too long a time distro developers only listened to a small number of the population. Linux is branching out to different areas thus becoming available and usable for everyone. While LinuxMint and Ubuntu are the two top holders on Distrowatch they cater to two different types of users, or if you prefer, two different types of communities. They are totally two different types of projects. How can that be bad? It's not. The basic core is the same as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider myself to be a member of any certain special community per say but a well rounded person who can and does receive benefits from all of these projects. There is no "walled garden" here so the reference to Steve Jobs does not fit and out freedom is not in danger.
20 • Re: 12. Clem is wiser? (by LinuXFroG on 2011-11-07 14:58:00 GMT from United States)
I don't think he is. He USED to be. Until he stepped on toes when it came to KMint. Alot of you will know what I mean. Some will not.
Enough said......
LF
21 • KDE 7.3 (by Blue Knight on 2011-11-07 15:01:34 GMT from France)
> Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.11 - the first distro coming with the new KDE 4.7.3
Err, I run Mageia Cauldron and I have KDE 4.7.3 since several days already... ;-)
22 • Ubuntu vs Mint (by SB on 2011-11-07 15:18:41 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu has been seeing the negative feedback since going to Unity and continues to ignore it. They need to get back to remembering who their customers are and not just what they think everyone else wants. Until then they will continue to drop in the rankings and in the hearts and minds of users.
23 • Mint #1 (by Rajamohan on 2011-11-07 15:32:03 GMT from India)
Its nice to see competitions, but it should be constructive. For me Ubuntu 11.10 with gnome3.2 is working great, of course it need a little tweak like add the min, max, close button and change the theme to ambiance to match the default Ubuntu theme.
Gnome 3 is integrated perfectly and it make the system productive. The only issue I face is switching window when working with multiple window open, previously I used to do with mouse Now I need to make use of ctrl + tab, another issue is default to suspend, for shutdown I need to press alt key.
Other than that I feel ubuntu 11.10 modern with latest kernel and stable, I feel Mint with gnome 3 with MGSE will be serve more user.
24 • Ubuntu (by rubyplusplus on 2011-11-07 15:40:05 GMT from United States)
I haven't tried Mint in quite a while, however it is a solid distribution and it meets the needs of its users very well. I've been using ubuntu for a long time now but I am a bit torn as to my distro future. I'm not a huge fan of unity and gnome-shell works pretty well after a bit of tweaking, but I really think that KDE is likely where I'll end up. I tried it for a short while, then tried gnome-shell, thought it was pretty neat, but it really doesn't stay out of the way of my workflow the way KDE does.
So, do I wait a few (9) days and give openSUSE KDE a shot, or do I just install Kubuntu and move on with my life? It's a toss up.
25 • Mint Gnome Shell Extensions (by silent on 2011-11-07 15:50:15 GMT from France)
MGSE is a really good idea, sounds like 'GS for humans'. I hope that it will be soon available also in other distros.
26 • Fedora coming out tomorrow (by Jesse on 2011-11-07 16:09:23 GMT from Canada)
Tomorrow we're going to see the release of Fedora 16 and, as usual, I plan to do a "first look" review of the cutting edge distro. My question to everyone here is: Would you prefer to see a review of the GNOME edition of Fedora or the KDE edition?
Please let me know which you'd rather see covered by e-mailing me (no sense in cluttering up the comments area).
27 • "Ubuntu has finally been dethroned" (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:32:40 GMT from Romania)
"Ubuntu has finally been dethroned" - that statement is not really correct, I still remember that in 2007, PCLinuxOS was rank one for months (half a year I think). By the way, PCLinuxOS 2007 was probably the best distribution ever.
28 • fedora review (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:36:51 GMT from Romania)
Hello, Jesse, I suggest a Gnome review, mostly because of Gnome 3, the KDE side is pretty uneventful right now, stability is boring :)
29 • Linux Mint the new #1? (by PDR60 on 2011-11-07 16:38:03 GMT from United States)
I s it just me or is all this buzz about Ububtu vs the world really kind of silly. All the distros involved in this "controversy" are all derivatives of the same main source in Debian. I used to distro jump and always ended up coming back to the source, Debian. Why not just run the real thing? I’ve had the same install of debian testing going for a couple of years now. The only time it really gets reloaded is with a new workstation hardware build. I have a kubuntu install running for the wife and all the main programs are the same between the two. The point being I don’t ever have to reload mine as the rolling updates take care of that. My present “wheezy” load started out its life as a “lenny” install and has never missed a beat by just using the testing repos. I actually had to reload her install this time as her Kubuntu 11.04 just quit during the “upgrade” process (didn’t lose any data with separate /home). She is seriously thinking about having me reload her to Debian testing. Anyway, it just seems like the kids are all fighting over who is loved the most and it really is just kind of pointless.
30 • openSUSE review (by ix on 2011-11-07 16:38:57 GMT from Romania)
Sorry for the triple post, but I just thought that the openSUSE review should be done from the KDE side, so it's probably a good idea to do the Fedora review on the Gnome side.
31 • @ 26 (by itsme on 2011-11-07 16:42:17 GMT from Germany)
I am interested in gnome, because am familar with kde, since it it did change a longer time ago. Gnome3 and Unity try out new ways. It has to get bad till it gets better. Kde4 for example is in some ways better now than kde3. I hope it catches up in terms of stability. At least that was my expierience. Perhaps it was a distrospecific issue, who knows. Am i offtopic. Yes. Well. Ahem.
32 • @17, Unity as future (by TobiSGD on 2011-11-07 17:04:54 GMT from Germany)
"It also brings them closer to the phone and tablet, with one common interface, which I also consider great. We need to focus on the future, not the past."
I totally disagree. If the future is to run an UI designed for phones, tablets and netbooks on my 22 inch monitor plugged into my workstation then the future will happen without me (and it seems many other people). A good UI should support the user to get his work done, that means it should be able to be easily adapted to the users way of doing the work. This is more easily done with a classical desktop (besides that Unity isn't really configurable). Most of the users simply don't do their work with a phone, they use their desktop machines.
33 • New Number 1 in 2007: PCLinuxOS (by cba on 2011-11-07 17:18:54 GMT from Germany)
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070917#editorial
"PCLinuxOS - the new Number One distribution
As many of you noticed, PCLinuxOS has overtaken Ubuntu in our Page Hit Ranking statistics and is currently occupying the top spot on the default 6-month view for the first time. (...)"
34 • Would you prefer to see a review of the GNOME edition of Fedora or the KDE editi (by How-old! on 2011-11-07 17:40:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you d/l the Gnome version, Fedora usually has an authorised version of Xfce listed in the repo, so this would be a very good combo test because Xfce, by concept, is intended as a 'lightweight' desktop. So, just how much is it dragged down by being an adjunct to the host desktop?
35 • @26 (by pera on 2011-11-07 18:05:50 GMT from Serbia)
It would be very interesting to see comparative review,gnome3 vs kde4 on fedora 16,like you did with ubuntu vs kubuntu.
36 • Ubuntu (by Douglas E Knapp on 2011-11-07 18:17:20 GMT from Germany)
I keep reading all this stuff about how Ubuntu has made a mistake with Unity but no one is talking about how it will bridge the gap between desktop and smart phones or other little gadgets. I have to say that I think they are correct about the gadgets taking over from the desktop. I see it at work everyday. Many people do all their internet work on their smart phones. I think he has made a move with real foresight.
On the other side, they don't seem to learn. I mean look at the transition that took place with KDE and Kubuntu. It basically killed Kubuntu. I am one of the few to stick with Kubuntu and I think at this point (11.10) that KDE has come into its own. I love the new system and for the first time ever have had no big bug problems with it. It is powerful, flexable and very easy to use. (take a look at that pic SuperX, that is what my Kubuntu looks like too. You do need to learn a bit to bring out the power of KDE 4 but it is worth it!
