 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 401, 18 April 2011 |
Welcome to this year's 16th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Puppy Linux has emerged as the most popular among the lighter distributions available on the market. Its most recent release continues the distro's proud tradition of being super-fast even on modest hardware, while, at the same time, it also re-ignites the debate on running standard desktop application in the superuser mode. In this week's feature article Robert Storey weighs the pros and cons of Puppy Linux 5.2.5 and adds a few tips and tricks for good measure. In the news section, Stefano Zacchiroli is re-elected as Debian Project Leader, HatStacks offers a new web-based software portal for Fedora users, and the developer of Incognito Live System explains the reasons for the "untrusted website" message some visitors were getting while accessing the project's download page. Last but not least, a step-by-step instruction for compiling a vanilla Linux kernel and adding it to your distribution's bootloader menu. Happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (38MB) and MP3 (34MB) formats
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story (by Robert Storey) |
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - taking a bite out of bloat
Dogs never bite me. Just humans. (Marilyn Monroe)
* * * * *
 Puppy Linux - the brainchild of Australian developer Barry Kauler - first made its appearance in 2006 and quickly became known for its snappy speed and cutesy appearance. I assume that Barry likes dogs.
Currently, there are three renditions of this OS bearing the name "Puppy:" Wary, Quirky, and Lucid. Wary is designed to run on older hardware boasting museum-piece video cards and analog dial-up modems. Thus, it is "wary" of new hardware. Quirky is almost the exact opposite, where Barry and friends are experimenting with some new "quirky" ideas. And finally there is Lucid, the top dog, which is attempting to bring Puppy into the realm of competing desktop distros but without the bloat.
Another variation on the theme is Pupeee, a fork which was optimized for the diminutive hardware of the early ASUS eeePC netbooks. Those early netbooks (I have one) had wimpy specs (Intel Celeron-M processor at 900 MHz, 512 MB RAM, no hard drive). More recent models boast beefier specs and seem to work well with Lucid, which has diminished the need for Pupeee.
Today I'll be taking a look at Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid, which was released on 2011-04-03. I'm testing it with a 4-year-old Dell Inspiron laptop featuring an Intel dual-core CPU running at 1.5 GHz with 2 GB of RAM and 80 GB hard drive. This is my main workhorse machine, and has Ubuntu 10.10 installed. Aside from having the fun of testing Puppy, this was a serious experiment to see if there were enough new features in this latest Puppy release to tempt me away from Ubuntu.
Installation
The Puppy 5.2.5 ISO file occupies a mere 128 MB, which means it will easily fit even on an 8-cm mini-CD. Though you can run it as a live CD, you'll get more functionality by installing it. However, even as a live CD, Puppy runs very fast because the whole operating system can fit into RAM. This is in sharp contrast to most other live distros, which run very slowly as the CD drive thrashes looking for data. It's popular to install Puppy on a USB memory stick and thus have a convenient OS-to-go, but for this review I'm installing on a spare partition of my hard drive.
One of the great features of Puppy is just how fast it installs. A bloated distro can take up to an hour before the first boot, but a typical Puppy installation session occupies less than 10 minutes. However, if you've never installed Puppy before, you might need several tries because there are a few opportunities to mess things up.
One thing that confuses a lot of punters is that at some point you'll be asked where the Puppy files reside (CD or Directory), and if you click on "CD" you'll get an error message. That's because the CD must be mounted before you even start the installation program. In Puppy, you mount CDs, memory sticks and drive partitions simply by clicking on their icons, which appear on the lower-left corner of the desktop.
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - mount the CD before starting the install process
A second issue that can trip-up even veteran Puppy users is a question about "alternative MBRs." In most cases, "default" will work, but in the past I had to use one of the options to make Puppy boot on a USB stick. If your Puppy appears stillborn, you'll need to run through the whole installation procedure again and try one of the four options - if that doesn't work, go through it again and try the next option. In the one case where I had to do this, mbr.bin was what finally worked.
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - selecting from bootloader options
One more hurdle on the path to Puppyhood is that you're given an opportunity to use the pfix=copy option, which allows file lupu_525.sfs to be copied into RAM at boot-up. I chose not to do this, but feel free to be different. This option can be altered at any time after installation. Another option is whether or not you wish to do a "frugal" or "full" install. If you're installing on a hard drive, I'd suggest "full."
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - it is possible to run the whole Puppy from RAM
After you've done all the above and the installer works its magic, you might think you are done. However, don't remove the Puppy CD from the drive and reboot just yet. You've also got to install GRUB, or else you won't have a bootable system. In the menus, find "System --> GRUB bootloader config" - you'll be given the option of "simple" or "expert," and I suggest you keep it simple. You'll first be presented with an opportunity to configure GRUB to use the framebuffer (and thus create a pretty boot menu), but in line with my KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) philosophy, I took the first option, "standard."
By the way, kudos to the developers of Puppy Linux for using supposedly "out-of-date" GRUB 1.x, rather than the "modern" but far messier GRUB 2. This is one case where the good old days were really better. I've never understood the logic behind GRUB 2 - it appears to be a solution in search of a problem. Anyway, next you'll be asked where you want the GRUB files to go. The obvious answer should be the same partition where you're installing Puppy. One suggestion I'd like to make to the developers: change your example from "/dev/hda2" to "/dev/sda2."
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - installing GRUB
Finally, but crucially, you are asked to select the "GRUB destination." You're presented with three options, and it's a bit of a trick question. The first option offered, "Root," will only work if you're using a boot manager such as GAG. In fact, this is what I do, and I highly recommend GAG if you've got more than one operating system installed on your hard drive. However, the vast majority of users will probably choose option 3, the "MBR" even though you're warned that it's "possibly unsafe." Most odd is option 2, installing to a floppy. I know that Puppy likes to support old hardware, but I'm not sure it's still possible to even buy floppy disks. At least it's reassuring to know that Puppy does not support cassette-tape drives.
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - choosing the bootloader location
If you do screw up the GRUB installation, the good news is that you don't have to reinstall everything. Just boot the live CD again and go through the GRUB configuration procedure. Compared to most distros, reconfiguring Puppy's GRUB is simplicity itself.
Connectivity
Having successfully survived the pitfalls of installation, I booted-up. Like everything else about Puppy, boot time was fast. The desktop is very cheerful with lots of artistic icons. Clicking on any icons or menus brings such an immediate response that you could be forgiven for thinking you're running a mainframe rather than a lowly PC. The instant response time is one of the greatest joys of the Puppy desktop.
Puppy Linux 5.2.5 - the default desktop
(full image size: 995kB, resolution 1280x800 pixels)
After admiring the aesthetics, my next mission was to get online, and actually this proved to be more traumatic than I expected. Outside of exploiting the occasional free WiFi spot, my connection to the Internet is almost exclusively via a 3G USB broadband modem. I clicked through the menus and found "Setup --> Internet Connection Wizard" and chose "Internet by dialup analog or wireless modem." While attempting to click my way through the configuration, Puppy suddenly froze on me. The screen was locked, the cursor wouldn't move, and even CTRL-ALT-Backspace wouldn't get me out of this mess. I finally had to do a brute-force reboot by pulling the power cord and removing the laptop's battery.
Unfortunately, this led to more problems. Puppy does not recover gracefully from hard crashes, even though I installed it with the robust ext4 file system. On attempting to boot, I was informed that Puppy had not shut down properly. It did finally boot, but only to a text-mode command prompt. An error message gave me the impression that I needed to run the "fsck" command as root. However, running fsck on a mounted partition is generally disastrous. Thankfully, fsck helpfully informs you of this fact if you attempt to launch it and gives you an opportunity to back out. The proper thing to do at this point was to reboot the computer with either the Puppy live CD or else my Ubuntu installation. Then, since I had Puppy installed on /dev/sda3, as root I ran this command:
fsck /dev/sda3
I was informed by fsck that it had successfully recovered the journal and that everything was now peachy swell. I rebooted again, and this time I reached the command prompt with no visible error messages. Graphics did not start, however, until I typed "startx" and hit enter. Fortunately, that returned me to the Puppy desktop, and nothing seemed to have been permanently mangled. Nevertheless, I can't say that this big adventure instilled confidence, and I can imagine a newbie faced with all this complexity would be reaching for the Windows install disk.
To make a long story short, I learned that in order to set up 3G broadband, you need to create a file named /etc/wvdial.conf. The trick is knowing what to put in that file, so I will include mine below. It will most likely work for you, though possibly you'll need to tweak the settings a bit if your ISP is a little weird. So without further ado:
===========================
[Dialer Defaults]
Modem = /dev/ttyUSB0
Baud = 460800
Init1 =
Init2 = ATZ
Init3 = ATQ0V1E1S0=0&C1&D2S11=55+FCLASS=0
Carrier Check = no
Dial Command = ATDT
[Dialer isp1]
Phone = *99#
Username = ppp
Password = ppp
Stupid Mode = yes
Auto Reconnect = yes
[Dialer isp1apn]
Init5 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP",""
[Dialer isp2]
Phone = *99#
Username = ppp
Password = ppp
Auto Reconnect = yes
[Dialer isp2apn]
Init5 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP",""
[Dialer pin]
Init1 = AT+CPIN=
[Dialer wireless]
#To force only 2G or 3G, uncomment the Init4 line and append 0 (2G) or 2 (3G), and substitute your operator's name for MYOPS.
#Init4 = AT+COPS=0,0,"MYOPS",
#Init6-Init9 lines are available for user purposes; the commented examples can be used as described:
#To force the 3G quality of service level, uncomment the Init6/Init7 line pair and set value two places each, for 384k/144k/64k, omitting the "k" (e.g., =1,4,64,384,64,384).
#To list all the APNs stored in the modem, uncomment the Init8 line; check the Connection status log for lines beginning with +CGDCONT:.
#To list the operator identifier stored in the modem, uncomment the Init9 line; check the Connection status log for a line beginning with +COPS:.
#Init6 = AT+CGEQMIN=1,4,64,384,64,384
#Init7 = AT+CGEQREQ=1,4,64,384,64,384
#Init8 = AT+CGDCONT?
#Init9 = AT+COPS?
===========================
The above file configures PupDial, which is Puppy's graphical front-end for the text-mode wvdial program. You just connect by clicking the "Connect" button, but one thing that PupDial doesn't do is give you feedback. So if you want to be sure that you really did connect, you could either launch a browser (but more on that below), or just try to ping distrowatch.com from the command line:
root@puppypc:~> ping distrowatch.com
The one last connectivity-related thing you ought to do is run the firewall utility from the "Setup --> Linux-Firewall Wizard" menu. This is dead-easy, just accept the defaults. Once set up, you needn't bother with it again. A firewall icon will become visible in the lower-right panel, and if you hold your mouse cursor over it, you should see the words "Firewall On."
Got root?
Every time you read a review of Puppy Linux, inevitably the reviewer brings up the issue of Puppy's rather unusual user profile, which is to run the desktop and all applications as root (aka the "superuser"). Our intrepid reviewer then points out that this could be a security hole. Just as inevitably, one or more commenters out in Blogland comes riding to the rescue, protesting that Puppy is just as secure as any other Linux distro. "Running as root is safe - millions of users do so without ever getting hacked, so it can't be a security risk," says this voice, followed by: "Why do you reviewers keep whining about this?"
Because it is a security risk. In the next few paragraphs I will whine about this too, just like my predecessors. Feel free to skip ahead if you'd rather not read my whining, though by doing so you'll also miss my suggestions on how to minimize the risk.
So to clarity: when you boot up Puppy, you are not presented with a log-in prompt. Rather, you are logged in automatically as root and no password is requested. In theory, that shouldn't matter on a single-user system. In practice, once you go online, you are no longer running a single-user system - you are on a network, and there are lots of mean, nasty people out there who will employ every dirty trick in the book to break into your machine.
As mentioned, Puppy comes with a firewall, and you should of course be using it. But a firewall won't stop that which you've decided to allow in. Once you connect to a web site and start watching Flash videos, you have poked a hole in your firewall. A well-written web browser should protect you, but browser plug-ins like Adobe Flash are not open-source and have been hit numerous times with zero-day vulnerabilities. Though most Flash exploits target Windows users, there's no reason why Linux can't be targeted as well. The chief defense that Linux has in this case is the system of user privileges (or rather, the lack of privileges granted to non-root users). Some distros employ additional sophisticated defenses such as SELinux or AppArmor, and there is a cool technique called "sandboxing." However, these weapons aren't built into Puppy, and trying to roll-your-own wouldn't be trivial.
The good news is that Puppy comes configured, by default, with one non-privileged user by the name of spot. You can add additional users as well, though there isn't much reason to do so unless you've got two or more people sharing the same computer. Unfortunately, you cannot log into your desktop as spot. Rather, you've got to open a terminal and type at the command line: "su spot." Once you become spot, any command you launch (from the command line) will only have spot's limited privileges. Thus, if spot types "firefox," he/she can browse the Internet in relative safety. There are some caveats: the Chromium browser at present cannot be launched this way in Puppy (it will generate an error message and exit), while some other applications don't work properly (gFTP, for example). Also, when you launch applications as spot, the menus tend to have small and ugly fonts, though this is something I can live with. What I cannot live with is the knowledge that I'm browsing the Internet and checking my email with a system that could possibly be compromised. Security, to me, is a big deal.
Command-line tips and tricks
Although this review is not meant to be a primer on using the command-line interface, I do want to pass along a few tips that are especially relevant to configuring Puppy. If you open a terminal window, the root command prompt is nothing but a pound sign "#", and strangely even "su spot" gives you the same prompt. You aren't informed which directory you're in, and typing the wrong command could "clobber" (overwrite) an important system file, or delete it entirely.
