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1 • Great to see Debian's support of kFreeBSD! (by latte on 2009-04-06 08:17:08 GMT from New Zealand)
Really good to see Debian supporting kFreeBSD! As a user of both Linux and FreeBSD, I'll be keen to see how this goes. Well done to Debian for doing this!
2 • No subject (by Alberto on 2009-04-06 08:52:17 GMT from Spain)
Parted Magic is awesome, very usefull distro.
Keep up the good work Ladislav & Team
3 • smxi (by Wolf on 2009-04-06 08:58:21 GMT from Germany)
Really good to see that smxi receives the Mars donation. Congrats to h2!
Greez w.
4 • GNOME 3.0 and Chakra (by Celettu on 2009-04-06 08:58:45 GMT from Luxembourg)
Nice to see that GNOME too feels the need to innovate, even if it's in their own cautious way. I'm anticipating the reaction of "the community" with a sense of amusement, I must say.
Chakra is a great distrolet, and I feel rather proud to have contributed to it (in a very very small way, I did some translations). I didn't expect it to show up on Distrowatch this early since it's still alpha, but from what I heard it's already working well.
5 • Omnia XP (by Kurt_Aust on 2009-04-06 08:59:43 GMT from Australia)
I for one cannot approve of this distribution, it's one thing to have a very similar look and feel in order to make the transition easier, but IMHO pinching the artwork is going too far.
6 • smxi donation (by miks on 2009-04-06 09:01:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
Glad to see smxi getting a well deserved donation, and a bit of publicity. A really worthwhile project and a big help to both the experienced and the not so experienced.
7 • smxi (by Marcos on 2009-04-06 09:15:53 GMT from Germany)
I also think that choosing smxi for the donation has been a superb idea.
8 • KABOOM! (by arno911 on 2009-04-06 09:40:23 GMT from Germany)
KDE4 is in Debians unstable.
have fun ;)
9 • No subject (by sertse on 2009-04-06 09:48:37 GMT from Australia)
+1 comments about smxi, great project, especially the tools to easily install nivdia drivers, which has been a hassle in Debian.
Also, smxi has been invaluable for running a sid based system,
10 • PartEd Magic (by Tom on 2009-04-06 09:49:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Wow, looks excellent! Tiny distro with some useful features!
Thanks for another good read Chris :)
11 • OmniaXP (by AbacusMonkey on 2009-04-06 10:14:37 GMT from Australia)
OmniaXP just looks awful. In what way is making linux look that much like windows xp a good idea?
12 • Parted Magic (by Benny on 2009-04-06 10:24:20 GMT from Poland)
It's definitely one of the best rescue always-in-the-pocket distro: very fast in booting, easy to use especially for noobies, with excellent slack's modules installation by "copying to modules folder" way.
Only thing I wish is to enable to switch sound on for average user - it is distro's policy to stay away of sound apparently but IMHO it wouldn't hurt to leave such door open if anybody wish
13 • smxi (by Notorik on 2009-04-06 11:06:10 GMT from United States)
Nice choice on smxi. I have never heard of it but I have recently had a very nice experience installing and using Mepis 8.0 on a laptop. Thanks to all the people who write these scripts and make our distros work like they do. The DistroWatch contribution is kind of like the People's Choice Awards, it is a really nice little pat on the back for some of the under appreciated people who put so much work into helping the Linux world. Congrats and kudos to all of you people who do this kind of thing. Nice job, keep up the good work.
14 • smxi (by CurtisK on 2009-04-06 12:00:40 GMT from Denmark)
Nice to see smxi get this month donation h2 is really doing a great job whit the smxi sgfxi svmi rbxi and inxi scripts .
Best reagards
CurtisK
15 • Omnia XP Violates Copyright (by em4r1z on 2009-04-06 12:01:34 GMT from Argentina)
Omnia XP shouldn't be added to DistroWatch's list because its infringes the copyright of Microsoft's artwork. Its availability equals that of a pirated application or film.
16 • OmniaXP (by Somnalist on 2009-04-06 12:24:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
em4r1z is wrong. Omnia should be released by a penniless student working from a tiny bankrupt offshore island dependent on charity for survival. As everyone knows the Law only works for the super-rich and the destitute. Anyone who can stand up to bullies like M$ deserves the support of decent people. Maybe it takes a look-alike to get the message over to the masses? We need more public-spirited and enlightened developers like those from Omnia. Maybe they can include some other 'proprietary' products like music, video & so on from the greedy Hollyweird camps.
17 • Omnia XP (by Adam Drake on 2009-04-06 12:44:38 GMT from United States)
"Its availability equals that of a pirated application or film."
The only thing I think Ladislav needs to be careful with is offering links to downloads for Omnia XP or its torrent. I'm envious of the guy who has enough time to waste copying MS's 7 or 8 year old desktop. It might be good for tricking people for some practical joke, but a whole distribution based on Windows XP and even sharing parts of the name is a joke.
18 • smxi script(s) (by anticapitalista on 2009-04-06 12:48:21 GMT from Greece)
Congratulations to h2 on receiving the well-deserved donation.
Just to add that smxi is not only useful for Debian sid and sidux users, but also Debian Testing based distros such as antiX (where smxi is installed by default, unlike any other distro as far as I know), DreamLinux and of course Debian Stable distros such as MEPIS and Debian Lenny itself.
19 • @15 (by MR on 2009-04-06 12:49:48 GMT from United States)
@15: No, it's more like cheap knock-off merchandise meant to fool people (ie, "Guci" shoes vs. "Gucci"), except in this case what Omnia is knocking off is a bad product to begin with. And if the goal is to make it more welcoming to Windows users I suspect it will backfire -- Omnia looks so much like XP that a naive Windows user would expect it to behave like XP and run XP software, which it clearly won't. Expect a short and ugly life for this one.
20 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 12:50:20 GMT from Canada)
Somnalist, I'm sorry but you don't get to pick which laws you obey and don't. Copywrite laws are there for a reason. Flip this around, lets say you worked on some software and put a lot of time and effort and your livelyhood depends on selling it. How would you feel is some small developer stole your ideas, repackaged the product as their own and gave it away? Companies don't start large, they got there through inovative ideas that appeal to the masses. The laws exist to give everyone a fair chance to make a profit for their ideas.
Bottom line Lindows(Linspire) already fought this battle and lost.
21 • Needed feature - boot HD ISO image (by anonymous on 2009-04-06 13:03:40 GMT from United States)
Hi all,
This new release of Parted prompts me to ask/re-ask the following:
Is there *any* way to boot an ISO image stored on a hard drive?
It would be SO nice to test distributions without the usual download,
burn CD, see if the burn really boots, reburn, install, try again nonsense :).
Any takers ?? , or have I missed something simple.
warm regards to all fellow hackers :)),
Wiz
22 • smxi (by Jasperodus on 2009-04-06 13:04:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, excellent work from h2 in producing these awesome scripts - very well deserved donation!
My thanks h2 :)
23 • Window Managers (by Notorik on 2009-04-06 13:06:07 GMT from United States)
Can anyone point me to a good comparison/review of different window managers. This topic was recently discussed in the Wolvix forums and I realized that I really don't know that much about it. Maybe this could be a good idea for a DistroWatch article?
Enlightenment
Xfce
Blackbox
Fluxbox
Openbox
LXDE
Icewm
Equinox
Pekwm
JWM
Pywm
Gnome
etc...
24 • RE: 23 • Window Managers (by Béranger on 2009-04-06 13:11:00 GMT from Romania)
It's from April 2005, but it was nice:
http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/pdfs/LXF65.round.pdf
It compares: evilwm, Ratpoison, Blackbox, PWM, Ion, TrsWM, larswm, lwm, wm2, Window Maker, IceWM, Fluxbox.
25 • Parted Magic, another interesting DWW (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-04-06 13:16:18 GMT from United States)
Kudos to Chris for another interesting and informative DWW.
Let me joint the ranks of those saying nice things about Parted Magic. When my netbook arrived in late January it had three partitions: a 74GB main partition with Ubuntu Netbook Remix installed, a swap partition, and a recovery partition with Clonezilla and an image of the default installation. I much prefer keeping my /home directory separate from my OS and with an 80GB hard drive I have more than adequate space to have 2-3 distros (not counting Clonezilla) on the little machine at all times.
Anyway, I used Parted Magic to break the big partition into four parts: three 7.5GB partitions for UNR plus two other distros and a 50GB /home partition. I have an external DVD drive so I downloaded Parted Magic and burned a mini (3"/8cm) CD-R. It worked as I would have expected. It booted right up, loaded itself into RAM and allowed me to easily repartition the drive without losing anything in the existing main partition when it was reduced to 7.5GB.
I played with the distro a little bit just to see what it could do. It correctly detected both my wired and wireless networks. It was fast and responsive. In general Parted Magic is a great little tool and Chris did a great job reviewing it.
26 • #21 "Frugal" install (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-04-06 13:19:48 GMT from United States)
The answer to your question is, yes, it can be done and it's not hard to do. That's precisely what a "Frugal" install (originally known as a Knoppix Poorman's install) does. Many distributions support this including Knoppix, Damn Small Linux, Wolvix, TinyCore Linux, Vector Linux, Slax, AliXe, etc... Any live distro built with the Linux-Live scripts has this capability.
27 • Omnia: Cue the MS lawyers in 3..2..1.. (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 13:23:22 GMT from United States)
I'm amazed at how similar "Omnia XP" is to Windows. I doubt that particular distribution has any longevity before Microsoft sends a C&D.
28 • Window Managers and frugal install (by anticapitalista on 2009-04-06 13:32:44 GMT from Greece)
#23 and #24
I agree that an up to date review of WM's would be very useful and interesting even to those users of full featured desktop environments. There are some new WM's since the April 2005 article, well one I can think of which is awesome and it is indeed awesome.
http://awesome.naquadah.org/
#26 'Any live distro built with the Linux-Live scripts has this capability.' ... and not only. Basically you can get any Linux distro to boot frugal/fromiso.
29 • @21 (by Alexandru on 2009-04-06 13:33:47 GMT from Germany)
I searched for a possibility to boot from a .iso image from hard disk. Unfortunately it isn't possible, at least not now.
The reason is that currently LILO, GRUB, etc can't mount the disk partition and then the iso image from it. For this purpose you will need to load some Linux kernel (possible, not only Linux), that is able to do this double mounting (partition -> image).
However, you can (I don't know how, but theoretically) boot the same Linux kernel from a partition as you have in iso, and make a custom initrd to mount the iso image and to chroot to it.
This trick is known to work, however, it isn't universal in sense, for each iso image you will need different kernel and initrd.
