 DistroWatch Weekly |
| Tip Jar |
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
(Tips this week: 0, value: US$0.00) |
|
|
|
 bc1qxes3k2wq3uqzr074tkwwjmwfe63z70gwzfu4lx  lnurl1dp68gurn8ghj7ampd3kx2ar0veekzar0wd5xjtnrdakj7tnhv4kxctttdehhwm30d3h82unvwqhhxarpw3jkc7tzw4ex6cfexyfua2nr  86fA3qPTeQtNb2k1vLwEQaAp3XxkvvvXt69gSG5LGunXXikK9koPWZaRQgfFPBPWhMgXjPjccy9LA9xRFchPWQAnPvxh5Le paypal.me/distrowatchweekly • patreon.com/distrowatch |
|
| Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
|
|
| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Jesse, I've got questions to all your answers, but here's a few more: (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 12:23:42 GMT from Romania)
1. There should be no need for Ubuntu Studio: Why can't a real-time kernel be the DEFAULT for a distro which is meant to be a Desktop one, not a server one?
For servers, there is Ubuntu Server Edition, right? (Plain servers or cloud stuff, etc.)
2. Why is Xubuntu benefiting of such a low amount of love?
Yes, it's still somewhat lighter than the GNOME edition. On my hardware, here's the LiveCD default memory usage (the "-/+ buffers cache" line of `mem', in Ctrl-Alt-F2 console):
Ubuntu 164040 k
Xubuntu 138700 k
15% lighter in memory, and possibly even more responsive as a whole.
Plus, the installed Xubuntu, with a few applets loaded, has a 'net' RAM usage of 122 MB, as reported by xfce4-taskmanager.
Yet, Canonical doesn't care about Xubuntu: no Ship-It and also it's not available in the Canonical Store!
2 • Oh, I forgot the link: (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 12:24:24 GMT from Romania)
http://beranger.tumblr.com/post/214114464/who-said-xubuntu-is-heavier-than-ubuntu
3 • Re: Puppy (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 12:28:13 GMT from United States)
There are two kinds of linux distributions: the kind everyone complains about and the kind nobody uses. :)
Actually that is adapted from a quote on programming languages, but the idea is the same.
I like Puppy linux... I hope we'll see more of it in the future.
4 • Poor Puppy! (by Gene Venable on 2009-11-02 12:30:27 GMT from United States)
Barry Kauler is basically the L. Ron Hubbard of Puppy Linux and really shouldn't complain about criticism. He's just too sensitive.
5 • About Xubuntu (by Linux Affic on 2009-11-02 12:39:18 GMT from United States)
"Nevertheless, it's still somewhat lighter than Ubuntu"
This statement is 100% false. Xubuntu is actually HEAVIER and MORE resource intensive than its big brother Ubuntu.
6 • RE: 5 No, it's not. (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 12:43:01 GMT from Romania)
Xubuntu is actually HEAVIER and MORE resource intensive than its big brother Ubuntu.
No, it's not. Everyone has read "that article", but no one actually TRIED the released LiveCDs! Try them YOURSELF.
I did, and here's the memory usage after discarding the buffers/cache:
-- Ubuntu 164040 k
-- Xubuntu 138700 k
7 • About Xubuntu and Ubuntu (by xchin on 2009-11-02 12:53:13 GMT from Turkey)
yes. Xubuntu 15% lighter in memory, and possibly even more responsive as a whole
8 • On good "base" distributions (by Felix Pleşoianu on 2009-11-02 12:53:16 GMT from Romania)
I'd like to point out Arch Linux as an alternative. See, while distros *based* on Debian are usually very nice, I completely failed to turn plain Debian (stable) into a usable desktop. I suspect it takes a lot more work than I'm willing to put into it. Arch, on the other hand, has been amazingly easy to set up, with the best online documentation I've seen in a distro, period, and quick, clean solutions to every problem I encountered. Plus, it manages to be stable enough while being cutting, nay, bleeding edge (staying very close to upstream might have something to do with that). YMMV - it always does with Linux distros - but if you want to build your system from the ground up Arch is definitely worth considering.
9 • Best "base" Linux distribution (by Z K Dabek on 2009-11-02 13:03:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
The concept of "best base distribution" needs to be examined a little more carefully. I would have agreed some years ago that "Sarge" would have fitted the bill...but with the current rapidity of Software/Firmware/Hardware development I found it too time consuming to run a single distro where most things could be persuaded to work often after many hours of experimentation.
It was much easier/less time consuming to use a number of distributions ( I now mainly use Fedora, Ubuntu & Debian Lenny) to cover each other's deficiencies. Debian Lenny is the stable FSF base. Ubuntu gives me extra drivers and conveniently packaged non-FSF software, while Fedora is the bleeding edge. I tried Sidux, but there were always too many random broken packages for normal use. Formerly a KDE user, I now find KDE4 too arkward, with much software not working yet, and have moved over to Gnome for the present. It is really quite exasperating. Could NOT recommend Linux desktop to a normal user. I just enjoy the challenge. MS windows works well for the 99% of average users despite all its shortcomings.
10 • Surprisingly, OpenSUSE 11.2 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 13:06:25 GMT from Romania)
openSUSE 11.2 RC GNOME seems to be very slightly lighter than Ubuntu. The LiveCD on my hardware shown the following memory usage (-/+ buffers cache) after the autologin and connecting to the LAN:
-- openSUSE: 160 053 k
-- Ubuntu 164 040 k
And openSUSE 11.2 RC is preconfigured with Compiz, Mono stuff, etc.
11 • Re: #5, About Xubuntu (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-02 13:11:47 GMT from France)
> Xubuntu is actually HEAVIER and MORE resource
> intensive than its big brother Ubuntu.
... that's nonsense. As Béranger has pointed out it IS lighter than both, Gnome and KDE! I used Xubuntu exclusively between 7.04 and 8.10 on my HP notebook. Over the weekend I made a temporary HDD installation with Xubuntu 9.10. I found it a lot more snappy than Gnome and the default theme is attractive. Obviously, there are still a few things missing in Xfce, e.g. a comfortable way to edit the main menu. But it's in the works. Xfce 4.8 is scheduled for early next year (hopefully in time for 10.04) and will come with a brand-new menu editor and some other new stuff. With all the latest features included Xfce will hopefully become a bit more mainstream.
12 • "base" Linux distribution (by h2s on 2009-11-02 13:11:53 GMT from China)
how about LFS?one will never complain because everything is left to the user to figure and configure!
13 • Linux Mint 7 ROCKS (by Robert on 2009-11-02 13:18:25 GMT from United States)
Yesterday I succeeded in converting my neighbour to Linux Mint 7. She had a Windows Vista laptop, and her harddrive died a few weeks ago. She went to the computer shop with it and they wanted to charge her like 200 euro's for a new harddrive plus a new OS, because she had a OEM version (not too sure about the exact reason though).
I advised her to get the laptop back from that shop and I tossed out the harddrive and let her buy a new 2.5 harddrive. I installed Linux Mint 7 and managed to get everything working (there is still 1 thing missing, if you look at what she is used to do on Windows).
I managed to configure ekiga so she could use her highly needed sip account to make international calls to her home country. I configured pidgin and skype and everything worked perfectly. I even installed the avast security suit for Linux because she insisted on having that.
However, the only thing she was complaining about is that her webcam is not supported in Pidgin (or I couldn't find a way to make it work). Her webcam does work in Skype though!! Today I asked a friend of mine for some help regarding this issue and he advised me to look at Kopete, because apparently he managed to get his webcam working with it.
This last part is the only reason I wouldn't give Linux Mint a 10/10. But overall we can conclude that Linux Mint is THE Linux desktop and I am comfortable suggesting it to ordinary people!!
I was so delighted everything worked out well and will continue to monitor her experience with this desktop. I will even try to convince her to donate some money to the Linux Mint developers because they deserve it.
For me (and my noob neighbour):
Linux Mint 7 > Ubuntu
14 • Xfce (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-02 13:21:29 GMT from France)
P.S.: I wonder why the Xfce developers still bother with things like their own editor mousepad, their own picture viewer etc. As there are not many people actively developing for Xfce, wouldn't it be much better to concentrate on the desktop itself? Thunar could also do with a little more attention. It still lags behind PcmanFM in some respects.
15 • RE: 14 • Xfce (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 13:29:11 GMT from Romania)
" things like their own editor mousepad" -- because Xfce is not specifically developed for Xubuntu (which includes some GNOME libraries too).
Check out the dependencies for gedit vs. the dependencies for mousepad (or leafpad, if you wish):
http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gedit
http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/mousepad
http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/leafpad
The idea is to have Xfce self-consistent, not relying on GNOME!
This being said, I've installed gThumb atop of Xubuntu (sometimes I am using it, sometimes not), but I've also installed Xfburn and I am using it instead of Brasero.
16 • The best "base" distribution (by megadriver on 2009-11-02 13:30:56 GMT from Spain)
Yeah, Debian is ceirtainly nice as a "base" distribution. Arch is nicer. Gentoo is even nicer. There are also distros that actually "market" themselves as a "base" to build upon, like Tiny Core.
Heh, using the alternate installation CD, you can even install a "minimal" Ubuntu (stretching a bit the meaning of "minimal" here), Debian style, and build from there. Beware those things called "tasks", "recommended packages" and "metapackages", though (this applies to Debian, too).
17 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 13:40:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ubuntu Studio is poor and looks very rushed.
Terrible lop sided menus with one entry (firefox) in the internet section and just spell checker in the office section!
It's a bog standard Debian install, no live option, no wubi install option and graphics aren't associated with any program by default.
The default desktop is eye catchingly ugly, although that's just personal taste and easily changed.
I installed LXDE and it's dependencies which at least fleshed out the internet and office sections.
It feels solid enough in use, but that's down to Gnome, not Ubuntu Studio and taking into account it's about twice the size of normal Ubuntu (as an ISO) I expected a lot more
18 • ubuntu 9.10 (by Abe on 2009-11-02 13:43:36 GMT from Canada)
I'm not impressed with Ubuntu 9.10.Some of the icons on the desktop are small and colorless.I think I will stick with 9.04
19 • Retarded (by Not Bob on 2009-11-02 13:51:14 GMT from United States)
Doesn't anyone else just find it flipping retarded that Ubuntu is renamed and released for each Desktop Environment it chooses?
We don't have G-Fedora, K-Fedora, X-Fedora, .... there isn't an openGUSE, openKuse, openFuse, Kandriva, Gandriva.
It's not like they all don't all share the same repo's and same core of base applications. apt-get install gnome/kde/xfce/fluxbox .
20 • No subject (by Odysseas on 2009-11-02 13:54:00 GMT from Greece)
It's GIMP Toolkit not GNOME toolkit.
21 • Re: 14, Xfce (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-02 13:57:02 GMT from France)
> Check out the dependencies for gedit vs. the dependencies
> for mousepad (or leafpad, if you wish)
... yeah, I know, Gedit is a moster. It takes an eternity to load, especially when there are additional plugins, and it performs quite sluggishly. But of course it's a very powerful editor. At the moment I'm working at my girl friend's Vista PC (not good, I know). I wish there was something like Notepad2 available for Linux. It has practically everything built in that I need, including syntax highlighting, and it is very, very fast. An editor like that should be standard in any OS or desktop. I find Mousepad too simplistic and Gedit too ... well, monstrous. :-)
22 • Will Chrome be the game changer? (by Anony Moss on 2009-11-02 13:57:54 GMT from India)
Looking forward to the following things in the upcoming google project-
* Integration. Where the sum of parts is greater than the parts added up. A well put together, consistent and coherent system.
* Improved updates speed. From a recent pcworld article- "Courgette is a compression algorithm that Google developed to shrink the size of updates in order reduce bandwidth requirements for Google and its users" Bad part is google is currently being sued for this implementation, but lets hope for a quick resolution of the dispute. So, can we finally have low-bandwidth updates with delta-rpms and courgette? Go for it google!
* Better tested updates. In my current quest for stability, I'm using a popular and conservative rolling release. Prior to the latest updates, I could right-click on an image in Firefox, and change my desktop wallpaper. After the updates, this functionality is broken. Another one disappoints.
* Bring and implement fresh ideas for installation, Google. Buy a company that can do online and offline hardware scans, if you have to. Detect correct hardware, even if correct drivers do not exist, at least identify the hardware. Its almost 2010!
* GOOG, make sound work. Make all keys in the keyboard work. Get the screen resolution right. Bypass X if you have to. If you can't do it, chances are few can.
* Hope google buys technologies, rights and companies if that's how it is going to be successful in its linux-based OS. Hope it buys rights to allow end users to play mp3s, watch DVDs.
Have much more to say, but Mark Twain needs me to shut up now :>) I've written the above points knowing that some of those issues are not easily addressed, but hope to see google make a start. If nothing, one would hope that ChromeOS takes the bar a notch higher for other distros.
On another note, from this link- http://www.ghacks.net/2009/10/30/the-new-ubuntu-software-center/
Planned for ver 2 of the Software Center
# Replace Synaptic and Gdebi (Version 2).
Replace with what? Is there development currently on at Ubuntu for a better front-end to replace synaptic? Something tells me its going to take 3 Ubuntu releases for the new mechanism to surpass synaptic, unless they adopt zypper and the likes. I don't get the big deal about the Software Center, anyway. The screencasts/ shots don't show anything revolutionary. Or is all the hype about icons replacing text?
23 • RE: 21 (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 14:02:37 GMT from Romania)
I wish there was something like Notepad2 available for Linux. --> you're right, Notepad2 is excellent (colored syntax, line numbers, etc. etc.), fast, lightweight and tiny. However, AFAIR it's NOT Unicode-aware!
24 • Phoenix OS and Arch (by Jesse on 2009-11-02 14:06:34 GMT from Canada)
After someone asked about coverage of Phoenix OS last week, I took a look at the website. It looks like Kubuntu with some touch-up work to make it more user friendly. However, the website doesn't appear to be done yet. Not all the links work, there's just one screen shot and there are two download links.... but neither link is explained at all. What am I downloading? How big is it? What's the different between the two versions? I'm going to put off trying Phoenix until some missing gaps are filled in.
Some people mentioned trying Arch as a base distro. I've tried it and I agree, it would make for a good base distro, if you have a lot of Linux experience under your belt. Arch does a lot of things differently from other, more user-friendly, distributions and I didn't recommend it for that reason. Slackware, while I'm thinking about it, is also a great base, but also is different and more do-it-yourself. Debian does a fine job of walking the line between sane defaults and flexibility.
25 • Puppy (by Ray on 2009-11-02 14:31:18 GMT from United States)
I read the post from mulrah. Some peoploe are just jerks. I don't use Puppy because the program I use the most is only compatible with Internet Explorer. Linux IE6 don't work well on my machines. The program is MLXCHANGE.
Puppy has a flavor for all tastes, if mulrah wants more bling he can find use TeenPuppy or MacPuppy or EcoPup and on and on.
If he thinks it is so easy he modify can Puppy and remaster it to suit his taste.
So Barry, unless these people send you a big check I think you should ignore, them unless they have some really constructive ideas that can benefit the distro.
26 • Xubuntu (by Barnabyh on 2009-11-02 14:35:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well, it's certainly no Zenwalk but it would be truly horrific if they'd managed to make it heavier than Ubuntu.
27 • @19 retard No, it is shorthand (by Paul on 2009-11-02 14:59:53 GMT from United States)
It is true that all the *Buntu distros use the same core kernel and repositories, that is where the similarities end. Each desktop has its own file management system. Ubuntu uses gdm, Nautilus and other gnome specific libraries and programming formats. Kubuntu uses kdm, Dauphin and its associated programming technology. Xubuntu, while using gdm, has Thunar as its file management package.
You can use a package designed for Kubuntu in Ubuntu but then you have to also download all the dependencies needed that are standard in K. Example. Ubuntu uses Brasero as a disk burner and Kubuntu uses K3B. K3B, I feel is a better app but I use Ubuntu. So, I D/L K3B and all its dependencies. To get one app I have to take more than ten other items in the package to make it work.
