| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 271, 22 September 2008
Welcome to this year's 38th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! The feature story of the this week's issue is package management or, more precisely, an attempt to create a command-line package management cheatsheet that would cover just about any Linux distribution available today. The first quick version is out today, but we hope to bring you a much improved and more detailed one after this week's feedback and suggestions. In the news section, OpenSolaris releases first test images for its upcoming version 2008.11, Fedora provides a further update on the recent compromise of its servers, Ubuntu responds to the accusations that it contributes little to the Linux kernel, and Phoronix runs a performance benchmark on four different Linux distributions installed on the ASUS Eee PC. Also worth a read, an interesting interview with a senior OpenSolaris engineer and further evidence that Gentoo Linux is no longer that innovative and trend-setting distribution it was just five years ago. Finally, a very happy GNOME 2.24 release week to all the fans of the popular desktop!
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in ogg (9.7MB) and mp3 (9.7MB) formats (many thanks to Russ Wenner)
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
Linux package management cheatsheet
Package management is probably the most distinctive feature of any Linux distribution. While the current trend among most of the major projects is to offer some sort of a clickable interface where users can select a package and install it with a mouse click (e.g. Debian's Synaptic or Mandriva's Drakrpm), these types of programs are generally just graphical front-ends to the low-level utilities that manage the tasks associated with installing packages on a Linux system. And even though many desktop Linux users feel much more comfortable installing packages through these intuitive graphical tools, there is no denying that command-line package management offers two excellent features not available in any graphical package management utility: power and speed.
One problem that many distro-hoppers and operating system enthusiasts encounter is having to master (or relearn) a set of package management commands each time they switch from one distribution group to another. Additionally, the package management tools tend to evolve, with new features and even new commands added to every new version. Some distributions, as demonstrated recently by openSUSE and its brand new ZYpp tool, go as far as developing a completely new package management utility. Others, like Debian, now discourage the use of some established utilities (apt-get) in favour of better alternatives (aptitude) for system upgrades. All these changes make it hard to keep up with different distributions and their package management tools.
So as a feature article of this week's DistroWatch Weekly, we decided to do something different: create a package management cheatsheet that would list popular package management commands in Linux distributions. The first version of this is available in the tabular format below, but we suspect that this won't be the final one. As we receive feedback and suggestions to add tasks and corrections to possible errors, we will expand the table, then convert it into one or two printable formats (e.g. OASIS OpenDocument spreadsheet and PDF), so that everybody can download it, print it out, and keep it handy for that next big distro switch.
So without further ado, here is the initial table listing a few popular package management tasks in Debian and Debian-based distributions (Ubuntu, Linux Mint, etc), openSUSE, Fedora and Fedora-based distributions (CentOS, Red Hat, etc), Mandriva, Slackware (using slackpkg, which is not part of a standard Slackware installation, but is available in the /extra repository), Arch Linux, rPath Linux and its derivatives, and Pardus Linux.
||apt-get install <pkg>
||zypper install <pkg>
||yum install <pkg>
||apt-get remove <pkg>
||zypper remove <pkg>
||yum erase <pkg>
|Update package list
||zypper addrepo <path> <name>
||(add <repo> to /etc/yum.repos.d/)
||urpmi.addmedia <name> <path>
||zypper removerepo <name>
||(remove <repo> from /etc/yum.repos.d/)
||apt-cache search <pkg>
||zypper search <pkg>
||yum search <pkg>
|List installed packages
||slackpkg install <pkg>
||pacman -S <pkg>
||conary update <pkg>
||pisi install <pkg>
||slackpkg remove <pkg>
||pacman -R <pkg>
||conary erase <pkg>
||pisi remove <pkg>
|Update package list
||pisi add-repo <name> <path>
||pisi remove-repo <name>
||pacman -Ss <pkg>
||conary query <pkg>
||pisi search <pkg>
|List installed packages
Now, it's your turn. What other package management tasks do you frequently perform that you'd like to see added to the above table? What other distributions would you like to see included? Would you welcome an expansion to non-Linux operating systems, such as FreeBSD and OpenSolaris? Should we categorise the tasks for better usability? Have you spotted any errors? Or commands that have better alternatives? If so, please leave a comment in the discussion area below or send us an email (see the bottom of this page for the general DistroWatch email address).
Testing OpenSolaris 2008.11, Fedora intrusion update, Ubuntu and kernel patches, netbook benchmark comparison, Gentoo decline
Besides the major Linux distributions and BSDs, another free operating system that is preparing for a new release later this year is OpenSolaris. Although its adoption levels seem low and reserved mostly for developers and technology enthusiasts, the project's inaugural release in May 2008 was reasonably well received, especially from the technological point of view. Now working towards its second official release in November this year, OpenSolaris has yet to publish a comprehensive list of features for its upcoming version 2008.11, but those readers who follow the very active OpenSolaris blogs can keep up-to-date with what's happening in the world of Sun's open source operating system. If you are interested in helping to test OpenSolaris 2008.11, you have two options. One of them is to keep the installed base system current with the available tools - just beware of the caveats. The second option is to download the most recent pre-release ISO image: "osol-0811-98 ISOs, the pre-release version of OpenSolaris 2008.11, based on Nevada build 98, are now available in two flavors: osol-0811-98.iso (747MB, supports primary languages and uses gzip compression) and osol-0811-98-global.iso (661MB, supports all languages and uses LZMA compression). Please verify the checksums." Happy testing!
Still on the subject of OpenSolaris, a web site called How Software is Built has published an interesting interview with Jim Grisanzio, a senior program manager, OpenSolaris infrastructure engineering team: "From the perspective of technical advantages, we got a lot of engineering credibility for Solaris 10. There was a big upgrade between 9 and 10, with things like DTrace, Zones, and ZFS. If you ask engineers and other technical people, they would point those things out as being competitive with Linux. In terms of OpenSolaris, those things get most of the attention. ZFS probably is the most important new technology on the whole project, from an open source perspective. It's a new file system, and it has also been ported over to Mac OS. I also just read recently that there's a port started for DTrace, over to Linux. These are the bits of technology where many people would say we have competitive advantage over Linux, although some engineers will argue against that. The Linux community has a vast community and developer base, and that's what we're trying to create. That's where they're mature and we're young."
* * * * *
Following some criticism of Red Hat for the way the company handled the the recent security breach of Fedora download servers, Paul Frields has published a Fedora intrusion update. In it, the Fedora project leader has promised a more detailed report once the investigation is completed: "As always, our team of system administrators makes incremental improvements constantly. Sometimes these improvements involve temporary outages, and such outages may occur in the future as part of normal operations. At this time, however, we believe Fedora's recovery efforts are complete. To reiterate our previous statement, we have not found any security vulnerabilities in any Fedora software as a result of our efforts. The security investigation into the intrusion is still in progress. When that investigation is completed, the Fedora Project's intention is to publish a more detailed report on the matter."
* * * * *
In the meantime, Ubuntu has gone through some rough times of negative publicity during the week. First, it was Novell's Greg Kroah-Hartman, a kernel hacker, who, in a keynote speech at last week's Linux Plumbers Conference, accused Canonical of not contributing enough to the Linux kernel: "In the past three years, from the 2.6.15 kernel to 2.6.27-rc6, Canonical has had 100 patches in the Linux kernel, which means they did 0.10068% of all of the kernel development for the past 3 years. They are ranked 79th of all companies doing kernel development." As expected, these accusations were quickly met by strong objections from the Ubuntu developer community. Matt Zimmerman in Greg Kroah-Hartman's Linux Ecosystem: "Greg considers the 'Linux ecosystem' to be GCC, Binutils, the Linux kernel, X.Org, and a handful of other projects. He disregards most of the desktop stack (including GNOME and KDE), all desktop and server applications, and most anything else that is recognizable to an end user as 'Linux'."
Next, it was the "quiet" addition of licensed media codecs and DVD playback software to the Ubuntu Store, only announced in a Canonical blog, rather than in a formal press release. But as some observed, this decision will almost certainly irk some Ubuntu fans: "It is hard to imagine that Canonical won't get a certain amount of grief for this offering, and that doesn't seem right. On the one hand, they aren't able to legally redistribute these codecs. So instead, they've opted to open an area in the storefront that makes downloading and installing purchased codecs work similarly to installing with Synaptic. ... The bittersweetness? Some will see this as another example of how proprietary formats are hopelessly broken, defy the law, and use the freely available but legally questionable codecs without a word. There are others who will be reminded (or discover for the first time) that the laws governing technology and intellectual property need revision, and rather than circumventing the law, will push for change."
* * * * *
The Linux netbook market has been growing steadily over the last few months as new models appear almost weekly (see this announcement about the new Toshiba NB100, shipping with Ubuntu 8.04). But as the choice of hardware grows, so does the number of available Linux distributions for these products (see this announcement about the new Mandriva Mini). So which distribution offers the best performance on these ultra-portable laptops? Phoronix has done a benchmark comparison of four distributions - Xandros Desktop for Eee PC, Fedora 10 Alpha, Ubuntu 8.10 Alpha 4 and Mandriva Linux 2009 Beta 2 - running on ASUS Eee PC 901. The conclusions? "In some tests the stock Eee Linux distribution was running quite slow and placing far behind Mandriva, Fedora, and Ubuntu, but when it came to the solid-state disk performance Xandros had the lead. Overall though, it appears that Ubuntu 8.10 Alpha 4 had delivered the best performance on the Intel Atom architecture. These are just our initial figures though. We are still running some additional benchmarks on the Eee PC 901 to look for the best Linux OS, but it looks like it is a toss-up right now depending upon how the system will be used. With Ubuntu 8.10 now using the Linux 2.6.27 kernel, the results of the final release will certainly be different."
* * * * *
|Released Last Week
Pardus Linux 2008.1
Ekin Meroğlu has announced the release of Pardus Linux 2008.1: "We're happy to announce Pardus Linux 2008.1 'Hyaena Hyaena', the first update release in Pardus 2008 series. It contains all the bug fixes, enhancements and new feature additions since the release of Pardus Linux 2008. Features: new and improved Network Manager with Ad-Hoc and 802.1x wireless support; two live CD variants with KDE 3 and KDE 4; support for Swedish; international installation CD with support for 11 languages; updated applications - KDE 3.5.10, Linux kernel 18.104.22.168 with improved hardware support, Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1, OpenOffice.org 2.4.1, KDE 4.1.1; hundreds of free software applications with fewer bugs and updated to the most recent versions...." Read the release announcement and release notes for more details.
Kris Moore has announced the release of PC-BSD 7.0, a user-friendly, desktop operating system based on FreeBSD: "The PC-BSD team is pleased to announce PC-BSD version 7.0 'Fibonacci'. This release marks a milestone for PC-BSD, by moving to the latest FreeBSD 7-STABLE and also incorporating the KDE 4.1.1 desktop. Users will immediately notice the improved visual interface that KDE 4.1.1 offers, as well as a large improvement in hardware support and speed from the update to FreeBSD 7-STABLE. PC-BSD 7.0 also offers a large and growing library of self-contained PBI files available for installation, and improvements for other locales on our PBI Directory web site. This release also offers new methods of installation, including a DVD, USB and Internet / network install." See the release announcement, release notes and changelog for further information.
PC-BSD 7.0 - a cutting-edge desktop distribution based on the latest FreeBSD
(full image size: 410kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Foresight Linux 1.0 "Kids"
Ken VanDine has announced the release of Foresight Linux 1.0 "Kid's" edition: "Foresight Kid's edition is now available for your kid's enjoyment. The Kid's edition features a number of education and entertainment applications, a customized GNOME desktop environment, and an innovative set of excellent, up-to-date software applications. The Foresight Kid's edition features the following applications: Tux Paint, an award-winning drawing program for children ages 3 - 12; Tux Typing, and educational typing tutor for children; GCompris, an educational software suite that includes many different activities for children ages 2 - 10; Tux, of Math Command, an education arcade game starring Tux based on the class game 'Missile Command'; games - SuperTux, SuperTuxKart, FooBilliard, GNU Chess, Secret Maryo Chronicles...." Read the release announcement and release notes for further information.
Foresight Linux 1.0 "Kid's" edition - a distribution designed for children aged 3 - 12
(full image size: 618kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
PLD Live 2008.09
PLD Live is a live CD edition of PLD Linux, an independent distribution aimed at more advanced users and system administrators. Version 2008.09, announced yesterday, boots into a GNOME 2.22 desktop environment and provides a graphical system installer: "PLD Live is a live CD project to let you test PLD Linux without installing it to a hard drive. It is also useful for rescuing damaged systems. Features: based on Th (3.0) release; powered by GNOME 2.22; automatic handling of both wired and wireless networks; graphical installation wizard to put PLD on a hard disk (experimental); fast boot time; enabled for updates. The most important software: kernel: 22.214.171.124, GNOME: 2.22.3, NetworkManager: 0.7svn." Visit the sub-project's home page to release announcement.
PLD Live 2008.09 - a live CD edition of PLD designed for rescue and system administration tasks
(full image size: 48kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
New distributions added to database
- Syllable Server. Syllable Server is a small, efficient server operating system built to be similar to Syllable Desktop, but on the Linux kernel. Due to its light weight, Syllable Server is exceptionally suitable as a virtualisation platform for running other operating systems (or multiple instances of itself), using the QEMU emulator.
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 29 September 2008. Until next week,
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Package managers (by CombatWombat on 2008-09-22 10:15:36 GMT from New Zealand) |
Excellent article, thanks. How about Package rebuilding? A little more technical, but sometimes necessary. :-)
2 • No subject (by chocobanana on 2008-09-22 10:16:02 GMT from Netherlands)
Great idea with the Linux package management cheatsheet.
I would be great to also add the commands for installing local individual packages to that cheatsheet, i.e. dpkg and rpm options
3 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 10:17:50 GMT from United States)
I'm sorry-- but an article was done on Gentoo, yet you don't even include it in the package list you just did? :/ [No, I'm not considering that 'not loving' Gentoo, but I do find it a little saddening still]
So, I'll provide one for you. ^.^
Install Package: emerge
Remove Package: emerge -C
Update Package List: emerge --sync | layman -S [for added repositories]
Upgrade System: emerge -NuDa world
List Repositories: layman -L
Add Repository: layman -a
Remove Repository: layman -d
Search Package: emerge --search
List Installed Packages: cat /var/lib/portage | more
I do think this is a really good idea. I personally won't exactly use it (I don't plan on switching from Gentoo any time soon), however when I first started off into the FOSS world, I tried a new distribution weekly (note: I didn't start with Ubuntu. But I suppose you could have guessed that from me still having curiosity OTHER than *buntu) and I know something like this would have been useful. Hopefully some people still exist like that, and haven't gotten into the all "Ubuntu" craze and still want to try different distributions with different factors, including package managers.
You should really keep it as a link on the homepage me thinks :P
4 • RE: 3 Gentoo (by ladislav on 2008-09-22 10:32:26 GMT from Taiwan)
Sorry, I wanted to keep this version down to binary distributions, that's why I didn't include Gentoo, Sorcerer, Lunar, Source Mage, FreeBSD (although FreeBSD does have a binary package management option too), etc. But I'll be happy to add them to the expanded version next week.
Thanks a lot for your info - please keep the suggestions coming!
5 • Package managers commands (by Red Devil on 2008-09-22 10:33:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
Really nice idea for an article - though I fear that any Windows users reading it may run screaming into the hills when they realise just how many different ways there are to administer a Linux system!
6 • Suggestions (by ou_ryperd at 2008-09-22 10:34:13 GMT from South Africa)
1) I only use the Smart package manager. It's not here. It's not distro-specific, but still...
2) Mention the underlaying package management system, i.e. dpkg, rpm and so on.
7 • re 3 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 10:34:34 GMT from Australia)
Gentoo is a near dead project get over it and move on, Arch Linux is better if you want to be able to configure your own machine
8 • Package manager (by Caraibes on 2008-09-22 10:55:30 GMT from Dominican Republic)
-What about "apt-get autoclean" ?
