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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Awesome! (by Novus on 2009-02-09 09:35:43 GMT from United States)
Thanks for another DWW! Woof seems interesting and so is Ojuba. Oh, and I'm first! Whoo!
2 • Disabling Ctrl-Alt-Bspace (by Zoltan on 2009-02-09 10:00:08 GMT from Hungary)
Well, I have never tought that will happen, but this is a well needed function. If you kill this function, you will lost as in windows - where you could only reset the whole system, because of the task manager mostly leaves in trouble. Well, I know, there are many accidents where unnecessary resets are happened, but I say - THIS is nonsense. When something not working, or isn't at the right place - must be disabled or change to the default.? I think - no. Well, the first option - i say - really a step backward. The second is could be a solution, for example - using of the (mostly unused) 'super' key (eg. windows key) instead of the 'alt'. But the ZAP combination is a bit mad idea. I'm afraid this will like in windows... I hit an keystroke, and a coming up an attention window, after that are sure questions, hit 6 times ctrl-alt-del, what keeps more frozen or locked, then BSOD...and so on... Please, people - KISS principle is well enough, mustn't be reinvent the wheel. By the way, knows somebody what are the common keystrokes between linuxes?
3 • Ctrl-Alt-Bspace (by Tom on 2009-02-09 10:10:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
Um Zoltan you can still switch to console one with ctrl,alt,f1 etc no?
4 • Woof, PocketPC, Moblin (by elimisteve at 2009-02-09 10:45:40 GMT from United States)
Woof sounds interesting. I'd love to hear more. From what kinds of sources can Woof create packages?
PocketPC would certainly be convenient for those who like to run *buntu from a flash drive. Hopefully they don't run into trademark issues. :-)
I'm curious to see what Moblin can offer that other 9"-screen supporting light-weight distros cannot.
5 • Ctrl-Alt-Backspace (by William at 2009-02-09 10:47:01 GMT from China)
I'd wish the Xorg developers put up a poll somewhere and let USERS decide what to do with this feature. I never for once typed this combo by mistake, and now I will have to manually enable this feature.
KDE4, Xorg hotplugging...enough decisions have been taken too rashly in the Linux world, but this new decision isn't getting any better. I'm not saying that disabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is so much a change but changes like this can sometimes bring the whole system down. Developers need to understand a bit better that people's worksrely on their software, and it will be cruel to ask them to switch (to Win) for only one piece of software (the DE, Xorg, or whatever.)
6 • SlackFind (by Pig_Pen on 2009-02-09 11:02:41 GMT from United States)
i wonder about the repositories it searches through, and the packages it presents to the user, are the packages built on clean Slackware systems? any package that is built on a modified Slackware system will have problems on an un-modified Slackware system (missing dependencies, differing library versions & etc)
if there is anything not included in a stock Slackware i roll my own packages from source the old fashioned way (sure it takes a little time & effort but at least i know it is going to work and work good!)
7 • PocketPC (by stan on 2009-02-09 11:08:04 GMT from Australia)
The idea of PocketPC is great however why mess around ordering, PAYING, waiting 6 weeks if you live outside of Europe, when if you really just want to get the thing out there just have a download link we can put it on our own usb drive.
Hope I don't sound bad mannered but I just don't get it and why we paying for something that is free? I know you reckon it's just for the flash drive but everyone has spare flash drives lying around why order, wait and spend money when you could simply download it ?
8 • Y2K nostalgia (by greenpossum on 2009-02-09 11:20:10 GMT from Australia)
Wow, thanks for the blast from the past; I remember those distros. What will Linux be like in 9 years' time I wonder.
9 • SlackFind (by Niki Kovacs on 2009-02-09 11:56:04 GMT from France)
I doubt Slackers will use this tool very much. I they felt inclined to do so, they'd already use Debian. Slackware strongly adheres to the KISS principle, and in that case, this would be: 1) install your base Slackware system, and 2) hunt down build scripts from slackbuilds.org and build what you need from there.
Cheers from a long-time Slackware user (7.1 -> 12.0)
10 • ctl/alt/bkspc (by J.B. on 2009-02-09 11:59:36 GMT from United States)
Post 5: "I'd wish the Xorg developers put up a poll somewhere and let USERS decide what to do with this feature."
That's the notion I had when I first left Windows (95) and started looking at linux distributions; I really did think it had something to do with ongoing, active, dynamic user input wrt to decisions affecting the development of the distro.
Beyond pre-releases, alphas, betas and RCs, I am not so sure there is much going on at the level of polls or user input. The input we do see, via feedback on those development releases, is valuable, of course. The input at the user forums as well. Those things speak well to the open source nature of linux.
But a big issue such as disabling a feature in a pan-distro utility really does need mass input from users, in my opinion. Or at least an assurance that the feature can be toggled.
11 • moblin (by techqc on 2009-02-09 12:27:30 GMT from Indonesia)
Outstanding piece on the moblin distro,
a minor herd of us are hoping to get our hands on the g3-equipped
versions of mids that can run this - it will make iPhone look like
something you get for your pre-schoolers.
(Oh wait - I didn't mean it like that - I would never subject a child to ___!)
Aigo P8888x is just now beginning to glimmer,
but I suspect its battery life may not be enough to handle
real usage - but there will be others.
(Big touch-screen fits in your pocket with 3g/real_keyboard and runs linux)
The kicker will be getting the 3g drivers and touchscreen sorted out.
Still trying to get the bugs out though,
although with a tiny MID it will be a challenge
12 • ctrl+alt+backspace/KDE4.2 (by AmblestonDack on 2009-02-09 12:31:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
How on earth can you do this by mistake? I have been a Linux user for almost 5 years and the only time I have ventured near this key combo is to reset xorg after installing compiz or some such thing. I agree with previous posters, they should put up a user poll and see how many would like the feature disabled or left as it is.
On a separate note, I have to say a big well done to the KDE4.2 dev team. For the most part of my Linux usage I have used Gnome and shied away from KDE (although my favourite KDE distro at the moment is Pardus 2008.1), I have to say that over the weekend I fired up my test PC and installed Arch and KDE4.2 and I spent 2 very pleasant days working with it.
13 • @ 12 (by Juarez on 2009-02-09 13:59:40 GMT from United States)
I agree 100%. Next, they will probably implement Ubuntu's all purpose root killer - sudo.
14 • ctrl+alt+backspace (by bhuvi on 2009-02-09 14:01:05 GMT from India)
i thought this combination was temporarily disabled due to some problems,as i saw it first disabled in ubuntu 9.04 alphas,but i didn't know this was done in Xorg.This key combo helped me a lot of times.No one on this earth would accidentally trigger it
15 • Slackfind (by Greg on 2009-02-09 14:09:22 GMT from Greece)
Slackfind is a nice idea but is bound to fail. That is for reasons known to the Slackware , and Linux community in general for ages. You should always stick to the PMS provided by the distribution you use. If you have to install something not avilable, make your own packages using build scripts. Never ever use packages that come without the build scripts. And that is one of the biggest critisism towards linuxpackages.net. They are bound to break your system sooner or later. Slacky.eu is very different.
16 • Disabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace in Fedora (by Raphael F. on 2009-02-09 14:17:50 GMT from Switzerland)
I seriously hope that this is a joke – in Fedora I had to use this key combination most frequently (compared with the other distros)!
17 • No subject (by Heni on 2009-02-09 14:48:03 GMT from Sweden)
Agree with 2, 3, 5, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16. Why on earth are they disabling ctrl-alt-backspace?
18 • No subject (by Sertse on 2009-02-09 14:51:43 GMT from Australia)
Fedora doesn't like to change whatever done in Upstream... its their official policy for packages I think, so Fedora can't really do anything about it.
Agree with 12: Never liked KDE much, but Pardus' version of it I can like! (And everyone should try Pardus sometime, it's a great distro)
Anyway, anyone know if DesktopBSD is alive? I like the fact it's FreeBSD + KDE + GUI Tools for ports. The idea of PBIs in PC-BSD seems very inelegant to me...
19 • Linux Mint 6.0 64 bit (by William on 2009-02-09 14:58:46 GMT from United States)
Let me commend Mint linux for an excellent 64 bit distro. Several other 64 bit
distros were a no go ,all because of my ATi HD 3200 graphics. Mint had no
problems at all.
I think the fact that Mint comes with multimedia codecs already installed
and has root log-in enabled shows this distro has real GONADS.
20 • Remembering 2000 (by Fernando Gracia on 2009-02-09 15:21:38 GMT from United States)
I still remember how Caldera got me into the Linux arena, just 9 years ago. I used Caldera for about 3 years then I swithched to the beautiful Red Hat 8 and Mandrake 7.1. Today I lost track of how many distros I used. Last night I was playing with Dreamlinux, that is now into the top Distrowatch rank. Thanks to those already gone distros!!!
21 • slackfind.net (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-09 15:30:49 GMT from United States)
This is an excellent feature. If you want to build your own packages, that's fine, you don't need to use slackfind.net. Some users do want to download binaries, and in my experience, slacky.eu offers some of the highest quality packages in the Linux world. The same goes for rlworkman.net.
Note that (a) you can use the service to find build scripts and then build the packages yourself, and (b) it is not a package manager - it tells you where to find the packages/build scripts.
This is something I've wished were available for a long time.
22 • Mint 64 bit (by Tony on 2009-02-09 16:12:44 GMT from United States)
With 64 bit systems becoming more common these days it is good to see that Mint developed a 64-bit version. I tested RC1 and it seemed good and Mint is very solid Distro. I look forward when time allows to install the final 64-bit Mint release.
I'm looking forward to a XFCE Mint 6 version for an older computer that I own that continues to run no matter how badly it is mistreated.
