 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 359, 21 June 2010 |
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Welcome to this year's 25th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Besides being a popular buzzword of technology circles, the "cloud" is also a useful concept that is available to Linux users today. Today's feature article introduces a new distribution, Peppermint OS, which has elevated cloud computing to a new stratum - by combining the traditional desktop with a set of applications that are hosted on the Internet. As our reviewer finds out, the result is an interesting, albeit sometimes confusing experience. In the news section, the international Mandriva community writes an open letter to Mandriva, openSUSE continues discussion on the distro's future strategies, and Debian announces a completion of several major package transitions and a possible freeze of the "testing" repository in August. Also in this issue, more on the upcoming DistroWatch package database update, an opinion on the lack of up-to-date Slackware-based live CDs, and a collection of links to various solutions for eliminating the sound of vuvuzelas from your media player. Happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (39MB) and MP3 (56MB) formats
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
An introduction to Peppermint OS
 Earlier this year a pair of developers put out a new distribution called Peppermint OS. The new distro, which has close family ties to Ubuntu, is an experiment in combining the traditional desktop computing model with cloud-based applications. Usually this combination would be enough for me to lose interest (there are only so many cloud-centric and Ubuntu-based projects a person can look at before their eyes glaze over), but the Peppermint OS project has a few things going for it.
First off, Peppermint OS has one of the most appealing, visually, websites I've seen. Some projects focus heavily on technical features while others throw around hype and pretty graphics, while the odd few strike a useful balance. Peppermint's site is one of those balanced few, where the hype and graphics greet new users and there is still plenty of technical talk and support on the inside. The second item working in its favour is hardware support. Peppermint OS is, as you may suspect from its name, closely related to Linux Mint, to date the only distribution which has correctly detected and configured all of my hardware. Finally, Peppermint seems to have attracted a large and vocal user base, considering the project's short life thus far, and my inbox has been filling up with requests to see this operating system get the attention they feel it deserves.
Prior to firing up the project's live CD, I had a chance to talk with Peppermint's founders, Kendall Weaver and Shane Remington.
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DW: Why did Peppermint get started? What does it provide that other distributions might not?
 KW: Peppermint was actually started back in January after Shane Remington and I had a few too many at the bar and decided we needed to build a new Linux distro. We wanted clean integration with social networks and that was about it. Our initial builds were using KDE and were quite big. After taking a look at a lot of what seemed to be coming up in Ubuntu 10.04 at the time, we decided we needed to re-base and try to offer something fresher and faster. The name Peppermint came from us wanting the polish of Linux Mint, but a lot spicier.
We decided to go the route of offering clean integration between web applications and native desktop applications. I decided on Mozilla Prism for its ease of use so I threw together an ISO image based on Lubuntu, but with most of the local apps replaced with web apps and we put it into a private beta. Within a few days of starting the beta we realized we were onto something with a lot of potential so I wrote a custom front-end for Prism to directly integrate web apps with the LXDE menu and started spinning ISOs to test for a public release.
Essentially what we're offering is a light and fast system that gives you quick and easy web app integration but without sacrificing the traditional desktop model. It seems that almost every system currently available is trying to focus exclusively on either being a better desktop system or a better cloud system. We asked ourselves why it had to be one or the other, why couldn't these two approaches for an operating system fuse into one? That's where we come in.
DW: Peppermint has a long family line, going back through Mint, Ubuntu and Debian. Why did you decide to base Peppermint on Mint?
KW: Actually, Peppermint is a Lubuntu fork, coming from Lubuntu 10.04 alpha 3, to be more specific. It does use some of the Mint tools and some of the lower level configuration files, but it's not based on Mint. As you may not know, I'm also the maintainer of the LXDE and Fluxbox editions of Linux Mint. Having seen first-hand the level of quality control that goes into testing the Mint tools and the drive for user friendliness, it seemed an obvious fit to take advantage of some of the components. For example, Mint uses a custom implementation of APT that combines many of the most common and most powerful commands from apt-get, aptitude, and dpkg together into a remarkably efficient system that covers everything from basic installation to package building and maintenance. We're also making use of the Mint software and update managers, along with a simple keyboard/mouse settings tool I developed for Mint Fluxbox with the help of my friend Ikey.
DW: Peppermint seems to have a lot of focus on cloud computing. Yet there are also instructions on the site for removing all cloud-related software. Do you feel there is a lot of demand for cloud applications and storage?
 SR: Absolutely. As humans we are evolving along with technology and this trend is leading us into advanced mobility which means that tools and applications will need to be developed to transition us to that place. Having an omnipresent network or cloud is not such a new idea and has been alluded to by many science fiction authors over the years. Some see this as scary but we see it as the next logical step in how we will all interact and exchange information. It will be the norm and we expect Linux to play a major role in creating and maintaining its infrastructure.
As far as the web and cloud applications that ship with Peppermint, we were accused in the beginning of bundling web and cloud apps into the menu options and somehow passing them off as real applications. What we saw as a necessity to educate new users was to simply offer a small buffet, a sampler platter, of popular web and cloud based applications so you could test drive Prism. Remove them or keep them if you like them. They exist on Peppermint as a preview of what you can create yourself by using our custom Prism front-end. We got many many laughs over the accusations which technically, in their own words, described precisely what a cloud application is: an application that lives in the cloud/web and masquerades or, in their own words, passes itself off as software that is installed locally on your machine.
DW: The distro is lightweight out of the box - I believe your site claims Peppermint will run in 256 MB of RAM or less. Are you targeting older hardware, or just trying to stay fast and out of the way?
KW: Staying fast and out of the way is definitely the intention here, but we are happy to report about Peppermint running well on some systems with 192 MB of RAM. By keeping it fast and simple we're making it easier for people to get on and get things done. You don't need a bunch of special effects or a bunch of heavy applications to be productive, you need speed, simplicity, and mobility.
DW: Your site's stated philosophy of appealing to the non-geek crowd and keeping Linux simple sounds similar to the philosophies behind projects such as Ubuntu and Igelle. How do you feel Peppermint compares to those projects?
KW: I've always really liked Ubuntu as it's always represented what "Linux with ambition" can bring to the desktop market, but I do think that very often they reach farther than they can grasp. Even with features such as the MeMenu and Ubuntu One, they still seem to be focused on being primarily a traditional desktop system. What we're doing with Peppermint shouldn't be perceived as competition to that, rather we're simply targeting the market between cloud and desktop and offering a simple solution that is perfectly capable of handling duties on either side.
I can't really comment on Igelle as I have only very limited experience working with it.
DW: Your distribution hasn't been out very long. How have people responded so far? Can you give us some examples of things people feel you're doing right or things you should be doing differently?
KW: You're certainly correct in that we're new. In fact we're just now celebrating one month of being publicly available. We've been quite surprised at what has been an overwhelmingly positive response thus far. We have a lot of people taking web applications more seriously than they had been, and a lot of people really appreciating the speed and simplicity of what we're offering. We've had a lot of people very vocally opposed to our choice of default browser (Firefox), but we're making it very clear that defaults are in fact defaults and anyone is free to pick and choose exactly what they want for their own system.
DW: Now that the first stable release is out the door, what comes next? What do you want to see in the next release and will you be sticking close to your Ubuntu/Mint base?
SR: We're on schedule to respin the ISO at least once a month in order to incorporate updates, bug fixes, new features, etc. We'll stay as close to the Ubuntu/Mint base as is necessary, but we're likely not going to exactly follow in their footsteps regarding release schedules and new features. Personally I would like to stay on top of the LTS code base and roll with that for the next couple of years, incorporating major application updates as they become necessary.
In the near future we'll be releasing Peppermint Ice. It will feature Chromium as the default browser and will likely be even more cloud focused as we'll likely drop printer and scanner support for it and replace more of the default applications with either smaller ones or cloud-based alternatives. Once we launch Peppermint Ice we will be working towards bringing integration with Google Cloud Print as the next logical step in development for Ice and all other Peppermint versions. Essentially, we were finding a large group of people who were experimenting with the combo of Peppermint and Chromium and getting great results. We listened to these skilled users of ours on the forum, picked their brains a little, and now we can offer Peppermint Ice as a crowd sourced or "cloud sourced" product. Testing started this week and we plan on launching it very soon. All we can say is that Peppermint is fast. Peppermint Ice is stupid fast.
DW: Your project accepts donations. Are there other things satisfied users can do to help the project? Do you need translators, coders?
KW: We've been fortunate in having very quickly built a strong and enthusiastic community. Almost all of our support thus far has been done via community members. We will be needing package maintainers in the future as our repository continues to expand at a much faster rate than I initially expected. If we do opt to stay on the LTS base, this will very quickly become a priority as a lot of application updates don't seem to filter down to the LTS releases. Personally I would like to see more applications coming from vanilla source code as opposed to depending upon potentially patched versions for Ubuntu and Mint. This way we can better isolate what are bugs in the application versus what are bugs in the packaging and patching.
DW: Is there anything else you'd like to add? Thoughts on Linux in general or Peppermint in particular?
SR: We really want to encourage direct social ties with all of our users and anyone interested in Linux and its advancement. Great ideas are spawned from direct contact and we are firm believers in being open to everyone. The official Peppermint Twitter accounts are @PeppermintOS for the main account and @AskPeppermint for support questions. Kendall Weaver's Twitter account is @Kendall_Tristan, Shane Remington is the notorious @roadhacker, and Nick (our support lead) is @Asheguy. You can also find us on Facebook, and our community forums are always available as well.
DW: Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.
* * * * *
Installation and first impressions
The Peppermint OS One image file weighs in at about 470 MB, making it a fairly small download for a modern operating system. The disc boots into a live graphical desktop environment (LXDE) with a red and black theme. The screen is mostly empty with a taskbar running along the bottom, an application menu in the bottom-left corner and an icon for the installer in the upper-left.
The installer is, for all practical purposes, the Ubuntu system installer and I won't spend a lot of time covering its functionality. It does a fine job of guiding the user through the steps of selecting their locale, partitioning the hard drive and creating a user account. I'm not thrilled that the Ubuntu installer feels the need to grab the current time and various packages from the net without asking first, but otherwise it's a smooth and intuitive ride.
Peppermint OS One - running the installer
(full image size: 145kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Software and package management
With installation complete I rebooted the machine and was presented with a simple graphical login screen. One of the first things to catch my attention was a small update notification applet sitting next to the clock. Peppermint uses the mintUpdate tool which connects to Ubuntu and Mint repositories and filters updates by their perceived safety to the end-user. For adding and removing software, Peppermint comes equipped with mintInstall, a package manager which presents the user with a web-like interface where packages are broken into categories. Each package comes with ratings and some come with reviews. Software can be added or removed with the click of a button. For people who prefer more traditional methods of package management, Peppermint also comes with Synaptic, Aptitude and the apt-get command-line tools. So there's no lack of options when dealing with the 30,000 available packages.
Peppermint OS One - flavours of package management
(full image size: 112kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
The application menu is a mix of local applications and web-based programs. Among the local items are a file manager, calculator, text editor and archive manager. Firefox 3.6, a BitTorrent client, PDF viewer and CD ripper are also included. Rounding out the selection are a webcam application, media player and disc burner. There are also some great utilities for configuring the system's look and behaviour to your preference. But if you're interested in the Peppermint distribution, it's probably because of their approach to web-based solutions. Links in the application menu point the user to programs for Facebook, Twitter, Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Reader, an image viewer, media player and net radio.
Having played around with this arrangement, where the web applications are mixed in with the local programs, I find myself in agreement with the people who weren't happy with the way Peppermint bundles these choices together. I'm fine with the web-based solutions sitting in the menu next to local applications, the integration of web and local is what Peppermint is about after all. What annoyed me is that, in some cases, there's virtually no way to tell one from the other. Peppermint comes very close to getting this right with the use of tool tips. For example, if I go to the Graphics menu and move my mouse over pixlr I see a tip telling me that it's a cloud-based image and photo editor. This is good, as is the tip for Google Docs, which tells me it's an Office Suite in the cloud. But the Google Calendar item is shown as being GCal for the Desktop, which strikes me as a poor description.
Some other descriptions are a bit vague, leaving the user to experiment to discover the nature of the program in question. And I find myself wondering why the link to YouTube needs to be bundled as a web app rather than just opening a link in the local web browser. If the user has a fast connection and isn't doing anything else on the network, this mixing of programs works fairly well. But if the connection is slower or if the user is downloading updates or has torrents running, etc, then there's a noticeable lag, made all the more apparent by LXDE's responsiveness. Having the cloud-based solutions more clearly marked would have made the mixture more appealing.
Behind the scenes, Peppermint comes with Flash and codecs for playing popular video formats and MP3 files. Some common tools which I didn't find installed by default were the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), Java and vi/vim. This combination isn't really surprising when one considers Peppermint's image size.
Hardware support
I installed and ran Peppermint on two physical machines, a generic desktop (2.5 GHz CPU, 2 GB of RAM, NVIDIA graphics card) and my HP laptop (dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 3 GB of RAM, Intel video card). The medium-sized image file installs about 1.2 GB of software on the local hard drive. I found on both machines the operating system was quick to boot up and was very responsive, at least while running local applications. When running in a virtual machine, the distribution ran very well in 512 MB of RAM and continued to perform well with 256 MB. I found from 256 MB and down, the system was still functional, but would increasingly use swap space. Peppermint has its roots in Ubuntu and Mint, giving it excellent hardware support and it is the second distro I've used which has properly detected and used all of my hardware without any additionally tweaking on my part. My screens were set to their maximum resolutions, sound worked properly and my mobile modem and wireless cards were handled automatically.
Peppermint OS One - work and play with the web
(full image size: 325kB, screen resolution 1366x768 pixels)
Putting aside the recent release of Peppermint for a moment, the developers are also (at the time of writing) working on a new spin of their distribution. This work in progress is called Peppermint "Ice" and is very similar to plain Peppermint, with a few key differences. Ice uses the Chromium web browser by default, dropping Firefox. The theme has been changed to mix light blue and black. And some items, specifically print-related programs, have been removed from the application menu. The download image for Ice is a little bit smaller, saving about 20 MB. By itself, Ice isn't much different from plain Peppermint, but it shows the development team is listening to feedback from their users and willing to try different approaches.
Conclusions
I've been using Peppermint (and Ice) for several days and on one hand I find it an interesting experiment, a sort of proof of concept that web-based and local applications can live side-by-side. On the other hand, this style of ultra-light desktop with very few built-in applications isn't the sort of environment I usually use. I think Peppermint's boot-up speed and responsiveness are impressive, but I find myself constantly returning to the package manager to grab more items, such as a local office suite, the GIMP, a compiler and different multimedia programs. The configuration put together by Peppermint's team is probably better suited to a netbook used on the road than my day-to-day computing needs. While it's not my cup of tea, I think the developers have put together something interesting and they appear to be doing their best to adjust it to better serve their users.
Stepping away from Peppermint for a minute, I'd like to say a few words about cloud-based applications in general. I don't think running programs over the Internet is really a good fit for desktop Linux. I'm a big fan of running thin clients on a LAN and I've often used web-based data solutions (such as web mail or document sharing services). But I can think of very few cases where web-based applications, running on servers outside the local area network, would be useful to Linux users. The two main benefits to running cloud-based apps are having one central location for updates and having the benefit of being able to access those applications from anywhere that has an Internet connection. Linux distributions already offer these features by way of software repositories, giving the end user the ability to keep up to date or, optionally, stick with older versions of software.
Many of the big name distributions also offer tools to install their product on Flash drives, allowing users to take their operating system with them anywhere. This combination, in my mind, is superior to cloud-based applications in speed and flexibility and it removes the need for a steady, fast network connection. I don't have anything against making use of cloud computing where it is appropriate, but I think most desktop Linux users already have solutions in place which make web applications redundant. When your operating system receives daily updates and can fit in your pocket, is there really any reason to turn control of your programs over to other people? Judging by the interest surrounding Peppermint, some users think so and are excited by the fresh approach.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Open letter to Mandriva, openSUSE strategy proposal, Debian release update, anti-vuvuzela filters and plugins
 When Mandriva first published the development and release schedule for its upcoming release, version 2010.1, the date of the final delivery was fixed on 3 June 2010 (which was late by Mandriva standards - usually it is the first among the major, independent distributions to bring out a new version each release season). Now, with more than two weeks past the due date, the release date on the relevant page of Mandriva Wiki remains conspicuously empty. Obviously, the release has been delayed (possibly) pending negotiations with a potential buyer as rumoured recently. This uncertainty, reminiscent of Oracle's current treatment of the OpenSolaris community, has led to a group of concerned Mandriva community leaders to write an open letter to Mandriva (scroll down for the English translation of the original French document): "The Mandriva Linux French-speaking Users Association and MandrivaUser.de (German speaking Mandriva community) ask Mandriva board to state its position and particularly to present possible projects of continuation and to clarify an official position of Mandriva SA about the current identified projects with Wallix, Ieurope (idoo.fr), lightapp and Linagora. We ask for a clear message, especially about community support, free and public distribution of Mandriva Linux, and Cooker."
* * * * *
 No such release trouble at openSUSE which delivered the first release candidate of the distribution's forthcoming version 11.3 last week. Everything is now set to be ready on 15 July as scheduled, after one more release candidate between now and the release date. In the meantime, it's interesting to follow the ongoing discussion about the project's future strategy that is taking place within openSUSE and of which information is published on the distribution's web site in regular intervals. Here is an extract from last week's update: "The openSUSE Board and its Strategy Team have worked on three strategic proposals to define the direction of openSUSE's future, as a Project, Community and distribution. Each strategy proposal includes the same community statement. We will therefore discuss the community statement and the three strategies separately. To have a focused discussion, we like to handle the discussion as follows on both opensuse-project mailing list and the openSUSE forums. What do we want to achieve with these discussions? Refine the proposals, e.g. remove or add activities, discuss what needs to be done for each strategy proposal, figure out which strategy proposal is best, pros and cons of each ones."
