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1 • First poster :) (by Jesper Sandström at 2009-01-12 09:24:27 GMT from Sweden)
Just had to write, if nothing else for the satisfying feeling of coming first. Good to see that Lenny is finally coming out, providing the most rock solid OS there is for anyone interested.
2 • Whatdayaknow... (by Woodstock69 on 2009-01-12 09:38:32 GMT from Papua New Guinea)
Hmm. first on this week? Cool. Great interview with Paul Sherman ala Absolute linux. Sounds what I'm looking for. Has taken a week to download. And then what happens?! A security update! Oh well, here goes another week of downloading.....
Oh, what!? I've been beaten by Jesper ?! Damn. that will teach me to read the articles and THEN comment!....
3 • Best KDE4? (by Douglas on 2009-01-12 09:52:58 GMT from Germany)
Just to get off the subject of being first and to start something useful, at least to me, what is the current best KDE4 distro? Best, as in most up to date and working well and stable.
I just installed Kubuntu 9.04. It sucks but then it is alpha so what can you really say? It did do something that I have not seen before, it got the settings for all the hardware right, even my Fujitse German wide cheep monitor that nothing before has set up right. It might even be good if it did not take 10 seconds to react to a mouse click. It might be the it is using the NV driver and that is super slow??
I also can't find a way to get the Nvidia drivers to work but I am sure they will fix that by beta time.
So thoughts?
BTW, nice interview.
4 • Absolute v. Vector (by elimisteve at 2009-01-12 10:45:50 GMT from United States)
Could someone please compare/contrast Absolute Linux with VectorLinux? Vector is the fastest distro I've ever used, but how is the hardware detection? Better or worse than Absolute's? Any recommendations?
Kubuntu is starting to feel too bloated for me. I like KDE 3.5.x, and I like all Debian-based distros... Which Debian-based distro do you think is fastest? sidux?
5 • kde4 (by riklaunim on 2009-01-12 10:56:00 GMT from Poland)
I'm using KDE3, and I won't go to KDE4 now, or in the near future - as I don't see any advantages of doing so... Archlinux has kdemod-legacy with KDE 3.5, and Gentoo allows choosing version of packages you want - also KDE 3.5.10 :)
6 • Absolute (by Caraibes on 2009-01-12 11:05:55 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I enjoyed reading the Absolute interview.
That project is nice, and Paul Sherman strikes me as being very realistic. I am also a PC repair guy, so I can relate to his project.
2 things are really missing from Absolute as of today:
-Locales (needed for having a complete system in French or Spanish for instance)
-An easy way to share files between PC's over a home network (such as Nautilus' connect to server)
Other than that, I think one can find Absolute very useful, good job, Paul !
7 • Another great Issue (by Travis on 2009-01-12 11:17:43 GMT from United States)
Another great issue there. Thanks for doing this!
8 • Where did Jibbed come from? (by UZ64 on 2009-01-12 11:36:18 GMT from United States)
I pay regular attention to DWW, yet somehow, I missed the announcement of Jibbed--a NetBSD, Xfce-based live CD--being added to the database. Well, until it hit the DW main page. After visiting its "details" page, I immediately tried it out.
My opinion? Aside from the fact that it appears to still be in the proof-of-concept stage, with very few available programs, it's incredibly fast and uses what is possibly my favorite desktop environment (speed is one of my favorite aspects of desktop environments). If they add a better selection of applications on the CD, it'll easily become the best NetBSD-based distribution I've ever tried (admittedly--not that there are many, the BSDs could use some more variation/distros IMO...).
If they create a nice GUI installer, which they have planned, it'll make for one of the easiest NetBSD installs ever (assuming, of course, they value and are aiming for ease of installation). I really hope this NetBSD spinoff takes off... as it is, it's incredibly light and fast. It just needs more packages, and possible an installer later on. Some great stuff... I love it. Even better, would be this "distro" sparking a bunch of similar NetBSD-, FreeBSD-, and OpenBSD-based spinoffs.
On Absolute, I admit... while it's not exactly for me (I want power, even if it means slowing my poor old 1.7GHz P4 with only 256MB RAM machine down), I love projects like this, which aim to be as small and fast as possible. I always have an ISO of it on my hard drive to play around with in a virtual machine, just to see how it's going. If I could get my hands on a machine of extremely low specs, you could be damn well sure I'd put Absolute on it. :)
Keep it up, Paul... you've got a great distro. One of the very few installable distros based on Slack configured with IceWM... one of the fastest window managers around. (I'd actually like to see *more* distros based on IceWM, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Openbox, Xfce, Lxde, etc... but unfortunately, they're mostly rare.)
9 • elimisteve and a quick debian OS (by capricornus on 2009-01-12 12:03:15 GMT from Netherlands)
I like sidux but never keep it on my pc since I experience it as a rigid system.
I recently started to appreciate AntiX 8, it finally does what I want, even on an older pc, and it does it sufficiently quickly.
10 • Ansvers.,. (by Godhack on 2009-01-12 12:18:27 GMT from Norway)
Fastest Debian based is Debian or Xubuntu.
good with Kde4 today is openSuse maybe Fedora.
11 • debian install rather than debian live? (by gnomic on 2009-01-12 13:16:27 GMT from New Zealand)
Under Miscellaneous News. the headline refers to new Debian live images; this should perhaps read install images? The link points to install CDs/DVDs which in Debian's case are still just that I believe, they don't boot into a live desktop. The Debian live project (live.debian.net) still appears to be Intel/AMD only. We don't want those who are still waiting for that elusive live Debian for PPC getting over excited :-
12 • KDE4 (by Douglas E on 2009-01-12 13:22:54 GMT from Germany)
Post 5, yes, as I see it kde4 is not up to production standards and on my real computer I use and love KDE3. But that was not the question.
I know that KDE4 needs work but it is the next thing and it pays to watch it grow up and maybe even help push it in the direction that we would like to see it go. A small push now is worth a 1000 pushes 5 years from now as far as changing the basic system and getting it headed the way you might like it to be.
DEK
13 • Re #3 Best KDE (by Stu on 2009-01-12 13:26:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Best KDE:
Well, Fedora 10 is working pretty well for me at the moment (kde-redhat has the 4.2 betas in its testing repo too if that's for you). Although you may have some issues with pulseaudio
openSUSE is supposed to be pretty nice but they customise a hell of a lot (and there's the Ms deal if that's an issue from your point of view)
Mandriva perhaps?
Or Archlinux if you don't mind lots of manual setting up (fast and stable but you'll need to fiddle with some config files)
14 • AntiX 8 and Mepis 8 (by Brainwave Holiday on 2009-01-12 13:41:30 GMT from United States)
Re #9 :
Upon installation does AntiX 8 or Mepis 8 have Wincodecs32 ready to go or at least in
the repository ready for immediate installation. Last time i checked, this was not the case.
Of course i proceeded to wipe the partition because i do not waste my time with
distros that do not want to be in the upper echelon.
15 • absolute (by pardususe on 2009-01-12 13:55:59 GMT from Poland)
maybe it is good - i dont know never use it. But - dear lord it looks so ugly! Worse than mac os 9. Really man - you want to make quite popularo distro then work on the GUI!
Simple also can be pretty - and look at start button in absolute it looks like some 5 year old painted it in paint.
16 • @Douglas (Comment 3) (by Sokraates on 2009-01-12 14:17:00 GMT from Austria)
It's extremely hard to tell, which distribution offers the best KDE4-desktop to date. In my opinion, the all offer roughly the same at the moment. Apart from the usual differences in the applications provided, the KDE4-desktops themselves are quite similar to one another.
Opensuse has tried something new with their theme (which I consider ugly but that's my taste) and by backporting some important new features from KDE 4.2.
Though now that KDE 4.2 RC1 is about to be released and all the major distros offer official packages, by the end of January (when KDE 4.2 is out) all KDE4-distros will once again look the same (assuming that users of KDE4 will upgrade ASAP, which I'd recommend).
KDE 4.2 is a catch-up release that was focused on bringing back missing features from KDE 3.5 and removing regressions (according to Aaron Seigo). And this shows (Alexander Dymo even went so far as calling it the true KDE 4.0; http://adymo.blogspot.com/2009/01/kde4-review-from-inside-out-part-1.html).
In any case KDE 4.2 will provide a stable and usable base, on which distros will once again build and develop their own ideas. So instead of having to backport stuff to make KDE4 work, they can now concentrate on integration and polishing.
In the case of Kubuntu, starting with Jaunty they plan to develop ideas for their own themes, apps etc once again (sorry, I can't find the blueprint).
Summarized, today KDE4-distros are extremely similar but this year we should see some work to distinguish themselves from one another.
However your problem will probably not be fixed by any distro but only by nvidia itself (if my ATI X300 is any indication, where desktop effects work great with the open source drivers but there are issues with the catalyst driver).
17 • OpenSuse (by 123 on 2009-01-12 14:30:50 GMT from United States)
Is a Great distro, only I wish it was based on DEBIAN
18 • LXDE on Debian Lenny (by Dr.Saleem Khan on 2009-01-12 14:47:57 GMT from Pakistan)
I am happy with this news, I test installed LXDE on Lenny with mini net install iso many times but somehow the system would be broken here and there so LXDE would not work as desired.
In the chaos of KDE 3 & 4 LXDE is really a good alternate that really works. GNOME is not for me, KDE4 is vista clone and I dont feel at home with it.
LXDE is not perfect either, still developing, but I feel at home with it and kde3, but kde3 on debian comes with meta packages which makes system bloated , obese, menu cluttered and grossly ove rdonewhich makes me un easy and sick, so lxde looks better alternate.
I am sure many would benefit from this new entry into debian.
19 • Re: 18 (by Eyes-Only on 2009-01-12 15:26:40 GMT from United States)
I tend to agree with Dr. Khan here. Parsix user myself, though I have six distros installed on this rig, and if their repos have LXDE in them then it gets installed and used as my "default desktop". If not, then I can usually finagle my way around to getting it installed as it's THAT EASY. :)
Just enough control to get someone new to Linux up and running, feeling comfortable with their machine, and yet not getting in the way as so many other desktops do for those, like me, who wish to fool around with straight configuration files. Life is good!
BTW: Loved the interview with Paul Sherman this week and have tried Absolute a few times myself. To the person who mentioned how terrible IceWM looked by default in Absolute, I'd like to mention that it's just a theme---and themes are the easiest thing to change in that WM. You can also find hundreds of great ones on the net. :)
As for best-looking KDE4? Anyone taken a look at the new Berry 0.94? I know it's based off from F10 but the creator just may be right this time around in his claim of it being "The most beautiful desktop OS in the world." Of course I do have a soft spot of cats/kittens. ;) On a serious note, however, I did find his KDE4 most usuable for MY needs. Probably not for anyone else's here though...