9 • Kubuntu & Xubuntu 8.10 Alpha 6 reviewed (by Andrew on 2008-09-22 10:58:46 GMT from Australia)
Xubuntu 8.10 Alpha 6: http://www.headshotgamer.com/review.aspx?id=75
Kubuntu 8.10 Alpha 6: http://www.headshotgamer.com/review.aspx?id=74
10 • Fedora add/remove repository (by Alexandru on 2008-09-22 11:01:58 GMT from Germany)
I don't use any Fedora-based distro, but it seems like a mistake:
Add repository: (add to /etc/yum.repos.d/)
Remove repository: (add to /etc/yum.repos.d/)
May be you mean:
Add repository: (add to /etc/yum.repos.d/)
Remove repository: (remove from /etc/yum.repos.d/)
11 • No subject (by Godhack on 2008-09-22 11:11:11 GMT from Norway)
If gentoo is dead then arch is zombie. New Debian Lenny will be ready soon. The best way to move now.
12 • Linux Mint 5 "KDE" (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 11:12:08 GMT from Sweden)
- This was a "stable" release
- It was officially "announced" last Monday, on the forums, on the blog, on our main site, and even by email to distrowatch.
- It is the second most significant even related to Linux Mint in the last six months after the release of the Main Edition.
And it's in "Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases"? If you're not going to report on it then don't report at all.
On a related note, x64 RC1 was NOT announced and NOT released yet so I'm surprised to see it on Distrowatch's main page in the "New distributions" section.
I've been amazed to see two ALPHA reports (TinyMe ALPHA 1 and Ubuntu ALPHA 6) and not a single word on Mint KDE STABLE... we talked about it by email Ladislav and you explained the reasons but now seeing it in "Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases" that's just plain ridiculous.
I hope the maintainer doesn't take it seriously. I know how much work went into this CE and I would personally feel insulted by this.
13 • Package cheatsheet (by Gigi on 2008-09-22 11:18:12 GMT from Singapore)
Maybe add "apt-get -f install"?
that command has saved my day more than a handful of times.
14 • RE: Linux Mint 5 "KDE" (by ladislav on 2008-09-22 11:21:16 GMT from Taiwan)
Sorry Clem, if your "officially announced" means one line saying that "it has been released, get it here", then how can you expect others to write more about it? Surely, "the second most significant release" deserves better than that...
15 • Addition of other *nix in the cheatsheet (by Rob on 2008-09-22 11:22:59 GMT from Canada)
I feel it would be great to see some of the other *nix's out there added to the cheatsheet. Package management is often seen as a hurdle when deciding to check something new out. So I think it would be great to see a side by side comparison of linux's and (open)Solaris and Free,Open,NetBSD's.
16 • More task to "Linux package management cheatsheet" (by Vikas on 2008-09-22 11:36:24 GMT from India)
Can you add "dry run" for package installation. I don't know if other package managers have this option but emerge (gentoo) has this and very useful to check what all will be done before actual installation/upgrade:
Task: dry run
emerge (gentoo) : emerge -pv
I second the idea to link the complete list from home page.
17 • RE: Linux Mint 5 "KDE" (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 11:39:33 GMT from Sweden)
As always we publish short announcements and longer release notes.
Release notes: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa_kde.php
Announcements: http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=293 and http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16871
It's one thing to decide that this event isn't newsworthy or that it doesn't deserve people's attention, it's another to misplace it. It doesn't qualify as being a "development or unannounced" release so can it be removed from this DW Weekly please?
You explained to me by email that we had "too many" editions and that we were releasing too much. If you don't want to report on everything that's happening it's your choice but I don't understand the way you filter information... you reported on KDE RC1 but not on KDE Stable.. you reported on Fluxbox CE.. but not on KDE CE.. it just doesn't make sense to me.
What about x64 RC1, why is it on distrowatch before being officially released? Can this be removed too?
I'd like things to be clear. If you don't report on anything then let's go through the criterias. How many "flavors" are "allowed" per edition? What's the "necessary" delay between an RC and its STABLE release? How exactly does something qualify on distrowatch? How do we prevent absurd situations like this in the future?
No offence to Shane (Fluxbox CE maintainer) but how is the release of Fluxbox CE RC1 remotely as newsworthy as the release of the stable KDE CE?
Let's agree on the scope of distrowatch, on what it covers and what it doesn't so we avoid unpleasant surprises like this one.
18 • RE: 17 Linux Mint "KDE" (by ladislav on 2008-09-22 12:00:17 GMT from Taiwan)
OK, let's go through this again:
1. Firstly, I find your one-line release announcements ridiculously inadequate. Normally, most distro maintainers are happy to publish at least one or two paragraphs of information about any new release - a basic feature list, what's new, what has improved, etc.
2. However, I accept these one-line announcement if they are accompanied by good release notes or at least a decent changelog. In the case of Mint 5 "KDE" this wasn't the case - at the time of the release the release notes did not contain even a basic feature list or a changelog (you admitted as much yourself) and they did not change at all between the RC1 and the final release.
Please note that the announcement about the release of Linux Mint 5 "KDE" _was_ published - in the "Latest Distributions" section in the left column on the main page. So it _was_ newsworthy, the same as the Linux Mint Fluxbox edition. The only difference was that the maintainer of the Fluxbox edition published excellent release notes, while the maintainer of the KDE edition did not.
In short, if you want to see your distro announced in the main news on DistroWatch, please make an effort at writing up a decent release announcement or release notes so that I have something to quote and link to. Otherwise it will only show up in the "Latest Distributions" section.
19 • RE: 17 Linux Mint "KDE" (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 12:07:56 GMT from Sweden)
Can we at least have KDE CE removed from "Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases" on this DW Weekly? It's not only wrong, it's insulting.
And please also remove x64 RC1 from the main page, this wasn't released by us yet. You're exposing an ISO which could potentially change.
I think we'll agree to disagree on the rest. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
20 • gentoo emerge (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 12:08:04 GMT from France)
emerge does binary install too.
What about slackware's installpkg, which is available on the default install?
Also, maybe you should talk about the underlying format or the packages: tgz, rpm, deb, ebuid etc...
Maybe list features of the package manager: does it handle dependancies? orphaned package? diff update?
21 • slackware - list installed (by Andrew on 2008-09-22 12:10:04 GMT from United States)
Great guide! Though, for slackware, /var/log/packages/ is a directory, so you need to use "ls," not "cat."
22 • Suggestions (by dooooo on 2008-09-22 12:19:21 GMT from Jordan)
1) Maybe 'apt-get dist-upgrade' is better than 'apt-get upgrade' . The latter only works with stable releases properly .
2) Searching package names only OR including descriptions . The latter is time-consuming in older hardware .
apt-cache search -n # Search package names only
23 • #22 (by dooooo on 2008-09-22 12:22:40 GMT from Jordan)
Sorry but part of the last line was removed automatically .
apt-cache search -n package # Search package names only
24 • Package Management Cheat Sheet (by UZ64 on 2008-09-22 12:31:12 GMT from United States)
I think creating and maintaining a "cheatsheet" of basic commands for different distributions is a great idea. Some distros I think should get some focus:
Then, once any inaccuracies are fixed, add the BSDs and OpenSolaris.
25 • querying the package of a file (by uhuu on 2008-09-22 12:32:51 GMT from Estonia)
A very handy command I use in Fedora is:
rpm -qf filename
This will return the package name of the file (of course only if the file is from a package). Probably other distros have similar commands available.
26 • Package cheatsheet (by Mauro on 2008-09-22 12:33:00 GMT from Argentina)
I think the Linux package management cheatsheet is a great idea. I'll add to the proposal of *nixes by Rob, and ask for the inclusion of another command to search for a filename from installed packages. I think in Debian that can be done with
dpkg -S filename-search-pattern, or
dpkg --search filename-search-pattern
As always, congrats on such an excellent site.
27 • Guadalinex and USB install (by DistroWatch Fan on 2008-09-22 12:34:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
Guadalinex has a useful facility, creating a live USB boot without the hassle.
Other Ubuntu based distros should copy that function.
here it is http://ftp.cica.es/mirrors/Linux/guadalinex/guadalinex-lobo/pool/main/g/guadalinex-asistente-usb/
28 • RE: 19 Linux Mint "KDE" (by ladislav on 2008-09-22 12:39:45 GMT from Taiwan)
It's not only wrong, it's insulting.
Wrong and insulting? And how about publishing one-line release announcements and pathetic release notes? Isn't that wrong and insulting to your users?
All I ever ask any distro maintainer is to write up one paragraph (just ONE paragraph!) which states what has been released, lists the main features and mentions the most important changes since the previous release. Is that too much to ask for?
29 • RE: querying the package of a file (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 12:42:50 GMT from Sweden)
Yes, that's really handy. In Debian distros:
"dpkg -L package" shows the files delivered with the package
"dpkg -S filename" shows the package which delivered that file
"aptitude show package" also provides a lot of info.
"apt-cache policy" gives info on which repositories are more important than others (used for pinning).
For power users there's a great tool called "wajig". It's very good at finding updates, reverse dependencies..etc.
We also have a shortcut for "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list" called "apt sources" (that was put in there out of pure laziness) :)
I was really impressed with emerge lately (I still don't know half of what I need it for though...), it's extremely powerful.
30 • RE: 28 Linux Mint "KDE" (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 12:45:36 GMT from Sweden)
Let's leave it there and thanks for removing the x64 announcement.
31 • Mint (by Gene Venable on 2008-09-22 13:02:10 GMT from United States)
I had no idea that the KDE Mint had been released, so I'm happy to find out. Now I have to decide between the Fluxbox Mint and the KDE Mint. I found the Fluxbox Mint not that impressive (for example, the Slit was unused, though of course I found a way to use it), so I think I'll go with KDE.
32 • Logic? Where are you?? ;) (by Udo on 2008-09-22 13:08:18 GMT from Germany)
"Others, like Debian, now discourage the use of some established utilities (apt-get) in favour of better alternatives (aptitude) for system upgrades."
So why don't you update the cheat sheet with the aproriate aptitude commands??
33 • #26,29 (by dooooo on 2008-09-22 13:10:10 GMT from Jordan)
I think 'dpkg -S filename' only works with installed packages .
'apt-file search filename' should work with all the packages in the database .
apt-file might not be installed by default .
34 • apt with alias (by Stanislav Hoferek on 2008-09-22 13:13:18 GMT from Slovakia)
alias used in Greenie to make apt-get even more easy:
sudo apt-get install = i
sudo apt-get remove = r
sudo apt-get remove --purge = rp
sudo apt-get update = u
sudo apt-get upgrade = ug
gksu gedit /etc/apt/sources.list = zdroje
apt-cache search = hladaj
35 • Mint KDE (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 13:15:06 GMT from United States)
OK...I am confused. Is Mint KDE being left off of the announcements because there are too many Mint distributions or because there was no enough information provided in the release announcement?
If it is because there are too many Mint distributions that is troubling considering how Ubuntu spams this site with every alpha, beta and RC they can come up with every couple of weeks for a half dozen different distributions.
If it is because of inadequate release notes, then someone needs to get off their hiney, take responsibility and write them. Mint is a very good distibution and KDE makes it even better for many folks.
36 • delete package on Gentoo (by areuareu on 2008-09-22 13:15:44 GMT from France)
I would suggest
emerge -aC package
37 • SMART package manager (by Federico Kereki on 2008-09-22 13:15:55 GMT from Uruguay)
The SMART package manager should be considered. I use openSUSE, but prefer SMART to YAST, zypper, apt-get, and all other possibilities.
38 • pacman usage (by Allan on 2008-09-22 13:27:04 GMT from Australia)
It is better to use "pacman -Ss " for searching packages as "pacman -Qs " only searches installed packages. Also, "pacman -Q" is sufficient to list installed packages - using the "pacman -Qii" lists all package info which is excessive
39 • Package Managers (by Flavio on 2008-09-22 13:28:03 GMT from Brazil)
Add Slapt-get for GoblinX, Zenwalk, Wolvix and many other Slackware based with dependencies check.
Install package -> slapt-get --install
Remove package-> slapt-get --remove
Update package list -> slapt-get --update
Update system -> slapt-get --upgrade
List repositories -> cat /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc
Add repositories -> edit /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc
Remove repositories -> edit /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc
Search package -> slapt-get --search
List installed packages -> ls /var/log/packages/
40 • Mint distributions? (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 13:30:11 GMT from Germany)
Linux Mint is a nice Ubuntu desktop theme. I wouldn't call five packages of difference a distro....
41 • @32 (by Anon on 2008-09-22 13:40:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
I was thinking the same thing.
There is ongoing argument about the respective merits of apt and aptitude, so, if possible, why not have the commands for both?
42 • Linux Mint "KDE" (by Zippy on 2008-09-22 13:47:11 GMT from Canada)
As a fan of KDE and a person who gets most of my news about Linux from DistroWatch, i was well aware that Linux Mint 5 KDE Community Edition had been released. When i see a new release i am interested in, i always go to the distributions website to find out more. In the end, how they organize their information is more important to me than how DistroWatch does it. DistroWatch is just a starting point.
43 • Linux Mint (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 13:47:49 GMT from United States)
I thought the point of distrowatch was to report on events in the linux world. Not to censor information. Even if the infomation is not a great amount it still deserves to be reported as newbies might not otherwise know what is happening. I am very disappointed in distrowatch at this moment. The right course of action would have been to make an anouncement immediately on your site about the mint KDE release.
44 • package management cheatsheet (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 13:53:58 GMT from Finland)
I really enjoy using Source Mage's package manager, Sorcery, because it gives me the sense of being in control. Sorcery is written in BASH and it installs packages by executing BASH scripts ("spells") that download source packages directly from developers' web sites, and then it compiles and installs them on your system with minimal trouble.
Sorcery can be used straight from the command line, but it has also an ncurses frontend that you can use to configure Sorcery, to browse the available packages, and to execute Sorcery commands. Sorcery has also a simple GUI frontend ("kdesu xsorcery" or "gksu xsorcery") that has the same features as the ncurses frontend.
So here's a list of the basic Sorcery commands, in case Ladislav wants to extend his GNU/Linux package management cheatsheet to source-based distros.
Source Mage GNU/Linux:
Install package: cast
Remove package: dispel
Update package list: scribe update
Update system: sorcery upgrade
List repositories: scribe index
Add repository: scribe add
Remove repository: scribe remove
Search package: gaze search
List installed packages: gaze installed
Update package list && update system: sorcery system-update
Rebuild all installed packages: sorcery rebuild
Read more about SMGL package management:
45 • Slackware package management (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-22 13:55:39 GMT from Germany)
First of all, I second the nomination for slapt-get -- offhand I don't know any distros that use slackpkg -- I may be wrong, I'm not much of a distro-hopper -- whereas slapt-get is used by several popular projects (as well as mine ;-)
1. For Slackware, I disagree with slackpkg also because it's not in the default install. At least for the basic operations (installation/removal) I'd recommend using the standard pkgtools -- installpkg, upgradepkg, removepkg -- since you'd need to know those to install slackpkg in the first place.
2. I'd recommend listing OpenBSD. Someone with more experience should probably finish this for me, but from what I remember:
Install Package: pkg_add
Remove Package: pkg_delete
Update Package List: automatic?
Upgrade System: must upgrade/reinstall from CD
List Repositories: ???
Add Repository: for the official repo: export PKG_PATH=ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/`uname -r`/packages/`machine -a`/
Remove Repository: just change PKG_PATH line
Search Package: ???
List Installed Packages: pkg_info
46 • Mint (by Anon on 2008-09-22 14:07:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
It’s great to see an updated Mint KDE edition, but I’m put off by the not-CD-friendly size. Are there any plans to cut this down?
Also, I recently tried to download Mint since I’d heard good things about it as a newbie-friendly distro and was keen to try it out as a potential first distro for family. Unfortunately, my experience went somewhat along these lines:
1) I want a KDE edition. It doesn’t yet exist for the new version.
2) Ah well, I’ll download the KDE CE for the previous Mint version
3) Bugger, it doesn’t seem to be accessible.
4) Ah well, I’ll forego it and just go with the Gnome.
5) I shall download the torrent. Bugger, it doesn’t seem to be seeded at all.