To change all that, fire up Puppy's intuitive graphical Edit program (or non-intuitive vi if you're used to it), and create a file named .bashrc in the /root directory, with this content:
PS1="\u@\h:\w> "
export PS1
alias rm='rm -i'
alias cp='cp -i'
alias mv='mv -i'
set -o noclobber
Close the terminal window, and open a new one. Now your root prompt should look like this:
root@puppypc:~>
And if you type "su spot" you should see this:
spot@puppypc:~>
As spot, you should also create file .bashrc with the same content as above, but I suggest adding one additional line:
PATH=$PATH:$HOME/program ; export PATH
If you later have any scripts of your own, put them in /root/spot/program.
You've got one more important thing to do. By default, root, spot and any new users you create will use the sh shell, but I'd seriously advise switching this to bash. That's particularly important for spot. To do this, edit file /etc/passwd and change "/bin/sh" to "/bin/bash" for both root and spot. Since you are messing with a crucial system file, before editing I suggest backing it up by typing:
cp /etc/passwd /etc/passwd.original
Care and feeding
Puppy already comes with a decent selection of useful software packages pre-installed. However, everybody wants more, and fortunately it's not difficult to teach this dog some new tricks.
Binary packages (known as "PETs") are readily installed/removed by clicking on the "Quickpet" icon which resides on Puppy's desktop. You'll find all the usual suspects in there, such as GIMP, Firefox and Google Earth (Note: Google Earth installed but wouldn't run). I especially appreciated the inclusion of Emacs, the "Swiss Army Knife" of editors that I'm using right now to type this review. A nice touch is Kompozer, a WYSIWYG tool for simple web site development. Even WINE is included, though I didn't put it to the test since I no longer have any Windows applications. About the only complaint I have is that some of the packages are a bit dated, but they still work and that's what really matters.
Although it's nice to have pets, an interesting new development which began only with the 5.x Lucid releases is the ability to install Ubuntu DEB packages. This is still a work in progress, and many of the packages I tried to install ran into unresolvable dependency issues. Furthermore, the packages on offer are only a subset of the enormous Ubuntu repositories. Nevertheless, this has potential to help our Puppy grow into a full-sized dog.
To set up the Ubuntu repositories (and also update Puppy's pets), start Quickpet, then choose the More Pets --> Puppy Package Manager --> and click the Configure Package Manager button. Select whatever repositories you are interested in, and finally click Update now.
Asian language support
There are packages to support several European languages, but one thing Puppy lacks is any support for the major Asian languages. In fact, it's quite a serious omission for any modern OS now that we have Unicode. If you open a web page at a Chinese web site, all you'll see are square boxes with numbers in them. Fortunately, this can be rectified easily by doing the following:
- Download this font: zenhei
- Put that archive file into the /root folder, and unpack it: tar -xvf wqy-zenhei-0.6.26-0.tar.gz
- You'll now have a directory /root/wqy-zenhei, so move to that directory and copy "wqy-zenhei.ttf" to /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-liberation/
- And finally, as root, execute this command: fc-cache -fv
You have to log out (or better yet, just reboot) for the new font to take effect.
Conclusion
After a full week of usage, I can't say that Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid is quite ready to compete with industrial-strength distros such as Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora or openSUSE. It does come very close and I was able to get most of my work done, but the collection of PET packages is still insufficient to meet my heavy demands. The addition of the Ubuntu repository is potentially a solution, but the package collection is far from complete, and the issue of "dependency hell" is a source of frustration.
Furthermore, the wisdom of running as root continues to haunt Puppy. In this era of online shopping and online banking, users expect ironclad security, and it should not require command-line hacks to get it. Discussion of this issue often gets heated, even rabid, turning into an all-consuming flamefest at times. I wish people wouldn't get so emotional about it, but it is what it is. I don't expect the raging debate to end any time soon.
On the other hand, perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. Is Puppy meant to be blockbuster OS, built to withstand attacks like a server farm? Or is it just a lightweight fun OS that we can use to revive old hardware, or run from a USB stick when we need portability? A lot of people like Puppy - it's in the top 10 of the DistroWatch page-hit ranking. I enjoy Puppy too, and it's what I run exclusively on my netbook. Maybe the only thing wrong with Puppy is that users' expectations tend to exceed the developer's intentions.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Stefano Zacchiroli re-elected as DPL, HatStacks web-based software portal for Fedora, Incognito and "untrusted websites"
  Debian developer Stefano Zacchiroli (pictured on the right), has been elected as Debian Project Leader (DPL) for the second year running: "The winner of the election is Stefano Zacchiroli." Of course, this year's election was about as unexciting as it gets as Zacchiroli was the only candidate. One day before his term expired, the outgoing (and incumbent) DPL wrote on the debian-devel-announce mailing list: "Let's pretend for the rest of this mail that I still don't know what happened in the elections between me and that NOTA bloke. Today is the last day of the current DPL term, so what could possibly be better than SPAM-ing all of you with a report of what happened in DPL land since last month?" The post touches on some interesting subjects, including the Debian dErivatives eXchange (DEX) initiative, upcoming conferences (including DebConf) and the distro's relationship with the GNOME project, Free Software Foundation and the gNewSense distribution.
* * * * *
 A useful service designed primarily for Fedora users has been born. HatStacks, a web-based software portal offering a one-click installation method of many popular applications, went live last week: "Welcome to HatStacks: a free, web based software portal for the Fedora, Red Hat, and openSUSE Linux distributions. With HatStacks you can add applications to your myStack, and get recommendations for others via smartStack. HatStacks is partners with our sister project, HumanityStacks, a similar portal for Debian and Ubuntu. You can create an account and even add programs to your myStack in HatStacks, and then go over to HumanityStacks on an Ubuntu computer and install the same programs from your stack in just a few minutes through our private repository of applications. HatStacks was created in January of 2011 by a privately owned, independent FOSS, SAAS firm." A great service for those users who don't like mocking around in the terminal to install packages not normally available in the standard Fedora repository.
* * * * *
 Finally, a quick clarification on one of the recently released distribution. As one user noted, "I keep getting 'untrusted website' message from DistroWatch link while trying to access the website of Incognito Live System", a new version of which was released last week. Here is the response from the distro developer (who -- quite naturally -- prefers to remain incognito: "The project that hosts our website prefers not to give any money to the SSL Certification Authorities mafia. I guess the recent Comodo compromise is enough of a proof that the current CA-based trust model is inherently flawed. This webserver's SSL certificate is signed by a non-commercial, cooperative CA called CaCert which is not installed on any major browsers except Debian's Iceweasel. Depending on your security needs, you may thus want to 1 - visit our website without using SSL at all, or 2 - install the CaCert root certificate into your web browser, or 3 - add an exception into your web browser so that it considers our website certificate as valid. On the other hand, we're (sadly) considering offering our web hosters a commercial certificate signed by the SSL mafia. Not that it would make our website more secure at all, but it would at least avoid web browsers to display their "untrusted website" warning, that most visitors (read: anyone who is not that much fond of Internet security issues) have no clue what to do about."
Incognito Live System - browse the Internet in complete anonymity
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| Tips and Tricks (by Jesse Smith) |
Compiling the Linux kernel
A few weeks ago we saw the release of the 2.6.38 version of the Linux kernel. Generally I don't find myself all that interested in the minor point releases, but the performances improvements included in this release caught my attention and I decided to try it out. After grabbing the source from kernel.org it occurred to me that since it had been quite some time since I installed a vanilla kernel from source I should check to make sure no changes had made to the process. What I soon found was that the kernel documentation appears to be a bit out of date and sparse. It's generally assumed that people already know the steps and will be running a distribution featuring the LILO bootloader. A quick check also showed that the documentation available on distribution websites tended to be distro-specific (which is natural) but also assumes that we want to use git and the distro's package manager to install the latest kernel.
So, for those mere mortals among us who aren't already familiar with the workings of the kernel and don't want to install a bunch of extra version control and package building tools, I would like to present a step-by-step guide for compiling and installing the Linux kernel. And I'll try to make it as distro neutral as possible.
The first thing I recommend doing is making backups of your data. The kernel is an essential, low-level part of the operating system and making changes to it can cause problems. It probably won't break, but better safe than sorry. After you're done making backups, you'll need to make sure you have the following tools installed: your build system, including the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC). Some distributions refer to these packages as "build-essentials". And you'll need either mkinitramfs or mkinitrd, depending on your distribution. Each of the above should be available in your distribution's repository.
Next you'll want to get the kernel source code, which for the 2.6.38 release is available here. Other releases can be found at kernel.org. For the remainder of my example, I'm going to assume we're building kernel 2.6.38 and the kernel that's currently running on our system is 2.6.32, please adjust version numbers to match your situation. If you're unsure what kernel you're currently running, you can find out by using the command:
uname -r
Once the new kernel package has downloaded, open a terminal and unpack the source code:
tar xjf linux-2.6.38.tar.bz2
Move into the source code's directory:
cd linux-2.6.38
The next step you'll probably want to do is grab your distribution's current kernel configuration file. This will make sure the new kernel you build has the same settings as the one you already have. The old config file is probably kept in your system's /boot folder and will have a name like config-2.6.32. We're going to copy that file into the kernel's source directory:
cp /boot/config-2.6.32 .config
We'll then update the configuration file with any new features that have been added. We can do this with the command:
make oldconfig
If you're jumping a few kernel versions you'll likely be asked a lot of questions here. It's typically safe to take the defaults and just press Enter at each prompt. Our next step is to compile the kernel. We do this by running:
make
The compile process will take quite some time, probably in the range of an hour. When the compiling is finally finished we'll want to install the new kernel and its modules. We do this with:
make install modules_install
Our next step is to create an initial RAM disk. Depending on which distro you're on this may be done in one of two ways. Modern distros tend to use a tool called mkinitramfs. If your system uses mkinitramfs, we can make the RAM disk with this command:
mkinitramfs -o initrd.img-2.6.38 -v 2.6.38
Other distributions may use mkinitrd, in which case we can use the command:
mkinitrd initrd.img-2.6.38 2.6.38
Once the RAM disk has been created, we then copy it into our /boot directory:
cp initrd.img-2.6.38 /boot
Our last step is to update our boot loader so the new kernel will appear as an option at boot time. On machines using the GRUB boot loader, we can run the following as root:
update-grub
If you're on a distro which still uses the LILO boot loader, then we need to update LILO's configuration file (usually /etc/lilo.conf) and re-run LILO. There's a tutorial showing the steps on this page.
The next time you reboot the machine, the new kernel will be available in the boot menu.
As I said at the beginning of this piece I was curious to see what sort of improvements were in this release of the kernel. I did find my desktop was slightly more responsive. I tend not to run a lot of intensive tasks at once, so there wasn't much there to improve. I did find my machine woke up from sleep mode and re-connected to the network faster than before and, though I haven't done a strict measurement, I think boot time has improved. With these improvements I was surprised to find my video card's performance had dropped off significantly, making videos choppy and some parts of the screen not display properly. Apparently I wasn't the only one. Have you tried the latest kernel? What were your impressions?
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| Released Last Week |
Parted Magic 6.0
Patrick Verner has announced the release of Parted Magic 6.0, a specialist live CD designed for disk management and data rescue tasks: "Parted Magic 6.0. If you have experienced booting issues with Parted Magic, this is the version you have been waiting for. The way the kernel is handled has been completely redone. This is the reason for the new major version number. The kernel modules, udev, and firmware have been moved to the initramfs. The nice graphical boot menu that we have been using for years has been removed in favor of a very basic one. Many laptops and notebooks could not start the complex menu. A large number of major and minor bugs have been fixed as well. Updated programs: LVM 2.02.84, util-linux 2.19, Linux kernel 2.6.38.2, udev 165, glibc 2.13, xfsprogs 3.1.4, BusyBox 1.18.4, Memtest86 4.20, NTFS-3G 2011.4.12..." Visit the project's news page to read the release announcement.
Epidemic GNU/Linux 3.2
Epidemic GNU/Linux 3.2, a Brazilian desktop distribution based on Debian's "testing" branch, has been released. New features in this version include: eMorph - a new utility which serves as a second system installation step and which allows users to install or remove selected sets of programs, extending or reducing the functionality of the system with just a few mouse clicks; eUpgrade - a new tool which makes it easy to upgrade the distribution to a newer version from the comfort of a graphical application; ePendrive - a utility that allows the user to save changes made to the distribution while running it from a USB storage device; improved, beginner-friendly installer written in C++ and Qt.... Read the detailed release announcement (in Portuguese) to find out more about the release.
Epidemic GNU/Linux 3.2 - a Debian-based desktop distribution with KDE from Brazil
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DEFT Linux 6.1
Stefano Fratepietro has announced the release of DEFT Linux 6.1, a customised distribution of the Ubuntu live CD containing some of the best open-source applications dedicated to incident response and computer forensics: "DEFT Linux 6.1 is ready for download. DEFT Linux 6.1 is the last planned release of the DEFT 6 series. From June 2011 we will start working on version 7. It will feature great improvements of both the architectural structure and the included applications. Release notes: start faster by 15% over the previous version; optimization of initrd; RegTime.py and Recovery.py. Fixed problem of large pcap file uploads in Xplico. Revision of all DEFT extras tools to comply with their licenses. DEFT 6 can boot from USB drives." Here is the brief release announcement.
