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1 • OzOs, Mint & PC-BSD 7 (by Eric on 2008-08-11 08:46:35 GMT from Canada)
Well those OzOs & WorkBench Linux Looks pretty slick actually. Congrats to Mint for getting the donation and hope they can make good use of it.
That PC-BSD has been making lots of progress, even ZFS works as the root file system now, has a new USB installer, BUT i think the most important factor they will need to change, is the switch from using the 4BSD_SCHED to the ULE_SCHED(the new high performance BSD CPU scheduler. If it can get that... with 3.X packages (PBI's) in their pbidir, I think this will be able to kick ALOT of ass in all fields.... Even though i will indeed stay far away from KDE4.X until they start profiling very crucial desktop function code that currently creates _FAR_ too much latency, instead of trying to perfect a never-ending bug-hunt.
Enjoy the Monday
2 • Thank you! (by exploder on 2008-08-11 09:17:57 GMT from United States)
I would like to express my appreciation to Distrowatch, LinuxCD.org and OSDisc.com for their generous donation! Distrowatch is a great site and they have written some very nice reviews about LinuxMint, they have done a lot to help us out.What an awesome surprise!
Thank you!
3 • Linspire/Freespire (by Anonymous Penguin on 2008-08-11 09:29:25 GMT from Italy)
Tom House, Freespire community organizer, stated, 'This is really some of the most exciting news since the announcement of Freespire 1.0. This is what we were hoping to see: both the continued development of Freespire, and a return to a Debian base.'
This is what I expected to hear and I share the same feelings.
4 • openSUSE (by Anonymous on 2008-08-11 09:40:22 GMT from Belgium)
> left many users with the sole option of installing KDE 4.0 first, then get the KDE 3.5 desktop packages over the Internet later
That is misleading, over 70% of openSUSE users use the DVD for installation which offers both KDE versions (same for network installations).
5 • Mint FTW (by Jimbo on 2008-08-11 09:43:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mint is the best gnome distro out there, it's good to see it getting some support.
6 • Linux Mint (by rusmanik on 2008-08-11 10:18:53 GMT from Indonesia)
Yeah . . . Linux Mint is good for me. Just work!
7 • Errors in the articles (by ladislav on 2008-08-11 11:02:30 GMT from Taiwan)
Please guys, if you want to point out a factual or grammatical error in the articles, please email me directly, so that I can correct it. Don't waste everybody's time by posting a message that is obviously meant for me only.
8 • Com 7 : the number of islands is a nightmare, too (by dbrion on 2008-08-11 11:04:47 GMT from France)
in French Polynesia : for wikipedia, it is about 120 (where one can live), but some will be added; for a sailor or a man having maps, it is much more, as many islands are low and tiny (none could surve a storm).
As for the internet, it is about 10(-100 ?)times slower than in Europe : downloading a alpha PCBSD could take more than 84 hours, (and there is a weekly release)... This might explain the success of GNU/Linux magazines, if they are sold with CD/DVDs
9 • Linux Mint (by NK on 2008-08-11 11:11:14 GMT from United States)
I hope that you gave the money to Linux Mint in order o fix the horrible mystery "hard freeze" problem it has in Elyssa, I mean, even with Microsoft at least we got a blue screen with hex numbers so we could at least get an *idea* what's going wrong.
10 • No subject (by chuck on 2008-08-11 12:15:48 GMT from United States)
first mepsis, now freespire, seems the shine of ubuntu has worn off (or is it to hard to live in its shadow?).
11 • Linspire Schadenfreude (by just john on 2008-08-11 12:21:43 GMT from United States)
As one who enjoyed the original mp3.com's community before Michael Robertson went insane, my toes curl in pleasure as I read of his further troubles. May they follow him to the end of his days.
12 • RE: 9, What Problem? (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-08-11 13:04:20 GMT from United States)
Its always best to go to the support forums of the distro you use to report problems and to get some help instead of Distrowatch. Have you tried to search for the problem? Since you are having the same problem with MS Windows it could be your hardware?
13 • xandros/freespire (by riklaunim on 2008-08-11 13:32:55 GMT from Poland)
I wrote a Xandros review some time ago, and I can say that such commercial/enterprise-whatever distributions for technical users are piece of crap, as they are "windowsed" in terms of how it's used, what applications are there and how they can be used (Xandros has a file manager like windows explorer, which compared to konqueror is useless mini app), also problems with i18n, extra packages (and support for them... if you pay for the system) and so on.
If Freespire/Linspire had good ideas it would make more news here, and not only release announcements. I may look nice, but nice theme isn't enough. You need clear and open ways of distribution development and interaction with the community.
Some time ago I got a Linspire LiveCD from a newspaper and it booted longer and used more real RAM than Mepis at that time which even started apache on liveCD session ;) It had nice theme, few apps with changed UI design, and thats it. No Polish language support, paid access to packages, very high resources usage and no technical documentation... (every nice config GUI will break at some point and you will have to do it from the command line...)
14 • boring distributions (by markus on 2008-08-11 13:39:07 GMT from Austria)
Is it only me or are these distributions becoming more and more boring?
They seem rather similar to each other. Distributions like NixOS or Gobolinux are rare compared to the enormous masses of other distributions.
And I think most distributions are boring.
15 • re 14 - boring distributions (by corneliu on 2008-08-11 14:17:39 GMT from Canada)
You are right. All those useless distributions are a waste of time for those who created them and for those who tried them. I stopped trying all these distributions long time ago. I settled for one distribution and never changed it since. If I want to spice up my Linux life I use the development branch and help testing it. You should probably do the same.
16 • boring distros? (by fstephens on 2008-08-11 14:29:34 GMT from United States)
Maybe you're right. I seem to have less interest in distro hopping than I used to.
But, maybe it's time to try Mint again, and I hear Mandriva is better than it used to be...
Anyway there are other interesting things to keep up on:
http://linuxlatitude.blogspot.com/2008/08/sunday-reading.html
17 • Debian "Lenny" (by Darkman on 2008-08-11 14:43:25 GMT from United States)
I commend the Debian developers for their exceptional work on Lenny. Thank you.
18 • RE: 14,15,16, Borning Distrubutions (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-08-11 15:05:25 GMT from United States)
While it is true that a lot if not most distros are similar I don't really see much of a different way they could go. I also have less interest is distro hopping but then again it seems that I've seen it all, or most of it anyway. Now developers are opting for stability and I do think that is what most people are wanting. Thats why the big thing now is a distro "working well out of the box". I have my wife set up with a Ubuntu install on her own partition. It works very well for her with no problems and thats the way she wants it. Myself I have what I call a test partition that I use so I can have fun with different distros But really you can get a lot more done if you just stick to one distro that works well for you and one that you like.
Anyway I do believe that is what a lot of users want.
19 • Perhaps the era of distro-hopping is over (by Airdrik on 2008-08-11 16:15:23 GMT from United States)
It makes you wonder if the era of distro-hopping is over. The way I see it, there are two reasons why people switch distros:
* They are dissatisfied with their current distro -- doesn't fully support hardware, stability/robustness, software availability, etc.
* They see enhancements in other distro(s) which they believe will be better enough for them that they are willing to make the switch.
I expect that what has happened is that the distributions have reached a state in which people are satisfied with their current distribution(s) and don't see any compelling reasons to switch to new distributions.
I have been running PCLOS on my laptops since their 2007 release, and I have been overall pleased at the distro (except that they are a bit more conservative about new software than I would like). My wife's computer runs Kubuntu 8.04. The only changes I foresee include installing and toying with Gentoo on an extra partition on my laptop, and perhaps switching to Mandriva 2009 after it comes out (depending on the state of kde 4 for PCLOS at the time, currently only 4.0).
