 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 263, 28 July 2008 |
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Welcome to this year's 30th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! There's been a lot of activities in distribution releases this past week and a bit in developmental releases as well - openSUSE and Ubuntu developmental versions created a bit of buzz around the Web. In the news this week the Mandriva distribution celebrates 10 years, Foxconn Electronics has angered Linux users, and openSUSE is giving away PromoDVDs. Steven Lake is back with us again this morning with a look at NimbleX 2008, I took Parted Magic for a wee spin, and Caitlyn Martin dissects VectorLinux 5.9 SOHO in Reviewed Last Week.
All this and more in this week's DistroWatch Weekly - happy reading!
Content:
 Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in ogg (14MB) and mp3 (13MB) formats (many thanks to Russ Wenner)
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story |
Review: NimbleX 2008
(by Steven Lake)
About nine months ago I reviewed NimbleX 2007 and found it to be quite an enjoyable compact distribution with a number of unique features. The first of those was that it is designed to run from a CD, a USB pen drive or even from the network rather than a hard drive. A combination most other distributions don't do. Or for that matter, any that I'm aware of. NimbleX 2007 was also very fast with a lot of great tools. It set quite a precedent when it came out. So what's special about 2008 that sets it apart from its predecessor?
LiveCD
Well, there are several things actually. Starting with initial bootup of the livecd, you're greeted by five basic boot options in the grub menu. They are as follows:
- NimbleX 2008 - Boot in KDE
- NimbleX 2008 - Boot in KDM
- NimbleX 2008 - Command Line
- NimbleX 2008 - Safe Install
- Boot from the first harddisk partition
Now honestly, these choices both intrigued me and confused me. KDM is the KDE Login Manager, and rarely have I ever seen a distribution that actually suggests you should boot from either KDM, or raw KDE. Selecting the first option boots you into a generic, raw version of KDE, complete with a basic list of software. Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. You have a choice of E16 (enlightenment), EDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, KDE, Openbox, and TWM.
The command line option allows you to boot into a basic command line, perfect for troubleshooting hardware issues on your system. Safe install allows you to boot in a basic, semi-gui environment should your hardware have issues installing NimbleX via a gui environment, or if you choose to just take the quick and dirty way around it and go directly to the installer without first booting into the livecd. Either can be done, and is entirely up to your own personal preferences. The last option on the boot menu obviously boots you into your regular PC hard drive so you can use whatever OS is already installed there.
Depending on which window manager (WM) you choose will go a long ways towards what you have at your disposal. I say this because not all of the WM's have access to all of the programs. KDE seems to be the most complete out of all of them, having access to what appears to be every available application on the disk. And there's a lot of them. What's even more surprising is how small the NimbleX iso is compared with
what's on it. It weighs in at a humble 199mb. That's like packing an elephant into a British Mini.
But somehow the developers of NimbleX 2008 managed to get an entire OS that could easily fill up an entire CD into a very surprisingly small space. That's impressive to say the least. Speed wise, the livecd loads amazingly fast, and even on a machine with very, very humble specs, the cd loads very quickly and gets you where you need to go faster than most livecd's out there.
Upon loading up the computer and reaching the desktop (using KDM) I was surprised that you had to login. I was even more surprised to realize that they don't tell you what the login is. A little bit of rebooting and digging revealed that the default login is "root/toor". Why they have you login as root is beyond me, but I guess it's alright for a livecd environment, so long as you don't go running around trying to play god or anything.
Once you're onto the desktop (depending on which WM you use), you will find a wide range of different, but similar eye candy experiences, all of which look quite nice. Each of the WM's appear to be untouched for the most part, leaving them in nearly original condition. There are a few oddities, tweaks and preferences set down by the developers, that I found to be quite curious. For one, it is impossible to adjust screen resolution if you're using KDM to load your WM, but if you boot into raw KDE, you can. You also don't have to login to KDE if you boot straight into it from the boot
menu.
The list of software available in both the livecd and installed version is quite impressive. Present are popular programs such as Firefox, XMMS (I'm pleased to see this one added), Mplayer, Gimp, Xine, K3b, and several others. Gone are a lot of the "fluff" extra programs you wouldn't use or which are not used often enough to warrant their inclusion. There are a few games, some of the more popular secondary
applications, such as Kmail, Kword, some very useful utility applications such as a bluetooth monitor, a firewall, and a number of other useful applications.
The livecd interface is clean, snappy, and while simple, is very practical for everyday use. It's also obviously very lean, despite the impressive list of applications. In other words, just as I mentioned above with all the "fluff" applications trimmed out. Now once you're ready to shutdown, doing so is a bit odd. Instead of actually shutting everything down, it just gives you the option to end the WM session, and then dumps you to a semi-graphical (ie, console with a pretty graphical container) console session that you have to login to. In order to completely shut down the PC, you have to kick out the CD, then power down the machine by holding in the power button.
That's a bit dumb in my book, but it's what you have to do. On the flipside though, you can easily pick up and restart X at this point and start working in your livecd again. You can also do some jockeying in the console if you so choose.
Installation
Installing NimbleX is a bit like playing a game of dice. In order to succeed, you have to do everything perfect, and pray the installer doesn't get heartburn in the middle. It uses a text based installer (nxinst) to do your installation, so it isn't all pretty and nice like other installers, yet it's still simple enough for even a newbie to do. Well, mostly. The initial menu includes two things. An option to install either to USB or hard drive, and the ever famous warning disclaimer.
The NimbleX Installer
(full image size: 78kB, screen resolution: 1024x768 pixels)
I tested first with the HDD option, which ultimately failed, despite my best efforts. Interestingly enough, the developers included a warning that this is "a work in progress" and it may have a few issues. Now while I'm not partial to having a flaky installer in a finished product (the distro), at least they were kind enough to come out and mention that it's still a beta, rather than a finished product (the installer), and that some issues might occur. If you tell it to install to USB, then select the primary HD as the installation destination, you can still install NimbleX to your hard drive.
One thing to note however, if you install to a pen drive, or even your HD, NimbleX will install the system to a single ext3 partition, and all configurations are, curiously enough, saved to a fat32 partition that it adds in first. I don't know why it does this, but I suspect there's some crazy reason behind this. Either way, it's part of the install, so don't be surprised by it. Also, when creating the fat32 partition, allow at least 25 megs for system configurations, upwards to 500mb depending on how much
data you plan to save.
Installation time from start to finish is 10% installing time and 90% choosing your configurations. It's not that the menus are excessively time consuming, because they're not. In fact, you only need to make a few choices and you're done. The whole install from start to finish (assuming you're not a slow reader) is at most 2-3 minutes long, maybe as long as 5 minutes if you have a slow pen drive or a slow machine.
One other thing to note. When the installer gets done and you boot into the installed system, you'll find a "Install NimbleX" icon on the desktop. Don't panic about this. It's not something the developers missed, but is intentionally there so that you can install NimbleX to another device if you want to, even after you've installed your system.
Installed System
Boot time on the installed system is blazing fast. It's easily one of the fastest bootups I've seen in a while. I even tried to hinder or cripple it's boot time, and even on a dog slow pendrive or an old as dirt test machine, it still booted amazingly fast. The desktop and applications are also very fast.
The NimbleX KDE Desktop
(full image size: 178kB, screen resolution: 800x640 pixels)
One thing I was very curious of this time that I didn't test last time was booting across the network. Oddly enough, it works. Well, for the most part anyways. You can actually boot the machine over a 10/100 network from another machine, and it will run pretty darned good. One thing that helps to aid this is that NimbleX comes with six basic servers, including a pre-configured PXE boot server. That is how it is able to allow you to boot across the network. Just setup a dumb terminal with PXE boot, and away you go.
One thing to note though. You'll need to make sure that you have one unconfigured network card in order to turn the machine into a PXE boot server. If you have two nics, disable and remove the configuration of one, then leave the other for standard network access. If you don't need that, and would just like to use the machine as a PXE boot server, then all you'll need to do is have one nic card that you've removed the configuration on. It takes a little hacking to do that, but it's not a big deal if
you're adventurous enough.
The bright side to PXE booting is that you can have dumb terminals setup all over the house (or your office) running simple touch screen monitors and a small computer (Like the Linutop) with some kind of simple kiosk program. Doing that will allow for quite an interesting, yet simple use for NimbleX. It also has great applications for school or office or home or wherever, where you need a lot of machines all running the same configuration, but don't need or want to have HD's in them due to cost or security issues. It would also reduce the amount of system issues you'd have to deal with on a software level.
And if PXE isn't your thing, there's also five other servers to chose from, including a web, ftp, ssh, dns, and dhcp server. Configuring wireless is also pretty easy and painless. In fact, by itself NimbleX makes a great basic web surfers OS. You could setup your grandma with a computer running NimbleX and she could more or less login, connect to her internet (if she has dialup), and browse away, or get her mail.
For the power user there's also things like LinuxDC++, RSS feeds, IM's, SSH and more. VirtualBox is even included with the system, so if you want to emulate other distros or OS's, you can do that very easily. And for the paranoid, there's ClamAV antivirus and Guarddog firewall. Another interesting tool I found was the "Kshutdown" tool. It's available in any of the WM's and allows you to click it and shut down your machine. It sure beats doing it the NimbleX way.
For those wanting to add extra applications to NimbleX, you'll need to use Gslapt for the graphical interface, or slapt-get from the command line. Almost all advanced administrative functions have to be done via the command line. So if you want to add another user (and I very highly recommend you do, as the system runs as root by default) you'll need to do that from the command line.
Another thing that stunned me about NimbleX was its surprisingly small install footprint. After having worked with several distros recently that have anywhere from a standard 1.5gb install footprint, up to a mind blowing 9gb footprint, seeing that NimbleX only used a humble 372mb with all the bells and whistles was impressive, to say the least.
Also, there's something else I found while digging around in the installed system that may interest a lot of people. If you open up Firefox and click on the "Custom NimbleX" link, you'll be greeted by a website that allows you to actually build your own custom version of NimbleX. I kid you not. It's complete CD remastering right from a webpage. The site even tells you how big your ISO will be when you're done, and it changes as you make changes to the ISO configuration. When it's done it gives you a custom packaged, ready to use, build to order version of NimbleX 2008 for you
to use! It's rather nice if you ask me. :)
Conclusion
Overall I'm rather impressed with NimbleX 2008. It's got a little something for the minimalist, something for the new user, and something for the power user. The entire system is very clean, very stable, and exceptionally well done. I'd easily give this my two thumbs up as I really couldn't find much of anything to complain about. Admittedly the installer still needs some work. But aside from that, I'm very pleased with what NimbleX has to offer. For more information about this distribution, you can check out their homepage, their distrowatch page, or if you're ready to dive in, you can grab a copy of the installation ISO. Of if you're really adventurous, you can even make your own install cd exactly to your liking.
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| Miscellaneous News |
Mandriva's 10th Birthday, Fedora 9 Re-Spins, openSUSE PromoDVD, and Foxconn Crippled BIOS
 Mandriva quietly celebrated their 10th anniversary this past week. In May, they celebrated the 10th anniversary of the company in Paris at the Eiffel Tower, but this past week saw the 10th anniversary of their first release. On July 23, 1998, Mandrake 5.1 was released based on Red Hat 5.1 featuring KDE 1.0. Linux Weekly News has retained the original announcement for posterity here and Google has the original thread from fr.comp.os.linux here. As I look back I wonder how differently my life would have been without Mandrake Linux. So, it tugged at my heart strings a bit when I saw Gaël Duval wishing them a Happy Birthday. Happy Birthday Mandriva.
In other news, Mandriva announced a new partnership with Precedent Technologies developing a new low-cost desktop. With Intel Atom CPUs and Mandriva Linux preinstalled, they estimate retail prices to be 399.99 USD. Also, howsoftwareisbuilt.com published an interview with Mandriva developer Helio Chissini De Castro.
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 Speaking of Gaël Duval, he is continuing development on his newest project, the Ulteo family of online desktop services. The Online Desktop received updates on July 16, 2008 and last week brought a new Sirius stable and Virtual Desktop Beta3. Some experts believe that Software as a Service and Cloud computing are the future. What do you think?
Ulteo Online Desktop features popular applications
(full image size: 347kB, screen resolution: 1277x926 pixels)
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 The Fedora Project announced their ISO Re-Spins of Fedora 9. These include all updates released as of July 18th, 2008. The main issues addressed were Bug #445517 where Anaconda crashed during selecting packages and some Russian translation issues, and Bug #445974 where minstg2 install failed. The full changelog is available here, and download information is here. The full announcement is here.
In other Fedora news, the results of the recent FESCo election were posted last week. Bill Nottingham, Kevin Fenzi, Dennis Gilmore, Brian Pepple and David Woodhouse were elected to FESCo for a 2 release term. Jarod Wilson, Josh Boyer, Jon Stanley and Karsten Hopp were elected for a 1 release term as of July 24, 2008. The full announcement has further details on that. The first meeting under the new team was held July 25, 2008, all present except Dennis Gilmore. Brian Pepple was chosen to be chair of the committee. The full minutes of that meeting are here.
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 The FreeBSD Project recently held their core team elections as well, and announced their results last Monday. Murray Stokely posted, "Peter Wemm is rejoining the team after a 2 year hiatus, and Kris Kennaway is joining the team for the first time. The remaining 7 slots were filled with incumbents Wilko Bulte, Brooks Davis, Giorgos Keramidas, George V. Neville-Neil, Hiroki Sato, Murray Stokely, and Robert Watson". His full post here.
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 openSUSE received their 11.0 Promotional DVDs this past week. The installable PromoDVD contain both a KDE and GNOME live system. If you are planning an installfest, a LUG presentation, or something like that; the pertinent information is here.