30 • #20 (by Notorik on 2009-04-06 13:40:00 GMT from United States)
#20 Obviously you are coming from the perspective that capitalism and free markets are good and that they work. Just throw in a few laws to protect the oligopolies and monopolies and life is sweet for everyone (who is rich). Microsoft has continually engaged in unfair/illegal practices since it's inception. It has attempted to monopolize the industry and block or eradicate any other free market entity that Bill Gates perceived as possible competition. It is indefensible.
#24 Thanks. That is what I was looking for. It would be nice to see an updated one though if things have changed significantly since 2005.
31 • Chakra, Etc. (by Justin Whitaker on 2009-04-06 13:40:58 GMT from United States)
Ooh, Chakra looks just like what a lazy nerd like me needs-arch without all the install hassle.
Omnia looks to be a legal headache waiting to happen.
Philosophically, I think this is exactly the wrong thing for Linux distributions to do. We should be staking out our own territory, not rehashing XP and OSX eye candy.
32 • smxi donation (by IMQ on 2009-04-06 13:53:06 GMT from United States)
excellent! glad to see it receive the donation.
33 • #21 Run ISO from harddisk (by CombatWombat on 2009-04-06 13:54:22 GMT from New Zealand)
Why don't you run an ISO file from harddisk using KVM or VirtualBox? They both handle this easily and freely.
34 • @23 Window Managers ... (by Coffee on 2009-04-06 13:57:25 GMT from France)
This website ...
http://xwinman.org/
... provides a good overview of window managers and desktops for linux. But there seem to be no reviews or comparisons.
35 • Parted Magic (by Jesse on 2009-04-06 13:58:04 GMT from Canada)
I use Parted Magic at work to handle various drive operations. It's a great little tool that never fails. I highly recommend it. I think the current version also comes with the ability to wipe data off drives, which can be handy for those about to throw out an old hard drive.
36 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-06 14:00:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re Omnia buzz...
Ahem...Did anyone clock the release date on the Omnia site?
37 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-06 14:12:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
Further to # 36...
Mint blog did the same gag...with Mint2...combining Mint and Vista...and charging a mere $299.
Speaking of which...managed to get Mint6 onto a usb stick using the install-to-usb tool in U9.04 beta, which itself was running off another usb stick.
I can see int h/ds becoming a sort of appendix...leading to needing only an external h/d to save to. With so little power required you could get rid of the PSU, use a 12volt battery with a nail banged in the side to get your 5volts, hmmm I may be onto something...probably medication.
38 • Re:34, 23 (by sertse on 2009-04-06 14:16:31 GMT from Australia)
xwinman is outdated
Try http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/
Memory usage comparsions are particular interesting,
39 • Parted Magic (by Brian on 2009-04-06 14:16:57 GMT from United States)
Parted Magic has saved my butt so many times, including once last week. It is the best hard drive rescue CD I have found. The tools are plentiful, and it is even useful for someone who does not even touch a Linux Distribution, and needs to rescue their Windows partition.
Figures I downloaded and burnt Parted Magic 3.7 about two days before the release of version 4.0 *rolleyes*
Great DWW, Chris.
40 • #30 (by Robert A. Eiser on 2009-04-06 14:19:18 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
41 • Gnome 3.0 (by Coffee on 2009-04-06 14:33:51 GMT from France)
I'm using Ubuntu/Gnome and I'm reasonable happy with it. But there are many many things in the Gnome desktop I'd like to see amended ...
- Gnome performs generally slower than any other linux desktop
or window manager. If the project is planning to do something
about the user experience for version 3.0 they should start
here.
- bugfixing on a grand scale. Although versions 2.4x/2.6x work
reasonably well they're still full of annoying bugs. One of the
many examples for this is the menu editor alacarte which is
extremely sluggish and contains a number of bugs.
- redesign of Gnome's window manager so that it remembers
the size and position of windows. I find Gnome's automatic
window placement strategy irritating. I also find that it is a
bit patronizing not to leave the choice of wm behaviour to
the user. The 'take it or leave it' attitude of some of the
Gnome designers should have no place in a modern
linux desktop.
- redesign of the file picking dialogue. The current version is
counter-intuitive.
- redesign of the confirmation dialogue. The current version is
counter-intuitive, illogical and at times outright misleading.
- a new, simple and fast performing file manager along the lines
of PCmanFM or Thunar.
42 • Re:38 (by Coffee on 2009-04-06 14:35:42 GMT from France)
> xwinman is outdated
... ahh, thanks.
43 • Q: any distro that checks all the devices at every boot? (just like LiveCD) (by CuriousChimp on 2009-04-06 14:36:02 GMT from Japan)
[ This is a follow up of previous week's comments; ref
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090330&mode=67 ]
Hi there,
thank you very much for the useful inputs to my post, #195.
My biggest concern now is that if the installed distro fail to
boot not because the installed media is external usb hdd, but
because modules and X (use of fb could avoid this problem).
I mean, live CD distros automatically detect and setup (almost
all) devices at every boot whereas installed linux relies on
files under /etc which is written at the installation time.
If the installed distro behaves exactly the same as the
installation media (i.e. live CD) at every boot, then I don't
need to worry about setting up the system (to be precise, my
roommate). -- just a reminder, I'm ok w/ any linux/bsd/unix,
but my roommate is a n00b, and I'm trying to set up a system
s.t. he can enjoy linux w/o major problems and w/o my assist.
Please let me know if there's any way or any distro which
checks and setup devices for every boot.
-- below is a bit tangent, but if you've got an answer to my
question, please read on --
Some might say that use live cd all the time, and use the usb
hdd for personal data. I'd like to avoid using live CD all the
time because 1. they're usually slow 2. if the PC got only one
cd drive, there's no chance to brows other cd roms (and no
chance of burning a new CD / remastering the live CD)
3. it's not convenient to bring live CD roms all the time
along although it's nice to have one just in case.
Puppy can liberate the only cd drive, but Japanese version
seems not catching up the latest release (4.2). -- yep, as
you can guess from the "from" of the header, we need Japanese
support.
Some ppl mentioned that booting off from a usb hdd might be
troublesome, but after reading
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootFromUSB?highlight=(bootfromusb)
http://marc.herbert.free.fr/linux/win2linstall.html
I'm convinced that there shouldn't be problems because
1. vista/xp installed PC most likely to provide usb hdd boot option.
2. in case of #1 w/o usb hdd boot by BIOS, grub allows usb boot.
3. in case of win9x w/o usb boot option, use loadlin.exe.
Regarding the suggested distros, I had tried some of them few
months ago for myself when I decided to re-install linux. (dump
ubuntu on my notebook). I didn't like vector (5.9 live) at
that time, but since new version has been released, I'll let my
roommate try it as well as wolvix, zenwalk, and others.
Thanks for reading.
44 • omnia (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 14:46:55 GMT from United States)
"Somnalist, I'm sorry but you don't get to pick which laws you obey and don't."
Actually you can, and I do. there is no freedom other than that which you take for yourself...don't be a pussy
45 • @ 21 Booting from HDD (by Wolven on 2009-04-06 14:49:57 GMT from Norway)
If Parted Magic uses the Linux live scripts (I didn't check) you can load it from the ISO on your HDD. Though you need to boot from the CD first to launch vmlinuz and initrd.
Place a copy of the ISO in the root of your hard drive (not inside a directory), boot up from the CD and at the prompt use the cheat code:
linux from=/dev/XdYN/name.iso
(Replace XdYN with your hard drive and partition, like hda3 or sda2, etc. And name.iso with the file name of the ISO)
Once vmlinuz and initrd is loaded you can eject the CD, it will load the rest of the OS from the ISO on the HDD.
Again. I didn't test this, and unless the distro is using the Linux live scripts this might not work.
46 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-06 14:54:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re #44
I presume you are writing "anarchix"...not for cats?
47 • RE #41 (by Kenji on 2009-04-06 15:12:45 GMT from United States)
[- Gnome performs generally slower than any other linux desktop
or window manager. If the project is planning to do something
about the user experience for version 3.0 they should start
here.]
GNOME performs slow on Ubuntu but it is not 'generally slower'. Try the Foresight liveCD and you will see just how fast GNOME can be if implimented correctly. GNOME on Mandriva is also quite fast and responsive.
I have also heard that KDE can be slower on Ubuntu than on other distros but I wouldn't know.
My point being that Ubuntu can be sluggish.
48 • smxi is not a good choice for me (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 15:28:18 GMT from Canada)
smxi is just a script shell ... (although well done) that do simple adminstration task ... for me it does not deserve a donation while there is a lot of more sophisticated project that are very useful in our everyday work !
49 • PMagic 4.2 (by Nobama 2012 on 2009-04-06 15:31:20 GMT from United States)
Let me join the chorus of people applauding earnestly and appreciatively about Parted Magic 4.2 As a former Partition Magic (Windows App) user/admin, I found that this little app, Parted Magic 4.2 (Linux), made my dual partition setups a breeze. Partion Magic 8.xx (Win) drove me crazy and it thrashed quite a few boot sectors on some of my systems. It's probably a good app in MS only situations.
Parted Magic 4.2 (Linux) handles both including reading and writing to my NTFS partition which I could not do with other app. The review here was awesomely informative. The bad is my employer will not adopt it because he says it's "Open Source!" but that has not stopped me from recommending it.
50 • GParted (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 15:47:24 GMT from United States)
Does this one really recover partion data even ones that have been overwritten by a fat32 error log partion from another recovery tool?
Will it recover partitions that have been changed by another linux install gone amok?
If so this may make my wife very happy.
51 • Re: 8 • KABOOM! (by Ariszló on 2009-04-06 16:02:15 GMT from Hungary)
"KDE4 is in Debians unstable."
It is in experimental, isn't it?
http://packages.debian.org/sid/kdebase
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdebase
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde4.html
52 • smxi (by RuralRob on 2009-04-06 16:09:46 GMT from United States)
I am glad to see smxi getting the recognition (and donations) it deserves. This set of scripts eliminates many headaches involved in updating and maintaining Debian machines, especially ones running Sid-based distros like Sidux.
With KDE4 now in Sid, the smxi author is going to be very very busy over the next week or two, I suspect.
53 • @ #51 (by arno911 on 2009-04-06 16:15:22 GMT from Germany)
first 64bit packages hit unstable already, the party has started.
54 • Re: @50 Recovery (by Nobama2012 on 2009-04-06 16:17:46 GMT from United States)
Well I am not sure if Gparted is up for that task but, Using Parted Magic might help. Parted Magic is a collection of disk related utilities all in one convenient and easy to use Linux GUI interface.