Amicalement/Cheers!
Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
20 • Austrumi's Desktop (by Kaiz at 2009-01-12 15:39:04 GMT from United States)
I hear you re. Absolute's gui... but if you want an incredibly -fast- Linux OS with in my view, the most eye-popping desktop going right now, check the latest Austrumi, download into ram and then play a bit with changing the theme. I've not been more impressed with the look, feel and speed of a little Linux distro in some time. I wish Tiny Core, Tiny Me, even DSL and Puppy would ship with -this- look and feel!
If I can somehow figure out how to get my Orinoco pcmcia nic going in Austrumi, I'm about done downloading fresh live distros -for a few months at least ;)
-Kaiz
21 • A few observations of my own (by BlueJayofEvil on 2009-01-12 15:46:32 GMT from United States)
I'm glad FreeBSD and Sun are helping each other. I like FreeBSD a lot and am eagerly waiting for the 8.0 release (hopefully in a few months).
I'm also waiting for KDE 4.2 official release. I might just adopt KDE 4 when that comes out. And if not, the 4.3 will be almost certainly the definitive release.
And in other news, btrfs is in the linux .29 kernel for testing.
22 • KDE4 (by rview on 2009-01-12 16:08:18 GMT from United States)
I'm using 4.2 beta with Fedora 10 (apt.kde-redhat.org). Using it since a few days after it released. Works nice, minor glitches, but leaps and bounds above 4.1.x as far as speed. Functionality is getting there, and it's nice have an actual "desktop" to save things on again.
23 • beautiful (by Mint on 2009-01-12 16:39:37 GMT from India)
Absolute is a treat. If Austrumi is beautiful ( I agree) then what would KAIZ say about flexxxpup v1.5 dice?.
24 • RE: 19 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-12 17:06:52 GMT from United States)
Yes I tried Berry .094.
Same as all the others. Huge boot time that usually ends with the CD stopped and a black scrren for over a half hour.
It will run on my old dell laptop (PIII 650mhz) with 256mb of memory. It even shows the progress text. Huh.
I think the problem is with embeded video that shares RAM with the CPU. The old laptop has memory on the video card. Maybe I am wrong but that is the only thing two compaqs, a dell desktop and a SAMBA 1541 have in common.
Yes it is pretty and I could put in place of PCLOS 08' on the dell desktop as it has picked up a sound problem that has now turned into a crashing problem. Maybe I need a switch on startup.
25 • @4 RE: elimisteve (by Bobby Hunter on 2009-01-12 17:50:20 GMT from United States)
To elimisteve,
You asked "Which Debian based distro do you think is fastest?"
Well, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy... oh hell, I _am_ a fanboy. Try Debris Linux and see if that does what you need. Debris is less than 200 MB yet has a gnome desktop and excellent hardware support, and is compatible with Ubuntu Hardy repos.
http://www.debrislinux.org
26 • toutou linux (by Anonymous on 2009-01-12 18:11:30 GMT from France)
Awesome.
It's just a translation of puppy but I like how they translated it.
"grub travaille pour vous..."
"La patience est le joyau qui orne la couronne de la sagesse"
Just awesome! Much less boring that puppy :)
27 • Best KDE4 implementation (by Miq on 2009-01-12 18:13:12 GMT from Sweden)
First, to the one(s) who said "KDE4 isn't ready" or similar tripe, I am using it exclusively and am very satisfied with it. If you need some KDE3-only application then by all means keep using them, they will run under KDE4 if you have the kdebase3 libs/
---
Mandriva and Open SuSe seems to be the completest and most stable KDE4 distros:
* I personally use Mandriva. Its KDE4 implementation is VERY smooth and problem-free, and regularly updated. I have found no speed issues or anything to complain about with it.
* The Open SuSe KDE4 implementation has generally been considered favourably. Not having tried it myself, reviews and opinions seem to consider it very stable and complete, if perhaps a tad slower than other KDE4-based distros, though that might be in the eye of the beholder.
Worth checking out:
* I've heard very few complaints about the Fedora 10 implementation It seems to work as advertised, some reports of instabilities but also some of fast desktops come to mind.
* Sidux with KDE4 packages seems to be another good contender. I have heard no reports about any particular instabilities or issues with it.
Uncertain wildcards:
* Sabayon - wildly varying reports abound
* Mint 6 KDE4 - Mint 6 is an excellent distro if you like it Debian, and a great improvement on Ubuntu on which it is based. The KDE4 version seems to be have all the trappings of an excellent contender
* Berry - Again, a slick and attractive distro, that however still is quite new. Based on Fedora 10, but might lack completeness and language support.
* Chakra - This is a distro to keep your eyes on. Based on Arch (with advantages and disadvantages therefrom) but prepared for KDE4.
* Lapis Linux - Another distro for the future and the second great Linux from Turkey. Seems in everything an excellent distro.
28 • A homeboy! (by Dimitri on 2009-01-12 18:22:35 GMT from United States)
I, too, am from Rochester, New York. The boy got taken out of Rochester a long time ago, but Rochester never got taken out of the boy. Go, East!
Dimitri
29 • No subject (by wegface on 2009-01-12 20:02:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Kde 4: Chakra Project seems to be good.
Fastest debian: sidux without question
30 • Fast Slackware Distro (by netmaster on 2009-01-12 20:42:23 GMT from Canada)
Just wanted to point out that while Absolute Linux might be a great, fast distro trying to make Slackware user friendly, there is another... Zenwalk. I've been using Linux since 1994 and have tried pretty much all of the Linux and BSD distros and I still say Zenwalk is the fastest distro and easiest Slackware out there.
31 • Late Addition (by ZBREAKER on 2009-01-12 20:45:48 GMT from United States)
Hey, another great weekly edition....the only thing I really look forward to Mondays about! Also...another vote for Sidux as the fastest of the Debians...it truly flies.
32 • Sidux (by mika480 on 2009-01-12 21:02:28 GMT from Italy)
I do not know if Sidux is the fastest
it's just my favourite!!!
33 • Good comments this week (by Nobody important on 2009-01-12 21:40:07 GMT from United States)
Fastest Debian-based OS? That would be Debian, of course. Ever used it? Now is the time to try is out!
I saw the testing image of Xfce had LXDE in it a bit ago, and I was rather pleased. As some other users were saying, LXDE is a great, nice looking DE. Slitaz shows what you can do with it in 25 MB.
I should grab Absolute some time. I wish there would be a DVD with CD 1 and 2 to make that an easier download, but other than that, it's a nice, specialized distro. Well worth an interview. Someone mentioned Zenwalk, but that's a little father away from Slackware than Absolute. Nice try at an advertisement, though.
I played with KDE 4.1 a while ago on Fedora 10. My computer barely ran it. Well, too bad; wipe it and try something else. Maybe I'll play with it once it hits 4.2 in a few weeks.
Oh, and not to be a troll or anything, but the Windows 7 beta is actually pretty dang good. They stole quite a bit from Linux, though; at least they're learning from the right people. ;) No comparison to some of my favorite Linux distros, but its an interesting OS nonetheless.
34 • Darn thing... (by Willy G. on 2009-01-12 21:48:08 GMT from United States)
...I'm going to have to stop experimenting with Linux "distros" now, I guess.
*sniff* I'm so very sad.
It's just that I went and installed the Windows 7 beta on my spare hard drive (Vista Premium is on the other one) and it is so wonderful that, heck, I just don't think I can bring myself to covering it with a Linux. *sob*
Wait a minute, it's going to explode on August 1st anyway.. I'll get Fedora or Mint then. *yay*
Either that or buy Windows 7 for a couple of hundred dollars (American).
Decisions decisions.
:O) LOL, etc..
35 • RE: #30 - Zenwalk (by X on 2009-01-12 22:08:49 GMT from United States)
I like Zenwalk but Wolvix is easier to install and has more of the stuff I use. It is blazing fast. If you like Slackware, Wolvix is the way to go.
36 • For Slackware, just use Slackware... (by rworkman on 2009-01-12 22:25:12 GMT from United States)
If you want Slackware, just use Slackware. The learning curve isn't nearly as steep as most would like you to believe.
37 • It's the same translation... (by Tbob on 2009-01-13 00:20:22 GMT from United States)
Yeah Linux is like those wendy's or, whatever it was commercials: "in whatever language", Linux is good!!! Really good, depending on what you use and for what purpose, of course.
I still think personalization and preference is still over graphics, usability and speed, though that point could be argued.
38 • Re: 36 (by 1369ic on 2009-01-13 02:01:26 GMT from United States)
Not that Robbie Workman needs my second, but I continue to be amazed that everyone (even the subject of today's article) keeps saying Slackware is hard. I came from OS X (though with plenty of regrettable user-level Windows experience at work) straight into Slackware 8.1. I had typed in all of two commands on the OS X command line up to that point in my life. It was simple -- not automatic and opaque -- but simple.
And as much as I liked Zenwalk (used it for a year or so on my laptop before Slackware came out with a 2.6 kernel), it is not as fast as Slackware on either of my machines. Vector was zippy and well done, as was Wolvix, but all I saw them adding to Slackware was branding and cheerleading (nothing against either, but neither are a compelling reason to switch).
It seems to me everyone wants to be the Buick of Linux distros -- a couch on wheels that isolates you from the road while you stare at the faux wood trim -- but that sounds like Vista to me.
39 • Absolute (by Craig B. on 2009-01-13 02:57:03 GMT from United States)
1) I just installed Absolute, and it went without a hitch. Blazing speed, with some useful apps by default. Nice job Paul!
2) Another great DWW, Chris!
40 • SND-CS46XX (by Ray on 2009-01-13 04:26:43 GMT from United States)
Debian needs to include snd-cs46xx or at least a way to install it . The excuse that it doesn't have a license is not really an excuse, not having a license makes it even more open than GPL.
41 • @3 - Best KDE4 distro (by Lizard on 2009-01-13 04:59:36 GMT from India)
opensuse 11.1 is the best.
By backporting many things from KDE 4.2 and wisely replacing some buggy/incomplete KDE4 apps with KDE3 ones, the suse devs made a great job.
42 • Suse cannot be trusted (by Bob Hunter aka Debris Fanboy on 2009-01-13 05:46:43 GMT from United States)
@41 - Suse may be pretty but she is infected with a communicable disease called mono and is controlled by a company that collaborates with Microsoft to co-opt free software.
43 • RE: 42, suse CAN be trusted (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2009-01-13 07:10:08 GMT from Pakistan)
Time and again, we hear of things said against suse. Wouldn't it be far better if you were not prejudiced against Microsoft and focused on usability...? After all, as far as ease and usability goes, suse does it better many others.
