 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 361, 5 July 2010 |
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Welcome to this year's 27th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! A growing number of BSD developers seem to like the idea of creating an easy-to-use desktop variant of one of the big BSD operating systems. This week we'll take a first look at GhostBSD 1.0, a FreeBSD-based live CD that boots into a GNOME desktop. The review is preceded by a brief interview with the project's founder about the reasons behind creating the live CD. In the news section, Red Hat appoints Jared Smith as the new Fedora Project Leader, Mandriva continues its uncertain existence amid rumours of continued financial difficulties, and Linux Mint re-launches the idea of creating a Mint variant based on Debian. Also in this issue, a brief discussion about open source software licences and two interesting interviews with the developers of Slackware Linux and Peppermint OS. Finally, we are pleased to announce that the recipient of the June 2010 DistroWatch.com donation is the GCompris suite of educational software designed for young children. Happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (40MB) and MP3 (79MB) formats
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Taking a peek at GhostBSD 1.0
The PC-BSD project brings a user-friendly pre-configured KDE desktop to the FreeBSD community. Which is all well and good, but what if you're more of a GNOME person? Well, it turns out there is a project in the works for you too. The GhostBSD project is in its early stages, but it's paving the way for users who enjoy running GNOME on a FreeBSD base without any configuring or installing extra software. I had a chance to exchange emails with Eric Turgeon, the project's founder and lead developer.
* * * * *
DW: First, could you tell us what experience you had with BSD prior to starting GhostBSD? Did you develop with FreeBSD or other projects before creating your own BSD variant?
ET: I'd never developed anything before, I was just a normal FreeBSD GNOME user. I came from Ubuntu and, a part, by PC-BSD. I'm not a fan of KDE and had never found a BSD project with GNOME. I decide to do it, without any skill in programming at all. It took me eight months to do the first release based on the FreeSBIE system. The first live CD I made was buggy. I added, changed and removed a lot of the code from the FreeSBIE makefile for the beta and for the release. The GhostBSD makefile is made from 60% FreeSBIE code, 5% from the FreeBSD GNOME live CD code and 35% by myself. I have one year of programming skill, learned by myself.
DW: Did you have to make any changes to the underlying FreeBSD core in order to create the GNOME live environment?
ET: There are two major changes. The /usr file is zipped with uzip to make it fit on the CD and to the kernel I added all generic sound cards and removed the "DEBUG=-g" from it to make the kernel light. A couple of minor changes: I added some lines in the files to make all work well with GNOME.
DW: Does GhostBSD have an installer or instructions for setting up GhostBSD on a hard drive?
ET: Not yet. But we hope to finish the installer before the next release.
DW: Are there other programs or utilities you want to add to GhostBSD, or is it designed to be a simple addition to FreeBSD?
ET: A package manager to install and de-install from the FreeBSD packages, not the ports. A network manager.
DW: What do you want to see in the next version of GhostBSD?
ET: The installer, Karsten Pederson is working on it. If possible the network manager. And USB auto-mount.
DW: Do you think that, as BSD becomes more popular, we will see more flavours of BSD being created the same way we have seen so many Linux distributions?
ET: I believe and hope that BSD becomes more popular. If projects like PC-BSD and GhostBSD become easy to use like some GNU/Linux distros, but with keeping the original system of BSD, we're going see an increase of users in the BSD world. That is one of the goals in my life.
DW: Eric, thank you very much for taking time to chat and for your work on expanding the BSD community.
* * * * *
The GhostBSD web site has a simple, clean presentation which is easy to navigate. There isn't much in the way of GhostBSD-specific documentation yet, but the project does have a forum where users can come together to get advice and share tips. At the moment the operating system is offered in two flavours, 32-bit and 64-bit. Both images are live CDs and can be downloaded directly from the project's web site or via BitTorrent.
The live disc kicks off with a text boot screen, much the same as you would encounter running vanilla FreeBSD. After chugging away through some boot-up text, I was presented with a GNOME (version 2.28) desktop environment. By default, the theme is green, almost everything is green. According to the project's web site this is partly in recognition of the "green" environmental goals of the project and partly because blue gets used a lot and this sets GhostBSD apart. The system is light and responsive and testing in a virtual machine demonstrated that the OS would run comfortably with 512 MB of RAM.
GhostBSD 1.0 - exploring the desktop
(full image size: 62kB, screen resolution 800x600 pixels)
The live environment comes with a fairly standard collection of software. The menus contain Firefox 3.5, Pidgin, a video player, audio player, disc burner, the Epiphany web browser, and image viewer. We can also find a calculator, text editor and a supply of GNOME games. There's a handy search function and a group of applications for changing the user's settings, the desktop appearance and other preferences. GhostBSD comes with the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) 4.2.1 for people who want to test/demo their software in a BSD environment. The operating system comes with popular multimedia codecs, allowing the user to listen to MP3 files and watch videos. Flash is not installed, but given FreeBSD's ability to offer Linux binary compatibility, it could be run.
GhostBSD had some trouble with my HP laptop (dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB RAM, Intel video card). It would boot without any problems and displayed the desktop, but I couldn't get any sound out of my speakers. Nor could I get an Internet connection via my Intel wireless card or my Novatel mobile modem. My touchpad worked well, detecting taps as clicks. Things went smoother on my generic desktop machine (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA graphics card). Performance was a little faster, the desktop was set to my maximum resolution and audio worked without any problems.
GhostBSD 1.0 - image viewing and connecting with people
(full image size: 162kB, screen resolution 800x600 pixels)
GhostBSD has some interesting security quirks which will either seem comforting or annoying, depending on your point of view. For instance, I was happy to discover the system logs the user in under a non-root account. Administrative functions can be accessed using su or sudo without a password. On the other hand, I wasn't pleased to find that clicking on a local drive in the GNOME Places menu resulted in an error message. As it turns out, the root directory (/) is mounted as a read-only partition and that includes the area where new drives (local drives, thumb drives, cameras) would be mounted. Now, for supported file systems, it may be possible to create a mount point in the user's home directory and manually mount the device using sudo, but that's an approach which doesn't really fit with the easy, live GNOME desktop image. Rounding out the experience, I found most network services where not running by default, the exception being Sendmail.
GhostBSD 1.0 - changing settings and browsing applications
(full image size: 170kB, screen resolution 800x600 pixels)
Package management is a bit of a moot point on a live CD, especially one where much of the file system is mounted read-only. However, GhostBSD does come with FreeBSD's tools to add and remove packages, which connect to the parent's repository system. I suspect this will become a strong selling point once the operating system gets its own installer.
Actually, just about any comment I have to make about GhostBSD could be appended by "I wish the system came with an installer." Which is as much a compliment to the developers who have gotten this far, as it is a complaint of a missing feature. I think GhostBSD will become a useful system once it's configured for regular, daily use. Recently there has been a slow but steady push to try pairing the major BSDs with pre-configured desktops. We've seen Jibbed (based on NetBSD), PC-BSD (based on FreeBSD), GNOBSD (based on OpenBSD) and now GhostBSD (also based on FreeBSD). GhostBSD may not be ready for prime time yet, but it's off to a good start and I suspect it will do well once it makes the transition from a live disc to a local install. At the moment, it feels more like a stable proof-of-concept, rather than a day-to-day open-source tool.
Stepping back a bit from GhostBSD, I think it's interesting to see these new BSD projects spring up and the manner in which they're developing. So far it seems there has been a real effort by each of the new projects listed above to stick with their parent's base and add on to that base or offer some pieces pre-configured. This seems to be in contrast to many Linux distributions which tend to fork further away from their parent projects and, at least on the surface, take on an independent identity. For example, if we look at the evolution of Zenwalk from Slackware, PCLinuxOS from Mandriva, Mint from Ubuntu. Those parent/child combinations have a lot in common, they may even be binary compatible, but their identities tend to be distinct. Their About pages mention their parent distributions, but generally in a passing manner.
From what I've seen thus far, the new BSD projects seem to be keeping firmer ties with their parent projects. If you visit the websites of GhostBSD, Jibbed and PC-BSD you'll find they say, respectively, "GhostBSD it is a GNOME based FreeBSD distribution in a form of a live CD," "Jibbed is a bootable live CD based on the NetBSD operating system," and "PC-BSD is a fully functional desktop operating system, running FreeBSD 8.x under the hood." I'm not sure if one practice is better than the other, but I do think it demonstrates a difference in philosophy between the two open-source camps. It should be interesting to see how GhostBSD evolves.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Fedora's new project leader, Mandriva's uncertain future, Linux Mint's flirt with Debian, Peppermint and Slackware interviews
  The Fedora project has a new project leader. Following the recent resignation of Paul Frields from the post, Red Hat announced last week that Jared Smith (pictured on the right) will now take over the duties: "Every Fedora release provides an opportunity for renewal and change. Our recent release of Fedora 13, which is being hailed by many as one of our best releases ever, is no exception. As we embark on another exciting development cycle, we also have the opportunity to renew the leadership of the Fedora Project as part of our commitment to change and evolution. In July, Jared Smith will join Red Hat as the new Fedora Project Leader, taking over the role from Paul Frields. Jared Smith has been a long-time user of both Red Hat and Fedora, and has been an active participant in the Fedora community since 2007. He has primarily spent his time working with the infrastructure and documentation teams. He has helped with the development of Fedora Talk, our community VoIP telephony system. Fedora Talk allows various Fedora developers and contributors to communicate verbally for free across the Internet."
With the development of Fedora 14 now in full swing, many users are wondering what exciting features the new version will bring to the table. Besides the usual -- updated packages, improved hardware compatibility, etc., there is one rather unusual goal: stick to the release schedule. At least that's according to John Poelstra who would like Fedora to be known as the distribution that always ships on time: "I'm throwing down a challenge for Fedora 14 - we ship all three releases: alpha, beta, and final on time. I'm not advocating cutting any corners or lowering our standards. I expect them to remain the same. What I would like to see is more discipline and fortitude about what changes get committed and when. And where necessary, start a tiny bit earlier than we might have in the past. I've spelled out some other ideas in a previous post. ... I know unexpected stuff breaks, people are human, and 'software schedules are usually late.' We can hold to a higher standard by mitigating these risks. In the grand scheme of things, two weeks late on a software release is hardly anything, and yet, given a choice, I'd like Fedora to be known as the distribution that always ships on time."
* * * * *
 Mandriva's uncertain future and rumours surrounding the company's financial situation continue to attract interest in the Linux community. Last week Susan Linton summarised the situation in an article entitled Mandriva's Future Rosy or Rose Colored?: "Experts question Mandriva's ability to construct a profitable business model and users hope a freely available version will continue to be a part of the business model. Speculation on Mandriva forums has them abandoning the Powerpack and splitting their offerings into enterprise and community versions, much like Red Hat and Fedora or Novell and openSUSE. Even if Mandriva's future was uncertain, community members are questioning the commitment of Mandriva on the desktop since development has stopped on the latest version that was due for release June 3. Wiki feature pages have not been updated since May 15 and the expected release date for 2010.1 (June 2) was removed from the planning calendar when release candidate 2 was announced. Even the official Mandriva blog remains silent. Developers are complaining of absent paychecks and Nicolas Lucreil and Pascal Terjan have already left the building." Mandriva later updated the above-mentioned Wiki page, with the final release of Mandriva Linux 2010.1 now scheduled for later this week - 8 July.
* * * * *
 The developers of Linux Mint have been faithful to Ubuntu as the base of their project, but the idea of re-basing the distribution and creating a new Mint spin does surface from time to time. Clement Lefebvre, the project's founder and lead developer, seems to be seduced by the concept of creating a rolling-release variant of Linux Mint based on Debian's testing branch: "The idea of a Linux Mint desktop based on top of Debian 'Testing' is quite seducing. It's much faster than Ubuntu and the current Linux Mint desktops, it uses fewer resources, and it opens the door for a rolling distribution, with a continuous flow of updates and no jumps from one release to another. It's something we've always been tempted to do. Needless to say, whether it has been because of our lack of communication on that topic or not, this has been a source of numerous rumors within the community. A while ago, we released an alpha non-installable live CD based on Debian. Then, last August I announced I was working on a new installer, and recently, I was joined by Ikey Doherty to work on the Debian base again.This time we're producing our own live CD, straight from the Debian 'Testing' repositories, and it also comes with its own installer. What we're aiming at, this time, is a fully working and fully installable live CD which behaves in every way as similarly as the main Linux Mint edition."
* * * * *
 Peppermint OS, a new Ubuntu-based distribution with integrated Cloud features, has recently been featured on many Linux web sites. Last week it was the turn of The Inquirer to give the project some more exposure in an article entitled Peppermint, a web-centric Linux OS: "Weaver started working with the initial concept in January 2010. He downloaded and tested around 100 different distros, looking for ideas. He claimed that notable stand-outs were Arch in the speed department, sidux regarding its look and feel, and, naturally, Linux Mint. However, he already knew the definite direction he wanted development to take. 'Once we really knew what we were doing I had the private beta ready in about three weeks. The beta lasted for another three weeks before we declared it stable and made the public release.' His direction was a chance to build a fast, stable, and cloud-centric modern operating system. Weaver took Remington along for the ride to help work on Peppermint. 'Our philosophy revolves around creating a fast and stable web portal, but without sacrificing the form and function of a more traditional desktop operating system.'"
* * * * *
 Finally, a link to another interesting interview. The Slack World web site continues to give exposure to various Slackware contributors and this time they talk to Stuart Winter, a Slackware developer and maintainer of the ARMedslack project. The interview has an intriguing title: I learnt more about Linux in two weeks of using Slackware than in two years of using Red Hat. From the article: "One of the things I have always loved about Linux is that for the most part (at least in my experience) if you have some hardware, you know that in 99% of the cases, you'll be able to use it in a few years' time. Whereas if you were using Windows, there's a good chance that the software would have been dropped by the vendor since the hardware is obsolete. This goes for both the kernel level drivers and user space stuff. I have used some of the other main stream Linux distributions recently and one of the key things that struck me is just how dumbed down they are, particularly that they are geared towards users who do not know what to do with the root account. Ubuntu in particular wouldn't let me 'su -' to root! Having to reconfigure the OS to let me do what I want and know how to do, drives me nuts. I'm so glad with Slackware all you have to do is build it up, not tear it down first then build it up. But all in all, I like the direction Linux is going in, and as long as there is choice, I think most people can be happy once they find a combination of OS and software that works for them."
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Open source licenses
Legal-penguin asks: I'm starting a new project and I want to make it open source so I can give back to the community. There are a lot of licenses out there to choose from. Can you recommend an open-source license for my new project?
DistroWatch answers:I'm a big fan of open-source software licenses and I try to use them as often as reasonably possible, but I don't think I can recommend one for you. There are a few important pieces of information I don't have. I don't know much about you, your project or your target audience. Unless someone has those key pieces of data, you probably shouldn't take licensing advice from them (or me). A software license tells the world how you would like them to use and redistribute the code you write. In many ways, it is as much of a personal statement as a technical one.
As far as answers go, that's not really helpful, so I will offer this bit of advice: read a few open source licenses. It never ceases to surprise me how many people will use, promote or argue against a license without having actually read it. So my suggestion is to head over to the Open Source Initiative website and browse the licenses offered under the heading License that are popular and widely used or with strong communities. There are eight really good, widely used licenses there and, chances are, one of them will suit your needs.
While you're reading the licenses, I find it helpful to consider a few questions:
- What do I want my license to do for me?
- What do I want this license to do for the end-users?
- What should the license do for other developers/projects/companies?
- Will this license still be appropriate if my project becomes a lot larger or more popular?
For instance, you may wish to make your project open source so everyone can share the code, submit patches and enjoy your work for free, but do you want others to be able to fork your work? How will you feel if they add their own branding and sell it? Is that something you'll encourage or is it something you'd like to prevent? Are you okay with someone else putting your code in a closed-source project or would you like to ensure that the code is always open source? Once you've tackled these questions and read a few of the licenses linked to above, I think you'll be able to easily pick the best tool for the job. After all, an open source license isn't just a philosophical statement, it's also a tool to help you accomplish a task. Best of luck with your new project!
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| Released Last Week |
Astaro Security Gateway 8.0
The just-released new version of Astaro Security Gateway comes with an overhauled web-based administration tool and improved security features: "Today the next version of our flagship product is available; Astaro Security Gateway version 8.000 has been released. Highlights: updated WebAdmin - new colors, fonts, and visuals make WebAdmin more easily readable with crisper overall presentation; IPv6 - support has been added for the next iteration of IP addressing; new Linux kernel and base system - provides 64-bit support, massively increased hardware compatibility, and better performance; country blocking - deny communications to/from any combination of countries and/or regions; web application security - a new subscription has been added to our protection portfolio which protects your web servers from modern attacks, hackers, viruses and data theft...." Read the rest of the release announcement for a full list of new features and improvements.