The things that I am more excited to follow are the progress of kde 4 and enlightenment, both of which show major promise as they stabilize. I see kde 4 as being in a transitive phase as the new version picks up traction and certain key apps (amarok, koffice, kpim) finalize their kde 4 versions. I see e17 as a (mostly) stable usable desktop in a state of flux until the developers get it to a state where they can say it is releasable. I have been using e17 on my computers for several years and have had little to be displeased about, and am glad to see distributions like elive (closing in on another stable release) and OzOs focusing on enlightenment, as well as Mandriva including and supporting a packaged version.
20 • Less Distro Hopping (by Sergio on 2008-08-11 16:16:24 GMT from Mexico)
Compared to 2 years ago, I think right now most distros are mostly the same. But then again it could be just something personal, since 2 years ago I was just discovering all linux landscape, and right now I think I have settled with my favorites. So to me personally, distros are more mature but less exciting.
21 • Mint (by Peter Vasvari on 2008-08-11 16:32:42 GMT from Hungary)
Mint is a great distro, indeed. Keeping in mind, most of the users are beginners. I agree with this, its a great idea/aim like in the case of Ubuntu. The only thing what I don't like about the whole distro, there is no amd64 / x86-64 edition. This is the only drawback. I hope they'll fix this soon and start to release an amd64 edition too.
Anyway, thanks for the Weekly, and the usual pack of useful informations. Keep up the great work. :)
22 • Qu 14 Are supermarkets exciting? (by dbrion on 2008-08-11 16:41:28 GMT from France)
And GNUlinux distros are much like supermarkets, as the main part of the work is done upstream (they verify most of the parts are compatible/non-toxic, and put it into bags).
But I would be surprised if a supermarket sold shoes in four parts (each shoe being cut into 2 pieces, and the parts being sold separately) while distro currently make 3 or more packages out of an application (the executable, the devel and the doc). For example, according to GNUlinux magazine, jul-aug 2008, p 20, UBU linux is shipped on a tiny form, and vim must be reinstalled; OTOH, if one downloads gvim.{exe,msi} , one gets a very nice vi for Windows and Vista, with a full tutorial, a full doc and syntax coloring, and it takes 4 icons on the M$ desktop... If applications are so ill-treated by distributors, it is not astonishing that Windows ports are preferred...
23 • @Airdrik (by Gnobuddy on 2008-08-11 17:05:45 GMT from United States)
Perhaps the era of distro-hopping is over
-----------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for a thoughtful and well written post.
I have been using Linux since 2000, and have always been dissatisfied with some aspect of every distro I've tried. So I tried a huge number of them over the years. Many were so riddled with problems that I could not understand why anyone would bother using them or creating them in the first place. Anyhow, I started with Mandrake in the early days and ended up with Gentoo for many years.
Gentoo has many aggravating problems, but for a long time, it was the only distro I could count on being able to fix if it broke. It also offered the fastest Linux experience of any full-blown distro by a wide margin.
Unfortunately, in the last year or two I find Gentoo getting increasingly outdated, complex and failure-prone, while Ubuntu and its derivatives have been getting better in almost every way. It may sound odd to call a source-based distro like Gentoo outdated - but how else do you describe a distro that does not provide any way to alert the user to security patches, or to download and install them?
So I've recently migrated to Kubuntu 8.04 on both my laptop and my desktop. The desktop, which used to run Gentoo, took a huge speed hit in the switch to Kubuntu - it's a dual-core Athlon 64 machine, but with Kubuntu on it it feels like my old Athlon XP 2200 box running Gentoo did.
I hate sluggish and unresponsive computers, but there are too many issues with Gentoo for me to want to turn back now. So Kubuntu will stay. At least I know when there are important security updates.
What would make me switch to another distro? It would have to combine the ease of install, large userbase and good support that Ubuntu/Kubuntu has, along with the speed of Gentoo. I know of no such distro, as of Aug 2008 at any rate.
-Gnobuddy
24 • KDE 4.1 (by Duhnonymous on 2008-08-11 17:09:41 GMT from United States)
In my experience KDE 4.1 had a few cosmetic glitches, but was otherwise a complete and finished product. I'd really like to know what "core functionality" Joseph Tate thinks is missing or buggy.
25 • re 23 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-11 17:29:59 GMT from Canada)
What would make me switch to another distro? It would have to combine the ease of install, large userbase and good support that Ubuntu/Kubuntu has, along with the speed of Gentoo. I know of no such distro, as of Aug 2008 at any rate.
Not that I want to prey on you, but I think Mandriva has all that and more. At least since Mandriva 2007.0 release.
All you need to do is a custom install to avoid Mono and other such bloat. if you are interested I can write a mini how-to.
26 • LinuxMint (by burnin8r on 2008-08-11 17:49:41 GMT from United States)
LinuxMint has pretty much curbed my distrohopping tendencies, thanks for rewarding an OS worth supporting.
27 • Distro hopping might be over...soon. (by Nobody important on 2008-08-11 18:05:33 GMT from United States)
The Linux party is shrinking. Yes, there are more distro's than ever, but the amount that are honestly worth using are shrinking extremely rapidly. I take a look at the top hundred or so of the Distrowatch rankings, and only ten of them I could say a wide majority of people actually use. There's Ubuntu, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, OpenSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo, and a few other little, smaller distro's (Absolute, etc.) that a few other people use. Other than that, not much.
The Linux party is also getting wiser. I feel that distro's like Arch are where the focus will be shifting, not to just one set Mac-like interface where we all have the exact same UI, but in an OS that we download the base for, install, and then grab all the programs we want from the places we go. It's more about choice, but less about the iso files and more about wise package managing.
There's a plus to updating and customizing the iso files, to be sure; for users without internet it's the only way to get new programs. But as bandwidth gets cheaper and the options start multiplying, it seems like less of a good idea to download, install, and configure every new distro that comes out. Instead, it looks to me as if we'll be playing with everything from within our own little chosen sandbox, be it Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSUSE, or whatever survives the next five years of Linux.
That is, if the Linux community finally realizes that the "new Linux user" doesn't exist.
28 • Re: #27 comments (by H Goertzen on 2008-08-11 18:57:29 GMT from Canada)
To Nobody important
It is too bad you think there are no more new Linux users.
Guess what i am one. been using LInux for about 6 months.
I consider myself new. If the linus community does not continue to keep new users in mind, it will slowly dissolve. I would have gone to Linux many years ago except i was under the impression it was to difficult unless you were a programmer and likes working from a command line.
Linux is better than sliced bread(microsoft) any day any time.
Thanks
29 • Distro Hopping (by Gene Venable on 2008-08-11 19:03:55 GMT from United States)
I think there is still plenty of distro hopping to be done. Parsix is new to me. I seem to have settled on Sidux on another computer. I have returned to Linux Mint after a vacation (my new monitor seems to be pretty distro-friendly in general, and I have fewer weird crashes even though I didn't change graphics cards).
There is still a lot of room for improvements in Linux. In five years, let's revisit the question of distro-hopping. I predict that we will laugh at the suggestion that hopping is coming to an end.
30 • Mobile Hopping (by Supernatendo on 2008-08-11 20:14:53 GMT from United States)
I don't "Hop" Distos so much anymore, at least not on my desktop. I find myself hopping when it comes to operating off of a live cd or pen drive or mobile device. I think this is where most of the hopping will take place the next five years. I'm pretty sure most of us have settled on a good solid desktop distro that suits our needs just fine and unless something drastic takes place have no reason to change yet. I believe that the most change and innovation that will lead to more distro hopping will come out of the mobile devices and portable media with systems similar to ANDROID, UBUNTU MI,, and so on.
