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1 • Netbook manufacturers and more (by Felix Pleșoianu on 2010-10-11 09:28:15 GMT from Romania) |
No surprise wrt Acer's treatment of Android. Netbook manufacturers have been clueless about Linux right from the very first netbook (the in/famous Asus EEE PC 701). Remember that horribly hobbled Xandros? It's the same situation.
Also, please please PLEASE stop calling Android a Linux. It is in no way, shape or form a GNU/Linux system as we know them. It's a... something, made by Google from scratch, that just happens to use the Linux *kernel* and nothing else. Syllable Server is more of a Linux than Android will ever be.
2 • Re: filesystems for solid state drives (by I should be asleep now..... on 2010-10-11 10:03:47 GMT from Canada)
Gee, it's so early nobody else has shown up yet. Since I"m not really awake, my memory may be at fault here, but doesn't the firmware/controller inside the solid state drive incorporate an algorithm that implements "wear leveling"? (At least recent such drives from Intel etc.). If so, that should help address your concerns over premature failure. I believe Intel's studies indicate at least 5 year typical lifetimes. So none if the mentioned measures would be needed, although your recommendation re. atime is good. Don't recall if I saw this on Intel's site, or maybe the kernel page on lwn.net weekly edition?
Once the price on these things comes down and I can afford one, the last remaining noisemaker to eliminate on a desktop/tower will be those fans. Not sure I want to bother with water cooling yet. Maybe I can simply hook up one of those miserable politicians to the system and let him blow away to his heart's content? Oh, wait - politicians blow HOT air! Nope, not good....
3 • What is a good File System for SSDs? (by Sol on 2010-10-11 11:10:52 GMT from United States)
Is it me, or was the question not really answered in the article? Some were mentioned, but none was labeled as a good File System for SSDs.
4 • linux on netbooks (by Rick on 2010-10-11 11:11:02 GMT from United States)
I suppose calling Android Linux would be akin to calling OSX BSD...
I can't work out how it is so hard to get an OEM (or whatever you'd call HP, Dell, Acer, etc.) to put a competent Linux distro on their computers. Heck, I'd even be satisfied with an Enterprise distro like Red Hat or SLE if it meant not having the Redmond giant on there. People buying netbooks are used to getting a 10-year-old OS (XP) anyway, so a stale commercial Linux distro would still be light-years ahead...
I think part of the issue is the OEM Windows license is such a small part of the total cost of a new computer it's just not that much of an incentive to save maybe $30 on a computer with Linux instead of Windows (Case in point, I bought my computer with Vista (argh!) for less than a similarly configured built-from-scratch windows-free box).
What we (Linux world) need is a computer company to embrace Linux and develop systems based around the OS instead of trying to cram a sub-par distro into their boxes packed with proprietary hardware, maybe taking a page from OSX's "it just works" launch campaign, except underselling Windows instead of being a niche boutique brand. Saving that, If someone could lend me a couple million dollars to develop such a company...
5 • @3 (by Rick on 2010-10-11 11:16:07 GMT from United States)
I've noticed Jesse's Q&As generally don't give a straightforward answer, but then again if they did they wouldn't be an entire article...
I think the gist is, just use what you'd normally use (probably ext3 or 4) and not something like reiserFS and you should be fine.
6 • Acer 'notbook' (by gumb on 2010-10-11 11:35:39 GMT from France)
I recall when the first Linux netbooks arrived and I was surprised to see them sitting in the high street store windows and in the supermarkets. My surprise turned to disdain when I noted that the desktop theming had been designed to look as near-identical to Windows XP as possible, and that any reference to Linux as the OS was hidden away to some obscure corner of the box. Customers were snapping up these machines in droves without being adequately informed of what they contained. Unsurprisingly, being misled like that turned many customers and media commentators against Linux itself. It seems that Linux was viewed by the manufacturers as a dirty word and they were embarrassed to let consumers know about the technology.
Now we have this sad lose-lose case of a netbook where the manufactuer is again embarrassed to promote the Linux part of the system, and should the user even discover Android at all, they are confronted with a permanent visual reminder in the corner of the screen suggesting 'are you really sure you want to stay here and not go back to Windows?' What sort of strong-arming must Microsoft have enforced to make this happen? It's like a deliberate and direct insult being delivered to Google. And yet if the user does shun the crippled Android system, they're left with an ageing, outmoded 9-year-old hopelessly insecure system in its place. What a total waste and disaster of a device. Why on Earth have Acer even manufactured it at all?
7 • Re. 6 (by uz64 on 2010-10-11 11:53:45 GMT from United States)
"Why on Earth have Acer even manufactured it at all?"
Anything for a quick buck. The "idea" of an alternative, quick OS is probably the only thing they're selling here, I seriously doubt they expect (or intend) any one to use the butchered Android. Just another bullet point that will look good on the feature sheet beside the computer and get people to buy it over others.
8 • Kubuntu (by Brandon Sniadajewski on 2010-10-11 12:26:18 GMT from United States)
I have the latest 10.10 on my machine, and it run very well. I haven't run into any real issues yet. I kaven't use the new KPackageKit though, since I have Muon on it instead, and it works well. They ( the Kubuntu developers) have done a good job. Keep it up.
9 • Crippled Android (by PsynoKhi0 on 2010-10-11 12:31:25 GMT from Sweden)
Though I usually hate conspiracy theories, could it be that Android was intentionally crippled not to make XP look bad, and piss MS off? Or "We won't sue you nor bust your license discount if you choose to launch that dual-boot thingie... As long as the alternative feels underpowered *wink wink*"?
Do the more expensive models have the same Android setup?
10 • File systems for SSDs (by goek on 2010-10-11 12:36:29 GMT from Germany)
How do I know when the life of my SSD is coming to an end? Let´s say I buy a netbook with an SSD and install Ubuntu Netbook Remix, will there be a warning in 2 years that my SSD is becoming old and I have to do a backup? Because if the SSD just dies without a warning that would suck...
11 • RE:Looking-for-a-solid-solution asks:What is a good file system for SSDs? (by Bill on 2010-10-11 12:47:19 GMT from Canada)
Is the answer to the question is that any file system can be used?
I see explanations of file system options but no definite answer.
Since Ext 4 is the norm now, is that a good option?
12 • Neptune (by Gustavo on 2010-10-11 12:47:35 GMT from Brazil)
It´s funny to see Neptune OS displaying a Sun image as its default desktop backdrop.
13 • Whateverbuntu (by ubuntufan on 2010-10-11 12:51:24 GMT from Poland)
Could all ubuntu variants that are not in the first 10 or 20 positions in the popularity contest be not put on the main site? There's too many of them, they have the same release cycle, same change logs... Information about the original Ubuntu's release is enough.
14 • RE:9 Agree (by Eddie on 2010-10-11 12:54:49 GMT from United States)
While reading the netbook review that's the first thing that came to mind. It looks like this fight between MS and Google has been fixed.
15 • re Crippled Android (by Scott on 2010-10-11 13:06:18 GMT from United States)
As has already been said, this isn't a big surprise. When Acer released their first Linux netbook, the specs were (in the US, in the UK, the pricing was somewhat different) far worse than Windows specs, at only $30-$40 USD savings. They also used a crippled version of Linux. The same was said on netbook forums about MSI and their version of Linux. Most of them seemed to release Linux Netbooks with versions of Linux that would drive both Linux and Windows users away, then they'd wonder why the Linux netbooks didn't sell.
Some Acer exec did imply that there was pressure from MS--this was a long time ago, sorry to be so vague about it. Whether its conspiracy or simply not knowing their Linux market, I don't know, but generally, the netbooks' commercial implementations of Linux haven't been very well done.
16 • RE 11: SSDs (by Jesse on 2010-10-11 13:34:42 GMT from Canada)
Yes, my general point was that most home users won't need to use a special file system.... nor jump through the other hoops some people suggest for SSDs. Basically you should be able to treat your solid state drive just like a traditional drive.
There may be some extreme cases where people really will wear out their hard drive, but most home users will upgrade their computer before the SSD tanks.