The separate names for all the *Buntu product really serves as a shorthand when using the forums when asking for help. You don't have to list all the packages you have installed. Readers will know what you have by the distro name you give. You list like "Getting the microwave to fix pop corn using Ubuntu 6.06" and you can be assured that only those with an interest in that combination will respond. Though, most responses will be that there was not a popcorn/microwave interface until Ubuntu 8.10 but there was a CLI script in U7.10.
DISCLAIMER: While the above example is, some would say, a bit flippant and sarcastic, the way peripherals are being added to the home computer system, the computer directed kitchen is no longer a Jane Jetson fantasy. If anyone can write a Linux program to make perfectly nuked popcorn, it will truly be the end of Windows.
Paul
28 • @19 (by Reuben on 2009-11-02 15:31:10 GMT from United States)
I somewhat agree. It's part of Ubuntu's effort to make users of "alternative" desktops feel like they're using an "alternative" desktop.
29 • *Buntu's, Arch, and things (by davemc on 2009-11-02 15:32:36 GMT from United States)
Congrats to Canonical on their latest! 9.10 looks great all around! Im still using 8.04 on my production machines and probably will stick with that for now, but 10.04 is going to be a "must do" upgrade if it stays on track with the improvements of 9.10.
Im still using ArchLinux on my big rig as well, and its still rock stable to this very day since initial install back in May. However, some users did report some issues after last weekends xorg updates (mainly that aweful ATi card FOSS hater) and it seems the latest and greatest xorg no longer supports legacy Nvidia cards (Ti4200 to name one). Worked without issues for my Nvidia 8800 though :)
30 • correction to #29 (by davemc on 2009-11-02 15:34:04 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I meant the latest 190 Nvidia driver no longer supports legacy cards.
31 • @ #19 (by Richard Cranium on 2009-11-02 15:36:19 GMT from Canada)
I would agree with you. People (supposedly) get confused and tetchy over Windows SKUs, and yet Ubuntu is the one who is truly running away with the idea of discriminating differing feature subsets by creating a new distribution name for each one.
Lubuntu will add to the madness next spring? Oh joy and rapture!
Of course, I prefer to romance little SuSE anyway, so I really don't care about marketing gimmicks (or whatever the purpose is) that Canonical employs.
32 • RE:#19 and to the others. There is no problem. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-02 16:23:01 GMT from United States)
Why do people try to create a problem when one does not exist. The only way a person would get confused over any distro is if they don't know how to read. And guess what? Most people can read. All of these other flipping distros offer different cd's also. Unless you order the oversized dvd some of them offer. Give it a rest and talk about something worth talking about.
33 • Flexibility (by Debian user since 2002 on 2009-11-02 16:26:16 GMT from Finland)
I wouldn't call Debian extremely flexible as far as there is no easy way to install Debian packages of different different ages side by side. Trying to install Sid packages in Debian stable would cause havoc. As a Debian Stable user I have really missed new packages sometimes. If I have understood correctly, Conary based distros (Foresight and rpath) are better in this repesct as well as the nix based one (NixOS) as they allow installing old and new versions of packages side by side without conflicts.
34 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 16:36:11 GMT from United States)
I did a clean install of Ubuntu 9.10 over the weekend. I don't know what the hype was about, but 9.10 doesn't seem like an upgrade over 9.04 at all. In fact, it boots slower than 9.04 on the same hardware. For now, I'm sticking with 9.04. It runs good, boots fast, and is very stable. When Lucid Lynx is released, I'll give that a try, otherwise it's time to do a little distro-shopping.
Don't get me wrong I like Ubuntu. I've used it since it's initial release, and I've kept coming back to it whenever I tried a different distro (the only one that gave Ubuntu a run for its money on my machine was PCLinuxOS). I've tried the derivatives (KUbuntu, XUbuntu, Mint), but I keep coming back to vanilla Ubuntu. Perhaps I'm ready to move on to something a little more advanced? I've read good things about Arch, but never bothered to install it. Can anyone point out a good resource on installing and configuring Arch?
35 • Why wait for LXDE in Ubuntu? (by Harold on 2009-11-02 16:43:50 GMT from United States)
I have been using LXDE (successfully I might add) with PCLinuxOS under the hood for over a month now. If one would like to test LXDE on their PC hardware, it can be done right now without having to wait for LUbuntu. It performs quite acceptable on my PIII 800mz with 384mb RAM and 10gb HD. Give it a try and see who's ahead of the curve! Go get 'em Texstar!
36 • #34 (by megadriver on 2009-11-02 17:01:47 GMT from Spain)
The Arch Wiki in general:
http://wiki.archlinux.org
The Beginners' Guide in particular:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners'_Guide
Also available in "dead tree" format:
https://www.createspace.com/3398103
Be sure to also read about "The Arch Way":
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
Happy "arching"!
37 • Ubuntu/Xubuntu (by DLCBurggraaff on 2009-11-02 17:05:08 GMT from Netherlands)
VNC (vnc4server) never worked ok on Ubuntu - 8.04 and 8.10 had problems with the gnome settings manager, 9.04 and 9.10 do not report the correct screensize so e.g. the title and status bars of nautilus are cut off.
VNC (vnc4server) works ok on Xubuntu. However, thunar "lies" about broken symlinks and mousepad does not indicate the current cursor position (am I on pos 80 already?). So I run Xubuntu with nautilus and gedit.
By the way, I have problems with burning isos to CD/DVD-RWs from Ubuntu and Xubuntu 9.10. Brasero, xfburn and k3b all produce very slow CDs (may retries?) or even read errors. With 9.04 things were ok.
Is there someone having the same symptoms?
38 • RE :RE: 21 (by Béranger on 2009-11-02 14:02:37 GMT from Romania) (by Fernbap on 2009-11-02 17:16:23 GMT from Portugal)
I found a little gem called medit (colored syntax, line numbers, tabbed documents, etc.), trying it atm, like it alot.
It's on the debian repositories.
39 • Arch and Xubuntu (by Utnnyan on 2009-11-02 17:25:20 GMT from United States)
I really love the way some people fight over a 15% memory diff between Ubuntu and Xubuntu. For the most part I can't tell much of a difference between the two in most of my systems (is there a difference? sure. Is it significant? nope).
If you want a lite Xubuntu then DIY with a minimal install and add the required parts. NOW compare that to Xubuntu and see the difference.
As for Arch I really really like this distro and want to use it. But it's not noob friendly (and yes the Arch way is not about being noob friendly) and while the documentation is good it is geared for those with knowledge of Linux. Every time I've tried to convert I've run into multiple issues that took days to resolve. After a week I give up then try something like Mint and have all my issues resolved in less then a day. Which do you think the average person would use as a base?
40 • Re: 38, mEdit (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 17:26:47 GMT from France)
> I found a little gem called medit ...
... looks very interesting, indeed. I'll try it out later tonight when I get get a chance to use this PC again. It's a pain to share a PC with someone else ...
41 • Re: #39, Arch and Ubuntu (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-02 17:38:35 GMT from France)
> But it's not noob friendly (and yes the Arch way is not about being noob friendly) ...
... where about in the hierarchy of noob unfriendliness or watered-down (or is it watered-up?) distributions would I find Arch? Is it like this ...
Mint -> Ubuntu -> Debian -> Arch -> Gentoo -> LFS
PS: I posted #40 but forgot to include my nick of the week
42 • Kubuntu a Bug itself (by MacLone on 2009-11-02 17:40:37 GMT from Mexico)
Sorry for the "criticism" but every Kubuntu version i test is very buggy. This time with Kubunbtu 9.10 there was no repo list. (of course there was one) but nor package kit nor Apt could "see" it.
43 • Pyrun.exe - no disk error (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 17:59:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
When trying to install *buntu 'wubi' style i.e. inside a Windows folder
The annoying error message in the subject title often comes up
I take no credit for this because I usually give up after three presses on anything like that, but if you keep pressing continue, it does submit after a while - 9 or 10 quick presses in my case.
44 • @33 (by Reuben on 2009-11-02 18:01:49 GMT from United States)
Of course you can't mix packages from different versions of debian. Binaries are compiled against a certain version of the library. This is why many distros have backports. A source based distro gets away from this problem by compiling the program on the users computer. Of course you frequently encounter problems with reverse depencies on gentoo, requiring a ton of programs to be recompiled. You can also compile programs on a binary distro, however debian and ubuntu will require you to pull the headers files first with "apt-get build-dep".
@32: Not many distros will make you go to another site just to see a mention of the other window managers that are avalible.
As for arch: Why no 32-bit packages for amd64? Where is my wine and virtualbox?
45 • openSuse 11.2 (by Mith on 2009-11-02 18:02:41 GMT from United States)
I tried the latest RC of openSuse KDE and was impressed by its function and polish. I am more used to Gnome but thought I would give KDE a try since the screenshots looked so nice:
http://news.opensuse.org/2009/10/27/sneak-peeks-at-opensuse-11-2-kde-4-3-experience-with-lubos-lunak/
It's actually more responsive than my previous experiences with KDE but some differences will take getting used to. Now, if openoffice writer would only allow me to hide the top/bottom margins in print layout, might I then be able to ditch windows permanently. It seems so simple, yet too irritating to put up with.
Please support this issue so it will be fixed.
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=103163
46 • Ubuntu vs Gentoo performance by chris smart in linuxmag (by Sankaran on 2009-11-02 18:04:22 GMT from India)
http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7574/
47 • Ubuntu derivative names (by Xtyn on 2009-11-02 18:20:32 GMT from Romania)
At first I didn't understand why did they call Ubuntu with KDE - Kubuntu, with XFCE - Xubuntu and so on. After I thought about it it seems like a good idea. Canonical is trying hard to make a standard distro. If they would call Ubuntu all of the derivatives, the standard would fall.
In a talk with someone who doesn't know Linux, I could say: try Ubuntu. From there it's very easy.
Let's imagine I tell him to try Mandriva. If he would look for Mandriva, he would find a lot of choices: KDE, GNOME, free. I should have to explain what's a desktop environment and what are the differences between them, what's the "free" variant. I tried that and, man, was he lost.
Ubuntu has become a standard, a kind of poster child for Linux, not Kubuntu, not Xubuntu, not Edubuntu etc.
48 • #44 (by megadriver on 2009-11-02 18:20:48 GMT from Spain)
You can find several 32-bit wine PKGBUILDs In the AUR:
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?O=0&K=bin32-wine&do_Search=Go
And here's VirtualBox (PKGBUILD for both 32 and 64 bits):
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?O=0&K=virtualbox_bin&do_Search=Go
Yes, there are native 64-bit versions of VirtualBox:
http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
One of the things I miss the most from Arch, is the AUR. If it's not in the AUR, it doesn't exist.
49 • # 34 easy way to get arch (by Surfed on 2009-11-02 18:36:47 GMT from Canada)
An easy way to get arch set up is Chakra Linux. Chakra is Arch + KDEMOD + GUI Installer + GUI Pkgmanager + LiveCD
50 • Very disappointed (by Timmi on 2009-11-02 18:49:00 GMT from Canada)
As a user of Mint-Ubuntu, I was eagerly awaiting the release of 9.10, based on the latest debian that implements better laptop management and integrates webcam support into the kernel.
Here are my experiences (from a Mint (MintUbuntu) user standpoint):
* the repositories are limited, not as complete as for Mint
* Wireless NIC doesn't get detected and configured automatically (I mean, how hard can that be to implement for beginner users?)
* Webcams don't work well, if at all
NOT ONLY IS MINT WHAT LINUX SHOULD BE, BUT IT FINISHES UBUNTU'S JOB!
However, just like Ubuntu, it doesn't have any good webcam support (and still shipping 9.04 as it always lags a bit after the Ubuntu releases). Hence, my eagerness t try to new Ubuntu... with hopes that it may have become more novice-friendly.
How can you EVER expect Linux to go mainstream, beyond 4% of all users, if you keep on making it for geeks only? If developers would wake up, it would have been 40% by now!
51 • @ 33 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-02 19:05:03 GMT from United States)
44 almost addressed your question, it is possible to install packages from testing and sid into stable without backports, "man apt_preferences": note it is a delicate process and will not be successful with all programs, usually because of gnu's horrible C library. This is not suggested for a production system where it makes more sense to backport the programs you need.
52 • Re: #50 "Ubuntu isn’t getting any better" (by jack on 2009-11-02 20:11:50 GMT from Canada)
That is the title in the following webpage:
http://www.endolith.com/wordpress/2009/06/24/ubuntu-isnt-getting-any-better/
this lists the percentage of people who have install problems with versions of Ubuntu from Feisty to Jaunty.
About 33% have problems that they have not been able to resolve. The percentage remains about the same for each version.
Interesting. Definitely supports the view that one should wait a while (how long?) before upgrading or doing a fresh install
53 • Flexibility (by Debian user since 2002 on 2009-11-02 20:15:03 GMT from Finland)
@51, 44
I intended to point out that there exist sofware management solutions (eg. Conary, Nix and ZeroInstall) that probably solve the problem in a superior way compared to the apt method. (Actually ZeroInstall is available in Debian and many other distros, but the packages need to be converted to ZeroInstall feeds first). I think the strong points of Conary and many other of the more innovative software managers heve never been well exposed here in Distrowatch.
54 • @50 (by Archetype on 2009-11-02 20:18:23 GMT from United States)
You are absolutely correct, but you must realize that the overwhelming majority of people who develop GNU/Linux distros do not want it to become mainstream. In fact, they don't care.
You are correct again; Ubuntu does NOT come close to Mint inasmuch as an out of the box experience is concerned. Ubuntu is, like every other "newbie" distro (besides Mint) a 'half-done', beta-at-best quality piece of software.
And what does it take to produce Mint in the first place? A distro based on a distro, based on another distro. Another laughable disappointment.
There will never be a 'GNU/Linux distro version 1.0'. Never.
It will never be finished nor completely usable as a competitive desktop because IT IS UNDER CONSTANT DEVELOPMENT by a bunch of people who don't care (enough) about releasing a stable and usable system for the mainstream.
Using it as a desktop system will always be full of huge sacrifices and compromises.
Of course, these are all non-issues to those who choose to use GNU/Linux as a hobby or from an enthusiast/admin perspective.
Round and round we go.
55 • No subject (by capricornus on 2009-11-02 20:19:44 GMT from Belgium)
Clem is going to use xsplash and Grub2rc in Mint8. It will be MintWaite or MintW8 for me. He should have chosen the safe way, and that is not Grub2rc. He should have chosen Grub1 till version 2 was problem-free. But fortunately, Mint7 delivers the complete and stable OS every Win7-owner already dreams of.
56 • Barry and The Ranters (sounds like a 60's r & r band) (by x on 2009-11-02 20:42:10 GMT from United States)
It appears that this individual is just trying to get attention and waste others' resources and time. His initial question/remark was responded to in a clear manner. Everything after that was pretty much childish drivel. This and worse situations are a problem on virtually every public forum. A tool that is a valuable means of communication between developers, maintainers, users and other interested parties are becoming more of a problem than a help.
This type of behavior encourages the requirement to register prior to rights to post comments are given. It also requires the assignment of a moderator, who among other things must weed out these counter-productive characters. This is a waste of valuable talent that must be diverted away from the main purpose. How many hours of time were spent reading and responding to these postings, that could have been spent on more important issues? It is not only demoralizing, but time consuming to have to deal with these people.
If you do not like something about a project and have no solution to offer make your statement, if you must, once and drop the issue. If you offer a solution and you receive no response or it is rejected, drop it. Then find a project that has what you are looking for or produce it yourself. The problem with these people is the fact that they are unable to properly configure, customize, debug, program or write documentation. They only know how to rant about irrelevant issues.
There was some discussion here at Distrowatch some time back about requiring registration prior to posting. Thankfully, Ladislav kept it open and unencumbered for all. But after reading, what I consider, an excessive number of attention getting comments without any substance or value, I can understand why the idea may be reconsidered from time to time.
I hope Barry continues with his work, maybe someone that is unable to contribute to the project in other ways could screen out the drivel and pass on only the pertinent comments for response.
57 • Angry letters (by Jesse on 2009-11-02 20:43:04 GMT from Canada)
After reading the piece about Puppy's maintainer, I wonder what causes the issue. I've worked on a number of open source projects (including a Linux distribution) and I don't recall ever getting hate email/comments from people. Some people have complained (usually politely) and some have raised concerns about licenses (usually politely) but I don't think I've ever been on the receiving end of attacks like Puppy's maintainer has.