IPFire 2.7
Jan Paul Tuecking has announced the release of IPFire 2.7, a specialist distribution of Linux for firewalls: "Today we are going to release IPFire 2.7. At first we will only release the ISO files, the update is not yet available via pakfire. The reason for this is the change of the IPSec software from OpenSwan to StrongSwan and the mandatory changes in the configuration of net2net connections. The update on pakfire will be released next friday, 2010-07-09, so there is enough time to change the IPSec tunnels. There are about 400 changes in the new IPFire version: updated Linux kernel to stable LTS (2.6.32.15); updated OpenSSL to version 0.9.8o; updated Net-SSLeay to version 1.36; switched IPSec from OpenSwan to StrongSwan version 4.4.0; fixed VPN-watch hang at connection re-start; updated Snort to stable 2.8.6; removed snort md5 check, added free space check; added support for alix2 LEDs; added Vodafone K3765 and K4505 usbids to option driver...." Visit the project's news page to read the detailed changelog.
Element 1.3
Kevin Thompson has announced the release of Element 1.3, a Xubuntu-based distribution for home theatre personal computers: "We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of Element OS 1.3. This is the first version of Element OS to provide streaming content services out of the box through the inclusion of the Cooliris media browser. Cooliris brings to Element OS tens of thousands of web videos, TV shows, movies, and music videos from all the major networks, studios, and web channels. Categorized, searchable, and all presented in a unique 3D media wall. We also continue our gradual improvements to the 1.x series with new versions of the update manager, HDMI audio switch, and a new interface setup for Firefox. This version is based on Xubuntu 9.10; featured software includes Linux kernel 2.6.31, Xfce 4.6.1, XBMC 9.11, Firefox 3.5.9, Decibel audio player 1.01, Pidgin 2.6.5, Transmission 1.75, AllmyApps.com 9.10 integration, custom GTK+ themes, and version 1.0 of the Element application finder." Read the rest of the release announcement for a full changelog.
Estrella Roja 2.8
Estrella Roja 2.8, an Argentinian Linux distribution based on Debian's testing branch, but featuring the legacy KDE 3.5 desktop, has been released. According to the release announcement (in Spanish), the new version combines the relatively lightweight KDE 3.5 desktop environment with a new i686-optimised Linux kernel, version 2.6.34, with a PREEMPT patch and support for many WiFi chipsets, including Intel, Atheros, Broadcom and Realtek. Among the included packages WINE has been updated to version 1.1, Pidgin to version 2.7.1, MPlayer to the latest SVN build with support for Spanish and with skins, emesene to version 1.6.2 (with webcam support), XChat to version 2.8, and NVIDIA driver to version 173.14.25. Also included is wxDFast, a download accelerator program and rtmpdump 2.3, a console program that displays Flash streaming.
Estrella Roja - a Debian-based distribution from Argentina
(full image size: 609kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Absolute Linux 13.1.2
The latest version of Absolute Linux, a lightweight Slackware-based distribution with IceWM, comes with Google Chrome as the default web browser and a number of security fixes: "Absolute Linux 13.1.2 released. Google Chrome replaces Mozilla Firefox as default browser. Lower memory usage, faster rendering and proper URL parsing all contributed to this decision. Firefox package is still up to date and in CD2 directory of repos under /internet. Also several security-related updates as well as multimedia installer update (needed updated URL) Also updated rox-archiver to handle DEB files (to unpack, not install). Note that Google Chrome is a native Absolute build with blacklisting of Gecko Media Player plugin removed. This means that the plugin works. It was blacklisted by Google coders due to crashing complaints, but I have tested it extensively and have not experienced these issues, so I'm watching videos." Visit the project's news page to read the brief release announcement.
BlankOn 6.0
Ainul Hakim has announced the release of BlankOn 6.0, an Indonesian desktop Linux distribution based on Ubuntu with support for Indonesian languages and scripts, as well as English: "BlankOn 6.0 'Ombilin' is the newest version of the BlankOn distribution. It was developed by the Indonesian Linux Mover Foundation and BlankOn developer team. BlankOn is an Indonesian distribution that includes a variety of software that is widely used by consumers in general, such as office programs, financial applications, Internet applications, drawing (both vector and bitmap) and support for various multimedia file formats. Features: four types of scripts, namely Bugis, Toba Batak, Balinese and alphabet of futility; Stardict fast dictionary; Chromium web browser; Exaile music player; USB modem switch, Shotwell photo manager; support for the AMD64 architecture...." Read the release announcement and release notes (both links in Bahasa Indonesia) for further details. An English translation of the release notes is available here.
BlankOn 6.0 - a desktop distribution for (not only) Indonesia
(full image size: 581kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
- Dreamlinux 4.0-beta6, the release announcement
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6-beta2, the release notes
- Nexenta Core Platform 3.0-rc2, the release announcement
- Imagineos 20100628, the release announcement
- openSUSE 11.3-rc2, the release announcement
- Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio and Mythbuntu 10.10-alpha2, the release announcement
- Ojuba 4-beta, the release announcement
- FreeBSD 8.1-RC2, the release announcement
- Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.5
- Berry Linux 1.03
- SystemRescueCd 1.5.7
- GParted LiveCD 0.6.0-6
- RIPLinuX 9.9, 10.0
- Zeroshell 1.0-beta13
- Parted Magic 5.0-rc
- Chakra Phoix 0701
- Tiny Core Linux 3.0-alpha9
- Salix OS 13.1-rc1
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
June 2010 DistroWatch.com donation: GCompris receives €275.00
We are happy to announce that the recipient of the June 2010 DistroWatch.com donation is GCompris, an educational software suite for young children. It receives €275.00 in cash.
For those readers who aren't young enough to enjoy GCompris or aren't familiar with the suite, here is a description from the project's home page: "GCompris is a high-quality educational software suite comprising of numerous activities for children aged 2 to 10. Some of the activities are game orientated, but nonetheless still educational. A list of categories include: computer discovery - keyboard, mouse, different mouse gestures; algebra -table memory, enumeration, double entry table, mirror image; science - the canal lock, the water cycle, the submarine, electric simulation; geography - place the country on the map; games - chess, memory, connect 4, Oware, Sudoku; reading - reading practice; others - learn to tell time, puzzle of famous paintings, vector drawing, cartoon making. Currently GCompris offers in excess of 100 activities and more are being developed. GCompris is free software, that means that you can adapt it to your own needs, improve it and, most importantly, share it with children everywhere." For further information please see the project's about page. Screenshots can be found here.
Bruno Coudoin, the founder and lead developer of GCompris, has emailed DistroWatch to say "merci beaucoup" for the donation: "I just realized that you made GCompris a huge donation. Thanks a lot for taking care of us."
Launched in 2004, this monthly donations programme is a DistroWatch initiative to support free and open-source software projects and operating systems with cash contributions. Readers are welcome to nominate their favourite project for future donations. Those readers who wish to contribute towards these donations, please use our advertising page to make a payment (PayPal and credit cards are accepted). Here is the list of the projects that have received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NDISwrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and Sabayon Linux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350), Frugalware Linux ($340), cURL ($300), GSPCA ($400), FileZilla ($400), MythDora ($500), Linux Mint ($400), Parsix GNU/Linux ($300), Miro ($300), GoblinX ($250), Dillo ($150), LXDE ($250)
- 2009: Openbox ($250), Wolvix GNU/Linux ($200), smxi ($200), Python ($300), SliTaz GNU/Linux ($200), LiVES ($300), Osmo ($300), LMMS ($250), KompoZer ($360), OpenSSH ($350), Parted Magic ($350) and Krita ($285)
- 2010: Qimo 4 Kids ($250), Squid ($250), Libre Graphics Meeting ($300), Bacula ($250), FileZilla ($300), GCompris ($352)
Since the launch of the Donations Program in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$24,830 to various open-source software projects.
* * * * *
New distributions added to database
- Aurora OS. Aurora OS started its life as Eeebuntu, an Ubuntu-based distribution optimised for ASUS Eee PC and other popular netbooks. In June 2010 the project was renamed to Aurora OS, with a goal to become a more general Linux distribution for the desktop with user-friendly features.
Aurora OS 4 Beta 1 - an Ubuntu-based distribution for desktops and netbooks
(full image size: 1,022kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
- Netrunner. Netrunner is an Ubuntu-based distribution with a focus on desktop computing. It boasts a carefully tuned KDE 4 desktop with many integrated GNOME applications to offer users a selected mix of popular and powerful applications.
Netrunner 2 RC - an Ubuntu-based distribution with KDE 4
(full image size: 330kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- Pipsqueak Linux. Pipsqueak Linux is a minimalist, text-mode Linux distribution based on ttylinux. The system requirements are: an i686-based x86 machine, 80 MB of RAM, Ethernet networking recommended. Pipsqueak is perfect for that old PII in your closet, has full Ethernet networking capability and supports a wide array of cards. It also supports reading ext4 partitions and many other features you would expect from using a very modern kernel.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 12 July 2010.
Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar
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1 • DWW (by Landor on 2010-07-05 09:41:20 GMT from Canada)
I really enjoyed this week's review and interview about GhostBSD. I'll definitely be giving GhostBSD a spin around the block.
I couldn't think of a better project off the top of my head for the donation either. Gcompris is really a worthwhile project and deserves the donation in my opinion.
It was good to see Aurora added to the database as well. I've never been a fan of the spinoff's and such but I really like what they're doing with power management for netbooks/laptops (especially triple e's), something that's a bit of a side project of theirs, but not, as some may understand.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
2 • Estrella Roja ... Siempre! (by meanpt on 2010-07-05 09:56:04 GMT from Portugal)
It came to my mind that when you do anything with a belief, mission or even a passion for a greater objective, your thought is clearly driven and you get your job well done in that it has to be done for a an almost fireproof workable device. None of those may be the case for Estrella Roja but ... well, with informed Marxists with a cause you can count them as having long term striking convictions, and like the old functional and always working AK47, this distro is a debian without glitches, provide users with the "fight" manuals, it has almost everything completely translated for straightforward use, as shouting "it's ready, it works, now use it" ... like "your weapon is ready, go and fight for your freedom in the world's digital war".
You can't do much but smile on the initial splash boot screen (Gnu is there, tux is there alright, with Che Guevara centered between them), not to mention the last chords of the "International" while you desktop lands. A really ugly desktop, by the way. But one can choose where to fight and I chosen to do it in the rural areas instead slams. Background changed to the partially cloudy green fields.
This is a KDE 3.5, they say, and it has all the rubbish and pearls this desktop packs with, plus the usual categorized menus and even a main fluxbox menu entry. Fluxbox? ... interesting. This weapon is full of bullets with some in their lighter versions. Instead of OOffice, we get AbiWord, Gnumeric and so on. Konquereor and Ffox 3.6.3, with the later disguised as IceCat, have also been assigned to this mission. Konqueror is also in charge for main file managing duties. Oh, how about communications? Is this an other isolated guerrilla team lost in time in the tropical jungle? Not quite. Against what I found in other slack an debian KDE 3.5 equipped distros, this one promptly recognized my wired communications setup on the first boot after the installation. That's nice, I'm feeling this revolution's more compelling.
Resources? Well, in the jungle you need to be agile and light so, works reasonably well within 256 MB but count with a fast performance starting with 300 MB of RAM. If it is fast in my virtual VBox hosted by an almost 10 year i686 machine and a bloated XP, I wonder what it could achieve with more modern equipment. Of course, I don't know nothing about modern hardware recognition but, hey, I'm fighting in the jungle, not in the outskirts of the Buenos Aires' digital metropolis. Is there anyone ready for that kind or recruitment? Good.
Now, as required by the circumstances, lets end this gathering with the appropriate hurrays.
"Viva la Revolución Digitale! Viva Estrella Roja! Viva la Libertad! Comunitários Digitales Unidos,Venceremos!"
And that's it. :)
3 • Recommended for Donation (by karaangbugoy on 2010-07-05 10:36:28 GMT from Philippines)
How about considering photorec/testdisk combo for DW's contribution? These two have saved many of us from a lot of grief.
4 • Good (by Barnabyh on 2010-07-05 11:23:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
to hear more about the BSD's. Things are certainly happening there too. Thanks Jesse.
5 • Aurora OS (by Alexandru Popa on 2010-07-05 11:36:45 GMT from Germany)
If I remember correctly, Aurora was a Fedora fork for ALPHA (?) processor architecture. Is it still alive? And is it proper to use its name for another distribution?
6 • Linux Mint - Rolling Release Edition (by stephen on 2010-07-05 11:39:49 GMT from Philippines)
I, for one, would extremely appreciate and instantly switch to Linux Mint if they indeed pursue their Rolling Release Edition.
I like the idea of rolling-releases... just install once and just keep updated/upgraded without the need for re-installation every 6 months or so.
A Linux Mint Rolling-Release Edition would attract more Linux newbies simply because the every-6-month re-installation hurdle will be eliminated.
Besides, Debian is the greatest Distro... it gave birth to Ubuntu.
What do you guys think?
7 • RE: 5 Aurora OS (by ladislav on 2010-07-05 11:45:17 GMT from Taiwan)
No, it wasn't ALPHA, it was SPARC. The distro was called Aurora SPARC Linux.
http://distrowatch.com/aurora
Last year it became part of Fedora Architectures and is now called Fedora SPARC:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/SPARC
8 • Linux Mint rolling release (by ceti on 2010-07-05 11:56:50 GMT from Brazil)
A Linux Mint rolling-release edition based on Debian Testing branch?
Good to know.
I'm in.
9 • Linux Mint Debian (by Chris Were on 2010-07-05 12:25:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
I (as a huge debian fan) would switch to Mint if they used a Debian base.
10 • Mint on Debian (by meanpt on 2010-07-05 12:26:52 GMT from Portugal)
Well, provided the final result is faster, includes the nice tools of the original, the updates and upgrades are duly tested, controlled and made available through Mint repositories, why not? They could even call it MintBang :)
11 • LinuxMint (by Ken on 2010-07-05 12:31:27 GMT from Australia)
a big yes please to a Debian based rolling release of LinuxMint, this is good thinking, Mint is the best, i've used openSUSE since 9.1, these days Mint is miles ahead, thank you to the Mint team :)
12 • Mint & Debian (by Smartjak on 2010-07-05 12:58:03 GMT from United States)
I like the idea of Mint based on Debian Testing. Being a Debian Squeeze/Testing user, I see the possibilities as I've moved away from bi-annually installs/dist-upgrades. Those got old.
A rolling release sounds good. But I'm concerned about drivers every time a new kernel comes down the pike. Hopefully, if this comes to pass, Mint will have some script to reconfigure the graphics driver. Like sidux has. Hopefull. Here's keeping my fingers crossed.
13 • Rolling Releases (by Job on 2010-07-05 13:03:33 GMT from Canada)
* In his blog Clem writes: "Until we release it as stable and we can assess the feedback of the community...etc, etc."
I'm curious how successful Linux Mint's rolling release will be if it actually comes to fruition. Many people, including myself, run the Debian Testing branch because it is more up-to-date than the stable version and more stable than Sid, the unstable version of Debian.
While both of these are obvious facts, I want to point out that Testing has more than it's fair share of issues and problems and you have to be prepared for a rough ride sometimes. Some people rave about Testing's stability, but they don't call it Testing without reason. In the past year, I've gone without sound for a month, unable to suspend to ram for another month, and some of my custom menu additions disappeared unexpectedly for awhile. That's not to say they don't get fixed - they do, because updates happen quite often, sometimes a hundred or more updates in a week. And I suppose depending on your hardware you might experience a different set of issues, or maybe none at all. I don't mind these quirks because it makes things more interesting, keeps my system current enough, I know the problems will most likely get fixed, and I get to learn a few things on debugging along the way too.
The point is, Debian has large teams to deal with the bugs in their testing branch, and a rigorous approach to fixing them too. I can only imagine the Mint version based on Debian will be an advanced user version with only minor support from Mint. I can't see Mint trying to fix bugs that will be fixed upstream, possibly in very short time. And I can't imagine them trying to debug and provide support for some of the major rollouts that crop up from time to time, like parallel init scripts for example. I can see them supplementing upstream bug fixing and reporting though.
Anyway, I'm not trying to knock them, I just wonder if it's a bit of a pipe dream to think they can produce a "stable" rolling release from Debian Testing. I think the only way to do that is to add a very significant delay in their rollout from Debian Testing to Mint Rolling Stable.
14 • Fedora (by forlin on 2010-07-05 13:08:06 GMT from Portugal)
I was happy to know that Fedora has a new project leader that is committed to keep the excellent quality level of Fedora 13. I remember that a could never install F12 and F11 was already a beat dated when I arrived to Linux. When I found that F13 had a perfect hardware detection, was rock solid, with a big software choice to install, very timely updates, good user support and the added peace of mind regarding their home made security tools, I decided to make it a permanent install in one of my partitions. Also, I did not find it difficult to install the various closed drivers and codecs. My only annoyance with it is the system time. After installing it become 1 hour late. At first sight not a big deal. Administration/time/password/adjust, done. The problem is that this change, caused a few (but not all) other distros at other partitions to get early, and adjusting them, makes F12 to become late again. A hake with its back in the mouth, as we say where I live. Now, let's wish the new leader and all the team the best luck and good work for f14, and although it's good to keep in schedule, there will always be the possibility for a small sleep. I myself will rather prefer to announce any release to happen "up to", or "between a-b" than at certain date.
