 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 414, 18 July 2011 |
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Welcome to this year's 29th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! PCLinuxOS is an unpretentious distribution that has a large and up-to-date software repository and which claims to have a rolling-release development model. Jesse Smith takes the recently-announced version 2011.6 for a ride to see how much it progressed in recent months. Is it still one of the best distributions for novice users? In the news section, CentOS battles Scientific Linux for the position of the top free Red Hat Enterprise Linux clone, Slackware Linux users celebrate the distribution's 18th anniversary since the release of 1.0 back in July 1993, an Official Ubuntu Book author provides tips and tricks for the Unity desktop, and Raphaël Hertzog launches a fund-raising initiative to translate a popular French Debian book into English. Also in this issue, a quick look at the licenses of popular office suites, a roadmap leading to Mageia 2, and all the usual regular sections. Happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
A first look at PCLinuxOS 2011.6
 The PCLinuxOS distribution is self-described as "a free easy to use Linux-based Operating System for x86 desktops or laptops." Originally a fork of Mandriva, the PCLinuxOS project is an independent distro that mixes and matches technology to put together an operating system which I would describe as a dark horse of the Linux community. The latest release of PCLinuxOS, version 2011.6, came out recently and I took their KDE edition for a spin.
The project's live CD weighs in at a hair under 700 MB and kicks off by showing us a graphical boot screen where we can choose whether to try the disc's live environment or launch the installer. The PCLinuxOS installer is graphical and does a nice job of balancing ease of use with providing options. We're asked to choose a keyboard layout, then we jump into choosing a disk to partition. Turning the entire disk over to PCLinuxOS is also an option. The installer supports a wide range of file systems and options, letting us select between ext3, ext4, ReiserFS, XFS, JFS, FAT and NTFS. There are also options for LVM and RAID and partitions can be encrypted by marking a checkbox. Then we wait while the installer copies its files to the hard drive. Several minutes later we're asked whether we'd like to use GRUB or LILO for our boot loader and where the boot loader should be installed. We can also set a boot loader password and the amount of time to delay before booting the default OS.
The first time we start PCLinuxOS from the hard drive we're asked to perform a few configuration steps. First we select our time zone and we are given the option of setting our clocks to local time, UTC or using one of an array of NTP servers to keep our clock synchronized. We set a password for the root account and then create a single non-root user.
PCLinuxOS 2011.6 - desktop and application menu
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Logging in for the first time we're shown a KDE 4.6 desktop with a grey background. There is an application menu at the bottom of the screen, some quick-launch buttons and the system tray. The quick-launch bar features icons for the KDE System Settings panel, the Dolphin file manager, the system's Control Center and the Synaptic package manager. On the desktop we find icons for opening the firewall configuration tool, Localization Manager, LibreOffice Manager, the Network Center and the user's home folder. There's definitely a configuration theme presented with the default launchers. The desktop effects are turned off, as are KDE's search & indexing features, making for a responsive environment.
Things got off to a bit of a rough start when I went into the KDE System Settings and started adjusting things to better suit my preferences. The system locked up while I was changing workspace settings. Upon rebooting I started poking through the icons on the desktop and found the Localization Manager would let me choose my locale, but would then insist on rebooting the machine. No option to put off the reboot was given. Fortunately the manager does wait until the user presses an OK button before restarting the machine so people have an opportunity to save work in progress.
The PCLinuxOS distribution is an unusual beast in that it uses RPM packages, but manages them with APT tools. On the command line we're able to use the apt-get and apt-cache commands and the distro includes the Synaptic package manager. During my time with PCLinuxOS I was able to install, remove and upgrade software without any problems, both from the command line and from the GUI.
The distribution manages to pack a lot of software onto the CD. At install time we are treated to Firefox 5, KTorrent, the Pidgin instant messenger client and the Thunderbird e-mail application. We also find an app for handling 3G devices, an IRC chat program and Dropbox client. There's the Choqok micro-blogger, a document viewer and Clemetine audio player. Also in the multimedia section we find the the VLC multimedia player, a CD player, TVtime and the Imagination slide show maker. The application menu also holds the GIMP, the K3b disc burner, KMyMoney, an archive manager, text editor and the Midnight Commander file manager. Peeking behind the scenes we find codecs for playing mp3 files and popular video formats. A Flash plugin is pre-installed and works with Firefox. The GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) is in the default install and, underneath it all, is the 2.6.38 release of the Linux kernel.
You may have noticed in the above list I didn't mention any office software, but I did say there is a LibreOffice Manager icon on the desktop. Clicking the LibreOffice icon kicks off a process which downloads Java and, it says, the base package for LibreOffice. However, when the download completed I found Java was installed, but did not find any office software on my system. Opening the Synaptic package manager I did some searches for office packages and found KOffice was available through the repositories and some clip-art for LibreOffice was listed, but I did not find packages to install LibreOffice or OpenOffice. According to this page, the LibreOffice Manager script should have installed the suite for me, but it did not work in my case, despite running it twice. As with other instances of distributions including an install script for commonly used software (like Firefox and LibreOffice), I can't help but think the users would be better served if developers simply placed the desired software in the repositories so it can be treated like any other package. This idea of having a special program to install and update software smacks too much of the situation we see on Windows where each program must be installed and upgraded separately.
PCLinuxOS 2011.6 - managing software packages
(full image size: 238kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
Up to this point I've been describing how PCLinuxOS worked on my laptop (dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, Intel video card). I have to say the distro handled the machine well. Audio worked out of the box, as did my Intel wireless card. My desktop resolution was set to a reasonable level and my touchpad worked as expected. I found performance to be pretty good, about average for a KDE desktop. Moving over to my desktop machine (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA video card) things did not go so well. Most attempts to boot off the installation disc would result in the machine hanging. Once, while going through the various boot options, I managed to get PCLinuxOS to drop me at a text-based login prompt, but that didn't do me much good and, upon trying to reboot, the machine locked-up. Long story short, I did not install PCLinuxOS on the desktop machine.
A few weeks back I looked at the Control Center which ships with Mageia and the version of the Control Center which comes with PCLinuxOS is very similar. It's an outstanding system configuration tool and I find it both easy to use and powerful. There are some small variations in the PCLinuxOS version. For instance, because PCLinuxOS uses Synaptic for package management, this distribution's Control Center doesn't have the Software category found in Mageia. Synaptic is treated as a separate entity and takes care of all the various functions the software managing modules cover in Mageia. Likewise I didn't find any parental controls in PCLinuxOS -- there are security features, but they seem to be designed with expert users in mind. Otherwise the modules for adjusting the network, getting information on hardware, handing system services and user accounts work much the same way between the two distributions. I find the Control Center's interface to be well laid out, detailed and quick to respond, making it attractive to both novice and advanced users.
PCLinuxOS 2011.6 - Control Center
(full image size: 238kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
When I tried PCLinuxOS last year I thought it was a solid, well put together distribution and its biggest issue was probably that it lives in the same family as Mandriva. On its own the PCLinuxOS project looks good. However, when placed next to its family members (Mandriva and Mageia) PCLinuxOS starts to look a little less polished. And, problems with my desktop hardware aside, that was my biggest issue this time around.
Under the hood PCLinuxOS is still a good distribution. It has a nice installer, the KDE desktop has pretty good defaults and it comes with a wide selection of useful software. It's the presentation that I feel could use some improvement. I don't mean the grey theme -- it's not my favourite colour, but at least it's not purple. No, by presentation I mean, for example, the default icons on the desktop. Most users aren't going to regularly access their firewall configuration, their localization settings or the LibreOffice Manager. Most users will want to access their web browser and e-mail client on a daily basis, but those icons aren't on the desktop or the quick-launch bar. The application menu does quite a bit of nesting in some places, even if the sub-menu has just one item in it. Synaptic is a capable package manager, but it's not as newcomer-friendly as Mageia's software manager. What it boils down to is that, if we put Mageia beside PCLinuxOS, I think an argument can be made that the latter is more appealing from a technical, "let's tweak the settings," point of view, but loses points in presentation and user-friendliness.
I think people who already use PCLinuxOS will like this release and I recommend it if you like aspects of Mandriva/Mageia, but prefer using APT for package management. It's a well-crafted project with a few interesting personal touches and an odd quirk or two, and I find that endearing at a time when so many developers are putting out clones with different themes.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
CentOS versus Scientific Linux, 18 years of Slackware, Ubuntu Unity tips, "The Debian Administrator's Handbook"
 So what will it be, CentOS or Scientific Linux? In the past there was only one "real" free Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) clone and it was CentOS, but the long delay in delivering version 6, communication problems, resignation of a high-profile CentOS developer and, most importantly, delays in delivering errata updates, have made some people look at the hottest alternative - Scientific Linux. Here are one person's conclusions after evaluating the two distributions: "Scientific Linux is definitely on the rise, and CentOS certainly needs to air out themselves a little. But at least with version 6.0, we're still going to be going with our tried-and-true CentOS. I'm just not comfortable enough, yet, with the Scientific Linux community, mainly because they still don't quite know how long they plan to keep their products alive. Out of this look at RHEL clones, though, the single biggest thing I've discovered is that I'm going to have to keep evaluating this choice down the road."
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 Eighteen years and still going strong; which distribution could have such a tremendous staying power? Of course, we are talking about Slackware Linux, the world's oldest surviving Linux distro, which last week celebrated 18 years since the release of version 1.0: "Slackware 1.0 was released by Patrick Volkerding exactly 18 years ago on 16 July 1993 in an official release when he was still a student. At that time, it was distributed on 24 disks (yes, floppy disks) and it only had two series, A and X. No one would ever have thought that it would once become the oldest maintained Linux distribution! In 1993, there weren't many Linux distributions. Slackware was one of the first at that time alongside SLS, Debian GNU/Linux, Yggdrasil, and MCC Interim. It turned out to be so good that many other Linux distributions based themselves on Slackware, including SuSE Linux, VectorLinux, Slax, Zenwalk, Salix and many more."
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 Ubuntu's Unity desktop has been the subject of long discussions ever since the arrival of "Natty Narwhal" nearly three months ago. Some love it, others hate it, and there are always those who keep using the desktop without having properly mastered its inner workings. Matthew Helmke, one of the authors of the Official Ubuntu Book, has written an article entitled "Ubuntu Unity: A GUI for Beginners and Experts", which is a nice overview of the Unity desktop with some tips and tricks for users of all levels: "The computer mouse is a useful tool, but it can slow you down. This is a common complaint among power users. Learning keyboard shortcuts can improve productivity. Several are discussed below in 'Using Unity as a Power User,' but here's quick one to whet the appetite. Use the Special key, often called the 'Windows key' and found between the Ctrl and Alt keys at the bottom-left of the keyboard, to open Shortcuts. Like the Dash, Shortcuts is a pop-up panel. You can also access Shortcuts by clicking the Ubuntu logo at the top-left of the screen with your mouse."
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  Raphaël Hertzog, a well-known Debian developer, has emailed DistroWatch with some interesting news concerning the Cahier de l'Admin Debian, a popular Debian handbook written in French and co-authored by Hertzog. Up until now the book has only been published in French. But since it has turned out to be a huge hit among French-speaking Debian users, the authors have made a plan to translate it into English and release it under a free license: "The Debian Administrator's Handbook is the title of the translation of the French best-seller known as 'Cahier de l'Admin Debian'. Written by two Debian developers, Raphaël Hertzog and Roland Mas, it's a fantastic resource for all users of a Debian-based distribution. Given that traditional editors did not want to take the risk to make this translation, we decided to do the translation ourselves and to self-publish the result. But we want to go further than this, we want the result to be freely available (that is under the terms of a license compatible with the Debian Free Software Guidelines of course). However it's very difficult to spend several months of work without income. That's why we're going to run a fund-raising."
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
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Office licenses
There-is-a-license-in-my-office-software asks: Apparently OpenOffice.org is now under the Apache License allowing Oracle to keep the copyright. How will this affect LibreOffice?
DistroWatch answers: For those who haven't been following the many steps in The Dance of the Productivity Suites, Oracle decided to turn over the OpenOffice.org project (which they acquired from Sun) to the Apache Software Foundation. It's a bit soon to tell how this is going to affect the OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice projects as OpenOffice.org is still in the incubation stage of adoption.
Early stage or not, the OpenOffice.org project is moving to the Apache License and this isn't necessarily a good thing for OpenOffice.org or for future collaboration between OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice. The LibreOffice project is licensed under the GNU Lesser General Public License and the two licenses aren't entirely compatible. The GNU LGPL pushes to keep software free, putting more requirements on the developer, where the Apache License takes a more "do whatever you want" approach to freedom. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this means OpenOffice's code can be accepted into LibreOffice, but the reverse is not true.
How will this affect LibreOffice? Probably not much. I imagine the LibreOffice team isn't thrilled to see Oracle turn OpenOffice.org over to the Apache Software Foundation instead of The Document Foundation. A lot of people were willing to write off OpenOffice.org while it was under Oracle's control, but the Apache group has a long and positive history and developers are likely to feel more comfortable dealing with Apache than with Oracle, further dividing the contributors to the two suites. So it's not an ideal situation for either project.
What will make this dance more interesting is IBM transferring their Symphony office suite code to Apache. Symphony is based on OpenOffice.org and placing Symphony under the guidance of the Apache Software Foundation means improvements made by IBM to the code base can be shared with OpenOffice.org. And, for that matter, those same improvements may find their way into LibreOffice too. What I think makes this whole situation intriguing is that many Linux distributions have chosen to side with LibreOffice. Meanwhile, people on proprietary systems, if they use one of these suites, generally use OpenOffice.org. And, so far as I know, the BSD community hasn't really come down on a side yet. I find myself wondering if, in the near future, we may see one open source office suite primarily running on proprietary operating systems and a different one running on open source platforms.
