| DistroWatch Weekly
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1 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-01-26 10:11:22 GMT from Italy) |
Nice! Didn't even know such a conference existed... too bad australia is far :D
2 • Good for Adam and Vincent (by Gigi on 2009-01-26 10:17:11 GMT from Singapore)
Hope to see many more valued contributions from Adam and Vincent. Good luck with your new job at RH
3 • Happy New Year (by ChiJoan on 2009-01-26 10:26:36 GMT from United States)
Thanks for another great newsletter. Did I really stay up late enough to be the first to read it?
Now to dream of Tux and Tuz in some game together...Pinball? Word games maybe? Too bad I'm not a programmer...
ChiJoan in Reno, NV
4 • Tassie Conference (by John on 2009-01-26 10:36:29 GMT from Australia)
Thank you for the article on the Tasmanian LCA conference. A nice coincidence that it was published on DistroWatch on Australia Day: a public holiday here. I don't see much stuff about Linux and Australia: we are a Microsoft colony. Very good article and it is nice to know that Australia is featured in DistroWatch.
Keep up the good work.
Caboolture QLD OZ.
5 • Great report on Linux.conf.au (by zaine_ridling on 2009-01-26 10:47:21 GMT from United States)
Wow, great to hear all the news from down under. Computerworld did a Linus interview this week and he seemed happy to be there.
6 • Question for AdamW (by Caraibes on 2009-01-26 11:52:36 GMT from Dominican Republic)
-So Adam, what are you running on your desktop today ???
(Fedora, RHEL... )
7 • linux.conf.au (by Oska on 2009-01-26 12:24:26 GMT from Australia)
Yes, in response to John's comment, MS is still fairly strong in Australia. However we have a proud record for GNU/linux development. To mention just two names, both Andrew Morton (-mm tree) and Tridge (samba, rsync) are Australians.
And firefox adoption is better in Australia than for the USA, UK and Canada I believe, so for an Anglospere country perhaps we're not doing so badly.
8 • Riiiiiight.... (by Anonymous on 2009-01-26 12:54:07 GMT from United States)
When asked what makes Ubuntu so popular, he replies "That's obvious: its fantastic community."
Is this the same community that harasses facebook accounts of people that contact local news outlets about their Dell laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed? Or the community that harasses teachers that take away a child's Ubuntu CD's during class? Just curious as I wouldn't call a community that tolerates that sort of borderline psychotic behavior in its members fantastic. If anything, they are giving us all a black eye.
9 • RE: So? What are you doing about anything? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-26 13:05:28 GMT from United States)
Riiiiiight.... Mr. Anonymous. If this is true, which you've offered no proof, what are you doing about it besides hiding behind anonymous? If you are going to bring problems to the front then at least offer proof. It sounds made up the way you wrote it.
10 • On the other hand, why bother? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-26 13:16:11 GMT from United States)
I wish I could get through one DWW without someone trying to cause hateful feelings between and with different distro communities. Things happen all the time with humans. Thats not going to change and all types of people will cause problems. I don't think that DWW is really the place to bring it up. What would be the purpose? Except maybe to get a rise out of people. I will speak on this subject no more.
11 • No subject (by Refilwe on 2009-01-26 13:20:14 GMT from Canada)
Actually what anonymous said is true...but it's not very important. Yes it's sad that some people got angry in those two cases but anonymous uses the same type of reasoning that most anti-groupX people use...they take the behavior of some (no matter how small a percentage of the whole) and then claim the collective is bad because of that small group.
This sort of reasoning is where stereotypes are born unfortunately.
12 • RE:11 (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-26 13:27:26 GMT from United States)
I agree, and it is sad.
13 • great (by Tervel on 2009-01-26 13:43:47 GMT from Austria)
Great DWW !
14 • Re: Good for Adam and Vincent (by Anonymous on 2009-01-26 14:02:24 GMT from Canada)
I'd say good for Adam and VIncent too!
Congratulations Adam, Vincent and RedHat.
15 • Linux.conf.au (by My Linux Page on 2009-01-26 14:03:01 GMT from United States)
Once again distrowatch thanks for the great articles. It's good to hear that people are embracing Linux all over the world.
16 • #8 (by davemc on 2009-01-26 14:51:45 GMT from United States)
Maybe poster #8's name IS Anonymous. Hmm. Maybe not, but it is true that several individuals harassed that poor ignorant teacher. While it is indeed deeply troubling that we have a teacher like that teaching and influencing our kids, it is equally so that we have people in the Linux Community doing what they did. It certainly did no favors to how the public at large views us.
17 • WOW (by Brian B on 2009-01-26 15:07:08 GMT from United States)
Thank you so much for this DWW! It was very positive on many aspects and just what I wanted to hear on an early monday morning. I'm very excited about ksplice, I know i've heard of the before, but hearing now what it does - thrills me.
18 • RE: 16 Not our place to harass. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-26 15:20:46 GMT from United States)
Maybe his (or her) name is Anonymous. Anyway thats a whole different story. It not up to us to harass the teacher. Its up to the parents of the student. Its not up to us to harass anybody. This should not have anything to do with how the public at large views us. I doubt that the public at large really knows anything about it or even cares about it. Really there is no use in worrying about it. These things are going to happen right or wrong and all we can do is not do the wrong thing ourselves.
Now, let's talk about distributions.
19 • Ksplice (by Dennis Ivanov on 2009-01-26 16:01:13 GMT from Russian Federation)
Yep, Ksplice is great idea. I heard some info about it before, but nice to hear that project is developing. Would be nice to include this feature to some fast-developing distro (providing also out-of-the-box support for video/audio, firefox playback etc.)...
Thanks for this great DWW!
20 • Interesting DWW article (by Verndog on 2009-01-26 16:26:25 GMT from United States)
Usually the negative comments are posted at the end of the week and not the beginning. The first couple of days comments are usually well thought out. Toward the end of the week people get mean with some hateful drivel.
Very interesting story on the Australian, "Linux.conf.au". Never knew it existed.
Also I wasn't aware of the plight of the Tasmanian Devil. Hopefully they will find a cure.
I'm sure we might see a Ubuntu based , Tasmanian release soon :)
21 • Distros (by JAG on 2009-01-26 16:27:38 GMT from United States)
Here are several distros to talk about!!
(even some newer ones!!)
These two may be of interest...
Puppy-Exton LXDE 2009
22 • Ubuntu and Slackware (by uz64 on 2009-01-26 18:19:09 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure what to think of KDE4 making it into Slackware. I have tried it several times, different versions, and never ended up impressed. That opposite, actually--the bugs and quirks always drive me nuts to the point of ending my KDE4 run. Not to mention, it runs like a tank on my machine, which has only 256 megs of RAM. Hopefully it's come a seriously long way since 4.1.2 or 4.1.5 (whichever was the last version I tried), but I am having a hard time imagining that it did.