It makes me wonder if there's something about the project (or maintainer) that triggers people or if there's a particular type of personality that's drawn to use Puppy that angers easily. Or maybe I've just had smaller followings.... With some projects or people you can obviously see something that sparks anger, but nothing about Puppy stands out in my mind that would upset anyone.
58 • @21 - in addition to medit, try geany (by evilgnome on 2009-11-02 20:54:07 GMT from United States)
I'm actually about to try medit myself, but have been pretty pleased with geany as a light and fast text/code editor. http://www.geany.org/
-
as for base distros, +1 for arch, my favorite. I wonder if one day I'll be an enlisy user, though.
59 • Horrible new Ubuntu release (by Raphael on 2009-11-02 21:15:19 GMT from Switzerland)
I was very happy to see that there is a new Ubuntu version and just wanted to install it on my three years old Dell Inspiron laptop (at the moment there is a Debian stable and unstable installation running on this laptop, both systems runs very well and stable). But my enjoyment didn’t last long: I tried to install Ubuntu three times from the live CD but Ubuntu crashed always before I could load the installer or shortly after. It cannot be a burn failure because I checked the disk twice. I also tried to install the new Kubuntu but I had exactly the same problem. I made my first Linux experiences with Ubuntu over three years ago and also had some Ubuntu installations running on the mentioned Dell lapop that worked without any problems. It’s a pity to see that Ubuntu is getting worse and worse from version to version (I also had big X11 problems with Ubuntu 9.04). This version now beats every bad record and my experience with it (that lasted only half an hour) unfortunately was really a pain in the ass. It’s really questionable to see that Ubuntu 9.10 is far from usable and extremely more unstable that Debian unstable …
60 • criteria for best base distro - Arch vs Debian (by zsurnz on 2009-11-02 21:28:29 GMT from France)
Which are the criteria for a best base distro ? For me it should (1) be easy to extent, and (2) provide sane defaults to minimize configuration work.
To be easy to extend, it is nice to have many packages available in repos, but even better to have a nice way to make one's own packages. In this respect, Arch is really excellent, and Pardus also seems good.
Lack of sane defaults is the only drawback of Arch in my opinion, rather than a lack of user-friendlyness as suggested by #24. It is quite easy to get it to work, but for me it was quite difficult to provide it with a conssitent look-and-feel. That's probably a problem with any base distribution and I understand the need for Ubuntu to provide a separate CD for every environnement as the configuration of a package may depend on the other packages available on the system.
Finally, lack of sane defaults is not a serious drawback as Arch needs be installed only once on a given machine. It seems to me much more difficult to make .deb packages for Debian than Arch packages, and for this reson I find Arch much better than Debian as a base.
However, I wonder why Debian is so much more popular. I guess it must have some advantages over Arch. Would its package system over that Arch Build System and pacman/makepkg ? I would be really interested if somebody could open my eyes over some limitations of Arch wrt more mainstream distros.
61 • #59 (by Xtyn on 2009-11-02 21:34:44 GMT from Romania)
If it does not work on your laptop, it doesn't mean it doesn't work on our PC's. As far as I've read, people are happy with this release.
Fedora 10 would not boot on my laptop. Did that mean it was horrible? No, of course not. I should have to use it first, to say if I like it or not.
62 • @44 (by Juaez on 2009-11-02 21:42:08 GMT from United States)
Yes, you CAN have a mixed Debian system. You just have to know what you're doing.
63 • #60 (by Xtyn on 2009-11-02 21:46:49 GMT from Romania)
#60 However, I wonder why Debian is so much more popular. I guess it must have some advantages over Arch.
Of course Debian has advantages over Arch. Arch is a tiny project in comparison with Debian. Debian's repositories are huge, you can find almost anything in there. Arch's repos are smaller. In Debian you have the choice: stable, testing, unstable. In Arch the only choice is unstable.
I didn't understand the part about making .deb's. If you want something you can't find in the repos, you can compile it.
From my point of view, Arch is retarded. Sorry about igniting the flame but that's my opinion. Not everyone has the patience (or time) to configure everything by hand. That's where Debian comes into play, for people who have better things to do than configuring everything.
64 • Re: 13 Linux Mint Rocks (by Simon on 2009-11-02 21:59:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'd have to agree that Linux Mint is a great desktop distro and I have it installed on my Lenovo laptop and one of my work boxes. However it is Linux Mint 5 I stick with, not 7.
Why? I can't get Skype to work fully on my laptop with Linux Mint 6 or 7 but on 5 its fine, web-cam and all. On my work-box I can't get Kompozer to work with Linux Mint 6 or 7 - only 5.
Regarding Pidgen Instant Messenger, I wasn't even aware that web-cam was an option - is it? I've had web-cam working with Kopote no problem - but its a KDE application. I'm sure you can get it working on a Gnome desktop - although it's sure to come with a lot of KDE baggage.
Sometimes newer versions of kernals take more than they give. How many times have you done an upgrade only to find that something doesn't work as well as it used to. Too many times for me. But I still can't help upgrading - it's compulsive.
Another great edition of Distrowatch weekly. Thanks to all the contributers. Your work is appreciated.
65 • @63 (by zsurnz on 2009-11-02 22:18:14 GMT from France)
Thanks #63 for your answers. I had forget about it but the existence of a "stable" repo may be an advantage. For several months I happened to have some problems with X, that disappeared suddenly after a recent update. During the months when the problems occurred, I tried Crunchbang on another partition of my laptop but had the same problems. As I read over internet that some version of intel drivers were broken I concluded that the problem was not distro specific. Would Debian "stable" be actually more stable than Ubuntu/Crunchbang repos ?
As for the complexity in making packages, it's no problem at home of course. But for work, most software I use is not packaged. Moreover, as it is typically developed by physicists rather than computer scientists, it is difficult to compile, at least to first time. Once it is packaged, it can be easily installed anywhere and new versions may be compiled with only few changes in the specification file.
In fact, I already considered leaving Arch for Fedora or Debian but I don't want to do the shift before finding some time to learn how to make rpm or deb packages.
66 • Ubiquity is broken in all 9.10 versions (by Boo on 2009-11-02 22:24:01 GMT from Australia)
Anyone tried installing any 9.10 variant on a system with multiple disks and a fake-RAID controller that is not being used?
It does not work. Even removing the dmraid package and respinning the ISO will not let you install but you can at least see your disks and partitions.
I have heard the removing dmraid from 9.10 alternalte works though.
Oh yes the Beta installer works, so is it time for a regression?
I want to know when Ubuntu are fixing Ubiquity and releasing 9.10.1.
67 • Webcams on Linux (@50 @54 and especially @64!) (by Timmi on 2009-11-02 22:25:34 GMT from Canada)
As a follow up to my comment @50, and our friend who added to that @54,
let me say that if I could find a version of Mint that runs webcams, I'll search no longer.
(although I would have some regrets that it's not as compact as Puppy (Puppy which has a brilliant developer and roadmap, but unfortunately at this time still has bugs in WPA on wifi)
I will give Mint 5 a try then. It is their LTS (long term support release), which is another plus. I'll see if Kopete might work with webcam... I did have it working in Mint 6 & 7 despite it being designed for KDE.
Also, as an FYI, Pidgin (who came up with that retarded name anyways? LOL), Emesene, and aMSN all have webcam support now. (I just haven't had any luck getting it to work with Mint-ubuntu 6 (8.x) or 7 (9.04).
If anyone could recommen any other nice distributions, that have good webcam suport (aside from Fedora, which has excellent support, but is sluggish), and are beginner-friendly, please IM me on MSN at TigerTamer (à) Live period cA (NOT .com), I'd very much appreciate it.
68 • KDE vs Gnome? I think not. (by TheGreatGonzo on 2009-11-02 22:26:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Not sure where the comment in the main article (Kubuntu section) regarding KDE being in competition with GNOME came from but two things sping to mind.
The first is that neither desktop environments are competing with the other. They are two simular pieces of software that have their own approach but with are trying to collabarate more and more.
The second is (said tounge in cheek) KDE came first!
69 • Kubuntu is the best variant (by Mark on 2009-11-02 22:41:52 GMT from Australia)
Kubuntu is the best variant because:
- It is fast. Blazingly fast.
- It has the best applications ... Amarok, K3B, digikam, okular, gwenview, dolphin, kwrite etc. All are better than their GNOME equivalents.
- It has the best base libraries ... Phonon, Solid, Plasma, kwin ... all fresh new re-designs and uncluttered with legacy dependencies.
- It has the best development paradigm ... C++ and Qt Creator beat GTK+ hands down.
- Where a GTK+ application is the best choice ... KDE caters for it well. Firefox and OpenOffice integrate very well into the Kubuntu 9.10 desktop, and GTK+ applications use the same theme, fonts and styles as Qt-based ones do.
- It uses a common desktop interface, so for example GTK+ utilities can effectively appear in the system tray if they need to.
- It has the best momentum and dynamics ... Qt 4.6 will be out soon and it will bring further performance improvements.
- It doesn't use Mono. Not a requirement at all.
- It has flexibility and choice. E.g. if you don't like the default menu, then just remove it from the panel and add the Lancelot menu plasmoid in its place. If you prefer the tri-menu similar to GNOME (i.e. a separate menu for applications, places and documents) then just choose that option for Lancelot.
It is all good. Where is the downside?
70 • @48 (by Reuben on 2009-11-02 23:03:11 GMT from United States)
I figured that it was in an AUR somewhere. I haven't used gentoo in a while, but I always liked that everything was in a single repository. However I like arch. It's the simplicity of slackware combined with an actually decent package manager.
Also, I'm not sure why I should care about other people using linux. For me, linux provides both an easy to maintain system and some excitment. But I have nothing to gain by having my neighboor using it
71 • No subject (by Joe on 2009-11-02 23:38:12 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu 9.04 was stable and reliable. Unfortunately, 9.10 is the buggiest Ubuntu release I’ve ever used. From the crash icon that keeps going off, to the splash screen that pops text when it shouldn’t, etc…But those are minor concerns. The major concern is that 9.10 has compatability issues with ATI graphics using Intel processors. Many people are reporting on the Buntu forums that the live CD hangs as a result. Furthermore, I tested Kubuntu 9.10 and it suffers the same issue regarding Live CD hangs because of the ATI graphics problem.
I love Ubuntu, but this particular release shouldn’t have gone final until it was ready. It makes Linux look bad as a result.
72 • Let's all praise Ubuntu (and it's unnecessary multitude of distros) (by sickofubuntu on 2009-11-03 00:16:04 GMT from United States)
This website has become little more than one big ad for ubuntu. With all the praise you sling and time and space wasted doing it I imagine they're paying you a LOT of money.
73 • RE: 72 Let's all praise Ubuntu (by ladislav on 2009-11-03 00:40:32 GMT from Taiwan)
Ah, I forgot, I have to include the obligatory disclaimer every other week, so here it goes:
Canonical/Ubuntu, its partners and affiliates do not and have never sponsored DistroWatch in any way.
So if you imagine that they are paying us a LOT of money, that's all it is - just an imagination.
74 • Too many choices.. linux's ONLY real problem (by brad on 2009-11-03 00:52:03 GMT from United States)
There are just too many distros, too many egos, too many "philosophies" too many apps for 1 task.. until linux users put their egos, philosophies, and plethora of choices for 1 task ASIDE.. and make a kick-arse distro, that 1. a newb can install, 2. works out of the box, 3. has wireless out of the box 4. has killer apps and NOT 2+ apps that do the same thing, 5.a packages manager to unite them ALL..
until then, Linux will be a niche market, never going above 3% of "desktop users", and for the most part will be a geeks choice.. And if that doesn't happen, and long time linux users that feel they were BORN knowing linux, help the newbs/intermediate users with respect instead of disdain for peoples choices of distro, app choice, desktop choice, package manager choice, distro difficulty choice, and peoples choice of legit questions when they cant figure something out, it will NEVER be the much anticipated YEAR of the LINUX desktop. Until then, CHOICE will be linux's greatest asset, and it's even GREATER weakness.. just my .02 now I'm broke
75 • Puppy comments (by Puppy Fan on 2009-11-03 01:03:25 GMT from United States)
Having optional desktops on the various buntu live CDs may seem like a good choice but I prefer the choices Puppy gives. Specifically Barry has thoughtfully provided versions with an older kernel for those of us with older hardware. The older kernel has the ath_pci module which properly supports my wireless card. The ath5k module does not. Puppy is the one distro I give out to friends. The others tend not to support wireless and WPA as well.
Barry, thanks for your efforts!
76 • @ #74 - Too many choices (by Mark on 2009-11-03 01:13:34 GMT from Australia)
>There are just too many distros, too many egos, too many "philosophies" too many apps for 1 task..
Why is this problem, exactly?
>until linux users put their egos, philosophies, and plethora of choices for 1 task ASIDE.. and make a kick-arse distro, that 1. a newb can install, 2. works out of the box, 3. has wireless out of the box 4. has killer apps and NOT 2+ apps that do the same thing, 5.a packages manager to unite them ALL..
Kubuntu can do all that. No problem at all.
There are several other distributions that can also do it. openSuse, Fedora, Mandriva can all do it easily.
>until then, Linux will be a niche market, never going above 3% of "desktop users", and for the most part will be a geeks choice..
Makes the mistake that the aim of Linux is to dominate the desktop market. (BTW: Linux already dominates the embedded, server, infrastructure and supercomputer markets).
The actual, real aim of Linux and FOSS is to give people a choice.
77 • Ubuntu Needs to be pretty. (by Tre Cool on 2009-11-03 01:16:00 GMT from United States)
Doesn't everyone think Ubuntu Needs a face-lift?
Black and Blue Maybe? or at least something shinny. First impressions are everything to desktop users! i never let the users i switch see the desktop till i "pimp it" you could say. the "Dust" theme is a good start but lets make the active color blue?
78 • Re:Ubuntu Needs to be pretty (#77) (by Amy on 2009-11-03 01:21:40 GMT from United States)
Tre Your Right! Ubuntu looks the same as it did 5 years ago! let's get some cool themes going, no more uglyness !
P.S Barry Don't Quit Puppy Linux Development, Your Awesome!
79 • Re: Barry and Puppy (by Sertse on 2009-11-03 01:25:52 GMT from Australia)
Why all this talk, yea he blogged and sighed about it, but as linked to thread show, had long announced his retirement but had the heart to drag himself out of it to give some stability after 4.2.
And it's not with he's just mopping around either. Development on the Woof build system continues, the blog immediately after shows it's jumping right into it, developing a new distro - "Quirky"
80 • It sinks (by Jimmy on 2009-11-03 02:04:04 GMT from United States)
If U-910 were a submarine, it would be sleeping with the fishes.
I stopped reporting bugs about it, since I think it would duplicate the effort done by better projects which Ubuntu borrows liberally (and implements poorly) from.
81 • Ubuntu made me go back to Windows (by glen on 2009-11-03 02:09:13 GMT from Canada)
I tried Ubuntu about 16months ago when a neighbours teenage son gave me a copy.
Hated it. It was ugly like an old WIndows version, lifeless and even the fonts and feel felt weird. I was still impressed by how far the desktop had come and thought it was usable but I wasnt thrilled by it and it stayed on as a dual boot but it was rarely used.
A few months later, the kid asked me how I like it and I explained it. He came back the following day with a copy of Kubuntu 8.10.
Since then, we've been a full time Linux family with Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and Kubuntu on all our machines.
Xubuntu runs on my trusty Thinkpad from a decade ago and it runs beautifully.
Choice is primordial because I like my desktop the way I LIKE IT (bad eyes which means BIG, very, very big everything) and I think the choice of desktops is much, much more important the distros. I try all the top KDE distros and honestly, I find the differences trivial.
If I had to use Gnome, I could. But I wouldnt want to.
I want and enjoy KDE much more.
Long live choice and having things the way YOU like them.