* * * * *
 The Debian release team has published a new release update detailing the progress towards the upcoming stable release of Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 "Squeeze". The report discusses the recent and imminent transitions, such as the update to eglibc 2.11, Perl 5.12, Python 2.6, KDE 4.4.3 and GNOME 2.30, along with a rough estimate of the release process: "Some of the transitions that have been discussed in this release update were not planned when we published our last freeze estimate. While considerably improving the user experience by providing newer upstream releases and a faster boot process, they imply that we will need some more time to prepare Squeeze. We will declare Squeeze frozen once the switch to Python 2.6 as the default version and the other transitions mentioned above are completed, which we currently anticipate will be during late August. If we all work together then we may able to finish some transitions more quickly than our estimates. Thanks for your attention and your assistance in making Squeeze a great release!"
* * * * *
 Finally, somewhat off-topic, but sometimes it can't hurt to add an amusing twist to the serious world of free software. During the last couple of weeks the infamous vuvuzela, obnoxiously accompanying every single match at the ongoing football world cup in South Africa, has become a source of irritation to many football fans around the world. The sound of the tuneless horn is reportedly not so bad when absorbing it in a stadium, but it tends to spoil the experience for those who watch the spectacle on TV. If you are among those who can't stand the racket but enjoy watching sporting events on a computer, a number of solutions exist to help you keep sane during the matches. Fedora users can filter the unpleasant sound by following this simple guide, while Ubuntu fans could use a VLC plugin called VuvuzeLAUTLOS. There is also a devuvuzelator for Mac OS X users. But perhaps the most elegant solution has been provided by André Dieb who suggests an excellent one-liner (for GStreamer on Debian-based distributions to filter out the unpleasant sound frequencies. The code looks like this:
gst-launch-0.10 autoaudiosrc ! audioconvert ! audiochebband mode=band-reject lower-frequency=223 upper-frequency=243 type=2 ripple=50 ! audiochebband mode=band-reject lower-frequency=456 upper-frequency=476 type=2 ripple=50 ! audiochebband mode=band-reject lower-frequency=922 upper-frequency=942 type=2 ripple=50 ! audiochebband mode=band-reject lower-frequency=1854 upper-frequency=1874 type=2 ripple=50 ! audioconvert ! autoaudiosink
We haven't tried this solution so use at your own risk! Now, does anybody have a solution to filter out the poor performances of some of the star-studded teams that play at the tournament? ;-)
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Slackware-based live CDs
Checking-Slack's-pulse asks: Can you think of the reason why almost everything is released as installable live images now except Slackware-based things? It might be me, but it sucks that things are so limited and what's available is always old. More to my point, it's more inconvenient to test drive any of them because they need an installation.
DistroWatch answers: Honestly, this isn't something I'd thought about before receiving this question. So I went over to Wikipedia and the DistroWatch search page and took a look at the Slackware-based options. And there are some distributions which offer live CDs, but of those, most of the live discs lag behind the rest of the project. For instance, at the time of writing, Salix OS is a step behind on their live disc, Zenwalk's live CD is a few versions behind their Standard edition, we haven't seen a release of Slax for about nine months. VectorLinux seems to be up to date and NimbleX, well in a bit of a reversal, their latest version is a live disc out without an installer.
So it does seem that, for the most part, the live CD editions of Slackware-based distributions lag behind or plain don't exist. Why? I don't maintain a Slack-based project, so I'm not in a good position to say. However, I can think of a few reasons:
- A lack of developers. A lot of the Slackware-based projects are small operations, sometimes with just one or two developers involved. It takes a lot of time and effort to keep a distribution going. Maintaining multiple editions takes even more.
- It's also possible there isn't a lot of perceived demand for live discs in the Slackware-based community. Slackers tend to be a special breed of Linux users, some of whom aren't interested in features such as live CDs and package managers. It's entirely possible there aren't people clambering for live editions of these projects.
- As I said, I don't maintain a Slack-based distribution, but JP Guillemin from the Zenwalk project does. In his own words as to why the Zenwalk Live edition lags behind the Standard edition: "We are actually looking for a new maintainer for Zenlive." So it seems to be a lack of person hours.
None of these explanations help you though. If you're interested in trying a Slackware-based distro and don't want to install it first, what are your options? Well, if you have some spare time, you could get in touch with the distribution maintainers and offer to help them put together a live disc. This would be helpful for you and the community at large. An easier approach would be to set up a virtual machine and test-drive the distribution that way. You won't get the full benefit of testing your hardware, but you'll get to discover other aspects of the operating system. Or you could try talking the distro maintainer into creating a live disc, either directly or though programs like Google's Summer of Code. If you have the money to spend, offering a bounty for a feature has been known to work too.
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| Released Last Week |
Parted Magic 4.11
Patrick Verner has released Parted Magic 4.11, a utility live CD with various data rescue and disk management tools: "Parted Magic 4.11. This version of Parted Magic updates FSArchiver 0.6.10, gDisk 0.6.7, LFTP 4.0.7, OpenSSH 5.5p1, Chromium 6.0.424.0, Linux kernel 2.6.32.15, Parted 2.3, NTFS-3G 2010.5.22, syslinux 3.86, udev 157. Xarchiver was removed in favor of using File Roller for the archive manager. To be as useful as possible while keeping the same lightweight philosophy these programs were added: lm_sensors 3.1.1, Perl 5.10.1, Clonezilla 2.3.5-21, unrar 3.9.7, vmfs-tools 0.2.1. Some major effort went into this release and I hope you enjoy it. Next release will most likely include a newer X.Org and Linux kernel. I would also like to thank burdi01 for his efforts improving the init scripts and his future work on the keyboard selection program." The full release announcement is available on the project's home page.
NexentaStor 3.0.3
Anil Gulecha has announced the release of NexentaStor 3.0.3, an enterprise-class storage solution built upon the foundation of the OpenSolaris-based Nexenta Core Platform: "On behalf of NexentaStor team, I'm happy to announce the release of NexentaStor Community edition 3.0.3. This release is the result of the community efforts of Nexenta partners and users. Changes over 3.0.2 include: many fixes to ON/ZFS back-ported to b134; multiple bug fixes in the appliance. With the addition of many new features, NexentaStor Community is the most complete and feature-rich gratis unified storage solution today. Quick summary of feature: ZFS additions -deduplication (based on OpenSolaris b134); free for up to 12 TB of used storage; Community edition supports easy upgrades; many new features in the easy-to-use management interface; integrated search." Here is the complete release announcement.
MINIX 3.1.7
Ben Gras has announced the release of MINIX 3.1.7, a new version of the UNIX-like computer operating system based on a microkernel architecture: "MINIX 3.1.7 is released. Major features: userspace scheduling and a scheduling server; proper support for multiple Ethernet cards of the same type; bug fixes (such as workaround to run on recent KVM); debug features ('verbose' boot monitor variable, access to debug registers DR0-DR7 in kernel); boot monitor allows loading images larger than 16 MB; root partition size increased to 64 MB (and setup script can now more or less safely deal with root partitions with non-default sizes); buildsystem support for building MINIX with GCC; source tree reorganization and clean-up; new ports - Git, GCC updated to version 4.4.3; secondary FS cache layer in VM that uses all available memory, reducing I/O wait time a lot." The full release notes can be found on the project's release page.
Greenie Linux 7L
Stanislav Hoferek has announced the release of Greenie Linux 7L, a user-friendly, Ubuntu-based distribution designed primarily for Slovak and Czech speakers: "The seventh major version of Greenie Linux, an Ubuntu derivative for (primarily) Slovak and Czech users, is available for free download. What is new? New logo, new versions of software applications (like current Ubuntu, but updated with all official updates), much simpler look with all Greenie-specific features added to the Applications menu, new and useful applications (PiTiVi, Ailurus, Tucan, Bluefish). Also, many dropped applications from Ubuntu (Pidgin, GIMP, Glchess) are included in Greenie. Improved Greenie center, more Bash aliases and many other improvements. Special thanks for Dušan Halický, who helped a lot with the new concept." Here is the complete release announcement (in Slovak, scroll down for a brief English summary).
Greenie Linux 7L - an Ubuntu remix optimised for Slovak and Czech users
(full image size: 1,466kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Sabayon Linux 5.3 "SpinBase", "CoreCDX"
Two specialist editions of Sabayon Linux 5.3 were announced yesterday. "SpinBase" is a minimalist Sabayon which can be extended and re-mastered into a custom installation or CD/DVD image, while "CoreCDX" is a small graphical Sabayon with X.Org and Fluxbox: "Directly from our server department, two new Sabayon editions officially thrown to the crowd. They are called SpinBase and CoreCDX, but what are they about? SpinBase was formerly known as CoreCD; the Sabayon team decided to change its name for these reasons: SpinBase can be used as a base to make new Sabayon spins; it contains the new Anaconda text-based installer; it is very lightweight. CoreCDX is built on top of the SpinBase module and features X.Org and Fluxbox, our favourite tiny environment." For further information please read the full release notes.
SystemRescueCd 1.5.6
The latest release of SystemRescueCd, a Gentoo-based live CD designed for data rescue and disk management tasks, comes with the brand-new version of GParted (0.6.0) and updated network card drivers. From the changelog: "Updated standard kernels to 2.6.32.15 (rescuecd + rescue64) and alternative kernels to 2.6.34 (altker32 + altker64); updated GParted to 0.6.0 (support for devices with sectors greater than 512 bytes); updated xfsprogs to 3.1.2 (XFS file system userspace utilities); updated Ethernet network drivers in the standard kernels (tg3, bnx2x, e1000e); fixed problems with the tg3 Ethernet driver (mostly used by Broadcom cards); recompiled Parted so that it works on system with glibc before 2.11; improved usb_inst.sh (sysresccd USB installer script for Linux); added customization options to the sysresccd USB installer for windows; disabled isohybrid which breaks isoloop and which is not really necessary...." More details in the changelog.
Scientific Linux 5.5 "Live CD/DVD"
Urs Beyerle has released a new version of the "Live CD/DVD" edition of Scientific Linux, a distribution built from source packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux, but enhanced with extra applications for use in academic environments: "Scientific Linux Live CD/DVD 5.5 has been released for i386 and x86_64. Features: live CD can be installed to local hard disk; live CD runs from USB key; changes can be stored persistently on an external device; live CD can be mounted over NFS (diskless client). Software: Linux kernel 2.6.18, OpenAFS client 1.4.12, X.Org 7.1, ALSA sound libraries 1.0.17, GNOME 2.16.0 (standard desktop), GIMP 2.2.13, OpenOffice.org 3.1.1, Firefox 3.0.19, Thunderbird 2.0.0.24, KDE 3.5.4 (only on live DVD), Evolution 2.12.3 (only on live DVD)." Here is the complete release announcement.
Zenwalk Linux 6.4 "Core"
Jean-Philippe Guillemin has announced the release of Zenwalk Linux 6.4 "Core" edition, a minimalist, but extensible Slackware-based operating system: "Zenwalk Core 6.4 is ready. Zenwalk Core is a one-of-a-kind complete 300 MB base Zenwalk system designed to build high-performance and high-security non-GUI Linux servers, or to be used as the base of a custom light-speed desktop system. It can be installed in just 10 minutes using the auto-install setup option on a dedicated disk. Zenwalk Core 6.4 provides the 2.6.33.4 kernel with the new BFS scheduler, designed for the best interactivity on multi-core CPUs while taking the most of lower specification machines. You'll notice better responsiveness of many applications, better real-time performance (very low latency), and efficiency of 'niced' commands." Find more details in the release announcement.
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
Package database update
Last week's call for suggestions about updating the list of packages tracked by DistroWatch resulted in several suggestions. Besides Shotwell, lzip and Wordpress, some of the other packages that have received multiple votes included Google Chrome, MythTV, Privoxy and Tor. This week gives you one more chance to request packages that you think should be included in the distribution tables; please email your suggestions to distro at distrowatch.com or comment below. The package database update will be finalised next Monday (28 June).
* * * * *
New distributions added to database
- Superb Mini Server. Superb Mini Server (SMS) is a Slackware-based server distribution with web, DNS, DHCP, file, print and fax servers, iptables firewall, mail server with spam filter and anti-virus scanner, and BitTorrent station. It also includes Webmin, a web-based administration tool, but no graphical desktop. SMS, which comes with Slackware's text-mode system installer, is built using Linux-Live scripts (from Slax) and can be used as a live CD for testing purposes.
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- Emninia Linux. Emninia Linux is an easy-to-use, Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution.
- Ubuntu Tutik Remix. Ubuntu Tutik Remix is an Ubuntu-based distribution designed to be light and fast without compromising usability.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 28 June 2010.
Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Peppermint (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 09:56:22 GMT from United States)
"Usually this combination would be enough for me to lose interest (there are only so many cloud-centric and Ubuntu-based projects a person can look at before their eyes glaze over), but the Peppermint OS project has a few things going for it."
Sorry, but it's still enough for me to lose interest. Seriously, why all the coverage of Peppermint OS? Who gives a shit? In my opinion, it's a disgrace to the plant it took its name from. I have yet to see anything special about this "operating system." Then again, I don't believe in this "cloud" garbage.
I guess you can say that's why we have opinions, but seriously... WTF is so great about Peppermint OS?
2 • @ Jesse, about ... Peppermint ... (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 10:22:56 GMT from Portugal)
"When running in a virtual machine, the distribution ran very well in 512 MB of RAM and continued to perform well with 256 MB"
I remember to have opted for UNE as my installed VBOX buntu of reference, instead the last release of Peppermint. I did that cause UNE ran faster within 400-416 MB of RAM. Maybe you could tell what was your host machine cause your desktop runs twice faster than my beaten Dell Latitude 400 with a Pentium Mobile still without PAE features and running at 1.4 GHz. That may be the only explanation for the "continued to perform well with 256 MB".
3 • Peppermint One (by Sol on 2010-06-21 10:28:50 GMT from United States)
Although I'm not into "cloud" computing, I find that Peppermint is perfect for introducing Linux to those masses who only use their computer to browse the internet. These are the people who are brand new to computers, and, after the initial joy of using their brand new computer with MS on it (or the new-to-them used computer with an already cludged MS on it), find the tediousness of the daily antivirus, antimalware, etc, etc, scanning unbearable, because, after all, the only thing they want to do is be online. Peppermint also makes it easy to add programs as needed by such the person, and gives them the ability to learn computing and the programs one step at a time, instead of being overwhelmed by everything-at-once at the get-go. Peppermint also gives the multi-media abilities up-front to the user, so that they don't have to go around trying to figure out what to do to see their friends videos, hear their friends music, etc. Peppermint is perfect for the computing beginner on up, IMHO.
4 • Peppermint is fantastic (by Jim on 2010-06-21 10:35:11 GMT from Hong Kong)
I want to report that after using Peppermint for a while I am very impressed indeed. It is so light,fast and responsive on my dual-core AMD computer and plays all the different media formats without a hitch. I thought that Ubuntu was too sluggish on my machine and Peppermint is much faster. Let's face it,everyone wants the fastest possible OS these days, so I want to express my gratitude to the developers of this excellent program and encourage them to keep up the good work and they should feel very proud of their contribution to the Linux World.
5 • Emninia Linux or Eminia Linux? (by Alexandru Popa on 2010-06-21 10:46:25 GMT from Germany)
It's interesting to see new distributions each week. But today's announcement has a typo: "Emninia Linux. Eminia Linux is an easy-to-use, Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution."
As link sends me to http://www.emninia.webs.com/, suppose Emninia Linux is correct. (It's very unusual name, BTW).
6 • Slackware-based Live CD (by DarthVader on 2010-06-21 11:31:36 GMT from Bulgaria)
Try http://linvo.org, it's Slackware-based, and up to date (based on 13.1), and it has a very nice installer, too.
7 • Peppermint One RULES! (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-21 11:41:13 GMT from United States)
Having distro-hopped through Ubuntu, Mint, etc., this is the first distro that is lightning-fast, rock-solid and sexy. Yes, sexy. It does everything right and nothing wrong. Plus, the forum is friendly and supportive. What else can you want?
8 • @ 1 - ... is so great about Peppermint OS? (by forlin on 2010-06-21 11:43:09 GMT from Portugal)
I'll give you the first great reason: It's the only distro out there, as far that I know, that gives out of the box support for a 3G mobile broadband, while using the light weight LXDE (if you know some other distro that equals that, please let us know). This mean that I can go anywhere out doors, get connected to the net while using any light, stupid cheap netbook, and still getting an acceptable performance. As I couldn't do the same with my desktop, I'll not need to invest in an expensive laptop for that purpose. Regarding the cloud applications, it's still a very recent concept and more progress will come in the future. The ones who will start earlier to adopt it, the better know how will get to cope with it in the future. Peppermint still has lot's of room to develop. It's a 1 month old Distro. So far they have been doing an excellent work on their site and forums, providing great support to their users and being very cooperative by attending their needs and requests. Also, the developers have shown ambition, excellent technical skills, and desire to innovate. If nothing of this is special or not enough, you may tell us what do you think it's missing.
9 • Peppermint (by Sergio on 2010-06-21 12:12:25 GMT from Greece)
While I really consider Mint is an ubuntu with codecs, the same rule apply for peppermint, it's just Lubuntu with codecs and the unsafe,unsecure load of crap called cloud.
my personal opinion
10 • Re: 1, PeppermintOS, Cloud Computing, Social Networking etc. ... (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-21 12:35:51 GMT from Slovakia)
> Seriously, why all the coverage of Peppermint OS? Who gives a shit?
> In my opinion, it's a disgrace to the plant it took its name from.
... wonderful. I couldn't agree more. I'd go even further than that and include what passes for social networking these days. You know, the stuff the cheery, yet hapless, easily manipulated, easily dominated crowd of 20-something year old conformists gets all misty-eyed about. Facebook? Bah! LinkedIn? Puke! Twitter? Couldn't care less. But I can see that it's a useful tool for Langley sponsored and controlled riots anywhere on the planet. A push on a button and the above mentioned crowd of conformists gets all upset about some thing or other. Add a little Soros Foundation money and you have a full-blown color revolution. Innit wonderful? Walter Lippman's wet dream of total control through propaganda has finally become a reality, thanks to technology. Brave new world.