31 • Distros (by Blue Knight on 2008-08-11 21:46:01 GMT from France)
Mint is a good distro but it's Ubuntu + codecs, java, flash... installed by default + some tools (MintMenu, MintDesktop etc) + some customizations (wallpapers...)...
A user, even a newbie, with some intelligence and curiosity, can set up Ubuntu without problems. It takes little time to do, this is not really difficult and you will find anywhere on the web, pages explaining codecs to add etc... and how. It only takes a few minutes...
Parsix is also a very good distro but Parsix = Debian testing + selected Ubuntu 8.04 backports + some extra tools (e.g. from Kanotix), adapted + a newer kernel + own theme + debian-multimedia.org repositories added by default...
Maybe probably there are too many distros. And some are similar to each other., they would do better to unite their efforts rather than to disperse each in their corner.
But actually the really usable distros are not so many...
32 • User-agent restrictions? (by User_Agent_007 on 2008-08-11 22:29:41 GMT from Netherlands)
Posting to forum is not functioning when my user agent is set to:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
I'm using Linux. Is it helpful for any website "know" what browser/OS an individual is using?
33 • @ 24 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-11 22:56:25 GMT from United States)
I'd really like to know what "core functionality" Joseph Tate thinks is missing or buggy.
The ability to redraw its windows quickly while using the nvidia blob on their newer chips.
34 • RE: 32 User-agent restrictions? (by ladislav on 2008-08-11 23:31:20 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, sorry about that. There was so much spam coming from bots identifying themselves that way that I decided to add a restriction preventing them from seeing the form. You can either change your user-agent string or email me your comment and I'll post in on your behalf.
35 • distro hopping (by combatwombat on 2008-08-11 23:35:04 GMT from New Zealand)
@27 : I agree on the comment about ARCH Linux. It is a viable and quick way to build your own customised Distro. And by adding the larch scripts you can quickly make it distributable. I am teaching myself about this meta-distro at the moment, using a virtualbox container in Ubuntu 8.04.1. Ubuntu is stable now, but certainly could be faster.
Many are choosing the base-it-on Ubuntu or Debian route to make a new distro because of the enormous repositories of software available. When a package management system like pacman grows it could make the Debian apt system look tired, IMHO.
36 • monthly donation (by h_nu on 2008-08-12 00:52:29 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint looks good but the only Linux I could find that supported my WPA wireless out of the box is Puppy. I was surprised to note that the madwifi project wasn't on the list of prior donation recipients. Surely this project is as important as any distro.
37 • Distro Hopping (by Anonymous on 2008-08-12 01:55:15 GMT from United States)
We went from Mandrake to Gentoo to avoid the politics of having to completely updating KDE just to update the kernel. Well, that was a long time ago. Gentoo was great for few years and started dropping behind. I agree with others there is just way too much work and configuration required to keep it running and the occasional did I say occasional? (say every 18 months like clock work whether or not they put out a new release) architectural change that the devs put you through are just too much.
No, the company is dumping Gentoo like hot potatoes, too much compiling and configuring and if you don't stay current you have to jump through hoops to get straightened out, yea I know what the talking heads say..
Too much bandwidth, too much compiling too hard on the hard drives!
I don't know what it will take, maybe one more time getting badmouthed by a dev for giving or answering the correct question or God only knows what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back then we'll probably close for a week and do the necessary software UPGRADE.
At present it looks like Mint is going to get the nod, already the Prez has his laptop running Mint Fluxbox, when he's happy....
Oh yea, he said for a certain person. "You know what you can do with that stick!"
Hey, don't shoot the messenger!
38 • ZENWALK AS NOT ENOUGH PACKAGES ? (by glinux on 2008-08-12 02:19:59 GMT from Canada)
Zenwalk tip !
Instead of their packages, you can add more and more packages to Zenwalk :
1) Download an rpm package from mandriva 2008 (Ex.: gedit.rpm) from
"www.rpm.pbone.net"
2) Type this as root : " rpm2tgz gedit.rpm" to transform gedit .rpm into gedit.tgz
(zenwalk and slackware extension)
3) Type as root "installpkg gedit.tgz"
4) then try the program
5) if some dependencies are missing to run the application ... just go back to
step #1 to find the missing libraries !
It's a way to add packages to Zenwalk.
(some pclinux packagesd works too)
I've install my Zenwalk Xcfe 5.2 and tranform iy into a gnome 2.22
including : gnome-nettool, gedit, gnome-netstatus-applet,etc.
The speed is incredible.
Why ?
Because a real-time-kernel must be clock at least at 1000mhz and that's what
Zenwalk have !
For those who's tired of Ubunt-breakable system and derinatives, enjoy this new linux way.
39 • BUNTU-BUNTU-BUNTU (by African + UK blended man ! on 2008-08-12 02:37:30 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu
Xubuntu
Kubuntu
Edubuntu
Bubuntu
Gogo-buntu
Gaga-buntu
Blablabla-buntu
African names for a U.K. Cie that have their head-office in London ?
And because it's not enough they product the new 8.04.1 version to make corrective to their 8.04 LTS. (long term scrap ?)
For me, it looks the same as a service-pack that you can remember somewhere!
Consider that their main packages came from Debian (not from Pebian, Rebian, Carabian, etc)
Is this a bit ridiculous to have all these names instead of one distrib wich offer many desktop option ?
40 • Re: 39 (by George on 2008-08-12 03:00:58 GMT from United States)
Thank you, thank you for sticking a pin into *.Buntu pretentious balloon - it's about time to stop this cloying political correctness-inspired idiocy. And say YES to Mandriva!
41 • @ 39 (by DrummerBoy on 2008-08-12 03:02:42 GMT from Australia)
39 Wrote: African names for a U.K. Cie that have their head-office in London ?
The man behind the brand (is there a woman behind this man?) is South African so he has some connection to Africa... hence the names.
But what's the issue it's just a name?
he he he he...
42 • excellent issue (by tt on 2008-08-12 03:59:02 GMT from United States)
This is another excellent issue of DistroWatch weekly!
Mint has earned your support.
Many of us are onboard with your hopes that Fedora 10 work out better. Fedora is a huge plus to the community as a whole, although it no longer finds a place on my hard drive.
I look forward to Foresight's KDE 3.5 release.
43 • Distro-Hoppin' On It's Last Legs, Or Are Ours Old? (by Landor on 2008-08-12 04:00:30 GMT from Canada)
A few weeks ago, maybe a bit more, I posted about how things have been a bit hom-hum for some time in the Linux World, after a comment I made to Ladislav.
I thought about just that comment while reading this week's issue and the comments here. I don't really believe anyone who has been here for some time can be a true measure of "the death" of distro-hopping.
When I first encountered Linux, back in it's early-early days (using Unix, BSD, and yes, DOS at the time) I was quite avid with the near instant of exposive innovation, it died off (somewhat), and honestly, so did my interest(though partly due to not meeting the same functionality another OS did at the time, for "me" anyway). Now with my return being well over a year, it's became the same thing, no more real innovation to lick my chops over and sink my teeth into. It took me roughly a year for that whole excitement again to wear a bit thin. Though, I must say some distros still seem to surprise me, I don't run to each release and check it out, for every distro.
That being said, I think most new users will obviously distro-hop until sated, then they'll slip into the comfortable numb most of us do, and enjoy what Linux has to offer us. So distro-hoppin' will never die really, in my opinion anyway.