Incognito Live System 0.7
Incognito Live System is a Debian-based live CD offering complete Internet anonymity for the user. Version 0.7 was released today and is available for free download. What's new? "Tor 0.2.1.30; protecting against memory recovery - new, safer way to wipe memory on shutdown which is now also used when the boot media is physically removed; hardware support - install more printer drivers, support mobile broadband devices such as 3G USB dongles, install Atheros and Broadcom firmware; Iceweasel - install the HTTPS Everywhere extension, many Anonymity Set preservation enhancements, mostly inspired by the Tor Browser Bundle configuration; user-friendly encryption support; add opt-in i2p support with Iceweasel integration through FoxyProxy...." Read the detailed changelog for a full list of new features.
StressLinux 0.7.105
Carsten Schöne has announced the release of StressLinux 0.7.105, an openSUSE-based distribution dedicated to users who want to test their systems on high load and to monitor the health of these systems: "A new StressLinux release (0.7.105) is ready for download. The base system is now openSUSE 11.4 with updated network card drivers for r8101, r8168 and r8169. StressLinux specific packages are updated as well, including BusyBox, iperf, lm_sensors, lshw, Memtest86, Memtest86+, mprime, smartmontools (svn r3314), x86info and y-cruncher. There is one known issue, Memtest86+ is not working from within the ISO images. This seems to be an issue between the new package and the SUSE Studio build system and will be fixed in a later release..." Visit the project's home page to read the brief release announcement.
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
- Kongoni GNU/Linux 2011-beta2, the release announcement
- FreeNAS 8.0-rc5, the release announcement
- Chakra GNU/Linux 2011.04-ms5, the release announcement
- Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Mythbuntu 11.04-beta2, the release announcement
- Clonezilla 1.2.8-26
- BlankOn Linux 7.0-alpha4, 7.0-alpha5
- Estrella Roja 11.04-rc1
- OpenFiler 2.99
- Netrunner 3
- Scientific Linux 4.9-rc1
- PC-BSD Current-20110414
- Sabily 11.04-beta
- RIPLinuX 11.9
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
New distributions added to waiting list
- LDR. LDR (Linux Done Right) is an Arch-based Linux distribution which has many software components pre-configured.
- PLATYPUX. PLATYPUX, built from Linux From Scratch, is an easy-to-use French Linux distribution featuring the Openbox window manager.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 25 April 2011.
Robert Storey, Ladislav Bodnar and Jesse Smith
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Compiling the Linux kernel (by megadriver on 2011-04-18 09:45:47 GMT from Spain)
You can obtain the current kernel configuration file in most distros this way:
zcat /proc/config.gz > .config
One of the main advantages of configuring (make menuconfig) and compiling your own kernel is the possibility of specifying _just_ the drivers your machine needs, and compile everything in (i.e not as modules), dispensing with the need of a separate initial RAM disk.
2 • Puppy (by KC1DI on 2011-04-18 10:04:52 GMT from United States)
Wow your a brave soul, opening once again the dreaded discussion of Puppy and root privileges. I did that some years ago on a puppy list and came away bloodied and worn.
But if I remember right one of the Dev's had posed a way of changing puppy into a more secure platform with users and all. just can't remember where I saw the article.
In any event always like trying out each new puppy. but alas always end up installing a more robust distro after that.
It sure is fast though.
enjoyed the review :)
3 • GRUB 2 (by megadriver on 2011-04-18 10:10:30 GMT from Spain)
And, yeah, GRUB2 sucks! It's not KISS at all.
If you, like me, have simple booting needs, good old LILO (which is being actively developed once again!) is unbeatable!
http://lilo.alioth.debian.org/
4 • Puppy and root priviledges (by Stuart on 2011-04-18 10:17:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
I would like to try a distribution like Puppy, but using root priviledges shows an incredible lack of security awareness.
Does anyone know of similar, but more competent distributions?
5 • puppy roots (by da bug on 2011-04-18 10:26:07 GMT from United States)
of course, it's intended to be run as a live cd - making root moot
6 • Puppy (by Swell on 2011-04-18 10:47:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a great Puppy fan, Robert's extensive review is not only fair & reasonable but goes well beyond with his helpful suggestions. Unlike him, I am a proponent of 'root only' solutions, although I use my own subterfuges to avoid alien invaders. Of course, if you boot to a liveCD written on a CD-R, the chances of being invaded or cloned from session-to-session become vanishingly small. Despite his excellent assessment, Robert is clearly a newcomer to the mutt, so he was unaware of the massive preceding discussions about the finer aspect of the breed archived within the (poorly indexed, but one of the few willing to accept dissent) Murga Forum, the independent Forum and most recently, especially for the cogoscenti, Kauler's personal blog where he describes the minutia and motivation for every coded breath he breathes. And you don't get more value for no charge from ANY other distro, making it the undoubted permanent top ten in Ladislav's page hit rankings.
Too many inadequate reviews of Puppy from ill-informed reviewers - this is not one. Everybody could benefit from trying this one and taking the time to adjust it to their personal taste and requirements. Even the impossible can often be achieved with the amazing help of the army of clever kennel clubbers.
7 • Puppy and kernel (by Carlos on 2011-04-18 10:48:48 GMT from Brazil)
I used to have Puppy on my old eeepc as well, but I guess I am so used to using Debian and Ubuntu with sudo, I think it's weird to use a distro logged in as root... About the endless security debate, I can't say anything because I never had problems at all with Linux ;)...
Oh and great guide to compiling the kernel. That can be a real pain for a noob like me.
8 • Safe as a Puppy (by Lobster on 2011-04-18 10:49:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
Puppy is perfectly secure and recommended for banking
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Security
We also cater for those requiring tinfoil hat levels of paranoia
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=398158#398158
Be Safe Guys
9 • @ Jesse (by Anonymous on 2011-04-18 11:02:13 GMT from United States)
That's great and all, but how are Users supposed to track security updates within the kernel?
10 • root (by guerreau on 2011-04-18 11:28:09 GMT from France)
I boot always as root, thats much cooler ; security problems ? never seen....
please, leave everybody have his personal choice ;-) (what is freedom ?)
AG
11 • @9 (by megadriver on 2011-04-18 11:30:37 GMT from Spain)
1. Download relevant security/update patch
2. Apply patch to kernel source
3. make oldconfig
4. Recompile kernel
5. Install modules (if applicable)
5. Rebuild initial RAM disk (if applicable)
6. Copy kernel image and initial RAM disk (if applicable) to /boot
7. Update boot loader config (if needed)
8. Reboot (finger crossing optional)
9. ...
10. Profit!
12 • Puppy review (by Ryan on 2011-04-18 11:36:19 GMT from Philippines)
i'd like to say a few words about this review. puppy linux is intended to be used as a livecd with the alternate option to create a persistent save file. it is not meant to be installed on a hard disk though the option is there. i believe most of the development is intended in polishing puppy's ability to run from usb drives or any live media than a full blown os installation. most of robert's frustrations with puppy came from not using the system to its intended purposes. read here http://puppylinux.org/main/How NOT to install Puppy.htm
13 • Puppy, a hackers dream.... (by Ron on 2011-04-18 11:44:08 GMT from United States)
I think it is great to have a linux distro out there that has no sense of security and leaves the root wide open. I just wonder how long it will be before people realize they are being suckered into a very bad situation so hackers can use there computer any way or any time without them even knowing about it.
Of course there are many more security risks and only an idiot would say that leaving the root wide open like that, signing in as root account only, is a good and safe thing. You people that believe this are making some criminal hackers really, really happy. Your call and your computer. Do what you will. But I will never run any operating system like that, including Puppy.
14 • Puppy (by Artie on 2011-04-18 11:48:19 GMT from Norway)
Thanks for an interesting review of Puppy 5.2.5. There are many different Puppy versions and the way you described the difference between Wary, Quirky and Lucid was very informative and useful.
I have been playing with Puppies for many years and have used it on many different desktops and laptops and USB sticks. mbr.bin works every time so I recommend everyone to try that one first.
In my opinion Puppy shouldn't really be compared to fullblown distros like Ubuntu. It's a community effort where countless people contribute just for the fun of it and everyone is welcome to chip in or make their own derivatives. People expecting another windows replacement might be disappointed, the rest of us are just having a ball. :-)
For extra software, many of the apps in http://portablelinuxapps.org/ will work just give them a try or check the lists of working apps on the forum.
Artie
15 • Puppy review (by Wine Curmudgeon on 2011-04-18 12:04:39 GMT from United States)
Terrific review. Would that all Linux distro reviews were that thorough, instead of rehashing what's on the website. And your point about installing Puppy is right on. I can't tell you how many times I've had to re-install and re-install it, especially with older hardware.
If, as Artie says in 14, all one wants to do is play with a distro or use it as a rescue or portable distro, there is no need to install Puppy. But since so many people expect a distro to act like Windows and Mac and to be installed, Puppy needs to be installed. My mom would never understand booting from a CD.
16 • Puppy (by Artie on 2011-04-18 12:12:27 GMT from Norway)
The link in 12 on how NOT to install Puppy doesn't work for me. Here's one that works: http://puppylinux.org/main/How%20NOT%20to%20install%20Puppy.htm
17 • My Crunchbang Review and this week's DWW News. (by Landor on 2011-04-18 12:39:29 GMT from Canada)
As I commented last week, I've published my review of Crunchbang today at my blog - http://landorsplace.wordpress.com/ for those that are interested.
-----
I was hopeful that in some way Debian and gNewSense were collaborating on an even more 'Free' Debian. I was disappointed to see in the article that it had been gNewSense only that approached Debian and nothing had been done on the topic.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
18 • Comments to comments ... (by Pierre on 2011-04-18 12:42:05 GMT from Germany)
I think to mention, that Robert used the system not like the developers intended users to make use of it, is... in fact... useless. He even assumes: "Maybe the only thing wrong with Puppy is that users' expectations tend to exceed the developer's intentions."
And that's the point, he knew that his expectations differ from the developer's intentions.
Although I don't see the need for the opportunity to have the ability to install Puppy if it is not intended to be used as hard disk installed system.
How ever, the review was really nice as usuall. I'm always looking forward to Monday and the new review in the DWW. :-)
Good work, keep on!
19 • Open Office (by Eddie on 2011-04-18 12:56:28 GMT from United States)
I know that this does not follow any of the topics this week but I just read this story about Oracle giving up on Open Office and thought everyone would like to read it.
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/04/
20 • RE: 19 (by Landor on 2011-04-18 13:08:32 GMT from Canada)
Not saying that it's false, but I have to actually consider the validity of the article. There was not a link that I could see in the article for Oracle's original statement that they'd be dropping it. Also, something that big would have garnered widespread attention from the community in news and other forms of media, including personal blogs.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
21 • Grub2 (by cba on 2011-04-18 13:19:22 GMT from Germany)
OpenSuse 11.4 also still uses Grub1, not Grub2.
If you want to start e.g. an OS like Haiku via Grub2 and a fresh installed Debian Squeeze, this is an absolut horrible experience.
Grub1 instead is "Haiku-ready" in less than ten seconds.
Maybe Grub2 is still beta?
22 • @20 (by Tony Brijeski on 2011-04-18 13:19:30 GMT from Canada)
Here is the link which was at the bottom of the article.
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Announces...
23 • re #4 a distro like Puppy but safer? (by gnomic on 2011-04-18 13:19:33 GMT from New Zealand)
Hummm, a distro like Puppy . . . well this could be tricky, for better or worse there's nothing quite like Puppy near as I can tell. You could have a look at antiX perhaps, or SliTaz, or Salix. There is a live CD version of SLiTaz at godane.wordpress.com with added apps that has run here for a couple of weeks with no glitches. Or there is porteus at porteus.org. Maybe that could be a Puppy substitute.
24 • Kernel compilation (by Donnie on 2011-04-18 13:44:59 GMT from United States)
@Jesse--You may already know, for for everyone else who's reading. . .
The kernel compilation procedure that you've described only works on certain distros. Debain and Ubuntu have their own completely different way of doing things, which requires a special set of tools. Using the traditional method that you've described for either of these distros will only result in a kernel that you won't be able to install.
25 • Re #23, #4 Alternatives to Puppy (by MarkSouth on 2011-04-18 13:45:03 GMT from Switzerland)
To add to what gnomic says in #23: There are several distros that are playing in the same space as Puppy. Austrumi is always interesting, for one.
Salix and antiX are really meant to be installed, and they are more like lean installs of mainstream distros, as is CrunchBang (reviewed last week, also see Landor's blog post linked in #17).
But there's one that stands out for running on older or less capable hardware: SliTaz. SliTaz is a tiny download, about 30Mb or so, it runs entirely in RAM on nearly anything, and it has a decent selection of packages - which can even be installed for temporary use while running in live mode. For example, I've booted SliTaz live, then installed the Skype package, signed in and made a voice call, and shut down.
SliTaz has an interesting approach to installing proprietary packages or other large sets (like Skype, Java, OpenOffice), the SliTaz package manager installs an installer which then downloads and unpacks the package
It's pretty stable - I've run it for several weeks in live mode, and it only stopped because of a power flicker caused by a lightning storm. By default, it runs as a normal user, and the root account is enabled for doing admin tasks.
As far as running as root: my opinion (for what it's worth) is that it's generally not a good idea, but that if you are going to do it, do it from a liveCD. But be aware of the risks. I think it's fair to say that the Puppy fans have been told of the risk many times, and if they still do it they are doing it with their eyes open. De gustibus non disputandum.
