| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 396, 14 March 2011
Welcome to this year's 11th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! The world of free and open-source software was dominated by three major stories last week: the release of openSUSE 11.4, the arrival of a development build of GNOME 3, and the ongoing Canonical vs GNOME conflict. These are the three topics covered in the news section where we link to some of the more interesting articles written on the subjects during the past seven days. The review section then brings a first look at Bodhi Linux, an Ubuntu-based distribution featuring Enlightenment 17, with all its bells and whistles. But how usable is the flashy desktop in its current, pre-release state? Read on to find out. Finally, for those interested in the intricacies of software licences, the Questions and Answers section is a must read as it explains the GNU Lesser General Public Licence. Happy reading!
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
|Feature Story (by Jesse Smith)
A peek at Bodhi Linux 0.1.6|
It seems that of late about every other distribution I'm asked to review is based on Ubuntu, typically Ubuntu 10.04. I suppose it makes sense -- Ubuntu is a popular distribution and, with its ties to Debian, the large collection of software is appealing to distro creators. There are certainly many worse bases to use for a new distribution than Ubuntu. Yet, truth be told, part of me is disappointed. One of the things I've always enjoyed about the community of Linux developers is their creativity, their willingness to start over and try something new, just to see what happens. Typically this results in plenty of examples of what not to do, but every so often a gem pops up and shows us a better way. Even APT, at one point, was a newfangled way of doing things with an uncertain future. So while Bodhi is, like several other projects, based on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, the promise of a completely new interface sounded appealing. After all, KDE 4 offered a new slant on the desktop concept and, despite its rocky beginnings, I've come to enjoy it a lot.
Armed with cautious optimism, I downloaded Bodhi's 414 MB ISO image and burned it to a CD. Booting off the disc starts out in the typical fashion and the distro quickly launches a graphical greeting screen which asks us if we'd prefer our text in English or Spanish. The next screen asks us which profile we'd like to use: Bare, Desktop, Ecomorph, Fancy, Laptop or Tablet/Notebook. I didn't find there was much of a difference between one and the next, except the Bare profile results in us having a mostly-empty screen. A third and final prompt asks us what theme we'd like to use. Where the Profile dialogue lets us define the shape of the desktop, the Theme dialogue let's us select from a variety of pre-defined colour combinations. I can't say any of the themes appealed to me, but one man's eye strain is another man's art.
After the third prompt, we're introduced to the Enlightenment window manager, which most of the profiles shape to look like the OS X desktop. In the top-left corner we find an application and settings menu, over to the top-right we find a system tray, virtual desktop switcher and clock. At the bottom of the screen we find a quick-launch bar, giving us fast access to Firefox, our home folder and the system installer. Moving the mouse over these quick-launch buttons causes the icons to pulse and the text to bounce, in case we weren't sure where the mouse pointer was located.
Bodhi Linux 0.1.6 - information and settings
(full image size: 630kB, resolution 1024x768 pixels)
Bodhi's system installer is, in fact, Ubuntu's installer and I don't think there's much need to go into the details. I walked through the usual steps, the installer copied its files to my hard drive and suggested I reboot the system. Booting from the hard disk brings us to a colourful login screen and, upon logging in, we're met with prompts. The first two ask us for our preferred language and theme again. The third dialogue asks us to select which icons will appear on the desktop's quick-launch bar. Future logins don't give us these prompts, each user gets them just once.
Enlightenment has an application menu which comes across as a combination of the three GNOME menus. At the top of the menu is a place for applications, the next item down gives us a short list of key places in the file system. The third item down is called Run Everything and I'll talk about that a bit later. There are four sub-menus that deal with desktop settings and windows and a System menu comes in at the bottom. Compared to other desktop menus I found Bodhi's to be heavy on nesting, especially when we consider how few applications come with the distro. I also found the location of some items less than intuitive. For example clicking on the Enlightenment category and selecting Restart doesn't restart the machine, but logs us out of the desktop. Trying to find Synaptic turned into a bit of a hunt as it wasn't listed under System, nor Applications, nor under Settings. I found the package manager under the Settings category, through the All sub-menu under the System sub-sub-menu.
The distribution doesn't include many applications out of the box, instead Bodhi starts us off light with the idea we'll build our desired system with just the pieces we need. We're provided a virtual terminal, Firefox 4 (beta), Network Manager, Synaptic and the Enlightenment configuration tools. The config apps Enlightenment comes with are similar in style & function to those of other desktops. Some common items, such as Java, Flash and GCC are not included. Likewise multimedia codecs (or even multimedia applications) are not included in the default install and there are no network services running out of the box.
Package management on Bodhi is handled via the APT tools, if you're working from the command line, and through Synaptic if you prefer a graphical interface. Packages are mostly pulled from Ubuntu's repositories, though there is a Bodhi-specific repository in the list of package sources. I encountered no issues when adding or updating software -- Synaptic performed well, as usual. The Bodhi project puts out frequent releases and an effort has been made to make sure the software provided in the live disc images is up to date, saving us from installing a lot of security updates post-install. One item I missed having was an indicator or system tray icon showing whether security updates were available.
Bodhi Linux 0.1.6 - reading project documentation in Firefox
(full image size: 383kB, resolution 1024x768 pixels)
Bodhi didn't work well with my hardware, considering the usual excellent performance I get from Ubuntu-derived projects. On my desktop machine (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA video card) my screen was set to a suitable resolution, but I found all my audio output devices were muted. Not that it made a big difference as, out of the box, Bodhi doesn't include any multimedia applications. On my laptop (dual core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, Intel video card) I had a similar experience, with my screen working fine, but with audio disabled. Bodhi is one of the few members of the Ubuntu family to not work with my Intel wireless card. My touchpad was picked up and worked as expected without any issues. On both machines I found the distro performed well, though, despite the low resource usage of Enlightenment, the desktop didn't appear to be any more responsive than a typical install of Ubuntu with the GNOME desktop. While testing in a virtual machine I found Bodhi would boot with as little as 128MB of RAM.
My time with Bodhi can pretty much be summed up as one aggravation after another. I was willing to accept the stream of pop-ups that come with creating a new account or using the live disc. I was okay with trying a different menu structure. Starting with a bare-bones system and building from the ground up is even a concept I can get behind for people who like a lean operating system. After all, these are things we have to walk through once and they're done. But day-to-day usage of Bodhi completely rubbed me the wrong way. The pulsating icons, the small bouncing text and the fuzzy borders around text that made it harder to read all contributed to making me want to spend as little time with the environment as possible. The menu layout appears designed to hide items rather than provide easy access to them.
And then there is the Run Everything application, a program which is designed, in theory, to provide quick access to anything on the system -- a sort of control panel meets application menu meets file browser. The documentation describes it as "a very powerful, but often misunderstood application. As such it often intimidates new users and is therefore underused." It goes on to suggest that new users' first reaction might be to "panic" upon seeing the UI. Having fought with Run Everything for several minutes and getting unreliable results from it, I can understand why it might be "underused". Once I got the hang of Run Everything and started finding it useful there were still surprises, like having the utility's window close if I clicked outside the Run Everything window. The Run Everything application and my trials with it describe my general impression of Bodhi: the developers seem to be going out of their way to make their interface so alien and so flashy that it will turn away potential users.
I can't deny Bodhi brings something new to the table; the desktop it provides is certainly different. Judging from the number of downloads the project has experienced thus far it must be appealing to quite a lot of people. However, I didn't find anything to recommend the distro. It is, in my opinion, mostly glitter and little substance.
|Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar)
On numbering openSUSE's releases, GNOME 3 frustrations and delights, Ubuntu vs GNOME saga
As expected, openSUSE 11.4, a major new version of one of the world's oldest and most popular Linux distributions, was released last week. Judging by the first reviews and the reaction of users in public forums, the release is excellent - perhaps the more leisurely 8-month development period has done wonders for the distro. But what is the future of openSUSE? And does the current versioning scheme need a change? Andreas Jaeger ponders on how to name and number future openSUSE releases: "openSUSE does not have major and minor numbering, even if it seems so. Right now there is no difference in any way between what we would do for openSUSE 11.4 or 12.0 -- and no sense to speak about openSUSE 11 or openSUSE 11 family. We also have no process on how to name the next release (when to increase which part of the number). Here are some options, if I miss some, please tell me and I will then soon setup a poll. I list the next version we would use as well as how the following would be called as an example." Read the linked article for some interesting options.
openSUSE 11.4 - complete with KDE 4.6 and LibreOffice
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Last week's alpha release of Fedora 15 didn't just deliver the first public development snapshot of the distribution's latest version, it was also the first time any major Linux distro incorporated the brand-new GNOME 3 into its operating system. But as is often the case with any software project, a radical change is bound to result in increased blogging activity among the users of the software. Fedora's Martin Sourada writes a few thoughts on Blogspot: "There's substantial difference between KDE 4.0 and GNOME 3.0 release -- while KDE 4.0 was just a premature release, GNOME 3.0 is broken by design. No amount of minor releases can fix that. ... Unless you want a highly usable open-source software for tablet, GNOME 3 probably isn't for you." Another GNOME user who goes under the name of Jack Dostoevsky vents his frustrations on Reddit: "GNOME Shell does not work on dual monitors. There is no easy way to make changes to GNOME Shell. There is no minimize button unless you enable it through gconf-editor. Where are my places? There is no easy way to go back to Gnome 'classic'." Others disagree, however. As Anuradha Shukla points out at Unixmen, those buttons can be redundant in modern computing: "What the loss of the buttons gives GNOME 3 is a powerful yet simple user interface that quickly makes up for the loss of any redundant buttons. They are traded for excellent user-friendly features. The user interface is consistent in quality and it is only the buttons that have been removed, not the maximizing or minimizing features."
Fedora 15 alpha - Fedora is the first major distribution carrying the new GNOME 3
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* * * * *
The ongoing Canonical vs GNOME saga was another topic that continues to occupy the prime spots on many Linux news sites and forums. GNOME's Dave Neary adds to the discussion in a blog post entitled "Lessons Learned": "There are a number of things we can do to move forward from where we are now: improve processes and structure for freedesktop.org (this will require buy-in from key GNOME and KDE people), make the operation of GNOME (and the operation of individual modules) more transparent to outsides, cut out a lot of the back-channel conversations that have been happening over the phone, in person and on IRC, in favour of documented and archived discussions and agreements on mailing lists and Wikis, and work to ensure that people working on similar problem areas are talking to each other." This is one of the more sensible posts on the subject and is definitely worth reading if you want to understand the depth of the problem between the developers of the most widely-used desktop Linux distribution (Ubuntu) and the developers of the most popular open-source desktop environment (GNOME).
|Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith)
Using the GNU Lesser General Public License
Concerned-about-the-legalities-of-linking-options asks: Using GCC with options such as -fwhole-program, -combine, or -flto enables inlining optimizations, even when just linking against files. Is it risky for commercial software developers to link with unknown compiler flags (maybe if a distribution enables flto by default) against LGPLed libraries, or doesn't this count as a violation?