I hope you had a great time on your vacation Ladislav, and enjoyed time spent! It's how life's supposed to be spent as you know :)
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
44 • There seems to be interest in 5years future of distributions (by dbrion on 2008-08-12 06:54:42 GMT from France)
But what about hardware evolution?
http://gizmodo.com/5027117/computer-mouse-rip-in-five-years-experts-say summarize an analysis claiming mice are doomed because of existing technologies (accelerometers are used in the car industry and, when they have gotten cheap enough, they have been ported to game boxes... touch screens have been known since 20 years -but some linux bloggers will write it is innovative, I bet) and ?promizing new technologies (facial recognition).
The old fashioned keyboard is likely to survive (anyway, such evolution can lead to numerous bugs....).
As menus adapted to rats can be more complicated than menus adpted to touchscreens, many distributions might lead to many funny bugs and thousands of untested, antiergonomic applications they proudly will copy and distribute ....
45 • Mint and their Software Portal (by Béranger on 2008-08-12 07:28:56 GMT from Romania)
What I could never understand with Mint (take aside the single-panel GNOME) is the way their Software Portal (linuxmint.com/software/) considers that the users MUST be stupid or something.
Just try ANY of the packages/applications offered there, ad go to "Read More" to get the details.
The details include: "Added", "Views", "Rating", "License", "Size".
The package/application VERSION is NOT specified!
There is NO VERSION INFO for none of the packages in the Software Portal!
How could anyone install something without even knowing what version are they installing?
I guess we should add a new definition: "Mint is a Celtic word that means «I am too stupid to use Ubuntu»."
46 • re: 39 (by Dopher on 2008-08-12 08:20:18 GMT from Belgium)
So much hate in your post.
Try to be more positive and realistic. (you might wanna go outside for a walk, to enjoy the sun, and pick a flower, and perhaps hum a happy song)
LTS version "scrap? It's actually Long Term Support. Which is great if you don't want to reinstall and reconfigure your computer every half year.
Second, correcting your LTS release with bugfixes is not bad. It's good. And whether you call it an update or a servicepack, it really doesn't matter. But appearantly they are maintaining their LTS release.
47 • PC-BSD (by Eric on 2008-08-12 08:48:44 GMT from Canada)
Also Ladislav, for my comment #1, I would like to clarify it would be cool to have both KDE3 AND KDE4 version PBI's in their system to let the user choose, as i think KDE4 just isn't ready yet from the KDE team focusing on bugfixing and believing nothing else matters. But ALSO i would like to suggest PC-BSD as the receiver for the next Donation, as they seem to be a really active and high effort team with porting and bug fixing so much software, instead of just re-branding the btuntu's.
48 • Qu 40 Who is "they" (by dbrion on 2008-08-12 08:53:18 GMT from France)
"But appearantly they are maintaining their LTS release"
Is it a maintaing work?
Or just copying other people's work (without great skills to detect/correct bugs) and claiming they support? On HUGE repos (cutting an application into tiny, almost unusable, pieces artificially increases the number of packages and the illusion they are user friendly and competent).
49 • Distro Hop Hop (by Poindexter on 2008-08-12 09:09:14 GMT from Australia)
I wonder how many like me "Hop" to get a distro to work out of the box for a particular hardware base. For around 18 months now, when time permitted, I would try a different Distro on my Toshiba M110 laptop, and I would search the forums and local LUG's to fix this and get that to work. To my amazement I finally loaded a Disto where everything I needed just "worked". All my plug and play gear that I would revert to my windows partition to use was configured, I never believed this would happen, all the usual suspects ie: wireless,powersave, touchpad, bluetooth, proprietary stuff etc was all good, so for me no more "hopping". Yes I tried the "Top Twenty" and them some. I'm now a happy chappy. Thanks Pardus.
50 • re: (by Dopher on 2008-08-12 09:09:16 GMT from Belgium)
Allright. What do you suggest?
Should the ubuntu developers start from scratch. So, Instead of using firefox as their main browser, should they code their own internet browser with engine. Instead of using openoffice.org should they code their own office suite? Is that what you suggest?
With your post you are actually saying that every distro is stealing other peoples work, since all distro's use applications like abiword, mtpaint, openoffice.org, etc.
51 • RE 50 NO I state that some distro steal the glory out of (by dbrion on 2008-08-12 09:18:30 GMT from France)
other people work, without adding (at least arithmetically) any value ; Added value can come from bug detection/corrections (I think of Red Hat... has a LTS).
and without even acknowledging it (I think of Frugalware, among other distrs).
And this practice is dangerous, on the Long Term.. ( developpers and users can get fed up with the way free apps are handled by somehow-added-value-gobetweens)
52 • DistroHopping's end days? Maybe.... (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-08-12 09:28:41 GMT from Pakistan)
There are quite some varied opinions about distro hopping here.
Actually, in my opinion, distro hopping will never really end. The very variety that makes the linux world what it is, also keeps the balance of power shifting. One distro might seem very good for some time for some one for some purpose on some machine. But there is always going to be another distro that may make it a point to do better than the prior.
Case in point: how many people just a year or two or so back would have been so willing to "hop" onto the Mandriva, while it was in a state of apathy? But now everyone is ready to take that hop.
53 • LiveCD on RAM (by just_me on 2008-08-12 09:36:30 GMT from Spain)
Hello people, I'm looking for distros that load entirely and then I can take the CD out.
I lately discovered Puppy, I had it burned in a CD for days but when I actually tried it I saw it was like what I'm looking for. And then I see Tin Hat on this DWW (haven't tried it yet).
But I bet there're some more, can anyone tell me some of them?
54 • LiveCD on RAM (by just_me on 2008-08-12 09:41:00 GMT from Spain)
Ah, I forgot. I'm on a 256 RAM pc, x86 cpu 1.7 GHz that makes a lot of noise.
55 • Workbench +1 (by M. Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér on 2008-08-12 10:10:15 GMT from Denmark)
I must admit that Workbench is very pleasing to the eye. An aesthetically pleasing virtual workshop.
56 • REPLY TO 46 (BUNTU-BUNTU-BUNTU) (by African + UK blended man on 2008-08-12 10:47:12 GMT from Canada)
Do you know that Ubuntu use debian packages and then modified them to be use only with their distrib. (many debian packages doesn't fit on Buntu).
1) Is that what you call "Open Source for all" ?
2) Like M$, they have the pilosophy to promess a better distrib each time they
make new one, but the reality is that they always have bugs into it each time.
To proove it : 8.04.1
3) No sir, the president of Ubunbtu is a South African, and guess from where he
came from !
He's a pure loyalist of his majesty !
4)Or you came from the world of M$, or you beleive anything you ear.
But it's a fat that you could read a bit more on Linux and BSD world !
5) To end this comment, do you know that M$ buy Linspire (to have the rights on
CNR (click-n-run))
Do you know that BUNTU propose to include CNR in their future project
Like Novell, they promise to make a deal with the devil !
Between a bugy Buntu and a stable Debian, Slackware,Mandriva (even in Gnome), BSD, and so on , don't ask me what a prefer in the list !
57 • @56 UBUNTU etc, etc, etc (by Dazed and Confused on 2008-08-12 11:11:25 GMT from Australia)
Your comment number 4... MS bought Linspire?
Didn't Xandros "buy" Linspire? Does MS own Xandros? I'm asking!
58 • re: 56 (by Dopher on 2008-08-12 12:46:39 GMT from Belgium)
Modified can mean anything. If you prefer a certain way of config, it's natural to modify the applications to your infrastructure.
2) that's a point that can be discussed. I for instance think that the 8.04 release is better then the previous. Every new OS will have new bugs.