11 • RE:1,9 Why? (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-21 12:40:35 GMT from United States)
To start off with I'm not a big fan of cloud computing and not because it is rumored to be so called unsafe, unsecured and a load of garbage or crap. It's just that at this time I have no reason to use it. I hear all of these claims of how scary and unsafe it is and all the other jabs that people take at cloud computing but I really haven't seen any proof of these claims. Don't tell me that common sense would dictate that cloud computing is bad and evil. The computing world does not run on common sense. I'm not saying that cloud computing is or is not unsecure or unsafe or any of the other things that people gripe about. I'm simply saying that I don't know. So when a person makes a blanket statement about something they need to give some proof or even an example to back up their statement. Also I'm sure that everyone who gives an opinion about the performance or makeup of Peppermint LInux has downloaded it and tried it. Otherwise how would you even be able to give an opinion on this distribution? When or if I download and try out Peppermint I will have an opinion on it. As of now I am not qualified to give an opinion on this distro or on cloud computing in general. But...that will change. :)
Thanks
12 • @9 - your personal opinion (by forlin on 2010-06-21 12:41:42 GMT from Portugal)
"my personal opinion"
Opinions are nice. But they are much better if supported with some facts and evidence. If possible, accompanied with sustained better alternatives. Otherwise, they are very poor statements and it's better to keep quite.
13 • All Slackware install CD/DVDs are "live", and have been for over a decade (by jake on 2010-06-21 12:56:30 GMT from United States)
Seriously. Boot up a Slackware install disk. What do you have? A working, usable, Slackware system. Where's the problem?
14 • Slackware-based Live CD's (by dragonmouth on 2010-06-21 13:12:44 GMT from United States)
"it's more inconvenient to test drive any of them because they need an installation"
Using a LiveCD to test drive a distro is like test driving a car around the dealer's parking lot rather than taking it out on the street. You can tell how it looks but you can't tell how it really performs.
15 • Re: All Slackware install CD/DVDs are "live", and have been for over a decade (by Sitwon on 2010-06-21 13:32:48 GMT from United States)
@13: The same could be said of the Debian or Gentoo minimal install CDs. They boot to a shell environment. But these are extremely minimalistic environments with only the tools need to setup the system and install the distribution.
The install environment that you boot into lacks a X-Windows, lacks a system for persistent customization of the live environment, it's somewhat difficult to extend and update.
@Checking-Slack's-pulse: LiveCDs are generally good for two things:
1. repairing/recovering a system (which the Slackware install disks can already do), or
2. verifying driver compatibility with your hardware.
If you just want "test drive" a distribution, I would strongly recommend using virtualization instead. If you need to check driver compatibility before installing, Slackware might not be the best choice for you.
All that said... AlienBOB has mentioned on his blog that he's working on creating a Slackware LiveCD. It will hopefully be ready by the next release.
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/preparing-for-a-release-is-tedious/
16 • mint & pepper (by fernbap on 2010-06-21 13:34:09 GMT from Portugal)
I guess most of the people that felt marveled by peppermint had never seen a good LXDE distribution.
I would say 80% of peppermint success is the LXDE desktop. Something to take into account...
Besides, anyone can use prism.
Anyone who wants to try a good LXDE desktop should try Lubuntu and Mint LXDE and then compare with peppermint.
Besides, who wants the cloud?
17 • Slackware LiveCD (by Antonio on 2010-06-21 13:41:52 GMT from United States)
There is Slax-Remix by fanthom :)
It sports a 2.6.34 kernel and works very well. It can be used to test how Slackware would run. I run it at home and it works well.
18 • Wolvix? Hello? (by mjjzf on 2010-06-21 13:57:30 GMT from United States)
It is most unexpected that noone managed to shout 'Wolvix' yet; it has been mentioned here on more than a few occasions. They have had their setbacks, but they are working on a stable release... and Wolvix is generally good.
19 • Peppermint (by Tom on 2010-06-21 14:06:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Clients that would be much better off with a Slackware or something else that does not require much updating and can run effectively on lower spec machines often seem to demand Ubuntu because of it's market penetration.
Even mainstream newsagents often have offerings about Ubuntu and much more 'traditional' support structures exist for people scared of risking the scary 'unprofessional' forums. Ironically these people would trust soem stranger they bumped into 'down the pub' rather than highly skilled and competent people we typically find in 'unprofessional' forums but mistaken perception counts for a lot.
So, Peppermint might 'just' be another Ubuntu clone but it might offer some of us options especially with this exciting new cloud concept. A couple of weeks ago a lot of people were complaining about covering obscure distros such as Slackware from which most modern distros can trace their lineage. Surely we should be complaining now about another Slackware clone but really, who is forcing you to read about it? The 2nd sentence says 'links with Ubuntu' which should be a clue to stop reading if you prefer distros that are not helping many people to escape from Windows.
I am stuck in an office using a thin and quite rigorously locked-down Windows, using an old MicroSquish Office and thoroughly hating it. OpenOffice formatting is less erratic. Any distro would be less vulnerable here and would need less locking down, even perhaps DVL imo. Can we celebrate our diversity and get any distros out there more.
Regards from Tom :)
20 • @6 • Slackware-based Live CD (by DarthVader (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 14:09:36 GMT from Portugal)
I'm not sure you put it right, as they state in their FAQ:
"On which distribution is Linvo based?
The development is mostly independent, but it uses a lot of packages from Slackware and Arch Linux. The package system is compatible to Slackware."
21 • What's with the vitriol? (by captainpotato on 2010-06-21 14:10:52 GMT from Australia)
I have to say that I'm amazed at the vitriol against PeppermintOS here - like cloud computing or not, it's absolutely brilliant what they have done to produce an OS that absolutely flies on my eePC 701SDX. It cold boots within about ten seconds, shuts down in about two, hibernates even more quickly and restores swiftly. It detects all of the hardware, plays everything I've thrown at it so far and has completely changed the way I am able to use the netbook.
None of the other netbook OSes I've tried using on it have come close to what PeppermintOS does. I don't use the cloud stuff at all, and don't intend to. And they don't take away - love or hate them - from the underlying distro that makes it perfect for a slower machine.
22 • Slackware based Distros ... (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-21 14:15:05 GMT from Slovakia)
Back in March we had an interesting review/comparison of Zenwalk, Salix OS and GoblinX here on DW. Since most of these distros have now been updated to Slackware 13.1, maybe it's about time to have another look at them, this time including Vector and Wolvix? How about it, Caitlyn or Jesse?
23 • Vuvuzelas are part of the experience (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 14:16:21 GMT from Canada)
First, a confession: I am not a sports fan. Actually I don't get fanaticism at all, of any kind.
Now, I enjoy watching the games at the world cup. It is entertaining and relaxing (I don't have favourites, so I can just enjoy).
I find the vuvuzelas part of the experience of the game. It adds to the feeling that you are there sharing the excitement.
Talking about excitement. Even though I live in Canada, I tend to switch to the Spanish language channel.
The English commentators, are dry and comment as if it was baseball or American Football, just names and statistics. The English speaking commentators are monotone, always the same rhythm and volume. There are even times where they are quiet for more than 5 seconds! If they get tired of following the plays, they should get a different job. I know they can do that in some other sports as 90% of the time there is nothing happening.
The Spanish speaking commentators are more entertaining, they follow the plays, they make wisecrack comments, and they are knowledgeable so they can spice the comments with facts and fun. They are usually in a conversation about the game we are watching, not something else unrelated. They accelerate the rhythm for a fast play, and raise the voice for an exciting one. They shout "goal!" as if they are enjoying the game themselves.
So Vuvuzelas are good. Watching a game in mute, boring.
24 • Wolvix (by Sarah Tonin on 2010-06-21 14:21:22 GMT from United States)
#18
...and the latest Wolvix Cub release comes with Fluxbox and LXDE desktops. I really would like to see that final release. Not much in the forums as to when it will happen.
25 • Slackware-based live CDs (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 14:24:58 GMT from Canada)
Your points seem to be fair. I can add another one: Virtualization.
I find that testing in a virtual environment provides a better experience than booting from a Live CD.
Users completely new to Linux may want a live CD, but for them it does not make any difference if it is Slackware or otherwise. Once they want to install it, if they decide for a slackware-based system then, well, they are ready to install it so a live CD is not really that necessary.
The only advantage I see for a Live CD is HW compatibility testing. But again, a user that decides to go the slackware route is most likely knowledgeable about the Linux supported HW.
26 • Slackware LiveCD (by Antonio on 2010-06-21 14:37:28 GMT from United States)
There is Slax-Remix by fanthom :)
It sports a 2.6.34 kernel and works very well. It can be used to test how Slackware would run. I run it at home and it works well.
27 • Cloud Computing and things... (by davemc on 2010-06-21 14:55:53 GMT from United States)
I could not agree more with #1's comment above. This has been hotly debated by Linux industry big name experts (see video linked elsewhere) and even they are completely and totally against it. It flies in the face of all FSF principles and not to stop there, it is just plain STUPID to trust the integrity and security of your data to third parties. There is however quite alot of big company money (Google, IBM, Microsoft, Apple) flowing into progressing this notion that the Cloud is yours/ours/everyones bestest coolest friend. I thought all us Linux geeks were smart - I guess I was wrong on this account. My faith in humanity is somewhat restored by at least a few of you though.
Peppermint OS?.. No thanks! Just another worthless respin putting its roots to shame.
28 • Ban the vuvuzelas (by Sergio on 2010-06-21 15:03:06 GMT from Canada)
Vuvuzelas are a nuisance. Lots of people are annoyed by them (players, coaches, viewers, commentators). The most puzzling thing is that FIFA officials knew about this months before the tournament started. Yet, they
won't ban them out of respect for local customs. That's a pathetic excuse. In my country, fans beat up referees after controversial games. Should this become customary throughout the world ?
After watching a couple of games, I've decided to quit. I'd rather check the results on the internet than spend 90 minutes listening to vuvulezas players.
29 • Clouds are here and we've been using them for a long time (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 15:14:57 GMT from Canada)
Note: My argument here may validate the perception from people for and against clouds.
We already have clouds in the current world. We "have" our money on banks, pay bills, and get goods without ever touching the paper.
This is, someone is taking care of keeping it safe and simplifying the management for us. To me the financial system is just a big cloud where my money lives. Yes, I realize that now "they" know how much I make, what do I buy, could easily track my movements and if "they" wanted could freeze my accounts and I'd end up without money.
What about something more valuable. Our children. We send our kids to school where, they ensure their safety and provide a level of education and knowledge (service) I wouldn't be able to do on my own. This is, they are the experts.
I can see that people that keep their money under their mattress or in gold and homeschool their children will find the clouds even more invasive. They have a point and make good arguments.
People that trust other experts to manage their lives now, they will keep doing it and clouds will be great. They have a point and make good arguments.
The facts is that we already use clouds.
30 • Wolvix and the Cloud (by Jesse on 2010-06-21 15:19:48 GMT from Canada)
A lot of people seem to like Wolvix and I'll probably take another look at that distro when they hit a new stable release. They've been putting out betas for a while now, so hopefully they're close.
I think it's unfortunate that so many people turn their brains off when they hear "cloud". It's probably the marketing hype around the concept. But really, "the cloud" is just a way of saying storing data or running programs remotely. Most of us have been doing this for a long time now. Anyone who has ever had their e-mail stored on someone else's server, hosted a website on someone else's server, or run apps on a remote server have used a version of cloud computing. Now suddenly it's given a name (the cloud) and people are getting excited about it. For example, davemc's e-mail address claims to be on a Comcast server. That's storing data on someone else's machine.
The hype and the hate around cloud computing is mostly silly because, really, it's just business as usually for most of us under a different name.
31 • no humanity toward vuvuzelas (by leroy on 2010-06-21 15:19:59 GMT from Serbia)
#23 Vuvuzelas are not part of any experience of any game anywhere outside some SA stadiums. It's really miserable that I have to watch my team's games with sound muted. It's disgraceful what they've turned the Cup into. It's WORLD Cup for pity's sake.
About the lead article, I tested Peppermint and don't care for it because I don't care about web-based computing even if it were done super-well. I guess I'll care if I have to.
The reason I comment here are not vuvuzelas or peppermints but just to note that these two guys, oh, one or maybe both- are also responsible for Mint's LXDE and Fluxbox editions that are excellent.
And while on the subject of Fluxbox, I fail to see the point of Sabayon' releasing core CD, and core with X and Fluxbox the way they implemented it. Core would've sufficed...
32 • Vuvuzelas and who is the boss (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 15:20:06 GMT from Canada)
Soccer wouldn't be what it is without the spectators. The Raison d'être for the world cup is to make money from those spectators. Baning the spectators from enjoying themselves would be total foolishness.
Friendly ribbing. You post from Canada, Are you just a visitor? If you live here, (as a resident or citizen) then "your country" is Canada because you (or your parents) choose it. and we don't beat referees to death here.
33 • requested package: Google Chrome (by Leo on 2010-06-21 15:24:50 GMT from United States)
Chrome has become my web browser of choice, I'd love to see it listed ...
34 • Cloud relevencey diminishes over time (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 16:02:12 GMT from United States)
Aren't we still on track to double transistor power every 18 months? I think form most home users in the main computer markets the cloud isn't particularly relevant and becomes less and less relevant with every terabyte hard drive equipped quad core PC sold. Oh and then there's the number of gigabytes of ram that are standard these days. Don't get me wrong, there are many applications and specific situations where the cloud really could be very useful, and of course it's always great to see a light weight distro come out that can breathe some life into old hardware. On the whole the rewards of the cloud are relatively small, and they sure as hell don't get any better with Google's spy ware piece of garbage Chrome reporting back on what you're doing every time you click on a freaking link.
35 • Vuvuzelas (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 16:02:48 GMT from Portugal)
Leave vuvuzelas in peace ... I've seen people from everywhere making noise for their football teams with whatever they have at hand and may be carried to a stadium. Only those who don't know what FOOTBALL is, only those who think FOOTBALL is just another fox entertaining rubbish for the after dinner, are complaining. By the way, the name is FOOTBALL, meaning foot in the ball, or ball in the foot, not that sort of rugby that some try to play within armatures, most of the time with hands. Soccer is a stupid name invented by someone who couldn't play FOOTBALL. Period.
36 • SOCCER and horns (by rec9140 on 2010-06-21 16:31:19 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (way off-topic).
37 • Ubuntu 10.04 (by Rajiv Sharna(OpenSuse is Best) on 2010-06-21 16:43:48 GMT from India)
Ubuntu get high H.P.D because people come to their website for offline codec installer, that they not providing now,not everybody has linux supported internet device so offline installer is must. You can download Ubuntu 10.04 VlC(64bit) offline installer here,I have downloaded and installed Successfully on my mechine.
http://www.cellguru.co.cc/2010/06/vlc-64-bit-offline-installer-for-ubuntu.html
38 • @34 • "... light weight distro ..." :):):):):) (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 16:44:33 GMT from Portugal)
"it's always great to see a light weight distro come out that can breathe some life into old hardware".
Listen, this is a buntu with a sort of a light weight feeling (LXDE) in a powerful machine, not on older machines. Even the Ubuntu Netbook Edition runs faster and is more responsive, without being a jet liner.
The only light weight 10.04 buntu I know in this world is a sort of a Ford Model T with a chassis, a motor, a driving wheel, but no running wheels nor seats nor nothing more. You can grab it here: http://www.crealabs.it/ubuntu-mini-remix/
39 • @36 (by Leo on 2010-06-21 16:53:22 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
40 • @ 38 ... that's me (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 16:54:03 GMT from Portugal)
meanpt
41 • Soccer is the #1 sport in the world, HOT CHICKS, SLAX REMIX (by Antonio on 2010-06-21 17:02:59 GMT from United States)
@36 What is your problem?
Soccer is the number 1 sport in the world. At one point BaseBall was no. 1. Why do you say soccer is boring?
Soccer is a sport that involves thinking, passing, shooting, heading the ball, defense, offense. It is not easy, but it is not BORING. That is your own opinion. It should not go to /dev/null. If you don't like, it don't watch it. Simple.
One point well made here is the commentary of soccer in the cup. The Latin Announcers(not Univision by the way) but Televisa and Azteca deportes announce way better than the American/English commentators. The game is indeed boring the way these guys announce.
The good thing they take away, the BEAUTIFUL CHICKS, in orange attire in honor of the Dutch team sponsoring a Beer brand from somewhere. If linux distributions used some promotions like this at the WORLD CUP it would be amazing. Posing about any distribution that is liked or disliked but getting it there maybe Like UBUNTU since it is from Africa? But Red Hat/Suse/Slackware/Gentoo/Arch any of them could have those beautiful girls posing for them :) It would be a win, win situation. Also sorry for the double post. I tried refreshing the page and konqueror just reposted my message about Slax remix. It is a community project for Slax users that like the adventures of new kernels to keep up with technology. The only thing that it does not have is KDE 4.4.X, but it works well(except copy2ram, but there is a service pack). Hope you go visit slax forum and search slax-remix. You wont be disapointed. I know people were going to mention wolvix, but it is too big and remix does well and under 200 MB :)
42 • RE:27, The Main Thing Is Don't Get Excited (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-21 17:18:10 GMT from United States)
"I thought all us Linux geeks were smart - I guess I was wrong on this account."
No apologizes necessary Dave, just keep working at it.....just kidding. It's really kind of funny to see so many people getting upset big time by this when there is no reason to. As I've said before, I'm not into cloud computing but a lot of people are, and it's been around such a long time that we should be use to it. Leave them alone. Let them have their social networking, and cloud based apps. if that's what they want. If you don want it then don't deal with it. We don't have to and they shouldn't have to be picked on. Peppermint has just as much of a right to exist as Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, Ubuntu or any other distro. This re-spin is not worthless. They are worth a great deal to whom ever develops them and to whom ever likes using them. Users who have their heads in the clouds are not going to hurt anybody. How can they? Our faith in humanity is determined by how we look at humanity from OUR point of view. More often than not humanity is worth more than we think. :)
43 • @35 / 36 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 17:34:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
The word 'Soccer', I believe, comes originally from 'Association' Football (as opposed to 'Rugger', from 'Rugby' Football). Although originally slang, it would seem a sensible way to differentiate the game from one with a similar name which is more(?) popular in one or more countries. (I would not, of course, at this stage be inclined to comment on the logic nor execution of the game until more satisfactory results are forthcoming from the originating nation...).