A point was brought up on this blog that I think deserves consideration. The author suggests this is an opportunity to work together and focus on compatibility. The author points out that since the code can flow in one direction (OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice), it make sense for developers to work on the document handling code in OpenOffice.org and let those patches flow into LibreOffice. Then both suites could build their own interfaces separately. Essentially this would give both suites a shared (compatible) document engine, and slightly different interfaces. Of course any combined effort involving large projects is difficult, but I think there is an opening here to use one as the conservative base and the other as an experimental sister project. Similar, perhaps, to the way Ubuntu builds on top of Debian or GhostBSD builds on FreeBSD.
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| Released Last Week |
Pardus Linux 2011.1
Gökçen Eraslan has announced the release of Pardus Linux 2011.1: "Pardus 2011.1 'Dama Dama' is now available. Here are the basic components and their versions shipped within Pardus 2011.1 release: KDE Desktop Environment 4.6.5, Linux kernel 2.6.37.6, LibreOffice 3.4.1.3, Mozilla Firefox web browser 5.0, X.Org Server 1.9.5, GIMP 2.6.11, Python 2.7.1, GCC 4.5.3, glibc 2.12. In addition to those updates: lots of bugs have been fixed; 64-bit Skype and WINE package are now in 2011 stable repository; YALI has a System Rescue mode now; work on 2009 - 2011 distribution upgrade interface is about to finish, after the testing is complete, upgrade-manager package will be provided in 2009 repositories to ease the transition; QuickFormat application can be tested now to format USB removable disks easily.... Here is the brief release announcement.
Sabayon Linux 6 "E17", "LXDE", "Xfce"
Fabio Erculiani has announced the availability of three new Sabayon Linux 6 spins, featuring the Enlightenment 17, LXDE and Xfce desktops: "This is the last set of Sabayon 6 releases, we have Sabayon 6 LXDE, a very lightweight desktop environment for elderly systems, that fits on a single 700 MB CD. Then there is Sabayon 6 Xfce, which has been turned into a valid GNOME alternative, breaking the 700 MB size barrier, provided with multimedia and office applications, NVIDIA, AMD GPU drivers and more. Last and probably least, there is Sabayon 6 E17, it's Enlightenment 17 SVN snapshot, for the brave. Here is the full release announcement.
Superb Mini Server 1.6.1
Just announced - a new minor update to Superb Mini Server (SMS), a Slackware-based distribution for servers: "Superb Mini Server version 1.6.1 released (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3). This minor release upgrade brings the latest stable Linux kernel version 2.6.39.3. SMS 1.6.1 features the latest stable releases of various packages, such as Perl 5.14.1, MySQL 5.1.58, Postfix 2.8.4, CUPS 1.4.7, httpd 2.2.19, Samba 3.5.9 and GCC 4.5.3. In SMS.Native.CD-Extra.iso added trunk version of iscsitarget package, an open source iSCSI target, built for stock SMP kernel (2.6.39.3-smp), and latest sources of OpenbravoERP MP0.1. SMS now has officially a wiki page with video tutorials and basic tasks for configuring SMS in various situations. There is also an smsdoc.pdf book in PDF format, which will be updated frequently. Read the rest of the release announcement for a full changelog.
aptosid 2011-02
Stefan Lippers-Hollmann has announced the release of aptosid 2011-02, a desktop distribution based on Debian's unstable branch and featuring the latest KDE and Xfce desktops: "Now that kernel 2.6.39 and KDE 4.6 have entered the archive and stabilised in sid after the 'Squeeze' release, we have the pleasure to announce the immediate availability of the final aptosid 2011-02 'Imera' release. New features in aptosid 2011-02 are numerous integration and stabilisation fixes. Kernel 2.6.39 doesn't only improve and stabilise hardware support for newer devices, it also improves latency and general system performance. Starting with KDE 4.6 and Xfce 4.8, HAL has now become obsolete and got replaced by event-driven udev-based alternative which allows to run common desktop setups without the HAL daemon. Read the detailed release notes for more information.
aptosid 2011-02 - a new release of the Debian "sid"-based distribution
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Linvo GNU/Linux 2010.12.6
Ivo Georgiev has announced the release of Linvo GNU/Linux 2010.12.6, a Slackware-based (installable) live DVD with GNOME 2.32, custom package manager, multimedia codecs support and other user-friendly features: "Linvo 2010.12.6. This is probably the last maintenance release of the GNOME-powered 2010.12 series. It features a couple of bug fixes (e.g. dependency handling) and improvements (e.g. smooth download progress bar) to LinvoApp, the distinctive applications management system. Unfortunately, some applications (mostly obsolete) have been removed from the website because they were not built right by the LinvoApp automatic builder, so now we're down to only 125 applications. Of course, LinvoApp is still beta and you can always use the traditional Gslapt to install software if you miss something which is not in the Applications category." Here is the brief release announcement.
NetSecL 3.2
Yuriy Stanchev has announced the release of NetSecL 3.2, a hardened openSUSE-based distribution with tools for penetration testing, but also suitable as a general desktop product: "NetSecL 3.2 comes with a brand new LXDE which increased dramatically the performance, we closed many bugs and also gained more compatibility with openSUSE 11.4. The grsecurity kernel is updated to 2.6.32.8, please check installation instructions if you wish to use it. And here is the work we have done: ext4 issue with grsecurity is resolved; booting in VM with new grsecurity resolved; new Metasploit; Firefox 5; updated Exploit-db repository; grsecurity kernel, locked from zypper - you can update the whole system without worrying; Snort-inline reintegrated (get Snort rules and change them to drop; size of the ISO image smaller by 200 MB." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information.
PCLinuxOS 2011.07 "KDE MiniMe"
Bill Reynolds has announced the release of PCLinuxOS 2011.07 "KDE MiniMe" edition. This product is designed for more advanced users who prefer to install a minimal KDE-based (version 4.6.5) system and extend it later via the distribution's online repositories. From the release announcement: "PCLinuxOS KDE MiniMe 2011.07 for 32-bit computers (works on 64-bit computers too) is now available for download. What's new? The kernel was updated to version 2.6.38.8. Additional kernels, such as a PAE kernel for computers with more than 4 GB of memory, are available from our repositories. A BFS kernel for maximum desktop performance and a standard kernel with group scheduling enabled. X.Org Server was updated to version 1.10.3. Mesa updated to 7.10.3 and libdrm to version 2.4.26."
Kongoni GNU/Linux 2011
Robert Gabriel has announced the release of Kongoni GNU/Linux 2011, a Slackware-based desktop distribution built exclusively from libre software: "I'm very happy to announce the stable release of Kongoni 2011 (code name 'Firefly'). Most bugs and glitches have been removed and we can say now that Kongoni is ready for the stable release. Some extensive work has gone into the live CD and initrd. We have moved to initramfs for the live CD, udev is used now and there is no limitation in space when creating the initramfs as we dropped dd and mkfs.ext2 in favor of cpio. This also should make the live CD a bit faster and much more reliable. KDE has been updated to version 4.6.5 due to some bug fixes, IceCat updated to version 5.0, Gnash updated to version 0.8.10-dev, BackInTime 1.0.8 added as a default backup tool and LibreOffice 3.4.1 is now available in the repository." Read the rest of the release announcement for further information.
Kongoni GNU/Linux 2011 - a Slackware-based distribution consisting of free software only
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PapugLinux 11.1
Sylvain Balbous has announced the release of PapugLinux 11.1, a minimalist, Gentoo-based live CD featuring the Fluxbox window manager, some development tools and several version control system programs: "PapugLinux 11.1 is available for download, this is a major release in term of package updates. We choose to focus our additions on development tools for this version. The great Python language comes in 2 versions (2.7 and 3.1) and we also include Subversion and the very popular Git as version control systems. This could make PapugLinux a great bundle to start to learn Python or simply browse the open-source projects all over the world. The live running mode uses new tools and another compression format, this results in more content in a smaller size." Here is the brief release announcement.
PapugLinux 11.1 - a lightweight Gentoo-based live CD
(full image size: 605kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.04-r2
The regular monthly re-spins of Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.04, a desktop distribution originally forked from Arch Linux, continue with the latest update: "The Chakra development team is proud to announce the second respin of 'Aida'. We added lots of package updates and KDE got updated to 4.6.5 with our patches added. Also we updated our hardware detection and added the latest drivers. So what changed with this release: CInstall, our bundle handler got a fresh user interface; Burg theme got updated; complete rewrite of our init scripts; support for systemd added (installation via repositories); small fixes to some packages. Other features to mention: Linux kernel 2.6.39 series; X.Org 7.6 stack with Mesa 7.10.3 and X.Org Server 1.10.3...." See the full release announcement for more details.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Mageia 2 roadmap
 Mageia has published a roadmap leading to the distribution's second stable release. The development tree known as "Cauldron" will reach alpha status in the middle of November 2011 and the entire cycle will consists of two alphas, two betas and one release candidate. The final release of Mageia 2 is scheduled for 4 April 2012. One other interesting point is that Mageia is aiming for a 9-month release cycle, which is similar to openSUSE's and it might also have a periodic LTS (long-term support) release. Anne Nicolas explains: "The release cycle for Mageia will be 9 months. We think it's a well-balanced choice, providing an up-to-date distribution that's also stable. It should also give us enough time to build the specifications, develop, package, innovate and finalize it. Each Mageia release will be supported for 18 months. We will have a global review of our resources before the next release to check that we can still provide support according to our first plan. If all is going well, then we will think about releasing an LTS version every 18 months, to be supported for 3 years."
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
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New distributions added to database
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Bigtux. Bigtux is a Ukrainian Linux distribution based on Ubuntu. The project's website is in Russian.
- LuninuX OS. LuninuX OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution with GNOME, multimedia support and custom look & feel.
- Snowlinux. Snowlinux is a Debian-based distribution and live CD with GNOME.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 25 July 2011.
Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • PCLinuxOS 2011.06 (by tdockery97 on 2011-07-18 09:27:19 GMT from United States)
I tried this new release (KDE desktop) and have to say that I was a little disappointed. In the year and a half that I've been using Linux on my HP laptop, I have never had a problem with my ATI video...until now. PCLOS installs the proprietary driver automatically on installation. I guess that's fine, except it gave me the wrong monitor resolution making everything look stretched out. I was able to find the settings in System Settings, but no matter what I did, the correct setting would not stick. On reboot it would revert back to the wrong setting. Maybe next time.
Fortunately I decided to try the new Fedora 15 LXDE release instead, and all I can say is if you like LXDE, give it a try. It's been awarded a permanent partition on my laptop.
2 • PCLinuxOS lxde rocks (by Barista Uno on 2011-07-18 09:27:26 GMT from Philippines)
I have recently switched to PCLinuxOS 2011.6 lxde edition from Bodhi Linux 1.1.0. It is creditably fast, easy to use and very stable. Both novice and veteran Linux users will find it a joy to configure and tweak. A job well done by the PCLinuxOS team!
3 • PU-IAS? (by Pumpino on 2011-07-18 09:37:25 GMT from Australia)
The CentOS vs Scientific article includes a comment making reference to another RHEL clone. "We was recently introduced to PU-IAS, Princeton University’s RHEL clone entry. The PU-IAS Web site touts this distro as pre-dating CentOS. We’ve installed it, we like it. PU-IAS seems to be a well kept secret that’s worth a look.?
I've never heard of it and it's not even listed on DistroWatch. I'm intrigued!
4 • Sabayon.. (by Snagger on 2011-07-18 09:45:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
.. continues to disappoint. Truly awful selection of apps., and an .iso touching the max. of CD-RW. Wary Puppy achieves ten times the speed and productivity in a fraction of the overheads. Long past the time when these guys should give up and offer their talents to develop a more successful distro - this field is supersaturated, they will not be missed.
More bloated DVD-only releases appeared last week; great opportunity to get some work done in the garden! When will these folks listen?!
5 • Sabayon... (by KenWeiLL on 2011-07-18 10:39:07 GMT from Philippines)
I too have a problem with Sabayon. With Sabayon 6, it doesn't boot on both my desktop and laptop. I was hoping it would work. On 5.x, i got freezing problems on desktop. And wireless not detected on laptop. With 6, it gets worst on my machines. Both ended with kernel_threads errors. :(
6 • Ubuntu Unity / Gnome-3 (by The Rifleman on 2011-07-18 11:11:48 GMT from United States)
"Ubuntu's Unity desktop has been the subject of long discussions ever since the arrival of "Natty Narwhal" nearly three months ago. Some love it, others hate it, and there are always those who keep using the desktop without having properly mastered its inner workings."
What inner workings?! You can't adjust anything! Try to find a way to get rid of that horrible black theme. Try to delete the bottom bar and move the top bar to the bottom. I'm a former Windows User so that's where I want my main bar, not on top! Try to move the clock to the right more. - And where are some of the setting for the clock I am used to setting? If you ask me... Both Unity and Gnome-3 are horribly unfinished and never should have been released! The previews created a perception of ease-of-use that certainly was never delivered! Just plain junk! No where's that Mageia DVD?
7 • PCLinuxOS 2011.6 (by Carlos Felipe Araújo on 2011-07-18 11:48:01 GMT from Brazil)
PCLinuxOS 2011.6 works very good here, KDE is very fast, while in Kubuntu KDE is slow.Sometimes de touchpad of my netbook (Philco 10001) doesn't work, so I need reboot it and magically works. In my opinion, much better than Mageia, I read and reread several times on their site (Mageia) and I didn't understand the purpose and the differential in relation to Mandriva, PCLinuxOS is out-of-box and Mageia still follows the recipe for failure. I don't know why the Mageia's community doesn't seek to join the community of PCLinuxOS. It would be great
8 • CentOS and Scientific (by Omari on 2011-07-18 11:48:50 GMT from United States)
Why does it take so long for CentOS to build its Red Hat clone? Red Hat releases its source. If I recall, they have directions for how to strip out the Red Hat trademarks. Is there not some automated tool that could take the source, build the RPMs, and build the ISOs? I would think it would take days or a couple of weeks, not months. I've just never heard an explanation for this and wondered if anyone knows why this takes so long.
