 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 391, 7 February 2011 |
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Welcome to this year's 6th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Last weekend will be forever remembered for the arrival of "Squeeze", a new stable version of Debian GNU/Linux. This is only the project's 11th stable release in 16.5 years of existence (Ubuntu has made more releases in just six years), so every new version provides an opportunity for a party. Congratulations to the hundreds of developers that build the world's largest Linux-based operating system! Besides covering Debian's release, this week's news section also looks at the killer features in the upcoming Ubuntu 11.04, investigates the reasons behind release delays of CentOS and Mageia, links to an article that explains the process of upgrading a Mandriva installation to the latest "Cooker", and suggests an easy way to test GNOME 3 with a special openSUSE live CD. This week's feature story is a first-look review of Saline OS, a new Debian-based distribution that uses the Xfce desktop, while the Questions and Answers section examines a way of keeping a laptop's temperature down with the cpufreqd utility. Happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
First impressions of Saline OS 1.0
 Saline is a fairly new distribution to the Linux scene, having just reached the 1.0 mark in January. The distro is based off Debian Squeeze which, at the time of writing, is due to become the official Debian Stable branch any day. The Saline website is small at this point, featuring some information on the distribution, support forums and screenshots. The ISO for the 1.0 download weighs in at 886 MB, pushing it into DVD-size territory. Given the large download it may be surprising to learn Saline's live disc boots into the light Xfce desktop environment. I found the appearance of the desktop very appealing. The quick-launch bar at the bottom of the screen and the application switcher at the top are done in dark colours with a pleasant high-contrast. The wallpaper is a blue underwater view and there are a few icons lining the left side of the screen. The icons include links to browse Saline's file system, an installer and a user's manual.
I feel the manual deserves special mention as it's nicely put together. It's presented as a PDF document and covers available software in the live environment, how to install Saline to the local hard drive, restricted multimedia codecs and proprietary video drivers. There's also a section on WINE for people who need to run Windows applications. There is a short section on LAMP servers and the manual concludes with a list of common command-line programs with a brief description of what each one does. Each section is short, but covers the basics and will be a handy aid to Linux newcomers.
Saline OS 1.0 - visiting the project's website
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The system installer is one I haven't seen before. It takes a simplistic approach, asking for one piece of input on each screen. The installer starts off asking which drive we'd like to use for the installation and then hands us over to GParted to carve up the disk. Once GParted exits, we're asked which partition we want to use for swap space, which partition we'd like to mount as the root directory and whether we'd like to format the root partition as ext3 or ext4 -- those are our only two file system options. Additionally we're asked if we'd like to assign the /home mount point to its own partition or place it on the root partition. From there we're asked to set a root password and create a regular user account. We set our machine's hostname and pick where we want to install GRUB. Then the GUI installer disappears and we're shown a small terminal window which asks us to choose our time zone from a list. Once a time zone is selected, the terminal window disappears and the GUI pops up again. At this point the installer goes to work copying over its files and configuring our system, but we're not shown any indications of progress. It's a matter of crossing our fingers and waiting for about fifteen minutes to see what happens. In my case the installer completed successfully and I was able to boot into my local copy of Saline.
Saline OS 1.0 - running updates in a virtual machine
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The user's manual mentions two icons in the upper-right corner of the desktop. One of these is labelled "Clean" and will wipe the user's browser history, cache and Flash cookies. It's a quick way to clean up after ourselves. The other button is the Update button. The Update icon isn't animated, so there isn't any way for us to tell if new packages are available without clicking it. Launching the updater causes a terminal window to open and we get to watch the Debian package tools at work as they check for updates and then proceed to download and install any and all available packages. There's no prompt to confirm and, given the cryptic nature of the output, it's likely to be off-putting to novice users. For that matter, I found it unpleasant and I knew what the output meant.
My displeasure with the update tool continued when, a few days later, I ran the updater again and it paused, telling me a package available for updating was considered unsafe. I was then prompted to type "yes" to continue or "no" to abort. Typing "no" does abort, but causes all other available updates to also be ignored. Typing "yes" caused the update script to hang each time I tried it. Fortunately Saline comes with Synaptic, providing an easy avenue for straightening out such issues. Synaptic, of course, not only handles updates, but also smoothly assists the user in adding and removing software, and there is a lot of software. Saline, being based on Debian, has access to a large supply of software and, chances are, if you're looking for open source software, you can find it here.
Saline comes with most of the software one would expect from a desktop Linux distro, including the Chromium web browser, Icedove (also known as Thunderbird), Pidgin for instant messaging and Transmission. OpenOffice is included, along with a PDF viewer, a calendar app, a backup tool and a partition manager. The GIMP is included in the application menu, as is Rhythmbox, the Cheese webcam utility, a multimedia player and CD burner. Saline additionally comes equipped with the standard Xfce apps to adjust look & feel settings and codecs for playing audio files. While audio worked well, I found video files would not play, nor did the system come with Flash pre-installed. In the background we have access to the GNU Compiler Collection and Java.
One thing I felt Saline was missing was a good GUI firewall tool. The system runs a mail service without any firewall in place to block remote connections. While it can be handy to have a mail system for reporting events, I think the average desktop user can do without it and would benefit from having an easy-to-use firewall utility.
Saline OS 1.0 - multimedia and image editing on Saline OS
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I started my experiment with Saline on my HP laptop (dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, Intel video card) and found the performance to be fair. My desktop was set to an appropriate resolution and sound worked out of the box. My touchpad worked, but didn't respond to taps as mouse clicks and my Intel wireless card was not detected. Moving to my generic desktop box (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA video card) I found Saline to be more in its element. Performance felt smoother, snappier, and all my hardware was handled properly. Saline can run with a fairly small amount of memory and would perform in a VirtualBox environment with as little as 128MB of RAM. On each of my machines, and in the virtual environment, I found Saline made heavy use of window transparency. Personally I'm not a big fan of the effect, especially if I'm working with terminal windows, but some will appreciate the eye candy. For those of us who don't want to see what's behind our windows, the Xfce settings apps make it easy to change the default appearance.
At the end of the day, Saline reminds me of a young ballerina: flexible, light on her feet and pretty. But every so often, as with the installer's shift to temporary text mode or the update tool spamming my console screen with cryptic messages for fifteen minutes, the ballerina slips and falls on her face. Yes, she gets up again and continues with an otherwise good performance, but there's a jarring break in the flow. There are other little bits of polish missing in the multimedia department. For instance, Saline would play mp3 files without any problems, but when I tried to open videos, I would get audio without visuals. This would have been a good time to pop up a dialogue box letting people know there was a solution in the user's manual, or launch a codec buddy. Aside from these few stumbles, Saline performed quite well and it does okay for being a new distribution. Specifically I found performance to be above average, the desktop was always responsive and the operating system uses RAM sparingly. I like the easy availability (and readability) of the project's manual and there was a good selection of software presented out of the box.
While the project is off to a good start, I do find myself wondering what it is trying to be. The Saline website seems a bit vague on the point of where the distro fits. It doesn't feel user-friendly enough to compete with the Ubuntu & Mandriva families. The distribution comes on a DVD, so it's not targeting old hardware, and it's based on Debian "Squeeze", which means it's not catering to the latest-and-greatest crowd. Maybe it's too soon to tell, but I don't feel Saline has a firm identity yet. The best label I can come up with for it is a simplified (from the end-user's perspective) Debian.
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When I began this review Saline 1.0 had just been released and, as I concluded my trial, I noticed Saline 1.1 was already available. I haven't tried it yet, at least not from scratch (I have applied all pending updates), but the release announcement claims fixes have been made to the Update script, which will hopefully fix my biggest complaint. Saline is a pretty good Xfce distro; it's fast and comes backed with a large collection of software on a stable Debian base.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Debian 6.0 coverage, Ubuntu 11.04 killer features, CentOS and Mageia release delays, upgrading to Mandriva "Cooker", testing GNOME 3
 It is not every day, not even every year, that a new stable Debian gets released, so last weekend was a major event on any Linux user's calendar. "Squeeze", the code name of Debian GNU/Linux 6.0, started hitting the download mirrors on Saturday and although the live (and installable) variants were not immediately available, the classic installation DVDs and Blu-Ray discs for nine processor architectures were downloadable from dozens of mirrors worldwide. In the coming days and weeks we will no doubt see a flurry of reviews of the new Debian release, but for now we'll link to an interesting article by Bruce Byfield entitled "Debian 6.0: Stability and Power to the People": "Debian releases tend to matter less to users because, with the exception of system administrators or the security-conscious, few users stay with the Stable release. Most tend to pick and choose new features from the Testing or the Unstable repositories, which, despite their names, are generally stable enough for most purposes. For such users, stable releases are just another upgrade, interesting chiefly as a snapshot of Debian policy and development over the last few years -- and that is as true of Debian 6.0 as its predecessors."
Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 is also available as installable live DVDs with GNOME, KDE, LXDE or Xfce desktops
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 Many distributions that depend on Debian GNU/Linux will be glad to see "Squeeze" released as this event means that the Debian unstable branch (also known as "Sid") will once again start receiving application updates. One of these Debian-dependent projects is the ever popular Ubuntu. As it stands now, the Ubuntu developers are already in the middle of their development cycle so any major movements in "Sid" will only be reflected in Ubuntu's October release, version 11.10. Nevertheless, there is plenty to get excited about Ubuntu's April release too. A website called HubPages summarises the "11 Killer Features That Make Ubuntu 11.04 Worth the Wait": "Ubuntu 11.04, dubbed 'Natty Narwhal', will bring some major changes to the traditional Ubuntu desktop. As the conventional desktop gets a major overhaul, the spanking new Unity interface is busy preparing itself to replace the time-honored GNOME interface. Furthermore, some well-known default applications are getting replaced by newer and more feature-laden ones. While many users have welcomed these changes with open arms, a few disapproving nods have raised doubts over their success. Nevertheless, Ubuntu 11.04, which releases on 28th April 2011, promises to bring a burst of freshness to the Linux desktop along with a slew of new users."
* * * * *
 Debian stable releases are often considered as excellent free distributions for servers, with reliable and fast security update support. So are those of CentOS, a free clone of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Unfortunately, both these free distributions suffer from the same flaw - due to the lack of a firm roadmap and the fact that they are entirely dependent on volunteer work, stable releases don't come as fast as many of us would like. The latest writer disenchanted by the slow progress in the release of CentOS 6 is Joe Brockmeier, in an article entitled "Send in the Clones: The Long Wait for CentOS 6": "Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 6 was released in November of last year, but where's CentOS 6? Clone cousin Scientific Linux 6 is in beta now, but CentOS 6 is yet to be seen. If it seems like an unusually long time to wait for a CentOS release to follow RHEL, it is. The last major release (RHEL 5.0) came out March 14, 2007. It was quickly followed by a release of CentOS on April 12. Scientific Linux 5.0 came out on May 7th -- a bit slower, but Scientific isn't just a rebuild of RHEL, it also includes extra applications and customizations." The author concludes: "You do get what you pay for. And if you pay nothing, there’s little cause to complain. CentOS 6 will be out, but when is anybody’s guess at this point."
Perhaps as a result of the above-mentioned (and similar) articles, Karanbir Singh, one of the more visible CentOS developers, has agreed to answer a few questions for oneOpenSource. As expected, the most prominent among them was about the arrival of CentOS 6. Here is Singh's response: "CentOS 6 still needs a few weeks worth of work before its ready for release, so once 5.6 is released we will refocus on 6.0." He also explains the reasons behind the delay: "It's a new system compared to CentOS 5, so it's just the time taken to audit sources and workout individual package policy that takes time. Also CentOS 6 is going to have more packages than any other previous CentOS release, making things even slower. Having said that, we have had a few more people start contributing and there has been a general favourable turn in the passive user base. These things take time to evolve and I feel the next few months should see an even larger contributor base come together." Patience seems to be an important virtue for all those who eye CentOS 6, but it should be worth the wait: "There are quite a few interesting things coming up. A newer base kernel with some enhancements in performance and management tools, a newer virtualisation layer, newer Ruby and Python stacks with lots of developer-oriented features and packages. Overall more modern and much improved desktop experience."
* * * * *
 Another distribution that keeps delaying a much-awaited release is Mageia, a project launched in September 2010 by some of the well-known former developers and contributors of Mandriva Linux. Originally the first alpha release was promised to arrive before the end of 2010, but later the date was changed to the end of January. This failed too, but according to the latest update, the inaugural alpha release should arrive on a mirror near you on February 15th. Susan Linton writes in "Where's My Mageia ISO?": "Last we heard from the Mageia project we were told to expect a test release by the end of January. Well, here it is February, where's our test release? What's going on? According to a new blog post, bootstrapping has been going on. As anyone who has ever built a Gentoo system knows, bootstrapping is building your new system so you can build your new system. In the case of Gentoo, users would download a pre-built build system, the package manager, and the Portage tree. Then one would use that to re-build each of packages needed to comprise the toolchain. Once GCC, make, and friends are built and installed anew, then one can begin building other packages such as the kernel, the X server, and so on. This is what's been happening at Mageia for the last month or so. Anne Nicolas said it's taken over 1,500 hours to bring the build system up to speed."
* * * * *
 In the meantime the revamped Mandriva Linux has been working hard on its upcoming release, version 2011. The latest news is that the old "Free" (installation DVDs) and "One" (live CDs) editions will be merged into one universal CD/DVD image. To test the concept, the developers released an early "technology preview" of Mandriva Linux 2011, a live and installable DVD image, last week. For those who already run Mandriva and wish to upgrade it to "Cooker" (Mandriva's development branch), there is a way, but it differs slightly from the traditional upgrade process due to a switch to RPM 5. Fabrice Facorat "explains the process": "With the migration of Mandriva from RPM 4.6 to RPM 5.x, upgrading from a previous Mandriva release is not straightforward. ... If you have issues and error message like 'Unable to open /usr/lib/rpm/rpmrc for reading' then it means that perl-URPM have not been updated and the RPM database conversion is not complete. Indeed part of the conversion of the RPM database is handled by perl-URPM, so if the new version is not installed, then your database ends up not being completely converted. So to do this, you will have to download the latest perl-URPM version from the cooker repository, extract its content with rpm2cpio, and then initiate the conversion." See the above article for step-by-step instructions.