44 • Cloud arguements (by davemc on 2010-06-21 17:55:49 GMT from United States)
I understand that Cloud Computing has been around for some time in one version or another. However, that does not make past versions of it right, and indeed the new concept of Cloud Computing en masse is nothing like what some of you describe. Online Banking is indeed an ill society is forced to endure along with email clustering - both can be used to wreak great havoc on our personal lives anytime the owners of those servers choose to, or those who use malicious means to gain access to them and there will be nothing you can do to prevent it. Indeed, are those servers being run on a Windows platform? Do you even know? One need only look at the daily news to see what can happen when personal data is compromised by these means or just the pure incompetence of those "others" responsible for handling the data you give them willingly or not.
Cloud Computing only serves the interests of large Corporations and Governments. The benefits for users like you and I are indeed small in comparison and are used as a carrot to hook you. It runs counter to FSF principles because you give up your freedom when you entrust it (your data) to someone else to safegaurd because you cant handle doing so yourself, or your too lazy to do so, or you become lulled into a false sense of security. Sure, we must all live with a little bit of it to get by, but why should we throw the baby out with the bathwater and give up what freedoms we do still have left?
That aside, storage media is these days ridiculously cheap. Getting yourself a 1TB drive (or a few 1TB drives) is now incredibly easy to do, and in Linux is a plug n play affair, along with setting up your own storage and email server that can be accessed via the Internet, so why pay someone else for storage or serving email?
45 • #22 SalixOS review (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-06-21 18:07:20 GMT from United States)
I already have a partially written SalixOS review. Ladislav will have right of first refusal, meaning if he wants it then it can be published on DistroWatch. If not then it will end up elsewhere, probably O'Reilly Broadcast.
46 • #41's last paragraph (by sly on 2010-06-21 18:08:01 GMT from United States)
Your last paragraph is about as far fetched and silly as one can get.....well maybe not.....but soccer girls and distributions....give me a break. #1. Ubantu is not an African distribution, it's was developed and continues to be produced in Eurpoean. #2. The name is African. #3. There are beautiful girls from all countries of the world, and lastly, soccer is kind of BORING until someone scores a GOOOOAAAALLLL....GOOOOAAAALLLL.
47 • Peppermint 1 (by Ron Gibbs on 2010-06-21 18:19:31 GMT from United States)
I have been using this distro for a while now, and it is everything the developers say it is, and MORE. Very fast, very easy on resources use. I like the mint package manager, and unlike the author above, I don't need every application there is available on the server to enjoy my computing experience.
I think what the objective of every Linux distribution should be, is to bring Windows users over to Linux with a distribution that isn't going to drive them away, but rather make them realize there are other ways to use a computer, other than keeping Mr. Gates well healed.
I think I represent a larger part of pc users than most reviewers, and for my use, Peppermint is perfect. Most OS's bring much more junk you probably will never use, or even be able to figure out how to use for the average user.
Peppermint gives you the system, up and working out of the box, and you can make it what ever you want it to be (or not) with a few mouse clicks.
Simplicity. Perfect for me.
48 • The Cloud (by Jesse on 2010-06-21 18:24:30 GMT from Canada)
"Cloud Computing only serves the interests of large Corporations and Governments. The benefits for users like you and I are indeed small in comparison and are used as a carrot to hook you. It runs counter to FSF principles because you give up your freedom when you entrust it (your data) to someone else to safegaurd because you cant handle doing so yourself, or your too lazy to do so, or you become lulled into a false sense of security."
The idea that cloud computing only serves corporations and governments is false and speaks more of prejudice than of any rational thought about what cloud computing is. Where do you think most of the open source projects in the world are hosted? Places like Source Forge and Google Code. Where do you think anti-government blogs are posted? Most of them are on someone else's servers. Often free of charge.
Many people do not have the time, energy, money or training to disconnect and run completely outside the cloud and, even the ones who do rarely want to because of the hassle/benefit ratio doesn't work in their favour.
49 • @44 - Freedom is a trade off (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 18:36:49 GMT from Canada)
Without defending or attacking clouds:
Freedom is always a trade off.
Having fully redundant systems that will ensure your personal data is safe is expensive. People are willing to let go some of the freedom to gain some of that reliance.
The main issue is that people need to understand that trade-off. Just doing it because everyone else is doing it, is not enough.
I for one am currently searching for an off-site backup service for my personal data that is cost effective. Yes, I have an external HDD with my backup. Thing is, I do not have two houses. If my one house burns down, my carefully taken backup will burn along with the main computer.
50 • enjoy (by Leroy on 2010-06-21 18:42:34 GMT from Serbia)
http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/distrowatch.com/
Here vuvuzela lovers, enjoy your favorite website with your favorite... instrument?
Btw, DistroWatch, is the extremely offensive #36 what your comments are about? I'm sure we can all manage some extreme insults and caps lock. Should we?
Pick up your game.
51 • 45 • #22 SalixOS review (by Caitlyn Martin (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 18:50:12 GMT from Portugal)
Just downloaded and working with Salix LXDE edtion 13.1 beta1. A 64 bit release isn't planned (... I know, the 64 bit salixers are jealously green ... but that's what life is about too :) ). This one is an installation text menu driven and shows slightly snappier than the XFCE edition on the same 416 MB of RAM. I don't know how does it fare in new hardware though. Not being the faster among the slack derivatives brotherhood, nor even the most RAM squeezable (ZenWalk wins the prize for surfing the net through firefox within 128 MB of RAM without freezing) the running speed is maintained and a hight level and reliability is still, for me, the main strength of this distro, as everything I need works just fine without a glitch. And this is a beta.
52 • On the "cloud" thing (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 19:06:52 GMT from Portugal)
I found using the google docs directly on the browser more productive than with the prism applications. So, off with the later. But won the respect for the google cloud thing when decided to place and share some ongoing working documents on google docs before the damned HP Tx something AMD dual core boiling machine broke for the 6th time within 2 and a half years. Until getting back the loaned old Dell, I had nothing to even plug the external HD with my beautiful linux virtual machines. Some hours on a internet caffe nearby did the trick.
53 • @50 (by viva la vuvuzuela on 2010-06-21 19:17:07 GMT from United States)
Thank you for the distrowatch with vuvuzuela.
Viva la vivuzuela and the jabulani :)
Great victory vs Alemania!
Hard to believe but Serbia beat Germany 1 - 0.
Imagine if we had a mock World Cup with Distributions?
Ubuntu 3 - 4 Fedora
Slackware 5 - 0 Arch
54 • @50 (by rarsa on 2010-06-21 19:21:12 GMT from Canada)
And I thought Distrowatch could not get more exiting!!
I agree. Red card to #36!
55 • Re: 45, SalixOS review (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-21 19:26:24 GMT from Slovakia)
> I already have a partially written SalixOS review.
Thanks Caitlyn, I'm looking forward to it.
> Ladislav will have right of first refusal ...
... he won't dare. :-)
56 • What a variety of subjects :) (by Patrick on 2010-06-21 19:28:37 GMT from United States)
I am still on the fence when it comes to clouds. I think for some applications they are awesome because your data is not tied to a specific machine and you can access it from any computer or device, anywhere. That makes it great as a backup system, for things that don't require privacy (honestly, I couldn't care less about someone seeing most of my data). I wouldn't use it as the only place to store my stuff though, mostly because if some disaster strikes, I might not be able to reach my data. There are an awful lot of links between you and your data that could possibly break. It think the cloud is one of the safest places you could store data so it won't get lost... but you might not be able to reach it when you need it. ;)
Vuvuzela. I mostly find it unnecessary noise and will turn off the sound when watching a game. Really, on TV it sounds as if a gigantic swarm of flies has invaded the stadium. :)
Football. The name of a game where you use your foot to kick a ball. Pretty obvious which game this refers to. For the other game that is erroneously given this name, I'd suggest calling it "throw-ball", "hug-ball", "armpit-ball", "gorilla-ball", "collision-ball", "anthill-ball", "stand-still-most-of-the-time-ball", "scramble-ball", "stop-motion-ball" or many other things that would describe it so much better than calling it football. ;)
57 • No... orange is my prefered color for cards. (by rec9140 on 2010-06-21 19:41:18 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
58 • Soccer (by M1k on 2010-06-21 19:49:18 GMT from Italy)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
59 • Yes it is light @38/40 (by #34 on 2010-06-21 19:50:15 GMT from United States)
If you must correct someone meanpt, don't tell them that in 2010 an OS that runs on 192-256 Mb of ram isn't light weight. I for one liked what I saw of many different Mint tools while I was using Mint, so that fact that a fairly light distro decided to package them into their system is good news for me. I've been trying to decide what to put on a couple of old machines of mine and peppermint may just move toward the top of the list of things to try, even if I find the cloud is relatively useless on my main machine.
60 • Clouds (by davemc on 2010-06-21 19:58:50 GMT from United States)
#49 -"The main issue is that people need to understand that trade-off. Just doing it because everyone else is doing it, is not enough."
Exactly right.
61 • Packages Tracked by DistroWatch ... (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-21 19:59:48 GMT from Slovakia)
Some suggestions ...
eMail clients:
We have Evolution, Seamonkey, SquirrelMail, Sylpheed, Thunderbird and the two console apps Alpine and Mutt. Missing from the DW packages list are Balsa and Claws Mail, two excellent eMail clients.
Web browsers:
We have Dillo, Epiphany, Firefox, Opera, Seamonkey, and the two console apps Links and Lynx. Missing from the DW packages list are Arora, Kazehakase and Midori. Especially Midory seems to be an "up-and coming" light-weight web browser that's already been adopted as default browser by a number of distributions.
Development IDEs:
We have Eclipse, Kdevelop, Mono and Netbeans. Missing from the DW packages list are Anjuta, Codeblocks and Geany, all excellent IDEs.
Html/Css Editors:
We have Bluefish and SeaMonkey. Missing from the DW packages list are Amaya, Arachnophilia, CssED, KompoZer and Screem.
... etc. etc. I could come up with much more but I'm getting a bit tired now.
62 • Vuvuzealots (by Thom on 2010-06-21 20:25:01 GMT from Denmark)
Here a survey found that 60% complained about the vuvuzelas, while 80% complained of people complaining about vuvuzelas!
At the Mexico WC in '86, players, coaches and the TV-viewing public got their undies in a sling over the habit of latino football fans to bring whistles to the games. Same thing, really.
That the vuvuzelas give rise to so much bile is perhaps a consequence of games lacking in spirit...
63 • 59 • Yes it is light @38/40 (b (by meanpt on 2010-06-21 20:38:44 GMT from Portugal)
:) ... go ahead and install it in those meager RAM old machines. For sure Salix and Zenwalk can also cope with that hardware and if you feel like having the mood, test their installation too in the same that hardware and report the results... see, there is nothing like testing. I would dare to recommend Paldo but their package management is only CL driven and the application's choice is a bit narrow. Nonetheless you may not find a faster installation distro. In short, I've tested many things to be able to say your gorgeous distro is heavy, but I'm not trying to tell you to not install it. Go ahead and do it, as I did.
64 • Peppermint One introduced me to Pandora. (by Paul on 2010-06-21 20:40:09 GMT from United States)
I downloaded Peppermint OS the other day and loaded it onto a spare hard drive. It was quick and had lots of web based applications for use. It offers easy access to most of the major social networks, at least those I am aware of. I don't use Google Docs or other cloud based office applications. By the time I installed Open Office and other computer based applications I was back to Lucid Ubuntu. I wiped the hard drive but will keep an eye on Peppermint in the coming months. I may shift to cloud by the time 1.5 or 2.0 comes out.
I did find one nice feature of Peppermint OS. Pandora. It had a direct link to the Pandora music web site. I have used Live365 in the past. I feel that Pandora has an edge over Live365 in that it has a brief history of each piece of music you you hear. I suppose that I can bookmark Pandora but I would not have looked for it if Peppermint had not had the link in the audio section of the menu. Thanks, Peppermint for the heads up.
Paul
Not affiliated with Pandora or Peppermint. Just like finding the music I like.
65 • re:beer @36 (by Reuben on 2010-06-21 20:44:22 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (way off-topic).
66 • Portugal 7 - 0 North Korea, Beautiful women all around the world (by SoccerFan on 2010-06-21 22:09:27 GMT from United States)
Boring?
Did you see the game between Portugal and North Korea?
It was not boring 7 goals were scored! Yes, that is right, seven GOOOOOOALS!
BTW,
the guy who hates soccer(36) I do agree with you about the Bavaria chicks. They are very nice!!! There are beautiful women all around the world. But like a linux distribution, to get the right one, is a challenge. What do you guys think?
I like Slackware Linux. Despite what Caitlyn says, I like it and use it. I don't care for package management tools and other frills. I build packages for it using slackbuilds.org. I don't need anything else. I don't need no fancy gui's to do things. Yes I know that I can have it easier, but I like it the hard way :) Just like real and true love, it is not easy and the road to heaven is not easy either :) I'll take the road that is less traveled and I will play my chances.
Wolvix, who cares
Salix, who cares
Vector, who cares
New Coke
Nothing like the "Original", Same applies with Slackware.
Also, other Slackware LiveCDs, there is a cd by Flux and Quax that no one has mentioned. Search for it.
67 • Slackware Live - the AegisX version (by gnomic on 2010-06-21 22:26:42 GMT from New Zealand)
For those who wish to boldly go, there is the work of the indefatigable AegisX. He has made a live CD of Slack 13.1. It's a solo effort so it may be unwise to risk your life's work while running it, but it has run a live session on a machine of mine for a month.
http://multidistro.com/downloads/downloads.html
http://linux.softpedia.com/developer/AegisX-31789.html
For a real rarity see the version of Absolute Linux as live CD.
68 • Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Ubuntu- ad nauseum (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 22:46:17 GMT from United States)
Between all the attention the *buntus get in reviews and in the comments, I say enough is enough. Who says bringing in more helpless wintards is a good thing? Take a stroll over to the brown forum for yourself for spoon-feeding at it's finest. How will any of these "leet" users ever contribute anything useful to the landscape. I view 90% of them as a waste of oxygen. Don't even get me started on Mint.
Oh yeah, lubuntu... puh-lease.
At least most have the sense to stay in the kiddie pool where they belong, ie dual-boot.
69 • ...Soccer (by Andrew on 2010-06-21 23:12:34 GMT from Australia)
Ok - Australian perspective (I'll speak on behalf of them for two seconds) - we are a bit sports mad. We have 4 codes of 'football': Rugby League (aka NRL), Rugby Union (aka Union), Australian Football League (aka AFL, looks like Gaelic Football without the Soccer crossbar, used to be called VFL decades ago), Soccer (aka Football - but with three other 'Football' codes, it's usually just called Soccer). Around this time of year people start calling Soccer 'Football' and it generally gets confusing. No one would say 'oh my son is playing Football this Saturday' as people would assume that's League (NRL style) though for some reason people as 'are you getting up at 4am to watch the football' when they clearly mean soccer. Soccer is also the 4th (and least) most popular 'football' code in Australia.
In countries where Soccer is the number one sport, it's understandable why they call it Football as it wouldn't be confusing to anyone else, especially if there's not three other codes of Football to get confused with.
We don't play American Gridiron as helmets and body armor are for sissies.
A quick distro comment so this isn't deleted for being off-topic: Looking forward to Ubuntu 10.10 Alpha 2, still won't be stable for day-to-day but I'm really looking forward to Trim support and something a bit more cutting-edge than 10.04.
70 • =) @ 69 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-21 23:21:41 GMT from United States)
"We don't play American Gridiron as helmets and body armor are for sissies"
Many of us view automatic codec-handling and restricted-driver management as sissy tools, as well.
(Not presuming to speak for anyone but myself.)
71 • My vote for Chromium (by Robert Thompson on 2010-06-21 23:41:56 GMT from United States)
Please add Google Chromium (not Chrome) to the list of packages you track.
72 • Peppermint, try it and you`ll love it. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-22 00:30:55 GMT from United States)
Having come back and read the latest comments, I have noticed several disturbing things. The Linux snobs have reared their ugly heads. I`m a recent ex-Windows user. I installed Peppermint a week before Vista bricked. I kept right on truckin` with Pmint, does that make me a waste of oxygen? Attitudes like that will insure that Linux stays an elitist playtoy. Peppermint "just works", isn`t that the goal of every OS? Should I have to be Supergeek just to enjoy my laptop? Peppermint says no. I`m learning commandline little by little with the help of the best Linux forum I have come across. Cloud apps, who cares? At the end of the day, if a cloud app gets what I want done, I don`t care what it`s called. Besides, with Peppermint you have the choice to use or remove them. Just try it, people. You`ll see why so many of us are excited.
73 • Peppermint and stuff (by davemc on 2010-06-22 00:45:58 GMT from United States)
#72 - Your talking apples and oranges. Nobody is saying that running a user friendly distro is a bad thing, or that Peppermint is bad because it is. What they are saying is that they are sick of seeing everyone copy off real Distro's because they cant handle, or lack the ability to roll their own and be original. Peppermint is based off Lubuntu with a smattering of Mint tools thrown in, ie. all they have done is use existing tools from an existing OS and add in a couple bits of their own and a new wallpaper and then call it a Distro. Even in the interview the only thing that appears to be "new" is Prism?.. And what is that?
Personally, I could care less because all these types of Distro's are is a spot on the wall that will soon fade from memory (99% of them). I get a little snicker (in a good way, not a negative way) when I see them and continue reading DW for the real news about the real Distro's. Not a big thing and they (the maintainers) have every right to do these things and should be commended for at least ~trying~ to make something great. Who knows. Maybe one day a few of these spin off Distro makers will get together and really put something truly fantastic and earth shattering together that will become the new #1 and set the new standards for Linux Desktop greatness.