6) Ah well, I’ll download from a mirror.
7) First mirror – doesn’t connect at all.
8) Second mirror – connects, downloads a few meg, errors out.
9) Third mirror – downloads the entire file, hurrah!
10) Open up k3b to burn the iso … sound of crashing glass as it turns out it’s corrupted.
I’m starting to suspect it just exists in theory!
47 • Gentoo n stuff (by davemc on 2008-09-22 14:15:05 GMT from United States)
Hi all. So sad to see Gentoo dying the slow death, but it is what it is. At least Ladislav is calling it the way he sees it rather than sugar coating what we all know to be true now. At least it has spawned Sabayon, which will live and thrive to carry on the Gentoo legacy.
Nice bit on Package Managers. Perhaps a collaborative website could be put up to expand on that idea?
48 • No subject (by Sokraates on 2008-09-22 14:15:21 GMT from Austria)
"Linux Mint is a nice Ubuntu desktop theme. I wouldn't call five packages of difference a distro...."
Linux Mint is more than just a new theme:
*) altered package selections
*) NEW tools
This is just what I know without actually using Linux Mint.
Regarding aptitude: it should deffinitely be added! Here are the commands:
Install package aptitude install
Remove package aptitude remove
Update package list aptitude update
Update system aptitude safe-upgrade
List repositories cat /etc/apt/sources.list
Add repository (edit /etc/apt/sources.list)
Remove repository (edit /etc/apt/sources.list)
Search package aptitude search
List installed packages dpkg -l
49 • Linux Mint (by John Coleman on 2008-09-22 14:20:34 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint is more than a Ubuntu desktop theme as our anonymous "friend" from Germany seems to think. The negative connotations of this statement did not escape me nor is it appreciated.
As far as I am concerned Linux Mint takes Ubuntu and makes it better and by better I mean that it makes it easier to use "out of the box" and this is something to praise as opposed to "make fun of it". Granted there is more going on than just this but to me this is (easier out-of-the-box functionality) a major draw.
I've only tried a few Linux distros being somewhat new to the whole Linux thing and while there were several that I liked (most notably Ubuntu, Fedora and openSUSE) I found Linux Mint is the one I choose to make my home.
Kudos to Clement Lefebvre and the entire Linux Mint team.
You know there is a line in this week's news about the decline of Gentoo and I quote: "The most interesting thing about the current state of Gentoo is that it's a very clear (and well documented) example of how the success of a large open source project, regardless of the personal devotion of its user base, is tightly coupled to the strength of its leadership."
When I read this I thought to myself ... Clement Lefebvre would never let this happen to Linux Mint. In short as a Linux Mint user I feel that this ship has a really good and dedicated Captain at the helm.
50 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 14:23:07 GMT from Canada)
if we had to add entries for every *buntu spin-off, like mint, and about two dozen others, we'd have a real waste of space...
for that matter, pkg mgmt in *buntu is really just an off shoot from debian, right?
imho, (and i'm guessing quite a few of the others around here), it does not really qualify as a distro unless it has a unique approach...
(no offence to the mage users, but isn't 'cast' and 'dispell' just shortcuts to emerge?)
51 • Sour Mint (by MR on 2008-09-22 14:39:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks to Clement Lefebvre's comments here, when I get home today I'm removing Mint from both of the systems I have running it right now. Not sure what I'll put in its place yet, but I won't promote an organization whose head is so arrogant that he'll publicly berate Ladislav, one of the hardest-working guys in the community, for not sucking up sufficiently to his 'me-too' distro.
52 • Ubuntu (by Jose Mirles on 2008-09-22 14:39:25 GMT from United States)
On the subject of Linux Mint, I personally feel that it deserves to be classified as a separate distro. It really makes KDE part of Ubuntu instead as a last minute add on like Kubuntu does. While I don't use it (I installed it, but prefer Mandriva), I can certainly see it is a superior distro.
On the subject of the update missing in Distrowatch. I have to agree with Ladislav. In order to be noted in Distrowatch, Ladislav requires a one paragraph blurp. If any distro manager can't follow the rules, then how can they complain? It is just one paragraph.
I really hope the Linux Mint community and Ladislav can put this behind them. I intend on following the progress of Linux Mint as I feel it is the "Next Big" distro in Linuxland.
53 • Error in the cheatsheet (by Klaus on 2008-09-22 14:44:15 GMT from Norway)
For urpmi, search package should be 'urpmq '.
'urpmf ' search for files in packages. I think urpmi might be the only package manager who is capable of doing that.
54 • @43 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 14:53:00 GMT from Canada)
There are only 2 criteria for getting listed on Distrowatch:
1 - Ladislav thinks your project is interesting
2 - You have paid Ladislav for advertising
Distrowatch is not a true linux distribution listing site. It is an ad supported site that is filtered by Ladislav. This is his site and sadly many folks seem to come here thinking they will get info on all the distributions that are out there. Not true. There are many distros not listed here that have existed for years but refuse to pay for advertising just to get listed.
55 • #54 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 14:58:30 GMT from United States)
You are trying to make the case that every distro listed on this site paid to get on here?? I highly doubt that. Are you from a competing site? Or just an axe to grind?
56 • @55 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 15:11:14 GMT from Canada)
You obviously didn't read what I wrote.
Read number 1.
I'm not from a competing site nor do I have an axe to grind. Just an observation over the years as I have tracked a lot of distros personally.
Why don't you go take a look at the distributions on the waiting list? Sure some are now gone or whatever but lots are active but still not listed from as far back as 2004.
57 • Re: 50 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 15:11:51 GMT from Finland)
> (no offence to the mage users, but isn't 'cast' and 'dispell' just shortcuts to emerge?)
Apparently, that is a Frequently Asked Question. You can read the answer in Source Mage Wiki:
58 • Mint vs. DW (by PiEp on 2008-09-22 15:13:38 GMT from Netherlands)
Am I the only one that thinks the discussion between Clem and Ladislav should have happened via private mail? No need to 'hang out the dirty laundry' I think.
I like Linux. I love Linux. I wish more people would use Linux; any version for that matter. Why fight among ourselves in stead of uniting to promote Linux?
I personally think Ladislav does a wonderful job maintaining one of the most influential reference Linux sites around. He does so by his own rules and standards and he is entitled to do so as it is his own effort, time and money.
I personally also think that Clem does a wonderful job developing Mint as a super-user-friendly Linux distribution. He also does this by his own rules and standards and is also entitled to do so, as are his fellow Mint developers.
Let's work together on this, guys!
59 • Legal Codecs (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 15:25:20 GMT from United States)
"Some will see this as another example of how proprietary formats are hopelessly broken, defy the law, and use the freely available but legally questionable codecs without a word. There are others who will be reminded (or discover for the first time) that the laws governing technology and intellectual property need revision, and rather than circumventing the law, will push for change."
Proprietary formats aren't broken, the "community" just needs to stop grandstanding about how "free" and "open" they are and push their elected representation to change the laws that prohibit distributing the various "free" versions.
You'd think GNU would be working on this, but I guess they'd rather have us waste low level Apple Store employee's time and our own complaining about the iPhone.
60 • Ref#32 & #41 (by verndog on 2008-09-22 15:53:26 GMT from United States)
aptitude --help :)
61 • @51 (by na on 2008-09-22 15:57:06 GMT from Canada)
Wow, aren't you easily influenced / lead. I sure hope you're not old enough to vote yet.
62 • @ 51 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 15:59:23 GMT from United States)
One of the best, yet always underestimated distros
63 • Sinking Gentoo (by verndog on 2008-09-22 16:05:19 GMT from United States)
In reading this heading "...decline of Gentoo Linux", I went here to read more:
"Earlier this year, Robbins made a very public offer to the gentoo trustees: he would return to the Gentoo Foundation as president, remove the trustees (the ones who had just accepted his offer) and replace them with new ones, and through various other initiatives, stem the bleeding and rebuild the gentoo community. Given the conditions of his offer it's hard to believe that Robbins seriously expected a positive response. Despite some 90% of the active gentoo users being in favor of Robbins' return, the trustees (interim trustees really, as the appointed trustees had disappeared) let his offer lapse without a firm yea or nay."
90% in favor of "Robinhoods" return! That's a no confidence vote to the establishment of Gentoo if I ever saw one.
The picture below sadly says it all:
64 • Add OpenSolaris (by Russ on 2008-09-22 16:05:38 GMT from United States)
I would like to see OpenSolaris added to the list, I have not had much luck adding pkg to OS.
I am a distro hopper (I can't find that perfect distro)............Thank you
65 • 43 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-22 16:06:32 GMT from United States)
There are a couple of problems with your attack on Ladislav.
a. He can't censor anything. He has no ability to inflict serious punishment on someone for stating a particular opinion. Censorship is, in most cases, something that the government does. The idea of crying censorship every time something is not reported to your satisfaction is weak but unfortunately successful too often.
b. He has exercised editorial judgment. He is running an informational website. He has to make decisions about whether something is newsworthy. He has clearly stated the criteria he employs when making these decisions.
I have to agree that this is something that should have been handled via private email.
66 • Sour Mint (by verdegal37 on 2008-09-22 16:09:17 GMT from Spain)
But he complains that you?
You do not Distrowatch said that he did not care for anything?
You did not try to Ladislav a crybaby?
Now that you're crying.
How much hypocrisy in the world:
Remember that the time puts everyone on your site.
Clem arrogance is its biggest flaw.
67 • Mint & DW (by Patrick at 2008-09-22 16:14:37 GMT from United States)
Usually I think Ladislav is pretty reasonable, but this bickering leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not about Mint, but about DW.
Of course Ladislav can run his site the way he chooses, but as a user of this site I expect to find Linux news here. Not just Linux news that happens to be pre-chewed exactly the way he likes it. Isn't that what journalism is about? Digging deeper and finding useful tidbits for your readers? Otherwise, you might as well just provide a form where distro maintainers can submit their distro releases and reject the submission if not all fields are filled out.
68 • minty flavors and comments (by capricornus on 2008-09-22 16:21:41 GMT from Belgium)
I appreciate both DW and Mint.
I discovered Mint as so many of us, as Ubuntu enriched with much extra effort and goodies. I keep on rediscovering Mint, because with all the testing I do, I tend to forget the center pole once in a while.
I visit DW every day, and I not always pleased with what I see and read, but that's life. Pardus for instance made me quite angry, an OS from the middle ages has no place among the greater up-to-date ones presented here.
I visit this amphitheater every day too, and I miss colleague-testers, and I despise the bashers and yellers, don they have anything else to do but to contaminate the floor here?
And please, Clem and Ladislav, don add the laundry to this already soiled floor. Just concentrate on improving what you're involved with, please. If ever it is true that Clem has to pay Ladislav to appear on this site, I will never visit this site again. Because, as always ini Linustan, there áre alternatives.
69 • Ref#67 Why? (by verndog on 2008-09-22 16:33:34 GMT from United States)
Why does Ladislave response to Clement Lefebvre leave a bad taste in your mouth? He just answered his complaints the best he could.
I'm actually very surprised the Clement Lefebvre bothered to leave his complaints on the comments sections of DWW for all the world to see instead of emailing Ladislave! It appears that he wanted us to support his reasoning, which in my opinion it backfired.
While I don't agree with the poster that said he is going to now remove Linux Mint because of Clement Lefebvre's remarks, it could have been handled in a more professional manner.
I feel sorry for Clement Lefebvre, that he thought he needed to air his dirty laundry as someone else has stated. It is sad indeed.
Email Ladislave and we would have been none the wiser.
70 • back to the point on Mint (by magoo on 2008-09-22 16:35:57 GMT from Canada)
The issue was to put Mint 5 KDE at the right place on Distrowatch. The attitudes of both ladislav and Clement Lefebvre are not open enough... It's just a misunderstanding.
One one hand, Mint deserve its exposure as a new distribution release on the main page.
On the other hand, Ladislav has the right to decide if a news deserve such exposure based on release announcement and release notes delivered by the distribution editors.
What if Clement Lefebvre make a significant release annoncement with notes describing the changes between this version and the last one...
What if, in the mean time, Ladislav consider this new version of Mint good enough to make an announcement on the main page with a note saying that release announcement and release notes will be availlable soon...
Cool your temper guys... Simples solutions are often the best ones...
@ Mr (51) You made a huge lack of jugement with that comment. Mint is a team, not an individual! You can`t say this to all Mint community... The only thing that taste sour is your own comment...
71 • cheat sheet (by john frey on 2008-09-22 16:45:40 GMT from Canada)
What an excellent idea Ladislav. I am a little confused about the format. For all other distros that don't have an add repository command in the package manager you put (edit...). For Fedora you used (add/remove...) Not being familiar with Fedora I have to ask are the add/remove commands part of the package manager or did you mean to edit the files as the other distros do? In the 1st case the brackets around the command syntax should be removed and in the second "edit" should be used like for Debian and Slackware. Of course there is a 3rd possibility that the add/remove are utilities that are part of Fedora but not part of YUM.
I would like to see package managers for OpenSolaris and the BSD's as well as source based distro's.
I also agree with #25. While dependency resolution has come leaps and bounds there are still dependency issues form time to time, especially when mixing 32 bit and 64 bit and adding 3rd party software. What I do end up searching for foo.so.0 or similar. Of course that file is never a standalone package and finding it without a commandline query is often a total PITA. So I would like to see filename querying included.
72 • Slackware package management (by Michiel van Wessem on 2008-09-22 16:47:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
The standard/default package management tools for Slackware:
Install package installpkg
Remove package removepkg
Update package upgradepkg
Update system cat UPDATE.TXT ; cat CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT ; updatepkg
List repositories n/a
Add repository n/a
Remove repository n/a
Search package google.
List installed ls /var/log/packages/*
For repository: see http://www.slackbuilds.org.
73 • publicity (by Anon E Moose on 2008-09-22 16:53:42 GMT from Canada)
the irony is this is all great publicity for Mint. I was not aware the KDE CE was ready until reading the exchanges in here :)
Unfortunately my old Tecra does not like the live DVD...
The list of package management tools and commands is very interesting, and terribly useful in this age where it seems more and more groups just have to have their own system, or rebrand of an existing one.
I too would like to see FreeBSD added. Been having some fun with Ports, and learning that I really don't like source-based software distribution (spent a good few hours installing smb4k and all of its dependencies via ports. ~whee~).
74 • Slapt-get (by JK Wood on 2008-09-22 16:59:46 GMT from United States)
I disagree with the folks who suggest slapt-get. I can definitely understand using slackpkg, as it is indeed in /extra in Slackware, and therefore semi-sanctioned. But slapt-get is a great way to break your system. The repositories used are not well-vetted, and time and time again I've seen it cause problems.
That said, I'll go with Michiel on this one: To be completely accurate, pkgtools should be used instead. However, if you stick with slackpkg, "slackpkg search file" covers the searching.
Great job, Ladislav! Keep it up!
75 • No subject (by john frey on 2008-09-22 17:04:30 GMT from Canada)
The Free Software Foundation is indeed working on this. While I'm not familiar with the iphone issue you mention, there are often many different issues being attended to at any one time and doing one does not mean the others don't get attention.
anyone can 'cat ' That is not a package management utility.
I run Debian Etch and Sarge and was completely unaware that the devs have deprecated apt-get in favour of aptitude for Etch. So while it is probably appropriate to include the Aptitude commands, I suspect apt-get is still the standard for most and it needs to be included.
76 • RE: 47 DAVEMC (by Landor on 2008-09-22 17:08:11 GMT from Canada)
It is quite sad no? Truly even more disheartening is PCLOS, they can't even release as often as Gentoo...As you said though, it's what it is...One large project with many architectures, security updates, etc, and one smaller one with less going on...Just shows you no matter the size, some just bite off more than they can chew no?
Keep your stick on the ice...
77 • @ 54, Clem/Mint, etc. (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-22 17:10:22 GMT from United States)
> There are only 2 criteria for getting listed on Distrowatch:
> 1 - Ladislav thinks your project is interesting
> 2 - You have paid Ladislav for advertising
> Distrowatch is not a true linux distribution listing site. It is an ad supported site that is filtered by Ladislav. This is his site and sadly many folks seem to come here thinking they will get info on all the distributions that are out there. Not true. There are many distros not listed here that have existed for years but refuse to pay for advertising just to get listed.