15 • What's the point? (by Joe on 2010-07-05 13:21:12 GMT from United States)
You're still going to be stuck with eglibc, which while it claims to be compatible with glibc, the only guarantee that your $3000 license of Autodesk Maya and $700 license of Photogenix HDR will continue to work is a vague claim on debian-dev that features of glibc will be ported to eglibc and a vague hope that both Autodesk and Idruna don't use any feature of glibc that hasn't been ported.
Debian has practically ruled out its use as a workstation because of its inability to deal with Red Hat employees.
16 • DWW (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2010-07-05 14:10:43 GMT from Sweden)
I would just like to comment on how much I appreciate DistroWatch. I come here every week to find out what is happening in the Linux/BSD world. I never leave disappointed. There is always some article/review by Jesse or someone else that shines a light on something I wouldn't probably have found otherwise. I don't spend a lot of time reading the comments section but I have found some wonderful ideas/links in here as well. I want to say thank you to Ladislav and all the other kind souls who contribute here. I am one of the grateful beneficiaries of your thoughtfulness and knowledge. Keep up the great work.
EVL
17 • BSD derivatives (by velzevul on 2010-07-05 14:34:03 GMT from Greece)
"So far it seems there has been a real effort by each of the new projects listed above to stick with their parent's base and add on to that base or offer some pieces pre-configured. This seems to be in contrast to many Linux distributions which tend to fork further away from their parent projects and, at least on the surface, take on an independent identity."
Thats cause creating derivative works, ala Linux (read thousands of pointless ones) is very new to the BSD world.
18 • GhostBSD & FreeBSD (by Marcelo on 2010-07-05 15:34:39 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Welcome to the world of FreeBSD. The better philosophy all is compatible with the basic system, FreeBSD. This is GhostBSD, PC-BSD, DesktopBSD, FreeNAS and another stand for high compatibility and exchange between the systems. The Linux distribution-world have nothing like this compatibility.
19 • Rolling Mint Debian (by capricornus on 2010-07-05 15:37:32 GMT from Belgium)
Lynx (and Mint based on it) are so good I quit testing for a while. But a swifter Rolling Mint Debian (as swift as Sidux? but with the liberties Sidux has not), yezzzzz, I would very much appreciate that, I'm sure it would and will be a winner - if that ever exists in Linuxstan.
20 • Upcoming Release of FreeBSD (by Ronald Gibson on 2010-07-05 16:05:44 GMT from United States)
The FreeBSD release date is missing.
21 • Mint (by M1k on 2010-07-05 16:17:10 GMT from Italy)
Mint on debian?
YESSS!!!
22 • Fedora 13 (by CriptoPT on 2010-07-05 16:27:56 GMT from Portugal)
@14 I have the same problem with the date..
My Fedora installations will always cause the date to be one hour late.
Any solution? i found it a bit weird.. its always the same. Im GMT.
Portugal / London hour.
AuroraOS seems a great distro for EEE users like me. We are not few. EEE pc are just great. Tiny, light... just great to take everywhere.
Ubuntu as its base means updated software.
I just hope linux development continues like it is. Great work for fedora developers. 3G support is just great.
23 • Pure Debian old stuff (by MacLone on 2010-07-05 16:39:50 GMT from Mexico)
Debian is great if you don't mind everything is old, even the testing branch is old. SID is much better but... only Sidux dare to use it. So.. you want bleeding edge or old reliable stuff?
I would like to see a Linux Mint based on debian but with a good installer and bleeding edge packages...then...it would be great.
24 • BlankOn (by Victor on 2010-07-05 16:57:16 GMT from United States)
I like how "Sundanese" alphabet translates to "alphabet of futility" :)
I like the idea behind BlankOn. I think it addresses a lot of problems faced by Indonesian users. The biggie is of course localization. But it also addressed stuff like better support for USB wireless modems (big deal in Indonesia, given the poor wired infrastructure), Stardict for dictionary application, and the scripts (although I dunno if anyone actually use them).
I have thought the distro to be dead, so I'm glad to see it alive and kicking. Ladislav, one thing you might've missed: BlankOn 7 is codenamed Pattimura and scheduled to be released on July 2011 according to the website.
Maybe I'll get to see Javanese script in the next release ;)
25 • Mint with Debian base! welcome (by stratus on 2010-07-05 17:00:14 GMT from India)
I welcome Mint with Debian base. The Ubuntu gone too far to take latest unstable packages in the distribution. after their 8.04 (LTS), none of their latest distributions work well as I expected. The Xorg modifications + Gnome Modification gave the instability worser than Windows for me. Atleaset for me.
8.04 I never had a application or browser breakdown which asked me to restart again.
26 • Zenwalk LiveCD (by Claus Futtrup on 2010-07-05 17:40:01 GMT from Denmark)
The Zenwalk team has announced that there's now a beta of the LiveCD edition of Zenwalk 6.4. Check it out:
http://www.zenwalk.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=115
Best regards,
Claus
Long time Zenwalker
27 • Mint Debian Base (by Sly on 2010-07-05 17:54:18 GMT from United States)
Maybe one of the reasons for contemplating the switch to Debian is there seems to be more and more Ubuntu-based distros are appearing every day. Lately, I'm having a hard time keeping track of them all.
I'm pretty sure the Mint team will do an excellent job regardles of whether they stick Ubuntu as the base or Debian. The track record is there.
28 • Mint and Zen. (by Old Timer on 2010-07-05 17:56:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mint with Debian would be great.
I tend to install a lot of distro and Mint is a fav. but the latest versions have been shackled too much by the Ubuntu base.
Grub 1.97 is a pain, when you have to make older versions co-exist with it.
Zenwalk is a nice piece of work, but still using LILO, please, go grub and try to work with other installed Linuxes...don't assume that you (Zen) are the only one!
29 • #28 - on GRUB / Mint and Zen. (by Claus Futtrup on 2010-07-05 18:25:01 GMT from Denmark)
Hi Old Timer ... GRUB has been in the works ... GRUB2 that is ... but the guys who tried didn't seem to really get the thing in the air. If you're (dear reader) is interested, please take a turn and give it a shot.
Zenwalk relies on its Slackware heritage, it's stability and so on, but is willing to take a jump towards the newer and better alternative... maybe even inspire Slack to do the same.
30 • fedora ans spin (by poloki on 2010-07-05 18:49:05 GMT from France)
I know there is fedora gnome, kde, lxde, xfc, moblin ... etc but it 's still called fedora. I wonder why there is ubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu plus 500 other derivatives with a different wallpaper. Is it just to occupy the space?
31 • My Mint Wishlist (by jeffcustom on 2010-07-05 18:50:33 GMT from United States)
If I had my ultimate options I would have Mint based on Sid.
I say this because I love sidux and the way they do KDE. BUT, when using Mint I have learned that the Gnome environment just works for me better. More than once I have went back and forth between these two as my main environment.
Since the sidux team wants nothing to do with Gnome, a Mint based on Sid would give users a Gnome and KDE distro that I could even use sidux kernels on both but would be able to use some of the nice Mint tools and configurations that I've grown to like very much.
We can dream can't we? :-)
32 • __Mintebian__ (by malik on 2010-07-05 19:22:14 GMT from France)
I vote for Mint version based on debian sid: five star.
33 • 2 • Estrella Roja ... Siempre! (by joji on 2010-07-05 19:39:54 GMT from Belgium)
@2 Liked your comments. But am not sure I understand everything.
Apart from the ideology and the 'really ugly desktop' what are your complaints?
Anything wrong with Debian Lenny and the Slax tools?
34 • GhostBSD and Mint on Debian (by Lost4sure on 2010-07-05 19:46:16 GMT from United States)
Running GhostBSD on a Dell inspiron 1525, so far so good after 1 day. The only issue right know is my Sprint Broadband not working. Its seems the Ubuntu based distros are the only the ones that pick up Sprint with no problems but everything else involves some google research.
Mint on Debian would be great. With the growth of linux increasing, the oversight would increase, which I think would lead to less breakage issues with rolling releases.
Give me a FreeBSD and Mint(debian) with Openbox and tint panel. :) Openbox just makes an OS faster with no lag, just my noob opinion. Yes, I can not wait the whole second and half for KDE to respond. < Sarcasm People!!!!!
"never found a BSD project with GNOME. I decide to do it, without any skill in programming at all. It took me eight months to do the first release"
This statement is very inspiring, but intimidating at the say time.
35 • Mint on Debian (by Melloe on 2010-07-05 20:27:32 GMT from United States)
Mint is a great NooB OS. One very few outside of the bumtus. ( Mephis used to be and still is on older hardware ). Mint on Debian would be the death of it for NooBs. Mint would then be regulated to the linux snobs and geeks like sidux. So, I for one wonder what those who would want Mint tied to Debian have to be thinking. Don't get me wrong, sidux and Debian are great, and I use them, but in my attempts to guide NooBs to Linux, neither pay a role.
36 • Mint (by Jesse on 2010-07-05 20:50:22 GMT from Canada)
For people who haven't read the blog entry on Mint's Debian experiment, there's an important notice near the bottom.
We’re not “switching base”, we’ll continue to use Ubuntu on most of our systems. This Debian-based project will produce an additional system (to start with), it’s something we want to try, and if it proves successful, it’s something we’ll continue to maintain.
So it sounds like they're considering having Debian Mint as an additional edition, not moving off of Ubuntu. Which would be interesting. It would give the rolling- release and Debian fans something to play with, while people who enjoy Mint's LTS edition could stay with the Ubuntu-based editions.
37 • 3 • 2 • Estrella Roja ... Siempre! (by joji (by meanpt on 2010-07-05 20:53:08 GMT from Portugal)
joji, I liked everything, I can't stop smiling. Moreover, when I fired up Pidgin and looked for MSN, it was there .-.. as "MSN (CIA, NSA)". Lol ...! Then I installed the VBox guest additions and it went smoothly. For the time being, there is much more to this distro to be tested. It seems to have everything. I thought to have it in English but decided not to go that way, as I find it more refreshing the way it is, this is, in "spanish". The only weakness is also its strenght: debian's repositories. I've been keeping a paralell instalation for testing first the updates and upgrades. :) ... by the way, why were you interested in my opinion? Do you belong to Estrella's community?
38 • Mint on Debian ... and competition ... (by meanpt on 2010-07-05 21:02:08 GMT from Portugal)
... it will have to do better then many others, like Dreamlinux, Parsix and ... you name it ... even CrunchBang is working hard on it ... not to mention Debian itself :) ...
39 • 37 • 33 • 2 • Estrella Roja ... Siempre! (by joji on 2010-07-05 21:26:45 GMT from Belgium)
Am glad we share the same ideas more or less.
I was interested because I had just installed 'Estrella Roja' (poor man's!!!). And you were the first to write about it in a rather unconventional way.
No, I do not belong to the Estrella's community. Discovered 'Estrella Roja' and its philosopy only yesterday. Feel 'justice' is important. And am not afraid to talk and / or work together with people who have other ideas ... But I am afraid of big words ...
Thank you.
40 • Gcompris donation (by Osoloco on 2010-07-05 22:38:26 GMT from Ecuador)
Hi Ladislav:
It is highly appreciated your donation to Gcompris, thanks!
I have no afiliation with the Gcompris project but I am an enthusiastic user/promoter.
More than the money value of the donation, what it counts is the implicit support for this type of free software projects.
41 • RE: 36 (by Landor on 2010-07-05 22:48:29 GMT from Canada)
Although I dread even adding to this topic, I read a bit more into the announcement than you did.
I see it as they are leaving their options open and very well could make a full switch to Debian testing in the future. The "start with" is the key reason for my view. Also though, it could be just a way to ramp-up traffic and exposure/advertising dollars to Linux Mint too. Who knows. I do know when someone leaves something open-ended like that, they do so intentionally, whatever their intention.
I would find a switch to something rolling release detrimental to Mint's popularity, also Mint and Clem's continued financial support. Reason being, take a look at the really popular distributions, which ones are rolling release. You lose a lot in regard to interest/popularity/media coverage, when you go to a rolling release model.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
42 • Mint (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 00:03:42 GMT from Canada)
Putting on flame retardant suit...
I think Mint will be biting off more than it can chew with a switch to a rolling release, especially if they think they can make it stable. Even trying to call it "stable" is a misnomer, because a rolling release is anything but stable. They are successful now because Ubuntu puts a huge effort into debugging a snapshot of Debian unstable, and even then there are problems. When one looks at all the problems even a 6 or 9 month release cycle has, it becomes more and more apparent why Debian stable takes so long to release and why they can actually call it stable.
Good luck Mint team. I predict they will announce dropping the rolling release within a year.
Exiting room and discarding burnt suit...
43 • Fedora shipping on time (by Woody Oaks on 2010-07-06 00:16:04 GMT from United States)
NUMBER NINE SHIPPED ON TIME. Remember Fedora 9? It was awful. Please, folks, take the time you need to ensure that your releases are usable. The problem with Fedora 9, of course, was KDE 4.0, and that KDE 4 Series has since acquired more bloat than repairs. I had been a long-time KDE fan, but I now use LXDE or XFCE on all the distros I run, including Fedora 13. KDE still provides a world of wonderful applications, but its desktop works best in the vertical file.
44 • XFCE and nodm (by merlin on 2010-07-06 01:40:09 GMT from Canada)
@43, I also swear by XFCE because it's clean, has the right balance of power and features without being bloated, and it's extremely light on resources and fast. I use the nodm display manager because I also don't need the features of a full display manager like gdm or kdm.
It's a killer combination, paired with an SSD, I get 12 second boot times to a fully settled desktop.
Why nodm? Because it's basically the same as setting your gdm to auto-login a specific user, which I would normally do. The downside is that you basically have a single user machine and you can't log out to a password protected dm. Logging out of nodm restarts X and boots you back to your desktop.
Security wise I wouldn't use nodm if I had anything I wanted protected on my hard drive. Having said that, if I did have something on my hard drive I wanted to protect, I would also encrypt the hard drive in addition to using a good dm. What's the point of adding a password to your login screen if some Tom, Dick or Harry can come along with a livecd or liveusb and access your files!
Cheers
45 • Mandriva (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 03:20:39 GMT from United States)
I hope Mandriva makes its way out of the financial mess it is in. Unfortunately, some developers have jumped ship. I've been trying various Linux distros out for a year or so now and always come back to Mandriva. It is stable for the most part and performs well on the hardware I've installed it on. Plus, I like the fact that you can setup LVM from the installer (unlike Ubuntu and Mint, which I like as well) and can select the type of software to install (e.g., gaming, development, etc.). I also like the Control Center, and the fact that you can easily install multiple desktop environments the Free and Powerpack versions. If one installs Gnome and KDE, for example, the programs aren't just thrown into the menus haphazardly, but organized by function and then often segregated by desktop. I don't find these kinds of touches in any other major distro.
If Mandriva tanks, it makes me wonder what PCLinuxOS will do since Texstar uses a lot of the Mandriva tools. At this point, it would be similar to wondering what would happen with Mint if Ubuntu went away (though Mint seems to be more dependent on its parent distro at this point than PCLinuxOS does). If the worst happens, then I'll my second choice at this point is Fedora. Though the initial install seems pretty bare bones by comparison, Fedora 13 seems really solid. My .02.
46 • @ 41, 42, 44 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 04:41:41 GMT from Canada)
@ 41, I disagree. There is no way Clem is going to change the base entirely for all the versions from Ubuntu. He has stated this repeatedly in the past, not just in this blog post, there was talk of this months ago and he dispelled rumors then already. I agree with 42 in that if he were to switch entirely it would be biting off more than he can chew. It's only logical for him to make one rolling release version but not the whole distro, that wouldn't make any sense at all.
@ 44, If you don't want people using livecd or liveusb to access your files, put a password on the BIOS and set it to boot first from the HD. That way, if you ever want to boot to cd or usb you can change it yourself but for the most part you will want to boot to HD and so it will be default and impossible for anyone to change short of resetting the CMOS.
47 • 2 • Estrella Roja ... Siempre! (by Vukota on 2010-07-06 05:09:53 GMT from Argentina)
Had a good laugh reading your comments meanpt. :-)
Good DWW, and glad to see diversified distro reviews, and GCompris getting money.
48 • @ 46, 42, 41 (by Kendall Weaver on 2010-07-06 06:00:24 GMT from United States)
There are no plans for Mint to drop the Ubuntu base at any point. The Debian base is something that has been talked about for a while and the team feels it's something worth pursuing as an addition to the current Mint lineup.
Clem and Ikey are remarkably effective at getting things done. I don't know of a better combination to be tackling a project like this.
49 • running imagineos (by gnomic on 2010-07-06 07:24:34 GMT from New Zealand)
This message from the imagineos live cd via wifi. Had a spot of bother getting X Window to run on ThinkPad with Intel 855GME video - seems the trick is to remove nomodeset from the default boot options after hitting TAB at the boot screen. Aside from that haven't struck any real glitches in a couple of live sessions of some hours. Includes Firefox 3.6.6, no Flash however. Also has mc (anyone else feel it's not Linux if there's no Midnight Commander?) and vim 7.2.
uname = Linux imagineos 2.6.33-zen1-ios #1 ZEN SMP Mon Mar 15
50 • Exactly. (by jake on 2010-07-06 07:43:29 GMT from United States)
"I learnt more about Linux in two weeks of using Slackware than in two years of using Red Hat."