74 • "Great" distros?@ davemc (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-22 01:15:35 GMT from United States)
Is there something wrong with taking the best parts of two good, not great distros, adding Prism, (btw, how about studying up on something before commenting), and making it the fastest, most stable distro on the planet? Did I miss something? Snicker all you like, in one year`s time, if not sooner, a lot of us will be laughing at you when Peppermint and Peppermint Ice are regarded among the top distros here on DWW.
75 • Fastest and most stable (by Anonymous on 2010-06-22 01:38:45 GMT from United States)
I'd bet may Debian, Slackware and Arch users would disagree on #74's claims. Cut your teeth on Peppermint, or Butterscotch or whatever. If you're willing to learn, you will soon move upstream.
76 • I agree with @71. (by Toby on 2010-06-22 02:00:10 GMT from New Zealand)
Please add Google Chromium to the packages list, and not Google Chrome.
77 • Prism (by Anonymous on 2010-06-22 02:25:27 GMT from United States)
From Wikipedia:
Mozilla Prism (previously known as WebRunner) is a product in development which integrates web applications with the desktop, allowing web applications to be launched from the desktop and configured independently of the default web browser.
Funny Win9x was supposed to have web and desktop interactivity integration.
See how well that went.....
Although after so many years....
Someone should be a bit smarter because of it and have safer applications as well.
Isn't the moto: build on the shoulders of giants?
Have fun....
78 • RE: Peppermint (by Landor on 2010-06-22 03:32:06 GMT from Canada)
I read one of the early comments was this "I want to report that after using Peppermint for a while I am very impressed indeed."
Well, I want to report that after never having used Peppermint and deciding to never give it a try, I'm very impressed indeed. Kudos to Peppermint!
Jesse, you spoke of how "popular" it's become, or its garnered so much interest. I can give you the very specific reason at to why. Kiddie Distro Fanbois. The "Minty" Fanbois are no different than those of Puppy or PCLOL. Just like the Puppy Fanbois, they'll "shag" anything that moves that comes from their community and bark incessantly about it.
Mint with spice...lmao! My God, that's like hearing "The Ripper Gang".
I'm disappointed in this week's Distrowatch. Things have really looked up recently and you're giving this half-baked distro that's nothing other than a pumped up juice-box the front page. There's so many other distributions that are far more impressive. How about a full-on Slack 13.1 review. Interview Ladislav..lol Something other than this kiddie crap.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
79 • Fedora 13 (by cripto on 2010-06-22 04:30:41 GMT from Portugal)
Great distro Fedora 13.
Im very happy with the support for TMN, VODAFONE and Optimus wireless modem devices.
BIG BIG THANK YOU to all the Fedora, NetworkManager and Red Hat who made it possible.
I prayed a lot for that improvement.
Fedora keep like that. All my friends use it now thanks to this wireless hardware and communications support
80 • Slackware "live" & misc. sports observations ... (by jake on 2010-06-22 05:31:17 GMT from United States)
The Slackware install CD/DVD is, really, a "live" version of Slackware. Any given user's inability to use that system as a "live" Linux distro says more about the ability of the user than the capabilities inherent in Slack's CLI.
And no, contrary to Microsoft's opinion, your favorite GUI is NOT a part of the core OS. This is true even with Apple's OSX.
"helmets and body armor are for sissies"
Au Contraire. They are weapons, when used correctly. I played all of the above sports (and more) at the college/university level. American Football is, by far, the hardest on the body, followed by lacrosse and waterpolo, and then rugby/aussie-rules football. Cricket & baseball come next, then tennis, with soccer & basketball trailing ...
81 • still more live Slackware but not yet (by gnomic on 2010-06-22 07:16:56 GMT from New Zealand)
Some may recall GoblinX, a Slackware-based live CD from Brazil. This has now become Imagineos, though no media are yet available for download.
See http://www.imagineos.com.br/ -- though there isn't a lot to see as yet.
82 • hardware (by Tom on 2010-06-22 08:08:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you are looking for a machine that doesn't have a certain OS pre-installed then this link might be good?
http://nakedcomputers.org/
Regards from Tom :)
83 • Slackware (by Pera on 2010-06-22 08:12:25 GMT from Serbia)
I never tried out Slack,and I will never do it,because of lack of gnome official support.
84 • DWW (by win2linconvert on 2010-06-22 09:32:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks for another interesting and informative edition of DWW. Appreciate the time and effort that you guys put into each edition. Even when I'm not particularly interested in or don't understand the topics, I still enjoy reading the articles. Thanks Again.
win2linconvert
85 • Re. 83 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-22 10:09:02 GMT from United States)
"I never tried out Slack,and I will never do it,because of lack of gnome official support."
I seriously doubt the Slackware team or any Slackware users really care. :)
86 • @78 • RE: Peppermint (by forlin on 2010-06-22 12:17:56 GMT from Portugal)
"Well, I want to report that after never having used Peppermint and deciding to never give it a try, I'm very impressed indeed. Kudos to Peppermint!"
Well done DWW team.
This is really the reason why I used to like ALL the reviews that are presented here. They help me to decide if I will try, or will never try the reviewed distros.
I think that is the true reason why people read reviews. To find out if the distros feet their needs and likes, or not.
To omit reviewing some distros because a, b, or c, may not like them, could make a few happy, but not the majority of the DW readers.
87 • 86 • @78 • RE: Peppermint (by forlin (by meanpt on 2010-06-22 12:51:17 GMT from Portugal)
You're right, all distros should be reviewed, mainly those considered second tier. Presently I'm "old hardware" testing nFflux ubuntu 10.04 through the links pointed by "67 • Slackware Live - the AegisX version (by gnomic" and, despite some problems (it doesn't install the default user and password), I'm liking the idea of this fast stripped buntu which boots diretcly to the desktop, in my virtual machine with 435 MB RAM, in 1 minute and 25 seconds. Not bad at all.
Links are, as by @67 gnomic,
http://multidistro.com/downloads/downloads.html
http://linux.softpedia.com/developer/AegisX-31789.html
88 • Virtualbox testing and reviews (by Jesse on 2010-06-22 13:11:52 GMT from Canada)
@2:
Sorry, I missed this question before. Generally when I run VirtualBox I do it on my test machines. So the hardware under the VM is the same physical hardware I mention elsewhere. In the case of Peppermint, I ran the virtual machine on the HP laptop mentioned in the review. By default VirtualBox limits the gust OS to one CPU. And, sometimes, I'll throttle back the VM process to see how the guest would run with fewer resources.
@78:
"There's so many other distributions that are far more impressive. How about a full-on Slack 13.1 review. Interview Ladislav..lol Something other than this kiddie crap."
We had a review of Slackware not so long ago. I think Ms Martin did a fine job on the review. Not much has happened to Slack between then and now.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to avoid reviewing a distro just because a few people aren't interested in it. If I did that no distro would get reviewed. Everyone has their favourites and the ones they're unimpressed with.
89 • @ 88 Thanks for the review (by MasterCrash on 2010-06-22 13:25:13 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the Peppermint OS review. I have only heard scattered comments about it. About the only thing half-baked around here is someones brain and their childish attitude.
90 • Mandriva finally gets investor funding to stay in business (by MandrEvil on 2010-06-22 13:46:31 GMT from United States)
After weeks of rumors of takeover that put pressure on users and employees of the group, Mandriva should finally receive the support of investors who help finance its future.
http://www.lemagit.fr/article/linux-mandriva-opensource-investisseurs/6613/1/exclusif-mandriva-sauve-par-des-investisseurs/
91 • 88 • Virtualbox testing and reviews (by Jesse (by meanpt on 2010-06-22 13:55:48 GMT from Portugal)
Thanks Jesse. Seems to me that on real meager hardware the result will be somewhere between your experience and myne .. :) ... for sure what is fast in mine will also be faster in anything else :) ... I just wanted VBox could directly use the native hardware specs to have more precise results :)
92 • Slackware Live Cd's (by Barnabyh on 2010-06-22 14:02:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
I like reading the Slackware newsgroup (as in usenet, for those who don't know what that is any more), there is always plenty to learn, particularly for somebody who is not working or trained in a technical field but is an interested hobbyist.
People there don't have any use for manufactured live cd's, they create their own based on their ideal installation. Read and you'll learn how to do it.
Apart from that, Slax is not that far behind the times with a 2.6.27 kernel, and as somebody mentioned there are now unofficial community remixes. Search the Slax forum.
93 • #90 and Mandriva (by Drucker on 2010-06-22 14:04:26 GMT from Germany)
My French is not the best, but that article doesn't say who the so called investors are nor anything about Mandriva's future.
94 • RE:To All Grumpy Old Men (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-22 14:24:11 GMT from United States)
Reading the comment sections on DW is like listening to Grumpy Old Men.
Back in the good old days we didn't have to put up with all this
GUI junk. We didn't use sissy stuff like flash drives, we didn't have or need a mouse. We just needed a keyboard and a mono monitor. We only had 2 colors. We typed commands in and loaded data with punch cards and we liked it. No sissy forums or spoon feeding for us. We walked 5 miles in the snow carrying our 8088 super computers to a users group to get information and then we walked 10 miles back and we liked it. No fancy sissy art for us. If we wanted a picture we used a camera or better yet, a dot matrix printer using ASCII. We typed out fingers to the bone until they bled writing our own programs. No sissy so called package managers for us. We worked long and hard hours and we liked it. We kept things to ourself so people would not steal our skills, as simple as they were, because we didn't want new people. We puffed our chest out so much it looked like we had breast, AND WE LIKED IT.
Sounds like a few of the post doesn't it. :)
95 • @ 94, Couldn`t have said it better! (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-22 14:33:26 GMT from United States)
Btw, Peppermint "just works" stupid-fast.
96 • @94 • RE:To All Grumpy Old Men (by Eddie Wilson (by meanpt on 2010-06-22 14:55:08 GMT from Portugal)
"Sounds like a few of the post doesn't it. :)"
... :):):):) ... are you crazy? Do you want to kill us with laughings? :):))):):)
97 • 94 Eddie (by jeffcustom on 2010-06-22 15:55:46 GMT from United States)
Thanks, Eddie.
Just to add, I have a groundbreaking suggestion.....
If you go to DWW on Monday and the article isn't your cup of tea, just leave and go and do something else. Go compile a program, rake the leaves, fix the car or whatever. Why in the world do people feel they have to constantly belittle projects here? You may think it makes you look superior but I think I can speak for many of us that you look like a pompous idiot.
I am not directing this at a single person. There are plenty of these people to go around here. Now, if there is a real problem with a project that you think needs to have attention brought to it, that is great. But, if you just don't like a project because it's easy to use, the wallpaper is brown or whatever the reason, I respectfully say to just not post anything.
It's unfortunate that we have people here who have given great insight into specific topics only to suddenly post rants for ridiculous reasons just because they think a project is not worthy of Linux geek status? If you don't like the content of reviews, shut your mouth and start typing your own!!
I personally am very thankful to Ladislav and the rest of the team here at DW for their time and their efforts. I love coming here to see what's going on. I will look again but I am pretty sure the homepage doesn't contain the header, "By Entering This Site You Agree to Conform With All Opinions Of the Staff."
Please, PLEASE let's change the tone at DWW people. I am desperately trying to introduce new users to open source and welcome all the different approaches people are using to attract these people. Maybe some people here should start Elite Distro Weekly? There you could bash all those silly users at DWW but at least things would be more enjoyable here.
98 • oldies :) (by meanpt on 2010-06-22 15:56:17 GMT from Portugal)
Hum ... hum ... the most advanced stuff I put my hands during college was a terminal of a DEC VAX ... :) ... it was brand new at the time ... and the one of the two available around, either in this city either in the country ... beforehand had to use card punching to introduce data on a time sharing unisys or whatsoever ... had to wait for next day's printout, review errors and punching the corrections again ... and, in the next day, the same again ... and yet, I remember to be happy and younger :):):) ... nowadays I prefer boat fishing to that ::)
99 • @90 Mandriva strikes back ! (by glyj on 2010-06-22 16:31:53 GMT from France)
This is a very good news
For non disclosure agreement, we do not learn much in the article but the essential is that the company and the brand will be saved.
I will not have to switch to another distro....yet.
regards,
glyj
100 • Peppermint OS (by fox on 2010-06-22 16:34:54 GMT from Canada)
I am also grateful for the Peppermint OS review, Jesse; not only for the details but also for just doing a review that will expose this distro to potentially interested users. Kendal Weaver and his small group of North Carolina colleagues deserve a lot of credit for creating Peppermint and making it available. He didn't have to do this as he is already maintaining two community editions of Mint. They saw a need and built something to fulfill it. I tried it myself despite not having an interest in cloud applications. It is small and fast, and works well on netbooks. For some reason, it doesn't boot up as fast as Ubuntu 10.04 on my MSI Wind, but that may change as the distro develops.
101 • Chromium, not Chrome (by Onion87 on 2010-06-22 16:39:05 GMT from United States)
I vote to add the Chromium browser to the list of packages tracked by DistroWatch. Chrome should *not* be added as it is full of binary packages that are unstable and full of security holes, otherwise known as Adobe proprietary software!
102 • Naysayers and such (by davemc on 2010-06-22 16:47:41 GMT from United States)
So let me get this strait... If someone approves of a side project, then they are super awesome cool with a cherry on top, but if someone - anyone - disapproves then "these people" are, to quote a few lines above, "idiots, old men, ignorant, rediculous, and ranting". Sound about right? So, who is really being ignorant here? Some folks will NOT like your distro - just how it is. Get over it. My comment #73 above was actually a commendation for the Peppermint Devs at the work they are trying to undertake, but I see now that it might have been misplaced. I do think Landor's comment above probably was a bit closer to the mark, as he usually is. Apparently, this is a distro for the kiddie crowd, and it seems to have attracted that ilk quite well.
103 • 102 (by jeffcustom on 2010-06-22 17:23:55 GMT from United States)
Davemc, I think constructive criticism is not only great but essential. But when you start saying things like "kiddie distro" then that is unnecessary and not needed.
Some people just need to turn their computer on and start going. Many of these just need a good web browser to get to FB, their bank, etc.. and maybe openoffice to do simple document management. Are there people "kiddies"? I mean, come on, everyone is at different computing levels. If something like Peppermint or whatever distro gives that new user a sense that Linux isn't completely over their head then bravo!! If it's all they need, they'll be happy Linux users. If they learn more and get adventurous, they may move to Slackware, Arch or whatever. Isn't this a good thing? Shouldn't this be celebrated? Everyone needs a starting point.
"Now, if there is a real problem with a project that you think needs to have attention brought to it, that is great"
That is the quote from my post. Calling something a "kiddie distro" because it's a perceived remaster or too simple does not fall under my definition of a "real problem" but maybe it does by other's definitions.
104 • Slackware LiveCD (by JWJones on 2010-06-22 17:32:08 GMT from United States)
Although not current with Slackware 13.1, Austrumi is a very nice Slackware-based live CD, using FVWM:
http://cyti.latgola.lv/ruuni/
105 • RE:All Us Old Men (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-22 17:33:38 GMT from United States)
#97 Thanks
#98 The boat fishing sounds good.
#102 Hey Dave, I'm no kiddie and no you are not correct. If a person disapproves of a project there is nothing wrong with that, If he doesn't like it that just fine but just give reasons and stop there. Remember that there is nothing wrong with a person if they like the project.You really don't have a reason to insult people or their projects. You have used most of your post to try to convince people how wrong and foolish this project is and also how the people who use this distro are just the kiddie crowd and not to be taken serious. Their distro and also them selves have been called crap. That is in no way shape or form proper to do. I know that when you are new in Linux it's very easy to become overzealous. That can make you take distro or project discussions very serious and personal. Serious? Yes. Personal? No. As an example I could say that people who use Slackware are crazy for going through so much but that wouldn't be true. The same could be said for someone who doesn't see the faults in their favorite Ubuntu favor and we know that wouldn't be true. All distros have faults.
One thing we all have in common is we all like computers and we all want the freedom to use our computers the way we want. In house fighting does nothing but tear down the house. All it takes to keep the community strong is respect for one another and showing tolerance toward one another. And that does include their projects. Let's chill out and have a good time.
106 • RE: Kiddie Distros (by davemc on 2010-06-22 18:03:04 GMT from United States)
I was quoting that from someone else above, but given the tone of some of the comments above, it kind of fits the bill. For whatever reason this discussion turned hostile, and that is not helpful and is in fact, immature.
I agree with Jeff and Eddie, and my personal view of Peppermint is neutral as I obviously have nothing against niche distro's and I feel that those who choose to develop them should be commended for their efforts, as long as those efforts are being put into the overall advancement and betterment of Linux rather than just to slap something together and say, "Look at me! Look at what I did!!". I believe Peppermint is a project targeting an alarming niche - Cloud Computing - the proposed expansion of which I do object to if its going to impede our computing and data safeguarding freedoms as per the FSF doctrine. Its something that bears consideration as this whole Cloud Computing thing continues to evolve and expand.
107 • @100 (by fernbap on 2010-06-22 18:04:11 GMT from Portugal)
"Kendal Weaver and his small group of North Carolina colleagues deserve a lot of credit for creating Peppermint and making it available. He didn't have to do this as he is already maintaining two community editions of Mint."
Which makes me wonder:
Technically, the right path would be to first release Mint 9 Lxde and then release its respin. Yet, he preferred to follow a different path.
I can see no other reason besides marketing.
Meanwhile, he kept Mint users waiting for Mint 9 Lxde. I have 2 computers running Mint 8 Lxde and waiting for 9...
108 • #90: Mandriva article in English (by Caitlyn Martin on 2010-06-22 19:07:43 GMT from United States)
I've published what is basically an English translation of the Mandriva article on the O'Reilly Broadcast and O'Reilly Community website. It should also appear on O'Reilly Linux shortly. See: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/06/mandriva-saved-by-new-investor.html
109 • RE:I Do Understand (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-22 19:12:01 GMT from United States)
@davemc: Yes Dave I do understand that there could be dangers with cloud computing and to be honest I really don't know where all of this will be heading. It is hard for me to imagine how far this could go. It could just peter out but I don't really believe so. The FSF has a problem with cloud because of using non-free programs and I understand their concerns. However something else will have to be done, or lets just say that it will have to be put forth in another way, to convey the dangers of cloud computing. We should never discourage people who want to use a Linux distro and at the same time we should realize that new users, or most of them, do not understand the principles of the FSF and it is something they have to learn and accept if they are so inclined. It can take time. You never know....this may be a way where software freedom can shine. There is always an opportunity to teach, develop, and evolve, and we should take advantage of it. And then go fishing.