Although Gparted is the main component of Parted Magic 4 you might not need to use it right away. You will need to use the TestDisk program under Parted Nagic 4, which is an odd name for what it actually does. You can find TestDisk in Parted Magic. But caution! It can be very destructive if you don't know the correct console parameters and menu items to select while using TestDisk.
To learn more about TestDisk before attempting a recovery go to:
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
Read this Wiki before attempting a recovery. You can also use Synaptic to add TestDisk in to your current distro
Nobama2012
55 • Parted Magic and UFS2 (by Michael M. on 2009-04-06 16:20:03 GMT from United States)
Am I wrong or does Parted Magic not handle FreeBSD's filesystem, UFS2? It doesn't look like it, from what I can gather on the project's website. I've been wanting to re-do my desktop layout and try dual-booting FreeBSD and Debian (which is what I currently use), but it doesn't look like Parted Magic will be useful for resizing FreeBSD down the road, should I need to.
56 • smxi (by RazberrieTart on 2009-04-06 16:39:25 GMT from United States)
smxi 'is' a very nice tool, I will say myself that I couldn't run sidux without it, and a little pat on the back for h2 will sure go a long way. Nice. It just makes me happy inside when everything runs smoothly and I haven't broken anything beyond repair. Which has come close a few times.... smxi, for me, is invaluable.
ilu h2 ^_~
57 • Re: @55 Free-BSD Dual Boot (by Nobama2012 on 2009-04-06 16:39:33 GMT from United States)
Looks like you might need the Ranish Partition Manager. It will resize your Free-BSD partitions and setup you linux ext3 partitions as well.
http://www.ranish.com/part/
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,6170-order,4-c,harddisk/description.html
Nobama2012
58 • Review (by Rivet on 2009-04-06 16:48:54 GMT from India)
In future, there should be review of Omnia XP and Linux XP.
59 • Chakra Linux (by MacLone on 2009-04-06 17:43:26 GMT from Mexico)
I have been using Chakra alpha2 for a couple of weeks with all updates and is trully fast, usable and stable. I'm a gnome guy but what this guys made to Arch linux and KDE4 is amazing.
Fully recommended to install and use.
60 • Moblin (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 17:43:28 GMT from United States)
"It's great to see Moblin in the hands of such an organisation which should see the technology developed transparently in conjunction with the community."
No, this is in fact unfortunate..
One thing the Linux community is not good at is standards. I was so much hoping that Moblin would be a real "standard". Linux on netbooks will probably remain a set of OSes that most vendors will not support.
On netbooks, as opposed to big boxes, it would have been nice to have given vendors a single target to aim at. It would have been nice if the community provided a system aimed at the same set of users that netbooks were created to serve. So a netbook user could walk in a store and find a box that says "Moblin compatible" on it.
61 • REF#48 - No to smxi ! (by Anonymous on 2009-04-06 18:19:39 GMT from United States)
"smxi is just a script shell .." My feelings exactally. It's main use if for Sidix or t lease it came out of that environment .
It's just a shell script and it took FOREVER for it to end.
Someone needs to rewrite that code using "C" or some other language thats more native to assembly or firmware code.
Large shell scrips tend to be sluggish. "smxi" is no exception
62 • @ #61 (by arno911 on 2009-04-06 18:51:11 GMT from Germany)
time for some anonymous neysayers to drop some lines of C code, just to give something back to the community and make smxi deprecated :)
calling for action is one thing, getting active another. h2 got active and made smxi, now its your turn to make it better :)
b.r.
arno911
63 • @21 (by chemist on 2009-04-06 19:04:57 GMT from Germany)
It is possible to boot from an iso like Wolven described it in Posting 45.
Example: Debian.
Please look at this Debian text, it is described there in total:
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s01.html.en#boot-initrd
"(...)
Alternatively, if you intend to keep an existing partition on the hard drive unchanged during the install, you can download the hd-media/initrd.gz file and its kernel, as well as copy a CD iso to the drive (make sure the file is named ending in .iso). The installer can then boot from the drive and install from the CD image, without needing the network.(...)"
64 • Omnia XP (by Guilherme Straioto on 2009-04-06 19:11:58 GMT from Brazil)
Dear, users of DistroWatch, I am the creator of the Omnia, I am incredibly impressed with the comments of the Omnia, I do not think the legal review without knowing the history of the project. The Omnia is a project of training for our faculty of technology in Brazil, Brazil is a developing country where small businesses or schools must cope with great difficulties in the high values for software licenses. Frankly I do not think the legal Windows XP Theme, this theme was not that I created, I prefer the standard style of Gnome. But there comes the great difficulty, as porting Linux to a Windows user who only used in life? This project is individually made by me using tools like remastersys, we offer an option to telecentres, schools, small businesses or even home use. For patent in the next version we want to change.
We have great difficulty where to host the file. Iso image of the Omnia, due to our large application service provider blocked, can someone help? Why do I continue with this interesting project? I could let it save on my disk and not available to everyone.
Regards Guilherme Straioto
65 • Host Omnia XP (by Mike on 2009-04-06 21:08:23 GMT from Netherlands)
Creating a torrent would probably solve your problem.
66 • New Link Download Omnia XP (by Guilherme Straioto on 2009-04-06 21:21:09 GMT from Brazil)
Because the load on the ISP that hosted the Omnia, change the download location through the help and partnership of the company Vértice Development http://www.vd0.com.br, Thanks to everyone who help me in this project, different from other only look at your navel.
http://omnia.guinux.com.br/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32
67 • DistroWatch database summary (by nix on 2009-04-06 21:29:21 GMT from United States)
I am probably missing something... but how are these figures added.
Number of all active distributions in the database: 298
Number of discontinued distributions: 264
298 + 264 = 562
There are 47 distro's that are in some gray/grey area.
Number of all distributions in the database: 609
Just curious...
68 • Gnome's plans (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-06 21:59:07 GMT from United States)
GNOME's 3.0 plans are fascinating. Read them if you have the chance.
Obviously, this would be the time for a visual refresh. If you have any artsy friends, I think this would be the time to sit them down in front of the Ubuntu or Debian desktop, show them the themes dialog box, and tell them, "Make ART!"
I'd love to see the results of a widespread theming obsession epidemic.
69 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-06 22:15:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Calculate (CLD version) anyone?
Looks quite interesting as first impressions go...but I'd confirm it needs a fairly swift machine with plenty of ram. Might need a bit of work in the wifi dept tho'...but certainly worth a gand.
70 • New Distros (by Landor on 2009-04-06 22:35:01 GMT from Canada)
I've been shaking my head lately at the recent decisions here for adding various distributions. I'm finding it somewhat unclear what a distribution means anymore, well, in other people's view of it anyway.
We have only alpha releases showing up. There's a distribution that's not a distribution in any sense of the term that I've ever been aware of. and has nothing built (visible to the general public the last time I checked)
I think that the Debian crew bring the BSD kernel to Linux is a good thing, but also in a sense, I do think it's a bit of a waste because it's not only the kernel that makes it so good, it's the userland as well. Far more secure and stable than the Linux userland that isn't maintained by one source on a whole...
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
71 • thanks for the donation (by h2 on 2009-04-06 23:23:38 GMT from United States)
The donation this month is very much appreciated. I'm glad to see that people appreciate this set of applications.
For what it's worth, the reason this stuff works is that I never accepted that scripting languages are 'just a shell/php/etc script', but that any programming language if treated seriously and with some discipline can do whatever you want it to do. The benefits of using a super fast to update shell script far outway any relatively small speedgains (relative as in .4 seconds vs .1 seconds) to load data.
Plus, there's a delightful absurdity in actually writing an actual application in bash/sed/awk, and having it work for people.
The point of this script isn't some execution blip of speed, it's delivering in real time fixes and improvements directly to the user. I would have posted a bit earlier but I had to add the new beta 185.19 driver to sgfxi, which took a minute or so to put live....
So thanks again to everyone who has liked and enjoyed these scripts/applications, it's been fun doing it I have to say, the problems that needed solving when using bash are interesting to put it mildly.
Inxi showed me the true outer limits of what you can practically do and maintain with bash/gawk with a script of any complexity, and smxi will continue as it has, developing and evolving with the systems that run it, for the people who run it, until it either becomes unwanted or unneeded.
Thanks ladislav, this stuff has been a monstrous amount of work over the years, far more than most people realize, there's a reason the code base is as big as it is, so it's nice to see the work recognized.
72 • RE: 67 DistroWatch database summary (by ladislav on 2009-04-06 23:30:55 GMT from Taiwan)
The missing 47 distros are labelled as "dormant", i.e. no longer active (in terms of web site news, repository updates, etc.), but perhaps not yet completely discontinued.
73 • Check out Chakra (by Mark on 2009-04-07 00:40:00 GMT from Australia)
>Ooh, Chakra looks just like what a lazy nerd like me needs-arch without all the install hassle.
Yes indeed. Be advised howevfer that Arch is a "rolling release" distribution, so that it is now at KDE 4.2.2, whereas the CD images available for download are KDE 4.2.1 (I think). Anyway, what happens is that if you use Shaman to update your install, then all of KDE is updated, which amounts to a large download. This is the price one pays for a rolling release.
Having said that, the system you end up with is very functional, a full KDE4, and it is blazingly fast.
Since Mandriva 2009.1, Fedora 11 or Kubuntu 9.04 are not released yet, and Debian has only just managed to get KDE4 into unstable, Chakra Linux (which is basically KDEmod on top of Arch) is the only current distribution AFAIK that delivers KDE 4.2 or later.
74 • smxi, inxi, sgfxi, svmi, and rbxi (by Paul on 2009-04-07 02:02:33 GMT from United States)
Thank you, thank you, thank you. h2 has done the debian/sidux communit an invaluable service with his scripts. That DistroWatch has recognized his efforts this month with the Mars donation. Is smxi 'perfect?' Is any code perfect? No. But smixi, along with the other scripts that h2 is maintaining, are pleasures to use. In a word, they just work. And when a true 'bug' is identified, h2 quickly squashes it.
If you use any of the scripts that h2 is maintaining, and you find them useful, please concider supporting his efforts.
Congrats h2!
75 • smxi receives $200 (by ceti on 2009-04-07 02:03:21 GMT from Brazil)
Congratulations, h2!
76 • Re. 20 (by uz64 on 2009-04-07 03:56:56 GMT from United States)
"Companies don't start large, they got there through inovative ideas that appeal to the masses."