It ain't rocket science ... If you want to just use the OS and GNU software, pick RedHat or Debian and their derivatives[1]. Use 'em, and enjoy!
If you want to learn how Linux works, Slackware's a good option.
[1] I should probably include SuSE with RedHat & Debian, seeing as it's grown beyond it's Slackware roots ...
51 • Minty Debian Testing (+ Estrella Roja) (by eco2geek on 2010-07-06 08:55:54 GMT from United States)
If a dedicated group of Mint devs could do for Debian Testing what Sidux does for Sid (and what Kanotix did before it), that would be...très séduisant. In brief, it'd be fantastic to have a Debian Testing-based distro supported by people who could work out fixes to the rough patches and/or tell us, "Don't dist-upgrade right now because package xyz will break" and then figure out a way around the problem. Custom kernels would be a bonus. Fine with me if it's just a small number of volunteers.
When a report about North Korea developing its own Linux-based OS, named "Red Star," made the rounds earlier this year, the reaction from the Estrella Roja ("Red Star") folks was amusing. It was a conspiracy! (Plug http://www.estrellaroja.info/?p=535 into Google Translate). Obviously, Estrella Roja is the one, the only, the true Marxist OS. Accept no substitutes.
52 • Mint rolling release (by enedene on 2010-07-06 09:06:54 GMT from Croatia)
It depends lot about how it's done. If they make it stable somehow it would be the best distribution out there.
Perhaps they should take a conservative approach to base packages like xorg, system in general and update the rest of software more often.
53 • 48 • @ 46, 42, 41 (by Kendall Weaver (by meanpt on 2010-07-06 09:13:32 GMT from Portugal)
Hi Kendall. Mint is a well established base and trademark. Its short and medium term mission and strategy will be to improve ubuntu. Period. Look at the alternatives still based on ubuntu, go for your own but paralel instant on (like ubuntu light is aiming to be) as a respin. In the meanwhile you already have another sandbox distro to play with debian: peppermint. Use it.Once you achieve a MInt competency, you can adopt it. Planning: your community will have to grow to achieve this. Share the culture, stick with your strategy, get the financing, and do it, if you want to do it, instead of staying in the limbo of the not so misunderstood statements.
54 • @53, Mint and Debian (by fernbap on 2010-07-06 09:56:09 GMT from Portugal)
"Mint is a well established base and trademark. Its short and medium term mission and strategy will be to improve ubuntu."
Wrong. Mint mission is to releave a good newbie friendly desktop distro. Using Clem's own words, "Ubuntu is just a component of Mint".
In fact, unlike other Ubuntu respins, Mint is ready to assume its place as a distro in its own right. It already is.
Mint has much to gain in going to Debian directly, and not depend on instabilities introduced by Ubuntu's drive into riding the novelty wave. Even Ubuntu users are getting tired of having to cope with regressions in almost every Ubuntu release.
"In the meanwhile you already have another sandbox distro to play with debian: peppermint."
Wrong. Peppermint is nothing more than Mint LXDE with that cloud nonsense. Hardly a "sandbox distro". Besides, what makes peppermint a good distribution is the fact that it is mint all around.
I look forward to a Debian Mint and will use it as soon as it is ready. I'm tired of having to learn Ubuntu in order to copy with its ideosyncracies that Mint is so far unable to get rid of.
55 • @54 • @53, Mint and Debian (by fernbap (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 10:52:49 GMT from Portugal)
fernbap, we are talking about strategies, starting where mint is today.
"Mint mission is to releave a good newbie friendly desktop distro" - to be changed to "next generation desktop distro".
"Ubuntu is just a component of Mint" - but a damned huge component, I would say. That's the engine and all the other mechanical infrastructure Mint has been built around. You can change your tyre in half an hour, but not the rest.
"Mint is ready to assume its place as a distro in its own right" - not quite, at least while it will depend on ubuntu decisions it will not be a "de facto" distro in its own right. Until then, it will be a buntu with a mint flavour.
"Mint has much to gain in going to Debian directly, and not depend on instabilities introduced by Ubuntu's drive into riding the novelty wave" - lately I'm more afraid of Debian's upadtates than the buntu's updates. Mint has much to gain only if it does it in a way that avoids the weaknesses it already suffers by being tied to ubuntu without creating aditional ones by falling in the clumbsy updates of Debian. One thing is sure: Mint has to fork to improve.
" Peppermint is nothing more than Mint LXDE with that cloud nonsense" - Peppermint is more than a distro, is a name crying for experimentation.
" I look forward to a Debian Mint and will use it as soon as it is ready. I'm tired of having to learn Ubuntu in order to copy with its ideosyncracies that Mint is so far unable to get rid of." - it makes, at least, two of us. In the meanwhile, Mint has to go on while that isn't achieved. We only do not agree on the path to get on the "readiness" statement.
56 • @ [55 • @54 • @53, Mint and Debian (by fernbap (by Anonymous] (by meanpt on 2010-07-06 10:54:07 GMT from Portugal)
My appologies, that's my comment.
57 • Mint and Debian (by Johannes on 2010-07-06 11:15:27 GMT from Germany)
@ 55: fernbap, I couldn't agree more with your smart comments.
Seems that people are already scared the next Ubuntu version... and Mint may be looking for a way out.
Nevertheless Ubuntu IS working pretty well, and is one of the most stable distro base I can think of.
58 • Mint and Debian (by bayou man on 2010-07-06 14:35:10 GMT from United States)
With rolling release and (not so) cutting edge - guys, what you are all describing is archlinux!!
And archlinux _is_ cutting edge as well as being a rolling release!
59 • @44 Bios password (by merlin on 2010-07-06 15:27:21 GMT from Canada)
Putting a password on the bios is a simple deterrent but I wouldn't rely on it if I wanted to protect anything sensitive. The hard drive can be removed and viewed on another machine or the bios password reset by shorting out 2 pins on the motherboard (I think).
60 • Debian based distros (by derm on 2010-07-06 15:29:46 GMT from Ireland)
Aurora OS 4 Beta 1 is now just Debian based afaik, to correct the image caption in New Distros. I'm really looking forward to the new release as I have been using it since v2 on my netbook. I installed the beta to a memory stick but have only had time to properly try it out once a few months ago.
@58 Nobody had mentioned cutting edge in relation to rolling distros following Debian Testing. Probably because most people don't want 'breaking edge', I for one have stuck to Debian Testing after having tried Ubuntu, Archlinux and a few others.
@43 I too had been a long time KDE fan but had pinned it to 3.5 when Testing moved over to KDE4. I tried it on a clean install back then and again a few weeks ago when I eventually got tired of not being able to easily try the new Digikam and Amarok but found it still lacking features (such as knetwork system connections and Amarok transcoding) and occassionally hanging. I tried LXDE and loved it (still don't like Gnome) as it had the killer features of being able to resize windows with Alt+Right Mouse and application specific keep above/undecorate configuring like KDE had. It is a LOT quicker than I thought it would be (I think I should be looking for bugs when it is able to shutdown in 2 seconds)
61 • RE:Rolling Release Hype (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-07-06 15:55:20 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure what the hype is with a rolling release system......Well I do really, but a rolling release is not a cure all. People believe that if they have a rolling release distro that they will not have any trouble with keeping up to date and that will have few problems. That's not exactly correct. You will have problems with a rolling release distro. You will have problems with updates not working or apps. not working after updates. You will have to reinstall your distro at some time. There is no getting around it. I have seen updates in rolling releases that were as big as a medium distro iso. I have seem some that were completely stable after 2 or more years and some didn't last even one year. Some do work better than others. For instance, Archlinux is pretty good at a rolling release, PclinuxOS is very bad. I've had to do more reinstalls because of a pclos rolling release than any other distro and that's not saying the distro is bad. A rolling release distro is what it is and I just don't think it's very stable or not stable enough for me. And no I don't upgrade every 6 months because I just don't seem to need to. On the matter of Mint having a Debian based rolling release, I think that it's great. Of course I would never use it where I needed a stable system but it would be fun to play with and I believe that is where Clem is headed and it wouldn't be smart to do otherwise. On the subject of a Gnome BSD system I would love to try one as an install on a hd. I've wondered several times why there has been no development for a Gnome install of a BSD system. I'm looking forward to one.
62 • KMint on Debian and Rolling Release (by rec9140 on 2010-07-06 16:38:48 GMT from United States)
A KMint based on Debian with Rolling Releases would be GREAT but....
If its in any X flavor other than KDE, I won't test or use, and especially anything from one particular X WM.
Another issue is package availability for apt, it would need to be equal or better, to the available *buntu apt repos. Otherwise this would be a huge disaster.
Which I can think of some issues with a few packages I use due to various issues that removes features.
63 • Mint and Debian (by Darkman on 2010-07-06 19:23:46 GMT from United States)
What a great combination!
64 • @54, @59 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 19:46:45 GMT from Canada)
@54, Mint is trying to improve Ubuntu. Sure, it's trying to make Ubuntu more newbie friendly by putting in codecs and making the package managing system more similar to having Windows .exe files, but you're never going to become a distro in your own right until you are completely independant and create your own base. Even Ubuntu is not a distro in it's own right because it takes so much from Debian. Ubuntu would be nothing without Debian, Mint would be nothing without Ubuntu. Distros like Debian, Slackware, RedHat etc. are distros in their own right because they are truly independant and don't rely on a base from another distro. I do agree with you in that I'm tired of dealing with the garbage that people put into Ubuntu but Clem screws up a lot of things with Mint as well, especially his extremely foolish decision to start creating DVD size ISO's. All in all, I am trying to start using independant distros on my Linux boxes to try and support the base distros and to do my part to stop all these idiots from creating a million different distros. If Linux is to succeed in the future, we have to limit the number of distros. Imagine going from the hundreds of distros out there to say 5. All the developers of the hundreds of distros could work to create 5 properly functioning distros so that people could finally get a Linux that could work right and actually compete with the Windows and MacOS markets. Right now, with Ubuntu based on Debian, Mint based on Ubuntu, Peppermint based on Mint... just stop everyone!! Seriously!! We have too many distros already, quit making your own and instead contribute to one that already exists.
As for @59, password protecting the BIOS is one of the best ways of protecting your stuff out there, if not the best way. If you have things that are too sensitive for a BIOS password, you ought to take out all the network cards in the computer, and store the tower in a locked safe or something. Sure, the password can be reset by removing the CMOS battery or the hard drive taken out and put in another machine but seriously, if you're giving someone enough time to open up your tower and either remove the hard drive or the battery, then nothing out there is going to protect your stuff, if they have enough time to do those things they have enough time to put together sophisticated encryption cracker and break your encryption anyway. Either way, anything that I have that's sensitive I keep in a box hidden in my house and another copy at the bottom of a locked drawer at work. Other than that, in this day and age of social networking and online banking and everything, there is no such thing as privacy anymore, and people should quit thinking that there is. Anything and everything you do is easily viewed by someone so if you're worried about sensitive stuff, a computer is not the tool for you.
65 • gOS (by Jeff on 2010-07-06 20:36:59 GMT from United States)
What has happened to "The Good OS" (gOS) The website is almost dead with no updates etc... the forums are becoming forums for advertisers etc... ANY WORD? It was a promising os to say the least....
66 • @64 (by Jesse on 2010-07-06 20:45:47 GMT from Canada)
The idea a distro shouldn't be considered a complete distro if it relies on another project flies heavily in the face of the open source model. A huge selling point to working in the open source community is the reuse of resources. Having a small independent distro isn't any better (or worse) than having one based on another project. As long as the code stays open and the patches make it back upstream, everyone is still benefiting. You're also making the assumption that having a lot of developers on a few projects would be helpful. This isn't usually the case. Increasing the number of contributors on a project can help up to a point, but eventually it gets bogged down in processes and over-lap. Having people fork off in different directions allows GNU/Linux and its components be much more flexible.
Besides which, if we had just five distros, that would kill a lot of innovation. One of the great things about open source is its ability to fill niche cases. Knoppix, Clonezilla, GParted Live.... to name a few, are important tools. They encourage Linux adoption by their unique usefulness.
As to the comment regarding the BIOS password: "if you're giving someone enough time to open up your tower and either remove the hard drive or the battery, then nothing out there is going to protect your stuff"
Opening a PC and resetting the BIOS password takes around five minutes. Extracting and taking an image of a drive takes maybe twenty minutes. Most of us leave our computers alone for over twenty minutes at a time. On the other hand, cracking the encryption on a hard drive, even by brute forcing the password, can take years. If you want to keep the contents of your drive private, a BIOS password isn't really helping any.
67 • Linux Mint (by Anonymous on 2010-07-06 21:27:49 GMT from Italy)
Linux Mint based off Debian Testing?
That would be great and would have all my support.
Debian testing has so much potential as a base for derivatives, but there aren't many: only Parsix, AFAIK.
But Parsix has failed to win a large user base, maybe because it doesn't add much to its parent distro.
68 • RE: 46 - 50 - 65 - 66 (by Landor on 2010-07-06 21:41:31 GMT from Canada)
#46
But who can say what's on a person's mind, or how things will change. A lot of people talk about discouragement with Ubuntu. They may not be the majority of course but when you fail to hear the cries of a few you could easily find yourself behind the times when it's the many. I guess we can agree to disagree on this topic as I see it as a "potential" fall back plan for the future, if the need arises. If I remember correctly we've heard similar statements as well (I can't remember the distribution(s) ) from the Mint Camp about creating other flavours of Mint based on other distributions. So in essence, this really isn't anything new either, as I said, if I remember correctly.
#50
I couldn't agree more with the dev's statement, or yours. People like to say using a myriad of distributions doesn't teach you much, sticking with one teaches you a lot. I disagree with that to a point, sticking with one can teach you a lot about Unix/Linux but it truly depends on the distribution you've decided to stick with.
#65
I thought of this in regard to cloud computing. gOS was considered "revolutionary" by some with all the Google Apps and such, it's went the way of the dinosaurs though it seems. I see any distribution jumping on this kind of niche area doing the same. I really don't believe people are ready to give in to a completely new way of computing and it's only a profit scheme generated by various corporations to make some attempt to pull more profits out of a very limited landscape. A fine example of this is Netbooks. There may have been tons of sales for them and people are creating a low-cost computing option, but netbooks are for a niche group in my opinion. I also believe tablets will be the same. Another example that proves this are HTPCs. How many people actually build HTPCs in comparison to overall computer users world-wide. Very niche oriented. But now I'm straying from the whole point. :)
#66
I think very few projects that are niche based or extremely small in the amount of developers do very little, or anything to provide upstream support in the way of bug fixes or the like, on any measurable scale that is. Also, what does upstream denote? Does it mean the parent, or an application in the parent? How many smaller distributions actually bug-fix upstream problems on the application level. There's a great question there that I think many wouldn't like the answer to.
On the bios topic I think setting the password is the very first part of an important line of defense in deterring individuals from accessing your information. The subject may be in the context of a system being stolen, but there are other times when your system has been walked away from and you may not want anyone being able to access it. The bios password in such a scenario is an integral part of the solution and one that I definitely use in that "line of defense". :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
69 • @64, 66 Distro Dilution (by merlin on 2010-07-06 21:51:31 GMT from Canada)
In my opinion some of these Debian/Ubuntu derivatives should simply make available a tasksel task or metapackage that you can download and apply to your Debian/Ubuntu system. Heck, even include their own artwork and make their own website if it makes them feel more independent and important.
I think Jesse's comment regarding number of people on a project is called Brooke's Law.
I agree with Jesse regarding disk encryption being better than a bios password.
70 • Security and Bios passwords (by Barnabyh on 2010-07-06 23:05:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
The good thing is it doesn't have to be one or the other. If you feel you have sensitive stuff on your hd, or are just a very private or paranoid person, use all methods, incl. encryption and passwords as first line of defence.
Of course not so good when wife or girl friend also want to use it sometimes.
But definitely set a short time out for the screensaver and make it pwd only to get back in, and lock your screen the moment you walk away if that's important to you.
There's also a good solution to the danger of someone taking out your drive or resetting the CMOS- get a case that can be locked like the old Chieftec Dragon or other, usually server, cases. It will at least make it more difficult again, and quite a good deterrent short of somebody actually carrying your computer away.
71 • Bug fixes (by Jesse on 2010-07-07 00:13:12 GMT from Canada)
In regards to comment 68:
"How many smaller distributions actually bug-fix upstream problems on the application level. There's a great question there that I think many wouldn't like the answer to."
I can't speak for all projects, but I've found (unexpectedly) that smaller distributions tend to be better at coordinating with upstream. Granted, as Landor said, smaller projects often don't have the resources to _fix_ upstream bugs, but I've personally found they're a lot better at coordinating bug reports and sharing patches than big projects.