82 • Mandriva (by Sanjay on 2009-11-03 02:37:11 GMT from India)
Mandriva 2010 is going to be Mandriva's best release, its has everything for a PC to read a review of Mandriva jus Visit
http://distrolove.blogspot.com/search/label/Mandriva
83 • size (by Anonymous on 2009-11-03 03:21:59 GMT from United States)
I did, and here's the memory usage after discarding the buffers/cache:
-- Ubuntu 164040 k
-- Xubuntu 138700 k
--Debian Lenny with WindowMaker and Iceweasle running 98232k
Oh and does anyone use Midnight Commander's Mcedit?
84 • #61 (by silent on 2009-11-03 03:23:02 GMT from Hungary)
Yes, great release in general. There are still Xorg freezes with Intel video though.
85 • Ubuntu variants (by mick on 2009-11-03 05:46:41 GMT from Canada)
One word (or two words; depending on your ilk): Crunchbang...
86 • Barry Kauler (by EdlinUser on 2009-11-03 07:05:22 GMT from United States)
I love Puppy, it's been my primary distro for 3 years. I use old hardware. I build working system from throw-aways, put Puppy on them and give them away.
I read part of that long stupid thread and saw that about Barry being attacked on IRC and email. Perhaps an administrator to shield him; I know, $$. Maybe a volunteer, your chance to free Barry's time to do what he does best.
I hope that Barry will still be improving Puppy for years to come.
87 • #61 (by Raphael on 2009-11-03 07:56:26 GMT from Switzerland)
The fact is that older Ubuntu releases _worked_ very well on the same mainstream laptop. Taking this into account the new release really is a pain in the ass.
88 • Re: #46 • Ubuntu vs Gentoo performance by chris smart in linuxmag (by DG on 2009-11-03 08:12:02 GMT from Netherlands)
Re: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7574/
Lunar Linux is a source-based rolling distro which allows the user to set a global optimisation level if s/he really knows what s/he's doing, but users are recommended not to set it too high because screaming performance of some applications comes at the cost of others not working as expected...
89 • new Ubuntu (by despot on 2009-11-03 08:52:12 GMT from Norway)
What is the point of complaining about how bad Ubuntu 9.10 is in regard to this and that don't work, it used to work before etc. We have a great distro for you, it is called a LTS release, Ubuntu 8.04, this is the one to use for you, new LTS release next year 10.04. Still a good year and a half desktop support left on Hardy Heron though.
90 • The place where whiners come (by Zac on 2009-11-03 10:23:02 GMT from Australia)
openSUSE does work my generic PC. Do I need to say it's the worst release ever? Do I need to say the releases are getting worse? Do I need to say this is full of bugs don't try it? No, it's not. But that is what most of these comments consist of. Just bashing, whining and complaining. I hope that these people are not representative of Linux users because this will the main reason why Linux fails to take hold more than it has. Hmm, the loud vocal minority. Linux's future worst enemy.
I heard the same whining about Ubuntu 6.10 when it came out (along with other distros as well) but me and for many this release was 100% absolutely stable, hassle-free and reliable for 20 months. The other main distros failed for me, but I didn't crap on them. Why? Thousands of people put in many hours of their own time and they deserve respect from their own crowd.
BTW: Ubuntu 9.10 works fine for me and I like it alot while the lastest beta of openSUSE 11.2 fails. That is MY experience but it's different for others.
91 • TL; DR (by megadriver on 2009-11-03 11:06:18 GMT from Spain)
Disclaimer: I don't want to start a fight or something, and I apologize in advance if someone is offended by this. I'm just curious.
To all of those claiming for a "newbie-friendly" distro in which everything works "out of the box", in which you don't have to configure (almost) anything manually, I have a question:
¿Do you want to remain a "newbie" forever?
If you don't want to (or don't have the time to) "get your hands dirty" and learn the internals of Linux (or at least a bit of them), maybe, just maybe, could it mean that Linux is not for you?
I don't care about the mythical "year of the Linux desktop", about "dominating the market" or about "destroying Microsoft". I chose Linux over Windows or MacOS for two reasons: because it gives me more control over my computer, and because IT'S FUN (¿remember the Distrowatch slogan?).
When I encounter a problem with Linux, I don't see it as a problem, but as a challenge, a chance to learn more. And also lots of fun! Even if I can't solve it in the end, which sometimes happen, I always end up learning something new. Am I weird? Sure, but I'm also sure I'm not alone.
If you don't find fun (or don't have the time) to fiddle with your computer to try to make it do exactly what you want, if you feel frustrated if everything doesn't work "out of the box" and you have to change some options in a GUI, or type some "magic words" in a terminal, or use Google to find answers, if you think of the computer as just a work tool that better not give you any headache...
Maybe you are best served using Windows or MacOSX. Or wait for someone to make the titanic effort of twisting and turning Linux into a thing (I think) it never was supposed to be. There are some projects in that direction (for example Ubuntu and its "offspring" Mint), and I respect their work, and their patience having to deal with many protests and demands when something "breaks". It's their choice to do what they do, after all, 'cause Linux is all about choice. But when I look at them, I don't find them fun anymore (when something "breaks", though, the fun returns! Looks like I am a weirdo, after all...)
If someone manages to make a Linux distro that truly works "out of the box", wins the desktop market and "destroys" Microsoft (and maybe Apple, too, hehe), I won't complain at all (I find much more fun troubleshooting a Linux machine than a Windows one, after all), but I probably won't be using it (maybe dual boot, just to be familiar with it).
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone or started something ugly. I will shut up now, I promise.
92 • Foobuntu (by Andre on 2009-11-03 12:06:08 GMT from Norway)
Agree with #19. All the *buntus are confusing. And 3 different ISOs per "flavor" per platform does not make it any easier. One for desktop and one for server, and even those may turn out to be useless so you have to use the Alternate disc because you want to use softraid or something.
I think the Debian way of handling multiple environments and tasks is way better. I can burn only one single DVD, and I can install any system for any purpose no matter what, rather than downloading and burning the Kubuntu Studio Desktop for one computer and the Sambabuntu Rackmount Remix Alternate for my fileserver.
Surely it can't be too hard to merge, say, Server and Alternate to one single disc? If you left out the live desktop and the Windows binaries you should maybe even be able to fit all three on one single CD. And what about a DVD with all packages necessary to install {U,Ku,Xu}buntu {Desktop,Server} for a given platform, similar to what Debian does?
As for Xubuntu, I recently tried to install a couple of alternatives on an old P2 w/320 MB RAM. Ubuntu (Gnome) was ssslllooowww. But Xubuntu (XFCE) turned out to be even worse, and would hang for a long time before I could even log in. But Debian with LXDE and/or XFCE turned out to be rather snappy.
93 • Ubuntu new release try after a few months (by Ninad Bapat on 2009-11-03 12:17:02 GMT from India)
I am currently using Ubuntu 8.04 and normally try out any ubuntu or other distro release after 1-2 months after release.
This time i could not resist the temptation of trying it out on release and lo and behold I could not go beyond the ubuntu options display page. It gives errors on choosing one of those options. Agreee with comment #59
The iso md5 is fine so there seems to be some problem with the boot settings or the kernel config dont know.
Had other problems with other ubuntu versions prior to 8.04
94 • Medit (by mjjzf on 2009-11-03 13:20:58 GMT from Denmark)
I echo the recommendation for Medit - I love that there is a terminal and the file browser. The syntax coloring is good.
Another powerful program in the GTK2 family is Scite - http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html - very useful.
While it is not a bad idea to have an editor with Xfce, I fail to see the point in an editor without syntax coloring. The feature was mentioned once as something that might be added at some point. As I see it, syntax coloring is the main feature.
95 • U910: I'm schocked! (by mchlbk on 2009-11-03 13:48:19 GMT from Denmark)
On my netbook:
U904 was ok. U910 beta was close to perfect. U910 rc + final crashes and crashes and crashes. And then crasches some more.
Will give Arch + Debian a spin but if they´re too hard to set up I'll go with WinXP in stead.
96 • Re: 72 : No Ladislav - Canonical Astroturfs the heck out of DW (by none on 2009-11-03 13:59:05 GMT from United States)
Ladislav,
DW made Canonical by being a fertile ground for them to astroturf and place "hits" on the hit counter -- a poor excuse for a market share poll. While they don't pay you directly, they were early advertisers when they were growing their market share. So while your disclaimer may be accurate, all must accept the fact that Distrowatch was a key portion of Shuttleworth/Canonical/Ubuntu's business plan early on.
-Anonymous and also "sick of Ubuntu"
97 • About the Xfce editor (by Sertse on 2009-11-03 14:45:24 GMT from Australia)
Mousepad is based from leafpad, originally to provide better printing support at Leafpad lacks, and a few minor gui improvements. Leafpad itself *is meant* be an ultra simple editor with no features about from displaying and changing....text. lol
So it was a design choice. You want something quick and light to edit a character in an config file etc. You're are meant to use something else if you're doing serious stuff with text files.
98 • #91 (by Xtyn on 2009-11-03 15:06:28 GMT from Romania)
Have you ever considered that a lot of experienced Linux users use Ubuntu and other user friendly distros?
Linux is for anyone, not just geeks. You don't have to be an expert in computers and OS's to use Linux. You don't have to know how to build a car to drive it.
What's fun for you may not be fun for me. For me, Arch is a nightmare, for you it's fun. Yes, I have used it, I'm a patient person but my patience has limits.
This guy sais it better than I can: http://www.techiemoe.com/tech/arch200902.htm
I have heard this from many Arch users, that Arch is "how Linux is supposed to be", that it's "the true Linux way". Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux said this:
And when it comes to distributions, ease of installation has actually been one of my main issues - I'm a technical person, but I have a very specific area of interest, and I don't want to fight the rest. So the only distributions I have actively avoided are the ones that are known to be "overly technical" - like the ones that encourage you to compile your own programs etc. Yeah, I can do it, but it kind of defeats the whole point of a distribution for me. So I like the ones that have a name of being easy to use. I've never used plain Debian, for example, but I like Ubuntu.
99 • Phoenix OS (by G. Rasmussen on 2009-11-03 15:22:52 GMT from United States)
In your section on "New distributions added to waiting list" you've listed Phoenix OS, "a beginner-friendly, Kubuntu-based distribution for the desktop.." However in following the provided link, while it does take you to the Phoenix OS web page, the "download" link on that page leads to a dead end with the requested file not found.
If Phoenix OS actually does want to make any kind of splash in the Linux marketplace of ideas they should at the very least assure those who may be at all interested they're serious by providing a working download source for their offering.
100 • KDE-Distribution (by Newbie on 2009-11-03 15:58:44 GMT from Germany)
Which distribution would you recommend for a first kde experience? Kubuntu 9.10 or Mandriva 2010.0?
101 • Karmic and GRUB2 (by Michael Raugh on 2009-11-03 16:01:54 GMT from United States)
Been having some multimedia issues with Arch lately -- largely, I think, because I need to delve more deeply into 32-bit support on the 64-bit system -- so for the fun of it I installed Ubuntu Studio Karmic alongside to give it a whirl.
Ubuntu's installer took it upon itself to replace my perfectly working GRUB with GRUB2 without even asking me first, and then failed to provide menu items for either of the other distros (Jaunty and Arch) on the machine. Forced me to Google may way through a crash course in GRUB2 configuration just to regain the ability to boot into Arch. (Yes, I could have just reinstalled GRUB legacy, but that wouldn't have been able to boot Studio on its ext4 partition.) That was irritating enough that I suspended the experiment there for the time being. If I don't get back to it before OpenSUSE releases then so be it.
Am I the only one who thinks GRUB2 is waaaaaay too complicated for its own good? "No, don't edit grub.conf -- we want you to edit one of these 5 different bash scripts and then run another bash script to *generate* a new grub.conf instead." I guess it adds some flexibility if the scripts work, but the ones in Ubuntu Studio don't work -- the one that's supposed to detect other Linux installations didn't detect Jaunty or Arch despite their being on the same physical drive as Studio, and the one that's supposed to present a menu presented it for zero seconds until I manually modified the script to brute force it into giving me time to choose.
I think I understand why distros are moving to GRUB2 -- so they can boot from an ext4 file system -- but I'm a little dismayed to see beta-grade code in something as critical as the boot loader. It's easy to replace a buggy IM client or web browser with another one, but boot loaders are a lot more difficult to swap out.
-mr
102 • #100 (by RC on 2009-11-03 16:16:09 GMT from United States)
Mandriva. Check out PCLinuxOS and MEPIS as well. In my opinion, those three are far better distros than any of the *buntu based ones. I have yet to have anything based on Ubuntu, including Mint before I stopped using and recommending it, that wasn't buggy. All of them have bugs, but the *buntus have too many and they seem to be getting worse with each release. They are trying to hit a timeline rather than a quality level I am afraid.
103 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-03 16:36:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Rerf #91
Dunno about this being a newbie for ever, frankly who cares?
Xtyn, with whom I don't always agree, came out with good stuff, especially when he quoted LT.
At the end of the day, as we are so fond of saying here in UK, it is only an operating system (kernel, say), with different clothes on (distro). Sometimes the clothes fit perfectly and sometimes they need a little bit of tailoring to get a comfortable fit. And like tailoring not all styles, cut, fashions suit everyone.
And then, in #72, we get silly comments, especially about the Uxx. It would be even sillier for LB to call his site "Distrowatch-but-not-Ubuntu-and-clones"...you know it would.
104 • The Ubuntu haters are out in full force... (by Patrick on 2009-11-03 17:04:05 GMT from United States)
Boy, I am getting sick of them.
Ok, so Ubuntu didn't work for you. It is the worst release ever. Blablabla. Let's put this into perspective: The majority of home users using Linux are probably using Ubuntu. A LOT of people are using it, and it works for MOST of them. Let's say, if 10000 users tried Ubuntu, and in case 1% of those (100) failed because of hardware compatibility, user error, bad CD, whatever. Say 10% of those people feel it is necessary to spew their hate here, that results in 10 people whining here about how horrible Ubuntu is.
Now let's say Slackware or whatever your favorite flavor of Linux is would have the same failure rate. But only 100 users end up trying it. Most of them are highly technical and can fix problems better than the average Ubuntu user. Even disregarding that, with the same failure rate, only 1 person would fail to install it due to hardware compatibility issues, bad CD, whatever. If only 10% of people trying it would feel like complaining (and they probably wouldn't because they would consider it "their" failure instead of Slack's failure), we won't hear a peep about it here. Slackware must be WAY better than Ubuntu, since no one is complaining, right?
The fact is, we DO hear people saying Slackware didn't work for them. If you put that into perspective with the amount of people actually trying either distro, I'd say Ubuntu is doing an awesome job and probably has just as good or better quality than a highly touted stable distro like Slackware.
So whiners, is it really necessary to smear Linux's image to the greater public because, for whatever reason, you can't stand Ubuntu? Remember, the greater public, including decision makers at big companies, perceive Ubuntu as one of the poster child distro's to judge Linux by. If even the "best" distro (in their limited perspective) is that terrible, the rest sure won't be worth the bother. Linux support won't be worth the bother.
Maybe you'll tell me you don't care what the greater public and decision makers at big companies think about Linux. You're wrong. You do care. You will care, next time when you buy a shiny new laptop and its hardware isn't supported under distro X, or the newest Ubuntu, or whatever. Could it be that you're partially responsible for that? You hated Ubuntu so much, you just needed to hack at it, warranted or not. Some clueless manager at hardware company Z had been told to cut his budget and, checking general opinion on Linux, decided to look at user comments about the "best" Linux distro out there. "Good grief, the last release was horrible! So many complaints! If even the best is so bad, why should we even bother supporting this piece of junk?" Ok, Linux driver development is off the budget, no Linux driver for their latest widget.
Then you can moan again. How these horrible hardware companies should be boycotted. How Ubuntu isn't any better than your favorite 1337 distro, because its latest kernel doesn't support the Z widget. Don't you see how this isn't doing any of us any good, no matter what distro you like? We're all running the same kernel, which supports or doesn't support the same hardware. Maybe your favorite distro still supports the Z widget by virtue of its outdated kernel, but that won't last forever.
Perception to the general public IS important, because it determines future hardware support. Whether you are running Arch, Gentoo, Slackware or whatever, and hate the "dumbed down, average Joe Ubuntu", I am convinced that even you do owe Ubuntu. Canonical is Linux'es biggest marketing company, if nothing else. Ubuntu makes clueless managers and decision makers hear about Linux. It makes them decide to budget Linux support for their hardware, so YOU can run YOUR favorite distro on new hardware. So please, stop all the hating and bashing, because you will cause damage to the Linux we ALL love.
