| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 269, 8 September 2008
Welcome to this year's 36th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! This week's feature story is a review of Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 "Lenny" on the ASUS Eee PC. With Debian being the first Linux distribution to have an open communication channel with the Taiwan-based hardware manufacturer, our expectations were high, but is Lenny really a good choice for the popular ultra-portable? Read on to find out. In the news section, Google restarts the browser war with Chrome, Dell unveils the long-awaited Inspiron Mini 9, Mandriva Linux 2009 enters the release candidate stage, and Fedora calls on beta testers to help with testing the promising ext4 file system. Also worth a mention, a new community edition of openSUSE 11.0 with Enlightenment as its principal window manager is now available for download. Finally, a lot of interesting news for the fans of Linux Mint as Clement Lefebvre announces a range of upcoming community editions before giving an excellent interview on a Linux news blog. Happy reading!
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in ogg (9.6MB) and mp3 (9.6MB) formats (many thanks to Russ Wenner)
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 on ASUS Eee PC 900
In June 2008, the Debian project announced that it had started a cooperation project with ASUS in order to bring full support for the company's Eee PC to Debian. It had set up a Debian Eee PC page on the distribution's Wiki and has since released an installation image based on Debian's upcoming release - version 5.0 and code name "Lenny". While many other distributions have announced support for the Eee PC and released various CD and USB images claiming full or partial support for the popular netbook, Debian was the first project with an active communication channel between a Linux distribution and the Taiwan-based hardware manufacturer. So how does Debian GNU/Linux fare on the ASUS Eee PC some three months later?
First, I was curious to see whether any Eee PC support was being integrated into the mainstream Debian GNU/Linux 5.0. To test this, I downloaded the recently released Debian Live, another Debian's sub-project that promises to deliver a set of live Lenny images for those who prefer to install their distribution from a live CD, DVD or USB media. I used the live USB image, which I transferred to a 4 GB USB key in order to boot the ASUS Eee PC 900. While the boot process went well and the system came up with a working sound and correct screen resolution, neither the wired, nor the wireless network was active. As I discovered later, the kernel modules of the two network devices were not available on the stock Debian Lenny system and while it was possible to download the required modules from ASUS's web site, the lack of any development tools on the live media meant that it was not possible to compile them. That brought an end to my experimentation with Debian Live, which clearly is nowhere near ready for the Eee PC.
Next, I downloaded the 16 MB custom Debian USB image specifically designed for the Eee PC. My plan was to use an external SD card to boot the image, then install it to an external USB storage device, leaving the internal Solid State Drives (SSD) unmodified. This worked well; I used one of those SD card USB adapters to write the Debian Eee PC image to it:
dd if=debian-eeepc_20080729.img oflag=direct of=/dev/sdc
The installation went without a hitch. After I booted the machine from the external SD card (/dev/sdd), the system correctly detected the two internal solid state disks (the 4 GB disk as /dev/sda and the 16 GB one as /dev/sdb), and asked where to install the system. I chose the 4 GB external USB drive (/dev/sdc). The installer also asked which network adapter I preferred to use for system installation - the options were eth0 (Attansic Technology Corp. L2 100 Mbit Ethernet Adapter) or the wireless ath0 (Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI E). I chose the latter, then confirmed all the remaining options and went to get myself a cup of coffee. By the time the installer finished I could have had a dozen as installing the system to the external USB drive turned out to be a very lengthy process - it took more than four hours! And it definitely wasn't due to the slow download of packages over the network.
However, before rebooting the system, it was necessary to manually make some changes to the /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/menu.lst - the details are available here. If you are planning to follow these instructions, then one more warning - different models of Eee PC require a different set of changes so pay close attention to the note in the "Fixing GRUB configuration and /etc/fstab" chapter of the above page. In any case, if you reboot before making the required changes to these files, it is possible to fix them by mounting the USB drive on another computer.
First boot after installation. Once again, the sound and screen resolutions were correct, but still no networking. Even though the entire installation was performed over the wireless network, once booted into the newly installed system, the ifconfig command revealed that there was no device named ath0 and no kernel module corresponding to it. As I was to find out, to get the wireless network up, it was necessary to install the MadWifi package (the instructions are here). Luckily, the eth0 network interface worked as a "hotplug", so as soon as I plugged in the network cable, the system was all set up for some serious apt-get action. Installing MadWifi worked fine and soon I was able to surf the Internet from the balcony.
However, there were a few glitches. While having to do all the extra manual work, such as configuring GRUB and installing MadWifi, was unexpected from a system that claimed to provide support the Eee PC, more disappointments followed. Firstly, the network applet (nm-applet 0.6.6) present by default in the GNOME panel only registered the wired network, so if connected through the wireless one, it claimed "no networking" available. Secondly, the battery applet also gave an error, something to the effect of having only 1% of battery power. And the package update applet claimed that there were two updates ready for the system, but after launching the Update Manager, I was told that "your system is up-to-date" (see screenshot below). Some of these problems were the result of a recent kernel upgrade in Debian, which brought a new set of bugs and for which there are some known workarounds. So even though the system is usable in this state, those wanting a more authentic Eee PC experience with Debian need to be prepared to do much manual work on the command line.
Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 on an Eee PC - not a smooth experience
(full image size: 137kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Despite all the trouble that makes Lenny on the Eee PC somewhat hard to install and use at this stage, the good news is that the Debian Eee PC team continues to work on the existing issues. As I started typing this report, I noticed a new Eee PC image released just yesterday (Sunday). Labelled as debian-eeepc_20080907.img, it didn't take long before it found itself on the external SD card for the repeat of the 4+-hour installation process to see if anything has improved. Unfortunately, the same problems showed up again - the "broken battery" error, no wireless network, and the package update issues were still very much present in the new image.
Conclusions? The Debian Eee PC team has made it possible to run Debian Lenny on the ultra-portable, all right. All it takes is a bit of command-line work, some module compilation, and a few workarounds here and there and it will work - thanks also to the excellent documentation on the Debian Wiki pages. But the entire experience isn't particularly positive. Firstly, it's clear that, unlike Mandriva, Debian has not integrated the work done by its Eee PC team into the main Debian kernel. Secondly, getting Debian work on the Eee PC requires many unnecessary steps. If the installer has support for the Atheros wireless network card, why is it not available in the installed product? And if the installer is capable of detecting the installation target, why is it necessary to modify some critical system files after the installation is completed?
At the end of the day, it's obvious that Debian's support for the Eee PC is still very much work in progress. Until this work is completed, there are better distributions to run on the little laptop.
Google Chrome, Dell Inspiron Mini 9, Mandriva Linux 2009 RC1, Fedora update status and ext4 testing, openSUSE with Enlightenment, interview with Clement Lefebvre
The two big stories of the week that occupied the pages of many Linux web sites were the release of Google Chrome, a new web browser built by the world's largest search engine, and the announcement about the Dell Inspiron Mini 9, a new entry into the world of ultra-portables or "netbooks", as some prefer to call them. Disappointingly, none of them is ready for Linux users - Google Chrome is currently Windows-only (although support for Linux and Mac OS X is reportedly forthcoming) and the Mini 9 too is Windows-only at the moment (with the Ubuntu flavour promised to start shipping shortly). Still, most of those who tried Google's new software were highly impressed, while most of the reviewers lucky enough to be able to test the US$350 Dell laptop were also rather positive about the hardware. If you are interested to find out more, here is a good interview with John New, the Dell Inspiron Mini 9 product manager.
* * * * *
On the distribution front, Mandriva has entered the final testing period last week with the first release candidate of Mandriva Linux 2009. The release looks good, with the new KDE 4.1.1 as the default desktop (KDE 3.5.10 is available from online repositories) and several new features, such as the redesigned system installer, automatic repository configuration and mirror selection in Rpmdrake, and further integration of the official Mandriva theme and artwork. But Mandriva also warns that upgrading from version 2008 to the current release candidate is not recommended: "There are unresolved issues with KDE which are likely to result in any system upgraded from any stable release to this beta being unable to start a desktop, rendering it useless for most people. Please only use this beta as a clean installation, and, as always, do not expect to be able to use it as a day-to-day workstation; keep an installation of a stable Mandriva release for this purpose."
