| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 311, 13 July 2009
Welcome to the 28th issue of DistroWatch Weekly for 2009!
In the news this week, Slackware finally adopts ARMedslack as the
official port for the project, while Ubuntu founder Shuttleworth talks
about Karmic Koala, the release scheduled for October this year. We also
link to an interview with Jono Bacon, the project's Community Manager. Our
feature this week takes a nostalgic look back at some great Linux
distributions that failed to survive. Elsewhere in the free software world, Google has announced their own
Linux based operating system for netbooks and the BSD Magazine survives
some tough times to continue printing. Have a great Monday and the rest of the week!
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
|Feature Story (by Caitlyn Martin)
Gone But Not Forgotten: Five Great Linux Distributions That Did Not Survive
If you looked at DistroWatch for a typical day five or six years ago you'd see a
lot of familiar Linux distributions with announcements. You also would likely
see some names that would be unfamiliar if you are relatively new to Linux.
Currently the DistroWatch database contains 278
distributions and 36 more that are listed as
dormant. Of these
314 distributions and countless others that never were listed on DistroWatch at
all there are many which are probably best forgotten. There are others which
were promising but for one reason or another were abandoned. A smaller number
were truly exceptional but still failed to survive. This week I decided to wax
nostalgic and look at five that seemed special to me at one time or
another. Obviously this list is based on my personal experience. If
you've been around Linux for a long time you might have a list of your own.
1. Caldera OpenLinux
Caldera OpenLinux (originally Caldera Network Desktop) was launched in 1994 by
former Novell employees after the company decided to jettison their Corsair
desktop project. Version 1.0 was released the following year. By the late 1990s
Caldera was considered one of the premier Linux distributions. The following is
from an obituary for the distro
Ladislav wrote for LWN.net in 2003: "Four years ago, Caldera
produced one of the best Linux distributions of all times, gained a respectable
market share and established vast international presence. [...] Caldera
OpenLinux 2.3 [released] in August 1999 [...] made a substantial impact on the
Linux market by introducing Lizard. Caldera's Lizard was the first graphical
installer ever deployed by a Linux distribution. The OpenLinux 2.3 and especially
OpenLinux eDesktop 2.4 releases were well received by Linux fans."
Caldera OpenLinux also included COAS, one of the first and, at the time,
undoubtedly the best integrated graphical configuration and administration tool.
OpenLinux also had a polished KDE desktop at a time when many popular
distributions still had a lot of rough edges. The WikiPedia article on the distro
makes clear how important Caldera OpenLinux was to the development of the current
Linux desktop: "OpenLinux was not a Microsoft killer, but it
showed the Linux community what would be required to create a mainstream desktop
OS out of the Linux kernel. In many ways the last 10 years of desktop progress has
been to successfully implement what Caldera was attempting to do with the tools
they had available. [...] They had a powerful low bug (by Linux standards)
distribution that worked well on a wide range of hardware."
Caldera OpenLinux was the third distribution I tried after
Red Hat and Slackware. It was as
powerful as the others but remarkably easy to use and easy to teach to Linux
newcomers. When I first started doing Linux based freelance work in 1999 my
distribution of choice was Caldera OpenLinux. It was that good.
While OpenLinux was succeeding in terms of popularity in the Linux community it
was failing miserably as a business. A number of different business models
attempted to bring revenue to Caldera, none of which proved successful. In 2001
Caldera announced it was moving to per-seat licensing for the distribution. While
the basic desktop version of OpenLinux 3.1 remained freely downloadable for
non-commercial use the new license still drew very harsh criticism. Richard
Stallman's take on it was: "Licensing per seat perverts the
GNU/Linux system into something that respects your freedom as much as
Caldera OpenLinux 3.1.1, released 30 January 2002
(full image size: 203kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Most of you who have been around Linux for a while probably know what happened
after that. Caldera acquired DR-DOS from Novell and sued Microsoft, eventually
collecting a huge settlement. The proceeds were used, in part, to buy SCO (then
a successful UNIX company) and to hire new management. The lesson learned from
the DR-DOS case was that it was likely to be far more profitable to engage in
litigation than produce a Linux distribution. SCO Linux, the
successor to Caldera, was discontinued in 2003. Ladislav's
announcement at the time
reflected the anger and disgust felt by most of the Linux community.
Considering all that has happened with SCO it would be easy to simply say "good
riddance to bad rubbish". For those of us who remember what Caldera contributed
to Linux desktop development before things went so horribly wrong it isn't quite
that simple. The developers who made Caldera OpenLinux a leading distribution in
the late 1990s had nothing to do with the management who eventually destroyed the
distro and ultimately the company as well.
2. Storm Linux
At the same time Caldera OpenLinux was at the peak of its popularity a Vancouver,
Canada based startup called Stormix Technologies introduced a new distribution
called Storm Linux. In the late 1990s
Debian GNU/Linux was already very well established but it had
a reputation for being difficult to install and use. Nearly five years before
Mark Shuttleworth launched Ubuntu, Storm Linux brought users
the first Debian based distro designed for ease of use on the desktop with
frequent regular releases. It also included a modular graphical system
administration tool, Storm Administration System or SAS.
Storm Linux was very well received by the Linux community. I received a copy of
Storm Linux 2000, based on Debian Potato, with one of the Linux magazines I
subscribed to. It was the first Debian based distribution which I tried and I
found that I liked it. Storm Linux should have succeeded then but, unlike
Ubuntu, it lacked adequate funding. Less that two years after Stormix
Technologies was launched the company was in
bankruptcy. Less than three months later all the remaining employees were laid
off and the distro was gone for good. The demise of Storm Linux was the very
first news item on DistroWatch.
3. TurboLinux Lite
Japanese distributor TurboLinux is very much alive today
with a commercial distribution designed for enterprise use. TurboLinux Lite, a
free version designed to be lightweight, was sadly rather short-lived. It was
introduced in the spring of 1999 with version 2.0.
By August, 1999 TurboLinux 4.0 sported a GNOME desktop. TurboLinux Lite used a
default desktop environment built on the
AfterStep window manager and offered
lighter applications as well. It was the first distribution I saw designed
specifically to be able to run on older or lower spec hardware. I found it to be
perfect for my older machines and yet it didn't lack features and was easy to use.
I was impressed. The distro may be long gone but the concept of light yet highly
functional has since been copied by a large number of distributions. Unfortunately
TurboLinux Lite didn't add to the company's bottom line and by 2000 it had been
4. Feather Linux
Feather Linux was a British mini live CD distribution based
on Knoppix. It split the difference between the full
featured Knoppix and the really tiny Damn Small Linux.
Feather Linux, as the name implies, was lightweight and ran well on older
I became aware of Feather Linux in late 2003. By that time it was already
reasonably well established and had a fairly good following. The iso was still
under 50MB at the time, much like Damn Small Linux, but it quickly grew beyond
that, eventually reaching about 120MB by version 0.7.5. By not limiting the size
of the iso as severely as Damn Small Linux the Feather Linux developers were able
to offer somewhat larger and more powerful applications and a wider variety of
applications. They successfully did so without abandoning the goal of remaining
extremely lightweight. In 2005 I would have described Feather Linux as the most
usable and complete of the mini distros available at the time. The distro was
quite popular and had an active community around it.
Feather Linux 0.5.8, released 5 September 2004
(full image size: 73kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
In the spring of 2005 a change of lead developers was announced on the Feather
Linux forum. One release did follow and there was discussion of an upcoming
0.8.0 release later that year. Unfortunately it never materialized. Feather
Linux is still listed as "dormant" on DistroWatch but after four years without a
release it is probably discontinued.
As it became clear that development on Feather Linux had all but ground to a halt
I moved on to Slackware-based live CD distros. I found these distros to be
superior performers on my older hardware. I was impressed by the design of
Slax but the KDE desktop was heavier than what I wanted. By
2006 Slax had spawned a number of derivative distributions. The two that
impressed me the most had Xfce and IceWM desktops, respectively, and could squeeze more performance
and more apps onto a small iso. The first was Wolvix Cub.
The second was AliXe.
AliXe 0.09 "ICE", released 20 November 2006
(full image size: 994kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
AliXe was a solo project by Canadian developer Sylvie Migneault (a/k/a Alisou)
with the goal of promoting Linux in the French speaking community in Québec. The
bilingual (English/French) distro went well beyond that goal. While the iso was
still relatively small (just under 330MB for version 0.11b, with an Xfce desktop) it
added the gcc compiler and developer tools not normally found in
lightweight desktop live CD distros. That, combined with the fact that I needed both
languages, made AliXe seem like the ideal live CD for me, as reflected by my
Since version 0.11b was released in November, 2007 the developer has gone on to
work on other projects related to the EeePC, most notably ZenEee. AliXe is still
listed as active on DistroWatch but there have been no updates to the website and
no mention of any new version being developed even in Ms. Migneault's
Tuxee blog. The blog has also gone
silent in recent months. Hopefully Ms. Migneault is well and may decide to pick up AliXe
at some point in the future. As we approach two years without any activity I fear
the distro is dead.
Undoubtedly DistroWatch readers will remember other once impressive Linux
distributions which have been discontinued. As I noted at the outset this list is
rather personal to my experience and is by no means definitive. What is notable
about each of these five distributions is that they managed to break new ground in
some way. In most cases their innovations have been picked up by other distros
and advancements in the areas they championed continue.
|Miscellaneous News (by Chris Smart)
Slackware gets official ARM port, Ubuntu interviews with Shuttleworth and Bacon, BSD Magazine lives on, Google announces Chrome OS
The project has been in the works for a while, but now it's official - Slackware has a port for the ARM processor. Writing on the project's website, Patrick Volkerding writes: "Slackware has a new official port for the ARM architecture, by the name of ARMedslack, which has recently released the port of Slackware version 12.2. ARMedslack began in 2002 by Stuart Winter, with the primary goal of providing a full Slackware port for ARM desktop machines - initially targeting the Acorn StrongARM RiscPC, and later embedded devices." The packages are compiled for armv4, little endian, old/legacy ABI, and will run on most ARM devices. A new port to the EABI (Embedded ABI) is underway, however: "Currently I'm building and upgrading the base packages in armedslack-12.2 to bootstrap the new port. I expect to open a new -current branch with this work in the next few months."
* * * * *
The next release of Ubuntu is only three months away and according to founder Mark Shuttleworth, it will be a "definitive shift" in reference to the new kernel based mode-setting. He says: "There's some extraordinary work that's been done [on Koala], mostly pioneered by the Intel/Moblin team, the X team, and the kernel team (kernel mode setting), so I think that's going to be a definitive shift for us. I'm really hopeful we get that in." Fedora has moved to the new technology and has their Plymouth layer on top to provide a stunning boot up experience. Shuttleworth says Plymouth is just one option. He also hints at a new colour and graphical theme, but we've heard that before. Shuttleworth also comments on the relationship with Debian, saying: "It's very important to me that not only do we have a good relationship with Debian, but that Debian feels great about what we're doing. In a real sense, Debian is the epitome of free software collaboration and community, and Ubuntu has never been an attempt to detract from that." It looks like one of the world's most popular free operating systems will be getting a decent overhaul with Karmic Koala later in this year. Meanwhile, software company Coverity has been talking with Jono Bacon, Ubuntu's community manager, about the project's development method and open source in general.
* * * * *
Due to low sales BSD Magazine was set to halt future publications, and put out a cry to the community to help advertise. It appears to have worked for now, and the editor has announced that the Magazine will live on thanks to a sudden increase in sales and visits to the website. She writes: "Thanks to you all, BSD magazine will be published! I don’t know how you did this, but he sales figures from stores, website visits, newsletter subscribers increased immediately – you are the best!! I hope it will stay like this and that BSD magazine will win the fight for staying in operation for a long time! We still need your help and support, so please spread the word about BSD mag :)" If you're a fan of BSD have you considered a subscription or contributing to this project? There are numerous magazines in public circulation for Linux and specific distros, but few are dedicated solely to BSD. It would be a shame to see such a useful resource go to waste, however in this day and age one has to wonder how long paper magazines will last in general.
* * * * *
In other news, it was revealed this past week that Google is moving into the operating system sphere with a new product called "Chrome OS". The operating system will be based around their web browser, Chrome, with a new graphical interface all running atop the Linux kernel: "The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel." It is aimed squarely at the netbook market (including both Intel and ARM processor based systems) and therefore for users "living on the net", however use on the desktop has not been ruled out. The system will be open sourced later this year with commercial products available in 2010. "The operating systems that browsers run on were designed in an era where there was no web. So today, we’re announcing a new project that’s a natural extension of Google Chrome — the Google Chrome Operating System. It’s our attempt to re-think what operating systems should be." While their Android platform is designed for mobile network devices, Chrome OS fills the gap one step up with netbooks. How this might affect the adoption of other Linux distributions in the market remains to be seen, however one this is certain - any improvements that Google makes to the Linux kernel benefits everyone. That's the beauty of free software!
|Released Last Week
The PC-BSD Team is pleased to announce the immediate availability of
PC-BSD 7.1.1, a desktop operating system based on FreeBSD 7.2:
"Version 7.1.1 contains a number of bugfixes and
improvements from PC-BSD 7.1, including KDE 4.2.4, improvements to
printing support, Xorg Server 1.6.1, and much more. For a full list of
changes, please refer to the changelog. Users who wish to upgrade from
PC-BSD 7.0.x / 7.1 are able to do so via the upgrade / repair option
during the installation. Software specs: FreeBSD 7.2-Stable, KDE 4.2.4,
Xorg 7.4, Nvidia driver 185.18.14, Nvidia driver 173.14.18, Nvidia
driver 96.43.11, Nvidia driver 71.86.11." Read the
release notes and
Sabayon Linux 4.2 "KDE"
The "KDE" edition of Sabayon Linux 4.2
"KDE" edition, a Gentoo-based desktop distribution and live DVD, is
ready for download: "On the behalf of the Sabayon
Linux team, we are happy to announce the immediate availability of
Sabayon Linux 4.2 KDE. Distribution features: based on Sabayon 4.1 KDE,
containing hundreds of bug fixes and performance improvements; halved
hard disk footprint, less than 2GB ISO image; custom Linux kernel
2.6.29; ext4 as default filesystem; complete KDE 4.2.4 flavour;
OpenOffice 3.1; Compiz and Compiz Fusion 0.8.4; X.Org 7.4 supporting AMD
and NVIDIA latest video cards; multimedia applications (audio, video,
dvd ripping, file sharing)..." Find more
information in the detailed
CrunchBang Linux 9.04.01
CrunchBang Linux 9.04.01, an Ubuntu-based
distribution featuring the lightweight Openbox window manager, is now
available: "After a slight delay and a prolonged
testing period, the final builds of CrunchBang Linux 9.04.01 are now
available. As the version number suggests, it is based on Ubuntu Jaunty
Jackalope. As with all previous releases, 9.04.01 has been built from
scratch using the Ubuntu MinimalCD. The builds were completed on the
6th July 2009 and contain all security and package updates available at
that time. For the first time, CrunchBang Linux is available to download
in both 32 and 64-bit builds. Other noticeable changes as a result of
moving to the latest stable Ubuntu release include: much improved boot
performance with faster start-up times; improved support for wireless
cards; ext4 filesystem support." See the
announcement for further details.