Is this a joke? What about Macrovision? All those patent troll businesses? Even in the case of Microsoft, they didn't get to where they are today for being "innovative." They got to where they are by buying almost everything they've ever developed from other companies and then labeling it as their own, being there at the right place and at the right time, and making some (in retrospect) HUGE deals with IBM (in terms of DOS). Not to mention, questionable tactics, such as forcing people to use THEIR version of DOS if they wanted to run Windows (9x).
MS-DOS? A re-branded QDOS, which was itself a clone of CP/M.
Windows Defender? Originally Giant AntiSpyware.
VirtualPC? Originally developed by Connectix.
Sysinternals? Bought out, now a part of Microsoft.
Halo? Microsoft bought the creator, Bungie.
And tons more.
Okay, so they can be credited for creating the Win32 API (is this anything to be proud of?) and the NT kernel (which is good, but thanks for listening to the **AAs and adding BS like DRM deep down inside it... yawn). Oh, and I can't forget that Microsoft Bob was one of their "true" inventions. Innovative, eh?
77 • GPTing Hard Drives (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-07 05:48:03 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Thanks Chris for another great review.
I've been using Parted Magic for a couple of years now and its saved me a lot of headaches (though it occasionally creates a few too if you don't watch what you're doing). I'm particularly interested in the option to format an HD with GPT.
sysresccd.org states:
To use GPT with linux you need:
* A linux kernel with the GPT support (option CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION set to yes)
* A boot loader that supports GPT (grub-0.97 needs a patch)
How do I know if the kernel I'm using has GPT enabled? Did you stumble across whether GPart is compatible with it also? I don't think so (if I recall correctly, at my latest dive into partition table destruction, GParted spat the dummy when it found 6 primary partitions.
GPart is a wonderful little program that has recovered my foolishness in partitioning more times than I care to recall.
I don't like using extended partitions and I know that GPart gets confused with them also (at least it's way more difficult to recover multiple extended partitions with GPart than primary ones unless you remember exactly how big your deleted partitions were. Anyone that has used GPart will know what I mean).
And if I haven't suggested it before, I'd like to suggest a review of HD recovery tools/ distro's and how to use them....
Anyway thanks for another great DWW
78 • Omnia XP (by Anonymous on 2009-04-07 05:50:56 GMT from France)
I for one love this project. I don't care about those who don't get it and about alleged copyright problems. Who cares seriously? Windows XP is close to 10 years old. They don't sell it anymore. I think the arkwork is public domain already in many countries. And if it is not, who is going to sue? Who does still care about XP?
I am going to install it because I love the theme. It makes me nostalgic. I remember the good old days when 256Mb of RAM was huge. You had to reboot everytime you installed something and crashing the graphical interface was equal to crashing the computer. Those days were hard but they were fun too. Most of you people weren't born when we used Windows XP. You just can't get it.
79 • Offline user (by Azzorcist on 2009-04-07 08:01:26 GMT from Indonesia)
Hi,
I have asked in some DWW ago about Linux distro without the dependencies that like PC-BSD and someone said GoboLinux.
But, it's not what i looked for. Well, i didn't tested it but from what i read on the website it's just a script that makes different version of apps can live together in the newly structured file system.
What i really lookin for is distro that using something like the PC-BSD's PBI.
I'm an offline user, ican't use the package manager.
Why on earth they rely on online package manager when some people not even connected to internet and even if tyhey do their internet device driver might not supported.
I don't want to download that dependencies one by one when they sometimes just 7kB in size.
BTW, nice to see Distrowatch comeback to DistroWatch.
Weeks ago it became SpellWatch and then ConflictWatch. ;)
80 • @ 73 - Chakra Arch (by DeniZen on 2009-04-07 09:03:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Chakra Linux (which is basically KDEmod on top of Arch) "
It is that, but its much more too.
Its a whole install environment, which makes setting up Arch easy (Regular Arch is easy enough if you read the Wiki and follow it to the letter while installing Arch but ..)
Chakra adds a whole pile of useful Arch-esque Apps and also Flash, codecs etc.
Its magnificent.
But still Alpha - the Chakra installer
That said, once it is installed - its Arch, and KDE mod 4.2
:)
81 • To Offline Users (by em4r1z on 2009-04-07 09:29:35 GMT from Argentina)
Azzorcist, consider purchasing (or downloading) a whole set of Debian. Add the CD/DVD's as repositories and you'll be able to install the whole package collection (about 25,000 packages) with the package manager.
82 • Frugal installs and booting to an iso (two responses) (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-04-07 12:12:19 GMT from United States)
#28: While technically you are correct -- a frugal install can be done for any distro -- some distros make it easy to do this and others do not. I think for someone who wants to boot from an iso the easiest method is to boot to a live CD that then offers an automated frugal installer. That could be a nice simple GUI installer like Wolvix offers or a scripted installer like Damn Small Linux or Slax offer. Rolling your own is certainly possible but it requires a bit more knowledge and effort hence my suggestion of a few specific distros plus any others using the Linux-Live scripts.
#29: The method I am suggesting at least does not require a standard HD install be done first. You are correct that the kernel and initrd files do need to be copied to the hard drive external to the iso that will eventually be booted.
83 • In reply (by Chris on 2009-04-07 12:40:08 GMT from Australia)
77 • GPTing Hard Drives (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-07 05:48:03 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
I created GPT partitions using GParted (see my screenshots) which worked fine. As to whether your kernel supports it, there's probably a better way of checking, but if it's enabled you could check the config of the running kernel by gunziping /proc/config.gz and grep for the setting that's required. But I've not booted from GPT partitions, so I can't say for sure.
I do know that fdisk does not support GPT, but parted libraries do.
-c
84 • 4 MB become 4 GB (by Azzorcist on 2009-04-07 13:53:54 GMT from Indonesia)
#81
Do you mean use local repository?
It makes me download 4 GB DVD image when all i want is just install an app which in it's Windows port only 4 MB. ;(
Beside, i like the PBI and you know what OS method that when for example GIMP 2.4 out i can install it with my current OS. And when 2.6 out i remove the 2.4 and then install the 2.6 version in my current os without any upgrade or something like that.
There's hundreds or even thousands of distro out there. Why that kind of distro looks like doesn't exist???
85 • ref# 79 (by Anonymous on 2009-04-07 14:02:46 GMT from United States)
DistroWatch.
Weeks ago it became SpellWatch and then ConflictWatch.
Your right on that subject. Some people have nothing to contribute except spelling errors.
Regarding BSD's pbi, have you tried Linuxquestions forum?
86 • this week (by dave on 2009-04-07 15:32:20 GMT from United States)
Hello everyone and thanks chris and ladislav for your work this week!Indeed parted magic is a wonderful little distro and I have found a need for it in the past.It sems the creator(s)have put a lot of time and effort into this one as new releases are quite frequent here at DW.Another fine review chris.Well I gave omni xp a spin and it booted fine on my dimension4400.Upon startup I noticed a quick splash saying welcome to windows xp pro.For a second i thought I had put in the wrong disc...lol.Omni sure does look like xp but as a previous poster commented it only looks like it.I'd say it has about 5 percent of its functionality though.The lookalike thing imo is pointless because any windows userwould be lost on this one.For that matter it only has about 5 percent of the functionality of most linux distros...lol.It is a new release though.so this is to be expected i guess.Its got plenty of room to grow.Unfortunately I was unable to get online as it didnt rcognize my usb cable modem,and i looked everywhere and could find nothing as far as configuring the network.Perhaps if I had my computer hooked through an ethernet cord it would have.Interesting?...yes.Usable?...no.Not much more than a novelty to me.Perhaps someone more experienced than me could get more out of it.Any way im glad to see the new mandriva release i'll have too give that a go.I'd say its probably packing the best integration of kde out there at this time.
87 • #78 (by Notorik on 2009-04-07 15:35:59 GMT from United States)
I agree. But aside from all that, it seems to work very nicely.
88 • The Chakra Project (by Anonymous on 2009-04-07 15:46:11 GMT from United States)
The people involved in this project have done an excellent job and built upon Arch this is top notch. Both current and fairly stable as well. Unfortunately, KDE still sucks.
89 • Mandriva WOW! (by Mattias on 2009-04-07 20:07:34 GMT from Sweden)
It's seems that folks at Mandriva did it again...The new release Mandriva 2009.1 RC2 looks very, very solid.
90 • Mandriva RC2, smxi, sidux (by Chris H on 2009-04-07 21:20:17 GMT from United States)
I agree with Mattias, #89,
the new Mandriva is very good.
I've done two Gnome installs to existing partitions.
No problems.
I also use smxi with sidux;
I consider it a required addition to sidux.
Chris H.
91 • @73 (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-07 22:27:26 GMT from United States)
When I installed Fedora 10, it updated to 4.2 for me in the update manager. The CD/DVD shipped with 4.1, however.
But I'm keeping a good, sharp eye on Chakra. It looks very nice, and Arch is a great base. If only I could install Arch itself; I've tried many times but it's always too hard for me.
92 • Re: 83 - GPT, EFI Enabled in Mint KDE RC1 (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-08 00:26:21 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Thanks Chris,
I'm running Linux Mint 6 KDE CE RC1 (lots of bugs but then it's only an RC at the moment, though still a great distro. Can't beleive I'm actually enjoying KDE4, but Dolphin still sucks (my opinion, others may disagree) and Konqueror is missing features from 3.5, but I digress).
I couldn't find config.gz anywhere let alone in /proc but I did find the 'CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION' option in the /boot/config-2.6.27-11-generic file, and it's set to 'YES'
So for a Mint distro it's probably safe to assume that GPT is going to work.
Time to destroy some GPTed partitions (on a non-production rig!) and see if GPart (as opposed to GParted) and TestDisk can recover them correctly.
93 • re#92 dolphin filemanager (by hab on 2009-04-08 00:45:13 GMT from Canada)
quote from #93
"but Dolphin still sucks"
I have yet to find a gui file manager that gives me as much as midnight commander does. I started using it in dec95 after reading a very short review of it in a linux journal mag.
Evey update/upgrade of a gui file manger causes me to look at it again and see where its at. Invariably not satisfied, it is back to my beloved (n)curses interface (emulated now in X windows) and mc! Altho i must admit there is some visual discordance when i view it on say an enlightment desktop.
I kinda look at mc as a swiss army knife for linux. Just gotta be careful i don't cut my self i guess!
cheers
94 • Re:93 - Midnight Commander (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-08 01:57:18 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Hab,
I'd have to agree with you there. If I had a top ten must have, can't live without, programs list, Midnight Commander would be on it. I use it quite regularly. It can do so much in so little space and time. Sure, it's not as "pretty" as a GUIed app, but then I've always prefered the CLI for file management/ admin anyway.
