 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 310, 6 July 2009 |
|
Welcome to this year's 27th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
The hottest debate in the Linux community right now is over whether or
not Mono, Novell's implementation of .NET, should be included by default
in Linux distributions. This week we look at decisions by Debian and Ubuntu,
and the reactions by notable members of the FOSS community. In other news,
Fedora announces their "Fit and Finish" product and Ksplice announces Uptrack
for Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope (9.04). Our feature this week is a review of
CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition, a unique multilingual mini distribution
from China. Finally, five new distributions are added to the DistroWatch
waiting list. Have a great Monday and the rest of the week!
Content:
- Review: CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition
- News: Debian and Ubuntu say Mono is no threat, rebootless updates for Jaunty, Fedora announces Fit and Finish project
- Released last week: PCLinuxOS 2009.2, Sabayon
Linux 4.2 "GNOME", Calculate Linux 9.7 "KDE", Yellow Dog Linux 6.2,
blackPanther OS 9.1
- Upcoming releases: Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS, Pardus Linux 2009 RC2, Frugalware Linux 1.1pre2
- New distributions: Sugar on a Stick, VESTA, Milnix, Mundus OS, BSD Router Project
- Reader comments
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
|
| Feature Story (by Caitlyn Martin) |
CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition Review
Five weeks ago when I wrote an overview of Debris
Linux I received a number of requests to review other mini
distributions from DistroWatch Weekly readers.
CDLinux is a minimalist distro from China which
takes a different approach to small. Rather than cram as many
application as possible onto a mini (3"/8cm) CD, the CDLinux Community
Edition aims for excellent support of half a dozen languages (Chinese,
English, French, German, Japanese and Russian), support for a wide
variety of filesystems and excellent hardware support, including
CUPS and XSane
for printers and scanners, all of which are included in the 204MB iso.
They also offer a "standard" edition, just 64MB in size, which includes
a basic Xfce desktop and almost no applications at all. CDLinux
"standard" does include popular rescue and admin tools, making it an
excellent choice for a recovery CD. Finally, the 25MB "mini" edition is
console only. I decided to take the most complete version, the
Community Edition, and put it through its paces.
CDLinux had its first public release in early 2003. Development seemed
to end in early 2005 but a new version made an appearance in April,
2008. There have been regular releases ever since. The latest version,
CDLinux 0.9.2 was released on February 27.
CDLinux is designed to be run as a live CD. A graphical installer
supports installation to a USB stick or an existing Windows C: drive.
The resulting installation is similar to a Damn
Small Linux frugal install or a Knoppix poor
man's install where the iso image is installed directly to the hard
drive and is booted read-only. You are then effectively running the Live
CD with the speed of a conventional hard drive. Installation to a
conventional hard drive partition is minimally
documented
but it is a manual process as of the current release.
For this review I used two systems: my six month old
Sylvania g
Netbook Meso (1.6 GHz Intel Atom N270 CPU, 1 GB RAM, 80 GB HDD) and
my six and a half year old Toshiba Satellite 1805-S204 (1 GHz Intel
Celeron CPU, 512 MB RAM, 20 GB HDD). Both systems meet minimum
requirements for any current Linux distribution and both have hardware
which is challenging with some distributions. The Toshiba, in
particular, uses a Trident CyberBlade XPi graphics chipset which is not
VESA 2.0 compliant. A number of mini distros fail to configure X
correctly on this system. Minimum system requirements for CDLinux are an
i686 (Pentium Pro or better) processor and just 64MB of RAM.
Running As A Live CD
When booting into CDLinux you are presented with a
GRUB4DOS menu screen
which has a dozen choices: 11 language and locale choices are offered
as is MemTest86+ for testing your system's memory. Locale choices for
English speakers include Canada, Great Britain and the United States.
For this review I chose U.S. English. Editing each choice is supported
but I didn't need to pass any special kernel parameters for my systems.
CDLinux is somewhat unusual in that it does not use a display manager at
all. By default it runs an automatic video configuration, starts X,
loads the Xfce 4.4.3 desktop and
automatically logs in as a user called cdl. No alternative desktop
environments or window managers are provided. I’m pleased to say that
CDLinux gets X configuration absolutely right on both of my systems with no intervention on my
part. A dialog box opens after Xfce is loaded offering a choice of
supported video resolutions with the highest resolution chosen by default.
My personal experience with live CDs is that I just can’t use most of
them on my old Toshiba. Once upon a time I blamed the hardware. I
figured the DVD-ROM drive in the old beast was just plain slow. With a
lot of live CDs, such as Ubuntu or
Mandriva One, my old system is slower than
molasses running uphill in the wintertime. It is somewhere between
extremely painful and absolutely unusable. A few years back
Wolvix 1.0.5 taught me the problem wasn’t my
hardware. CDLinux is another live distro that runs smoothly and
responsively on my old laptop.
CDLinux correctly detected all of my hardware on both systems.
Everything worked. Both wired and wireless networking were correctly configured
by wicd. Getting wireless up
and running was just a matter of clicking the little arrow next to the
network name and entering the passphrase for my WPA encrypted network.
Sound worked fine right out of the virtual box. Removable media, whether
a USB stick, an SD card or a compact flash card in a PCMCIA-CF adapter,
were detected correctly and an icon popped up on the desktop when they
were inserted. The icon did not disappear when the removable media was
unmounted as you might expect. Physically removing the media did
result in the icon disappearing.
Using CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition
The selection of internet applications in CDLinux Community
Edition include the
Firefox
3.0.6 and Opera 10.00.4102 (beta) web
browsers, Sylpheed 2.6.0, a
lightweight mail client, and the
Transmission 1.50
BitTorrent client. For instant messaging
Pidgin 2.5.4 is provided.
Skype 2.0.0.72 is also included on
the iso. Recent versions of
aMule and
FileZilla are also included.
Office applications included in the latest version of CDLinux are
limited to Gnumeric
1.8.4 and ePDFviewer. Instead of including a locally installed word
processor, a menu item for
Zoho
Writer, an online word processor, is included and it opens in
Firefox. I personally prefer to do my writing on my own system
independent of a network connection so I found this choice rather
disappointing.
Since CDLinux comes from China neither software patents nor the DMCA is
an issue to the developers. mp3 files play perfectly in either
smplayer or
mplayer. Some
Win32 codecs and libdvdcss are included and multimedia files I tried
just worked. There is no quick and easy tool for removing offending
codecs to make CDLinux DMCA-compliant, nor is there an easy way to add
any missing codecs. CD burning is handled by the rather minimal
xfburn. DVD writing
tools are not included. Google's gmlive tool for watching live video
is the only other multimedia app on the CDLinux iso. I had problems
with gmlive, which generally had difficulty connecting to video servers.
Two items normally excluded from mini distros but which did make it into
CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition are WINE
and Sun's Java Runtime Environment (JRE).
Graphics applications include GIMP
2.6.5 and gpicview. No software for directly interfacing to a digital
camera is included. A few lightweight games, the Mousepad text editor,
Midnight Commander CLI file manager, and galculator round out the
software selection. The multilingual, Unicode aware, and lightweight
urxvt replaces
both Xfce Terminal and xterm.
If you’re looking for gee whiz 3D desktop effects then CDLinux is not
the distribution for you. Compiz-fusion is not included. Under the
hood CDLinux 0.9.2 sports a 2.6.28 kernel. The X.org implementation is
just old enough to avoid the Intel graphics regressions seen in some
recent distribution releases. The Intel driver included is version
2.4.3.
I’ve used CDLinux 0.9.2 Community Edition fairly extensively and I
honestly have no significant bugs to report other than the
aforementioned problems with desktop icons for removable media and with
gmlive when the distro is run as a live CD. CDLinux gives you a vanilla
Xfce desktop with no frills. It is as user friendly as any Xfce based
distro with only one caveat: in order to keep the distro small most of
the man pages and help files have been removed from pretty much all the
applications. Someone with questions will have to rely on online help.
CDLinux
0.9.2 Community Edition with the default Xfce desktop
(full image size: 141kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)
Installation and Configuration: Hard Drive or USB Stick
CDLinux 0.9.2 features a graphical installer which supports installation
to either an existing Windows C: drive or to a USB stick. While I don't
have Windows on any of my personal systems I have a nice supply of USB
sticks. Unfortunately CDLinux didn't recognize any of them, with the
error message claiming that "no proper device was
detected in your system." This problem occurred on both of my
systems regardless of which USB stick I used.
The only remaining alternative was to extract the kernel and initrd
files as documented
here,
adding them to the /boot/grub/menu.lst file from another distro
installation. That did work but it is probably not something someone
new to Linux would be comfortable with. If you look at the linked
documentation you'll see that it is rather minimal and assumes you know
what you are doing.
The end result was a frugal install to my hard drive. Everything worked
and the system ran very fast indeed. It’s clear that hard drive
installation in CDLinux was an afterthought. CDLinux does not offer
security updates or notifications nor does it have its own package
repository. There are also no package management tools. A compiler is
also not included so you can't build from source with CDLinux. The
statement on the website: "It can be extended to run
as your desktop OS" is technically true but it certainly isn't
easy to accomplish. For most desktop users who want a secure and up to
date system CDLinux probably isn’t the best choice to install to the
hard drive.
Conclusions
For a desktop or laptop user who speaks one of the six supported
languages with even a minimal amount of previous Linux experience CDLinux
is a very capable live CD. Users who need more than one of these
languages in a small distro will be absolutely thrilled with CDLinux.
Performance is excellent, particularly on older, slower hardware. This
distro, when run as a live CD, has very few bugs. It’s well thought out
and generally user friendly. The selection of applications should give
most casual users much of what they need and the inclusion of codecs and
a nice suite of Internet apps is a plus. The downside of using CDLinux
is typical of smaller, lightweight distros: a lack of help files/man
pages and a somewhat limited set of applications. I also found the lack
of a word processor unfortunate.
Hard drive installation is doable but the graphical installer just
didn't work for me. In general installation is, at best, a work in
process which currently requires a significant knowledge of Linux.
Installing CDLinux to a hard drive or USB stick, either in a full or
frugal installation, isn’t for newcomers. Once installed and configured
CDLinux performs brilliantly but lacks the tools for systems
administration and routine maintenance that most distributions have.
Hard drive installation is really an afterthought but an experienced
user who really likes CDLinux can certainly consider it.
Generally, if you use CDLinux for what it was designed to be: a
multilingual mini live CD which will run on most any hardware, the results
are generally quite good.
|
| Miscellaneous News (by Chris Smart) |
Debian and Ubuntu say Mono is no threat, rebootless updates for
Jaunty, Fedora announces Fit and Finish project
 It
has been a hot topic lately - whether Novell's open source
implementation of the heavily patented and Microsoft controlled .NET
programming framework should be included by default in Linux
distributions. The Debian GNU/Linux project recently
announced that notetaking program, Tomboy, would be
included
by default in the package selection for next release, Squeeze. In
reply to this announcement, the father of free software Richard Stallman, warned against including Mono by default. He wrote: "Debian's decision to include Mono in its principal way of installing GNOME, for the sake of Tomboy which is an application written in C#, leads the community in a risky direction." He continued: "The danger is that Microsoft is probably planning to force all free C# implementations underground some day using software patents...This is a serious danger, and only fools would ignore it until the day it actually happens. We need to take precautions now to protect ourselves from this future danger." Official Debian developer Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote a reply in his blog, saying:"So, when installing Lenny, and when using the GNOME installation media (not the KDE, Xfce or LXDE one), and when you have either a complete set of discs (including DVD or BlueRay installation) or internet access during installation time, tomboy (and therefore mono) will already be installed automatically. When using other installation media or only use the first CD (which doesn't contain tomboy) neither tomboy nor mono will be installed." So for now at least, Mono is still not quite included in the default GNOME desktop, but will things change? And does anyone care?
* * * * *
 Also related to Mono, the Ubuntu community has been putting pressure on the project to make an official announcement as to their position on Mono in the popular operating system. This week the Ubuntu Techncal Board granted their wish, although it might not have been the one many were hoping for. In the announcement, the team writes: "The Ubuntu Project takes patent issues seriously, and the Ubuntu Technical Board is the governance body that handles allegations of patent infringement...The Ubuntu Technical Board has received no claims of infringement against the Mono stack, and is not aware of any such claims having been received by other similar projects." Finally they conclude: "Given the above, the Ubuntu Technical Board sees no reason to exclude Mono or applications based upon it from the archive, or from the default installation set." In short, Ubuntu approves of Mono and will continue to include .NET applications as part of their default install. Indeed, with the upcoming release they will be increasing the number of these applications by replacing music player Rhythmbox with Banshee.
In other Ubuntu related news, the team behind Ksplice has announced a
free service for Ubuntu Jaunty users called
Uptrack. Ksplice can
apply kernel patches directly into the running kernel, without
requiring a reboot. Linux Magazine has an
interesting article about
the technology. "Ksplice is a suite of tools which can apply patches directly into a running kernel resulting in an instantly patched system without a single interruption. No need to reboot the system or restart any services!" But would any desktop users really care? "Certainly most desktop users will probably feel that their system is secure enough and not feel the need for such a service. After all, most desktops rarely face the Internet directly like a server might. Even so, the more layers of security and protection one can have on their system the better. Finally, the Ksplice team really has done a first class job at implementing the technology. It’s just so easy for end users to install and use." The service is available free of charge and users can take advantage of it by downloading and installing the package from their website.
* * * * *
 Recently
the Ubuntu project announced their "One Hundred Paper Cuts" project, to
fix niggling issues which negatively impact the user experience on the
operating system. Perhaps partially inspired by this project,
Fedora has announced their own called
"Fit and
Finish". The projects page begins: "Fedora is well-known as the premier showcase for the latest open source technology on Linux. Unfortunately, it has also been perceived as being a bit rough around the edges. The Fedora Fit and Finish initiative intends to change this. We will focus on getting the details right and improving the user experience by removing obstacles and annoyances from everyday tasks." It then goes on to provide a list of examples, including things such as: plugging in a projector and starting a presentation; inserting blank media and getting it formatted; interacting with portable media players, and; sharing files with others on the network. The project aims to work on these for the upcoming release 12. It differs from Ubuntu's by casting the net much wider, instead of limiting it to problems with existing features. Improvements in Linux distributions, whatever they might be, are always a good thing!
|
| Released Last Week |
PCLinuxOS 2009.2
Bill Reynolds has announced the release of
PCLinuxOS 2009.2, a beginner-friendly
distribution and live CD for the desktop: "The
quarterly ISO image updates of PCLinuxOS 2009.2 and PCLinuxOS GNOME
2009.2 are now available, featuring a fully updated ISO image with the
latest applications from the PCLinuxOS repositories. Additional
features include a notification updater to let you know when there are
updates available for your installation. 'Addlocale' will localize your
PCLinuxOS into one of the many languages. 'GetOpenOffice' allows you to
install OpenOffice.org 3.1 in any of the 104 languages available."
Here is the brief
release
announcement with a couple of screenshots.
Sabayon Linux 4.2 "GNOME"
Fabio Erculiani has announced the release of Sabayon
Linux 4.2 "GNOME" edition, a Gentoo-based desktop distribution and live
DVD: "On the behalf of the Sabayon Linux team, we
are happy to announce the immediate availability of Sabayon Linux 4.2
GNOME. Features: based on Sabayon 4.1 GNOME, containing hundreds of bug
fixes and performance improvements; less than 2 GB ISO footprint; custom
Linux kernel 2.6.29; ext4 as default file system; complete GNOME 2.26.2;
OpenOffice.org 3.1. Changes since Sabayon 4.1: environment in sync with
latest available Entropy updates; featuring Entropy framework 0.96.26,
improved performance, reduced hardware requirements; featuring the new
user-friendly Entropy graphical interface...." Find more
information in the detailed
release
notes.
Calculate Linux 9.7 "KDE"
Calculate Linux Desktop (CLD) is a Gentoo-based
operating system for PCs and notebooks. Alexander Tratsevskiy has just
announced a new version of its KDE edition, 9.7. Main changes:
"Support for Italian and Polish has been added.
System installation on USB Flash cards has been added. Setting up of a
new user account in KDE has been accelerated 2.5 times. Setting up sound
card has been added. The identification of PCs and notebooks with two
video cards has been added. Option of booting the live DVD image into
the cache has been added. File README.html with description of
installation has been added to the live CD desktop. Calculate Linux
Desktop KDE is 100% compatible with Gentoo." More information in
the release
announcement.
Yellow Dog Linux 6.2
Fixstars has announced the release of Yellow Dog
Linux 6.2, a CentOS-based distribution designed for the Apple PowerPC
and Sony PlayStation machines: "Fixstars today
announced the immediate availability of Yellow Dog Linux 6.2, delivering
several updates and improvements making it simpler to install, faster,
and easier to use. This release offers an updated kernel 2.6.29 for
64-bit systems, OpenOffice.org 3.0, Firefox 3.0.6 and IBM Cell SDK
3.1.0.1, as well as the next generation of ps3vram for fast, temporary
file storage or swap using PS3 video RAM. With this release, ps3vram is
up to 50% faster than in Yellow Dog Linux 6.1 and is automatically
enabled as swap. With Yellow Dog Linux 6.2, Fixstars has added a fourth
alternative for the desktop environment: Xfce." Read the full
release
announcement for further details.
blackPanther OS 9.1
blackPanther OS is a Hungarian desktop Linux
distribution with RPM package management. The just released version
9.1 is a major update, featuring many new technologies, Linux kernel
2.6.29.1, KDE 4.2.0 and OxygenOffice 3.1. Besides the live CD, the
distribution provides a total of eight software repositories containing
over 4,800 extra packages, including a good selection of games and a
variety of kernel drivers. There is also a seeker repository with over
2,000 untested packages. Although blackPanther OS is a free
distribution, the developers have included some blackPanther ads and
sponsored links into the distribution in order to earn revenue - these
can be removed by users. For more information please see the
release
announcement (in Hungarian).
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|
| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
|
Summary of expected upcoming releases
|
| DistroWatch.com News |
New distributions added to waiting list
- Sugar on a Stick.