Mandriva Linux 2009 RC1 - the brand new desktop look and feel
(full image size: 348kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Following the recent compromise of the Fedora download servers, Jesse Keating has published an update on the status of package updates for Fedora's versions 8 and 9: "As you well know, we have been working hard to get updates for 8 and 9 flowing again, complete with new package signing keys. Discussion has been somewhat quiet on this front as we've all had our heads down and have been working hard toward a solution, one that involves little to no manual effort on behalf of our users. Today we've reached a major milestone in this progress. We have done a successful compose of all the existing and pending updates for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, all signed with our new keys. These updates will soon hit mirrors in a new set of directory locations. What we don't have quite yet is the updated fedora-release package in the old updates location that will get you the new keys and the new repo locations. The last mile testing of this update requires that new updates be live on the mirrors."
In the meantime, the development of Fedora 10 continues with testing of the various features that will eventually appear in the distribution. One of them is support for ext4, a new journaling file system that is a successor to the widely-used ext3. Last week, Eric Sandeen issued a call for testing: "Just my semi-annual plea for some ext4 testing in the Fedora beta cycle. With the e2fsprogs 1.41.0 release in Fedora 10, we now have an ext4-capable e2fsprogs, with working fsck, debugfs, etc as well as mkfs.ext4 and mkfs.ext4dev to enable the new disk format features by default. For Fedora 10, the barrier to entry has been lowered by 14 characters - now all you have to type on the boot prompt is "ext4" and when you go to the custom partitioning screen, you'll get the option to create ext4 file systems at install time. I'd appreciate any and all testing, benchmarking and feedback that people would be willing to do. Just getting more exposure in real-life scenarios would be great."
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How would you like to run an openSUSE 11.0 with Enlightenment as its principal desktop? If you are interested, here is the good news, courtesy of Dmitry Serpokryl: "Glad to announce the release of Enlightenment live CD based on openSUSE 11.0. The main purpose of this disk was to bring the cutting edge SVN code of Enlightenment to your desktop. We tried to pick the best software and make some tiny adjustments to save your time and deliver the best out-of-the-box experience. The main concept is to provide a relatively small, fast, stable, secure and 'transparent' distribution for users. Enlightenment DR17 desktop shell (E17) along with the EFL (Enlightenment Foundation Libraries) applications aimed to be the major environment. Enlightenment DR16 (E16) is used as the default window manager. IceWM is provided for those who can't live without the panel located in the bottom of the screen and the Start button in the lower left corner. TWM is for deep meditation in the dark. Selected programs proven to be the best in their area are included in the base distribution set." Here is a quick download link to the live CD: suse-11.0-live-iso.i686-2.5.1.iso (682MB, login: linux, password: soad).
openSUSE 11.0 with Enlightenment 17 - great theme, sexy effects
(full image size: 989kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Finally, a link to a nice interview with Clement Lefebvre, the founder and lead developer of Linux Mint: "Q: Where will Linux Mint go from here on? A: Up :) The Windows market will slowly shrink and Linux Mint will remain among the most successful distributions. The more people are aware of the choice they have the more they'll start using Linux and I can see a snowball effect has already started. I don't know if Linux Mint will become as popular as say Debian or Ubuntu within the Linux market but it surely will get its fair share of new users when people start migrating from Windows. As for us we'll continue to do what we do best, improve what we have, innovate and gather our users' feedback."
|Released Last Week
Lucas Holt has announced the release of MidnightBSD 0.2.1, a FreeBSD derivative with the goal of creating a BSD with ease of use and simplicity in mind: "MidnightBSD 0.2.1 has been released. This version focused on adding hardware for newer devices including ATI, NVIDIA and Intel SATA controllers, and wireless support standard. A great deal of work was put into creating packages with over 2,000 packages available on our FTP server. The new release includes two CDs of packages plus X11 on disc1. Other software updated: GCC 3.4.6, BIND 9.4.2-p1, Sendmail, bzip2, OpenSSH 5.0p1, PCC compiler added (i386), removal of GNU cpio for BSD licensed version, cpdup added, IPv6 fixes, mksh added. Users who install KDE from the ISOs will be able to enable graphical login on boot-up. A script now runs on the first boot asking to enable BSDStats and 'graphical desktop environment'." See the full release announcement for additional details.
Scientific Linux 4.7
Troy Dawson has announced the release of Scientific Linux 4.7, an updated build of the project's legacy version based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 4: "Scientific Linux 4.7 has been released. It doesn't have any exciting new features, it is just a nice, stable release. Scientific Linux release 4.7 is based on the rebuilding of RPMs out of SRPMs from Enterprise 4, including Update 7. It also includes all errata and bug fixes up until September 03, 2008." Scientific Linux enhances the standard RHEL with a number of applications, including a cluster suite, the FUSE file system, IceWM window manager, Intel wireless firmware, Java, MadWifi, OpenAFS file system and others. For more information please see the release announcement and read the comprehensive release notes.
BOSS GNU/Linux 3.0
BOSS GNU/Linux is a Debian-based GNU/Linux desktop distributions developed in India, supporting a number of Indian languages. Yesterday a new major version was announced on the project's web site: "Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC) has launched its Bharat Operating Systems Solutions (BOSS) GNU/Linux software version 3.0, developed by NRCFOSS (National Resource Centre for Free/Open Source Software). BOSS version 3.0 is coupled with GNOME and KDE desktop environments with a wide Indian language support and packages that are relevant for use in the government domain. The software is also endowed with Bluetooth for short range of communications along with salient features like RSS feed reader and PDF viewer. The objective of creating BOSS Linux is to enable the non-English speaking people of India to be exposed to the benefits of free and open source software and GNU/Linux." Here is the complete press release.
SystemRescueCd 1.1.0, a major new version of the popular hard disk partitioning and data rescue live CD, has been released. What's new? "New features introduced in SystemRescueCd-1.1.0: advanced customization - you can now install new packages to SystemRescueCd by doing an advanced customization; kernel recompilation - there is new documentation about building a customized SystemRescueCd with your own kernel; backstore - this tool allows you to keep your changes when you reboot SystemRescueCd; nameif - this tool allows you to specify the name of each Ethernet interface using the Mac address; rsync tutorial - new documentation about how to use rsync; added development tools (GCC, make) and Gentoo tools (emerge, equery); ability to install your own packages using the Gentoo commands (emerge)..." These are just some of the most interesting changes, but there are many more, please read the full changelog for additional details.
SystemRescueCd 1.1.0 uses the JWM window manager at the desktop level.
(full image size: 60kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
The OpenBSD project has published a page dedicated to its upcoming release, version 4.4, scheduled for 1 November 2008. The new version will have improved hardware support, several new tools, new functionality in existing utilities, code clean-up, OpenSSH 5.1, and the usual range of included software packages, such as GNOME 2.20.3, KDE 3.5.8, Firefox 3.0.1 and OpenOffice.org 2.4.1. For more information please see the OpenBSD 4.4 page. The release is already available for pre-order (C$50.00).
Linux Mint 5 Community editions
The Linux Mint project has published an update on the various community editions that are currently being completed. The first ones, the Xfce and Fluxbox editions, will arrive later this week, while the KDE edition is expected to arrive as soon as the last glitch is fixed. From the announcement: "Xfce CE (stable) will be released early next week; Fluxbox CE (RC) will be released before the next weekend; KDE CE RC1 was close to being stable, there's a tiny little glitch with xdg-user-dirs which I want to fix so technically the final ISO will be different but if you're running KDE CE RC1 you don't need to wait for the final release; work on the x86_64 edition is on hold for a few days; there won't be any time dedicated to the Debian and Enterprise editions before Mint 6 is out; Main and Light (which will become 'Universal' and will come with language packs) will have a new revision to include the new Firefox, Flash 10 (when it's stable), and the latest versions of the mint tools."