44 • Re:42 What Mono in Suse's KDE4 ??? (by Minton on 2009-01-13 07:43:19 GMT from Russian Federation)
I beleive you were talking about Gnome, that is infected with Mono. So in your point of view every Distro with Gnome is infected )) Suse is not - she does not offer a default desktop at all ;)
45 • linux :) (by arno911 on 2009-01-13 09:27:06 GMT from Germany)
i can agree with sidux being the fastest Debian
but i have to mention, that there have been and maybe still are some issues with KDE4 on sidux. sidux does not officially support the use of KDE4, users can install it from Debians experimental repo (bla own risk bla^^)
Once the freeze is over and lenny goes stable, all the new packages who have been waiting in experimental will go into sid (thats what sidux is made of, hence the name)
We will see turbulent times :)
My first Impression of KDE4: Im now using fluxbox... guess why^^
but i may be installing KDE4 on Windows 7, cause i think thats what its made for !!
xubuntu isnt faster than sidux by the way :) at least not on my AMD Athlon 3000+/1GB RAM and my Intel C2D 6600e/2GB RAM PCs.
What is faster indeed is Absolute Linux! (but in my case, only on the Athlon)
and i didnt measure it with a stopwatch or "time" command, its just the feeling i get.
i d love to see comparisons of the slackware based distris - from absolute over vector to wolvix, and whatever i may have missed.
thx for this DW weekly, good work :)
best regards
arno911
46 • Slackware offspring review, Caitlyn, we need your input ! (by Caraibes on 2009-01-13 10:35:04 GMT from Dominican Republic)
>i d love to see comparisons of the slackware based distris - from absolute over vector to wolvix, and whatever i may have missed.
+1
I agree that it would be nice to benchmark Slackware, Vector, Zenwalk, Absolute and maybe Wolvix...
On out of the box features, locales, non-free stuff, packages available with or without package manager...
Caitlyn Martin is usually the one handling that...
-Where are you Caitlyn ???
47 • No subject (by Some Hoser on 2009-01-13 11:22:48 GMT from Canada)
This week's DW was a refreshing change from last. I enjoyed the interview and wealth of information. Good work, keep it up! :)
48 • Comment 46 (by forest on 2009-01-13 11:47:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref bench marking...unless you specify what sort of machine, processor, ram etc ad nauseum it would be meaningless...you would have to benchmark the machine itself.
Further, absolute speed is not really that much of an issue...this sounds like more of a peeing contest, LOL.
Perhaps folk lose sight of the aim of Linux, it is simply another OS, so you can use your PC, whatever to do stuff. The OS is not really an end in itself.
The main advantages are: NOT MS, there are many, many more applications, it can revitalise old machines and it is free...apart from donations or distros backed by commercial concerns.
This is not to say that any individual's work is waste of time, far from it. If A.N.Other wants to make his or her distro nice to look at why not, but let's not forget it is all just window dressing (groan). It's what you actually use the machine for is what really matters,and how stable/reliable it is, not how fast it does this or that.
You would buy a really tricked up machine for gaming, or possibly HD video editing say, but thus far I have not seen many references to playing games, or editing. In fact I have seen very few references to dual/multi core machines or whether a processor is 32 or 64 bit.
Which makes all this notion of speed a bit pointless...
49 • Re #43 Muhammad Waseem and trusting Microsoft (by Miq on 2009-01-13 14:07:14 GMT from Sweden)
RE 43 • RE: 42, suse CAN be trusted (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem): "Time and again, we hear of things said against suse. Wouldn't it be far better if you were not prejudiced against Microsoft and focused on usability...? After all, as far as ease and usability goes, suse does it better many others."
Ehrm, from which planet do you come? How can you NOT be prejudiced against Microsoft? Do you know nothing of their business history, their methods and business practices, or their ideals? Have you no sense of pattern recognition or prognosticative abilities?
50 • RE: 49, Trusting Microsoft (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2009-01-13 14:26:47 GMT from Pakistan)
I wouldn't trust Microsoft if I had a choice. Unfortunately, I don't. They offer the OS that's far more convenient for me than any other, even if I do hate the way they work. Kick out the bias, and you'll know that Windows + Office 2007 is still far more advanced than any Linux distro + openoffice.org
I love Linux, and the free philosophy. I always keep a distro installed with me, and the at the moment, it's Fedora. But numbers count. And I need them on my side. Hence suse.
51 • 49 - 50 - Sad... (by Johnny Bench on 2009-01-13 14:47:22 GMT from United States)
The above two comments are sad but true. Windows + Office has no equal. I guess I will download Windows7 and be done with it.
It's not just the free philosophy but the lack of professional quality of open source. It's kind of like the difference between a backyard mechanic and true pros.
Just look at the difference between Gimp and Photoshop. Not even close.
52 • RE: 51 (by ladislav on 2009-01-13 14:55:02 GMT from Taiwan)
I guess I will download Windows7 and be done with it.
We are all very happy for you. Now please go back to your Windows forum. The topic here is Linux distributions and other free operating systems.
53 • "go back to your Windows forum" etc.. (by Jerry B. on 2009-01-13 15:01:55 GMT from United States)
Johnny Bench's post #51 is most certainly about Linux. It is a valid comparison of a couple of elements of Linux and Windows.
Because he stated his preference for Windows you got your panties in a bunch. If he'd stated the same comparison but ended it with, "I'm still sticking with Linux," you would have been fine with his post I'm guessing.
Think about it.
54 • RE: 53 (by ladislav on 2009-01-13 15:29:45 GMT from Taiwan)
There is nothing to think about. Comparisons of Windows and Linux, valid or not, are NOT the topic of this forum. I don't mind if it happens once in a while, but for the last two weeks we've had an awful lot of Windows trolls expressing strong anti-Linux opinions here.
So one last time, the topic of discussion here is free operating systems. Please stick with it - otherwise you might see your post removed.
55 • @ 20: For ATI? (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2009-01-13 15:38:22 GMT from Pakistan)
Austrumi's for Nvidia and Intel ... Is there something I can find for ATI?
56 • re 54 (by Gustavo on 2009-01-13 16:29:34 GMT from United States)
I fully support Ladislav. I'm happy for anybody using Windows if that is what they want or like, but here I come to read about free operating systems.
57 • Mandriva (by paul on 2009-01-13 17:07:25 GMT from United States)
I am back to buggy Mandriva. In spite of the speed bumps, it still works better than most
Sabayon- The magic died before the install was done. Selecting programs was a non-intuitive hassle that didn't work very well. Portato does something, but not for me. And, if I recall correctly, I had mouse problems.
Slackware/Vector - Speaking of mouse problems, the Slackware distros should include ExplorerPS/2. I seems to be the only driver that makes multi-button mice work. That, and Lilo, sort of canned it for me. It seems that mutli-booting with Lilo requires much more skill than I have. I couldn't find a reasonable way to creat a boot choice for PCLOS (which is essential for me to have, as many distros do not provide a superuser file manager for the unwashed).
Fedora- Fedora is still fun! But the setup is tedious. Something like YaST would be a big help. After being updated by some kernel mods, that were inadvisable, I gave up. However, I got good at installing the nVidia driver from the stall point. Then, when I found that the kernel updates also ditched floppy drive capability, I decided enough was enough.
So Mandriva has some rough edges, but the mouse works on install, and there is only minor messing around to set up the nVidia driver (for dual screen). Mandy, I'm sorry I left you.
I am typing this on my Toshiba Satellite. I keep dragging my thumbs across the @#$%^ touch pad. It takes a long time to write something if you have to keep re-assembling the paragraphs. So I am off to see how to disable this thing in OpenSuse, which I still use on the laptop.
58 • Mandriva (by Anonymous on 2009-01-13 17:33:09 GMT from Canada)
Mandriva + Gnome is very solid. You are probably talking about Mandriva + KDE 4 and you are right, it's not that good but compared to other distros, Mandriva's implementation of KDE 4 is probably the best. You may want to try Mandriva 2009.1 beta 1. It comes with KDE 4.2. Beta 1 comes out at the end of this week.
59 • Speed and The Article (by Landor on 2009-01-13 17:45:15 GMT from Canada)
I have to say that I was smilin' when I read the article with Paul and of course some insight into Absolute due to the fact that I just mentioned it last week. :)
I have to agree with some of the comments here regarding speed. Although I personally find distros like Absolute, AntiX, etc, "extremely" fast, that doesn't give anyone any benchmark as to the truth of the matter. I would believe though that anyone running a lighter distro would find a huge speed increase in comparison to some of the big boys, especially under a DE. That's quite obvious in my opinion.
Yes, I'll tout the Gentoo banner for a minute. I've seldom seen distros that can compare to the speed and flexibility that building Gentoo from the ground up offers. The ones I can say are mention above, as well as quite a few others and Slackware proper itself.
The topic of asthetics is a moot point in my opinion. Very few people really want a bland, or raw generic desktop. So, in essence, making it look nice is a definitive factor. But, also, making it look nice and still being a performer is key. A lot of smaller distros make this happen quite well.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
60 • Geexbox (by john frey on 2009-01-13 17:46:24 GMT from Canada)
I used the Geexbox .iso generator this weekend to create a cd for my multimedia PC. It works fantastic. The OS I was using previously, although a minimal install with icewm, was still stuttering and lagging at times. Especially on H264 and .mkv files. Rendering 1920x1200 on a 28" widescreen monitor takes a lot of power.
Geexbox is running on the front end with an NFS server on the backend. It was a piece of cake to set up nfs with the .iso generator. All my hardware bugs had already been fixed while using the previous OS and there seem to be no software bugs at all on my system.
The previous version of Geexbox did not work well for me but this one, although a beta, works beautifully. I've ordered one of the supported remotes and that will make my system everything I envisioned it would be. Well except that I want a larger monitor:) When I can buy a 48" for $400 I will have everything I want.
61 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-13 18:00:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref 56. Hear, Hear!
Ref 51. So what if, allegedly, MS OO 2007 is better than OO.o 3.0.How esoteric does an office suite have to be? It's that old peeing contest again, LOL. Unless you have a really urgent need to use all the stuff on OO07 what use would it be? Especially as it runs at about £100! Oops, nearly forgot money equals better...
And what about MS CS? My cousin worked on their help desk...his opinion of their customers was somewhat, er...low. The questions asked indicated to him and his colleagues the customers would have been happier playing with the cardboard box, no, really. So even if MS stuff was better (? Nay I jest...) very few folk know how to use it anyway.LOL!