Sugar on a Stick is a USB implementation of the Fedora-based Sugar
Learning Platform, a distribution for children originally developed for
the One Laptop per Child XO-1 netbook. It is designed to be installed on
a single USB memory stick (minimum size 1GB).
- VESTA. VESTA is a specialist
live Linux distribution designed for work with Java.
- Milnix. Milnix is a new built from
scratch distribution in the early stages of development. The project
includes a source based package management system.
- Mundus OS.
Mundus OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution designed to ease the
transition to Linux for new users. Mundus OS can install Windows
programs, mount Macintosh dmg's and install the packages of other
non-Debian Linux distributions.
- BSD Router Project. BSD Router
Project is an open source customized distribution of FreeBSD dedicated
to offer IP routing services for small ISPs. It is not intended for
home use.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 13 July 2009.
Caitlyn Martin and Chris Smart
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • CDLinux (by Al Kaffine on 2009-07-06 11:10:41 GMT from United States)
CDLinux sounds interesting, but I prefer Wolvix.
2 • mono (by benjamin on 2009-07-06 11:29:09 GMT from United States)
very nice DWW, as per usual!
i personally think it's a bit suprising that debian would include mono by default on their gnome full install. they are a major FOSS supporter, and i wouldn't think they would include an open-source imitation of a notoriously closed development platform, especially not by default. it will be interesting to hear what others have to say about it. thanks again!
3 • nice Review (by Mahmoud Slamah on 2009-07-06 11:33:38 GMT from Egypt)
Many thanks four effort from all to explain the power and stability and all benefits of FOSS ( Free and Open Source Software ) . :) :) :)
4 • CDLinux (by Roland L. on 2009-07-06 11:35:25 GMT from United States)
I believe CDLinux is based on Debian? Is this correct? I did not see mention of this. Thanks for doing the smaller distros, this is very interesting to read. I might try it out for rescue and stuff.
5 • Wolvix Cub 2.0.0-beta1 (by Tom on 2009-07-06 11:39:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
lol, i was trying to avoid mentioning wolvix in the first post this week given the hysteria last week but it's odd that Dw still hasn't got the package listing for this beta-release which people have been using for a couple of weeks or more now. Now only other time Dw hasn't been swift off th mark was for a 'distro' that was more of a set of themes rather than being a full distro. Just curious really.
6 • Mono (by macias on 2009-07-06 11:48:00 GMT from Poland)
> And does anyone care?
Somebody tries to set a record of comments number ;-)
Yes, somebody cares. It is much better if you can invest your work in something that lasts, and even if not -- that you won't have to start from scratch. It would be really good if installation of Mono and apps dependant of Mono was possible but _discouraged_.
If there is anyone pro-Mono I have one question -- why even bother with Linux and open-source in the first place? You have great offer from MS -- great system, great office suite, great games, full set. And MS is well-known as fair players, who you can trust. Just let them take care of your data, they act for your own good.
Right?
Wrong. If you don't trust MS in 99% cases, why all of the sudden you trust them in C# case? Because they changed? They appreciate the virtue of honesty now? Yeah, I am the first believer ;-).
7 • Why I do not want mono in default install (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 11:51:28 GMT from Canada)
I have no problem with the fact that C# comes from Microsoft. My problem is the fact that I like to have the smallest, simplest possible installation. For me mono is just a bloat application and I can live without problem without tomboy (and gnome in general since i am a kde fan).
8 • Wolvix (by AbacusMonkey on 2009-07-06 12:01:53 GMT from Australia)
Man oh man. Every week. Wolvix is one of the first comments. Bit of amusement for a Monday evening. :P
9 • mint running (by Mandy Morris on 2009-07-06 12:07:54 GMT from United States)
Oh I notice the comments section starts over! I wanted to reply to some I saw yesterday and last night but the text field here was gone.
One was saying I liked mint so I should stick with it and others said to be sure to try others. Both of those things might happen; I might go off this one as I have been reading about other distributions but no reason to that I can see.
For one thing it appears as I learn about the distributions of linux that they all can be configured and "tweeked" to as little or as much as one wants. It looks like it is a battle of a few main ones and their offshoots which are in the hundreds.
I think this linux idea is good for computing mainly because when things in my case got slow and the maintenance procedures no longer helped (clearing unused files and programs, defragmenting etc) all I thought I had was another version of windows to try hoping the next one was an improvement over the last one like 98 to ME and ME to XP.
Well they don't make the next version of windows for speed necessarily it looks like. At least in my experience on this computer. I think they want computers to get bigger cpus and graphics cards to accomodate their next versions so improvement is not about keeping computers in use but about throwing them away and getting the big fast ones.
Some of linux is like that too though. I have been reading about "kde" getting big. And also distributions getting bigger and bigger.
I have a lot to learn but I know already that I can do a similar thing with linux that I could do to a point with XP and vista. I can pare it down for my computer's old .9 cpu and 5200 graphics card. In windows doing that stops at getting rid of things you don't need and keeping the maintenance up every day. In linux the paring down can go deeper that is why gconf-editor was good for me to find out about. It has a "low resources" setting and many other helpful ones for this computer.
Plus other things are waiting for me to find out about in linux for making it suit this computer. Unlike windows.
10 • Why mono inclusion is (potentially) dangerous (by Alexandru on 2009-07-06 12:16:25 GMT from Germany)
A well-known Trojan strategy is to be installed and then to destroy all it can.
Well, it doesn't apply directly. Rather, some known corporation tolerate inclusion of mono technology in FOSS until it heavily depend on it. Starting at this point it sue distribution after distribution and if doesn't destroy them, slow their development.
11 • More on Mono (by TomToo on 2009-07-06 12:17:15 GMT from Taiwan)
Telling Debian and Ubuntu to NOT include any C#-encumbered apps is like trying to convince your friend to not drive drunk; the drunk is the only one who can't see the problem...
12 • mono (by digger on 2009-07-06 12:22:13 GMT from United States)
No thanks. Before Tom-Tom, mono/MS supporters could say MS never sues anyone over patents. They can't say that anymore; in fact, IIRC, at one point MS was dropping semi-veiled threats about suing Tom-Tom's users.
If I wanted to use MS-technology I'd be using Windows; nothing is more like Windows than Windows itself (Tip of the hat to macias, above). When mono shows up on a default install, I get rid of it. Why do mono/MS supporters insist on forcing mono apps on everyone?! That is so MS-like.
Tom-Tom ... Tom-Tom ... Tom-Tom.
13 • Haha (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-06 12:24:50 GMT from United States)
@1: That deserves a high-five.
@5: Does Distrowatch track Beta releases?
Is it going to be stable soon?
@6: I agree on a certain level. Whether or not Linux CAN use Mono is a question that will probably never be answered. Whether it SHOULD is a different story. It all depends on what you make of it.
I, for one, care little for the individual applications Mono installs on, say, Ubuntu, and discard it by default. This is not because I'm afraid Microsoft will sue Ubuntu, but because Mono is simply an unused piece of cruft on my hard drive.
Besides, I think Linux as a whole can do better than feeding off of the handouts from Microsoft, right? No need to beg your largest competitor for the new leading technology.
@anyone: I started trying out Arch on my extra laptop. I've got Fluxbox and Firefox running, now, withiut any "prettifying" touches. But, man, what a rush! I got it to work! I AM YOUR KING!!!
14 • #1 (by shuv on 2009-07-06 12:24:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Looks like a good start for a week discussion.
15 • Debian "default" (by Michael M. on 2009-07-06 12:41:43 GMT from United States)
I find this whole "controversy" over Debian and Mono to be a bit overblown, in the sense that I've never really thought of Debian as having a hard-coded "default" installation. I realize there are several different methods of installing Debian, but AFAIK all of them give you choices about what exactly you want to install. Unlike Ubuntu and many other distros, there's no "1-click-install-to-disk" option (which is what I think of as a "default" installation) for Debian. Debian offers a number of canned installation software sets, including one called "Desktop Environment," which will install GNOME (meta-package: gnome) and therefore Mono, but you don't have to select that set. In addition, Debian has several installation disks that won't install GNOME at all -- you can download disks that will install KDE, XFCE, or LXDE instead.
16 • BSD Router Project. (by Alie Tan at 2009-07-06 12:48:07 GMT from Singapore)
Gr8! Finally we have BSD Router Project.
17 • #4: CDLinux base (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-06 12:52:42 GMT from United States)
@Roland L.: I honestly don't know if CDLinux is based on Debian or built from scratch or based on something else. That isn't mentioned by the developers anywhere.
18 • TinyCore vs CDLinux (by Tom on 2009-07-06 12:52:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
There seems to be some striking similarities. I guess the main differences being that TinyCore is aimed at covering the top-end machines market instead and it seems to be more interested in retaining a personalised component with data, settings, updated and 'installed' apps. I guess those differences are mostly down to cultural differences.
It does seem very strange to include a spreadsheet app rather than a word-processing although the on-line facility makes sense of that. As CDLinux seems primarily aimed at online use it's good to see java included and wine is almost a necessity at the moment. Odd that it has 'the bloat' of 2 of the largest web-browsers.
I'd like to vote in favour of "Sugar on a stick" and "BSD Router Project" although it doesn't really work like that i know ;)
Mandy, it sounds like you're getting to grips with us quite fast but bear in mind that the 'off-shoots' may be adding considerably to the main distros, and indeed to upstream projects, such as firefox, which benefits distros from all families. These 'off-shoots' may also be contributing directly to other off-shoots even from different families, lots of people regularly use more than one distro as they all have unique special qualities. The main distros are not so much in competition for 'the number 1 spot' as they aim at slightly different markets, having different aims & objectives from each other. As we were saying last week many distros aim to stay small. Dsl broke into 2 distros with a major part of the argument being about whether to go even smaller or to relax and increase slightly. Now we have Dsl at under 100Mb but TinyCore at under 10Mb!! There's always going to be an argument for starting with a fully featured distro and paring it down, or whether to start with a smaller lighter, faster distro and 'beef it up' by adding apps as and when you need. Slackware family are really good for this but so too is Arch, TinyCore and also some from other families. I hope this helps! lol. Also consider that Mint is an off-shoot of Ubuntu which is, in turn, an off-shoot of Debian but Ubuntu is a much larger project really driving forwards into the american desktop market.
19 • FreeBSD review (by SBY-BUDIONO on 2009-07-06 12:52:56 GMT from Singapore)
Hi Chris,
I was wondering why DW never ever do some review for *BSD(excl. PC-BSD)
20 • OH NO , Not again u mentioned (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 13:27:23 GMT from United States)
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
P L E A A A A A ...... SE ABSTAIN YOURSELVES FROM MENTIONING WOLVIX. I AM SICK TO MY STOMACH OF HEARING about this. I JUST GOT OVER HEARING OF UBUNTU, I AM OK WITH IT, I HAD TO SEE A DOCTOR... BUT WOLVIX IS MAKING ME SICK! PLEASE IF NO MAJOR RELEASE IS OUT, DON'T MENTION WOLVIX. I AM HAVING PYSCOLOGICAL PROBLEMS WITH IT. I HATE IT DESPITE NOT EVEN TRYING IT OUT, WHY? I HEAR ABOUT IT EVERY TIME, AND THAT MAKES ME SICK.
21 • @20 (by Wolvix McGillicuddy on 2009-07-06 13:36:31 GMT from United States)
Why? *sniff* What is so very wrong with me?? *sob*
:o) *grin* LOL, etc...
22 • #4,#17 (by cgrille on 2009-07-06 13:43:18 GMT from Germany)
from FAQ: "CDlinux 0.6.x and 0.9.x is binary compatible with Slackware 11"
23 • things I would like to see (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 13:55:04 GMT from United States)
An article about new distros based on android or Maemo Harmattan. What
pitfalls of the current camps could be avoided. This way we could comment
about what might be. And maybe shape the future. Keep up the good work
still my fav read of the week.
24 • about mono and obscure distro (by Xtyn on 2009-07-06 14:13:40 GMT from Romania)
About the 1st comment: I'm in the phase when I just ignore it and hope it will go away.
About mono: I just hope there won't be many apps written in mono because if there will be, I fear the consequences.
I don't get it, do the developers REALLY need a MS framework to create apps?
Well, I think it's all Novel's fault, it endorses this because Novel is Microsoft's pawn in the GNU/Linux land. I wouldn't be surprised it Microsoft bought Novel one day.
Maybe I'm paranoid...
Then again, maybe I'm not.
25 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 14:15:36 GMT from United States)
New Distros based on android or Maemo Harmattan?
Yep! New Distros Based on WOLVIX!!! HA HA HA to make poster 20 SICK so he can go to the DOCTOR. Did I say Wolvix, Yes I did.
WOLVIX, WOLVIX, WOLVIX, WOLVIX, WOLVIX, WOLVIX
y = WOLVIX^{X}
where X is as many times to make you sick Mr/Mrs Poster #20. WOLVIX IS WOLVIX IS WOLVIX IS WOLVIX. WOLVIX IS GOING TO RULE THE WORLD.
26 • re#25 (by hab on 2009-07-06 14:21:18 GMT from Canada)
Well maybe a little tiny corner of it!
h
27 • Mono (by Jesse on 2009-07-06 14:21:37 GMT from United States)
I don't have anything against Mono, really. Or C# for that matter. My only concern would be, as post #7 points out, the extra bloat. So far I haven't seen any really good apps which use Mono, so it seems like un-needed over-head. I don't really want it in my default install.
28 • Linux's future is threatened from within, not from Microsoft (by Zac on 2009-07-06 14:23:15 GMT from Australia)
I now realize that Microsoft will not use mono in any legal way to attack or threaten Linux at all. You see, they don't need to, we are doing it ourselves. I give them credit, for they are smarter than some of us. There are those who continue to be hoodwinked and I don't know when or if they will know. You see, mono is being used by some to fracture and hinder Linux to all of our detriment, not only in application development but in pitting distro against distro. I have to say well done people, I take my hat off to you.
What you people fail to realize, while you are expending all this energy running away from Microsoft's threats, is that the real obstacle to Linux adoption and advancement is people with these kind of attitudes. Microsoft doesn't even have to take any action at all, all they need is to speak, and Linux's seemingly influential but vocal minority behave just as Microsoft predicts. Vast energy is wasted on something that won't happen in the foreseeable future or won't happen at all. This energy needs to be channelled away from the focus on Microsoft. Maybe you people don't want to increase Linux adoption, and that is fine, as long as you realize that is what you want. But don't use mono to further fracture and hinder Linux because you will be behaving just as Microsoft wants you too. Try not to be a 'one-issue-voter'.
29 • Tom-Tom (by Tom on 2009-07-06 14:28:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is the case over yet? Did microsquish win? Anyone got a link to a recent relevant article?
Mandy look up at the far top right of this thread, you can also work your way to previous weeks threads using the url-bar, eg
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090631&mode=67
What is the point of Mono or .NET? Is it something like java? Multi-platform easily portable programs? Err, now i'm really confused, isn't that OpenSource?
30 • re #27 (by Zac on 2009-07-06 14:28:40 GMT from Australia)
The only mono app I use is Tomboy. Gnote works great but as long as it remains in the notification area I won't use it, therefore is not a replacement. I hope this changes. F-Spot and Banshee I don't like.
31 • Distro Reviews Like This Are Pointless(tm) (by Udo on 2009-07-06 14:32:33 GMT from Germany)
The most important thing a distro builder does is providing updates for stability, security and maybe features.
Only write reviews when you have tested distros for a long time so you can provide _valuable_ infos about the update situation.
32 • CDLinux (by anon penguin at 2009-07-06 14:33:22 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off topic).
33 • re#32 (by hab on 2009-07-06 14:39:05 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off topic).
34 • Mono = Monkey (by Duhnonymous on 2009-07-06 14:43:52 GMT from United States)
I love how no one seems to care about the superficial aspect of Mono. To me, it seems hilarious that anyone in the business world would take it seriously (aside from EA, who use it for Sims 3).
And, is it just me, or is "Mono" uncomfortably close to the word "Monopoly"? I wonder if they had a hidden agenda when they named it.
35 • @26 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 14:46:44 GMT from United States)
A little corner of it? Maybe you meant it will rule Distrowatch?
From regular Distrowatch ---> UbuntuWatch ---> Now WolvixWatch?
First comment makes it seem that way?
What is so special about Wolvix? It makes me wonder?
36 • re#35 (by hab on 2009-07-06 14:49:40 GMT from Canada)
Why not try it and see for yourself?
h
37 • Mono and BSD Router (by Scribe63 on 2009-07-06 14:50:18 GMT from United States)
MONO:
For personal usage i don't use opensuse, tomboy, and i am developing the same attitude towards Ubuntu. Therefore from a personal perspective i have no uses for mono or mono based applications. Based on my recent non working kernel (2.6.28-11) and kernel module (e1000/e1000e) experiences with Ubuntu Studio/Ubuntu 9.04, it is beginning to SUCK big time IMHO.
BSD Router:
Seems like interesting project. I am curious as to why FreeBSD was their choice as oppose to OpenBSD.
38 • mono tonous (by hab on 2009-07-06 15:07:04 GMT from Canada)
Anybody REALLY interested in the whole ms, novell, opensuse, mono, .net, c## thing thing should really go here: http://groklaw.net/ and do the background reading, learning and understanding before venting on this whole tangle of .......what, ......crap!
So many comments are posted that demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge or understanding. People, do your homework and heed the caution before hitting submit.
Rather post from knowledge, not lack thereof!
cheers
39 • linux from scratch (by Mandy on 2009-07-06 15:18:27 GMT from United States)
I discovered linuxfromscratch.org. All I did was wondering about making a linux from scratch and googled that and the obvious site came up.
That is the place to learn about linux the way I want to I think. I'll bet everybody here already knows about it. :) Especially those with old computers.
40 • re#39 (by hab on 2009-07-06 15:25:26 GMT from Canada)
Mandy, you are just beginning a voyage of discovery.
Pick your berth and set sail!
You are the pilot and at the wheel.
The (computer) world is your oyster.
h
41 • Debian, who can understand it (by Ray on 2009-07-06 15:49:29 GMT from United States)
Debian won't include the cs46xx driver because of a missing license from Cirrus Logic, yet they are willing to include MONO which can probably lead to a lawsuit down the road.