On Ubuntu, do any of its derivatives (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio) plan on releasing 8.04.2 ISOs?
23 • RE: # 22 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2009-01-26 18:53:25 GMT from Italy)
I am also surprised by Patrick's move.
On the other hand, I don't expect a release, with KDE 4 replacing KDE 3.5 to be around the corner.
Also, we shouldn't see KDE 4 in Debian Stable before a couple of years.
24 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-01-26 20:02:45 GMT from Canada)
Also, we shouldn't see KDE 4 in Debian Stable before a couple of years.
That's actually when they will release Lenny. So no worries mate. By the time Debian will include KDE 4 we'll be using KDE 5 already.
25 • LCA -Next Year NZ! (by Bob Lourie on 2009-01-26 20:19:57 GMT from New Zealand)
Wellington is a great choice! Almost as close as it can get for me...
Great focus to grow Linux use in NZ over the next year too. Wellington business will be positive about Linux with the added incentive of a conference spend - and they do have a great glass network downtown.
Being a bit rural, my most tangible ( as against frequent) contact with Linux is the DVD in the APC -Oz computer mag.- which has had a different distribution every month ( two last month - gOS, Mandriva), and the Linux articles inside are useful ( and increasing in number over time too) so I guess Oz interest in Linux is big and getting bigger
You are my homepage!
26 • KDE4 on Slackware?... (by elimisteve at 2009-01-26 20:47:00 GMT from United States)
I sure hope it'll be possible to use KDE3 on Slackware still. Slack is the only light-weight major distro, and I worry that will end once KDE4 becomes its default wm...
27 • Conferences are a great thing (by rarsa on 2009-01-26 22:16:38 GMT from Canada)
I'm glad to hear that there is a big linux conference in Australia. Next time I would prefer if I hear about it before it starts :D.
I live quite far but I would have passed the tip to other people that live in Australia such as the Puppylinux creator or the current community release coordinator. I am sure that people from Indonesia and other south asian countries may find it attractive to go there.
To walk the walk, I'm advising you waaaay in advance about the 3rd Ontario Linux fest to be hosted in Toronto on October 24
If you know about any speakers that may be around Toronto around that time, pass them the message even though the call for presenters hasn't been officially started.
28 • Granule is nice (by Gene Venable on 2009-01-26 22:44:33 GMT from United States)
I had occasion to run Granule in the hurly-burly of trying out Win 7 and running into some problems.
Granule is solid and has a similar appeal to Linux Mint in that your encrypted DVDs work out of the box.
It's a pretty distro and served me well.
I really want Sidux to take its place, since I was running it on this computer for about a year, but I have been unable to reinstall Sidux for reasons I don't understand. (something or other #17 error messages when I try to boot from the iso on a dvd or from a usb stick -- in the past, I've installed Sidux without this problem lots of times...)
I'm attracted by the idea of ext 4, however, so I'll probably try jaunty jackalope and give Ubuntu a go again.
29 • Re #28 Sidux (by Glenn on 2009-01-27 00:23:12 GMT from Canada)
Try Sidux one more time, especially if you have had it running on that box before. Before you try to install it though, do a reset of your BIOS. I find that sometime error bits are on for some reason or other and it can cause some weird things when trying to install distros.
That happened on my Thinkpad T60.
Good luck and have fun.
30 • KDE4/Slackware (by Shawn on 2009-01-27 00:23:42 GMT from United States)
I'm actually kind of glad KDE4 will be making it into Slackware soon. I actually do like KDE4 and do agree that KDE3 is more solid and stable, but at the same time, Slackware gets to boast about staying up with the times with newer innovations and proves to those who do not believe that Slackware is nothing more than an old-fashioned niche distribution.
Patrick likes KDE4 too from the information I gathered and if there's one person who can tame things when it comes to Linux, look no further than the Slackware creator and the Slackware developers. Judging things by Slackware's past, it's hard to question that Patrick would put something into his distribution that would ripple the waters with regard to stability or flat out break the system. I'm sure Slackware will do what openSUSE did and still have the options available for those who want KDE3 and I'm sure Patrick will support it with Slackware until it reaches its end of life, whenever that is.
31 • KDE 4, Slackware etc (by Sertsw on 2009-01-27 01:10:41 GMT from Australia)
I'm sure by the time KDE4 is made default in Slackware, KDE4 will be stable. Patrick's got a great record in giving us good systems.
Somewhat related; Pardus has also chosen to stay with KDE3 all this time, choosing to delay KDE4 until the 2009 version to be released around April/May probably.
It pays to be conservative, somstimes :)
32 • RE: 27 (by johncoom on 2009-01-27 01:38:08 GMT from Australia)
You wrote: "I live quite far but I would have passed the tip to other people that live in Australia such as the Puppylinux creator or the current community release coordinator."
You probably would never had to tell those above, as all of the AU mailing lists (like the ones the various Australian LUG's send out) have been publishing stuff about LCA for many months now. The call for papers/speakers happened went out ages ago. This happens here every years and linux + open source people know what is happening, and by the attendance it seems many many over sea's people know about it as well.
If the creator of Puppy or its release coordinator wanted to go I am sure that they would have known about the LCA meet many months ago. Who knows they could possibly already at the LCA ?
BTW: The LCA is NOT about any one particular linux distro as such, it covers much more :-) than those sort of narrow interests. :-(
33 • puplets. #21 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-27 02:18:16 GMT from Canada)
Thanks jag for posting that site
61 versions !
Even if most are just a repackaging of APIs, there are some comments referring to structual simplifications.
IIRC puppy was brushed off by the originators of OLPC. A pity as there looks to be a lot of talent at puppy which would have created a functional OS for the OLPC
34 • @davemc: re: teacher (by Mark on 2009-01-27 04:33:11 GMT from Australia)
>Maybe not, but it is true that several individuals harassed that poor ignorant teacher.
How do you figure the teacher was harrassed? The teacher's name and school were not revealed.
>While it is indeed deeply troubling that we have a teacher like that teaching and influencing our kids, it is equally so that we have people in the Linux Community doing what they did.
So what do you imagine they did, and how precisely did it affect an unamed teacher?
>It certainly did no favors to how the public at large views us.
I don't think so. However mis-appropriation of blame, and admonishment for acts never actually done, certainly does.
35 • @elimisteve re: lightweight (by Anonymous on 2009-01-27 04:39:10 GMT from Australia)
> I sure hope it'll be possible to use KDE3 on Slackware still. Slack is the only light-weight major distro, and I worry that will end once KDE4 becomes its default wm...
KDE4 is faster than KDE3 on the same hardware.
This is especially the case now that Nvidia have released the version of their binary driver for Linux that fixes the Nvidia Xrender performance bug, which (with previous versions of the nvidia driver) was the primary reason for instability and slowness of KDE4 on some systems.