But that would prove, ahem, that folk who like MS, the great unwashed that is, know the square root of SFA. And, it seems again, are happy to buy into the latest hype from salemen...how scathing is that? LOL
Turning down the vitriol...We all know OOo will catch up anyway! Besides, from what I read in the computer press some of the articles suggested MS were a tad "keen" to get their offering ISO approved...some of the practices were considered "questionable". Hmmm, can anyone recount a similar occurrence with Linux stuff?
62 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-14 00:31:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
ref64
Pakistan? You must have read elsewhere in DW that Spain is moving to Linux in some of it's provincial government/educational departments for use on PCs. You may have read elsewhere in the financial press that Standard and Poors are seriously considering changing Spain rating down from AAA. It must be indicative that a successful Western European country is having to watch it's spending.
You will have noticed also other nations are developing distros in their native tongue...without necessarily providing other language support.
I do not believe these events are isolated one-offs (sorry for oxymoronic type term), the world recession is here for the short to mid term...I would suggest many other countries will consider doing the same thing for their "official" PCs "use" so to speak.
Launching a new MS OS at this time is perhaps not the best commercial move if money is scarce so to speak. Once folk enjoy free stuff, a paid for OS is going to have to be some piece of software!
I would further predict Linux/Solaris/BSD will rise in popularity, not because of forums like this but economic necessity. We should not forget also that in other spheres Linux dominates the markets already. Does the name "apache" ring any bells?
On a whimsical note, we may look back in ten or fifteen years time, grandchildren on knee, and ask ourselves,"did we really PAY for an OS....?
63 • fastest debian, etc. (by digger on 2009-01-14 01:17:14 GMT from United States)
sidux; installs fast too.
re 51& supporters: don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out.
64 • deleted comments (by Bob Hunter on 2009-01-14 01:49:30 GMT from United States)
@63 - I think the post/posts you are referring to have been deleted. Your's WAS comment number 68, now it is 63. That means 5 posts have disappeared.
65 • KDE4 release candidate (by rview on 2009-01-14 02:45:59 GMT from United States)
Just upgraded to 4.2 RC from 4.2 Beta. Looks good so far. Fedora 10, 64 bit. I did the upgrade from gnome, and deleted the existing hidden .kde setting folder before login (just because). I had a minor crash right away, but nothing since. Runs smooth.
66 • RE: 62, Did someone say Pakistan? (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2009-01-14 03:41:02 GMT from Pakistan)
What was that? I must have missed it... :(
67 • Ooh (by Former Distro Hopper on 2009-01-14 05:20:12 GMT from India)
No fall in the number of distro-hoppers at any given time :D
68 • Slackware and derivatives (since I was asked) (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-14 06:06:09 GMT from United States)
First, despite the two comments to the contrary I do believe that Slackware is decidedly more difficult to use and maintain that the derivatives discussed here due to a lack of dependency checking, a lack of GUI admin tools, and the inevitable dependency on third party repositories of variable quality due to the small Slackware repo. An experienced user who is motivated to do so can certainly work around those issues. You certainly won't find anything better than vanilla Slackware in terms of reliability, stability, and nearly bug-free releases. I took a lot of heat from the Slackware community for saying these things in my review of Slackware 12.1 and I expect my review of 12.2 will take similar heat when it's published. I still believe that, from my perspective, it's an accurate assessment.
I think Paul Sherman hit the nail on the head in his description of Slackware as particularly unfriendly to newcomers who don't want to dig into config files and command line tools from day one. OTOH, if you really want to learn how things work under the hood it would be really, really hard to do better than Slackware as a starting point.
I think distros like Absolute, Vector, Zenwalk, and Wolvix have a place. Each has unique apps, tools, and features developed specifically for the distro. It's a lot more than branding and hype. My favorite example of this is wicd , a network/wi-fi manager developed for and by Zenwalk that has spread to lots of other distros. Another that is frequently overlooked is VL-Hot, an alternative to HAL that doesn't constantly poll the hardware, great for saving battery life and reducing CPU cycles on machines with limited processing power. As the name suggests that's a Vector Linux thing that I wish other lightweight distros would consider.
In regards to the issue of speed, so long as distros are benchmarked on identical hardware a comparison is valid. I agree with those who say that 32-bit and 64-bit results are going to be different so you really can't take my 32-bit machine benchmarks and translate them to 64-bit hardware. BlueWhite64 (essentially vanilla Slackware recompiled on 64-bit hardware) has been blessed by Patrick Vollkerding. If you're running 64-bit and you want the vanilla Slack experience that is probably the way to go. Neither Wolvix nor Zenwalk have 64-bit versions AFAIK. Vector Linux 64 6.0 is in alpha at the moment so it's a bit premature for all but the most adventurous out there to consider it.
So... to answer the question for 32-bit systems only. Vector Linux and Wolvix are the two fastest I've found. Both are optimized for speed and do marginally better than vanilla Slack. The difference is quite small but on older, limited hardware being pushed to the limit you will see it. IME vanilla Slackware and Zenwalk are both equally fast. I've just started playing with Absolute so I won't venture an opinion but it's at least as good as vanilla Slackware or Zenwalk for speed. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these five. They are all excellent performers and are noticeably, as in obviously and substantially faster than any Debian or Fedora/Red Hat based distro I've tried to date. This is why I've tended to stick with Slackware-based distros for my personal use. (Business use demands Red Hat because that's what all but one of my customers use.)
For internationalization/localization Slackware, Wolvix, and Absolute fall down pretty badly. So does Vector Linux prior to version 6.0, currently at release candidate 3. Changing locale and language has to be done manually. It's done by editing one of two possible config files depending on whether you are changing the system default or the user default and setting five variables. If you are in a multilingual household or business and different people share the computer you are going to find changing languages a pain. Slackware does package i18n files for KDE, i10n files for koffice, and aspell dictionaries. Wolvix and Absolute don't even do that much.
Zenwalk and Vector Linux 6.0 both use gdm for their display manager which allows the user to choose language on the fly from the GUI when logging in on either a session-by-session basis or as the user default. Vector currently packages everything Slackware includes plus language packs for Firefox and Thunderbird, additional fonts for Asian languages and Hebrew, and a few additional apps aimed squarely at users who need non-Latin glyphs. The new GUI installer currently supports English, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, and Russian. Supposedly some new languages were added for RC3 which I'm downloading now. So... Vector Linux, which was sorely lacking in the area of internationalization/localization in the past, is probably one of the best of the Slackware derivatives in that area now. Zenwalk and Nonux are close behind.
I chuckle when I see someone complaining that a default desktop for a given distro is ugly. Heck, I don't like any of them myself. Changing background and themes in a GUI is so easy that I never understand why this is an issue.
These are, of course, opinions and I expect some folks will disagree loudly :)
69 • well, thx Caitlyn! (by arno911 on 2009-01-14 09:53:25 GMT from Germany)
thx for your comparison, very much appreciated.
the best i've seen so far. (others were one-liners mostly *g*)
made me think about things ive never thought of before. localization in a multi-user environment, GUI-tools and such.
Speed is not everything.
i get the impression, that Vector Linux may be number #1 at the moment. let's see what the future brings.
b.r.
arno
70 • Re:68, good post... (by Caraibes on 2009-01-14 10:04:59 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Thanks, Caitlyn...
Indeed, the major problem so far (from my point of view) is the lack of localization (I need French & Spanish, one account for each...).
I am surprised that a Canadian distro doesn't have any French (but it seems English-speaking Canadians tend to dislike using the French language...)
As of the 64 bit offer... It will gradually start to be a problem, as most cpu's sold today are 64 bit...
This is indeed too bad, as it makes Slackware & derivatives much less attractive than their .deb or .rpm counterparts, in spite of being faster, and very interesting...
I am however eager to test-drive Vector 6... Will use it in English, 32 bit ;o)
71 • Vector in English only (by Joey on 2009-01-14 11:16:23 GMT from United States)
Try asking in their forums over there at Vector why no languages versions other than English.
I dare you.
72 • No subject (by divadgnol at 2009-01-14 13:34:50 GMT from United States)
Windows this, Windows that, a bloated system, they call "fat"
Dr Watson, System 32, Hey look man, my screens all blue.
73 • Slackware (by X on 2009-01-14 14:27:47 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the intelligent response above Caitlyn. This is the kind of useful information I like to read here. As someone fairly new to Linux I am interested in learning more all the time. However, I like many people don't have time to "build" a distro from scratch. Slackware (or any version of Linux) may be easy or hard to use depending on intelligence, time, and level of interest. You can't just make a blanket statement that Slackware is easy. I see a lot "off the cuff" responses like this on various forums to sincere questions. For example, "which distro has Skype on it"? Response: "Any of them". This is arrogant, elitist and narrow-minded. We all understand that probably anything can be made to work on any distro if you have enough knowledge, time and interest. I have the interest but the knowledge and time are limited and scarce in that order. I rely heavily on what I can glean from the forums. I get frustrated easily when I can't get something to work and there is no available information on how to do it. I presume that others feel the same way.
74 • just tested Win7 for 177 minutes... (by capricornus on 2009-01-14 14:51:38 GMT from Belgium)
... and removed it. It is beautiful, yes. It looks smooth. So is Paris ;-). It does what it must do, just like an *buntu or a drake. Even less, since neither VLC nor Winamp could deliver streams without hickups. I just couldn't believe it: sloppy audio on a standard system (Pduo with 1GB RAM and standard audio on MSI MB). Do they really believe I would hold on then? I want to maintain my websites whilst listening to some Loungy stream. One must be crazy or victim of a CerebroVascularAccident to think about paying for this. I'm writing this with reinstalled AntiX8, that pleases me much. Much more than Paris ;-).
75 • Slack (by divadgnol on 2009-01-14 15:14:44 GMT from United States)
Over and over again I return to Slackware. I am a distro hopper, this satisfies my need for something new. I have tried every distro on the top 100 list of DW. They all have something to offer for both the newbie and the veteran. Some are more user friendly e.g. Ubuntu and some are geared towards the experiencd user e.g. Crux. Slackware, I believe falls somewhere in between. It may not have all the bells and whistles that Ubuntu has, but it much easier to set up (initially) than Gentoo. I find the melding of stability and security the perfect balance. There are several sites that host both packages and builds so that one can add almost any package one would need.
76 • superubuntu (by Jairo Mayorga at 2009-01-14 15:50:19 GMT from Colombia)
Please look at www.hacktolive.org
Thanks
77 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-14 16:52:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
forest to Caitlyn.
Ref your comments apropos speed, getting your ear bent by fans of whatever distro...does it matter, really? You must know by now young blokes go on about how fast their car goes, older blokes about how comfortable their car is...and blokes like me are just glad we remember where we left the car...no doubt in time I'll just be happy to be driven around...