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 Perhaps the biggest story last week concerned Foxconn motherboards that are (allegedly) deliberately crippled for Linux. A tech-savvy user at the Ubuntu Forums posted that the BIOS of his G33M-S contains different reference tables for various operating systems, and that the one for Linux "points to a badly written table that does not correspond to the board's ACPI implementation" causing "weird kernel errors, strange system freezing, no suspend or hibernate, and other problems." He goes on to say, "After looking through the disassembled BIOS for the last several hours, rebooting it, and tweaking it more, I'd say this is very intentional. I've found redundant checks to make sure it's really running on Windows, regardless what the OS tells it it is, and then of course fatal errors that will kernel panic FreeBSD or Linux, scattered all over the place." Apparently Foxconn has been known to be hostile toward Linux support for quite some time before this incident according to Phoronix.com.
However, Matthew Garrett, respected Linux developer, stated he sees nothing especially sinister in the code he's examined. "There's no evidence whatsoever that the BIOS is deliberately targeting Linux. I can't find any way in which the code Foxconn are shipping is worse than any other typical vendor. This entire controversy is entirely unjustified." It's reported that Foxconn plans to make a statement sometime today on the matter.
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| Released Last Week |
DragonFly BSD 2.0
Matthew Dillon announced the availability of DragonFly BSD 2.0: "2.0 is our eighth major DragonFly release. DragonFly's policy is to only commit bug fixes to release branches." Changes in this release include: the HAMMER filesystem featuring crash recovery on-mount (without fsck) and queueless incremental mirroring, numerous kernel changes like native fairq-queue implementation and native connection state recovery, various hardware changes like added drivers and better USB survivability, userland changes like blacklist for weak Debian-generated SSH keys and improved manual pages and documentation, a lot of contributed software like new versions of BIND, OpenSSH, tnftpd, and GCC. Fortran was removed from the base system, along with other old stuff like legacy device drivers. See the rather brief release announcement and the detailed 2.0 release notes for more information.
xPUD 0.7
Following version 0.6 just four days ago, a new version of xPUD was released today, boasting "same features, 20% smaller": "xPUD is a small and fast booting LiveUSB, usually boots into X within 15-seconds, and starts an easy-to-use UI as soon as possible. Being a Ubuntu derivative with APT/dpkg system, the rootfs is quite small: only 67MB of core image, including Ubuntu 8.04 compatible kernel, Xvesa as xserver, web browser (firefox), media player (mplayer) and input method (scim). This project is under heavy development, and we're looking forward to any kind of feedback, please visit http://xpud.org/ for more information." Read the release notes for more.
NimbleX 2008
Bogdan Radulescu announced the availability of the final version of NimbleX 2008, a Slackware-based mini distribution: "This version gets significant cleanups since NimbleX 2008RC, Bluetooth finally works OK, some improvements to the USB installer, significant changes on how NimbleX boots from remote locations (PXE & HTTP), several bug fixes, updates and several other things. I managed to make NimbleX a little slimmer and I also managed to squeeze in the latest VirtualBox so that people can run/test other OSs inside NimbleX. Partimage was added so you can easily clone disks and partitions with NimbleX thus resulting in some mass deployment functionality when users know their way around Linux. I guess here a small tutorial will be posted at some point..." Read the full release announcement for more information.
Ubuntu Muslim Edition 8.04.1
Ubuntu Muslim Edition (UbuntuME) 8.04.1, an Ubuntu-based distribution featuring Islamic software, a Quran study tool and a web content filtering utility, was released, in the form of not just an update but a full new DVD with tons of software: "The Ubuntu Muslim Edition team is proud to announce the release of UbuntuME 8.04.1. This release is only available as an installable DVD. Highlights: WebStrict (parental control tool) enabled by default (so as browsing the Internet is safe); Zekr 0.7.0 (Quran study tool) installed and configured to play Quran recitations; Minbar and Firefox "Pray Times" addon installed; Monajat (display Islamic prayers) Thwab (encyclopedia); UbuntuME artworks: usplash, login screen, Islamic wallpapers, theme etc." See the complete release announcement and release notes for more information.
BLAG Linux And GNU 90001
Jeff Moe announced a bug fix release of BLAG Linux And GNU labeled as 90001, a single-CD desktop distribution based on Fedora: "It comes on a single CD (684 megs), is easily installed, and user friendly. This release follows quickly on the heels of BLAG 90000, as there were a few annoying issues with that, some of which have been sorted, such as some broken dependencies. A number of packages have been added to the CD, some of which appeared in earlier blag releases, such as: bittorrent, freej, gcc, gqview, gthumb, thunderbird, vnc-server, xchat. The CD has 97 package updates including a new kernel-libre-2.6.25.10-86.fc9.1, firefox 3.0.1, gnome/gtk2/nautilus packages, pidgin, xorg and more... Known issues with this release: Use yum instead of apt, or uncomment GPG line in /etc/apt/apt.conf (or install those keys); Automajick kickstart installs are not currently available; On some installs you have to hit ctrl-alt-f7 after firstboot when you add a user; this is only needed the first time." Read the complete release announcement for further details.
IPCop 1.4.20
A new version of IPCop, a user-friendly firewall distribution geared towards home and SOHO users, was released: "Update is split into two parts because of a kernel update to accommodate free space limitation. 1.4.19 contains some packages updates, most notably a dnsmasq update to be immune on recent dns advisory. 1.4.20 installs the second part of the kernel update and configure the new kernel. 1.4.19 could be installed separately from 1.4.20. A reboot is not needed after 1.4.19 installation... Changes summary: Upgrade openssh to 4.7p1; Include lzo binary so, it will match openssl version if openssl is updated; Update dnsmasq to 2.45; Update tzdata to 2008d; Update pcre from 7.4 to 7.7; Update apache to 1.3.41..." Read the detailed release notes for more.
Ulteo Applications System
Gaël Duval announced the availability of Ulteo Application System, code name "Sirius" Stable: "The Ulteo Application System is a FREE installable version of Ulteo, that ships with hundreds applications and innovative features that include: Global Ulteo authentication; Automatic data backup/synchronization to/from the Ulteo Online Desktop; "My Digital Life" panel to organize your digital life easier and better; Automatic system and application incremental upgrade; Very fast to install, very easy to use." "Sirius" Stable is an installable liveCD that offers a Windows alternative; it comes with a lot of applications by default, including Firefox 2.0 and OpenOffice.org 2.3. Learn more here.
Also announced is Ulteo Virtual Desktop Beta3: "It allows you to use the best Linux applications on the Windows(TM) operating system. It's been designed for individuals and corporate users who want to have Linux and Windows applications together on the same desktop without the hassles of dual booting or virtualization. It already got great feedback from the IT press during the past three months. If you would enjoy Ulteo Virtual Desktop on a preloaded USB key that wouldn't require any installation, please let us know!" Learn more here.
Foresight Linux 2.0.4
Paul Cutler announced the release of Foresight Linux 2.0.4, an rPath-based distribution showcasing the latest GNOME technologies: "The Foresight project is excited to announce the latest release of Foresight, the Foresight GNOME Edition 2.0.4. This release features a brand new theme, and a number of minor updates and bug fixes, notably a problem when trying to install on certain RAID setups. This latest version also introduces the Foresight GNOME Lite Edition. For the first time, Foresight is available for installation on one CD, and features Foresight's lightning fast tar-based installer. This edition does not include OpenOffice.org and is English only to reduce installation size. Users who choose to install the Foresight GNOME Lite Edition can easily upgrade to the full version." Read the full release announcement and release notes for further details.
Parted Magic 3.0
Patrick Verner announced the 3.0 release of Parted Magic, a specialist live CD distribution designed to facilitate hard disk management tasks: "This new release of Parted Magic has the most aggressive changelog of any release to date. Almost everything has been updated and redesigned while doing our best to maintain the same user interface. The most significant changes are the additions of HAL and dbus, new Xorg server, basic wireless detection, FireFTP, udpcast, Linux-2.6.26, and many other updated and new programs. Parted Magic also has a new GRUB version of the iso and the USB version is GRUB-ready. People have been asking for a "Save Session" function and we added it." Visit the project's news page and check out the latest changelog for a complete list of fixes and package updates.
Devil-Linux 1.2.15
Heiko Zuerker announced the release of Devil-Linux 1.2.15, a live firewall and server oriented distribution. "Devil-Linux 1.2.15 is available for download. The changes include lots of program and security updates. See the Changelog for details." Among the changes are: ImageMagick can now correctly identify file types again; added arping tool; added dev86 to build environment; added hotfix to allow ntop links against net-snmp; added missing LSI fusion scsi drivers to initial ramdisk; corrected dhcp compile; corrected motion compile; downgraded iptables to 1.3.7 (due to missing extensions, i.e. connlimit, time and others); increased compatibility of strongswan for windows and cisco clients. Read the brief release announcement and the changelog for more information.
GoblinX Premium 2008.2
Flavio Pereira de Oliveira today announced the availability of GoblinX Premium 2008.2, a Slackware-based desktop distribution and live CD: "Main upgrades since last stable release: Upgraded all packages. Upgraded Kernel (2.6.24.3), AuFS, Linux live and Squashfs. Added Bookmarks to GoblinX Panel. Added extra folders to be used as package repository. Added media package repository to Slapt-getrc. Added package upgrade check to Xfce panel with Xfce4-smartpm-plugin. Added interface to build module with Slapt-get help. Added initrd.img to be used by Suspend/Hibernate after install. Added Isolinux option to not load customization during boot..." Visit the project's news page to read the full announcement.
Absolute Linux 12.1.05
Paul Sherman announced the release of Absolute Linux 12.1.05, a light-weight, Slackware-based distribution featuring the IceWM window manager: "Big change is with the installer, "Autoinstall" option that takes care of drive partitioning along with the Lilo setup, making install much easier for new-comers to Linux and/or text-based installation. The usual options for installation are also still available. Documentation (HTML instructions for the install) have been updated both online in the ZIP that contains the iso. Here's the changelog: Redesigned installer to include an "autoinstall" option; Corrected internal "name" of links2.desktop file; absgamma.py (utility to adjust gamma of monitor) updated; Java updated to jre-6u7; gnome-icon-theme added for compatibility with some apps; Svgpage moved to CD2." Check the release announcement, changelog, and the package list for more info.
Debian GNU/Linux 4.0r4
The fourth update to Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 is available: "The Debian project is pleased to announce the fourth update of its stable distribution Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 (codename etch). In addition to correcting several security problems and a few serious defects in the stable release, for the first time in Debian's history an update for a stable distribution also adds support for newer hardware by giving users the option to install newer drivers. Existing Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 installation CDs and DVDs can continue to be used to install this update. After installation, upgrading via an up-to-date Debian mirror will cause any out of date packages to be updated. However, users of the network-console installation method are strongly encouraged to update their media, see the "Debian Installer" portion of this announcement for more information. Those who install updates frequently from security.debian.org won't have to update many packages and most updates from security.debian.org are included in this update." Read the rest of the release announcement for a detailed list of all changes.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Mini Review |
Parted Magic 3.0
This weekend I booted Parted Magic 3.0 to grab a screenshot for this week's Distrowatch Weekly and it was so neato, I thought maybe I'd share a bit about it. The name implies that it's a great tool for partitioning drives and with GParted, it is. But I guess I was just surprised to find a lot more.
It comes in a 44MB zip file and when uncompressed, it is either a 45MB ISO or approximately a 45MB directory of files for a USB stick (depending upon which you've downloaded). So, it's small. Now, I didn't have much luck with the USB method even though I followed the directions to a "T." However, the regular ISO burned and booted just fine.
It boots up into a basic Xfce 4 desktop either under Xorg or Xvesa. Its Xorg couldn't seem to do much more than 800x600 with my on-board NVIDIA chip and cheap VGA monitor I was using, but under Xvesa I could get 1280x1024. Parted Magic comes with X configuration tools in case you run into similar issues. Interestingly, it did boot my HP Pavilion laptop in its optimum resolution of 1280x800 under Xorg with similar graphics chip. I suppose it just didn't like that cheap old monitor.
Parted Magic comes with Conky configured and running on the desktop with lots of handy information. There is no main menu, but on the panel are several smaller categorized menus. In the Networking menu Firefox 3.0.1, XChat, GRSync, and lftp are found. Also included is a "Start Network." Since the internet connection isn't brought up at boot, you'll probably need that.
There is a help menu with some links to various parts of the Parted Magic website such as for the Changelog, list of programs, and the Parted Magic Documentation. Another nice touch in this menu is a list of Bash Key Combinations.
Parted Magic's Main Purpose - GParted in action
(full image size: 777kB, screen resolution: 1200x1024 pixels)
Then there is the Utility menu full of great tools. Some of these include Xfburn, Xarchiver, ISO Master, Partition Image (backup or restore), a couple of tools for trying to rescue lost data, a tool to make a LiveUSB of Parted Magic (that does indeed work), and more. Some other stand alone panel buttons are for screenshots, a terminal, and GParted.
I tested GParted on several filetypes I rarely even think about. These include JFS, XFS, NTFS, and Reiser4. It worked fine, so these in addition to the more commonly used are supported. The resulting partitions were readable as such from an actual install.
Then there's the Quit button. From it you can reboot, exit X, or shutdown. All in all I thought it was pretty cool. It's something every distro tester (or computer user for that matter) should have around their workstation for those occasional slips of the mouse and it'd be a handy way to partition those new drives or do backups of your main system that work better if not mounted. 45MB. There's always room for Parted Magic!
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| Reviewed Last Week |
Along with the in-depth review here this morning by Steve, Softpedia and the Red Devil gave NimbleX 2008 a test drive last week as well. Caitlyn Martin looked at an update to one of her long time favorites and Ericsbinaryworld took Puppy Linux 4.0 for a little spin.
* NimbleX has always been impressive. The main advantage is its amazing speed. Softpedia gives a complete introduction to all the software and features, but they were most impressed by the amount of graphical environments included in the 200 MB download. They said, And here is the strong point of NimbleX 2008, that it uses no more than 7 (seven) desktops/window managers in 200 MB! Amazing, isn't it? In conclusion, NimbleX works very well, contains a lot of useful applications and window managers (desktops) for all tastes... and that's the most important thing.
* * * * *
* Red Devil's Tech blog said, NimbleX runs beautifully on my Dell laptop in live CD mode - my Intel/Pro wireless NIC was automatically detected and configured, requiring just my ESSID and encryption key to get me online via Wireless Assistant. Sound was working, the resolution was almost correct - 1280x768 instead of 1280x800 - my touchpad worked fine, USB memory sticks were automounted, and I had a battery icon in the panel accurately reporting my power. [But...]