A good example of an app that does what it sets out to do without being overly complicated, does it brilliantly, and doesn't pretend to be something it's not (hope that covers all bases ;-) )
I'm sure that Dolphin will eventually have what I expect from a file management app. These apps are always evolving and adding features over time. Dolphin and KDE 4 Konqueror are no exception. It's early days at the moment and I don't begrudge the developers for that, but I do find it greatly lacking (maybe "sucks" was a little harsh).
95 • re#94 software sucks (by hab on 2009-04-08 04:26:33 GMT from Canada)
@woodstock69
I don't disagree really with what you said tho!
It is axiomatic that ALL software sucks! Just some software sucks less than others! Linux for examlple, while it may suck, it sucks a whole shite load less than that other popular (so called) os, and at least for me it sucks way less than that fruity computy os. I had a pretty conventional all functioning hackintosh for a about a year but i realized i hadn't booted it for three months or so so i reclaimed the drive space and it is now in use. Even that particular proprietary gui never appealed to me in the way that linux does. Plus the fanboiism and hype around the fruity computy co. are to me at least, bordering on the repulsive.
No other mainstream os provides for my computer wants and needs like linux does. Its been an almost fourteen year journey so far and i just can't see myself running anything else. If you think that software sucks now, compare it with the stuff from a dozen years ago!
cheers
96 • Repositories, updates, PBI (by em4r1z on 2009-04-08 04:39:44 GMT from Argentina)
#84 Azzorcist on 2009-04-07 13:53:54 GMT from Indonesia:
You overlook the advantages of running Debian Stable with extra CD/DVD's packages when there's no Internet access. It runs smoothly, you have thousands of packages at your disposal and, from time to time, you can connect and download security patches. Using a repository ensures that your selection behaves AS A SYSTEM, no matter how many packages you install. That's why one command can update it all.
In contrast, if you install the (latest) applications separately there's no guarantee that your selection will work as a whole and you must update them separately to prevent security/system flaws. Moreover, because many packages rely on the same libraries, installing an application manually might not be possible, and if it were, other packages might have broken dependencies.
The idea of the PBI is interesting (Mac OSX behaves similarly) but these installations cannot be handled as a system and the content of many PBI's is ancient. Also note that because a PBI contains all the dependencies of an application, you'll install AND LOAD the same (shared) libraries multiple times.
97 • Ring any bells? (by forest on 2009-04-08 06:41:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just saw this, hmm...the bloke may have a point and it does reflect earlier comments on this board.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_desktop_neglect
The danger might be that "Linux", as in the community, looks in on itself and seems to be happy with that.
I refer to the many, "let's talk exclusively about me", type stuff from developers and the,"let's clear the air", type comments, or even, "let me clarify what I really meant to say".
All of the personal stuff is not really relevant or even that interesting...and by definition HAS to be biased...I should imagine most folk have enough probs of their own to be going on with.
98 • suck it and see / check your Chakra ;) (by DeniZen on 2009-04-08 09:08:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 88 and @92
re: 'Dolphin and 'KDE' "suck" '.
(I assume that was directed at KDE 4.x )
It's really, really worth reserving judgement and revisiting with an open mind ;)
KDE 4.0 and 4.1 did suck a bit - no doubt (4.0 sucked a lot)
4.2.1 is really very good. Really.
4.2.2 (I have that already on Arch) with the latest QT is excellent.
Fast , stable - and noticable KHTML performance improvements.
Its not a memory hog. I have a 512mb Laptop - and KDE 4.2.2 works exceptionaly well with that. (Mind, its is on top of Arch ;) )
Dolphin is a great FM once you get to know it. I cant imagine why anyone would say it 'sucked'.
It aint Thunar - its not so 'snappy' but then it does have a bucketload more features.
Re Chakra Project Arch Live install CD.
This really does make Arch and KDE 4.2 about as easy to install as, say OpenSuse or Mandriva etc.
The installer itself is still Alpha though, and it does warn that it may 'eat your hamster'.
Note: it is the Chakra installer that is Alpha - _not_ the Arch system you end up with once you have finished installing)
It didnt eat mine. It was flawless - apart from one thing
So- a tip for anyone wishing to try Chakra Arch (with usual 'milage may vary' caveat) -
It seems that the Chakra Live installer _may_ sometimes bomb out if you have your network connection up while installing from the Live CD.
I dont know why, nor is this the forum for that, but its simple enough to just install without a Network connection.
Then, on first boot, go to /etc/pacman.d/ and edit (via sudo or root) the 'mirrorlist' file, and just '#' out, or remove all of the Arch mirrors in the list other than the closest ones that you want to use. (keep those! - and a couple alternatives in the list).
Do that before using CLI Pacman or the (excellent) Shaman package manager to sync the repos and update your system - and its all (very, very) good from there ;)
May help chage your mind about KDE 4.x ( 4.2.2 )
Just waiting for K3b to be ported over to KDE4 now (due by end of April) and I'm sorted for a very funky and productive DE for the forseeable future :)
99 • #97 (by Notorik on 2009-04-08 09:56:59 GMT from United States)
Good point and interesting article. However, at what point do we realize that we don't really care if the rest of the world uses Linux? The presumption is that Linux must be adopted by some giant corporate sponsor for validation and survival. Personally, I think it would be nice if everyone used Linux but I don't really give a rat's ass either way. The people who need it will find it. I do think that it is inevitable that Linux will go mainstream in one form or another and maybe we should be trying to think of ways to stop it. What I mean is that once Linux becomes a corporate product it will lose the some of the tangible and intangible things that set it apart and make it special. One example of this is the passion of the developers and, in turn the community that grows up around each "flavor" of Linux. Just go back through the comments section of DistroWatch a few years and you can see the evolution taking place.
100 • M$ (by Tom on 2009-04-08 11:11:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
A M$ Engineer, a normal engineer and a mathematician were in a car going up to Scotland. They saw a cow and the M$ guy said "Oh, i didn't know they had white cows in Scotland." The engineer said "Err, we only really know that there's one white cow in Scotland". The mathematician said "Umm, really we don't even know that. We only know that there appears to be a cow, one half of which appears to be white".
Their car stopped and the M$ guy said "Quick everyone out, slam your doors and get back in. That should fix it.". Presumably the engineer fixed it or how else would we have known of their story ;)
Omnia was exactly what i was looking for when i first started with linux. Some familiarity to ease me in gently. Perhaps if it has Wine as standard and office apps defaulting to M$ ".doc" and ".xls" then many users really wouldn't know the difference. I think it's great and good luck to them. I'm happier with Wolvix for myself now but there's plenty of room for everyone and anything that stands a chance of drawing more people in seems like something worth having :)
101 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-08 11:53:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re #99
I think your comment has got me into thinking that there could indeed be a "fork" to use a well known term...in the way Linux is "used" in future.
That is to say the big corps do their thing with Ubuntu, Red Hat etc etc...and become the basis of all the major distros that currently seem to be in vogue as we speak...I include the distros for national use, in the venaculars, simply because they are well supported and take the load off the individual developers say.
And then...there are the hundreds of hobbyists' (I'm not being pejorative, really) distros where folk have the time and of course interest to experiment to their heart's content enjoying themselves.
I find I sit on the fence...I like the corporate edifice-ness (sorry) of Ubuntu with it's given reliability (well for me anyway, LOL) for general computing...and I like to see and admire what folk bring to the table with stuff like Wolvix or Puppy...and if the distro can be persuaded to live in a usb stick...or if you can use the Ubuntu usb installer to install distros other than Ubuntu ( you can, but it is fussy...)
I have also had a bit of fun playing with Chakra, Calculate and Centos 5...which, unfortunately, only continues to demonstrate I need a faster machine...some machines are destined never to know many distros, LOL.
So, if the community can follow that model it's a win, win situation all round.
102 • "Xandros Presto Powers-up Laptops in Seconds" (by Ian Caldwell on 2009-04-08 12:19:30 GMT from Australia)
Is the new Presto a "Linux Distro" and worth including on Distrowatch?
Above is Heading on Xandros Presto site,
http://www.xandros.com/news/press_releases/Presto_launch_09.html
103 • #102 (by Notorik on 2009-04-08 13:08:45 GMT from United States)
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=xandros
104 • RE:102 - Yes it is (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-04-08 13:18:09 GMT from United States)
Xandros Presto is indeed a closed source Linux distro from what I read and seems to target laptops. Xandros use to have an opensource edition for the desktop but they did away with that. It probably would be worth including on DistroWatch even if you do have to buy a license.
105 • #99 (by Realist at 2009-04-08 14:06:20 GMT from United States)
"What I mean is that once Linux becomes a corporate product it will lose the some of the tangible and intangible things that set it apart and make it special."
What do you mean, it will start getting apps that are actually good, having a full feature set, and actually work instead of the crap that Linux is full of now? Linux is a mess, the sound is a mess (Pulseaudio, more like PusAudio), the video/graphics is a mess, as said, most apps are crap, and KDE4, well, say no more.
Linux needs all the help it can get, and would probably benefit from being taken over from the corporate world. A least it would have some dirrection instead of just wondering around aimlessly, following this 'next best' thing, then that 'next best' thing when the previous one turns out to be a failure.
106 • Ref#102-104 (by John Gray on 2009-04-08 14:12:47 GMT from United States)
No ones going to pay $100 for a Linux desktop period. So fotttrgetabout it.
Why buy any Linux when 99% are free. Makes no sense.
107 • #105 (by Notorik on 2009-04-08 14:32:03 GMT from United States)
Thanks, that actually made me laugh.
108 • re#105 (by hab on 2009-04-08 15:22:50 GMT from Canada)
@Realist
Sorry, but your comments on linux being taken over by the corporate world just don't fly.
First of all linux, under the prsent licensing scheme can not be taken over, aquired, co-opted or killed and buried. Whatever state you perceive linux to be in be, i can assure you it is transitory. Linux is a work in progress, it keeps evolving. and ultimately will work past any present problem(s)!
Your seeming admiration off things corporate cause me to reflect on the corps. that are financial in nature. Seems to me that corporate banks, among others, are responsible for the financial shit hole planet earth finds its self in. There appears to be around a 650T$ hole in global finances. Approx. equiv. to 14 or 15 years annual gross plantetary product. I would not trust corporations with pocket change, let alone something as vital as linux.
I have to agree with notoriks observations in #99, linux in the hands of as many people as possible, both users and developers is the answer. The more there are discussions like this, in the open and not behind locked corporate doors, the better. Linux needs to used, maintained and updated completely in the open.
cheers
109 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-08 15:27:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anyone tried the Mint Flux' yet?