17 • How to restore UNR 10.04 interface in 10.10? (by Rainforst-Rescue.org on 2010-10-11 13:39:36 GMT from Germany)
Ubuntu Netbook Remix was running perfectly for years on my Samung NC-10, but Unity ist unusably slow.
How can I restore the old 10.04 interface in UNE Maverick?
The Wiki just explains the opposite way (running 10.04 with the 10.10 interface):
18 • On Linux adoption (by Basilio Guzman on 2010-10-11 14:05:23 GMT from Puerto Rico)
I am basically glad when I hear another manufacturer (big name brand) puts a Linux distro on their hardware. To some extent it puts Linux at hand to those outside the geek hordes, and brings the opportunity to become familiar with "something" outside Windows. What is sad, is when there is a poor implementation of the OS, as is the case with Acer (at least for now). I have seen Acer reinvent itself in the past, and I hope the redeem themselves anytime soon.
19 • Acer "instant on" (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 14:23:50 GMT from United States)
I have an Eee PC 1005PEB, which came with a custom Linux distro (Expressgate) as an "instant on". it was never meant to be extensible - just a fallback for when Windows isn't working. Android is an improvement over this in that it at least uses native resolution - Expressgate inexplicably defaulted to 800x600 even though it was their own hardware. It goes away, though, once you install a fresh Linux distro over the whole thing.
20 • not surprised that Acer doesn't understand Linux (by Tidux on 2010-10-11 14:44:58 GMT from United States)
After all, nmap says (with 85% certainty and no alternative suggestions) that acer.com is running on an IBM mainframe. If they don't even use Linux for their big servers, it's unlikely they have any competent developers in house.
21 • restore to any previous release @17 Rainforest (by Tom on 2010-10-11 14:52:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :) In my experience with Ubuntu you can just reinstall a previous version over the curretn one but make sure you use "Manual Partitioning" so that you can ensure that you DO NOT format the partition.
Since that would leave you with only the default programs & packages it is wise to get a list of the currently installed programs from Synaptic
Administration - System - "Synaptic Package Manager" - File - "Save markings as"
and make sure you tick the box to save ALL packages. Save this somewhere safe in your
hopefully somewhere like
It would also be best to back-up your /home possibly with the rsync command in case you accidentally get my advice wrong or something unexpected goes wrong (Murphy's Law can be your friend here).
To get the packages back in the new install of the previous release just use the "File" menu in Synaptic to "Read markings". Any packages that you reinstall should hopefully find the settings that you already had in /home.
Good luck and regards from
22 • ... bad publicity? (by meanpt on 2010-10-11 14:55:08 GMT from Portugal)
... meaning, a bad OS and a bad installation isn't good for Linux ...
23 • SSDs - been for a checkup yet? (by forthurst on 2010-10-11 15:22:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why are 'SSD's called Drives? Drives are mechanical devices using tape or disk.
Which filing system? Disk filing systems are designed to attenuate the physical limitations of spinning disks and are organised accordingly. Using a disk filing system on an 'SSD' therefore makes no sense. I have just checked my System Monitor and I note that most of my loaded programs are sleeping in virtual memory so any use of SSDs for storing active program data would need new versions of operating software as well as filing systems. Furthermore, much data security access to disk is not to protect against disk failure, but general system security and recovery, so chopping it makes no sense and would be a massive step backward.
24 • Instant on linux (by J L Martins on 2010-10-11 15:56:12 GMT from Portugal)
I bought recently an asus netbook for my son, and a notebook for me. Both came with an Express Gate linux directly accessible from a second on/off button. If you want to browse the web or a few more simple things you can do them with a fast (~15 seconds) startup. I use it when I want to look at something on the web.
Recently my son messed up the windows XP (he needs it for school in my country) and I had to reinstall (took a couple of hours...). After that Express gate and all his data disappeared. Fortunately I had saved the data with systemrescuecd.
It seems that their Windows recovery disk wipes out and does not reinstall Express Gate by default... Again it looks like they do not care about the their "simplified" linux OS.
25 • Benefits of running ANDROID on a pc? (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 16:25:36 GMT from Spain)
I don't have a smartphone, so what is so good about Android, and what would be the benefits over Linux or Windows running on a pc?
26 • Ubuntu 10.10 (by Luis Garcia on 2010-10-11 17:10:52 GMT from Colombia)
I'm running Ubuntu 10.10 since RC, and so far has been good. Specifically, ATI Radeon open source drivers are way better than on 10.04. The new VLC version now supports AVCHD 1080/60p from my Panasonic TM700 (which was not supported on 10.04), and ffmpeg works pretty well converting those huge files to something distributable to my family and friends. However, if you're already happy with the last version, I don't see a strong reason to update.
27 • Android on Acer (by rjej123 on 2010-10-11 17:14:09 GMT from Canada)
I'm not surprised of that poor Android implementation and that we are still getting 99.999999% of the new computers equipped with Windows. Although the price for "embedded" Windows is not too high, THERE IS a price you need to pay and THERE IS a profit for the manufacturer.
Why Android ? No idea.
28 • 25 • Benefits of running ANDROID on a pc (by Bill on 2010-10-11 17:23:18 GMT from Canada)
Android is meant to run on very light hardware so it is fast.On the phones there is many programs you can install like iPhone. I bought a Palm Pre with WebOS which is great but is not getting the software options of Android and iOS.My next phone will be an Android.
From the article, it seems Andriod is locked down so options to do anything on this machine is limited. Acer knows what they did, hence the small partition size.
29 • OpenSuse (by Bill on 2010-10-11 17:26:25 GMT from Canada)
I am glad OpenSuse is leading the way with 9 month releases.It should show the stability a distro needs with being able to release recent software as well.
30 • New Linux Distros (e.g. Ubuntu 10.10) and Geforce4MX 440 onboard chip (by tim on 2010-10-11 17:27:27 GMT from Germany)
I run an old computer (1,8GHz Athlon, 1GB RAM) with an Geforce4MX 440 onboard graphics chip.
I tested Ubuntu 10.10 (Live CD), but graphics didn't work. The screen is flickering all the time and completely unusable. Finally I get a black screen.
Then I tried the Fedora 13 Live CD: Same result.
Then the OpenSuse 11.3 Live CD: Same result.
Ubuntu 8.04 and OpenSuse 11.1 work.
How can it be that such a severe nouveau bug is existent in all new distros?
I suppose that no one installs such distros after the Live CDs failed, so there is "nothing" to report.
There are a few corresponding bug reports at Launchpad (with reference to Ubuntu 10.04) but obviously nothing happened after they have been reported.
The same thing happened in Fedora's Bugzilla due to "insufficient data".
Does anyone know where to report such a severe and common bug so that it can be solved?
31 • Mageia forking what? (by MacLone on 2010-10-11 17:29:43 GMT from Mexico)
Obviously Mandriva will be dead very soon after Mageia begins... so what? Mageia is going to do everything when Mandriva is gone? because there will be no more Mandriva to fork to.
32 • #24 Instant on linux (by av1611 on 2010-10-11 18:22:22 GMT from Ukraine)
Hi! I think you ought to refer to the official documentation and support on that matter. A similar version of linux at Lenovo portable computers is distributed as an installable EXE file of 200 mb or so. You'll have to download it and install it as you do any other win app, and that is it.
God bless you!
33 • #31: Mandriva will NOT be dead anytime soon (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-11 18:28:54 GMT from United States)
A pairof Russian companies poured 5 million euros into Mandriva. Companies don't make that kind of investment to pull the plug. Mandriva will not be dead anytime soon and anyone who follows the Cooker knows that development is continuing apace.
Mageia was forked from Mandriva by disgruntled former Mandriva employees. I don't blame them considering the history there. It appears they will go in one direction and Mandriva in another, yielding yet another choice in distros.
People have been proclaiming the death of Mandriva for a decade now. It still hasn't happened.