* * * * *
* VectorLinux is a very capable system with nice looks and lots of useful applications. I've always like it. Ms. Martin examined 5.9 SOHO with a fine tooth comb and found a few issues, but in the end she admits it's still a favorite. She concludes: Vector Linux 5.9 SOHO isn't free as in free of cost but the price is modest and there are no restrictions on use. It is probably worth the price of admission for those who know and like Vector Linux already and for anyone who is looking for a Linux distribution that is optimized for performance and who doesn't mind an occasional foray to the command line. Despite the caveats I've raised Vector Linux remains one of my favorite distributions for the desktop. SOHO is the flavor of Vector Linux that has the most to offer in terms of ready to go software for those who like KDE for their desktop environment.
* * * * *
* Puppy is one of my favorite little distros because it packs so much into such a tiny package. And it works so well... for me. Eric stated, Once I finally got it working, I was surprised at how well it worked with my wide screen monitor. They don't have nice, glitzy GUIs. But if the newbie didn't care or if it was their only choice because someone donated an old clunker to them, I think Puppy Linux would serve them well. I like Puppy Linux and I think they continue to create a good lightweight distro with lots of programs.
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Ladislav is still on his vacation this week and I'm still filling in. Again, if you'd like to share any good distro news with me and the Distrowatch Weekly readers in the next couple of weeks, you may email me at srlinuxx at gmail dot com. I want to thank Steven for the wonderful review and Dr. W T Zhu for his invaluable assistance.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next installment will be published on Monday, 04 August 2008.
Thanks,
Susan Linton
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • NibmleX (by Pig_Pen on 2008-07-28 09:09:04 GMT from United States)
sounds nice, of course NimbleX has a good daddy (Slackware) and most all of Slackware's children make nice distros, I find Zenwalk-Core to be to be my favorite for building a custom system (especially on system's with SATA drives)...
as far as Foxconn goes i will NEVER buy a Foxconn motherboard and yes i build my own PCs, I wonder if Mathew Garrett was paid off by Foxconn to speak in their defense, no self respecting developer would say that after the evidence was presented as plainly seen in disassembled BIOS tables, = you hear that Foxconn and other hardware manufacturers? you better get your act together because your negligence (and maliciousness) will be found out and it WILL come back to bite you...
2 • KDE 4.1 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 09:14:29 GMT from Germany)
Don't forget that KDE 4.1 will be released on Tuesday! :-)
3 • Why NimbleX sucks (by Béranger on 2008-07-28 09:28:01 GMT from Romania)
1. Because they only offer ISO files, which means: no updated packages, and, most importantly, no source packages!
2. Because Softpedia CENSORED my comment stating that NimbleX doesn't offer the source packages.
4 • With due respect to Nimblex, Slax is better in some aspects (by BhaKi on 2008-07-28 09:35:36 GMT from India)
Hi Steven Lake, I think you have been lavish in praise of Nimblex. While it is certainly a great live distro, you should have atleast mentioned once in the article that Nimblex is based on Slax. You have commented that Nimblex is the most complete live distro so far. I must point out that "completeness" means different things to different people. For instance, Slax offers basic development tools including gcc suite and several developement libraries and headers. Try typing "gcc hello.c" in Nimblex. That said, Nimblex provides some apps (e.g. Linuxdc++), which are not present in Slax.
It's a nice review, though. You should have tried Slax in addition to Nimblex. It has all the technical features of Nimblex. After all, it's the parent distro of Nimblex.
5 • ath9k - Atheros unveils free Linux driver for its 802.11n devices (by Observing good news! on 2008-07-28 09:41:43 GMT from Australia)
ath9k - Atheros unveils free Linux driver for its 802.11n devices
We are pleased to announce Atheros has released ath9k to the community. This driver is aimed at inclusion to the Linux kernel and supports all Atheros IEEE 802.11n devices. This represents a major shift in terms of support from Atheros with respect to Linux. The ath9k driver comes shortly after Atheros hired two key Linux wireless developers -- Luis Rodriguez and Jouni Malinen.
http://madwifi.org/wiki
ath9k is a completely FOSS wireless driver for Atheros IEEE 802.11n WLAN based chipsets.
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ath9k
6 • Re. 3 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 09:49:23 GMT from United States)
"2. Because Softpedia CENSORED my comment stating that NimbleX doesn't offer the source packages."
Good for you.
I admit, I'm getting flat-out tired of hearing your crying about some random distro "not providing sources" every few weeks. Maybe DistroWatch can censor it too?
Alright, I am being sarcastic on the censoring part, but seriously--can you bring anything into the discussion other than the usual GPL/source violations whining and flame wars? :|
7 • KDE 4.1 - hopefully doesn't suck that much (by Eric Yeoh on 2008-07-28 09:49:40 GMT from Malaysia)
So far KDE 4.0x has been the greatest disservice to the KDE project. Yeah I know it is not meant to be "usable" and all that, but I am of the opinion that they should at least tagged it as experimental or something. So far, only OpenSUSE managed to make KDE 4 usable. Kubuntu and Fedora's KDE 4 releases are really bad jokes.
I am sorry if I offended anyone. I realised much effort has been put in kind and talented people. KDE 3.5x may not have as much bells and whistles as 4.0x but it is something that works.
Here's hoping KDE 4.1 will at least be usable. Yeah I know, there are among you out there who has been running 4.0x for since it's launch and so forth, good for you. I still find it sucky.
8 • I also had loads of trouble with Foxconn motherboards (by Jim on 2008-07-28 10:08:49 GMT from Hong Kong)
I am in agreement with the previous comments on Foxconn motherboards.
The name says it pretty well..........it is a con!
In one case I had to take a Foxconn motherboard back for repairs twice under guarantee. Obviously the quality control in China these days where the motherboards are assembled is way under par. Choose carefully when you are buying your next motherboard or get burnt!
9 • Re #7 (by Simon on 2008-07-28 10:17:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hey, upgraded to Fedora 9 when it came out with KDE 4.0.something on my spare machine and to be fair things were a bit shaky (although they got better with successive 4.0.x releases. But I switched to the 4.1 betas as soon as they were available and at that stage they were better already (for me). I'm now on 4.1 RCs of Fedora 9 and they are pretty good, no real stability issues (occasionally I can crash plasma on log out) and pretty much on a par with 3.5 functionality-wise (I'm missing a few things like proper ark integration) and much nicer and shiner in my view. Put it this way - I didn't upgrade my main machine to 4.0.x but now have 4.1rc rather than 3.5 because, for me, it is better. Of course, your mileage may vary but I believe by 4.2 KDE4 will be the better choice over 3.5 for everyone and by 4.1 final/during 4.1.x for most people
10 • Atheros/VIA, Cloud/SaaS and KDE 4.1 (by Dan MacDonald on 2008-07-28 10:35:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
As #6 has already mentioned, one of the major open source stories of the last week was Atheros releasing some Linux friendly drivers. Another pretty significant story was VIA releasing hundreds of pages of docs for a few of their products in order to foster improved FOSS support. These events have been occurring more and more frequently recently and hopefully this trend is set to continue as it will be greatly beneficial for the open source movement.
You asked for comment on the whole cloud computing hype bubble (or hype cloud, as it is) and hype is all it is far as I'm concerned. It MAY be of interest to the enterprise and certain types of business deployment but I'd certainly want to keep my business well away from even considering using a cloud/SaaS model. The only apps that I would ever consider running under a browser or running non-locally are those that REQUIRE an internet connection ie email client or FTP client. Saying this, googlemail isn't what it used to be and I frequently get disconnected or can't log in these days. As far as application speed, response, reliability and security the cloud model stinks. Why should I want to use a web-based word processor when we have OOo writer and super-cheap hardware and risk not being able to do anything or having to work at snails-pace when connection problems inevitably raise their ugly head? Cloud computing? Vapour indeed - absolute marketing gimmickry.
I'm not quite sure last time I tried KDE 4- it was either 4.0 or one of the .0 beta/RC releases but it was an absolute appalling mess and could barely have been considered alpha IMO. So it was with very low expectations I installed the latest 4.1 RC under Hardy yesterday- what a nice surprise I had! The KDE devs have lived up to their promises and 4.1 is a very nice looking, usable desktop with some cool features and many more to come. I have a weird problem with compiz/GNOME under fglrx on Hardy in that when I turn it on I can't left click- didn't used to happen and maybe it'd go if I did a re-install but I'm not that bothered now as I only ever really used the zoom function in compiz and kwin has a similar feature under its desktop effects which works just fine.
On the down side, running KDE4.1 seems to consume about 200MB more RAM than running the latest GNOME desktop under Hardy. Whatever happened to all these promises of KDE4 being super-lightweight, not requiring as much resources as KDE 3.x/GNOME? I would presume there's plenty of optimisations they can do yet, or at least I hope they'll be able to slim down its memory requirements. The other problem I've had is konq is still very crash prone but is in a much, much better state than last time I tried it under 4.0 as it was totally unusable then.
A few days ago I thought KDE was done for but now I'm quite excited to see where 4.1+ is going to take the Linux desktop. This is obviously the most exciting year yet for free software!
11 • NimbleX & others (by Stodgy on 2008-07-28 10:36:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
No doubt, Radulescu is THE king at present, with his incredible innovations, not least Web-selected content. His latest incarnation is impressive. However, if you want an impressively fast installer with minimal operator interaction, it's difficult to beat the one in the latest SliTaz(cooking) - just don't blink. One of my favourites (which had retained the traditional Slackware textual installer) is Absolute. I complained about their failure to adopt better installers as has been achieved by other Slack-based distro and within a week or two, we saw their announcement on DW. Well done guys. Surprising, also, not to see mention of the latest Ultima 8.4 - if you want a competent, codec-rich KDE desktop, this one is worthy.
12 • No subject (by morgan on 2008-07-28 10:49:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
The whole idea of cloud computing does not appeal to me at all.
The users will lose control of their systems they previously had - let alone the privacy/security aspect of having your personal information on someone elses server...
Also - 1 more thing IPCOP 1.4.21 was released the day after 1.4.20 ...
13 • boycott Foxconn (by Dante on 2008-07-28 11:17:01 GMT from Netherlands)
I heard something like this before with the motherboards of Foxconn. I am gonna make sure I am NOT buying their crap if they (allegedly) deliberate cripple linux installations. Eventually they are going to miss out...
regards,
Dante
14 • RE 6 (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-28 11:30:57 GMT from France)
> "but seriously--can you bring anything into the discussion other than the usual GPL/source violations whining and flame wars?"
Maybe do you think this is not important? Sorry to disappoint you but it IS a problem.
Open source is about sources and a distro which violates GPL, sorry "Anonymous" but again it's a problem!
15 • Ulteo (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 11:46:27 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I have been trying Ulteo as a live-cd, and was surprised it sports a very old kernel (2.6.17), on which many newer hardware doesn't work (such as my sound & display...)
Anyway, I am not against the idea, but the 1st stable version should have been based on a kernel at least higher than 2.6.22 or 2.6.24...
16 • PARDUS (by Poindexter on 2008-07-28 12:04:54 GMT from Australia)
Finally found a distribution that works OOB on my toshiba Satellite M110 (tried PCLOS and Mint). Purists may not like Non Free stuff,
17 • Nimblex 2008 & Ulteo (by Dr.Saleem Khan on 2008-07-28 12:08:59 GMT from Pakistan)
This distribution is indeed worth "a one time try" because I like trimmed and customizable distributions. This is an ultimate power and freedom which any distribution can offer to an end user.
I have used Nimblex for some time and I was happy with it except one major complaint.
Somehow the Nimblex`s developer is extremly conscious about the size of Nimblex and he is not willing to add any available stable & working HD installer to it in the fear that the size of Nimblex should not go beyond 200mb. I am not just guessing out this fear, I had an IRC discussion with him regarding the installer one year back and he "promised" that sooner we are going to get a working HD installer.
And what we got is a weird installer which did some miserable job on my system when I tried installing Nimblex 2008 RC . It amost formatted my whole system drives despite the fact that I asked it to install it on a traget drive only.
Now I read Ref 3 • Why NimbleX sucks (by Béranger ) that Nimblex offers no updated packages.Does that mean we have to live with obsolete packages and no security packages if somehow we did manage to install Nimblex 2008 to HD? I thought Nimblex uses the updates and packages from Salckware.
These two reasons are quite valid to keep me away from Nimblex.
A smaller and customizable distribution is what I really prefer and PCLinuxOS
Minime is the one that gives me everything.
Gaël Duval`s Ulteo Application System "Sirius" stable was another excitement of this week that died unexpectedly in the mid. I installed it to HD and everything was smoothly going except the Ulteo`s repositries which were dead and would refuse to reload and update on "sudo apt-get update" . I tried to find out why the repos are dead but since there is no?? working IRC room for Ulteo I could not find any clue for this repos failure. May be some other day with Ulteo and it might work for me.
Thanks for another exciting DW.
18 • Cuil Linux Links (by CombatWombat on 2008-07-28 12:14:49 GMT from New Zealand)
New search engine, cuil.com, produces an interesting categories menu when you search for Distrowatch; it includes most of the main Linux distros, and a lot of little ones. The funny thing is I could not get it to show me a link for Ubuntu proper :-D
Oh well... a work in progress...
19 • PARDUS 2 (by Poindexter on 2008-07-28 12:16:33 GMT from Australia)
Re: 16
Forgot to thank Distrowatch for pointing me towards this easy, user friendly, newbie OS.
20 • Free Cloud (by Lobster on 2008-07-28 12:28:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Interesting developments and comments guys.
Cloud computing has two phases. Marketing: we provide a service and you lease it from us and pay as much as we can get out of you . . .
And phase two. Rain Cloud, a free service initially sponsored by ads and finally free for all - public service computing.
Software leasing is a way of selling you software you already have.
However there is software that depends on data collection, for example Mobile Internet Devices will need mapping and other info changing updates. The challenge for the FOSS teams is to use people to power and update the info.