I can't comment on #1, since I'm not he, but it seems to me Ladislav is fairly objective about what he will/won't allow. Take a look at the FAQ:
While there are some things I personally disagree with -- such as the Ubuntu Satanic controversy (all the other *buntu knock-offs are there, so why not list it?) -- I respect his judgement overall, and the hard work he puts into maintaining the site.
As for #2, that's bullshit. I haven't paid Ladislav a single cent, and yet he's advertised every release I've put out since 2005. (By the way, Ladislav -- I hope I don't seem ungrateful; you've been probably more patient with my project than it deserves, and once I have something to give, I will try to return the favor.)
I agree with Ladislav's position on release announcements. His requirements are very clearly stated -- it must be long enough to be useful, and it must be easy to find the most important information. Frankly I feel not bothering to decently announce a release is just lazy; even I -- perceptions as a "vanity developer" or otherwise -- try to provide enough that my project can be rejected on its own merits, not just because of its admittedly ill-chosen name. :-) And again, it's his site; he's under no obligation to publish anything at all, and if you can't play by his rules, it's presumptuous to say the least to expect anything in return.
78 • RE: 63 (by Landor on 2008-09-22 17:13:08 GMT from Canada)
Hey Verndog :)
There is something about all the D.Robbins stuff you have to take into consideration, on more than one occasion the man has stated he doesn't have time for Gentoo....Which he did not long after saying he would come back this year...I think you'd have to agree no project could run properly under that kind of flippant leadership. Willing one moment, too busy the next. Then working with Gentoo devs a lot, very odd that whole scenario is indeed...
Keep your stick on the ice...
79 • @ 74 (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-22 17:20:09 GMT from United States)
> But slapt-get is a great way to break your system. The repositories used are not well-vetted, and time and time again I've seen it cause problems.
As you suggested ("whereas slackpkg is semi-sanctioned..."), this problem is largely because of the base operating system, package tools, and third-party repositories all being developed/maintained separately. In "derivative" distributions, however -- whether directly derived, or those like mine that just use the pkgtools -- it is incredibly useful, and less likely to break if correctly pre-configured by the specific distro. Wolvix in particular does a very good job with this.
By the way, I forgot to mention earlier: I'm sorry, but that anthropomorphic cartoon bee thing on the Frugalware "Kids" Edition really freaks me out. I'd be kind of scared to download it -- I just get this creepy feeling that when I log in, it's going to start telling me about the wonders of Nasonex (or whatever it's called).
80 • RE 67 (by Anon on 2008-09-22 18:10:34 GMT from United States)
"Usually I think Ladislav is pretty reasonable, but this bickering leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not about Mint, but about DW.
Of course Ladislav can run his site the way he chooses, but as a user of this site I expect to find Linux news here. Not just Linux news that happens to be pre-chewed exactly the way he likes it. Isn't that what journalism is about? Digging deeper and finding useful tidbits for your readers?"
The key word in the first sentence there is "usually." Let's face it, Ladislav does have a bit of a temper. Remember the Distrowatch vs. OSNews argument about Elive's "donation-ware" idea a while back? Though he was less cordial than Clement was, in my opinion, Ladislav was in the right.
The problem with your expectation is that it would just take way too long for one person to handle. If he does this for Mint, to be fair he'd have to do it for other distros who also neglect to put out a solid release announcement. Personally I don't want to go digging in a changelog unless I'm wondering about some obscure package, and I doubt Ladislav wants to do so either, just to generate a release announcement for someone else's project.
81 • 80 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-22 18:55:18 GMT from United States)
Not to mention the difficulty of putting together an *accurate* list of changes. But I have to ask. If it's not worth the time of the guy who made the changes to say what the changes are, how is it worth anyone else's time to figure them out and write them up?
82 • Package managers (by Azrael Nightwalker on 2008-09-22 18:57:08 GMT from Poland)
I would definitely like to see the cheatsheet expanded to include the BSDs and Solaris.
Also it would be nice to host it on a separate page that people would explicitly link to (better than linking to this DW weekly just for the table).
Anyway, good work.
83 • Package management cheatsheet (by A-Style on 2008-09-22 19:07:52 GMT from United States)
After reading through 80 comments, I still see people pushing their favorite distro, "I think mine should be included, pretty please." I personally like FreeBSD's ports system, because it keeps track of sources and precompiled binaries really well. It's OK to have a mix of old and new software in your system, because the ports system will resolve dependencies for you without forcing you to upgrade the whole system. Debian's apt comes pretty close in thoroughness of dependency resolution, IMHO, but can't seem to do the same for sources. But, as much as I like FreeBSD and respect Debian, I use Mandriva, because I don't want to have to:
1. Learn yet another package management system
2. Discover that some hardware of mine is not well supported, and look on the Internet for help all over again.
84 • In post #77 (by Geoff on 2008-09-22 19:16:09 GMT from United States)
M. Ultima said, "I haven't paid Ladislav a single cent, and yet he's advertised every release I've put out since 2005."
And I'm sure that all eleven of the users of your product are grateful for Ladislav's inclusion of it here at Distrowatch.
85 • The Mint Fiasco (by Landor on 2008-09-22 19:16:57 GMT from Canada)
I think a key issue here that has been neglected by some who are bashing Clem for his comments is that Clem didn't feel they were resolved correctly "in the e-mail exchange"..So one can only fathom his next best attempt would be in this forum, which as some of you also may have noticed, Clem spoke of the 64 release....Now some diehards might not agree with this, but this comments section has, and usually does, encompass all aspects of Distrowatch, not just the weekly... I don't see a problem with Clem posting here regarding it.
For all of you though running to pick-up the fallen Distrowatch banner and march into battle in it's defense, you seem to forget Ladislav runs this (currently) as his "sole" means of making a living. With that, providing "all" the latest information should be first and foremost on the owner's mind.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate this site, but many of you herald him as a great philanthropist who does this freely, and solely without any gain. But, I see him as an individual who uses Linux and found a way to support himself in that area, and Distrowatch as a business, which should be handled as such.
Start to ignore your customer-base, start to ignore your product base, and soon your business is ignored.
Keep your stick on the ice...
86 • #84 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 19:18:00 GMT from United States)
You obviously refuse to read mark Twain.....
87 • #85 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 19:24:14 GMT from United States)
I find myself in one of those rare moments of agreeing with Landor. I am glad that Ladislav found a way of making a living from the Linux world. I hope it is a good one. But I do think that ticking off the users of one of the top ten distributions could be one of those things that can come back to bite him.
By the same token...a paragraph on such a significan release shouldn't be such a big deal to create by Clem and associates. Seems this should have been easily worked out between two businessmen on email. Now it has become not only personal but a charged bit of news in the forum.
88 • Fedora package management (by Jesse on 2008-09-22 19:35:22 GMT from Canada)
The command listed for removing a package with YUM is "yum erase package-name", but I've always used "yum remove package-name". Not sure if it makes any difference.
I was sorry to see the Mint/DW debate here this morning. Egos tend to run high in the open source world, but this came across (to me) as pointless bickering from Clem.
89 • Mint, etc (by Gene Venable on 2008-09-22 19:37:31 GMT from United States)
I have been a fan on Mint for a long time. It seems to me that Mint would not be anywhere near as well known if not for DistroWatch. That needs to be understood.
The notes for the recent KDE version of Mint were pretty pathetic. I think it's fine that there are certain standards that need to be met before an announcement is made in DistroWatch. Regular newspapers have standards for things like obituaries, even, though someone could argue that it isn't the corpse's fault that the obit notice wasn't well-written.
I bet that now that the DistroWatch standards are made clearer, there won't be many more problems like this. That means that the results will be
--good for Linux Mint
--good for DistroWatch
90 • No subject (by linuxguy on 2008-09-22 19:44:09 GMT from United States)
Slitaz Linux ( http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slitaz ) has an excellent and innovative package management system that uses a couple of shell scripts to get the job done very effectively (tazpkg and tazwok and the main ones). It's also rather easy to learn for newcomers to get up to speed with building their own packages (building packages with deb or rpm has a STEEP learning curve for the less familiar) as I learned from experimenting with it.
91 • package management cheatsheet (by Ubuntu user on 2008-09-22 20:04:25 GMT from Poland)
What a wonderful idea! Please continue it.
92 • Here we go again (by Galactus on 2008-09-22 20:04:28 GMT from United States)
Why does it seem that the linux population (related in anyway) has more then their share of prima donnas?
I don't always agree with everything I see or read in DW but overall I believe it to be a great resource. Is it perfect? Nope and I don't expect it to be.
I'm also a user of Mint (and don't believe it's just a theme for Ubuntu) but I have to say that I was very surprised at the tone of lement Lefebvre's posts. I understand that I do not know the full details but his posts did leave a bad taste in my mouth. Seems like e-mails were sent out and Lement did not like the answers so he decided to escalate to the boards here. All this time and effort when it would have been far easier for him to write a paragraph or two about the release? I'm sorry seems petulant to me.
I don't see it as censorship to have editorial rights and some minimal expectations.
93 • removed mint (by no more mint on 2008-09-22 20:08:58 GMT from Australia)
Until i read this distrowatch weekly i used to think mint was a good distro but after seeing Clement Lefebvre trash distrowatch for his own faults i will be removing mint as soon as possible i really think Clement should keep his mouth shut as he is not the one who does the kde ce announcements Ladislav shouldn't have to report about a one line release announcement. If it was that good shouldn,t the release announcement been longer than one line.
94 • No subject (by Pragmatist on 2008-09-22 20:19:21 GMT from Canada)
And here I thought it was about the software, and not politics and pissing matches.
If one can dump a distribution because of a few words spoken in a forum, then that certainly lends credence to the notion of far too many distros that overlap in far too many areas.
My god but some of you people are way too freakin sensitive. :P
95 • #94 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 20:26:20 GMT from United States)
LOL...unfortunately...it is always about the politics. And there are those who reason...and those who feel. Being rational only works with the first group. To rip Mint off your system because Clem is having a bad day is typical for the other. You must not be watching the elections! Clem is obviously a good guy and does good work. He does need to have someone step up and write a paragraph on the KDE release and let everyone get past this though.
96 • Lies, damn lies, then, > DWW "leading=on" topics. (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 20:31:24 GMT from Canada)
"Prejudice is a time saver > no need to get the facts first"
@ # 78
Is that really Landor - the wording doesn't sound right
Robbins *wanted* to come back ? - Get the story straight
He still *was* the official head
Gossip mongerers commenting here have little idea of actual facts
(See the status of papers - New Mexico - Gentoo foundation )
Has anyone even bothered to read relevant background events ?
Only Daniel knows what his motivations were:
My guess, to shake up disparate rogue Dev element- most Foundation members had already silently vanished from sworn posts
He had neither the time nor interest to resume the helm
Loose talk of Gentoos "slow-death" - no innovation ?
Again - the "lack" is not what DWW peanut gallery supposes
If theDW RANK- lings numbers meant anything (they don't)
Gentoos position has been static for over a year
Few have any solid concept of just what constitutes truely new innovation anyway
Once again Ladislav promotes blog style confrontations
NOT to further common goals - so indeed why then ?
HINT - Look at the adds & DW balance sheet
BTW #61 - you forgot to factor in relevancies (poster 51 votes in U.S )-
There, they are "guided" in most contentious matters by Nancy Grace/CNN style "reporting"
Verndog - please READ b4 jumping to conclusions -
The "sympoms" noted . are largely a result of poor co-ordination
The sheer number of varied architectures ported, vastness of e-builds to maintain.
Anywy , you still don't "get the point" of a sources-based O/Sys
> Once installed YOU control what/how anything is used
Get the idea ? You want innovation - go find it & install/adapt
Mind, you do have to know *how* to use your own system
For others -just be content to do as usual - bitch & whine,
rather than learn anything on your own
97 • Ubuntu now selling multi-media codecs (by Darrell Eifert on 2008-09-22 20:35:56 GMT from United States)
I for one am pleased that a Linux distributor has finally stepped up to the plate and addressed one of the key issues that has kept me as a professional librarian from switching to Linux as an operating system for our public-use computers. Now that I can obtain clear and legal ownership of the codecs necessary for on-line and instructional media playback, Linux now enters the ring as a contender to help us reduce and control our computer operating and maintenance costs.
98 • Some precisions (by Clement Lefebvre on 2008-09-22 20:37:22 GMT from Ireland)
As a lot of people commented on this I just want to make a few things clear:
- Linux Mint wouldn't be near as popular if it wasn't for distrowatch. This is true and there's no question about this. While I am grateful about this I am also worried that our project has become dependent on one single website for people to know about what we're doing. As an example Softpedia covered the announcement and yet a lot of people didn't know we had released. What happened with KDE CE definitely worried me. I said it to the team and we're talking about it right now, if we can't get the word out, if we can't let people know then it doesn't matter much how good our desktop is. We feel we've got a system that is good enough to replace Windows and make people migrate to Linux but if we can't even make people aware of our second most important release then we've got a huge problem.
- Linux Mint doesn't pay distrowatch to be on distrowatch nor do any distributions as far as I'm concerned. Distrowatch offers advertisement on top of the main page and this has nothing to do with news announcements. Also Distrowatch gave a $400 donation to Linux Mint so if money was exchanged it was the other way.
- We did have an email conversation about the announcement of KDE CE and it was held privately. People also commented about this issue on the KDE CE announcement thread on our forums and we asked them not to hijack it. I commented here today because I was amazed to see KDE CE in the "development and unannounced" section. As you can imagine this came as a surprising new "development" to me..
- I agree with Ladislav on the quality of that particular announcement and on its release notes. I wouldn't go as far as saying that they're "pathetic" but we're taking this as constructive feedback and we will improve on this in the future.
- Ladislav has a temper, so do I. That's fine and even if words go out too fast now and then we're all "human" after all. I think we both appreciate what is done and as for being professional we are most of the time. I don't work full time on Mint but I understand how I represent it and I fully assume that what I say and what I do has an impact on the project. I raised a point, there's been a discussion, we still don't agree, we've been a bit too far maybe but at least we know where we stand now and we can both improve the ways we see fit.
Let's put this behind us. We'll come with a better release process and better notes next time.
99 • #98 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-22 20:47:35 GMT from United States)
Very professional and a great step in the right direction Clem.
100 • @98 (by Earl on 2008-09-22 21:11:07 GMT from United States)
Your distro, Clem, and this site have something in common: good for the linux community.
101 • OpenSolaris (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-09-22 21:13:13 GMT from United States)
It's good to see OpenSolaris is still working hard on ironing out its distribution and making it more friendly. I tried build 95 of OpenSolaris 2008.11 over a month ago and it has got a few noticeable improvements. I hope they keep up the good work! Maybe in 2-3 releases from now they'll have a very good competitive edge with their distribution. I wish them the best of luck.
102 • Package managers (Slackware Apt) (by Caitlyn on 2008-09-22 21:18:27 GMT from United States)
Nice article on package managers :) A number of Slackware-based distributions have added one of two user-friendly package managers with GUI front-ends: Zenwalk uses netpkg and a whole slew of distros, including Wolvix and Vector Linux, use Slackware Apt, which has a synaptic-like GUI (gslapt) and the command-line slapt-get.
Command summary for Vector, Wolvix, et al...
Install package: slapt-get --install
Remove package: slapt-get --remove
Update package list: slapt-get --update
Update system: slapt-get --upgrade
List repositories: cat /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc
Add repository: (edit /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc)
Remove repository: (edit /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc)
Search package: slapt-get --search
List installed packages: slapt-get --list
I hope someone finds this to be a useful addition.
103 • No subject (by UZ64 on 2008-09-22 21:27:18 GMT from United States)
"the irony is this is all great publicity for Mint. I was not aware the KDE CE was ready until reading the exchanges in here :)"
I just downloaded it earlier. Yes... after I found out about it by reading Clement's and Ladislav's argument. Still need to try it out, though.