34 • @ #1 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 18:31:29 GMT from United States)
@ #1: Well it is Linux, and I think that when any Linux based OS is done right and advertises its self as Linux that it can only help in the general market. There may be a huge difference between the Linux you know and what you get with an Android phone, or or poorly done netbook for that matter, but then again Linux is a kernel and not an OS. When Android is done right and consumers are aware that it is indeed Linux then more people might realize just how versatile and useful a good Linux based OS can be. If an OS with the Linux kernel does well then it can only help Linux and open source spread, and frankly it doesn't matter if the GNU tools that have been used to build most server and desktop Linux systems are used or not so long as it helps spread and improve the software.
35 • #30: Nouveau (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-11 18:31:43 GMT from United States)
Nouveau is very much a work in progress. It isn't so much buggy as not ready yet. In that sense there is ongoing work and I believe it will get better. The incomplete or unready state is why Slackware stuck with nv and disabled Nouveau in 13.1. I personally think Patrick Volkerding made absolutely the right decision in doing that.
My advice: go ahead with your install but boot into the CLI. Then install the proprietary nVidea driver from their website and everything will work in any of the distros you mention. The only thing that really doesn't work is the live CD.
36 • ZevenOS-Neptune 1.9 (by harjim on 2010-10-11 18:36:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Have been testing Neptune 1.9 which seems an excellent distro. However when making adjustments to settings authorisation is required. Can any one tell me which username and password is wanted.
37 • SSDs (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 18:45:58 GMT from United States)
An SSD is the highest-impact speed improvement that can be made for $100. Those who like a light and quick desktop feel should already have one.
It's my understanding that ext4 is the only Linux file system that fully supports TRIM ("discard" option). If that is correct, then ext4 is the clear choice for those who like easy solutions.
Ext4 is not perfect. It's not fully supported by some developers. It's my understanding that partimage does not support ext4.
Regardless of the file system, on desktop Linux flavors there may be issues with regard to system writes every few seconds. The following command appears to cut writes to my boot drive... "hal-disable-polling --device /dev/cdrom"... but I've just begun experimenting. (iotop is not in the respository and iostat gives no process detail)
Similar to SSDs, the new Intel I-series CPUs offer high performance on a per watt basis. The combination of the SSD & I-3 offers reasonable speed and light weight - so light that it can be powered easily by a fanless PSU (such as the PicoPSU). There's little heat. You get speed and silence. (my system generally draws 50 to 85 watts, 48 at the moment).
But some Linux distros have issues with the I-series CPUs, or at least with 3D graphics. An important advantage of the I-series CPU is the onboard graphics. A separate GPU is not needed. Unfortunately, I-series 3D graphics doesn't always work with 2.6.33 (e.g. PCLOS, an otherwise outstanding OS).
So, the the Linux user who wants a mid-priced, quiet but speedy system that isn't already obsolete has to do some serious homework and sort through conflicting reports and howtos. Desktop users with no expertise or inclination to bury him/herself in technical documentation need to be prepared for a series of frustrating evenings.
Anyway, if you have an SSD then the "discard" option is an easy way to implement TRIM, and ext4 is probably the logical choice for many.
38 • Not the first Android netbook (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-11 18:47:24 GMT from United States)
A number of Asian companies have released low end netbooks that sell for around US $100-$200 that run Android and they were way ahead of Acer. Some examples:
SkyTone Alpha 9000: http://www.skytone.net.cn/en/products.php?bigclass=13&smallclass=49&show_type=1
HiVision PWS700CA: http://www.linux-netbook.com/hivision-pws700ca
Wirelession W2070A: http://www.e-lectiostore.com/store.html
Toshiba also announced an Android netbook in July. You'll find it at the very bottom of their Japanese page after all the Windows systems: http://dynabook.com/pc/catalog/index_j.htm?utm_source=dynabook_top&utm_medium=topics&utm_campaign=catalog
So, no, the Acer system was not first. It also appears to have been rushed to market, hence the buggy mess Jesse encountered
39 • A pair of Russian companies poured 5 billion euros into Mandriva. (by Wheresmymoney on 2010-10-11 18:53:45 GMT from United States)
Where did you see this?
40 • post 33 (by Jon Thomsen on 2010-10-11 18:59:31 GMT from United States)
5 MILLION Euros --- not 5 billion.
Accuracy and proofreading are your friends.
41 • Opensuse and synaptic (by Frank on 2010-10-11 19:20:52 GMT from United States)
Opensuse is a great OS the only problem that I had and the only reason why i do Not use it is the software installer....is horrible I wish they would Use Synaptic
42 • SSD's work for non-geeks (by Alameda-Ted on 2010-10-11 19:45:25 GMT from United States)
I switched over to Ubuntu about a year ago using a 40 gig SSD and a 500 gig internal hd. Ubuntu does not allow me to use my 500g internal hd but it allows me to use a 500g usb hd. It is not what I envisioned but it works for me.
I read the note with interest but I am not going to mess with a good thing. My system works well enough for me. I like to tinker with older machines but I don't want spend money on another SSD just to tinker.
Thanks for the article.
43 • #39, #40: Mandriva buyout (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-11 19:58:44 GMT from United States)
#39: It's 5 million euros with an m. The original sources were mostly in Russian. Here is the article with links: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/controlling-interest-in-mandri.html
#40: I am so glad you never ever make errors. Unfortunately I am not perfect like you.
44 • Debian (by uz64 on 2010-10-11 20:08:39 GMT from United States)
Good to hear about a possible Debian release by the end of this year--I've been anxious to see how it turns out. In fact, distro hopping on my newer machine lately, I decided just earlier today to try the latest Debian Testing on it (daily netinst CD image, which was literally just released today). It's going to be a while since it's a netinst and my cable connection is a slower, cheaper one (comparable to DSL that I had once before for a short amount of time, actually), but I was surprised when the installer said that it recognized two network adapters (ethernet and wireless) and asked which one I wanted to set as default.
It's too early to see if the wireless card really does work (still installing...), but based on the fact that the installer detected it and asked if I wanted it default, chances seem good that wireless networking will work right from the start, which completely puts to rest all my worries.
45 • Re #30 Tim (by Glenn on 2010-10-11 20:17:37 GMT from Canada)
Try using bootparm nomodeset and see if that clears your flickering.
46 • Calculate Linux 10.9, a disappointment (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 20:20:03 GMT from Italy)
1)Much of their site is in Russian.
2)Their installer isn't very intuitive, on the contrary.
3)Installing GRUB is a pain, especially to the root partition (virtually impossible).
4)You would expect that a Gentoo derivative simplifies Gentoo, thus it has a GUI fronted to Emerge. No such thing.
47 • Ref#38 (by A.J. Foyt on 2010-10-11 20:25:45 GMT from United States)
"...So, no, the Acer system was not first. It also appears to have been rushed to market, hence the buggy mess Jesse encountered"
I think you got your people mixed up. Its Ladislav's Acer system and not Jesse's
"Feature Story (by Ladislav Bodnar)"
48 • #47 Correction to #38 (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-11 20:38:38 GMT from United States)
@A.J. You are correct. That should have referred to Ladislav, It's been kind of a crazy day here and it shows :(
49 • @ 30 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 21:29:22 GMT from United States)
So install the legacy driver for your card available from nvidia. Unlike amd, nvidia supports their customers.que silly flames about how non-open drivers eat children, etc.
50 • Run Maverick Netbook Edition without Unity? (by Rainforest-Rescue.org on 2010-10-11 22:05:06 GMT from Germany)
@21: Thanks for your help, Tom!
But I wanted to know if it is easily possible to use the Ubuntu Netbook Edition 10.10 with the old netbook-launcher/maximus interface instead of the Unity/Mutter interface.
I can't find a guide or PPA for it.
51 • The M and networking (by Barnabyh on 2010-10-11 23:18:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi Caitlyn, I think #40 was directed at comment #39 and not at you. Because you DID write it with an m in your first post, unless it's been edited since.
Is there gonna be a second part of your networking series any time soon? Last time it was discussed plenty of people here showed interest. I personally hope you'll do it.
Have a good day.
52 • post 51 (by Jon Thomsen on 2010-10-11 23:45:05 GMT from United States)
Post 40 was in reference to post 33.
It originally said BILLION.
Post 33 was edited ----- the B became an M.
53 • RE: #41 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-11 23:55:28 GMT from Italy)
I no longer use openSUSE, because of a lot of reasons, but package management is not one of them.