26 • Booting with GRUB? (by zykoda on 2011-04-18 13:53:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
There are issues to which there are compromises to be made. It's only a matter of time before they become more important. Those interested refer to the following.
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6480/1/
27 • Puppy and Kernel (by Jesse on 2011-04-18 14:08:59 GMT from Canada)
@Robert: I enjoyed the Puppy review. Thanks for sharing.
@24: >> "The kernel compilation procedure that you've described only works on certain distros. Debain and Ubuntu have their own completely different way of doing things, which requires a special set of tools. Using the traditional method that you've described for either of these distros will only result in a kernel that you won't be able to install."
That's not true at all. The steps I outlined here were run as shown on a Ubuntu 10.04 test box and the kernel installed and ran without any trouble.
28 • RE: The commerical version (by Eddie on 2011-04-18 14:21:31 GMT from United States)
What may have confused you, and I didn't make that clear, is this pertains to the commercial version of Open Office. The community version, if you can call it that, will still be developed by who ever is left.
29 • RE:Grub2 again? (by Eddie on 2011-04-18 14:44:27 GMT from United States)
I still can't figure out why people are having such a problem with Grub2. No Grub2 does not suck. If you learn how to manage scripts then you won't have any problems with Grub2. Now to be fair I haven't tried Grub2 on all distro so there may be some problems out there, but with what I have tried it on I really have had no problems. This includes MS Windows as well as Linux. Also there are tools like "Grub Customizer" which will let you edit, add, subtract entries, also you can change colors, resolution, and add pictures, and much more all in a nice GUI environment. How much simpler does it have to be?
And to whomever ask the question, No, Grub2 is not still in beta.:)
30 • 26 • Booting with GRUB? (by jack on 2011-04-18 14:46:07 GMT from Canada)
the date of the link given is May 2008
Surely there must have been changes to Grub since that time, which might invalidate some or all of the instructions ?
31 • RE: 22 - 28 (by Landor on 2011-04-18 14:55:24 GMT from Canada)
#22
Thank you. I did see that but ignored it as just some overview of Oracle Inc. This is a reason why I almost never read any news from our community, poorly done. The article hardly spoke of dropping the commercial product in all truth, and the most important aspect, the link to the original statement they made, was marked as 'further reading' after the article was finished, and just labeled 'Oracle'. Very poorly done.
Thanks again.
#28
I had to pause and take in what I was reading again, as I first thought it was about the Open Source version as well.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
32 • Puppy (by imnotrich on 2011-04-18 15:43:33 GMT from Mexico)
I have enjoyed puppies from versions 1 through 4, with 4.3.1 in particular being a work of genius. I've installed them to the hard drive. I've used them as live rescue cd's (on a cd-r, not rw for security sake), and I've installed them as .sfs files in windows partitions. I understand you can also now install them to a usb flash drive though I've never tried it.
One of my bigger gripes with puppy is the limited choice of packages available in their "repos" or in some cases packages that used to work don't work anymore. If you can't count on a program to work with each install, what's the point?
Until now. Starting with the 5 series Puppy now isn't a true "independent" distro in that they use Ubuntu binaries as a foundation and that has opened up the Ubuntu repos. Unfortunately, it also creates more problems than it solves because you have Ubuntu bugs and issues, such as poor video support for NVIDIA, ATI and Intel cards. Plus you're running as root so when things do go bad, they can go really, really bad.
I've had issues with Puppy 5 installs on 4 different machines (three desktops, one laptop) and was only able to salvage one of them - the other three I gave up. My advice to those who want something that "just works" and has fairly good support for wifi including laptop cards stick with Puppy 4.3.1.
33 • Bet on UFC fights (by placebetufc on 2011-04-18 15:59:52 GMT from Germany)
Comment deleted (spam).
34 • Puppy Linux review (by CJ Veniot on 2011-04-18 16:09:24 GMT from Canada)
Hello,
I think the review misses the mark a bit on the "meat and potatoes" purpose of Puppy Linux.
Primarily, Puppy Linux is meant to be booted from CD and/or USB ... a nomadic distribution allowing you to not only carry your data with you, but your applications, your O/S, and your settings. The whole issue of running as Root ... kind of moot.
Secondarily, Puppy Linux can be installed "frugally". I'm sure somebody else can better explain this, but I'll throw my "pre-schooler" view: security-wise, the applications and O/S are contained in an unalterable image (again, Root, not so much of an issue). An upgrade to this kind of install is very easy: just replace the image.
Finally, you can have a traditional install of Puppy Linux, IF YOU REALLY MUST! I would recommend that only for very old (or "special purpose") computers that are disconnected or really don't have "the juice" to handle heavy-lugging on the internet. I've done that with "ASRI Éducation" and "HanSamBen", special versions of Puppy Linux for kids.
From personal experience, using only Puppy Linux for the last four years (always booting from CD), I've had only good experiences.
I think it's a mistake to review Puppy as a traditionally installed O/S to be compared with Ubuntu (or other heavy and traditionally installed O/S.) That's not Puppy's primary purpose.
Puppy should be reviewed as an all-purpose nomadic distribution or a distro to breathe new life into really old computers. As for security: I trust this Live CD distro running as Root much more than any installed distro running as non-Root.
BTW
* grandma won't have any problem booting from CD if you have two CD drives (one for Puppy, and one for everything else);
* before installing Puppy and dealing with problems, isn't it a much better idea to test (Wi-Fi, for example) "Live" ? That's one of the primary benefits of Live CD's.
35 • BTW on Puppy Linux review (by CJ Veniot on 2011-04-18 16:14:22 GMT from Canada)
I can't imagine how much work goes into doing these kinds of reviews. It takes somebody with pretty thick skin to put these together, because you know you'll take a trashing.
So, my previous comments aside, thank-you. Your time and effort are very much appreciated.
All I ask is that, in future reviews, please consider reviewing the "subject" with that "subject's" primary purpose in mind.
Cheers and best regards.
36 • RE: 35 (by Landor on 2011-04-18 17:12:22 GMT from Canada)
'All I ask is that, in future reviews, please consider reviewing the "subject" with that "subject's" primary purpose in mind.'
While I tend to agree with the above statement, it's also not fully correct. Let me explain.
Pointing out something has a primary purpose denotes that it must have secondary purposes as well. Why must it rigidly adhere to just that purpose? Why shouldn't some emphasis be put on its secondary purpose(s)? They are present after all.
I personally don't like stale and bland reviews. I don't like finding something that's be regurgitated by many an author, across many websites/blogs. I prefer the obscure, little known bits of information, or reviews. Anyone can say the round peg fits in the round hole and the square block doesn't.
Besides, my personal opinion is that the recent releases of Puppy do not offer anything up to write a good review about it. That doesn't negate the above truths regarding reviews though.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
37 • Puppy & Wolfer (by Flip23 on 2011-04-18 17:47:35 GMT from United States)
Wanted to thank Distrowatch for turning me on to this distro Wolfer Linux. This little distro has become my distro of choice it is sorta plain, sorta ugly but man does it run! Thank you Jesse for your review I wouldn't have noticed it but for your review.
Now my thoughts on Puppy I do some puter work and was spending lots of money for this program this disc for win, mac especially for programs to recover data. Now I just send monthly donations to Puppy it will shock a lot of people when they find out what you can do with a live Puppy cd . That and Trinity Rescue is all I use now .
38 • @ 4 • Puppy and root priviledges (by Flip23 on 2011-04-18 17:51:51 GMT from United States)
Go to the Puppy forums there are a couple of variants that do offer multi user logins ! I think is Pizza Pup.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=35
39 • re: 36 (by da bug on 2011-04-18 18:24:51 GMT from United States)
to quote from a recent review of crunchbang i saw somewhere or another:
"With reviewing any distribution you really should try to find out what its intentions are, all about it. Meaning, what audience does it intend to reach. What are its goals. How come it’s built the way it is, and why."
it seems it would apply to reviewing puppy, especially as regards live cds and old equipment
40 • @21: GRUB2 and Haiku, etc. (by eco2geek on 2011-04-18 18:30:44 GMT from United States)
Using GRUB2 to boot to Haiku is easy. Say you've got Haiku installed on sda2 (and you've only got one hard drive, to make things easier). Hopefully you told Haiku to install its boot loader to the partition it's installed on, not the MBR. Then, in /etc/grub.d/40_custom, you'd add something like the following:
menuentry "Haiku (on sda2)" {
set root=(hd0,2)
chainloader +1
}
Then run "update-grub".
The advantage of GRUB2 is obvious when you have multiple distros on one computer. If you tell each new distro to install GRUB (1 or 2) to its root partition during installation, then the copy of GRUB that's on the MBR will "pick up" and include them all automagically in its menu each time you run "update-grub". This beats the hell out of manually configuring grub.conf every time you install a new distro, or when one of your distros gets a kernel update.
41 • RE: 36 (by Landor on 2011-04-18 18:38:41 GMT from Canada)
If you noticed in my review http://landorsplace.wordpress.com , I left myself an out with that comment. If you have added that it, it would make a world of difference, and make your comment invalid.
'That’s the respect due to distribution that warrants respect.'
As I stated, I do not believe the recent releases of Puppy, and I should also add, at times the community, offer anything up to write a good review about. Hence, they don't warrant it.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
42 • Puppy Linux review ... about "purpose" (by CJ Veniot on 2011-04-18 19:05:27 GMT from Canada)
Landor: I think I understand where you're going, but...
If I wrote a review about a saw, and how it doesn't work as well as this hammer when it comes to putting this nail in this piece of wood, then I should probably make that point clear.
The article IS good. It just doesn't present it's own purpose clearly: a review of Puppy Linux as a substitute for Ubuntu in the role of a full-featured and heavy distro traditionally installed on a decent piece of hardware.
Obviously, that's not what Puppy Linux is meant for, and the article, rightly, "implicitly" points that out.
Not every Linux distro is appropriate for every scenario. That's the beauty of Linux.
43 • Puppy Linux (by Edward on 2011-04-18 19:05:41 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the review. Puppy Linux is not just another Linux distro, but IS another Linux distro, and the ONLY one of that sort. Ther eis no other distro that can be compared to Puppy Linux.
There is nothing much to confuse the first time user of Puppy Linux, and even when it is installed. Everything is written in good simple English, and people have to read, why not.
The other point is, once Puppy Linux is booted up, the CD is ejected, so if you click "CD" when installing, you just get that notice stating that the CD is not mounted. One has to know what's happening around one and remember that the CD is EJECTED.
No other distro in the Linux world can match or be compared to Puppy Linux!
Having the Puppy Linux Cd (or USB) one can get into any other distro, and nothing can be hidden, whereas, if Puppy Linux blocks any file in it, other distros can'topen that!
44 • da bug (by re: 41 on 2011-04-18 19:15:01 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
45 • Root and regular users (by Sean on 2011-04-18 19:46:43 GMT from Canada)
You know what> On my personal machines, root *IS* my account.. Has been since 1995 and the Slackware CD's my then boss dropped on my desk.
When people start telling me the reasons I shouldn't use root as my account, I tell them I've already read the best practices from Bell Labs, and if they haven't got any material which dates from the current millenium, I'd appreciate it if they would STFU and go stick their nose in someone else's business (since these people patently have no business of their own to mind...)
*I* make the choices for my machines, and plenty of other machines as well. What's important isn't what Bell Labs thought was best practices in 1970. What is important is analyzing the situation, thinking for yourself, and then implementing the best possible solution. Sometimes, that means someone gets to be root. Other times, it doesn't.
In fact, most of those Bell Labs employees would have declined to have included those best practices if they had thought you people would stop thinking about it yourself and just keep parroting their limited, and hurried take on the subject...
46 • re 3 and 40 (and others) (by Woody Oaks on 2011-04-18 19:54:59 GMT from United States)
For multi-boot hard drives simply install a separate Grub 1 to each of the partitions (e.g., sda1, sda2, sda3, sda6) and one distro's Grub 1 (say, sda5) to the hdd's MBR, then on the grub.conf file of that MBR-Grub list the other partitions with chainloading instructions. Switching your default preference in that grub.conf file is a lot easier than juggling priority numbers in Grub2's grub.d directory, and with every distro booting from its own Grub (a Grub 1) each of those Grubs gets automatically updated with every kernel upgrade. Grub 1 was briefly hobbled by 256 byte inodes, but it was soon repaired; Grub 2, in my opinion, should be fixed by a veterinarian.
47 • Puppy (by Robert W. Hayden on 2011-04-18 20:01:56 GMT from United States)
I can't speak to Puppy 5.2.5 or the reviewer's hardware but I have installed many versions of Puppy on many machines and found it to be the distro most likely to work and keep working. I use it to revive my computers after some mightier OS has trashed them.
I think a review of a distro should give a summary of what is new in this version and the goals of the distro. (II know that is not always easy. Many times have I gone to the site of a distro I've read about here and found not a clue as to its intent.) Eternal debates over things like logging in as root, or Emacs versus vi should get at most a sentence or a link, as should any issues peculiar to the reviewer's hardware. Most readers already have a religion and are interested in their own hardware.
These questions of how to write a review are broader than this site. In general, distro reviews tend to address whether the distro suits the reviewer's needs, when the review should address whether the distro meets the needs of those whose needs the distro addresses. So for Puppy the review should be mostly about running it from a CD, with again a possible brief comment about a hard drive install (which Puppy allows but recommends against).