Oh, and the guy (kid?) that claimed he's going to immediately wipe Mint when he gets home due to this argument: GROW UP.
Disclaimer: I am NOT, and never was a Mint user.
104 • Sorry for the duplication, re: negative comments about slapt-get (by Caitlyn on 2008-09-22 21:28:06 GMT from United States)
First, I apologize for the duplication. Flavio beat me to slapt-get and I missed it somehow. He missed slapt-get --list so at least I added a little something to the discussion :)
To those who feel slapt-get is a bad idea: that may be true with vanilla Slackware but it isn't true for Vector Linux, GoblinX, Wolvix, etc... who do an excellent job at repository maintenance. I haven't used Ultima Linux yet. Martin, I've read your posts here and it IS on my list of things to check out :) I believe you just issued a release candidate. I'm waiting for the next final release.
105 • Say _no_ to imaginary friends (by Tony Worsman on 2008-09-22 21:29:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ladislav has not included the Ubuntu Satanic distribution because he feels it would be offensive to his Distrowatch readership, fair comment, but it works both ways, I am personally "offended" everytime I see a release announcement for Ubuntu Christian edition, Operating systems are about logic, religion is about throwing logic out of the window, the two just don't go together. I suspect that Ubuntu satanic is not intended to offend anyone, but exists as a natural reaction to the existence of Ubuntu CE &ME, and I would not be surprised to see an Atheist edition, spagetti monster edition, or fairies and goblins edition, all are equally valid, but none have a place in the Linux world imho
106 • Package managers (by PP on 2008-09-22 21:44:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
EXCELLENT TABLE!!! Please add a command for searching a string in the package descriptions. This is something I always need to look up again and again. Examples: "zypper -se -d game", "apt-cache search game"
107 • @79 and 104: (by JK Wood on 2008-09-22 22:01:08 GMT from United States)
Martin and Caitlyn: Fair enough. Just as long as people recognize that it's Slack-based distros that integrate slapt-get, and not Slack itself, I'm happy.
108 • Package management cheatsheet (by Andy on 2008-09-22 22:01:48 GMT from New Zealand)
Good on you for doing this, Ladislav! Thanks!
Yes, I would like to see FreeBSD also included in this. I know most of the basic pakage management commands for it, but having them in a simple all-in-one-place cheatsheet like this would be good. I think others would be interested to see the FreeBSD commands too.
Keep up the great work!
109 • Pisi Package System (by Suleyman Balıkçı on 2008-09-22 22:09:14 GMT from Turkey)
Pisi is the one of the most usable and easiest package manager. you just write the name of the program and it brings it to you. it is new, just 2.5 yearsbut it has a huge package repo...
110 • Slapt-get (by Flavio on 2008-09-22 22:57:56 GMT from Brazil)
"First, I apologize for the duplication. Flavio beat me to slapt-get and I missed it somehow. He missed slapt-get --list so at least I added a little something to the discussion :)"
No problem at all... it's good have another mention to slapt-get...
"Martin and Caitlyn: Fair enough. Just as long as people recognize that it's Slack-based distros that integrate slapt-get, and not Slack itself, I'm happy."
Yes, nowadays Slackware does not integrate slapt-get to its repository.
I use several Slackware packages, I have to download them to add the dependencies. I use a script to list all deps of each package before upload it to GoblinX repository. Slapt-get works very well for me and also Gslapt. I never install a package directly from Slackware repository, I download the package, uncompress it and list its deps, them I include the package to the repository with the respective dependencies and later I use Slapt-get to install this package from the repository in my harddisk to check possible errors.
111 • OpenSolaris is the New Linux (by chupacabra on 2008-09-22 23:10:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
OpenSolaris is the New Linux (tm)
112 • Mint Releases (by Don Cosner on 2008-09-22 23:16:51 GMT from United States)
Fist let me say that I have frequented Distrowatch for quite a few years and have held it as a main source of information for news on developing distributions and releases.
I am totally shocked by the way the latest LinuxMint releases have been handled here. LinuxMint has been in the top 10 on Distrowatch for a long time now. It is very clear that there is an interest in this distribution.
It is certainly not in Distrowatch's best interest to not release information regarding one of it's highest ranking distro's. The popularity of Distrowatch depends on the popularity of Linux after all.
Stating that a given distribution has too many release is ridicules as most of the major distro's have different offerings. I refer to this as growth. Asking for a couple of paragraphs for a new release sounds reasonable.
I support Clem's decision to post here and bring this matter out in the open. This is not the first controversial posting I have seen here about a distribution, there have been others.
The bottom line is that this sort of thing is not good for Distrowatch and it is not good for Linux in general. Is this a Linux Distribution site or not?
LinuxMint Release Manager
113 • Apt-get tricks (by KC on 2008-09-22 23:20:03 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure if other package managers can also do this, but Debian's apt-get can do some very special things that have saved me a lot of time. Here are a few examples:
- When you want to install a program from source from the original project (because it is newer than the one that is in the repository, or if you want to test a new alpha or beta version)
apt-get build-dep (installs all of the dependencies for a package without actually installing the package)
- When you want to build a new machine with the same packages that are installed as an existing one
dpkg -get-selections > myselections (on the existing machine)
copy the myselections file to the newly built bare OS machine and ...
dpkg -set-selections < myselections
dselect - Install
This last one saved me a lot of time once when I only had two days to build an 8 node MPI cluster and couldn't take the time to build an FAI server.
Not sure if any of this belongs in the cheatsheet, or how may other package managers can do this, but these are the types of tricks that make a difference to me.
114 • mark twain (by akkudlerk on 2008-09-22 23:20:06 GMT from France)
I keep looking at Mark Twain's red written shout at the bottom of the page.
It's not a particularly funny or relevant quote, it may be better to write nothing at all than flatter yourself with meaningless wit..
115 • Secret Maryo Chronicles (by Bryan on 2008-09-22 23:23:40 GMT from United States)
Ladislav, I hate to nit-pick, but Foresight Linux has *Secret* Maryo Chronicles, not Super Maryo Chronicles, installed by default. I installed it on my ubuntu 8.10 laptop just to check it out and it's a pretty nice clone of those side scrolling games like SuperTux. In fact, the graphic are pretty cool. I'm sure my sons will love this one!
116 • Ref#98 Clem & Company , Ref#96 • Lies, damn lies (by verndog on 2008-09-22 23:23:46 GMT from United States)
#98 - Thanks for clearing the air. LOL now it looks like those two guys will have to re-install Mint again :)
I think, no I know Mint is not "just" a rehash of Ubuntu. There's been a lot of sweat and tears involved. Just because you can read "...based on Ubuntu" , doesn't mean its Ubuntu with new colors. I don't have it install right now. That doesn't mean anything. I'm using several distros. I found Mint very professional.
#96 Speaking of "READ b4" nonsense. Did you bother to READ my comments and the article I referenced? Obviously not. Just look at the numbers. They reflect a fleeting ship. While you may still hold wishful thoughts, Gentoo is JUST.NOT.THE.SAME. Game over. Regardless of its spot at DW, its not the old Gentoo.
117 • Re: Apt-Get tricks (by Bryan on 2008-09-22 23:26:37 GMT from United States)
I have always thought that was a neat trick with dpkg...but what if you are copying packages onto a computer with different hardware (a most likely possibility). Couldn't installing the nvidia drivers mindlessly off the list potentially cause problems with an ATI or S3 machine. That's just one thought that comes to mind, but I imagine driver conflicts could arise elsewhere...
118 • Describe package (by Duhnonymous on 2008-09-22 23:29:36 GMT from United States)
Here's something I do all the time on Debian or Ubuntu:
apt-cache show package-name
This is something that's just as important if not more important than the search function, and it really should be in any cheat sheet.
119 • Re 117 (by KC on 2008-09-23 00:32:54 GMT from United States)
Yes. I suppose that dpkg trick could get you into trouble with different hardware. In the case I mentioned (building an 8 node MPI cluster), all of the 8 boxes were identical. You could strip out any inappropriate driver packages before applying to the new box, but the right way to do it if you had different hardware would be with an FAI server (http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/), which is the Debian equivalent of RedHat's Kickstart.
120 • Sigh... (by someone on 2008-09-23 00:36:10 GMT from Aruba)
@ 11: Huh?!? I don't know where the hell you came with that comparison, but Arch is more alive than ever. Besides, if Gentoo goes down, it WON'T pull Arch down with it because the two aren't dependent on each other.
121 • # 116 Keep reading - IF you do (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 00:49:32 GMT from Canada)
BTW B4 you bleat spurious "devloper activity statistics" as verification to what you obviously prefer over being well informed:
The developers shuffling - reveal nothing of reasons
Jobs / schooling / family needs -take priority to hobbies
> * Less_resources_are_ Req'd*
People burn out - others find new interests
The Foundation did a lousy job of guidance
Many of those developers worked on things - you are not even interesested in - know nothing about
The lead developer of Paludis - ( a radical alternative to Portgage, coded on C)
Himself was on verge of being banned from Gentoo prior to taking up that new project outside "official" support
122 • Mint is better than most others (by Jonathon on 2008-09-23 01:07:29 GMT from United States)
The Mint turned me onto Linux and opened my eyes to a world without windows. I owe the devs at Mint so much. Their IRC channel always has users and maintainers available to answer questions. He created a top notch distro and deserves to have a link produced even if its only a one liner since most distros release with the same crap, at least he created some wonderful tools.
123 • Mint Score Sheet (by thomas on 2008-09-23 01:18:41 GMT from United States)
Yet another outstanding Distrowatch. Excellent feature article. This is my favorite Linux site.
Mr. Bodnar and Mr. Lefebvre are both on my short list of favorite people. However, I will be much disappointed if they both don't work together to get over this thing.
Mr. Cosner, do you think you that your post is constructive?
As a Mint representative, you might stay out of the center of this thing. If you have a personal opinion, fine, but it you are trying to represent an organization, please stand aside an let calmer minds work this out. (Your Mint releases have been excellent!)
My score sheet is
Lefebvre, -1, -1, +1
124 • Re #84 (by Vakkotaur on 2008-09-23 01:38:18 GMT from United States)
Yes, we are.
125 • gentoo (by duck on 2008-09-23 01:41:21 GMT from United States)
If leadership had gone to drobbins or the exherbo/ciaran team, I think gentoo would have pulled through.
I'm glad that there are other distros to choose from, but gentoo 2003-2005 was a _very_ special place and there will never be a scene like that one again. RIP gentoo and good luck to everyone who made gentoo such a special distribution.
126 • I don't think it's much (by Nobody important on 2008-09-23 01:47:56 GMT from United States)
I honestly don't think it's much to go look at the DW FAQ and see, oh, for Distrowatch we need to write a little extra to get front page. Just name a few things new in this release. Not hard at all.
Mix ups happen. Both sides were pretty reasonable and the fight - if there was one - was over before it barely began.
I found the Mint's release manager's post to be stirring the fires after the flame had already died down, and I agree with post 123 above me. This is getting out of hand and it should stop. I do believe that Cosner should explain his intentions for posting, because I wonder where his claims is coming from.
I tried Mint two weeks ago. Very nice, pretty, stable. It took up a few too many pieces of RAM, though (for me and my Xfce spoiled ways) so I passed it by. In no way do I think it's bad by any means; it is certainly a good idea for a Vista refugee. It's just not right for me at the time. I do plan on looking the Mint Xfce release, however.
Oh, and don't bother arguing with that poem writer on 121, you guys. He'll just keep going if you let him, and eventually he'll start rivaling The Iliad for Epic Poem status. There's no "winning" in that battle.
Or any battle amongst fellow Linux enthusiasts, for that matter. Save it, and move on.
127 • Announcement Mint 5 KDE CE (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 01:55:31 GMT from Australia)
Can be found here http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16871
Release Notes are here http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa_kde.php
Working torrent at http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=7860104003b216fe05bede48dc7a2bcf71df04d0
For direct download mirrors go to the (typically) /pub/linuxmint/stable/5/community/
Only half of the following are up to date so far http://www.linuxmint.com/mirrors.php?id=28
128 • @ 84, 104, 107, 110, 112 (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-23 02:07:50 GMT from United States)
> And I'm sure that all eleven of the users of your product are grateful for Ladislav's inclusion of it here at Distrowatch.
At least twelve (thirteen, including myself). Be as snarky as you want -- I actually like the small user community, since we all know each other better (and more importantly, it's a *hell* of a lot easier to do tech support).
> To those who feel slapt-get is a bad idea: that may be true with vanilla Slackware but it isn't true for Vector Linux, GoblinX, Wolvix, etc... who do an excellent job at repository maintenance. I haven't used [eponymous distribution] yet. Martin, I've read your posts here and it IS on my list of things to check out :) I believe you just issued a release candidate. I'm waiting for the next final release.
It's due this week -- in fact, I have the ISO's building now. I'm kind of amused that someone wants to try it *because* of my posts rather than in spite of them :-)
> Ladislav has not included the Ubuntu Satanic distribution because he feels it would be offensive to his Distrowatch readership, fair comment, but it works both ways, I am personally "offended" everytime I see a release announcement for Ubuntu Christian edition
As a person, I agree whole-heartedly with the "offense" at religious-themed distributions. On principle, however, I also agree those developers have just as much right as any of the rest of us to release their product, and to advertise it on sites such as DistroWatch. What I'm curious to know is whether they follow Ladislav's stated guidelines -- a legitimate, serious development effort; useful release announcements; etc. -- or, for that matter, even provide a product. (Legitimate question, although I should probably just shut up and Google it.)
> Martin and Caitlyn: Fair enough. Just as long as people recognize that it's Slack-based distros that integrate slapt-get, and not Slack itself, I'm happy.
An entirely reasonable compromise.
> I have to download them to add the dependencies. I use a script to list all deps of each package before upload it to GoblinX repository.
I actually don't use the dependency tracking features; my main interest is the interface itself, both graphical and command-line. A lot of this is from my personal experience with dependency tracking in other distros -- I started with Red Hat, and that was a nightmare to configure -- so the dependency tracking idea's never appealed to me.
(Part of it, too, is adding the data to packages. I maintain my own source tree, so that's not a problem in itself, but with over 500+ packages, two architectures, and one developer, it's a lot of work. The time needed for hand-tuning would be better spent with other development efforts, and I greatly dislike automatic tools like requiredbuilder that randomly and unnecessarily shove large packages like gcc down your throat.)
> Stating that a given distribution has too many release is ridicules as most of the major distro's have different offerings. I refer to this as growth. Asking for a couple of paragraphs for a new release sounds reasonable.
Frankly, I feel having a separate release for each individual desktop environment *is* somewhat ridiculous; if nothing else, it strikes me as impractical, since it involves a lot of redundancy, and considerable time and effort to maintain. But maybe I'm just a bit old-fashioned like that -- I'd be interested to know what advantages (particularly from a developer's perspective) there are to that release plan.
129 • Slack package management (by Dan C on 2008-09-23 02:26:14 GMT from United States)
Why would you choose something (slackpkg) which is not part of a standard Slackware install to use for this evaluation? Why not use the built-in package management utils (pkgtool and family), as that is what most real Slackers actually use...?
130 • Linux Mint editions (by ladislav on 2008-09-23 02:34:56 GMT from Taiwan)
Just one more comment on Linux Mint (which actually applies to any distribution that produces a big variety of editions, one at a time). In order to avoid the situation when one distribution is constantly in the news, this is how the editions will be treated in terms of DistroWatch announcements:
1. The main Linux Mint edition: both the development and stable releases will be announced in the main news on DistroWatch (provided that the maintainers publish at least one paragraph of release announcement/notes listing the main features and changes).
2. The community editions of Linux Mint (KDE, Xfce, Fluxbox): only stable versions will be announced in the main news on DistroWatch (again, provided that the maintainers publish a meaningful release announcements/notes).
3. The x86_64 editions of Linux Mint won't be announced in the main news on DistroWatch (they are the same product as the i386 edition, just compiled for a different processor).