23 • KDE 4.2 on BSD is nice... (by Rob on 2009-02-09 16:16:33 GMT from United States)
...but I wish the BSD distros would put some effort into getting a VM environment (i.e. VirtualBox) natively hosted under BSD. Until then, BSD is useless to me.
24 • iMagic (by Bobby Hunter on 2009-02-09 16:25:18 GMT from United States)
So, iMagic is kubuntu with new icons. Why bother?
25 • RE: I use it too much to lose it. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-02-09 16:40:32 GMT from United States)
I agree with everyone that we should keep the hotkey feature for restarting x. @13: As much as I would like to give Ubuntu credit for the excellent use of sudo they did not develop it. That was developed in 1980 and put under a bsd like license. It has been around for a few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudo
26 • DesktopBSD (by relativ6 at 2009-02-09 17:01:11 GMT from United States)
Desktop BSD is alive and well, Sertse. There should be a new version based on FreeBSD 7.1 out soon. http://desktopbsd.net/forums/
You don't hear much from this distro because they focus on a FreeBSD OS that just works and is completely binary compatible with FreebSD. They don't bother with hype or fancy new features... it's simply the easiest way to get FreeBSD running on your desktop with a nice KDE interface... the rest is up to you.
PCBSD is interesting, but I think the PBI situation is a MAJOR security problem... I tried it and when I needed application X, I googled around and found some unofficial PBI's that could have had any old code in them, but since they make it so easy (and encourage people to just double-click and install PBIs) I think bad code could easily get into peoples machines. Indeed, PCBSD's own PBI site (pbidir.com) says that they are not officially supported by PCBSD???? WTF??
Anyway, while I wait for DesktopBSD to get native flash and a few other goodies, I'm staying busy using Sidux... it's all that. www.sidux.com
rel.
27 • "Ctrl+Alt+Backspace" and waxing nostalgic (by Eyes-Only on 2009-02-09 17:01:12 GMT from United States)
I agree with the rest here: There's no need in disabling the "Ctrl+Alt+Backspace" that so many of us use to get out of a frozen desktop/frozen Xorg. So what's left? "Ctrl+Alt+Del"? as a choice? And if that doesn't work then an all-out cold-reboot? Man I hate those - as I'm sure the rest of you do as well! If you depend upon your system as much as I do you always come back wondering, "What did I lose?" regardless of whether or not your file system is journalled, etc.
Why can't some things just be left well-enough alone? -groan-
On a cheerier note: I sure did enjoy that reposting of the "Linux Format" article by TuxRadar! I first tried Linux around near "that time frame" with Mandrake-7.2. Problem was that like many others I had one of those "mainly winmodems/winsoundcards..." and you know the story only too well, right? ;) It looked beautiful on my computer compared to what I had at the time but essentially I could do nothing with it. I had paid $40 for the disks.
At the same time I had paid $40 for BeOS R5 - and many here know where THAT wonderful system went! It went under about a week after I installed it to my hard drive. I didn't care as I ran that for about a year, maybe two, and enjoyed it immensely!
Four years ago this month I tried Linux again. The changes had been so vast, so different - everything worked for me! I immediately stopped the project I was working upon, wiped the drive, and have never looked back. Distros I use on a daily basis? Vector/Wolvix the most followed by Parsix or "something Debian" in nature on the test drive, and an occasional walk with Puppy.
Linux HAS come a long way thanks to the wonderful people like all of YOU. Yes, YOU - as all of you have contributed in one way or another.
Thanks for the time and bandwidth.
Eyes-Only/"L'Peau-Rouge"
28 • No subject (by gord-s on 2009-02-09 17:04:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
In 15 years of linux, maybe 10-16 hours each day, I haven't ONCE hit ctrl-alt-backspace by accident - although I admit I didn't run X in the early days.
I fail to see why we have to move the handbrake, gearshift, horn every few years just to be "different". Maybe it was a commercially-led decision, who knows?
It's oddities and whims like this that prevents me from taking some "projects" seriously :(
Icons? Grrrrr....dont get me started....
29 • No subject (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-09 17:44:35 GMT from United States)
Have to agree about C-A-Backspace. If that is a concern, there's a little thing known as a dialog box: "Are you sure you want to restart the X server?" When I hit the power button on my laptop it doesn't automatically shut down. It asks what I want to do.
I will echo the comments: how the heck do you accidentally do a C-A-Backspace?
30 • CTRL ALT Backspace (by Moose on 2009-02-09 17:46:04 GMT from Canada)
I can see that having CTRL ALT Backspace suddenly resetting X without warning could be a problem. I like the Suse idea of making the user hit it twice, maybe with a warning. After all, I like using CTRL ALT ESC to kill one window and it would suck if I hit the wrong key combination by mistake.
31 • Contrary to popular belief... (by Scott Dowdle on 2009-02-09 18:10:35 GMT from United States)
I wasn't fond of the Mobiln reviewer's negative comments about rpm/yum. I thought they were uncalled for.
32 • early Linux (by JimK on 2009-02-09 18:26:54 GMT from United States)
I enjoyed the look back to 2000. I still have the installation CDs for my first Linux -- it was Red Hat 5.2. I bought it at Walmart for about 10 or 20 dollars. I think the default desktop was TWM or something else with zero decorations. I remember installing it and seeing a blank screen and wondering, "So what do I do now?" I finally figured out how to get a terminal and type in a command. An experimental version of Gnome was also included, but I didn't have any idea what that was at the time. I believe it also included WordPerfect 7, and I think Netscape was the browser. I even bought a USRobotics external modem because the internal winmodem didn't work.
33 • Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc (by László on 2009-02-09 20:07:59 GMT from Hungary)
Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc
The probability of hitting these three keys simultaneously by mistake is extremely low. To try to type a tab by hitting the tab key is rather high. But, when it produces a keyword completion, it can be extremely waxing! Now, which of the two should really be changed?
László
34 • Ctrl+Alt+Backspace (by Desmond Cox on 2009-02-09 20:23:14 GMT from Canada)
Wow, you all make me feel like an ass.
I guess I'm the only person in the history of X.Org to accidentally hit Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. Granted, it only happened once (I quickly learned my lesson) and it was some time ago. I think I was trying to use a gedit key combination (Ctrl+Alt+PgUp/PgDn), but the Backspace and PgUp/PgDn keys on my laptop were conveniently placed right beside each other.
I'm also going to make a controversial statement and agree with the decision to "change" Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. While I don't agree that it should be removed entirely, I like the idea of hitting it twice, and that it should probably be disabled by default (easily enabled by DoZap "True" or some such in xorg.conf). Why?
I've noticed some users are using Ctrl+Alt+Backspace as their "normal" means of "logging out". I imagine this can't be good for data integrity, etc.
If X freezes, I always attempt to view logs/use top in a console (Ctrl+Alt+F#) rather than say "screw everything--kill it!" Chances are X isn't to blame.
...but I guess that's just me.
35 • @Desmond (by J.B. on 2009-02-09 21:40:34 GMT from United States)
#34 - have you noticed a lot of "data integrity" problems being posted on the various linux user forums?
I'll look around because I'm curious as to if there any and if they have been resolved or at least traced to users invoking control/alt/backspace.
*rolls eyes* (signal 9 body language) :O)
36 • at 29 by Joe Biden (by Fractalguy on 2009-02-09 21:51:42 GMT from United States)
I use C-A-Backspace when things are locking up as when ram and swap are full (yes, I'm on an older laptop) or a script is gone walkabout in Firefox. X restarts occur every other week or so. The pop confirmations are not a solution here as they either never come up or take nearly forever, they only contribute to the problem. We need a good exit without reboot. Frankly, being reduced to reboot is as bad as being pushed back to Windows.
BTW, I'm running fully patch sidux and it runs well on this old IBM A30 (384 MB RAM). I often even have 18-24 windows up. Win-7 starter would never work for me unless it just ran a Linux VM. LOL
37 • When is a release announcement defined as short? (by anticapitalista on 2009-02-09 22:28:18 GMT from Greece)
For MEPIS distrowatch writes ... 'Here is the short release announcement..'
For Jibbed distrowatch writes ... 'Visit the project's home page to read the release announcement'
For PCLOS distrowatch writes ... 'Here is the full release announcement.'
Spot the difference.
38 • Ctrl+Alt+Backspace: everything worked too well? (by Arthuro on 2009-02-09 22:28:52 GMT from Canada)
It's really funny... actually not funny at all, that when everything goes right, somebody has to come come up with a new feature that's really downright stupid.
39 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-02-09 22:29:11 GMT from Canada)
It has already been mentioned that Ctrl + Alt + F1 will still be available. Ctrl + Alt + F1 returns the machine to console login. Then login, kill the offending application and restart the X server. Now stop whining.
40 • re 37 (by Anonymous on 2009-02-09 22:38:39 GMT from Canada)
They all occupy roughly the same amount of space on the front page. What's your point? Are you bored? Is Mepis coming along too slowly? Warren said that he'll wait for Debian to release Lenny in order to release Mepis. I wish him luck. Debian guys said that Lenny will be released this week. Yeah right! You betcha. They fooled me a couple of times already. I'm not falling for the same trick anymore.
41 • #40 Read carefully what I wrote. (by anticapitalista on 2009-02-09 22:46:35 GMT from Greece)
Read carefully what I wrote.
MEPIS is said to have a short release announcement, but as you notice all 3 distros I mention have 'roughly the same amount of space on the front page.'
Why is MEPIS's announcement 'short' and the others 'read the announcement' and 'full'?
That is my point.
42 • #41 To clarify (by anticapitalista on 2009-02-09 22:50:24 GMT from Greece)
Go to the MEPIS, Jibbed and PCLOS announcements and tell me if there is any real content difference in their announcements?
43 • Short release announcement?? (by Wondering on 2009-02-09 23:06:16 GMT from Australia)
#37
""For MEPIS distrowatch writes ... 'Here is the short release announcement..'