Kongoni GNU/Linux 1.12.2
A. J. Venter has announced the availability of Kongoni
GNU/Linux 1.12.2, a free African GNU/Linux distribution based on
Slackware with significant inspiration from the BSD architectures:
"It is my pleasure to announce that Kongoni version
1.12.2, code-named Nietzsche, has been officially released. This marks
the first official and stable release of the Kongoni GNU/Linux
distribution after several development releases. The most significant
Kongoni feature is its source-based software installation system (known
as a ports tree), a feature that originated in the BSD UNIX world and
remains a popular power-users tool on present-day BSD UNIXes, Apple's
Mac OS X and source based GNU/Linux distributions. Kongoni, however, is
not a source-based distribution. The distribution itself is shipped as
binaries which work out of the box. The ports tree is used only for
installing additional software." Read the rest of the
announcement for more details.
Point Clark Networks announced the availability of the community edition
of ClarkConnect 5.0, a specialist CentOS-based
distribution for routers, gateways and firewalls:
"Highlights include: upgrade to CentOS 5.x; complete
LDAP integration; protocol filtering; improved bandwidth management;
mail quarantine; improved Windows integration (roaming profiles, recycle
bin support, file auditing). Version 5.x supports upgrades from
ClarkConnect 4.x and later. Upgrades from earlier versions are not
supported. When you run the ClarkConnect installer, make sure you select
the upgrade option. The 5.0 release is a major operating system upgrade,
so it is not possible to perform the upgrade on a live system. In
addition, users who have installed third party software packages or used
the command-line apt-get tool to install software should also run the
following command: yum upgrade. Known Issues: blank screens on first
boot with some types of hardware; localization is incomplete."
Read the detailed
notes and the changelog
for more information.
Parted Magic 4.3
Patrick Verner announced the release of Parted
Magic 4.3, a bug fix release of the popular live CD designed for
hard disk management tasks: "Not only did some bugs
get fixed, but a few new programs were added too. chntpw, nilfs-utils
2.0.12, gdisk 0.2.2, Adblock Plus 1.0.2 are now part of Parted Magic's
program line-up. These programs have been updated: udev 143, glib
2.20.4, GTK+ 2.16.4, e2fsprogs 1.41.7, Firefox 3.5, FireFTP 1.0.5,
Clonezilla 2.3.3-65, Linux kernel 184.108.40.206, p7zip_9.04, Partclone
0.1.1-15, NDISwrapper 1.55. We also took some time to redo the artwork.
Many thanks to Jason Vasquez for heading up this effort. I think it's
the best-looking version of Parted Magic yet!" Visit the project's
home page o read the full release
Fran¸ois Dupoux released an updated version of
SystemRescueCD a Gentoo-based live CD with a
collection of data rescue and hard disk partitioning tools. From the
"Updated the standard kernels to Linux-220.127.116.11;
updated the alternative kernels to Linux-18.104.22.168; updated the
sysresccd-cleansys script with the new packages list; updated Aufs to
git-20090622 for Linux kernel 2.6.29 (standard kernels); updated
FSArchiver to 0.5.8 (file systems backup and deployment tool); updated
e2fsprogs to 1.41.7 (ext2, ext3, ext4 file system tools); added
mtd-utils 20080907 (contains the tools related to ubifs); added
macchanger 1.5.0 (change the mac address of an interface); updated
NTFS-3G to version 2009.4.4-AR12 (NTFS-3G advanced release); PXE boot
fix: allow thttpd to send files with the execution permission; added
mdadm support in the initial boot process."
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
- FreeBSD FreeBSD 8.0-BETA1, the release announcement
- Frugalware Linux 1.1 Pre 2, the release announcement
- Tiny Core 2.2-rc1, the release announcement
- Calculate Linux Desktop 9.7 XFCE, the release announcement
- MoLinux 5.0, La Versio´n Educativa, the release announcement
- Pardus Linux 2009 RC2, the release announcement
- Elive 1.9.33, the release announcement
- wattOS 1.0 Beta 3, the release announcement
- GeeXboX 1.2.3, the release announcement
- IP Cop 1.9.6
- Astaro Security Gateway 7.470
- Vine Linux 5.0-beta1
- Momonga Linux 6-beta1
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
New distributions added to waiting list
- Element GNU/Linux.
Element GNU/Linux is a specialist distribution based on Ubuntu for
media-center personal computers, designed to be connected to your HDTV
for a digital media and internet experience within the comforts of your
own living room or entertainment area.
- 8ix Zenith CE.
8ix Zenith CE is a specialist distribution based on Asterisk for IP
telephony applications with a rolling release schedule.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 20 July 2009.
Caitlyn Martin and Chris Smart
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Thanks (by Tim on 2009-07-13 13:19:24 GMT from United States) |
First time first poster...WooHoo. Thanks for the flash back into the older distros. Another good distro for networking capability was Tao Linux based on Gentoo. I used it for Ham Radio communication back in the day.
2 • Best Graphics OS (by Tim on 2009-07-13 13:22:23 GMT from United States)
I would like to get everyones opinion on the best linux OS for 2/D and 3/D graphics design. This would need to include Wacom support as well. I have a Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet that works with some OS's but not all. Any comments would be appreciated.
3 • Libranet (by PCBSDuser on 2009-07-13 13:25:41 GMT from Canada)
So many distros gone - one I was really sorry to see disappear was Libranet, both for the quality it had and the sad circumstances.
4 • Editorial comment (by Pearson on 2009-07-13 13:33:33 GMT from United States)
In the introduction to this week's DWW, the sentence "We also link to an interview with Jono Bacon, the project's Community Manager" seems to be out of context. I think you meant to say "[...] the Ubuntu project's Community Manager."
5 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-13 13:36:05 GMT from Canada)
cant wait for sidux today - also elive on eee is fantastic
6 • @ 238 last week (by Rivet on 2009-07-13 13:38:11 GMT from India)
Pardon me for commenting on last week's comment.
238 - "USED MEMORY IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS STATISTIC when comparing Operating Systems. ESPECIALLY modern ones, with cached memory."
May I know if used memory is a completely worthless statistic when comparing operating systems then why do operating systems' manufacturers publish RAM figures please?
7 • Discontinued Distros (by JML on 2009-07-13 13:47:18 GMT from United States)
The distro I miss most is a Debian based distro called Libranet. It was a commercial distro sold by Libra Computer systems. It's claim to fame was an easy to use installer, good hardware recognition, and easy to use administrative tools. It got me hooked on Debian based distros. It was discontinued after the untimely death of the lead developer.
8 • Caldera OpenLinux (by Bill on 2009-07-13 13:49:02 GMT from Canada)
Great article. I just happen to have my eDesktop 2.4 on my desk.Just using it to remember vi commands.
I remember buying mine for $10 with a $10 mail-in rebate.
It's funny the manual describes KDE 1.1.2 as a User-Friendly,Feature-Rich Desktop
Good memories of getting started with Linux
9 • #4 - Corrected, #3 & #7 - Never tried that one (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-13 13:51:58 GMT from United States)
#4: @Pearson: Good catch. Things got out of sequence. It's been corrected. Thanks for pointing out the error.
#3/#7 - I never tried Libranet so I obviously couldn't write about it. This is why I suggested both at the beginning and the end that the list is personal. I fully expected DWW readers to remember others, both ones I missed at the time and ones that I simply forgot about.
10 • ram (by To on 2009-07-13 13:53:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think the total ram available is more of an issue than how much of it is being used at any particular moment. If you have 512Mb ram on your machine it really doesn't matter much whether 450Mb of it are being used at one moment or only 20Mb, the important thing is that there is still some ram available to be used. I think that was the gist of what he was saying.
The swappiness value (usually defaults at 60%) should keep some ram free at all times and will intelligently shove slightly less urgent stuff onto the swap partition/file. Having more ram decreases the chances of your swap being used 'obviously' which will lead to some slight performance increase. I think that's about right?
11 • RE: Discontinued Distros (by Garret on 2009-07-13 13:54:17 GMT from United States)
I'll second Libranet, VERY sadly missed.
12 • Discontinued distros (by Kevin on 2009-07-13 13:56:51 GMT from Canada)
As a couple of others have already stated, Libranet was a great distro. and the first Linux OS I used on my desktop at home.
13 • Memory lane (by vredfreak on 2009-07-13 13:57:02 GMT from United States)
I too was a fan of Feather, and was sad to see development come to a halt.
@3 -- I have to second the sentiments about Libranet. Definitely missed.
Another distribution that I enjoyed but is no longer around is EvilEntity. I liked their attitude more than anything, but it was my introduction into Enlightenment as well.
14 • RE: EvilEntity (by Garret on 2009-07-13 14:09:37 GMT from United States)
Back in the days when I ran the GUILinux.com website we did an interview with the guys from EvilEntity. I've got to say, while the distro was a great intro to the real power of Enlightenment, the people behind it were just plain awesome.
15 • Libranet (by Chess on 2009-07-13 14:23:36 GMT from United States)
I will join the chorus lamenting the loss of Libranet. I /loved/ that distro. All those custom tools and utilities were great.
16 • Lost Distros (by Justin Whitaker on 2009-07-13 14:34:02 GMT from United States)
One that is on my personal "damn, wish they weren't gone" list is JAMD. So freaking easy to use. I found a mirror that still had .6 available, and tried it on a new machine and it still worked. Thought about taking it and updating it, then realized I can't code worth a damn. :P
17 • Unsung distros (by Jesse on 2009-07-13 14:35:23 GMT from United States)
While some people didn't consider them *real* distros, I really owe my conversion from Windows to Linux to two small projects -- Pygmy Linux and PhatLinux. Both of them would install on a FAT partition (much the way a regular application would), which made trying out Linux a lot less scary.
As Linux became easier to install, I think these projects lost their corner of the market, but they offered a great way to dip one's toe in the Linux waters without the risk of messing up an existing install.
18 • Corel linux (by vinutux on 2009-07-13 14:48:04 GMT from India)
Where is Corel linux
19 • Libranet (by Heema on 2009-07-13 14:50:01 GMT from Egypt)
i also loved libranet , it had a custom GUI tool that made recompiling the kernel very easy
20 • Ubuntu 8.04.3 (by LAZA on 2009-07-13 14:51:14 GMT from Germany)
It's scheduled for Thursday, 16. July, but it is missed at the upcoming releases!
21 • Another One for Libranet (by Jared on 2009-07-13 14:55:50 GMT from United States)
I'll add to the praise of Libranet. It was a great distro. I miss it.
22 • 20 posts and no Chrome?U (by Leo on 2009-07-13 14:56:47 GMT from United States)
Unbelievable ;-) I think Chrome will have a huge impact in terms of Desktop market share of Linux. Of course, only time will tell.
23 • libranet (by david on 2009-07-13 14:58:45 GMT from United States)
i too own a libranet dvd that i purchased. it is currently on a spindle that resides on my desk(i refuse to dispose of it). that was remarkable project and a great os with an awesome config center. i wish his son would start up the project again.
24 • Old Memories (by Fernando Gracia on 2009-07-13 15:11:16 GMT from United States)
Caldera 2.3 was the great door that introduced me to the Linux world it was just fantastic and it took over my win 95, I used it for good time until it was replaced in 2000 by Mandrake 7.1. Those are my most missed distros.
25 • Memory Lane (by Pearson on 2009-07-13 15:14:42 GMT from United States)
Oddly, none of the distros that I've used (that I can recall) have gone away.
My first Linux was Slackware (I forget the version, but it was on floppies and had kernel 0.99plxx). I moved from that to, I think, Redhat 4, and then Slackware again, then Debian then Ubunutu. I'm now running Ubuntu and putting Debian on a laptop.
26 • Caldera Openlinux (by saptech on 2009-07-13 15:24:16 GMT from United States)
I cut my teeth on Caldera 1.2 version, I believe. It wasn't the latest version but I believe it was around '99. I had to manually install an early version of KDE. It was a good learning experience for me and I haven't looked back since. Although now days I run Debian, Mandriva & Sourcemage as my main OSes.
27 • Libranet (by Sergio1704 on 2009-07-13 15:41:22 GMT from Italy)
+1 for Libranet. It must be the most loved and missed discontinued distro.