I receive a lot more assistance from projects like Zenwalk, GeexBox and PC-BSD than I do from bigger names like Fedora, Debian or Ubuntu. I think it's because, in some cases, packages in larger distros get quietly orphaned or simply lost in the massive collection of work. In the smaller projects, I think the devs tend to be more aware of the whole system, rather than their small piece of it.
It's probably not the same for everyone, but in my experience, the smaller distros are better at communicating with upstream. That isn't as nice as getting a patch, but knowing there is a bug is half the battle.
72 • @45 Debian Does Too.. (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 00:25:51 GMT from United States)
Debian stable branch, the installer gives choices for LVM and LUKS.
I know, I have used them both, on the same installation.
I currently use LVM with a dozen LVM partitions.
I do like the: "at my whim resizing capabilities".
It's there and it works....
73 • Too many distros!???!? (by rec9140 on 2010-07-07 00:39:38 GMT from United States)
" just stop everyone!! Seriously!! We have too many distros already, quit making your own and instead contribute to one that already exists."
OK.... Sure... I will contribute...but my distro only wants persons involved who are in the same "mind set" ie: want to use WINE, mono and crap that I do NOT want anything to do with...So no contribution(s) from me. Many have offered to be testers for them.. NOPE... the "cliche" is all that is accepted to test... you unwashed masses can test an RC when its 99.999999999% ready to be a release. More involvement from the community would be a lot better... but don't mention it... as you will be ignored or comments moderated away.
And you guessed it I am planning on going my own way... I will take the KMint base and create what I need for me and some others...
No won't be submitting it to DW, probably won't be distributed outside a mere handful.
"Clem screws up a lot of things with Mint as well, especially his extremely foolish decision to start creating DVD size ISO's. "
Why is this foolish? ? I think its GREAT... the ONLY issue I have with it is that the KMint DVD's are NOT FULL to the BRIM! Waste of 3GB of valuable DVD space for more software...
I do agree that there are too many distros and would be better to have A LOT less. I agree...to a point... for wider acceptance and penetration on the personal desktop will require a change that most in the Linux community want nothing to do with,
74 • "Just 5 distros in instead of 100." (by sirkit77 on 2010-07-07 01:16:27 GMT from United States)
We already have that. It`s called Windows.
75 • RE: 71 (by Landor on 2010-07-07 03:06:34 GMT from Canada)
Maybe not the same topic but I already mentioned Aurora in my first post, and pointed out their work on the power-management for Netbooks. I'll have to concede the point that small groups/distributions can and do create innovation and help out upstream, as well as overall.
A side note for those that are interested, and further on the work of Aurora and power management, I installed their .rpm of the Jupiter Applet on Fedora 12 which now is my main install on my Asus eee 1005HA. I was pleasantly surprised. People can take this as a measure or not but I installed the Firefox ReloadEvery addon and set it to reload a page every 30 seconds. Then I let the Netbook run from a full charge until it shutdown on its own and saw a full 7 hours out of the charge on power-saving mode. That was with wireless running and no screensaver or manual setting of dimming and such active.
As I said, I was pleasantly surprised since it was the best I've seen from the 1005HA for battery life.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
76 • Is Stuart Winter a "Power Geek" or Not? (by RO on 2010-07-07 03:59:31 GMT from United States)
It seems odd that he complains about distros like Ubuntu being dumbed down, but then complains about it not "letting" him "su -" to root. Uh, does he not know about "sudo su -" like a good *n*x geek?
I was annoyed at first by Ubuntu's philosophy in this respect, but then realized it would slow down the newbies from inflicting too much self-damage in that respect, but not the rest of us who have learned a few things, and can use that trick to set the root password (needed for those times like disk repair when the fsck road block demands the root password to fix it, or ctrl-D to continue along hopefully with the system disk/partition in an unknown state...).
Installing/tweaking Ubuntu Server can get one reasonably close to the bare metal, but of course Slackware takes that to an extreme that appeals to a certain DIY type I suppose - more power to them (literally). I tend to take the middle road of going with the flow when it flows, and taking charge when it gets backed up - "don't sweat the small stuff".
I do cringe when I read in Linux Journal each month the kernel update column, "diff -u", about all the removal of old device support that rather belies Winter's confidence in Linux always supporting older gear. My collection of older equipment gets further and further behind that trend - only leaving frozen linux kernel/library setups (or Windows) sometimes to keep it running (I suppose that is small stuff I do like to sweat over sometimes ;-) .
FWIW
77 • RE (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 04:40:02 GMT from Canada)
@ 66, I agree with you in the fact that the idea of open source is to build on something created by something else. And maybe I went to the extreme in suggesting only 5 distros, however, when you have hundreds of distros, some of them (like gOS as someone already said) die quickly after they start because of lack of devs, lack of funding etc. Some have uses like GParted and the other ones you mentioned. However, wouldn't it be better if the people who started gOS or Clonezilla simply wrote their tools into another distro to make that distro more appealing? Think about it, just gOS and Clonezilla, added to something like Debian would mean that Debian would get all the devs and users of those two distros, plus it's own initial group, plus all the funding and everything else. That way you wouldn't have a distro that dies or a distro that very few people use except in very rare circumstances. Over-lap could be easily solved by having coordinators making sure that the devs are working on specific areas where they are most comfortable. Having 5 distros (or a few more, but less than hundreds and hundreds like we do now) would mean that you could still have some for different needs. Like have ONE netbook OS instead of dozens. Have ONE desktop instead of hundreds. Have ONE server with a few flavors to serve the different server needs out there... etc. Think of the unbelieveable benefit of having ONE netbook OS rather than all the different ones out there, can you imagine the possibilities!?!?
@70, For all the BIOS password vs. encryption vs. other methods of protecting data... look. If you have something that sensitive on your hard drive, then you work for some super secret government agency. 99% of people out there don't have things on their computers that anyone else is interested in. If you put your banking information in your computer for online banking, that's not sensitive, you're transferring it over the Internet which means it's visible to thousands of people in the world if they cared enough to look for it no matter what you do to protect it. No one cares about your pictures from your holiday to Florida, no one cares about your letters to your grandma, no one cares about all the other stuff that most people have on their computer, so why bother doing either method of protection, no one cares, and if they do, there's very little that any protection can do against someone who is interested enough in what you have. As for the lock on the case that you mentioned, come on, that's easier to break than a CMOS battery removal or a hard drive imaging!
@ 73, I'm not sure if your comments were meant to make mine look stupid or not, but you perfectly described the attitude of some of the smaller distros that I was annoyed at. Most WILL turn away people of a different mindset (and then those ones go on to each create their own distro, hense the billion Ubuntu versions we have out there lol), lots of people who try and suggest things ARE ignored or have their comments deleted, half my comments on Distrowatch even get deleted, this is a good week lol! And then yes, a lot don't submit it to indexing sites, most simply prefer to create it for themselves and a few others... come on! Add to the base distro instead of creating your own thing! As for Clem and the DVD ISO's, I have said this hundreds of times on Distrowatch and other forums but no one seems to listen to me or the tons of other people that agree with me... what about people who don't have fast Internet connections and don't feel like buying the disks? Who wants to spend days downloading a DVD ISO (or in some cases more than one DVD worth) of data in order to run a LiveDVD to test if their hardware works or not? No one wants to sit and downlaod an ISO for days to test it out, only to find it doesn't work. Lots of people would like it if they could set a CD download going over dinner and then test it in the evening or with a slower connection, start the download and then test the next day... no one wants to wait for days for something to finish. I agree with you that it's a big problem that the DVD's aren't full. I think I would have less of a problem with DVD ISO's if they were full of useful tools, however, just try an install of Ubuntu Ultimate. It is filled to the brim with tons and tons of overlap in terms of applications, and in the end, it's no better than a plain install of Ubuntu! The developer of that must be insane, and the users even more so!
@ 74, Yes, it is called Windows, and why do you think it's had so much more success over the years than Linux? Exactly because they focus on being everything, to everyone, and for the most part, they do a good job which is why they still have majority market share by a long shot despite failures like Vista. Your comment simply proves my point even though you didn't intend to... you would only have a valid point if Linux had long since overtaken Windows as the majority OS. Thanks for helping prove my point lol.
78 • Re: 77 (by jake on 2010-07-07 05:16:24 GMT from United States)
"Your comment simply proves my point even though you didn't intend to..."
Uh ... no, that particular comment doesn't. Have you tried to freely download the latest OS from Redmond on your proverbial dial-up connection? Kinda makes your argument moot, from several different directions, no?
79 • that elusive laptop sleep (by gnomic on 2010-07-07 05:56:15 GMT from New Zealand)
Hooray, we have a winner! I've been frustrated by various distros trying to sleep laptops, but failing miserably. It's with great pleasure I can announce that a Puppy called Quirky Retro has reliably accomplished the feat of sleeping and waking a ThinkPad Z60m. Quirky is one of Mr Kauler's latest creations, the retro bit in this case is the 2.6.30.5 kernel as opposed to the 2.6.33 in the non-retro version.
Plaudits also to Fedora 13 in the Gnome edition which likewise accomplished the feat of sleeping and waking a ThinkPad in a live session. Now that's what I call progress!
80 • 5 Distros? (by meanpt on 2010-07-07 09:39:33 GMT from Portugal)
:):):) ... let me see ... Mum$soft, only for the 7 thing, has the starter, the home premium, the Ultimate, the Enterprise (ok, this one is Ultimate but it sold as a entreprise fit), and I'm missing maby some Pro edition elswhere. Looking back, the old XP with all their variants, they seem countless. Vista is still there on lots of machines. No, I'm not going to count its variants too. And you may start doubling all those if you treat the 64 bit products separately. By the way, don't forget this is a corporation with streamlining objectives and accountablity responsabilities in mind. Oh, wait, and there is also that mobile thing. I'm lost in my accounting. How many distros are we talking of? Does it fit us all? Seems not. Then you have the Mac OS serials.
And there is freedom, the social and individual intangible we use to think, create, invent and show. There is also the freedom to choose, adopt, support or deny. Oh ... and there is also the unpredictable technology moving at a fast pace ... so, 5 distros sounds like 5 artists, 5 brains, 5 parents to populate this world, 5 movies to be seen by all of us, 5 languages to be spoken, 5 cultures, 5 countries ... we do have 5 fingers in one hand but when we count all the fingers in one body it makes at least 20 :) .. .... in a family of 4 it makes 80, ...
81 • " (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 11:22:18 GMT from Germany)
A quote from this weeks news section:
"Ubuntu in particular wouldn't let me 'su -' to root! " (Stuart Winter, a Slackware developer)
I'm so sick of reading that particular complaint again and again.
sudo -i
Done.
82 • Merging (by Jesse on 2010-07-07 11:59:16 GMT from Canada)
>> However, wouldn't it be better if the people who started gOS or Clonezilla simply wrote their tools into another distro to make that distro more appealing?
No, not really. Tools like Clonezilla and GParted Live and other niche projects are appealing because you can get one small tool on a a small CD image. It takes a few minutes to download and you can use the tool without extra cruft and clutter. Adding those projects to a big distro, like Debian, instead of offering them separately would be like asking someone to install an entire kitchen to use a toaster. It would make the tools more complex to use and the downloads bigger.
That being said, I would like to see more sharing and integration. I think a new distro should bring something new to the table. Hopefully something that can be adopted by other distros.
One of the reasons so many of these little projects exist is it can be difficult to join and contribute to larger distributions. Smaller distros often appear when a developer wants to change something in the parent distro and gets told they're not interested. Different projects aim at different markets. SliTaz is a great mini-distro, for example, but it aims at a completely different group of people than Fedora, Ubuntu, etc.
>> If you have something that sensitive on your hard drive, then you work for some super secret government agency. 99% of people out there don't have things on their computers that anyone else is interested in. If you put your banking information in your computer for online banking, that's not sensitive, you're transferring it over the Internet which means it's visible to thousands of people in the world if they cared enough to look for it no matter what you do to protect it.
I'm sorry, but I can't for the life of me figure out where you're coming form with this. Many people do have sensitive information on their computers they don't want the rest of the world to see. Tax information, SSN (SIN) numbers, cached credit card data, order numbers, their resume with addresses and phone numbers. Business documents... Most people have sensitive info on their computers they don't want shared with the world. And banks (all the ones I've encountered) use encryption. So the data you're transmitting over the net is scrambled. It doesn't matter if someone is snooping, because they won't see the contents of your messages to/from the bank. My bank card, username and password info is important to me, which is why I use SSL.
83 • RE:64,77 An Impossible Dream (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-07-07 12:26:10 GMT from United States)
While that may seem like a simple fix to many It would be impossible to implement in the real world of open source. You mention the Microsoft operating system as an example of success in this regard. They are in no way shape or form similar to each other in their licenses or in their business model. MS Windows is a closed source, proprietary system that is tightly regulated. The devs and others are employed and paid by MS to do a certain task that has been laid down by the chain of command. The bottom line is profit. The open source world was simply not created for such a model. You cannot have software freedom when you start to limit what a person can do with the code base. When people discover the freedom they have with free and open source software they want to make it their own. Can you blame them? This is freedom denied by closed source systems. This freedom tends to make a person excited and they want to use this freedom the way they never could before, and they should. This is one of the reasons you will always see many, many different distributions, projects, and ideas coming from the free and open source world. This model may not be best for a general commercial success (MS Windows) but it can be a commercial success. (Red Hat) The best thing we can do is to use this freedom to help however we can in the open source world and not have the pipe dream of living in a very limited closed source world. We will be happier for it.
84 • waking a Thinkpad (by subg on 2010-07-07 13:10:56 GMT from Canada)
@79: add the Peppermint respin to that list - live CD, no less, and using an up-to-date kernel. Excellent wireless support too on the occasional-use machines used with the CD so far.
85 • Too many Distro's, Mint and stuff (by davemc on 2010-07-07 14:49:28 GMT from United States)
#77 - As much as I hate to respond to Anonymous posts, I find your enthusiasm to stifle innovation alarming. People create new Distros because they want to do things in a different way than the parent distro, and which the parent distro and its supporters will not countenance. Sure, arguably most of these spinoffs will not survive, but some few will and for good reason. This is exactly how things work in the free market. Its how Linux will evolve to the next level, and always many steps ahead of all other OS's - especially proprietary model OS's. You could argue that these people could just put their innovations forward within an existing base, but this is not possible. Bases like Debian and Red Hat and Slackware will not change how they do things and they wont change their philosophies to suit a few rogue developers that have an itch to scratch, and that itch could very well become the next major innovation that will rock the Linux world, ala Linux Mint, or Ubuntu, or Mepis, etc. etc. This is the whole point of Open Source and GNU. What you propose is for us all to fit into the proprietary model, and that is just not how we roll in the big bad world of FOSS and runs counter to many core beliefs in the Free Software philosophy.
On the subject of Mint + Debian testing. Its a good idea, if not an impossible one. Like many have testified here, I don't think there is a sensible way of handling updates on a day to day basis without system breakage. Better to base it on Debian stable and allow for Debian testing repo's to be enabled by the user at his/her own peril, but also allow for the process of upgrading to cutting edge apps to be easier and somewhat safer ala Mint style. Probably the best way to go about doing this would be to have Mint stable repos for tried/true/Mint certified Debian testing bases or snapshots at various intervals that users can access/upgrade to on a rolling basis but will not always be in sync with Debian testing repo's.
86 • Why Can't I Post? (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 16:09:11 GMT from Canada)
I was about to reply to all the people who replied to me about Windows and free software and all that. I wrote my post out in Gedit so as to properly respond to all the posts of others, tried to copy and paste it in here, like I've done with all the rest of my posts, and yet no matter what I do it won't let me post. Chances are this won't even post. Distrowatch, you might want to figure out what's wrong with your comment section. I will save my document and try and post back later when you get your act together.
87 • crunchbang (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-07 17:23:45 GMT from Korea, Republic of)
Just a comment about crunchbang alpha2. I installed it today, it took me all morning because I had some strange thing going on with grub2 but it was probably my own fault. So far I am very pleased. This alpha version looks ready to go to me. I will have to run it for about a week to see if anything falls apart but first impression is good.
88 • @78, @80 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 17:30:37 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (troll, off-topic).
89 • @82 Pt. 1 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 17:32:53 GMT from Canada)
@82, Your comment about installing a kitchen to use a toaster makes sense, except what if the kitchen was there already, with a toaster already sitting on the counter? That's my point. The individual would be using this ideal distro on his home desktop computer. When he needs too use a specific tool on his computer or a friends computer or whatever else, he takes his install disk for the ideal distro that he already has sitting there since he installed it on his home computer, and then just boots to the live disk and boots into Cloenzilla or GParted etc. rather than booting to Ideal Distro or just plain installing it. As for the incredibly arrogant individuals heading larger distros that might not accept ideas from a simple home user for example? Those individuals should be removed from their position heading the distro and should be replaced by someone more open to change. EVERY distro ought to be open to change. NO ONE is too good to listen to the ideas of someone else although too many people in the open source community think they are better than everyone else.