9 • PcLinuxOS KDE 2011.6 (by bert barten on 2011-07-18 11:50:46 GMT from Netherlands)
I have installed this distribution last weekend. It worked from the beginning on my Dell Latitude D 520 flawlessly. On the other hand I have to admit that last year after installing PcLinuxOS XFCE Phoenix nothing works and I had to break off the installing.So PcLinuxOS means in my case some mixed feelings. I have installed in the past many other distributions like Chakra, Ubuntu, Fedora and Mageia. On my HP Compaq 6710B I installed Debian Gnome Testing with Liquorix Kernel. This works also very good. So I have had some experience the last years with many distributions. For me with my hobby of distrohopping there are regularly challenges of installing new of newer editions of several distributions. That is why I can understand why Jesse could not get friends with this PcLinuxOS on his configuration and I did well with my Dell notebook.
10 • PCLinuxOS (by one_beerhunter on 2011-07-18 11:58:01 GMT from United States)
@tdockery
As a long time user of PCLOS, I am aware of certain quirks with the OS. I have heard many a reviewer point out some defect on their system that I have never experienced, or that could be overcome with 10 minutes worth of inquiry on the PCLOS forums. I would suggest running "XFdrake" as SU to fix your resolution issue.
@ all
A typical install of PCLOS for me... Is about 15 minutes to get a working system.
Updates require a working repository, always hit reload in Synaptic prior to attempting to upgrade or install additional software.
11 • LuninuX OS (by Fossala on 2011-07-18 11:59:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Went to check out LuninuX OS, Download the ISO but was only ~20MB and didn't work (obviously). So I went to there website and found the forum and all that did was ask me for ftp credentials. So being nice, thought I would fill out a bug report, Headed over to the "contact us" section and filled out all the errors I could find. Hit the "submit" button only to see an error message.
So if any LuninuX devs are checking on here at the moment can you sort out the issues so I can give you distro a try? At least sort out the "contact us" section because its annoying not being able to give you guys any feedback.
12 • PCLinuxOS and LibreOffice (by one_beerhunter on 2011-07-18 12:05:19 GMT from United States)
From the main page of www.pclinuxos.com
LibreOffice Manager has been updated to 3.4.1 and is now available in your Synaptic Package Manager as an update. Please update to this version before trying to install LibreOffice suite on a new installation as it will pull in the latest official version of LibreOffice.
13 • RH Clone Kernel Troubles (by Rob on 2011-07-18 12:05:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
@Omari - he asks why .. this is why - Red Hat's "obfuscated" kernel source http://lwn.net/Articles/430098/
That's commercial decision aimed at Oracle Unbreakable Linux, not Cent OS & Scientific etc, their difficulties are "collateral damage".
14 • PCLinuxOS 2011.6 (by GreenWolf70 on 2011-07-18 12:14:48 GMT from United States)
I've been using PCLinuxOS for almost 5 years now. It sits on every PC in my network. My wife, who I didn't think I would ever be able to get off of MS Windows, is happy using it and it meets my criteria for an OS, have a working Internet on install and keep use of the command line to an absolute minimum. With these rolling releases I don't see a completely new OS every time there's an update because it continues to use my present configuration (which I like). I am surprised by the author's install issues, because by my experience when nothing else will load in live CD, PCLinuxOS will and it always finds the wireless card which is usually my biggest issue with a new distro. It is usually the distro I recommend when someone ask about using Linux because I know they will have little problem using it.
15 • PCLinux OS KDE 2011.6 (by bennachie on 2011-07-18 12:17:56 GMT from Australia)
I tend to agree with the reviewer about the merits or otherwise of including a "get so-and-so" script when such a script can easily be overtaken by events (in this case, the replacement of LibreOffice 3.4.0 in the repositories by LibreOffice 3.4.1). In PCLinuxOS, the traditional recommendation to check for and install any available updates immediately after the initial installation should be considered mandatory. Amongst many other presumably valuable changes, the revised "lomanager" script does succeed in installing LibreOffice.
That glitch aside, this really is a very solid and useful distribution.
16 • Ubuntu,unity/gnome3 (by mandog on 2011-07-18 12:31:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
@6 This is your opinion as a ex windows user Unity/Gnome is not windows. Not using Unity I can't comment, but as as gnome 3 user I can and a windows user from 3.1 to date I can say Gnome 3 is a excellent modern set-up and easy to use 5 mins playing with a live cd or in vbox it takes time to learn.
17 • Ubuntu's Unity desktop (by Carlos Felipe Araújo on 2011-07-18 12:44:07 GMT from Brazil)
I hate, but I hate twice gnome 3 shell. Currently, I'm feeling a little orphan and I'm using now Lubuntu (LXDE) and I like, but I miss compiz effects. I like to see all my windows minimized, in Unity I feel lost.
18 • Ubuntu Unity/ Gnome 3 desktops (by rich52 on 2011-07-18 13:09:10 GMT from United States)
Both distro's are minialistic and have problems that I haven't seen fixed yet. I am waiting for the next release of both to see what is going on. Gnome 3 works great on my laptop with 'Intel' graphics chipset. I'll keep it there. But on the desktop nothing but issues with ATI and Nvidia graphic cards. I'm presently using Fedora 15 KDE on one system and Kubuntu KDE on another. KDE seems to be the only viable alternative for me at the moment. I can only wait and see what the futures holds both of them. .
19 • PCLinuxOS (by dragonmouth on 2011-07-18 13:12:45 GMT from United States)
@tdockery97:
If you like PCLinuxOS, you may be able to correct your video problems by creating an xorg.conf file containing the settings you want. While an xorg.conf file is no longer created by the install process, if one is present, it will be read during boot.
I have been using PCLOS for the past couple of years. I liked the rolling release updating of the system. However, shortly before version 2011.06 was officially released, a major update of 400+ packages was made available to users of older versions. After I applied those updates, I found that most of the appearance and usability changes I have made over the years were wiped out by the update. For example, like tdockery97, I have had resolution issues with PCLOS so I created an xorg.conf file to take care of those issues. The update process deleted that xorg file without asking me whether I want it deleted or not. In essence, it was not an update, it was a fresh install of 2011.06.
My problem with that is not that I had been forced to install 2011.06 but the arrogant assumptions of the distro developers that they know better what I want that I do and forcing those assumptions on me. In their opinion, I should not be using a 1280x1024 or 1152x768 resolution, but 1360x768. In my opinion, that sounds too much like the attitude of that company in Redmond. Therefore, GOOD BYE PCLinuxOS.
20 • PCLOS LXDE version of June 2011 compared with December 2010 (by cai eng on 2011-07-18 13:30:32 GMT from United States)
one_beerhunter wrote: "I would suggest running "XFdrake" as SU to fix your resolution issue."
Thank you for this comment. I will try your suggestion.
As I noted in my review of the newest LXDE version, there is a flaw in the spectacular Mandrake Control Center, compared with the LXDE version of December 2010:
Invoking "trial" with the December 2010 version, enables the user to verify that the resolution works as advertised, however, in the newest version, "trial" is absent. GONE.
Until fixed, I urge folks to continue to use the December version of LXDE, it is slightly slower (assuming one has updated all packages, browsers, and so on), about 7% slower on my tests, but, for me, increased speed at the cost of reliability is not a desirable feature.
CAI ENG
21 • PCLinuxOS 2011.6 lxde edition (by Willie Green on 2011-07-18 13:37:56 GMT from United States)
@ Barista Uno
I also installed the lxde edition...
The installation procedure itself went fine, but Xorg bombed when I tried to boot up.
I don't believe this is PCLinuxOS' fault... I blame it on my older graphics card: nVidia NV17 (GeForce4 MX440) running in a Deskpro PIII-800.
Yeah... I know..... But I've always been very happy with how PCLinuxOS performed on these older machines... so it came as a disappointment that this installation bombed.
22 • @19 • PCLinuxOS (by Saleem Khan on 2011-07-18 13:41:24 GMT from Pakistan)
PCLinuxOS is a user-friendly and a good desktop distribution for home users with arrogant developers . I ignore their arrogance and have enjoyed the distro always , many pcs at my office and home are running PCLinuxOS for years now. Every project has got some drawbacks , PCLinuxOS is extremly good so I do not care about this one drawback that it carries with it .
Regards,
23 • PCLinuxOS Releases CLI iso! (by Dragon_Eustace on 2011-07-18 14:10:21 GMT from Ireland)
Yo peeps have you heard that PCLinuxOS releases CLI iso? I just read about it here http://andrzejl.no-ip.org:10101/wordpress/2011/07/16/need-a-suuuper-uuuultra-liiiight-pclinuxos-iso-check-out-pcli-nox/ sounds like a good thing!
24 • rolling releases versus repository size (#19) (by jack on 2011-07-18 14:23:04 GMT from Canada)
I hope someone can do the numbers for me
Assume that I am a developer who finds a bug in his app and corrects it----if the OS has a repository of thousands how can he/she find the time to check his correction against every single app; never mind possible synergy effects amongst multiple apps?
25 • Fine distributions (by Barnabyh on 2011-07-18 14:40:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
PCLinuxOS is a fine distribution. I used the 2007 release for more than twio years on two PC's and regard that as the peak of this distribution, although I admit to not having tried the recent ones. It updated perfectly during this time.
But if you have the time/inclination and knowledge to adapt Slackware or Arch, perhaps via Archbang as a solid base to get X straight away, then there isn't much to gain from PCLOS and some flexibility to loose. It's nice to have Synaptic and the control center though, for all the old Mandriva fans, and particularly the last does make things easier.
Re. the attitude, can't comment on this, the forum posts I saw were all friendly, but then again I never experienced a problem and only went to their forum twice without posting anything, although registered.
But if you think about it, every project that is not governed by a true community has to make decisions, and they will always rub somebody the wrong way, particularly if it's perceived as a more or less one man show. In the end it's a self selecting crowd.
The links on the desktop to install language packs, office and so on are a bit much handholding IMO, but then that's the sort of users the distro is targeting so fair enough. Apparently they're also holding polls on this and which applications to include, so they take input from end users.
26 • Addendum (by Barnabyh on 2011-07-18 14:45:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Even distributions that are governed by a community council have to make decisions...after long discussion.
27 • @21: Geforce4MX 440 (by cba on 2011-07-18 14:51:19 GMT from Germany)
It is not your graphics chip, which is responsible for that, it is nouveau (as a result of NVidias strict policy not to publish any form of hardware documentation).
My Nforce2 chipset features a Geforce4MX 440 onboard graphics chip (NV 18) and it does not work with nouveau either.
But nv works as well as the proprietary nvidia driver (96 series).
I would suggest that you boot up a new Fedora Live CD and if the newest Fedora still contains this bug then you should file a Fedora bug report.
Fedora/Red Hat seems to be the only place throughout all Linux distributions where such a bug could be solved.
See
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?component=xorg-x11-drv-nouveau&product=Fedora
and
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=679366
for the NV18 bug.
28 • PCLOS 64 BIT....... (by Jusaskin on 2011-07-18 15:01:56 GMT from United States)
When i asked on their forum i got flamed, so I will ask again here. Any information on the 64 bit release?
29 • Linux distros (by Alwin on 2011-07-18 15:05:33 GMT from United States)
How about Linux disto stop been distros, but be operating systems?
Why not an operating system with the main parts, but without office, disk-burning, music playing, etc programs, but with repos, where one can choose which one to use? When we download any program, won't that program match the hardware, so it would work better than universal distros?
30 • PCLinuxOS Magazine (by pivoron on 2011-07-18 15:07:49 GMT from United States)
I have recently installed PCLinuxOS LXDE, installation went without problems. The review article was good, but one item not mentioned is the PCLinuxOS-Magazine, which I discovered after installing the OS.
I know the magazine is not a distro, but it has some nice graphics and very good articles on configuration of many Linux aspects. Well done.
31 • @3 PU-IAS? (by Dimitri on 2011-07-18 15:09:42 GMT from United States)
First, a standard disclaimer: I am not currently, nor have I ever been affiliated with Princeton University or IAS. :-)
From PU-IAS's (very sparse) Web site:
Custom Red Hat® Distribution and Mirror. A project of members of the computing staff of Princeton University and the Institute for Advanced Study.
and:
This project was started long before CentOS or other projects were available. Even if you do not install the core distribution, the Addons, Computational and Unsupported repositories may be of use to you. The Addons repository contains additional packages not included in a stock Red Hat distribution. The Computational repository also includes additional packages, however, these packages are specific to scientific computing. The Unsupported repository is a place where one time packages are put, they are unsupported and may change frequently.
As I said before, it may be worth your time to take a look.
Dimitri
32 • RH Clones (by Hassle Mc.Auliffe on 2011-07-18 15:56:47 GMT from Ireland)
I hate to say it, yes we have Cent and we have Scientific, and yes we have PUIAS, but there's another RH clone : Oracle Linux, and yes, known here .... and there :
http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/linux/index.html
By the way, I run PCLinuxOS, very happy with it.
regards
Hassle
33 • PCLinuxOS (by Jose Mirles on 2011-07-18 16:03:00 GMT from United States)
I have been using PCLinuxOS off and on for several years now, in between using Mepis, VectorLinux and Mandriva. I have always came back to PCLinuxOS. Their forums are among the most friendly and the distro has worked on my Desktops and laptops without problems.
I have asked about the 64 bit version and was told that Tex is still compiling applications for it. No word on when it will be ready. Tex isn't releasing anything until he is satisfied with it.
I do know I have never seen anyone get "flamed" in the forums. The answer may not be to your liking, but "flamed?"
Perhaps, I have been lucky in that it has always worked without issue on my PC's. Still, I have installed it on many PC's and rarely have had issues. When i do come up to an issue I cannot resolve, I search the forums and usually find the answers. I did require assistance on an issue and the answers were polite and on target.
For those that had difficulties in the forums, perhaps it is the way you asked the questions?