Improvements in Qt and in KDE 4.2 have also contributed.
36 • @ 35 KDE 3 vs 4.x 'speed' (by DeniZen on 2009-01-27 11:36:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Elimisteve writes: "KDE4 is faster than KDE3 on the same hardware"
It _seemed_ slower to me, but sooo many variables that may have contributed.
3.5.x usually _seemed_ 'nippy' to me (again, same viariables will exist)
How does one measure the 'speed' of a DE anyway?!
Therories aside , anyone else think that 4.x is nippier compared to 3.5.x in real world use?
On which Distro?
37 • @DeniZen re: KDE 3 vs KDE4 speed. (by Mark on 2009-01-27 11:55:36 GMT from Australia)
>It _seemed_ slower to me, but sooo many variables that may have contributed.
True. Do you have a nVidia card, and if you do, do you have a version of the nVidia driver for Linux earlier than 180.06? If so, you could experience considerable slowdown on KDE4, due to a bug in the nVidia driver.
If your graphics card is working, KDE4 is faster.
>How does one measure the 'speed' of a DE anyway?!
You have never heard of "benchmarking"?
You write a program to simulate keystrokes and mouse motion and clicks, you exercise the DE with it in a defined way (opening menus, resizing windows, moving icons, etc, etc, using the same applications where possible, and equivalent applications where not possible, such as the terminal application and a text editor, of similar size and functionality, in each case) and you measure how many loops it can get through in a set period of time under the different DEs.
38 • RPM/Linus (by Paul B on 2009-01-27 14:22:49 GMT from United States)
I have been self limiting myself to rpm based distros for some time. I have a Lexmark Z816 printer for which RCerqueira created a driver. The driver is rpm based and requires a file from Lexmark that is an rpm. This driver works fine with cups. Cerqueira claims that others have made it work with Ubuntu. My experience has been, that using Alien to convert the rpm to something else, results in dependency hell. I have tried to make this driver work in both Debian, Slackware, and BSD based distros. If I recall correctly, I think I had it working with Ubuntu once, but the system had a ton of Red Hat type libraries to make it work. On one other, I got into a circular dependency that turned into a request to install a library that was already installed. I could not find a way out of that loop.
So Linus Torvalds, I understand, requires that all Linux programs work together. And I see this working fine across window managers. But the distros are not very user friendly with each other. It is not as bad as interfacing with Microsoft, but it seems to be heading that way. Any comments?
39 • Re: 36 & 37 (by kilgoretrout on 2009-01-27 14:31:58 GMT from United States)
I have both mandriva 2009 and fedora 10 installed on two different boxes, one and old laptop with an nvidia 5200go graphics card and 1GB of ram and the other a home built box with an intel 965 motherboard and onboard intel graphics with 2GB of ram. Both those distros come with KDE 4.1.x and on both, KDE4 appears to be slower and less responsive than KDE3, especially with the KDE4 desktop effects turned on. If I turn off the KDE4 desktop effects, the performance seems similar between KDE3 and KDE4. KDE4 still seems to have some annoying lags at times but on some tasks such as bringing up the list of files in a directory when browsing with either dolphin or konqueror, KDE4 is clearly faster.
As far as benchmarking DEs goes, I suppose it's worthwhile to try and give some objective measurement to DE speed and responsiveness, but ultimately the user is the final arbiter on that question because you are talking about a user's subjective experience. If your benchmarks don't agree with that user's experience all you've demonstrated is that your benchmarks don't accurately capture that user's experience.
40 • still less than 10%?? (by jeesh on 2009-01-27 15:05:45 GMT from United States)
Under "Desktop OS":
- Windows: 95%
- Linux: 3%
leaving a few % to margin of error and mac
41 • @ Mark / 37 (by DeniZen on 2009-01-27 18:27:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
>>It _seemed_ slower to me, but sooo many variables that may have >>contributed.
>True. Do you have a nVidia card,
>If your graphics card is working, KDE4 is faster.
Good. I guess I could see it being faster too
>>How does one measure the 'speed' of a DE anyway?!
A rhetorical question I guess. My apols
>You have never heard of "benchmarking"?
> You write a program to simulate keystrokes and mouse motion and clicks > (etc)
Indeed, I got that, thanks.
So, I guess you did all that, and KDE4 results showed it to be 'faster'?
How much faster did your benchmarks show - a noticeable amount?
I like KDE. Looking forward to KDE4 becoming 'everyday usable'.
'Faster' would be a bonus.
42 • re 41, KDE 4.2RC (by rview on 2009-01-27 18:44:17 GMT from United States)
I don't know about faster, but I would say as fast as 3.5.x, at least not noticeably slower.... Perceived, completely not scientific observation, no testing done, on my machine (which is about 2 years old, so not slow). I don't know about older hardware, or non Nvidia cards either, I usually use a lighter gui. I haven't really had any problems with it myself either, using 4.2 for a couple months or so (?) as my only environment. Minor things, but quite rare actually, nothing very annoying, or that caused any problems. 4.2 is a fair jump over 4.1, and as mentioned the new Nvidia drivers make a difference.
43 • kde 4.2 (by rview on 2009-01-27 19:03:27 GMT from United States)
Knew it was coming today, but here's the announcement, unless I missed a mention of it above somewhere.
44 • #34 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-27 20:05:00 GMT from United States)
I thought I would take a different tack and actually research the issues for two minutes instead of verbally assaulting someone on a public forum for daring to hint that Ubuntu may have users with less than perfect social skills. Can't imagine where DaveMC would ever have gotten that sort of idea anyway....
What I found is a mixing of the facts of the two articles...there was indeed an outpouring of ill-manneredness from the Ubuntu users (imagine that!!) but it was towards the student and news station in the first case, not the teacher in the second. Well, that just spoils everything doesn't it?? Here are the links for those of you who are interested in the truth rather than your wooly feel good blankets....
45 • KDE4 on Slack (by M. Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér on 2009-01-27 21:36:50 GMT from Denmark)
KDE4 on Slackware sounds good, but equally interesting is the impending release of Xfce 4.6 - Xfce and Slackware is a powerpacking combination.
46 • Ubuntu Makes Girl Quit School (by Shawn on 2009-01-27 21:58:35 GMT from United States)
I remember reading that article a few weeks ago. Honestly, I can see where the female student was coming from because I remember not so long ago how "different" things were when I was using Linux, but that was back in 2002 and things are a lot different now and a lot friendlier than back then. The student did the right thing in requesting Dell replace Ubuntu with Windows because she wasn't comfortable with it and the last thing you want to do as a student is feel uncomfortable and spend extra time figuring out something new. Dell screwed up by not listening to the customers request and changing out the OS at her request.