105 • Grub2 - Ubuntu 9.10 - Puppy (by Landor on 2009-11-03 17:17:46 GMT from Canada)
Grub 2
A lot of people still forget that the majority of innovation in Linux is driven by the production market. That's a key reason for distributions like Fedora, Ubuntu to make the jump to Grub 2. Server/Enterprise will always take precedent due to the cash flow being there and not anywhere near the desktop. Well, unless that changes in time.
Ubuntu 9.10
I had a botched upgrade which was my fault due to tinkering with the kernel, etc. Luckily I have my partitions set that I lose nothing really and just reinstalled vanilla 9.04 and did the upgrade from a clean install. That left me with the legacy grub and all has been fine since. I haven't done the laptop as of yet since I donated it to my sister who needs a touch pad over a mouse due to severe carpal. That will be today and I'll see how the intel chipset fairs.
Puppy
The comments in the forum, even from some of the more long time users again just cements my belief that the community is rabid in its own way. I noticed negative comments from long time users towards some of Barry's choices. With such a community and outside forces being ignorant as well, I don't blame the man for saying enough is enough. Not at all. I hope he does well with his personal projects.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
106 • Same old things over and over. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-03 17:27:21 GMT from United States)
@91 I'm not a linux noobie but I do have a life and it does not consist of sitting in front of a computer for hours at a time getting a working system. If someone else wants to then that's just fine but I don't and it's good that we have a choice..
@72 & 96. Are you two the same person? I ask because we have two totally useless post. If you don't like the site, stay off it.
@98. Totally agree, very good post.
@101. I agree that Grub2 does need some work. I had to learn how to use it and it's not really that easy. It did pick up my other installs tho. I'm not sure what happen with Ubuntu Studio because I haven't used it.
@103 Good example used in your post.
It's good to have an opinion on a distro or to tell what happened when you try a certain distro but let's be honest about it. If something doesn't work out for you then that is your experience and it may suck for you but maybe not for other people who try it. Distro Bashing is not a good thing so let's not do it. You can't honestly say how it will work on someone else's computer.
107 • Something to lighten the mood. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-03 18:19:39 GMT from United States)
http://www.johndball.com-a.googlepages.com/images-linuxisevil.gif
108 • Call out the waambulance (by Duhnonymous on 2009-11-03 18:45:09 GMT from United States)
Seems like every six months people go on a crusade to save people from Ubuntu because it doesn't work out-of-box on their crappy laptop (which was specifically designed by Microsoft to not work on Linux).
Here's a thought: caveat emptor. How about you buy hardware that isn't married to Microsoft in the first place? Then, maybe you can expect it to work on a non-Microsoft OS.
109 • @104 (by Reuben on 2009-11-03 19:08:05 GMT from United States)
Whoa there. This disscussion here mainly concerns a very nerdy community. I doubt that people you mentioned are reading this thread.
Also keep in mind that bashing whatever is popular has always been popular. Deservedly or not, people will always bash Windows, and whatever has been getting the most airplay on the radio. Ubuntu's popularity only encourages such bashing. But this doesn't mean that issues are non-existant.
110 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-03 19:15:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref #107
There you are, just as EW proved beyond any possible doubt whatsoever, (thanks for the heads up on that one EW) using a Microsoft ad...and you can't get any more accurate than that...GNULinux IS on the increase. QED.
111 • Re. 108 (by Taigong on 2009-11-03 19:26:41 GMT from Canada)
This is not helpful. Why do you get angry about some people can't get Ubuntu work out-of-box? Blaming the hardware is stilly, in my opinion. Actually, almost all PC hardwares are made to be compatible with Microsoft and almost all Linux distros are made to work on PC made for Microsoft OS. Generally, if one Linux distro doesn't work on a particular PC, another one may just work fine. I think, bashing the people who's having problem running Ubuntu, is not what the people who created Ubuntu would like you to do. Because you action will only do harm to Ubuntu. Remember how much damage a once very popular distro community did to themselves by bashing people who pointed out their problems? (I don't want name names)
"Here's a thought: caveat emptor. How about you buy hardware that isn't married to Microsoft in the first place? Then, maybe you can expect it to work on a non-Microsoft OS."
Are you trying to laughing at Linux distros (by saying people will have to "buy hardware that isn't married to Microsoft" to make Linux working or what?
112 • #104 (by RC on 2009-11-03 19:34:29 GMT from United States)
There is a huge difference between bashing a distro and having some honest discussion about its shortcomings and failures.
The same is true about being a fanboi that can't stand something negative being said and someone that is truly impressed with a distro and tries to extoll its virtues and recommend it when opportunity arises.
Every distro has flaws, every distro does something in a way that some of us disagree with....just look at the polirization caused by KDE 4. Som love it...some like it....some don't care for it...and some wouldn't use for any reason because it isn't KDE 3.5.
There needs top be honest discussion of every distro's strong and weak points so that all distro's improve from that feedback. And each of us is going to have distro's that just appeal to us personally. Some are judged on political issues or orther judgement calls. That is why there are so many options, and why it is important that we have the freedom to make our own choices.
I do not agree with bashing at all.....or blind fanboism. What we do need to k eep in mind is that nothing improves without healthy, constructive criticism. That is what we should all be striving to provide here....and it should be welcomed.
113 • RE; 112 Agreed (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-03 19:55:28 GMT from United States)
Very well put RC. If we are all honest about it we could find somebody who could say every distro sucked. Even tho we know better. :)
114 • # 49 Chakra (by bert barten on 2009-11-03 20:27:53 GMT from Netherlands)
Is Chakra also suitable for beginners? What do you think of Kahel OS also a derivate of Arch like Chakra?
115 • Mandriva 2010.1 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-03 20:43:13 GMT from Canada)
Just downloaded the Mandriva One 2010.1 GNOME from one of their ftp severs. (Yes, it's available now!) Burned a live CD and tried on one PC with C2D processer and 2G Ram for 10 min. Worked well. Very smooth start up. All apps functioning well. Will try it on some other machines later today. Too bad, they don't provide the live USB installation utility as their sell it.
116 • #104 and others (by Raphael on 2009-11-03 21:03:07 GMT from Switzerland)
You didn’t mention any names but it seems that you’ve also considered me to be a Ubuntu hater. But I’m not, far from it: A few years ago Ubuntu was my favourite distro and it really run well inter alia on my Dell Inspiron laptop. But unfortunately things changed and got worse so that now I’m even unable to install Ubuntu. But I’m not a Ubuntu hater because of this. I’ve only noticed that the new release is not installable on my mainstream laptop. And as it seems I’m not the only person who has problems with the new Ubuntu version. Anyway this is not a little bug in a nonrelevant package – in fact I’m not able to use the whole Ubuntu system because it crashes shortly after X11 (Gnome) was started.
Because Dell sold [1] the same Inspiron laptop also with Ubuntu on it (unfortunately MS is the only choice in Switzerland) it’s not great to see that this laptop isn’t supported by Ubuntu anymore.
1. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
PS: Like #95 I tried the beta release where this problem doesn’t appear – otherwise I would have reported the bug (althoug I’ve no idea what is causing the breakdown because I can’t check any log files when the live CD is breaking down.
117 • Happy anniversary for the month of November (by Anonymous on 2009-11-03 21:35:20 GMT from Finland)
Happy anniversary for the month of November to the following distributions.
One year:
Zorin OS
4bak
SecurPC
WeakNet Linux
Suriyan Linux
VortexBox
RsLive
Two years:
Pendrive Linux
KarachiOS
OS Desktop
PCFluxboxOS
Three years:
mEDUXa
YaKa
Kids Without
LernTux
URLI OS
Four years:
Movitos USB Linux
Bio-Linux
You have been 'Waiting List" to make sure that your distribution is not a short term project. Keep it up you may be on the waiting list as long as LinVDR (5 1/2 years).
118 • Re: #72 and #96 different people (by none on 2009-11-03 21:37:44 GMT from United States)
I wrote #96. I mean to say in #96 Re: #73 in reply to Ladislav's post, but I screwed up.
119 • #104 (by Taigong on 2009-11-03 21:56:28 GMT from Canada)
You are very funny. You tried to tell us that please don't mention the problems we had so that the managers in the big companies can be fooled to invest in Linux? And that supposed to benefit Linux? Don't cheat yourself. Denial or cover-up can only do harm to Linux.
You worried about smear. In this world, there are a lot more people trying very hard to smear Windows (Macs, Linux fan boys). Guess what, MS is still M$.
You want perspective? Let's see: suppose there are 100000000 people using Windows out there, 0.01% users had problems with it and complained. That's 100000 people complaining. Window must be BAD, that must have killed MS. Did it?
The real challenge for Linux is its own quality, the lack of good support, and the scarcity of even the basic mainstream applications not to mention high-end application. Here is an example, a few months ago, on this site, someone asked if he could scan a document into a searchable pdf file under Linux. A very simple task under Windows. Many many people tried to give his or her opinion. None could provide a real solution. How could we expect the managers of big companies to be fooled to use Linux if such simple tasks could not be accomplished?
120 • #114 Chakra is Arch easy (by Surfed on 2009-11-03 22:07:33 GMT from Canada)
Chakra makes Arch easy, it is mostly newbee friendly, the only downfall so far is that there is no default Partition layout, so you got to know about partitioning and the installer does not detect other os'es for dual boot yet. That said the installer is better than most out there and although still alpha software Chakra performs better than many final released distros. Its KDE implementation is one of the best i have seen but always up to date (it has kde 4.3.3 already)
121 • #120 reply to Taigong (by Verndog on 2009-11-03 22:53:42 GMT from United States)
Why are you here? What's your purpose. Obviously you think Windows is so superior to Linux. Why aren't you visiting some MS site.
Could it be that Windows isn't all it's suppose to be. The very fact that your here on a free software site, trying to tout the virtues of Windows proves that Windows must be missing something.
I'm always amazed at people coming here telling us what wonderful things Windows can do. Are you trying to convince us or yourself!
122 • @116 and 120 (by Patrick on 2009-11-03 23:01:17 GMT from United States)
I must have been unclear or misunderstood.
I have nothing against honest reports and discussion of things that need improvement, and I don't want problems to be hidden or ignored. What I am sick of is people saying things like: "Ubuntu doesn't install on my system, SO it is the worst release ever" or "Previous versions of Ubuntu installed flawlessly on my system and the new one doesn't, SO their quality is going downhill".
In both cases, both parts of the statement may be true and accurate, but drawing such a broad conclusion based on your single case is ridiculous. If it doesn't work for you, report, discuss and move on. But don't act like your case applies to everyone else. Ubuntu probably works just fine for most people.
I totally agree with RC in post 112, very good post. I myself do use Ubuntu, Mint and Sidux, and I'm not against trying others. Whatever the distro, I am most impressed with the Linux ecosystem that gives us such amazing software for free, and I don't want any haters to destroy it. Most managers and decision makers are perfectly capable of Googling so they can find plenty of nonsense hate against Ubuntu if they want to. Haters just don't do anyone any good was the point I was trying to make.
123 • #115 Make Mandriva Live USB (by yochenhsieh on 2009-11-04 00:40:04 GMT from Taiwan)
You can use "Mandriva Seed" utility to make Live USB from Mandriva One ISO files. The utility can be found in the iso directory. Be warned that it will destory all data on the USB key/drive, so backup your data first.
124 • @105 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-11-04 02:44:04 GMT from Canada)
No Fedora release uses Grub 2, including Fedora 12. I don't think it's even been proposed for F13. The enterprise argument is rather _against_ grub 2, really - Red Hat's perspective would be that it has several zillion customer machines all booting happily on grub 1 and, I think, basically zero machines which fail to work but would work wonderfully with grub 2, so there ain't a whole bunch of motivation to move to grub 2 there.
125 • RE:#119,121 (by jack on 2009-11-04 03:14:48 GMT from Canada)
Perhaps this post from The Register will provide a more statistical view:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
126 • @121 (by Taigong on 2009-11-04 03:27:59 GMT from Canada)
Read my comments again. Did I ever say that Windows is superior? This is your conclusion based on the facts I provided. What you are angry about is actually your own conclusion. What I commented were the barriers that Linux need to remove to succeed. I understand it is painful to see one's own shortcomings, but that is exactly what needed to make Linux better.
You wish I go away so that you don't hear these facts. But, they are still there, say it or not. Burying your head in the sand is not going to change that.
You mentioned about free software, and you think the reason people using Linux is for the free software? Think again! Almost all of the relatively good apps on Linux are also available in Windows. Open Office, Firefox, GIMP, Blender etc. In fact, there are more high quality freewares on the Windows platform than on Linux, a lot lot more. The only thing free is the OS itself not the apps. For most people who buy brand name PCs (nowadays, they are as cheap as no-name PCs), the Windows is already pre-installed. So, they don't save any money.
So what will it take to make Linux to be acceptable to the mainstream, It is not free software, not at all. What Linux really need is high quality commercial software, I mean non-free or even very expansive software to be available on Linux, for example AutoCAD, Photoshop, and other professional applications. This is just my thought. I suggest you think about it before jumping.
127 • Re: #125 (by Untitled on 2009-11-04 03:46:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just to clarify that this statistical view quoted in The Register is of a poll taken on the Ubuntu forum. Since people who had no problems installing or upgrading are less likely to visit the forum to complain about things just working, I wouldn't take this very seriously, or at least I will consider this view as having a 100% error margin.
The Register can be very entertaining and even informative, but I think that "article" you've linked to doesn't make them seem very credible (at least not to me).
128 • @126 (by TePe on 2009-11-04 03:58:56 GMT from United States)
Quote from Taigong:
"So what will it take to make Linux to be acceptable to the mainstream, It is not free software, not at all. What Linux really need is high quality commercial software, I mean non-free or even very expansive software to be available on Linux, for example AutoCAD, Photoshop, and other professional applications."
From a business standpoint, the company I work for runs 100% MS Win XP desktops because of that exact reason (Autocad, SolidWorks, Adobe Apps, etc). We do have some Linux boxes in the server room doing LAMP/Firewall/FTP duties, but that's about the extent of our Linux use. If Linux was high enough quality and ran those apps, more businesses would pay to use it. Until it can provide that level of usability, it will stay in the server room in many business applications.
129 • @126 (by Josh Valley on 2009-11-04 04:27:56 GMT from Serbia and Montenegro)
What free OS did you mean? Do you believe that preinstalled Windows is for free? By the way did you pay for your Firefox through PayPal? The safe way is the best way.
Need non-free or even very expansive software for Linux? Write or sponsor them yourself Haigong. Jump to it. Get rich. And professional. Don't stay as an advisor or consultant forever. Become a director, a leader of men. And bloom.
Than you lay down the truth as it is. And make people come to proper conclusions on the facts that you provide.
These public forums are so full of... short of a better word, different people. Maybe some evil people. Twisting your words, denying you respect. Blind for your reasons ignore your authority.
And when i look at coffee beans of the mighty Ubuntu i can see that this is going to change. It Shall Change. Trust me.
130 • Honey or Vinegar? (by D1Knight on 2009-11-04 08:03:33 GMT from United States)
Why hate? Don't be a hater be a participator. You get more with honey than vinegar. To know the truth....out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
I need to study up on GRUB2, hopefully the hard working developers will have a stable version released soon.
Ubuntu IMHO is progressing nicely. Perfect? No, but it is moving forward and improving.
Thank you Unix, Community, RMS, LT, Linux, Debian, Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth, developers, testers, FOSS, all distros and everyone else involved in making and improving a great(est) OS.
Peace.
131 • Re: #50, 82, 100, 115 Mandriva upgrade to 2010 (by friend on 2009-11-04 13:02:08 GMT from Indonesia)
*50 "Interesting. Definitely supports the view that one should wait a while (how long?) before upgrading or doing a fresh install"
====== a ray of light in a very dark place indeed ==========
this is definitely a good point to anchor upon.
*82 - I hope your install continues to roll without problems, we hope to hear more.