Linux Mint 5 "Xfce" edition - the default desktop showing the mintConfig control centre
(full image size: 440kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
Possible site downtime|
DistroWatch.com might become unavailable for brief periods of time later this week. The hard disk carrying the web site has being showing some early warning signs of deterioration, so it's time for a replacement. Tomorrow (Tuesday), the web site will be temporarily migrated to a virtual server (with a new IP address), so that the hard disk can be re-imaged and replaced. With luck, you won't notice any downtime, but if DistroWatch.com happens to be inaccessible, please remember that there are several mirrors in the USA and Europe (e.g. distrowatch.serve-you.net, more are listed at the bottom of this page), so you might want to bookmark one of those.
* * * * *
New distributions added to database
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New distributions added to waiting list
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DistroWatch database summary
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And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 15 September 2008. Until next week,
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Eee PC (by Songsinger on 2008-09-08 10:07:48 GMT from United Kingdom) |
Your opening remarks are correct, Ladislav. The compact Puppy Linux derivative is perfectly matched to this compact device and is being improved daily. Debian is based on a major distro, Puppy is what it is!
2 • I revoke Foobuntu! (by Distronator on 2008-09-08 10:10:55 GMT from Germany)
Last week I proudly announced Foobuntu, but Foobuntu is dead now. Long live UUbuuntuu, my new distribution based on Ubuntu and the UWM desktop environment (that's the Ultrix one for you noobs). The color scheme is still mauve. All hail me!
3 • RE #1 (by Distronator on 2008-09-08 10:14:45 GMT from Germany)
Hey, I'm supposed to be in slot 1.
Anyway, Debian is not based on a major distro, Debian is a major distro -- unlike, say, Puppy. ;)
4 • No subject (by Songsinger on 2008-09-08 10:43:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re. No.3 - excuse my shorthand for (This) Debian (version) is based on a major distro - Debian -,....
5 • Re #4 (by Distronator on 2008-09-08 10:58:56 GMT from Germany)
6 • Two different errors (by Béranger on 2008-09-08 11:06:16 GMT from Romania)
"Forbidden: You don't have permission to access /images/screenshots/debian-5.0-eeepc.png on this server."
"Forbidden: You don't have permission to access /images/screenshots/opensuse-11.0-enlightenment.png on this server."
2. In http://distrowatch.com/5071, "The testers were pretty unanimous in stating that GNOME was not the proper development environment" is containing a wrong expansion for "DE". It's "desktop environment", not "development environment"!
7 • No subject (by NeverMyself on 2008-09-08 11:46:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Debian isn't looking too good hm? Debian users will hate me for saying this, but their distro has been going downhill since the OpenSSL mishap.
8 • EeePC and Debian (by lefty.crupps on 2008-09-08 12:21:20 GMT from United States)
I've been running Lenny off the SD card since about a week after the first EeePC was released, keeping the Xandros version to show people who want to see Easy Mode.
KDE (first 3.5.x and now 4.1) both run great, and the power lifetime of the battery is still pretty good (over 3 hours). The wifi did take some work to set up especially when I upgraded kernels, and the current 2.6.26 doesn't allow you to build the madwifi so I am using 2.6.24 just fine.
Overall, its been a great setup, and I installed it from a netinstall CD of Etch with dist-upgrades to its current Lenny level. Top notch performance and its been great to have a full KDE.
9 • Distros and Browsers (by Gene Venable on 2008-09-08 12:24:39 GMT from United States)
Sidux Debian is looking just fine; I'm still running it.
I had a surprisingly good experience with two of the new kids on the block -- they were new to me, anyway -- PC/OS, which I'm in now, and Kiwi Linux, which I think is from Romania. I like PC/OS's gutsy choice of Flock as its main browser, and its general setup is unique and sensible and works well with Java and Flash. Kiwi was a great out-of-the-box deal, with everything working right away, sort of reminded me of Linux Mint, though totally different and much less developed, but impressive in ease of use anyway.
In Windows I'm using the Google browser most of the time, and in Sidux I'm really enjoying Opera. So, with Flock in PC/OS and Firefox on everything, I'm having a lot of browser action.
10 • Puppy (by Gene Venable on 2008-09-08 12:43:06 GMT from United States)
"Anyway, Debian is not based on a major distro, Debian is a major distro -- unlike, say, Puppy. ;)"
Puppy is also not based on a major distro. It's its own thing. I'm not sure why you are kicking a puppy anyway -- it seems ignoble. Puppy is an excellent distro and has some good points lots of distros are missing.
11 • eeepc (by john frey on 2008-09-08 13:01:11 GMT from Canada)
I can't help wondering if you had installed to one of the internal drives whether you would not have had to edit fstab and grub. You ask , "if the installer is capable of detecting the installation target, why is it necessary to modify some critical system files after the installation is completed?" I don't know the answer to that but without testing we don't know if it would have installed just fine if you had used a more standard configuration.
How is the boot time off the external SD card? I presume it is much slower than the default Xandros but you don't say.
I'm curious about the kernel/s being used for this device. Given the hardware is static and the device has no option for add in PCI cards are the kernels being compiled without all the drivers one would need in a more general purpose distro? I was under the impression that the Xandros OS boots as fast as it does for that reason. I would think one big advantage of creating a hardware specific distro would be a much smaller kernel and less hardware probing during boot time.
...and no 7, I don't hate you. I just feel bad that you'll never know the joy of a Debian system.;)
12 • RE: 11 Eee PC (by ladislav on 2008-09-08 13:08:15 GMT from Taiwan)
I can't help wondering if you had installed to one of the internal drives whether you would not have had to edit fstab and grub.
No, you only need to edit fstab and menu.lst if you install to an external drive - whether a USB pen drive or an SD card.
How is the boot time off the external SD card?
I only used the external SD card to boot the Debian installer, so speed wasn't really something I cared about. As for the speed of the external USB drive, yes, it was much slower than Xandros, but roughly in line with Mandriva 2008.1 - around two minutes. Not very fast, but acceptable.
13 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-09-08 13:24:30 GMT from United States)
KDE (first 3.5.x and now 4.1) both run great, and the power lifetime of the battery is still pretty good (over 3 hours). The wifi did take some work to set up especially when I upgraded kernels, and the current 2.6.26 doesn't allow you to build the madwifi so I am using 2.6.24 just fine.
Debian places all sourceless firmware in non-free.
Also Google has released the source for Chrome so the claim that it is "Windows only" no longer applies.
14 • RE: 13 (by ladislav on 2008-09-08 13:31:10 GMT from Taiwan)
Also Google has released the source for Chrome so the claim that it is "Windows only" no longer applies.
Well, here is what Google has to say about Chrome on Linux on dev.chromium.org:
"There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable."
So you are right, Chrome for Linux exists. It just isn't very usable.
15 • @ Distronator (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-08 14:04:40 GMT from United States)
Dammit, right when I've figured out how to install the NVIDIA drivers and MP3 codecs on Foobuntu, too! Maybe this time I'll try Uubuuntuu on my EeeeeePC.
16 • MSI VR321 & Linux (by anonymous on 2008-09-08 14:07:53 GMT from Ukraine)
Taking the opportunity to ask at the broadest square there is amongst linux community...Have anybody had any experience with LInux (first, Debian, UBUNTU) at that VIA-based MSI laptop that some people consider as a nice EEE PC 90-1000 substitute. What have been you impressions tat that field? I would especially appreciate comments from those who had a DOS-equipped version, not SLED10SP1's one. Also, how it behaves with SLE10SP2 and the newer openSUSE? Thnx!!
17 • Re: 6 (by Linux Enthusiast on 2008-09-08 15:28:57 GMT from India)
"Forbidden: You don't have permission to access /images/screenshots/debian-5.0-eeepc.png on this server."
"Forbidden: You don't have permission to access /images/screenshots/opensuse-11.0-enlightenment.png on this server."
Instead of opening the pics in new tab, try clicking on them. That should solve your problem to view them.
18 • ext4 , Mint, SuSe and other stuff :) (by Verndog on 2008-09-08 16:03:12 GMT from United States)
I'm interested in the ext4 FS. I care more about speed than anything else I'm guessing that Fodera is the first to use this fs, even though anyone can probably get it working on there disto.
I like the new Xfce lightweight Mint. Maybe I'll try that on my older Compaq laptop. Also I see Suse has a lightweight Enlightenment.
SystemRescueCd has a new approach. I usually get disappointed since Acronis True Image is blazingly fast. I know it's commercial, and for good reason. NOTHING compares to it's backup & recovery speed and reliability. But in the end, I will download SystemRescueCd just to give it a whirl.