4) That is a fact indeed. But do I, or the average user first need to read the complete history of linux/bsd before I/he/she can use the system. (btw, will there be an exam?) :p And.. do you? and do you do that with every product you use? Like your bike? Do you first check out the history of the manufacturer of the bike before you are going to ride it?
5) And this remark was funny. Do i have to know that MS bought Linspire? I don't even care. I don't use CNR, i prefer apt-get
And to end this remark, did you know that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, two of the biggest commodities trading houses, have bought stakes in the Dubai Mercantile Exchange. And we all know that Mr Smith (and this is delicate, is a close relative to Bill Gates) has shares of that tradinghouse. Now the Son of mr smith, johny, is using Mandriva. Now we all know what that means. Don't ask me what i prefer not to use.
59 • RE: 57 You are correct. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-08-12 13:02:55 GMT from United States)
Yes XandrOS did buy Linspire. I do believe that #56 may be a troll or else he would have his facts straight or try to offer some proof of his comments. But I'm sure that we'll never see that. That,s what you get from most of the Ubuntu haters here (and there are a lot) is mostly just mouth and nothing to back it up. Go ahead and cry you big babies!
60 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-12 13:08:45 GMT from France)
"Modified can mean anything. "
I agree. There are positive, useful modifications and some which are in the best case useless and have no other purpose (unless there is a rational reason) than to prevent users to goto more serious sources of software.
" the average user first need to read the complete history of linux/bsd"
One cannot average a user (it would look like a zebra, perhaps). Some operation are monstruous ans hiding behind THE average user/ my uncle/THE newbye shows a pitiful lack of argumentation...
Knowing which distributions have some consideration to the users aand the original authors , and which are just empty PR, promising new things every presss release every week (and one *never* knows what has been done, and by whom....) can avoid loosing ones time testing the greatest "success" of the free world (among hundreds of distrs, and some , like RH and its clones, are really useful and can offer real LTS, based on real work-not promises-).
PS The best versions of free applications I know were often (not valgrind, of course, but more than 60%)... Windows ports, the author (not the distributor) or his friend ported correctly, in order to satisfy a majority of users (another majority based argument which does not lead to choose GNUlinux)....
61 • Re 24: What I think is buggy or missing (by Joseph Tate on 2008-08-12 13:11:08 GMT from United States)
Mostly the SSL core support, which is new in Qt 4.x, and only partially completed, as I linked in the original blog post. There are quite a few rendering glitches still with the compositing effects in kwin, as mentioned by #33, but I view those as minor, and not the principle reason for the decision. Besides what I linked in my post, I have a list that I'm keeping here: https://wiki.foresightlinux.org/display/~jtate/Home . Not all of the issues are still there in the latest release, but you can get an idea. If I've found those issues just in casual use, there are certainly more lurking below.
62 • @53 - LiveCDs that work from RAM (by BhaKi on 2008-08-12 16:02:59 GMT from India)
You can use Slax. There are many others out there with this capability. But Slax is the most complete one for me. None among the others offers GCC.
63 • Re: 28 "New Linux users" (by Nobody important on 2008-08-12 16:08:50 GMT from United States)
You misunderstand me.
I'm talking about the "newbie" users every single Linux article has to discuss because they feel obligated to think how a regular mainstream user would use Linux. I'm saying that they don't exist.
Yes, yes, we get new users every day for Linux, but those are the people who actually care about what OS they use. Most computer users check their e-mail every day, post on Facebook, and turn it off, and that's all they know how to do (or care to learn about). If the computer geek in the house installs a new Windows edition, then it's time to learn where all the buttons are again; so be it. They could care less if their computer runs slowly or costs money. It's all magic to them anyway.
Linux needs to stop trying to cater to those people. They don't care what OS they use (aside from Mac users, most of which I know are very conservative on that front no matter their tech level). I'm not saying that all distros need to be hard and user-un-friendly; there's a place for easier Ubuntu-esque distros out there, and I use them when I want to get work done quickly without much fuss or configuration.
But once we get away from taking the choice away from the user after the install, we'll have an end to distro-hopping. I mean, there's not a whole lot of difference between all of the distros out there anyway, especially with Gnome and KDE becoming as large and potent as they are. As compatibility and internet bandwidth grows, we'll all be using whatever personalized distro we made from our packages and software, and the base we started with will matter less and less. By that time, downloading a new iso full of software we don't need or care for sounds pretty foolish.
64 • #62, #63, #28 -- Live CD with GCC, new Linux users (by Caitlyn on 2008-08-12 17:33:10 GMT from United States)
#62: AliXe is another good choice. It's based on Slax 6 but it uses an Xfce desktop which I find to be lighterweight and faster. Xfce is also smaller so AliXe ends up with more space for usable apps. It also includes GCC.
#63: I completely disagree with your premise. New people discover Linux all the time for all sorts of reasons, either because the picked up a new Netbook or because they visited a friend who has it on their computer. They've been told or have discovered that it has advantages (no virii or worms, faster, whatever floats their boat) and if they decide to install it on another PC they need the installation to be easy and the initial learning curve to be shallow. They may become more knowledgeable in time or not depending on their interests. I agree with #28: new users not only exist but they are vital.
Don't worry, there will always be more technically minded fiddly distros for folks who don't like easy to use ones.
65 • Re: 64 (by Nobody important on 2008-08-12 20:31:54 GMT from United States)
I don't know who you're talking about, however. I'm talking about different new users than you are.
I try to talk to my friends and family about Linux, and ten minutes in they're asking, "Why does this matter?" They have something that works: Windows XP. They don't really understand what Windows is, but it works for them just fine. It's a non-issue. Those are the people who don't care about Linux, and yet the community is bent on serving them. Those are the people I'm talking about.
Again, I'm not talking about people who do switch regularly. Linux newbies, the people who know what a partition is, and who understand the concept of OS's, kernels, and packages, exist. That's what Linux is for, and those are not the people I'm talking about. Duh. I'm one of them, and who isn't?
I'd say most of the people I know are on the level of "Computer = Microwave." Press a button, something happens. That's all there is to it. No upgrade or alternates needed. That is who I'm talking about. Not the Linux newbies on the Ubuntu forums; I fully support them and hope they have a good time sailing.
66 • @58, 51 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-12 20:41:13 GMT from France)
@58:
> "I for instance think that the 8.04 release is better then the previous."
For me no, it's a shame!
@51:
> "and without even acknowledging it (I think of Frugalware, among other distrs)."
hmm... Can you develop a little about Frugalware please?
67 • @ 65 (by Alan UK on 2008-08-12 21:11:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well said. I couldn't agree more. Viruses, trojans, malware, clicking on spam emails etc. These are the people who really should be using Linux/Unix.
68 • ref#66 (by verndog on 2008-08-12 22:25:03 GMT from United States)
"For me no, it's a shame!"
You care to elaborate a little. That's not a good rebuttle to Post #58. I too think that ubuntu 8.04 is the best. And 804.1 is even better. All my hardware is detected and everything works out of the box. What's to complain about that?
Why is is a shame?
I moved or am running debian right now. Not because ubuntu was bad, I just wanted to try debian again. I had problems with previous debian and sound issues. The newest debian, Lenny, works much better.
69 • WHO BUNTU ! (by WHO BOUN 2 on 2008-08-13 02:04:06 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu
Xubuntu
Kubuntu
Edubuntu
Bubuntu
Gogo-buntu
Gaga-buntu
Blablabla-buntu
African names for a U.K. Cie that have their head-office in London ?
And because it's not enough they product the new 8.04.1 version to add corrective to their 8.04 LTS. (long term scrap ?)
For me, it looks the same as a service-pack that you can remember somewhere!