I think folk are too concerned about how fast their particular favourite distro is, but we never learn exactly what they do with all this speed. LOL.
Judging by the same few folk who are active on this forum, it would seem reasonable to say the others (several millions), who do use Linux, are not especially bothered about speed either.
They probably just use it for officey type stuff...er, how fast can you type, or is a presentation any better were you able to knock a minute off the bums on seat time?! Or watching a film or Skyping (or whatever app you prefer).
The whole ethos of freeware, the licences etc etc, is sharing ideas, not competing with one another using specious arguments. And what about 32bit or 64bit architectures? Is this relevant for the vast majority? No of course not.
What MIGHT be useful would be to benchmark how efficient a particular piece of s/w is against similar...as in the least amount of code or how elegant the programming is or how "bullet-proof" it may be, or its stability, or even how intuitive it is to use, or develop a foolproof installer or a partitioner...
You can see instantly this might be a more "efficient" way of promoting Linux. Naturally there will be opinions stating this IS what happens...but do we need so many parallel development streams?
Do we really need a peeing contest every time a new distro get launched?
78 • Slackware (by Nobody important on 2009-01-14 20:55:54 GMT from United States)
Never been able to get into Slackware. I'm always about to hit the button and let it rip, but all that work...it sounds too hard for me. I'm kind of a wuss, I guess, but if I'm going to get a distro, I prefer ones that do the hard work for me.
Is this a valid view of Slackware? Someone steer me right here.
79 • Speed. and #76 (by Douglas E on 2009-01-14 21:02:55 GMT from Germany)
There seems to be 2 sorts of linux speed. One is they type I want on my amd x2 64. I want to click and icon and see the software on the screen before I can blink! This does not happen, it is almost as slow as my C64 was. Why?
I did find a fix though to at least get me to be content with the speed. I changed the swappness number from 60 to 10. Still I have a super computer on my desk, why do I have to wait at all?
The other type of speed is the type that is needed for my Intel p3 laptop computer. I just want it to run and things not to get bogged down every time I scroll the screen or type a word. Some software just does not run on it that I would expect to work fine, like abacus word but the OO-word works fine but slow. Strange how that is.
So far the best thing to run on it has been Xubuntu. I thought that was strange too. It has Vector in it now but that is very slow.
You might think these two types of speed are the same thing but they do not seem to be. For example Abucus IS faster on my big system.
For those wondering about the pro-MS hype here, you need to read the book, "Toxic sludge is good for you." What MS pays for you get.
Toxic Sludge is Good for You by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton from Robinson Publishing (Taschenbuch - 31. August 2004)
80 • Linux is fast (by morgan on 2009-01-14 21:10:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
Regarding the comments about speed:-
I have always found any Ubuntu distro slow on all machines (they all use AMD) both 32 and 64.
However Arch linux or Mandriva or Fedora seem much faster and always have I believe these distros have kernel settings that are better for desktops (i.e pre emption and 1000Hz, etc)
All the distros I run (I also pretty much always compile my own kernel) seem faster than windows XP on my machine - also windows can't see all my memory (only sees 3.25 GB) - linux both 32(pae) and 64 bit versions see all my memory.
81 • Reply to post 78 (by divadgnol on 2009-01-14 21:13:36 GMT from United States)
78,
First and foremost you are important so stop with the selfeffacement. And in response to your view on Slackware I think it is somewhat unwarranted. There is nothing hard about it. Unless, you want to totally steer clear of the command line and if that's the case I guess package dependency can seem a bit daunting. But sites like "SlackBuilds.org" makes even that easy. I have been using slackware since Slackware 8 and every release is better than the one before. Even though the were a bit long in the tooth before switching to a 2.6 kernel. As you say "hit the button" and give it a ride.
82 • RE: Douglas - Kubuntu 9.04 - nvidia drivers (by morgan on 2009-01-14 21:22:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi.
The recent nvidia driver - 180.22 works with 9.04.
x86 version - http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_180.22.html
83 • Re: 68 on Slackware and friends (by anon on 2009-01-14 22:11:44 GMT from Norway)
Thank you for the rundown, Caitlyn.
But, but... - why is Archlinux 'always' being forgotten by everyone talking about the Slackware family? Isn't it the fastest, simplest, most complete, current and easiest distro ever? Of course it is! ;)
At least when all this things are taken together, I think it is. There is a small learning curve for the first install, but it is easily overcome by reading the wiki document for newbies. When I, as a Linux ignorant, could be up and running in a relatively short time (an hour +/-), anyone should be able to. And I learned important things about Linux in the process. What could be better for a new Linux user?
Archlinux comes in both 32- and 64-bit versions. I also have Bluewhite64, but Arch is faster! :)
Anyway, just thought it was time someone plugged Arch.
84 • 78 • Slackware (by anon on 2009-01-14 22:44:10 GMT from Norway)
Hi Nobody ;)
Slackware, i.e. Bluewhite64, was dounting to me. But I am sure you will manage to install it, and if you then remember your user name and pw when it's booted to runlevel 3, and you then type 'startx', you're home free. Me, I didn't even know about startx...
Bluewhite64 is practically a Slackware 'clone' for 64-bit cpu's.
Go ahead and try. Nothing spectaclar will happen, but you will have a fast and rock solid system and the hazzle of learning about compiling your own user apps if you need something out of the very ordinary... :)
85 • No subject (by Sertse on 2009-01-14 22:47:04 GMT from Australia)
Arch came from Slack?
I thought Arch derived from CRUX...and CRUX itself was't really based on anything.
Good article this week though, very informative.
86 • 85 Re: Arch (by anon at 2009-01-14 23:10:07 GMT from Norway)
My apologies to Caitlyn Martin and yourself.
I wrote from 'memory', and when trying to back it up, I can't find anything...
FWIW, here is what how the Arche developers compare Arch to Slackware:
"Arch vs Slackware
The mighty Slackware and Arch are quite similar in that both are simple distributions focused on elegance and minimalism. Slackware is famous for its lack of branding and completely vanilla packages, from the kernel up. Arch typically applies patching only to avoid severe breakage and preserve functionality, if absolutely necessary. Both use BSD-style init scripts. Arch supplies a package management system in pacman which, unlike Slackware's standard tools, offers automatic dependency resolution and allows for easy system upgrades. Slackware users typically prefer their method of manual dependency resolution, citing the level of system control it grants them. Arch is a rolling-release system. Slackware is seen as more conservative in its release cycle, preferring proven stable packages. Arch is more 'bleeding edge' in this respect. Arch is i686 and x86_64 whereas Slackware can run on i486 systems. Arch offers ABS, an actual ports-like system. The (unofficial) Slackbuild system is very similar to Arch's AUR concept. Slack users will generally be quite comfortable with most aspects of Arch."
87 • Arch (by Misfit138 on 2009-01-14 23:23:11 GMT from United States)
Arch is not based on any other distro. It was built from scratch by Judd Vinet, who was inspired by principles in common with Per Liden's CRUX distribution.
88 • Replies (by Nobody important on 2009-01-15 00:08:40 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the replies on my Slackware question. I think I'll download the DVD and give it a rip later, at least to say I gave it a shot. I also have an Arch CD I could try as well. Somewhere in that pile of CD-R's.
I was going to reinstall Ubuntu over the Windows 7 beta after seeing what MS is up to, but I think I'll give Slackware a chance instead. Thanks, guys.
I know my nametag's a little silly, but I use it on several Linux sites and it's hard to stop. ;)
89 • Slackware (by Oiving on 2009-01-15 00:39:35 GMT from United States)
Slackware to me always held the promise of an os which could run on my rather primitive hardware. Some of us are just not able to acquire high teck goodies like the Sabayon and Suse users here.
When Vector came out several years ago I was thrilled. It worked and it was Slackware fine tuned and optimized, to say the least.
I had not then the ability to start from scratch with Slackware. I do now. I am now happy to use Slackware with the new kernel when I do not have to be on company Windows equipment.
To me that is the bottom line on Slackware; its usability on older graphics and cpu hardware.
90 • To Douglas E, #79 (by Appy on 2009-01-15 05:32:17 GMT from India)
I also have a PIII desktop system and XP is the fastest on it- yet I would prefer a Linux version that comes close to that speed.
Gnome distros run quite slow on it- the most annoying things being mouse freezes during high CPU and/or RAM activity. Surprisingly, KDE4.1 actually feels faster! The reason is that mouse is hardware accelerated in 4.1 ( for most display cards, and onboard graphics units ) and so it feels much more zippy. The best thing to do is to try out a KDE4 distro and see if it performs on your hardware- it did on mine, although its still not XP-fast.
91 • reply to 90; a faster PIII computer (by Douglas E on 2009-01-15 07:27:10 GMT from Germany)
My little pIII system is a laptop. It started life with xp but I blanked that and put in the Xubuntu, and now it has Vector on it. If xp is faster, I would say that you have not tuned linux to your system.
Check the swappiness setting and make sure it is very low, like 10. Boot grub one time with the profile command. Use top or whatever and see what is running. Turn off EVERYTHING that you don't need or use, that is often a lot. Turn off extra CLIs, who needs 6 of the things?? This must be the dumbest default ever! If you are so pro that you need six then you should be able to turn on a few extras yourself. Limit your GUI desktop to one window or maybe two. Use a small Desktop and tune it to your needs. I love KDE but not on my pIII. If all that fails build yourself a Gentoo system. Fastest boot I have even seen on my computer was with Gentoo and it's tuned kernel and all the hardware hardwired into boot scripts.
You can also do a lot by picking your software. I dare you to say that XP Explorer runs faster that Dillo2! Ya sure, it only works on well written websites without fancy stuff but then you can always use firefox but be sure to tune FF too.
Use CLI stuff as much as you can, for example play music with one like mp3blaster, brows your files with mc, and aptitude will run a gui from the cli too. Get rad and use ELink. LOL
This goes over some speed ups.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8308
92 • to 91, DE (by Appy on 2009-01-15 08:06:57 GMT from India)
You are right, I do not have my linux distro tuned well- there are a few things I tuned but that's all. Your post has a lot of things I'm not aware of, and I'll look into them. Thanks for the helpful tips.
93 • LXDE (by M. Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér on 2009-01-15 10:06:18 GMT from Denmark)
I agree with the praises of Lxde. While I am quite attached to Xfce - http://syntaktisk.dk/grphcs/desktop150109.png - I have certainly been impressed with the speedy efficiency of Lxde. Also, there is a good collection of useful panel plugins.