Lots of good info in this DWW!
19 • Slow SSD? (by Davey on 2008-09-08 16:40:45 GMT from United States)
I've been told that the 16GB SSD on the 900's Linux version is extrememly slow compared to the 12GB drive on the XP edition. Is this true? And if so could this be part of the reason for the very long install time?
20 • @16 (by john frey on 2008-09-08 16:49:16 GMT from Canada)
I'd like to hear too from anyone with experience on any of the VIA cpu based netbooks. Past experience has shown VIA cpu's underperform compared to AMD and Intel. Also like to hear about that Loongson CPU from China.
I'm looking forward to the release of Mandriva 9. I'm actually happy that upgrading won't be advised. I've been upgrading my current system since at least 2006. I'm sure there are bugs from the persistent settings in my /home files that could be resolved by a fresh install.
21 • TITAN LEV (by MacLone on 2008-09-08 16:52:40 GMT from Mexico)
I would like to know "how and why" someone takes what he gets for free from other developers and make it private and commercial giving a damn back to the community.
This TITAN LEV like other known "commercial" distros are getting money for something they got for free, they shouldn't unless they give it back for free too. I don't know exactly if GPL permits this but is not ethical.
22 • @21 and Titan Lev (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-08 17:19:20 GMT from United States)
I might agree it's unethical if they *had* anything to contribute back to the community. As it is, however, Titan Lev looks exactly like all the other derivative projects (particularly Ubuntu ones, like Distronator has been poking fun at) -- the only visible difference is they've changed the wallpaper. If they want to charge money for it, there's nothing wrong with that -- in fact, since it's a commercial project, it will serve them right when nobody buys it and they go under shortly afterwards. Capitalism works! (There's one for you, Anticapitalista. ;-)
Personally -- and yes, I admit some hipocrisy here -- I think what's more unethical is needless forking and private patches. Like selling "free" software for money, this is permitted by the GPL and many other licenses, but just because you *can* do it doesn't mean you *should*. I'm not going to attack others here (*ahem* Debian), because it would be unprofessional and frankly I haven't been involved in their development process firsthand, but before you start a fork, try to ask yourself whether you'd be better off helping the upstream project (and likewise, ask them if they'd be willing). I'm working to do that now with Wolvix; my project uses their installer code, and (among other changes) I hope to get some of my patches -- such as disk encryption support -- merged upstream. Of course, there's practical advantages to doing this, too: It's much easier to maintain and extend one version of a package, rather than duplicating efforts in two different codebases.
By the way, is that '23oz.' in the SuSE shot? That was one of my favorite themes back when I used DR16.
23 • Google Chrome, how do you get it? (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-08 17:30:46 GMT from United States)
Well I tried the download link for Google Chrome and its not working. Does anybody know why?
24 • EEEPC (by Selket on 2008-09-08 17:55:27 GMT from China)
I had absolutly no problems with my eeePC 701. The installation took long but everything worked OOB no need for tweaking at all!
25 • Re: Google Chrome, how do you get it (by Anonymous on 2008-09-08 18:15:41 GMT from India)
Install user agent switcher in firefox, restart firefox, and set it to IE7.
Then try to download chrome and it will get downloaded. The download link for chrome is disabled for linux as there is no version ready for linux.
26 • Screenshot for MDV 2009 wrong (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-08 18:22:25 GMT from Canada)
Hi, guys. Thanks for writing about 2009 RC1. However, the screenshot you've shown is not the default appearance of KDE 4 as it's intended to be. I'll try and email Ladislav a correct screenshot in a few hours.
27 • @20 re upgrading (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-08 18:23:41 GMT from Canada)
We are hoping to have upgrading working with the final release. Remember that MDV 'release candidates' are not really release candidates - we haven't even hit *version* freeze for 2009 release yet, never mind full freeze. We're currently testing a KDE 3 -> KDE 4 migration script which will hopefully handle the migration in the final release.
28 • RE: 25, Thanks for the info but I'm in Win2k now. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-08 18:32:54 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the info. If I was at home thats what I would do but I'm at work now and in Windows 2000. I'm going to try what you said anyway because I do use Firefox 3 at work.
29 • No go on Google Chrome. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-08 18:47:43 GMT from United States)
Well come to find out Google Chrome is for Window Xp or Vista only. I think they are evil.
30 • Free offer (by DOS on 2008-09-08 18:48:26 GMT from Canada)
Try the new Ubundtu Linux distro and you get a free Bundt cake pan mailed to you!
31 • Google Chrome (by Whitt Madden on 2008-09-08 18:58:57 GMT from United States)
I've been using Google Chrome as my default browser since it was released, and so far it's ran great. I'm anxiously awaiting a linux release!
32 • RE: 30, I WANT MY CAKE PAN!!! (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-09-08 19:13:14 GMT from United States)
Where can I get my Ubuntu cake pan?
33 • @ Adam Williamson (by Linux Enthusiast on 2008-09-08 20:10:26 GMT from India)
From where can I find the bittorrent links to download Mandriva Linux 2009 RC1?
34 • Just a few comments (by Nobody important on 2008-09-08 20:33:00 GMT from United States)
Nothing major, just wanted to say, a good DWW, as ever.
Regardless of the EeePC hullabaloo, I'm still looking forward to Lenny (because, for some strange reason, I don't feel like getting the release until they move it to stable - it's like a gift, in a way). I've tired of Ubuntu's ease of use, and I want something that actually lets me edit my xorg.conf file without blowing a gasket.
As for Chrome, I used it for a bit. It's pretty nice, though it's not going to top my usual Firefox usage. It loads a _little_ slower than Firefox and everything is very sensitive (one mouse scroll goes down twice Firefox's, though I'm sure I can change it if I want to), but the UI design is fantastic. It makes you wonder why Firefox and Opera have to take up two-inches-plus of screen space. Also on the plus side: 15 MB of RAM stolen per tab, versus Firefox's 23 MB, which is nice for those of us who have, on average, seven tabs open. If the Linux one is good, there's reason to believe that Firefox could have some competition.
Well, good read. Nice work, DW.
35 • @33 (by leif on 2008-09-08 21:34:31 GMT from Norway)
It does not look like they have made torrents for the betas. You can however download the isos from the mirrors listed here: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.0_RC_1#Availability
36 • New ubuntu based distro (by Gall on 2008-09-08 21:53:37 GMT from United States)
I'd like to let everyone know I'm working on a new Ubuntu based distro.
First the name is going to be All-buntu-the-kitchen-sink. It's going to be a general use distro and as such the project is going to have a very broad scope and massive selection of packages
Here is what I envision:
Thousands of programs that can be easily installed using the package manager.
It will run on a wide variety of architectures, x86, powerpc, arm, risc, IA64, AMD64, just to name a few.
There will be a large selection of window managers.
It will be suitable for both desktops and servers.
Potential users should understand that if you go with the defaults you'll get a stable usable and satisfying experience. However, because of the number of programs if you add things that are not in the default installation some configuration may be required .
I think this project has great potential.
Hey wait a minute.....that sounds a lot like......Debian. Oh my goodness we've come full circle.
37 • RE: 18 (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-09-08 22:55:25 GMT from United States)
Sabayon was the first distro to offer ext4.
38 • re #36 (by I love my debian. on 2008-09-08 22:56:52 GMT from Australia)
Very funny. Yep seriously though debian has it all. For me personally there is debian first and everything else third to daylight second.
39 • Google Chrome (by vbox user on 2008-09-08 23:14:19 GMT from Australia)
OK running firefox in Xp in Virtual box in debian. Downloaded Google Chrome. d/l and install took less than 1 minute. Working perfectly. Writing this from there.
So in a round about sort of way you can use Google Chrome in linux. Also you tube etc work just fine.
Virtual Box. The next best thing to sliced bread.
40 • RE: 26 Screenshot for MDV 2009 wrong (by ladislav on 2008-09-08 23:36:24 GMT from Taiwan)
I installed the RC1 Free edition from the DVD and that's how the desktop looked after the first boot. I certainly didn't make any changes to it.