34 • PCLinuxOS (by HogRider on 2011-07-18 16:14:25 GMT from United States)
I am somewhat of a Linux newbie although I did always download distros once in a while over the 10 years just to play with the for a little. A couple of month ago I decided to get serious and put Linux onto my HP-9700 Laptop and keep it there permanently. This caused me to go into a download frenzy where I ended up trying at least the top 20 distros listed on this site and also some awkward ones after seeing reviews on youtube etc. No matter what I did there was always something about them that bothered me - either the package manager, sound problems, the way the fonts were displayed and many other little quirks. Last week I installed PCLinuxOS and I have to say, that everything on this OS worked perfectly. I have been using it every day and not ran into a single bug. I absolutely love it and can highly recommed it to less experienced Linux users, who want an operating system that just works out of the box! Thanks for reading.
35 • "Clones and themes" & Lotus Symphony (by Sean Duncan on 2011-07-18 16:16:26 GMT from United States)
Jesse said "I find that endearing at a time when so many developers are putting out clones with different themes." --- I couldn't agree more. So maybe DW should consider devoting more time to the independents. If you consider that Ubuntu itself is just a clone with a theme, then wouldn't each of the Ubuntu clones just be a clone of a clone with a theme of a theme???
Re - Symphony code being contributed to Apache -- Please. I mean, have you downloaded and tried it? I've tried every version they've released, including multiple betas - I mean really TRIED to get them to create basic letters and reports and spreadsheets. It's never worked for me without crashing and without formatting disasters.
36 • PCLinuxOS (by LinuXFroG on 2011-07-18 16:36:19 GMT from United States)
First off, let me say this: PCLinuxOS is a great OS, never had an issue with it. Just isn't my cup of tea.
As for their people on the forums, well, that's a different matter indeed. Their social skills a few years ago, towards newbies, wasn't the friendliest and it really turned me off to the OS as a whole.
I personally have not had any issues at their forums. The few questions I have asked, I received excellent, precise answers. Very informative.
I recently visited their forums after a year and things are much different there. Not only are the newbies treated with respect, even the idiots and goof balls are treated with a modicum of respect.
At my site, if we get idiots and goof balls, there is NO respect given to them. We deal with them with strict and if they continue, they are gone. So all in all, the PCLOS forums have become very nice indeed.
So, if someone got flamed at their forums, which I really don't think happened, then they probably went beyond the call of being an idiot and deserved what they got.
Come to my site and act like an idiot, you will definitely get treated like one.
Tex and the crew have done a great job and deserve recognition for all their hard work in dealing with the scum of the net.
The PCLOS forums have changed over the years and should be commended. I never once thought I would have anything good to say about the PCLOS forums, but that time is here. They have done a great job.
Froggy
37 • Why does it take so long to build a RHEL clone? (by Scott Dowdle on 2011-07-18 16:58:45 GMT from United States)
#8 & #13 - It takes a LOT of work to take RHEL source .rpm packages and turn them into a distro. There is not a complete build environment for the distro. mock is what is primarily used I believe... and that will build one package at a time... if you know what packages to build, in what order. There are a small handful of packages that have build issues that must be figured out as they weren't necessarily built against library versions present within the distro. So to answer your question, no there isn't a script that you can execute on a directory of source packages to turn them into a RHEL clone.
There were also a ton of changes between RHEL 5 and RHEL 6... changes in package groups... and figuring out all of the backend stuff takes quite a bit of effort.
To simplify it, the devel is in the details and there are a lot of details.
I don't say that to justify the time it took CentOS 6 to come out.
Oracle took more than two months themselves.
To address the issue of 'Red Hat's "obfuscated" kernel source'. That was in no way an issue. It doesn't affect free RHEL clone builders much because they are trying to duplicate the RHEL kernel as closely as possible. Oracle is more than a clone maker and the change in the publicly available kernel source code from Red Hat is more aimed at being less friendly to Oracle's support department. How can I say that? I asked Troy Dawson if Red Hat's change impacted SL at all... and he said no. (http://www.montanalinux.org/interview-troy-dawson-scientific-linux-june2011.html)
38 • LibreOffice vs OpenOffice code restriction (by Marc Magi on 2011-07-18 17:00:32 GMT from Belize)
"...GNU LGPL (LibreOffice) pushes to keep software free, putting more requirements on the developer, where the Apache License (OpenOffice) takes a more "do whatever you want" approach to freedom. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this means OpenOffice's code can be accepted into LibreOffice, but the reverse is not true..."
What? Come Again? The Apache license grants a "do whatever you want approach" yet OpenOffice is the Productivity Suite with the more restrictive license? Perhaps it's only contrary to me because I'm still having my first coffee of the day, but that seems completely wrong.
39 • RE: 37 (by Landor on 2011-07-18 17:12:01 GMT from Canada)
I thought I'd throw this idea out there Scott. I actually enjoyed your Fedora screencast tutorial and thought it was very well done. Now I know it's a completely different effort altogether, but have you ever considered doing one, or possibly in parts, for building an RHEL Clone?
I know I'd appreciate the effort in helping the community in an area where there's pretty well little in the way of information on the topic.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
40 • PCLinuxOS (by rob on 2011-07-18 17:15:01 GMT from United States)
PCLOS just doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
The KDE environment is smooth and responsive. If you don't like KDE, feel free to pick from XFCE, LXDE, GNOME, e17, openbox, or any of the other window managers sitting in Synaptic. All are produced by community members who have a passion for their choice of desktop environment. I've been using PCLOS + LXDE for months without a single issue.
The community is excellent. The forums are friendly and helpful. There is a community magazine released every month loaded with interesting articles and information about a variety of things.
Everything works out of the box, the repositories are fairly large, and software is up-to-date.
After the Unity fiasco, I stopped using Ubuntu to "convert" people to Linux and started using PCLOS. The results are astounding. When I mentioned ubuntu people gave me weird looks and changed the subject. With PCLOS I've had people whip out USB sticks there on the spot for me to install it. It really is an easy-to-use distro that new Linux users enjoy.
The "arrogant" developers aren't arrogant at all. I've seen them act in a way that others may perceive as arrogant, but only in response to negative posts, like threatening to switch to Brown Frown. They put a lot of work into this distro and they are all volunteers-- if you don't like it, just use another disro!
All that said, there are some quirks that affect individual users, like resolution and whatnot.
41 • I'm Slack and I'm proud (by Microlinux on 2011-07-18 17:30:14 GMT from France)
Yeah, happy birthday Slackware! My first Linux distro back in 2001, and the distro I finally came back to after a few years of Debian, CentOS, Ubuntu and some others. Solid as a rock, with a nice release policy which goes something like once-in-a-year-but-only-when-it's-ready, Slackware is now one of the rare distributions that doesn't desperately include every shiny new feature to "improve" the system until it's almost unusable (no names, no flames). I'm currently in the process of migrating all my company's services (root server, SOHO server, desktop clients) to Slackware, and what can a poor boy say? Linux is fun again. By the way, slackpkg, SlackBuilds.org and sbopkg make life with Slackware *much* easier now than it was a few years ago. Last but not least, Slackware benefits from a competent user community. True, the average USENET poster on alt.os.linux.slackware may be a bearded UNIX geek who eats small children for breakfast, but if you can get used to the rough tone, you'll find help rather quickly :o)
42 • Licenses (by Jesse on 2011-07-18 17:32:17 GMT from Canada)
>> "What? Come Again? The Apache license grants a "do whatever you want approach" yet OpenOffice is the Productivity Suite with the more restrictive license? Perhaps it's only contrary to me because I'm still having my first coffee of the day, but that seems completely wrong."
You're looking at it backward. OpenOffice has the license with fewer restrictions so developers can do just about anything they want with the code. Such as put that code into a product with a more strict license. LibreOffice uses a more strict license, so developers can't do just anything they want with the code, such as put it in a less restrictive product.
Code can go from having few restrictions to having more, but once it has more restrictions, it can't go back to "do whatever you want". So, yes, OpenOffice has the more "do what you want" license and that prevents them from accepting in code with a stricter license.
43 • pclos (by fernbap on 2011-07-18 17:55:24 GMT from Portugal)
My main issue with pclos is that i find it the ugliest of the top distros. By far.
PCLOS E17 is the ugliest implementation of E17 i ever saw, which is more than "just a matter of taste". If you chose E17 you will want a beautiful desktop.
44 • PCLinuxOS (by Boss Hogg on 2011-07-18 17:59:22 GMT from United States)
Nice, good working distro..... but, the forum is just a little bit "hillbilly" for my liking.
If you want a quick result to any problems, package suggestions/updates or even improvements/suggestions, then suck up as fast as possible.
1) Heap endless praise about the distro and it's forum evangelists and developers.
2) repeat above
3) Plead very nice and graciously (see above) explaining how you are converting the world and his dog to the great religion.
4) If that fails, a public pledge of big donation (and membership to the bandwagon) hopefully will succeed.
If that fails, stick to any large, well funded global distribution would be a good choice.
45 • PCLinuxOS (by skin27 on 2011-07-18 18:03:35 GMT from Netherlands)
I used PCLOS for a couple of years. I always find it a solid base and finish the rest myself with the help of the forum (which is very friendly in my experience). PCLOS have always been a more conservative distro (stayed long on KDE3 for example). In some areas (like the 64 bit issue and the package manager) it maybe lags behind too much. As Carlos said it would be better if MaiGaia and PCLOS would work togehter to get things going forward.
46 • Easiest distro for users (by Alwin on 2011-07-18 18:04:21 GMT from United States)
Easiest distro for users is PCLinuxOs as many here write, but Macbuntu-iso done by person in Scandinavia. Link is: http://www.oslike.se/
47 • Easiest distro for users (by Alwin on 2011-07-18 18:06:30 GMT from United States)
Easiest distro for users is not PCLinuxOs as many here write, but Macbuntu-iso done by person in Scandinavia. Link is: http://www.oslike.se/
Sorry for the double post. I forgot one word 'not'
48 • Slackware avoids sef-destruction (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-18 18:10:57 GMT from Spain)
Microlinux wrote:
---------------------------------
Slackware is now one of the rare distributions that doesn't desperately include every shiny new feature to "improve" the system until it's almost unusable.
---------------------------------
The main reason I tried Slackware was that somebody told me: "Slackware is not destroying itself in order to convert more users".
I posted last week what I think of all that distros that are released half-cooked just in order to get users. I am not against the distributions that like living in the bleeding edge, but the problem is that many of them DO NOT WARN YOU. When you use Debian Sid, you know that you can have problems because there are warnings all across the documentation. In contrast, many other distros include inmature stuff and sell themselves as "ready for productive use". They like living in the bleeding edge, but leave the bleeding up to you!
49 • Lubuntu and compiz (by Emery on 2011-07-18 18:12:12 GMT from United States)
@Carlos Felipe:
I've used Compiz on Peppermint One, Ice, and Two, all of which are Lubuntu-based. Just get it from Synaptic and use compiz --replace in the terminal to get started with it.
50 • PCLinux (by slpicker on 2011-07-18 18:26:57 GMT from United States)
I have to say that PCLinux LDXE is the only distro that will boot live, install and run on any machine that I try it on Period!
With MINT LDXE not far behind, And EVERTHING works. It is the fastest, rivaling slitaz and puppy. Oh Im downloading Macbuntu to give it a spin! thanks.
51 • pclinuxos 2011.6 (by t bradley "preecher" on 2011-07-18 18:28:58 GMT from United States)
i have pclinuxos 2011.6 currently installed on 4 machines (thinkpad laptop about 5 years old, toshiba laptop 2 years old, acer netbook 8 months old & a 2 year old desktop). install on every system went smoothly & without any problem. after install completed i immediately did a system restart & then went into synaptic package manager & did the update & after updates were complete i did another system restart (all this only took somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 minutes so its not like you are setting deskbound for a couple of hours like in many of the other distros ive tried). the libre office install script worked perfect on the thinkpad- i just havent tried it on the other machines yet as i dont have a need very often for office programs.
the programs included in the install fit my bill to a "t" as they are the programs i use/prefer- however this my vary by user & synaptic is always just a click away.
in each of my installs everything works as it should & i would like to add that this has been the reason i have been a pclinuxos user since the latter part of 2006. in all those years i have never had any problem with any install over an assortment of different machines.
and the pclinuxos community is one of the friendliest & most knowledgeable that i've encountered. everything from the forums to the channel.
in the end all i can say is how things do on my end & on my end everything works as it should and some things run cooler & quieter than in many of the other distros ive tried(in pclinuxos my laptops dont get anywhere near as hot as they did in the other distros & in pclinuxos i never hear my harddrives making that constant clicking noise they always seem to make in 2 of the other major distros) and i know that is a good thing.
all in all pclinuxos is a very good distro & is the distro responsible for me being ms free since 2006 & i give its developers & community 2 thumbs up for bringing forth such a consistantly stable & usable distro over the years, release after release.
t bradley "preecher"
52 • XFCE (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-18 18:43:07 GMT from Ireland)
PCLinuxOS XFCE Phoenix Edition 2011-07 is now available for download
53 • XFCE (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-18 18:44:29 GMT from Ireland)
http://www.pclinuxos.com/?p=1358
54 • PCLinuxOS. Gets my vote as best modern distro. (by Tony on 2011-07-18 18:45:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
PCLinuxOS got me off Windows about 5 years ago. Occasionally I will try a different distro when changing PCs but invariably come back to PCLinuxOS for a number of reasons. 1. It just works and is stable. 2. Excellent hardware detection. 3. Friendly and helpful forum. 4. Professional quality magazine.
The main reason I have ventured to other distros for my main desktop was speed. Previously Sidux was very fast (Nearly twice as fast as PCLinuxOS on the same machine) and stable but rigid in the use of "Ice" this and "Ice" that which were not fully compatible or well behind on updates. Having said that I much prefer stability to speed and I think with the latest kernel there have been some more improvements. Thanks Tex!
Puppy Linux is also excellent especially for older hardware and it runs unbelievably fast on my quad core 3gb AMD. It opens Abi word in about 1/3 of a second.