90 • AGAIN!? (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 17:36:37 GMT from Canada)
Thank-you so much Distrowatch, you let me post part of my comments and now again I can't post anything. Can you PLEASE fix this issue so that I can contribute on here? And if you don't want me contributing then delete my comments like you usually do each week and that will tell me to leave this comments section till next week when maybe, just maybe, someone is going to be polite enough to not just offer their opinion, but also listen to the opinions of others.
91 • @ 82 Pt. 2 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 17:38:44 GMT from Canada)
As for encryption, so what if a bank uses encryption, you could have a keylogger on your system or some other form of spyware (don't even try and get me started on malware in Linux, any OS is able to get malware, Linux may be less likely due to the way it's built but if someone tried, they could. The best defense, more than any antimalware solution or OS is to be smart online. You can be stupid online in Linux and have more problems than someone being smart online using Windows without any antimalware solution at all.) There are all sorts of ways that despite encryption during the transfer process or whatever, that the data can still be seen by many. For example, my bank has a computer sitting in the lobby for people to do their online banking on. It runs XP and it's changed so that you can't access any programs other than IE, whose homepage is the online banking website. However, when I tried to use it, I continually got pop-up adds, the homepage was set to an adult site even though that's not possible for the user to change, I kept getting my pages hijacked etc. There was malware on that computer. Any user coming into that bank to use that computer, assuming that a computer at a bank is going to have proper protection on it, could easily have their information stolen. The point I'm trying to get across is that no matter what method you use for protection, you still can't be safe 100% of the time online, even the FBI or the CIA has been hacked on occasion and they probably use the most sophisticated protection methods known to mankind. So please don't tell me that you have ways of preventing people from seeing your stuff, and if you are that concerned about people seeing it, let me say again that you should not be using a computer for it, you should store your documents in paper form somewhere safe. You don't have to bank online, you can bank at your bank or by phone. You don't have to do taxes online, many people still do it using the actual forms. Resume's don't have to be stored on a computer, you can print them out and photocopy it when you need to hand it out, business documents should be stored at work at which point it's your employers responsibility to protect it... the list could go on.
92 • @ 83, @ 85 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 17:39:40 GMT from Canada)
@83, Microsoft Windows is a success because of those things you mentioned. Closed source, proprietary system, devs do certain tasks so there is no over-lap etc. Even if the bottom line is profit, for the end user that doesn't matter. Microsoft can be trying to make money but in the process still create the best OS in the world to date and probably for some time to come. I'm not saying Linux should go closed source or that they should make the bottom line profit, but I'm saying that a company whose founder is worth over 50 billion USD is obviously a great success story, and Linux, who has been trying to get out of the gutter for years now, is obviously not as great a success. We in the Linux community need to take notice and learn what other people are doing right if we are to ever amount to anything. If the goal of Linux is to maintain next to no market share and just be a hobby for a few select people, then fine, keep doing what you're doing. But if the goal is ultimately to make a year in the future the "year of Linux" as people keep writing about in blogs and articles, then we need to change the way we do things. People in the Linux community are still talking as optimistically as they did 10 years ago but what's changed in 10 years? 10 years ago we were fairly new and could be optimistic about one day overtaking Microsoft, having the majority market share and allowing all computer users the ability to enjoy software freedom. But the reality is that that dream hasn't been realized. Many people that want software freedom try Linux and realize that it's no where near ready for adoption by the masses, so they reluctantly go out and buy the latest version of Windows. Don't try and fool yourselves that the year of Linux is fast approaching. We've been talking that way for years and it's not going to happen till we change.
@85, "Its how Linux will evolve to the next level, and always many steps ahead of all other OS's - especially proprietary model OS's" Are you kidding me!? Linux is a million years behind Windows which is a proprietary model OS. Just read back over my comments in this post and you will see abundant proof that we are light years behind Windows. The current way that Linux is operated is going to keep it many steps BEHIND all other OS's.
93 • @92 • (by Anonymous (by meanpt on 2010-07-07 18:10:58 GMT from Portugal)
... it seems you're younger than the IBM DOS Box. Cause that's where the "success" began. The rest of the success was staying there but it has more to do with a jerky apple, the lack of entrepreneurship of some copier's company owned lab (you know, the same thing tha makes people creating distro as their own endeavour instead of agreeing with what others say how they want it), and with politics that had nothing to do with the "goodness" of the thing. For sure if it wasn't companies like IBM, Microsoft and later Compaq and many others (Toshiba and so on), we wouldn't be here using linux with our relatively cheap computers. The current problem has more to with the Monopolistic situation in a Market where historical Standards and Culture legacy feeds the situation. Even if Microsoft disapeared from one day to the other Windows would be the standard for many years.
94 • RE:92 Proof Not Giving of Being Serious (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-07-07 18:22:39 GMT from United States)
Why do you want Linux to be like Windows? I don't think you want anything to do with Linux, BSD or any open source project. I probably know more about MS Windows than most people and I'm sure I know more than you. You are just being dishonest when you talk about the superiority of Windows over a Linux system. It is a great success story for a proprietary system and the system is not what made Bill Gates somewhat of a success. It was the business deals, nothing to do with the software. I have come to the realization that you are not someone who cares about free and open source software in the least and you have no proof of anything to contradict that. You have proved that you don't know the true facts about the open source community or its skills. I am also convinced that you have no experience even dealing with this fine community. That is why you post as anonymous. Please don't troll here.
95 • Number of Distros, Linux Success, etc. (by Bruce on 2010-07-07 18:35:15 GMT from United States)
If you define success only by numbers and adoption on the desktop, then yes, we are at the back of the line. This link shows Windows at about 90%, Linux at 4-5%, and MAC OSX about 6-7%. (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp). Success can't just be measured by numbers however. Rather, success should be determined by how well performance matches design. Perhaps a question for the community is to ask what the goals of Linux are. Seeing it only as a free alternative to Windows or OSX is selling it short I think. Why is usage so high on the server compared to the desktop?
Linux moves development and control into the open so anyone can participate (thus so many distros) and by nature will not be cohesive. That's not bad, just different. The analogy may be off, but look at the helicopter versus the plane. The helicopter is much more maneuverable than the plane but considerably less stable. That doesn't make one a success and the other a failure, or vice versa, because both perform as designed.
96 • Number of Distros, Linux Success, etc (Pt.2) (by Bruce on 2010-07-07 18:38:27 GMT from United States)
... forgot to include @92...
97 • new Meant project (by forlin on 2010-07-07 18:40:06 GMT from Portugal)
This is one more here who would like to see the Mint community to do something new, something different, and something important, with an eye in the future. So far it's the biggest Linux private community, by large. This gives a good chance to attract new developers, depending on how exciting a new project could seem. Going for a new distro based on Debian, and Sid to be closer to mainstream, its a possibility. But what I would really appreciate was to see the the foundations of a completely new independent Distro. They do not need to start big from the first day or even at short to medium term. All would run in parallel with the actual core Bunto activity. It's many years since we do not see the grow of a big new independent project, like Slackware, Gentoo or Arch, and it seems to me that at present days Mint is the only community who could put together the required resources for this to happen.
98 • Safety (by Jesse on 2010-07-07 18:54:18 GMT from Canada)
>> . So please don't tell me that you have ways of preventing people from seeing your stuff, and if you are that concerned about people seeing it, let me say again that you should not be using a computer for it, you should store your documents in paper form somewhere safe.
Security isn't an absolute matter of being secure or not being secure. It's a matter of layers and probability. Using non-standard ports, encryption, firewalls and such are all methods in place to try to make breaking into a computer harder, not impossible.
Saying computers are insecure and shouldn't be used for sensitive work completely ignores two obvious points:
1. Some work (such as web development, computer security, big number crunching, code breaking) needs to be done on a computer.
2. Paper locked in a safe isn't absolutely secure either.
You suggest people not do their taxes on-line, but it's very easy to intercept mail. It's possible to steal a safe. More people have the knowledge to steal bank and credit cards than know how to break computer security. Moving your life off-line will not protect you from security problems, just shift the focus. The same applies to doing business on-line. There are risks and methods of protection... just like any other aspect of life.
99 • @ 94, 95 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 19:09:24 GMT from Canada)
@94, I would challenge you to not make assumptions. I post as anonymous because when I used to use my name, the moderators of this fine website used to block my comments after just noticing my name, not even bothering to read if I had something useful to say or not. People don't like me because I'm challenging Linux to grow. I want a lot to do with Linux, BSD and open source, and I have a lot of experience dealing with the Linux community. I have tried the majority of the distros on the Distrowatch top 100 list, at least any that are designed for desktop home users. I am involved in quite a few distros forums as well, both to ask questions and help others. I am also very involved in some Windows and Mac forums as well. I have a fair bit of experience as well in Windows and OSX and I wouldn't be so arrogant if I were you in thinking you know more than me. Just because I'm challenging you doesn't mean I'm stupid. If I were trolling then you could ask me to stop, however, what you see as trolling, I see as an attempt at creating a good discussion. I get frustrated each week at the Linux community that I see represented on Distrowatch and at many people that I see in the Linux forums that I participate in. However, none of that is going to prevent me from continuing on and trying to do my best for the community, including challenging those who dislike a challenge.
@95, I disagree with your definition of success. You can have the most amazing idea for a product on the market but manufacture it poorly and advertise it poorly and have few users of the product and this will make you a failure. Linux and open source in general is a fantastic idea for technology, but it's manufactured poorly so that it only works in limited situations, and it's not adopted because of it's lack of ability to function in places where Windows and OSX thrive. It's a great idea but poorly managed up till this point. So why keep banging our heads against the same brick wall, why not try and find a way around that wall, try and find a way to make Linux a success? And I will be the first to admit that Linux use is higher on the server than the desktop but we don't have near a majority on the server either and there are just as many stories of people switching away from Linux on a server in favor of Windows or something else, as there are people switching to Linux on their servers. Windows has a well manufactured and well marketed server product. And your statement about Linux functioning as it was designed to be, fine, maybe I'm mistaken and Linux really is living up to it's goals. Howevver, like I said in a previous post, I read all over the forums and blogs and newsletters about the year of desktop Linux. People say it's coming and it hasn't yet and it won't for quite some time. Maybe those people are all wrong too and no one in the Linux community really desires a year that desktop Linux makes it's big break.
100 • @Anonymous from Canada (by Patrick on 2010-07-07 19:19:28 GMT from United States)
I should know better than to feed the trolls, but here it goes.
All the measures of success you mention, like being the biggest, making the most money, etc, don't mean hardly anything in the open source world. I think that is at the root of your confusion: you think that Linux has a "goal" or that any developer really cares about a "year of Linux". This is not the case. Linux is an organic thing. It is adaptable, grows in unpredictable ways. If someone has an itch, they'll make something to scratch it, and if someone has the same itch, they will be able to use the same thing to scratch. There is no grand master plan involved. Only at the distro level is there any semblance of planning, I'd say.
The desktop distribution world is only a minor and quite insignificant slice of the whole open source ecosystem. No, I don't think that Linux will succeed anytime soon at displacing the incumbent monopolist on the desktop, mostly due to inertia. But then, the desktop is losing its importance, and fast. Your favorite monopolist that you seem to be holding up as an example to follow is absolutely nowhere at the places where the action is at now, like in Internet infrastructure and cell phones. Linux is also gigantic in embedded systems, and Windows CE is a joke. Just like IBM disappeared from the consumers eye, but still is a very successful company in its niche, so will Microsoft largely disappear from the consumers eye, but will continue to be quite successful in its niche as a desktop OS. It is just that less people will care about the desktop.
Believe me, the year of Linux has long come and is here to stay. It just wasn't where you were looking for it.
101 • Anonimous (by fernbap on 2010-07-07 19:28:15 GMT from Portugal)
After reading your posts, i am still in doubt about you being a genuine troll or just someone that completely bought corporate propaganda.
As much as i don't like answering to anonimous posts, some things seem to stand out:
1. You seem to defend the position that freedom of choice is a bad idea. Typically, any monopolistic company would agree with you. Better keep the public dumbed down and create the illusion that there is no choice.
2. You seem to think that offering a wide range of solutions is bad. You seem to think poorly on yourself and the public in general.
3. You showed very little knowledge of what Linux is, or even what an OS is supposed to be. You confuse an OS with a desktop, you confuse a package system with an OS. That's typical. Windows purposely presents the public with no choice whatsoever, and you think that is a good idea.
4. Your opinions on security also shows a lack of understanding on the basics of what the right to privacy is. Typically, you think that "why are you concerned on having no privacy? Only those that have something to hide think that way". I don't need to elaborate on that.
I suggest you to first:
1. Learn what Linux is
2. Learn about the basic rights every person is entitled to.
102 • @99 (by Bruce on 2010-07-07 19:29:22 GMT from United States)
So by that standard, would Ferrari, as a car, would be considered a failure but Honda a success? Would OSX, with usage close to that of Linux, also be considered a failure? Just questions...
As for the year of the Linux desktop I also wonder if it will ever come. As much as I am devoted to it and enjoy Linux, I think that for widespread adoption there might be too many compromises required, in terms of simplicity and commonality, that wouldn't be supported... But then again, I could be wrong. Vendors might just pick one distro (System76, Ubuntu) and run with it.
103 • Anonimous (by fernbap on 2010-07-07 19:29:35 GMT from Portugal)
It seems Patrick and me posted at the same time LOL
104 • GhostBSD (by Landor on 2010-07-07 22:02:38 GMT from Canada)
I finally had some time to take a look at GhostBSD. I noticed it was fairly lean in the application department for one but ran well, at least in a VM.
One thing I couldn't deal with, and ended up shutting it down over it, was the green theme. I'm not a fan of green but I can tolerate the colour. Yet, with GhostBSD it actually hurt my eyes to look at it. I felt like I was straining the whole time. Did anyone else have a problem with keeping their eyes focused on the desktop or felt they were straining?
You have to keep in mind too, I have a 25 inch monitor on the machine I tested it on (this one) and that could have made the difference in brightness and such than someone with a smaller monitor, though I've never had this issue come up before.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
105 • ... eh ... hum ... what if ... (by meanpt on 2010-07-07 22:15:59 GMT from Portugal)
... all this discussion around linux brought me a sort of a futuristic interrogation: if the open community was to design right now a hardware and an OS that would fit together, without looking at legacy problems, how would it be? Would there be a disk, or would everything run on a huge RAM? ... which tecnology of ram would it be? With how many processors? Which processors? What would each processor do? What new techonolgies would see the day light? ... damned it ... so many questions ... :) ... maybe I'm a bit tired of the same DOS box type and the all same discussion around giga and tera disks, giga rams, giga processors, and now the giga graphics, always ominpresent in a viciuous circle of the same specification's headings, for more than ... ehhh ... I don't know, but many, many years ...
106 • 104 • GhostBSD (by Lando (by meanpt on 2010-07-07 22:29:15 GMT from Portugal)
Landor, I did try the distro many, many moons ago and was pleasantly suprised and excited for what it would offer as soon as the installer would be brought to the earth gents ,,, and didn't experience any problem with colors. As a human, I thought 9 months would be enough to see some results but ... well ... I'll check with my local zoo how long takes an elephant to breed ...
107 • @104 • GhostBSD (by Landor (by meanpt on 2010-07-07 23:00:18 GMT from Portugal)
... by the way, after checking my notes, the only problem I had was a faulting internet connection. The release I tested was the 1.0.
108 • Distros & Security (by Anonymous on 2010-07-07 23:56:12 GMT from United States)
Every time I try a new distro, usually a live version, I look at what it does and offers me.
Then I look at the packages involved or the /usr/bin directory listing.
Then I startup Aptitude on whatever Debian Stable I am using at the time.
I usually find that aside from the convienient live packaging, Debian's stable repsitories (including Non-Free) have the same or identical packages, just not grouped or configured exactly the same as the live distro I may be trying out.
To me this just means that I can eventually Apt-get the same capability on my main system. Or build my own custom CD.
So I agree that smaller projects really make it convienient to get certain jobs done. Just usually not the only way to get the functionality.
As for security online.
I seem to remember that Banks, etc, used to use leased private communication lines. This was very probably very expensive.
But this was also very private, not the Internet or WWW.
The use of Internet as I see it came about from cost cutting measures.
Yes encryption is a good thing, but isn't it usually specified in how long must the data be secret? Time required to break it?
I wonder how AES and others fare since some average people can now buy things like Nvidia Fermi or ATI FireStream processors.
I do know that AES's days are numbered and something better will replace it.
Just the same I'm not totally convinced that some Beowulf cluster out there isn't already cracking at any of this.
109 • peppermint OS (by zz on 2010-07-08 00:12:00 GMT from United States)
Installed peppermint on an old ibm thinkpad T-42 laptop. Everything worked sound, video, wireless. Very fast and stable. Highly recommend it.
110 • Too many distros!???!? (by rec9140 on 2010-07-08 00:19:05 GMT from United States)
" just stop everyone!! Seriously!! We have too many distros already, quit making your own and instead contribute to one that already exists."
OK.... Sure... I will contribute...but my distro only wants persons involved who are in the same "mind set" ie: want to use WINE, mono and crap that I do NOT want anything to do with...So no contribution(s) from me. Many have offered to be testers for them.. NOPE... the "cliche" is all that is accepted to test... you unwashed masses can test an RC when its 99.999999999% ready to be a release. More involvement from the community would be a lot better... but don't mention it... as you will be ignored or comments moderated away.