It was said that the transition to KDE4 would have been better if Conical had kept KDE 3 for a year longer than they did and just kept KDE 4 as an alt. I think this thinking is correct and it should have been used with the transition from Gnome 2 to 3 and even more so with Unity! If Conical lives through this, I think we will find in 5 years that they did the right thing.
For the average user the Desktop is close to dead. Desktops will continue to rule for work and art but daily users will soon be almost all only on their Smart Phones.
I fear the day that I MUST use a non-free OS on my smart phone. I love open source and the freedom and ad free nature of it. I hate the pushy, BUY ME, that you get on other systems. Long live open source!
37 • Fedora review (by electro on 2011-11-07 18:24:33 GMT from United States)
Jesse, I would like to see Fedora reviewed with the Gnome 3 desktop. I am familiar with and generally like KDE (though it is too much of a good things sometimes). But for netbook use or even laptop use KDE is a bit much. Fedora's recent RC looks and works well on my laptop though I think Unbuntu w/Unity might be better on the netbook.
I generally have used KDE on desktops and Gnome on older machines or laptops. So figuring out which of the new desktops for less capable devices would be beneficial I think.
Of course I like LXDE it just never quite seems to be everything I need.
The one I really like is E17. Boy I wish Canonical had thrown their resources behind it for the new Ubuntu desktop.
38 • Unity/Mint (by Scott on 2011-11-07 18:38:40 GMT from United States)
The only place I am still distro hopping, is on netbooks. I have a Celeron M EEE that is still running a dual boot of UNR and Easy Peasy (works good but old) because UNR does not work quite right with this hardware. Unity will not run (needs Atom) but Bodhi may replace the Easy Peasy on this netbook. What I need is a Mint derivative that can run on this hardware and fly with Atom based netbooks. I would also use this on other older hardware that I have connected to TVs and install XBMC or something to run the media.
39 • @29 True, Debian is great. (by Eddie on 2011-11-07 20:28:06 GMT from United States)
I don't believe that there is a better base to build off of than Debian. Would I use Debian as a full time distro? No. It's not the quality issue. It's not the rolling release issue.( I don't know if you would call them a rolling release. I don't believe they are, which is fine because I don't think much of the rolling release system.) I just believe they are more tuned to development then deployment. I do think they are right where they want or need to be. As far as I'm concerned they are at the top of the pecking order.
@22, I've seen the opposite effect Steve. People are talking like Ubuntu was the only distro that had any users and that is just not true. I used several other distros before I even knew what Ubuntu was. I like their direction. Some don't like Unity but many do. The Ubuntu developers are not making a mistake in my opinion. There is too much choice out there for people to get so worked up about this. There is LinuxMint, Fedora, openSuse, Mandriva, and the list goes on and on and on. What is the purpose of being confrontational? There is none.
40 • Robert Storey's opinion (by Walter on 2011-11-07 20:36:05 GMT from Canada)
Three cheers for Robert!
I claim to be a closet distroholic, checking out many of the same ones Robert did, in a different order, and also wound up using Ubuntu for many years. Like Robert, I'm not keen on how Canonical has gone about its business. For now, Linux Mint 11 (the Ubuntu done right version) is my distro of choice, while greatly anticipating the release of Mint 12. I will, however, keep an eye out for the next distro that'll be better than sliced bread. Maybe it'll be Fuduntu 14.12 that I'm grabbing as I type. :)
41 • @24 regd KDE distro of choice (by kvv on 2011-11-07 20:37:00 GMT from United States)
Given that you are used to KDE, I would highly recommend Kubuntu. They have integrated KDE very well, while keeping the look and feel stock. In addition, they have a low fat settings package, which makes the experience lighter if you so prefer.
KDE 4.7 is a stellar release, and I would recommend you to check it out anyway.
42 • @26 Emails instead of commenting... (by CliffyB on 2011-11-07 20:37:44 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
43 • @24 (by kvv on 2011-11-07 20:49:05 GMT from United States)
Oops..
Given that you are used to Ubuntu*
44 • @ 41 & 43 (by rubyplusplus on 2011-11-07 21:32:28 GMT from United States)
Noted! I definitely don't like working remotely (NX) with a different interface than I can locally. This takes gnome-shell out of the picture, but unity 2d works on both, as does KDE.
45 • Unity (by Retro Grade on 2011-11-07 22:05:55 GMT from United States)
Mark Shuttleworth recently tried to pass off discontent over Unity onto "power users" even though he admits himself that Unity isn't a good fit for even himself. He created Unity as a kind of least common denominator: a way to make Linux appeal to everyone possible, not as a way to make computers fun or more fulfilling. This, I think, is what people are reacting to.
#1: People don't like being labeled. It's patronizing and frankly a little arrogant.
#2: Just because people like the mouse usage to be efficient doesn't necessarily make them power users.
#3: Developers aren't trying to save the world of computers with Linux. They're doing what they do because they ENJOY it. If they don't, then it's a safe bet that their users aren't going to enjoy it either.
46 • Clem is on the correct path (by Joe Linuc on 2011-11-07 22:07:29 GMT from United States)
Clem correctly states the problem with both Gnome 3 and Shuttleworth's Exodus (Unity). He says, "It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)
It doesn’t do multi-tasking well (you can’t see opened windows, system tray icons, etc..)"
See: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
Of the the two, I find Gnome 3 to be more intuitive and less confusing than Shuttleworth's Exodus. One thing I absolute detest is the retched "wiper" on the left hand side of Exodus. At least the favorites launcher in Gnome 3 doesn't annoyingly keep moving in and out. Another issue with Exodus is the menus in the top bar that change with the application in focus. This is a Macintosh idea that was implemented years ago. I used Macs for many years in the school system and enjoyed them very much. However the Exodus implementation is not quite correct. For example in Firefox, instead of the menus showing, the name of the web page that is in focus shows, This is totally stupid and moronic, because you are already looking at that page in the first place.
In short Exodus provides an unnecessarily complex, confusing, and clumsy work environment. Gnome 3 is somewhat better, but still falls very short because you cannot see at a glance what tasks you have running. And it's really tough to switch between two different running applications.
Clem's Linux Mint MGSE extension will hopefully provide a reasonable solution. It has a more traditional menu set up, and continues to allow users to easily switch between and manage the tasks they have open.
47 • Unity, NOT SO BAD LIKE THAT (by Houge_Langley on 2011-11-07 22:09:39 GMT from United States)
Err, Unity NOT SO BAD like Robert said.
in some places, Unity maybe slow down and more bugs than before using gnome desktop environment. BUT, everything could not be great at first we know. Maybe, we should calm down and give Unity more time to solve the problems.
48 • Disunity (by Bill on 2011-11-07 22:10:17 GMT from United States)
I don't own an Ipad or Ipod or Blackberry or anything like that. I just have a desktop computer that I want to use both for business and fun. So when I discovered Ubuntu a little over a year ago, I was in hog heaven. And since I like to tweak things, finding compiz and fusion and emerald gave me great fun. I continued to upgrade from 8.04 to 9.10 up to 10.10 until Unity was released. Thank goodness for Distrowatch and my abilty to dual boot on 3 hard drives because I was able to test about 50 distros. The problem I have with Unity and Gnome 3 is that programs used to take 2 clicks to find and run, now take 4 or 5 clicks. I cannot design my desktop to my liking. I cannot even hide the dock. I am like a cattle being forced to move in a groove which I hate. Therefore, I too have retired Ubuntu w/Uinty, Fedora w/Gnome3 and have migrated to Zorin 5 (taking out their desktop WM and designing my own, and I also play with Mint just in case. I will not return to Ubuntu unless they give us choices again. I know it really doesn't matter to Ubuntu what I do, but it matters to me.