4. All Linux Mint releases that don't get announced in the main news on DistroWatch will get a link in the "Latest Distributions" section on the main page (left column). It has an RSS feed (http://distrowatch.com/news/dwd.xml), so those interested in the development community editions and in the x86_64 editions of Linux Mint should subscribe to this RSS feed to keep up-to-date.
Once again, I want to stress that this is not to discriminate against Linux Mint, it's just to avoid the situation when one distro overtakes the news section with a new release announcement every few days. If you consider the different Mint edtions (GNOME, KDE, Xfce, Fluxbox, then release candidates of all four and 64-bit editions of all four with release candidates), we are talking 16 announcements. Not even Ubuntu or openSUSE gets so much exposure.
I know that there will be Mint fans who would find this policy discriminatory and accuse me of bias, etc. To those, all I want to say is this: please be tolerant. Not everybody is interested in Linux Mint, so let's keep the amount of release announcements to a reasonable level (it isn't just Mint - other distributions with many different editions and new ISO images every few weeks, e.g. VectorLinux or Pioneer in the past, get treated the same way). And for those who are interested in _every_ Mint release, please subscribe to the "Latest Distributions" RSS feed.
131 • RE: 129 Slack package management (by ladislav on 2008-09-23 02:44:47 GMT from Taiwan)
Why would you choose something (slackpkg) which is not part of a standard Slackware install to use for this evaluation?
I chose it simply because it is more powerful than the standard Slackware tools (and also because it's available on the Slackware install DVD - unsupported, yes, but available nonetheless). Otherwise many of the package management operations in the table (eg. repository operations, search, etc.) would have no Slackware equivalents. But if most people prefer the standard Slackware tools, I'll be happy to update the cheatsheet and only mention the standard Slackware tools.
132 • @ the insulted gentlemen (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 03:30:07 GMT from Canada)
Dear Mr. Clement Lefebvre and Mr. Don Cosner (in no particular order)
If you feel insulted take a deep breath, count to 100, do some yoga, smoke some good quality weed and relax. And next time when you want to spam DistroWatch, send some good documentation.
133 • RE:130 Linux Mint "over-exposure" (by awong on 2008-09-23 03:48:38 GMT from Canada)
Ironically, Linux Mint has received more exposure than it has ever had in the Reader's Comments... Regardless of existing disagreements, I'm not going to uninstall Linux Mint from my computers nor remove Distrowatch from my bookmarks...
134 • # 126 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 04:14:27 GMT from Canada)
> (I honestly don't think"_)
Now there is somthing we can all agree about - you *don't* think
- Obviously that doesn''t hinder your spouting off about nothing
Seems you prefer to enlighten all & sundry of your higher moral opinions instead
Better an "epic poem" than a dozen lines saying nothing
You were absent in person & savvy - when the topic was technical
(Gcc optimizations / kernel schedulers etc- etc)
# 128 > ( "I'd be interested to know what advantages (particularly from a developer's perspective) there are to that release plan. ")
Doing so , meets DWW's "enlightened users" - standards of what constitutes a community - or staying in forefront of innovation in development
After all, it wouldn't do, to be in danger of imminent demise -as they are so astute to forecast
135 • Nepomuk (by RollMeAway on 2008-09-23 05:14:00 GMT from United States)
How many of you are aware of this nepomukserver?
I've recently had problems on 3 different distros (sidux, suse, and mandriva) caused by this unknown program.
If you don't use 'beagle' or 'strigi' search apps, you too might be alarmed by this "open-source software specification that is the development of a Social Semantic desktop"
I is buried inside KDE4 firefox and thunderbird for some examples. Its purpose is to put just about everything on YOUR computer into a meta database, accessible by those creating it and who else?
Its development is sponsered by governments and large companies. Cause for worry right there.
Somebody convince me I'm just being paranoid, and this isn't cause for concern.
136 • @135 (by Mr. Smith on 2008-09-23 05:45:37 GMT from Australia)
All your desktop is mine...
ha ha aha...
137 • Mint x DW : both tied! (by flon on 2008-09-23 06:05:25 GMT from Brazil)
Sorry, but the tensions in the air justify some space abbuse. After 1 minute searching, I think Clem and Ladislav must apologize each other.
1. At DW http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq
I fought this clear rules:
Q: What kind of news is published on the main page?
A: First and foremost, news about release announcements of Linux distributions and *BSDs (both stable and development) are published on the main page. To a lesser degree, interesting reviews and interviews with distribution developers (in English) will also be published. However, please note that only quality reviews will be given space on the main page. Short and superficial reviews, as well as reviews with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors or poor writing style will not be linked on the main page, although they will still be added to the relevant distribution-specific page.
2. At Mint's site/side:
the CE release signed by Clem is in fact a single line of really unusable text, as said by Ladislav. See it at http://linuxmint.com/
after two links we can find this, too:
"Release Notes for Linux Mint 5 Elyssa KDE
By Jamie "Boo" Birse
This is the KDE Community Edition for Linux Mint 5, codename Elyssa, based on Daryna and compatible with Ubuntu Hardy and its repositories.
* List of new features
* Known issues
* Install with an old home partition
* Download mirrors
* Software portal "
Or: A good, complete release of Mint 5.0 KDE CE ! Some thousand words of ... a release.
Better days for you all, guys!
138 • @135 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-23 06:14:03 GMT from Canada)
You're being paranoid.
Nepomuk data is not "accessible by those creating it and who else?". Currently, it's accessible to...well...you. In other words, the logged in user. (And, I guess, anyone else who can access your files directly, but then...in that case they can...already...access...your...files...yeah). In future I think it's designed to allow you to share your metadata where that would make sense, but only with whom you choose to.
It's sponsored by governments because they want to *have* something like this (information storage, organization and indexing is a huge deal for governments) and large corporations for two reasons - one, they want it (same as governments) and two, they think it's where the future is going and they want to make sure they have a slice. Or, to be more accurate, they think there's a possibility it's where the future is going and they want to cover their asses (since the amount of money involved is, comparatively, peanuts to a company like HP; they have investments in quite a lot of fairly obscure things like Nepomuk, most of which will never come to anything, just because it's worth it for the few that will). It's not about All Your Data Are Belong To Us.
139 • @138 (by Mr. Smith on 2008-09-23 06:22:37 GMT from Australia)
Adam wrote: It's not about All Your Data Are Belong To Us
For that comment alone I think I'll give Mandriva a go.
Classic stuff. Good work Mr Williamson!
140 • No subject (by capricornus on 2008-09-23 06:32:49 GMT from Netherlands)
Softpedia. There it is. The contender ? I will put it next to DW among te bookmarks. I will study and compare. I will report.
141 • Cheat sheet for package managers (by Dragonopolis on 2008-09-23 07:22:48 GMT from United States)
Someone forgot Sabayon's own, Portage Friendly, binary based, package manager called Entropy.
Consists of Equo (which is the textual or command-line part) and Spritz (graphical) for us end users.
It was installed by default in Sabayon Linux 3.5
Here are the commands that match the list but Equo, the command-line element, has so much more and some of the commands have extra modifiers to the commands but here is the list: (also use equo --help for a reference)
Install package: equo install -- ask (-- ask modifier is recommend but optional)
Yes there are extra modifiers (called amendments on the Sabayon site)
take a look at:
Remove package: equo remove
extra modifiers (amendments) see link above.
Update package list: equo update (updates configured repositories)
extra modifiers (amendments) see link above.
Update system: equo world (this will update everything already on the system with the latest available packages and the kitchen sink too -- just kidding. That is probably too bold, however there is the --ask amendment and is optional but recommended.).
There are additional amendments available see above link.
List repositories: ( see /etc/entropy/repositories.conf) ........or
equo repoinfo (I never actually tried this as I just used what was already setup for me in Sabayon (unfortunately the computer that had my Sabayon 3.5 installed was killed by a lightning storm -- got me through the cable modem -- so I can't give it a try )
Also addition amendments see link above:
Add repository: (edit /etc/entropy/repositories.conf)
for exact details. But once added, Equo and Spritz (graphic version) commands should work like normal. Just rember to update your repositories with...equo update.... (without the dots) before using
Remove repository: (edit /etc/entropy/repositories.conf) again remember to update repository information before using Equo or Spritz.
Search package: equo search
List installed packages: equo list installed
Kudos to 102 for pointing out the Zenwalk uses """Netpkg""" another one to added to the list.
Okay people enough with the Clem/Ladislav issue.
Just read 98 and you will see that while these two didn't agree on everything the major issues were accepted and we are told that by Clem that things will be set on course. Sounds promising to me and was a pretty good issue closer; so lets get on with more important issues please.
142 • Parslinux (by Navid Hasanzadeh on 2008-09-23 07:49:08 GMT from Australia)
Parslinux 0.5f0 was Published.
What's Parslinux GNU/Linux?
Parslinux GNU/Linux is a live and Installation CD.
It's been derived from slax with slackware as it's basic and KDE on the default desktop.Parslinux GNU/Linux supports Persian language amongst many others.When you install Parslinux GNU/linux it works on your computer operating system.
softwares list in this version:
KDE 3.5.9 (English-Persian)
Adobe reader 8
Multimedia codecs for mp4,mp3,wmv,...
Firefox 3 Final
Sun xVM VirtualBox
Download Live-Installation disk :
143 • pkg (by Robert Sela on 2008-09-23 10:45:24 GMT from Serbia and Montenegro)
And yes, Free BSD too.
144 • @105 (by Evil Buntu on 2008-09-23 12:20:47 GMT from United States)
When it first came out Ubuntu Satanic Edition was pretty obviously done tongue in cheek as a taunt to the brittle types who take affront too easily. They even said in their instructions that it was just a skin to install on your favorite 'buntu variant (and recommended Christian Edition, of course!). With time they seem to have begun to take themselves as seriously as those they originally mocked, which is sort of funny in a grim way.
I'm holding out for Ubuntu Pastafarian Edition. It'll go great with my existing "Touched by His Noodly Appendage" wallpaper!
145 • #105 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 12:59:51 GMT from United States)
World Religions by precentage of population
Christian - 32%
Islamic - 19%
Hinduism - 13%
Atheist - 2%
The vast majority of the world has a religious viewpoint and many of them appreciate a version of Linux that contains tools to use in the study of that religion. In the typical fashion of the day, some vocal minority thinks they are so important that the vast majority owes it to them to adopt their viewpoint. Get a life....
146 • Geez! (by jeffcustom on 2008-09-23 14:28:18 GMT from United States)
I actually thought that that Clem and Ladislav kept it short and sweet. I appreciate that as opposed to the hundred posts since that are analyzing and criticizing! I don't think DW is short for DIsney World so real life happens here which means people have disagreements and move on. People just need to relax. I'm sure Clem and Ladislav are fine.
On another note, I've decided to follow other's lead here and boycott any OS that I don't agree with from time to time. Bummer is that I am running out of things to play with in the Bios! Guess I need to buy some more motherboards so I have some different Bois' to play with. :-)
147 • RE:145, Where did that come from, and why? (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-23 15:38:36 GMT from United States)
What has religion got to do with anything. Sorry but everybody deserves equal billing. Made up numbers are not excepted and I already have a life but thanks for caring anyway.
148 • apt-cache search (by Debian user on 2008-09-23 15:49:54 GMT from Czech Republic)
What about apt-cache search 'string' for searching packages?
149 • 138 re nepomuk (by RollMeAway on 2008-09-23 15:50:24 GMT from United States)
If nepomuk is only intended for my use, then I should have the option to remove it. I can't find any means of doing that. Unlike beagle and strigi which I can for the most part, uninstall.
I do not want my resources, cpu, ram, hd space, used to catalog my email, file attachments, pictures, mp3's, notes etc.
If I should work for a government or large company, I might expect them to snoop out everything on their computer that I might use.
How can I remove nepomuk?
Where is this personal database stored?
Why was I not aware all my personal data was being cataloged?
150 • re 147 and 145 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 15:56:58 GMT from Canada)
@147 Yes, religion has to do with everything because it fux your mind.
@145 In the typical fashion of the day, some vocal minority thinks they are so important that the vast majority owes it to them to adopt their viewpoint
Who told you that the satanic cult wants to convert the others to satanism? The satans followers merely want their distro to be listed here.
You get a life. A true life. This life is insignificant. The true life starts after death. So go to heaven!
151 • sidux-2008-03 release - a new version of a great system (by Brian Masinick on 2008-09-23 16:17:08 GMT from United States)
I have been a long time Debian GNU/Linux distribution user, going back to 2001. I have been a Linux desktop user since 1995, and I have also utilized Linux servers in the workplace when they are available since 2005.
I know how to install software, whether the tools help me out much or not. When I first tried Linux software in 1995, the Slackware installation was already reasonably simple, but it was (and is) geared to the enthusiast who is willing and eager to learn rather than the uninitiated novice. Early Debian based software had a similar focus.
A number of distributions have emerged over the years in both the Slackware and Debian spaces, some of which have defined entire market niches. SLAX really defines a modular, Live CD based niche. KNOPPIX has helped spawn and grow an entire sub-culture of Live CD and remastering technologies.
sidux is creating a ecosystem where it is possible to try out cutting edge software and actually use it for every day use. sidux is definitely slanted toward the enthusiast, yet it is relatively easy to install and maintain. I refer to sidux as Debian Sid on steroids and mood stabilizers. For over a year it has been my favorite distribution.
I first used sidux by taking a plain Debian Etch system that I had previously installed, pointed the binary updates to Sid instead of Etch, upgraded to Sid, then added in the sidux binary repository, then upgraded again. I specifically pulled in the sidux scripts and the h2 extra scripts, then maintained a Debian Sid system using sidux tools.
Since then I have installed a number of sidux systems and I update my systems regularly. I found that I could actually use them reliably for every day use without regular failures.
I just updated my sidux systems last night, so even without downloading the ISO image for sidux I have the latest system installed at home. I highly recommend sidux as the best cutting edge desktop system out there today.
152 • RE: 96 (by Landor on 2008-09-23 16:17:22 GMT from Canada)
74, 78 and 85 I do believe...They were all posted by me, Landor :)
There is an error in your reasoning...You are talking of the "Defacto Literal" when it comes down to D. Robbins and his position, or not, in Gentoo at the time.
If I was to separate from my wife and never divorce her to my dying day (which was the case for many through time, and no doubt many still), would I still be married to her? No, only my the thinnest stretch of the "legal imagination", which I have come to know people in just such a situation, and no court ever upheld that "legal fact".
Old saying? Not worth the paper it was written on?
So D. Robbins was in no way, shape, or form really the "official head" by any legal stretch of the term. Rue to the court system that agreed he was. Sometimes absence does "not" make the heart grow fonder.
I also feel that D. Robbins was yesterday. When you stay lvinng in yesterday common sense only dictates that you cannot progress today, or tomorrow. This is one of the major contentions I have with everyone always drudging up D. Robbins when it comes to Gentoo "currently". The man moved on. For Gentoo to grow people ned to shrug off the legend of Gentoo and look towards a new era unfolding as they find people to take on the reigns in an adequate manner. This takes time...One first felt a great person to fill a position can easily become the wrong person. Anyone in life has seen this happen at the very least once in the span of years. Due to that, time cannot be of the essence, it can only be granted in liberal share to allow for "life".
My feeling on the matter of Gentoo related news here at Distrowatch is the Benevolent Dictator has a bias that he may not have admitted, but he has left breadcrumbs to follow to that conclusion. Any logic fielded regarding the subject has been ignored with a simple statee like (though not an accurate quote) "You cannot convince me that Gentoo is all and well, it is not the same Gentoo of old". That in itself speaks volumes as you'd surmise. But to address that statement. Neither is my car, or any other thing that changes. With the original creative force no longer at the head of anything in this world, yes, I agree, it will no longer be what it was, change will make it what it is "now".
Oh, and just in case you didn't undestand why I posted as I did with #74. I personally find it quite sad when any developer makes any comment about another project. So since I was aware that davemc worked on PCLOS, I thought a bit of turnabout was in order :)
Suffice to say, Gentoo seems to be in a better position than PCLOS "across the board" :)
You like poems, I'll like lyrics, and I'll post a fitting line from a song by Bad Company that i've used here before...