55 • OpenOffice; Sabayon (by Joseph on 2011-07-18 18:48:37 GMT from United States)
It's insane - the FOSS kind of insane - to have two near-identical office suites. We're never going to build a car the current FOSS way... we end up with no engine and fifty tires. The LibreOffice folks started this mess by forking OpenOffice for political/scaremongering reasons. They should be adult enough to close up shop and work on OpenOffice. I fear they won't do this because "software must be FREE!!!!". Sigh. I think there were about three of us in the world warning this would happen, including advising distros not to jump to LibreOffice right away, but no one listened because "software must be FREE!!!!". I dream of a world where if someone doesn't like the menu layout of a word processor, she changes the menu layout rather than creating a new word processor from scratch; where FOSS people work on things we need rather than things that are "fun" or "cool"; where people are more inclined to add their whizbang idea to the Firefox codebase than produce a plugin; where documentation is viewed as more important than the one millionth Ubuntu respin.
Regarding #4 and Sabayon: Sabayon does have problems (too much rolling of the rolling release, too little testing and polish) but not fitting on a CD-RW isn't one of the problems. "When will these folks listen?!" To what? 1999? Computers have come with DVD drives, opposed to CD drives, as standard for probably close to a decade now. Neither Microsoft nor Apple have been forced into bankruptcy because their OSes don't fit on a CD. Between VirtualBox for virtual installs and UNetBootIn for physical ones, you don't even need an optical drive at all. Why should distros be striving to gut their installation media? I'd rather have, say, one OpenSUSE install DVD, which allows me to install KDE, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE or server versions from one disk, than multiple CD versions. The larger the install medium, the more chance the install includes things like less-common WiFi drivers for laptops.
56 • Re. 4: Sabayon vs. Puppy? (by uz64 on 2011-07-18 19:10:06 GMT from United States)
Puppy is cool for some of the things that it does, it really did come up with some unique ideas... years ago. But hell will freeze over before I use it (or recommend it as) a full-time OS. I could only recommend it for use on older machines, or where the user just doesn't want an OS installed and cares for speed above all else. But there are plenty of live distros (CD-ROM, DVD-ROM and flash storage) that--although they're more heavyweight, often meant for hard drive install, and don't have all of the unique features of Puppy--I would still recommend over Puppy. Its configuration irks me. Its tendency of continuing to run as root after all these years with no proper way to get regular users going is just nuts, and you should not have to visit some site to find out the tricks to get this working. Its entire theme just reeks of "did a kid do this?" Oh, and did I mention--I hate dogs?
Sabayon is... well, on the other end of the spectrum. IMO, it's too bloated in general, trying to be too many things at once. It has practically *everything* installed, by default. This can be both good or bad, but in general bad due to the simple fact that menus get cluttered with duplicate items and--more importantly--its performance suffers as a result. Too much crap on the disc, too many services running by default. Still, if someone had the CPU power and extra memory required to run this one, and Puppy and Sabayon were the last two distros on the face of the planet... I'd recommend Sabayon. Sorry, but it's far more "user-friendly" and its interface just makes more sense.
IMO, neither one of these distros is ideal, but both have their places. I respect them both for what they are, seeing what they are both targeting and trying to accomplish. It'd be nice if Puppy would allow the creation of a regular user as well as a root password before even starting X for the first time.
57 • PCLinuxOS Polished (by Tony on 2011-07-18 19:28:01 GMT from United States)
I found PCLinuxOS well polished from the boot to the desktop to the application splash screens when compared to Mandriva and Mageia. Sorry Jesse I have to disagree on that.
58 • Re: 44 (by rob on 2011-07-18 19:38:56 GMT from United States)
"Nice, good working distro..... but, the forum is just a little bit "hillbilly" for my liking.
If you want a quick result to any problems, package suggestions/updates or even improvements/suggestions, then suck up as fast as possible.
1) Heap endless praise about the distro and it's forum evangelists and developers.
2) repeat above
3) Plead very nice and graciously (see above) explaining how you are converting the world and his dog to the great religion.
4) If that fails, a public pledge of big donation (and membership to the bandwagon) hopefully will succeed.
If that fails, stick to any large, well funded global distribution would be a good choice."
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.
Forum members praise PCLOS and its developers because it is a quality OS that meets all of their needs. It's not called The Distro-Hopper Stopper for nothing.
That said, you are probably one of the people who ended their question with "I'm thinking of converting to ubuntu!"
PCLOS is not the Brown Frown. It does not try to be the Brown Frown. The fact that for some reason Ubuntu is the comparison for EVERY distro is irritating and the forum members, including myself, are sick of it. You will be informed to piss off if you feel the need to express your loyalty to Buggy Bug or whatever they are calling it these days.
They even had to put "Ubuntu" in the word filter to avoid Shuttleworth fanboy trolls coming in from search engines. If you want to use Ubuntu, go use Ubuntu, and stay away from the PCLOS forums unless you can ask questions in a mature fashion.
59 • PCLinuxOS e17 (by djohnston on 2011-07-18 20:29:56 GMT from United States)
@fernbap
43 • pclos (by fernbap on 2011-07-18 17:55:24 GMT from Portugal)
"My main issue with pclos is that i find it the ugliest of the top distros. By far.
PCLOS E17 is the ugliest implementation of E17 i ever saw, which is more than "just a matter of taste". If you chose E17 you will want a beautiful desktop."
Agust does all the themes for the e17 edition. His themes are in use on nearly every e17 based distro. You can find them prominently displayed on http://e17-stuff.org/, as well as other e17-related theme sites.
So, let me get this straight. Your beef is with Agust's themes, which are also the same ones used in other e17 distros?
60 • PCLinuxOS (by dragonmouth on 2011-07-18 22:08:30 GMT from United States)
Many of you so valiantly defending the Linux developers are using Linux because you got sick and tired of Windows developers' "WE know best what's good for you" attitude. Why do you now accept that attitude from Linux developers when you did not accept from M$?! Please don't tell me about the decisions developers "have to" make. I was a software developer for 35 years. Arrogance and overweening is arrogance and overweening, no matter what the O/S.
61 • @59 (by fernbap on 2011-07-18 22:55:17 GMT from Portugal)
i am obviously talking about the default theme you get in the live cd or a freshly installed distro. I know there are many themes, and that i can chang them easily.
However, the default theme is an important part of the distro image, and every PCLOS release i tried had an awfull default theme, with one notable exception, the gnome theme about 2 years ago.
In the case of E17, people chose E17 if they are looking for a beautiful yet light desktop, so the default theme is even more important.
I can excuse an ugly default theme on gnome or kde, but excusing an ugly default theme on a E17 release is harder.
Anyway, it's just my opinion...
62 • PCLinuxOS (by exploder on 2011-07-18 23:20:21 GMT from United States)
I have been running PCLinuxOS KDE for 4 months now with no problems of any kind. PCLinuxOS is the only distribution that works perfectly with my nvidea graphics cards. I love the new brushed metal default artwork, it is very consistent and professionally done. The default applications seem ideal to me because they are the applications I use everyday. The default tools are excellent and very organized. I love that PCLinuxOS is a rolling release and I always have the most current versions of my favorite applications.
PCLinuxOS KDE has got me to stop distro hopping and I never feel bored with it because it's a rolling release. I enjoy the community and the monthly music thread has got me interested in collecting music again! I feel that with PCLinuxOS I can enjoy using my computer rather than spending my time fixing things and I really appreciate that.
I enjoy the humor on the forum and the community is very nice. I have always admired the work Texstar does and he has a terrific sense of humor. I am glad I made the switch to PCLinuxOS 4 months ago and it has a permanent place on my hard drive!
63 • @59, @58, pclos (by fernbap on 2011-07-18 23:20:35 GMT from Portugal)
"So, let me get this straight. Your beef is with Agust's themes, which are also the same ones used in other e17 distros?"
No, my beef is with the default themes with all PCLOS releases. The default theme is part of the image of the distro, and an important part of it.
I know default themes can be replaced, but that is not the point.
In the case of E17, people want if if they are looking for a light yet beautiful desktop, full of eyecandy. That is the E17 niche.
An ugly E17 default theme is even more important than for other DEs, because people expect a beautiful theme from E17.
Of course, "ugly" or "beautiful" are always subjective, so that's just my opinion...
"Forum members praise PCLOS and its developers because it is a quality OS that meets all of their needs."
Need i even comment on this?
64 • PCLinuxOS (by exploder on 2011-07-19 00:03:28 GMT from United States)
One last thing, no review influences my decision on what I have found to be the very best distribution out there. PCLinuxOS works where so many have failed for me. PCLinuxOS has stopped years of distro hopping for me and I am thankful for all the hard work that goes into PCLinuxOS.
65 • PCLinuxOS and some comments (by Crow on 2011-07-19 00:23:02 GMT from Mexico)
I read the review and read again and I don't understand, for me PCLinuxOS is the easiest distro and I'm from social sciences, not programmer or something like that, I stopped distro hopping about 4 years ago and the only changes I do is between DE's, PCLOS has a lot :-)
Why I don't understand? my two kids use regularly PCLinuxOS and the 14 years old just yesterday finished a remaster for his friends with all the software he thinks they gonna need when they go back to school, made the .iso and put it in a USB Memory stick which works live, all that using only the software and scripts the repositories provide. Of course, he use to install PCLOS without problems.
The forums are full of people eager to help but nobody wants to be mistreated, if someone acts like a jerk, expect something in return, btw, fernbap there are other e17 distros, go find whatever you like and stop whining about the theme, for me the work Agust do is outstanding . The magazine is very good, full of informative articles and other things.
Jesse Smith please read the basics: install, open synaptic, reload, update full, maybe restart KDE. Then you can do whatever you want., remember, is a rolling release, updates are important.
66 • PCLinuxOS KDE (by exploder on 2011-07-19 00:36:54 GMT from United States)
My 6 year old son uses PCLinuxOS KDE on his computer with no problems. How much more user friendly can you get?
67 • @58, the reason people compare every distro to Ubuntu... (by Julian on 2011-07-19 00:38:11 GMT from United States)
is that it's the "distro to beat". debian, ubuntu, fedora, and their derivatives have excellent compatibility with a wide variety of software and hardware. when you're talking about an operating system, there's not much higher praise than "it is compatible with things I want"
68 • PUIAS (by ladislav on 2011-07-19 01:14:02 GMT from Taiwan)
PUIAS Linux is now also on DistroWatch:
http://distrowatch.com/puias
It looks like a solid project that has been around for a while, very fast with releases. They don't provide a full install DVD, just a small boot (netinst) CD, so you need to install it over the Internet. They also maintain some extra package repositories.
69 • PCLinuxOS (by Jesse on 2011-07-19 01:29:08 GMT from Canada)
>> "I read the review and read again and I don't understand,...Jesse Smith please read the basics: install, open synaptic, reload, update full, maybe restart KDE. Then you can do whatever you want., remember, is a rolling release, updates are important."
I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following what you don't understand. While I was using the distro I kept it up to date, so I'm not sure why you'd bring this up? Of course updates are important, but what does that have to do with my review?
70 • pclos (by fernbap on 2011-07-19 01:46:44 GMT from Portugal)
"for me the work Agust do is outstanding"
yes, i agree it is outstanding. I greatly respect him for what he does.
The point is that pclos always choses the worst.
pclos fixation with black is just a signal of amateurism. It makes it look like noone knows how to use color. Every designer knows that black and grey themes are the "easyway out" of a designer. Easy to do, but nothing to offer as well. Makes pclos look like it's run by a bunch of teenagers.
Keep my opinion for what it's worth....
71 • @ 69 • PCLinuxOS (by Alvin on 2011-07-19 02:41:29 GMT from United States)
LibreOffice Manager has been updated to 3.4.1 and is now available in your Synaptic Package Manager as an update. Please update to this version before trying to install LibreOffice suite on a new installation as it will pull in the latest official version of LibreOffice.
72 • @69 @70 (by Crow on 2011-07-19 03:03:51 GMT from Mexico)
In your review you mention each step but never say you updated properly before tinkering with the system.
"I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following what you don't understand." probably because you take it out of context, I was saying that if a 14 years old kid install, remaster and make live USB memory sticks (second paragraph), is not rocket science. Oh and he install and configure since he was 12 years old. It can't be more user friendly.
@fernbap Once your respect for Agust is established (which was my only interest) and the themes are from Agust I think is a matter of taste which is obvious we don't share; I don't like the name calling game but I think the PCLinuxOS Teenagers will thank you for that concept ;-)
73 • PCLinuxOS in not the best distro! (by Alwin on 2011-07-19 05:56:15 GMT from United States)
There appears lot of PCLinuxOS fanboys here, who fall over each other the praise it, but it is NOT the easiest for users distro, but the one made or remade by a Scandinavian guy - Macbuntu-iso the link is Link is: http://www.oslike.se/
Try it and then praise PCLinuxOS. It is a good distro, but not the best.
74 • PClinuxOS, pros and cons (by GoustiFruit on 2011-07-19 07:43:14 GMT from France)
@46, 47, 73: please stop spamming.
I'm a fan of PCLinuxOS, it's the only Distribution that has a permanent place on my HDD... Best technically speaking distribution, stable, up to date, the rolling concept is the best one, I wished Mageia would chose it too... oh, too bad, I won't spend my time on it :'-(
Everything works with my PCLinuxOS system, a few little bugs here and there but nothing compared to other distros. KDE is fast (my hardware too I must confess !) and playing Flash videos fullscreen isn't choppy like in any other Linuxes.
On the bad points: default look is - for the least - debatable. Some like it... I don't, I just find it so 90s, so old-Macs-alike, so Mint-alike. That project really need some beautification. Huge fonts (does Texstar have a eyes problem ?) that keep resetting after doing some root manipulations.