49 • @4 - The present of GNOME 2 (by Microlinux on 2011-11-07 22:11:10 GMT from France)
Hello everybody, and hello Caraibes a.k.a Martin,
I've recently given Unity a spin on Ubuntu 11.10, worked for it for a few days. I like it, though there are still some bugs that prevent me from using it on a production PC or install it to my clients. Currently I'm happy with 10.04 LTS, which provides all I need. I guess I'll gladly try out 12.04 once it comes out.
I have written some scripts for a personalized install of Ubuntu 10.04, to turn it into a full-blown desktop on steroids. Check it out if you're curious :
$ svn co svn://svn.tuxfamily.org/svnroot/microlinux/ubuntu
(Work in progress, might eat your hamster...)
50 • Classical or new ideas ? (by alcid on 2011-11-07 23:18:17 GMT from France)
When Ubuntu released 11.04 with Unity, I disliked it. I didn't want Gnome3 with Fedora either. So i tried Fedora spins : LXDE and XFCE. But they were rather slow on my notebook. So i came back to Ubuntu 11.10 and i had a VERY good surprise : There were two versions of Unity 2D and 3D and they worked well on my laptop ! I got used to it fast. And i can add or remove icons on the unity bar. And il's very easy to switch applications with Unity.
So where is the problem ? Give it a try before criticizing ! And good work to Ubuntu !
51 • Mint (by astrotrek on 2011-11-07 23:53:44 GMT from United States)
WOW! Mint is now #1. I have been use Ubuntu for years until Unity started with Ubuntu 11.04/11.10. I switched back to Window$ 7 but I heard Linux Mint 12 with gnome 3 will be released this month so I can't wait to see what Mint 12 looks like. I am very fond of Gnome!
52 • Unity, Ubuntu and Canonical (by Mandrivian on 2011-11-08 00:46:25 GMT from United States)
Just in case.
Canonical sells Ubuntu tablets in South Africa.
Together with Dell they were going to China and start selling Ubuntu computers there.
53 • Mint now #1 - maybe (by SlaxFan on 2011-11-08 01:03:27 GMT from United States)
Whether or not Mint is number 1 among those of us who try new distros regularly, I note that I have difficulty gaining Linux converts at work. People seem to prefer Mint to my other favorite distros (PC Linux OS, Sabayon, Debian, etc.). Mint does many things right.
54 • @26, KDE review of Fedora, please (by Mikademus on 2011-11-08 01:04:40 GMT from Sweden)
KDE on Fedora has always been the child left to it self while its Gnome brother got most of the attention, and the KDE experience has always felt somewhat less well-integrated, both in terms of polish and software, which has been frustrating. In this version they seem to imply that KDE in on equal footing with Gnome, which sounds interesting and should be explored. So I would like to request a KDE review, please.
55 • Starting to agree with Mr. Storey (by James Jones on 2011-11-08 02:09:10 GMT from United States)
Case in point: if you try a Wacom graphics tablet with Oneiric, it won't work. It will act as if you've clicked when you haven't; it will refuse to notice when you release a mouse/pen button; mouse/pen motion will be jerky. My wife was already perturbed at being forced away from GNOME 2.x (and my sister, niece, and various friends who I've set up with Ubuntu are/will be as well), but she does a lot of graphics, and Wacom functionality is VERY important to her.
According to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11435375#post11435375, the cause of the problem, Launchpad bug #863154, has been known for a week--a call to xf86PostButtonEvent() should have been a call to xf86PostButtonEventP()--but the fix has yet to make it into the repositories.
56 • perfect (by noone on 2011-11-08 02:15:53 GMT from Brazil)
"DistroWatch.com donation is Trinity Desktop Environment, while the October 2011 DistroWatch.com donation goes to LibreCAD."
Perfect choice.
57 • http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2011/14/ (by 123 on 2011-11-08 03:25:49 GMT from United States)
Way to go DistroWatch!
Even the index on Debian's main site (11/07/2011@22:22PM) does not list the current issue.
After clicking on your front page link, I got November's issue.
I tried clicking on the upper trees of the page and could not find any way to read it,
besides using the DistroWatch link.
Talk about getting news first! Even before Debian releases it!
Thanks DistroWatch!
58 • disunity (by bob mccarty on 2011-11-08 04:43:46 GMT from United States)
enjoyed you article. your path was similar to mine. first nix experience was freebsd in 1998. thought is was cool until i needed a driver for just about any devices that one might want to attach to my computer including dial up modems. then i found slackware and was hooked until ubuntu came along. ubuntu upgrades started getting buggy and found relief with librenet which was pretty cool until it was discontinued. vector linux worked for me for about 4 year until i tried linux mint and was hooked because the repositories were so much larger and it was so easy to install any thing using synaptic. being too stupid to ever successfully compile and install a source package using slackware and tired of all of the smug rudeness in the slackware user community, linux mint was a welcome relief. now i use mint xfce, puppy lucid pup, and antix. i have been experimenting with bodhi and will probably use it as the default on my laptop. salix ratpoison was interesting. the more i experiment, the more i seem to be drifting toward light weight distros and bodhi has the perfect balance for me.
59 • @26 (by Pumpino on 2011-11-08 05:34:05 GMT from Australia)
Jesse, you could always review Fedora 16 running XFCE. I've just made the switch from KDE to XFCE in both Fedora and Arch, and it's actually quite functional. It's not quite as good as Gnome 2, but it's not far from it.
60 • @6 flawed reasoning (by Vic on 2011-11-08 06:04:49 GMT from Canada)
Though I don't consider it entirely accurate to base Mint's combined ranking under one listing against Ubuntu's fragmented listings, it is even more flawed to consider combining the totals of all the Ubuntu flavors against Mint's one listing. Quite simply because one individual could easily visit each of the Ubuntu family pages and generate a hit for each visit. Where as there is only one option for Mint, hence there is only one possible page hit per individual. Really no matter how one looks at it, it's much like comparing apples to oranges the way in which the information is presented.
61 • @26, Fedora 16 Review (by Stan on 2011-11-08 07:00:37 GMT from United States)
As a Fedora KDE fan myself (with XFCE as my second choice), I'm going to have to say that GNOME is the better choice for the review. GNOME is now at 3.2 and thus past the dreaded .0 release, and Fedora, having a lot of the GNOME devs (via Red Hat), is the preeminent GNOME distribution, especially now that Ubuntu has gone its own way. A review of F16 GNOME would thus shed light on both your thoughts on Fedora 16 and on GNOME 3.2.
62 • Switching distros. (by M on 2011-11-08 11:12:29 GMT from Australia)
Average length of time on a distro ~ 1 month for 8 years.
Arch coming up to 3.
Say no more.
63 • f16 review (by Antony on 2011-11-08 11:20:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Have to go with Stan's good reasoning (61) on this.
I am more of a KDE person as well. While it would be nice to see an f16 Gnome/KDE comparison, if it has to be one or the other, then I think for fedora the review ought to be Gnome.
Thanks.
64 • systemd and Gentoo (by disi on 2011-11-08 11:25:49 GMT from Germany)
Just the link to the bug report is probably not so helpful.
Here is the official project website:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/systemd/index.xml
Official installation guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/systemd/systemd-install-guide.xml
Official WIKI page:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
Most scripts should work out of the box and some need to be manually migrated to systemd...
p.s. yes, Gentoo has finally an official wiki page :)
65 • Disunity; to all distrohoppers for years - one possible solution... (by Randy Andy on 2011-11-08 11:26:20 GMT from United States)
Do you really believe that the perfect distro exist?