What most Ubuntu and Linux users in general were mad at was the fact the original article made it sound like Linux was "too hard" or "inferior" to Windows when the fact was that the student didn't understand Linux, didn't want to and Dell didn't do the correct thing in replacing Ubuntu with Windows. Is it of any surprise in today's world that people go to the media about everything and anything they feel is unfair? It's the way of the world currently, and it's a shame because there were other alternatives and the fault is not or should not be laid on just one person, but the set of events that took place. I'm passionate about Linux and Ubuntu, I'm a fan, not a fanatic. But I know this article did ruffle the feathers of more than just a few people and I can also understand their POV as well. It's just sad that a girl decided she had to quit because she did not want to learn a new OS that is just as functional and would have done what she needed it to do had she known how to do it. It's a shame she gave up.
Ironically, I spent over 5 hours last night writing a paper for my Master's degree using Ubuntu and OpenOffice.org 2.4. I've been using this tandem for a while now. Last weekend I spent over 6 hours trying to remove viruses, trojans and spyware from an Aspire One running XP andit was then I remembered why I didn't use Windows for my important and daily things when I need my computer. Another irony is that my Dell is running Ubuntu to do just that, what are the odds.
47 • KDE 4.1.x vs. 3.5.x (by anon on 2009-01-27 22:06:55 GMT from Norway)
On my homebuilt 64-bit box KDE 4.1.x under Archlinux is clearly snappier than KDE 3.5.x under Bluewhite64, v12.0. Of course, with Archlinux this advantage is more than made up for by the time spent searching for repair tips. With Bluewhite64 nothing goes wrong, but I have to spend considerable time 'rolling my own' new packages. You can never win...
48 • ref46 (by Johnny Bench on 2009-01-28 00:54:06 GMT from United States)
What would have been great on Dell's part was to replace Ubuntu with Windows ME...that would teach her :)
49 • Ref # 4 (by forest on 2009-01-28 01:23:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
Talk about a small world! This time last year I was visiting my coz in Calbooture, no really. He had just started playing around with Ubuntu and that's how I started...he gave me a Compaq (redundant kit from his work) with U 7 (loaded from a freebie mag CDrom) and I lugged this thing through Brisbane passport control, where the smirking xray matey zapped it twice, then through Changi zappers twice.
Got back to Cornwall, switched m/c on and Ubuntu up and working, just like that!
Which proves Ubuntu is xray proof (although I think that M.Faraday might have had a hand in that) and does not get travel sick...and the colony is not strictly an MS stronghold as much as it once was.
My coz now tells me he has gone over almost exclusively to Linux (mainly U???) to run his home network of about 9PCs for media stuff. Works OK thus far.
So now you know you are not alone (cue XFiles music)...
50 • Ref#48 (by Shawn on 2009-01-28 03:36:31 GMT from United States)
Man, I don't think ANYBODY deserves that kind of punishment! LOL Definitely would teach the lesson, though!
51 • AntiX (by Joe Biden on 2009-01-28 11:52:45 GMT from United States)
I've been running the release candidate of AntiX on an old laptop with 256 MB RAM and 1 GHz processor. It hasn't been used much for the past two years, but recently got pulled back into duty.
What shocked me is just how heavy most distros have become (is it because of the kernel, the DEs, or what?) Debian Etch, when it was testing, was lightning fast with a gnome desktop. I could even run Ubuntu 6.06 with a gnome desktop, though it was slow, and Xubuntu was lightning fast.
Tried Lenny gnome, then tried with XFCE, but it required a great deal of work to get to an acceptable speed, and even then I still didn't like it. Xubuntu made Vista look fast.
I installed AntiX, and now I have a fast laptop that does what I need it to do. I can install from the Debian repos. I can pull stuff from Sid as necessary to get the latest versions. It's nice to see that some distro developers put a priority on keeping the hardware requirements low. I love my laptop, so I appreciate the work that went into AntiX. It may not have all the bells and whistles, but doing my work and paying my bills is more important.
As a side note, this laptop came out right at the release of XP. It was my first experience with Microsoft's habit of understating hardware requirements. It never ran XP very well, at least when more than two apps were running alongside the antivirus/antimalware software. All these years later and I can still run a full desktop with the latest apps and kernel by using Linux.
52 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-28 13:56:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Excellent point about the hardware Joe...when we hear about how fast this distro is cf that distro very seldom do we learn of the platform...which renders such comparisons meaningless and verging on drivel.
Also verging on drivel is hearing about some anecdotal stuff (yes I did read the items from the links supplied) apropos a poor woman who has some odd notions of what kids should learn, another poor younger woman who is completely fazed, so tis said...because of the "wrong" OS on her Dell.
We hear a lot of guff from those who ought to know far, far, better than they act that these folk are stupid halfwits, one step below blue green algae. Now as far as I understand these matters the whole ethos is that the planet is to be converted, so to speak, to using Linux, for a variety of excellent reasons.
This involves education, at all levels, to all folk willing to learn...and they might be rather more willing to learn if they were NOT patronised or belittled.
Thankfully there are some very decent, kind souls out there who are happy to devote their spare time and energy in so doing. So PLEASE do not rubbish their efforts...I include both sensei and student.
As an aside, on the education topic, I note many of the detractors seem to be completely unaware of the difference between "your" and "you're"...some of whom are from the much derided Ubuntu users. Of course you will get get the odd bad apple (a pun if you can be arsed...) but let's not forget the amount of work Canonical pus into marketing Ubuntu/GNULinux and vice versa.
So if there is any critiicism that Ubuntu IS the face of Linux, as far as the aforementioned media is concerned , then it's open to all the moaners out there to advertise/market/preach whatever about the merits of their own distro.
Some of the Linux community seem to forget Ubuntu scores by the huge efforts it makes into making the installation an easy as possible, on as many machines/platforms as possible. Not all of us want, can, or, be arsed to configure packages and use command line entry. The OS is simply a means to an end.
Simply because some folk are gifted in the "ways of computers" does does confer censorial rights over those who are not gifted yet want to try another "way" of computing.
53 • same old same old (by J.B. on 2009-01-28 14:23:28 GMT from United States)
Honestly, has anybody here really, REALLY installed a linux on a laptop or other mobile computer and had it actually keep the network connection for more than a few hours?
I have installed some absolutely beautiful distros over time, but only on the PC in the house are they useful; for some reason Windows seems far more reliable on keeping the connection alive and well on our laptops.
I have been to user forums for this issue, and the consensus seems to be that linux does not know how to get it 100% yet. The specific issue has to do with re-establishing in that split second on a dhcp when the address is re-recognized (or something to that effect).
Help with this?
I installed Granular, a very nice, fast little distro, but, alas, connection dropped after about three hours.
Same as the others. :O(
54 • 53 (by Joe Biden on 2009-01-28 15:00:12 GMT from United States)
Must be your hardware. I have Intel, Atheros, Broadcom, and one I don't remember. Two work out of the box with any distro, and I never lose the connection. Just left the laptop with Atheros running all night and had a connection this morning.