I don't know what is wrong with it, it is intuitive, with plenty of choices.
You can also "dist-upgrade" very easily with zypper from the CL:
#zypper dup (dist-upgrade)
Of course you can also "zypper install", zypper remove" "zypper ve" and so on.
54 • 10.10 Noveau (by azurehi on 2010-10-12 00:11:09 GMT from United States)
I have issues similar to #30. I do not know how to use a CLI but did come across this ubuntu forum link that might help...haven't tried it yet:
55 • DWW Review (by Landor on 2010-10-12 01:18:56 GMT from Canada)
It's always good to see you writing, Ladislav. I was surprised though to see that you hadn't really done any research regarding the Acer and its implementation of Android prior to buying it, unless I'm mistaken.
I don't really hold too much stock in an Android solution for a netbook. I don't really find it a viable solution for true mobile computing. That could change though. I actually prefer having Linux on a system where I could add/change/remove anything as I see fit, to fit with my needs. I probably wouldn't even give a piece of hardware with Android as the OS a consideration.
Since we're in the last leg of the year and the New Year is fast approaching, have you given any thought to what you'll right for the first issue this year coming, if you are indeed going to be the author of the first issue? I'd like to see a synopsis of the year from your perspective. I know you did follow some of the development builds of various distributions, I don't know if you still do. Maybe something touch on that. But also, it would be nice to see a breakdown of visitors from other countries again, as a comparison to when you've done it before. Give us a look at interest from other parts of the world.
Great DWW again this week. I have more to say about some of it, but I'll get to that later. :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
56 • @35,45,49: Nouveau/Geforce4MX 440 (by Tim on 2010-10-12 01:20:46 GMT from Germany)
There is another "bad" news for Ubuntu 10.10 users of Geforce4MX graphics chips: The NVidia legacy driver (version 96.43.xx for Geforce4MX) does not work with Ubuntu 10.10 at the moment. Ubuntu 10.10 ships with xserver 1.9, but according to this posting by NVidia's Aaron Plattner, the 96.43.xx legacy driver does not support xserver 1.9 and 1.8:
"I haven't forgotten about 96.43.*, I just haven't had much time to work on it lately. I'm hoping to get started on xserver 1.8 support soon, and xserver 1.9 support shortly thereafter."
So, nouveau and nvidia will not work with my Geforce4MX chip, nv or vesa would be the only choice.
With nomodeset there is no screen flickering anymore, I see a purple picture with "Ubuntu 10.10" in white letters on it and nothing else. After this nothing happens, xorg does not even start.
57 • Duhhh - Android Was Not Intended for Big Screens/PC's (by RO on 2010-10-12 01:53:51 GMT from United States)
Google has made it quite clear that Android was meant to be a PHONE OS, and it works well for that platform (if you like its UI and Google dependency, which I do not). The Marketplace is very much tied to users identified via their mobile phone account, so all these "bootlegs" of Android to tablets, netbooks, notebooks, etc are not supposed to work with the Marketplace - they do not have that magic phone entry ticket. There are hacks involving using an Id from a phone or even the SDK, but those are just workarounds.
Now I have been having some fun with a Pandigital Novel "ereader" that is really an Android 2.0 7-inch touchscnreen tablet packaged as a Barnes & Noble-oriented ereader with some extra Android goodies that work reasonably well in that context (Webkit browser, calendar, clock, music player etc), but it is missing much of the phone features that play to Android's strengths - i.e. 3g network, GPS, call/contact management, etc. This is to be expected. Now the wizards at slatedroid.com have come up with a range of Android hacks from the simple to the brain transplant level, and that is fine for those who like to hack with that stuff (I do just enough to get a few more functions such as Borders and Amazon ebooks, but am not diving into the "deep end").
The point is that Android is being pushed to its limits, and then some, with a 7-inch tablet (800x600 resolution unlike most of the 80x480 movie viewer wannabe's, thank goodness, since that is much better for reading ebooks). A non-touch, 10-inch screen, with no phone or GPS hardware on X86 architecture (I would think not being an ARM processor is another design restriction?) is just a ridiculous platform for Android - what did you expect?
What's the problem with a netbook-oriented Linux distro that has been refined these last few years to perform well for that kind of platform? Match the tool to the job, and you are much more likely to be satisfied.
58 • Followup 44 - Debian (by uz64 on 2010-10-12 03:13:19 GMT from United States)
Never mind--Debian is installed, and the final installation does *not* recognize the wireless chip. No idea why the installer pretends to know about it and act like it can set it up for use if it really doesn't. :(
59 • Show me the intelligence! (by Vishwanath on 2010-10-12 07:44:38 GMT from India)
In the review on the "First look at Acer Aspire One D255" with Android Ladislav Bodnar has this to say about proprietary software and trialware... "Why would anybody put up with this nonsense at a time when there are so many excellent operating systems available for free download is beyond me..."
I ask to show me the intelligence! Where is real intelligence?
Unix started life in Academics; today it is probably nowhere in academics... at least in India!
With Unix gone from Academics, I suspect this is the reason why colleges produce tech graduates who know nothing about the technology inside... they don't know how a compiler works, nor how it is inside an operating system. Most can't produce an executable without an IDE. I repeat... "show me the intelligence!"
I would like to hear about the adoption of Linux/ Unix in schools and colleges across the world. It is happening; but I guess it is too slow and I suspect it is too insignificant too. Schools in Europe have adopted Linux in a big way but I guess Asia is way behind.
60 • Intelligence (by Jesse on 2010-10-12 12:08:52 GMT from Canada)
>> "Unix started life in Academics; today it is probably nowhere in academics... at least in India!"
Actually, that's not true at all. I've personally dealt with a few universities in India which taught Linux/UNIX to their students and how to handle compiling from the command line, and how daemons work. The school I went to in Canada was about an even split between UNIX and Windows, which seems to be fairly common these days. Quite a few schools in the UK and the USA have Linux/UNIX programs, even in high school.
Personally I find the adoption tends to be fairly quiet, but if you actually talk to people at the schools, you'll often find they teach/support the UNIX family of operating systems.
61 • Missing the obvious (by bornagainpenguin on 2010-10-12 13:14:59 GMT from United States)
I don't understand the shock Ladislav seems to be displaying over the way Acer forces you to boot into Windows XP and accept the license agreements before allowing the user to see the Android OS. I thought it quite obvious that doing things this way was Acer's way of forcing the Microsoft Tax on the user and avoiding having to give a refund as per the EULA upon rejection of the EULA. If it were possible to see the Android system before using Windows XP how many of the kinds of geeks who would be interested in a dual-booting Android system would bother with Windows?
That's something that would effect the company's bottom line and therefore not to be allowed!
PS: Also greetz to RO and anyone else from the Slatedroid community!
As someone else who owns a Pandigital Novel and has come to love Android by using it in its unlocked form I just have to say that any attempts to make an Android system without touch screen capabilities is a waste of time. Ditto for the various issues one will encounter in the Market with apps that misdetect or make bad assumptions about screen size. You CAN use Android on a tablet or a bigger screen, but it requires patience and careful testing to see which apps will work and which ones won't. Hardly the smooth experience Google hopes to deliver, hence why they insist on customers waiting until a later release when they have those structures in place...
62 • About Windows XP in Taipei(?) (by Steve Lange on 2010-10-12 14:28:42 GMT from United States)
Loved L. Bodnar's article on the dual boot(Android/Windows XP) Acer Aspire One D255 Netbook in this issue of DWW. But I am left with a couple of intriguing questions.
To start with, Microsoft Windows is the standard-issue operating system and it is what the vast majority of users are using here in the United States, for better or for worse. For the record, while I mainly use Ubuntu Linux these days, I am not really a Linux purist and I have a desktop machine on my SOHO-LAN running Windows 7. I have a Canon printer for which I cannot get Linux drivers, among other things. Most "folks" here in Oregon(and the rest of the USA) "trust"(!?) Microsoft Windows and are familiar with it. Why do folks here still use Windows when there are better(and free!) alternatives, maybe they are less oriented towards putting in some time and work. For them, they buy a home or office computer to do specific jobs and they may simply accept some deficiencies which I do not.