If it exist for you now, would it be perfect in the future too?
Let's take the author of this funny article as an example that it would not, cause the strategy of distros could change as your needs too, over the time.
I found the solution for this misery in building my own "distribution" (Linux installation) which fit to my needs.
If i see a nice feature in any other distro I'm intereseted in, i build it also into my system.
That's not that problem, if you use the power of the source code. This makes you independent from any repository or package format.
That's one big advantage of source based distributions, but most of them are very uncomfortable and hard to maintain.
The easiest and most comfortable source based distro for me, is gentoo.
Since i know how to use it, my endless search ended here. No need for distrohopping anymore. It's worth every extra hour to study and to use cause the compiling.
Precisely Gentoo is no distro, it's a Framework to build your own.
Gentoo is all about choice.
Best regards, Andy.
66 • #60 (#6) (by zykoda on 2011-11-08 11:43:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
But so combining *buntus gives an upper estimate!
67 • Disunity - Opinion (by Robert Storey) (by randy on 2011-11-08 11:58:46 GMT from United States)
Like you i like to try a lot of different distros, but i find the best way to do that is through a VM VirtualBox. I find this is an excellent way to test out these distros and to see what might appeal to me as a preference. I have tested a lot of models like Ubuntu, which i do not like, but love Mint which is a great improvement on Ubuntu and now number one on the list. I have used Mepis, PCLinuxOS, OpenSUSE, Fedora, RedHat, Debian, Slackware, Sabayon, Puppy, Mandriva, Xandros, Linspire, GEOS, Peppermint, PinguyOS, Zorin, Ultimate, Tiny Core, Knoppix, Unity, ClearOS, DEFT, Frugalware, SuperOS, antiX, WattOS, DreamLinux, ZevenOS, TinyMe, and probably many more that i have managed to forget and overlook. I did not mention that i have also use numerous Unix variants as well as the BSD units too. Ouside the Linux arena, i have tested and used just about everything you can imagine from DOS 1.0 on up. I miss the versatility and uniqueness of OS/2 or now available as eComstation. The one thing though that Linux has over most any other OS i have tried is the ability to recognize and be aware of most Hardware systems and able to boot and run and then in most cases install without much issue. Even Windows has hardware hiccups and drivers that are omitted that you need CD's and maybe access to the internet to find the right driver to fit the device. Still every time i see a new or different DISTRO i download it and put it to the test without having to install it live and making a CD/DVD to boot the system. Well, without getting involved in side chit chat aside from the subject at hand i will call this a written comment and completed here.
Randy
68 • RE: Disunity (by Marti on 2011-11-08 13:05:44 GMT from United States)
I have been completely content running a very minimally customized Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. My Verizon DSL may infrequently be down, but I have only had 1 OS mishap in 4+ years; I did start with 7.10. With the impending demise of my familiar Gnome, I decided some weeks back to install LXDE and use that session every time I login. I like the CLEAN desktop and file menus...Mmmm, file menus.....
Does anyone have any clue if upgrading (yes, upgrading) to 12.04 will hamper alt enviros (KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc.) from working?
Thanks to everyone for reading and thanks to Distrowatch for a great site.
69 • Hey, Kiki ! (by Caraibes on 2011-11-08 17:42:19 GMT from Dominican Republic)
While I am having fun running Firefox 8 on Scientific Linux 6... I might setup a VirtualBox with Lucid, just to play with you script !!!
70 • Fedora 16 review (de) (by zykoda on 2011-11-08 17:45:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
For those that don't understand German
http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/Die-Neuerungen-von-Fedora-16-1372288.html
has an english version selectable from within.
71 • @60 Mint's combined ranking (by fox on 2011-11-08 18:05:03 GMT from Canada)
I see your point Vic, and I do agree that it is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. But there is an alternative logic to yours that should also be considered. If one is interested in trying both regular Mint Gnome and Mint LMDE, for example, it is at least as likely that one will do so on separate occasions, which would generate two page hits instead of one. In my case, I tried Mint gnome, Mint xfce, Mint fluxbox and Mint LMDE and Mint xfce LMDE, all on separate occasions generating 5 page hits. At any rate, I think that most people agree that DistroWatch hit rankings do not necessarily reflect the popularity of a distro.
72 • @71 Even more important... (by Vic on 2011-11-08 19:22:57 GMT from Canada)
As far as I'm concerned the popularity of individual projects is far less important than the growing popularity of FOSS in general as viable alternatives to using the mainstream closed platforms. I personally enjoy using Linux on my PCs, and the large selection of options available to choose from is a boon. I may not be a fan of the direction some distros have taken but there is so much out there to choose from that I generally always find something to suit my needs.
73 • dis-unity (by walter_j on 2011-11-08 21:59:48 GMT from Canada)
I'm trying distros to find a replacement for 10.10, and a may have found few i may live with - reluctantly - including kubuntu and a lxde distro. It's always such a relief to boot back int0 10.10 after trying other distros, so it's going to be a tough change I think.
The distro that aggravated me the most was opensuse 12.1 with gnome 3. I can't stand gnome 3. KDE has potential, but there's problems there too. Akondai and neoputk are more trouble then they're worth. Akondai has broken kontact I think. I can't get kontact running, and evolution looks hideous in KDE. KDE aps look good in gnome 3.28 though, so I wish KDE could improve the looks of gtk apps.
Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE.
74 • @73: Adversity fosters resistance (by Mikademus on 2011-11-09 00:20:19 GMT from Sweden)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
The common reaction to criticism is unfortunately not reflection, analysis and improvement or change, but defensiveness, resistance, denial, resentment, self-martyrdom and isolationism. It is visible in GNOME3 (the users are all wrong and we know better) as well as in KDE4 with akonadi/nepomuk (refusal to admit to the nepomuk issues and stubborn closing of bug tickets as wontfix to silence the criticism).
KDE has gone from strength to strength, but the 4.0 introduction debacle should have tought the developers what can happen when you mismanage your community and the nepomuk situation risks causing severe badwill. It is already generating plenty of bad word-of-mouth.
Yes, disabling nepomuk wrecks the functionality of Kontakt and mail indexing in Kmail, but perhaps this indicates too strong an ambition to centralise everything in KDE (strigi, akonadi, nepomuk, Kmail, Kontakt) where modularity and user choice might be better. Hopefully this will be resolved or some good alternatives will emerge.
75 • @73, 74 (by Stan on 2011-11-09 01:16:16 GMT from United States)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
Sadly, the trend of the tabletifacation of the desktop is not relegated to FOSS. In Mac OS X, Lion has one foot in the traditional desktop world and one in the tablet world, and Windows 8 is jumping in with both feet, relegating the traditional desktop to "legacy" status! Hopefully it will just be a fad, as people realize that traditional desktop metaphors work better than touch-based ones on the desktop, but currently, the trends are quite worrying, in both FOSS and proprietary desktop environments.
76 • systemd dependencies (by 123 on 2011-11-09 02:59:13 GMT from United States)
I think I'm the only one who does not like Systemd because of the Dbus dependency.
I run Debian Squeeze without Dbus, Hal, or any other system daemon, except init.
Since the upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze and my final straightening out of Inserv's mess,
which I may have probably caused by not letting apt fully install it originally, my boot time has easily dropped to half or less.
But Systemd promises this and more, but Dbus appears to be a necessary dependency.
Debian site seems to mention about going at least three cycles until they fully implement it.
As I said, I'm probably in the tiny minority about not wanting Dbus, since most desktop environments seem to already have it as a needed dependency.
Would anyone else rather not have Dbus running?