DistroWatch answers: It had been some time since I read the GNU Lesser General Public License. In fact, the last time I read the LGPL it didn't have a "v3" at the end of its name. After getting this question I did a quick read through and the conclusion I came to was that optimizations and different forms of linking will not affect the requirements of the license. (I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.) However, the Wikipedia article on the GNU LGPL talks about different forms of linking (static vs dynamic), which made me wonder if I missed something. Hoping to clear things up I wrote to the Free Software Foundation and put the question to them. I soon received a reply from Brett Smith, a Licensing Compliance Engineer with the FSF. He had the following to say about the LGPL:
The special permissions in the LGPL -- the ones that let developers use the covered library with proprietary software, and distinguish the license from the GPL -- are available to any program that uses the original work as a library. Developers are allowed to use LGPLed libraries with proprietary software whether they use static or dynamic linking, or any number of linking optimization techniques, as long as they only use the library's defined APIs (as opposed to copying source directly into the new project, or other forms of modification).
Now, when someone distributes a proprietary program that uses an LGPLed library, there are some conditions to follow. Some of these are basic and universal; for example, the program has to display a notice that it's using the library under the LGPL's terms, and should include a copy of the LGPL. The LGPL also has conditions that are designed to ensure that users can modify the original library, and use their modified version with the proprietary program. There are a few different methods you can use to comply with these conditions in the LGPL, and it's true that some distributors won't be able to use some methods depending on the details of how the software links with the library. But every distributor should be able to use at least one option, and therefore use the LGPL's special permissions.
The LGPL's goal is to provide computer users with some limited control over the software they run, by letting them study, change, and distribute the covered library, even when it's used in conjunction with proprietary software. Discouraging adoption of LGPLed libraries by imposing artificial limits about how they can be used in conjunction with proprietary software would hamper our efforts to achieve those goals. Hence, the LGPL has been written carefully to make sure that many developers can use its special permissions, regardless of what technical decisions they make when they link to the original library.
Thank you, Brett, for your time and kind efforts.
|Released Last Week
IPFire 2.9 Core 47
Michael Tremer has announced the release of an updated version of IPFire, a Linux-based firewall distribution: "Today we release IPFire 2.9 Core 47. IPFire 2.9 Core 47 is a bug-fix release and it brings minor feature updates. The most important change, beside the security update of the PHP scripting language, is the opportunity to configure the VLAN IDs that are used for IGMP streaming. PPTP servers that require a host route for the dial-in connection are supported from now on. List of changes: updated PHP to 5.3.5; changed Snort rule download to current Snort version; add SSH ECDSA hostkey for new encryption algorithms; fix add-on service PID/memory display if the add-on name contains numbers; proxy.cgi - fix file name of NTLM authenticator; add outgoing firewall group settings to backup." Here is the full release announcement.
Gentoo Linux 11.0
Joshua Saddler has announced the release of Gentoo Linux 11.0 live DVD featuring up-to-date software packages and a selection of desktop environments: "Gentoo Linux is proud to announce the availability of a new live DVD to celebrate the continued collaboration between Gentoo users and developers. The live DVD features a superb list of packages, some of which are listed below. System packages include Linux Kernel 2.6.37 (with Gentoo patches), accessibility support with Speakup 3.1.6, Bash 4.1, glibc 2.12.2, GCC 4.5.2, Binutils 2.21, Python 2.7.1 and 3.1.3, Perl 5.12.3. Desktop environments and window managers include: KDE SC 4.6, GNOME 2.32, Xfce 4.8, Enlightenment 1.0.7, Openbox 18.104.22.168, Fluxbox 1.3.1, XBMC 10.0.... The live DVD is available in two flavors: a hybrid x86/x86_64 edition, and an x86_64 multilib edition." See the release announcement for full details.
Gentoo Linux 11.0 - a new version of the (non-installable) live DVD by the popular source-based distro
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Alpine Linux 2.1.5
Jeff Bilyk has announced the release of Alpine Linux 2.1.5, a small distribution designed for x86 routers, firewalls, VPNs, VoIP boxes and servers: "We are pleased to announce the Alpine Linux 2.1.5 release. This release includes an update to use 22.214.171.124-based kernels. Various packages have bug fixes from upstream. Among these are Asterisk 1.8.3, Samba 3.5.8, Dovecot 2.0.11, BIND 9.7.3 and OpenSSL 1.0.0d. The package manager has fixes that solve issues when upgrading to edge. Important note when upgrading from version 1.10: the 2.0 series introduces an ABI-incompatible version of uClibc with NPTL threading support. This means that you cannot mix packages from older releases with 2.0. To upgrade you will need to make sure that you only have 2.0 repositories in your /etc/apk/repositories list." Read the full release notes for further information.
Scientific Linux 6.0 "Live"
Urs Beyerle has announced the release of Scientific Linux 6.0 "Live" edition, a set of live media built from the Red Hat-based Scientific Linux 6.0: "Scientific Linux 6.0 live CD/DVDs are officially released. They are available for the 32-bit and 64-bit platforms and come with following window managers: LiveMiniCD - IceWM; LiveCD - GNOME and IceWM; LiveDVD - GNOME, KDE and IceWM. Software was added from RPMforge, EPEL and ELRepo to include additional file system support (NTFS, ReiserFS), more secure network connection (OpenVPN, VPNC, PPTP), and several rescue and file system tools (TestDisk, dd_rescue, ddrescue, GParted). For SL6 the way how the live CD was built has completely changed; it is now based on Fedora LiveCD Tools. If you install the live CD to hard drive, the installation of the live image is now done by Anaconda, similar to the normal SL6 installation." Read the release announcement and visit the project's home page to learn more.
Joli OS 1.2
Joli OS 1.2, a new name of an Ubuntu-based distribution formerly known as Jolicloud, has been released: "Following up on our previous blog posts on the new direction for Jolicloud and the Joli OS 1.2 feature list, we’d like to share with you some of the features that are available in the new Jolicloud desktop and Joli OS 1.2. Both of which are now available. We enhanced the design and fine-tuned the user interface. Features like application sharing (the little star) can now be found more easily. We have included lots of cool new wallpapers. Now you can easily create your own applications in seconds; just type in the URL of your favorite site and Jolicloud will add it as an application to your Launcher. You can even share your creations with friends. Link your Dropbox account to your Jolicloud and access your files from any instance of your Jolicloud desktop." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information and screenshots.
Joli OS 1.2 - an updated release of an Ubuntu-based distribution for netbooks formerly known as Jolicloud
(full image size: 76kB, resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Tony Sales has announced the release of Vinux 3.0.1, an updated version of the Ubuntu-based distribution designed for blind and visually impaired users: "The Vinux 3.0.1 release, based on Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS, is now available for download. This combines all of the accessibility of Vinux 3.1 with the stability of Vinux 3.0 as well as a few completely new features. In addition to the existing three screen readers (Orca, Speakup and YASR) this release also includes Emacspeak, 'The Complete Audio Desktop' pre-configured and ready to go out of the box. You can now create audio books from text-based files using our exclusive Audiobook converter package, browse our new HTML-based Vinux manual to help get you started, install the latest version of LibreOffice using an EasyInstall script, and customise your desktop experience with Ubuntu Tweak." Visit the distribution's news page to read the release announcement.
openSUSE 11.4, a major new update of one of the world's most popular Linux distributions, has been released: "We are proud to announce the launch of 11.4 in the openSUSE tradition of delivering the latest technology while maintaining stability. The 11.4 release brings significant improvements along with the latest in free software applications. Combined with the appearance of new tools, projects and services around the release, 11.4 marks a showcase of growth and vitality for the openSUSE project. openSUSE 11.4 is based around Linux kernel 2.6.37 which improves the scalability of virtual memory management and separation of tasks executed by terminal users." Continue reading the release announcement to learn more about the features in this release.
Fusion Linux 14
Valent Turkovic has announced the release of Fusion Linux 14, a Fedora-based live DVD with extra software and improved out-of-the-box usability: "Fusion Linux 14 'Thorium' is officially out. This release has been in the making for the last 5 months. Work on this release started even before Fedora 14 got released, which is the base for Fusion Linux 14. We had a lot of features, desktop components and overall polish to tie together into one coherent whole before making this release. Features and highlights: a brand new custom-made theme; post install welcome wizard script; Skype removed so Fusion Linux can be freely redistributed; multimedia support (Flash, MP3 and DivX playback); better hardware compatibility for Broadcom wireless cards; mintMenu; DockbarX; GNOME Do; Compiz Fusion." Read the rest of the release announcement for more details.
Fusion Linux 14 - a Fedora-based distribution with mintMenu and other usability improvements
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Calculate Linux 11.3
Alexander Tratsevskiy has announced the release of Calculate Linux 11.3, a Gentoo-based distribution for desktops and servers: "The new version of the Calculate Linux 11.3 distribution has been released. All editions of distribution are available for download: Calculate Linux Desktop with desktop KDE (CLD), GNOME (CLDG) and Xfce (CLDX), Calculate Linux Scratch (CLS), Calculate Directory Server (CDS) and Calculate Scratch Server (CSS). Major changes: updated KDE 4.6.1 and GNOME 2.32 desktop environments; includes LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice.org; improved integration of GTK+ applications in KDE; full removal of the HAL package; support for installation on /dev/cciss device (HP servers); added support for Samsung printers; fixed installation on USB hard disks." Here is the full release announcement.
John Combs has announced the release of GhostBSD 2.0, a FreeBSD-based live CD with GNOME, package manager and simple system installer: "GhostBSD 2.0 is released. Great news for this release of GhostBSD as it now supports auto-mounting USB devices. Some of the changes in the release: new logo, bug fixes, new live file system, more improvements to GDM (no more white screens during boot). GhostBSD 2.0 is based on FreeBSD 8.2; it includes GNOME 2.32, Rhythmbox 0.12.8_3, Pidgin 2.7.7, Firefox 3.6 and Thunderbird 3.0.11. GhostBSD 2.0 can be installed to hard disk with a simple terminal installer written in Python. You can now also install and delete application with a package manager call Bxpkg." Here is the brief release announcement with a screenshot of the default desktop.
GhostBSD 2.0 - a FreeBSD-based operating system for the desktop
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* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
New distributions added to database
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 21 March 2011.
Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • About Bodhi (by borgio3 on 2011-03-14 09:15:01 GMT from Italy) |
Few weeks ago i reviewed Bodhi Linux in my italian own website. I sed that Bodhi is nice, beautiful, but useless.
I totally agree with distrowatch review. I think that the main developer must include much appealing tools and solution, if he want to make difference!
2 • Bodhi (by smudger on 2011-03-14 09:23:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I concur. The open screen comment turned out to be a portent of the appallingly poor attention, not only to detail, but mission-critical parameters. It tells that the splash screen is unavailable. Why bother, if it isn't available; on the other hand, it cannot be too difficult to fix it!
On my bog std. kit, I could not get connected. Virtually every distro is capable of making a wired connection active with DHCP these days.
And so it went on, and on, and....
Too many wannabe developers who refuse to see the trees for the wood. Stop wasting our time. Pretty =/= functionality.
More distros still appearing with their .iso files >700Mb; more distros I shall be giving a miss!
3 • GNOME 3 (by jaycee on 2011-03-14 09:33:57 GMT from Australia)
I for one welcome the refreshingly unconventional interface GNOME has designed and implemented. While I don't consider all of their decisions to be for the better (e.g. heavily pushing for using icons to identify programs rather than text; removing a "Recent Documents" section), a lot of them I find to be more intuitive, assuming you're not dependent on Windows-like or OSX-like layouts for using your computer. If nothing else, it at least offers a unique choice among otherwise relatively similar desktop environments.
4 • Bodhi (by Dan on 2011-03-14 10:34:22 GMT from United States)
I've been using Bodhi, and I really like it. The new release has alsa-utils, the prior releases did not. That is probably why your audio didn't work. I had to find out via forum. In any case, I have a tight little distro without crap like OpenOffice and chat programs clogging it up.
5 • Gnome 3 (by Dan on 2011-03-14 10:35:14 GMT from United States)
It looks like it's going to be an utter failure, thanks to Shell. How can guys in charge of the UI be so completely clueless?
6 • Bodhi review (by Dan on 2011-03-14 10:37:59 GMT from United States)
You didn't review the newest iso, did you? As mentioned, alsa is now included. Why review an out-of-date version, when several bugs like that, that you harp on, have been fixed in the latest release?
7 • Bodhi (by mjjzf on 2011-03-14 11:09:49 GMT from Denmark)
I was actually a little shocked that Bodhi was as heavy a download as it is, considering what it contains: Essentially a prettier version of TinyCore useful for building things on top.
8 • Bodhi (by meanpt on 2011-03-14 11:52:35 GMT from Portugal)
Bodhi is fast, lighter and not ugly. Runs fine on a vm with 450 MB of Ram. The very small RAM footprint is one of its strengths, among the other buntus around. Despite former problems with sound, that was something already fixed. Bodhi is simple and for someone that don't use a plain US keyboard, it's easier to configure than other minimal or even crunched distros around. Bodhi is a project aimed either to low resources environments, or to be very fast on the more powerful ones. Bodhi is fine, and is improving.
9 • ubuntu & Gnome (by TuxRaider on 2011-03-14 12:14:57 GMT from United States)
i caught that on slashdot a few days ago, i agree with the Gnome people that ubuntu needs to stay out, let ubuntu tend their own garden...
do you let your neighbors do your chores around your home? no...
seems to me that Shuttleworth/Canonical/Ubuntu like to stick their noses where it dont belong and want to be the leader in charge of the whole parade, but that is exactly what Linux is not about and they need to get a clue...
just my $00.02
have a nice day :)
10 • Bodhi version (by Jesse on 2011-03-14 12:44:34 GMT from Canada)
>> "You didn't review the newest iso, did you? "
The 0.1.6 release was the latest version available when I wrote the review. The 0.1.7 release came out three days ago, after I had submitted this review. The Bodhi project is pumping out releases about once every three weeks, so any review will be quickly out-dated.
11 • Bodhi (by forlin on 2011-03-14 12:56:26 GMT from Portugal)
When I started Linux, I wish there were many distros like Bodhi, not only with the E17 but also all the other desktops.
The reason is because every distro used to have a lot that I didn't want, and often missed stuff that I needed. Because its more easy with Linux to add new applications than to remove installed ones to get the ones one needs, new users may need to have to distro-hope a lot to get what they want, but anything else.
By the way, the most used o/s in the world, does not supply a complete set of applications for every end.
Regarding the review done here, once again the reviewer opinion is in flagrant contradiction with most of the feedback seen in the Bodhi forum. One may give the benefit of doubt once, twice, and once more again. But too often leads to credibility damage.
This said, I agree with some small details noted. It's true the fonts are too small. Its easy to adjust it in the E17, but the devs should have corrected that a long time ago to avoid repeated criticism from reviewers.
Anything else noted in the review, if of some substance, should be discussed in the distro community and corrected. At the end of the day, although only three months old, Bodhi is in its last Release Candidate and for sure, has room to improve.
But it should not change completely only to be just like most other distros out there.
There's already too much choice in Linux, and too little difference.
12 • Bodhi (by Agust on 2011-03-14 13:09:57 GMT from Spain)
"On both machines I found the distro performed well, though, despite the low resource usage of Enlightenment, the desktop didn't appear to be any more responsive than a typical install of Ubuntu with the GNOME desktop."
Look here please!!
I sincerely believe that this time not been successful in your review.
Just my opinion.
13 • Bodhi (by smudger on 2011-03-14 13:28:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well, Jesse, I guess that's the risk you run! Most of the Bodhi-lovers above are sadly mistaken, some might say just sad.
Only Lucid Puppy manages to be get it right whilst still not being based on 'buntu - and in only 127Mb. This is all anyone needs because they can simply install any of the 32,000 'buntu & .deb apps, mostly with a single click, dependencies being taken care of with no further interaction.
No excuse for excuses.
14 • #11 (by octathlon on 2011-03-14 13:51:27 GMT from United States)
"new users may need to have to distro-hope a lot to get what they want"
"Distro-hope" might be a typo, but it is definitely a good way to say what we do, more accurate!
15 • Bodhi (by pazuzuthewise on 2011-03-14 13:55:23 GMT from Romania)
Contrary to the reviewer, I have tried an (admittedly) older release of Bodhi, and I found it a lot more responsive than gnome, and a little more so even than xfce (ubuntu, respectively xubuntu) - while booting from a live usb stick, on a 2Ghz dual amd, 4Gb RAM, and more so an a atom processor with 512Mb RAM.
Also, it should be taken into account we are not talking about a final-release grade os, it is still in alpha stage, so it can be expected to find bugs in it. By the same logic, you could review an ubuntu alpha and say it is a waste of time of its developers, since it doesn't work as a finished product.
16 • Gnome3 (by richard on 2011-03-14 13:58:49 GMT from United States)
Instead of re-inventing the wheel what would have been wrong with just improving and fixing issues with 2.32? I don't like the stripped down minimalistic approach Gnome 3 has taken. It looks and feels inadequate in features.
17 • Gnome3 (by Rob on 2011-03-14 14:54:16 GMT from United States)
I was under the impression that with Gnome3 we'd have the option to use the gnome 2.x-style desktop if we either didn't like shell or didn't have hardware capable of running it.
18 • GNOME 3 (by Jame on 2011-03-14 14:57:29 GMT from United States)
"[GNOME 3] looks like it's going to be an utter failure, thanks to Shell. How can guys in charge of the UI be so completely clueless?"
The GNOME shell project is headed up by the fellow who gave us gnome-screensaver, single-handedly deciding that users shouldn't be allowed to configure the screensaver for fear that they might put dirty pictures/words on the screen or use GLText to badmouth the boss. I think that answers your question.
19 • Bodhi (by Dan_W on 2011-03-14 14:59:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've got to agree with the review here, it tallies quite closely with my own experiences (also 0.1.6) with the exception that I didn't find enlightenment as such to be particularly hard work. Of course I also didn't use "Run Everything" at all - because frankly it seems to be a solution to a problem that I've never had or been made aware of. Like Gnome-Do.
forlin complains that reviewers are routinely giving reviews that dont match the feedback seen on the Bodhi Forums - I think you have to make allowances for selection bias. It's like saying the people who choose to drink in your pub like your beer.
20 • Bodhi & Puppy Linux (by Chris on 2011-03-14 15:13:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've just installed Bodhi Linux RC3 0.1.7 on my 3 year old Asus x51rl laptop from which I'm typing this - so far so good! Every thing working ok, except the software repository which is currently down.
I like the feel and look, using the 'A-Moonlight-Bodhi' theme which looks great!
I've been a long supporter of Puppy Linux but I sometimes that the effort made by many dedicated developers is too disipated with many derivatives. There appears to be too much un-coordinated 'fiddling' by individual developers resulting sometimes in 'one step fowards and two backwards'. As a result Puppy Linux is'nt as great as it should be - in my opinion.
21 • Why fix when it's not broken? (by mattiii on 2011-03-14 15:15:15 GMT from Finland)
I've noticed that while getting older I also start disliking changes. I don't want to learn how to use computers again cause every operating system/desktop enviroment changes completely. Would it be too much to keep GNOME as it is and make a development branch or fork that would have all the new trendic innovations.
At first I thought that I'd keep using GNOME after Ubuntu 11.04 but because it's changing to look just like Unity, I think I might try KDE or LXDE instead. And I don't like those netbook/Android/touchscreen things, like buttons everywhere on the screen and no text. I want to keep my desktop clean (no icons or screenlets or anything) and I don't have a netbook or touchscreen anyway and not going to buy one cause I don't need them.
That's just my opinion. If you don't like it, forget it. I don't want to fight over the internet with strangers.
22 • Bodhi / Gnome3 (by Person on 2011-03-14 15:27:36 GMT from Brazil)
I don't see how one can brag about Enlightenment using "only" 188 MB of RAM. I just installed Debian squeeze + gnome-core on my Eeepc 701, and memory when idle floats around 90 ~ MB.
And Gnome3... I had a lot to say, but meh.
23 • Bodhi (by Chris on 2011-03-14 15:40:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
My currently installed Bodhi RC3 is using 101 MB ram running browser on wireless connection and it looks 'pretty'!
24 • Re:21 (by Tom on 2011-03-14 15:41:25 GMT from Germany)
I second you. It seems like GNOME3 and Unity alike are uniquely heading towards the netbook/tablet niche, just like Linux wouldn't be suitable but for those. I'm considering switching to another DE if I should be forced to use any of those.
Why review a self-labeled "development release" when there are so many final releases? Granted, it may be helpful for the developer, but I think only the final release would give the best picture.