Frankly, it took me a while and some time to become comfortable with Linux--even Ubuntu Linux.
Next, Mr Bodnar talked about buying the Acer netbook with Windows XP in Taipei, Taiwan. I am intrigued, but "foggy" on the details. I would like to know a little more about the status of Microsoft Windows XP in the Taiwan "market".
To start with, is the Microsoft EULA enforced in Taiwan anyway?
Windows XP is not being sold in this country(the USA) that I know of in 2010. Insofar as I know, you cannot currently buy a new computer with Windows XP(or Windows Vista, for that matter). You cannot buy a Windows XP install disk through the usual retail channels, insofar as I know.
On the other hand, you can buy a Windows XP install disk(CD-ROM and/or DVD) on EBay and retrofit it(Windows XP), although it might not be "street legal". If it isn't, then you will run afoul of the "Software Activation" goblin. This happened to me back in April, although I must say that the vendor generously refunded the purchase price on being informed of my woes.
63 • Ubuntu 10.10 (by Carl Smuck on 2010-10-12 15:08:21 GMT from United States)
I tried upgrading my Zorin OS 3.0 to Ubuntu 10.10 on my desktop and it worked fine except for one thing. The wireless adapter that was working just great in Zorin OS 3.0 based on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS would not work in Ubuntu 10.10. The intellinet wireless G USB adapter which has a ralink chipset had really good support under Linux in the past whether it be Fedora, Ubuntu, Sabayon or Mandriva. Wireless networking support has really gone downhill lately for pretty much all of the major Linux distributions. Even OpenSuse is having trouble.
64 • "instant-on" disappointment (by klu9 on 2010-10-12 16:23:40 GMT from Mexico)
disappointing to hear about Acer's poor implementation of Android.
More disappointing to hear they market it as an "instant-on" alternative OS, and hear that other users are having problems with "instant-on" alternative Linux OSes (like expressgate).
It's been mentioned that "instant-on" OSes could be a useful Trojan horse for Linux/FLOSS operating systems, weaning people off the default MS. But bad experiences like these will do FLOSS no favours.
65 • and the other Google OS? (by klu9 on 2010-10-12 16:24:56 GMT from Mexico)
and whatever happened to ChromeOS, Google's netbook-specific operating system?
66 • first impressions (by Josh on 2010-10-12 17:59:25 GMT from United States)
A new Debian release would be a nice christmas present lol.
Good review Ladislav, unfortunate to hear that Acer is painting Android and Linux in such a bad light. They could have used something easier for their devs to understand or comprehend, like one of the netbook distros. (I never liked acer anyway, except in the case of monitors)
In the case of first impressions, that would be bad for a new convert to think of Acer's implementation as what Linux is like. Hopefully, they would be smart enough to know its a phone OS. Though, first impressions do say much even if they are completely wrong. Just think if someone who never had windows (hard to believe right) was running linux or OSX and was shown a copy of windows 98 instead of XP or 7. Wouldn't that turn them off to windows?
67 • Android on netbooks (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-12 19:43:14 GMT from United States)
I agree with the comments klu9 made in #64. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
A lot of people have commented that Android isn't suitable for a netbook without a touchscreen. Like it or not those devices are proliferating. Here in the U.S. K-Mart, a big box discount retailer, is selling el cheapo low end Augen netbooks with Android and ARM processors. With a starting price of $109 (7" screen, 400MHz processor) and a more promising looking unit at $189 (10.1"screen, 800MHz processor) I expect they will sell quite a few. They also have Android based tablets which are very inexpensive.
How much this effects Linux as a whole will depend on whether people make the association between Android and Linux and whether or not their experience is a positive one.
I hope to have a couple of units to review that will be in various stores for the holidays. On one hand I'm excited to see how well the new ARM-powered toys really work. OTOH, I do have some trepidation about Android as a desktop/netbook OS.
68 • Security again (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-12 20:15:57 GMT from United States)
Some of you may have read about the latest Firefox vulnerability: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Trojan-forces-Firefox-to-secretly-store-passwords-1106100.html This trojan does affect Linux only if you are logged in as root. If you are logged in as an unprivileged user it does not work and can do you no harm. This is a perfect example of why I and others say over and over again not to login as root routinely.
I spent a lot of time today helping a client recover from a security incident earlier in the morning. The pain, in many ways, was self inflicted: a firewall that was pretty much wide open, security recommendations made months ago ignored, a notification that the servers had been scanned/probed in depth just 36 hours earlier was not even acknowledged. Nobody believes security is going to bite them you know where until it does. Suddenly long ignored suggestions are being implemented urgently to prevent a repeat of this morning's outage.
In this day and age where home users have constant broadband connections and home desktops and laptops that are more powerful than servers from a few years ago an ordinary home system can be a juicy target. A lot of security is really just common sense. None of it is that hard to implement, as in anyone reading this can do it quickly and be done with it.
A lot of popular distros have GUI tools that do a very decent job with firewall configuration for a typical home or small office system. Read, click the choices that make sense and you are probably done. Many have similar tools to parse through your logs (you do have logging turned on, right?) and warn if something is unusual. It's not rocket science. It doesn't take a PhD. It doesn't take any special training.
Remember, you are not being paranoid when someone is really out to get you :)
69 • ubuntu overdose (by imnotrich on 2010-10-13 02:04:43 GMT from Mexico)
I agree with the suggestion that we have a different tab for Ubuntu official and non official Ubuntu releases. Frankly I began to lose respect for Ubuntu when they adopted a half baked implementation of Pulse Audio around version 9. Worse yet, the 9's and 10's seemed to have abandoned support for the ATI, NVIDIA and Intel video cards that I have (on three different systems). You'd think video cards and sound cards are kinda important, certainly more important than features that (except maybe for a handful of teenagers) nobody wants such as Gwibber. SO...when the head Ubunut decides to focus on stability and functionality maybe I'll give Ubuntu another look but until then - Ubuntu doesn't deserve any space on distrowatch's front page.
10.04 is Ubuntu's Windows ME.
10.10 is Ubuntu's Vista
70 • Sony Vaio ? (by Tom on 2010-10-13 11:27:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
HI :) Can anyone remember an article claiming that Sony bios upgrades for 1 of their product lines blocks any non-Windows from being booted up on the machine? Can anyone remember if a Sony Vaio VGC-LM1M CEK? So far my plan is to just appear with a couple of LiveCds and see how it goes. If anything works then i might be able to see how bad the hard-drive is.
Regards from Tom :)
71 • UNR interface @50 Rainforest (by Tom on 2010-10-13 11:33:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :) It sounds as though you have already tried Synaptic or command-line to install the other type of interface and tried the options in "Switch User"? Have you tried installing something like Lxde just to see if you can switch between interfaces? I would also try asking in
For something like that i would try installing a 2nd instance of UNR so that you can tweak one until it falls over but still be able to boot into the other. At work i have installed Ubuntu onto an 8Gb Usb-stick as a full install so i get all my programs and desktop no matter which desk i get for the day.
Regards from Tom :)
72 • ZevenOS 1.9 "Neptune" (by putera on 2010-10-13 12:27:07 GMT from Malaysia)
Dolphin fail to mount another partition, Neptune installer not work.
73 • Good article (by keith on 2010-10-13 13:46:44 GMT from United States)
I benefited much from your article. Like you I have also been disappointed by 'journeys' I've taken. I appreciate you explaining the various pitfalls you encountered along the way. Also thanks for a terrific web site. This is one of my favorite web sites. Later dude...your friend in Ohio....Keith
74 • +1 @73 Keith (by Tom on 2010-10-13 14:07:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yup, apart from the disappointing journeys part but i was guided through that stage by DW thankfully.
Definitely a +1, thanks Ladislav Bodnar, Caitlyn Martin, Jesse Smith and i'm sure i am missing someone out here, oh and the people in the comments section.
75 • SSD File System (by ljfnord on 2010-10-13 14:17:41 GMT from United States)
Why doesn't anyone test out JFS on an SSD? I've been using it on my SATA hard drives for a couple of years with great reliability. Would it be a good choice for a file system on a 120GB SSD with a Sandforce controller (like G.Skill's Phoenix Pro)?