The Atheros and Broadcom require some work to set up, depending on the distribution, but I never lose the connection with them either. I did have trouble with the Broadcom running Vista losing the connection, but that is no longer true. Mostly wireless just works these days no matter the OS.
55 • connections in linux (by J.B. on 2009-01-28 16:57:25 GMT from United States)
This laptop has the Realtek 8187b network adaptor, a pita for sure; before this latest kernel it was iffy to even acquire a network connection because all that could be seen was the Marvell ethernet adaptor so the wifi adaptor was never listed in wifi radar or whatever networking tools I was trying to use.
Ndiswrapper helped with some of the distros, but the connection would be weak and drop off altogether at some point.
Now it connects readily in some distros with the evolved kernel, but as I say it lasts a few hours at most.
The Realtek 8187b is an internal usb, so it cannot be taken out.. I'm wondering if I can go with one of those plug-in usb "dongles" or whatever they're called. ??
56 • Re:55 (by PaulB on 2009-01-28 17:52:32 GMT from United States)
I have a Tosiba laptop with a Realtek 8187b (usb built in) that did not work with Mandriva 2008. I plugged in a Netgear Ma111, and it worked just fine. The latest version of Mandriva works with rt8187b. So, I no longer need the Netgear dongle. But, it worked when I needed it.
57 • Granular (based on Mandriva) networking (by J.B. on 2009-01-28 19:19:46 GMT from United States)
- Rtl 8187b works as a connection for a few hours, maximum, then drops
- Newly purchased Belkin "N" Wireless USB network adaptor not seen at all by Granular. :O(
58 • Granular based on Mandriva (by Anonymous on 2009-01-28 19:54:47 GMT from Canada)
The fact that Granular is based on PCLinuxOS which is based on Mandriva is not relevant. Maybe Granular uses an old kernel that Mandriva used years ago. It is absolutely possible that Mandriva 2009 will work fine with your network card whilst Granular doesn't. The newer the kernel, the better chance to have your network card work properly.
59 • I'll try the new Mandriva 2009 (by J.B. on 2009-01-28 20:48:37 GMT from United States)
Hope it works.. one reason is that way back a million years ago Mandrake was the very first linux I tried.
It was great, but I got mad at the ugly fonts I didn't know how to change and went back to Windows 98. (puts on asbestos pants in anticipation of flames)
60 • Granular and Mandriva (by J.B. on 2009-01-28 20:57:26 GMT from United States)
By the way, the reason I said "based on Mandriva" in that post title was because I noticed in Granular most configuration programs have the "drake" suffix.
It must be relevant, very relevant as a matter of fact.
Now I'm wondering why you needed to say it is not relevant, although I do know that the kernel is likely the main issue in my particular struggle for reliable wireless.
I don't want to deal with distro loyalties or wars or whatever; that pollutes this forum big time. Also I don't care what distro works in the end, I really don't. The only distros I stay away from are those that spout political stuff on their websites or those that express negativities about other distros.
61 • re 60 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-28 21:44:42 GMT from Canada)
When I said that is not relevant that Granular is based on Mandriva I didn't mean anything bad regarding Granular. Granular may be a good distro. I can't say a bad thing about it because I haven't tried it and probably never will. The problem with small distros in general is that they don't have the manpower to package the latest software. You never get recent versions. By the time they package an application it is most likely outdated. With big distros you get the very latest software. What I like about Mandriva in particular is that it is a very modular distro. You install only what you need. You can install Mandriva with any desktop environment or window manager you like (KDE, Gnome, Xfce, Lxde, you name it). Mandriva can be as light or as heavy as you want it to be (the same can be said about any major distro I believe). So why do I need Granular (or any so-called light distro)?
62 • Hardware compatibility (by KimTjik on 2009-01-28 21:46:48 GMT from Sweden)
- Rtl 8187b works as a connection for a few hours, maximum, then drops
- Newly purchased Belkin "N" Wireless USB network adaptor not seen at all by Granular. :O("
A good place to check whether the device is supported or not: http://linux-wless.passys.nl/
For a first time user of Linux I understand that this might be a less welcome surprise, but this is the reality of how well vendors of wireless devices support Linux. I recently saw a good article covering the subject about NDIS wrapper and how it actually is counter-productive even though it initially was a good initiative. For the already "experienced" Linux users who's ready for shopping it would be better to choose supported devices and hence send the right signal to vendors.
63 • @2 @6 @14 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-01-28 22:02:14 GMT from Canada)
Thanks to Gigi and Anonymous. :)
Caraibes: you should read my blog. :) I switched to F10 as my main boot a few nights ago, I have both F10 and Mandriva Cooker installed (but haven't actually booted Cooker since). Linux is pretty much Linux - I had to figure out how Fedora handles the NVIDIA driver and find a package for my wireless card driver (both turn out to be in RPMFusion) and learn my way around yum, but that's pretty much it. Sent in a few bug reports / patches for a few issues I found.
I do need to wangle the privileges to fix up Fedora's opensync packages, though...
64 • #61 Why not use a small distro? (by anticapitalista on 2009-01-28 22:56:53 GMT from Greece)
"The problem with small distros in general is that they don't have the manpower to package the latest software. You never get recent versions."
This is not necessarily true. A distro based on Debian Testing or Debian sid, for example, will, can and does provide recent versions even with limited personpower (why 'man'power?) ;)
One big advantage of a small distro is that the maintainer has already configured it to look 'nice' and work well, thus saving a lot of time/effort and possible headache for the user.
65 • re 64 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-28 23:55:19 GMT from Canada)
One big advantage of a small distro is that the maintainer has already configured it to look 'nice' and work well, thus saving a lot of time/effort and possible headache for the user
Thanks but the main reason I use Linux is precisely because I refuse to let the others decide what's good for me. I'd rather spend time/effort and have it my way.
Call it personpower if you like. Sounds good to me.
66 • re #65 (by anticapitalista on 2009-01-29 00:11:49 GMT from Greece)
"Thanks but the main reason I use Linux is precisely because I refuse to let the others decide what's good for me."
Well that is a huge advantage of Linux over other Os's. But I would still say that a smaller OS gives you more freedom to choose than a full blown one.
And, let us not forget that even though we think we are totally in control of what we install for our linux, it is still contrained by the type of linux we use, the kernels available etc etc.
67 • TUXMACHINES.ORG (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 00:44:29 GMT from United States)
any one knows what happen to this site, I cant get in to
68 • 65 (by Joe Biden on 2009-01-29 01:21:09 GMT from United States)
"Thanks but the main reason I use Linux is precisely because I refuse to let the others decide what's good for me."
That's all fine and dandy, but if you are like me and don't have sufficient expertise in setting up a distro so that it is lightweight, you're in trouble. I agree with the comment that light distros are easier to customize.