Consider that their main packages came from Debian (not from Pebian, Rebian, Carabian, etc)
Is this a bit ridiculous to have all these names instead of one distrib wich offer
many desktop option ?
Do you know that Ubuntu use debian packages and then modified them to be use only with their distrib. (many debian packages doesn't fit on Buntu).
1) Is that what you call "Open Source for all" ?
2) Like M$, they have the pilosophy to promess a better distrib each time they
make new one, but the reality is that they always have bugs into it each time.
To proove it : 8.04.1
And like M$, they copy Debian and others to make their own product .
3)The president of Ubunbtu is a South African, and guess from where he
came from !
He's a pure loyalist of his majesty !
Don't you know that south-africa is almost a U.K. kingdom ?
4) To end this comment, do you know that M$ buy Linspire
(to have the rights on CNR (click-n-run))
Do you know that BUNTU propose to include CNR in their future project
Like Novell...they will make a deal with the devil !
5) Do you remember Corel Linux distrib. (that was an excellent product)
They were acquire by M$ and change the name for Xandros !
Now Xandros acquire Linspire !
Bizarre
6) Vista is a piece of chit and M$ panic
They put money in Novell, because Suse 10 was better than vista.
Now they buy Linspire ( but keep freespire, that will be probably the testing
version of Xandros)
7) Like M$, do you know that Buntu have a TRACKER inside is distrib ?
Have you ever seen a Slackware or Debian user here saying
bad thing about them ?
Make your conclusion...and read, read, search...
Knowing Linux is knowing your distrib and what to do !
70 • @#65 (by DanceMan on 2008-08-13 02:20:33 GMT from Canada)
I agree that most people aren't going to try linux. These are the people who when asked which browser they use don't know what you're talking about. However there is a class of user, like me, who knows exactly what linux is, wants to use it, but gets tripped up when he actually tries to use it. I dual booted Ubuntu on a laptop until I couldn't upgrade Firefox from v1.xx to v2.0. I'm good with hardware, I know the best free apps to keep a Windows install clean, but I'm no software guru. I just tried to get a linux install working in an old PII 300 laptop. The killer was the need to get a PC card ethernet adapter working. I just wiped Absolute this morning with Dban and put Win2K on it. I don't have endless hours to spend on it and I'd already wasted too much time.
The people who do have the software skills would do the community much better service by writing means to get all that existing hardware to install easily for people like me with minimal command line skills instead of packaging yet another distro. There are enough people like me willing to use linux but lacking software skills to significantly increase the linux user base.
71 • #69 What's going on here (by Verndog on 2008-08-13 02:49:25 GMT from United States)
Combine #39 and #56 and you get #69. This is not fuzzy math, but just look at all three. They look the same. This this some sort of bot running here.
72 • Re: 61 (by Duhnonymous on 2008-08-13 02:53:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the response. I guess KDE 4.1 is not quite ready for everybody even if it is perfectly acceptable for me.
73 • KDE 4.1 (by BhaKi on 2008-08-13 05:15:30 GMT from India)
KDE 4.1 is on par with KDE 3.5.9 as far as the base libraries are concerned. The difference is solely in the applications part. There are so many applications for KDE3 written by people who are not members of the KDE team. Most of these people aren't porting their applications to KDE4. This is giving the wrong impression that the KDE team itself is not working.
74 • Partial answ to 66 (by dbrion on 2008-08-13 06:45:47 GMT from France)
"
> "and without even acknowledging it (I think of Frugalware, among other distrs)."
hmm... Can you develop a little about Frugalware please?
"
I agree that I was ambiguous...
I recently noticed that Frugalware announed her release bby writing they had added a newer version of Octave (a Matlab clone; it took them 6 months to reclone new versions of Matlab, and that can make many students happy). Last year, they announced they had added a new application (do not remember when).
This is what real people expect (not a kernel, nor wallpapers,not a brand) and it seems nice towards Octave (and other applications) developpers. It seems better, anyway, than cutting some applications into (almost unusable) pieces, just to claim one has more packages that others...
OTOH, did xUBUlinux once announce they had shipped some useful apps ? When?
75 • Educating #69 (by Answerbot on 2008-08-13 09:19:00 GMT from Germany)
Hi there, I'm the friendly Answerbot and want to make your "read, read, search" a little easier.
Let me start by saying that I'm a Debian SysAdmin (my working hat) and an ArchLinux user (my private hat). I, too, find the name proliferation of Ubuntu and siblings ridiculous, but I can't leave the rest stay uncorrected -- just in case anybody happens to stumble upon it.
"Do you know that Ubuntu use debian packages and then modified them to be use only with their distrib. (many debian packages doesn't fit on Buntu).
1) Is that what you call "Open Source for all" ?"
Ubuntu is another distribution than Debian and it would be unreasonable to expect Ubuntu packages to run under Debian or vice versa. You don't expect Fedora packages to be running under Debian, do you? I agree, it would be useful to get a LSB package that runs on all LSB certified distributions but the various attempts so far have all failed.
"
2) Like M$, they have the pilosophy to promess a better distrib each time they
make new one, but the reality is that they always have bugs into it each time.
To proove it : 8.04.1
And like M$, they copy Debian and others to make their own product .
"
OK, that's actually THREE points. Firts, Canonical, the business entity behind Ubuntu, is not surprisingly marketing their product. Part of marketing is claiming that version n+1 is better than version n. Now we can enter the philosophical debate if change is actually an improvement, but we can say for certain that Ubuntu releases bring changed software.
Second, all software is buggy. Some distributions take greater pains to make sure things are not badly broken (e. g. Debian, Red Hat), some don't (e. g. Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu) -- most often you can easily keep them apart by their release cycles. But you can't deny the fact that all software is buggy.
Third, copying Debian or parts of Debian is a granted right under the provisions of the GNU Public Licences (and many other licenses). As long as the copier is otherwise obeying the license restrictions this is fully to be endorsed and raging against it shows a serious flaw in your perspective of free and open software. Microsoft, OTOH, is not copying Debian or anything. They are alleged to have taken BSD licensed code and made it proprietiary, but considering the BSD license, that was their legal and moral right to do.
"
3)The president of Ubunbtu is a South African, and guess from where he
came from !
He's a pure loyalist of his majesty !
Don't you know that south-africa is almost a U.K. kingdom ?
"
This statement is so ... deranged, I have to admit that adjectives fail me to properly address it. Let's just assume you want to talk about Mark Shuttleworth, funder of Canonical and the Ubuntu Foundation, who is, by all accounts, a native South African. South Africa often was occupied by Great Britain and later became a dominion (a member of the Commonwealth, like Canada or Australia) but basically traces its roots to the Boers, a dutch and flamish people.
Anyway, what's Shuttleworth's origin to do with anything?
"
4) To end this comment, do you know that M$ buy Linspire
(to have the rights on CNR (click-n-run))
Do you know that BUNTU propose to include CNR in their future project
Like Novell...they will make a deal with the devil !
"
Linspire was bought by Xandros, an independent entity. Xandros signed one of the infamous patent-covenants with Microsoft, but is not owned by Microsoft. Why Xandros bought Linspire is open to speculation, nobody official said anything about it. CNR is as good a guess as is the relativly large home user base of Linspire.
There once has been talk about incorporating CNR into Ubuntu, but I don't know what has come of it.
"
5) Do you remember Corel Linux distrib. (that was an excellent product)
They were acquire by M$ and change the name for Xandros !
Now Xandros acquire Linspire !