Seems to be fairly interesting...I have not had much to do with Fluxbox thus far, so something to play with later.
Oh and it works quite nicely off a usb stick too.
And re #105...I may have misunderstood you Realist...but I get the teeniest impression Linux doesn't do it for you, then?
110 • MintFlux (by capricornus on 2009-04-08 18:43:36 GMT from Belgium)
at 109
I did this afternoon. on a PentiumDualCore-system that runs everything. Everything but Mint6Fluxbox. I don't know why. It just stalled twice. And that's enough for me. While others, like Lenny, or Xubuntu or Sidux or Zenwalk installed flawlessly. (Zenwalks Lilo screwed it up, but that's another story).
111 • #109 (by Notorik on 2009-04-08 20:03:35 GMT from United States)
I am using it right now. First impression: It did take a LONG time to boot but once it gets there it is fast. To be fair, I should say I only tried the live version. I am sure it's much faster when it's installed. The sound does not work on my machine but that is probably because Pulseaudio doesn't support my sound card (I hate Pulseaudio the one thing I do agree with #105 on). Very clean, very slick. No trouble with etho, I haven't tried wireless. Apparently Mint now supports SATA or have I missed this in the past? Congrats to the Mint folks. Nice distro, love Fluxbox.
112 • Uh oh (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-08 21:31:31 GMT from United States)
The "realist" troll reveals himself? What will you do?
I think I'll laugh at him and call him a troll, because, of course, the opinion of another person has no real bearing on whether or not I use Linux. In fact, if every single other person in the world started using Windows I would still use Linux. I use it because it works.
It's funny how anti-Linux trolls have no understanding of subjectivity! Why on earth, "realist," (if that is your real name) do you find it necessary to come here and belittle the software that I and millions of other people find sufficient for our needs?
@ Mint Fluxbox: I downloaded all of the Fluxbox community edition of Mint, and it pooped out an error ten megabytes before it ended. Blast!
113 • @97 (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-08 23:09:31 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Interesting article, but for mine, I'm happy that Linux is a "niche" product. The best things in life are found by word of mouth and keeping that mouth shut. The best camping grounds, beaches, etc are ruined by popularity, vandals and too many people knowing about them before they really appreciate what it has to offer. We that do appreciate it, don't want vagrants. We want conservation. I see Linux the same way.
What worries me is that when Linux (the desktop) becomes as mainstream as windoze, will the prevelence of virus' and malware abound? I don't hear much about Mac virus' though. And other than proof-of-concept, I don't hear much about them on Linux, yet.
For now, I'm proud (and maybe slightly egotistic) to be part of a community that makes an OS for themselves and can share that OS with everyone without the need for payment. Of course I do my bit by recommending it to friends and hold their hand whilst I lead them through the deep end.
Linux isn't about money. It's about a better way to do something. And if the corporate world decides that "there's no money in the Linux desktop" then I'm happy to see them take a jump.
Long live Linux, its philosophy, and the freedom to choose my distro (as many times as necessary)
114 • re#113 virii (by hab on 2009-04-08 23:38:31 GMT from Canada)
Actually the security model for linux is not too bad. Because of the way that a user logs in to an account and does not gain system privilege means that they can at worst nuke their own stuff, not other users or the system. Unless off course someone is silly enough to run the box from the root account. That would be stupid, stupid, stupid!
Last time i checked there were some 600 unix virii, and 300,000+ win virii. I too have been curious to see if linux becomes a target as it becomes more widespread but in the last ten years it does not (yet) appear to have been targeted.
Keep your software up to date, and check the system logs occasionaly.
cheers
115 • Linux and virus propogation (by Mark on 2009-04-09 00:05:41 GMT from Australia)
>What worries me is that when Linux (the desktop) becomes as mainstream as windoze, will the prevelence of virus' and malware abound?
The answer to this is, basically, no.
Windows has a "permissive" policy ... basically Windows will execute something unless it has been told explicitly not to. This permissive policy is exacerbated by the fact that on many Windows systems the users run as root all the time. This has been changed in Vista because of UAC, but that is so annoying that many users turn it off.
Linux, by design, is the opposite. "Execute permission" flags are built in to the the filesystem, for every single file. The default for new files is to have no permission to execute. Users run with limited permissions (and applications are designed with this in mind), so that system commands (including commands to install new executables) won't run unless you (as a local user, sitting right there at the machine) provide the administrator password.
In a Linux environment, similar to a Mac, viruses have a far more difficult time trying to find (without any local user explicit grant of permission) even a way to execute, let alone a self-replicating and self-propogating mechanism.
116 • Chakra LiveCD installer and other KDE 4.2 contenders (by Mark on 2009-04-09 00:25:28 GMT from Australia)
>It seems that the Chakra Live installer _may_ sometimes bomb out if you have your network connection up while installing from the Live CD.
This happens, I believe, when the installer is "looking for the best mirror". If you uncheck that option (it is the default, so you must uncheck it) then the Chakra liveCD installer completes OK, even if you have a network connection.
Other new entrants in the just-started race to KDE 4.2 goodness:
Linux Mint has a new release of KDE 4.2.0. Given Mint's history, this should be a good option.
Debian is just now moving KDE 4.2 from PPA into Sid. Debian Sid is a "rolling release", like Arch. The Sidux distribution is jittery about this, but there are plans to release a new version of Sidux once this has happened.
Kubuntu Jaunty 9.04 features KDE 4.2, as does Fedora 11 (these are both still pre-release).
Mandriva 2009.1 has just released RC2, which works a treat with KDE 4.2.2 as far as I have been able to test so far. If you have a netbook, this may well be the answer for you, as Mandriva has paid special attention to ensuring this release works out of the box on netbooks. They are claiming that it works for all ASUS EEEPC models, and for Acer Aspire One and MSI Wind, and I can certainly attest that it works for the ASUS EEEPC 1000H.
KDE 4.2.2 is fast enough so that you can run it as a full-featured desktop on a netbook (although having said that, it is a bit sluggish on batteries only, when the CPU drops to 800 MHz). Make sure however that you turn off the "desktop effects" bling, which Mandriva does by default (I haven't tried Mint KDE4 as yet).
117 • KDE file managers (by Mark on 2009-04-09 00:37:25 GMT from Australia)
There has been a bit of comment on this thread about Dolphin, and also this:
>Evey update/upgrade of a gui file manger causes me to look at it again and see where its at. Invariably not satisfied, it is back to my beloved (n)curses interface (emulated now in X windows) and mc! Altho i must admit there is some visual discordance when i view it on say an enlightment desktop.
>I kinda look at mc as a swiss army knife for linux. Just gotta be careful i don't cut my self i guess!
Fortunately, in KDE, there is an abundance of choice.
Dolphin is actually a good middle ground, but Konqueror still works quite well as a file manager. These are both more focussed on the "GUI browsing and tidying my files" type of use case.
For those looking more at the "managing bulk files" use case, where mc is a choice that appeals, then an even more functional GUI tool for KDE is Krusader. Krusader has just recently been ported to KDE 4. This is an excellent GUI tool for use in the same types of situation where you might consider using mc.
118 • Omnia XP Rocks (by icc4p2 on 2009-04-09 00:46:26 GMT from United States)
thx for it
119 • @117, @105 (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-09 01:14:53 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
@117
Mark,
Thanks for reminding me about Krusader. I had forgotten to mention it, though I have it installed also. Then there's PCMan too. Between all these apps (choice is a wonderful thing), I eventually get done what I have too.
@105
Realist,
Good try. Your opinion is noted but flawed.
Experience shows that when money is a primary focus and motivation to produce a product, invariably the hunger for profit corrupts, and shortcuts are taken to hasten the path to riches. All at the expense of the original ideal.
120 • re#117 KDE file managers (by Anonymous on 2009-04-09 05:45:39 GMT from Canada)
@Mark
I've used krusader in the past and its a not bad stab at doing an OFM (Orthodox File Manager). Maybe because i came to computers before they had guis and i cut my teeth so to speak on the cli. (My first gui was GEOS on a c64 and later on a c128.) But i still almost reflexively fall back on mc for file management and system stuff. Maybe its just because i'm an old fart! Or it just works for me and i don't really want to change?
Anyhow if there are any budding or full fledged file manger junkies out there this page does the topic much more justice than a forum posting ever could. http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml
cheers
121 • Mint Flux (by DeniZen on 2009-04-09 09:02:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
Couple of folks asking whether anyone had tried out Mint Flux.
I gave it a spin last night out of curiosity (on the partition I'm reserving for Wolvix final ;) ).
Just my impression and observation (YMMV):
Its very nicely done indeed - as befits a 'Mint' product - but IMHO it has a fatal 'flaw' (given the intended end-game - i.e. 'lightness / swiftness') - in that it is based upon Ubuntu 8.10, which is just not a snappy base - at all.
So, to me, it felt a bit like stripping out the seats and carpets of a Haulage Truck, and expecting it to somehow become a Speed machine.
It _is_ very nicely done, but there are other distros that will run (even) KDE faster, and with more resources spare.
I have such a Distro already on the same Laptop, so thats not an idle observation.
Personally, I wouldnt dream of using this version of Mint Flux on an older / slower machine, and therefore - well .. whats the point IMO?
Sure, It may look sutably minimalistic - and appeal to individual taste - but it will still need to be used on a faster machine.
Mint KDE suffers from the same issue currently. It just feels very laggy indeed.
(Admitedly it was the last Mint KDE Candidate I tried - not the one released yesterday, but I cannot imagine how the laggy-ness can have been improved dramatically)
I like the Mint offerings very much indeed. It is not Mint's 'fault'!
I suspect that Ubuntu 9.04 will make a better base for a lightweight DE in time, as I have seen with my own eyes (a colleague has it on test here) just how much snappier it appears to be than previous releases, and seems considerably less of a resource hog.
122 • Omnia XP 1.1 (by linuxdog on 2009-04-09 09:03:33 GMT from United States)
i started up Omnia XP 1.1 as a live cd. the cat5 instantly did start and i was able to get on the internet. my sound did not work and prior to this package ... my sound always worked. i will devote more attention to this distribution when i can. the initial screens on the live cd was a complete suprise and very attactive for the xp users.
i will do a hard disk install of Omnia XP 1.1 to see if there is a lot more than i so far have been working with. i am not a gnome fan.
i normally use pclinuxos which is out to version 9.1. i have been testing the new pclinuxos 9.1, and so far it works well.
123 • Omnia 'XP' (by DeniZen on 2009-04-09 09:18:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
I dont get it. At all.
People are _not_ stupid!