For me, it's nice to have AntiX provide a reasonable set of applications, and a really nice-looking desktop. I like to customize, but even if I had a few hundred hours, which I don't, it wouldn't look as nice as what anticapitalista has done.
69 • re 68 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 02:39:22 GMT from Canada)
I don't have a problem with the fact that such lightweight distros exist. However, if you don't do distro hopping forever then after let's say one year of using the same distro you get the expertise to customize the install. I mean distro hopping is good up to a certain point. After that you should be able to identify the one distro that suits you the best. Once you settle on one distro, after using it for a while you get the skills to customize the install. It's not rocket science.
70 • re 67 (by rview on 2009-01-29 04:46:50 GMT from United States)
Technical problems, fixed in a while/few days, forget where I saw the details.
71 • #61 Why not use a small distro? (by DG on 2009-01-29 09:28:09 GMT from Netherlands)
"The problem with small distros in general is that they don't have the manpower to package the latest software. You never get recent versions."
But sometimes a small distro (a) provides a framework for you to build on rather than a fixed
set of packages, and (b) allows you to add/update packages to suit your needs.
Have a look at Lunar Linux. You install a minimal system from source. If you want a desktop
then install XOrg7 and whatever desktop environment you want. If you want a server, don't.
After that you are free to install whatever you want. If the package exists in the "moonbase"
it probably has some sensible defaults. You can override these if you want. If the package
is out of date, you can make a local copy and update it. If the package is missing you can
make a local version (and then submit it to the devs for inclusion in the "moonbase").
If you aren't into building from source, then Lunar won't be for you, but most people who
come to the IRC channel are pretty positive about how flexible it is.
Disclaimer: I do hang out on the #lunar IRC channel, and make minor contributions
72 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-29 11:54:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Reference the comments on wifi connection.
I wonder if it would be at all useful for folk to mention the chip set used in their device. And of course whether it worked with a particular distro, specifically driver packages.
It must be common knowledge that there many more devices than chip sets so if "one" chip set is compatible with a distro it is not unreasonable to expect similar devices with same chip set to work too.
Some distros provide very comprehensive lists of drivers installed [in them so to speak] so when a comment arises apropos wifi devices it would be useful to know the chip set and driver. it would then be a matter of moments to discover if your hardware would work.
I wish I had known a tad more about this before I bought a draft n usb dongle (TP-Link), the laptop knew there was a device plugged in by virtue of the service led coming on...thereafter nothing.
I blush to admit this but it was only after parting with the cash that I tried to find a driver for said dongle (in U8.1)...so now I have a new, almost useless paperweight sitting on the desk...until a driver becomes available.
There may be a driver in cyberspace and if anyone can suggest a tutorial site on how to configure/install the device driver...
I bought the new kit owing to one in use failing from overheating, (I think), and the plastic body being made from recycled condoms. By contrast the TP-Link kit is a beautifullly made device.
The old one was an Edimax unit using the rt6 drivers (if memory serves). This unit was recognised the instant it was plugged in and within seconds a right click on the network manager icon displayed the house network, thereafter a request for the WEP and we were online...in less than a minute, no really.
The Edimax dongle worked very well indeed, but as mentioned above got very hot so eventually I cracked open the casing and this helped to keep the chips cool(er). I might suggest that the heat build up in some devices might, repeat might be a contributary factor in the service performance/life. We all know how fussy processors are when it come to their environment.
Earlier comments referred to losing service after a few hours or so. After you have checked for overheating problems it might be useful to consider where you site the dongle or aerial. I would suggest a usb extension cable is a must. I found too that in my particular arrangement, where the wifi router is not in the same room, the signal was affected by people movement.
There are some excellent sites, run by radio hams, in particular from the US.These hams are interested in computing too, and have some excellent tips, hints and aerial/antenna designs for optimising the connection.
The "Pringles" tube aerial is but one of the devices and by all accounts is made for the job owing to the physical size being ideal for the 2.4 GHz frequency and consequent wavelength...the bonus being you can scoff the crisps as you cobble the kit together.
73 • openSUSE with ext4 too (by apokryphos on 2009-01-29 13:21:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
openSUSE will support ext4 too (see https://features.opensuse.org/305691 ) in openSUSE 11.2.
74 • @post:72 by forest (by J.B. on 2009-01-29 13:22:44 GMT from United States)
That's pretty close to my situation, only it is a Belkin USB "dongle." Won't be seen by Granular, let alone work. :O(
I ran to the store and got it yesterday after a suggestion here that my internal USB Realtek 8187b might be the culprit in my neverending angst with dropped network connections in linux distros (never happens with Vista).
So, back to square one.. the suggested driver for the Belkin (even suggested by Microsoft) won't install in linux, or at least in Granular.
I'll give the newest Mandriva a shot.
75 • Knoppix 6.0 Adriane (by Joe W on 2009-01-29 14:15:26 GMT from United States)
Horrible!. I tried it last night on my laptop (Dell P4 1.6GZ 1.5GB). Loud and obnoxious voice reports every move, every click, every icon touched by the mouse. I couldn't find a way to turn it off. I did eventually turn down the volume (but no mute option).
My experience with earlier versions of Knoppix has been excellent, but this voice is unexpected and completely unwelcome. I didn't see any alternative versions nor any info on starting or using w/o that voice.
Started up fine and the various programs probably work great, but I just couldn't get beyond that loud and obnoxious voice. Anyone have a better experience?
76 • re 73 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 14:42:06 GMT from Canada)
So what? All distros either support ext4 already or will support it with the next version.
77 • re 73 continued (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 14:46:55 GMT from Canada)
The link you provided requires a user name and password. I guess ClosedSuse is a more appropriate name. Why in the name of hell would they require a username and a password?
78 • RE: 75, 71, 61 (by Notorik on 2009-01-29 14:56:54 GMT from United States)
Take a look at Wolvix. Version 2.0 is coming out soon.
79 • re 75 (by tywen on 2009-01-29 15:04:30 GMT from Norway)
To turn off screen reader in Knoppix 6.0 press capslock+space to bring up Orca menu, then dissable speech from there.
80 • #53 & 54 - Network connections, #55-Realtek drivers (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-29 15:13:04 GMT from United States)
In response to #53, yes, network connections generally stay up indefinitely in Linux. Servers maintain their network connections for months or even years without a reboot. Home and office machines can stay up for days without any network issues at all, both wired and wireless. I thing "Joe Biden" hit the nail on the head in post #54: it very much depends on hardware and the quality of the drivers available for that hardware.
#55 is also correct that Realtek drivers, including the rtl8187 driver, are notoriously bad under Linux. The Sylvania g Netbook (original version) I had for a little while had a Realtek 8187 chipset. The problem is that the native Linux Realtek drivers but they are truly awful (as in limited range if they work at all). Since the native Realtek driver is present as a kernel module Linux loads that and assumes that ndiswrapper isn't needed. I saw this with the rtl8187 driver in Ubuntu, gOS, and Vector Linux.