42 • PCLinuxOS 2009.2 (by !linuxfreak on 2009-07-06 16:06:07 GMT from United States)
I have in the past been a huge supporter of PCLinuxOS , but after being ban for asking or commenting why PCLinuxOS did not have KDE 4 , I will from now on , NOT RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE !
Some say they wish to stay with KDE 3.5 , fine , but KDE 4 is here and is the next GUI for Linux , like it or not , I for one have been using KDE 4 for so long now it is looking old , the new has worn off .
It saddens me to see a OS that has potential and then shoot it's self in the foot by being narrow minded and looking old and outdated .
SO for the Slackers and Dinosaurs out there that refuse to change , get off the stump and get on with KDE 4 . You are using Kernel 2.6 , most thought 2.4 was better and refused to use it , they now use 2.6 .
For anyone that reads this , please do not be offended by the words 'Slacker or Dinosaur' it only means you are slow and narrow minded , use KDE 4 it won't hurt much I promise . ( the last sentence is a joke , pleas do not take it seriously)
How is that PCLinuxOS staff ?
43 • Does anyone care? (by Duncan Snowden on 2009-07-06 16:50:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Not now, maybe, no. But when MS starts the “extend” and “extinguish” phases of the project, and makes it known that the Mono implementation of C# and .NET are “broken”, then people will care.
Opposition to Mono (and Moonlight) isn't knee-jerk anti-Microsoft-ism; it's based on calm, close consideration of Microsoft's previous modus operandi: ie, “embrace, extend, extinguish”. I think of that phrase every time I read a headline about MS “embracing” open source or Linux. And I've read a lot of those recently.
Just don't say we weren't warned.
44 • @42 (by Jose Mirles on 2009-07-06 16:54:17 GMT from United States)
I have used PCLinuxOS in the past. I have made many comments there, some started serious debates. But I was never banned for asking about anything.
There is still a debates going on in their forums concerning KDE 4. Some are very vocal about it. None of them are banned.
Texstar has always been a "regular" fellow and will let you have your word. But he will not put up with rude behavior.
Not saying you were rude, but if you would go to the PCLinuxOS forums, you can see the topic of KDE 4 has started a war there. No one is being told to shut up or are being banned.
Makes me wonder what you did to get banned from there.
45 • @42 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 16:57:03 GMT from United States)
Try Wolvix!!!
Wolvix has KDE4 doesn't it?
It is the best thing since sliced ham. It is new and uses kernel 2.6. IT is not a DINOSAUR, try it. It will piss off PCLINUXOS Staff and it will make Wolven and other self appointed Wolvix followers very happy!!!
46 • @42 and @44 (by davecs on 2009-07-06 17:17:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
He was being extremely rude, on the lines of insulting forum members who wanted to stick with KDE3.5, then, when contacted about this by a moderator, published the moderator's post along with another rant. He has not been banned, but put in the sin-bin. That means if he wants to calm down he'll be able to post again after 30 days. Many good forum members have started off on the wrong foot like this and have gone on to be a valuable part of the community.
For the record, KDE4 is being worked on, I have a spare partition upgraded to KDE4, when it's ready generally, it will be announced. He could have been testing it and reporting back, rather than behaving boorishly and getting himself sin-binned.
Thanks to the structure of the PCLinuxOS repositories, once KDE4 appears, users will have a CHOICE (isn't that what Open Source is all about?) whether to keep KDE3 or move to KDE4 so everyone will be happy -- everyone, that is, apart from those who wish to insult those who decide to stick with KDE3.
Me? Probably run parallel installs and decide what I prefer over time. I like some of the KDE4 stuff, but I need convincing over other bits.
47 • Good review of CDLinux, and feedback to selected other folks (by Miq on 2009-07-06 17:36:41 GMT from Sweden)
Very nice, informative and insightful review of CDLinux! Many thanks for that, and the valuable information surrounding the main technical aspects, which added flesh without detracting from what was relevant!
@7 (and #27) - very good comment! I fully agree with you (both in that libraries constitute unnecessary bloat and in being a KDE man)! Mono is from my perspective just another layer and resource drain I'd be prefer to be without. Perhaps that would be a good future article, who to create optimal library-minimised installations? That is, slimming systems of Gnome/GTK, Mono, KDE, etc, for those that wants to. (Reply #15 about DE-library specific Debians touched on this).
About #20, though jocular, I think there is some truth in his message. Shout something enough and it turns from plugging to off-putting. F.i. #45, let Wolvix rest from some time or you're going to reach the lands of counter-productivity. Or at least post constructive comments that will bring something new or truly useful to the table.
48 • I am against Mono by default (by Slo Ben on 2009-07-06 17:51:51 GMT from United States)
I am against Mono by default.
I had Mono in High School and not the cool kind you get from kissing Girls; it totally sucked
49 • @46 (by Pootie Tang on 2009-07-06 18:10:55 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off topic).
50 • wolvix (by wolvix at 2009-07-06 18:23:13 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off topic).
51 • #38. Mono (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 18:28:02 GMT from Canada)
from groklaw:
Fedora is concerned about Mono
While Mono is part of the new Fedora 11 distribution (in the repository), at this point it's likely not going to be part of Fedora 12. Frields told me that the change for Fedora 12 is mostly around the fact that there is now another project to replace Tomboy (gNote) that does not require Mono.
That said, Frields also told me that in his view there are some problems with the language used in the legalese surrounding Mono and its redistribution. "We do have some serious concerns about Mono and we'll continue to look at it with our legal counsel to see what if any steps are needed on our part," Frields said.
While Mono is part of Fedora, Mono is not part of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and hasn't been since 2006. - Sean Michael Kerner, InternetNews
http://www.groklaw.net/index.php
52 • Educate me on mono (by juarez on 2009-07-06 18:31:49 GMT from United States)
There are open source alternatives for proprietary ones all over the place. Mono is an open source alternative for .net
As long as we're not stealing code, what's the beef?
53 • CDLinux (by Jose Mirles on 2009-07-06 18:41:08 GMT from United States)
I can't believe it! Without knowing she did it, Caitlyn did an article on another Slackware based distro!
Funny how a distro with a rep for being difficult has so many derivatives.
Great article on CDLinux Caitlyn. I was wondering what its niche was.
Being a Slackware believer, myself, I hope you do reviews on all Slackware based distros and then tell us which you prefer for different needs.
It would cover a bunch of smaller distros...
54 • pclinuxOS deadcd (by derezdev on 2009-07-06 18:44:59 GMT from United States)
Both the Gnome & KDE "live" cd's fault to prompt. Saying system resources not found on multiple types of machines. Just a heads up before spending your time downloading these.
55 • No subject (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-06 18:51:23 GMT from United States)
@54: I used the KDE 2009.2 release without any issues. Perhaps it's your hardware, and not the distro's fault? What a radical concept!
The only system it didn't boot on was my laptop, where it stalled on SCSI device probing. But 2009.1 did that, too.
@46: The PCLinuxOS mods need thicker skin if they call the post insulting. Dear lord, must everything on the internet be filled with hyperbole and exaggeration?
KDE 4.2 is fine; I used it in Fedora for a bit. Certainly not finished, but on its merry way to a very nice place I heartily approve of. I'm not one to care about what DE or WM I run, though.
56 • educate juarez on mono (by corneliu on 2009-07-06 19:19:27 GMT from Canada)
Nobody said that Mono steals code. Some say that Mono steals ideas. Ideas are patented. If Mono has stepped on Microsoft's patented toes, then there is your beef. Anyway, who the hell needs Microsoft spices on Linux beef?
57 • 38 hab, mono (by Tom on 2009-07-06 19:46:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for the link there hab. It's tough to believe i stumbled onto an issue when i asked about similarities between Mono and Java. Your helpful link
http://groklaw.net/
led me to download
http://www.redmonk.com/public/mono_cc_licensed.pdf
which i've only just started reading but I already feel i know a lot more now but still don't see why just writing straight OpenSource software can't just continue without using Mono or .Net or Java
58 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-06 19:56:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re #55
Then, re your response to #46...you missed tautology...LOL.
Re #20, with a nod to #25...we all know what happened to the little matey who cried wolf...I hope we are not all too de-sensitised to the Distribution Release when it's published...
Re the remarks on the distros the Chinese folk may be obliged to use...why not call it Green Dam and be done with it... bit of a mixed blessing some of this national distro stuff. I have to say I'm still up for open source...but not too sure about some of the folk writing it. Seem to be against the whole ethos of GNULinux to me.
59 • waiting (by buggers on 2009-07-06 20:00:20 GMT from United States)
i'm waiting for for the day when wolvix includes mono
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
60 • pclinuxOS deadcd (by billyd on 2009-07-06 20:02:42 GMT from United States)
@54: I also had issues with the 2009.2 KDE LiveCD. The CD booted OK to the menu and
the media check passed, but when I tried booting the first menu entry to the LiveCD, it failed with the same or similar message you received. I believe this may be a driver issue related to the hardware detection of the CD/DVD drive. I have a sata DVD/CD RW drive.
I tried the second menu entry. Don't remember exact wording but contained "probe sata" or
"sata probe". This one booted to the LiveCD Desktop from where I could install PCLinuxOS.
I have had this same issue with Mandriva and a few other distros lately. The solution for me has always been either using correct boot options or (In Mandriva) selecting the proper driver for my sata CD/DVD.
61 • re#59 (by hab on 2009-07-06 20:03:03 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off topic).
62 • mono + stallman (by tuxhelper on 2009-07-06 21:01:50 GMT from United States)
I agree with Stallman but not everybody will fall that way. This is just another big step that gnu/linux related projects are moving towards being more like ms as a lot of people have wanted for so long.
different paths make for interesting times
http://tinyurl.com/m6h8kl
63 • re#59, #58 Damn Green (by hab on 2009-07-06 21:10:58 GMT from Canada)
Ohhhh..................kkkkk!
We'll try that one again.
Some people have no sense of ha ha.
@59
Sounds like a diseased animal that might have to be put down.
But i will add a ;-).
@58 forest
Agree with your musings but even if the tool they make to try to achieve filtration is closed source it is being executed on an open source platform, at least in the case of linux, so that somewhat mitigates the problem. I think that the internal information to negate or bypass this will tend to spread samisdat fashion to those that need and want to know.
At least if you are on an open source platform it is probably a little easier to deal with than being on a closed source platform. Examining a closed source binary and such.
Just a little black box to lever open and suss out what's going on
h
64 • @posts 1-63 (by Linus Torvalds on 2009-07-06 21:53:38 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off topic).
65 • Mono (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-06 21:55:35 GMT from United States)
Well you sure hit on a hot topic with the "mono" issue. My feeling (based on nothing but pure paranoia, an understanding of "the way things are", and a few too many episodes of Star Trek) is that in 20 years no one will even remember or care about the whole Linux/Microsoft debate. When I look into my magical wizard's crystal ball, I see an unholy union. Wait, wait, it's coming to me...Lincrosoft or is it Micronux...well it's not too clear but the whole thing is owned by Pepsi Cola. Be forewarned my minions, the corporate machine has no master. "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile."
66 • #65 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-06 21:57:35 GMT from United States)
Just to clarify, that's a BAD thing. Apologies for the double post.
67 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 22:06:54 GMT from United States)
Thanks to Caitlyn Martin for another top-notch, informative review.
Until there is a compelling reason, Mono & C# applications should be optional, not part of a default install.
KDE 3.5 is a fine DE. It's good that PCLOS has stayed with it. PCLOS popularity was earned by sound decision making. I may take a look at 2009.2 soon.
68 • try wolvix (by m1k on 2009-07-06 22:10:22 GMT from Italy)
I will....but give also OPNESOLARIS a try....
it's fantastic!!
69 • @68 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-06 22:45:03 GMT from United States)
Wolvix is fantastic too! Catilyn is wating for final release to review it and publish it here. There is nothing in the planet like Wolvix! It is simply amazing.
Wolvix, Wolvix, Wolvix, Wolvix......
70 • @54 PCLinuxOS Live CD won't boot (by davecs on 2009-07-06 22:47:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes you have to use the second line on the LiveCD menu if you have a SATA DVD drive. Without a scsi probe, SATA drives will not be bootable. However, with the scsi probe, some older hardware locks up. Hence both the lines.
Tex has had an idea to try to simplify things, just a question of whether it can be programmed. Watch this space.
By the way, I am typing this from a KDE4 desktop in PCLinuxOS. It's not ready yet (a few niggles and a number of packages not ready yet), but seems pretty stable. Been using Firefox and Skype all evening no trouble.
71 • PCLOS - nice to see a distro that makes good choices (by Barnabyh on 2009-07-06 23:19:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good to see PCLOS is well and truely back, I d/l all three main KDE, Minime and the Gnome edition and they are running fine.
However I've recently moved back to Debian and Slackware as some new installs on old hardware were due anyway and due to a desire to get away from all that bling and just have a simple basic default desktop that I can mod to my taste without starting to get away from somebody else's, and Lenny is just fantastically stable and easy to set up.
Never thought I'ld go back to KDE but PCLOS 2007 brought me round again.
On the mono controversy, in Debian one can install the mononono package which introduces a conflict so one never ends up with it by mistake! What is it about these apps that other earlier programs aren't able to do (i.e. Rhythmbox vs Banshee?). Unnecessary bloat.
72 • pclinuxos 2009.2 (by barney67 on 2009-07-06 23:27:12 GMT from France)
and me i send this comment from pclinuxos 2009.2 Gnome flavour ;o)
i like very much , skype and sound are ok , very good work , i always enjoy this distribution
all video on the net work , no freeze , i ve a duron 1200 mhz 1go ram ;o) and no problemo
no need to pay anything , thank's to the team , great work
73 • Crazy to use Mono in the business world? (by Bryan on 2009-07-06 23:33:54 GMT from United States)
@34 - Whether you think it is sensible or not, most electronic medical records in the United States are .NET based, and advertise it proudly on their websites. IMHO, doctors are often computer-savvy, but apparently blithely accept Windows-based solutions despite the know security risks involved. Maybe this .NET craze among EMRs could result in a nice transition to Linux, however, since they may be portable to Mono...
74 • @post #69 (by Hagg YammerfleeKolosheffenhyde on 2009-07-07 00:23:36 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
75 • FreeBSD-8.0-BETA-1 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 00:26:18 GMT from United States)
Has anyone installed FreeBSD-8-beta 1? If so, will it allow you to choose a ZFS file system during install?
TIA.
76 • A distro hopping weekend (by Joe on 2009-07-07 01:06:48 GMT from United States)
- Thank you Caitlyn and Chris for another great DW Weekly.
- I tried the different flavors of PCLinuxOS this weekend on my trusty M700, Gateways, HPs, and Dells. With one exception, PCLinuxOS 2009.2, Gnome 2009.2, KDE MiniMe 2009.1, and Gnome Zen Mini 2009.1 found my hardware and presented me with nicely appointed, clean desktops. That one exception was KDE MiniMe 2009.1. Despite my efforts, it simply would not boot on the M700 (but worked fine on the other laptops and desktops). It kept dropping me to a login prompt where I'd log in as guest/root, but could never start X. Funny thing is big brother PCLinuxOS 2009.2 worked like a charm, but little brother MiniMe couldn't cut the mustard. The M700 was apparently just too much of a challenge for this Mini distro. I may just roll up my sleeves and try again later this week.
- I was very happy with KDE 3.5 on PCLinuxOS 2009.2. I'm one of those who thinks that KDE 4, and the applications that have been tweaked to run on it, aren't quite ready for prime time yet. Getting there, but....
- Also tried CentOS 5.2 (CD came with an issue of Linux Format that I was just getting around to reading), but had issues with wireless. So, I downloaded 5.3 and it installed without a hitch. It seemed very stable, wireless worked out of the box, and was one of the only distros that set my sound right off (at an acceptable volume) without my having to play with a mixer. My only negative experience occurs during shutdown when it just hangs on wlan0. Again, I may have time to dig into this again later this week.
- I tried Wolvix beta and was suitable impressed. I'd used the distro (Hunter and Cub) on an older Pentium a couple of years ago. Look forward to the release.
- After all of the rhetoric about Vector Linux, I decided to give it a try (once again on one of my trusty M700 laptops). I downloaded and burned a copy, read up on the distro and, following the documentation, partitioned my hard drive into root, home, and swap. During the install, I tried every video driver and finally settled on fbdev (okay -- it was the only one that worked). I'm satisfied with the end result. The XFCE desktop is clean, everything works, and I'm having fun removing/installing apps and configuring them just the way I want them. I'm impressed. I like Vector's XFCE desktop much better than the Linpus XFCE implementation on my Acer Aspire One. I do believe that Vector Linux has found a home on M700 #2. Once I get it completely tweaked the way I want it (for the moment anyway), I'll boot the laptop with Patrick Verner's Parted Magic 4.2 and use Steven Shiau's Clonezilla to save a copy of the image (just in case I need to wipe the drive and try another distro at a later date).
- I may just have to see what Slackware do for my Acer. I love this little netbook. It's small, quick, and versatile. But the Linpus OS is a little too basic and tame for my tastes. It's like eating plain toast when you're used to more. We'll have to see how it turns out. Worst case, I go back to a tweaked version of Linpus.
77 • @56 (by juarez on 2009-07-07 01:19:37 GMT from United States)
I see. Ideas are the problem - like cloning the first PCs from IBM, or Digital ICs, or computer languages, and on and on and on... wise up.
78 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 01:37:01 GMT from United States)
Ksplice?
Does anyone use Kexec?
What is the difference?
79 • MONO developments (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-07 02:01:46 GMT from United States)
@77: Those weren't patented, and if they were, then those patents were most likely hunted down and money was negotiated.
With that out of the way, a development drops.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3242
"...on July 6, Microsoft removed a seeming licensing hurdle for Mono by putting the licensing of the CLI (Common Language Infrastructure) and the C# programming language its “Community Promise.” Via that promise, Microsoft agrees not to “assert its Necessary Claims against anyone who makes, uses, sells, offers for sale, imports, or distributes any Covered Implementation under any type of development or distribution model, including open-source licensing models such as the LGPL or GPL.”"
This so called "promise" can be viewed here:
http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx
What does the crowd make of this?