For example people using their phone cameras to create updates to GPS mapping systems.
Bandwidth and data storage too, need ways to enable p2p technologies.
21 • Etch and a half (by Darkman on 2008-07-28 12:34:01 GMT from United States)
I commend the Debian development team for the latest update to Etch. What a superb effort! Thank you.
22 • Upcoming releases (by Pumpino on 2008-07-28 12:37:55 GMT from Australia)
Just a small correction for the upcoming releases section. Fedora 10 alpha is to be released on 5th August, not 29th July. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule
23 • RE 15 A very simple solution to workaround the kernel age (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 13:15:05 GMT from France)
You "(were)trying Ulteo as a live-cd, and (were)was surprised it sports a very old kernel "
As some new fancy hardware might not be detected, you can ask yourself
a) what will be the price of this new HW within 2 months...
b) whether it would not be wiser to switch to Windows, as , if new hardware recognition is a priority, W$ is better supported and Ulteo was aware of that. Just look at their release announcement, which still exists on DW home page:
"Virtual Desktop Beta3: "It allows you to use the best Linux applications on the Windows(TM) operating system."
There fore, you will have only the best GNUlinuxpplications running on a blasphemy OS....
As for a kernel being too old, time to detect bugs (and then, to correct them) may be more than one year..... If one looks for software without too many, not yet detected, bugs, one must consider newer softs are .... too young..
24 • Foxconn (by Mike on 2008-07-28 13:17:50 GMT from United States)
If foxconn truly did this intentionally, just remember something: where there is one cockroach, there are many more. Lets wait and hear what they have to say about it. On the surface, it looks bad for them.
25 • Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 13:57:01 GMT from Canada)
... so KDM is able to select between different operating system ... ??????
;-)
26 • KDE 4.1 is already in ArchLinux (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 14:02:17 GMT from Canada)
and very stable/usable. libkde3 and some kde3 applications are still availlable
27 • BIOS trickery (by davemc on 2008-07-28 14:03:48 GMT from United States)
FoxCon is certainly not the only manufacturer to release a faulty BIOS - intentional or otherwise. That the BIOS for that board is obviously buggered is one thing, but proving that it was malicious and intentional, well, good luck with that! People usually hire attorneys for that sort of thing and follow it up with multi-million $$$ lawsuits for things like breach of contract, fraud, etc.. Then be sure the case also goes to criminal court as well so those responsible can spend some pleasant time with big Brutis in prison!
28 • re:23 (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 14:03:59 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Rien à voir avec le prix du matos... Hors-sujet... Il se trouve tout simplement que du matériel neuf aujourd'hui n'est pas supporté par un vieux kernel... La solution est relativement simple: utiliser une distro qui offre un kernel plus adapté. et il y en a plein. Bien sur, pour ceux qui veulent, Windows reste une solution simple, mais je suis un amateur de Linux...
Enfin, tout ça pour dire qu'Ulteo ne me semble pas encore bien prêt, mais j'imagine que tout se fait par étape, et qu'il ne faut pas décourager Gaël...
29 • Qu 14 : why are Open Source sources so important (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 14:04:58 GMT from France)
"Open source is about sources and a distro which violates GPL(...) but again it's a problem!"
* Is it a formal problem, almost a superficial lapalissade?
* Is it a matter of respect towards the many authors of good quality software who choose this license ? (and the distributors act only as *algebrically* added go-betweens between the authors and the downloaders/sometimes_even_users)
* Is it a matter of preservation (if the founder dies/gets richer, and one wishes to rebuild (and slightly modify) his distro, it might be difficult without sources : this what I explain when I try to force my colleagues to keep my sources, though I know binaries will be enough....)
Or are there other (rational, I hope) reasons (not puns)?
30 • Qu 28 La nouveauté du matériel est elle une finalité (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 14:12:36 GMT from France)
dans ce bas monde? Alors, on peut accepter d'avoir des versions trop récentes de noyaux Linux (elles ne sont pas complétement testées, professionnellement, personne n'en voudrait pour une tâche liée à la sécurité, voire au confort).
Quand au ports des *meilleures* applications du GNU sous Windows, ceci est très bien fait depuis un siècle... et satisfait une majorité écrasante (argument très utilisé dans les fora de "linuxiens" ) des utilisateurs (et dénier au noyau Linux l'obligation d'être de qualité minimale incite à "piss with the wind" , par souci de conformisme, et à choisir l'affreux (comme les "linuxiens" aiment bien le réciter, de façon plus rituelle que rationnelle) Windows
31 • @ All those against KDE 4 (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-07-28 14:25:46 GMT from Pakistan)
I have found it is very hard to judge the real quality of even the KDE 4.1s releases, let alone the 4.0.x. Quite often, it depends on which distro managed to make it usable...
SUSE has done magic, while my experience with Kubuntu KDE 4 was pathetic (http://scientechie.blogspot.com)
32 • TALENT ON LOAN FROM GOD (by Terlmann on 2008-07-28 15:03:47 GMT from United States)
Steven Lake: You sir, are a hairbrained simpleton.
"Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. You have a choice of E16 (enlightenment), EDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, KDE, Openbox, and TWM."
Graphical User Environments DO NOT CONSTITUTE INDIVIDUAL OPERATING SYSTEMS. Secondly... A complete distro must contain an updating solution better than ISO's, and source packages for all software included. NimbleX is not complete in any way shape or form.
Thirdly... you say it booted up quickly, but you fail to say how quickly. In the opinion of some people, Windows Vista boots up "quickly". That's not good enough sir, I demand more!.
33 • Re:30, c'est un cas d'école... (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 15:25:57 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Oui, c'est un cas d'école: Ta carte mère est morte, il te faut aller au magasin pour en racheter une autre... Le type de mémoire ram et de processeur que tu avais n'existe plus, il te faut donc aussi racheter ces 2 dispositifs. Et une fois sur place, tu craques pour une carte-vidéo "premier prix", Nvidia par exemple...
Ce n'a rien à voir avec une finalité, sinon une situation, un impondérable, une obligation.
-Que faire ?
-Aller sur Ebay pour acheter du matériel obsolète ?
-Impossible pour moi, je ne possède toujours pas de carte de crédit, et je vis loin des circuits de distributions traditionnels, dans un pays "en voie de développement"...
-Alors quoi ?
-WinXP avec des logiciels FLOSS ?
-Oui, je l'ai déjà sur une autre partition, au cas ou... Mais c'est plus lent, et surtout beaucoup moins "amusant"... Oui, je te l'avoue, je suis un amateur des logiciels libres, et jusqu'à présent je trouve qu'ils sont plus pratiques à utiliser... Cela ne veux pas dire que je n'installe pas WinXP pour les clients, mais pour moi, je préfère quelque chose basé sur Debian...
Voilà un peu mes impressions...
34 • The Foxconn Situation (by Duhnonymous on 2008-07-28 15:43:50 GMT from United States)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/251338
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456352
There's still a lot of discussion, so I wouldn't say the issue is resolved.
35 • RE 29 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 16:02:44 GMT from France)
> "Or are there other (rational, I hope) reasons (not puns)?"
Perhaps it's because I misunderstood you (sometimes my english "me joue des tours" ;-) ) but would you suggest that we don't care about violate the GPL? Hmm if so, you have a "special" mentality...
Then maybe we should abolish them?
As said the last week, "Free/Libre Open Sources Software is about the SOURCES!" OK?
First it's the respect of the licence (and of users and the work from others.......) that you use....
36 • No subject (by Frank on 2008-07-28 16:02:49 GMT from United States)
RE 6
GPL exist for a reason, at least some one is cares about it.
and what you do attack people who defends it, who is next in you list? Richard Stallman?
congratulations to Beranger and all the others who defend it.
37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by drizake on 2008-07-28 16:04:02 GMT from United States)
Hello. I'm looking for a good lightweight Linux distro to run on an older PC (PIII, 128 or 256 MB of RAM). My preference is Debian based using apt-get and as much out of the box multimedia functionality as possible (MP3, Flash, etc.). I'm helping a guy at work with an old PC he got a hold of and he's never used Linux before. I tried the XFCE version of Mint (my favorite), but it was too heavy for this old machine. Any recommendations?
38 • Foxconn Fiasco (by Verndog on 2008-07-28 16:04:30 GMT from United States)
I was enjoying reading this weeks DWW until I got completely sidetracked with that Fox-con job. I foolishly started reading the many links. An hour later I'm back here!
There's one thing to say for sure. Linux has some very vocal enthusiasts. I think Foxconn will likely double check their Linux references in the BIOS from now on.
Whether this was intentional or not, it sure brought attention to Foxconn and a PR nightmare to boot! (no pun intended)
39 • BIOS (by scribe63 on 2008-07-28 16:04:53 GMT from United States)
Recently i have ran into issues related either to the BIOS or Harddisk when booting multiple operating systems on a single PC using mobile racks.
Motherboards:
ASUS P4PE
ASRock P4COMBO
They will boot windows xp with no problem, but with linux OS's (Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, CentOS, Debian) it becomes really troublesome, to the point some man or may not boot by chance.
I could be using and OS today, and if i take out the rack and use another OS in another rack, it may not boot. The GRUB on the MBR is not recognized at all.
So these days i stick with one OS Debian etch
Still i am not sure if this is a BIOS or Harddisk issue.
Anyone else experience this issue.
40 • Pulse Audio issues / Different Distros (by Whitt Madden on 2008-07-28 16:22:30 GMT from United States)
The latest release of Ubuntu has really disappointed me with their implementation of Pulse Audio. This may not be an issue for all, but for me if I am listening to music, and my wife wants to switch over to her side to check her email, the music pauses instead of continuing to play. Whenever I would switch back over to my side the music would either resume, or lock up the system causing me to reboot. Linux Mint carries this same Ubuntu 'feature'. However after being tired of random unexplained lockups with the newest Ubuntu release, I decided to switch over to openSuSe 11. I have not had any issues with Pulse Audio under openSuSe, in fact I haven't had any lockups or reboots whatsoever. I know that they get a lot of flack over their deal with MS, but I truly feel that they have created a great distro with 11.
On a side note:
I am very curious about Ulteo and I hope that we will see a review of this sometime in the near future.
41 • Cloud Model (by cadash on 2008-07-28 16:33:58 GMT from Argentina)
I think the main advantage of this model is that it allows you to use many computers and be able to access the latest changes to your files in all of them. However, I dont think it is meant to replace the way you currently use your coputer at the present with all the files stored locally. This way, whan you are on, lets say your work machine, you save all the files you made locally but also save them remotely. Then when you go back home and are able to access the latest version of each file and then if by some reason to make a travel you will be able to access all your work for a remote place. Although I work in an office, I can also do my work form anywhere as long as I have Internet access so this model makes a lot of sense to me. To me the idea is not to replace the way you work with computers but to add yet more options and a decentralized way to handle your work, being security issues the only concern....
42 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 17:27:22 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I would recommend a netinst of Debian (either Stable or Testing... whatever suits you) then choose Fluxbox, PCManFM, Leafpad, Aterm, Opera, Emesene and Exaile, ePDFview... That should fit the bill...
Here's a good guide: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/432
But do your own thing according to what you like... (you could use OpenBox or IceWM instead of Fluxbox, but I just enjoy Fluxbox better...)
Here's also a great Fluxbox wiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fluxbox
43 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (bis) (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 17:31:38 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Here's a post from my blog about it: http://free-las-terrenas.blogspot.com/2008/05/arch-like-debian-testing.html
44 • RE 42, 43... (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-28 18:02:15 GMT from France)
> "I would recommend a netinst of Debian (either Stable or Testing... whatever suits you) then choose Fluxbox, PCManFM, Leafpad, Aterm, Opera, Emesene and Exaile, ePDFview... That should fit the bill..."
Yes but in place of Aterm you can also use ROXTerm or LXTerminal (from the LXDE project) or Sakura...
> "you could use OpenBox or IceWM instead of Fluxbox"
Yes, OpenBox/LXDE... :-D
45 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (bis, bis) (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 18:03:05 GMT from Dominican Republic)
As of playing mp3's, installing Picasa, Flash, Opera, Skype, and codecs, here's my sources.list:
(you need to open a terminal, log in as toot, edit (with Leafpad or Gedit) /etc/apt/sources.list)
-My sources.list:
http://free-las-terrenas.blogspot.com/
46 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by drizake on 2008-07-28 18:24:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks, Caraibes! I'll try it out when I get home. :)
47 • RE: 32, Is This Personal? What did Steve do to you? (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-07-28 18:24:34 GMT from United States)
"TALENT ON LOAN FROM GOD", What kind of stupid statement is that? You are upset because he called window managers operating systems. Trust me that was just a slight slip. Everything else you stated is just your personal opinion. Download the thing and try it out and see how fast it boots, and then write your own review. If you have a problem with the distro then take it up with NimbleX. Just because a person writes a review and makes a slight mistake does not give you the right to start flaming like an idiot. Its alright to point out a mistake or to have a different opinion but when you start name calling then that turns you into a hairbrained simpleton.
48 • Foxconn "we are working on it" (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 18:34:30 GMT from United States)
http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/foxconn-says-acpi-issues-are-amis-fault-is-having-them-repair-the-code/
49 • OS's vs WM's (by YoMero on 2008-07-28 18:44:31 GMT from United States)
"Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. You have a choice of E16 (enlightenment), EDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, KDE, Openbox, and TWM."
LOL, I didn't know all of the above were 'operating systems'... I thought they were windows managers but now I know better =P
Cheers,
50 • RE: 49, At least you laughed about it. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-07-28 18:58:20 GMT from United States)
Yes is was a funny mistake. One I'm sure Steve will take a lot of ribbing over. At least you didn't insult him because of it. You are right. They are windows managers. LOL.
51 • Why Beranger Sucks (by James P. Collins on 2008-07-28 19:30:36 GMT from United States)
1. Because he is a whiney, petite, frustrated ZERO with nothing better to do than piss and moan about sources.
2 See 1.
What has beranger ever contributed to the FOSS movement besides worthless opinions and cynicism?