The solution is to blacklist the rtl8xxx driver (where xxx is the number of the driver actually being loaded). Then you should be able to use ndiswrapper normally. This worked well for me in all three distros and gave me a solid wireless connection with excellent signal strength.
I fully realize that a Windows driver and ndiswrapper is a less than optimal solution but you've got to go with what works. Hopefully better Realter drivers will emerge eventually.
81 • No subject (by just_me on 2009-01-29 16:29:37 GMT from Spain)
Really glad to see there's a new Knoppix version available. That was my 1st contact to gnu/linux and I think many others' too.
I'm also looking forward to the new Wolvix release and check it's as good as people say.
82 • good dww, lame comments (by arno911 on 2009-01-29 17:06:51 GMT from Germany)
and Dick Cheney is Joe Biden now?
should have named himself Hillary...
Mandriva - (still a) good distribution, and a "bad company"? mandriva dropped some valueable contributors, which will be working for redhat in future. poor! how many mandy users will leave the boat? ;) still unclear, what the company wants to do now, and how. did they say anything? except for the marketing/management-style words of the boss? (that was kind of fun to read, like "how can i fill 10 lines with substantially nothing" a must read, imho :)
will they concentrate on business and government customers? again, what will the community think, I see some clouds on the horizon ;)
and when will be spring in debian? i hate this freeze
83 • Re #82, waiting for Debian (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 18:21:29 GMT from Switzerland)
@82: What are you waiting for, exactly? If you want Lenny, do a minimal install from the latest Etch install images and set your sources.list to refer to Lenny. The do a system update and you're running Lenny. Lenny has been running well on this desktop machine for over a year now.
84 • dimdim (by Jairo Mayorga on 2009-01-29 18:24:03 GMT from Colombia)
Comment deleted (spam).
85 • About Wolvix 2.0 (by IMQ on 2009-01-29 18:45:00 GMT from United States)
I keep seeing Wolvix 2.0 mentioned but so far I haven't been to locate the beta/rc copy for a test drive.
Is there going to be beta/rc release for public testing or all the testings being done internally?
Thanks in advance for any info.
86 • Re: #77 "ClosedSuSE" (by Some Hoser on 2009-01-29 21:37:58 GMT from Canada)
FTA: "Please login or register to edit this feature."
Remember: Alcohol can impair perception, and some wise man said something in red about keeping your mouth rather than appear the fool. Don't drink and post, eh?
I enjoyed the convention coverage, thanks, although a clear pic of the "Tuz" icon (or the PNG itself) would have been nice.
87 • re 86 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 22:14:55 GMT from Canada)
The page has changed, they changed the permissions, it was not possible to view the content before. I was not drunk. Still ClosedSuse remains a more suitable name for that distro.
88 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2009-01-29 22:39:38 GMT from United States)
And drunken fool remains a suitable description for you.
89 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-29 23:27:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just read the responses to wifi drop outs topic...er um only just thought about this, blushing beetroot...Perhaps "we" should look at problem the OTHER way round...ie, is the ROUTER ok?
Simple test if you have another wifi module or another router or if you can borrow one or t'other from a mate. Job done.
I am ignoring the roaming aspect owing to folk stating the connection broke off after 3 hours or so...I assuming folk were not sitting in hotspot for this amount of time?
And whilst on topic...the wifi router I connect to slaves off another wifi router but via cat5 cable. On a good propagation day I can sometimes pick up the primary wifi signal, at low level, and that is a good 40 ft away with two stone walls in the way. (One wall is over 4ft thick...old cottage). The wifi card is 802.b/g, not MIMO. I do have a MIMO lapto PC wotsit card and that is very fussy where it is situated. The problem is tho' I cannot reproduce the effects reliably from one day to another.
The moral is, aerial/antenna design, practice whatever is not a science, it's an art.
Quick aside...what does work very well is the power plug kit, just make sure you are on same ring cct, although the kit will work across the consumer unit/switch box/breaker unit onto other rings but not as reliably.
Apologies for slight deviation off topic.
90 • RE #80: Realtek 8187 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-30 01:52:10 GMT from United States)
I have the same problem and I got one use out of ndiswrapper. The older driver seems to work better and not mess up audio.
Especially if you have on board realtek audio too.
91 • @post#80 by Caitlyn (plus #90 by Anonymous) (by J.B. on 2009-01-30 11:49:02 GMT from United States)
Caitlyn said, "The solution is to blacklist the rtl8xxx driver (where xxx is the number of the driver actually being loaded). Then you should be able to use ndiswrapper normally. This worked well for me in all three distros and gave me a solid wireless connection with excellent signal strength."
I never thought of actually blacklisting the original driver.. I'll try that and use ndiswrapper (I've always thought of ndiswrapper as a "workaround," inferior to using the "real" driver).
Special measures are needed to deal with this Realtek problem, I sure will try that.
Thank you for that, you too, "anonymous" in post 90.
92 • Mandriva (by J.B. on 2009-01-30 15:10:07 GMT from United States)
The latest Mandriva is an alpha. I don't think I want to try that; I'll wait for a beta.
93 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-30 15:36:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
Take a tip and wait for the distribution release, LOL. Probably the best chance of a result...you just have to wait for the final polish.
94 • re 92 and 93 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-30 16:00:08 GMT from Canada)
I think the best approach is to install two distros with dual boot. I have Fedora 10 which is stable and I have Mandriva 2009.1 alpha 2. I mostly use Mandriva but if my system ever gets unusable then I can always go back to the stable Fedora. So far Mandriva seems to work fine. I have the latest KDE 4.2 and ext4.
My advice to you is make some room for Mandriva 2009.1 and dual boot it with your current distro. This way you loose nothing, except a few GB off your hard-drive.
95 • dual booting (by J.B. on 2009-01-30 18:18:44 GMT from United States)
I'll not do that; it's just not my cup of tea. I like the idea of having one OS per hard drive. What I really want to end up with is just linux on this laptop. Reliable, solid and long-term.
Ain't happened yet, but I know it will.
96 • re 95 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-30 19:11:34 GMT from Canada)
Well, it was just an advice. Do whatever you think is good for you. I'll give another advice. Keep your current distro and identify those distros that tend to include the latest kernel. Whenever they release a new version grab the live CD and try it live. If you are satisfied with it, go ahead and install it. To my knowledge Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu (there may be others as well) always feature the latest kernel.
97 • @post#96 (by J.B. on 2009-01-30 21:29:39 GMT from United States)
(we'll get "this is a linux discussion forum, not for your individual problems" post any minute now)
I've been trying live CDs for a long time. It's fun, but also frustrating with this particular hardware. I'll know better what to get next laptop purchase.