25 • @22 • Bodhi / Gnome3 (by Person (by meanpt on 2011-03-14 16:03:34 GMT from Portugal)
I'm not sure if you misread something as my desktop lands at 67 MB of RAM which makes it the lightest ubuntu around with a graphical UI with all the services on.
26 • Review requests (by Jesse on 2011-03-14 16:16:04 GMT from Canada)
>> "Why review a self-labeled "development release" when there are so many final releases? Granted, it may be helpful for the developer, but I think only the final release would give the best picture."
I generally do reviews of distributions people request first and then, if I don't have any requests pending, tackle things I think may be interesting or recent releases from the big distros. If you would like to see me review something, drop me an e-mail with your suggestion.
27 • Bodhi (by Rich on 2011-03-14 16:40:31 GMT from United States)
As one of those "niche" tablet users, I'm glad to see a distro aimed at my hardware.
Here's "Distro Hoping" that I can make it work for me. Thanks Jeff.
And thank you Jesse, for the review.
28 • RE: 8 (by Landor on 2011-03-14 17:08:17 GMT from Canada)
"Bodhi is fast, lighter and not ugly. Runs fine on a vm with 450 MB of Ram. The very small RAM footprint is one of its strengths, among the other buntus around."
That is a very small RAM footprint? Running fine with 450 MB? I can get Debian 6.0 to run like a rocket with 40 and under. I highly doubt Bodhi could even come close to its responsiveness, let alone being so resource friendly. Hell, even my Gnome install beats Bodhi hands down in RAM usage as well.
I wouldn't be telling too many people that's light on resources... :)
On my netbook I don't have to worry about dealing with trying to make things scroll/shift so I can run click on something that's scrolled off the screen. One 'feature' E-17 could do without...
Keep your stick on the ice...
29 • Bodhi Profiles (by Jeff Hoogland on 2011-03-14 17:11:35 GMT from United States)
My only comment on the review is "I didn't find there was much of a difference between one and the next, except the Bare profile results in us having a mostly-empty screen."
You should have taken a moment to click into the tablet profile! It is *very* different from the other profiles. The power of E profiles allows us to be optimized for touch/small screens without the need for a separate install disc.
As far as text goes - I've never had trouble reading the default text in Enlightenment, but others seem to have issues with it. Perhaps I will enlarge it by default and then just reduce the size on my own systems.
Also, as Dan stated above the "sound muted by default" was fixed in the latest release.
Thanks for the Review!
30 • Bodhi / Debian / Ubuntu (by chris on 2011-03-14 17:19:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think that for people who cannot stand 'pain' (Debian), thank goodness for Ubuntu and it's derivatives.
31 • RE: 30 (by Landor on 2011-03-14 17:27:05 GMT from Canada)
Pain? Care to expand on that descriptive please, in detail? I'm very curious, as I've never seen that used in regard to an Operating System before. Are you a dual-booter by chance? Meaning, a Linux Kernel based Operating System and one from Microsoft or Apple?
Keep your stick on the ice...
32 • E17 of any kind (by Flip on 2011-03-14 17:31:41 GMT from United States)
Just to fancy for me the pulsing blinking fuzzing just hurts my eyes. Dont take me wrong I am a lifetime wearer of glasses so something that does not appeal to me is fine with someone with better eyes.
33 • Pain? (by chris on 2011-03-14 18:10:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes I am a dual booter (asus laptop, asus netbook, apple macbook pro etc).
The word 'pain' was used in the sense that most users, I think, want to switch on a pc and 'use it'. I do'nt think you can do this as easily using Debian, but you're closer to it with Ubuntu and it's derivatives and definately very close to it using OSX or even Windows 7! Perhaps a alternatives to 'pain' word should be 'difficult' or 'non-intuitive'
I think an Operating System should be user friendly, you should supply the new user with information and, or, wizards to help them to use the os.
Puppy Linux Lucid 5.2 automatically starts a 'help page' with essential information followed by wizards to setup graphics, keyboard, internet etc - it is'nt perfect but its going in the 'right' direction
34 • Bodhi (by fredpc on 2011-03-14 19:37:14 GMT from Australia)
Personally I love Bodhi .......it is great for older machines that don't have all the bells and whistles
It is a compact release that run without effort and although I did run into a couple of small problems,(that I managed to get fixed)....I think the reviewer should open his mind to the fact that not everyone wants an Os thats is bogged down with apps
I have tried over 36 different Linux Os's and have had mixed results on older machines.....Bodhi is one of the Os's that will boot very quickly ....it detects all the hardware on my machines and with a little work you can make it fantastic
Thats my 2 cents worth
35 • @28 • RE: 8 (by Landor (by meanpt on 2011-03-14 19:44:10 GMT from Portugal)
Came on, Landor, since when running on a 450 MB RAM ceiling means the same as of a RAM footprint? I'm sure you already read me above stating this thing lands with everything default in 67 MB, and you can achieve this with a buntu, not with a flimsy debian where you'll have to dig on terminal to install anything and to change anything, while using rox components. Moreover I can strip bodhi to get it starting with 56 MB of RAM. So can you. And you're still running a buntu 10-04 LTS, Get me another 10.04 buntu or 10.10 that runs as faster as this and still keeps the ability to configure the system with a gui. Go on. That's where the main beauty of the thing lyes.
36 • so frustrated... (by Petr Topiarz on 2011-03-14 19:53:23 GMT from Czech Republic)
I am absolutely frustrated from KDE 4 and GNOME 3, goodness, why change something that works into something that just looks good, but does not work?
maybe people will find the XFCE is something that still works, I can see no other good in it.
37 • alpine linux (the distro not the email clinet) (by technosaurus on 2011-03-14 19:59:39 GMT from United States)
Alpine has had a number of releases lately and seems to be the only active distro that primarily uses uClibc and uClibc++ as the primary libs for an x86 platform. It would be interesting to see how it stacks up against the glibc, eglibc and bsd platforms. Too bad they don't have a desktop version (yet ... though several desktop packages are available)
@35 - Puppy-5.x
38 • Bodhi is a good alternative (by MacLone on 2011-03-14 20:32:29 GMT from Mexico)
I'm writing this from Bodhi 0.17 and yes, it has its problems but it is an alpha/beta... and yes, it has bugs here and there (nvidia someone?) e17 is a little awkward but that's because is different. I'm Having a lot of fun with Bodhi anyway. Maybe you all want a distro with all the software in it so you can start doing things... but most of the time half the software included on mayor distros IS NOT what i want. Being minimalistic is not bad at all if you're planning to install just what u use only, it will take some time but once its done you'll have a lot of funny bling bling. ;P
Download it a judge for your self.
39 • Gnome 3 and Fedora 15 (by Tomás on 2011-03-14 20:48:34 GMT from Portugal)
I tested Fedora 15, it works good for a Aplha.
However, Gnome 3 lacked some items i consider very useful.
To begin, the login was not "seeing" my portuguese keys so i had to change root password to a "easy" password.
Yum worked really cool as usual. Install/Remove Software no. Because of the same problem with the login password. After solved, worked good.
Gnome 3: what a piece of.... hey... its kind of weird..hmmm.. it almost works.. its a bit hard to work and to loose a lot of time finding the windows i want in the desktop i want.... could be improved
The xfce and LXDE worked great
The Mysql-server had a problem on chkconfig. It really doesnt want to automatically start. Systemd it said..
I love Fedora but mysql-server must be fixed and gnome 3 re-arrenged.
The rest... i loved it. Very stable, fast and.... thats fedora
40 • Re: 18, 21, and 36 Gnome 3 (by Dan on 2011-03-14 21:09:24 GMT from United States)
18: Seriously, why would they keep giving this guy projects? Is he the only dev willing to work on UI stuff?
21 and 36: I hope the xfce, lxde, and e17 guys are taking stock. They have a huge opportunity over the next few months to gain users. Hopefully, they won't go down the same path as KDE4 and Gnome 3.
41 • Re: Jesse (by Dan on 2011-03-14 21:11:14 GMT from United States)
Despite my disagreement with your review, thanks for writing it. I hope you are working on Open SUSE for next week. That's my recommendation, at least.
42 • AriOS is bloated to hell and back... (by uz64 on 2011-03-14 21:16:46 GMT from United States)
The live CD refuses to run in even a 384MB virtual machine (the bare minimum for KDE4 to run successfully in my experience), let alone a VM with 450 megs of RAM. Booting directly to the installer to install and get working swap, the installer quickly crashes. I had to boot the live DVD natively on the machine (1GB RAM) for it to load properly, and even then it took its good old time loading. I am certainly not impressed with KDE4's memory footprint, but AriOS makes it look good. Real good. Seriously, WTF did these people do with this distro? I don't think even Ubuntu itself is quite *this* damn heavy. It's disgusting.
43 • Distro reviews (by Sean on 2011-03-14 21:18:00 GMT from Canada)
Hey Jesse, maybe next time you could do ALL the work before you write the review?
Did you bother to head over to the 'app store?' that apt-url fueled wonder the Bodhi folks put up?
No, you didn't. If you had, you'd have mentioned that flash and java weren't installed by default, but they were exactly three clicks away after logging in.
No you didn't. If you had, you'd have seen the multimedia codecs, as well as a selection of other software (which in most distros would have ended up cluttering up the live cd.)
This is linux, it's about choice. So when a distro reserves unto you the choice of free or non-free flash player, that is a good thing, not something to can the distro for.
I'll gladly stand up and fight for your right to your own opinion. In return I simply ask that you make it an informed one first.
44 • Bodhi (by babel on 2011-03-14 21:31:30 GMT from Mexico)
I've used gnome, kde, enlightenment, XFCE and I like e17 above all. I think there's no need to start attacking us regarding the best window manager, it's just about what does work for each one (in my case enlightenment, in many other cases gnome 2.6 or gnome 3).
About the review, I agree with it in some parts, but I also think the test of Bodhi was made having another window manager in mind (e17 is weird and unusual, which requires either a very opened mind or certain appeal to this kind of window managers, so it's natural that just a few persons find e17 a good window manager).
Either way, I don't think Bodhi is a waste of time, as I just said, I love e17 and starting with a minimal core lets you customize only the apps you'll use without installing the trash other distros pre-install for you, and I also found better art and themes than in puppy linux, but again, this is what works for me.
45 • openSUSE and Bodhi (by Jesse on 2011-03-14 21:35:27 GMT from Canada)
I am indeed looking at openSUSE and I'll probably have a review of it by the end of the week.
If you go back and read my review I didn't ever suggest it wasn't possible to install Flash or codecs. I'm well aware they're available and easy to install. I simply pointed out they're not in the default installation. For that matter I didn't complain about those items not being included in the default install. From the review: "Starting with a bare-bones system and building from the ground up is even a concept I can get behind for people who like a lean operating system."