Nothing.
I wonder which distro will fail to provide up-to-date sources next week?
Looking forward to ignoring more of beranger's whining then, too.
52 • Foxconn is just plain and simple garbage (by MacLone on 2008-07-28 19:32:55 GMT from Mexico)
I am a computer repair/assembler and have to say Foxconn does nothing intentionally, they do it because they suck...and i mean SUCK! plain and simple...They are even worst than PC-chips and Biostar together. Foxconn must keep doing cables and that's it, no more.
53 • Review: NimbleX 2008 (by Yail on 2008-07-28 19:35:30 GMT from Dominican Republic)
After hearing the good review of NimbleX and the custom CD creation I followed the link to NimbleX's site (http://www.nimblex.net/) using Opera 9.24 only to find the following popup message:
"This site has been found on Opera's blacklist of suspected fraud sites. Exchanging sensitive or confidential information with this site could put you at risk for identity theft and/or financial fraud"
54 • @51 Why beranger sucks (by yoshimitsu on 2008-07-28 19:36:23 GMT from United States)
Agreed, but at least he doesn't end his posts with "keep your d*ck on the ice"
I too anxiously await to find out what distro fails to offer source code next.
55 • @ 53 (by Alan on 2008-07-28 19:43:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
Works ok using Opera 9.20 (running MCN Live cd).
56 • Re. 55. (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 19:54:07 GMT from Canada)
The MCN Live CD is probably 2 years old. Probably, that's why it doesn't have that message.
By the way, MCN is only of the best live CDs I have tried.
57 • RE 51, 54 (by Volore on 2008-07-28 20:31:58 GMT from France)
Guys, you may not agree with everything he says but if you don't understand or don't accept this problem about the GPL and its compliance, report to the sources, you are pathetic...........................
58 • Re 14 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 20:47:53 GMT from United States)
"Maybe do you think this is not important? Sorry to disappoint you but it IS
a problem.
Open source is about sources and a distro which violates
GPL, sorry "Anonymous" but again it's a problem!"
I did not say
whether I think it is important or not. In my opinion, such discussion (er,
flame war material) doesn't belong here. What I did say, however, is that
his constant bitching is getting annoying. It's become a regular
occurrence. Is the DWW forum honestly the proper place to complain about
this crap? I think not. Why not send a message to the FSF's legal team?
That way there might just be a chance for these problems to be fixed instead
of pointless arguing (by people who aren't lawyers, at that) over legal
issues. Let the FSF do their job. Straight from the GPL
FAQ:
-----
"What should I do if I discover a possible violation of the GPL?
You should report it. First, check the facts as best you can. Then tell the publisher or copyright holder of the specific GPL-covered program. If that is the Free Software Foundation, write to <license-violation@gnu.org>. Otherwise, the program's maintainer may be the copyright holder, or else could tell you how to contact the copyright holder, so report it to the maintainer."
-----
Forward all complaints there, because they're the guys who actually want to hear it.
59 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 21:34:03 GMT from France)
"Guys, you may not agree with everything he says but if you don't understand or don't accept this problem about the GPL and its compliance, report to the sources, you are pathetic..........................."
Everything he says ? But he says only ONE thing ! Every DWW ! And on all the forums he find, i guess ... HE is pathetic !!!
Perhaps, it would be better for his mind health to find a lawyer and attack thoses distros... But who cares about all thoses confidentials distros that only distrowatch readers know.. Nowadays, every geek can build his own distro ... and if he wants to share this work... What's the problem ? The day he will be a space tourist, be sure, we will ask about sources !
Even if I agree that GPL is important, it does'nt need Ayathollahs !
60 • Ref# 57 -- by Volore -- RETART (by John Grub on 2008-07-28 21:47:57 GMT from United States)
Maybe we DO understand his position and GPL and don't give a DAMN! How does that grab you!
61 • @59 (by Volore on 2008-07-28 22:12:43 GMT from France)
Ayatollahs? My god! LOL
> "if he wants to share this work... What's the problem ?"
No problem but if you distribute something under the GPL you MUST provide sources! If not, you violate the license!
There is no escape, we can not take just what we like and reject the rest. Either we accept the GPL and we use it or not, and if so, "we will look elsewhere"...
Perhaps this is too difficult to understand? :P
P.S.= When someone asks you to respect something, you treat him also of "Ayatollah"? I would not like to be in a car with you, to take just this example...
62 • GPL (by john frey on 2008-07-28 22:16:17 GMT from Canada)
I for one am interested in hearing about distro's that violate the GPL. You can bet your ass that I will not download, test or bug report a distro that is not in compliance. Anyone else who respects the GPL and what it has done for us will do the same.
You are not required to respect the GPL if you use GPL'd software. So those of you who don't respect it can use it and disrespect it all you want. Although you should know that when you post your disrespect here you sound like an ass. Those who distribute the software ARE required to comply even if they don't respect it.
It is not sufficient to report the violation to the distributor if they then choose to go on violating. Beranger has documented that in the past. Neither is it sufficient to just report it to the copyright holder. I, for one, don't want to be using a distro and find out 3 years down the road that it has been ignoring the license. I certainly hope Beranger is doing both those things.
Making violations of the license public is the quickest way to get compliance if other methods fail.
It is not onerous to comply. The distributor needs the sources to compile their distro so they are in possession of the sources. The distributor has a web server set up to distribute the binaries so they can put the sources their as well. Yes it takes some extra work. Not much compared to creating all the GPL'd software from scratch which is what the distributor would have to do if there was no GPL.
63 • @ 9 KDE 4.1 (by Denizen on 2008-07-28 22:21:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
quote : "(occasionally I can crash plasma on log out) and pretty much on a par with 3.5 functionality-wise (I'm missing a few things like proper ark integration) "
cool, but not really good enough to be 'ready' then eh?
(Im not trolling BTW! - I wish KDE4 was 'ready'. Nowhere near IMO)
64 • Re 62 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 22:30:38 GMT from United States)
"I for one am interested in hearing about distro's that violate the GPL."
Why not start a new site then--LicenseWatch?
65 • Cloud computing (by john frey on 2008-07-28 22:36:15 GMT from Canada)
I share some of the same dislike for cloud computing that others have mentioned, insecurity, network reliance, loss of control.
At the same time I see there could definitely be a place for something like this in the future. A music/news/movie service could be accessed from multiple devices, anywhere, with a consistent interface. Same thing with personal documents and creations. The big advance of the information age is all the information we have on demand. Making it more ubiquitous will be the goal of companies everywhere. It is silly to have all the information in the world at hand and not have access to personally created media. Just having access is not good enough, we need to be able to change and add to the personal media at a whim.
With better and faster net connections something like this will come. There are already many people using computers that have no idea where the local machine ends and the net begins. They don't care, they will be glad to do what they do on any computer or mobile device at any time.
66 • Nimblex (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 23:05:39 GMT from United States)
Sounds like one of the bad distros that we were talking about last week with the sorry install routines, bad documentation etc. It doesn't even splash the login info and it even uses root.
I've first hand seen it toast a mutiboot vm machine putting a fat32 partition on top of a NTFS partition when you've gone to the trouble to set up a place and tell it to use it. It ignores it and does what it wants anyway. Leaving you with a machine that won't get on the net to find any way out. The HD installer shouldn't even be concdered and installer and should've been disabled until it is fixed.
67 • Lightweight distros (by 1369ic on 2008-07-28 23:05:49 GMT from United States)
Re: #37. I use Zenwalk and it's a good choice. Based on Slackware, so it's fast, but it has a lot of extras that make it easy (a control panel, Zenwalk-specific tools, etc.). It uses XFCE and gives you one app for each job. Very nice. It uses netpkg, which is roughly equivalent to apt-get. It's also nice that it's a one-CD download, and not even a full CD.
Vector is another Slack-derived distro with lots of extra tools. It's very fast.
Another light distro I tried recently is AntiX. It's based on Mepis, which is, of course, based on Debian. It has the Mepis utilities, which is a big plus. I'm a Fluxbox and Rox-Filer user, so I was right at home on the desktop, but it might look a little sparse to a newbie.
68 • you need to be GPL compliant and add GNU/Linux to your disto name (by RMS at 2008-07-29 05:15:39 GMT from United States)
you need to be GPL compliant and add GNU/Linux to your disto name
RMS
69 • Font size after 58 (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-07-29 05:44:16 GMT from Pakistan)
Is it just me, or has the font size on this comments list actually decreased after post number 58?
70 • Re: 69 Font Size (by Soloact on 2008-07-29 05:57:34 GMT from United States)
It's because someone missed the /font tag .
71 • KDE 4 (by JohnnyNumberFive on 2008-07-29 06:04:36 GMT from United States)
OpenSUSE did a fine job with KDE 4. If they can do it, then I think that others can. I think that with KDE 4.1, more issues will be attended to and KDE users will be able to go with the flow of the KDE team.
72 • @ 56 (by Alan UK on 2008-07-29 06:34:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree, MCN is one of the best live distros. I'm using MCN Delft which is about a year old I think. Nothing wrong with that - if it works, then I'm happy. My pc was acting a bit funny (Ubuntu 7.04) so I grabed a live cd.
Of all the live distros I've got lying about, I always seem to use MCN live or Slitaz.
Isn't choice wonderful?
73 • @69 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-29 07:18:24 GMT from Canada)
It's because the comments aren't protected at all, they just wind up as one big stream of HTML, so if one comment opens a tag and doesn't close it, it applies to the entire rest of the page. Only the admins can fix it then (they usually do, a few hours later).
74 • RE 35 : I just wanted to know whether it was only a formal problem (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 07:46:17 GMT from France)
("open source is about sources") This is more a worthless slogan than an opinion.
or a matter of respect w/r to the authors of the Open Source: this is an ethical (and perhaps a long term strategical, if authors get fed up their wishes are ignored ) problem
or a matter of preservation (I force my colleagues to download my sources, in case I should disappear).
or of maintenance (bunches of skilled enthusiasts freely detecting and reporting the bugs, if any).
or any rational reason I do not know -and would be happy to know-.
If there are serious reasons, I do not know why an algebrecally_added value go between (a "GNUlinux" distribution) should not be known as non respecting the GPL. If it is just a matter of puns, signalling it is a waste of time.
75 • not a formality (by john frey on 2008-07-29 08:52:41 GMT from Canada)
Well it's a slogan but worthless?
When the GPL v.2 was released the internet was nowhere near what it is today. getting sources was not just a matter of downloading on a broadband connection. Possibly everyone providing sources is too much but that's what the license says. I recall reading that GPL v.3 has done something about easing the requirements but it's too late for me to start looking.
By the way, what's a superficial lapalissade? I'm not surprised your fellow countryman had difficulty understanding what you wrote. It's not his English skills that caused him difficulty;)
76 • suite 79/78/77 was 76 answer (and my keyboard is shaky) (by dbrion
on 2008-07-29 09:17:42 GMT from France)
a truism (Mr de Lapalisse was a valiant soldier, who fought courgeously
until ... 15 minutes before he died and it was sung as "a quarter of an hour
before his death, he was still living") which does not convey any more
information than "OpenSource is about sources" (if it were about rice
cooking, this would be an information).
I am just asking why sources
should be made public, with better reasons than truisms (ethical, technical,
any reasons other than OpenSource is about sources)
Just serious
reasons... (else, some people would be cynical enough to find opening
sources is just a weird tradition, and a vast majority of "linuxers" is just
interested in downloading and knowing whether IT WORKS -this seems a short
term nonanalysis-).
BTW, If you are not happy with my English, just
ask me to post in French , it is faster for me..
77 • RE 76 (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 09:33:32 GMT from
France)
A lapalissade is a truism (Mr de Lapalisse was a hero who fought with great
energy, even 1/4hr before he died and he is sung as "a quarter of an hour
before his death, he was sitill living..." which does not convey any
information in to-days speech..
Neither does "Open Source is about
source " convey any convincing information.
I just was asking if
there were rational reasons to open the source and make it available...
It would not hurt anyone to remind these reasons (I know they exist), as the
vast majority of "linuxers" is just interested in downloading and knowing
whether IT WORKS... this is a very short term nonanalysis.
BTW: if you
are very unhappy with my "English", I would be more comfortable posting in
French ...and in Europe, a majority of people reads his native language,
plus the language of his neighbors.....
78 • RE 74 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 11:36:16 GMT from
France)
No matter your "slogan", "lapalissade", formal or other things.... There is no questions to
ask.
If you distribute something under GPL you must respect GPL and its rules. This
seems obvious... If you don't respect it, don't use it! There is nothing difficult here and no
questions.
It's also like the "respect of text", like if a musician who plays a piece of
Bach, or Beethoven or any other composer you may prefer, doesn't respect the partition and
change the notes or rhythms... No, if he/she wants to play this piece he/her respects it, if
not, he/her plays another piece, or compose him/herself (and here too there are composition
rules to follow...)
Outside the computer there are also "licenses", "rules" to comply.
If you do not want to respect them, do something else ... e.g If you do not want to respect the
highway code, don't drive... There is no question to ask if it's ethical, slogan or something,
you respect.
If you use the GPL you MUST respect the GPL and its rules! Again
there is no questions to ask. Final point!
79 • RE 74 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 12:36:32 GMT from
France)
No matter your "slogan", "lapalissade" or other things....
The GPL has some value, true?
So if you distribute something under GPL you must respect GPL and its rules. This seems
obvious... If you don't respect it, don't use it! There is nothing difficult here and no
questions to ask.
It's also like the "respect of text", like if a musician who plays a
piece of Bach, or Beethoven or any other composer you may prefer, doesn't respect the partition
and change some notes or rhythms... No, if he/she wants to play this piece he/her respects it,
if not, he/her plays another piece, or compose him/herself (and here too there are composition
rules to follow...)
Outside the computer there are also "licenses", "rules" to comply.
If you do not want to respect them, do something else ... e.g If you do not want to respect the
highway code do not drive... There is no question to ask if it's ethical or something, you
respect. That's all.
If you use the GPL you MUST respect the GPL and its rules! No
questions.