* * * * *
 Finally, a reminder about another major event on the free software calendar, expected to take place this year - the release of GNOME 3. Although still in alpha, GNOME 3 is now available for testing, as a live CD, courtesy of openSUSE's SUSE Studio. Frederic Crozat has helped to build the CD/USB image: "To help as many people as possible to test the (not yet released) GNOME-Shell (and GNOME 3), I've been working on a test image, which can be easily burned on any CD or dumped on USB sticks, without the hassle of compiling the entire GNOME 3 stack with (the excellent) jhbuild. This image does not modify your system in any way. It is a persistent image - if you dump it on a USB stick, the first boot will be very long because the free space on the USB stick will be allocated to store the changes done on the running image. User name on the image is tux and password for this user and for root is linux. The initial version of this image was created with the excellent SUSE Studio appliance generator but starting with this version, I'm using Kiwi (which is also used by SUSE Studio) and OBS to generate the image directly on our build infrastructure." Interested alpha testers can download the CD/USB images from here: GNOME_3.i686-0.0.3-Build1.1.iso (414MB, SHA256), GNOME_3.x86_64-0.0.3-Build1.1.iso (418MB, SHA256)
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
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Keeping laptops cool with cpufreqd
Hot-under-the-collar asks: When I watch Flash videos my laptop gets warm. Is there a way to keep laptops and netbooks cool?
DistroWatch answers: I suppose one way would be to avoid using Flash, but that's not a particularly helpful answer. What you're probably looking for is cpufreqd, "A small daemon to adjust CPU speed and voltage (and not only) for kernels using any of the cpufreq drivers available." There are packages for cpufreqd in the Gentoo and Debian (and children of Debian) repositories. The daemon runs in the background and can adjust your CPU frequency based on your battery status, programs running and the computer's temperature. This can help you keep your computer cool and extend your battery life.
The cpufreqd program learns how to manage your CPU's frequency based on a set of rules found in the file /etc/cpufreqd.conf. This file is broken into three sections. The first section, called General, covers some basic information such as how often cpufreqd polls the system, its verbosity and its process ID file. We probably don't want to adjust these. The second section is the Profile area and this is where we tell cpufreqd what power profile we want to use and at what level we wish to set our CPU's frequency. This is the instruction part of the file where we tell cpufreq what to do. But, at this point, cpufreqd doesn't know when to apply these instructions. The "when" is handled in the third section, were we lay out our rules.
In the Rule area we tell cpufreqd what to look for on the system, such as our battery level, CPU temperature and running programs. Based on the status of each of these items cpufreqd then matches the system's current state with a profile (from the previous section). Once a profile matching our rules is found, cpufreqd makes the appropriate adjustments. Fortunately cpufreqd comes with an example configuration file, which lays out some basic rules and can be adjusted to suit our preferences. There are comments in the file explaining the rules a little, and that gives us a good starting point. There's also a manual page (man cpufreqd.conf) which briefly explains the sections and the available variables.
People running KDE will find a simple point-n-click option in their System Settings under the Advanced tab. There's an icon labelled Power Management and the Power Management config tool will help you set up basic CPU and screen settings for given power levels and situations. It's not quite as detailed as using cpufreqd, but it has a nice interface. Users of the GNOME desktop have a similar tool called the GNOME Power Manager. It will perform such power saving tasks as dimming the screen, reducing CPU frequency and switching off the hard drive. For further reading on the subject of reducing your power usage, and thus reducing your heat output, I recommend reading Reduce Linux Power Consumption by Jenifer Hopper.
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| Released Last Week |
IPFire 2.9 Core 45
Michael Tremmer has announced the release of IPFire 2.9 Core 45, an easy-to-use and secure firewall distribution: "Today we release core update 45 which is a bug-fix release and we strongly recommend to install this as soon as possible. List of changes: update of fireinfo to version 2.0.4; update of Squid to version 3.1.10 and fixed 'proxy unable to handle max download size correctly'; update of Snort to current stable 2.9.0.3 and disabled Snort decoder events; update of Memtest86+ (4.20); disabled geode_aes kernel module; fixed unattended restore of backupiso CD; improved vpn-watch; removed core-updates from pakfire cache; fcron - disable mails and fix some cron jobs; outgoing firewall rules now log with LOG prefix despite the drop rules; remove some httpd/cron error log entries. Additionally, there was a lot of clean-up work on the CGI pages of the web interface and lots of tools." Here is the full release announcement.
ArchBang Linux 2011.02
Willensky Aristide has announced the release of ArchBang Linux 2011.02, an Arch-based distribution featuring the lightweight Openbox window manager: "ArchBang 2011.02 is out in the wild! New Linux kernel 2.6.37; Thunar properly configured; look changed a bit; base-devel added; documentation updated; from now on there will be no code name, the format will simply be ArchBang-YYYY.MM. If you have Symbiosis fully updated with everything working perfectly, you don’t need to get this release. Future releases of ArchBang will pretty much have the same set of applications (unless there is a new breathtaking application available). Note: Some people experienced random kernel panic with the new 2.6.37 because they forgot to blacklist some modules that normally had to be disabled for their Broadcom wireless card." More details in the release announcement
ArchBang Linux 2011.02 - a minor bug-fix update
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Salix OS 13.1.2 "Fluxbox"
George Vlahavas has announced the release of Salix OS 13.1.2 "Fluxbox Live" edition, a lightweight, Slackware-based live CD: "Salix Live Fluxbox 13.1.2 is now ready and completes the collection of Salix live CD 13.1.2 series. As in the Salix Fluxbox standard edition, the live CD edition offers a functional, reliable and responsive desktop environment that is fully equipped with modern and powerful tools, while its minimalistic window manager is designed to stay completely out of the way. Following the one-application-per-task rationale, Salix Live Fluxbox edition includes the full OpenOffice.org office suite and the powerful image editor, GIMP. As in all Salix editions, the installation of legally encumbered multimedia codecs is only a couple of clicks away by using the 'Install multimedia codecs' tool from the Multimedia section of the Fluxbox menu." Here is the full release announcement.
VENENUX GNU/Linux 0.8.2
A new version of VENENUX GNU/Linux, a 100% "libre" desktop distribution (with KDE 3.5.10) developed in Venezuela and based on Debian GNU/Linux 5.0, has been released. 0.8.2 is a "community" edition which was built from VENENUX 0.8 RC2 (the latest "official" release) and which was put together by the members of the distribution's user community. It includes various bug fixes and other changes for improved security. It also adds a complete VENENUX User Guide, the latest Gnash browser plugin, and several scientific applications (e.g. R, updated QGIS, Octave, Maxima, Gwyddion, WaveSurfer, Stellarium and Gebabbel). To maintain the "libre" nature of the distribution some programs, including Cinelerra and Avidemux, have been removed. Read the full release announcement (in Spanish) for additional details.
VENENUX GNU/Linux 0.8.2 - a Debian-based distribution from Venezuela
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Debian GNU/Linux 6.0
Debian GNU/Linux 6.0, code name "Squeeze", has been released: "After 24 months of constant development, the Debian project is proud to present its new stable version 6.0 (code name 'Squeeze'). Debian 6.0 is a free operating system, coming for the first time in two flavours. Alongside Debian GNU/Linux, Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is introduced with this version as a 'technology preview'. Debian 6.0 includes the KDE Plasma Desktop and Applications, the GNOME, Xfce, and LXDE desktop environments as well as all kinds of server applications. It also features compatibility with the FHS v2.3 and software developed for version 3.2 of the LSB. Debian runs on computers ranging from palmtops and handheld systems to supercomputers, and on nearly everything in between. A total of nine architectures are supported by Debian GNU/Linux." Read the release announcement and release notes for details.
Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 - the default GNOME desktop
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aptosid 2011-01
Stefan Lippers-Hollmann has announced the release of aptosid 2011-01, a desktop distribution (with KDE or Xfce) based on Debian's unstable branch: "Now that kernel 2.6.37 has entered the archive and Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' is in the process of being released, we have the pleasure to announce the immediate availability of the final aptosid 2011-01 'Geras'. New features are in particular kernel 2.6.37 and numerous integration and stabilization fixes after completing the transition to aptosid. Kernel 2.6.37 doesn't only improve and stabilise hardware support for newer devices, it also improves ext4 performance (lazy inode table initialization), implements the USB Attached SCSI Protocol (UASP) for USB 3.0 storage and adds support for Intel's new Sandy Bridge graphics cards." The detailed release notes provide comprehensive information about the release.
aptosid 2011-01 - the first release featuring Linux kernel 2.6.37
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
- Mandriva Linux 2011-tp, the release announcement
- Foresight Linux 2.5.0-alpha2, the release announcement
- Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio and Mythbuntu 11.04-alpha2, the release announcement
- FreeBSD 8.2-RC3, 7.4-RC3, the release announcement
- PC-BSD 8.2-rc3, the release announcement
- Clonezilla Live 1.2.7-7
- ALT Linux 6.0-beta
- NOVA 2011-beta2
- VectorLinux 7.0-alpha4.22
- BlankOn Linux 7.0-alpha1
- Openwall GNU/*/Linux Current-20110205
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
January 2011 DistroWatch.com donation: CGSecurity (TestDisk, PhotoRec)
We are happy to announce that the recipient of the January 2011 DistroWatch.com donation is the CGSecurity project, the developer of the popular (and sometimes indispensable) data recovery utilities, such as TestDisk and PhotoRec. It receives €215.00 in cash.
It is usually a very unfortunate moment if you need to reach for either TestDisk or PhotoRec, but this is exactly where you need to look if your hard disk suffers from a disastrous crash (and you don't have a recent backup) or if your SD card containing precious photographs no longer shows signs of life. As the project's website explains, "TestDisk is powerful free data recovery software. It was primarily designed to help recover lost partitions and/or make non-booting disks bootable again when these symptoms are caused by faulty software, certain types of viruses or human error (such as accidentally deleting a partition table)." As for PhotoRec, it is "file data recovery software designed to recover lost files including video, documents and archives from hard disks, CD-ROMs, and lost pictures (thus the Photo Recovery name) from digital camera memory. PhotoRec ignores the file system and goes after the underlying data, so it will still work even if your media's file system has been severely damaged or reformatted." Both TestDisk and PhotoRec, released under the General Public Licence are extremely useful software programs that can save your data and files (and sometimes even your job)!
Launched in 2004, this monthly donations programme is a DistroWatch initiative to support free and open-source software projects and operating systems with cash contributions. Readers are welcome to nominate their favourite project for future donations. Those readers who wish to contribute towards these donations, please use our advertising page to make a payment (PayPal and credit cards are accepted). Here is the list of the projects that have received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NDISwrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and Sabayon Linux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350), Frugalware Linux ($340), cURL ($300), GSPCA ($400), FileZilla ($400), MythDora ($500), Linux Mint ($400), Parsix GNU/Linux ($300), Miro ($300), GoblinX ($250), Dillo ($150), LXDE ($250)
- 2009: Openbox ($250), Wolvix GNU/Linux ($200), smxi ($200), Python ($300), SliTaz GNU/Linux ($200), LiVES ($300), Osmo ($300), LMMS ($250), KompoZer ($360), OpenSSH ($350), Parted Magic ($350) and Krita ($285)
- 2010: Qimo 4 Kids ($250), Squid ($250), Libre Graphics Meeting ($300), Bacula ($250), FileZilla ($300), GCompris ($352), Xiph.org ($250), Clonezilla ($250), Debian Multimedia ($280), Geany ($300), Mageia ($470), gtkpod ($300)
- 2011: CGSecurity ($300)
Since the launch of the Donations Program in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$26,930 to various open-source software projects.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 14 February 2011.
Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • squeeze puppy (by technosaurus on 2011-02-07 07:40:10 GMT from United States)
The release of squeeze is great news. Can't wait for the squeeze compatible puplet release.
2 • Debian 6 etc... (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 09:19:49 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Everyone was waiting for the Debian 6, thinking that it would change the world of computing. DW says that it is 4,475MBs just to say hello. Well, I downloaded the netinstall and the core. Getting them to boot up was not a big deal. Netinstall tells me that, if I want I can add DE, laptop and simple stuff, but when I click on that it says I should at least wait 5-6 hours! there are 1126 files to be downloaded.
But, it doesn’t say, what are those files, and it is not what the Debian web site states. We should know what we download, don’t you think? Nothing doing, we have to take or leave.
I decided to leave, and update and upgrade Crunchbang Statler. It simply got in to the Debian Squeeze and after sometime, I have a fully-fledged Squeeze! Of course, I could see what Crunchbang is downloading and also it asked me whether I want this program or that. I refused the Open Office, for I have Abiword and Gnumeric, and also Lyx.
So, without having to download thousands of Debian files and not knowing what was being downloaded, the Crunchbang did the work for me. There is also Aptosid, which may have to rename as Atosqueeze, or something...Aptosid would do the trick for you!
Just wondering...should Debian put out a OS, or just make files...and let others do the developing of an operating system...
Crunchbang inspired many and there are Archbang, CTKArch, etc. I don’t know whether there would be a Gentoobang or Mandribang or Unitybang something like that in the near future...
And there is Puppy Linux, of course!
There are such lovely distros as Austrumi...
Oh, many reviewing websites love to say that these small distros are for old computers, etc. Not true, as they work absolutely lovely on newest computers!
They are NOT minimalistic, but very good distros!
Sure, awaiting for the squeeze compatible puplet release...
3 • Debian, etc... (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 09:31:44 GMT from Sri Lanka)
"Maybe it's too soon to tell, but I don't feel Saline has a firm identity yet. The best label I can come up with for it is a simplified (from the end-user's perspective) Debian."
Isn't that all end-users waiting for? A simplified OS, whatever its innards are!
Imagine soneone pulling in 30-40 DVDs of Debian! What for? We are not here to have the whole stadium, right? We just want one-seat to watch the match...
I wish Saline a lot of luck and success. hope it would learn from Aptosid and/or Crunchbang...and bring down the size to at least 700MBs, better still 400MBs...diamonds are quite small, but quite expensive, right?
4 • Aptosid (by Zenejster on 2011-02-07 10:33:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
Nice to see a new version of Aptosid out
Can't wait for XFCE 4.8 to hit SId now Squeeze 6.0 has been released into the wild
5 • @2 (by sudonym on 2011-02-07 10:36:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
".... Aptosid, which may have to rename as Atosqueeze, or something...."