"Don't you know that you are a shooting star, and all the world will love you just as long, as long as you are...."
Keep your stick on the ice...
153 • Interesting diversity of opinions this week (by Brian Masinick on 2008-09-23 16:53:43 GMT from United States)
One of the great things about free and open software is that it allows you to customize and tailor it to suit your own needs. It is not surprising at all to me, then, that we have so many different needs, interests, and opinions expressed on this site regarding our favorite systems, not only how they work, but how they are announced, described, and depicted by others.
The mere fact that we can discuss these things freely in a forum that can be easily accessed and widely read is a testimony to the power that Internet technology puts at our fingertips.
I do believe that power also comes with responsibility. I believe that we are all entitled to a difference of opinion. Personally, I choose to offer my differing opinions in a respectful way, even when my disagreements are sharp.
I believe if you closely examine the disagreements of some of our major contributors you will find that while they have strongly differing points of view, I have not seen any of them attack the personality or character of the other.
Given the openness of this forum, unless there really is censorship, if someone wants to get hostile, that is their choice. Most people will either ignore the hostility or join in it. My personal preference is to engage in good, healthy debate, but never to intentionally make a character attack or any deliberately hostile comment - but that is just my preference. I'm not going to attempt to silence anyone else, even if their need to vent has a hostile tone. I will, however, for my own self, prefer to keep an even disposition and a respectful attitude toward everyone as much as possible.
154 • # 152 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 17:37:42 GMT from Canada)
> ("They were all posted by me, Landor ")
You were the author of # 74 ?
Wrong - Robbins was still the legal head of the foundation.
Still involved in foundation matters, still contributing to varied development projects
It was perhaps unwise of him to re-enter the maelstorm -
but at that time there was only ONE foundation member remaining
Gentoo as a legal entity was in limbo
However, that is all their business.
Anyone grabbing at it, to justify "Gentoo is dying"
- Is promoting B.S for own ends
- Has the mentality of child
-So what does that say of those who are eager to agree or summarily try
to give credence to lies by way of their "Me_too'ism" mouthings
Why Ladislav risks beinbg called "biased" is obvious
He has always promoted confrontation
It is his stock in trade approach to gain readership,
DW is not run as a non-profit "service"
DW is very much self-serving
If he wanted to discuss what innovation really is -
the subject is not broached by Goering propoganda methods
Even if he were right in summary castigations (which he is NOT)
As the widely known (there is a difference to just being known vs *honest* BTW)
he is held to higher standards than mere readers.
155 • Gentoo to Sabayon (by RollMeAway on 2008-09-23 17:44:41 GMT from United States)
I believe Ixnay (Sabayon) and team has the enthusiasm and stamina, Daniel Robbins once had for gentoo. I've sampled sabayon since it started as RR4. I expected Ixnay to burn himself out long before now. Instead his team has grown and the distro is blossoming.
The creation of binaries and supporting programs: Entropy, Equo, and Spritz for gui, make the distro usable by those unwilling to take the time to compile a system. Emerge is still there for the hard core with time on their hands to use.
It makes no sense to have 10,000 users compile a program (Firefox alone takes about 2 hours) when it can be compiled once and distributed. Separate repos for each arcitecture will cover a larger audience.
If burnout doesn't occur, Sabayon will be the major distro Gentoo once was.
156 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 18:20:58 GMT from Canada)
Re-compiling's prime reasons ? Amongst others, it allows customisations not possible otherwise.
I.E. - non-essential linked bindings may be *added* not only stripped
Sampling gives the initial "feel" but sources-based esoteria is much more involved than tentative use will reveal
Even to very experienced users (Esp if binary base-oriented)
Gentoo has always had binary Apps available, for those who wanted them
At one time IIRC, they were included on a seperate Cd ?
Sabayon IS Gentoo - forked to advocate graphical candy as a default install
As stated - think long and hard what constitutes true innovation
Hint - It is not Apps or desktop variations
157 • the source of the offense (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 18:51:00 GMT from United States)
I don't have a problem with people who want to make a religiously-themed linux distribution.
What is offensive about Ubuntu Christian Edition, however, is the mixing of the Ubuntu logo with Christian symbols in an attempt to conflate the two, to imply that Ubuntu itself is a Christian thing. I'll bet it is that attempted implication that is the source of offense for most people who object to Ubuntu CE.
It is similar to the way that patriotism and Christianity are conflated in the United States, with flag stickers that always say "God Bless America" or "In God We Trust". Christians just seem to have this peculiar way of assuming that everyone else agrees with them and holds the same opinions they do.
I'll give another example. I have a lot of red t-shirts in my wardrobe, due to many visits to Gay Days at Disney World. One day I went to work on a Friday, wearing a red shirt, only to discover a poster that said "Wear red on Fridays to support the troops". Well, I DON'T "support the troops", and I didn't appreciate my choice of t-shirt being co-opted into a political statement that I don't agree with.
158 • #157 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 19:29:21 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
159 • Landor & his opinions (by Anonymous Coward on 2008-09-23 19:37:35 GMT from Korea, Republic of)
After not visiting DW for about a year, it is to my horror that I realise that Landor not only still comes to this website but that he also still keeps his stick in the ice... Oh it hurts.....
Just needed to get that off my chest before I went to bed...
Ladislav, the cheatlist is a cool idea!
keep up the good work... :)
160 • Re: 148 (by Duhnonymous on 2008-09-23 19:57:19 GMT from United States)
"apt-cache search " is already in the cheat sheet. However, it might be helpful to note that there is a difference between:
apt-cache search : search names and descriptions
apt-cache -n search : search just names
161 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-09-23 20:01:29 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
162 • No subject (by Klaus on 2008-09-23 20:15:01 GMT from Norway)
Ladislav, could you please correct the error mentioned in comment #53 ?
163 • @149 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-23 21:32:34 GMT from Canada)
I don't use KDE myself, actually (always been a GNOME user) so I can't honestly give you detailed answers to that. As far as I know, KDE 4 has been designed with the Nepomuk metadata handling features as an integral part of it, so I'm not sure you actually can just 'disable' them in a KDE 4 desktop. It'd be like trying to 'disable' kded, or something.
I might be wrong, and you might get something more useful / accurate out of a KDE developer, but that's the situation as far as I'm aware.
Note that Nepomuk itself is not an indexer. It doesn't automatically crawl around and index any of your stuff. It interfaces with Strigi for that, so if you don't want that to happen, disable Strigi. AFAIK, and according to http://nepomuk.kde.org/discover/user , if you have Strigi disabled, all Nepomuk currently does is let you create and than handle some currently pretty embryonic forms of metadata - like tagging, rating, and commenting files in Dolphin. If you don't take advantage of those features, Nepomuk will basically be doing a big bunch of nothing.
164 • RE: 151 (by IMQ on 2008-09-23 23:34:09 GMT from United States)
Sidux is a kool presentation of a Debian desktop using cutting edge packages and the sidux team has done a wonderful job keeping the unstable useful and... quite stable!
I prefer Debian or Debian-based distros but I also like Mandriva and their derivatives.
BTW, Lenny is coming along nicely. Looking forward to the final release.
165 • RE 161 (by Noboy important on 2008-09-24 00:36:16 GMT from United States)
About time you said something I agree with.
But off 161, I think that religion is a part of everything for a lot of people. Power to those who use the distro, but from what I've seen it's just Ubuntu with a few modified packages. I strongly feel that distros such as that should be taken off the DW roster. They add little to no effort to the Linux community.
I'm fine with the distro (I could care less), but I'm offended that it's being tracked on Distrowatch when there are plenty of other, quality systems that nobody cares about. I'd feel better if it were filled with ad-space, to be completely honest, and in it's current form it does nothing but rile the masses.
166 • # 165 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 01:36:09 GMT from Canada)
We have agreed to disagree - but ( aside from tongue in cheek cutesies most here, me included *slip on*)
All was stated moderately, honestly
Another thing we can agree on
The broader topic of whatever Ladislav censors as "off-topic"
So long as it dealt w/his argument with Mint personnel - all was on-topic
EG. # 65 & # 65
Non-linux relevant "red/pink" shirts & not supporting troops was OK
His consistently choosing topics that incites is OK
Notice a trend ?
The deleted posts were neither swearing nor over-the top (such as divergent "religious" tibits
L.B. is "very" selective over topics viewed as "Off- limnits"
That is correctly defined as arbitrary censorship enforced upon what he already chose to focus -
Topics of highly contentious issues (chosen for what purpose) ?
Do they serve furthering Linux community spirit ?
167 • 163 re nepomuk (by RollMeAway on 2008-09-24 01:56:52 GMT from United States)
Thanks Adam for trying to quell my paranoia. I'm afraid it hasn't worked. Nepomuk IS built into kde4 base. NOT removable! Strigi can be removed, but the libstrigi cannot. Curious no?
I have read this organization has approached Gnome to get them onboard too. Should Gnome refuse, I just might be a convert.
168 • @167 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-24 06:03:24 GMT from Canada)
"Strigi can be removed, but the libstrigi cannot. Curious no?"
Not...really. That's how shared libraries work, after all. If you build a binary against a library, even if the functionality in question happens not to be used by any particular running or configuration of that executable, it will always intrinsically require the library, i.e., it won't run without it.
If you compile app Bar against library Foo, Bar will always require Foo, even if when *you use* Bar, you disable all the Foo functions of it. That's unavoidable given the way linking of executables and libraries works.
169 • nobody's perfect... (by forest on 2008-09-24 10:26:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why do we have to have slagging off and anti this and that may I ask? There go my illusions of Linux community, LOL.
Everybody pitches in with his or her personal feelings ref their own particular favourite distro. In truth they are all the same and yet all different in the detail only.
Surely it is not beyond the bounds of possibility to simply bung a package together with one desktop and "working" internet connection with , wifi, Ethernet whatever...together with latest (at time) kernal. Bung Synaptic on the top and that's all that's needed, really it is.
Simply d/l a much smaller iso and, when running, just d/l whatever you need from an open repository. In a very recently released distro...no names...there are four web browsers, almost as many email wotsits and more than one word processor...err...why? Some have several media players...again, why?
You can only play one at a time. Like everybody else I have d/l others but provided they have all the codecs needed for whatever, it must only be a waste of memory to have unused progs/applications sitting on your h/d, never mind all this dependency stuff.
Similarly, for example, word processor packages. Not everyone wants/needs/uses all the doodads such as spreadsheets or presentation packages so why not allow the d/l of only the specific element required?
It would save bandwidth, energy, time etc, etc. If the distros were offered, up front as it were, in different language versions you would not need to include a whole host of tongues at all.
Now, it may be some folk disagre with my sentiments, fair enough, but my suggestion does at least have the merit of energy saving, LOL!
Perhaps it could be labeled as a "green" version...?
170 • No subject (by capricornus on 2008-09-24 11:01:51 GMT from Belgium)
Downloaded: Sidux 2008.3 AMD64 and Mint 5 AMD64 rc1
System: AMD64 (of course) on Gigabyte MB.
Tried to install: Sidux, every option stalls, thus no Sidux
Installed: Mint, without any problem, just as fluently as Xubuntu 8.04 AMD64.
ia32-libs is already installed, everything works: (the older version of) VLC plays http://www.di.fm/aacplus/chillout.pls without hesitation, ánd CrossOver gives no problems once the NVIDIA driver is installed and the system is rebooted.
Many AMD64 are sold, many people could be made happy with this version of Mint, so I think that DW could and should have mentioned it. Do no evil. Do good.
171 • Re: davemc (by davecs on 2008-09-24 11:18:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
Has he worked on PCLinuxOS or are you mixing him up with me?
I certainly would not slag off Gentoo, it was my previous distro of choice.
172 • #166 - Selective censorship (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 12:59:46 GMT from United States)
Since I wrote #158 in reference to the comments in #157 and I got deleted and #157 obviouosly did not...I have to agree with the selective censorship. And it isn't the first time my response has been deleted to a post that wasn't. If my post was off topic...his definitely was....be fair or don't delete...one or the other.
173 • Anon (by Anon at 2008-09-24 14:11:14 GMT from Canada)
Am i the only person here who does not understand the use of flames over a blog comment board? Im just reading through the crap between the admin and many of the populace, If you dont like how the site is run, just grow a pair and leave, dont lurch be a general pain in the ass, just go.
174 • Picky people (by Anonymous Coward on 2008-09-24 14:25:05 GMT from Korea, Republic of)
Why is everyone so hard on Ladislav?
Ladislav is just human... It is not like he has a degree in psycology or major studies in "fairness for all"...
The guy is clearly well reasoned and justifies most of his actions...
And as far as I know, he works mostly alone, and there's no team of PR experts to handle every single event.
So chill people, and let the guy do what he does best...
BTW, Ladisav, sometimes I think you are too nice to everyone. I'd be a lot more likely to ignore a lot of these trolls... There's no reasoning with some people, so why bother? While others will always complain no matter what... As long as you have a clear conscious and you can sleep at night, all is good.
Keep up the good work...
175 • seeing post 172 (and others) (by Geoff on 2008-09-24 15:05:14 GMT from United States)
"Selective censorship" seems right at first, I've had posts here removed and have not been able to find a common reason for that, nor have I been able to find a reason for some posts remaining.
I do not think, though, that Ladislav Bodnar is truly "censoring" this website so much as doing his best to keep it on-topic, tidy and free of flotsam and jetsam that can accumulate in a forum where anyone with web access can post.
I don't like to see my posts suddenly vanish. But Mr. Bodnar is giving a huge amount of needed service to the linux community with this distrowatch website and he is only taking away a few paragraphs we write from time to time. That's my perspective.
176 • FUD about Gentoo (by Zaccret on 2008-09-24 15:37:12 GMT from Germany)
I use Gentoo since 2003 or 2004. I remember having to wait for maybe one or two Gnome releases and KDE 4 release, and that’s all. I also remember a lot of improvements in Portage.
The facts are :
- Gentoo still has the BEST documentation in several languages,
- Gentoo still has a big number of packages (12649 packages available for x86 at 08/31)
- Gentoo is still one of the most easily customizable/administrable distro.
I don’t understand the reasons of this FUD. Please Ladislav, don't link to such unfounded assertions : decline of Gentoo... what a joke :-p
177 • Vector Linux (by verndog on 2008-09-24 15:38:18 GMT from United States)
Any Vector users here? I notice they are giving the lite version away for free. I remember this Linux distro from years past. $25 isn't a lot of money, I'm assuming its all about codecs.
178 • Vector (by Anon E Moose on 2008-09-24 18:48:37 GMT from Canada)
Any time I've tried it, the graphical desktop has never worked properly (weird display corruption issues, or no display at all).
Quite possibly it does not like my old test laptops (which work with most any other distros I toss at them). Just tried the new release on a modern desktop, and once again it could not would not properly set up the graphical environment.
I've never found any satisfaction on the Slackware side of the fence, unfortunately, and I've better things to do than futz with something that ought to just work.
179 • Hasty Assumptions (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 19:37:06 GMT from Canada)
# 177 > (" I'm assuming its all about codecs.")
Wrong - Rather than just assuming anything, read facts
# 178 < (" better things to do than futz with something that ought to just work.")
More FUD - ("could not would not") unless you choose to disbelieve
the vast majority of Vector users _
As for Slackware "generalities" it's like selective arbitrary decisions:
> All were unjustified when examined for validity or even common-sense in use
180 • package management cheatsheet (by simon on 2008-09-24 21:11:16 GMT from Germany)
What about apt-get autoremove? This command removes unneccessary dependencies (which are likely to remain after you installed and removed a lot of programs). In my opinion, this is a very useful option to clean up your system.
As far as I know there are many package management systems that do not provide this function, e.g. opensuse. Mandriva has now added it to urpmi (urpmi --auto-orphans).
181 • Not Vector (by verndog at 2008-09-24 21:52:14 GMT from United States)
According to your link here is an excerpt:
"In addition to an expanded first disk, the deluxe version comes with a second multimedia CD which contains loads of extras, including more applications, functionality and original artwork."
Now that was helpful, wasn't it --- NOT!
"..loads of extras...more applications...". Well with that informative list, I'll just go get me a copy -- NOT again!