And you guessed it I am planning on going my own way... I will take the KMint base and create what I need for me and some others...
No won't be submitting it to DW, probably won't be distributed outside a mere handful.
"Clem screws up a lot of things with Mint as well, especially his extremely foolish decision to start creating DVD size ISO's. "
Why is this foolish? ? I think its GREAT... the ONLY issue I have with it is that the KMint DVD's are NOT FULL to the BRIM! Waste of 3GB of valuable DVD space for more software...
I do agree that there are too many distros and would be better to have A LOT less. I agree...to a point... for wider acceptance and penetration on the personal desktop will require a change that most in the Linux community want nothing to do with,
111 • about 88,89,91,92,99 (by forlin on 2010-07-08 00:48:52 GMT from Portugal)
- I don't need to download Windows, It comes on my system - many Linux do too.
- I don't have to reinstall every 6 months - Nor those that use a LTS.
- look at Windows XP... 98 - have you updates? - You can update Linux kernel w/o reboot.
- is using Linux as easy as using Windows XP? - Many find it more easy.
- distros that might not accept ideas from a simple home user - depends on the idea.
- NO ONE is too good to listen to the ideas of someone else...- we do listen to you.
- don't even try and get me started on malware in Linux - No. We had enough while at MS.
- you still can't be safe 100% of the time online, - That's written everywhere.
- a company whose founder is worth over 50 billion - At Linux success is by utility, not $
- overtaking Microsoft market share - Linux is not selling marketing.
- Linux is a million years behind Windows - No. they follow different directions.
- I'm challenging Linux to grow - Then, start writing some code.
As you see, we listen to you, but you could give us a break for a few weeks.
112 • @111 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-08 02:03:03 GMT from United States)
I totally agree!
- I don't have to reinstall every 6 months - Nor those that use a LTS.
This hard drive has had Debian stable since 2008, and no crashes or re-installs.
- is using Linux as easy as using Windows XP? - Many find it more easy.
I use Window Maker window manager and it is super quick and easy!
I use Win XP/9x at work and don't see their big advantage.
113 • @112 (by fernbap on 2010-07-08 02:18:32 GMT from Portugal)
How many times do i have to say that all you have to do is install /home on a separate partition? Then you can install (or not) whatever you want, the number of times you want, without losing any of your data or your settings.
The issue never was "having to reinstall". Why would you have to reinstall if your current system is working?
That is what Linux offers. Freedom of choice. Freedom to reinstall or not. Freedom to select a rolling or LTS release and not having to think about reinstalls. Or reinstall as often as you want.
I know, however, a lot of windows users that have to reinstall everything from time to time because their windows just became too slow/bloated/irresponsive or broke completely. Yes, windows users have to reinstall often. Not Linux users.
114 • @113 (by Brandon S. on 2010-07-08 02:27:43 GMT from United States)
Not all Windows users have to re-install their OS often. The system hasn't had a Windows re-install since I got this system back in 2007, only an upgrade (Vista > 7) without problems. I've re-installed Linux, but that's mainly to try out distros (currently openSUSE 11.3 RC2 and Kubuntu 10.04).
115 • Octupus chosing best Linux Distro (by Antonio on 2010-07-08 03:19:09 GMT from United States)
Due to the success rate of the octupus picking the winner in Germany's soccer matches, how about using the octupus to pick linux distros?
Sort of like create matches, and let it chose which is the better one? or which one wins?
Anybody out there would like to see which distro the Octupus picks?
I would do a Ubuntu vs Fedora, Fedora vs OpenSuse, Arch vs Slackware, Gentoo vs Debian, ..., setup as many matches and instead of flags(like national flags) use the distro logos and see which would be the overall champ?
Just a thought, I know that I might sound stupid but why not do it for fun?
116 • RE: 106 (by Landor on 2010-07-08 03:42:15 GMT from Canada)
Thanks for the reply. As I said, I've never had the problem before, it's probably the combination of greens that's causing it. I don't want to be rude against the dev either, I read him and his wife designed it. It just isn't nice with my eyes. :)
About installing it. This might be a bit of work for you, but a learning process too, why not create a VM or such with some free virtual hard drive space, create a slice (as they're called in BSD) and copy the whole file system from the cd to the hard drive, then add a boot loader (grub if you choose) and a few tweaks and you pretty well have BSD installed as the dev who built that live-cd chose it to be. :) It's a bit more complicated than that, but not much really. This option pretty well works on any live-cd there is.
Keep your stick n the ice...
Landor
117 • @116 (by Antonio on 2010-07-08 04:15:29 GMT from United States)
greens causing trouble? I thought brown was the color that caused some trouble?
But you are right about the installing issue, There was a project once that had the installation capability but had KDE as its desktop. FreeSBIE had XFCE but with no installer. This project looked interesting, but it does not have an installer. The OpenBSD livecd mentioned few distrowatch weeklys ago, had an installer but got OpenBSD devlopers because it did more things for users. I wanted to download that one, but the direct download was pulled and I can't use torrents(work does not allow them).
If one would like to dual boot say windows 7 and FreeBSD, we have to be careful because the FreeBSD loader screws the windows boot. It would be nice to have grub on FreeBSD to take care of this. Many users out there need to have Windows because of work, but otherwise would much prefer to use BSD or Linux more.
118 • RE (by Anonymous on 2010-07-08 04:35:42 GMT from Canada)
@100, If indeed you are correct, and Linux has no grand scheme, then I question what the point of using it is. If you are correct then the community is no better than a group of chickens running around with their heads cut off just prior to death. Therefore, with no grand scheme or plan or anything, it never actually will go beyond what it is now, it will never be adopted by the masses, it never will actually compete with Windows or OSX... it will maintain it's place at the bottom of the market share with little to no growth and remain used by only a select group of people but not the average person for a family computer. If you are indeed correct then I am sorry, I truly don't belong on a site like this or any Linux site in general. If you are correct then Windows or OSX is for me because they have organization and purpose and direction. If you are correct, then Linux has neither organization, nor purpose, nor direction. However, I do believe you are wrong, or at least I hope you're wrong.
@101, your post is hardly worth commenting on. You portray me as an idiot, you portray me as someone who knows nothing about computers or Linux or Windows or anything like that. I take offense at that since working on and fixing computer hardware and software is a large part of my job so I think I know quite a bit.
@102, I would consider Ferrari a success because they achieve what they seek to accomplish. Like I said in addressing a previous post, maybe I am incorrect as to what Linux's ultimate goal is but what I have gathered from my reading and research over the years, Linux is a far cry from even attempting to achieve any of it's goals, it seems to be stuck, not going anywhere, and no one in the community seems to care. But like I said, maybe I am wrong. OSX on the other hand, I would classify that as a failure as odd as that sounds. They tell everyone that they are a better option than Windows for the average home user on their computers and yet they can't make any significant growth in market share despite enormous failures on Microsoft's part like Vista. OSX has failed but they are at least trying still, something Linux cannot say for itself.
@111, Most systems these days come with Windows installed, not Linux, and every computer I have bought with Linux installed on it (5 in total), only one came working out of the box. The other 4, I had to work to get drivers working and programs and updates as well whereas when you buy a system with Windows on it, it's updated when you get it, drivers work and the programs preinstalled on it actually work. Maybe this is a failure on the part of the vendor selling the Linux boxes and not on the part of Linux itself but I think in general, the public prefers to have things working out of the box and not have to tinker as much as you do with a Linux install. As for reinstalls after 6 months, fine, I don't have to reinstall after 3 years like you do with LTS. As for ease of use, the people that find Linux easier are the ones that know their way around a computer. The vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue what to do with a Linux box because they are so used to their Windows OS, their Windows programs, their Windows files etc. Take mp3's for example. Many people have an mp3 collection for their mp3 player. I have yet to find a Linux that supports my mp3 player and I have tried many (iPod, Zune, Sansa, Zen), and most Linux OS's don't support mp3 format out of the box because of stupid license agreements. If Mint can do it, so can anything else. So with this lack of ability to manage mp3 files and players, who wants to use Linux when it's automatic in Windows?
@113, No, reinstalls are necessary because of user error. You could have a Windows system running fine for 10 years without incident if you keep up with defragging and using programs to clean out your registry, keep up with scanning for malware etc. In my experience, Linux is far worse than that because it's harder to clean things up like remnants left over from installs or uninstalls of programs, and you have the never ending concern of malware on your system with no way to clean it up.
119 • Anonimous (by fernbap on 2010-07-08 05:47:54 GMT from Portugal)
"Take mp3's for example. Many people have an mp3 collection for their mp3 player. I have yet to find a Linux that supports my mp3 player and I have tried many (iPod, Zune, Sansa, Zen), and most Linux OS's don't support mp3 format out of the box because of stupid license agreements. If Mint can do it, so can anything else. So with this lack of ability to manage mp3 files and players, who wants to use Linux when it's automatic in Windows?"
I rest my case.
120 • One or two words. (by jake on 2010-07-08 06:54:19 GMT from United States)
"I don't need to download Windows ever. It comes on my system that I buy with fully working drivers and programs and everything else. I don't have to reinstall every 6 months or put up with the problems that come with a rolling distro. Every Windows version is a LTS so I don't need to upgrade,"
Clearly a shill or troll, or some combination ...
Don't feed it, or you'll get to keep it. EOM
121 • Re: 118 to Anonymous of Canada (by DG on 2010-07-08 07:38:00 GMT from Netherlands)
"""Most systems these days come with Windows installed, not Linux, and every computer I have bought with Linux installed on it (5 in total), only one came working out of the box. The other 4, I had to work to get drivers working and programs and updates as well whereas when you buy a system with Windows on it, it's updated when you get it, drivers work and the programs preinstalled on it actually work."""
I'm sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges here. When you buy a pre-installed Windows system, you don't get a vanilla Windows system. What you get is a Windows system which has had all the additional drivers required for that particular set of hardware installed by the OEM/vendor.[*]
What you usually get with Linux, any Linux distro, is the vanilla installation. Usually these have enough drivers installed to recognise your hardware, but not always. The user experience will only change when there is an OEM or vendor who is prepared to provide a "customized" Linux distro that includes the additional drivers for all of the hardware in the box.
[*] I once bought an HP system from a Dutch consumer electronics shop - so what you see is what you get - which had the Dutch version of Windows XP on it. I wanted the English version and was also sold - more fool me! - a vanilla Windows(US/UK) CD. The vanilla Windows didn't have the drivers required, and HP's website refused to let me download the drivers (in English) because the hardware was recognised as being the Dutch variant. Maybe some Windows wizard could get round this, but I could not.
122 • Anonymous 118 and so on and on and on (by gnomic on 2010-07-08 07:57:37 GMT from New Zealand)
I say old chap, any chance of doing me a favour and not posting so copiously and frequently? No doubt your intentions are good, but could you consider the possibility that your opinions while no doubt fascinating for you may be less so for others? There must be an advocacy group out there where your talents would be appreciated. My preferred comments on Distrowatch are those which convey some useful information, or if argumentative, are at least mercifully brief. More signal and less noise if you please.
123 • @ 116 • RE: 106 (by Landor (by meanpt on 2010-07-08 10:59:20 GMT from Portugal)
... nice trial ... ok, I've done it all the time with tiny core by following their instructions, I also did it with FuguIta, but with this Ghost I would have first to elaborate on the internet connection problem, than on the reason why this thing refused to mount and read the contents of either the linux hardrive I offered, either its own CD. It showed an error popup screen related to some "lock" problem ... well ... it doesn't worth the time still to be inested after those are solved.
124 • And this is why.. (by davemc on 2010-07-08 14:31:25 GMT from United States)
I don't usually reply to Anonymous posts...
"@85, "Its how Linux will evolve to the next level, and always many steps ahead of all other OS's - especially proprietary model OS's" Are you kidding me!? Linux is a million years behind Windows which is a proprietary model OS. Just read back over my comments in this post and you will see abundant proof that we are light years behind Windows. The current way that Linux is operated is going to keep it many steps BEHIND all other OS's."
Really?..
"Linux is a million years behind Windows which is a proprietary model OS."
I don't think I really need to reply to that statement, which speaks more about your own ignorance of the facts than anything else.
Linux is in a very good place right now, and its future is brighter than its ever been in recent history. It has never been a goal of Linux to dominate Desktop share or destroy XYZ company. Some people have put forth their own views that that is what they wished for, but the core principles of FOSS have never changed and they do not espouse the domination or destruction of anything. Actually, the opposite is true in that it has always been a primary goal to espouse freedom of choice, freedom to use and access the source code and make changes to it that all can then benefit from, and then still others can make further improvements to the code base, and so on and so on. The "million eyes" concept ensures that the code base remains pristine, bugs get squashed quickly, and security holes get filled in record time - certainly a vastly better way of doing things than how Apple or Microsoft does them, both in theory and in real world practice.
Everything you have posted here is really nothing more than cut and pasted comments from all over the web from Microsoft and Apple shills or people who are honestly confused about Linux and are just repeating nonsense and wives tales.
125 • @120 (by fernbap on 2010-07-08 16:15:09 GMT from Portugal)
Thanks jake, you made me learn a new word - shill. Fantastic word, i might add.
I'm tired of reading the same old "arguments" everywhere, i think they are trying to set a mindset to the uninformed people.
A magazine just came out (a magazine on PCs and stuff) with an article named "Did windows 7 kill Linux?".
Obviously, a propaganda piece. Just showing how Microsoft is scared.
As Ghandi said, "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win".
Btw, did you notice that every week there is always a post on how someone installed peppermint on hardware such and such, and everything worked, and he is very happy?
126 • posts 116, 123, et al (by Juan Carlos on 2010-07-08 17:31:50 GMT from France)
I tested GhostBSD as a live CD, in VM, in a seperate partition, and on a HDD all by its little old self, and it worked just fine for me.. Maybe it is you who are doing something incorectly. Also, if you read their website, you might have noticed that GhostBSD refers to itself as
GhostBSD 1.0 Go Green.
I digress.
If you were so inclined, the would/could change the green colour theme instead of complaining.
There is version 1.5 Beta and when that is debugged and finalised, you might have better "luck." Or not.
For ferndap -- it is spelled Gandhi.
127 • @126 (by fernbap on 2010-07-08 17:55:29 GMT from Portugal)
Lol, you're right.
Btw, it's spelled fernbap ;)
128 • post 127 (by Juan Carlos on 2010-07-08 19:10:17 GMT from France)
d = b
Thank you.
129 • Mandriva (by M'enfin!?! on 2010-07-08 19:12:40 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (no announcements here, please don't turn this place into a digg.com).
130 • @104 GhostBSD colors, @118 (by Patrick on 2010-07-08 19:12:47 GMT from United States)
@104
I have to agree with you about the colors of GhostBSD. I did not install it, but looking at the screen shot, it made me feel kind of nauseated. :) That is just personal I think (the particular color of green seems to do that to me), but I think your problem of hurting eyes could be more common.
I think the problem is a general lack of contrast in the colors used. I have tried a similar theme (with a different color) on my PC before, and it had the same effect on me. It comes over as smooth and soothing, but it actually puts strain on the eyes because they have to work harder.
I'm not a big fan of green themes either, but I think Mint generally does a good job with it. Their themes tend to have much higher contrast than the GhostBSD theme.
@118
"""If indeed you are correct, and Linux has no grand scheme, then I question what the point of using it is."""
Because it works great, without any grand scheme, of course.
"""If you are correct then the community is no better than a group of chickens running around with their heads cut off just prior to death."""
Interesting comparison, but inaccurate. Chickens need a head to function. The comparison would only work if Linux needed a head to function. It doesn't.
I would compare Linux and open source to weeds. I prepared my veggie garden early this year and got all weeds out. Then I planted my veggies. The plan was to grow veggies in my garden. Fast forward a couple of months. Most of my veggies have been eaten by a rabbit and the garden is overrun by weeds. Why? Because the weeds are ultimately the plants that are best suited for the environment of my garden. They didn't require any hard work or careful planning to get there. They just got there because they are native, they are best suited to the environment, and all my planning and work couldn't change that. The same is true with open source and Linux. It WILL grow in the areas for which it is suited. It IS growing tremendously. The area that's lagging is the desktop, and that is because it is the chemically treated lawn of Windows. And it requires a lot of effort and money on Microsoft's part to keep it that way. Yes, that is unfair, but you can't blame the weeds for not growing if someone keeps treating the lawn, right?
"""it will maintain it's place at the bottom of the market share with little to no growth and remain used by only a select group of people but not the average person for a family computer."""
Since you keep stubbornly repeating this nonsense, maybe you are a troll after all.
"""If you are indeed correct then I am sorry, I truly don't belong on a site like this or any Linux site in general. If you are correct then Windows or OSX is for me because they have organization and purpose and direction."""
You may be right about that.
"""However, I do believe you are wrong, or at least I hope you're wrong."""