Because?
6 • TestDisk (by Tom on 2011-02-07 10:55:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :) Yes, excellent to see the creators of this excellent package get the prize this week. Some claim it was $215 some say $300.
Regards from Tom :)
7 • Release early, release offten (by forlin on 2011-02-07 11:32:41 GMT from Portugal)
Reading in detail some of the Squeeze's release working papers, its sponsors, developers and how it all works, gives a perfect idea about the huge importance of Debian and its strong impact in all the Gnu/Linux arena. Their extended hardware and software coverage and the need to be absolutely reliable, though, limit the possibility to include in their stable releases some of the latest and greatest software that users are currently looking for, being a beat disappointing to find LXDE 0.5.0, XFCE 4.6.2, OpenOffice.org 3.2.1, Firefox 3.5.16, and even the Kernel 2.6.32, in this just released version, that may not be updated before around 2 years.
For this reason, it makes perfect sense that many distros have recently changed their core to became Debian based, taking the best of the present Debian release and for sure updating some packages to the actual latest stable versions. Saline is a good example of that. Congratulations to DW for placing a silently just born distro so quickly in its data base. It would be good to see other quality distros like Fuduntu and others, still in the waiting list, to have the same luck.
8 • @5 (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 11:42:17 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Oh, does it really matter how Aptosid will be named? I am writing from Aptosid 2011-01 and I like it. Downloaded the XFCE variant. Aptosid has a very nice manual, which would help users of any other Linux distro.
Mageia is taking time and making people wait, sort of negative advertisement... Debian 6 took it apears to be 24 months, which is this day of software development is quite ancient!
Anyway, whatever that was in the Debian repos had been used by other developers, so Debian should not worry so much about releasing a distro, as they say a universal distro, but keep on making software files. So, actually, Debian 6 is already old by the time it was released. You can't hold so many apples in two hands, can you? Maybe that is the problem of Debian...
Austrumi, for example, may not have so many to develop it, but does the job without say, 30,000 files, don't you think? Archbang has only one developer, but does the job too! Instead of wasting time to download the Debian netinstall, core and the CD from Linux tracker, I should have just updated and upgraded Crunchbang Statler, which I finally did.
Do I find some special speed boost or my laptop become larger? No!
Maybe lot of people are wasting time just writing code, rather than trimming the fat...
Maybe someone would take the Linux kernel and make another one...It is just going forward or backward, no one really knows...If the Linux kernel is so good, why it had to be upgraded all the time?
I downloaded the new "stable" Linux kernel, which took me more than an hour and has more than 300MBs..why so large? Of course, I find that most of the tarball is full of docs, etc...Yes, I hope someone would find a way to trim the fat of this kernel and also someone makes an operating system, which can pull in any open source software, whether they are .deb, .rpm or even .pet!
Let's see what Saline OS would give...
9 • DWW & @2 (by win2linconvert on 2011-02-07 11:47:26 GMT from United States)
Enjoyed. Thanks and keep up the good work.
@2 ".... Aptosid, which may have to rename as Atosqueeze, or something...."
I'm curious why?
10 • debian grub (by mork on 2011-02-07 11:55:56 GMT from Italy)
Installed deb 6.0
win xp in a ntfs partition non recognised!
3 computers,same issue...
I am the only one?
11 • Aptosid (by Ajeet on 2011-02-07 11:57:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm still quite surprised at how this excellent distribution doesn't have a bigger following.
It has the latest software (when not affected by the Debian "freeze"), great hardware support and a fantastic community for support.
12 • TestDisk (by pera on 2011-02-07 12:10:17 GMT from Serbia)
The best application for recovering. Right decision for donation.
13 • Debian release (by SlaxFan on 2011-02-07 12:11:28 GMT from United States)
I have used the netinstall version of Debian stable for quite awhile and have been looking forward to the new release. I'll still try it but I have noticed that Live CDs with the 2.6.37 kernel have suddenly started supporting my laptop built in card reader. The old version of Debian didn't work with my wireless settings so hardware support will still be key.
14 • stable? (by Gustavo on 2011-02-07 12:17:37 GMT from Brazil)
I usualy find that newer versions of linux programs are more stable and less buggy than legacy ones. So I don´t see the point of using Debian stable.
15 • cpufreq (by ssam on 2011-02-07 12:20:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
lowering you CPU speed can also increase power consumption. At full speed the CPU can get its work done quicker, and drop into a very low power sleep state. at a low speed, it will need to spend more time running. it will depend a lot on what CPU you have
i'd recommend using something like flashblock so that you only play the flash files that you want to play. or using totem/miro to watch youtube.
16 • @9 Aptosid (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 12:23:37 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Download Aptosid and use it for a while and you's know that you don't need any Debian Squeeze...I have the earlier version to and Aptosid is an excellent OS!
I had some eralier versions of Debian too, and I wasted time in downloading the new Debian netinstall, core and the CD. Will not do that anymore. Whether it is Debbie and Ian, doesn't matter, for there are other guys silently doing quite good work, producing other excellent OSs - sometimes just one guy...
17 • @ 14 - Gustavo: stable? (by forlin on 2011-02-07 12:33:49 GMT from Portugal)
Gustavo: alguns são, mas não todos. O KDE 4, só agora começa a ter a estabilidade que seria desejável quando foi lançado, há dois anos.
I mean, some newer versions of Linux are not less buggy than legacy ones, being KDE 4 a good example.
18 • Aptosid (by Bert on 2011-02-07 12:37:08 GMT from Netherlands)
All those recommending aptosid, I do wonder if they will have the same opinion once the freeze is off and all those experimental packages hit sid?
I like aptosid but it is not for the faint hearted. I really wouldn't recommend it as a newb distro on production machines.
19 • @ 18 (by Ajeet on 2011-02-07 12:49:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
Bert,
I use aptosid on my main desktop and have never had an issue with "dist-upgrade" once the Debian "freeze" has ended.
There are always news/forum updates warning users in advance of upgrading and when it is safe to do so.
While I share your opinion that it can be quite daunting for new users, it shouldn't put anyone off from using it.
20 • Debian squeeze (by Doran on 2011-02-07 13:09:38 GMT from Greece)
Chdslv, would please stop whining. You know it's not just about you wanting the newest applications. As a system and network administrator Debian 6.0 is the best that I can have for my job, I don't care if an OS has the latest software, I care about stability,security and robustness. And don't forget that Debian support 12 architectures as good as the default one. So you want the latest bling go on and install arch or aptosid(which wouldn't exist without Debian), it's about the choice, you have the choice to install whatever you want. But don't expect a wide used distribution(upstream for more than 120 distro) to change their philosophy because you want the latest buggy bling bling.
take care
21 • Aptosid (by sergei on 2011-02-07 13:15:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
Aptosid: waste of space. No autoDHCP, no installed Flash, can't even listen to Radio1 on the iPlayer. Things have moved on - give up guys and let the pro's do the job.
Austrumi: agreed, truly beautiful and easy to use, but in recent releases, lang=en & kb=gb don't work. Shame because it's otherwise competent and desirable.
Puppy: everything works outa da box fits on an 8cm CD. Nothing touches it.
Something for the big box in the corner: Mint, pure Debian or Fedora, in that order. The other major have big question marks hanging over them.
22 • Aptosid, Linux Kernel (by mythus on 2011-02-07 13:21:27 GMT from United States)
Greetings,
Chdslv, Aptosid is based on the sid branch of Debian, ie, the Unstable branch. It is a rolling release that always stays current with the Sid branch. SInce the Sid branch never has a name change (despite the various code names of Debian such as Lenny, Squeeze, etc), Aptosid should not have to worry about a name change just becuae Squeeze was released.
You may not like the slow releases of Debian, but there are many servers and critical systems that depend upon such hard coded stability and the not needing about updating more than once every two years or so. RHEL has an even slower release schedule, after all, for those very people.
Also the Linux Kernel must update often inorder to keep ahead of security issues and keep current with new hardware and firmware. If the Linux Kernel never updated, you would likely not be able to use your fancy new graphics card to its full potential, for example. Sure such a thing may be more related to your video driver, but without an up to date linux kernel, you would find it much more difficult to accomodate the new video driver.
Besides, I don't think anyone can say that the Linux kernel is the best kernel that can be made. It is simply the best we have now that works with the largest amount of hardware. There are other great kernels out there, that while they are slimmer or have some better specs to them in certain areas, simply do not have the hardware support that the linux kernel has.
23 • Debian Live CD size (by AnklefaceWroughtlandmire on 2011-02-07 13:29:59 GMT from Ecuador)
Hmm, unfortunately there are no longer any CD-sized live images with a desktop environment. The smallest (LXDE+XFCE) is 750+ MB.
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/?C=S;O=D
24 • @ Sergei (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 13:30:46 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Zdrawstwuj Sergei!
Austrumi; the latest 2.2.1 - 2.2.5 lang_en works and ther eis no lang_gb.
Puppy; everything works or can be made to work.
LMDE; lot of bugs
Sabayon KDE; has extra 1/4 face,
Aptosid; of course, no flash, and Debian too has no flash
Just because the box in the corner is too big doesn't mean it has to have a pretty fat guy in it. I am using Puppy 5.2 in i3...why not? Do we really have to have jumping jacks of KDE 4+?
Diamonds (brillianty) are quite small, but quite expensive, while glass beads are large and very cheap!
25 • Greetings, Mythus! (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 13:47:31 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Greetings, Mythus!
I know about sid of Aptosid. I just wrrote about it can be Aptosqueeze, and I suppose people appear to not undrstand the writing between the lines these days.
For me Debian is a collection of software files, of course, open source, but it doesn't have to be an OS. The OS part can be done by other developers.
If some servers are working on Debian, and those servers are from commercial companies, it is not my concern. These companies are just like us, who use the 'free as free beer' operating systems, but won't share their profits with the Open Source developers. That's why Open Source is lacking the drive!
You know, what troubles me is the biased "reviews" of Linux distros by some "reviewers". Some such reviewers simply go on at the developers, until they get distressed and stop. That way, we all lose, don't you think?
We have oohs, aahs awaiting a distro from a big company/organization, but NOT from a single guy(s)...why?
26 • Aptosid, Debian (by Ron on 2011-02-07 13:59:46 GMT from United States)
I had a friend, who died a few yeras ago, tell me her favorite Football (American) was Greenbay. I asked her why. She said she liked the uniforms... Well I had a good laugh at that but... The main thing that turns me off from Aptosid is the name. It really annoys me for some reason, (how stupid is that, lol)
I am one of those people that loves Debian. Too many reasons why to list them here. However on the flip side of that I love Arch just as much as Debian. Depends on my needs, my mood, etc.
Of course, names aside ;-), I don't hate any Linux distro at all. I just prefer some over others and still see all of them as great in their own way, or having the potential of being great. I just love Linux in all of its forms!
27 • Old Grannies (by mandog on 2011-02-07 14:03:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Come on folks you sound like old grannies just winge winge
Constructive criticism is one but this is pathetic
Lighten up Debian does its own thing as does aptosid, Ubuntu, as does puppy, as does another 100+ Debian inspired offshoots they are all part of the Deb culture without Debian they would be non existent then you would not be criticising the most succesful Linux distro of all time yes Debian, not Ubuntu, Debian without it there would be no Ubuntu, probably no Linux as redhat, would of sold the lot to MS.
So praise Debian not slag it off
Do I use it certainly I use the Parsix mix, Arch in my mind is the best Linux operating system,and Slackware the most stable Linux system,
28 • @Chdslv (by Luis Garcia on 2011-02-07 14:12:58 GMT from Colombia)
>> "Diamonds (brillianty) are quite small, but quite expensive, while glass beads are large and very cheap!"
That's true... as long as you need a diamond.
You have been trolling about Debian and praising others..
Guess what? Without Debian there is no Aptosid, or Crunchbang for that matter. You seem to reduce Debian to its stable branch and that's a huge mistake.
Debian Stable is only a "picture" carefully taken to be sure the 30.000 people in it are smiling and looking at the camera. Aptosid is the same thing, it just desn't care if the picture is slightly out of focus or if that other child was crying.
Of course, is perfectly ok that Stable doesn't fit YOUR needs, but in that case it is YOUR fault for not reading the differences between Debian's branches and presentations, and then complaining that a netinstall CD were trying to download files from a repository.
29 • great debian but just one miss (by manmath sahu on 2011-02-07 14:22:06 GMT from India)
now i'm writing this comment from Squeeze. I like it as it's the most bug-free distro. In stability I bank more on debian than rhel. Morever, major releases are more frequent in debian than in rhel and its clones (compare the gap of rhel 5 and 6 with debian 5 and 6). But there is just one complain debian does not selectively punch goodies from later kernels.
For example, though rhel 6 and debian 6 has comparatively same kernel and userland apps, rhel will punch goodies from newer kernel in its point releases, and debian will remain little conservative in this regards.
However, I love debian and plan to recompile 2.6.38 when the source reaches sid mirrors.
30 • At Garcia -28 (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 14:35:38 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Hey, pal, it is NOT me, we are talking about, or writing about, it is about operating systems and especially Linux operating systems.
What I say is that we have oohs, aahs, when some bigtime developer(s), companies come into the scene, but NOT the sinple single guy somewhere in the world, losing his(her) sleep over that work. He/she of course is using the Open Source - free as free beer software to put together his(her) distro/OS..., but when in comes to "review", there are so much criticism, so that guy might not go forward with it.
Take for example Mageia, don't you think the websites talk a lot about it giving this "unknown yet" distro a massive advertisement?
Didn't Debian 6 got the same advertisement? Would Archbang or CTKArch get that amount of adertisement?
I am sure so many good developers, just drop their work, because they might or got bad criticism. Of course, there are some, who won't drop the work, like the guy, who develops JULinux!