41 • @40 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-09 06:50:17 GMT from )
Interesting, I'll have to check that out. I know it's not supposed to look like that, though. The wallpaper for 2009 is done and doesn't look like that (I got it on my desktop a few days ago) and I think the panel's supposed to be grey. Did you keep /home from an older 2009 install or anything?
42 • No subject (by capricornus on 2008-09-09 09:26:26 GMT from Netherlands)
After testing Chrome (V8), I did the same with FF3.1 Minefield beta (TraceMonkey). Both render (scripts) at blazing speed. The first day, only NoScript was ready for 3.1. The day after, AdBlock joined the (tiny) crowd. CustomizeGoogle will complete my set of preferred extensions: all the good reasons for choosing FF.
43 • THANKS!! (by And_I_Say_Once_Again on 2008-09-09 10:56:02 GMT from Australia)
I would like to THANK everyone for the clean, unbiased and productive commentary this week as compared to last week which, when I complained, resulted in my IP address being blacklisted from commenting by the powers that be... although there are many ways around that ;-)
44 • Re: Foobuntu (by Alan UK on 2008-09-09 11:17:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
So Foobuntu is dead? Is this why the London Stock Exchange computer system crashed yesterday? I think we should be told...
45 • Ref#37 Sabayon ext4 (by Verndog on 2008-09-09 14:32:44 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the info on ext4. Have you noticed any speed difference. I can never get Sabayon to install correctly on my system.
46 • buntu,buntu,buntu (by whocares on 2008-09-09 15:43:35 GMT from Finland)
Hey all Im making many many many distros the first one will be....(you must be excited about it ;).....................Abuntu then Bbuntu,Cbuntu,Dbuntu,Ebuntu,Fubuntu,Gubuntu,Hubuntu,Iubuntu,Jubuntu,K..oops that one is allready,Lubuntu,M this one also?, Nubuntu, Obuntu and sooooooooo ooooooooooooonnnn....
Linux is linux is linux and not GNU/whatever
47 • Re: 46 (by Anonymous on 2008-09-09 16:38:41 GMT from Finland)
> Linux is linux is linux and not GNU/whatever
Linux is a POSIX-compatible kernel for a Unix-like operating system. That operating system is called the GNU system, but you can also call the OS "GNU/Linux" (or "GNU+Linux") if you want to stress that the Linux kernel was not made by the GNU project. But it's simpler to just call the OS "GNU".
48 • RE #44 (by Distronator on 2008-09-09 16:49:37 GMT from Germany)
Unfortunatly not. If they'd used Foobuntu they would have had other, probably more gravem problems.
Anyway, I've been told by someone who knows the painter, who painted the office space in the exchange last year, that the system crashed due to an unfortunate coincidence. One of the cleaning persons plugged in their new Hoover 4000 vacuum cleaner/mobile phone hybrid (running on ApplianceBuntu with Arnold/Cyborg/Cogring stack, btw) while the nightshift guard made a coffee on the staff coffeemaker/photocopier (running some Java appliance on QNX). While the tools tried to figure out how to communicate via Bluetooth (as it turns out they can't) they disrupted a nearby MS Windows XP box (running MSbuntu) which, of course, was listening on all ports. Disturbed the IDS of the box alerted the firefighters by IM who sent over a car to investigate. The nightshift guard was still distracted by its malfunctioning coffeemaker/photocopier when the firefighters arrived and kicked in the back door and, trying to switch on the lights, switched off the air conditioning (running on Bonsai, a long forgotten Slackware clone). The server room AC (running on some wanna-be proprietary Ubuntu clone) had to pick up the slack and turned quickly from Coolbuntu to Warmbuntu and finally reached its natural state, HotAirBuntu64, and shut down. From then on it only took a few hours for the servers to heat up and initiate emergency shutdowns (running on Sun hardware they knew how to do that without the help of an OS) and alert one of the sysadmins. The rapid response team arrived within a day and, after switching on the AC on their search for the light switch, restarted the servers. That's what happened, seriously, painters don't lie.
49 • @47: Please don't start the GNU/Linux debate again (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-09 17:24:07 GMT from Hong Kong)
I think "GNU" on its own is more commonly associated with the Hurd kernel.
I prefer just "Linux" for three reasons:
1) It's much simpler than GNU/Linux, particularly if you pronounce it "Guh-new" (and not to mention verbally indicating the slash).
2) It's more mainstream; a lot of people know what "Linux" is, but have never heard of the GNU Project.
3) The kernel is really the only consistent feature of Linux distributions. Think about it: The GNU-developed utilities can be replaced with i.e. BusyBox, and alternatives to the C library and compiler even -- while maybe not as powerful, or targeting the same niche -- are available.
Linguistically, I consider "Linux" the same as "band-aid," or "Q-tip," or "Xerox": Even though it's a proper noun referring to a specific product (the Linux kernel), it's also popularly used as a generic term to refer to Linux kernel-based distributions. You can call it what you will -- I really don't care -- but please let's avoid silly debates and get back to more important things, like planning in advance for the impending demise of Uubuuntuu (I've heard from the developer it will be outdated by next week's DWW).
50 • mandriva desktop (by fortware on 2008-09-09 19:27:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
I just downloaded and tried the mandriva rc1 kde4 and the desktop is different than that of the picture. It has grey taskbar as Adam noted.
51 • (" a good DWW, *as ever* ") (by WTH on 2008-09-09 20:00:40 GMT from Canada)
You mean like posts such as > 2- 36 - 44 - 46 - 48
Are those gibberish examples of -
how you want DWW to be known ???
52 • @#51 & #48 (by Eyes-Only on 2008-09-09 21:14:21 GMT from United States)
@ #51: Gee whiz... I dunno, but I find that a little jocularity and levity NEVER hurt anybody. And being in my "particular situation" even a good laugh now and then has gone far in making an otherwise very painful day in this chair of mine a little bit easier to handle. ;) Do we always have to take each week so seriously? In 100 years will anyone look back and even care?
Just a little food for thought. :)
@ #48: roflmao Distronator! You REALLY kill me with that sense of humour of yours mate! Do you write for a living? Perform in some nightclub? I'd love to know! Your humour is worth wheeling this chair of mine to a performance some night! Thanks for the laugh and for making my day a little brighter! (It was a rather dreary day at the doctor's...)
53 • re: Fubuntu joke (by isle-seat on 2008-09-09 23:28:47 GMT from Germany)
stop this lame fubuntu joke. its not funny .. enough already ..
54 • kde and Mono (by jack on 2008-09-10 01:24:08 GMT from Canada)
there are 5 or 6 pages on this at the mandriva forum:
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:20 am Post subject:
I recently returned back to Mandriva KDE from Opensuse KDE...and if Mono's gonna be a dependency alongwith Beagle and Kerry, I wouldn't touch 2009 with a barge pole.
Its enough that KDE3 is relegated to a second class citizen...but lumping Mono-Beagle-Kerry is a tad too much.
There is a big thread currently on in Opensuse about the future of KDE3 and the way forward for 11.1. I agree that they have a lot more resources compared to Mandriva to undertake this task. But what I like is the fact that they're willing to listen to the community about this conundrum. I do hope that Mandriva tries to address this issue for KDE users.
Has anyone any information about the use of Mono with Kubuntu 8.04.1 or Kubuntu Ibex?
55 • The new Pardus. And Chrome. (by Chris on 2008-09-10 03:25:21 GMT from United States)
No Pardus comments.
I always start a new thread in the DistroWatch comments.
Oh, lonely me.
I wish that I could say
that the new Pardus install program is not so fussy,
but I can't.
An exception was thrown -install failed-
when I clicked 'Begin Install'
from the install summary screen.
Something about my swap partition.
I tried several variations of the swap partition,
but no luck.
I would guess that the reason for the fussiness
is that Pardus is the product of a technical school.
Maybe it's this computer, a Dell Inspiron.
I did get a successful install on a Dell Dimension.
I upgraded my existing Pardus 2008 to 2008.1 rc
by changing the Pardus repository from '2008' to '2008.1'
in the graphical package manager.
I prefer to use the command line for Pardus upgrades.
# pisi upgrade
I'll get my two cents in on the Google Chrome:
I use it because I like it's looks.