77 • @76, D-Bus and systemd (by Stan on 2011-11-09 05:01:29 GMT from United States)
D-Bus is a relatively light-weight IPC protocol, nothing more. When booted up to Debian, it takes merely 3 MB (two dbus-daemon processes and one dbus-launch process). On embedded or ancient systems, I could see that being a problem, but that's still only around 1% of memory on an old computer with only 256 MB, to say nothing of modern systems with gigabytes upon gigabytes of memory.
I can see there being valid complaints against systemd: harder to write units as they have to be in C rather than shell (though there is sysv-compatability mode), tightly tied to the Linux kernel, more complexity, etc... Dependence on D-Bus seems a rather petty reason not to like it though, IMHO.
78 • Bold moves. (by wizix on 2011-11-09 07:19:49 GMT from Germany)
my main two desktops are fedora and mint, but in my opinion what ubuntu is doing is very beneficial to desktop advancement, so what if their new environment isn't very catchy or there is a general distaste for it by the "old" users, if it is good it will stay and if its not it will probably be changed to something better as fast as it was first introduced. the fact that Canonical has good financial resources and large user base means that new and good ideas that might otherwise fail due to lack of resources have a chance to be widely tested and adopted. if I was to place a bet on which distro will set the new standard in linux user interface I would think that ubuntu would do it. although at present I personally don't like unity :)
79 • systemd is trying to do this? (by technosaurus on 2011-11-09 10:08:13 GMT from United States)
you _could_ use systemd... or you could add a function to your init script that allows you to fork processes and wait for them using
wait_pids(){
#use echo to make pids space separated (faster than piping through tr/sed)
PIDS=`echo $@`
#use substring manipulation to convert it to a test syntax
#works in ash,hush,bash but not dash/sh - use sed in dash/sh (it will be slower)
PIDS="[ -d /proc/"${PIDS// / ] || [ -d /proc/}" ]"
while (`eval $PIDS`) ; do usleep 1000;done
}
command args &
PIDS=$!
another_command args &
PIDS="$PIDS $!"
#do other stuff here if needed
wait_pids $PIDS
now just get your project management software out and figure out your predecessors and successors and you can get your boot down to <2 seconds
ok... you'll also have to clean up all the other legacy code too
80 • @68 lxde upgrade to 12.04 (by Jb on 2011-11-09 13:10:58 GMT from United States)
Does anyone have any clue if upgrading (yes, upgrading) to 12.04 will hamper alt enviros (KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc.) from working?
I'll make a prediction with respect to KDE,Xfce, and LXDE. From what I have seen, they are not doing anything nutty or revolutionary with these desktop environments. You probably won't see much of a difference, except that a couple of problems that irritate you might (or might not) get fixed. Now, if they come out with a kde5, that could be the same sort of drama as KDE4 or GNOME3
81 • RE: 73 (by Ron on 2011-11-09 21:08:54 GMT from United States)
"Maybe thats a shortfall in FOSS, where products like gnome 3 and unity wouldn't see the light of day if people had to pay for them. I don't understand how those devs can completely ignore the backlash against those DE."
Yes, paying really makes a difference - remember NEW COKE!
82 • Unity, G3 (by mike on 2011-11-09 22:03:13 GMT from United States)
Gnome 3 and Unity never cease to confuse me. There's a lot of people talking about the need to build a bridge between desktops and little gadgets by creating a common interface.
A big screen and a smartphone are two entirely different things. I tried GNOME 3 on my desktop and it was a joke. I couldn't even minimize/maximize windows. Unity was worse. I was back to good old XFCE in a heartbeat.
The whole unified UI thing was dreamed up by money-hungry corporations because they need to sell more products. Windows XP was great but the folks at M$ had to create the vista nightmare and the boring Windows 7 because you need to force people to keep giving you money. Linux is not like that.
83 • @80 - the reply to 68 (by Marti on 2011-11-09 22:39:04 GMT from United States)
Thank you very much. I will keep hope alive that after upgrading to 12.04 my LXDE will work! ;)
84 • Sabayon slowness (by Nick on 2011-11-09 23:45:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good review of Sabayon, I find everything works in this which is what you need. I don't find it particularly slow even if it is slower than Ubuntu, but then again i don't care if I have to wait a few more seconds for things to work better.
85 • Network Mangler (by Woody Oaks on 2011-11-10 01:13:21 GMT from United States)
Is anyone else having difficulty establishing a network connection with the Fedora 16_64 DVD installer?
86 • Fedora 16 (by dc on 2011-11-10 01:55:16 GMT from United States)
Re: 26
I also would prefer a comparison of the KDE and Gnome versions of Fedora. As someone else said, they supposedly put more effort into this KDE version (with good reason) than in previous versions and KDE 4 has developed into quite a nice environment with the release of KDE 4.7. It would be nice to compare that to the supposedly improved Gnome 3.2.
If a comparison is not possible than I would prefer a review of the KDE version.
87 • "73 • dis-unity (by walter_j" (by Verndog on 2011-11-10 03:27:01 GMT from United States)
Comment #73 is exactly my feelings. I have been using Ubuntu Lucid as my main Linux
OS. I do have Mint 9 installed, and use it as well.
I tried Ubuntu's Unity distros and find them not to my liking. Knowing the Lucids LTS will come to and end of its life cycle next year, I am in a quandry as to what to use next.
I have used KDE, but prefer Gnome....
then I just downloaded Fedora Verne (because of my namesake :) ). I was blown away it its speed. Tried Gnome3 in the early stages and it was awfull. Fedora on my USB was faster than anything to date on bootup.
Now its installed and not knowing RPM very well I am left with allowing its automatic updates to take over. I am very use to using Debian's 'apt-get', and 'Apptitude'.
The only thing that I couldn't find was how to reboot or shut the thing off. Found out its ALT+Suspend. There is suppose to be another way using the logout method, but that didn't work.
Ala and all, I am real plea
sed with Fedora 16 and Gnome3 interface. Time will tell.
88 • Re #82 & others (by imnotrich on 2011-11-10 03:32:56 GMT from Mexico)
Actually, I find Windows 7 exciting because you never know what will break next, where to find your files (since the introduction of these stupid "libraries" which obfuscate the actual file tree) and who know what window will pop up or close without being asked to. Network configuration is a joy too, because the operating system thinks you are stupid and tries to override your settings now and then.
People pay for inferior products all the time. Vista, WIndows 7, the new coke (at least until the old coke came back) because there are limited options available. This is what has allowed M$ to survive one boner after another.
The last version of Ubuntu to support my laptop was 9.04. Every Ubuntu release since then has been overwhelmingly...disappointingIy so. I was recently able to sort of get 11.10 running on my laptop briefly. To enable video forced me to disable 16 different boot parameters which also disabled my wireless card. Pointless.
Before I gave up though, I did experiment with unity for a few hours. Saw enough. Unity is not designed for laptops or desktops or even tablets or smart phones. The only thing Unity did well was cause repetitive strain injuries through additional keystrokes and mouse clicks that a NORMAL GUI wouldn't ask of you.
Sure, tablets, pads and smartphones are fun gadgets but they're mostly toys. Unless we have some odd human evolutionary bump simultaneously increasing visual acuity while at the same time making fingers smaller and more able to operate these silly small screens...the laptop and desktop will remain the only tools for serious work.
Developers sometimes forget that hardware support is not bloat, and usability/functionality (including UI's that make sense) should be a priority unless they only aspire to be a fringe hobby distro used only by geeks with thick glasses and a pocket protector. That seems to be the direction Ubuntu has chosen, and I wish them well but nobody who is paying attention should be surprised that as a result Ubuntu has been spanked by Mint.