Bizarre
"
Corel was the producer of Corel Linux, a Debian based enterprise distribution. Corel was in financial trouble and Microsoft purchased a sizeable chunk of Corel stock, but did not take over. It is true, however, that subsequently Corel dropped its Corel Linux effort, which was (much) later bought by the new business entity Xandros.
"
6) Vista is a piece of chit and M$ panic
They put money in Novell, because Suse 10 was better than vista.
Now they buy Linspire ( but keep freespire, that will be probably the testing
version of Xandros)
"
Probably Freespire will be the testbed of Xandros, much like the Fedora/Red Hat situation, Xandros said that much. However, Microsoft did not buy Linspire, Xandros did, just like you pointed out above in point 5) I can't add anything with regards to MS Vista or Novell SUSE 10.
"
7) Like M$, do you know that Buntu have a TRACKER inside is distrib ?
"
What do you mean by that? The popularity contest, which is a voluntary participation program or the hardware reporter, which also is voluntary? We have a single Ubuntu station in our network and it is not polluting the network with unexpected traffic.
"
Have you ever seen a Slackware or Debian user here saying
bad thing about them ?
"
Well, yes and no. Ubuntu gets a lot of bad mouthing from hardcore Debian fanboys but not so much from Slackers. It is a good thing that most DDs are cool about the situation because they, apparently unlike many users, understand the nature of free and open software.
"
Make your conclusion...and read, read, search...
Knowing Linux is knowing your distrib and what to do !
"
Yes, nothing to add.
76 • Re: 70 (by Nobody important on 2008-08-13 13:52:51 GMT from United States)
(I'm staying out of the Ubuntu discussion; I support Ubuntu and think it's a fine distro, but responding to trolls and hacks is not the way to go. Just ignore them; they crave attention. That's why they don't bother learning basic English.)
@ 70:That's exactly what I'm getting it. Instead of making yet another iso file with packages that you could get in a different distro anyway, we should be concentrating on making sure that each distro works and is as customizable as possible. Then, instead of distro-hopping, we can just tell the installer what we want, and the installer goes and downloads the packages for us.
Give us the choice _after_ the installation, not before. I am unable to find one distro I like out of the box; I'd rather use Arch and select what packages I want specifically (Gnome with Amarok, Abiword, and a few other odd items), but it's a little too techie for my tastes. If a distro were to use that philosophy but make it easy to find what packages to grab, then we'd be on our way.
As long as the main distro base is solid and finds all of the hardware, of course. And that's an ever changing situation, but one that's very important.
77 • 70 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-08-13 15:51:38 GMT from United States)
I agree with you that hardware compatibility is a problem, but the question is what we can do about it. Hardware makers put a lot of effort into making sure everything works with Windows. They either ignore Linux or are openly hostile towards it (for example, Broadcom). OTOH when Linux supports something it is usually easier than Windows - I have many examples where hardware just works in Linux but is a hassle in Windows. The difference is that hardware vendors support Windows troubles. I have seen no comprehensive solution, thought it has gotten much better the last few years.
We need better documentation, and installation of new applications on old distros is indeed a problem (though not with Firefox - that's pretty easy). There has been a lot written on software installation in Linux, but with little success. My solution is to use Slackware and compile my own apps. Very easy to do but stupid IMO if you can get an executable of the new version for Windows.
78 • Wonderful (by gabriele on 2008-08-13 16:54:38 GMT from Italy)
Your site is wonderful.Every day i come in this interessant site.I like linux.I usemint elyssa.Good luke and good work
Gabriele by italy
79 • Distro for media PC (mostly Audio) (by Peter Wood on 2008-08-13 17:01:36 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi,
I would like to build a media center which houses all my CDs and plays through the HI-Fi. I would like it to be Linux based as for stability etc.
The question is; is there a purpose built distro to do this job? There are so many out there that I am realy confused.
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask thie question but I don't know where else there is. I googled and this site came up.
Regards, Peter
80 • @77 Ubuntu excels on newer laptops (by DanceMan on 2008-08-13 18:03:14 GMT from Canada)
"OTOH when Linux supports something it is usually easier than Windows - I have many examples where hardware just works in Linux but is a hassle in Windows."
Ubuntu on laptops from the last 4 or 5 years is a prime example. Particularly with those using Intel chipsets and wireless, everything works right off a live cd, whereas a Windows install will have you hunting for the display and networking drivers.
I commend Atheros for recently hiring someone to make linux drivers for its wireless chipsets. I hope this will include writing drivers for their older wireless chipsets as well. Broadcom should take note. If I were an oem speccing hardware, I'd want maximum capability for my product. Dell marketing a few laptops with linux preinstalled should help the overall hardware compatibility of their line.
Lightweight distros aimed at old hardware would do well to pay more attention to making sure the networking will install easily. For me, a computer that can't get online is of little use.
81 • @ 76 (by Volore on 2008-08-13 18:12:51 GMT from France)
> "responding to trolls and hacks is not the way to go. Just ignore them; they crave attention. That's why they don't bother learning basic English."
I'm sorry but I don't see well the relationship between "crave attention" and "learning basic English"...
But maybe it's because I am French... :D
82 • QU 80 Temporal distorsions. (by dbrion on 2008-08-13 18:16:16 GMT from France)
"Ubuntu on laptops from the last 4 or 5 years is a prime example"
When was UBU linux released?
How did you tesst it
On which typed of laptopS?
83 • LiveCDs (by just_me on 2008-08-13 18:52:19 GMT from Spain)
@62,64
Thanks for your responses! I'll go try them.
84 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-13 20:49:48 GMT from Switzerland)
What's "UBU linux"? I can't find it in the distro list on the main page. Does the poster mean "UHU Linux"?
85 • @79 (by Casual Observer on 2008-08-13 23:46:37 GMT from Australia)
Try MythBuntu (Ubuntu based Media Centre type distro), GeexBox, MythDora (Fedora based Media Centre type distro)...
Have fun!
86 • RE 79 -- Media Center Distributions (by Answerbot on 2008-08-14 09:47:26 GMT from Germany)
Poster 85 already mentioned a few MC distributions. I would like to add LinuxMCE and Xtreme Media Center. And of course you can build your own utilizing MythTV, Freevo and other software.
On a final note, I've had good experiences with GeexBox as a DVD player.
87 • So... (by Anon E Moose on 2008-08-14 13:25:54 GMT from United States)
None of you, apparently, find anything even the slightest bit creepy about a user group calling themselves "Lolita" and using an image of a topless native girl on their fenuasoft page? Partially government sponsered too...
I've seen some daft acronyms used in *nix, beginning with GNU itself, but this one is just whacked.
88 • Distro for media PC (mostly Audio) (by Peter Wood on 2008-08-14 14:35:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thank you all very much for your suggestions for a media center. I have taken it all on board and will evaluate them all.
Thanks once again, Peter
89 • Where will Linux be in 2012 (by drizake on 2008-08-14 15:56:46 GMT from United States)
Interesting article...
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210002129
90 • Where will Linux be in 2012 (by ANON on 2008-08-14 17:53:49 GMT from United States)
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/29543
91 • @82 Ubuntu on laptops (by DanceMan on 2008-08-15 05:15:12 GMT from Canada)
About two years ago I used the then current Ubuntu distro on a Toshiba A10 (Cel 2.0) and a Compaq X1000 (Pentium M 1.3). Worked flawlessly on both.
I had one of them online, downloading Open Office, and saved it to a flash drive, all running off the cd with no hdd in the machine. And it wasn't my skills; the distro set up all the hardware, found the wireless connection and got online on its own.
Alas, it's not so easy with old hardware, in this case old being defined as an Armada PII 300.