For Jibbed distrowatch writes ... 'Visit the project's home page to read the release announcement'
For PCLOS distrowatch writes ... 'Here is the full release announcement.'""
What is your point??
44 • RE:37, 42 (by ladislav on 2009-02-09 23:12:17 GMT from Taiwan)
Just for your, anticapitalista, I changed the announcements. So now SimplyMEPIS reads "full release announcement", Jibbed "brief release announcement" and PCLinuxOS just "release announcement".
Now, can we get back to a more interesting discussion?
45 • Release announcement. (by anticapitalista on 2009-02-09 23:49:00 GMT from Greece)
#44 ladislav, thanks for the change in your MEPIS announcement. There was no need to change the others.
Look, the reason I posted was because this is not the first time that MEPIS announcements have been described differently/negatively to other distros with similar sized and in detail announcements.
I just ask you to be consistent. If you think the announcements are 'short' (and I would agree that MEPIS announcements are short), then just simply apply the same standard to other distros.
That is my point.
46 • Linuxconf (by Buster on 2009-02-09 23:49:17 GMT from Canada)
Seeing that picture of Linuxconf 1.16 brought back a flood of happy memories. Exciting times. Every install was filled with drama and surprises. Distros are better now for sure, but that time had the magic of childhood. Old timers who don't read the article should simply look at the pictures.And you have no heart if you don't break into a smile.
47 • #31 - I have to agree with you, Moblin review, response to #4 (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-02-09 23:51:20 GMT from United States)
First, Chris and Ladislav, thanks for another interesting and informative DWW. I read the review of Moblin with interest since I had just downloaded the alpha. I haven't installed it yet but I do have a partition ready and waiting.
#31, Scott Dowdle, is someone I have to agree with. I certainly wouldn't gnash my teeth because rpm is used. As I mentioned a week or two ago I've built packages for rpm, for Debian style packages, and for both standard and modified Slackware formats. rpm is no more complex and no less powerful than Debian's system. Most of the issues with rpm were sorted out years and years ago. Generally when there is a problem it's poor packaging or poor repo maintenance, not the fault of the packaging system. These things happen just as frequently with the Debian (dpkg) packaging system as it does with rpm. I also have no problem whatsoever with yum and I don't find it to be slow.
One thing I did note in the review was the lack of support for some ralink wireless devices. This surprised me since a lot of the Intel Atom based netbooks use ralink for wireless, my Sylvania g Netbook Meso included. If ralink support is left out of the kernel it looks like I'll have to add it back in -- not a problem for an experienced user but definitely not user or newcomer friendly. In any case I'll try the alpha and see how it works for me.
#4: Elimisteve: I think the review covered what the advantage of Moblin over a distro like Xubuntu 8.10 or Vector Linux 6.0 is supposed to be. (I picked on those two because they both tout themselves as lightweight, both are Xfce based like Moblin, and both support 8.9" displays properly out of the box.) Moblin is supposed to be optimized for Atom and Core Duo processors so, in theory, it should take advantage of those architectures and get the maximum performace out of the supported systems. The stripped down kernel also allows for faster booting. Will it work as advertised? I'm going to find out. My system as Ubuntu Netbook Remix (8.04LTS) and Vector Linux 6.0 rc4.3 on it now so doing a comparison should be pretty easy.
48 • Ctrl-Alt-Backspace & LiveCD's (by Woodstock69 on 2009-02-10 00:00:15 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Have to agree on the C-A-BSPC issue. The default operation in any Linux OS has been to reset XOrg. Linux is about choice. So don't change the default operation, give the user choice. A simple option of on or off. I do like the OpenSuSE method of double tap, but again, why not an option to set it to whatever I want it to be on MY linux box?
Just tried TinyMe, love the distro. Nice and Fast. I now have a dozen or so LiveCD iso's and want to know if anyone has been able to get them to work on a USB stick in a simple way such that it is possible to dump say 5 iso images onto a USB stick and then use GRUB or similar to boot them (no it's not easy, I've read the how-to's and it still doesn't work).
I've read plenty of articles but none can do it in such a simple way that an idiot like me can follow it. Heck, I cant even work out how to install GRUB onto a USB Stick (no it's not easy, the how-to's just don't work). Nearly all the How-To's are syslinux or isolinux based. That's not what I want. I want GRUB.
Thanks Ladislav and Chris for another great dose of DWW.
49 • @48 USB Stick (by Fractalguy on 2009-02-10 00:55:02 GMT from United States)
I have also tried several experiments following as many articles without success. I tried booting on my ASUS 701 and both IBM ThinkPads (A30, T42). It always seems like a step is missing or the ubiquitous "now just simply...". Also many articles seem aimed at Windows based systems. I have strictly Linux, so often the process needs a little translation in the creation. A good article here might be useful.
As a Windows free zone here, it should assume Linux only, at least in one description. A friend has found in his experiments on an ASUS that the resulting thumb will only boot on the same machine as created on. That fails the "walking around" use on such a thumb drive. I create using my A30 with a goal to all my IBMs and two ASUS 701s. As near as I can tell in my case, the boot sector in not getting written on the Kingston 4G Datatraveler. I'd also like to get a working Transcend 8G SDHC.
50 • Just thought you'd like to know (by Woodstock69 on 2009-02-10 01:15:43 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Having just read Barry Kauler's blog on speed issues re Woof, I tried his speed script and found that whilst using Linux Mint 5 KDE CE on a HP Compaq nx6320 with 2.5GB of RAM, the result was 35 seconds. When I entered the suggested speed fix (export LANG=C) the result was 15 seconds.
What does it mean? No Idea. Maybe if I knew I could install GRUB to a USB Stick =};^)
51 • USB sticks (by Esldude on 2009-02-10 02:04:57 GMT from United States)
I have found Puppy on a USB stick to work with most machines I have tried it on other than some very new desktops that need a newer kernal. Another one that is quite simple to setup on USB sticks and usually works is NimbleX. I also however have had many others not work when used as advertised much too often.
52 • ctl+alt+backspace (by Scott on 2009-02-10 03:16:22 GMT from United States)
This has caused quite a bit of discussion on various Fedora lists and forums. It is an upstream, e.g., Xorg decision, for whatever reason.
The Fedora release notes for the alpha release give detailed instructions on how to disable it.
Oops, I take it back. I added the section but apparently someone felt I gave too much information and removed it. There are still instructions, but they're no longer detailed, nor do they bother mentioning that the xorg.conf that you should edit is not there by default.
53 • Re: Xorg restart function (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace) disabled (by Easy remedy on 2009-02-10 03:55:23 GMT from Australia)
X Server
The key combination Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill the X server has been disabled by default. To get this behaviour back, add the the line
Option "DontZap" "false"
to the ServerFlags section in xorg.conf.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes
------------
Why all the whinging/whining?
54 • RE: 53 Re: Xorg restart function (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace) disabled (by ladislav on 2009-02-10 04:11:26 GMT from Taiwan)
The "easy remedy" becomes a lot less easy once you learn that by default there is no xorg.conf in Fedora 11 either.
55 • xorg (by Scott on 2009-02-10 04:34:26 GMT from United States)
Yup, but there's no xorg.conf by default.
The other reason, I would imagine, for whining, is that it's not wanted by many, probably most, users.
@ladislav, yes, that's what I meant by detailed instructions. I pointed that out on the testing list and it was suggested that I add it to the wiki which I did. (That is, mention there was no xorg, explain how to create a rudimentary one, and, as that xorg had no ServerFlag section, I also added what the user should put in there.)
However, as mentioned above, for whatever reason, someone removed it.
56 • xorg (by JimK on 2009-02-10 04:46:21 GMT from United States)
So if removing Control-Alt-backspace is an X-Org decision, why is everybody complaining to Fedora rather than to X-Org? Has Xorg not given an explanation for why they're doing it? I agree it's a useful feature that gets used intentionally a helluva lot more than it gets triggered by accident. Would it do any good to find an X-Org dev list and make our opinions known?
57 • Give me YOUR input, HA ! (by RollMeAway on 2009-02-10 06:03:21 GMT from United States)
Maybe the Xorg devs can throw in some code to turn the screen blue when X locks up? Not a damn thing we can do to stop them.
I recall how upset I got when the kernel gods decided every drive looked like scsii and they would only use sdx for all drives. Screwed up many multi-distro systems I had with over 16 partitions. Grub still hasn't coped with the change.
They don't care. The masses will follow. We have no choice.
There is no competition for the kernel nor Xorg.
We must live with their whims.
58 • Linux install on USB Flash (by RollMeAway on 2009-02-10 06:18:42 GMT from United States)
Install easypeasy.
http://www.geteasypeasy.com/
It installs to a single ext2 partition and has GRUB.
The first legitimate use I've seen for UUID.
It boots on any computer I have tried.
Learn from their approach.
59 • xorg quality (by celle on 2009-02-10 06:52:34 GMT from United States)
I've been noticing xorg falling off ever since they started depending on hal. With hal and dbus on just opening a few terminals and using make fetch(freebsd) would generate zombie processes. This started a couple of years ago when I started to download the entire distfiles tree using make fetch in ports. Zombies would show after 4 terminals after about an 4 hours of concurrent fetching. Get rid of hal, 6 terminals and about 12 hours then zombies. Lose dbus and then no zombies regardless of terminal number and time used. More recent issues, Freebsd is currently having a hissy fit with xorg 7.4 right now. Want to know what is going on, read the mailing lists and forums. Xorg is good but sometimes I think the linux slip-shot programming/decision style has penetrated too much. (slip-shot is the closest word I could come up with, my apologies to those who are offended since I do know many are good at what they do)
60 • Re: 57 • Give me YOUR input, HA ! (by Ariszló on 2009-02-10 07:26:14 GMT from Hungary)
"There is no competition for the kernel nor Xorg."