98 • Intel Pushes New Operating System For Netbooks (by Filozofer king on 2009-01-31 05:40:13 GMT from Canada)
Hi folx :)
Apparently Intel is actively and very seriously funding and developing a new operating system specifically for netbooks. And to the delight of millions of computer users tired of Micro$oft Windoaz and MacOS(yes, that's right MacOS or JobOS, too), this intel's new operating system is based on Linux, which isn't very good either, but nevertheless not as evil and as bad as Windoaz and MacJobOS
According to wired.com , "The alpha version of Moblin, an open source-based Linux operating system designed specifically for netbooks, is out".
So, let's download, try and tinker with it in the hope of, finally, creating a descent operating system that actually help people, instead of rubbing them off their wallets and sanity.
Anyway, if you're interested to learn more about it, click on the following link http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/intel-bets-on-m.html
99 • Knoppix 6 -Adraine (by RollMeAway on 2009-01-31 06:02:42 GMT from United States)
This release is for blind computer users.
I believe the founders wife is blind, and this is to honor and recognize
the neglected blind people that would like to use computers.
Close your eyes and try to use it.
Then say your prayers.
100 • knoppix6 (by noname on 2009-01-31 12:31:20 GMT from Australia)
To the people who are having trouble with knoppix. Just type knoppix at the grub promt and normal knoppix boots. Adrianne is the default but knoppiix is there as well.
101 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-31 13:12:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for very helpful hint. I tried Knoppix on two machines and got a different start "page" each time...no I don't know why either, LOL.
102 • moblin (by techqc on 2009-01-31 13:25:48 GMT from Indonesia)
Just came back from buying a MID and went into immersion with the MOBLIN news, will try to load the live version. Seems like it deserves a place in Distrowatch - if it really works as well as said in a few spots, it will soon be a popular alternative to the crippleware that comes preloaded into the MIDS.
I've got Midinux on my MID and it is a waste of bytes unless all you want is a browser/alarmclock/pocketvideo paperweight.
The hardware is amazing but the OS is for people who don't care about usability.
Ok,just downloaded and punched in the MOBLIN Live
( http://repo.moblin.org/moblin/releases/test/alpha1/images/moblin-netbook-core-alpha1.iso )
and it boots as advertised on my AIGO P8860
no touch screen and I cannot find anything like a keyboard-mouse
or even any method of tabbing across the desktop yet,
so I guess I will need to do some hacking
but the screen display loaded perfectly and that is a very good indicator
this can be adopted
103 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-31 19:01:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Stuck it on usb stick...to my astonishment (after changing boot up sequence) it loaded and was reasonably fast...ish. On internet with minimum of fuss but then it was a bit slow surfing.( Will have a go later to see if contention ratio is more in my favour.)
One problem, to me of course, despite following the instructions, is I have not yet sussed saving files on said usb stick.
This method of using Linux is quite a good facility but your bios has to be able to select booting off usb stick...so you should be good for machines after 2002. Certainly a leg up from booting from CDrom, and when I get the file saving sorted...
104 • Wireless Drivers (by Fry popped pudding plops at 2009-02-01 04:15:30 GMT from United States)
I'm still looking for a distro besides backtrack to detect the zd1211b chipset. A computer is just not a computer without the tangy zip of internet
105 • PClinuxOS 2008 GNOME (by capricornus on 2009-02-01 07:24:14 GMT from Belgium)
Beware, users, of the massive update: your GNOME-system will be afflicted. On the forum, the advice is given to enter terminal as root and first run "apt-get update", and then "apt-get dist-upgrade". Reboot and do the same again (!). Reboot. It should work now.
106 • @104 (by Adam Williamson on 2009-02-01 07:26:06 GMT from Canada)
I have a USB wireless adapter which uses zd1211rw. It works out of the box on Mandriva - I just took it out of the packaging, plugged it in, entered the SSID name through the network config wizard and it connected. Not sure if that's the same as 'zd1211b', though.
107 • PClinuxOS 2008 GNOME result... (by capricornus on 2009-02-01 08:05:55 GMT from Belgium)
...the GNOME GUI will reappear and everything works fine, BUT: you will not be able to restart or shutdown. Very interesting. But not fantastic.
108 • wireless (@#106) (by J.B. on 2009-02-01 13:07:47 GMT from United States)
Adam, your, "Not sure if it's the same 'zd1211b' .." is a good point: I have seen it pointed out more than once in various distro forums that a given model name and number does not necessarily mean that two of those devices are exactly the same. Belkin, Linksys and others retain those names and numbers as they change the devices over time, thus a behavior or fix for one may not be the same as for another of the same nomenclature.
I don't like that at all. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see accurate documentation on hardware we purchase, including a change in model number corresponding to changes in the device.
109 • No subject (by forest on 2009-02-01 14:31:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
It can get worse, allegedly a draft n wifi usb dongle I have exists in two versions cos of different chip sets. I recall the company rep got across that discussion and even he was confused...the discussion never did resolve the prob but learned opinion had it that one version was for China's domestic market and t'other for export...(can only surmise the manufacturer made so many units he needed so many chipsets so he had to source them as best he could from wherever, so to speak...)
The catalogue pics show two identical looking devices, both described, word for word, as doing exactly the same job....which makes it a trifle difficult for A.N.Other to come up with a suitable Linux driver...needless to relate the only drivers supplied were for those other OS which dare not speak their names...in polite company...on this forum.
One can only hope Linux gets better press for the domestic users and manufacturers suitable write drivers...and send 'em straight to a suitable repository!!!
110 • "grub loading error 18" frozen (by Todd R. on 2009-02-01 19:29:33 GMT from United States)
LOL.. my dreams of a new Mint 6 on our old Gateway 2000 PC were dashed this morning.
The install seemed to go ok, and the live CD worked fine.
But after the install, when I tried the first re-boot, our hearts sunk when thmachine froze on a black "dos" screen with the text, "Grub loading .. error 18."
It's a 160 GB hard drive, so I'm guess the some linux distros still have a problem with big hard drives.
111 • No subject (by forest on 2009-02-01 20:28:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re # 110
Error 18 is, I gather, a hint your BIOS is unhappy with the size...but that's women for you...I believe you would be wise to google up the prob and you'll find a suggestion about getting into the BIOS and selecting "normal" reference the h/d characteristics. It may not actually be "normal" tho' but you'll find out for sure following your investigations...
I can only suggest that, owing to your changing the h/d to a size the BIOS can't live with, you try a smaller capacity.
A word of caution, sometimes, when searching the help forums it can be like pushing water uphill...
112 • Mint forums (by Todd R. on 2009-02-01 20:55:37 GMT from United States)
There are error code problems reported there, and varying success on solving them.
I'm going to go ahead and reinstall on an 80 Gb. That OS looks very good, especially for our ancient 1.2 Mhz slow-poke processor and FX5200 nVidia graphics card.
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