89 • Pre-Loaded Distros (by Terry Lee on 2011-11-10 03:38:06 GMT from Australia)
As a long-time user of Linux (mainly Fedora and Ubuntu but now Mint-HATE UNITY) I have been fascinated by what various distros consider we should have on our desktops. Whilst many such as an office application or a graphics program are no-brainers, many of the others seem to me to be a way for the distro to plug its favourite programs or to get us users to have the same likes and dislikes as they do. WHY??
As many of the downloads now exceed a gb it seems that its time to take another look at this age-old system. Why are we not able to simply download the distribution and to add the other applications as we require them? Who choses what we download? How do they know my requirements? Even that other mob that use soft micros allow you the opportunity to chose the makeup of your system.Mahjong may be absolutely fascinating for some bit I"m sure the majority of us would not use it.
There are others in most distributions BUT the list of alternatives plus other more common applications that are kept in the repositories allow us to ONLY download what we want and to minimise the bloat on our computers.
How about it Mr Fedora, Mr Mint, Mr Ubuntu and others. We are not really that stupid.
90 • There's a thingamajig for that… (by Jeff Dickey on 2011-11-10 07:06:06 GMT from Singapore)
Apt point on Sabayon; they've been raising the number and quality of editions steadily over the years. But I thought part of the point of Linux since SLS was new and shiny was, "there's a DISTRO for that". From IBM mainframes to souvenir trinkets, from critical system automation to your television set, we've all been Linux users for years now.
The irony is, of course, that the more explosive growth there is in the overall ecosystem, the more stable the content, if not the order, of the Top 5 on DW has become. Many of us started out as distroholics, but too few of us have the time to keep the binge going.
91 • re: 87 Fedora 16 (by Michael J King on 2011-11-10 07:50:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I too ran Fedora Verne from a usb and as my thinkpad x40 couldn't use the full blown Gnome 3 I booted into the safe 2d mode, I was using 209mb of ram...pretty good, especially as This looked something like a normal gnome desktop(without the full gnome 2 functionality)
92 • re: 89 (by disi on 2011-11-10 08:20:50 GMT from Germany)
With great choice comes great responsibility...
You can do whatever you want with a Gentoo installation, but guess why it isn't as popular as distributions that make the choices for the user?
FreeBSD has a different approach. Give the user base system and let them handle/install all the applications as ports (X, desktop, servers, office etc.).
Gentoo goes a step further and lets users easily change parts of the base system as well (bootloader, kernel, systemlogger, init system etc.).
93 • Re: 87 Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS 3 years on desktop (by hobbitland on 2011-11-10 09:29:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS is not ending support next year. Not its until 2013-04 for desktop and 2015-04 on servers.
I am seriously itchimng to mv to Linux Minit 13 when it comes out. I have managed to make Ubutnu 11.10 useable by installing Gnome 3 classic (gnome-session-fallback, gnome-tweak-tools, gdm) and I actually rm the dis-unity desktop and lightdm. Ligthdm is so tied to dis-unity desktop at least in Ubuntu (ie ligthtdm breaks if dis-unity is rm ed). Ubuntu needs to make an official Gnome 3 spin called gubuntu.
I think we need same desktop on commerical desktops and home systems. Currently, RHEL 6.1, CentOS 6 and Scientific Linux 6.1 are using Gnome 2 so that environment is what I need to use. I don't see how dis-unity desktop can ever be used by RHEL so it will have to be Gnome 3 shell in the long term.
Meanwhile the next LTS will be Gnome 3 classic for a couple more years on either Ubutnu 12.04 LTS or Linux Mint 13 until RHEL 7 and Scientific Linux are released.
Non LTS distro only deserves to be installed in a VM for testing. Soon Ubuntu will lose crown to Linux Mint on Distrowatch 12 month time scale. I think 12 months is the fair time period to look at rankings.
94 • Solaris 11 (by Bards on 2011-11-10 10:27:41 GMT from Australia)
Should solaris 11 be listed here ? It is not open-source any more and IMHO, is not deserved of the free publicity !
Do new versions of Windows get a mention ?
8-)
95 • UI (by mythdc on 2011-11-10 16:25:10 GMT from United States)
I dist-upgraded and gave unity a fair shot. In the end I discovered it wasn't for me, im quite ok with that. The Ubuntu focus has always been inovation and welcoming new users. Not new to computers but new to Linux. What I have come to learn is that I am no longer a new user (also I think I have ADD as the more eye-candy my DE has the less work I get done). I don't have any problem with Unity nor with Gnome 3 they just aren't for me. But this has made me love Linux more. I backed up and installed Sabayon 5.4 (wanted to test the upgrade path which worked execellent BTW) this is how I realized Gnome 3 is not for me either. Once again the beauty of Linux shines through. With Mac OS or Windows, you don't like the UI or DE too bad! For the most part instead we still have many options such as install another WM/UI or DE and change the session also you can reinstall a different spin Kubuntu, Xubuntu or what have you. You could also download the core distro in this case Sabayon spinbase, or Ubuntu mini, Debian core and pick whatever setup you want. Additionally there are many nitch distros that might fullfill your needs.
Good Luck.
96 • Solaris 11 (by Jesse on 2011-11-10 17:01:00 GMT from Canada)
>> "Should solaris 11 be listed here ? It is not open-source any more"
Why do you think Solaris is not open source anymore? The GPLed bits are available for download here: http://oss.oracle.com/systems-opensourcecode/
Oracle has stated the rest of the operating system will soon be available for download under the CDDL.
97 • Toys (by Ron on 2011-11-10 23:45:00 GMT from United States)
"Sure, tablets, pads and smartphones are fun gadgets but they're mostly toys. Unless we have some odd human evolutionary bump simultaneously increasing visual acuity while at the same time making fingers smaller and more able to operate these silly small screens..the laptop and desktop will remain the only tools for serious work. "
Yes, toys, mostly. Lots of people seem to love those mobiles, almost to the point of being rude. I had a friend visit the wife and me a few days ago and she started playing with the I-phone. It rang and then she started, (it rings every 10 minutes or so), and she began playing on and on and us just sitting there wondering about her visit.
Drivers using it all over the road, waiting at a green traffic light to play with the gadget. Oh, yes ran right through a stop sign in front of me as I could see the woman yapping away on the gadget. I sometimes hear people walking alone in public talking loudly ( they almost always do yell on cell phones - I guess they think it puts out more power that way). The first impression is that the person is a mental before I see the phone appear, then the second impression is that the person really is a mental.
98 • Re: Disunity (by Shahryar on 2011-11-11 07:49:01 GMT from Pakistan)
Excellent article. Ilearned Linux with Slackware, tried Redhat 6.0 switched to Debian3.0, then Ubuntu. Ubuntu 5.04 was the smoothest, cleanest, most comfortable Linux experience ever. But then bloatware, or bling or Winitis (wanna be fat, dumb and stupid like Windows) happened. By the time Ubuntu 10.04 came along, I was recommending Mint to first time users. For myself, I switched to Arch Linux. The machines which crawled with Lubuntu 8.04 are flying with Arch+LXDE. Machines that used to take over one minute to boot now take just under 40 seconds. Its not for newbies, but its excellent wiki and forums take the guesswork and trial and error out of your first install. It, in my opinion is the ideal tinkerer distro between Gentoo and Slackware.
Speed, simplicity, reliability, these are qualities for long term distro success.
99 • Solaris 11 (by Bards on 2011-11-11 10:05:45 GMT from Australia)
>>Why do you think Solaris is not open source anymore? The GPLed bits are available for download here: http://oss.oracle.com/systems-opensourcecode/
>>Oracle has stated the rest of the operating system will soon be available for download under the CDDL.