94 • Wolvix (by X on 2009-01-15 14:57:59 GMT from United States)
Wolvix is very nice for someone new to Linux who might be interested in a Slackware based distribution. I knew nothing about Linux at all when I started and Wolvix was not over my head. Version 2.0 will be coming soon.
If you have an older sub Pentium III with less than 1gig RAM you might want to try a different distro though.
There are two versions of Wolvix, Wolvix Hunter and Wolvix Cub. As you might expect Cub is the smaller version.
95 • Caitlyn Martin's post #68 (by rworkman on 2009-01-15 15:20:36 GMT from United States)
Disclaimer: I am rworkman @ slackware.com - therefore, it should be assumed that I am biased (although I try to stay objective).
Caitlyn, opinions with which I disagree are fine, but please don't spread things that are factually incorrect.
1. Wicd was NOT developed BY or FOR Zenwalk; I don't know how you came up with that, but it's just plain wrong.
2. Pat has NOT "blessed" BlueWhite64 (or any other 64bit derivative of Slackware); again, I don't know how you came up with that, but it's just plain wrong.
Finally, notice that I made it clear at the beginning of this post that I am affiliated with Slackware. You have never (at least that I've seen) bothered to make it clear that you are affiliated with Vector Linux, yet you write "reviews" and such and use your status as an "independent" reviewer to encourage its use.
96 • post#95 (by Kosh on 2009-01-15 15:44:36 GMT from Spain)
About
"You have never (at least that I've seen) bothered to make it clear that you are affiliated with Vector Linux, yet you write "reviews" and such and use your status as an "independent" reviewer to encourage its use."
I suposse you didn't read in DWW 281 review of Vector 6 beta
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20081208
Caitlyn Martin said
"In the interest of full disclosure I must mention that I do some volunteer work for VectorLinux, including packaging, repository maintenance, and testing."
97 • Slackware & Slack based distro (by Kosh on 2009-01-15 15:52:01 GMT from Spain)
I prefer Slackware & Slackware based distros because in my view these distros are the right point between the:
- too many releases with not enough time to patch everything and with too new and untested software (remember KDE 4 or PulseAudio): the Fedora or Ubuntu point of view
- only one relase each 2 or 3 years (apart from bug & security fix), the RHEL (& clones of course: Centos, Scientific ...) or Debian Stable point of view
IMHO a better point of view is the "conservative but not only one release each 2-3 years" used in Slackware and derivatives (Vector, Zenwalk ...)
Of course is just my opinion and other people have a different point of view
98 • Re #96 (by rworkman on 2009-01-15 15:54:49 GMT from United States)
Kosh,
No, I had not seen that, but after reading it, that's good to see. I do wish Caitlyn were more consistent with offering that disclaimer when she discusses pros and cons of Slackware and its derivatives though...
For me, it just seems like it would be unethical/misleading/whatever if I were to write a "review" of Slackware and point out all the ways that it's "better" than other distributions, especially others that are similar to it. That's basically why I've never done a "review" of Slackware, but I suppose everyone else's ethical constructs aren't like mine.
99 • RE: #98 (by X on 2009-01-15 16:33:52 GMT from United States)
When you're wrong just apologize and move on. Caitlyn has done nothing unethical or even questionable. She is quite well known and information about her is not hard to find. This is not some subversive plot to trick the masses into using Vector Linux. Even if it was have you considered the end result? The masses would be using a top notch operating system. It is you who didn't do your research.
100 • Re #99 (by rworkman on 2009-01-15 16:46:59 GMT from United States)
Um, perhaps you didn't *read* what I actually wrote. I left it open that Caitlyn *might* have stated her affiliations (you know, that part about "at least [not] that I've seen"), just for people like you. As for me "not doing my research" - I shouldn't have to "research" whether a reviewer is affiliated with the product he/she is reviewing - that should be made clear in the actual "review."
All that aside, you're ignoring the real point - Caitlyn made at least two factually incorrect statements in her post.
101 • 98 • Re: Reviews (by anon on 2009-01-15 16:49:18 GMT from Norway)
rworkman wrote:
"For me, it just seems like it would be unethical/misleading/whatever if I were to write a "review" of Slackware and point out all the ways that it's "better" than other distributions, especially others that are similar to it."
I beg to differ. As long as the reader is aware of the pertinent affiliations, it would be perfectly o.k. Given that we are all subjective, what counts are facts and good arguments. I, for one, would welcome your opinions of Slackware, as well as of how it compares to other distros. Especially the latter.
Since experts are so wary of comparing distros and therefore speak about them as if we all are more or less fully informed of various solutions' relative benefits, the result is that too many users/developers are actually losing valuable information. Of course, this is the way I see it, which should be needless to say... :)
102 • RE #100 (by X on 2009-01-15 17:16:54 GMT from United States)
Just to clarify, I did *read* what you actually wrote and I feel that's a fairly weak point but whatever.
I appreciate the work you do on Slackware. I do know who you are and I have read your blog.
We could go back and forth forever debating the merits of stated or unstated biases and factual disputes but in the worldwide marketplace of ideas where information is just a button click away, assuming that everyone has equal access to information (incorrect assumption I know but true in your case) the individual is ultimately responsible for the knowledge he/she obtains. Not everything gets handed to you on a silver platter.
Having said that, I agree with #98 above. I would really enjoy reading your comparison of different distros. If memory serve me correctly, you are an educator so I would welcome your ideas. I would expect you to state your bias first though, of course.
103 • Re #98-102 (by Kosh on 2009-01-15 17:22:15 GMT from Spain)
IMHO best review is the review that each user do after testing a distro
but I enjoy reading distro reviws too
BTW I think main topic here should be distros and not Caitlyn or rworkman :)
104 • Speed (by DeniZen on 2009-01-15 19:13:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
I like a nippy distro - heck we all do, but folks dont half get hung up about speed, speed , speed.!
How fast do you need ?! - and where are you headed with it?
Would you notice a 5% or even 15% difference of core speed in everyday use?
I wonder - how long will it stay on that partition even - once you have squeeze every last drop out of it, and then decided .. now what? (C'mon - we have all done it :) )
Unless you are using ancient hardware and/or with less than 256mb Ram - and, if you are also using a relatively recent Distro, the chances are its going to be 'quick enough'. 99% of the time.
KDE4 on a 'big' distro will probably not be for you.
Its about choice - as it always is with 'Linux'.
None of us the same, everybody wanting to be a bit 'niche' but ironically also wanting others to agree that their way is _the_ way ;) , so , If speed, speed and more speed is your number one priority, so be it.
Luckily you have e.g. Slack based Distros, or Arch.
Or ..Source based - if you have the time and the patience (kinda ironic if your quest is speed ? ;) )
I'm growing ever happier with the 'comfy stuff'. I haven't noticed I can do less in a day... in fact ...
105 • openSuSE, Mandriva, Fedora (by Carson McCullers on 2009-01-15 20:39:26 GMT from United States)
The big popular distros are awful in my opinion. Any hint of deals with major corporations (espcially MS) turns me completely away. I tried openSuSE and found it clumsy, heavy, slow, unfriendly and alien compared to Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Mint and Mepis. The latter 4 are easy to install and use and configure and they're plenty fast enough for me. Fedora was grumpy and uncooperative, Mandriva (kde) totally confusing and openSuSE just an overall pain in the *ss.
106 • Some responses (rworkman, Joey, etc...) (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-15 21:28:11 GMT from United States)
Mr. Workman: Ever since I started doing volunteer packaging for Vector Linux (during the latter days of the 5.8 period) I have mentioned that fact in a disclaimer in the opening section of every review I've written about Vector Linux. I will also point out that I have clearly and deliberately exposed the warts and weak points in VL in each review. My review of Wolvix 1.1.0 for O'Reilly was certainly more positive overall than any Vector Linux review I've written to date. I try to be objective to the best of my ability. Since I am human I doubt that's 100%.
Having said all of that I take exception to your claim that I am "affiliated" with Vector Linux. I am not a paid member of the VL team and I receive nothing from them. I make most of my money off of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and I have worked as a contractor for Red Hat. I would say I'd have more to disclose in a review of Red Hat/CentOS/Fedora or any of their derivatives.
I have read repeatedly that wicd was developed for Zenwalk. You tell me it isn't true. Fine, then who did develop it? Straighten me out on this.
I can probably find the link where someone claimed that Pat V. recommended BlueWhite64 for people with 64-bit machines. However, I will take some time this evening and send an e-mail to Mr. Volkerding. If it is not true I will say so. Fair enough?
Joey: Vector Linux isn't English only anymore. I raised the issue of internationalization/localization repeatedly in the forum and in reviews since VL 5.1 and never received a harsh response. Quite the contrary. As of VL 6.0 rc2 the installer supported English, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, and Russian. More languages were supposedly added to rc3 so I'll need to see which ones are included. The selection of languages is determined by the volunteer translators available. I know the VL developers want it in as many languages as possible. I also know that French and Hebrew are in the works but they won't be ready by the time VL 6.0 releases.
I really would like to know who in the VL forum was so rude to you as to elicit such a negative response to the distro. This isn't the first time you've complained about the VL community. I've found that particular community as friendly and helpful as any out there. The developers are accessible and do their best to take user input. Clearly someone treated you poorly but that is so opposite what I've found in that community that I'd like to help straighten things out if I can.
FWIW, the VL developers have nothing against French or French-speaking Canadians. The founder/lead developer is, AFAIK, an American-born Canadian citizen who is not fluent en français. I know for a fact from chatting with him that French is a language he was specifically looking to include, not exclude.
re: speed. Speed of a given distro becomes important when running older legacy hardware (many people do) or on any system with limited resources, including the low end of the netbooks and nettops currently on the market. I agree that on a fast system with current hardware you will only notice a difference if you are pushing the system to its limits. For the casual user it really won't matter much if at all on an up-to-date top notch system. To me it matters since I have a netbook and some older hardware that's still in service.
32-bit vs. native 64-bit matters when you have a large amount of memory, when you are doing high end graphics, especially realtime 3D modeling or rendering, when you are doing a lot of mathematical or scientific computation, or anything heavily CPU intensive. Again, for the casual home user it won't matter much.
Finally, I have yet to see a system where either Windows XP or Xubuntu is faster than any of the Slackware based distros I listed above. If Vector Linux is slow for you compared to Ubuntu I'd have to ask what went wrong with that installation. Perhaps a visit to the Vector Linux forum is in order. It, or any of the Slackware derivatives, should be substantially faster than Xubuntu unless you've done some major tweaking. (Yes, it is certainly possible to speed up an Ubuntu-based system if you know what you are doing.)
Sorry this ran so long again...