31 • Deb etal (by nobody on 2011-02-07 14:41:27 GMT from Canada)
Well I won't be using Debian - no matter what it contains
(nothing wrong, just not favourite)
As for size, there are many choices now to fit all wants, needs
Wonder if there would be any interst in Dww reviewing more like
Systemrescue
( I stlll have R.I.P., on a FLOPPY)
So IMO, size is only relative to needs
32 • RE 25 (by mythus on 2011-02-07 14:56:05 GMT from United States)
Greetings,
While it is true that it read to me that you misunderstood aptosid and what it was built on, I still stand that aptosid should not become aptosqueeze. That in itself would be a whole speerate distro, and wouldn't be a rolling release, bleeding edge distro that aptosid is. Now I wouldn't complain terribly about having a seperate aptosqueeze distro out there, despite there being plenty of squeeze-based distros out there.
I disagree about Debian being just a collection of files, but you stated that as your oppinion, and not fact, so you obviously understand that not everyone agrees with it. Deb is the pakage type, and apt-get is the package manager that holds all of the /debs you need for making your own debian-based distro yes, but Debian the distro itself is, IMO, more than just the collection of files and installer. It is also the community behind it that make is a great distro. I may be an arch user, but I have a great amount of respect for Debian, and have and always will view it as one of the great true distros, which IMO, there are very few true distros. The majority are derived or spins. And yes, there are some great distros out there that fit in the later category.
Not all servers are from or managed by commercial companies. Do not forget about those who run home servers or media servers at their own home. Also do not forget those who run their own server from home for their website needs. And though their quality may be questionable, there are many free hosts out there as well. 90% (last I looked anyways) of the the internet is hosted on linux based servers, many of them being centos, rhel, or debian, simply because when it comes to uptime and mission critical, stability always wins over latest-and-greatest.
BTW- whatever their motivation is, there are companies out there that use Linux, and give back to linux. Some are now gone saddly (Sun), but others remain, such as HP, AMD, Intel, Cisco... Sure most who do so is so that their stuff will work with linux for their needs, but at least they give it back to the community. (I may and most likely am missing the names of many companies that do this, please feel free to use google to find the rest)
The wonderful thing about linux is that there is typically something out there for everyone, and if you don't find what you like, you can make it. Most people go for the larger distro because it is what they need, or because it has a larger popularity base, but larger isn't always better for everyone. It is just that the larger distros have more people there to give the oohs and aahs lol.
33 • CGSecurity (by cereal_killa on 2011-02-07 15:00:20 GMT from United States)
Great choice on the monthly winner. Testdisk and Photorec are both tools that everyone should keep on hand. They have saved my bacon on more than a few occassions.
34 • Between the lines? (by sudonym on 2011-02-07 15:05:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Chdslv wrote:
(8) "Oh, does it really matter how Aptosid will be named?"
Well, you introduced the matter. And yes, it does matter, if you are suggesting a name change might be needed. Some visitors here may know little about Linux or sidux, so I think you should bear that in mind when sharing your thoughts.
(25) "I know about sid of Aptosid. I just wrrote about it can be Aptosqueeze, and I suppose people appear to not understand the writing between the lines these days."
Ermmmm.....ok, if you say so.
-----------------------------
BTW, I used sidux for quite a while (followed it from Kanotix, till just recently) and I thought it was a very good distro.
@27
Right on. I have used a lot of distros. I don't think I have actually disliked any of them, just that I like/d certain distros _more_.
35 • Re my previous (34) (by Sudonym on 2011-02-07 15:10:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Where I said:
"Some visitors here may know little about Linux or sidux"
Very sorry - I should have said Linux or aptosid.
Sorry.
36 • Cpu cooling (by trinity on 2011-02-07 15:10:12 GMT from Canada)
Not having used any , doen't all depend on whatever sensors the system might have ?
37 • ubuntu natty (by walter j on 2011-02-07 15:21:25 GMT from Canada)
Has anyone tried to install gnome 2.32 on natty? Unity may be good for a tablet, but not on my desktop. The devs keep saying you can install gnome on natty, but i haven't seen any evidence of it. Mint devs say they will use gnome 3.32 i think, but seem to have some concerns about it. I don't know enough about their concerns to know if it's a major problem.
38 • debian fan (by stasik on 2011-02-07 15:25:01 GMT from Ireland)
i love debian all the way. u want stability and security, go with stable version. u want updated apps, go with testing. if u want blink blink, u can always install ur favourite apps in debian, at leas u know what is installed, in comparrison with distros which give u eye candy out of the box, for double ram...
in the end, its all about choices, but the truth is that debian is on the right track and doing the right thing. go on squeeze!!!
39 • Debian 6 (by fernbap on 2011-02-07 15:48:36 GMT from Portugal)
Tried it as soon as it came out.
Got the AMD64 DVD 1, burned it, installed it. Tried the graphics installer. It works well, but is a bit counter-intuitive.
For those complaining about the size of the DVD, be aware that the DVD is a local repository of all you will ever need to install, containing all localization files and all typical apps needed for several roles, like server, desktop, laptop, etc.
The DVD also contains the most popular applications. That means you will be able to do an install for any purpose using the DVD alone, and not needing to have an internet connection.
The DVD also contained all the few applications that i added after install, like pidgin (not included by default??), VLC, geany, etc. Inkscape is included by default. Good.
Wine is at version 1.0?! A quick visit to winehq, the wine repository added, and i got the decent 1.1.42.
No hickups, everything working as it should, at least so far
Except for wine, i didn't have to access any online repository, as synaptic found all i needed in the DVD. Makes me feel confident if i ever need to install it into a computer without internet.
40 • Deb6 (by capri.cornus on 2011-02-07 16:09:31 GMT from Belgium)
Downloaded the 32-bit version. Burned it at 2x, which is slow but sure. Installed the basic version with GUI. Then the misery started. In terminal su apt-get and su add-apt-repository where not recognized. Neither the dual screen. Neither the NAS and/or the NAS-attached printer. Then I tried to restart and see, GRUB had forgotten Win (mork, @#10, I second you).
When I do the same thing with Mint9 or Mint10, I don't run into basic problems like this. I reported immediately, but all I got yesterday was being laughed at. It be so. But this version is a disappointment.
41 • ArchBang (by OldTimer on 2011-02-07 16:14:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
ArchBang is a great distro, neat, quick and well designed.
The new release is OK, but the art work is dark and off putting to newbies.
Two areas where they should do work on are, Wireless setup (a general problem with Arch Linux too) and lighter, more appealing artwork.
But it is early days and bound to improve.
42 • Debian 6.0.0 default grub configuration on dual-boot systems? (by Scott Dowdle on 2011-02-07 16:16:42 GMT from United States)
@10 - Regarding your comment about Debian 6.0.0 not putting in a boot option for your Windows XP OS in a dual-boot configuration... I ran into that too... and I assume that is not a bug but a feature. To fix it, I installed some grub configuration tool... named Startup-something... sorry but I forget... and I'm not at that computer at the moment. Anyway, just use your favorite repo tool (I used Software Center) and search for grub and it should be listed in the output. That will let you easily add a stanza for the additional OS and set the desired default and timeout easily. I must say that I'm not too familiar with grub2's configuration and it is quite daunting. I'm glad to see a config assist app for it.
43 • @Chdslv - 30 (by Luis Garcia on 2011-02-07 16:18:01 GMT from Colombia)
I get it, so the best way to promote smaller distros is trolling about bigger distros...
You write about "the sinple single guy somewhere in the world, losing his(her) sleep over that work". Guess what: Debian devs are not different, they're just common people offering its work for free, and not a bit less valuable than your average one man distro guy.
Smaller distros receive criticism because usually it is deserved, and praise just for the same reason. From a review blog or site I don't expect to read "advertising" for every small distro; I just want a honest opinion about good and bad things. It's not different when the review is about Debian Stable, and most reviewers get it right: you have a huge, working and stable product. If you want cutting edge features, go somewhere else (including of course, other branches of Debian).
44 • Debian 6, grub (by fernbap on 2011-02-07 16:31:23 GMT from Portugal)
Funny, i have windows XP as one of my 5 installs, and it was recognized from the start. Are your XP installs on primary or logical partitions?
Btw, just installed fglxr and compiz, just for kicks. Both are working fine, and both came from the DVD as well, no need to access any onlline repository.
45 • @ Mythus (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 17:02:07 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Greetings, Mythus!
Of course, why should Aptosid become Aptosqueeze. I was just having little pun. Aptosid would go a long way.
Nice reading your comments.
I tried to get Arch on my machines, but failed. After installing X an WM/DE etc, I only got just two lines "--", nothing else. Anyway, the Crunchbang people always say something good about Arch, and somehow I met Archbang, but the 1st time, it didn't show any DE, but Will writes lovingly about CTKArch, which without fail booted up and I got it instaled too. I thanked CTKArch maker. Then when Will came out with his Symbiosis, I downloaded it and it booted up nicely and I have installed it in one of my machines. They are really nice!
One day, maybe I'll be lucky with Arch...But, surely I won't have to wait 3-5 hours until 1126 files download, and not knowing what they are as in Debian 6 netinstall!
I have practically every Linux distro that came up for last few years, some even DW doesn't have, and also some PC-BSD, Opensolaris, OpenIndiana, and even Kolibri...more than 300, I believe. I have looked into all, which booted up and with alot of patience. Most times, I write to the developer and thank him/her on that. Even though I write from Sri Lanka, I am an European, and also know how the computer shops look like in Canada, especiallly in B.C.
The 1st computer I owned was a Sinclair, and even before I had to use massive computers that took the whole floor at the university.
Take care!
Ch
46 • Luis Garcia @ 43 (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 17:14:00 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Well, Luis I don't want Debian 6 anymore!
I tried, but I am NOT going to wait 4-5 hours for the download of 1126 files, which i don't know what they are. So, I just asked my Crunchbang to update and upgrade. And here I am, with whatever that's good from Debian repository coming to me through Crunchbang without a problem. while it did its work, I did some other work with my comp.
Btw, if you can't understand typical English, not the american type, you must learn to read between lines...and if you don't have the patience to read to the end without getting agitated, there is no need to comment on the person, but you have the absolute right to argue/discuss/criticize the contents.
A healthy discussion is good, and that's why we have free as free beer distros to use!
Take care!
47 • Saline OS 1.1 (by Chris on 2011-02-07 17:19:15 GMT from United States)
I've been using Saline since the 1.0 release and I find it to be a good desktop OS. I don't have a laptop, so I can't make a comparison about that.T
o clarify something, it's not trying to be anything, the developer considers it to simply be a version of Debian stable with the XFCE desktop.
The 1.1 update fixes a lot of bugs, including the error message with the update script and some other issues. So, anybody who downloads the .iso will get Saline 1.1 and will experience less bugs than the reviewer did.
48 • Grub 2 (by Anonymous on 2011-02-07 17:32:17 GMT from United States)
Grub 2 wasn't designed with dual booting in mind. You are probably better off using Microsoft's bootloader to boot Debian, than grub2.
49 • @43, @Chdslv (by Patrick on 2011-02-07 17:40:15 GMT from United States)
I wholeheartedly agree with that comment. My personal opinion is that if someone wants to contribute to the open source ecosystem in a meaningful way, it would be more useful if they became "a little guy packaging an unknown piece of open source software for Debian", than if they decided to be "a little guy toiling to release yet another change-the-default-package-set-and-wallpaper remix distro".
Now I'm not saying that there is something wrong with releasing a new distro--who would I be to criticize someone's hard work. Some of these distros turn out quite nice too. But I have just as much--if not more--respect for the little guy who does packaging for Debian and does it in the quiet anonymity of a big volunteer project like Debian, instead of trying to make a name for himself.
@Chdslv
It is funny that you keep talking about the negative effect of criticism on "the little guy" doing a one man distro, but on the other hand, most of your comments consist of nothing but criticism on other volunteer projects. Why?
There are also reasons that Debian does what they do, and the Linux kernel source is huge, and many of the other things you keep whining about, but it seems you can't be bothered to accept that there might be reasons even if you don't understand them. Why?
50 • Debian Testing? (by Anonymous on 2011-02-07 17:47:43 GMT from United States)
Why would anyone use Debian testing as a desktop when it doesn't receive reliable security updates?
51 • @46 (by fernbap on 2011-02-07 18:14:43 GMT from Portugal)
It took me 2 hours to get the debian dvd on torrent. Those 1126 files are in the DVD, so if you have a slow connection don't use a basic install disk.
I had a complete install including all server applications and a gnome desktop up and running in about 20 minutes, using the DVD.
52 • Re Deb testing - post 50 (by trinity on 2011-02-07 18:16:51 GMT from Canada)
Is there such a thing as "reliable" security updates ?
Seems like - it's always a game of catchup
But when Deb or others, wait to release, users complain they are out-of date
I would guess, testing apps are released, just for that reason - find, report
good/bad, share experiences
Developers also cannot have at their disposal, all possible hardware the products may be used on
( - 'tho the ordinary user is ill-equipped to find security flaws)
AFAIK , The idea of release soon & often (more eyes more testers)
Esp if the testers file bug reports
53 • @ Patrick (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 18:17:21 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Patrick, "little guys" don't make great distros, ONLY "great guys" make them, and I am all for the little-great guys around the world, not only in the US...These little guys as you say do great jobs, like Corenomical, Willensky, etc.
I am quite happy with them, are you?
What happens, when & if these big-guy companies die away? Companies need profit to live, but these "little guys" don't, because they work somewhere and lose sleep doing their little great bit!
Sabayon is done by a 'little-guy" in Italy, and what a nice OS!
Austumi is done by a little guy in a small town in small country. Lovely OS!
There are lot of such little-guys around the world.
Come on! Give them due credit!
54 • Fernbap (by Chdslv on 2011-02-07 18:20:52 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I have very good connection, and I can download many at a time. So, don't worry about that and that I am writing from a small island.
There are 3 times more than 1126 files on the DVD...One needs 1126 files only for DE, laptop and simple tasks.
Take care!
55 • Bootable Live Linux USB key file systems (by James on 2011-02-07 18:52:41 GMT from United States)
Why do bootable Live Linux USB keys still need to be formated in FAT32?