110 • Eddie and Dave (by jeffcustom on 2010-06-22 19:48:05 GMT from United States)
Lets all go fishing. That is the best advice I've seen given on this board this week!
111 • #107 Peppermint as a respin (by fox on 2010-06-22 20:27:47 GMT from Canada)
According to its website, Peppermint isn't a respin of Mint 9 Lxde; it's built on Lubuntu 10.04.
112 • Links on Cloud Computing and the FSF's stance (by davemc on 2010-06-22 23:45:24 GMT from United States)
http://www.fsf.org/news/libreplanet2009-speakers
http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Richard-Stallman-Cloud-Computing-a-Trap
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
http://fosswire.com/post/fsf/
113 • RE: Cloud Computing (by davemc on 2010-06-22 23:55:46 GMT from United States)
As the articles linked above show, Stallman is deadset and totally against this type of stuff. Like, hair and beard wildly flipping about while hopping on one foot kinda upset over it. Why? Is he just being the RMS we all know and love or does he have a real and valid reason for this view?...
Think about it. If it were not for this man where would we all be now? Likely, smashing our umpteenth Windows box against the wall with the phone stuck to our ears waiting for that Indian guy to help us out on that Microsoft Support hotline. Thats where. The guy may seem crazy and his views are often laughed at but, the guy is always right in the end.
114 • The evil cloud? (by Jesse on 2010-06-23 00:50:43 GMT from Canada)
"Think about it. If it were not for this man where would we all be now? Likely, smashing our umpteenth Windows box against the wall with the phone stuck to our ears waiting for that Indian guy to help us out on that Microsoft Support hotline. Thats where. The guy may seem crazy and his views are often laughed at but, the guy is always right in the end."
RMS does have a habit of shooting straight to the point, bless him, and he has a lot of good insight about software. As much as he's done for free software, I think it's important to keep in mind he tends to be idealistic. I'm not saying it's a bad thing (it's often good) but he tends to sit on one side of things. Many of us (I'd argue most of us) sit somewhere in the middle, philosophically speaking. The cloud has its drawbacks (most technology does) and it has benefits. People need to weigh those for themselves and decide how much control they want to hand over.
As for where we'd all be without RMS and the Foundation....I'd guess many of us would probably be using BSD. I love my GNU/Linux distros, but the world is bigger than just MS and GNU.
115 • "Cloud" is a marketing term. (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 00:59:33 GMT from United States)
It means centralized computing. In other words, everything is under the control of a single entity. Quite frankly, I find google's accumulation of raw data data somewhat unnerving. No individual person[1] should have the capability to datamine to the level that they are already capable. If you use google, they have the capability to tie your search habits, google docs, and gmail etc. together by simply filtering on your IP address. Same for microsoft, yahoo et ali.
THAT said, my personal network can be thought of as a "cloud". But I call it a geographically diverse, hardware diverse, OS diverse and application diverse research platform ... Overkill for the average home user, but it's mostly tax deductible.
On the other hand, those of you worried about not having the capability of off-site backups, have you considered talking to a trusted family member out of your immediate area about swapping space for off-site backups? Or even hanging a spare box off a port on their DSL modem (and you returning the favo(u)r, of course)? It's fairly easy ... and under YOUR control. Think about it.
[1] According to US law, a corporation is an individual.
116 • Re: 112 & 113 Dark Clouds ... (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-23 00:59:35 GMT from Slovakia)
Thanks for the links, DaveMc. Very interesting reading! I fully agree with RMS on this (and on practically everything else). I think that once in a while people should be reminded of the fact that most of the FOSS stuff they're enjoying today simply wouldn't be there if it wasn't for RMS' and the FSF's relentless advocacy. I also think that once in a while people should reminded that not everyone "in the business" has good intentions towards FOSS.
117 • 115 is me. (by jake on 2010-06-23 01:06:20 GMT from United States)
Sorry. I never post anon. on purpose.
118 • Best lite LXDE distro (by RollMeAway on 2010-06-23 02:52:16 GMT from United States)
I will remind the regulars, and perhaps introduce new reader, to Slitaz.
Do a search on Distrowatch for previous reviews and comments.
I've seen no other distro that compares to its speed and simplicity.
It has many options and should please anyone with minimal requirements.
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slitaz
If you swap firefox for midori browser it will run in a system well under 256mb ram.
It starts up and shuts down in 12 seconds on an older system HD install.
119 • @113 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 03:09:29 GMT from United States)
The guy may seem crazy and his views are often laughed at but, the guy is always right in the end.
So you believe that every user should have root access?
http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/su-invocation.html
120 • @ 102 • Naysayers and such (by Kaptain Krunch on 2010-06-23 03:11:14 GMT from United States)
It is ok if someone doesn't like a distribution but to call it crap, half-baked and a kiddie distribution without even trying it? That is just psycho talk!
121 • RE:119 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 03:19:36 GMT from United States)
Wow!
I first read that paragraph when I was using Slackware which was installed by floppies on a 386SX!
I actually haven't seen it since, untill today when I checked your provided link.
Retro!
122 • Re: 119 (by jake on 2010-06-23 04:25:21 GMT from United States)
Re-read it in its original context.
Most of us didn't have superuser access to "large systems" in the late 1970s ... rms believed (and believes) that anyone with access to the hardware/local network should also have low-level access to the underlying operating system and associated source code. I tend to agree with him.
In today's world, where I probably have more computer power in my personal machine-room than existed world-wide when that was written, I don't allow TheGreatUnwashed[tm] to access my hardware. These days, you have your own hardware to use, you don't need mine. See Jerry Pournelle's Byte article "One User, One CPU" ...
On the other hand, every user with access to my systems CAN get root if they need it. It just makes sense. As usual, over the long haul, rms was right.
123 • @ 119 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 04:28:51 GMT from United States)
Anyone who touches your keyboard unsupervised has root access.
124 • Re: 123 (by jake on 2010-06-23 04:54:32 GMT from United States)
"Anyone who touches your keyboard unsupervised has root access."
Not necessarily ... In the last 20+ years, I have not had a single one of my Kiosk systems cracked by my security admin class. They try, sometimes obnoxiously slowing things down to a crawl (with my encouragement, I hasten to add), but to date it's my security 100%, students 0% ... They HAVE found a few chinks in the armor, which is why I encourage it (can't patch holes without knowing they exist), but to date they have never actually managed to get root.
Now that I've commented, the current summer-school group will no doubt find a hole. The network gods are funny that way ;-)
125 • 124 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 04:59:47 GMT from United States)
Where are your kiosks?
;-)
...amateurs.
126 • Peppermint, try it and you`ll love it. (by s on 2010-06-23 05:20:19 GMT from United States)
So the altruistic, "everyone-is-a-brother-here", lofty-minded Linux community has elitist snobs. Who knew? Yeah, this is real welcoming to ex-Windows users, which is the exact crowd you should be targeting if you ever want Linux to be anything more than a geek`s hobby. Peppermint is my first Linux distro that "just works", at least for now. Am I excited about it? Yes. Am I a "kiddie"? No, I`m 53. Everyone is a newbie at some time in their lives, including everyone reading DWW and posting here. When did that become a crime? A month ago I didn`t know what a commandline, torrenting or LAMP meant, now I`m using all three, thanks to Peppermint`s easy to figure out system, plus the patience of Kendall and the great guys at the Peppermint forum. Yes, someday I will move upstream as I grow more proficient with Linux, but right now can I just enjoy a distro on my laptop that isn`t Windows?
127 • Peppermint, try it and you`ll love it. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 05:21:27 GMT from United States)
126 was me, sorry.
128 • Can`t we all just get along? lol. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 06:15:02 GMT from United States)
Having reread my comment at 126, I realize it sounded a little harsh, so please let me elaborate. I was never a fan of Windows, it was a tool to be used, a very imperfect tool. I AM a fan of Linux however. The philosophy, all the way down to the distros. I enjoy reading about anything Linux. Instead of this "my distro is better than your distro" attitude, we should think more about replacing MS as the world`s leading OS. Improbable? Perhaps. Impossible? Certainly not, given time. When I recommend Peppermint to my Windows-using friends I`m also recommending Linux. Many have switched, simply because of all the advantages Peppermint, (and Linux) have over "the other OS". I have tried Ubuntu 10.04, Mint 9, Sabayon, Zorin, SimplyMepis, ScientificLinux, Puppy, Jolicloud, ChromeOSFlow, (by Hexxeh), Slackware, Mandriva, and I`m getting ready to try PC-BSD on the advice of Jesse, who recently interviewed me for a newcomer`s experience with Linux. There was nothing wrong with any of those distros. But, FOR ME Peppermint is the one suited to my needs and wants at the present time. That`s all, sorry for the Wall `O Comments, lol.
129 • sorry for 126 (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 08:04:36 GMT from United States)
What is with all the kiss the MS-refugees' asses non-sense? Sorry for not rolling out the welcome wagon. Damn, you have found something better. Learn and evolve and stop expecting those of us who figured it out sooner to spoon-feed you what we learned on our own. Peppermint, Mint and Ubuntu are all fine for noobs. Crunchbang is a good fit for the middle. Use what you like and try to share as you learn, but don't expect us to wipe your bottoms when you make poo poo! No one here owes you anything, especially when you behave like you are entitled to the knowledge we have earned through trial and error on our own. Win 7 may be a better distro for some of you.
130 • "Win7 may be a better distro for some of you." (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 08:19:13 GMT from United States)
Exactly the attitude that will keep Microsoft number one. Coming from a Linux user? I guess you want Linux to be an elitist`s playtoy. Well, too bad, so sad. Disgruntled ex-Windows users are coming, like it or not. I think it`s feeding time at the nursing home, Gramps.
131 • Re.: 126-128 (by Prodromos on 2010-06-23 08:55:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Agree 100%. Would add two observations in general: (1) when communicating in writing only we miss being able to see the poster's body language (e.g. is s/he angry or grinning when they write it?). (2) It often seems that it is not necessarily *what* someone says, but the *way* they say it that can cause problems (after all everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there are some very bright people here, it seems). Diplomacy is an art.
But still agree 100% (although have not tried Peppermint...)
132 • Re.: 129 (by Prodromos on 2010-06-23 08:57:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Of course, some people just want to do the on-line equivalent of going into a bar and knocking someone's beer over... :-)
133 • Distros (by eamonnb on 2010-06-23 09:47:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
Of course posters need to be able to criticise new distro releases. The technical rationale behind those critiques can be illuminating and rewarding. However sneering at the users of a particular distro as being easily impressed, underdeveloped or just incurious is always going to generate more heat than light.
134 • @126 @127 • Peppermint, try it and you`ll love it. (by sirkit77 (by meanpt on 2010-06-23 09:55:38 GMT from Portugal)
I did try it and didn't love it. And yet, if I was using a faster and powerful laptop, I'm sure I would test it against whatever would be installed. It was mentioned by a "country fellow" (we never know what surprises Tor and the like brings us), that the use of 3G mobile data modem was promptly recognized which is important for those who use it and have not yet solved it with the installed distro (s). For instance, my Vista was never happy to have the vodafone's modem pen working as an attached DVD drive. I'm sure other distro adopters may feel the same and may change to or give it a try. Of course, a problem solved doesn't make us feel in love with anything. Whatever you may think, Peppermint is basically an LXDE Ubuntu gorgeously colored with the all good and bad Ubuntu 10.04 has. To my experience 10.04 got heavier and this has been true with all the re-spins I've tested. The same conclusion applies to Peppermint, whatever the "fast" statements anyone use to label it, and this is the direction I'm avoiding and not loving.
135 • Re: 126 Peppermint ... (by MacBaren Navy Flake on 2010-06-23 11:25:18 GMT from Slovakia)
> So the altruistic, "everyone-is-a-brother-here", lofty-minded
> Linux community has elitist snobs. Who knew?
... keep your cynicism to yourself. You don't seem to like the idea of a genuine community that grew out of a shared interest in FOSS. That's fine. I think you should buy yourself a Mac and join one of the "communities" that are a creation of Apples marketing department. You know, the cheery bunch who have lost all their critical faculties, who have been driven out of their tiny minds by propaganda and who occasionally worship Steve Jobs like a messiah (I wrote about them in #10). It seems to me you'd feel much more at home in this kind of "community".
> Yeah, this is real welcoming to ex-Windows users, which is the
> exact crowd you should be targeting if you ever want Linux
> to be anything more than a geek`s hobby.
... like so many you have uncritically internalized the capitalist mantra otherwise you wouldn't keep repeating its marketing gobbledygook (markets, goals, targets ...) ad nauseam. But you haven't understood the first thing about FOSS. The FOSS community doesn't have to "target" anyone or anything. They do what they do because they like doing it. Most of those who are not directly involved in FOSS projects but mere FOSS users seem to agree with them on this otherwise they would use commercial software products.
> Peppermint is my first Linux distro that "just works"
> Am I excited about it? Yes.
... phrases you seem to have lifted directly (and probably unconsciously) from some TV commercials. I think, I owe you an apology. You're completely clueless and therefore incapable of cynicism, sarcasm or anything of this kind. You're a victim of a devious and cunning manipulation industry. I feel sorry for you.
136 • @135, et al. I like using Peppermint, this week`s featured distro. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 12:11:12 GMT from United States)
That`s why I bothered to come on here and write about it. After seeing the reception that I have gotten for merely stating in my opinion that this was a great distro, I will think twice before doing so again. Congratulations, trolls. Carry on with your self-loathing, self-defeating behavior, while Microsoft laughs at you. Think I`ll go watch Hulu, you know, the app that came with Peppermint out of the box.
137 • eh... (by Leroy on 2010-06-23 12:35:24 GMT from Serbia)
# 135 - using the phrase "geek's hobby" is a dead giveaway of MS flamethrower squads. But that doesn't mean we should catch fire. Just my two eurocents :)
138 • @136 "while Microsoft laughs at you." (by sirkit77 (by meanpt on 2010-06-23 12:41:42 GMT from Portugal)
"Carry on with your self-loathing, self-defeating behavior, while Microsoft laughs at you."
Well, I don't remember belonging to a world revolutionary movement who elected microsoft as its worst enemy. As far as I'm concerned, I belong to those who silently and subversively want touse and do things in a different way, maybe not always better, than that of Microsoft's.
139 • Linux supporters? (by Antony on 2010-06-23 12:50:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Come on, sort yourselves out people. I am a long-time Linux user and it makes me embarrassed to read some of the comments/responses by certain Linux users. These kind of over the top comments, when responding to sirkit77, for example, are pretty immature really and completely unwarranted as far as I am concerned.
sirkit was making a valid observation. Where was the abuse or disrespect, which warranted the couple of silly responses huh?
People point out sane and intelligent reasons for using Linux. Well, don't do Linux a disservice with unintelligent/immature/insecure comments.
Crikey, at least try and save it for someone that 'deserves' it.
Glad you have found something that works for you sirkit.
Antony.
140 • @139 Since the distro was featured, I merely thought I would comment on it. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 12:56:38 GMT from United States)
I apologize for letting my emotions get the best of me. Thank you, Antony. I didn`t mean I was going to stop with this distro, it just made it easy to open the door to the rest that this great community has to offer.
141 • @135: Market share (by Jesse on 2010-06-23 14:01:28 GMT from Canada)
"But you haven't understood the first thing about FOSS. The FOSS community doesn't have to "target" anyone or anything. They do what they do because they like doing it. Most of those who are not directly involved in FOSS projects but mere FOSS users seem to agree with them on this otherwise they would use commercial software products."
I strongly disagree with this idea. Sure a lot of FOSS developers do what they do because they like it, but many elements of the community ARE targeting a market and DO care about things like adoption and market share. You seem to have forgotten that a lot of Linux distros, development and funding come from commercial entities. Red Hat, IBM, Novell, Sun, etc all have a large interest in prompting and growing the Linux community.
And it's not just big tech companies that benefit from increasing FOSS market share. Tech websites (like Linux Mag and DistroWatch) get more visitors (and more advertising) from an increased market share. People like myself and Jake (who work on Linux servers) stand to gain more business with an increased market share. For people sitting at home, more market penetration means more hardware companies will support your OS of choice with drivers and specs. More market share means more developers too, who will write the programs FOSS users enjoy.
The open source community doesn't exist in a commercial-free bubble, a lot of the benefits we all get as Linux/BSD users come from growth in the FOSS community.
142 • RE: Criticism and such (by davemc on 2010-06-23 14:04:57 GMT from United States)
Sirkit77 - Your a new Linux convert. We all understand where your coming from. All of us were once in your shoes at some point and shared/still share the same flame of zealotry in some form or another about our beloved Linux. Where issues crop up is when multiple people who all share the same flame disagree about something that deviates from the color of flame they ascribe to, in this case, a Linux variant - Peppermint/Ubuntu. Contributing to this particular thread is the fact that Ubuntu is often overhyped as if it were the end-all-be-all-god-send for the Linux world when in point of fact, Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian and also, Linux=Linux of whatever stripe. Peppermint is a derivative of Ubuntu/Lubuntu so by default it got caught in the crossfire this week, imo. This is my observation from just observing what I see from week to week on DWW and could be a tad wrong but I think it hits the mark pretty close. In short, take the comments you read here with a grain of salt bearing in mind that some of those grains contain some real gems of value.
@Cloud Computing stuff - My comments about this subject are in no way related to Peppermint or any other Cloud centric Distro. Rather, I would really like to see more discussion on this topic here on DWW. Why? Because "its coming" to us all in a much more "in your face" kinda way than any of us are used to if all the reports I am seeing are correct. The FSF and indeed all of us are going to have to come to grips with this phenomenon sooner or later, and how we choose to deal with it is going to have to "make sense" for FOSS and FOSS users without sacrificing our ideals and values as a community.