*100 The few times I ever checked, I always found Mandriva to be very much more usable, even in the darkest moments of their management blunders.
* 115 I saw the Mandriva upgrade alert this morning, but I have over the past year learned the wisdom of waiting a bit to hear what issues arise. The transition to KDE4 completely destroyed any inclination to immediately upgrade, but I do hope to hear the MDV 2010 upgrade path is free of the kind of debacles which have so sullied this before. I give the Mandriva 2010 upgrade about four weeks to shake out the loose bits to see whether it is ready for my desktop.
To recapitulate:
It is best (unless you are a bleeding edge adapter) to give a new distro about four weeks to establish itself as either a dud, a mule or a winner.
My money (actually paid) is on Mandriva, but since I have sway over a number of diversely-tasked machines I do hope the others continue to evolve well also.
[we use RedHat, OpenSuse as well Centos in our workplace]
Cheers to all, keep on keepin' on
132 • @121 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-04 13:28:58 GMT from United States)
I come here all the time. Most often while using Windows. And not because Windows is sensed by me to be inadequate like your simple minded pop psychology fantasy. I come here because I like Linux, because my computer world would be sadly emptier if Linux did not exist, but it is Linux that is still to some degree inadequate which doesn't mean it isn't great. It is you and other Linux lovers so called (so called because such "lovers" have a chip on their shoulder that makes them hate Windows for stupid reasons; exaggerating it's flaws). I also like Windows as well as Linux but your kind is wrapped in mindless hate that makes you “blind” or “dysfunctional” instead being able to enjoy what both have to offer.
The gentleman from Canada is exactly right.
Think of it this way, Is BSD horrible? No. But in my experience, while I have been encouraged to suspect that the logic and security of BSD is superior to all others, the PRACTICAL reality is that the functionality of it for me personally is way less than that of Linux, and Linux is in the practical sense for me personally less accessible in so many functions than is Windows. And my personal experience is the same as millions of other users. It's not a hate thing of Windows versus Linux, but in the real world, if there had not been a Windows or a Mac there would be no Internet. Just a fact!
133 • #132, Taigong and the Windows gang (by Anonymous on 2009-11-04 14:23:37 GMT from United States)
You missed the point entirely. This IS free software web site NOT Windows.
Neither of the two of you that keep mouthing off about the virtues of Windows realized this. This is NOT a Windows web site. So...
WHY ARE YOU HERE!
Go to a Windows support site and tell how bad Linux, BSD and the rest of the FS community is. You will most likely get no response from intelligent Windows users. It just boggles my mind why your here. You haven't answered that simple statement.
If you love Windows so much, find a nice site that you can post your small minded replies.
134 • Re: 132, Sorry I just can't let this one go. LOL (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-04 15:25:48 GMT from United States)
"but in the real world, if there had not been a Windows or a Mac there would be no Internet. Just a fact!"
LMFAO!!! Oh, dear lord that is one of the biggest laughs I've had in a while. I believe that "Just a fact!" statement must have come from the Get The Facts campaign from MS. Must be a Best Buy employee.
Thanks. LOL
135 • @134 (by Anony Moss on 2009-11-04 15:44:00 GMT from India)
Now, I'm not adding anything, either, so am a candidate for garbage collection by Ladislav.
134, I smiled at that too :) Mark Twain turned another 90 degrees with that in his chamber. That statement is as ridiculous as saying there would be no river if there were no deer or tigers drinking on its banks.
136 • yup (by Nobody Important on 2009-11-04 16:08:05 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu 9.10 is an excellent release.
This DWW comments thread is as uninteresting and nasty as ever. No wonder the Windows trolls think it is funny.
I take my leave.
137 • @133 Taigong and the Windows gang (by Somebody Important on 2009-11-04 16:40:32 GMT from United States)
I only come here to watch you Linux guys bitch slap either others distributions.
138 • RE:127 (by jack on 2009-11-04 16:47:53 GMT from Canada)
You may be right.
But note the following observation from that page:
"... Typically, it's the more technical users overall who install Ubuntu - and early adopters tend to be the most technical of the technical.
If these people are experiencing problems they cannot solve, then the outlook for Ubuntu among a broader, less technical consumer base - especially on prized netbooks against Windows 7 - is not great.
139 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-11-04 16:52:24 GMT from Germany)
I do not see much improvement in Ubuntu since Jaunty. I think Jaunty booted a little bit faster than Intrepid, but Karmic is not much faster than Jaunty, maybe even slower. Overall I am still satisfied with Ubuntu, but I am going to check out some other distros just for fun.
140 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-11-04 17:07:01 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
141 • same same (by Surfed on 2009-11-04 17:55:53 GMT from Canada)
This comes up every 6 months with ubuntu, everytime people cry "worst ever" or "best ever"
Looking at current and past Forum Polls, 9.10 is actually slightly better than other releases but not by much.
Check out this breakdown of the last 4 releases:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t0XWfWgqJpYxCGAZ1G8U-og&output=html
142 • RE.140 Are we so ashamed? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-04 17:58:47 GMT from United States)
Boy look at that! What a hurtful post. LOL. I don't blame you for not giving out your name. I would be ashamed of that one too. :) By the way what does that have to do with Linux or BSD?
In case you are wondering I am making fun of your post.
143 • RE: 141 Very small percentage. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-11-04 18:07:41 GMT from United States)
I looked at the poll and it seems like that is a very small fraction of experiences. Also there is no way to validate those experiences. Of course it's the same with most polls that are taken on anything. There just no way to back them up.
144 • RE: 124 & Ubuntu/Polls and such (by Landor on 2009-11-04 18:34:23 GMT from Canada)
#124
I was attempting to point out (and didn't word it properly I see) that for innovation things are lead by the enterprise and server market. I didn't say that Fedora was using Grub2, nor even spoke of RH (though I can see from my sentence structure how that would be assumed) . You can't deny that Fedora is a test bed for new technologies, especially in the way of the kernel. My emphasis was really on the need for EXT4 being bootable, mainly for the server market. Though again I didn't mention it. I left it out as it being a natural assumption that booting from EXT4 means grub 2. With Canonical forging its way into the server/enterprise market that's just one more asset.
Ubuntu Polls and such...
Any study or poll needs to be controlled to be validated. Also, to be positive of its results you need to be able to duplicate the poll or study from another geographical area/group of people, at the very least, once. Most online polls, forms of measurement for a target audience are as useless as the day is long. The PHR here is a fine example. In my opinion the only thing that the PHR here really tells Ladislav is what is popular enough to keep drawing visitors to his site, though as we know, even that isn't truly accurate (see the obvious manipulation of PCLOS on the PHR not so long ago).
That article that spoke of how Linux is basically doomed in light of W7 is totally absurd. The netbook market dropped off the Linux radar yes (btw, Dell no longer offers Ubuntu on their netbooks in Canada that I could see at their site, after the launch of W7, like HP). What we forget and same as my comment before, is how small the desktop is in comparison to any commercial solutions. Enterprise, Server and I'd even go as far as to mention Embedded. Windows 7 is "not" this new beast that just conquered Linux due to any dissatisfaction of Ubuntu's latest release. It's nice the end user has a desktop solution but it's in no way, or by any margin, the core of Linux use.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
145 • Ubuntu 9.10 Observations (by TheBullDog on 2009-11-04 19:23:11 GMT from United States)
My initial impression of Ubuntu 9.10 is favorable. I was happy to see that some of the audio and video problems that I encountered with 9.04 had been resolved in 9.10 (at least for my hardware -- PIII, 512MB RAM, ATI video, ES1968 audio). And, of course, I'd read the Release Notes prior to working with the distro, so I was aware of some of the known issues ahead of time. I think a few of the early adopters could have avoided a few of the problems they've reported if they'd done the same.
I initially ran the distro from the livecd, and kept getting a "Not available in the current data" error when trying to access applications in the Ubuntu Software Center. I went to Ubuntu's forums and found a recommendation to run "sudo apt-get update" in a terminal. That seemed to do the trick.
Next, I decided to install Ubuntu 9.10 to my hard drive and the install was uneventful. When I logged back in after the install was complete, Update Manager ran automatically and installed several updates that were rolled out after 9.10's initial release. I also didn't encounter any errors when I accessed the Ubuntu Software Center this time. The Software Center doesn't give me as much information about the install as a typical package manager would, but it seemed to work well enough.
So far it's been pretty stable. I think I'll run it for a couple of days to see how it goes; then I'll install, in turn, Kubuntu 9.10, Xubuntu 9.10, etc. to give them an opportunity to impress me as well (or not).
146 • Chillax (by Kaposvari on 2009-11-04 20:25:27 GMT from Netherlands)
Why are you guys always swearing at each other. Chillax a bit. Get a cold beer, and lay back on the couch or something. Geez dudes, what's up with the relaxt ambiance that was earlier throughout this comments.
On-topic: I really enjoyed the Ubuntu review, but I get the feeling GRUB2 and the new xsplash thing isn't totally workin OK. Needs some more polishing, hopefully 10.04 LTS will shed some new light on that. As earlier posted I also 'felt' that Xubuntu was a bit heavier (by meaning: slower responding) during the boot process and also working with it on a productionmachine (e.g. word-processing and imagerendering) that the plain vanilla Ubuntu. Although it uses less memory, perhaps there are some redundant loops in the boot-process which slow things down? I don't know, but hopefully Canonical sqeezes Xubuntu back into the right shape so that it runs fast again. Until then, I'll stick to 8.04.3 LTS =) .
@Linux-bashers in general: We both know that both Linux as Windows (or any other OS) has bugs and flaws, but as I like to quote: "Theory put to purpose, isn't always perfect" - E.Lorenz ... So all those who like to bash, cough and swear at each other's Operating System, that's fine with me, but then again: design your own OS which is as perfect in theory as it is in the real world!
147 • Hardware compatibility in new versions of Linux distros (by Henning Melgaard on 2009-11-04 20:48:11 GMT from Denmark)
It is pretty obvious that for some people the latest version of Ubuntu is working better on thier hardware than the earlier versions did. And for others its the opposite: things that worked in earlier versions have suddenly stopped working with the new version. (This is probably true for other Linux distros).
I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they are moving to never versions of drivers and kernel, in order to make their distribution compatible with the newest hardware.
Quite understandble but they are leaving angry and frustrated users behind, with hardware that is suddenly incompatible.
To avoid this, people developing the different distributions, could do like they have at PcLinuxOs. Give people the possibility to install different versions of hardware drivers, in an easy to use GUI package manager: If you have the latest hardware, install the latest driver. If your hardware is a bit older install an older version of the driver.
148 • why linux (by Anonymous on 2009-11-04 22:51:31 GMT from United States)
I use Linux:
No registration non-sense - it's mostly G.P.L. !
Very stable, Used Debian stable for years; personally for me it never crashes.
It does what I want it to:
Xawtv works
ALsa-player works
Mplayer works
Fire Fox (IceWeasle) works
Printing works
Scanning works
GL video (Nvidia) works
Logical Volume Management works
Software R.A.I.D. works
For all of the above I just use Aptitude with Debian's repository.
I never had to search or download drivers or software from anywhere else.
That's me, how about you?
149 • #148 (by Jack on 2009-11-05 00:35:07 GMT from United States)
I use Ubuntu 99% of the time after retiring from a 100% Windows company. For the other 1%, I use a windows machine for TurboTax. It's easier for me since i already had a second machine than to get into virtual machines. AND I have to use Windows for that d*** Canon Lide80 scanner that doesn't work under Linux. What scanner are you using? Any suggestions on a decent and inexpensive scanner?
150 • why linux reply (by bug on 2009-11-05 00:38:22 GMT from United States)
everything works on my antique computer [and fast]
it's prettier than windows 98 [last version used]
free as in speech
fun as in i like to tinker but don't own a car
151 • Update on 9.10 upgrade for the lappy (by Landor on 2009-11-05 05:21:53 GMT from Canada)
Just a head's up. I did the upgrade on the Lenovo G530 and it was flawless. Intel graphics were not an issue. Did a few updates and all seems well.
That's two machines that were problem free. As I said, my first upgrade on the desktop was faulty due to my own tweaking of 9.04. So if it's any kind of measure, two totally different systems, one a laptop and one a desktop, flawless.
Am I lucky? I don't know. I do hand pick the hardware I use to build my systems of course, but a laptop is bought as is. My son is using Mandriva but intends to install 9.10 this week along side it. If that works out just as well, since his system is different yet again (I chose different hardware for his system), then I really don't know what all the issues are with 9.10. Three perfectly upgraded or installed systems tells me maybe a lot of it is user error.
Shrugs
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
152 • @144 Landor PHR (by VIP on 2009-11-05 08:37:25 GMT from United States)
While the PHR may be an indication of interest in a distribution the obvious manipulation of PCLOS on the PHR not so long ago is a damn lie.
153 • re 148 scanner (by illiterate on 2009-11-05 09:17:23 GMT from Greece)
I am using Canoscan Lide60 successfully in many distros. In Debian to enable scanning as user I must edit additionally /etc/group and add the user in the "scanner" line.
hope that helps.
154 • DWW Another good release. (by D1Knight on 2009-11-05 09:34:35 GMT from United States)
How could I forget!? Thanks for another excellent DWW. I was wondering what had happened to Lubuntu (10.04-next year) thanks.
The info about Mandriva 2010 (looks promising), reminded me to give that distro another try. Peace
155 • Smooth upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic... (by Caraibes on 2009-11-05 10:01:30 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Main box, homemade desktop, AMD64... Used an "alternate" cd, to upgrade, without the need to re-install anything, nor to "re-tweak" my setup... It worked just fine, no issue whatsoever...
So yes, I am still on Grub1, but it's ok, because I really don't care...
So my /home is still in ext3, because I kept it since years..
The rest is in ext4 since Jaunty...
I agree that 9.10 is a bit slower than 9.04... I am wondering if it is Gnome 2.28's fault.. (I might add xubuntu-desktop, just for fun...)
156 • Online Banking (by Kiroton on 2009-11-05 12:57:32 GMT from United States)
Puppy is recommended for online banking:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558597/avoid-windows-online-banking
157 • Xubuntu on really older hardware... (by Caraibes on 2009-11-05 13:26:45 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I installed Xubuntu 9.10 on an IBM PC 300GL, which is a real piece of crap: Celeron (Mendocino) i686 with 305MB of ram... This is kind of a sub-Pentium2 system...
I managed to install from the live-cd... A bit slow, but it worked !
Once in Xubuntu, I installed all the restricted usual suspects etc...
Also Fluxbox & LXDE, to compare... Google Chrome for browsing...
LXDE is impressing me, very light, and very nice, for such a light app !
Overall, I must say that ext4 seems to be a good improvement for older hardware, and Chrome is even better than Opera on older stuff... I know I could have gone for Dillo, But I enjoy a "real" modern browser...
So that's my word for older hardware: Xubuntu+ext4+LXDE+Chrome !
158 • Re: 157 • mini.iso (by Anonymous on 2009-11-05 15:03:03 GMT from United States)
I agree though I opted for the 12MB netinstall and selected the meta-package. Testing in Qemu now, hope all goes well.
159 • @124, @144 Manipulation? (by Henning Melgaard on 2009-11-05 17:29:18 GMT from Denmark)
What? What manipulation are you talking about?
160 • re 159 - PCLOSS manipulation (by anonymous coward on 2009-11-05 20:14:36 GMT from Canada)
Don't quote me on this but I heard that about two years ago the bad guys formed a coalition to make PCLOSS look bad so they bribed Ladislav to bump their HPD. As a result PCLOSS became #1 in distrowatch rankings. Then they bribed Landor to spread the totally unfounded rumor that PCLOSS manipulated the HPD which is obviously a lie. As a result PCLOSS started to look bad. So bad that they slipped in rankings with a speed estimated at 300000 km/s.
The good news is that Mandriva just released a new version. Or maybe give Unity a try?