And the forums/community are just *bad*. 44 is perfectly right. Look at all and any posts from Texstar, whatever he is writing. And then look at the comments under: all fanboys going "LOL", "OMFG", "you're so amazing", etc. They are all bullied, so afraid to displease the king. And if you ask a question without going through all that submission scheme, crime de lèse-majesté, get prepared to be flamed, or better censored (because no trace should remain of any grievance against the king).
@7 "I don't know why the Mageia's community doesn't seek to join the community of PCLinuxOS. It would be great"
Yes, if only the "community" existed on PCLinuxOS.
75 • Aptosid (by mechanic on 2011-07-19 08:58:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
I see Aptosid is mentioned in the new releases roundup but no comments. This is supposed to be a bleeding edge distro using the Debian unstable flavour as a base. Again a rolling release (new bugs every update) system. But why oh why are they stuck with this "drop to a console (no X running) and use apt-get to update the system" mantra? In their handbook they tell us that this is to prevent hang ups on updates which might modify the libraries or kill X, but how come every other distro manages to update itself without having to drop out of the GUI? And apt-get is so 1980s even Synaptic is getting out of date these days. They even deprecate aptitude, the Debian favourite. A one-star distro?
76 • What if Oracle chose to close OpenOffice.Org? (by LuxPro on 2011-07-19 10:16:51 GMT from India)
How is it that everyone is forgetting that LibreOffice forked after Oracle suddenly pulled the plug on OpenSolaris and before they would make any comment on OpenOffice.Org. It must be remembered that everyone was holding up their breath for word from Oracle on OpenOffice.org. It is a free world... so I guess some people chose to fork instead of stopping to breathe. A free office suite on a par with OpenOffice is just not there not yet. The stakes were too high to digest the silence of Oracle.
Now I guess it is too late to go back and say let's us merge LibreOffice and OpenOffice. Once again, Oracle did want they wanted to and the others too did what they wanted too. Nothing wrong here... Just that for some time you will have what appears to be effort duplication and division, but give some time and you'll probably have two great FOSS suites.
77 • sabayon - not completely hopeless? (by gnomic on 2011-07-19 11:08:45 GMT from New Zealand)
From the Sabayon 6 live DVD of Xfce - works OK here on a couple of laptops. Some disparaging comments above - probably every distro has some faults, it certainly seems so from the comments here week by week. I had to modprobe to wake up the bcm4318 wifi on this machine. However, aside from that, it is running OK. The application set on this version seems adequate and close to the norm, includes a full install of LibreOffice 3.4.1 and has Chromium 13. The preceding 5.5 CD edition of Xfce ran well on a P3 600 MHz laptop with 320MB RAM which proves challenging to many distros. Maybe the Sabayon developers need not give up yet?
78 • KNOS, BSD-based secure OS (by Jan on 2011-07-19 11:30:29 GMT from Netherlands)
I stumbled about this info.
http://knosproject.com/info.html
It claims openly to be absolutely secure/safe.
It is based on BSD.
In the Forum of their site there is an item which at a specific virus explains which LINUX-distros are vulnerable, and KNOS not-vulnerable.
I am now downloading the demo.
Jan
79 • @72 (by fernbap on 2011-07-19 12:03:51 GMT from Portugal)
"I don't like the name calling game"
Don't get me wrong. The reason why i said it looked like it was run by a bunch of teenagers is because virtually every teenager passes through a "black phase".
You know, black trousers, black shirt, black boots, black cap, etc. Then they grow a bit more and the black phase ends.
As an example, try browsing through most gaming websites: black, black, black. The darker the better.
That was the image i wanted to convey.
80 • PCLinuxOS Phoenix XFCE edition (by Harry on 2011-07-19 13:09:52 GMT from United States)
I have downloaded this live CD on two different machines, and both times I received a warning message that the sizes were mis-matched. One says it is 620 megs, and the other is 586 meg. It takes about 12 minutes for the loading progress bar to complete, and then locks up.
81 • PCLinuxOS (by Jesse on 2011-07-19 13:29:01 GMT from Canada)
@71,72
I think I see where the confusion is. You're thinking I didn't update the system and that's why the LibreOffice Manager didn't work? Is that correct? The thing is, I started my review of PCLinuxOS back on June 25. The update for LibreOffice was posted on July 3, toward the end of the experiment. So when I would have performed my updates it would have been prior to 3.4.1 being available. Which is probably where the problem arose, just bad timing.
As I pointed out in the review, a nicer way to deal with major packages like LibreOffice and Firefox is to have them in the repositories so we don't end up with situations like this.
82 • PCLinuxOS Phoenix (by Sproggy on 2011-07-19 13:32:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
@80 ... the idea would be to wait for the mirrors to sync ... might help ... why not download from the primary link ... it is alot slower due to the current amount of traffic but at least you will get the full iso ;)
83 • PUIAS fails (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-19 13:49:51 GMT from Ireland)
Interesting, just downloaded the boot iso of PUIAS ( netinstall ), booted with it, all fine, started install, error : PUIAS cd can't be found .....
Cheers.
84 • PCLinuxOS KDE 2011.6 (by stratus on 2011-07-19 14:29:28 GMT from India)
I installed KDE spin on my Lenovo Ideapad s10, updated more KDE updates from the PcLinuxOS repository. Then I had problem with continous Ksplashx segfault. May be I should have tried xfce distro.
Somebody could write some tips on optimizing PClinuxOS.
I saw extra video drivers, printer drivers are loaded and those messages also appear in the dmesg output. I have removed unwanted drivers using Synaptics. But do get some intitial error/warining message about fb incompatible or something. I thing it has to do with frame buffer video driver extra against the builtin kernel driver.
Anyway, due ksplashx I am doomed and planned to go for another PClinuxOS distro with Xfce4.8.
This time PClinuxOS graphics,display all improved. Hope they will improve further.
85 • 79 E17 (by Tom on 2011-07-19 15:43:36 GMT from United States)
Everyone knows E17 looks better in black. The default look from the authors of Enlightenment use black and grey! There are 3 agust theme packages for PCLOS you can install from Synaptic. You can really dress it up if black and grey is not to your liking.
86 • PCLOS (again) (by rob on 2011-07-19 15:51:24 GMT from United States)
No one claimed PCLOS was perfect, it's just the closest to perfect I've found in the Linux world, at least for me personally. We all have choices here, if you prefer Debian (and I love a good Debian + openbox setup myself), then choose Debian.
I don't like everything about PCLOS. The artwork isn't always appealing. The bull mascot was cheesy. I don't necessarily like the menu system (Jesse mentioned the sub-nesting). But PCLOS is perfect for me anyway.
87 • @60, @76 (by Patrick on 2011-07-19 16:12:44 GMT from United States)
@60
"""Many of you so valiantly defending the Linux developers are using Linux because you got sick and tired of Windows developers' "WE know best what's good for you" attitude. Why do you now accept that attitude from Linux developers when you did not accept from M$?! Please don't tell me about the decisions developers "have to" make. I was a software developer for 35 years. Arrogance and overweening is arrogance and overweening, no matter what the O/S."""
How would you know why I am using Linux? Now there's some arrogance!
I did not get sick and tired of Windows because of a "we know best what's good for you" attitude. I got sick and tired of Windows because of their "we do what's best for US and screw the user" attitude! There's a big difference there.
Linux gives you the freedom to choose what you're going to use--and choice there is plenty! Don't like what one developer is doing? Go somewhere else. There is likely an alternative that will suit you. There isn't? Roll your own. THAT is the freedom you get in Linux. You, as a user, do NOT get the freedom to dictate what a developer should be doing or not. That is only a right you get when you become the developer, then you can decide what should be done. I get sick and tired of users thinking they can demand things and the developers are required to listen to them.
Think about it: for whatever a developer does, he probably gets about half the people praising him and half the people telling him it is a stupid idea. Why should he listen to you telling him it is a stupid idea, and not to the users who are happy with his software? Especially since their thinking is in line with his own thinking? It's just insane to expect him to change what he's doing because some rude people demand he does so, if by doing so he would upset his loyal users who are happy with his work!
I am happy that so many developers are expending themselves in deciding what's good for me. I will not always agree with them, and I may go use an alternative if it suits me better. But I will never assume that they are idiots just because I don't agree with what they're doing. I acknowledge that they're likely more aware of all the issues involved, that they depend on directions taken by the overall ecosystem they're a part of, and that they're likely to make their decisions based on more facts than I'm aware of. Saying anything like "Please don't tell me about the decisions developers "have to" make" is just arrogance in its purest form. How long you were a developer has nothing to do with it and is actually a strike against you since you should know that users are usually not aware of all the trade-offs involved in designing a piece of software, or anything else for that matter.
@76
Very much agreed. Another case of users complaining about what developers "should have done". It is so easy to forget what actually happened. Hindsight is 20/20, like they say. If the LibreOffice backers had known that Oracle would turn over the OpenOffice.org project to the Apache foundation, would they have forked? But then again, if LibreOffice wouldn't have forked, would Oracle ever have turned over OpenOffice.org to the Apache foundation? Unlikely I'd say, but I guess we'll never know.
88 • Austrumi 2.4.0 (by Woody Oaks on 2011-07-19 17:22:54 GMT from United States)
Small, light, and everything right - again.
89 • linux for mobile devices (by JB on 2011-07-19 18:34:04 GMT from United States)
I'd love to see distrowatch start covering linux-for-tablets and linux-for-phones more.
"Bodhi Linux for ARM"... a tablet-PC OS that is compatible with ordinary Debian/Ubuntu software, is a sign of things to come.
Linux is competing as a desktop distro and most users are choosing Windows and OSX over Linux. linux-kernel-based systems became a major player very early in the existence of the smart phone market and linux is showing itself to be hugely successful.
would love to see distrowatch go from covering "linux/BSD on servers/firewalls and desktops" to "linux/BSD on servers/firewalls, desktops, and phones" Linux has a bright future as a desktop OS and part of the reason is all of person-hours and attention that are going in to making great software that servers or phones use.
90 • 74 PCLOS user (by Lynda on 2011-07-19 19:31:14 GMT from Vietnam)
I am a long time PCLOS user and forum member. I have never felt bullied on their forum. The "lol and you're amazing" has nothing to do with catering to the king. Tex is a funny guy and genuinely interested in helping feller users. I can't speak for Tex but I know PCLOS is a primary source of income for him so I can't see him wanting to merge with another distribution.
91 • Snowlinux (by Walter on 2011-07-19 20:12:23 GMT from Canada)
It looks like an interesting distro, although it does need work. Unfortunately, their web page can't be found today, even though it was available yesterday. I would have liked to pose a few questions.
92 • PCLinuxOS "XFCE Phoenix" edition (by Sean Duncan on 2011-07-19 21:28:07 GMT from United States)
I've noticed that distros that focus on the PR angle like Ubuntu, Mint, PCLOS get lots of extra press simply by releasing a new "edition" every few weeks by slapping a different desktop on top of their main release - i.e. Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint XFCE, Mint KDE, PCLOS XFCE Phoenix edition (today's big release). Really stacks the deck against traditional distro maintainers such as the communities behind Fedora, Debian, Mandriva, openSUSE who are putting out all the desktop options at once with the one big release a couple of times a year. Its the difference of getting reviews twice a year in all the big blogs and magazines, compared to getting reviewed 6 to 12 times a year - that's quite a big difference in terms of free advertising.
93 • re 88 austrumi - wifi niggle (by gnomic on 2011-07-19 21:45:48 GMT from New Zealand)
Agree that Austrumi is quite snazzy and packs a lot in on a smallish live CD. However I have never been able to get it to connect to a WPA secured access wifi access point. Just seem to wind up in an endless loop of the native network utility (name escapes me at present) asking for the passphrase over and over. Has anybody seen this working?
94 • Bodhi Linux and other DEs (by Deemon on 2011-07-20 05:43:44 GMT from United States)
Is there a possibility to uninstall E17 and install XFCe or other DEs for Bodhi Linux?
95 • re: 83 PUIAS (by Alan UK on 2011-07-20 07:12:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Try here: http://puias.math.ias.edu/wiki/puias6.1
"Burn the boot.iso to a blank cd-rom. Select URL when prompted for installation media source. The url should be automatically filled in for the princeton server. If you wish to use the IAS server, change puias.princeton.edu to puias.math.ias.edu or one of the European mirrors. "
96 • PUIAS (by Haasle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-20 07:33:46 GMT from Ireland)
Thank you, Alan.
All fine now.
But I prefer to download a complete ISO first, no netinstall.
But I understand, iso's needs spins and respins ...
( by the way, think about this, Mint team .... )
This is a very spartanic installation.
But again, thank you Alan.
97 • Netinstalls (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-20 09:52:06 GMT from Spain)
Ladislav
----------------------------------------
They don't provide a full install DVD, just a small boot (netinst) CD, so you need to install it over the Internet.
---------------------------------------
Haasle Mc Auliffe
---------------------------------------
But I prefer to download a complete ISO first, no netinstall.
But I understand, iso's needs spins and respins ...
----------------------------------------
Netinstalls can have some advantages, but I wouldn't use them for serious work. If you need to have a dozen computers up and running, it is better to have a full DVD with you than to wait for every package to download itself twelve times...
Worse yet, shall one of those computers need a reinstall, you depend on your Internet Service Provider to be up and running. You can laugh at me, but I have seen many people needing to do something EXTREMELY important with Internet and being unable to connect because of a network failure.
I think the best distribution method is de one Debian adoptes: they provide their whole set of non-non-free repositories as a set of DVD or CD. The installer DVD includes many options, so you can choose which desktop environment to install. You don't need a respin: the DVD can do it almost all.
I always buy the whole DVD set and use it to make a local repository in my hard drive. I know I could use Internet to download the packages the traditional way, but having them in the drive means two things:
1--- I don't depend on an Internet connection to install or uninstall software, so I will be able to work even if the ISP crashes (not so extrange when you live in the middle of the mountains and the nearest shape of intelligent live is a horse who lives 5 miles away ).
2--- Having the packages saves you the time to download them. Installing a package is FAST when you have it already. Even people will trouble-proof connections would benefit from having the whole repositories availible.