143 • @139 (by Patrick on 2010-06-23 14:24:44 GMT from United States)
Agree 100% with Antony. Very friendly bunch here this week... not. :(
Linux is about being able to use whatever you like. Since when do we attack people and insult them for using... uhm... Linux?
As I've said before, I often think the Linux user community is Linux's worst enemy. There is unfortunately a large group that has an immature "get off our playground" attitude. Remember though, that when new users come in, this playground only gets bigger. So please, leave your insecurities behind and keep playing with the toys you like, nobody is going to take them from you. And let others play with the toys they like, and I'll just play with the toys I like, and we'll all be happy.
144 • @ everyone. It`s okay, folks, I tend to piss people off easily, lol. (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 15:16:22 GMT from United States)
Yeah, I`m excited, but I`m excited about LINUX! This is like Christmas every day, who knew? I check in with DWW every hour or so to check the new distros, lol. You know, not to start anything again, (please God, no), I tried Ubuntu Lucid Lynx and it seemed a little like Windows to me, does that make sense? Kinda heavy, a little slower than I expected. I guess that explains it`s popularity with the new Linux users, I just felt like it held my hand and led me along, which I had already had enough of. Is that the big gripe against it, or is it something else that I`m missing? Because I`ve noticed this "Not another Ubuntu clone" from reviews I`ve read.
145 • @ 143 (by Henning Melgaard on 2010-06-23 15:26:01 GMT from Denmark)
Amen to that Patrick :-).
And may there be room for everyone in Linux-world.
146 • @141 • by Jesse and @143 by Patrick (by meanpt on 2010-06-23 15:31:56 GMT from Portugal)
Well said, men, well said. Maybe we should try have distro comments starting strucutred as a poll for: 1. If you tryed tthis distro, can you tell us in what real or virtual hardware did install and run it? 2. Do you intend to adopt it as your or one of your main or second distro? 3. Why or why not?
And that's it.
147 • ... and while we're talking of the "devil" ... the devil strikes again ... :) (by meanpt on 2010-06-23 16:38:40 GMT from Portugal)
... seems the folks at Peppermint released an openbox version ... let's see if we can feel running improvements ... :):):):)
148 • Peppermint (by fernbap on 2010-06-23 18:16:45 GMT from Portugal)
There are two completely different issues here:
1. A "work out of the box" ubuntu 10.04 based Lxde desktop distribution.
2. A distro focused on cloud services.
Most people like peppermint because of 1., which makes me think what we could have a great Mint 9 Lxde distro had his developers cared to release it instead of focusing in a "concurrent" distro.
As to 2., i don't like the cloud and that applies not only to peppermint but also to any web-centered linux distribution.
Yes, i would love a peppermint without that cloud nonsense. And that would be Mint 9 Lxde.
149 • sirkit comment in #144 (by Barnabyh on 2010-06-23 18:41:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
"I tried Ubuntu Lucid Lynx and it seemed a little like Windows to me".
This is probably the worst thing you could have said ;). We know now you're new but it confirms what a lot of long time users here think and feel and that's exactly why it ISN'T popular with a segment of people, me included.
However, at the end of the day I use what I use and don't care what the next person does, even if they're running Windows if that's fine for them. I even have a W2K again in a VM to use training CD's with mock exams that need it. It's not a religion. We can't expect people who don't know the difference between logout and shutdown to come and use Linux or BSD, nor do we want to, nor do we care. You got to have a head on your shoulders and a willingness to learn, like in all walks of life, but not everybody wants to be able to do more than just "browse the web", or, if more adventurous, use an IM.
I suppose there will always be room for at least one "simpler" OS, although I don't find Windows that simple to use either with all its issues. Perhaps one day this will be something like buntu or Peppermint, more likely though any hot "new" distro is just the latest fad of the month.
And if buntu got even heavier than it was 5 years ago, last time I used it, then good night. Anyway, I suggest to read up on Debian and buntu and its heritage, and maybe one day you'll find that Debian actually does a better job, doing almost the same but leaner and more efficient.
Always a good idea to lurk for a while and read up on stuff first, sniff the air so to speak. Not saying you're not entitled to an opinion, but people will react better to it if you appear more knowledgeable. Happy journey.
150 • @149 That`s true. I think I will go do that now... (by s on 2010-06-23 19:10:37 GMT from United States)
While I`m still behind, lol. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.
151 • RE:148, No Escape (by Eddie Wilson on 2010-06-23 19:17:47 GMT from United States)
I'm afraid we're not going to be able to avoid the cloud completely. Not as long as computer repair and service is a business.
152 • "Noob" and "kiddie" distros (by Bruce on 2010-06-23 19:49:08 GMT from United States)
There seems to be an assumption that users of so called "kiddie" distros are coming from another OS. What about users whose first OS may be GNU/Linux? My 5 and 11 year old kids are growing up using linux (Trisquel derived from Ubuntu derived from Debian) and chances are they'll continue to use what they learn on. I doubt a 5 year old can use the CLI (11 year old maybe), but with simplified versions of the OS, they can learn basics and later on more complicated things. If they show an interest in what's "under the hood" linux is a great OS for that. There's definitely a place for these distros, and as said before, it you don't like it don't use it.
153 • @149 Nope, no Debian for me, sorry! (by sirkit77 on 2010-06-23 19:58:59 GMT from United States)
"I understand the philosophy behind having only "free as in speech" software on Debian proper. However I am not a philosopher; I'm a pragmatist. When a single-CD distribution like Ubuntu includes wireless firmware for my laptop and a 5-DVD distribution does not, there's something wrong." A direct quote from a reviewer. I`ve read many reviews of Debian, both just now and in the weeks before. So let me see if I have this right. Debian is the granddaddy of them all, it is rock-stable at the cost of being outdated before it`s even released, it doesn`t naively support "non-free" software, it`s the National Treasure Of Linux. Okay, I guess the Model T was thought of the same way. Sorry, people. I want a distro that is rock-stable, cutting-edge, blinding-fast and does everything I want from the get-go. Well, call me crazy. Seems like a bad case of old-school versus new-school. I had been told that by another Linux user and I see it`s true. Let the hatemail begin, I`m through with this circle-jerk.
154 • @153 "Nope, no Debian for me, sorry!" (by Bruce on 2010-06-23 20:11:09 GMT from United States)
Before you jump all over Debian, realize that many of the distros, such as Ubuntu, were derived from Debian, and without the work done by the Debian team, who knows what state Ubuntu or many of the other distros would be in. Think of it as buying a stock car, then taking it home and upgrading the sound system, interior and adding a GPS. In terms of driver comfort it might put the stock model to shame, but without that stock model to start with, all that's left are the upgrades... hope that makes sense.
155 • I'll bite (by Anonymous on 2010-06-23 20:12:24 GMT from United States)
"I want a distro that is rock-stable, cutting-edge, blinding-fast and does everything I want from the get-go."
Let us know when you find one. Cutting-edge by definition rules out stability.
"When a single-CD distribution like Ubuntu includes wireless firmware for my laptop and a 5-DVD distribution does not, there's something wrong."
Nothing is wrong, this is done for legal reasons. Of course, you are too new to be familiar with the simple fix:
root@noobix# nano /etc/apt/sources.list
Add debian-multimedia, enable the non-free and contrib repos and you're good to go. Debian leaves this up to the user. They cannot verify the integrity of closed code they cannot inspect and will not put it in the mainline. Use non-free if you like.. Before you bash Debian, you should recognize that without them, you would not have your kiddie distro of choice. Show a little respect.
156 • Reservations about 100% cloud computing (by Marti Martinson on 2010-06-23 20:16:53 GMT from United States)
My current distro is a stock Ubuntu 10.4 LTS. I have only downloaded GRAMPS, firestarter, and Xiphos packages, and the BOINC binary, that are outside the standard install. I've faithfully UPDATE and UPGRADED since 7.10 but plan now to stay on the LTS releases.
Not being a developer, I am amazed at even those who only take another's base distro, change the window manager, remove some apps, and give it their own new name. Yes, I am talking about Peppermint. It is fast and looks very cool; operates fine.
My concern is with dedicated 100% cloud computing. My Verizon DSL has been completely down LESS THAN 8 or 9 times in the 6 years I have had it, but if I NEEDED a document or calendar and could not GET to it, how efficient is that? I like the fact that google docs will let me upload to my repository, but I cannot see being dependent on a net connection to function for everything.
Debris, Lubuntu, Spri, WattOS, and other Ubuntu based "lighter" distros I hope will fill the need for keeping older, recycled PCs alive. I just could not commit to depending on the Net.....Then again, I could always just put OpenOffice on Peppermint, couldn't I?
If you do not like a distro please do not trash the effort. Just don't use it.
157 • re: 152 (by jake on 2010-06-23 20:22:25 GMT from United States)
Oh, I dunno. My first "PC" was an LSI-11 based Heath H11A. Dad & I built it, I was pre-teen & had no issues with the command line (or a soldering iron, for that matter). Later, I brought home an AT&T 3B1 "UNIX[tm] PC". My daughter was three-ish. She grew up with that box on her desk, and before age 7 was writing simple shell scripts and BASIC programs. Today, she's a programmer and world-traveling technical systems troubleshooter for a Fortune-50; her business card reads "Senior Member of the Technical Staff". She's only 25 years old.
Sometimes I worry that we're losing something almost undefinable, now that most users have no concept of how their computers work. Then I see my 19 year old neighbor re-installing the rebuilt 302 in his '69 Mustang, and I realize there will always be a subset of people who actually understand how complete systems work.
158 • LMAO (by Ron Gibbs on 2010-06-23 20:28:31 GMT from United States)
Comments from all over the place, most having absolutely NOTHING to do with the review on Peppermint 1, and most by folks who haven't even tried it out (reminds me of the stupid Obama administration, who don't read anything, but jump all over it with disdain). It make me laugh so hard I almost piss myself. Trolls, heck, that's an insult to trolls, lmao. These are people who love nothing better to do than to jump on any topic, and take the other side, just to see what they can stir up. Losers is a far better word. Get a life, if you don't like Linux, or something other than what you like, FINE! Go have a happy time with it, and save you frigging blood pressure for crying out loud! What is wrong with people today? Why try and crap on someone else's parade? It just makes me laugh at the lengths people will go to, to try and be the center of attention. Don't waste your time flaming me by the way. I won't be back every two seconds like yourselves to see what some one said about what I said. LMAO
159 • Re: #158 (by sly on 2010-06-23 21:28:56 GMT from United States)
Your off-handed weak comment about the Obama administration is similar to the comments by others that you just jumped on. It has absolutely no bearing to the topic of the week. It has nothing remotely to do with Linux. Do you know what the topic of the week is??....'Peppermint Linux'. OK, now come back and comment on the topic of the week, or something specific in about another person's comment regarding Linux or FOSS. Leave your politics at home.
160 • New Peppermint One "openboxed-lxde'd" window managed ... does Santa exist? ... (by meanpt on 2010-06-23 22:03:34 GMT from Portugal)
... or is it a miracle? ... is it really based on 10.04 or still on 9.10 ?
So far I thought UNE (Ubuntu Network Edition) was the only 10.04 I could use within the 400 - 450 MB of RAM with a minimum acceptable running speed. I was wrong.
While I was browsing some nice comments around with my preferred Mint, the 8 LXDE, I stuck with the announcement of this ... well, the developers call it re-spin. Downloaded it, mounted it in a VBOX machine with 430 MB of RAM and fired it up. Surprise, surprise, it boots fast to live mode, that was my thought. Lets feel it ... and then ... the shock ... the feeling was that of the Mint 8 I had shut down some moments ago ... then, the doubt ... Is it based on 9.04? An installation is needed ... Installation done, first clicks revealed a small delay response but nothing compared to the former release ... and I'm still confused ... is this based on the 10.04 or on the 9 .10 Ubuntu LXDE?
A look at the software manager showed Chromium could be installed. In the UNE I had to create a ppa (for a newbie like me, working on a trial and error base, this turned a bit stressful) but now that's not needed. Fine. And here I am, posting from the glorious open sourced Chromium. I'm still experiencing the pointer lagging a bit from time to time. Tha'ts something I don't experience with Mint 8. There is no doubt, this is a 10.04. Maybe it's time for the buntus learn from Mum$oft, and getting rid of the Vista equivalent bloating for a more streamlined and efficient 7. Let's get back to 9.10.
To the developers: my congratulations, as you did what I thought to the impossible, making a 10.04 decently workable. Now, ... well, I'm not going to get rid of those fancy cloudy things but, where is blender and OpenOfice? Aha, there tey are ... And here we go again ...
161 • Cloud Computing and Google (by Landor on 2010-06-23 23:09:04 GMT from Canada)
Quite a few people here have shown their concern for Google and Cloud computing. I myself only use one google service pretty well (other than search), I use gmail for all the cruft online I don't want in my main mailbox.
That said, Google's just become a whole lot scarier. Anyone following what's going on about Google and the Street Maps news? It seems that people for Google while out and about taking pictures of streets everywhere were also data-mining. They were collecting information from any open wifi they came across and now they're outrage all over the world about it, for good reason.
Cloud computing? Google? Operating systems that encourage it? No thanks.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
162 • @161: The Cloud (by KevinC on 2010-06-24 01:40:03 GMT from United States)
Speaking of google, I recall an interesting article awhile back related to trust:
http://www.itworld.com/open-source/109099/so-why-do-we-trust-google-our-data
One subject which you raise is raised, the wifi, data-mining episode with Google Maps, street view. The theory being that since google was up front about the entire scenario, with an "oops, our bad", full disclosure, vs Facebook's obfuscation concerning their privacy policy; well ppl. are willing to write that off. I would bet my bottom dollar google was logging wireless network info cross referenced with locations...they just snagged private data on unsecured networks by accident.
163 • RE: 162 (by Landor on 2010-06-24 01:55:36 GMT from Canada)
It's ok to say, oops, our bad, but they continued to do it. That makes it more suspect. I know a lot of countries don't have as strict privacy laws as Canada does, but I could easily see Google falling under multiple lawsuits. I don't think it would matter much that the traffic was wide open, only the fact that Google readily, and continually obtained it, while in that vicinity of course.
This is what happens when you give a monolithic giant even more room to flex. They're a truly scary company and a reason I won't use their browser. I figure it's bad enough the know my IP, what I search, sites that e-mail me. I'm not going to give them the opportunity to data-mine every single one of my interests via their browser, let alone the rest of their "cloud".
Companies like this want everyone plugged in and enthralled. If they step over the line a little bit, a bit of an apology and some cash thrown your way fixes everything for them and they keep on pluggin' away, they can afford to. Google is just as monolithic as MS or Oracle. I'm truly shocked so many countries have allowed a lot of their practices to continue.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
164 • LUBUNTU FTW (by ix on 2010-06-24 07:07:05 GMT from Romania)
I've never tried Peppermint and I don't think I ever will but I will give my opinion on it.
I believe Peppermint is just Lubuntu, after removing some real apps and replacing them with links (I know it has some Mint tools too).
By the way, I love Lubuntu and I've been using it since it was released. I don't understand why Peppermint gets more attention than "the real thing" - Lubuntu.
DON'T PANIC
165 • plan9 and Linux (by anony on 2010-06-24 08:05:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
There has been several efforts to join PLan9 OS to the Linux OS. But nothing has come of it yet. Is there hope for this hybrid or is it a dead duck, since Plan9 has been discontinued? Maybe someone could do an article on the success or otherwise of hybrids - like Solaris and Linux, and Plan9 and Linux - any others?
166 • 164 • LUBUNTU FTW (by ix (by meanpt on 2010-06-24 10:41:22 GMT from Portugal)
"I believe Peppermint is just Lubuntu, after removing some real apps and replacing them with links (I know it has some Mint tools too)."
Before yesterday's release, that wasn't true, Peppermint was heavier than Lubuntu. Now, things are more even, regarding the running speed.
"By the way, I love Lubuntu and I've been using it since it was released. I don't understand why Peppermint gets more attention than "the real thing" - Lubuntu."
Me neither. Maybe the hype of being a newly launched distro with those prismatic stuff. Who cares?
167 • @ 160 166 • New Peppermint One re-spin (by forlin on 2010-06-24 11:53:27 GMT from Portugal)
Thanks for the feed back regarding your experiment with the new Peppermint. I've been caught from your enthusiasm. I've got the previous release already installed and I'm going to install the new one in a different partition. I'm curious to know about the improvements and with both OS's in the same box will be easier to compare and measure the performance increase.
Ah..., about @ 134. No, I don't use TOR, so in fact we are "country fellows". Being a small country where the rate of Linux users may be similar to the global share, and not all of them feel comfortable to comment in english, it's nice to meet here other local user fellows.
Regarding the 3G and Peppermint, I do confirm they're a perfect match because the live cd has the version 0.8.0 of networkmanager. Anyone interested to know what 3g models are supported, Wikipedia has a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Networkmanager.
As a side note, Lubunto has the same software, but it doesn't detect my Huawei 3g and other models. That's because the standard iso do not Include "modemmanager", which is a file required for some models.
168 • 67 • @ 160 166 • New Peppermint One re-spin (by forlin (by meanpt on 2010-06-24 14:34:40 GMT from Portugal)
Nice to read you and thanks for the info. Already bookmarked the link and took note of "modemmanager" :) Linux rocks!
169 • re#163 (by hab on 2010-06-24 14:49:16 GMT from Canada)
For myself, the surprise in all this is not so much that companies (like Google) are dipping into areas that they should not but that so many unsecured wifi access points exist.
On my own systems, and i do have a wifi access point (running linux) i am responsible for security. If Google street viewers drive by and capture date off my systems then that is my bad for improper security not Google's for the (perhaps illegal) drive by capture.
There is still a widespread nativity about security in the computer using world.
Remember locks were invented to keep honest people out.
Cheers
170 • 1.) Google, and 2.) a wave of remixes (by Barnabyh on 2010-06-24 16:29:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
1.) According to this http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/google284.html link Germany wants to put more privacy restrictions on Google's activities in regards to collecting data, particularly on streetview which is not yet online there due to a number of complaints from the public , and privacy concerns. So it can be done if enough people give a s___ .