Perhaps before you complain I'm not doing the work, you could read the review?
46 • Gnome 3 (by Michael on 2011-03-14 21:36:36 GMT from United States)
I love KDE and I don't use Gnome. I remember all the whining when KDE 4.0 come out. Here is a clue for people whining about Gnome 3. Don' t use it! And don't use alpha distributions! It's the nature of complex new software that there will be bugs and other issues. Use Fedora 14 until Fedora 16 comes out!
I actually enjoyed using KDE 4.0. It's fun to be on the bleeding edge, but I also had another partition with an KDE 3.? installed so I could do the tasks that were broken in KDE 4.0.
47 • apt-url install (by Dan_W on 2011-03-14 23:08:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sean in 43 claims that the bodhi software center makes it a 3 click business to install flash. When I tested 0.1.6 I found that to be untrue because the ubuntu multiverse repo that is set by default seems not to be online anymore. It was necessary to change the repo.
48 • #21 • Why fix when it's not broken? (by mattiii) (by Mark Pace on 2011-03-14 23:31:40 GMT from United States)
I feel the same way Mattiii. Why mess with success? Gnome as we now have it, even with its occasional shortcomings, is a great desktop environment, one that millions of users world wide including myself love. So why can't the work on the present iteration of Gnome continue alongside work on Gnome 3 and the Gnome shell?
I have no desire to move to KDE or any of the other DE's available out there after years of enjoying Gnome, however Gnome 3 so far leaves me cold. So there has to be a way to change a default Gnome 3 desktop back to 2.3+, don't you think? ..Please tell me this wish to remain with the traditional Gnome setup isn't just some pipe dream that I alone am having!!
49 • Gnome 3 (by Pumpino on 2011-03-14 23:31:31 GMT from Australia)
I usually love downloading the nightly or alpha builds of Fedora but have hated it this cycle. Why? Because of Gnome 3!
I switched to Gnome when KDE 4.0 was released. I thought that would go down in history as the biggest disaster in window manager history, but I was wrong. Gnome 3 is far, far worse.
Since Fedora is my distro of choice, I'll have to consider switching back to KDE *groans* or switch to another window manager and re-learn everything. It will be like learning a new OS. Why do developers have this burning need to introduce massive changes at the expense of usability? Gnome 2.32 is simple and user-friendly!
50 • ref - @ 19 • Bodhi (by Dan_W (by forlin on 2011-03-14 23:38:47 GMT from Portugal)
"I think you have to make allowances for selection bias"
I think so. We don't need to look too far for a good example:
Look at this, copy/past from the review:
"Moving the mouse over these quick-launch buttons causes the icons to pulse and the text to bounce, in case we weren't sure where the mouse pointer was located."
"But day-to-day usage of Bodhi completely rubbed me the wrong way. The pulsating icons,......"
"Once I got the hang of Run Everything and started finding it useful there were still surprises, like having the utility's window close if I clicked outside the Run Everything window." ... !!!
Bodhi come from nothing and three months later has + 400 registered users in its forum with + 5 thousand posts.
If that mean user lack of satisfaction, how do you evaluate user satisfaction?
51 • Gnome 3: the joy of clicking (by Ariszló on 2011-03-14 23:44:38 GMT from Hungary)
Well, I can use it without much trouble.Switching to another running window is easy. First you click on Activities to show all windows of the workspace and then you can click on the Window itself. In the outdated old paradigm you only click once, which is obviously less fun.
Gnome 3 is now catching up with KDE 4, where Kickoff allows you to click a lot to launch a single application, much cooler than the old K Menu which only lets you click once.
52 • Bodhi (by Jesse on 2011-03-15 00:15:09 GMT from Canada)
You seem to have skipped over another quote from the review which I think is important given the focus of your comment in post 50. Specifically
"I can't deny Bodhi brings something new to the table; the desktop it provides is certainly different. Judging from the number of downloads the project has experienced thus far it must be appealing to quite a lot of people."
I'm basically saying I don't like it, but obviously a lot of people do. How is that biased?
53 • Ref. 52 (by forlin on 2011-03-15 01:18:43 GMT from Portugal)
I few years ago I was very interested about computer hardware components. I did read hundred reviews of different components. The outcome is that I ended doing my own and my family systems. Some of these reviews are quite detailed and extensive. With time and experience, sometimes the reader tend to start from the end, where usually the conclusion / final thoughts are presented, and then look into the article for the facts that sustain those conclusions.
Two years ago I started to read a lot about Open Source and Linux. It was like finding a new world that I was not aware of, with a vibrant passionate and co-operant community of people. I ended ditching windows and did let myself to get engaged.
Comparatively, preparing an hardware component review or a Distro review presents very different issues. Many people using a certain distro, tend to see it with devotion and personal esteem, and not so much as a commodity, or a tool, in part because all have an opportunity to participate and cooperate on its development.
I still have the habit today, when I read a Distro review, to have a quick look at the "bottom line"
I'm not in a position to ask anything to anybody. Due to the way many react when they feel some kind of injustice is being committed to their preferred distros, where teams of people placed hundreds of hours of hard work, with the sole purpose of offering the best tool to each one use, I thing it would be preferable to avoid definitive conclusions in the way of yes or not. There are great distros and great differences among all. But there is not "the perfect one" that would satisfy all the world. I'm not skilled to review a distro, but I think that I would opt to end by presenting to the public the strong and the weakness noted and will invite each one to try it and evaluate by its own likes, preferences and equipment.
54 • Good old car analogy (by RollMeAway on 2011-03-15 01:40:40 GMT from United States)
Most cars in the world have a steering wheel on the left side, have an accelerator pedal
on the right, and brake pedal on the left.
This is analogous to the having a panel at the bottom and the window minimize/resize/close buttons top right.
Some countries move the steering wheel and driver to the right side of the car.
Like moving the panel to the top of the screen. Some like it, it is awkward for most.
Ubuntu comes along and puts the accelerator on the left, and brake pedal on the right.
Some how this is better, having the resize/close/minimize buttons relocated, and scrambled.
Slows down the average user, and panic for anyone in a hurry, having just driven a normal car.
Then along comes the novel idea: NO steering wheel, no pedals.
Lets just have a joystick on the console. It will do everything:
accelerate, brake, and steer.
This is analogous to how most e17 distros setup the desktop.
Completely foreign to what regular user are expecting.
Bodhi puts the steering wheel on the right, has a joystick with no pedals.
You want a rear view mirror? Go find one. Want a radio, air-conditioning?
Up to you, go find them.
Of course many people with time on their hands will enjoy doing just that.
Most are not interested.
e17 is quit capable of meeting all users preferences. Highly configurable.
Most users are NOT going to invest the time to learn how to set it up.
PCLinuxOS comes closest to a "standard" desktop with e17.
Perhaps user feedback will fine tune, and it will become more popular.
Sounds like the Gnome 3 and Unity are trying the joystick on the console,
with the driver laying on their belly behind it? Some will like that.
See how different I am!
55 • REf 50, 19 etc. (by Dan_W on 2011-03-15 02:27:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm sorry if I was unclear but by selection bias I was referring to the statistical phenomena.
Essentially the people who register on the bodhi forums do not constitute a random sample. It constitutes a self selecting sample of people who have at least enough of an investment in bodhi to surrender some personal details (which have a value) and participate in development (if only by offering comment).
Admittedly the set of people who review a linux distribution is also not random - but it has a less obvious bias.
I am not saying it is bad that people have joined the bodhi community, nor am I saying that their opinions are invalid. I am merely suggesting that if there is a systematic deviation between the reviews posted by general bloggers and reviews by bodhi forum members then this difference is entirely to be expected and does not constitute some weird conspiracy to do down bodhi.
56 • Ref 53 (by Andy Prough on 2011-03-15 02:50:24 GMT from United States)
@forlin - don't get too upset. Most linux distro reviews leave a lot to be desired. You should take a moment to promote the killer features of Bodhi.
Seems like Jesse was more than fair - at least he got it running and ran it for a few days. I've seen many reviews where the "reviewer" broke their own installation by using improper techniques, then refused to get help that was readily available from the community, and then wrote a review which basically said "well, this distro must be garbage because I couldn't get it running". In fact, I've seen those types of reviews on this very website, though not by Jesse. As I say, he tends to be more than fair.
Once again - take the opportunity to promote Bodhi - seems like a very intriguing idea that any of us could easily throw into a VirtualBox test bed and try out. I for one have been longing for a greatly trimmed down version of Ubuntu for a long, long time, and Xubuntu and Lubuntu have both been too bloated to do the job properly. I'll give Bodhi a spin in the next couple of days just for that reason.
57 • uz64 and Arios (by hotdiggettydog on 2011-03-15 04:26:57 GMT from Germany)
Have you tried Ultimate or Pinguy? Now those are bloated.
I've got Arios installed on one older machine and it runs quite nicely. I really enjoy Arios's use of Awn. Makes for a nice, clean desktop.
I, for one, appreciate the extras like java, flash, codecs, etc. The offline installer for graphics card drivers is a very nice touch.
58 • Ref 55 - statistical deviation phenomenas (by forlin on 2011-03-15 04:53:47 GMT from Portugal)
Of course its nothing about conspiracies.
Technically you're right. Now lets consider that do exist hundreds of distributions and include that in the deviation equation, to complicate. Why so many choose one distro and so few choose other?
59 • Most cars in the world have a steering wheel on the left side (by Stinger on 2011-03-15 06:54:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
Are you sure? Check your 'facts' very carefully. You may be correct but I wouldn't be too sure. Remember when Ron asked why the Japanese didn't import more American cars, only to be told 'You don't offer any models with right-hand drive'. Took the wind out of his sails. Then there's India, S. Africa, Australia & NZ....
Personally, I never use Gnome of any era. I don't like it. I know I can move the menu from top to base, load Xfce (at least in Fedora), etc. - but even then I don't like it.
Germans are cunning car makers - all the little holes in the chassis are present to fit the steering wheel either side. The French used to do it on some models, but the French are the French, so they don't bother any more...
Healthy scepticism is a wise strategy, especially where politicians, advertisers and distro developers, amongst others, are concerned. Attempted brainwashing is much more widespread than many imagine - not just the despotic regimes - look how many folks use Windoze....
60 • Flexibilty (by zykoda on 2011-03-15 09:55:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
If "fly by wire" is secure for aircraft, then why not "drive by wire" for cars. Handedness, remote control...etc. could be just relocating the "driver" and "control device".