One could use XFree86 4.8.0, released in last December, but unfortunately no distribution ships it.
61 • Distrowatch Awstats (by eagleton on 2009-02-10 08:26:50 GMT from Germany)
How did Linux Mint and lots of other distros disappear from the Awstats page? An Awstats update? It seems like they are all featured under "Unknown or unspecified distribution" now.
http://distrowatch.com/awstats/awstats.DistroWatch.com.osdetail.html
62 • RE: 61 Distrowatch Awstats (by ladislav on 2009-02-10 08:29:35 GMT from Taiwan)
It's my fault, sorry about that. There was a security update to Awstats which I applied without thinking too much and it overwrote my changes. I'll fix it one of these days...
63 • Distrowatch Awstats (by eagleton on 2009-02-10 09:01:56 GMT from Germany)
Thanks in advance, as it has been one of the better ways to measure distro popularity, apart from those distros that don't have their name in the browser strings. :)
64 • xorg (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-10 11:45:33 GMT from United States)
I agree with the comments about xorg. Hardware detection doesn't work properly every time. Editing xorg.conf was bad enough to begin with; now they want to get rid of it completely.
It's amazing how many times I've found posts about xorg hardware detection problems that are answered, "The new xorg is a lot better." Well, only if it works. At least put out some blasted documentation to let us know how to fix the problems if they do arise. This is going to cost Linux many users, and for good reason. A single hardware detection issue will drive most back to Windows.
65 • /etc/X11/xorg.conf (by J.B. on 2009-02-10 13:59:40 GMT from United States)
One of my best discoveries in linux was finding out after a bit of googling on a working machine that I could use vi to go into xorg.conf on a new, struggling installation, and cause my previously undetected or misconfigured display to work with the proper entries.
Ah the joys of seeing startx work after my tweaking!
Dang folks, don't tell me we're looking at the future of linux as being more Windows-like in the installation stages, too: less ability to get under the hood.
66 • Debian Watch (by John Grub on 2009-02-10 15:11:44 GMT from United States)
Debian 4.0 R7 has been released.
67 • @59 (by john frey on 2009-02-10 15:18:42 GMT from Canada)
"I think the linux slip-shot programming/decision style"
This is totally off topic but it's driving me nuts. The term is slip - shod. That would mean someone wearing shoes too big for them or as a horse with shoes that were not nailed tightly to it's hooves. In the case of the horse that means that dirt and stones get between the shoe and the hoof potentially laming the horse and certainly making it difficult to walk.
The term means work that is poorly done, incomplete and sloppy. I think you used the term properly just misspelled:) You might have meant hip-shot which means either standing with the hip jutting out to one side or "firing from the hip." In the latter case that would imply doing something quickly without proper care and attention as in shooting a gun from hip level instead of taking a proper stance and aiming.
OK, sorry for the interruption.
68 • xorg stupidities (by ChewBacca on 2009-02-10 16:24:47 GMT from United States)
looks like it is time to go back to using XFree86 :-D
69 • The reason for Ctrl-Alt-BS (by Miq on 2009-02-10 17:52:24 GMT from Sweden)
Wow, so much whining and so little fact checking. I have never accidentally hit the combination, and neither has any poster here apparently, which doesn't mean that this is a spur-of-the-moment decision by XOrg (which for some reason recently has become a popular target for derision).
You know the expression "real hackers use EMACS"? (I don't, but the hardcore Linux developer cadre often does) Well, in EMACS Ctrl-Meta-BS is the key combination to delete the S-structure ("{ ... }") to the left of the cursor, which od course causes EMACS programmers (f.i. kernel and XOrg developers) to involuntarily shut down X and lose data...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-February/msg00243.html
I am not really happy about this change, but as long as EMACS is a central tool for Linux development, this probably is a necessary change. And the two-hit solution is a good compromise (even if I'd be happier with people exchanging EMACS for something less masochistic).
70 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-02-10 18:24:35 GMT from United States)
Regarding Development Release: SimplyMEPIS 8.0 RC3, let me just say that I have been following from Beta 1 to the current release candidate. I noticed one or two changes that would probably trip up the total newbie, but for the most part, the software has been excellent and the stability has been excellent as well. The first few beta releases had issues with either missing or malfunctioning hardware support. By Beta 4, nearly all of those issues were sorted out. There was an NTFS-3G issue that was also resolved, and there were a number of minor issues that may have been caused by changes in the Lenny repository, one reason that Warren is being conservative and waiting for the official Lenny release. From my perspective, this has been an outstanding example of how useful test software can be. I frequently use SimplyMEPIS 8.0 in test form as my desktop system. I'm more than content to wait for the final release because the quality of the effort so strongly stands out, and in my opinion, even outdoes some of the other very good distributions. When SimplyMEPIS 8.0 becomes final, it is almost certain to be the most stable simple desktop system of 2009, thanks to great work on Debian Lenny and also because of the great attention to detail by Warren Woodford and an excellent community of MEPIS Lovers.
71 • Regarding Development Release: SimplyMEPIS 8.0 RC3 (by Brian Masinick on 2009-02-10 18:27:12 GMT from United States)
My apologies, I did not intend to post anonymously to #70. I am proud of what the MEPIS Lovers community has done with SimplyMEPIS and I can wait for the end result because I am so sure that it will be excellent.
72 • #68 xorg stupidities (by dcanter on 2009-02-11 00:13:24 GMT from United States)
"looks like it is time to go back to using XFree86 :-D"
You mean run a really old version of linux or switch to a BSD?
73 • Open Source study conducted by Heise Open (by Observer on 2009-02-11 00:49:56 GMT from Australia)
Open Source study conducted by Heise Open
The German open source portal Heise Open conducted a survey on the use of open source software in German businesses. 1,312 companies participated: 30% were from companies with less than ten employees, 51% were small and medium-sized business and 19% had more than 500 employees.
Trend Study Open Source
Desktop Operating Systems
Distibution Einsatzgrad Use degree
Ubuntu 60.8
Debian 29.9
OpenSUSE 28.8
SLED 8.8
Fedora 8.2
RHEL 5.7
CentOS 3.5
http://tinyurl.com/bwspkw [leads to a Google translation of original German source]
74 • RE: 72 #68 xorg stupidities (by ladislav on 2009-02-11 00:52:50 GMT from Taiwan)
None of the BSDs uses XFree86 any more. As far as I know, the only distribution that still provides XFree86 in their repositories is Source Mage:
http://distrowatch.com/sourcemage
75 • Re: 69 by Miq (by William at 2009-02-11 02:54:21 GMT from China)
This is exactly the problem! The old identity of the devs as hackers is changing with the popularity Linux is now gaining. This happened with KDE when the devs thought they were merely playing with themselves and anyone not a dev should shut up. This is still happening with the development of Xorg.
My point is that the devs are better equipped (with Emacs or whatever) to edit that non-existent Xorg.conf to 'disable' this undesirable feature, and we should let the rest of the world enjoy their desktop without tweaking too much! Now the situation is like: the ones able to hack are unwilling to make the extra editing of the confs (so they changed the default) and those less endowed with the command line are left wondering what happened to their out-of-the-box Linux experience. Shouldn't this be done the other way around?
And I agree, that there is no real competition for the kernel or Xorg, unless, of course, one goes back to Windows.
76 • re: 72 + 54 (by Some Guy On the Internets on 2009-02-11 04:39:32 GMT from United States)
You mean run a really old version of linux or switch to a BSD?
(S)he means downloading the latest 4.8 release of Xfree86 and forgetting the broken promises of X.org.
The "easy remedy" becomes a lot less easy once you learn that by default there is no xorg.conf in Fedora 11 either.
Considering the fact that the bulk of Linux Desktop users will soon be creating their own xorg.confs (the only way the fglrx and nvidia modules will be recognized by the X server) it is not that big of a deal from their viewpoint. They don't care about what you want to do because it is "easy" to create one.
If that upsets you, let them know about it, the xorg mailing lists are public. http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgMailingLists xorg-devel could use some polite user input. If developers have a problem with it, well maybe they shouldn't make boneheaded decisions like removing keybindings that everyone uses or giving us panning and calling it a new feature even though the feature was in Xfree86 4.3.
77 • Emacs and Xorg 3-key-reset (by Gord-s on 2009-02-11 05:48:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for the enlightenment on the Emacs/Xorg thing. Now, time for a little humor, a little stronger than usual :-
"Maybe the Emacs startup could be modified to detect the length of the beard and adjust the Xorg keybindings accordingly?"
"Emacs user dont need a key to reset Xorg, they have a Meta combination for that, it's..."
"Real people don't run X anyways"
"We were here first"
"they run X on linux too?"
"Xorg is evil since they went down the Micro$oft route"
"what's eMacs? I thought Ubuntu was Linux?"
"Even RSM did it, once, in 1984"
"Ctrl-Alt-Backspace crashes Vista too, but you have to do it 2 or 3 times because the interupts get missed"
:)
Gord (checking out Emacs GTK as I speak ^.^ )
78 • BT4 (by M1k on 2009-02-11 11:11:16 GMT from Italy)
BT4 based on Ubuntu?
A big step back,dear friends....
79 • RE:78, Incorrect dear friend. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-02-11 12:47:26 GMT from United States)
"Now based on Debian core packages and using the Ubuntu software repositories", in the middle of the release announcement. A step back???
80 • No subject (by stan on 2009-02-11 14:59:44 GMT from Australia)
Look guys who cares about Ctrl, Alt Backspace?? People complain about Windows and Microsoft but hey most people use it because it lets people just get on with doing what they need to be doing with a PC ( I know they don't know better) but for goodness sake just lets get a operating system from Linux that is just that a operating system you don't need to reinvent the wheel.
More time effort in making a operating system that granny can use, less energy spent on this Ctrl, Alt Backspace dribble.