I boot to Windows just so that I can use Chrome.
There was a harmless Chrome exception
after the completion of my Pardus download.
And there was one spectacular crash.
It took me half an hour to get the computer
56 • Re: 52 (by I_Agree on 2008-09-10 03:56:18 GMT from Australia)
I agree Eyes-Only... I've laughed a few times at Distronator's fake distro comments too!! All in fun, and not malicious in any way... We all need to lighten up a little and laugh :-) A laugh a day helps keep the doctor away!!
57 • Mon deux Mes amis (by Anonymous on 2008-09-10 04:53:08 GMT from Canada)
En bloc le enfants, a propos de est agent provocateur :
Faux soi-disant, (voi-au-vent_ ala) pas de deux sans au fait raison d'etre folie a deux
58 • Ubuntu-A B C D E (by monty on 2008-09-10 07:17:19 GMT from Australia)
I am a K/Ubuntu user , but I have to agree all the offshoots of Ubuntu is annoying.
Sure anyone can remaster a cd and call it there own...but all they are doing is making a mockery of the real project at hand , why not work with the devs and help the real projects.
59 • Chrome (by Distant on 2008-09-10 09:23:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anyone else noticed that this Google chrome whatyoumaycallit has been out for all of 4.5 seconds, and already there’s people writing in about how they use it as default/boot to windows to use it/have it on all 47 of their machines like they’ve been using it since 1992? How odd.
Personally, their increasing stranglehold on things is ringing a fair few alarm bells for me.
Still, looking forward to Goobuntu.
60 • Re #59 (by Hmm! on 2008-09-10 13:37:54 GMT from Australia)
#59 What alarm bells are ringing re Google Chrome? Please explain.
Yes it has only been out 4.5 seconds to use your time analagy, so what. It is something new. People want to try it. Yes it is only running successfully on Windows at the moment. So what. As noted above in #38 it can be run in a Windows VM from a linux host. So what. Have you tried it? If not why comment about it negativily. If you have tried it what is your feedback?
People sometimes get excited about new things and want to try them. So what. Your post as written is inane so please address these questions so as to give some insight into what you are trying to say.
61 • No subject (by Distant on 2008-09-10 14:23:53 GMT from United Kingdom)
To the Australian reader @ 60:
Re-read my post, and try to get the point before jumping up and down at me, so-whatting (inane – pot calling the kettle black there mate), and saying I’ve raised issues I haven’t (like it only running on Windows). I’m asking why people are writing about Chrome like they’ve been lifetime users, not suggesting it’s strange that people are testing it.
I raised it because I think it is odd – when people usually talk about testing a product, they say “I’m testing the new Debian” or “I’ve been playing with this Amarok release”. But with Chrome, people aren’t saying those ‘trying it out’ type words, they’re saying they use it as default and talking about it not like it’s a trial, but like it’s a permanent thing. What does that mean? I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, I’m not saying I know the answer, I’m saying it is a way of talking about something we usually don’t see. I’d like to know if anyone has a theory on that.
My apologies for trying to express myself in a funny way. You don’t have to jump down my throat for it, merely asking for clarification or ignoring it are quite acceptable responses, and, indeed, often credited with demonstrating one’s maturity.
You did ask about my alarm bells, so I’ll elaborate. Google are increasingly getting a stranglehold on t’internet and moving on from there. It worries me because I don’t think monoliths are ever good things. There was a point where Microsoft were the exciting young player too.
62 • RE to whom it may concern (by Distronator on 2008-09-10 15:56:35 GMT from Germany)
Hey buddies, thanks for the support.
NO-section: No, I'm not a professional comedian. No, I don't write for aliving (I write, though, mainly mad, foaming letters to my energy provider). No, I don't know where the next kindergarden is and never was a member of the ALA, but I occasionally endorse reading books (sorry, my French is really bad).
YES-section: Yes, I found Fubuntu totally stupid, too. So I started Foobuntu last week -- two "o"s more... much better. I quickly hit a major road block ("o"s and "u"s just don't mesh) and had to re-engineer the distribution. While being at it, I switched to the Ultrix WM and renamed by distribution UUbuuntuu to honor this marvelous feat of engineering. Unfortunatly that got me into trouble with my significant other -- she spent the better half of today grabbing her not very impressive breasts, screaming "chauvi chauvi" (the German cutesy variant of chauvinist). Maybe you get the chauvinist insult. I don't.
Anyway, Martin Ultima already spilled the beans, so YES, UUbuuntuu is probably dead or will become my vanity project. Instead I will focus on a new joint operation with Martin, an Ubuntu clone with Slackware package management. We are still looking for a new name after Martin rudely rejected my suggestion of "Slubware" and I, much less rudely, of course, rejected his suggestion "Superfriends X". Speaking of which, Martin, was the name perhaps for our boy group project? If so, that changes everything. I still can't sing, though.
63 • Re: 22 • By the way... (by Ariszló on 2008-09-10 17:44:44 GMT from Hungary)
"By the way, is that '23oz.' in the SuSE shot? That was one of my favorite themes back when I used DR16."
Yes, it is. 23oz is one of the several E17 themes maintained by sda: http://sda.scwlab.com/
64 • @62 (by Martin Ultima on 2008-09-10 18:36:09 GMT from Germany)
> We are still looking for a new name after Martin rudely rejected my suggestion of "Slubware" and I, much less rudely, of course, rejected his suggestion "Superfriends X". Speaking of which, Martin, was the name perhaps for our boy group project? If so, that changes everything. I still can't sing, though.
You weren't supposed to mention that until AFTER the promotional T's were in!
Argh, now how are we supposed to get rich off the merchandising??
Anyway, since you can't sing, and I can't play guitar, let's hope we get that sound-editing stuff working before this project goes under from mismarketing.
65 • @54 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-10 19:10:52 GMT from Canada)
Good grief, can you please stop spreading this crap? I'm having a hard enough time following it in three forum threads and two bug reports, I really don't need it here too.
For the tenth time in the last two days, nothing vital in KDE depends on Mono. task-kde3 depends on Kerry. Kerry depends on Mono. If you don't want Mono, do 'urpme mono'. It will take with it everything which depends on Mono. The task-kde3 package will be removed as well, but that's fine, because it's a metapackage. It doesn't contain anything important. KDE will continue to work perfectly well.
KDE DOES NOT DEPEND ON MONO. Thank you. That is all.
66 • #65 (by jack on 2008-09-10 19:30:36 GMT from Canada)
Please post your exact wording on the Mandriva forum
I read all 6 pages there and was left confused
You might add some words WRT KDE 4.0 and/or 4.1
67 • @ 62 ALA ??? (by Anonymous on 2008-09-10 23:54:43 GMT from Canada)
A la "Germain" Franco-Anglais
(never was a member of the ALA, but I occasionally endorse reading books )
But do you read a la
~ More the pity you are not a American Library Assoc. member
C'etai a lui d'y vellier (rouge visu) to translate
OTOH, It could've been termed outre-monde > in-step dancing to your very own lala
68 • Religious and politically themed distros (by Duhnonymous on 2008-09-11 01:10:26 GMT from United States)
Could we do without the controversial distros? I think it would suffice to just do away with religious and politically themed distros. It's great that we have the religious and politcal apps, but I don't really see why you need a whole distro. I mean, it's the same kernel, the same set of tools at the CLI level. The same set of drivers. The same desktop environments.
Just tossing that out there. Thanks.
69 • RE: 68 Religious and politically themed distros (by ladislav on 2008-09-11 01:16:18 GMT from Taiwan)
What's wrong with having them? Nowadays even churches and mosques use computers, so instead of running some old, crappy version of Windows on them, why not install a Linux distro that comes with a handful of religious apps and other little conveniences? I see nothing wrong with that.
70 • RE: 68, 69 (by Some pesky distro maintainer on 2008-09-11 01:59:04 GMT from Germany)
The convenience factor does make sense, but I agree with the point about the need for an entire distribution. There's a large amount of duplicated code (and efforts) involved in creating yet another distribution, and you do have the whole balance of supply versus demand. And yes, I know I'm one to talk...