Look up any interview with Linus Torvalds and see how much he cares about ruling the world and destroying Microsoft. He just cares about making an OS that is the best fit for as many applications as possible. He strives for technical excellence, nothing more, nothing less. He knows that just like weeds that grow because they're well suited for their environment, Linux just needs to make itself suited for as many environments as possible and growth will happen without any grand purpose or direction.
"""As for ease of use, the people that find Linux easier are the ones that know their way around a computer. The vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue what to do with a Linux box because they are so used to their Windows OS, their Windows programs, their Windows files etc."""
Absolutely untrue. The people that have the hardest time with Linux are Windows power users. They have been thoroughly trained in Windows' way of doing things and refuse to accept anything that's different. Computer illiterates have no issue with Linux whatsoever. That includes my mom, a 50+ year old friend and my 4 year old boy.
"""In my experience, Linux is far worse than that because it's harder to clean things up like remnants left over from installs or uninstalls of programs, and you have the never ending concern of malware on your system with no way to clean it up."""
*lol* You must be running the Redmond version of Linux. I didn't know they had one. :)
Seriously, Windows is extremely susceptible to system rot, much more so than Linux. I have seen no malware on ANY Linux system in the wild, and I have seen malware on 80+% of Windows systems, even those where their owners were trying hard to keep their systems clean.
131 • @126 • posts 116, 123, et al (by Juan Carlos (by meanpt on 2010-07-08 19:26:24 GMT from Portugal)
I already solved some issues (internet connection and keyboard layout). As I can't still mount and read the damned cd in live mode, I'll cheat. Going to use a debian installation to copy the files to a virtual hard drive. But first I'll check how free bsd formats and have the partions configured in a HD. Hope Gparted or Parted Magic can do ... ehhh ... some magic with the boot installer. But first and for sure, I'll have to cope with all those compressed files in the CD - I don't believe they will not be there as compressed. You, guys, you're a pain. Ohhh! Dumb me for accepting the challenge. It's in occasions like this I acknowledge not having learned much while getting older. Ohhhh!
132 • @ 125 That`s because Peppermint is a great distro! (by sirkit77 on 2010-07-08 19:58:36 GMT from United States)
`Nuff said.
133 • Re 111 & 118 etc. Linux future (by Anonymous on 2010-07-08 20:20:00 GMT from United States)
The frustration is not with Linux it is with dealing with the M$ second hand store. Most of my problems have been with certain PC companies not staying with the chip set standard and are not updating their drivers for even M$.
I'm beginning to think Linux needs to take things to the next level. Instead of "supporting" devices we should be specifying. Like what Apple did with the Mac over 10 years ago, toss out all the 3rd party ported windows junk from companies that did not keep up their drivers or put them in the public domain for someone else to maintain.
By now we should be using Tux-blaster sound cards and Tuxmodems and Lin-videa graphics cards. That way we can get ahead of the hardware instead of always being behind or playing catch up. They way it looks now it will be 2020 until there is a wifi N card for Linux.ay.
Everyone I talk to is ready for this they are all tired of the M$ BS on many levels. They want to re-buy machines to 64 bit/ dual processor but don't want to repeat history. Also, windows XP is going to loose what support is left and pull all their (attempted to fix) other peoples drivers. They are between a rock and hard place and they don't want this to happen any more.
134 • Re. 118 and others previously (by Barnabyh on 2010-07-08 22:32:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sorry to complain, but I am really tired of reading nearly every single week now suit-speak about 'market share', 'competition' and that 'adoption by the masses' should be the overriding goal otherwise there's something wrong. Some people clearly cannot get their head around the concept of non-profit organizations, voluntary work, doing stuff just for fun, grass roots approach, or just another way of doing things. These people have been indoctrinated by the language of the currently in our societies prevalent economic model.
Ladislav should devise a filter that as soon as someone mentions above words deletes the comment. It may be construed as censorship, but it also helps keeping this zone a bit more BS free so we can actually get on with more interesting discussions, rather than responding to tired old stereotypes yet again.
Not that that's likely to happen, but it would be nice. Dream on. G'Night, shill.
135 • backup (by Ali on 2010-07-08 22:44:20 GMT from United States)
There are so many filesystems available out there. Which one is the most reliable for backups?
136 • Re. 134 and 118 (by Barnabyh on 2010-07-08 23:23:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Despite common misconception this Linux thing is not Windows, nor does it want to be. The emphasis is on different, and on learning. Try not to think like a Windows user and you will succeed. Suggested reading to start with:
Welcome Windows Users
http://www.zenwalk.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16
10+ mistakes Linux newbies make:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1507
The Debian Constitution would also be an important read even if you don't subscribe to it. It will help you understand some of the philosophy and politics involved.
137 • TRIM on SSD's (by Larry on 2010-07-09 00:06:37 GMT from United States)
Thank you so much, Jesse Smith, for the TRIM on SSD's article in DWW Issue #360. It was a real eye opener for me. I have been eying the SSD's for about a year now. Prices have come down, and support has increased. The time was right for me; I just purchase a Western Digital SiliconEdge Blue (Model #SSC-D0064SC-2100) from Newegg for $129.00. Installed Linux Mint. And it's awesome! Blazing fast boot times. No more, waiting and listening to the grinding and thrashing of my Raptor I when I install something in Synaptic. But I was wondering, is there any maintenance I should be doing to keep my SSD operating at peak efficiency? Jesse's article pretty much answered my maintenance question, and then some. I feel like I actually understand a bit about SSD's and how to maintain them. Thanks Jesse.
138 • RE 135: Backups (by Jesse on 2010-07-09 00:08:36 GMT from Canada)
>> There are so many filesystems available out there. Which one is the most reliable for backups?
It shouldn't make a whole lot of difference. Most of the main stream Linux/BSD file systems are pretty stable these days. I like ext3, because it's based on a code that's been run just about everywhere for years and has a journal. It's also used as the default FS in a a lot of distros so lots of people will be able to help you with questions.
139 • RE-118 (by Anonymous on 2010-07-09 00:16:17 GMT from United States)
I for the longest time, have been using Debian Linux-Stable version.
I have had internet access since around the Woody release (around 2002).
My PC at that time was a Cyrix 686 @ 250Mhz and a 90Mhz P1 laptop.
I was always able to play mp3's with my installs of Debian Stable.
To create mp3's however you have to go to debian-multimedia.org to get the lame library for encoding mp3's.
I use Audacity for editing my sound files. This open source program is also found on Windows and products for Windows computers.
My sansa mp3 player works just fine with my Debian Linux operating system.
As a side note I have not seen Win XP play flv files out of the box.
My system does.....
As for your last statement:
"No, reinstalls are necessary because of user error. You could have a Windows system running fine for 10 years without incident if you keep up with defragging and using programs to clean out your registry, keep up with scanning for malware etc. In my experience, Linux is far worse than that because it's harder to clean things up like remnants left over from installs or uninstalls of programs, and you have the never ending concern of malware on your system with no way to clean it up."
Well then:
I have never defragged my Linux boxes and never noticed any slowdowns.
I use the Aptitude package manager simply because it does keep track of what I install and does remove all the extra dependencies when I do delete something. There isn't anything to clean in my so called Linux registry.
And yes, simply because I am curious I do manually scan my package registry and do not find anything to clean.
As for malware, I have never seen any on my machine.
I have seen many a friends Win XP pro system acting like it was possessed by evil spirits... totally unuseable requiring major os surgery or re-install.
I am not your average user, I am a bit paranoid.
I do run Aide (a type of tripwire program), and Rkhunter a trojan search tool.
I also have the Clamav antivirus tool installed and a few others.
So far in all of these years Not one of them has found anything at all, just clean, no malware.
I also keep watch of my network traffic and so far have not see anything extra or suspicious, just what I serf or click on.
So I have not yet seen any malware on my installations of Debian Linux.
In short I do not have to spend any time cleaning and defragging Linux.
Sometimes this boring computing makes me feel just a little left out since I never had any of the exciting problems that my Windows using friends do.
But I realise that I preferr a boring non infected and responsive computer instead, so I'll stay with my Linux and enjoy the lack of distraction by malware and system housekeeping chores.
So if you still like Windows, more power to ya!
I'll stay right here with Linux.
Have Fun!
140 • @136 (by fernbap on 2010-07-09 00:26:28 GMT from Portugal)
This one is a classic, but is excellent:
Linux is not windows
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
141 • RE-118 Oh (by Anonymous on 2010-07-09 00:28:48 GMT from United States)
I forgot, I don't even have to re-install my LTS Debian Stable.
I just do the Debian Apt or Aptitude's : Dist-Upgrade command after the new stable has been out a bit.
If you jump on the upgrade super quickly, then yes you may have problems.
I wait a bit, few weeks maybe longer and Dist-Upgrade just works like magic.
Maybe this is like a rolling release distro?
No, no re-installs.
142 • Mandriva (by Sly on 2010-07-09 03:22:12 GMT from United States)
Mandriva....finally!!! Rumors of it's demise may be a little bit premature. From reading the release announcement, it appears that they've got an interesting product. I can't wait to take it for a spin.
143 • Mandriva, Hallelujah (by Anonymous on 2010-07-09 05:24:13 GMT from France)
The day has finally come. I'm happy :)
I want to hug all the the developers that have stayed and made this happen one by one. Thank you guys and girls.
144 • #84 Peppermint on yet another ThinkPad (by gnomic on 2010-07-09 08:19:54 GMT from New Zealand)
Can confirm that Peppermint OS just freshly downloaded has managed to sleep and wake a ThinkPad R51 here. Another winner!
Oops. Better not laud Peppermint too freely. Did have a spot of bother on first boot, probably the usual Intel video stuff. The machine went off into nowhere land and power cycle to restart. I still think this should never happen. What about a semi-graceful falback to a prompt? Please? However the machine did boot in compatibility mode, whatever that is.
145 • Peppermint OS (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-09 11:54:15 GMT from Israel)
I tried Peppermint, it was ok but I don't really use all the web links in the menu so I just went back to Lubuntu which I actually like better. Then I got bored with that after a while and switched to crunchbang - alpha2. Two days into it I have only found a couple of minor annoyances.
1. Keyboard defaults to GB keyboard. This is a documented bug and there is an easy fix for it noted in the forum.
2. Numlock key defaults to off. Some people like that but I prefer the default to be on. Easily remedied by installing "numlockx" with Synaptic.
The Openbox and Tint2 panel configuration options added to the menu make customization fun and easy. I added Wbar and set it to auto start by using the Openbox config menu option "autostart.sh" which is really such a convenient, time-saving option.
I know there is no such thing as the "perfect" distro but so far crunchbang is knocking on the door...
146 • @145 • Peppermint OS (by Albert Hall (by meanpt on 2010-07-09 12:21:20 GMT from Portugal)
"Keyboard defaults to GB keyboard. This is a documented bug and there is an easy fix for it noted in the forum."
Could you provide me withe the link?
Thanks.
147 • @ghost bsd and bloat (by meanpt on 2010-07-09 12:43:53 GMT from Portugal)
"Compiz is part of the system but with an X.Org configuration that won't work with Compiz. But once the installer is completed, GhostBSD should be ready to use Compiz."
When tested the live 1.0, I liked the snappy feel of a gnome desktop I only found in Paldo even with small resources. So, I don't need nor will use compiz.Hope it will not make it a heavier system like the the PCBSD cousin (... bad dog ... bad dog ...)
148 • @145 #! bug (by Andy Axnot on 2010-07-09 13:06:14 GMT from United States)
"Keyboard defaults to GB keyboard. This is a documented bug and there is an easy fix for it noted in the forum."
I'm in the U.S. and would find this very mildly annoying, perhaps, but I would hardly count it as a bug. The distro originates in the UK so it's not surprising it defaults to a GB keyboard.
I don't use #!
Andy
149 • @146 (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-09 13:12:36 GMT from Germany)
Here is the link and the directions:
http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic/8392/alpha-2-known-issues/
2010-06-29 10:33:26
Topic: Alpha 2 Known Issues
Known issues with the CrunchBang Alpha 2 builds:
1. Keyboard layout/language selection not honoured
Problem: The keyboard layout and language selections which are chosen during the installation are not being carried through to the installed system.
Fix: Run the following command, select your desired keyboard layout and restart for the selection to take:
sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
150 • @148 (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-09 13:34:15 GMT from United States)
148 - "I'm in the U.S. and would find this very mildly annoying, perhaps, but I would hardly count it as a bug. The distro originates in the UK so it's not surprising it defaults to a GB keyboard."
I get what you are saying but when you install an operating system that has the option to select a keyboard and that selection is "not being carried through to the installed system", I think that counts as a bug. And yes it is annoying. I use a US keyboard and just typing this I had to use quotes but when I tried it I got "@". These buttons are switched. I just completed the "sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" but haven't re-booted yet. I know it works though because I just did it on my other machine (if anyone is interested in that information).
151 • @145 "I tried Peppermint..." (by sirkit77 on 2010-07-09 13:57:47 GMT from United States)
But it had web apps that you don`t really use? So you changed to a distro that you had problems with? Considering that the web apps can simply be ignored or removed quite easily and everything else runs like a dream? I guess you get bored easily.
152 • #151 (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-09 14:27:10 GMT from United States)
"I guess you get bored easily". I do. Peppermint OS is ok, nothing bad there.
153 • Tint2 (by Albert Hall on 2010-07-09 16:26:06 GMT from Germany)
I know this is not a "how to" forum but if someone could point me to information on how to keep the Tint2 panel "on top" while automatically shrinking Iceweasel to the proper size under it, I would be grateful.
154 • @150 my apologies (by Andy Axnot on 2010-07-09 19:41:19 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I shouldn't have commented without knowing all the details. I thought the reported problem was that the keyboard simply defaulted to GB. I didn't realize it was more than that.
Andy
155 • RE: 130 -131 & Ladislav (by Landor on 2010-07-09 20:58:24 GMT from Canada)
#130
That's exactly what I believed it to be, lack of contrast. As I said, it was the first time I've ever felt that way too. I always liked how subtle openSUSE was with their greens, though still not to my tastes. A lot of colour variations have been exhausted in Linux (and other OS'). I'd love to see something really make some changes in aesthetics.
#131
Ahh, isn't it great being male and have that challenge come up, no matter the age..lol :)
How has the other issues with mount and such come along?
I remember reading that people were having problems mounting Linux partitions in FreeBSD. It was mainly because of inode size if I remember correctly. There was a patch for it in 7.? But I don't know if that patch ever went into the the next release(s) or not.
------
If you see this Ladislav, and I don't know if you arbitrarily make changes to a distribution's description or not, but I think kongoni needs to change theirs now.
In the description it reads as the final line: "Kongoni, which means gnu (also known as wildebeest) in Shona, includes only software that complies with Free Software Foundation's definition of software freedom."
That doesn't fit now in light of their recent release announcement and discussing the non-free flashplayer.
I'm not voicing an opinion of its inclusion either way, just pointing out the description of kongoni is now inaccurate.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
156 • RE:Kongoni (by Jesse on 2010-07-09 22:30:02 GMT from Canada)
>> just pointing out the description of kongoni is now inaccurate.
How is the description inaccurate? They don't include Flash or non-free pieces in their install media. They simply allow people to install them later, much the same way Debian or Fedora does.
157 • re 144 - Peppermint praise withdrawn || Crunchbang keyboard map (by gnomic on 2010-07-09 22:30:12 GMT from New Zealand)
Peppermint and the ThinkPad sleep - afraid the award has to be withdrawn. Loaded up the browser with maybe 10 tabs for later reading last night. Closed the lid. On opening X Window was gone. In its place was a screenful of error messages. Ungood. SQUASHFS unable to read page, unable to read data cache entry, squashfs_read_data failed to read block, etc etc. This is a FAIL I'm afraid. The system was actually still running, was able to switch to a console. Brief attempt to restart X did not succeed.
Just on the Crunchbang UK keyboard, a quick expedient is setxkbmap us. What I use to get that @ back in a live #! session. It would be a nice feature if they offered a choice of keyboard during boot. Can say I have found #! pretty solid in live CD use and find the overall look gives a pleasant user experience.
158 • RE: 156 (by Landor on 2010-07-09 22:39:43 GMT from Canada)
That is the problem. I'm sure you've read the guidelines at least once for the FSF, or I hope you have. :) They're explaining that there is now "non-free" software available for Kongoni and unless I've missed my guess, no matter that it's not in the install disc, they're providing a way to obtain it.
As I said, I'm not going against them for it at all, though I do think it's a shame, but it doesn't meet the FSF guidelines in two key points now, documentation in regard to using non-free software (the release announcement, and making non-free software available to be installed.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
159 • RE: 156 again (by Landor on 2010-07-09 22:46:23 GMT from Canada)
I also should point out that you're not totally correct about Fedora. There is documentation to install non-free software and such but Fedora (other than the kernel blobs) in no way supports or maintains repositories (that I last knew of) that contain non-free software (as stated, other than the kernel).
Debian is a different story.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
160 • Green? (by Mex J on 2010-07-12 07:43:06 GMT from United States)
A possible topic or question for future DW: What is a "green" os? One can cook breakfast with modern CPU heat no matter the OS, yes?
Number of Comments: 160
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