161 • @160 If you believe that then read this! (by poodles on 2009-11-05 20:45:37 GMT from United States)
I was enjoying an evening walk along the river bank when the Loch Ness Monster suddenly peeked her head above the water to look at the UFO hovering over the lake. The UFO landed in a nearby clearing and low and behold the Big Foot monster exited the space craft with a Netbook computer! I followed Big Foot to a campsite where some Ubuntu power users were jamming with Elvis. They were able to help Big Foot fix his computer. Big Foot waved goodbye, climbed aboard the UFO and disappeared into the night sky. So yes Ubuntu power users do exist! :D
162 • #151, Landor (by Verndog on 2009-11-05 21:46:34 GMT from United States)
I think its partly your selection of hardware that works with Ubuntu/Linux and also partly user error.
I have had relatively no issues with Ubuntu installs.
163 • Slitaz, don't skip it! (by RollMeAway on 2009-11-05 22:28:59 GMT from United States)
If you have never tried Slitaz, you are really in for a surprise.
Even if you have a quad core, 8 GB system check it out.
http://www.slitaz.org/en/doc/handbook/index.html
http://distrowatch.com/slitaz
164 • RE#149 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-05 22:35:00 GMT from United States)
I have used:
an Epson S.C.S.I. Flatbed scanner
165 • How is Unity Linux progressing? (by Observer on 2009-11-05 22:42:37 GMT from Australia)
http://unity-linux.org/
Welcome to Unity Linux
Welcome to Unity-Linux.org. This is the website for Unity Linux, a new distribution of Linux created by numerous developers that got their start in PCLinuxOS. Unity Linux strives to be a solid core for the mklivecd project. We hope that numerous distributions of Linux that want to make use of functions such as mklivecd and remasterme will base their distributions on our small core. Our methodology is to keep it simple, keep it open, keep it free, and keep it updated!
LiveCD, Now Developed by Team Unity Linux
The main tools used by developers for many LiveCD distributions was facing stagnation in 2008. Unity Linux has taken up the torch for bringing this great tool into the 21st century.
What is liveCD?
From berlios.de project page:
The LiveCD project is dedicated to providing you with tools to create your own LiveCD from a currently installed Linux [...]
UnityLinux has PLF repositories
The PLF folks have been very kind to us and have provided Unity with user accounts and server space on their mirrors. This allows us to upload and distribute packages in order to avoid conflict with patenting laws or legal restrictions in various countries.
PLF stands for Penguin Liberation Front and is a packaging project [...]
166 • RE #149 (by Anonymous on 2009-11-05 22:48:57 GMT from United States)
Ooops! typo on #164
I have used:
an Epson S.C.S.I. Flatbed scanner (P.C.I.-S.C.S.I.-card)
a Parallel port scanner
and now a HP-1350 Multi-function (U.S.B.)
all have worked with Debian (no tinkering,but had to load the S.C.S.I. module)
and used the Sane software packages to interact.
The HP uses the HPLIP package, which causes by dependency to use CUPS.
Cups works with HPLIP minimising the work needed to set it all up.
Foomatic is the database used for the printers.
And Oh yes, you must be in the proper system(?) groups to use local
peripherals; this is a sort of security measure.
I think on Debian the command is "adduser user group"
group would be like scanner or video or usb etc.
167 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-11-06 00:10:34 GMT from United States)
Re: 73
[quote]Ah, I forgot, I have to include the obligatory disclaimer every other week, so here it goes:
Canonical/Ubuntu, its partners and affiliates do not and have never sponsored DistroWatch in any way.
So if you imagine that they are paying us a LOT of money, that's all it is - just an imagination.[/quote]
For anyone that believes that praise spewed by this site for a mediocre distro that readily self destructs after recommended updates is given without reward or financial gain, well, I'd like to sell you some oceanfront property in Arizona I recently acquired.
168 • @124 (by gnome_fan on 2009-11-06 01:10:45 GMT from United States)
@124
Ubuntu switched to grub2 because upstream is no longer supporting grub legacy (aka grub .9x).
"GRUB Legacy is not maintained any longer. If you want more features, please use GRUB 2."
http://grub.enbug.org/
And, BTW, you failed to mention that Fedora forked grub:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Grub2
Thanks for your efforts in developing fedora!
169 • @130 (by gnome_fan on 2009-11-06 01:23:32 GMT from United States)
"I need to study up on GRUB2, hopefully the hard working developers will have a stable version released soon."
Grub 1 (aka grub 0.9x) never had a "stable" release and is no longer being developed. The 12th release of Grub2, Grub 1.97, was released on 10-25-09.
170 • @168 grub2 (by RollMeAway on 2009-11-06 02:12:45 GMT from United States)
From your link in #168 (Fedora):
//----------
Contingency Plan
Keep using GRUB legacy
Documentation
* The only docs right now are at the upstream site, but they're slim at best.
//----------
Grub-legacy works, has for years, call it what you will.
Grub2 is flaky at best, and is in a state of flux.
Which version do you want on your HD?
The main 'feature' I want is to NOT trash my partition tables.
171 • @169 gnome fan (by D1Knight on 2009-11-06 04:35:41 GMT from United States)
Yeah, I believe I should have been a little more clear, about my GRUB2 comment. I was referring to what was listed by Canonical/Ubuntu repositories "Grub2 1.97beta4". I do not know if this is distro specific?
Interesting, so GRUB (1) legacy (0.9x) was a continual beta!? Since I am new to Linux I was not aware of the history of GRUB 1, to me GRUB 1 in all functionality appeared stable (I did not dig to deep into it).
Anyway, I thank you kindly for the clarification, I am always willing to learn. Peace.
172 • GRUB 2 & Legacy Info (by D1Knight on 2009-11-06 04:50:16 GMT from United States)
For anyone interested.P
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-legacy.en.html
http://grub.enbug.org/
173 • @170 (by gnome_fan on 2009-11-06 05:39:39 GMT from United States)
"Grub2 is flaky at best,
please provide specific examples of grub2's "flakiness". if you do not this is FUD.
"[Grub2]... and is in a state of flux."
its been in development since 2005 and is the only maintained grub. which one do you think the developers want you to use?
174 • @ 167 (by Untitled on 2009-11-06 07:29:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Quote: "For anyone that believes that praise spewed by this site for a mediocre distro that readily self destructs after recommended updates is given without reward or financial gain, well, I'd like to sell you some oceanfront property in Arizona I recently acquired."
Sorry, I don't want any property in Arizona, but since I sometimes praise the same mediocre distribution and I know I'm not being I'm not receiving any financial reward for it. It will be hardly worth paying as so few people ask me about my operating system and I only answer when asked.
I guess therefore that i am therefore mediocre myself. It's not that I didn't try to be better -- I was actually once embarrassed using the mediocre distribution and several time I have tried to move away to different, more respectable distributions, but the truth kept hitting me on the face: I am mediocre.
Either that, or I always found out there was something else that made me go back... Maybe there were things I liked and missed about it... Things that didn't work elsewhere... I could tell you some of those reasons but I won't since I'm not being paid.
175 • Another cool distrowatch weekly is here - loved it (by Justin on 2009-11-06 08:25:40 GMT from India)
Loved all the contents featured this time in the weekly, especially "Feature: An overview of Ubuntu 9.10 variants" Great going.
176 • @168 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-11-06 08:25:55 GMT from Canada)
The feature page says 'essentially a fork'. What that really means is that GRUB legacy is, as you correctly state, unmaintained upstream, so it has basically been being maintained by the Fedora grub maintainers (with contributions from other distros' grub maintainers) for quite a while now. Many distros use Fedora's grub as essentially upstream grub. Hence, 'essentially a fork'.
I wasn't really trying to position either choice as better, I was just responding to the rather bizarre suggestion that RH would push Fedora towards adopting Grub 2, which is certainly not the case.
177 • RE: 167 (by ladislav on 2009-11-06 12:00:50 GMT from Taiwan)
Absolutely! Canonical spends most of its time contacting Linux web sites and offering them "a lot of cash" in exchange for "spewing praise" for their products. If that's what you believe then I too have property to sell you - a nice mountain chalet on Tuvalu.
Maybe we could trade it for your beach house in Arizona?
178 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-06 12:19:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref advertising...so what if Canonical pays folk to advertise stuff? This may come as a complete surprise to some but this is an example of business at work (geddit?)
Do try not to confuse the term "free" with something to do with altruism. It may have escaped some folk but Distrowatch IS a commercial site and does have a liberal sprinkling of adverts. In fact advertising is what helps to keep the site running...extraordinary but true...or did you imagine LB has immensely deep pockets and is just itching to throw away his hard earned willynilly?
In fact one might have glimpsed the odd bit of copy mentioning Red Hat or Magic...you see where we are going on this? So the nonsense about plugging distros is wearing a bit thin so please don't go on about it anymore...we know already and most of us don't give an arse.
179 • #74: 3% of the market? Really? (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-11-06 16:05:12 GMT from United States)
I love those who claim Linux has only 3% or 4% of the desktop market and will never have more. Really? Have you even bothered to check recent marketshare numbers:
According to ABI Research Linux share of the netbook market has risen to 32% this year. See: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst?source=rss_opsys
That's 11 million Linux netbooks. It's also consistent with Dell's claim earlier this year that one third of their netbook sales are Linux. It also translates to almost 8% of the total number of laptop, netnook, and notebooks sold this year combined.
In the real world Linux marketshare overall is about 10% now. Steve Ballmer of Microsoft conceded as much on a recent pie graph he used in one talk about Microsoft's marketshare, which his graph placed at right around 80% now. While that's still huge it's also a huge decline from where Windows was three years ago.
Too many choices? Tell me, have you stopped buying breakfast cereal because the supermarket has a whole aisle full of choices? Is the choice between Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Ford, etc... too much for you when you go to buy a car? Is that really a problem? I don't think so.
180 • Ubuntu 9.10 from an accused hater (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-11-06 16:08:55 GMT from United States)
I've been accused on being an Ubuntu hater in these forums because I dared complain about all the problems with my hardware and the problems in network manager. Every release since Feisty has had show stopping bugs for me. 8.04 LTS (Hardy) has been good since the first maintenance release but the original gold code had issues too.
Now along comes Karmic and I had low expectations. Guess what? Everything has worked brilliantly for me. No crashed, no problems, no networking issues, all hardware detected and configured correctly, performance much improved, GRUB2 working flawlessly, other distros correctly detected and configured, etc... It's all good. I've found this to be truly an excellent release.
181 • #180 and parallel universe (by Mr Spock on 2009-11-06 16:13:02 GMT from United States)
Where's the REAL Caitln Martin and who stole her mind :)
182 • Super choice (by Verndog on 2009-11-06 16:28:18 GMT from United States)
"Too many choices? Tell me, have you stopped buying breakfast cereal because the supermarket has a whole aisle full of choices? Is the choice between Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Ford, etc... too much for you when you go to buy a car? Is that really a problem? I don't think so."
LOL! Great point. Choice is good. Those that are confused by the multitude of Linux distributions, can you imagine what their face looks like in a super market!
183 • #181 LOL (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-11-06 16:38:36 GMT from United States)
Too funny. I've gotten a lot of heat when I've given my unvarnished opinions about some releases, including Ubuntu Jaunty and Mandriva 2009.1. My first impression of the new Mandriva is also positive -- another big improvement. The issues from 2009.1 sem to all be solved.
What people need to realize is that I don't have an agenda when it comes to distros and I really don't play favorites. If it's good I'll say so. If it reminds me of something I scoop out of my ferrets' litter pans I'll say that as well.
184 • #183 Mandriva (by Verndog on 2009-11-06 17:13:02 GMT from United States)
I was wondering about Mandriva. Someone referenced a positive review that I read. I use to like that distro. The one before this one didn't work well with my system.
I'll have to try it on for size. Thanks for the reminder.
Wonder why I don't see a lot of comments here regarding Mandriva. Silent types I suppose.
185 • mandriva (by Anony Moss on 2009-11-06 18:06:23 GMT from India)
@184, this release is worth a try- mandy never worked well for me before, but this one does. Graphics run a tad slow, but crucial things work properly. It is a polished release. Maye the issue is with older ATI drivers, and Xorg overriding them with free ones. Still to explore this issue, though.
186 • Mandriva (by corneliu on 2009-11-06 18:20:48 GMT from Canada)
I wonder what will be the excuse this time for not having a Mandriva review next week. Is it going to be the storm?
I have a feeling next week we'll see some Ubuntu stuff that has not been covered before at distrowatch.com
187 • DWW donation 10/2009 (by suggestion for DWW donation 10 on 2009-11-06 19:25:53 GMT from Germany)
Where ist the DWW-Donation October 2009?
How about Parted Magic?
http://partedmagic.com/donations.html
188 • Mandriva 2010 (by glyj on 2009-11-06 19:32:32 GMT from France)
Some feelings about the last mandriva:
http://vwbusguy.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/quick-review-mandriva-2010-impressive/
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Software/10351.html
regards,
glyj
189 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-06 21:04:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good gravy CM! A distro based on ferret faeces...I had absolutely no idea whatsoever ferrets preferred GNULinux stuff to MS OS. In fact I had absolutely no idea they were computer literate...amazing the stuff one learns on DW. You'd think their claws would hit more that one key at a time. Mind you I don't suppose MS gets much of a look in in your household
Presume it's called Mustelix? Oops, sorry ferret fanciers, that's the one for skunks
190 • RE: Mandriva review, donation (by ladislav on 2009-11-06 23:06:46 GMT from Taiwan)
RE 186: Jesse is working on a Mandriva review, so if all goes well, we should have one for your on Monday.
RE 187: Sorry, I only made the donation after this week's issue was published - it went to OpenSSH. You'll hear more about it in the next issue of DWW. I put Parted Magic on my list of future donations.
191 • Donation: Mandriva (by Sertse on 2009-11-06 23:21:48 GMT from Australia)
Mandriva allows you to donate now, though a community fund.
http://blog.mandriva.com/2009/10/16/102-taking-part-in-mandriva-linux/
Or directly: http://www2.mandriva.com/community/fund/
192 • Mandriva Upgrade Experience (by TheBullDog on 2009-11-06 23:43:19 GMT from United States)
I was running Mandriva 2009.1 yesterday when a pop-up notified me that an upgrade to 2010 was available. So, I decided to take the plunge and try the upgrade on my laptop. At the same time, I started downloading the 2010 PowerPack DVD via torrent on a desktop so I'd have the DVD available -- just in case.
I lost internet access about half way through the upgrade and couldn't reconnect. I initially tried to release and reestablish the IP connections -- didn't work. Then, I reconfigured my wired and wireless connections, but no joy. Did something corrupt tcp/ip? Groaning, I though I might have to start over with a clean install (which would actually be easier than wasting too much time troubleshooting). Before trying a fresh install, I decided I'd give it one more shot. So, I reset my modem, restarted the laptop, redetected the hardware, reconfigured the ethernet connections, and (are you on the edges of your seats yet?) -- reconnected to the internet. Success! Don't know exactly what happened, but it's working now, so I'm a happy camper. Another pop-up notified me the upgrade to 2010 was available and I took the plunge for the second time. It was all smooth sailing from that point on and I'm now happily running 2010.
So far, I like it. It looks and feels polished and everything works. Thankfully, I didn't experience any of the audio or video issues that I initially had with 2009.1. PulseAudio even works great.
Actually, I do have one outstanding issue which involves a routine that is supposed to add a restricted repository for PowerPack users. I understand it's an open issue. But, it's not a show stopper so it's something I can live with for now.
After a pleasant experience with Ubuntu 9.10 earlier this week, I was tempted to switch from Mandriva to Ubuntu 9.10. However, after successfully completing the upgrade to Mandriva 2010 and having had time to take it for a test drive, I've decided against that. Instead, I'll just run both. ;-)
193 • Mandriva review (by corneliu on 2009-11-07 00:38:46 GMT from Canada)
Thanks, Ladislav. Is it too much to ask for a FreeBSD 8.0 review when it comes out? I might be wrong but I feel like it's been a long time since you've put BSD stuff on the front page.
194 • Mandriva review. (by Antony on 2009-11-07 01:00:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
One of the Mandriva 2010 reviews listed here on DW by Techie-Moe:
This does not deserve to be classed as a review. BTW I am not a Mandriva user. It's just that these so-called 'reviews' really annoy me - and no doubt many others!
How can that legitimately, by any stretch of the imagination, constitute a review?
Nnnngggggg!!!
195 • No subject (by Verndog on 2009-11-07 04:01:56 GMT from United States)
Nice to see some Mandriva comments here.