81 • xorg.conf (by john frey on 2009-02-11 16:10:11 GMT from Canada)
So if there's no xorg.conf where are does the configuration for X live?
I once hit ctrl-alt-backspace by mistake. I wanted ctrl-alt-del and hit the wrong combo without paying attention. Hardly a showstopper though.
82 • Simply Mepis RC3 (by anon on 2009-02-11 16:53:35 GMT from Norway)
I just did a few tries booting this (64-bit; v7.9.96) from DVD.
The boot process looks fine, until suddenly the screen turns black and unresponsive. C-A-D brings the Mepis logo/background back(!) and restarts the system.
This is on fairly vanilla hardware. No other live linuxen I have tried recently have had any problems. Clearly more work is called for.
83 • #82 Simply Mepis RC3 (by anticapitalista on 2009-02-11 18:54:38 GMT from Greece)
I suggest you post your report to Mepislovers forum and it will get back to Warren.
84 • It Simply Works (by obeyone on 2009-02-11 19:30:02 GMT from Australia)
"I just did a few tries booting this (64-bit; v7.9.96) from DVD.
The boot process looks fine, until suddenly the screen turns black and unresponsive. C-A-D brings the Mepis logo/background back(!) and restarts the system.
This is on fairly vanilla hardware. No other live linuxen I have tried recently have had any problems. Clearly more work is called for."
"I suggest you post your report to Mepislovers forum and it will get back to Warren."
Warren doesn't read the forums nor speak to anyone.If you read the Mepislovers forum you will see this is so.
Just use pure debian if you want a debian system. It just Simply Works.
85 • Warren and MepisLovers (by Todd R. on 2009-02-12 00:25:44 GMT from United States)
The post says, "..post your report to Mepislovers forum and it will get back to Warren."
Get back to him. That could mean he gets email alerts when users are having trouble and posting about it in the forums.. or that there are little forum guys and gals who regularly and frequently consult with Warren when they see certain issues and.. er, that is..
LOL... sorry.
86 • @84 (by RC on 2009-02-12 01:32:21 GMT from United States)
It is really bad form I believe, to make a statement that draws a so called conclusion about Simply Mepis based on one experience. Which seems to be what you have done..
I for instance just downloaded the iso this afternoon, burned it and four or five minutes after that I am listening to someone talk on a Live Video channel as I type this out (using the live cd).
My vanila machine is at the moment a Compaq Presario V6000 Media Center edition; the one which had/has the wireless reception problem but I am very certain I can easily establish a wireless connection using another machine.
87 • Opps 84 just reinforced #82 (by RC on 2009-02-12 01:37:51 GMT from United States)
Sorry, it was # 82 who draws conclusions and # 84 that reinforces the incorrect conclusion. And yes I am using the 64 bit version.
Thanks.
88 • #82, #86, #87 -- Not an incorrect conclusion (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-02-12 01:53:06 GMT from United States)
#86/87: RC: The only conclusion I see anon making is that a release candidate of Simply Mepis doesn't boot on his particular piece of hardware. That conclusion appears to be based on his personal experience. I don't see that as an incorrect conclusion. The idea that an RC needs more work because it fails on hardware detection on some admittedly unnamed hardware seems reasonable.
I've done testing for Vector Linux 6. A number of people had issues with specific hardware, including myself, and posted things similar to #82 in the Vector Linux forum. Instead of becoming defensive and blaming the person complaining as you have done the devs there rolled up their sleeves and worked on fixing the problems. The net result is that Vector Linux 6 is probably two months behind the original planned release date and has had a record number of beta and release candidates. It also means that a lot of issues will be fixed that wouldn't have been if someone just called the people who complained "incorrect".
I have seen nothing to indicate the Warren or anyone else working on Simply Mepis isn't open to constructive criticism. I have seen a few from the Mepis community here on DWW engaged in a marketing effort that seems to be intolerant of criticism. That doesn't help Mepis. It drives people away from the community. So... instead of throwing stones how about helping anon troubleshoot the issue he ran into? That would more helpful to the distro you are so fond of and to the community at large.
89 • No subject (by RC on 2009-02-12 02:01:56 GMT from United States)
I wrote what I wrote because it seemed to me that #82, #84 and apparently # 85 were needlessly attacking Simply Mepis on rather bogus grounds. And this is neither the Vector Linux forum nor the Simply Mepis Forum. But perhaps i am wrong.
90 • @Caitlyn& RC (by Crikey Crocs on 2009-02-12 02:18:12 GMT from Australia)
Caitlyn, I think RC was actually correct in what he said - obeyone in post 84 did say "...Just use pure debian if you want a debian system. It just Simply Works." which to me seems like saying " Piff Mepis and go with Grand Daddy Debian... ". Not to dissimilar to someone saying to another who's had an issue with Vector/Zen/Wolvix to use Slackware if they want pure Slack... it just works! ;-)
And anticapitalista suggested visiting the forums - quite helpful.
I've read lots of your posts previously and think you've been well balanced in your responses and what not - but this one fell short of the mark...
I'm sure if it was a user newly trying a Vector beta/RC (I see that Vector is still in RC with a few annoying probs still lingering - I do like that distro BTW) and they had the same issue or another issue you would have bent over backwards to defend the distro, help them and suggest posting in the forums...
No I'm not a Mepis user (yet), have tried it on a test machine and I do like teh look of it (had zero h/w issues) - I'm a Slack user.
Hope the poster heeds advice to visit the forum and gets sorted.
cheers! Off to fight a fire!
91 • @Ladislav (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-12 02:34:12 GMT from Canada)
"It's my fault, sorry about that. There was a security update to Awstats which I applied without thinking too much and it overwrote my changes. I'll fix it one of these days..."
This is an object lesson in why you should upstream your patches, Ladislav ;)
92 • RE: 91 (by ladislav on 2009-02-12 02:36:31 GMT from Taiwan)
I know, I know. Except that there are always some other, more pressing things to do...
93 • @81 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-12 02:37:56 GMT from Canada)
For many setups X no longer needs configuration. Fedora since 9 or 10 does not use or need xorg.conf by default; X auto-detects all necessary settings each time it starts up. xorg.conf will still be read if it exists, so you can over-ride the automatically detected settings if necessary.
This isn't really anything unusual. There's plenty of applications that work this way - the config file doesn't exist by default, if you need to change some behaviour, you create it. People just aren't used to X being one of them, because it didn't used to have these capabilities.
94 • Creating an xorg.conf file (by Try this on 2009-02-12 04:59:01 GMT from Australia)
In console mode (as root/sudo):
Code: Xorg -help
[...]
Device Dependent Usage
-configure probe for devices and write an xorg.conf
[...]
---------------------
Code: Xorg -configure
95 • RE: 94 Creating an xorg.conf file (by ladislav on 2009-02-12 05:26:18 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, and don't forget to shut down the X server before you run "xorg -configure". Preferably with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace ;-)
96 • opengeu review on wikipedia (by zoe on 2009-02-12 10:15:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
hi
just for your information
there is an OpenGEU review on wikipedia which is ok
97 • 93 (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-12 10:38:27 GMT from United States)
Adam: I still put this in with the five dumbest things that have ever been done in the IT world. This is a lot dumber than the release of Vista.
Picture this: a Windows user decides to check out Linux. He has a problem with the screen resolution. The solution? He can write himself an xorg.conf!!! Are you kidding me?
It was really bad before for a lot of experienced users to have to add a few lines to xorg.conf. Now, for reasons unknown to anyone in the world, you have to write the whole thing yourself. I tried to use Fedora 10 on my work machine. After a lot of looking around, it appears the only way to get multiple monitors to work with nVidia drivers is to write xorg.conf from scratch. I tried the xorg -configure, didn't work. I copied the Slackware xorg.conf, didn't work either. I'd go back to Windows if Fedora were my only choice. I hate Windows but there are limits to my hatred.
98 • re comment 96 (by zoe on 2009-02-12 10:38:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
sorry i should have said I wrote the article...hope its ok
99 • Windows to Linux via xorg.conf (by J.B. on 2009-02-12 10:42:38 GMT from United States)
Joe Biden sez:
"Picture this: a Windows user decides to check out Linux. He has a problem with the screen resolution. The solution? He can write himself an xorg.conf!!! Are you kidding me?"
That's exactly what happened in my case.
Of course, it was 4 years between "..he has a problem with screen resolution.." and "..he can write himself an xorg.conf."
Learning curves are all around us in life.
100 • Linus torvalds - Klauss knopper (by Chris on 2009-02-12 11:58:52 GMT from Canada)
Sorry this is a bit off topic. Someone commented a couple issues back about the most popular and looked up to guy in linux around being linus torvalds.
I would have to agree on that and the second most well respected person would have to be Klauss Knopper with knoppix.
I wonder what Linus Torvalds view on knoppix is? I couldn't imagine a more stronger linux force if those two ever got together and developed some amazing software.
Again, sorry to swing off topic but I think it's a topic well worth visiting. Any thoughts?
101 • 99 (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-12 12:11:19 GMT from United States)
"Learning curves are all around us in life."
But are you happy when someone imposes a learning curve on you for no good reason?
102 • More on ctrl-alt-backspace (by Tom on 2009-02-12 13:43:17 GMT from United States)
To the person who said that in emacs C-M-bks is mapped to some important function. I've been using emacs for just over 6 years, I've never needed to use that function.
What I have needed to do is kill the X sever with ctrl-alt-backspace many many times.
So why did every distro stop using XFree86? Is there another X server out there with a bit more sanity?
103 • @101 (by J.B. on 2009-02-12 14:31:14 GMT from United States)
I don't feel that we linux users have had a learning curve "imposed (on us) for no good reason."
There are motorcycles and there are motorcycle kits. There are lawn care services and there are hardware stores where all the stuff you need to do it yourself is available.
There is a range of linux types out there, starting at the "kit" end where a user has to literally put the OS together by hand, and there is Sabayon and Mint, etc.