76 • Pinguy Os ia an excellent GNU/Linux+codecs package (by srinivas. on 2010-10-13 15:09:10 GMT from India)
I would recommend Pinguy Os to all the newbies and intermediate users of Ubuntu. It comes with majority of the software which users tend to install after their installation of vanilla ubuntu. I have recommended this distro to many of my friends who were first time users and they all were at home after showing that whatever they have to do regularly can be done with this "ready to go" distro.
Kudos to the developer and the GNU/Linux, GNU/Ubuntu, GNU/Debian community.
P.S: There is also ps3 media server installed which is useful if you have a PS3.
77 • Ubuntu Linux 10.10 (by Carl Smuck on 2010-10-13 15:22:05 GMT from United States)
I am trying the new Super OS based on Ubuntu 10.10 on an AMD Athlon 64 x2 desktop. I am using the 32 bit version and have the Trendnet wireless N pci card that has three antennas on the back of it. That card is very good for Linux. Has the Ralink 2860 chipset. I was able to get my brother laser printer to work with it after downloading and installing the correct drivers.
78 • SuperOS to take Mint's crown? (by mikkh on 2010-10-14 00:22:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ubuntu and it's many clones is usually anathema to me, but I have to check them out anyway, just so I can diss it on first hand knowledge !
Mint is the almost acceptable face of Ubuntu, but 'SuperOS' looks set to take over
The 'Ubuntu Tweak' tool is most welcome, but I still had to change the annoying left hand window buttons myself and ditch the extra panel before I was happy with it's looks
Not sure you need Firefox, Opera *and* Chrome, but it's nice to have the choice
The Richard Stallman devotees will be crying in their real ale at Adobe Flash, Sun Java, Real Player and Skype being pre-installed, but the rest of the more realistic world will be loving it.
It includes the pain free 'wubi' installer for nervous newbies and it's the one I'll recommend to first timers in the future.
Well done chaps, you might convert me yet
79 • E17 final may happen? (by RollMeAway on 2010-10-14 01:14:10 GMT from United States)
After 10 years of "alpha" releases, most of us had given up on Enlightenment becoming a serious desktop.
On Oct. 3rd the first "beta" release occurred. See news section:
I've read somewhere they target a "final" by the end of the year! Who would have thought?
Maybe someone will give a serious attempt at developing a full distro release featuring a usable E17 desktop.
Pinguy E17 Remix may be one of the first. Read the blog about it:
Of course E17 can be added to many existing distributions you already have installed.
See the download page on the enlightenment.org page. Talking svn release here.
80 • E17 final may happen? @79 (by Distrowatcher on 2010-10-14 02:43:59 GMT from United States)
I hope so, but would not count on it.
The best (and worst) distro to show off the Enlightenment desktop was Elive. But Their execution was seriously and still is flawed, but that is another issue (hidden charges for an install is dirty pool).
I really like the Enlightenment desktop, but being in Alpha/Beta for 10 years kind of makes one wonder.....
Keep your stick off of my ice.
81 • RE: Android/Linux & 79 (by Landor on 2010-10-14 03:39:16 GMT from Canada)
When I think of these instant-on secondary (keep that word in mind) operating systems, I think of something that is only a back-up, or for very basic tasks. That's exactly what they are advertised to be as well. To expect an implementation of one of them to be this great and complete alternative is completely unrealistic. Also, I read someone here that posted that they were considered a trojan to get Linux out there and spread the word. I don't know how true that is, but whomever came up with that idea obviously didn't understand the limitations of them, nor understood their intended function(s).
Also, I keep seeing a lot of people talking about how this instant on will bring a bad light to Linux. CM gets it right by saying it depends on who will even associate it with Linux, and the experience as well. Google is not broadcasting Android has a Linux kernel, nor are any companies that implement it. Anyone producing these devices that are using Android are only associating the system with Android, and sometimes Google. Linux is not the selling point at all, so I really fail to see how Android will have any bad influence on Linux except by techs that actually know it's in there.
I don't know if this has any bearing, but those are only the libraries that are going stable from what I read. I didn't see anything about the actual DE being completely stable, unless it is of course, and it has been libraries holding it back.
I've been hoping that it would go final, and I think I may attempt to use it solely on my netbook with Fedora 14 when it goes final. There's a great third party repository for E17 and Fedora maintained by a Professor I do believe.
Keep your stick on the ice...
82 • ... too eager and messed strategies? (by meant on 2010-10-14 12:20:32 GMT from Portugal)
.. for sure, google would like to see android playing the role of a a desktop parent OS for the already android equipped mobile devices ... reminds me of microsoft and apple ... what would come next? ... a business server for both? .. or would the gogle servers play that role? .. too messy ... but low cost ...
83 • to #17 restoring previous version of Ubuntu Netbook (by RayRay on 2010-10-14 17:45:37 GMT from United States)
I hope that I'm not being redundant but I'm short on time.
If you go to to synaptic you can install the two packages that contain EFL. Log out and back in to 2D netbook.
You should be back to the previous version of Netbook.
Felcidades Chile !!
Merecen las buenas noticias, un gran trabajo por una gran nacion.
84 • @#81 (by klu9 on 2010-10-14 18:02:22 GMT from Mexico)
I was the one who brought up "instant-on OSes as Trojan horse".
Yes these OSes are limited compared to full OSes. But think of some of the things they do allow: web browsing, music and video, im, e-mail, and even Skype. For a lot of people, that's the majority of what they do on a personal computer.
So instant-on might work as a Trojan horse against (not a complete substitute for) Windows because it gives people the opportunity to actually see that Windows isn't necessary. And that it's slow. It shows them they really could survive outide the world of Windows.
It's not that Splashtop etc will replace Windows, but that it might get people to open their minds to the possibility of using something other than Windows, which is half the battle.
85 • Editing @33 (by forlin on 2010-10-14 18:13:09 GMT from Portugal)
I was just reading the DWW comments when I went through all the mess at posts @33, 39, 40, 43, 51 and 52. Although confident that with this note I'll appear as the bad guy, I can't avoid to mention that for the sake of clarity, it would have been more efficient to mention inside comment 33 that it was edited afterwords, with a reference to the reason for editing it. As readers cannot edit their own comments, but the editors can, all that reading is a non sense, for those who don't know the editor's names.
86 • Security and stuff (by davemc on 2010-10-14 18:41:58 GMT from United States)
Caitlyn, I agree. Fortunately for the vast majority of new users, they wont have to worry about that whole root as user foolishness because there is no root account in Ubuntu or Mint. There is sudo, and users can get into trouble with that as well, so vigilance must never cease. I have seen some new users run Firefox from command line with sudo because they could not get it to launch from the menu, which is a stupid thing to do, but there it is and it does happen when you don't know any better.
I was somewhat surprised by many of the reviews over U/K/Xubuntu 10.10. I actually found these latest Canonical incarnations radically different in many ways, starting with boot times, which I swear on my rig running Kubuntu 10.04 currently, the 10.10 boot times were tremendously fast. I am talking a huge leap kinda fast. I clocked my heavily modified 10.04 install at a 22 second boot, and my new 10.10 install at an 8 second boot. Yea, I hit enter at GRUB and 8 seconds later I am staring at KDM. None of the reviews mention this! Granted, it depends on your machine, but still, my rig is not that special and should be the norm these days for most Desktop users. Also, the installer has been radically redesigned and is actually quite intuitive and much simpler. The system now just feel much more MAC-like than ever before in all manner of user friendly ways that I cant begin to describe, but there is a definite and distinct difference between 10.10 and 10.04 in that arena. In addition, it is rock stable for me, and that is actually a first. All new Ubuntu releases have always given me fits of issues here and there that I have to fix, but not this time. There should be no doubt that 10.10 is actually the best ever release from Canonical for new users, and a boring one for old timers due to stability and user friendly tweaks, at least from my experience and that of my family.