107 • Volkerdings comments on Bluewhite64 (by anon on 2009-01-15 22:12:18 GMT from Norway)
As to what is Volkerding's opinion of Bluewhite64, here are his comments, as posted by Bluewhite64's admin on Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:18PM:
"I'm glad to see efforts are going towards Slackware-like work on x86-64 since it's something I'd like to work on eventually myself, and when the time for this comes the more pre-qualified helpers there are out there the easier the official port will be.
Please respect this one instruction, which is that Slackware is a trademark that I've put a great deal of effort into establishing (hopefully) goodwill for, and recognition of. Unless given explicit permission from me, please do not use "Slackware" in the name of your project or in a registered domain name; and I would also prefer that you not use "Slack" either (or close sound-alikes), as it is so strongly associated with Slackware that many people say "Slack" or "Slack Linux" and it is generally understood what they are referring to. Sort of like the "Crappy Tires" up in Canada. Eye-wink My primary concern here is that people don't mistakenly believe that a fork or an unofficial port is officially sanctioned by the Slackware Project, or is Slackware, if it is not. As the information included with Slackware says, once you change any part of it on your own then the derivative OS is no longer officially "Slackware".
Beyond that, do as you like and try to have fun doing it. If the work is done well, I hope I'll be able to merge some of it in back here later on."
http://www.bluewhite64.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?56.post
Whether or not this qualifies as a 'blessing', it is certainly encouragement.
108 • Free Software at Russian Schools - Brief History (by Progress Report on 2009-01-16 01:57:33 GMT from Australia)
http://www.altlinuxatrussianschools.com/?page_id=56&language=en
109 • Re: #106 (by rworkman on 2009-01-16 02:23:44 GMT from United States)
[quote]Mr. Workman: Ever since I started doing volunteer packaging for Vector Linux (during the latter days of the 5.8 period) I have mentioned that fact in a disclaimer in the opening section of every review I've written about Vector Linux.[/quote]
That's entirely possible - I don't recall it in your 12.1 review, but 1) it might be there and I just don't recall it, or 2) perhaps that was before you were affiliated with VL.
[quote]Having said all of that I take exception to your claim that I am "affiliated" with Vector Linux. I am not a paid member of the VL team and I receive nothing from them.[/quote]
Well, if that's how you define "affiliated," then I'm not affiliated with Slackware.
[quote]I have read repeatedly that wicd was developed for Zenwalk. You tell me it isn't true. Fine, then who did develop it? Straighten me out on this.[/quote]
This one is easy: Adam Blackburn originally wrote it, and Dan O'Reilly jumped in at some point thereafter. They are still basically the only two main developers, although there are a couple of Slackware folks with quite a few contributions.
[quote]If it is not true I will say so. Fair enough?[/quote]
Of course. We all make mistakes, and it's easy to accept something as fact if one hears it often enough, even though it may be completely incorrect.
110 • Fixed Debian 'testing' 'Click to mount' in Nautilus (by Chris on 2009-01-16 03:24:23 GMT from United States)
1. Give yourself 'sudo' privileges with 'visudo'.
It's really easy, 'vi' opens in insert mode.
Just copy the 'root' line, writing your username instead of 'root'.
'Ctrl-X' to exit, writing to 'sudoers' not 'sudoers.tmp'
2. Open a terminal and
$ sudo nautilus
3. Click to mount a partition, enumerated in the side pane.
The bottom of the partition icon is made 'bold',
and you're done.
Chris
I followed the link in DWW above,
to http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-dvd,
and installed the dvd default 'gnome' version of Debian.
'Debian' just begs for customization.
It's incomplete as delivered.
I like it like that.
I figure, "No Pain, No Gain".
I don't like a highly personalized Debian, like 'mint'.
111 • #81, #109 (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-16 03:57:57 GMT from United States)
#109: You're right that I didn't put any sort of disclaimer in the review of Slackware 12.1. I don't find it necessary to say that I did work or volunteered for any of three distros when I review a completely different distro. If I had done volunteer work for Slackware than I would have had a disclaimer.
#81: I chuckle when I read someone saying how Slackbuilds.org makes things "easy". For an experienced Slackware user, sure. OTOH, if you want to build AbiWord from source with scripts you still have to build 15 packages from source to get the thing working with all the dependencies. Compare that with point, click, done in all the major distros and most of the Slackware derivatives. To most people outside the Slackware community building with scripts would never be called "easy" even with the scripts written by someone else. For me, with years and years of experience, it certainly isn't difficult -- just time consuming and totally unnecessary.
For a new user you are requiring them to download sources, script, and build as root at the command line. Most folks coming from Windows or Mac, and even a significant percentage of Linux users who don't really want to learn the command line, at least early on, would never call that an attractive path for installing software. A lot of (most?) folks just want their computers to work for them.
People like car analogies, so... Most people want to drive their car. An oil change may be "easy" as far as service goes but I sure don't ever want to have to do one. Getting under the hood, other than perhaps checking that my fluids are OK, is not something I do. Computers are no different to most people.
Yes, I do systems administration and networking for a living. I'm expected to know how to deal with source code. I'm like the car mechanic -- I am not a typical user. From what I've seen of the Slackware community it attracts knowledgeable users and those who want to learn how to get under the hood. That's fine and Slackware is great for that. It just isn't "easy" for most people.
112 • all this back and forth (by john frey on 2009-01-16 05:30:55 GMT from Canada)
I'm with Caitlyn on this one. I think it was the car analogy that confirmed it. While I am able to do a lot on my car I don't frickin want to. I replaced the lifters and cam shaft on my truck many years ago so my mechanical skills are not rudimentary. The last time I worked on one of my vehicles I ended up on my back in the mud and rain replacing a rad hose that was perfectly OK. That will be the last time I mess around in the dirt and grease trying to fix something. Let the professionals do it while I spend my time doing things I enjoy. Like installing Slackware for instance.
Now I've installed Slack a few times over the years and I admire the distro and the philosophy of the distro. Slackware is not easy and for those of you who thought it was the first time you tried it, you are indeed unique and talented individuals. For the rest of us it takes quite some work to figure it out.
For anyone who wonders what all the commotion is about I will give one example that was a stunning example of non-intuitiveness for me on my 1st encounter with Slackware. Here is the directory for the Slackware package list. Easy, eh?
/a
/ap
/d
/e
/f
/k
/kde
/kdei
/l
/n
/t
/tcl
/x
/xap
/y
I don't mean to discourage anyone. Exploring Slackware is a fun and rewarding endeavour. Same for Gentoo, Arch, LFS and others. None of them designed to be point and click, all of them designed for those who like to learn.
Oh, and Caitlyn, I think post #107 shows quite clearly that Patrick has not sanctioned Bluewhite64. Maybe he has blessed it in a statement elsewhere but it would be a very limited blessing I would think.
113 • #112 - "blessing" clarification and please let me get a first hand answer on thi (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-16 06:04:54 GMT from United States)
#112- #107 quotes Patrick circa 2006. What I read was more recent but it was second hand. How about everybody wait and see if I can get a first hand answer from the man himself, OK? I promise to honestly report his response if I get one.
Blessing may have been the wrong word in any case. The word in the original claim was "recommended."
114 • Her obsession just doesn't end (by Dick Cheney on 2009-01-16 14:58:53 GMT from United States)
I have to admit that I'm very tired of Caitlyn's obsession with Slackware. You hate the distro - but please stop posting about it! I simply don't care to see the same comment every week.
SlackBuilds are difficult? Give me a break. You download the script and execute it. Is it possible to be simpler? Well, yeah, you can use one of the available tools to build the packages for you. It's just not honest to say they are difficult. A lot of volunteers put a lot of work into building something for the community and you come along and badmouth their work just because it's not your thing.
And then there's that line again, "For a new user"
Guess what: Slackware is not intended for newbies. That statement alone serves to discredit anything else you have to say. EVERYONE knows Slackware is not intended for newbies.
You found one package that wasn't available for Slackware, so Slackware is difficult? What a joke. Vector has a pretty small package repository so it must be hard because someone somewhere might want to install something for which there is no package in the official repository. Just give it a rest.
115 • Abiword for Slackware (by Dick Cheney on 2009-01-16 15:19:28 GMT from United States)
And in case someone is interested in facts rather than Caitlyn's personal issues, I forgot to mention that you can go to Robby Workman's page to download Abiword plus the six (not 14) dependencies. I'm not entirely sure why someone completely averse to compiling would want to compile Abiword rather than just download it. For that matter, I'm not sure why someone 100% averse to compiling would use Vector as opposed to, say, Debian.
116 • I mean really .. who cares (by Lord Farquhard on 2009-01-16 16:31:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Petty point scoring, and pedantry - to-and-fro.
The 24x7x365 scourge of the laughably entitled Linux 'Community'.
And inevitably the reason that the World of (what we call) Linux is sadly doomed to be a life-long under-achiever.
The Natives are revolting.
117 • What Slackware seems to be. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-16 16:31:46 GMT from United States)
I'll be the first person to admit that I don't really know anything about Slackware.(yet). The take I get on Slackware just from what I read in the comments section, and other reviews, is that it is more of a teaching or learning tool. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Learning new ways to do things is what keeps the computing world fun and interesting and at the end you could have a very fine distro.
118 • RE: 116, What? (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-16 16:34:27 GMT from United States)
What the hell are you talking about and how are you trying to say it?
119 • @ 116 (by Amusing on 2009-01-16 17:04:47 GMT from United States)
The Natives are revolting.
Like the woman in Madison, WI and WKOW that are currently being harangued by members of the Ubuntu community for her mistaken purchase of a Dell with Ubuntu pre-loaded and the subsequent news article that portrayed Ubuntu in a bad light.
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9680186
120 • Absolute linux Rocks (by Amy on 2009-01-16 17:14:37 GMT from United States)
I started using Absolute linux and I love how easy it is to use.
I am still working on getting remote desktop to work but other then that it fast and easy to use.
121 • RE: 117 (by X on 2009-01-16 18:21:12 GMT from United States)
Eddie,
Not true, go here and burn the cd. This is a Slackware based distro that is very easy to use (there are others that are easy as well). I am fairly new to Linux and it was easy for me:
http://wolvix.org/
122 • RE: 121 & 117 (by X on 2009-01-16 18:31:14 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I just realized that you were referring to unadulterated original (vanilla) Slackware. I have no comment on that cause I don't know nothing (much) about it.
123 • @113 (by john frey on 2009-01-16 18:59:07 GMT from Canada)
>#112- #107 quotes Patrick circa 2006. What I read was more recent but it was second hand. How about everybody wait and see if I can get a first hand answer from the man himself, OK?
fair enough.