BTW, I use the ability to write a boot floppy as follows. I still have a Pentium 200 box I use to run old DOS and Windows 3.1 software. It will not boot from a CD so I copy the Puppy CD to the hard drive and boot from the floppy. Among other things, I use Puppy to backup the Microsoft partitions to a CD since their old OSs do not burn CDs but Puppy does, even on this hardware. I don't believe Puppy will run on any systems that use cassette tapes for storage but if anyone can provide a counterexample I am sure Puppy will provide support;-)
48 • Puppy, Guess who... (by Ron on 2011-04-18 20:40:42 GMT from United States)
Well I think what is happening is that the majority of people speaking out loudly in the defense of keeping the root wide open like that are the ones who benefit from computers that have little or no security. Then others of course, a few sheep, just follow the loud ones.
Logging in as root is not only the worst idea but just just common sense. If people want something that unsecured just go back to MS Windows or only use that and don't duel boot.
Ok now even with a livecd what is going to stop a hacker from accessing mounted drives and that data? Think it can't happened? Ok, whatever.
49 • Serious Distros (by Anon's Moss on 2011-04-18 22:11:43 GMT from Sweden)
I have noticed, for quite some time now, the use of the term "kiddie distros" (not, as of yet, in this week's comments, though) and I'm all fine with that terminology, and do get the reason behind many distros being referred to as belonging in the "kiddie distro"-category. My question is, what distros are not (generally) considered to be "kiddie distros"? I'd really appreciate if someone could enlighten me. The distros regarded as non-"kiddie distros" seems to be rather few, from what I gather from the comments in this section, as of lately, thus, my humble request wouldn't result in a too long list of non-"kiddie distros", would it?
/Just curious
50 • This weeks review and things... (by davemc on 2011-04-19 01:23:47 GMT from United States)
Most excellent review Robert. Well done. This is the proper way to do a review imo. Good, bad, ugly, you cut to the heart of the Distro and spelled it out well. You spent no time on pointless and needless details like website aesthetics and all your time getting to the meat of the distro. You spent some time covering Puppies deplorable and unprofessional security policy and that was wise. I don’t think Puppy was intended to be a permanent install type of Distro as much as it was meant to be a portable one, so I think the review would have been better targeted in that area, but still, Puppy does give an option for permanent installs, so that is more than fair game.
Great info about the kernel compile. I would like to repeat your consideration for the project Calibre. Please take a look at that app. It is really fantastic and worthy of a DW Donation.
51 • Solution to Quickpet and Pet Packages not running (by Mel on 2011-04-19 02:17:57 GMT from United States)
I also had the problem of many of the Quickpet and Pet pkg’s not running. Then I read somewhere (hidden in small print) that some of these will not run UNTIL you down load the correct video driver. I tried this and now everything runs. (Google Earth, Open Office, Xpad, Gimp, etc.) The video driver auto detection and download are available from a tab on Quickpet. I also remember reading about some versions that had multi-user log in, but have never tried them. I have tried dozens of distros, and so far Puppy is by far my favorite.
52 • Other distributions (by JR on 2011-04-19 03:56:55 GMT from Brazil)
anyone has tried the Epidemic GNU / Linux which is in Released Last Week? There are various tools developed in-house ...
any thoughts?
53 • RE: 52 (by Landor on 2011-04-19 04:09:17 GMT from Canada)
It's been a few years since I've looked at it. I can tell you this though, they do work towards providing a more simple user experience. The result of those tools you spoke of.
It all comes down to fit and usability in the end.
Hope that helps.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
54 • I know this is off topic but huge news... (by Tek Heretik on 2011-04-19 04:30:01 GMT from Canada)
Linux Mint 10 Gnome 64 bit DVD has successfully installed to my 4 HDD Intel ICH10R Raid 0. Go to the Mint forum for what NOT to do during and after the install (titled 'tricky but successful install on ich10r'). I have been waiting 4 1/2 years for this, a distro to install without the command line jungle...I know...lazy b*stard...but I did try before over the years, had no luck. Now I have to keep my word and give them a donation. Thanks Linux Mint and Distrowatch, I am finally free of that oppressive software corporation I don't even want to mention by name. =)
55 • Sucess compiling Kernel for PCLinuxOS and Pppy Linux (by Tony on 2011-04-19 06:25:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Many thanks for clear instructions. Strangely I have never have any success compiling a program to run under Linux but with your excellent guide I managed to compile a fully working kernel! Gives me hope I might one day have success compiling an actual program!
Puppy Linux is excellent and I use it for older machines, it often works with laptops when other distros won't and has worked more reliably than parted magic for my partitioning needs. Lighthouse Puppy is I feel a more powerful and polished version of the base Puppy (Obviously a lot bigger) and well worth a test drive.
56 • Root (by Swell, reprise on 2011-04-19 07:13:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Probably isn't going to be the last word, but here is a warning:
If you intend to download pirate videos, music, etc,
if you intend to visit porno or paedo sites,
if you intend to meet Russian brides,
if you live in the US (or anywhere else without an NHS!) and want to buy drugs on-line from illegal or even unknown vendors
if you click on stuff willy-nilly eg before your morning tea/coffee,
if you let other folks, including infants, juniors and especially teens (your boss/CEO?!) anywhere near YOUR computer,
then it's probably a bad idea to run as root.
57 • Root (by Swell, reprise, PS on 2011-04-19 07:21:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
or:
if you visit any site controlled by you-know-who's OS or use their hotmail
58 • Root (by macias on 2011-04-19 08:28:43 GMT from Poland)
or:
* you are simply tired -- one mistake too far, and you can lose your system
I prefer not only using apps are regular user but also to put most of them in sandboxes (I didn't manage to do this, though).
59 • Root or not (by megadriver on 2011-04-19 09:16:33 GMT from Spain)
I'd say doing any of the stuff mentioned in @56 and @57 is, in general, a bad idea, root or not!
Remember, folks... "Common sense" is the best "security software" available.
60 • Various (by Pedantic Anonymous on 2011-04-19 09:44:22 GMT from United States)
"I know that Puppy likes to support old hardware, but I'm not sure it's still possible to even buy floppy disks."
Give me a break.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=floppy+disks
"And you'll need either mkinitramfs or mkinitrd, depending on your distribution."
No you don't. I don't have either installed, and I compile kernels all the time. Initial ram disks exist mostly to store drivers required to boot that are not built into the kernel - primarily for the hard drive and filesystem, but in the case of an NFS root partition, the network interface driver (and possibly a dhcp client), as well. For the vast majority of people (meaning those with reasonably modern desktops or laptops and a local root filesystem), putting the following line in the .config (and also making sure the root filesystem driver is build into the kernel) will obviate the need for an initial ram disk.
CONFIG_ATA_PIIX=y
"On machines using the GRUB boot loader, we can run the following as root:
update-grub"
I don't have that, either. Must be a grub 2 thing.
"zcat /proc/config.gz > .config"
If the kernel was compiled with that option. I simply store my .configs in /boot rather than actually build them into the kernel.
By the way, this page:
http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/
is quite handy as far as gathering the list of drivers necessary for a particular machine. If you are actually going to compile a kernel, it usually makes sense to only build the necessary drivers for that machine (I strongly prefer actually building them into the kernel rather than as modules), instead of building every driver for every linux supported computer in history.
61 • @56 (by Ron on 2011-04-19 10:43:18 GMT from United States)
You make it sound like the only people that do not want to run things as root are doing questionable or illegal things. Please.... That is as bad as saying the government can watch everything you do because if you are not doing anything wrong then it will be ok (or safe.) That is beyond naive.
62 • Root - Ron (by Swell on 2011-04-19 11:28:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Can you read, Ron? What you say is selective - read ALL of my text. Your No.13 was equally inappropriate.
Apart from which, Carnivore & Echelon. Everything you do is watched. It keeps us (relatively) safe from despots, tyrants and zealots, inter alia. My guess is that the CIA knows the exact co-ordinates of eg Ahmadinejad every minute of the day.
63 • Puppy Linux (by mechanic on 2011-04-19 11:30:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
I don't think it's at all unrealistic to compare PL with mainstream desktop distros. If your netbook has a hard disk why not install the OS to it, it's a reasonable expectation. I thought in the 21st century we had got beyond the idea of designing products just to satisfy the developers, products should be tailored to meet the needs of users and not the other way round (users adjust their expectations to meet the product's design)! I've tried PL a couple of times and never got beyond the stage of installing Chromium to a PL system installed to a USB key. After a short time the system hangs needing a cold reboot, and this was repeatable.
PL looks nice/different but that's about it. Come to that the same can be said about MeeGo!
64 • Running as 'root'. (by mechanic on 2011-04-19 11:37:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think anyone connected to the Internet (or the company WAN) whilst running as 'root' is risking loosing his machine to the bad guys, soon rather than later. If you must do this reinstall your system from a clean source frequently and change login passwords often, using strong ones!
Don't become a zombie!
65 • It would be nice ... (by Coffee on 2011-04-19 12:52:00 GMT from France)
... if DistroWatch had a page with links to all of Jesse's very useful Tips & Tricks articles. As it is now one has to navigate backwards through the weekly issues which makes older articles practically inaccessible. With a dedicated links page all of the articles would be just a click away. The whole thing doesn't have to be anything sophisticated ... just a list of headlines. Whether they're sorted alphabetically or by date doesn't really matter. I think, such an ever growing collection with nuggets of GNU/Linux wisdom would make an attractive new feature for the DistroWatch website. Good idea?
The same applies of course to the weekly distribution reviews. But unlike Tips & Tricks reviews age and become less interesting over time.
66 • RE: 65 Tips and tricks (by ladislav on 2011-04-19 13:10:10 GMT from Taiwan)
It's all here: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php. The headlines include the tips and tricks - it's usually the last item in each headline.
67 • RE:56 running Puppy as root (by Noob on 2011-04-19 14:55:38 GMT from Hong Kong)
If I am behind my Linksys E4200 router , then how can running Puppy Linux as root be so risky ? How can a hacker break through the firewall setup in a Linksys E4200 router ? Can someone please help me ,thanking you in advance , Puppy Linux lover.
68 • More Root musings (by Rick on 2011-04-19 15:28:06 GMT from United States)
@56 Simple solution: use Puppy for your everyday computing, and Incognito for buying drugs for your illegally downloaded underage Russian brides! ("I'm behind seven proxies" meme optional). Then you don't even need a hard drive!
...
As far as running root as your primary account, seems pretty silly to go out of your way to do this. The only advantage I'd see is not having to sudo to install software/run a package update/edit system config files, but that's not something that gets in the way of everyday use. (Although to be fair, if that is what your everyday use consists of, I guess it'd be worth the trouble.)
69 • RE: 66, Tips and tricks (by Coffee on 2011-04-19 15:40:27 GMT from France)
Thanks for your reply. Yesss, this is exactly what I've been looking for. Great! But I can't find a link to the DWW index on the DW homepage or on the individual DWW pages ... so, I've bookmarked it.
70 • Firewalls and such (by Jesse on 2011-04-19 17:28:38 GMT from Canada)
>> "If I am behind my Linksys E4200 router , then how can running Puppy Linux as root be so risky ? How can a hacker break through the firewall setup in a Linksys E4200 router ? Can someone please help me ,thanking you in advance , Puppy Linux lover."
There are a couple of ways. One would be to exploit a flaw in the router's firewall to send packets through. Another way would be to take over the router and adjust it so it doesn't block attacks against whatever is inside the network. Routers for home networks tend to have very poor security and are rarely kept up to date with security fixes.
And, of course, if any of your programs (web browser, e-mail client, chat program, etc) talks to an outside machine then the firewall won't protect you from exploits that target those programs.
Granted, if you're running Puppy from the CD and you do not have a hard drive in your computer, then you're pretty safe. However, if your machine does have a hard drive then it's trivial to mount it and infect it if an exploit is achieved while you're running as root.
Running as root is a problem if you have storage devices or data attached to the machine because the root account can do whatever it wants with the devices attached to the computer. This applies both to attackers or a legitimate user who makes a typo.
On the other hand, if you have a machine with no storage and you want to run as root from a live disc, then you're pretty safe.
71 • Still more fun with Debian Squeeze slug bug (by imnotrich on 2011-04-19 18:13:02 GMT from Mexico)
Hello again!
In a previous post I described a bug with Squeeze and Skype regarding lack of webcam recognition, and the script I had to use as a workaround. I'm pleased to report the new version of Skype for Linux 2.2.0.25 has corrected this problem, and you can hotplug your cam now too! Un-bug!
Now to some other issues.
Not all installs will create menu items and/or desktop launchers. It doesn't seem to matter if you install using Synaptic, command line, gdebi, or through wine. You can right click on "applications" and select edit menus. Sometimes editing menus works, and sometimes it does not. Worked fine in Lenny. BUG!
Potato Guy - you can drag, but you can't drop. The potato guy's pieces don't stick where you place them. Worked fine in Lenny. BUG!
DosBox 0.74 - When trying to install the 7th guest for DOS, at the end of the install you are directed to insert disk 1 to play the game (because the install is actually on disk 2). When you eject disk 2, DosBox unmounts the cd-rom drive and does not auto-mount when you insert disk 1 and causes Debian to lock up. Control-Alt-Backspace does not let you escape. You have to unplug the computer's power cord. BUG! The workaround is (after a couple reboots because the abrupt shutdown corrupted gnome) once 7th guest is installed, don't insert the 2nd disk. Go straight to the 1st disk and play.
Also - sometimes the auto mount feature thinks 7th guest is an audio cd and opens an audio player. BUG!
Wine 1.0.1-3.1 again (still waiting for the wine maintainer to update this package) will install Dasher (an online chess client for use with ICC) and start to run - but as soon as the female voice says "welcome to the Internet Chess Club" the program crashes out. Dasher's website claims it runs with Wine. I have not found a fix for this yet. BUG!