98 • ISO's and Spins (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-20 12:32:27 GMT from Ireland)
Yes, having the DVD(s) is convenient, but after that, there's the update issues, and therefor the need to deliver re-spins, for example : installing mint xfce or mint debian with the iso's provided, after the install it will apply for approx 800 MB updates .... that's why I want the respins. But you're right, in serious business a net-install is no option at all.
Cheers.
H,
99 • @87 (by dragonmouth on 2011-07-20 12:38:36 GMT from United States)
Looks like somebody needs a hug! Patrick, you sound like a developer who feels unappreciated and unloved by the users but, with your attitude, I'm not surprised.
"I get sick and tired of users thinking they can demand things and the developers are required to listen to them."
If you are a developer, you need to change your attitude or you will be developing only for yourself. FYI, users KNOW that they can demand and that developers ARE required to listen to them. In the business world the customer is always right. Users==Customers. In the real world, development is driven by users/customers. Without users, there is no development. You develop what the users want and how they want it, or you find yourself flipping burgers for MickeyDs.
I could address each one of your points one by one but this is not the forum for a long, philosophical discussions. Besides, you would not accept anything I'd say anyway. I'll let your reality point out the error of your ways to you.
100 • RE: 97, 98 (by ladislav on 2011-07-20 12:57:23 GMT from Taiwan)
A serious business can simply download the distro's entire directory to a local networked machine and use local network to install the distro to dozens of machines. It's a lot simpler than passing DVDs around.
101 • ISO's and Spins (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-20 13:01:02 GMT from Spain)
Hassle Mc Auliffe wrote:
-------------------------------------
Yes, having the DVD(s) is convenient, but after that, there's the update issues, and therefor the need to deliver re-spins, for example : installing mint xfce or mint debian with the iso's provided, after the install it will apply for approx 800 MB updates .... that's why I want the respins.
-----------------------------------
I see. I seem to have a so Debianised brain that I cannot think from other points of view.
With the Debian DVD set, you can rest knowing that updates will come each two months. When they arrive, I just get the update DVD.
It is not the faster way for having updates, (and security updates should be done on-line, anyway), but it saves me from downloading tons of stuff with 2 kps of transfer rate.
102 • Making things clear (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-20 13:02:54 GMT from Spain)
What I meant is that I buy the DVD in a store.
103 • Users (by Jesse on 2011-07-20 13:17:49 GMT from Canada)
>> "users KNOW that they can demand and that developers ARE required to listen to them. In the business world the customer is always right. Users==Customers. In the real world, development is driven by users/customers."
I've worked in a lot of companies, on both sides of the customer/developer line and that's not how it has worked in most of the situations I've been in. Quite often customers don't have much of a choice in their product selection. In a lot of cases there's really just one de facto standard and people have to buy that product to stay in the game. Software done to a government standard, MS-Office and highly specialized mapping software all come to mind. For customers to have any weight in the matter they have to have choices -- choices beyond being in business or not being in business.
104 • @99 (by Patrick on 2011-07-20 14:16:41 GMT from United States)
*lol* Well thanks for the hug, really makes me feel better. :)
I am a developer, but not an open source developer, haven't figured out yet how to make a living doing that. I feel well enough appreciated at my job, exactly _because_ I tend to push the user's angle.
Doing that, I have found out users have a wide variety of opinions. It is a fact of life that you can't make everyone happy. What bothered me about your comment is that you seem to be the kind of user who thinks he can speak for all other users, which is a quite delusional view of life.
Maybe you were a developer who made custom solutions for a particular customer? In that case, sure, you have to make what that customer wants or you're out of business. The question is: did every end user like it? That is what we're talking about here: end user demands, which tend to be all over the spectrum.
We are all open source end users and all have our own opinions. My opinions differ from yours. I have some opinions which seem to be quite unpopular in this forum: I like the new Gnome shell, see some uses for the cloud, think binary firmware is irrelevant to software freedom, like systemd, and think Pulseaudio is one of the best things that ever happened to sound in Linux. Some users will agree with some of these, not with others. Some will agree with none.
So tell me, if developers should listen to their users, who should they listen to? You or me? If they listen to me, you will throw a fit because you think they're deciding what's good for their users and not listening to them. Well, they did listen to some of them, just not to you. If they listen to you, at least I'm reasonable enough to realize that they must have listened to the opinions of other users, just not to me. I will never call them arrogant for that.
105 • Today's Debian Tidbit (by Bob on 2011-07-20 15:41:45 GMT from Canada)
In Debian, the Adobe flash player browser plugin (flashplugin-nonfree) package doesn't automatically update with each new revision Adobe releases. It is up to you to issue the command "update-flashplugin-nonfree --install" to update your flash installation.
106 • uninstall E17 on bodhi (by JB on 2011-07-20 15:47:27 GMT from United States)
(((Is there a possibility to uninstall E17 and install XFCe or other DEs for Bodhi Linux?)))
yes. a good place to ask for help is ubuntu forums or bodhi linux forums, but adding xfce is simple-- open a terminal and run this command:
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install xfce4
107 • @84 (by Warp0 on 2011-07-20 15:50:12 GMT from United States)
I had problems with the Phoenix XFCE (2011.07) version of PCLOS installed via USB .. it did not accept my root password (installed twice, same problem) when trying to setup a wireless connection (saw networks just fine, but would kept giving wrong password errors when I tried to setup the wifi) - odd, that. Tried no pw, root pw, etc.
LXDE (2011.06), OTOH, installed without a hitch. Playing with it right now, but everything seems fine. Fast, clean, quite impressive actually.
108 • Bodhi and XFce (by Deemon on 2011-07-20 16:56:00 GMT from United States)
Thanks!
I know sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install xfce4, but will it work is the question.
For example Ubuntu with Gnome 3 works, but quite slow. Bodhi is fast, but I don't like the childish E17. Thanks anyway!
109 • Bodhi, xfce (by fernbap on 2011-07-20 18:45:37 GMT from Portugal)
"Bodhi is fast, but I don't like the childish E17."
Well, bodhi is fast because E17 is fast.
Sure, there are other lightweight desktops you could use, but XFCE is not exactly very fast. You have faster alternatives.
Considering that Bodhi uses soem of LXDE utilities, perhaps the most logical would be LXDE.
Anyway, if you want a distro without E17, then why start from a E17 distro?
I always loved Mint LXDE, because for me it is the best compromise between lightness and workability.
Btw, i like Bodhi. Been trying it lately, and it looks very good for a minimal distro from where to build. The fact that it is based on Ubuntu LTS is also a good decision, imho.
So, if you want to use Bodhi without E17, you are basically using a Ubuntu 10.04 minimal install.
110 • Bodhi, xfce (by anticapitalista on 2011-07-20 21:29:08 GMT from Greece)
If you want a fast and light xfce using apt, don't go the Ubuntu route. Instead use Debian (or a derivative). There are plenty of tests that show how much lighter it is compared to Ubuntu.
111 • @ 108 - Light distro without E17 (by forlin on 2011-07-20 22:56:59 GMT from Portugal)
If your preference goes for a distro that is fast and is based on Ubuntu, you may also consider Peppermint.
@ 109 - fernbap: if you like Bodhi and plan to use it frequently, in case you have some spare time, it would be great if you could give an hand on translating the wiki to the portuguese language.
112 • @111 (by fernbap on 2011-07-20 23:42:04 GMT from Portugal)
"in case you have some spare time, it would be great if you could give an hand on translating the wiki to the portuguese language."
Perhaps i could, didn't visit Bodhi's website or its forum yet. At least that would prevent it from being translated by brazilians :D
Would like to know what happened to opengeu btw, it looks, unfortunately, dead.
113 • @112 opengeu (by forlin on 2011-07-21 01:35:00 GMT from Portugal)
Opengeu is dormant. I visited their site a couple of days ago. The main developer said he was alone in the project and with less time available than in the past. He needed and asked for for coders to join the project. Since then, Nov last year, there's no more news.
As he cannot run Opengeu alone and with limited time, it would be good if he could join another of the current E17 distros, I think.
114 • PCLOS (mostly) (by Zorklat on 2011-07-21 03:05:32 GMT from United States)
I like PCLOS, it's what I use 90% of the time on my desktop machine. It's more reliable and less buggy than Lubuntu, and I don't have to reinstall or upgrade every six months. It's MUCH more up to date than #!10 Statler. PCLOS was my only distro for a couple years, until Blizzard stopped supporting Win2k for World of Warcraft. At that point, since I couldn't afford a Windows license, and the PCLOS repos only had Wine up to 0.9.something, I went looking for another distro, and picked Mint off of the WineHQ appDB page for World of Warcraft. It worked pretty well, but I wanted more speed. So I spent a lot of time hopping from one distro to another in order to eke every last fps I could from my hardware. When I stopped playing WoW, I started asking myself, "What do I really want from my OS now?" I wanted reliability, hardware detection, up-to-date software, proprietary codecs and drivers, and most of all -- I wanted off the reinstall/upgrade treadmill. I went back to PCLOS, and it's been my primary OS ever since.
One of the things I've done is add Rekonq and set its homepage to the Software Announcements page on the PCLOS forums, which I check each and every time I am ready to hit "reload" in Synaptic -- long before "mark all upgrades" or "apply." This is a good habit for anyone maintaining PCLOS.
Reviews of 2011.6 I've read have suggested that the way to deal with PCLOS' live CD/ post install graphics issues (when they happen) is to log into a virtual terminal as root, init 3, rename or delete xorg.conf, and either restart X or reboot. I haven't tried this yet, though I will say that PCLOS didn't use maximum resolution on my Dell Inspiron 15R with Intel graphics. That machine is running Lubuntu Natty with additions of the XFCE power manager, Granola, and Jupiter -- a combination that has added 2 hours to prospective battery life. And it looks very nice as well.
@24: Texstar loves packaging. It's what makes running PCLOS fun for him. He does his best to keep all upstream packages vanilla, which makes things easier.
@28: 64 bit will be ready when Tex thinks it's ready. I'm sorry you were treated badly by the community. We have our quirks, and not mentioning Canonical Critters and the number one spinoff by name is one of them. We're not here to emulate or imitate them, or have their fanboys ask (over and over and over) when we will. We do things differently and for a reason. If you want features that Canonical Critters (or Fedora, or openSUSE, or Mandriva) has that we don't, go ahead and use Canonical Critters.
@94: It ought to be. In your situation, I'd open synaptic, install the DE you want (lxde is probably going to be lighter than xfce, and MUCH lighter than xubuntu-desktop), log out, select your preferred DE in the display manager, and log back in. I don't think I'd go wipe e17 right off the bat. I'd wait a month or two, in case the new DE crashes, dies, blows up, or whatever. As a backup, make sure you have nano, w3m and irssi installed, so you can edit files, search the web, and chat on IRC from console. Another option is to start from Madbox instead of Bodhi. It's a minimalist Openbox spin of Maverick Meerkat, following the model of #!9.04
115 • PCLinuxOS (by Vukota on 2011-07-21 03:50:32 GMT from United States)
I am definitely not a fan of PCLinuxOS, but I had a chance and a need for a live distro on my thumb drive, and I picked PCLinuxOS LXDE from available top 10 choices. It worked excellent for a task:
- It was easy to get it on a USB (from another linux distro/computer) without CD/DVD drive (though required drive to be reformatted to ext2 first)
- It recognized all hardware correctly on my Lenovo R400 laptop and worked nicely with other USB drives/devices.
- It offered persistent storage on it
- Application selection/navigation/look and feel were good enough that I didn't have problems (or wasted time) finding/navigating/configuring anything I needed (for the intended purpose).
- It was snappy and didn't drain battery quickly
- It had necessary codecs for watching DVDs/videos and listening mp3.
I wouldn't choose it for my main distro, but for having something useful and quick on a thumb-drive is excellent.
116 • PCLinuxOS (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-21 09:31:33 GMT from Ireland)
@ 115
"I wouldn't choose it for my main distro"
Well, that's your choice, but one question ? How can you say this, without trying it .... ?
You might be surprised ....
Cheers H.
117 • RE:116 One good answer. (by Eddie on 2011-07-21 16:10:32 GMT from United States)
@116
I wouldn't use it as my main distro either. Not because of quality or any such thing but because of no 64bit version. Despite all the comments to the contrary 64bit does make a big difference when you do serious work on your system. When PCLOS makes a distro for modern hardware then I will check them out again.
118 • PCLinuxOS (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-21 16:14:47 GMT from Ireland)
The 64-bit is coming. Reason for the little delay ?
Just doing things properly .... What about that ? So, you better keep checking, can be there any moment.
Cheers. H.
119 • NO,no,no,no, PCLinuxOS 2011.6 is the best oprerativsystemet in 2011 with kde (by Kjetil Ervik on 2011-07-21 17:28:05 GMT from Norway)
PCLinuxOS 2011.6 is the best operating system in 2011, without a doubt. You can read a lot of nonsense about PCLinuxOS here on the website. For the nonsense it is when you yourself have problems with pclos, then pclos bad? I think the author should look at its hardware, something's not there. I use PCLinuxOS 2011.6 and have never experienced anything better operating system pclos 2011.6 kde. I have tested many over the past two years, the last was Pardus 2011.1 which was the slowest made for me. Ubuntu has switched to Unity, which is more reminiscent of old OS2 from IBM. Not to mention Gnome3. No so hard does not make it as Gnome and Unity does it for the day. Att PCLinuxOS is doing very well at the moment, also the envy of other parts of the Linux environment, and therefore can sink so low again, for trying to throw shit instead of being possitiv, is more than strange. I do not know me again in the description the author here comes with the PCLinuxOS 2011.6, maybe he will learn more details?
120 • Question for #115 (by Taigong on 2011-07-21 20:45:47 GMT from Canada)
How does it take from push the power button to system ready in your setup?