Are there any plans to upgrade this to take advantage of more modern file systems? (such as NTFS)
56 • grub2 setup in Debian 6.0.0 for dual-boot (by Scott Dowdle on 2011-02-07 18:56:07 GMT from United States)
@44 - I have to admit that I'm new to the Debian installer... and it could have been me. I picked the graphical installer option and it did detect that Windows XP was there on /dev/sda1 but it did not make a grub entry for it. Maybe I overlooked something and it did exactly what I asked it to do. For the most part, I did go with the defaults and I would not think that the defaults would ignore the other OS. I used debian-6.0.0-i386-CD-1.iso disc to install from if that makes any difference. I would have used a LiveCD but they haven't been released yet. Even with that, when it came to package selection the only thing I added was "ssh server" and with that, and the fact that I had configured internet based repos, it ended up downloading over 400 packages which I thought was very odd and that took quite a while even on my broadband connection... but hey, it was release day, right? :)
57 • CentOS (by Nick on 2011-02-07 18:59:53 GMT from United States)
For those tired of waiting for CentOS 6 to come out... Come on over to the Debian based distro world. We welcome you.
58 • Ubuntu classic desktop, Grub 2 not designed for dual boot? (by Eddie on 2011-02-07 19:07:13 GMT from United States)
@48, Grub2 has always picked up different distros and operating systems for me and I haven't had any problems using it. But that is just my experience. If it doesn't work properly there is a good chance it is a Debian bug and not a feature as #42 stated. I don't think that you would really need Grub if you didn't boot any other systems. Well that's really not the case but Grub has always worked well in multi boot configurations for the seven years I've been using Linux.
@37, Ubuntu 11.04 when released will also have a option to install the classic Gnome desktop. It is still in alpha stage now so I really wouldn't be doing anything with it (except testing and reporting bugs) until the final release.
59 • RE #10 Debian (by Anonymous on 2011-02-07 19:21:37 GMT from United States)
I just hope before it takes my internet connection for a long period on the web install, it asks for a IP address before trying every file before it shows a error that it can't connect to the mirror. I must have attempted 3 mirror before I figured out that it had the wrong DNS.
I also hope it fixes my dual boot craziness on my machine. I have a Grub and Grub 2 switcher now after I installed Fedora 14 on another partition (Grub2) with my Debian 5.0 (Grub) install. At one point I had to use Grub4Dos to get back into Debian. Strangely both OS's detected Freedos/Gem on a FAT32 Wine partition.
60 • Ubuntu (by meanpt on 2011-02-07 19:29:06 GMT from Portugal)
Ubuntu 11.04 alfa2: bugy, crashier but boots and runs fast. I was offered a "classical desktop without effects" which to me completely mimics a gnome. As such I don't understand the need to install a gnome desktop. All in all the performance is very promising.
61 • Debian Squeeze and stuff... (by davemc on 2011-02-07 19:55:34 GMT from United States)
I switched to Squeeze (KDE version) three days ago from Kubuntu 10.04 (used that since release) and I must say I am VERY impressed! What a great release! A true credit to the FOSS world and the 900+ developers that put their heart and soul into it. Just goes to show what a truly free, non profit organization with all volunteer contributors can accomplish.
I was a bit put off at first by having to go back to KDE 4.4.5 from Kubuntu's 4.5.3 (using PPA) but Debian's somewhat tailored version has been amazingly stable and the desktop is extremely well integrated and smooth. I still get the occasional crash popup for some reason even though nothing has crashed to date. What really impressed me was the fine grained akonadi/strigi integration and how well that worked ootb. No doubt that there is a huge difference in quality between Ubuntu and Debian packaging and this proved it for me as far as the KDE desktop goes. Anyway, the whole plasma and widget layer works flawless, and Phonon (dont get me started about the Phonon/Pulse integration in Kubuntu - complete crap!) in Debian again, absolutely flawless. Heck, they even had the phonon-backend-vlc package in stable repo's, which I had a seriously hard time getting with Kubuntu.
Futzing around with Debian this weekend has been a real treat for me. There is so much going on under the hood with that distro...
*For example, Squeeze comes with ALSA1.0.21 default, but it also has ALSA1.0.23 packaged with it so that you can very easily switch to that if the older version does not work for you, which I did.
* It uses Mythtv version 0.24, which is bleeding edge so much so that I had to upgrade my Ubuntu workstation variants so that all could run smoothly together - imagine that!.. Squeeze more bleeding edge than Ubuntu! Oh, the irony kills me!
*Squeeze defaults to grub2 (on my install anyway it did this by default) and automagically picked up all my custom installs on the many partitions, also including WinXP and Win7 without any trouble whatsoever. It does not come with Plymouth, but is preconfigured for it. Boot times are lightning fast for me and all I did was install Plymouth, point the config to "spacefun", reloaded initramfs and rebooted, and enjoyed the cool animated show with the little space ship flying around.
I approached Debian with a strong dose of caution thinking it was a Distro strictly for the Advanced user, which I am not, and came away with the strong impression that this is a Distro that is very much beginner level friendly. Not like Ubuntu "hold your hand until something breaks and then your on your own" kinda friendly, but more, "We hand you the install and desktop and from there its up to you" kinda friendly. They preconfigure very little, but point you in the right direction to get what you need for yourself and provide some very cool tailored customization scripts.
For the bleeding edge types, just go with Squeeze and use backports for the apps you need to be at screaming edge versions. This way you will still have the rock stable OS underpinnings AND your bleeding edge apps. Its the best way to go IMO for living on the edge if thats what you like to do, rather than upgrade to Sid or Wheezy.
62 • SalineOS (by Anthony Nordquist on 2011-02-07 21:16:24 GMT from United States)
The update script for SalineOS has been updated since 1.0 as that script hanging is most definitely a bug. This only occurs when updating Remastersys as his repository is not signed (Tony Brijeski is a trusted source). A quick copy and paste of one line is available on the Saline forums under announcements, that will update the update scripts.
You are not the only one who did not like everything automated in the update script. So I have re-written the update scripts to issue the usual aptitude prompts and echo "Done" instead of closing.
SalineOS will update from the official Debian backports repository. This gives it a somewhat unique approach to providing stability and staying up to date. Without the stability issues of being based on unstable or testing. For the 1.2 image builds I have a preliminary to do list of pulling a newer Chromium version and Xfce 4.8 from backports. All packages from backports will go through a testing period in SalineOS testing to ensure stability and compatibility for stable users. Changing the upgrade script command to gksu AutoUpdateTesting will allow you to help test packages. All packages in SalineOS testing will have gone through Debian Sid, be in Debian testing and made it through backports proposed.
Tony Brijeski has updated his Remastersys installer to include a Zenity window for setting the time zone (So the terminal screen is not longer present). The updated installer is on the 1.1 image builds. I will continue to work with him to fix any issues people have with the installer. An easier man to get patches to there is not.
63 • @Chdslv (by Bronco on 2011-02-07 22:03:53 GMT from Germany)
This is vexing.
First, Debian is a volunteer project, not a company.
Second, the Debian project is home of hundreds of volunteers. People working on the miniscule details that are required to make a distribution work.
Third, Debian is the giant on whose shoulders the off-shot distributions, including Ubuntu and Mint, stand. Many smaller off-shots deserve praise for innovative ideas, but let's be honest: they can focus on innovation because the foundation is laid and solid.
Fourth, Debian and the DFSG firmly belong in the "free as in free speech" camp, not the gratis camp.
Sheesh, and I'm not even using Debian!
64 • Debian really good but (by GeekoLinux on 2011-02-07 22:19:10 GMT from Canada)
I met with the Debian version 4. Then 5 and now 6. Install a 4 core AMD ATI configuration. I download the AMD64 CD which is enough to make a test. As I suspected, my asus pci card not recognized, both my wireless card either. Do not manage my two screens. Grub no problem but my Unix and BSD are not there.
IT is true that Debian stable is fast. But nothing very exciting! As usual I did the test for a few hours but then I replace it with one that does everything right the first time. Much work to benefit others (the distro based on Debian). Who harvest them finally honors. I'll make a suggestion to the Debian team. Because they have multiple versions. Why not make a * top * out of the box we could name it *. * QuickyDebian
I understand the philosophy that the user is free to do whatever he wants with his Debian once installed. But ultimately, he spent hours installing the codec, the pilots to make a system usable in everyday life.
I always tested but never used Debian daily. I see no advantage.
For me, I prefer Sabayon, PCLinuxOS, Pardus, Slackware, SimpleMepis, LinuxMint, Frugalware
In conclusion, congratulations to the Debian team for this strong version.
65 • TestDisc Donation. (by OssT on 2011-02-07 23:08:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Really happy that testdisk got a donation from distrowatch. A few years ago our large 4TB array in work became unmountable and testdisk really helped us recover data.
66 • GNOME 3 (by White Russian Dude on 2011-02-07 23:18:43 GMT from Lithuania)
GNOME 3 is on par with Unity and the first release of KDE 4 in terms of utter awfulness.
67 • kfreebsd-anyone install successfully? (by rs on 2011-02-08 00:19:47 GMT from United States)
I installed Debian 6 kfreebsd, had the same grub problems ("update-grub" command did nothing).
After this fail I aptitude'd gnome-panel and gdm3. Would not load after login, just freeze...
68 • Re64: (by Anonymous on 2011-02-08 02:18:19 GMT from United States)
"he spent hours installing the codec"
I am curious, what codec?
I use Debian stable, currently Lenny and I have never added any codec's besides the ones available from the Debian repsitories (like ffmpeg).
So far the only media I have had trouble with was YouTube's newer flv's which seem to need a u'soft codec, which I have no desire to install, especially since they now offer mp4's which play out of the box on Debian.
Unless you mean Real Media files, which I rarely come across these days.
Or maybe the extra formats in Debian's repositories should have already been installed without asking, automatically; this does not take hours, unless you don't know what to install. I myself have probably spent hours just looking through the aptitude listings over the years that I have used Debian, and I still find many packages that I have missed before.
With 30K+ packages, I myself do not have enough time to check all of the list, let alone install and try them as well. Last I checked Squeeze has about 52 cd's in all. That's a lot of software. I probably use less than a hundred packages myself.
Thanks in advance.
69 • @68 (by Anonymous on 2011-02-08 02:22:55 GMT from United States)
1159
I just checked my package list and counted 1159 packages.
I guess many came along as dependencies for the packages I actually use.
Still 1159 is a lot more than 100.
70 • Debian versions (by RollMeAway on 2011-02-08 05:44:42 GMT from United States)
One thing worth noting is AT THIS MOMENT, stable, testing and unstable
all have the same package versions.
This is the IDEAL time for anyone to switch from one version to another.
If you are running "lenny" you now have "oldstable"
Anyone interested is switching should do so immediately,
before the flood begins for new packages in testing and unstable.
71 • @70, Debian Versions (by Stan on 2011-02-08 06:01:48 GMT from United States)
Actually, if you want to try out Wheezy or Sid, might it not be better to wait a couple months until the initial flood of updates that are pushed by developers sitting on them since the freeze is done?
72 • Debian the Arch way (by ix on 2011-02-08 06:10:33 GMT from Romania)
You can install Debian the Arch way: download the netinstall iso, install the base system and add Xorg, a WM+apps or a full DE, so, you don't really need to download 8 DVD's or 52 CD's.
My total download for Debian+Fluxbox+apps is a few hundred MB and the install size is 1,2 GB, but I did disable "recommends".
Why not Arch? Debian is less of a headache for me, it's more straightforward to install and configure, it has a bigger repository and I like its stability. Plus, I don't like to update/upgrade very often.
I don't need the latest and greatest if the old stuff works well. I do use Firefox 4 beta on Debian squeeze, so that's an exception.
Debian is great!
73 • @72 RE: Debian the Arch way (by the truth troll on 2011-02-08 06:45:21 GMT from United States)
"Why not Arch? Debian is less of a headache for me, it's more straightforward to install and configure, it has a bigger repository and I like its stability. Plus, I don't like to update/upgrade very often."
1. Archlinux provides vanilla configuration.
2. Name one thing that your missing from Debian on Archlinux that you can't find in the repos, or aur. (archlinux also have dpkg if you're wondering)
3. Unfortunately, software isn't perfect, so it shouldn't be static.
"I don't need the latest and greatest if the old stuff works well. I do use Firefox 4 beta on Debian squeeze, so that's an exception."
Unfortunately, I will disappoint you by saying that Debian backports a lot of patches from newer versions into the older versions. Your package might be saying version 0.9 but with the patches it includes, it could be more like 90% of 2.0. Now tell me where the logic is in that if you're shipping only a fraction of the real thing.
"Debian is great!"
Archlinux is greater!
74 • Saline OS (by Chdslv on 2011-02-08 07:01:15 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I was planning to download Saline OS later, but the review made me do it yesterday, for I found the review a bit hitting out at a just born distro. I am sure the owners of DW won't like it, but DW for me is a probable list of existing Linux and other Open Source distros, rather than a review website.
Saline OS booted up the first try, and installed in the 1st try too. My laptop didn't give me any problems at all, and I tried everyone of the software included in it and they are quite OK.
It presented me with a nice wallpaper and quite snippy one-click opening of any software on the bottom hiding panel and elsewhere. The conclusion is that it is a quite snippy nice looking operating system! And it may give a fight to Crunchbang...
The laptop I used has the same specifications, except it has a ATI video card. Maybe it is time to change the manufacturer of the reviewer's laptop...
75 • 30K+ packages... (by Chdslv on 2011-02-08 07:03:48 GMT from Sri Lanka)
0K+ packages...Let's see...if we use/check one package a day you need 30000/365=82.19 years...very rarely people live that long these days...so, saying we have 30K+ packages doesn't mean anything, does it?
The Chinese have to remember ~2000 mix of "icons' for everyday use, while the English speakers don't need to remember not even few hundred words...30K+ packages mean 30K+ different things to do...well?
76 • Unity... (by Chdslv on 2011-02-08 07:08:51 GMT from Sri Lanka)
BTW,wait for Unity of Ubuntu, and it would change a lot in the Open Source DE stuff. Started by Limpus in Taiwan, later moved by Moblin/Meego the way of using the computer is arriving, and arriving fast! All others would look old fashioned!
77 • No.62 Saline (by sergei on 2011-02-08 08:11:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
If, sir, you are actively compiling an update, why not listen to the millions who need, not just desire, your .iso to fit on a single CD. Not everyone in this world has access to the goodies we enjoy in the West; not everyone in the developed world has access to .....
78 • saline OS (by Chdslv on 2011-02-08 09:35:16 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Best thing of course is to take away Open-Office and put only a link to it, and that would bring the iso to the size of a CD. I took OO out as I don't need it, so if I remaster it, quite naturally it would fit a CD.