80 • weak review (by unknown on 2009-07-07 02:18:00 GMT from Portugal)
today, cd linux review was weak, and probably it will make people go away
from that distro.
i would sugest you ppl to make reviews from well known distros.
or special distros, new, etcs.
probably people will not try cdlinux after reading.
all the rest is fine
81 • CD-Linux? (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 02:38:30 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
82 • @79 (by Dave Knoblic on 2009-07-07 02:39:15 GMT from United States)
It's obvious if the implementation of mono is pursuent to the goals of the community at large then the actual practicality of a workable, real-time, solution to the legal issues is just a "pipe dream". If the intrinsic complications are considered a stumbling block to the developement of ethical measures constricted by uninformed opinions, then the whole paradigm for future success teeters perilously on the edge of a self-created, bottomless, abyss. It is clear that the most functional model for the synthesis of mono and Linux lies with the actual application of the principles outlined in the snicker papers. If applied properly, you come up with a rather sub-par candy bar. In light of this information, I suggest that we go back to discussing something that is actually interesting like distros.
83 • Ping Caitlyn Martin. (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 03:01:50 GMT from United States)
Why don't you guys/gals @ D.W. review cool secure o/s like OpenBSD-4.5?
The last review you guys did of OpenBSD is ancient.
You install and review China based Operating Systems like CDLinux but ignore the most secure O/S to the north of America...
Why do you do that?
84 • @83 (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 03:27:40 GMT from United States)
Because they are waiting for Wolvix 2.0 to be released and all the bugs ironed out, so that it can replace Ubuntu for the #1 distro here.
No,
Seriously I don't know the answer to that. OpenBSD is very solid indeed! like the other BSD's NETBSD and FREEBSD. They are all great but are a litle bit behind linux in several things, but they are catching up. Who knows why, I was just being sarcastic, because we always here abou the "W" distribution not being satisfied with the "U" one.
85 • Funny thing about Tomboy and Debian (by FUD is not news on 2009-07-07 03:49:08 GMT from United States)
No one ever points out that Tomboy is also installed by default in Lenny.
*GASP!*
Please don't call FUD news, I'll read boycott novell if I want FUD labelled as news, DistroWatch is supposed to have a higher caliper of reporting than this.
86 • BSD reviews, choice of distros to review, non-discrimination (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-07 04:10:36 GMT from United States)
My reason for reviewing CDLinux was stated in the first sentence: it fits into a category of distribution where we had multiple requests for reviews. For those of you who don't like what I review or the way I write them I respectfully suggest that you write your own and submit them to Ladislav. He has been open to guest writers in the past and I am quite certain he will be in the future. If you can do a better job than I can then by all means: have at it!
One thing I can promise: those who want reviews of major distributions only aren't going to be satisfied. Most of the majors do get reviews here from time to time and that won't change. I have one on the way shortly. I don't think the reviews of smaller, independent distros are going away anytime soon. Those who want such reviews seriously outnumber those who don't in any case.
DistroWatch, AFAIK, does not discriminate based on national origin, either in the choice of reviews, in the choice of writers, or in any other way. The current writers reside on three different continents. I realize some people have political agendas or don't like certain countries and want to impose their views on DW. At least as far as my writing is concerned it isn't going to happen. I don't look at what country a distro originates in. All the big ones are multinational/global projects anyway.
Regarding the BSDs, I have already publicly and repeatedly stated my intention to review some. I also said that DragonFlyBSD would be first. Please remember that I hadn't run any version of BSD in a number of years until very recently. I am going to need to spend some more time with them in order to do a proper job. Since my professional work is all Linux or commercial UNIX this is happening on an as time permits basis. Please be patient. I have no intention of excluding them.
87 • What I'd like to see... (by That guy on 2009-07-07 04:24:41 GMT from Canada)
...is Distrowatch being updated so it doesn't look like a 1997 website anymore. I almost fell off my chair when I noticed you guys changed the logo. Surely you did this behind Mr Bodnar's back? There's no damn way you could have done that otherwise. Now, about that comment section.. ah hell.. never mind...
88 • @71 (by D1Knight on 2009-07-07 04:33:06 GMT from United States)
@71 "What is it about these apps that other earlier programs aren't able to do (i.e. Rhythmbox vs Banshee?). Unnecessary bloat." Here! Here! Banshee over Rhythmbox, are you serious Ubuntu? IMHO-Rhythmbox is far superior than Banshee (No ffwd or rewd buttons, last time I checked). Robert Stallman of FOSS, should be listened to. Mono(poly) is just a legal ticking time bomb. IMHO I believe we (Linux Community) is better off without mono than with. Speaking of Linux COMMUNITY, of all the posts, blogs and articles I have read over the last month, in estimation about (minimum) 2/3 are for getting rid of mono. What is main/best advantage of keeping mono in Linux? If the Linux Community has spoken out in majority to remove mono, could be something to it. Fedora (12) seems to be on the right path-No mono apps by default only repos and then developers on building alternative apps (Gnotes) instead mono apps. Just my 2 cents.Peace.
89 • DWW issue 310 (by D1Knight on 2009-07-07 05:05:00 GMT from United States)
To everyone at DWW, another great issue! Thank you, much. Have a great week!
P.S.-Any chance for reviews of the latest PCLinuxOS releases and possibly some of the Puppy flavors. Thanks in advance.
90 • #89: Review requests (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-07-07 05:13:44 GMT from United States)
PCLinuxOS: Yes, definitely.
Puppy Linux: I am no longer capable of being objective when it comes to this distro. Someone else will have to write the review(s) if they are ever going to happen.
91 • MyahOS (by win2linconvert on 2009-07-07 05:56:15 GMT from United States)
Could you please do a review of Myah OS. Thank You.
92 • @90 Review requests (by D1Knight on 2009-07-07 06:30:41 GMT from United States)
Caitlyn, glad to hear a review is forthcoming for PCLinuxOS latest releases. As far Puppy Linux, I respect your comment and I hope Puppy Linux hasn't been a bad/naughty pup (as far as quality). Cheers!
93 • reviews & dw (by Tom on 2009-07-07 06:57:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
I really enjoyed the LVM article ages ago and i like reviews that compare 2 or 3 distros with each other, perhaps one of those being the reviewers long-term, long running favourite as a base-line. Yes the surface eye-candy is interesting to hear about briefly but under-the-bonnet stuff is useful to those of us that don't really understand many of these issues yet. I also like the brief comments about forth-coming releases. One of the strengths of this weeks review was the comparison between different hardware, especially because they were both quite quirky machines. I thought this week missed a base-line comparison with soemthing similar such as TinyCore but hardly any of us appear to have tried TinyCore so such a comparison would have been meaningless anyway.
Many similar websites focus on the look of the site and really do look quite glossy and nice but all the ones i've seen have 1 thing in common - the content is weak and outdated. The glossy look also makes it difficult for some people in unusual circumstances, such as netbook users on low batteries and perhaps with poor signal strength. If it were to change then i would probably be unhappy with the colour scheme and would want to be able to choose my own as blue seems to be the only colour people seem to like, perhaps because of the influence of microsquish.
94 • spam (by Tom on 2009-07-07 07:59:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
What, no criticisms of PClinuxOS fanboys or Puppy fanboys? lol, of course not - it's ok from them. I have to say that posts like #25 annoy me because i would prefer intelligent or friendly insights, so i mostly just ignore posts like that.
It has annoyed me that any question i've asked about Wolvix tends to get ignored or i would be "told off" for "spamming" while similar questions about other distros often get some good answers. The post from Joe was interesting about PClinux, CentOS & Vector but what insights does he offer about Wolvix? No attempt to use the stable releases and see what updates he could get or whether "wireless worked out of the box" and nothing about struggling with video drivers. It seems that Wolvix worked well and easily on his machine (unlike the other distros he tried) and therefore he wont be using it until after its final release. While it's up to Joe what he does with his time and on his machines and great to see that at least he tried it recently before commenting it is also disappointing that all he can find to say is "i was impressed"
95 • @76 (by davecs on 2009-07-07 08:05:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi Joe, the problem you describe with PCLinuxOS Mini-Me is not that it's failed to boot, otherwise you wouldn't be able to log in. It's that it hasn't set up the video correctly. I don't know the M700 but I'm guessing (could be wrong of course!) it needs ATi or nVidia drivers which are present on the "full" editions but have to be downloaded on the Mini-Me edition. On one or two video systems, the free xorg drivers don't work correctly and you need the proprietary ones or the vesa ones to get a graphics screen.
Can you try running it as "Vesa safe mode" (or similar) you might get a desktop though possibly not the resolution you want. Then set up the wireless and install the driver using the tool in the Utilities folder.
Would be interested to know if this helps. Obviously in making a mini-me version, it's important that what we don't do is leave off stuff that you need to get started.
96 • Monomania (by sertse on 2009-07-07 08:23:51 GMT from Australia)
Re: Tom. 93 PCLOS gets plenty of criticism, any discussion of the distro inevitably also discusses the heavy moderation of the forums. so I'm not really seeing what you're seeing.
I know I'm on the record on "telling you off" last week Tom, but I realised since, that the best way for me is probably to ignore things I'm not interested in , and encourage discussion on topics I'm interested in instead! I do find your comments useful in other topics. :)
With that, to Mono!
The most productive way to address Mono, if you disagree is to develop better apps not using Mono. The main that gets knots in people's panties is Distro X is using Mono in Y. If you got a app instead that better anyways, you don't even need to address the Mono question. E.g. If you don't like banshee, an Mono app to be included in X, it's probably to argue app Y, e.g. Exalie is better for user rather than go on a Mono rant. :)
As for Debian and mono, can someone clarify, the DWW got me confused. The official "preferred" method of installation, the net-install goes to Gnome by default (if you change nothing and just click next for all steps). Does the gnome in that bring in Mono? Other the otherhand, does the 700mb cd with the desktop included (which also goes to Gnome by default unless you specific d/l the KDE/XFCE/LXDE), include mono?
97 • DWW (by win2linconvert on 2009-07-07 08:50:09 GMT from United States)
I am only a casual computer user and fairly new to linux, but I really enjoy DW and DWW and appriciate the job you guys & gals are doing. Maybe I'm just too new to the Linux world to understand the complaints of others, but I enjoy hearing about all the different distros/choices out there. Anyway, thanks for your hard work, commitment, and informative articles.
98 • 96 sertse (by Tom on 2009-07-07 09:07:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Lol, nice one. A clever post and looking back i see what you mean :)
I get the impression that Debian 'only' installs Mono by default if you 'choose' the gnome De but i didn't realise that was the default De in 2 out of the ?? standard ways of installing Debian lol. So not always by default but just normally by default ;) I do agree about voting with your feet and just using alternatives if you don't like the suggested route although i would want a quick play to see what the fuss is about. In terms of herding cats maybe we should try to force all the devs to use Mono and then they would resist using it more ;)
99 • I confess (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-07 10:11:51 GMT from United States)
I didn't know what the hell "mono" was until I just now Googled it. I have not read all of every single post with the word mono in the subject line or in the posted comments.
For those of you who have also been skimming and/or who just don't know:
"Mono 2.4 has been released! The Mono Project aims to make developers productive and happy: Mono 2.4 is our gift to the world. Sponsored by Novell (http://www.novell.com), the Mono open source project has an active and enthusiastic contributing community and is positioned to become the leading choice for development of Linux applications."
(the above quote from the mono website at http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page)
I take it that it is the "Sponsored by Novell" that has generated the ongoing discussion in here.
Cool.
100 • @86 - Caitlyn and the BSDs (by Miq on 2009-07-07 10:14:41 GMT from Sweden)
Cait, could I ask you to not only review DragonFlyBSD, but precede that review with an article comparing, or outlining, the different BSD flavours?
I would also enjoy a similar article contrasting at large the Linuxen with the BSDs and with Opensolaris.
101 • 100 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-07 10:51:47 GMT from United States)
I agree with the small "overview" idea. I am very curious about BSD as are, I assume, others. The BSD's I have tried seem to me like monolithic beasts, slow and cumbersome. Yet, still they fascinate me. I would really like to know how to get any of them up and running with Flash player and all of the things that a user would want. Are there repositories? Do you have to compile endlessly for things to work? Is there really a BSD that would give Linux a run for it's money on the desktop? For the record, I liked your review of CDLinux and I am glad you won't discriminate based on national origin. I must point out however, the recent and shocking human rights violations in China along with the fact that they are illegally occupying Tibet. As for Puppy, one has to respect your decision when stated in that manner. I would like to see a review of it though because love it or hate it, it is consistently in the top ten. I have seen in the past that there might be a major issue with quality control over there.
102 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-07 12:47:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref #99
Well you seemed to have sussed the hyperbolic hype associated with in house press releases...if one was to believe half what was mentioned in any press copy you think "their" product" was the only thing keeping the planet spinning on its axis.
Anyway, if Mono is sponsored, allegedly, by Novell and it is, allegedly, open source code...and even more interestingly..."their gift to the world..." then it's a job for the lawyers, not for idle speculation on any forum, LOL.
Ref #100/101
Hmm, I sense a polite but slightly dusty response from CM...along the lines of "please visit forums..." and, "I have to earn a crust..." But I could be wrong...
However EV, you have raised a rather interesting point on ethics. I find I am more drawn to the spread and take up of GNULinux stuff than the minutia of how packages work...which candidly is a bit dry for me and I never have any real bother with Uxx or Mintxx, which just work....for me...on my hardware...
[As a quick aside, for devotees of PCLinuxOS, please glance at this item:
http://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.com/2008/04/another-indian-pclinuxos-remaster.html
Not the most up to date copy admittedly but if you read on it just demonstrates how widespread GNULinux is. (There further reference to a KarachiOS, albeit a duffer, indigenous to Pakistan). I feel this further undermines any psuedo figures produced by MS to rubbish any other OS than its own.]
I admit to being a bit saddened by the revelation (but I should not have been really) by the willingness, if that is the correct term, for something intended for everyone's benefit to be moulded into a tool for keeping tabs on what folk think, do and say.
Having said that of course we have Echelon ( see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON), so I suppose these other authorities are only playing catchup.
And of course, it's a bit difficult to take the moral high ground when deprecating another's use of open source code.
103 • @102 (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-07 13:22:39 GMT from United States)
Forest said, "Well you seemed to have sussed the hyperbolic hype associated with in house press releases..."
I don't know what "sussed the hyperbolic hype" means, although I do know what hyperbole is and that hype is a shortened term for the same thing, rendering your phrase there redundant.
That means I have to look up sussed. Hang on...
.."..to infer or figure out."
ok.
104 • Mono, what good is it? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-07-07 13:22:57 GMT from United States)
Its open source software that even the Free Software Foundation cannot say not to use it. No one has proved that Mono should not be used nor given any reasons backed up by solid fact. Most Mono FUD is just that. I don't use Mono but I can't condemn anyone who does. Just the facts please.
105 • #102 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-07 13:41:53 GMT from United States)
Forest, I have visited the websites and forums and have found them "wanting" when it comes to new users. I have the sense that BSD is mainly confined to universities and there is a professorial snobbery associated with it. Now if I am wrong then please correct me. I will be most appreciative.
Caitlyn clearly has a gift for articulating complex ideas in terms that a layman can easily grasp. I was simply suggesting that maybe she could give us a brief overview of what makes BSD "tick" differently than Linux. I would find this interesting. I am keenly interested in her experience with Dragon Fly BSD. I would really like to know what is required to set it up and build a workable desktop os. Is it worth it? Is there any advantage to doing this ie better stability, better security etc. Caitlyn is uniquely qualified to do this because of her enterprise experience and her talent for precise explication.
As for ethics, I can't believe that there isn't more of an outcry about the ethnic cleansing of the Tibetians. Thousands of them have been tortured and killed by the Chinese and it barely makes the headlines. The Dali Lama was forced to flee to India where he resides in exile from his own country. Well I don't want to get too political here, we all know where that leads...
106 • @104 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-07 13:43:11 GMT from United States)
I was hoping to keep this for my story, but I'll elaborate.
Mono is an implementation of Microsoft's standard computer language, C#, of which is used for .Net. The Mono project was started without Novell or Microsoft, but as it grew, it picked up Novell for help. C# is a programming language that is much easier to maintain and write than other C languages, and programs written with Mono are usually faster to develop.
The fear stems from the fact that C# is a Microsoft technology. They have patents on .Net technology. In this area, both sides of the Mono debate has been yelling a whole bunch, but no actual proof has been leveraged.
Could Microsoft sue Mono or a distro that uses it? Absolutely. Will they? We don't know. They have added Mono to their "promise" to not sue anyone, which is a new development. Does that mean anything? Can we trust a technology developed by a monolithic corporation, one that is the largest competitor to Linux today?
Ubuntu uses F-Spot and Tomboy, two major Mono applications, and have said that once Banshee reaches their requirements it will be added. This is because Rhythmbox is more or less reached the end of the line due to codebase issues; you may have noticed that it hasn't changed much in two years. Mono is an extra 50 MB dependency for any programs that use it, which is quite a bit of space on a LiveCD. OpenSUSE uses practically every Mono application it can find on its Gnome LiveCD's, which Fedora uses none.
107 • #45 (by Ricardo N. on 2009-07-07 14:06:26 GMT from United States)
No, it (W) does not have KDE4. It comes with Xfce as the default. However you can easily install (with 2 clicks) Enlightment, LXDE (well maybe 5 clicks but the instructions are there), Openbox, and many others. Here is how it looks with the default wallpaper and Enlightenment:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LVcteDhakDg/SlEMYhs_Y9I/AAAAAAAAAdo/80-9O370TS4/s1600-h/Screenshot.png
Of course the wm is not the os, and the os is based on Slackware which is notoriously stable.
108 • No Mono in Kde? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-07-07 14:07:41 GMT from United States)
Am I correct in thinking that there is no Mono in KDE?
109 • A bit more on .NET (and, by extension, Mono) (by Pearson on 2009-07-07 14:45:42 GMT from United States)
Visual Basic also uses .NET now[1]. So, that's a *major* development environment that uses .NET. I believe that Mono allows those VB programs to be available in Linux[2][3]. I know of one commercial product that my wife uses[4] that is developed in VB, and is about the only reason I keep Windows installed. If it were built using Mono, I'd probably install Mono.