You are joking right, Oracle may have *said* something, but we'll wait and see if they make good on their statement.
So we can expect to see announcements about these in the future;
* VMS
* HP-UX
* AIX
* Windows
?????
100 • Solaris 11 (by mechanic on 2011-11-11 12:58:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
If anyone is tired of the same old distros with minor changes from version to version, try Solaris 11 ! It's a whole new ball-game in terms of difficulty of managing the system. My trial install totally destroyed the Grub installer and left me with a dead machine, thankfully restoring Grub to another system on another partition enabled trials to continue...but with no decent forums for support and impenetrable docs, not to mention unusual file systems etc., it's a real puzzle to get working nicely. On the upside it looks nice and apparently it's secure. Anyone who finds Ubuntu too easy to work with should give it a try!
101 • Disunity (by Sayth on 2011-11-11 13:03:27 GMT from Australia)
Why Why Why do i always have to be the odd one out really come on guys and girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For years I have not like Ubuntu always preferred Fedora and I would sometimes use Vectorlinux, ubuntu never seemed complete. Now when everyone else is Jumping off a cliff about Ubuntu I like it Nay I love it.
Unity on a laptop is a friggin awesome distro, wireless connections(including broadcom) automatically detected, you get a desktop that stays out of your way and maximises your display, has long battery life in comparison to the other distro's I recently tested as well.
Sure this release is at 85-90% but it has me revved up for the next LTS release its gonna kill. When people actually grasp lenses and the dash it will be another story.
I will admit there is only one sticking point whilst Ubuntu is going to be great for mobile devices laptops, netbooks & u-Pad ???? I do concede that it doesn't translate as well to a desktop PC.
However this will likely also be the last PC I ever have if it dies I will simply get another laptop.
102 • RE: 101 (by Landor on 2011-11-11 18:37:10 GMT from Canada)
I figure it's great for any system, in all truth.
I've said this before, and will again, the biggest point is that menus are one of the biggest problems on the desktop. The add in the slab menus too, and it gets crazy. Having to deal with all the levels of a menu is just unproductive, very much so.
What makes me wonder in that regard is this community are the people who love the keyboard. I've said this and it's true, the GNOME and Unity shells have the potential to be a power user's dream. Anyone coming from another operating system to this one has to be considered, even of the smallest scale, a power user. Why? Because they install operating systems, take control of their system. Many love keyboard shortcuts, so why couldn't they appreciate a simple interface that drives them to that end?
What some distribution should do is duplicate the efforts of CrunchBang and ArchBang by putting a reference to the shortcuts for the shells on the desktop, via conky, or even a background if desired. That would definitely go a long way. Just to prove a point on this too, I know people who never used shortcuts ever and used CrunchBang loved the shortcuts thanks to the conky script.
Anyway, they're far more efficient in that regard than the DEs we've been using.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
103 • Menus (by fernbap on 2011-11-11 18:58:58 GMT from Portugal)
I don't understand why people would havew anything against menus. Menus are a trail that leads to all applications. You can't go wrong with a menu.
It is also, obviously, the most newcomer friendly approach, since it allows anyone who is not familiar with the desktop to run any application. Not only that, it is a way to show the newcomer which applications he has available.
Sure, it may not be the quickest way to do things, but it is the sure way to get there.
That doesn't mean that the desktop can't have ways to ease the task for the most used applications, which they usually have.
But get rid of menus? Are people insane?
104 • Menus (by Landor on 2011-11-11 21:34:12 GMT from Canada)
Obviously you believe in limited functionality.
GNOME and Canonical both have brought a better, more intelligent option to the old dilemma of needlessly flipping through sections to find out what you want. Then let's not forget that every single menu structure differs as to the preferences of the DE/WM, or the developer of each.
In fact, people who use mobile phones (which are the majority of the world) negates your belief that people need a menu to see what is there. Just because people think another operating system made them first, and that's what everyone uses, is what everyone will expect, doesn't mean it's true. I the shell alternatives far more user friendly, and far easier to explore for anyone. Oh, and new users to a computer are pretty well a myth in this age, unless they're a child, and if so, they're readily taught new things that they don't have some preconceived belief about that people who are too fixed to progress with do have.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
105 • Interfaces (by Jesse on 2011-11-11 23:01:09 GMT from Canada)
>> "Anyone coming from another operating system to this one has to be considered, even of the smallest scale, a power user. Why? Because they install operating systems, take control of their system. "
While that used to be true, I don't think it holds anymore. Lots of people these days use Linux, but didn't install it themselves. Lots of people post here about introducing their friends or family to Linux and installing it for them to avoid dealing with malware.
That aside, I do agree that simplified interfaces, if designed properly, have the potential to appeal to a wide audience. The example with the short-cut keys is quite spot-on. Putting those in the background was a great move by the developers.
I think the big issue a lot of people have with GNOME Shell and Unity isn't the default design so much as the lack of configuration options. A good graphical interface should be fast to respond, intuitive, flexible, consistent and easy to navigate quickly. I believe the intuitiveness and navigation of GNOME 3 and Unity are up for debate and will vary from person to person. However, neither is flexible nor responsive and Unity (at least) isn't consistent.
106 • Desktop Environments (by tdockery97 on 2011-11-11 23:29:35 GMT from United States)
The comments here demonstrate the undeniable fact that everyone has different tastes and different needs. That is, of course, why we all use Linux. Well, guess what? You want Gnome Shell? We got it. You want Classic Gnome? We got it. You want single panel at the bottom Gnome? We got it. And we got it all in ONE single edition. The new Linux Mint 12 Lisa is almost here. It's just been released in RC status, and gives you the choice of using Gnome 3 Shell, Classic Gnome desktop, or the Mint-style Gnome desktop with a single panel at the bottom using MATE. I may get deleted for "spamming", but I just want to point out that it IS possible to provide a choice for everyone.
107 • Gnome Shell and Unity (by Henning on 2011-11-12 00:29:59 GMT from Denmark)
In my opinion, Unity and Gnome Shell share 2 problems, that keep me from using them: 1. When you have several applications running at the same time, navigating between them is confusing.
2- They are quite demanding on hardware resources. They seem quite slow, compared to LXDE.
If the top panel in Unity (I think it is called "Global Menu") would show open applications, so that switching between them was easier, and if Unity was made less demanding on hardware resources (and therefore faster) I would go back to using Unity
108 • What linux is best for syncing your samsung galaxy tablet 10.1 usb connection (by androidsamsung on 2011-11-12 02:17:15 GMT from United States)
I was just wondering , also remastersys seems very broken in ubuntu as of current versions of ubuntu, and that relinux fails to make a usable version of ubuntu 11.10 for me, it will not boot, I was also using ubuntu tweak for it of course, it runs fine, but as soon as I tried that relinux instead of remastersys, the usb image fails to start up based on what I had installed of course
these are and lack of good hardware plug and play support is why I have to stick with windows all the game, plus gaming reasons too, dual booting is a need for me, linux alone can't do it
109 • Gnome shell and Unity (by fernbap on 2011-11-12 02:45:51 GMT from Portugal)
Clem explained it better than i could.
Gnome shell and Unity are application centric, while gnome 2 is task centric, and your opinion goes exactly according to that definition.
An application centric desktiop makes sense on a smartphone or a tablet, but it certainly doesn't make sense in a PC workstation.
Also, there are 2 very different approaches to things. For instance, if i want to listen to a mp3 file, i open my mp3 folder, and double-click on the file i want to hear.
An application centric environment makes me have to load the mp3 player first, and then look for my mp3 file from within that application. Sometimes, the application itself doesn't allow you to browse your disk, but relies on a "library" that is not updated in real time.
That fact is, in fact, why i don't like KDE 4. It is too application centric.