It must also be one of the few distros capable of making a buck from its sales: users were happy to pay for it.
28 • Gone Linuxes (by Gene Venable on 2009-07-13 15:41:45 GMT from United States)
Covering distros that have passed was a great inspiration. I guess I used Caldera Linux a bit, before it was possessed by Satan.
Many of us remember distros that we have abandoned with nostalgia, even if they are alive today. I think of Suse 3.1 with regret, for example. But Puppy Linux was later my enthusiastic reentry to the world of Linux. I think you should consider another article on Puppy and what has happened since its founder retired. It seems to be going stronger than ever.
29 • No subject (by fernando on 2009-07-13 15:45:21 GMT from Brazil)
Near the end of Caldera's:
[...] Ladislav's > at the time reflect...
The link links to the DW home!
Something wrong with my browser?
30 • Libranet (by Tony Magnusson on 2009-07-13 15:49:04 GMT from Sweden)
R.I.P Libranet & Jon Danzig. I hope Tal (Jon's son) reads the comments here. Many ppl miss Libranet, including me. :(
31 • Libranet (by Sean on 2009-07-13 15:55:09 GMT from United States)
Other than Danzig, does anybody know much about the other team members at Libranet and where they are now?
32 • Libranet, more (by Sergio1704 on 2009-07-13 15:59:04 GMT from Italy)
Hi fellow Libranetters
Tal doesn't stand a chance of making money from Libranet code any longer.
Wouldn't be nice if he donated the code to the community?
33 • RE: #31 (by Sergio1704 on 2009-07-13 16:03:51 GMT from Italy)
To my knowledge, the only other Libranet team member is danieldk and he can be found here:
34 • Libranet for me too (by Mike Kranidis on 2009-07-13 16:07:54 GMT from Greece)
+one for Libranet and from me! I missed so much...
35 • 'real' distros (by mick on 2009-07-13 16:20:36 GMT from Canada)
Re: #17 Unsung Distros
+1 to that, Jesse - on top of Pygmy and PhatLinux, there was also Topologi Linux. Like you, I cut my teeth on a FAT32 installable Linux distro. It was cool later to discover live CDs like Knoppix, and that the world would not end if I got rid of Windows completely...
36 • This is amazing... (by Sean on 2009-07-13 16:21:19 GMT from United States)
...DWW posts a fine article, although a bit short :o) about "gone but not forgotten" distros, and the gone distro most talked about for the first two and a half comments is Libranet, not mentioned in the DWW article.
37 • @ 29 fernando, missing link (by Tom on 2009-07-13 16:22:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes that link does go to the wrong place, it's the only wrong one i've found so far :)
38 • oops (by Sean on 2009-07-13 16:22:34 GMT from United States)
..sorry for double-post but the phrase obviously should be "...the first two and a half DOZEN comments..." :o)
39 • Nostalgia (by Ninad Bapat on 2009-07-13 16:23:31 GMT from India)
I used mulinux and then Dragonlinux both with UMSDOS support. So no need of partitioning which I was afraid of.
Then took my first steps with Slackware 8.1 (bought from a vendor)
on an ext2 partition
Cannot forget listening to mp3's with mpg123 on command line
40 • Libranet RIP (by MET on 2009-07-13 16:24:01 GMT from Canada)
+ 1 for Libranet. You are missed.
41 • Live CDs (by saptech on 2009-07-13 16:25:16 GMT from United States)
Speaking of livecds...I think DemoLinux was one of the very first Live CDs.
42 • Bamboo Fun (by 1369ic on 2009-07-13 16:32:22 GMT from United States)
#2: I've tried the Bamboo Fun with at least a dozen distros, and the easiest one I've found to get it running on is Mandriva. The best is Vector. I saw the best because I really like Mandriva, but it's not as fast as Vector. If you're going to be doing digital work on anything other than a top-notch machine, you're better off with a lighter distro and window manager. Fluxbox or Openbox are my favorites, because you don't have panels and whatnot in your way.
I have Slackware on my desktop and it's every bit as good as Vector (or vice versa, actually), which is on my laptop, but Slackware takes more to set up. You really should roll your own kernel, for example. I tried several of the "artist's distros" -- ArtistX, 64Studio, Ubuntu Studio, etc., and was disappointed with all of them for one reason or another. None were as easy to get working with a Wacom tablet as Mandriva, and none offered the performance of Vector. That's a release or two ago for all of them, however. YMMV.
Good luck with it, whatever you choose.
43 • Libranet (by Jochem Kossen on 2009-07-13 16:35:14 GMT from Netherlands)
Libranet was some great achievement.
It's kind of interesting that noone up to now tried to re-create adminmenu. Sounds like quite a nice project.
44 • @29 (by MRaugh on 2009-07-13 16:40:05 GMT from United States)
It's a typo in the link. Try:
45 • Adminmenu (by JML on 2009-07-13 16:56:14 GMT from United States)
Adminmenu was one of the few components of the distro that was proprietary, and not open source. So it would have been quite an undertaking to reverse engineer an open source version. I agree with the previous poster, that it would be nice it Tal would atleast release the code so others could develop it.
46 • Old times (by Barnabyh on 2009-07-13 17:01:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yeah, I fondly remember running Caldera eDesktop 2.3 for a while, bought it somewhere per mailorder for $1, together with Storm linux, which would not even boot just giving me a black screen on a Pentium II 266MHz with 64 ram.
Corel Linux, liked it for a minute or to but was performing really slow.
IMO the best (that I knew of) were Mandrake 7 & 8 and Caldera at that time.
47 • JAMD is still missed (by PastorEd at 2009-07-13 17:05:15 GMT from United States)
Great to see that some one else still misses JAMD. That was a great Linux, and the community was really good, until the main developer faded away. When it got "combined" with another distro, the "new" version was such a train wreck... sigh.
Miss the JAMD forums, especially.
48 • re#18 Gorel where are you? (by hab on 2009-07-13 17:20:07 GMT from Canada)
Corel linux was acquired by xandros. According to wikipedia corel still holds a stake in xandros. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corel_Linux
I ran turbolinux for about a year in the late 90's. It was later sold to the japanese and disappeared.
Best not to get too tightly wedded to one distro, i guess!
49 • Caldera OpenLinux (by PhantomTramp on 2009-07-13 17:22:21 GMT from United States)
Ah, yes. OpenLinux. It was like hearing "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" for the first time. Well, almost...
50 • First W (by Doctor Feelgood on 2009-07-13 17:22:26 GMT from United States)
Did you see Wolvix mentioned in article?
51 • Mandriva 2010 Alpha2 (by 1linuxfreak on 2009-07-13 17:22:41 GMT from United States)
Maybe when the PCLinuxOS crew copies this release they will include KDE 4 . Get with the program here people KDE 4 is here and is working fine .
Change is happening , change or be left behind !
PCLinuxOSasuar , we refuse to change .
52 • re#51 kde (by hab on 2009-07-13 17:31:31 GMT from Canada)
I didn't realize we were all in a contest to see who runs the latest/greatest. Is there a prize, where do i enter? What can i win?
Seriously tho' to characterize it that way i think really misses the whole point of the exercise.
Run what you like, not what somebody thinks you should run.
I certainly don't give a flying f*ck what you say i should run. Thank you,.................... no!
I, like you, will run what works best for me.
53 • To Rivet (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-13 17:58:15 GMT from United States)
I apologize for using capital letters, but you really need to start reading my posts. I'm not becoming fond of repeating myself.
Used Memory used to be a big deal. Windows XP, for example, has little to no RAM management, so you can find out how slow and bloated your installation is by looking at the Process Manager.
However, in the case of Linux, modern versions of Windows, and Mac OS X, this memory is being used for all sorts of things other than just programs. I know offhand that Vista starts defragging your hard drive, for example, when you're not accessing it all that much. Ubuntu, when it had Tracker (does it still?) will start indexing files. All of these OS' will cache memory available for programs so that things run smoother behind the curtain.
You can boot up Windows 7 and say, "Oh, it's bloated, it uses 400 MB of memory." That was my initial response. But then I booted it up on a machine with less RAM, and that number shrunk accordingly - because Windows 7 knew that there was less memory to use in a useful way. This is the case with every OS nowadays.
Bragging about a low used RAM statistic out of the box is a false advertising trick. You can say your distro is tuned for lower end computers, but that RAM figure matters very little. For example, AntiX might say that it's for older computers with less RAM, but on computers with lots of extra RAM Linux's memory management will cache and move RAM space around so that it runs faster regardless. A fool journalist would run AntiX on a computer with 4 GB of RAM and remark how it could never manage to fit into a machine with less than 1 GB, because he misunderstands the cache system.
54 • good distro abandoned (by Anonymous on 2009-07-13 17:59:40 GMT from Canada)
One of my biggest disapointement was when stormix was abandonned. Stormix was the ubuntu of that time, but never gain enough attention.
55 • kongoni bad first impression (by RollMeAway on 2009-07-13 18:03:30 GMT from United States)
Installation went smoothly. But then the fun ended.
Release should have been on a DVD. Too many things were left out.
Tried the PIG (ports install Gui). It didn't recognize many packages, including itself, were installed.
Most attempts at installing packages with PIG failed for unknown reasons.
It pops up a temporary term window to show the transaction, but automatically closes, before you can read the results.
ftp.slackware.com was the default repo. I believe this must be connected to a 24K modem, and almost never works. I managed to switch to a mirror and got some packages, but too many packages failed to install.
I would classify this release as an alpha at best.
Perhaps someone else had a better experience?
56 • Another "which distro is worth trying?" question (by Tom on 2009-07-13 18:16:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
From the ubuntu forums
A Pentium 2, 300 MHz, Toshiba T8000, "i want to use just [MS]office on my laptop"
I suggested trying a slackware based distros such as vector, wolvix and zenwalk but i think these are possibly still unlikely to work on such a low spec? I would guess that sliTaz would be good?
@2 Tim, i thought you were asking for advice on which packages to use and i haven't a clue about that. Wolvix seems to be good for artists that don't want distracting colour-schemes outside their work-area as these may change the way colours appear in a package *shrugs* i don't really understand that, just repeating something a few artists have said over the years.
57 • Feather Linux (by Elder Vintner LaCoste on 2009-07-13 18:34:32 GMT from United States)
I really miss Feather. I found an "updated" version somewhere (the applications are still very outdated with Firefox 2.XX) and it still looks great. Nice retrospective article.
I ran Kongoni live. I did have the same trouble you had with the PIG thing. I would like to see it come with an alternative window manager that requires less resources for older machines (KDE 4 is the default which I like but still...). I installed the previous version and had the same problems. It's coming along but still needs some work. I can't use it without Flashplayer though.
58 • Re:#56 (by Leo on 2009-07-13 18:41:30 GMT from United States)
I would try Tiny Core
59 • Good that those distros are gone (by Golodh on 2009-07-13 19:07:34 GMT from Netherlands)
Good that those distros are ... gone. They did their job, which was to investigate certain ways of packaging distros. And now they are redundant ... and they went the way of the dodo.
What Linux as a whole needs aren't umpteen different fly-by-night distros maintained by one man and his dog, just three or so extremely good ones maintained by a proper team.
What makes a good distro? Well I'd say that a good distro is one that:
(1) you can trust because it actually *tests* packages for installability and compatibility with installed libraries (instead of just cramming tarballs onto a disk) and ensures that everything it packages actually installs and runs
(2) includes a choice of installable window managers (KDE, Gnome, command-line)
(3) provides a GUI package manager that understands package dependencies
(4) allows you to install generic machines for a variety of purposes (e.g. desktop machine, developer machine, file server, database server, minimal machine) presents the detailed package list and then allows you to tweak that list
(5) can configure the more standard things for you, or will allow you to do that through a GUI interface (e.g. Samba, MySQL/Postgress, LAMP stack or similar), including setting the firewall and opening needed ports (while closing all the others)
Distributions like that empower people to run Linux, not just hobbyists who like nothing better than to rummage around with the system. They make Linux practical. Unfortunately they are also quite hard and time-consuming to make and to maintain.
In fact, maintaining them is un-fun. Because it takes so much tedious painstaking attention to detail. And because it takes so much time.
But then again, that's the whole reason why people use a distro instead of downloading raw tarballs and building their own system from scratch. People who want to use their system to do something else besides learning to do system administration.
For that reason do we need no more than about 3 distros, and both Linux and its users are best served if the rest stopped hogging mindshare and just went away.
60 • lol (by Tom on 2009-07-13 19:22:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
I totally disagree. There's room in the world for a lot of diversity. If natural selection and evolution really led to only 3 or so varieties then we might expect to see something like that in nature rather than the exact opposite.
What some people want to feel safe is a lack of competition and for everything to stay well within their own comfort zone. As pointed out there are a huge variety of different reasons and needs for computer systems. What's best for a server is unlikely to be best for a pocket calculator.
In a way we already have what you suggest. We have linux. The different distros aim at different points you make in 4 and 5, most adhere to the quality you demand in your earlier points or else we bitch about them until they change or die.
There are already about 2 or 3 major distros supported by commercial companies but this still leaves room for hobbyists.
61 • #59 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-13 19:30:33 GMT from United States)
I take exception to your comment about the Dodo. The Dodo did not disappear because it was redundant, it was hunted into extinction. The rest of you commentary is just uninteresting and unnecessarily provocative.
62 • duality (by Tom on 2009-07-13 19:32:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
We share innovations, code, ideas, upstream packages (such as firefox) and endless more so no effort anyone makes is ever really wasted. It's amazing how often this nonsense of "you should only have 1 or 2 distros" is applied but people don't say the same thing of hardware, or groceries, or movies, or music or art, or leisure pursuits. Sorry, i guess it annoys me - perhaps time for a glass of wine, or perhaps a beer, or better still maybe a pizza.