I think of software the same way I think of government, in the sense that it's something that should fulfill its intended purpose for everyone, regardless of their personal beliefs. Obviously, government doesn't always work that way -- my government in the U.S. certainly isn't a non-partisan, secular institution to protect its people's rights and liberties -- and neither does software (at this point the analogy kind of falls apart), but that's how it should be in an ideal world.
With that in mind, I guess I should get my bias out of the way: I'm an atheist, I hate just about all American political groups, and I'm the developer of another distribution, albeit one with a slightly different target audience. So take my view with an appropriately-sized grain of salt. (And anyone else's too, of course -- I'm sure Ladislav wouldn't mind people developing more distributions ;-)
71 • @66 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-11 05:21:17 GMT from Canada)
We have metapackages for making it easy to install KDE in Mandriva. task-kde3 for KDE 3. task-kde4-minimal and task-kde4 for KDE 4.
You *do not need these packages installed*. They're just for convenience. All they are, essentially, is lists of dependencies.
Neither task-kde4 nor task-kde4-minimal introduce any dependency on Mono. task-kde4 'depends' (due to a packaging error) on openoffice.org-core. This will be resolved in the next release of openoffice.org. However, openoffice.org-core does not depend on Mono, there's no Mono dependency there.
task-kde3 depends (indirectly, I haven't figured out the exact chain yet...) on Kerry, which requires Beagle, which requires Mono. This is unlikely to be changed. However, you can perfectly well install task-kde3 and then do 'urpme mono'. It will remove kerry, beagle, and the task-kde3 package, but KDE 3 will still work fine. Removing task-kde3 does not stop KDE 3 working.
In other matters, Evolution and openoffice.org-common (not openoffice.org-core) depend on mono essentially due to poor upstream coding - Evolution and go-oo are both coded so that if you enable their Mono support, you can't avoid having a Mono dependency in the core package, whereas it would be best if the code allowed the dependency to be restricted to the Mono subpackage (evolution-mono and openoffice.org-mono ).
I have a bug report open upstream on the Evolution case. I also have a bug report filed on the OO.o case, but we will likely drop the Mono support in our OO.o package if it is not resolved soon. Evo is more of a borderline case.
Hope all of this makes sense, I'm in a restaurant and have had about a dozen cups of sake so far...
72 • @ 35 and @ 61 (by Linux Enthusiast on 2008-09-11 10:32:43 GMT from India)
@ 35 No problem. I got the torrents for Mandriva Linux 2009 RC1 from here - http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrents&search=&category=42&active=1
@ 61 "Google are increasingly getting a stranglehold on t’internet and moving on from there. It worries me because I don’t think monoliths are ever good things."
I agree with you about the problems of monoliths. But we don't need to worry since we already have alternatives in search engines.
1. Cuil - www.cuil.com - is a search engine that organizes web pages by content and displays relatively long entries along with thumbnail pictures for many results. It claims to have a larger index than any other search engine, with about 120 billion web pages. Cuil is managed and developed largely by former employees of Google: Anna Patterson, Russell Power and Louis Monier.
2. Wikia Search - www.search.wikia.com - is a free and open-source Web search engine and a part of Wikia (originally Wikicities) operated by Wikia, Inc., a for-profit company founded in late 2004 by Jimmy Wales and Angela Beesley.
73 • @ 72 google (by john frey on 2008-09-11 14:40:52 GMT from Canada)
I'm afraid that alternatives to a monolith are not enough in themselves. That's like saying don't worry about anything MS does, there's Mac and Linux as alternatives. As we have seen MS use their dominant position to force MS products on users and strangle the supply of alternatives. They even own a large interest in Apple, so that corporation is highly subject to influence from MS.
I don't know at what point a monolithic provider becomes evil but "do no evil" has not been the slogan for Google for quite some time now. So we know that is no longer their primary intent. So far I believe Google is not evil but I don't expect that to remain true, unfortunately.
on another note, HOW DO YOU FEEL THIS MORNING ADAM? IS YOUR HEAD FEELING OK OR DID YOU HAVE TOO MUCH SAKE LAST NIGHT? YOU DON'T MIND IF I SHOUT, DO YOU? :):)
74 • @73 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-09-11 14:59:50 GMT from Canada)
75 • Gentoo Backsliding Again (by Anonymous on 2008-09-11 15:19:33 GMT from United States)
Just noticed they canceled their 2008.1 release, oops and forgot to inform distrowatch. How convenient..
Their weekly newsletter come monthly periodical has been set on a 5 week rotation for the last six months.
So let me see now at this rate the 2009.0 will be in December 2009 so heck why bother with a 2010.x anything?
76 • #71 (by jack on 2008-09-11 16:09:02 GMT from Canada)
Please post to the mandriva forum as there is at lest one other person there who remains confused
Please don't think I am being argumentative, I genuinely no longer understand what is the state of play with Mono in KDE3 and 4 and with relation to RC1 and later versions!
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:07 am
77 • Mono (by Anonymous on 2008-09-12 00:47:40 GMT from United States)
Why is .net and C# being pushed on us with mono?
78 • religious flavour (by forest on 2008-09-12 13:09:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref #68 and #69...slightly tongue in cheek here...if the Good Lord and the Prophet see fit to spread the word of LINUX via some belief systems who are we to say no...after all they are supposed to work in (cue theme from X Files...) "mysterious ways..."
Mind you, they probably have not yet cottoned on that their "belief system" is another person's "delivery system"...what is known in the theological trade as "prosthetylising".
79 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-12 14:35:42 GMT from United States)
Just went back to a Fedora 9 install that I had left idle for a long time. No reason to use it, but it hadn't yet been deleted. It was a piece of junk when I gave up on it. I said I'd never waste time on Fedora again.
Well, this time there were no dependency problems on my update (no idea what went wrong, but there was a screwup somewhere before). I was able to fully update the system without problems. It seems many of the bugs are now fixed. I may actually use it once in a while.
I tried out KDE 4.1. Not quite there yet, but much improved. In six months I think most users will probably be in a position that they can ditch KDE 3.x. Not that this makes up for their questionable naming choices, or their attempt to turn us into guinea pigs, but it's all coming together nicely.
If you haven't tried Fedora 9, now might be a good time to do so. Too bad it will only be supported for nine more months.
80 • @78 (by Say what ? on 2008-09-12 15:47:26 GMT from Canada)
> ("in the theological trade as "prosthetylising")
Talking in mixed metaphors - An artificial foot in mouth ? .
81 • "the word was the word" (by forest on 2008-09-12 17:38:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
yes it was was foot in mouth...LOL!
82 • Proselytizing ? (by OTO foot on 2008-09-12 18:31:59 GMT from Canada)
(# 81 ~ Tha's OK you merely pointed out, spreading the good word often leads to misplaced mores )
Such as @ # 75
What was the word you wished to "spread" ?
Please consider "convenience" for sum .... may be
avoiding the light
After the mess/deserved flack Re the earlier LiveCD Gentoo GUI installer
(Which was BTW primarily a one-person effort)
advanced coders unanimously recommended *stage3*
You ignore that once any sources based is installed - releases are redundant
Conversely, (Pre-supplied) binary-based distros bundle "new-releases"
as a convenience for their user-base
(full system upgrades are discouraged)
Hint - google "is Gentoo a meta distribution"
Periodicals are very time consuming - if concerned, volunteers are welcomed
Are you aware D. Robbins still contributes ?
83 • Mint-fluxbox variant (RC 1) (by digger on 2008-09-13 17:31:58 GMT from United States)
Whatever became of Fluxbuntu? I think that something like this may have been what they were aiming at. BTW, I'm not knocking Fluxbuntu (I tried it for a while & rather liked it), and don't like snarky remarks or distro-bashing.
84 • Mint-fluxbox variant (by anticapitalista on 2008-09-13 19:29:37 GMT from Greece)
I have been playing with Mint-fluxbox today and although it is pretty, quite fast once installed (with 256MB RAM) and has some nice tools, I was not too impressed overall.
It seems to me that it is really aimed at (ex) xfce users who are disappointed with the recent bloat of xfce (relative to its past) rather than the users that fluxbuntu aimed for. To me Mint-fluxbox is Mint, but using fluxbox rather that gnome. Nothing wrong with that of course, but not how I see a fluxbox-based distro should be.