110 • Unity & Gnome == Vim & Emacs Full circle (by Sayth on 2011-11-12 02:59:44 GMT from Australia)
Unity and gnome3 are becoming powerful tools. Using them feels a lot like vim & emacs after a little usage they become powerful tools. Your hands never have to leave the keyboard to slide a mouse and click and back and forth again when using unity especially.
Just like some people will never come too like vim or emacs the same will be true of gnome3 & unity. Both emacs and vim after al these years still have large communities due to the power they bring to the user and I think we will find the same of unity and gnome3.
111 • Keyboard shortcuts on a touch screen? (by RollMeAway on 2011-11-12 03:21:27 GMT from United States)
Makes NO sense to me.
Guess you could call up an on screen keyboard and awkwardly touch two keys.
If this is progress, leave me out.
112 • DVL, dead? (by Chuck on 2011-11-12 08:09:58 GMT from United States)
A few weeks back I asked about the dilinquent status of
DVL. Curiously the next week they posted a -new- expection date, end of 2011. Over the past week however, the message strongly suggests the distro is dead -- as in '... quit looking for something that doesn't exist'./
Any enlightenment available?
chuck
113 • DE configurability (by zykoda on 2011-11-12 09:30:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Some years ago I tried to remove "icon" displays from the file manager and menu systems. It would have proved very tedious to go through the process. What I required was just a plain text listing (ls) since the icons had little utility. It would appear today, that those seemingly meaningless "glyphs" have now found currency. I suppose it's yet another housekeeping feature like the invention of the filename or variable. Everything will soon be a glyph which is OK if you speak glyphish. Still the Greeks continue to channel philosophy.... "The Greeks had a glyph for it".
114 • @109 (by Brandon Sniadajewski on 2011-11-12 12:51:59 GMT from United States)
KDE 4, at least the regular desktop UI, is still very much task-centric. It still has a taskbar (called Task Manager, but you can have other task maangers, like Smooth Tasks for Win7-like experience). I'm not certain about the netbook UI as I don't use it though, but KDE still has a definitely a good desktop experience if you want that.
115 • FreeBSD packages on dvd1 (by Cyclops on 2011-11-13 01:18:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Does anyone know if new FreeBSD9.0 will release dvd1 with packages, or does one have to build the system on our own like betaX and rc1?
Also if anyone has scripts to build livecd/livedvd in FreeBSD would you mind sharing them or pointing to a site where this is explained. FreeSBIE is an outdated project and is next to useless. Thanks!
116 • re #115 FreeBSD live (by gnomic on 2011-11-13 02:07:00 GMT from New Zealand)
ghostbsd.org may be of interest.
117 • re #100 - Solaris 11 (by Breathing Brain on 2011-11-13 18:14:09 GMT from United States)
Beautiful post, mechanic. Those are very much my experiences with Solaris. But it's the distro that started me into Unix/Linuxland, so I take a run at it every so often. It provides frustrations and aggravations that are truly special.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand it's device naming conventions....
118 • Fedora 16 Install fiasco. (by Jeffersonian on 2011-11-13 18:33:23 GMT from United States)
Hello:
I have used read hat and fedora for about 12 years....
And I have always found this distro leading the pack.
But this time, I tried to install Fedora 16 on a multi boot system (Mint, Fedora 15, Centos 6, Win 7), using the usual custom install, and I have to admit it is a total fiasco !
I used the Fedora 16 x64 DVD on an HP (so far rock stable) machine.
First I reformatted a (logical) partition a btfrs and tried to install Fedora 16 (F16) on it: not only could I not even have the installer to allow me a custom install on the freshly partitioned partition (/dev/sda9).
Further more this attempt to install damaged very badly the existing FC15 partition that I wanted to keep pristine, until FC16 was proven stable.
I tried to reformat a partition as ext4: still anaconda would not even allow me to install FC16 on this partition at all ! urthermore it is almost forcing me to install LVM that I do not want (I have my reasons).
Why a new installer (Anaconda) when the old one did the job, and was reliable?
Better cosmetic to compete with Mint/Ubuntu I guess: why not ?
but then it has to be usable !
Also it would be a great idea to integrate (as an option) gparted as part of the installer... because it works very well : only the old Mandrake was to this level of usability!
This new installer has for the moment all the bad sides of Windows: trying to hard to second guess what the user want to achieve: so far not a success!
I suggest that the custom install (usually used on multi-boot systems) does not attempt to second-guess the user, and just does what the user wishes to do. And this goes for the boot loader, and the boot sector too !
I am sure that will be fixed.... and sooner or later I will be a FC16 user, still the most appealing distro for a developer (Ubuntu/Mint have in my view serious short commings for kernel work!).
By the way: since most Linux Installers try to reinvent the wheel it would very useful if a group could just focus on creating the best Linux Distro installer, to take that part away from the Ubuntu, Fedora crowd, because they are not so good here !
Mandrake had one of the best installer, years ago, it was KDE 3 based.
It is also unfortunate that neither KDE nor GNOME could provide a long term stable platform for a good Linux installer... that may be a part of the problem: need some stability there: difficult to build on unstable ground. Here the quest for eye-candy seems to have been counter productive, it has bee achieved at a high cost.
I am looking forward for (in my view) the best Linux Distro for developper to be at leat usable...
J.
119 • re #98 -- Re: Disunity (by Breathing Brain on 2011-11-13 18:57:25 GMT from United States)
I was also a distroholic and my path was similar to Shahryar's. Except that I never found a non-lite distro that was fast enough, and I wasn't willing to wait for newly developed hardware's speed to overcome the software bloat. I first got into Linux with Mandrake and Red Hat, and stayed with Mandrake because it was reasonably user-friendly. I kept looking at other distros, but for all the bloat and other problems of Mandrake/Mandriva, I never found a non-lite distro that was much better. Until I stumbled onto Archlinux, which pleased me so much I soon switched and never looked back.
After years of using KDE and Gnome, found them bloated and slow. I like the reasonably full-featured lighter graphical environments like xfce4 and lxde, which provided the same functionality I got from KDE and Gnome, but without being complex and slow and requiring the installation of so much supporting software.
It was a little disconcerting to feel most of my distroholic urges dry up, because trying new distros can be fun. But I still check some out every so often. Recently I tried installed Ubuntu but for some reason it wouldn't install. I installed Lubuntu instead, and it seems to work okay.
I periodical install *ubuntu because it's become so huge in the Linux scene, not because I like it much. It's supposed to be this great distro for newbies, but it doesn't work all that perfectly, at least not on my hardware, and requires as much tinkering with nagging little issues as most other distros do after installation. Plus *ubuntu does enough things differently from other distros for no apparent advantage that it's sort of its own standard, and there's nothing so wonderful about *ubuntu that makes me want to take the time to learn all the differences. Though every so often I install a new version and give it a chance to change my mind for me. It hasn't yet.
The Unixes, which I guess are BSDs and Solaris, are their own special kind pain. In my experience, the idea of a desktop BSD is a joke. And you gotta love Unices which feature file systems that want to take over the entire hard drive. Or those that have such crappy partitioning tools that you can only get them to install on primary partitions. It's amusing to install Unices and see how close to useful functionality you can get them to.
120 • Re: 118 Re: Fedora 16 (by dc on 2011-11-13 19:26:28 GMT from United States)
Fedora finally gave into peer pressure and upgraded to Grub 2 for Fedora 16. If you do custom partitioning, you need to create a 1 MB Grub partition. By the way, Fedora has been using anaconda for many years, it isn't a new installer.
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| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
|
| Random Distribution | 
Happy Linux
Happy Linux was a Chinese Linux distribution based on Red Hat Linux.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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