79 • ref @40 • Deb6, by capri.cornus (by forlin on 2011-02-08 13:17:54 GMT from Portugal)
"I reported immediately, but all I got yesterday was being laughed at."
I did met those guys at the Debian forums too. They are zealots. always alert there, who act like if they were some kind of guardian knights of the Debian "Status quo".
They're blind enough to ignore what they achieve is like dropping bird excrements over the Debian public image. They should be closely supervised.
80 • Mageia & more (by Tom on 2011-02-08 14:07:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :) I thought the reason Mageia started was ownership problems and possible break-up of Mandriva. It seemed like Mandriva was about to fall over and vanish but now it all looks good so is there a reason for Mageia to keep struggling on? Since it is still struggling on it would be great to see it appear in the list but i realise that is not easy and that many distros remain on the waiting list for years but i think Mageia deserve a fast-track if that is possible. I dont know how other people feel about that.
Has anyone been able to use OpenOffice and LibreOffice on the same machine, same boot without trouble? It seems most people can but occasionally there appear to be weird little errors that can be fixed by uninstalling one or the other. Anyone else noticed the same thing?
In the 6th comment this week, my 1st of the week, i wanted to thank DW for giving the prize money to the makers of TestDisk. I queried the figures of 215 in some places but 300 in others - not noticing that the 215 was euros and the 300 was dollars! Sorry if that caused any confusion to anyone lol. I guess i fell foul of the Mark Twain quote again. Shucks ;)
Regards from Tom :)
81 • Debian, Arch, Forums and things... (by davemc on 2011-02-08 15:52:48 GMT from United States)
#73 - "Debian is great! Archlinux is greater!"
That is just not true, at all. I love Arch and have used it quite extensively and I tried Debian coming from an Arch and Ubuntu users perspective so I know both worlds (the "gimme gimme now!" and the "I'll do it myself so back off!") very well. Debian is the perfect mix of both. Like #72 said you can do Debian the Arch way (although the build and init scripts are different and Debian has some of its own customizations) and you will end up at the same place when all is said and done. That being an extremely lean, light, resource efficient, and stable OS.
Debian does have a distinct advantage of having a much better infrastructure than Arch has by a long country mile, and that definitely does make life a heck of alot easier than messing around with AUR and package builds. As I indicated above, I found that Debian package quality is definitely top notch, at least in stable (probably less so in Sid or Wheezy). Packaging in Arch is hit or miss at times, especially considering their lightning turn around times from upstream release your basically getting it directly ~from~ upstream with maybe some very minor Arch build modifications and very likely little to no prior testing. With AUR it ~is~ a crap shoot, literally. You get what you get and if you know how to tailor the build script or not has an awful lot to do with getting it to work at all in many of the packages in there (some are extremely well maintained though and work for almost everyone). You can roll your own packages of course, but you can do that with any Distro out there so that is nothing new or unique to Arch.
Lets talk about the zealots...
I have sat in #Debian IRC since last Thursday and watched the whole thing unfold from Squeeze's release to now. I do this with Ubuntu and Arch too just to get a birds eye view to the show as the Soap Opera unfolds and also to help some newbies out when my limited knowledge base can be of some use. With Arch, the typical response, ie. 9 times out of 10 when a newby comes in with a really simple question like -
"I cant get X working!! Whats wrong?!!", the answers are typically, "did you follow by the beginner guide step by step?".
Now, IMO this is the correct response from the Arch perspective, because its expected that you RTFM and then come ask if the book and Google didn't have the answer. Arch is VERY far from being a newby oriented distro. Sometimes you will see some helpful Arch user try to walk the newby through his/her issue, but from my experience, this is definitely not the norm for that IRC. This is exactly the opposite of the Ubuntu IRC where they literally walk all newbies through every step of the most simplistic procedure and answer every question, even the most basic and obvious. RTFM! is a curse word in the Ubuntu circles and heavily frowned upon as being exclusionary and unfriendly. Here is Debian IRC -
"How do I do the upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze?",
....... (nothing)......
.......(more nothing).....
.......(even more nothing).....
"Can anyone help me out with this upgrade?"
...(nothing)...
"Uh.. update your sources to squeeze and then do the upgrade.."
"....sources?"
....... (nothing)......
.......(more nothing).....
.......(even more nothing).....
There are times of course where the interactions on #debian are quite a bit more lively, but you get the picture. Its a completely different crowd there in each case. In all three distro's the documentation and wiki's are outstanding. So good in fact that there really is no reason to just come and flood the IRC with questions because they are almost all covered by the projects own docs. Its always tempting to throw the RTFM! out there but I never once saw this happen in #debian. Not even once. Its just not in that communities mindset, and more than once when a little drama exploded over something, the channel came alive with many people jumping in to diffuse it. I saw this myself today (sorry for jumping in to the middle of your help thread babelin but I still think that guy/girl needs to setup sudoers first.. :P ).
82 • RE 52 - 55 -:61 - 70/71 - 72 - 76 (by Landor on 2011-02-09 00:56:14 GMT from Canada)
#52
"Esp if the testers file bug reports"
Which is a huge if. :)
#55
Forget NTFS, we're talking about a FLOSS operating system here. Why hasn't someone wrote a USB installer that's capable of implementing an EXT3 or EXT4 filesystem? That's the question that should be asked.
#61
"Just goes to show what a truly free, non profit organization with all volunteer contributors can accomplish."
While Debian does have a massive amount of volunteers, the above statement isn't true. It's a common understanding that all major distributions have some form of paid/corporate hired developers working on them. Debian included.
#70-71
I'm curious to see how Clem and whatever crew he has are going to handle the initial flood when it hits. I would believe (I purposely chose than instead of assume..lol) that quite a few of the users of Clem's distribution are not very competent when it comes to hands on with a Unix-Like system. Oh, they're all excited that "Debian testing was made easier for them", but that could easily be to their own chagrin was there's issues with X, drivers, dependencies not being properly met at times. We'll have to see how far Clem's willing to go to coddle the edition through the rougher waters of the first wave of updates.
#72
You called it the Arch Way. That's actually funny, as quite a few distributions could and were commonly built this way long before Arch came into the picture. That made me smile, thank you.
#76
"the way of using the computer is arriving, and arriving fast! All others would look old fashioned!"
So you say...
------------------
I had one problem installing Debian 6.0 that I didn't while it was still testing, which I found odd I must say. I couldn't manage my network connections. It was a simple search and fix away, just had to go in an edit the /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file and all was fixed. I was surprised to see here that nobody else had this issue. The way it's setup it would seem to be something fairly common. I have to wonder now how many actually installed it. Other than that 6.0 has been, well, ok. Meaning, no surprises.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
83 • @55, 82 Linux Live USB & File Systems (by Stan on 2011-02-09 01:12:25 GMT from United States)
Actually, Fedora's liveusb-creator works just fine with ext2/3/4. I know because I have a Fedora 14 live USB flash drive, and it works just fine; the only caveat is that you need to make sure to install syslinux-extlinux before creating it (newer liveusb-creator packages depend on it, but older ones erroneously didn't). The only reason FAT32 is suggested is for compatibility, but if you're only going to be using it for Linux, no reason not to use ext instead.
84 • RE: 83 (by Landor on 2011-02-09 02:55:02 GMT from Canada)
Thank you for letting me know. I never used it. Actually too, it doesn't surprise me at all that Fedora of all the distributions have it so the EXT filesystems are supported. Let's hope that all the other USB utilities end up following suit. As you said, if you're going to be using Linux, there's no reason not to use it, so no reason not to support it.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
85 • @83 - 55, 82 Linux Live USB & File Systems (by James on 2011-02-09 03:39:32 GMT from United States)
Fedora's liveusb-creator must be the exception, because every tutorial and how-to that I have read over the years (even the more recent ones) instructs the reader to re-format the target USB flash drive to FAT32.
THAT is why I asked my question!
Check out this web-page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems
Look at the info in the "Limits" table, FAT32 is FAR less capable compared to NTFS, EXT3, or EXT4.
So why do the how-to's and tutorials still instruct the reader to re-format the USB flash drive to FAT32?
86 • @85 (by Stan on 2011-02-09 03:42:44 GMT from United States)
As far as I know, Fedora's liveusb-creator indeed is the exception. Yet one more reason Fedora is my favorite distribution. :) (No offense to people who prefer other distros; people have different priorities.)
87 • Live USB file systems. (by RollMeAway on 2011-02-09 05:47:07 GMT from United States)
I just dug around and found 7 live USB thumb drives.
two were fat32:
Slax
Ubuntu Netbook Remix
five were ext2 or ext3:
granular (several years old)
MacPuP 4.12
gOS 3.1
Sidux (old kde3)
Dell Ubuntu (over a year old)
....You were saying?
88 • @87, Live USB file systems (by Stan on 2011-02-09 06:12:27 GMT from United States)
News to me; the only other ones I've heard of until now were Ubuntu's and the distro-independent Unetbootin (FAT32 according to their own website). As you noted, though, a lot of the other ext2/3 live USB distros are sadly outdated.
89 • Re # 84 etal (by Nobody on 2011-02-09 06:18:18 GMT from Canada)
FYI _ - You may already know - if the pen drive isn't for booting an installed Distro -
It can be also be formatted for minixFS - which is very good on smaller drives
Just make sure your H/dr includes minix support
(Can sound a bit confusing, there is minin-fs, minix the file Mgr. minix-the O/sys)
Actually, reiserfs (Btree) is better than ext_xxx - no inodes to run out of.
There may seem to be adequate space left on an Ext2/3/ - 4? partition
Yet no more inodes available - unless user formatted w/optional inode settings
(I defer to man sources & "inode-related features as in below)
https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Ext4_Howto#Inode-related_features
Reiserfs recovers gracefully - IMO better than ext3 journals
Rieser4 - or ext4 - don't know
A hard shutdown (or fstab default install set for n_xxx boots before fscking)__
Causes a complete H/Dr. blocks check @ next boot
Reiserfs does not - just reads or rebuilds it's journal
A bad scenario is when the HAL probe has problems reading the flash drive sector ends
It then may not release the drive (even if manually umounted)
In that case, the pen LCD activity light keeps flashing -system may report (device busy)
In that case, DO NOT unplug device - you may lose data on it
= E.G. it was mounted, any file opened- Esp if edited, & not closed, written back -
Which is not write-through, system waits for process idle state - ala floppy writes
90 • Ubuntu 11.04, dubbed 'Natty Narwhal', will bring some major changes (by Petr Topiarz on 2011-02-09 10:32:51 GMT from Czech Republic)
A working environment is where you need things in their place much more then new features. If my company, friends and family were using Ubuntu, it was because updates did not mean completely different set of applications with close/minimise buttons shifting from right to left and back again. We need something that works without knowing about it. We will leave Ubuntu to teenagers, who abandon their new changing lovely games after they play with it for a while. Good bye Ubuntu! Welcome CentOS, Debian and Arch!
91 • Fle-systems (by Tom on 2011-02-09 12:18:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Amazing to see that ext2 came out AFTER Ntfs and that Fat32 is more recent than either!
Ubuntu's standard usb-creator uses Fat32 which is quite convenient for me to store data on when i am not allowed to reboot a machine or locked out of changing the bios boot-order.
Regards from Tom :)
92 • Ubuntu and its influence (by RobertD on 2011-02-09 12:41:29 GMT from United States)
I too agree that Ubuntu has made Linux more accessible to the general population. I personally use a distribution that predates 2003 so Ubuntu’s success has little impact on how I view Linux.
I also disagree with the assumption made by Chdslv that all other distributions fight each other. It’s the user base that seems to be in constant disagreement and not the developers.
I don’t think the commercial market will ever close up or change its current model. Profit, bottom line and mass acceptance are what drive commerce. Mandriva is strong and moving forward as I understand it.
I disagree that Ubuntu is a distribution designed for teenagers but believe it is as close to a commercial product as one can be with out charging for it
Mark Shuttleworth chose Debian as a base because that’s where he had prior experience as a Debian developer. To suggest he could have chosen another distro on which to base Ubuntu is possible but unlikely.
93 • Ubuntu and complains (by meanpt on 2011-02-09 13:21:38 GMT from Portugal)
Ubuntu is fine and anything relates to Ubuntu. I-m using Unity 2D and not complaining. The next time you'll need a linux installation on a tablet, you'll cry for Ubuntu ... and again, people rushing to produce a tablet UI will look at ubuntu first. I'm posting from Bodhi using the tablet UI but don't recommend it to those without sufficient mental agility to adtapt to different locations of icons and so on ... good luck ...
94 • usb (by anticapitalista on 2011-02-09 13:49:01 GMT from Greece)
antiX comes with antiX2usb that caters for fat, ext2 and ext3.
95 • Re: #2aptosid (by Leo on 2011-02-09 14:21:24 GMT from United States)
I decided to test the KDE-Light version of Aptosid in my desktop (standard, 2 years old AMD Phenom x3/ATI radeon 4650 hardware). Sometimes I need a light-kde install in old hardware, so I was really tempted. The thing took minutes and minutes to try to load the live USB, and it just dropped, at the end, to a (initramfs) shell. Kubuntu runs just fine in the machine, and I am sure Debian would.
I think there is a lot of value in using highly tested, highly popular distros like Debian, *buntu, *suse, Fedora, etc.
96 • Saybayon and Firefox locales... (by Anonymous on 2011-02-09 15:12:18 GMT from United States)
I have recently installed Sabayon v5.5 (x86_64 Gnome) and noticed something unsettling with their distribution of Firefox web browser.
CNN's website tracks where the incoming connections are coming from. I am in the U,S.. But with Sabayon. CNN says "It appears you are outside the U.S. , Would you like to make your home page U.S.?"
Now...after seeing that, I went and took a look at resolve.conf, hosts and examined all of the about:config settings in Firefox. I can not find where or how Firefox (or some other program or configuration ) is changing my locale, the install was setup as en_US and the locale as New York.
Sabayon is the only distro that does this ( and like most of you, I have installed very many ).
We have all heard about DNS hijacking and other means of re-routing packets.
I know that this could just be a harmless thing that Sabayon does to collect aggregate data from their user base, however, if that is the case, they should inform the public that they are doing it.