92 • @87 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-15 07:03:09 GMT from United States)
Many countries don't have the sexual hangups that Mainland Americans do. You need to spend more time on the beach..
93 • RE #87 (by Answerbot on 2008-08-15 09:27:07 GMT from Germany)
No, topless girls are fun. And Lolita is a great book, too. Take the time to read it and gain some perspective on the term "Lolita". As usual the pop-cultural reference to the term is incomplete and simplicistic.
94 • RE: 87 I yelled, omg Ethel don't look! (The Streak, Ray Stevens) (by Landor on 2008-08-15 10:33:52 GMT from Canada)
I guess based on the "hardly" nude (ART), every museum, collection, that has other works of nude art should be taken with shock/repulsiveness and instant fervor within the ranks of humanity to have such sick and vile filth banished for all eternity!
While the rest of us admit to admiring a fine piece of art, displaying the obvious beauty that humanity can hold,at least on the physical.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
95 • QU 91 Is UBU linux apt to standard arithmetic? (by dbrion on 2008-08-15 13:59:32 GMT from France)
I was worried about some obvious data substraction errors in @80 '"Ubuntu on laptops from the last 4 or 5 years " .. And now I read "About two years "=> Therefore, in the UBU world, 4 = about 2...??? Who can trust it?
96 • RE 53,54 (by dbrion on 2008-08-15 14:15:14 GMT from France)
You might add Austrumi, I tested yesterday the "austrumi-1.7.2" version (you can choose the language/ keymap among greek, latvi, cyrillic , italian and english from the beginning (there is some help at starting : one should type al lang_en to boot with an english keymap)) One can remove the Cd and go on accessing to (among others) a firefox, a Gimp, and a biword.... I could not find a gcc, though compiling on old noisy (why are they noisy) pc might be unpleasant,as sometimes RAM is not enough...
The menus are not fully language homogenous in this version(they were in the former ... in Latvi), but the icons are easy to recognise and the menus are not too deep....
OTOH, why is your PC noisy(@54)? If it is *not* a laptop, you can easily open it, add some RAM (256 is small,in todays fashion) and verify the disk/CD reader have no arthritis and are correctlyl installed .
97 • Ref#91 (by Anonymous at 2008-08-15 15:57:44 GMT from United States)
"Alas, it's not so easy with old hardware, in this case old being defined as an Armada PII 300."
This the exact one I have. I haven't tried Ubuntu yet, but TinyMe works great. Their is problems using sound with Linux and dual-booting Windows XP. I have to go into setup and change the BIOS each time. So I just removed XP. Problem solved :)
98 • LiveCDs (by just_me on 2008-08-15 22:57:06 GMT from Spain)
@96
Thank you, I add Austrumi to my list.
I've noticed many "live on RAM" distros are based on Slackware, is it for any reason in particular?
"Why is your PC noisy?" Aha, good question. Who knows?, I think most of it comes from the fan.
"add some RAM [...]", eeerrmm, how to say it... I don't plan to do any spending on this computer, even if it's a very little price on 2 obsolete ram slots. Yes I am really cheap, you can say it loud ;)
Well, thanks for all the distros suggested.
99 • For Those Above Bored With Their Distro............ (by Distrowatcher on 2008-08-16 03:03:08 GMT from United States)
Give LFS / BLFS (or even Rock if you've got the stones) a go.
If you're serious about Linux, this is where you'll learn the nuts and bolts. You'll never be bored and you can whine about your distro to yourself and defend it at the same time.
Maybe even start to respect your favorite distro's developers.
Afterwards you'll rave at the ease of a Gentoo install or Slackware configuration. Or, use Vista, but it is not free (as in beer or democracy in china).
100 • @93 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-16 08:10:51 GMT from United States)
Remember, Americans are far more repressed when it comes to art. I doubt the moose will bother reading "Lolita" or renting either of the two movies based upon it.
101 • @98 - Live from RAM, Slackware (by BhaKi on 2008-08-16 11:25:30 GMT from India)
> I've noticed many "live on RAM" distros are based on Slackware, is it for any reason in particular?
There is no direct reason. The init scripts needed for this were first written by Tomas M. They are called as the "Linux live scripts". You can use them to create a live CD from a directory containing your rootfs. He also created Slax which is a live distro based on Slackware and Linux live scripts. It had many innovations including the "Live from RAM" feature. It also booted very fast compared to the once-popular Live distros like Knoppix. As a result, Slax became an immense hit. Though both Slax and Linux live scripts became very popular, distro-makers, of late, increasingly tended to create new distros based on Slax rather than using the Linux live scripts. These distros have basically the same structure as Slax, but contain different/additional packages from Slackware (because Slax is only compatible with Slackware packages). And thus these distros are "Slackware-based".
102 • re 101 (by just_me on 2008-08-16 18:01:52 GMT from Spain)
Hey, thanks for your info. I'm really mad on live and from ram dists lately...
103 • No subject (by Jon N on 2008-08-16 20:46:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Another great DW, Late reading it I know but its a must read for me. I've seen workbench linux and am going to give it a try.
104 • Inside -out looks (by Who cares on 2008-08-17 08:44:33 GMT from Canada)
The week is winding down-
While we await - Revews of next weeks'
Wonder-ful whirled of *Gnu creations*
Sum parting thoughts Re interesting takes on *Lolita*
The "distastful" connotation being_ Innocence_Lost ?
Expressions of U. S. citizens being sexually repressed -
are NOT CONstrained to that shaky amalgam of "leaders of democracy"
(Even 'tho all credibility seems lost via demonstrable proclamations thereof)
- Plse consider laughable double standards
> E.G - Rightuous morality thumpers re-enforced by media to sell their product:
TiT - ilated public "Indignations" ???
(Over what) -
"Flashing" of a young black pop singer -
~ WHILE @ the same time, non-stop 24/7 airings on umpteen TV channels:
The total content consisting of in_your _face outright *porn*
(The movers & "Shakers" forgot the rules:)
< Let the imagination run rampant
> Suggest, don't overwhelm_by over-exposure
Now, what many might like answered
Are they "Warnings" - or *Advertising*
("This show > contains scenes of nudity, coarse language & violence")
Who *really* cares - we long were aware of the trusism enshrined, in all for_profit_media:
Sex sells
Which the the rightous - who the blatant liars
Hypocrites all - seems too lenient a conclusion
NTIM - The book/movie itself -was more a sad reflection on
> The follies of age in pursuit of frustrated temptations
105 • Ubuntu rocks (by Zac on 2008-08-17 14:56:44 GMT from Australia)
Ubuntu 8.04.1 works perfectly for me, stability? 100%, it is fantastic. Ubuntu has given me good service over the last two years.
Distro hopping is not for me. A new desktop colour, a few additional apps, a different menu layout, a few loud people say your distro is crap and mine is best, etc Not good reasons for me.
But I will distro try though. It is interesting to keep across what happening. The top distros are technically similar and mainly differ in the politics and its ecosystem.
106 • RE 99 BLFS (by dbrion on 2008-08-18 08:17:28 GMT from France)
Sometimes, I use (B)LFS books for adding new softwares (by recompiling) to my distribution I never change. I noticed they have all the sources, and they recommand to download from the original (they use their server as a rescue). By converting their PDFbook into text (pdftotext -layout), and looking for the origines (this book has a repetitive structure: therefore one can apply such commands as 'cat BLFS.txt | gre Downloads| greb -i debian |wc', say ) I noticed that three (out of ???? I tried ubu as a keyword without result) distributions (redhat, debian and gentoo) were considered reliable enough to supply sources (when the original author has given up or when they are the original author). This seems the same list of reliable enough distributions as in T2...
Number of Comments: 106
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