Who is the intended target audience?
Who would _really need_ a distro to look like an XP clone?
But! - with (confusingly) a lot of differences to the UI / Operation as soon as you stray away from the fake start-menu copy.
Is that not a bit pointless?
A Linux Distro is not XP.
Surely people know that before they make the 'choice' to put a toe into the water?
Surely they have already done enough research to know roughly what to expect, and what may be on the learning curve - for the UI element at least?
Surely (e.g.) KDE 3.5.x (Or even IceWM for that matter) is not likely to be _that_ confusing a layout for anyone who is used to using XP?
(hello desktop - hello start menu - cello control panel...)
Surely (e.g) KDE 4.x is not _that_ a layout confusing for a Vista user?
Jeez, 'Linux' is not Windows. It should never need have to try to look like it.
Apols from using the word 'surely' so much :)
Each to their own - we have choice - as ever.
124 • buttons (by Tom on 2009-04-09 10:43:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Looks like a fish, Moves like a fish ... Steers like a cow
I got overtaken by one of these once, just before it smashed into the 3rd moon of andoras.
Windoze users can be soo incredibly pitiful. After i had used someone's machine once they went around telling everyone i had broken it. Warning them to be wary of me. Word got back to me and it turned out that they always full-screened file-browser consoles and i had left some un-full-screened - which meant that i had stolen the buttons at the end of course. They'd 'had' to pay someone to go through each folder and make sure that if it popped up un-full-screened then it would still fill up the whole desktop.
A work-colleague complained that his machine was totally fracked. I had assumed he had deliberately set things to open on a single click rather than having to double-click. He was deeply mistrustful and wouldn't let me near his machine so i had to talk him through the process of the 3 clicks to solve it.
Not that i'm bitter or anything. lol
125 • clicks (by Tom on 2009-04-09 10:52:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
4 clicks in Xp, sorry - see what i mean, i can't even get that right ;)
Windoze users really need everything to be identical or else they tend to feak out. As they daren't open the Control Panel and other scary things like that it only needs to be very superficially identical. I hope that firefox icon looks like the 'proper blue one' lol. It is a hopeless path trying to get it all the same. An exercise in futility with the rewards of condemnation of weeu's and the scorn of peers with potential litigation to look forwards to. I'm glad the works been done and it does look nice. I hope it makes a few people a little bit less uptight and adopt the linux way.
Good luck Omnia and regards from
Tom :)
126 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-09 11:25:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re #124
Tom, how right you are! LOL.
I suspect someone...the man in the shop(?)...had said computing is like a black art and you meddle with a computer at your own expense...and his profit.
And of course there is an element of truth to all that. Folk really are afraid of pushing the wrong buttons/keys...in case they reach, to them, an insoluble condition.
I have known folk, when helping them "fix" their computers (nothing really wrong...they were just in a condition they did not know how to resolve...), physically intervene because they have no idea what they are doing and are afraid, because of their own ignorance (I mean this in a nice way...), you don't either.
My dear old aunt (86) is quite au fait with using Skype...yet keeps turning the AVG update off every time she boots up. Incredulous, I asked her...why?
The response was, "Oh it always does that and i want to talk to ABC...now."
I explained why she MUST let the update function do the business and her final response was, really, "But it's such a nuisance having to wait for all this nonsense!"
At this point I felt it was pointless to carry on with..."When did you last scan your PC?"
I work on the principle that I have not discovered the ONLY person on the planet who does this...LOL.
But, worse, far worse, are some of my mates, who are certainly not at all uncomfortable with getting into the workings of MSxx...expressing grave doubts and suspicions about Linux. Yet they have never, ever tried to use it.
The view is that how can it be any good if it's FREE?
Even when you explain about the lack of virus problems say, it seems to me they go into denial mode, cos virii are like everywhere, right?
In the end I just get on with following old Lad's dictat, I get the fun back out of computing again...and again...and again...
127 • priceless (by Tom on 2009-04-09 12:51:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Presumably they pay cleaning staff to look after their home and pay for round-the-clock child care and pay for someone to do their cooking, laundry, washing up, ironing too lol. Oh, yes 'that's what the wifes for'!
When i've heard this sort of argument i've looked at how much the person contributes to the world around them and generally have to agree that linux is better off without them. Some of us don't do much but at least we try and do greatly appreciate what we get from some very dedicated people.
Thanks all, good luck and regards from, Tom :)
128 • Linux XP and Omnia XP (by Frisco on 2009-04-09 13:38:55 GMT from United States)
Those two distributions remind me of the Kawasaki and Yamaha and other Japanese motorcycles many years ago making the switch from their popular-in-Japan look, rather strange to Americans, and creating Harley-Davidson look-alikes. Popular instantly, especially amongst those without the money for the real thing.
That analogy, however, is inferior to one simple fact of the matter: Microsoft and its Windows operating system are not open source. Linux is. Therefor there are bound to be linux distributions which mimic Windows shamelessly (only 2?) for the simple reason that developers can make something that looks and feels a bit like the non-open source software that they admire.
Not my cup of tea (we left Windows to leave Windows in as many aspects as linux could offer us).
I see that Linux XP it is a commercial endeavor and that it began about 3 years ago. Must be doing ok in Russia at least.
129 • easter (by Tom on 2009-04-09 21:03:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
Happy easter weekend all :)
Is there an Eid too? errr, probably shouldn't start up with that but happy weekend to everyone its not easter for and happy easter everyone else heheheheh :)
@ 128 Frisco
I'm not sure that 'admire' is the right word, lol ;)
@ 126 Forest
Thanks, that eased my tension a bit.
130 • re#127,126 clueless windows users (by hab on 2009-04-09 21:22:21 GMT from Canada)
Just had to weigh in with my two cents worth on this subject 'cause i have more experience with this subject than i care to elucidate here!
Of the three users i'm supporting right now one is 18, one 45 and one at 52. All of them had some level of experience with windows and this is reflected in the questions they ask, the terminolgy they use and the way the question is asked. Understand that i answer zero questions that they have about windows travails. Run windows here and you are completely on your own. Linux is another story!
The 18 year old knew about linux and has had basically 0 problems and only a couple of sensible questions. and is happily playing with a new toy. The 45 year had no clue about it before but has now taken to linux fairly well but continues to try and relate his linux experience to his windows experience and some confusion ensues. The 52 year old has basically done a memory dump of windows knowledge and is comfortably sliding into linux. It doesn't have a graphical cribbage game yet but other than that everything is ok.
The upshot is that i recommend to every windows user that approaches me about linux, is to do a memory dump of everything they think they learned about computers and computing under ms/windows and forget about it 'cause now you get to work with and learn about a real computer operating system. Later the ms ways/terminology can slot into what you have learned. Much easier that way than the other way around.
cheers
131 • Slax 6.10 has been released! (by slaxuser on 2009-04-09 22:09:24 GMT from United States)
Dear fellow Distrowatch viewers, slax 6.10 has been released. Check out slax.org page for more :)
132 • Mint Flux (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-09 23:07:49 GMT from United States)
If you're looking for a fast Fluxbox, then Mint probably isn't for you. It's fast...ish.
AntiX would be better. I'd be using it right now if it had detected my monitor resolution. I'm about to dive into that bag o' fun, however.
I am having the same problem of Ubuntu bloat. Once you have the background processes, the DE doesn't matter. You're running Ubuntu, which runs the same on any DE until you start stripping things out.
133 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-10 01:28:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hmmm, MS must have really rattled Canonical's cage...this story has been doing the rounds of the IT online press for a while now:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5701694759.html
And, re #110...I get days like that too...glad it's not just me...LOL.
134 • Debian sid is on the cutting edge again (by puli on 2009-04-10 07:24:02 GMT from Finland)
Debian sid has now the latest KDE4, Xserver, kernel, and XFCE4 -- although not the latest GNOME, it seems. Preparing the Lenny stable release meant that for a long time Debian developers couldn't update sid like they wanted to. But now Debian sid has become a cutting edge "distribution" again!
135 • RE: 124 and linux superiority complex (by HH on 2009-04-11 00:12:39 GMT from Canada)
"After i had used someone's machine once they went around telling everyone i had broken it. Warning them to be wary of me."
And well they should. You go on someone else's computer, change default folder settings, and they're the pitiful ones? What are you doing changing settings on someone else's computer?? Oh, but it's their fault for being inexperienced right? GET OVER YOURSELF!
It seems to me there's a certain segment of linux users that cannot simply enjoy their own operating systems and need to go around insulting and criticizing others for making a different choice, and your post is a wonderful example. Pro-tip: Computers are an appliance, and not everyone has the skills or wants to be a mechanic.
Off-topic, hate-filled diatribes against others' free will, brought to you by Distrowatch. Classy!
136 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-11 02:23:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anyone look at Kwort?
installed OK, but could not get it to find a PCI wifi card in a PC or a usb wifi dongle and PCMCIA wifi card in a laptop.
No leds lit up on any device...but kit works ok on other distro.
Kwort mateys appraised.
137 • 135 (by Tom on 2009-04-11 08:31:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
Lol, you're really funny. It's not a "setting". Open any window and double-click on the title bar - that's the coloured bar at the top of the window and often has 3 little buttons on the far right; a little line, a box (or pair of boxes) and a cross. The cross can be used to close a window and the little box(es) can also be used to maximise the window to fill the screen.
If the person with the problem had contacted me then i could have fixed the problem in about 2seconds over the phone. However, it was easier for them to go around slating me to all and sundry rather than to bother contacting me. They had previously had some major problems on their machine such as extreme slow-downs, total freezes and BSODs - which i fixed and got the machine running really fast, as good as new.
Interesting that you should judge me without knowing any facts and that you see the post as 'hate-filled'. You seem to think i had deliberately done something wrong? I wonder if you judge yourself by the same yard-stick you judge others with.
Take care and open your heart to compassion & forgiveness to others, it's easter
138 • @135 (by Woodstock69 on 2009-04-11 08:34:53 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Diatribe: a bitter, sharply abusive denunciation, attack, or criticism
Hate: feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward
"....hate-filled diatribes....brought to you by Distrowatch..."?
Ahhhh... Mr Twain, you said it in one.....
139 • Linux is for geeks (by Anon on 2009-04-11 10:36:59 GMT from Norway)
#105, Realist, wrote: "Linux needs all the help it can get, and would probably benefit from being taken over from the corporate world. A least it would have some dirrection instead of just wondering around aimlessly, following this 'next best' thing, then that 'next best' thing when the previous one turns out to be a failure."
Very true. Not the entire truth, but too true nevertheless. Linux is the perfect pastime for geeks who don't seem able to find something worthwhile to study.