As far as how "happy" I am, well, I'm here, not in any Windows forums.
104 • @102 Tom (by Miq on 2009-02-12 16:42:12 GMT from Sweden)
"To the person who said that in emacs C-M-bks is mapped to some important function. I've been using emacs for just over 6 years, I've never needed to use that function."
I was the one who reported that, it is all in the link I provided. Quick-removal of S-structures might not be important for you, but apparently it is considered a very important function for enough of the core hackers to warrant the removal of the X-zapping nerve pinch.
And you DO know that emacs contains roughly seven milliard functions, right? That you have never had to use a particular one means nothing at all. ;)
105 • @100 Chris (by ConstantObserver2 on 2009-02-12 17:15:54 GMT from United States)
Thank you Chris. What a Force it would be indeed, and even a more positive Force, if all would think and create in that manner.
106 • A missing "xorg.conf" rant (by eco2geek on 2009-02-12 18:36:33 GMT from United States)
Adam Williamson: "For many setups X no longer needs configuration. Fedora since 9 or 10 does not use or need xorg.conf by default; X auto-detects all necessary settings each time it starts up. xorg.conf will still be read if it exists, so you can over-ride the automatically detected settings if necessary."
When I pop an Ubuntu 8.10 live CD or a Fedora 10 live CD into my x86 box with the nVidia GeForce 6200 LE card and the Envision 1280x1024 LCD monitor, I get a maximum 800x600 resolution. Every time. (With the "nv" driver, of course.) If I want 1280x1024 resolution, I have to either create and edit an xorg.conf file manually or copy in a working one. Granted, it's an old computer, but that really doesn't entice me to want to use either distro.
If I want to use GSynaptics to control my laptop's touchpad, I get an error message saying that I have to put
"SHMConfig" "true"
into the Synaptics section of xorg.conf. Uh, you mean the xorg.conf that doesn't exist?
I've wondered exactly how many people have been adversely affected in some way by the upstream decision that we no longer need xorg.conf. Methinks it's two steps backwards.
(Whew. That feels better.)
(As to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace -- it's a useful key combination. Why knowingly _decrease_ functionality?)
107 • Simply Mepis (by anon on 2009-02-12 20:59:32 GMT from Norway)
@90 Crikey Crocs
The reason I posted my experience with the latest Simply Mepis is that I am very tired of statements like 'You reallly should try this or that distro. It rocks!'. Nobody needs such spam. What we need is a good *reason* to try something. So I thought I'd give these posters a fact, for a change. The fact is Simply Mepis fell through on my system. Seems I hit the nail right on the thumb.
Caitlyn Martin wrote:
"I have seen a few from the Mepis community here on DWW engaged in a marketing effort that seems to be intolerant of criticism. That doesn't help Mepis. It drives people away from the community."
My thoughts exactly.
108 • @107 (by Crikey Crocs on 2009-02-12 22:47:05 GMT from Australia)
I'm not defending those people who shout to all the world that distro X is the "bees knees" and must be tried... what I'm saying is that visiting a forum may get you some answers.
And in regards to your thought collusion with Caitlyn regarding the "issues" of some Mepis community members HA! EVERY distro has its fanbois and funnily enough this is a Linux site and they would gravitate to here so obviously they would shout their devotion to the distro and defend it toot and nail should someone disparage it...
Let's not point the finger at Mepis alone (tsk tsk Caitlyn you should know better) for it (fanboism, etc) has been done by every one-eyed distro lover here on DWW and in various Linux forums... Go to a Windows forum and start raving on how pathetic MS OS are and see all the fanbois beat their chests...
Peace.
109 • Ref#100 What topic !!! (by John Wilks Booth on 2009-02-12 22:50:12 GMT from United States)
Off topic! What topic are you referring to. Almost every other post is off-topic. Almost nothing here in the comments makes much sense. Only the first days worth of comments are worth reading. They rapidly deteriorate after that.
Most of the comments were about that silly "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace" nonsense. It's as though everyone stopped reading after that. What about Intel's Mobin or the rest of the articles.
110 • @93 (by john frey on 2009-02-13 00:39:01 GMT from Canada)
Adam, Indeed I have seen software setups that have no .conf file and either suggest you create one with the desired options or give a sample .conf file to be copied into /etc.
I recently ran into this setting up a Geexbox multimedia frontend. Mplayer has some .conf files but for some options one must create an mplayer.conf.
You say it is common but is it a relativley recent development in Linux or has this been going on since the early days? Where does the auto-detection get the settings it assigns, in the startup scripts in init.d or is it part of hal or udev? Hope you don't mind all the questions. Feel free to suggest rtfm if you can name the fine manual.
111 • Guide/s for creating and configuring xorg.conf in Fedora 10 (by Go with the flow on 2009-02-13 01:05:05 GMT from Australia)
Fedora 10 and the Evolution of Xorg
http://www.ghacks.net/2009/01/14/fedora-10-and-the-evolution-of-xorg/
Fedora 10 Release Notes:
2.5.1. X Configuration Changes
Fedora 10 uses the evdev input driver as standard mouse and keyboard driver for the X server. This driver works with HAL to provide a persistent per-device configuration that allows devices to be added or removed at runtime.
http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/07/input-configuration-in-nutshell.html -- Evdev configuration.
2.5.2. Third-party Video Drivers
Refer to the Xorg third-party drivers page for detailed guidelines on using third-party video drivers.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xorg/3rdPartyVideoDrivers
2.5.3. Resources
Where is xorg.conf in fedora 10(final)
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=204921
Re: Customzing xorg config in Fedora 10
http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Fedora/2008-11/msg02606.html
112 • Mepis (by None of your business on 2009-02-13 02:16:06 GMT from United States)
T tried to get the Mepis CD to boot up on my Thinkpad T22 and couldn't get a desktop. Just a blank screen and no activity. I tried every boot parameter known to man and it wouldn't go. Yeah, there is a problem. I'm sure 8.0 will be great, but let's face it, there is a problem. What's the problem with someone saying it wouldn't boot? There are other distros that worked fine, but if I identify them then I am some kind of fanboy. When 8.0 is released I will take my place in the "download line". I have liked Mepis since 2003 and I still do. Get over the criticism.
113 • re: 81 & 102 (by Some Guy On the Internets on 2009-02-13 03:36:01 GMT from United States)
X auto-detects all necessary settings each time it starts up. xorg.conf will still be read if it exists, so you can over-ride the automatically detected settings if necessary.
If you use fglrx or nvidia an xorg.conf is necessary as the autodetection conveniently ignores those drivers. Nvidia submitted code that allowed the auto-detection to use the nvidia module and it started a flame war and a removal of the patch, which shows that the X.org developers priorities are not their users but their own agenda. Very disconcerting from a usability stand point.
So why did every distro stop using XFree86? Is there another X server out there with a bit more sanity?
The usual infighting that happens in any volunteer group when they don't agree with each other and the addition of an "advertising clause" to the license which makes it impractical to re-distribute.
There is nothing stopping anyone from downloading the source and building it themselves or installing a binary release as it is still 0 cost.
114 • Re: 76 • XorgMailingLists
Edit (by Ariszló at 2009-02-13 08:56:26 GMT from Hungary)
"If that upsets you, let them know about it, the xorg mailing lists are public. http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgMailingLists xorg-devel could use some polite user input."
OK, here is my user input:
http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-February/000089.html
And here is the answer:
http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-February/000090.html
115 • Mepis - Getting The Facts Right (by Brooko on 2009-02-13 09:04:08 GMT from New Zealand)
In reply to various posts
#83 - Sorry Mepis didn't work for you. However we have zero chance of fixing any issues if you don't come to the forum and post re the problem and your hardware. If you want to actually assist - then we'd welcome your input.
#84 (obeyone) - actually Warren is quite well involved with the Community. He answers his emails, has adopted some of the Community's rewriting of his tools (now under Apache licensing), had used the art, and has implemented a host of Community spawned ideas. True - he does not post in the forums, but I know he does read the feedback on the beta/rc threads.
#85 - couldn't see the point of your post. That was supposed to be sarcasm right? See above. It's called "Community" for a reason.
#88 Caitlyn - I enjoy reading your posts and acknowledge your superior Linux experiences - I am but a beginner in comparison. But I don't think you've seen a 'few from the Mepis community here on DWW engaged in a marketing effort that seems to be intolerant of criticism'. I think you've seen one repeat poster who's proud of Mepis & maybe gone a bit overboard (weekly). Please don't make a blanket judgement based on one poster. Just clarifying - we welcome any and all feedback - and if there are genuine bugs, we would like to get them fixed. Warren has really come a long way with this in the last 18 months to the point that we have a Community run website as well as forum, Community remaster of KDE 4.2 (live-DVD), Community managed repos, Community managed Wiki & manuals etc.
#112 - Again, if you have time, come to the forums and post your issues. We'd appreciate some solid information on your set-up so that Warren at least has a chance of correcting any issues.
To all - we are excited about the upcoming release of Mepis 8 - and any constructive critquing is welcomed ... as am sure is same with any other distro.
Chris / Ladislav - as always, enjoy reading DW + the comments.
116 • Excited about AntiX M8.0, announced this morning (by Brian Masinick on 2009-02-13 17:27:38 GMT from United States)
The antiX M8.0 announcement came this morning: http://antix.freeforums.org/antix-m8-goes-final-t1411.html on the AntiX site, http://www.mepis.org/node/14212 on the MEPIS site. It has been a fun effort and I have been involved in testing it, making suggestions, and in promoting the good word about it. Compared to SimplyMEPIS, this version is slightly more current, based on Debian Testing instead of Debian Stable, is fast, light, and flexible. It has core technologies from Debian, MEPIS, sidux, and Absolute Linux, plus some fine integration work from a number of contributers.