63 • #29/37/44: Broken link fixed (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-13 20:14:35 GMT from United States)
The broken link to Ladislav's announcement about SCO Linux has been fixed. Sorry I couldn't get back to it earlier.
64 • The CrunchBang #! Phenomenon (by Anonymous on 2009-07-13 20:14:55 GMT from United States)
CrunchBang hit the DW charts at about 38th position and within 2 (two) months were propelled into 25th position, 18th in the most recent thee months, 13th in the last 30 days and 3rd in the last week. (remember these averages are sliding ever so gradually as time passes)
Rising to the surface faster than Ubuntu, Mint and Sabayon which is a spin-off of the throw-back Gentoo.
Just a 'heads up' to those that might be asleep at the switch, while it is nice to reminisce about the the DDD 'Dearly Departed Distros', keep your focus on the future and right now CrunchBang #! is stirring up the mix in a big way albeit unnoticed...by the controlled media.
65 • Re: #48 (hab) TurboLinux (by JB on 2009-07-13 20:17:18 GMT from United States)
I also ran TurboLinux in the late 1990s and was a private beta tester in the run-up to 2.0.
Contrary to what hab wrote, TurboLinux was not "sold to the Japanese." The reason TurboLinux supported Japanese so well is that it was initially a Japanese distro - Pacific HiTech AKA Turbo Linux developed it in a storefront office in western Tokyo. I even worked for them on a part-time contract basis for a while. The owners of the company were not Japanese (Cliff and Iris are American), but they were living in Japan and TL had a strong focus on good CJK support. At the time, it had the best out-of-the-box CJK support of any distro, by far.
What made TL disappear was a combination of things: first, they got lots of money from VCs during what I call the "Linux bubble" and hired an assload of staff and moved to a really big office in Shibuya, and tried to do too much, too fast, without (IMO) an adequate plan.
Second, the VCs who provided all that funding soon put in their own management, which was clueless about Linux. This at least contributed to worseining the problems listed above. It probably directly caused some of them.
Third, Red Hat caught up to TL for CJK support, and its brand was much better known in Japan and elsewhere. This allowed RH to conquer TL's core markets in Asia, while TL had failed to even make a dent in RH's core market in North America.
I eventually dumped TL for Red Hat myself, and later moved to Debian. It was a shame to see TL implode, they really did a lot of great CJK work that they failed to capitalize on.
66 • No subject (by smasher23 on 2009-07-13 20:24:49 GMT from Australia)
why not get someone like chris smart to write the reviews. Caitlyn Martin is not a good reviewer and chris smart writes great reviews.
67 • #66 (by RC on 2009-07-13 20:49:42 GMT from United States)
Here is a time tested formula used by civilized cultures and individuals that have been refined with manners and good sense when they have a personal issue with someone. If you have to say something...do so to the party you have the issue with in private....instead of acting like a child....or an idiot....and trying to humiliate them in public. I am pretty sure most of the people on the board would appreciate that...and so would the target of your stupidity.
68 • @64 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-13 21:04:49 GMT from United States)
But Crunchbang won't stay there.
Crunchbang is good, but it's really just a re-spin of Ubuntu in a lot of ways. It's not quite as solid as Ubuntu to me, but then again, I'm not quite used to Openbox.
What "controlled media?" Linux media consists largely of blogs and the occasional major tech news site now and then. Who is controlling the media in your fantasy?
69 • @ 66 Reviews (by Tom on 2009-07-13 21:08:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have to agree with two thirds of that. Chris does superb articles and reviews and it'd be great to hear from him. I disagree with the rest tho, i think Caitlyn is great too & enjoyed the nostalic trip this week - it makes a good change from always racing onwards. The post seems a little off topic tho - who cares about your or my opinion? I don't ;)
70 • @67 (by Sean on 2009-07-13 21:23:07 GMT from United States)
Self-negating post there, RC. I appears you're attempting to humiliate the author of post 66.
Meanwhile, Caitlyn has garnered a niche of fans here, myself included, who await her writings every week. Having said that, I feel it is fine to be have opinions about reviewers and to post those here even when negative; it is part of the landscape of DWW and is ok as long as not merely an ongoing abuse-fest.
As far as folks posts in here bothering me, over time I find myself scrolling past as soon as I see their name, leaving their post unread by me (only one "folk" so far.. lol).
71 • next ubuntu (by bakup on 2009-07-13 21:34:06 GMT from Germany)
i cant wait to see the next in ubuntu in 3 months ill be so exited to see it boot up and see changes with the artwork.... if they get better then i almost do see a reason for linux mint, and yes i am a mint user
72 • Forgotten distro ... (by Chip on 2009-07-13 21:41:53 GMT from United States)
I really fell in love with a distro named JAMD. It was a Redhat derivative before the days of fedora.
73 • re#65 turbolinux bye-bye (by hab on 2009-07-13 21:43:25 GMT from Canada)
Just going by what wikipedia says here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbolinux
74 • Another Libranet Fan! (by old Libranet user on 2009-07-13 21:46:26 GMT from United States)
Man I agree with the Libranet posts. I still to this day do not know why somebody did not buy the code for it. I thought Adminmenu put it in another class by itself. I used to recompile kernels for a old laptop I had. Very nice. Hope the code is opened up. Nice article, guys.
75 • @59 (by Joe on 2009-07-13 21:48:06 GMT from United States)
- Only three flavors of Linux? I would find it boring. And, I think it would severely stifle creativity. Look at all of the different niches that Linux fills today. I can pick and choose the distro that works best for me and my particular needs. It's all about choice.
- And, Distrowatch would be a very short read, indeed. And I like Distrowatch, so the more distros -- the merrier.
76 • Lost distros (by stuckinoregon on 2009-07-13 22:20:05 GMT from United States)
I heard tale of one called Kororaa that once gave hope to those wanting to run a Gentoo flavor without all the hassle. ;-)
77 • Libranet (by Andy Axnot on 2009-07-13 22:27:40 GMT from United States)
Wow! Judging from the comments here Libranet must have been quite something in its time. I'm sorry I missed it.
78 • #! Crunchbang (by greenpossum on 2009-07-13 22:47:50 GMT from Australia)
@64 and @68. The reason Crunchbang is getting the attention this week is because it just released a 9.04 Jaunty based version and also because it's available for x86_64 arch now. I have played around with Crunchbang and it's fine. No stability problem that I can see. It attracts people who want to run it on a lower spec machine, would prefer their RAM go to programs instead of the UI, are happy to use keyboard shortcuts instead of the screen space consuming menus of Ubuntu, or maybe use the Crunchee version for netbooks. After this blip it will settle back to normal popularity. Anyway congratulations to Corenominal for the release.
79 • Sorry but... (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-13 22:52:26 GMT from United States)
I don't mean to get the "W" thing going again but I just noticed there is a new review on the main DW page. Once again, apologies for bringing it up but it is interesting.
I agree. I look forward to the new releases of the established distros and it is even more exciting when a totally new distro is announced. I learn things from trying out the older distros, even the discontinued ones. I am using a distro with Afterstep as the window manager right now and am really enjoying it.
80 • RE #65 by JB and Libranet.... (by M. McNabb on 2009-07-13 23:14:28 GMT from United States)
Sounds like an interesting story! Ladislav, maybe you could twist his arm to write a feature about it for one of the upcoming weeklies?
Another Libranet fan was I! It was a very nice distribution with the best user community that I have ever experienced in my eight or so years of Linux use. Adminmenu was very well thought out and the whole distribution was very easy to use and stable for me. I bought three versions and those were the best purchases of Linux that I have made (also bought early versions of Suse, and Caldera 2.4e also.)
Linux has come a long way since then, with so much user friendly and hardware compatibility work accomplished. It's amazing and the only OS I will install for new computer users (most will wreak havoc on a Windows distributions within a year.)
Merci for a nice impetus to wax nostalgic Caitlyn!
81 • GOS -> GCOS (by jackstraw on 2009-07-13 23:36:03 GMT from United States)
The Google Chrome OS seems to have basically adapted the idea of the latest iteration of GOS [http://thinkgos.com] with updated technology. The GOS folks have come up with some interesting spins on the minimal/functional Ubunty desktop, first with an Enlightenment desktop with an OSX look and hooks to popular web sites/apps [MySpace etc.], then with [as I recall] an LXDE implementation of Google Gears, again with an OSX-like appearance.
So it will be interesting how much the Google bling will push this into general acceptance for the always-connected crowd. My point is that the paradigm is already out there, just waiting for major players to brand it, and let the marketplace accept or kill it.
82 • CrunchBang (by Sertse on 2009-07-14 00:04:03 GMT from Australia)
Who's to say CrunchBang would not turn into the new Mint? That distro, "only" an Ubuntu spin off, in one way, if we believe DWW is more popularity than even the usual big distros we associate with Linux. That must really annoy some people ;)
I can't really comment on the article, I hasn't around then. The Ubuntu hegemony was already around when I came....
83 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 00:19:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
I believe Golodh does make a very valid point. G speaks of furthering the promulgation of GNULinx stuff by reliable entities, who or which, have the resources to develop a distro and test it properly, year after year after year.
If a computer manufacturer is offered, so to speak, a distro to install on his latest creation, said manufacturer is going to insist said distro is fully supported...and more to the point updated reliably and effectively as need arises, eg security issues. They certainly do not install a hobbyist, one man and his dog type distro, which will not be supported for as long or reliably as one of the bigger concerns.
G was commenting on, as far as I understood the thrust of the argument, the fact that the "old" distros were merely stepping stones in the overall development of a/the "distro" as a commercial product, and, as such had had their day and went the way of the "dodo".
Some folk found his remarks offensive for some obscure reason, why? G spoke good common sense. Obviously, if computering is your hobby you are bound to be a bit unhappy with his views, but one might stretch the metaphor by suggesting out and out hobbyists are ostriches...head in the sand.
You have only to read the DW home page to see there are many distros being developed and used commercially without any help from hobbyists...all over the planet.
It could be argued it is BECAUSE of the huge selection of hobbyist distros which is holding up the widespread adoption of the GNULinux desktop, owing perhaps, to the bewildering choice available which simply confuses those MS users looking for something different.
Naturally, having a wide choice for hobbyist distros to trial is a good thing...I've tried dozens and dozens...some interesting and some not. But, I don't pretend for an instant a hobbyist distro is any more than just that.
It could be argued also that for some hobbyists simply loading, installing and tweaking a distro is an end in itself, and if this is your hobby then why not?
It could be rather better argued that the vast majority of computer users just want a solid, reliable, well supported...free OS to enable them to use the computer as a tool, not a toy.
84 • Great Linux distros that didn't survive (by MDJ on 2009-07-14 00:21:38 GMT from United States)
The list of five is short but I certainly wished Libranet Linux found its
place in that list.
85 • IPCop (by superbad on 2009-07-14 00:52:26 GMT from United States)
I see IPCop updates on distrowatch, but their website shows no updates.
IPCop 1.9.6 listed this week, but ipcop website shows 1.4.21 as latest??
86 • #! CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer (by Pollick Tically Korreck on 2009-07-14 00:58:59 GMT from N/A)
Wow! Their disclaimer tells the ugly truth.
"CrunchBang Linux could possibly make your computer go CRUNCH! BANG! Therefore CrunchBang Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law."
Well it might be a pretty good distro, but the part about it possibly making your computer go CRUNCH! BANG! speaks volumes.
87 • #83 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-14 01:00:16 GMT from United States)
Do you really believe that or do you just like to play "devil's advocate"? "Obscure reasons?"
If you find the "obscurity" languishing in the developmental occlusion of the myopic vision which enshrouds the absolute, iconic, framework, then your a priori assumptions are questionable by any standards. If on the other hand, you find the suggestion of diversity (as opposed to diversification) troubling, then I can understand why you would find the multiplicity of options even more of a challenge. I can't decide if it is the actual number of these options that is the impetus for your reluctance to embrace the wonderful choices available, or if it is a sham (implication being that you are a "schill" for some larger corporate entity). Either way, I do notice that we disagree quite often. I don't like being disagreed with but you do seem like a pretty decent chap so carry on.
88 • oh dear lord (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-14 01:32:34 GMT from United States)
@86: Apparently no one can even make a joke on their Linux distro page without someone taking their words literally. Dear lord, when has the linux community been full of stuffy boring people who can't take a smirk or two?
Just so you know, that lack of a warranty is included in the GPL. The joke is not.
@78: I wasn't saying "solid" in terms of stability. Please read my post again.
89 • crunchbang and ipcop (by greenpossum on 2009-07-14 01:34:18 GMT from Australia)
@82: Crunchbang is ok, but I think people are willing to pay for the RAM to get the polish of Mint. Entry-level machines these days run Mint very well.
@85: IPCop 1.9.6 is a testing release in the run up to 2.0. Use at your own risk. Although I believe large portions work.
@86: Either you have no sense of humour or your sense of humour is too obscure for me. Just in case: It's a joke. All the distros have disclaimers. They are all run at your own risk. Did you believe Mark Shuttleworth would give you compensation of Ubuntu borked your hardware?
Personally I think it's great that Corenominal has crunched Ubuntu down a bit to give a bit more bang to older hardware.
90 • solid Ubuntu (by greenpossum on 2009-07-14 02:07:33 GMT from Australia)
@88: Ok so I don't know what you meant by solid. Is #! more liquid or gaseous? :) Anyway it's probably 95% or more of Ubuntu packages with just the desktop manager changed and a different, lighter, set of applications. That, the use of hotkeys, and the constantly updating stats on the desktop, would probably confuse most refugees from Windows. They would be better off with Ubuntu or Mint and a copy of Ubuntu for Dummies or similar. But #! did benefit from the faster booting times of Jaunty.