Yes, I know about eboard but the version of eboard in the repos does not include timeseal, causing any internet lag between you, the game server, and your opponent to be counted against you. BUG!
Again, standard disclaimer. I recognize some of these bugs are not entirely the fault of Debian Squeeze. But anybody who tells you Squeeze "just works" is fibbing. I'm still unable to use my internal sd/media card reader, and I have other hardware/software I haven't tried yet for lack of time.
Stay tuned for updates.
72 • @71 (by fernbap on 2011-04-19 18:35:37 GMT from Portugal)
wine - The version in debian repos is a joke, perhaps because wine releases are never marked as "stable". It is too outdated to be usefull to anything. You can simply add the repo from winehq.org and install the latest release. No biggie at all, winehq gives you all the instructions you need.
Regarding chess server clients:
Dasher - try it with a decent wine version. it works, BUT you should be aware that Dasher includes spyware in order to collect data from your computer.
Blitzin - works flawlessly, at least all times i tried it. It also includes spyware to identify your machine.
Jin - It is a java client, so it is platform independent, supports both FICS and ICC protocols.
Raptor - a new project. Still in beta, but very promising and linux native.
As i play at FICS, i use the one that is for me the best chess client ever, Babaschess, under wine. That is in fact the only windows app i use.
73 • Re @72 (by imnotrich on 2011-04-19 22:01:35 GMT from Mexico)
Thanks for the recommendation of Raptor - Tried it this afternoon. Very cool! I'd like to put the chessboard in the center of the screen instead of left justified - I'm old but both eyes still work! And I'd like to turn off the red arrow and some of the obnoxious sounds (especially the lady counting down my time) but other than that Raptor is excellent, and timeseal too!
I knew Dasher and Blitzen installed spyware, it's my understanding the intent is to catch chess cheaters but like any good rootkit you never know what's going on under the surface.
I've tried Jim in Chrome and found it a little clumsy.
+1 re Babaschess. I've run it under 98, XP, Vista, 7, and with WINE never had a problem. Excellent stuff.
74 • Puppy (by Bert on 2011-04-19 22:03:24 GMT from Belgium)
Puppy is a distro anyone should have..
Also installed.
Years ago there was Damned Small Linux.
Noweadys we have Puppy, and really: any Puppy is a full system.
Puppy 5.2.5 really is state of the art.
I do have a problem with Puppy with one of my computers that sems to be due to the hardware, But nevertheless: puppy is a small and full distro that loads like a charm.
A distro everyone should have laying around.
Really.
75 • Kubuntu Natty (by KevinC on 2011-04-20 01:42:54 GMT from United States)
DL'ed and installed the beta 2 of Kubuntu Natty and it's actually pretty decent. Few bugs, here and there, but overall not bad. Not quite up to OpenSUSE 11.4 standards yet, but I'm really liking KDE 4.x now...didn't think I'd ever say that. Nice to know that since it appears Gnome and Unity are not gonna be ready for prime time for some time...it's good to know there are nice alternatives available---this could be a major win for KDE.
On other topics, nice review of Puppy, tho I have no old hardware to really justify experiment, interesting review.
To Landor---good review of #!...good job--well done.
76 • Puppy and more. (by OldTimer2 on 2011-04-20 03:12:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good review of Puppy.
I have heard people rave about Puppy for 6+ years, yet I never cottoned to it, that is despite having tried everything from Slackware 3.0, Corel, SCO, early Redhat, Suse 5.0, Mandrake, DSL and most in between.
I end up coming back to AntiX, PCLinuxos Mini me, Mint and Arch.
They are professional.
Whereas Puppy is, to my way of thinking, a hobby distro, nice if you like it, but rough around the edges, with design quirks and silly ways of doing things.
If you like it, that's fine, but it could be so much better, might try it again when it reaches version 10....
I think two distros have real potential, SliTaz and Tiny Core, they are ones to watch
77 • On distros (by userconfused on 2011-04-20 03:20:57 GMT from Sweden)
Have been using the imfamous Puppy for some years now, not even a "kiddie-distro" from what I gather around here, rather an "infant-distro" - by default running as root. Have also, as of lately, been running an "adult" distro (a RHEL clone, if that really is to be considered a non-"kiddie-distro", as it's so simple to install and run that a mere kid could do it).
Anyway, yesterday I took the chance of installing another, from what I perceived, non-"kiddie-distro"; slackware-current. Accepted most of the default options while installing it - mostly kept accepting and pressing ENTER, and I was left with a full installation, running as password-less root, and I don't even know how to start the firewall in this distro.
I guess that makes me the "kiddie-user", or does it make slackware the "careless adolescent" distro?
FWIW, in Puppy I'm installed, password-protected, and behind a firewall within a minute, while after installing slackware-current, I'm still rather unprotected, due to my being a "kiddie-user" after running for quite some time now (pulled the ethernet cable, while scratching my head, wondering how to protect myself from the evil outside world).
I will find out, eventually, the ins and outs of this slackware distro (which I do like, btw) - I hope.
78 • Kernel 2.6.38 (by JD on 2011-04-20 07:10:58 GMT from United States)
I tried kernel 2.6.38 by downloading it from kernel.org and thne following Ubuntu wiki to compile new kernel to generate the .deb packages. It threw fit on me because of some Ubuntu way of naming custom kernel with "+" sign. After tweaking few items on one build file I was able to compile and generate two required packages with option of 'yes ""| make oldconfig' and used to generate config file at first.
Although the labor paid off as it made my desktop really snappy now. Video plays without stopping and I can do other tasks without having blurs or slowness. Difference on my test desktop is very visible as it used to be slow I tend to use other desktop for my day to day work. This kernel made it enjoyable enough. When you build it with old config make sure new task scheduler is chosen to be implemented. New scheduler is the one which is everyone talking about. I also got away with just copying those deb file to my netbook and I saw difference there too.
Hope this will help enough to gather courage to compile it and try it out.
JD
79 • confused user #77 (by Rudolf Steiner on 2011-04-20 11:13:29 GMT from United States)
@77 There is no way in hell you ended up without a root password in Slackware during a vanilla install!
Obviously you didn't read a damn thing during the install process. This link http://www.howtoforge.com/the_perfect_desktop_slackware12 illustrates the exact place you were prompted to enter a password. Even telling you that none exists at this time and then, you would have had to chosen no to not enter one. Now who's the adoloscent???
Stop the BS we all know better.
RS
80 • @77 (by notsure on 2011-04-20 16:25:10 GMT from United States)
Slackware assumes you either
a) know what you are doing or (ie. your passwordless root is your fault
b) are willing to learn
firewall can be generated here:
www.slackware.com/~alien/efg
just fill in your specs, save as /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall
chmod +x /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall
firewall will now be started at next boot
81 • Thanks Jesse (by noob distro hopper on 2011-04-20 23:21:54 GMT from United States)
Jesse said "Running as root is a problem if you have storage devices or data attached to the machine because the root account can do whatever it wants with the devices attached to the computer. On the other hand, if you have a machine with no storage and you want to run as root from a live disc, then you're pretty safe."
I appreciated this explanation. This solves one half the my question. But the other half is:
Lets say hackers are targeting your bank or favorite online retail store. You are using puppy on a live CD entering your SSN or credit card number into this site. Granted your screwed either way, but would logging in as root matter less or more?
82 • Re: Banking (by Jesse on 2011-04-20 23:41:32 GMT from Canada)
@81:
>> "Lets say hackers are targeting your bank or favorite online retail store. You are using puppy on a live CD entering your SSN or credit card number into this site. Granted your screwed either way, but would logging in as root matter less or more?"
In this scenario I'm not sure if you're suggesting your computer has been hacked or the merchant/bank website has been taken over, or if the attacker is just sniffing network traffic... However, if the attacker is just after the data you're sending over the wire, then it won't really make any difference who you're logged in as. Once the data leaves your computer it's not affected by your local account permissions. So being root on your machine doesn't help you more or less if you're willingly sending your personal data to another computer.
The risk I would see in such a situation is, if the bank/merchant website is compromised, then they may attack your web browser when you connect to their website. The server may exploit a hole in your browser, giving the attacker access to your machine.
I hope that helps.
83 • Thanks again Jesse (by noob distro hopper on 2011-04-21 00:05:07 GMT from United States)
Yes it helps because it seems running puppy as root is not that big of deal and has the same online risk as any other distro. As for desktops or laptops, use it as a live CD or with very limited storage like a 2g USB stick and you lessen the risk. Which seems is the original intent from the web site.
I'll give it a try, but like the reviewer I'm on a combination of wireless and and broadband connections only. Which is usually my stumbling block when try new stuff. I sort of wish every distro had network manger. Its noob friendly and I'm online in like 2 seconds. Topic for another day, I guess.
84 • got root? (by Jesse on 2011-04-21 00:51:04 GMT from Canada)
@83:
>> "Yes it helps because it seems running puppy as root is not that big of deal and has the same online risk as any other distro."
The difference is, if you account gets compromised when you're surfing as root, then your whole machine is compromised. If you your account is hijacked as a regular user, then it's just that account's files that are in the hands of the enemy.
Running as a regular user account also saves you from mistakes, typos and such. There's a small, but very important difference, between running "cd /usr" and "rm /usr", for example.
Personally I'd recommend against running as root, because security is largely about layers. Not being root gives you one more layer between your machine and problems. It's like wearing a helmet when riding a bicycle. Yes, it can be a little inconvenient sometimes and you might never be in an accident, but it's usually a good idea to wear the helmet in case something does go wrong.
85 • @83 (by Candide on 2011-04-21 02:02:15 GMT from Taiwan)
"As for desktops or laptops, use it as a live CD or with very limited storage like a 2g USB stick and you lessen the risk. "
It might be worth noting that netbooks don't have a CD drive. Yes, you can use a USB memory stick on a netbook, but since that's a writable device (which a CD is not), that's really no different than having Puppy installed on a hard drive. All the security issues that apply to a hard drive install also apply to a USB stick install.
86 • Another noob question (by noob distro hooper on 2011-04-21 03:04:02 GMT from United States)
How hard is it to add user privileges to a distro and make it on by deafault? Is it a space issue or programing headache? Is seems that if that is the major problem most people have, just write it in.
So I googled user privilege, su and sudo and after some reading, im kinda shocked. Such a easy and common sense concept. I think i actually get the animosity towards puppy now.
87 • Puppy stuff (by Shankar on 2011-04-21 06:27:03 GMT from India)
Just a few clarifications (I was a puppy user for four years before switching to Debian for other reasons):
1. Puppy can be installed to the hard drive, but with two different methods. Unlike what the reviewer says, a full install - the type he chose - is NOT preferable and in fact is recommended against in the Puppy documentation. The preferred type of install on all devices - USB or hard drive - is a frugal install, where the system files etc. remain in the compressed read only SFS file and only your personal data is in the pup save file.
2. In that sense, as Adam Williamson pointed out a long time ago, Jesse's distinction - "The difference is, if you account gets compromised when you're surfing as root, then your whole machine is compromised. If you your account is hijacked as a regular user, then it's just that account's files that are in the hands of the enemy" - is actually moot in a Puppy frugal install in which ONLY personal files are on the pup save file. Because in such an install it's only your personal files that are writable.
That said, I have to say to my fellow Puppy lovers (and myself) - how often is your save file only your personal data files? Every program we install is in the save file and therefore writable. It remains true that the system can be restored to clean condition simply by deleting the save file, but would you do that if you didn't know you had been compromised?
3. As has been pointed out several times, the comparison of Puppy with Ubuntu etc. seems inappropriate. Indeed, I feel about 90% of Linux distro reviews that I read are of no help to me as a reader, because they concentrate on telling me how that distro fares on things that every distro can do - which means there's no reason for me to switch anyway. It might be good, if in addition to the usual stuff, a reviewer told us what is exceptional or unusual about a distro. In Puppy's case that includes excellent portability - it is designed from the ground up to be portable and used on flash drives. The packages are kept small, the system automatically protects your drive from excessive writes if it detects that it's running on flash, there are tools to protect your save file from file system corruption, etc. These advantages are appreciated by those like me who use portable systems, and despite trying the "persistent" versions of many "big" distros, I have never found one that works as well as Puppy in this respect.
It would be good to see aspects like these highlighted in reviews as well, since this is the kind of information that is useful in choosing a distro.
88 • Puppy and root (by Luc on 2011-04-21 11:05:40 GMT from Brazil)
Puppy is an intelligent distro, and running as root is excellent proof of that.
The concept of root is very necessary in multi-user server environments, in fact that's what Linux still is, an operating system written from scratch for server environments. But Linux has been dragged into the desktop arena, and people who don't exercise their brains very much insist on enforcing server paradigms that become foolish on the desktop. For example, making everything a server (starting with X, the graphical environment, a huge and slow monstrosity). Another example, screaming and hitting one's own head in panic like Rain Man whenever someone is caught running a Linux desktop logged in as root. Oh, and the obligatory hyperboles, like "running as root is a huge disastrous OMG gaping wide security threat!!!!!!1!!11!!"
Just get over yourselves. Millions (billions?) of people used Windows 95/98 as root for half a decade and yes, they had viruses, but mostly because all viruses were written for Windows. Running Linux, you automatically sidestep that threat 99%. Running commands by mistake? That is rare, and when it happens, running '$ sudo wreck_system' will not prevent anything. Now people run XP, Vista and 7 logged in as the Administrator and the sky has not fallen. Windows machines still get infected, but probably less because people are more aware of it and take precautions.