For this release, more attention has been paid to localization, and IceWM is the default window manager, which makes it slightly easier to use for those who may be uncomfortable with Fluxbox, but the fast and flexible Fluxbox continues to be available as well.
The team that has been testing and using this software has been positive about it all along. As one who has used it quite a bit myself, I am really positive about this one - try it out!
117 • Simply Mepis (by anon on 2009-02-13 17:55:37 GMT from Norway)
@108 Crikey Crocs and 115 Brooko:
I am not attacking Simply Mepis per se; I am sure it will work fine when the booting problem has been addressed. For the record, I tried the RC3 on a system with
AMD Athlon 64 3500+;
Gigabyte K8NXP-9 nForce4 Ultra;
Sapphire Radeon X600PRO 256MB DDR PCI-Express;
Corsair TWINX1024-3200XL DDR-DIMM 1024MB (Dual Channel);
PS2 mouse/keyboard.
This is, in my view, about as general or 'vanilla' as you can get with a relatively modern PC setup. There is nothing else to report, as I annot devine error messages from a black screen.
By all means, let the fanbois praise their chosen distro. What I am asking is that they give reasons for their ravings. In this case - *why* should anyone use, or even try, Simply Mepis over, say, Debian or another Debian derivative? Let us know and I am sure the postings here would be a lot more interesting... :-)
118 • Re: #107 - errors (by anon on 2009-02-13 17:59:00 GMT from Norway)
"annot" should be 'cannot'; "devine" should be 'divine'. Sorry.
119 • @Various, re X stuff (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-13 19:30:24 GMT from Canada)
@95: I know you're joking, but it's not funny if it's not accurate. ;) ctrl-alt-backspace has never *stopped* the X server. it *restarts* it. So it's entirely useless if you need to stop X to do something.
@97: Um. Your premise is wrong. If you want to change the screen resolution, use the GUI tools to change it. There's a "Screen Resolution" tool right there in the menus.
If you're talking about a system where there's an actual bug in X, or a problem with the hardware, which causes the wrong resolution to be used and the right one not to be available, I still don't accept the argument. It assumes that making the correct edit to an existing xorg.conf is easier for someone to figure out than creating one and editing it is, which I don't think is accurate at all. The average newbie is not likely to be able to either of these by themselves. They will wind up asking for help, and when they do that, it's just as easy to tell them how to generate an xorg.conf and then edit it as it is to tell them how to edit an existing file. In any case, the correct fix here is not 'make it slightly less painful to work around bugs in X', the correct fix is 'make X work right in the first place'. I'd rather worry about that than whether xorg.conf exists or not.
Interestingly, I have the same setup as you - dual displays with an NVIDIA card, and I was also entirely new to Fedora. I have to use the proprietary driver at present as nv and nvidia don't work. I followed the instructions to set up the NVIDIA driver via rpmfusion (I found them by clicking on the first result for Googling 'fedora nvidia', but there's lots of ways). Then I ran nvidia-settings and told it how I wanted my monitors set up, and voila, dual displays. There *is* a problem with nvidia-settings not being able to write this to the xorg.conf that is created when you enable the NVIDIA drivers in Fedora, because it's a partial one. So I reported this as a bug to the rpmfusion project, and they're working on it. This seems like the right way to do things to me.
@106: have you filed a bug with Fedora, Ubuntu, or X.org, explaining the problem and providing the output of 'monitor-edid' (install it if necessary, run as root)? That would be the best way to get it addressed.
I believe the problem with gsynaptics is that it's not adjusted to the newer X.org synaptics driver which some distros are now using in preference to the older external one, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Again, the issue is not really with xorg.conf.
@113: If you do what I did - Google 'fedora nvidia' - you will find perfectly simply and extremely easy to follow instructions for installing the NVIDIA driver on Fedora. These instructions cause an xorg.conf file to be automatically created which loads the nvidia driver on boot. As I said, I had precisely no experience with Fedora, I followed the instructions exactly as written, and it worked. Took about two minutes.
120 • 119 correction (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-13 19:31:27 GMT from Canada)
Correction to 119 - should read "as nv and nouveau don't work", not "as nv and nvidia don't work".
121 • 117 - Mepis Issues (by Brooko on 2009-02-13 20:54:18 GMT from New Zealand)
Thanks for the update. Can assure you that so far you seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Try (from the grub screen) booting with the vesa driver. It should at least get you to a graphical login, then if you come to the forums and discuss the rest there, I'm sure we can progress further. I think that's more the place rather than cluttering the DW forum. Look forward to seeing you post on ML.
122 • 119 (by Joe Biden on 2009-02-13 21:08:14 GMT from United States)
Adam: You are stuck in the developer mindset. Let me break this to you: hardware detection is not perfect. Hence, you need to ask what someone should do when the screen resolutions in the GUI tools are not correct.
"In any case, the correct fix here is not 'make it slightly less painful to work around bugs in X', the correct fix is 'make X work right in the first place'."
Obviously, but I live on planet Earth where nothing works perfectly every time.
"Then I ran nvidia-settings and told it how I wanted my monitors set up, and voila, dual displays."
And I ran nvidia-settings, and voila, didn't get dual displays. I also got the error message about not being able to write to xorg.conf, but did not get a dual display.
"It assumes that making the correct edit to an existing xorg.conf is easier for someone to figure out than creating one and editing it is, which I don't think is accurate at all."
Really? You're serious, not just too stubborn to admit that this was a bad choice? Do you think that anyone not working on the Fedora project would agree with you?
Telling a Windows user to add "1280x1024" at a certain point in an existing xorg.conf is not easier than telling him, "You have to create an xorg.conf" and then add "1280x1024" after figuring out where it goes? Huh? How do you do your calculation of 'easier'?
123 • Simply Mepis (by anon on 2009-02-13 22:46:46 GMT from Norway)
@121 Brooko
If you read post #112 you will note that my experience is not exceptional.
Also, if you read my two last posts in full, you will notice that my beef is not with Simply Mepis in particular, but with recommendations of distros without any concrete reasons. That, in my opinion, is cluttering DW.
124 • jigdo for Debian (by Woody Ochs on 2009-02-13 23:38:38 GMT from United States)
Can anyone make sense of the gibberish offered as documentation for jigdo?
125 • No subject (by Sertse on 2009-02-14 00:25:56 GMT from Australia)
Why doesn't Windows have this problem? Why is it Linux that "problems" like this quite encountered? Do Xorg developers just suck?
/troll off
Anyway, back to distros.
Anyone think Debian will actually be released today? It's pretty stable ready but I'm just an average user...
The Mandriva beta looks interesting, "Speedboot"...I want to hear about people's experiences, if they tried it.
126 • re 125 (by corneliu on 2009-02-14 00:45:41 GMT from Canada)
I have benn using Mandriva 2009.1 since alpha and I am very pleased with it (I've got KDE 4.2). I haven't used speedboot. The normal boot is pretty fast anyway.
Debian will be released tomorrow (St. Valentine's). I guess the default theme will be pink and the wallpaper will show a swirling red heart.
127 • RE: 119 @Various, re X stuff (by ladislav on 2009-02-14 00:49:25 GMT from Taiwan)
ctrl-alt-backspace has never *stopped* the X server. it *restarts* it.
Never say never. If you start your X server with "startx" from the terminal, then Ctrl+Alt+Backspace with kill it and return you to the terminal. Ask any Slackware user.
128 • re 123 / Mepis (by Brooko on 2009-02-14 01:05:55 GMT from New Zealand)
I did read your post :)
Did you try vesa? And the whole point of my posts has been to point you to the forums so the community can help - and try (if there is a bug) to get Warren enough knowledge so he can address it. But I'll stop asking now - you either will or you won't. Let's leave it there. The point is - I'm not a fanboy - I'm only interested in getting M8 out the door as complete as possible.
You asked what Mepis gives that Debian (or deriviatives) doesn't specifically:
- Warren's gui tools > very easy expecially for newbies. Includes some nice tools like a repairer for X, graphics driver installer, usb bootable key creator etc.
- Debian stable base - but continually updated packages (via Community repo and also via Warren). I know you can get these through debian-backports.
- Very good, up-to-date and fast kernels (I think this is one of Warren's specialities)
- Nice implementation & integration of KDE 3.5
There's also a pretty good & vibrant Community. The forums and documentation are also very good for both new users and the more experienced.
I'm not trying to 'preach Mepis' though. It's there if you want to try it - IMO it's very good. But so are a lot of other distros out there. I personally have also tried most of the other majors & all of them have their strong points. Important thing is that we are all using an OS that is suitable to each individual. Mine happens to be Mepis.
129 • open source or patent encumbered? (by jack on 2009-02-14 01:21:37 GMT from Canada)
Cnet.com has an article on Moonlight in which the following is stated:
"There is a patent covenant for anyone that downloads [Moonlight] from Novell," answered de Icaza, who then acknowledged that "as to extending the patents to third parties -- you have to talk to Microsoft."
This answer led Schroepfer to point out the inconsistency between having products that are called open source but are "patent-encumbered."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10163475-16.html
Is this a variation on being "slightly pregnant?"
130 • @119 and @95 (by eco2geek on 2009-02-14 02:46:21 GMT from United States)
"@106: have you filed a bug with Fedora, Ubuntu, or X.org, explaining the problem and providing the output of 'monitor-edid' (install it if necessary, run as root)? That would be the best way to get it addressed."
OK, will do. It looks like hardware auto-detection is the wave of the future and that ranting about it will not make xorg.conf come back. (H'mm...actually, the old auto-detection worked by creating an xorg.conf. The new auto-detection works without creating an xorg.conf. Or is supposed to, anyway. :-)
@95: BTW, you don't actually have to shut down X before you use the "Xorg -configure" command - you just have to give it another screen number, e.g. issuing the command
Xorg -configure :1
in a console while X is running on screen 0 will create an "xorg.conf.new" file in /root.