91 • Re:89 (by PTK on 2009-07-14 02:15:05 GMT from United States)
greenpossum, Who died and made you the humor police? Duh! I know about the disclaimers. I work at advising linux noobs who are concidering leaving Windows and ask me this question for a reference for an iso that would be great for a low resource system. It appears that your are the one who lacks humor.
92 • Distro .. (by klhrevolution on 2009-07-14 02:33:10 GMT from United States)
Indeed there are a few distro's that have come and gone since I've been around. And there are some that should have gotten more attention but sadly did not..
Oh well next 200 distro's are sure to be a blast!
93 • wattOS (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-14 02:45:19 GMT from United States)
Can anyone tell me the username and password? Obviously this is the first problem with this distro. I am going through the website now to see if I can find it...
94 • wattOS (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-14 02:53:18 GMT from United States)
Leave the "Password" blank and hit enter.
95 • Re: Libranet (by kilgoretrout on 2009-07-14 05:30:19 GMT from United States)
I have to echo the comments in praise of libranet. It was a great distro and occupied a unique place in the history of linux. It was the first debian made easy linux distro and it was masterfully executed. There was knoppix at that time which was debian based but was never really designed to be installed to a hard drive; knoppix focus was livecd. Mepis followed later and stole a lot of libranet's thunder with a free(as in cost) easy to install debian with admin tools. The trend begun by libranet of an easy to use debian ultimately led to ubuntu. Libranet certainly deserves to be remembered for its contributions to the history on linux on the desktop.
96 • @66 - reviews and reviewers (by Vombatus on 2009-07-14 06:08:45 GMT from Australia)
I am sure that Ladislav, Caitlyn and Chris are looking forward to your review or article. They do take user submissions, don't they? Knowing Chris, I am sure they would.
No doubt your review/article will be interesting, worthwhile, grammatically correct, enthralling and accurate.
Still, I suppose it is nice to hear someone with something nice to say about Chris' articles - he does tend to cop a bit of flack for being "Mr Ubuntu"
Oh, and what ever did become of Kororaa (#76)?
97 • Peanut/A-linux (by Archdevil on 2009-07-14 06:42:08 GMT from Netherlands)
I miss Peanut / A-linux. The website still exsists, but is no longer updated. I started using linux with Peanut, because the small size allowed me to download it with my 33k6 modem. Still took me many many hours.
98 • CrunchBang (by Gene Venable on 2009-07-14 08:02:53 GMT from United States)
Just wanted to add that I tried CrunchBang several times because it's getting so much buzz, and though it installed fine, I found it boring and just didn't get its appeal. So, it's gone.
99 • Underwater Gentoo (by YankC on 2009-07-14 08:07:23 GMT from Czech Republic)
I miss the Underwater Gentoo. It required users to perform installation while wearing scuba gear, or an oxygen tank. If time ran out, so did yours (no Slack at all).
100 • first distro (by cgrille on 2009-07-14 08:15:32 GMT from Germany)
My first distro was DLD (based on Slackware and a Kernel 0.9x). But I don't miss it :)
101 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 08:56:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Devil's Advocate...come to think about it...probably yes, E.V.L.
I find on this forum pretty devout GNULinux hobbyists, and, pretty devout advocates of GNLinux as a replacement for MS products.
I have found a preponderance of hobbyists, who, when presented with lists of interesting distros, not in their "comfort zone" for want of a better expression, simply ignore these new distribution releases (and they all are AFAIK) and carry on with discussing "their" particular fancy of the moment...I know...I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.
I have to say also that an article featuring dead distros does not strike me (speaking personally of course) as particularly interesting...I cannot see the relevance of its publication in DistroWatch per se. I take the name DW to mean just that, news and views of upcoming distros.
So, when Golodh, #59, expressed an opinion I happen to agree with, I made remarks in support of his assertion.
I would add also that on DW we are given an excellent "round up" of distros not in the accepted mainstream, and I often find myself a tad dismayed/disappointed that very few people are interested in stuff outside their front door.
102 • Google OS (by Zac on 2009-07-14 09:01:18 GMT from Australia)
I hope that there will be better and more drivers in the Linux kernel as a result.
103 • @101 (by Sean on 2009-07-14 10:00:20 GMT from United States)
It's an integral part of linux history: those failed linux distributions.
That is why the article was too short for my liking, although appreciated. Too short a list of the gone distros and not enoough depth as to why, although that is debatable wrt a couple of them because reasons are given (I love detail when available about things of this nature, moreso than an overview).
Distrowatch Weekly is *exactly* where I'd expect to see analysis of distros no longer appearing on the page hit list or with upcoming release announcments, and of course analysis of those gone before DWW even graced the internet with its presence.
104 • @ 65 JB - TurboLinux (by Tom on 2009-07-14 10:12:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
There seems to be some discrepancies between post 65 and the official wiki page
In such cases i often find "the man on the ground" gives a much fairer story than the history dictated to us by the winners. However there is also the saying that "5 jamaican's seeing the same thing will gives 8 different stories", err i guess that didn't translate well :) Even so there seems to be significant edits required on the wiki page.
105 • various (by Tom on 2009-07-14 11:23:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 79 Eldar V, Wolvix - thanks for the comment :) i hunted around and found you were referring to just another review, not a release but i found it interesting. Again the reviewer gave a screenshot of the old wallpaper rather than the ones in the newer betas.
@ Libranet comments. Arrrgh, again we have lots saying "It was nice" and few saying why, or what features they liked, what they could do with it. To the few that are more insightful - Thanks :)) it adds nicely to Caitlyn's article :)
re 69 by me. Yes it was hypocritical. I say people should have their own views and then complain when they don't have the same opinions as me, and i did it in public too! lol. Thanks Sean @70 for being gentle about slapping my wrist there ;)
I agree that a very few really big names would be a good thing, but that's already happening, particularly in server-markets & on a national level in various countries. I don't think restricting the right of existence to all the other distros would be advantageous even to those few top scorers. In football only 1 or 2 people on a team score the goals, but that doesn't mean we should remove the rest from the field.
@ 81 Google Chrome. Yes the more i look into Chrome the less i like it and the less original it seems. Google seem to be in court about collecting to much info about people surreptitiously and are now offering an online space to keep all your personal files! Hmmm lol. I assume microsquish users are used to all this "invasion of privacy" tho so it might be a good way into linux-land for a lot of people so i still think it's basically a good thing. Especially as it gives us chance to go out into the real world and chat about noob-friendly distros.
@ 101 Forest. I agree but while the forum focusses on hobbyists these are often exactly the right people to glean info from about particular distros, especially the one-offs that vanish but also the regular posters. I often use other aspects of the DistroWatch site in a hunt for answers to questions raised by noobs (often) especially questions in the ubuntu answers forums. At the moment i'm trying to get someone to use the openSUSE forums (openSUSE doesn't work on my main machine & i'm not used to "kernel panic" issues) and i'm also trying to find a good distro for a Pentium 2, 300 MHz, Toshiba T8000. Looking through
it seems quite a few have been discontinued or aren't noob friendly. I do find the regional governments of Spain interesting and their funding of developing an OS specifically focussed at their language and culture is fascinating . In England any attempt at national pride is swiftly hijacked by some very unpleasant people. Anyway, i'm still looking for that Pentium 2, 300 MHz, Toshiba T8000.
Good luck all. Regards from
106 • #101 (by Elder Vintner LaCoste on 2009-07-14 12:21:16 GMT from United States)
"Devil's Advocate...come to think about it...probably yes, E.V.L."
I did say that you seem like a "pretty decent chap".
I don't see a real clear delineation between the hobbyists (please give your definition of a "hobbyist") and those that believe Linux should replace Windows. I am both. I did find the article interesting and useful. It is important to be aware of the historical foundations of things. Maybe someone will read this and go back and take a look at Libranet, or Feather Linux and decide there is something useful there and use it or update it and make it relevant again. I can tell you that I prefer the Feather Linux "look" to any other small distro out there right now. It has a very clean, uncluttered desktop.
You're welcome. It was a very positive review. After the discussion about Mono last week the following quote is very pertinent:
"Its (Wolvix) a Slackware based distro, and in these days of MONO uncertainty and the ever growing popularity of about 4 or 5 of the “big name” distro’s, its nice to break out of the mold and take a look at a lesser known option (sans MONO I hasten to add)."
107 • My Great Miss ... (by Marc on 2009-07-14 12:31:46 GMT from Canada)
A distro called Icepack.
In those days it was one of the easy to install, to configure
and play around.
I think it was from Norway.
108 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 14:18:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Definition of a hobbyist, according to me of course...perhaps best illustrated in comparative terms.
I drive a car, I find it convenient to convey me from place to place, in the absence of public transport. I know how to drive it, I know how to refuel it, I know when it should be maintained by an expert, professional mechanic. I understand the need for insurance, compulsory annual vehicle inspections and road user taxes.
I am aware of what to do in traffic in any given situation because, like millions of others, I have been obliged to pass a test (or tests in some places) to prove my competency to do so, and, like millions of others I have driven, both cars and motor cycles, even a steam roller (legally), in other countries in Europe, as well as Australia, Canada and Africa.
If you will I may be described as a general car user. However, I longer bother, enjoy or need to get involved with car maintenance, repairs or suchlike.
Decades ago I used to strip engines and gearboxes down to the component parts, get the blocks rebored, install new pistons, rings, camshafts, regrind valves, drift in new valve guides, change clutch plates, fit new oilseals, retime ignitions with xenon guns, preload the bevel gears in diffs, change the needle bearings in spider couplings etc, etc, etc.
I would therefore describe that element of driving, outside the professional sphere, as hobbyist, ie. because you have an interest in so doing...some folk go even further and, in addition to the above, are happy to enter their cars/autos in concours exhibitions or speed trials or races.
I have even seen, but don't quite get mind, folk fit their vehicles with rams to get them to "dance", or even heard folk fit their cars with sound systems of almost unbelievable audio output power.
So, that would be my definition of "hobbyist". I would say in addition that the number of general car users in relation to the number of car fans, or petrol heads if you prefer, is orders of magnitude higher...just like in GNULinux.
109 • @51 PCLinusOS and KDE4 (by davecs on 2009-07-14 14:26:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
OK I'm going to switch my language from Geek to my native Cockney:
"For f***'s sake give it a rest!!"
110 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-14 14:36:06 GMT from Canada)
good to see that with texstar back in control - pclinuxos is on track and producing some good releases - texstar did say that later this summer would be a kde4 release.
Lets hope he can get a good management system around him this time and not a load of little hitlers.
keep up the good work Tex
111 • A few points (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-14 14:41:55 GMT from United States)
A pity that I wasn't around for Linux to see all of these distros. I've seen Feather Linux before, and always wanted to see a very light distro like it for a long time (AntiX is very close, though, just bigger). The rest of the names I've seen but never used.
I was introduced to Linux through Slax. I was primarily interested in LiveCD's because I wasn't prepared to overwrite my hard drive. I then tried Wolvix (back when 1.1.0 was fresh!) and then Ubuntu 7.04. After that I just randomly chose distros to test.
I did try the Wolvix Beta. Not bad. A bit unpolished, but if I wanted to use Xfce, I'd use it. I might use Cub once it comes along a bit further.
112 • #111 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-14 15:41:16 GMT from United States)
What window manager do you like to use? The only wm that Wolvix doesn't have is KDE 4. There are "one click install" specialized builds for many other wm's in the repositories.
Sounds like you have been a kind of "Jack of all trades". Driving a steam roller eh? That's a little too slow for me. I used to drive big trucks (eighteen wheelers), for about three years. You can't be to "cocky" in this economy.
#107 Icepack was from Germany.
#105 How much RAM on the Toshiba?
113 • @109 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-14 15:58:42 GMT from United States)
Don't know what 51s problem is but KDE 4 repo is there for PCLOS. More apps are needed to fill it out before an official announcement is made.
114 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 16:55:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Jack of all trades is about right, LOL. Used to be in shortwave re-broadcast engineering for first 20 years of my working life, then started doing what I really wanted to do, LOL. anything I fancied.
You do make a very valid point about not being too "cocky" in this economy...I pity the youngsters who may have studied for several years at uni and cannot find ANY job, let alone in their chosen career.
From our financial press one of the "unlucky" careers is "computing" so to speak. If anyone is interested to know why, crank up the Daily Telegraph Business Section of a few days back.
So as we at least appear to be on topic, I extend that pity to those folk who are hobbyist distros devs who hope to gain a salaried/contractual position with Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu etc etc. I sincerely do.
115 • #112 (by E.V.L. on 2009-07-14 17:09:27 GMT from United States)
Before the spelling police take me away that should read:
You can't be too "cocky" in this economy.
116 • @2 (by john frey on 2009-07-14 17:33:07 GMT from Canada)
I recently went through a variety of multimedia focused distro's because I wanted to do video and audio editing on my 6yr. old laptop.
ArtistX and Ubuntu Studio were nice but too heavy for my old hardware. Dyne:bolic was not so heavy and I liked their philosophy and orientation but it was buggy on my hardware. I would recommend checking it out though.
VA Linux is what I am using now. Uses LXDE so the desktop is light making it speedy. Mostly bug free with some decent configuration tools. All the multimedia apps you can shake a stick at. I need a good implementation of Cinelerra which AV Linux provides. Find it here http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html
I can't help with regards to Wacom support. You will have to experiment probably.
117 • Toshiba (by Tom on 2009-07-14 17:33:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I looked up the specs and found this
So if it's not been upgraded then it's a Pentium 2, 366MHz, 256Mb ram and a 10Gb hard-drive.