121 • @103. (by dragonmouth on 2011-07-21 20:47:05 GMT from United States)
Apparently you and I had different experiences. Yes, there are many companies that buy off-the-shelf software and have their employees use it as is. But in those cases one is not a software developer but a software implementer. Besides, the software vendor provides the support, not the IT staff. OTOH, there are many companies that, for various reasons, want or need custom software. The users define the specs and then the in-house IT staff or outside consultants design, develop, implement and support the necessary software systems. I am talking about industry specific software where one size does not fit all, not the universal MS Office-type stuff.
122 • Custom built (by Jesse on 2011-07-21 20:56:27 GMT from Canada)
>> "I am talking about industry specific software where one size does not fit all, not the universal MS Office-type stuff."
If you'd read my post, you'd notice I was also talking about the industry specific software. It doesn't really matter what type of software you're dealing with, unless you just have one client, someone isn't going to be happy with the development decisions. Part of being a developer is finding a balance in what to code and what not to, what ideas to accept and what to toss.
123 • Devs do not rule the world (by F1aw on 2011-07-22 01:29:41 GMT from United States)
Great review. What I like the most about DistroWatch reviews is that they are made from the user perspective. If the liveCD does not boot, it will be mentioned. If the WIFI or video card does not work, it will be mentioned. Keep up the great work.
>>Part of being a developer is finding a balance
While I agree with the statement and the reasoning behind it, this statement is not appropriate given the original complaints that spurred this discussion. Several readers complained that the "rolling" nature of the PCLOS causes problems with their installations (deleted xorg.conf).
In this case the developers decided to alter existing user settings without giving them a choice or even a warning. Take a look at another situation. Do you really think GNOME team was looking for a balance in opinions of their users when they decided to castrate the right mouse button? I do not think they did.
Devs tend to get out of touch with reality, and users have the right and obligation to smack some sense back into them.
124 • advice/suggestions (by Don on 2011-07-22 03:42:22 GMT from United States)
Hi,I have obtained a mini itx Via 1.5ghz C7 based computer.It has 1gb ram.I am looking for an operating system that will run nicely on it.I mostly web surf.I would like a few distros to try out and decide on .TIA
125 • developers, distributions and other stuff (by JR on 2011-07-22 03:50:35 GMT from Brazil)
how about looking at the developer's perspective:
when you make a linux distribution do you do for others (future user community) or you do to yourself, to be that distribution you seek and not find?
Maybe we do not like all the changes in a given distribution but the developers might have enjoyed it! (not just making them but the end result!)
Think about it ...
126 • Scientific Linux matches RHEL support period (by Steve Bergman on 2011-07-22 07:48:56 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure what the author of the Centos vs Scientific Linux article was talking about WRT his deciding factor in choosing Centos. The Scientific Linux team is pretty clear regarding their support cycle:
http://www.scientificlinux.org/distributions
They've been adhering to the RHEL schedule pretty closely. SL 6 looks to have only 6 years of support from the RHEL 6 release date, however. But I'm wondering if that's not a typo. And it does say "at least".
At any rate, what's a year here or there. (Oh yeah. A year is the complete life-cycle of a Fedora release.)
BTW, in checking this out, I discovered that RHEL actually provides an optional 10 years of binary updates if you pay for it. That means that the extra 3 years of sources should be available. Even RHEL 3 is still alive.
127 • Re: PCLinuxOS (by Vukota on 2011-07-22 15:57:39 GMT from United States)
@116: On my main desktop or server (or anything that I have to support or maintain as a production ready) I would not use it due to the support. It does not have enterprise ready support (that includes many things, and people that are long time in IT, knows what I mean). Most of the other top 20 distros are better in that regards, though not all of them. Maybe PCLinuxOS will be there one day, but its not there now.
@117: Yes, that is one of the answers as well (even my test rig was 64bit and had 8GB but that was irrelevant for the task).
@120: I guess its better with LXDE, than with the regular one. It was faster than most live distros I tried (or fast enough that it was not annoying, though that can be subjective and hardware dependent).
128 • New Linux kernel (by Jesse on 2011-07-22 16:32:06 GMT from Canada)
Anyone else try the new Linux 3.0 kernel? I got it loaded on a machine this morning and it's measurably sluggish compared to older versions. I'm not thinking this is a good sign.
129 • how to make LiveCD from FreeBSD (by BSD Coward on 2011-07-23 18:57:06 GMT from United States)
Folks,
I have a question, how do I make a FreeBSD liveCD/liveDVD?
I have freesbie port installed, but don't have any directions on how to use it :(
I am running 8.2 amd64 FreeBSD release, and I just want to get my feet wet, i.e, learn how to make a FreeBSD live cd, I see there is a mfsbsd or something like that, but I don't know how to do things? A nice howto would be very nice, if there is such a document please share it.
BTW, Ladislav I tried the Fujulta LiveCD[OpenBSD live] and it took very long to get up and running :(, its size after extracting was 695 MB, I was just looking for a small livecd based on ''Free/Open/Net''BSD with minimal requirements and a good web browser like Firefox/Opera/etc. Thanks for the link though. I appreciate it.
130 • 3.0 (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-23 19:16:43 GMT from Ireland)
@ Jesse 128
Linus Torvalds has announced the release of Linux kernel 3.0 on his Google+ profile after a short delay earlier this week.
So what’s new? Well, not a lot really. The new release sees a few new patches as well as a bit of old cruft removed, but as Linus explains in his announcement to the Linux kernel mailing list in May, 3.0 won’t feature a bunch of new stuff.
So what are the big changes?
NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. Sure, we have the usual two thirds driver changes, and a lot of random fixes, but the point is that 3.0 is *just* about renumbering, we are very much *not* doing a KDE-4 or a Gnome-3 here.
No breakage, no special scary new features, nothing at all like that. We’ve been doing time-based releases for many years now, this is in no way about features. If you want an excuse for the renumbering, you really should look at the time-based one (“20 years”) instead.
There are however a few interesting new tidbits such as a Microsoft Kinect driver, Cleancache support, open source graphics driver improvements including initial support for Intel’s Ivy Bridge, and a lot of changes for the open source Intel, Radeon, and Nouveau drivers.
The new kernel pulls support for a few older, rarely used features such as the Reiser4 file system, and according to Michael Larabel over at Phoronix, unfortunately doesn’t fix the power regressions that were found in Ubuntu 11.04.
Why the jump to 3.0, then?
Linus explains:
I decided to just bite the bullet, and call the next version 3.0. It will get released close enough to the 20-year mark, which is excuse enough for me, although honestly, the real reason is just that I can no longer comfortably count as high as 40.
The whole renumbering was discussed at last years Kernel Summit, and there was a plan to take it up this year too. But let’s face it – what’s the point of being in charge if you can’t pick the bike shed color without holding a referendum on it? So I’m just going all alpha-male, and just renumbering it. You’ll like it.
131 • Re: Linux distros (by Jan Wyatt on 2011-07-23 21:39:36 GMT from United States)
In 29, Alwin wrote:
How about Linux disto stop been distros, but be operating systems?
Why not an operating system with the main parts, but without office, disk-burning, music playing, etc programs, but with repos, where one can choose which one to use? When we download any program, won't that program match the hardware, so it would work better than universal distros?
It sounds to me like you're describing Archlinux.
132 • #131 (by anticapitalista on 2011-07-23 22:28:40 GMT from Greece)
Or Debian net-install, or any distro that has a core install.
However, what about those users that do not have a fast internet connection or even no internet connection? For those users Archlinux is useless, unlike Debian as Debian provides a full set of apps on cd/dvd.
133 • re #124 (by gnomic on 2011-07-24 00:17:38 GMT from New Zealand)
Not sure exactly where your C5 stands in performance terms but I'll assume it's not a speed demon compared with the latest and greatest. So you probably want a Linux version that's not too demanding - a quick listing of some distros that might fit the bill could include Salix, porteus, antiX, Kanotix, aptosid, or a Puppy derivative called Snowpuppy or more recently Midnightsun Pup. These all have live CDs you can use for testing. Debian also has a live CD version which should be quite nimble with a desktop like LXDE or Xfce. Have a lot of fun! as the SUSE Linux people are wont to say.
134 • #132 (by Jan Wyatt on 2011-07-24 00:41:51 GMT from United States)
Good point. Telling someone to spend more money on bandwidth (which it's physically possible to obtain it) or to buy new hardware to accomodate the peculiarities of this or that distribution often isn't a realistic solution. There are too many other distributions to choose from that probably will work with one's combination of bandwidth and hardware.
135 • Linux OS (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-24 08:58:56 GMT from Ireland)
I think what Alwin @29 is saying, is that he wants one Linux OS, not hundreds of Distros.
And leave it up to the users, what to install and what not.
A point that might be valid. I wish Torvalds took up the challenge ....
But of course, all the Distros are great craic. Cheers !
H.
136 • @29 (by Hassle Mc Auliffe on 2011-07-24 10:56:41 GMT from Ireland)
But Alwin, just for a good understanding. There's is already a Linux OS. Called the Linux Kernel, that's the hart and soul of all the Distros. Cheers H.
137 • The (GNU/)Linux OS (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-24 13:50:31 GMT from Spain)
---------------------------------------
I think what Alwin @29 is saying, is that he wants one Linux OS, not hundreds of Distros.
And leave it up to the users, what to install and what not.
--------------------------------------
The average user is not ready to choose what to install.
How would he decide between sysV, systemd or bsd-like boot process? And between GRUB, Lilo, Syslinux...? Not to talk about udisk and its alternatives. The "install what I want approach" seems nice until you realize the kind of work you have ahead.
Assembling a GNU/Linux distribution is not trivial. Distributers have already done the low level dirty work so we don't have to suffer.
If you want a "install what I want" system, you have two options:
-Install a minimal system (maybe without X) and build up from it.
-Compile and create a Linux From Scratch system, then tweak it as you like.
And no, reducing options so you only have one boot system or one volume manager availible for GNU/Linux is not a good idea.
138 • From 131--- (by Alwin on 2011-07-24 14:26:12 GMT from United States)
Fedora, Arch, Slackware, Ubuntu Linux etc are completely different operating systems based on the same linux kernel. After the kernel, their similarity ends.
After the kernel, their similarity ends. And that's the problem with having so any Linuxes, which compete with each other in the Linux world. Most times the Windows users don't really want to come the Linux way because of this. For the Windows users, its quite easy --it is always .exe
139 • Linux, @138 (by fernbap on 2011-07-24 15:26:49 GMT from Portugal)
In a way, you are right.
Linux is a democratic system. That means that, for each task, you may have several different solutions. That doesn't happen in commercial products, creating more than one solution for the same problem would be a waste of money and resources.
Hence the difficulty of building a OS from scratch. You have many ways to go, and reach different end products.
We have a few "base systems", from where most distributions derive. Like an evolutionary tree, we have common ancesters to a family of derived products, In a general sense, all the distros that derive from a common ancester are compatible and interchangeable.
So, for a new linux user, it would be better to label those "families" of distributions. Also, noone is an expert of them all. So, better stick to a single "family", like Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Fedora and explore the members of that family. You have equivalent solutions in all families, but they may not only be based on completely different software but also be incompatible.
So, stick to a family. My personal choice was Debian, but you are free to chose yours.
140 • Software installation (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-24 18:16:09 GMT from Spain)
Alwin wrote:
---------------------------------
For the Windows users, it is quite easy--it is always.exe
---------------------------------
The software you will find in RH repositories is more or less the same you will find in Debian repositories.
With a RPM package, you can easily make a .deb package. With a .deb package, you can make a RPM package.
With the source code, you can make a package for any distribution. Hell, you don't even need a package to install the software!!
What does all this mean? It means that any software that runs on a given distribution can surely be used in any other distribution. The excuse "I don't like GNU/Linux because Debian has a set of packages an Fedora other" is very, very lame. A package is just a compressed file which contains a bunch of other files inside. Conversion is extremely easy in most cases.
Some users like .txz and hate .deb packages. Other users like .deb and hate .txz. As long as nobody tries to force me to use what I like, I won't try to force anyone to use what I like.
141 • Correction (by Anonymous Coward on 2011-07-24 18:20:50 GMT from Spain)
"As long as nobody tries to force me to use what he likes, I won't try to force anyone to use what I like"
142 • @140 (by Alwin on 2011-07-24 19:05:40 GMT from United States)
No Windows user hates .exe, for it works for him, and he pays for that too.
We say Linux in general, but actually, other than the kernel, nothing is really the same. Windows has a kernel, but it is not Windows kernel, but has another name, no Windows user cares to know.
We have families as ferbap says, so why not call our distros or operating systems, Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch, etc without naming them in general as Linux.
Then we'd have lot of real operating systems, which work in their own way, and we may even use each others work, but they'd be independent. That way, maybe this "Linux" world would flourish. Even BSD kernel is making more people fanatical users in Mac, but none cares to know what is the kernel, for they don't need to as they have the Mercedes of all operating systems.
Why can't OSs with Linux kernel have the same success? Not the Linux kernel, but the families such as Arch, Debian, Redhat, Gentoo, etc.
143 • @142 (by JR on 2011-07-24 20:12:15 GMT from Brazil)
I think you're talking about (@142 comment) the difference between Linux distributions and final products with a specific focus, which may or may not use linux as a base, such as kernel and GNU stuff, because for the end user it does not really matter (ex: Android). Try this link from Eugeni Dodonov's blog (Mandriva) and you will understand what I'm talking about!
http://dodonov.net/blog/2011/07/17/on-linux-distributions-and-desktops/
Then tell me what you think!
JR
144 • pclinuxos (by imnotrich on 2011-07-25 05:13:34 GMT from Mexico)
I tried pclinux os a few years ago (early 2009) and while I thought the default desktop/gui was cute, it did not support my hardware (including linksys pci wireless) so I abandoned it in favor of Kanotix - which worked flawlessly.
I would expect pclinux os's wireless support has taken great strides since then? Even in 2009 you would have expected it to support LINKSYS (a fairly common card) though, so who knows.
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