Also foolish is the argument that running as an ordinary user the system isn't affected, just my personal files. Well, personal files are the ones that DO matter to me. I don't care about the system files, I can always get them back with reinstallation. So that whole concept of not running as root doesn't help me at all.
Finally, the Linux community never gets tired of chanting the "freedom" mantra, but will thread roughshod on it whenever it decides that freedom is inconvenient to its religious devotion. Decide to run as root and suddenly your freedom is no longer worth a damn. You must do as the sect tells you or else! The Linux community is horribly disparaging and sanctimonious, keeps taking childish potshots at whoever dares use a different operating system or take different decisions, and preaching to all and sundry as if assigned by God.
It's high time this community finally grew up. Just grow up. Windows may be a bad operating system in many aspects, but holy cow, I never have with Windows users the kind of "social" and behavior problems I have with Linux users routinely. I love Linux, but I often hate, despise the Linux community. What a huge bunch of impolite, maladjusted brats. Stop acting like idiots. Grow up. Dispense your advice once in a while, but do not pound and hammer your points of view onto other people, and under any circumstance, do not, DO NOT EVER twist people's arms and force them to do anything. That is hideous, disgusting, unforgiveable. Stop repeating mantras mindlessly. Just grow up.
89 • Robert's reviews (by jmirles on 2011-04-21 12:27:34 GMT from United States)
Great review on Puppy Linux, Robert. While I understand that it is not meant for a full installation, the capability exists, so you tested that method. I have always loved the small distros like Puppy and DSL. Puppy was my favorite until I found Tiny Core. I never ran it as Root, as it was simple to add a user. Still I understand your point.
@88, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. People ask, why not run as Root and others simply answer. The answers are clear and concise, but no one is saying if you don't do this my way you are stupid or anything like that. You mention Windows and make some really out of this world statements about it. Did you know the "Mom and Pop" computer stores make their living cleaning Windows boxes? I mean they get more infected PC's to clean than PC in for hardware repair. Best Buy's Geek Squad is making a killing on cleaning infected Windows boxes. I support Windows PC at my job and I see more problems when the users figure out how to gain Admin access on their PC's. Don't get me wrong, I love Windows. It has given me something very rare nowadays, Job Security.
Simply put, running as Root can be dangerous. Running as a user can be just as dangerous if you are careless. It's your choice. The community is doing its job on alerting you to the pitfalls one way or another.
Finally, Caitlyn where are you?!
90 • re #83 wish puppy had network manager (by gnomic on 2011-04-21 13:39:43 GMT from New Zealand)
Or was it wish every distro had network manager? Well, as far as Puppy goes, hard to get much simpler than their Simple Network Setup. Even the older network setup script isn't rocket science (though I haven't done a click count versus NetworkManager) - both methods seem pretty foolproof these days in Puppy. Main problem I see with wireless these days is absent requisite firmware in /lib/firmware, which is easily detected by $dmesg | grep firm. However Puppy has a pretty comprehensive firmware selection.
91 • Tuxmachines.org down... (by Caraibes on 2011-04-21 15:08:25 GMT from Dominican Republic)
It has been about 3 days that www.Tuxmachines.org is down...
Does any of you has info on that ?
What happens to Susan Linton ?
I certainly hope she is ok...
92 • #88: Puppy and Root.. (by Mark Pace on 2011-04-21 15:43:12 GMT from United States)
Obrigado para seus pensamentos extremamente bem dito Luc.
93 • Puppy and root (by fernbap on 2011-04-21 16:21:21 GMT from Portugal)
Personally, i love Puppy. It is one of the cutest toys you can find in the Linux universe. Puppy was always fun to play with.
However, what is Puppy's main strength is also his main weakness. Puppy was thought as a live CD in the first place, a "portable operating system" you can take with you and run anywhere. That alone is enough to justify puppy's popularity.
Puppy was also thought as an OS that you can run concurrently with another OS and be used as a rescue disk for broken windows installs. I have no doubt that this is one of the major uses for Puppy.
Puppy is, without a doubt, a very useful tool that everyone should have and use. Burn a CD or an unused pendrive with Puppy, and you are ready to go.
However, Puppy is also a victim of its own popularity, "growing into a full desktop system".... well, not quite. Of course, noone is preventing you from using it as your main working desktop, but for that you have a lot of more adequate choices.
Its main drawback, as a desktop system, is the lack of a central repository for all the available pet packages. They are preaded all over, many inside user forums. I understand that mantaining a repository has a cost, and i'm not blaming puppy for the lack of it.
Puppy inherited all the basic concepts used for developing a rescue live CD disk. Hence the login as root.
Of course, this is an issue that any linux user can overcome easily. There is nothing preventing him from creating a normal user account and using it. In fact, that should be a choice to be added to the puppy install, and that would defenitly shut up those that cry in outrage "OMG! A linux distro that logs in as root! Blasphemy!".
Puppy is puppy. As many "different" linux distributions, first you need to understand its concepts and purposes in order to fully understand it.
As i said before, i love Puppy, although i don't use it as my main working environment, but i always take a pendrive with puppy with me.
94 • @86 I'm curious myself. (by Stacy on 2011-04-21 22:25:27 GMT from United States)
How many more lines of code will have to be be added to puppy's 128MB distro to add normal user account?
I heard about this root access flame war thing for years. To me, ignoring the main complaint about your product for years has a certain arrogance to it. With that said, I hope there is a real technical reason not to include normal user accounts after all these years.
If its trivial amount of code then puppy's developers, maintainers, and outspoken die-hard fans are relishing in that arrogance. Thus being trouble makers for the hell of it. Which is really sad for something so minor!!!
95 • Live distros in the desktop and loging as root (by Anonimuos Coward on 2011-04-21 00:35:04 GMT from Spain)
As many have said before me, is not completly fair to test a Live distribution in an HDD-install environment. However, it is interesting to note that many Live distributions can perform extremly well when used as traditional operating systems, so this review makes some sense after all.
That said, a frugal installed Puppy has little to do if you compare it with a frugal installed Knoppix, for example (yeah, this one needs a little grub2 tweaking, but is worth it!). The reason is that Puppy was designed to be somehow small and portable, while Knoppix is designed to have lots of software in it. That is the cause for Knoppix to be so damn slow when working from the CD, but when you remaster it and run it from the hard drive (frugaled), you get all the power of Debian with the advantages of a Live system, including unmutability. I'm not saying that using a frugal installed Knoppix as a main OS is a good idea, (it can have some problems, like paswordless accounts and the like), but you get the point.
There is a tool for each task. Puppy was not intended to be installed to a hard drive, and that is all. Please, note I'm not defending Puppy. In fact, it is interesting for frivolous use, but I find it more limited and buggy than the ones I use for serious purposes.
Now, to the root vs non-root flame.
I wouldn't use root for my everyday computing live, because of the reasons that many have already posted. I simply think that, if you don't need to take the risk, you should't take it. The first thing I do with Live CDs is to set passwords for every account, then set the firewall, then turn on networking.
Did you know that most Black Hats won't try to hack your computer for the information you keep, or for the fun of destroying your files? They mostly try to seize computers to gather resurces for other dirty tasks. They will root as many computers they can to launch DoS atacks againts third parties, or simply to spread spam. Yes, if they compromised your non-root account, they could surely toast your porn movies and copirighted downloaded stuff, but most probably they won't because Black Hats are in your computer for a non so fivoluos reason. Vandalism would reveal their presence, and they don't want that. And, probably, they'd have problems trying to launch their DoSes and spam messages from a regular user account. If your root account was compromised, then they still could toast your files, but in addition they could spread their spam too!
The barrier that protects your domestic computer when the account in use has been hacked is the permission system. If the afected account is called "root", then that barrier disapears. I myself have invested too much time setting up my security meassures (intruder detection, firewalling, regular integrity checking, etc) to screw it away because of a missused superuser account.
That said, if you are careful enough, there should be not so much trouble in using root. The likeness of your Live CD being seized is reduced when you are behind a firewall which is opened only for "secure" operations. However, why taking the risk, when the only cost of the additional security is to type "sudo" or "su -c" from time to time?
96 • re:86 , 94 etc puppy and root (by dopher on 2011-04-21 00:36:32 GMT from Belgium)
Please people, I am reading some real disturbing responses and attacks. I can't imagine that I am the only one here who finds that a bit annoying and narrow minded. the remarks contain the words "arrogance" up to the remark with the work "animosity"
If you do not like puppy linux, or the fact that it uses root as main account, then don't use puppy linux. But do not act like you paid for the product, and it is not satisfactory.
Barry Kauler is working day and night on developing Puppy Linux and realizing his ideas about software. He also shares a lot of his stuff AND encourages AND is helping youngsters to start developing. Qll this without getting paid for it. You could at least respect that. I know I do.
Apparently his work is not appreciated by some, as some of the remarks show. And it's okay to ventilate your ideas about it. But that can be done in a more pragmatic, but still respectable, way.
97 • RE: 96 (by Landor on 2011-04-22 02:20:16 GMT from Canada)
From what I understand Barry 'is not' working day and night on Puppy Linux anymore. He's pursuing his own interests. The only time he builds something Puppy specific is when it's to be more compatible with older hardware. Something he has to do because the new team is not.
Also, I would say that leaving a gaping security hole in your system, no matter how much you do otherwise for people, the community, is pretty arrogant. Especially when he's well aware of the security risks and left it as is.
It wouldn't take much for Barry, or the community to incorporate adding a user to an install, etc But it's pretty well ignored. That's arrogant.
I also see a few people saying 'Puppy is not meant to installed to a hard drive'. Do you realise what you're all saying? The option is there right? How can anyone say it wasn't meant to when it can do it. Seriously. Stop making excuses for something that's broken by design, period.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
98 • RE 97 Arrogance in the puppy community? (by CJ Veniot on 2011-04-22 04:33:09 GMT from Canada)
Landor, you are kidding, right? No?
Let me get this straight. A group of people put together a Linux distro with a specific purpose in mind, and because they do it a certain way to fit the goals of the distro/project and refuse to make changes that contradict with those goals, that makes them arrogant?
It's no wonder Linux in general gets a bad rap. These comments from the "high and mighty" do the entire Linux community a huge disfavor.
Attacking the contributions and goals of a project and attacking the approach taken by that project, says a heck of a whole lot more about the people doing the attacking: What Peter says about Paul says more about Peter than it does about Paul. (There may be some valid points in what you say, but you lose all credibility because of "how" you say. That's too bad.)
In these posts, I'm seeing an awful lot of immaturity, lack of decency, lack of respect, and lack of appreciation for what Linux is really all about: FREEDOM OF CHOICE !!!
If Puppy Linux fits my specific needs because of the way it is designed (because of it's reason for being), then it's hardly broken from my perspective. I don't want this distro to be like the other ones. (Gee, sorry if that makes me "arrogant"...)
Although not meant to be installed in the "traditional way" (to a hard drive), we are fortunate to have that option to handle odd-ball (exceptional) needs that other distros simply do not handle as well: a friendly distro with low requirements.
If Puppy Linux does not fit your specific needs, then isn't it enough to just say it does not meet your specific needs?
My purpose for writing this: I don't like to see any efforts (and people) from any Linux project get criticized unfairly (without just cause)... that undermines the entire open source movement.
Those of you who do want to criticize the Puppy Linux distro and project (any distro and project, for that matter), what's the driving purpose of your criticism?
99 • RE: 98 (by Landor on 2011-04-22 04:59:14 GMT from Canada)
Show me where I'm wrong, and make sure you provide factual information, not just an opinion that is invalid, please.
Oh, and by the way, did you not notice your own slur that makes the community look bad?
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
100 • RE:97 (by Anonimous Coward on 2011-04-22 08:31:36 GMT from Spain)
Landor wrote:
I also see a few people saying 'Puppy is not meant to installed to a hard drive'. Do you realise what you're all saying? The option is there right? How can anyone say it wasn't meant to when it can do it. Seriously. Stop making excuses for something that's broken by design, period.
You are right. When a developer sets an operation mode for his software, he should expect it to be used. So, when Puppy developers did set a HDD mode, they should have released it only after making it bug-free enough. Fortunately, they warn against HDD install at least.
This is the cause for this review to make sense: most reviewers would tell us about the traditional Live Puppy, but here we see how Puppy does perform in a no so common environment. Many live distros work well when installed in the hard drive, so trying Puppy to do so is not unreasonable at all.
101 • RE:97 Corrected (by Anonimous Coward on 2011-04-22 08:34:36 GMT from Spain)
My last post is messed! It should have been has follows:
Landor wrote:
-------------------------------
I also see a few people saying 'Puppy is not meant to installed to a hard drive'. Do you realise what you're all saying? The option is there right? How can anyone say it wasn't meant to when it can do it. Seriously. Stop making excuses for something that's broken by design, period.
------------------------------
You are right. When a developer sets an operation mode for his software, he should expect it to be used. So, when Puppy developers did set a HDD mode, they should have released it only after making it bug-free enough. Fortunately, they warn against HDD install at least.
This is the cause for this review to make sense: most reviewers would tell us about the traditional Live Puppy, but here we see how Puppy does perform in a no so common environment. Many live distros work well when installed in the hard drive, so trying Puppy to do so is not unreasonable at all.
102 • RE:94 (by A nonymosser on 2011-04-22 09:23:31 GMT from Sweden)
"Thus being trouble makers for the hell of it."
Non-conformism is trouble-makerism only when viewed with totalitarian eyes...