Someone sent me an excellent email about this which i'm really tempted to post into here but hopefully he'll do that himself :)
Thanks all, regards from
118 • @115 (by john frey on 2009-07-14 17:35:26 GMT from Canada)
I saw that "to" but I wasn't going to say anything:P
119 • Five Distros (by David at 2009-07-14 17:52:20 GMT from Brazil)
I liked very much the article "Five Great Linux Distributions That Did Not Survive", principally about the incredible Caldera OpenLinux. The author says all that I would to say about this distribution. I'm very grateful to OpenLinux, with this distribution I begin to have success using Linux ten years ago, after tried some other Linux distributions.
120 • #95, Libranet -- let's get the history right (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-14 18:22:45 GMT from United States)
kilgoretrout wrote: It was the first debian made easy linux distro and it was masterfully executed.
Actually, not so. Libranet followed Storm Linux. I think Libranet 1.0 was released in November, 1999. Storm Linux was there a bit earlier. As others have pointed out Libranet was commercial. Storm Linux was free and open.
I am not questioning the quality of Libranet. Clearly people loved the distro and probably with good reason. I just have never been big on commerical, pay to play distros which is probably why I never tried it and couldn't include it in the article.
121 • re 117 some sugestions for Tom (by Paul Yearwood on 2009-07-14 18:29:33 GMT from United States)
I responded to Tom personally for his Toshiba. Didn't realise this was such a common question. He asked if I would post my suggestions to him on this board. I would like to add that DesktopBSD would also be worth a try. I had it for my main computer. I need more hard drives for all the distros I like to use.
I too have read the Crunch Bang warning. They just post in bold fonts what nearly all other distros hide in the fine print.
Hope you don't mind me contacting you directly regarding your Distrowatch posting.
I have a Compaq Presario that has a PII 400 with 312 Meg of RAM. I have use several "small" distros on it.
I have used PuppyOS Live. It flies when it is loaded entirely into RAM. I can mount all drives, HDD and USB, It also has the advantage of being the only safe way against malware. Being Read-Only, nothing can take over your computer. If only Windows had a way of making a live CD, a lot of botnets would not be possible.
Another I used is Debris which is a mini Ubuntu version. It is live and installable. Warning: The stable version is, I believe, based on Ubuntu 7.04 which is no longer being supported up stream. (The newer version 1.8.3 is based on U. 8.04.) I liked it but by the time I added back in the features I wanted like Open Office instead of Abiword and since it was not updatable (ver 1.04), I just re-installed full size Ubuntu. I now have Debris 1.9.x on a 4 Gig harddrive as a backup for my main system.
I currently have VectorLinux 6 on the Compaq. It is a full size distro but it has ALSAconf utility that allows me to use the onboard audio, something that Ubuntu does not have. There is an elaberate CLI script that I can use but having ALSAconf is easer. It works fairly decently with the PII 400 and the 312 Meg RAM. Be sure to get the Version 6 Vector as it has an improved graphic installer, but you can choose the text based, if you like a challenge.
One piece of information you did not mention was the size of the hard drive on your Toshiba. The Compaq is 8Gig with 3.5 Gig currently free using the Vector. The Debris 1.8.3 on the 4 Gig has about half left. I'm not using that at present so I can not give an exact reading but the CD image is 185.5 MB. It is also a live CD.
VectorLinux 5.9 (added to original email to Tom) also comes in a 64 bit ISO, so I have it on a separate HDD for my main system, a Celeron 430 1.6 GHZ with 2Gig RAM. As far as I can tell, there is some but not that major difference in performance between the old 1998 Compaq and the home built Celeron Shuttle using the same version but 32 bit on the old and 64 bit on the new.
Hope this will give you some ideas on what you can use on your Toshiba.
122 • VectorLinux 6 for the Tecra T8000 (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-14 18:35:00 GMT from United States)
My recommendation would be slightly different than Paul's. The text based installer may not be pretty but it goes through exactly the same steps as the GUI installer. Unless you have a real aversion to an ncurses-based installer I'd go with Vector Linux Light 6.0. Smaller/lighter apps and an IceWM or JWM based desktop will run faster on a 336MHz processor and 256MB of RAM than the Standard version with either Xfce or LXDE. Everything in the VL repository will be available if you must have any heavier apps. I'd go with the Light version on a machine with those specs.
123 • Another one that misses Libranet ... (by Benjamin Quest on 2009-07-14 18:39:37 GMT from Germany)
... Libranet was one of the few Distros that you had to pay for. Libranet was also one of the rare Distros you pay for that were worth every single dime.
As for the combination of ease of use, stability and completeness I do not see an alternative even today.
I'll keep my copy like a treasure ...
124 • Libranet not completely commercial (by PCBSDuser on 2009-07-14 19:05:09 GMT from Canada)
You paid if you wanted the newest release. The previous release, usually about a year old, was free.
125 • Gone but not forgotton (by James Ray Kenney on 2009-07-14 19:08:38 GMT from United States)
You forgot SLS Linux!!!
That was my the first Linux that I could actually get to install!
I think it was on 30 or so floppies!!!
126 • Eh?! (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-14 19:10:45 GMT from United States)
@112: I used Xfce, which was installed by default. Why would I add something else?
I downloaded Austrumi and Vector Linux full last night. We shall see how they go.
127 • @ 12 Paul (by Tom on 2009-07-14 19:12:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks Paul :)
128 • Gone but not forgotton(except I did!) (by James Ray Kenney on 2009-07-14 19:15:10 GMT from United States)
I forgot to mention one of the old time biggies.
I never did learn how to pronounce it though!
129 • Not included does not mean forgotten (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-14 19:26:17 GMT from United States)
I didn't forget either Yggdrasil or SLS (Soft Landing Systems). SLS' main claim to fame is that it spawned Slackware. I never used it so I don't know if it was any good or not. I did try Slackware fairly early on, though.
When I bought my first copy of Red Hat in a software store in San Francisco in 1995 they had two other distros: Slackware and Yggdrasil. Yggdrasil came in a zip-lock back IIRC :) I never did try it and it died shortly thereafter.
As I pointed out right at the beginning of the article this was drawn entirely from my personal experience. I knew from the outset that there were other distros that were worthwhile but I couldn't cover ones I didn't try and there is a limit to how much I wanted to cover. I did think about including Peanut Linux, for example. In the end I decided five was enough to get a DWW feature article of the usual length.
130 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 19:48:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
131 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-14 19:51:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
i would not dream of correcting your grammar...and just because we may not agree on every point...just remember a "decent chap" knows a typo when he sees one.
132 • Libranet (by oithona on 2009-07-14 20:16:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
123: "... Libranet was one of the few Distros that you had to pay for. Libranet was also one of the rare Distros you pay for that were worth every single dime."
43: "It's kind of interesting that noone up to now tried to re-create adminmenu"
Well I didn't try to recreate it (I'm not a good enough programmer) but it did inspire me :) - http://wolvix.oithona.com/wcp.html
133 • SLS and others. (by A. Person on 2009-07-14 21:03:26 GMT from United States)
My intorduction to Linux was with SLS. There were 40 floppies in the distro. It was rather crude. Next up came Slackware, weighing in at 60 floppies. (I wish I had kept all the floppies in both distros!) Compare to SLS, Slacware was far more polished.
At a later time, I tried Storm Linux as well as IcePack. I totally forgot about the latter until someone mentioned it in an email.
I found Libranet far easier to use than Storm Linux. During its life, it became my distro of choice. With its demise, I returned to Slackware until about two years ago. At that time I switched to Arch where I remain today. I like distros where I decide what I want to have installed.
134 • #126 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-14 21:48:14 GMT from United States)
Is your question rhetorical or would you like an answer? It seems from the context of your remark that you don't understand why anyone would want to install another window manager. Either that, or you do understand why but don't find the reasons compelling. If you are just trying to emphasize the aforementioned point with a rhetorical question I won't waste time (your's, mine, other readers) with any further response.
A decent chap and a gentleman to boot. :)
135 • another good review :) (by Tom on 2009-07-14 22:08:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
Post 127 was meant to refer to 121 (not 12) but i was too hasty, thanks again :)
Also thanks Caitlyn for 122 :)
Grammar, sometimes adverts warn "just like your grammar used to make" but my grammar's scones inspired Terry Pratchet's "Dwarf bread"
136 • dead vs inactive (by Jerry on 2009-07-14 23:37:21 GMT from United States)
I'm wondering at what point the "this distro is active" gets changed to inactive here at distrowatch.
I was going down the list and looking at the pages for the ones near the bottom mainly and I noticed that some have not submitted releases for two years or more, and many for well over one year.
(I don't want to name distros because then I'll get accused of bashing those in particular which I am not doing)
One I went to their web page and there has been no activity there since February of 2008.
137 • Discontinued Distro's (by gabbman on 2009-07-15 00:28:43 GMT from Canada)
I miss in order of personal preference,
It would be fun to do a Distro's that SHOULD be Discontinued, that would up the post count on the Reader's Comments. :)
Another good DW Weekly thanks.
138 • re#136 (by hab on 2009-07-15 00:31:14 GMT from Canada)
Guess this would be evolution in action. A distro that garners the attention indicated (feb 2008 ? ) was probably not going to succeed in the first place.
What we are really talking about is the nebulous concept of "mindshare". An interesting intersection of advertising, hyperbole, reviews, buzz and whatever else you want to throw in the pot.
Truly evolution in action. The distro diversity has never troubled me in the slightest. I've been able to take a step back and be at peace simply running linux. Almost any linux. DE's or window managers don't really matter much either. So much freedom!:-)
139 • On Caldera devolopers (by Luis Sanchez on 2009-07-15 01:15:58 GMT from Mexico)
I have to agree that Caldera was hands down the distrubution that paved the way for desktop Linux. It was stable, easy to use and offered full functionality on a level that I had never experienced before to that date.
Do anyone knows what happened to the talented team of devolopers who created such a great distro after the idiots of management destroyed it?
140 • kondara linux (by barney67 on 2009-07-15 02:12:41 GMT from France)
kondara linux , somebody remember this fast japanese linux
141 • five that didnt (by hardy stevenson on 2009-07-15 03:41:32 GMT from United States)
I like to think of Beos (Be) as an advanced port of Linux.
Be was too far ahead of its time. Be was free and Lord
only knows wot Be came of Haiku....Be was too far a head.
142 • linux keeps winning! (by hab on 2009-07-15 03:52:00 GMT from Canada)
High profile win, US postal service switching their tracking system from sun to hp/linux.
Cost savings are said to be significant (surprise surprise)! Very slightly more here: http://ostatic.com/blog/u-s-postal-service-gives-stamp-of-approval-to-foss
143 • The New Sidux is Out! (by Chris H on 2009-07-15 04:21:38 GMT from United States)
144 • hp-linux (by Tom on 2009-07-15 07:11:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I thought hp had discontinued their hp-linux? Typical of such organisations to choose something that's already dead and when the shift fails linux as a whole will take a knock for being unreliable. If they had chosen Win98 Server Edition then people would recognise the bad decision and laugh at management rather than the OS but because it's linux we can expect to fall foul of this - unless they can be quickly and easily migrated again nto something more modern that works, such as RedHat
145 • Sidux (by mika480 on 2009-07-15 08:29:59 GMT from Italy)
Oh Happy Daayyyy
Sidux Aether is out...
146 • No subject (by Bernice Wagenfurther on 2009-07-15 10:14:41 GMT from Germany)
@#48: "... It was later sold to the japanese and disappeared."
*the Japanese*? Moron.
147 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-15 12:43:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Chuckle time. It seems MS IS concerned about ChromeOS...but Ballmer has a rep for bad calls...see his remark about Apple kit:
148 • re#146 (by hab on 2009-07-15 12:54:48 GMT from Canada)
The resident speeling nazi shows up. And from Germany no less. Wow, i'm honoured!
149 • Linux Mint (by McLove'In on 2009-07-15 14:44:04 GMT from United States)
Hey I'm not meaning to be mean or call someones work inferior or useless, and i appreciate there work and all.... , but don't you think linux mint is just glorified ubuntu ? with a few extra tools that are more like toys? I Mean if ubuntu could include that stuff by default (codecs /proprietary drivers) i think there would be no use for mint!, and the fact it's treated as a totally different distribution upsets me because there just ripping off ubuntu and adding a pretty theme doesn't strike me as grounds for a new distro just as many other Off shot projects like iMagicOS(TM)
Well at least Mint Doesn't try to make lots of money off others work like iMagicOS(TM) Does! Shame on you IMagic! I Think i'm gonna rip off ubuntu and make a pretty theme install codecs/drivers and good apps and call it "This Isn't Ubuntu, It's My own os" or something! (JK)
150 • Wow #149! (by JD on 2009-07-15 14:46:19 GMT from United States)
I Was Thinking The Same Thing!
151 • re: 146 & 148, 141 (by Paul Yearwood on 2009-07-15 14:55:16 GMT from United States)
It is only proper to capitalize the name of a nation or the citizens of that country. Actually, Nazi should be capitalized also, even with the bad connotations, because it is the name of a political party. To trivialize the name would trivialize the evil done in its name. Also, it is the approved way in the Associated Press Stylebook.
I found Haiku as a virtual machine available through Moka5.com,
152 • Hey Now (by Fransisco on 2009-07-15 14:57:28 GMT from United States)
I Miss Libranet Linux! They should bring it back!
and dang right #149 and 150!
153 • Haiku (by Carlos Angel on 2009-07-15 15:03:39 GMT from United States)
Here is the link to Haiku:
154 • @149 (by Sean on 2009-07-15 15:51:48 GMT from United States)
To quote, with a slight variation:
"but don't you think (fill in with forked distro of choice) is just glorified (fill in with parent distro of choice) with a few extra tools that are more like toys?"