I think Ref#178 says it all. At least he gave his experience, not a link to almost nothing.
182 • @ #181 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 22:14:06 GMT from Canada)
It's up to you - to see if assumtions were correct ( codecs only ) or if the 2nd CD may be value for YOU
If you cannot even care enough to check - why make mention to contents What contents are on 1st place ?
Why do you prefer to resort to mumbling banalitiies that blame hazy Promo wordings ?
Vector once ( likely still does) list App/utiity cntents on same mirrors used to Dwnld.
Why you are in Sync to spreading FUD > is on record
183 • @ #181 Truths vs Biases (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 22:46:06 GMT from Canada)
It's up to you - to see if *your* assumptions were correct (codecs only)
Or whether the 2nd CD might be of value for YOU
If you didn't even care enough to verify assumptions -
why make mention to what contents *are* on 1st place ?
Why do you prefer to resort to uttering pleonastic banalities that
> blame hazy Promo wordings ?
Vector once ( likely still does) list almost all contents on same mirrors used to Dwnld.
Why ^ how - certain elements here are attuned to spreading falsehoods > is on record
For more observant readers:
Many users seem to encounter difficulties adjusting *graphics*
be they desktops or managing "X-servers"
Solutions are not possible until the individual can distinguish between own deficiencies vs hacked pre-supplied vendor "values"
It is generally of little value to belabor a point, irrespective of salient truths revealed
Nor (attn, Verndog) is this any attempt to mimic the mythical journeys as told in the Iliad
As you wished to disparage
It may however, parrallel a much earlier discourse of the nature of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmenides (Pre -dated Socrates)
"the Way of Truth" vs Ways of (fallatious) Opinion
In the naunces of DWW fans' retorts, a reader might be excused if they ponder a more apt term might be
The first deals with facts of events, the second:
Gratuitous genufluctions, ploys to avoid public scrutiny of inequities
DWW is NOT a non-commercial platonic "gift" to Linux fans
It is a business venture, successes furthered by promoting dissention
It is a public site, inviting comments, those often censored to deflect > disregard to actual truths examined
184 • # 183 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-24 23:08:03 GMT from Canada)
BTW -= to clarify:
First iteration above was in deference to Verndogs' limitations of attention span
The expanded version, for more astute readers, capable of
assessing documented truths vs vested self-interests
185 • You know what's a nuisance? (by Ultra on 2008-09-25 01:01:31 GMT from Canada)
When you're using the mouse wheel to scroll a web page and you hit a flash animation, the scrolling stops, and you have to go to one side or the other to keep scrolling. Not sure if that's a Firefox/Linux thing or does it happen in Win too? I think it happens in Konq too.
186 • soon.... (by glyj on 2008-09-25 09:57:07 GMT from France)
have a look :
187 • mandriva notes (re# 186) (by jack on 2008-09-25 16:00:29 GMT from Canada)
Very clear and helpful series of notes
These, together with Adam's willingness to not only supply "official" answers but also to accept responsibily (ie. acknowledgement) of bugs makes Mandriva outstanding.
I was going to say unique but have only looked at a few versions of linux,
This type of responsibilty can, perhaps, be contrasted to the ubuntu site which has about 800 comments re "freezing" and in which I have been unable to find any "official" acknowledgement that such a problem exists. However I am frequntly wrong so please point me to such a response if I have overlooked it
188 • Linux package management cheatsheet (by Marcelo on 2008-09-25 16:00:54 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Please expand your package management cheatsheet to FreeBSD and OpenSolaris. This is very important for see the innovation of the free operating systems. Also include the port management from FreeBSD and Linux.
189 • 187 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-25 16:05:55 GMT from United States)
I once wrote about problems with freezing in Ubuntu. The only response I ever got was to be called a troll who is jealous of Ubuntu's success. After all, the guy calling me a troll hadn't experienced any freezing. I'm not sure what I would be jealous about considering that I was _using_ Ubuntu.
190 • RE:#189,187 You Have Them Like That Everywhere. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-25 18:52:58 GMT from United States)
Thats really ashame when people treat other people on forums with no respect. I'm a member of several different distro forums and sadly you can find that kind of hassle everywhere. Just because I don't have that problem with freezing doesn't mean it don't exist. Even tho I use Ubuntu I would like to say that Mandriva is an excellence linux distribution with a lot of good people behind it. Sometimes its just hard to avoid the a_holes of the world.
191 • Re: 189 - Ubuntu Freezing (by Ultra on 2008-09-25 19:05:55 GMT from Canada)
I also experienced freezing with Nautilus in Ubuntu in the 7.10 version. Fortunately I wasn't called a troll, guess I was lucky!
192 • Mandriva 2009 RC2 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-25 19:14:49 GMT from Canada)
Hey Mandriva 2009.0 RC2 has been available for hours now. I feel insulted by the fact that DistroWatch ignored such an important developement release...
Just kidding... :)
But where is the announcement?
193 • Lunar Linux package management (by DG on 2008-09-25 20:20:49 GMT from Netherlands)
Ladislav, as requested in #4, here's some info for Lunar Linux.
On Lunar Linux the packages are known as modules, and the repository
is known as the moonbase. There is one central moonbase that the user
downloads, but a user can create a new module in a persistent 'zlocal'
section of their local moonbase, or can copy an existing module to
zlocal in order to update version numbers, URLs, and other options.
All of the package management tools are all written in bash, as are
the module configuration files. The command line tools 'lin', 'lrm'
and 'lvu' provide lunar install, remove and view capabilities. The
higher level 'lunar' command can also provide a simple shell dialog
interface to package management.
Install package: lin module
Remove package: lrm module
Update package list: lin moonbase
Update system: lunar update
List repositories: n/a
Add repositories: n/a
Remove repositories: n/a
Search package: lvu search word
List installed packages: lvu installed
Note that Lunar Linux is a source-based distro and is not aimed at beginners.
The ISO is not a Live-CD, but is designed to be used either as a rescue disk
or to install a minimal system to the hard disk. After reboot, you will need a
network connection to download any additional sources to build your system.
194 • Ref#189 - 190 Ubuntu Flames (by Verndog on 2008-09-25 20:51:18 GMT from United States)
I'm also an active user on several forums. I've never experience any flaming or the like on the Ubuntu forums. That's one of the reasons I like Ubuntu. Their helpful forums. I've read in the past several topics regarding freezing without any harsh comments. Maybe it was in the past. I guess it depends on what part of the forum your most active on. There's only 4 or 5 that I read.
195 • 194 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-25 21:08:59 GMT from United States)
Just to clarify, it wasn't on the Ubuntu forums. I didn't see a need to post there given that it was already covered. The Ubuntu forums are usually friendly if not always helpful. Also, I'm sure it was just an ordinary user calling names.
I was just surprised to hear the freezing problems are still happening. I gave up on Ubuntu because of this months ago.
196 • @ # 4 etc - Disjunctive Dichotomies (by & & Teleology on 2008-09-26 04:09:32 GMT from Canada)
L.B - As the lead topic description was :
> ("an attempt to create a command-line package management cheatsheet that would cover just about *any Linux distribution available today" )
It seems a regretable oversight not to include mention - some sources-based distros offer binaries in their repositories
E.G. > Entropy is one of the main attractions widely advertised/known of Sabayon -
May I respectfully mention a minor point > If your intent was to
~ At some later date, delve into sources-based Pkge's:
> Need for a subsequent clarification disclaimer would have been averted
Some mention has been made of "innovation"
Topics have focused on similarities, (success or Tmp failures)
of primarily desktop useages
While the utilization/ease of portable "rescue" variants are
That might be more in keeping to evaluating *innovations" now under active development
~ Knoppix is widely accepted as one of the originators, many concepts a *driving force* spilling over to remastering ease
~ Re Different uses , at one time: There were few choices to
run virtualised O/systems other than VMware
~ How stable is the present capabilitiy to write to NTFS partitions ?
How many have used dedicated vs "general LiveCD" offerings to (example)
chroot build systems
~ Had any to use any of above to repair glitches of main hard drive installs
Dissecting minor variations between main-stream distros & arguing merits of forks -
Is to perhaps off-handedly dismiss the under-appreciated values of FOSS innovation
In the same manner as incautiously throwing out suggestions
Distro_X - has *too many* pet-hobby forkings
Or, > "This-that" distro is in death throes (says who , based on what)
It is contended > Not if based on solid research or proveable presentation of facts
197 • @ # 196 (by Nicolas on 2008-09-26 09:36:10 GMT from Germany)
"L.B - As the lead topic description was :
> ("an attempt to create a command-line package management cheatsheet that would cover just about *any Linux distribution available today" )
It seems a regretable oversight not to include mention - some sources-based distros offer binaries in their repositories
E.G. > Entropy is one of the main attractions widely advertised/known of Sabayon -
May I respectfully mention a minor point > If your intent was to
~ At some later date, delve into sources-based Pkge's:
> Need for a subsequent clarification disclaimer would have been averted"
"Or, > "This-that" distro is in death throes (says who , based on what)
It is contended > Not if based on solid research or proveable presentation of facts"
+1. "Decline of Gentoo" blog is not based on facts, look at the comments
198 • Package Managers (by Guy on 2008-09-27 04:56:02 GMT from Australia)
While you are talking about package managers, here is something worth comparing.
If you want to install Ubuntu on several computers, with additional programs not included on the installation CD, as well as all the latest updates, you can do the following. Install Ubuntu on the first computer. Download and install the addition programs and updates. Copy the files from /var/cache/apt/archives, except the file “lock” and the directory “partial”, to a CD, DVD, USB drive, etc. After installing Ubuntu on the other computers, copy these files to /var/cache/apt/archives. (You need to press “Alt-f2”, then type “gksudo nautilus” to get a file manager as a supervisor.) These additional programs and updates can then be installed on the other computers using Synaptic package manager and Update manager without having to be downloaded again, which saves a lot of time. If you do this some time later, and there have been more recent updates, it will download just the more recent updates. I assume this probably works on all Debian based distributions.
A few years ago, I checked this idea out on a different distribution. By default it deleted the files after installation. The settings could be changed to save them. However, the files were downloaded to a number of different directories, which made the process too complicated.
It would be worthwhile knowing, with each of the package managers, which ones is this process can easily be done. Or is there some other way of installing additional programs and updates to several computers after downloading them just once. This saves a lot of time. With some internet deals, it also saves money.
199 • Re #198 Package managers (by DG on 2008-09-27 10:05:08 GMT from Netherlands)
With Lunar Linux, the downloaded source tarballs are stored in /var/spool/lunar
so you could easily [ copy that to CD etc and ] transfer to another machine.
You can also dump the list of currently installed module using 'lvu export',
copy that list to the new machine and run 'lvu import'.
200 • RE: 163 (adam williamson) strigi and nepomuk can be disabled (by killer1987 on 2008-09-27 10:42:34 GMT from Italy)
strigi and nepomuk can be both disabled via systemsettings->advanced->desktop search.
pS=adam, try kde 4.1 out : )
201 • Disfunctional Dichotomies (by Anonymous on 2008-09-27 20:16:41 GMT from Canada)
The week is winding down - what is to be expected in future ?
@ # 173 & # 174
Attempting to present facts vs discordance_
Re > L.B.s leading-on "Official" commentaries
@ # 197 ("+1. "Decline of Gentoo" blog is not based on facts, look at the comments")
Plse NOTE Mr Bodnar's > ("~ combativeness in this bug report ~")
After much soul searching, I reluctantly took the time/efort to read *all* of 132 coments:
~ It was supposed to be for bug reporting & status
~ It devolved (much like all BLOGs do) into non-useful banter
NOTE -the traffic was largely from over-eager, un-informed users commentary
(not KDE-team or release developers)
Impatient to TRY out new (modularised ? )KDE
Any *thinking* onlooker should have realised, as on all forums;
A discontented few are no reflection of true status of a distribution
Gentoo Mgt. did "release" a developer who arbitrarily flamed others,
(Banned some ? ) you can either imagine or delve for yourselves to verify why-
IMO - That developer likely "blew his cool", knee-jerked after usual taunts
from demands of impatient users ?
(Or dear, Gentoo is "declining" - every developer/user there is ... )
NOTE > Gentoo is not the only distribution slow including newer Kdes
(BTW please also be advised - It *IS* available by other Gentoo specific means)
Why Ladislav spreads this false propoganda is the question
which even the most uninformed/fervant DWW fans must now ask of him
Please notice the questionable manner he chose to present distorted facts
> ("remember when you could install the latest KDE from CVS with a single command?)
Was it covenience or his "oversight" (neglecting to qualify that disinformation)
Be advised, > *that newer modularisation of KDE ( also X-org)
> did not even exist, in time frame Mr Bodnar chose to use as "proof"
You decide - was his summary comment a blatant troll or fact:
> ("At the end of the day ~ (*at least for those who aren't in blind denial* ")
To reiterate in his own words "at the end of the day"
Why does Mr Bodnar prefer to continue his campaigns of Goering style tactics ?
Credibility has been brought into doubt - not of the usefullness of DW listings,
> but the owners "casual" approach to actual facts
Is it an unexplained quirk, or > an ??? "ploy" to increase readership
We only know two things for certain:
The facts as he paints > are not verified
> He does have a vested business self-interest to increase readership
Choosing to do so by unethical means destroys credibilty
202 • DistroWatch.com (by Damien at 2008-09-28 17:17:12 GMT from United States)
DistroWatch.com is my first stop for all things linux. I love the site. Keep up the good work.
203 • @200 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-28 19:34:44 GMT from Canada)
Ah, thanks for that Marcello. I'm not sure that'd constitute "turning off" to the satisfaction of the somewhat paranoid standards specified by the OP, though :)
I've got KDE 4 on my testbed system and used it briefly, but haven't had time to look at it in depth yet.
Number of Comments: 203
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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|• Issue 796 (2019-01-07): FreeBSD 12.0, Peppermint releases ISO update, picking the best distro of 2018, roundtable interview with Debian, Fedora and elementary developers|
|• Issue 795 (2018-12-24): Running a Pinebook, interview with Bedrock founder, Alpine being ported to RISC-V, Librem 5 dev-kits shipped|
|• Issue 794 (2018-12-17): Void 20181111, avoiding software bloat, improvements to HAMMER2, getting application overview in GNOME Shell|
|• Issue 793 (2018-12-10): openSUSE Tumbleweed, finding non-free packages, Debian migrates to usrmerge, Hyperbola gets FSF approval|
|• Issue 792 (2018-1203): GhostBSD 18.10, when to use swap space, DragonFly BSD's wireless support, Fedora planning to pause development schedule|
|• Issue 791 (2018-11-26): Haiku R1 Beta1, default passwords on live media, Slax and Kodachi update their media, dual booting DragonFly BSD on EFI|
|• Issue 790 (2018-11-19): NetBSD 8.0, Bash tips and short-cuts, Fedora's networking benchmarked with FreeBSD, Ubuntu 18.04 to get ten years of support|
|• Issue 789 (2018-11-12): Fedora 29 Workstation and Silverblue, Haiku recovering from server outage, Fedora turns 15, Debian publishes updated media|
|• Issue 788 (2018-11-05): Clu Linux Live 6.0, examining RAM consumpion, finding support for older CPUs, more Steam support for running Windows games on Linux, update from Solus team|
|• Issue 787 (2018-10-29): Lubuntu 18.10, limiting application access to specific users, Haiku hardware compatibility list, IBM purchasing Red Hat|
|• Issue 786 (2018-10-22): elementary OS 5.0, why init keeps running, DragonFly BSD enables virtual machine memory resizing, KDE neon plans to drop older base|
|• Issue 785 (2018-10-15): Reborn OS 2018.09, Nitrux 1.0.15, swapping hard drives between computers, feren OS tries KDE spin, power savings coming to Linux|
|• Full list of all issues|
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
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ArtistX was a Ubuntu-based bootable DVD containing many free multimedia software packages for audio, 2D and 3D graphics, and video production. The goal of this project was to showcase the variety of multimedia software available on the GNU/Linux platform and to enable creative individuals to accomplish their tasks with the help of Free Software.