(You can try to make it the change, if you can/want... :D)
80 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-29 13:06:31 GMT from United
States)
I can think of a reason why providing sources is important. Suppose some scumbag works for a
company, let's call that hypothetical company Microsoft.
The scumbag takes GPL'd
software and modifies it. He then distributes the binary with source to only one company,
Microsoft. Microsoft includes the modified GPL software in its OS hypothetically called
Windows.
Then someone asks for the source for the scumbag's software that was added to
Windows. Microsoft has no obligation to provide it. The scumbag is no longer distributing his
software. No obligation to provide sources, and all of a sudden GPL'd software is part of a
closed system.
The only way to guarantee the software really is free is to require that
the distributor of binaries always makes the sources available. You cannot impose restrictions
on anyone other than the one distributing the software.
81 • RE #37 Lightweight Linux Distro (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 15:03:58 GMT from Germany)
RE #37
"Hello. I'm looking for a good lightweight Linux distro to run on an older PC (PIII, 128 or 256 MB of RAM). My preference is Debian based using apt-get and as much out of the box multimedia functionality as possible (MP3, Flash, etc.). I'm helping a guy at work with an old PC he got a hold of and he's never used Linux before. I tried the XFCE version of Mint (my favorite), but it was too heavy for this old machine. Any recommendations?"
Try SAM-Linux http://www.sam-linux.org/
and Debris http://debrislinux.org/
82 • Which watch is watched (by Timex on 2008-07-29 15:10:55 GMT from United States)
I'm sorry, I thought this site was named DISTROWATCH and not GPLWATCH !
83 • RE 79 (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 15:13:06 GMT from France)
"The GPL has some value, true? "
Which one?
Whence does this value come from?
From the quality (estimated in an objective way) of the software, or from mere affirmations?
Can you prove it? (Dick Cheeney could!!!)
In the real world, some absurd laws exist, and questioning about their value seems more interesting than following them blindly....
If a law is a good law, I would be glad to know *why*.
Telling one must distibute the sources because it is a matter of preservation,(cf 81), or a matter of respect towards the authors (else, 99.99999% of a distr. would not exist) or *any* rational reason is much more convincing than saying
"A law is a law (is a law)+" or
"OpenSource is about sources"....
As a vast majority is only interested in downloading, CD burning and knowing whether a new distr works, reminding *why* some principles exist (not slogans, but their origin) would not hurt....
84 • re:81 (by susan on 2008-07-29 15:16:04 GMT from United States)
I'd like to see what AntiX could do for you. I've had real good luck with it on older computers, yet it's still as powerful as Mepis. It would seem to meet your wishes, but I don't think I've tested on that little of RAM.
If AnitX is still too heavy, give Puppy a whirl - which can be made to meet your requirements fairly easily I think. It's package management is similar in operation to APT.
85 • Com 84 Antix might work...as RAM is concerned (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 16:00:10 GMT from France)
As qemu, by default, offers 128M RAM, Antix might work (as much as RAM is concerned) . So would Austrumi (perhaps not the latest version -I did not test-, but the 2007 version worked under qemu ... and having the latest GNUlinux is not thaat important for old computers : as RAM increases, the minimalist distributions have too increasing RAM needs. Therefore, perhaps older versions might work ...better, w/r RAM.
86 • RE: The whole GPL debate (by A Distro Maintainer on 2008-07-29 16:27:23 GMT from United States)
Here's my take on the whole GPL issue.
I generally have mixed feelings with regard to the "freedom to tinker" argument. In my opinion, this is vastly overhyped -- at least by those people who say "freedom" is the best reason to use Linux -- most users frankly don't want or need to go into the source code and make modifications to the software. This isn't to say "freedom" is not important; it's just the right argument for most people. It's kind of like telling people to shop locally in spite of Wal-Mart's better selection and lower prices because of corporate greed and worker's rights -- you're trying to sell philosophy over pragmatism.
However, I can't discount the "freedom" of open-source completely, because I happen to be a distro developer (I'm not posting which one, since it's mentioned in this DWW and I don't want to make this a marketing plug, but you can guess). Admittedly, my own motivation is more a pragmatic one. I would gladly use a proprietary operating system if it "just worked" the way I wanted it to, but since none do, I make my own. I started using Linux because it worked better. However, were it not for my freedom to tinker, I could never have done what I did next: Developed it further to better fit my needs.
I've heard it argued that civil rights exist to protect not so much the majority as the minority; I see open source (or "free software," or whatever you call it) the same way. Most users do not modify their software, true, but it is a fallacy to think *all* users are that way. If my original "base" distribution had not provided source, I would never have created my own product; likewise, someone may someday want to use my product to develop their own.
The whole "respect" argument is bunk. Like someone wisely observed earlier, you don't have to *respect* the GPL, any more than you have to respect proprietary EULA's, or real-world laws. (And especially here in the U.S., the latter can be quite difficult at times...) But you'd better *follow* them. Those are the rules of the game, and if you break them, there will be consequences.
I don't force users to download my sources. There's several gigabytes of code there, and frankly that's a lot to download and store, particularly if you don't need it. Honestly I don't think anyone ever *has* downloaded my source, but it's there. And if there's anything missing, I take that seriously (besides, my FTP mirror is basically also my "live backup" -- if my hard disk crashes, or if for whatever reason I need my own code and I can't get to my development machine, at least I can get it from my own public site).
Anyway, having said all that, let's just stop wasting our time with this whole "GPL snitching" debate. Tell whatsitsname's developers to put up the source, and if they don't behave, report their asses to the FSF already and let the professional zealots, and possibly their lawyers, take it from there.
Oh, and you'll probably guess my nomination in response to #37.
87 • Re: Sources (by Alan UK on 2008-07-29 16:39:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
How about creating a site just to host sources? If this is already the case, I'll eat my hard drive...:-)
88 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 17:10:46 GMT from Germany)
If this is already the case, I'll eat my hard drive...:-)
Make sure you backup the data before you do that.
89 • GPL and source code availability (by ezsit on 2008-07-29 18:36:31 GMT from United States)
As far as I know, the sources do not have to be hosted by the distributor of the binaries as long as the binaries are made from existing, accessible source code.
This applies to distributions that do not change the source code and merely "respin" the sources available from a larger distro, such as Ubuntu-based distros like Ultimate and 100% compatible Slackware derived distros like Absolute. The distributors of such distributions merely can direct their users upstream for the sources and that is perfectly fine according to the FSF and the GPL.
90 • 90 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-29 18:45:02 GMT from United States)
That is not correct. Anyone distributing GPL software has to provide sources. It does not have to be done over the internet.
You can only impose restrictions on the one distributing the software. That is why you can't just point to someone else; if that person stops providing the source, the source is no longer available.
91 • RE 90 : I suppose it is a preservation argument. (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 19:05:20 GMT from France)
It would have been meant so that anyone could rebuild his favourite distro, even if its (her) author died/did something else, the distro upstream was sued and some original developpers had given up maintaining (tons of versions of) their applications { the latter point may happen with some applications the originals of which, carefully kept, are easier to be found at the Debian/Gentoo repositories}....
92 • @76 (by john frey on 2008-07-29 20:26:30 GMT from Canada)
Hi dbrion,
Thanks for the description of lapalissade, 15 minutes before my death I should still be living too:) I'm going to add that word to my vocabulary.
You are right there is a benefit to listing the benefits of the GPL beyond ethical or legal reasons. It's good to see we have been getting some of that here. I don't need to be reminded that there are plenty of stupid laws. Following stupid laws just because they are the law is for drones and we are thinking people not drones. N'est pas?
Unfortunately for both of us my French skills are much less than your English skills. I admire your persistence with a language that is not so familiar to you. Sometimes I wonder if you are being confusing on purpose and I know that you can be more clear when you make the effort.
I have to say I am not an Open Source fan and I know little of the OSI and their goals other than they are an attempt to make Free Software more palatable to business. For some reason business and Freedom are not very compatible. The GNU Public License is a Free Software License and so when I answer questions here I am talking about Free Software not Open Source software. Sometimes what I say may apply to both but that is coincidental.
I notice you are specifically asking about Open Source. I don't really have much input regarding that as I learning about that is a waste of time and resources for me. I prefer to talk about free software, copyleft and the GPL.
93 • No subject (by Mandriva on 2008-07-29 21:25:13 GMT from Germany)
Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is out there waiting for you.
It features KDE 4.1 final release.
Grab it while it's hot!
94 • Mandriva 10! (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:28:58 GMT from Canada)
Mandriva is 10! Can't wait for the next 10...
95 • RE 89 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:32:24 GMT from France)
Wrong!
"Section three of the license requires that programs distributed as pre-compiled binaries are [B]accompanied by a copy of the source code, a written offer to distribute the source code via the same mechanism as the pre-compiled binary or the written offer to obtain the source code that you got when you received the pre-compiled binary under the GPL[/B]."
"Many distributors of GPL'ed programs bundle the source code with the executables. An alternative method of satisfying the copyleft is to provide a written offer to provide the source code on a physical medium (such as a CD) upon request. In practice, many GPL'ed programs are distributed over the Internet, and the source code is made available over FTP. For Internet distribution, this complies with the license."
"Conversely, [B]if one distributes copies of the work without abiding by the terms of the GPL (for instance, by keeping the source code secret), he or she can be sued by the original author under copyright law.[/B]"
This "applies only when a person seeks to redistribute the program. One is allowed to make private modified versions, without any obligation to divulge the modifications as long as the modified software is not distributed to anyone else."
So to make a summary, you must provide the sources "via the same mechanism", therefore on the same server that your distrib. You can also "provide the source code on a physical medium (such as a CD)"...
96 • RE 79 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:52:27 GMT from France)
dbrion, yes "some absurd laws exist, and questioning about their value seems more interesting than following them blindly...".
I'm really sorry but the law is the law, nobody can escape (fortunately or unfortunately, as you want) and if you violate the law... you risk some problems, even if it's an "absurd" law.
If you disagree with a law or if you find a law "absurd", perhaps a good thing would be to try to modify / change it... if you can.
> "Can you prove it?"
Why?
I don't make the GPL, I do not take part in its creation but if I distributes e.g a distrib I must abide by it. As a french citizen you don't escape the laws of your country, even if some are absurd! If you violate a law, even absurd, you will be prosecuted...
97 • Foxcon (by poindexter on 2008-07-29 21:55:33 GMT from Australia)
Interesting that a retailer is extolling virtues of Debian on Asus boards
http://www.shoppingsquare.com.au/p_3526__ASUS_M2NMXSEPLUS
98 • Yes I know Mandriva 2009.0 Beta 1 is announced (by Dr. W T Zhu on 2008-07-30 02:38:05 GMT from China)
But even the main mirror server in North America is not ready yet:
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrivalinux/devel/iso/2009.0/beta1/
So, there is a difference between "announced" and "available". As it's inappropriate to direct all download links to Mandriva's top level mirror servers in the Europe, I have to delay putting up the news post until it is generally available worldwide.
99 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 02:49:10 GMT from Canada)
Here Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is available ftp://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/MandrivaLinux/devel/iso/2009.0/beta1/
100 • re93.....Grab it while it's hot! (by Mandriva NOT hot for me! on 2008-07-30 03:11:37 GMT from Australia)
93 • No subject (by Mandriva on 2008-07-29 21:25:13 GMT from Germany)
Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is out there waiting for you.
It features KDE 4.1 final release.
Grab it while it's hot!
Acer 1644 wlmi with intel 915 GM card and LGPhilipsLCD (LP154W01-TLA2) screen has been having serious display issues since Mnd 2008 and still not fixed! Oversized fonts (BIG FONT SYNDROME) is a well documented bug that needs to be fixed before I can see if it is "hot"!!! When Fedora 7, 8 and 9 (Gnome) and openSUSE 10.3/11.0 (i.e. since the new "intel" driver came into use) work perfectly with this same display, I will consider any distro (including Mandriva and Ubuntu/ Debian & derivatives) that does not work as undeserving any praise. Having a working and correctly configured display screen is the minimum I expect from any distro or OS.
Tip for Mandriva and Ubuntu/Debian Xorg Devs -----> Look at the Fedora and openSUSE patches and implement a working solution for your distro!
IMHO, anytime someone says Mandriva or Ubuntu/Debian is "hot', I will say it is just hot air!! :-)
101 • Puppy Linux (by JAGUAR on 2008-07-30 03:27:08 GMT from United States)
Here's the link to the next Alpha release...!
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5/
102 • re 100 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 04:01:08 GMT from Canada)
I have had issues with Fedora 9 (sound did not work, I had to remove pulse and go with alsa) and some other minor stuff. OpenSuse was extremely slow on my machine (especially Yast). On the other hand Mandriva detected and configured everything perfectly and is very snappy. So it is hot for me.
103 • KDE4+openSUSE (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 06:23:23 GMT from Denmark)
I downloaded the KDE4 Live cd with KDE4.1 final which use openSUSE11 and i have to say im extremely happy with how well everything is working! Only ubuntu up to this point have been working flawless on my machine (out of 20 different distros i have been trying) but opensuse11 worked OOTB and is just way more professional looking and the feeling of using KDE4.1 without any problems at all is great!
So the boot order for now is:
1.openSUSE11 with KDE4.1
2.ArchLinux with gnome
104 • RE 96 : law practice East of the Pecos (by dbrion on 2008-07-30 06:40:34 GMT from France)
" As a french citizen you don't escape the laws of your country, even if some are absurd! If you violate a law, even absurd, you will be prosecuted...
"
Quels clichés grandiloquents... et non fondés sur des faits.
For example, 100 French citizen (not superficially writing clichés sheep, people knowing what they were talking about) recently told a French court they had violated DRM laws and wanted to be jailed therefore.....
And the court declared itself incompetent.....
Are you more law-knowing than a French court?
OTH, knowing *why* a law/the GPL is good (or is not) can lead to rational decisions.
105 • Re 102."So it is hot for me"..Well, just because x distro works on your hdwre (by Don't ASSUME!.... on 2008-07-30 07:04:54 GMT from Australia)
....It will be the case with other person's hardware, as my case just proves the point. Lunchpad has a very long list of people with similar issues, and on varying hardware. Xorg has a bug report for my particular screen but looks like their promised fix has not delivered (or has not been implemented).