155 • #154 (by Albert Hall on 2009-07-15 16:17:18 GMT from United States)
I agree with 149. It is so easy to install things in Ubuntu. With Jaunty you just click on the question mark on the top panel and it takes you to a web page that has links that download and install all the codecs and whatever you might need. If you don't prefer Gnome it tells you how to install KDE 4 and gives you the link to the repository...click, click, click...simple, simple, simple...I think you should make your own version. Why not call it "Duhbuntu" (for the clickically impaired.)
#153 We don't need links posted here that link to useless information. There is nothing to download there, it is just the Haiku website.
156 • @155 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-15 16:29:50 GMT from United States)
"Duhbuntu!" hahaha So easy a caveman could use it.
157 • @156 (by Clem the Caveman on 2009-07-15 16:43:15 GMT from United States)
158 • @155 (by stuckinoregon on 2009-07-15 17:24:47 GMT from United States)
No. It is the Haiku download page and the VM images in question are there. He was correct.
159 • #149 ripoff (by Xtyn on 2009-07-15 17:58:25 GMT from Romania)
There is no "ripoff" in the GPL world. People just build on each other, they don't need to reinvent the wheel although they sometimes do.
If you say Mint is a "ripoff" of Ubuntu, isn't Ubuntu a "ripoff" of Debian? :)
I just like to use "the real thing". Why use a Debian based distro when you can use Debian? Why use a Slackware based distro when you can use Slackware? The same goes for Red Hat, Gentoo etc.
It's true, not everyone can use "the real thing" because sometimes it's difficult.
That's when distro's like Ubuntu come in, make it easier.
160 • agree with Xtyn (by Sean on 2009-07-15 18:37:23 GMT from United States)
That was my point in 154. ;o)
161 • In the debate about best distros (by Joey Chan on 2009-07-15 18:49:14 GMT from United States)
One thing which comes to mind when I "debate" with myself about the best distro I've had over time is that often the one I felt was "it" would break or at least change after a while. Usually following updates or an upgrade.
The distro would then be replaced if I could not fire it up with confidence that it was 100% for my uses.
Sometimes it would just be a niggling little thing like one program not working quite right and being unable to fix it after searching forums and other sources.
So, lots of distros got downloaded and installed since 1996. :)
My and another user here have settled on Sabayon 4.2. For now we would not think of changing because it is absolutely solid from one end to the other, for our uses.
But we do recall problems with earlier Sabayons causing us to head for PCLinuxOS, which worked for a while until an upgrade, then others. Now we're here on Sabayon again.
Great, vast and varied linux world allows for this "hopping" around and getting to know many and even going back to newer versions of previously failed ones.
I'm keeping my mind open on the "best linux distro" issue. :)
162 • A couple of minor/community releases some might find interesting (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-15 18:50:52 GMT from United States)
Community releases (not official releases) and some minor releases don't make it to the front page news on DistroWatch but here are a couple I found interesting. For those who like Mandriva:
Mandriva MLO 2009.1 LiveCD
(Yes, I translated the announcement but I have no association with Mandriva or this community respin.)
For those who like mini distros and/or Slackware derivatives, there is a new version of Austrumi out:
I just thought some here would like to know.
163 • Eco Linux (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-15 20:56:43 GMT from United States)
Here's another Ubuntu derivative that claims to be for older computers. I think it is Japanese only.
164 • Chromium browser (by Juggle on 2009-07-15 21:27:13 GMT from N/A)
Has anyone tried Google's Chromium browser yet? It's in beta and so far...wow...it is fast!
Whereas Firefox takes about 2-3 seconds to start, if you blink, you might miss Chromium appearing on your desktop. Pages load faster than FF too. Granted, all the bells and whistles haven't been added yet, which might slow things down, but I'm impressed and it might be my new browser of choice.
Here's a link to the beta .deb's for Debian based systems.
165 • Ref#164 Chrome (by Anonymous on 2009-07-15 22:08:12 GMT from United States)
Thank you Juggle ! I've been following the builds of Chrome for Linux ever since I found the links. I didn't know it is now in beta. Will have to test it out. And yes, even in Windows, Chrome is much faster than Firefox.
166 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-15 23:00:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
A bit more on Mono v Java for those interested:
167 • Google Chrome (by Billy Gateless on 2009-07-16 06:15:21 GMT from United States)
I just started using Chrome. Wow! Very impressed. Works very fast, as it does under Windows. Much faster than Firefox. This may very well replace Firefox under Linux Ubuntu. It has already under Windows. WhoYa!
168 • re#148 (by SpeelingNazi on 2009-07-16 07:57:30 GMT from Germany)
Did it even occur to you that #146 didn't mean the speeling ;)?
Let's read your sentence again: "It was later sold to the japanese and disappeared."
Still don't feel moronic? Ah, well...
169 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-16 08:50:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good ole Steve again...and ref his last comment in the copy...cos probably, Steve, they can.
Note the Amazon thing...only comparisons...no actual numbers...no doubt Bill Gates's plastic has a heat sink...
170 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-16 08:57:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re Turbolinux thread, this might be of interest...
171 • ZdNet (by Tom on 2009-07-16 09:25:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mostly comments in here are well reasoned, intelligent observations rather than personal attacks so it would be great to see a few of you posting pro-Linux comments in ZdNet where there is currently a whole load of nonsense being spouted. Today would be an especially good day to get out there and get your favourite distros noticed in the mainstream press
I think today is special microsquish day or something. Note that ZdNet posts put the first 2 or 3 lines you write as a headline which lasts until someone else posts a comment.
Good luck and lets get linux out there ;)
172 • post 171 (by Joey Chan on 2009-07-16 10:22:46 GMT from United States)
I'm sure you'll get some cooperation from some here, Tom.
But not from those of us who use (and like just fine) Windows operating systems as well as linux distros.
The linux vs Windows war may be a marketing one and it may be another type of war, too, in the minds of many users, but to some it is not much of a war about which is best; they both do the job and my guess is there are more Windows users here than would ever admit it in this distrowatch forum because www.distrowatch.com is about non-Windows products ("Linux, BSD" it says at the top).
173 • Sidux (by mika480 on 2009-07-16 10:26:28 GMT from Italy)
One day with new sidux aether....fantastic!
I previously complain about logos and graphics...
So beautifull and fast
Give sidux a try!
174 • Windows (by Tom on 2009-07-16 10:40:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes i use it too. There's no problem as long as you accept that security isn't it's top feature and make allowances for that. The problem in the ZdNet forums is that even the pro-Linux posts are often very inaccurate at best but also often lack wisdom - as such they show linux in a very bad light and quickly degenerate into personal attacks and not even as clever as the dumbest ones in here. lol
175 • post 174 (by Joey Chan on 2009-07-16 13:28:08 GMT from United States)
I'm curious based on your words here about what's over there at the zdnet forums so I'll follow the links you provided, Tom.
Maybe something new is being said. ;)
176 • ZDNet (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-16 13:50:38 GMT from United States)
No disparaging the content on the website, but ZDNet is filled with absolutely illogically anti-Linux users and Microsoft astroturfing. It's almost depressing to read at times.
177 • ZDNet Forums (by Joey Chan on 2009-07-16 14:06:15 GMT from United States)
Well that was a trip down Memory Lane (the Memory Lane once known as Usenet or just plain Newsgroups, now "Google Groups").
It can get like that a little bit in here during discussions about various distros, too.
But in the ZDNet Forums they seem to be allowed to be caustic toward one another. I've avoided places like that since the entertainment value of them wore off for me several years ago. It's better here. Plus much much less discussion of Windows.
178 • sidux? (by Tom on 2009-07-16 14:44:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Oh, i'm finding ZdNet quite entertaining, especially the personal attacks on me where they "shoot themselves in the foot" and simultaneously prove the point that my post tried to make but didn't express adequately. It's not depressing, it's laughable.
Anyway, back to issues that really matter, how is Sidux sizing up? Has anyone taken it for a quick spin? We've not heard much about Parsix nor Extix and it's been ages since anyone talked about kongoni or WattOS?
179 • re#168 & windows users (by hab on 2009-07-16 15:03:49 GMT from Canada)
Your witless and idiotic attempt at an ad hominem attack scores you no points. Apparently something i said troubles YOU deeply and the only way that you can deal with it is by attacking me personally and not the argument! Maybe a time out and a sit in the corner is required? Oh and maybe comments more directly linux related might be more appropriate.
I would expect that dw is being visited by a significant number of win users and that some of the comments come from them. Kind of a look in the window and perhaps a toe in the door. Many people dual boot lin and win. Or mac and lin and win.
Anyhow this community posting here gives, i think, a fairly gentle intro to linux. The range of knowledge and experience demonstrated here is broad and deep. Probably about what i would look for as a beginner.
I find zdnet linux related comments often to be hilariously ridiculous. Great comedy relief.
180 • #178 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-16 15:39:04 GMT from United States)
I am curious. Isn't Sidux unstable? Is it meant to be used as an everyday operating system?
I did try wattOS. I like the idea but I just don't think a Debian based distro is the way to go for older hardware. Also the browser kept crashing for some reason on the live cd. I did not try it with a full install.
Actually the only two distros that work consistently on really old hardware are Puppy and DSL. I just installed Puppy-Opera on my old machine. It is running nicely. You can't expect consistent quality with the Puplets (which is part of the problem with Puppy) but Opera is a good one.
181 • Sidux ...stable? (by mika480 on 2009-07-16 15:45:08 GMT from Italy)
Haven't had any issue so far....
it's rock solid,
just give sidux a try,You can always go back.
182 • Kongoni, Sidux, KDE Mint, Sabayon KDE (by elcaset of Kenmore on 2009-07-16 15:46:43 GMT from United States)
I will try Kongoni soon. The recent KDE version of Linux Mint & Sabayon KDE are very good. I've been using them as my 2 main distros. I also really like kademar (K-DEMar), but I doesn't seem to like being used from North America (repository problems if I remember correctly).
Mika480 (173) tried the new Sidux & loves it. I would, too, if Sidux would put out a live DVD with KDE4 & libdvdcss included & working.
183 • Re 180 sidux (by Sertse on 2009-07-16 15:53:05 GMT from Australia)
The entire existence of sidux is to make debian sid safe enough to use as a everyday operating system. They do this by having an extensive team and community monitoring changes in sid, and figuring out workarounds if issues do occur and they have a repo to provide rapid fixes any major show stopping bugs.
The sidux manual describes it more thoroughly: http://manual.sidux.com/en/welcome-en.htm
sid itself, isn't truly that unstable most of the time: Most code and packaging are usually done well afterall - have some faith in the guys behind making your favourite apps, they're not always making mistakes! ;)
184 • Re; ZdNET (by Alan UK on 2009-07-16 16:12:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
I used to read it but to me, it always seemed to be the slowest loading site on the web.
185 • #183 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-16 16:32:15 GMT from United States)
"Most code and packaging are usually done well afterall - have some faith in the guys behind making your favourite apps, they're not always making mistakes! ;)"
Lol, I certainly wasn't meaning to suggest anything of the sort, I just was wondering about it. Thanks for the explaination, I will give it a try.
186 • ChromeOS, segueing into Ecolinux. (by forest on 2009-07-16 16:56:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sounds like yet another rubbishing attempt by MS...well thank you Sonja, carry on like that and you should try palmistry instead...with about the same accuracy.
EVL, thanks for the nod at Ecolinux: wearing my hobbyist hat I rootled around in their hideout and found that if you squinted, quite hard, at the screen shots, you could just make out an attempt at dual language instructions.
I only looked harder cos I could just see the terminal stuff was in English. It seems they have a matey called Nathan who is a bit of a brainy bloke and he is doing the English version.
I have to say I am particularly fond of the Japanese distros cos of the layout pictures...I did say earlier i found the packagey stuff a bit dry...and I particularly liked the look of Berry but it would not run even as live on my older machine. Which reminds me I have the latest Berry on media somewhere and have now got a faster machine to boot (pun intended...).
(Just by the by, Berry features plenty of...berries...or pics thereof, together with pics of leaves. To my surprise I saw one leaf bore a remarkable resemblance to a very popular (in UK anyway) shrub...which despite it being illegal is still extremely popular with hot house growers, who are so fond of said shrub they fill their entire house with them...even to the extent of growing them in the loft/attic...such dedication to horticulture seldom goes unrewarded...in fact the Constabulary goes to some lengths to root out (yet another groan) these sons of the soil...and on occasion the lucky few are rewarded by being allowed to grow stuff to their hearts content in larger surroundings, usually under lock and key owing to the other plants they are allowed to grow being so scarce...)
187 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-16 16:59:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Oops, ref 186...all that waxing lyrical and I forgot the link, blush...
I very nearly, almost, strayed off topic there for a minute.
188 • AHHH (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-16 19:26:18 GMT from United States)
oh no ubuntu had a new release ahhh they keep on getting on the front page of this website Ubuntnu is so stupid and terrible their ruining linux desktops evrywher WHAT IS THIS I DONT EVEN
There you go, Ubuntu haters. I already posted your outrage for you!
I would still be using 8.04 LTS (this new release is just bug fixes, nothing new) if it worked with any Wi-Fi chip in the house. But it doesn't, so I don't. And I am starting to love 9.04, at the loss of all of the ISO's i have saved on my portable hard drive.
9.10 Alpha 4 will be coming out in August sometime, which is when the fun really starts.
189 • @188 (by stuckinoregon on 2009-07-16 22:06:08 GMT from United States)
Yeah, if only that would suffice. You know they're coming. It just never gets old. :-|
190 • #187 (by MaryJane Potter on 2009-07-16 23:56:08 GMT from United States)
Whoa dude, I don't know what you're talkin' about but I think I just caught a "buzz".