I find the current desktops provide superfluous [a,e]pps and now resort to CLI, X, *wm, Xfce or e17, as desired, rather than Gnome or KDE. Sooooo very flexible and quick to change at login. Several X servers, possibly nested, can be started if required. And that still leaves the flexibilty of remote sessions and multiple users. Such a rich environment.
61 • Enlightenment on Bodhi's concept! (by LuxPro on 2011-03-15 10:35:38 GMT from India)
Honestly I should not be the one providing light on Bodhi's raison-d-etre but I guess my thinking gels with that of Bodhi's founders.
Certain people need a "clean" distro - one that only has what their customer needs. No other distractions. Bodhi is the light at the end of the tunnel for such people - people who build specialised systems for a production environment and require mass deployment. A POS terminal is an example of such situation.
You are surprised at the number of downloads that Bodhi draws - that is a reflection of how many system integrators (professional or hobbyist) there are!
I bumped into Bodhi searching for exactly such a minimal distro - one other is turnkey linux that appears to have made much headway. Turnkey's solutions are deployment ready. But Bodhi will also find a lot of space since it is actually a full distro unlike turnkey that is not for user experimentation.
62 • derivative distributions (by anonymous on 2011-03-15 13:58:54 GMT from United States)
To anyone thinking about making a derivative distribution: I am as perplexed as Jesse by the number of derivative distributions. There are many that simply perform some tasks that are made more difficult due to licensing (like codecs) or use a custom theme. Sorry but that isn't a good enough raison d'etre. It is, however, a good case for making a script, writing a blog post, tutorial or wiki entry, or uploading a theme. Take a look at the Debian Manifesto (http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ap-manifesto.en.html) sometime to get an idea on what are good reasons to make a distribution. Perhaps a rule you should use is: if _insert major distribution_ would realistically contemplate merging your ideas, then it might be a good enough idea to try to do that. If they don't, now you at least have a case to make your own distro.
63 • UTUTO (by Osoloco on 2011-03-15 14:59:19 GMT from Ecuador)
Nice to see the new release of UTUTO anounced in Distrowatch. I'll like to suggest a review of this promising distro in Distrowatch in the near future. I think it is a not widely known distro, but with a lot of original features, worth trying.
64 • CAOS Linux (by Roy H Huddleston on 2011-03-15 21:20:20 GMT from United States)
I thought here is a wonderful distro. Everything loaded wonderfully. Only I had trouble with the login. So I got this wonderful distro that I must not be smart enough to login into. All I could think was this really must be chaos not caos.
65 • Desktop Priorities (by Peter Besenbruch on 2011-03-15 22:12:58 GMT from United States)
I'll preface my comments by saying this week was a classic case of overemphasizing the desktop. I use a desktop to run programs. Second, I use a desktop to keep the programs handy while they are running. The most important aspects of a desktop are stability, and the actual programs that I run.
From my perspective KDE ruined some perfectly good programs in the transition from 3 to 4. These especially include the KDEPIM suite. While I can still run the KDE3 versions of the programs via the Trinity project, the KDE4 versions insist on running database back ends that clog up RAM even if they aren't needed. There is no option of turning them off. For someone not in a large, collaborative office environment, there is simply no reason to run such useless, dead weight.
Gnome has always struck me as a bit too simplistic for my taste, but it got the job done. The elimination of the minimize and maximize buttons in Gnome 3 has crossed a line for me. It strikes me that the new version of Gnome is less good at keeping programs handy. Some day, I will try Gnome 3 out, but so far, things don't look good.
Fancy visual effects get old fast. That is true of Compiz, Enlightenment, or KDE. If the effects don't provide otherwise missing feedback (and the vast majority don't) they exist only to consume resources, and trigger bugs in X.
I have an old EEEPC 901. Because of the limited size of the drives, I don't run a swap partition. I also haven't upgraded the RAM. It's still the original 1 Gig. Yet with this system, I run LibreOffice, Windows (via VirtualBox), and Firefox, and all at the same time. LXDE makes that possible. While LXDE could use some extra configuration options, I prefer its light weight, and the ability to maximize screen real estate using the ALT-SPACE-D keystroke combination. In short, LXDE lets me run a lot of programs in a limited environment, and it is good at keeping them handy.
I now use XFCE on larger screens. It gives me faster access to my programs via launchers, and uses a bog standard interface that offers no surprises. That's good when using more powerful machines. XFCE gives a little more visual feedback when moving the mouse cursor around, but it's nothing excessive.
In short, KDE and Enlightenment in their own ways, provide too much, while Gnome is moving towards providing too little for a functional desktop. Mercifully there are other options for running programs, and any of them (including the ones I am less than thrilled with) will get the job done.
66 • Bodhi (by Kaiz on 2011-03-15 22:47:11 GMT from United States)
I -love- this little distro and in fact ended up installing it from my initial bootable flash drive (both worked great, the hd install is smoking fast both loading and shutting down) on an older 512 meg. eeepc 8g. No sound or other issues whatsoever, finds the nic and wifi, etc..
I have also used Puppy (5.x Lucids, Quirky and Wary) via flash all with varied though mostly good results.
Speed, basic programs and little else is all I personally need, and frankly as much as I love (and use) various Puppies & Wary 05 in particular on different machines, Bodhi so suits me on the netbook I just can't seem to find anything better.
Re. Bodhi being a tad like a souped-up TinyCore, I agree... and that's why I like it.
67 • Andy @ 56 (by forlin on 2011-03-16 02:19:53 GMT from Portugal)
Thanks for your attention and interest, Andy
"Once again - take the opportunity to promote Bodhi "
Do you know what I think? The best that could happen to promote further development / progress in the Bodhi Linux, is not a good review. ....It is a parallel project to be created, to stimulate competition.
I'm firmly convinced that there is a demand for a minimalist Enlightenment Distro (I mean Enlightenment only distros, for higher focus so that upstream cooperation can flow more effectively).
So, a similar project, maybe based on Debian, would be great to further contribute to improve / expand / promote the enlightenment Desktop.
68 • Ubuntu Minimalism and "Progress" (by RO on 2011-03-16 02:20:04 GMT from United States)
What the aitch - if you want to start out minimal, just install the Ubuntu Server version, and add on as wanted. I did that with 8.04 and added on XFCE, then other pieces as needed. That was on a desktop with 2 GB RAM and "screaming" 3.19 Ghz Celeron. Quite the "Wow! factor" for someone moving up from a 1.3Ghz AMD with 1.5 GB RAM,
That stated, am I correct in thinking that option has disappeared in the newer Ubuntu versions? If so, then Bodhi and others that are packaged as minimalist might be justified as an option for those so inclined.
As it is now, I would like to find a 10.04-based desktop version to upgrade my Mint 7 notebook installation that will still support my old Fujitsu Lifebook 5020 with "only" 1 GB of RAM, 1 Ghz Pentium M, and Intel 855 graphics, and suspend/resume.
It seems those last 2 criteria have fallen by the wayside since Mint 7, so now I am running an unsupported desktop Linux version since the "new, improved" versions have left the past behind with a vengeance - ironic that 10 year-old WinXP runs better on it than any Ubuntu's I have tried since about Mint 7 (actually, XP supports the graphics better with newer, bigger monitors!).
I probably should start checking out other non-buntu versions more, but am getting tired of all that burn-n-churn when so much of the shared core stuff in "updated"drivers and the kernel are common to so many distros, and thus they all are dropping support for my old stuff that is still quite useful with the right software.
If I did not not hate the "exposure factor" and commercial lock-ins of Windoze so much, I would probably move away from Linux as it moves away from my equipment. Something is wrong with this picture...
Sorry, it's late, and I am feeling grumpier than usual, but had to get that out of my system ;-)
69 • Re. #68 (by Kaiz on 2011-03-16 02:52:47 GMT from United States)
I admit to likely sounding like a Luddite, but old boxes and lappys are my gig. Keep 'em out of landfills. Use until fried, then cannibalize. I'm not a tree-hugger but there is something wonderful about re-purposing boat anchors... and trust me, I'm using Wary 05 on an old 512 meg. Gateway as I type this... this thing even began to balk at Mint 7... but Wary rocks on it. For whatever reason Bodhi didn't handshake as well but it flys on the eeepc.
Great and too often-overlooked point from RO in #86":
"my old stuff that is still quite useful with the right software". BINGO.
This is a huge point for Bodhi and other such little 'nixes... and yes, Winhose ain't my cup of tea for more reasons than I care to count, therefore give room for us non-techies who are daily productive on old machines BECAUSE of small distros such as Bodhi and Puppy. Bloat is simply a deal-breaker and a great many people such as myself are Linux junkies in part to get -away- from it.
70 • Linux on older hardware (by eamonnb on 2011-03-16 10:36:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
For older or more low end hardware or for just a lighter computing experience I find Debian netinstall and Ubuntu mini iso installs to be very good.Of course there will be some failures particularly the further back in time the hardware goes but, in my experience, surprisingly few.
A basic Debian with lxde can boot up using as little as 40 mb of ram. It might be a bit spartan for some but there are other desktops that are fairly light such as xfce4 and gnome-core.
I'm typing this from a Dell Inspiron 1300 laptop with an Ubuntu 10.04 mini install. Boots up in 30 secs and runs well on the gnome-core desktop.
There are other good Linux distros for lighter computing but I always seem to come back to those two.
71 • End Of Life machines #69 (by zykoda on 2011-03-16 11:08:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
All my "linux" machines are recycled originally "windows(TM)" gear, which outperform the original OSes. I started by using linux live CDs to repair/replace hard drives, but you know how curiosity works! By now I must have successfully "cloned" windows tenfold and installed as many multi-boots at no cost but the new hard drive. Hardware failures have been memory(2), hard drives(6), PSU(3), PCI cards(1). Since the early memory failures, low cost Belkin and APC UPSes have always been used on both windows and linux. The UPSes tend to get triggered only a few times per year now the local mains transformer has been replaced. No lightning strikes yet, and only one power line failure (storm/flood).
72 • Here's a page focused on dispelling what they call myths about GNOME 3 (by Mark Pace on 2011-03-16 15:23:06 GMT from United States)
As someone who's concerned about such things, given that Gnome is my DE of choice, I was interested in finding out as much as I could regarding what we might expect when Gnome 3 arrives in force. Among other sites I ran into this one which I felt was worth passing along for others to examine as well:
73 • Ref. #64 (by LinuxFreak on 2011-03-16 15:30:03 GMT from Germany)
Hello Roy H Huddleston,
just read through this manual and search for "password":
It seems that while in live mode, you can set the root password yourself. If you start the installer from live mode, a password for user 'admin' will be randomly generated and shown to you on screen, and you'll be advised to jot it down as 'admin' will be the default user account from which you can later change the password for user admin and create other user accounts.