I also would like to see PartedMagic support. that's the only mini distro I use.
Also would like to here from the BSD gang. I enjoyed my short installing of PC-BSD. It was my first experience of using kde4. Probalbly not the best distro form KDE4 but I was impressed with BSD. Knowing that Apple uses BSD under the hood, although highly customized, BSD intrigues me.
196 • FYI: Debian maintainers for Iceweasel/Icedove are the “Ubuntu Mozilla Team" (by Observer on 2009-11-07 05:29:40 GMT from Australia)
Mozilla Apps - Firefox / Iceweasel
[...]
The Continuing Issue
The Debian maintainers for both Iceweasel and Icedove are the “Ubuntu Mozilla Team”. I note that for the last few releases, packages for Ubu have appeared very quickly – yet packages for Debian have taken weeks (and more often months) to appear. Basing everything on their timetable IMHO is not a good reflection on Mepis. Releases of these apps have to happen quickly.
[...]
http://mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22308
197 • from mandriva 2008 to ubuntu back finally to mandriva (by paul Blackie on 2009-11-07 06:47:50 GMT from Ireland)
never thought id actually say but mandriva have outdone them selves here , poss their best release since 2008.1 spring , thought i would never move away from ubuntu , used 9.04 , 9.10 thought it would near impossible have a distro as well finished as 9.10 "bit buggy as one one would expect at start " but with the kde 4.3.2 mandriva has made me a happy camper great release,move over ubuntu/kubuntu its mandriva's time to shine again
198 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-07 09:31:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Do my eyes deceive me?
MS involved with Ubuntu 8.04 to dig them out of a hole...?
http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerability_management/security/attacks/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=221600127
199 • ref: #185 (by Anony Moss on 2009-11-07 11:18:05 GMT from India)
As I pointed out earlier in post #185, the somewhat sluggish display (in particular, with kwin enabled, it's jumpy) in Mandriva 2010 is due to open drivers being used. My ATI X300 is no longer supported by AMD/ATI. Moreover, the latest Xorg versions do not offer older 9.3 ATI Catalyst proprietary drivers. Yeah, I know I'm months late to this party!
More info here from AMD page-
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/linux/Legacy/Pages/radeon_linux.aspx?type=2.4.2&product=2.4.2.3.4&lang=English
Looks like open drivers are all we surprised 'legacy' ATI card owners have recourse to. Considering these used to be popular display cards, can someone knowledgeable kindly update on how the development of free drivers for these legacy cards is going?
As an aside, many IBM/ Lenovo Thinkpads used X300 and other ATI cards. See here for how Thinkpad T-series users are heavy users of linux.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=645208
200 • In previous post... (by Anony Moss on 2009-11-07 11:26:01 GMT from India)
In my prev comment- "Moreover, the latest Xorg versions do not offer older 9.3 ATI Catalyst proprietary drivers."
I think I did not say this right, since Xorg offers open and not proprietary drivers. In any case, from what I've been reading either the newer Xorg (1.6+), or the newer kernels, do not play well with the 9.3 ATI Catalyst proprietary driver.
Hopefully, someone with more information shall offer corrections/ clarifications on the above remark.
201 • LOL @ MINT (by SO BEN on 2009-11-07 13:53:28 GMT from United States)
well, i guess mint does something right, cause ppl r talking about it.
I just dont get it.
WOW, a link that says "Web Browser" or something similar.
Is that there to make my life easer? @ this point I think everyone knows what firefox is for.....
WOW, a bunch of codec, I still need to d/l some codec to watch movies off bittorrent.
Like in windows, I use VLC and then I dont have any codec issues.
I cant seem to navigate the menu by instinct.
No Sir, I did not like it.
202 • Austrumi (by Cisco on 2009-11-07 14:21:37 GMT from United States)
#183
Then quit bashing Puppy. I wouldn't use Mandriva or Vector because I don't care for their "for profit" business model.
On a different subject:
Austrumi just keeps getting better!
203 • for-profit bullshit (by corneliu on 2009-11-07 15:35:39 GMT from Canada)
Dear Cisco,
Do you know that when you buy a car or a computer or anything, the company that sold the product makes a profit on you? Why do you buy stuff? And why would you buy other things but you wouldn't buy, say, Mandriva?
Mandriva is free, so it's not so much for profit, in fact Mandriva did not make a profit in years, they are loosing money. It's not Mandriva's profit, it's YOUR profit.
The only profit for Mandriva is not having users like you.
Cheers,
Corneliu
204 • distro across many machine types (by Joy on 2009-11-07 15:46:30 GMT from United States)
There are now 6 laptops and 16 PCs here and we've been trying to get one distro to work on all with productivity in mind mainly.
We have not succeeded as yet but have hope on Vectorlinux and Mint. VL has many versions with different burdens on resources, a big plus.
Mint seems a bit more intuitive across the laptops and their varying networking cards and hardware. Plus, people here seem to love the look and feel of Mint.
Down to two distros for so many machines is a biggie for us! The older computers obviously love the "lite" versions of these two fine distributions. We're very happy for the robust nature of VL and Mint.
205 • @179 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-11-07 18:15:07 GMT from Canada)
"Too many choices? Tell me, have you stopped buying breakfast cereal because the supermarket has a whole aisle full of choices?"
Interestingly, some companies have found that excessive choice _does_ stop people buying stuff; essentially they're overwhelmed with the options, don't know how to pick one, so don't buy anything. Some firms have intentionally reduced the size of their product ranges and seen sales gone up as a result. There's a whole area of research dedicated to it...
206 • #204 (by Cisco on 2009-11-07 22:49:20 GMT from United States)
Give Puppy a try. You can add .sfs files for many applications (Open Office) and then "unload" them when you don't need them. Puppy is the only distro for older machines (if you want to use them in the office). You will also enjoy the friendly forums and all the helpful, happy, people there.
Ignore #203
207 • No subject (by forest on 2009-11-08 00:20:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Cisco...re Puppy in the office. Presume you meant "home" office? I would hazard a guess that any company IT dept would be loath to sanction use of Puppy if it were to be used online, owing to the password/security/security update scenario issues.
We have read "all" the arguments, pros and cons, about Puppy but my surmise would be that IT folk would not be impressed with its security arrangements.
Obviously at home you do want you want...at your own risk of course.
I have tried a few versions of Puppy and been quite happy to use them. I am not wholly convinced it is proof against dodgy characters bashing away at the BIOS for example, but then what is(?), which is now found to be exploitable (see a few weeks back in the computing press or google) but then i change distros only a little less often than i change my keks so any probs are easily solved by reinstalling "a/any" distro.
FWIW I have P4.30 on a stick and use it for watching commercial DVDs (I have not yet got round to sorting out the libdvdcss (or later iteration). It works perfectly satis for what I want so I have no complaints on that score. So please no hate mail...I use Puppy as a tool for my use and don't give an arse what anyone else thinks.
208 • should have left well enough alone (by stuckinoregon AKA "STURGEON" on 2009-11-08 03:51:15 GMT from United States)
Had Karmic set up on my main machine and all was working well, but thought I'd give Mandriva 2010 a shot. All appeared to be going well, but my 1440x900 monitor wasn't recognized properly (not a big surprise really.) Ran XFdrake from init 3 and got the settings all tweaked, but the resolution still displayed wrong. Tried to manually create xorg.conf using Xorg -configure. Seemed to go okay but got an error about a vnc module mismatch when trying to start X. Blew the old xorg.conf away and manually recreated it. No error this time, but when I rebooted the wrong resolution again displayed. When I went in to check the settings, it appeared that XFdrake had again overwritten my custom config. Back to Karmic. At least I can get my resolution set up easily enough there and know it will stay. I hope Debian hurries up and implements ext4 so I can get back where I belong.
209 • #202: I didn't raise the subject: you did (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-11-08 08:10:35 GMT from United States)
"183
Then quit bashing Puppy."
I never, ever raise the subject of Puppy Linux. I just respond when people badger me about it. If you don't want me to talk about Puppy don't address a post to me about that as a subject.
My "bashing" Puppy was saying it didn't work on my hardware. For that I received threats and intimidation. Their forum still has plenty of hateful posts about me. You want me to say nice things about Puppy? Get the hatred removed from the forum and get me an apology and maybe I'll think about it. Otherwise Landor's description of the community as "rabid" still seems 100% appropriate to me.
Oh, and yeah, their security, or lack thereof, is horrendous.
VectorLinux has never made a profit AFAIK. They have tried to raise money to cover their costs. Mandriva is not profitable either. I wish they would be. That way I'd be sure the distro will survive into the future. Personally, I prefer a distro with significant corporate or government backing. It assures stability.
210 • "Puppy" and others ("Damn Small," etc...) (by Joy on 2009-11-08 13:04:46 GMT from United States)
We need security at our facility and Puppy did not cut it, along with many others, even one "mainstream" distro (won't name it because little "wars" seem to get started here easily enough, am naming the two "little" distros because the issue of their shortcomings is in the thread already) as tested by our campus geek.
The two we settled on are in our good graces for a few simple reasons: user friendly for newbies (about 75% students) and as said before, "robust," substantial, great update ease and stability.
Vectorlinux is based on Slackware and is thus quite fast to the eye on our machines (tweaked of course for each machine cpu and graphics types). Mint is similar with just a bit more tugging on the resources but is loved by all who use it.
Puppy seemed like a good idea for a bit, but the CD was immediately tossed by our geek and we moved on. Don't know anything about the forums and fans there of that distro.
211 • FANtastic (by Bruce Ice on 2009-11-08 14:51:55 GMT from United States)
Sports FANS, Linux FANS, movie star, super FANS all have one thing in common; their all FANATICS! It has very little to do with sports, people or OS's.
I remember pclos and their hateful forum . Never again pclos! And I was enjoyed that distro. Unless and until the mods get a hold on the spitful comments, any distro that has such behavior will lose.
That's one of the main reasons I stayed with Ubuntu. The mods control the crowd instead of the other way around.
Puppy FANS sounds just like all the other FANATICS...sad indeed.
212 • re 208 (by erf on 2009-11-08 15:02:19 GMT from United States)
Do you have an ati or perhaps nvidia card? I installed Manriva one, and also had weird resolution issues with my ati graphics based laptop, that I didn't have with other distros. The solution was to go into the proprietary driver gui (catalyst) and set/save the resolution there. Other than that issue with my Dell Studio 1555, and another with my card reader that was fixed right after an update, this is by far the best distro I've found for my laptop. Everything worked out of the box (card reader, but after a couple days it did...). Sound even worked (required fiddling on every other distro), proprietary graphics automatically installed, webcam, wireless, etc.
213 • @211 • FANtastic (by Anonymous on 2009-11-08 19:26:50 GMT from United States)
And not everyone who joins a forum no matter where it be is a desirable and productive member of said community.
214 • @212 (by stuckinoregon on 2009-11-08 22:28:56 GMT from United States)
Dead on. Yep it is an older NVIDIA card. Uses the 173 module in *buntu. I may give it another shot as it deserves that at least. Just hoped that it would get it on the first shot, but as I pointed out in the first post, I wasn't completely surprised that it didn't. Thanks for that recommendation.
215 • Mandriva One 2010.0 (by D1Knight on 2009-11-08 22:36:04 GMT from United States)
Finally, got to test out Mandriva One 2010.0 I have to agree with some of the other positive comments about this release. Nice, very nice. The video, audio, wireless, even compiz worked "out-of-the-box". Job well done Mandriva! I have nothing bad/negative to say about this release. I highly recommend it.
216 • This & That (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-08 23:08:59 GMT from France)
Ultilex 5.0 is out ...
http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/#about
The Ultilex ISO boots into a selection menu with several up to date distros ...
Slax version 6.1.2
Puppy Linux version 4.3.1
Tiny Core version 2.4.1
System Rescue CD version 1.3.1
Parted Magic version 4.5
boot.kernel.org (BKO)
... very interesting and useful, too. Last week I used the previous Ultilex version (4.0) to recover an MBR that I had accidentally killed (embarrassing, I know). Version 4 also contained some additional stuff like a Windows password recovery tool, bootable DOS etc. I'm not sure if this is still part of the new version as I haven't tried it out, yet.
On another issue ... earlier today I ran the "Shields Up" service ports test on my Ubuntu PC and was a bit surprised to see that it 'failed' the test. Although the first 1024 ports (Windows service ports) were correctly reported as being closed (or blocked) Shields Up complained about the fact that Ubuntu responded to the port scan, announcing that the ports were closed. Apparently it
217 • This & That (part 2) (by Inca Roads on 2009-11-08 23:14:08 GMT from France)
Sorry, I pressed the wrong key.
Apparently it is much better if a PC stays quiet in such a case. I'm not sure how relevant this is. But I think it would be better if a system didn't respond to a port scan at all. Is Ubuntu alone in this or is this sort of behavior standard in Linux?
218 • re 214 (by erf on 2009-11-09 00:03:20 GMT from United States)
I forget what the nvidia driver config gui looks like, and my nvidia card in my desktop takes the newer driver (might be different), there might be an option somewhere to save to xorg.conf in there somewhere. Hope that fixes the problem..., if not, you're not out much I guess though.... Might be a bug too.
Number of Comments: 218
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
| | |
| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Archives |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
| • Issue 1044 (2023-11-06): Porteus 5.01, disabling IPv6, applications unique to a Linux distro, Linux merges bcachefs, OpenELA makes source packages available |
| • Issue 1043 (2023-10-30): Murena Two with privacy switches, where old files go when packages are updated, UBports on Volla phones, Mint testing Cinnamon on Wayland, Peppermint releases ARM build |
| • Issue 1042 (2023-10-23): Ubuntu Cinnamon compared with Linux Mint, extending battery life on Linux, Debian resumes /usr merge, Canonical publishes fixed install media |
| • Issue 1041 (2023-10-16): FydeOS 17.0, Dr.Parted 23.09, changing UIDs, Fedora partners with Slimbook, GNOME phasing out X11 sessions, Ubuntu revokes 23.10 install media |
| • Issue 1040 (2023-10-09): CROWZ 5.0, changing the location of default directories, Linux Mint updates its Edge edition, Murena crowdfunding new privacy phone, Debian publishes new install media |
| • Issue 1039 (2023-10-02): Zenwalk Current, finding the duration of media files, Peppermint OS tries out new edition, COSMIC gains new features, Canonical reports on security incident in Snap store |
| • Issue 1038 (2023-09-25): Mageia 9, trouble-shooting launchers, running desktop Linux in the cloud, New documentation for Nix, Linux phasing out ReiserFS, GNU celebrates 40 years |
| • Issue 1037 (2023-09-18): Bodhi Linux 7.0.0, finding specific distros and unified package managemnt, Zevenet replaced by two new forks, openSUSE introduces Slowroll branch, Fedora considering dropping Plasma X11 session |
| • Issue 1036 (2023-09-11): SDesk 2023.08.12, hiding command line passwords, openSUSE shares contributor survery results, Ubuntu plans seamless disk encryption, GNOME 45 to break extension compatibility |
| • Issue 1035 (2023-09-04): Debian GNU/Hurd 2023, PCLinuxOS 2023.07, do home users need a firewall, AlmaLinux introduces new repositories, Rocky Linux commits to RHEL compatibility, NetBSD machine runs unattended for nine years, Armbian runs wallpaper contest |
| • Issue 1034 (2023-08-28): Void 20230628, types of memory usage, FreeBSD receives port of Linux NVIDIA driver, Fedora plans improved theme handling for Qt applications, Canonical's plans for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1033 (2023-08-21): MiniOS 20230606, system user accounts, how Red Hat clones are moving forward, Haiku improves WINE performance, Debian turns 30 |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
|
| Random Distribution | 
DRBL Live
DRBL (Diskless Remote Boot in Linux) is server software to boot and operate remote desktop clients. The DRBL software allows client machines to run as stateless, thin-client style computers which are managed by the DRBL server. DRBL Live is a Debian-based, live disc distribution of the DRBL server software which can be run from a USB drive or CD/DVD. It includes a desktop environment to assist users in configuring the server.
Status: Dormant
|
| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
|
|
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
0x969CD4E778C7b6549A2B00e34114e0168c86A542 