Fluxbuntu offered so much, but delivered very little. It must have been the most hyped distro that never got released! Shame as it did have a lot of potential as a fluxbox distro using Ubuntu rather than a Ubuntu distro with fluxbox tagged on.
My own distro, antiX, I like to see, and I hope those who have tried it agree, as a fluxbox/icewm distro built using Debian Testing repos (99%) and Mepis tools and kernel.
85 • RE: 82 (by Landor on 2008-09-13 21:42:39 GMT from Canada)
The man is a troll, and he's schtickin' it really good :)
I found the post about the 5 week newsletter humourous indeed. You look at the fact that it's a "monthly" and posted "monthly" and the fact that some months have more weeks in them than others (based on starting and ending of course) and you can only conclude the man is a troll and grasping at straws...Quite sad indeed.
The other part is just as amusing...Since the 2008 release came out in July, it would be mroe than absurd for someone to expect a 2008.1 release in Sept...lmao These dudes in here make me laugh..
Instead of calling that post Gentoo Backsliding Again, it should have read...My Backwash Again....
Keep your stick on the ice... (or an ice flow as we truly enter the effects of global warming)
86 • re#antiX @84 (by anyone on 2008-09-13 23:31:29 GMT from Australia)
anticapitalista, your post #84 is in bad taste. You are slagging off Mint-fluxbox with some comments (although not 100%) then self promote your own distro as one much better. You may be a good coder or copy & paster but your ego is bigger. It seems that no matter where on the web in forums including this forum you self promote antiX.
Now that is in itself not a bad thing, but to put other similar distro's down is not.
Antix is not a bad distro as are most are distro's. But IMHO it is not a great one. Let's face it, at the end of the day you took someone else's work, put on a new face, changed a few things and added some more. Just like a lot of other distro's around have done. OK that is not a bad thing and quiet OK. Full marks for you for doing that and having a user base to support your hobby. BUT I do not see where others who have done the same as you go around on forums and put other similar distro's to theirs down. Shame on you.
87 • Ref#82 Not aware (by Verndog on 2008-09-14 04:58:30 GMT from United States)
"Are you aware D. Robbins still contributes ?"
No I was NOT aware of his current contributions. Thanks for the heads up.
I have never installed(built) a Gentoo distro, but if their docs are any indication, that must be a hell of a distro!
88 • @ # 87 (by A word of caution on 2008-09-14 06:14:04 GMT from Canada)
It is ( IMO sources-based variants are the most flexible)
BUT - (always a but) they are ill-suited for casual desktop users
Not so much that they are too complex - more an admittance_ binary-based eases
the " too much at once" factor - which often overwhelms unprepared newer users
Tip - Sabayon may aleviate initial time/"strangeness" factor
Actually runnning any distro in live mode (most now allow this)
~ is highly recommend unil *you* are satisfied it "fits"
If willing to spend the effort Req'd -= It is wise to first read all you can stomache (ease into it first)
Please do not rush to commit to an install
Good part - Gentoo indisputably has the best documentation of any -
Their forum has *many* advanced coders (quirky power users )
that are always happy to assist
Cautioary note - *IF* the user states they are *dead-ended *, explains clearly what has been tried (first)
Prior to requesting assistance
Lastly, sources-based (Sabayon Can be an excepetion/Esp if entropy is used) are bare-bones installs - w/few GUI wizardy aids
~ In that respect, they are for users desiring utmost personal control
to whatever exetnt wishes
That control comes at a personal cost > In end, only Ea user may decide
Which bring an end to this (soory, bet you thought I'd never stop)
Best of success
89 • Re #86 Bad taste (by anticapitalista on 2008-09-14 10:23:41 GMT from Greece)
I don't think my post was in bad taste in any way, shape or form.
I did not bash Mint-fluxbox at all, nor fluxbuntu.
My point was that the philosophy behind fluxbuntu and Mint-fluxbox were not the same. ie the former had fluxbox at the centre the latter seems to have it as an alternative to the major desktop environments for Mint fans.
If you think that is putting down a distro, then you have a very broad definition of putting down. ie criticism=bashing
90 • 89 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-09-15 00:04:27 GMT from United States)
I saw nothing in your post that was bashing. You promoted your distro but big deal.
I agree that Fluxbuntu was a good idea, and what was released was decent, yet clearly not finished. AntiX IMHO pretty much eliminates the market for Fluxbuntu. Just wish that it would run on pre-i686 machines. Pure Debian is good on those machines, but you have to do a minimal install and then configure Fluxbox/XFCE/whatever, which takes quite a chunk of time, and may not be easy for Windows converts. I view AntiX and other lightweight distros as a key to the conversion of the masses to Linux.
91 • Foresight Mobile 1.0 not very mobile under VMware - Mini Review (by LinuxFool on 2008-09-15 02:08:47 GMT from United States)
I had hopes this might be a good distro to try on my Fujitsu Stylistic C500 (8-inch tablet, Celeron 500 mobile, 256 MB, 8GB Ultra 3 CF-on-IDE adapter or 20 GB HDD - "precursor Netbook"), but it crawls/bombs/obliviates on VMware Workstation 5.5.5 on Ubuntu 7.10 desktop with AMD 1333 Mhz, 1.5GB, 160 GB 7200 RPM HDD.
I wanted to set this up in 4GB of virtual disk to transfer to the 8GB CF card, and thus did not want swap - it did not like that, and that is not a good sign for a Netbook with SSD. I got a "kernel failure" alert message that indicated some unhappiness about swap (duh - not there).
Nautilus crashed, and the message said somthing about the bonobo server being hung - NAUTILUS? On a low-powered, small-screen Netbook?? No wonder, top showed 100+ processes, and over 200MB of my 256 v-ram in use (the cached showed almost 100MB, so maybe that comes out of the 200? Not sure how Linux manages memory and how accurately top reports it, although the "free" command showed matching numbers).
By way of contrast xubuntu 18.104.22.168 behaves with a lot more snap on my even slower notebook with 1.2 Ghz Pentium M and 1GB of ram in a VirtualBox vm with 256MB of RAM, and runs decently on the real Stylistic from the CF card. Maybe VMware workstation on the AMD and no VMware tools installed is much inferior in performance by comparison, but I rather doubt the disparity in how it "feels" is solely due the virtual platforms involved.
The desktop had a nice layout for 800x600 ... except the icon title fonts were practically unreadably small. I think Asus' EEE original Easy Menus work better for limited screen size in not trying to cram quite so many icons and small text into a single workspace.
All in all this seems very much like just a revamped desktop layered on top of the same old Gnome load of everything a Linux distro can comforatably(?) cram onto a more powerful machine.
How about starting with something like a Puppy or DSL-scale Debian base, and add (sparingly!) one of each lightweight Gnome app? Or how about XFCE apps? Are they not "lighter"?
I would like to re-visit in about 6 months, and see if 2.x has gotten any trimmer.
Good luck, Foresght team, with focusing on the essentials.
92 • Titan LEV (by Ismail Arslangiray on 2008-09-15 04:09:07 GMT from United States)
This Distrowatch candidate is a serious joke. It is just an Ubuntu and they put a front end to it. Most of the applications are just simple stuff. I worked with most of the distros to test them but this one was too much!..
93 • UbuntuEEE (by Ismail Arslangiray on 2008-09-15 04:11:38 GMT from United States)
I have tried several distros on my Asus 4G. (including Foresight Mobile 1.0). So far UbuntuEEE is far superior than any other.
94 • Pardus 2008 (by capricornus on 2008-09-15 06:07:38 GMT from Netherlands)
@55 and all distro hoppers. Yesterday I tried Pardus. No live CD, but installing straightaway. Splitting the HD took a surprising long time, OK. Installing took an unpleasant long time. Then no GRUB active. So I lost the freshly installed Mint 5 XFCE. Ahhh, no!
SO Pardus went faster than it installed, and in 20 min I was up and surfing with Mint/FF3 again.
My family members had a good laugh: in their eyes I must be an extreme-nerd or had too much to drink - or both - to install some Turkish Shikrut. They know though that's not entirely true. But this experience is just too much of what we don't need in 2008.
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