Linux works every time, between crashes. Here's my own little experience over just the last two days: First, Archlinux' Pacman performs a broken upgrade, resulting in aborted booting attempts. The only way to fix it, save for a complete reinstallation, is to edit mkinitcpio.conf. This can, theoretically, be done from another OS, provided you know what exactly went wrong and what to look for to edit. Perfect for geeks. Less ideal for people with concerns and obligations outside the innards of a computer.
Luckily, I had PCLOS sitting on other partitions, and it booted willingly. Then I got the ridiculous idea to 'refresh' the OS. Synaptic worked seemingly flawlessly and told me to reboot. No more working PCLOS; the system was a mess. Granted, it had been quite a while since I last upgraded it, but even so... No warnings. Texstar had apparently been away for a long while, too.
Now, what to do? Well, I had a THIRD OS! An oldish Bluewhite64. I got the most important things done, somehow.
There are people who like books because they are interested in bookbinding. Others collect soda corks. Then there are the Linux geeks.
140 • Different distros caters for different things (by sertse on 2009-04-11 12:15:16 GMT from Australia)
Arch risks "breaking" in return by the latest of everything. It was designed like that because it *targets* users who feel that trade off is worth it. For you it appears that it isn't, but there is nothing wrong that there are other it is worth it.
I note the one that eventually solved your issue, Bluewhite is Slackware,
a distro which caters for stability rather than the latest things.
So really, only PCLOS was an legit complaint for you.
141 • @139 (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-11 12:31:34 GMT from United States)
That's what you get for choosing Arch, which is rather fast and can break if you're not careful, or PCLinuxOS, whose 2009.1 edition is considered rather distasteful in recent times.
If you want stability, ask for stability. I don't see you doing that by the distros you decided to play with. Use Slackware, Debian, or CentOS if you want the sheer security and stability Linux can bring.
142 • RE: #96 (by Azzorcist on 2009-04-11 14:37:16 GMT from Indonesia)
Actually, Debian is what i'm thinking to use.
But, that my personal preference, stable OS with cutting-edge applications.
Using Debian, i can get a very stable OS, but cutting-edge apps?
And about PC-BSD PBI. It is really memory consumer but when you use the usual UNIX way install foo app must install bar library. When you install the latest foo app then you need the new bar lib. You install it too then, but unfortunately upgrading your bar lib make another app have to be removed because of broken dependency.
I hate that.
Using it's own lib make any program can live happily on their own without having to depend on another app's lib. So any program can use what version of lib it want to use.
I'm not really an expert but that's all i know. ^_^
143 • re#139,140,140,141,142 (by hab on 2009-04-11 16:32:27 GMT from Canada)
Sort of like the old drag racers lament about using the latest and greatest parts and technology. Car goes faster but breaks more often!
It is always a trade off between the latest/greatest and reliability! If you want to be staid and conservative use something like debian. Why do you think that so many distros are based on debian? Or you can run something like arch. The presumption being that you then have the ability to fix what breaks.
It is all about choice. Make your own choice(s) for your own reason(s). I tend to choose something for my main box, that is somewhere between the two extremes.
cheers
144 • RE: 143 (by Azzorcist on 2009-04-11 16:44:53 GMT from Indonesia)
Sort of like the old drag racers lament about using the latest and greatest parts and technology. Car goes faster but breaks more often!
It is always a trade off between the latest/greatest and reliability! If you want to be staid and conservative use something like debian. Why do you think that so many distros are based on debian? Or you can run something like arch. The presumption being that you then have the ability to fix what breaks.
It is all about choice. Make your own choice(s) for your own reason(s). I tend to choose something for my main box, that is somewhere between the two extremes.
Can you tell me Linux-based os choice that fit my need? That one that i've said before cutting edge app on solid stable os.
I want it, that's why i ask.
145 • re#144 (by hab on 2009-04-11 17:00:24 GMT from Canada)
With all due respect i do not know what your computer need is. My email address is right there. If you care to email me i would be more than happy to try and assist you.
My philosophy was formed from my reading and the understanding that when a corporation or business computerizes something, the order they normally follow is 1. define the need. 2. look for the software that fulfills the need. 3. select the hardware/software platform that the software runs on.
Now personal computer choices are a bit different but over the years i have found it to be a productive exercise to keep this three step process in mind!
cheers
146 • Linux Application to replace this? (by RollMeAway at 2009-04-11 17:45:36 GMT from United States)
Automatically email designated files or folders at a specified time interval
Tried many Google searches, and failed, to find a Linux replacement for this program.
42 Better Email Enable Everything (BEEE) 2.24
Here is the program description:
http://www.brothersoft.com/42-better-email-enable-everything-(beee)-9727.html
I suppose a good hacker could use bash shell scripts to do this, but I can't.
Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks for reading,
147 • Linux XP "admiring" Windows (by Frisco on 2009-04-11 18:05:39 GMT from United States)
"@ 128 Frisco
I'm not sure that 'admire' is the right word, lol ;)"
Ha ha.. yeah... I was choosing my words carefully. I sure don't want to alienate those who read in here casually using Windows (well being used by Windows I mean).
Oops..
148 • The Linux thing (by Anon on 2009-04-11 21:14:29 GMT from Norway)
#140, sertse, wrote: "So really, only PCLOS was an legit complaint for you."
Well, in a free society all complaints are legitimate :)
On the whole, the Linux scene is a mess. A dedicated dev starts a project. Then something in his personal life prevents him from keeping control and stay on top of problems and thousands of trusting users suffer from lost time, money, sleep etc. Or - a bunch of dedicated devs start a bleedin' edge distro. After some success they grow tired, blasé, arrogant and studiously, but conspicuously, absent whenever problems with their packages occur. To cover up their utter lack of quality control they say they're aiming at 'expert users' or some such.
My recent experiences demonstrate that Linux is a good alternative if you have 3-4-5 of them - either installed or as working backaups.
Merry computing and a happy Easter to y'all! ;)
149 • criteria (by Tom on 2009-04-11 22:01:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 148
The complaints in post 139 are much like a person complaining about getting wet after jumping into a river.
Yes it's a legitimate complaint. However, it would take less time to find and install a new linux (even one that you'd never tried before) than it would take to dry yourself and get into warm, dry clothing.
150 • re#148 (by hab on 2009-04-11 22:28:37 GMT from Canada)
That linux works for a very large number of people is easily verified. If things don't work for you than it is perhaps your experience that is flawed for whatever reason. Bitching and moaning about it aren't going to do anything for you (except annoy others to whom linux is a perfectly acceptable solution)! Get involved! Fix broken/brain damaged stuff if you can. Submit bug reports. Participate!.
Participation in linux is entirely voluntary. If somebody hands you a loaded gun and you shoot yourself in the foot with it then whose fault is that? You do have enough sense to treat any gun that you are handed as being loaded until you establish otherwise don't you?
cheers
151 • No subject (by forest on 2009-04-11 22:52:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anyone fired up the latest Mint KDE?
As usual bunged it on a stick (no messing around with h/d partitioning), Wifi fired up first time...once I'd remembered the ESSID biz, LOL...Screen res straight into 1280/1040 yada yada yada.
A bit more to look at than Flux as you'd expect, but more experimenting on the morrow, had enough computing for today. And so to bed.
152 • @148 (by Nobody Important on 2009-04-12 02:25:13 GMT from United States)
So Debian is going to fall because Steve McIntyre doesn't want to develop it anymore? Ubuntu is slowing down because Mark Shuttleworth is going on vacation? Laughable.
Most big Linux projects have way more than one developer, and more than a few have corporate support. You mistake the the entire Linux ecosystem as the small projects, which yes sometimes do have issues (but this is filled with rather unimportant things). And small projects don't die permanently, thanks to the "open source" concept; nothing is truly dead.
Posting strawmen about Linux' development doesn't help anyone. Again, if you want some distro where stuff doesn't move and just stays in one spot for years and years, use Debian or CentOS.
153 • re 144 : about libs an your system choice. (by glyj on 2009-04-12 09:45:09 GMT from France)
about libs: if you add libs with every program you install, the system is "bloating" very fast. At the beginning, libs were created to spare memory and share the work reusable in other programs. It's a bad idea to do the contrary with adding libs & libs....
about your system choice: The main problem is hardware compatibility. Once you find a distro that is ok about your hardware, use it. The best choice is in the top ten distro : many users, good stability, many apps and bleeding-edge.
My choice is Mandriva but it's ok with these other ones you should try:
-Fedora
-Ubuntu
-Opensuse
regards,
glyj
154 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-04-12 11:43:41 GMT from Norway)
#152, Nobody Important, wrote:
"So Debian is going to fall because Steve McIntyre doesn't want to develop it anymore? Ubuntu is slowing down because Mark Shuttleworth is going on vacation? Laughable."
Possibly, depending on your perspective. Debian can't fall a great deal in overall market share, whereas Ubuntu may make further forays as long as Mr. Shuttleworth keeps throwing money at it. As I see it, there are 4 or maybe 5 'biggish', serious and reasonably dependable Linux distros. That's 2 or 3 too many, IMHO. Even they, not to mention all the others, are marching forward in all directions, nearly literally.
How many package formats, installers, limited repositories et cetera does the world need in order to fire off an e-mail? Don't you think we would be doing better with a little more cooperation and standardization? Well, I do.
Of course, the mess is a natural consequence of open source, which is a standing invitation to (re)invent an even better wheel. Great. How about a Linux 'killer app' for a change?
Freedom is important, but I think (a lot!) more coordination is needed for Linux to make more than just a noticable impact.
155 • Xubuntu (by Tom on 2009-04-12 13:48:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi :)
Does anyone know the name of the file-browser in Xubuntu? I know it's not Nautilus but i'm not sure how to find out what it is without finding someone who's using Xubuntu?
Thanks and regards from
Tom :)
156 • RE: 155 Xubuntu (by ladislav on 2009-04-12 14:37:26 GMT from Taiwan)
Do you mean Thunar?
http://thunar.xfce.org/
157 • Linux reliability and stability (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-04-12 15:02:17 GMT from United States)
#148 - If you stick with the major distributions they either have large corporate backing or a very large developer community. Also, they mostly "just work", contrary to your experience with a different sort of distro. I think, with the major distros, you have less chance of a crash than you have with Windows and the famous "blue screen of death".
Stick with Red Hat/Centos/Fedora, SUSE, Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu, etc... and your experience will be much different.
158 • Thanks Ladislav!! :) (by Tom on 2009-04-12 15:36:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 156 Ladislav
Great, thanks :))
Number of Comments: 158
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