[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx
[2] http://www.mono-project.com/Visual_Basic
[3] http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1289
[4] http://www.pcstitch.com/
110 • @108 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-07 14:52:40 GMT from United States)
No. While Mono is being pushed by de Icaza, the founder of Gnome, KDE is getting its own Mono apps as well.
111 • Mono apps users care about (by Sertse on 2009-07-07 14:59:42 GMT from Australia)
Emphasising again that Mono doesn't matter if better apps exist, regardless. So, let's see what are the main Mono apps users actually care about, and approach it that way
Tomboy and FSpot are the main ones that are tied with Gnome, I think. Banshee is a popular media player, but imo Exaile and Songbird challenges it a alternatives anyways, so it doesn't matter as much.
Aside from that, Gnome Do is the other mono app, but not much else I could think of.
112 • G4 PowerMac (by Tom on 2009-07-07 15:38:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ok, someone's set me a challenge i can't meet. Any ideas what to try on a Mac G4_400-500mhz cpu with 1 Gb ram and currently running os9. I can nearly but not quite remember something aimed specifically at 'old' Macs?
Thanks in advance,
Regards from
Tom :)
113 • re#112 (by hab on 2009-07-07 15:50:47 GMT from Canada)
IIRC Tom that g4 has a ppc processor so prolly yellow dog linux would work. It's aimed at ppcs.
h
114 • It isn't FUD (by Duhnonymous on 2009-07-07 15:51:19 GMT from United States)
If you're told about possible legal actions by a group of renowned lawyers, you are being *warned* about a problem, and don't be surprised when Microsoft lawyers come knocking on your door, papers in hand. Just because there is nothing technically wrong with using Mono, doesn't mean Microsoft isn't going to try to roll the dice one day, and their first target is very likely going to be developers foolish enough to use C#.
On the other hand, if someone tells you outright that some C# code written for a Linux program infringes patents, then *that* would be FUD.
115 • @112 (by Jose Mirles on 2009-07-07 16:01:43 GMT from United States)
http://us.fixstars.com/support/hardware/apple-powermac-g4.shtml
Yellowdog will handle it.
116 • @114 (by Dave Knoblic on 2009-07-07 16:05:00 GMT from United States)
I already addressed these issues in #82. I don't know why you are unable to see that. Please stop going around and around about the same thing.
117 • PCLOS (by Anonymous on 2009-07-07 16:10:42 GMT from United States)
Anyone heard if there is going to be a PCLOS 2009.2 XFCE edition. I really liked the last one it had a bit of Gnome in it but not too much to slow it down and everything seemed to work OK. It reminded me of the old SAM linux which to me at the time was pretty amazing.
118 • # 89 (by Pancho Jácome on 2009-07-07 16:24:15 GMT from Ecuador)
Good suggestion, a review of PCLinuxOS 2009.2 would be very nice.
119 • G4 Mac YellowDog (by Tom on 2009-07-07 17:01:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
@113 hab &
@115 Jose Mirles
Thanks chaps :)) I've suggested they try a LiveCd session of it :))
120 • Mono: Caused by GTK's bad API (by GTK sucks on 2009-07-07 17:15:30 GMT from Germany)
The main reason why Mono is getting any foothold in Linux applications at all is that some groups of people insist on using GTK - a toolkit that mostly works for users, but is really really bad for programmers using its native API.
The GObject system, if used directly, is very cumbersome to develop for, hard to learn (and requires rather verbose code even if you know what you're doing), and quite error prone.
This has caused developers to switch to various wrappers making it somewhat less cumbersome and error prone - PyGTK, Java, and now Mono.
None of the other toolkits -- be it Qt, FOX, FLTK, or even plain old Motif (which shares quite a few of GTK's problems, but at least has a slightly more consistent API design) -- have gone through or needed that much wrapping.
Maybe it's time to solve the problem at its root instead of starting at the top -- put an end to GTK and Mono will disappear by itself.
Everyone but M$ wins -- Linux gets a more unified and better graphical API, Mono is reduced to being "wine for .net applications" without all the patent pain for people sticking to native applications, programmers stop going mad over trying to figure out GObject.
121 • @119 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-07 17:33:13 GMT from United States)
Tom, try this link:
http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=powerpc&status=Active
122 • @117 (by Joe on 2009-07-07 18:07:26 GMT from United States)
I understand they're working on PCLinuxOS XFCE - Phoenix edition. There's an interview in the latest PCLinuxOS magazine and they have a forum set up.
Go to http://www.pclinuxos.com/. You'll find links to their forums and to their magazine (lower right).
123 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-07 18:22:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref #103
Redundant phraseology, somebody mentioned we were not using tautology enough...me actually...so I just repeated myself.
Ref #82. In all truth I don't think we understood everything you wrote...but sort of guessed your meaning...but as you have discovered the final tin hat is only final at the end of play...everybody wants to get their point across...that's the only trouble with forums I find, LOL.
I think it will be the legal ramifications apropos Mono which will be the more important; as remarked earlier, today is today and tomorrow is a test case. But it does seem to be splitting hairs to say the Mono code is OK...but using C# is up for debate...how weird is that?
Ref #105...Sorry EV, it was not intended as a dig. I just thought you were chancing your luck, LOL.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on ethics, ref Tibet and another even smaller suzerainty of China's which I can't remember the name of at this instant.
What is very heartening is that whatever the authorities do, there or Iran (or Iraq even...) the truth will out...somehow.
Now does anyone know if sat phones run GNULinux...?
124 • Mono-logues (by forest on 2009-07-07 18:29:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just in:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft-moves-C-NET-CLI-to-community-license-helps-Mono/1246980965
125 • re#123 sat phone linux (by hab on 2009-07-07 18:39:46 GMT from Canada)
Just had a quick look forest, and it appears most sat phones run on vxworks from wind river systems. They are involved in embeded aerospace applications as well.
ms looks like it has a tiny chunk with what i believe is win ce. No mention of linux.
Some more research is prolly required.
cheers
126 • promises (by Tom on 2009-07-07 19:10:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
So microsquish makes a few promises and we believe them because they have shown how honourable and trustworthy they are in the past?
127 • @94 - Missing Insights from @76 (by Joe on 2009-07-07 19:50:50 GMT from United States)
Ah. I thought “impressed” summed up my experience with Wolvix 2.0 Beta 2. It's not perfect, but it's looking pretty good. I initially ran it on a desktop, so determining whether wireless worked out of the box wasn't an option. So, to rectify the situation, I dusted off one of me trusty M700s and put Wolvix through it's paces.
The testing platform is a Compaq Armada M700, Pentium III Coppermine CPU, 1GHz, with 512MB of RAM. The video controller is an ATI Rage Mobility P/M AGP 2x. Soundcard is ES1978 Maestro 2E. Network connections are an internal Intel Ethernet Pro 100, and a PCMCIA Netgear WG511T card. If you're doing a similar test, an easy way to get a snapshot of your hardware is to boot using Parted Magic and run the Hardware Information application. If you're running the Wolvix live CD, go to the Wolvix Control Panel and click on HW Info. If you're using Windows, you could get the same information using Belarc Advisor or SIW.
When the live CD boots up, you have the option of clicking on F2 to review several pages of boot options that you can use to help with the installation. In my case, I opted to boot with the defaults. Wolvix uses a default frame buffer resolution of 1024x768@16bpp (vga=791), which was a good match for my video hardware, and it booted to the desktop uneventfully.
The desktop itself was what I view as a typical XFCE configuration. The logo is nice -- not over the top like some I've encountered. If I was using someone else's PC, I would consider sticking with the live CD option. But, at home, I prefer to run operating systems from a hard drive or USB stick. Since the M700 won't boot from USB, I opted to install to the hard drive. I opened the Wolvix Control Panel, selected the HD Install option, used gparted to create swap, root, and home partitions, and let the install begin. Once completed, I opted for the GUI Logon, selected my default screen resolution, and selected the boot partition.
After rebooting and logging on, the first thing I did was change the root password using passwd and add a new user using adduser (I know, pretty easy to remember these commands). When you add the new user, and are prompted to enter additional groups, make sure you click the up arrow to select the audio cdrom floppy plugdev video groups. Then, I logged onto the new user account and proceeded to tailor the screen to my preferences -- things like extending the lower panel to full width, and decreasing it's height to 24 pixels. I'll go back and enable autohide if I decide that I need the additional screen real estate at a later time.
And, the moment you've been waiting for, wireless worked right out of the box. I simply clicked Network Manager and Wicd Manager opened with a list of all the wireless signals in my area. I selected my SSID, went into Advanced Settings and entered my WPA passphrase, and clicked connect. Easy enough.
Applications are easy to get to using the XFCE Menu button on the lower control panel, or right-clicking anywhere on the screen, and clicking on Applications. The mix of applications is good and should satisfy the needs of most users. You can always use gslapt to add new applications, but you may want to add other repositories if you need anything cutting edge.
I was able to successfully play my music and movie DVDs using Exaile and Mplayer without having to hunt for codecs.
Although I haven't had time to thoroughly test every application, I noticed a couple of things that need a bit of work. Shoutcast streams didn't play when launched from Streamtuner. Audacious started and opened a file window and just waited for me to select a file to play. The short term fix is to launch Audacious first, then launch the Shoutcast stream from within Streamtuner.
Pidgin 2.5.5 (the installed version) will not work with Yahoo Messenger. Since most of my family uses Yahoo Messenger, I need that feature to work. The problem is resolved in version 2.5.7 and above, but the newer versions aren't available in the default repositories.
Other than that, I'm impressed (but I though I said that initially) and look forward to the upcoming release of Wolvix 2.0.
128 • WOW (by Tom on 2009-07-07 20:11:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks Joe, i think that's the first time i've ever read anyone really trying out a Wolvix-beta. I am seriously impressed! Thanks :)))
129 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-07 20:23:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref #127
LOL Firstly, to Tom, you got in there first...vindication!!!
And to Joe...I think you have a career as a distro review guru...your report...succinct, detail as to your gear could not really be faulted.
Excellent, well done both.
130 • #127 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-07 20:47:52 GMT from United States)
Wow, instead of bashing it someone actually tried it. I really didn't see that coming. Tom has been shouting about Wolvix for quite a while, I guess he was right. Good going. Well "Joe", I think I will be inclined to listen to your opinion about other distros as well if you feel inclined to share your experiences. Nicely done. Now Tom also keeps bringing up Tiny Core. I did try an early version and I liked it. However it cannot replace DSL. There really is a hole where DSL used to be, if it is indeed dead. DSL would run on machines that Tiny Core won't. I don't like the recent releases of Tiny Core as well as the earlier ones. Things keep appearing and then disappearing and I just don't have time to keep up with what is where.
131 • #127, 128, 129, 130 (by anticapitalista on 2009-07-07 21:25:04 GMT from Greece)
127 - That was a good 'review' of Wolvix.
128-130 - People have tried Wolvix, but don't necessary feel the need to post their (full) experience of it in the comments section of Distrowatch.
Just think if everyone did that. (Actually maybe that would be a good idea ;) )
132 • @127-130 (by Joe on 2009-07-07 21:35:52 GMT from United States)
Sorry. I used to do IT hardware and software evaluations and tended to be thorough (as you've probably already surmised). As I started typing, I found that it was like writing a story of my experience with Wolvix from start to finish (and the journey is not yet finished). And, who wants to read a story if part of the story line is missing? Next time I find myself getting that long winded, I'll ask Ladislav if he's interested in the info for a review. :-)
133 • Comment hit page (by Mold on 2009-07-07 21:40:02 GMT from United States)
There needs to be a blogger distro hit ranking. Something to put Wolvix in its place.
134 • @127 (by Eyes-Only on 2009-07-07 21:44:09 GMT from United States)
Great read Joe!! =) Umm... ever consider doing some of these for DWW in addition to the crew already present? I think your fair reviews, like Caitlyn's, Chris's, and Ladislav's, would be a very welcomed read and enjoyable experience for us!
Excellent job well done mate! 5 stars in a 1 to 5 rating. :)
Like Elder V - I didn't see this coming either so it likewise caught me totally by surprise. LOL! This has been an extremely enjoyable DWW this week. I enjoyed Caitlyn's review of CDLinux very much and I'm heartily looking forward to her review of DragonflyBSD - something I've always wanted to try myself yet never could quite figure out ( left me scratching my head ). But I'm still enjoying my Debris install ever since her review on that one! 8-)
Amicalement/Cheers!
Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
135 • @131 (by Joe on 2009-07-07 21:46:48 GMT from United States)
Thanks. I didn't start out to do a review. I just wanted to pass along my experiences with the distro. A little long winded, yes. So, considering it was a tad too long, I decided to put the ABCs of writing above my monitor. Accuracy, Brevity, and Clarity; then, I underlined Brevity. ;-)
136 • Fit and Finish Fedora (by Mold on 2009-07-07 22:19:09 GMT from United States)
LOL. The "Fedora isn't for everyone" team launches creates Fit and Finish web page. They should use "deb" packages and "aptitude" also!
137 • @126 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-07 22:44:12 GMT from United States)
The promise agreement that Microsoft has placed themselves under has the power of a contract in court. While WHAT exactly Microsoft has put under their promise is a little vague (as I mentioned before - I posted the news story in #79) the actual promise itself is actually quite binding.
If Mono in its entirety is under the promise, there's no reason NOT the believe it, because in a court that promise would make them look like a fool. They simply could not win, no matter how much power they had.
So, yes, the promise matters much more than you might guess.
138 • re: 120 Mono: Caused by GTK's bad API (by Elmer FUD on 2009-07-07 22:51:36 GMT from United States)
Couldn't agree more. Well said. It's time for the all-Qt desktop:
environment - KDE 4
browser - Opera
e-mail - Kmail
music - amarok
media - VLC
photos - digiKam
productivity - OpenOffice (feel free to correct but my understanding is it's truly neither Qt nor GTK)
burner - K3b
text - Kate
Gnome guys always amuse me: 'Qt is junk; it's slow, it uses too much memory and I won't have anything to do with it... well, except for amarok, Rhythmbox blows and Banshee is slow... and K3b, it's the best burner... and I've got some media files that will only open in VLC...' How many Qt apps do you have to have before we can fairly call you a Qt user?
139 • whoops, forgot these two (by Elmer FUD on 2009-07-07 23:03:48 GMT from United States)
phone - Skype
mapping - Google Earth
140 • @138 and 139 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-07 23:25:09 GMT from United States)
Eh? Is someone holding you back from creating that environment, or am I missing something?
I tried KDE 4.2. I liked it, but it's obviously not finished. I'd hold off on migration to KDE for a year or so, personally.
I'm always amused by people who suggest we should remove choice. Oh, how you Qt fans make me chuckle! I am neither here nor there when it comes to Gtk or Qt (I used LXDE and mixed them both into the pot) but can you honestly say with a straight face that the Linux community and development team will ever nail down to one GUI standard?
What boggles the mind is that not only do you think it's plausible, but you actually desire it. No accounting for taste, eh? Nobody likes Rhythmbox or Gnome or Banshee, blah blah blah.
I happen to like Firefox more than Opera. What then?
141 • Re: 138 (by Sertse on 2009-07-08 00:39:13 GMT from Australia)
Firstly, you realised you just bought in pretty much KDE in that setup? I'll love to see a no KDE qt desktop - but that's impossible. Unlike non-gnome gtk desktops...
Anyways.
No Gnome user uses Kmail; don't tell me you're actually arguing Kmail is better than Thunderbird/Evolution/Slyheed/Claws etc etc.
Amarok has been a rant fest since it moved since the KDE 4 version, so it's no better than gtk apps. So no go there.
VLC: Mplayer is neutral and by most accounts equal or better
Text: Kate has no real advantages
Opera: Debatable, no clear advantage
K3b is the only real example you have that is actually superior.
to your final question "How many Qt apps do you have to have before we can fairly call you a Qt user?"
You're making the mistake of basing your personal opinion as fact, when reality is that the gtk alternative are on par, and it's come back down on personal taste.
Ok, now that we can admit, it's just personal preference (and not better) so let's account personal taste, VLC and Opera (which are qt/not gtk) are the only ones people would consider actually switching to, when you're mainly a main gtk desktop
Now I ask you "Are you actually suggesting 2 apps is enough to say someone to fairly call someone a Qt-user?"
I'll leave for DW readers to draw thier own conclusions
142 • RE: PowerPC Linux and PcLinuxOS (by ChiJoan on 2009-07-08 06:13:11 GMT from United States)
I read that Puppy Linux will have a PowerPC Puplet Live CD. I tried Ubuntu 6.00 PowerPC Live, then an OpenSuse 11.1 install, but with no Adobe Flash for the PowerPC platform yet, I found a copy of Mac Tiger OS 10.4 for my used Mac G4 tower.
PcLinuxOS where's the KDE's System Info application? The latest Live CD did boot up faster than the latest Ubuntu Karmic CD.
Thanks for another great read Distrowatch,
Joan in Reno
143 • Re: 141 - Skype & SMPlayer (by Ariszló on 2009-07-08 07:06:00 GMT from Hungary)
"VLC: Mplayer is neutral and by most accounts equal or better"
And SMPlayer is its best front-end: a Qt app.
"K3b is the only real example you have that is actually superior. "
Did you miss comment #139? Skype is a Qt app, too.
144 • Whatever next? (by forest on 2009-07-08 07:23:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just saw this...now its my turn to book a request for a review...but the release date is still a bit hazy...
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26151/53/
145 • #117 pclinuxos xfce; #142 flash for ppc linux (by gnomic on 2009-07-08 07:42:57 GMT from New Zealand)
As mentioned above in another comment, there is a pclinuxos xfce version in the works which is described as rc1 - having run it, this seems overly optimistic. Tried it on two laptops, one wouldn't boot. Troubleshooting was made more difficult by the boot screen colour rendering screen text about options unreadable. Wireless wouldn't connect to an open access point, a runaway process was using 95% of cpu etc etc. Looks good but needs work. At this stage doesn't seem to be up to the standard of other 2009.2 editions.
About ppc flash, afraid this is a lost cause. I think I am safe in saying there will never be Flash for ppc linux. I don't know whether any open source substitute is at least partially functional in Fedora or Opensuse.