Due to my lack of education on these matters and a distinct inability to trace down what is going on, I replaced the installation with one of my favorite distributions, OpenSUSE 11.3.
97 • DNS Re post #96 (by Nobody on 2011-02-09 16:45:12 GMT from Canada)
Or - it may have been a mistake on CNN side ?
It is a moot point now - you might not have been happy with a sources-based system anyway
If uneasy using net-analysis tools, (netstat, etc)
It was simple to use emerge - to install a diferent browser
Compile time would be less than a complete wipe-then install of SuSe
Many users do this as they may dislike the default browser
Sabayon & Calculate, as examples -are faster to install than say Gentoo
However, once there - you are faced with a completely new experience of
package Mgt.
If I may suggest -try any live cd/dvd for sufficient time to get a "feel" if it's
to your liking
Judging from lack of comments on DWW topic of week - laptop users are
having few problems with their hardware - temperatures or whatever
This is good, as that was not the case a few Yrs ago
98 • Debian 6-internet connection (by Anonymous on 2011-02-09 17:17:59 GMT from Portugal)
I installed from a CD without any problems, because the installer is the same as the Lenny one.
What I would suggest them is to offer a good net access tool in each of the first cd/dvd, which should be the NetworkManager as this is the best one at present. The reason is obvious: not all systems have the few modems provided by the installer detector, and without internet, the installed Debian is useless.
I just don't go to their forums with this subject, to avoid being attacked by the anti-noob fundamentalist brigades.
99 • Debian Squeeze - a few first impressions (by imnotrich on 2011-02-09 18:00:59 GMT from Mexico)
I've been critical of Debian's move to reduce out of the box functionality with Squeeze, but still I couldn't resist trying it out today. In virtualbox of course, because I could not budget 3 days to get everything working as is typical of most Debian installs.
Using the net install iso, the install went smoothly until it was time for a reboot. The install hung and virtual box was unable to terminate the Debian guest, which I find odd - should not virtual box have super user rights? Anyway control-alt-backspaced out, started virtual box again and booted promptly into squeeze.
I installed some additional software that I like to use, and found that...streamtuner STILL looks for xmms, which was abandoned what 2 Debian versions ago? I had to change settings in streamtuner for it to open audacious instead. Audacious will open but stations won't play due to an ALSA error.
Tunapie STILL can't find the shoutcast server - a bug first reported two or three years ago.
Ardour crashes out, whining that it could not start JACK.
Flash install in iceweasel - flawless.
Java support in iceweasel...none.
Youtube or other web-based video and audio streams - not supported.
HPLIP is installed, but does not recognize either of my two hp printers. Lenny had this issue also, and yet you couldnt just install a more current version of hplip because of multiple unsatisfied dependencies. Probably the same for squeeze but again I don't have time to tinker (which is also why I didn't install on my primary desktop because it would break everything I have finally got working in lenny including nvidia).
Bottom line - new is not always better. Less capable is definitely not always better.
I love Debian but so far this release seems a bit...premature.
100 • Debian6, Unity and stuff.. (by davemc on 2011-02-09 19:45:45 GMT from United States)
#99 - Unity in its present state is crap (but holds much promise), much like kde4 years ago. Gnome3 IMO is in better shape by a sliver but I see no value in any of these new "coolaid kidddy" desktops over XFCE, LXDE, Fluxbox, or even current Gnome 2.3x. This type of thing came about with the netbook rage which died a quick and painful death in the market trends. The phones like iPhone and Android phones - again - I see no value in any of this tripe. Tablets are slightly different but looking at whats out there now, no thanks!.. Worthless gadgets and toys is all they be. I have a computer to do work and what I need it to do, not to sit and stare at little widgets that go bouncy bouncy, and even the widgets that can do more than that have only a 1/4th the functionality of a full fledged GUI based application. I think KDE is headed in the right direction (finally) but it took them 6 major milestone releases along the KDE4 path to get to the point they are now and 2+ years of major pain, heartache, and a mass userbase defection. Sheesh!.. You would think we learn from the mistakes of the past! Daddy always said - "If it aint broke..."
Strange issue you had there Landor. Its one I did not have. I installed a couple days prior to release using the release candidate installer and it handled my networking without issue. If you think its a post release installer bug then please report it and your steps to reproduce and fix. The only bug to date that I have discovered is with sudo and its failure to set ~/.Xauthority properly.
There have been no updates since release, which is a jarring experience for me coming from Ubuntu where post install I usually face dozens if not hundreds of them and a reboot or two, and with Arch your usually faced with several updates every day and sometimes these are major, like a full KDE or GNOME suite. I must say though that its an experience I can quickly get used to, especially if it means I don't feel like I'm rolling the dice whenever I update my system.
I also had issues installing Debian via Virtualbox, but had no issues with a live install. The only way I could get it up and running via Virtual Machine was using the autoinstall option. I also have Streamtuner and Ripper and it did not look for xmms, so not sure whats up with that. A base install comes with nothing nonfree and they make no secret about this, so it should come as no surprise that a fresh install does not have things like Flash and Java. Nvidia is covered by Nouveau, which worked flawless for me. Installing the proprietary driver was fairly easy and also worked without a hitch. You can grab all the goodies you want from the non free Debian Multimedia Repo, so its not a big deal.
101 • aptosid and saline recommendations (by imnotrich on 2011-02-09 19:49:32 GMT from Mexico)
I'm sure apto and saline are fine distros for experimentation purposes, but aren't they based on Debian unstable and make extensive use of backports? For my desktop I need stability and functionality. If I'm in the middle of a project and my desktop tanks I don't have several days to reinstall a Debian based OS. I need to be back up and running in the time it takes me to down a beer (for emergency stress relief of course).
With Etch and Lenny both I gave up on the amd64 versions and still I had to do a significant amount of tinkering and futzing. Even now I still have issues with various codecs and web plug ins that I either cant find or can't get to work without crashing (basic stuff like flash and java).
I've run Ubuntu on and off over the years, but lost interest in the 9's when they had that little fiasco with Pulse audio. I've tried the 10's and they're horrible in that they have poor support for many common ati, intel and nvidia video cards plus that Gwibber garbage (designed for teenagers) and other crud that most of us don't use. And don't get me started about the 11's - Unity crashes so hard during most installs that caltech thinks there's an earthquake. However, give props where they are due - Ubuntu's successful implementation of hplip, file and printer sharing with windows or other linux os's, web plug ins, codecs, restricted drivers and Ubuntu's support for wireless cards just keeps improving while other distros are light years behind. If I had to recommend a distro based on hardware support and usability for noobs it would have to be (puke) Ubuntu.
102 • Debian 5, Virtualbox (by fernbap on 2011-02-09 20:04:29 GMT from Portugal)
The reason why testing new distros on Virtualbox is useless is because all you test is that distro compability with the Virtualbox drivers, not even with your own hardware.
You can also expect, if you use a minimalist install and build from there, that a lot of stuff that is usually present on desktop distros will not be there.
Claiming that netinstall was used and then considering a flaw of the distribution the fact that java is not there is just nonsense. That only means you didn't use the right iso to start with.
That is comparing apples (a minimal install) with oranges (a complete desktop build ment for the non-techie user).
As i said before, it took me 20 minutes to install Debian 6. As i use youtube, all i had to do was enable the non-free repository and install the adobe flash plugin, because debian comes with gnash by default, which still doesn't work well on youtube (i know there is a way to make it work). Time spent: 3 minutes, perhaps?
103 • Unity and Ubuntu and Social Networking (by Eddie on 2011-02-09 20:05:57 GMT from United States)
@100 and 101. My, my, my, boys. I'm surprised you two are not running Mandrake. Just because you don't see value in something doesn't mean it has no value. I do value your opinions but when you start complaining about something being too new and just for the young kiddies or teenagers that really is a foolish statement in my opinion. One day they will be the leaders and shakers of this world. They love social networking, and eye candy, and will continue to do so. Don't insult their taste because they see value in something that you don't. I'm probably older then both of you and I can even see the value of these new fangled things like Unity, Gwibber, etc. BTW, Pulse Audio has been fixed for a while now and so has most video problems. Lets move along please.
104 • Debian 6 (by fernbap on 2011-02-09 20:06:39 GMT from Portugal)
Sorry for the typo in the title, i obviously was referring to 6, not 5
105 • Re #100 (by imnotrich on 2011-02-09 20:08:33 GMT from Mexico)
Yes, I know the Debian base install comes without "nonfree" stuff, I know that was a decision made by the developers and I'm not trying to start a discussion about why they would do something that IMHO seems not so smart.
Nouveau works great with NVIDIA cards, if you don't mind being stuck in 800x600. There are no other resolution options, at least not for my Nvidia 6150LE. Bit of a hassle to install the nvidia driver in Lenny, and once complete it still does not support 3D games. But at least I have 1024x768.
I'm aware of Debian's non-free multi-media repos, and they would be a good resource if everything in there was reliable and 100% functional and tested to work with the current Debian version on most hardware. Seems like it's not. In contrast, other distros actually test these things before including them in the repos. Ok, I understand a lot of this is 3rd party code but please! Before dumping these files on your user base and potentially borking an install or at minimum causing your users untold headaches kindly test it first! This is one department that Ubuntu has it right, make sure the plug ins and codecs work...and the include them or make it very easy to obtain them.
106 • Re post # 100 Bug do (by nobody on 2011-02-09 20:17:16 GMT from Canada)
To my knowledge, that is not a sudo "bug"
107 • Re #102 (by imnotrich on 2011-02-09 20:28:12 GMT from Mexico)
The reason I tested in Virtual box was previously stated, I knew any new Debian install would have issues and I didn't have time to fix them (nor did I want to lose the time I had already spent fixing Lenny issues on my current install).
Another reason to use Virtual box would be if the distro you're trying to test is not compatible with your hardware-something I had to do with Ubuntu 10.04, 10.10 and the 11's but I digress.
So have you tried running you tube videos in full screen with your official flash plug in? Crashes out every time for me in both iceweasel and chrome. And I'm still unable to print web pages,documents or e-mails when using Chrome.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but it needs to be said...things like java, common codecs and web plug ins, printing, wired and wireless networking support, sound, video functionality is BASIC stuff. There's plenty of room on a CD to include the basics but instead many distros focus on "features" and "eye candy" (Gwibber would be one example) that don't contribute to usability. As these images become more and more bloated, the features displace basic functionality and/or the iso eventually becomes too fat to fit on a regular cd...so then you have these 800mb dvd iso's that waste nearly 4g of dvd capacity.
A good example from distros past would be the Puppy 3's and 4's. Brilliant work. Awesome hardware support and lots of commonly used software in an iso roughly 80-100mb. It can be done. The question we should be asking is...why isn't done more often!
108 • Re post # 100 Sudo bug (by nobody on 2011-02-09 20:29:30 GMT from Canada)
Darn - so fumble-fingered today - must have hit submit while editing
> " The only bug to date that I have discovered is with sudo and its failure to set ~/.Xauthority properly."
To finish thoughts, sudo does not have the same priviledges as su
Nor r does su without the -l ( login) parameter
The most obviuos is the environment path, as inherited of the user invoking it
Please see relevant man/info pages
Sudoer tools are an admin "convenience" while aiding to lessen possible user damage to the system
HTH
109 • @107 (by fernbap on 2011-02-09 20:35:52 GMT from Portugal)
"So have you tried running you tube videos in full screen with your official flash plug in?"
Yes, i did. Works flawlessly on Iceweasel (i don't use chrome)
"things like java, common codecs and web plug ins, printing, wired and wireless networking support, sound, video functionality is BASIC stuff."
Basic? perhaps, depends on your point of view. However, those are not the scope of a minimal install.
If you install from the standard DVD 1, you will see that those will all be present and will be included in the standard install. The only thing i had to add was rar (which is non-free). That is why i hinted that you used the wrong iso to begin with.
As to why the DVD is so large i already explained earlier. The DVD includes everything you will need for ll kinds of installs and also the most common applications, so that you won't even need internet to add them.
110 • Re post * 107 and all related (by Nobody on 2011-02-09 21:27:09 GMT from Canada)
. "?A good example from distros past would be the Puppy 3's and 4's. Brilliant work. Awesome hardware support and lots of commonly used software in an iso roughly 80-100mb. It can be done. The question we should be asking is...why isn't done more often! "
I strongly agree Puppy has a different (non-mainstream) approach to how a system may be run
The odd thing (my opinion only) is why cripple it - for the sake of a mere few k's of space
By that, it's meant - I.E. > no m/slocate tools,which obviates use of system search database
The term shell is very limited in scope, no MC in quickpet repository,
while the boast of "woof" as builder, allows any to "borrow" binaries,
this presumes a user has linux skills to do so.
The much vaunted small size comes - as it must - by no default inclusion of
other valued utilities, bash commands
As to running in ram - users may not be aware there must be sufficient hard drive space allocated to use for @ LEAST temporary storage of files while any
pre-compiling or installing is done
As to security - if a save file (to persistent storage) is used - which it must to add
any Apps or save E .G printer Cfg;
Any possible malware however unlikely that may be - -(embedded graphical links from Url surfing ?) has been installed - the exact same as any "normal" H/Dr. installed O/Sys.
There is always many things to consider RE supposed strengths, limitations of any system
Seems to me - the majority of complaints discussed here, are related to user's subjective view in regard to "default" installs
Ease of use. is largely dependent on users' "druthers" & level of experience
Installation issues however, are mostly adequately covered by any review topic presented by DWW
While using a live disc to assess - how many take the time to "fake " an App install ?
AS example . I have done this to "install" then activate an nVidia driver
*when the live cd didn't default activate vesa for my card
Initrd "hangs" probe, then may stop or finish boot - only to present unwary w/blank screen
If well coded, the f7 tty may be escaped, needed steps taken, then GUI desktop activated
Just some thoughts - hoping to present alternate thinking RE good/bad & approaches to all
-
111 • Debian/Grub missing Windows (by PatrikJA on 2011-02-09 22:15:31 GMT from Sweden)
The problem with Debian 6 failing to include Windows is a known bug; apparently one only needs to run grub-update after the installation:
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=608025
112 • RE: 111 (by Landor on 2011-02-09 23:45:43 GMT from Canada)
That's actually the other way around, "update-grub" (without the quotes) is the command.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
113 • Debian Squeezy (by Dan on 2011-02-10 20:56:22 GMT from United States)
I see a few programs have already been updated. I'm really glad the freeze is over.