OpenSuse was extremely slow on my machine (especially Yast)
As I use openSUSE, Yast is a collection of tools/utilities and have not noticed it to be "slow" in launching. Maybe you mean the software utilities? The software utilities have seen a lot of attention in openSUSE 11.0 and are much improved, especially speed wise, and complaining about that is to be ignorant of the current status. I use 10.3 and I am aware of some of the speed enhancements in 11.0 but I will stick with what I have until it is no longer supported (Oct 2009) or try my luck with 11.1 (which will be the base for SLED 11.0 and should be a solid and refined edition).
Since openSUSE and Fedora are cutting edge distros (i.e. they play a big part in Linux development), they do tend to launch with less than perfect status but if one gives them a month or two before installing, most issues will be resolved after updating (that has been my experience with openSUSE 10.2/10.3).
guten Tag
106 • hello inkscape artists out there! (by arno911 on 2008-07-30 08:31:11 GMT from Germany)
sidux is having its annual wallpaper contest. click on my name to see the rules. 10 days left!
b.r.
arno911
107 • re 100 and 105 Mandriva (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 12:34:17 GMT from Germany)
When I said Mandriva is hot I spoke figuratively as if the OS has just been forged. I meant it was fresh. I don't think Mandriva is hot, I think it is really really cool.
Why when someone says something nice about one distro or another there is always someone very smart, much smarter than you've ever been, telling you that this or that distro is better? If OpenSuse and Fedora work better for you on your hardware that means they are better and if Mandriva works better for me on my hardware that's just an exception.
108 • No subject (by capricornus on 2008-07-30 13:00:33 GMT from Belgium)
ASUS M2N-MX-SE-PLUS
the only MB I ever tried to install that refused to enter into BIOS and that did terrible things when I tried to run some distro on it. I send it back.
109 • Re:98 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 13:18:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
More than likely a problem with mirrors themselves rather than a combination of Mandriva's poor attitude towards working with the mirror maintainers and lack of patience. They do the exact same when it comes to final releases.
/sarcasm
110 • Qu 109 Could you give facts of (by dbrion on 2008-07-30 15:32:05 GMT from France)
"Mandriva's poor attitude towards working with the mirror maintainers"
(written mails showing their 'poor attitude', photos....)
Could you also
*prove*
" They do the exact same when it comes to final releases" (any one can tell anything about xxxx's big sins, zzz going to bankrupcy for poor economical model (a year after, it gets ridiculous)....
Facts and proofs would not deserve sarcasms, Monsieur l'Ânon0....
111 • @100 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-30 15:50:00 GMT from Canada)
No, here's a tip for you: you're the only person reporting this problem. So please report it correctly: open a bug report at http://qa.mandriva.com/ , with full details - including screenshots, X.org logs, the DPI reported by the KDE font configuration tool and by xdpyinfo, and the physical size of your screen - and we will investigate it. Trolling through other distributions' packages and applying patches at random to see if they happen to fix some vague problem reported in the wrong place is not a sensible way to develop a distribution. Report the problem correctly, and it will be addressed correctly.
If you've already filed a bug, apologies - please give me the URL.
112 • Re:110 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 16:02:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
What the hell are you smoking? Seriously what is all this about:
"(any one can tell anything about xxxx's big sins, zzz going to bankrupcy for poor economical model (a year after, it gets ridiculous)...."
113 • RE 112 Excellent Rothmans.... (by D brion on 2008-07-30 16:41:28 GMT from France)
"What the hell are you smoking? Seriously what is all this about:
"
And I refer to
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070326&mode=67
post 24
quote
":24 • Open letter (by Anon on 2007-03-26 13:29:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
(..)"
Bancilhon should be questioning his management, asking why are we not good enough, whay are we not the best? But no, he demonstrates the Mandriva management's inabilty to manage,"
It was very fashionable to bash without many arguments the anti PR, unmanaged, poorly uploading its mirrors... Seems to have become a repetitive, unconvincing task for Ânons....
And, if instead of finding serious proofs (that would be innovating) , you ask "what did you drink", you will be answered "cool Badoit".... o Monsieur l'Ânon.
114 • Re:113 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 18:01:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
Uh-huh, and?
Seriously, if I were to take the fact that
You are from France; and
you are trying to counter an argument against Mandriva, a French company
does that automatically entitle me to make the assumption that you are a Mandriva fanboy?
Here's some friendly advice, you might find people more receptive to your opinion when you don't spout prejudicial statements about their character. Looking at previous comments it seems that you, sorry a person signing their comments "dbrion", have a habit of upsetting people here. Therefore I think I will be doing the sensible think and not acknowledging the any comments made by "dbrion" in the future.
That is all I have to say on the matter.
115 • re Dbrion (by masher23 on 2008-07-30 19:05:46 GMT from Australia)
why dont you go to french sites and bore them with your complaining and winging instead of comming to dww to complain i think enough people are totally sick of you.
116 • RE 114, 115 (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-30 20:40:17 GMT from France)
Hey, I am not always agree with him, sometimes he seems a little "special"... but why this intransigence? Everyone has the right to express himself, regardless what he has to say or his opinion ... even if it does not correspond to yours or if you hate him... ;-)
Souffrez messieurs, mesdames, que nous nous exprimions même si nous sommes en désaccord avec vous et si nous vous faisons chier. (mes excuses pour la vulgarité) :-D
117 • Question for Adam of Mandriva... (by wam on 2008-07-30 23:45:21 GMT from United States)
So far so good on your KDE 4.1 Beta 1......... Adam can i ask you a question?...... Im sure its been asked before, but why dont you have the default kernel that looks at least 2 gigs of ram without having to download it when the OS is installed. The default kernel only sees 800 megs of my 2 gigs of ram. 99% of other distros ive tried already see it. I know the live cd would be much faster also if it seen all of the ram. Thanks.
118 • re 117 (by I'm not Adam on 2008-07-31 01:55:42 GMT from Canada)
Installing from the live CD is not what you want. The live CD is for evaluation purposes. It is good to check if your harware will be properly detected in case you install on the hard drive.
If you want to do a nice, solid installation you want to use the DVD (or three CDs) installer. it will detect your 2Gb of RAM without any problems.
119 • @117 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-31 02:15:45 GMT from Canada)
There's a reason for that, but it was actually supposed to change for 2009 - I'll have to look into that, I thought it had been switched already.
118, installing from the live CD is certainly supported and intended to be a decent method, though some people do prefer to install from Free / PWP.
120 • re 111..."Upstream X.org git master now has a better fix for the issue" (by Promises meant to be broken on 2008-07-31 03:36:44 GMT from Australia)
111 • @100 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-30 15:50:00 GMT from Canada)
No, here's a tip for you: you're the only person reporting this problem. So please report it correctly: open a bug report at http://qa.mandriva.com/ , with full details - including screenshots, X.org logs, the DPI reported by the KDE font configuration tool and by xdpyinfo, and the physical size of your screen - and we will investigate it. Trolling through other distributions' packages and applying patches at random to see if they happen to fix some vague problem reported in the wrong place is not a sensible way to develop a distribution. Report the problem correctly, and it will be addressed correctly.
I am sure I am NOT the only one reporting this problem - 100%!!! You are in denial!
The problem (on the hardware that has issues) with Mandriva is that the setup greeter window will stop/discourage any normal (non-technical) user from ever seeing what is beyond the barrier of the GIANT FONTS, where only one or two words a readable.
If you've already filed a bug, apologies - please give me the URL.
I don't need to do that as there are bug reports all over the place (and this issue was certainly disscussed on Mandriva Forums when 2008 came out!), and on varying hardware.
And now I will remind you of what you promised to do about 4 months ago:
144 • @133 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-03-26 19:34:17 GMT from Canada)
Upstream X.org git master now has a better fix for the issue (instead of simply doing a sanity check and throwing away 'bad' EDID data, it spots when a unit error like this is the problem and does the appropriate unit conversion). git commit is http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commit.... I have proposed it to our X.org maintainer for the MDV package.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080324&mode=67
I am still waiting for the "better fix", Adam! :-)
121 • @ Dick Cheney (by blah on 2008-07-31 06:09:42 GMT from United States)
You might want to loosen your tin foil hat, I believe it's restricting blood flow to your brain. When the blood flow has returned to your brain please read the license and try to understand its terms or, better yet, consult with a decent copyright lawyer preferably before you shoot him in a "hunting accident" but afterwards in the hospital might work as well.
122 • Bye (by Vinze on 2008-07-31 06:57:52 GMT from Netherlands)
Sight.... I am tired of the comment section. Al this wining and bullxxxx is a waist of time. There are better things in life to put my energie on.
123 • KDE 4.1 (by FYI on 2008-07-31 10:04:01 GMT from Australia)
Past, present and future
While KDE 4.1 aims at being the first release suitable for early adopting users, some features you are used to in KDE 3.5 are not implemented yet. The KDE team is working on those and strives to make them available in one of the next releases. While there is no guarantee that every single feature from KDE 3.5 will be implemented, KDE 4.1 already provides a powerful and feature-rich working environment.
Note that some options in the UI have moved to a place in the context of the data they manipulate, so make sure you have a closer look before you report anything missing in action.
KDE 4.1 is a huge step forward in the KDE4 series and hopefully sets the pace for future development. KDE 4.2 can be expected in January 2009.
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.1/
124 • #122 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 13:24:56 GMT from United States)
Unfortunately, I am gettting there myself. I come here to try and get some insight into what the strengths and weaknesses are of the various distros, how to overcome issues, what works best with laptops, etc, etc. Instead it is post after post about bots for certain distros that "shouldn't be" #1, endless ramblings about source files and the GPL, fanboys distro bashing anything that isn't their distro or denying obvious issues with their distro, individuals who seem to come here only to enjoy attacking anyone else over the slightest issue, whining to the point of a request to ban someone because of a tag line on thier comments and on and on.
I am looking for adult discussion and sharing of information. Instead it is like a kiddie room with no rules and too many unruly children. If this comment section was my first introduction to Linux I would never have made the change. It would be very difficult for people to come away with a good opinion of Linux or its community after reading the childish rantings here.
Obviously this only applies to a percentage of those commenting here, as there are some very good posts that have made the rest worth putting up with, but it seems every month that percentage gets smaller. It seems every geek devoid of people skills comes here to flaunt their foolishness. It is a real shame.
And #1116 said "Everyone has the right to express himself". No they don't. Good manners and respect for others dictates that there are times when the best thing for everyone involved is for you to keep your mouth shut. Look carefully at the line at the bottom of the box to put in a comment. "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." It is there for a reason and is ignored far too often.
This is a very popular site and the first introduction for many to Linux and its community. Wouldn't it makes sense to put forth the best image possible and endeavor to make ourselves look like the "better option" from every standpoint? I think the image of reasoned, mature adults trying to lend a hand and share their knowledge to the uninitiated would project a far better image than what we see going on here from many of the participants.
125 • No subject (by Vinze on 2008-07-31 14:06:55 GMT from Netherlands)
Amen
126 • Re. 124 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 14:10:26 GMT from Canada)
"I am looking for adult discussion and sharing of information."
Sorry, you are in the wrong place. This is not a "for adult only" site, but a Linux live CD is the safest way for you to go to those sites.
"the best thing for everyone involved is ..."
There is no such thing as best for everyone. Best for you may not be good for others and vise-versa.
"Look carefully at the line at the bottom of the box to put in a comment"
Did you?????
127 • REF# 124 (by John Grub on 2008-07-31 14:26:01 GMT from United States)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Endless drivel about GPL and other nonsense !!!
I come to DW to hear about latest distros and NOT nonsense hot air.
128 • RE: 127 (by Harris Milton on 2008-07-31 15:25:53 GMT from United States)
You are correct sir. This has become a FLAME forum in many recent editions. Lots of GPL B.S. this time and very little Distro-Watching and commenting. The next time the flame might be micro, mini and usb linux wars. Then more Ubuntu trashing followed by high praises for Windows Vista vs Linux? Then closed source vs. open source. Followed again by the future GPL 4, a hot new Flame session I'm sure.
129 • #126 (by RC on 2008-07-31 15:33:34 GMT from United States)
I wondered who would be the first to prove my point about unruly children with no people skills and a complete lack of respect for others. Congratulations. You win the prize.
130 • Re. 129 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 16:14:04 GMT from Canada)
Better keep the prize down there to yourself.
131 • Re: #129 Stop feeding and #5 Atheros N wireless drivers (by awong on 2008-07-31 17:16:59 GMT from Canada)
Just focus on the important distro discussions and filter out the rest - oh, and stop feeding the trolls.
RE: #5 Apparently, support for Atheros N wireless devices will be available in the Linux kernel itself; no need to download drivers (from the mailist re:ath9k drivers). :)
132 • @120 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-31 17:24:39 GMT from Canada)
Ah, I thought it was a different issue you were talking about. But it's true to say I haven't seen any further report of it since then, apart from you.
And sorry, but you *do* need to file a bug report. Otherwise, this is exactly what happens: memories are faulty things and the signal gets lost. Bug reports are necessary precisely to avoid that.
133 • 121 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-31 17:42:16 GMT from United States)
I must be hitting the big time now. Someone posting a hateful, incoherent comment aimed at me!
Nothing I wrote about the requirements of the GPL are new. If you have followed, say, the Mepis or Zenwalk case, you know what the GPL requires. Do an MSN search and for "Mepis GPL" or "Zenwalk GPL" and see what comes up.
As for saying discussion of GPL violations being off limits, that makes no sense. You may not be interested, but no topic will be interesting to everyone. GPL violations are clearly relevant. Yes, Beranger writes with a bit of intensity. If Ladislav feels the tone is not right, he can ban such comments. But just because someone is not personally interested in GPL issues is no reason to prohibit such discussion.