146 • No subject (by Tom on 2009-07-08 08:00:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
"No Gnome user" is tricky to say and sounds a lot like "No known user" because the g and k are meant to be silent, anyway "There's always 1" *rolls eyes* - as the saying goes. I guess tho that once you've installed all the dependencies for Kmial it's debatable whether you're still a gnome user sao perhaps the statement is right after all ;) heheheheh
Slackware has at last jumped up from somewhere down around 29th place up to 13th in just under a week! and if you look at the chart for the last 7days then it's even more startling to see it's jumped right up to 6th place! While most disttros tend to stay fairly constant or jump only 1 or 2 places per week we again see that slackware distros are highly mobile & once people start looking seriously they get really swept up by them, even the toughest one in the family! While the forums seem to be at linuxquestions.org the main slackware website seems to be temporarily down? Has anyone else had trouble getting there? Is this likely to be due to increased traffic bringing their servers down too?
147 • ChromeOS again (by forest on 2009-07-08 09:58:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref Google pitching up with ChromeOS, there is an interesting(?) opinion that folk running MS are, unwittingly, using open source stuff associated with Google apps. See here:
http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2336&blogid=14
I have to say I love the irony here, Google, once considered a "mere" search engine by MS, no more than an irritant, seems more than capable of "defending" itself on the internet and going on the offensive if you will, bypassing MS and going for the OS directly.
Almost as though Google is saying, "most people get onto the internet at some point...so don't waste your time with using MSxx...come straight to us, LOL".
Obviously there will be plenty of apps which need to run in MSxx but as far as internet connections go I take Google to be saying "if it's just the internet you want...come on in".
Then there's the cloud of course...if you are already in an OS-cum-browser...would you bother to enter the cloud via MS?
Mind you, would you bother to enter the cloud in the first place...?
148 • Re. 100 (by uz64 on 2009-07-08 11:06:25 GMT from United States)
"I would also enjoy a similar article contrasting at large the Linuxen with the BSDs and with Opensolaris."
For an excellent read on Linux vs. BSD, check out this article:
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php
It's very informative. I don't recall any equally-good comparison articles with Solaris, though.
149 • post #140 (by Todd R. on 2009-07-08 11:46:30 GMT from United States)
That's a great post about linux configurability, N.I.
Forgive me, but I like the one(s) you're responding to by Elmer, too. But you hit the 'what linux is all about' nail on the head, methinks.
I don't yet have the skills to do what you're doing with your environment, but I do see the light at the end of the tunnel now and then (insert 'oncoming train' joke here).
150 • Chrome...again (by forest on 2009-07-08 11:59:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Looks like MS is getting some damage limitation in...
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=1065
All quite useless of course...ChromeOS has got to get established first and then folk will try it out...could be a bit of an "own goal" to suggest people have "given (sic) leave of their senses"...if they even take the announcement seriously. As in you have to be stupid to try it, hmm that should go down well...
Typical of allegedly informed journo spin, LOL. Nobody really can say what will happen 'til after the event.
Back to an extant OS, UK's very own "Crunchbang". The last release could be said to be almost the last epitome in black minimalism. I had it installed on my venerable Toshi Sat; 256 ram, clocking 1500MHz and it just worked out of the box. Installed to h/d it was reasonably fast.
I won't go to Joe's lengths as on Wolvix, but I would say it's worth a look...then you can decide for yourselves...as usual.
151 • GoogleOS Warning (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-08 12:06:08 GMT from United States)
This link was posted here a while ago but it is still worth looking at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman
152 • Google OS (by Paramahansa Garcia on 2009-07-08 12:34:14 GMT from United States)
I wonder if it will be featured here. Or on the page hits list.
Linux kernel and all.
Inquiring minds need to know. :^0
153 • @152 (by Pedro Yogananda on 2009-07-08 12:37:18 GMT from United States)
I'm sure it will be here.
Anything open source is here. Even Novell products.
154 • Crunchbang (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-08 12:39:13 GMT from United States)
I had tried 8.10.02 and found it to be a good release. Not all that faster than Ubuntu alone, but a much better program selection. And I like Openbox.
I look forward to trying out this new one!
155 • crunchbang & chrome (by Tom on 2009-07-08 13:35:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Crunchbang doesn't do LiveCd it just installs straight wiping the drive! Arrgh lol, but seriously take care because i can't remember getting any choices about partitioning and stuff with this one, but that was back when i was a total noob
Chrome, i don't get it. First you boot 1 OS that's on your hard-drive, then you open a web-browser and suddenly your Cpu is dealing with 2 OS's rather than just 1. I could see an advantage if grub (or replacement?) booted up the OS that's held on someone else's machine - that would seem to be hugely advantageous if you trust those suits in a large company. Although it's probably going to be faster than Windows (err, that kinda goes without saying doesn't it?) surely some of it's speed is going to depend on an additional cache and connection speed/reliability? Presumably people are going to need a dual-boot for when they can't connect because they've reached their download limit at the end of the month? I really don't get chrome. A fad or The Future?
156 • #150 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-08 13:44:26 GMT from United States)
Someone please tell me if I am missing something. ChromeOS: you boot up into a browser. Is that it? This is a new idea that is going to change the world as we know it? Read this hype on the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8139711.stm
157 • ZdNet article (by Tom on 2009-07-08 14:49:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Oooo, i read the FUD in there and got really riled. Anyone that i've disliked in here is really a friend when i peek at nonsense like this
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=1065
I made a typo in my post there, i put "Linus" rather than "Linux" but then realised that Torvald's first name spelt that way :) Phew :)))
158 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-08 14:49:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re #156
Nope, I don't think so EV. Don't forget a lot of folk just use their machines for email and surfing and consequent online retail...and seem perfectly content with "just" that.
You and I might do other stuff on our machine(s) but as far as I can fathom this ChromeOS is aimed at folk who spend a lot of time on the internet doing what "they" do...each to his or her own of course. Doing the tautology bit, again, "it's a distro, Jim, but..."
I suppose it does make sense to have a scaled down version for scaled down activities. We do read the occasional crit that some distros are bloated, so maybe this is a/one/the answer, who knows? it's not out yet per se so who can give a definitive answer?
It might make sense too if it is to fit on slow/small platforms.
One thing though, the computering press is like an anthill...after somebody prodded it with a chrome plated stick...groan...
See here, yet again:
http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/07/google-announces-chrome-os-a-n.html
159 • 157 (by Tom on 2009-07-08 14:50:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
I can't really think of anyone i dislike in here. Arguing is one thing but everyone in here seems pretty cool even if i don't agree with you all all the time :)
160 • re#156 chrome polish (by hab on 2009-07-08 14:58:04 GMT from Canada)
Chromeos is a google product with a linux kernel and a new windowing system.
See here: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html for the gory details.
h
161 • Element (by E.V. on 2009-07-08 15:11:35 GMT from United States)
Anyone know what this is:
Element
http://www.elementmypc.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1
162 • @148 (by Joe on 2009-07-08 15:11:47 GMT from United States)
That was a good read on Linux and BSD. The author had me scratching my head a few times, but I think I have a better understanding of the history and the management and deployment concepts now. Never did understand "ports". Guess I can't say that now. Thanks.
163 • re#161 missing element (by hab on 2009-07-08 15:31:20 GMT from Canada)
Grabbed a quick look at the link, and it looks like a linux distro. Kinda pretty and macish looking. Don't know what it is based on.
Looks kinda interesting so i'll keep an eye on it. Doesn't look like it's been released yet.
h
164 • more missing element (by hab on 2009-07-08 15:58:33 GMT from Canada)
Ok, it is ubuntu based and is a distro for media centre type comps.
h
165 • Chrome on Xfce? (by Tom on 2009-07-08 16:26:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Right beside where it said "Rethinking the Desktop Operating System" that picture looked a lot like xfce to me but i thought chrome was planning on Kde. So far i seem to have read a lot about it but learnt almost nothing except that it's just seems to be a minimal OS but with complete hardware support, drivers and all that installed on a local drive but with just 1 app being their web-browser. This doesn't really look all the revolutionary to me now. Surely Unix systems used to have remote workstation terminals?
166 • re#165 (by hab on 2009-07-08 16:42:07 GMT from Canada)
Think, perhaps, netbook as a home for chromeos Tom. Or some other (relatively) low resource box.
I don't know which apps it will ship with, but it being linux and all, i can't see that it would be difficult to install software from outside the official sources.
h
167 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-08 16:46:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref the current mini debate on ChromeOS...it would be quite amusing if it experienced the same sort of thing that is often mentioned on this forum...namely the woes of not being able to install, or load or log on or run...
Tom, you are quite right about substance...and I would hazard a guess Google are doing a spoiler against W7, as in some folk might be tempted to hang on a bit to see what ChromeOS comes up with, thus not buying W7 straight away.
We have seen already how quick some journo came out with a damage limitation excercise, so MS must be taking it quite seriously.
Perhaps MS have sussed that Google has, for want of a better expression, deep pockets but LONG arms...plus the fact it is probably a testosterone thing anyway.
168 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-08 16:49:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
You've got to laff...now Ubuntu is worried about feeling the draft, sort of... LOL
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10281966-92.html
169 • Preview of the ChromeOS? (by RollMeAway on 2009-07-08 18:01:20 GMT from United States)
http://webconverger.com/
This is a live CD (USBflash?) that boots directly, and only to a browser.
You cannot access any other app, even a terminal.
You cannot minimize the browser and see a desktop.
All browser.
While I found it useless, I know several of the younger generation that
would be at home with it.
170 • Chrome again (by Tom on 2009-07-08 18:01:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
Lol, is Cnet the bunch i had trouble posting on before because of pooor security? Sorry forest i gave up about when they said "if there is one problem that the Linux and open-source community has suffered repeatedly over the past two decades, it's been fragmentation." rofls
Ok, so Chrome has quite a few apps built in
http://www.elementmypc.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=58
so not as light as the rhetoric but able to function without being connected.
171 • No subject (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-08 18:31:36 GMT from United States)
@155:
First off, Crunchbang Linux is a LiveCD. I distinctly remember using it a few months ago as such. Perhaps you downloaded the Alternate CD? but then again, the distro would have asked you about partitioning (because it uses Ubuntu's installers).
Second, ChromeOS is not something that runs inside of Windows or another OS. It's a standalone OS that contains mostly the web browser. It's a lot like those Linux distros for internet kiosks we see on DW occasionally.
172 • ChromeOS (by Xtyn on 2009-07-08 19:26:43 GMT from Romania)
ChromeOS reminds me of xPUD. Seems to be the same idea.
In another way it reminds me of Moblin.
It's great that big companies like Intel and Google are getting involved in the development of Linux distributions.
173 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-08 21:57:17 GMT from Canada)
#154 • I find #! Crunchbang faster than "light" Xubuntu, way faster than Ubuntu.
New version just came out and it's awesome (yes, more awesome than Wolvix) :)
#155 • crunchbang & chrome
"Crunchbang doesn't do LiveCd it just installs straight wiping the drive!"
Not true. It comes on LiveCD and of course it lets you partition anyway you want.
174 • No subject (by forest on 2009-07-08 23:26:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have not as yet tried the latest Crunchbang but the previous issue was very spartan to look at...'til you tried the buttons and then you realised there was quite a lot to it after all.
That Element distro was a bit disappointing in that it promised a lot but there wasn't anything there to d/l. I think it was an E17 type desktop task bar doodad and certainly looked quite interesting, the media stuff anyway.
There was a copyright date of 2008 which does not bode well and the only forum entry AFAIK appeared to be the logo file.
Obviously I have to get a bit about ChromeOS in as well...so there it was on Sky News, (1900 UK time)...and we are all old hands at this ChromeOS guff by now...and the invited cyberspace hacks simply trundled out exactly what everyone here had said in their posts, so it's proof positive all their gen comes from reading DW forum...
175 • mono-love fest? (by D1Knight on 2009-07-09 02:41:47 GMT from United States)
For those that may still think mono (M$) is not lining up to hurt Linux. I am all for freedom of choice and the more the merrier of FOSS, but not legal pitfalls.
http://www.raiden.net/news/mono_developer_uses_f-word_to_abuse_rms/
I hope this helps to shine some light on the mono project.
176 • Opensuse # 3 Broken Fedora 11 # 2? (by JD on 2009-07-09 02:46:41 GMT from United States)
As you probably can tell opensuse is now number 3 on distrowatch rankings this is most likely because fedora recently released and opensuse only releases one a year. therefore it's amazing it's still up on high interest after all it's been around for awhile (december 08) but still better then broken fedora i think. so don't think it's going down in popularity or quality. this past release of fedora was a disappointment they broke yum by default! i'll wait for the next but always use opensuse , as for me i don't believe fedora deserves number 2 ! it's Broken! sorry fedora! :(
177 • No Mono! or you'll get Mono! (by CoolDude on 2009-07-09 02:56:07 GMT from United States)
I Don't hate Novell for there patent agreement they had to save there butts! from the notorious "i'll sue you for being competition!" Microsoft! Being the biggest linux company means Microsoft can and will want to pick on them. so don't hate them you don't have to love it, but there it is. When it comes to mono i fear Microsoft may screw users over for using it one day and i believe we should stay with other languages. anyone who wants to program in .NET i believe should reconsider there choice and question there very lax morals. Stay will good old C++ Python or something. don't give into the proprietary Microsoft-ness
178 • Yes! YES! #177 (by Amy on 2009-07-09 03:01:01 GMT from United States)
Yes CoolDude! i agree!
read the articles! even Microsoft employees themselves warn against and discourage it! It's a Trap! i'm gonna switch to songbird over Banshee !
179 • #177 (by OMan on 2009-07-09 03:10:21 GMT from United States)
"I Don't hate Novell for there patent agreement they had to save there butts!"
Not to nitpick but you appear to be a native English speaker. If not, just skip this next part:
Many people are so spooked by apostrophes that a word like “they’re” seems to them as if it might mean almost anything. In fact, it’s always a contraction of “they are.” If you’ve written “they’re,” ask yourself whether you can substitute “they are.” If not, you’ve made a mistake. “Their” is a possessive pronoun like “her” or “our” “They eat their hotdogs with sauerkraut.”
Everything else is “there.” “There goes the ball, out of the park! See it? Right there! There aren’t very many home runs like that.” “Thier” is a common misspelling, but you can avoid it by remembering that “they” and “their” begin with the same three letters. Another hint: “there” has “here” buried inside it to remind you it refers to place, while “their” has “heir” buried in it to remind you that it has to do with possession.
180 • mono again! (by RollMeAway on 2009-07-09 04:15:01 GMT from United States)
From all I have read, this sums it up:
1. There are fools
2. There are DAMN fools
3. Then there are mono developers
181 • re#180 mono tony (by hab on 2009-07-09 04:48:09 GMT from Canada)
umm......................................?
And the consumer?
What was it ol' P.T. Barnum said?
cheers
182 • Star-Trek Voyager (by Tom on 2009-07-09 04:56:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
183 • apols already for this (by Tom on 2009-07-09 06:57:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
184 • #183 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-09 10:39:54 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure how to stay on topic here because I don't know what the topic is but here's a random cliche: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." Anyhow, this is a version of Puppy that I might keep in my "toolbox", Browserpuppy:
http://www.puppylinux.org/downloads/puplets/browserpuppy
"Browserpuppy is a fast and small (66 Mb!) linux distribution based on Puppy Linux for surfing the web.
No Office, just browsing the web with:
* Web-browser (Firefox 3.5)
* Flash 10 (Fullscreen Youtube)
* JWM rounded corners
* PDF-reader
* Music Player (Alsaplayer)
* Asus Eee: wireless works on Eee PC"
185 • moving along with linux (by Mandy Morris on 2009-07-09 13:23:08 GMT from United States)
Hi. I see the discussion here is changing all the time and to interesting things I've never heard of (yet) like "mono."
I just popped in to tell about a few things I did find out and also to report that mint 6 updated is running fast and efficiently on my old computer here. The 512 mega bytes of RAM are enough for mint especially compared to vista which I destroyed when I installed mint. I wanted to time things in comparison but didn't think about that until after the install of linux so I just have to go by my experience.
Vista would boot from beginning to the start screen in about 90 seconds and mint does it in 42 seconds. Internet pages load on the screen about the same as vista unless I use the add block addon for firefox then pages load very fast. But add block disallows some videos on news sites so I turn it off most of the time.
Defragmenting is not necessary in most linux file systems to I don't have to bother with that because I'm using reiser instead of ext2.
One thing I noticed is that there were many services running in the background started on boot up that I could stop which made things much faster after I found out about them.
This computer now runs as good as it ever did back on windows 98 even better in some areas of operation and of course better in the sense of no crashes and blue screens of death. :)
Have a great day everybody and happy computing in linux.
186 • Mint 7 KDE CE version (by KevinC on 2009-07-09 15:12:54 GMT from United States)
I recently previewed the Live-CD version of Mint 7 KDE & later installed to hd. I was taken aback when I ran free -m...the Live-CD showed over 1 gig of memory being used, w/ no apps loaded!!! I thought to myself maybe the Live version is loading stuff into memory to speed things up a bit. But with the hd install it was the same...> 1 gig right after booting up & soon I had < 400 mb available (out of 4 gb...~3.3 gb available). This was w/ Firefox and Amarok running (and a terminal window of course). Mint 7, Gnome 64 bit uses much less memory (free -m shows about 400 mb at 1st boot). The system was on an AMD 64 dual core, 4 gb of ddr 2, a Nvidia 9800 gtx vid card, and 1 500 gb hd; 2 640 gb hds. On my main system I run 8 gb & a triple core AMD (love odd #s), but the KDE Mint could not use 8 gb, as it's 32 bit. I also found KDE 4.2.4 (Mint 7's version) to have several bugs. I copied ~10 gb of Amazon mp3 dl's from an NTFS partition; in about 1/2 of the folders the individual files did not copy..for no apparent reason. So then I copied each by hand (the only way I could get it to actually copy) & when I rescanned for media w/ Amarok my library only showed the new files I copied...and no matter what I did I couldn't get Amarok to re-add the previous mp3s. For me this flakiness was a showstopper, so it was back to the Gnome 64 bit variant.