74 • Re. 57 - Arios & Bloat (by uz64 on 2011-03-16 21:55:03 GMT from United States)
Yes, I have tried Ultimate Edition, and yes, it sure is bloated pretty bad. It can only be described as "Ubuntu with a new theme and a bunch of (mostly unsupported) crap preinstalled by default". Automatix (now Ultamatix) anyone (I'll pass...)? But I'm pretty sure the distribution at least *runs* in 384MB of RAM, probably a decent amount less, which is more than I can say about Arios. As for Pinguy, no, never used it, but I'll take your word for it on it being bloated. It doesn't look too attractive to begin with.
Before I tried Arios, Sabayon was the "gold standard" to me when it comes to Linux distribution bloat (and before that, probably SUSE or something). Although Sabayon hasn't really decreased the bloat to the point of requiring less RAM, it has become slightly faster over time. On a side note, openSUSE has also improved their speeds (but not really overall bloatedness) quite a bit, since around the time they hired the guy originally behind Yoper. A good move IMO, but I miss Yoper and it's just never really been the same since he left the project.
75 • Intel Graphics Issues and Mint 10 (by KevinC on 2011-03-17 01:56:19 GMT from United States)
Has anyone noticed Intel gfx problems (flashback 9.04) w/ Mint 10. I was running this on my netbook (eee 1002ha) w/ an Intel 945 chipset. I noticed Cairo was fading out in slow motion. Ran glxgears and results were a pathetic 50 fps. Disabled Cairo dock, Compiz and all the eye candy and it was actually worse---like 45ish fps. So I ran Mint 10 Live DVD from USB stick and same results. Mint 9 gives circa 250ish fps, smooth 2D desktop effects and decent (vs. choppy w/ 10) fullscreen Flash video. I haven't tried Maverick Live CD yet, but I have feeling this is the old Intel gfx problem rearing its head. If so that's a helluva regression. I thought this was ancient history.
76 • Intel Graphics Support Bug(s) - It's BAAAA-ACK (by RO on 2011-03-17 03:31:41 GMT from United States)
@75 - that was one my big issues I was trying to convey in #68. It has bitten my Lifebook P5020, P1610, Vaio VGN-P530H, and wife's Lenovo/IBM ThinkCentre desktop (with a funky PCI-Express, so hard to find ATI or Nvidia alternate graphics cards to "override" the built-in Intel). One thing for sure, if I buy any other newer PC's (been focusing on Android tablets lately), they damn sure will not have Intel Graphics (if I want to stay with Linux...). A shame, though, that old Linux Intel bug(s) seem to keep coming back - at least in Ubuntu - is this happening in Fedora and others? I have looked at the workarounds to restore older driver versions, and tweak xorg.conf, but that is a lot of work that is not a sure fix.
Oh, and the Lexmark Z15 ("Z6000") driver I have been using since Ubuntu 5.10 or so for my wife's Linux PC's, now the ThinkCentre, fail if I try Ubuntu 10.04 or newer with library incompatibilities. Another failure of "progress"!
I have been thinking of going with a more minimal base distro with modular adding on ala Bodhi, TinyCore, etc, but it seems to be a lot of work to get a fully featured setup that will be stable, and also keep up with basic app updates such as browsers, Open/Libre Office, Flash, etc, and security updates. Then all that work can be undone by arbitrary kernel and library updates to drop "old, unpopular" device support - reading about that month after month in Linux Journal's "diff -u" column is really depressing. Too much like the old Windoze "dll Hell" problems I would rather forget.
77 • @#30, 'Debian pain' (by samuel on 2011-03-17 09:03:56 GMT from Italy)
I think some 'pain' in distros isn't a bad thing. It's through these 'pains' that personally I have come to learn something about computers other that writing a word documet, saving and printing it. In dealing with the same pains that I discovered forums, was using Ubuntu then. For some particular 'pain' in Debian squeeze, ethernet card failure on Dell Inspiron 530, I have learnt what is 'firmware'. Those 'pains' are for me challenges and I enjoy dealing with them with help from forums.
78 • @75 Intel Graphics Issues (by philip on 2011-03-17 11:24:21 GMT from United States)
I've just checked this on my eee 901 (also with intel 945 chipset), which has Ubuntu 10.04 installed. Glxgears gives a frame rate of ~230 fps.
Using an OpenSuse 11.4 (Gnome) live usb stick gives me a glxgears frame rate of about ~20 fps! OpenSuse 11.4 (KDE) refused to enable compositing.
So looks like some intel gfx issues have returned...
79 • re #77 debian self flagellation (by gnomic on 2011-03-17 14:17:53 GMT from New Zealand)
Far be it from me to in any way criticise Debian, but I have had some trying times with the live LXDE DVD of Deb 6 (a mere 750MB for those who are exercised by such matters). Of course there was no Broadcom wifi firmware for this particular Compaq lappie, but I used an AR2413 wifi PC Card and was away on the internet after reading up on how to get wpa_supplicant going under Debian. Alas, it was up and it was down, the internet access that is. After reading the fine interwebs manual it appeared that Debian has a habit of rewriting /etc/resolv.conf in a particularly recondite fashion each time the dhcp lease is renewed. Thereafter DNS may work - or not. It was kind of annoying. It seems users were being vexed by this issue back in 2006. It's not a problem I have encountered with other distros. Perhaps the wifi ap/router in question needs to be told about some specific nameservers. At the moment I think it is just looking to the ISP to do DNS. Anybody know of a problem with ath5k/Debian in this regard and how to resolve it?
80 • re: resolv.conf in Debian (by Peter Besenbruch on 2011-03-17 21:42:17 GMT from United States)
This isn't so much a Debian issue, as a DCHCP issue. It makes sense for a Linux distro to query for available DNS servers when establishing a network connection. If you want to keep the a constant DNS, you can:
1) Use a static connection. In that case, the resolv.conf file isn't rewritten.
2) Use prepending. You edit the /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf file. Load it into a text editor as root, or administrative user (via sudo). Look for the string, "prepend domain-name-servers". Uncomment it, and add the ip address(es) that you want. The address will appear at the top of your resolv.conf when it is rewritten.
I suppose you could do something radical, like get rid of dhcp3-client and dhcp3-common, but if you are doing any traveling with your machine, it's probably not a good idea.
81 • RE: 35 (by Landor on 2011-03-18 03:45:09 GMT from Canada)
"Came on, Landor, since when running on a 450 MB RAM ceiling means the same as of a RAM footprint? I'm sure you already read me above stating this thing lands with everything default in 67 MB, and you can achieve this with a buntu"
Actually, I didn't read that until you pointed it out to me. But, I also read that the person at post #23 clocking it at 101 with the browser open. I have to agree with them, since I don't like to 'not know' what I'm talking about, I downloaded the latest release again, booted it (more on that in a minute. lol!!!!) and checked its ram usage. Without the browser it's sitting at 89 mb-idle. With the browser it's 102 mb-idle. Now, I know you like to force stuff to use less ram by giving it less and less to see how it will perform. If that's what you did, and you had to do something to get it to use almost 25% less than two other people, that doesn't mean crap. By my testing (and the user at post #23, it is almost double the ram usage of a 'standard netinstal of Xfce' for Debian. Let me say that one more time. almost double the ram usage of a 'Standard Netinstal of Xfce'. Meaning, not a hybrid, not tweaked, just install Debian then install Xfce base and boot it. Which I want to point out is the recommended way to install anything on Debian, from the netinstal, and the most popular I might add.
Now to probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen someone type here, and sorry, I'm being honest:
"not with a flimsy debian"
Flimsy? Flimsy Debian? You're serious here? That's insane. Let me get us the definition for flimsy from an online dictionary:
Webster's 1828 Dictionary: FLIM'SY, a. s as z. [The word is retained by the common people in New England in limsy, weak, limber, easily bending.]
1. Weak; feeble; slight; vain; without strength or solid substance; as a flimsy pretext; a flimsy excuse; flimsy objections.
I booted Bodhi in VirtualBox and the pile of crap still needs the person to hit enter for it to even get to a boot menu. Then as it was booting it was missing shared libraries to load the bootsplash, so the bootsplash didn't work. Bodhi has what, a handful of developers, it's broken, and in comparison you consider Debian flimsy..lmao! WoW! Flimsy. I've heard it all. Flimsy! lol
Listen, you and Forlin can be fanboys of a distribution, it's your right, but let me explain something to you. Not long ago, do you remember a distribution called Peppermint? I recall the two of you jumping up and down and waving the Peppermint banner all over the place. I don't see you do that much anymore (not at all actually), understand my point here? If not, I honestly believe one day you'll tire of Bodhi too, like most do of these little side distractions and you'll get back to doing whatever you normally do on your computer.
I also find it funny that the majority of the people here pumping their fists in the air about Bodhi are fans of Puppy. That tells me quite a bit, seriously. What else I find funny is how little people actually know about anything, seriously. Sidux had a base install that you added what you wanted from, and have had it for a long time. Though I personally would smash my computer if Sidux was the only thing I could run on it. Another one, which is far lighter, better maintained, and a project with far more experience behind it that offers a base install is AntiX. It's also based on Debian. But every noob here is dropping down on the ground and prostrating themselves in front of Bodhi as if it's brought this new revelation to them in the way of a base install. What a joke.
It's been broken for months, and now it's got new things broken in it..lol Yes, it's magical indeed. :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
82 • Intel Gfx again... (by KevinC on 2011-03-18 03:51:03 GMT from United States)
Well @ 1st I didn't notice the gfx issue w/ Mint 10, b/c I usually don't really visit many flash sites anymore. I did fresh install of 10 from 9...and not until I noticed the slo-mo Cairo...and then tried to do some full screen You Tube for my youngest...well that was a no go. I ran glxgears and was shocked. It's not biggy, tho, just backed up my data and went back to 9. That was my plan initially, anyway, w/ 9 being LTS. One thing that I found telling was that the glxgear framerate was actually better w/ Compiz enabled, by about 5-10 fps. This weekend I'll try that experiment w/ Mint 9 and see if this holds true. And I plan to load a live cd of Maverick and see if it has the low framerates as well. As I said I'm getting around 250ish framerates w/ Mint 9...which is much better (tho, sad compared to my desktop, which has an Nvidia 9800GT and runs around 10K under Mint 10 w/ Nvidia drivers)
83 • RE: 81 (by Landor on 2011-03-18 06:24:58 GMT from Canada)
An addition. I almost forgot that the Unity guys build another base distribution, and they even had an E-17 build.