Rootism is (almost, sort of...) sacred to many computer users....
/Also curious
103 • Ångström (by glyj on 2011-04-22 12:05:05 GMT from France)
Hi !
I discovered this distro and nothing about it on Distrowatch !
How is this possible ?
Here is a link to the official website : http://www.angstrom-distribution.org
Regards,
glyj
104 • Puppy full install (by imnotrich on 2011-04-22 22:12:30 GMT from Mexico)
I used Puppy 4.3.1 full install on one machine's hard drive and frugal (.sfs file) on another for years and never had a problem.
It only required the slightest bit of tinkering to get everything installed and functional (with the exception of wifi - that remains a challenge).
Someone posted that the hard drive Puppy install was full of bugs but didn't name one. Please enlighten us!
My biggest gripe about Puppy was not running as root. If I screwed something up using the live cd or .sfs it only took a few seconds to reboot. Maybe an hour if I screwed up something with the full hard drive install, and nobody every attacked me with any success.
My biggest gripe was when Puppy went to using Ubuntu binaries and suddenly was completely incompatible with much of the recent hardware I was trying to run it on. Forgive me for repeating myself but if you want the best Puppy experience, go with 4.3.1. The 5 series is rubbish.
105 • Puppy spin with a user to go (by gnomic on 2011-04-23 10:09:58 GMT from New Zealand)
I was running a Puppy variant called Lighthouse Pup lately and noticed it seems to have a use account available out of the box. So you too can be user 'spot'. This one I think has a Slackware base.
106 • Puppy is funny (by Bronco on 2011-04-23 10:20:49 GMT from Germany)
It has been said that running as root is not a problem, because Puppy is a Live-CD. The idea seems to be that running as root is not a risk if your system is stateless. And I would agree... BUT from what I take from Puppy's homepage the particular strength of Puppy is that it is not stateless. It advertises that you can carry your own settings, programs and data around because it uses CDRWs or USB-sticks to keep your system state.
Now, I can't imagine that I'm the first to realize this, so I would like to read something about this, maybe on a developers' blog? Any links?
107 • BSD Variants (by Rudolf Steiner on 2011-04-23 17:51:21 GMT from United States)
I personally use OpenBSD as my main desktop but have recently given GhostBSD a try. It is quite stable and easy to install. It would be nice if we could get a few more BSD reviews here on distrowatch. I may submit one myself.
RS
108 • BSD (by Jesse on 2011-04-23 19:05:26 GMT from Canada)
@107:
Over the past year I think I've reviewed all of the major BSD variants, including GhostBSD (twice), PC-BSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD. Is there another one you'd like to see featured here?
109 • BSD Reviews (by Rudolf Steiner on 2011-04-23 19:49:51 GMT from United States)
Sorry Jesse, I must have missed those reviews. I will go back through the past DWW's and read them. It was GhostBSD that I as looking for a review on, but since it have already done two I would not be so bold to ask for a third.
RS
110 • GhostBSD (by Jesse on 2011-04-23 23:14:25 GMT from Canada)
@109
THe last review of GhostBSD was fairly short, I think it was a case of three projects in one review, so it would have been easy to miss. I did enjoy GhostBSD, I think they've come a long way since version 1.0. When they hit their next milestone I'll probably give them a full feature to themselves.
111 • Don't ignore Kubuntu 11.04 (by KevinC on 2011-04-24 07:02:56 GMT from United States)
I have been using for about a wk or so and it's rather nice. Often seems KDE gets 2nd citizen status w/ Ubuntu---and I have yet to find a Kubuntu that I liked. This one seems to have all the flaws ironed out. I can definitely see myself going KDE4 vs. Unity or Gnome3..neither look to be viable alternatives for me. I'm not sayin' it's 'buntu or nothing, b/c I have plenty of other distros waiting in the wing that will sate my appetite. Just nice to have a KDE variant that looks to be fairly solid. Give it a go and tell me what u think.
112 • @111 - Kubuntu (by Reuben on 2011-04-24 17:18:50 GMT from United States)
I think I agree with a previous reviewer that Kubuntu is boring. It's a great distro to install if you just want to get stuff done. It's stable and it works. On first log on you are presented with a boring blue background instead of a snazzy black background like you'd find with the likes of aptosid. That said, I don't use it because I consider it boring.
113 • RE: 111 - 112 (by Landor on 2011-04-24 19:47:33 GMT from Canada)
#111
The only Kubuntu I actually really enjoyed and felt was a great build was 7.04. I have no qualms about saying I thought that was an amazing offering. I will admit part of the reason I don't have much regard for anything after that release is because of the KDE 4.XX series. Only part though. :)
#112
A background makes a distribution boring, or not?
What has this community come to.
I just sit here and shake my head, day in and day out.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
114 • Re: 111 - Kubuntu (by BrandonSniadajewski on 2011-04-24 23:52:25 GMT from United States)
I agree with KevinC that the Natty version coming this Thursday works and looks good. Who cares if it is "boring". I encourage youy Landor to at least give Kubuntu Natty and KDE 4.6 a try.
115 • trivial complaints (by gnomic on 2011-04-25 00:08:03 GMT from New Zealand)
Hmmm, If I read one more review in which the reviewer threatens to throw their toys out of the cot because (sob) distro X's installer is not graphical, I may well run screaming into the night.
116 • RE: 114 - 115 (by Landor on 2011-04-25 04:45:32 GMT from Canada)
#114
I probably will look at it at some point. I've kind of become a GTK user now though, which is quite shocking to say the least. Though I always have liked minimal window managers.
#115
I usually find those reviewers to also be the ones that put great emphasis on their happiness for included codecs and the like.
One day maybe I'll write up a list of the most annoying crap from the kiddie crowd.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
117 • @113: Re:Kubuntu (by Reuben on 2011-04-25 04:50:46 GMT from United States)
I like to see the design of desktops shipped with distros. Of course flashy artwork doesn't make a distro good, it simply makes it interesting. Of course, blue is soo much better than purple. Heck, I never really had anything against brown.
Of course the real reason that it is boring is that everything works with little fuss.
118 • Uh, Landor (by Bob on 2011-04-25 07:10:51 GMT from United States)
I'll save you the trouble of the list.
It takes 25 seconds to boot up rather than 20(my world will explode).
It comes with Open Office which means I have to burn a dvd rather than a cd(oh the horrors).
It doesn't come with Open Office which means I have to go thru the trouble of opening synaptic and download/install it(the agony).
Think I'll stop there.
So, no appreciation of others work which gives me a distro that costs the time to download it, burn it to a 30 cent cd or a 75 cent dvd and do a little work to have a sleek nice running os in at the most 1 hour and then just let er rip.
Tell ya what. Go buy some desktop with pre-installed you know what and shut up already.
Or just go buy it for anywhere from 150 to 350 bucks and your world should just be peachy then. ok?
I see why some developers or contributors to a distro get frustrated.
Number of Comments: 118
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| • Issue 1023 (2023-06-12): openSUSE 15.5 Leap, the differences between independent distributions, openSUSE lengthens Leap life, Murena offers new phone for North America |
| • Issue 1022 (2023-06-05): GetFreeOS 2023.05.01, Slint 15.0-3, Liya N4Si, cleaning up crowded directories, Ubuntu plans Snap-based variant, Red Hat dropping LireOffice RPM packages |
| • Issue 1021 (2023-05-29): rlxos GNU/Linux, colours in command line output, an overview of Void's unique features, how to use awk, Microsoft publishes a Linux distro |
| • Issue 1020 (2023-05-22): UBports 20.04, finding another machine's IP address, finding distros with a specific kernel, Debian prepares for Bookworm |
| • Issue 1019 (2023-05-15): Rhino Linux (Beta), checking which applications reply on a package, NethServer reborn, System76 improving application responsiveness |
| • Issue 1018 (2023-05-08): Fedora 38, finding relevant manual pages, merging audio files, Fedora plans new immutable edition, Mint works to fix Secure Boot issues |
| • Issue 1017 (2023-05-01): Xubuntu 23.04, Debian elects Project Leaders and updates media, systemd to speed up restarts, Guix System offering ground-up source builds, where package managers install files |
| • Issue 1016 (2023-04-24): Qubes OS 4.1.2, tracking bandwidth usage, Solus resuming development, FreeBSD publishes status report, KaOS offers preview of Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1015 (2023-04-17): Manjaro Linux 22.0, Trisquel GNU/Linux 11.0, Arch Linux powering PINE64 tablets, Ubuntu offering live patching on HWE kernels, gaining compression on ex4 |
| • Issue 1014 (2023-04-10): Quick looks at carbonOS, LibreELEC, and Kodi, Mint polishes themes, Fedora rolls out more encryption plans, elementary OS improves sideloading experience |
| • Issue 1013 (2023-04-03): Alpine Linux 3.17.2, printing manual pages, Ubuntu Cinnamon becomes official flavour, Endeavour OS plans for new installer, HardenedBSD plans for outage |
| • Issue 1012 (2023-03-27): siduction 22.1.1, protecting privacy from proprietary applications, GNOME team shares new features, Canonical updates Ubuntu 20.04, politics and the Linux kernel |
| • Issue 1011 (2023-03-20): Serpent OS, Security Onion 2.3, Gentoo Live, replacing the scp utility, openSUSE sees surge in downloads, Debian runs elction with one candidate |
| • Issue 1010 (2023-03-13): blendOS 2023.01.26, keeping track of which files a package installs, improved network widget coming to elementary OS, Vanilla OS changes its base distro |
| • Issue 1009 (2023-03-06): Nemo Mobile and the PinePhone, matching the performance of one distro on another, Linux Mint adds performance boosts and security, custom Ubuntu and Debian builds through Cubic |
| • Issue 1008 (2023-02-27): elementary OS 7.0, the benefits of boot environments, Purism offers lapdock for Librem 5, Ubuntu community flavours directed to drop Flatpak support for Snap |
| • Issue 1007 (2023-02-20): helloSystem 0.8.0, underrated distributions, Solus team working to repair their website, SUSE testing Micro edition, Canonical publishes real-time edition of Ubuntu 22.04 |
| • Issue 1006 (2023-02-13): Playing music with UBports on a PinePhone, quick command line and shell scripting questions, Fedora expands third-party software support, Vanilla OS adds Nix package support |
| • Issue 1005 (2023-02-06): NuTyX 22.12.0 running CDE, user identification numbers, Pop!_OS shares COSMIC progress, Mint makes keyboard and mouse options more accessible |
| • Issue 1004 (2023-01-30): OpenMandriva ROME, checking the health of a disk, Debian adopting OpenSnitch, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1003 (2023-01-23): risiOS 37, mixing package types, Fedora seeks installer feedback, Sparky offers easier persistence with USB writer |
| • Issue 1002 (2023-01-16): Vanilla OS 22.10, Nobara Project 37, verifying torrent downloads, Haiku improvements, HAMMER2 being ports to NetBSD |
| • Issue 1001 (2023-01-09): Arch Linux, Ubuntu tests new system installer, porting KDE software to OpenBSD, verifying files copied properly |
| • Issue 1000 (2023-01-02): Our favourite projects of all time, Fedora trying out unified kernel images and trying to speed up shutdowns, Slackware tests new kernel, detecting what is taking up disk space |
| • Issue 999 (2022-12-19): Favourite distributions of 2022, Fedora plans Budgie spin, UBports releasing security patches for 16.04, Haiku working on new ports |
| • Issue 998 (2022-12-12): OpenBSD 7.2, Asahi Linux enages video hardware acceleration on Apple ARM computers, Manjaro drops proprietary codecs from Mesa package |
| • Issue 997 (2022-12-05): CachyOS 221023 and AgarimOS, working with filenames which contain special characters, elementary OS team fixes delta updates, new features coming to Xfce |
| • Issue 996 (2022-11-28): Void 20221001, remotely shutting down a machine, complex aliases, Fedora tests new web-based installer, Refox OS running on real hardware |
| • Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices |
| • Issue 994 (2022-11-14): Redcore Linux 2201, changing the terminal font size, Fedora plans Phosh spin, openSUSE publishes on-line manual pages, disabling Snap auto-updates |
| • Issue 993 (2022-11-07): Static Linux, working with just a kernel, Mint streamlines Flatpak management, updates coming to elementary OS |
| • Issue 992 (2022-10-31): Lubuntu 22.10, setting permissions on home directories, Linux may drop i486, Fedora delays next version for OpenSSL bug |
| • Issue 991 (2022-10-24): XeroLinux 2022.09, learning who ran sudo, exploring firewall tools, Rolling Rhino Remix gets a fresh start, Fedora plans to revamp live media |
| • Issue 990 (2022-10-17): ravynOS 0.4.0, Lion Linux 3.0, accessing low numbered network ports, Pop!_OS makes progress on COSMIC, Murena launches new phone |
| • Issue 989 (2022-10-10): Ubuntu Unity, kernel bug causes issues with Intel cards, Canonical offers free Ubuntu Pro subscriptions, customizing the command line prompt |
| • Issue 988 (2022-10-03): SpiralLinux 11.220628, finding distros for older equipment and other purposes, SUSE begins releasing ALP prototypes, Debian votes on non-free firmware in installer |
| • Issue 987 (2022-09-26): openSUSE's MicroOS, converting people to using Linux, pfSense updates base system and PHP, Python 2 dropped from Arch |
| • Issue 986 (2022-09-19): Porteus 5.0, remotely wiping a hard drive, a new software centre for Ubuntu, Proxmox offers offline updates |
| • Full list of all issues |
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GNOBSD
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