187 • Mint 7 on laptop (by Sean on 2009-07-09 15:27:23 GMT from United States)
We tried Mint 7 also, but on an 18 month old Toshiba.
The live cd ran great so the hard drive install was positively anticipated. Alas, we too ran into probems, not the least of which as that it ran "clunky" or "mushy" or something.. just not snappy like Vectorlinux or even the Sabayon which is on it now (that surprised me.. but mainly because I'm not that knowledgable about the various distros.. just thought Sabayon would be slow).
There was no "show stopper" for me, just the bad feeling of booting up an os that was not as quick and slick as I want. Sabayon is filling the bill real nicely right now for this machine with 3 gb ram and a fairly good Intel graphics chip.
Vectorlinux remains our distro of choice on 5 of 7 of our PCs now, but no reason to dump Sabayon for it on this laptop as far as I can see right now.
188 • our Vectorlinux laptop (by Sean on 2009-07-09 15:41:51 GMT from United States)
I was just reminded by a co-worker that one of our "PCS" with Vector on it is in actuality a laptop with a dedicated non-wifi connection to our modem, so it sits there and behaves so much like a PC that we don't even think of it as a laptop computer.
189 • Don't get me wrong... (by KevinC on 2009-07-09 16:49:09 GMT from United States)
I'm not picking on Mint in particular....I've had nothing but positive experiences w/ the Gnome versions. Most of my gear is relatively high-powered and I have no issues w/ Jaunty or Mint, insofar as speed. Even the KDE was not what I would call slow...but I was getting into the pagefile pretty freakin' quick. And I do realize it's a "community edition" and a release candidate...and as far as looks it was quite pretty....but I'm willing to guess not even the much-maligned Vista uses resources to this extent, esp. on initial boot. I've played with Mandriva and OpenSUSE's KDE 4 iterations, but oddly never checked the memory usage...may have to dl some live cd versions to compare and contrast. Unfortunately I don't have a Vista box at this time to check what the dreaded MS OS uses memory wise...and I'm not gonna install it to check...;>) (Being a student I do have a Vista Business 4 cd set I dl'ed free of charge with and education key...also got Office 2007 corporate this way as well). Personally, tho I find the only app I really use w/ the office suites,,is Abiword...even have it on my dual-boot XP boxes..it's faster & lighter than Word and OO, Also, I don't really care much for Office 2007 and the new .docx file format.But that's typical MS philosophy...reinvent the wheel. Also, as an aside I have used KDE 3.5 extensively...as I used Mepis 8 for awhile as my main OS....and I liked KDE 3.5 a lot...just seems that the 4.x KDEs I've used are a step back, more bloated and not ready for prime time...this is IMHO, of course.
190 • Wrangled up some Vista figures.. (by KevinC on 2009-07-09 16:58:40 GMT from United States)
Forgot about an HP laptop I have that dual-boots Vista business and Jaunty....never log into Vista so I had forgotten it was there. ;>) Anyway, at initial boot Vista uses circa 800mb...and with Firefox 3.0x and Media Player 11 (playing an MP3) it shows about 880 mb. This is with virus scanner (BitDefender 08), the widgets thingy and pretty much all the other MS resident stuff in play. So, it seems to me that KDE 4.x uses more memory that Vista, esp. when you start using apps or at least the Mint incarnation thereof. Going to try to check this with some other flavors the next few days (when I'm off of work). One other noted...with the Mint install and my vanishing files during copy...I had chosen ext4 for both my root and home partitions...
191 • file systems (by Sean on 2009-07-09 17:05:39 GMT from United States)
Now I'm wondering about your file system choice.. we stay away from Reiser on company machiens not because it's not the best but because of a vote in our company having to do with the inventer of that file system.. touchy subject I realise, but that was the vote.
Anyway, we always go with ext3 and have been happy with it no matter the distro that offers it.
I'd be interested to know if it's a ext4 but that you're talking about.
192 • sorry, last double post (by Sean on 2009-07-09 17:06:37 GMT from United States)
"but" = "bug" in typo-land. :o)
193 • OT: #191 rake a pee :-) (by DG on 2009-06-19 09:47:10 GMT from Netherlands)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
194 • re#193 Linux, where are you? (by hab on 2009-07-09 19:37:13 GMT from Canada)
Your short litany of horrors leads me to believe that you are probably staring at some (obscure?) sort of hardware problem.
One thing i have noticed lately is that i am experiencing failure to installs, or even boot a linux cd and i resolve the problem by swapping in a known good cd/dvd drive and repeating the attempt with success. I have upgraded many firmwares in optical drives to alleviate this kind of problem.
If you now have a running linux system you can of course install a virtualization environment and test away to your hearts content never having to burn an iso to a disc.
And it will give you a heads up as to what works and what doesn't.
cheers
195 • @ 193 Sierra Bravo (by Tom on 2009-07-09 19:40:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Heck, that does sound like a really frustrating pain. I would have suggested Ubuntu right from the start but i'd also have suggested Mandriva, openSUSE and Fedora as 'well worth trying too'.
Pentium 4 with 2Gb ram really doesn't qualify as old, not round here anyway. P2's are 'quite' old. I guess it could qualify on the grounds that its 'pre quad core dual layer' (or whatever *shrugs*) lol, but that kinda stuff is really top-end anyway
I find it amazing that you'd buy so many, especially when the first few distros flagged up problems but sometimes we all get sucked into that kind of thing. I would have a mind to try returning them and ask for money back but i guess they didn't cost much? Hmm, i'm not sure about this. Good luck anyway!
Regards from
Tom :)
196 • @193 (by david on 2009-07-09 19:44:23 GMT from United States)
Wow!!! That is quite a disappointing journey. And to think you paid for many of them. Mepis is a great distro and has decent support out of the box.
197 • @193 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-09 20:48:24 GMT from United States)
Sounds like a hardware issue. I've run into too many broken CD/DVD drives in my time, and I know one when I see one. CD's that are properly burned or pressed professionally fail to install for no reason.
It's probably doesn't help that you tested some pretty old operating systems, or some of them one might even call "shovelware." But persistance, eh? You found MEPIDS to work, so good for you!
@190: Vista's memory figures are rather hard to calculate. It grows and shrinks based on your machine (though the "shrinking" is what Windows 7 claims to improve upon), much like Linux in the past decade. It caches memory and moves things around behind the scenes.
In short, memory usage is an utterly pointless statistic.
198 • Thanks #177! (by CoolDude on 2009-07-09 21:00:19 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the great spelling lesson on "their ,there ,they're!" haha!
i was sadly in a hurry so that should explain my bad use of English.
hopefully ! Great DW weekly!
199 • @post 193 by SB (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-09 21:24:31 GMT from United States)
That all looks a lot like my first journey into linux. It really does.
Two things: 1. hardware (is there an echo in here?), 2. integrity of downloads (md5 checksum, hash, etc).
Once I got those ironed out (1. purchased new laptop, 2. stopped using rw and went strictly with r CDs and DVDs).
200 • finish post (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-09 21:26:12 GMT from United States)
"Once I got those ironed out (1. purchased new laptop, 2. stopped using rw and went strictly with r CDs and DVDs).."
..things began to run more smoothly.
Vector was my first successful install, btw.
201 • #193 (by Elder Vintner on 2009-07-09 21:34:54 GMT from United States)
Too bad you didn't come here first. I would have said to go with Ubuntu. I should also say that Mepis 8 and it's offspring AntiX 8 - Intifada, are also wonderful choices. It goes without saying that you really should have tried........................
WOLVIX!
Here is an interesting review from Susan Linton:
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6747/1/
202 • linux trials and tribulations (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-09 22:41:22 GMT from United States)
Now my memory has been piqued. I recall my keyboard on my IBM computer not working on any Red Hat or Mandrake, but was fine on Yoper. I still do not know why.
Then one day I decided to try SuSE. I quickly became a SuSE groupie, following their every move.
Then it broke at 9.3.
A tide of other distros rolled in.
203 • @177/198 (by Eyes-Only on 2009-07-09 23:22:58 GMT from United States)
I whole-heartedly agree with poster #198! - #177? You did an utterly fabulous job explaining some very difficult points of English grammar with great aplomb, in a very logically, calm, gentlemanly - and I must confess! - totally absorbing manner! I not only thank you, Kind Sir, but I also applaud you for your efforts well-done!
When I first saw your post #177 my very first thought was, "Oh no! Here we go! The Grammar Police!" yet for once it was refreshing to be proven totally wrong.
You brought up some excellent points, one this person was never shown before, but then again English is my second language despite having been born and raised in the USA. ( My Mother Tongue is Akadien actually. )
@Mandy: Thank you for returning to give us another update on how you're coming along with your "Discovery of Linux Mint". You seem to be making the adjustment in excellent fashion - and believe me when I say that many in here ( myself included! ) are very proud of just how fast you are progressing! Keep up the great work!
This truly has been an excellent, learning week here this week! :)
Amicalement!/Cheers!
Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
204 • @ 189, 190 (by Rivet on 2009-07-10 05:41:24 GMT from India)
One area where the open source Desktop Environment Community seriously needs to improve is to reduce the memory consumptions of the most used Desktop Environments in Linux Distributions.
The Recommended memory requirement of Windows XP, which has 61.54% market share as of the end of May 2009 in the world, is "only" 128 mb RAM or higher.
When I use Live cds of Major Distributions listed in DistroWatch and check their memory, the Live cds always show that they are consuming at an average of more than 700 mb RAM.
Consuming that much amount of RAM, how do you expect the 61.54% market share to try Live cds of Linux Distributions when they know that their systems dont have that much memory? Forget about trying Live cds, would they even download the Live cds of Linux Distributions in first place?
We have light weight Windows Managers, but are they as used in Linux Distributions as most used Desktop Environments? The most used Desktop Environments are the first things which users come across when trying out Linux Distributions.
I hope the open source Desktop Environment Community are listening because along with closed drivers, the high memory consumptions of most used Desktop Enviroments are holding back the use of Linux Distributions.
The problem of closed drivers would arrive only after users download Linux Distributions in first place.
205 • No subject (by Tom on 2009-07-10 07:52:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
I like that trick of knowing when to use "there", it works with "where" too ;) Typos are unavoidable especially when rushing along in an excited state ;) Sepling mistooks can be a good sign :)
I agree about Mandy, KevinC & Sean giving us some good posts there. Sorry Sierra, that's too familiar and too painful but i'm glad you're through. I found really cheap "write once" cds better than more expensive kinds for this hunting and nowadays buy them in packs of 10 from the grocery store because i get a handy spindle that can hold about 12 cds included ;)
@ 204 Rivet
I have used Xp on a machine with 256Mb of ram but it was so desperately slow that i really couldn't stand it. 512Mb was bad but 256Mb was impossible. I think it's better to be realistic and to state "min.specs" as something which allows one to also open and use typical applications, such as Office & the web-browser & no i didn't even bother trying to open either of those on 256Mb with Xp. I am shocked by the 700Mb of used ram tho, that really doesn't match my experience so it sounds like something is going wrong there. It's odd that 700Mb is cd sized but many of the small distros we usually go on about are much much smaller than that. I typically find that with Xp i really need well over 2Gb before i feel i can just get on with stuff rather than worrying or experiencing slowdowns. 2Gb is fantastically roomy in linux. Sorry, no real answers there, just my own wonderings on my own experiences.
If you don't like heavy De's then use lighter ones *shrugs*, ok i know that's not always easy for a noob to really understand as Window don't offer the option but we do and we need to get out there and help people try these things :)
Good luck and regards to all rom
Tom :)
206 • reiserfs (by Tom on 2009-07-10 08:45:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Blimey! Interesting reading about that on Wikipedia!
I've got someone trying to add in a grub stanza for an old openSUSE partition that's on 2 reiserfs partitions (a separate /home) but we're having difficulty getting anything other than GPartEd seeing them. We've got "reiserfsprogs" but is there anything else we're likely to need? Links to documentation would be ideal, thanks ;) lol
cheeky regards from
Tom :)
207 • Re: @193 Failed tryout of Linux-distros (by Jan on 2009-07-10 10:24:17 GMT from Netherlands)
I experienced that with (trying) Linux, you can better check your BIOS-settings first.
A conservative/save setting sometimes helps (for instance getting a printer to work).
Jan
208 • @206 (by Jerry B. on 2009-07-10 12:07:51 GMT from United States)
Hans Reiser is a convicted murderer.
"Interesting reading.." ??
Ok.
209 • re#208 (by hab on 2009-07-10 12:19:51 GMT from Canada)
Not only convicted, Reiser confessed.
h
210 • @194 Linux Distros (by Sierra Bravo on 2009-07-10 12:23:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Having read yours and other contributions I decided to replace the CD/DVD drive in the laptop with a new one and guess what? Go on guess....... You guessed it! That didn't work either!
Another waste! Still, I was interested in your comments on virtualisation environment. What is it?, how does it work? and how do I do it? (remember I know nothing!)
Thanks to all the contributors. I'll keep trying!
211 • No subject (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-10 12:32:44 GMT from United States)
@204: Live CD's "always" report 700 MB used?
Most Ubuntu LiveCD's tell me about 180 MB used RAM after startup. OpenSUSE was about 220 MB. I think the most I've ever seen was Sabayon with around 250 MB. This is on a few different machines.
To compare, Windows XP is usually around 120 MB out of the box (no drivers or programs) but can be pushed to 100 MB with some major sacrifices. The average Windows XP box usually uses about 200 MB, but without administering and keeping an eye on things that can grow to nearly double or triple that.
But as I've said above, Linux dynamically caches memory (much like Windows Vista or 7) to make that statistic completely pointless. LiveCD technology is crazily complicated, making it even less relevant.
What matters much more is how responsive the system is.
212 • the hardware (by Mandy Morris on 2009-07-10 12:34:10 GMT from United States)
Hello Sierra Bravo. I want to offer that once I came to terms with *all* of the hardware on my computer I was able to make things work better (some did not work at all on two other linux distributions I tried). Not just the CD drive.
About the file system "reiser." OMG I did not know it was named after a man who strangled his wife to death! And he developed the system so now I have to learn how to change to one of the other ones (a "journaling" one that needs no defragmenting I hope). I will have to read about that (lots of reading to do about linux!).
213 • @210 (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-10 12:35:02 GMT from United States)
Are you sure the discs are good?
Do you have any exotic hardware in the laptop?
Virtualization is pretty neat. I suggest looking into VirtualBox and reading the manual while you're setting it up. Unless you need some special features, the process is pretty painless. Just install, load an ISO in the "CD Drive," and run the fake computer.
214 • re#210 (by hab on 2009-07-10 12:43:51 GMT from Canada)
@Sierra Bravo
Computers can run software that allows you to run another os inside the host. In the case of linux, virtual box software gives you this ability. It can run other oses like another instance of linux or bsd or win.
Quite handy really.
h
215 • ReiserFS (by corneliu on 2009-07-10 12:49:12 GMT from Canada)
What's wrong with you people? Not using ReiserFS because the guy killed his wife is silly. Were your files murdered by ReiserFS? No? That's the only thing that matters. Cut the bull droppings and get a life!
Cheers.
Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of ext4
216 • @213 (by Sierra Bravo on 2009-07-10 13:02:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
One of the reasons I purchased (or had given as gifts) the professionally produced discs is that I originally downloaded distros and burnt them using "Disk Utility" in MAC OS X. and although they verified ok I had my doubts because they would either partly install or not install at all. I thought that I would get over the doubts about downloaded distros by buying professionally engineered ones. It's hard to believe that discs from several suppliers could all be faulty!
The laptop is branded "ACi" which i believe has Dell internals. There is no exotic hardware that I am aware of. Just a standard Pentium 4 processor, 2Gb RAM, 80Gb HDD and now a new CD/DVD drive.
What puzzles me is that 3 distros (Ubuntu, Mepsis and Mint) have all installed with little or no problem.
217 • re#216 (by hab on 2009-07-10 13:11:31 GMT from Canada)
Laptops can be a total PITA. I doubt that you would have had the problems you state with a desktop box.
Desktop hardware is VERY generic. Laptops, not nearly so much!
Try on a desktop perhaps, and compare it to your laptop experience.
h
218 • @190 (by KevinC on 2009-07-10 13:42:03 GMT from United States)
As I reported, I did the install to the hard drive and still (to my surprise) returned results of ~1 gb used at initial boot. Now I don't deny it could be some kind of bizarre memory leak and not typical...I may test Mint 7 KDE on another computer this weekend to see & I would like, time allowing, to test some of the other KDE 4 distros to see of they have similar memory usage. I have never used Kubuntu,so I cannot comment on it. Mostly my KDE experience has been w/ Mepis, Fedora, Arch, PCLinux and others I'm sure I've forgotten. I've tested Live-CDs of Mint KDE from time to time and at 1st I was unable to boot...then later simply returned to Gnome. I have always been more at ease with Gnome, b/c my 1st experiences were with Gnome, IIRC with Fedora Core 2. In the not so recent past I used Mepis as my main distro and was highly impressed with KDE 3.5. I believe both DEs have their strengths and weaknesses...so, in fine, I am not anti-KDE. And I bring up Vista only for a passing comparison....I am not a Vista fan by any means and never, by choice, boot into that OS. It's slow and sluggish, etc, etc. Tho, it can be improved somewhat with Black Viper's guide (i.e, killing un-needed services) and various other tweaks. And I should add that Mint 7 KDE seemed responsive enough but I never got into it thrashing with the pagefile....my file copying errors precluded that and I simply returned to the 64 bit Gnome version which works with no issue whatsoever. On admittedly fairly limited experience with KDE 4.x tho, IMHO it is not yet fully cooked. To me the KDE 3;5->4.x transition is somewhat analogous to XP->Vista. I.e., XP seemed to be about as good as it gets for MS and then Vista was a fairly significant regression to style over substance and functionality. Regardless of your feelings about MS I would guess most would agree XP is > Vista.
219 • reiserfs (by Sean on 2009-07-10 13:43:50 GMT from United States)
Mentioned before in here was our vote to not include that file system in our linux set ups at our facility. It is not because there is something "wrong" with "you people," it's to do with people's feelings about not wanting to honor a murderer's work.