131 • RE: 130 (by ladislav on 2009-02-14 02:52:35 GMT from Taiwan)
Xorg -configure :1
Great tip - thanks a lot :-)
132 • @111 (by john frey on 2009-02-14 04:42:20 GMT from Canada)
Hey go with the flo, thanks for the links. There was everything I always wanted to know about xorg, hal and dbus:)
133 • The latest anti-X! (by Joey on 2009-02-14 15:09:31 GMT from United States)
This is a gift to the world of Linux! We installed on our old Gateway with old nvidia 5200. Configures great with proper resolution etc.
Good fast distro. Thank you Mepis!!
134 • @127, @122 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-15 07:42:15 GMT from Canada)
@127: Hmm, fair point. But then so would logging out :)
@122: Heh. Stuck in the developer mindset. That's cute, since I'm not a developer, nor have I ever been one. Wouldn't know what to do with a line of C if my life depended on it.
For a start, you can't just switch the resolution in an existing xorg.conf in one place to change it. Well, you can, but you have to happen to know what colour depth you're running at, which your average newbie isn't likely to know. So, that's four places.
For a second, you can't just change a line in xorg.conf with any RandR 1.2-compliant driver either, because RandR 1.2 drivers don't use the same syntax in xorg.conf. They'll completely ignore all the stuff in the Screen section that you're probably used to editing. To force a specific resolution with an RandR 1.2 driver, you have to add a whole different set of crap to xorg.conf. See http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 for details.
"Really? You're serious, not just too stubborn to admit that this was a bad choice?"
Yes. I'm serious. I don't see how it's any harder to tell someone "Run Xorg -configure , then edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and do blah blah blah" than it is to tell them "edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and do blah blah blah". It's one extra step, and if they can do the second, they can do the first. Where's the problem?
And if nvidia-settings didn't give you dual displays - that would seem to be a bug in the NVIDIA driver and tools, nothing to do with Fedora. Of course, Fedora does not ship or support proprietary software. So, the appropriate venue for complaints would be NVIDIA.
135 • Woof alpha1 (by bk on 2009-02-15 08:15:10 GMT from Australia)
I wrote a web page introducing Woof, also have released 'alpha1':
http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00568
136 • The ground trembles (by Anonymous on 2009-02-15 09:03:55 GMT from United States)
Debian 5.0 (Lenny) has finally been released.
137 • Re: 136 • The ground trembles (by Ariszló on 2009-02-15 12:07:35 GMT from Hungary)
Yes! Quick links for geeks who prefer netinstall to live cd's:
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.0/i386/bt-cd/debian-500-i386-netinst.iso.torrent
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.0/amd64/bt-cd/debian-500-amd64-netinst.iso.torrent
138 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-02-15 14:41:23 GMT from Canada)
From Debian's release announcement: This release includes numerous updated software packages, such as the K Desktop Environment 3.5.10, an updated version of the GNOME desktop environment 2.22.2, the Xfce 4.4.2 desktop environment, LXDE 0.3.2.1, the GNUstep desktop 7.3, X.Org 7.3, OpenOffice.org 2.4.1, GIMP 2.4.7 (my bold)
How are those packages updated when the latest versions are:
KDE 4.2
Gnome 2.24
Xorg 7.4
OpenOffice 3.0.1
GIMP 2.6.4
139 • Re 138 (by Sertse on 2009-02-15 14:51:16 GMT from Australia)
It's comparing against Etch, which the one in Lenny would be upgrades of...
140 • @134 • @127, @122 (by Adam Williamson (by john frey on 2009-02-15 16:43:06 GMT from Canada)
>>@127: Hmm, fair point. But then so would logging out :)
Oh Adam, you're off your game. ;)
What if X is frozen which is the reason we want ctrl-alt-backspace to remain an option?
141 • Mandriva 2009 spring beta (by killer1987 on 2009-02-15 18:24:50 GMT from Italy)
hi to all,
i've tried mandriva 2009.1 beta, it seems quite promising, hope this release will be the best ever...
142 • No subject (by forest on 2009-02-15 19:15:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
re #138
My sentiments exactly...until I realised the version I took and possibly yourself is NOT the latest...I found the d/l pages very confusing...so I tried Mepis...and so on to re.#133...yes very nice distro, very trendy looking, but wifi not yet sorted. (Don't have straightforward Ethernet in PC location...)
Which just leaves me to say, at the risk of global vilification...you would have a job beating Ubuntu 8 series...for a newbie that is...everything just works.
Which is splendid if you want a working solution out of the box, and I do of course. Trying to get understandable (I am a newbie...) answers from "any" forum is largely a leap of faith going onto them in the first place. The best source of info was from that freebie PDF Ubuntu book from last week..thanks Keir...readable AND understandable.
Which is why I don't understand, if Ubuntu can simply cobble up a working app, from whomever, to get wifi, say, the other distro writers don't say, "Hmmm, that works, we'll use it in ours..."
I gather this is NOT cheating, so why use some other app which is perhaps not as useful? There is NO virtue in having to write a line or two of code to get something working, especially as how the proven apps are out there already.
Everything evolves eventually (aplologies for alliterative stuff but you can use it yourself...call it freespeak...) so why do the retro thing? I gather there are some authorites... in another country...who eschew Darwinism and embrace Creationism...but that's arrant nonsense and they should blush with shame. GNULinux is constantly evolving, so when something "just works" what is the point of going backwards?
There was a sentiment expressed on another forum apropos GNULinux, that the ONLY weak point was the bickering between the adherents of the various distro writers and their disciples...and judging by the comments I have read he was not mistaken, LOL..
If Linux is to replace MS/Mac (that is the aim from what I read, LOL) then it wants to be as simple as possible to sort...we don't all aspire to a degree in computer science, we just want a reliable platform, without the hassle of nasties.
143 • New GNU review todo? (by alienjeff on 2009-02-15 23:17:54 GMT from United States)
I hereby request Caitlyn to review Barry Kauler's new "Woof."
144 • RE: 138, 142 (by Anonymous on 2009-02-15 23:19:27 GMT from Canada)
Please stop trolling. Debian never ships with the absolute latest packages. Debian aims towards a stable, well-tested base to minimize breakage. Really, just go climb back under your rock of hate and let others enjoy their free computing discussion.
I'm really tired of reading these booster-trolls every week. I suggest they support their distro of choice by getting involved and doing some work themselves, rather than just coming here to hate on other people working on other projects that actually advance free computing.
I'm happy to see Deb released Lenny, congrats to all involved.
I think the Xorg devs are displaying an incredible lack of respect for the end users they're supposedly working for by removing the default Ctrl-Alt-Backspace shortcut key. If they have a problem because of a key-conflict with emacs let them edit their own config files, it's certainly less of a problem for them than new adoptees most likely to need to kill Xorg. But no, they suggest the end user with little experience should be forced to much around with config files right out of the box just to maintain functionality. End users, ptth, why worry about them?
145 • Debian release, RE: 138, 142 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2009-02-16 01:50:53 GMT from Italy)
KDE 4? I don't want it, and I am glad that the Debian people were wise enough not to bother with it.
Otherwise I added the Sidux and Mepis repos, that allow me to have kernel 2.6.28 precompiled, OpenOffice 3, Firefox, Thunderbird, extra tools...
146 • No subject (by forest on 2009-02-16 04:08:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re 145:
I was referring really to apps to get hardware working...my particular interest is to get wifi up and away, and, using a media player that can get any extra codecs at the press of a few keys, job done.
Network Manager, say, appears to work with minimal input from the user (where possible of course)...others are akin to the Spanish Inquisition...or completing a tax return...so why trouble to use less capable apps (for capable = easy to use).
Again with OO3.org, I gather it is compatible with the new OO(MS) .x extension (hope that is right?) so, if you will, it might be considered the "new" standard, so why trouble to use a WP which is unhappy with certain files? Although I believe there could be a size issue.
Desktops are largely a matter of taste...in the same category as screen savers...ie it's a subjective thing. I quite like the E17 Enlightenment. I like also the "standard" front end of the latest Mepis...by virtue of its green theme...how facile is that?!
I don't particularly like the bouncing "jellyfish" doodads on some desktops but others do of course.
I have tried about 60 odd distros during this past year...and I can't be doing with duff partitioners or internet adapter/wifi apps, say. If Ubuntu gets these aspects almost spot on most of the time it was my contention that other distro writers simply take a leaf out of their book. The notion is that software, in the main, is for any and all to adapt or modify to their heart's content.
If folk like to experiment with slackware, say, then absolutely why not? The only caveat might be the old prob with parallel evolution...nature sometimes amuses herself, viz cromagnons v. neanderthals. or VHS v. Betamax or even DVDHD v Blu Ray...(yes, well I did say it was amusing...sometimes the best man does not win...)
The developer folk obviously get a buzz so to speak...I get a buzz out of installing a distro and it just works with the absolute minimum of fuss and bother first time, ie no command line stuff, and, of major importance to myself, I can get instant functionality.
147 • #143 (by Tiki on 2009-02-16 04:37:20 GMT from United States)
To what end? You know she won't do it. Anyway, the last I heard you wanted everyone to dump Puppy for Arch.
148 • Re: 138, 145 • KDE4 (by Ariszló at 2009-02-16 07:12:57 GMT from Hungary)
You can experiment with KDE4 in Debian if you really want to:
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde4.html
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| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
| • Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
| • Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
| • Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
| • Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
| • Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
| • Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
| • Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
| • Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
| • Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20
| | • Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
| • Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Full list of all issues |
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Klax Live-CD
Klax Live-CD was a Linux live CD based on Slackware Linux and SLAX. Its primary goal was to showcase the latest KDE desktop environment and related applications, such as KOffice, on a live CD for demonstration purposes.
Status: Discontinued
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View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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