It just goes to show just how much the noobs in this community suffer from Distribution A.D.D. Something new comes along and it's, "Ooohhhh Shiny" for a few weeks/months, extolling all these virtues that other projects have had for years, and do better. Then they move on to something else that comes along.
Keep your stick on the ice...
84 • gnome in fedora (by Reuben on 2011-03-18 09:27:56 GMT from United States)
I tried the fedora 15 alpha gnome live cd, and I got a desktop that looked nothing like the screenshot above. It looked like a standard gnome 2.x two panel layout, except it looked off. What gives?
85 • #83 + #81 - Landor (by meanpt on 2011-03-18 12:31:24 GMT from Portugal)
1. Bodhi's memory toll: everyone here can grab the iso, install it in a vb's virtual vm, install it, restart it, open the terminal and run the free command, before anything else. The figures will be the ones I, a noob, already pointed, not yours, a full fledged and competent linuxer.
2. My survival debians are those I kept out of updating. All the others went broken. You see, I'm not a long time competent linuxer, but I still keep a fair margin of sanity to know what breaks and what doesn't.
3. I'm a fanboy of what runs fast, is noob friendly enough and doesn't break in the next day's updates. Despite still being quite experimental, Bodhi fits it. And it seems you didn't find a faster 10.04 or even 10.10 around, once you didn't contest it.
4. I'm not sure what's your problem with noobs that like a distro, and point what they like in it. The arguing you had with the main Bodhi's developer is a problem you have to deal with, not only as a long time competent linuxer, but also as the educated person you are, without throwing your spear rocks to the head of noobs.
86 • RE: gnome in fedora (by Mike on 2011-03-18 12:40:45 GMT from United States)
@Reuben, what you are describing sounds like the fallback option if the system thinks you don't have a video card capable of handling gnome-shell. I believe there is a bug where in some cases the timeout to the fallback is too aggressive and in some cases reverts to fallback even though the video card should support it.
I installed the fedora 15 alpha and have been pleasantly surprised with how well it and gnome-shell are working.
87 • Re: 86 (by Reuben on 2011-03-18 17:54:13 GMT from United States)
This a nvidia 7800gs. Fedora use the nouveau driver. KWin can use XRender with this driver, which allows effects like transparency, but won't do things like cover switch or wobbly windows. What exactly does gnome shell require?
Anyways, I like that it ships with Firefox 4. Youtube WebM videos right out the box. No buggy flash required. And youtube seems to be converting more and more videos to WebM.
88 • RE: 87 (by Mike on 2011-03-18 21:00:43 GMT from United States)
I would take a look here regarding nouveau driver tests for the Fedora Alpha with gnome 3:
89 • RE: 89 (by Reuben on 2011-03-18 22:04:57 GMT from United States)
I'm now using an install from the KDE image. Nouveau works flawlessly. All 3D effects are there, and my dual-head setup was automatically detected with zero configuration. (The last one has been working since Constantine.) Now to play around.
90 • RE: 85 (by Landor on 2011-03-19 04:50:34 GMT from Canada)
So far it's two users who booted it up and got the exact same numbers as opposed to one person with extremely impossible numbers unless it was modified. I think that's more than proof enough.
If Debian stable is broken I'd put money on the fact that Debian didn't break it, you did. If you're talking about a Debian based distribution that has 0 to do with Debian. But also, it doesn't mean anything because it is still an absolutely ridiculous comment to say call Debian flimsy in comparison to Bodhi..lmao!!!! Thanks for the laughs though, I really did laugh at reading that one.
I don't run Ubuntu, sorry. I don't test Ubuntu either. The last version I used was 9.10 and it was so stripped down and all the proprietary/closed source vile crap torn out of it even Shuttleworth wouldn't have recognized. It was also junk and was broken more times than not from these updates that you are proud to call stable..lol.. Bohdi doesn't fit crap. You talk about stuff being broken then you say Bodhi fits (as if it's not broken), it's been broken since it started, and it's broken even more now. Yes, Bodhi fits, it fits a distribution that should still be on the waiting list. (more on that in a moment)
I don't have a problem with noobs. I find them amusing. I like to watch them jump from one bandwagon to the next like all the other sheeple and bleat the same thing. A few weeks/months we'll see a new one that everyone's so excited about. I had to smile that you think Jeff's comments have anything to do with facts. Sure, he was ignorant, and then I considered him a kiss ass for making up an excuse. If I didn't like someone, and I didn't like what they said, nothing, and I mean nothing would make me make up some excuse and call it a bad day or the like. Says a lot about someone that does. I'd have more respect for him if he admitted it all instead of making up excuses. But, as I said, all that has 0 to do with the fact that Bodhi is being flogged by noobs, and no doubt it'll stop not far off in the future. It has nothing to do with the fact that Bodhi is broken. It has nothiong to do with the fact that there's better, more resource friendly, well developed distributions that have been doing what he's tried for a lot longer, thus a lot more experience. Those are the things that it has to do with.
Ladislav, after running the 0.1.7 ISO, I have to question the reasoning for Bodhi being taken off the waiting list. It's more than obvious a couple things have been broken in it for quite some time. It's also obvious that he's still uploading image after image that's broken. The missing libraries for the bootsplash is one example. You can't miss that, it's right in your face, but up the ISO went to be distributed. I honestly believe he doesn't understand a lot to do with the boot process for a Live CD. It's my opinion that is why you're dropped to a syslinux boot prompt at boot and why the bootsplash doesn't work. I really believe this distribution should go back to the waiting list until he learns how to fix things that he doesn't know how to.
Keep your stick on the ice...
91 • @ 90 I really believe this distribution should go back to the waiting list (by forlin on 2011-03-19 12:32:29 GMT from Portugal)
I guess no one in DW will listen to this irrational and isolated proposal.
I see a live CD as a tool to find if a distro works with each one's hardware.
There are Distros with the vocation to be only a live CD, with a purpose.
Bodhi isn't one of those. You should have noticed that.
92 • @ 90 (by forlin on 2011-03-19 12:36:10 GMT from Portugal)
I've seen many, many verbal (ok, written) confrontations and debates, a beat here, a beat everywhere else where we go to read about Linux / Open Source. Some more heated than others some with too much strong feelings than needed, or not. All in all, that's needed. Discussion is good to generate action, to keep people focused and to open fields to new development ideas and directions.
All that considered, what I think that is important is to keep discussions centered around the outputs code is intended to produce and preform, witch is to offer a good computing experience to the public and the consumers. Unfortunately, more often than needed, things ends on personal battles and people starting hit each other with totally futile and unproductive aggressions.
@ 90 is a good example of it.
93 • Re: 90 No Bootsplash is a "show stopper"? (by Jeff Hoogland on 2011-03-19 14:40:21 GMT from United States)
You mention piles of things are broken, but the only thing you mentioned is a lack of a boot splash on older/virtual hardware. The lack of boot splash is intentional - we do not have anyone on the team yet that knows how to work with text based plymouths, so I simply removed the text plymouth all together. This was intentional not an oversight.
So aside from a cosmetic issues that only happens at boot on SOME systems, care to enlighten us to the other things in the ISO that have been "broken for some time".
94 • @90 & 85 -Bodhi ram usage (by dive.ed on 2011-03-19 16:00:38 GMT from United States)
I am not a Bodhi fan or user but was curious about the ram debate so I just downloaded the current version and ran a test in VirtualBox. Started the Live cd and at the desktop started a terminal and ran free -m. It was only using 68M RAM. I then installed it and again ran free -m and it reported using only 55M RAM. This was the default install, I made no modifications and chose the desktop installation. I then started the web browser, ran free again and it reported 63M of ram used.
As a result of my test I have to agree with meanpt on this debate. Care to explain how you tested and I will see if I can duplicate your results. Ed
95 • Follow up @94 (by dive.ed on 2011-03-19 17:48:12 GMT from United States)
I forgot to mention how I had VirtualBox configured. 256M ram, 128M video ram and 3D selected,8GB HD, using version 4.0.2. Thought the video settings might be making a difference, so I set it at 8M video ram and turned off 3D. Started it back up and retested. Results 51M without browser, 61M with browser. Better than the first test.
96 • @95 - by Ed (by meanpt on 2011-03-19 20:31:50 GMT from Portugal)
You achieved more than me. That's awesome how a 10.04 can turn into such a meager and fast runner. Hope Landor will recommend it to friends, as a debian based distro :)
97 • @95 - another test (by dive.ed on 2011-03-20 00:22:37 GMT from United States)
On my first test I passed the screen which asks what programs you want to add to the quick start menu without selecting any. Thinking that adding icons to that menu might change ram usage I wiped the install and did another install selecting all the programs in the list, adding them to the menu. This resulted in a slight increase of ram usage to 57M & 67M depending on if I had the browser running.
I do not know if the hardware on my machine can effect the VirtualBox performance. My machine is home built with Asus motherboard, Intel Q6600 quad core processor, 4GB ram, & GeForce8800 GTS video card with 640MB. YMMV. Ed
98 • @97 • @95 - another test (by dive.ed (by meanpt on 2011-03-20 18:30:35 GMT from Portugal)
:) hmmmm ,, cause I'm using the tablet profile, I guess I can live with only three of those icons :)
99 • @ 43 - Distro reviews and Install CD's (by forlin on 2011-03-20 20:56:07 GMT from Portugal)
Regarding the Bodhi review, user Sean said:
"Did you bother to head over to the 'app store?' that apt-url fueled wonder the Bodhi folks put up?"
"No you didn't. If you had, you'd have seen the multimedia codecs, as well as a selection of other software (which in most distros would have ended up cluttering up the live cd.)"
The idea about creating a "private app store" is what we could say the "egg of Columbus" of the Bodhi board team. Why? Windows users, after buying their new PC go to places like Cnet, Tucows and other major download sites to transfer the applications and other content they want to use in their pc's.
The Bodhi developers have created the "Bodhi Get Software" and "Bodhi Art" which have exactly the same purpose. To give users the option to install software with one click, or to download and install later (p.e. machines without net connection), in a way similar to the above mentioned ones.
It's a brilliant idea to make life easier to new users because they'll be able to get their install completed in manner that everybody is familiar with. Other distros could well follow it.
Those who prefer to have a complete set of software as from the install moment, were not forgot too. At the Bodhi get software site, there are two meta-packages, the "Nikhila Application Set", an Application Suite of full featured software, and the "Pratibha Application Set", an Application Suite that focuses on packages that are light on resources but high on functionality. Each of them are installed with one click.
These are the important features that unfortunately were not mentioned in the review but that would have provided interested readers with much higher value than items like the difficulty to find Synaptic, the pulsating icons, the text issues or the Run Everything issue.
Number of Comments: 99
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