Whether they actually understand what they are legislating and if it will be successful is another matter.
2.) According to my feed reader Zenwalk 6.4 is out with Openbox. Will the respins and remixes never end? Seems that's the new way, and they're all competing now with one respin per window manager. Ladislav will have a hard time keeping up with all the release announcements. And should we now have one page on DW per respin?
Anyway, I'm not complaining, it's just that it got even busier. I'll give this one a try.
171 • 170 • ... and 2.) a wave of remixes (by Barnabyh (by meanpt on 2010-06-24 18:14:36 GMT from Portugal)
"Anyway, I'm not complaining, it's just that it got even busier. I'll give this one a try"
:) seems people at ZenWalk wants to break the sound barrier ... :):):) ... maybe that's a cousin's war (is it, Vector?) ... I'm tempted to bet their next respin will be a KDE 3.5.x :) ,,, only regret not being able to truly compile the graphics modules of vbox guest additions ...
172 • @170 (by Lucky Leroy on 2010-06-24 18:37:45 GMT from Serbia)
Thanks for the Zenwalk Openbox tip, downloading now :)
Ladislav already seems to have a hard time tracking all that... OB is not listed in Zenwalk's page 'ere.
173 • Kiddie Distros (by Robin on 2010-06-24 19:35:47 GMT from United States)
Most of the "Linux kids" I know don't use the so-called "newbie distros" or "kiddie distros." They want to be as technically savvy as they can be. They like to show off their "mad geek skillz." You find them using Arch, Crunchbang, Debian, and Gentoo.
But most of the grownup Linux users I know DO use the so-called "kiddie" distros because they're not into running the OS, they just want to run applications. They actually use the computer for more than just making it faster, lighter, more streamlined, more powerful, whatever. That doesn't mean they don't have "mad geek skillz," and it doesn't mean that they should be ashamed of themselves for using Ubuntu or Mepis or PCLinuxOS instead of Linux From Scratch or something.
I wonder how many adult Linux advocates have gone silent because they've been wrongly made to feel inferior simply because they don't spend hours or days compiling and building and tweaking their OS rather than just USING it to run the applications they need.
I also wonder if "kiddie distros" aren't simply VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN SUCCESS. Here's what I mean: A lot of ultra-advanced-mega-super-geeks have worked very hard for many years in order to make Linux usable by "ordinary desktop users." Well it worked! Now these same people are complaining that Linux has attracted too many of us "ordinary users" who "are content to just use the GUI."
Um, with all due respect: What did you EXPECT to happen when you made Linux simple and easy enough even for a little autistic kid like me to use? I didn't care to "learn Windows," I just used it to get at my applications. So why now, after you have made Linux even simpler than Windows, do you expect me to care about "learning Linux?"
Thank God for "kiddie" distros. If some techno-snobs think less of me for using one, I don't really care. But don't talk about "competing" for "market share" on one hand while talking down to your own "customers" on the other.
An unashamed kid unashamedly using a kiddie distro,
Robin
174 • 173 • Kiddie Distros (by mapnt on 2010-06-24 20:20:43 GMT from Portugal)
Amen!
"An unashamed kid unashamedly using a kiddie distro,"
... What? ... you're only using one kiddie distro? Get lost! You should be ashamed :):):):) ... uncle meanpt plays with almost all kiddies, provided they are lean and fast :)
175 • RE: 173 (by Landor on 2010-06-24 22:33:54 GMT from Canada)
Kiddie=Absurdity/Maturity (for the most part) of the community that surrounds such a distribution. I'm pretty sure I've made that clear when I've used the term. I've found you intelligent the couple times I've read your statement, so I'm pretty sure you understand how measuring maturity isn't snobbish, or elite. Unless you feel that viewing an immature act (which is a perception) and classifying it as such is Elitism. :)
Here's an example of absurdness in our community, based on people's perceptions. I just read a headline about how Network Manager is going to turn people away from Linux. That is an absurd headline. The author might as well have wrote that using a penguin as a mascot will turn people away from Linux. Code names will turn people away from Linux. All that crap says is someone has a gripe in Linux and their world is shattered and they think the whole Linux community will fall apart at the seams due to "their one specific complaint". Only thing that will turn someone away from Linux is their desire to leave it, or not try it. Simple.
It's like the people that state that someone of the discussions here will turn people away from Linux, absurd. Ladislav has about 90k in visitors roughly (I do believe) the people that comment here are a niche group within that number, I'm sure he has stats though about how many of those unique IPs do read the comments as well. But to say that new users that come here and read this part of the site will immediately leave and never use Linux unless we're all giving one another warm and fuzzies is ludicrously absurd.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
176 • @173 (by Patrick on 2010-06-24 22:42:57 GMT from United States)
"""A lot of ultra-advanced-mega-super-geeks have worked very hard for many years in order to make Linux usable by "ordinary desktop users." Well it worked! Now these same people are complaining that Linux has attracted too many of us "ordinary users" who "are content to just use the GUI."
Um, with all due respect: What did you EXPECT to happen when you made Linux simple and easy enough even for a little autistic kid like me to use?"""
I'm convinced that those are not the same people showing both attitudes. It is my theory that the "ultra-advanced-mega-super-geeks" that are the developers of Linux and associated programs really want as many people as possible to use their stuff, including "ordinary users who just use the GUI". Their ego's get a boost from seeing as many people as possible use their stuff, so they work hard to accomplish that.
The people who complain about "ordinary users" are the power users, the sys-admins, the IT professionals. Their ego's get a boost from being able to use complicated programs, being able to do things with a computer that no ordinary user can do. So when things are made simpler so that ordinary users can now do the same things they used to be able to brag about, their ego's get a hit and they hate it.
177 • Patrick is Right (by Robin on 2010-06-24 23:05:00 GMT from United States)
You're right, Patrick. It seems to be mostly an ego trip they're on, whether the ones calling "kiddie distro" or the ones who create them and enjoy the praise and gratitude of people like me. The latter I think is harmless, and I'm happy to provide a little ego boost to the folks who make Linux available to "ordinary users."
I think the folks on the other side deserve praise for their expertise as well, and I for one am very grateful to find that large numbers of them participate in "kiddie distro" forums offering help to others, even if they secretly hold us in contempt.
The only time it's a problem for me is when that contempt is NOT hidden. And I've been around long enough to have noticed a little contempt on BOTH sides.
178 • :) ... playing witn another kiddie stuff ... ZenWalk's Openbox(ed) ,,, (by meanpt on 2010-06-25 07:58:05 GMT from Portugal)
... I love toys ... in fact, I can't decide if this weekend I'm going boat fishing ... flying my r/c electric airplane in the neighbourhood ... or explore a new distro ... or take my sweet and young golden retriever bitch to the beach ... hum ... love my pets, the golden takes the lead ... grilled sardines with an iced green wine with friend's ... right, enough of these.
... about ZenWalk ... nor faster, neither slower than the Xfce's (but, between you and me, I always felt LXDE faster than the boxes, excepion made for the openboxed PCLOS) , same ZW fasssssssst feeling, a real clever desktop background that, despite the dark mood, makes you smile of the people looking at the ZW logo show ... being this a virtual installation, can't tell much on the hardware recognition ... same problems with mouse integration in vbox ... then, there is the hidding wbar "à la ZenWalk" ... sakura shows the usual 114 ram usage with firefox opened, no swaped stuff ... oh ... I'm beeing spoiled ... this is a good World to live in, indeed ...
179 • @178 (by Leroy on 2010-06-25 09:33:02 GMT from Serbia)
I'm glad to read about your beach antics especially seeing how rainy and gray it is here today.
But look, this: "(...) always felt LXDE faster than the boxes"....
Being a box enthusiast, I take this as an insult, a flame, and a call to all out war :)
Just kiddin :) Haven't had time to install Zenwalk Ob yet. But seriously, that statement about LXDE, which is Openbox with stuff needlessly slapped on top of it, is absurd. Sure it depends on how the thing is implemented. And still it's an absurd statement.
Also I guess speed is best shown via benchmarks, not feelings.
And then, have you tried Awesome :)
180 • 180 • @178 (by Leroy (by meanpt on 2010-06-25 10:05:27 GMT from Portugal)
"And still it's an absurd statement.
Also I guess speed is best shown via benchmarks, not feelings."
:) ... that was not a statement. I can't measure milliseconds, but even different benchmarking software may provide different conclusions for the same OS, as I've read about that. I know the "feeling" isn't an objective measure neither am I defending it but in the end it's all you end with to take conclusions and make a choice, like almost everything in life. In this world of subjectivity some times things can't be compared at all. By applying real objective criteria I couldn't compare Mint 8 LXDE with Mint 8 Fluxbox cause they may not have been developed by the same team nor with the same knowledge and intentions, but I can say LXDE felt faster and I kept it. You put it right, the quality of the implementation may differ and that's why I was pretty cautions in saying "it feels" instead of "it is", cause the later would be a really and not a supportable strong statement. Anyway, I would like to see a good lxde "implementation" respin in ZenWalk to ... get the feeling of it :)
181 • @ 179 - @178 (by Leroy (by meanpt on 2010-06-25 10:13:42 GMT from Portugal)
The former post was a reply to 179 and I still want to add: I'm also a supporter of the lightest but completely functional desktop environments. If I could, I would always work in the MS Windows safety mode ... which I do half of the time I have to work with it.
182 • @ everyone (by harrod on 2010-06-25 10:17:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've read this page every day this week and been amazed at how it has descended into a slanging match, just because this week, Distrowatch decided to publish a review of Peppermint and some of you don't like it!
For what it's worth, I don't think Peppermint is doing anything new - remember GOS anyone? That shipped with Mozilla Prism and Google Gears I believe to achieve this web-app in it's own window thing. What I'm not sure is how this affects memory usage. Is running 5 web apps in separate windows more memory intensive than running them in 5 tabs?
BTW, not everyone can develop a distro from scratch including their own repo on the resources they have. With the thousands of packages now available, this is really for the big corporate backed or major community distros. That shouldn't stop 1 or 2 people with an idea to base of an existing distro and try and innovate. Sure the result might be 1% innovation to 99% borrowed, but that 1% could be taken on board by other distros and make an important impact to Linux as a whole.
183 • @153, 155 Debian Firmware (by merlin on 2010-06-25 12:41:03 GMT from Canada)
The standard Debian repositories contain a lot of firmware necessary to get your wireless cards active. The Intel 5000 series seems to be a popular wireless card in laptops these days and it is supported by the firmware-iwlwifi package in the non-free repository.
184 • Forget a few deletions (by rec9140 on 2010-06-25 16:41:30 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
185 • LXDE distro: Mint or Lubuntu or...? (by koinsky on 2010-06-25 17:24:51 GMT from Portugal)
Hello!
I'm looking for an LXDE distro with a good selection of lightweight apps (eg. midori, abiword+gnumeric, epdfview, claws, etc instead of firefox, openoffice, acroread, thunderbird, etc) and pre-installed codecs, so that I can have a working system on an old low-spec machine without spending too much time
on the installation. Another important point is the lifetime (support): I've selected those above as they are based on Ubuntu 10.04 which is an LTS release.
So which one is better? Are there any others that I've missed?
PS:
I prefer debian-based distros although I'm willing to consider a slackware-based
one.
Thanks for your suggestions!
186 • Lubuntu: LTS or not? (by koinsky on 2010-06-25 17:38:59 GMT from Portugal)
I'm confused by this:
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06045
So Lubuntu-10.04 is based on Ubuntu-10.04 (which is LTS)
but it isn't LTS itself !? Can anyone explain this?
187 • @185 (by fernbap on 2010-06-25 18:37:21 GMT from Portugal)
Depending on the use you will give to your computer, all are good: Lubuntu, Mint Lxde, Zenwalk (i'm sure i'm missing several, but i only speak of those i tried).
Mint is more a general purpose environment, wand includes all the major players in the apps business: open office, pidgin, firefox, transmission, mplayer, etc.
Both Lubuntu and Zenwalk come with more lightweight apps, so it depends mostly on what apps you want to use. And, of course, on the computer they are to be installed.
Zenwalk, however, not being debian based, has less apps to chose from (if you're not the compile-from-source kind of guy). Lubuntu and Mint use the huge Ubuntu/debian repos, with the broadest selection of apps you can get.
188 • RE: post 186 by koinsky (by LeBlanc on 2010-06-25 18:58:39 GMT from France)
"So Lubuntu-10.04 is based on Ubuntu-10.04 (which is LTS)
but it isn't LTS itself !? Can anyone explain this?"
Click and read.
http://lubuntu.net/blog/lubuntu-1004-now-available-download
189 • RE: 142 by davemc (by DShelbyD on 2010-06-25 20:05:29 GMT from United States)
"Cloud Computing stuff - ... I would really like to see more discussion on this topic here on DWW. Why? Because "it's coming" .... The FSF and indeed all of us are going to have to come to grips with this phenomenon ... how we choose to deal with it is going to have to "make sense" for FOSS and FOSS users without sacrificing our ideals and values as a community."
In that same spirit (and FWIW) here is a link to a recent notice of funding availability (NOFA) from the U.S. National Science Foundation: http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2010/nsf10550/nsf10550.htm?org=NSF
This NOFA indicates considerable interest in research on the practical applications of cloud computing by the NSF Directorate (read "top-level department") for Computer & Information Science & Engineering and 6 other Directorates including those for biology, mathematics, physics, behavioral studies, economics, and other academic fields -- a broad cooperative!
From the Program Description in the NOFA: "the research community is encouraged to be creative in its use in its own right, in combination with other software, hardware, and data infrastructure, and in the development of innovative applications that can exploit it. For example, the emerging "client plus cloud" model has the potential to change the paradigm of scholarly research."
And this interesting/informative statement immediately following: "Cloud computing is already changing our daily lives. Internet search has transformed our view of how information can be accessed and organized, and applications on our cell phones use cloud services to translate our current physical location to locate nearby resources. By extending the capabilities of powerful, easy-to-use desktop and mobile client applications to cloud services, it may be possible to foster new collaborative research communities and accelerate scientific discovery."
I submit this information as a contribution to the discussion -- a specific location for a little bit of cloud information as well as an important sign IMO of focus on cloud concepts and the investment by the U.S. government, non-governmental agencies, and especially academic institutions in cloud computing research. To me, it will be interesting to see (probably early 2011) the names of organizations that receive awards -- and, in particular, the brief abstracts stating the nature and goals of the projects.
190 • 182 - @ everyone (by forlin on 2010-06-25 21:08:21 GMT from Portugal)
"amazed at how it has descended into a slanging match"
That's true and unfair! This is a useful place for the exchange of experiences, ideas and suggestions between all those interested about the distros reviewed. Jumping against the reviewer, the distro and it's users, with more muscle than sense, like a few have done, can only lead to heated and prolonged discussions, and will demotivate many to participate and get involved.
DWW is the only Linux site that reviews a distro almost every week. This has a triple advantage: The users know where and when to go to learn about a new distro, attracts more visitors to the site and increase the chances that small and new distributions will also be reviewed and become better known. In total it will be about 50 reviews in a year, which gives room to cover a wide spectrum of users and distro characteristics. So, there's no reason to complain if our preferred distro was not reviewed yet. It's possible that it's already in the pipe for the following week, or planned to come in a near future.
191 • Comments (by Landor on 2010-06-25 23:38:51 GMT from Canada)
I'll be the first to admit some of my comments can be harsh at times, but almost never at the "individual". This week was no exception. Ladislav doesn't allow us to edit our comments and thus I was unable to retract my statements like "half-baked" and "pumped up juice box" (which the latter by the way I have no idea what it actually means, but it fit my train of thought at the time..lol).
Not an attack on others posting either, but you start seeing comments about it being "sexy", "stupid fast" (does anyone know what that even really means? "stupid fast"), that it's going to be number 1, etc, etc... and just as much as people may view my comments having no quality behind them (though I could easily give a definite meaning and have tried though Ladislav has felt obliged to delete them), these comments from others give absolutely nothing in the way of facts or information as to their actual merit. They're pure fanboi-ish comments, nothing more. An example here, there's not one distribution that Firefox loads "stupid fast" on that I've used on umpteen boxes for Linux, so what denotes fast. In that regard every single flavour is the exact same.
Here's a great article I just read that made me think of this. It's not exactly to do with distributions, more so different operating systems, though the thought process is the same. I also like the first comment.
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/put-your-knowledge-where-your-mouth-is-39578
Keep your stick on the ice....
Landor
192 • "Reverse Cloud" Computing (by merlin on 2010-06-26 00:23:16 GMT from Canada)
I've been thinking of cloud computing lately, but in a kind of reverse way. When most people think of cloud computing they think of storing files remotely or using online applications such as word processing from some big provider on the internet. Google Apps and Dropbox being good examples.
I'd like to set up something of the opposite. An energy efficient NAS (something like a sheevaplug) at home with full encryption (storage and access), vpn, various access protocols, custom scripts, etc. and expose it to the internet. Then move all the files from my home computers (currently only two :-) on to the new box. At home, use my existing desktop and notebook as thick clients, with all data being stored on the NAS. While away form home, use the notebook or Linux on a USB stick, and set them up so I can access my personal cloud. I don't have a static IP so it may make it a little more challenging and fun to set things up to be able to 'phone home' and access my files.
I think two of the big issues with cloud computing and virtually any online activity where you have to divulge or store personal information, are the issues of security and trust. Is your data secure, and do you trust the provider with your data. Even if it's an incorrect perception, I think hackers want to target the bigger storage pools (such as dropbox, ubuntu one, etc.) because they get a lot more bang for their buck if they break in. The personal or reverse clouds such as what I'm thinking offer too little, for too much work on their part to gain access.
193 • ownclould (by Danum on 2010-06-28 10:19:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
#192, take a look at ownclould, the only security issues you will get are by your own makeing.
Quote: As an added benefit, users concerned about their online security and privacy can stay in full control of their own data by running their own cloud server.
http://owncloud.org/index.php/Main_Page
Number of Comments: 193
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