87 • #86: Root account (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-14 19:05:59 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu and MInt do have a root account. All Linux distros do. What they do is disable the ability to login as root from the GUI. It can be enabled but, of course, most new users would not know how.
We have had people on here say they run as root routinely and there are distros that run as root always, as in there is no user account system, or default to logging in as root, hence my comment.
88 • Ubuntu 10.10 (by David on 2010-10-14 19:47:28 GMT from United States)
I installed 10.10 the evening of the final release (in the US) and it has already frozen on me four times. This is something I would expect from Bill Gates, not Canonical and the Ubuntu team.
Every time I've been doing different but very basic activities. Twice I was in the middle of a Google image search, this past time I was browsing forums while listening to Pandora, and the other time I was checking email in Thunderbird.
My laptop is an HP EliteBook 8530W. Hardware includes:
* T9600: 2.8GHz Wolfdale
* 2 x 2 GB DDR2 800
* 320 GB 7200RPM Western Digital
* Quadro 770m
By "frozen" I mean completely locked up. I can not switch to a non-graphical user, I can not move the mouse, I can not alt + f4 anything.
I definitely won't be deleting my 10.04 partition til this is fixed.
89 • Re:88, Ubuntu freeze (by Caraibes on 2010-10-14 21:23:52 GMT from Dominican Republic)
David, I had that issue in the past, with *Buntus 8.x & 9.x...
Would freeze out of the blue, quite often...
That was until I wiped it all and installed Windows 7, on the very same hardware... Never had a single freeze... It´s been a year now...
I really hate to say it on a Linux website, after 5 years of using Linux only...
Windows 7 has been more stable than any other distros (yes, that is CentOS, Debian stable, Ubuntu LTS etc...)
Don´t hold your breath for such a bug fix in Ubuntu... Won´t happen...
90 • re#88,89 (by hab on 2010-10-14 21:55:53 GMT from Canada)
I think it is fair to say that in the desktop/server realm Linux reigns supreme for things like hardware support. It is beyond reproach, except, perhaps for yesterdays, or last weeks latest greatest hardware thingee. Support for last month's is prolly there by now. :)
Laptops. unfortunately, not nearly so much. If you understand hardware you would realize why this is. And it is most definitely not due to devs being lazy or some such nonsense. As i have stated before in terms of hardware laptops are a total PITA and it doesn't look like this will change any time soon.
Blaming Linux for others shortcomings really just betrays your own lack of understanding of the situation.
91 • Ubuntu mirrors (by rbmj on 2010-10-14 22:43:35 GMT from United States)
Hey, has anyone noticed that ubuntu's default download link is as slow as a rock? I didn't get a decent connection speed until i looked around the site to find a better mirror- which would not have occurred to a lot of ubuntu's target audience (no, I'm not trying to be elitist). Shouldn't ubuntu be trying to give new users a better first impression than redirecting users to a mirror that is 50 times (2 mins vs ~90 mins) slower than it needs to be?
Also, about security... ubuntu's sudo (at least last time i checked) allows a user to sudo su. Isn't the whole point of sudo to *limit* such commands?
92 • #91 sudo and su (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-10-14 23:15:37 GMT from United States)
@rbmj: No, that isn't the purpose of sudo. Indeed, some scripts and GUI programs will work perfectly fine from a root shell but not with sudo. Sometimes sudo -s or sudo su - is really, really important.
Using sudo to get to a root shell only requires the user password. It doesn't require knowledge of the root password. Sudo logs when it is used (su does as well) but when you use sudo to prefix individual commands then the individual commands get logged.
The main reason for sudo is that it allows a limited subset of root privileges to be parsed out to either groups or individual users rather than giving out G-d like system powers. That is very useful in any multiuser environment. Commands can also be broken into groups to make sudo administration easier.
93 • RE: 84 - 88/89/90 (by Landor on 2010-10-15 00:12:32 GMT from Canada)
I still believe you, or anyone else for that matter, are being far too generous in believing it is a viable alternative that represents Linux and Freedom from a closed source operating system.
The reason being, although you state that they can and do have a lot of the more generally used applications, the whole desktop/interface is usually stripped down and far from on par with anything that a normal user would be happy to use daily. We are talking normal users here as well. Also, in the respect of a normal user, most really are not interested in an alternative, they're far more interested in what they know, and feel comfortable using. The instant access to an operating system that is stripped down and basic in my personal opinion is an extremely niche audience, far more so than even Linux would be considered. I still can't see the logic behind it as a means to further bring people over to Linux. Also, in the way of say expressgate, would the average computer user even know it was powered by Linux, let alone what Linux is, or represents?
I have to agree with hab here, and in regard to 88's problem, that makes me think of a video card issue. If you installed the NVIDIA binary, then, well, that's basically that, no real support there. Did you try burning the iso again, maybe at s slower speed, and reinstalling? In some cases this is a common factor for various problems, and something that should be ruled out.
Keep your stick on the ice...
94 • @89 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-15 00:49:57 GMT from United States)
I have been consistently running Debian Stable for generations (of Debian,since Potato).
As long as I use Stable, I do not get any O.S. crashes or freezes (ZERO).
When I venture out to Testing, then as might be expected the system is less than stable and crashes or freezes sometimes occur.
Note that as time goes on not only does Debian change versions, I too use different hardware, and in that time frame any stability problems with Stable, I have tracked down to my own faulty (sometimes hard to find intermittent) hardware.
Replace the bad parts with the same but good parts and the problems go away.
Also note that my Debian Stable desktop has always been Window Maker.
There has been hardware from Pentium One to Athalon CPUs.
I personally have not seen the stability problems you mention giving Linux a poor image on stability.
I have however been witness to friends, strangers and our work Windows machines which certainly do have stability problems.
It simply amazes me when someone tells me their Win box is totally messed up, usually owned by evil from the net or somewhere.
I will admit that probably over 90 percent of all those Win users I have known or met don't really understand what they own, or how to take care of it; and probably don't want to learn or be educated either. (I have tried...)
Sorry to hear that your Linux experiences were so poor and hope you do better in the future, good luck with Win7.
95 • aargh (by Tom on 2010-10-15 09:38:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
I get no chance to read the articles until the end of the week and by then i just agree (or dis) with the various comments.
I just noticed the "android is buggy" which is no surprise but can't wait until later today or tomorrow when i get a chance to read. The articles look like crucial reading this week. All very frustrating.
Ubuntu mirrors slow in the week of their newest release!! Gosh! Shock! Stupidly i tried to download something from one of their older releases repos on the 10-10-2010 grrrr.
Thanks and regards from Tom :)
96 • #92 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-15 13:30:13 GMT from Canada)
Sometimes sudo -s or sudo su - is really, really important.
Did a google search and failed to find anything about these variations
A little more information please
97 • #96 (by Anonymous on 2010-10-15 13:35:30 GMT from Canada)
please ignore post 96
searched wrong term
98 • Slow Ubuntu download (by Fox on 2010-10-15 16:14:40 GMT from Canada)
I experienced the same when I went to download Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook Edition on the day of release. However, I found that stopping the download and starting over again really solved the problem. I don't know whether that moved me to another source or just solved a flaky connection.
99 • My 2 cents (by Anonymous on 2010-10-15 16:32:26 GMT from United States)
On Xubuntu, the issues I had was the installer was a memory pig and the result was slow opening apps after the HD install, it was as slow as running the live CD. My experience with the video drivers was it would work but when it would go to sleep or the screen saver would kick in it would hang, black screen or get stuck with white lines. Get it all sorted out by running with a different lower resolution or using the x-org driver after a reboot it would insist on going back to the way it was or after a symantic upgrade go back to being messed up again.
On Android, the apps are swell but the phone software bites. The bluetooth has to be paired all the time. The apps have to be running and set up every time you use it in advance to work (voice dial etc). Calls don't hang up unless the other party hangs up. Apps don't stay running after the screen goes dark or a phone call is received. The procedure to wake the phone when you receive a call hangs up the call if it is not done in the right sequence. To do voice mail you have to slide out the key pad to press 1 etc to get new messages is a pain. Just a general PIA to use it as a phone, it is great to run apps but the phone part is the worst part that leaves me with a bad taste. It feels so added on, the parts do not work together well. You can't even have more than one ring tone loaded at a time or keep the speaker phone on between calls. Forget about using the GPS in the car and bluetooth phone call at the same time. These things are more dangerous driving hands free than my old phone with a corded headset that I used to leave un-plugged because it would not ring with the headset plugged in.