114 • Debian Squeeze (by Anonymous on 2011-02-10 22:01:49 GMT from United States)
Debian is old fashioned with its Gnome. The time had come for Unity,Gnome 3 and Meego.
It is time to get away from old-timer college boys stuff
115 • old-timer (by RobertD on 2011-02-10 22:34:48 GMT from United States)
I think it’s inevitable that new desktop environments and window managers will come along to replace the status quo. And, not only do I accept this, but welcome it as well. But don't forget it's us old-timers that built the foundations for these to sit upon.
If you strip away all the fancy GUI's and widgets then what you’re left with is the command line. And unless you truly understand the command line you better hope nothing ever breaks. And we all know this is not the case because everything breaks.
So bring on the fancy desktop because I will be one of the first to try them. But I have a good foundation to work from (Slackware,and yes you can call me a fanboy) but when it breaks I have the good old command line which is where I feel most comfortable anyway.
RobertD
116 • Video Playback (by Anonymous on 2011-02-11 02:30:15 GMT from United States)
As was discussed previously, modern hardware provides the capability to play video full screen.
Well I stumbled upon this video at You Tube, of a Compaq LTE-5100 laptop playing a demo video using a 90Mhz cpu, 8Meg ram, and Cirrus Logic 7543 video 2Meg and Win95.
Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX1lelrzbyI
I posted those specs from the site and my own experience; I also have a LTE-5100, which I have upgraded to 72Meg ram and much larger hard drive. I don't have the docking station.
When I bought mine years ago I promptly wiped the drive and installed Debian Potato.
But to this day I have never played video on it.
As time went by I slowly upgraded Potato to Woody , Sarge then got stuck around Etch since Xorg doesn't support the 7543 chipset anymore.
Even with 72Meg ram, listing the Debian repository with Dselect, Aptitude or Synaptic causes terrible swap usage and thrashing. The repsitory database data is huge.
Back to my point, Old systems with old OS's did things that require much more cpu and video to do today. I do admit that the You Tube video is showing only a window sized playback.
Does anyone know of Xorg accellerated drivers for Cirrus Logic 7543?
Thanks DW
117 • reviews - my Intel wireless card was not detected (by gnomic on 2011-02-11 02:35:12 GMT from New Zealand)
Time and again in reviews by Jesse it's 'my Intel wireless card was not detected'. What is this mystery wireless card? I think we should be told :-)
Just curious as it's my impression that in general Intel wifi is pretty well supported in Linux. Certainly I hardly ever see a distro nowadays that won't run the ipw2200 wifi on a couple of ThinkPads here (except when the firmware is omitted for reasons of freedom or forgetfulness). Perhaps it might be interesting to know what the vanishing wifi is not being detected by - this will vary from distro to distro in terms of gui utilities obviously, but the output of dmesg usually provides a clue as what is happening or not happening as the case may be.
118 • LOL!!!!! (by Landor on 2011-02-11 16:03:13 GMT from Canada)
"LibreOffice - an office suite free of corporate restrictions"
They had to come up with something, what a joke.
Every noob and zealot that pumps their fist in the air about having the right to install proprietary can now swear an oath that you're "Free" and stand proud against "Corporate Restrictions".
A big joke that one is, especially while all the hypocritical goons most likely use VirtualBox/Oracle Java! LOL!
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
119 • @111 (by Barnabyh on 2011-02-11 17:22:32 GMT from Germany)
Since when is it a bug not to detect and include Windows by default? ;)
120 • donation (by AC on 2011-02-11 20:21:11 GMT from Hungary)
CGSecurity: great choice.
If you accept suggestions, I would suggest the OpenShot video editor for the next donation.
121 • Maybe it's just me... (by shady on 2011-02-12 06:55:27 GMT from United States)
Did Distrowatch.com's font turn into Ubuntu for anybody else?
122 • RE: 121 Ubuntu font (by ladislav on 2011-02-12 09:30:39 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, it's a free font and it's pretty so why not use it? Unless there are objections from the readers... if so, please voice them.
123 • RE: 122 (by Landor on 2011-02-12 22:49:24 GMT from Canada)
I'm not a huge proponent of Canonical/Ubuntu, and although I do believe they had their own agenda behind creating the font, you're completely right, it's a very nice looking font.
If you recall, that's something I missed about you doing reviews. You're keenly aware of the little things, few people talk about how readable a distribution is, how nice the fonts/text are/is. That's why you're a better reviewer than most, the details matter to you, like fonts.
I for one think using the font is a good thing.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
124 • New fonts (by Anonymous on 2011-02-13 03:46:58 GMT from United States)
I thought the font changed but thinking maybe something wrong with my browser...I've been having Google Chrome being hijacked lately. Only happens using Windows. Linux Chrome works without issue.
Yes, I like the new fonts.
125 • @123 Canonical agenda (by sudonym on 2011-02-13 10:49:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
"...although I do believe they had their own agenda behind creating the font..."
I'm not wanting to start an argument or anything, just curious, but could you offer a little more detail?
Not to worry though if you'd rather not.
126 • Bodhi (by meanpt on 2011-02-13 14:08:42 GMT from Portugal)
It was nice seeing Bodhi made its way to the main list. Congratulations.
127 • Mint KDE (by fernbap on 2011-02-13 15:56:23 GMT from Portugal)
How come we see here all kinds of releases, including first alfas, while Mint KDE RC was released several days ago and DW said nothing about it?
128 • Ref#127 (by Anonymous on 2011-02-13 16:14:59 GMT from United States)
Its only reported here if the release has more info than just a statement of "its released".
129 • @128 (by fernbap on 2011-02-13 16:45:37 GMT from Portugal)
"Its only reported here if the release has more info than just a statement of "its released"."
It's obvious that you didn't read the release announcement....
130 • Re posts #127 /#129 (by Anonymous on 2011-02-13 22:50:11 GMT from Canada)
Hey -give the guys a break - OTOH - why not just post brief note & URL
http://linuxmint.com/rel_julia_kde.php
Likely scenario:
Mint announced Feb 8th - busy preparing for the expected server load;
May not have notified Ladislav
DWW has full schedule Re next weeks edition - as well as monitor comments section
It is "release_class" ...if chomping @ the bit - try it & do own mini-review
Any distro fans - the desired test_user_base -of RClasses other than finalized -
will already closely follow it's home page
Notes:
I applaud the decision not to enable Ctrl+Alt+Bspc -
Too many users use it as a "shortcut to log out" - short it may be_
The LONG *sad story is ~ A good way to lose some desktop function
(If "hung" desktop - try to kill offending process first)
If above three-finger alternate works - so does dropping to a different
CLI -tty
What is disliked - all too many Distros insist on using a GUI log-in
Kill it - the splash screen re-spawns (new users will then face difficulties guessing @ passwords)
Interesting cop-out RE Mint "upstream issues"
By implication... If it's broke - we blame Ubuntu"
Mint solution - "It will be removed for stable edition"
So how do they (or nay) justify using their variant - an alternate pretty-face ?
131 • RE: 125 (by Landor on 2011-02-13 19:48:19 GMT from Canada)
For the last year, or two years, I've 'kind of' kept my opinions to a lighter tone. But to answer your one question, I don't mind discussing it. :)
Everyone views Canonical, Shurrleworth, or Ubuntu as the new guiding light for Linux. Not everyone, but the masses surely prostrate themselves over the distribution's arrival/presence in our community, no?
1) I have to laugh over that, seriously. It's the most obvious of all, yet so many miss it. You want to create a winning business model that springs from a community project, what do you need to do? First is build that community right? But you have to build it properly. Luckily Mark's no stupid man. He's a self-made billionaire right? That's his first advantage, the community believes they "need someone to do this or that, with power". It's always someone else, and it's always money and power. His next ace in the hole was the fact that he knew the community from working with Debian before. What an advantage, no? See, when you're a smart businessman, and you have the advantage of knowing your end-consumer intimately, it's almost unfair how well you can manipulate them. So with his money and his understanding of the community he's launched (remember the level of funding he's used to) programs that are cheap 'in comparison' to the advertising boon he'd get, like the free CDs. That one was pure genius. What a way to stroke the nerds, and get his product out there far and wide. There's more, but I'll leave that up to everyone else to figure out.
2) Now, he wants that business model that's a winner and he's not making it with a couple things he's tried so far, support is one right? He also pushed for the Dell and HP markets and that hasn't paid off. Then there was the netbook boom that died the minute XP was relaunched. He's always played catch-up. But there's hope for him yet, no? There's the embedded and hand-held market(s), respectively. I actually see him gunning for a share of the Apple market, specifically the iPad. I'm shocked that the community can't see it for what it is, it's right in front of their nose. He's switched the buttons over to the left side. He's taken on a new Apple-esque purple theme. He's focused on touch screens and using less resource intensive applications like Wayland and Unity. He's done this regardless of how the community feels about them. What makes it really funny, we have some people here calling it the desktop of the future when they're too zealously blind to see the reality.
3) Now think about the font, a font that makes them unique. Linux has sucked at fonts, it's only now that it's going to get better, but they're still ugly. MS spent a fortune on their fonts early on and it was a smart move. I'm quite sure Apple has as well. The font was made to improve a product to make it sell better. To make it function better on a 'market' for the end consumer that has no clue as to what it is. Being donated freely to the community was just a by-product of it.
4) I don't see it working for him, really. He's chasing his tail, going around in circles. He missed the boat so to speak a couple of times. He hasn't really found a place for his company grow and prosper, and now if I'm correcnt, he's trying to enter a market that's dominated by the likes of Apple and Google. What does that bode for Linux? Being happy with the table scraps from the other two?
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it either. Let him make money off his money and effort. It's his right. But people here don't understand business, advertising, and consider Ubuntu this great and mighty community project, that's for the community only. It's far from that, and plain to see, as long as the people looking are willing to open more than their eyes for a change, which as Jake likes to call them, The 'Sheeple' amongst us are adverse to doing.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
132 • RE: Mint KDE RC (by ladislav on 2011-02-14 00:20:32 GMT from Taiwan)
Guys, it's in the FAQs and we've discussed this before, but here it is again: development releases of non-main editions do not get a full announcement on DistroWatch - only a quick link to the ISO image in the "Latest Distributions" rectangle (main page, left sidebar). The reasons is that some distros produce a large amount of editions, each of which is released at a different time.
This is a problem because if I announce every single release of every single development and stable version, then we'll have people complaining that a single distro gets too much exposure. There are indeed distro developers whom I suspect of deliberately producing many editions and many releases - just to get into the the headlines. I don't think Mint is one of them, but there are developers who do try to abuse the system (and get more exposure, higher page hit count, etc.).
This policy of not announcing non-main development releases should also encourage developers to release all their editions together. Do you really want to wait several months after an Ubuntu release to get a new Mint KDE edition? It's only two months before another new Ubuntu is out...
So in short, all Mint main (GNOME) releases (both development and stable) will be announced in the main news. For non-main editions (e.g. Mint KDE, Fluxbox, Xfce, x86_64, etc.) only the stable releases will be announced in the main news. For those who want to follow the non-main editions, there is a special RSS feed just for the "Latest Distributions" rectangle: http://distrowatch.com/news/dwd.xml
133 • Re131: (by Anonymous on 2011-02-14 00:27:17 GMT from United States)
I do agree about what you say about Ubuntu, but it is a hard or huge task to get the masses away from the other Big two proprietary systems and seem unique.
And so far, that is so far, it is still basically free; do you see any big changes in licensing coming up? No monopoly as of yet.
Me, so far I'll stick with Debian and Slackware.
Thanks DW
134 • RE: 133 and a point I forgot to mention (by Landor on 2011-02-14 00:43:44 GMT from Canada)
#133
But you didn't really understand completely. I "personally" believe that he doesn't really have any goal in mind for getting the masses away from using Apple or MS. He has a goal in mind for the embedded market. I'm sure that will change eventually too.
-------
Another thing I forgot to mention, Ubuntu was all hyped about "Cloud Computing" everyone was, right? We're not really hearing a whole lot about the cloud now are we? Have the skies over the horizon changed? I think so. But that's just one more area that seemed to fizzle for Ubuntu/Canonical. Cloud computing, haha. Anyway, so there's the point. He really has no direction is a massive market that he's trying to get a piece of. So if the embedded market fizzles out like the netbooks did, where will he go next. Anyone want to guess? I don't see anything coming up that is all that big.
I'd also like to thank you Ladislav. As always, your kindness and expediency is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
135 • RE: 132 (by Landor on 2011-02-14 02:57:15 GMT from Canada)
I just want to comment on one point that you made people aware of, "This policy of not announcing non-main development releases should also encourage developers to release all their editions together. Do you really want to wait several months after an Ubuntu release to get a new Mint KDE edition? It's only two months before another new Ubuntu is out..."
First, I agree with it 100%. That said, I think it shows a bit of a lack within the community to get it out in a timely manner, but also, that these community editions are obviously not being built in sync with the main distribution. I can't understand why these projects cannot collaborate during the main distribution's development cycle. I don't use these distributions myself, so as to why I'm commenting, I find it illogical, and inefficient to do it any other way.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
136 • A couple points ... (by jake on 2011-02-14 06:01:41 GMT from United States)
1) Mark "space cadet" Shuttleworth is a businessman. Anyone who thinks he's shelling out the big bucks building the *buntu-base "for the community" (whatever that means!) is deluding themselves. He's in it for the potential money.
2) Fonts and desktop-art don't matter. People with a clue always change the defaults to something they find personally pleasing right after installation. People without a clue leave the default alone because, well, they don't have a clue. Discussing it past these two simple facts is pointless. And it's *really* pointless in a review.
3) ladislav using "ubuntu" as his preferred font is wasted in my case, as I don't have that font installed, and likely never will. The fact that I generally use "lynx[i]" in a terminal to browse the web[ii] probably muddies the waters somewhat.
4) Computers are literal, Landor ... it's "jake", not "Jake" ;-)
[i] I know there are arguably better text-only web browsers these days, but after close to 20 years, I'd really rather not re-educate my fingers ...
[ii] 4-nines of what I do online is text-only ... Why should I waste bandwidth on graphics & sound?
Number of Comments: 136
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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