124 • Wow (by Shawn on 2009-01-16 19:15:11 GMT from United States)
Wow, even with written words I find it amazing how people can misconstrue what was actually written to how they absorbed the message. Caitlyn, from my estimation, LIKES Slackware or else she wouldn't be using it or Slackware-based derivatives. That's like someone saying they like Ubuntu but hate Debian, same principle.
I'm a Linux user and can see 100% of what post #116 is referring to. I also see the point of fixing corrections. I say toe-may-toe you say toe-mah-toe. Bottom line is Linux is, was and will forever be about choice. But from my estimation, the best analogy/anagram that represents Linux on the whole is YMMV (your mileage may vary) due to all the differing opinions and skill levels of computer users worldwide. I like Slackware the way it is, but that does not mean there are "easier" alternatives or "better" ones out there in my opinion; it depends on what I'd need a distro to do and since there are literally hundreds of them to choose from, opinions will vary. Slackware as a server? Heck yeah, without hesitation. On the desktop? It can be done, but it'll take a little work. This is why there are derivatives and why any fork or derivative comes about in the first place: different philosophies and needs.
By the way, Arch is my favorite distro. It's always been the diamond in the rough who lived in the shadows and never got the spotlight. Honestly, I like it that way. :)
125 • RE 121 (by Nobody important on 2009-01-16 19:49:03 GMT from United States)
I would love to use Wolvix, but the last release is to old to support my hardware. I'll be the first on the server when 2.0 hits its mark, though, of which I have no doubt will happen eventually.
Just like PCLinuxOS, Mepis, Zenwalk, Debian, and Vector.
126 • RE: 119 The editor strightened it out. (by Eddie Wilson on 2009-01-16 19:50:20 GMT from United States)
All is well again.
http://addins.wkowtv.com/blogs/behindthenews/?p=80
127 • Re:118 on Post #116 (by Anonymous on 2009-01-16 20:59:58 GMT from United States)
Re:118 on Post #116
What he's saying Eddie, he's a Microsoft Windows troll. Disregard all future comments from the so called wannabe Lord Farquhard. He's a Windows troll bent on bashing everything that is Linux. His comments are meant to inflame and anger Linux users and supporters. He should be banned herw if all he does is broad stroke Linux with hatred and B.S.
This forum, I believe, is to share. promote, discuss, and analyze current and future Linux distros. Trolls offers nothing of substance.
128 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-16 21:13:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re 126, yes, well, Eddie, now we will get, probably, all the OTHER distro fans harping on about how the press have implied Ubuntu = Linux and Linux = Ubuntu, LOLOLOLOL!!! You wait and see!
From this forum and others of course, it is plain that points scoring IS at the forefront of some folk's minds...this distro is better than that distro, but, if you run it on an overclocked GT Turbo Nutter Bastard with octupal cores with blue neon cooling towers it can warp time and space...it does sound a bit like that at times, LOL.
Now ref the article that Eddie provided the link for (thanks, I DID read the comments so your efforts were appreciated, if only by me.) it is plain that "ordinary" Linux, ie not in use by the commercial sector to run things folk see every day but don't think about... has NOT been advertised very well at all in the past for PC users, so to speak...until Canonical came up with Ubuntu.
Of course there have been exceptions, before somebody points out the errror of my ways. But, were you to check out the number of queries/hits/whatever on DW's "league table", Ubuntu sits near at the top, if not the top, week after week. There is a certain irony here...that "free" software needs big business to make it free for all.
I suspect that secretly the hard core backbone of Linux folk don't want Linux to be used by all, I believe they like to maintain an air of mystique that only they the initiated can enjoy. Some of the comments appear to make it easier to become a Jedi than "know" Linux kernel...
We do have folk who appear not to understand the notion Linux is free to ALL to simply use as an OS or to modify to the nth degree. I have read posts from MR Angry of Secretsville about how some people were simply copying his work and passing it off as theirs. And there was me thinking that was the entire ethos of Linux, LOL., improve, innovate and share with all.
Then we hear that some folk are upset if other folk don't post disclaimers every time they post...it REALLY, REALLY does not matter. We don't need chapter and verse about someone's CV/resume...especially from a third party!
In fact the way some folk behave you could be forgiven for thinking this was a Microsoft forum...sorry that was below the belt...
So, can we just accept this forum is for promulgating Linux, NOT about bragging rights, or folk being forced into a corner to explain themselves...by folk who read an article, incorrectly so to speak, in the first place...
129 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-16 21:40:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re 116..er no he wasn't saying that at all...he was simply pointing out that if all folk do on this forum is carp and slag off other distros then nothing gets achieved...sadly he does have a point.
Even "y'man" has dropped the hint folk should try to get along and keep to the point.
The final sentence from 127 says it all. And consider...troll does not just refer to MS devotees.
130 • Retraction, Response to "Dick Cheney", Shawn (by Caitlyn Martin on 2009-01-16 22:48:10 GMT from United States)
First, I did hear back from Patrick Volkerding. He does not approve of or bless any 64-bit Slackware derivative in any way. I paraphrased what was effectively a false report so what I said was also false. I apologize if my error caused any misconceptions or inconvenience.
Shawn has it right. I don't "hate" Slackware. There is more about Slackware I like than I dislike. My Slackware review was decidedly mixed but then again, so are pretty much all my reviews. I have yet to meet the perfect distro.
I am not averse to compiling software. I have probably created more rpm spec files and written more build scripts than most. I do volunteer packaging, remember? I also do it professionally and create in-house repositories, sometimes to work with Red Hat Satellite Server, sometimes just for use with scripts, kind of a roll-your-own based on yum for companies to small to afford the five digit Red Hat price tag on Satellite Server.
What the pseudo Mr. Cheney doesn't want to get is that a lot of the comments in response to my review of Slackware 12.1 and here on DWW claim Slackware is easy for newbies. I've seen plenty of "I started with Slackware and it was easy" posts. Many in the Slackware community DO claim Slackware is for newbies and everyone else too. Sorry, I just don't see it. It seems Mr. Cheney doesn't either, a point we agree on.
What I don't get about the Slackware community is the defensive reaction to my saying what Mr. Cheney admitted is true. Oh, and I'm sorry, most of the business users I deal with and a lot of home users don't find compiling from source with a script easy. It's on the dreaded command line and you have to know about su or sudo and a dot and a slash.. Oh my! Of course it's easy for an experienced Linux hand who isn't shy of the command line. It isn't easy for anyone else and it isn't nearly as easy as point-click-done.
Abiword with the plugins is 15 packages. Don't believe me? Look at the dependency list on Slacky.eu. Without the plugins six may well be correct and functionality is only somewhat crippled.
Compared to the Slackware repository the one for Vector Linux is positively huge. Compared to Debian or Ubuntu it's tiny.
I pretty much migrated to Vector Linux around the time 5.1 came out because it suited my needs better than any other distro I tried. Still, it had gaping holes and I started out by filling them by building packages and writing scripts for my own use. I realized I could share those and help the community. I wrote a VERY mixed review of VL 5.8 which, honestly, was a lot harsher than my Slackware 12.1 review. The response of the Vector Linux developers was that it was "fair". They took it as constructive criticism and went about plugging the holes and fixing things and invited my help. I was very pleasantly surprised by the attitude and the openness of the developers and I've helped out as I have the time ever since.
Vector Linux is far from perfect. I suspect I can name the remaining issues as well as anyone. It has come light years forward in the last two years and I'd like to think I played a small part in making that happen.
So, to answer Dick Cheney's question: what I like so well about Vector is the community and the developers first and foremost. The people make all the difference. After that it's speed and functionality and some very clever code they've written.
131 • A Polished Linux Distro? (by the polisher on 2009-01-17 04:38:56 GMT from Australia)
Q - Is there a Polished Linux Distro?
A - No
Reason - You can't Polish a Turd.
132 • Tne Next Pulitzer (by Shawn on 2009-01-17 08:06:47 GMT from United States)
And the next Pulitzer Prize is going to, you guessed it folks, post #131 for his insight, credibility and journalistic foresight. Way to enlighten the masses with your professional and non-personal facts!
By the way, I'm sure many would argue your facts and come up with a Microsoft Vista answer regarding turds and the ability to polish one. If turd polishing and the ability or capability is of your choosing as a hobby, props to you my friend. Better you than I. :)
133 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-17 08:57:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref 131
And I thought he meant, was there a Polish LANGUAGE distro version and he was confusing it with a third Irish language version.
I suppose I just didn't understand his banter, perhaps he will realise nobody understood him and he won't bother coming back.
134 • RE: 124, 94 (by X on 2009-01-17 11:32:14 GMT from United States)
I had previously stated (erroneously) that Wolvix needs at least 1Gig of RAM to run (#94). This is what it says on the Wolvix website:
"Though Wolvix is fast and has a low memory footprint, it's not specifically developed for old computers, as it features modern software; which has modern hardware requirements. But it should perform well on systems which are not the latest and greatest. You should get acceptable performance from Wolvix and most of it's applications on a computer with a 700Mhz CPU and 256MB RAM".
Someone recently reported the following:
"Wolvix will run in considerably less than 1 GB. It...runs quite happily on my Compaq 1700 Pentium II laptop with 192MB RAM".
Oh and just to make rworkman happy, I should state that I am not doing a review of Wolvix. I am not affiliated with anything and I barely know anything about Linux. I am a newbie trying to learn and pass on what I find to help other newbies wade through the sometimes confusing world of Linux and Linux distros.
By the way, nice post Shawn (#124). Very nicely worded.
135 • @133 (by john frey on 2009-01-17 18:33:30 GMT from Canada)
There's no russian a turd either
136 • No subject (by forest on 2009-01-17 20:41:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
ref 135
Relying on natural elimination then?
137 • re 127 (by Lord Farquhard on 2009-01-18 22:23:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Foolish, rash post. No Surprise.
Try doing / saying something more useful / truthful.
I am a happy Linux user. Its the blinkered bickering Linux 'community' that makes me shudder.
'Evangelists' who spend most hours of most days looking for 'trolls' and looking to stamp upon them, irrespective of any valid point made.
A modicum of fact, or truth is rarely what they seek.
Familiar to you .. Sir?
138 • re 137 (by John Grub on 2009-01-19 02:16:53 GMT from United States)
Your the only one making any sense here. For the last umpteen posts, most are just nonsense or bashing someone else. Hardly any worthwhile comments. No one's experience with their favorite disto or helpful tips, just trivel.
Number of Comments: 138
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Peach OSI
Peach OSI was an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution featuring the Xfce desktop customised to resemble Apple's OS X user interface. The releases follow Ubuntu's long-term support (LTS) branches. Besides a standard desktop edition, the project also provides more specialist releases for netbooks, Raspberry Pi single-board computers, home theatre systems, as well as a customised build designed for children.
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