100 • #72 Zevonos installer (by Rick on 2010-10-16 01:29:10 GMT from United States)
It's a known bug. Open a terminal and type kdesudo neptune-installer
101 • Ubuntu (by Baul on 2010-10-16 01:30:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Personally - I did the whole up-grade thing from 10.04 to 10.10 - every thing went smooth apart from one breakage half way through due to an upgrade in the X11 - after which I was able to go online and get a sulution to the problem.
Some people say the O/S bugs are not sorted out - others say the six month realise dates are too soon and not enough new radical features are introduced.
Whatever - I like ubuntu (and I have tried many other distros) - It does what is says - which is to give a free O/S - twice a year at present that I enjoy using. - (Thank you developers) !
It is a solid product now - and should be shown some repect for getting there - and also breaking down barriers in a global market - which is mostly proprietary and happy to give shit to people.
102 • 10.10 (by mike on 2010-10-16 12:13:40 GMT from Canada)
gets 12/10 from me! havent tried on my x200 yet, but it installed great on my old r32, stable as a rock, 10.04 crashed a lot
103 • 1% market share? Not! (by Ricardo on 2010-10-16 13:40:20 GMT from Argentina)
It might be a bit late for people reading this DWW to notice my post, but maybe Ladislav, Jesse or someone else from Distrowatch can promote this site in the next weekly:
They're trying to count the number of GNU/Linux desktops around the globe to finally erradicate (I hope!) the 1% desktop market share.
Also, ZevenOS looks really nice and very interesting, I'll give it a try.
104 • SSD Filesystem (by Anonymous on 2010-10-16 20:16:06 GMT from Canada)
I've been using an OCX SSD for 2 years with no indication of slowdown. Great product, *extremely* fast and I can only imagine they're getting better. I've used ext3 and more recently ext4, both with Debian installer defaults plus the noatime option. I also chose to use no swap partition, but in fact I wasn't using swap before the SSD was installed because it just never got used with the amount of system memory I've had (2GB). But if you have a laptop you should keep swap just so you can hibernate the thing.
I'm surprised no one mentioned BTRFS as an option for SSD's. That filesystem is toted as the next generation Linux filesystem and even has SSD-specific options. I'm going to wait a bit longer before swithing to it though, as it is still under fairly heavy development afaik.
105 • FSF-endorsed hardware (by Ralph on 2010-10-16 20:19:20 GMT from Canada)
Here is a link some readers might find interesting:
The FSF is planning on endorsing all sorts of computer hardware and they would like feedback on the criteria they are planning on employing for the certification....
106 • Linux and hardware and stuff! (by hab on 2010-10-16 23:42:38 GMT from Canada)
Ok, my Linksys WRT54G v2.0 running dd-wrt sp24 packed it in progressively over the last few days! First it dropped the wan connection, a day later it dropped the lan connections and a little later wireless went south. Front panel lights appear to indicate the box is functioning correctly, power supply tests ok for output. Just no lan or wireless access to the box. Reset did not work. Puzzling! Further investigation required!
Anyhow i had recently picked up a Comstar wa-6202-v2 wireless n router for somewhat less than 5$, used. I pressed it into service and i'm impressed. The box is made in Taiwan by CC&C and is running............. Linux! Now it is only a 2meg box but it is quite usable and it has handily replaced the problematic 8(16?) meg Linksys. The problem seems to be that CC&C has not released source as yet! I believe a word to the FSF might be in order.
In any event these boxes are available with a compatible USB wireless adapter
for around 15$ online and make for a really cheap wireless solution.
107 • RE: 106 (by Landor on 2010-10-17 02:10:52 GMT from Canada)
It's funny that you brought this up as I think I've found a solution to my router/server needs. I'm probably going to be picking up an ASUS RT-N16. 533mhz CPU, 128mb RAM and 32mb ROM, DRAFT-N, 4x 10/100/1000 and 2 x USB. It's also supported by Tomato with I think it's called the "Teddy Bear" mod, or that's the guy's nickname that made the mod. :)
It's quite the powerhouse for a router and as I said, I think it fits my needs nicely. :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
108 • re#107 (by hab on 2010-10-17 03:30:04 GMT from Canada)
Looks like a nice bit of kit. although you can't plug a harddrive into it's USB ports. Not enough power on the bus.
Asus is usually very decent hardware so you can't really go wrong there.
I must admit a bit of amusement reading about the apparently hopelessly buggy factory firmware.
Kind of an inversion of the MS situation. In that they (MS) are, ostensibly a software company (an inept one perhaps, from my perspective) that does pretty decent hardware. Mice, keyboards and such!
OTOH here we have Asus, a quite competent hardware company, doing really crappy software. Maybe a yin to a yang! Go figure!
On the firmware issue, DD-WRT would work adequately. There is also, i believe an open wrt and of course tomato. I only recommend DD-WRT because i find it quite flexible in my application.
If the router/ap meets your needs, might be one of the better (hundred bucks, or so) purchases you've made.:)
Oh by the way the Linksys is not dead. I opened the box just to check on the internal player's physical well being,and no burning signs. broken traces or odd odors of any kind. I did a hard reset and lo and behold it came back up.
There is hope!
109 • Why hasn't Linux made an impact in China? (by He Ping Li on 2010-10-17 12:36:07 GMT from China)
Could someone explain why Linux has not become popular in China?
110 • re#109 (by hab on 2010-10-17 16:32:11 GMT from Canada)
Probably for the same reasons that is not wildly popular in N. America, S. America and Europe or anywhere else that i am aware of!
I put it down to user apathy, inertia, willingness to pay significant chunks of cash to use their? computer and willingness to believe everything their software purveyor tells them.
Too bad, so sad!
111 • Linux popularity in China (by imnotrich on 2010-10-17 20:05:14 GMT from Mexico)
I would think the proliferation of pirated copies of Windows OS's in many third world countries has an adverse impact on Linux adoption. Another factor, at least in China is that the government keeps close watch on internet usage. Many sites are blocked outright by the "great firewall."
But also people attempting to run Linux in China would likely get extra scrutiny because the censors must be wondering, what's this Linux user trying to hide etc etc.
Don't forget issues with installs. Not everybody has two or more computes on their home network, so if they've wiped the hard drive of one and the install fails they are "stranded" with no access to the internet and thus, no way to seek tech support.
Another reason, which would seem to apply world wide is that there is no one Linux Distro that "just works" with the huge variety of hardware that Windows works with. Sure, this is a function of market share and the willingness of manufacturers to support Linux but I think it's a fair statement that adoption of Linux hinges on hardware support. Hardware support has got to be better. Plus, lately Ubuntu and derivatives (which pride themselves on being available in many languages) have fallen way short on hardware support, not supporting many modern vintage video cards from ATI, NVIDIA and Intel...not to mention other issues with basic stuff like sound, networking, printing/scanning blah blah blah.
Until hardware support is better, Linux will remain primarily a toy for hobbyists because most folks don't want to tinker for days with a fresh install to get everything working (and the few computers that come pre-installed with a dumbed down version of Linux don't count).
112 • Linux in China & other developing countries (by Barnabyh on 2010-10-17 22:15:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Travelling around West Africa I have only ever seen Windows installed in the road side shacks as well as better internet cafe's in city centres. Some of these are very good, comparable with easyInternet from the standard, but I would be surprised if their Windows was not pirated. The former ones for sure.
In South Africa there's a surprising prevalence of Ubuntu. I've seen it in Hotel receptions and lobbies and in most internet cafe's far outstripping Windows. I've only seen that one once actually, in one larger cafe because of the counting software.
I have never encountered Zencafe, which seems a tailored solution.
113 • @112 (by meanpt on 2010-10-18 08:17:05 GMT from Portugal)
The last time I ran a Zencafe update it became Zenwalk XFCE. Go figure such a "taylorism".
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