It was an interesting discussion prior to the actual voice vote. Hitler and the Volkswagen was brought up.. Adolph Hitler met with Ferdinand Porche and gave him some requirements for a "people's car," volkswagen, which Porche had to design a car around. Therefor should those of us aghast at utilising reiserfs also be unwilling to own or drive or even be in a Volkswagen?
Well, the car was not invented by or designed by History's Worst Criminal, but the reiser file system was invented and developed by a convicted murderer.
The vote was 73 - 0 against using reiser and I respect that a lot more than I respect somebody taking the stance that there is "something wrong with you people."
To each her or his own.
220 • Crux Linux (by david on 2009-07-10 13:49:53 GMT from United States)
Does anyone have any experience installing Crux Linux? And if so, are you willing to share?
221 • re#219 (by hab on 2009-07-10 13:50:40 GMT from Canada)
Exactly!
Whatever position is taken, do so from knowledge and understanding. Not from ignorance (def. not knowing, naive).
h
222 • Fragging (by Tom on 2009-07-10 13:53:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Here from ubuntu help files (again, sorry)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemsExplained#Fragmentation
just scroll further up the page for quick help about filesystems. Basically it seesm that as long as you avoid ntfs & fat (ie avoid Windows ones) then you don't need to defrag *shrugs*
I would probably avoid reiserfs because it was mainly handled by 1 person who now isn't able to lead his team. Maybe in about 8 years, if he lives that long in prison (he's already been badly beaten at least once by fellow inmates, so badly that they had to move him). After taking time out of the school system he finished Uni about the age that most people start it, we're clearly not talking about a normally socialised person. Question is will i want my data on a system who "is a nice friendly guy" or by someone who is a genius? Not an easy question but for now it seems unsupported so the answer is easy - unfortunately i have someone with an Ubuntu system that isn't working too well and can't boot into the openSUSE that was fine but on a reiserfs which i now can't access lol
Hardware, hmm so if it isn't the discs and it isn't the cd/dvd-drive then hopefully it's something like either the firmware or the lead connecting it to the mbord. Do laptops have a mbord or is it a different concept? Can a drives data-cable be replaced in a laptop? Is there some sort of conflict between something and whichever cd/dvd-drive is plugged in? Is anything plugged in to usb ports or other places that you can unplug and try? That fact of Ubuntu working should give us a clue how to make the others work *scratches head* i'm no good at this but there my tuppence worth
Good luck and regards to all from
Tom :)
223 • #222 laptop crap (by hab on 2009-07-10 14:07:46 GMT from Canada)
Tom
They actually have mobos and in form somewhat follow their desktop kin. The peripherals, drives etc. are all pretty standard and generic, the problems are with the bios and whats behind them. Consider that the bios is what? ...like the last layer of Spackle that you smooth over a hole. It provides a standard set of 'hooks' for the os.
On desktop boxen what is behind the bios is pretty standardized. On lappies what is behind the bios can be a real snake pit. Not necessarily generic at all. Fun stuff (rolls eyes).
Hope this helps a smidge.
cheers
224 • @ 205, 211 (by Rivet on 2009-07-10 15:11:33 GMT from India)
205 - " that really doesn't match my experience so it sounds like something is going wrong there."
May I know your experience please?
211 - "Most Ubuntu LiveCD's tell me about 180 MB used RAM after startup. OpenSUSE was about 220 MB. I think the most I've ever seen was Sabayon with around 250 MB."
So, finally those Linux Distributions still dont "match" 128 mb RAM or higher. They start at about 180 mb RAM or higher right.
There is always room for "improvement" for most used Desktop Environments to match or better the competition that is Windows XP.
225 • re: 224, "-XP with only 128MB ???" (by Caraibes on 2009-07-10 15:44:40 GMT from Dominican Republic)
@Rivet, I challenge you to run Windows XP sp3, with Office, an antivirus, and all updates to this day all that with only 128 megs of ram !
It is simply a disaster ! Way too slow to be usable...
XP sp3 with Office & antivirus is already unbearably slow with 256 megs... That would be the complete minimum, but if you need to get some work done, I would say XP needs a minimum of 512...
Don't believe what the XP release announcement said back in 2001... Today it needs 512...
If you have only 128 megs of ram, why don't you perform a text install of your fav' distro and then add Fluxbox, PCmanFM, XMMS and Opera ?
226 • #224 (by Uncle Monkey on 2009-07-10 16:35:18 GMT from United States)
I am running Linux Puppy on a computer with a 75 - 100mhz Pentium processor and 128 megs of RAM. It is a bit slow opening applications but once they are open it runs fine. I surf the net and read my email with it. However, it is just too old to be able to handle any kind of Flash videos. The only other distros that would run on this machine are:
Slax - too slow
Wolvix - too slow
DSL - ok, but Firefox was just to much
Tiny Core - kept crashing
I do have XP installed on another machine that came with 256 megs of RAM and it was intolerably slow. I added more RAM, something over 300 but less than 400. It runs but my son won't use it because it's so slow. He likes the machine with Ubuntu on it as do the rest of us.
227 • @#204, Re: Linux in 128MB of RAM (by Pearson on 2009-07-10 17:00:32 GMT from United States)
Others can correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone *will* if I am), but I believe that a LiveCD typically consumes more RAM than booting from a HD. I know that it is almost always much slower (unless you load to RAM, which of course will consume more RAM).
There *are* usable Linux distros on a 12MB computer, even with a desktop. Look at some of the "light" versions - Vector, Puppy, etc. (what was the one Caitlyn Martin reviewed a few weeks ago - a small distro running Gnome?).
And I will add to those who say that XP is very uncomfortably usable (meaning *e x t r e m e l y s l o w") with 256MB of RAM. I've not run it with only 128MB, but I can imagine that it would take several minutes to open a 10 page document in Word and would be thrashing the hard drive using virtual memory. Microsoft has (had?) a reputation for listing the requirements lower than what most would consider useful.
228 • @224 (by Joe on 2009-07-10 17:52:18 GMT from United States)
Have you tried Slitaz? I have it running on a Pentium 233MMX with 320MB of RAM. With the exception of Firefox (you'll want to replace it with a lean browser of your choice), apps ran well. I've read specs on the web that suggest it will run in 128MB of RAM.
229 • ime (by Tom on 2009-07-10 17:58:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Caraibes, UncleMonkey & Pearson thanks for that :) I agree about Xp. It is an excellent OS and i would consider it just about ready to be released.
Rivets you caught me out - on that list i've only tried Mandriva, Ubuntu and AntiX (which is a tiny Mepis). I had trouble only with openSUSE (everytime) but that was probably the dvd-drive being intermittent.
UM a 75MHz 128Mb ram is quite extreme, i would definitely think of this one as 'old'. The list seemed about what i would have tried, maybe antiX & sliTaz as well
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=links#floppy
Of the ones that you did try but were a bit slow, particularly Dsl, did you find the lightest versions, replace the DE with something lighter, swap Firefox for BonEcho/SeaMonkey/Dillo & try installing "gnash" &/or "swfplayer" for flash? Given that Dsl was best on that machine i would really go for tweaking that and visit their forums for help. Wolvix, Vector, sliTaz and antiX were almost bound to be too heavy but worth a quick go i guess. Yes, installing to hard-drive is likely to give much better performance especially considering that many of those distros load themselves into ram when run as a LiveCd. I would try the same list again on the 256Mb Xp machine but install as dual/multi-boots until you find one that just about gives what yu're looking for :) Happy hunting :)
Regards from
Tom :)
230 • agree with 217 (by joey on 2009-07-10 18:07:32 GMT from United States)
when i tried my first linux distro it was pclos 2007 on a laptop, a vaio, and the screen never went past scrolling the kernel stuff, then just froze while i naively waited.
the same pclos disc tried on my gateway pc went fine. it is anecdotal i know, but i do think the notebook hardware is wiggy compared to average pc and linux is obviously getting better, but it has to do with drivers in my opinion.
knowing about xorg.conf helps but some portable computers are not supported well.
231 • re#230 driverless (by hab on 2009-07-10 18:27:24 GMT from Canada)
Yeah, it's kinda difficult to do drivers when the 'api' is closed. Sucks big time.
One of the reasons i tend to avoid closed source software and closed hardware, which lappies are for the most part.
If you want to run linux on a lappie and problems rear their ugly head maybe go here: http://www.linux-laptop.net/, a good resource for any would be linux laptop junkie.
cheers
232 • Slitaz - Review nomination (by RollMeAway on 2009-07-10 19:56:27 GMT from United States)
I second the vote for Slitaz on old (actually new as well!) computers.
I managed to install it on an old Fujitsu 270dx laptop with a 200 Mhz pentium,
96 MB ram and no CD drive. Wifi worked first tryl.
I had to remove firefox and installed midori for the web browser.It has a nice package manager cli and gui. There is even an option to install without
dependency checking, so slackware users will feel at home.
I would like to see a professional review of this distro.
It seems to be similar to tiny-core but enough applications added to be functional.
Over 1500 pkgs available and it grows each time I check.
See supported hardware:
http://www.slitaz.org/en/doc/releases/2.0/relnotes.en.html
233 • fud? (by Tom on 2009-07-10 20:07:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm not sure what Fud stands for but is this an example of some?
http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf
I'm looking for the story about why the "$100 laptop for every child" scheme failed if anyone has that easily to hand please email me
Wow, it's been a fun day again, thanks all :)
Regards from Tom :)
234 • @233 (by Joe on 2009-07-10 20:26:18 GMT from United States)
The paper claims that Microsoft is trying to instill fear, uncertainty, and doubt, in the minds of potential Linux users. Interesting. You know I had windows in my house, with a different view out each window long before Microsoft came along.
235 • re#234,233 (by hab on 2009-07-10 20:37:46 GMT from Canada)
More reasons to avoid them,......................................like the plague!
How many more straws will it take to break the camels back, so to speak, for many, many more computer users.
Is there a strain of masochism at play here?
h
236 • My 2 cents (by Joe on 2009-07-10 20:58:29 GMT from United States)
- I think we'll see Microsoft's real intentions if their traditional streams of revenue begin to dry up.
- I think that big companies tend to overwhelm small competitors and stifle creativity and innovation using lawsuits, price manipulation, and media campaigns that cast a cloud over their competition.
-- A friend of mine opened a small business that a large company (with their own legal staff) saw as competition. They began to file lawsuits against my friend's small company. He almost folded, not because the big company's lawsuits had any merit, but because he almost got to the point where he couldn't afford the legal fees to defend himself.
- I hate to see it when smaller companies are gobbled up and their products pulled from the market shelves. I have no doubt that we would have even more choices today if many of these products had remained available to consumers and been allowed to develop. By stifling competition, the big companies leave us with fewer choices and oft times lower quality products.
237 • @233 fud? (by RollMeAway on 2009-07-10 21:15:13 GMT from United States)
If ONLY we could get the mono developers to read that !
MS Promise, indeed !
238 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-07-10 22:56:12 GMT from United States)
@224
Erm, no.
As others have pointed out, your comparison is off by a few points.
1) There are smaller Linux distros. AntiX uses about 80 MB on boot, as I recall. Debian (using Gnome, mind you) was around that ballpark. Damn Small Linux used about 20 MB.
2) You didn't read the rest of my post, obviously. Reading comprehension on your part will make our lives easier.
Recall that I said: not only do LiveCD's use more memory (because instead of storing configuration and files on the hard drive, they're stored in RAM), but Linux uses RAM to make things faster, artificially inflating the used RAM stat. Therefore, and I'll yell it again,
USED MEMORY IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS STATISTIC when comparing Operating Systems. ESPECIALLY modern ones, with cached memory. OS' can grow or shrink based on the size and power of the computer.
3) Windows XP, out of the box, is a blank slate. It has no virus protection, no Wi-Fi or networking, no filesystem utilities, nothing. As you install programs, Windows XP will use more memory. There are ways to slow this, but it is largely impossible.
4) I neglected to mention that Windows XP using 120 MB out of the box is an old statistic. That was around Service Pack 1 (back when I bothered to use it - I use Vista and Windows 7 now). Service Pack 2 and 3 upped that number to around 150 MB, which is what Ubuntu uses (once installed). Running Windows XP on any thing less than 256 MB RAM is virtually impossible.
239 • Oops! (by Nobody Important on 2009-07-10 22:58:41 GMT from United States)
Last post was mine.
While I have the soapbox for a minute, I have to say that while I liked Crunchbang Linux, I'm not a huge fan of Openbox. I can't quite understand why. (Also, the fonts were too tiny by default.)
Second, I have been able to try Ubuntu One briefly. No issues so far with the service. I wish it supported more than just Ubuntu, but what do you expect?
240 • @176 OpenSUSE #3 Fedora #2 (by FedoraJoe on 2009-07-13 04:11:53 GMT from United States)
Fedora is at #2 only for the time being. Don't worry Fedora does not care whether it is at #1, #2 #100. They care to get the latest developments of software, and take a look at the kernel, they are behind the times. For the first time I see in a while, OpenSUSE is ahead of Fedora in this case.
Also since you seem to run OpenSUSE and you say it should be better, I wonder why they only run 1 kernel by default. While I say I like OpenSUSE as well as Fedora, I wonder why they only run 1 kernel, while on Fedora you can keep as many kernels as you want by changing installonlylimit=? in yum.conf.
Thanks and don't worry about ratings. They are just that RATINGS.
241 • Mint 7 KDE redux (by KevinC on 2009-07-13 07:29:02 GMT from United States)
Wanted to update that I reinstalled Mint 7 KDE rc1, this time with ext3 instead of ext4 and now it's running n.p. Still has kind of a heavy footprint, but even with free -m showing I only have 80 mb left it's not swapping to disc (and I loaded a ton of apps). Maybe it's simply caching memory to speed things up as hab stated (hey, if I there's 4 gb there, guess it's good that it's being used). The copy from NTFS worked without a hitch and I had less issues. So in the end IDK if it's an ext4 problem or perhaps just a borked install...my md5 sum was good and I did the "Check media" thingy and it showed no errors... Anyway, to be fair to KDE Mint I thought I should post this. Also, installed Kubuntu 64 bit to my personal box (8 gb ram) and it seems rather spartan compared to Mint KDE (almost like a base install). Gonna play w/ KDE 4 for a bit, just to, at least, become familiar with it. It does seem less buggy than my past short dances with it. I cannot say if it's going to be my cup of tea yet, but I can say it runs reasonably fast on dual core+/ 4 gb+ systems. Another complaint I've seen is ppl. writing it off as a "Vista clone." I don't see this at all....KDE 4 not only runs faster than Vista (in my experience), but pretty much blows it away in terms of eye candy...and the desktop experience is nothing like Vista, from my POV.
242 • Kubuntu vs Mint (by Tom on 2009-07-13 07:41:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Interesting to hear, thanks Kevin :) That is pretty much what i would have thought, Mint being heavier and flashier than Kubuntu. Kde seemed pretty awesome when i used it but suffered from 2 major blockers for me. 1) it's blue, 2) my machine couldn't quite handle it smoothly although this machine has grown quite a bit since then.
It still seems to me that 32bit versions of *buntu are better, even on 64bit machines, than 64bit versions, i only have 2Gb ram. Kevin, worth trying the 32bit version to compare?
243 • @242 (by KevinC on 2009-07-13 10:55:20 GMT from United States)
I would probably go w/ Kubuntu vs. Mint...Mint is a lot flashier but heavier, but it's worth a go, if it doesn't work you've only wasted a little time. BTW, you have no choice w/ 32 bit vs. 64 bit as far as Mint goes, it only comes in a 32 bit flavor (as all the community editions have in the past, IIRC). Of course there's always OpenSUSE, Fedora, Mandriva, etc....who all have KDE 4.x versions...I even believe there's a remix of Mepis 8 w/ KDE 4. So if you are not an _buntu fan... Personally, I don't understand the hate for the various 'buntus...to me their contribution is brining Linux to a larger audience...and that can only be a good thing (the alternative being everyone running MS systems...). At one time (a long time ago)...I did the Arch install and, if memory serves, even did a Gentoo install. I have vague memories of KDE taking ages to compile...;>) Now I usually work at least 50-60 hrs. a week so my hobbyist inclinations have to be put in check somewhat. This is why I appreciate the dead-easy installs of the the 'buntus and Mint. I also have installs of Wolvix Beta 2 and Vector 6 in VBox and I like both of those distros. I've been watching some of the Dell Optiplex 280's on EBay (per a post by forrest) and so far have been outbid...but I would like to put together a machine just to test various distros on...or that's my goal. The economy being what it is tho, I don't just blow my $'s as I did in the past...i.e, try to look for bargains/ best deal. On one final note, over the past yr. or so I have had very little problems w/ the 64 bit versions of various distros (since the 64 bit Java and Flash have emerged). The only real issue I had, as of late, was trying to get the Amazon Mp3 Dl'er to work on 64 bit Mint. Getlibs would report "no match," for the 32 bit libraries required. Works fine in Jaunty tho (Ubuntu and Kubuntu 64 bit). Amazon Mp3 is a must for me as I purchase most of my mp3s there now and they're all DRM free.
244 • Wolvix and Ubuntu (& Mint) (by Tom on 2009-07-13 12:45:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Oh and kongoni, err and a few others. Oh drat it, this is getting daft. I was trying to say that "all distros seem to be blue" lol.
I think that we kinda have a duty to get to know about installing and fixing minor problems in *buntu, especially if we are going to slate-it. It is a great one for helping people move to linux (via a dual-boot preferably) whatever else we think about it. Personally i like it anyway *shrugs*, especially the brown coloured one ;)
It is ages since i last tried a 64bit version, the 64bit java beta (or released fully yet?) & flash (& various upgrades to my main machine) would make a huge difference but it still seems that 64bit versions don't give me anything useful that i don't already get from 32bit versions. I've even heard some people argue that it can theoretically use more ram because some of those 64bit writes might be half empty. Lol, not sure if that's daft or not :) Wine is still only 32 bit although i don't use Wine so that's another non-issue. I would guess that 64bit applications don't work in 32bit OS's (such as that Amazon Mp3 dl) but there also seems to be some trouble about running 32bit applications in 64bit OS which really does surprise me - if it's really true and not just people making things up to sound knowledgeable ;)
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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