191 • ChromeOS (by dedguy on 2009-07-17 00:32:22 GMT from United States)
Googles new operating system for netbooks is sounding a lot like gOS "Cloud" OS. And considering the number of people that currently work @ gOS that previously worked @ Google, I'm wondering out loud if Google bought them out, or shut them out of their idea.
192 • Libranet?!? (by John Schutte on 2009-07-17 03:01:39 GMT from United States)
I would have put Libranet Linux on that list, probably #2 or #3, since it was the easiest to use Debian Distro of its time, and very powerful to boot. Until the project's discontinuation, I never had a single install of Libranet break. In fact, the longest running PC (without reboot/crash) was just under 1 year (which for me is amazing, I'm a tinkerer) was running libranet.
193 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-17 08:42:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
It's quite a tricky question about some devs getting shut out of their ideas.
IF part of the ethos of open source is about sharing code, and by association I suppose, ideas...then it begs the question of whether anyone is being shut out.
From what we read on occasion about the Uxxs, depending on code from other sources, you could argue the same about Canonical. In fact some folk get quite irate that Uxx appears, repeat appears, to be leader of the pack, so to speak, making silly claims that Canonical just "steals" other people's work.
I am under the impression that is how GNULinx is suppose to evolve...but not using the "stealing" word. Curiously, nobody considers all the Uxx clones as "stealing" Canonical's work...they object on the specious grounds that there is too much Uxx influence.
How could that notion possibly be true? Nobody believes for an instant Mark S insists that every new distro project be based on Uxx. A dev uses Canonical/Uxx code because it's pretty reliable, for most of us, and is very well supported.
So as for getting shutout of a free idea, It would not be possible, and, Google are to release "their" code in a short while for anybody to do what they wish. AFAIK there would be no bar to anyone incorporating that code and writing an entirely separate distro.
If some folk are in the GNULinux code writing game for personal kudos, simply write your own distro and submit it to DW for publication a few months later...but if it IS really good, then by definition be prepared for somebody else improving on "your" code soon after.
194 • *buntu (by Tom on 2009-07-17 11:37:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
It's odd how a huge number of people complain that linux has too much variety and 'lacks' a single clear leader which 'obviously' means that linux has no chance of competing in the desktop market. At the same time quite a lot of people resent Ubuntu being such a clear leader! This 2nd bunch of people do seem to me to have a much more valid point although i disagree with much of it. As an aside i find it interesting that people don't seem to want a lack of variety of hardware or fruit or clothing lol
195 • Good job, Jeremie ! (by Caraibes on 2009-07-17 11:47:13 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Congrats for making a Christian repo for Ubuntu ! I will install it on my Ubuntu partition, in spite of being mostly100% on CentOS those days...
196 • Tom's #194 (by Sean on 2009-07-17 13:16:25 GMT from United States)
Not so "odd," Tom. :o)
I was looking at an automotive forum for the first time in a while yesterday and I found myself grinning at the comments there. I swear I could have replaced "Ubuntu" with "Toyota" and "Fedora" with "Chevy," ad infinitum.
It's the same thing; just people aligning themselves with a belief system, sticking to that belief system and defending it tooth and nail. Same mix as here.
197 • re#196 holy wars (by hab on 2009-07-17 13:43:55 GMT from Canada)
Yeah, and motorcycles (i love the old brit stuff, triumph, bsa, norton etc.) and videogame systems and bicycles and and cooking methods and hand tools and on and on and on.........................................and on!
198 • #196 (For what it's worth...) (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-17 14:41:26 GMT from United States)
So true. It seems to be human nature to want to avoid change and stick to the familiar. Attachment to ideas (and things for that matter) is a real problem for us humans. It doesn't seem to matter how antiquated, illogical, or just plain wrong it (an idea) is. I used to run into this situation every time I installed an update to users workstations where the gui was a bit different than before (reference KDE 3 vs. KDE 4 debate). Oh the screaming, crying, and gnashing of teeth would have made you think something horrible was happening. I am not exempt, I decided a while ago that I didn't like Ubuntu. Then our friend Tom here said something that led me to give it another try and now I am hooked (I am however not without mixed feelings. I wish Debian would include better support for older machines but I guess that's what Slackware is for.) So there it is. Awareness seems to be the key to this condition. If we are at least aware of the fact that we have a natural inclination to gravitate toward the safe and familiar then perhaps we can better assess ourselves in relation to change, new things, and ideas.
199 • #195 Ubuntu religious edition (by Xtyn on 2009-07-17 15:14:42 GMT from Romania)
Maybe there should be an atheist edition too. :))
...or a Flying Spaghetti Monster edition...
RAmen. May you be touched by his noodly appendage.
200 • re#199 holy wars II (by hab on 2009-07-17 15:42:56 GMT from Canada)
Budbuntu, the Buddhist edition.
Should satisfy the a-theists.
Prolly fool the other Bud crowd too ;-)!
201 • Linux and religion (by Xtyn on 2009-07-17 15:44:31 GMT from Romania)
I just remembered that Slackware has a "religious" name.
The "slack" in Slackware is a reference to the term "slack" as used by the Church of the SubGenius.
202 • Christian Flavored Distros (by beany on 2009-07-17 16:10:12 GMT from United States)
Do the computers blesssed with Christan distros automatically go into suspend or shutdown on Sunday?
203 • re#202 (by hab on 2009-07-17 16:20:39 GMT from Canada)
No but religious holidays can be a real bitch depending on your affiliation!
204 • @199 atheist ubuntu (by Sean on 2009-07-17 18:52:21 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu has at least one creator.
205 • Moslem Edition (by Tom on 2009-07-17 20:19:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Does anyone know if the Ubuntu Moslem Edition has had a name change or where i could access it? Huge apols to EV, it looks like i switched you the wrong way around - the idea was to move from Ubuntu towards Slackware (preferably Wolvix) not towards Ubuntu lol, sorry about that.
206 • Heh (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-17 20:28:12 GMT from United States)
@204: Ubuntu evolved into existence. I started out as a tiny little kernel, but then it wandered out of the prehistorical soup and sprouted legs and a GUI!
@205: I's now called Sabily. Though it certainly didn't help that it's spelled "Muslim."
@Everybody: OMG THIS SITE IS UBUNTUWATCH EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVEN'T HAD A STORY ON UBUNTU IN A MONTH
207 • vowels (by Tom on 2009-07-17 20:45:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
In Omani arabic i thought there were no vowels? But obviously in english vowels are vital so they need to be added, and with txtng (& shorthand) need 2 b rmvd agin. Sighs, yes it's been a good 2 weeks with minimal U's but here we go, back to normality :(
208 • ah.. God's "tiny little kernel" (by Sean on 2009-07-17 20:57:21 GMT from United States)
209 • Ubuntu CE (by Miq on 2009-07-17 21:19:29 GMT from Sweden)
Ubuntu is on the front page and the usual reactions occur. Now, some here knows that I am not an Ubuntu fan, and even dislike it for several reasons, which arent important right now. However, all proper Linux distros deserve to be mentioned and as for 'Bunto, especially the LTS releases are a big deal. Ubuntu should have the same prominent front page place as all other distros.
It is less obvious however that the DE remixes of Ubuntu are proper distros and as such deserving of a full front page slot. After Ubuntu the front page is inundated (infected?) by K and X and whatever. If they must be mentioned a mini-slot or an update in the Ubuntu slot should be enough.
Much more controversial still are the religious pre-installs. These are NOT distros and do NOT deserve a front page high light. Christian, Muslem or whatever edition! They are the vanilla offering with just some pre-installs, that probably hardly even qualify for a meta-package.
Also, there is the equality and ethical issues to consider. All distros should be treated the same, the front page should by principle not be manipulable by spawning questionable remixes, and who is to decide which religious packages deserve mentioning and which are banned (in previous issues the word "censored" was used).
210 • Pardus is released (by Chris H on 2009-07-17 21:23:10 GMT from United States)
I've just downloaded it
It's a slick kde 4
provided free by the government of Turkey.
211 • Mint impresses another (by Mandy Morris on 2009-07-17 22:33:34 GMT from United States)
Hello again from a new linux distribution user: mint.
Yesterday my friend saw this for the first time on my old pc and he said he never saw this old computer work so well after using it for music and a short movie. We use rythmbox and movie player and works very well and not jerky and slow like trying in windows XP.
Now he wants the new mint for his older thinkpad. I'll put a post in here how that goes he will do that this week end sometime.
TC everybody (and don't worry about religion versions of linux because that brings more people to linux). :)
212 • LiveCd & Balance (by Tom on 2009-07-17 22:46:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mandy, it's worth trying that Mint as a LiveCd first before going through the full dual-boot install - otherwise there's some danger of it all ending in tears. An older machine might be better with a different distro. Definitely is worth trying a LiveCd of Mint first before worrying about that tho :)
Balance, i think if there's an edition for one religion then there should be one for other religions. Oh, there is lol ;) All's good then :)
213 • Linux's profile about to be raised. (by hab on 2009-07-20 04:29:39 GMT from Canada)
Close of business July 24 and Redhat becomes part of the S&P 500.
Gory details here: http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1612209.html
Rather high profile for linux.
The times they are a changin'!
214 • Dohh (by Tom on 2009-07-20 05:03:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
Dohh, i guess now is the time to invest a bit of cash into Cannonical & RedHat shares, any other such organisations? I can't believe i missed this. Oh yeh, i'm skint - that's probably why. lol
215 • sidux 2009.02 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-20 09:37:45 GMT from United States)
sidux 2009.02 is a great release, but I accidentally stumbled across a bunch of sparks flying over at their forums. Checking out the Tech Patterns site where smxi, the outstanding script lives, you might find some interesting discussions about recent happenings over at sidux, where IRC channels have been censored, and smxi has been banished to the Archives (and who knows, maybe removed from the site entirely). Just mention those words and you are likely to get censored.
Reminds me of the thirties and forties, but I'll say no more...
Does it remind you at all of Kanotix though?
216 • Dw Readers improvements (by Tom on 2009-07-20 12:21:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
I definitely miss this place over the weekend. There didn't used to be many in here then but it was fun. I think Readers Comments has improved a lot in last few weeks. Many more people are posting mini-reviews and almost full articles on distros - i can think of a couple of posts that would have been good to see on somewhere like
or elsewhere in the press :)
Anyway, thanks all for another great week, special regards for Ladislav, Chris Smart and Caitlyn :)
Good luck and regards from
217 • Pardus (by Sertse on 2009-07-20 12:33:43 GMT from Australia)
Wow, I didn't think my other post would get deleted. It wasn't inflammatory, just an observation and a curiosity....
Anyways, idea for a future DWW, I think it would be worthwhile to interview someone from Pardus. It would be interesting to hear the views of a dev who's project engages so closely with their Govt depts. (Though a clarification; The Turkish Govt has no "direct" influence on Pardus, though the body behind the Pardus Project is an research institute which itself is linked to a Turkish Govt dept.)
Pardus is a especially good candidate since, unlike other govt/country/county/city etc distros, it already a mature project with several releases already, with proper structures in place, and through it's main intention was to create an FLOSS OS for Turkey, it also has an impact with the wider linux community, demonstrated by getting reviews from mainstream linux sites and users, like any other distro.
Not to mention they just made a major release. ;)
218 • #217 (by Elder V. LaCoste on 2009-07-20 13:50:01 GMT from United States)
These comments will probably all get wiped off in a few minutes anyway to make way for the new week. I just tried Pardus 2009 and it is very pretty with KDE 4 and all. I would have to guess that it is Debian or Ubuntu based because of course, my sound card doesn't work. Nice distro but I can't really see any advantage over Ubuntu, but it is nice to have another option. I am typing this using the new Wolvix Cub (BETA 1 installed on a regular desktop workstation) and it is running very nicely so far. The (Openbox) LXDE window manager is very nice indeed. So far I haven't had any found any bugs.
219 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-20 13:51:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref # 217
I would query the statement apropos direct Turkish govt involvement, LOL...
If you don't want to read it all here follows a snippet...
Development road map
The two organizations which make Pardus possible are the Turkish National Research Institute of Electronics and Cryptology (UEKAE) and the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK). UEKAE is the largest research institute of TÜBİTAK and carries out scientific research and
contracts technological development in cryptology and information security, business development efforts as direct “sales” to larger corporate and government sectors. UEKAE also develops programs for large software systems. The company has as one of its aims, the development of a corporate desktop and emphasizes the need for corporate management tools. TÜBİTAK is both the funding agency for scientific and technological research in Turkey, and conducts scientific and technological research through its various departments. In September 2003, TÜBİTAK and UEKAE conducted a preliminary assessment of Turkey's IT industry requirements, the results of which showed the need for an open source operating system to be used by national security agencies. UEKAE took the lead and started the Pardus project. Figure 2 shows the Pardus project's timeline, from the planning phase to where the project sees itself in the year 2010.
220 • Comments (by Paul B on 2009-07-20 14:51:20 GMT from United States)
Earlier this weekend I received a substantial pulse audio update from Mandriva. I installed and reactivated pulse audio to pleasantly find that everything works. I thought I would report this here, but all weekend long there was no place to submit a comment. Is DWW comments access shut down on weekends?
221 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-20 14:55:08 GMT from United States)
where is this weeks reviews? 20/07/2009
222 • alsa in Mandriva (by Tom on 2009-07-20 15:06:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Almost all mulimedia has been a bit of a blocker on lots of machines. Do you happen to know if this is an upstream fix for alsa or just focussed on tweaking things in Mandriva? Either way it's great news :)
I'm keen to read this weeks articles too :(
223 • This weeks article is up (by Anonymous on 2009-07-20 15:08:40 GMT from United States)
See: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090720 Just not announced on the front page yet.
Number of Comments: 223
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