134 • Mandriva 2009 beta 1: great pre-release (by killer1987 on 2008-07-31 18:17:21 GMT from Italy)
thank you for this great pre-release! everything is working and KDE 4.1 is amazing, i look forward to the stable release!!
bye
Marcello
135 • Absolute(ly unobtainable) and lightweight distros (by DanceMan on 2008-08-01 00:00:26 GMT from Canada)
I've been downloading and trying various lightwieght distros to replace Win 98 on an old Armada laptop (PII 266, 192Mb). I started by trying to download Absolute following its recent listing on DW for the latest release, 12.1.05. I attempted to download that three times, the last time reaching about 2Mb short of full. All were terminated prior to completion, and the server at Ibiblio does not support resume. Tried a DL manager to no better result.
Okay, we'll try the 12.1.04, because it's available from a different source. Same result in two attempts, and again with and without a DL manager, no resume supported.
I even dug out the other computer that's set up to handle torrents. Only 12.1.0 "available" there. No seeders, no results.
During this time I've downloaded about 4 or 5 other distros, without problems. Absolute has now consumed well in excess of 2G of bandwidth without delivering a usable iso, so I'm going to call this one a distro in theory only.
On the subject of lightweight distros in general, I think the term is being used to cover too wide a range of hardware, to the point that the term is not sufficiently useful. What's useable on a P3 with 512Mb of ram won't do for a PII 233 with 128Mb. I think we'd be better served if we could come up with more names to more accurately catagorize the target hardware for the lightweight distros. Anyone with me on this, and any suggestions as to where to draw the lines?
136 • to those GPL cops out there (by Distrowatch vistor 136 on 2008-08-01 00:14:44 GMT from United States)
please stop!!! I thought about visting Distrowatch.com, not GPLwatch.com. This is why many developers are shying away from producing their work using the GPL. IT was an ecellent license, but there too many HATERZ out there that are spreading FUD. Please stop! Now people will be afraid of creating good distros out there because, if their project is succeeding many
a$$holes want the sources.
If you like the GPL so much, please make a new site, GPLwatch.com and leave the good people alone..
137 • re 136 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-01 03:10:38 GMT from Canada)
I haven't seen such a dumb comment in a long time. :)
All Linux distros listed here are under GPL. Nobody forced those distros to go with GPL. They freely chose GPL. So all these distros must obey the rules. They must release the sources. I don't know why you argue something so obvious. The Linux distros that break the GPL should be banned from this website.
138 • -GPL (by Just say no to GPL on 2008-08-01 03:55:48 GMT from United States)
Re 137 You should be banned from this webseite along with your GPL cowgirls !
139 • @135 (by Alan UK on 2008-08-01 06:29:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Using the sport of boxing as a guide, how about "flyweight" for Damn Small Linux/Slitaz/Puppy?
140 • re 138 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-01 08:36:13 GMT from Germany)
Just say no to GPL
Definitely. Tell those Linux distros that have no respect for GPL to say no to GPL. They can definitely use other kernels unencumbered by GPL. Vista's kernel seems to suit them perfectly. It is closed source. They won't have to release the sources.
141 • Qu 136-138 :The GPL can exist without DW .. but the reverse waay? (by dbrion on 2008-08-01 09:06:41 GMT from France)
"
If you like the GPL so much, please make a new site, GPLwatch.com and leave the good people alone.."
Would the "good people" of DWW and the "good site" exist if GPL did not exist?
I suppose the "good people" have greater skills for programming/bug detecting/reporting than the DWW readers (and sometimes, writers)....
For good informative (not of unexplained, unjustified "opinions") sites, just google search "wikipedia + the topic which interest someone"....
142 • Parted Magic 3.0 (by Andy Axnot on 2008-08-01 13:44:13 GMT from United States)
Thanks to Susan for the mini review of Parted Magic 3.0. I agree completely with her conclusions. PM continues to impress, big time. I only wish they would loosen up a bit on their insistence on small size. Another few megabytes and it would be a killer liveCD. But the dev and some supporters really hew to the smaller is better line. I still love it.
Andy
143 • Troll # 137 138 (by john frey on 2008-08-01 13:44:27 GMT from Canada)
Why don't you go complain on Microsoft's site that they are demanding that people pay for their API's and development tools? Paying for the rights to use proprietary development tools and API's is the alternative for programmers who can't meet the requirements of the GPL or other free licenses.
You think it's easier to pay than to provide sources? Chew on that one, troll.
144 • sorry #137 meant #136 (by john frey on 2008-08-01 13:53:37 GMT from Canada)
u no wat i meen
145 • RE 92 You were very kind (by dbrion on 2008-08-01 15:28:14 GMT from France)
Hi John Frey, if you are still here, I found a good link (in good English, messeems) to the song of Knight Jacques de la Palice).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_la_Palice
English wikipedia is very often better than the French one.
You wrote that "For some reason business and Freedom are not very compatible".
I know of one exception:
If one sells numbers (results from computations; instead of selling softs), the way they are computed (and the ability to explain that the algorithms are not too wrong/badly implemented) are more important than the softwares in themselves, and being portable can matter, too (if one changes computers, OS) : more and more people in my work insist on getting the sources (if they do not know on which OS they will install them) or on giving the sources (if they want their softs to be maintained, in case of emergency, while they are in holidays/dead/ doing something else).
146 • Flyweight @ 139 (by DanceMan on 2008-08-01 19:34:57 GMT from Canada)
Great suggestion, Alan. Your boxing metaphors opens up even more possibilites: middleweight, bantamweight. But flyweight would be perfect for the 50Mb DSL.
There does need to be more differentiation. When Caitlyn was writing about Puppy on her laptops, one was a 1G Celeron and another had an even higher spec. I tended to think of lightweight distros more in the range of 500Mhz and lower, but I'm not suggesting that anyone is right or wrong here, just that we need more catagories. And I think available ram is often more important than cpu speed, some motherboards and laptops having rather low ram limits. Or cost and availability of old ram limiting a given machine to whatever is already in it.
147 • @ Dick Cheney post 133 re 80 (by meh on 2008-08-02 03:08:48 GMT from United States)
The scumbag takes GPL'd software and modifies it. He then distributes the binary with source to only one company, Microsoft. Microsoft includes the modified GPL software in its OS hypothetically called Windows.
Kindly point out how this is done without violating the license terms of the GPL, knowing full well that linking to object code that exists under a non-compatible license makes that code legally non-distributable in all countries that have signed onto the Berne Convention.
But hey, don't let me stop you from educating yourself :)
148 • re 147 (by hem on 2008-08-02 06:37:51 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
149 • @148 (by General Lie-Zation on 2008-08-02 07:42:38 GMT from Australia)
You can't blame 137... You can't put all Americans in the same bucket... although we like to do so when we see one behaving in some way we don't approve but they're not all alike!
150 • @ 146 (by Alan UK on 2008-08-02 10:41:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Not too many catagories though, or we'll end up just like the boxing world:
everything from fly, bantam, light, middle, light heavyweight etc., etc.
I reasoned that the term "flyweight" more accurately separates the 50Mb distros from the Gnome/KDE distros that offer xfce etc.,just as an alternative desktop.
I've used Xubuntu in the past. I use Ubuntu now. The difference between the two
isn't as great as between, for example, Xubuntu and Slitaz.
I agree with you about the system requirements. My other pc is an 800 Mhz AMD Duron 256 Mb ram. Originally running windows 98se. Personally, this is about as minimal as I get.
Like you, I suspect small ram rather than cpu speed is a major consideration. To that I'd add small onboard graphics too.
151 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 14:26:54 GMT from United States)
> Kindly point out how this is done without violating the license terms of the GPL
My reference is to distributing the code along with Windows the same way as you can distribute Adobe's Flash Player in a Linux distribution. It is not necessary to engage in 'linking to object code'. Or, if you wish, just throw away the Windows reference altogether as it was only an example, and not a very important part of the example. Say the scumbag takes Ubuntu and makes his own modifications, then distributes it to one company, Microsoft. Microsoft could then distribute the 'improved Ubuntu' in binary form with no requirement to distribute the source.
> But hey, don't let me stop you from educating yourself
No source code, the software is not free. As I've noted above, the only way to guarantee there is source code is to force the distributor to provide it.
Please direct future inquiries to the FSF. I assure you, they know what they are doing, and they know why that clause is in the GPL.
152 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-08-02 14:28:12 GMT from United States)
151 was from me.
153 • REF# 152 (by NOGPL on 2008-08-02 14:50:26 GMT from United States)
Of course it was. Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE there you are in the middle!
154 • RE 153 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 15:57:49 GMT from France)
> Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE "
If you consider that there are nonsense in the GPL, then try to change it, modify the 'nonsenses'... But for now it applies as it is!
If it does not suit you, then again try to make it changing, if you can, or go look elsewhere.
And stop playing the provocateurs and attacking people...
155 • @154 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 22:45:40 GMT from United States)
The nonsense from the GPL is trying to be removed by revisions like the GPLv3 in which it relaxes things a bit. The fact that the license is restrictive is what many people out there resent.
The GPL by nature is a good license. What is bad is that people take it and refuse to give back to it like it requires ;( That is why the GPLcops accuse Distros of noncopliance. This is what makes the GPL look bad, now who is worse the GPLcops or the RIAA? Yes DRM is bad, but your approach of putting restrictions on software is also bad!
156 • 155 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-08-02 23:58:08 GMT from United States)
I gave an explanation about the terms of the GPL and why a certain set of restrictions in it exists. Do you also post strange comments about Wikipedia, the dictionary, and Roget's Thesaurus?
As for the rest of your comment, it helps to have a point.
"who is worse the GPLcops or the RIAA"
"Yes DRM is bad, but your approach of putting restrictions on software is also bad"
"What is bad is that people take it and refuse to give back to it like it requires"
"The GPL by nature is a good license"
Were you just jotting down random, contradictory phrases, or were you trying to say something? What 'restrictions' have I put on anything? The developers that use the GPL are the ones that did the restricting. Who are these GPL cops of whom you speak? Yet you say the GPL is a good license and it is bad when individuals don't comply with it.
Huh?
157 • RE 153 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-03 00:39:30 GMT from France)
> Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE "
If you consider that there are nonsense in the GPL, then try to change it, modify the 'nonsenses'... But for now it applies as it is!
If it does not suit you, then again try to make it changing, if you can, or go look elsewhere.
And stop playing the provocateurs and attacking people...
158 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-03 04:07:53 GMT from Canada)
I love free software
I love linux
I love the rapid innovation
this is because of the gpl -
159 • RE 33 High kernel numbers are not a synonym of quality (cf RH) (by dbrion on 2008-08-03 14:27:20 GMT from France)
RE 33
Merci tout d'abord de poster en Français : ça me permet de répondre très vite, et sans coller de dépression nerveuse à des âmes trop sensibles (qui, soit dit en passant, feraient bien de faire marcher leur cervelle une ou deux fois par an)...
J'ai mis du temps à te répondre, car j'étais un peu ennuyé avec des orages, et il est difficile de trouver des cartes de rechange pour des portables dans des villes de province françaises en Aout, peut être plus que dans des pays du tiers monde... ce qui me ramène à un de tes points (du fait que tu dépends de fournisseurs, tu es incité à acheter du nouveau, si j'ai bien compris -à part la pression de tes clients-). Il existe des gens qui arrivent très bien à vivre et utiliser du vieux matériel, quelque soit le pays, et ce talent a de plus en plus tendance à être méprisé ("mon portemonnaie est plus grand que tes talents", devise du "Power User" autoproclamé, celui qui sait où est le bouton M/A).
Un exemple de ce mépris peut être trouvé dans http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080602&mode=67, où, alors que quelqu'un avait trouvé un moyen d'installer O'Suse (posts 1,76, confirmés par d'autres auteurs -79 et 113-), la réponse typique était :
EX. "81 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-03 13:38:46 GMT from United States)
#1: You can't expect any full-fledged Linux desktop to run well w/ 256MB RAM. You'd be better off with XFCE or DSL for example. Memory is dirt cheap, get at least 1GB."
Quand au caractère interessant de numéros de noyaux récents, on peut se référer à http://cycle-gap.blogspot.com/2008/07/linux-kernel-development-stats-from.html
où un des points de cette retranscription était "There is no good way to test the kernel except to run it. The hundreds of permutations of devices and interactions makes it impossible to test it comprehensively." Ceci, ajouté au fait que des tests empiriques n'ont pas grande valeur (cf la doc d'Octave), fait douter de la qualité des nouveaux noyaux, développés sous pression de fabricants et d'utilisateurs à courte vue, et non vérifiables.
Cette retranscription donne aussi des infos intéressantes sur les contributions financières des Huns et des (H)autres....Je n'évoquerai pas, par charité, la 8 ième UBU merveille du monde, mais RedHat semble plus intéressant (finance et y détecte des bugs...).
Au fait, RH (dont on accepte d'acheter des services et des logiciels, du fait de sa réputation et de ses talents) a annoncé une nouvelle version cette semaine....et quel est son numèro de noyau?
Bon été, et ne sois pas trop embêté avec des cyclones..
160 • Foxconn BIOS/MB (by . K. Vlastos on 2008-08-04 02:07:47 GMT from United States)
Those who intend boycotting Foxconn should refrain from buying ALL that they manufacture:
With a vertical integration with Apple, they manufacture Ipod Nanos,MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs and iPhones.
They make various oem parts, including MBs for Dell and HP, heatsinks for AMD processors, including PGA/ZIF sockets used by corps like ASUS.
They make cell phones for Motorola, Nokia and Sony Ericsson.
Leadtek is Foxconn.
This is only a partial list of products.
It is notable that the latest Linux kernels "falsify" reality by returning a positive presence of ALL Microsoft OS releases when queried by the BIOS. Since the BIOS reacts to the OS queries with differing responses, small wonder that "Linux" is sometimes difficult to install may give a different install performance in repeated installs on the same box.
Since HP certifies much of their hardware, including computers (all having MBs) for 3 Linux distros, it is unlikely that they instruct Foxconn to make special provisions in their motherboards to accomodate Linux, thus creating a special and separate manufacturing process just for "Linux" boards.
Much easier for the bigots to simply blame everything on "Windoze". Linux competes more directly with Apple and Darwin that it does
Windows.
Number of Comments: 160
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